Who are 'The British Constitution Group' [Archive]

baron von lotsov

16-01-2009, 05:21 AM

Here is the website:

http://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/

Apparently there is a conference advertised on other parts of this site that will take place on the 24th of Jan.

Their website is run by Roger Hayes, so who is he?

Apparently he is ex-UKIP and he became an ex because he was expelled. If you want to know more, he has posted on this UKIP forum under the name of 'Twizzel'.

Here is a thread explaining who he is.

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/british-politics-other-parties/55047-bc-group.html

twizzel is still listed as a BDF member, he just doesn't post as often these days. He was expelled from UKIP.

This conference would almost be worth attending just for the humour value. It will be one of the funniest conferences ever. aarable will give us a write up when he gets back I would guess.

IIRC, David Bourne attended the Weston-Super-Mare "Stop the Lisbon Treaty" meeting, as did Gerrish. I think Bourne was the one who wanted to do a "Jarrow March Mk2" to persuade others to petition the Queen for a Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The contact address and website belong to Roger Hayes, who was the Referendum party candidate in Wallasey in 1997.

John Bingley is a self-proclaimed "constitutional expert", but shares with Ashley Mote the ability to be an expert in a subject that usually requires a Law degree and several years specialist practice, without any indication that he's done the requisite research.

Here are the posts by said man:
http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/search.php?searchid=254892

baron von lotsov

17-01-2009, 05:10 AM

baron von lotsov

18-01-2009, 10:54 AM

baron von lotsov

19-01-2009, 08:55 AM

chris

19-01-2009, 11:10 AM

chris

19-01-2009, 11:11 AM

Oh, just checking the dates of your posts and it seems you do give us time to read:D

I dunno, it must have slipped under my radar.

Ian2day

19-01-2009, 11:51 AM

I expect that they're a group of free thinkers just trying to exert their rights. Why do people have to be soo suspicious of other peoples motives all of the time. Sometimes you habe to believe that others are on the same side as you until proven otherwise.

We should not try to second guess the intentions of someone prepared to take action. If you think that it is not right, maybe you should try to arrange off of the boards with others who think the same as yourself. Sometimes the only way to get the message out to people is to find some way to let them know your feelings about a subject.

Always being negative in public can be very counter productive. Maybe if you have doubts find some others like yourself and try to meet them to discuss it in person. Always communicating via the internet leads I expect to being misscontrued or missunderstood. Remember fear has a way of making us see the worst in others at times.

alternative_answer

19-01-2009, 10:23 PM

[QUOTE=baron von lotsov;741639]I'm not getting very far here, am I?

There is a freeman kind of conference coming up on the 24th of this month hosted by the group, and it has been made a sticky in a section on this forum. I thought you might be interested in a bit of background. Well I was at least, because I'm just the kind of guy who probes things and wants to know who is doing what in the anti-NWO movement. Is there anyone like me still left on here? I bet you didn't even know what the British Constitution Group was in the first place. Well tis the point of the thread. La-la land is the alternative.

There's no one like you Baron!!!!!:o

baron von lotsov

20-01-2009, 02:14 PM

I'm not getting very far here, am I?

There is a freeman kind of conference coming up on the 24th of this month hosted by the group, and it has been made a sticky in a section on this forum. I thought you might be interested in a bit of background. Well I was at least, because I'm just the kind of guy who probes things and wants to know who is doing what in the anti-NWO movement. Is there anyone like me still left on here? I bet you didn't even know what the British Constitution Group was in the first place. Well tis the point of the thread. La-la land is the alternative.

I expect that they're a group of free thinkers just trying to exert their rights. Why do people have to be soo suspicious of other peoples motives all of the time. Sometimes you habe to believe that others are on the same side as you until proven otherwise.

We should not try to second guess the intentions of someone prepared to take action. If you think that it is not right, maybe you should try to arrange off of the boards with others who think the same as yourself. Sometimes the only way to get the message out to people is to find some way to let them know your feelings about a subject.

Always being negative in public can be very counter productive. Maybe if you have doubts find some others like yourself and try to meet them to discuss it in person. Always communicating via the internet leads I expect to being misscontrued or missunderstood. Remember fear has a way of making us see the worst in others at times.

I have chatted to some in that circle. They are ok, and some are good researchers. However, I did bring my qualms up about the freeman business and the reply was they had not personally looked into it very much. Other people seemed to agree with me that it was a scam and so, yes, your first point of call should be with the ones who do what they do.

I know some of the UKIPers that I chat to on that forum as well, and there is a difference of opinion. I kind of hang there in the middle. I take what I see as productive from mainstream UKIP and also look into deeper issues, some of which are valid and others questionable. I'd rather have all of this out in the open, and what some UKIPers say is that Brian Gerrish is a bit off on his own planet a bit. I think the main issue is whether what they regard as more of the 'outlandish claims' actually do the UKIP much good.

However this kind of debate is always open, and that's what I like about the party. You can argue your points and no one has a problem with it. I mean they might have a problem with your argument but not in the least that you have a right to say what you think and argue your corner. This way of doing things just makes us stronger and that is the business of the UKIP-to gain strength in opposition to the EU, such that we finally pull out. The main aim is proceeding with great pace currently. Just the other day the Irish were saying they might wish to leave the Euro.

baron von lotsov

20-01-2009, 11:10 PM

So, is anyone going to this conference? I'd really like to hear about how it goes and what is being said.

baron von lotsov

22-01-2009, 10:40 AM

So I have had to remove the Telletubbies link on this page in case it offended anyone. Now that seems about the only thing that has interested you people.

Weird.

pinkgrapefruit

22-01-2009, 12:42 PM

So, is anyone going to this conference? I'd really like to hear about how it goes and what is being said.

Don't worry Baron, I am going and I assume that there will be plenty of people on this Forum who are going too. I'm sure there will be plenty of posts on it come Saturday night.
I am really looking forward to hearing what they have to say, I've even sacrificed a trip to Old Trafford for it.

The conference is to convey a plan for a Lawful Rebellion against the Treasonous Government of this Country.

Something, I for one WANT. Rather than talking about it, these guys are DOING something. Isn't that what a lot of threads on this Forum call for but end up being pushed down the ranks by a load of pointless threads on relationships or Ronaldo or Michael fucking Jackson.

I read the responses you made to your own posts and I understand where you are coming from. I believe I have made some valid posts on this forum too and get very few responses. Probably because I haven't asked questions relating to sex or has-been pop stars.
I read a thread the other day called “This board sucks” by chrisgeo, sometimes that is exactly how I feel about it.
I mean, here is an example of some recent threads;

Do women really like submissive men?
Are open relationships or Fuck Friends the answer?
Would you forgive a cheating partner?
Sorry Madman... I haven’t wasted my time on these and quite frankly couldn’t care less. If you have any relationship issues like I’m sure many people have then talk about it somewhere else please.

Some more; Ee 'eck, it's cold!
Boycott shitty films!
Deal or no Deal.
Did I Pull The Trigger?
Stig is revealed.
Batten down the hatches.
The CTRL + V game!
Boycotting the premier league over the Kaka deal?(This one I replied to, I was going to rant then but changed my mind and put down a banal comment instead.)

And whats with the Happy Birthday threads?

Someone asks the questions; Should we stop making idiotic sex threads? Not necessarily... but do them somewhere else please.

And, Can we have a new catergory on the forum ? I would like that and can we call it; Crap that has fuck all to do anything of any meaning.

Just as I’m about to finish we get this; Who is BOB? What the Fuck is that all about?

Rant timed out but NOT over :mad:

baron von lotsov

22-01-2009, 01:23 PM

I usually only start threads when I have found something out these days on here. In my book, it's all about information, because I'm serious about taking this system on. The last thread was exactly the same, except that it got trolled to pieces. You see, these idiots are not even ignoring the NWO, they are actually arguing for it. This is mainly because they have not taken the trouble to establish what the plan is, and so they think that doing what the plan advocates is an act of rebellion. We certainly should have a bin for all of those distraction threads.

godspeed

22-01-2009, 03:44 PM

your free not to read them...i just skip things that have no meaning to what im looking for....but mostly i find what i need to know next...thats why im travelling to this conference as im sure i'll hear much more by word of mouth than what we hear on-line...
im not going there to learn to be a rebel....ive been one since the day i was born and the struggle carries on and on and on ...

pinkgrapefruit

22-01-2009, 06:17 PM

your free not to read them...

That's right, I am... but how do I know it's an irrelevant thread until I've read it?

The point I am making is that although there are a lot of good threads, they get bumped down the order by these threads I'm talking about which are then kept on the front page by people continually making posts on them.

baron von lotsov

23-01-2009, 12:34 PM

Anyway, since I have been chatting to the UKIP there appears to be something going on. This guy was expelled from the UKIP, but then the UKIP have expelled a lot of people who have tried to infiltrate it or put it's name into disrepute. Still though the UKIP soldiers on, and the people in it these days seem to be pretty sensible people with a real mission, and I respect that.

So what I suspect is there is more than meets the eye here, and I have not had both sides of the story. I have stuck up for Brian Gerrish because he did a top job exposing Common Purpose. Now most of the UKIP are aware of Common Purpose style euro-infiltration and even the ones that are the most sceptical are really just saying, "where is the hard evidence?” They are not discounting it, but just saying that if the UKIP are to take it seriously they need rock solid facts to do anything about it, rather than rumour. That’s a practical approach that I also support.

Brian Gerrish has said the UKIP are just like the other three main parties regarding Europe, in that they are infiltrated. I'm not so certain this is fair because the UKIP are so used to it that they have become the best at spotting this sort of thing, and so infiltrators get a really difficult time. Indeed the UKIP laugh at them. Maybe one or two who are going to this could ask about the UKIP, because it remains a mystery to me. I'd rather everyone get on with everyone else and focus on the real fight, but like I say, there is probably more to this than meets the eye.

baron von lotsov

24-01-2009, 12:50 AM

?

(Just bumping this thread past the bullshit.)

baron von lotsov

24-01-2009, 10:47 AM

A free paper for you lot. Apart from the Freeman business, I think it is absolutely brilliant and gets right to the truth.

http://www.ukcolumn.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ukcolumnjan09full_fin_web.pdf

baron von lotsov

24-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Do you people still have no idea?

They did a conference today, did anyone go?

pinkgrapefruit

24-01-2009, 10:14 PM

Do you people still have no idea?

They did a conference today, did anyone go?

Just got back... Really good stuff. Far, far too much to say on this post but I wish I took more people with me.

Brian Gerrish was fantastic, lots of new information.

hagbard_celine

25-01-2009, 12:43 PM

Just got back... Really good stuff. Far, far too much to say on this post but I wish I took more people with me.

Brian Gerrish was fantastic, lots of new information.

I wish I could have gone.:( A friend of mine went and enjoyed it very much.

alternative_answer

25-01-2009, 12:53 PM

Just got back... Really good stuff. Far, far too much to say on this post but I wish I took more people with me.

Brian Gerrish was fantastic, lots of new information.

Fantastic conference, sooooo glad I went, was having doubts about travelling from B'mouth, got up a 6am and didn't get back until 10pm, but well worth it. Will be at the next one May 2nd I think they said?

le_ribault

25-01-2009, 01:06 PM

nice to see the people of Stoke turn out in force...did anyone hear Gerrish's comment on m15 agents being in the audience...?

jojo

25-01-2009, 01:07 PM

nice to see the people of Stoke turn out in force...did anyone hear Gerrish's comment on m15 agents being in the audience...?

yes, it was class! :D and the under cover coppers too!

you from stoke then?

le_ribault

25-01-2009, 01:12 PM

yes, it was class! :D and the under cover coppers too!

you from stoke then?

hi..i live in a little village just north of Stoke so great to see an event like this on my doorstep...would have been good to go for a bevvy afterwards but all the pubs were boarded up :-(

jojo

25-01-2009, 01:15 PM

i posted this on another thread.

Well it was brilliant!!!! ive been left insipired to really do something about the criminal frauds who run this country!

hi to dondaz, pleasuredome, monkfish, infinate one, ustain, dreamweaver! great meeting all you guys again!!! Sorry i didnt make it to the pub afterwards... baby sitting issues arose and we had to shoot off

John Bingly was 1st up and gave us all a good grounding on magnacarta and the british constitution and just what a law says politicion's and the monarchy are here for... ie to uphold the peoples rights!!!

Then a bloke (dont know name.. sorry) showed us how many letters that have been sent to the queen questioning her about the above (facts) were passed along, ignored and fobbed off.

Albert Burgess was a star. An ex special copper who has spent most of his life supporting the rights of people. He knows the law and is on a mission to prosecute the people who illigally took us into the european commission in 1972 for treason, a offense which is still punishable by hanging. ie duglas hurd, margret thatcher and ted heath and every politicion, judge, policeman who fobs him off and tries to pass the buck!

John Harris was a brilliant, passionate speaker and spoke about how a human being is owned by the government from the moment the birth certificate is signed and every form we "apply" and fill in is used against us to take away our rights of common law. How the language of law i9s used against us and how the government and police forces are nothing but corporations as shown in dun and bradstreet and the currency they traid in is "us"

Mike Robinson and another (sorry dont know his name) spoke about the history of money and debt and how it is nothing but illusion and how paper money is worthless. They spoke about the orchestrated plan to bring down the world ecconomy.

Brian Garrish was a dude! he spoke about common purpose, neurolinguistic programming of the population and the police/military and how the PTB are breaking up familys and how more and more people are having their kids taken away from them for no reason.

finally, Roger Hayes, The man who organised the confrence spoke about how we can change this country. Using lawful resistance and buildng numbers of people to fight this war.

There is another one on the 02.05.09 (venue not arranged yet) so keep that date free and please please come along and listen to how your human rights are being violated and how the "legal" rites statutes are not LAWfull. And just how you can make a difference and turn the vial tide of filth that run this country and in turn rule the world.

im sure someone more elequent than i will give a better synopsis, but i hope this has given you the gist.

jojo

John harris didnt really speak about freeman on the land stuff. but he was one of the most honest, passionate speakers i have ever listened too. He brought a tear to many an eye at the end of his talk.

and from what i have learned of the freeman concept, it is most valid and certainly not bullshit. The PTB inpliment Civil law aginst the population and the freeman concept tells us how we can counteract it using Common law.Its not bullshit, its just facts that we have not been told about.

jojo

25-01-2009, 01:16 PM

hi..i live in a little village just north of Stoke so great to see an event like this on my doorstep...would have been good to go for a bevvy afterwards but all the pubs were boarded up :-(

really?? so do i :)
not the white star line pub, titanic brewerys own. ;)

hagbard_celine

25-01-2009, 01:22 PM

i posted this on another thread.

John harris didnt really speak about freeman on the land stuff. but he was one of the most honest, passionate speakers i have ever listened too. He brought a tear to many an eye at the end of his talk.

and from what i have learned of the freeman concept, it is most valid and certainly not bullshit. The PTB inpliment Civil law aginst the population and the freeman concept tells us how we can counteract it using Common law.Its not bullshit, its just facts that we have not been told about.

Ustane spoke very highly of John Harris. I'd like to see it. Were there cameras there? Maybe it will be released onto DVD and even YouTube.:)

Stoke has a special place in my heart because I saw David live there for the first time; in August 2002. He spoke at a hall at the university near the station.

jojo

25-01-2009, 01:26 PM

Ustane spoke very highly of John Harris. I'd like to see it. Were there cameras there? Maybe it will be released onto DVD and even YouTube.:)

Stoke has a special place in my heart because I saw David live there for the first time; in August 2002. He spoke at a hall at the university near the station.

yes, he was brilliant haggers! say hi to ustane from me :) we lost her for a bit at the end :o but got her to the station in time eventually.

there were a few people filming (dondaz for one) so i hope that there will be a dvd or youtube done.

hagbard_celine

25-01-2009, 01:29 PM

yes, he was brilliant haggers! say hi to ustane from me :) we lost her for a bit at the end :o but got her to the station in time eventually.

there were a few people filming (dondaz for one) so i hope that there will be a dvd or youtube done.

Brilliant!:) I'd love to see it:cool:.

And thanks for keeping Ustane company yesterday:), and for giving her a lift. Stoke's a bit of a confusing place (but a very nice place; I'll always asociate it with David because of what I said above.).

jojo

25-01-2009, 01:33 PM

Brilliant!:) I'd love to see it:cool:.

And thanks for keeping Ustane company yesterday:), and for giving her a lift. Stoke's a bit of a confusing place (but a very nice place; I'll always asociate it with David because of what I said above.).

unfortuantly, its a total shit hole now. (like most industrial towns in the uk) borded up shops and pubs, huge expanses of waste land which is just being left. knocked down and closed factories and business. houses being torn down and borded up and nothing being built in their place. Its a shadow of its former glory days. :(

baron von lotsov

25-01-2009, 02:10 PM

i posted this on another thread.

Mike Robinson and another (sorry dont know his name) spoke about the history of money and debt and how it is nothing but illusion and how paper money is worthless. They spoke about the orchestrated plan to bring down the world ecconomy.

Yes, I have had some chats with Mike Robinson and he is well clued up. I don't agree the Freeman business is the right strategy of resistance but I fully concur with his diagnosis of the state of Britain and the EU etc. It seems some people are on the Freeman tip and others are general researchers, and I think Mike Robinson is one of the latter.

Looking in the current issue of the Column there is another example of a Freeman at a Magistrates Court, and again no result. My thesis is that the real power resides with the people, and it is the people that make the law and not the law that makes the people.

le_ribault

25-01-2009, 05:38 PM

yes, it was class! :D and the under cover coppers too!

you from stoke then?

any idea who Gerrish was referring to...dont think coppers would have the intelligence to understand him so who were the m15 shills in the audience that he recognised?

alternative_answer

25-01-2009, 07:43 PM

Mary Croft has not become a Free man and she has been able to do amazing things using the concept.

http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/freedom/mary_croft.pdf

jojo

25-01-2009, 08:33 PM

any idea who Gerrish was referring to...dont think coppers would have the intelligence to understand him so who were the m15 shills in the audience that he recognised?

i dont know, and to be honest i dont care who they were. i suspect they felt a bit like shit at the end of it all. i hope it pricked there concious and broke through the programing they have obviously been subjected too.

jojo

25-01-2009, 08:35 PM

Mary Croft has not become a Free man and she has been able to do amazing things using the concept.

http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/freedom/mary_croft.pdf

yes, exactly. the principles are there for everyone, and can be used accordingly to uphold ones right to lawful rights.

travels

26-01-2009, 04:50 AM

hagbard_celine

28-01-2009, 01:27 PM

unfortuantly, its a total shit hole now. (like most industrial towns in the uk) borded up shops and pubs, huge expanses of waste land which is just being left. knocked down and closed factories and business. houses being torn down and borded up and nothing being built in their place. Its a shadow of its former glory days. :(

That's a shame:(. I might think the same if I lived there.

I was only there 3 days and saw David there, so for me it has connotations with him.

baron von lotsov

28-01-2009, 01:40 PM

For more info on the freeman movement check this conference...it's a long one but it'll change your life..again..!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6019992706449012651&ei=jDB9Sf37I4nojgKdudi8CQ&q=freeman+conference

(Or just go to Google video and type 'freeman conference')

There is another one in Derby on the 31st January (Sat)...check thinkfreeforums.org for more info. You will have to sign up to view the forums but they are a valuable resource.

As someone who has just got into the philosophy (not a movement as I see it as that would require momentum, and a philosophy doesn't lose any power by being still, seen?) I have to say it's been a welcome way of thinking after so many months of paranoia! It's basically a way of analysing how the system works and empowering yourself lawfully and responsibly by knowing how much power you really hold as a sovereign being. The 'technology' is in its infancy so if you're worried about infiltration get down there quick and absorb what you can. I won't plead the case of the organisers because they do that admirably in the video. Hope you give it a chance it's a good direction...but a voluntary one

Pax

Get real man!

The law is a stitch-up. Have you ever had any experience of it? I have, and I know they break the law openly in court. I protested and the judge told me to "shut up". Indeed, he was going so red with anger that I will never forget it. He knew I was right and could not bear to be exposed. My briefs were working for the other side as well, and I had to defend myself in a two-week crown court trial! Fuckers, the lot of them.

Just stay out of court rooms, one way or another they will fuck you. If you try and take them on they will just take all your money and then do something illegal.

monkfish

28-01-2009, 05:22 PM

any idea who Gerrish was referring to...dont think coppers would have the intelligence to understand him so who were the m15 shills in the audience that he recognised?
I asume he was on about david shaylor...who was in the audiance..aparantly. I didnt see him though.
They did film the event and will be doing a dvd

rjl9332

28-01-2009, 08:01 PM

Get real man!

The law is a stitch-up. Have you ever had any experience of it? I have, and I know they break the law openly in court. I protested and the judge told me to "shut up". Indeed, he was going so red with anger that I will never forget it. He knew I was right and could not bear to be exposed. My briefs were working for the other side as well, and I had to defend myself in a two-week crown court trial! Fuckers, the lot of them.

Just stay out of court rooms, one way or another they will fuck you. If you try and take them on they will just take all your money and then do something illegal.

Stay out of court rooms - couldn't agree more. They are completely corporate; a place of business, and you had better know that before unconditionally accepting their offers to attend their office and settle a debt.

The idea of being a freeman needs not be read on a peice of paper; it starts with you knowing that you are free, and don't need anyone to tell you that. You agree to give away your freedom at every turn with this tyrannical defacto court system and the saying 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' is a joke when you're covering codified UCC law - ever checked out how you're contracting under maritime admiralty law when you register a birth by submitting your application? People need to understand that the most powerful defence you can have is simply knowing who you are - not your bogus 'Person' defacto legal entity, but a living soul in an animated vessel, with unlimited freedom and rights and NO requirement to be told just what they are. Even common law has its drawbacks; there is ultimately only an agreement between you and the natural power of the universe which acts exactly as it always has - above us. There is no authority between you and it; only an illusion of one which you are agreeing to each day.

baron von lotsov

29-01-2009, 11:44 AM

Look, the issue I have with Freeman business is that it contains a bit of truth and a bit of bullshit. Indeed, it is just like when Icke tells us about the NWO and then goes on to say that everything is an illusion.

I totally agree that you should not give your freedoms away and that you should stand up for yourself and the weak, that get wrongly treated by a more powerful and unaccountable system. What I do not agree with is the thing this is being mixed with, and that is ancient law, a lot of which has been superseded by more modern law.

It is wrong to say that any law remains indefinitely valid, since we have a parliament that is supposed to enact the will of the people and that it is supposed to rule supreme, meaning any law can be changed in this country. The bottom line is that such loopholes do not exist, or if they do they are there for a purpose. For example, there have been financial loopholes that have favoured corporations and their offshore banking and tax avoidance schemes. They are there because the system wants them there. Apart from that I have not seem any loopholes that have existed for much time before they get legislated out.

The risk of course, is that when this Freeman stuff gets proved wrong, so will the idea that people should stick up for themselves and protect their rights and powers and so on. Like I say, if you think otherwise then show me an actual Freeman case that has worked. I have not seen a single one.

pinkgrapefruit

29-01-2009, 12:57 PM

I totally agree that you should not give your freedoms away and that you should stand up for yourself and the weak, that get wrongly treated by a more powerful and unaccountable system. What I do not agree with is the thing this is being mixed with, and that is ancient law, a lot of which has been superseded by more modern law.

It is wrong to say that any law remains indefinitely valid, since we have a parliament that is supposed to enact the will of the people and that it is supposed to rule supreme, meaning any law can be changed in this country.

Just because a Law is 'Ancient' does not mean it is invalid. If our 'Ancient' Law says that a Law/Statute cannot be changed without the will of the people, then that is the LAW. Surely, changing this particular aspect of our Ancient Law means to say that Laws/Statutes can be foisted upon us without our consent... And who would consent to that?

Yes, Parliament is supposed to enact the will of the people but they are NOT doing this, are they? Any Law can be changed or introduced with the will of the people but I don't remember being asked for my consent, have you been asked?

Which of our 'Ancient' Laws do you believe has been or should be superceded by a more modern (improved?)law?

baron von lotsov

29-01-2009, 01:17 PM

pinkgrapefruit

29-01-2009, 01:44 PM

The treason act was one that got trashed fairly recently.

By the way, the only way you will convince me that any of this Freeman law is valid is by seeing a case won in the High Court or Court of Appeal. That's when it counts, because if one case is won then it's a ticket for everyone else to win as well, because it becomes case law. Just one example-surely that is not asking too much?

'Trashed'... Doesn't sound like an improvement to me!

Although I agree with what you say on the 'Freeman' issue, I too would like to see a court case to prove the point.

Without being able to back up what I say at this moment, I believe there are loads of cases already being fought using the 'Freeman Law'. We're not going to hear about it.

Look at 'Mr Loophole' Nick FREEMAN. He fights loads of cases using Loopholes, you never get to hear what these loopholes actually are. Maybe he is (mis)using 'Freeman Rights' to get these Footballers and Supermodels off of speeding fines etc. BUT if the full story of how he did it got out then... GAME OVER.

baron von lotsov

29-01-2009, 02:09 PM

travels

29-01-2009, 11:40 PM

Get real man!

The law is a stitch-up. Have you ever had any experience of it? I have, and I know they break the law openly in court. I protested and the judge told me to "shut up". Indeed, he was going so red with anger that I will never forget it. He knew I was right and could not bear to be exposed. My briefs were working for the other side as well, and I had to defend myself in a two-week crown court trial! Fuckers, the lot of them.

Just stay out of court rooms, one way or another they will fuck you. If you try and take them on they will just take all your money and then do something illegal.

Sigh...he didn't check the links did he? Someone on the David Icke forum who shot me down before checking the facts...ok deep breath, smile, he knows not what he does...

Hi baron couldn't agree more, but your argument is not the whole picture, in fact it backs me up completely: You entered the court as a non-bonded slave, or a 'pro se' in the eyes of the court. therefore you needed a 'prose-cutor' to conduct affairs on your behalf. You are chattel until you are bonded and will be treated as such. However, should you enter the court bonded then you enter on an equal footing with the judge and no one else need get involved. After all, as a bonded party you have the power to liquidate the bond of the judge...reckon he might be a bit more gentle now? What's a bond? Check the info I don't spoon-feed.

Oh I've had experience with courts mate. But I've learned from it. I am real. And so is this.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe-4PBvdBk

That's a real live link have a look.

travels

30-01-2009, 12:02 AM

If anyone were in a position to use the law to get our country out of the EU it would have been Stewart Wheeler.

http://www.stuartwheeler.co.uk/

It's a bit of a sad story, but I respect the courage he had to take them on. To say they have got this business sown up is an under statement, they have belts and braces, and laws that are so vague that they should not have even been passed in the first place.

I think the right way to go is the political route. I think the UK Column could prove to be a formidable Trojan Horse. Some chap posted on the site he alone had shifted 30 000 copies of the current issue. It could go much bigger than that even if it breaks through on the national newspaper market.

Who cares about the EU?! It'll be a corporation only, that will use statutory law to enforce it's policy. If you claim the right (follow a simple(ish) legal procedure) never to contract with them they can't do anything to you. Ever. Provided you don't sign up to the corporation by taking part in the 2011 census of course...

baron von lotsov

30-01-2009, 12:34 PM

Oh I've had experience with courts mate. But I've learned from it. I am real. And so is this.

Did you win?

baron von lotsov

30-01-2009, 12:35 PM

Who cares about the EU?! It'll be a corporation only, that will use statutory law to enforce it's policy. If you claim the right (follow a simple(ish) legal procedure) never to contract with them they can't do anything to you. Ever. Provided you don't sign up to the corporation by taking part in the 2011 census of course...

It sounds like snake oil you are selling here.

hagbard_celine

30-01-2009, 07:27 PM

Did anyone else pick up that J'accuse pamphlet? It's all about immigration, a subject I've discussed many times here.

baron von lotsov

14-02-2009, 04:55 PM

Hi chaps.

You might be interested in this thread:

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/anti-eu-groups/56928-british-constitutional-group-conference-report.html

It goes into some depth about the law and what Common Law actually is, and takes apart some of the myths about the Freeman movement. Notice we have Twizzel back on the forum, which, as you might recall, was the organiser of the recent conference.

I hope you find it interesting. Indeed, there is a mixed message here. The conference was a great success, but this whole thing could fall flat on its face if, at some later date, the europhiles call the card that says this is crap. The effect upon the small-minded will be to write off the whole argument against the EU, and a lot of people really worry about this.

Aardvark is a very intelligent and experienced chap who is well worth listening to. He is on our side, but speaks about the practical side of it. Remember-we are all in this together. Let's help each other to get a political shift in this country, eventually resulting in dropping out of the EU. I see a lot of optimism here, I used to think it was an impossibility, but things are moving in our direction. Stay tuned.

baron von lotsov

14-02-2009, 06:27 PM

Is this too much to handle for some of you people?

baron von lotsov

14-02-2009, 08:15 PM

baron von lotsov

14-02-2009, 08:28 PM

informationx

15-02-2009, 03:26 AM

hey_jude

15-02-2009, 05:09 AM

Read this thread as well. You might wonder what is going on.

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/anti-eu-groups/56956-case-treason.html

Don't be the sheep you people accuse others of. Start to think! Is this Freeman stuff another disinfo plot? It looks very much like that to me. So

What do you think?

Baron what is your problem? You post and then expect an immediate response.
What is the hurry surely you'd EXPECT us to read/view your post before responding! tut tut
I and my daughter attended the Conference and we both found it interesting and informative.

Being a Freeman is not for everyone.

Anyway, the whole point is NOT that the process can work in court. As you so rightly point out the Courts are Criminal and that does not include the chap in the dock!
The point, I feel anyway, is that it emphasises and demonstrates how much we have been deceived in regards the law and if that drives home the desire in the masses to DO something, and if there is an organisation that hears us, and can direct us and in some respects lead us by encouraging us to lead ourselves. Then that can only be good.
Incedently I had a good chat with John Bingley and despite what you say he is a very intelligent and articulate man, who has a healthy respect for the law and loves his country. Qualified or not, David Icke left school without formal qualifications and he has proved himself a match for many a scholar!

baron von lotsov

15-02-2009, 05:33 AM

*
"Baron what is your problem? You post and then expect an immediate response. "

A response is often too much to ask for on here unless it is of the 'girl meets boy' kind of thread.

"What is the hurry surely you'd EXPECT us to read/view your post before responding! tut tut

I and my daughter attended the Conference and we both found it interesting and informative."

Brian Gerrish has a very good point in my opinion, I'm not dismissing it wholesale, quite the contrary in fact, I'm trying to help it.

"Being a Freeman is not for everyone.

Anyway, the whole point is NOT that the process can work in court."

It's sold on that basis, and so it is a case of faulty goods at least and possibly something more sinister.

" As you so rightly point out the Courts are Criminal and that does not include the chap in the dock!
The point, I feel anyway, is that it emphasises and demonstrates how much we have been deceived in regards the law and if that drives home the desire in the masses to DO something, and if there is an organisation that hears us, and can direct us and in some respects lead us by encouraging us to lead ourselves. Then that can only be good. "

Yes, courts are bent often, but not always. Actually there are a lot more bent legal systems in other countries, even our EU neighbours like Italy for example.

"Incedently I had a good chat with John Bingley and despite what you say he is a very intelligent and articulate man, who has a healthy respect for the law and loves his country. Qualified or not, David Icke left school without formal qualifications and he has proved himself a match for many a scholar!"

I don't know him but I have chatted to other people writing for the UK Column, and not all of them subscribe to Freeman business.

Someone attacked the notion that Common Purpose was dodgy there though, and said the Freeman law was invalid. The latter point he made was totally valid, but the former point I don’t accept. This is how they can rubbish perfectly legitimate information, by lumping it in with information that is provably incorrect. It’s a classic trick and Icke has been a victim many a time. I don’t want to see these people go down that road, and so I'm taking a close interest. This is the purpose of this thread, to consult and hopefully for people to add what they know.

baron von lotsov

15-02-2009, 07:27 PM

"Baron what is your problem? You post and then expect an immediate response. "

Maybe in 2010 I'll get a response. It takes some time for the neural firing sequences in the minds of those on here to finish calculating and produce a coherent thought. In the meantime it's tities and beer. Well we could talk about the weather I suppose.

rogerhayes

06-05-2009, 01:00 AM

The second British Constitution Group conference is on the 13th June in LONDON - if you want to play a part in stopping the NWO - you should attend. visit the web site www.thebcgroup.org.uk

lol baron every post I read of yours already has responses by you saying how we don't give a fuck...Do you actually give us any time to read your posts:D

I would like to join a group like that but that particular one is a bit too far away...

I'm not very interested in the 'freeman of the land stuff,' I think a lot of it is bollocks. Yet I'd love to learn real legit stuff about my right etc...If he does one in London perhaps, I might attend...

rogerhayes

06-05-2009, 01:06 AM

Hi chaps.

Twizzle is most definitely not Roger Hayes and Roger Hayes is not twizzle.

You might be interested in this thread:

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/anti-eu-groups/56928-british-constitutional-group-conference-report.html

It goes into some depth about the law and what Common Law actually is, and takes apart some of the myths about the Freeman movement. Notice we have Twizzel back on the forum, which, as you might recall, was the organiser of the recent conference.

I hope you find it interesting. Indeed, there is a mixed message here. The conference was a great success, but this whole thing could fall flat on its face if, at some later date, the europhiles call the card that says this is crap. The effect upon the small-minded will be to write off the whole argument against the EU, and a lot of people really worry about this.

Aardvark is a very intelligent and experienced chap who is well worth listening to. He is on our side, but speaks about the practical side of it. Remember-we are all in this together. Let's help each other to get a political shift in this country, eventually resulting in dropping out of the EU. I see a lot of optimism here, I used to think it was an impossibility, but things are moving in our direction. Stay tuned.

Twizzle is most definitely not Roger Hayes and Roger Hayes is not twizzle.

hey_jude

06-05-2009, 10:38 AM

lol baron every post I read of yours already has responses by you saying how we don't give a fuck...Do you actually give us any time to read your posts:D

I would like to join a group like that but that particular one is a bit too far away...

"I'm not very interested in the freeman of the land stuff",
I think a lot of it is bollocks. Yet I'd love to learn real legit stuff about my right etc...If he does one in London perhaps, I might attend...

hi chris, I do hope you will attend the next British Constitution Group Conference in London, June 13th www.thebcgroup.org.uk

...as you say you're not interested in the Freeman stuff, and that's fine because the whole conference wasn't built around Freeman-on-the-land stuff despite what others have said on here!
...it's all about the state of this nation and the impending EU dictatorship. It's about our rights as human beings, our corrupt law courts and judicial systems, national & multi-national corporations that HURT people for profit and our health freedoms such as the impending manditory vaccinations, gmo food, flu scares et cetera...

...if you care to spend time there I think you'll enjoy it and learn something too, as I did. I took my daughter to Stoke with me and she admitted she only came along as she worried about her mum travelling to Stoke-on-Trent on her own. Well, my daughter thought she'd have a nap through the conference ...how wrong was she ...she is as passionate about the British Constitution Group as I am now and is busy rounding up work colleagues to attend in London.

...what harm can it do to attend the conference? go and listen and hear from the horses mouth, so to speak, why listen to Baron - who did not attend the last conference and only relies on hear-say from anonymous posters on other forums instead of attending and forming his own opinions!

baron von lotsov

06-05-2009, 03:26 PM

Twizzle is most definitely not Roger Hayes and Roger Hayes is not twizzle.

I just picked that up from the British Democracy Forum. Thanks for the clarification. Do you know who twizzle is by the way?

baron von lotsov

06-05-2009, 03:41 PM

hi chris, I do hope you will attend the next British Constitution Group Conference in London, June 13th www.thebcgroup.org.uk

...as you say you're not interested in the Freeman stuff, and that's fine because the whole conference wasn't built around Freeman-on-the-land stuff despite what others have said on here!

It's not what others have said, it is simply because John Harris spoke at the last one and I don't trust this freeman business and I know that at least some of it is badly wrong, other bits don't have any reference to real law and so can't be proved either way, since it is often more difficult to prove something does not exist than proving it does. With vague references they give and refusal to answer direct questions then it smells of fraud.

Obviously there are those that would love to label the BCG as bunch of crackpots and it only takes one person to do that. The UKIP had to learn the hard way when they had Kilroy-Silk and Ashley Mote amongst them. I just don't want to see such a promising organisation opening itself up to ridicule, as this is a deadly serious business. The freeman scam is doing the rounds at the moment and is being strongly promoted and of course the classic trap is to think we will have a freeman on because it is popular. It’s popular because someone wants it to be, not because it has any merit.

hey_jude

06-05-2009, 05:59 PM

It's not what others have said, it is simply because John Harris spoke at the last one and I don't trust this freeman business and I know that at least some of it is badly wrong, other bits don't have any reference to real law and so can't be proved either way, since it is often more difficult to prove something does not exist than proving it does. With vague references they give and refusal to answer direct questions then it smells of fraud.

Obviously there are those that would love to label the BCG as bunch of crackpots and it only takes one person to do that. The UKIP had to learn the hard way when they had Kilroy-Silk and Ashley Mote amongst them. I just don't want to see such a promising organisation opening itself up to ridicule, as this is a deadly serious business. The freeman scam is doing the rounds at the moment and is being strongly promoted and of course the classic trap is to think we will have a freeman on because it is popular. It’s popular because someone wants it to be, not because it has any merit.

Hi Baron, do I detect a little movement from you that this organization is "promising"?
Most of your previous posts, which I always enjoy btw, are dead-set against it.

I do appreciate the excellent point of only one crackpot to spoil it. But having said that - which crackpot would you be referring to? John Harris, Rob Menard or some freeman on this site?
I have had experience in dealing with solicitors when I worked at a sols office in the 80s and in banking in the late 90s into this century and I can tell you they do not get anywhere with me on the telephone or in person anymore - I tell them "go and read the LAW" - "is this a legal matter or lawful matter" - Baron they can't get off the phone quick enough! They are caught in the headlights by this lawful stance... this was supposed to be BEYOND us mere mortals.
Why am I not in court for refusing to buy a TV license and non-payment of my Credit Card Bills? I also have 4 debts/bills which I have side-stepped now using Common Law and the creditors are quite bewildered by it all. I am in disscussion with HMRC concerning a letter proving I have to pay income tax.

The more I learn about the freeman movement the more I like it and I think the only reason there is some mystery is because if they [freemen] made it an easy walk you would have joe bloggs with his dogs using the freeman philosophy to hurt people and it's actually all about "live and let live".

I actually like Kilroy-Silk and Ashley Mote and don't think they are crackpots at all. How can you call someone a crackpot for saying what they truly believe.
Afterall, we are discussing this on a forum belonging to a man who says some humans are actually reptiles! David Icke a crackpot - never!
Perhaps you could call people misguided or misunderstood or even foolish but a crackpot is extreme, don't you think?

baron von lotsov

06-05-2009, 06:39 PM

Hi Baron, do I detect a little movement from you that this organization is "promising"?
Most of your previous posts, which I always enjoy btw, are dead-set against it.

I do appreciate the excellent point of only one crackpot to spoil it. But having said that - which crackpot would you be referring to? John Harris, Rob Menard or some freeman on this site?
I have had experience in dealing with solicitors when I worked at a sols office in the 80s and in banking in the late 90s into this century and I can tell you they do not get anywhere with me on the telephone or in person anymore - I tell them "go and read the LAW" - "is this a legal matter or lawful matter" - Baron they can't get off the phone quick enough! They are caught in the headlights by this lawful stance... this was supposed to be BEYOND us mere mortals.
Why am I not in court for refusing to buy a TV license and non-payment of my Credit Card Bills? I also have 4 debts/bills which I have side-stepped now using Common Law and the creditors are quite bewildered by it all. I am in disscussion with HMRC concerning a letter proving I have to pay income tax.

The more I learn about the freeman movement the more I like it and I think the only reason there is some mystery is because if they [freemen] made it an easy walk you would have joe bloggs with his dogs using the freeman philosophy to hurt people and it's actually all about "live and let live".

I actually like Kilroy-Silk and Ashley Mote and don't think they are crackpots at all. How can you call someone a crackpot for saying what they truly believe.
Afterall, we are discussing this on a forum belonging to a man who says some humans are actually reptiles! David Icke a crackpot - never!
Perhaps you could call people misguided or misunderstood or even foolish but a crackpot is extreme, don't you think?

Kilroy-silk was a Labour politician and a university lecturer, and while doing that he did some thesis on Marxism. He was most likely brought in to destroy the UKIP, but they got rid of him in the nick of time. Ashley mote was convicted of fraud shortly after being elected and caused the party untold damage, which is being used even today by its enemies.

Menard is some former stand up comedian and makes no sense what so ever as I have debated with him on this forum, or more accurately tried to debate with him and given up. John Harris does not convince me in the slightest, and I twigged this as he did that thing with Buckingham Palace and nothing came of it, it was purely a stunt to promote himself with.

As for solicitors and government people, yes, they are afraid of people who know the law; often shit scared of them because they do so much that is bent. I have elicited exactly the same response as you when quoting standard law at them, and my guess is they are so poorly educated that they would not know the difference. Regarding your non-payment of taxes & debts or whatever advantages you say you have gained, well you might get a nasty surprise one day and a summons to court. Often what happens is something like that lingers for ages until the issue gets as high as someone with proper legal training, and then you are done for.

All you are doing is delaying that process, but if you continue it will eventually cost you dearly, since legal costs are astronomical. You won't like that and my worry is that people will make the association between freeman and euroscepticism and reject the entire lot. I’m working hard to help the UKIP turn into a formidable force and honesty is the best policy. Everything needs to be exact as there are many enemies out there waiting to exploit you. If this BCG really takes off and gets big then you will be attacked, indeed you are guaranteed to be, so don't let them give you enough rope to hang yourselves with.

I do support the aims of the group and agree with nearly everything except the freeman business and other aspects of law that have been mentioned in the past that sort of link to it. I would have gone to the last conference if it had not been about freeman issues, since I noticed at least two on the bill speaking about it. I’m not sure of the line-up of speakers at this one but if it is good I’ll try and make it along. London is easier for me than Stoke; since I would have had to hire a hotel in order to make it to the last one meaning the total cost would have been well over £100. Mind you I do need to get out a bit more so a trip to London might be a good thing. I’m going off to Malta shortly afterwards so I could catch a plane from London after the show, which is a cheaper option than my local airport.

cruise4

07-05-2009, 02:33 PM

If there are 'natural laws of the universe' perhaps it's the corporate perversion that we now choose to buy into that stops God destroying these assholes. Whilst we buy into their fictions perhaps God just says 'More to learn'. Perhaps the freeman concept matters in individuals heads rather than in courts.

A different but potentially valid alternative view of the freeman issue... maybe the truth movement in general.

BTW. God to me is just shorthand for whatever name you give cosmic force or whatever.

hagbard_celine

07-05-2009, 03:06 PM

baron von lotsov

07-05-2009, 06:39 PM

From the link:

Speakers will be announced shortly. The focus of the event will be very different to the last one, so please make sure you bring as many people along as you can, and get your tickets early!

We are now asking you to join us by becoming members of the British Constitution Group. As you will see in the coming days, there will much more content on the new site, and with your support, the content will continue to grow. You will find reference material, material for you to print and distribute, a members only area, and the opportunity to become your local "first point of contact."

Hmm, that leaves me a little in the dark as to what will be different about it. Are there any speakers that are confirmed that can be mentioned, as this is the usual way to assess what the subject matter will be? I did actually mention it to NO2ID that it would be a good thing for Phil to speak and they said they would get in touch. I look forward to seeing who they are.

hey_jude

07-05-2009, 07:44 PM

Kilroy-silk was a Labour politician and a university lecturer, and while doing that he did some thesis on Marxism. He was most likely brought in to destroy the UKIP, but they got rid of him in the nick of time. Ashley mote was convicted of fraud shortly after being elected and caused the party untold damage, which is being used even today by its enemies.

Menard is some former stand up comedian and makes no sense what so ever as I have debated with him on this forum, or more accurately tried to debate with him and given up. John Harris does not convince me in the slightest, and I twigged this as he did that thing with Buckingham Palace and nothing came of it, it was purely a stunt to promote himself with.

As for solicitors and government people, yes, they are afraid of people who know the law; often shit scared of them because they do so much that is bent. I have elicited exactly the same response as you when quoting standard law at them, and my guess is they are so poorly educated that they would not know the difference. Regarding your non-payment of taxes & debts or whatever advantages you say you have gained, well you might get a nasty surprise one day and a summons to court. Often what happens is something like that lingers for ages until the issue gets as high as someone with proper legal training, and then you are done for.

All you are doing is delaying that process, but if you continue it will eventually cost you dearly, since legal costs are astronomical. You won't like that and my worry is that people will make the association between freeman and euroscepticism and reject the entire lot. I’m working hard to help the UKIP turn into a formidable force and honesty is the best policy. Everything needs to be exact as there are many enemies out there waiting to exploit you. If this BCG really takes off and gets big then you will be attacked, indeed you are guaranteed to be, so don't let them give you enough rope to hang yourselves with.

I do support the aims of the group and agree with nearly everything except the freeman business and other aspects of law that have been mentioned in the past that sort of link to it. I would have gone to the last conference if it had not been about freeman issues, since I noticed at least two on the bill speaking about it. I’m not sure of the line-up of speakers at this one but if it is good I’ll try and make it along. London is easier for me than Stoke; since I would have had to hire a hotel in order to make it to the last one meaning the total cost would have been well over £100. Mind you I do need to get out a bit more so a trip to London might be a good thing. I’m going off to Malta shortly afterwards so I could catch a plane from London after the show, which is a cheaper option than my local airport.

Please don't give me a lecture on Kilroy-silk Baron I'm 48 and have seen a good deal of his work over the years and I don't mean on BBC lying ONE!

As for Ashley Mote ...well, I believe he thinks outside the box and despite what appears to be fraud lets be clear about his claiming benefits and the somewhat emotive term 'fraud' calls to the mind ...because in the whole scheme of things "he just ripped-off the state" and before you go off on one - half the unemployed on the dole and on sick-benefit are doing just that - right now!
I don't care what he did as I don't pay income tax and national insurance and I hate that I have to pay any tax/vat. He didn't steal from me and if I could pay him for the sense he writes I would, gladly!

As far as this... Regarding your non-payment of taxes & debts or whatever advantages you say you have gained, well you might get a nasty surprise one day and a summons to court. Often what happens is something like that lingers for ages until the issue gets as high as someone with proper legal training, and then you are done for.

Baron you should really get a job writing Swine-Flu bulletins - your scare mongering tactics are going to waste on here!

If Bastardcard had sent me the "true copy" of the alledged binding contract, I asked them for, I would be back to paying the debt.
They sent me an empty envelope and now tell me 'I have a copy' and they won't be sending another?
Baron ...they don't have one! Because I didn't sign one! And they know, I know they don't have one! I told them to prepare a file for court and bring the original with them. They've now sent the case to 3 different debt agencies.

Let me give you an example: My friend couldn't remember when she got her credit card and wrote a similar letter to mine ...she now has a full & true copy in her hands and basically she is stuck and has to pay up. So if it's that simple, where is mine Baron?
I clearly stated I was happy to pay when I had examined the true copy of the agreement, so why the fuss, why not just send it and shut me up?

Rob Menard is a gifted comedian and I agree, sometimes I have no idea what he is talking about!
I believe John Harris is really talking about - Gypsies and travellers if you like - I have friends who are descendant from Gypsy stock and they confirm this.
I remember when police would turn up to these sites after some trouble or other and the police would not arrest anyone and the travellers could build what they like where they wanted to and courts had a real hard time dealing with them. Usually because they had 2 first names and only a family name no fixed abode [no joindor] and of course they were not registered on the "system" so your court system [as it is not mine] could not demand anything of them. They [gypsies or travellers] would/will quote Common Law and the courts are not equiped to deal with people who are outside their jurisdiction [legal not lawful].
If the gypsy or traveller had murdered, raped or committed fraud [stealing etc] he would then be tried under Common Law with or without being registered anywhere. It is not that difficult to understand the concept of this freedom, people think "oh great so we have bands of lawless gypsies roaming the uk" NO, that is not the answer to our woes at all - but they could teach us a thing or two about Common Law. There are Common Land Rights and tonnes of other rights we don't know about because the rich want the land and plenty for themselves.

So, am I storing up trouble for myself by delaying the inevitable? - I don't really believe I am.
I do not believe I am meant to be a slave like you - I work for myself and I provide for my children and I have no understanding of why I HAVE to contribute to a corrupt and unjust system. I hand out info to people for free - I leaflet for free - I promote natural health products for free - I talk to people about their health and advise them for free - I contribute to a society centred around freedom - not for profit - if I gain a commission Great I'm pleased and it helps me and my children, but I won't stop because no one is paying me, I want people to be free also and healthy too.

I'm using my own printer/inks for leaflets and not one person pays me to do this ...I do it because this 'thing' is bigger and more important than all of us!

baron von lotsov

07-05-2009, 09:16 PM

You seem to be acting a bit on the defensive. I was not attacking you, I was simply saying be careful with organisations like Barclaycard.

Aside from 'who said what' the whole concept of freeman stuff is bent. We have a society where if you do some work you agree on a payment and you get paid. That's fair, and likewise if you agree to borrow money at a certain interest rate then you should honour that, and if you purchase something you pay the asking price.

I have had people swindle me in the past and it is not nice. If you want to fight the immoral nature of parts of the system you will fail if you support an even more immoral system that exploits loopholes and the like. Imagine if you had done a month's work for a company and they sprang a loophole on you and told you to go and get stuffed, how would that make you feel? OK they say that they gave your wages to Oxfam maybe! That would not impress you, would it?

hey_jude

07-05-2009, 11:16 PM

Hi Baron ...I'm not acting defensive I am being defensive. Your first remarks about 'the freeman concept' purport it bunkum! I thoroughly disagree. I truly believe we are on to something big here and it deserves further testing.

The piece you write about 'imagine working for a month and then your employer does not pay you, using some loophole in the law'.
I have news for you ...didn't I say I worked in banking - I resigned as a whistleblower and the absolute and utter fraud I uncovered was neatly swept under the carpet. You bet I'm pissed off about losing my position, my own desk and then forced to sit facing a wall ...being demoted for honesty! The bank in question wriggled out of paying my severance pay, holiday pay, not to mention pain and suffering when I became ill because of the way they treated me - guess what method they used ...corporate law!!!

My union backed me all the way ...until the union renewal became an issue and the deal was off ...you could hear the sound of ranks closing, loud and clear!
You will never know what it feels like to have dealings with a fraud & investigation officer of a large corporate bank and watch his face literally beam when he hears your story and leaps into righteous action. After his report hit the CEOs desk he was ordered not to talk to me again and he was seconded within the month. That bank had more than just my diligent work it took all my expectations and my sanity and stamped its filthy corporate boots all over them.

I now run my own business from home and I have a few debtors myself ...as I said fairly recently [before I understood fiat money fully] to hagbard_celine I think.
I would have employed baliffs to collect the money owed but not now, my views have changed [notice how I suggest I was wrong] and I don't give credit anymore.

Personally I have not a bad thought about you Baron ...you always write good solid stuff, but sometimes you appear to me... to be so set in your thinking you resemble a rigid lorry unable to bend or articulate from the chosen path which is where we differ I suppose as I feel I am a more flexible thinker ;)

baron von lotsov

08-05-2009, 05:11 PM

OK well first I have never worked in a bank and I agree with you on what they are like, I mean yes they are utter fascists, and life experiences with banks totally agree with your synopsis. You did the right thing to go self-employed, and I have always favoured self-employment since I have never worked for any of these fascists in my entire life. I twigged something was wrong when I was still at school, and my ridged adherence to logic and reason saved my arse!

However, this is a strong belief of mine that has served me well in the fight against fascism, and that is to avoid the temptation to do the same kind of thing as they do. Honesty is such a powerful force that it can crush fascism, and there is not really anything else which has the power to do that.

I'm trying to help the UKIP win the EU elections in June, that is my thing at the moment and the application of honesty and sincerity is making huge waves on the political scene. Some national journalist poked his nose into party political business and went down to some by-election and said how nice it was to meet the UKIP people, commenting that they were very polite and well mannered. I can't remember the exact words used but it impressed him.

This is the way to do it, don't copy the fascists and try and be more fascist than they are, but set yourself aside from it and have your own standards. What happens here is that the dirty deeds of the liars and cheats seems all the more poignant when compared to the honesty of a party that has the strength to tell the truth. That's our secret weapon really and fingers crossed we should be getting the thumbs up from the electorate in June. Remember the EU makes 75% of our laws, and this has to stop!

hey_jude

09-05-2009, 12:23 AM

Baron, I applaud you for the work you are doing. As you know I to am encouraging people to get out and vote too and I will vote UKIP because they are a worthy party and there is no other candidate to match on my ballot paper.
I've rarely missed an election and I've been voting since I turned 18 and as a woman I could spit blood sometimes when I hear females spout "I don't know nahfink about politics" and then leave it to men to vote for them. Suffragettes died to give me my vote and I always use it.

Point of interest:
I was doing some family research and came across a house in London where some family members were once living and the 1911 Census stated "5 Suffragettes live here and that's all the information you will get" - classic!

baron von lotsov

09-05-2009, 02:45 AM

hey_jude

09-05-2009, 03:01 PM

We have had a stroke of luck in the last few days. This MP expenses racket is going to hit all three parties, the Libdems, Liebour and Tory. What it will not touch is any of the others, because they don't have MPs in Westminster. The timing is absolutely perfect because this story will build in the next 2-3 weeks, and probably peak on about June 4th. Someone is on our side, and this could be a breakthrough.

Also they have only done one poll of the EU elections this year, now why do you think that is? All we know is Liebour are running scared and that was before this story broke. The Tories and Liebour are actually joining forces to attack the BNP, and that includes Harperson, one of the craziest people in Nu Liebour. All odds are on that the UKIP will do better than expected once again. If they overtake Liebour then Brown could be kicked out. That’s how bad it is, but I have no idea what will happen, although there is a chance of something really good happening. So many people in this country want to get rid of that party.

Agreed on all points Baron!
Not just someone on our side, the BCGroup have active members writing blogs and commenting on "have your say" boards all over the country and the word is out. Boycott the 3 main parties is on peoples lips - recently I met someone with regards my work and not at all connected in anyway to politics and they told me the same thing "boycott the 3 main parties", you could have knocked me down with a feather!
Harperson is indeed crazy ...certainly unhinged in my opinion.
Miss Harriet Harman was a newly qualified solicitor when she became legal officer for the NCCL in 1978 [National Council for Civil Liberties] now called Liberty.
The famous NuLabour Patricia Hewitt was the general secretary. At this time the Paedophile Information Exchange [PIE] and the Paedophile Action for Liberation [PAL] were two of the groups afiliated with this organisation. Their objectives certainly leave little to the imagination!

Thank goodness these vile corrupt politicians are being shown for what they are even a journalist can safely look down on them with impunity.