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View Full Version : Reggie Kray, evil????????.


scatlond
11-01-2009, 04:46 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

polveirbecker
11-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Which book what it may I ask. Can I also add that many books of the crime genre tend to tell different stories so you can never be sure whatís true.

Personally though I do think he was a political prisoner because he had more influence on the streets than any politician did in his area.

scatlond
11-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Which book what it may I ask. Can I also add that many books of the crime genre tend to tell different stories so you can never be sure whatís true.

Personally though I do think he was a political prisoner because he had more influence on the streets than any politician did in his area.


I have read three books about him, A way of Life, by himself, Born Fighter, by himself and Reg Kray a man apart, by his wife. Yes I accept these will be written in a favourable light , but going on my instincts I believe most of it.

God Bless Reggie Kray

polveirbecker
11-01-2009, 05:08 PM
I have read three books about him, A way of Life, by himself, Born Fighter, by himself and Reg Kray a man apart, by his wife. Yes I accept these will be written in a favourable light , but going on my instincts I believe most of it.

God Bless Reggie Kray

Hereís one really good website to find out more about Criminals and the Law - http://www.ferrisconspiracy.co.uk/

scatlond
11-01-2009, 05:10 PM
Hereís one really good website to find out more about Criminals and the Law - http://www.ferrisconspiracy.co.uk/

I am very aware of the ferris conspiracy, Ive got the collection. Who really are the criminals.

polveirbecker
11-01-2009, 05:19 PM
I am very aware of the ferris conspiracy, Ive got the collection. Who really are the criminals.

Aye

I just think that these criminals that we are talking about are just trying to make a living for themselves. I donít think you would ever see the likes of Reggie Krey, Paul Ferris and Lenney Mclean go on a killing spree like the government do.

Ok these people may have killed other people before but Iím more than sure it was retaliation rather than to get kicks out of it. Crime is the most successful industry in the world. The only thing you need to do is avoid the government - the main criminals on this planet.

runlikehell
11-01-2009, 07:04 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

Im reading "the cult of Violence: The Untold Story Of The Krays", it's a good read so far.

Reggie evil? certainly some of the things he done, were dodgey but one thing people have got to remember is, that the people they hurt were going to hurt them, or were ripping them off, that's what happens in the world they lived in, it's a dangerous life. They dident go about attacking just anybody in the street (unlike most of the scum today) they had respect. As far as i know Ronnie was the worst one out the two for violence.

Question: If someone was attempting to take your life and you murdered them dose that make you evil?

alfrmo
11-01-2009, 08:40 PM
Whilst poor old Reggie was made an example by the PTB, I love the statements that always come out in defence of psycopathic killers, such as "He loved his old Gran" or "He only ever dealt with anyone who crossed him" etc. This is totally naive. Whilst he may have changed some of his ways in prison (where he continued to run his business) he was still a ruthless gangster, who extorted money from innocent people via violence. In my opinion he would have done better going into politics or joining the Police.... So yes, I think he was evil.

scatlond
11-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Whilst poor old Reggie was made an example by the PTB, I love the statements that always come out in defence of psycopathic killers, such as "He loved his old Gran" or "He only ever dealt with anyone who crossed him" etc. This is totally naive. Whilst he may have changed some of his ways in prison (where he continued to run his business) he was still a ruthless gangster, who extorted money from innocent people via violence. In my opinion he would have done better going into politics or joining the Police.... So yes, I think he was evil.

Fair points, I will take it at face value that he did have healing powers, how then can he be evil, maybe at some point he was but that changed. I think the truely evil are incapable of loving anything. Ronnie was officially declared insane, so that take the label of evil off him.

Maybe if they had been brought up in leafy suburbia, they may have became do gooders.Reggie takes full responsiblity for his actions and the consequences, another reason for his continued imprisonment was his celebrity status(which he says he wouldnt have wanted celebrity, he wanted to retire to the country). And at that time there were a few celebrity gangsters who wouldnt want there limelight taken away.

armoured_amazon
11-01-2009, 08:50 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

Do you think satan is unable to gift his servants?

scatlond
11-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Do you think satan is unable to gift his servants?

I cant answer that, I dont have a conception of satan.

armoured_amazon
11-01-2009, 09:25 PM
I cant answer that, I dont have a conception of satan.

Replace the word 'satan' with 'evil'.

scatlond
11-01-2009, 09:32 PM
This reminds me of a chat I had with a guy I know who is a jehovahs witness, I know him because he turned up at my door one morning to tell me about god I invited him in to listen to what he had to say, eventually he stopped coming when I became interested in spiritualism.

I met him recently, he suggested that he pop up to see me with a magazine(the watch tower), I said if you want but I am still getting communication from dead people. He said they are kidding you on it is demons, I said WHAT! are you telling me that Lena zavaroni is a demon, he said no its a demon pretending to be Lena Zavaroni.

I said what about Reggie Kray, is that a demon being a demon or a demon pretending to be Reggie Kray. No answer.

armoured_amazon
11-01-2009, 09:46 PM
This reminds me of a chat I had with a guy I know who is a jehovahs witness, I know him because he turned up at my door one morning to tell me about god I invited him in to listen to what he had to say, eventually he stopped coming when I became interested in spiritualism.

I met him recently, he suggested that he pop up to see me with a magazine(the watch tower), I said if you want but I am still getting communication from dead people. He said they are kidding you on it is demons, I said WHAT! are you telling me that Lena zavaroni is a demon, he said no its a demon pretending to be Lena Zavaroni.

I said what about Reggie Kray, is that a demon being a demon or a demon pretending to be Reggie Kray. No answer.

Hmmm, hardly. I never said Reggie Kray was a demon. Nor am I evangelising to you. You asked a question and I posed one back to you.

scatlond
11-01-2009, 10:00 PM
The question being How can Reggie Kray be evil if he has healing powers, answer, Do you think that satan does not gift his servants,

Heaing as I understand it is a power for good.

saab1981
11-01-2009, 11:03 PM
I have read a number of books on the man. He was essentially an articulate man of integrity, and was in prison longer than he should have been, much longer.

I can't condone him killing another person, but the person he murdered was a horrible bloke, who pushed a woman out of a car, breaking her neck, amongst other things.

scatlond
11-01-2009, 11:14 PM
A quote from one of his books,

If you travel the same route as everyone else
all you will see is what they have already seen- Iain Banks.

My interpretation of that is , if this life is about learning through experience, as i believe, then there are many differing experiences to have. Reggie Kray knows what it is like to kill someone. Not an experience I would want to have , but an experience nevertheless.

armoured_amazon
12-01-2009, 02:10 AM
The question being How can Reggie Kray be evil if he has healing powers, answer, Do you think that satan does not gift his servants,

Heaing as I understand it is a power for good.

Okay, in my own personal experience, darkness can give gifts as often as light does; often moreso.

scatlond
12-01-2009, 02:11 AM
Hmmm interesting. What do you mean by darkness.

armoured_amazon
12-01-2009, 02:30 AM
Hmmm interesting. What do you mean by darkness.

I mean satan. As you have no concept of satan, I'm trying to use across-the-board terminology. Before I came to God, my conduct of my environment was very powerful and led me further from God because I believed I was my own god, the creator of my destiny, blah blah blah. I controlled the weather, healed (laying on hands), moved objects - all parlour tricks for the amusement of my friends, I guess - when I chose a different path I realised those gifts were not from God and I spent a great deal of time earning (some of) them back FROM God and coming to terms with the loss of my personal power. Other people may live a wicked life and prosper financially. Why do the wicked prosper? If you have - in your mind - no Creator and have not seen demons and other astral beings and not witnessed non-physical happenings, then your reasoning will be different to mine. I believe the world that we live in is controlled by satanic forces right now and people's comfort zone and gifts from the darkness will encourage them not to seek anything else; that's why so many people are asleep and restricted to physical existence. They believe everything is of their own making; that no external forces play a hand.

Yiremeyahu (Jeremiah) 12:1 "Right wouldest Thou be, HaShem, were I to contend with Thee, yet will I reason with Thee: Why do the wicked prosper? Wherefore are all they secure that deal very treacherously?"

Each man has the power of choice, and is able to choose either side, knowingly and willingly, as well as to possess whichever one he wishes. Man was therefore created with both a good inclination (yetzer tov) and an evil inclination (yetzer hara). He has the power to incline himself in which ever direction he desires[3].

Those who are righteous, the tzaddikim, in this world have made a conscious, decision to plant their tree on the side of righteousness.

Those who are wicked, the reshaim, in this world have made a decision to plant their tree on the side of wickedness.

Yet, most people never make a decision to move their tree one way or the other, and thus they remain in the middle, balanced between good and evil, they are still firmly straddling the line, a very bad position to be in. They fail to do what they were created to do.

Revelation 3:16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

A man may be gifted in multiple ways but if their actions are not good, it's usually an indicator of who is bestowing them. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. :)

shankara
12-01-2009, 06:38 AM
"Reggie Kray, do you know my name? Don't say you don't, please say you do, oooh oooh..."

Sorry, all I know about him is that he's a Famous International (and possibly evil) Playboy. :D

scatlond
12-01-2009, 06:28 PM
I mean satan. As you have no concept of satan, I'm trying to use across-the-board terminology. Before I came to God, my conduct of my environment was very powerful and led me further from God because I believed I was my own god, the creator of my destiny, blah blah blah. I controlled the weather, healed (laying on hands), moved objects - all parlour tricks for the amusement of my friends, I guess - when I chose a different path I realised those gifts were not from God and I spent a great deal of time earning (some of) them back FROM God and coming to terms with the loss of my personal power. Other people may live a wicked life and prosper financially. Why do the wicked prosper? If you have - in your mind - no Creator and have not seen demons and other astral beings and not witnessed non-physical happenings, then your reasoning will be different to mine. I believe the world that we live in is controlled by satanic forces right now and people's comfort zone and gifts from the darkness will encourage them not to seek anything else; that's why so many people are asleep and restricted to physical existence. They believe everything is of their own making; that no external forces play a hand.



A man may be gifted in multiple ways but if their actions are not good, it's usually an indicator of who is bestowing them. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. :)

Thank you armoured amazon, What i understand from that is that Reg was on the side of darkness, then changed to the light, I have been darkside, scars to prove it.Maybe it is beneficial to the essence of our being that we experience both, I am glad that I experienced both sides.:)

scatlond
12-01-2009, 06:30 PM
"Reggie Kray, do you know my name? Don't say you don't, please say you do, oooh oooh..."

Sorry, all I know about him is that he's a Famous International (and possibly evil) Playboy. :D

Excellent song, Ron and Reg liked it apparently, Morrisey sent a wreath to Rons funeral saying, To the last of the famous international playboys.

armoured_amazon
12-01-2009, 06:32 PM
Thank you armoured amazon, What i understand from that is that Reg was on the side of darkness, then changed to the light, I have been darkside, scars to prove it.Maybe it is beneficial to the essence of our being that we experience both, I am glad that I experienced both sides.:)

I think we all experience both in our lives. :)

scatlond
12-01-2009, 06:46 PM
How would one know light if one didnt have darkness. How would you know a good day if you didnt have a bad day etc.

armoured_amazon
12-01-2009, 06:50 PM
Yup, exactly. But straddling the line is not a good place to be, long-term.

micklemus
12-01-2009, 07:00 PM
It’s easy to romanticise the gangster image. However I know people who were in the East End during the Krays’ pomp and it seems to me that they were only viewed as lovely people by their family and their extensive entourage of hangers-on. Most people feared them and engendering fear is not a helpful characteristic. They took the old fashioned trait of looking after one’s own and having respect for one’s neighbours, mixed it with serious organised crime and produced a bastardised and extremely violent result.

I have in the past enjoyed reading the numerous books about these people (and particularly Lenny McLean) but they could never be objectively described in a positive way during their pomp. As to whether new leaves were turned during incarceration, stranger things have happened; we change all the time. Good luck to Reg if he did.

scatlond
12-01-2009, 07:08 PM
Yup, exactly. But straddling the line is not a good place to be, long-term.

Neutralised therefore ineffective.

scatlond
12-01-2009, 07:10 PM
Itís easy to romanticise the gangster image. However I know people who were in the East End during the Kraysí pomp and it seems to me that they were only viewed as lovely people by their family and their extensive entourage of hangers-on. Most people feared them and engendering fear is not a helpful characteristic. They took the old fashioned trait of looking after oneís own and having respect for oneís neighbours, mixed it with serious organised crime and produced a bastardised and extremely violent result.

I have in the past enjoyed reading the numerous books about these people (and particularly Lenny McLean) but they could never be objectively described in a positive way during their pomp. As to whether new leaves were turned during incarceration, stranger things have happened; we change all the time. Good luck to Ron if he did.

Thank you Mike, It is Reg I am concentrating on, Ron due, to Mental Illness cannot be considered as evil or good. I firmly believe Reg Kray did turn to the light.

micklemus
13-01-2009, 01:02 PM
Apologies, I did mean to say Reg and typed Ron. I've corrected my post.

alfrmo
13-01-2009, 01:35 PM
This is an interesting thread, in my previous thread I suggested that Reggie Kray

was evil. In doing so I didn't mean that he was therefore incapable of good,

as this would be a mistake. In my opinion, we are all capable of good and bad

deeds. We all have gifts that can be used for good or indeed bad. Most

so-called "successful people" have got there through being so focused that

they aren't aware of the folks they are damaging to achieve their aims.

I have worked with many murderers, one of whom I taught the guitar, others

due to the crimes committed do have remorse...and do change their views

on life. Some couldn't give a shit.

In my opinion there are very few people who are totally evil, I am always

of the belief that the most violent people are the often the most scared,

they therefore seek to perpetuate the only thing they are good at, violence

and fear.

armoured_amazon
13-01-2009, 02:18 PM
In my opinion there are very few people who are totally evil, I am always

of the belief that the most violent people are the often the most scared,

they therefore seek to perpetuate the only thing they are good at, violence

and fear.

I think so, too. :)

Neutralised therefore ineffective.

Exactly! :)

skyver
13-01-2009, 03:14 PM
Hmmm, hardly. I never said Reggie Kray was a demon. Nor am I evangelising to you. You asked a question and I posed one back to you.

What armoured amazon was getting at is that evil can & does carry out good deeds, the perfect cover, also sometimes people are more inclined to be evil.

Just because they had Healing powers does not make them good. I could go & rob a bank & give some needy people out of the proceeds. Now those people would probably call me some kinda' misguided "robin hood" hero type figure. Now inside the bank I could have shot the guard, whipped the butt of my gun across the granny in the line & told the manager that I have his home address?

Not sayin' the Krays done anything like this but what about the extortion, say a shopkeeper whose is struggling as it is?

brassneck69
13-01-2009, 04:29 PM
I dont comment on much on these forums, though i am here everyday.

Ive had extremely close and personal dealings with the Kray camp, and i own some interesting and possibly valuable items that have belonged to both Ron and Reg.
Ive been fortunate, or unfortunate depending on your view, to read, hear and be part of numerous discussions and arguments from pro-Kray and anti-Kray parties.
So i will give an honest account which is FACTUAL, not an opinion or guesswork.

At the end of their "reign", when they were arrested, they were broke. They owned nothing of value, and were arrested at their mums council flat where they were living at the time.
Reggie "running his business from inside" is another myth. When Ronnie was buried, Reg didnt have the money to buy him a decent shirt to be buried in, FACT. I know who bought the shirt, where it came from and even how much it cost. :)

As for Reg being evil, now thats a hard one. Depends on your definition of evil, but try this for size.

Reg admitted to having sex with at least one under age boy. As the boy is under age he cannot consent, so this amounts to rape of a minor.
Or put another way, a peadophile.

Dont take my word for it, seek out his final video, his last ever sworn statements from his travel lodge bed and he admits it and comes clean.


Paul Ferris is a different class. The guy has morals and principles. Is he evil? Again depends on your definition. I dont think so.

Like i said i dont often comment on here, but im here everyday.

But this is my area of expertise, so to speak. Ive been involved with and dealt with a good few household named criminals from the last 15 years, some good, some bad.

And no i am not a policeman, or a gangster.
I worked alone :)

scatlond
13-01-2009, 09:15 PM
Coming from Glasgow I am aware of Paul Ferris, dont know him. I wanted to go along to one of his question answer sessions in Borders Books after he and Reg Mckay released another gangster book.I have read the Ferris collection

Though Paul Ferris says he is no longer involved in crime I wanted to ask if he was still making money from crime, writing lots of books about his life of crime.

ustane
03-08-2009, 11:31 PM
I didn't know Reggie Kray had done healing on inmates inside or died of cancer or that they were broke when arrested & that Reggie owning his business from inside was myth, so I'm glad I found this thread first & read this before posting any of my observations on The Krays in another thread beforehand. I assumed Ronnie to be the more violent judging from the movie and know that he went to Broadmoor. The film portrayed them with psychopathic, reptilian behaviour and I was going to say how much reptilian imagery there was in the film. First off starting with their birth and the description of an egg hatching, the theme of crocodiles, crocodile brooch, the snake owned by Ronnie and the present from the Americans of a reptilian ornament, starting with this obssession of reptiles with the boys' aunt at the beginning who instilled in them crocodiles having others in fear, and the ending, again with the hatching of an egg. The twins were also telepathic together.

ustane
03-08-2009, 11:46 PM
I have read a number of books on the man. He was essentially an articulate man of integrity, and was in prison longer than he should have been, much longer.

I can't condone him killing another person, but the person he murdered was a horrible bloke, who pushed a woman out of a car, breaking her neck, amongst other things.

I remember him, Jack the Hat, that man from the film, he was repulsive

denis
29-10-2013, 12:28 PM
The Krays were actually stopping the bad things (and street prostitute pimping/drug-dealing) from happening in London. That was why they were taken out by the elite. People who have lived through that period in London would know of the deep deep hole of a free-for-all that was orchestrated by tptb and the Met following the jailing of the twins. The ice-cream and taxi wars alone raged on for many years. Prostitutes were bought and sold in groups. It was an orchestrated take-over by the Mob and the Met- who then for the first time targetted innocent people and businesses. For the first time in London, law-abiding shopkeepers would now have to pay money every week, or have their businesses destroyed. London very quickly degenerated into a cesspit and an extremely dangerous place for everyone. Many new rackets set up by the Mob flourished, using the Met officers as security, collection agents, and enforcers. Women,children, and the innocent were no longer safe on the streets of London. The elite could now ship their illicit drugs into London and sell them on the streets through the Mob and their agents. Many truck loads every day. Car thefts and bank/jewel/bullion robberies and other crimes, including murder, now started to become commonplace, often carried out by "professionals" carrying new firearms, (and that did not exclude high-ranking Met officers).
They may rewrite history as many times as they like, will it will not remove the truth. The Krays had been taken over by Big Brother.

grandmasterp
29-10-2013, 12:40 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.


I can assure you that Reggie Kray did not use his " healing powers" on prison staff.
Reggie and Ronnie were bad lots both of them but no worse than many villains today.
They did command respect from both staff and inmates whether in prison or special hospital.
The old time villains had a code that the new lads have no idea about.
When the Krays ruled the roost round the East End your old Nan could walk unmolested down Brick Lane at 2 am of a Sunday morning with her pension in her hand.
Nonces and wrong uns received 'summary justice' hence there weren't any about round that manor.
Times change.
Evil though, probably not, just two brothers who loved their old Mum getting a living in a dodgy business where sometimes extreme violence was seen as an acceptable necessity.
Bit like the modern 'arms trade' but on a more parochial scale.

andy1033
29-10-2013, 12:52 PM
I am glad that sort of person was finished in london by the time i was born.

London today is run by gov and police only, and not by regional crime gangs. Govs probably used those gangs and groups to there advantage, before modern techs took over society.

I have no clue whom that geezer is, but i am glad society is moving away from people whom do not follow rules, over running society and making themselves king over anyone in the area.

London like all cities would of always been run by people like that, but thankfully modern techs gave control to people whom have to follow rules.

I have nout against people like that, but govs probably used people like the krays, to run areas and police probably had hands in there groups too.

But i am glad that era of london was ending by the time i was born, and electronic mind control has taken over and people whom have to follow rules runs it now.

London should be a place where no one runs any areas. People just live there lifes, and do that to the best they can without mobs or gangs hanging over them.

People whom ran places like london, would make films like chainsaw massacre films look tame. If you let people without rules run society, they do the most horrendous things to people, without anything other than hearsay to justify there ways.

I am glad society will be one where they decide to watch everyone non stop. The things people got away with in the past must of be horrific.

beechtree
29-10-2013, 12:53 PM
He was like jim'll fix it in jail...
Wouldn't be surprised.

Kray's deathbed secrets revealed

Ronnie further shocked Charlie by telling him that Reggie was a bisexual. When Charlie confronted Reggie, according to O'Leary, the twin confirmed the claim, adding: 'Don't you think that boys are nice, Charlie? I think I could fancy a few myself.'

Despite this acknowledgment, Reggie habitually denied he was a bisexual. 'I would say that Reg fought the fact he could also be bisexual more than Ron, but I knew of his affection for quite a few young male teenagers with whom he kept company,' said O'Leary.

Reggie Kray's 'adopted' son (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169010/Revealed-How-Reggie-Kray-adopted-pen-pal-boy-10-abandoned-father.html)


Nonces and wrong uns received 'summary justice' ...
Krays: Lords of the Underworld (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DB1Kdz28ws)
It mentions teenage boys a few times, with a Kray associate saying he'd seen a teenage boxer being ordered to go home with one of the Krays after a night out.

hercules
29-10-2013, 02:51 PM
Wouldn't be surprised.




Krays: Lords of the Underworld (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DB1Kdz28ws)
It mentions teenage boys a few times, with a Kray associate saying he'd seen a teenage boxer being ordered to go home with one of the Krays after a night out.

Nonces and wrong uns received summary justice? That's a bit hypocrital considering Reg (allegedly) admitted having sex with an under age boy...

reallife
29-10-2013, 03:38 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

There is no such thing as good and bad.
Its all about energy, use it which ever way you feel.

denis
29-10-2013, 04:57 PM
I am glad that sort of person was finished in london by the time i was born.

London today is run by gov and police only, and not by regional crime gangs. Govs probably used those gangs and groups to there advantage, before modern techs took over society.

I have no clue whom that geezer is, but i am glad society is moving away from people whom do not follow rules, over running society and making themselves king over anyone in the area.

London like all cities would of always been run by people like that, but thankfully modern techs gave control to people whom have to follow rules.

I have nout against people like that, but govs probably used people like the krays, to run areas and police probably had hands in there groups too.

But i am glad that era of london was ending by the time i was born, and electronic mind control has taken over and people whom have to follow rules runs it now.

London should be a place where no one runs any areas. People just live there lifes, and do that to the best they can without mobs or gangs hanging over them.

People whom ran places like london, would make films like chainsaw massacre films look tame. If you let people without rules run society, they do the most horrendous things to people, without anything other than hearsay to justify there ways.

I am glad society will be one where they decide to watch everyone non stop. The things people got away with in the past must of be horrific.


The Krays had very strict rules indeed - old school ones - that were thrown out with the baby once they were locked up.
They only dealt with villains - they looked after the working class, innocents,
- even the police officers and their families were protected by them.
If you were not operating a scam or thefts, then you had no cause to fear them.
What was inserted in their place by the Met knew no rules - please read my earlier comment.
London suddenly became very dangerous for everyone once the twins were locked up.
It had been a very safe place to be, and relatively crime-free.
Criminals who broke the unwritten rules would receive very swift and sometimes severe punishments from their own kind.
A certain balance was kept in that respect by the underworld.
But all that changed when they were taken over, and banged up.

andy1033
29-10-2013, 05:26 PM
The Krays had very strict rules indeed - old school ones - that were thrown out with the baby once they were locked up.
They only dealt with villains - they looked after the working class, innocents,
- even the police officers and their families were protected by them.
If you were not operating a scam or thefts, then you had no cause to fear them.
What was inserted in their place by the Met knew no rules - please read my earlier comment.
London suddenly became very dangerous for everyone once the twins were locked up.

I was not talking about them personally, i was generalising about how cities normally would of been run by different gangs or groups in each other. I think that may of served society once, but no more.

Dangers in any human in society like that being king. Acting with the authority of a king may of been ok in times gone by, but not today.

But like i said, i was not really talking about the krays as like i said i was generalising.

I prefer the fact that london today is run by gov power and force, and they can come down on anyone they want without all the stuff associated with people like kray twins.

That sort of stuff should be left in past. I understand police and govs would of used people like that in past to help run places like london.

I am just saying i am glad, that no one should be acting as no king type person over any area, or group anymore.

gremlin
29-10-2013, 05:29 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

Well this is the first I have heard that he was clairvoyant, I get the feeling it's a wind up. 30 years inside will change a person. Need a lot more evidence to convince me otherwise.

denis
29-10-2013, 05:40 PM
I was not talking about them personally, i was generalising about how cities normally would of been run by different gangs or groups in each other. I think that may of served society once, but no more.

Dangers in any human in society like that being king. Acting with the authority of a king may of been ok in times gone by, but not today.

But like i said, i was not really talking about the krays as like i said i was generalising.

I prefer the fact that london today is run by gov power and force, and they can come down on anyone they want without all the stuff associated with people like kray twins.

That sort of stuff should be left in past. I understand police and govs would of used people like that in past to help run places like london.

I am just saying i am glad, that no one should be acting as no king type person over any area, or group anymore.

They were no angels - but London suddenly transformed into one gigantic hell-hole once they were taken out.
Please spare a thought,Andy, for the innocents who then became targets.
I do however agree with most of what you say, and that different times need different solutions.

denis
30-10-2013, 01:25 PM
"Two men "killed" by the KrayTwins who were never killed and are still alive".

http://thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/two-men-killed-by-the-kray-twins-who-were-never-killed-and-are-still-alive/

As I have previously stated, they were put away by the elite for a purpose that was more to do with future expansion of business and expensive drugs (rather than past deeds)..
History had to be rewritten (many times over) to justify that.
Lots of books available on the subject have been written to hide the truth.
Not a single one mentions the ensuing and highly orchestrated criminality that descended on London and commenced from the moment of their incarceration.

It's not the first time, and it won't be the last.
Typical illuminati procedure - it gets rather tiresome to see this time and again.
But when it happens you know the subject matter has been restitched.

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 01:53 PM
I have just finished a book about Reggie Kray, I cannot accept that Reggie is/was evil

Reggie kray whilst serving a 30 year recommendation was a Psychic, Clairvoyant with healing powers, which he used on his fellow inmates and prison staff.

How can someone with healing powers be evil, it doesnt make sense. I believe Reggie was a political prisoner, but for the fact he was dying of cancer, they would never have released him, he served 32 years of a 30 year recommendation, his whole family died one by one while he was in prison.

He was like jim'll fix it in jail, letters from all sorts of people asking for help which if possible was given.

Evil ? certainly not imo, the government that got there pound of flesh is the evil.

God Bless Reggie Kray.

Psychic? yet he was unable to see that stabbing someone in the chest & cutting his body to pieces would get him life in prison?
And where did the healing claim come from? what did he do? stitch the guy back together, wrap him up like a mummy & give him the kiss of life?
Perhaps that is why the police never found the body? they are looking inside pigfarms, but it is actually inside some tomb in egypt?
Notice Reggie is so clairvoyant he never did say what they done with the body? Do you know how hurtful that is for the victims family? The real heroes are the guys that stand up to bullies such as those two.

Sorry about my skepticism, but people that murder & get caught red-handed & then plead 'not guilty' are not to be believed & nor are the conmen that vouch for them.

As for evil? what they did was dark & they got off lightly. imo

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 03:18 PM
"Two men "killed" by the KrayTwins who were never killed and are still alive".

http://thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/two-men-killed-by-the-kray-twins-who-were-never-killed-and-are-still-alive/

As I have previously stated, they were put away by the elite for a purpose that was more to do with future expansion of business and expensive drugs (rather than past deeds)..
History had to be rewritten (many times over) to justify that.
Lots of books available on the subject have been written to hide the truth.
Not a single one mentions the ensuing and highly orchestrated criminality that descended on London and commenced from the moment of their incarceration.

It's not the first time, and it won't be the last.
Typical illuminati procedure - it gets rather tiresome to see this time and again.
But when it happens you know the subject matter has been restitched.

Those two guys in the book are 'not' the two guys that the krays got sent down for killing.
The two guys they 'officially' killed was Jack "The Hat" McVitie and George Cornell.

The police never said that Teddy Smith & other was killed by the Krays. The fact there was more suspected murders committed by the twins was purely belief among gangsters/mobsters/organised career criminals

Only other gangsters/mobsters/organised career criminals involved in that network would even know what this author is talking about.

Possibally why this author waited over 40years till after the twins were dead b4 publishing it? no?
I mean the last thing he would have wanted is the krays phoning him up asking why he is writing books about more suspected murder victims at a time when they are seeking parole?

denis
30-10-2013, 04:21 PM
Those two guys in the book are 'not' the two guys that the krays got sent down for killing.
The two guys they 'officially' killed was Jack "The Hat" McVitie and George Cornell.

The police never said that Teddy Smith & other was killed by the Krays. The fact there was more suspected murders committed by the twins was purely belief among gangsters/mobsters/organised career criminals

Only other gangsters/mobsters/organised career criminals involved in that network would even know what this author is talking about.

Possibally why this author waited over 40years till after the twins were dead b4 publishing it? no?
I mean the last thing he would have wanted is the krays phoning him up asking why he is writing books about more suspected murder victims at a time when they are seeking parole?


Hi, Blacky, Yes - I know all of that already - he is not the author - the MSM is - he quotes tthe Daily Mail as one source.
It does not deter from the fact that the twins were discredited with crimes they did not commit.
What the police said is of little relevance, compared to the larger picture.
Quote:
"this came to mind when I chatted with Mickey Fawcett this week and I mentioned the fact that it was in print in various places that the Krays had killed Billy Frost in the 1960s, yet I had met him in the 2000s."

Most books on the Krays have only surfaced since they died.
If you read the story,the author of the blog is not accusing them of crimes - he is accusing others of attributing crimes to the twins that never occurred.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304827/Sex-lies-Downing-Street-cover-left-Krays-free-kill.html
"Over the next four years their megalomania and madness would grow apace. As we have seen, George Cornell would die at their hands, and so too would Jack ‘The Hat’ McVitie, the ‘Mad Axeman’ Frank Mitchell and Teddy Smith, a one-time boyfriend of Driberg."

The illuminati always ensure history is rewritten where they have done their worst.
The twins incarceration was less to do with justice and more a means to take them out, and replace them with others who would carry out drug deals, racketeering and other serious crimes without question.

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 05:00 PM
Hi, Blacky, Yes - I know all of that already - he is not the author - the MSM is - he quotes tthe Daily Mail as one source.
It does not deter from the fact that the twins were discredited with crimes they did not commit.
What the police said is of little relevance, compared to the larger picture.
Quote:
"this came to mind when I chatted with Mickey Fawcett this week and I mentioned the fact that it was in print in various places that the Krays had killed Billy Frost in the 1960s, yet I had met him in the 2000s."

Most books on the Krays have only surfaced since they died.
If you read the story,the author of the blog is not accusing them of crimes - he is accusing others of attributing crimes to the twins that never occurred.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304827/Sex-lies-Downing-Street-cover-left-Krays-free-kill.html
"Over the next four years their megalomania and madness would grow apace. As we have seen, George Cornell would die at their hands, and so too would Jack ‘The Hat’ McVitie, the ‘Mad Axeman’ Frank Mitchell and Teddy Smith, a one-time boyfriend of Driberg."

The illuminati always ensure history is rewritten where they have done their worst.
Their incarceration was nothing to do with justice - it was only a means to take them out.

I would argue they did not need discrediting.
The 'drinkers' at the blind-beggar testified against Ronnie & the entire gang testified against Reggie and all got charged with accomplicing with sentences varying between 5 years & 12 years.
In Kate Krays accounts there is no talk of Ronnie or Reggie ever denying it beyond their 'not guilty plea'. They did not even deny it when they took the stand. They simply said nothing.
The Krays entire gang all testified against them & if you listen to their own personal accounts which 'are' available then you will hear them say the reason 'everyone' turned grass is because the twins "mainly Ronnie" had become paranoid & dangerously insane & the gang members feared for their lives as Ronnie seemed to have become 'addicted' to killing after his first victim & appeared to be looking for any excuse to violently & sadistically hurt someone or even kill them.
Even Freddie Foreman quite openly talks about it.
He says the Krays were just a front for him & that they were nothing more than a couple of usefull idiots that turned into huge liabilities.
He almost says all the hype that follows it is nothing more than idiots elaborating & fantasising.
He claims 'he' was behind every pub & racket the krays took credit for.
He also says the krays 'did' kill Mcvittie & that the body was taken to a pig-farm in Hampshire.

denis
30-10-2013, 05:11 PM
I would argue they did not need discrediting.
The 'drinkers' at the blind-beggar testified against Ronnie & the entire gang testified against Reggie and all got charged with accomplicing with sentences varying between 5 years & 12 years.
In Kate Krays accounts there is no talk of Ronnie or Reggie ever denying it beyond their 'not guilty plea'.
The Krays entire gang all testified against them & if you listen to their own personal accounts which 'are' available then you will hear them say the reason 'everyone' turned grass is because the twins "mainly Ronnie" had become paranoid & dangerously insane & the gang members feared for their lives as Ronnie seemed to have become 'addicted' to killing after his first victim & appeared to be looking for any excuse to violently & sadistically hurt someone or even kill them.
Even Freddie Foreman quite openly talks about it.
He says the Krays were just a front for him & that they were nothing more than a couple of usefull idiots that turned into huge liabilities.
He almost says all the hype that follows it is nothing more than idiots elaborating & fantasising.
He claims 'he' was behind every pub & racket the krays took credit for.

With all due respect, I have not been discussing the crimes the twins committed, but rather the aftermath, and the rewriting of history.
It is not done without purpose.
You state that they did not need discrediting - (which comes from numerous sources) - so why was it done ?

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 05:16 PM
With all due respect, I have not been discussing the crimes the twins committed, but rather the aftermath, and the rewriting of history.
It is not done without purpose.
You state that they did not need discrediting - so why was it done ?

All the newspapers need to print a story is a signiture of a person willing to take liability for the claim should anything litigious occur.
That person could be anyone.
Somebody has probably gone to them with the story & it will be on their records who it was, although it will be confidential.

denis
30-10-2013, 05:19 PM
All the newspapers need to print a story is a signiture of a person willing to take liability for the claim should anything litigious occur.

Yes, that's right, but people need to start asking the question Why?
(and why the lawlessness/drug dealing/ that followed) in order to arrive at the truth.

kanz
30-10-2013, 07:02 PM
To call someone evil as such is a hard thing to say as its hard to say who warrants to be called evil , however all men are capable of evil(good and evil being relative).

However anyone involved in the "underworld" as such no matter how nice a guy he is/was has prob did something he didn't want to do , someone somewhere would call "evil", alot more to it than meets the eye , as people only see the action , they very rarely know the back story which would have been the spark which started the fire as such.

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 07:04 PM
End of the day they shot a man through the head simply for calling Ronnie a 'poof' (<<<his choice of word, not mine) & drinking in his manor.
Now some homosexuals may see this as a heroic act, but it was a cowardly act.
George Cornell when approached by IdoRonRon stood up to fight Ronnie & Ronnie pulled out a gun & shot him in the head.
Also it was Ronnie & Reggie making moves into Cornells manor, not the otherway around. Cornell at this time was no threat to the krays and almost everyone involved say Cornell was within his rights to defend himself & drink wherever he damn well pleases.
As for Mcvittie. Mcvittie had never killed anyone in his life & had learning disabilities & had a family that loved him very much. The Krays where advised by 'everyone' including Foreman to leave Mcvittie alone & simply return him to prison but Ronnie decided to go teach McVittie a lesson & McVittie beat the living shit out of him. The entire gang even tried to keep McVittie away from Ronnie for McVitties own good.
Next time they met they are chopping up McVitties body into buscuits.
The Krays also committed lots of other violent offences including stabbings, shootings, bodily harm.
Despite how 'romanticised' they have become, nobody has ever threatened any of the gang for grassing up the Krays, why is this? considering grassing is supposed to be so frowned upon in the criminal world. Infact, once the police got one witness statement this great wall of silence came tumbling down & the whole community turned.
Nobody ever gave anyone a hard-time for grassing quite simply because even the most hard-core criminals at the time where secretly glad to have them off the street.
I really dont think a couple of newspaper reports would make much difference.

denis
30-10-2013, 09:15 PM
End of the day they shot a man through the head simply for calling Ronnie a 'poof' (<<<his choice of word, not mine) & drinking in his manor.
Now some homosexuals may see this as a heroic act, but it was a cowardly act.
George Cornell when approached by IdoRonRon stood up to fight Ronnie & Ronnie pulled out a gun & shot him in the head.
Also it was Ronnie & Reggie making moves into Cornells manor, not the otherway around. Cornell at this time was no threat to the krays and almost everyone involved say Cornell was within his rights to defend himself & drink wherever he damn well pleases.
As for Mcvittie. Mcvittie had never killed anyone in his life & had learning disabilities & had a family that loved him very much. The Krays where advised by 'everyone' including Foreman to leave Mcvittie alone & simply return him to prison but Ronnie decided to go teach McVittie a lesson & McVittie beat the living shit out of him. The entire gang even tried to keep McVittie away from Ronnie for McVitties own good.
Next time they met they are chopping up McVitties body into buscuits.
The Krays also committed lots of other violent offences including stabbings, shootings, bodily harm.
Despite how 'romanticised' they have become, nobody has ever threatened any of the gang for grassing up the Krays, why is this? considering grassing is supposed to be so frowned upon in the criminal world. Infact, once the police got one witness statement this great wall of silence came tumbling down & the whole community turned.
Nobody ever gave anyone a hard-time for grassing quite simply because even the most hard-core criminals at the time where secretly glad to have them off the street.
I really dont think a couple of newspaper reports would make much difference.

I agree they don't! That's what I'm saying.
So please explain WHY the discredit from multiple sources?

You can slag them off as much as you like, but it does not change the truth.
I am not concerned with other people's views of who was right and who was in the wrong.
Lots of people over the years making comments about they did this and didn't do that. Who knows?
It's mostly hearsay.
That is not what I had commented on.
The fact that the Mob and the Met moved in to take over things is evidenced in many ways.
Whether the Krays did this or did that, I am not concerned with.
The fact they were locked up because London was deemed not lawless enough speaks volumes.

And where do YOU get your information from ?
Some book on Amazon?
Do me a favour.

denis
30-10-2013, 09:19 PM
End of the day they shot a man through the head simply for calling Ronnie a 'poof' (<<<his choice of word, not mine) & drinking in his manor.
Now some homosexuals may see this as a heroic act, but it was a cowardly act.
George Cornell when approached by IdoRonRon stood up to fight Ronnie & Ronnie pulled out a gun & shot him in the head.
Also it was Ronnie & Reggie making moves into Cornells manor, not the otherway around. Cornell at this time was no threat to the krays and almost everyone involved say Cornell was within his rights to defend himself & drink wherever he damn well pleases.
As for Mcvittie. Mcvittie had never killed anyone in his life & had learning disabilities & had a family that loved him very much. The Krays where advised by 'everyone' including Foreman to leave Mcvittie alone & simply return him to prison but Ronnie decided to go teach McVittie a lesson & McVittie beat the living shit out of him. The entire gang even tried to keep McVittie away from Ronnie for McVitties own good.
Next time they met they are chopping up McVitties body into buscuits.
The Krays also committed lots of other violent offences including stabbings, shootings, bodily harm.
Despite how 'romanticised' they have become, nobody has ever threatened any of the gang for grassing up the Krays, why is this? considering grassing is supposed to be so frowned upon in the criminal world. Infact, once the police got one witness statement this great wall of silence came tumbling down & the whole community turned.
Nobody ever gave anyone a hard-time for grassing quite simply because even the most hard-core criminals at the time where secretly glad to have them off the street.
I really dont think a couple of newspaper reports would make much difference.

Do you know any of the above for a fact ?
What "people consider cowardly or heroic", like most books available on the matter, has little relevance to the truth.
I was not discussing people's opinions.
What the Krays got up to was almost irrelevant compared to what followed their incarceration.

tribe_of_david
30-10-2013, 09:39 PM
i have a friend who has a letter from one of the kray twins. he wrote to one of them may years ago and recieved a reply, was a short reply which ended "be strong, be happy". i cant remember which of the krays it was from though.

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Do you know any of the above for a fact ?


No, those are the accounts given by Krays gangmembers & a whole host of other people including Foreman & Kate Kray & Franky fraser & others.
They never mentioned any illuminati involvement but apparently Ronnie Kray did have a sexual relationship with lord boothby & later threatened to kill him when the relationship became public knowledge & boothby ended it.
Was it a good move threatening to kill a lord? idk

The Krays btw where by todays standard paedophiles btw
They pimped boys. More so Ronnie.
It is a 'huge' stain upon society that they get idol worshipped.
Although if it was not for Ronnie, Reggie would have been a legit businessman, he actually wanted out of criminality & live a family life.

denis
30-10-2013, 10:32 PM
No, those are the accounts given by Krays gangmembers & a whole host of other people including Foreman & Kate Kray & Franky fraser & others.
They never mentioned any illuminati involvement but apparently Ronnie Kray did have a sexual relationship with lord boothby & later threatened to kill him when the relationship became public knowledge & boothby ended it.
Was it a good move threatening to kill a lord? idk

I am not interested in questionable "accounts" or personal opinions of whatever they did do or did not do. I am not concerned with any of that.

What I am asking you is WHY the discrediting with false accusations from multiple sources ?
You did state that there was no need for it.

You continue to ignore the fact that London immediately became unsafe and dangerous for everyone after their incarceration.
Why were the streets suddenly flooded with drugs ?

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 10:36 PM
I am not interested in questionable "accounts" or whatever they did do or did not do. I am not concerned with any of that.

What I am asking you is WHY the discrediting from multiple sources ?
You did state that there was no need for it.

You continue to ignore the fact that London immediately became unsafe and dangerous for everyone after their incarceration.

You do know Ronnie was by todays standards a paedophile? he pimped & used boys
Also how did london become more dangerous?
The Adamses are more feared than the Krays ever where.
And they are this era.
A lot more violent, a lot deeper in international crime, although more low-key.
Think they where estimated to be worth £250m
But they dont make london any safer.

denis
30-10-2013, 10:47 PM
You do know Ronnie was by todays standards a paedophile? he pimped & used boys
Also how did london become more dangerous?
The Adamses are more feared than the Krays ever where.
And they are this era.
A lot more violent, a lot deeper in international crime, although more low-key.
Think they where estimated to be worth £250m
But they dont make london any safer.

I don't give a shit about accusations and reputations,
The dead cannot answer back, can they?
You know nothing apart from hearsay.

I am asking you WHY the discrediting from numerous sources ?
You stated that it was not needed.

I don't give a shit about who is worth more, or more violent, that is not what I asked.
Other criminals have nothing to do with it -

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 10:52 PM
I don't give a shit about accusations and reputations,

I am asking you WHY the discrediting from numerous sources ?
You stated that it was not needed.
I don't give a shit about who is worth more, or more violent, that is not what I asked.

Other criminals have nothing to do with it -
Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

The Krays where moving into drug dealing themselves.
They held a meeting with an american drug cartel. Something Ronnie was incredibally proud of because he molded himself on american style gangsters. But it came to nothing. I think the americans thought they where punks.
Drug dealing was not really a big thing at that time.
The worldwide demand did not start till after they was banged up.

denis
30-10-2013, 11:02 PM
The Krays where moving into drug dealing themselves.
They held a meeting with an american drug cartel. Something Ronnie was incredibally proud of because he molded himself on american style gangsters. But it came to nothing. I think the americans thought they where punks.
Drug dealing was not really a big thing at that time.
The worldwide demand did not start till after they was banged up.

No - It was a very big thing The streets were flooded with drugs once the twins were put away. Why ?

Why the discrediting?
You state yourself it was not needed - and you claim Ronnie was a paedophile.
Why the discrediting with downright lies from numerous sources in film and books ?

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 11:08 PM
No - It was a very big thing The streets were flooded with drugs oince the twins were put away. Why ?

The mob cut out the middlemen.

Why the discrediting?

It was not a big thing back then.
Drug dealing was not the big business then that it is now.

And why the discrediting? they where murderers.
So what imo someone maybe tried to stitch them up with a couple more, thats their fault for getting involved.
Thats just the cons of being a thug.
If they are man enough to accept getting away with slashing peoples faces, they should be man enough to accept being stitched up.
And btw, that is exactly what i would do if they slashed my face. Stitch em up.
Have you ever thought the story about them came from a boy they raped or guy they slashed?

I am not saying your links are wrong or your thoughts not good, i just dont agree they did not get what they deserved.

seanx
30-10-2013, 11:08 PM
They were no angels - but London suddenly transformed into one gigantic hell-hole once they were taken out.
Please spare a thought,Andy, for the innocents who then became targets.
I do however agree with most of what you say, and that different times need different solutions.

Dear God, how naÔve can you be!!

They were horrendous rapists of young boys

Read the scandal involving them and Lord Boothby - and what they did to these kids.

The krays were in the same league as Jimmy saville and all that gang.

As for the nonsense that they NEVER targetted the innocent - what crap- they were parasites who worked
protection rackets on all local innocent hard-working businesses.

They parasited off the innocent.

denis
30-10-2013, 11:22 PM
Dear God, how naÔve can you be!!

They were horrendous rapists of young boys

Read the scandal involving them and Lord Boothby - and what they did to these kids.

The krays were in the same league as Jimmy saville and all that gang.

As for the nonsense that they NEVER targetted the innocent - what crap- they were parasites who worked
protection rackets on all local innocent hard-working businesses.

They parasited off the innocent.

Only as naive as someone like yourself.
The innocent had full protection when the Krays were around..
You should not believe all that you see, or read.
You did not experience the London that is being discussed, so you cannot possibly know.

Your "knowledge" is nothing but regurgitated lies.
The targetting of innocents was done by the Met after the Krays were locked up.

Please at least try and answer the questions that I put if you must intervene with lies and verbal abuse.
And keep religion out of it.

denis
30-10-2013, 11:24 PM
It was not a big thing back then.
Drug dealing was not the big business then that it is now.

And why the discrediting? they where murderers.
So what imo someone maybe tried to stitch them up with a couple more, thats their fault for getting involved.
Thats just the cons of being a thug.
If they are man enough to accept getting away with slashing peoples faces, they should be man enough to accept being stitched up.
And btw, that is exactly what i would do if they slashed my face. Stitch em up.
Have you ever thought the story about them came from a boy they raped or guy they slashed?

I am not saying your links are wrong or your thoughts not good, i just dont agree they did not get what they deserved.

Absolute lies - you know nothing about it at all, my friend.
You are fantasising about something you cannot understand, so please do not try to correct people who do know what they are talking about.

blackyblue
30-10-2013, 11:25 PM
The innocent had full protection when the krays were around..
.

only if they paid.
If they did not pay then the Krays would turn a blind eye.
Those 'where' innocents the krays extorted.
They did not extort those could not be bullied.

They where a protection racket, not a security firm.
There is a slight difference.

The Krays had a gang & they woud tell the gang what pubs to wreck & what pubs not to wreck.

denis
30-10-2013, 11:35 PM
only if they paid.
If they did not pay then the Krays would turn a blind eye.
Those 'where' innocents the krays extorted.
They did not extort those could not be bullied.

They where a protection racket, not a security firm.
There is a slight difference.

The Krays had a gang & they woud tell the gang what pubs to wreck & what pubs not to wreck.

Answer my questions !

Don't bother writing any more lies, just answer the questions I have put.


The innocent had full protection when the Krays were around..
You should not believe all that you see, or read.
You did not experience the London that is being discussed, so you cannot possibly know.

Your "knowledge" is nothing but regurgitated lies.
The targetting of innocents was done by the Met after the Krays were locked up.

Please at least try and answer the questions that I put if you must intervene with lies and verbal abuse.

denis
30-10-2013, 11:39 PM
only if they paid.
If they did not pay then the Krays would turn a blind eye.
Those 'where' innocents the krays extorted.
They did not extort those could not be bullied.

They where a protection racket, not a security firm.
There is a slight difference.

The Krays had a gang & they woud tell the gang what pubs to wreck & what pubs not to wreck.

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

I don't give a shit about accusations and reputations,
The dead cannot answer back, can they?
You know nothing apart from hearsay.

I am asking you WHY the discrediting with false accusations from numerous sources ?
You stated that it was not needed.

I don't give a shit about who is worth more, or more violent, that is not what I asked.
Other criminals have nothing to do with it -

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

seanx
30-10-2013, 11:47 PM
Only as naive as someone like yourself.
The innocent had full protection when the Krays were around..
You should not believe all that you see, or read.
You did not experience the London that is being discussed, so you cannot possibly know.

Your "knowledge" is nothing but regurgitated lies.
The targetting of innocents was done by the Met after the Krays were locked up.

Please at least try and answer the questions that I put if you must intervene with lies and verbal abuse.
And keep religion out of it.

Don't be so NAIVE?

Where do you think they got their protection money from????

The ordinary innocent people criminal scum like the krays always feast and prey on.


I know of no - one who now denies that they were horrendous rapists of young boys

Read the scandal involving them and Lord Boothby - and what they did to these kids.



Are you genuinely UNWARE of all this??

seanx
30-10-2013, 11:53 PM
Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

?

Every single shop, pub, nightclub they forced to pay them money - or else ........

Parasites like the krays operate the same as parsites all over the world.




The Krays linked to Paedophile ring

The Kray Twins were sadistic gangsters with links to top politicians, TV stars, the police and at least one paedophile ring. There was even an Establishment connection and cover-up. Paedophiles offend in all forms, it is just the most powerful ones can protect themselves against the law.What was involved was the systematic abuse of boys, one of whom subsequently became a fairly well known singer

Another, rather less fortunate,wound up in six pieces in two suitcases… The paedophile ring in question had links to the Kray twins.The police uncovered a large-scale juvenile pimping operation centred on a house in Tattingstone, Suffolk. The krays owned a large property in Bildeston, less than 12 miles away and were known to visit Tattingstone where they were involved with local youth clubs and giving children donkey ridesSome of the boys were obtained via a close friend of Benjamin Britten who named him as one of the beneficiaries of the ‘service’: other’customers’ included Lord Boothby (who frequently shared boys with Ronnie Kray himself) and the record producer Joe Meek.

Benjamin Britten - English composer, conductor, and pianist; and one of the central figures of twentieth-century British classical music in London. Bridcut writes that 13-year-old boys were Britten’s ideal. He liked to imagine himself as still thirteen years old and once explained his ability to write so well for children, “It’s because I’m still thirteen”. Bridcut provides ample proof that Britten was sexually attracted to young boysMeek’s homosexuality and lust for young boys put him under further pressure; he had been convicted of “importuning for immoral purposes” in 1963 and fined £15: he was consequently subject to blackmail. In January 1967, police in Tattingstone, Suffolk, discovered a suitcase containing the mutilated body of Bernard Oliver. According to some accounts, Meek became concerned that he would be implicated in the murder investigation when the Metropolitan Police said they would be interviewing all known homosexual men in the city. Joe Meek had a sadomastic sexual relationship with Ronnie KrayJoe Meek was addicted to amphetamines and obsessed with sťances and the occult. Joe had been arrested for cottaging in 1963…He had been questioned by police about the ‘Suitcase Murder’… (see more at bottom) afterwards he became increasingly paranoid about all those around himJoe committed suicide less than a month after the discovery of the body… At least two other people died in the aftermath of Bernard’s murder as the twins sealed up the leaks.During the Sixties, Ronnie fell in love with a young Arab boy on one of his many trips to Tangier in North Africa.

Reggie Kray was a UK gangster and he was sexually attracted to boys/young men. In 1969, he was jailed for murder. Reggie Kray’s prison file, seen by the Daily Mail, shows he spent hours talking to young offenders and writing to schoolchildren. In 1997, it was reported that: ‘He can frequently be observed engrossed in deep conversation with young inmates…’

A 1977 report on his progress said: ‘Ronald Kray remains an active and predatory homosexual, and cares little who knows it.’ Another report describes how Kray was found in bed with another inmate.Reportedly, prison officers usually turned a blind eye to Kray’s affairs. Reggie Kray’s twin brother was Ronnie Kray, who was also a gangster and lover of boys.The twins had huge property interests in East Anglia. Kray had access to many London care homes and would have boys delivered to parties at DJ Alan ” fluff” Freeman’s large flat over a music shop in East London. There they would meet with show biz types and DJs including Jimmy Saville, Joe Meeks and on occasion Beatles manager Brian Epstein. The eastern crime squad knew about the Kray gangsters and the sex parties known as ” Pink ballets ” with young lads but let them continue. At these parties , young boys , specially brought over from several childrens homes would be plied with drugs and alcohol.

However these parties were forced to come to an end when Police chiefs got wind that the MP & Ex Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe was attending them along with several other prominent MP’s…

At a big London railway station in the spring of 1970, a plastic carrier bag was found in the regular search for bombs before the station closed for the night.
“The contents were an odd assortment of letters and photos, which seemed to have been taken at a kinky party attended by some well-known figures in entertainment.

“One in particular showed a pop singer who masquerades under a Christian persona; dressed in women’s underwear he was pictured with young boys. (I will leave that to you, just who that famous pop singer could of been !)“The bag was duly taken to the station office and, as a senior rail worker wrote out a report for the lost property office, two MI5 men and a special branch officer arrived and demanded the photos.”Boothby was a promiscuous bisexual, in a time when male homosexual activity was a criminal offence. While an undergraduate at Magdalen College, Oxford, Boothby earned the nickname “the Palladium”, because “he was twice nightly”. He later spoke about the role of a speculated homosexual relationship in the drowning of his friend Michael Llewelyn Davies (one of the models for Peter Pan) and fellow Oxonian Rupert Buxton. He did not start to have physical relationships with women until the age of 25. From 1954 he campaigned publicly for homosexual law reform.

Lord Boothby, who was very close to Winston Churchill liked masochistic sex with rent boys and would often be known to use the Krays for procurement of young boys

In 1963 Boothby began an illicit affair with East End cat burglar Leslie Holt (d. 1979), a younger man he met at a gambling club. Holt introduced him to the gangster Ronald Kray, the younger Kray twin, who supplied Boothby with teenage boys and arranged orgies in Cedra Court, receiving personal favours from Boothby in return. Ron used similiar tactics with the boys as he did with Boothby.

The boys were told to behave or else. And they certainly knew what else meant !The Krays also came into the public eye when an exposť in the tabloid newspaper Sunday Mirror alleged that Ron had had a sexual relationship with Lord Boothby, a UK Conservative Party politician. Although no names were printed, when the twins threatened the journalists involved in the story and Boothby threatened to sue, the newspaper backed down, sacked its editor, printed an apology and paid Boothby £40,000 in an out-of-court settlement. As a result, other newspapers were unwilling to uncover the Krays’ connections, criminal and sexual activities.

Pictured in 1963 – Ronnie once said to a boy: “You will go home with Lord Boothby. You will do exactly what Lord Boothby wants. Or I will hurt you”
Kray biographer, John Pearson, writing in the Independent on Sunday, also claims that the Peer and the MP engaged in gay sex orgies with children and that Boothby had a fondness for boys defacating on him, and the Krays had a compromising photograph of Boothby and his memiors.Similarly, when Tom Driberg, a Labour MP and KGB agent who wore fishnet stockings, got involved with the Krays, telling them ‘about the houses of rich friends they could burgle,’ again the government suppressed any inquiry, as they didn’t want to have to cope with the damaging revelations.

The media were further intimidated and silenced when Boothby and Driberg used the Krays ‘to turn anyone over who had crossed them’.

On notepaper carrying his address in Eaton Square, Belgravia, Lord Boothby wrote to Kray on June 6, 1963: ”Thank you for your postcard. I very nearly went to Jersey myself, as I have never been there, and hear from so many people that it is quite delightful.” In 1963 Jimmy Savile was also in JerseyIs just a coincidence that there was a massive paedophile ring operation running out of the Haut de la Garenne childrens home at that very time ?
Sir Jimmy Savile has been implicated in the Haut de la Garenne child abuse scandalOne of those who stood most to lose was Sir Edward Heath, the former prime minister from 1970-74, who was known to visit the Jersey care home the Haute Garrene among others to take young boys on boating weekends on his yacht called ‘Morning Cloud’, or as his bodyguards referred to it, ‘Morning Sickness’.A source spoke to one of his victims and he said about others who were present, and more important, who was supplying the children to him. The person bringing children for him to abuse is Sir Jimmy Saville. He was seen by the witness, victim, taking young boys onboard Heaths yacht the morning cloud when they were at party conference. Allegedly Saville is known for supplying a number of high profile MP’s with children for them to sexually abuse.

Heath was warned on 4 occasions by the head of the Metropolitan police not to loiter in London’s lavatories and not to try to pick up young boys. Nonetheless, he quickly fell prone blackmailers who insisted he dress up in a ridiculous Gestapo uniform in which he was photographed. Alan Collins, a solicitor for several Haut de la Garenne victims, said ‘a handful’ of former residents have now made abuse allegations about Savile. He said Savile’s name was mentioned several times during the police investigation of 2008 but the evidence did not seem to stack up at the time.Police on the island confirmed last week (October 2012) that Savile was investigated as part of the 2008 inquiry into abuse at the children’s home.

It followed claims from a former Haut de la Garenne resident that Savile was involved in an indecent assault in the 1970s. The BBC entertainer, who died last October aged 84, was never charged with any abuse offences.

Jimmy Savile, star of children’s television favourite Jim’ll Fix It, sued the Sun in 2008 over a series of articles linking him to Haut de la Garenne, the Jersey children’s home where human remains were found and children were allegedly tortured and sexually abused. He initially denied ever visiting the home, despite photographic evidence to the contrary. Savile’s reaction was to slap an injunction on The Sun who had to withdraw the picture. This was followed with a series of articles. One asserted that Savile was unwilling to assist with the police investigation and another that he admitted having visited the home. The Sun also criticised Savile for being unprepared to ‘go some way to fixing it for the victims’.

denis
31-10-2013, 08:00 AM
Sean

To set the record straight, with a few truths, which nobody seems to want to deal with:

I have no interest whatsoever in getting into falsities of the twins did this, or the twins did not do that - that is not my purpose here.

The Krays were actually stopping the bad things (and street prostitute pimping/drug-dealing) from happening in London. That was why they were taken out by the elite. People who have lived through that period in London would know of the deep deep hole of a free-for-all that was orchestrated by tptb and the Met following the jailing of the twins. The ice-cream and taxi wars alone raged on for many years. Prostitutes were bought and sold in groups. It was an orchestrated take-over by the Mob and the Met- who then for the first time targetted innocent people and businesses. For the first time in London, law-abiding shopkeepers would now have to pay money every week, or have their businesses destroyed. London very quickly degenerated into a cesspit and an extremely dangerous place for everyone. Many new rackets set up by the Mob flourished, using the Met officers as security, collection agents, and enforcers. Women,children, and the innocent were no longer safe on the streets of London. The elite could now ship their illicit drugs into London and sell them on the streets through the Mob and their agents. Many truck loads every day. Car thefts and bank/jewel/bullion robberies and other crimes, including murder, now started to become commonplace, often carried out by "professionals" carrying new firearms, (and that did not exclude high-ranking Met officers).
They may rewrite history as many times as they like, will it will not remove the truth. The Krays had been taken over by Big Brother.


People need to wake up and realise the truth which has been hidden for many years.

It is easy enough to slander those who are dead, and label them this or that.
Nobody is an angel.
It is high time some people started using their brains, and question why so much effort has been exerted from so many quarters in hiding it -
Sean - please answer the questions I have already posed, rather than copying and pasting lies about subjects on which you know nothing.

And please don't tell me drugs were no big deal in the late 60s hippy era.
And please don't tell me the twins racketeered on the innocent.
Do me a favour !
Those sort of rackets only started after the twins were incarcerated, and were carried out by the Met.

And don't tell me I know nothing about the matter, when I speak from experience, and not from some fabricated book that you seem to have read.
I have not been discussing what the Krays did or what they did not do, but the period after.
Just ask yourself the questions I have posed, because none of the vitriol and lies that you spout against me are relevant to my questions.

What you have read and believed on unofficial official blogs is your business - there are many more lies circulated for the elite, than there are seeking the truth, particularly where child abuse is concerned.
They are not always easy to spot.
Wake up !

(and FFS just drop the verbal abuse - it is rather tedious)

denis
31-10-2013, 08:10 AM
Every single shop, pub, nightclub they forced to pay them money - or else ........

Parasites like the krays operate the same as parsites all over the world.

That is simply not true - and you have not responded with data, as requested.
Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

"Parasites" get rid of dirt that you accumulate, that you are unable to deal with. Nothing in this world is singularly evil.
Even our own immune systems have their own parasites for attacking any threats to our health.
We would all die without them.

There are always at least two sides to every coin.

Where books and films have continually sought to discredit with lies over many years, then there are always reasons that should be known.

The true fact is that with the Krays, London was deemed by tptb not lawless enough.
That speaks volumes.

Just answer the questions I have raised on previous pages.


Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was london flooded with drugs once the twins were locked up ?

blackyblue
31-10-2013, 11:11 AM
Just another example of how the krays where romanticised over the years.
They are described by everyone as 'tall dark & handsom'.
The general consensus is that they where around 6ft2 and i bet £1000 this is the image of them 'you' had through books & documentaries & word of mouth.
However when measured by prison staff upon entering the prison they measured in at 5ft7.
Thats only 5inches taller than Frank Fraser who was considered a midget.
Glasgows Paul Ferris is 5ft8 & he is regarded as small.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255141/Not-scary-Notorious-villain-Ronnie-Kray-youve-seen-before.html

They where actually short & stumpy. And Ronnie was 'not' handsom.
Also Ronnie was apparently slightly taller, so that would make Reggie more like 5ft6 1/2

Where the hell did 6ft2 & tall dark & handsom come from?

missteek
31-10-2013, 11:47 AM
In the town where I grew up there was a wannabee Ronnie Kray.
Him and his cohorts ruled the roost for many years especially in the drug scene.
Anyone else in the area that tried to sell drugs without his permission were usually dropped from a great height.
When he was eventually killed off by a rival the whole town went daft.
The streets were flooded with everyone selling drugs and running around with guns themselves and also vying for the number 1 gangster spot that was now vacant.
Some would say that he was keeping drugs and crime off the streets :o

blackyblue
31-10-2013, 12:03 PM
I think it is a general misconception among young men that they think they live in a world where they need 'heroes' to protect them & join a gang for safety. They are mostly kids, although some do progress to organised crime.
However if you see through those individuals & see them for the weirdo stalkers they are they wont touch you & even if you do know them their business is nothing to do with you & vice versa. They wont approach you if they think they will be laughed at.
For all there may be a few vulnerable kids felt they needed protecting by the Krays, 'millions' dont.

grandmasterp
31-10-2013, 12:08 PM
Well this is the first I have heard that he was clairvoyant, I get the feeling it's a wind up. 30 years inside will change a person. Need a lot more evidence to convince me otherwise.

He wasn't a clairvoyant nor did he do any 'healing'.
" Load of old toffee." Being one of his politer sayings about things he personally considered to be nonsense.

missteek
31-10-2013, 12:08 PM
I think it is a general misconception among young men that they think they live in a world where they need 'heroes' to protect them & join a gang for safety. They are mostly kids, although some do progress to organised crime.
However if you see through those individuals & see them for the weirdo stalkers they are they wont touch you & even if you do know them their business is nothing to do with you.
For all there may be a few vulnerable kids felt they needed protecting by the Krays, 'millions' dont.

I think you're spot on there.
I watched a documentary the other night about gangs in Liverpool.
The majority were quite young.
We've got 19 yr olds killing 16 yr olds.
Very sad :(

seanx
31-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Sean

To set the record straight, with a few truths, which nobody seems to want to deal with:

I have no interest whatsoever in getting into falsities of the twins did this, or the twins did not do that - that is not my purpose here.

The Krays were actually stopping the bad things (and street prostitute pimping/drug-dealing) from happening in London. That was why they were taken out by the elite. People who have lived through that period in London would know of the deep deep hole of a free-for-all that was orchestrated by tptb and the Met following the jailing of the twins. The ice-cream and taxi wars alone raged on for many years. Prostitutes were bought and sold in groups. It was an orchestrated take-over by the Mob and the Met- who then for the first time targetted innocent people and businesses. For the first time in London, law-abiding shopkeepers would now have to pay money every week, or have their businesses destroyed. London very quickly degenerated into a cesspit and an extremely dangerous place for everyone. Many new rackets set up by the Mob flourished, using the Met officers as security, collection agents, and enforcers. Women,children, and the innocent were no longer safe on the streets of London. The elite could now ship their illicit drugs into London and sell them on the streets through the Mob and their agents. Many truck loads every day. Car thefts and bank/jewel/bullion robberies and other crimes, including murder, now started to become commonplace, often carried out by "professionals" carrying new firearms, (and that did not exclude high-ranking Met officers).
They may rewrite history as many times as they like, will it will not remove the truth. The Krays had been taken over by Big Brother.


People need to wake up and realise the truth which has been hidden for many years.

It is easy enough to slander those who are dead, and label them this or that.
Nobody is an angel.
It is high time some people started using their brains, and question why so much effort has been exerted from so many quarters in hiding it -
Sean - please answer the questions I have already posed, rather than copying and pasting lies about subjects on which you know nothing.

And please don't tell me drugs were no big deal in the late 60s hippy era.
And please don't tell me the twins racketeered on the innocent.
Do me a favour !
Those sort of rackets only started after the twins were incarcerated, and were carried out by the Met.

And don't tell me I know nothing about the matter, when I speak from experience, and not from some fabricated book that you seem to have read.
I have not been discussing what the Krays did or what they did not do, but the period after.
Just ask yourself the questions I have posed, because none of the vitriol and lies that you spout against me are relevant to my questions.

What you have read and believed on unofficial official blogs is your business - there are many more lies circulated for the elite, than there are seeking the truth, particularly where child abuse is concerned.
They are not always easy to spot.
Wake up !

(and FFS just drop the verbal abuse - it is rather tedious)

Are you serious????

The Krays were actually stopping the bad things (and street prostitute pimping/drug-dealing) from happening in London

Don't be so naÔve!

They weren't stopping it - they got their CUT form it.

NOTHING was allowed to happen in their patch without 1. their permission and 2. they got their cut of the proceedings!

For God sake, they were raping and pimping out rent boys - male prostitutes.



You're also seem to be saying the krays didn't run a protection racket??

But even they DIDN'T deny that!!!

So tell us all where they got their money from?

Was Reggie a taxi-driver and Ronnie a gay hairstylist?


Have you ever heard of the "long firm" scram?

Are you telling me they weren't involved in that too?

Yet - they openingly admitted to being?

How about all those innocent small businesses who lost fortunes to these scrams, many of whom had to close down?

Also are you also telling me that the krays were not part of a Paedophile ring...involving Lord Boothby?

Have you read the story behind the famous daily mirror libel scandal involving the above??

blackyblue
01-11-2013, 08:52 AM
Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

[/B]

Denis.

If i am a protection racket and an idol of all the young thugs in the area i have the ability to make sure they dont cause trouble in your pub.
For this you pay protection.

This 'is not' protecting the community it is 'extorting' the community.

It is a well known fact which they dont deny that one of the pub owners while being demanded to pay protection money called Ronnie a kid so Ronnie gave him a chelsea smile.

What frustrates me is young men seem to idolise Ronnie & think what he done was heroic & that the pub owner deserved a chelsea smile for calling him a kid. It makes me speechless, really.

blackyblue
01-11-2013, 09:03 AM
Was Reggie evil? actually, no.
He actually wanted out of the gang but his brother was mentally retarded & reggie knew if he left Ronnie to go alone that Ronnie would be dead in a day.
Thats the truth of it.

Nobody was scared of Reggie. Nobody was scared of Ronnie. They where scared of Ronnie & Reggie.

denis
01-11-2013, 11:14 AM
Too many comments from people who think this or that without knowing anything at all other than re-branded official bullshit, who were probably not even in nappies or the East End during the period.

Those who lived in London at the time know much better, and the lawlessness from the aftermath of the takeover on has never been documented successfully to my knowledge. ( similarly with the origins of the SPG thugs who were conscripted from long term jailings to do Maggies bidding on the picket lines)
Those who are aware will know what I am talking about. Those who are not, or have some ulterior motive, will argue.

No matter what field you comment on these days with first hand knowledge,
there are always others who say you are wrong because they think this or that, (without knowing anything).

Additionally, again to set the record straight, bearing in mind the different laws and ages involved at the time, and the fact that the term "boy" in those days actually referred to those under 25 years of age, (and "underage" meant under 21),
I don't see a 20 year old rent "boy" taking £50 off Ronnie for the night as being an innocent who was underage and "forced" to do anything, when the average wage at that time was £4.50 per week.
Just sayin !
Wake up.
Use your noddle !

It speaks volumes that my 2 pertinent questions have not been tackled by anyone so far.

30 years jail for taking two hoodlums off the streets?
You must be joking!
Read the small print and foillow the money, and you may arrive at the truth for once.

Anyone can blacken the reputation of the dead - it takes courage to be honest.

denis
01-11-2013, 11:27 AM
Denis.

If i am a protection racket and an idol of all the young thugs in the area i have the ability to make sure they dont cause trouble in your pub.
For this you pay protection.

This 'is not' protecting the community it is 'extorting' the community.

It is a well known fact which they dont deny that one of the pub owners while being demanded to pay protection money called Ronnie a kid so Ronnie gave him a chelsea smile.

What frustrates me is young men seem to idolise Ronnie & think what he done was heroic & that the pub owner deserved a chelsea smile for calling him a kid. It makes me speechless, really.

I am not talking about what they did or did not do - I'm talking about WHY they were taken out.
I shall reiterate the fact that nobody who was innocent had anything to fear, and no money was ever asked from innocent honest people.

You think it's alright to call people names in front of their business deals/ associates ?
Tough times need tough measures,
Then you have a lot to learn.
With respect, name calling in public is not acceptable.
You can quote me on that if you wish.

And neither is pulling a switchblade on a believed unarmed Ronnie and threatening to cut him up .
Too many people these days inhabiting grown up bodies, but whose mother taught them nothing.

Please discuss the lawless aftermath, and you will arrive at the truth.
They were not taken out by tptb for the official reasons.
The protections were removed once the Krays were locked up.

I shall make no further comments until my questions have been answered, but for the record DO NOT TELL ME THEY DID THIS OR DID NOT DO THAT. I AM NOT DISCUSSING THAT.
Only idiots think they know more from reading biased acounts,rather than from experience.

Please answer my questions

Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

denis
01-11-2013, 11:37 AM
Are you serious????



Don't be so naÔve!

They weren't stopping it - they got their CUT form it.

NOTHING was allowed to happen in their patch without 1. their permission and 2. they got their cut of the proceedings!

For God sake, they were raping and pimping out rent boys - male prostitutes.



You're also seem to be saying the krays didn't run a protection racket??

But even they DIDN'T deny that!!!

So tell us all where they got their money from?

Was Reggie a taxi-driver and Ronnie a gay hairstylist?


Have you ever heard of the "long firm" scram?

Are you telling me they weren't involved in that too?

Yet - they openingly admitted to being?

How about all those innocent small businesses who lost fortunes to these scrams, many of whom had to close down?

Also are you also telling me that the krays were not part of a Paedophile ring...involving Lord Boothby?

Have you read the story behind the famous daily mirror libel scandal involving the above??

With all due respect, you know nothing at all.

Your sources are entirely incorrect, and there is no evidence to support any of your unfounded and untruthful statements.
And please do not keep misquoting me !
I am not denying the Boothby connection, or the rackets, but no innocents or honest businesses were involved
Reggie Maudling was involved with long firm scams, so were some of those involved in the Docklands developments, but nobody seems to be worried about that.
"Where did they get their money from ? "
They had no more working capital than most other medium sized businesses. They owned several nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips, thats all I know of, for starters.
The cars they drove were usually a few years old.

Where do YOU get your money from ?

True "naivety" lies in those who believe they know more from biased opinions than from experience.

Please answer my questions !

Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

blackyblue
01-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Too many comments from people who think this or that without knowing anything at all other than re-branded official bullshit, who were probably not even in nappies or the East End during the period.



Denis

This is not about what i think, it is about what they themselves say.
They wrote books you know.
You are asking me to name names of people 'they' claim to have hurt in their 'public' accounts. They themselves 'claim' to have 'had' people killed. Not just the two they did themselves.
While in prison they made millions simply selling their stories.
If they did not do the things they say they did then they themselves are 'fools'.
If they where under the thumbs of the illuminati why did they not say so in their books? what where they? a couple of cowards?

seanx
01-11-2013, 01:11 PM
With all due respect, you know nothing at all.

Your sources are entirely incorrect, and there is no evidence to support any of your unfounded and untruthful statements.
And please do not keep misquoting me !
I am not denying the Boothby connection, or the rackets, but no innocents or honest businesses were involved
Reggie Maudling was involved with long firm scams, so were some of those involved in the Docklands developments, but nobody seems to be worried about that.
"Where did they get their money from ? "
They had no more working capital than most other medium sized businesses. They owned several nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips, thats all I know of, for starters.
The cars they drove were usually a few years old.

Where do YOU get your money from ?

True "naivety" lies in those who believe they know more from biased opinions than from experience.

Please answer my questions !

Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

Don't talk nonsense.

You sound like a love sick gay?

Did you fancy them or something.........because nobody can be THAT naÔve!


Are you telling us that they DIDN'T run a violent protection racket??

When even they - and their gang members didn't deny that!

Come on!

You think they ran just a medium size business?????

Where do you think they got ALL THE MONEY to buy all these nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips??????

Did Ronnie work a lot of overtime as hair stylist?

Now you tell us - how do YOU know that none of the businesses they
preyed on were innocent?

All the pubs, shops and factories in the East End are crooks ........except of course for the Krays!!!

revlovejoy
01-11-2013, 01:15 PM
Im reading "the cult of Violence: The Untold Story Of The Krays", it's a good read so far.

Reggie evil? certainly some of the things he done, were dodgey but one thing people have got to remember is, that the people they hurt were going to hurt them, or were ripping them off, that's what happens in the world they lived in, it's a dangerous life. They dident go about attacking just anybody in the street (unlike most of the scum today) they had respect. As far as i know Ronnie was the worst one out the two for violence.

Question: If someone was attempting to take your life and you murdered them dose that make you evil?

By that logic, that's pretty much what govs and big corps do to each and the people. But they also give handouts to old,and disabled people, so they aren't evil either.

denis
01-11-2013, 01:30 PM
Don't talk nonsense.

You sound like a love sick gay?

Did you fancy them or something.........because nobody can be THAT naÔve!


Are you telling us that they DIDN'T run a violent protection racket??

When even they - and their gang members didn't deny that!

Come on!

You think they ran just a medium size business?????

Where do you think they got ALL THE MONEY to buy all these nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips??????

Did Ronnie work a lot of overtime as hair stylist?

Now you tell us - how do YOU know that none of the businesses they
preyed on were innocent?

All the pubs, shops and factories in the East End are crooks ........except of course for the Krays!!!

Answer my questions instead of the verbal abuse !


Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

Who were the Met collecting racketeering money from innocent shopkeepers for once the twins were banged up ?

Your resorting to abuse rather than deal with my questions speaks for itself. You are a little --------- ---------- yourself, but I don't have to put that in my comments. !

And for your information, yes, I am serious - why ? Aren't you ?
Oh, of course, you are just full of yourself.

denis
01-11-2013, 01:31 PM
Denis

This is not about what i think, it is about what they themselves say.
They wrote books you know.
You are asking me to name names of people 'they' claim to have hurt in their 'public' accounts. They themselves 'claim' to have 'had' people killed. Not just the two they did themselves.
While in prison they made millions simply selling their stories.
If they did not do the things they say they did then they themselves are 'fools'.
If they where under the thumbs of the illuminati why did they not say so in their books? what where they? a couple of cowards?

With respect, name calling in public is not acceptable, and neither is pulling a blade on an unarmed person

Please answer my questions !

Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

Who were the Met collecting racketeering money from innocent shopkeepers for once the twins were banged up ?

blackyblue
01-11-2013, 02:43 PM
Where did you get your information from ?



From Ronnie Kray.
His books.
I wasted my late teens studying extensively about those types when i to was a little wannabe/wouldbe.
Ronnie nor Reggie ever mentioned the things you are saying.

micklemus
01-11-2013, 03:13 PM
Exactly. I can't believe someone is trying to suggest that the Krays we're good wholesome guys who looked after the East End. They looked after themselves, that much is true, but that's as far as it goes.

I should add that I have the benefit of knowing exactly what it was like from people who lived in the East End back then. I have no doubt at all that they would dispute this revisionist view on history.

The Krays were a nasty piece of work with a sexy public image built around night clubs and embracing the celebrities of the time. They weren't the first gangland types to do this and they won't be the last. What should they have done to be recognised for what they were, walk around wearing sandwich boards saying "we're fucking nasty gangsters running protection rackets and all manner of other nasty activity"?

What a ludicrous discussion.

micklemus
01-11-2013, 03:25 PM
Denis.

If i am a protection racket and an idol of all the young thugs in the area i have the ability to make sure they dont cause trouble in your pub.
For this you pay protection.

This 'is not' protecting the community it is 'extorting' the community.

It is a well known fact which they dont deny that one of the pub owners while being demanded to pay protection money called Ronnie a kid so Ronnie gave him a chelsea smile.

What frustrates me is young men seem to idolise Ronnie & think what he done was heroic & that the pub owner deserved a chelsea smile for calling him a kid. It makes me speechless, really.

+1

seanx
01-11-2013, 07:14 PM
Answer my questions instead of the verbal abuse !


Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

Who were the Met collecting racketeering money from innocent shopkeepers for once the twins were banged up ?

Your resorting to abuse rather than deal with my questions speaks for itself. You are a little --------- ---------- yourself, but I don't have to put that in my comments. !

And for your information, yes, I am serious - why ? Aren't you ?
Oh, of course, you are just full of yourself.



So YOU are telling us that they DIDN'T run a violent protection racket??

When even they - and their gang members didn't deny that!

Come on!


You think they ran just a medium size business?????


Where do you think they got ALL THE MONEY to buy all these nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips??????


Did Ronnie work a lot of overtime as hair stylist?

Now you tell us - how do YOU know that none of the businesses they
preyed on were innocent?


All the pubs, shops and factories in the East End are crooks ........except of course for the Krays!!!

The fact that you CAN'T answer any of these questions shows us that you are living in fantasy land!!!

denis
09-11-2013, 01:36 PM
So YOU are telling us that they DIDN'T run a violent protection racket??

When even they - and their gang members didn't deny that!

Come on!


You think they ran just a medium size business?????


Where do you think they got ALL THE MONEY to buy all these nightclubs. bars, casinos, and restaurants/fish and chips??????


Did Ronnie work a lot of overtime as hair stylist?

Now you tell us - how do YOU know that none of the businesses they
preyed on were innocent?


All the pubs, shops and factories in the East End are crooks ........except of course for the Krays!!!

The fact that you CAN'T answer any of these questions shows us that you are living in fantasy land!!!



Where in the East End were you living when the Krays ruled the streets, and how old were you ?
Where did you get your information from ?

Name me one innocent person that had to pay money to the Krays.

Why were the streets flooded with drugs once the twins were banged up ?

Why were they attributed with crimes they did not commit ?

Why was there a sudden influx of Italian businesses in London once they were banged up ?

Who were the Met collecting protection money from innocent shopkeepers for once the twins were banged up ?

denis
14-11-2013, 07:12 PM
Denis

While in prison they made millions simply selling their stories.


Really ? Millions of what ?