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View Full Version : Speed cameras "could be illegal"


dreamweaver
03-01-2009, 06:10 AM
This isn't directly a Freeman on the Land issue but I think it will be of interest all the same...

Lifted from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/4059922/Speed-cameras-could-be-illegal.html


At least 80 cases are in the pipeline in which drivers will argue that evidence was gathered unlawfully gathered because the cameras have never been given the necessary parliamentary approval.

Should they be successful, it would pave the way for an avalanche of claims from tens of thousands motorists who have been fined and had points put on their licence.

Within the next few months courts in England and Scotland will decide whether motorists were punished unlawfully because of a drafting error dating back to the early 1990s.

“This is of major public importance,” said Kieran Henry, a specialist road traffic solicitor from Stockport, involved in several of the cases.

“We believe that the Tory Government left a major loophole when they changed motoring law.

“Despite hundreds more cameras being introduced neither they nor Labour have ever sorted this out.”

More than £100 million a year is raised from speed camera fines, with the cash going to the Treasury, leading to claims that the programme is little more than a “stealth tax” on motorists.

One estimate puts the number of motorists who have received fines as a result of cameras as high as eight million.

The legal challenges come amid a growing political backlash against the speed cameras across the country.

Tory-controlled Swindon council has refused to continue funding the cameras and another Conservative authority, Northamptonshire, has announced a review of its scheme.

The legal challenge centres on a change to motoring law when the Tories were in power.

Up until 1992, when the speed camera programme was in its infancy, devices only needed approval by Home Office scientists to be considered legal.

Lawyers for the rebel motorists claim that the position changed when the 1991 Road Traffic Act became law and required parliamentary backing for new cameras.

However over the past 15 years this has not happened once - meaning the status of virtually all of the 6,000 speed cameras currently on Britain’s roads is in question.

It is understood that the Home Office believes that blanket approval was given to all speed cameras by Michael Howard when he was Home Secretary.

But this is being challenged in the courts, with lawyers for the motorists arguing that Mr Howard’s approval only applied to technology which was in operation at the time.

Any devices brought in since then, it is claimed, should have been subject to approval by MPs.

Should the motorists win, evidence from the vast majority of cameras on Britain’s roads would be struck out until the Government rectified the situation.

The Department for Transport defended the speed camera programme.

“Safety Cameras play a substantial role in saving lives. Independent research has shown that 1,745 fewer people are killed and seriously injured at camera sites each year.

“The Government is clear that the best safety camera is the one which takes no fines at all, but succeeds in deterring drivers from speeding.”

yozhik
03-01-2009, 02:59 PM
That's fucking brilliant! :D :D :D

Now let's see them squirm as they also have to stump up for the cash for the refunds, because we all know they cannot go back to the corporation that owns these laws!

FUCKING BRILLIANT !!

twats

pleasuredome
03-01-2009, 04:48 PM
“The Government is clear that the best safety camera is the one which takes no fines at all, but succeeds in deterring drivers from speeding.”


LOL! great, lets stop the fines then. :D

pleasuredome
03-01-2009, 04:49 PM
That's fucking brilliant! :D :D :D

Now let's see them squirm as they also have to stump up for the cash for the refunds, because we all know they cannot go back to the corporation that owns these laws!

FUCKING BRILLIANT !!

twats

oh its going to be a day to celebrate! :cool:

1eyeopen
03-01-2009, 05:30 PM
I drive, i have for 5 years now. I do more than the speed limit, not excessive speeding but speeding none the less and i have NO POINTS all because i have eyes that are able to see big yellow cameras and a foot that knows where the brake pedal is.

Cameras are a pain yes. But if you cant A) Stick to the speed limit in first place or B) are driving so fast you cant slow enough in time or C) Aren't paying enough attention to see the big yellow camera then quite frankly YOU DESERVE TO BE FINED.

If you are so incapable of driving that you happen to be caught continualy speeding and are banned then you DESERVE IT. It's through your own ineptitude and i dont want to share the road with such incompetent drivers. I have no sympathy, it's you're fault NOT THE CAMERAS.

konnster
03-01-2009, 05:38 PM
Denmark just announced that they are going bring in 60.000 new CCTV cameras in the country for the year 2009.

increasing the number of cameras from 300.000 to 360.000, I wonder if they will do the same in 2010 , 2011, and 2012 ?

dreamweaver
03-01-2009, 06:55 PM
I drive, i have for 5 years now. I do more than the speed limit, not excessive speeding but speeding none the less and i have NO POINTS all because i have eyes that are able to see big yellow cameras and a foot that knows where the brake pedal is.

Cameras are a pain yes. But if you cant A) Stick to the speed limit in first place or B) are driving so fast you cant slow enough in time or C) Aren't paying enough attention to see the big yellow camera then quite frankly YOU DESERVE TO BE FINED.

If you are so incapable of driving that you happen to be caught continualy speeding and are banned then you DESERVE IT. It's through your own ineptitude and i dont want to share the road with such incompetent drivers. I have no sympathy, it's you're fault NOT THE CAMERAS.
Whoa, check out Little Mr/Ms Perfect!

http://i32.tinypic.com/256gzme.jpg

The vast majority of speed cameras in this country are in fact laser guns operated by people hiding in vans or behind bushes. The regulations are continually flouted and the scamera "partnerships" got away with them because the magistrates courts also got a cut of the fines! This has now been changed, and now some authorities' attitude has changed, but many people were caught out by these things. What is worse is that the laser guns have been proven to be inaccurate - you can distort the reading by moving the laser and can make a stationary brick wall have a reading of 60mph. This has been demonstrated on BBC television and I have a copy of expert testimony on the defects of the LTI 20-20 and ProLaser guns by an expert witness. But the government refuses to make the police scrap these laser guns because they know it would cost them millions in refunded fines.

So you happened to drive in areas which relied on yellow boxes in plain view, big whoop. Other areas have been far less scrupulous. The fact is that scameras have been a monumental FAILURE in terms of road safety - the fatalities figures are no better now than when cameras were introduced in the early 90s - that's despite thousands of cameras being on the roads. Speed is only a major contributory cause in 6% of accidents - that was established in the government's own Transport Research Laboratory's report TRL 323. Don't be a sheeple all your life.

resistance
03-01-2009, 07:21 PM
Scamera..i like that:D

1eyeopen
05-01-2009, 02:46 PM
Whoa, check out Little Mr/Ms Perfect!

http://i32.tinypic.com/256gzme.jpg

The vast majority of speed cameras in this country are in fact laser guns operated by people hiding in vans or behind bushes. The regulations are continually flouted and the scamera "partnerships" got away with them because the magistrates courts also got a cut of the fines! This has now been changed, and now some authorities' attitude has changed, but many people were caught out by these things. What is worse is that the laser guns have been proven to be inaccurate - you can distort the reading by moving the laser and can make a stationary brick wall have a reading of 60mph. This has been demonstrated on BBC television and I have a copy of expert testimony on the defects of the LTI 20-20 and ProLaser guns by an expert witness. But the government refuses to make the police scrap these laser guns because they know it would cost them millions in refunded fines.

So you happened to drive in areas which relied on yellow boxes in plain view, big whoop. Other areas have been far less scrupulous. The fact is that scameras have been a monumental FAILURE in terms of road safety - the fatalities figures are no better now than when cameras were introduced in the early 90s - that's despite thousands of cameras being on the roads. Speed is only a major contributory cause in 6% of accidents - that was established in the government's own Transport Research Laboratory's report TRL 323. Don't be a sheeple all your life.



I presume you've been caught speeding.......and it wasn't your fault:rolleyes:

dreamweaver
05-01-2009, 02:55 PM
There are cameras in vans parked up by roads occasionaly but they are not hidden. They are big white or silver vans with either orange and blue or yellow and blue sqaures on them, they have in big writing on the side "POLICE MOBILE SPEED CAMERA" and a big picture of a speed camera sign on the back. Forget speeding, if you cant see the vans you should not be driving.
Humberside police were using an unmarked blue van on the M180 (yes, a motorway) that was only visible when you came over a bridge - and you were already nicked the moment you saw the van. There were no camera warning signs beforehand and this was a stretch of straight three-lane motorway with the usual speed limit (it was not a roadworks with a 50mph limit, which is an entirely different matter).

All of this was in flagrant breach of the rules governing safety camera 'partnerships' at the time - but they got away with it because the magistrates' courts were themselves in the partnership and getting a percentage from the fines - a travesty of justice.

And no, I have never been convicted of "speeding". I have helped a number of people successfully contest their tickets though. :cool:

1eyeopen
05-01-2009, 03:13 PM
Humberside police were using an unmarked blue van on the M180 (yes, a motorway) that was only visible when you came over a bridge - and you were already nicked the moment you saw the van. There were no camera warning signs beforehand and this was a stretch of straight three-lane motorway with the usual speed limit (it was not a roadworks with a 50mph limit, which is an entirely different matter).

All of this was in flagrant breach of the rules governing safety camera 'partnerships' at the time - but they got away with it because the magistrates' courts were themselves in the partnership and getting a percentage from the fines - a travesty of justice.

And no, I have never been convicted of "speeding". I have helped a number of people successfully contest their tickets though. :cool:

OK. I believe you. Maybe i've been lucky up to now, 5 years aint long is really is. I would of been caught out there.

[B]"And no, I have never been convicted of "speeding". I have helped a number of people successfully contest their tickets though.


That's cool. If i'm caught i'll pm you,:)