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View Full Version : Halal meat should be banned


steppewar
31-12-2008, 05:56 PM
As there are already laws in the UK against animal cruelty, I cannot understand why the evil process of slitting a fully conscious animals throat until it bleeds to death is legal.

Any Muslim who condone's this practice should hang his head in shame.

It seem's now in the UK that anything can be justified in the name of religion.

I haven't been to ASDA for 4 years now, simply because they stock Halal meat.

I urge everyone to boycott ASDA, and Walmart, as they own ASDA until they no longer stock this 'religious' meat.

http://www.petitiononline.com/endhalal/petition.html

jojo
31-12-2008, 06:00 PM
in full agreement with you.

chris
31-12-2008, 06:10 PM
I urge everyone to boycott ASDA, and Walmart, as they own ASDA until they no longer stock this 'religious' meat.


Good for you.

You should write to ASDA and say pretty much what you have said here as they don't have ears everywhere.

One of the biggest secrets that top chains keep is that they fear boycots more than they do anything else.

lottie
31-12-2008, 06:13 PM
People have been slitting the throats of animals for thousands of years, slaughter houses in this country hardly offer an animal a comfy room with lots of magazines while they eat their last meal before peacefully injecting them with a death serum, eating meat is not a nice process, no muslim 'enjoys' the process of slitting an animals throat, they do it because that is the way they believe their Lord asked them to prepare their meat...he said something along the lines of 'Do not eat the flesh of an animal with the lifeforce (BLOOD) still in it'.
Many religions such as jewish ask that the meat be Kosha (blessed/prepared in a particular way) not just the muslim faith.

I know its hard for us to understand when we feel so empathetic toward animals but WE have domesticated them, they were just part of the food chain but WE grew close to them, thus creating a relationship with them. They are food unfortunately! Look at the perfect balance of the Food Chain....

The way we treat our animals in the west is far more concerning , the way they die is short and inevitable but the way they are kept in this country is sick, (chickens for instance) locked up in barns/cages never seeing the light of day, being fed so fast their bodies cannot catch up so they have weak bones so they drag their legs in their own urine and cause burns to their knees, then we eat that shit!

At least in eastern countries where an animal is killed, it is respected and it is honoured for giving up its life to feed humans. It has a natural comfortable life well fed and looked after and then it is used as food as part of the natural food chain! They are dead in minutes!

You could say 'whats a 'nice way' to kill an animal?'

You could say all lions/predators should be shot or made extinct because they tear their victims apart viciously. Its nature!

chris
31-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Write letters of complain to:

Customer Services
ASDA House
Southbank
Great Wilson Street
Leeds
LS11 5AD

thorleyart
31-12-2008, 06:19 PM
I've seen footage in Britsh slaughter houses where they slice the cows throat from ear to ear....

so that's humain?

lottie
31-12-2008, 06:20 PM
I've seen footage in Britsh slaughter houses where they slice the cows throat from ear to ear....

so that's humain?

Yes much of our meat is prepared the same way but becuse it hasnt got a 'Halal' sticker on it- it's ok?!!

impermanence
31-12-2008, 06:22 PM
American slaughter houses slit the throat of cows, how about attacking them first as they're probably a much bigger industry capable of actually changing practises with relative ease.

drakul
31-12-2008, 06:24 PM
People have been slitting the throats of animals for thousands of years, slaughter houses in this country hardly offer an animal a comfy room with lots of magazines while they eat their last meal before peacefully injecting them with a death serum, eating meat is not a nice process, no muslim 'enjoys' the process of slitting an animals throat, they do it because that is the way they believe their Lord asked them to prepare their meat...he said something along the lines of 'Do not eat the flesh of an animal with the lifeforce (BLOOD) still in it'.
Many religions such as jewish ask that the meat be Kosha (blessed/prepared in a particular way) not just the muslim faith.

I know its hard for us to understand when we feel so empathetic toward animals but WE have domesticated them, they were just part of the food chain but WE grew close to them, thus creating a relationship with them. They are food unfortunately! Look at the perfect balance of the Food Chain....

The way we treat our animals in the west is far more concerning , the way they die is short and inevitable but the way they are kept in this country is sick, (chickens for instance) locked up in barns/cages never seeing the light of day, being fed so fast their bodies cannot catch up so they have weak bones so they drag their legs in their own urine and cause burns to their knees, then we eat that shit!

At least in eastern countries where an animal is killed, it is respected and it is honoured for giving up its life to feed humans. It has a natural comfortable life well fed and looked after and then it is used as food as part of the natural food chain! They are dead in minutes!

You could say 'whats a 'nice way' to kill an animal?'

You could say all lions/predators should be shot or made extinct because they tear their victims apart viciously. Its nature!

Halal meat is a continuation of the old practice of BLOOD SACRIFICE. It is sickening and disgusting. And where did you get the idea that `animals are respected in the East'? Have you lived in Egypt, Ethiopia or other African/ME countries? (Besides Londonistan of course)

armoured_amazon
31-12-2008, 06:27 PM
As there are already laws in the UK against animal cruelty, I cannot understand why the evil process of slitting a fully conscious animals throat until it bleeds to death is legal.

Any Muslim who condone's this practice should hang his head in shame.

It seem's now in the UK that anything can be justified in the name of religion.

I haven't been to ASDA for 4 years now, simply because they stock Halal meat.

I urge everyone to boycott ASDA, and Walmart, as they own ASDA until they no longer stock this 'religious' meat.

http://www.petitiononline.com/endhalal/petition.html

You think our slaughterhouses are better?

lottie
31-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Halal meat is a continuation of the old practice of BLOOD SACRIFICE. It is sickening and disgusting. And where did you get the idea that `animals are respected in the East'? Have you lived in Egypt, Ethiopia or other African/ME countries? (Besides Londonistan of course)

No but i have been to some of those countries and they do respect and give thanks for their animals the trouble is the humans themselves have far more to worry about than the treatment of their animals when their govs are so corrupt they can barely feed themselves etc etc....we all live a cushty lifestyle over here where the least we can worry about is 'how an animal is slaughtered'. There's no use attacking the East or any particular religion or race or group of people, you will find cruel bastards in any part of the world! We in the west are just as bad - just we take our meat off the shelves in nice clean packets having never seen the animal nor caring where its come from OR how it was killed!

thetonic
31-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Halal meat is a continuation of the old practice of BLOOD SACRIFICE. I

There you have it... Partake in meat consumption at the risk to your health and conscious

impermanence
31-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Shocking PETA videos of western slaughter house practises:

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html

thetonic
31-12-2008, 06:37 PM
Dont forget the massive amount of government subsidies to the meat industry in order to allow for 'cheap meat'

Ask yourself why they would do that?

Is it because the govment lubs you?...

drakul
31-12-2008, 06:38 PM
No but i have been to some of those countries and they do respect and give thanks for their animals the trouble is the humans themselves have far more to worry about than the treatment of their animals when their govs are so corrupt they can barely feed themselves etc etc....we all live a cushty lifestyle over here where the least we can worry about is 'how an animal is slaughtered'. There's no use attacking the East or any particular religion or race or group of people, you will find cruel bastards in any part of the world! We in the west are just as bad - just we take our meat off the shelves in nice clean packets having never seen the animal nor caring where its come from OR how it was killed!

This thread is about Halal meat from animals slaughtered in the West not the East. I lived in North Africa and I never once saw anyone thanking an animal for anything. As a whole I would say Muslims are crueler to animals than anyone but Asians. Look at the way dogs and cats are treated in both those regions. We should not allow Muslim blood sacrificial practices to influence our anti-cruelty laws which took literally thousands of years to enact.

steppewar
31-12-2008, 07:29 PM
You think our slaughterhouses are better?

They are less cruel than the Halal method of killing. At least in slaughterhouses, the animals are stunned unconscious before they are killed.

who elsie
31-12-2008, 07:44 PM
The practise of eating meat at all, no matter how it is prepared, is patently unspiritual. I have never understood how religious people equate the slaughter of innocent animals for food with spiritual practise. True spirituality recognises the oneness of all life forms. We are all connected. We are all one. So vegetarianism is the only option if you want to develop spiritually.

rhydra
31-12-2008, 07:49 PM
Halal, Kosher, other means, even "our" means aren't that good, the way the animals are treated prior to slaughter. Anyway, I heard on a radio programme about "traditional" methods of slaughter as practised in some countries. The animals takes about ten minutes to die, they can't die too quick or all the blood isn't removed, the main reason for the practice is to remove the blood as it can go off when stored and render the meat inedible. These days we have freezers and fridges, no one told the religious books that.

thorleyart
31-12-2008, 08:05 PM
They are less cruel than the Halal method of killing. At least in slaughterhouses, the animals are stunned unconscious before they are killed.

yeah, in theory, until you watch undercover footage of slaughter houses and they are just as barbaric as any halal method.

brainfreeze
31-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Here we go, meet your meat. Halaal, kosher or simply meat eater, you're as bad as each other.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

seercirra
31-12-2008, 08:12 PM
i distinctly remember watching a documentary about the differences between halal and western methods, and drawing the conclusion that the halal way is much more natural way of death.
westerners say that because the animal is electrocuted before death then it doesnt feel anything, to me that seems like simple torture before death.

would you rather be blessed then have your throat slit or be electrocuted and then shot?

chipstyxx
31-12-2008, 08:52 PM
Surely whenever we eat the flesh of an animal it is a kind of blood sacrifice?

I agree with Lottie here. Any kind of slaughter is distressing for the animal. Halal is no worse or better than any other method. We like to think that our western way of slaughtering is quick and clean, that is not the case. Animals are required to be stunned but factory production does not alow care to be taken over this. Think of working on a production line day in, day out. It would be boring as hell and mistakes are made, alot of the animals are not stunned and their throats are cut anyway ( there are targets to be met !) What kind of people work in our slaughter houses? High achievers, caring individuals who value every form of life, animal rights campaigners? - no of course not. Many of them couldn't give a shit, or even worse like to make their day go quicker by having 'fun' with the animals they are to slaughter. The average person sees the shrink wrapped meat in the super market. No hunting, no gutting, no interaction at all with the animal.

Even if you are vegetarian you are not absolved from all guilt. The dairy industry uses and abuses cows appalingly, impregnating them until the end of their useful life, removing their calves, constant infections and pain from being milked. The egg industry throws away millions of male chicks each year, they are thrown into rubbish bags alive to suffocate, or into machines that macerate them.

So just out of interest Steppewar, are you a vegan? ...or a member of the Jain religion who believes not even the tiniest insect should be killed.... or do you just think that you are morally superior to the other people caught up in this physical reality?

Sorry if this seems harsh but my guess is that you have never actually seen an animal killed, it is not pleasant whatever way you do it.

zarah
31-12-2008, 08:54 PM
My nan wont buy meat from Tescos because she bought some pork chops one day, got them home and saw they came from POLAND!!!!!:eek:


As far as I can see, all slaughter is a vile business. If youre worried about it, make a stand and stop eating meat.

steppewar
31-12-2008, 09:43 PM
Surely whenever we eat the flesh of an animal it is a kind of blood sacrifice?

I agree with Lottie here. Any kind of slaughter is distressing for the animal. Halal is no worse or better than any other method. We like to think that our western way of slaughtering is quick and clean, that is not the case. Animals are required to be stunned but factory production does not alow care to be taken over this. Think of working on a production line day in, day out. It would be boring as hell and mistakes are made, alot of the animals are not stunned and their throats are cut anyway ( there are targets to be met !) What kind of people work in our slaughter houses? High achievers, caring individuals who value every form of life, animal rights campaigners? - no of course not. Many of them couldn't give a shit, or even worse like to make their day go quicker by having 'fun' with the animals they are to slaughter. The average person sees the shrink wrapped meat in the super market. No hunting, no gutting, no interaction at all with the animal.

Even if you are vegetarian you are not absolved from all guilt. The dairy industry uses and abuses cows appalingly, impregnating them until the end of their useful life, removing their calves, constant infections and pain from being milked. The egg industry throws away millions of male chicks each year, they are thrown into rubbish bags alive to suffocate, or into machines that macerate them.

So just out of interest Steppewar, are you a vegan? ...or a member of the Jain religion who believes not even the tiniest insect should be killed.... or do you just think that you are morally superior to the other people caught up in this physical reality?

Sorry if this seems harsh but my guess is that you have never actually seen an animal killed, it is not pleasant whatever way you do it.

I eat a lot of fish, but not much meat. If I had to kill it or abuse it myself, I would go vegan overnight.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if all meat products were made illegal.

rhydra
01-01-2009, 12:17 AM
My nan wont buy meat from Tescos because she bought some pork chops one day, got them home and saw they came from POLAND!!!!!:eek:


As far as I can see, all slaughter is a vile business. If youre worried about it, make a stand and stop eating meat.

I did, in 1989, then you find out that many other things you never knew about contain meat, animal products, stuff that's scraped up from the abotoir floor. Take mints for instance, did you know that they contain gelatin? Cheese, much contains rennet, the lining of a calf's stomach, usually slaughtered as a by product of the dairy industry. Sort of disturbing really, the milk from a cow might be mixed with the dismembered body parts of her calf.

gorgeousgertie
01-01-2009, 01:36 AM
ha, theres the old saying ''meat is murder dairy is rape'' still apt all fits all shit all poison at whatever level you look at it.

If people dont know what they are eating then thats interesting innit.......

not all mints contain gelatine tho and not all cheese isnt veggie however that dont mean its cruelty free animal wise.

dynamicwiseman
01-01-2009, 01:45 AM
This thread is like reading something on Stormfront, truly disappointed that people are coming here and saying nasty things about Muslims and meat eaters. Why are we judging the Muslims when 6 billion people on this planet eat meat. If you are a Veggie that's fine, be a Veggie but don't try and judge other people simply becuase they choose to eat meat.

I thought we were above this sort of thing? :mad:

gorgeousgertie
01-01-2009, 01:48 AM
avatar judgers on here too hehehehehehehehehe!

steevo
01-01-2009, 01:49 AM
This thread is like reading something on Stormfront, truly disappointed that people are coming here and saying nasty things about Muslims and meat eaters. Why are we judging the Muslims when 6 billion people on this planet eat meat. If you are a Veggie that's fine, be a Veggie but don't try and judge other people simply becuase they choose to eat meat.

I thought we were above this sort of thing? :mad:

It's a purposely provoctive thread to designed to keep us busy, and to waste our time. You will get used to it on here :(

kblood
01-01-2009, 01:52 AM
Here in the western world we used to slice throats of the animals as well. Since we dont know exactly how death is, then how can we know what kind of death is the best or worst? Is it a fast death or a slow death? Of course if it is slow and painfull then its probably agony, but having the throat cut, its quite likely they leave this world actually knowing that they are dying.

If there is any kind of afterlife would we like the last moment of memory to be one of a single shot of pain or one where you know this is death? I guess it depends on wether or not you believe there is anything after.

No matter how animals are killed, I bet it isnt something they enjoy. There are worse ways of killing animals. Some use hammers, others use other painfull ways worse than a hamas slaughter of an animal. To be honest I dont think the ways UK slaughter hauses are killing their animals are more humane. I guess thats a sad thing, but killing is killing.

Reading a bit more through the thread, it seems that I am not the only one with this viewon it.

magenta
01-01-2009, 02:52 AM
People have been slitting the throats of animals for thousands of years, slaughter houses in this country hardly offer an animal a comfy room with lots of magazines while they eat their last meal before peacefully injecting them with a death serum, eating meat is not a nice process, no muslim 'enjoys' the process of slitting an animals throat, they do it because that is the way they believe their Lord asked them to prepare their meat...he said something along the lines of 'Do not eat the flesh of an animal with the lifeforce (BLOOD) still in it'.
Many religions such as jewish ask that the meat be Kosha (blessed/prepared in a particular way) not just the muslim faith.

I know its hard for us to understand when we feel so empathetic toward animals but WE have domesticated them, they were just part of the food chain but WE grew close to them, thus creating a relationship with them. They are food unfortunately! Look at the perfect balance of the Food Chain....

The way we treat our animals in the west is far more concerning , the way they die is short and inevitable but the way they are kept in this country is sick, (chickens for instance) locked up in barns/cages never seeing the light of day, being fed so fast their bodies cannot catch up so they have weak bones so they drag their legs in their own urine and cause burns to their knees, then we eat that shit!

At least in eastern countries where an animal is killed, it is respected and it is honoured for giving up its life to feed humans. It has a natural comfortable life well fed and looked after and then it is used as food as part of the natural food chain! They are dead in minutes!

You could say 'whats a 'nice way' to kill an animal?'

You could say all lions/predators should be shot or made extinct because they tear their victims apart viciously. Its nature!

It's not a very good argument to point at human history, which is saturated with humanity's capability of unimaginable evil.

"Look at the perfect balance of the Food Chain...."

How is it perfect when humans are the cancer in the food chain? They are ruining nature and heartlessly murdering every living thing people can think of putting in their mouth. Millions of animals are hanging upside down with their legs locked in place, waiting for their life to be ended by someone who thinks they have the right to choose for them. Humans certainly are not a part of nature at this point, and saying "Its nature!" is wrong because humans are destroying nature right now. Humanity as a whole does not understand what place they should take to fix things. Many are driven by plain ignorance, egoism and a great lack of heart.

brainfreeze
01-01-2009, 02:59 AM
It's a purposely provoctive thread to designed to keep us busy, and to waste our time. You will get used to it on here :(

Maybe not?

I've read on this forum about the fireworks displays being rituals performed by the elite right under our noses. This on the forum is taken is gospel.

Bring in the slaughter of animals and hey back off kids, we'll eat meat if we want shut the fuck up.

Ummmm....what sort of energy does the distress of the dying beasts create? Is this not another under-cover sacrifice to some unbeknown God? And if not, how so? I would have thought blood was more sacrid than gun powder!

Did anyone watch the video I posted, meet your meat?

Hey, tuck into a juicy steak. Enjoy!

We're simply here to distract and detract.

Tsk!

dynamicwiseman
01-01-2009, 03:33 AM
It's a purposely provoctive thread to designed to keep us busy, and to waste our time. You will get used to it on here :(

I know what you mean, I've been reading these forums for a while before i decided to join. I have the feeling, even here people can forget that we still carry many of the prejudices that we ourselves are trying to overcoming. :)

drakul
01-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Halal meat is often slaughtered by individuals who buy the lamb or the calf and slaughter the animal themselves. This is a BACK DOOR attempt to bring back the practice of religious BLOOD SACRIFICE.

I saw this practice of religious slaughter of animals in Ethiopia and it was sickening. People's front yards were literally soaked in blood. We should not blindly accept this degrading cruel practice. Christians BANNED BLOOD SACRIFICE in 325 AD because they viewed it as attempting to propitiate demonic entities. And it was and IS.


Parents angered as every pupil is given halal school meals

By ANDREW BUCKWELL
Last updated at 21:44 16 December 2006

Kids: Uproar as mixed faith state schools only serve Halal meat.

Halal meat is being served to pupils in state schools without their knowledge, even if they believe the religious slaughter is cruel.

Parents have reacted furiously after being sent letters telling them their children's school dinners have been all-halal for 'some time'.

To conform with Jewish and Muslim religious tradition, animals are prepared for halal products by having their throats slit while conscious - a method many people believe is inhumane and which the RSPCA has condemned.

The meat was introduced at four schools in the Reading area with a high proportion of Muslim pupils. But parents of non-Muslim pupils - between 20 and 50 per cent of the schools' roll -say they were not consulted.

Coach driver Andrew Weston, 37, who has a son and daughter at St John's primary school, said: "We received a letter saying only halal meat was being served and had been for some time. I was shocked.

"The way the animals are killed for this meat is barbaric and cruel. Our children should have a choice."

Abdul Dean, ethnic minorities officer for the Christian Peoples Alliance, said: "Christian children should be given an equal chance to have non-halal meat. The school should have explained the situation to parents at the outset."

Last month, a head teacher in Rotherham caused an outcry when she said she intended to replace traditional turkey with halal chicken to create an 'integrated Christmas'. Jan Charters, head of Oakwood School, backed down after complaints by MPs.

A spokesperson for Reading Borough Council said: "The decision was taken several years ago. Schools thought it was the appropriate choice for their multi-cultural community. We are increasing options at the four schools by offering fish each day."

The other schools where only halal meat is served are New Town, Oxford Road and Alfred Sutton primary schools.

Earlier this year, an RSPCA pamphlet stated: "Muslim communities in the UK should review their slaughter practices. Research demonstrates that slaughter of any animal without stunning can cause unnecessary suffering."

alfrmo
01-01-2009, 10:21 PM
I must admit, I eat meat, but when I witness how all animals are exploited, and in my opinion it doesn't matter whether it is done in the name of some religious ritual or not, you are still subjecting a sentient beast to fear, torture and death.
The question I always ask myself is, would I kill animals for food if I had other sources to eat? and the resounding answer is no! and yet I am so hypocritical as to get someone else to do my murdering for me? it isn't right, and I am very very seriously considering ditching meat in '09.

delamo1999
01-01-2009, 10:47 PM
I must admit, I eat meat, but when I witness how all animals are exploited, and in my opinion it doesn't matter whether it is done in the name of some religious ritual or not, you are still subjecting a sentient beast to fear, torture and death.
The question I always ask myself is, would I kill animals for food if I had other sources to eat? and the resounding answer is no! and yet I am so hypocritical as to get someone else to do my murdering for me? it isn't right, and I am very very seriously considering ditching meat in '09.


I totally support your proposal to ditch meat. I have been meat free since '85and Vegan for over 4 years. I can honestly say that I have felt more cleaner and have more compassion because of it.

I am absolutely sickened by the way how animals are treated in factory farms. Corporations like Mcdonalds and Carl's Jr. have no compassion for animals either.

who elsie
01-01-2009, 11:06 PM
If you haven't yet made up your mind about whether eating meat is morally and spiritually wrong, take a look at this video. It should help you make up your mind.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

brainfreeze
01-01-2009, 11:08 PM
If you haven't yet made up your mind about whether eating meat is morally and spiritually wrong, take a look at this video. It should help you make up your mind.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4


lol...I posted that earlier in this thread. I don't think anyone has bothered to watch it.

who elsie
01-01-2009, 11:11 PM
lol...I posted that earlier in this thread. I don't think anyone has bothered to watch it.

Sorry mate, I didn't realise.

People need to see what the meat industry is really like, so it won't do any harm to post it again.

eternal_spirit
01-01-2009, 11:12 PM
Also if you haven't made up your mind about Islam and Judaism, maybe the sacrifice of animals may make you realise how sick these religions are and are a danger to the whole of humanity.

Genital mutilation ffs, if they can do that to their women and baby boys then do you think they care about a slow agonising death of animals.

They can take their foreign religions back to where they started we don't need these lies they cause nothing but trouble and divide.

gorgeousgertie
02-01-2009, 12:29 AM
meat means murder (Conflict'81)

I'm walking through the grey walkway of the city
And through the brightly lit shops and supermarkets
And I'm walking through the fields of the innocent
Passing by the fairytale farm
Balancing on the brittle edge of a short life
That is ended by the knife

The factory's still churning out, all processed, packed and neat
An obscure butchered substance and the label reads "meat"
Hidden behind false names such as pork, ham, veal and beef
An eye's an eye; a life's a life, the now forgotten belief
Yet, everyday production lines are feeding out this farce
To end up on your table, then shat out of your arse

Yet, still you're queuing, and still you're viewing
Sawing out limbs just right for stewing
Carcasses piled up in a heap
Sort, soft, juicy chunks from freezers deep
Well, can't you see that that juice is blood?
From newborn throats, red rivers flood
Blood from young hearts blood from the vein
Your blood, their blood, serves the same

Now you're at the table, sitting, grinning
Sitting there eating, you never realise the filling
It's served upon a sterile plate, you don't think of the killing
The furthest your brain takes you, "is it for frying or grilling?"
You moan about the seal cull, about the whale slaughter
But does it really matter whether it lives on land or water?
You've never had a fur coat; you think it's cruel to the mink
Well, how about the cow, pig or sheep. Don't they make you think?
Since the day that you were you born, you've never been told the missing link?

As I'm gazing at the baneful products
And from behind the bright colours and false smiles
I can smell the lingering death
And see the decaying skins
Forth from the green grass
The pungent smell of decomposing meat
That penetrates the walls of the kitchen
And from the red lorries on the black
In unison with the red lights and the red juice

Yet, still you're queuing, and still you're viewing
Sawing out limbs just right for stewing
Carcasses piled up in a heap
Sort, soft, juicy chunks from freezers deep
Well, can't you see that that juice is blood?
From newborn throats, red rivers flood
Blood from young hearts blood from the vein
Your blood, their blood, serves the same

The Sunday kitchen spills out the stench of the abattoir
The butcher's blade glistening in the eye of the 'master'
The deadened life of a baby sits upon the plate
The spilt guts falling from the chute to the basting tin
The carcass from the carcrash
In the age of the train-direct from the gates of Sobivor

artistuta
02-01-2009, 10:49 PM
Well how should i begin... First of all pardon for my english:) im kind a new in this forum... in fact its my first post....Im 23 y.o. ,university student from Turkey which is a muslim country some of you may know...

Here's the story:
About a month ago the "kurban bayram" aka muslim religious fest in all over the islamic world was celebrated.(you know where the families cut the sheeps and "supposed to" share the meats with the poor people and their neighbours)
And the city councils allowed the car wash centers to cut the sheeps in car wahing areas(i know it sounds weird :confused:) cos you know they can clean all the blood with the water etc.

The reason i was there cos the air reports said therell be snow in the next days and i haven't changed my tires to snow tires.They have all the equipment to change my tires.
So the tire changing took a lot of time with some problems(which is another subject)
But while i was waiting there they brought one of the sheep over the car washing area. i said to myself: " Well i have always seen these things on tv as illegal butchers videos... lets see if i can take it while i was looking with sheep in face to face:eek:"

then the butcher came and started to pray...you know "god please make this meat halal".(aka blessed) etc...

then started to cut its throat with the knife and the animal was struggling really really hard. albeit its legs were tied. I think the knife was a little bit blunt, im not really sure.

then i turned my head, couldn't stand the breath sound that came throuh the throat :( and i said to myself in my head: " you have look at it man,:( you have to look at it and remember it at all time cos you must understand that this is an exact scene of how a beautiful religion that provokes spirituality turned into a satanistic ritual. So you could stop this one day when you have the power for it."

And the people around the sheep and the butcher saw my face in grief cos i could literally feel the animals' pain and the shock and the feeling of paralize, losing his concious etc. and they kind of ashamed while we had an eye contact.

I m not sure if all of you know but islam and kuran says "you must not harm the animal in any matter" (of course without exceptions like surviving from attack hunger etc. you know...)

and i know that the some proffessional sheep cutters in my country uses electric shocks to first faint the animal before cut it. So it doesn't feel the pain. How much of our meat industries in the world is using this technique? Now thats the real question!!!Not the halal meat!!!

My point is that how much expensive to get an electronic fainter to buy so all those animals would feel all those pain. These people i saw in that car wash, They don't care. And whats worse is that they don't even realize that the more they see and use this blood rituals the more their souls are becoming more blunt. Cos they were uneducated!!!Not because of the religion!!!! Do you know that in some countries they even put their finger on the blood and touch their forehead to have a bloody dot on their forehead? That how to manipulate religions from spirituality to satanistic rituals...

To DRAKUL: "Halal meat is often slaughtered by individuals who buy the lamb or the calf and slaughter the animal themselves. This is a BACK DOOR attempt to bring back the practice of religious BLOOD SACRIFICE." Couldn't more agree but
I must add: Do you think that the all those companies in meat industries are different?? Do you think that KFC, Burger king mcdonalds uses anesthises to the animal before the cutting them, Im not really sure!! :) Im also seriously considering about becoming vegetarian these days

In addition there are millions of people dying in africa or even next to your house there many homeless people hungry cold etc. why must we all eat meat at that specific week while all those are dying in hunger... I mean there are also a lot of ready meat in the markets. Why we have to cut these animals? Go to Wall-MArt and buy some meat for gods sake!!!!

Plus in turkey, almost every family is cutting one sheep and im sure they are not giving part of it to the poor people but giving to their neighbors but the neighbors are also cutting a sheep too. and they gives meat to them too. In other words you cut animal and get 50 kilos meat. lets say you give20 kilos away to your neighbours and you get from neighbours about 20 kilos meat back .(in addition the parts you give to your neighbours are the less tasty parts of the animal) So in fact you just cut a sheep in blood and you eat the whole meat:) you literally don't share anything or feed ,any poor.

And what about this think about going to holy land and being forgived from your sins think.Going to hac, i mean to mekke in islam religion is a must. Its also forgives your sins and increase your change to go to heaven. I think christians also going to the mary's house as same thing(im not sure about that).But cmon think about it.Going to mekke cost (probably) thousands of dollars from turkey. and in turkey all those people(most of them are old) going there to increase their change to go to heaven. And they think that they are actually good and decent people. Give me a break...They only think about themseelves.... They just think that they will die soon and wants to go to heaven. I mean think about it!!! all those people in the world are dying because of hunger cold diease, expecting you to help them and you just think about yourself and say: "ohh i must go to holy land first, im very afraid, scared.. Ill probably die soon. I dont wanna go to hell".

Which one is more sevap(goodness, charity): Going to mekke and spending all those money while all those people are dying of hunger or donating all those money to some charity association???????

Well, I believe in god but i also believe that god would prefer us to help poor desperate people other than spending all those money to go to mekke...This think around me...IT IS LITERALLY HYPOCRISY!!!I can hardly take it....

PS:About me...I believe in god and islam..i prey in my own language unlike my country people.(They memorize arabic parts and pray in that ritual)..but most of all i also believe in people and care about the people, not only the god!!!And i can proudly say that if their religion is islam, i can't say im a muslim. I usualy say to them "Im the real muslim not you"

About this sheep cutting: I don't let my parents to do that this year again. I remember we did it when i was 5 or 6 but cos of economic reasons they couldn't in last years and and since 2003 i don't let my parents to do that.They also doidn't wanted to do that anyway...

with kind regards,
Stay in peace and love!
Artistuta

who elsie
03-01-2009, 01:10 AM
Well how should i begin... First of all pardon for my english:) im kind a new in this forum... in fact its my first post....Im 23 y.o. ,university student from Turkey which is a muslim country some of you may know...



Hi Artistuta, welcome to the forum. That was a great first post. You make some very good points. I have spent alot of time in Turkey and thankfully many of the people there are more open-minded about the religion than in other muslim countries. I am glad you have the courage to question aspects of Islamic custom, which more people should do. To find a muslim vegetarian is an extremely rare thing. Too many just blindly do what they are told to do and follow all customs and practices unquestioningly. The Eid/Bayram festival of slaughter is one of the sickest religious events of any religion - and you highlighted the hypocracy of it very well. In reality all slaughter of animals for food is unnecessary in a modern civilised society, but the religious practise of slaughtering countless animals in the name of God is doubley cruel & unnecessary and has nothing to do with true spirituality. So, yes, my friend, follow your heart, not the religious dictators, and give up the meat.

By the way, your English is very good!

14april2000
03-01-2009, 04:08 AM
The National Danish TV once made movie about Halai slaughter. But no danish Halai slaughterhouse would allow them into there business so they contacted isreali slaughterhouse`s and they had no problem with there being part of an documentary movie so they invited them to slaughterhouse in isreal.

artistuta
04-01-2009, 04:50 AM
You see us, muslims just the way you like to see don't you :)

14april2000
04-01-2009, 05:13 AM
You see us, muslims just the way you like to see don't you :)

Not really i don`t hold that kind thing in my mind beside i see regelions as mind control to keep sheeps in line.

catty
04-01-2009, 06:32 AM
They are less cruel than the Halal method of killing. At least in slaughterhouses, the animals are stunned unconscious before they are killed.

I beg to differ. Have a look at this and tell me that it is less cruel. http://meat.org/ Sorry I have just seen that this was posted. Oh well if you missed the first one you can watch it again

who elsie
04-01-2009, 01:07 PM
I beg to differ. Have a look at this and tell me that it is less cruel. http://meat.org/ Sorry I have just seen that this was posted. Oh well if you missed the first one you can watch it again

It's actually the 3rd time it's been posted in this thread, but still has had no reaction from the meat-eaters. I think most don't want to even watch it, as it confronts the short-comings of their world view head on. Many meat eaters are in constant denial about the brutality and senselessness of the meat industry. I had the same sense of denial for years, before eventually coming to my senses. Not to know what goes on is to not have any guilt about it. So come on informed truth seekers - wake the fuck up!

14april2000
04-01-2009, 01:53 PM
I beg to differ. Have a look at this and tell me that it is less cruel. http://meat.org/ Sorry I have just seen that this was posted. Oh well if you missed the first one you can watch it again

I don`t eat that kind meat only organic and biodynamic from small farmers my buther has his own fram in the countryside where his animals are going free in natur. The old fashionable way from befor it got that ugly.

PS: I mostly eat Lam.

thirdwave
04-01-2009, 01:59 PM
As there are already laws in the UK against animal cruelty, I cannot understand why the evil process of slitting a fully conscious animals throat until it bleeds to death is legal.

Any Muslim who condone's this practice should hang his head in shame.

It seem's now in the UK that anything can be justified in the name of religion.

I haven't been to ASDA for 4 years now, simply because they stock Halal meat.

I urge everyone to boycott ASDA, and Walmart, as they own ASDA until they no longer stock this 'religious' meat.

http://www.petitiononline.com/endhalal/petition.html


I agree, completely unnecessary...

gutcassidy
04-01-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm an avid meat eater and I just watched the Meet your Meat video.

I was more upset with the idea of the animals pitiful existence than their way of death... If I ever come back as a mass farmed cow, I hope it one reared for veal- get it over and done with.

But, I could probably tuck into a kebab right now tbh... I've slaughtered (My own chooks) and butchered (after roo and wild pig hunting) animals before so watching a video over the internet doesn't really phase me.

Note: I have no problem whatsoever with vegetarians. Whatever another does, is none of my business.

waylander
04-01-2009, 03:16 PM
I have no problem with the Halal or Kosher method of slaughter.

Worse things happen in the wild.

I hunt, Deer, Pigeon, Pheasant & Rabbit.

Animals eat animals, its natural .

Waylander:cool:

gorgeousgertie
04-01-2009, 03:51 PM
I aint seen no battery farm ran and maintained by animals other than human animals......
I got no problem with killing to eat if it is the only way.......
but for us it aint, its a convinient choice, so by chosing to do this when you dont have to in order to survive then you are advocatig all of the pain, misery and needless suffering.

Each to thier own I totally agree!!!!!!!
But actions have concequences................

artistuta
04-01-2009, 06:32 PM
thats a shame...
"Any Muslim who condone's this practice should hang his head in shame."
Do you wanna kill a person cos he killed an animal? :eek:

Then they(the guys relatives) will kill you cos you killed a person, then the people who killed you, will be killed cos they killed you. and it goes like that........... infinite loop

How does it make you any differ than "that" people up there in the pyramid??

kiwimaj
04-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Dont forget the massive amount of government subsidies to the meat industry in order to allow for 'cheap meat'

Ask yourself why they would do that?

Is it because the govment lubs you?...

They would do that because the Govt want us to eat the cheapest food that is bascially toxic to our systems, thus bringing about our early demise. On one hand they want to save our young children from getting certain "illnesses" with "vaccines", the next thing they are poisoning them with powdered baby milk and a myriad of all other kinds of processed "foods" from childhood up...hmmm...doesn't seem to make much sense really...

The powers that are in charge do not want us to be healthy, that's why they are encouraging us to eat rubbish. Shame on you Kerry Katona for being a puppet for that poison shop, Iceland...I wouldn't feed a starving animal anything from that nasty place. Was at a friend's over Xmas and they bought a box of rocky road slices or some such shite..and I read the ingredients had at least 4 different kind of toxic, unnatural colours in it...what is THAT all about??? Food is meant to be fuel to keep us healthy and ALIVE not KILL US !! When are people really and truly going to wake up and realise what they are REALLY putting into their bodies...and no wonder our domesticated pets have all sorts of HUMAN illnesses...but that is a whole other thread !

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

:mad:

waylander
04-01-2009, 08:49 PM
Was at a friend's over Xmas and they bought a box of rocky road slices or some such shite..and I read the ingredients had at least 4 different kind of toxic, unnatural colours in it...what is THAT all about??? :

Must agree with you.

Thats the beauty of free range meat. You kill, you cook it, you eat it.
No unfriendly additives, and tastes nicer.

Waylander:cool:

john white
04-01-2009, 09:02 PM
The practise of eating meat at all, no matter how it is prepared, is patently unspiritual. I have never understood how religious people equate the slaughter of innocent animals for food with spiritual practise. True spirituality recognises the oneness of all life forms. We are all connected. We are all one. So vegetarianism is the only option if you want to develop spiritually.

Dogma

We are just as One with plants as animals, killing plants is therefore ok?

Attitudes like that simply enforce our separation from the cycle of life around us, it is no more "unspiritual" to eat a steak as to eat an aubergine

I am into respecting food: on that basis it is both big agriculture, murdering the soil with petrochemicals (with utterly dire consequences we are almost entirely unaware of), and production line slaughterhouses which are at fault for they divorce us from the reality of food and our relationship with it

Cruelty in meat production is therefore not a matter of halal or not halal, but industrial against small scale organic

adsy
04-01-2009, 09:08 PM
Sorry if i am repeating this as i have just skipped to the last page but i think that they are able to sell halal meat because if the government says no, they will get done for "racism". :rolleyes:

thats what i think anyway. I can understand the been more reasons but i think this is a main one.

elirien
04-01-2009, 09:18 PM
As there are already laws in the UK against animal cruelty, I cannot understand why the evil process of slitting a fully conscious animals throat until it bleeds to death is legal.

Any Muslim who condone's this practice should hang his head in shame.

It seem's now in the UK that anything can be justified in the name of religion.

I haven't been to ASDA for 4 years now, simply because they stock Halal meat.

I urge everyone to boycott ASDA, and Walmart, as they own ASDA until they no longer stock this 'religious' meat.

http://www.petitiononline.com/endhalal/petition.html

look at the meat factories of other people before you judge people that eat the meat they slaughter on their own. the only difference is in when and where and how the animal is slaughtered. I think chicken factories should go rather then kurban meat.

onourwayto2012
04-01-2009, 09:22 PM
Here we go, meet your meat. Halaal, kosher or simply meat eater, you're as bad as each other.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

I'll watch it after I'm done with my Christmas ham leftovers.

thirdwave
04-01-2009, 10:15 PM
The practise of eating meat at all, no matter how it is prepared, is patently unspiritual. I have never understood how religious people equate the slaughter of innocent animals for food with spiritual practise. True spirituality recognises the oneness of all life forms. We are all connected. We are all one. So vegetarianism is the only option if you want to develop spiritually.

by all means disagree with eating meat as much as you like, and I think we can all agree at how awful it is with greedy money mad companies not giving a damn about the treatment of the animals... this has been addressed alot by many meat eaters as well .... its just after a while they just get back to being cruel again... like many things they just keep doing what they want and if people stopped eating meat they would simply make it harder for people not to eat it... in the same old fashion.

But to say eating meat is not spiritual is complete bollox... and is just narrow minded... it does not really effect spirituality one bit.. I would like to know what what bible thumpers think about Jesus eating meat.... how many Christians here will cook up some bollox to answer for that?

By all means feel it is negative and something you do not aspire too, but for a start, why do you think blood sacrifice has ever been around? ... why you think ickes stories of how rituals take place, killing a beings and getting a rush from the blood?.... weather it is negative or possative its all spiritual...

do you think the word spiritual means good or something?

if you do you are wrong.

and regarding saying the slaughter houses are no better, again complete crud.... ok there is no defending how most of these places treat them.. which has been addressed a few times.... but the difference is that with Halal meat they are highlighting the importance of slowly killing the animals while it suffers.... where the slaughter houses are simply deceiving and un responsive to peoples concerns about it... people are not supporting the importance of the cruelty.

So IMO it shows a little bit of biased ignorance for someone to imply its the same thing...

its because of things like this people just role their eyes and ignore people going on about it as everyone has their own little ideal and agenda and no one really cares to attack the heart of certain issues, they just think everyone should be like them.

element
04-01-2009, 10:35 PM
But to say eating meat is not spiritual is complete bollox... and is just narrow minded... it does not really effect spirituality one bit..



You can only make such a statement if you've been on both sides for a while..!!

How the body functions affects the mind, and so on. It all works together. Unless ofcourse, we believe in traditional dualism. Then it won't!

who elsie
04-01-2009, 10:49 PM
by all means disagree with eating meat as much as you like, and I think we can all agree at how awful it is with greedy money mad companies not giving a damn about the treatment of the animals... this has been addressed alot by many meat eaters as well .... its just after a while they just get back to being cruel again... like many things they just keep doing what they want and if people stopped eating meat they would simply make it harder for people not to eat it... in the same old fashion.

But to say eating meat is not spiritual is complete bollox... and is just narrow minded... it does not really effect spirituality one bit.. I would like to know what what bible thumpers think about Jesus eating meat.... how many Christians here will cook up some bollox to answer for that?

By all means feel it is negative and something you do not aspire too, but for a start, why do you think blood sacrifice has ever been around? ... why you think ickes stories of how rituals take place, killing a beings and getting a rush from the blood?.... weather it is negative or possative its all spiritual...

do you think the word spiritual means good or something?

if you do you are wrong.



Thanx for your carefully considered reply. I recognise that spirituality can be both positive and negative, but I am only interested in promoting the positive. This is why I question the motivation of religious people who consider eating meat and sacrificing animals as normal and, therefore, 'good' or at least that there is nothing wrong with it. But there is something wrong with it - it is completely unnecessary! It does not see the value of another living being as being more than just a lump of meat to eat. It sees humans as being separate from animals, when they are not - we are all connected. We are all one. You can disagree if you like, but I see it as just the first step in bringing unity to the world. We have to stop seeing ourselves and others as seperate, single entities and unite - on every level.

Meat eaters wil keep making excuses for why it's ok to eat meat, but the bottom line is - it's not necessary!

waylander
04-01-2009, 11:04 PM
Meat eaters wil keep making excuses for why it's ok to eat meat, but the bottom line is - it's not necessary!

Excuse ?? why would I need an excuse, I'm not doing a bad thing :rolleyes:

Lots of things ain't necessary.

But eating meat is at least natural.

Animals eat animals. That's nature. Nothing more natural than that.

And it tastes good:p



Waylander:cool:

elirien
05-01-2009, 12:04 PM
by all means disagree with eating meat as much as you like, and I think we can all agree at how awful it is with greedy money mad companies not giving a damn about the treatment of the animals... this has been addressed alot by many meat eaters as well .... its just after a while they just get back to being cruel again... like many things they just keep doing what they want and if people stopped eating meat they would simply make it harder for people not to eat it... in the same old fashion.

But to say eating meat is not spiritual is complete bollox... and is just narrow minded... it does not really effect spirituality one bit.. I would like to know what what bible thumpers think about Jesus eating meat.... how many Christians here will cook up some bollox to answer for that?

By all means feel it is negative and something you do not aspire too, but for a start, why do you think blood sacrifice has ever been around? ... why you think ickes stories of how rituals take place, killing a beings and getting a rush from the blood?.... weather it is negative or possative its all spiritual...

do you think the word spiritual means good or something?

if you do you are wrong.

and regarding saying the slaughter houses are no better, again complete crud.... ok there is no defending how most of these places treat them.. which has been addressed a few times.... but the difference is that with Halal meat they are highlighting the importance of slowly killing the animals while it suffers.... where the slaughter houses are simply deceiving and un responsive to peoples concerns about it... people are not supporting the importance of the cruelty.

So IMO it shows a little bit of biased ignorance for someone to imply its the same thing...

its because of things like this people just role their eyes and ignore people going on about it as everyone has their own little ideal and agenda and no one really cares to attack the heart of certain issues, they just think everyone should be like them.

dude halal meat is the healthy way. since it delivers the animal slower to the afterlife, lesser toxins are getting in the blood due to no shock in the death. think of man torture and adrenal chrome. the animal is generally brought up by the children of the person who kills it. there is an all over organical approach in kurban (which means sacrifice). It is the anti response to cultic animal sacrifice. It is the ettiquette to have permission from the one that created it all to kill that particular animal in the harmonious way of nature. nothing in nature dies in a shock except the ones that are hunted by animals and humans.

people's vessels need animal proteins so not killing animals is out of the picture. I'm not some theosophist or evolutionist that claims we are superior of animals and therefore shouldn't eat them. That's very alienated and unnatural behavior imho. since the children grow up with the knowledge of death and that animals are different (not superior or anything like some claim) from people.

at least that is as far as I know and observed me being in a muslim country. although probably there are people that kill and piss on the animal after or get into necrophilia after they kill it lol. but that's not halal meat. you can call it halal all the time (halal means good for you or ordained by god by the way). and how many dying animal videos you watch doesn't change the fact that you need animal proteins and that meat is lovely to consume. I don't know if I could kill a sheep for some ribs but I definitely love to eat it. you've got to get real and deal with the phenomena called death. focus on gazza if you don't like death. that would probably be more logical.

thirdwave
05-01-2009, 12:24 PM
You can only make such a statement if you've been on both sides for a while..!!

How the body functions affects the mind, and so on. It all works together. Unless ofcourse, we believe in traditional dualism. Then it won't!

Thats like saying you dont know if your gay unless you have tried it.

If you feel spiritual and have spiritual experiences while having a meat diet and you do not feel you are being spiritually held back at all... then obviously eating meat does not hold you back....

if you do and you stop and find you are better off, then obviously it works better for you... we are all different and have different bodies...

But the point is in how people think spirituality is another word for being good.... and it bugs me a little.

You can be evil and still very spiritual... you can eat Raw meat with blood falling from both sides of your mouth and still be more spiritual than a Veggie.... spiritual does not mean good.

the whole concept on human sacrifice how ever fucked up it is, it is a spiritual practice.... it is still interacting with spirit.... its just on a vibration that we do not like and resonate with....

thirdwave
05-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Thanx for your carefully considered reply. I recognise that spirituality can be both positive and negative, but I am only interested in promoting the positive. This is why I question the motivation of religious people who consider eating meat and sacrificing animals as normal and, therefore, 'good' or at least that there is nothing wrong with it. But there is something wrong with it - it is completely unnecessary! It does not see the value of another living being as being more than just a lump of meat to eat. It sees humans as being separate from animals, when they are not - we are all connected. We are all one. You can disagree if you like, but I see it as just the first step in bringing unity to the world. We have to stop seeing ourselves and others as seperate, single entities and unite - on every level.

Meat eaters wil keep making excuses for why it's ok to eat meat, but the bottom line is - it's not necessary!

I see what stance you are taking are fair play...

But regarding eating meat?, it is necessary for some animals.... some animals would eat us in a heart beat.

We eat meat because we get minerals from it and it keeps us alive.... yes there are alternatives but there would have been times where there were not and humans relied on killing animals to live, they also used to have to kill them to keep warm as well, or to defend them sevles.

While I would not argue that maybe we are moving into an Era where man could make some kind of transition... I certainly think we should not be treating the animals like we do, and if it meant meat was manufactured less to help prevent the cruelty then I am all for that.

but I think its something that has to come from enlightenment not being told... there are some people who I think need meat... if they were to stop their health would be effected... not all, but some.

thirdwave
05-01-2009, 12:54 PM
dude halal meat is the healthy way. since it delivers the animal slower to the afterlife, lesser toxins are getting in the blood due to no shock in the death. think of man torture and adrenal chrome. the animal is generally brought up by the children of the person who kills it. there is an all over organical approach in kurban (which means sacrifice). It is the anti response to cultic animal sacrifice. It is the ettiquette to have permission from the one that created it all to kill that particular animal in the harmonious way of nature. nothing in nature dies in a shock except the ones that are hunted by animals and humans.



While there might be some time fact about what you say, there is by no means a danger in eating meat where an animal is killed more mercifully.

There is nothing unhealthy about the other method.. I believe the most healthy meat would be from a animal living a normal live in a field who is quickly killed without even knowing what hit it, and then quickly prepared....

meat or no meat, while its being done, this would be the most human way of dealing with it.

The reason its not like that in the West is purely because of money... it makes more money to keep them in shit conditions..and so on... this is what I think is the first issue, seeing another animal as a life source for you is one thing, but taking away their right to live properly is something very different.. also putting them through intense pain as a preference of death is also an issue.

elirien
05-01-2009, 01:36 PM
While there might be some time fact about what you say, there is by no means a danger in eating meat where an animal is killed more mercifully.

There is nothing unhealthy about the other method.. I believe the most healthy meat would be from a animal living a normal live in a field who is quickly killed without even knowing what hit it, and then quickly prepared....

meat or no meat, while its being done, this would be the most human way of dealing with it.

The reason its not like that in the West is purely because of money... it makes more money to keep them in shit conditions..and so on... this is what I think is the first issue, seeing another animal as a life source for you is one thing, but taking away their right to live properly is something very different.. also putting them through intense pain as a preference of death is also an issue.

yeah but "quickly killed" is the actual method there. you are totally right man. the western method is about time space and money optimization of the farm owner. the halal method is anchored in families eating what they kill. they have to take the responsibility of how they feed. can't take killing. don't eat meat ;) although I'm saying western, it is not so different over here in our cities. it is this weird "corporate lifestyle" that is the actual problem. this halal debate is just an off shoot of this imho.

mountain
05-01-2009, 02:02 PM
yeah but "quickly killed" is the actual method there. you are totally right man. the western method is about time space and money optimization of the farm owner. the halal method is anchored in families eating what they kill. they have to take the responsibility of how they feed. can't take killing. don't eat meat ;) although I'm saying western, it is not so different over here in our cities. it is this weird "corporate lifestyle" that is the actual problem. this halal debate is just an off shoot of this imho.

How about indigenous cultures like Native Americans... they usually give thanks to the animals they hunt for meals....

Oh and has someone mentioned 'kosher' or is that the same as halal...?

element
05-01-2009, 02:16 PM
How about indigenous cultures like Native Americans... they usually give thanks to the animals they hunt for meals....

In a natural environment, where the animal had a life and wasn't raised from birth to be a meatbag.
Oh and has someone mentioned 'kosher' or is that the same as halal...?

It means they don't eat dairy and meat together. They don't eat the cow and then drink from its milk. I think it's a decent principle, but still in error if you think about it.

Thirdwave:
Thats like saying you dont know if your gay unless you have tried it.
Don't think so, you know your sexuality, if not you try out. But even so, you might have a point. The spirit couldn't care less wheter you are gay or hetero. I think the majority of people is bisexual without realising it. Anyway, quite offtopic!

If you feel spiritual and have spiritual experiences while having a meat diet and you do not feel you are being spiritually held back at all... then obviously eating meat does not hold you back....
if you do and you stop and find you are better off, then obviously it works better for you... we are all different and have different bodies...
But the point is in how people think spirituality is another word for being good.... and it bugs me a little.
You can be evil and still very spiritual... you can eat Raw meat with blood falling from both sides of your mouth and still be more spiritual than a Veggie.... spiritual does not mean good.

This is true. I can only speak for myself and say it helped me greatly.
But you can't say a non-meat diet isn't spiritual or doesn't benefit it, because you only know once you tried it for a while. ''The least harm there where we can..'' is a nice philosophy. Whatever way it is interpretated is up to each individual.
But what you eat does effect you greatly. I can think positive about chocolate but still I know it fucks up my system. When my body doesn't work properly, neither will my mind.
Another thing, years ago I hardly ate any fruit and thought it was all overrated by the health companies. But sooner or later, your body will react! The body demands to be taken care off. So thoughts are not All-powerful over the body. While we're living in the physical world, the body is a tool and it has to be treated with respect. Whatever food or drinks are good for you, is up to your own experience. And yes, we all got different bodies..

elirien
05-01-2009, 02:48 PM
How about indigenous cultures like Native Americans... they usually give thanks to the animals they hunt for meals....

Oh and has someone mentioned 'kosher' or is that the same as halal...?

dunno about the difference between kosher and halal (am not into jewish traditions) but halal meat or kurban is the same thing in essence as the native americans do. they thank the animal directly. "halal people" thank the creator that made the animal and themselves. the ending is the same. both have a very droolingly good meal accompanied with a family gathering to eat the stuff and communicate. can't see anything bad in this except the organized way it is being made. but hey. the only organization in this is that some dudes do this to commemorate an arab vessel for a book by making this every year to remember themselves how it is to kill an animal for food and to give that meat to those who are in need of it. no problem with that again. kurban in essence means to give up what you love most. that could be meat but could also be your favorite laptop or car. misinterpretation is again rampant on this concept. long story.