My first attempt at taking on a Corporate entity

[pleasuredome]

this is my first attempt. its probably terrible and laughable, but its worth having a go as its just my start of a learning process. here is the communication i sent to the Carphone Warehouse after their use of a fradulant telesales pitch on me.


to whom it may concern,

today, friday december 5th, at 11.16am i was called by one of your representatives. he told me that I HAVE QUALIFIED to receive a free laptop. i asked him to send me the laptop. he said that i would need to follow a process of making application for services of the carphone warehouse in order to recieve the laptop. i replied by saying that if, like he said, i was qualified for free laptop i would not need to go through that process, and therefore he should send the laptop to me. he then claimed, after insulting me by questioning if i was capable of understanding how to get products and services, that I CAN QUALIFY to recieve a free laptop. i informed him that he had lied at which point a superior cut off the call.

i'd like to draw your attention to the law, that your employee made a false representation by claiming a false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made, which is an offence of fraud at common law.

unfortunately, i was unable to write down the name of the employee and so i am unable to sue his person. however, i am able to sue you, the carphone warehouse. however, before i begin with legal proceedings, as an honourable man, i would like first to offer you chance to come to agreement on how this matter can be resolved.

i will give you 7 days as of today, friday december 5th, to reply honourably.

i have made a printscreen copy of this communication, and its submitted confirmation.

yours faithully,

:D:D

[tien an]

this is my first attempt. its probably terrible and laughable, but its worth having a go as its just my start of a learning process. here is the communication i sent to the Carphone Warehouse after their use of a fradulant telesales pitch on me.


to whom it may concern,

today, friday december 5th, at 11.16am i was called by one of your representatives. he told me that I HAVE QUALIFIED to receive a free laptop. i asked him to send me the laptop. he said that i would need to follow a process of making application for services of the carphone warehouse in order to recieve the laptop. i replied by saying that if, like he said, i was qualified for free laptop i would not need to go through that process, and therefore he should send the laptop to me. he then claimed, after insulting me by questioning if i was capable of understanding how to get products and services, that I CAN QUALIFY to recieve a free laptop. i informed him that he had lied at which point a superior cut off the call.

i'd like to draw your attention to the law, that your employee made a false representation by claiming a false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made, which is an offence of fraud at common law.

unfortunately, i was unable to write down the name of the employee and so i am unable to sue his person. however, i am able to sue you, the carphone warehouse. however, before i begin with legal proceedings, as an honourable man, i would like first to offer you chance to come to agreement on how this matter can be resolved.

i will give you 7 days as of today, friday december 5th, to reply honourably.

i have made a printscreen copy of this communication, and its submitted confirmation.

yours faithully,

:D:D

:D I'll be watching...

[alternative_answer]

this is my first attempt. its probably terrible and laughable, but its worth having a go as its just my start of a learning process. here is the communication i sent to the Carphone Warehouse after their use of a fradulant telesales pitch on me.


to whom it may concern,

today, friday december 5th, at 11.16am i was called by one of your representatives. he told me that I HAVE QUALIFIED to receive a free laptop. i asked him to send me the laptop. he said that i would need to follow a process of making application for services of the carphone warehouse in order to recieve the laptop. i replied by saying that if, like he said, i was qualified for free laptop i would not need to go through that process, and therefore he should send the laptop to me. he then claimed, after insulting me by questioning if i was capable of understanding how to get products and services, that I CAN QUALIFY to recieve a free laptop. i informed him that he had lied at which point a superior cut off the call.

i'd like to draw your attention to the law, that your employee made a false representation by claiming a false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made, which is an offence of fraud at common law.

unfortunately, i was unable to write down the name of the employee and so i am unable to sue his person. however, i am able to sue you, the carphone warehouse. however, before i begin with legal proceedings, as an honourable man, i would like first to offer you chance to come to agreement on how this matter can be resolved.

i will give you 7 days as of today, friday december 5th, to reply honourably.

i have made a printscreen copy of this communication, and its submitted confirmation.

yours faithully,

:D:D

How do you do a print screen copy?

[pleasuredome]

How do you do a print screen copy?

press the key that says 'print screen' or 'PrtSc' :)

[alzee]

Good luck matey; do keep us informed :)

[yozhik]

This should be fun :)

Please keep the updates coming :D

[mushroombot]

this is my first attempt. its probably terrible and laughable, but its worth having a go as its just my start of a learning process. here is the communication i sent to the Carphone Warehouse after their use of a fradulant telesales pitch on me.


to whom it may concern,

today, friday december 5th, at 11.16am i was called by one of your representatives. he told me that I HAVE QUALIFIED to receive a free laptop. i asked him to send me the laptop. he said that i would need to follow a process of making application for services of the carphone warehouse in order to recieve the laptop. i replied by saying that if, like he said, i was qualified for free laptop i would not need to go through that process, and therefore he should send the laptop to me. he then claimed, after insulting me by questioning if i was capable of understanding how to get products and services, that I CAN QUALIFY to recieve a free laptop. i informed him that he had lied at which point a superior cut off the call.

i'd like to draw your attention to the law, that your employee made a false representation by claiming a false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made, which is an offence of fraud at common law.

unfortunately, i was unable to write down the name of the employee and so i am unable to sue his person. however, i am able to sue you, the carphone warehouse. however, before i begin with legal proceedings, as an honourable man, i would like first to offer you chance to come to agreement on how this matter can be resolved.

i will give you 7 days as of today, friday december 5th, to reply honourably.

i have made a printscreen copy of this communication, and its submitted confirmation.

yours faithully,

:D:D

Well spotted. Its definitely a scam which I'm sure drags in a fair bit of custom. You're right to pursue it, even if they wriggle out of it they may think twice if more customers pulled them up on it. Keep us posted.

[tien an]

press the key that says 'print screen' or 'PrtSc' :)

...in conjunction with the 'Alt' key....

Then, before you do anything else, open up an image processing program (paint is provided with windows...that's adequate).
Once the program is open, go straight to 'Edit' and click 'Paste'.

Your screenshot should then appear in paint.

Go to 'File', select 'Save as...'
and then save it wherever you want (you also have the choice of saving it as a bitmap (.bmp) which is a very large file, but with amazing detail, or as a .jpeg or similar, which is a 'lighter' file, with not as much detail.

Hope that helps.

[pleasuredome]

...in conjunction with the 'Alt' key....

Then, before you do anything else, open up an image processing program (paint is provided with windows...that's adequate).
Once the program is open, go straight to 'Edit' and click 'Paste'.

Your screenshot should then appear in paint.

Go to 'File', select 'Save as...'
and then save it wherever you want (you also have the choice of saving it as a bitmap (.bmp) which is a very large file, but with amazing detail, or as a .jpeg or similar, which is a 'lighter' file, with not as much detail.

Hope that helps.

oh yeah, was meant to say all that too. but im buzzing like fuck over everything ive been reading and its implications :D

[yozhik]

I think Friday means "dumb day" for me, so I apologise in advance ... :rolleyes:

Why would you be so intent on "Print Screen" of a telesales call?
What was on the screen of so much importance?

[cruise4]

"i was unable to write down the name of the employee"

Have you noticed how you cannot get surnames these days? Companies say it's 'not policy'. They want every last detail off you though.

[pleasuredome]

I think Friday means "dumb day" for me, so I apologise in advance ... :rolleyes:

Why would you be so intent on "Print Screen" of a telesales call?
What was on the screen of so much importance?

sorry, i forgot to mention that i used their website complaints email. printscreen was used so that i have a copy of what i have sent to them on their system.

my feeling is is that they wont even send an email of confirmation of recepit of my complaint, in which case i will send something far more formal. if they do respond then it will be interesting to see what they say. :cool:

[pleasuredome]

"i was unable to write down the name of the employee"

Have you noticed how you cannot get surnames these days? Companies say it's 'not policy'. They want every last detail off you though.

he did actually tell me, but i was in so much of a flap that i forgot it and didnt write it down. sometimes when you ask for their name they usually just give you their first name, you then have to ask for their surname. some seem a bit reticent to give it

[yozhik]

Kind of different, but somewhat loosely connected to this ... I had a similar interesting experience with a phone caller the other day.

They called and asked to speak to "my name".
I asked "who is calling please and what is the nature of the call?"

They replied; "well am I speaking to (my name)?"
I replied; "you called this number, so please tell me who is calling and state the purpose of your call".

They then stated the company name and said that they needed to confirm that they were speaking to (my name), to which I replied; "you still have not told me the purpose of this call".

I was then told that they could not divulge the purpose of the call as it was subject to the Privacy of Information Act, so in order to proceed, I would have to give them my Date of Birth.

My reply was;

"sorry - that information is private. I do not know who you are. You have refused to state the purpose of the call. I am under no obligation to give any information that is private."

The person on the phone was stunned. There was silence :D

They said; "well, I need to discuss something with (my name) and I can't give any information about the purpose of the call until I can confirm the name and the DOB ..."

So I simply said; ... "then it seems this is a waste of a phone call then, doesn't it? ... you need to understand; you're the one making the call, you're the one needing confirmation, you're the one who requires confirmation ... and I am simply telling you that none of that happens unless you first give the information required of you! ... so I will ask again ... who are you? who are you calling on behalf of? ... and what is the purpose of the call?"

(silence)

"I can't give you that information because of the Privacy Of Information Act"

To which I replied; "great ... we agree then. So is there anything else I can help you with?"

(silence)

Thanks for calling ... bye-bye :D

[alternative_answer]

Kind of different, but somewhat loosely connected to this ... I had a similar interesting experience with a phone caller the other day.

They called and asked to speak to "my name".
I asked "who is calling please and what is the nature of the call?"

They replied; "well am I speaking to (my name)?"
I replied; "you called this number, so please tell me who is calling and state the purpose of your call".

They then stated the company name and said that they needed to confirm that they were speaking to (my name), to which I replied; "you still have not told me the purpose of this call".

I was then told that they could not divulge the purpose of the call as it was subject to the Privacy of Information Act, so in order to proceed, I would have to give them my Date of Birth.

My reply was;

"sorry - that information is private. I do not know who you are. You have refused to state the purpose of the call. I am under no obligation to give any information that is private."

The person on the phone was stunned. There was silence :D

They said; "well, I need to discuss something with (my name) and I can't give any information about the purpose of the call until I can confirm the name and the DOB ..."

So I simply said; ... "then it seems this is a waste of a phone call then, doesn't it? ... you need to understand; you're the one making the call, you're the one needing confirmation, you're the one who requires confirmation ... and I am simply telling you that none of that happens unless you first give the information required of you! ... so I will ask again ... who are you? who are you calling on behalf of? ... and what is the purpose of the call?"

(silence)

"I can't give you that information because of the Privacy Of Information Act"

To which I replied; "great ... we agree then. So is there anything else I can help you with?"

(silence)

Thanks for calling ... bye-bye :D

Wicked, I love it... Play them at their own game, remember call centres employees are just people like us, why not tell them about Free Man?? :)

[armoured_amazon]

unfortunately, i was unable to write down the name of the employee and so i am unable to sue his person. however, i am able to sue you, the carphone warehouse. however, before i begin with legal proceedings, as an honourable man, i would like first to offer you chance to come to agreement on how this matter can be resolved.

:D :D

Well spotted. Its definitely a scam which I'm sure drags in a fair bit of custom. You're right to pursue it, even if they wriggle out of it they may think twice if more customers pulled them up on it. Keep us posted.

Yes, keep us provided with updates!

[adzboarder]

Print out a detailed letter and send it in the post recorded delivery for best results in my experience. I'm always whinging and I always get refunds and I always get free stuff :D

[pleasuredome]

excellent post yozhik! :cool:

[grenadene]

excellent post yozhik! :cool:

Excellent posts from both of you :)

It gets quite addictive after a while..... I love the phone ringing these days :D

[red_ram]

"i was unable to write down the name of the employee"

Have you noticed how you cannot get surnames these days? Companies say it's 'not policy'. They want every last detail off you though.

When working at a major insurance co-operative we were instructed to give our full names. But I do recall seeing a program where a complainant was unable to get the name of the British Gas employee he was speaking to.

[tien an]

My wife and I had a similar run-in with TMobile:

They kept prolonging our (out-of-contract) contract.
We couldn't work out why we were still receiving bills from them after having cancelled all business with them and paid everything they had requested...
then at the beginning of November, we took it up with the manager of the local TMobile store.
He was as puzzled as us (I give him the benefit of the doubt), and together we called TMobile.

It transpires that since we paid our bills in cash (at a bank, using the counterfoil for this purpose), we were incurring a £3.00 charge...for paying in cash! This led to a prolongation of our contract by another 30 days because they 'couldn't close their accounts'.
We don't have the money to attempt to take them to court, so, in the TMobile store (with a signed statement witnessing the transaction from the manager) we paid (yet) another month's subscription with a debit card.

We were informed (over the phone) that there "might yet be something to pay in the beginning of December".

I await their bill...

Be warned of underhand tactics.

[boots]

My wife and I had a similar run-in with TMobile:

They kept prolonging our (out-of-contract) contract.
We couldn't work out why we were still receiving bills from them after having cancelled all business with them and paid everything they had requested...
then at the beginning of November, we took it up with the manager of the local TMobile store.
He was as puzzled as us (I give him the benefit of the doubt), and together we called TMobile.

It transpires that since we paid our bills in cash (at a bank, using the counterfoil for this purpose), we were incurring a £3.00 charge...for paying in cash! This led to a prolongation of our contract by another 30 days because they 'couldn't close their accounts'.
We don't have the money to attempt to take them to court, so, in the TMobile store (with a signed statement witnessing the transaction from the manager) we paid (yet) another month's subscription with a debit card.

We were informed (over the phone) that there "might yet be something to pay in the beginning of December".

I await their bill...

Be warned of underhand tactics.


Scumbags:mad:

I dislike corporations with a passion.

Can you cancel your debit card?

.

[tien an]

Boots wrote:


"Can you cancel your debit card?"

I'd like nothing more, but 1. it belongs to my wife & 2. we've decided to keep hold of it for just such transactions + internet transactions.

Personally, I own nothing with this type of microchip. (feel better already).
It makes transactions difficult sometimes and you get puzzled looks at the bank when you insist you want all your accounts merged into one BASIC current account and one BASIC savings account.

Stuff 'em.

[dondaz]

this is my first attempt. its probably terrible and laughable, but its worth having a go as its just my start of a learning process. here is the communication i sent to the Carphone Warehouse after their use of a fradulant telesales pitch on me.

I've seen those scams on the net! Good on yer for having them at it. They like to switch words and definitions on us. I'll be watching this thread.:D

[QUOTE]Kind of different, but somewhat loosely connected to this ... I had a similar interesting experience with a phone caller the other day.

They called and asked to speak to "my name".
I asked "who is calling please and what is the nature of the call?"QUOTE]

I get these too. I owe Littlewoods £92 quid and they've got the solicitors onto me. I refuse to tell them my DOB and name and ask what they want. They wont tell me so I tell them I have no contract with them so on yer bike!:D I'll get round to paying when Littlewoods sends me the bill!

[pleasuredome]

received confirmation email. just one of those automated emails, but at least its confirmation that they have my complaint.


Sent: Fri 12/05/08 9:07 PM
To: *******************

** This is an automated response from The Carphone Warehouse. Please do not reply. **


Thank you for your email.


We’re writing to let you know that we have received your complaint, and a member of our team will be researching it today.


We’ll do our very best to get back to you within the next five working days. If it takes longer than this, we’ll email you with an update.


Many thanks

The Carphone Warehouse

[adzboarder]

received confirmation email. just one of those automated emails, but at least its confirmation that they have my complaint.

...


Thank you for your email.

We’re writing to let you know that we have received your complaint, and a member of our team will be researching it today. ...

Kin ell! So there is someone at Carphone Warehouse who is actually CAPABLE of "research"!? :D

[pleasuredome]

Kin ell! So there is someone at Carphone Warehouse who is actually CAPABLE of "research"!? :D

yeah, im not expecting a reply anytime soon :D

[pleasuredome]

Just received a telephone call from the carphone warehouse insurance dept by a guy called john claiming that they never called me and that the number i gave them is not a carphone warehouse number!!!

after the call, i called carphone warehouse customer services. i gave them the original number the sales rep used and asked them to confirm if the number is a CW number and they said that it is an AOL number, and AOL is owned by the CW!! i told if he would put a note of our converstation on the computer and he said of course. nice chap!!

im now going to call john back and ask him if he has made a note on his records of the call made to me and what he said. i will then ask to be put through to his supervisor and ask why john has lied to me, which is gross negligence and equal to fraud.

watch this space!!! :D

[tien an]

just received a telephone call from the carphone warehouse insurance dept by a guy called john claiming that they never called me and that the number i gave them is not a carphone warehouse number!!!

After the call, i called carphone warehouse customer services. I gave them the original number the sales rep used and asked them to confirm if the number is a cw number and they said that it is an aol number, and aol is owned by the cw!! I told if he would put a note of our converstation on the computer and he said of course. Nice chap!!

Im now going to call john back and ask him if he has made a note on his records of the call made to me and what he said. I will then ask to be put through to his supervisor and ask why john has lied to me, which is gross negligence and equal to fraud.

Watch this space!!! :d

lol!

[pleasuredome]

i recieved a call back from john to say that because it was AOL (but aol are owned by CW) that called me, then i need to take the matter up with them. and that there they have no evidence of the phone call made to me or that he claimed to be representing the CW. and that they were not in a position to remedy the situation. i asked if The CW had a contract with AOL for AOL to act as a third party for them, he said no.

i called AOL. they said that they do not record outbound calls, so i have no proof the original converstion with the sales rep, although i do have proof that i was called by AOL. the man said that as far as he is aware, there's a contract between AOL and The CW so that AOL can act as third party to make calls on The CW behalf. i asked him who is ultimately responsible for the call, and he said it should be The CW.

anyone got any opinions on what i should do next?

[tien an]

i recieved a call back from john to say that because it was AOL (but aol are owned by CW) that called me, then i need to take the matter up with them. and that there they have no evidence of the phone call made to me or that he claimed to be representing the CW. and that they were not in a position to remedy the situation. i asked if The CW had a contract with AOL for AOL to act as a third party for them, he said no.

i called AOL. they said that they do not record outbound calls, so i have no proof the original converstion with the sales rep, although i do have proof that i was called by AOL. the man said that as far as he is aware, there's a contract between AOL and The CW so that AOL can act as third party to make calls on The CW behalf. i asked him who is ultimately responsible for the call, and he said it should be The CW.

anyone got any opinions on what i should do next?

Hang on...CW owns AOL??

AOL + Time Warner??

How about quitting beating about the bush and write to the CEO of CW?
(What do you want from them, BTW?).

[somethinganonymous]

Hang on...CW owns AOL??

AOL + Time Warner??

How about quitting beating about the bush and write to the CEO of CW?
(What do you want from them, BTW?).

he wants a free laptop of course, just like he was promised...

[pleasuredome]

Hang on...CW owns AOL??

AOL + Time Warner??

How about quitting beating about the bush and write to the CEO of CW?
(What do you want from them, BTW?).

really its AOL broadband. they just refer to it as AOL.

http://aolbroadband.co.uk/pages/productPages/acquisition/aboutUs.jsp

yes, writing to the V.P of AOL is the next step. i just wanting to make sure i go thru the procedures to get as much info as possible and make a better case :)

[pleasuredome]

he wants a free laptop of course, just like he was promised...

not just that, but more importantly its all part of the learning process. you cant beat experience, at least not with a stick anyway :cool:

[pleasuredome]

ive decided that because of the complication of dealing with 2 companies and not just one, and the effort it would take for little reward, that i'll leave this one.

what is the lesson to be learned from this??

if you can, ALWAYS RECORD TELEPHONE CALLS as long as you inform the other person from the start.

[yozhik]

if you can, ALWAYS RECORD TELEPHONE CALLS as long as you inform the other person from the start.

In Australia, the Telecommunications Act is written in such a way that you do NOT have to inform the other party.

As long as;
a) you are a primary party to the conversation, and
b) you are recording for your lawful/legal protection

... then you can record without consent of the other party.

The act is to differentiate between 3rd party recording as opposed to a primary party. Would be worth checking the corresponding law in the UK.

Also worth noting that "recording" does not limit to audio only; as long as the device can record audio, its auxiliary functions are irrelevant. Hence, a video camera can be used at any time, as long as a) and b) are met.

[pleasuredome]

In Australia, the Telecommunications Act is written in such a way that you do NOT have to inform the other party.

As long as;
a) you are a primary party to the conversation, and
b) you are recording for your lawful/legal protection

... then you can record without consent of the other party.

The act is to differentiate between 3rd party recording as opposed to a primary party. Would be worth checking the corresponding law in the UK.

Also worth noting that "recording" does not limit to audio only; as long as the device can record audio, its auxiliary functions are irrelevant. Hence, a video camera can be used at any time, as long as a) and b) are met.

you can record a telephone conversation without asking, but if you are going to share that with a third party, then you need to inform them. however as you will see below, businesses can use recordings as evidence of a business transaction without informing you. so i can only presume that a customer can do the same.

a business does not need to inform the customer that the call is being recorded if its only for these reasons:

* to provide evidence of a business transaction
* to ensure that a business complies with regulatory procedures to see that quality standards or targets are being met in the interests of national security
* to prevent or detect crime
* to investigate the unauthorised use of a telecom system
* to secure the effective operation of the telecom system.

the recording of phone calls is governed by these acts:

* Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ("RIPA")
* Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice (Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 ("LBP Regulations")
* Data Protection Act 1998
* Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999
* Human Rights Act 1998

[danster82]

You should of give them 7 days to send you the laptop they claimed you had already qualified for... that would of been their remedy :)

[pleasuredome]

You should of give them 7 days to send you the laptop they claimed you had already qualified for... that would of been their remedy :)

even if i had sent them a letter, they'll say prove that a contract was made. i have no recording of it.