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dajlelion
02-12-2008, 11:17 AM
He's a piece of sh!t:

Penn And Teller - Dalai Lama the slave owner - YouTube

middleway00
02-12-2008, 12:20 PM
there's two sides to every story.

nirvana
02-12-2008, 01:39 PM
Power corrupts

Peace:)

oddblock
02-12-2008, 02:05 PM
He's part of the machine in my opinion... Sadly.

rossus
02-12-2008, 02:21 PM
there's two sides to every story.
only 2 ?

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/alicepic/disney-movie/cheshire-cat-5.jpg

dajlelion
02-12-2008, 02:56 PM
It just amazes me how musicians and other people who I've looked up too for many years (Patti Smith, Janes Addiction, etc..) have always looked up to him, and have participated in the FREE TIBET campaign, when Tibet under the Dalai Lama's ruling is even worse than modern day communism.

People think he's some peaceful man who meditate's all day and travels the world to do good work. He's just another controlled puppet in the scheme of things.

tyler
02-12-2008, 03:44 PM
I agree, he is a piece of shite. He is a pawn of the NWO and has stopped his people from rising up since the Chinese invaded.

Let us not forget that the Chinese have invaded and occupied and colonised another people's homeland. Just Like the Khazers have done in Palestine.

romas
03-12-2008, 05:43 PM
Eh, I wouldn't trust pen and teller so much, there is some wisdom in what they said, but the part where they mention "poor food" is their own american judgement, sure they don't have mcburgers, but I've see so many people who want DL back and free Tibet, it's peoples decision where and how they want to live.

chris
03-12-2008, 06:00 PM
He's a piece of sh!t:

So elequently put

Mo0n5tar
03-12-2008, 06:58 PM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/mickyjay/NaziLama.jpg

I think it's relevant the main Jesuit university in Columbia reps the Lama on its front page
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/mickyjay/DalaiLamaJesuit.jpg

size_of_light
03-12-2008, 08:49 PM
Because Penn and Teller would never direct people away from the truth, right?

....right?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

fromthatshow
03-12-2008, 11:16 PM
fuckin' dick needs to stop reincarnating and just go back to source already

kasalt
01-01-2009, 05:21 PM
It just amazes me how musicians and other people who I've looked up too for many years (Patti Smith, Janes Addiction, etc..) have always looked up to him, and have participated in the FREE TIBET campaign, when Tibet under the Dalai Lama's ruling is even worse than modern day communism.

People think he's some peaceful man who meditate's all day and travels the world to do good work. He's just another controlled puppet in the scheme of things.

I think you have a point. This is a video that was obviously made by someone who favors the Chinese side of the story. It's worth hearing all sides:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9uWd7jnr-y4

pinkfreud
01-01-2009, 05:26 PM
china is just as manipulative. if the dalai lama is guilty of working for the ptb and furthering their agenda, china is much worse.

i'd pick him as the lesser of the two evils, but yeah i think he's being controlled, rather than controlling those under him...

i somehow feel sad for his followers, coz they're very peaceful and loving on the whole.

kasalt
01-01-2009, 05:44 PM
china is just as manipulative. if the dalai lama is guilty of working for the ptb and furthering their agenda, china is much worse.

i'd pick him as the lesser of the two evils...

On that point, I like what Penn had to say in the OP's video:Since "Mr. Lama" has been run out of Tibet, the Chinese have introduced secular education, running water, and electricity, so maybe life has been better on the ground there.

Of course, the Chinese have also thrown thousands into labour camps and prisons, stomped on as much free speech as possible, and then there's that whole fucked up 'communism' thing. But if you ask Tenzin Gyatso...His Holiness will tell you that he must return to power for the good of his people. In this case, "good" may translate into his people living in squalor, and his government condoning slavery.

Remember, the lesser of two evils is still evil, and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
i somehow feel sad for his followers, coz they're very peaceful and loving on the whole.

Agreed. :(

element
01-01-2009, 05:45 PM
China is doing just as bad as Israel. Don't forget.

pinkfreud
01-01-2009, 05:58 PM
On that point, I like what Penn had to say in the OP's video:Since "Mr. Lama" has been run out of Tibet, the Chinese have introduced secular education, running water, and electricity, so maybe life has been better on the ground there.

Of course, the Chinese have also thrown thousands into labour camps and prisons, stomped on as much free speech as possible, and then there's that whole fucked up 'communism' thing. But if you ask Tenzin Gyatso...His Holiness will tell you that he must return to power for the good of his people. In this case, "good" may translate into his people living in squalor, and his government condoning slavery.

Remember, the lesser of two evils is still evil, and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.



true kasalt, but i find the use of the word 'squalor' is actually very subjective.

what may seem like 'squalor' and 'deprived living' to many in the 'west'- even poverty, for that matter, actually isn't for those living in such nations. they're very happy living on meagre incomes, having to exist in relative filth and yes- very basic food, water, and homes as well.

the people of tibet, though living in 'poverty' are comparatively more spiritually advanced. i don't think it would be right for someone to say these individuals were living in squalor under the dalai lama, unless they can present facts to show he was deliberately coercing people to adapt to such an environment.

also, if china has introduced 'secular' education and other amenities, the fact that they have choked freedom of speech speaks volumes. if gyatso had not encouraged such 'education' and introduced improved facilities, he had at least ensured tibet had one voice. that said, again- i don't think he's completely clean.


China is doing just as bad as Israel. Don't forget.

+1

measle_weasel
01-01-2009, 06:04 PM
only 2 ?

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/alicepic/disney-movie/cheshire-cat-5.jpg

Three. Your side, my side, and the truth.

chris
01-01-2009, 06:23 PM
true kasalt, but i find the use of the word 'squalor' is actually very subjective.

what may seem like 'squalor' and 'deprived living' to many in the 'west'- even poverty, for that matter, actually isn't for those living in such nations. they're very happy living on meagre incomes, having to exist in relative filth and yes- very basic food, water, and homes as well.

the people of tibet, though living in 'poverty' are comparatively more spiritually advanced. i don't think it would be right for someone to say these individuals were living in squalor under the dalai lama, unless they can present facts to show he was deliberately coercing people to adapt to such an environment.

It may have been more spiritually forfilling for the preist class but not for the serfs...

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 06:44 PM
PENN AND TELLER are freemasons and are full of SHIT.

pinkfreud
01-01-2009, 07:12 PM
It may have been more spiritually forfilling for the preist class but not for the serfs...

you got a point, but i've been to lhasa and the people in general seemed very spiritual, loving and peaceful in nature- except for their attitudes towards chinese occupation. maybe they're brainwashed as well, who knows...

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 07:17 PM
You must first break away from the herd, from all things you have considered normal, understanding that all you have learned in your life only served self-interest and group-interest; that so far your life, driven by vanity and selfishness, has been a mistake, and that you did not live as you might have. You must see that your character has been a learned behaviour, until you have redeemed your last penny and stand completely naked. Then you will be granted the last step, from despair to rest. Then you will be able to see clearly. It is then that you will understand you are only man or woman. At that moment, you will see everywhere around you people acting out their play, adorned with the masks of their character, occupation, religion and other group masks, and initially you cannot imagine that they cannot see this. It disturbs you when you realize you know more than all the great men of earth, because such knowledge is not needed. If you know yourself, you realize you only need knowledge in order to live in society, and that you must refute that same knowledge in order to live free from the world system. But, you understand everything!

marpat
01-01-2009, 07:19 PM
I agree, he is a piece of shite. He is a pawn of the NWO and has stopped his people from rising up since the Chinese invaded.

Let us not forget that the Chinese have invaded and occupied and colonised another people's homeland. Just Like the Khazers have done in Palestine.

Is there anybody who is not part of the agenda in your mind?

Why has he used non-violent protest? because his mission is to promote peace. If he believes that war is evil then why would he push people to do it?

marpat
01-01-2009, 07:24 PM
fuckin' dick needs to stop reincarnating and just go back to source already

That remark is actuall quite silly. If he is an advanced soul then the act of coming back is helpful to those who would struggle without such help. If every advanced souls just went back to the source at the firs tchance then there would be a lot more darkness in the world. Is it not unselffish of him to return to help people? it is certainly more selfish if he were to leave everybody behind while he enjoyed his own liberation.

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 07:28 PM
In the Buddhist context, a bodhisattva (Sanskrit: बोधिसत्त्व, bodhisattva; Tibetan: བྱང་ཆུབ་སེམས་དཔའ་; Wylie: byang chub sems dpa; Vietnamese: Bồ Tát; Pali: बोधिसत्त, bodhisatta; Thai: โพธิสัตว์, phothisat; Japanese: 菩薩, bosatsu; simplified Chinese: 菩萨; traditional Chinese: 菩薩; pinyin: púsà) means either "enlightened (bodhi) existence (sattva)" or "enlightenment-being" or, given the variant Sanskrit spelling satva rather than sattva, "heroic-minded one (satva) for enlightenment (bodhi)". Another translation is "Wisdom-Being".[1] The various divisions of Buddhism understand the word bodhisattva in different ways, but especially in Mahayana Buddhism, it mainly refers to a being that compassionately refrains from entering nirvana in order to save others.:)

Mahayana Buddhism, on the other hand, regards the Bodhisattva as a person who already has a considerable degree of enlightenment and seeks to use their wisdom to help other human beings to become liberated themselves. In this understanding of the word the Bodhisattva is an already wise person who uses skillful means to lead others to see the benefits of virtue and the cultivation of wisdom.

In Mahayana Buddhism life in this world is compared to people living in a house that is on fire. They take this world as reality pursuing worldly projects and pleasures without realising that the house is on fire and will soon burn down (the inevitability of death). A Bodhisattva is the one who has determination to free sentient beings from samsara with the cycle of death, rebirth and suffering. This type of mind is known as bodhicitta; Sanskrit for mind of awakening. Bodhisattvas take bodhisattva vows in order to progress on the spiritual path towards buddhahood.

chris
01-01-2009, 07:44 PM
is it not unselffish of him to return to help people? it is certainly more selfish if he were to leave everybody behind while he enjoyed his own liberation.

Well if this is him helping people, I don't want to get on his bad side

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 07:46 PM
Well if this is him helping people, I don't want to get on his bad side

Do you know what happened to the panchen lama?

The true present (11th) incarnation of the Panchen Lama is a matter of controversy: the People's Republic of China asserts it is Qoigyijabu, while the Tibetan Government in Exile maintains it is Gedhun Choekyi Nyima; the latter was arrested by the Chinese government in 1995 and as of 2008 has not been seen in public.

would you trust the chinese government?or any government come to that.

With the invasion of Tibet in 1950 and the subsequent Seventeen Point Agreement, the PRC asserted control over Tibet.

A rebellion against the Chinese occupation was led by noblemen and monasteries and broke out in Amdo and eastern Kham in June 1956. The insurrection, supported by the American CIA, eventually spread to Lhasa. It was crushed by 1959. During this campaign, tens of thousands of Tibetans were killed and the 14th Dalai Lama and other government principals fled to exile in India.

CIA again i see,always got their hand in things

TIBETAN DEATHS UNDER CHINESE OCCUPATION (through 1988)

CAUSE OF DEATH U-Tsang Kham Amdo Total
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tortured in prison 93,560 64,877 14,784 173,221
Executed 28,267 32,266 96,225 156,758
Killed in fighting 143,253 240,410 49,042 432,705
Starved to death 131,072 89,916 121,982 342,970
Suicide 3,375 3,952 1,675 9,002
"Struggled" to death 27,951 48,840 15,940 97,731

TOTAL 427,478 480,361 299,648 1,207,387

How are Tibetan political prisoners treated?


The following quote is from a 1988 news story that appeared in _The
Washington Post_. It is based on the statements of two former prisoners
arrested on March 5, 1988 during a large pro-independence demonstration.
Both former prisoners were held at the Gutsa detention center near Lhasa.

[The released lay prisoner] said that interrogators beat seven monks
from one monastery, and then stuffed all seven into a small confined
water channel. The guards then "stomped all over their bodies," he said.

"They beat us with whatever was at their disposal, including wash
basins and mugs," he said. "They kicked us and used pistol butts and
...wooden sticks on us."

The released prisoner said that interrogators used electric cattle
prods as an instrument of torture. Some prisoners also underwent the
"Chinese rope torture," he said.

"I saw people hanging from ropes tied to their arms behind their
backs, suspended with their feet off the ground. Two of the people I
saw had their shoulders dislocated by the rope. Many became
unconscious as a result."

Both former prisoners said that those who were treated most harshly
in the prisons were Tibetan nuns. Most of the imprisoned nuns have
been released from prison but were said to be reluctant to talk about
the experience.

The most brutal of the guards were said to be Tibetans, not Chinese.
[Southerland88]

A recent Amnesty International report includes a list 628 Tibetans who spent
at least some time in prison during the period 1992-94 as result of their
political beliefs. [Strib95]

The 10th Panchen Lama gave the following account of human rights conditions
in Tibet in a 1987 speech delivered in Beijing:

In 1959 there were rebellions in Tibet.... People were arrested and
jailed indiscriminately. There were no interrogations. On sight
Tibetans were taken to jail and beaten. Things like this are still
common in Tibet....

If there was a film made on all the atrocities perpetrated in Qinghai
province, it would shock the viewers. In Golok area, many people were
killed and their dead bodies were rolled down the hill into a big
ditch. The soldiers told the family members and relatives of the dead
people that they should all celebrate since the rebels had been wiped
out. They were even forced to dance on the dead bodies. Soon after, they
were also massacred with machine guns. They were all buried there....

In Amdo and Kham, people were subjected unspeakable atrocities. People
were shot in groups of ten or twenty. I know that it is not good to
speak about these things. But such actions have left deep wounds in the
minds of the people.

and people call the dalai lama evil,this goes to show how asleep people really are,now who is really bad?

chris
01-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Do you know what happened to the panchen lama?

Look, I hate China, China can kiss me ass for all I care. I just find it hilarious that people are going around declaring 'free tibet' as though the alternative is freedom.

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 08:02 PM
Look, I hate China, China can kiss me ass for all I care. I just find it hilarious that people are going around declaring 'free tibet' as though the alternative is freedom.

I think they feel they are just trying to help,but are not looking at the picture picture,but IMO i feel it is better than doing nothing :)

And yes the alternative would be a lot better than it is now and how it was years ago,life in Britain and many countries was pretty dismal in the working class area many years ago also,and still are,at the end of the day Tibet belongs to the Tibetan people,what's up is china not big enough.

Tibet would be a damn site better than it is now and a lot freer.if the Chinese just buggered off.IMHO

kasalt
01-01-2009, 08:06 PM
Irony of ironies. While the Dalai Lama is demanding freedom of religion for the people of Tibet, he is refusing to allow them to have it himself. He now opposes the worship of a deity called Dorje Shugden (http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/dorje-shugden/), a deity he himself once worshiped:

http://images.westernshugdensociety.org/primary/dorje_shugden_medium.jpg

Dorje Shugden


"For centuries, Dorje Shugden has been revered by the greatest and most important Buddhist masters--many of whom are the most renound masters of Tibetan history. One of them was the Dalai Lama's teacher.

If the Dalai Lama thinks that all great masters were mistaken, he denies them their qualification as well. They would not be great masters.

Question by interviewer: 'All the great masters who have worshipped the deity for centuries, were they all wrong?'

Dalai Lama: 'Wrong. Yes, wrong!'

That is all His Holiness says about the old masters."
Physical violence has been threatened against those who persist in worshiping Dorje Shugden, and in some cases, those threats have been actualized.

Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, Part 1 - YouTube

Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, Part 2 - YouTube

I particularly liked this quote from the president of the Tibetan Regional Counsel, from Pt. 3:
"People and deities are exactly the same. There are official deities and non-official deities. Only deities that are recognized by the government may be worshiped. Worshiping deities that are not recognized by the government are against the law."
So much for freedom of religion...

Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, Part 3 - YouTube

Dorje Shugden and Dalai Lama Controversy - YouTube

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 08:13 PM
Irony of ironies. While the Dalai Lama is demanding freedom of religion for the people of Tibet, he is refusing to allow them to have it himself. He now opposes the worship of a deity called Dorje Shugden (http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/dorje-shugden/), a deity he himself once worshiped:

http://images.westernshugdensociety.org/primary/dorje_shugden_medium.jpg

Dorje Shugden


"For centuries, Dorje Shugden has been revered by the greatest and most important Buddhist masters--many of whom are the most renound masters of Tibetan history. One of them was the Dalai Lama's teacher.

If the Dalai Lama thinks that all great masters were mistaken, he denies them their qualification as well. They would not be great masters.

Question by interviewer: 'All the great masters who have worshipped the deity for centuries, were they all wrong?'

Dalai Lama: 'Wrong. Yes, wrong!'

That is all His Holiness says about the old masters."
Physical violence has been threatened against those who persist in worshiping Dorje Shugden, and in some cases, those threats have been actualized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aboblx-0zAs

I particularly liked this quote from the president of the Tibetan Regional Counsel, from Pt. 3:
"People and deities are exactly the same. There are official deities and non-official deities. Only deities that are recognized by the government may be worshiped. Worshiping deities that are not recognized by the government are against the law."
So much for freedom of religion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dILwsmwCQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC-F6VUyGZM


Let go,do not be attached why stir up hatred,people who let themselves get caught up in the nonsense are not practising the teachings of the buddha,you do your practise in private,how can some one tell you what practise to do,all the dorje shugden issue as been blown all out of proportion and practising Buddhists should know better including the dalai lama and other spiritual leaders and practitioners of the teachings of buddha.LET IT GO.

Buddhas have manifested in the form of various Dharma Protectors, such as Mahakala, Kalarupa, Kalindewi, and Dorje Shugden. From the time of Je Tsongkhapa until the first Panchen Lama, Losang Chokyi Gyaltsen, the principal Dharma Protector of Je Tsongkhapa's lineage was Kalarupa. Later, however, it was felt by many high Lamas that Dorje Shugden had become the principal Dharma Protector of this tradition.

kasalt
01-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Critical Links to Buddhism and Lamaism

Table of Links

Buddhism: Violence and War (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW1)
Buddhist Violence in Sri Lanka (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW2)
Buddhist Violence in Burma (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW3)
Buddhist Violence in Bhutan (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4)
Buddhist Violence in Cambodia (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4a)
Buddhist Violence in Laos (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4b)
Buddhist Violence in Thailand (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW5)
Buddhist Violence in Kashmir (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW6)
Buddhist Violence in Korea (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW7)

The XIV. Dalai Lama (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL1)
Violence and War (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL2)
The Hindutva-Connection (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#Hindu)
Atomic Bomb (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL3)
Sexuality (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL3a)
Neuroscience (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#neuroscience)
Vegetarian? (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL4)

The Kalachakra Tantra (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#KALA)

The Shambhala Prophecy (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#SHAM)

Lamaist Warrior-Gods -Heroes and -Kings (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WARRIOR)

The Grand Sorcerers (Maha Siddhas) (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#MAHASIDDHA)

Lamaist Warrior Monks (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WARMONKS)

Buddhocracy (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BUDDHOCRACY)

Tantric Buddhism – a critical approach (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TANTRA)

Sexual abuse by Buddhist Monks (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#SEXABUSE)

Child-Monks, Child-Abuse (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#CHILD)

Ancient and Modern Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET1)
The Myths within History (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET2)
Social Reality in Ancient Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET3)
The CIA and Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET4)
The Making of Modern Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET5)
Tibet and World Politics (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET6)

Zen, Nechiren, Samurai and Fascism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#ZEN)

Buddhism, Fascism and the Nazi-Tibet-Connection (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#NAZI)

Shoko Asahara: Making the Buddhist Apocalypse (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#ASAHARA)

Hollywood-Buddhism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#HOLLYWOOD)

The Karmapa affair (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#KARMAPA)

The Dorje Shugden affair (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#Shugden)

Christian Critiques of Lamaism and Buddhism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#CHRISTIAN)

Critiques from within (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WITHIN)

marpat
01-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Irony of ironies. While the Dalai Lama is demanding freedom of religion for the people of Tibet, he is refusing to allow them to have it himself. He now opposes the worship of a deity called Dorje Shugden (http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/dorje-shugden/), a deity he himself once worshiped:

http://images.westernshugdensociety.org/primary/dorje_shugden_medium.jpg

Dorje Shugden


"For centuries, Dorje Shugden has been revered by the greatest and most important Buddhist masters--many of whom are the most renound masters of Tibetan history. One of them was the Dalai Lama's teacher.

If the Dalai Lama thinks that all great masters were mistaken, he denies them their qualification as well. They would not be great masters.

Question by interviewer: 'All the great masters who have worshipped the deity for centuries, were they all wrong?'

Dalai Lama: 'Wrong. Yes, wrong!'

That is all His Holiness says about the old masters."
Physical violence has been threatened against those who persist in worshiping Dorje Shugden, and in some cases, those threats have been actualized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aboblx-0zAs

I particularly liked this quote from the president of the Tibetan Regional Counsel, from Pt. 3:
"People and deities are exactly the same. There are official deities and non-official deities. Only deities that are recognized by the government may be worshiped. Worshiping deities that are not recognized by the government are against the law."
So much for freedom of religion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dILwsmwCQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC-F6VUyGZM

I think the real reason for the ban is that the Dalai lama feels this spirit is a personal threat. If his people worship a spirit that he feels is hostile towards him then this will increase the risk to him. In light of this I would see the ban as an effort to stamp out this threat to his person rather than being based on some spiritual reason such as false worship, etc.

I guess he still has some human weakness and fear of attack from a hostile spirit worshipped by his own people will not help matters.

chris
01-01-2009, 08:21 PM
Tibet belongs to the Tibetan people,what's up is china not big enough.

Well Tibet was only around in that style for less than 70 years...Before that it belonged to various dynasties way before white people had set foot in Canada. So I don't really see the big deal with Tibet, obviously they are oppressed but I think we need to look into the mirror before getting all overcome with righteous indignation.

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Well Tibet was only around in that style for less than 70 years...Before that it belonged to various dynasties way before white people had set foot in Canada. So I don't really see the big deal with Tibet, obviously they are oppressed but I think we need to look into the mirror before getting all overcome with righteous indignation.

But i am not the one slating anyone,people need to grow up and stop throwing fuel on the fire there are a lot more injustices going on in the world.

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Critical Links to Buddhism and Lamaism

Table of Links

Buddhism: Violence and War (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW1)
Buddhist Violence in Sri Lanka (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW2)
Buddhist Violence in Burma (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW3)
Buddhist Violence in Bhutan (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4)
Buddhist Violence in Cambodia (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4a)
Buddhist Violence in Laos (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW4b)
Buddhist Violence in Thailand (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW5)
Buddhist Violence in Kashmir (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW6)
Buddhist Violence in Korea (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BVW7)

The XIV. Dalai Lama (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL1)
Violence and War (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL2)
The Hindutva-Connection (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#Hindu)
Atomic Bomb (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL3)
Sexuality (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL3a)
Neuroscience (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#neuroscience)
Vegetarian? (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#DALAIL4)

The Kalachakra Tantra (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#KALA)

The Shambhala Prophecy (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#SHAM)

Lamaist Warrior-Gods -Heroes and -Kings (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WARRIOR)

The Grand Sorcerers (Maha Siddhas) (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#MAHASIDDHA)

Lamaist Warrior Monks (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WARMONKS)

Buddhocracy (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#BUDDHOCRACY)

Tantric Buddhism – a critical approach (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TANTRA)

Sexual abuse by Buddhist Monks (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#SEXABUSE)

Child-Monks, Child-Abuse (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#CHILD)

Ancient and Modern Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET)

General (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET1)
The Myths within History (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET2)
Social Reality in Ancient Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET3)
The CIA and Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET4)
The Making of Modern Tibet (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET5)
Tibet and World Politics (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#TIBET6)

Zen, Nechiren, Samurai and Fascism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#ZEN)

Buddhism, Fascism and the Nazi-Tibet-Connection (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#NAZI)

Shoko Asahara: Making the Buddhist Apocalypse (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#ASAHARA)

Hollywood-Buddhism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#HOLLYWOOD)

The Karmapa affair (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#KARMAPA)

The Dorje Shugden affair (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#Shugden)

Christian Critiques of Lamaism and Buddhism (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#CHRISTIAN)

Critiques from within (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/links.htm#WITHIN)

any person who kills or commits violence with an angry mind is not practising anything but murder,no matter what label you put on it.

Why Evil?
People have free will to commit wrongs. Evil results as cravings, attachments, and ignorance accumulate through perpetual rebirths, thus perpetuating greed, hatred, and violence.

The law of karma explains why each individual has a unique mental disposition, a unique physical appearance, and unique experiences. These are the various effects of the countless actions that each individual has performed in the past. We cannot find any two people who have created exactly the same history of actions throughout their past lives, and so we cannot find two people with identical states of mind, identical experiences, and identical physical appearances.

It is because of our karma or actions that we are born in this impure, contaminated world and experience so many difficulties and problems. Our actions are impure because our mind is contaminated by the inner poison of self-grasping. This is the fundamental reason why we experience suffering.

Suffering is created by our own actions or karma – it is not given to us as a punishment. We suffer because we have accumulated many non-virtuous actions in our previous lives. The source of these non-virtuous actions are our own delusions such as anger, attachment, and self-grasping ignorance.

runciter
01-01-2009, 08:46 PM
It is because of our karma or actions that we are born in this impure, contaminated world and experience so many difficulties and problems. Our actions are impure because our mind is contaminated by the inner poison of self-grasping. This is the fundamental reason why we experience suffering.

Suffering is created by our own actions or karma – it is not given to us as a punishment. We suffer because we have accumulated many non-virtuous actions in our previous lives. The source of these non-virtuous actions are our own delusions such as anger, attachment, and self-grasping ignorance.

what if our world is contaminated by something external?

i wouldn't exclude this possibility..

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 08:52 PM
what if our world is contaminated by something external?

i wouldn't exclude this possibility..

Nothing exists outside of your mind :) ultimately that is.

"What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no colour, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects."

No holy war concept in Buddhism. Killing is breaking a key moral precept in Buddhism. One is strictly forbidden to kill another person in the name of religion, a religious leader or whatsoever religious pretext or worldly excuse.

chris
01-01-2009, 09:30 PM
But i am not the one slating anyone,people need to grow up and stop throwing fuel on the fire there are a lot more injustices going on in the world.

Well this forum is mostly about discussing how popular culture and leaders are really fronts and seeing as the Dalai Lama was/is a CIA frontman, this thread is well suited.

kasalt
01-01-2009, 09:59 PM
Dalai Lama's Tibet before 1950 - YouTube

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 10:28 PM
Well this forum is mostly about discussing how popular culture and leaders are really fronts and seeing as the Dalai Lama was/is a CIA frontman, this thread is well suited.

The dalai lama is a leader of a country just like all the other leaders,whatever it is i would not let it worry you,there is nothing you can do about it,what is he going to do to you,all our lives are controlled to a a extent,but the dalai lama is the least of any ones worry s.

They are all just LABELS.:)

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 10:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcMI7erUKRY

I could post a lot worse atrocities from other parts of the world including china from around the 1950s and 40s era, and i am sure they(Tibetans) have learnt from their mistakes,but everyone will always still make them.

Ian2day
01-01-2009, 11:25 PM
What about the Wheel of Life Shaolin Monks?

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 11:27 PM
What about the Wheel of Life Shaolin Monks?

What about it :confused: :)

Ian2day
01-01-2009, 11:45 PM
What about it :confused: :)

Its just that I saw a British Shaolin monk from the wheel of life, telling people when faced with a difficulty to focus on something really emotionally bad and hold onto the feeling that the thought generated inside of them. Now surely focussing on a bad feeling will make it manifest physically in the body. In fact even though it did bring me inner peace for a while. I decided after that this was in fact not a good idea. As I envisaged it as not doing my body any long term good to hold onto bad feelings from the past. So I decided that instead, when faced with a challenge. I would do as I have always done and focus on positive life experiences as a way to meet negativity in my life head on. Balance of the ying and yang is surely peferably to focusing on negativty when in an emotionally or other challenging time.

lightgiver
01-01-2009, 11:57 PM
Its just that I saw a British Shaolin monk from the wheel of life, telling people when faced with a difficulty to focus on something really emotionally bad and hold onto the feeling that the thought generated inside of them. Now surely focussing on a bad feeling will make it manifest physically in the body. In fact even though it did bring me inner peace for a while. I decided after that this was in fact not a good idea. As I envisaged it as not doing my body any long term good to hold onto bad feelings from the past. So I decided that instead, when faced with a challenge. I would do as I have always done and focus on positive life experiences as a way to meet negativity in my life head on. Balance of the ying and yang is surely peferably to focusing on negativty when in an emotionally or other challenging time.

Now surely focussing on a bad feeling will make it manifest physically in the body.

No not really,

Their are meditations that specifically focus on death and impermanence,to help you understand more clearly that life is fleeting and transitory in nature,and you will age get sick or some other mis fortune, but your body will decay and die and so will everything around you eventually,and when you realise this trivial matters cease.

and also their are other meditations you can take on peoples or animals suffering,if you feel up to it,it is good to do,you will reap good effects if you do it with altruism.

everything is impermanent and so is misery.i try to adopt the middle way approach if i can,but i am far from perfect but i try and stay on the path even though i wander sometimes,but i always in the end come back to the path,because in my heart i know it is right, though sometimes i have doubts,which is healthy as the Buddha said him self,


"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Its just that I saw a British Shaolin monk from the wheel of life, telling people when faced with a difficulty to focus on something really emotionally bad and hold onto the feeling that the thought generated inside of them. Now surely focussing on a bad feeling will make it manifest physically in the body. In fact even though it did bring me inner peace for a while. I decided after that this was in fact not a good idea. As I envisaged it as not doing my body any long term good to hold onto bad feelings from the past. So I decided that instead, when faced with a challenge. I would do as I have always done and focus on positive life experiences as a way to meet negativity in my life head on. Balance of the ying and yang is surely peferably to focusing on negativty when in an emotionally or other challenging time.

I do like this quote,

"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."

INDIAN POEM

"This day is a special day, it is yours.
Yesterday slipped away, it cannot be filled anymore with meaning.
About tomorrow nothing is known.
But this day, today, is yours, make use of it.
Today you can make someone happy.
Today you can help another.
This day is a special day, it is yours."

" There are those who look on death with a naive, thoughtless cheerfulness, thinking that for some unknown reason death will work out all right for them, and that it is nothing to worry about. When I think of them, I am reminded of what one Tibetan master says: “People often make the mistake of being frivolous about death and think, ‘Oh well, death happens to everybody. It’s not a big deal, it’s natural. I’ll be fine.’” That’s a nice theory until one is dying."
Sogyal Rinpoche from Death & Dying

One thing is GUARANTEED IN THIS LIFE after all we are just walking skeletons.

"No matter where you prepare your last bed,Walking Skeletons
No matter where the sword of death falls,
The terrifying messengers of death descend,
Horrid and giant; and glare with thirsty eyes.

Friends and family, weeping, surround you.
Eyeing your wealth and possessions,
They offer prayers and enshroud you.
Unprepared, you pass away;
Helpless and alone."

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhxjzc9uuE
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhxjzc9uuE

chris
02-01-2009, 01:26 AM
The dalai lama is a leader of a country just like all the other leaders,whatever it is i would not let it worry you,there is nothing you can do about it,what is he going to do to you,all our lives are controlled to a a extent,but the dalai lama is the least of any ones worry s.

They are all just LABELS.:)

I'm not worried about him at all, I'm just saying he's an asshat

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 01:28 AM
I'm not worried about him at all, I'm just saying he's an asshat

How do you know he is?whatever a ass hat may be?do you know him personally?:)

Paths that lead to the lower realms. Non-virtuous actions are countless, but most of them are included within the ten: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, hurtful speech, idle gossip, covetousness, malice, and holding wrong views.

Ian2day
02-01-2009, 01:42 AM
I do like this quote,

"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."

INDIAN POEM

"This day is a special day, it is yours.
Yesterday slipped away, it cannot be filled anymore with meaning.
About tomorrow nothing is known.
But this day, today, is yours, make use of it.
Today you can make someone happy.
Today you can help another.
This day is a special day, it is yours."

" There are those who look on death with a naive, thoughtless cheerfulness, thinking that for some unknown reason death will work out all right for them, and that it is nothing to worry about. When I think of them, I am reminded of what one Tibetan master says: “People often make the mistake of being frivolous about death and think, ‘Oh well, death happens to everybody. It’s not a big deal, it’s natural. I’ll be fine.’” That’s a nice theory until one is dying."
Sogyal Rinpoche from Death & Dying

One thing is GUARANTEED IN THIS LIFE after all we are just walking skeletons.

"No matter where you prepare your last bed,Walking Skeletons
No matter where the sword of death falls,
The terrifying messengers of death descend,
Horrid and giant; and glare with thirsty eyes.

Friends and family, weeping, surround you.
Eyeing your wealth and possessions,
They offer prayers and enshroud you.
Unprepared, you pass away;
Helpless and alone."

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhxjzc9uuEhttp://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhxjzc9uuE

Reading that was just the pick me up I needed! :D

It would be nice to have the strength to investigate more the spiritual side of things. However I seem to be drawn like a moth to idle distractions all of the time.

le chuck
02-01-2009, 01:44 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/mickyjay/NaziLama.jpg

I think it's relevant the main Jesuit university in Columbia reps the Lama on its front page
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/mickyjay/DalaiLamaJesuit.jpg


Look at his face above, he looks like he is having a good S**T :D

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 01:44 AM
Reading that was just the pick me up I needed! :D

It would be nice to have the strength to investigate more the spiritual side of things. However I seem to be drawn like a moth to idle distractions all of the time.

Doing Dharma is far from idle distraction,worldly activity's go on forever,your human incarnation does not ;):)

Rely on the teaching, not on the person;
Rely on the meaning, not on the words;
Rely on the definitive meaning, not on the provisional;
Rely on your wisdom mind, not on your ordinary mind.

Buddha taught:

"My teaching is not a philosophy. It is the result of direct experience...
My teaching is a means of practice, not something to hold onto or worship.
My teaching is like a raft used to cross the river.
Only a fool would carry the raft around after he had already reached the other shore of liberation."

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 01:45 AM
Look at his face above, he looks like he is having a good S**T :D

Just to explain, grinding the enemy into dust is my delusions, perverse minds view kind mothers as external enemy's....therefore destroy the delusion that brings about suffering, the delusion of self grasping.

Paths that lead to the lower realms. Non-virtuous actions are countless, but most of them are included within the ten: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, hurtful speech, idle gossip, covetousness, malice, and holding wrong views.


"It is natural for the immature to harm others.
Getting angry with them is like resenting a fire for burning."

allure
02-01-2009, 01:53 AM
As soon as I seen Penn & Teller I decided not to even bother watching. Talk about pieces of shit!

chris
02-01-2009, 01:54 AM
How do you know he is?whatever a ass hat may be?do you know him personally?:)

Do I need to know Sean Hannity to know he's an asshat? At least he's not going around pretending to be spiritual...

Here is how it works, if they didn't pick the Dalai Lama, they would have got some other smuck. The Dalai Lama probably thought it was a good idea and may still do but he's been played big time and he was never a saint to begin with (far from it).

Does he like to meditate? Of course, he and his crew and deep into meditation and explorations of consciousness. He's no godman though, he's become a false profit. I've had people try to tell me that he's like superman but wear glasses to trick people like Clark Kent.

The Tibetan buddhists have brought interesting things to light. Thanks to them, we know that our brains reshape completely and through meditation, their brains have incredible gamma wave activity which 'knits far flung neurons together' as it says in the study. Not only that but they've proved through meditation that it increases cortial thickness and overall grey matter in the brain.

Still, the Dalai Lama is an asshat, a corporate stooge that has not the slightest understanding of geopolitics. Imagine coming from Tibet, you would have no idea how sophisticated the west will play you against it's other enemies. All he sees is a popular 'resistance' movement (which sounds a lot like racism seperatism) and people getting interested in his philosophies.

If the Dalai Lama had no interest in pissing off China, people in the West would have never even heard of him.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 01:56 AM
Do I need to know Sean Hannity to know he's an asshat? At least he's not going around pretending to be spiritual...

Here is how it works, if they didn't pick the Dalai Lama, they would have got some other smuck. The Dalai Lama probably thought it was a good idea and may still do but he's been played big time and he was never a saint to begin with (far from it).

Does he like to meditate? Of course, he and his crew and deep into meditation and explorations of consciousness. He's no godman though, he's become a false profit. I've had people try to tell me that he's like superman but wear glasses to trick people like Clark Kent.

The Tibetan buddhists have brought interesting things to light. Thanks to them, we know that our brains reshape completely and through meditation, their brains have incredible gamma wave activity which 'knits far flung neurons together' as it says in the study. Not only that but they've proved through meditation that it increases cortial thickness and overall grey matter in the brain.

Still, the Dalai Lama is an asshat, a corporate stooge that has not the slightest understanding of geopolitics. Imagine coming from Tibet, you would have no idea how sophisticated the west will play you against it's other enemies. All he sees is a popular 'resistance' movement (which sounds a lot like racism seperatism) and people getting interested in his philosophies.

If the Dalai Lama had no interest in pissing off China, people in the West would have never even heard of him.

sorry i do not know sean whats his name and i do not even really know the dalai lama,but one thing is for sure you have a lot of anger.

"When reason ends, then anger begins.
Therefore, anger is a sign of weakness."

"To be angry is to let others' mistakes punish yourself.
To forgive others is to be good to yourself.
Master ChengYen

chris
02-01-2009, 01:58 AM
How do you know he is?whatever a ass hat may be?do you know him personally?:)

Paths that lead to the lower realms. Non-virtuous actions are countless, but most of them are included within the ten: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, hurtful speech, idle gossip, covetousness, malice, and holding wrong views.

sorry i do not know sean whats his name and i do not even really know the dalai lama,but one thing is for sure you have a lot of anger.

lol anger? I'm just saying the truth...

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 02:02 AM
lol anger? I'm just saying the truth...

What is truth?the dalai lama being CIA OR IRA is gonna make zilch all difference to any ones life,unless you allow it,so i would let it go and move on,just like i do :)

and he is probably being used,but that's for the dalai lama to sort out,it aint gonna effect your life.

chris
02-01-2009, 02:07 AM
What is truth?the dalai lama being CIA OR IRA is gonna make zilch all difference to any ones life,unless you allow it,so i would let it go and move on,just like i do :)

Zilch difference? It can make a lot of difference to many peoples lives...

I'm not so much interested in the Dalai Lama, I'm more interested in how people can get conned so easily by establishment fronts. This is what we are discussing here...

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 02:14 AM
Zilch difference? It can make a lot of difference to many peoples lives...

I'm not so much interested in the Dalai Lama, I'm more interested in how people can get conned so easily by establishment fronts. This is what we are discussing here...

so what are YOU gonna do about it?;) and i said if YOU ALLOW it to.

do you support the tibetan people with anything?

Of course we are all conned that's why we are here;)we even con our selves sometimes;)

Peace for 2009 chris.

chris
02-01-2009, 02:24 AM
How do you know he is?whatever a ass hat may be?do you know him personally?:)

Paths that lead to the lower realms. Non-virtuous actions are countless, but most of them are included within the ten: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, hurtful speech, idle gossip, covetousness, malice, and holding wrong views.

so what are YOU gonna do about it?;) and i said if YOU ALLOW it to.

I'll expose the Dalai Lama as a CIA asset to those people caught up in false movements.

do you support the tibetan people with anything?

Yes, the people, not the preist class...I want them to have their rights just as much as I want my rights. However, I must free myself and my land before we can do anything for other nations. Otherwise we are just being hypocrits.

EDIT-However, I dissagree that you can dictate to a nation how to rule their people, all you can do is lead by example.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 02:26 AM
I'll expose the Dalai Lama as a CIA asset to those people caught up in false movements.

Thats your karma then;)



Yes, the people, not the preist class...I want them to have their rights just as much as I want my rights. However, I must free myself and my land before we can do anything for other nations. Otherwise we are just being hypocrits.

Yes we must free our selves before we can free others:)but its the people who allow themselves to be dictated to,just like the people in the west and come to think of it everywhere.

PS how do you do the quoting malarkey,you know para phrasing the comments,because i do not know how to do it.

as you can see i have failed miserably.

EDIT,also chris what if you go around calling the DL a CIA agent and then you find out he is not.

Its the CIA you need to be looking at,they will take advantage of any situation.

The United States funded training and arms for the guerrillas in Tibet and the United States prior to the uprising and for several years following. From 1959 to 1964, Tibetan guerrillas were secretly trained at Camp Hale by the CIA.

The Tibetan project was codenamed ST Circus, and it was similar to the CIA operation that trained dissident Cubans in what later became the Bay of Pigs Invasion. In all, around 259 Tibetans were trained at Camp Hale. Some were parachuted back into Tibet to link up with local resistance groups (most perished); others were sent overland into Tibet on intelligence gathering missions; and yet others were instrumental in setting up the CIA-funded Tibetan resistance force that operated out of Mustang, in northern Nepal (1959-1974).

According to the Tibetan Government in Exile[1] and captured Chinese documents an estimated 86,000 Tibetans died in the events surrounding the 1959 uprising. The Norbulingka was struck with an estimated 800 shells, killing an unknown number of Tibetans within and camped around the palace,

would you feel safe?

runciter
02-01-2009, 08:24 AM
Nothing exists outside of your mind :) ultimately that is.

"What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no colour, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects."

No holy war concept in Buddhism. Killing is breaking a key moral precept in Buddhism. One is strictly forbidden to kill another person in the name of religion, a religious leader or whatsoever religious pretext or worldly excuse.

the law of karma should be abolished.

pinkfreud
02-01-2009, 08:30 AM
the law of karma should be abolished.

?

do you even know what karma is.. it's not the 'eye for an eye tooth for a tooth' ideology modern philosophy has thrust upon us. karma merely is, and implies that what you give out, in the form of energy, will be reciprocated in pretty much the same way. that's why you have reptilians feeding on fear, and taking a step back when a human emanates positivity, courage and love. that is karma, it is nothing to do with revenge, violence and so forth. also, it's connected to the aspect of 'as above, so below'.

enlightened buddhists know this, that's why they're so peaceful. most, if not all, don't have a vengeful cell in their bodies.

runciter
02-01-2009, 09:04 AM
?

do you even know what karma is.. it's not the 'eye for an eye tooth for a tooth' ideology modern philosophy has thrust upon us. karma merely is, and implies that what you give out, in the form of energy, will be reciprocated in pretty much the same way. that's why you have reptilians feeding on fear, and taking a step back when a human emanates positivity, courage and love. that is karma, it is nothing to do with revenge, violence and so forth. also, it's connected to the aspect of 'as above, so below'.

enlightened buddhists know this, that's why they're so peaceful. most, if not all, don't have a vengeful cell in their bodies.

maybe we should aknowledge how hellish is this reality, instead of finding metaphysical justifications for all the suffering, violence, heartless cruelty and injustice of this world.. if we are the co-creators, how can we accept this?

the past and the future exist only in the present, everything is constantly recreated.

pinkfreud
02-01-2009, 09:44 AM
maybe we should aknowledge how hellish is this reality, instead of finding metaphysical justifications for all the suffering, violence, heartless cruelty and injustice of this world.. if we are the co-creators, how can we accept this?

the past and the future exist only in the present, everything is constantly recreated.

this hellish reality is already coming to the fore, and more are realising it with each passing day. humans have been made to live in fear for the most part, and because of this situation we seem to digging a deeper hole for ourselves by taking everything the reptilians and other races do in our stride; again- that's karma, whether it's intentional or not.

karma is not a 'justification' for anything- it is universal, and does exist whether you choose to believe in it or not. the time continuum (illusion) also has nothing to do with karma, what made you relate the two, if i may ask?

runciter
02-01-2009, 09:54 AM
this hellish reality is already coming to the fore, and more are realising it with each passing day.

karma is not a 'justification' for anything- it is universal, and does exist whether you choose to believe in it or not. the time continuum (illusion) also has nothing to do with karma, what made you relate the two, if i may ask?

i don't believe in karma, i don't like it because it implies some kind of guilt in innocent victims.

i can experience only this time continuum, in my present condition, never been in another one.

pinkfreud
02-01-2009, 10:03 AM
i don't believe in karma, i don't like it because it implies some kind of guilt in innocent victims.

i can experience only this time continuum, in my present condition, never been in another one.


again, you're reflecting what so called modern philosophy and twisted interpretations of ancient wisdom have been striving to make humans believe. karma does not recognise the 'strong' and 'weak', or the 'oppressors' or 'oppressed'. it also can't be abolished like you said earlier because it isn't a man made law- it's source is infinite.

as for the time notion, i don't think any of us have been in another continuum, because as of now our senses are very limited to say the least. if you do allow yourself to explore other realms, using tools such as meditation (which buddhist monks do), you will see that time as we know it is just an illusion, like everything else.

i leave it to you to decide.

decode reality
02-01-2009, 10:03 AM
Thanks for posting the short film, I will read through the thread later.

runciter
02-01-2009, 10:11 AM
again, you're reflecting what so called modern philosophy and twisted interpretations of ancient wisdom have been striving to make humans believe. karma does not recognise the 'strong' and 'weak', or the 'oppressors' or 'oppressed'. it also can't be abolished like you said earlier because it isn't a man made law- it's source is infinite.


aren't you the creator of your reality? there's no such thing as karma in mine.


as for the time notion, i don't think any of us have been in another continuum, because as of now our senses are very limited to say the least. if you do allow yourself to explore other realms, using tools such as meditation (which buddhist monks do), you will see that time as we know it is just an illusion, like everything else.

i leave it to you to decide.


my reality is as big as this poor planet, my time is the time of mother earth.

chris
02-01-2009, 02:37 PM
EDIT,also chris what if you go around calling the DL a CIA agent and then you find out he is not.


But he is CIA...This is pretty much well accepted. Unless you are trying to say that the NWO is trying to discredit him by claiming he's got CIA connections...If that was the case then they could have just not reported on him and no one would have ever heard of him...

dalai lama cia - Google Search

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 08:30 PM
But he is CIA...This is pretty much well accepted. Unless you are trying to say that the NWO is trying to discredit him by claiming he's got CIA connections...If that was the case then they could have just not reported on him and no one would have ever heard of him...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=dalai+lama+cia&meta=

of course the dalai lama as had contact with the CIA,but as for working for them i would give that a wide berth if i was you,because it is a fruitless quest:)

In the Himalayan tradition, phowa (Tibetan) is the discipline that transfers the mindstream to the intended body. Upon the death of the Dalai Lama and consultation with the Nechung Oracle, a search for the Lama's reincarnation, or yangsi (yang srid), is conducted. Traditionally it has been the responsibility of the High Lamas of the Gelugpa Tradition and the Tibetan government to find his reincarnation. The process can take around two or three years to identify the Dalai Lama, and for the 14th Tenzin Gyatso it was four years before he was found. The search for the Dalai Lama has usually been limited historically to Tibet, although the third tulku was born in Mongolia. Tenzin Gyatso, though, has stated that there is a chance that he will not be reborn although if he is reborn it will not be in a country run by the People's Republic of China.

Once the High Lamas have found the home and the boy they believe to be the reincarnation, the boy undergoes a series of tests to affirm the rebirth. They present a number of artifacts belonging to the previous Dalai Lama and if the boy chooses the items which belonged to the previous Dalai Lama, this is seen as a sign, in conjunction with all of the other indications, that the boy is the reincarnation.

and like i said in a previous post,the CIA will take advantage of any situation.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

chris
02-01-2009, 08:37 PM
of course the dalai lama as had contact with the CIA,but as for working for them i would give that a wide berth if i was you,because it is a fruitless quest:)

He was and probably still is on their payroll...that means he works for them...

Why can't you accept new information about him?

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 08:40 PM
He was and probably still is on their payroll...that means he works for them...

Why can't you accept new information about him?

i can accept any information:) but whether it is the truth is another matter:)

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/concia.html

CIA once again playing the "great game" in Tibet?

The timing for another serious attempt to destabilize Chinese rule in Tibet would appear to be right for the CIA and Langley will undoubtedly keep all its options open.

The CIA conducted a large scale covert action campaign against the communist Chinese in Tibet starting in 1956. This led to a disastrous bloody uprising in 1959, leaving tens of thousands of Tibetans dead, while the Dalai Lama and about 100,000 followers were forced to flee across the treacherous Himalayan passes to India and Nepal.

"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."

zyphus
02-01-2009, 08:49 PM
A chapter in a (free online) book focuses on the Lama, entitled 'HELLO, DALAI!' from a title named 'Stripping The Gurus'. Well worth a read.

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dalai.asp

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 08:54 PM
A chapter in a (free online) book focuses on the Lama, entitled 'HELLO, DALAI!' from a title named 'Stripping The Gurus'. Well worth a read.

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dalai.asp

We want to get love, rather than give love.
We seek understanding, rather than trying to understand.
We seek self-confidence, rather than respecting others.
We seek praise and encouragement, rather than giving praise and encouragement .
We don't like criticism, but like to criticise others. :)

whitelightrabbit
02-01-2009, 08:56 PM
Tenzin Gyatso, though, has stated that there is a chance that he will not be reborn although if he is reborn it will not be in a country run by the People's Republic of China.

i think that's just to placate the chinese government who have made it illegal for the dalai lama to reincarnate there!


anyway the dalai lama is definately working for others, he has no choice. however, he reaches a lot of people and promotes peace and joy. i think he does a good job.

chris
02-01-2009, 08:57 PM
i can accept any information:) but whether it is the truth is another matter:)

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/concia.html

CIA once again playing the "great game" in Tibet?

The timing for another serious attempt to destabilize Chinese rule in Tibet would appear to be right for the CIA and Langley will undoubtedly keep all its options open.

The CIA conducted a large scale covert action campaign against the communist Chinese in Tibet starting in 1956. This led to a disastrous bloody uprising in 1959, leaving tens of thousands of Tibetans dead, while the Dalai Lama and about 100,000 followers were forced to flee across the treacherous Himalayan passes to India and Nepal.

"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."

Yes, thanks I know...Still, the CIA plays all sides. They fought against northan alliance in Afghanistan and now they are on their payroll...There's so many examples of this. The Dalai Lama was on the CIA payroll, are you denying this?

zyphus
02-01-2009, 09:04 PM
We want to get love, rather than give love.
We seek understanding, rather than trying to understand.
We seek self-confidence, rather than respecting others.
We seek praise and encouragement, rather than giving praise and encouragement .
We don't like criticism, but like to criticise others. :)

I posted a link to a chapter in an online book so people could have as many sides to the story as possible. I can't remember out rightly criticising anyone or ramming my beliefs down their throat. Neither did I directly quote out of context to back up a one sided argument.

I don't get your reply as I don't speak in tongues.

rhydra
02-01-2009, 09:21 PM
As with most arguments there is one side, there is the other side and there is the truth.

Tibet, Palestine, Sri Lanka etc.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 09:42 PM
I posted a link to a chapter in an online book so people could have as many sides to the story as possible. I can't remember out rightly criticising anyone or ramming my beliefs down their throat. Neither did I directly quote out of context to back up a one sided argument.

I don't get your reply as I don't speak in tongues.

There are always 2 sides 2 every story,so why print it ,do you know if its the truth,we all can counter things with other sorts of info,but then you end up going around in circles, a bit like samsara;) why are a lot of people obsessed whether the DL is working or worked for the CIA?,and i care not what path people follow or faith they practise,its up to them but before people criticise or put info up they know nothing about you should do a lot more research before you jump to any conclusions:)

and if you are not critical why put a critical link up which is one sided?

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 09:45 PM
Yes, thanks I know...Still, the CIA plays all sides. They fought against northan alliance in Afghanistan and now they are on their payroll...There's so many examples of this. The Dalai Lama was on the CIA payroll, are you denying this?

I do not know if the DL is or was on the CIA payroll,and i care not.

People make their own karma:)

zyphus
02-01-2009, 09:59 PM
There are always 2 sides 2 every story,so why print it

Could you possibly come up with a more contradictory comment?

do you know if its the truth

No, I don't know if it's the truth. Hence why I didn't quote things wildly out of context. I left it up to anyone who is going to read it to come to their own conclusions.

we all can counter things with other sorts of info,but then you end up going around in circles, a bit like samsara;)


It's called 'Another Opinion'. Do you believe in freedom of speech?

why are a lot of people obsessed whether the DL is working or worked for the CIA?

If you think I'm obsessed because I posted a link to a chapter in a book, then you are clearly over-exaggerating.

and i care not what path people follow or faith they practise,its up to them

That's nice of you.

but before people criticise or put info up they know nothing about you should do a lot more research before you jump to any conclusions:)

*Cough cough*

and if you are not critical why put a critical link up which is one sided?

I didn't say I wasn't critical. My exact response was.

I can't remember out rightly criticising anyone or ramming my beliefs down their throat.

Which was in direct answer to you and you alone. Don't take it out of context.

P.s. Sorry I had to multi-quote everything, but I could barely distinguish one sentence from the other in a hotch potch mess of a reply.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 10:06 PM
Could you possibly come up with a more contradictory comment?



No, I don't know if it's the truth. Hence why I didn't quote things wildly out of context. I left it up to anyone who is going to read it to come to their own conclusions.



It's called 'Another Opinion'. Do you believe in freedom of speech?



If you think I'm obsessed because I posted a link to a chapter in a book, then you are clearly over-exaggerating.



That's nice of you.



*Cough cough*



I didn't say I wasn't critical. My exact response was.



Which was in direct answer to you and you alone. Don't take it out of context.

P.s. Sorry I had to multi-quote everything, but I could barely distinguish one sentence from the other in a hotch potch mess of a reply.

I cram nothing down any ones throat:confused: i put info there ,of what i have come across over many years,people do not have to believe it, and i like hotch potch:)

Yeah their is freedom of speech and then their is BS as well,i am sure people are wise enough to make up their own minds:)

BYE BYE.

Whenever I meet people of unpleasant character
Or those overwhelmed by negativity, pain or suffering,
May I cherish and care for them as if I had found
A rare and precious treasure difficult to find.

http://www.buddhadharma.org/EightVerses/

zyphus
02-01-2009, 10:18 PM
I cram nothing down any ones throat:confused: i put info there

At last, you get it.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 10:22 PM
At last, you get it.

you are mis quoting,propaganda techniques do not work with me:)my info as come out of years of life experience,if i feel info are lies than i would not print them.

Whenever others, because of their jealousy, treat me badly
With abuse, insult, slander, or in other unjust ways,
May I accept this defeat myself
And offer the victory to others.

zyphus
02-01-2009, 10:37 PM
you are mis quoting,propaganda techniques do not work with me:)my info as come out of years of life experience,if i feel info are lies than i would not print them.


What on Gods green earth does that mean?

All that years of 'Life Experience' and you can't put a comprehendable sentence together.

All of this about 'going round in circles', yet you keep quoting me (And did from the off) and replying with passive aggressive crap that I would expect from a young child who doesn't get their way. Ending in a holier than thou, I'm saving the forum sign off.

For the love of Buddha, grow up.

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 10:42 PM
What on Gods green earth does that mean?

All that years of 'Life Experience' and you can't put a comprehendable sentence together.

All of this about 'going round in circles', yet you keep quoting me (And did from the off) and replying with passive aggressive crap that I would expect from a young child who doesn't get their way. Ending in a holier than thou, I'm saving the forum sign off.

For the love of Buddha, grow up.

You mean comprehensible.

comprehendable

you can understand it.
LG is anything but comprehendable.
we should make him be more comprehendable. If there is such a word?

chris
02-01-2009, 10:53 PM
Lightgiver, you may be a student of the Dalai Lama, he may have even inititated you into his own lineage and so you know how strong these lineages are. But this can give over to a false sense of trust.

Hasn't what we've been discussing not altered your perceptions of the situation in Tibet?

.

PS how do you do the quoting malarkey,you know para phrasing the comments,because i do not know how to do it.



I just copy/paste the persons quotebox and do it manually like that.

zyphus
02-01-2009, 10:56 PM
You mean comprehensible.

comprehendable

you can understand it.
LG is anything but comprehendable.
we should make him be more comprehendable. If there is such a word?

I don't think subtle humour is your strong point. Comprehendable is NOT a word.

P.s. Can you stop following me about now. I would have thought with all your 'Life experience', that you would know in the very least that it's poor manners to stalk someone..

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 11:11 PM
Lightgiver, you may be a student of the Dalai Lama, he may have even inititated you into his own lineage and so you know how strong these lineages are. But this can give over to a false sense of trust.

Hasn't what we've been discussing not altered your perceptions of the situation in Tibet?



I just copy/paste the persons quotebox and do it manually like that.

I am a student of no one chris and have not been initiated into anything the only thing i have kind of achieved in the sense of the east is a sensei degree and that's about it;)

and i have been aware of the tibet issue for many years.:)

thanks for the help with the malarkey.


and no it as not changed my views on tibet:)

chris
02-01-2009, 11:20 PM
I am a student of no one chris and have not been initiated into anything the only thing i have kind of achieved in the sense of the east is a sensei degree and that's about it;)

and i have been aware of the tibet issue for many years.:)

thanks for the help with the malarkey.


and no it as not changed my views on tibet:)

You haven't really stated your views, you've pretty much just appologised for the DL...

What are your views on Tibet? Do you think those of Tibetan origin should have their own country?

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 11:27 PM
You haven't really stated your views, you've pretty much just appologised for the DL...

What are your views on Tibet? Do you think those of Tibetan origin should have their own country?

I have not apologised for no one,i have nothing against the DL,why should i,there are a lot more deluded evil people in the world.

and IMHO Tibet belongs to the Tibetans,whether it is part of china or not,and the Chinese should just get out,and leave the Tibetans to their own affairs.

chris
02-01-2009, 11:54 PM
I have not apologised for no one,i have nothing against the DL,why should i,there are a lot more deluded evil people in the world.

and IMHO Tibet belongs to the Tibetans,whether it is part of china or not,and the Chinese should just get out,and leave the Tibetans to their own affairs.

What about the Han and the Jing? Should they have their own country?

lightgiver
02-01-2009, 11:56 PM
What about the Han and the Jing? Should they have their own country?

If they want:) please enlighten me further.

chris
03-01-2009, 12:04 AM
If they want:) please enlighten me further.

Well what I'm saying is that to say that the Tibetans should make a country for themselves, it's racism separatism.

It was England and India who broke Tibet off china in the first place and installed the lamas.

lightgiver
03-01-2009, 12:05 AM
Well what I'm saying is that to say that the Tibetans should make a country for themselves, it's racism separatism.

It was England and India who broke Tibet off china in the first place and installed the lamas.

Installed the lamas,do you have links please,save me looking:)

and does not every other country make a country for themselves.

kasalt
03-01-2009, 12:20 AM
While we're at it, I think a little truth-telling about the Chinese government's policy in Tibet is in order:

China's massacre in Tibet. Shooting at Tibetan pilgrims - YouTube

Chinese shooting of Tibetans sparks outcry

Survivors of Sept. 30 attack despair for relatives; incident was filmed


updated 5:50 p.m. CT, Mon., Oct. 23, 2006

NEW DELHI - They waded through Himalayan snowdrifts and climbed ice-covered rocky terrain for 17 days, cold, hungry and exhausted. Then came the shooting.

As 75 Tibetan refugees were making a secret trek across the border into Nepal, moving in single file across a mountain slope near the 19,000-foot-high Nanpa La Pass, Chinese border guards opened fire.

One woman — a 25-year-old Buddhist nun — was killed immediately in the Sept. 30 shooting, group members said. Chinese officials, in a statement, have said a second person also died...

“There was no warning of any kind. The bullets were so close I could hear them whizzing past,” Thubten Tsering, a Tibetan monk, told journalists in New Delhi on Monday. “We scattered and ran.”

Thubten is among 41 refugees who managed to reach India after the shooting. The refugees said 32 others, including nine children, were taken into custody by the guards and they don’t what happened to them.

“We don’t know where they are or what happened to them,” said Thubten, his chapped cheeks and exhausted face still bearing the scars of the ordeal...

Evidence on film
What separates the Sept. 30 shooting is that international mountaineers, on an expedition, saw the gunfire and filmed it.

Footage of the incident, shot by a Romanian cameraman, has led to an international outcry.

The video, released by Romania’s Pro TV, shows a distant figure that its narrator says is a Chinese border guard firing a rifle and a separate scene of a person in a line of figures walking through the snow then falling to the ground. An unidentified man near the camera can be heard saying in English, “They are shooting them like, like dogs.”

The Chinese government, in a report released two weeks ago by the official Xinhua News Agency, said the border guards fired in self-defense after clashing with about 70 people trying to leave the country illegally. It said one person died in the shooting and another died later. The statement didn’t say whether those involved were Tibetans.

The activist group International Campaign for Tibet, in a written statement, said the video proves the Chinese troops opened fire on unarmed Tibetans and not in self-defense.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15390844/

lightgiver
03-01-2009, 12:30 AM
While we're at it, I think a little truth-telling about the Chinese government's policy in Tibet is in order:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkMcj4vQtRU

Chinese shooting of Tibetans sparks outcry

Survivors of Sept. 30 attack despair for relatives; incident was filmed


updated 5:50 p.m. CT, Mon., Oct. 23, 2006

NEW DELHI - They waded through Himalayan snowdrifts and climbed ice-covered rocky terrain for 17 days, cold, hungry and exhausted. Then came the shooting.

As 75 Tibetan refugees were making a secret trek across the border into Nepal, moving in single file across a mountain slope near the 19,000-foot-high Nanpa La Pass, Chinese border guards opened fire.

One woman — a 25-year-old Buddhist nun — was killed immediately in the Sept. 30 shooting, group members said. Chinese officials, in a statement, have said a second person also died...

“There was no warning of any kind. The bullets were so close I could hear them whizzing past,” Thubten Tsering, a Tibetan monk, told journalists in New Delhi on Monday. “We scattered and ran.”

Thubten is among 41 refugees who managed to reach India after the shooting. The refugees said 32 others, including nine children, were taken into custody by the guards and they don’t what happened to them.

“We don’t know where they are or what happened to them,” said Thubten, his chapped cheeks and exhausted face still bearing the scars of the ordeal...

Evidence on film
What separates the Sept. 30 shooting is that international mountaineers, on an expedition, saw the gunfire and filmed it.

Footage of the incident, shot by a Romanian cameraman, has led to an international outcry.

The video, released by Romania’s Pro TV, shows a distant figure that its narrator says is a Chinese border guard firing a rifle and a separate scene of a person in a line of figures walking through the snow then falling to the ground. An unidentified man near the camera can be heard saying in English, “They are shooting them like, like dogs.”

The Chinese government, in a report released two weeks ago by the official Xinhua News Agency, said the border guards fired in self-defense after clashing with about 70 people trying to leave the country illegally. It said one person died in the shooting and another died later. The statement didn’t say whether those involved were Tibetans.

The activist group International Campaign for Tibet, in a written statement, said the video proves the Chinese troops opened fire on unarmed Tibetans and not in self-defense.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15390844/

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=veQIdaR0J70

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Slphx9Cymys

drakul
03-01-2009, 01:15 AM
Is there anybody who is not part of the agenda in your mind?

Why has he used non-violent protest? because his mission is to promote peace. If he believes that war is evil then why would he push people to do it?


The Dalai Lama, the most devout of nonviolent Buddhists justified the NATO bombing of the Serbs in 1999. He is an Agent of Influence alright. Why do you think Hollywood supports him so avidly?

I read the Lama's book - `Spiritual Materialism', but have come to the conclusion all his books are ghost written. When interviewed he mostly just giggles and makes simple statements.

chris
03-01-2009, 01:31 AM
Installed the lamas,do you have links please,save me looking:)

They installed pro-west lamas which who were divided...

http://indiainteracts.com/columnist/2008/03/25/Why-Indian-Marxists-are-silent-over-Tibet/

and does not every other country make a country for themselves.

Tibet was part of the Qing dynasty previously...Should Xinjiang have their own country? How about Texas?

If you mean by Tibetan ethnicity...Then, should the Han have their own country? Should black people have their own country?

What is it with Tibet and people knowing what's best for it?

lightgiver
03-01-2009, 01:43 AM
They installed pro-west lamas which who were divided...

http://indiainteracts.com/columnist/2008/03/25/Why-Indian-Marxists-are-silent-over-Tibet/



Tibet was part of the Qing dynasty previously...Should Xinjiang have their own country? How about Texas?

If you mean by Tibetan ethnicity...Then, should the Han have their own country? Should black people have their own country?

What is it with Tibet and people knowing what's best for it?

why do people never give the bigger picture and only snippets of truth:D

The general history of Tibet begins with the rule of Songtsän Gampo (604–50 CE) who united parts of the Yarlung River Valley and ruled Tibet as a kingdom. He also brought in many reforms and Tibetan power spread rapidly creating a large and powerful empire. In 640 he married Princess Wencheng, the niece of the powerful Chinese emperor Emperor Taizong of Tang China.

Under the next few kings who followed Songsten Gampo, Buddhism became established as the state religion and Tibetan power increased even further over large areas of Central Asia while major inroads were made into Chinese territory, even reaching the Chinese capital Chang'an (modern Xian) in late 763. However, Tibetan troops occupied Chang'an for only fifteen days.

Nanzhao (in Yunnan and neighbouring regions) remained under Tibetan control from 750 to 794, when they turned on their Tibetan overlords and helped the Chinese inflict a serious defeat on the Tibetans.

The Tibetans were allied with the Arabs and eastern Turks. In 747, the hold of Tibet was loosened by the campaign of general Gao Xianzhi, who tried to re-open the direct communications between Central Asia and Kashmir. By 750 the Tibetans had lost almost all of their central Asian possessions to the Chinese. However, after Gao Xianzhi's defeat by the Arabs and Qarluqs at the Battle of Talas river (751), Chinese influence decreased rapidly and Tibetan influence resumed. In 821/822 CE Tibet and China signed a remarkable peace treaty. A bilingual account of this treaty including details of the borders between the two countries are inscribed on a stone pillar which stands outside the Jokhang temple in Lhasa. Tibet continued as a Central Asian empire until the mid-9th century.

at the end of the day no body really knows what happened all them years ago,there is so much BS in the world,how does any one really know what happened back then,but i sure as hell know what's going on now.

and do you know who created all this divide and rule everywhere.

and just in case you did not get it,

In 821/822 CE Tibet and China signed a remarkable peace treaty. A bilingual account of this treaty including details of the borders between the two countries are inscribed on a stone pillar which stands outside the Jokhang temple in Lhasa.
It is said that Songtsän Gampo was born at Gyama, in Maldro (a region to the northeast of modern Lhasa), the son of the Yarlung king, Namri Löntsen. According to Tibetan tradition, Songstän Gampo was enthroned as the thirty-third king of the Yarlung Dynasty, after his father was poisoned circa 618,

By the 1850s Tibet had banned all foreigners from Tibet and shut its borders to all outsiders.

In 1865 Great Britain began secretly mapping Tibet. Trained Indian surveyor-spies disguised as pilgrims or traders counted their strides on their travels across Tibet and took readings at night.

a little before 1914.

20th century
Francis Younghusband

In 1904, a British expedition to Tibet under the command of Colonel Francis Younghusband, accompanied by a large military escort, invaded Tibet and reached Lhasa. The principal reason for the British invasion was a fear, which proved to be unfounded, that Russia was extending its power into Tibet and possibly even giving military aid to the local Tibetan government. But on his way to Lhasa, Younghusband slaughtered many Tibetan troops in Gyangzê who tried to stop the British advance.

It appears everyone wants a piece of Tibet,apart for the Tibetans getting a piece,a little like Palestine really don't you think.

chris
03-01-2009, 02:16 AM
Well, I'll only respond to your non-copy paste jobs...

why do people never give the bigger picture and only snippets of truth:D

Yes I'm aware of the tibetan empire...However, it's a ridiculous argument that they have claim over the Han and other groups in those areas now that they have moved in...They are now a Chinese nation, just like we can't just abolish Israel and say that the Palistinians should rule...It's not going to work.

It appears everyone wants a piece of Tibet,apart for the Tibetans getting a piece,a little like Palestine really don't you think.

Yes, it's the doorway into China. They can't get in through the north east as it's unhabitable and the coast is very well defended (only their supply line of oil is very weak). This is why they are using puppets like the Dalai Lama to try to get a foothold. Still it's not working, Tibet has really fuxed the NWO.

I don't get what we are talking about any more...

What do you think should happen to Tibet? If you were PM of England or President of America, what would you say about the situation?

lightgiver
03-01-2009, 02:32 AM
Well, I'll only respond to your non-copy paste jobs...



Yes I'm aware of the tibetan empire...However, it's a ridiculous argument that they have claim over the Han and other groups in those areas now that they have moved in...They are now a Chinese nation, just like we can't just abolish Israel and say that the Palistinians should rule...It's not going to work.



Yes, it's the doorway into China. They can't get in through the north east as it's unhabitable and the coast is very well defended (only their supply line of oil is very weak). This is why they are using puppets like the Dalai Lama to try to get a foothold. Still it's not working, Tibet has really fuxed the NWO.

I don't get what we are talking about any more...

What do you think should happen to Tibet? If you were PM of England or President of America, what would you say about the situation?

Chris i am letting this go now,you have my view and the view of others.

All i can say is that time will tell,

and i am sure we all wish for peace one day on our troubled planet;):)

and i will leave you with the 12 steps to liberation a copy and paste job,saves me writing it all out,

1. The truth of suffering. We experienced the truth of our addictions – our lives were unmanageable suffering.
2. The truth of the origin of suffering. We admit that we craved for and grasped onto addictions as our refuge.
3. The truth of the end of suffering. We came to see that complete cessation of craving and clinging at addictions is necessary.
4. The truth of the path. We made a decision to follow the path of liberation and to take refuge in our wisdom, our truth, and our fellowship.
5. Right view. We completely see our life as it is. Our goodness is indestructible. We are willing to acknowledge and proclaim our truth to ourselves, another human being and the community.
6. Right thought. We are mindful that we create the causes for suffering and liberation.
7. Right speech. We purify, confess and ask for forgiveness straightforwardly and without judgment. We are willing to forgive others.
8. Right action. We make a list of all persons we harm and are willing and able to actively make amends to them all, unless to do so would be harmful.
9. Right livelihood. We simplify our lives, realizing we are all interconnected. We engage in active compassion. We select a vocation that supports our recovery.
10. Right effort. We acknowledge mistakes and relapse as part of the path. We continue to practice these steps with joyful effort.
11. Right mindfulness. Through prayer, meditation and action we follow the path of truth, being mindful moment by moment.
12. Right concentration. Open to the spirit of awakening as a result of these steps, we will carry this message to all people suffering with addictions.

Buddha taught:

"My teaching is not a philosophy. It is the result of direct experience...
My teaching is a means of practice, not something to hold onto or worship.
My teaching is like a raft used to cross the river.
Only a fool would carry the raft around after he had already reached the other shore of liberation."

see you around my friend:)

amar7
03-01-2009, 05:46 PM
Because Penn and Teller would never direct people away from the truth, right?

....right?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

Good one, Dalai Lama is not an angel as he portrais himself, but that doesn't mean he is working for tptb. I am not sure of that, maybe even he is a good influence on some level.
I found that strange that he met with George Bush and called him a man of peace or some bullshit. But who knows whats behind that.. I don't claim to do so

octopusrex
03-01-2009, 05:58 PM
The truth of the Dalai Lama?

He meditates.

Do you?

chris
03-01-2009, 06:10 PM
The truth of the Dalai Lama?

He meditates.

Do you?

yes

theweetoon
10-02-2009, 06:37 PM
It just amazes me how musicians and other people who I've looked up too for many years (Patti Smith, Janes Addiction, etc..) have always looked up to him, and have participated in the FREE TIBET campaign, when Tibet under the Dalai Lama's ruling is even worse than modern day communism.

People think he's some peaceful man who meditate's all day and travels the world to do good work. He's just another controlled puppet in the scheme of things.

I concur dajlelion...just listened to him for 20mins "live" collecting The German Media Prize 2008. His speech skillyfully purposefully scripted.
Scaremonger - "one inclined to raise or excite alarms especially needlessly"

sukyspook
10-02-2009, 08:51 PM
FTR #547 Hell-o Dalai

Posted May 2, 2006 by FTR, in Category: For The Record

Recorded April 9, 2006

REALAUDIO
http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=18906&archive=27261

This program begins a lengthy examination of the Dalai Lama’s association with a covert-action milieu, much of it fascist and associated with the Underground Reich. This material is to be viewed in the context of author and political scientist Philip Bobbitt’s concept of “the virtual state”—a state without formal geographical borders. (For more about the concept of the virtual state, see—among other programs–FTR#’s 393, 395, 396, 397, 398.) In addition to the Dalai Lama’s collaboration with Islamist and secular Pan-Turkist separatist elements in Xinjiang province of China, the Nobel Peace Prize winner has maintained close connections over a period of decades with SS officers, some of them war criminals. Indeed, the Dalai Lama’s brand of Tantric Buddhism contains philosophical elements that can be readily adapted to a fascist and warlike ideological construction. It was this feature of the Tibetan religious philosophy that attracted the Nazi SS to Tibetan society, an attraction that resulted in SS expeditions to that country. Those expeditions led to the genesis of the Dalai Lama’s association with SS men over the years. A major element of this program and ones to follow centers on the Dalai Lama’s participation in the Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization, headed up by Karl von Habsburg, the heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. We are a long way from just “Buddhists” here, a fact that should be borne in mind when considering the Dalai Lama’s situation. Be sure to take note of the correction in paragraph number 8!

Program Highlights Include: The Tibetan Government in Exile’s selection of SS officers (including war criminals) to state their case to the world; the Dalai Lama’s close relationship with Shoko Asahara—the head of the Aum Shinrikyo cult (influenced by Hitler, the cult perpetrated a sarin gas attack in Tokyo); the Dalai Lama’s association with Jean Marques-Riviere (in his absence convicted and given the death sentence for turning Jews over to the Gestapo in France); the Dalai Lama’s association with Chilean occult fascist Miguel Serrano; the apocalyptic, warlike philosophy contained in the brand of Buddhism practiced by the Dalai Lama; the significance of the Kalachakra Sand Mandala and the creation and destruction of such a mandala at the World Trade Center in the 1990’s; the Dalai Lama’s close association with Erkin Alptekin, a former employee of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and an apparent asset of elements of U.S. intelligence; the Dalai Lama’s connections to the CIA; the Dalai Lama’s collaboration with Al Qaeda-related Islamist elements in Xinjiang province.

1. Addressing a cognitive consideration central to grasping the enormous gap between the public perception of the Dalai Lama and the unsavory reality of his political connections and religious practices, the broadcast opens with a telling, relevant quote from Christopher Hitchens. Indeed, the Dalai Lama has his words and actions judged by his reputation, not the other way around. This broadcast should afford the discriminating listener an opportunity to do otherwise. “ . . . The greatest triumph that modern PR can offer is the transcendent success of having your words and actions judged by your reputation, rather than the other way about. The ‘spiritual leader’ of Tibet has enjoyed this unassailable status for some time now, becoming a byword and synonym for saintly and ethereal values. Why this doesn’t put people on their guard I’ll never know. . . .”
(“His Material Highness” by Christopher Hitchens; Salon.com; 7/13/1998.)

Much more reading at:

http://spitfirelist.com/?p=175

Hope the mp3 audio link still works, it's well worth listening to.

lightgiver
10-02-2009, 09:08 PM
yes


Bodhisattva

The later Mahayana school holds that pursuing only the release from suffering and attainment of Nirvana (as held by Pre-sectarian Buddhism and the Early Buddhist Schools) is too narrow an aspiration, because it lacks the motivation of actively resolving to liberate all other beings from samsara, as well as oneself.:)

Bearing grudges will impede your progress :)


First I would like to lead meditation on bodhichitta. And this moment I would like to ask you to visualize white light, like a full moon. Beautiful white light like a full moon. You visualize that on your chest. And think, "This white light is my mind. This white light is loving-kindness. This white light is my mind of loving-kindness, my mind of love, my mind of compassion." So you visualize this beautiful white light, like a complete circle, like a moon. Then light shining, white light shining from here, radiating, shining, radiating. Light shining, radiating to ten directions: to the east, to the west. Light going to the south, to the north. And to the four cardinal directions, and to up, and to down. Light goes to all over, and goes first light goes to this earth, to everywhere on this earth. Then beyond the earth.

So this light reaches, it reach six realms. And this light reach all sentient beings, the light of love. I send my love and compassion, my pure thought, my pure wish, sincere thought. My wish: "May all beings have happiness. May all beings have cause of happiness. May all beings have no suffering. May all beings have no cause of suffering. May all beings have peace and bliss. Enlightened mind -- the mind of Buddha." So I send this light -- every, all sentient beings touched by this light. This light reach all beings, and all beings experience the mind of loving-kindness. [Meditate.] Try this one Chris.

The subject of the talk to night is meditation on, meditation on bodhichitta, precious bodichitta. So the subject of talk is meditation on bodhichitta, and this meditation is the essence of the path, and essence of the practice of the final scope, the final scope of Lam Rim, the Great Scope of the Lam Rim.

http://community.palouse.net/lotus/bp1.htm

kasalt
10-02-2009, 11:12 PM
Because Penn and Teller would never direct people away from the truth, right?

....right?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

I certainly don't think that Penn and Teller are being intentionally dishonest about their views on 9/11, do you? It is possible to be both wrong and honest. Penn and Teller may be wrong about 9/11, but the facts indicate that they are right about the Dalai Lama:

The 14th Dalai Lama
General

His material Highness - Christopher Hitchens
www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html (http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html)

The Political Culture of Compassion - How Western fantasy and Tibetan reality have created a spiritual strategy for the Dalai Lama by Donald S. Lopez Jr.
www.beliefnet.com/story/31/story_3167_1.html (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/31/story_3167_1.html)

Reflections on the Dalai Lama’s September 2003 Visit to America - An Interview with Victor and Victoria Trimondi - James C. Stephens
www.trimondi.de/EN/interv03.html (http://www.trimondi.de/EN/interv03.html)

Tactics, Strategies, Forgeries, Illusions by V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm)

Dharma in the park - Christopher Farah
www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2003/09/22/lama/index_np.html (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2003/09/22/lama/index_np.html)

Dalai Lama Lite - Patrick French
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C06E5D8123AF93AA2575AC0A9659C8B 63

A clear-eyed look at Tibet - Linda Jaivin www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/12/1057783280730.html (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/12/1057783280730.html)

The Dalai Lama: Ultimate Religious Fundamentalist?
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/12330/9985/1018/485118

Why I hate the Dalai Lama - Naomi Rousseau
www.physicsroom.org.nz/log/archive/10/lama/ (http://www.physicsroom.org.nz/log/archive/10/lama/)

Violence and War

What Would Buddha Do? Why Won't the Dalai Lama Pick a Fight? by Adrian Zupp www.counterpunch.org/zupp10112003.html (http://www.counterpunch.org/zupp10112003.html)
www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1374/1_64/111979617/p1/article.jhtml (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1374/1_64/111979617/p1/article.jhtml)

Dalai Lama praises US approach to bombing Afghanistan
www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2001/10/24_3.html (http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2001/10/24_3.html)

Dalai Lama Assesses Afghan, Iraq Wars
www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/6738361.htm (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/6738361.htm)

With Dalai Lama's Blessings - Besieged Tibetan Buddhists Waging War to Re-Partition Kashmir by Yoichi Clark Shimatsu and Leeroy Betti
www.pacificnews.org/content/pns/2001/jul/0731withdalai.html (http://www.pacificnews.org/content/pns/2001/jul/0731withdalai.html)

The phantoms of Chittagong
www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2003/1/8_2.html (http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2003/1/8_2.html)

Kalachakra Initiation for the Tibetan Underground Army
www.chushigangdruk.org/history/history02.html (http://www.chushigangdruk.org/history/history02.html)

Dalai Lama reserves judgment on whether Iraq war was justified by Scott Lindlaw
www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/994716p-6985161c.html (http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/994716p-6985161c.html)

Buddha's earthly man of peace now talks of violence by Laurie Goodstein
www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/18/1063625157317.html (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/18/1063625157317.html)

Buddhism and War
www.notfrisco2.com/webzine/Joel/archives/003302.html (http://www.notfrisco2.com/webzine/Joel/archives/003302.html)

The Dalai Lamas as the supreme war lords by V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#warlorddl (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#warlorddl)

Is the XIV Dalai Lama the "greatest living prince of peace"? by V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#DL14 (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#DL14)

Marching music and terror by V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#marchingmusic (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#marchingmusic)

Political calculation and the Buddhist message of peace by V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#politicalcalcul (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#politicalcalcul)

Elton has no Use for the Dalai Lama
www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2001/10/18_6.html (http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/2001/10/18_6.html)

Dalai Lama misses sex shoots guns (Cool!) (http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/954353/posts) by Ruth Gledhill
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/954353/posts

The Hindutva-Connection

Dalai Lama Condemns Islamic and Christian Practice of Conversions by Muqtedar Khan
www.beliefnet.com/story/64/story_6448_1.html (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/64/story_6448_1.html)

Dalai Lama condemns Christians, Muslims
www.milligazette.com/Archives/15022001/Art28.htm (http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15022001/Art28.htm)

Open letter to HH Dalai Lama by Shamsul Islam
www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Feb04-Print-Edition/011502200478.htm (http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Feb04-Print-Edition/011502200478.htm)

Reportage: Le Dalai Lama se raprocherait- il de Hindouism? - François Gautier
www.francoisgautier.com/Written%20Material/DL-REPORTAGE.rtf (http://www.francoisgautier.com/Written%20Material/DL-REPORTAGE.rtf)

The phantoms of Chittagong
http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=2003&m=1&p=8_2

Did Hurriyat drag the Dalai Lama into controversy? – by Gautam Kaul
www.kashmirsentinel.com/sept2001/8.html (http://www.kashmirsentinel.com/sept2001/8.html)

Dalai Lama condemns Christian, Muslim practice of seeking converts
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/25/india.lama/

Dalai Lama and Pandit Rajmani Tigunait on World Peace by Sandra Anderson
www.kumbhamelatimes.org/leadarchive.asp?dt=1/27/2001 (http://www.kumbhamelatimes.org/leadarchive.asp?dt=1/27/2001)

Atomic Bomb

India sheltered Dalai Lama for nuclear technology – US aide
www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/19990811/ige01020.html (http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/19990811/ige01020.html)

Nehru's 'deal' with Washington
http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=1999&m=8&p=11_8

The phantoms of Chittagong
The Phantoms of Chittagong
http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=2003&m=1&p=8_2

Smiling Buddha: 1974 - India's Nuclear Weapons Program
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/IndiaSmiling.html

“Buddha has smiled”: The Dalai Lama and the Indian atomic tests of 1998
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#atomicbomb (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-09.htm#atomicbomb)

Sexuality

Dalai Lama Speaks on Gay Sex - He says it's wrong for Buddhists but not for society
www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/1997/6/12_2.html (http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/1997/6/12_2.html)

Neuroscience

Petition against Dalai Lama’s lecture at Society for Neuroscience 2005 (SfN)
www.petitiononline.com/sfn2005/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/sfn2005/petition.html)

Dissing the Dalai Lama
www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/07/28/dalai (http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/07/28/dalai)

Neuroscientists see red over Dalai Lama
www.nature.com/news/2005/050725/full/436452b.html (http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050725/full/436452b.html)

Plan for Dalai Lama lecture angers neuroscientists
www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1536642,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1536642,00.html)

www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1536642,00.html?gusrc=rss (http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1536642,00.html?gusrc=rss)

The Yogi and the Computer
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm#Yogicomputer (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm#Yogicomputer)


The Dalai Lama and Modern Science
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm#modernscience (http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-16.htm#modernscience)

Vegetarian?

An Open Letter to the Dalai Lama by Norm Phelps
http://www.badkarmalama.com/open-letter-to-the-dalai-lama.html

Killing them softly – the Buddhist rationale for eating animals by Tom McGuire
www.montelis.com/satya/backissues/apr98/rationale.html (http://www.montelis.com/satya/backissues/apr98/rationale.html)

West Meets East - Vegetarians and the Dalai Lama
www.satyamag.com/july99/sat.60.edit.html (http://www.satyamag.com/july99/sat.60.edit.html)

Dalai Lama a Vegetarian?
www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=301&discussionID=205685 (http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=301&discussionID=205685)

lightgiver
11-02-2009, 12:22 AM
THE MIND AS OUR SOFTWARE

To illustrate the Buddhist approach to the mind, let us compare our body and mind to a computer. In this simile, the body is the hardware and the mind is the software.
As mentioned above, the mind is defined as a non-physical phenomena which perceives, thinks, recognises, experiences and reacts to the environment, not unlike computer software.
Although software needs to be imprinted or registered in something like the hard-drive before it can do anything, in itself, a program represents a lot of thinking by the software manufacturer. Without software (mind), the hardware (body) is just a 'dead thing'. The hardware (body) is of course important in what the computer can do; how fast it is, which programs can be run, and how the computer can interact with the world. However good the hardware is, it can ultimately only perform what the program 'knows'. The hardware can get damaged, or even 'die', and the software can be moved onto another set of hardware; not unlike rebirth!
The software needs to use the 'senses' of the hardware, like the keyboard, the mousea, a video camera, a modem etc. to receive 'input'; just like the mind needs the senses the receive the 'input' of the outside world.

This leads to an important observation: it is easy to recognise that a computer is not 'objective' about the world; depending on what kind of video camera, microphone or modem we connect it to, the input will be different. Similarly, our bodily senses cannot really be objective: people's ears are different, the eyes are different etc., so how can someone ever claim to be an 'objective observer'? Above and beyond that lies the software; the more advanced this is, the more 'intelligent' it will be able to read the world and determine what is the best thing to do. Similarly, the more advanced our mind is, the more intelligent and wise we will be, providing we are not hampered by serious physical problems. As the software actually determines what the hardware does, so is the mind the master of the body - within the physical limitations of the body. But the Buddha made it clear that a human body is the best type of available hardware!

There are limits to the development of the hardware; for example, the amount of electrical circuits on chips is getting larger and larger, but there are physical limits which the developers encounter. With the software, the limit appears to be much less clear; the first types of computers behaved with the intelligence of an on/off switch, but already they can beat a grandmaster at chess and nobody can say where it will end. Similarly, Buddhism teaches that there is no real limit to the development of our mind, and in fact omniscience is possible. At that stage, all our normal values and concepts dissolve as limited and non-objective. Buddhism encourages us to develop the software of our mind to enter into a different state which is beyond limitations, suffering and problems.

The method to develop our mind is summarised as study and meditation. Initially, we need to understand how the programs of our mind work and how they can be improved, and then do the reprogramming in meditation. This is why psychology and meditation are so important.

Below listing of aspects of the mind may appear very dry and boring, but remember, so are computer manuals.

We should listen to our selves more.:)

lightgiver
11-02-2009, 12:25 AM
Derived from anger:
32. Wrath / hatred - by increased anger, malicious state wishing to cause immediate harm to others
33. Vengeance / malice / resentment - not forgetting harm done by a person, and seeking to return harm done to oneself
34. Rage / spite / outrage - intention to utter harsh speech in reply to unpleasant words, when wrath and malice become unbearable
35. Cruelty / vindictiveness / mercilessness - being devoid of compassion or kindness, seeking harm to others.

Derived from anger and attachment:
36. Envy / jealousy - internal anger caused by attachment; unbearable to bear good things others have

Derived from attachment:
37. Greed / avarice / miserliness - intense clinging to possessions and their increase
38. Vanity / self-satisfaction - seeing one's good fortune giving one a false sense of confidence; being intoxicated with oneself
39. Excitement / wildness / mental agitation - distraction towards desire objects, not allowing the mind to rest on something wholesome; obstructs single pointed concentration.

Derived from ignorance:
40. Concealment - hiding one's negative qualities when others with good intention refer to them this causes regret
41. Dullness / muddle-headedness - caused by fogginess which makes mind dark/heavy - like when going to sleep, coarse dullness is when the object is unclear, subtle dullness is when the object has no intense clarity
42. Faithlessness - no belief of that which is worthy of respect; it can be the idea that virtue is unnecessary, or a mistaken view of virtue; it forms the basis for laziness (43)
43. Laziness - being attached to temporary pleasure, not wanting to do virtue or only little; opposite to diligence [25])
44. Forgetfulness - causes to not clearly remember virtuous acts, inducing distraction to disturbing objects - not "just forgetting", but negative tendency
45. Inattentiveness / lack of conscience - "distracted wisdom" after rough or no analysis, not fully aware of one's conduct, careless indifference and moral failings; intentional seeking mental distraction like daydreaming

Derived from attachment and ignorance:
46. Hypocrisy / pretension - pretend non-existent qualities of oneself
47. Dishonesty / smugness - hiding one's faults, giving no clear answers, no regret, snobbery & conceit, self-importance and finding faults with others

Derived from attachment, anger and ignorance
48. Shamelessness - consciously not avoiding evil, it supports all root and secondary delusions
49. Inconsiderateness - not avoiding evil, being inconsiderate of other's practice, ingratitude
50. Unconscientiousness / carelessness- 3 delusions plus laziness; wanting to act unrestrained
51. Distraction / mental wandering - inability to focus on any virtuous object