Scientology

[adamadam]

Hopefully most people here recognise the good work David Icke is doing to get people to look at what is going on.
Before I started understanding Scientology much of David's work had the ring of truth for me. It still does. David & Scientology agree on so much which is indicative of the truth of both.

What is Scientology? Well there is a lot of ignorance about Scientology out there, just as there is about the things David talks about.
Scientology is an applied religious philosophy, which contains solutions to everyday problems, and enables you to become spiritually free. It DOES NOT RELY ON BELIEF, only on trying things out and seeing the results.
There is a way out now of the matrix - this is too hard for most to believe.
Please don't post in this thread if you want to post anything negative, or you already know what Scientology is.
But if you use the idea that Scientology works and agrees with much of what David talks about as a working hypothesis I'll be very happy to answer your questions.

[amadeus]

Please don't post in this thread if you want to post anything negative, or you already know what Scientology is.

Why are you saying this? I don't think this is the right way to start a conversation. Please explain.

[adamadam]

For a person A to be able to communicate a specific subject to another person B, then B must be willing to go into communication with A, and also must be interested in learning about the subject. Otherwise B won't duplicate A.

There's of course no point in trying to talk to people who don't want to duplicate what you're saying.

[tinmenace]

The thing I don't understand about Scientology (and Mormonism) is the extra terrestrial information. How do they know about these characters and their planets and so on?

When David talks about the reptiles, I can relate because I see the evidence in our DNA, and so on, so it makes it feasible. If David asked us to consider something with nothing to back it up, then it becomes a leap of faith which is indoctrination (religion)... which I suppose Scientology is. So, I don't really see the similarity between what David says and Scientology.

How is it similar?

[adamadam]

Please when I write something don't just ignore it. I wrote in caps "IT DOES NOT RELY ON BELIEF."

There are some levels in Scientology that are confidential until you get there. The reason they are confidential are for similar reasons to saying to someone who's been raped "Remember that time you've been raped?" and walking off.
So it's necessary that some levels are confidential, but it makes it an easy target for idiots who want to attack Scientology as we can't confirm or deny anything confidential.

In Scientology past lives and other spiritual phenonema are not there to be believed. Scientology processes get you to a point where you can view the truth of it yourself, as clearly as black and white.

A major similarity between Scientology and David's stuff is an investigation into the elite who rule the world. LRH was the person to expose government mind control experiments using drugs back in the 50s. In the 60s he wrote about a handful of people controlling the banking system, media etc. David's concept of "repeaters" is similar to that of a suppressive person. The matrix concept of David's touches on the extensive work LRH did on how universes are created and what they are. Also David's exposure of how religion has been used to trap people - LRH discovered the exact nature of that. Those are just some of the similarities.

[tinmenace]

Please when I write something don't just ignore it. I wrote in caps "IT DOES NOT RELY ON BELIEF."

First of all, I never said anything about belief. I said "faith". Second of all you described "Scientology is an applied religious philosophy" which implies that it's faith based, because ANYTHING religious is faith based. All I wanted to know is how you reconcile your belief that faith-based religious philosophies are similar to David's message - which is to be free of anything faith based?

Two sentences down you talk about belief yourself, you said "There is a way out now of the matrix - this is too hard for most to believe."

In essence contradicting yourself

There are some levels in Scientology that are confidential until you get there. The reason they are confidential are for similar reasons to saying to someone who's been raped "Remember that time you've been raped?" and walking off.

I don't understand that analogy. Could you be more specific please?

So it's necessary that some levels are confidential...

Why?

but it makes it an easy target for idiots who want to attack Scientology as we can't confirm or deny anything confidential.

Often this is out of pure ignorance, which I suppose I am when it comes to Scientology, so I'm not attacking it, I just need all my questions answered before I can decide if it's something important and worth considering or if it's utter crap.

In Scientology past lives and other spiritual phenonema are not there to be believed. Scientology processes get you to a point where you can view the truth of it yourself, as clearly as black and white.

A major similarity between Scientology and David's stuff is an investigation into the elite who rule the world.

Ok, so that's the similarity? Is that all, or are there other similarities? I don't believe that Scientology is just about exposing cover ups. That might be a lure to attract truth seekers to your church, but that's not all you do right? I mean you don't all sit around and discuss government and global conspiracies, right?

LRH was the person to expose government mind control experiments using drugs back in the 50s. In the 60s he wrote about a handful of people controlling the banking system, media etc. David's concept of "repeaters" is similar to that of a suppressive person. The matrix concept of David's touches on the extensive work LRH did on how universes are created and what they are.

Also David's exposure of how religion has been used to trap people - LRH discovered the exact nature of that. Those are just some of the similarities.

But Scientology is a RELIGIOUS philosophy, right? Is this not a contradiction in terms?

Please don't post in this thread if you want to post anything negative, or you already know what Scientology is.

What is that supposed to mean? You only want docile, obedient candidates that don't ask questions, and accept whatever you say without questioning it? Allow me to say at this time that all that goes against EVERYTHING David has ever said. I can't believe that you are trying to piggyback on David Icke in order to recruit people to your church. That's pretty lame.

One more thing, you never answered my question about the ET beginnings of Scientology.



.

[amadeus]

For a person A to be able to communicate a specific subject to another person B, then B must be willing to go into communication with A, and also must be interested in learning about the subject. Otherwise B won't duplicate A.

There's of course no point in trying to talk to people who don't want to duplicate what you're saying.

I hope that you some day read the quote above and have good laugh at what you once wrote. I wish you all the best on the path you've chosen. We'll meet at the next intersection... ;)

[adamadam]

What is that supposed to mean? You only want docile, obedient candidates that don't ask questions, and accept whatever you say without questioning it?

Of course not. I wish to talk to people who want to understand what I'm saying. After they've understood they can then decide whether it is true for them.

The alternative is talking to people who don't wish to understand and just wish to have a slanging match.

[tinmenace]

How am I to understand if you won't answer my questions?

Never mind......

I've learned enough from your lack of response to know this is not for me.

[i am all i am]

For a person A to be able to communicate a specific subject to another person B, then B must be willing to go into communication with A, and also must be interested in learning about the subject. Otherwise B won't duplicate A.

There's of course no point in trying to talk to people who don't want to duplicate what you're saying.

G'day Adamadam.

If you are looking for people to duplicate what you are saying, you are looking for followers.

Duplication is a lack of individuality.

Is this why you have duplicated the name Adam, Adamadam ???

If Scientology "DOES NOT RELY ON BELIEF", why would you expect someone to do something that they do not believe ???

Please don't post in this thread if you want to post anything negative, or you already know what Scientology is.

This quote from what you originally posted contradicts the above highlighted comment. You are not looking to communicate, you are looking to preach to a following. This is the difference between talking "to" someone and talking "with" someone.



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[adamadam]

i_am_all_i_am,

Let me make this easier to understand.

Person A has an idea about the best way to throw a ball far. Person B has their own idea about how to throw a ball far.

Now compare these three scenarios.
1) Person B decides he doesn't want to understand how Person A throws the ball. He thinks Person A is wrong sticks to his own method.

2) Person B decides he might be able to learn something from Person A. He wants to understand how A throws the ball and communicates with him with the idea that it might be better than his method. A explains his method to B, and B duplicates it and tries it out. B then compares how far he can throw the ball using A's method and to how far he can throw using his own method, observing the results for himself.

3) Person B mindlessly does everything person A suggests without thinking for himself. He has a method of throwing the ball but rejects it favour of person A's method without observing which method is better.
___

You and me are in situation 1. You are telling me I am trying to get situation 3 to occur. I am looking for situation 2 to occur.

[eternal_spirit]

You've not convinced me how Icke has similarities with Scientology adam. maybe you haven't read many of his books he hasn't got anything good to say about Hubbard.

If you'e pushing the idea that Scientology has anything positive. I can't be the only one wondering are you one of them?

[i am all i am]

i_am_all_i_am,

Let me make this easier to understand.

Person A has an idea about the best way to throw a ball far. Person B has their own idea about how to throw a ball far.

Now compare these three scenarios.
1) Person B decides he doesn't want to understand how Person A throws the ball. He thinks Person A is wrong sticks to his own method.

2) Person B decides he might be able to learn something from Person A. He wants to understand how A throws the ball and communicates with him with the idea that it might be better than his method. A explains his method to B, and B duplicates it and tries it out. B then compares how far he can throw the ball using A's method and to how far he can throw using his own method, observing the results for himself.

3) Person B mindlessly does everything person A suggests without thinking for himself. He has a method of throwing the ball but rejects it favour of person A's method without observing which method is better.
___

You and me are in situation 1. You are telling me I am trying to get situation 3 to occur. I am looking for situation 2 to occur.

G'day Adamadam.

4) Person B understands how person A throws the ball and decides that neither method is better nor worse than the other, they are merely individual choices on the way that they both choose to throw the ball.

5) Person B understands that person A is attempting to act superior by believing that their way of throwing the ball is "better" than person B's way without understanding the way that person B throws the ball.

6) Person A has failed to understand that without knowing how person B throws the ball, then person A can not form any judgement about the way that person B throws the ball that is not biased from person A's belief in being "better", or superioir, at throwing the ball.

7) Person B understands that 4), 5) & 6) are more probable than 1), 2) & 3) suggested by person A.



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[eternal_spirit]

It's on par with classic cult indoctrination and reprogramming the mind's belief systems.

Scientology tells us and the ones they recruit everything you believe is wrong, that their ideas are better and that you should replace you're old beliefs with their beliefs.

[adamadam]

4 is definitely not the case.
5 might be the case, but it's really a subset of 1.
6 is similar to 5, it's either irrelevant to B potentially learning something, or it is really a subset of 1.

[i am all i am]

4 is definitely not the case.
5 might be the case, but it's really a subset of 1.
6 is similar to 5, it's either irrelevant to B potentially learning something, or it is really a subset of 1.

You missed 7)...

7) Person B understands that 4), 5) & 6) are more probable than 1), 2) & 3) suggested by person A.



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[adamadam]

That's just a subset of 1.

[ashyr]

i deeply think that scientology is the new agenda where they give people a bit more information to SNAG all the Xtians and fleeing people who break free from religions. (restrictive belief) and offer them the next thing in line.

what i would be interested in.
is how 2 deprogram a scientologist
and also how to dismatle there ideas by reverse engineering or prove to the follower that it is just another form of control.

i like davids way of explaining it

RELIGION vs SCIENCE yet they are the same thing. (not in control of there own lives)

[bigus_dickus]

Scientology is an applied religious philosophy, which contains solutions to everyday problems, and enables you to become spiritually free. It DOES NOT RELY ON BELIEF, only on trying things out and seeing the results.

what does "spiritually free" mean?

There is a way out now of the matrix - this is too hard for most to believe.

what happened to the other "ways out" of the matrix and why is there only now a way, that is too hard for most to believe?

[hagbard_celine]

Vintage Scientology doc, including a rare interview with L Ron Hubbard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

[chicken_little]

When you said that Scientology requires levels of secrecy, that threw up a red flag in my mind. What do they have to hide? How does one get to the point where those secrets are revealed?

I think that if a person wishes to become involved in a religious organization, he or she should be able to educate themselves FULLY in the beliefs, facts, history, etc., of that organization without even having to become involved. I personally would never become involved in Scientology because of the secretive nature that they display. However I don't have any disrespect for those people who are or will become members. And I am always looking to learn more about religious groups that I'm not very informed of, if only to be aware of how their beliefs could affect me and vice versa.

Please answer the questions that the other folks have posted. I'm very interested in reading your responses.

[hagbard_celine]

Vintage Scientology doc, including a rare interview with L Ron Hubbard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

Hubbard is an odd-looking character. There's something about his manner in this interview that arouses my suspicions, especially his Manchurian Candidate smile. He was very involved with the occult and was part of the Crowley network in the US. According the "Illuminati II" movie. he was present when Jack Pasons carried out the highly dangerous "Babalon Working".

On the other hand, the comment he makes at the end of the programme, about madmen, I couldn't agree more with!

[eternal_spirit]

When you said that Scientology requires levels of secrecy, that threw up a red flag in my mind. What do they have to hide? How does one get to the point where those secrets are revealed?

I think that if a person wishes to become involved in a religious organization, he or she should be able to educate themselves FULLY in the beliefs, facts, history, etc., of that organization without even having to become involved. I personally would never become involved in Scientology because of the secretive nature that they display. However I don't have any disrespect for those people who are or will become members. And I am always looking to learn more about religious groups that I'm not very informed of, if only to be aware of how their beliefs could affect me and vice versa.

Please answer the questions that the other folks have posted. I'm very interested in reading your responses.


here I'll repeat it again for adamadam's sake
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3777

[adamadam]

i deeply think that scientology is the new agenda where they give people a bit more information to SNAG all the Xtians and fleeing people who break free from religions. (restrictive belief) and offer them the next thing in line.

what i would be interested in.
is how 2 deprogram a scientologist
Not possible. :)

and also how to dismatle there ideas by reverse engineering or prove to the follower that it is just another form of control.
It isn't.

i like davids way of explaining it

RELIGION vs SCIENCE yet they are the same thing. (not in control of there own lives)
Religion that is based on faith, or believing what you're told can obviously be used for control.
A religion (Scientology in this case) that has as one of it's most important tenets that you should observe for yourself and not believe anything anyone tells you does not fall into that category.

[adamadam]

what does "spiritually free" mean?

Being free of the constraints of this universe, being able to go to other universes, or create your own.

what happened to the other "ways out" of the matrix and why is there only now a way, that is too hard for most to believe?

Which other ways out were there? Buddha seemed to have gotten out of the matrix. What he wasn't able to do was to describe exactly how everyone could get out. Now Buddhism has been too badly confused and changed from what Buddha taught so that it's not much use. Maybe there are some Tibetan Monks who have retained some of the use of what Buddha actually taught.

But as for it being hard to believe that there is a way out - yes it is hard to believe. But you don't have to believe it. If you want you can check it out for yourself.

[adamadam]

When you said that Scientology requires levels of secrecy, that threw up a red flag in my mind. What do they have to hide? How does one get to the point where those secrets are revealed?

There are thousands of processes and workable techniques in Scientology. There are techniques that can make anyone into a fast student or get them off drugs. Most important are the techniques that help you get over the bad stuff stored in your mind and lead you to spiritual freedom by your own cognitions and remembering of what has happened to you in the past.

There are some processes that are secret because knowing a bit about them before you properly deal with them can be very discomfortable and even hazardous. (Though it's actually more hazardous for people approaching these levels). The way out of the matrix is booby-trapped and finding out partial data in this area can lead you into the trap.

To give a simple example you wouldn't say to someone who had been beaten and raped "Oh remember that time you were raped." and then walk off, leaving them in that state.

I'm not far off the OT levels myself and will do them soon when I get the time.

I think that if a person wishes to become involved in a religious organization, he or she should be able to educate themselves FULLY in the beliefs, facts, history, etc., of that organization without even having to become involved. I personally would never become involved in Scientology because of the secretive nature that they display.
Hopefully I've explained the reason for the confidentiality. Apart from that Scientology is exceptionally open and you can find out about it for yourself without becoming involved by reading the books of LRH.

Please answer the questions that the other folks have posted. I'm very interested in reading your responses.
I'll answer all questions that come from someone who shows me a modest amount of respect and who can evaluate what I say on it's own merits and not with any pre-conceived assumptions. You seem able to do that, so I'm happy to answer your questions. :)

[barbitone]

There does exist a teacher that is flawless. :D

DMT

[adamadam]

Hubbard is an odd-looking character. There's something about his manner in this interview that arouses my suspicions, especially his Manchurian Candidate smile. He was very involved with the occult and was part of the Crowley network in the US. According the "Illuminati II" movie. he was present when Jack Pasons carried out the highly dangerous "Babalon Working".
Hubbard researched everything that had anything to do with anything spiritual or to do with the reality behind the matrix. He was not "part of the Crowley network". He did meet Crowley I believe though. In one place he refers to Crowley in a lecture. I think he calls him "a mad old boy", though he doesn't say this disrepectfully. My impression is that he knew Crowley could do some tricks most people can't but that there wasn't that much useful that Crowley had learned as regards getting out of the matrix.

Oh and LRH was the person who first blew the whistle on the CIA's Manchurian Candidate mind-control programs using pain, drugs and hypnosis. The fact that he managed to stay alive is impressive in itself.

On the other hand, the comment he makes at the end of the programme, about madmen, I couldn't agree more with!

Cool. :)

[i am all i am]

HUBBARD IN HIS OWN WORDS


"Scientology is used to increase spiritual freedom, intelligence, ability and to produce immortality."
- L. Ron Hubbard, DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY TECHNICAL DICTIONARY, copyright 1975, reprinted 1987, p. 370


"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384


"Show me any person who is critical of us and I?ll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate?s hair on end."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965


"Somebody some day will say ?this is illegal.? By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, "LRH Relationship to Orgs"


"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 15 August 1960, Dept. of Govt. Affairs


"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."
- L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955


"When we need somebody haunted we investigate?When we investigate we do so noisily always."
- L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959


"People attack Scientology, I never forget it, always even the score. People attack auditors, or staff, or organisations, or me. I never forget until the slate is clear."
- L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959


"So we listen. We add up associations of people with people. When a push against Scientology starts somewhere, we go over the people involved and weed them out. Push vanishes."
- L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959


"Our organizations are friendly. They are only here to help you."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Dianetic Contract" 23 May 1969


"ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967

[SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]


"The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.

This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 21 October 1968, "Cancellation of Fair Game"


"A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"


"The names and connections, at this time, of the bitterly opposing enemy are: 1. Psychiatry and psychology (not medicine). 2. The heads of news media who are also directors of psychiatric front groups. 3. A few key political figures in the fields of "mental health" and education. 4. A decline of monetary stability caused by the current planning of bankers who are also directors of psychiatric front organizations [that] would make us unable to function."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 16 February 1969, "TARGETS, DEFENSE"


"When you move off a point of power, pay all your obligations on the nail, empower all your friends completely and move off with your pockets full of artillery, potential blackmail on every erstwhile rival, unlimited funds in your private account and the addresses of experienced assassins and go live in Bulgravia [sic] and bribe the police."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 12 February 1967, "The Responsibilities of Leaders"


"There is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves."
- L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING. 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980


"They smell of all the baths they didn?t take. The trouble with China is, there are too many chinks here."
- L. Ron Hubbard?s diary, 1928. (Jon Atack, A PIECE OF BLUE SKY: SCIENTOLOGY, DIANETICS AND L. RON HUBBARD EXPOSED. Lyle Stuart/Carol Publishing Group 1990)


"Having viewed slum clearance projects in most major cities of the world may I state that you have conceived and created in the Johannesburg townships what is probably the most impressive and adequate resettlement activity in existence."
- L. Ron Hubbard in a letter to H.F. Verwoerd (widely considered to be the architect of South Africa?s apartheid system) dated November 7, 1960, reprinted in K.T.C. Kotz鬍 INQUIRY INTO THE EFFECTS AND PRACTICES OF SCIENTOLOGY, p. 59, Pretoria 1973


"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 145 [The "Tone Scale" is Scientology?s measure of mental and spiritual health.]


"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170


"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170


"A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 171


"Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 159


"In all the broad Universe there is no other hope for Man than ourselves."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Ron's Journal" 1967


"A psychiatrist today has the power to (1) take a fancy to a woman (2) lead her to take wild treatment as a joke (3) drug and shock her to temporary insanity (4) incarnate [sic] her (5) use her sexually (6) sterilise her to prevent conception (7) kill her by a brain operation to prevent disclosure. And all with no fear of reprisal. Yet it is rape and murder? We want at least one bad mark on every psychiatrist in England, a murder, an assault, or a rape or more than one? This is Project Psychiatry. We will remove them."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Sec ED, Office of LRH, Confidential, 22 February 1966, "Project Psychiatry"


"I?m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys."
- L. Ron Hubbard in a 1967 letter to his wife, written during the period when he was creating Scientology?s secret "upper levels." (Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. a.k.a. Ronald DeWolf, L. RON HUBBARD: MESSIAH OR MADMAN? Random House 1989)


"Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 5 November 1967, "Critics of Scientology"


"This is the correct procedure: Spot who is attacking us. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don?t ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 25 February 1966


"We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 7 November 1962


"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418


"Scientology...is not a religion."
- L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251


"This [Scientology] is useful knowledge. With it the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its use the thousand abilities Man has sought to recover become his once more."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENTOLOGY: A HISTORY OF MAN, 1952


"Benzedrine often helps a case run."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "The Intensive Processing Procedure," 1950

["Run a case" = administer Dianetics or Scientology procedures to someone]


"Of all the ills of man which can be successfully processed by Scientology, arthritis ranks near the top. In skilled hands, this ailment, though misunderstood and dreaded in the past, already has begun to become history. Twenty-five hours of Scientology by an auditor who fairly understands how to process arthritis can be said to produce an invariable alleviation of the condition. Some cases, even severe ones, have responded in as little as two hours of processing, according to reports from auditors in the field."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Journal of Scientology," Issue 1-G, 1952


"Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase ?It turns my blood to water.?"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Journal of Scientology," Issue 15-G, 1953


"When somebody enrols, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe - never permit an ?open-minded? approach... If they enrolled, they?re aboard, and if they?re aboard they?re here on the same terms as the rest of us - win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half minded about being Scientologists... When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare? The proper instruction attitude is, ?We'd rather have you dead than incapable.?"
- L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING, 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980


"Advanced Courses [in Scientology] are the most valuable service on the planet. Life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, all are transitory and impermanent... There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself."
- L. Ron Hubbard speaking of his Operating Thetan Courses, Flag Mission Order 375


"?Psychiatry? and ?psychiatrist? are easily redefined to mean ?an anti-social enemy of the people?. This takes the kill crazy psychiatrist off the preferred list of professions...The redefinition of words is done by associating different emotions and symbols with the word than were intended...Scientologists are redefining ?doctor?, ?Psychiatry? and ?psychology? to mean ?undesirable antisocial elements?...The way to redefine a word is to get the new definition repeated as often as possible. Thus it is necessary to redefine medicine, psychiatry and psychology downward and define Dianetics and Scientology upwards. This, so far as words are concerned, is the public opinion battle for belief in your definitions, and not those of the opposition. A consistent, repeated effort is the key to any success with this technique of propaganda."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 5 October 1971, PR Series 12, "Propaganda by Redefinition of Words"


"Arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away."
L. Ron Hubbard, DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH, 1987 Ed., p. 72


"Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns."
- L. Ron Hubbard, ALL ABOUT RADIATION, p. 109


"You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Eyesight and glasses," "Dianetic Auditor?s Bulletin," Vol. 2, No. 7, January 1952


"The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now?"
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, November 1970, "Psychosis"


"Let?s sell these people a piece of blue sky."
- L. Ron Hubbard to an associate in 1950, soon after the opening of the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation. (Jon Atack, A PIECE OF BLUE SKY: SCIENTOLOGY, DIANETICS AND L. RON HUBBARD EXPOSED, Lyle Stuart/Carol Publishing Group. 1990)


"I?d like to start a religion. That?s where the money is."
- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant Publisher. 1983

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/5.htm

[bigus_dickus]

Being free of the constraints of this universe, being able to go to other universes, or create your own.

so, scientology assumes that i am not free right now? and it takes for granted that this one universe is a universe that is limiting for me? and that i don't create my own each moment as well? why?

Which other ways out were there? Buddha seemed to have gotten out of the matrix. What he wasn't able to do was to describe exactly how everyone could get out. Now Buddhism has been too badly confused and changed from what Buddha taught so that it's not much use. Maybe there are some Tibetan Monks who have retained some of the use of what Buddha actually taught.

But as for it being hard to believe that there is a way out - yes it is hard to believe. But you don't have to believe it. If you want you can check it out for yourself.

there are many who promise to take you out of your "prison", if you pay them first that is. but whatever the case, scientology can't prove that it is successful with it.

buddha seemed to have gotten "out" because buddha realized that there is no "out". how do you explain that to everyone?

[i am all i am]

Exactly Bigus Dickus.

Who said that I am in a prison ???

Why would they think that this experience of life 'needs' to be 'gotten out' of ???

Or are they merely saving people from having too much money ???



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[adamadam]

so, scientology assumes that i am not free right now?
Scientology doesn't assume anything. I'd assume you're not free at least in the sense I mean.
and it takes for granted that this one universe is a universe that is limiting for me?
What do you make of the matrix in Icke's work. We're talking about essentially the same thing here.
and that i don't create my own each moment as well? why?
You do. Becoming freer spiritually gives you more choice of exactly how you create your own each moment.



there are many who promise to take you out of your "prison", if you pay them first that is. but whatever the case, scientology can't prove that it is successful with it.

The only proof worth anything is the knowledge you have gained from observing things from yourself. I've done that with Scientology and know that it works.

buddha seemed to have gotten "out" because buddha realized that there is no "out". how do you explain that to everyone?
To explain that to you I'd need to understand more about what you mean by "out" as it refers to David's matrix.

[eternal_spirit]

Tell us about how 75 million years ago the earth people where flown to safety in aeroplanes that where only invented around 1940 adam :D ? mwahahahaha

[eternal_spirit]

Hubbard was a fraud a cunning lier just like todays Scientologists. You won't take any converts from this site mr.

[bigus_dickus]

Scientology doesn't assume anything. I'd assume you're not free at least in the sense I mean.

and so would any "auditor". but, why?

What do you make of the matrix in Icke's work. We're talking about essentially the same thing here.

david borrows the word "matrix" from the movie called "the matrix" and that because he believes that reality resembles the situation in the movie in a way. so, the movie is about a "software" reality that is being created by artificial means, keeping living souls in an illusion by messing with their minds.

david says that it is dna that is writing the software of our illusion and that our part in it, is to do it by being influenced by malicious entities and secret societies who want world domination.

and then he says that it's all bollocks and that if we stop playing their game, not take it too seriously and open our hearts to infinite love, we realize that we are beings of infinite potential.

in reality, the word "matrix" means womb. it also means pregnant animal, or mother.

matrix
1373, from O.Fr. matrice, from L. matrix (gen. matricis) "pregnant animal," in L.L. "womb," also "source, origin," from mater (gen. matris) "mother." Sense of "place or medium where something is developed" is first recorded 1555; sense of "embedding or enclosing mass" first recorded 1641. Logical sense of "array of possible combinations of truth-values" is attested from 1914.

You do. Becoming freer spiritually gives you more choice of exactly how you create your own each moment.

"more" is an illusion. and also "less is more".

The only proof worth anything is the knowledge you have gained from observing things from yourself. I've done that with Scientology and know that it works.

how exactly do you know?

To explain that to you I'd need to understand more about what you mean by "out" as it refers to David's matrix.

in the context of what i wrote above, "out" would be to be born. but also, that would be no more "out" than it is now. what do you mean by "out"?

[adamadam]

and then he says that it's all bollocks and that if we stop playing their game, not take it too seriously and open our hearts to infinite love, we realize that we are beings of infinite potential.



It's good to do that. But I don't know that David describes exactly how to get that realisation so that it would work for everyone. More importantly, once we have that realisation - how do we get to the stage where we can actually start displaying some of that potential? That's where Scientology comes in.

[i am all i am]

That's where Scientology comes in.

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[tinmenace]

Uh huh!

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/emotes/bravo.gif

[eternal_spirit]

http://pages.globetrotter.net/mleblank/media/scientfuhr1.jpg Heres Ronnie boy

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.scientomogy.com/stopscientology/xenu_scientology.jpg

[oneofmany]

Not possible. :) What about Nichole Kidman, who after joining the scientology cult when Marrying Tom Cruise, left it after their split and renewed her faith with the catholic church

It isn't. Bullshit

Religion that is based on faith, or believing what you're told can obviously be used for control. so is scientology, control seems to be their main objective.
A religion (Scientology in this case) that has as one of it's most important tenets that you should observe for yourself and not believe anything anyone tells you does not fall into that category. If that's the case, why join scientology? you sound brainwashed my friend

[i am all i am]

you sound brainwashed my friend

Dogma is a powerful spell that some people haven't been able to avoid, or when caught haven't been able to free themselves from !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[oneofmany]

Dogma is a powerful spell that some people haven't been able to avoid, or when caught haven't been able to free themselves from !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

I agree

[bigus_dickus]

It's good to do that. But I don't know that David describes exactly how to get that realisation so that it would work for everyone. More importantly, once we have that realisation - how do we get to the stage where we can actually start displaying some of that potential? That's where Scientology comes in.

the biggest error than you can do once you realize this, is to think that you can teach it to other people and consequently set them free. you can't do that.. it's like you, the "infinitely powerful" being, telling me the "infinitely powerful" being: "come, let me show you how to be infinitely powerful". you can't do that, because we have never ceased to be what we are.

if you really "get it", you understand that you can't be a savior of this world, because there can't be a savior without people needing to be saved. and thus, you need people needing you in order to be a savior.

and moreover, if your help, any kind of help, is paid for with material wealth, it all gets thrown out of the window.

[adamadam]

BD,

What you are talking about is it being impossible/hard to help people without them wanting help. This is very true.


the biggest error than you can do once you realize this, is to think that you can teach it to other people and consequently set them free. you can't do that.. it's like you, the "infinitely powerful" being, telling me the "infinitely powerful" being: "come, let me show you how to be infinitely powerful". you can't do that, because we have never ceased to be what we are.

True or not, that's an unworkable idea though isn't it?

Anyway - no it's like A telling B - you have all these abilities that you seem to have forgotten how to use - if you do XYZ you can remember how to use them again.

[eternal_spirit]

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8841/happyscientologyyi1.jpg

[wormhole]

Rolling Stone magazine article about Scientology.
It's REALLY interesting, and anybody curious about the history and inner workings of Scientology, the beliefs, the indoctrination, what the members go through, and all the rest should read it:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology

[adamadam]

Except it's rubbish. And like I said Scientology isn't based on belief.

There is a member here who you can communicate with should that suit your tastes instead.

[i am all i am]

Rolling Stone magazine article about Scientology.
It's REALLY interesting, and anybody curious about the history and inner workings of Scientology, the beliefs, the indoctrination, what the members go through, and all the rest should read it:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology

Here's a great site that also offers other links as well...

http://www.xenu.net/


What Scientology Won't Tell You

An Information Pack

Are things being hidden from you?
Welcome to the Operation Clambake info pack!
Sample cover letter
Who was L. Ron Hubbard?
Hubbard in his own words
The beliefs and teachings of Scientology
Thought control and Scientology
A brief history of the Church of Scientology
Scientology's front groups
What is applied scholastics?
What is Narconon?
What is the Citizens Commission on Human Rights?
What is W.I.S.E.?
Scientology and the media: a guide for journalists
Kids & Scientology
How to talk to a Scientologist
About refunds

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/


RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:

The official Church of Scientology website:

www.scientology.org


Websites for the Freezone, practicing Scientology outside the CoS:

www.fzaoint.net

www.fza.org

www.freezone.org


Alternate views:

www.xenu.net

www.factnet.org

www.scientologywatch.org

www.suppressiveperson.org/

www.spaink.net

www.snafu.de/~tilman/

www.narconon-exposed.org

www.studytech.org

www.modemac.com

www.truthaboutscientology.com

www.scientology-lies.com

www.lermanet.com

www.freedomofmind.com

www.altreligionscientology.org

www.xenutv.com

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/5.htm



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[tinmenace]

Except it's rubbish. And like I said Scientology isn't based on belief.



A religion (Scientology in this case) that has as one of it's most important tenets that you should observe for yourself and not believe anything anyone tells you does not fall into that category.

A blatant contradiction!


RELIGION

One entry found for religion.
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

Source (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religions)

Adam, most of the people here are genuine truth seekers on a good spiritual path. They don't need fixing, because they're not broken. You are not going to convince people to have faith this religion works when there are levels of SECRECY to it! - "Just be patient, you'll be given more info when we decide you are ready". It's a form of indoctrination. They have to be sure that one level of indoctrination has stuck properly before they can move onto the next level. If they divulged the higher level information right off the bat without priming you first, your instinct would tell you it's bullshit. What they do is suppress your natural intuitions so that they can indoctrinate you. Woe is you for not recognizing this.

Like David asked in one of his books; who is he to decide if we are ready for the information he's about to divulge? That's not up to him. He'll provide the info and it's up to us to use it as we see fit. David is a warrior for TRUE FREEDOM.

Anyone or anything that tells me that I don't have a right to information because I'm not worthy or ready, is an agent of disinformation. Secrecy in Scientology is no different to secrecy in Freemasonry, or the Skull and Bones, or any other secretive organization.

DISINFORMATION
One entry found for disinformation.
Main Entry: dis·in·for·ma·tion
Pronunciation: (")dis-"in-f&r-'mA-sh&n
Function: noun

: false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth

Source (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/disinformation)

Secrets are intended for the control of the weak minded. You're looking in the wrong place for recruits.

Be careful how you compare David's work to Scientology. It's DISINFORMATION and borderline slander.

Tell whomever sent you here that I said you're doing a rotten job convincing us that Scientology is a good and clear path. Tell them to send in a better programmed robot, someone who can answer the questions I asked of you at the beginning of this thread (that you still haven't answered).




http://www.globalfailure.com/images/emotes/3D_emoticon_184.gif

[i am all i am]

She shoots...she scores !!!

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6205/goaltw7.gif



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[barbitone]

classic debate:D

[mart]

Adam, most of the people here are genuine truth seekers on a good spiritual path. They don't need fixing, because they're not broken. You are not going to convince people to have faith this religion works when there are levels of SECRECY to it! - "Just be patient, you'll be given more info when we decide you are ready". It's a form of indoctrination. They have to be sure that one level of indoctrination has stuck properly before they can move onto the next level. If they divulged the higher level information right off the bat without priming you first, your instinct would tell you it's bullshit. What they do is suppress your natural intuitions so that they can indoctrinate you. Woe is you for not recognizing this......

Hi Tinmenace, I'm new to this forum and just read your message. I thought it was brilliantly said and brilliantly summed up!!
I won't deny that perhaps adamadam and others like him have had some
positive and useful experiences with Scientology but there's way too much
evidence out there exposing the darker side to Scientology as well. In my own experience when i was 19yrs old, I was hounded by a Scientologist when I bought the book Dianetics. I would rec'v constant phone calls harassing me about joining. Their tactics are agressive and even more so on those that try to expose them for who they really are - I recently saw a documentary that clearly showed that. I love the way I am all I am listed all LRH Quotes as well, but you know what they say - people only see what they want to see.

[tinmenace]

Thank you all for the positive reinforcement.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/emotes/blowkisses.gif

[tinmenace]

Dogma is a powerful spell that some people haven't been able to avoid, or when caught haven't been able to free themselves from !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

Did I already compliment you on that statement?

100% Truth!

[adamadam]

Adam, most of the people here are genuine truth seekers on a good spiritual path.

I hope that's the case. Unfortunately I see too many people so wrapped up in trying to use human "logic" to understand things and convince themselves they shouldn't actually find out things for themselves.

[sweet cheeks]

Scientology is like big pharma - it sucks you dry and then kills you. ;)

[chattanova]

Scientology costs Tom Cruise key locations for WWII movie

'Germany has prohibited shooting of the Tom Cruise World War II thriller Valkyrie because of the actor's ties to Scientology. Germany has long contended the Church of Scientology is not a religion but an exploitative, profit-based business concern. Daily Variety is reporting this morning that the German Defense Ministry says the United Artists movie cannot be filmed at German military sites.'

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2007-06-26-cruise-scientology_N.htm

[adamadam]

Yes - utterly ridiculous. They won't be able to maintain that for long though as the European Court of Human Rights recently ruled in our favour.

http://www.freewebtown.com/luana/echr_pr_5apr07.pdf

[eternal_spirit]

Yes - utterly ridiculous. They won't be able to maintain that for long though as the European Court of Human Rights recently ruled in our favour.

http://www.freewebtown.com/luana/echr_pr_5apr07.pdf


Yes, how many people you have in high (LOW) places proves that it's an invention of the Elite in order to control the masses yet again, because they know most of us don't and won't buy into the old religions no more. Some of us are more informed and wiser to their tricks and won't fall for it.

Did you know Crowley was allegedley a cousin of Hubbard??? I can see the similarity between the two, if you look at enough pics maybe you can see it to. It's tied in with Freemasonry and Satanism that's what I think judging by the techniques, teachings and methods used.

[synergy777]

scientology, has anyone read dianetics, its funny, a bad sci fi novel with sitchin/annunaki = thetans crap.did anyone watch the tv programme on bbc 1. its a cult, even ron l hubbard said prior to starting scientology, the best way to make money is to start a religion.

[graflok]

I'm willing to give Tom Cruise the benefit of the doubt as he has won some points in that --

- he starred in Eyes Wide Shut, a somewhat revealing look at the illuminati
- sellout Steven Spielberg doesn't like Cruise and said he'd never work with him again
- Cruise openly criticizes psychiatry and psychiatric drugs which are major illuminati tools
- Sumner Redstone (Viacom chairman) fired Cruise from his Paramount contract and publicly criticized him, he says, because of Cruise's drug comments
- the German government isn't exactly something I admire

I don't think much of his acting and I don't agree with everything he says but I
do admire that he speaks out about what he believes in despite media attacks,
etc. He's one of the few "mega-stars" to do that

[eternal_spirit]

MKULTRA Scientology Cult (#18) - YouTube=

[adamadam]

scientology, has anyone read dianetics, its funny, a bad sci fi novel with sitchin/annunaki = thetans crap.did anyone watch the tv programme on bbc 1. its a cult, even ron l hubbard said prior to starting scientology, the best way to make money is to start a religion.

I'm glad you found Dianetics funny rather than depressing. :)

Have you read it yourself? I think you would have a hard time understanding it if your grammar in this quote reflects your understanding of grammar.

The joke was on Hubbard though if thought up Scientology to make money (do you have any evidence he said that?) because he worked at least 18 hours every day on it and actually donated most of the money he had earnt from his career as a writer to the religion.

[adamadam]

I'm willing to give Tom Cruise the benefit of the doubt as he has won some points in that --

- he starred in Eyes Wide Shut, a somewhat revealing look at the illuminati
- sellout Steven Spielberg doesn't like Cruise and said he'd never work with him again
- Cruise openly criticizes psychiatry and psychiatric drugs which are major illuminati tools
- Sumner Redstone (Viacom chairman) fired Cruise from his Paramount contract and publicly criticized him, he says, because of Cruise's drug comments
- the German government isn't exactly something I admire

I don't think much of his acting and I don't agree with everything he says but I
do admire that he speaks out about what he believes in despite media attacks,
etc. He's one of the few "mega-stars" to do that

Good for you. Pyschiatry is the number one tool of the illuminati - the idea is to drug the population so they can be easily manipulated and accept what they're told without question.

[tinmenace]

Have you read it yourself? I think you would have a hard time understanding it if your grammar in this quote reflects your understanding of grammar.



See, now there you go being a cock again!

Do you all suffer from this superiority complex, or is it just you that's on some kind of ego trip?

[graflok]

I think you would have a hard time understanding it if your grammar in this quote reflects your understanding of grammar.


You might want to see a doctor about that bullet hole in your foot.

[adamadam]

You might want to see a doctor about that bullet hole in your foot.

Care to help me out and explain what was wrong with that? :)

[klinker]

See, now there you go being a cock again!

Do you all suffer from this superiority complex, or is it just you that's on some kind of ego trip?

Rofl. :D:D

[tinmenace]

Rofl. :D:D

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4869/wwwmyemoticonscomgigglexh7.gif

[barbitone]

Give it up AdamAdam. Take five dried grammes of psilocybin mushrooms, watch the Matrix Trilogy and then come back here and join us in the real world.

[auron]

Give it up AdamAdam. Take five dried grammes of psilocybin mushrooms, watch the Matrix Trilogy and then come back here and join us in the real world.

:D

[tinmenace]

Excerpts from the June 1983 Penthouse - Interview with L. Ron Hubbard Jr.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/penthouse.jpg


L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., is a survivor. His appearance on earth, May 7, 1934, was the result of failed abortion rituals by his father, and Ron, after only six and a half months in the womb and at 2.2 pounds entered the world. His mother, Margeret ("Polly") Grubb, was to have one more child, Catherine May, before her husband ditched her in 1946 to enter into a bigamous marnage with Sarah Northrup. [The ex-girlfriend of Jack Parsons (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26734&postcount=17) ]

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/rondewolf.jpg
L. Ron Hubbard Jr. aka Ron DeWolf

He claims to recall, at six years, a vivid scene of his father performing an abortion ritual on his mother with a coat hanger. He remembers that when he was ten years old, his father, in an attempt to get his son in tune with his black-magic worship, laced the young hubbard's bubble gum with phenobarbital. Drugs were an important part of Ron Jr.'s growing up, as his father believed that they were the best way to get closer to Satan --the Antichrist of black magic.

Ron Jr. remembers his father as a "broke science-fiction writer" who espoused that the road to riches and glory lay in selling religion to the masses.

It was a dream come true --a science-fiction writer who not only created a world of fantasy but packaged it and sold it as reality.


Penthouse: Didn't your father have any interest in helping people?


Hubbard: No.


Penthouse: Never?


Hubbard: My father started out as a broke science-fiction writer. He was always broke in the late 1940s. He told me and a lot of other people that the way to make a million was to start a religion...


Penthouse: Did he write the book off the top of his head? Did he do any real research?


Hubbard: No research at all. When he has answered that question over the years, his answer has changed according to which biography he was writing... All the examples in the book --some 200 "real-life experiences" --were just the result of his obsessions with abortions and unconscious states... The rest stem from his own secret life, which was deeply involved in the occult and black-magic. That involvement goes back to when he was sixteen, living in Washington. D.C. He got hold of the book by Alistair Crowley called The Book of Law... It was basically an attempt to create an immaculate conception --except by Satan rather than by God. Another important idea was the creation of what they call embryo implants --of getting a satanic or demonic spirit to inhabit the body of a fetus. This would come about as a result of black-magic rituals, which included the use of hypnosis, drugs, and other dangerous and destructive practices. One of the important things was to destroy the evidence if you failed at this immaculate conception. That's how my father became obsessed with abortions. I have a memory of this that goes back to when I was six years old. It is certainly a problem for my father and for Scientology that I rememoer this. It was around 1939, 1940, that I watched my father doing something to my mother. She was lying on the bed and he was sitting on her, facing her feet. He had a coat hanger in his hand. There was blood all over the place. I remember my father shouting at me. "Go back to bed!" A little while later a doctor came and took her off to the hospital. She didn't talk about it for quite a number of years. Neither did my father.


Penthouse: He was trying to perform an abortion?


Hubbard: According to him and my mother, he tried to do it with me. I was born at six and a half months and weighed two pounds, two ounces. I mean, I wasn't born: this is what came out as a result of their attempt to abort me. It happened during a night of partying --he got involved in trying to do a black-magic number. Also, I've got to complete this by saying that he thought of himself as the Beast 666 incarnate.


Penthouse: The devil?


Hubbard: Yes. The Antichrist. Aleistair Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947, my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast and become the most powerful being in the universe.


Penthouse: You were sixteen years old at that time. What did you believe in?


Hubbard: I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology --and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works. Also, you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan.



Penthouse: What would happen if someone went to your class, decided it was bullshit, and never came back?


Hubbard: If you signed up for a course and you came to my class, I'd keep you there or go physically retrieve you if you left.


Penthouse: You'd already gotten the money, so why did you bother?


Hubbard: Because I thought I was all-knowing, all-powerful --totally arrogant and egotistical --for one thing. I was quite insufferable.


Penthouse: Your father knew this was going on?


Hubbard: Well, sure. Nobody did a thing in Scientology without his direct knowledge or consent or without his orders.


Penthouse: Did it ever go beyond these physical beatings?


Hubbard: I remember locking one girl up in a shack out in the desert for at least a couple or weeks.


Penthouse: Why were things like this never publicized?


Hubbard: Because the same reign of terror that occurred under Robespierre and Hitler occurred back then in the fifties, as it occurs now. You must realize that there is very little actual courage in this world. It's pretty easy to bend people around. It doesn't take much to shut people up, it really doesn't.


Penthouse: Did it attract young people as much as cults today?


Hubbard: Yes. We attracted quite a few hippies but we tried to stay a way from them, because they didn't have any money.


Penthouse: A poor man can't be a Scientologist?


Hubbard: No, oh no.


Hubbard: Two of the people we were involved with in the late fifties in England were Errol Flynn and a man who was high up in the Labor Party at the time. My father and Errol Flynn were very similar. They were only interested in money, sex, booze, and drugs... He would take anything to bed --boys, girls, Fifty-year-old women, ten-year-old boys, Flynn and my father had insatiable appetites.

Penthouse: And what about this Labor Party official?


Hubbard: He was a double agent for the KGB and for the British intelligence agency. He was also a raging homosexual. He wanted my father to use his black-magic, soul-cracking, brainwashing techniques on young boys. He wanted these boys as his own sexual slaves. He wanted to use my father's techniques to crack people's heads open because he was very influential in and around the British government --plus he was selling information to the Russians. And so was my father.


Penthouse: Your father was selling information to the Soviets?


Hubbard: Yes. That's where my father got the money to buy St. Hill Manor in East Grinstead, Sussex, which is the English headquarters of Scientology today.


Penthouse: Do you know any specific information that the KGB got from your father that might have been harmful to security?


Hubbard: The plans for an infrared heat-seeking missile in the early fifties... There has always been an inordinate interest on the part of Scientology in military and government personnel... They made very good Scientologists. They were very well trained.


Penthouse: Did your father do this just for money?


Hubbard: Yes. The more he made, the more he wanted.


Hubbard: The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on is: "Do as thou wilt." That is the whole of the law. It also comes from the black magic, from Alistair Crowley...

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/otowilt.jpg
Ordo Templi Orientis (http://www.oto-usa.org/about_oto.html)

...It means that you are a law unto yourself, that you are above the law, that you create your own law. You are above any other human considerations. Since you came into being by an act of will, you can do anything you will. If you decide to go out and kill somebody --bam! --that's it. An act of will. Not connected, to any emotions or feelings, not governed by any ethics or morality or law. They are very vicious people. Totally into attack...


Penthouse: When was the last time your father was seen in public?


Hubbard: Sometime in the sixties he granted an interview to British television. After that he didn't appear in public and just slowly became a recluse. One of the reasons he became a recluse was his own physical and mental condition was deteriorating so badly that he couldn't let the public or the Scientology membership know just what kind of shape he was in. He was a testament to the fact that Scientology didn't work.


Read Herber Jentzsch's response (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm) to this interview on behalf of the Church of Scientology at the bottom of the article


http://www.globalfailure.com/images/heber.jpg

[god is love]

David Icke is a decent man that offers his information to us so that we may discern by own own judgement what is feasable ,vaible or true.
Scientology was founded by L.Ron Hubbard a science fiction writer who was close friends with Jack Parsons ,a NASA rocket scientist ,a freely admitted Satanist ,Aleister Crowley a freely admitted Satanist & self styled Antichrist 666.

Seriously Mr.Icke has stated on many many occaisions that the unthinking masses stuck in the Matrix of lies are repeaters. Any science or religion that claims to have all knowledge or that claims everyone else is wrong is highly dubious and to be totally ignored.

The whole point about Mr. Icke is that he doesn't claim to have all the answers. He encourages us all to research on our own, reading and listening to all perspectives and then talking with freinds or adversaries in order to get a balanced understanding of what this reality really is.

Scientology is a business. You can only progress to higher knowledge by purchasing the next course or working for free for the Organization.

To believe all life comes from Galactic dictator is absurd. After all L.Ron Hubbard was aScince Fiction writer.Has it not occured to you that Scientology is Science Fiction?

[smashstuff]

Forget the propaganda, look at the SYMBOLS. Everything is revealed.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7098/storyja9.jpghttp://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9158/popebenedictxvimo1.jpg

Logo of Jesuits International:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/anunnaki_2006/cjilogo.gif

It is all Saturn worship.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8436/saturnshamashtt4.gif

[tinmenace]

Smashstuff, I took the liberty of quoting your symbolism info on the other Scientology thread. (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5984) I hope you don't mind. :)

[smashstuff]

Not at all!

[montag]

Forget the propaganda, look at the SYMBOLS. Everything is revealed.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7098/storyja9.jpghttp://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9158/popebenedictxvimo1.jpg

Logo of Jesuits International:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/anunnaki_2006/cjilogo.gif

It is all Saturn worship.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8436/saturnshamashtt4.gif

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3594/unionjackob2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-12

[truthsayer]

I hope that's the case. Unfortunately I see too many people so wrapped up in trying to use human "logic" to understand things and convince themselves they shouldn't actually find out things for themselves.

You really are ignorant to the purpose of this forum, David's work and why people come here. They are actually trying to uncover the truth, investigate and discuss (which does require logic and reasoning) with others as well as share findings and information uncovered.

You continue to contradict yourself with each post.

Scientology (http://www.scientology-lies.com/scientology/teachings/scientology.html) lies about nearly every aspect of its existence.
Membership

Scientology does not have 8 million members (http://www.scientology-lies.com/lie-01-02-members.html); it is not the fastest growing religion (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/stolgy_3.htm) in the world. It is, in fact, shrinking - involvement peaked in the 80s (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/source/peak.html) and hasn't recovered.
Founder L. Ron Hubbard (http://www.scientology-lies.com/people/executives/l-ron-hubbard.html)

He was not a nuclear physicist (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/Narconon/science.htm) or even a graduate of a legitimate university (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.lisamcpherson.org/cos/ftp/degrees.txt). He lied about his war record (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.ronthewarhero.org/claims.htm). He was a bigamist (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.clambake.org/archive/ronthenut/bigamy.htm), a drug abuser (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.holysmoke.org/dp000/16.htm), and a criminal (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.holysmoke.org/minton/mintonmx.htm).
Scientology's Scientific Basis or Workability

Scientology is not based on scientific research (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://skepdic.com/dianetic.html). Scientology does not work for most people - most who try it leave within a year after only one or two services (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/ccint/prelimanalysis.html).
Front Groups

Narconon (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/Narconon/sources/nn-scn_s.htm) and WISE (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://lisatrust.bogie.nl/scientology/essays/jeff-wise.htm) are part and parcel of Scientology, as shown by internal documents (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://whyaretheydead.net/misc/work/Command_Channels_of_Scientology.html) and the IRS settlement agreement (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://lisatrust.bogie.nl/scientology/irs-agreement-service.htm).
Fair Game (http://www.scientology-lies.com/scientology/policy/fair-game.html)

Scientology still practices "fair game" (http://www.scientology-lies.com/re.cgi?http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/media/ea120494.htm), a policy authorizing attacks on critics (http://www.scientology-lies.com/fairgame.policy.html).

[cybersurf]

hopefully most people here recognise the good work david icke is doing to get people to look at what is going on.
Before i started understanding scientology much of david's work had the ring of truth for me. It still does. David & scientology agree on so much which is indicative of the truth of both.

What is scientology? Well there is a lot of ignorance about scientology out there, just as there is about the things david talks about.
Scientology is an applied religious philosophy, which contains solutions to everyday problems, and enables you to become spiritually free. It does not rely on belief, only on trying things out and seeing the results.
There is a way out now of the matrix - this is too hard for most to believe.
Please don't post in this thread if you want to post anything negative, or you already know what scientology is.
But if you use the idea that scientology works and agrees with much of what david talks about as a working hypothesis i'll be very happy to answer your questions.

did you know that scientology was taken over in late 70's and early 80's by the same forces david icke is fighting against? The nwo, the police state.

They have turned it into black scientology, scientology taken over by the police state to make a slave rat out of us all.

There's a war now between black scientologists (cia, mi-6, mossad) and scientologists.

[octopusrex]

Give it up AdamAdam. Take five dried grammes of psilocybin mushrooms, watch the Matrix Trilogy and then come back here and join us in the real world.

I have no clue about Scientology .. but this advice is sound.

[eternal]

Now this is a story all about how
my life got flipped turned upside down
and I'd like to take a minute, just sit down and rest
I'll give you a free personality test!

In Mission Impossible, born and raised
Destroying thetans where I spent most of my days
Auditing, scamming, relaxing all cool
And collecting some money outside of the school
when a couple of people started raiding without apologies
so I had to defend my cult of scientology

I got in one little fight and L.Ron Hubbard got scared
he said "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air"

I whistled for Xenu and when he came near
The e-meter said "brainwash" and it had dice in the mirror
If anything I could say this scam was rare
But I said fuck it now! Yo, Xenu, to Bel-Air!


I paid them in millions, about seven or eight
And I yelled to L.Ron. Yo Hubbard smell you later
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there.
Now I'm scamming the innocent in a town called Bel-Air.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/c1/Xenufinger.jpg

[halleyscomet]

Everything you need to know about Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/) can be found at Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net/)

What is Scientology? (http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html)

What Scientology Won't Tell You: An Information Pack (http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/)

[moina]

Now this is a story all about how
my life got flipped turned upside down
and I'd like to take a minute, just sit down and rest
I'll give you a free personality test!

In Mission Impossible, born and raised
Destroying thetans where I spent most of my days
Auditing, scamming, relaxing all cool
And collecting some money outside of the school
when a couple of people started raiding without apologies
so I had to defend my cult of scientology

I got in one little fight and L.Ron Hubbard got scared
he said "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air"

I whistled for Xenu and when he came near
The e-meter said "brainwash" and it had dice in the mirror
If anything I could say this scam was rare
But I said fuck it now! Yo, Xenu, to Bel-Air!


I paid them in millions, about seven or eight
And I yelled to L.Ron. Yo Hubbard smell you later
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there.
Now I'm scamming the innocent in a town called Bel-Air.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/c1/Xenufinger.jpg

LOL!! Crazy remix.:o