Shariah Law Islamic laws

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Sharia/index.html




http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age






Muftis permit Muslims to break the law of the country of residence

http://www.answering-islam.org/Sharia/break_law.html

[eternal_spirit]

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age









The Catholic/Christian and the Jew threads dominate this forum, so it's time for a debate about Islam (many avoid the topic maybe because of the Iraq wars etc) That's not the issue on this thread.


from the link
says that it's
okay for an old man to marry a 9 year old girl - The Prophet Mohhamed when he was 53 was said to have married Aisha when she was 9 years old.:(

I read something recently whilst reading a general article about what England 1700 - 1900's was like - that in England up until 1929 that the age for common law marriage for a girl was 12 and for a boy 14 (at least they'd reached puberty by then) but Shariah law is still in practice Today (so it would seem) EDIT in one of the links on the other thread (Shariah Law thread) it says that Islamic (Sharia Law) is the law Muslims follow not the law of the country they are in - example England!

[zarah]

Shariah law is based on hadiths and not on the Qur'an.

Oh Mankind, indeed we created you from a male and female and have made you different nations and tribes so that you may get to know one another." (Qur'an, The Chambers [Al-Hujurat]: 13)

As Islam is based on respect for one another, it's imperative that Muslims follow the law of the land they live in.

[eternal_spirit]

Shariah law is based on hadiths and not on the Qur'an.

Oh Mankind, indeed we created you from a male and female and have made you different nations and tribes so that you may get to know one another." (Qur'an, The Chambers [Al-Hujurat]: 13)

As Islam is based on respect for one another, it's imperative that Muslims follow the law of the land they live in.

Shariah is Islamic law. Taught by Islam practiced by Islam. So seems some will follow and others will abide as you say. Does it bother you that Mohhamed was a Peadophile and Shariah Law promotes peadophilia?

[quetzalcoatl]

I fear the Islamic Mind-Control is far too absolute.. Technically Mohammad was a pedo.. & had multiple slaves.. I mean 'wives'.. never-mind the extremist element - jus looking @ the core beliefs & suppression of women is sickening enough.. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Plumed_Serpent/sick.gif His first impression WAS right - IT IS A DEMON! :mad:

Jehovah.. *cough* I mean 'Allah' does get around eh?

[mephibosheth]

Does it bother you that Mohhamed was a Peadophile and Shariah Law promotes peadophilia?

This isn't exactly fair or accurate.

First of all, there is and has been an ongoing debate (within Islam, by Muslim scholars and historians) about the age of Aisha (the supposedly 9 year old wife of Mohammed) at the time of marriage . Some suggest, based on various readings, that she was more likely 16-19. Others still say that the marriage itself would not have been consumated (as we say) until Aisha was physically able to handle the burden of being wife.

Second, our modern day romantic notions of marriage aren't an appropriate yard-stick to evaulate what was commonplace 1500 years ago in a different culture. We've made a real industry of extending human childhood, far beyond what people have experienced in the past. No doubt there have been countless 10 year old women being married and giving birth in human history. Its ludicrous to say that these were all the product of what we nowadays call 'pedophilia'.

There is yet a third consideration--that even if we grant the young age and consummation as such, that there may not have been any harm perpetrated on the young wife. That is, if there was even the possibility of harm being done to her, no further actions would be taken. Hence, the prophet, mindful of his laws, would not necessarily have demanded his, er, booty outright without a consideration of the state of his young wife.

Now mind you, Muslims ought not be able to circumvent our local laws which prohibit this type of relationship. Even if the prophet did it and it's allowed by Shariah law, that doesn't mean it is necessary or a right of Muslims to do it. I've quite confident that there is nary a Muslim man in this big ol' world that absolutely NEEDS to marry and have sex with a girl as young as 9 or 10. No matter what any number of prophets have done, in this day and age, this is not an acceptable practice.

8)

[1694]

From what I hear Shariah economics/monetary policy rocks. Their belief in sound money and no usary are probably as big a reason for the american wars as the oil they have.

What 2 things do this lot have in common: Lincoln, Kennedy, the Communists and the Muslims....Honest money and killed by Americans.

[eternal_spirit]

Muslim group behind ‘mega-mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain


A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.
The organisation, which has millions of followers worldwide, insists that it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims. However, intelligence agencies have cautioned that the group’s ability to fire young men with a zeal for Islam acts as a staging post, for some, along a path that leads to jihadist terrorism.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2419524.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2419524.ece)



check out some of the readers comments posted
quote
A £100 million of tax payers money to fund religious beliefs that I don't believe in. Why not spend the money on real stuff?

[mynameis]

Aren't there different schools of Sharia thought based on the kinds of clerics which are running their version of a religious courts? I think Iran uses Islamic Sharia law based in Shia's school of thought. I am not sure about Pakistan, and Afghanistan. I think that the parts about marriage of young girls has been repudiated in the law of places like Egypt, Turkey, and Jordan. I am not sure about the UAE, Oman, Qatar, other African counties. The Qur'an does include the passages, but most countries which are modernizing have repudiated this as a matter of law.

[zarah]

Shariah is Islamic law. Taught by Islam practiced by Islam. So seems some will follow and others will abide as you say. Does it bother you that Mohhamed was a Peadophile and Shariah Law promotes peadophilia?

Again, open to interpreation. I disagree with the poster who says that there's ongoing debates about Aisha's age, there is but the evidence of her being nine is pretty definintive in my opinion. There is no evidence that the marriage was consumated though, and, as I've said to you before, it's impossible to look at the situation logically without understanding 6th c middle eastern society. It was customary for a young girl to be taken in by a family through marriage and cared for, it's only contemporay sociey which projects women as sexual objects for the benefit of men with less than moral motives.

Can you show me where Shariah law promotes paedophillia? And would you also agree that western culture promotes paedopillia?

[zarah]

I fear the Islamic Mind-Control is far too absolute.. Technically Mohammad was a pedo.. & had multiple slaves.. I mean 'wives'.. never-mind the extremist element - jus looking @ the core beliefs & suppression of women is sickening enough.. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Plumed_Serpent/sick.gif His first impression WAS right - IT IS A DEMON! :mad:

Jehovah.. *cough* I mean 'Allah' does get around eh?

Muhammed had four wives. Before he came along and regulated marriage, for want of a better term - men were only permitted up to four wives, they were only permitted to marry again if a) the wife (ves) agreed and he could support all properly, he was only permitted to 'tap her lightly' if she didn't listen after hed spoken to her twice, all wives were given matriachial qualities and placed as the most important member of the household, they were given inheritance rights and the concept of a dowry was introduced - there were no laws surrounding how women could be treated and they were often beaten to death.


http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrights/womensrights.htm

[saaduh64]

Again, open to interpreation. I disagree with the poster who says that there's ongoing debates about Aisha's age, there is but the evidence of her being nine is pretty definintive in my opinion. There is no evidence that the marriage was consumated though, and, as I've said to you before, it's impossible to look at the situation logically without understanding 6th c middle eastern society. It was customary for a young girl to be taken in by a family through marriage and cared for, it's only contemporay sociey which projects women as sexual objects for the benefit of men with less than moral motives.

Can you show me where Shariah law promotes paedophillia? And would you also agree that western culture promotes paedopillia?

yes and it has also been stated in more than one texts that the prophet really did not um.. use up his booty as he got married, it is also stated in some places that though they were married then, aeysha did not move in with the prophet till she was old enough.
besides, whats the problem with anybody objecting when the two individuals of the marraige are agreed on it??? along with all the other people around them like aeysha's parents and prophet's other wives.

and mister eternal spirit, please note that similarly like in christianity, there are many black sheep in islam too, proposedly injected by non muslims, so of course you cant blame their decisions on al the muslims for islam is afterall a very peaceful religion, as peaceful as nature, it keeps put till its left put but stings hard if messed up with which is perfectly alright also according to present laws, ofcourse vengeance is everyone's right...

you cant necessarily call muslims as a terrorist religion

[major seven]

I fear the Islamic Mind-Control is far too absolute.. Technically Mohammad was a pedo.. & had multiple slaves.. I mean 'wives'.. never-mind the extremist element - jus looking @ the core beliefs & suppression of women is sickening enough.. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Plumed_Serpent/sick.gif His first impression WAS right - IT IS A DEMON! :mad:

Jehovah.. *cough* I mean 'Allah' does get around eh?

Q!
Jehova/Yahweh and Allah are not in the same Universe.
If they were, Yahweh would kick Allah's ass into another dimension.
Unfortunately, if Yahweh did that, He would then have to go to that other dimension and set everything there back to normal.

Sounds like Buddah has most of his crap together.

[major seven]

Saad says
"you cant necessarily call muslims as a terrorist religion"[/QUOTE]

Frank
Why not? Your religion was founded by a terrorist.

[eternal_spirit]

Again, open to interpreation. I disagree with the poster who says that there's ongoing debates about Aisha's age, there is but the evidence of her being nine is pretty definintive in my opinion. There is no evidence that the marriage was consumated though, and, as I've said to you before, it's impossible to look at the situation logically without understanding 6th c middle eastern society. It was customary for a young girl to be taken in by a family through marriage and cared for, it's only contemporay sociey which projects women as sexual objects for the benefit of men with less than moral motives.

Can you show me where Shariah law promotes paedophillia? And would you also agree that western culture promotes paedopillia?


"The conditions that have the most right to be fulfilled are those that make sexual intercourse lawful [i.e., those of the marriage contract]."

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age

No, I've seen some lies told by the media even on prime time news over the years they say most peados are white males. (maybe more have been prosecuted because in Islam it's considered legal the same as in the Talmud Judaism's texts which takes authority over the Old Testament which is where much of the Talmud originates from.

Islam and Judaism have much more in common than most realise - many times they will turn a blind eye to the wrong doings of their own members of their religion and communities (paedophilia goes unreported)
Many women like to be viewed as sexy and wanted the same goes for men. There's nothing wrong with beauty perfected by nature we were all born naked for Gods sake. Lets not deflect attention from the topic which is Sharia and Islamic laws.

Anyone needs more proof
Search - You tube/good video "Child marriage in Islam"

Also search something like - health problems related to sex at a young age.

[saaduh64]

buddy Yahweh and ALLAH are one and the same as like GOD.
and please state proof before you speak, you are calling our holy prophet a terrorist, do please dont take it lightly and state proof before you speak

[eternal_spirit]

Q!
Jehova/Yahweh and Allah are not in the same Universe.
If they were, Yahweh would kick Allah's ass into another dimension.
Unfortunately, if Yahweh did that, He would then have to go to that other dimension and set everything there back to normal.

Sounds like Buddah has most of his crap together.

Yahweh demanded the Israelites kill gentiles Islam calls them Kahfers or something same thing) Halal and Kosher sacrifices are similar. Barbaric and cruel. They both demand genital mutilation as initiations, which come from previous religions blood rites. Judaism and Islam are a major problem to mankind. Sorry Frank but I have to be frank and honest.

Let's stay on topic (Islam please)
BTW I'm not religious hence my sig.

[eternal_spirit]

buddy Yahweh and ALLAH are one and the same as like GOD.
and please state proof before you speak, you are calling our holy prophet a terrorist, do please dont take it lightly and state proof before you speak

Read you Koran for proof. Nothing to do with God. Books/texts of laws written by Priesthoods to control you the people, and give you a false sense of superiority over other religions and none religious peoples.

[eternal_spirit]

Muslim group behind ‘mega-mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain


A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.
The organisation, which has millions of followers worldwide, insists that it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims. However, intelligence agencies have cautioned that the group’s ability to fire young men with a zeal for Islam acts as a staging post, for some, along a path that leads to jihadist terrorism.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2419524.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2419524.ece)



check out some of the readers comments posted
quote
A £100 million of tax payers money to fund religious beliefs that I don't believe in. Why not spend the money on real stuff?
quote
The Sword Verses by the Doctrine of Naskh abrogate over 124 less violent verses in the Koran (when Mahomet failed to convince the Jews & Christians he was a "prophet", he ditched the inter-faith tolerance bit, gathered an army and spent the next 10 years of his "prophethood" until his death, as a warlord, mass murderer, rapist, condoner of rape by his army (a tactic of jihad to spread Islam), enslaved men, women, children and stole property ranging from goods to entire countries, according himself one-fifth of all such "war booty",committed paedophilia, and taught his followers Jihad, the permanent warfore to make islam the only ideology either forcing conversions, subjugating people as persecuted dhimmis paying jizyah taxes or killing them. All this is related in the Koran and the Hadiths (his life, words, deeds). His example as "an excellent model of conduct" (Koran 33:21) explains much of the Middle East's underdeveloped and constantly violent state and its threat to the West .
Martel, london,

[eternal_spirit]

No way would Muslims allow Christians to build a Church or Buddhists to build a temple in Mecca and pay for for it too.

[eternal_spirit]

Many British people live in poverty and things are getting worse, some are loosing their homes (and that's the tip of the iceberg) and you Muslims wanna build a Mosque with tax payers money! :(

If you don't like the British culture it's simple go live in an Islamic state, don't try and turn Britian into on!

The group (literally, the preaching party) belongs to the ultra-conservative Deobandi school of thought within Sunni Islam, whose adherents run more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques.

Tablighi Jamaat was founded in 1926, in India, by a Deobandi scholar, Muhammad Ilyas, who wanted to raise Islamic awareness among rural Muslims in south Asia. He promised them that by obeying Islamic laws and following the example of the Prophet Muhammad in their personal lives they would one day “dominate over non-believers” and become “masters of everything on this earth”.
Ishaq Patel, Tablighi Jamaat’s first amir (leader) in Britain, is said to have been on pilgrimage in Mecca when Ilyas’s successor gave him a long-term mission to win “the whole of Britain to Islam”.

[marpat]

Shariah is Islamic law. Taught by Islam practiced by Islam. So seems some will follow and others will abide as you say. Does it bother you that Mohhamed was a Peadophile and Shariah Law promotes peadophilia?

A lot of the Islamic laws are not in the Koran. Look at some of the punishments dished out such as stoning. The same occurs within the church, how many things are there which are not actually mentioned but which are later additions, which are then accepted as tradition until people become confused and cannot tell the original teaching sfrom the other later accretions.

[marpat]

Many British people live in poverty and things are getting worse, some are loosing their homes (and that's the tip of the iceberg) and you Muslims wanna build a Mosque with tazx payers money! :(

If you don't like the British culture it's simple go live in an Islamic state, don't try and trun Britian into on!

The group (literally, the preaching party) belongs to the ultra-conservative Deobandi school of thought within Sunni Islam, whose adherents run more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques.

Tablighi Jamaat was founded in 1926, in India, by a Deobandi scholar, Muhammad Ilyas, who wanted to raise Islamic awareness among rural Muslims in south Asia. He promised them that by obeying Islamic laws and following the example of the Prophet Muhammad in their personal lives they would one day “dominate over non-believers” and become “masters of everything on this earth”.
Ishaq Patel, Tablighi Jamaat’s first amir (leader) in Britain, is said to have been on pilgrimage in Mecca when Ilyas’s successor gave him a long-term mission to win “the whole of Britain to Islam”.

I cant see why they dont just let the Saudi's pay for their mosques over here. They are happy to pay for the establishement of radical groups.

Personally I think if they hate the west so much they should fuck off. I would not want to live in their countries as I dont want to wipe my ass iwth my hand and I dont like they way their men all hold hands when talking. They are happy to take our tax money for benefits while condeming us as immoral.

[saaduh64]

listen up buddy you are not the only taxpayers in britain, many muslims are also, and as per the law, everybody has the right to practice his or her religion as long as he she aint buttin in anothers, please remember the crhistian missionaries, and monasteries in christian minority areas.
besides i live in pakistan and i dont see anyone here complaining about churches built here, in fact st. patrics church is currently a landmark in my city karachi here.
you call that immoral?
then what are you killin thousands and thousands in iraq, just on the suspicion of chem warheads that werent even found there???
and dont tell me it wasnt you for i kno britain was america's no. 1 suporter on the matter.you people call others immoral forgetting the way you treated us from the sub continent as slaves for over 100 years...

[marpat]

listen up buddy you are not the only taxpayers in britain, many muslims are also, and as per the law, everybody has the right to practice his or her religion as long as he she aint buttin in anothers, please remember the crhistian missionaries, and monasteries in christian minority areas.
besides i live in pakistan and i dont see anyone here complaining about churches built here, in fact st. patrics church is currently a landmark in my city karachi here.
you call that immoral?
then what are you killin thousands and thousands in iraq, just on the suspicion of chem warheads that werent even found there???
and dont tell me it wasnt you for i kno britain was america's no. 1 suporter on the matter.you people call others immoral forgetting the way you treated us from the sub continent as slaves for over 100 years...

Nothing to lose your head over though. Personally I dont like the missionary thing anyway. I never like the methods of people who go to any place trying to find converts.

[major seven]

buddy Yahweh and ALLAH are one and the same as like GOD.
and please state proof before you speak, you are calling our holy prophet a terrorist, do please dont take it lightly and state proof before you speak


No Saad, Yahweh and Allah are NOT the same.
They may appear similar on the surface, but go deeper into their plans for man and there are differences.
Do a simple search like, Yahweh vs Allah.

Want to make a few bucks?
Take up the challenge at www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm.
Prove that your prophet was the wonderful standup dude you all think he was and make $50,000 dollars.

[eternal_spirit]

I'll tell you all a story.

I have Indian genes in my family.
They were born Christians in India at the time Muslims where murdering Christians (not sure if it was convert to Islam or be killed) Or they just didn't like Christians. I'll have to find out.

Anyway the family had to flee India to escape the murderous psychopathic Muslim fanatics. One of the Indians in my family ended up fighting against Germany on the side of the English during the war and then when back to India they got persecuted by Muslims as explained above.

BTW my Great Grandfather was German and don't even get me started about my Irish ancestors who where also persecuted by the English!

During the first War 1910 Germans were being expelled from Britain.

But they let Muslim fundamentalist terrorists in to Britain these day. You'll be happy when you have your Jihad on our people, because that's your game plan and you've been busted and exposed.

Slaves and invasions you know nothing about the true history of Britain (our governments and monarchies/religions are from foreign lands) we've been screwed far longer than most people.

Back on topic notice none of you Islamists have any problem with other posts (genital mutilation/ beheading for adultery/paedophilia/cutting off of hands for stealing a loaf of bread, to name a few, you shill and lie. Reject Islam if you have any morals.

Seeing as though you wanna try avoid the Issues and deflect attention away and blame others here



Bet not many know this......The term redneck came about, because the first
slaves taken to America were white English and Irish men, they couldn't
stand the heat, them being from a colder climate. They got sever sun burn
whilst bending over working the land "hence redneck", many died through
heat and exhaustion.

Britain at the time the conditions were bad, and you would be thrown in
jail for the pettiest of crimes) (foreign monarchies/religions laws/Usury) you almost couldn't fart for fear of
being arrested and thrown in prison. Then TPTB would send you off to
America as a slave, also the British were said to be the physically
strongest and hardest workers that's why they were the first SLAVES!


So, because the heat of the sun became too much for the white slaves, they
decided to bring in the black slaves from Africa, the blackman had his own
black slaves, so the official history books are LIES, it was nothing to do
with RACISM.

[saaduh64]

you dont really know the history and just keep quoting your parents like they were authorities???
lemme tell you, what you call as a christian massacre was nothing but, in fact many christians left the subcontinent because of the khilafat movement happening here, its rreasons, find out for yourself. and also go search how it all ended.
for all your general knowledge, it was started when england, destroyed the islamic rule of khilafat in turkey, and muslims all believed that khalifa to be their spiritual guide, please note the term guide, not leader.
and not only muslims but also hindu's, rational hindus under the leadership of mohatma Gandhi were in league with them, in fact khilafat movement was lead by Gandhi.
how it ended?, one peaceful demonstrated was beaten upon and it turned out to be a riot, most probably english ploy, but as soon as the news got to the leadership, the leadership disintegrated the movement because it was getting voilent. thats the real history, try the books.
and M.S. Allah and Yahweh are really one and the same, its just that Yahweh is so old, men have added fiction to the reality, and thus it all seems different to you, another belief we muslims have is that since Allah made the galaxy, any and all prophets, counting to 124000 almost were sent to the world by Him. thus the God of jesus, moses, adam, david etc is one and the same.

[eternal_spirit]

the institution of slavery not only is recognized but is elaborately regulated by Sharia law.

From a Muslim point of view, to forbid what God permits is almost as great an offense as to permit what God forbids - and slavery was authorized and regulated by the holy law.

Muslim traders went as far away as Scandinavia, and especially Sweden, where scores of Muslim coins have been found with inscriptions from the seventh and eleventh centuries. On the long lists of goods which Muslim traders imported from Scandinavia, are found 'Slavonic slaves, sheep, and cattle' (cited by Lewis in The Arabs in History). An early ninth century geographer, Ibn Kurradadhbeh, describes Jewish merchants from the south of France 'who speak Arabic, Persian, Greek, Frankish, Spanish, and Slavonic. They travel from west to east and east to west, by land and sea. From the west they bring eunuchs, slave girls and boys, brocade, beaver skins, sable and other furs, and swords'.

Arabia was another major center for the slave trade. The flow of slaves from Africa into Arabia and through the Gulf into Iran continued for a long time. The extension of British, French, and Italian control around the Horn of Africa (the area of Somalia and Kenya today) deprived the slave traders of their main ports of embarkation

Quite possibly, the maintenance of slavery and the social acceptance of slaves were important drawing cards for Islam as it penetrated Africa. Without a knowledge of history, many Africans may be unaware of the fact that Islamic traders carried on a steady slave trade from East African ports for many centuries. Records are available which contain the lists of goods involved in trade with the rest of the world.

http://www.answering-islam.org/ReachOut/slavetrade.html

[saaduh64]

Want to make a few bucks?
Take up the challenge at www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm.
Prove that your prophet was the wonderful standup dude you all think he was and make $50,000 dollars.
im not here for money dude, i just want you guys to clear your misconceptions, what is the use of money if i wont live long enough to use it???

Slaves and invasions you know nothing about the true history of Britain (our governments and monarchies/religions are from foreign lands) we've been screwed far longer than most people.


but not by muslims, pick up history and search muslim leaders, take saladin, mohammad bin qasim, all conquerors but all conquerors of hearts. thats what being a muslim means. you kill a horse when it is useless and in pain, is it bad?, is it immoral? even if you know that every second it lives is a hell on it???

none of you Islamists have any problem with other posts (genital mutilation/ beheading for adultery/paedophilia/cutting off of hands for stealing a loaf of bread, to name a few, you shill and lie. Reject Islam if you have any morals.

genital mutilation is actually researched to be an effective way to decraeace many different disieses in infants with its positive effects going far into adulthood

cutting off hands is what you call evil? let me tell you the whole rule, if you are caught stealing, your left hand will be cut down but if you are caught stealing in a time of draught, then you are let off once, first your left hand is cut then next time your right hand is also cut. please remember these rules were applied where every poor guy was sought after for the giving of zakat, such that even a poor guy never sleeps hungry. and if in such conditions one still tries to steal, the punishment is just seeing its far off effects, for once a punishment is given to a certain individual, it really makes an example and go see the history books as to how many theives there were left as a result.

and as for paedophilia, i dont like repeating myself, i have already explained it on another post.


and guys i will recommend rational queries. not long forgotten tales you got to hear at your momma's lap.

[saaduh64]

Want to make a few bucks?
Take up the challenge at www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm.
Prove that your prophet was the wonderful standup dude you all think he was and make $50,000 dollars.
im not here for money dude, i just want you guys to clear your misconceptions, what is the use of money if i wont live long enough to use it???

Slaves and invasions you know nothing about the true history of Britain (our governments and monarchies/religions are from foreign lands) we've been screwed far longer than most people.


but not by muslims, pick up history and search muslim leaders, take saladin, mohammad bin qasim, all conquerors but all conquerors of hearts. thats what being a muslim means. you kill a horse when it is useless and in pain, is it bad?, is it immoral? even if you know that every second it lives is a hell on it???

none of you Islamists have any problem with other posts (genital mutilation/ beheading for adultery/paedophilia/cutting off of hands for stealing a loaf of bread, to name a few, you shill and lie. Reject Islam if you have any morals.

genital mutilation is actually researched to be an effective way to decraeace many different disieses in infants with its positive effects going far into adulthood

cutting off hands is what you call evil? let me tell you the whole rule, if you are caught stealing, your left hand will be cut down but if you are caught stealing in a time of draught, then you are let off once, first your left hand is cut then next time your right hand is also cut. please remember these rules were applied where every poor guy was sought after for the giving of zakat, such that even a poor guy never sleeps hungry. and if in such conditions one still tries to steal, the punishment is just seeing its far off effects, for once a punishment is given to a certain individual, it really makes an example and go see the history books as to how many theives there were left as a result.

and as for paedophilia, i dont like repeating myself, i have already explained it on another post.


and guys i will recommend rational queries. not long forgotten tales you got to hear at your momma's lap.

[major seven]

"and M.S. Allah and Yahweh are really one and the same, its just that Yahweh is so old, men have added fiction to the reality, and thus it all seems different to you, another belief we muslims have is that since Allah made the galaxy, any and all prophets, counting to 124000 almost were sent to the world by Him. thus the God of jesus, moses, adam, david etc is one and the same."


Hey Saad
Don't forget my 10% finders fee for when you win the big challenge at www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm.
Must be a pretty fair challenge after 8 years and no winners yet.
Good Luck and all that!

[saaduh64]

Don't forget my 10% finders fee for when you win the big challenge at www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm.
Must be a pretty fair challenge after 8 years and no winners yet.

lol
man i aint no scholar, just a student of architecture who thinks before he does ANYTHING and i mean anything... hee hee
seems nerdy aint it
but as i said i aint a representative of islam just here to help you understand islam better...

[major seven]

[QUOTE=saaduh64;602206]im not here for money dude, i just want you guys to clear your misconceptions, what is the use of money if i wont live long enough to use it???



So go win the Challenge and then donate the money to your favorite mosque or whatever. Feed the poor. Help an orphanage.

Frank

[eternal_spirit]

genital mutilation is actually researched to be an effective way to decraeace many different disieses in infants with its positive effects going far into adulthood

cutting off hands is what you call evil? let me tell you the whole rule, if you are caught stealing, your left hand will be cut down but if you are caught stealing in a time of draught, then you are let off once, first your left hand is cut then next time your right hand is also cut. please remember these rules were applied where every poor guy was sought after for the giving of zakat, such that even a poor guy never sleeps hungry. and if in such conditions one still tries to steal, the punishment is just seeing its far off effects, for once a punishment is given to a certain individual, it really makes an example and go see the history books as to how many theives there were left as a result.




Sorry but that's nonsense you've been lied too. Doctors have proven there's no benefits (only under extremely rare medical conditions and even then full blown operation isn't needed - just a small incision to loosen a tight foreskin, or even stretching methods some say would work without the incision)
It's been debated on here before use the search function or google you tube some vids. ( I may dig out some links later for proof)

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
People have bled to death and gotten infections resulting in death and what you do to your own women is pure evil.

Islam sure does a good job at brainwashing it's people. Chopping off of hands can never be justified, especially for such petty crimes. Not to mention someone who is mentally ill who may be suffering psychosis and not be aware of their own actions IMO. (I knew what your reply would be straight from the Priesthood's laws) EDIT a man with one hand is more of a burden on others and less able to contribute to the community (so the laws solution defies logic)

[major seven]

lol
man i aint no scholar, just a student of architecture who thinks before he does ANYTHING and i mean anything... hee hee
seems nerdy aint it
but as i said i aint a representative of islam just here to help you understand islam better...


OK! Here is one.
Why do you guys have to pray 5 times a day and who said to do that?
Why did God of the Jewish/christians say to worship just once a week?
Why would God need that amount of worshipping?

[saaduh64]

mr E.S its not i being lied to but in any case lets discuss it like grown ups each agreeing to rectify his mistake if proven wrong.
first of all you cannot blame indecent use of a certain practice to be the basis of the whole of practice, you gimme links, i aint interested, we all know how much videos like these can be trusted, talk to me through logic.

logically speaking, curcumsission is fairly hygienical, the way it was originally practiced no one died, even i live in a muslim majority community and EVERYONE is circumsised at birth, i heard of not one case of bleeding to death.
and medically speaking, a guy not circumsised has an extra amount of skin covering his dick-head, this extra amount of skin also has access to any piss passing through the dick, so hypothetically if it stays there and gets stagnant, you can imagine how many medical peculiarities may happen, this is just one point that just occured to me, there may be many more.

Chopping off of hands can never be justified, especially for such petty crimes. Not to mention someone who is mentally ill who may be suffering psychosis and not be aware of their own actions IMO.

on the contrary it can, did you give thought to the background i just created of that practice?
in that background, everybody was fed and there was little or no unemployment, even when a kid was born, a certain amount was granted to his parents until he got married meaning no such problems, as for other mental desieses, they were virtually nonexistant because of the legendary love and care between muslims. so any act of thievery, may only be constituted as lawless and selfish and aggressive, in my country, most of the unaccidental deaths happen during muggeries, people come asking for your mobile and shoot you as soon as they feel danger wether from you or not, so the bestt way to end this all altogether is the islamic way

[saaduh64]

Why do you guys have to pray 5 times a day and who said to do that?
Why did God of the Jewish/christians say to worship just once a week?
Why would God need that amount of worshipping?

personally speaking, i believe in Allah and His existence and his love for us all. now i know He made us all and need no worshipping but We need to worship Him, for this we know he is observing us whatever we do so why not make him happy so as he grant us a lot more than what we already have thats why we pray. and his prophet taught us how best to appease our God.

my philosophy teacher once said to me
jews are taught to serve God
christians are taught to Love God
but Muslims, the last of all are taught to Love as well as serve God.
so of course there may be minor differences as to the timing of prayers but hey, aint we all praying to God???
i think i answered your third question in my first

see ya

[eternal_spirit]

I fear the Islamic Mind-Control is far too absolute.. Technically Mohammad was a pedo.. & had multiple slaves.. I mean 'wives'.. never-mind the extremist element - jus looking @ the core beliefs & suppression of women is sickening enough.. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Plumed_Serpent/sick.gif His first impression WAS right - IT IS A DEMON! :mad:

Jehovah.. *cough* I mean 'Allah' does get around eh?

Jehovah is also Yahweh something you may find of interest about the Yahweh Allah connections here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=602511&postcount=7

And I agree with your post. The brainwashed have arrived seems they really believe the lies they post. (they cannot grasp logic and are in denial or are knowingly untruthful)

[mephibosheth]

Genital mutilation is completely unnecessary medically and totally against common sense and reason.

If the Most High God, supposed creator all all things, so despised foreskins and clitorises, why o' why did hesh create them in the first place?

If God made human beings, human beings were made AS IS, complete and perfect in their form. Any physical modification done in the name of 'religion' is utterly man-made, a means of distinguishing human beings from one another, ie, a tool of division, segregation, and ultimately tryanny and oppression.


logically speaking, curcumsission is fairly hygienical, the way it was originally practiced no one died, even i live in a muslim majority community and EVERYONE is circumsised at birth, i heard of not one case of bleeding to death.
and medically speaking, a guy not circumsised has an extra amount of skin covering his dick-head, this extra amount of skin also has access to any piss passing through the dick, so hypothetically if it stays there and gets stagnant, you can imagine how many medical peculiarities may happen, this is just one point that just occured to me, there may be many more.


Its called 'taking a bath'. LOL. If human beings wash themselves regularly, this is completely a NON-issue. If a man merely pulls back his foreskin when taking a leak, this is a non-issue. In fact, the foreskin protects the glans from external irritations. That's its PURPOSE. But I guess God made a mistake when putting that skin there. Oops!


..in my country, most of the unaccidental deaths happen during muggeries, people come asking for your mobile and shoot you as soon as they feel danger wether from you or not, so the bestt way to end this all altogether is the islamic way

No, the best way to end violence is ending economic disparity, political oppression, and educating human beings to raise their awareness to a higher level, one based on compassion for fellow sentient beings, and an intimate understanding of humanity's delicate place in the ecosystem of the world. Killing infidels and cutting off hands doesn't prevent crime or cure the root causes of social unrest. How could it? Is that what we desire? A system of fear to keep us in line? I think we've had enough of that.

8)

[zarah]

No, I've seen some lies told by the media even on prime time news over the years they say most peados are white males. (maybe more have been prosecuted because in Islam it's considered legal the same as in the Talmud Judaism's texts which takes authority over the Old Testament which is where much of the Talmud originates from.

In many Islamic countries which have elements of Shariah law written into their constitution or national laws, the minimum age of marriage is 13 - 15, which is one year younger than the current age of consent in this country. Both parties have to agree to the marriage, and my understanding of the reasoning behind this ruling is to minimise the incidents of under age, and therefore illegal, sex. I think you're referring to elements of the Talmud which refer to three year old kids..there is nothing so vile in the Qu'ran or hadiths.


Islam and Judaism have much more in common than most realise - many times they will turn a blind eye to the wrong doings of their own members of their religion and communities (paedophilia goes unreported)
Many women like to be viewed as sexy and wanted the same goes for men. There's nothing wrong with beauty perfected by nature we were all born naked for Gods sake. Lets not deflect attention from the topic which is Sharia and Islamic laws.

I wasn't referring to adult women or men being 'sexy', I was referring to the sexualisation of children within our society. You've seen the Disney advert of a child of about 10 lounging in Disney underwear, I take it? Or Britney Spears cavorting about in a school uniform talking about being hit one last time.

Can you provide some evidence that:

a) Shariah law condones paedophillia i.e. the display of sexual interest in pre-pubertal children and

b) That Islamic societies protect those who display such disorders

[eternal_spirit]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2WKp8AE1w

[zarah]

So your reply is to post a You Tube video which when taken out of context, which seems to be something of a hobby to you, disparages the essence of the faith.

1. Girls start their perods from the age of ten to seventeen, generally. It doesn't talk about pre-pubescent girls, which is the definition of paedphillia as you will know.

2. 'Consumed' not 'consumated' you will note. Consumed means to have, yes? To 'have' marriage.

We're all entitled to an opinion obviously, and I dislike the concept of organised religion probably as much as you. What I also dislike though is misrespresentation. It's a cheap tactic and you can do better.

[major seven]

Saad says
[QUOTE=saaduh64;602334]personally speaking, i believe in Allah and His existence and his love for us all. now i know He made us all and need no worshipping but We need to worship Him, for this we know he is observing us whatever we do so why not make him happy so as he grant us a lot more than what we already have thats why we pray. and his prophet taught us how best to appease our God.


OK Saad
You said before that you like to "think before you do anything".
Thats Cool! But as far as Islam goes, what you think is mainly a product of your environment and growing up with it and your family and imams pounding Islam into your brain everyday of your life. Same goes with just about everybody else and with what they mainly believe. Right?
Now you think Mohammud is Allah's prophet and so freakin wonderful that
half a zillion Muslim men got his name in theirs somewhere and that whatever he teaches came from Allah himself.
What if Mohammud wasn't such a wonderfull human being?
Would you still be able to take his word for it that what he says came from Allah?
Here is something from a debate with Ayatollah Monazeri that might shed some light on Mohammuds charachter.
www.faithfreedom.org/debates/monazeri2.htm

By the way! That Sina dude upped his challenge a tad. You can bring in a Scholar of your choice and if you WIN, you BOTH get $50,000 a piece.
I don't know what it costs to go to Archetecture school there, but around here it might make your 1st Semester.

Frank

[major seven]

Saad says
[QUOTE=saaduh64;602334]personally speaking, i believe in Allah and His existence and his love for us all. now i know He made us all and need no worshipping but We need to worship Him, for this we know he is observing us whatever we do so why not make him happy so as he grant us a lot more than what we already have thats why we pray. and his prophet taught us how best to appease our God.


OK Saad
You said before that you like to "think before you do anything".
Thats Cool! But as far as Islam goes, what you think is mainly a product of your environment and growing up with it and your family and imams pounding Islam into your brain everyday of your life. Same goes with just about everybody else and with what they mainly believe. Right?
Now you think Mohammud is Allah's prophet and so freakin wonderful that
half a zillion Muslim men got his name in theirs somewhere and that whatever he teaches came from Allah himself.
What if Mohammud wasn't such a wonderfull human being?
Would you still be able to take his word for it that what he says came from Allah?
Here is something from a debate with Ayatollah Monazeri that might shed some light on Mohammuds charachter.
www.faithfreedom.org/debates/monazeri2.htm

By the way! That Sina dude upped his challenge a tad. You can bring in a Scholar of your choice and if you WIN, you BOTH get $50,000 a piece.
I don't know what it costs to go to Archetecture school there, but around here it might make your 1st Semester.

Frank


Correction on the web site.
www.faithfreedom.org/debates/montazeri2.htm

[eternal_spirit]

So your reply is to post a You Tube video which when taken out of context, which seems to be something of a hobby to you, disparages the essence of the faith.

1. Girls start their perods from the age of ten to seventeen, generally. It doesn't talk about pre-pubescent girls, which is the definition of paedphillia as you will know.

2. 'Consumed' not 'consumated' you will note. Consumed means to have, yes? To 'have' marriage.

We're all entitled to an opinion obviously, and I dislike the concept of organised religion probably as much as you. What I also dislike though is misrespresentation. It's a cheap tactic and you can do better.

Zarah if you don't like what I post there's many more videos do a search "Child Brides Islam" the proof is there same as in the religious texts and the commentaries on the life of Mohhamed by the Priesthood.

(I've already said this before)

I've taken nothing out of context and already answered your question on this thread


"The conditions that have the most right to be fulfilled are those that make sexual intercourse lawful [i.e., those of the marriage contract]."

here link not far down the page

http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...riage.html#age (http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age)


Quote:
Originally Posted by zarah http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=601599#post601599)
Again, open to interpreation. I disagree with the poster who says that there's ongoing debates about Aisha's age, there is but the evidence of her being nine is pretty definintive in my opinion. There is no evidence that the marriage was consumated though
Can you show me where Shariah law promotes paedophillia?

[eternal_spirit]

I apologise if anythings being taken out of context feel free to correct any errors. I'll re read through the thread when I'm more focused.

[dedicate]

It's really unfortunate that the money men destroyed Islam for everybody. It was really easy for them to do, though. They funded and armed every reactionary militant group they could find.-- the peaceful people like the B'ahais and the Sufis were instantly killed off. Now it is just a militant/hard rules/reactionary theocracy found over there and growing. This was how the Money men got to loot the oil, build a prison for anyone growing up in Islam, and create a fierce growing future enemy for the West. Just like they want.

I also see the Money Men have been doing their job in Great Britain working this Islam-the-enemy card and encourageing irreconsilable conflicts between two sick cultures. The same thing is happening here in parts of the U.S. So eventually we will fight and kill each other. Just like they want.

[zarah]

Zarah if you don't like what I post there's many more videos do a search "Child Brides Islam" the proof is there same as in the religious texts and the commentaries on the life of Mohhamed by the Priesthood.

(I've already said this before)

I've taken nothing out of context and already answered your question on this thread


"The conditions that have the most right to be fulfilled are those that make sexual intercourse lawful [i.e., those of the marriage contract]."

here link not far down the page

http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...riage.html#age (http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age)


Quote:
Originally Posted by zarah http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=601599#post601599)
Again, open to interpreation. I disagree with the poster who says that there's ongoing debates about Aisha's age, there is but the evidence of her being nine is pretty definintive in my opinion. There is no evidence that the marriage was consumated though
Can you show me where Shariah law promotes paedophillia?



You're not actually showing explicit evidence though, are you? You're showing me cut and paste jobbies from You Tube which anyone can post.

The Qur'an doesn't refer to an age of consent in marriage, it simply talks about a girl or boy reaching maturity. As you know, there are five different types of Shariah law, and again, none state a specific age, (although an esteemed Sunni scholar as recently released a book detailing the rights of children including a call for an age of consent). The Qu'ran talks about marriage being consensual with each person making decisions for themselves, and you're right - a child of 13 or 14 is far too young to make such life altering adult decisions. In my opinion, child marriage has simply been interpreted from the Qu'ran by those with an agenda and takes place in may countries where it's a societal norm and practiced by other mainstream faiths, such as Hindis in India and Christians in Egypt (where I think in some cases, children as young as ten can be married off to each other).

The reason why I accuse you of consistently attacking Islam and taking facts out of context is because I think you fail to look at the topic subjectively and holistically, in order that you make the most impact. Yes, Aisha was a child bride, which you refer to, but you also fail to point out that it's simply interpretation as to whether the marriage was then consumated. Evidence, which you would get from looking at ME society mid 7th c, would suggests that it wasn't until she had reached the defined maturity level at that time, which was when menstrual cycles begin and this is repeated in the Qu'ran.

With regard to you answering my question on western propagation of paedophillia, you didn't. You simply brushed it off as not pertinant to our debate. I disagree and feel that the correlation between your assumption that Islam is a religion of paedophilles because their are those that marry of girls of 13 and our societal obsession of sexualising young girls is extremely relevant.

[saaduh64]

frank buddy, ive already been there, you can go search out my thread, and no i said it a long while ago, the way i practice my religion is probably way different than my parents. and as such any imam, for obviously, my parents like many others, mix tradition with religion and i am currently on my way to change their thoughts too.
but when it comes right down to it, some people just wont agree to the fact even though they agree that the logic supporting it is sounnd, such is the case with my parents, and seems like such is the case with many more, do please tell me what have i said that has no logic behind it, i even have my own understanding on the belief of wether there is a God or not, want it???

[dedicate]

Islam has had it's day. Same with Judaism. Time to leave them behind, like some worn out piece of clothing. God would approve.

Christianity is but a shadow of what it will be, but someday it will be time to move along with that also. I will be the first to accept this new reality when the day cometh. I will not hold on to Christianity beyond it's shelf date.

You say that is an awful thought. But really, Religion is not something to worship. Islam can be a false God too.

Only when one accepts life as eternal, beginingless, endless, not limited to this one short life on this one small planet, can one come to this understanding. There is no eternal spot to rest; that would be death. Answer the eternal Call of Allah. The call that rises one to new heights and lofty places. The One you've followed for 5 million years and more, when you were in a different room doing different things wearing different cloths. And the call you will follow 5 million years hence.

Just don't forget Allah, that is all.-- forsake all else. (it must say that in the Quaran somewhere)

[marpat]

Saad can you answer a question. In the Koran it is forbidden to kill a believer except by accident. How do all these muslim fighters justify their killing of other muslims for nothing more than greed and power?

I can understand that they do such things but to try and make religions an excuse to do it when it is clearly forbidden seems stupid.

[eternal_spirit]

The practice of circumcision in Islam comes from the Hadith, Shariah law and the consensus of Islamic communities.

The Hadith

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu-Dawud: book 41, number 5251, Hasan)

Part 2.
The Shariah

The following reference to Shariah law comes from Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. This book comes with the approval al-Azhar University.

Al-Azhar University ( الأزهر الشريف) is the leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world.

And proof that Muslims follow Sharia Islamic laws and break the laws of Britian.

female circumcision in britain - Google Search

1. Female genital mutilation in Britain (http://www.bmj.com/archive/6994ed1.htm)

"This article is concerned with female genital mutilation in Britain. The term is preferable to female circumcision, which is inaccurate and implies a minor ..."
www.bmj.com/archive/6994ed1.htm

2. Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 (c. 31) (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/ukpga_20030031_en_1)

"(1) The Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985 (c. 38) ceases to have effect. (2) In paragraph 1(b) of the Schedule to the Visiting Forces Act 1952 (c. ..."
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/ukpga_20030031_en_1

3. BBC News | HEALTH | Female circumcision clampdown call (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1033732.stm)

"Female 'circumcision by words' gains ground. 22 Nov 00 | Health 'Harmful' tradition continues in Britain. Internet links: ..."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1033732.stm

4. BBC NEWS | Health | Medical notes | Female genital mutilation (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/medical_notes/241221.stm)

"The cultural and religious practice of female circumcision is a health hazard that maims and ... Canada, France, Australia and Britain, where it is illegal. ..."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/medical_notes/241221.stm

5. The Royal College of Midwives (http://www.rcm.org.uk/professional/docs/PP%2021%20Female%20Genital%20Mutilation.doc)

"Female Genital Mutilation and Female Circumcision are different terms for the ... Azadeh H (1997) Female circumcision, genital mutilation and childbirth - a ..."
www.rcm.org.uk/professional/docs/PP%2021%20Female%20Genital%20Mutilation.doc

6. The unspeakable practice of female circumcision that's destroying ... (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=505796&in_page_id=1879)

"3 Jan 2008 ... The unspeakable practice of female circumcision that's destroying young women's lives in Britain. By JO-ANN GOODWIN and DAVID JONES - More ..."
www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=505796&in_page_id=1879

7. Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) | FORWARD (http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fgm)

"Female genital mutilation (FGM), also known as female circumcision or female genital cutting, is defined as the range of procedures which involve 'the ..."
www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fgm

8. BMA - Female genital mutilation (http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/FGM)

"Female genital mutilation - caring for patients and child protection ... “Female genital mutilation is a fundamental human rights issue with adverse health ..."
www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/FGM

9. BMA - The UK (http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/FGM%7EUK)

"In Britain, female genital mutilation is seen in some ethnic groups that have immigrated to this country, often as refugees. The main groups in the UK are ..."
www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/FGM~UK

10. BBC - Religion & Ethics - Female circumcision: UK statistics (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/femalecircumcision/femalecirc_6.shtml)

"No one has yet been prosecuted, although health professionals claim that girls living in Britain have been circumcised in operations overseas organised by ..."
www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/femalecircumcision/femalecirc_6.shtml

11. Erroneous Belief Systems Underlying Female Genital Mutilation in ... (http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/third/hanny3.html)

"At this time, Britain's newly instituted, post-war Socialized Medicine System took effect. ... "Female circumcision protects the health of a woman. ..."
www.nocirc.org/symposia/third/hanny3.html

12. bmj.com Black and Debelle 312 (7027): 377 (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/312/7027/377/b)

"Female genital mutilation in Britain. BMJ 1995;310:1590-2. (17 June.) [Free Full Text]; Female genital mutilation [letters.] BMJ 1995;311:1088-9. ..."
bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/312/7027/377/b

13. Parents fly in African village elders to circumcise their young ... (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article609546.ece)

"23 Oct 2006 ... In Britain, female circumcision — or female genital mutilation (FGM) — is illegal, and carries a maximum sentence of 14 years’ imprisonment. ..."
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article609546.ece

14. UNICEF UK position papers and policies (http://www.unicef.org.uk/unicefuk/policies/policy_detail.asp?policy=12)

"Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is sometimes called female circumcision, ... In the UK, the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985 was replaced with ..."
www.unicef.org.uk/unicefuk/policies/policy_detail.asp?policy=12

15. Health - Child Health - Circumcision - Female Circumcision - Excite UK (http://www.excite.co.uk/directory/Health/Child_Health/Circumcision/Female_Circumcision)

"Erroneous Belief Systems Underlying Female Genital Mutilation in Sub-Saharan Africa and Male Neonatal Circumcision in the United States: a Brief Report ..."
www.excite.co.uk/directory/Health/Child_Health/Circumcision/Female_Circumcision

16. Egypt bans female circumcision after death of 12-year-old girl ... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/30/gender.humanrights)

"30 Jun 2007 ... Egypt has banned all female circumcision after the death this week of a 12-year-old girl undergoing the widely practised procedure."
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/30/gender.humanrights

17. UK doctors given guidelines on female circumcision (http://www.cirp.org/news/reuters08-20-01/)

"a wire service report about new guidelines for doctors in the UK."
www.cirp.org/news/reuters08-20-01/

18. WLUML: News and Views (http://www.wluml.org/english/newsfulltxt.shtml?cmd%5B157%5D=x-157-33540)

"22/01/2004: FGM has been a specific criminal offence in the United Kingdom since the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act was passed in 1985. ..."
www.wluml.org/english/newsfulltxt.shtml?cmd%5B157%5D=x-157-33540

19. FOXNews.com - Female Circumcision Growing Problem in Britain ... (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288911,00.html)

"11 Jul 2007 ... Female Circumcision Growing Problem in Britain, Female genital mutilation is a growing problem in Britain despite efforts to stamp it out."
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288911,00.html

20. Mutilated Girls; U.K.'s Ignored Secret, Female Genital Mutilation ... (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/03/london/main3130654.shtml)

"4 Aug 2007 ... Health officials say the gruesome practice of female genital mutilation is taking place in Britain. Larry Miller wonders if a new police ..."
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/03/london/main3130654.shtml

[eternal_spirit]

A number of Muslim's say female genital mutilation is cultural(and not part of Islam I've just proved in the above post that it's instructed and practiced by Islam from their own words) so why do your Priesthood say it should be done (also why the hell do some Muslims still practice it when they move to other countries including Britain, it's not part of British culture) So no more porkies please.

Circumcision was introduced to the Iranians through Islam and is a rite of obligation amongst Jews. However the practice has a long history in the middle east and was closely related to rituals dedicated to ancient gods and goddesses of fertility. Ancient Mesopotamian had festivals where the actual organ of a young boy was cut off and dedicated to the fertility goddess. The action was later reduced to inducing an incision instead. The blood was offered to the goddess and the occasion was celebrated publicly. In the old kingdom of Egypt myth contended that blood from circumcision to guarantee the fertility realted to the river Nile, and early Egpytian myth contended that blood from circumcision of another god fell down and created the universe. In one document from Egypt a man is stating that he was circumcised with 120 males and 120 females.

The prophet Muhammad himself is quoted as saying " It is an ordinance in men and honourable in women" indicating that the practise is very strongly urged, if not required outright. Many Islamic theologians have insisted that Muhammed and indeed all prophets were born circumcised. It is practised on Both male an female children born to Muslim parents as well of males of any age who join the religion. Most literature regarding circumcision is found in "hadith" these are narratives, sayings and deeds of prophet and his associates recorded by Muslim scholars and biographers. Legal discussions in the hadith literature about it resemble Talmudic discussions on issues of religious importance to Jews. Additionally the language used by the arabic sources evokes the more familiar Hebrew terminology.

Like the Quran, the different reports in the Hadith literature reveal little information concerning the reasons for male circumcision among Muslims. On the other hand reports point to one's status as a Muslim, a practitioner of the faith of Allah. Similarily other traditions teach that certain Islamic practices require the participants to be circumcise Muslims. These can include coversion, pilgramage to Mecca, inheritance, even prayer.

Shiite traditions regard the practice obligatory and tend to lead toward the extreme side on the issue. One account relates that the earth cries out to god in anguish on account of the uncircumcised. Another notes that Muslims should circumcise their sons on the seventh day, if not the earth becomes ritually contaminated for 40 days. Hadith are reported that the Prophet's grandsons Hassan and Husayn were circumcised on the seventh day after their birth and Fatima herself is quoted talking about her son's circumcision on this day.

The most common hadith attributed to the Prophet himself, mentions it in a list of practices known as "fitrah" meaning natural way or instinct. Abu Hurayra a companion of the prophet quotes, "five things are fitrah: circumcision, shaving the body with a razor, trimming the moustache, paring one's nails and plucking the hair from one's armpits" (al-Bukhari, al-Jami' al-sahih) In short these are practices that humans by instint have found to be good for them with or without organized religion. All of these practices under the fitrah indicate the importance of hygiene.

Muslims trace the genesis of the practice to Abraham in a manner similar to Judaism. Abraham is the spiritual ancestor and the physical forefather of the Arabs, through his son Ishmael. Along with Ishmael, Abraham built the Kabah, holiest shrine in Islam, and established many of the rituals practiced there. However, unlike the Bible, few of these narratives rprovide a reason for Abraham's self circumcision. rather, they state merely why he did it.

more here really bizzare
http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/a...rcumcision.php (http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/articles/rituals_of_circumcision.php)

[eternal_spirit]

Important ethical breakthrough
CTV news (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1089820699106_85229899?hub=Canada)
date
B.C. doctors take stand against circumcision
CTV.ca News Staff
B.C.'s College of Physicians and Surgeons has issued guidelines that state circumcision on newborns is medically unnecessary.
Not only that, it hurts.
"The concern is that, most males would agree, that this is very painful," Dr. Peter Seland of the College told CTV Newsnet. "Most babies would voice that."
There are also concerns the procedure "reduces sexual enjoyment later in life," he said.
Those downsides are for a procedure that primarily reduces the risk of some localized infections, he said.
"Beyond that, I think primarily the benefits rest primarily with ethnic beliefs, which these guidelines don't attempt to address at all."
The College acknowledges in its guidelines that circumcision is an important tradition in Jewish and Islamic culture.
Asked about the child's best interests, Seland said, "parents have an obligation to make medical decisions that are in their child's best interests, and they do it all the time."
With circumcision, "the risks and benefits more or less seems to be evenly weighed, so it's a nil issue," he said.
In the policy statement published online, the CPSBC raises a number of questions on the ethical, legal and medical implications of the procedure.
"Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non-therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention," the College writes.
Calling for a "wider societal discussion" of the practice, the manual goes on to call routine infant male circumcision "an unnecessary and irreversible procedure."
"Therefore, many consider it to be 'unwarranted mutilating surgery.' Many adult men are increasingly concerned about whether their parents had the right to give consent for infant male circumcision."
The new guidelines were developed in response to the 2002 death of one-month-old Ryleigh McWillis. He bled to death after a circumcision at Penticton regional hospital.
Though the consensus of many medical agencies -- including both the Canadian and American Paediatric Societies -- comes down against its medical benefits, there are still many doctors who routinely perform the surgery.
Doctors who favour circumcising healthy children say the best time is in the first few weeks after birth.
The CPSBC does make allowances for circumcision on religious grounds or other similarly compelling grounds.
"Therefore, each request for the procedure should be carefully evaluated, and an agreement to perform the procedure should take into consideration the ethical principles of beneficence (duty to benefit); non-maleficence (do no harm); veracity (accurate information); autonomy (consent); and justice (fairness)."
Seland said the guidelines should help B.C. physicians in counselling parents "so they just don't make it on the basis of 'we want him to look like daddy.'"
The college wants parents to understand "the risks and the limited benefit, and to understand there are moral and human rights issues that they need to at least consider in their decision," he said.




http://www.circumstitions.com/News14.html



http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

[eternal_spirit]

Horus (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero) and Set (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad) both want to rule Egypt. They go to the deities to settle this. Set claims to be dominant over Horus, as he had sex with Horus earlier. The gods call his semen forth, but it comes from the river. Horus reveals that he caught Set's semen and threw it in the river. Then he ejaculated on a piece of lettuce which Set ate, proving his dominance. Horus is made the ruler of Egypt. The ancient Egyptians might have been the world's first Slash Fic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlashFic) writers.


Horus's origin story is one of the most kinky/disturbing things there is. Osiris was chopped into little pieces and tossed all over Egypt. Isis found all of the pieces except for his penis, so she made a dildo and had sex with her dead husband.

http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology/egypt/3-obelisk-bb.jpg
EDIT Horus and Osiris Father and son (Osiris reborn is son of the sun God Horus) The Obelisk is symbolic and represents the circumcised penis. (Mohammed was said to have been born circumcised and maybe be considered to be a son of the sun God, if Allah is also allegory for the sun God. It's the same story the trinity - sun - moon - and son (child)
I think Islam comes from previous ancient religions just like the other religions do. Islam - Is - (Isis - moon - feminine) lam (meaning anyone?) And it relates to circumcision (same as Zion)

rituals dedicated to ancient gods and goddesses of fertility. Ancient Mesopotamian had festivals where the actual organ of a young boy was cut off and dedicated to the fertility goddess. The action was later reduced to inducing an incision instead. The blood was offered to the goddess and the occasion was celebrated publicly. In the old kingdom of Egypt myth contended that blood from circumcision to guarantee the fertility realted to the river Nile, and early Egpytian myth contended that blood from circumcision of another god fell down and created the universe. In one document from Egypt a man is stating that he was circumcised with 120 males and 120 females.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=604168&postcount=54

[major seven]

frank buddy, ive already been there, you can go search out my thread, and no i said it a long while ago, the way i practice my religion is probably way different than my parents. and as such any imam, for obviously, my parents like many others, mix tradition with religion and i am currently on my way to change their thoughts too.
but when it comes right down to it, some people just wont agree to the fact even though they agree that the logic supporting it is sounnd, such is the case with my parents, and seems like such is the case with many more, do please tell me what have i said that has no logic behind it, i even have my own understanding on the belief of wether there is a God or not, want it???

Saad old Pal
Sure! Go for it!
As for myself, I'm not a member of any particular religion, although I did grow up as a New England Congregational Protestant which has its roots with the Puritans of Thanksgiving fame. You may have heard, 1620, Plymouth Rock, The Mayflower etc. etc. The same nice folks that also hunted down Indians and Witches, and not too kind on the Quakers either.
Yep! Fine upstanding religious folks them Puritans. They had their own version of shiria laws too. They prefered public humiliation instead of amputation though which was quite practical since so much hard work had to be done just to survive.
I'm guessing that it was a good thing that no boat loads of Muslims landed near those guys back then.
Fortunately, I don't remember my church doing any of that except supporting turkey dinners at Thanksgiving. And they didn't put me in the stocks for not showing up for Sunday service. Praise the Lord for that. That might of pissed me off.
Anyways, I still maintain some sort of belief in a Higher Power, Universal Intelligence, The Great Spirit, The Great Mathematician, The Great Composer, The Great Comedian.
Whatever it is, He/She/It can't be too thrilled with this creation called man with all his weird religious ideas.
Anyway, Do tell it like YOU see it.

Frank

[eternal_spirit]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AwgZvylvJMw

[zarah]

Wafa Sultan is, in my opinion a disgusting, vile and obscene excuse for a woman whose defense of Israel and vilification of Palestinians and their struggle is unforgiveable. She's nothing but a pathetic paid mouthpiece for Jews in defense of their 'homeland' and her views on Islam, Palestine and any other topic she chooses to open her trap about are contemptable.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/wafa_sultan.htm

[quetzalcoatl]

Muhammed had four wives. Before he came along and regulated marriage, for want of a better term - men were only permitted up to four wives, they were only permitted to marry again if a) the wife (ves) agreed and he could support all properly, he was only permitted to 'tap her lightly' if she didn't listen after hed spoken to her twice, all wives were given matriachial qualities and placed as the most important member of the household, they were given inheritance rights and the concept of a dowry was introduced - there were no laws surrounding how women could be treated and they were often beaten to death.

http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrights/womensrights.htm

Thanks for the link.

Sounds good in theory - yet I fail to see it manifest in the practice.. Show me an educated female Muslim - & I'll show ya a Human who fears for her safety..

Q!
Jehova/Yahweh and Allah are not in the same Universe.
If they were, Yahweh would kick Allah's ass into another dimension.
Unfortunately, if Yahweh did that, He would then have to go to that other dimension and set everything there back to normal.

Sounds like Buddah has most of his crap together.

Well, whatever that's supposed to mean? :confused: - I say they are both 'God' impersonators! Whom are really super-technologically advanced Aliens; if not one & the same altogether! So I say WOE unto you 'both' Allah & Jehovah! Go pray unto your 'Gods' tell them my blasphemes - So they may fly down from the heavens & attempt 'smite' me.. I'll be here waiting.. I would say most likely lies & manipulations of man for greed/land & 'holy-rites' as the one true religion has played a major role - in regards to 'contact' with these 'two gods' above.. Yet still they should've known better..

Many British people live in poverty and things are getting worse, some are loosing their homes (and that's the tip of the iceberg) and you Muslims wanna build a Mosque with tax payers money! :(

If you don't like the British culture it's simple go live in an Islamic state, don't try and turn Britian into on!

The group (literally, the preaching party) belongs to the ultra-conservative Deobandi school of thought within Sunni Islam, whose adherents run more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques.

Tablighi Jamaat was founded in 1926, in India, by a Deobandi scholar, Muhammad Ilyas, who wanted to raise Islamic awareness among rural Muslims in south Asia. He promised them that by obeying Islamic laws and following the example of the Prophet Muhammad in their personal lives they would one day “dominate over non-believers” and become “masters of everything on this earth”.
Ishaq Patel, Tablighi Jamaat’s first amir (leader) in Britain, is said to have been on pilgrimage in Mecca when Ilyas’s successor gave him a long-term mission to win “the whole of Britain to Islam”.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah - Jihad has massive aspirations, which will no doubt fail; simply because it originates from a negatively orientated agenda... How can Man-kind fall so easily for such brain-washing? & Judaism is no better! - these two 'thesis/antithesis' are inter-changeable - & it's powerful grip on the Human psyche is the root of many a war/conflict, suffering & death. :(

Ken I'm drifting off-topic & blabbing.. My bad.. :o Jus boggles my mind to see so many people hopelessly 'enchanted/hoodwinked' - by a faith in a 'God' they've never seen/felt or even understand! - To go out to convert, crush/destroy & dominate the other.. :mad:

Talk about the most dangerous concept to Man-Kind - Blind-Faith!

Jehovah is also Yahweh something you may find of interest about the Yahweh Allah connections here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=602511&postcount=7

And I agree with your post. The brainwashed have arrived seems they really believe the lies they post. (they cannot grasp logic and are in denial or are knowingly untruthful)

:eek:

Hmm.. Allah is synonymous with YHWH reversed & inverted (HWHY) eh? Interesting..

Thanks bud. :)

[zarah]

[FONT="Century Gothic"][SIZE="3"]Thanks for the link.

Sounds good in theory - yet I fail to see it manifest in the practice.. Show me an educated female Muslim - & I'll show ya a Human who fears for her safety..



I can show you many...my sister, for example, and I can assure you she's neiter subjugated by a man, nor would be. I would suggest you read From My Sisters' Lips, by Naima Roberts - the story of how an educated woman found Islam and her experiences within it.

[quetzalcoatl]

I meant it as a figure of speech.. & a gross generalization.. (I do this alot) Not said as a trend of a irrefutable formulae that all must adhere to - that wouldn’t be freedom now would it?

I know it's not all that bad.. Yet it's hell of a far from all good too! That goes for most religions! Always with the perversions of 'good advice' or 'heavenly revelations' that manifest as such divisions..

Plain to see it is.


I can show you many...my sister, for example, and I can assure you she's neiter subjugated by a man, nor would be. I would suggest you read From My Sisters' Lips, by Naima Roberts - the story of how an educated woman found Islam and her experiences within it.

Really don't know why you bothered?

I'm dying of boredom jus thinking about reading this..

'My Sisters' Lips'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Sisters-Lips-Naima-Robert/dp/0593054415
Telegraph, May 2005
'An extremely thought-provoking book that challenges
Western preconceptions of Islamic women.'


Slight intrigue - Still feel sure this is not for me..

Also, I'm never a sucker for propaganda hype - from 'both sides'. :cool:

Best of luck to you.. Or if it be Allah's will or something..

[zarah]

Ha ha :p

I read it because I wanted to learn about women's experiences in Islam. I agree that they can be subjugated in many countries, which is contrary to what I had read in the Qu'ran and I wanted to explore that further.

You're right that we should be wary of propaganda, which is why it's important to research from all angles.

[eternal_spirit]

In London, Sheikh Omar Bakri openly declared his intention to transform the West into Dar Al-Islam and to establish Sharia on British soil. "I want to see the black flag of Islam flying over Downing Street," he has said. In fact, his al-Muhajiroun group is dedicated to this goal. Likewise, Abu Hamza, widely quoted as saying there’s nothing wrong with Osama bin Laden or his beliefs, headed up a similar organization called Supporters of Sharia, dedicated to the Islamicization of Britain.


Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn asked exactly that question just before he was assassinated last year on the eve of Holland’s national elections.
Fortuyn, however, was able to vocalize what his Dutch brethren are unwilling to accept, that most Muslims commonly believe that the only legitimate basis for a society—and that would apply to Dutch society as well as anywhere—is the Sharia, the Islamic law that the Taliban was so strictly enforcing.

Spencer quotes an imam in Holland: "The Sharia does not have to adopt to the modern world because these are divine laws. People have to bend to the Sharia." Defense of the Sharia includes, among other things, the defense of stoning—not only for the sins of Sodom, but also for adultery, a staple of modern Dutch life. Moreover, Muslim cultural features such as arranged marriages, revenge killings, and female circumcision (including sewing up the woman’s vagina from top to bottom) are diametrically opposed to Western values. Fortuyn’s fatal mistake was to warn Holland against the Trojan horse of intolerance it is inviting into its society in the name of tolerance and multiculturalism.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, elected to the Dutch parliament in January, has criticized Islam precisely on this point. Hirsi Ali, a young Somali immigrant who considers herself an "ex-Muslim," charges that it is Islam at its core (not simply so-called "radical Islam") that is oppressive to women. She refers both to verses in the Qur’an as well as modern-day Muslim practices. For example, Sura 4:34 of the Qur’an says women should obey the male members of their families—even if, say, they are forbidden to leave their homes—and if they do not obey then the husband may beat his wife: "As for those [women] from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them." According to Hirsi Ali, there are millions of Muslim men who carry out that simple verse, beating and oppressing their women in the name of Islam. For daring to voice such a scandalous testimony, the young Somali was forced to flee her country under threat of death, becoming a latter-day Salman Rushdie.

Muslim clerics like Bakri and Hamza (both immigrant British citizens, by the way), have not exactly been shy about their modus operandi: to exploit the Western system which guarantees them free speech, well-being, and respect for religious rights in order to ultimately impose their intolerant (and in many cases barbaric) laws on that same Western society.
This clever brand of jihad confirms Bardot’s contention that "Not only does [Islam] fail to give way to our laws and customs. Quite the contrary, as time goes by it tries to impose its own law on us."
Thus Spencer devotes a good deal of his book to an in-depth look at the Islamic concept of jihad as it is preached today in mosques around the world. He carefully examines traditional Islamic teachings to reveal the advocacy of violence justified by religion. In his analysis, jihad is a violent doctrine of theology, a tradition, and a legal system within Islam. He answers critics who hold that jihad is not holy war by saying that they are unwilling to face uncomfortable facts of Islamic history and theology. For example, Muhammad himself taught—and he was very clear about this—that jihad is about making war (not peace), about fighting unbelievers in order to establish the supremacy and hegemony of the Islamic political and social system, not just the religion.


more

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1126378/posts

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42821

woman stoned to death they said for adultry but she was raped!

[eternal_spirit]

http://forum.japantoday.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=957557&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

[lizzy]

Shariah Law Islamic laws .....it has no place in the UK.......( but neither does zionist fascists laws that are here and coming fast now)

....P-R-S..........divide and rule :rolleyes:..

[jahzel]

Who cares. Fuck religion.

[lizzy]

Who cares. Fuck religion.

;), Agreed....except the elite pyschopaths will use it as a tool to generate unrest and repression....

[eternal_spirit]

Take note of the lies and out right contradictions from a Muslim. And the silly waste of space and pathetic ramblings and praises of a God who never existed and a Prophet Muhammed who is Islam's role model.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543392

Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective

Question
Respected scholars, As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh. What does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really order to kill females in the name of honor?


Wa`alykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we do really appreciate your question, which shows how far you are interested in getting yourself well-acquainted with the sound teachings of Islam. May Allah bless your efforts in pursuit of knowledge and may He keep us all firm in the straight path!

Sister, it’s a well-known fact that Islam maintains the protection of life and does not sanction any violation against it. In the Glorious Qur’an, Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93)

`Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

[eternal_spirit]

honour killings in islam - Google Search

1. Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective - IslamonLine.net - Ask ... (http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=9882)

"What does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really ..."
www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=9882

2. Honor Killings (http://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/Pages/honorkillings.html)

"Special Focus: Islam. Honor Killings, Illicit Sex, and Islamic Law. Intimate violence against women is a worldwide crisis. From “crimes of passion” to ..."
www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/Pages/honorkillings.html

3. Islam Watch - "“Honor Killing” is Absolutely Islamic" by Syed ... (http://islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm)

"Honour killings have nothing to do with Islam, its just 'traditions' or ways .... THERES NOTHING SUCH AS HONOR KILLING IN ISLAM...have some respect to the ..."
islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm

4. Thousands of Women Killed for Family "Honor" (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html)

""In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the ..."
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

5. Qualities of an Exemplary Leader (http://www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/notes/islam_and_honor_killings/)

"Islam and Honor Killings. By Imam Zaid on 12 July 2007. One of the gravest charges levied against Islam, in terms of its alleged antipathy towards women, ..."
www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/notes/islam_and_honor_killings/

6. Islam and Women's Rights (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/islamrights.htm)

"Explaining Islam's view of women and how they are treated with the support of ... Also they declared that honour killing is an Islamic duty and they justify ..."
www.atheistfoundation.org.au/islamrights.htm

7. Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing)

"Emery also said 'Islam is inaccurately cited as justification for these crimes', whilst at the same time saying of honour killings in Palestine "Most, ..."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

8. Honor/Honour Killing (Honour Crimes) (http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/)

"21/02/04 No Honour In Honour Killings - Hindustan Times · 01/10/03 British Muslims Condemn Honor Killings - Islam Online ..."
www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/

9. BBC NEWS | England | London | UK Muslims condemn honour killings (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3150142.stm)

"There is no such thing as honour killing in Islam let alone killing your own daughter. This person should be put behind bars for rest of his life. ..."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3150142.stm

10. Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs: does Islam allow honor killings? (http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/003883.php)

"To make it clear, honor killings are FORBIDDEN by Islam. Honor killing is murder and must be punished accordingly. Honor killing was one of many abuses of ..."
www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/003883.php

11. Honor killings and Islam - Broadsheet - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/01/26/vlog/)

"26 Jan 2008 ... Are Western Muslims doing enough to criticize the horrific practice?"
www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/01/26/vlog/

12. Dhimmi Watch: Does Islam Justify Honor Killings? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/022891.php)

"29 Sep 2008 ... It [the honor killing of Sandela] has nothing to do with Islam. This is a tribal , medieval mentality that is seen in tribes in Pakistan and ..."
www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/022891.php

13. YouTube - Islam: Honor Killings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq9WaDBcCYQ)

"Honor Killings in Islam. If you want to see the whole video of the first honor killing in this video go to http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=598Warning: ..."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq9WaDBcCYQ

14. ISIS | Center for Inquiry (http://www.secularislam.org/)

"... eliminate practices, such as female circumcision, honor killing, ... We demand the release of Islam from its captivity to the totalitarian ambitions of ..."
www.secularislam.org/

15. Reputation Is Everything: Honor Killings Among the Palestinians (http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/may/clpub.asp)

"Several thousand women a year are victims of honor killings. ... HONOR KILLINGS AND ISLAM The Qur'an has been inaccurately used to sanction honor killings ..."
www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/may/clpub.asp

16. ‘Honor killing’ not Islam’s fault | The God Blog | Jewish Journal (http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/honor_killing_not_islams_fault/)

"I agree that such familial violence is not endemic to Islam. There was, however, a disturbing “honor killing” in Canada last month that ..."
www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/honor_killing_not_islams_fault/

17. Honor Killings in Islam - When you have nothing else in your life ... (http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2006/04/honor_killings_when_you_have_n.html)

"Find other bloggers discussing these subjects: certain, happy family, higher education, honor killing, images, islam, kurdistan, photo, prejudice, rape, ..."
plancksconstant.org/blog1/2006/04/honor_killings_when_you_have_n.html

18. Chgo Trib's 'Honor Killing' Report Omits Islam Connection ... (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/07/08/chgo-tribs-honor-killing-report-omits-islam-connection)

"8 Jul 2008 ... As for sexual infidelity being a reason for honor killings, remember Jesus' instruction regarding the adultress. In Islam, SHE is the guilty ..."
newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/07/08/chgo-tribs-honor-killing-report-omits-islam-connection

19. Western Resistance: Pakistan: Muslim Honor Killings Confronted? (http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002234.html)

"28 May 2006 ... The blame is often laid at the door of "tribal customs" and people try to avoid the taint of Islam in honour killings. ..."
www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002234.html

20. Honor Killing in Islam - Topix (http://www.topix.com/religion/islam/2008/09/honor-killing-in-islam)

"There is no link between honor killings and Islam or the Quran. Quotes from some non-Muslim like Jay Smith just strengthens the illogical reaction. ..."
www.topix.com/religion/islam/2008/09/honor-killing-in-islam

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/images/veil.gif In Muslim societies religion governs all aspects of life and has priority over secular laws and local customs, therefore, the excuse that tradition alone is responsible for women's oppression is untenable. Unless Muslim apologists are prepared to back their claims by a campaign to reform their religion and improve the situation of women, their assertions that Islam is blameless in oppressing women, are null and void.

[itsallundercontrol]

Shouldnt shariah law just be forced on people in islamic countries?
As far as i can tell the big three that being islam judaism and christianity all share the same things in common fascist maniacs at the extreme end con men making people feel guilt and fearing an eternal hell if they dont believe in that paticular version of the great lie mind control and a handy built in end time prophecy to wipe everyone out if things get out of hand
Dont get me wrong sufism kabbalah and christian mysticism are deep and beautiful traditions that i wouldnt dream of rubbishing out of hand but this mainstream religious crap man....wake up your being lied to
Shariah law will never be relevant to the mainstream uk population even if your zealous enough to think it will most muslims in this country wouldnt have the freedoms they enjoy under shariah law and are just as hypocritical as most christians/jews

[eternal_spirit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers. In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_ambulance_ap150.jpg 15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured


According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

[eternal_spirit]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gs24KykIGz0&feature=related

[eternal_spirit]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=03UGqHIqPVk&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k-R2ZQkuxo0&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YzvQkzMHJew&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOrAJef3xw&feature=related

[eternal_spirit]

blah

[adbasque]

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/images/veil.gif In Muslim societies religion governs all aspects of life and has priority over secular laws and local customs, therefore, the excuse that tradition alone is responsible for women's oppression is untenable. Unless Muslim apologists are prepared to back their claims by a campaign to reform their religion and improve the situation of women, their assertions that Islam is blameless in oppressing women, are null and void.

Women are not oppressed by Islam, women are oppressed by regional culture and old traditions, before Islam.
You guys talk as if in the west women are free, when di women in the west first had the right to vote, to go to university, to run their business?
go on answer me this.
Let me tell you something, as I always said if you people really care to unveil the truth it's not that difficult, but no you are quite happy and you take pleasure in bashing Islam.

You talk about not being brainwashed the media, the press, and the same people who are enslaving you, that kept pomping all these false information into your heads, you grew up hating something without a thorough research.

Women in Islam, let me give you a small example, Aisha was the first woman to run her own business and to have men working for her, and she was not the only woman, and that was 1500 years ago.

Women went to study and be successful, but of course people like you are not interested in the truth.

All you see is exactly what was put in front of you, by those people who have been enslaving you.

How many women came out and did clearly state we are NOT oppressed we want to wear the Hidjab, read my lips, it is their own choice, no one is forcing them.
Yes there are some families who oppress their women, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam, there are old traditions and customs they kept and which existed long before Islam came to town.

I said it time and time again, but it is obvious now, that you are NOT interested in the truth.
people would go on google and paste an article written by anyone, without checking it out, or watch a documntary on TV about Islam and they think they know what Islam is.

You'll never learn the truth, I have to laugh now, I see the same arguments on and on, Muslim women always been portrayed in a black Jilbab the face covered, that is Islam.

The truth is, you don't give a S** if women are oppressed or not, it's just something to tarnish Islam.

Women are oppressed in many parts of the world, unfortunately is to do with stupid traditions, Hindus women are oppressed is this to do with Islam?
Skikh women are oppressed is it to do with Islam?
African women are oppressed is it to do with Islam?
Japanese women were and still are oppressed is it Islam?
European women are oppressed is it Islam?

No you don't see all of these things you only see Muslim women, anyway I don't why I bother, because it is clear now that you people enjoy this kind of propaganda.

If you really care to find out the truth about Islam you wouldn't be here jumping at every occasion you get.

[lostwonderer]

Correct me if i'm wrong but in the koran does it not say women should be covered fully, or something along those lines?

[adbasque]

Correct me if i'm wrong but in the koran does it not say women should be covered fully, or something along those lines?

Yes it does, require women to cover their hair, to dress correctly without exposing their bodies, so does Christianity, and Judaism.

And it also requires man to dress in a certain way no only women :)

[adbasque]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers. In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_ambulance_ap150.jpg 15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured


According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

What I don't understand with you, you keep on bringing saudi arabia, and many other countries.

read my lips once and for all, this hardly a proof of anything, A Saudi is hardly a reference to Islam or any human being, especially when you talk about the governments.

The saudi royal family half of them are not Muslims
Muslims don't gamble, they do
Muslims are not homosexuals, they are
Muslims don't kill innocent people, they do
Muslims don't torture people, they do
Muslims are certainly not paedophiles, they are very much so

Why do you keep refering to them as a symbol of Islam???
what are you trying to do I have been following your posts, that's all you do, your mission is to attack Islam anyway you can.

The Saudi family are the most corrupt people on the face of the earth after the rothschild and the rest of the Elite.
Nobody cares about them, they are paedophiles, they are friends with Bush and the British Royal family.

Who do you think put them there as royalties?
Britain put them there for one purpose, I'll let you guess the rest.

Don't believe me go and read some history and find out about your Saudis.

Saudis are nothing, ask any Muslim he'll tell you the exact same thing
So stop your ridiculous propaganda, there 10000 other subjects here, why do you always pick on Islam what is your real Beef?

Did they pay you to go on forums and bash Islam?? is this your mission?

This Board was created for a reason, so people can fight the same enemy but obviously your only enemy is Islam, you don't give a s*** about other things.
All you talk about is Islam this Islam that, Muslims this Muslims that, and none of it is even close to the truth, it's false information you are spreading, you are not doing any research whatsoever.

you google and when you do find something to chew you paste it here on these forums.

You real enemies have no religion, unless of course you are one of them, which I start to suspect now.
you probably are one of the Elite, trying to create diversions on this forum, so people forget why they were here in the first place.

And start arguing about Islam this and Islam that.

I repeat what I said above, because I start to believe you are selectively blind.

Saudis
Any so called "Muslim" government, there's no such thing as a Muslim government, it doesn't exist it cessed existing since 1924.

You can breath now, don't worry, the only thing left is people as Muslims, because you friends have corrupted every government on this planet, and the governments in a "Muslim" countries are no exception.

Almost everyone of your posts or threads are about Islam or Muslims.

Would you be happy if we were all killed? and no muslims left in this world? who would be next?
The short people, dark haired people, or maybe green eyed, no not those, brown eyed people, hang on, maybe not, disabled people, I am sure you have a list of people who should live or die.

You are not on this forum for the same reasons as many of us, you only goal is to disrupt and spread your obvious hatred to the Muslims.

Listen whether you like it or not, GOD does exist!

I don't need super intelligent people like you to tell me what I should or should not believe.

This is pure slander and hatred, this is not debating Islam or whatever, you have a drive, you hate Muslims you hate Islam, you think they are subhumans, it's obvious.

I am sure you will try and deny it, but it doesn't take a rocket science to work out your true intentions.

I am sick of people like this, you push people to hate you and despise you, you provoke hatred, and then you turn the blame on the people when they get angry, you are exactly like some people, whatever goes wrong

They blame the entire Jewish community for what your masters are doing.
Because people are F** happy to look at the obvious and believe it's the truth, and this must the reality.

Too blind to read between the lines, or to look at the gray area

**************************************************

[scooby85]

Muslim group behind ‘mega-mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain


A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.
The organisation, which has millions of followers worldwide, insists that it is a peaceful, apolitical revivalist movement that promotes Islamic consciousness among individual Muslims. However, intelligence agencies have cautioned that the group’s ability to fire young men with a zeal for Islam acts as a staging post, for some, along a path that leads to jihadist terrorism.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2419524.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2419524.ece)

more propaganda and lies, why do u do it ffs its like u lie in every post about islam...

mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain - it holds 12000 and its going to convert the whole of britain?? :eek: use ur common sense u thick twat.
its a 12000 capacity mosque for people to go and pray..just like the other mosques people go to pray in


A £100 million of tax payers money to fund religious beliefs that I don't believe in. Why not spend the money on real stuff?

where the fook does it say tax payers are footing the bill?? why are u trying to stir shit?

[scooby85]

Yes it does, require women to cover their hair, to dress correctly without exposing their bodies, so does Christianity, and Judaism.

And it also requires man to dress in a certain way no only women :)

like the quran says: ''(This was Our) way with the prophets We sent before thee (O Muhammad): thou wilt find no change in Our way'' (17:77)

[eternal_spirit]

Tut tut denying reality again boys.

[adbasque]

like the quran says: ''(This was Our) way with the prophets We sent before thee (O Muhammad): thou wilt find no change in Our way'' (17:77)

Lol I came to understand one thing here this individual is either sick, Zionist, or an absolute ignorant.

He keeps on and on no matter what evidence you put in front of him, he talks about the tax payers money that proves he is a complete ignorant who's goal is to stir S*** as you described it.

No tax payer's money, Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money!!

maybe he'll read it this time. not even a single penny of the tax payer's money.!

The tax payer's money goes to your masters, as I said before this guy is here to try and divert people's focus from the real issues to ISLAM and forget the NWO, the bankers (his masters) that is his mission.

On many posts I explained to him, but he doesn't want the truth never did and he never will.

The best option with people like these is to completely ignore them, no matter what you put under their noses they don't read it they look the other way and keep coming back with the same ridiculous arguments.

That proves he has no knowledge whatsoever, hahaha he thinks the government will be generous and give the Muslims any money.

He is completely detached from the reality, it's like a mad bull seeing red and charging with his head down.

Anyway I have personally wasted enough time with this person, I am sick of going around the circle, it's obvious now, what he is after.
I won't say no more, I don't mind debating when a person is genuinly seeking the truth but when somebody has already made up his mind, it's a waste of time.
My time is very precious, I don't like wasting it, I'd rather spend it for something worthwhile, like fighting the tyranny that we are all under, fighting the NWO, fighting the true criminals (like his masters the bankers) and so on.

instead of wasting it with him.

One last thing, yes many more mosques will be built so start feeling sick from now, and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Because they build them with their money, but the problem is where ever you turn you see at least one,
Are you from the BNP? I am sure you are a member, and if you're not my advice is join them.

I am sure you already are.

[scooby85]

Tut tut denying reality again boys.

so why is it u ALWAYS ignore/dodge the reply i give to ur posts? is it because u no ur a liar and iv caught u out for the 20th time? give it up saddo, ur such a loser... BOTH points u made were far from the truth and iv explained why..

And adbasque ur spot on dude this guys defo a disinfo agent and iv mentioned that many times before.. can admin please take a closer look at him.

[islamvslizards]

guys if you want to talk about islam, dont you think you should talk to a muslim?

*cough* thats me ;) *cough*

[adbasque]

so why is it u ALWAYS ignore/dodge the reply i give to ur posts? is it because u no ur a liar and iv caught u out for the 20th time? give it up saddo, ur such a loser... BOTH points u made were far from the truth and iv explained why..

And adbasque ur spot on dude this guys defo a disinfo agent and iv mentioned that many times before.. can admin please take a closer look at him.

As I said before I really don't mind debating when I know that somebody is genuinly seeking the truth or trying to find out more about Islam.

But when I detect a devious mind like this guy, I simply ignore him, I have been following his posts "lies" for a while, and all he does is slander.

So the best thing now is to let him spill his venom, it doesn't affect me.

Anyway I am here for other reasons more urgent, we will get people like these trying to disrupt this forums, they know what kind of members are on forums like these.

I promise you this guy works for either the BNP or a very low level of the Elite.

His C*** is the same as the BNP, he talks without a shred of evidence and spreads lies.

[eternal_spirit]

quote: adbasque
I promise you this guy works for either the BNP or a very low level of the Elite.

His C*** is the same as the BNP, he talks without a shred of evidence and spreads lies. Haha the paranoid ramblings/rants and thoughts of a fully paid up brainwashed convert of Islam. Are you Nation of Islam?

You willingly genitally mutilated your self as part of your initiation to your death cult religion. Will you allow the same done to your children?:(

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby85
so why is it u ALWAYS ignore/dodge the reply i give to ur posts? is it because u no ur a liar and iv caught u out for the 20th time? give it up saddo, ur such a loser... BOTH points u made were far from the truth and iv explained why..
Eh? what have I avoided? Me a liar lmao, that's you scoobs. Allah and Mohammed are losers like those who follow their sick and evil teachings are losers.




And adbasque ur spot on dude this guys defo a disinfo agent and iv mentioned that many times before.. can admin please take a closer look at him.Your Muslim buddy has been proved a liar many times and has just told some more porkies. Been eating too much pig eh?

[eternal_spirit]

[quote]Lol I came to understand one thing here this individual is either sick, Zionist, or an absolute ignorant.Damn now I'm a Jew again LOL!

He keeps on and on no matter what evidence you put in front of him, he talks about the tax payers money that proves he is a complete ignorant who's goal is to stir S*** as you described it.

No tax payer's money, Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money Not tax payer's money!!What proof where:confused:

maybe he'll read it this time. not even a single penny of the tax payer's money.!Read what where:confused:

The tax payer's money goes to your masters, as I said before this guy is here to try and divert people's focus from the real issues to ISLAM and forget the NWO, the bankers (his masters) that is his mission.Muslim immigrants who have 3 wives and 25 children that's where too much of it goes, while whitey stays on the waiting list.

Would you let Buddhists build a Temple near Mecca, how about a nice Catholic Church? Nope, you Muslim's wouldn't allow that. So, why the hell should you be allowed to build Mosques at the expense of Tax payers?

On many posts I explained to him, but he doesn't want the truth never did and he never will.

The best option with people like these is to completely ignore them, no matter what you put under their noses they don't read it they look the other way and keep coming back with the same ridiculous arguments.

That proves he has no knowledge whatsoever, hahaha he thinks the government will be generous and give the Muslims any money.In many posts I've used the words and texts of your Muslim brothers (holy men Imans included)
He is completely detached from the reality, it's like a mad bull seeing red and charging with his head down.Speaking about yourself again, anyone reading the threads will know this. :)

[aitch]

Eternal Spirit ..... I'm guessing you were dumped by a Muslim girlfriend !! ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Eternal Spirit ..... I'm guessing you were dumped by a Muslim girlfriend !! ;)
:D

Nah white boy not good enough for their daughters. :( So we would never have got started let alone finished.

quote:adbasque
On many posts I explained to him, but he doesn't want the truth never did and he never will.


I do want truth, I'm concered about Islamic fundamentalists and what Islam teaches and generally believes about none Muslims. It's a cause for concern.

[aitch]

:D

Nah white boy not good enough for their daughters. :( Not really ..... I've know plenty of hot Muslim girls :D ..... they love us fair skinned honkeys ;) ..... just don't tell their parents dude !! :p

Anyway, it's good that you've finally admitted why you've got a bug up your arse about them ..... why not have a shower and shave, put on some cool clothes and check out some Nightclubs where lots of Uni Students go ..... you'll pull a foxy Muslim chick no problem !!

Unless you're Ugly !!

I do want truth, I'm concered about Islamic fundamentalists and what Islam teaches and generally believes about none Muslims. It's a cause for concern.Yes it is ..... but so is fundamentalist Christianity or Judaism or anything that is extremist .....

Personally I'm more worried about IRA terrorists than Islamic ones ..... they are far more organised and competent ..... and now that the Irish Economy is going down the pan, they may well start recruiting again :eek:

[octopusrex]

I fear the Islamic Mind-Control is far too absolute.. Technically Mohammad was a pedo.. & had multiple slaves.. I mean 'wives'.. never-mind the extremist element - jus looking @ the core beliefs & suppression of women is sickening enough.. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Plumed_Serpent/sick.gif His first impression WAS right - IT IS A DEMON! :mad:

Jehovah.. *cough* I mean 'Allah' does get around eh?

Too bad the Catholic Church errased all knowledge of Mayan and Aztec Law, huh?:o

[oiram]

cutting off hands is what you call evil? let me tell you the whole rule, if you are caught stealing, your left hand will be cut down but if you are caught stealing in a time of draught, then you are let off once, first your left hand is cut then next time your right hand is also cut. please remember these rules were applied where every poor guy was sought after for the giving of zakat, such that even a poor guy never sleeps hungry. and if in such conditions one still tries to steal, the punishment is just seeing its far off effects, for once a punishment is given to a certain individual, it really makes an example and go see the history books as to how many theives there were left as a result.

I wished they had the cutting off hands rule for stealing in Indonesia.
90% of the entire country would run around with no hands. I think they know this that's why they did not included in there system.

Actually this would be a perfect rule for all corrupter's world wide. This way they would be easier to spot.

Well there are many wrongs on all sides but yes people in general have to start to use there logical brains to evaluate things.
There is no good stealing or bad stealing; there is no good murdering or bad murdering.
Once people understand this one; we would have made 70 % progress.

They got to get the leaders of all religions by the balls.
The general Population are mostly uneducated dumb followers.
Why are they dumb because the Government system keeps them premeditated dumb to have easy to guide slaves & sheep.

I also don't understand why Muslim man here in Indonesia are getting married to one woman & then the rest of there lives trying to screw Virgin Women all over the place. Not sure if this is because there bananas are to small or because it's there Religious believe.
For me it's sick & amoral never mind there Religion.
If they really would be all this Religious they would not get drunk & steal & lie 11 month of the year. Yes one months is Ramadan & they should be good boys for one month then the 11 month stealing & lying circle continues.

It's the individual which is screwed up & Religion is only one of many tools for them to excuse there wrong doing toward other humans. "Reality"

Reality is all just Primitive Religious indoctrination & has nothing to do with being a logical moral Human.
Religion is all about money, control & power over others to have dumb cheep slaves.

People which have faith & morals don't need any Religion. IMO!

I live 18 years here with this sheep what I hate the most is they lie & steal like there is nothing els to do in this world but the lying & stealing western world is not much better. Even worst because they did receive a basic education like me & really they have no excuse at all.

It's not about religion it's proper education logic and morals people need.

Fight the source of the problem not the result! That is the real solution for all.
Because we are all the same only our brains & logic got manipulated in a different way & don't we all know who & what is responsible for this?

Just look at the guy in Germany which murdered his sister ... so is he wrong yes of cause and so are the once which teached him this shit to murder his own sister! They should all go to jail in my view. Idiots, manipulation & mind control brainwashing. Why does the teacher has not to face the court? Please tell me logicly.

Why a soldier can murder for his Boss & never face the Court & law ..... because it's justified?
Sorry not in my book & also not in the book of the innocent dead. Who is wrong it's clear they are all wrong & should all face the music.

If we all like to be awoken then we have to use our natural Human logic that's the solution. Never mind what you're faith or believe is you are personally following.

Two wrongs will never make one right!

Don't you agree!

[adbasque]

LOL BNP club

You will get over it Eternally Lol
Did she tell you, you stink?

I can understand your rage don't worry ;)

All that hatred must have reason behind it Lol

[oiram]

All that hatred must have reason behind it LolAbsolutely correct & this source reason is the one we all have to eliminate.

There is not one baby born into this world which has hate from birth!

Hate gets created by others & the system we all forcefully have to live in; depending on the place you have been born into.

Don't know why people can not see & understand this reality & Truth.

Again mind control indoctrination & Government run school system & Religious Leaders.

Always the same source problem for the last 4000 years.

And if the Jewish community is one more indoctrinated screwed up group then they should face the music too & people have to confront them face to face & explain to them what the real problem is of there conditioning.

[mephibosheth]

Not really ..... I've know plenty of hot Muslim girls :D ..... they love us fair skinned honkeys ;) ..... just don't tell their parents dude !! :p

Anyway, it's good that you've finally admitted why you've got a bug up your arse about them ..... why not have a shower and shave, put on some cool clothes and check out some Nightclubs where lots of Uni Students go ..... you'll pull a foxy Muslim chick no problem !!


If I was a Muslim, I'd fine these comments absolutely abhorrent and disgusting. Such 'women' who engage in these practices are evidently not Muslims, whatever the religion of their parents might be.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL BNP club

You will get over it Eternally Lol
Did she tell you, you stink?

I can understand your rage don't worry ;)

All that hatred must have reason behind it Lol

:D I was joking there is no she.
As long as you Muslims don't want us all dead or converted then we'll get a long fine. Like most places where none Muslims and Muslims live together peacefully.

[oiram]

Not really ..... I've know plenty of hot Muslim girls :D ..... they love us fair skinned honkeys ;) ..... just don't tell their parents dude !! :p
Yep!
Once you been there you usually never go back; one quality western women lost long time ago.
They even love you more if you show them respect & if you have a big wallet they even call you Honey! http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/honeymoney.gif

Then you give her a little bunny & there goes all your money!

So if you can do without the Honey then you can keep all your money.

Even the parents will welcome you with open arms if you share you're wallet with them no matter you're Faith!
Actually a very Jewish characteristic!
Are these two groups related to each other? "I say yes 100%" that's why I don't understand why they kill each other must be jealousy.

Trust me 18 years experience in Muslim land ..... now I gave it up because it's all just about money!

Fucking Bankers Globalization screws everything up!

But one thing is for sure there will be no more western woman living with me for the rest of my life I prefer a nice feminine Asian woman any time & you know what they even still know how to cook you a nice perfect romantic meal!

Trust me!

Note: Be warned once you been there you can not go back!
Don't try this if you are married already .... leave this nice women for the single man.

Love it ..... So easy to kill a thread talking about the nice things in life!;)

[adbasque]

[quote=adbasque;827365]Damn now I'm a Jew again LOL!


You see, when I say you talk from you backside, I was not wrong

I said Zionist, and you said now I am Jew, didn't I tell you that you don't have a clue what you're talking about??

Zionist for you means a Jew? LOL poor you, I really pity you

You just confirmed that you are uneducated. FULL STOP loll

Enjoy yourself, life's too damn short for this :)

[scooby85]

Haha the paranoid ramblings/rants and thoughts of a fully paid up brainwashed convert of Islam. Are you Nation of Islam?

You willingly genitally mutilated your self as part of your initiation to your death cult religion. Will you allow the same done to your children?:(

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby85
Eh? what have I avoided? Me a liar lmao, that's you scoobs. Allah and Mohammed are losers like those who follow their sick and evil teachings are losers.




Your Muslim buddy has been proved a liar many times and has just told some more porkies. Been eating too much pig eh?






u just cant stop lieing can u its just not funny anymore...

You willingly genitally mutilated your self as part of your initiation to your death cult religion. Will you allow the same done to your children?:(

Show me once sentence in the quran that makes this obligatory? u cant. its tradition not religion..i doubt u no the difference between them :rolleyes:

Eh? what have I avoided? Me a liar lmao, that's you scoobs. Allah and Mohammed are losers like those who follow their sick and evil teachings are losers

pathetic comments like this proves ur a di*k and what havnt u avoided? erm everything. u didnt explain how a mosque with a capacity 1200 could try to convert the whole of britain thats 60m plus people. u didnt explain where it said that tax payers were funding the mosque? cos they didnt u lied. look ur a deluded wan*er if im honest and im not guna waste my time on a dis info agent like u..

Your Muslim buddy has been proved a liar many times and has just told some more porkies. Been eating too much pig eh?

i can garantee u that u will not find a single post where i have i lied, u may find mistakes but no lies, go thru my posts and back up ur claim to prove u aint a liar

[scooby85]

Damn now I'm a Jew again LOL![/QUOTE]
:eek::eek: are u for real?? u blind as well? he wrote ZIONIST

Muslim immigrants who have 3 wives and 25 children that's where too much of it goes, while whitey stays on the waiting list. again vile propanganda, how many muslims do u no that have 3 wives and 25 kids? none. im a muslim and i dont even no anyone with two wives let alone 3.

Would you let Buddhists build a Temple near Mecca, how about a nice Catholic Church? Nope, you Muslim's wouldn't allow that. So, why the hell should you be allowed to build Mosques at the expense of Tax payers?

no thats because mecca is a holy city of islam, so how can any other false deity/idol worship take place in it?? I can ask u the same thing, would judaism and christianity allow a hindu idol worshipping shrine anywhere near their holy place in jerusalem? the answer is no but i dont see u ranting on about the those two religions

FFS ITS NOT USING TAXPAYERS MONEY FOR THE 50TH TIME... its evident ur trying to spread hatred, some people arnt stupid, im positive ur sum kind of paid disinfo agent, out of ur 12000 posts on d.i forum, majority of them seem to be anti islam, somethings very odd...

[scooby85]

:D


I do want truth, I'm concered about Islamic fundamentalists and what Islam teaches and generally believes about none Muslims. It's a cause for concern.

The Holy Qur'an > Surah Al-i-'Imran> Verse 64
Say: "O People of the Book! (christians/jews) come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah/god; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)."

thats not so bad is it? its better than all that blood and gory stuff ay? thats becasue when allah does talk about violence, wage wars etc its usually talking about the evil people in the world who make it their duty to bring down islam i.e the illuminati and the people who agree with their ideas/morals.and if u think thats bad then well its obvious ur on their side

and note all allah its asking of jews and christian is to at least believe in the one god even if u dont believe in all the prophets and if u dont, also note, that allah doesnt mention anything about killing or slaughtering him.:rolleyes:

[adbasque]

:D
I do want truth, I'm concered about Islamic fundamentalists and what Islam teaches and generally believes about none Muslims. It's a cause for concern.

Ok let's say you want the truth,ok? first of all do you know what the word fundamentalist means?
Meaning following the fundamental teachings of Islam, and if you glanced at the Quoran and took the time to read what's init as opposed to listening what "Others" are telling you, don't you think it's a good start? ;)

One other thing: all of these names you hear are made up by the Elite (Zionists)

Islamist, extremists, ALqaeda = meaning the base, or database yes, there's no such thing in Islam

There's "Muslim" and nothing else
Salafi in arabic means traditional something that is original
so all of these new terms that they are using to describe a Muslim are made up and recently


For a mutulation that you're talking about, there are tribes in Africa that aren't even Muslim, and guess what? they do mutulate their daughters.

If I said to you "Cultural" what does that mean to you? it means exactly what it says. cultural NOT religious.

Islam does not teach violence at all, it teaches to defend yourself in case you are attacked, in case your land is attacked, in case your family is attacked, in case you see the injustice, i.e an orphan

deprived of his/her rights, in case a weak is deprived of his/her rights, to protect your women, to look after your "Neighbour". (what I mean women, is wife, sister, mother, cousin etc..) not 15 wives ;)

Let me give you a little true story, Mohamed saws, had a neighbour who was a Jew, every morning he comes out of his house he finds rubbish on his front door, he'll pick it up and put it back in the garbage can or bin etc..

one day he woke up and found no rubbish in front of his house, he asked people where is my neighbour? they said oh he is sick, he is in bed.

He went knocked on his door and went in to see him, to see how he was and he kept visiting him regularly to see if he needed anything.

Do you think this is a bad thing? and you can ask any Muslim he'll tell you that the Prophet Mohammed saws, always warned Muslims to look after their Neighbours, it doesn't matter whether they are Jews, Christians, Blacks, white, red necks, green with purple hair.

Is this a bad teaching to you? is this a teaching of violence? is this a religion of hatred?

No you guys listen to those who make up stories false information, they pick the first couple of words of a whole story and use those two words to make Islam look bad.

They show you old traditions of tribes and countries that were there way before Islam.

Islam had battled these kind of babarism,

Circumcision, Abraham was the very first to circumcise himself, The Jews Circumcise, The Christians do as well, it's not just The Muslims, if you have a problem with this take it on all 3 religions. :)

Women should NOT be touched in genitals at all, there are some crazy people somewhere in the sub sahara and not many thank god who were mutulating their daughters and that is "AGAINST the teachings of Islam.

Anything else you would like to know before starting again this raid of slander?

Day in day out Islam and Muslims are bombarded, did you for one minute stop and think, why are they doing this?

Maybe they are doing it to put us against each other, did that ever occur to you?

You Jews "MUST" hate Muslims, you Muslims MUST hate Jews, you Christians MUST hate Muslims, because they are a threat to you existence.

For 700 years Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived side by side helping one another, why did they live for 700 years without any incident? they tolerated each other and their differences.


If you believe the Muslims are violent and barbaric, that means you believe the official story of 9/11 and 7/7, right? and if you answer yes than I don't think we have anything further to discuss.



btw: go and have a look at what Islam's contribution to the world, every aspect of science, please don't take my word for it, go and find out for yourself, it's all out there it's not hidden.

Does this sound like a religion of good or does it sound like a religion of hatred?
Just for your information, the conversion to Islam and that is world wide, is unprecedented, again don't

take my word for it, go and search and listen what people are saying, since the 9/11 more and more people have converted to Islam, because they were curious to find out about this religion of hate.

And when they started looking into it, they were astonished by what they found.

where I work I had 9 people converted, where my wife works they were about 4 or 5 people converted. (yes my wife does work btw) she is chained to the kitchen sink :D

Everything I claim here, I am asking you to check it out for yourself, Islam encourages people to dig further and to search and find out the truth, coz the truth is often well hidden from the general public.

Muslims were warning the world for many generations about Israel, the Zionists, and the Satanists, wayyyyyyy before even people in the west started to acknowledge the possibility.

Anyway I think enough is said here, my fingers are tired lol

[eternal_spirit]

Take note of the lies and out right contradictions from a Muslim. And the silly waste of space and pathetic ramblings and praises of a God who never existed and a Prophet Muhammed who is Islam's role model.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543392

Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective

Question
Respected scholars, As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh. What does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really order to kill females in the name of honor?


Wa`alykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister in Islam, we do really appreciate your question, which shows how far you are interested in getting yourself well-acquainted with the sound teachings of Islam. May Allah bless your efforts in pursuit of knowledge and may He keep us all firm in the straight path!

Sister, it’s a well-known fact that Islam maintains the protection of life and does not sanction any violation against it. In the Glorious Qur’an, Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93)

`Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Texts/words from Muslims (same as most of my posts are about Islam)
So, there it is in plain English.:(

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2-Wun2dIg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-KHHKuVVRc
Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts


ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.
The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.
Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.
Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.
It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.
Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
Siddiqi said: “We realised that under the Arbitration Act we can make rulings which can be enforced by county and high courts. The act allows disputes to be resolved using alternatives like tribunals. This method is called alternative dispute resolution, which for Muslims is what the sharia courts are.”
The disclosure that Muslim courts have legal powers in Britain comes seven months after Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was pilloried for suggesting that the establishment of sharia in the future “seems unavoidable” in Britain.





In July, the head of the judiciary, the lord chief justice, Lord Phillips, further stoked controversy when he said that sharia could be used to settle marital and financial disputes.
In fact, Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.





It has also emerged that tribunal courts have settled six cases of domestic violence between married couples, working in tandem with the police investigations.
Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of “smaller” criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients approach them. “All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases,” said Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.
Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.
Politicians and church leaders expressed concerns that this could mark the beginnings of a “parallel legal system” based on sharia for some British Muslims.
Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so.”
Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “I think it’s appalling. I don’t think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state.”



There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.
Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.



The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.
In the six cases of domestic violence, Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment.

In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.
Siddiqi said that in the domestic violence cases, the advantage was that marriages were saved and couples given a second chance.
Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “The MCB supports these tribunals. If the Jewish courts are allowed to flourish, so must the sharia ones.”



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=scooby85;829008]



Show me once sentence in the quran that makes this obligatory? u cant. its tradition not religion..i doubt u no the difference between them :rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you want and play semantics. Facts are right here about your evil religion.

The practice of circumcision in Islam comes from the Hadith, Shariah law and the consensus of Islamic communities.

The Hadith

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu-Dawud: book 41, number 5251, Hasan)

Part 2.
The Shariah

The following reference to Shariah law comes from Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. This book comes with the approval al-Azhar University.

Al-Azhar University ( الأزهر الشريف) is the leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world.

Circumcision was introduced to the Iranians through Islam and is a rite of obligation amongst Jews. (like I keep saying you're just a later version of Judaism, or where really around before or at the same time)

However the practice has a long history in the middle east and was closely related to rituals dedicated to ancient gods and goddesses of fertility. Ancient Mesopotamian had festivals where the actual organ of a young boy was cut off and dedicated to the fertility goddess. The action was later reduced to inducing an incision instead. The blood was offered to the goddess and the occasion was celebrated publicly. In the old kingdom of Egypt myth contended that blood from circumcision to guarantee the fertility realted to the river Nile, and early Egpytian myth contended that blood from circumcision of another god fell down and created the universe. In one document from Egypt a man is stating that he was circumcised with 120 males and 120 females.

The prophet Muhammad himself is quoted as saying " It is an ordinance in men and honourable in women" indicating that the practise is very strongly urged, if not required outright. Many Islamic theologians have insisted that Muhammed and indeed all prophets were born circumcised. It is practised on Both male an female children born to Muslim parents as well of males of any age who join the religion. Most literature regarding circumcision is found in "hadith" these are narratives, sayings and deeds of prophet and his associates recorded by Muslim scholars and biographers. Legal discussions in the hadith literature about it resemble Talmudic discussions on issues of religious importance to Jews. Additionally the language used by the arabic sources evokes the more familiar Hebrew terminology.

Like the Quran, the different reports in the Hadith literature reveal little information concerning the reasons for male circumcision among Muslims. On the other hand reports point to one's status as a Muslim, a practitioner of the faith of Allah. Similarily other traditions teach that certain Islamic practices require the participants to be circumcise Muslims. These can include coversion, pilgramage to Mecca, inheritance, even prayer.

Shiite traditions regard the practice obligatory and tend to lead toward the extreme side on the issue. One account relates that the earth cries out to god in anguish on account of the uncircumcised. Another notes that Muslims should circumcise their sons on the seventh day, if not the earth becomes ritually contaminated for 40 days. Hadith are reported that the Prophet's grandsons Hassan and Husayn were circumcised on the seventh day after their birth and Fatima herself is quoted talking about her son's circumcision on this day.

The most common hadith attributed to the Prophet himself, mentions it in a list of practices known as "fitrah" meaning natural way or instinct. Abu Hurayra a companion of the prophet quotes, "five things are fitrah: circumcision, shaving the body with a razor, trimming the moustache, paring one's nails and plucking the hair from one's armpits" (al-Bukhari, al-Jami' al-sahih) In short these are practices that humans by instint have found to be good for them with or without organized religion. All of these practices under the fitrah indicate the importance of hygiene.

Muslims trace the genesis of the practice to Abraham in a manner similar to Judaism. Abraham is the spiritual ancestor and the physical forefather of the Arabs, through his son Ishmael. Along with Ishmael, Abraham built the Kabah, holiest shrine in Islam, and established many of the rituals practiced there. However, unlike the Bible, few of these narratives rprovide a reason for Abraham's self circumcision. rather, they state merely why he did it.

more here really bizzare
http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/a...rcumcision.php (http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/articles/rituals_of_circumcision.php)


pathetic comments like this proves ur a di*k and what havnt u avoided? erm everything. u didnt explain how a mosque with a capacity 1200 could try to convert the whole of britain thats 60m plus people. u didnt explain where it said that tax payers were funding the mosque? cos they didnt u lied. look ur a deluded wan*er if im honest and im not guna waste my time on a dis info agent like u..



And you're fucking blind, it was in the article I posted (not something I wrote myself) and it states money from taxpayers will help build the Mosque, so why say it didn't say that when it did say that.:rolleyes:

RACIST COMMENT EDITED OUT.

Partial Shariah law courts are now up and running in Britian, it's the thin end of a very big wedge. God help even the Muslims in Britain if 100% full Shariah laws are ever brought into action here.

[eternal_spirit]

quote: adbasque
Circumcision, Abraham was the very first to circumcise himself, The Jews Circumcise, The Christians do as well, it's not just The Muslims, if you have a problem with this take it on all 3 religions. :)

Women should NOT be touched in genitals at all, there are some crazy people somewhere in the sub sahara and not many thank god who were mutulating their daughters and that is "AGAINST the teachings of Islam.

Anything else you would like to know before starting again this raid of slander?Yes, Jews and Muslims as part of their religious initiation circumcise.

It is not a religious instruction of Christianity! Initiation into Catholicism the priest splashes a bit of water on the baby's head. (symbolic of the holy spirit)

Islam actually does circumcise women, read my previous posts. I read that they've stopped this in Egypt only just in the past few years.

Although it does seem to be the norm and majority of Muslims and definitely Muslim run owned countries that participate in this evil blood ritual, it needs to stop now.

[eternal_spirit]

I've been called BNP disinfo agent etc.

I am none of these things.

[adbasque]

Islam actually does circumcise women, read my previous posts. I read that they've stopped this in Egypt only just in the past few years.

stop now.

Listen I can go out and shoot somebody in cold blood and claim that Islam told me to do it, right?

Islam does not allow women to be circumcised, if you read what I posted first.
I did say it time and time and time and time again, that there are people who circumcise little girls, and it is barbaric.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM
but for some reason you are selectively blind to what ever we post, you keep on insisting on these lies.

Nobody is denying that there are people out there who claim to be Muslims and do completely different things, that are not found in the Quoran, Hadiths or anywhere near the Islamic teachings.

As for Christians don't circumcise, you have got to be joking, or you just proved you are a complete ignorant.

I am not trying to be horrible but I would strongly suggest to go out there and search, you want to engage in these kinds of debates, and you lack of a lot of knowledge.

Christians do circumcise, I was born into a christian family and every male in our family for generation had been circumcised, and not only our family millions of Christians.

You can check it out yourself I never tell a lie, I don't have to.

And once again Muslims don't circumcise women, there are people out there who claim to be Muslims, and yet they sell, drink alcohol, you can't do these things and be a Muslim.

I have met a lot of people having shops and claim to be Muslims, they pray once a week on a friday, that is not Islam.

You see that anyone can claim to be a Muslim and do the exact opposite of what Islam says and teaches

As I said before you are NOT at all interested in learning the truth, because whatever misinformation you are collecting suits you just fine.

And I really feel I am wasting my time with you.
Like I said before Saudi is NOT Islam but you keep bringing that S*** up every single one of your comments and posts has something about the Saudis.

despite the fact I explained to you what the saudis are, you still referring to them as the makers of Islam.

Anyway I am really tired of all this c****

[eternal_spirit]

adbasque
Nobody is denying that there are people out there who claim to be Muslims and do completely different things, that are not found in the Quoran, Hadiths or anywhere near the Islamic teachings.I've already posted texts/words from Muslims/hadiths on these issues a few post ago http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=835914&postcount=108

And explained Christians do not circumcise as part of initiation into their religion (unlike Jews and Muslims do)

Christians do circumcise, I was born into a christian family and every male in our family for generation had been circumcised,Now can you see the difference in this next paragraph?
I know there's Countries where most people circumcise because they claim it's cultural to that country regardless of what various religions they are including some Christians (but it's not part of any religious instruction of Christianity that was my point) I should know I was born Christian.
Saudi is NOT IslamSee they got Internet at the Mosques now, give you time to reply between your daily set of 5 prayers, facing Mecca (Saudi Arabia) the home and birth place of Islam.

If the Saudi's are not true Muslims then why the hell do millions of Muslims from around the planet visit their as instructed as one of the five pillars of Islam (or some other Islamic religious instruction)

Mohammed even trashed the pagan idols etc and took over Mecca, Islam means to carry on as it started as history has proven Mohammed was a thief, looter, slave master, mass murderer etc. It's a Muslims duty to live like Mohammed. And many do.

[adbasque]

I've already posted texts/words from Muslims/hadiths on these issues a few post ago http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=835914&postcount=108

And explained Christians do not circumcise as part of initiation into their religion (unlike Jews and Muslims do)

Now can you see the difference in this next paragraph?
I know there's Countries where most people circumcise because they claim it's cultural to that country regardless of what various religions they are including some Christians (but it's not part of any religious instruction of Christianity that was my point) I should know I was born Christian.
See they got Internet at the Mosques now, give you time to reply between your daily set of 5 prayers, facing Mecca (Saudi Arabia) the home and birth place of Islam.

If the Saudi's are not true Muslims then why the hell do millions of Muslims from around the planet visit their as instructed as one of the five pillars of Islam (or some other Islamic religious instruction)

Mohammed even trashed the pagan idols etc and took over Mecca, Islam means to carry on as it started as history has proven Mohammed was a thief, looter, slave master, mass murderer etc. It's a Muslims duty to live like Mohammed. And many do.

Can you talk without having to insult people?
Mecca and Saudis are two different things, if they are corrupt it doesn't mean Islam is.
They do not represent Islam, every Muslim will tell you that the Saudis are corrupt, if they weren't corrupt.

Would they go to Las veags and Casinos around Europe to spend millions of $$$ every visit?

Would they pay thousands of dollars an hour for a prostitute?
Would they starve their own people?
Would they ignore their Muslim brothers around the world?
Would spend their money on making stupid movies in Hollywood?
Would they side with Israel, British government and the Bush family?

Where did you get this Idea of Saudis are Islam?
it's like accusing all Christians of being the Vatican

one has nothing to do with the other, and for your information, The Saudis were put there by "BRITAIN" that's why I insist that you go and read some history of the world so you can find out the truth.

The Muslim been visiting Mecca as a holy site, as a pilgrimage, they don't go to mecca to visit these bastards.

Yes it is one of the five pillars of Islam, Islam came 1500 years ago, the Saudis were NOT Royalties back then, and you beloved Britain went and put a corrupt family into power, and now people like you see Islam = Saudis.

And for you to insult a Prophet, calling him names, it comes to show that you have no education, no manners, and you are a racist and ignorant.

It's like the Vatican represents Christianity, we know that the Vatican is the richest institution in the world and the most corrupt.

But we are not pig headed and accuse all Christians of what the F** Vatican is doing.
unlike you, all your arguments are based on the Saudis, despite a million times people here on this forum told you that the Saudis have nothing to do with Islam, you still bringing the Saudis into everyone of your so called "Args"

As I said you are not in any way interested in learning about the truth.
and your so called Hadiths you're claiming that you have posted, I can go now and bring you thousands of them.

Go and find me what we call a Hadith Sahih meaning Authentic.

I can give you hundreds of websites that are tarnishing Islam and they are created and ran by Israel and people like you.

Anyway no matter what people like you do, Islam will continue to grow and expand, because more and more people realise it's the truth, there's no BS init.

Nobody can touch it, not because Muslims are looking after, it's because God (Allah) is looking after it.

Go ahead slander as much as you like, do I care? absolutely not, you will be a loser not me.

And finally whether you like it or not, Christians do circumcise

[eternal_spirit]

quote: adbasque
Can you talk without having to insult people?

Yes, but you can't, you and your buddie scooby started with the name calling (see this is how I play it here, others always start on me first, then whine when I dish some of their hatred towards me right back at them) And I've been very calm compared to some others here.
Islam came 1500 years ago, the Saudis were NOT Royalties back then, and you beloved Britain went and put a corrupt family into power, and now people like you see Islam = Saudis.


I don't believe that. Because Mohammed your prophet was looting invading destroying, killing, raping, enslaving right from the beginning of Islam. Besides people like you always wanna try pin all the blame on the Brits.

The Crusades were not the beginning of the fight between Islam and the West, they were a second, belated act, by a hitherto sleep-walking Christian world, after centuries of Muslim/Arab aggression, centuries of invasions, conquests, massacres, forced conversions, that reached all the way into the heart of western Europe. After the birth of Islam, in a small, obscure part of Arabia, in the 7th century, wave after wave of Muslim armies crashed into Christian and Jewish lands, conquered them, usurped them, colonized them, bled them. These armies carried Islam all the way to southern Spain, to Andalusia, and of course to countless, mainly Christian, lands along that bloody way. Conquered peoples were offered few choices - convert or accept the humiliating status of dhimmi. Over three centuries later, after this massive jihad had begun, the European Christians finally and belatedly made some sort of response - the Crusades - and attempted to seize back at least some of the areas lost to Christendom.


http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/...liberal-islam/ (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/the-crusades-liberal-islam/)

Just one example of many articles and Islam has been doing the same invading it does Today as it has always done since it's conception/creation.

[adbasque]

Yes, but you can't, you and your buddie scooby started with the name calling (see this is how I play it here, others always start on me first, then whine when I dish some of their hatred towards me right back at them) And I've been very calm compared to some others here.


I don't want to get involved in these childish name calling.



I don't believe that. Because Mohammed your prophet was looting invading destroying, killing, raping, enslaving right from the beginning of Islam. Besides people like you always wanna try pin all the blame on the Brits.


Are you for real? lol you don't believe that the Saudis were put there by Britain?
You think I am making it all up? you really demonstrated that you are absolutely nothing but an Ignorant. you've just confirmed to everyone what you really are, and I could bet my life you are a member of BNP.

You know why, this is exactly how BNP members talk the exact same words and unfounded and unresearched arguments, they read the "Sun" and they gullibe everything in the SUN LOL.

Everybody knows that the Saudis were put there by Britain Hahaha
You really are a complete ignorant and I do feel sorry for you, honestly :(


The Crusades were not the beginning of the fight between Islam and the West, they were a second, belated act, by a hitherto sleep-walking Christian world, after centuries of Muslim/Arab aggression, centuries of invasions, conquests, massacres, forced conversions, that reached all the way into the heart of western Europe. After the birth of Islam, in a small, obscure part of Arabia, in the 7th century, wave after wave of Muslim armies crashed into Christian and Jewish lands, conquered them, usurped them, colonized them, bled them. These armies carried Islam all the way to southern Spain, to Andalusia, and of course to countless, mainly Christian, lands along that bloody way. Conquered peoples were offered few choices - convert or accept the humiliating status of dhimmi. Over three centuries later, after this massive jihad had begun, the European Christians finally and belatedly made some sort of response - the Crusades - and attempted to seize back at least some of the areas lost to Christendom.


You have to look why those "Crusades" started and if you really want to know the truth, the Muslims back then did NOT and I am saying did NOT kill children, women, innocent people. like the Christians did slaughter everyone babies children, women history is there, you can't change it, it is there and nobody can change it.

Like most people, you people always bring half of the story and make a story out of it LOL
typical, you never change.
These lies are now old, and no one believes them anymore they are all made up, by the same people who are enslaving you today :) wake up lol.



http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/...liberal-islam/ (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/the-crusades-liberal-islam/)

Don't bother with these links lol I have seen thousands of them, you are the type of person who would believe, the Sun, BBC, ITV, C4, FOX News, CNN, Al-Djazeera and so on lol, I do feel sorry for you really.



Just one example of many articles and Islam has been doing the same invading it does Today as it has always done since it's conception/creation.

I read thousands of the so called articles, did you trace their sources? of course not, you are not the type to do a research, you are the type who repeats and swallows what ever the BBC is telling him LOL I am laughing not because you are an ignorant, I don't laugh at ignorants I feel sorry for them.

I laugh because that is exactly what you want to believe, and speaking of hatred, I tell you the truth I don't hate anybody, not even you LOL

I don't have the time to hate people, life's too short for that, and hate never solved anything :)

I am going to put an end to this stupid subject, because as I said I am here not to preach religion, I am not interested in talking about religion, religion is first private and personal.

I am here to find a solution to the problem that "ALL" humanity is facing today, it is more important than arguing about religion, by all means if you want to carry on insulting and showing your hatred please do.

But me I've had just about enough of this endless loop.

Good luck with your quest of hatred make sure you don't leave any Muslim out, maybe one day that same Muslim will save your life :) ever thought of that?

Maybe one day you'll need an urgent organ transplant and the only one that has it, is a Muslim, would you say no to him? do you prefere to die instead?

:)

[eternal_spirit]

I don't want to get involved in these childish name calling. LOL! Yes right you're the one calling names not me. (see your at it again how many times have you wrongly/falsley called me BNP at least 3 times this week)

And I don't buy any of your rant about how great Muslims are and the rest are not etc etc.

Oh those:rolleyes: evil Christians :D (how dare they defend themselves against the mad killers and invading Islamic hordes)
Showing your true Islamic colours and beliefs. Bet you wished the Muslims had of reached Britan back in the days of Mohammed's raids/invasions.

British Royality maybe related to your prophet Mohammed (you must have seen such articles) if not look here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=820976&postcount=1
but they also have a lot of Jewish blood in them too (and like I keep saying you Muslims are more Jewish than anything else) where's the source of the religious/racial problem of superiority and God's chosen people's - not Britain but where it started in far off lands away from Britain. That's your lot bud.

I'd say your Hadiths and Shariah are much like the Talmud of Judaism. BTW us British didn't ask for your foreign Abrahamic religions (all bleedin 3)
And the good news is the majority now they have a choice are whole heartedly rejecting all 3! :)

[adbasque]

LOL! Yes right you're the one calling names not me. (see your at it again how many times have you wrongly/falsley called me BNP at least 3 times this week)

And I don't buy any of your rant about how great Muslims are and the rest are not etc etc.

Never said Muslims are great and the rest are not, Muslims are human beings there are good ones and bad ones like in every origin and religion

I called you BNP because you sound just like one of them, you use their slogans :)

Oh those:rolleyes: evil Christians :D (how dare they defend themselves against the mad killers and invading Islamic hordes)
Showing your true Islamic colours and beliefs. Bet you wished the Muslims had of reached Britan back in the days of Mohammed's raids/invasions.

The crusades were lead by the British Kings, and it was in the name of Christianity it had nothing to do with Christianity, but they lead the crusades in it's name :)


British Royality maybe related to your prophet Mohammed (you must have seen such articles) if not look here


Once again unfounded speculations, I read somewhere that the queen also a descent from Jacob and David

Unlike you, I don't believe everything I read, and if the Queen was related to the Prophet Mohammed saws, Britain would be a different country you can rest assured.

Even though there is a strong evidence that he husband prince Philip is a Greek Jew, is a simple coincidence :rolleyes:


but they also have a lot of Jewish blood in them too (and like I keep saying you Muslims are more Jewish than anything else) where's the source of the

religious/racial problem of superiority and God's chosen people's - not Britain but where it started in far off lands away from Britain. That's your lot bud.


Do you mean Jewish or Hebrew? :D again you don't even know what you're talking about lol

Muslim is NOT a race it's a religion or a way of life.
So let's take a closer look at your unfounded comments.

When I said time and time again, you are a repeater, lol (I have to laugh)
A Jew is somebody who recognises the Judaism faith, it's not a race.
Muslim can be Black, white, European, Asian, African, how can they have a blood of all these people?

Yes Islam in your head is limited to Mecca LOL and when you mention Islam you mention Arabs, there are only 20% of Arabs in the Muslim Uma (popualtion)


I'd say your Hadiths and Shariah are much like the Talmud of Judaism. BTW us British didn't ask for your foreign Abrahamic religions (all bleedin 3)
And the good news is the majority now they have a choice are whole heartedly rejecting all 3!

Who is the "US" British? lol how do you know where do you come from?
Hahaha and if you only knew what the word Brit Ish means you wouldn't say us British LOL

And do a search, what makes you think that people around the globe want the British presence? show me one country or continent that Britain didn't go to, and wiped out, civilisations, whole populations, do you want a list?

How dare you talk about people coming here, nobody on earth committed genocides like the Brits, I am not saying it, history man, read historyyyyy LOL

They nearly wiped out native americans, they nearly wiped out aborigines, African villages, Indian sub continent, China, and many more, and they still doing it!!

so you are not in a position to complain about people coming here ;)

as for Brit Ish

Go and do a search on these two words, please do a search you won't say it again lol I am sure.

There is a difference between UK and Britain and certainly British.
find out about your history first learn a little bit more stop listening to those manipulators and you think rejecting the 3 religions you are free?? LOL

The difference between you and me, is I have been searching for years and years, I don't talk from what people say around me, or the first links that

popup on google, I did a serious research, I did not become a Muslim because I had nothing better to do with my life, I was born here, and nobody can say

I am from here and not the rest. these a racist slogans, you see what I mean when I call you BNP?

I was born into a Christian family I embraced Islam because there are things you might never find out, the difference between you and me, I did not approach Islam with a racist views.

I do have an open mind and even if I am right, I still double and triple check everything.

I certainly don't talk for the sake of talking and I am not a repeater, what a joke, you gave me a link of this forum somebody you never heard of, came and wrote a small article and you believed him without even cheking it??

LOL sorry man in this case you are truly the ignorant, I do call you BNP yes if anyone reads your comments, can only deduct that you are either a member, or a sympathiser, you don't have to subscribe to their party to be one of them, your views says it all.

Don't skip any of what I mentioned above, read it very carefully and think about it ;)

I am sorry if a stop replying to your comments from now on, I am really wasting my time with backward arguments, especially when they are

unfounded, a complete misguidance of reality, I live in this country, there are more Atheists in the UK than there are anywhere else in the world did you know that?

Maybe it's to do with people here being more intelligent than the rest of the world, people around the world are stupid and backward if they still believe in God which is outdated thing, it's a thing of the past.

People of the UK have found the answers, no religion, no God, Free spirit, LOL

It's ok by me, you are free to not believe, as much as I respect your beliefs I want you to respect mine.

[eternal_spirit]

Haha Like I've already said before, you'll blame everything on the Brits and Jews. Anything to deflect attention from the real issue of this thread Islam and it's sick laws.

Your problem is assuming you're telling me things I haven't already heard/read before.

You can't fool me. Islam has been invading and taking over countries long before the British Empire. And if the Royals are related to Mohamed your prophet, then it must be in their blood same as Rothschilds are tied in with most Royalty and probably Elites/rulers too.

I may deal with some of your other points later and show which ones I agree with and ones I don't.:cool:

[adbasque]

Haha Like I've already said before, you'll blame everything on the Brits and Jews. Anything to deflect attention from the real issue of this thread Islam and it's sick laws.

Your problem is assuming you're telling me things I haven't already heard/read before.

You can't fool me. Islam has been invading and taking over countries long before the British Empire. And if the Royals are related to Mohamed your prophet, then it must be in their blood same as Rothschilds are tied in with most Royalty and probably Elites/rulers too.

I may deal with some of your other points later and show which ones I agree with and ones I don't.:cool:

Ah Lol finally you want to tie the Rothschild and the Elite with Islam, because suddenly the truth poped up, and you don't like it to see that Muslims are not behind all these atrocities, and you don't like that? hein? LOL

so you have to find a way to tie Islam to any wrong doing on this planet and through out history Lol

And that's why they are attacking Muslims all around the world, and trying to suppress Islam and eradicate it from the face of the earth, the same Islam that is preventing them from exploiting you.

The same Islam that is against Taxes, Interests, rip offs, the same Islam that is fighting against injustice, the same Islam that is protecting the orphans, women, the weak, the disabled?? LOL

You are trying to link Islam to the Rothschild?? you are an absolute joke
No I have a better solution don't deal with my other points, you can't even deal with your own.

You deliberately ignored all of my points, above there, and if you think the British started only recently than you've got another think coming.

I told you you lack of knowledge, you hear things or should I say half things, you take half the story and go and spread your lies.

If the Rothschilds are tied to Islam, ok?
Why is it then Islam forbids the use of interests?
Why is it then Islam forbids the Gambling?
Why is it then Islam forbids Taxes?
Everything that your Rothschilds are doing is against Islam, how can they be behind Islam and at the same time fighting it? hummm what sort of logic is this>?

But I have to say they did a good damn job especially on people like you LOL
people who think they are free, and believe that this existence just happened by itself, there's no God, it just wasn't and then suddenly we are all here and everything is working perfectly.

the havens rotate by themselves, the stars and the galaxies just happened by themselves LOL.

Only selfish people can claim there's no God only Arrogant people claim there's no God, but it's fine by me. they can believe whatever they want.

You want the truth?

I'll tell you exactly what's your problem, yes I can't prove it but this is just for you, not to people reading this thread.

You problem is how come an Arab somewhere in the desert 1500 years ago, could show me what to do and not to do.
Your problem is nothing but "Arrogance" because throughout your life, you've been brought up to think, you are superior to these people.

And the way they dress, the way they live they must be real backward people, and I am a modern man, I am the evolution of man kind, I am me, I am the superior, and especially if it comes from the desert of the Arabian peninsula.

You are an arrogant person, and to be honest so long as you keep this full of hot air attitude you ain't moving forward.

A great man is the man that keeps a real open mind and overcomes his ego.
at the moment you are a slave of your own ego.

Your downfall would be a total ignorance, and you are showing signs already
many times, I pinned you to the wall, you had absolutely no answers, you know why?

that's the difference between one who tells the truth and one who slanders and spreads false information sooner or later he'll get caught.

As you can see your dear Elite, they lied to people for many centuries and now they are caught in their own lies and the danger sometimes they start to believe their own lies.

Anyway enough said about this
Good luck in your quest, if somebody else want to debate with you good luck to both of you.

I haven't got time and I'd rather concetrate on the problem at hand.
see you around

[limelady]

Please stick to discussing the topic and keep the personal insults and racist comments out thanks folks.

[shenoma]

I believe the Muslim faith was taken over by nut jobs. The much more honorable history sets has example of what I mean. If wasn't for their collages, Europe would still be in the dark ages. Just because it is in a major decline for along time doesn't mean it was always this way. I am still studying about it, and will leave my personal judgment for later.

[adbasque]

Please stick to discussing the topic and keep the personal insults and racist comments out thanks folks.

You're absolutely right, I got carried away, I should simply have stopped, this is not why I come to this forum, I usually avoid these kinds of debates and topics.



Sorry if I offended anyone

[eternal_spirit]

Ah Lol finally you want to tie the Rothschild and the Elite with Islam, because suddenly the truth poped up, and you don't like it to see that Muslims are not behind all these atrocities, and you don't like that? hein? LOL
:rolleyes:
No I said if the Royals are related to Mohamed your prophet, then it must be in their blood same as Rothschilds are tied in with most Royalty and probably Elites/rulers too.


And that's why they are attacking Muslims all around the world, and trying to suppress Islam and eradicate it from the face of the earth, the same Islam that is preventing them from exploiting you.
Islam has done damage to others since it began. WTF Islam constantly tells us we are dirty Kaffirs and none belivers should be converted or killed. :eek::( Eradicate from the Earth, that's a bit over dramatic and I think you're paranoid (besides there's around a billion and half Muslims) it ain't gonna happen.
The same Islam that is against Taxes, Interests, rip offs, the same Islam that is fighting against injustice, the same Islam that is protecting the orphans, women, the weak, the disabled?? LOLOn one hand you're right.
But on the other (yes glad to say I have two hands unlike some poor unfortunate Muslims):(
Islam that genitally mutilates, keep slaves, chops off heads, hands and feet (Islam makes people disabled) stones women to death, treats women as lesser beings than men with less freedoms and rights. (Muslim women tell us these truths)

You are trying to link Islam to the Rothschild?? you are an absolute joke
No I have a better solution don't deal with my other points, you can't even deal with your own.
Already explained why I mentioned Rotshchilds but your hate and venom and the need to protect and project onto others to avoid the real truths and evils that is Islam has blinded your reason and logic to the point you cannot comprehend plain English, hence your skewed replies.
You deliberately ignored all of my points, above there, and if you think the British started only recently than you've got another think coming.See above
I told you you lack of knowledge, you hear things or should I say half things, you take half the story and go and spread your lies.No, you're the liar.

If the Rothschilds are tied to Islam, ok?
Why is it then Islam forbids the use of interests?
Why is it then Islam forbids the Gambling?
Why is it then Islam forbids Taxes?
Everything that your Rothschilds are doing is against Islam, how can they be behind Islam and at the same time fighting it? hummm what sort of logic is this>?
Partly correct also
In denial, many Muslims partake in all the above, especially when they think no one's looking or when they visit places or live in places such as Britain (bloody hypocroites and liars that's Muslims - fact):D
But I have to say they did a good damn job especially on people like you LOLIslam done a good brainwashing routine on you my friend :D
people who think they are free, and believe that this existence just happened by itself, there's no God, it just wasn't and then suddenly we are all here and everything is working perfectly.

the havens rotate by themselves, the stars and the galaxies just happened by themselves LOL.

Only selfish people can claim there's no God only Arrogant people claim there's no God, but it's fine by me. they can believe whatever they want.
Religious people tend to be preachy and bang on about some God (their imaginary friend in the sky and have to follow words written in books by dodgy Arabs/Jews from centuries ago, because they have lost any true connection with their own mind and spirit. :)
You want the truth?

I'll tell you exactly what's your problem, yes I can't prove it but this is just for you, not to people reading this thread.

You problem is how come an Arab somewhere in the desert 1500 years ago, could show me what to do and not to do.
Your problem is nothing but "Arrogance" because throughout your life, you've been brought up to think, you are superior to these people.
Yeah right judge me on some religious teachings written by some dodgy Arabs/Jews, you've fallen and believe their crap more fool you.
And the way they dress, the way they live they must be real backward people, and I am a modern man, I am the evolution of man kind, I am me, I am the superior, and especially if it comes from the desert of the Arabian peninsula.
Backward as in stuck in the past because of a stupid religion, that won't reform or change it's ways, because they believe it's the true words of God and cannot/should not be changed That has nothing to do with how they dress.

You are an arrogant person, and to be honest so long as you keep this full of hot air attitude you ain't moving forward.
You've been calling me names page after page, so your description of me suits yourself much better... you don't know me from Adam and have mad so many wrong conclusions about me.


at the moment you are a slave of your own ego.No wrong

Your downfall would be a total ignorance, and you are showing signs already
many times, I pinned you to the wall, you had absolutely no answers, you know why?
LOL too funny it's the other way around :D
that's the difference between one who tells the truth and one who slanders and spreads false information sooner or later he'll get caught.
Yes and you've been caught lying more than once so far.

As you can see your dear Elite, they lied to people for many centuries and now they are caught in their own lies and the danger sometimes they start to believe their own lies.
My Elite, you mean your Muslim elite also.
Anyway enough said about this
Good luck in your quest, if somebody else want to debate with you good luck to both of you.

I haven't got time and I'd rather concetrate on the problem at hand.
see you around
You'll need the luck of the irish at least to get away from Islam. Bit like the Mafia or some high ranked Illuminati like Freemasonic thing isn't it - once you're in it's almost impossible to get out.
Congratualtions for ranting on and going way off topic, don't know why I bothered replying, just to try reply to some of your mis-conceptions I guess.
Hopefully if we debate again we'll agree on more, just don't talk religion lol. :cool:

[adbasque]

:)

[zarah]

Ok let's say you want the truth,ok? first of all do you know what the word fundamentalist means?

.....

Anyway I think enough is said here, my fingers are tired lol

That post was honestly the best I've ever read on this site.

[zarah]

[QUOTE]
You can roll your eyes all you want and play semantics. Facts are right here about your evil religion.


RACIST COMMENT EDITED OUT.

Partial Shariah law courts are now up and running in Britian, it's the thin end of a very big wedge. God help even the Muslims in Britain if 100% full Shariah laws are ever brought into action here.

Y'know, I really used to think you were an intelligent person, but it's becoming more and more evident you're as ignorant as the 'sheeple' you think you're superior to. I know you haven't ever read the Qur'an, unless it's been in the last six months or so, which I seriously doubt.

Shariah courts have no jurisdiction on English law as well you should know, but can be used as a form of adjudication in disputes, as are many other ADR techiniques, including Judaic courts should both parties be willing.

I'm just taking parts of your posts, because they do tend to be a tad long winded and I've got an assignment to start, but if you read the Qur'an you would clearly see reference to the fact that God asks his faithful not to follow the teachings of any prophet, including Mohammed. For many Muslims, this means that although Hadiths are an important part of historical narrative, it is not essential they are followed. You are also aware, I'm sure, that most if not all Hadiths were written 50 - 200 years after Mohammed's death and so their accuracy cannot be guaranteed.

As many other intelligent posters have noted, Islam, like other organised religions has been infiltrated and changed in part, by those with agendas. Whether you choose to believe that or not doesn't change the fact that the Qu'ran asks us to search for answers ourselves, not listen to the teachings of 'scholars', it also teaches that the relationship between a Muslim and God is a personal two way one, and one must be responsible for his or her own actions.

I don't know what your agenda is, I used to think you were a truth seeker like most of us, but now I'm less sure. I would hope that you will desist in the insults and slurs directed against those who you disagree with. Your argument is lost and you simply appear to be nothing more than one of those idiot people who, when they feel threatened by something they don't understand, become aggressive and hostile to mask their fear.

[w1nstonsm1th84]

Please stick to discussing the topic and keep the personal insults and racist comments out thanks folks.



Just a reminder folks- limelady has asked that personal insults (and racist comments) be kept out of this thread- please follow the rules. Here are the Forum Guidelines (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/faq.php) (< please 'click')- you'll find that personal insults (and racism) are not allowed on the DI forums.

Anyone ignoring thread warnings may receive an official warning, and/or spam points.

Please stick to the topic in hand, but refrain from insulting fellow forum members.

Thanks.

[eternal_spirit]

Who started the name calling not me, I replied to a constant barrage of abuse, which is still on going, I ignored it at first but had to give some back.

And were was the racist comments I was supposed to have made? Is Islam now a race? No.
I've been called BNP about 7 times on the previous page by the same Muslim convert (which is an out right lie) I am not BNP.

Although I wouldn't expect anything less than lies and name calling from a bunch of brainwashed Muslim converts. I quote from Muslims own words and texts, laws etc, so how can I be making it up?

[eternal_spirit]

What is Apostacy?

Technically, apostacy means to leave a religion. It means to once have been a member or believer in a faith and then to cease to believe or to convert to another faith or to question an important aspect of ones faith.

What actually happens to Apostates who are caught in Muslim countries?



Iran Ruhollah Rowhani, 52, was executed in 1998 for converting to the Baha'i faith from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). The US State Department has called on Iran "to protect (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) the lives of 15 other imprisoned Baha'is. Three of them, Ata'ullah Hamid Nasirizadih, Sirus Dhabih- Magadamme and Hidayad Kashifi, have already been sentenced to death. Moderate President Khatami can do little to help as the courts are controlled by religious hardliners.
The Reverend Mehdi Dibaj had converted from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) 45 years ago. On 21/12/93 he was sentenced to death on charges of apostasy. Released on appeal his body was found on 5 July 1994. The Reverend Haik Mehr, Superintendent of the Church of the Assemblies of God, who had campaigned against Dibaj's death sentence was found dead on 20/1/94. On 2 July 1994 the body of the Reverend Tatavous Michaelian, Chairman of the Council of Protestant Ministers in Iran was found with several gun shots to the head.
Egypt (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) We wish to raise what, at first glance, may appear to be an inconsequential or even humorous matter [at least in Australia where a good proportion of partners are unmarried]. A Cairo (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) court has ordered the divorce of a couple who wish to stay together. Islamists (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) have claimed that Professor Nasser Hamed Abu Zaid is guilty of heresy in writing that "Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)'s teachings should evolve with changes in society." However, a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) cannot be married to a heretic, a non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). He and his wife (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html), Ibtihal, also an academic have appealed against the ruling and can remain together for the time being. However if the prosecution stands, they could lose their jobs or even be killed .by fanatics as "adulterers ("living in sin") or as apostates ("deserters of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)") [From "Some Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) History]
While there are, as yet, no laws against apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the missionary or the convert may be convicted on other charges, for example "threatening social peace (http://www.peacefaq.com/peace.html) and intercommunal relations". There is, however, a Supreme Court ruling that a Moslem (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who apostacises is legally dead. He loses all rights and powers. He cannot withdraw funds from his accounts. Any person who kills him does not commit murder from a legal point of view because he is already legally dead. The "dead" person cannot marry or inherit. Nor is it possible for an apostate to have his identity card changed to "Christian (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html)". More than one hundred and fifty Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who have adopted Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) have been detained in maximum-security (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) prisons. They have been accused of threatening national unity. One example from a Copt (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html)ic press release, concerned the case of Dr. Abdul-Rahman who has been held in Cairo (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) without trial for two years for breaking with Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). He is in solitary confinement but his will has not been broken. He is undoubtedly being used as a warning to anyone else contemplating apostasy




Sudan Bit by bit the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) fundamentalists, the Ikhwan, were able to consolidate their power in Khartoum. In September 1983 a version of Shariah, the "September Law" was introduced. Many floggings, amputations and stonings were carried out. Incorporated in the law was ijtihad or "free interpretation". If the qazi was unable to find a relevant (http://www.peacefaq.com/palestine.html) law to convict a defendant he could search the Qur'an (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and Hadith (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) at his discretion. For example Mahmoud Taha, the 76 year old leader of the Republican Brothers was hanged in January 1985 for apostasy, although it was not a crime at that time.
A number of southerners living in the north had changed their names to Arabic (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html) ones to improve their business prospects. They discovered that they had done a dangerous thing; now they were expected to be practising Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and could not use their original names without being subject to the death penalty for apostasy. Similarly at risk were non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) families who adopted Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) or an Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) name so that they could qualify for relief supplies during a famine. Also trapped were non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) men who had "embraced" Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) so that they could marry Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) women (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) or to be able to obtain easy divorces.
15/7/98 Mekki Kuku is held in a Khartoum jail awaiting trial on a charge of apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html). Sudan has the death penalty for "deserting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)."
Mauritania "Every Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) guilty of the crime of apostasy, whether by word or action, will be invited to repent over a period of three days. If he does not repent within this time limit, he is to be condemned to death as an apostate and his property will be confiscated by the Treasury
Every Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who refuses to pray will be invited to fulfill the obligation of prayer in the prescribed time limit. .. If he persists in his refusal he will be punished by the death penalty."
India (http://www.peacefaq.com/india.html) The Muhtasib saw to it that the Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) did not omit the five daily prayers and the fasts of Ramadan. State musicians and singers were pensioned off. The death penalty for apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) was enforced.
Rushdie claimed (1985) to be a non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and so is not bound by Shariah blasphemy (http://www.peacefaq.com/blasphemy.html) laws. If he was born of Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) parents then the Shariah does not allow him to leave Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) even in childhood. The penalty under Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) law for apostasy is death. Did you know that Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) religious law to rate as equal to existing British law? A British Pakistani (http://www.peacefaq.com/india.html) father murdered his daughter (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) for converting to a Jehovah's Witness. He would, of course, have been acquitted, under Shariah which the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) fundamentalists are trying to bring into England. leaders in Britain want
Chechnya Theologians from Chechnya and Dagestan ordered Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to carry out the death sentence against Gov. Aman Tuleyev "at the first possible opportunity". He has been accused of being baptized as an Orthodox Christian (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) on June 25.
The death penalty for apostasy ("deserting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)") is not Qur'anic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) but it is Shariah (Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Law) as Prophet Muhammad (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) executed a number of apostates.
Tuleyev denies the report that he had been baptized and says he is not religious. Thus he is still technically an apostate as, being of Kazakh origin, he is "a member of a predominantly Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) ethnic (http://www.peacefaq.com/race.html) group" as the theologians say.
Libya Indeed, the only Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) author to have cast doubts on male circumcision has had legal action brought against him and might be sentenced to death for apostasy. I am speaking of (retired) Judge Mustafa Kamal Al-Mahdawi, a personal friend of mine, who is today under a ferocious attack lead by Libyan religious circles in the mosques as well in the press. The preacher of the Mosque of the Prophet (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html), in Medina, Saudi Arabia (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html), published in July 1992 a pamphlet handed out free of charge in Libya. In this pamphlet, he asks the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Arab (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html) League and the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Conference to set up a collective fatwa (http://www.peacefaq.com/jihad.html) of all Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) scholars against this judge and to execute him as an apostate if he does not retract. As for his book, the preacher asks that it be removed from the shelves, burned and forbidden to any reader. He blames the judge for having, among other things, denied that male circumcision is compulsory when there is unanimity in favour of it and when Mohammed (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) was Himself circumcised 54.


Why is Apostacy such a terrible crime in Islam?



Apostasy (Irtidad) in Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) ?If a person is raised in a society which protects (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) his soul from the impurities of kufr and shirk, or if a person is shown the Right Path accepts it willingly - can such a person reject the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) faith? Is he allowed to apostate (become murtad)? Can he declare that he does not believe in God, Prophet Muhammad (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) and the Day of Judgement?
Once a person enters into the fold of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the rules change. As soon as you become a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) by your own choice, you are expected to submit yourself to Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) totally and completely. "O You who believe! Enter into submission, kaffatan!" (2:208) he surrenders the right of making decisions to Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and His Messenger. No believing man and no believing woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) has a choice in their own affairs when Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)
Now even the question of apostasy, irtidad or deserting of one's faith, for a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), becomes a shar'i/religious issue - even in this issue he is governed by the laws of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). And Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) clearly says: No! You cannot become an apostate.After coming into the fold of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), rejection of the fundamentals is not tolerated. If there are doubts in your mind about the fundamental beliefs of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), then discuss, question, debate, study and solve them BUT you are not allowed to leave Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), desert your own fitra!
On the issue of openly rejecting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) cannot just stand aside and see one of its followers going astray. It would allow discussions to understand and solve the problems, but not allow its followers to lower themselves from the sublime status of "surrendering to the will of Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)-Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)" to the status of those "who have hearts but do not understand, ears but do not hear, and eyes but do not see."
Apostasy is Equal to Treason Why does Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) not allow apostasy? Apostasy or irtidad in Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) is equal to treason. ?In Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the concept of treason is not limited to political and military affairs, it also has a spiritual and cultural dimension to it. In the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) order of sacredness, Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) then the Prophet (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) and then the Qur'an (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) occupy the highest positions. Tawhid, nubuwwa, and qiyama form the constitution (http://www.peacefaq.com/democracy.html) of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Just as upholding and protecting (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) the constitution (http://www.peacefaq.com/democracy.html) of a country is a sign of patriotism, and undermining it is a form of treason - in the same way open rejection of the fundamental beliefs of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) by a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) is an act of treason. Apostasy i.e. the public declaration of rejecting the fundamentals of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), has also negative influence on the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) society, it is indeed a major fitna.
And that is why Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) has prescribed harsh punishment for irtidad. It must be emphasized that irtidad which we are dicussing here involves open rejection without any force and with the realization of what one's statements or actions imply. The punishment prescibed by the shari'a for apostasy is death.
Even the terms used by the shari'a for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli. (1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) parent and then he rejects Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Fitri means nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html) or natural. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostacized from his nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html), the nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html) of believing in God. (2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then later on he rejects Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person that the person has apostacized from his community.
In the first case, the apostasy is like treason against God, whereas in the second case, the apostasy is like treason against the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) community. Probably, that is why there is also a difference in dealing with these two kinds of murtad.
A former kafir who becomes a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents then he is not to be killed.
But one who is born as a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) but he still has to go through the punishment prescibed for his treason in this world.
This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is suspended.
(Excerpts from "Left Shoe News (http://www.hraic.org.uk/)")

http://www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.html

[eternal_spirit]

quote: zarah

Y'know, I really used to think you were an intelligent person, but it's becoming more and more evident you're as ignorant as the 'sheeple' you think you're superior to. I know you haven't ever read the Qur'an, unless it's been in the last six months or so, which I seriously doubt.

Shariah courts have no jurisdiction on English law as well you should know, but can be used as a form of adjudication in disputes, as are many other ADR techiniques, including Judaic courts should both parties be willing.

I'm just taking parts of your posts, because they do tend to be a tad long winded and I've got an assignment to start, but if you read the Qur'an you would clearly see reference to the fact that God asks his faithful not to follow the teachings of any prophet, including Mohammed. For many Muslims, this means that although Hadiths are an important part of historical narrative, it is not essential they are followed. You are also aware, I'm sure, that most if not all Hadiths were written 50 - 200 years after Mohammed's death and so their accuracy cannot be guaranteed.

As many other intelligent posters have noted, Islam, like other organised religions has been infiltrated and changed in part, by those with agendas. Whether you choose to believe that or not doesn't change the fact that the Qu'ran asks us to search for answers ourselves, not listen to the teachings of 'scholars', it also teaches that the relationship between a Muslim and God is a personal two way one, and one must be responsible for his or her own actions.

I don't know what your agenda is, I used to think you were a truth seeker like most of us, but now I'm less sure. I would hope that you will desist in the insults and slurs directed against those who you disagree with. Your argument is lost and you simply appear to be nothing more than one of those idiot people who, when they feel threatened by something they don't understand, become aggressive and hostile to mask their fear.



Well I don't care for your psychological analysis. Had that attempted by your Muslim buddies (converts) before.

Regardless hadiths are viewed as divine and holy same as Koran. None of it is the word/work of God, but men who invented a oppressive female suppressing regime of the worst kind. Bit like the Talmud of Judaism.

Islam was never a religion of peace it was always war like, oppressive and a dangerous death cult since it began... so I don't buy it was corrupted and taken over by some nasty people. It was corrupt from the beginning.

Mohammed was nasty - fact. A good Muslim should try and be like Mohammed by following his examples.

And here are some of those examples of Islam in it's infancy
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=787187&postcount=28

and also
The Crusades were not the beginning of the fight between Islam and the West, they were a second, belated act, by a hitherto sleep-walking Christian world, after centuries of Muslim/Arab aggression, centuries of invasions, conquests, massacres, forced conversions, that reached all the way into the heart of western Europe. After the birth of Islam, in a small, obscure part of Arabia, in the 7th century, wave after wave of Muslim armies crashed into Christian and Jewish lands, conquered them, usurped them, colonized them, bled them. These armies carried Islam all the way to southern Spain, to Andalusia, and of course to countless, mainly Christian, lands along that bloody way. Conquered peoples were offered few choices - convert or accept the humiliating status of dhimmi. Over three centuries later, after this massive jihad had begun, the European Christians finally and belatedly made some sort of response - the Crusades - and attempted to seize back at least some of the areas lost to Christendom.


http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/...liberal-islam/ (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/the-crusades-liberal-islam/)

Just one example of many articles and Islam has been doing the same invading it does Today as it has always done since it's conception/creation.

[adbasque]

Well I don't care for your psychological analysis. Had that attempted by your Muslim buddies (converts) before.

Regardless hadiths are viewed as divine and holy same as Koran. None of it is the word/work of God, but men who invented a oppressive female suppressing regime of the worst kind. Bit like the Talmud of Judaism.

Islam was never a religion of peace it was always war like, oppressive and a dangerous death cult since it began... so I don't buy it was corrupted and taken over by some nasty people. It was corrupt from the beginning.

Mohammed was nasty - fact. A good Muslim should try and be like Mohammed by following his examples.

And here are some of those examples of Islam in it's infancy
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=787187&postcount=28

and also
The Crusades were not the beginning of the fight between Islam and the West, they were a second, belated act, by a hitherto sleep-walking Christian world, after centuries of Muslim/Arab aggression, centuries of invasions, conquests, massacres, forced conversions, that reached all the way into the heart of western Europe. After the birth of Islam, in a small, obscure part of Arabia, in the 7th century, wave after wave of Muslim armies crashed into Christian and Jewish lands, conquered them, usurped them, colonized them, bled them. These armies carried Islam all the way to southern Spain, to Andalusia, and of course to countless, mainly Christian, lands along that bloody way. Conquered peoples were offered few choices - convert or accept the humiliating status of dhimmi. Over three centuries later, after this massive jihad had begun, the European Christians finally and belatedly made some sort of response - the Crusades - and attempted to seize back at least some of the areas lost to Christendom.


http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/...liberal-islam/ (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/453/the-crusades-liberal-islam/)

Just one example of many articles and Islam has been doing the same invading it does Today as it has always done since it's conception/creation.

:)

[zarah]

Well I don't care for your psychological analysis. Had that attempted by your Muslim buddies (converts) before.


You post in public in a website forum, you run the risk of someone analysing your posts. Deal with it.

Regardless hadiths are viewed as divine and holy same as Koran. None of it is the word/work of God, but men who invented a oppressive female suppressing regime of the worst kind. Bit like the Talmud of Judaism.

I don't disagree. However, have you ever considered that Islam has been twisted by those with agendas?

Islam was never a religion of peace it was always war like, oppressive and a dangerous death cult since it began... so I don't buy it was corrupted and taken over by some nasty people. It was corrupt from the beginning.

Three questions: On what historical basis is your assertion? (please don't post copious amounts picked up from a random website, please be succinct) Have you ever opened the Qu'ran and read it? Is this what we should base your obvious extenstive wisdom on?

Mohammed was nasty - fact. A good Muslim should try and be like Mohammed by following his examples.

Many examples of Muhammed's kindness and humanity have been given to you and you've consistently refused to acknowledge one. I can only conclude you have a rather sinister agenda.

The Crusades were not the beginning of the fight between Islam and the West, they were a second, belated act, by a hitherto sleep-walking Christian world, after centuries of Muslim/Arab aggression, centuries of invasions, conquests, massacres, forced conversions, that reached all the way into the heart of western Europe. After the birth of Islam, in a small, obscure part of Arabia, in the 7th century, wave after wave of Muslim armies crashed into Christian and Jewish lands, conquered them, usurped them, colonized them, bled them. These armies carried Islam all the way to southern Spain, to Andalusia, and of course to countless, mainly Christian, lands along that bloody way. Conquered peoples were offered few choices - convert or accept the humiliating status of dhimmi. Over three centuries later, after this massive jihad had begun, the European Christians finally and belatedly made some sort of response - the Crusades - and attempted to seize back at least some of the areas lost to Christendom.


Have you seriously ever picked up an historical narrative which wasn't penned by some anti Islamic lunatic with nothing better to do with his time? I honestly doubt it. I could recommend some, and I would suggest you start with Karen Armstrong's biography on Muhammed.

Just one example of many articles and Islam has been doing the same invading it does Today as it has always done since it's conception/creation.

Of course Islam is used as a controlling tool. It happens with every faith and every sect all over the world. You do nothing but highlight that. The problem is that because you do little else but read other people's opinions on Islam, you quite obviously hold little or no knowledge of it first hand. For those who do, your arguments are not only easily fallacious, but exceedingly ignorant.

[picha]

You post in public in a website forum, you run the risk of someone analysing your posts. Deal with it.



I don't disagree. However, have you ever considered that Islam has been twisted by those with agendas?



Three questions: On what historical basis is your assertion? (please don't post copious amounts picked up from a random website, please be succinct) Have you ever opened the Qu'ran and read it? Is this what we should base your obvious extenstive wisdom on?



Many examples of Muhammed's kindness and humanity have been given to you and you've consistently refused to acknowledge one. I can only conclude you have a rather sinister agenda.



Have you seriously ever picked up an historical narrative which wasn't penned by some anti Islamic lunatic with nothing better to do with his time? I honestly doubt it. I could recommend some, and I would suggest you start with Karen Armstrong's biography on Muhammed.



Of course Islam is used as a controlling tool. It happens with every faith and every sect all over the world. You do nothing but highlight that. The problem is that because you do little else but read other people's opinions on Islam, you quite obviously hold little or no knowledge of it first hand. For those who do, your arguments are not only easily fallacious, but exceedingly ignorant.

Was mohammed being 'kind' to aisha when as a 53 year old he put his willy in her when she was 9?

[adbasque]

Was mohammed being 'kind' to aisha when as a 53 year old he put his willy in her when she was 9?

Again Ignorance strikes

[eternal_spirit]

1. History Sindh, Invasions, Arab contact, trade, civilization, India ...

"2 May 2002 ... The claim that Sindh during the 7th century was reeling from the hegemony ... several 5th-7th C Gupta-period land decrees demonstrate that caste .... It was the cohesive force of Islam that enabled the Arabs to combine ..."
http://india_resource.tripod.com/sindh.html

2. History of the Southern Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Philistines (whose traces disappear before the 5th century BCE) are ..... to the Islamic Arab invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire in the 7th century. ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

3. History of Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Xuanzang reports in his travels across India during the 7th century of Buddhism ... By the end of the 12th century, following the Islamic conquest of the ... the White Hun invasion in the 5th century where under the King Mihirkula they ..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism

4. Arabia - History. Pre-Islamic Arabia, to the 7th Century AD.

"Pre-Islamic Arabia, to the 7th Century. History of Arabia The history of Arabia and its inhabitants naturally divides itself into two distinct and even ..."
www.1902encyclopedia.com/A/ARA/arabia-40.html (http://www.1902encyclopedia.com/A/ARA/arabia-40.html)

5. Durga's origins :Shahi and Kashmiri Durga

"Facing to the islamic invasions, the evolution of Durga's image in the Turki ... 3rd century until the Hephthalit invasions at the end of the 5th century. ... because of the islamic invasions of the 7th century, Islam prohibiting the ..."
www.scribd.com/doc/11372340/Durgas-origins-Shahi-and-Kashmiri-Durga (http://www.scribd.com/doc/11372340/Durgas-origins-Shahi-and-Kashmiri-Durga)

6. Islamic invasion of India

"Islamic invasion of India: Encyclopedia II - Indo-Parthian Kingdom - Main Indo- Parthian rulers. 6th century BCE 5th century BCE 4th century BCE 3rd century ..."
www.experiencefestival.com/islamic_invasion_of_india/page/2 (http://www.experiencefestival.com/islamic_invasion_of_india/page/2)

7. Chapter 13 Abbasid Decline and the Spread of Islamic Civilization ...

"The Coming of Islam to South Asia. Muslim invasions from the 7th century ... rival dynasties after the 5th century fall of the Gupta until Harsha in the 7th ..."
occawlonline.pearsoned.com/bookbind/pubbooks/stearns_awl/medialib/IM/ch13.pdf

8. Revision:A Continuous History of the Empire of New Rome - The ...

"In the 5th 6th, 7th centuries, major cultural changes, no longercities on classical model, ... Islamic invasion saw continuation of existing trends. ... By the 7th century old style political elite almost vanished. ..."
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Revision:A_Continuous_History_of_the_Empire_of_New _Rome (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Revision:A_Continuous_History_of_the_Empire_of_New _Rome)

9. BBC World Service | The Story of Africa

"5th-7th Century - Scriptures translated into Ge'ez in Ethiopia ... 639 - Islam comes to North Africa, displacing Christianity on a large scale ... 639 - Muslim invasion of Egypt under Amr Ibn al-As challenging Roman Byzantine rule ..."
www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/1624_story_of_africa/page96.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/1624_story_of_africa/page96.shtml)

10. Islamic Danger in History: Lebanon, the Arab Invasion, and The ...

"4 Jan 2009 ... Lebanon, the Arab Invasion, and The Arrival of Islam .... From early in the 5th Century and throughout the 6th, through the works of the ... By the end of the 7th century the Arabs and the Persians, newcomers to an ..
http://islamicdangerhistory.blogspot...rrival-of.html (http://islamicdangerhistory.blogspot.com/2009/01/lebanon-arab-invasion-and-arrival-of.html)

11. Bambooweb: Middle ages

"The Islamic invasions of the 7th Century, conquering the southern and eastern ... Between the 5th and 8th centuries a completely new political and social ..."
www.bambooweb.com/articles/m/i/Middle_Ages.html (http://www.bambooweb.com/articles/m/i/Middle_Ages.html)

12. Afghanistan :: Historical beginnings (to the 7th century ad ...

"From the 5th through the 7th century many Chinese Buddhist pilgrims continued to travel through Afghanistan. The pilgrim Xüanzang wrote an important account ..."
www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/7798/Afghanistan/21381/Historical-beginnings-to-the-7th-century-ad (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/7798/Afghanistan/21381/Historical-beginnings-to-the-7th-century-ad)

13. ORB: The Online Reference Book for Medieval Studies

"Leo I, in the 5th century, and Gregory I, in the 6th century, .... two were the civil wars of the 3rd century, and the Islamic invasions of the 7th century. ..."
www.the-orb.net/textbooks/westciv/darkages.html (http://www.the-orb.net/textbooks/westciv/darkages.html)

14. On The Sources Of The Qur'anic Dhul-Qarnayn

"First Composed: 1st September 1999. Last Updated: 5th March 2006 .... The poem, however, was actually written in the seventh century, .... R. Morey, The Islamic Invasion: Confronting The World's Fastest Growing Religion, 1992, ..."
www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBhorned.html (http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBhorned.html)

15. Anti Essays : Free Essays on The Berbers And Islam Essay

"24 Jan 2008 ... It wasn't until the 7th century with the Arab invasion that the Berbers ... in the 5th century. The Arabs invaded circa 685, bringing Islam. ..."
www.antiessays.com/free-essays/855.html (http://www.antiessays.com/free-essays/855.html)

16. Middle Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"18 Jul 2006 ... The Islamic invasions of the 7th and 8th centuries, which conquered ... Between the 5th and 8th centuries a completely new political and social ..... see the period to the rise of Islam (7th century) as "late Classical". ..."
scorpio.cs.usfca.edu/wiki/index.php/Middle_Ages

17. Egypt: Petra, Part I: The History and Relationship with Egypt

"It continued to decline with the Muslim invasion of the 7th century, though the new ... that the area of Petra had already seen a large conversion to Islam, ..."
www.touregypt.net/featurestories/petra1.htm (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/petra1.htm)

18. Coptic Church@Everything2.com

"24 Nov 2005 ... Thus it was that the Islamic invasions of the seventh century were met with ... Nine Syrian monks brought monasticism to Ethiopia in the 5th century. ... Since the 7th century the Coptic Church has been so isolated from ..."
everything2.com/title/Coptic%2520Church

19. Byzantine Empire - Crystalinks

"Throughout the 5th century various invasions conquered the western half of the empire, ..... and Anatolia after the Islamic invasions of the 7th century. ..."
www.crystalinks.com/byzantine.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/byzantine.html)

20. Islam, The Coming Of Islam To South Asia

"arrival of the Muslims in the last years of the 7th century A.D. ... In the years after the collapse of the Gupta Empire at the end of the 5th century ..... had survived as a popular religion until the era of the Muslim invasions, ..."
http://history-world.org/islam6.htm

[picha]

You post in public in a website forum, you run the risk of someone analysing your posts. Deal with it.



I don't disagree. However, have you ever considered that Islam has been twisted by those with agendas?



Three questions: On what historical basis is your assertion? (please don't post copious amounts picked up from a random website, please be succinct) Have you ever opened the Qu'ran and read it? Is this what we should base your obvious extenstive wisdom on?



Many examples of Muhammed's kindness and humanity have been given to you and you've consistently refused to acknowledge one. I can only conclude you have a rather sinister agenda.



Have you seriously ever picked up an historical narrative which wasn't penned by some anti Islamic lunatic with nothing better to do with his time? I honestly doubt it. I could recommend some, and I would suggest you start with Karen Armstrong's biography on Muhammed.



Of course Islam is used as a controlling tool. It happens with every faith and every sect all over the world. You do nothing but highlight that. The problem is that because you do little else but read other people's opinions on Islam, you quite obviously hold little or no knowledge of it first hand. For those who do, your arguments are not only easily fallacious, but exceedingly ignorant.


Was mohammed being 'kind' when after the battle of banu quraiza he beheaded between 600 - 900 people?

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/052.sbt.html

[eternal_spirit]

Was mohammed being 'kind' to aisha when as a 53 year old he put his willy in her when she was 9?

I've even posted sources from Muslim's own texts and words claiming this to be true. Here it is again

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age


And you know what a so called good Muslim does? Follow in the footsteps of their prophet Mohammed. :( Read it it's all there in plain English.

[zarah]

Was mohammed being 'kind' to aisha when as a 53 year old he put his willy in her when she was 9?

Are you obsessed with appearing as foolish as possible? On and on you go, no points made, no arguments without fallacies...

[zarah]

I've even posted sources from Muslim's own texts and words claiming this to be true. Here it is again

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205151045/www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articles/fatawawom/marriage.html#age


And you know what a so called good Muslim does? Follow in the footsteps of their prophet Mohammed. :( Read it it's all there in plain English.

*sighs* A controlled person will always follow the doctrine to which he or she has been conditioned by. All you're illustrating in your posts, without independent opinion, is that organised religion has been corrupted, which, as any rational person will be aware, doesn't mean that the essence of that faith isn't one of altruism.

[eternal_spirit]

So far I've produced plenty of evidence from Islamic sources.
So you cannot label me disinfo BNP and all the other false labels you're trying to attach to me to defame my character.
Honestly some of you are in denial or out right liars.

Rergardless I'll have to say the majority of Muslims want to live in peace with none Muslims. I live in hope.

[adbasque]

An attack was carried out today on Cricket players in Pakistan, hummm those horrible Muslims again, damn! they did it again.

These Muslims are only taught to kill since the cradle, nothing to do with the Elite and all of their agents, it's the Muslims, the bad guys, the killers, and savages.

[zarah]

So far I've produced plenty of evidence from Islamic sources.
So you cannot label me disinfo BNP and all the other false labels you're trying to attach to me to defame my character.
Honestly some of you are in denial or out right liars.

Rergardless I'll have to say the majority of Muslims want to live in peace with none Muslims. I live in hope.

Who are you directing your comments to? Ive known you away from this forum so I think I have a good indication about the person you are. You aren't ignorant and you aren't racist..as far as I can make out, youre against the concept of external control through religion et al. The problem is you seem to spend copious hours of trawling through websites which suit your argument and posting them ad nauseum, rather than rationalising in your own words.

You have no problem defaming Muslims or people who don't agree with your rhetoric as liars or in denial I've noticed, far be it for us to be awarded the same consideration we should afford to you.

[zarah]

An attack was carried out today on Cricket players in Pakistan, hummm those horrible Muslims again, damn! they did it again.

These Muslims are only taught to kill since the cradle, nothing to do with the Elite and all of their agents, it's the Muslims, the bad guys, the killers, and savages.

I just watched a report on Five News. They weren't 'gunmen' they were 'terrorists', they were 'Muslims' before they've even been captured and they're already labelled as Islamists. It honestly plays out like a script.

[adbasque]

I just watched a report on Five News. They weren't 'gunmen' they were 'terrorists', they were 'Muslims' before they've even been captured and they're already labelled as Islamists. It honestly plays out like a script.

Indeed, just like the previous attacks, they were labelled before even the preliminary investigation took place lol.

If it weren't so sad I'll be laughing, about their constant fabrications, and yet people here can't see the link between lies that are unfolding on a daily basis against Islam and Muslims and their "so called truth".

They all agree that these attacks have nothing to do with either Muslims nor Islamic teachings, but they still try to pin everything that happens on Islam.

I thought the idea of being on forum like this one is to expose the real perpetrators and make people aware, but I don't see a difference in what the main stream media is saying and some comments and threads I read here.

No matter what evidence you bring to their attention, Islam and Muslims are still guilty.
They are more interested in what Islam did 700 years ago than the people who are killing them today, and enslaving them, but it's okay, these are just corrupt bankers, politicians, corporations and so on..

It doesn't matter if they poisning our food and our drinks, our air, we are more interested in blaming & hating someone else, and they still can't see the true manipulation.

They believe they just grew up hating all religions, they don't actually realise that they have been exposed to a real indoctrination, by pulling them away from any form of religion, they become easy for manipulation.

Instead of debating for example on how to get rid of these unlawful taxes that we are paying, no it's more important to simply stay here and paste crap written by the same people who don't want religion, because religion stops them from enslaving the masses.


I did mention it time and time again, why do these people hate Islam?

I'll give you just few examples

Islam forbids taxes (unlawful)
Islam forbids interests (unlawful)
Islam forbids Gambling (unlawful and family breaker)
Islam forbids sex at will (turns people into animals) as we see it today with all related diseases and social implications.
Islam forbids Alcohol (serious implication on our health and our social behaviour) we see the evidence that none can deny.

And I can go on like this for pages on things that Islam forbids and why.

Anyway I don't believe for one minute that these people are in any way inclined to learn, or to speak the truth.


You can read it in their nastiness towards Islam and especially when they mention the prophet's name, they can't mention him without sticking a label of him being this and that.

That shows either they have no idea who he really was, or it's done on purpose.

Anyway it's their loss not mine.

[zarah]

Islam forbids taxes (unlawful)
Islam forbids interests (unlawful)
Islam forbids Gambling (unlawful and family breaker)
Islam forbids sex at will (turns people into animals) as we see it today with all related diseases and social implications.
Islam forbids Alcohol (serious implication on our health and our social behaviour) we see the evidence that none can deny.

You can read it in their nastiness towards Islam and especially when they mention the prophet's name, they can't mention him without sticking a label of him being this and that.

That shows either they have no idea who he really was, or it's done on purpose.

Anyway it's their loss not mine.

I completely agree with you. Ive never thought of the demonisation of Islam for the reasons you've given, but it's a really good, constructive point.

I also think the reason why some people are so completely insulting towards Muhammed is because it's a tool to rile people into confrontations, which obviously detract from the original debate.

[adbasque]

I completely agree with you. Ive never thought of the demonisation of Islam for the reasons you've given, but it's a really good, constructive point.

I also think the reason why some people are so completely insulting towards Muhammed is because it's a tool to rile people into confrontations, which obviously detract from the original debate.

Spot on, to disrupt this forum from it's original aim, and people who come here, will find themselves debating about other things than the immediate threats we are all facing

Absolutely!

I did mention it in my previous posts and comments.
They know if they insult the prophet any Muslim will react and the main thing for them is to start an argument, which will result in insults and eventually people will be banned, and of course to divide people from takling their agenda.

If they divide people on every forum they go to, people will be devided instead of being united, they played this game for far too many years.

I urge people on this forum not to fall into their trap, Muslim or others we should stay focused and united.

If they insult Muslims Islam or anyone else for that matter we simply must NOT reply to them.

If they want to debate anything to do with the new world order, the Elite, the chemtrails, we will debate otherwise we must not reply to any insult.

I am one starting from today.
Thank you all

[eternal_spirit]

Geez why don't you two go down the Mosque and chat, or start another thread titled something like Muslim apologist we aint all bad chat. :)

[eternal_spirit]

Who are you directing your comments to? Ive known you away from this forum so I think I have a good indication about the person you are. You aren't ignorant and you aren't racist..as far as I can make out, youre against the concept of external control through religion et al. The problem is you seem to spend copious hours of trawling through websites which suit your argument and posting them ad nauseum, rather than rationalising in your own words.

You have no problem defaming Muslims or people who don't agree with your rhetoric as liars or in denial I've noticed, far be it for us to be awarded the same consideration we should afford to you.
Him. Waves at adbasque
Zarah I know you're nice girl and adbasque I imagine is a good man.

Yes some aspects of religions worrys me, for what the people involved have to suffer (Shariah the bad parts) and what problems it can cause others who are outside said relgions.

No point denying and covering this up, there's alot of suffering goes on inflicted on women because of Islam (no one can deny this Muslim women speak out and tell us this)

Links/sources back up what you type.

Some Islamic sects needs to reform take away the bad parts if they wanna be accepted more.

[adbasque]

Him. Waves at adbasque
Zarah I know you're nice girl and adbasque I imagine is a good man.

Yes some aspects of religions worrys me, for what the people involved have to suffer (Shariah the bad parts) and what problems it can cause others who are outside said relgions.

No point denying and covering this up, there's alot of suffering goes on inflicted on women because of Islam (no one can deny this Muslim women speak out and tell us this)

Links/sources back up what you type.

Some Islamic sects needs to reform take away the bad parts if they wanna be accepted more.

Yes nobody is denying that "Muslim" women are oppressed, NOT by Islam, show me where in Islam it says you MUST oppress your wife, sister, cousin and so on?

What about women in the west people who don't believe in no religion, how are you going to class them?
They are battered everyday even as we speak, this is true I am not making it up.

Why are you insisting that it is related to Islam?
where in Islam or Quoran it says you must make your woman submissive?
That is what we've been trying to tell you
women in Saudi Arabia are because the "Corrupt" government doesn't support women.

And before Islam people used to bury their daughters at birth or very young age, it it's true.

Islam did in fact save them and not only saved them but gave them their full rights.
Except in some parts of the world women are subject to cultural, "CULTURAL"
oppression.
Let's take an example, in India they used to burn women with their dead husbands, has it anything to do with Islam? no
I have said this to you time and time again, and that's why we keep repeating to you what is true and what it isn't.

If you ask me if most Muslim countries are corrupt, my answer would be yes, but the answer doesn't stop here.
Why are they corrupt?
By whom?
That is what I have been telling you to find out and then you can take a rational judgement.
Every single Muslim or arab country has a government that is corrupt to the bones.

And I am speaking from experience I have lived from the middle east to north Africa I know what I am talking about.

It was done on purpose, on one hand, the sheeple in the west would see those countries as bad, as corrupt and savages and so on, and on the other hand, they believe that they are truly live in democracy.

Which is another word you need to check out my friend :)

Demo = demon
Cracy greek word for rule.
Demon rule.

if you look at the official explanation of democracy you will probably get something like.
Self ruling or something stupid like this, but the truth is.

Democracy is a smoke screen.
When for decades the western population were bombarded with propaganda that everything around the world is really bad except in the west, so people for generations believed that they lived in some sort of fair society while in fact it was a big fat LIE.

and the Tell Lie Vision (TV) is the biggest weapon ever invented, for years and years Muslim scholars were warning people about getting rid of the television.
In Islam always says, that you MUST respect the laws of the land even if you disagree with them, or leave that country.

One last thing, for a an Islamic sharia to take over Britain, it has to take over Europe first :)
So don't worry, and Sharia will only be used for Muslims if they wanted it, nothing will be forced on anyone, if it's there is because Muslims asked for it, just like the Jews have their laws here in Britain.
But that doesn't bother you, because it was done and nobody cried "Wolf"
Can't you see the double standard here?
Here you are

[zarah]

Demo means people, but I can see what you're getting at.

The issue is that some people can't separate culture and religion, both within Islam and outside it.

In the Qur'an it states that women of the home, i.e. mothers, should be put on a pedestal. Sura Al Nisa literally means The Women, and talks about a woman's right in the home, within a justice structure and within society holistically.

There are aguments made that Islam subjugates women, but I disagree. It teaches that women and men, as well as belonging to different genders, have differing strengths and weaknesses and therefore have, although symbiotic, different roles within society. Women are inherent nurturers and are meant care for the home and children, while men protect and provide for their family.

Of course, many cultures are substantively misogynist, and Islam is used as a tool of control against women in these societies, but I would argue that this is a symptom of Islam's teachings being perverted or ignored entirely, not because Islam directly advocates the subjugation of women.

This culture is entirely based on a misogynist ideology in which women are judged predominantly on their outward appearance, rather than the contribution to society they may be capable of. Our justice system is geared towards a masculine perspective and implemented by men, seemingly for the benefit of men (one example of this is that until the mid 90's rape within a marriage wasn't recognised in law.) Our media, our executive and our educational system function to empower men further, rather that allow women equitable rights. Even our clothing designers and manufacturers work in a way which has a negative impact on women. Do you have any clue how many women live with some form of eating disorder simply because of society's pressure to look a certain way and be a certain size? I'm a size 12, which is two dress sizes lower than the average, yet when I shop (which is often) my size is right at the back of the rack, and is often the biggest size stocked. Emblazoned on the front pages of gossip magazine on a weekly basis are photos of an actress or singer who's put on a little weight so is a size 12 and is castigated for being 'big' - Jessica Simpson comes to mind.


For these reasons, I find it completely galling, that a man, who has absolutely zero experience of how it feels to live in this society as a female, should decide to use empathy for Islamic women simply as another tool to castigate a religion that he pertinatly has little understanding of.

[adbasque]

Demo means people, but I can see what you're getting at.

Yes I know what demo as an abreviation of demography or population

But in reality it's demo for demon, it's at the individual's discretion to draw their own conclusion ;)

[adbasque]

In the Qur'an it states that women of the home, i.e. mothers, should be put on a pedestal. Sura Al Nisa literally means The Women, and talks about a woman's right in the home, within a justice structure and within society holistically.

There are aguments made that Islam subjugates women, but I disagree. It teaches that women and men, as well as belonging to different genders, have differing strengths and weaknesses and therefore have, although symbiotic, different roles within society. Women are inherent nurturers and are meant care for the home and children, while men protect and provide for their family.

Of course, many cultures are substantively misogynist, and Islam is used as a tool of control against women in these societies, but I would argue that this is a symptom of Islam's teachings being perverted or ignored entirely, not because Islam directly advocates the subjugation of women.
Not only it states that a woman as a mother and her strength at home, but as the backbone of society.

What they don't get is, the same people who started the so called women's freedom and revolution, it was openly admitted recently that the CIA started this movement back in the late 40s early 50s, one has to ask himself one question?

Well the answer is quiete obvious.

Imagine for one minute you have one parent working, right?
the state has only one person per family to tax, but if they get the two parents to work, not only they have both parents to tax

also they will have access to their children and raise them as future slaves with ease.

But people don't see it like this, and not only that, they also enslave women by promoting all sorts of things, such as you are a free woman, therefore you must change your dressing code.

Be naked, be unfaithful to your husband, be wild, spend more time in bars while your children and husband are at home, how to brea the families, and by the same blow, they know they don't have to do much with men.

If there's a woman half dressed in a bar they will of course approach her, encouraging adultery and that is why today we have more broken families than ever before.

Now they are trying to legalise prostitution, this way they can collect more money from the prostitute and it will open doors to more adulterers.

What they want basically is quite clear, is a broken society, turn people into animals.

If you look back there is a psychological way of doing it.

Let's take few examples here:

Everything that was forbiden or "Illegal" at some point now it's legal and not only legal but promoted.

For instance

Alcohol was illegal especially in the USA they were wars for over 3 decades and now it's been advertised
Gambling was illegal now it's been advertised and not only advertised on the Television but, you get it everytime you turn on your computer, almost every other channel on TV is a gambling channel.

Some people here are worried about mosques being built, what they don't see is how many casinos that are being built in the UK today not to mention USA, they have a whole capital for gambling.

But that doesn't worry them, because gambling is only coming to take their money, their possessions, their belonging, their houses.

But Islam is bad, because it prevents you from ending up on the street losing your home, your family and your dignity.

in few words, the same people who raised the so called "women's" revolution don't give a damn about a woman or a man, the same people see a woman nothing but a piece of flesh and second citizen.

They don't say it openly of course, but they have ways to make them believe they are free and independant, BS!

Now a lot women would love to stay at home and spend their times with their kids, to see them grow and spend quality time with them but it's so hard!

Can any clever clogs tell me where the hell is her freedom?
she leaves her home in hurry every morning and come back at night everynight to see her kids just before they go to bed and in some cases she doesn't get to see them.

And then we wonder why more and more people grow up completely screwed??

Well if they really wanted to seek the truth it is right there in front of them.

[eternal_spirit]

so why is it u ALWAYS ignore/dodge the reply i give to ur posts? is it because u no ur a liar and iv caught u out for the 20th time? give it up saddo, ur such a loser... BOTH points u made were far from the truth and iv explained why..

And adbasque ur spot on dude this guys defo a disinfo agent and iv mentioned that many times before.. can admin please take a closer look at him.

Caught me out LOL! Prove it go on show me where?
Denying your own scriptures and facts about Islam which makes you a liar.
Oh please, who am I working for this time:rolleyes:? Who pays most the Jews or the Arabs?, oh maybe they're all the same people anyway having some tribal dispute that spread like a virus across the planet.

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=618837#post618837)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers. In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_ambulance_ap150.jpg 15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured


According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya". :mad:

[eternal_spirit]

more propaganda and lies, why do u do it ffs its like u lie in every post about islam...

mosque’ seeks to convert all Britain - it holds 12000 and its going to convert the whole of britain?? :eek: use ur common sense u thick twat.
its a 12000 capacity mosque for people to go and pray..just like the other mosques people go to pray in


where the fook does it say tax payers are footing the bill?? why are u trying to stir shit?

If you had bothered to read my post in the first place I said look at the readers comments on the link! All you had to do was scroll down and click read comments doh!

here look readers comments below

This country is was built on christian judao laws and still has achristian majority, so why should the british tax payer have to fund this mosque?plans for this mosque should not be allowed to be passed,so come on all you tax payers stop this mosque from being built. ian, staffordshire.
IAN BANNER, LEEK, staffordshire


Tax payers funding this mosque is ridiculous, and not something that the British will let happen without a fight. Emma, Hereford, UK


A £100 million of tax payers money to fund religious beliefs that I don't believe in. Why not spend the money on real stuff?

I've been waiting 18 months to get my painful wisdom tooth out, it would probably only cost £2K but I can't get the NHS to do it (I think its because they don't have enough resources / money).

Is there anyway of opting out of religious tax contributions if I'm a non-believer, so that I can use that money on something that would be useful for me?
Ian, manchester, uk
end quotes
................................


A Muslim group that wants to open a giant £100 million mosque in London has set its sights on “winning the whole of Britain to Islam”.
Tablighi Jamaat aims to build an Islamic complex near to the site of the 2012 Olympic stadium, with a mosque for 12,000 people, by far the largest religious building in Britain.



.............................


I got a better idea why don't you build it in an Islamic country!
Look at the double standards and hypocrisy and I'm not even religious!



Reminder just a few examples from the ever growing lists.

Saudi Arabia - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bibles are illegal. Churches are illegal. Easter celebrations are illegal. It is punishable by death for a non-mulsim to enter the “holy” muslim cities of Medina and Mecca.
Yemen - Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims and forbids conversions. The Government does not allow the building of new non-Muslim places of worship.

[noewhan]

A recent vid from Von Helton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hJ_hAxvMlU

[eternal_spirit]

About the MEGA mosque. read that it's planned for 40,000 but may hold 70,000 people.

[amaralsright]

First of all, there is and has been an ongoing debate (within Islam, by Muslim scholars and historians) about the age of Aisha (the supposedly 9 year old wife of Mohammed) at the time of marriage . Some suggest, based on various readings, that she was more likely 16-19. Others still say that the marriage itself would not have been consumated (as we say) until Aisha was physically able to handle the burden of being wife.

There is NO debate.

According to traditional Muslim sources Aisha was 6 when she was married but 9 when Muhammed had sex with her (wow, that was nice of him to control himself for so long). Muhammed was 53.

What you really mean is that modern western Muslims - embarrassed about the claims of peodophila - are scratching around looking for any reason they can to cloud this issue.

Maulana Muhammad Ali in the 20th century was the FIRST muslim scholar to challenge the Hadith on this matter.

[adbasque]

There is NO debate.

According to traditional Muslim sources Aisha was 6 when she was married but 9 when Muhammed had sex with her (wow, that was nice of him to control himself for so long). Muhammed was 53.

What you really mean is that modern western Muslims - embarrassed about the claims of peodophila - are scratching around looking for any reason they can to cloud this issue.

Maulana Muhammad Ali in the 20th century was the FIRST muslim scholar to challenge the Hadith on this matter.

Bullshit..

She was 9 the first time he went around her house after he saw her he asked to go back outside to play, she was 9, and they did not consumate their mariage until she was old enough to be a wife.

Yes she was about 18 at the time and I don't know your Maulak Muhammad Ali, I am speaking from various historians, and scholars including Aisha's testimony about her life with the Prophet (PBUH) so don't talk nonsense please.

It has nothing to do with being embarassed with paedophilia for that matter Islam has changed all that, because girls were getting married before their puberty, and Islam has addressed and resolved that problem.

But his wife Aisha was not 9 it is wrong and false statements.

[tannah]

Not only it states that a woman as a mother and her strength at home, but as the backbone of society.

What they don't get is, the same people who started the so called women's freedom and revolution, it was openly admitted recently that the CIA started this movement back in the late 40s early 50s, one has to ask himself one question?

Well the answer is quiete obvious.

Imagine for one minute you have one parent working, right?
the state has only one person per family to tax, but if they get the two parents to work, not only they have both parents to tax

also they will have access to their children and raise them as future slaves with ease.

But people don't see it like this, and not only that, they also enslave women by promoting all sorts of things, such as you are a free woman, therefore you must change your dressing code.

Be naked, be unfaithful to your husband, be wild, spend more time in bars while your children and husband are at home, how to brea the families, and by the same blow, they know they don't have to do much with men.

If there's a woman half dressed in a bar they will of course approach her, encouraging adultery and that is why today we have more broken families than ever before.

Now they are trying to legalise prostitution, this way they can collect more money from the prostitute and it will open doors to more adulterers.

What they want basically is quite clear, is a broken society, turn people into animals.

If you look back there is a psychological way of doing it.

Let's take few examples here:

Everything that was forbiden or "Illegal" at some point now it's legal and not only legal but promoted.

For instance

Alcohol was illegal especially in the USA they were wars for over 3 decades and now it's been advertised
Gambling was illegal now it's been advertised and not only advertised on the Television but, you get it everytime you turn on your computer, almost every other channel on TV is a gambling channel.

Some people here are worried about mosques being built, what they don't see is how many casinos that are being built in the UK today not to mention USA, they have a whole capital for gambling.

But that doesn't worry them, because gambling is only coming to take their money, their possessions, their belonging, their houses.

But Islam is bad, because it prevents you from ending up on the street losing your home, your family and your dignity.

in few words, the same people who raised the so called "women's" revolution don't give a damn about a woman or a man, the same people see a woman nothing but a piece of flesh and second citizen.

They don't say it openly of course, but they have ways to make them believe they are free and independant, BS!

Now a lot women would love to stay at home and spend their times with their kids, to see them grow and spend quality time with them but it's so hard!

Can any clever clogs tell me where the hell is her freedom?
she leaves her home in hurry every morning and come back at night everynight to see her kids just before they go to bed and in some cases she doesn't get to see them.

And then we wonder why more and more people grow up completely screwed??

Well if they really wanted to seek the truth it is right there in front of them.

It really amazes me how many excuses can exist in order to cover up old narrow-minded, and sometimes vile religious beliefs. I guess the taliban are bombing schools in order to stop females getting an education, for the women's own good right? Nothing to do with perverted male ego then?

[solarwindspirit]

A recent vid from Von Helton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hJ_hAxvMlU


I think it's more media trash myself
for someone who wants demographic
genocide myself

[solarwindspirit]

Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=618837#post618837)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers. In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_ambulance_ap150.jpg 15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured


According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya". :mad:

oh, so they are into burning women
too just like the freemasons
with the founding of this country
oh my the cult must be everywhere

[solarwindspirit]

You post in public in a website forum, you run the risk of someone analysing your posts. Deal with it.



I don't disagree. However, have you ever considered that Islam has been twisted by those with agendas?



Three questions: On what historical basis is your assertion? (please don't post copious amounts picked up from a random website, please be succinct) Have you ever opened the Qu'ran and read it? Is this what we should base your obvious extenstive wisdom on?



Many examples of Muhammed's kindness and humanity have been given to you and you've consistently refused to acknowledge one. I can only conclude you have a rather sinister agenda.



Have you seriously ever picked up an historical narrative which wasn't penned by some anti Islamic lunatic with nothing better to do with his time? I honestly doubt it. I could recommend some, and I would suggest you start with Karen Armstrong's biography on Muhammed.



Of course Islam is used as a controlling tool. It happens with every faith and every sect all over the world. You do nothing but highlight that. The problem is that because you do little else but read other people's opinions on Islam, you quite obviously hold little or no knowledge of it first hand. For those who do, your arguments are not only easily fallacious, but exceedingly ignorant.

There is no religion that is divine
to be divine you have to organic

[amaralsright]

Bullshit..

She was 9 the first time he went around her house after he saw her he asked to go back outside to play, she was 9, and they did not consumate their mariage until she was old enough to be a wife..

???

It's EXPLICITLY written in the earliest Islamic sources.

Just because modern Muslims are embarrassed by it and are now inventing ever new ways to deny it doesn't make it a FACT that Muslims were taught this for over a thousand years and that in fact it is still taught.

[nicolaj]

Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234


'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Sahih Muslim 8:3311

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."


Abu-Dawud 2:2116
Here we see that Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9 years old. Is this age confirmed by any other (Sahih) ahadith? Yes it is:

Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:65


Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud 41:4915

Apologists will insist that the term 'consummate the marriage' means 'nikah' , not sex. This is in spite of the Abu-Dawud hadith Vol. 2, #2116 translation that explicitly states 'intercourse' . Be that as it may, does 'consummate the marriage' mean sex? Here is proof that it does:

There has been some confusion about the definition of the word "consummate". In Sahih Bukhari, vol. 7, #64, the root word used is "dakhala". From the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273, it means "to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman".

Ex-Muslim.com - EVIDENCE THAT AISHA WAS 9 WHEN HER MARRIAGE TO MUHAMMAD WAS CONSUMMATED
But how do we know that at the age of nine Aisha was still pre-pubescent? Here is the evidence from Sunan Abu-Dawud, Vol. 3, #4914 (This hadith is also repeated in Sunan Nasa’i):

Possession of Dolls By Little Girls:

On the authority of Aisha (RA), that she said: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) returned from the battle of Tabook or Khaibar (the narrator of the hadith was in doubt about whether he was told "Tabook or Khaibar."). There was a curtain covering her 'sahwah' (chamber or small room in front of the house). The wind blew a side of the curtain and uncovered Aisha's dolls. He (SAW) said: What is this, O Aisha? She said: My dolls. The he (SAW) saw amongst them a horse with two wings from scraps of cloth. He (SAW) said: What is this which I see amongst them (amongst the dolls)? She said: A horse. He asked: What is upon it? She said: Two wings. He (SAW) asked (in astonishment): A horse with two wings? She said: Didn't you hear that Sulaiman (Solomon - AS) had horses with wings? She said: Then he (SAW) laughed until I saw his molar teeth. [3]

[Abu Daawood, An-Nasaa'iee as-Sunan al-Kubraa, Albani (ra) says the chain of narrators of an-Nasaa'ee is authentic (Saheeh). As for the chain of narrators of Abu Daawood, Albani (ra) has also declared it to be authentic (saheeh)]
Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-'Adheem Aabaadee, in his Sharh (explanation) of Sunan Abu-Dawud, says:

This hadith and the one before it (Hadith #20) is used as an evidence of permissibility of possession of dolls and toys for the purpose of little girls playing with them. This (permission) is a special exception from the general prohibition of possession of images (suwar). This position has been stated with certainty by al-Qaadee 'Iyaad, and he has quoted it as the opinion of the Jumhoor (Majority of Scholars). He also said that the Jumhoor has allowed the sale of toys (dolls) for little girls, in order to train and prepare them from childhood for their household affairs and the raising of their children.
According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah. The battle of Khaibar took place in Muharram-Safar 7 AH. The siege of Tabuk took place in Rajab 9 AH. Therefore, to be generous, I will accept the Khaibar explanation and not the later, Tabuk explanation.

It is generally accepted that Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of 6 in the year 3 BH. This is confirmed by reports that the marriage was consummated in Shawwal, which came seven months after the Prophet's hijra from Makkah to al-Medinah.

Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-'Adheem Aabaadee

[amaralsright]

Seriously.. I'd love to see a major Franko Zeffirelli "Jesus of Nazareth" type TV series on the life of Muhammed.

It's the best way to get people up to speed on this man.

The mass beheadings could be done with CGI obviously... and because of the sex it would have to be after the watershed.

[solarwindspirit]

It's really unfortunate that the money men destroyed Islam for everybody. It was really easy for them to do, though. They funded and armed every reactionary militant group they could find.-- the peaceful people like the B'ahais and the Sufis were instantly killed off. Now it is just a militant/hard rules/reactionary theocracy found over there and growing. This was how the Money men got to loot the oil, build a prison for anyone growing up in Islam, and create a fierce growing future enemy for the West. Just like they want.

I also see the Money Men have been doing their job in Great Britain working this Islam-the-enemy card and encourageing irreconsilable conflicts between two sick cultures. The same thing is happening here in parts of the U.S. So eventually we will fight and kill each other. Just like they want.

nice. . .yeah that is the way it's been played out today. . .manipulation. . .
which noone should cover for. . .their hands are nets traps and snares for souls. . .right down to chemtrails nuisances

[eternal_spirit]

Islam: Killing for Honor ..."gouged out her eyes, cut her tongue off and put her remains in a plastic bag before burning her" (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/islam-killing-for-honor-gouged-out-her-eyes-cut-her-tongue-off-and-put-her-remains-in-a-plastic-bag-.html) Turkey: Killing for Honour (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/episode-guide/series-2009/episode-3) (30 minute programme) Obama says "respect" the religion.
Unreported World travels to Turkey to investigate honour killings, which have now reached record levels with more than 200 girls and women killed in the past year alone. The programme highlights a chilling new development in which a new law outlawing honour killings may have led to a huge increase in girls being forced to commit suicide instead.
Watch the video - read it all here (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/islam-killing-for-honor-gouged-out-her-eyes-cut-her-tongue-off-and-put-her-remains-in-a-plastic-bag-.html) and comprehensive coverage on honor killings at Atlas here. (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/honor_killings_islam_misogyny/)
(http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/episode-guide/series-2009/episode-3)

Sharia Law.

[...]

He says women can be killed for violating the rules of honour. When a woman is accused of dishonour, a family council will decide her fate. He says that honour killings are really effective in sending out a strong message to everybody. Local women tell Unreported World that they live in constant fear and that their brothers would beat them over mere rumours.
The team meets Husna, who is willing to talk openly about an honour killing that happened less than five weeks previously. She says she suspects her niece's new husband was killings are common and three have happened in the area recently.
Moving on to a village close to the Iranian border, the team hears about Nazime Alir, who was 21 years old when she was murdered. Her father-in-law tells Navai that his son gouged out her eyes, cut her tongue off and put her remains in a plastic bag before burning her. Nearly all the men in the village say they would kill their wives and daughters for honour - life without honour is not worth living.
Until recently, under Turkish law honour killers could get a reduced sentence by claiming provocation. However, four years ago, as part of Turkey's campaign to join the European Union, it introduced a mandatory life sentence for the crime. But the change in the law hasn't reduced the killings. Instead, as Unreported World reveals, it appears to have given rise to a sinister new twist.
The team travels to the city of Batman, nicknamed 'suicide city' because in the last few years http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef01156e743b84970c-300wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef01156e743b84970c-popup) hundreds of women and girls have committed suicide. Like other areas of the country, female suicides rocketed after the change in the law. Batman's chief prosecutor tells Unreported World that he believes many of the suicides in the town are forced, but that they're almost impossible to investigate. Those women who escape the attempt flee into hiding.
One young woman, Elif, claims that when she was 18 years old, her parents wanted to force her into marriage. When she refused, she claims her family told her that if she didn't marry him, she would have to kill herself. She says her father told her if he, or her brother, was forced to kill her they would go to prison so she should think of them and kill herself. She said she considered doing it because she loved her father so much, but she realized she didn't want to die. Instead, she ran away.
Ending up in Istanbul, the team finds that even the most modernised city in Turkey hasn't escaped the tradition. According to a government report, it now has one of the highest levels of honour killings in the country, with one happening every week.
First Ramita meets the relatives of a young bride called Sever, who is believed to have been killed to spare her husband’s blushes after he was unable to have sex

Honour killings in Islam (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/honor_killings/2009/04/women-in-islam-terror-in-the-home.html)


Alot more at link above ^^^

[eternal_spirit]

My point is, this was not some deranged lunatic. This was a"good" Muslim who followed the book.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/596-Aasiya_Hassan.standalone.prod_affiliate.50.jpg (http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/579324.html)
He cut her head off for disobeying him
District Attorney Frank A Sedita III said "Obviously, this is the worst form of domestic violence possible." The man is clueless.
Davod points out, " This type of decrepitude could be called "dhimmestic violence." We should not be surprised - here's a so- called moderate who either in the heat of the moment of when the shit hits the fan reverts to his true baser undeniable unavoidable islamic instinct and all the moderation goes out the window, it was all a veneer (or what you might call a veneereal disease). The messages overt and subliminal that he absorbed in his youth stayed just under the surface, hovering, maybe just itching to get out. Adds fuel to one's suspicions about O's madrassa youth and how it may be influencing him. Scary."
Davod is right, lessons in his youth stayed with him even as he became more sophisticated and subtle.
Over at Jihadwatch: (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024838.php)
And now for the obligatory mainstream media exoneration of Islam:
It would be a mistake to link an act of domestic violence to the couple’s religion, he added.
“There is no place for domestic violence in our religion — none,” Qazi said. “Islam would 100 percent condemn it.”
The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences has determined that over ninety percent of Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually — for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. Others were punished for failing to give birth to a male child. Dominating their women by violence is a prerogative Muslim men cling to tenaciously. In Spring 2005, when the East African nation of Chad tried to institute a new family law that would outlaw wife beating, Muslim clerics led resistance to the measure as un-Islamic.
Why do things like this happen?
Because Islamic clerics worldwide have spoken approvingly of wife-beating.
In 2004, an imam in Spain, Mohammed Kamal Mustafa, was found guilty of “inciting violence on the basis of gender” for his book Women in Islam, which discussed the methods and limits of administering “physical punishment” of women.
Muslim men bring this religiously sanctioned violence with them when they immigrate to the West, even to the United States. The prominent American Muslim leader Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), has said that “in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife…The Koran is very clear on this issue.”
In 1984, Sheikh Yousef Qaradhawi, who is one of the most respected and influential Islamic clerics in the world, wrote: “If the husband senses that feelings of disobedience and rebelliousness are rising against him in his wife, he should try his best to rectify her attitude by kind words, gentle persuasion, and reasoning with her. If this is not helpful, he should sleep apart from her, trying to awaken her agreeable feminine nature so that serenity may be restored, and she may respond to him in a harmonious fashion. If this approach fails, it is permissible for him to beat her lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive parts.”
Why do they say such things?
Because the permission to beat one’s wife is rooted in the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an, and Islamic tradition.
The Qur'an says: “Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them…” (4:34)
The Islamic prophet Muhammad was once told that “women have become emboldened towards their husbands,” whereupon he “gave permission to beat them” (Sunan Abu Dawud, book 11, no. 2141). He was unhappy with the women who complained, not with their husbands who beat them.
Muhammad even struck his favorite wife, Aisha. One night, thinking she was asleep, he went out. Aisha surreptitiously followed him. When he found out what she had done, he hit her: “He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?” (Sahih Muslim, book 4, no. 2127).
Nothing in there about beheading, no. But the man was talking about domestic violence.
Why does this matter? Because as long as no one has the courage to call Muslim leaders like Qazi to account for statements like this, and ask them about the clear justifications for domestic violence that do appear in Islamic tradition, what can possibly be done to combat the prevalence of domestic violence in Islamic communities? Ignoring the Islamic justifications for domestic violence harms Muslim women.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/12/23/princelss_sahari.jpg
(http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/23/princelss_sahari.jpg)
Sahar Daftary UK (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/12/modern-muslims.html)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011278dbd8c428a4-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011278dbd8c428a4-popup)
Lidia Motylska, 19, Leeds
(http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/11/islam-another-s.html)

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/08/said_sisters1.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/08/said_sisters1.jpg)
Amina and Sarah (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/01/said-girl-i-am.html), the Said sisters - raped and murdered by their Muslim father - still at large (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/05/yasir-said-trac.html).

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/12/said_2.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/12/said_2.jpg)

Amina & Sarah Said. "Please don't tell my Father!" (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/01/please-dont-tel.html)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168663785970c-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168663785970c-popup)
Sandeela Kanwal, 25, (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/honor-killng-mu.html)was found dead on her bedroom floor last July. Her father told police he strangled his daughter with a bungee cord because she wanted a divorce.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168663b28970c-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168663b28970c-popup)
Morsal Obeidi (http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090213-17415.html) (stabbed to death 23 times by her brother - for "turning away from her family").

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/hatun_src.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/hatun_src.jpg)
Hatin Surucu (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,grossbild-437770-344374,00.html) Germany Muslim brothers gunned her down for adopting Western ways.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/banazmahmood_468x351.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/banazmahmood_468x351.jpg)
Banaz Mahmood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZXU_xXUxXI) UK
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/aqsa_parvez.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/aqsa_parvez.jpg)
Aqsa Parvez (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2007/12/11/girl-16-dies-after-hijab-dispute-with-father.aspx)Canada -- lies in an unmarked grave despite our relentless ongoing efforts to right that terrible wrong. (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/02/aqsa-and-atlas-in-the-news-.html)

[eternal_spirit]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/riaz_girls.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/riaz_girls.jpg)
Caneze Riaz, 39, and her four daughters, Sayrah, 16, Sophia, 15, Alicia, 10, and Hannah, 3 (http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/2250-UK-Muslim-Honor-Killing-Wife-Daughters-Burned-Alive.html) UK (Muhammad Riaz killed his wife and four daughters by throwing petrol over them as they slept and igniting it.)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/honour_killing_sweden.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/honour_killing_sweden.jpg)
Sweden (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.islam-watch.org/Assets/Honour_Killing_Sweden.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.islam-watch.org/ExMuslims/Honour-killings-in-Europe.htm&h=130&w=202&sz=17&hl=en&start=83&sig2=E4WyKicBaImfep0z1nr6iw&um=1&tbnid=tJhpzZpYSsYMyM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=105&ei=mG-CR-rIO5-4erywpUA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%2BJordan%26start%3D72 %26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa% 3DN)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168666f7c970c-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168666f7c970c-popup)
Uzma Rahan, 32,and sons, Adam 11, and Abbas, eight, and six-year-old daughter, Henna (http://infidelsarecool.com/2007/10/22/honor-killing-totally-justified/)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/iraq.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/iraq.jpg)
10 women beheaded in Iraq (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.islam-watch.org/Assets/Honour_Killing_Sweden.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.islam-watch.org/ExMuslims/Honour-killings-in-Europe.htm&h=130&w=202&sz=17&hl=en&start=83&sig2=E4WyKicBaImfep0z1nr6iw&um=1&tbnid=tJhpzZpYSsYMyM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=105&ei=mG-CR-rIO5-4erywpUA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%2BJordan%26start%3D72 %26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa% 3DN)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/samira_nazir_210.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/samira_nazir_210.jpg)
Samaira Nazir (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/documentaries/media/an_samira_nazir_210.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/9/4/34941/75952&h=130&w=210&sz=7&hl=en&start=96&sig2=YW_2a1GjWc8JQeEks31LsA&um=1&tbnid=NH--sEfIEILchM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=106&ei=lHCCR4zJAqPgeKuxgEE&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%2BJordan%26start%3D90 %26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa% 3DN) UK
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/hina_salem.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/hina_salem.jpg)
Hina Salem (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/aug2006/recorte_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.indymedia.ie/article/78088&h=200&w=200&sz=6&hl=en&start=121&sig2=I4CGjEOwH9gcdRzfNG_RFg&um=1&tbnid=LRblR7mCuCjI-M:&tbnh=104&tbnw=104&ei=P3GCR9ugKaOsed3J0N8D&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%2BJordan%26start%3D10 8%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa %3DN)Italy ("Mohammed Saleem cut his daughter’s throat because she refused an arranged marriage and instead wanted to integrate into Italian society".)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/dayem422_2.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/dayem422_2.jpg)
Methal Dayem (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.newsnet5.com/Images/Screengrabs/dayem422.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.newsnet5.com/news/337138/detail.html&h=150&w=200&sz=7&hl=en&start=60&sig2=6p89N1CuTeEBG9JWH6a28A&um=1&tbnid=gSJ1DbXg98a3CM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&ei=uHSCR8GGIZSUeKeslFY&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3 D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN), a 22-year-old Cleveland State student, USA.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/sazan_bajezabdullah.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/sazan_bajezabdullah.jpg)
Sazan Bajez-Abdullah (http://shieldofachilles.blogspot.com/2007/10/because-women-here-have-so-many-rights.html)Germany
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/rudayena_jemael.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/rudayena_jemael.jpg)
Rudayena Jemael (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.flickr.com/31/64554580_cf69ab9e82_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hugozoom.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html&h=240&w=339&sz=23&hl=en&start=124&sig2=dSN-Ulcd7sFY8JGRUQpgow&um=1&tbnid=0zkLlvSEtLiZkM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=119&ei=aHaCR9noL6OseejJ0N8D&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D108%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) with her son and killer Salim Israel.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/heshu_yunis_2.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/heshu_yunis_2.jpg)
Hesha Yones (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/honor_killings_islam_misogyny/%21/3%20of%20the%20women%20murdered%20in%20Jordan%20ar e%20a%20result%20of%20Islamic%20%22honor%22%20kill ing.%20And%20yet%20a%20could%20not%20find%20one%20 picture%20of%20a%20murdered%20girl%20in%20Jordan.) UK (hacked to death)

[eternal_spirit]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/burned_alive_soaud.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/burned_alive_soaud.jpg)
Burned Alive (http://www.oheditions.com/spip.php?article4) A Victim of the Law of Men Souad
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/ibtihaz_hasoun.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/ibtihaz_hasoun.jpg)
Ibtihaz Hasoun (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Murdered_woman.jpg/180px-Murdered_woman.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing&h=129&w=180&sz=8&hl=en&start=228&sig2=-KBBhDB8emnlVmuFgKstMA&um=1&tbnid=tPE7NlggmARO4M:&tbnh=72&tbnw=101&ei=NnKCR5TZOaSaea3w2UQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%2BJordan%26start%3D21 6%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa %3DN)Israeli Arab
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/fadimasahindal.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/fadimasahindal.jpg)
Fadime Sahindal (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp3.blogger.com/_df4kVFj1mWM/RbZ-Fyr0kNI/AAAAAAAAAFA/tBYTJI_6ao0/s320/Fadima%2BSahindal.jpg&imgrefurl=http://jeffweintraub.blogspot.com/2007/01/fadime-sahindal-honor-killing-culture.html&h=255&w=237&sz=15&hl=en&start=104&sig2=mTnfRBBmN70NkNeGl4ZU8Q&um=1&tbnid=OX8r-mXCngPoRM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=103&ei=1XWCR4mPN6CUeuDdtUg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D90%26ndsp%3 D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) Sweden
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/zahida.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/zahida.jpg)
Zahida Peeveen (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eruditiononline.com/01.04/graphics/honor_killings_zahida_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eruditiononline.com/01.04/zahida_story.htm&h=136&w=171&sz=4&hl=en&start=117&sig2=v-m-_N4wocLRmrtc5AFEeg&um=1&tbnid=PL7-nAT8wVgGhM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=100&ei=aHaCR9noL6OseejJ0N8D&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D108%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)at 29, before the malicious attack by her husband. At the time of the attempted honor killing, she was six months pregnant. After attack: WARNING GRAPHIC (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eruditiononline.com/01.04/graphics/honor_killings_zahida_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eruditiononline.com/01.04/zahida_story.htm&h=136&w=171&sz=4&hl=en&start=117&sig2=v-m-_N4wocLRmrtc5AFEeg&um=1&tbnid=PL7-nAT8wVgGhM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=100&ei=aHaCR9noL6OseejJ0N8D&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D108%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/ghazalakhan1.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/ghazalakhan1.jpg)
Ghazala Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazala_Khan) Denmark
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168695651970c-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011168695651970c-popup)
The killing of Ghazala Khan in Denmark by her brother may be the only instance where an 'honour' killing has been photographed while being perpetrated. This picture was captured on cell phone camera and shows the woman's brother aiming the gun at his sister, lying on the ground. Her fiancee, also seen, was wounded, but survived. The killing was planned by her entire family, and Pakistani taxi drivers were used as spies to spot her and alert her family.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/rojdagezginci.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/rojdagezginci.jpg)
As a 13-year-old girl in Turkey, Rojda (http://can.mailarchive.ca/politics/2006-10/5280.html) was raped, then forced to marry her
rapist under Islamic law. Her face was mutilated by her "husband's" family
when she refused to prostitute herself after he was imprisoned for raping
another child.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/duakhalil17.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/duakhalil17.jpg)
Dua Khalil, 17 (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html) Iraq
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/rim.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/rim.jpg)
Rim Abu Ghanem (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D110406/rim.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml%3FitemNo%3D705184&h=160&w=150&sz=6&hl=en&start=356&sig2=kx0BUUUgZDD-4bHdAJi1Xg&um=1&tbnid=MsVmCEdVG6wJNM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=92&ei=aJSCR_2jKIe0evuynVQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHONOR%2BKILLING%26start%3D342%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) 19 (Dr. Suliman Abu Ghanem, a 33-year-old pediatrician at Assaf Harofeh Hospital, who along with his three brothers decided to murder his sister for refusing an arranged marriage) Israel
1/3 of the women murdered (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/6f6d5166f24330a0e8edcb79796ca5cc.htm)in Jordan are a result of Islamic "honor" killing. And yet I could not find one picture of a murdered girl in Jordan.
"It was a brutal scene. One victim's head was nearly cut clean off," an official is quoted as saying. (here) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3097728.stm)
And the thing is, this is the end - the final act, the culmination of the subjugation, oppression, violent abuse of women in Islam. The terror that precedes the murder is almost unimaginable. Living in fear, every day, living in fear of physical and mental abuse and still, standing up and living their own lives -- only to be murdered for it.
UPDATE:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/07/sabiaranirpy_468x523.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/07/sabiaranirpy_468x523.jpg)
Sabia Rani 19 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=506686&in_page_id=1770)UK (not only did four members of her husband's family do nothing to help her, they turned a blind eye as he continued the beatings and ultimately murdered the helpless young woman at the house they all shared).

[eternal_spirit]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/08/shafelia_203.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/08/shafelia_203.jpg)
Shafilea Ahmed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7176787.stm)UK more here (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/01/islam-murders-a.html)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/01/20/shafileaahmed_honor_killing.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/20/shafileaahmed_honor_killing.jpg)
Teenager 'honour killing' girl made dramatic plea for help before she died (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=507020&in_page_id=1770)
Ramla: Woman killed in front of her children (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3344932,00.html)
Israel: Ramla: 18-year-old shot dead (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3353002,00.html)
Australia Virgin Murdered in "Honor" Killing (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/03/aussie-virgin-m.html)
Israel: Clever Enough to Play Dead (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/03/another-honor-k.html)
Randa Abdel Qader (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/04/honor-killing-v.html): Stomped, Suffocated, Stabbed, Dad walks free
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/05/11/rand_abdekqadar.jpg (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/11/rand_abdekqadar.jpg)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011278dc150428a4-500wi (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef011278dc150428a4-popup)
Sonay Mohammad, beaten unconscious by her father and thrown in the harbour in Præstø, Denmark, in 2002. She was 14 years old. Her 'crime' was living like most Danish girls live. The story has made the headlines again, because her father, a Kurdish Iraqi, is due to be released after having served s-e-v-e-n years, half the 'life' sentence he received."The reason being a rule that says that perps who will be deported from Denmark after having served time can be released after half the time, and then be deported immediately." His wife has supported him all the way. At least they will be sent back to Hellholistan, surely a worse fate than being in a Danish prison and living off social benefits. Oh yeah, social benefits from the Danish state have enabled Mrs. Mohammad to buy no less than TWO houses in Kurdistan.

[eternal_spirit]

Sharia in action and honour killings, need any more proof?

[eternal_spirit]

From what I hear Shariah economics/monetary policy rocks. Their belief in sound money and no usary are probably as big a reason for the american wars as the oil they have.

What 2 things do this lot have in common: Lincoln, Kennedy, the Communists and the Muslims....Honest money and killed by Americans.
The two dirty secrets of Islamic banking, however, are that, like all banks, Sharia banks do charge interest – they just give it another name – and that the clerics supervising the banks have ties to extremist, even terrorist, groups which work towards the Islamization of Europe and world dominance.
Helena Christofi, an expert on Sharia banking, explains that Islamic banks extend a type of Islamic “credit,” called murabaha, that shifts risk to the borrower in a manner similar to interest.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73899

[kanz]

Indeed, just like the previous attacks, they were labelled before even the preliminary investigation took place lol.

If it weren't so sad I'll be laughing, about their constant fabrications, and yet people here can't see the link between lies that are unfolding on a daily basis against Islam and Muslims and their "so called truth".

They all agree that these attacks have nothing to do with either Muslims nor Islamic teachings, but they still try to pin everything that happens on Islam.

I thought the idea of being on forum like this one is to expose the real perpetrators and make people aware, but I don't see a difference in what the main stream media is saying and some comments and threads I read here.

No matter what evidence you bring to their attention, Islam and Muslims are still guilty.
They are more interested in what Islam did 700 years ago than the people who are killing them today, and enslaving them, but it's okay, these are just corrupt bankers, politicians, corporations and so on..

It doesn't matter if they poisning our food and our drinks, our air, we are more interested in blaming & hating someone else, and they still can't see the true manipulation.

They believe they just grew up hating all religions, they don't actually realise that they have been exposed to a real indoctrination, by pulling them away from any form of religion, they become easy for manipulation.

Instead of debating for example on how to get rid of these unlawful taxes that we are paying, no it's more important to simply stay here and paste crap written by the same people who don't want religion, because religion stops them from enslaving the masses.


I did mention it time and time again, why do these people hate Islam?

I'll give you just few examples

Islam forbids taxes (unlawful)
Islam forbids interests (unlawful)
Islam forbids Gambling (unlawful and family breaker)
Islam forbids sex at will (turns people into animals) as we see it today with all related diseases and social implications.
Islam forbids Alcohol (serious implication on our health and our social behaviour) we see the evidence that none can deny.

And I can go on like this for pages on things that Islam forbids and why.

Anyway I don't believe for one minute that these people are in any way inclined to learn, or to speak the truth.


You can read it in their nastiness towards Islam and especially when they mention the prophet's name, they can't mention him without sticking a label of him being this and that.

That shows either they have no idea who he really was, or it's done on purpose.

Anyway it's their loss not mine.

I have to agree , i remmeber when i was in school and they first taught us that. It's one thing that I always did like was the way they did loans etc. Im not 100% but its ment to work out that you take the loan and you pay back a fixed amount, no interest or something .
Anyway im a bit foggy on the exact's of it but seamed like a better system than the current loan system we use with interest where people end up under the debt.