Christianity Debunked

[Anders Lindman]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult, just like much else on this planet at the moment and throughout history. Do you think an advanced being would want to have himself nailed to a cross?! Please. Only a mentally ill person would act in such sadomasochistic way. An advanced being is mentally sane per definition.

I rest my briefcase. :cool:

[Anders Lindman]

To preempt any attempt of defending Christianity, I will hereby save you from the trouble: Someone who sacrifices himself/herself or others is mentally ill. So spare me your rants about sacrifice ever being a good thing.

[dedicate]

You know, I would like to add that MOTHERS are a lie also. There have never been anything like a mother. Mothers do not exist... this is a lie and we will all soon be grown in test tubes, because Motherhood is a lie. Nothing good about it. Only an insane person would be a mother.

Think about it. A woman spends nine months carrying around this heavy load, and she has to care that she does not hurt the thing she carries. Then her body changes all out of shape.. It could be that she might die because she carries this "thing". Then labor.. Should I even talk about that? Then she spends the next 18 or 20 years carring for, feeding, loving, nurishing this little brat. Spends money like it was going out of date tomorrow on this "kid". She gives up just about her entire life for that little person. Then after all that, the so-called child leaves her!!

What a crock.

[Anders Lindman]

You know, I would like to add that MOTHERS are a lie also. There have never been anything like a mother. Mothers do not exist... this is a lie and we will all soon be grown in test tubes, because Motherhood is a lie. Nothing good about it. Only an insane person would be a mother.

Think about it. A woman spends nine months carrying around this heavy load, and she has to care that she does not hurt the thing she carries. Then her body changes all out of shape.. It could be that she might die because she carries this "thing". Then labor.. Should I even talk about that? Then she spends the next 18 or 20 years carring for, feeding, loving, nurishing this little brat. Spends money like it was going out of date tomorrow on this "kid". She gives up just about her entire life for that little person. Then after all that, the so-called child leaves her!!

What a crock.

I guess what you mean is that the mother is making a sacrifice by having a child. Is that really a sacrifice? What I mean by sacrifice is that you lose more than you gain by your choice. Would any sane person ever make a choice where there is loss?

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

To preempt any attempt of defending Christianity, I will hereby save you from the trouble: Someone who sacrifices himself/herself or others is mentally ill. So spare me your rants about sacrifice ever being a good thing.

First and Foremost, I find your position of the many Noble Humans who have sacrificed their lives for a perceived Greater Good to be 'short-sighted'.

For the Preservation of others, often strangers or anonymous. No Glory, but Service for others.

I Salute them.

Perhaps a distilled overview of the whys and wherefors of this most contentious 'School of Thought' may be of service to your contemplations.

Plan 'A'~From Outer Space
http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW02-06/plan.htm

And since I respect your Intellect, I include as a Super-Double Happy Bonus, this:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

I agree with Dedicates example also. Sacrifice and Service to our fellow Humans is very Honourable.


Baron Von Snoopsnuffleopagus

[Anders Lindman]

First and Foremost, I find your position to the many Noble Humans who have sacrificed their lives for a perceived greater good.

For the Preservation of others, often strangers or anonymous. No Glory, but Service for others.

I Salute them.

Perhaps a distilled overview of the whys and wherefors of this most contentious 'School of Thought' may be of service to your contemplations.

Plan 'A'~From Outer Space
http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW02-06/plan.htm

And since I respect your Intellect, I include as a Super-Double Happy Bonus, this:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255


Baron Von Snoopsnuffleopagus

But don't you see that your ideas fly in the face of the well-grounded ethical rule that says: All persons have equal value.

If you sacrifice yourself, then you have in fact the belief that you have less value than other people.

[dedicate]

Yes, Motherhood is really a sacrifice. I just explained to you all the sacrifices a woman must make to be a mother. Motherhood must be plain insanity as you pointed out.

"What I mean by sacrifice is that you lose more than you gain by your choice. Would any sane person ever make a choice where there is loss?" -- I know there are stories of men who sacrificed their lives in battle to save even one friend. I know people I would jump in front of a moving truck to save, -- I guess I'm crazy that way. That would make it someone elses gain but the sacrificers loss, I guess, depending on how you look at it, I guess. How do you look at it?

[Anders Lindman]

Yes, that is really a sacrifice. I just explained to you all the sacrifices a woman must make to be a mother. Motherhood must be plain insanity as you pointed out.

"What I mean by sacrifice is that you lose more than you gain by your choice. Would any sane person ever make a choice where there is loss?" -- I know there are stories of men who sacrificed their lives in battle to save even one friend. I know people that I would jump in front of a moving truck to save, -- I guess I'm crazy that way. That would make it someone elses gain but the sacrificers loss, I guess, depending on how you look at it, I guess. How do you look at it?

I'm sure we both can agree that a mother having a baby is a natural thing. Is a crucifixion a natural thing?

A person who sacrifices himself or herself has the belief of having less value than other people.

Do 10 young persons have more value than 5 elderly persons? The answer is: no.

[armoured_amazon]

My life is complete now that I have all knowledge from someone who really knows. Yay!

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

But don't you see that your ideas fly in the face of the well-grounded ethical rule that says: All persons have equal value.

If you sacrifice yourself, then you have in fact the belief that you have less value than other people.

Ideally, in a 'perfect world'; but in this Chaotic realm of the 3D, there are times when neccesity requires a distinction. It is not then a matter of Equality, but the amorpheous quality: 'The Greater Good'.

Our History is filled with Anecdotes of these most Noble and Heroic People, by whose sacrifice many were spared death and harm, thus preserving the saved to often have a profound and positive effect upon humanity.

as an example, perhaps an old labourer such as myself, who has seen more suns rise then I will see suns set, gives my life to save a young child who then becomes a scientist who brings great innovations that help many people in many ways.

By letting the kid die, this benefit would never be realised.

An aspect of this question was scrutinised saving Private Ryan. The now old man, Pvt. Ryan was well aware of the sacrifices that had been made to preserve his life, and he attempted to live his life honourably, and even though he, himself had not made a great impact, maybe one of his children, or grand children made a measurable difference.

To many examples of this most Noble of Acts to dismiss so superficially.

Dontcha think?

Those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their fellow Humans have my Eternal Respect.



Kind Regards: Baron Von Snoopsnuffleopagus

:D it's like a steppewar thread with a religious slant. :D

you rascal ;^)

[comawhite015]

Stupidest fucking thread ever.

[dedicate]

Ah. There's the rub, as the bard did once said.

You think - "A person who sacrifices himself or herself has the belief of having less value than other people."

i don't even know if I can explain this one, or even if it matters that I did. Because we are not talking eye-to-eye.-- we are not going to meet with understanding, no matter what words I use.

Beyond self and Identity. Beyond the me and you -- there is the I and thou. No difference. If I allow you to die, then I die. If I save you then I save myself, even if I die. No way to see this if you don't already understand it.

[Anders Lindman]

Ideally, in a 'perfect world'; but in this Chaotic realm of the 3D, there are times when neccesity requires a distinction. It is not then a matter of Equality, but the amorpheous quality: 'The Greater Good'.

Our History is filled with Anecdotes of these most Noble and Heroic People, by whose sacrifice many were spared death and harm, thus preserving the saved to often have a profound and positive effect upon humanity.

as an example, perhaps an old labourer such as myself, who has seen more suns rise then I will see suns set, gives my life to save a young child who then becomes a scientist who brings great innovations that help many people in many ways.

By letting the kid die, this benefit would never be realised.

An aspect of this question was scrutinised saving Private Ryan. The now old man, Pvt. Ryan was well aware of the sacrifices that had been made to preserve his life, and he attempted to live his life honourably, and even though he, himself had not made a great impact, maybe one of his children, or grand children made a measurable difference.

To many examples of this most Noble of Acts to dismiss so superficially.

Dontcha think?

Those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their fellow Humans have my Eternal Respect.



Kind Regards: Baron Von Snoopsnuffleopagus

:D it's like a steppewar thread with a religious slant. :D

you rascal ;^)

First of all, 'the greater good' is an idea that has been hammered into you by society, a society ruled by people like Henry Kissinger who said something like: "Military men are stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

Are the lives of 10 friends (or 'fellow citizens') worth more than the lives of 5 enemies? The answer is: no.

[armoured_amazon]

First of all, 'the greater good' is an idea that has been hammered into you by society, a society ruled by people like Henry Kissinger who said something like: "Military men are stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

Are the lives of 10 friends (or 'fellow citizens') worth more than the lives of 5 enemies? The answer is: no.

Clanging cymbal.

[Anders Lindman]

Ah. There's the rub, as the bard did once said.

You think - "A person who sacrifices himself or herself has the belief of having less value than other people."

i don't even know if I can explain this one, or even if it matters that I did. Because we are not talking eye-to-eye.-- we are not going to meet with understanding, no matter what words I use.

Beyond self and Identity. Beyond the me and you -- there is the I and thou. No difference. If I allow you to die, then I die. If I save you then I save myself. But this takes beyond intellectual understanding. No way to see this if you don't already understand it.

Seen from a perspective of 'Oneness': The One never sacrifices itself. If it did, existence would have been destroyed a long time ago.

[kasalt]

To preempt any attempt of defending Christianity, I will hereby save you from the trouble: Someone who sacrifices himself/herself or others is mentally ill. So spare me your rants about sacrifice ever being a good thing.

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2007/03/07/obi-wan460.jpg

[dedicate]

You won't understand this either: The One is a sacrifice.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

First of all, 'the greater good' is an idea that has been hammered into you by society, a society ruled by people like Henry Kissinger who said something like: "Military men are stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

Are the lives of 10 friends (or 'fellow citizens') worth more than the lives of 5 enemies? The answer is: no.

I dis-agree, the concept of self-sacrifice and the 'Greater-Good' predates organised societies, especially the likes of hk.

I stand on the Busses and Subways so that others may sit. A very, very, very small sacrifice. Very often the circumstance that required the ultimate sacrifice was unforseen, unplanned. Often, in the Anecdotes of these Heroic Acts, the sacrificee acted upon momentary notice, without regard for their own self-preservation.

Great Sages have written: 'There is no greater Love....'

A Shepard expends their energy for the welfare of the flock.

A Predator expends the energy of their prey for the benefit of themselves.


This is definitely a 'Steppewar' type agenda agenda here. I shall provide a few examples of these magnificent Humans who made the ultimate sacrifice. This may turn out to be a magnificent Thread.


PS: Bear in mind Anders; Yahshua Messiah was operating with 'Off The Chart' IQ, He had full use of His Brain/Mind Complex, like YHWH. And He knew of His impending Death, long before He was arrested and Murdered.

With the percentage of our mental capabilities availiable to us, it is challenging for us to have full realisation of what is being 'Played Out'.

Also, for the Record: When Father YHWH ressurected Yahshua from Death, the War was won. That was the turning point!

Check that Michael Heiser Thread; we are examining what he refers to as: 'Species Unique'

YHWH and Yahshua-Unique

[Anders Lindman]

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."


It's about the balance of the Force. The Siths care only about themselves and the Jedi only care about others. Both are wrong. Both are the Force in an imbalanced state.

[Anders Lindman]

You won't understand this either: The One is a sacrifice.

:eek: That sounds rather nasty. Like David Icke said about the expression: Where there is love there is pain. Bollox!

[dedicate]

I see where you are coming from. Why is that? And you can't see where I come from. Why is that?

[Anders Lindman]

I dis-agree, the concept of self-sacrifice and the 'Greater-Good' predates organised societies, especially the likes of hk.


Yes, that's probably correct. Among herd animals for example, sacrifice is an important part of their survival. When predators have killed on of the members, then the rest of the herd can relax and watch the predators eating one of their own.

So sacrifice is a very deep-rooted thing. But we are supposed to be humans, not animals. We are supposed to grow up from the death cult.

[Anders Lindman]

I see where you are coming from. Why is that? And you can't see where I come from. Why is that?

You think you do. But do you? I don't even see where I'm coming from myself. :D

[dedicate]

Of course I do. You said, sacrificing yourself for something or someone was insane> Look at it. What does one gain by it? Only a fool would spend his last dime on a bum on the street or jump in front of a truck for a friend. FOOOOOOLLLLLs. I see that. It makes perfect, logical sense. Anyone who would do that has no self respect, and considers himself less than what others are.

That is where you are coming from and I understand the arguement fully. This is where you are at. This is what you seeee.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Hi Anders:

Just for clarification of your Position, would you provide me with your Positon in this Scenario:

You're 'Big Daddy', you have 6 children that are an absolute delight. You love them unconditionally, you provide for their welfare.

The 'Big Bad Wolf' comes along and sez: 'Meez gonna eatz your little boys and girls, whatcha gonna do about it Pops?

You're unarmed, in your pajamas, unprepared. the best you can do is 'slow him down' while your children escape.

Would you sacrifice your life so that your children may survive?

No time to 'Think'

Here is a Lady who made the Ultimate Sacrifice by placing herself into harms way to be of service to others. Many people have jobs that require courage when the 'going gets rough', and they do not shirk their Duty.


An officer and a heroine
Ernest Evans - Leavenworth, Kan.

There were many memories of heroism on 9/11, but one that is particularly vivid to me is a picture of officer Moira Smith of the New York City Police Department. The officer was leading an injured man away from the Twin Towers.

After this picture was taken, officer Smith went back in to help others to safety. She died moments later when the tower collapsed.

The courage displayed by Smith that day constantly inspires me as I go about my duties teaching soldiers at the U.S. Army Staff College how to combat terrorism.

Whenever I get tired or discouraged about my duties, I think of her bravery that terrible day. That gives me the strength to continue my work.

May God bless officer Smith's husband and daughter.

[Anders Lindman]

Of course I do. You said, sacrificing yourself for something or someone was insane> I agree. It is insane. Look at it. What does one gain by it? Only a fool would be spend his last dime on a bum on the street or jump in front of a truck for a friend. FOOOOOOLLLLLs. I see that. It makes persfect, logical sense. Anyone who would do that has no self respect, and considers himself less than what others are.

That is where you are coming from and I understand the arguement fully.

Giving one's last dime to a bum on the street can be either good or bad depending on the overall context.

You are yourself always equally valuable as other people. No less, no more.

[Anders Lindman]

Hi Anders:

Just for clarification of your Position, would you provide me with your Positon in this Scenario:

You're 'Big Daddy', you have 6 children that are an absolute delight. You love them unconditionally, you provide for their welfare.

The 'Big Bad Wolf' comes along and sez: 'Meez gonna eatz your little boys and girls, whatcha gonna do about it Pops?

You're unarmed, in your pajamas, unprepared. the best you can do is 'slow him down' while your children escape.

Would you sacrifice your life so that your children may survive?

No time to 'Think'

That's a death cult fairy tale. My idea is that we should grow up from the death cult.

[dedicate]

So, are you saying I can't see your point of view? Even after I repeated what you said and added "Yes, I can see that"? But you did say "less value" at one point. Must I dig it up?

so are you saying I can't see your point of view?

[Anders Lindman]

So, are you saying I can't see your point of view? Even after I repeated what you said and added "Yes, I can see that"? But you did say "less value" at one point. Must I dig it up?

I do have fixed ideas that I base my debunking on. And I will defend those ideas. One key idea is that sacrifice is always bad. If I can prove that, then I can chop off the head of Christianity with a single blow.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

That's a death cult fairy tale. My idea is that we should grow up from the death cult.



^This is a cop-out


Before you attempt to Debunk :rolleyes: Xtianity, you should understand it. Read the Pla /A/ from Outer Space :D

glad I'm not your kid, thanx for nutthin' Pops :p

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

I do have fixed ideas that I base my debunking on. And I will defend those ideas. One key idea is that sacrifice is always bad. If I can prove that, then I can chop off the head of Christianity with a single blow.

Better pack a Lunch, it might take awhile :D


Do you, yourself have degrees of Sacrifice you will make, given the circumstances?

Worth a looksee:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=died+saving&btnG=Search

[dedicate]

Well, Anders Lindman, IM GLAD YOU DIDN'T CALL ME A LIAR. At least you have enough sense not to do that.

[Anders Lindman]

^This is a cop-out


Before you attempt to Debunk :rolleyes: Xtianity, you should understand it. Read the Pla /A/ from Outer Space :D

glad I'm not your kid, thanx for nutthin' Pops :p

If you cling to your belief that sacrifice is needed, then you may draw to you events in life that will make your belief come true. Are you sure you still want to cling to that belief?

[Anders Lindman]

Well, Anders Lindman, IM GLAD YOU DIDN'T CALL ME A LIAR. At least you have enough sense not to do that.

Yes, it's important that I attack ideas, not people. Of course, by furiously attacking Christianity (with my debunking attempt) many people may feel personally attacked, so I have to be a bit careful. The same with the idea that sacrifice is wrong. That's exactly the opposite of the common mainstream view.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

If you cling to your belief that sacrifice is needed, then you may draw to you events in life that will make your belief come true. Are you sure you still want to cling to that belief?


Thats bogus Law of Attraction analogy. It is not a belief, rather a matter of Historical Record. As I stated, unforseen, unattracted occurences may neccesatate.

The whole Point of the Book of YHWH and the example of Yahshua is how one Conquers Death. The majority of us engage in activities that are slowly killing us. Do you think you will be having a 328th Birthday Celebration?

The Plan 'A' from Outer Space actually debunks you! lol :D :p

[Anders Lindman]

Thats bogus Law of Attraction analogy. It is not a belief, rather a matter of Historical Record. As I stated, unforseen, unattracted occurences may neccesatate.

The whole Point of the Book of YHWH and the example of Yahshua is how one Conquers Death. The majority of us engage in activities that are slowly killing us. Do you think you will be having a 328th Birthday Celebration?

The Plan 'A' from Outer Space actually debunks you! lol :D :p

Historical record? :eek: That's a horror. Surely we must learn from our mistakes?

I'm not sure that the belief in sacrifice will draw towards itself circumstances of sacrifice. But what if? The same thing with people who believe sacrifice can be good. A person who is willing to sacrifice himself or herself is also willing to sacrifice other people. :eek: Or? :confused: I'm not sure about these speculations, but I remain firm in my view that sacrifice is wrong.

[dedicate]

Try sacrificing your own mind A.L.,-- put your own head on the block and give it a chop. I'll see you in two weeks, and tell me if you don't feel better. Bye Bye, for now. Two weeks remember.

[Anders Lindman]

Try sacrificing your own mind A.L.,-- put your own head on the block and give it a chop. I'll see you in two weeks, and tell me if you don't feel better. Bye Bye, for now. Two weeks remember.

As I have said, I believe sacrifice is wrong, so your recommendation is not an option for me. ;):D

[kasalt]

Better pack a Lunch, it might take awhile :D


Do you, yourself have degrees of Sacrifice you will make, given the circumstances?

Worth a looksee:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=died+saving&btnG=Search

Pwned.

[dedicate]

Dont think of it as a sacrifice then. Think of it as necessary surgery. What have you got to lose? I guarantee you that if you do what I'm telling you, then Christianity will be destroyed also. So I agree, it will take only one good chop at the neck for you and Christianity will fall.

[Anders Lindman]

Dont think of it as a sacrifice then. Think of it as necessary surgery. What have you got to lose? I guarantee you that if you do what I'm telling you, then Christianity will be destroyed also. So I agree, it will take only one good chop at the neck for you and Christianity will fall.

Ha! One important thing is that while I look at Christianity as just a bunch of ideas, true believers may certainly take Christianity as more than mere ideas.

And it may be foolish to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Therefore here are some awesome quotes from the Bible:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." -- Matthew 5:43-48

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." -- Matthew 6:1

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." -- Matthew 6:19-21

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- Matthew 6:24

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?" -- Matthew 6:25-26

[dedicate]

How about this one: It's from one of the LOST gospels. -- You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[Anders Lindman]

How about this one: It's from one of the LOST gospels. -- You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The horse will drink if the water is good and the horse being thirsty.

I just came to think about another thing. People can publicly say that they are pro-sacrifice, but when it comes to themselves, then they are not really so willing to sacrifice themselves any longer. In this devilish way they can watch wars on CNN while singing the praise of the brave troops sacrificing themselves while secretly thinking that they themselves would never do something like that.

[deckard]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult, just like much else on this planet at the moment and throughout history. Do you think an advanced being would want to have himself nailed to a cross?! Please. Only a mentally ill person would act in such sadomasochistic way. An advanced being is mentally sane per definition.
I rest my briefcase. :cool:

The OP- Christianity is not a deathcult, it is about teaching love and forgiveness
.
Jesus did not want to be nailed to the cross either, or die in any kind of painful way, read here about him here in the garden of Gethsemane, the night before he was imprisoned.

Does this sound like the account of someone mentally ill, who would want to die painfully?

A. WHEN JESUS EXPRESSED AGONIZING PRAYER...
1. The agony in His prayer is:
a. Seen by His posture: "He...fell on His face" - Mt 26:39
b. Heard in His words: "O My Father, if it is possible, let
this cup pass from Me" - Mt 26:39,42,44
2. It was "godly fear" Jesus expressed, and for such His prayer
was heard - He 5:7
a. Not that the cup (of suffering) was removed
b. But that He would be able to drink it

B. WHEN JESUS EXTENDED ENTIRE RESIGNATION...
1. As evidenced by His words:
a. "Not as I will, but as You will." - Mt 26:39
b. "if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it,
Your will be done." - Mt 26:42
2. When man first said "My will, not Thine be done..."
a. It opened the flood gate of sin
b. It turned man out of the Paradise of God
3. But when Jesus said "Not as I will, but as You will..."
a. Victory over sin and access to the Tree of Life became
possible
b. For it prepared Jesus to go to the cross to make it
possible

C. WHEN JESUS ENJOYED SPECIAL COMFORT...
1. Jesus received an answer to His prayer - cf. Lk 22:43
a. Not the answer He requested (let this cup pass from Me)
b. But strength from an angel!
2. Like the apostle Paul would pray later - cf. 2Co 12:7-10
a. Asking the Lord to remove his thorn in the flesh
b. Receiving an answer different than requested, but more than
sufficient to meet the need!

D. WHEN JESUS EVINCED RENEWED RESOLVE...
1. Strengthened, Jesus was ready to face the hour at hand - Mt
26:45
2. He was ready to meet His betrayer and those with him - Mt 26:
46-47

[deckard]

How about this one: It's from one of the LOST gospels. -- You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Do you have any proof that this expression is from these 'gospels'?

[Anders Lindman]

The OP- Christianity is not a deathcult, it is about teaching love and forgiveness
.
Jesus did not want to be nailed to the cross either, or die in any kind of painful way, read here about him here in the garden of Gethsemane, the night before he was imprisoned.

Does this sound like the account of someone mentally ill, who would want to die painfully?


I forgot one important thing. An advanced being would never let himself or herself to get sacrificed. Only a mentally ill person with sadomasochistic tendencies would allow something like that.

[Anders Lindman]

While the ordinary Joe Blow or the average Hockey Mom would sing the praise of the troops fighting on CNN, I would say: "Hey, you soldier, yes you you fucking murderer, go ahead and kill and sacrifice yourself all you want, but to me you will never be a hero, you will always remain a pathetic murderer, you little Orc."

[deckard]

I forgot one important thing. An advanced being would never let himself or herself to get sacrificed. Only a mentally ill person with sadomasochistic tendencies would allow something like that.

A mentally ill person would never allow something like that, he would probably go to his death kicking and screaming.
Jesus was quite sane.

He did not want to die either, but knew he had to, otherwise we wouldnt have had the inspiration of his sacrifice for Christianity to grow.

[deckard]

While the ordinary Joe Blow or the average Hockey Mom would sing the praise of the troops fighting on CNN, I would say: "Hey, you soldier, yes you you fucking murderer, go ahead and kill and sacrifice yourself all you want, but to me you will never be a hero, you will always remain a pathetic murderer, you little Orc."

He could turn around and shoot you for that, it might be wise if you kept quiet in that situation.

[Anders Lindman]

He could turn around and shoot you for that, it might be wise if you kept quiet in that situation.

He would only shoot the camera the CNN crew are strutting around with on the battle field. :p:D

Another strange thing is that people actually believe there can be something like a 'Christian' soldier. Would Jesus Christ ever run around as a soldier killing people? That would be ridiculous!

[Anders Lindman]

A mentally ill person would never allow something like that, he would probably go to his death kicking and screaming.
Jesus was quite sane.

He did not want to die either, but knew he had to, otherwise we wouldnt have had the inspiration of his sacrifice for Christianity to grow.

No one ever has to sacrifice himself or herself. That's a lie the predator elite have programmed us to believe. The whole crucifixion part in the Bible smacks of Satanism.

[Anders Lindman]

He would only shoot the camera the CNN crew are strutting around with on the battle field. :p:D


But more seriously, the strong contempt I used in my hypothetical example of me yelling at a soldier on the TV screen could be pretty accurate of how the political leaders think of the men and women in military service.

Especially in the U.S. (if what I heard and remember is correct) that most (or at least many) war veterans end up as homeless bums, and many suffer, not only from psychological diseases, but also from physical diseases caused by depleted uranium and other nasty things. There are even rumors that the troops are used for medical and chemical experiments, with vaccines and toxic substances.

It's the soldiers who should be angry as hell. To say: enough already! And give the government the finger.

[Anders Lindman]

But more seriously, the strong contempt I used in my hypothetical example of me yelling at a soldier on the TV screen could be pretty accurate of how the political leaders think of the men and women in military service.


A hint of this can perhaps be found in Henry Kissinger's comment about "Military men are stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

That would explain why war veterans are shown such contempt in reality when it comes to how they are actually treated by the society when they come home.

Most soldiers are very young. Almost kids. They do have personal responsibility of course, but they are being fucked up their arses very badly by people in positions of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCCmBwRjGw

[deckard]

No one ever have to sacrifice himself or herself. That's a lie the predator elite have programmed us to believe. The whole crucifixion part in the Bible smacks of Satanism.

Smacks of it?

In a way your right, Satan was definitely a big player in the crucifixion, little did he know, that instead of killing the son of killing the son of God, it would create a huge movement against himself.

I believe he was always on the scene near Christ trying to turn him away from his true path, a good movie to watch on this, and one of my favourites, is 'The last temptation of Christ' directed by Martin Scorcece, and staring Willem Dafoe as Jesus, excellent movie.

This is the end part

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxt4Qq76vB0

[deckard]

A hint of this can perhaps be found in Henry Kissinger's comment about "Military men are stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."
That would explain why war veterans are shown such contempt in reality when it comes to how they are actually treated by the society when they come home.
Most soldiers are very young. Almost kids. They do have personal responsibility of course, but they are being fucked up their arses very badly by people in positions of power.


Your completely forgetting that millions of hot blooded males enjoy using high tech weaponary, and being in positions of power to use it.
The NWO takes advantage of this and uses it.
They are far from stupid.
And most people show understanding and compassion, not contempt for war veterans, as you should too.
Only fools will show contempt for things they dont fully understand.

[Anders Lindman]

Smacks of it?

In a way your right, Satan was definitely a big player in the crucifixion, little did he know, that instead of killing the son of killing the son of God, it would create a huge movement against himself.


A conspiracy researcher pointed out that there are many similarities between Uncle Sam and Satan.

http://riverflowsdown.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/061219141512_uncle_sam_i_am_telling_you_lg.jpg

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/uncle-sam-support-troops.jpg

http://www.gnosticteachings.org/images/stories/tarot/Baphometh.jpg

[Anders Lindman]

Your completely forgetting that millions of hot blooded males enjoy using high tech weaponary, and being in positions of power to use it.
The NWO takes advantage of this and uses it.
They are far from stupid.
And most people show understanding and compassion, not contempt for war veterans, as you should too.
Only fools will show contempt for things they dont fully understand.

They maybe THINK they would love using high tech weapons, but then they are victims of illusions, propaganda or other forms of social programming.

Real war is not the same thing as playing a video game sitting on the couch drinking Coca-Cola and eating crisps.

[deckard]

A conspiracy researcher pointed out that there are many similarities between Uncle Sam and Satan.
http://riverflowsdown.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/061219141512_uncle_sam_i_am_telling_you_lg.jpg
http://www.gnosticteachings.org/images/stories/tarot/Baphometh.jpg

Well its pretty fair to say America was created soley to help carry out Satans work.
The 'stars' are not actually stars either, they are pentagrams, a sign odf Satanivc ownership, thats why each state has one, and Uncle Sam has a big one on his hat.
There are also 13 stripes on the American flag.

[deckard]

They maybe THINK they would love using high tech weapons, but then they are victims of illusions, propaganda or other forms of social programming.
Real war is not the same thing as playing a video game sitting on the couch drinking Coca-Cola and eating crisps.

A lot of them do enjoy it, the danger, the adrenalin rush, the comradeship, theres no illusions here in those situations.

Also have you ever wondered why so many violent video games are promoted, especially ones with soldiers stalking and killing, or killing from a long range using high tech weaponary?

Its to groom childrens mentality as future soldiers for the NWO.
In my own country, 95% of aussie boys under 12 now play video games that involve killing.

[Anders Lindman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHey5g56CIs

[Anders Lindman]

A lot of them do enjoy it, the danger, the adrenalin rush, the comradeship, theres no illusions here in those situations.


They BELIEVE that that's what they are going to get, but boy are they mistaken.

[deckard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHey5g56CIs

this is an evil bastard.

[Anders Lindman]

An advice for you kids out there who want to joint the military: stick to your video games. Less effort that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkw3L7oxwk

[deckard]

They BELIEVE that that's what they are going to get, but boy are they mistaken.


No thats pretty much what they get mate, alive video game with them in it, having fun legally shooting guys with the latest hardware.
Around 4,000 US soldiers have died so far in nearly six years, enemy killed during this time, probably over half a million, do you really think their loosing?

[Anders Lindman]

evil bastard.

Hehe. I don't agree with everything Bill Hicks said. But he has got some points like: "When Jesus comes back, do you think he wants to see a fuckin' cross?!" :D

[deckard]

An advice for you kids out there who want to joint the military: stick to your video games. Less effort that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkw3L7oxwk

They will be the guys getting recruited, especially if theres no jobs around.

[deckard]

Hehe. I don't agree with everything Bill Hicks said. But he has got some points like: "When Jesus comes back, do you think he wants to see a fuckin' cross?!" :D

I dont think it will bother him to be honest, hes very understanding.

[Anders Lindman]

No thats pretty much what they get mate, alive video game with them in it, having fun legally shooting guys with the latest hardware.
Around 4,000 US soldiers have died so far in nearly six years, enemy killed during this time, probably over half a million, do you really think their loosing?

Being on duty for real is not like sitting at home on the couch in front of a video game. And even if they at some occasion get to shoot people 'for fun' it will not be pleasant to live with that later on trying to carry on a civilian life.

Some of the kids may be mentally ill, but most are no doubt ordinary kids often from poor backgrounds at home.

[deckard]

Being on duty for real is not like sitting at home on the couch in front of a video game. And even if they at some occasion get to shoot people 'for fun' it will not be pleasant to live with that later on trying to carry on a civilian life.
Some of the kids may be mentally ill, but most are no doubt ordinary kids often from poor backgrounds at home.

Most of the kids I observe playing these games are either sitting there cold and emotionless while shooting, blowing up, and knifing people, or getting excited and yelling to their mates about it.
There doesnt seem to be much revulsion at what their doing.
They are being mentally groomed for the real thing.

[Anders Lindman]

Most of the kids I observe playing these games are eiether sitting there cold and emotionless while shooting, blowing up, and knifing people, or getting excited and yelling to their mates about it.
There doesnt seem to be much revulsion at what their doing.
They are being mentally groomed for the real thing.

I think video games can be fun, like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn1tj5-Nc

I find it hard to believe that kids can become so screwed up in their minds that they cannot separate fact from fiction. :eek:

[armoured_amazon]

I find it hard to believe that kids can become so screwed up in their minds that they cannot separate fact from fiction. :eek:

Perhaps you were parented better?

A lot of kids are raised by the tv now.

[knightofthegrail]

Perhaps you were parented better?

A lot of kids are raised by the tv now.

Indeed. When you are brought up knowing so much media and VR it is unlikely not to play a part in you "socialisation".....

[Anders Lindman]

Perhaps you were parented better?

A lot of kids are raised by the tv now.

But even if kids today play a lot of violent video games, I don't think they can become so messed up. A very few kids with severe psychological problems can (perhaps with the help of antidepressants) go totally crazy and go on a school shooting spree and other horrors like that. But very, very few.

One Christian told me that there is a dark/evil energy in some music, movies etc, and that could be true, but a person must be very mentally ill to become a mass murderer and it is hardly the music, movies or the video games that are the root cause. Dark/Evil energy could actually be good sometimes to blow off some steam and have a therapeutic effect, even though I'm just guessing here.

[armoured_amazon]

But even if kids today play a lot of violent video games, I don't think they can become so messed up. A very few kids with severe psychological problems can (perhaps with the help of antidepressants) go totally crazy and go on a school shooting spree and other horrors like that. But very, very few.

One Christian told me that there is a dark/evil energy in some music, movies etc, and that could be true, but a person must be very mentally ill to become a mass murderer and it is hardly the music, movies or the video games that are the root cause. Dark/Evil energy could actually be good sometimes to blow off some steam and have a therapeutic effect, even though I'm just guessing here.

I don't think good can ever be born of evil. Those that remain untouched by the negative influences pushed on our kids (and adults) do so because fortunately they have balance and positive influences in their lives that outweigh the bad. One only has to look at the daytime reality chat shows to see the holes in souls of many who are easily corrupted. :(

[Anders Lindman]

I don't think good can ever be born of evil. Those that remain untouched by the negative influences pushed on our kids (and adults) do so because fortunately they have balance and positive influences in their lives that outweigh the bad. One only has to look at the daytime reality chat shows to see the holes in souls of many who are easily corrupted. :(

Eckhart Tolle had an interesting explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aUjLiLiriA

Tolle has a good description of 'becoming present/aware of the now' but he misses the time dimension which is also important and should not be diminished as Tolle promotes.

[armoured_amazon]

I shall watch this after my brekkie. :)

[deckard]

I think video games can be fun, like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn1tj5-Nc

I find it hard to believe that kids can become so screwed up in their minds that they cannot separate fact from fiction. :eek:


Its not about that, its conditioning the mind over and over not to feel any pity or remorse about killing anything, so when the real stuff does come, they will feel less worries about killing, and just do it.

[Anders Lindman]

A variant on Tolle's description is this video with Ken Wilber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA8tDzK_kPI

Oops! That was a bit off topic.

Here is a video with more relation to Christianity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUNlpyfT2LU

Well, at least somewhat related to Christianity. :o Ken Wilber really needs to learn more about what terrorism is. :eek: He should listen some to for example David Icke and Alex Jones.

[major seven]

Anders
If you were a supreme being with foreknowledge and the ability to NOT let your "Son" actually die, as we know it, would you be more inclined to say to you son; Hey Son, I need a favor. I need you to go to earth and become a human for a while to tell them some stuff about us, but at some point they are going to kill your human body in a not so very pleasant way, but by doing so we will save their spiritual lives when they believe you were raised from the dead. Now I know it ain't going to be real pleasant for you, and you already know that you ain't going to really die anyway, but its all part of my/our big plan to save as many folks as possible through your sacrifice."

Question is, was it really a sacrifice in the more human permanent sense of the word? A true sacrifice implies permanance such as a soldier jumping on a grenade to shield his comrades from the blast. Or say pushing a little kid out of the way of a runaway car.

Frank

[Anders Lindman]

Its not about that, its conditioning the mind over and over not to feel any pity or remorse about killing anything, so when the real stuff does come, they will feel less worries about killing, and just do it.

But kids know the difference between fact and fiction surely. If we live in like Plato's cave, and instead of shadows on the cave wall were looking at a video game all our lives, then ok, then we might get caught in a false reality. But the kids need to eat their Big Macs don't they? Have you ever seen a kid over the age of 6 trying to eat a hamburger from a computer image?

[deckard]

But kids know the difference between fact and fiction surely. If we live in like Plato's cave, and instead of shadows on the cave wall were looking at a video game all our lives, then ok, then we might get caught in a false reality. But the kids need to eat their Big Macs don't they? Have you ever seen a kid over the age of 6 trying to eat a hamburger from a computer image?

No, but they would if they could, see?

[Anders Lindman]

Anders
If you were a supreme being with foreknowledge and the ability to NOT let your "Son" actually die, as we know it, would you be more inclined to say to you son; Hey Son, I need a favor. I need you to go to earth and become a human for a while to tell them some stuff about us, but at some point they are going to kill your human body in a not so very pleasant way, but by doing so we will save their spiritual lives when they believe you were raised from the dead. Now I know it ain't going to be real pleasant for you, and you already know that you ain't going to really die anyway, but its all part of my/our big plan to save as many folks as possible through your sacrifice."

Question is, was it really a sacrifice in the more human permanent sense of the word? A true sacrifice implies permanance such as a soldier jumping on a grenade to shield his comrades from the blast. Or say pushing a little kid out of the way of a runaway car.

Frank

Very good point. No doubt there IS a great deal of suffering in the world. Now, let's look at the REALLY spooky stuff. Imagine if Christ hadn't suffered IN PLACE of humanity, that we would go on living in a state of ever increasing suffering, FOREVER!!! That's a nightmare of Biblical proportions. In that sense, what Jesus did was perhaps to prevent that from happening.

[luke1721]

this is an evil bastard.

Hicks is Evil whilst Constantine is a saint according to you Xitian blowhards.


Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him Evil. God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, Forever. For that, Christians call him "Good”
Anon

[armoured_amazon]

Hicks is Evil whilst Constantine is a saint according to you Xitian blowhards.


Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him Evil. God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, Forever. For that, Christians call him "Good”
Anon

Your stupidity is astounding.

[Anders Lindman]

No, but they would if they could, see?

But they can still distinguish between a real Happy Meal and an image on the computer screen. I read that very young children sometimes try eat photos in magazines etc. But as they grow older (and watch a video of themselves doing that) they can't believe how they could have been so stupid. :D

[major seven]

Very good point. No doubt there IS a great deal of suffering in the world. Now, let's look at the REALLY spooky stuff. Imagine if Christ hadn't suffered IN PLACE of humanity, that we would go on living in a state of ever increasing suffering, FOREVER!!! That's a nightmare of Biblical proportions. In that sense, what Jesus did was perhaps to prevent that from happening.


So Then, you acknowledge that Jesus "sacrifice" was a good thing and that He or the Father wasn't a mental case?

[luke1721]

Your stupidity is astounding.

She said in the mirror.

"The Christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: Both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."
Thomas Paine

[Anders Lindman]

So Then, you acknowledge that Jesus "sacrifice" was a good thing and that He or the Father wasn't a mental case?

Yes, I must admit that it COULD have been the right thing to do. At the same time we need to also look at other religions and admit that they too could have a good reason for having their firm beliefs. It becomes very tricky when we try to grasp the big picture. But I admit that the big picture must be included.

Here is a video with Ken Wilber talking about suffering. Wilber said that pain only becomes suffering when there is avoidance. That's a load of crock imo. Pain is suffering. There will be less suffering if the pain is understood and not fueled by fear, and in that sense Wilber is correct, but even then, pain is still suffering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWO5Oj4yG-Q

[major seven]

Yes, I must admit that it COULD have been the right thing to do. At the same time we need to also look at other religions and admit that they too could have a good reason for having their firm beliefs. It becomes very tricky when we try to grasp the big picture. But I admit that the big picture must be included.

Here is a video with Ken Wilber talking about suffering. Wilber said that pain only becomes suffering when there is avoidance. That's a load of crock imo. Pain is suffering. There will be less suffering if the pain is understood and not fueled by fear, and in that sense Wilber is correct, but even then, pain is still suffering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWO5Oj4yG-Q


Didn't watch video, but Wilber sounds like he could use some pain, like maybe a 2X4 smack upside his head.
I'm hungery! Ain't et a thing for days. I understand why there is a pain in my stomach. NO FOOD! I'm also afraid there won't be any food coming anytime soon. Will my suffering now be any less since I now know why my stomach hurts?

[Anders Lindman]

Didn't watch video, but Wilber sounds like he could use some pain, like maybe a 2X4 smack upside his head.
I'm hungery! Ain't et a thing for days. I understand why there is a pain in my stomach. NO FOOD! I'm also afraid there won't be any food coming anytime soon. Will my suffering now be any less since I now know why my stomach hurts?

I like Wilber's ideas, but I don't think he has got it all right.

About the hunger. There will be more suffering if we don't see how we can get food. Unless you are some kind of guru who is above all that. :D

[deckard]

"The Christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: Both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."
Thomas Paine


You have been watching too much anti christian propaganda, there is no connection between the egyptians worshipping the SUN, and Christians calling Jesus the SON of God.

[deckard]

Hicks is Evil whilst Constantine is a saint according to you Xitian blowhards.


Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him Evil. God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, Forever. For that, Christians call him "Good”
Anon

Watch the insults pal, why do you consider Constantine, evil?

I doubt God is going to burn anyone, thats what Satan does.

[deckard]

But they can still distinguish between a real Happy Meal and an image on the computer screen. I read that very young children sometimes try eat photos in magazines etc. But as they grow older (and watch a video of themselves doing that) they can't believe how they could have been so stupid. :D

I dont think the above is a correct analogy here.
I stand by my view, that kids are presently being groomed by and for the NWO, as compassionateless killing machines by continually playing these games.

[luke1721]

Watch the insults pal, why do you consider Constantine, evil?

I doubt God is going to burn anyone, thats what Satan does.

Do you consider Constantine a model of virtue? If I were you I would start reading about the History of your Religion and there is no love in it.

[luke1721]

You have been watching too much anti christian propaganda, there is no connection between the egyptians worshipping the SUN, and Christians calling Jesus the SON of God.

Christendom comes from the false religions of Babylon and they were Sun worshippers do some research and take your own advice.

[deckard]

Do you consider Constantine a model of virtue? If I were you I would start reading about the History of your Religion and there is no love in it.

I consider him a man with faults just like anyone else, and there is plenty of love in my religon, you just dont want to see it.

[luke1721]

I consider him a man with faults just like anyone else, and there is plenty of love in my religon, you just dont want to see it.

Your Religion is in fact Anti Christ and Constantine was such a nice chap he murdered his wife and son. Perfect role models for people like Bush and Blair...

[deckard]

Christendom comes from the false religions of Babylon and they were Sun worshippers do some research and take your own advice.

Sure it does, and when did you discover this?
Let me guess, a certain youtube video told you, and so thats what you believe now, most of that video, regarding Christianitys origins has already been proved total bunkem and conjecture, much like the DaVinci code has.
I bet you swallowed that as quick too.

[Anders Lindman]

I dont think the above is a correct analogy here.
I stand by my view, that kids are presently being groomed by and for the NWO, as compassionateless killing machines by continually playing these games.

That's what many conspiracy researchers also claim. I'm skeptical about that.

OR, here's an outrageous theory (my mind going into hyper-conspiracy mode): maybe they do train kids to become mindless killers as a form of eugenics. :eek: Those kids who are mentally unstable are turned into killing machines and sent to fight wars, just to get rid of that breeding stock.

[armoured_amazon]

That's what many conspiracy researchers also claim. I'm skeptical about that.

OR, here's an outrageous theory (my mind going into hyper-conspiracy mode): maybe they do train kids to become mindless killers as a form of eugenics. :eek: Those kids who are mentally unstable are turned into killing machines and sent to fight wars, just to get rid of that breeding stock.

Could be! They'd see them as disposable.

[emerald]

You have been watching too much anti christian propaganda, there is no connection between the egyptians worshipping the SUN, and Christians calling Jesus the SON of God.

This forum is for the open-minded ppl. What are u doing here?

[eyepod]

It's about the balance of the Force. The Siths care only about themselves and the Jedi only care about others. Both are wrong. Both are the Force in an imbalanced state.

Judgeing by your arguments and content of your post you know far more about Star Wars and computer games than anything much else. Maybe you should reserve your postings to these areas in future so as not to mislead anyone with a lower mental age than yourself.

[deckard]

Your Religion is in fact Anti Christ and Constantine was such a nice chap he murdered his wife and son. Perfect role models for people like Bush and Blair and all you other Psychotics who are mentally unstable.

My religon?
I said Constantine had faults, no one is perfect, also it was customary for men as fathers then to be judge and jury of any member of their family, and it was acceptable by Roman law for him to kill all of them if he wanted too.

Im not a mentally unstable psychotic either, so I would watch the personal insults if I was you.

[deckard]

This forum is for the open-minded ppl. What are u doing here?

Open to what exactly?
Any propaganda that suits what you like or hate?
You dont know me either, so keep your dumb personal insults to yourself ok.

[Anders Lindman]

Judgeing by your arguments and content of your post you know far more about Star Wars and computer games than anything much else. Maybe you should reserve your postings to these areas in future so as not to mislead anyone with a lower mental age than yourself.

:D "But master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future" - "But not at the expence of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, young Padawan"

[eyepod]

Christendom comes from the false religions of Babylon and they were Sun worshippers do some research and take your own advice.

Ok here we have another great researcher quite happy to use the false claims of highly dubious YouTube videos and such like as his foundation for debunking relegion.

You'll make an excellant compliant robot in the NWO but guess who / what you will worshipping sun shine? :cool:

[deckard]

Ok here we have another great researcher quite happy to use the false claims of highly dubious YouTube videos and such like as his foundation for debunking relegion.

You'll make an excellant compliant robot in the NWO but guess who / what you will worshipping sun shine? :cool:

Exactly, youtube told me so it must be true.

[eyepod]

:D "But master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future" - "But not at the expence of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, young Padawan"

Your doing your bit for the agenda, well done! :cool:

George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars also floods his movies with Masonic symbology. Yoda is the name of a Masonic teacher. The Djed-eye (Jedi) comes from the ancient Egyptian as noted earlier. The idea of Jedi Knights and a round table (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread350343/pg1#) comes from the Knights Templar. Skywalker is the name of the 13th Tzolkien in the Mayan calendar, the symbol of which looks just like the top of Luke’s flight helmet. Anakin comes from Anakim or the Sons of Anak in the Bible and Darth Vader no doubt comes from the “Da’ath” black sephiroth of the Jewish Kabbalah. These occult interpretations of Hollywood movies and TV programs (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread350343/pg1#) are well understood by initiates, but purposely meant to bewilder the public.

[Anders Lindman]

Could be! They'd see them as disposable.

There is eugenics going on. Or at least has been going on in a recent past. That is officially documented. And today there are massive vaccination programs going on in poor countries. Even experts like doctors have talked about vaccines being used for for example sterilization of women. And other experts (I don't know how credible but still) say that the troops are being given nasty kinds of vaccines and other poisons. :eek: So there could be some truth to the idea that genocide is still going on today.

[Anders Lindman]

Your doing your bit for the agenda, well done! :cool:

It's true that Hollywood may indeed be involved in propaganda. I think Alan Watt for example even has actual hard evidence for that. But I like movies like Star Wars and the Matrix. Heck, I even found parts of the movie Transformers interesting. :o The producer of the Transformers has made a new movie about 2012 if I remember correctly. That one could be interesting.

[armoured_amazon]

There is eugenics going on. Or at least has been going on in a recent past. That is officially documented. And today there are massive vaccination programs going on in poor countries. Even experts like doctors have talked about vaccines being used for for example sterilization of women. And other experts (I don't know how credible but still) say that the troops are being given nasty kinds of vaccines and other poisons. :eek: So there could be some truth to the idea that genocide is still going on today.

Yes, I've read about vaccines given in African countries inducing miscarriage and infertility in women. I've no doubt the eugenics of Nazi times are still going on today.

:mad:

[strt]

I would strongly suggest that you all check forum posting guidelines - offending other user will not make your message stronger :)

Thanks.

[eyepod]

It's true that Hollywood may indeed be involved in propaganda. I think Alan Watt for example even has actual hard evidence for that. But I like movies like Star Wars and the Matrix. Heck, I even found parts of the movie Transformers interesting. :o The producer of the Transformers has made a new movie about 2012 if I remember correctly. That one could be interesting.

Hollywood has been a propaganda mouthpiece for the Pentagon and Freemasonry for a very long time. It's called brain washing, your doing fine - keep watching.

[/URL][URL="http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html"]Collateral Brain Damage?
The Hollywood Propaganda Ministry (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html)

[Anders Lindman]

Yes, I've read about vaccines given in African countries inducing miscarriage and infertility in women. I've no doubt the eugenics of Nazi times are still going on today.

:mad:

Someone said that women in parts of Africa run away and hide when they are to become vaccinated. If that story is true, then they know that the vaccines cause sterilization. I have asked Doctors Without Borders about if there is a higher percentage of women/girls who get vaccinated than men/boys. I haven't received an answer.

[Anders Lindman]

Hollywood has been a propaganda mouthpiece for the Pentagon and Freemasonry for a very long time. It's called brain washing, your doing fine - keep watching.

[/URL][URL="http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html"]Collateral Brain Damage?
The Hollywood Propaganda Ministry (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html)

The important thing is to be aware of potential propaganda in films, news etc. That I learned from David Icke and other conspiracy researchers. There's a huge difference between just swallowing all info from 'authorities' and to take in the info with a questioning mind.

[Anders Lindman]

More debunking of Christianity: The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was needed, fine, I can accept that as a potentially true hypothesis. But it seems to me that the dogma of Christianity is incomplete. As J. Krishnamurti has pointed out, any dogma, any knowledge, is limited. Therefore I see a potential danger of Christianity being a trap since it's about a firm set of beliefs. Even people who find the living presence of Christ or the Holy Spirit in them, what if that is only a limited version of the actual potential? A trap if you will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg0tOj6GRGY

[deckard]

More debunking of Christianity: The crucifixion of Jesus Christ was needed, fine, I can accept that as a potentially true hypothesis. But it seems to me that the dogma of Christianity is incomplete. As J. Krishnamurti has pointed out, any dogma, any knowledge, is limited. Therefore I see a potential danger of Christianity being a trap since it's about a firm set of beliefs. Even people who find the living presence of Christ or the Holy Spirit in them, what if that is only a limited version of the actual potential? A trap if you will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg0tOj6GRGY

I dont see why you think its a trap, and it would definitely have to be alimited amount of the holy spirit, any thing more would be too much too handle, we would die from sheer well being and happiness.

[Anders Lindman]

Another debunking: As I understand it, Christianity doesn't explain consciousness very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bEsoBEzuLM

[deckard]

[QUOTE=Anders Lindman;585893]Another debunking: As I understand it, Christianity doesn't explain consciousness very well.
Theres no pleasing a christophobe is there.

[Anders Lindman]

I dont see why you think its a trap, and it would definitely have to be alimited amount of the holy spirit, any thing more would be too much too handle, we would die from sheer well being and happiness.

But I miss the inclusiveness Ken Wilber talks about. Christianity is right, Islam is wrong. I can't accept ideas as being right unless I can directly verify it myself. The Bible could be a massive piece of brainwashing propaganda for all I know!

[deckard]

Another debunking: As I understand it, Christianity doesn't explain consciousness very well.



Theres no pleasing a christophobe is there.

[Anders Lindman]

Theres no pleasing a christophobe is there.

What I suspect is that Christians are people who want something rock-solid to hold on to. Christianity gives them that kind of rock-solid dogma to cling to in a to me suspiciously convenient way. I cannot simply accept ideas from someone else without being able to directly verifying the claims myself. There is too much of 'brainwashing cult' warnings for me about Christianity.

[eyepod]

Another debunking: As I understand it, Christianity doesn't explain consciousness very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bEsoBEzuLM

This guy is just talking a load of old pyscho babble bollocks. Looks like you'll take on board any old "guru" that spouts enough crap for you to fall for.

You think this makes you better than Christians or any other relegious type? Same sh*t different day :cool:

[deckard]

What I suspect is that Christians are people who want something rock-solid to hold on to. Christianity gives them that kind of rock-solid dogma to cling to in a to me suspiciously convenient way. I cannot simply accept ideas from someone else without being able to directly verifying the claims myself. There is too much of 'brainwashing cult' warnings for me about Christianity.

Nothing wrong with rock solid, a man who builds his house on weak foundations, will usually be swept away by the first flood.

[Anders Lindman]

Nothing wrong with rock solid, a man who builds his house on weak foundations, will usually be swept away by the first flood.

True, but we better make sure that the foundation is as solid as the high Christian priests claim it is. David Icke says that all religions are just massive manipulation tools used by the elite (if I have understood him correctly). I think there may be very important messages in the Bible but it can also be a very clever mind-control tool created by the rulers of the world at the time when the Bible was written.

[deckard]

True, but we better make sure that the foundation is as solid as the high Christian priests claim it is. David Icke says that all religions are just massive manipulation tools used by the elite (if I have understood him correctly). I think there may be very important messages in the Bible but it can also be a very clever mind-control tool created by the rulers of the world at the time when the Bible was written.

Its just about following good morals and principles, do unto others as you would like them to do unto you, your reading far too much into it.

[Anders Lindman]

This guy is just talking a load of old pyscho babble bollocks. Looks like you'll take on board any old "guru" that spouts enough crap for you to fall for.

You think this makes you better than Christians or any other relegious type? Same sh*t different day :cool:

Hehe. Yes, Liquorman is an Advaita teacher and a disciple of Ramesh Balsekar who once was the president of a leading bank in India. That smacks a bit of Illuminati control. :D

[Anders Lindman]

Its just about following good morals and principles, do unto others as you would like them to do unto you, your reading far too much into it.

Yet, still today, there seems to be no problem of getting Christians to accept going to war. That to me is a big red warning flag right there.

[Anders Lindman]

Christians seem to be very easily persuaded of the necessity to go to war.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.

And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.

How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar. " -- Julius Caesar

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a Parliament, or a Communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Göring

[deckard]

Yet, still today, there seems to be no problem of getting Christians to accept going to war. That to me is a big red warning flag right there.

War, under what circumstances? Do you have a problem with Christiands going to war to defend their country like anyone else would, can you be more specific in your accusations?

[deckard]

Christians seem to be very easily persuaded of the necessity to go to war.


Why are you singling christians out for that?
Thats pretty much how everyone is.

[thirdwave]

My life is complete now that I have all knowledge from someone who really knows. Yay!

read that comment again and really look at what you just said.

[Anders Lindman]

War, under what circumstances? Do you have a problem with Christiands going to war to defend their country like anyone else would, can you be more specific in your accusations?

A true Christian would not defend his or her country using violence. That's how I understand the New Testament. I have forgotten much of the New Testament. I think I will read it again. I could have missed or forgotten something.

[Anders Lindman]

Why are you singling christians out for that?
Thats pretty much how everyone is.

I thought that non-violence was a prime objective of Christianity. :confused:

[thirdwave]

Beyond self and Identity. Beyond the me and you -- there is the I and thou. No difference. If I allow you to die, then I die. If I save you then I save myself, even if I die. No way to see this if you don't already understand it.

yeah yeah yeah,

the bottom line though is life is supposed to be sacred... it is not there to be killed by us, its there for us to nourish...

Any man who comes and allows him self to be slaughtered to death to teach me something will have more my sympathy than respect...

Especially if you where to believe this man was God, or at least Gods divine messenger.. you would have thought they would have had some better tools to work with.... or maybe you don't.

[deckard]

A true Christian would not defend his or her country using violence. That's how I understand the New Testament. I have forgotten much of the New Testament. I think I will read it again. I could have missed or forgotten something.

I dont think you have any right to critisise Christians on one hand, and tell them how they should be on the other.
Christians have as much right to use violence if they are being attacked, or their country is being attacked as anyone else does.

You seem to me, to be looking for an easy target that you will only have the courage to fight, if it isnt allowed to fight back, which would make you a coward.

Sorry but the only time this Christian turns the other cheek when being assaulted, is to reach for another can of whoop arse.
You would be attacking the wrong guy if you tried to fight me and think I would let you beat me up, because you thought I am not allowed to fight back, according to what you foolishly believe anyway.

If you were in your house and got attacked in a home invasion and your neighbors were Christians, would you prefer they came and saved you, and had to use violence as a resort in order to do so, or would you prefer they just stayed safely away, and prayed for divine intervention on your behalf instead?

[deckard]

I thought that non-violence was a prime objective of Christianity. :confused:

It is, to a certain point.

[deckard]

A true Christian

Seeing as your not even one yourself, I dont think you have any right to decide what you think makes a true Christian or not.

Would I talk like an idiot to a muslim on here, and tell him what I think a true muslim should be?

[Anders Lindman]

I dont think you have any right to critisise Christians on one hand, and tell them how they should be on the other.
Christians have as much right to use violence if they are being attacked, or their country is being attacked as anyone else does.

You seem to me, to be looking for an easy target that you will only have the courage to fight, if it isnt allowed to fight back, which would make you a coward.

Sorry but the only time this Christian turns the other cheek when being assaulted, is to reach for another can of whoop arse.
You would be attacking the wrong guy if you tried to fight me and think I would let you beat me up, because you thought I am not allowed to fight back, according to what you foolishly believe anyway.

If you were in your house and got attacked in a home invasion and your neighbors were Christians, would you prefer they came and saved you, and had to use violence as a resort in order to do so, or would you prefer they just stayed safely away, and prayed for divine intervention on your behalf instead?

I can understand that Christians like everybody else want to defend themselves. But it just seems that Christians in the U.S. for example are very pro war. As Julius Caesar said: Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war...

"Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains." -- Matthew 24:4-8 [my emphasis]

[deckard]

yawn, I'm going to bed, I'll answer your anti christian rantings tomorrow.

[Anders Lindman]

Seeing as your not even one yourself, I dont think you have any right to decide what you think makes a true Christian or not.

Would I talk like an idiot to a muslim on here, and tell him what I think a true muslim should be?

I know much more about Christianity than about Islam. I have read some of the Quran but I need to read more to get a better understanding.

And there is also what Ken Wilber calls zone #3 and zone #4 perspectives. If I for example was born in China and have grown up in the Chinese culture I have a zone #3 perspective. But if I have not done that, then even if I get a Ph.D. in the Chinese culture, I will still only have a zone #4 perspective.

Since I am a member of the Swedish Christian Church, I have kind of a zone #3 perspective of Christianity and will not get that same kind of perspective about Islam unless I lived in an Islamic culture for an extensive period of time, and even that will be limited since we download most of our deeper cultural stuff as children and are not generally able to take in a new zone #3 perspective as adults.

[aee02]

Wow. There are so many topics in this thread...

If I am remembering correctly (and I may not be) wasn't Constantine a Pagan.
I don't believe he became a Christian until he was on his death bed. He saw the sign of the "cross" in a vision before going into battle and put it on the shields and flags of his soldiers and as a result they won the battle. Constantine also used Christianity as a political move (doesn't this sound familar?) in order to consolidate the masses, because there were so many different cults of that time that were causing internal conflict.

There is violence and love in the Bible. The themes seem to center around God granting what humans need and then humans taking it for themselves and kicking God to the curb with the chaos that always ensues afterwards.

There does appear to be a lot of sacrifice and death involved in scripture. I don't really have an opinion on that one and would need to research it more.

Christianity, as other religions are as well, is a very violent religion. Its dogma interpreted by people on the same self-serving theme as explained above in scripture continually conspires for more war. It is hard to reconcile what is God's way and what is our own using what WE think is God's way.

Christian dogma in the sense of its mainline media has caused a rift between me and my family. Scripture has been used to divide us. At the same time, there is other scripture that gives me peace to forgive and hope for a day of understanding and reconcilement. It is admittedly a duality that is hard to live with... :confused:

[aee02]

The video games are scary to me. As an adult of course I think I could distinguish between reality and the game. I have however seen some scary recruitment using those kind of violent games.

I was attending an annual town celebration when I noticed a military recruiting station. It conprised of a large tent sort of like the big-top circus style with video games inside.

What I saw horrified me. There were kids who looked to be 10-11 years old playing these killing games as soldiers looked on and sometimes were giving instructions. I also noticed the soldiers handing out leaflets afterwards.

Its not that I am anti-soldier in the sense of grouping them together as people to hate or discriminate. I feel sorry for them. Recruiters show up at their high schools where there is no future for them but to join up. Some are also encouraged so they can get a college degree. That sounds great to them until they find themselves at an Iraqi road block thinking, "I just wanted a computer degree."

There are those soldiers who believe they are preserving freedom and it admirable that they would sacrifice themselves for their buddies. My ex-husband was a Ranger GI-Joe. It destroyed him. He could not discuss his mission with his family, and his commander and his Chaplain told him to "suck it up and drive on". His coping mechanism was alcholism. That destroyed our family.

There was nothing sadder than when I witnessed my father-in-law, a WWII Navy verteran who saw his buddy blown up in front of him consoling my nephew-in-law after two tours of Iraq breaking down from having to kill a 13 yr old kid with a bomb strapped to him.

"War is Hell". Gen. Sherman-Union forces, US Civil War

Is it freedom or it our need for those comforts that cause exploitation of others? I'm not judging. It is a question I am asking of myself. Where have I failed.:(

[Anders Lindman]

I took a quick look in the Quran. It talks about Abraham, and of being guided by Noah, and giving praise to his descendants: David, Salomo, Job, Josef, Moses, Aaron - so we reward them, who do good - Zacharias, Johannes, Jesus, Elijah, all of them righteous. [I hope I got the names right - translation from Swedish]

That sounds very much like the Bible!

[Anders Lindman]

What I saw horrified me. There were kids who looked to be 10-11 years old playing these killing games as soldiers looked on and sometimes were giving instructions. I also noticed the soldiers handing out leaflets afterwards.


That's more scary than what I was thinking about which was kids playing violent war and fantasy games at home. Having the military instructing the kids sounds nastier. Instructing adults through computer simulations, ok, that I can understand, but to instruct kids using a similar kind of simulation software seems a bit nasty.

[thirdwave]

Sorry but the only time this Christian turns the other cheek when being assaulted, is to reach for another can of whoop arse.

I think the thing about christians letting you slap the other cheek is the best part about them... :)

[Anders Lindman]

Alex Jones seems to be more of a 'correct' Christian than George W. Bush, yet millions of Christians, maybe even the vast majority of Christians in the U.S. follow George W. Bush as if he was sent from God or something. Maybe I'm exaggerating but that's the impression I get from listening to the media etc.

[bigus_dickus]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult, just like much else on this planet at the moment and throughout history.

what is a "death cult"?

Do you think an advanced being would want to have himself nailed to a cross?! Please.

what is an advanced being? and how would you know what an advanced being would want (regardless of what really happened of course), given that YOU are not an advanced being? or are you?

Only a mentally ill person would act in such sadomasochistic way. An advanced being is mentally sane per definition.

in which case do you see in Christianity an advanced being (God, angel, or Jesus) act in a sadomasochistic way?

how do you define mental sanity?

[Anders Lindman]

what is a "death cult"?



what is an advanced being? and how would you know what an advanced being would want (regardless of what really happened of course), given that YOU are not an advanced being? or are you?



in which case do you see in Christianity an advanced being (God, angel, or Jesus) act in a sadomasochistic way?

how do you define mental sanity?

Our entire world is a death cult. By an advanced being I mean here someone who has the power to avoid getting crucified for example. I'm certainly not an advanced being, although we all have the potential to become that I believe. By willfully letting yourself be crucified when you have the power to prevent that is what I called sadomasochistic and being mentally ill. Mental sanity is many things. For example considering sacrifice wrong is sanity. :D

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Our entire world is a death cult. By an advanced being I mean here someone who has the power to avoid getting crucified for example. I'm certainly not an advanced being, although we all have the potential to become that I believe. By willfully letting yourself be crucified when you have the power to prevent that is what I called sadomasochistic and being mentally ill. Mental sanity is many things. For example considering sacrifice wrong is sanity. :D

Hi Anders; I understand where you are coming from, and it is apparent you do not have a grasp on the overarching Thrust of this most contentious Book. Read Plan A from Outer Space and you will be able to format your desire to debunk in a more realistic manner.

Personally, I think considering sacrifice wrong is selfish.


I am going to create a new Thread Titled: 'Debunking the Bible 101', for all the erstwhile Bible Debunkers in our midst. In order to dismantle anything it is profitable to have an intimate understanding of the 'Structure' one desires to dismantle. A common deficiency of erstwhile Bible Debunkers is: They do not have an accurate understanding of the 'Structure' they wish to dismantle, which always leads to theur frustration.

And then feelings get hurt, they perceive failure on their part because they were unsuccessful in presenting their case, due to the deficiency of their arguments, due to their deficiency in knowledge of the structure they wish to dismantle.

Crawl, Walk, Run, Stroll

I expect to see you in Class. :D

[armoured_amazon]

Jesus is God in human form and of God as a son in order for humans to connect with the Creator. He is exactly who detractors are afraid he is.

/end of thread

[Anders Lindman]

Hi Anders; I understand where you are coming from, and it is apparent you do not have a grasp on the overarching Thrust of this most contentious Book. Read Plan A from Outer Space and you will be able to format your desire to debunk in a more realistic manner.

Personally, I think considering sacrifice wrong is selfish.


I am going to create a new Thread Titled: 'Debunking the Bible 101', for all the erstwhile Bible Debunkers in our midst. In order to dismantle anything it is profitable to have an intimate understanding of the 'Structure' one desires to dismantle. A common deficiency of erstwhile Bible Debunkers is: They do not have an accurate understanding of the 'Structure' they wish to dismantle, which always leads to theur frustration.

And then feelings get hurt, they perceive failure on their part because they were unsuccessful in presenting their case, due to the deficiency of their arguments, due to their deficiency in knowledge of the structure they wish to dismantle.

Crawl, Walk, Run, Stroll

I expect to see you in Class. :D

As major seven pointed out, there may have been a right choice for Jesus to sacrifice himself. And I agree with that, so my debunking fails with that observation.

On the other hand, I still maintain that sacrifice is wrong. It depends of course on how we define sacrifice. The usual 'normal' mainstream view is that sacrifice often is something good. I want to turn that idea around and say that sacrifice is more often than not something bad.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

As major seven pointed out, there may have been a right choice for Jesus to sacrifice himself. And I agree with that, so my debunking fails with that observation.

On the other hand, I still maintain that sacrifice is wrong. It depends of course on how we define sacrifice. The usual 'normal' mainstream view is that sacrifice often is something good. I want to turn that idea around and say that sacrifice is more often than not something bad.

Hey!, it's your Fantasy, Happy Trails! :)

[Anders Lindman]

Hey!, it's your Fantasy, Happy Trails! :)

Agreed. When I claim that sacrifice is wrong, then I will likely not have many 'followers'. The odds are of course that I'm wrong, but it's interesting to examine usual concepts we have been conditioned to take for granted.

[Anders Lindman]

Maybe instead of saying that sacrifice is wrong, it would be more correct to say that one should have a balance of the 'Force'. This means to think BOTH of oneself AND others in one's actions. People say it's good to be selfless. Well, it's not good to be selfless according to this balance of the Force theory.

[armoured_amazon]

Maybe instead of saying that sacrifice is wrong, it would be more correct to say that one should have a balance of the 'Force'. This means to think BOTH of oneself AND others in one's actions. People say it's good to be selfless. Well, it's not good to be selfless according to this balance of the Force theory.

That's the best way.

[bigus_dickus]

Our entire world is a death cult.

i don't get it..

By an advanced being I mean here someone who has the power to avoid getting crucified for example.

so.. in your own words, you're telling me that an advanced being can choose to lie, or pretend, or renounce its advancement in being whenever circumstances demand it. yet, that's not an advanced being in any aspect at all.. it's just your version.

or else, what kind of powers are you talking about?

I'm certainly not an advanced being, although we all have the potential to become that I believe. By willfully letting yourself be crucified when you have the power to prevent that is what I called sadomasochistic and being mentally ill. Mental sanity is many things. For example considering sacrifice wrong is sanity. :D

where does Jesus appears to think of sacrifice as right, in your opinion? and what makes you think that he actually did think it was right?

you are suggesting that he would be clapping his hands in joy and excitement on the cross had they been not nailed?

and that he would reward the people who crucified him, for doing the right thing?

has Jesus ever sacrificed anyone? (of course not referring to his hypothetical powers that would allow him to free himself and float into the air like a balloon)

or has Jesus ever suggested that anyone should be sacrificed, or that any sacrifice is right?

[Anders Lindman]

That's the best way.

And even sacrifice can fit that notion. If I sacrifice myself, then obviously I'm following what I believe is the right thing to do, and so I then serve my own interests. And I also serve the interests of others (at least one would hope) by sacrificing myself for the sake of others.

Anthony De Mello talked about similar things. Here is a short video clip with him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNLeFgColiw

[Anders Lindman]

i don't get it..



so.. in your own words, you're telling me that an advanced being can choose to lie, or pretend, or renounce its advancement in being whenever circumstances demand it. yet, that's not an advanced being in any aspect at all.. it's just your version.

or else, what kind of powers are you talking about?



where does Jesus appears to think of sacrifice as right, in your opinion? and what makes you think that he actually did think it was right?

you are suggesting that he would be clapping his hands in joy and excitement on the cross had they been not nailed?

and that he would reward the people who crucified him, for doing the right thing?

has Jesus ever sacrificed anyone? (of course not referring to his hypothetical powers that would allow him to free himself and float into the air like a balloon)

or has Jesus ever suggested that anyone should be sacrificed, or that any sacrifice is right?

An advanced being will move into circumstances with a great deal of control. Think about it, how little control we ordinary humans have!

Jesus' sacrifice could have been a necessary action to prevent humanity from falling into a great pit of suffering.

I think Jesus tried to tell us that the reward we get will come through our own deeds.

Jesus sacrificed himself (to suffer on the cross).

[Anders Lindman]

Here's another video with Anthony De Mello:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUfBHoVNkok

Some interesting ideas, but I don't agree with everything he says.

[pleasuredome]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult, just like much else on this planet at the moment and throughout history. Do you think an advanced being would want to have himself nailed to a cross?! Please. Only a mentally ill person would act in such sadomasochistic way. An advanced being is mentally sane per definition.

I rest my briefcase. :cool:

in my opinion, there is a reminder of our greater selves/self in many things in life, particularly religion. the madness comes when people take whats written or what they are told literally and so dogmatically.

[bigus_dickus]

An advanced being will move into circumstances with a great deal of control. Think about it, how little control we ordinary humans have!

what do you mean how little control we ordinary humans have? control of what? what would an advanced being, in your opinion, have control of? other human beings maybe? other minds? God? reality? life? your idea of an advanced human being, is nothing but the idea of absolute selfishness. no wonder why then you believe to have debunked Christianity with a single pedantic argument that has been being used for thousands of years. i'd say that your debunking skills are minimal and need revision :D

Jesus' sacrifice could have been a necessary action to prevent humanity from falling into a great pit of suffering.

Jesus could have avoided all that, if he told the leaders what they wanted to hear. but he didn't. all he had to do was say a few words that he knew they were lies, but he didn't. he didn't need to do an "abracatabra" type of thing and blow everyone up or something, all it would take would be to deny himself. but.. as the book says, he didn't.

now, we can say and argue that Jesus had foreseen how his words and deeds would affect humanity for ages later.. or not. but that's irrelevant to what the books say that he said and did. of course, we can never know what he really said and did, we can only read the books and either accept it, or doubt it.
nevertheless, the people themselves who wrote the books might have their own idea of how these things would affect people, to "prevent humanity from falling into a great pit of suffering", as you say, but this necessity of sacrifice could have existed in these authors' minds only.

I think Jesus tried to tell us that the reward we get will come through our own deeds.

Jesus sacrificed himself (to suffer on the cross).

Jesus didn't try to tell us anything. what he had to say, he said it loud and clear and didn't take it back, even when his life was threatened. they beat him up, humiliated him, treated him like dirt and killed him, all because he wouldn't confess human authority and obedience to a human master. and you call this a sacrifice.

maybe if it was your case, you would have pretended to be one of 'them' and actually join them, in order to save your life. and you would think of this as the right thing to do.

but that, instead of debunking Christianity, is nothing more but validating it :)

[Anders Lindman]

in my opinion, there is a reminder of our greater selves/self in many things in life, particularly religion. the madness comes when people take whats written or what they are told literally and so dogmatically.

Ken Wilber talked about how religion includes things that cannot be found in other areas such as science, and I agree that religion probably plays an important part in our world.

[Anders Lindman]

what do you mean how little control we ordinary humans have? control of what? what would an advanced being, in your opinion, have control of? other human beings maybe? other minds? God? reality? life? your idea of an advanced human being, is nothing but the idea of absolute selfishness. no wonder why then you believe to have debunked Christianity with a single pedantic argument that has been being used for thousands of years. i'd say that your debunking skills are minimal and need revision :D



Jesus could have avoided all that, if he told the leaders what they wanted to hear. but he didn't. all he had to do was say a few words that he knew they were lies, but he didn't. he didn't need to do an "abracatabra" type of thing and blow everyone up or something, all it would take would be to deny himself. but.. as the book says, he didn't.

now, we can say and argue that Jesus had foreseen how his words and deeds would affect humanity for ages later.. or not. but that's irrelevant to what the books say that he said and did. of course, we can never know what he really said and did, we can only read the books and either accept it, or doubt it.
nevertheless, the people themselves who wrote the books might have their own idea of how these things would affect people, to "prevent humanity from falling into a great pit of suffering", as you say, but this necessity of sacrifice could have existed in these authors' minds only.



Jesus didn't try to tell us anything. what he had to say, he said it loud and clear and didn't take it back, even when his life was threatened. they beat him up, humiliated him, treated him like dirt and killed him, all because he wouldn't confess human authority and obedience to a human master. and you call this a sacrifice.

maybe if it was your case, you would have pretended to be one of 'them' and actually join them, in order to save your life. and you would think of this as the right thing to do.

but that, instead of debunking Christianity, is nothing more but validating it :)

An advanced being can sense a much larger field of reality than an ordinary person. For example, an advanced being could make perfect financial investments by sensing the actual flow of the economy. An ordinary person has far less power and has to rely on guesses or listen to what 'experts' tell them about how to invest their money. On the other hand, an advanced being would not be interested in making financial investments because he or she would not waste effort on things like that, unless for some special reason. An advanced being is fully selfish.

If we assume that Jesus was an advanced being, he could have prevented his own crucifixion, but he didn't and that indicates that he sacrificed himself.

I don't think it was like you said, that Jesus refused to obey humans just out of stubbornness. If we assume that Jesus was an advanced being, maybe even The most advanced being, then he sacrificed himself for a precise purpose.

[Anders Lindman]

As Anthony De Mello said, a person who sacrifices himself or herself is still being selfish. That's accurate. A person acts from his or her on set of values. The difference I believe De Mello talked about is that an 'awaken' person has an expanded sense of self. If we have a narrow sense of self, then being selfish tend to be 'bad' such as greed and so on. It's not really bad but rather a consequence of having a too narrow sense of self.

[Anders Lindman]

I have been thinking about how to expand one's sense of self, without becoming like a hive-mind Borg. To prevent that kind of 'flatland' (to borrow a term from Ken Wilber) Oneness we need to keep our integrity intact, integrity in the sense of being fully individual and not some part of a hive-mind unity.

One idea is that we should expand our selfishness, almost to the point of being rude and arrogant, without stepping too much on other people's toes. To expand ourselves as selfish individuals within strict ethical boundaries. Otherwise we will fall into the hive-mind Oneness trap.

[dharmanation]

I think there is definitely a big difference between Jesus vs. Christianity. The two are not only in no way synonymous, but they have zero to do with each other. Jesus was a revolutionary teacher / Christianity is a monstrous institution that has murdered reality in the name of Jesus.

[Anders Lindman]

I think there is definitely a big difference between Jesus vs. Christianity. The two are not only in no way synonymous, but they have zero to do with each other. Jesus was a revolutionary teacher / Christianity is a monstrous institution that has murdered reality in the name of Jesus.

Hmm... I didn't think of that in this thread. There is a difference in the sense that Christianity is a religion, while Jesus if he existed/exists, is not a religion.

The good thing about Christianity is that it is so massive and has so vast historical record. Enormous horrors have been done in the name of Christianity, but it also has great value I believe, and Christianity however dogmatic does evolve and slowly becomes more civilized.

[deckard]

I think there is definitely a big difference between Jesus vs. Christianity. The two are not only in no way synonymous, but they have zero to do with each other. Jesus was a revolutionary teacher / Christianity is a monstrous institution that has murdered reality in the name of Jesus.

Christianity is the boyscouts compared to Islam, yet its Christianity that is always in your sights, stop the grandstanding and just admit you hate christianity.

[deckard]

I think the thing about christians letting you slap the other cheek is the best part about them... :)

Not me, I usually block or duck the first slap, or counterpunch before it even begins, no forgiveness here either pal.

[armoured_amazon]

Not me, I usually block or duck the first slap, or counterpunch before it even begins, no forgiveness here either pal.

Oh I'll let them get in the first slap; then I floor them.

[deckard]

Oh I'll let them get in the first slap; then I floor them.

Not me anymore, what right have they got to slap me first anyway, if I detect a slap coming, I just punch them through a table, and if they get up I break a chair over their head.

[armoured_amazon]

Not me anymore, what right have they got to slap me first anyway, if I detect a slap coming, I just punch them through a table, and if they get up I break a chair over their head.

:D

[twistedconcept]

Alex Jones seems to be more of a 'correct' Christian than George W. Bush, yet millions of Christians, maybe even the vast majority of Christians in the U.S. follow George W. Bush as if he was sent from God or something. Maybe I'm exaggerating but that's the impression I get from listening to the media etc.

George Bush isn't a true Christian. He uses religion for his own purposes.

[Anders Lindman]

George Bush isn't a true Christian. He uses religion for his own purposes.

And also it's perhaps a cultural thing. In America it's almost as if the president must say: "God bless America" in every key speech. In Sweden it would be considered silly, maybe even among the hardcore Christians, if the Prime Minister said in a speech: "God bless Sweden" :D

[deckard]

And also it's perhaps a cultural thing. In America it's almost as if the president must say: "God bless America" in every key speech. In Sweden it would be considered silly, maybe even among the hardcore Christians, if the Prime Minister said in a speech: "God bless Sweden" :D

I think its cool, I wish our primeminister did the same.

[Anders Lindman]

I think its cool, I wish our primeminister did the same.

When it comes to ceremonies with the King and the Swedish Royal Family, then I think they use something like 'Gud bevare Konungen och Fosterlandet/Kungariket' (God preserve the King and the Kingdom) and expressions like that in speeches.

http://livefromsweden.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/kungafamiljen.jpg

[armoured_amazon]

LOL @ their dresses

[deckard]

LOL @ their dresses

she looks like shes been working out.

[armoured_amazon]

she looks like shes been working out.

Heh, which one? The orange one? I think that's just fake tan rofl

*sigh* You remind me, I really need to get back to the gym but I won't go until my immune system's back up to scratch.

eta: That one on the right has funny eyes lol

[deckard]

Heh, which one? The orange one? I think that's just fake tan rofl
*sigh* You remind me, I really need to get back to the gym but I won't go until my immune system's back up to scratch.
eta: That one on the right has funny eyes lol

no the girl in the yellow dress, she looks like an olympic swimmer.

[Anders Lindman]

LOL @ their dresses

Hehe. I think the royal family is cool. Valuable tradition. Sweden also has massive Christian tradition going back for more than a millennium I think, although religion has a much smaller role in Sweden today.

[thirdwave]

Not me, I usually block or duck the first slap, or counterpunch before it even begins, no forgiveness here either pal.

well that's good, as i agree, if one is to slap somone then they should receive one right back... nothing wrong with exercising some instant karma... makes gods work easier.

[deckard]

well that's good, as i agree, if one is to slap somone then they should receive one right back... nothing wrong with exercising some instant karma... makes gods work easier.

Exactly, who are they to judge.

[armoured_amazon]

Hehe. I think the royal family is cool. Valuable tradition. Sweden also has massive Christian tradition going back for more than a millennium I think, although religion has a much smaller role in Sweden today.

It seems similar to Norways (i.e. younger and more cool than ours lololol). My friend is Norwegian.

[haukipesukone]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult, just like much else on this planet at the moment and throughout history. Do you think an advanced being would want to have himself nailed to a cross?! Please. Only a mentally ill person would act in such sadomasochistic way. An advanced being is mentally sane per definition.

I rest my briefcase. :cool:

What's wrong with being mentally ill, or sadomasochism? You're making me like Jesus more.


What I don't get is: if Jesus was such a nice guy and Christians revere him and all that, why do they also exult his death by using cricifixes? Jesus was murdered by secular authorities for secular reasons, and Christians have made it out to be a good thing. That's screwed up.

How exactly does Christ redeem all of humanity's sins by being brutally slain? The death of Christ is more like a story on condemning humanity. If you accept that Jesus was the son of God (which I don't) and all aroung good guy, how is it supposed to wash away humanity's sins that he's betrayed and murdered? The result is opposite in my opinion, proof that humanity is a lot of backstabbing cowardly bastards.

Many teachings in Christianity are inverted. The garden of Eden and the fall. It's supposedly a bad thing that Adam and Eve eat the fruit and gain wisdom, but the murder of Jesus is a good thing? It should be the other way around.

[armoured_amazon]

What's wrong with being mentally ill, or sadomasochism? You're making me like Jesus more.


What I don't get is: if Jesus was such a nice guy and Christians revere him and all that, why do they also exult his death by using cricifixes? Jesus was murdered by secular authorities for secular reasons, and Christians have made it out to be a good thing. That's screwed up.

How exactly does Christ redeem all of humanity's sins by being brutally slain? The death of Christ is more like a story on condemning humanity. If you accept that Jesus was the son of God (which I don't) and all aroung good guy, how is it supposed to wash away humanity's sins that he's betrayed and murdered? The result is opposite in my opinion, proof that humanity is a lot of backstabbing cowardly bastards.

Many teachings in Christianity are inverted. The garden of Eden and the fall. It's supposedly a bad thing that Adam and Eve eat the fruit and gain wisdom, but the murder of Jesus is a good thing? It should be the other way around.

We don't have any crucifixes or other representations of Jesus. :)

[haukipesukone]

We don't have any crucifixes or other representations of Jesus. :)

Who do you mean by "we"? Catholics at least use crosses.

But that's beside the point. Isn't the death of Christ supposed to redeem humanity? If so I fail to see the reason how/why.

[deckard]

Many teachings in Christianity are inverted. The garden of Eden and the fall. It's supposedly a bad thing that Adam and Eve eat the fruit and gain wisdom, but the murder of Jesus is a good thing? It should be the other way around.

Not wisdom, knowlege, which considering the state of the planet, and the way people treat each other is maybe not such a good thing after all.

I think most people if they had a choice of living in the present world, or living in an earthy paradise, where the world was one giant lush garden, with nothing at all dangerous in it.

Where food was always plentiful, wher the air was fresh and pure, the water crystal clear and sweet to drink, where you never got sick, not even a cough, where you didnt need clothes because it never got cold or too hot, where all the animals were friendly and peaceful, towards you and you to them.

I think most people would forsake knowlege and choose that place in a heartbeat, especially if their in the third world, starving or dying of aids.

[armoured_amazon]

Who do you mean by "we"? Catholics at least use crosses.

But that's beside the point. Isn't the death of Christ supposed to redeem humanity? If so I fail to see the reason how/why.

Catholicism is a cult. You mistake those of us who follow the teachings of Jesus and endeavour to be 'Christ-like' with those who are blinded by satan and follow ritual and idol worship.

[haukipesukone]

Not wisdom, knowlege, which considering the state of the planet, and the way people treat each other is maybe not such a good thing afterall.

I think most people if they had a choice of living in the present world, or living in an earthy paradise, where the world was one giant lush garden, with nothing at all dangerous in it.

Where food was always plentiful, where you never got sick, not even a cough, where you didnt need clothes because it never got cold or too hot, where all the animals were friendly and peaceful; towards you and you to them.

I think most people would forsake knowlege and choose that place in a heartbeat, especially if their in the third world, starving or dying of aids.

That makes sense, especially if you compare it with the Credo Mutwa interview, how the chitauri forced people to forsake their telepatchic abilities for other stuff. I think also in an interview by Robert Temple (author of The Sirius Mystery, which I started reading a few days ago) on Youtube he says something sort of similiar.

[haukipesukone]

Catholicism is a cult. You mistake those of us who follow the teachings of Jesus and endeavour to be 'Christ-like' with those who are blinded by satan and follow ritual and idol worship.

I think you're avoiding my question. Isn't the death of Christ supposed to redeem humanity?

[armoured_amazon]

I think you're avoiding my question. Isn't the death of Christ supposed to redeem humanity?

We are redeemed because we are with Jesus, we believe He died for our sins as the ultimate sacrifice to end sacrifices (remember, Jews offered animal sacrifices to YHVH) and we have repented of our old sinful selves and become new creations. The Holy Spirit dwells within us and we have given our lives to God to remould us and make us the best that we can be.

Any deeper than that, I simply do not have the capacity to enter into right now; I have wisdom tooth ache, have been to the studio all morning and have to prepare guitar parts for tonight.

[deckard]

Catholicism is a cult. You mistake those of us who follow the teachings of Jesus and endeavour to be 'Christ-like' with those who are blinded by satan and follow ritual and idol worship.

Im a catholic, and I dont follow satan in any way at all, we arent that bad, there are alot worse people in the world than us catholics you know.

[deckard]

That makes sense, especially if you compare it with the Credo Mutwa interview, how the chitauri forced people to forsake their telepatchic abilities for other stuff. I think also in an interview by Robert Temple (author of The Sirius Mystery, which I started reading a few days ago) on Youtube he says something sort of similiar.

All our knowlege gained and to come will never really make us happy, which is what humanity wants more than anything.

And we had that already without the knowlege, and we blew it.

[armoured_amazon]

Im a catholic, and I dont follow satan in any way at all, we arent that bad, there are alot worse people in the world than us catholics you know.

Many of my family are catholics and neither do they. :)

But the Vatican is satanic. It doesn't mean God's people in the churches are.

[deckard]

Many of my family are catholics and neither do they. But the Vatican is satanic. It doesn't mean God's people in the churches are.

How do you think the vatican is satanic?

[armoured_amazon]

How do you think the vatican is satanic?

That would take me days of non-stop typing to answer. God doesn't want ritual and occult practice and catholicism is loaded with it. Christianity as a whole has been infiltrated by evil and it will only come to light at harvest time when the wheat and tares are separated. There are many 'Christian' tares.

[deckard]

That would take me days of non-stop typing to answer. God doesn't want ritual and occult practice and catholicism is loaded with it. Christianity as a whole has been infiltrated by evil and it will only come to light at harvest time when the wheat and tares are separated. There are many 'Christian' tares.

Its whats in your heart that counts the most, not necessarily how you choose to pray to Jesus.

[armoured_amazon]

Its whats in your heart that counts the most, not necessarily how you choose to pray to Jesus.

And? :) God didn't tell us to use a priest to intercede between us and Him; He told us to go directly to Jesus and God Him/themselves. The Queen of Heaven is NOT of God. Praying to Mary is anti-Scripture. Making an idol is a sin and yet Christians all around the world bow in front of statues and at the feet of priests. They call priests and bishops Father and pray to them, humans, and yet God Himself forbids it. It goes on. Jesus had no interest in material wealth and yet the Vatican is swathed in it and in the blood, sweat and tears of God's own.

[eternal_spirit]

Im a catholic, and I dont follow satan in any way at all, we arent that bad, there are alot worse people in the world than us catholics you know.

Catholics are the scapegoats and are hated by most, even though most Catholics are good and innocent people. Anyone who has done some research about the World's different religions and versions of Christianity would know Catholics are the least brainwashed of the lot and don't do weird rituals.

I've noticed all the none Catholic Christians on the forum say their version of Christianity is the true one and the Catholics are the evil Christians.

I was born Catholic and that's how I know what I typed above is true. And some of my Family/ancestors where both Irish Catholic and Protestant. The Freemason Orange Lodge and William of Orange (Dutch Nobility became the king of England, possibly related to the present day Royals, the Queen is no Catholic)

William started most of the trouble in Ireland - Years later the Catholic IRA where the resistance to the murderous Orange Lodge. Notice how the Zionist owned media always blamed the IRA (Catholics for all the trouble)

But truth is I don't follow or practice the Catholic religion. I'm like Icke he was born a Christian but doesn't follow it either.

BTW it's more PC these days to admit to being a Satanist or something than a Catholic.

[thirdwave]

How do you think the vatican is satanic?

I dont think they are satanic as such.... it seems if anyone is evil then they are called "Satanic" ... I would have thought to be satanic then you must worship "satan" as your god.

From what I have gathered about the elite and Im not so sure they are all into the same thing, but they worship the sun, which is aton ... Lucifer...

nothing to do with Satan... I do not believe they fear Christ, I think they created him... and they certainly created Satan.

and the ironic thing is... lucifer is the morning star... as is Jesus... as is Horus.

[deckard]

And? :) God didn't tell us to use a priest to intercede between us and Him; He told us to go directly to Jesus and God Him/themselves. The Queen of Heaven is NOT of God. Praying to Mary is anti-Scripture. Making an idol is a sin and yet Christians all around the world bow in front of statues and at the feet of priests. They call priests and bishops Father and pray to them, humans, and yet God Himself forbids it. It goes on. Jesus had no interest in material wealth and yet the Vatican is swathed in it and in the blood, sweat and tears of God's own.

Were not praying to them directly, thats where you guys get it totally wrong all the time, we are praying to them to help us on behalf of God who gives them his power to assiust those in need.

We are not worshipping or praying to them for who they are.
We honnour Mary with prayer as Jesus mother, we dont pray to her because she is a God.

A lot of the rituals are just mimicking what Jesus did for us when he was on Earth, like the foot washing, and sharing of bread and wine, its to honour what he did, not take it over as ours to honour ourselves with.

I agree that the vatican hordes too much wealth, but it also accomplishes alot of good with that as well, for all you know it could be getting saved up for a rainy day, to pull the church out of trouble.

The catholic Church does not go around killing and making people suffer either as you seem to be saying here, most of that is being done with no help from the church at all.

Most Christians being presently slaughtered and raped around the world, are mostly victims of muslim and hindu aggression, not catholic.

[armoured_amazon]

At the end of the day, Christians are so-called because we aim to be like Christ. Not because we want to perform ritual and elect clergy and recite incantations. Jesus didn't preach His gospel in a wealthy building, nor hide knowledge from believers. Millions of Christians of all denominations are living right. But I don't believe the Vatican is.

[eternal_spirit]

And? :) God didn't tell us to use a priest to intercede between us and Him; He told us to go directly to Jesus and God Him/themselves. The Queen of Heaven is NOT of God. Praying to Mary is anti-Scripture. Making an idol is a sin and yet Christians all around the world bow in front of statues and at the feet of priests. They call priests and bishops Father and pray to them, humans, and yet God Himself forbids it. It goes on. Jesus had no interest in material wealth and yet the Vatican is swathed in it and in the blood, sweat and tears of God's own.
I agree with most of that except.

Sorry, but it was Priesthoods who wrote the religious texts. This is the contradiciton of many Christians on the Forum. You're following teachings laws written by men not God.

But I know some Christians here will believe the opposiste lol. Like - God channeled the religious books through man.

EDIT Mary is ok. :)

[deckard]

I dont think they are satanic as such.... it seems if anyone is evil then they are called "Satanic" ... I would have thought to be satanic then you must worship "satan" as your god.
From what I have gathered about the elite and Im not so sure they are all into the same thing, but they worship the sun, which is aton ... Lucifer...
nothing to do with Satan... I do not believe they fear Christ, I think they created him... and they certainly created Satan.
and the ironic thing is... lucifer is the morning star... as is Jesus... as is Horus.

I think someone has been watching too much zeitgeist?

[armoured_amazon]

I agree with most of that except.

Sorry, but it was Priesthoods who wrote the religious texts. This is the contradiciton of many Christians on the Forum. You're following teachings laws written by men not God.

But I know some Christians here will believe the opposiste lol. Like - God channeled the religious books through man.

EDIT Mary is ok. :)

LOL your edit :D

My main guide is the Holy Spirit and God Himself. I am always aware that Scripture has been corrupted but the Holy Spirit hasn't.

[orion_morris]

Here is a nice song about Christianity

Opiate
By: Tool



Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to use you...
like me,
like me.

If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me.
Don't judge or question.
You are broken now,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My God's will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life.
Open my eyes and blind me with your light
and your lies.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=opiate+tool&www_google_domain=www.google.co.uk&emb=0&aq=2&oq=Opiate#

[armoured_amazon]

When you gonna see that your delusion
Is the cause of permanent confusion
All-consuming fire, watch the flames burn down
To the root of your hell...

[Anders Lindman]

What's wrong with being mentally ill, or sadomasochism? You're making me like Jesus more.


What I don't get is: if Jesus was such a nice guy and Christians revere him and all that, why do they also exult his death by using cricifixes? Jesus was murdered by secular authorities for secular reasons, and Christians have made it out to be a good thing. That's screwed up.

How exactly does Christ redeem all of humanity's sins by being brutally slain? The death of Christ is more like a story on condemning humanity. If you accept that Jesus was the son of God (which I don't) and all aroung good guy, how is it supposed to wash away humanity's sins that he's betrayed and murdered? The result is opposite in my opinion, proof that humanity is a lot of backstabbing cowardly bastards.

Many teachings in Christianity are inverted. The garden of Eden and the fall. It's supposedly a bad thing that Adam and Eve eat the fruit and gain wisdom, but the murder of Jesus is a good thing? It should be the other way around.

As I understand it Jesus sacrificed himself to save humanity. And maybe that was a needed thing, so my debunking is false in that sense.

Being mentally ill is wrong in the sense that there is an imbalance in the mind. By sadomasochism I meant someone who likes to hurt himself or herself, and that is a kind of mental illness.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL your edit :D

My main guide is the Holy Spirit and God Himself. I am always aware that Scripture has been corrupted but the Holy Spirit hasn't.

:D She's okay as long as he/she's not a Hairy Mary, those Ladyboys are freaky. I'm not even going to start about hermaphroditic Gods (I know terrible humor)

I've read some of your posts about the Spirit etc.
Your own personal spiritual experiences and beliefs are true to you, same as mine are too me.

Although I'd be here until next week if I tried to explain some of the things that have happened to me over the past 20 odd years. I try research every possibility and for some experiences I'm still unsure what the truth is.

Some have maybe read my posts before

Such as thoughts/ideas inspired by God, or Angels and demons or are they a product of the mind and self and internal not from some external source. Seeing visions of Buddhas, Angels, Demons etc also, hallucinations, or other dimensions/spirit realms, or HAARP/holographic man made etc.

[haukipesukone]

We are redeemed because we are with Jesus, we believe He died for our sins as the ultimate sacrifice to end sacrifices (remember, Jews offered animal sacrifices to YHVH) and we have repented of our old sinful selves and become new creations. The Holy Spirit dwells within us and we have given our lives to God to remould us and make us the best that we can be.

Any deeper than that, I simply do not have the capacity to enter into right now; I have wisdom tooth ache, have been to the studio all morning and have to prepare guitar parts for tonight.

"Jesus died for somebodys sins but not mine"

- Patti Smith - Gloria

Jesus died for the sins of them who killed him.

A God that requires blood sacrifice doesn't seem so omnipotent and great. That's not my god. I certainly don't need nor want Jesus to redeem me.

Like you said, blood sacrifice is a Jewish thing. Why do Christians do it?

I hope your tooth gets better.

All our knowlege gained and to come will never really make us happy, which is what humanity wants more than anything.


That's the reason we never get happiness. Because we want it.

And? :) God didn't tell us to use a priest to intercede between us and Him; He told us to go directly to Jesus and God Him/themselves. The Queen of Heaven is NOT of God. Praying to Mary is anti-Scripture. Making an idol is a sin and yet Christians all around the world bow in front of statues and at the feet of priests. They call priests and bishops Father and pray to them, humans, and yet God Himself forbids it. It goes on. Jesus had no interest in material wealth and yet the Vatican is swathed in it and in the blood, sweat and tears of God's own.

Can't disagree with that.


At the end of the day, Christians are so-called because we aim to be like Christ. Not because we want to perform ritual and elect clergy and recite incantations. Jesus didn't preach His gospel in a wealthy building, nor hide knowledge from believers. Millions of Christians of all denominations are living right. But I don't believe the Vatican is.

You want to be like Christ? Be murdered brutally and unjustly?

I do agree that most Christians aim to be like Christ, that's why they never get even close to him.

As I understand it Jesus sacrificed himself to save humanity. And maybe that was a needed thing, so my debunking is false in that sense.

Being mentally ill is wrong in the sense that there is an imbalance in the mind. By sadomasochism I meant someone who likes to hurt himself or herself, and that is a kind of mental illness.

I still don't get it how exactly him suffering on the cross is meant to save humanity. You can argue it was God's plan, and God works in mysterious ways, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

The way I see it. Jesus preached ideas that were revolutionary and the secular authorities didn't like it. They killed him, then perverted his legacy and ideas to make the people who were crossed with them do as they say. The Pharisees killed Jesus and hi-jacked his ideas to use for their own gain.

Who here hasn't any imbalance in the mind? I think a bit of imbalance every now and then helps.

[armoured_amazon]

Murdered and unjustly are the last thing I think of when I think of Jesus. Firstly I think of how he treated others and how he remained firm.

[Anders Lindman]

I still don't get it how exactly him suffering on the cross is meant to save humanity. You can argue it was God's plan, and God works in mysterious ways, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

The way I see it. Jesus preached ideas that were revolutionary and the secular authorities didn't like it. They killed him, then perverted his legacy and ideas to make the people who were crossed with them do as they say. The Pharisees killed Jesus and hi-jacked his ideas to use for their own gain.

Who here hasn't any imbalance in the mind? I think a bit of imbalance every now and then helps.

I haven't studied religions much, so the idea that Jesus had to suffer on the cross to save humanity is a mystery to me, but it COULD be true and therefore my debunking fails.

Imbalance in the mind need not be much of a problem, and could even be a needed step to go into more healthier states of mind, but Jesus Christ is supposed to be a supreme being.

[thirdwave]

Murdered and unjustly are the last thing I think of when I think of Jesus. Firstly I think of how he treated others and how he remained firm.

but i thought he was meant to be killed ?

[lostinstrangeworld]

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/D...leContents.htm

http://www.evilbible.com/

[armoured_amazon]

but i thought he was meant to be killed ?

And?

[thirdwave]

And?

And not unjust...

if he came to live and was killed then it would be unjust.. but he did not, he came to die... that was his mission.

no?

[orion_morris]

we are not even sure he exhisted....

Why is their no actual artwork of him...

Their is art work of other people from his era....

You would think that if he was walking around spreading the truth and healing cripples somebody would have at least drawn up a sketch of him...

[Anders Lindman]

we are not even sure he exhisted....

Why is their no actual artwork of him...

Their is art work of other people from his era....

You would think that if he was walking around spreading the truth and healing cripples somebody would have at least drawn up a sketch of him...

But it still seems very difficult to debunk Christianity. Take Jesus walking on water for example. He could have done that using some advanced anti-grav ET technology or maybe he could alter the gravity of his body through the mind. :confused:

[dharmanation]

Christianity is the boyscouts compared to Islam, yet its Christianity that is always in your sights, stop the grandstanding and just admit you hate christianity.

I would certainly agree that Islam is significantly worse in its historical atrocities in comparison to Christianity. All three of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) are artificial theological constructs that have been responsible for unimaginable atrocities toward humanity and civilization.

As for your comment that "..its Christianity that is always in your sights...", I'm not sure exactly how you would have a basis for making such a comment about me, since the above was only my second public comment on the David Icke Forum ever, the first being on an unrelated issue. I'm not quite sure how you can claim that I "always" do anything with only one message to go by. Do you have a secret listening device in my home, Deckard? :p

No. I don't have much hatred in me toward anything. I believe in loving my neighbor as I do myself. I do, however, have a healthy aversion for ignoramuses who display hatred and anger toward fellow-forum members who simply wish to state an opinion. Do you have a mirror available in your padded cell, Deck?

God bless.

[dharmanation]

Hmm... I didn't think of that in this thread. There is a difference in the sense that Christianity is a religion, while Jesus if he existed/exists, is not a religion.

The good thing about Christianity is that it is so massive and has so vast historical record. Enormous horrors have been done in the name of Christianity, but it also has great value I believe, and Christianity however dogmatic does evolve and slowly becomes more civilized.

Thanks for your kind comments, Anders. I like your Thor's Hammer avatar. Truthfully, I believe that the actual historical Jesus would probably have felt more at home associating with Asatruar than with anyone who would call themselves "Hebrew" or "Christian" today. Take care.

[Anders Lindman]

Thanks for your kind comments, Anders. I like your Thor's Hammer avatar. Truthfully, I believe that the actual historical Jesus would probably have felt more at home associating with Asatruar than with anyone who would call themselves "Hebrew" or "Christian" today. Take care.

Yes, Thor's hammer Mjölner. I was thinking about finding some Christian image to use as an avatar, but that would make me seem too pro-Christian I think. Heck, I'm not even sure a thing like marriage is a good idea. That's not very Christian to have such controversial ideas I guess. :D

[bigus_dickus]

An advanced being can sense a much larger field of reality than an ordinary person.

why?

For example, an advanced being could make perfect financial investments by sensing the actual flow of the economy. An ordinary person has far less power and has to rely on guesses or listen to what 'experts' tell them about how to invest their money.

that's not a "spiritually" advanced being, that's a clever human being experienced in economics. he doesn't need to sense anything, his experience will guide his intuition.

An advanced being is fully selfish.

why?

If we assume that Jesus was an advanced being, he could have prevented his own crucifixion, but he didn't and that indicates that he sacrificed himself.

only if you think that an advanced being is fully selfish. if you do, then Jesus was no way near being an advanced being. according to your definition of an "advanced" being, Jesus was a bum.

I don't think it was like you said, that Jesus refused to obey humans just out of stubbornness. If we assume that Jesus was an advanced being, maybe even The most advanced being, then he sacrificed himself for a precise purpose.

that's not like what i said at all.

maybe you have to stop assuming that Jesus was an advanced being. to me, he wasn't. Jesus was not advanced, did not have special power and abilities, he was not a wizard and he was not a financial consultant, a lawyer, a businessman, a politician, a general or a priest. he was the simplest human being, a servant to all and the dude at the corner with something interesting to say. he did not sacrifice himself or anyone, he was just being him until the end. if you want to see "advanced" beings, look the other way, the exact opposite.

[bigus_dickus]

i'd like to add that Jesus would have really sacrificed himself, if he had pretended to be someone else. that would be the real kill in his case.

he didn't, so he lives forever. and i don't mean supernaturally, i mean historically.

we've been through this discussion about sacrifice again, but it seems that you still equate sacrifice with loss of human life. the word sacrifice does not mean death, it means offering. when you sacrifice material things (like, for example, when you say "i sacrificed this and that to achieve that"), what you mean is offering your personal labor or possessions for a higher purpose. and offering some of your labor or possessions and even your own life for a higher purpose, is "making it sacred", hence a sacrifice. Jesus did not make a ritualistic offering to God, like people who make sacrifices do. therefore he did not sacrifice himself with his own hands. his execution was that of a common criminal, among other common criminals who were being crucified for the crimes that they did. but, were the thieves ritually sacrificed? nope. was Jesus ritually sacrificed? nope as well.

why Jesus' death has been considered as a sacrifice for humanity, as i mention in a previous post, is only because of how the authors of the books presented it, as an effort to rationalize and justify the Christian religion to the people. since people have been reading and believing the words in these books, they have been having many various ideas of his death's impact to humanity. one of these ideas, is that Jesus' death has freed humanity of its debt of sin. it's just an idea though.

[Anders Lindman]

why?

that's not a "spiritually" advanced being, that's a clever human being experienced in economics. he doesn't need to sense anything, his experience will guide his intuition.

why?

only if you think that an advanced being is fully selfish. if you do, then Jesus was no way near being an advanced being. according to your definition of an "advanced" being, Jesus was a bum.

that's not like what i said at all.

maybe you have to stop assuming that Jesus was an advanced being. to me, he wasn't. Jesus was not advanced, did not have special power and abilities, he was not a wizard and he was not a financial consultant, a lawyer, a businessman, a politician, a general or a priest. he was the simplest human being, a servant to all and the dude at the corner with something interesting to say. he did not sacrifice himself or anyone, he was just being him until the end. if you want to see "advanced" beings, look the other way, the exact opposite.

The reason an advanced being can sense a larger field of reality is because their sense of self is larger than ours. We have the potential to do the same but for that our vast amount of fear needs to be transmuted into 'aliveness'.

No, no. A clever human experienced in economics will not have a clue how to make risk-free investments, unless he or she is one of the top manipulators who control the markets. An advanced being could make perfect investments, but would not do it if it would cause harm to others. It's like in the Transformers movie where one Transformer says (when they are hiding from innocent humans): "We could take them out" and then the leader says: "You know that we don't harm humans" and then the first Transformer says something like: "Yes I know, but I meant we COULD take them out" :D

An advanced being is fully selfish. We too are ALWAYS fully selfish. Even when we do good deeds, like feeding the homeless, we still always act from our own set of values. The difference is that an advanced being has a much larger sense of self which integrates those affected by his or her actions.

Jesus was 'One with the Father'. This means that his sense of self included/includes all the fricken universe!

Ok, I misunderstood you, but to me Jesus was an advanced being, not at all an ordinary human.

[Anders Lindman]

i'd like to add that Jesus would have really sacrificed himself, if he had pretended to be someone else. that would be the real kill in his case.

he didn't, so he lives forever. and i don't mean supernaturally, i mean historically.

we've been through this discussion about sacrifice again, but it seems that you still equate sacrifice with loss of human life. the word sacrifice does not mean death, it means offering. when you sacrifice material things (like, for example, when you say "i sacrificed this and that to achieve that"), what you mean is offering your personal labor or possessions for a higher purpose. and offering some of your labor or possessions and even your own life for a higher purpose, is "making it sacred", hence a sacrifice. Jesus did not make a ritualistic offering to God, like people who make sacrifices do. therefore he did not sacrifice himself with his own hands. his execution was that of a common criminal, among other common criminals who were being crucified for the crimes that they did. but, were the thieves ritually sacrificed? nope. was Jesus ritually sacrificed? nope as well.

why Jesus' death has been considered as a sacrifice for humanity, as i mention in a previous post, is only because of how the authors of the books presented it, as an effort to rationalize and justify the Christian religion to the people. since people have been reading and believing the words in these books, they have been having many various ideas of his death's impact to humanity. one of these ideas, is that Jesus' death has freed humanity of its debt of sin. it's just an idea though.

I suspect the word 'sacrifice' has been used by the elite to manipulate people. The elite are like predators while we are the prey.

Nowadays I try never to sacrifice myself, and instead only do the things I want to do. I hate it when I have to sacrifice myself. :mad: It's like the hive-mind New Age idea of Oneness, which is like 'common good' Borg mentality. There is ZERO integrity in that kind of hive-mind oneness.

[Anders Lindman]

To elaborate a bit on sacrifice:

I have my will, and the world has its will. If I abandon my own will and act according to the will of all other people then my sense of self would have been diminished.

Our feelings tell us the reality of the situation. If I love helping other people, then that is NOT sacrifice. If I don't really like doing the things I need to do in order to help people, then THAT is sacrifice. And by observing your own feelings you can tell that there is something wrong with sacrifice. It's the universe's/God's way of telling us: "wrong way!"

When you do something just because you think you should out of some silly political correctness or idea of you being a glorious self-sacrificing person, while at the same time not really wanting to do it, then that's NOT love, you see.

[endlessvista]

A big part of Christianity is a death cult

The Irish version of the catholic cult is a TOTAL DEATH CULT. It represents nothing else. You should see how people in small Irish towns are OBSESSED with who died and funerals. It's bizarre.

[Anders Lindman]

The Irish version of the catholic cult is a TOTAL DEATH CULT. It represents nothing else. You should see how people in small Irish towns are OBSESSED with who died and funerals. It's bizarre.

Yikes! :eek: I think it's wrong to try to ignore death, but it seems equally wrong to be obsessed by death. It's like two sides of the same coin. I have been thinking more about aging than death lately. And been kind of obsessed by the idea of reversing aging. That could be a sign of a psychological problem, but I don't see it like that. On the contrary, I would feel foolish if I'm about to die of old age and NOT having investigated what aging is.

[eternal_spirit]

The Irish version of the catholic cult is a TOTAL DEATH CULT. It represents nothing else. You should see how people in small Irish towns are OBSESSED with who died and funerals. It's bizarre.

Tell that to the dead Catholics (IRA) and their families - who fought against the British Government and William of Orange Dutch Nobility who stole the throne and formed the Orange Order of Freemasons Orange Lodge in Ireland (Protestant who may be related to the present English Royal family who are neither Catholic)
I have family both Catholic and Protestant Irish family and many relatives over there.

There's more to it than religion it was and is about Politics wars etc.

Notice that the media always blamed the IRA (Catholics) they where the older version of the Muslim bombers.

Its fucking bullshit what some believe about Catholics, read up on other religions and see what weird blood rituals and other stuff they do.

[bigus_dickus]

The reason an advanced being can sense a larger field of reality is because their sense of self is larger than ours. We have the potential to do the same but for that our vast amount of fear needs to be transmuted into 'aliveness'.

i don't agree, i think that this is a false definition you have formed for "advancement".

i am saying this, because the 'sense of self' is something common for all beings, not only for humans, but for animals, fish, plants, birds.. even for planets or objects, if we assume that they too have some degree of consciousness. if i assume that everything around me is in some degree conscious, even the cells in my own body one by one, then the starting point of each consciousness, is the "zero point", the common ground for everything, the "I".

thus, what you want to describe as a higher sense of self, is nothing more than knowledge and wisdom about what the self can be and not the actual sense of self. it doesn't matter if i believe that i am selfish or selfless, my sense of self will remain the same and it has been the same since the beginning of my life, since i was a single cell in my mother's womb and i don't know what else before.. the difference is, i have no knowledge about it (i don't remember how it felt, because i didn't have a formed human mind, so there is no memory put in words). and that's because the sense of self, only exists NOW. you can say that it also existed 2 mins ago, but NOW is the only point of reference to know what existed 2 mins ago. it is timeless.. and this suggests that it doesn't fade or change, it is the foundation of consciousness.

An advanced being could make perfect investments, but would not do it if it would cause harm to others.

or maybe an advanced human being would not be interested in making any financial investments as this is probably not what being advanced is about. then again, in this case, the advance of the human being would only reflect in recognizing a broader array of patterns and trends and not predicting the future as you imply.

An advanced being is fully selfish. We too are ALWAYS fully selfish. Even when we do good deeds, like feeding the homeless, we still always act from our own set of values. The difference is that an advanced being has a much larger sense of self which integrates those affected by his or her actions.

that's really a different discussion, whether or not true altruism exists. we just don't know.. we can talk for hours and never conclude. philosophers have been dealing with this question for a long time and debates are still going on.

but, if we don't know if true altruism exists or not, we can't possibly know if an advanced being would be altruistic or fully selfish.

we can understand, though, by taking a look at people. do the fully selfish people seem advanced in some way? if yes, then they are advanced in what? what is their advantage? who are the fully selfish people? what are their achievements? why would i want to be like them?

Jesus was 'One with the Father'. This means that his sense of self included/includes all the fricken universe!

i am one with the "father" and the universe if you like. does this mean that my sense of self includes the universe? not really, it's just an idea in my head. my sense of self is the same sense of self as yours. me and you feel the "I" the same way. but what we believe about it makes the difference.

Ok, I misunderstood you, but to me Jesus was an advanced being, not at all an ordinary human.

he wasn't an advanced being in the sense that you described advancement, which could be said for many people that even exist today.

if you think that he was an advanced human being, then you have to explain why, in what way? also, if he really was an advanced being as you say (and i don't disagree, i'm just playing along), there's no way for you to judge his actions unless you are same as or more advanced. the cabbage will never give cooking instructions to the cook..

[Anders Lindman]

i am saying this, because the 'sense of self' is something common for all beings, not only for humans, but for animals, fish, plants, birds.. even for planets or objects, if we assume that they too have some degree of consciousness.

I just came to think about another example. The cells in my body are a part of me, my sense of self. I don't need to know exactly what the cells in my kidneys for example are doing each second. The kidneys are One with me, yet at the same time they are doing their things without having to bother me (unless there is some disease or other kidney problem).

I can also (at least as a thought experiment) expand my sense of self to include the whole world. Then for example George W. Bush and Barack Obama are my global kidneys. They do the things they do without me having to bother too much about it.

It would be silly if I said to the kidneys in my body: "You are evil! You are my enemy. I will cut you out from my body and throw you into the fire!"

In the same way, IF my sense of self ACTUALLY is expanded to include the whole world, it will be equally foolish of me to say to George W. Bush and Barack Obama: "You are evil! You are my enemy. I will make sure you are cut out from the world and thrown into the fire!"

As I understand it, it was things like these Jesus talked about in some of his parables.

[nwoexposer]

What really pisses me off is the fact that so many sane and right minded people actually follow a religion. It's like they're right on most things to a point, then comes religion. Alex Jones is a perfect example. How can Alex Jones truly desire freedom if he's a Christian?

[Anders Lindman]

What really pisses me off is the fact that so many sane and right minded people actually follow a religion. It's like they're right on most things to a point, then comes religion. Alex Jones is a perfect example. How can Alex Jones truly desire freedom if he's a Christian?

Science can only deal with things that can be measured. I'm myself curious about the unmeasurable or what to call it. Religion can deal with issues not reachable through science. I don't stick to any particular religion or spirituality, just because as you say that would limit my freedom, but it depends on what freedom means to ourselves. EDIT: And freedom includes the freedom to choose to belong to a particular religion!

[bigus_dickus]

I just came to think about another example. The cells in my body are a part of me, my sense of self. I don't need to know exactly what the cells in my kidneys for example are doing each second. The kidneys are One with me, yet at the same time they are doing their things without having to bother me (unless there is some disease or other kidney problem).

I can also (at least as a thought experiment) expand my sense of self to include the whole world. Then for example George W. Bush and Barack Obama are my global kidneys. They do the things they do without me having to bother too much about it.

It would be silly if I said to the kidneys in my body: "You are evil! You are my enemy. I will cut you out from my body and throw you into the fire!"

In the same way, IF my sense of self ACTUALLY is expanded to include the whole world, it will be equally foolish of me to say to George W. Bush and Barack Obama: "You are evil! You are my enemy. I will make sure you are cut out from the world and thrown into the fire!"

As I understand it, it was things like these Jesus talked about in some of his parables.

yes it works like that, only i would argue that it is not the sense of self that expands, but your understanding about the world.

if your understanding expansion also means that your consciousness expands, then you can say that you are conscious of all those things as self, so you are more consciously aware that everything is interconnected.

but that's a figure of speech and it doesn't mean of course that you are in a flash conscious of all other beings in the universe, because you can't be. to be conscious of the all, everything at the same time, you would at least have to be dead.

so, you don't need to try to expand your sense of self.. your sense of self is the same even if you get a lobotomy. it's the belief that can change and consequently your perspective and consequently your brain, then your body, then your cells. it's all psychological, which means that you get tuned with reality and deal with it in a natural way instead of struggling to figure it out with endless thoughts. your psychological state reflects to the whole state of affairs in your brain and body.

[thirdwave]

What really pisses me off is the fact that so many sane and right minded people actually follow a religion. It's like they're right on most things to a point, then comes religion. Alex Jones is a perfect example. How can Alex Jones truly desire freedom if he's a Christian?

The bottom line is people need it... its like they feel lost at sea without it rather than making the hole sea their home...

in some cases i dont like to bang on at them about it as it can feel like bullying... but when some like to bang on to others and to impose it like the NWO is all about killing their religion... then I have no problem in expressing how full of shit it all is...

if peoples religion did not involve judgement on others then there would bo no problem... but it clearly does.. even the most peace loving of people express this in different ways...


its like a small ...it mostly smells of crap, but with some people it smells like crap mixed with pine toilet freshener...

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

[QUOTE=thirdwave;591565]The bottom line is people need it... its like they feel lost at sea without it rather than making the hole sea their home...


Some, not all T-Wave; myself, as many, many others are drawn by the unparrelled Brilliance of Thought, the sound Logic and Wisdom of it's Doctrines bourne out in Tangible results in my 3D, 4D, 5D Everyday Life.

It is a very substantial compendium of Books, which, as Titurel has informed. Explicitly describes exactly what is going on here at this Time. The Nomenclature is different.

in some cases i dont like to bang on at them about it as it can feel like bullying... but when some like to bang on to others and to impose it like the NWO is all about killing their religion... then I have no problem in expressing how full of shit it all is...

You are certainly entitled to reasonable opinions, and are free to express them. Carry On!


if peoples religion did not involve judgement on others then there would bo no problem... but it clearly does.. even the most peace loving of people express this in different ways...

er..T-Wave, many people 'Judge'. many peeps don't 'like' the NWO, the Illuminati, the Freemasons, Shape-Shifting Reptilians, Governments, Royal Families, Different Races and Etnicities. Religions do not have a monopoly of 'Judging'. You Judge. I Judge. Most of us Judge. Lets call it Discerning. :D


its like a small ...it mostly smells of crap, but with some people it smells like crap mixed with pine toilet freshener...

which gives rise to the old maxim: opinions are like assholes, everybodys got one and they all stink. If you 'Think' your opinions don't stink, shout out!

For the Record: I 'view' the RELIGION FORUM as a Potential Data-Base for the Worlds Peoples 'Schools of Thoughts' may be gathered for examination. And POLITE discourse could ensue, thus widening all our World Views of the peeps we share this Planet with. Too many 'Ad Hominem' 'attacks',

There is Cacophony because most of us are singing from different sheets of music.

This particular Forum has enabled many to better understand where others are 'Coming From'. This is helpful.

[thirdwave]

Some, not all T-Wave; myself, as many, many others are drawn by the unparrelled Brilliance of Thought, the sound Logic and Wisdom of it's Doctrines bourne out in Tangible results in my 3D, 4D, 5D Everyday Life.

It is a very substantial compendium of Books, which, as Titurel has informed. Explicitly describes exactly what is going on here at this Time. The Nomenclature is different.



You are certainly entitled to reasonable opinions, and are free to express them. Carry On!




er..T-Wave, many people 'Judge'. many peeps don't 'like' the NWO, the Illuminati, the Freemasons, Shape-Shifting Reptilians, Governments, Royal Families, Different Races and Etnicities. Religions do not have a monopoly of 'Judging'. You Judge. I Judge. Most of us Judge. Lets call it Discerning. :D


.

which gives rise to the old maxim: opinions are like assholes, everybodys got one and they all stink. If you 'Think' your opinions don't stink, shout out!

For the Record: I 'view' the RELIGION FORUM as a Potential Data-Base for the Worlds Peoples 'Schools of Thoughts' may be gathered for examination. And POLITE discourse could ensue, thus widening all our World Views of the peeps we share this Planet with. Too many 'Ad Hominem' 'attacks',

There is Cacophony because most of us are singing from different sheets of music.

This particular Forum has enabled many to better understand where others are 'Coming From'. This is helpful.



Do you know a religious person who will not defend it and make it out to be the most free wonderful thing in the universe?.. all the bad stuff is missunderstood... everything else is the bad stuff and the mislead stuff.... their religion is innocent or victimised....

the bottom line is, the whole mentality of religion is the main problem.

the fact that people want to confine spirituality or a view on god to a mentality or a signature...

the very fact one would wish to defend a belief based on another person being god is a dogma that will never lead to true freedom.

and as for the fact that we all judge... yes, we all judge based on what we see and experiences....

religion is not always about judging what we see and experience... in fact all religions were created before society is as it is today.... much of it is based on a messiah and what he saw and experienced and what he feels we should...

this is why you have many religious people see homosexuality as wrong... or just free sex... and other silly things.

the mere fact there are so many religious views from people who claim to have seen their god and so on... yet we are left with only 2 answers...

1, only one of them can be right, meaning we know for a fact that many people who claim to know god and have seen him and who's faith is eternal... are duped.

2, they are all right, meaning there is more than one god and we can choose our own .... and go our own way.... which would ask a few questions as to why these gods all claim to be the only one.

of course an important step in a humans evolution is to realise you are god and you create.... and you need to learn to get better at it.

[Anders Lindman]

yes it works like that, only i would argue that it is not the sense of self that expands, but your understanding about the world.


Ok, that could be true. Rupert Sheldrake talks about morphic fields. It's a resonance thing perhaps.

It's very, very difficult to resonate well even with our own bodies. And the world is a much much larger 'body' so it's not an easy task to be in harmony with it all.

And we need to preserve our personality, our integrity, as remaining fully individuals (whole beings) even when we 'expand' our sense of self. Very tricky indeed.