PDA

View Full Version : Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism


Pages : [1] 2

mynameis
23-10-2008, 07:26 PM
1. This article was originally presented as a written statement at the UN Commission on Human Rights in Geneva, and published in its official record on 10 February 2004.


Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism
by Prof. Robert S. Wistrich
Published October 2004

Jewish Political Studies Review 16:3-4 (Fall 2004)


Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time, through its systematic delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel. Although not a priori anti-Semitic, the calls to dismantle the Jewish state, whether they come from Muslims, the Left, or the radical Right, increasingly rely on an anti-Semitic stereotypization of classic themes, such as the manipulative "Jewish lobby," the Jewish/Zionist "world conspiracy," and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers." One major driving force of this anti-Zionism/anti-Semitism is the transformation of the Palestinian cause into a "holy war"; another source is anti-Americanism linked with fundamentalist Islamism. In the current context, classic conspiracy theories, such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, are enjoying a spectacular revival. The common denominator of the new anti-Zionism has been the systematic effort to criminalize Israeli and Jewish behavior, so as to place it beyond the pale of civilized and acceptable conduct.

The question of whether anti-Zionism can or should be equated with anti-Semitism is one of those pivotal issues that refuse to go away. It is of considerable importance in any effort to define the nature of the "new Judeophobia" and strategies to deal with it. Recently when I addressed British MPs in the House of Commons, this was the first order of business. Surely, they wanted to know, doubts about Zionism or alarm at Israel's policies must be distinguished from loathing toward Jews? Was it not true that anti-Semitism was frequently confused with "anti-Sharonism," as The Guardian likes to claim? Did not Jews themselves often engage in the fiercest opposition to Israeli government policy without being accused of anti-Semitism? Finally, exaggerated use of the Judeophobic charge, it was suggested, might raise the suspicion that Israel's leaders were seeking to deflect or even silence justified criticism.

My answer to such objections is that anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are two distinct ideologies that over time (especially since 1948) have tended to converge, generally without undergoing a full merger. There have always been Bundists, Jewish communists, Reform Jews, and ultra-Orthodox Jews who strongly opposed Zionism without being Judeophobes. So, too, there are conservatives, liberals, and leftists in the West today who are pro-Palestinian, antagonistic toward Israel, and deeply distrustful of Zionism without crossing the line into anti- Semitism. There are also Israeli "post-Zionists" who object to the definition of Israel as an exclusively or even a predominantly "Jewish" state without feeling hostile toward Jews as such. There are others, too, who question whether Jews are really a nation; or who reject Zionism because they believe its accomplishment inevitably resulted in uprooting many Palestinians. None of these positions is intrinsically anti-Semitic in the sense of expressing opposition or hatred toward Jews as Jews.

Nevertheless, I believe that the more radical forms of anti-Zionism that have emerged with renewed force in recent years do display unmistakable analogies to European anti-Semitism immediately preceding the Holocaust. One of the more striking symptoms has been the call for a scientific, cultural, and economic boycott of Israel that arouses some grim associations and memories among Jews of the Nazi boycott that began in 1933. (Indeed, such actions go back at least fifty years earlier when anti-Semitic organizations first used economic boycotts as a weapon against Jewish competitors.) There are other highly visible manifestations. An example is the systematic manner in which Israel is harassed at international forums such as the United Nations, where the Arab states have for decades pursued a policy of isolating the Jewish state and turning it into a pariah. An offshoot of this campaign was the hate-fest at the UN-sponsored Durban Conference against racism of September 2001, which denounced Zionism as a "genocidal" movement, practicing "ethnic cleansing" against Palestinians. In these and similar public forums, as well as in much of the Western mainstream media, Zionism and the Jewish people have been demonized in ways that are virtually identical to the methods, arguments, and techniques of racist anti-Semitism. Even though the current banner may be "antiracist" and the defamation is being carried out today in the name of human rights, all the red lines have clearly been crossed. For example, "anti-Zionists" who insist on comparing Zionism and the Jews with Hitler and the Third Reich appear unmistakably to be de facto anti-Semites, even if they vehemently deny the fact! This is largely because they knowingly exploit the reality that Nazism in the postwar world has become the defining metaphor of absolute evil. For if Zionists are "Nazis" and if Sharon really is Hitler, then it becomes a moral obligation to wage war against Israel. That is the bottom line of much contemporary anti-Zionism. In practice, this has become the most potent form of contemporary anti-Semitism.

Indeed, Israel is today the only state on the face of this planet that such a large number of disparate people wish to see disappear - itself a chilling reminder of the Nazi propaganda of the 1930s. The most virulent expressions of this "exterminationist" or genocidal anti-Zionism have come from the Arab-Muslim world, which is the historical heir of the earlier 20th-century forms of totalitarian anti-Semitism in Hitler's Germany and the Soviet Union. Even "moderate" Muslim statesmen such as Mahathir Mohammad have publicly repeated the classic anti-Semitic belief that "Jews rule the world" while eliciting virtually no objections in the Islamic world. The more radical Islamists from Al-Qaida to the Palestinian Hamas go much further since they fuse indiscriminate terror, suicide bombings, and a Protocols of Zion style of anti-Semitism with the ideology of jihad. In this case, the socalled "war against Zionism" unmistakably embraces the total demonization of the "Jewish other": as the "enemy of mankind," as deadly poisonous snakes, as barbarian "Nazis" and "Holocaust manipulators" who control international finance, not to mention America, or theWestern mass media, while they busily instigate wars and revolutions to achieve world domination. Such conspiracy theories sailing under "anti-Zionist" colors constitute a highly toxic, even murderous worldview that today is linked to religious fanaticism and a worldwide revolutionary agenda. The same demonizing stereotypes can, however, be found in moderate pro-Western Egypt (home to the Protocols based anti-Semitic soap opera Rider without a Horse), secular Baathist Syria, conservative Wahhabite Saudi Arabia, and the Shiite fundamentalist Iran of the ayatollahs. This is an ideological anti-Zionism that seeks both the annihilation of Israel and a world "liberated from the Jews" - in other words, it is a totalist form of anti-Semitism.

The danger has become especially grave because this "annihilationalist" anti-Zionism is spreading under the guise of anti-Israelism and hatred of Sharon to Western Europe, America, and parts of the Third World. It has found grassroots support in the Muslim diaspora among radicalized youth and an echo among antiglobalists, Trotskyites, and far-Right groups as well as parts of the media. There is a loose and shifting coalition of red-brown-green bigotry focused against both America and Israel. Osama bin Laden is a hero not only to those who wish to restore Islam's global hegemony but also for some of those who still believe in the "world revolution" of the proletarian masses or the demise of "Judeo-American" domination.

Much of the mobilizing power of "anti-Zionism" derives from its link to the Palestinian cause. Since the 1960s, the PLO has worked hard to totally delegitimize Zionism and the policy has largely succeeded: this anti-Zionism involves a total negation of Jewish nationhood and legitimate Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Israel, a denial of the link between Judaism and the land, or of the existence of the two Jewish temples in Jerusalem. No wonder Israel never existed on any Palestinian maps throughout the Oslo "peace process." Nor should it be forgotten that the Palestinian Authority has frequently combined anti-Semitic motifs - including Holocaust denial, updated blood libels, and Jewish conspiracy themes - with its general incitement to violence. Moreover, some Palestinian Christians have developed a "liberation theology" that plays on older anti-Semitic efforts to de-Judaize the Christian tradition and finds a sympathetic echo in the West. As for the Islamic groups among the Palestinians, they openly see themselves as engaged in "a war against the Jews." Hamas, for example, has embraced a full-fledged Islamicized vision of the "Jewish peril" derived from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Palestinian suffering and Arab "anti-Zionism" have helped to infect Europe with an old-new version of anti-Semitism in which Jews are rapacious, bloodsucking colonialists. The theme is that Jews were rootless, imperialist invaders who came to Palestine to conquer the land by brute force, to expel or "cleanse" it of its natives. They are the modern "Crusaders" with no legitimate rights to the soil - an alien transplant, absolutely foreign to the region. They succeeded only because of a gigantic occult conspiracy in which the Zionists (i.e., the Jews) manipulated Great Britain and subsequently America. This is a typically anti-Semitic narrative of which Hitler might have approved - widely believed around the world, even credited by millions of educated people in the West.

The popularity of the Protocols today is the one telling symptom of the growing merger between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Zionism is increasingly depicted in some mainstream media as being "criminal" in its essence as well as its behavior. This flows from the leftwing mantra that brands Zionism as a racist, apartheid, colonialist, and imperialist movement, reviving a stigma that has anti-Semitic echoes on a European continent still grappling with the guilt of its genocidal and colonial past. Israel seems to be losing on both counts. Its military actions offer Europeans the tantalizing prospect of saying "the victims of yesterday have become the [Nazi] perpetrators of today," along with the opportunity to present Zionism as heir to the darkest pages of Western colonial history such as Algeria, Vietnam, or South Africa. Such aspersions are not a priori anti-Semitic, but through endless repetition they are becoming the ideological rationalization for dismantling Israel. This is the aim of "progressive" anti- Zionism, which, unlike the classic forms of racist anti-Semitism is not ethnically nationalist or völkisch. But it is highly discriminatory in negating the possibility of a legitimate Jewish nationalism. The antiglobalists either ignore or excuse the terrorism, jihadism, and anti- Jewish stereotypes to be found in PLO nationalism/fundamentalism. For much of the Western Left, Palestinians can only be victims and never perpetrators.

On the far Left as well as the far Right, anti-Zionism uses a type of discourse and stereotypes concerning the "Jewish/Zionist lobby," Israeli/Jewish "criminality," and Sharonist "warmongering" that is fundamentally manipulative and anti-Semitic. This has penetrated the mainstream debate to the point where 60 percent of all Europeans regard tiny Israel as the greatest threat to world peace; where over a third of those surveyed in Europe and America regularly attribute to Jews excessive power and influence; where Jews are suspected of dual loyalties by ever greater numbers of non-Jews; and where "anti-Zionist" attacks on Jewish institutions and targets show that we are talking about a distinction without a difference. Anti-Zionism is not only the historic heir of earlier forms of anti-Semitism. Today, it is also the lowest common denominator and the bridge between the Left, the Right, and the militant Muslims; between the elites (including the media) and the masses; between the churches and the mosques; between an increasingly anti-American Europe and an endemically anti- Western Arab-Muslim Middle East; a point of convergence between conservatives and radicals and a connecting link between fathers and sons. Anti-Zionism is much more than an exotic collection of radicalchic slogans that survived the debacle of the late-1960s counterculture. It has become an "exterminationist," pseudoredemptive ideology reconstructed in the Middle East and reexported back to Europe with devastating effects.

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=254&PID=0&IID=1064



No, anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism
As an idea, a Jewish homeland was always controversial. As a reality, Israel still is - and it is not anti-Jewish to say so

* Brian Klug
*
o Brian Klug
o The Guardian,
o Wednesday December 3 2003
o Article history

From the beginning, political Zionism was a controversial movement even among Jews. So strong was the opposition of German orthodox and reform rabbis to the Zionist idea in the name of Judaism that Theodor Herzl changed the venue of the First Zionist Congress in 1897 from Munich to Basle in Switzerland.

Twenty years later, when the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour (sponsor of the 1905 Aliens Act to restrict Jewish immigration to the UK), wanted the government to commit itself to a Jewish homeland in Palestine, his declaration was delayed - not by anti-semites but by leading figures in the British Jewish community. They included a Jewish member of the cabinet who called Balfour's pro-Zionism "anti-semitic in result".

The creation of the state of Israel in 1948 has not put an end to the debate, though the issue has changed. Today, the question is about Israel's future. Should it become a "post-Zionist" state, one that defines itself in terms of the sum of its citizens, rather than seeing itself as belonging to the entire Jewish people? This is a perfectly legitimate question and not anti-semitic in the least. When people suggest otherwise - as Emanuele Ottolenghi did on these pages last Saturday - they simply add to the growing confusion.

Ottolenghi contends that "Zionism comprises a belief that Jews are a nation, and as such are entitled to self-determination as all other nations are". This is doubly confused. First, the ideology of Jewish nationalism was irrelevant to many of the Jews, as well as non-Jewish sympathisers, who were drawn to the Zionist goal of creating a Jewish state in Palestine. They saw Israel in purely humanitarian or practical terms: as a safe haven where Jews could live as Jews after centuries of being marginalised and persecuted.

This motive was strengthened by the Nazi murder of one-third of the world's Jewish population, the wholesale destruction of Jewish communities in Europe, and the plight of masses of Jewish refugees with nowhere to go.

Second, you do not have to be an anti-semite to reject the belief that Jews constitute a separate nation in the modern sense of the word or that Israel is the Jewish nation state. There is an irony here: it is a staple of anti-semitic discourse that Jews are a people apart, who form "a state within a state". Partly for this reason, some European anti-semites thought that the solution to "the Jewish question" might be for Jews to have a state of their own. Herzl certainly thought he could count on the support of anti-semites.

What is anti-semitism? Although the word only goes back to the 1870s, anti-semitism is an old European fantasy about Jews. The composer Richard Wagner exemplified it when he said: "I hold the Jewish race to be the born enemy of pure humanity and everything noble in it." An anti-semite sees Jews this way: they are an alien presence, a parasite that preys on humanity and seeks to dominate the world. Across the globe, their hidden hand controls the banks, the markets and the media. Even governments are under their sway. And when revolutions occur or nations go to war, it is the Jews - clever, ruthless and cohesive - who invariably pull the strings and reap the rewards.

When this fantasy is projected on to Israel because it is a Jewish state, then anti-Zionism is anti-semitic. And when zealous critics of Israel, without themselves being anti-semitic, carelessly use language, such as "Jewish influence", that conjures up this fantasy, they are fuelling an anti-semitic current in the wider culture.

But Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is no fantasy. Nor is the spread of Jewish settlements in these territories. Nor the unequal treatment of Jewish colonisers and Palestinian inhabitants. Nor the institutionalised discrimination against Israeli Arab citizens in various spheres of life. These are realities. It is one thing to oppose Israel or Zionism on the basis of an anti-semitic fantasy; quite another to do so on the basis of reality. The latter is not anti-semitism.

But isn't excessive criticism of Israel or Zionism evidence of an anti-semitic bias? In his book, The Case for Israel, Alan Dershowitz argues that when criticism of Israel "crosses the line from fair to foul" it goes "from acceptable to anti-semitic".

People who take this view say the line is crossed when critics single Israel out unfairly; when they apply a double standard and judge Israel by harsher criteria than they use for other states; when they misrepresent the facts so as to put Israel in a bad light; when they vilify the Jewish state; and so on. All of which undoubtedly is foul. But is it necessarily anti-semitic?

No, it is not. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a bitter political struggle. The issues are complex, passions are inflamed, and the suffering is great. In such circumstances, people on both sides are liable to be partisan and to "cross the line from fair to foul". When people who side with Israel cross that line, they are not necessarily anti-Muslim. And when others cross the line on behalf of the Palestinian cause, this does not make them anti-Jewish. It cuts both ways.

There is something else that cuts both ways: racism. Both anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim feeling appear to be growing. Each has its own peculiarities, but both are exacerbated by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the invasion of Iraq, the "war against terror", and other conflicts.

We should unite in rejecting racism in all its forms: the Islamophobia that demonises Muslims, as well as the anti-semitic discourse that can infect anti-Zionism and poison the political debate. However, people of goodwill can disagree politically - even to the extent of arguing over Israel's future as a Jewish state. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism can also, in its own way, poison the political debate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/dec/03/comment

mynameis
23-10-2008, 09:14 PM
Anti-semitism rears its head again
Death of far-right figurehead reveals the insidious creep of extremism, says Denis Macshane

The death of Austria's far-right politician Jorg Haider in a car crash on Saturday draws attention to an ugly truth about modern politics - the new anti-semitism sinking its roots in Europe.

Haider liked to present himself as a man of the people - expressing simple Austrian thoughts about too many immigrants, too much Europe, too much political correctness.

But underneath these standard right-wing tropes - shared by the BNP, UKIP, and populist politicians of the left and right elsewhere in Europe - was a man who carefully developed a politics of anti-semitism. Haider claimed to be inspired by the German right philosopher Ernst Forsthoff, who in 1938 wrote that Jews "were not a religious community but a racially foreign body utterly different from the German people".

Haider compared Jews to the Sudeten Germans who lost property and were forced to leave Czechoslovakia in the mass transfers of peoples that took place in Europe, British India and the Middle East in the years after 1945. When Hitler's aide Rudolf Hess died in Spandau prison in Berlin, Haider wrote Hess had "stayed faithful to true German honour".

Journalists in Europe are reluctant to describe modern anti-semitic politicians as such. Like France's Jean Marie Le Pen who tried unsuccessfully to keep under control his views on Jews, Haider tried to avoid openly direct anti-Jewish remarks.

But by insinuation, choice of metaphor, or expressing his belief that Jews in Germany in 1940 were able to live freely, he was in the mainstream of modern anti-semitism with its banalisation or denial of the Holocaust, its contempt for Israel, and its belief that secret Jewish lobbies have too much power.

In Britain, the only lengthy published works by the BNP leader Nick Griffin are obsessed with Jews. In Who Are the Mindbenders, a pamphlet published in 1997, Griffin depicted the British media in the hands of Jews like Michael Grade who changed their names to avoid identification. In a magazine called The Rune, Griffin argued that "the very idea of Zyklon-B extermination has been exposed as unscientific nonsense".

This and other denials of the Holocaust are a core ideological element of contemporary anti-semitism. If the Holocaust did not happen, Jews have no right to protest and the right of Israel to exist can be openly challenged. Haider's party and a sister far-right party won 30 per cent of the vote in last month's elections in Austria. In Britain, the BNP is steadily gaining ground.

The Labour MP Jon Cruddas, who has to do hand-to-hand political fighting with the BNP in his Dagenham, east London constituency, has warned that the BNP could win an MEP seat in next June's European Parliament election. In Stoke, a BNP candidate stands a chance of becoming the directly elected mayor of the city.

Anti-semitism also lies at the heart of fundamentalist Islamist ideology. From Osama bin Laden to the Hamas charter, the language about Jews is little different from the classic Jew-baiting texts of anti-semitic politicians, going back to Hitler. At the UN in September, Iran's President Ahmadinejad accused Jews of "dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centres as well as the political decision-making centres of some European countries and the US in a deceitful, complex and furtive manner". This line is no different from Nazi propaganda claiming Jews were in secret control of British and US politics before 1939.

So today's anti-semitism has its state sponsors like Iran and Saudi Arabia. It has its European politicians who play on anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner themes. It has its intellectuals who develop theories about the Holocaust. It has its fellow-travellers who hate Israel and call for boycotts of Jews in Israeli institutions without ever applying the same standards to Israel's neighbours where human rights are ruthlessly repressed.

It is not the anti-semitism of the extermination camp or the burning of synagogues. But anti-semitism is back, is growing as a political force, and is once again causing fear among many who thought it belonged to the history books.
Denis MacShane MP chaired the All-Party Inquiry into Antisemitism. His book based on that inquiry, 'Globalising Hatred: the New Antisemitism', has just been published by Weidenfeld and Nicolson

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/45643,opinion,anti-semitism-rears-its-head-again-denis-macshane,2

mynameis
24-10-2008, 04:03 AM
"Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism"
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.

Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html

stelios
24-10-2008, 05:18 AM
only one way to counter this utter crap

World Travels: Anti-Zionist Jewish Protestors attacked by an AIPAC attendee in Washington D.C - YouTube

http://www.polonica.net/imag/grafiki/khazaria.gif

This is where most zionists are from.
NOT PALESTINE

haukipesukone
24-10-2008, 06:03 AM
Sorry for not reading all that spam, mynameis. The thing that's offensive is how prejudice against Jews is singled out by those who want to "help" Jews. If someone is prejudiced against black people, white people, or asian people they are called racist. If someone is prejudiced against Jews they're "anti-semitic", which is supposed to be worse. First of all aren't Arabs semites too? So the term is misleading. And I know Jews aren't really a race, they're a religion. But prejudice is prejudice, whether it's due to race, religion or nationality.

Those who hunt anti-semites are actually advocating anti-semitism by using the term. They separate Jews from other people. They are the ones who are anti-Jew, intentionally or unintentionally. As if it's different hating a Jew for being a Jew than hating a German for being German.


And racism and prejudice is a choice. Let people be racist if they want to as long as they do it in the privacy of their own homes. If somebody hates Jews, klingons or left-handed Lithuanian plumbers, so be it. As long as they don't go burning down houses or shouting idiotic remarks in public.

damagedbrainn
24-10-2008, 06:07 AM
only one way to counter this utter crap

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3dSHl3C9kgY

http://www.polonica.net/imag/grafiki/khazaria.gif

This is where most zionists are from.
NOT PALESTINE

All current world events should be judged by what happened in the 900's. Don't for a second trust those dirty-ass Byzantines either....they'll get what's coming to them.

runciter
24-10-2008, 08:10 AM
Sorry for not reading all that spam, mynameis. The thing that's offensive is how prejudice against Jews is singled out by those who want to "help" Jews. If someone is prejudiced against black people, white people, or asian people they are called racist. If someone is prejudiced against Jews they're "anti-semitic", which is supposed to be worse. First of all aren't Arabs semites too? So the term is misleading. And I know Jews aren't really a race, they're a religion. But prejudice is prejudice, whether it's due to race, religion or nationality.

Those who hunt anti-semites are actually advocating anti-semitism by using the term. They separate Jews from other people. They are the ones who are anti-Jew, intentionally or unintentionally. As if it's different hating a Jew for being a Jew than hating a German for being German.


i'm not sorry at all for not reading that stuff, but i agree with you:

prejudice against Jews is singled out by those who want to "help" Jews.

intentionally? hertzl advocated the "manipulation" af antisemitism..

mynameis
24-10-2008, 09:53 AM
Sikh MP joins British parliamentary group against anti-Semitism and hate crime
By JONNY PAUL, JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT
LONDON

A former cabinet minister and Sikh MP has been drafted into the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Anti-Semitism.
MP Parmjit Dhanda.

Parmjit Dhanda, formerly community cohesion minister, agreed this week to join the parliamentary group to continue his hard work in combating anti-Semitism.

As community cohesion minister, he published the government's "One Year On" report in May in response to the All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Anti-Semitism. It celebrated 14 key achievements and action plans from eight government departments.

"I think it's important that people of all races and of all faiths condemn anti-Semitism, and I am committed to do that in as public a forum as possible," Dhanda told The Jerusalem Post. "I look forward to continuing my work in this area from my days as minister for community cohesion, as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Anti-Semitism."

Born in London to Indian immigrants of Sikh origin, Dhanda said when presenting the May report that he was committed to taking "practical, effective action to stamp out anti-Semitism whenever and wherever it occurs."

"We are committed to increasing the number of hate crimes brought to prosecution, tackling anti-Semitism on university campuses and challenging hate crime and extremism on the Internet," he said.

During a debate in parliament in May, Dhanda showed what it meant to be from an ethnic minority.

"As the Minister with responsibility for community cohesion, I sometimes ask myself whether I am the right person to be doing this job, bearing in mind that my parents are from India, that I was born in the West Midlands, that I represent Gloucester and support Liverpool football club in the Northwest and that I unashamedly failed the Norman Tebbit cricket test by supporting India against England at cricket - but perhaps that is representative of what it means to be British in the here and now."

Following Dhanda's departure from government, Labor MP John Mann, chairman of the all-party parliamentary group, invited him earlier this month to become the latest member.

"I would be delighted to join a group making real progress and combating anti-Semitism," Dhanda said. "It is something I was proud to champion in government and personally wish to continue."

"We all welcome Parmjit Dhanda on board. His insight, thoughts and perceptions will bring a unique perspective that can only aid our work," Mann said. "On his watch, the government made considerable progress and outlined a future agenda to combat anti-Semitism in universities and on the Internet while securing better reporting and prosecution of hate crimes against Jews."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1222017611623&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

runciter
24-10-2008, 10:04 AM
"I think it's important that people of all races and of all faiths condemn anti-Semitism, and I am committed to do that in as public a forum as possible," Dhanda told The Jerusalem Post. "I look forward to continuing my work in this area from my days as minister for community cohesion, as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Anti-Semitism."


palestinians are semites, let's condemn israeli oppression against them.

tyler
24-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Why isn't Mynameis warned by the moderators for spamming? I wonder why?

90% of so called Jews are not semitic. They originate from a land near Georgia which is nowhere near Palestine.

A miniscule minority of Jews have DNA relating to the Hebrews in the Bible and these people have lived peacefully side by side with Arabs for thousands of years.

It was only with the creation of Zionism that problems began.

Give Palestine back to it's rightful owners. Time to dismantle the Zionist created, illegal, gangster state of " Israel".

This is Megaphone......http://giyus.org/

john white
24-10-2008, 10:19 AM
Why isn't Mynameis warned by the moderators for spamming? I wonder why?

Perhaps because it is not defacto spamming to lay out information?

I would say this thread would be better in general than news though

I don't have time atm but I will try to make some posts on this topic later

runciter
24-10-2008, 10:24 AM
Give Palestine back to it's rightful owners. Time to dismantle the Zionist created, illegal, gangster state of " Israel".


maybe we can defeat zionism without "dismantling" israel.

tyler
24-10-2008, 10:56 AM
You miss the point.....Israel was created by Zionism.

They stole the land from the Palestinians and with stolen American money are oppressing the rightful owners of the land by keeping them in a new Warsaw ghetto called Gaza and periodically killing them with bombs and missiles and bulldozing their homes and destroying what few possessions they have.

There are over a million Russian "jews" living in Palestine now alongside "jews" from Brooklyn, Golders Green, Hungary and Poland. These people are not from the middle east! Why should they have a second country to call home?

endlessvista
24-10-2008, 11:09 AM
Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time

Bullshit. Total and Absolute Bullshit.

I am Irish, but I hate the IRA. So if anyone puts down the IRA it means they are being racist against me!

Most people who are Anti-Zionism have nothing aginst Jews as a people, the issue is and always has been the behavious of the state of Israel.

stelios
24-10-2008, 02:24 PM
Many Jews oppose the existence of Israel because it is considered an abomination according to Judaism.
Zionism is a political system. Like Communism or Marxism. But it is based upon the Apartheid system.

This is a small selection of real Jews who are anti Zionist and campaign against it. Would people like mynameis call these Jews anti semitic too?

http://www.nkusa.org/
http://www.jewishsocialist.org.uk/
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
http://www.bigcampaign.org/index.php?page=jews-for-boycotting-israeli-goods

http://bigcampaign.org/uploads/images/jbig%20small%204th%20logo%20try.jpg

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/demonstrations/20080603/1-IMG_2324.jpg

runciter
24-10-2008, 03:43 PM
You miss the point.....Israel was created by Zionism.

They stole the land from the Palestinians and with stolen American money are oppressing the rightful owners of the land by keeping them in a new Warsaw ghetto called Gaza and periodically killing them with bombs and missiles and bulldozing their homes and destroying what few possessions they have.

There are over a million Russian "jews" living in Palestine now alongside "jews" from Brooklyn, Golders Green, Hungary and Poland. These people are not from the middle east! Why should they have a second country to call home?

many countries were born of war, oppression and ethnic cleansing (or genocide).

we should stop all this shit, instead of advocating another forced migration, imo..

damagedbrainn
24-10-2008, 11:56 PM
Bullshit. Total and Absolute Bullshit.

I am Irish, but I hate the IRA. So if anyone puts down the IRA it means they are being racist against me!

Most people who are Anti-Zionism have nothing aginst Jews as a people, the issue is and always has been the behavious of the state of Israel.

To an extent, yes....particularly beyond the conspiracy crowd. For the most part though, people oppose the actions of the Israeli government, not necessarily the existence of Israel itself nor do they blame it all on the people who live in Israel. Similar to how people can criticise the American or British government without desiring the dismantling of either country nor hating the people that live there. Many of those who posture themselves as "Anti-Zionist" have trouble making such distinctions....a lot of them can't even tell the difference between a Jew in America and a Jew in Israel.

Whether you want to call it bigotry or bias, a lot of people have a massive double standard in how they judge Jews and Israel to how they judge the rest of the world. How often do you see these "Anti-Zionists" mention any Israeli officials by name when voicing their criticism? Almost never. They just say "Israel". Yet these same people will criticize something like the Iraq War, specifically mentioning "George Bush", or at least the "American government", rather than just "America". A lot of people on here can't even be specific enough to say "Israel", they just say "Jew" until someone accuses them of hating Jews, then they backpedal quickly.

Within conspiracy circles, and more specifically this forum, those who go on and on about "Zionism" to the extent that it's almost all they ever talk about, can nearly always be found to also believe that Jews run the world, worship Satan, sacrifice children, and commit cannibalism. They also usually turn out to be very Right Wing Christians, though not all of them. While the situation is different everywhere else, on here it's politically incorrect to point this out and to call such people for what they obviously are. This is not the case with anything else.....a person who exhibits bigotry against any race can be called a racist, a person who exhibits bigotry against women can be called sexist, a person who exhibits bigotry against gays can freely be called a homophobe. But "antisemite" or even "anti-jew" is a great big taboo here that earns accusation and moronic suspicion, even from those who don't agree with all the Jewish conspiracies. This is the case regardless of how blatantly obvious it is that a particular member just hates Jews.

The reason why isn't difficult to guess: It's because David Icke was accused of being "antisemitic", thus anyone who uses the term must be of the same ilk and have similar motives. But surely people have sense enough to tell the difference between the two. Then again, maybe not.

damagedbrainn
25-10-2008, 12:12 AM
Many Jews oppose the existence of Israel because it is considered an abomination according to Judaism.
Zionism is a political system. Like Communism or Marxism. But it is based upon the Apartheid system.

This is a small selection of real Jews who are anti Zionist and campaign against it. Would people like mynameis call these Jews anti semitic too?


I wouldn't call anyone who opposes the existence of Israel antisemtic based on that fact alone. I would call it stupid and hypocritical, since I can't really think of any "developed" nation which wasn't stolen from somebody else. If Palestine were given to those who originally inhabited it, by what standards would that be judged? Racially? So, conduct DNA screenings to determine who can and cannot live there? Religiously? Well, then you'd have to hand it over to pagans, because that's who originally lived there, not Jews or Muslims.

As you said, those Jews who oppose the existence of Israel do so because it goes against the Torah, which states that Israel is to be created by God, not by man. To put it another way, they oppose Israel's existence because they're religious nuts. Fanatics. Fundamentalists. Super-duper-ultra-conservative. And they're no different than any other type of Fundamentalists who use a guise of compassion to veil their fanaticism. They do believe that God will return to create Israel himself, thereby returning the Holy Land exclusively to the Jews; they just don't believe that that should happen right now at the hands of man. But they still want it to happen and believe that it will. And, just as with every other fanatic, they believe that all the other religions will either be converted or destroyed when their "God" returns, and Muslims are not exempt from that. Basically, they oppose the oppression of Palestinians because that's God's job, not man's. Not to dissimilar from the reasons why Evangelical Christians support the existence of Israel: Not because they really give a shit about Jews, but because they believe that it'll bring Jesus back sooner.

stelios
25-10-2008, 07:08 AM
Ofcourse it will be very difficult/impossible to turn the clock back and give the country back to it's original inhabitants.
But surely they should be compensated.
Surely they deserve to be given basic human rights.
My favoured solution would be the one state where everyone has one vote each and the majority rules.
Exactly the same thing what occured in South Africa.


Moving on to the second part of your post.
True Torah Jews believe in the coming of a Messiah. And a number of other events that will happen prior to them ending their exile from the holy lands.
Until this occurs for people who claim to be Jews to occupy and rule the holy land is an absolute sin and an abomination.
Judaism is a religion it is not a nationality.
I have met Indian Jews from India and Black Jews from Africa.
There is no country iin the world that is a Christian homeland or a Muslim homeland or a Buddhist homeland nor do True Torah Jews want to have a Jewish homeland.

The people who occupy Palestine today are mostly Ashkenazis who originate from Khazaria and never had any roots in Palestine ever.
But you Zionists living in the UK and USA are so brainwashed into this new religion called Zionism you have forgotten your true history and roots.

Even the Israeli born wife of the Icelandic President who herself was born Jewish has described Israel as a "hell on Earth"

eternal_spirit
25-10-2008, 02:29 PM
Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion
http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/Articles/04/protocol_serpent.gif
The Protocol Serpent

Here we go again! I don't know how many times these horrific Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion have been discussed on the Internet, in books, in videos and elsewhere. They first became widely known in 1901, when they fell into the hands of the Russian Professor S. Nilus. He published them under the title "The Jewish Peril". Then, in 1921 VIctor Marsden translated them into English under "THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion2.htm#PROTOCOL%20No.%201)".
Understandably, the Protocols created rage, fear, disbelief and any other strong emotions you can think of, because they are so incredibly evil and they target people like you and I. The authors of the Protocols want us all dead or enslaved!
The next public reaction was denial; no one can be that vicious. Just because it is so hard for people to comprehend such evil, it was an easy task for the Zionists to spread the rumors that the Protocols were forgeries, made up by someone to blame the Jews and put them in a situation where people would hate them. Many people took this to heart without doing any deeper research, simply because it was more convenient, and hopefully the threat would 'disappeared'.
Now I have to disappoint those who bought the lie that the Protocols are forgeries. They are not! There is evidence they are authentic, and I will show them to you:
1. Almost everything that is written in the Protocols have become reality or is well on its way to be! If you don't believe me, read them again - very carefully. You will clearly see that the Protocols are implemented all over the world - TODAY.
2. The Protocols are of Jewish origins! How do I know? Because they are all blueprints to implement the teachings of the Talmud, the Jewish Sacred Scripture! Again, if you don't believe me, read the Talmud! Everything that is written in the Protocols is also written in the Talmud. To prove my point, I am going to quote from this unbelievably evil book under the next section, and you will see.
3. Some may say the Protocols are written by Zionists, which is a political "Jewish" movement, contrary to Judaism, which is a religion, something totally different. WRONG! First of all, Zionism has only been around since the late 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#The_Historic_and_Religious_Origins_of_Zion ism), while the Talmud was written down Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, but the oral version of the Jewish law goes back way further, to old Babylon and even further back. This means that though the Protocols were written fairly recently, the ideas behind them go back thousands of years.
The above statements should prove my point, especially after you have read the next section:

The Talmud
http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/Articles/04/talmud.jpg
The TALMUD

What a lovely book this is. Although I definitely by no means justify what people like Hitler did, this book plus the Protocols were the reasons why Hitler, George Washington, Martin Luther and many, many others from history wanted to hunt down the Jews.
Everything in this section of the article are from Jewish sources, so there is no reason to blame me for publishing this; it is already out in the open, although not well known. It is just a matter of connection the dots, folks.


If we return to the Protocols, there may still be some readers doubting their origins. If so, bear with me and you are soon going to change your minds. The following quotes are out of the Talmud (translated from a German version into English). Read them and you will understand why the barbarian Khazars were interested in suddenly becoming "Talmud Believers", and perhaps also why the Jews always have been hunted, wherever they have resided. Is there a reason behind it?
The scary part is that the Talmud is not some evil thing of the past; there are a lot of Jews who actually believe in this and live by it TODAY!
"Only the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle"
(goyim = human cattle) [1 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#1)]
- Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a
"The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves" [2 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#2)]
- Midrasch Talpioth 225
"The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs"
- Orach Chaiim 57, 6a
"Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals"
- Kethuboth 3b
"The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively" [3 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#3)]
- Zohar II, 4b
"As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews" [4 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#4)]
- Iore Dea 337,1
"To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of God"
- Sanhedrin 58b
"God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews"
- Talmud IV / 8 / 4a
"The human (the Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn't make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant"
- Talmud V / 2 / 43b + 44a
"Towards a Non-Jew the Jew doesn't cause an adultery... Punishable for the Jew is just the adultery towards his next, that means the wife of a Jew. The wife of the Non-Jew is excluded"
- Talmud IV / 4 / 52b
"There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren't their wives"
- Talmud IV / 4 / 81 + 82ab
"You (the Jews) have made me, Jahveh, the only true lord in the world, so I will make you the only ruler in the world"
"Who wants to be smart shall occupy himself with money matters, because there are no corner pillars in the Thora that are more important, because they are like a sparkling fountain"
- Talmud IV / 3 / 173b
"Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews" [5 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#5)]
- Zohar I, 168a
"Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first"
- Babba Bathra 54b
"If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit"
- Choschen Ham 183,7
"Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin"
- Babba Kama 113a
"The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it"
- Talmud IV / 3 / 54b
"The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him"
- Talmud IV / 1 / 113b
"The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew" [6 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#6)]
- Talmud IV / 2 / 70b
"When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews"
- Erubin 43b
"Whoever disobeys a Rabbi deserves death... Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell."
- Erubin 21b
"If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there"
- Moed Kattan 17a
"Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men")
- Baba Mezia 114a-114b
"Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God"
- Sanhedrin 58b
O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work
- Sanhedrin 57a
"If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
- Baba Kamma 37b
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews
- Baba Mezia 24a
If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned
- (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)
God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
- Sanhedrin 76a
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep
- Sanhedrin 57a
Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
- Baba Kamma 37b
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile
- Baba Kamma 113a
Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals
- Yebamoth 98a
Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth
- Abodah Zarah 36b
Gentiles prefer sex with cows
- Abodah Zarah 22a-22b
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
- Sanhedrin 55b

A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
- Sanhedrin 54b

"When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
- Kethuboth 11b
"Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
- Sanhedrin 59a

"Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
- Abodah Zara 26b
"To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
- Libbre David 37

"Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age."
- Yebhamoth 11b
"Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen. Christians are boiled in dung"
- Gittin 57a
"If it be proven that someone has given the money of israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of this earth."
- Choschen Ham 388, 15

"A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely if by so doing Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
- Choschen Ham 266, 1
See further: http://www.talmudlies.com/

Maybe now we can understand why we have had planned wars for hundred, yes, even thousands of years on this planet, and why the Illuminati don't care about millions of people of all races being killed in these wars. We need to understand that these people, having the power they have, are doing this out of belief that they are superior and have a divine right to rule over us 'goyim'. In the eyes of a Talmud believing Khazar-Jewish banker NO HUMAN dies in a war between countries, only goyim. And goyim, for those believing in the Mosaic Law (which you have just read about) the Non-Jews shouldn't be treated better than cattle, if even that.
You don't believe this? Ask a rabbi. Jan van Helsing, researcher and author of "Secret Societies and Their Power in the 20th Century" was one of those who did, and the answer he got was: "Of course! We are the chosen people! You are a goy (singular of goyim)."


by

Wes Penre illuminati News

eternal_spirit
25-10-2008, 02:30 PM
I also need to introduce you to an interview with a Mosaic Jew, way back in 1976, done by Walter White. It is called "The Harold Wallace Rosenthal Interview" and can be read here on the Illuminati News website (http://www.illuminati-news.com/rosenthal-interview.htm). It proves even further how arrogant and murderous those Jews in power are. Mr. Harold Wallace Rosenthal, then age 29, was the administrative assistant to Senator Jacob K. Javits of New York (d. 1986), another Mosaic Jew. But I warn you - it is a very disturbing reading!
The Talmud, the ultimate authority in Orthodox Judaism, plumbs the depths of moral and spiritual depravity. In the past, wherever they went, the Mosaic or Talmudic Jews became legendary for their crookedness and their diabolical ingenuity in taking advantage of those with whom they came in contact. They were both feared and despised. As a direct result of their chicanery they were expelled from one nation after another.
Am I too harsh and too outspoken on this subject? On the contrary, I could fill a thick book with more information on this, and perhaps I will one day, so I am only touching the surface here. To tell you the truth, American readers, a number of our 'glorified' forefathers were much more outspoken on this issue than even Adolf Hitler.
Benjamin Franklin: "We must protect this young nation from any insidious influence... That menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone, depreciated its commercial integrity, have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated. They have sneered at and have tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state and have, when opposed, tried to strangle that country financially...
They are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and on other people not of their race.
If you do not exclude them from the United States in the Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed in in such numbers that they will doninate and devour the land and change our form of government... I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves."
George Washington, the first U.S. president: "The Jews work more effectively against us than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in. It is much to be lamented that each state long ago has not hunted them down as pests to society and the greatest enemies we have to happiness in America" [7 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#7)]
Similar convictions are expressed in the writings of such notables as Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, among many others.
Some might say I am one of these Neo-Nazis, who wants to kill off all the Jews, just like Hitler did. This is not true at all. This article does not specifically relate to the Jewish people as a whole (I know people whom are Jewish and I also have Jewish acquaintances, and they are all very nice, caring and friendly). There is a significant difference between a Khazar, a Zionist, a Talmudist, the Hebrew Blood Alliance on the one side and an ordinary Jew in the street. I am only concerned about what is written in the Talmud, and about the fact that the Talmud IS APPLIED TODAY.

bryan
25-10-2008, 03:24 PM
The reason why isn't difficult to guess: It's because David Icke was accused of being "antisemitic", thus anyone who uses the term must be of the same ilk and have similar motives. But surely people have sense enough to tell the difference between the two. Then again, maybe not.

All the sense in the world won't help people to see a difference where there is none.

For those who may not be aware of the background, about 10 or 11 years ago, there was a period when David Icke's talks were picketed by the Anti-Nazi League. David Icke was considered to be an neo-nazi because he said the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were not fake, but indeed written by the Zionists. Among the publications which promoted this smear against David Icke were The Guardian and The Big Issue.

It wasn't just the SWP or your average Guardian reader who believed this stuff either. Some alternative bookshops refused to stock David Icke's books, saying he was anti-semitic. Like the journalists, the booksellers hadn't even read any of his books.

Since those events, whenever I see people labelled as neo-nazis by the MSM, I assume the targets must have said something to upset the Zionists. I've even got to the stage now where I wonder whether the neo-nazis are any more real than Al Qaeda.

Damagedbrainn has understated the case - anyone who uses the term is absolutely certain to be of the same ilk and have similar motives.

snoopsnuffleopagus
25-10-2008, 03:54 PM
ES~you put FALSE words into the mouth of a dead man who IN FACT was not a Bigot in any manner. Explain yourself!



Misattributed to George Washington

They (the Jews) work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America.


Sometimes rendered : The Jews work more effectively against us than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America.


Both of these are doctored statements that have been widely disseminated as genuine on many anti-semitic websites; They are distortions derived from a statement that may be authentic, and was attributed to George Washington in Maxims of George Washington (1894) about currency speculators during the Revolutionary war, not about Jews:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jews

Actual Quote: "This tribe of black gentry work more effectually against us, than the enemy's arms. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties, and the great cause we are engaged in. It is much to be lamented that each State, long ere this, has not hunted them down as pests to society, and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."


More information is available at Snopes. com: "To Bigotry, No Sanction"

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/thejews.asp

As for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it is well proven to be PLAGIRISM from a Literary Work. I informed you of this just a coupla days ago, for the umpteenth time, so why do you persist in putting forth the LIE that it is the 'Secret' Plot of Jews to enslave humanity?


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060911-zion.html


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1797/whats-the-story-with-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion


http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2006/Aug/16-372389.html


To the young Researchers on this Message Board: Go Easy :)


Check Everything~Cross Reference~Seek Origin


I have only implored ES to exercise Quality Control, so that the Materiel he presents is accurate and presented in its original Context.

Here is another ACTUAL Quote from George Washington

May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this Land, continue to merit and enjoy the goodwill of the other Inhabitants; while EVERYONE shall sit under their own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make them afraid.

So.......how about an insightful analysis for this quote, es?

cycles of time
25-10-2008, 04:10 PM
its almost guaranteed that most,if not all the anti-zionists you find in america will also be:

anti-mexican native american


blind hypocrisy and hatred prevails in their minds

runciter
25-10-2008, 04:24 PM
Both of these are doctored statements


yes i think they may be forgeries, but i'm not sure.


As for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it is well proven to be PLAGIRISM from a Literary Work. I informed you of this just a coupla days ago, for the umpteenth time, so why do you persist in putting forth the LIE that it is the 'Secret' Plot of Jews to enslave humanity?


here's a jewish researcher who disagrees with you:

Maurice Joly Plagiarized "Protocols of Zion" (not vice-versa)

By Henry Makow Ph.D.

It is forbidden to mention the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (1905) without the Disclaimer that, of course, they are a "forgery" of Maurice Joly's "Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" (1864.)

The assumption is that since Protocols appeared some 40 years after Dialogue, it plagiarized the earlier work. But I will suggest that Protocols actually predated Dialogue and Joly borrowed from it. In other words, far from being an anti-Semitic ruse, the "Protocols of Zion" are authentic.

I have already argued that the two documents are neither similar nor derivative, although they have some lines and words in common. "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is essentially a brilliant Master Plan for tyranny, i.e. the New World Order. It is the key to understanding our present predicament. (This is not a condemnation of all Jews, only the nucleus of bankers and high-level Masons directing this diabolical war against the human race.)

"Dialogue in Hell" was a veiled Masonic Jewish attack on Napoleon III, an example of how they championed liberalism to undermine the Old Order and usurp power, as described in the Protocols themselves. (The author of Protocols is contemptuous of liberalism and all egalitarian programs. They are just gimmicks to manipulate the masses.)

Reading Kerry Bolton's monograph "The Protocols of Zion In Context" (Renaissance Press, 2003) it became obvious that Joly was plagiarizing from The Protocols and not vice-versa.

Joly, a Jew whose real name was Joseph Levy, was a lifelong Mason and member of the "Lodge of Mizraim" where the Protocols document originated. He was the protege of Adolph Cremieux (Isaac Moise Cremieux 1796-1880) the head of the lodge and a Minister in the Jewish-backed government of Leon Gambetta.

The plot is described in the Protocols as "centuries-old." It most likely predates "Dialogue." Joly was well versed in the Protocols and borrowed from it to flesh out the unpopular authoritarian position of Machiavelli, which he ascribed to Napoleon III.

Joly, who committed suicide in 1879, was in the habit of "borrowing." He is accused of plagiarizing a popular novel by Eugene Sue, namely "Les Mystères du Paris." (1845) Also his work is predated by one by another of Cremieux's proteges, Jacob Venedy, entitled, "Machiavelli, Montesquieu, Rousseau." (1850)

In 1884 Mme. Justine Glinka, the daughter of a Russian General living in Paris, hired Joseph Schorst, a member of Joly's Mizraim Lodge to obtain sensitive information. For the sum of 2500 francs, Schorst provided Glinka with "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." He was subsequently tracked down and murdered in Egypt.

The Tsarist government, already heavily infiltrated, sat on the document. Glinka subsequently gave it to a friend who passed it on to Professor Sergius A. Nilus who published it for the first time in 1901.

After the Bolshevik Revolution, Nilus was arrested in Kiev in 1924 ,imprisoned and tortured. The President of the Court told him he had "done them incalculable harm in publishing the Protocols." ("Waters Flowing Eastward" by Paquita de Shishmareff, 1999, pp.74-76.)

CONCLUSION

If your plan for World Domination leaked out, what would you do? Would you admit it? "You got me! My bad!"

No, you'd employ an army of ciphers to convince everyone the document is a hoax motivated by "prejudice" and "anti-Semitism." They have executed this "damage control" perfectly, a measure of their power to deceive even in the presence of the truth.

This is the only Conspiracy that has prevailed in spite of the Blueprint being freely available. It demonstrates the credulity (or venality) of the intelligentsia and the masses.

They have colonized our minds first. We cannot name our oppressor for fear of being accused of "anti-Semitism." It's as though Black slaves working on cotton plantations were taught it was "racist" or "prejudiced" to mention the White slave driver. Since the majority of Jews are ignorant of this plot, and are manipulated like everyone else, racism is a ploy to divert attention from a very dire problem.

The Illuminati (top-rung Masonic Jews and their non-Jewish allies) have distributed some wealth and power to the masses (liberalism, socialism) as a way of securing ultimate power for themselves. According to the Protocols, they will eventually withdraw these benefits once their "invisible government" is invincible. The "war on terror" should be seen in this context.

In my view, "Protocols Deniers" are complicit in this Conspiracy, which is responsible for most human suffering and will lead to a great deal more. As a Jew, I don't want this responsibility on my head, or on other innocent Jews or Masons.

http://www.henrymakow.com/maurice_joly_plagiarized_proto.html

runciter
25-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Ofcourse it will be very difficult/impossible to turn the clock back and give the country back to it's original inhabitants.
But surely they should be compensated.
Surely they deserve to be given basic human rights.
My favoured solution would be the one state where everyone has one vote each and the majority rules.
Exactly the same thing what occured in South Africa.


i 100% agree with you, stelios.

snoopsnuffleopagus
25-10-2008, 04:35 PM
its almost guaranteed that most,if not all the anti-zionists you find in america will also be:

anti-mexican native american


blind hypocrisy and hatred prevails in their minds

True


YO!!! es; what do you make of this?




“To Bigotry No Sanction,
to Persecution No Assistance”

George Washington's Letter to the
Jews of Newport, Rhode Island

(1790)

On August 17, 1790, Moses Seixas, the warden of Congregation Kahal Kadosh Yeshuat Israel, better known as the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island, penned an epistle to George Washington, welcoming the newly elected first president of the United States on his visit to that city. Newport had suffered greatly during the Revolutionary War. Invaded and occupied by the British and blockaded by the American navy, hundreds of residents fled, and many of those who remained were Tories. After the British defeat, the Tories fled in turn. Newport’s nineteenth-century economy never recovered from these interruptions and dislocations.

Washington’s visit to Newport was largely ceremonial—part of a goodwill tour Washington was making on behalf of the new national government created by the adoption of the Constitution in 1787. Newport had historically been a good home to its Jewish residents, who numbered approximately 300 at the time of Washington’s visit. The Newport Christian community’s acceptance of Jewish worship was exemplary, although individual Jews such as Aaron Lopez and Isaac Elizer were unable to obtain full political equality as citizens of Rhode Island. The Jews of Newport looked to the new national government, and particularly to the enlightened president of the United States, to remove the last of the barriers to religious liberty and civil equality confronting American Jewry.

Moses Seixas’s letter on behalf of the congregation – he described them as “the children of the Stock of Abraham” – expressed the Jewish community’s esteem for President Washington and joined “with our fellow citizens in welcoming [him] to New Port.” The congregation expressed its pleasure that the God of Israel, who had protected King David, had also protected General Washington, and that the same spirit which resided in the bosom of Daniel and allowed him to govern over the “Babylonish Empire” now rested upon Washington. While the rest of world Jewry lived under the rule of monarchs, potentates and despots, as American citizens the members of the congregation were part of a great experiment: a government “erected by the Majesty of the People,” to which they could look to ensure their “invaluable rights as free citizens.”

Seixas expressed his vision of an American government in words that have become a part of the national lexicon. He beheld in the United States “a Government which to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance—but generously affording to All liberty of conscience, and immunities of citizenship: - deeming every one, of whatever nation, tongue or language equal parts of the great Governmental Machine: – This so ample and extensive federal union whose basis is Philanthropy, mutual confidence, and public virtue, we cannot but acknowledge to be the work of the Great God, who ruleth the Armies of Heaven, and among the Inhabitants of the Earth, doing whatsoever seemeth [to Him] good.”

Seixas closed his letter to the president by asking God to send the “Angel who conducted our forefathers through the wilderness into the promised land [to] conduct [Washington] through all the difficulties and dangers of this mortal life.” He told Washington of his hope that “when like Joshua full of days, and full of honour, you are gathered to your Fathers, may you be admitted into the Heavenly Paradise to partake of the water of life, and the tree of immortality.”





Not surprisingly, it is Washington’s response, rather than Seixas’s epistle, which is best remembered and most frequently reprinted. Washington began by thanking the congregation for its good wishes and rejoicing that the days of hardship caused by the war were replaced by days of prosperity. Washington then borrowed ideas – and actual words – directly from Seixas’s letter:

The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.

Washington’s concluding paragraph perfectly expresses the ideal relationship among the government, its individual citizens and religious groups:

May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.

Washington closed with an invocation: “May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.”

The letter, a foundation stone of American religious liberty and the principle of separation between church and state, is signed, simply, “G. Washington.” Each year, Newport’s Congregation Kahal Kadosh Yeshuat Israel, now known as the Touro Synagogue, re-reads Washington’s letter in a public ceremony. The words deserve repetition.


ES; why would you attribute the Character of Bigotry to a man who was not a Bigot? I'm curious.

runciter
25-10-2008, 04:43 PM
True


mmmh..

to me being anti-zionist simply means being pro-peace and pro-freedom.

we must thank the zionists for the last wars and the spreading fascism..

mynameis
25-10-2008, 04:44 PM
ANTI-FASCIST ACTIVISTS MURDERED IN MOSCOW. An anti-fascist activist was stabbed to death in Moscow, according to an October 14 report by the Prima news agency. Fyodr Filatov was admitted to the hospital on October 10 after an attack by four assailants and died soon afterwards. He was killed right outside his home and security cameras recorded the attack, the newspaper "Nevskoe Vremya" added. The article pointed out that two murders of anti-fascist activists in Moscow (Aleksandr Ryukhin in April 2006 and Aleksey Krylov in March 2008) remain unsolved. The Sova Information-Analytical Center mentioned on October 14 that postings on neo-Nazi web sites claimed credit for the murder in the name of a previously unknown far-right group.

NEO-NAZIS MURDER SCHOOLGIRL IN IRKUTSK. Neo-Nazis killed a 16-year-old girl in Irkutsk, Russia because they thought she was a member of an anti-fascist group, according to an October 17 report by the Jewish.ru web site. Three neo-Nazis beat Olga Rukosyla to death after noticing that she had red laces in her shoes--a sign of membership in an anti-fascist group. Sources assert that she wore the laces as a fashion statement rather than as a sign of a political affiliation.

JAPANESE CITIZEN ATTACKED IN MOSCOW. Police are investigating an attack on a Japanese man in Moscow as a possible hate crime, according to an October 21 report on the web site of the national daily "Komsomolskaya Pravda." Murato Yasuhiro, 45, was attacked by a group of young men in an underground passageway near Leninsky Prospekt. When passersby called the police, the assailants dropped their victim to the floor and fled. He was subsequently hospitalized.

NEO-NAZI WHO KILLED JEWISH VIOLINIST ESCAPES CUSTODY. A neo-Nazi suspected of ten murders in Moscow escaped from custody, according to the national daily "Kommersant" dated October 23. On October 20, police escorted Vasily Krivetz to the site where he had allegedly murdered a Jewish violinist so that he could show them exactly how he killed his victim. Despite the fact that he was handcuffed, Krivetz managed to escape and has yet to be found. Investigators brought negligence charges against one of the officers.

ANTI-EXTREMISM LAW TO EXTEND CONTROL OVER INTERNET. Russia’s Duma is studying the draft law that envisages tightening control over the Russian section of Internet under the aegis of countering extremism, “Gazeta” reported on October 20. "The version drawn up by the Russian General Prosecutor's Office has been taken as a basis [for the proposed legislation] and 99% of it does not differ from the [earlier] April version," Aleksey Rozuvan, a member of the State Duma Committee on Security, told “Gazeta.” A member of the Kremlin’s party, United Russia, Rozuvan noted that he hopes for the Duma committees to get active—in further improving legal enactments linked to the struggle against extremism rather than in correcting the text offered to them. One of the amendments gives courts the possibility of closing access to Internet resources on Russian territory even if they are registered outside Russia. According to the document, "material posted on sites on the Internet network may be declared extremist by a federal court in the place where they were published or the place where the individual or organization which posted them is located."

“The document also adjusts the system for the news media to work with warnings issued by law-enforcement bodies on the impermissibility of disseminating extremist materials,” “Gazeta” reported. “It means that a warning will be subject to mandatory publication in the source if it has not been legally appealed.” In practice, “Gazeta” pointed out, “the authorities, including the law-enforcement bodies, have viewed the Internet for years as a form of media outlet and, correspondingly, have prosecuted the authors of several texts available on the web. The best known case is of Savva Terentyev of Syktyvkar, punished with a one year suspended sentence for comments in a blog on livejournal.com.

Without even waiting for the adoption of the law, in June Moscow's Kuntsevo District Court ordered the closure of access to the site Ingushetiya.ru, whose owner was Magomed Yevloyev, recently killed, supposedly accidentally, by a policeman in a police car. “The court reached this decision on the premise that the owner of the site was registered in Moscow, even though the site was registered in the United States,” “Gazeta” added. Russian Union of Journalists Chair Vsevolod Bogdanov admits that extremist propaganda is widespread on the Internet. "What the Internet allows itself to do today is impermissible," Bogdanov told “Gazeta.” "However, the draft law could also violate the sphere of freedom of thought and freedom of belief, and will be used as a tool to fight a particular viewpoint or a particular position." Bogdanov does not believe that if the law is adopted, extremist material on the Internet will diminish.

RACIST SENTIMENT USED TO JUSTIFY SEIZURE OF PROPERTY. The head of a district administration in Russia's Zabaykalsky Region allegedly appealed to racist sentiment in an attempt to justify seizing the property of an ethnic minority businessman, according to an October 20 report by the Sova Information-Analytical Center. In 2006, Shakhbala Askerov, a local businessman and Russian citizen, purchased a fuel storage facility. The head of the district surrounding the city of Nerchinsk, Aleksandr Pereboev, reportedly seized the property and after Askerov’s protest, wrote a letter to the governor in which he warned: "Public opinion in the district believes that people of 'Caucasian nationality' do not take the interests of the Russian-language population into account."

Askerov sent a complaint to the Prosecutor's Office charging Pereboev with race discrimination. He pointed out that as a citizen of Russia, he is "not indifferent to the problems of my fellow countrymen." The Prosecutor's Office is reviewing the complaint.

RUSSIA RANKS 141ST IN PRESS FREEDOM. Russia ranks 141 out of 173 countries in the 2008 press freedom index published on October 22 by Reporters Without Borders, a Paris-based professional organization. The survey says that Russian media "continues to be subject to violence and harassment."


Jews arrested for assaulting Arabs
Oct 21, 2008 7:30 AM

Israeli police have arrested nine Jews suspected of recent assaults against Arabs in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, including several firebombings that set some homes ablaze, a spokesman said.

The violence coincided with rioting last week in the northern city of Acre, where tensions between Jews and Arabs flared after an Arab drove into a Jewish neighbourhood on Yom Kippur, a Jewish holy day when traffic largely comes to a halt.

Arabs comprise about a fifth of Israel's population and have long complained of discrimination.

Some Israeli Jews view Arab citizens of the Jewish state with suspicion over their sympathy and support for Palestinians in the occupied territories.

Micky Rosenfeld, a police spokesman, said six Jews were arrested in Tel Aviv on suspicion of involvement in firebombings of Arab homes in the city.

The attacks caused damage but no injuries.

Police arrested three other Jews on Sunday after scuffles with Arabs in Jerusalem, where a garbage truck driven by an Arab was stoned.

The driver was slightly injured.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/2217926

snoopsnuffleopagus
25-10-2008, 04:56 PM
mmmh..

to me being anti-zionist simply means being pro-peace and pro-freedom.

we must thank the zionists for the last wars and the spreading fascism..


I am Pro Everybody

Anti-Bigotry

I have actually Posted several times the most plausible solution for this conundrum in the ME. Received scant interest.

An Esoteric Problem requires an Esoteric Solution

I Promote and Endorse Meritocracy.

runciter
25-10-2008, 04:57 PM
I've even got to the stage now where I wonder whether the neo-nazis are any more real than Al Qaeda.


yes, if you look at mynameis' last post you start wondering.

i think they control many far-right groups around the world.

bryan
25-10-2008, 07:08 PM
yes, if you look at mynameis' last post you start wondering.

i think they control many far-right groups around the world.

When you read stories like the ones below, you can only imagine how many they get away with:


BUSTED! SO-CALLED WHITE SUPREMICIST GROUP EXPOSED AS ISRAELI PROPAGANDA OPERATION

what we have here is what appears to be a group of self-proclaimed NeoNazis using the Israeli propaganda network!

... which goes a long way to explaining why they are never arrested or sued by those groups that raise so much money using them as scarecrows!

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/5090


Police: Jewish GW Student Admits Putting Swastikas On Her Door

George Washington University officials said a Jewish student who complained about swastikas showing up on her door put them there herself.

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=569929


Woman admits role in setting fire framed as hate crime

A woman who allegedly masterminded a 1994 Reedsport arson that raised statewide alarm that she had been the victim of an anti-Semitic hate crime has acknowledged direct involvement in setting the fire.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-187443640.html


3 arrested after anti-Semitic messages found in Pikesville

One of the men is a member of Baltimore Hebrew Congregation.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-vandalism1007,0,255613.story

eternal_spirit
25-10-2008, 07:27 PM
Frank Collin
Fuehrer of The American Nazi Party




The Fuehrer Is Discovered to be Jewish
Parents escaped
His real name is Joseph Cohen, born on Nov 3,1944 in Chicago, conceived in Feb of 1943 in Dachau concentration camp (According to his father).
Dachau was liberated in April of 1945, so obviously his father must have escaped, with the mother?
Read the full story here

http://judicial-inc.biz/frank_collins.htm

snoopsnuffleopagus
25-10-2008, 10:17 PM
so ES.. does being a Bigot brighten your day? Putting Bigoted Lies into the mouth of a dead man(george washington) to portray him as a Bigot is Honourable to you?

Do you perceive a solution for your inner angst, and if so, would you present this solution to us?

Is your personal life so miserable that Posting lies about a dead man elevates your 'Eternal Spirit'?

Is it your expectations that the few remaining years you have of mortal life, you will be embracing this 'Stone of Bigotry'? Wil you go to your grave hating and lying?

It 'sucks to be you'... don't ya think?



I'm curious. Why the Lies in George Washingtons mouth? He's dead, he can't speak for himself, but I can.

eternal_spirit
25-10-2008, 10:37 PM
so ES.. does being a Bigot brighten your day? Putting Bigoted Lies into the mouth of a dead man(george washington) to portray him as a Bigot is Honourable to you?

Do you perceive a solution for your inner angst, and if so, would you present this solution to us?

Is your personal life so miserable that Posting lies about a dead man elevates your 'Eternal Spirit'?

Is it your expectations that the few remaining years you have of mortal life, you will be embracing this 'Stone of Bigotry'? Wil you go to your grave hating and lying?

It 'sucks to be you'... don't ya think?



I'm curious. Why the Lies in George Washingtons mouth? He's dead, he can't speak for himself, but I can.

Snoops Get back to your house of Yaweh with all the other religionist degenerates and Rabbinical rabid racists.

And quit following me round with your pathetic name calling and bile.

snoopsnuffleopagus
25-10-2008, 10:43 PM
Snoops Get back to your house of Yaweh with all the other religionist degenerates and Rabbinical rabid racists.

And quit following me round with your pathetic name calling and bile.

Not good enough ES, why did you put Bigoted Lies into the mouth of a dead man? Simple question, now answer it.

eternal_spirit
25-10-2008, 11:02 PM
Not good enough ES, why did you put Bigoted Lies into the mouth of a dead man? Simple question, now answer it.

I post some articles from a site what do you want them vetted and proved or disproved and over something trivial. Blimey your getting all patriotic about some dead ass President! Unfurl the banners raise the flag! Play the Star spangled banner!

Brainwashed religionist defending a crazed religion

That's you Snoops...

Go talk to Rael


the true task Raël was given was to build a suitable embassy for his alien visitors to meet with earthlings, preferably in the Holy Land. According to the group's Web site, www.rael.org (http://www.rael.org/), it has not been easy, with $7 million raised for a project that could cost three times as much. Following are excerpts from the group's own account of its long, lonely quest for an embassy -- and a country to put it in. NOAM COHEN

The children of Abraham are part-descendants of the Elohim, and it was especially with them that the Elohim retained contact as a way of progressively educating the rest of humanity. That is why all the main religions are waiting for their messengers to return to Jerusalem.

Jerusalem, the ''city of peace,'' has always been the privileged point of contact between the Elohim and humanity. Solomon's Temple was the original embassy welcoming Yahweh, and the embassy which is now being prepared will be the Third Temple.

Dec. 13, 1993: Peace for Israel was scheduled to begin on this the day of the 20th anniversary of Yahweh's encounter with his Prophet Raël.
Regrettably, peace is postponed.


more here
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9403E1D91F3FF936A35752C0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

snoopsnuffleopagus
26-10-2008, 12:01 AM
I post some articles from a site what do you want them vetted and proved or disproved and over something trivial. Blimey your getting all patriotic about some dead ass President! Unfurl the banners raise the flag! Play the Star spangled banner!

Brainwashed religionist defending a crazed religion

That's you Snoops...

Go talk to Rael



Yes, that is what Quality Control entails. YOU make a determination asto the veracity of the Materiel, and if proven false you do not Post it. and it is not a trivial matter as using Lies to foster separation and hatred is a most serious defect of character. Furthermore the Nationality of anyone is unimportant to me as I am not a Nationalist, I am an Earthling(i think). I would have spoken up for this dead person no matter what Nationality, Creed, Ethnicity, or Status in Life.

Do you realise when you Post 'jews think it's OK to rape gentile women', which is a very serious lie, that it fosters hatred?

From henceforth I am your cyber-buddy. I'm willing to spend time with you so that you may achieve a greater degree of equilibrium, thus negating your desire to Post bigoted lies to strengthen your assertions.

Hatred is poison to the Blood. It will age you far beyond your years.

So how do you want to go forward? Can you yourself exercise Self-Restraint. Self-Discipline? Or do you need my assistance, which I am glad to provide.

Think of this: "Do not do to another what you, yourself, would find hurtful".

Quality Control, ES, is your friend.

damagedbrainn
26-10-2008, 12:40 AM
All the sense in the world won't help people to see a difference where there is none.

For those who may not be aware of the background, about 10 or 11 years ago, there was a period when David Icke's talks were picketed by the Anti-Nazi League. David Icke was considered to be an neo-nazi because he said the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were not fake, but indeed written by the Zionists. Among the publications which promoted this smear against David Icke were The Guardian and The Big Issue.

It wasn't just the SWP or your average Guardian reader who believed this stuff either. Some alternative bookshops refused to stock David Icke's books, saying he was anti-semitic. Like the journalists, the booksellers hadn't even read any of his books.

Since those events, whenever I see people labelled as neo-nazis by the MSM, I assume the targets must have said something to upset the Zionists. I've even got to the stage now where I wonder whether the neo-nazis are any more real than Al Qaeda.

Damagedbrainn has understated the case - anyone who uses the term is absolutely certain to be of the same ilk and have similar motives.

He did not say that. His claim was that the Protocols were based on the "illuminati's" actual, but were worded to make it appear as a Jewish Conspiracy as a type of distraction or scapegoating. Have you even read the book in question?

This is one way that it should be easy for people to tell the difference: The "Jews-Did-It" crowd on here also believe that Icke is talking about a Jewish conspiracy, just like his most adamant critics.

john white
26-10-2008, 01:49 AM
I reserve the right to:

1) Critique any religion that imposes on other humans or contains doctrines prejuidiced against other humans

2) Critque any political movement that imposes on other humans or encompasses policies prejudiced against other humans

On that basis, I can criticise both Judaism and Zionism

Neither Judaism or Zionism can be valid reasons NOT to critique the record of the State of Israel since it has come into existence

In particular its illegal war, its refusal to comply with United Nations resolutions, and its dehumanising treatment of the Palestinian people

So lets get that out of the way

HOWEVER

There is also a very great deal of prejudice and desire to impose against Jews and Zionists to be found in essentially every conspiracy community on the net: that is no more acceptable

In particular, there are many posters on here who will uses phrases such as "zionist shill" etc on a regular basis as a flat out term of insult, divorced from any evidence against the person they throw these labels at: the mods try to keep this to a reasonable level, but it could only be stopped by severe censorship and culling of the membership

Is that "Hate Speech"?

Well actually: yes it is

To be prejudiced against someone purely on the basis of attaching labels to them IS hatred in action

It has reasons, of course, and even excuses, chief amongst them a certain level of immaturity amongst truthseekers especially when they are relatively young or relatively unable to see past the dogma's they have chosen to replace the ones they had originally imposed upon them during their upbringing

Its also not going to go away or stop anytime soon, if ever during any of our lifetimes, and it is the nature of the conspiracy thought scene that there will always be someone dredging up the same debunked sources time and time and time again

However I would caution mynameis to be careful of becoming a blanket apologist for what SHOULD be criticised simply because he recognises the irrational way in which many go about criticising it

Bottom line is: we all have a long long way to go to develop into well rounded human beings who can effect meaningful and positive change in this world, and NONE of us should let ourselves forget it

That's what I wanted to say :)

kasalt
26-10-2008, 02:11 AM
This is what David Icke had to say on this topic:The ADL dubbed me "anti-Jewish" which anyone reading my books or hearing my talks will know to be the ultimate fantasy.

The fact that a guy called Ivan Fraser was writing on the website forum in this same period about his view of a fundamental Jewish connection to the conspiracy (nothing whatsoever to do with me and not my view) was also used as "evidence" that I was "anti-Semitic".

Ironically, the first venue in Ottawa, the Bronson Centre, canceled because it is owned by an order of nuns and they said they would not let me speak because I was anti-Christian! In South Africa, I was dubbed anti-Muslim!! You have got to laugh, really.
Source: http://www.greatdreams.com/icke.htm

john white
26-10-2008, 02:29 AM
This is what David Icke had to say on this topic:The ADL dubbed me "anti-Jewish" which anyone reading my books or hearing my talks will know to be the ultimate fantasy.

The fact that a guy called Ivan Fraser was writing on the website forum in this same period about his view of a fundamental Jewish connection to the conspiracy (nothing whatsoever to do with me and not my view) was also used as "evidence" that I was "anti-Semitic".

Ironically, the first venue in Ottawa, the Bronson Centre, canceled because it is owned by an order of nuns and they said they would not let me speak because I was anti-Christian! In South Africa, I was dubbed anti-Muslim!! You have got to laugh, really.
Source: http://www.greatdreams.com/icke.htm

And I'd agree that Icke walks a careful balance in his written work whenever he discusses Zionism or Judaism, and in my view has always done so successfully

Something that can't always be said of links off the headlines page, but then, where exactly does one draw the line? It will always be a difficult one

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 04:53 AM
Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion
http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/Articles/04/protocol_serpent.gif
The Protocol Serpent

Here we go again! I don't know how many times these horrific Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion have been discussed on the Internet, in books, in videos and elsewhere. They first became widely known in 1901, when they fell into the hands of the Russian Professor S. Nilus. He published them under the title "The Jewish Peril". Then, in 1921 VIctor Marsden translated them into English under "THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion2.htm#PROTOCOL%20No.%201)".
Understandably, the Protocols created rage, fear, disbelief and any other strong emotions you can think of, because they are so incredibly evil and they target people like you and I. The authors of the Protocols want us all dead or enslaved!
The next public reaction was denial; no one can be that vicious. Just because it is so hard for people to comprehend such evil, it was an easy task for the Zionists to spread the rumors that the Protocols were forgeries, made up by someone to blame the Jews and put them in a situation where people would hate them. Many people took this to heart without doing any deeper research, simply because it was more convenient, and hopefully the threat would 'disappeared'.
Now I have to disappoint those who bought the lie that the Protocols are forgeries. They are not! There is evidence they are authentic, and I will show them to you:
1. Almost everything that is written in the Protocols have become reality or is well on its way to be! If you don't believe me, read them again - very carefully. You will clearly see that the Protocols are implemented all over the world - TODAY.
2. The Protocols are of Jewish origins! How do I know? Because they are all blueprints to implement the teachings of the Talmud, the Jewish Sacred Scripture! Again, if you don't believe me, read the Talmud! Everything that is written in the Protocols is also written in the Talmud. To prove my point, I am going to quote from this unbelievably evil book under the next section, and you will see.
3. Some may say the Protocols are written by Zionists, which is a political "Jewish" movement, contrary to Judaism, which is a religion, something totally different. WRONG! First of all, Zionism has only been around since the late 1800's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#The_Historic_and_Religious_Origins_of_Zion ism), while the Talmud was written down around 200 CE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud), but the oral version of the Jewish law goes back way further, to old Babylon and even further back. This means that though the Protocols were written fairly recently, the ideas behind them go back thousands of years.
The above statements should prove my point, especially after you have read the next section:

The Talmud
http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/Articles/04/talmud.jpg
The TALMUD

What a lovely book this is. Although I definitely by no means justify what people like Hitler did, this book plus the Protocols were the reasons why Hitler, George Washington, Martin Luther and many, many others from history wanted to hunt down the Jews.
Everything in this section of the article are from Jewish sources, so there is no reason to blame me for publishing this; it is already out in the open, although not well known. It is just a matter of connection the dots, folks.


If we return to the Protocols, there may still be some readers doubting their origins. If so, bear with me and you are soon going to change your minds. The following quotes are out of the Talmud (translated from a German version into English). Read them and you will understand why the barbarian Khazars were interested in suddenly becoming "Talmud Believers", and perhaps also why the Jews always have been hunted, wherever they have resided. Is there a reason behind it?
The scary part is that the Talmud is not some evil thing of the past; there are a lot of Jews who actually believe in this and live by it TODAY!
"Only the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle"
(goyim = human cattle) [1 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#1)]
- Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a
"The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves" [2 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#2)]
- Midrasch Talpioth 225
"The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs"
- Orach Chaiim 57, 6a
"Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals"
- Kethuboth 3b
"The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively" [3 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#3)]
- Zohar II, 4b
"As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews" [4 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#4)]
- Iore Dea 337,1
"To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of God"
- Sanhedrin 58b
"God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews"
- Talmud IV / 8 / 4a
"The human (the Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn't make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant"
- Talmud V / 2 / 43b + 44a
"Towards a Non-Jew the Jew doesn't cause an adultery... Punishable for the Jew is just the adultery towards his next, that means the wife of a Jew. The wife of the Non-Jew is excluded"
- Talmud IV / 4 / 52b
"There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren't their wives"
- Talmud IV / 4 / 81 + 82ab
"You (the Jews) have made me, Jahveh, the only true lord in the world, so I will make you the only ruler in the world"
"Who wants to be smart shall occupy himself with money matters, because there are no corner pillars in the Thora that are more important, because they are like a sparkling fountain"
- Talmud IV / 3 / 173b
"Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews" [5 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#5)]
- Zohar I, 168a
"Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first"
- Babba Bathra 54b
"If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit"
- Choschen Ham 183,7
"Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin"
- Babba Kama 113a
"The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it"
- Talmud IV / 3 / 54b
"The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him"
- Talmud IV / 1 / 113b
"The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew" [6 (http://www.illuminati-news.com/Articles/04.html#6)]
- Talmud IV / 2 / 70b
"When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews"
- Erubin 43b
"Whoever disobeys a Rabbi deserves death... Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell."
- Erubin 21b
"If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there"
- Moed Kattan 17a
"Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men")
- Baba Mezia 114a-114b
"Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God"
- Sanhedrin 58b
O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work
- Sanhedrin 57a
"If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
- Baba Kamma 37b
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews
- Baba Mezia 24a
If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned
- (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)
God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
- Sanhedrin 76a
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep
- Sanhedrin 57a
Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
- Baba Kamma 37b
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile
- Baba Kamma 113a
Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals
- Yebamoth 98a
Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth
- Abodah Zarah 36b
Gentiles prefer sex with cows
- Abodah Zarah 22a-22b
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
- Sanhedrin 55b

A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
- Sanhedrin 54b

"When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
- Kethuboth 11b
"Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
- Sanhedrin 59a

"Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
- Abodah Zara 26b
"To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
- Libbre David 37

"Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age."
- Yebhamoth 11b
"Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen. Christians are boiled in dung"
- Gittin 57a
"If it be proven that someone has given the money of israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of this earth."
- Choschen Ham 388, 15

"A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely if by so doing Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
- Choschen Ham 266, 1
See further: http://www.talmudlies.com/

Maybe now we can understand why we have had planned wars for hundred, yes, even thousands of years on this planet, and why the Illuminati don't care about millions of people of all races being killed in these wars. We need to understand that these people, having the power they have, are doing this out of belief that they are superior and have a divine right to rule over us 'goyim'. In the eyes of a Talmud believing Khazar-Jewish banker NO HUMAN dies in a war between countries, only goyim. And goyim, for those believing in the Mosaic Law (which you have just read about) the Non-Jews shouldn't be treated better than cattle, if even that.
You don't believe this? Ask a rabbi. Jan van Helsing, researcher and author of "Secret Societies and Their Power in the 20th Century" was one of those who did, and the answer he got was: "Of course! We are the chosen people! You are a goy (singular of goyim)."


by

Wes Penre illuminati News

according to VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps, who believes the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' to take over the world, that JFK spoke of, is being orchestrated by the roman catholic church thru the jesuit order, the protocols were written by the jesuits.. why?
to frame the jews and blame the russian revolution, which they had engineered like the French Revolution, on them..

kblood
26-10-2008, 05:16 AM
according to VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps, who believes the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' to take over the world, that JFK spoke of, is being orchestrated by the roman catholic church thru the jesuit order, the protocols were written by the jesuits.. why?
to frame the jews and blame the russian revolution, which they had engineered like the French Revolution, on them..

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lots that points to the protocols being a forgery. Who made it? Could be a number of organisations.

Isnt there something other than the protocols defining Zionism as something about non-zionist being lower races/people, that should be percieved to them as similar to cattle. Good workforce but no rights at all and very expendable if it could further their own gains and goals?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 05:29 AM
by the way, there are 13 million jews worldwide vs approx 1 billion Catholics, which do you think is more powerful??

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 05:37 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

Lots that points to the protocols being a forgery. Who made it?

the jesuits if you believe Eric Jon Phelps..

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 05:52 AM
according to VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps, who believes the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' to take over the world, that JFK spoke of, is being orchestrated by the roman catholic church thru the jesuit order, the protocols were written by the jesuits.. why?
to frame the jews and blame the russian revolution, which they had engineered like the French Revolution, on them..

btw his website is http://www.vaticanassassins.org/

lizzy
26-10-2008, 05:53 AM
according to VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps, who believes the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' to take over the world, that JFK spoke of, is being orchestrated by the roman catholic church thru the jesuit order, the protocols were written by the jesuits.. why?
to frame the jews and blame the russian revolution, which they had engineered like the French Revolution, on them..


Your post is a perfect example of twisted facts and logic......Phelps is jewish and likes to sell blood diamonds (on the side, LOL).

try this......

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406&ei=tlDySOAVkrDZAveghPcO&q=the+emissaries+of+jahbulon+lightbringers&hl=fr

Note the The Emissaries of Jahbulon are cabbalists ..and whose at the top of the freemason pyramid?

BTW....it's ZIONIST jews...

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 06:37 AM
Phelps is jewish

wot is yr evidence 4 this?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 06:40 AM
and likes to sell blood diamonds

what is yr evidence they r blood diamonds??

runciter
26-10-2008, 07:04 AM
He did not say that. His claim was that the Protocols were based on the "illuminati's" actual, but were worded to make it appear as a Jewish Conspiracy as a type of distraction or scapegoating. Have you even read the book in question?

This is one way that it should be easy for people to tell the difference: The "Jews-Did-It" crowd on here also believe that Icke is talking about a Jewish conspiracy, just like his most adamant critics.

it isn't a jewish conspiracy, it's a sabbatean frankist conspiracy.

stelios
26-10-2008, 07:05 AM
There is also a very great deal of prejudice and desire to impose against Jews and Zionists to be found in essentially every conspiracy community on the net: that is no more acceptable

In particular, there are many posters on here who will uses phrases such as "zionist shill" etc on a regular basis as a flat out term of insult, divorced from any evidence against the person they throw these labels at: the mods try to keep this to a reasonable level, but it could only be stopped by severe censorship and culling of the membership


Exactly what weve come to expect from the resident zionist appeaser.
I know you would love to censor these debates by culling the membership.

For your erudition Zionism is a political system based on a Racist ideology exactly the same as Apartheid. Your plea for zionists not to be treated with prejudice is laughable because zionists are most evil prejudiced beings on the planet.

You are totally wrong to link Zionism with any religion.

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:17 AM
wot is yr evidence 4 this?

in his own words, yes, he is a zionist, he's in the fifth of six types of zionist-

quote

5. Anti-Jesuit/anti-Vatican Christian Zionists—led by anti-Jesuit, biblical futurists holding to a literal reading of the prophets, maintaining that the beloved Hebrew/Jewish/Israelitic people have a right to live in their promised land apart from obedience to the law of Moses, now done away. They abhor the government of Israel as being totally controlled by Rome through the pope’s New York City-based Council on Foreign Relations to the detriment of the Jewish people living in Israel. They oppose the government of Israel, but defend the Jewish people’s right to live in the promised land of Israel to the exclusion of all Arabs and non-racial Jews.

These are the six Zionists. I am of the fifth catagory.

Sincerely in faith,

Brother Eric "

runciter
26-10-2008, 07:17 AM
by the way, there are 13 million jews worldwide vs approx 1 billion Catholics, which do you think is more powerful??

the bankers.

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:19 AM
Exactly what weve come to expect from the resident zionist appeaser.
I know you would love to censor these debates by culling the membership.

For your erudition Zionism is a political system based on a Racist ideology exactly the same as Apartheid. Your plea for zionists not to be treated with prejudice is laughable because zionists are most evil prejudiced beings on the planet.

You are totally wrong to link Zionism with any religion.

not all jews are zionists, indeed some vehemently oppose it..

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:20 AM
the bankers.

yep who work 4 the pope - hofjuden / Court Jews..

runciter
26-10-2008, 07:24 AM
yep who work 4 the pope - hofjuden / Court Jews..

what a beautiful bedtime tale.. you're right,

better to forget about the rothschilds before falling asleep.

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:27 AM
what is yr evidence they r blood diamonds??

if u want to listen to eric explain why he imports diamonds listen to

http://www.mediafire.com/?yttitgmrxnz

around mins 18-23

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:29 AM
if u want to listen to eric explain why he imports diamonds listen to

http://www.mediafire.com/?yttitgmrxnz

around mins 18-23

or pick up link reply 51

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36073&page=6

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:31 AM
what a beautiful bedtime tale.. you're right,

better to forget about the rothschilds before falling asleep.

you'll fall asleep 4 a long time if they have their way unless u r 1 of them..

runciter
26-10-2008, 07:34 AM
if you go on spamming i will start reporting your posts.

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 07:37 AM
http://www.iamthewitness.com/


http://www.iamthewitness.com/img/Menachem_Begin.jpg
Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
— Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:51 AM
if you go on spamming i will start reporting your posts.

who u talkin to?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 07:56 AM
http://www.iamthewitness.com/


http://www.iamthewitness.com/img/Menachem_Begin.jpg
Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
— Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983

and which of the 6 types of zionist is Begin?
maybe he's working for the pope??
maybe he's trying to stir things up
maybe he's helping convey the idea that Jews are planning to take over the world, which is exactly what the Jesuits want you to believe
the question is: who's behind the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' that JF Kennedy spoke of, is it the jews or is it the Roman Catholic Church
13 million Jews (not all of whom are Zionists) vs 1 billion Catholics
that means one Jew is worth 50 Catholics if you do it on a numbers basis
i reckon its the Catholics
try reading VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps edn 3
you'll enjoy it..

runciter
26-10-2008, 08:12 AM
who u talkin to?

to the wind.

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:14 AM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5291275/Are-Hitler-Rothschild-David-Icke

Article by Icke - Hitler a Rothschild.

john white
26-10-2008, 08:14 AM
Exactly what weve come to expect from the resident zionist appeaser.
I know you would love to censor these debates by culling the membership.

For your erudition Zionism is a political system based on a Racist ideology exactly the same as Apartheid. Your plea for zionists not to be treated with prejudice is laughable because zionists are most evil prejudiced beings on the planet.

You are totally wrong to link Zionism with any religion.

Thats a prime example of you being a muppet Stelios, you havn't read my post, you've just seen red, your angry, you use "zionist appeaser", its easy

With this kind of thinking, Jews against zionism are zionist appeasers because they use the word zionism

Read it again. I made quite clear that judasim and zionism where different from each other and that zionism was political

I reserve the right to:

1) Critique any religion that imposes on other humans or contains doctrines prejuidiced against other humans

2) Critque any political movement that imposes on other humans or encompasses policies prejudiced against other humans

On that basis, I can criticise both Judaism and Zionism

Neither Judaism or Zionism can be valid reasons NOT to critique the record of the State of Israel since it has come into existence

In particular its illegal war, its refusal to comply with United Nations resolutions, and its dehumanising treatment of the Palestinian people


So what are you on about?

This is exactly the kind of irrationality I go on to talk about

Also, get over yourself about group moderator decisions over at the 9/11 forum, especially given the number of chances you received over there

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Jews in the Vatican

The Vatican is Roman Catholic; this we know, don't we? Well, how come then that even Popes are Jews? The late Pope John Paul II, for example was Jewish, having a Jewish mother. And let us not forget that the first, original Pope, Peter, was of course Jewish [however, see the second paragraph beneath the List of Jewish Popes below for clarification]. Likewise, some other early Popes were from Jewish families as well, such as St. Zosimus (417-418); his father's name was Abram. Pope Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned as being Jewish, based upon the writings of Pope Pius V. [17]

Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:

Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22]

Among the cardinals of the Catholic Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. There have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. [16]

Despite the fact there was no such office or word as "pope" until about the fourth century and that Peter was neither Roman Catholic nor pope, commencing with Peter, the first ten popes were "Jews" of some description (Philip I by William Thomas Walsh, Shead & Ward London, 1938).

Some "Jewish" popes previous to Malachy's prophecy include, Zephyrin (199-217), Siricus (384-399), Hormidas (514-523), and Analdet II (1130-1138). (Gert Haendler: Kirchengeschichte, Evangelische Verlagsanstalt Berlin, 1980).

Conclusively, the "New Testament" of the Bible was authored and written by Jews. [23]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33434
Zionist Jews control the Vatican

Quote from Mayer Amschel Rothschild
(http://liberty-tree.ca/) "Give me control of a nation's money
and I care not who makes the laws."


quote: jesuitsdidit

the question is: who's behind the 'monolithic, ruthless conspiracy' that JF Kennedy spoke of, is it the jews or is it the Roman Catholic Church
13 million Jews (not all of whom are Zionists) vs 1 billion Catholics
that means one Jew is worth 50 Catholics if you do it on a numbers basis
i reckon its the Catholics

runciter
26-10-2008, 08:27 AM
HOWEVER

There is also a very great deal of prejudice and desire to impose against Jews and Zionists to be found in essentially every conspiracy community on the net: that is no more acceptable


i didn't like this sentence..

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:30 AM
Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, Rothschild quotes: (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/nathan_mayer_rothschild_quote_4f94) http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes.nsf/stars4.gifhttp://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes.nsf/starh.gifhttp://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes.nsf/viewadd.gif (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Nathan.Mayer.Rothschild.Quote.4F94)
I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, ...The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply.

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:30 AM
more Eric Phelps recordings

want to know the truth about Jesuit control of Hofjuden banking? Take a listen to real covert truth!


Quote:
eric jon phelps show -- october 15, 2008

jesuit control of banking

financial crisis analysis

mp3 format, 53 minutes, 24 kbps
(left click):
NOTICE

alternate download site:
(left click):
http://www.mediafire.com/?n53tinn4ymk

eric jon phelps show -- october 16, 2008

finance - part 2

mp3 format, 53 minutes, 24 kbps
(left click):
NOTICE

alternate download site:
(left click):
http://www.mediafire.com/?zzj4zwajnnr

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:33 AM
Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:

Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22]



wots the source for this claim?

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:36 AM
The Zionist Connection: The CFR is Dominated by Jews The Zionist Connection is the sinewy thread that ties this entire, vast, traitorous enterprise together. The Bush Administration is only a puppet operation. The Council on Foreign Relations has among its leading members such Zionist fanatics and servants as Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condi Rice, and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. In all, over seventy percent of the membership of the CFR is Jewish! Also on the CFR's rolls: Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve; Robert Rubin, Clinton's former Secretary of the Treasury; and Madleine Albright, Clinton's former Secretary of State. Every one of these persons is a Jew and a Zionist Agent. Their first allegiance is to the Jewish World Authority. Here are some other top Jewish names that dominate the CFR. Indeed, the CFR is nothing more than America's premier Zionist Secret Society, a traitorous front for global Jewish interests and headquarters for the furtherance of the Zionist plot for a global Jewish Utopia: Carla Hills, Henry Bienen, Kenneth Duberstein, Martin Feldman, Richard Salomon, Bart Friedman, Maurice Greenberg, Morton Janklow, Ira Lipman, Seymour Sternberg, Frank Wisner, Michael Moscow, Roger Altman, Jessica Einhorn, David Greenberg, Louis Perlmutter, Joshua Steiner, Anita Wien, Douglas Schoen, Malcolm Weiner, Charles Schumer, Nancy Soderberg, Peter Tannoff, Abraham Lowenthal, Marc Thiessen, Daniel Yergin, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Carl Gershman, Peter Rosenblatt, Joseph Lieberman, Mortimer Zuckerman. All of those listed are CFR Jews. All are globalists. As CFR conspirators and associates, all, in my opinion, are deceitful traitors, guilty of treason, enemies of the Constitution of the United States of America. They deserve to be arrested, indicted, and, if found guilty by a jury of 12 honest American Patriots, sent to prison or executed.more here

http://www.rense.com/general72/murd.htm

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:39 AM
Freemasonry has long praised the Cabala, and its top officials have admitted that the Lodge’s rituals and teachings are but the offspring of the Jewish tradition. Albert Pike, former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, wrote: "One is filled with admiration, on penetrating into the Sanctuary of the Cabala."
In 1855, the renowned Rabbi Isaac Wise wrote: "Freemasonry is a Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."
The Jewish Tribune newspaper, in 1927, in an editorial, stated: "Freemasonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?"
http://www.conspiracyworld.com/web/Articles/Article%20Images/cabalistic_star_of_david_richardsons.jpg In Richardson’s Monitor of Freemasonry (p. 64), this symbol is used to illustrate the Royal Arch Degree. Masonic literature is replete with examples of the Jewish Star of David and other Cabalistic tokens, symbols, emblems, and signs.
Ray Novosel, writing from Australia in 2004, states: "Zionist world leaders, men in influential positions with the various Masonic organizations everywhere, have worked ‘hand in glove’ for a universal world revolution, which will bring in the One World Church and a One World Government. Many Masonic Lodges are exclusively Jewish, as are the controlling B’nai B’rith Lodges—the mother of the infamous and very dangerous Anti-Defamation League (ADL)."
Albert Pike maintained that, "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion." Pike also asserted that the true meanings of the mysterious and arcane symbols of Freemasonry are found in the occult philosophy of the Jewish Cabala, that Freemasonry owes all its secrets to the Cabala, and that Freemasonry is a religion based on the Cabala.
few Christian leaders have the courage to even mention the Jewish Cabala, let alone expose it. Timid, little cowards, they are too frightened, worried they will be reported to the Jewish ADL thought police and that they might (horrors!) be branded an "anti-Semite."
http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0126.htm

zarah
26-10-2008, 08:39 AM
wots the source for this claim?

I wondered that when I read it, so I did a bit of looking and found this:

Was there ever a Jewish pope?

St. Peter was Jewish. The only other "pope" generally acknowledged from a Jewish family is Anacletus II (1130), an antipope.

Likely, other early popes were from Jewish families, but the records are not conclusive. Speculation on other Jewish Popes include St.Zosimus (417-418), based on his father's name of Abram. Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned based on some Pope Pius V writings.

From http://www.popechart.com/FAQ.htm

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:40 AM
WHO ARE THE REAL OWNERS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE?

1. Rothschilds of London and Berlin
2. Lazard Brothers of Paris
3. Israel Moses Seaf of Italy
4. Kuhn, Loeb & Co. of Germany and New York
5. Warburg & Company of Hamburg, Germany
6. Lehman Brothers of New York
7. Goldman, Sachs of New York
8. Rockefeller Brothers of New York

All of the above listed men are Jews. Note that ALL are also "foreign" with established headquarters in Europe even the ones in New York are only "branches" of European establishments. There are an additional three hundred people, approximately, mostly relatives, who hold stock or shares, and they comprise the ownership of this monster, the massive wealth of which is beyond man's comprehension.

Not to mention Alan Greenspan.

zarah
26-10-2008, 08:42 AM
Although this is a pretty interesting website too:

Dear Rxxxxxxxxx --- Hear me out and pass this out, it's true about the Vatican, but not about the Pope. And this is no whitewash of John Paul II.

John Paul II is not the Pope, but an anti-Pope, the fourth in a row to sit in the Chair of Peter since 1958.

On October 26, 1958, it appears that Cardinal Joseph Siri was elected Pope, and after threats and maneuvering, Siri was shunted aside, and an agent of worldwide Freemasonry and Zionism was put in his place. This was Angelo Roncalli, who took the name John XXIII.

Something like this was repeated in 1963, and that story is in Malachi Martin's book, 'Keys of this Blood' somewhere between pages 590 and 610. (Malachi Martin was triple agent, who is the unidentified priest in the 1966 article in Look Magazine, 'How the Jews Changed Catholic Thinking.' (which you can find on the internet via google)

I don't expect non-Catholics to accept the visions of Catholic saints and 'Blesseds', but many of these church approved saintly people had visions of a counterfeit church taking over the structures of the Vatican and the Catholic Church worldwide. From 1958 on the 'counterfeit church', as Blessed Anna Katrina Emmerick saw in her visions circa 1820, began to subvert the Church. Changing all the sacraments, all the catechisms, the Mass, and, as fast as possible, replacing the old Bishops with the new counterfeit Bishops like the probable Marrano Jew, 'Archbishop' Joseph Bernardin, who ended his career right before he died looking like an aids patient, by going to Israel and stating that 'anti-Semitism' was started by St. John the Apostle in the Gospel of St. John. This was the first volley in what legions of Jews would say 10 years later against the movie, The Passion of the Christ.

Paul VI was 'elected' in 1963 (Montini) and Montini was a marrano Jew, as announced with proof that the Montinis were an old Jewish family going back centuries. Under Paul VI, the Top Jews and Freemasons took over the entire structure of the Catholic Church, so that today you see the digusting 'bishops' selling out God and country. everyone of which has been approved by the worldwide Jewish network before they are appointed by the actor Karol Woytila, John Paul II.

http://www.cephas-library.com/catholic/catholic_pope_has_jewish_mother.html

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:42 AM
If a Gentile exposes Zionism, they are called "anti-semitic" which is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide the Zionists actions.

But, if a Jew is the person doing the exposing, they resort to other tactics.

First, they ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

If the information starts reaching too many people, they ridicule the information and the persons giving the information.

If that doesn't work, their next step is character assassination. If the author or speaker hasn't been involved in sufficient scandal they are adept at fabricating scandal against the person or persons.

If none of these are effective, they are known to resort to physical attacks.

But, NEVER do they try to prove the information wrong.

Jack Bernstein, (assassinated by MOSSAD)

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:42 AM
The Zionist Connection: The CFR is Dominated by Jews The Zionist Connection is the sinewy thread that ties this entire, vast, traitorous enterprise together. The Bush Administration is only a puppet operation. The Council on Foreign Relations has among its leading members such Zionist fanatics and servants as Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condi Rice, and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. In all, over seventy percent of the membership of the CFR is Jewish! Also on the CFR's rolls: Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve; Robert Rubin, Clinton's former Secretary of the Treasury; and Madleine Albright, Clinton's former Secretary of State. Every one of these persons is a Jew and a Zionist Agent. Their first allegiance is to the Jewish World Authority. Here are some other top Jewish names that dominate the CFR. Indeed, the CFR is nothing more than America's premier Zionist Secret Society, a traitorous front for global Jewish interests and headquarters for the furtherance of the Zionist plot for a global Jewish Utopia: Carla Hills, Henry Bienen, Kenneth Duberstein, Martin Feldman, Richard Salomon, Bart Friedman, Maurice Greenberg, Morton Janklow, Ira Lipman, Seymour Sternberg, Frank Wisner, Michael Moscow, Roger Altman, Jessica Einhorn, David Greenberg, Louis Perlmutter, Joshua Steiner, Anita Wien, Douglas Schoen, Malcolm Weiner, Charles Schumer, Nancy Soderberg, Peter Tannoff, Abraham Lowenthal, Marc Thiessen, Daniel Yergin, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Carl Gershman, Peter Rosenblatt, Joseph Lieberman, Mortimer Zuckerman. All of those listed are CFR Jews. All are globalists. As CFR conspirators and associates, all, in my opinion, are deceitful traitors, guilty of treason, enemies of the Constitution of the United States of America. They deserve to be arrested, indicted, and, if found guilty by a jury of 12 honest American Patriots, sent to prison or executed.more here

http://www.rense.com/general72/murd.htm

rense is an agent..

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:43 AM
"They are the so-called neo-cons, or neo-conservatives. A compact group, almost all of whose members are Jewish. They hold the key positions in the Bush administration, as well as in the think-tanks that play an important role in formulating American policy and the ed-op pages of the influential newspapers....

Seemingly, all this is good for Israel. America controls the world, we control America. Never before have Jews exerted such an immense influence on the center of world power." Uri Avnery, "The Night After,"

Counterpunch, April 10, 2003
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:44 AM
rense is an agent..

No Phelps is more likely to be an agent.

zarah
26-10-2008, 08:44 AM
ES, as much as I find your posts informative, can you please times a million reference them?

zarah
26-10-2008, 08:45 AM
rense is an agent..

What makes you think that?

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:49 AM
wots the source for this claim?

If you google Jewish popes or list of jewish popes etc there's many sources.

ES, as much as I find your posts informative, can you please times a million reference them?

Most are. :)

zarah
26-10-2008, 08:51 AM
If you google Jewish popes or list of jewish popes etc there's many sources.

ES, as much as I find your posts informative, can you please times a million reference them?

Most are. :)


Yes, but not all. So. :p

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:51 AM
If you google Jewish popes or list of jewish popes etc there's many sources.

ES, as much as I find your posts informative, can you please times a million reference them?

Most are. :)


yeah so wots the source for this claim?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:52 AM
What makes you think that?

i've read it..

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:55 AM
No Phelps is more likely to be an agent.

i dont think so..

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesuitsdidit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=583808#post583808)
rense is an agent..

LOL Phelps claims the CFR is run by a Catholic/Jesuit priest from New York.

I'll go with Rense's version of who runs the CFR - it adds up Phelp's version doesn't.

eternal_spirit
26-10-2008, 09:02 AM
The Ideological Background of the Illuminati

From Juri Lina's Under the Sign of the Scorpion, p. 22-28

"Jüri Lina was born in 1949 in occupied Estonia. He was banned from journalistic work in 1975 and then worked as a night watchman until he was forced to emigrate in 1979 after repeated conflicts with the political police, KGB."


In 1492, the Alumbrado (The Enlightened) movement was founded by Spanish Marranos (baptised Jews who secretly kept their Talmudic faith) and a similar organization was founded in France in 1623 - "Guerients" who changed their name to Illuminati in 1722. The Spanish authorities attempted to stop the Alumbrado movement as early as 1527 when Ignatius Loyola was temporarily arrested for his activities with the Illuminati.

Loyola (Inigo Lopez de Regalde), who was of Jewish blood, was born in the 1490s. In 1534, he founded his own order -- the Jesuits -- taking out a loan for the purpose. THe Pope acknowledge the Jesuit Order on the 5th of April 1540.

Benjamin Disraeli, author and prime minister of Great Britain in 1868, and 1874-1876, himself a Jew wrote in his book "Coningsby" (London, 1844) that the first Jesuits were Jews. In this new order, all members were under Loyola's surveillance. It was the Jewish Jesuit Cardinal Roberto Bellarmino (1542-1621) who ordered the philosopher Filippo Giordano Bruno burnt at the stake on the 17th of February 1600.

In 1771, 23 year old (Adam) Weishaupt met Kolmer, a Danish Kabbalist Jew who had just returned from Egypt. Kolmer initiated Weishaupt into the secrets of Osiris magic, the Cabbala and the ALumbrado movement. Nesta Webster assumed that he had been known in Italy as Altotas, Cagliostro's master. Kolmer's occult knowledge made a deep impression on Weishaupt, who later chose the Egyptian pyramid as the Illuminati's symbol of power...

One year earlier (1770) Weishaupt had been given a post as lecturer in canon law at the University of Ingolstadt. He later received his doctor's degree and in 1773, at the age of 25, became a professor at the same university...

It was no coincidence that the Order of the Illuminati was founded on the first of May. Among the Cabbalist Jews, this date, 15 (1.5) symbolized the sacred number of Yahweh and became their occult holiday. According to Goethe, the first of May -- the day following Walpurgis Night -- is when the dark mystical forces are celebrated.

At this time a young Jew named Mayer Amschel (born February 23, 1744) was being tutored to become a rabbi. Amschel lived with his parents in the Jewish ghetto of Frankfurt am Main. He later took the name Rothschild. It was Mayer Amschel Rothschild who convinced Weishaupt to wholly accept the Frankist Cabbalist doctrine and who afterwards financed the Illuminati. Rothschild had given Weishaupt the task of restablishin the old Alumbrado movement for the Cabbalist Jews.

Theoretical Cabbal embraces only secret teachings about God and nature. But practical Cabbala (such as Frankism) attempts to affect earthly matters. It involves the use of amulets and magic numbers as well as the conjuring of evil spirits. Both the Talmud and Midrash contain Cabbalist information. ("Ancient Oriental and Jewish Secret Doctrines, Leipzig, 1805.)

Jakob Frank (1726-1791) was the most frightening phenomenon in Jewish history, according to the Jewish professor Gershom Scholem. His actions were totally immoral. Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman shows in his book "To Eliminate the Opiate" (New York, 1974) that there was a clear connection between Frankism and Weishaupt's Illuminism. The goal of the Frankists was to work in secret to establish Jewish world supremacy. Professor Scholem has clearly documented that they achived extensive political power.

Jakob Frank (actually Leibowicz) was born in 1726, in Polish Galicia. He officially converted to Catholicism but this was just camouflage. Jakob Frank was jailed in 1760 for continuing to teach the Cabbala (Zohar) and for practising secret Jewish rituals. In 173, the Russians attacked the region of Poland where Frank was held prisoner. He was released and moved to Offenbach (near Frankfurt am Main) in Germany where he began to lead a luxurious and wild life. His deeds were evil, his personality nefarous. This information comes from Scholem's books "Cabbala" (New York and Scarborough, 1974) "Sabbatai Zevi" (New Jersey, 1973) and "The Messianic Idea in Judaism" (New York, 1971).

Jakob Frank summed up his doctrine in his book "The Words of the Lord". He asserted that the creator God was not the same as the one who had revealed himself to the Israelites. He believed God was evil. Frank proclaimed himself the true Messiah. He vowed to not tell the truth, rejected every moral law, and declared that the only way to a new society was through a total destruction of the present civilization. Murder, rape, incest and drinking of blood were perfectly acceptable actions and necessary rituals.

Frank was one of those refractory Jews who worshipped devils. The extremist Jews were particularly fond of a devil called Sammael. (C.M. Ekbohrn, "100000 frammande ord", Stockholm, 1936, p. 1173.)

Joseph Johann Adam Weishaupt was born on the 6th of February 1748 in Ingolstadt, by the Danube, in Bavaria, into an assimilated Jewish family. (Pouget de Saint Andres, "Le auteurs caches de la revolution francaise", p. 16). His father was a professor at the University of Ingolstadt. ("The Trail of the Serpent", Hawthorne, 1936, p. 68) He was educated in a Jesuit monastery and studied law, literature, and atheist philosophy. In 1773 the 25 year old Weishaupt left the Jesuit Order. This may have been bvecome he had developed his independent ideology, but the subsquent dissolution of the Jesuit Order in 173 by Pope Clemetn XIV may also have been a factor. The Jesuit Order in France, Spain, Portugal, Naples and Austria was dissolved. A few years later, Weishaupt's



"Perfektabilist" Order began to work against the Roman Catholic Church. In 1814, however, the Jesuit Order was reestablished and through new infiltrations became more powerful than ever before.

In 1775, Professor Weishaupt became a member of the lodge THeodor zum guten Rat within eclectic freemasonry. Later, Weishaupt was to use this foothold in Munich to allow his Illuminati to infiltrate all the other Masonic lodges, due to the fact that he wielded great influence over the ldoge through its Grand Master, Professor Franz Benedict (Xaver) von Baader, who had joined the Illuminati.

It was Baron Adolf von Knigge (born 16th October 1752 in Bredenbeck, die 6th May 1796 in Bremen), Adam Weishaupt's closest collaborator, who later helped him to gain entrance to different Masonic organizations. (Pat Brooks, "The Return of the Puritans", NOrth Carolina, 1976, p. 68-69.) In 1777, he received the highest degree of the Knights Templar (Knight of Cyprus) in Hanau. The 27-year-old Knigge joined the Illuminati in Frankfurt in 1780 under the alias of Philo (the original Philo was a Jewish scholar.)

The Illuminati began to work especially actively after the entrance of Adolf von Knigge in July 1779. Baron von Knigge also wrote the book "Concerning Association with People". He brought together many powerful men.

It was largely thanks to Philo that the organization spread through the whole of Germany. Both financial and sexual favors were used to gain control of people in high places.

In time, the Illuminati won control of every Masonic order in the world. Important financiers joined the organization: Speyer, Schuster, Stern and others. The Jews had therefore gained a very powerful position. Their base of operations was Frankfurt am Main.

The Jesuits had taught Weishaupt much, not least their doubtful morals. He encouraged his closest collaborators to use the lie as a tool and to avoid giving the public any true explanations. The leaders of the Illuminati saw to it that their most dangerous opponents and others who might be a threat to the Order were poisoned. (Gerald B. Winrod, "Adam Weishaupt - A Human Devil.")

Weishaupt got his wife's sister pregnant and, not being able to pay 50 marks for an illegal operation, he unsuccessfully tried to bring about an abortion by the use of drugs. A boy was born on the 30th of January 1784. Later, Weishaupt suddenly became rich...

In 1777, the Illuminati began to cooperate with all the Masonic lodges (especially the Grand Orient) in order to infiltrate them. The Duke of Brunswick, Grand Master of Germany, said in 1794 that the Masonic lodges were controlled by the Illuminati. When Weishaupt became a member of the Grand Orient, the lodge was backed financially by Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1743-1812), according to the British historian Nesta Webster.

Bernard Lazar, a well-known Jewish author, wrote in his "L'Antisemitisme" in 1894, that exclusively Cabbalist Jews surrounded Weishaupt. Confiscated documents show that of 39 Illuminati holding lesser leading positions, 17 were Jews (i.e., 40%.) The higher one looked in the ranks, the larger was the percentage of Jews. Even the fact that the Illuminati headquarters in Ingolstadt were later converted into a synagogue was symbolic of this conspiracy. Lazar stated that all these Jews became the agents of revolution because they had "revolutionary souls."

There were four especially important Jews in the Illuminati leadership. Hartwig (Napthali Herz) Wessely, MOses Mendelssohn, the banker Dnaiel von Itzig (1723-1799) and the businessman David Friedlander (La Vielle France, 31st of March, 1921.)

All of the initiated had taken a voew to "eternal silence and undeviating loyalty and total submission to the Order." Each member had to promise "I pledge to count what is best for the Order as my own best. I am ready to serve it with my personal fortune, my honour and my blood... the friends and enemies of the Order shall also become my friends and enemies..."

Lastly, each new member was warned: "If you are a traitor and a perjurer, then know that the brothers shall take up arms against you. Do not hope to flee or to find a place to hide. Wheerever you are, shame, contempt and the wrath of the brothers shall pursue and torment you to your innermost entrails."

Most members were led to believe that the lower degrees of mystery they had reached were the highest. Few members had been informed about the true purpose of the Order.

The Illuminati's codex was presented in Masonic terms and prescribed lies, treachery, violence, torture and murder in order to reach all its goals. Many members believed themselves to be working for an improvement of the world. They never guessed that Weishaupt's true purpose was to establish Novus Ordo Seclorum, a global program for world domination.

The Protestant princes and rulers in Germany were well disposed to Weishaupt's official plan to destroy the Catholic Church and they sought membership in his Order. Through these men Weishaupt gained control over the Masonic Orders, into which hhe and his other Jewish cronies were initiated in 1777. To prevent the rulers from understanding the true aims of the Illuminati, he forestalled their contact with the higher degrees.

During the year following its founding, the Order was spread exclusively through southern Bavaria. Later, it gained a foothold also in Frankfurt am Main, Eichstadt and other cities, according to "Vagledning for frimurare" / "Guidance for Freemasons", Stockhgolm, 1906, p. 166.

Officially the Illuminati were supposed to spread virtue and wisdom, which was to subdue evil and stupidity. They wanted to make great discoveries in all branches of science. The Illuminati were to be cultivated into noble, eminent people, according to "Guidance for Freemasons."

...Adam Weishaupt began to work especially closely with the Jewish Masonic leader Moses Mendelssohn (1729-1786). Mendelssohn became, so to speak, Weishaupt's invisible guide. Moses Mendelssoh was officialy known by the Jews as a poor writer who became one of Germany's foremost philosophers during the "age of enlightenment". He called himself a philosopher and a cultural personality. Officially, Mendelssohn's aim was to "modernize" Judaism so that the public might accept the Jews when they ostensibly gave up Talmudism and "assimilated" to Western culture. The Illuminatus Mirabeau wrote a book in 1787 about Moses Mendelssohn's political "reforms" to spread even more fantastical myths about him. In secret, however, Mendelssohn encouraged the Jews to faithfully keep their beliefs of their fathers. He led the Illuminati in Berlin

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 09:05 AM
have you found the source for your 'Jewish Popes' yet?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 09:07 AM
have you found the source for your 'Jewish Popes' yet?

or did you just make it up?

zarah
26-10-2008, 09:33 AM
i've read it..

You've just read a list of popes that are meant to be Jewish and you didn't believe that. Is there a more substantial reason?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 09:38 AM
You've just read a list of popes that are meant to be Jewish and you didn't believe that. Is there a more substantial reason?

Anonymous (at least to me)

kasalt
26-10-2008, 02:57 PM
its almost guaranteed that most,if not all the anti-zionists you find in america will also be:

anti-mexican native american


blind hypocrisy and hatred prevails in their minds

What do you think about people who are anti-Palestinian?

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 02:59 PM
What do you think about people who are anti-Palestinian?

they must be jewish world-haters..

kasalt
26-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Isnt there something other than the protocols defining Zionism as something about non-zionist being lower races/people, that should be percieved to them as similar to cattle. Good workforce but no rights at all and very expendable if it could further their own gains and goals?

This is a very excellent point, which is why it has been ignored...

mynameis
26-10-2008, 05:25 PM
have you found the source for your 'Jewish Popes' yet?

Eh? :confused:

runciter
26-10-2008, 05:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

Lots that points to the protocols being a forgery. Who made it? Could be a number of organisations.

Isnt there something other than the protocols defining Zionism as something about non-zionist being lower races/people, that should be percieved to them as similar to cattle. Good workforce but no rights at all and very expendable if it could further their own gains and goals?

the talmud?

kasalt
26-10-2008, 06:10 PM
"The way I see it, the fact of the Jews' racial peculiarity will necessarily influence their social relations with non-Jews. The conclusions which—in my opinion—the Jews should draw is to become more aware of their peculiarity in their social way of life and to recognize their own cultural contributions. First of all, they would have to show a certain noble reservedness and not be so eager to mix socially—of which others want little or nothing. On the other hand, anti-Semitism in Germany also has consequences that, from a Jewish point of view, should be welcomed. I believe German Jewry owes its continued existence to anti-Semitism."—Albert Einstein, A. Engel translator, "How I became a Zionist", The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein, Volume 7, Document 57, Princeton University Press, (2002), pp. 234-235, at 235.


"Anti-Semitism will be a psychological phenomenon as long as Jews come in contact with non-Jews—what harm can there be in that? Perhaps it is due to anti-Semitism that we survive as a race: at least that is what I believe."—Albert Einstein, English translation by A. Engel, The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein, Volume 7, Document 37, Princeton University Press, (2002), p. 159.


"What would you say, for example, if I did not deny there are good aspects of anti-Semitism? I say that anti-Semitism will educate the Jews. In fifty years, if we still have the same social order, it will have brought forth a fine and presentable generation of Jews, endowed with a delicate, extremely sensitive feeling for honor and the like."—Theodor Herzl, as quoted by Amos Elon, Herzl, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, New York, (1975), pp. 114-115.


Source: http://www.jewishracism.com/index.htm Quote of the Day, Sunday, 10/26/2008

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 06:20 PM
"The way I see it, the fact of the Jews' racial peculiarity will necessarily influence their social relations with non-Jews. The conclusions which—in my opinion—the Jews should draw is to become more aware of their peculiarity in their social way of life and to recognize their own cultural contributions. First of all, they would have to show a certain noble reservedness and not be so eager to mix socially—of which others want little or nothing. On the other hand, anti-Semitism in Germany also has consequences that, from a Jewish point of view, should be welcomed. I believe German Jewry owes its continued existence to anti-Semitism."—Albert Einstein, A. Engel translator, "How I became a Zionist", The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein, Volume 7, Document 57, Princeton University Press, (2002), pp. 234-235, at 235.


"Anti-Semitism will be a psychological phenomenon as long as Jews come in contact with non-Jews—what harm can there be in that? Perhaps it is due to anti-Semitism that we survive as a race: at least that is what I believe."—Albert Einstein, English translation by A. Engel, The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein, Volume 7, Document 37, Princeton University Press, (2002), p. 159.


"What would you say, for example, if I did not deny there are good aspects of anti-Semitism? I say that anti-Semitism will educate the Jews. In fifty years, if we still have the same social order, it will have brought forth a fine and presentable generation of Jews, endowed with a delicate, extremely sensitive feeling for honor and the like."—Theodor Herzl, as quoted by Amos Elon, Herzl, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, New York, (1975), pp. 114-115.


Source: http://www.jewishracism.com/index.htm Quote of the Day, Sunday, 10/26/2008

einstein and herzl were both jesuit temporal co-adjutors (working for the pope's plot) - they are baddies..

kasalt
26-10-2008, 06:23 PM
einstein and herzl were both jesuit temporal co-adjutors (working for the pope's plot) - they are baddies..

Or perhaps Zionism controls Popery. Zionism predates Popery.

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 06:36 PM
Or perhaps Zionism controls Popery.

i dont think so, read VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps..

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Zionism predates Popery.

how is that relevant?

kasalt
26-10-2008, 06:48 PM
how is that relevant?

Popery did not create Zionism. This is easily proven based on the simple fact that Zionism predates Popery. Historically, Zionism created Popery.

mynameis
26-10-2008, 06:56 PM
Popery did not create Zionism. This is easily proven based on the simple fact that Zionism predates Popery. Historically, Zionism created Popery.

Wait for it. Someone's going to say, "Zionists destroyed Rome." :rolleyes:


*gags*

kasalt
26-10-2008, 07:02 PM
Wait for it. Someone's going to say, "Zionists destroyed Rome." :rolleyes:


Why would anyone say that?

stelios
26-10-2008, 08:28 PM
With this kind of thinking, Jews against zionism are zionist appeasers because they use the word zionism

What total nonsense.
Jews who are ANTI ZIONIST as many of them are can hardly be described as appeasers.
You just love to twist things dont you.

Jews Against Zionism seek to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from the Zionist Ideology by:

Providing historical and supporting documentation that Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel.
Providing historical documentation on the ideaology and creation of Zionism, the supporters of Zionism and the negative impact of their actions on the Jewish people in the past hundred years, including their involvement in the holocaust up to the present day.
Publicizing the efforts of traditional Jews to demonstrate that all Jews do not support Zionism, which is being ignored by the mainstream media.
Convince the news media, politicians and the public to cease referring to the state of Israel as the "Jewish State" but to call it what it is: the "Zionist State".
It is our firm belief that when the state of "Israel" is recognized for what it is, a Zionist state which is not guided by the teachings of the traditional Jewish faith, Jews worldwide will be able to live in peace.

Do these guys look like "Zionist Appeasers" to you?
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/195902505_0b8a1e6846.jpg?v=0

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee240/2graphic4me/zionism.jpg

jesuitsdidit
26-10-2008, 08:40 PM
Popery did not create Zionism. This is easily proven based on the simple fact that Zionism predates Popery. Historically, Zionism created Popery.

im afraid u r really stretching the meaning of the words Zionism and create, i'll have to get back to you on this..

john white
26-10-2008, 08:57 PM
What total nonsense.
Jews who are ANTI ZIONIST as many of them are can hardly be described as appeasers.
You just love to twist things dont you.


Yeah right, after you talk a load of shit about me, I was showing you up not talking literally: obviously succesfully

I don't know if your being deliberately twisty or are just too damn angry to be able to think straight, either way, your a waste of time talking too

lizzy
26-10-2008, 09:31 PM
john white..........

Listen to this and try to deny it.

Tuesday 26th Aug Cii broadcast
Guest Andrew Carrington Hitchcock
Part 1 (6.9 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/CII.2008.08.26.Tue.Hitchcock.1of2.mp3
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/CII.2008.08.26.Tue.Hitchcock.1of2.mp3
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/CII.2008.08.26.Tue.Hitchcock.1of2.mp3
Part 2 (7 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/CII.2008.08.26.Tue.Hitchcock.2of2.mp3
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/CII.2008.08.26.Tue.Hitchcock.2of2.mp3
http://www.iamthewitness.com/

both links found here....originally posted by ES.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30332&page=18

john white
26-10-2008, 09:42 PM
john white alwys has to run when contronted with TRUTH......



Sorry, what am I running from? I mentioned Jews against Zionism in the first place, and I understand their position even if neither of you two actually do: blind hate isn't it

Its typical of you Lizzy, you talk loads of shit too, you should marry Stelios, perfect match

Why you've fixated on me as your forum bogeyman I don't know, but what the heck, I suppose its free therapy for you

And DBS is deranged, seriously off his head, the way he treated eric huffscmhid was abominable

w1nstonsm1th84
26-10-2008, 09:50 PM
It's great to debate passionately, but could you all stop it with the personal insults? It is totally unnecessary, and doesn't add to the debate in any way.

Thanks.

john white
26-10-2008, 10:01 PM
I see Lizzy ran away and edited her post when she realised she had lashed out at me for nothing at all

I don't suppose an apology is ever a possibility? LOL!

lizzy
26-10-2008, 10:05 PM
I see Lizzy ran away and edited her post when she realised she had lashed out at me for nothing at all

I don't suppose an apology is ever a possibility? LOL!
you are wrong white, .i had edited it, BEFORE your post.....( and may I add , edited within 1-2 mins, so your watching very closely are'nt you, LOL)

Listen to the audio and LEARN something........(and hear it said that the jewish community are the ones that have been lied to the MOST)

john white
26-10-2008, 10:10 PM
you are wrong white, .i had edited it, BEFORE your post.....( and may I add , edited within 1-2 mins, so your watching very closely are'nt you, LOL)

sorry, what's that? I'm browsing the forum so I must be a Zionist agent I suppose?

You should try straight talking instead of out of the side of your mouth

Oh hang on

You can't can you? You know if you really spilled out what you really think chances are you'd be banned

How tedious!

No wonder your frustrated

Listen to the audio and LEARN something........

I'm hardly ignorant of DBS... though I suspect YOU may be wilfully ignorant of what he is because he re-enforces your own prejudices

mynameis
26-10-2008, 10:11 PM
Looks to me as though wights are trying to get this thread sent to the rant room....why would they do that?:D Please this thread isn't about personal attacks...

mynameis
26-10-2008, 10:16 PM
Blaming banks like anti-Semitism says German economist
Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:41pm GMT

BERLIN (Reuters) - A leading German economist compared the criticism of bankers over the global financial crisis to anti-Semitism in 1930s Germany, according to a newspaper interview released on Sunday.

"In every crisis, people look for someone to blame, for scapegoats," Hans-Werner Sinn, president of the Munich-based Ifo economic research institute, told the newspaper Tagesspiegel.

"Even in the global economic crisis of 1929, no one wanted to believe in an anonymous system failure. Then it hit Jews in Germany, today it is managers," Sinn said, according to a transcript of an interview to be published in Monday's edition.

It could have led to the radicalisation of the Western world and eventually a crisis of confidence in the economic system, said Sinn.

"German history is with us and it is quite clear. The Nazis grew out of the crisis between 1929 and 1931. The Pied Pipers would be ready again today."



The newspaper said Sinn had authorised the quotes.

More than 60 years after World War Two, comments seen as qualifying the horror of the Holocaust, in which Nazis killed 6 million Jews, still cause a stir in Germany.

The Central Council of Jews in Germany demanded an immediate apology from Sinn.


"This comparison is outrageous, absurd and completely misplaced, an insult to the victims," Stephan Kramer, its general-secretary, told the newspaper Neue Ruhr Zeitung.

"It would be news to me if managers were being beaten, murdered or locked up in concentration camps," he added in comments made available in advance of publication on Monday.

Sinn welcomed the government's 500 billion euros (396 billion pounds) bank rescue plan and said that, if politicians had done nothing, as was the case in 1929, the results could have been a meltdown of the financial system and mass unemployment.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKTRE49P1WG20081026



Jew-baiting is alive and kicking
Denis MacShane sounds a timely warning against a pernicious conspiracy theory

When Peter Mandelson was ennobled recently, one lord was reported to have described his new peer as 'a quintessential Jew'. It isn't clear whether or not that was meant as a compliment. Let's assume not. Mandelson is not Jewish in any way orthodox believers, or most other people, would recognise. He has a Jewish-sounding name because his father was Jewish. That's it. So if he is the 'quintessence', on what remote periphery of 'Jewishness' are the people who actually practise Judaism?

That, of course, is beside the point, as anyone familiar with the intellectual contortions of anti-semitism knows. Anyone unfamiliar with that prejudice, or who thought it was a purely historical artefact, should read Denis MacShane's Globalising Hatred: The New Anti-Semitism. MacShane, a Labour MP and former minister, doesn't deal specifically with Mandelson-baiting, but he would recognise the warped thinking behind it. Mandelson's ostensible non-Jewishness is exactly what sets him up as the perfect stereotype: the furtive puppet-master; the Svengali; the 'Prince of Darkness'; slippery, a bit too clever, dishonest.

There is a long tradition of Westminster old boys being snide about Jewish parvenus. Tory grandees in the early Eighties issued a collective harrumph at Margaret Thatcher's promotion of Leon Brittan, Nigel Lawson and Michael Howard ('More old Estonian than old Etonian' in Harold MacMillan's famous dig). MacShane treats that sort of chatter - 'dinosaur Tory anti-semitism' - briskly. He is more concerned about a resurgence of overt and vicious treatment of Jews, including a rise in violent crimes against them. This is no speculation. MacShane presents ample evidence of increased hostility in nearly every country with a large Jewish community - and in those without one, too. In Japan, for example, there is a brisk trade in pamphlets purporting to expose a plot by Jewish financiers to control the world.

The sinister global conspiracy is one of the oldest and most pervasive tropes of anti-semitism. In the first half of the 20th century, that generally meant presenting the Jews as responsible for Bolshevism. In the 1950s, the Foreign Office suspected that the new state of Israel was a Soviet puppet. Meanwhile, the Kremlin was conducting a purge of 'rootless cosmopolitans' - code for Jews. Israel is now generally regarded as an American proxy. Or, rather, America is judged around the world to be controlled by Jews, through the 'Israel lobby'.

MacShane devotes some time to deconstructing that particular idiom. American Jews, he points out, are entitled to call on their government to pursue a certain policy. There are two reasons why that might look pernicious: first, if it is assumed that the government in question exercises no critical judgment of its own - that the 'lobby' is not a supplicant to power but the hidden source of it; second, if it is assumed that the policy request is unquestionably repulsive. Both assumptions in the case of the US alliance with Israel are false. Both, when applied to the influence of Jews, reek of anti-semitism.

There are lots of features of US policy that foreigners, and plenty of Americans, think are misguided. But only with Israel do critics seem to assume that the White House loses all rationality and takes dictation from some extraneous, parasitical force. If the 'Israel lobby' was all-powerful, MacShane notes, it might have done something by now about Washington's solid alliance with Saudi Arabia, which is the chief exporter of an ideology explicitly dedicated to the destruction of Israel and of the Jews.

MacShane looks at the set texts of radical jihadi Islam and finds them full of abuse of Jews. He observes that the idea of an aggressive Jewish conspiracy is not a marginal strand in Islamist radicalism, but the essential premise. An ideological edifice of murderous hatred towards Jews is being erected in communities around the world and yet many people think anti-semitism is something that once happened in pre-war Europe. Worse, many left-leaning, liberal intellectuals seem to think that anti-Israel rhetoric is one of the more reasonable bits of the jihadi agenda - that on Zionism, at least, the terrorists have a point. Except that, by Zionists, al-Qaeda means Jews and its reason for hating them is that they are conspiring to control the world. Any complicity with that notion was anti-semitic in the Thirties and it still is.

Globalising Hatred is a small klaxon of a book, more concerned with raising the alarm than building a thesis. The arguments sometimes reel around giddily but are steadied on their way by solid facts. And in case you wondered, no, Denis MacShane is not Jewish. Does that make a difference to his argument?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/26/politics


Party split foils German gov't condemnation of anti-Semitism
By Assaf Uni, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Holocaust, Israel News

An initiative to issue a sweeping condemnation of anti-Semitism in Germany, in time to coincide with the 70th anniversary of "Kristallnacht," the Night of the Broken Glass, has fallen victim to a dispute between two rival parties in the Bundestag, the German parliament, according to the German weekly Der Spiegel. The pan-partisan initiative, which had gained momentum over the past year, was meant to serve as an emblem of Germany's battle against rising anti-Semitism in the country. The Bundestag was set to approve the initiative by November 9, the date marking the beginning of the pogrom in which hundreds of Jews were murdered, while thousands were rounded up and sent to concentration camps. Synagogues and Jewish businesses were also destroyed in an act that symbolizes the onset of the violent persecution and murder of European Jewry.

Surveys of recent years point to a rise of anti-Semitism in Germany, as is true for most western European countries. Among other things, this increase is fueled by the opinions harbored by these countries' Muslim communities. In recent months, a number of Jewish cemeteries in Germany have been defaced and anti-Semitic or neo-Nazi graffiti has appeared as well. "This awful development [of rising anti-Semitism] calls for an appropriate and dignified response. We can't let it descend into a political fiasco," said Social Democratic Party (SPD) member Gert Weisskirchen, one of the parliament members behind the initiative.

According to Der Spiegel, cross-party discussions broke down when the Christian Democratic Union (CSU), the Bavarian sister party of the Christian Democratic Party (CDU) in government, demanded that an additional passage be appended to the announcement: "It must be recalled that Israel was never recognized by East Germany, that Jewish businesspeople were dispossessed by the East German government and had to flee, and that East Germany broke international law by delivering weapons to an anti-Israeli Syria in 1973."
Advertisement
The wording raised the objection of the Left Party, the democratic successor to East Germany's ruling communist party. A number of members of the party, which has enjoyed growing popularity over the past year, served as high-level functionaries in the communist party. The Left Party has accused the Christian Democratic Union of attempting to push the left out of the resolution and blames it for its failure. Politicians involved in the initiative say the resolution may still be adopted, but only after the anniversary of Kristallnacht.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031271.html



Anti-Zionism Is Not Anti-Semitism
By the Bay Area International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network
Thursday October 23, 2008
As the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network (IJAN), we would like to thank the Berkeley Daily Planet for publishing commentaries such as Marc Sapir’s that expose the violence of the Israeli occupation and challenge the notion that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. IJAN is a growing international network of Jews whose Jewish identities are not based on Zionism but on a plurality of histories and experiences. We share a commitment to participation in struggles against colonization and imperialism. As such, we struggle against Zionism and its manifestation in the State of Israel’s ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and the confiscation of their land. We strongly support efforts to end the war and occupation in Iraq. However, the war waged upon Iraqis is intimately linked to the 60-year occupation of Palestine. Within this context, we ask:

Why is it that people of conscience can protest the occupation of Iraq, yet celebrate the 60-year occupation of Palestine? How can so many on the left criticize US aid to abusive regimes, but accept US funding to Israel as it steals land and agricultural resources and bulldozes the homes of Palestinians? It is time that people who stand for social justice stop exceptionalizing Israel and expose it as a racist state that is creating violence and instability in the region.

For many, this defense of Israel comes from the desire to support the Jewish community and from the perception that criticism of Israel amounts to anti-Semitism. Yet the notion that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-Semitism is ahistorical. And while purporting to speak for all Jews, Zionism has been responsible for the displacement and alienation of Mizrahi Jews (Jews of African and Asian descent) from their diverse histories, languages, traditions and cultures. Zionism also obscures other (non-Zionist) Jewish visions of collective liberation and resistance to political, economic, and/or social domination.

Conveniently, the equation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism is often invoked to justify the targeting and harassment of Palestine solidarity organizations, as we are seeing with the UC Berkeley Students for Justice in Palestine (see https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/10/18/18545326.php). While at times anti-Zionism has been used as a veil for anti-Jewish bigotry, this is not what lies at the heart of anti-Zionist politics. We stand with movements for social justice around the world that see Zionism as colonialism and racism. We stand in solidarity with organizations like Students for Justice in Palestine who support Palestinian liberation, while challenging anti-Jewish prejudice.

Jews, like any other group, are entitled to safety and self-determination. Yet no group is entitled to its freedom at the expense of another. As anti-Zionist Jews, we seek liberation through joint struggle and solidarity with Palestinians, not through isolation. We envision a world based not upon colonization and apartheid, but upon collective liberation.

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-10-23/article/31410?headline=Anti-Zionism-Is-Not-Anti-Semitism

damagedbrainn
26-10-2008, 10:24 PM
Or perhaps Zionism controls Popery. Zionism predates Popery.

It would be really excellent to hear your explanation of why you believe Zionism predates Popery, instead of you just saying so? Is it because Judaism predates Catholicism?

peachped
26-10-2008, 10:27 PM
Looks to me as though wights are trying to get this thread sent to the rant room....why would they do that?:D Please this thread isn't about personal attacks...


Who or what are 'wights'?

kasalt
26-10-2008, 10:29 PM
You know what would have been really ironic? If someone had accused the author(s) of The Protocols of having plagiarized the Protocols from the Talmud! LOL!

Oh wait, someone has, in fact, already done that. Can you guess who? None other than The Venus Project:

"Talmud Protocols And The Learned Elders of Zion"
http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Torah_Talmud_Protocols.html

mynameis
26-10-2008, 10:29 PM
Who or what are 'wights'?

In its original usage the word was wight described a living human being.[2] More recently the word has been used within the fantasy genre to describe undead or wraith-like creatures: Corpses with a part of their decayed soul still in residence. Notable examples of this include the undead Barrow-Wights from the works of J. R. R. Tolkien and the wights of Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game.

Modern German "Wicht" is a cognate, meaning "small person, dwarf", and also "unpleasant person"; in Low German it means "girl". The word is a cognate with Dutch wicht, German Wicht, Old Norse vættir and Swedish vätte. It is not related to the English word "witch". The Wicht, Wichtel or Wichtelchen of Germanic folklore is most commonly translated into English as an imp, a small, shy character who often does helpful domestic chores when nobody is looking (as in the Tale of the Cobbler's Shoes).

peachped
26-10-2008, 10:35 PM
In its original usage the word was wight described a living human being.[2] More recently the word has been used within the fantasy genre to describe undead or wraith-like creatures: Corpses with a part of their decayed soul still in residence. Notable examples of this include the undead Barrow-Wights from the works of J. R. R. Tolkien and the wights of Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game.

Modern German "Wicht" is a cognate, meaning "small person, dwarf", and also "unpleasant person"; in Low German it means "girl". The word is a cognate with Dutch wicht, German Wicht, Old Norse vættir and Swedish vätte. It is not related to the English word "witch". The Wicht, Wichtel or Wichtelchen of Germanic folklore is most commonly translated into English as an imp, a small, shy character who often does helpful domestic chores when nobody is looking (as in the Tale of the Cobbler's Shoes).

I see, tyvm mynameis, never heard of that before.

mynameis
26-10-2008, 10:37 PM
I see, tyvm mynameis, never heard of that before.

Your quite welcome. It's not a common word in fashion these days.

lizzy
26-10-2008, 11:14 PM
sorry, what's that? I'm browsing the forum so I must be a Zionist agent I suppose?

You should try straight talking instead of out of the side of your mouth

Oh hang on

You can't can you? You know if you really spilled out what you really think chances are you'd be banned

How tedious!

No wonder your frustrated



I'm hardly ignorant of DBS... though I suspect YOU may be wilfully ignorant of what he is because he re-enforces your own prejudices

If you cannot respond to the info I sent and you say you are aware of the history written in the Synagog of Satan, well, you have your reasons...:D

As for speaking my mind....:eek: LOL...Is David a mason? or just caught on their zionist web and that of the ADL?

Bet your can't answer that?.........even if you think you know........;)

john white
26-10-2008, 11:29 PM
If you cannot respond to the info I sent and you say you are aware of the history written in the Synagog of Satan, well, you have your reasons...:D

As for speaking my mind....:eek: LOL...Is David a mason? or just caught on their zionist web and that of the ADL?

Bet your can't answer that?.........even if you think you know........;)

Is Icke a Mason was that? Etc Etc Zionist Anti-Defamation League Satanist bogeyman whatever other labels you stick on whatever your afraid of? Or just "their" pawn? Sorry how yawnsome

And however you think YOU know: now THAT's a joke!

It goes like this:

"hi! I'm the dark content of Lizzy's own psyche projected onto the mirror of the world and conning myself I'm "Truth because its easier than actually facing my own fear and transcending it"

Certainly that kind of self-neutering ensures your no threat to the imbalances of Zionism

damagedbrainn
26-10-2008, 11:46 PM
If you google Jewish popes or list of jewish popes etc there's many sources.

ES, as much as I find your posts informative, can you please times a million reference them?

Most are. :)


I thought the common line with you all is that a Jew is simply someone who practices Judaism. And if that's the case, wouldn't "Jewish Pope" be an oxymoron?

kasalt
26-10-2008, 11:47 PM
As for speaking my mind....:eek: LOL...Is David a mason? or just caught on their zionist web and that of the ADL?

What are you talking about? ES has posted links to some of Icke's stuff on this thread. Go back and check them out.

damagedbrainn
26-10-2008, 11:51 PM
it isn't a jewish conspiracy, it's a sabbatean frankist conspiracy.

Ohhhhhh.

I thought it was a "Zionist" conspiracy....or a "Khazar" conspiracy....or an "Ashkenazi" conspiracy.....or a "Talmudic Jew" conspiracy..... You all just make this shit up as you go along. I mean, how synonyms for "Jew" do you people need?

jesuitsdidit
27-10-2008, 12:06 AM
im afraid u r really stretching the meaning of the words Zionism and create, i'll have to get back to you on this..

2moro probably..

lizzy
27-10-2008, 12:11 AM
Is Icke a Mason was that? Etc Etc Zionist Anti-Defamation League Satanist bogeyman whatever other labels you stick on whatever your afraid of? Or just "their" pawn? Sorry how yawnsome

And however you think YOU know: now THAT's a joke!

It goes like this:

"hi! I'm the dark content of Lizzy's own psyche projected onto the mirror of the world and conning myself I'm "Truth because its easier than actually facing my own fear and transcending it"

Certainly that kind of self-neutering ensures your no threat to the imbalances of Zionism

EXACTLY what I expected :D.......NO surprises with this reply......:rolleyes:

Do you EVER read Icke's headlines page ?? I think not....It more your job to protect zionism than expose it.....and with all the great info Icke has offered up you see nothing to worry about?? ......NO , you have no family whose future concerns you........

AHH, ..you have 'infinate consciouness and love'.....yeah, I bet..LOL :eek::rolleyes:

tyler
27-10-2008, 12:24 AM
This old hippy from Malvern is such a bore with his peace and love nonsense.
He is so predictable. Another clueless one to be ignored!

lizzy
27-10-2008, 12:29 AM
This old hippy from Malvern is such a bore with his peace and love nonsense.
He is so predictable. Another clueless one to be ignored!

LOL, :D......indeed,.......feeding the beast...guilty your honour.....:eek:

john white
27-10-2008, 12:36 AM
LOL, :D......indeed,.......feeding the beast...guilty your honour.....:eek:

So Lizzy: how do you know Icke is either a Mason etc or a dupe of one?

Answers on the back of a postcard please

(It will read: "Cos I believe it! So there!")

john white
27-10-2008, 12:39 AM
This old hippy from Malvern is such a bore with his peace and love nonsense.
He is so predictable. Another clueless one to be ignored!

Feeling brave today I see, nice of you to pop up

Fool yourself, by all means, that Love is soft and Love is weak

It is not

Love is the power that leaves one naked stripped of the comfort of one's own Lies

Love is Truth: And Truth is Strength

And Strength does not Hate irrationally, no matter the provocation, or it is not strength at all

stelios
27-10-2008, 01:28 AM
Spliff time again JW?
Or as mynameis stated are you just trying to get these threads binned so nobody will read them?

john white
27-10-2008, 01:45 AM
Nice try Stelios, but I don't reckon I'm who mynameis was referring too

I've very much addressed the topic: the rest of the guff is other people trying not to

Like yourself, of course

Being as you "care" about the topic, its up to you to do your part

john white
27-10-2008, 01:49 AM
I reserve the right to:

1) Critique any religion that imposes on other humans or contains doctrines prejuidiced against other humans

2) Critque any political movement that imposes on other humans or encompasses policies prejudiced against other humans

On that basis, I can criticise both Judaism and Zionism

Neither Judaism or Zionism can be valid reasons NOT to critique the record of the State of Israel since it has come into existence

In particular its illegal war, its refusal to comply with United Nations resolutions, and its dehumanising treatment of the Palestinian people

So lets get that out of the way

HOWEVER

There is also a very great deal of prejudice and desire to impose against Jews and Zionists to be found in essentially every conspiracy community on the net: that is no more acceptable

In particular, there are many posters on here who will uses phrases such as "zionist shill" etc on a regular basis as a flat out term of insult, divorced from any evidence against the person they throw these labels at: the mods try to keep this to a reasonable level, but it could only be stopped by severe censorship and culling of the membership

Is that "Hate Speech"?

Well actually: yes it is

To be prejudiced against someone purely on the basis of attaching labels to them IS hatred in action

It has reasons, of course, and even excuses, chief amongst them a certain level of immaturity amongst truthseekers especially when they are relatively young or relatively unable to see past the dogma's they have chosen to replace the ones they had originally imposed upon them during their upbringing

Its also not going to go away or stop anytime soon, if ever during any of our lifetimes, and it is the nature of the conspiracy thought scene that there will always be someone dredging up the same debunked sources time and time and time again

However I would caution mynameis to be careful of becoming a blanket apologist for what SHOULD be criticised simply because he recognises the irrational way in which many go about criticising it

Bottom line is: we all have a long long way to go to develop into well rounded human beings who can effect meaningful and positive change in this world, and NONE of us should let ourselves forget it

That's what I wanted to say :)

I'll quote myself, see if I can get some other reply than being called a "Zionist appeaser"

damagedbrainn
27-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Spliff time again JW?
Or as mynameis stated are you just trying to get these threads binned so nobody will read them?

Hardly anyone reads them anyway, except for entertainment value.

stelios
27-10-2008, 03:52 AM
Hardly anyone reads them anyway, except for entertainment value.
Im glad you are being entertained, most people find Zionism a vile and evil ideology which has brought misery and devastation to millions of innocent people.
Im sure they dont share your sense of humour.
Like this innocent victim of an Israeli cluster bomb attack.

http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/uploads/1/cluster-bomb-victim-483.jpg


Or as John White says maybe we are just all prejudiced against those nice fluffy zionists who carried out this cowardly offence.

zarah
27-10-2008, 06:53 AM
I'll quote myself, see if I can get some other reply than being called a "Zionist appeaser"

What's your definition of a Zionist?

john white
27-10-2008, 10:32 AM
Im glad you are being entertained, most people find Zionism a vile and evil ideology which has brought misery and devastation to millions of innocent people.
Im sure they dont share your sense of humour.
Like this innocent victim of an Israeli cluster bomb attack.

http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/uploads/1/cluster-bomb-victim-483.jpg


Or as John White says maybe we are just all prejudiced against those nice fluffy zionists who carried out this cowardly offence.

Oh I see Vile and Evil ideology in more than ONE place, and I know where the weapons come from

I absolutely abhor Israel's Illegal War and the suffering of the Palestinians

But I ALSO abhor your blind hatred, and the way "Zionism" is thrown around as another word for "evil" around all these conspiracy forums by paranoid idiots. Say Boo! to em? Zionist Shill! Any perceived evil in the world? "Zionists did it Zionists did it Zionists did it! And that is simple stupidity

Zionism, to answer Zarah's question, is nothing more than a political movement supporting the existence of the State of Israel

Some Zionists are bigots. Some are obviously racist. Some are up to their necks in dark dealings, and the relationship between some zionists and power in the US is both unhealthy and dangerous fro democracy

But NOT all!

It may even be that MOST Zionists are peaceful people who just want Peace with neighbouring countries, but are no more able to bring the actions of their government under control of hard-liners to heel than we in the UK are able to get our government to bring troops back from Iraq and Afghanistan

Now it may be that Stelios feels Israel should not exist and the state of Israel should be destroyed, returning all that land to the arab peoples

If so: HE SHOULD SAY SO

Because otherwise: what single productive idea does he have for resolving the issues and bringing Peace and Justice to the Palestinians who have suffered so much?

And what does it say about Stelios if he is prepared to be so.... "Zionist"?

Why that he is just like what he hates of course

That's why hate is never an answer

Unless of course one is a twisted and evil heartless and powermad fascist

Then the irrational hate of others is always useful, because you can use it to keep yourself in power by saying "these people hate us! This is why we must be strong and show them no mercy"

On that basis, blanket hatred of anyone on who the label "zionist" can be attached is the "Evil zionists" very best friend

That's a bit advanced for Stelios no doubt, but it doesn't change it from being true, and that's what is hidden when lots of shit is spouted about Zionism on a conspiracy forum

runciter
27-10-2008, 10:39 AM
But I ALSO abhor your blind hatred, and the way "Zionism" is thrown around as another word for "evil" around all these conspiracy forums by paranoid idiots. Say Boo! to em? Zionist Shill! Any perceived evil in the world? "Zionists did it Zionists did it Zionists did it! And that is simple stupidity

Zionism, to answer Zarah's question, is nothing more than a political movement supporting the existence of the State of Israel


to me zionism means racism, supremacism and warmongering.

israel is a racist and warmongering state, because of zionism.

bryan
27-10-2008, 12:01 PM
And I'd agree that Icke walks a careful balance in his written work whenever he discusses Zionism or Judaism, and in my view has always done so successfully

This is what David Icke had to say on this topic:The ADL dubbed me "anti-Jewish" which anyone reading my books or hearing my talks will know to be the ultimate fantasy.

Returning to the topic, which is the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism, why would the ADL dub David Icke 'anti-Jewish', when he was walking a careful balance in his discussion of Zionism and Judaism?

mynameis
27-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Returning to the topic, which is the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism, why would the ADL dub David Icke 'anti-Jewish', when he was walking a careful balance in his discussion of Zionism and Judaism?

It maybe forum users misquoting and taking Icke way out of context that probably started this stuff.

runciter
27-10-2008, 12:14 PM
It maybe forum users misquoting and taking Icke way out of context that probably started this stuff.

can you give an example of what you're stating?

john white
27-10-2008, 12:52 PM
It maybe forum users misquoting and taking Icke way out of context that probably started this stuff.

Well actually no, thats not the case, this predates any Icke forum by quite some time

If anyone watches the Jon Ronson documentary "The Lizards and the Jews" from the 90's its very clear the ADL's position as outlined in that film was that whenever Icke said "Lizards" he meant "jews" hence he was being antisemtic.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2912878405399014351

Before that (the emergence of the Reptilian Theory) Icke was called Anti-Semitic for referencing the protocols in his books (Which he first did in "Robots Rebellion) although Icke purposefully renamed them "The illuminiati protocols" back then to make it clear he did not consider the protocols to be the work of Jews or referring to a conspiracy of Jews

Partly the problem is that the ADL is a suspicious organisation at best . Even its well meaning members are likely to take anything that is similar to a threat and call it a threat. And other members of the ADL are certainly using labels such as "hate speech" and "hate laws" to suppress any MSM criticism of Israeli policies. With good reason of course, Israel has pursued illegal war and illegal policies, however that is self-rationalised... so the ADL certainly exceeds its own mandate and supresses free speech for political gain. There is a vast amount of money involved as well

And its clear that even if Icke had only continued to use the protocols to define an Illuminati blueprint, he would still be called anti-semitic to this day on the back of that

However, in some other ways Icke has not helped himself either

Partly because not all of his sources are as clear and impartial as others. Partly because the agenda and motivation of some people who get linked on Icke's headlines page regarding Zionism are certainly questionable and in the interests of "its just information make of it what you will" stuff that certainly is classic "hate speech" is only a link or two away. Partly because just as the ADL think "lizards" is a code for "Jews", so do far right groups, who attach themselves to Icke's work like parasites and even hang around on his web forum, despite them being the ideological antithesis of what Icke is actually trying to communicate about tolerance, transcending division and understanding we are one, and about the ultimate solution being based on Love, not Hate, and in consciousness terms, these parasites are living in the fucking sewer

But I don't see any solution to those problems other than for those who actually understand to keep putting out their understanding

Whenever imbalance is put out, others mirror that imbalance in the tragic game of human duality until all of us can help ourselves become better

That is the real battle being fought here: the battle, essentially, to redeem our own souls

john white
27-10-2008, 12:58 PM
Returning to the topic, which is the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism, why would the ADL dub David Icke 'anti-Jewish', when he was walking a careful balance in his discussion of Zionism and Judaism?

I believe I've covered that in my post above

If you really don't know the difference I'll clarify it again

Anti-Semite: Against someone because they are genetically "Jewish" and/or practise the Jewish Religion

Anti-Zionist: Against someone because they support the existence of the State of Israel

Therefore not all Zionists are "Jews", in fact many are "Christians"

runciter
27-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Partly because not all of his sources are as clear and impartial as others. Partly because the agenda and motivation of some people who get linked on Icke's headlines page regarding Zionism are certainly questionable and in the interests of "its just information make of it what you will" stuff that certainly is classic "hate speech" is only a link or two away.


can you please give some examples?


Partly because just as the ADL think "lizards" is a code for "Jews", so do far right groups, who attach themselves to Icke's work like parasites and even hang around on his web forum, despite them being the ideological antithesis of what Icke is actually trying to communicate about tolerance, transcending division and understanding we are one, and about the ultimate solution being based on Love, not Hate, and in consciousness terms, these parasites are living in the fucking sewer


can you please give some examples?

runciter
27-10-2008, 01:01 PM
Anti-Semite: Against someone because they are genetically "Jewish" and/or practise the Jewish Religion


what does "semite" mean?


Anti-Zionist: Against someone because they support the existence of the State of Israel


against the psychopathic warmongers, not against israel.

john white
27-10-2008, 01:19 PM
what does "semite" mean?



against the psychopathic warmongers, not against israel.

Well this is why words are power

"Anti-semite" should, strictly, mean those who are prejudiced against arabs and jews since it more truly means those who are prejudiced against the semite people: But it does not mean that in how it is understood. That's the force of history at work

Again, Anti-Zionist Does mean those who are against the State of Israel's existance, becuase the very basis for the existance of Israel as a State is 100% Zionism. There is very little profit in refuting that. what you mean is when YOU say "I am against Zionism" you are against the actions of those running the israeli state, not those who favour the existance of the israeli state. But its not going to build bridges of understanding when thats not how it's understood

It is better to say you oppose the actions of the current Israeli government and leave the term "zionist" right out of it unless you DO believe Israel as a state should cease to exist

john white
27-10-2008, 01:20 PM
can you please give some examples?



can you please give some examples?

Can you please do some research? I shouldn't think its too demanding

runciter
27-10-2008, 01:24 PM
"Anti-semite" should, strictly, mean those who are prejudiced against arabs and jews since it more truly means those who are prejudiced against the semite people: But it does not mean that in how it is understood. That's the force of history at work


we can change all this, using words for what they mean.


Again, Anti-Zionist Does mean those who are against the State of Israel's existance, becuase the very basis for the existance of Israel as a State is 100% Zionism. There is very little profit in refuting that. what you mean is when YOU say "I am against Zionism" you are against the actions of those running the israeli state, not those who favour the existance of the israeli state. But its not going to build bridges of understanding when thats not how it's understood

It is better to say you oppose the actions of the current Israeli government and leave the term "zionist" right out of it unless you DO believe Israel as a state should cease to exist


i'm an anti-zionist, i oppose the sabbatean frankist mafia.

runciter
27-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Can you please do some research? I shouldn't think its too demanding

i like this forum and i like icke's headlines, i have no reason to be critical.

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Kasalt posted this link pages ago.


One of those "Divine Truths" from the TALMUD is the holy KOL NIDRE OATH (All Vows Prayer). It is recited thrice by the synagogue congregation as prologue to YOM KIPPUR rites,(The Day of Atonement) "The Highest of Holy Days". It has also been set to music by Felix Mendlessohn, JEW (Marrano - Sephardic). Most Christians, including the clergy, believe the KOL NIDRE OATH is a profound vow to God. In FACT the TALMUD demands that very JEWe must break in advance all oaths and sworn declarations a JEW might make to a Gentile during the ensuing year:
"My promises shall not bind...my vows shall not be reckoned vows...nor my oath oaths...every vow which I make in the future shall be NUL from this Day of Atonement until the next." TALMUD: Kol Nidre Oath.



The TALMUD is the very foundation of JEWISH life. It is taught to JEWISH children as soon as they are old enough to read. RABBI MORRIS KERTZER, American JEWISH Committee.

The TORAH, then, was created to inspire and control a "stiff necked", defeated people; while the TALMUD was a pragmatic interpretation of that MYTH. High-placed Pharisees and priests, profoundly aware of the Jehovah HOAX, also understood that TORAH/TALMUDISM not only supported their life-styles, but was the glue that held together the Hebrew nation.

http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_i...Protocols.html (http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Torah_Talmud_Protocols.html)

I'd like to add Yaweh is Jehovah take away the vowels and what are you left with JHVH, I read somewhere that vowels where added or removed as a code to the Priesthoods, so the profane wouldn't know the meanings of coded words or was it something else?
EDIT it may have been becasue the Elite Priests of different religions follow the same mytsery ancient religions but the profane/masses themselevs would think they where following different religions, nothing changes really. If this doesn't apply to Jehova and Yahweh it does to other religions some say.

stelios
27-10-2008, 04:48 PM
It may even be that MOST Zionists are peaceful people who just want Peace...

I dont need to comment, your words betray you.
May God forgive you.

john white
27-10-2008, 05:36 PM
I dont need to comment, your words betray you.
May God forgive you.

My conscience is clean, and you sell yourself short part quoting me, complete and deal with the full sentence Stelios: I'm sure your not a coward

It may even be that MOST Zionists are peaceful people who just want Peace with neighbouring countries, but are no more able to bring the actions of their government under control of hard-liners to heel than we in the UK are able to get our government to bring troops back from Iraq and Afghanistan

Unless you want to tell me that the majority of Israeli's (IE: Zionists by the fact they Live there) want War and to kill all Arab's in an orgy of blood?

The stupidity lies in those who cant see past the labels

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 05:39 PM
Kasalt posted this link pages ago.


One of those "Divine Truths" from the TALMUD is the holy KOL NIDRE OATH (All Vows Prayer). It is recited thrice by the synagogue congregation as prologue to YOM KIPPUR rites,(The Day of Atonement) "The Highest of Holy Days". It has also been set to music by Felix Mendlessohn, JEW (Marrano - Sephardic). Most Christians, including the clergy, believe the KOL NIDRE OATH is a profound vow to God. In FACT the TALMUD demands that very JEWe must break in advance all oaths and sworn declarations a JEW might make to a Gentile during the ensuing year:
"My promises shall not bind...my vows shall not be reckoned vows...nor my oath oaths...every vow which I make in the future shall be NUL from this Day of Atonement until the next." TALMUD: Kol Nidre Oath.



The TALMUD is the very foundation of JEWISH life. It is taught to JEWISH children as soon as they are old enough to read. RABBI MORRIS KERTZER, American JEWISH Committee.

The TORAH, then, was created to inspire and control a "stiff necked", defeated people; while the TALMUD was a pragmatic interpretation of that MYTH. High-placed Pharisees and priests, profoundly aware of the Jehovah HOAX, also understood that TORAH/TALMUDISM not only supported their life-styles, but was the glue that held together the Hebrew nation.

http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_i...Protocols.html (http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Torah_Talmud_Protocols.html)

I'd like to add Yaweh is Jehovah take away the vowels and what are you left with JHVH, I read somewhere that vowels where added or removed as a code to the Priesthoods, so the profane wouldn't know the meanings of coded words or was it something else?
EDIT it may have been becasue the Elite Priests of different religions follow the same mytsery ancient religions but the profane/masses themselevs would think they where following different religions, nothing changes really. If this doesn't apply to Jehova and Yahweh it does to other religions some say.


For the Record: The Talmudic Traditions contradict or Contravene many of the Laws of YHWH found in the Torah. The Talmud has created vast schisms amongst the Hebrews themselves, example:

http://www.karaite-korner.org/history.shtml

http://www.karaite-korner.org/declaration_of_faith.shtml

You present a Biased opinion of a Rabbi, which is refuted by every scripture.

Even though you have crafted more than 8,000 Posts concerning the Bible, you, yourself, have recently admitted you have never read the Bible and prefer to be informed by Rabid Bigots, such as yourself.

Of what merit do you perceive your opinion is worth since you have not performed a neccessary and fundamental prerequisite of discussing this most important subject.

Are you aware one of the Great Sages, a Hebrew, declared: "First to the Hebrew, then to the Greek" Try to understand that es.

You declare the Hebrews recieved the Torah whilst defeated. This is absurd. YHWH had just Liberated the Yahdaim from Egypt. Egypt had just recieved the biggest ass-whipping in their long History. The Yahdaim were not defeated, what compels you to put forth such inaccuracies. It is 180 degrees from the Truth.

I'll let you in on some little known info es, the Egyptian Priests had turned Snakes into Staffs, YHWH changed a Staff into a snake. Big difference.

The Etymology of YHWHs Name is well settled and your ignorant musings only serve to confuse those who are as yet uninformed.

Evidence: First Link

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=448015&postcount=472

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=459940&postcount=592

The Torah predates the Talmud by many Centuries.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382711&postcount=1

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382714&postcount=2

es, why the thousands of lies about YHWH, the Hebrews and the Bible in general. What exactly are you attempting to accomplish.

Can you make your Case honestly from a Factual Position?

I think not.

May I ardently suggest you read the PDFs about the Divine Council so that you may have a more accurate understanding about YHWH~A 'Species Unique'

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

And linking to the Protocols of Zion yet again? From a Rabid Bigots website?

The other day you provided a Link that with two clicks led to a Neo-Nazi. Whats up with that?

You think you are pretty sly, don't you.

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 05:51 PM
I have Posted the most plausible solution to the Conundrum between the warring factions of Semites several times, as usual it recieved scant interest, yet it remains the most plausible. I will try to Post again in this Thread Later.

For now, examine this:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=390589&postcount=11

This requires attention, as what we are dealing with has numerous unique facets not found in other conflicts. There is an actual Legal Contract which requires 'Service'; 'Due-Diligence'; by those who are Contractually Obligated.

Just as in our own lives, if we voluntarily enter into a contract, we are obligated to fullfill our end of the agreement.

The 'Contract' between YHWH and the Yahdaim is not secret. :eek:

Any human with a Bible may read it for themselves. You see that es, you have to read it for yourself to begin to understand what is going on.

kasalt
27-10-2008, 06:29 PM
It would be really excellent to hear your explanation of why you believe Zionism predates Popery, instead of you just saying so? Is it because Judaism predates Catholicism?

In answer to your question, here are a couple of pertinent quotes from the Old Testament book of Isaiah, which was written as far back as the 8th century before Christ: Isaiah 2.2, 3b:
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it...For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

Isaiah 34.8:
"For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 06:40 PM
http://awakeozion.wordpress.com/2007/03/10/modern-day-sanhedren-to-revive-sacrifices-on-passover-eve/

Modern Day Sanhedren Scheduled To Perform Sacrifice on Passover Eve

Yep. You read right. The thing everybody’s been watching for - sacrifices resuming on the Temple mount - is scheduled to happen this Passover in Jerusalem.Of course, ‘scheduled to happen’ doesn’t equal ‘done deal’ status

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 06:45 PM
In answer to your question, here are a couple of pertinent quotes from the Old Testament book of Isaiah, which was written as far back as the 8th century, B.C. :
Isaiah 2.2, 3b:
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it...For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

Isaiah 34:8
"For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."



John White and Kasalt are correct when they urge us to render the word 'Zion' and 'Semite' in its' correct Context and defined accurately. This way, it will illuminate how others usurp a 'word' or 'phrase'. Mis-define it, and/or use it out of Context to support their own, usually Nefarious, Agenda.


The word 'Zion' appears more than 100 times in the OT. First Citation is:

2 Samuel 5:7 the last Citation in the OT is Zecharyah 9:13

Strongs Hebrew Dictionary Word #6726, root~6725

6726= A mountain of Jerusalem, as a permanent capital.

6725= a monumental or guiding Pillar


Humankind has been Blessed by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

A Treasure far beyond the value of gold or silver. Amongst these Scrolls is a very complete Book of Isayah, I believe from circa: 100 BCE

an excerpt:



7. (Chapter 2:1) The word which Isaiah the son of Amots envisioned about Judah and Jerusalem. (2) And it shall be
8. in the last days that the mountain of the house of YHWH shall be established in the top of the mountains and shall be lifted up
9. above the hills and all nations shall flow into it. (3) And many people shall come and shall say
10. Come, let us go up [.....] to the house of the God of Jacob and He will instruct us in his ways and we will walk in his paths,
11. because the Torah shall go out from Zion, the word of YHWH from Jerusalem (4) and He will judge among the nations
12. and he will cause rebuke [+among+] many peoples and they shall beat [+eth+] their swords to plows and their spears to
13. scythes, and nation shall not lift up sword against nation, and they will not learn war anymore.
14 (5) O come house of Jacob and we will walk in the light of YHWH (6) Because you have abandoned your people, the house of Jacob
15. because they are filled with eastern ways and conjure like the Philistines and they applaud the children of strangers.
16. (7) Their land is full of silver and gold and there is no end to their wealth, also their land is full of horses
17. and there is no end to their chariots. (8) And their land is full of idols, the work of their hands, they worship that which
18. their own fingers have made (9) and humanity bows down and man.is abased [...Q omits the last 3 words of vs 9 and all of vs 10...] (11) The haughty eyes of man
19. shall [+be made to+] fall down and the highness of men shall be abased and YHWH only shall be exalted in that day
20. (12) Because the day of YHWH of Hosts shall be on all the proud and mighty and exalted and they shall be brought down (13) And on all the cedars
21. of Lebanon, the mighty and the exalted and on all the oaks of Bashan. (14) and on all the mountains of
22. [{ mighti**]ness and on all the exalted hills. (15) and upon every strong tower and upon
23. [{every walled f**]ortress (16) and on all the ships of Tarshish and on every desirable craft. (17) And shall be brought low
24. [{the haughtiness of**] man and the highness of men shall be brought down and YHWH only shall be exalted in that day.
25. (18) [{And the ido**]ls shall be completely abolished. (19) and they shall go into rock caves and into caverns of dust from the presence of
26. [{the fear of YH]**WH and from His glorious majesty when He arises to terrify the earth.(PP)

27. (20) [{In that day**] shall humanity cast away the idols of silver and the idols of gold which
28. [{they made for themselves**] [with their fingers] to worship to the moles and to the bats. (21) to go into the crevices
29. [{of the rocks and into the high**] parts of the crags from the presence of the fear of YHWH and from the glory of his majesty


Links:
http://www.ao.net/%7Efmoeller/qa-tran.htm

http://www.ao.net/%7Efmoeller/qumdir.htm




the wayz I seez it iz: 'There are the Ways of YHWH, and the Matters of Men, rarely do they reconcile'.


An Esoteric Problem requires an Esoteric Solution

This is why the UN and all other parties fail to achieve any True, Lasting Peace.

Too much BS, Featherbedding and Secular Agendas

yet many of us have the 'Play Book', we may become informed of the Prerequisites regarding inhabitation of this particular Land. Yet we ignore them.

and es: Notice Line 11

It declares: 'The Torah will go out from Zion..', not the Talmud.

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 06:48 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/ursamajor/sacrifice.html

Though the usual assumptions are that Yahwehism, or archaic Judaism, was free of human sacrifice the evidence in the Bible refutes that belief. A careful reading of the text - despite all of the editing by the priestly caste which was done before the text became "Holy" and fixed - shows a lot of nasty material which the devout manage to read without seeing. Those who have eyes, let them read!

ironwand
27-10-2008, 07:38 PM
The term "anti-Semitic" was first seen in print as long ago as 1860.

It was coined by the Austrian biographer, Moritz Steinschneider.

The word "racist" was first seen in the 1930 work "The History of the Russian Revolution".

It was invented by the mass-murdering Russian Bolshevik, Leon Trotsky. The 1934 work "RACISM", by the homosexual German "sexologist", Magnus Hirschfeld, popularised this word.

Hirschfeld's book was first published in English in 1938 by Victor Gollancz.

Trotsky, Hirschfeld, Gollancz and Steinschneider were all Jewish.

Bogey words like "racist" and anti-Semitic were invented by Jews to prevent the Jew being criticised.

If you want to know why it's not anti-Semitic to legitimately criticise the Jew, well, here's an example:

In twelve articles published by various mainstream British newspapers between the 21st and 27th of October, concerned with the Mandelson, Osborne, Deripaska connection:

Anton Malevsky was a gangster and the Oligarch, Boris Berezovsky, was once described by Forbes Magazine as the Head of the Russian Mafia. The Oligarch, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, is still in jail and the Oligarchs Roman Abramovich and Mikhail Cherney are also suspected of being involved in some very heavy duty behaviour.

All of the above are Jewish.

As is Deripaska, as was the father of Peter Mandelson.

Mayer, Nathan, Serena, Victoria, Jacob and Nat Rothschild, Rupert Murdoch, David and Simon Reuben, Frank Lowy; Andrew Feldman; Matthew Freud; Ben Silverman, Billy Joel and Ken Livingstone, most of whom are connected to the scandal in some way and were mentioned in the articles, are also Jewish.

Some say that the Rothschilds financed both sides of every major war since Napoleonic times.

Which, if true, isn't all that nice either.

If you want to pick through the "mainstream" articles in question, check out this link:

http://www.iamanenglishman.com/page.php?page=1&iCategoryId=1128&iParentId=1097

mynameis
27-10-2008, 07:40 PM
http://www.iamanenglishman.com/page.php?page=1&iCategoryId=1128&iParentId=1097

Oh boy another 2-clicker...for my ignore list.

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 08:01 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/ursamajor/sacrifice.html

Though the usual assumptions are that Yahwehism, or archaic Judaism, was free of human sacrifice the evidence in the Bible refutes that belief. A careful reading of the text - despite all of the editing by the priestly caste which was done before the text became "Holy" and fixed - shows a lot of nasty material which the devout manage to read without seeing. Those who have eyes, let them read!


So Self-Discipline and Self-Restraint are negative qualities for a human to exercise,ES?

Notice Ursamajor does not present their name or credentials. Compare their research to what I have provided and angelfire would be laughable if they were not deranged.

You, yourself should examine the quality of their product before you 'share' it with others.

Your 10,000 Posts are 10,000 Turds in the Punchbowl of this Forum. :D

Look at angelfires idea of 'The Chosen People'

The ones who win Divine favor are those who live as humans are meant to live. The Humanists, the atheists, the deniers of religion and its barbaric effects. Now go take on the day.

so safe to say our anonymous authors are a 'touch' biased. And like you, not sufficiently motivated to research actual historical documents, rather rely on suppositions, grossly mis-interpreted words and contextual extractions.

here are the Links to the entire website ES did not provide. Check out ursamajor:

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/ursamajor/chosen.html

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/ursamajor/index.html

As counterpoint to angelfire-urssamajors ludicrous and hateful claims, examine this excerpt.

http://www.jewfaq.org/origins.htm


Isaac

Isaac was the subject of the tenth and most difficult test of Abraham's faith: G-d commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. (Gen 22). This test is known in Jewish tradition as the Akeidah (the Binding, a reference to the fact that Isaac was bound on the altar).

But this test is also an extraordinary demonstration of Isaac's own faith, because according to Jewish tradition, Isaac knew that he was to be sacrificed, yet he did not resist, and was united with his father in dedication.

At the last moment, G-d sent an angel to stop the sacrifice. It is interesting to note that child sacrifice was a common practice in the region at the time. Thus, to people of the time, the surprising thing about this story is not the fact that G-d asked Abraham to sacrifice his child, but that G-d stopped him!

Judaism uses this story as evidence that G-d abhors human sacrifice. In fact, I have seen some sources indicating that Abraham failed this test of faith because he did not refuse to sacrifice his son! Judaism has always strongly opposed the practice of human sacrifice, commonplace in many other cultures at that time and place.

I had actually created a THread titled Judaism 101, so that forum members unfamiliar with Judaism could learn basic fundamental information about who they are and what they think.

Two Rabid Bigots polluted the Thread to such an extant I abandoned it.

Again ES, I implore you to exercise some Self-Discipline and Self-Restraint

and don't think for a minute you are a Barbarian, I'm from a long line of Berserkers, and we aren't lazy. you're lazy.


ES; discipline your integrity.


get some quality materiel, like this:

you wanna read it, you know you do.

Look!!! the author includes their name and credentials, and footnotes and bibliographys! Gasp!!!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

ES: Quality, not Quantity; is the Hallmark of a Scholar!


Your welcome in advance

stelios
27-10-2008, 08:05 PM
My conscience is clean, and you sell yourself short part quoting me, complete and deal with the full sentence Stelios: I'm sure your not a coward
I dont think you understand really what ZIONISM is and all that it entails.
It is a racist political system which has at it's core the view that one group of human is superior to every other group of human.
And that the superior group should hold dominion over all others who are as mere servants to the elite.
Zionists are in control in Britain, America and a number of other countries including as was made obvious recently Georgia.
Israel is only a part of this empire.

Are you telling me honestly that you consider one group of humans to be above all others?
Ofcourse you dont.
Indeed you are not a part of that group.
However, the mistake your lack of understanding makes is that this group, which holds dominion over us and sees you and i as cattle, want total control and have simply no regard for human rights or equality.
Yes they want never ending wars.
Yes they do want death and destruction.
Most of them have never even set foot in Israel.

The population of Israel is made up of several groups as well as zionists. Sephardic Jews, Christain Arabs, Muslim Arabs, Palestinians, Druze, and others including Ethiopeans, etc. But even in Israel they are controlled by a zionist elite. Most of these groups have no rights or very little rights. Some are not allowed to own homes others are consigned to spend their lives cleaning toilets and sweeping the roads.
This is what Apartheid is in reality.
The house negro and the field negro.
Maybe you dont understand these concepts John living out in the sticks smoking your herbs.
Then you have the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, these are fifth class citizens of Israel with even less rights than the Sephardics, the Falashas and the others.

Everyone who supports zionism is inherently evil. There is no such thing as a good zionist. Jews are victims of zionism as well as the rest of us. Sephardic Jews were subjected to forced experiments in the 1950s which left alot of them infertile and dying of cancer and tumours.
As you know i have spoken at length about the plight of the 'Ringworm Children' before.

The stupidity lies in those who cant see past the labels
It is you who is stupid. You cannot call a spade a spade.
And you refuse to blame those who are guilty.
I have argued with you at length before because you blindly refuse to yield to the overwhelming weight of evidence that proves that 9/11 and 7/7 were carried out by zionists.
And you slavishly refuse to listen to all the evidence which proves zionism and it's adherents as being evil, racist and cruel.

I however, hereby condemn ALL zionists unreservedly.
My solution is simple - All men, women, children are equal.
No ifs and no buts.


Here is your zionist utopia in practice.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YERmru1OCSg
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNMDjj5LKc

kasalt
27-10-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm not trying to speak for ES, but I'd like to interject an observation or two here...

For the Record: The Talmudic Traditions contradict or Contravene many of the Laws of YHWH found in the Torah. The Talmud has created vast schisms amongst the Hebrews themselves, example:

http://www.karaite-korner.org/history.shtml

http://www.karaite-korner.org/declaration_of_faith.shtml

You present a Biased opinion of a Rabbi, which is refuted by every scripture.

The only problem with that is that the Karaites are an extremely minuscule percentage of the total Jewish population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism#Karaites_today

If you believe that Karaite Judaism is representative of Judaism as it was originally intended, then you must object to Talmudic Judaism. Yet I have searched your posts and I have found precious little analysis from you when it comes to exposing the falsity of the Talmud, as opposed to the Torah. Take this post, for example:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=502565&highlight=talmud#post502565

All I have seen you do thus far is dismiss the Talmud in totally non-specific terms. You seem disinclined to get into any of the specifics of the Talmud. But if you refuse to quote directly from the Talmud and refute its statements, how can you challenge its perceived authority?


As for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it is well proven to be PLAGIRISM from a Literary Work. I informed you of this just a coupla days ago, for the umpteenth time, so why do you persist in putting forth the LIE that it is the 'Secret' Plot of Jews to enslave humanity?

Putting aside for the moment the arguement over whether the Protocols are a forgery, so far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Protocols which contradicts the basic aims or philosophy that is found in the Talmud--or even in the Torah, for that matter. Correct me on this point if you think it is wrong.

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 08:50 PM
quote:stelios
Zionists are in control in Britain, America and a number of other countries including as was made obvious recently Georgia.
Israel is only a part of this empire.


...........................................


Mr Deripaska, who made his fortune in aluminium, is often described as Russia's richest man and is a close business associate of Nathaniel Rothschild, who is a friend of Lord Mandelson.


..............................................

Found the part above interesting. The left overs from the aluminium industry think I read somewhere are used as a source of fluoride in toothpaste and in the water. Also aluminium oxide another bi product is what's used in chemtrails. Can anyone verify this? That's a lot of business and money made.

And they're likely all Zionists which created Communism. You'll find the Russian Oligarchs are mostly if not all Zionists.

"City of London", this is a code word for the Rothschild's

The "Crown of England" it is well documented that the Rothschilds scooped up the entire British economy (currency and bonds) for pennies..... when they falsely reported that the British had lost at waterloo, and Napoleon had won.

I think that was a major turning point in British history. On the surface things appeared the same, but they were not.

The Crown took back seat to the professional moneylender, war profiteers, etc.

So did the U.S. govt in 1913

A good place to start would be to arrest the Rothschilds for war crimes, then you go after the Schiffs, Warburgs, Oppenheimers, Rockefellers, and a few others.

but the Rothschild estate is valued at 2-4 hundred trillion, I honestly do not think you will ever find a bigger fish on this planet.

Positioned on the north bank of the Thames River, covering an area of 677 acres or one square mile (known as the "wealthiest square mile on earth"), it has enjoyed special rights and privileges that enabled them to achieve a certain level of independence since 1191. In 1215, its citizens received a Charter from King John, granting them the right to annually elect a mayor (known as the Lord Mayor), a tradition that continues today.

Both E. C. Knuth, in his book Empire of the City, and Des Griffin, in his book Descent into Slavery, stated their belief that 'The City' is actually a sovereign state (much like the Vatican), and that since the establishment of the privately owned Bank of England in 1694, 'The City' has actually become the last word in the country's national affairs, with Prime Minister, Cabinet, and Parliament becoming only a front for the real power. According to Knuth, when the queen enters 'The City,' she is subservient to the Lord Mayor (under him, is a committee of 12-14 men, known as 'The Crown'), because this privately-owned corporation is not subject to the Queen, or the Parliament.

There seems to be little doubt that the Rothschilds continue to influence the world economy, and it is known that they are squarely behind the movement to unite all the western European nations into a single political entity, which is just another step towards one-world government.

more here

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=840

The Jew Watch Project Is The Internet's Largest Scholarly Collection of Articles on Zionist History
Free Educational Library for Private Study, Scholarship, Research & News About Zionism
We Reveal Zionist Banksters, News Falsifiers, PR Liars, Neocons, Subversives, Terrorists, Spies & More
The Jew Watch Project's 1.5 Billion Pages Served Demonstrate Our Focus on ProfessionalismAn Oasis of News for Americans Who Presently Endure the Hateful Censorship of Zionist Occupation

http://www.jewwatch.com/gif-trotsky-with-text.JPG




USSR, 1920-1990 (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html)
C.I.S., 1990-Present (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-CIS.html)
Israel (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-israel.html)
United States (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-usa.html)
Austria (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-austria.html)
Palestine (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-genocide-palestinian.html)[/URL]



[URL="http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-germany.html"]Germany (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-austria.html)
United Kingdom (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-uk.html)
Australia (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-australia.html)
France

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-folder.html

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 08:52 PM
Woodrow Wilson And The Federal Reserve In 1 913
Isaac Kuhn and The Rothschilds were behind the formation of the Federal Reserve. (http://judicial-inc.biz/Fed_res_main.htm)This gave the Zionist banking housing control over America.
http://judicial-inc.biz/88hist7.jpg

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 08:53 PM
Jewish Founded Orgs. (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-folder.html)
N.O.W., (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-NOW.html) NAACP, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-NAACP.html) Southern Poverty Law Center, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-splc.html) JDL, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-JDL.html) ADL, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-ADL.html) ACLU, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-ACLU.html) AIPAC-American Israeli Political Action, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-AIPAC.html) B'nai B'rith, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-bnaibrith.html) American Nazi Party, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-hatehoaxes-american-nazis.html) Committee-The Jewish Lobby, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-AIPAC.html) World Zionist Organization, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-WZO.html) Jewish Bund, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-jewishbund.html)Simon Wiesenthal Center, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-wiesenthal.html) SDS, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-usa-sds.html) Penetration of White European Movements, (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-organizations-penetration-white-european-orgs.html) Church of the World Creator (COTC), (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-hatehoaxes-american-nazis.html)

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 09:04 PM
I'm not trying to speak for ES, but I'd like to interject an observation or two here...



The only problem with that is that the Karaites are an extremely minuscule percentage of the total Jewish population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism#Karaites_today

If you believe that Karaite Judaism is representative of Judaism as it was originally intended, then you must object to Talmudic Judaism. Yet I have searched your posts and I have found precious little analysis from you when it comes to exposing the falsity of the Talmud, as opposed to the Torah. Take this post, for example:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=502565&highlight=talmud#post502565

All I have seen you do thus far is dismiss the Talmud in totally non-specific terms. You seem disinclined to get into any of the specifics of the Talmud. But if you refuse to quote directly from the Talmud and refute its statements, how can you challenge its perceived authority?



Putting aside for the moment the arguement over whether the Protocols are a forgery, so far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Protocols which contradicts the basic aims or philosophy that is found in the Talmud--or even in the Torah, for that matter. Correct me on this point if you think it is wrong.

From the very beginning in my BoYHWH Thread I Declared I eschew the Talmud AND the Kabalah. Reasons being: They are creations, opinions and suppositions of MEN, and not 'Received' Text.

I have many objections to the Talmud, and consider it a 'Wall' between the Hebrews and the Torah, thus YHWH. The Talmud is what the Prophets, Yahshua Messiah and the Apostles excoriated. I take it as a 'Given' the Talmud hurts more then it helps the Hebrews. Why they haven't realised this for more than 2,000 years, I can not say.

The Talmud conflicts often with the Torah, they, themselves should realise this and correct themselves. This is the Key Aspect of the Contract of Possession of this Land.

The Yahdaim(people of YHWH) MUST obey ALL the 613 Laws, Judgements and Statutes. PERIOD. FULLSTOP.

NO TALMUD. The rulers of Judea circa 20-40 CE murdered Yahshua for two primary reasons:

1: He was going all over the place and saying 'YHWH this and YHWH that', this was Talmudicly considered Blasphemous, Heretical and all the other stuff. I have presented mucho information about The Name.

2: He was excoriating the traditions of the Rabbis and the conflict Talmud creates with the Laws.

Scripture itself declares: YHWH considers the Traditions of men an abomination.


What I object to is ES penchant for extracting Rabbinacal musings OUT OF CONTEXT to mislead the uninformed, with the desired result of hatred for people.

Kasalt, as far as the Torah is concerned, this is the page of music ALL humankind will ultimately sing from.

YHWH is no respecter of persons. First to the Yahdai, then to the Greek. All Blood is the same.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95520&postcount=2

Ladies & Gentlemen:

Consider this: The Book of Yahweh is a large Book, even the book with just the Old Testament is indeed substantial, add the New Testament and it becomes rather daunting.

Yet it may be viewed as Six Essential Elements, and thus becomes more readily accessible.

#1. Father Yahweh, the Creator Being who is the Causal Force of this Universe and all Matter and Life within. The 'Force' of inspiration for the entire Book.

#2. The Torah, a Codex of Law that contains 613 Laws, Judgements and Statutes, which apply to all Human activity. Yahweh created these Laws and Lives by these Laws Himself. The Kingdom of Heaven is Governed by these Laws. The purpose of these Laws are to develop a
robust moral character. Throughout scripture, 'sin' is defined as transgression of the Law.
'Righteousness' is defined as obedience to the Law.

#3. The Malakim(messengers of Yahweh) a 'Race','Species' of Beings created by Yahweh before Humans.

#4. The Prophets & Prophecies which establish Timelines and Events

#5. Yahshua Messiah, the exemplar of Father Yahwehs Plan concerning Humankind and their relation to the Codex of Law, the Torah. He is the personification of a fully developed Human Utilising 100% of His Brain/Mind Capacity, due to His perfect obedience to the Codex of Law. He was 'Trusted' by Father Yahweh not to bring harm to Himself or others. At this time we are partially created beings with deliberate restraint of our Brain/Mind Utility. Thus all the problems.

#6. The Scriptures, these are the 'Vehicle' by which all instruction and lessons are delivered, containing the above notated 5 essential Elements.

No Talmud; What I presented was Yahwism. Yahwism has Messiah 'built in', so I don't even have to say Messianic Yahwism as Yahwism includes a Messiah. One.

I follow a Methodology, K.I.S.S. Keep it simple sweetie!

Many times I have Posted about Quality Conttrol, Benchmark and Baselines.

ALL the Prophets, Apostles and Yahshua Messiah declared, unambiguously, to Heed the Laws and the Prophets.

zarah
27-10-2008, 09:12 PM
Zionism, to answer Zarah's question, is nothing more than a political movement supporting the existence of the State of Israel

That's a dated definition in my opinion. I would go so far as to suggest it's support of the State of Israel existing either in its present form or further widening its borders. It certainly doesn't seem to be the support of the existence of an egalitarian and truly democratised Israel alongside Palestine.

Some Zionists are bigots. Some are obviously racist. Some are up to their necks in dark dealings, and the relationship between some zionists and power in the US is both unhealthy and dangerous fro democracy

But NOT all!

Is it possible to support the existence of Israel, which is a state which was built on land taken from the indeginous people, who were exiled from their country en mass in 1948, without international right of return, without being a bigot or racist? A bigot can be defined as a zealot, a segregationalist, a fanatic or an extremist. A racist is defined as one who believes their race to be superior. We're already aware that Jews believe themselves to be a race and not a faith, and are defined as such under English law. Israel also operates which could be defined as an apartheid state in the fact that there are three tiers of society depending on your ethinicity with Jews sitting pretty on top. Can we then argue that to be a supporter of a racist state is by virtue of affiliation also racist?

It may even be that MOST Zionists are peaceful people who just want Peace with neighbouring countries, but are no more able to bring the actions of their government under control of hard-liners to heel than we in the UK are able to get our government to bring troops back from Iraq and Afghanistan

I disagree. Israel is a power sharing state, and although progress in such nations can be slow, they tend to reflect the views of the population rather more than power hauling states such as ours.

I don't think anyone is suggesting there aren't Israelis who want peace with Palestine, but I would argue that they aren't Zionists.

It's also fact that Zionists aren't simply Jews or Israelis.

Now it may be that Stelios feels Israel should not exist and the state of Israel should be destroyed, returning all that land to the arab peoples

If so: HE SHOULD SAY SO

Why? What purpose would that have to this discussion?

Israel is a state which operates outside the confines of international law and ignore breaches of UN regulations at will. It ignores the fundamental principle that refugees or their descendents have the humanitarian right to return to their land.


On that basis, blanket hatred of anyone on who the label "zionist" can be attached is the "Evil zionists" very best friend

That's a bit advanced for Stelios no doubt, but it doesn't change it from being true, and that's what is hidden when lots of shit is spouted about Zionism on a conspiracy forum

Would you not call the actions of Israel against Palestinians 'evil'? If by your defintion a Zionist is one who supports 'the existence of the State of Israel', then is the label of 'evil' so far fetched?

I read your posts and think you're an extremely intelligent, thoughtful man who espouses his opinions with eloquence but I would suggest that Stelios is extremely passionate about the defence of Palestine, its people and promoting the vile agenda of Israel supporting Zionists.

ingram0009
27-10-2008, 09:15 PM
Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism...

You make it sound as if it's wrong to be an anti-semite.
Fact is there are more anti-semites in the world than semites.

So it's not as if semites are the center ground here.
'Anti-semite' makes it sound as if you are anti them.

When in fact they are anti-me.

kasalt
27-10-2008, 09:18 PM
From the very beginning in my BoYHWH Thread I Declared I eschew the Talmud AND the Kabalah. Reasons being: They are creations, opinions and suppositions of MEN, and not 'Received' Text...The Talmud conflicts often with the Torah, they, themselves should realise this and correct themselves. This is the Key Aspect of the Contract of Possession of this Land.

Yes I know that and I said so in my last post, but why do you never quote directly from the Talmud in order to refute it?


The Yahdaim(people of YHWH) MUST obey ALL the 613 Laws, Judgements and Statutes. PERIOD. FULLSTOP.

What are the 613 Laws?

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 09:27 PM
quote:snoopsnuffleopagus
What I object to is ES penchant for extracting Rabbinacal musings OUT OF CONTEXT to mislead the uninformed, with the desired result of hatred for people.

............................................

Most of what I post is straight from the Talmud and the words of Rabbis. You just can't handle the truth. The Talmud quotes speak for themselves - Racist and despicable hatred towards none Jews and Jews who don't obey the Rabbinical Laws.

mynameis
27-10-2008, 09:33 PM
You make it sound as if it's wrong to be an anti-semite.
Fact is there are more anti-semites in the world than semites.

So it's not as if semites are the center ground here.
'Anti-semite' makes it sound as if you are anti them.

When in fact they are anti-me.

:confused:

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 10:05 PM
Yes I know that and I said so in my last post, but why do you never quote directly from the Talmud in order to refute it?



Kasalt; I am not presenting Judaism, the refutation of the Talmud has very energetic workers, albeit, not of quality, but energetic. Stupid and Industrious are not desired qualities in a Labourer, the results are of mixed quality. And personaly, I value my time.

I have presented a more 'Roots' oriented 'Look' at the info. Utilising the most original sources, cross-referencing and so forth.

I have 'Waged Refutation' on any other belief system: Talmud, Kabalah, Astrology, Alchemy, Satanism, Humanism, Witchcraft, Paganism...etc.

coz frankly, I don't give a shit what anybody else is embracing. None of my personal business. If their Path isn't working, they'll realise it themselves.

And as my Archivist you MUST be aware that more than a year and a half ago, I Posted the solution to the ME conundrum, which encompassed what we all have been commiserating here in this Thread.

Since I am aware of what I Post, by the responses I receive, I sometimes think my words were invisible or altered.

I embrace a School of Thought that eschews everything except what is written in Scripture, which is for our common edification.

What are the 613 Laws?

They are enumerated in the Books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy primarily.
The quality of the Laws you read will reflect the quality of the translation you use. So far I have not seen a 'good' Torah Laws on-line that I could copy & paste. :( and I do not have a scanner.

One of the many reasons I enjoy the Book of YHWH from the House of YHWH is they 'culled' the Laws and present them together in the Back of the Book for easy reference. I esteem these 15 pages of Law more than the 2,000,000 pages of Laws in NY. :D

I would like to explore these Laws but with the certain interruptions, I do not have the time, neither am I a Teacher. I would like to think I may of been helpful to some few self-researchers.

At the end of the day, if it is to be considered I have been Preaching. I have 'said': Yo!! Dig; checkout YHWH, and restrain yourselves. Personally, I have never thought of it as a big deal, but it certainly has raised some rebuke.


How do you perceive mike heiser?

I think he mentioned something about TWO YHWHs :eek: One

Anthropomorphic and one 'zzzzzzzzzzzt' :eek:

Here is a potential solution to the conundrum in the ME:
http://www.yahweh.com/TemplePage/Temple.html


otherwise, those who are 'claiming' to be Yahdaim-People of YHWH, should leave the area if they will not observe and execute their Contractual Obligations to inhabit the Land.

Its' really not complex.

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 10:08 PM
quote:snoopsnuffleopagus
What I object to is ES penchant for extracting Rabbinacal musings OUT OF CONTEXT to mislead the uninformed, with the desired result of hatred for people.

............................................

Most of what I post is straight from the Talmud and the words of Rabbis. You just can't handle the truth. The Talmud quotes speak for themselves - Racist and despicable hatred towards none Jews and Jews who don't obey the Rabbinical Laws.


Cut the crap es. you extract rabbinical musings and present them as laws.

rabbinical laws are nothing. YHWHs Laws are everything. Can you see there is a difference. The brush you paint with is far too broad and you are deceitful. You are an excellent example of a human ignorant of the core subject, who has drawn his conclusions from down stream sources.

here is what you do:

The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

This is a rabbinical opinion that is not supported by any of YHWHs Laws, thus worthless.

The Torah is the Granitic Bedrock of Yahwism. PERIOD. FULLSTOP. Can you provide a survey of what percentage of Judaic Rabbis are in accord with this? You are misrepresenting. Damagedbrain pointed this out to you. Without the Torah, the Talmud is irrelevant. The Talmud is rabbinical musings of the Laws.

Here is one of your most odious misrepresentations. Jews can rape little gentile girls and it is perfectly OK. As the Torah forbids extramarital sex, and harming children.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=403529&postcount=8
Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Here is the Truth:
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

The Talmud Does Not Permit Sex With A Three Year Old


Written by Gil Student
The Accusation
Yebhamot 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."


The accusation here is quite nefarious. It implies that Judaism permits pedophilia, has no respect for women, and generally advocates loose sexual morals. To those familiar with the Talmud, this claim is patently ridiculous. However, the majority of people — particularly those making this claim — know little to nothing about the Talmud, its contents, or its methodology. On our website The Real Truth About The Talmud, we elaborate on these issues. However, for now, we will focus on the accusation at hand. It is, in fact, easily verified as being incorrect.

The Text
Talmud Ketuvot 11b (The citation mentioned is evidently in error. Talmud Yevamot 11b has no relevant passage)


Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: A male child who has relations with a female adult causes her to be like one who was injured with a stick... Rava said: This is what was meant - an adult male who has relations with a female child has not done anything because less than this [three years old] is like sticking a finger into an eyeball.


While those unused to these Talmudic discussions might be taken aback by the use of euphemisms, the discussion here relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. It has nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged. It is, indeed, ironic that this passage has been manipulated from its original context of a financial discussion into one of a religious discussion. While there are numerous talmudic passages of a religious nature, this one discusses dowries and not forbidden and permitted relations!

The Talmud relates that a virgin is entitled a higher dowry. While the tell-tale sign of virginity is the release of blood due to the breaking of the hymen on the wedding night, there are occasions when the hymen has already been broken such as when the woman suffered an injury. The Talmud here quotes Rav Yehuda in the name of Rav that a sexual act with a male minor is not considered to be a loss of virginity because one of the participants is not fully active. While the female's hymen may have been broken, she has not engaged in what can be classified as a sexual act (although it is certainly child abuse).

The Talmud continues and quotes Rava as saying that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is also not considered a loss of virginity (although it is child abuse). Since the girl is too young for her hymen to be broken, she is still considered a virgin.

Nowhere is the Talmud permitting such behavior. Sex outside of a marriage is strictly forbidden (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na'arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5) as is this obvious case of child abuse. The Talmud is only discussing ex post facto what would happen if such a case arose.

That non-marital sexual relations is prohibited is stated explicitly by Maimonides in the following passage from his ground-breaking legal code Mishneh Torah:

Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4

Whoever has licentious relations with a woman without marriage bonds is lashed by biblical mandate.


The claim that the Talmud, or normative Judaism, permits sexual relations with a minor is almost entirely incorrect. The slight truth in it is that, in certain societies in history, people were sometimes married as young as ten. While this was most recently done in Czarist Russia in order to avoid being drafted into the Czar's army (which was made especially difficult for Jews), it is not currently done. However, even in that case, marriage is required before having sexual relations. Judaism as a religion prohibits sexual relations, indeed even minor touching such as holding hands, outside of marriage.

It is certainly true that there are individual Jews who do not follow the teaching of the Talmud. That is their personal choice, just like many Catholics choose to use birth control and have premarital relations despite their religion's teaching against it. This does not mean that Catholicism permits premarital relations and it does not mean that Judaism (and the Talmud) does either. The personal choices of people whether to follow completely their religion does not reflect on what their religion teaches. Similarly, the fact that certain Muslims drink alcohol and frequent prostitutes does not mean that their religion permits it. It means that these individuals choose to defy their religion.

We leave it to others to deduce why some people would make baseless accusations against the Talmud and, by implication, Judaism and Jews

Explain yourself ES; why the misrepresentation?

I have asked you before. what is your solution?

Kasalt, what is your solution?

Stelios; what is your solution?

Anybody offer a solution?



Everyone should be aware, we can extract quotes, out of context, from members of any Ethnicity, and paint any picture we want of that Ethnicity. Positive or Negative.

As a Former Union Labourer; I am an ardent supporter of Equity and Parity for everyone.

MERITOCRACY.

kasalt
27-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Kasalt; I am not presenting Judaism

Is this not your thread:

Judaism 101
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35803

I noticed that in that thread, you pasted references to the Talmud which were of a positive--or at least neutral--nature, without any refutation. I would encourage you to start a thread of equal substance on the Talmud.

So far I have not seen a 'good' Torah Laws on-line that I could copy & paste.Here's a link to Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon's (aka Maimonides) list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot#Maimonides.27_list

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 10:39 PM
Cut the crap es. you extract rabbinical musings and present them as laws.

rabbinical laws are nothing. YHWHs Laws are everything. Can you see there is a difference. The brush you paint with is far too broad and you are deceitful. You are an excellent example of a human ignorant of the core subject, who has drawn his conclusions from down stream sources.

here is what you do:



This is a rabbinical opinion that is not supported by any of YHWHs Laws, thus worthless.

The Torah is the Granitic Bedrock of Yahwism. PERIOD. FULLSTOP. Can you provide a survey of what percentage of Judaic Rabbis are in accord with this? You are misrepresenting. Damagedbrain pointed this out to you. Without the Torah, the Talmud is irrelevant. The Talmud is rabbinical musings of the Laws.

Here is one of your most odious misrepresentations. Jews can rape little gentile girls and it is perfectly OK. As the Torah forbids extramarital sex, and harming children.


Here is the Truth:
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

Rabbinical Law nothing! I think you're having problems grasping reality. It was men who wrote all your religious books (so get over your illusions that it was anything to do with God) And what's in those books is the basis and LAW for your religion.

Tell that to the babies who are circumcised that's the Covenant with your so called God - A blood ritual!

There are many Jewish Lawyers

The "Institute of American and Talmudic Law" (see below) was co-founded by Nathan Lewin, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's close friend. Lewin is a member of the institute's faculty. Mr. Lewin is on record advocating the killing of the parents and siblings of Palestinian suicide bombers. Justice Scalia is a staunch supporter of the institute, which teaches American judges and lawyers how to apply rabbinic halacha to US courts.

Chief Justice of the New Jersey Supreme Court Lectures at Talmud Seminar (http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-jersey-supreme-court-justices-at.html)
(http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-jersey-supreme-court-justices-at.html) (http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-jersey-supreme-court-justices-at.html)

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 10:43 PM
Is this not your thread:

Judaism 101
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35803

I noticed that in that thread, you pasted references to the Talmud which were of a positive--or at least neutral--nature, without any refutation. I would encourage you to start a thread of equal substance on the Talmud.

Here's a link to Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon's (aka Maimonides) list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot#Maimonides.27_list

You're playin' with yourself, not me kasalt. I have been an 'Open Book', no hidden agenda, when I interact with someone it is straightforward.

I also Posted information about the Kabalah, am I to make a Thread disparaging the Kabalah also.

I do not have the time to disparage others. Many others on this Message Board are handling that aspect of life.

you for one.

now present your solution for this Semite conflict utilising all your hard gained wisdom. What do you suggest?

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 10:44 PM
The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic

If the Greeks had Gods such as Pan Lucifer Baphomet-Paganism

sinogogue of Satan

our High Priest,
Rev. Michael S. Margolin a Jew heads a cult the sinogogue of satan
The Mad Poet Acbhb
Frater Inferior
Baphomet Rex 666

http://www.sosatan.org/rex.jpg (http://www.sosatan.org/rex.jpg)

“The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black God, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry. For the Initiates, this is not a person, but a force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or free will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the light bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.”
- Albert Pike “Morals and Dogma“ Ancient and Accepted Rite of Free Masonry written and published in 1875.

Freemasonry has long praised the Cabala, and its top officials have admitted that the Lodge’s rituals and teachings are but the offspring of the Jewish tradition. Albert Pike, former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, wrote: "One is filled with admiration, on penetrating into the Sanctuary of the Cabala."
In 1855, the renowned Rabbi Isaac Wise wrote: "Freemasonry is a Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."
The Jewish Tribune newspaper, in 1927, in an editorial, stated: "Freemasonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?"

eternal_spirit
27-10-2008, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Harold Wallace Rosenthal, 29, a personal assistant to New York Senator
Jacob Javits felt that Jewish power was so unassailable that he could
make some extra cash by telling this story to Walter White Jr., the
editor of the Conservative monthly Western Front.

"Too many Jews do not have the guts to tell you how we live and plan,
but I am not intimated by anything or anyone," Rosenthal told White.

here are some quotes from the interview

Rosenthal says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

INSIGHTS

Rosenthal says the "Jews" have built an earthly empire partly by
rejecting Christ's vision of a spiritual kingdom based on brotherly
love. Jewish bankers plan to govern the world from Jerusalem according
to their own interests.

He says the Jewish religion is essentially a disguise for a racial
imperative. "We can live among other people and states [by] persuading
them that the Jews are not a "race" of people but the representatives of
a religious faith..."

"Through control of banking, the "Jews" acquired a total monopoly of
"the movie industry, the radio networks and the newly developing
television media...we took over the publication of all school
materials... Even your music! We censor the songs released for
publication long before they reach the publishers...we will have
complete control of your thinking."

He boasts that they even implanted a "guilt complex" over the Holocaust
and anti Semitism that prevents society from addressing the problem.

"We Jews have put issue upon issue to the American people. Then we
promote both sides of the issue as confusion reigns. With their eyes
fixed on the issues, they fail to see who is behind every scene. We Jews
toy with the American public as a cat toys with a mouse."

"History has been written in blood, not with ink. No letter, editorial
or book has ever rallied the people or stopped tyranny. We understand
this principle and are forever propagandizing the people to write
letters to the President, to Congress...Woe be unto us if they ever see
the futility of it, lay down the pen and employ the sword."

Rosenthal talks about how a "Jewish" invisible government also controls
the USSR, and how the UN is "nothing but a trap door to the Red World's
immense concentration camp." He says this invisible power is responsible
for the wars and revolutions of the last 200 years"

read the full interview here

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/...rview_1976.htm (http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/Harold_Wallace_Rosenthal_Interview_1976.htm)

kasalt
27-10-2008, 11:10 PM
I also Posted information about the Kabalah, am I to make a Thread disparaging the Kabalah also.

It would help. What good does it do for you to decry the Talmud or the Kabalah but refuse to provide documentation and analysis as to why?

I do not have the time to disparage others.I do not consider truth to be "disparaging".

now present your solution for this Semite conflict utilising all your hard gained wisdom. What do you suggest?My solution is very simple: that the Zionists refute the narcissistic claims of their belief system and view themselves as members of equal standing with the rest of the human race, rather than perceiving themselves to be the masters of it, as they apparently do if their own quotes are to be believed.

To quote John Lennon, in other words:

Instant Karma - John lennon - YouTube

snoopsnuffleopagus
27-10-2008, 11:57 PM
It would help. What good does it do for you to decry the Talmud or the Kabalah but refuse to provide documentation and analysis as to why?



I do not consider truth to be "disparaging".

My solution is very simple: that the Zionists refute the narcissistic claims of their belief system and view themselves as members of equal standing with the rest of the human race, rather than perceiving themselves to be the masters of it, as they apparently do if their own quotes are to be believed.

As long as we can agree that the Zionism you reference is not Yahwism, I agree with your sentiments. Equality, Equity & Parity, a Meritocracy.

Too much 'Background Chatter & Interference' to examine the Torah, and as it relates to the Talmud. Either of my two Threads will illustrate this fact.

Judaism 101 or the BoYHWH Thread.

I am time limited, I must prioritise. I am reading the Isayah Scroll and Heisers Materiel. Plus all my 3D activities preclude extensive Posting and servicing of Threads.

If there is any Forum Member who is unaware of ES Agenda and Technique, they may wish to scrutinise his 'Act' with a bit more focus.

Because, due to his lack of discernment, based upon willful ignorance, his agenda is designed to create Hatred towards a general group of People.

Call it what you will.

But let's go one step further with your solution.

Let's say the 'Zionist' scoff at your solution, then what?

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 12:07 AM
The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic




yo! Es, where is the Link for this Post. Source please.

The OT you(?) reference isn't the original old testament, so another misdirection on your part. The statement itself is idiotic if you would actually read it.

Because you are ignorant you do not realise you are speaking of the Septuagint, a later transcription.

Examine this:
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab85

A variable text: from the 5th century BC

After the return from Babylon the priests in Jerusalem are determined to establish a definitive text of the Bible. Scrolls are exhibited in the Temple forecourt, against which other manuscripts can be checked and corrected. Yet over the centuries the text becomes increasingly subject to change for a purely practical reason.

The original version shows only the consonants. To help in the study of the Torah, schools add vowels and accents to give assistance when reading aloud. This allows ample opportunity for variations to creep in

Yo ES, the Original OT was Scribed in Hebrew by Priests in Jerusalem.

kasalt
28-10-2008, 12:23 AM
As long as we can agree that the Zionism you reference is not Yahwism, I agree with your sentiments. Equality, Equity & Parity, a Meritocracy.

As to whether the aims of Zionism conflict with your Yahwism, I'll leave it up to you make that judgment.

But let's go one step further with your solution.

Let's say the 'Zionist' scoff at your solution, then what?Then I recon we'll all just have to tough it out.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 09:23 AM
yo! Es, where is the Link for this Post. Source please.

The OT you(?) reference isn't the original old testament, so another misdirection on your part. The statement itself is idiotic if you would actually read it.

Because you are ignorant you do not realise you are speaking of the Septuagint, a later transcription.


Yo ES, the Original OT was Scribed in Hebrew by Priests in Jerusalem.

I've posted it before several times and you've either never bothered too read, or you just go along with the Jewish Yahwehists etc version who believe - OT was Scribed in Hebrew by Priests in Jerusalem. Because you've replied to the article with the same reply maybe twice allready.:rolleyes:

Well there's some who don't believe this. In Britain for hundreds of years the Bible was never written in English, so only the Latin speaking priest knew what was in the book!

Now the people know what's written it would explain why most reject the nonsense in the Book. (Yes I am a Barbarian)

Rosenthal's interview he says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive." Lucifer came out of Greece. The Bible is a compilation of these earlier beliefs

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474736#post474736)
http://www.rondart.com/The%20Essential%20Talmud.jpg

Look carefully at the flowery pattern, if you don't see it look again.

Looks like it says Satan aka Lucifer IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=586736#post586736)
The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic

You wanted a link?

Snoops you can go study and learn from this



http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.c...Dec072004.html (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_on_Sweet_Liberty_Dec072004.html)

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.c...Dec082004.html (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_on_Sweet_Liberty_Dec082004.html)

Alan: Even though the Kabbalah has been added to, especially around the 1500's onwards, it definitely – even Wallace Budge who translated lots of the old Egyptian for the London Museum, he claims that he found much of the Kabbalah already existed in ancient Egypt.


It's not a modern thing at all, although it has been added to since the 1500's and it's the same with the Talmud. The Talmud was a Babylonian religion which was taken over, or at least a bunch of people came out of Babylon with an updated religion that was based on the Babylon Talmud. That's when Judaism began.

Jackie: Did the Pharisees not exist yet?

Alan: No. Supposedly, according to the mythology, they were taken into captivity from Israel into Babylon where they were there for a couple of hundred years. When they went in they had Levi, the priests, and a set of rituals and so on, basically the Books of Moses or at least the oral tradition of Moses. When they came out they had Talmud, which is now the main book, and they had the Pharisaical priesthood and the Sadducees, which again, as in all these mystic religions, has double meanings.

The Sadducees who were the supposed nobility of the supposed Jews and I've no doubt they were the nobility of Babylon that came out there. Their symbol was the serpent and you'll find too in the Jewish traditions of Moses the brazen serpent that he had made to go in front of him with the wings and a serpent on the staff was put into a sacred grove and it was worshiped there basically for a couple of hundred years.



The Sadducees, again, have this serpent symbol and remember, too, it's really a Latin term. We're reading a Latinized name here, Sadducees, and if you take the S and put it back into a C, you have the Caduceus.

Jackie: Caduceus, and that was their staff right?

Alan: The serpent again, so it's all games and tricks you see and the blind cannot see. That's the whole idea. Those who have no eyes don't see what's right in front of them. They play these games with us all the time.



Pharisees is also a play on pharaoh, you see, and Pharis- and Paris is actually the eagle, so that's the royal eagle, basically.

Alan: Yes, the ancient mystery religion which ran Babylon, Egypt and all the old worlds.

Alan: There's no mention in the Persian, Egyptian or anybody else's histories of Israel. On the Greek's maps they had an entire area that was called Edomia for the Edomians. All we can really say is that the whole idea of an Israel began much later with a bunch of people coming out of Babylon.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 09:35 AM
If there is any Forum Member who is unaware of ES Agenda and Technique, they may wish to scrutinise his 'Act' with a bit more focus.

Because, due to his lack of discernment, based upon willful ignorance, his agenda is designed to create Hatred towards a general group of People.




I'm exposing what some Jews believe and think of us none Jews. (and you don't like the truth)You're shilling for the Babylonian Brotherhood. You are the one who's spreading lies. I've posted facts about Judaism, like these below, this is one way they stay a head in business (they lie and cheat to none Jews as instructed in the Talmud)

One of those "Divine Truths" from the TALMUD is the holy KOL NIDRE OATH (All Vows Prayer). It is recited thrice by the synagogue congregation as prologue to YOM KIPPUR rites,(The Day of Atonement) "The Highest of Holy Days". It has also been set to music by Felix Mendlessohn, JEW (Marrano). Most Christians, including the clergy, believe the KOL NIDRE OATH is a profound vow to God. In FACT the TALMUD demands that every JEW must break in advance all oaths and sworn declarations a JEW might make to a Gentile during the ensuing year:
"My promises shall not bind...my vows shall not be reckoned vows...nor my oath oaths...every vow which I make in the future shall be NUL from this Day of Atonement until the next." TALMUD: Kol Nidre Oath.



The TALMUD is the very foundation of JEWISH life. It is taught to JEWISH children as soon as they are old enough to read. RABBI MORRIS KERTZER, American JEWISH Committee.


In this New World Order the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which is said that when the Messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands."

— Baruch Levy, Letter to Karl Marx, 'La Revue de Paris', p.574, June 1, 1928

mynameis
28-10-2008, 02:30 PM
I'm exposing what some Jews believe and think of us none Jews. (and you don't like the truth)You're shilling for the Babylonian Brotherhood. You are the one who's spreading lies. I've posted facts about Judaism, like these below, this is one way they stay a head in business (they lie and cheat to none Jews as instructed in the Talmud)

One of those "Divine Truths" from the TALMUD is the holy KOL NIDRE OATH (All Vows Prayer). It is recited thrice by the synagogue congregation as prologue to YOM KIPPUR rites,(The Day of Atonement) "The Highest of Holy Days". It has also been set to music by Felix Mendlessohn, JEW (Marrano). Most Christians, including the clergy, believe the KOL NIDRE OATH is a profound vow to God. In FACT the TALMUD demands that every JEW must break in advance all oaths and sworn declarations a JEW might make to a Gentile during the ensuing year:
"My promises shall not bind...my vows shall not be reckoned vows...nor my oath oaths...every vow which I make in the future shall be NUL from this Day of Atonement until the next." TALMUD: Kol Nidre Oath.



The TALMUD is the very foundation of JEWISH life. It is taught to JEWISH children as soon as they are old enough to read. RABBI MORRIS KERTZER, American JEWISH Committee.


In this New World Order the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which is said that when the Messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands."

— Baruch Levy, Letter to Karl Marx, 'La Revue de Paris', p.574, June 1, 1928


My Assumption about the above shilling:

A.) Soandso is a lying cheater
B.) Lying cheater tells you another Soandso is cheating you
C.) You get mad at the second Soandso while the first is in your house robbing you while you confront the second Soandso.
D.) Rinse and repeat....and you have Eternal_Spirit here on Icke's discussion forum.

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 03:18 PM
I've posted it before several times and you've either never bothered too read, or you just go along with the Jewish Yahwehists etc version who believe - OT was Scribed in Hebrew by Priests in Jerusalem. Because you've replied to the article with the same reply maybe twice allready.:rolleyes:

No ES, it is ACTUAL Scholars, who are ACTUALLY CREDENTIALED in their respective Fields of Expertise who have submitted their Research to Peer-Review, thus ensuring Quality Control of the End Product.

Examine the Source of the Tanakh:

Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well there's some who don't believe this. In Britain for hundreds of years the Bible was never written in English, so only the Latin speaking priest knew what was in the book!

So?

Now the people know what's written it would explain why most reject the nonsense in the Book. (Yes I am a Barbarian)

unitelligible


Rosenthal's interview he says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive." Lucifer came out of Greece. The Bible is a compilation of these earlier beliefs

Idiotic; the word Lucifer is Latin, never used by the Hebrews, did you peerform Due Diligence to verify this assertion? Apparently not as you would know Lucifer was a mistranslation by Jerome, a Catholic. The actual Verse is actually in the Isayah Scroll I Posted earlier. Do some re-research.



The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic
You wanted a link?

Again, you are speaking of the Septuagint, a much later rendering. This is proof of your lack of discernment or deliberate misdirection.

Source of Tanakh-OT
Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Snoops you can go study and learn from this


Alan: Even though the Kabbalah has been added to, especially around the 1500's onwards, it definitely – even Wallace Budge who translated lots of the old Egyptian for the London Museum, he claims that he found much of the Kabbalah already existed in ancient Egypt.


It's not a modern thing at all, although it has been added to since the 1500's and it's the same with the Talmud. The Talmud was a Babylonian religion which was taken over, or at least a bunch of people came out of Babylon with an updated religion that was based on the Babylon Talmud. That's when Judaism began.

Half correct, many of the Yahdaim(people of YHHW) were corrupted by the Babylonian Captivity. Many were not.

Jackie: Did the Pharisees not exist yet?

Alan: No. Supposedly, according to the mythology, they were taken into captivity from Israel into Babylon where they were there for a couple of hundred years. When they went in they had Levi, the priests, and a set of rituals and so on, basically the Books of Moses or at least the oral tradition of Moses. When they came out they had Talmud, which is now the main book, and they had the Pharisaical priesthood and the Sadducees, which again, as in all these mystic religions, has double meanings.

The Sadducees who were the supposed nobility of the supposed Jews and I've no doubt they were the nobility of Babylon that came out there. Their symbol was the serpent and you'll find too in the Jewish traditions of Moses the brazen serpent that he had made to go in front of him with the wings and a serpent on the staff was put into a sacred grove and it was worshiped there basically for a couple of hundred years.

The Sadducees, again, have this serpent symbol and remember, too, it's really a Latin term. We're reading a Latinized name here, Sadducees, and if you take the S and put it back into a C, you have the Caduceus.

Jackie: Caduceus, and that was their staff right?

Alan: The serpent again, so it's all games and tricks you see and the blind cannot see. That's the whole idea. Those who have no eyes don't see what's right in front of them. They play these games with us all the time.


A morons opinion, lets look at this in its original context


http://www.karaitejudaism.org/talks/Satan_and_the_Snake.htm

6 YHVH sent seraph serpents (hanachashim haseraphim fiery serpents/snakes) against the people. They bit the people and many of the Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned by speaking against YHVH and against you. Intercede with YHVH to take away the serpents (hanachash) from us!” And Moses interceded for the people. 8 Then YHVH said to Moses, “Make a seraph figure and mount it on a standard. And if anyone who is bitten looks at it, he shall recover.” 9 Moses made a copper serpent (nachash nachashet serpent of copper) and mounted it on a standard; and when anyone was bitten by a serpent (hanachash), he would look at the copper serpent (nachash) and recover.

One of the punishments was snakes brought against the people.

Devarim/Deuteronomy 8:15

15 who led you through the great and terrible wilderness with its seraph serpents (nachash seraph) and scorpions, a parched land with no water in it, who brought forth water for you from the flinty rock;

Moshe recounts the snakes that befell them.



Pharisees is also a play on pharaoh, you see, and Pharis- and Paris is actually the eagle, so that's the royal eagle, basically.

Alan: Yes, the ancient mystery religion which ran Babylon, Egypt and all the old worlds.

Alan: There's no mention in the Persian, Egyptian or anybody else's histories of Israel. On the Greek's maps they had an entire area that was called Edomia for the Edomians. All we can really say is that the whole idea of an Israel began much later with a bunch of people coming out of Babylon.


Utter nonsence as any reputable Lexicon or Concordance including actual archeological record. Many Egyptian Scrolls mention the Israelites, usually when the Egyptians won a Battle, rarely when they Lost.

Here are Concordances and Lexicons. Type in the word Pharisee and read the results. You have lapped up poo from a moron without checking it out.
http://www.eliyah.com/

Archaeological Records which refute the moron alan watt. I understand your fondness for him, 'Birds of a feather....eh wot' :D

301 Moved Permanently


http://blog.bibleplaces.com/


http://www.bib-arch.org/

http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jerusalem/Reclaiming_Biblical_Jerusalem.asp

http://aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-_Part_2.asp


And should you ever desire to take on some actual Scholarship, that would actually raise your IQ, may I heartily reccomend you peruse this actual scholarship.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

Due to your own lack of Study, you have never read even one translation of the Bible, your lack of Discernment by Posting lies and falsehoods about jewish people amongst some truths, acceptance of any bullshit as long as it fits your world view, which is apparently limited to your chair at your desk, facing a computer screen, you have failed to make your case.

A case can be made that you are a Rabid Bigot.

What is your Solution?

runciter
28-10-2008, 03:20 PM
My Assumption about the above shilling:

A.) Soandso is a lying cheater
B.) Lying cheater tells you another Soandso is cheating you
C.) You get mad at the second Soandso while the first is in your house robbing you while you confront the second Soandso.
D.) Rinse and repeat....and you have Eternal_Spirit here on Icke's discussion forum.

what are the lies, exactly? i think it was substantially correct..

runciter
28-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Due to your own lack of Study, you have never read even one translation of the Bible, your lack of Discernment by Posting lies and falsehoods about jewish people amongst some truths, acceptance of any bullshit as long as it fits your world view, which is apparently limited to your chair at your desk, facing a computer screen, you have failed to make your case.

A case can be made that you are a Rabid Bigot.

What is your Solution?

the "rabid bigots" are the ones who believe they are superior beings.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 04:10 PM
the "rabid bigots" are the ones who believe they are superior beings.
what are the lies, exactly? i think it was substantially correct..

Yes like what the Jewish religion teaches and Rabbis/politicians/Zionists, all have been quoted on this thread, which is proof.

The lies are from snoopsnuffleopagus and myjewishnameis. They are playing the racist Rabbis and Zionists games easy to see with all the name calling (common ADL tactics)

mynameis
28-10-2008, 04:15 PM
what are the lies, exactly? i think it was substantially correct..

Yes like what the Jewish religion teaches and Rabbis/politicians/Zionists, all have been quoted on this thread, which is proof.

The lies are from snoopsnuffleopagus and myjewishnameis. They are playing the racist Rabbis and Zionists games easy to see with all the name calling (common ADL tactics)

What you fail to see ES, is that there are disingenuous liars in all groups ES. And you can't sniff out a liar from an honest person in any form even if it were to save your own skin. Your compass of morality is thus broken and warped in such a way. I feel sorry for you.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 04:16 PM
My Assumption about the above shilling:

A.) Soandso is a lying cheater
B.) Lying cheater tells you another Soandso is cheating you
C.) You get mad at the second Soandso while the first is in your house robbing you while you confront the second Soandso.
D.) Rinse and repeat....and you have Eternal_Spirit here on Icke's discussion forum.

More proof that mynameis shilling

The Kol Nidre (http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/kolnidre.htm)
The first and most important prayer of the Talmudist (Jewish) Holiday. "All vows , obligations, oaths, and anathemas. . . from this Day of Atonement until the next. . . we do repent.. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect; they shall not bind us nor have power over us. The vows shall not be obligatory; nor the oaths be oaths."

mynameis
28-10-2008, 04:20 PM
More proof that mynameis shilling

The Kol Nidre (http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/kolnidre.htm)
The first and most important prayer of the Talmudist (Jewish) Holiday. "All vows , obligations, oaths, and anathemas. . . from this Day of Atonement until the next. . . we do repent.. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect; they shall not bind us nor have power over us. The vows shall not be obligatory; nor the oaths be oaths."




LULZ @ ES. Is the poor little guy getting sniffles and sensitive with my remarks again? I feel sorry for you ES. :D

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 04:21 PM
What you fail to see ES, is that there are disingenuous liars in all groups ES. And you can't sniff out a liar from an honest person in any form even if it were to save your own skin. Your compass of morality is thus broken and warped in such a way. I feel sorry for you.

KOL NIDRE When reading this 'Kol Nidre" prayer, doesn't it make you wonder how any elected government official in these United States of America, whether it be at the local, state or federal level, could ever take a meaningful vow to defend and protect the Constitution for the United States of America? No matter what vow they take, the prayer absolves them of adherence. In other words, their word means NOTHING!
How would you like to have a Talmudic (Jewish) president? Of course, it doesn't really matter, and hasn't for a long time, because the Talmudists have been in power as the Shadow Government for so long -- maybe since the inception of the U.S. Constitution, and it becomes more and more clear that Americans are governed by them and are oppressed under the Talmudic / Commercial / International laws.
Here is the prayer, and an explanation of it from the Jewish Encyclopedia, on line.
Jackie — April 11th, 2003

THE KOL NIDRE
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=340&letter=K
By : Joseph Jacobs Max Schloessinger Cyrus Adler Francis L. Cohen
Prayer recited in the synagogue at the beginning of the evening service on the Day of Atonement; the name is taken from the opening words. The "Kol Nidre" has had a very eventful history, both in itself and in its influence on the legal status of the Jews.
Introduced into the liturgy despite the opposition of rabbinic authorities, repeatedly attacked in the course of time by many halakists, and in the nineteenth century expunged from the prayer-book by many communities of western Europe, it has often been employed by Christians to support their assertion that the oath of a Jew can not be trusted.
Form of Prayer.
Before sunset on the eve of the Day of Atonement, when the congregation has gathered in the synagogue, the Ark is opened and two rabbis, or two leading men in the community, take from it two Torah-scrolls.
Then they take their places, one on each side of the ?azzan, and the three recite in concert a formula beginning with the words, which runs as follows: "In the tribunal of heaven and the tribunal of earth, by the permission of God -- blessed be He -- and by the permission of this holy congregation, we hold it lawful to pray with the transgressors." Thereupon the cantor chants the Aramaic prayer beginning with the words "Kol Nidre," with its marvelously plaintive and touching melody, and, gradually increasing in volume from pianissimo to fortissimo, repeats three times the following words: "All vows , obligations, oaths, and anathemas, whether called '?onam,' '?onas,' or by any other name, which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next (whose happy coming we await), we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect; they shall not bind us nor have power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligatory; nor the oaths be oaths."
The leader and the congregation then say together: (Num. xv. 26). "And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them, seeing all the people were in ignorance" This also is repeated three times. The ?azzan then closes with the benediction, : "Blessed art thou, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, who hast preserved us and hast brought us to enjoy this season." In many congregations Num. xiv. 19-20 is recited before this benediction. After it the Torah-scrolls are replaced, and the customary evening service begins.

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 04:27 PM
the "rabid bigots" are the ones who believe they are superior beings.


That is one aspect, another aspect is lying about, and misrepresenting a group of people. Half-Truths are Whole Lies.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=587639&postcount=211
Although I'd be here until next week if I tried to explain some of the things that have happened to me over the past 20 odd years. I try research every possibility and for some experiences I'm still unsure what the truth is.

runciter, I am discussing a matter with ES, he has Posted about 8,000 Posts about the Bible or the characters and events. The 'problem' is: ES, has not read the Bible once, ever. So he fills his head with nonsense and 5th rate scholarship and presents it as fact.

I have taken time to refute him with factual evidence, but that has no merit in his world view.

In another Thread you inferred I was a 'Zionist Shill'. Based upon what actual fact did you come to this conclusion? I have made my Core Position vividly clear for more than one year. There is an apalling lack of comprehension and discernment around this particular neck of woods, and I am not speaking about those who disagree with me, rather a refusal to recognise ACTUAL FACTS, proven by Science, Archaeology, Historical Records.

As far as I know, I am the only Forum Member who endorses and promotes Meritocracy-Equality, Equity and Parity for ALL Humans.

Even though I have Posted about Yahwism for more than a year, ES thought I was Posting about Messianic Judaism. ES has an acute lack of discernment. Since ES never read the Bible, her Postings are mere speculative conjecture, due to the sloppy scholarship, or non-existant scholarship she embraces, she confuses and muddles already settled academic issues, this is mis-direction and obfusacation.

There are a few absolutes and from these valid conclusions may be attained.

ES has transgressed far beyond sloppy scholarship and engages in deliberate mis-representation which for those of us who are informed, his information is absolutely absurd and False.

There are many young impressionable Minds perusing these Forums, the Adults should exercise some self-restraint and ascertain the Materiel they present can have at least 'some' Basis in fact.


I, myself, engage in speculative conjecture, and I am aware of what speculative conjecture is and the difference between that and Historical and Scientific Reality.


It is all about Discernment, Self-Restraint and Self-Discipline. I am in NY, I swim in a Sea of every Ethnicity and Creed.

There are good and bad in every group. Both the good and bad 'organise' to advance their own agendas. Every Ethnicity and every Creed.

My personal World View is: Yahweh is the SupraAnthropomorphic Creator Being who Created this Universe from the Position of another Dimension or other Universe.

Hillel-HaSatan is YHWHs estranged wife-The Leader of the Rebels

This is based upon Linguistic Records, Archaeological Records, and Scientific Records.

Those who are 'Railing' at the djoos or the djesuits are 'fishin' downstream' from where the 'Real Action' is. There are alot of pots I don't stick my nose in: the jesuits, the jews, the kabbalah, the talmud, Scientology..so on and so forth.

I have read extensively on all these and many more. I enjoy the Tao Tse Tching, Bhudda, aspects of many schools of thought. I was studying the Holographic Universe in the 80s.

Due to time constraints, I limit my Focus to Yahwism, which predates Judaism, and even Babylon.

So serious research is necessary in regards to this most contentious situation.

Where's everybody 'coming from', what are your particular Biases and Agendas.

Thats why I Posted the National Revelation Post and the Third Temple Post, because frankly, this is a very profound and complex situation with very potent forces at play.

Hearts & Minds.

When one has an Historical Overview of the entire situation we are aware the Talmud has caused great harm to the djoos and much of humanity. But it remains one aspect of the entire problem.

"There are many who are flailing at the branches of evil, very few who are striking at the root' my apologies to Thoreau.

lottie
28-10-2008, 04:27 PM
This thread is heading toward the rant room- STOP accusing each other of lying for a start- you're all entitled to your opinions, you'll all see things differently and your truths will also differ but to accuse others of deliberately lying and being shills etc is not only boring but probably innaccurate, i doubt very few of you if any know the real truth about these ancient texts due to the fact that you wern't around at the time of writing or when the events actually occured! ou may by all means specualte but calling each other liars etc etc is unfair- everyone has their own truth, if you dont agree with it say so- put your point across and move on!
This is a good thread and would be a shame to see it end up in the rant room! Any further insults will incurr points!

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 04:31 PM
A Sayanim (The secret Jewish network)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11587

runciter
28-10-2008, 04:40 PM
runciter, I am discussing a matter with ES, he has Posted about 8,000 Posts about the Bible or the characters and events. The 'problem' is: ES, has not read the Bible once, ever. So he fills his head with nonsense and 5th rate scholarship and presents it as fact.


it seems to me that his posts are about the talmud, not the bible.


In another Thread you inferred I was a 'Zionist Shill'. Based upon what actual fact did you come to this conclusion? I have made my Core Position vividly clear for more than one year. There is an apalling lack of comprehension and discernment around this particular neck of woods, and I am not speaking about those who disagree with me, rather a refusal to recognise ACTUAL FACTS, proven by Science, Archaeology, Historical Records.


i never called you a shill, i think you're only a zionist "sympathizer".

runciter
28-10-2008, 04:46 PM
i doubt very few of you if any know the real truth about these ancient texts due to the fact that you wern't around at the time of writing or when the events actually occured!


a 100% reliable source on the talmud is israeli author israel shahak (1933-2001).

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 04:48 PM
Utter nonsence as any reputable Lexicon or Concordance including actual archeological record. Many Egyptian Scrolls mention the Israelites, usually when the Egyptians won a Battle, rarely when they Lost.

Here are Concordances and Lexicons. Type in the word Pharisee and read the results. You have lapped up poo from a moron without checking it out.
http://www.eliyah.com/

Archaeological Records which refute the moron alan watt. I understand your fondness for him, 'Birds of a feather....eh wot' :D

http://www.vimeo.com/410567/
http://blog.bibleplaces.com/


http://www.bib-arch.org/

http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jerusalem/Reclaiming_Biblical_Jerusalem.asp

http://aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-_Part_2.asp


And should you ever desire to take on some actual Scholarship, that would actually raise your IQ, may I heartily reccomend you peruse this actual scholarship.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

Due to your own lack of Study, you have never read even one translation of the Bible, your lack of Discernment by Posting lies and falsehoods about jewish people amongst some truths, acceptance of any bullshit as long as it fits your world view, which is apparently limited to your chair at your desk, facing a computer screen, you have failed to make your case.

A case can be made that you are a Rabid Bigot.

What is your Solution?

There's many people believe
the Israel in the bible never existed - Google Search

1. Can the Bible Stand the Test - Part 3: The Critics vs. the Bible ... (http://www.mcleanbible.org/uploads/can_the_bible_stand_the_test_3.pdf)

"We’ve never found either one of their. names outside of the Bible. #9. The nation of Israel never existed as a true, coagulated people in ..."
www.mcleanbible.org/uploads/can_the_bible_stand_the_test_3.pdf

2. Amazon.co.uk: The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology\'s New Vision of ...

"Experts understanding of ancient Israel and its neighbours, and Bible tales, ... The authors assert that Abraham, Isaac and jacob never existed, ..."
www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869128

3. [URL="http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/israel-archaeology.htm"]Israel Archaeology (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869128)

"9 Kathleen Kenyon, The Bible and Recent Archaeology, rev. ed., ... Ancient Israel Additional Content To Explore... Does God Exist Scientifically? ..."
www.allaboutthejourney.org/israel-archaeology.htm

4. Bible Unearthed eBooks - Israel Finkelstein - Neil Asher Silberman ... (http://ebooks.ebookmall.com/title/bible-unearthed-finkelstein-silberman-ebooks.htm)

"The Bible Unearthed eBooks - Israel Finkelstein - Neil Asher Silberman. ... They assert, for example, that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never existed, ..."
ebooks.ebookmall.com/title/bible-unearthed-finkelstein-silberman-ebooks.htm

5. Search for Israel (http://members.dodo.com.au/neilgodfrey/arch/)

"... forced one to conclude that the Israel of the Bible never existed. ... The Israel of the Bible, he argued, was a story-book fiction written as late as ..."
members.dodo.com.au/neilgodfrey/arch/

6. Baali – FREE Baali Information | Encyclopedia.com: Facts, Pictures ... (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Baali.html)

"Canaan--key events in the Bible that explain Israel's emergence in the Promised. ..things, that ancient Israel as described in the Bible never existed; ..."
www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Baali.html

7. Welcome to Enlightenment! Religion – the Tragedy of Mankind ... (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/)

""Son of man ... eat this scroll, then speak to the house of Israel. ... Have you ordered your Jesus Never Existed • sweatshirt • coffee mug • greetings card ..."
www.jesusneverexisted.com/

8. Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: Mario Liverani ... (http://www.claudemariottini.com/blog/2008/02/mario-liverani-bible-jim-west-and.html)

"1 Feb 2008 ... If Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never existed, how can this statement ... If the Bible is just a human book, the product of ancient Israel and ..."
www.claudemariottini.com/blog/2008/02/mario-liverani-bible-jim-west-and.html

9. Mano Singham's Web Journal: The Bible as history-3: Enter modern ... (http://blog.case.edu/singham/2006/11/29/the_bible_as_history3_enter_modern_archeology)

"29 Nov 2006 ... King Ahab of Israel [who reigned around 850 BCE] is well-documented ... of " biblical minimalists" who maintain that he never existed at all. ..."
blog.case.edu/singham/2006/11/29/the_bible_as_history3_enter_modern_archeology

10. Amazon.com: The Divine Symphony: The Bible\'s Many Voices: Israel ...

"Amazon.com: The Divine Symphony: The Bible's Many Voices: Israel Knohl: Books. ... the idea that ancient Israel never existed as a historical reality, ..."
www.amazon.com/Divine-Symphony-Bibles-Many-Voices/dp/082760761X

11. [URL="http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/cgi-bin/item/parent-9780684869124/The-Bible-Unearthed-eBook.html"]The Bible Unearthed ebook Finkelstein, Israel Diesel eBooks (http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Symphony-Bibles-Many-Voices/dp/082760761X)

"They assert, for example, that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never existed, ... The Bible Unearthed. Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin ..."
www.diesel-ebooks.com/cgi-bin/item/parent-9780684869124/The-Bible-Unearthed-eBook.html

12. National Israel and Judah | Christian Assemblies International (http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/national-israel-and-judah)

"The Bible states that David’s throne shall exist for ever: "…David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel. ..."
www.cai.org/bible-studies/national-israel-and-judah

13. Israel-Palestine RIGHT TO RETURN and the BIBLE (http://www.al-bushra.org/latpatra/right.htm)

"The RIGHT TO RETURN to Israel-Palestine is a crucial concept in understanding the right to ..... The Bible will never call for injustices and exclusivity, ..."
www.al-bushra.org/latpatra/right.htm

14. If the bible had never existed......would we still have ... (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080825070728AA3TBt6)

"If the bible had never existed......would we still have Christianity? ... Act 2: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made ..."
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080825070728AA3TBt6

15. False testament: archaeology refutes the Bible's claim to history (http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_%28Harpers%29.htm)

"101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History ..... Silberman concluded that Judah and Israel had never existed under the same roof. ..."
www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm

16. The Divine Symphony: The Bible's Many Voices - By: Israel Knohl ... (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=60761X&netp_id=331313&event=EDD&item_code=WW&view=covers)

"Christianbook.com (CBD): The Divine Symphony: The Bible's Many Voices 082760761X ... the idea that ancient Israel never existed as a historical reality, ..."
www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=60761X&netp_id=331313&event=EDD&item_code=WW&view=covers

17. 3 11 02 pr Bible and Archeology (http://www.sinaicentral.com/gendercentral/pr31102BibleArcheology.htm)

"The early Israelites mentioned in the bible never existed, it is claimed. ... If so, the biblical claim that Jews were in Israel 3200 years ago is accepted ..."
www.sinaicentral.com/gendercentral/pr31102BibleArcheology.htm

18. John Hagee Keynotes Night to Honor Israel at Furman - The Times ... (http://www.timesexaminer.com/content/view/106/1/)

"Israel has a Bible mandate to own and possess the land of Israel forever. ... He went on to say: “The Palestinians have never existed as an autonomous ..."
www.timesexaminer.com/content/view/106/1/

19. Archeological Evidence Supporting the Credibility and Accuracy of ... (http://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/archeological-evidence-supporting-the-credibility-and-accuracy-of-the-bible/)

"19 Dec 2007 ... Again, this discovery contradicts the claim that King David never existed and correlates with events testified to in the Bible ..."
conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/archeological-evidence-supporting-the-credibility-and-accuracy-of-the-bible/

20. Origin of the Cosmos: Ch 12 (http://www.oldpaths.com/Archive/Lockwood/Germaine/Charles/1930/Cosmos/ch12.html)

"The Hittites are mentioned about 40 times in the Bible. In the 1800's critical scholars said that the Hittites had never existed. ..."
www.oldpaths.com/Archive/Lockwood/Germaine/Charles/1930/Cosmos/ch12.html


Solutions - The Jews need to stop thinking they are superior and God's chosen.

Play fair in business and not favour each other above none Jews.

Rothschilds and the Jewish banking cabal need to give back some of that money to all the Countries they conned with Usury. I heard 7 out of 10 Billionaires are Jewish. (If this number was Africans or English or another group people would wonder wtf is going on)

Sort out the problems they created in Africa (apartheid) EDIT and give back the Gold and Diamonds to the Africans and other resources that are mostly Jew owned. (google blood diamonds and Israel) and treat Palestinian Muslims and Christians like fellow humans.

kasalt
28-10-2008, 05:02 PM
what are the lies, exactly? i think it was substantially correct..

Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Baba Kamma 113a-b:
'Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; so also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party:] 'This is your law'; but if this can not be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent him...it is to your brother that you make restoration, but you need not make restoration to a heathen.
The Talmud goes on to state the sole exception to this rule as, "where there was a danger of causing a profanation of the Name".

Source: http://www.come-and-hear.com/babakamma/babakamma_113.html

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Rosenthal's interview he says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

So Snoops why would Rosenthal (A Jew) say this? BTW Lucifer was a Greek deity like I said earlier. This is why I hold with Watt's and others take the Bible was written first in Greek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474736#post474736)
http://www.rondart.com/The%20Essential%20Talmud.jpg

Look carefully at the flowery pattern, if you don't see it look again.

Looks like it says Satan aka Lucifer IMO. And what about this Snoops your beloved Talmud it has the word Satan on the cover?

Quote:


Quote:
Harold Wallace Rosenthal, 29, a personal assistant to New York Senator
Jacob Javits felt that Jewish power was so unassailable that he could
make some extra cash by telling this story to Walter White Jr., the
editor of the Conservative monthly Western Front.

"Too many Jews do not have the guts to tell you how we live and plan,
but I am not intimated by anything or anyone," Rosenthal told White.

here are some quotes from the interview

Rosenthal says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

INSIGHTS

Rosenthal says the "Jews" have built an earthly empire partly by
rejecting Christ's vision of a spiritual kingdom based on brotherly
love. Jewish bankers plan to govern the world from Jerusalem according
to their own interests.

He says the Jewish religion is essentially a disguise for a racial
imperative. "We can live among other people and states [by] persuading
them that the Jews are not a "race" of people but the representatives of
a religious faith..."

"Through control of banking, the "Jews" acquired a total monopoly of
"the movie industry, the radio networks and the newly developing
television media...we took over the publication of all school
materials... Even your music! We censor the songs released for
publication long before they reach the publishers...we will have
complete control of your thinking."

He boasts that they even implanted a "guilt complex" over the Holocaust
and anti Semitism that prevents society from addressing the problem.

"We Jews have put issue upon issue to the American people. Then we
promote both sides of the issue as confusion reigns. With their eyes
fixed on the issues, they fail to see who is behind every scene. We Jews
toy with the American public as a cat toys with a mouse."

"History has been written in blood, not with ink. No letter, editorial
or book has ever rallied the people or stopped tyranny. We understand
this principle and are forever propagandizing the people to write
letters to the President, to Congress...Woe be unto us if they ever see
the futility of it, lay down the pen and employ the sword."

Rosenthal talks about how a "Jewish" invisible government also controls
the USSR, and how the UN is "nothing but a trap door to the Red World's
immense concentration camp." He says this invisible power is responsible
for the wars and revolutions of the last 200 years"

read the full interview here

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/...rview_1976.htm (http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/Harold_Wallace_Rosenthal_Interview_1976.htm)

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 06:02 PM
[QUOTE=runciter;587785]it seems to me that his posts are about the talmud, not the bible.
To understand the Talmud it is profitable to have read the Bible, from which the Talmud took its; cue points. These are Rabbinacal musings from 3,000
years ago, and more often then not distort and misconstrue of the Laws of the Torah. Unless you understand the Torah, you will not understand the Talmud in its context. YHWH doesn't like the Talmud. That said, I do not think one should extract musings, out of context, to incite hatred.


i never called you a shill, i think you're only a zionist "sympathizer".

For the record: My definition of Zion is the Biblical Definition. I am %100 Apolitical. So you think incorrectly. now you know. I have already Posted a Biblical View of the Solution. You mortals may continue to seek your mortal conclusions. Like Kasalt said: I'm toughin' it out.

And I sympathize and empathize with every human being, every critter, including enzymes, ;) past, present and future regardless of Race, Creed, Class and the Planet Earth for the ways our collective ignorance has defiled it. I say its' a 'Good Thing' we are restricted to this Planet. Bad for Earth, Good for the Universe. lol

No one group has a monopoly on ignorance.

I have had my say in this Thread. Let the Chips Fall Where They May.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 06:19 PM
quote=snoopsnuffleopagus


runciter, I am discussing a matter with ES, he has Posted about 8,000 Posts about the Bible or the characters and events. The 'problem' is: ES, has not read the Bible once, ever.

LOL nowhere near that many and my sources and what I've read some comes from Historical and Biblical and religous scholars who've been at it longer than you.
I and some others have tried to save you from the insanity of your messianic beliefs and prophecies written by the Priesthoods and has nothing to do with God's words.

Your sources are very one sided

As far as I know, I am the only Forum Member who endorses and promotes Meritocracy-Equality, Equity and Parity for ALL Humans.

That's a slur on all other forum members. And your religion sure doesn't teach equality as proven on many threads here and also can be viewed in reality offline in the real world.

Even though I have Posted about Yahwism for more than a year, ES thought I was Posting about Messianic Judaism.

Same thing you all follow Yahweh. Here you are shilling for the House of Yahweh Cult link below

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14182

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194340&postcount=8


There are many young impressionable Minds perusing these Forums, the Adults should exercise some self-restraint and ascertain the Materiel they present can have at least 'some' Basis in fact.

That's why they need to know the facts/truths about sick religions like yours. Doctors have proven circumcision is totally wrong (only to be done under very rare medical conditions) yet Judaism still practice it and views this hideous/vile/evil practice of a blood ritual as a Covenant with their God.


I, myself, engage in speculative conjecture, and I am aware of what speculative conjecture is and the difference between that and Historical and Scientific Reality.

In your opinion same could be said for everyone else here.

quote lottie: i doubt very few of you if any know the real truth about these ancient texts due to the fact that you wern't around at the time of writing or when the events actually occured

Like I've said all along Snoops, you only believe that your version is true

My personal World View is: Yahweh is the SupraAnthropomorphic Creator Being who Created this Universe from the Position of another Dimension or other Universe.

Yahweh likes Sacrifice in his name. I think you have banked on the wrong deity
Hillel-HaSatan is YHWHs estranged wife-The Leader of the Rebels

Who are the rebels?

This is based upon Linguistic Records, Archaeological Records, and Scientific Records.

And there's many others that dispute your beliefs.

Those who are 'Railing' at the djoos or the djesuits are 'fishin' downstream' from where the 'Real Action' is. There are alot of pots I don't stick my nose in: the jesuits, the jews, the kabbalah, the talmud, Scientology..so on and so forth.

Real action? The Rothschilds small fish LOL?

I have read extensively on all these and many more. I enjoy the Tao Tse Tching, Bhudda, aspects of many schools of thought. I was studying the Holographic Universe in the 80s.

So why do you only post about Yahweh....

Due to time constraints, I limit my Focus to Yahwism, which predates Judaism, and even Babylon.

Oh right brainwashed and a nonsense there have been many Babylons. (that's a clue)

So serious research is necessary in regards to this most contentious situation.

Yes and many of my sources are from serious researchers including Icke.

runciter
28-10-2008, 06:20 PM
To understand the Talmud it is profitable to have read the Bible, from which the Talmud took its; cue points. These are Rabbinacal musings from 3,000
years ago, and more often then not distort and misconstrue of the Laws of the Torah. Unless you understand the Torah, you will not understand the Talmud in its context. YHWH doesn't like the Talmud. That said, I do not think one should extract musings, out of context, to incite hatred.


it is the talmud itself that incites hatred, not eternal spirit's posts..


For the record: My definition of Zion is the Biblical Definition. I am %100 Apolitical. So you think incorrectly. now you know. I have already Posted a Biblical View of the Solution. You mortals may continue to seek your mortal conclusions. Like Kasalt said: I'm toughin' it out.

And I sympathize and empathize with every human being, every critter, including enzymes, ;) past, present and future regardless of Race, Creed, Class and the Planet Earth for the ways our collective ignorance has defiled it. I say its' a 'Good Thing' we are restricted to this Planet. Bad for Earth, Good for the Universe. lol

No one group has a monopoly on ignorance.

I have had my say in this Thread. Let the Chips Fall Where They May.


ok, but one shouldn't stay neutral when big injustices are committed.

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 06:48 PM
[QUOTE=runciter;587942]it is the talmud itself that incites hatred, not eternal spirit's posts..

And ES is amplifying this by extracting musing out of context to incite division and it is misrepresentative. Example:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=403529&postcount=8

Please provide your opinion of this Post. I have several Times Posted the context.

the Context:
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

Due to lack of discernment and comprehension many fail to realise that I am not defending the Talmud, rather I am opposing deceit. One of the very few.


Used in a dishonest and mis-leading manner. No Structure will stand that is built upon a flawed foundation. The Talmud will fall, the Kabalah will fall, Xtianity will fall, Astrology will fall..............all will fall.

ok, but one shouldn't stay neutral when big injustices are committed.

I agree, and since I posted an Esoteric solution to an Esoteric Problem, and I, myself, walk a restrained and disciplined Path, I am far from Neutral.

I am striking at the Root, you and ES are flailing at the Branchs.

Kapeesh?

and once again; this is everybodys friend. Why? Quality Scholarship that is very pertinent to the matter at hand. As a Professional Labourer in the Demolition and Dismantling Fields, the more intimate the knowledge of the Structure one desires to dismantle, the 'better' the job will go. Ignorance of the Structure results in piss poor performance, like the UN Peace Treaties, all man devised solutions.

If you do not know exactly what you are dealing with, it will probably bite you in the ass.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255


so...what's your Solution?

runciter
28-10-2008, 07:21 PM
And ES is amplifying this by extracting musing out of context to incite division and it is misrepresentative. Example:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=403529&postcount=8

Please provide your opinion of this Post. I have several Times Posted the context.

the Context:
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/three.html

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

Due to lack of discernment and comprehension many fail to realise that I am not defending the Talmud, rather I am opposing deceit. One of the very few.


Used in a dishonest and mis-leading manner. No Structure will stand that is built upon a flawed foundation. The Talmud will fall, the Kabalah will fall, Xtianity will fall, Astrology will fall..............all will fall.


the really real truth about the talmud, goyim edition.. i'm not surprised.


I agree, and since I posted an Esoteric solution to an Esoteric Problem, and I, myself, walk a restrained and disciplined Path, I am far from Neutral.

I am striking at the Root, you and ES are flailing at the Branchs.

Kapeesh?


i don't like esoterism, it's a form of elitism, and it encourages separation.

runciter
28-10-2008, 07:24 PM
and once again; this is everybodys friend. Why? Quality Scholarship that is very pertinent to the matter at hand. As a Professional Labourer in the Demolition and Dismantling Fields, the more intimate the knowledge of the Structure one desires to dismantle, the 'better' the job will go. Ignorance of the Structure results in piss poor performance, like the UN Peace Treaties, all man devised solutions.

If you do not know exactly what you are dealing with, it will probably bite you in the ass.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255


so...what's your Solution?

one state.

krakhead
28-10-2008, 07:28 PM
one state.

Let me guess.... gaseous?

runciter
28-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Let me guess.... gaseous?

wow, a humorous moderator with a very good taste.

a single democratic state, and bye bye supremacism.

runciter
28-10-2008, 07:41 PM
CHAPTER 1

A Closed Utopia?

THIS BOOK, although written in English and addressed to people living outside the State of Israel, is, in a way, a continuation of my political activities as an Israeli Jew. Those activities began in 1965-6 with a protest which caused a considerable scandal at the time: I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to have collapsed in his Jerusalem neighbourhood. Instead of simply publishing the incident in the press, I asked for a meeting which is composed of rabbis nominated by the State of Israel. I asked them whether such behavior was consistent with their interpretation of the Jewish religion. They answered that the Jew in question had behaved correctly, indeed piously, and backed their statement by referring me to a passage in an authoritative compendium of Talmudic laws, written in this century. I reported the incident to the main Hebrew daily, Ha'aretz, whose publication of the story caused a media scandal.

The results of the scandal were, for me, rather negative. Neither the Israeli, nor the diaspora, rabbinical authorities ever reversed their ruling that a Jew should not violate the Sabbath in order to save the life of a Gentile. They added much sanctimonious twaddle to the effect that if the consequence of such an act puts Jews in danger, the violation of the Sabbath is permitted, for their sake. It became apparent to me, as drawing on Talmudic laws governing the relations between Jews and non-Jews, that neither Zionism, including its seemingly secular part, nor Israeli politics since the inception of the State of Israel, nor particularly the policies of the Jewish supporters of Israel in the diaspora, could be understood unless the deeper influence of those laws, and the worldview which they both create and express is taken into account. The actual policies Israel pursued after the Six Day War, and in particular the apartheid character of the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories and the attitude of the majority of Jews to the issue of the rights of the Palestinians, even in the abstract, have merely strengthened this conviction.

By making this statement I am not trying to ignore the political or strategic considerations which may have also influenced the rulers of Israel. I am merely saying that actual politics is an interaction between realistic considerations (whether valid or mistaken, moral or immoral in my view) and ideological influences. The latter tend to be more influential the less they are discussed and 'dragged into the light'. Any form of racism, discrimination and xenophobia becomes more potent and politically influential if it is taken for granted by the society which indulges in it. This is especially so if its discussion is prohibited, either formally or by tacit agreement. When racism, discrimination and xenophobia is prevalent among Jews, and directed against non-Jews, being fueled by religious motivations, it is like its opposite case, that of antisemitism and its religious motivations. Today, however, while the second is being discussed, the very existence of the first is generally ignored, more outside Israel than within it.

Without a discussion of the prevalent Jewish attitudes to non-Jews, even the concept of Israel as 'a Jewish state', as Israel formally defines itself, cannot be understood. The widespread misconception that Israel, even without considering its regime in the Occupied Territories, is a true democracy arises from the refusal to confront the significance of the term 'a Jewish state' for non-Jews. In my view, Israel as a Jewish state constitutes a danger not only to itself and its inhabitants, but to all Jews and to all other peoples and states in the Middle East and beyond. I also consider that other Middle Eastern states or entities which define themselves as 'Arab' or 'Muslim', like the Israeli self-definition as being 'Jewish', likewise constitute a danger. However, while this danger is widely discussed, the danger inherent in the Jewish character of the State of Israel is not.

The principle of Israel as 'a Jewish state' was supremely important to Israeli politicians from the inception of the state and was inculcated into the Jewish population by all conceivable ways. When, in the early 1980s, a tiny minority of Israeli Jews emerged which opposed this concept, a Constitutional Law (that is, a law overriding provisions of other laws, which cannot be revoked except by a special procedure) was passed in 1985 by an enormous majority of the Knesset.

By this law no party whose programme openly opposes the principle of 'a Jewish state' or proposes to change it by democratic means, is allowed to participate in the elections to the Knesset. I myself strongly oppose this constitutional principle. The legal consequence for me is that I cannot belong, in the state of which I am a citizen, to a party having principles with which I would agree and which is allowed to participate in Knesset elections. Even this example shows that the State of Israel is not a democracy due to the application of a Jewish ideology directed against all non-Jews and those Jews who oppose this ideology. But the danger which this dominant ideology represents is not limited to domestic affairs. It also influences Israeli foreign policies. This danger will continue to grow, as long as two currently operating developments are being strengthened: the increase in the Jewish character of Israel and the increase in its power, particularly in nuclear power. Another ominous factor is that Israeli influence in the USA political establishment is also increasing. Hence accurate information about Judaism, and especially about the treatment of non-Jews by Israel, is now not only important, but politically vital as well. (...)

http://www.radioislam.org/historia/shahak/english.htm#1

kasalt
28-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Whilst reading Wikipedia's article on Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, I was shocked to learn that the Koran apparently endorses a Jewish state. I've never read the Koran, so I was unaware of this. Here are the quotes:

Qur'an 5:21 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.021)
"O my people (people of the Book, i.e., Jews)! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."

Qur'an 17:104 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html#017.104)
And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 08:07 PM
wow, a humorous moderator with a very good taste.

a single democratic state, and bye bye supremacism.



:eek: Democracy? Has never worked.

One World Meritocracy, whaddayathinkabouthat?

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 08:23 PM
[QUOTE=runciter;588067]the really real truth about the talmud, goyim edition.. i'm not surprised.

So you think or believe that Talmudic Jews think its OK to rape Gentile Women down to the age of Three?



i don't like esoterism, it's a form of elitism, and it encourages separation.

I used Esoteric as Spiritual, Meta-Physical, Non 3D

For 50 years humans, mortals have been implementing a secular approach to the problem. This hasn't worked.

Howzabout this?: Everybody out except Yahwists who obide by every Word that proceeds from the Mouth of YHWH?

Now that is the original premise.

The 'Jerusalem Conundrum' is wayyyyyyyyyy heavy, very profound underpinnings.

For 40+ years I have observed the Shallow and the Superficial on all sides implementing failure after failure.

Its' worse then ever. Ultimately there is only one solution.

Individuals restraining and disciplining their own behaviour. Many of us still know Right from Wrong, can still discern Truth from Lies, we still know what the term: COMMON DECENCY means.

Do not do to another, what you, yourself, would consider Harmful or Hateful if it was done to you.

The whole Planet is in a War that will be won or lost one individual at a time.

Which Wolf will you feed?

Love, passed to us over space and time to here and now. I am grateful



http://lpintop.tripod.com/laurasinspirationalpages/id17.html
Two Wolves

An old Cherokee chief is teaching his grandson about life:

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.

"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."


The choice is ours, and ours alone.


No more excuses

tintin
28-10-2008, 09:26 PM
Again all empty hollow words by SNOOPS who has
the annoying habit to jump in my threads all
time especially when I am not around.

CRIMINALS ARE CRIMINALS SNOOPS!!

KHAZARS or no KHAZARS......

Already bought a massive overpriced ROTSCHILD HOME
in TEL AVIV Snoops?

http://www.ictam.com/Common_F-N/country_pix/ISRAEL-JORDANIE/ISRAEL2003.jpg

Oh, what a wondeful land
that is and what a wonderful
KHAZARIAN people!!!

friendship
28-10-2008, 09:50 PM
1.
Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time,

nice to see the Un defacto recognise that israeli and Jew are one and the same thing.
its as near as they are capable of getting.

when do you recognize their true nationality?

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 09:51 PM
Again all empty hollow words by SNOOPS who has
the annoying habit to jump in my threads all
time especially when I am not around.

CRIMINALS ARE CRIMINALS SNOOPS!!

KHAZARS or no KHAZARS......

Already bought a massive overpriced ROTSCHILD HOME
in TEL AVIV Snoops?




Whats' that Bad Wolf? Do you have supporting evidence for your baseless accusations? I FIRST engaged you and your beloved at the Unhivedmind. I engaged your beloved in Your Thread :rolleyes: BECAUSE, her Theories about events narrated in the Book of YHWH Necessatated REPLY.

It is your vanity that becomes bruised when one does not become an echo-chamber for your fevered fantasies.


yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


as for my Post a coupla days ago, it 'seemed' like a 'good idea' at the moment to provide a smidgen of Levity.


You and your beloved don't seem to have much of a sense of Humour, hence your Post.

I let your and your beloveds ass slide recently, do not compel me to come to Your Thread :rolleyes: to Chasten and Rebuke you. Now 'Buzz Off' Tinboy

'IF' a few one-liners are able to 'Derail' your thread :rolleyes: there must not be very much weight to it, wouldn't you say?

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 09:57 PM
Rosenthal's interview he says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

So Snoops why would Rosenthal (A Jew) say this? BTW Lucifer was a Greek deity like I said earlier. This is why I hold with Watt's and others take the Bible was written first in Greek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474736#post474736)
http://www.rondart.com/The%20Essential%20Talmud.jpg

Look carefully at the flowery pattern, if you don't see it look again.

Looks like it says Satan aka Lucifer IMO. And what about this Snoops your beloved Talmud it has the word Satan on the cover?

Quote:
Harold Wallace Rosenthal, 29, a personal assistant to New York Senator
Jacob Javits felt that Jewish power was so unassailable that he could
make some extra cash by telling this story to Walter White Jr., the
editor of the Conservative monthly Western Front.

"Too many Jews do not have the guts to tell you how we live and plan,
but I am not intimated by anything or anyone," Rosenthal told White.

here are some quotes from the interview

Rosenthal says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

INSIGHTS

Rosenthal says the "Jews" have built an earthly empire partly by
rejecting Christ's vision of a spiritual kingdom based on brotherly
love. Jewish bankers plan to govern the world from Jerusalem according
to their own interests.

He says the Jewish religion is essentially a disguise for a racial
imperative. "We can live among other people and states [by] persuading
them that the Jews are not a "race" of people but the representatives of
a religious faith..."

"Through control of banking, the "Jews" acquired a total monopoly of
"the movie industry, the radio networks and the newly developing
television media...we took over the publication of all school
materials... Even your music! We censor the songs released for
publication long before they reach the publishers...we will have
complete control of your thinking."

He boasts that they even implanted a "guilt complex" over the Holocaust
and anti Semitism that prevents society from addressing the problem.

"We Jews have put issue upon issue to the American people. Then we
promote both sides of the issue as confusion reigns. With their eyes
fixed on the issues, they fail to see who is behind every scene. We Jews
toy with the American public as a cat toys with a mouse."

"History has been written in blood, not with ink. No letter, editorial
or book has ever rallied the people or stopped tyranny. We understand
this principle and are forever propagandizing the people to write
letters to the President, to Congress...Woe be unto us if they ever see
the futility of it, lay down the pen and employ the sword."

Rosenthal talks about how a "Jewish" invisible government also controls
the USSR, and how the UN is "nothing but a trap door to the Red World's
immense concentration camp." He says this invisible power is responsible
for the wars and revolutions of the last 200 years"

read the full interview here

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/...rview_1976.htm (http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/Harold_Wallace_Rosenthal_Interview_1976.htm)

tintin
28-10-2008, 10:07 PM
Whats' that Bad Wolf? Do you have supporting evidence for your baseless accusations? I FIRST engaged you and your beloved at the Unhivedmind. I engaged your beloved in Your Thread :rolleyes: BECAUSE, her Theories about events narrated in the Book of YHWH Necessatated REPLY.

It is your vanity that becomes bruised when one does not become an echo-chamber for your fevered fantasies.


yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


as for my Post a coupla days ago, it 'seemed' like a 'good idea' at the moment to provide a smigen of Levity.


You and your beloved don't seem to have much of a sense of Humour, hence your Post.

I let your and your beloveds ass slide recently, do not compel me to come to Your Thread :rolleyes: to Chasten and Rebuke you. Now 'Buzz Off' Tinboy

'IF' a few one-liners are able to 'Derail' your thread :rolleyes: there must not be very much weight to it, wouldn't you say?

Miserable CROCODILE.

At least DRINK ALCOHOL!!

Hate guys that dont DRINK.
Guess you stop after one SHERRY!!!! Geezzz
Sure, Snoops, my aunt TRISCULLIAMIA (My Italian aunt) drinks
SHERRY in GIBRALTAR!!!

You'r a bit of a WISEGUY about the TALMUD are YOU?
Then why don't YOU JOIN MY AUNT IN GIBRALTAR.
Lot of STUPID GOYIM MONKEYS!!!!

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 10:22 PM
[QUOTE=eternal_spirit;588371]Rosenthal's interview he says, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is
Lucifer...and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

So Snoops why would Rosenthal (A Jew) say this? BTW Lucifer was a Greek deity like I said earlier. This is why I hold with Watt's and others take the Bible was written first in Greek.
Quote:


It's like this Bad Wolf; Because he is a deceiver ES, a very, very, very, very commonplace character trait these days. :rolleyes:

In Greek, this being is known as Phosphoro, in the ROMAN Pantheon this being is known as Lucifer. I knew this in Elementary School. :rolleyes:





LUCIFER:gods of Roman Mythology: :rolleyes:

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/roman-mythology.php?deity=LUCIFER
Son of the Dawn.
He is the 'Bearer of Light' and God of the Evening Star and Morning Star. He denies any connection with SATAN or any scaly tailed entity with horns.

Under the Greeks he was the gleaming God PHOSPHEROS.



So even though there is actual, Scientificaly Proved Historical Evidence and Actual Documents and Manuscripts that Prove the Documents begin originating in 950 BCE compiled before 500BCE, the Tanakh. Again Elementary. All Scribed in Hebrew, you insist the Septuagint predates these. :rolleyes:

Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 10:32 PM
Miserable CROCODILE.

At least DRINK ALCOHOL!!

Hate guys that dont DRINK.
Guess you stop after one SHERRY!!!! Geezzz
Sure, Snoops, my aunt TRISCULLIAMIA (My Italian aunt) drinks
SHERRY in GIBRALTAR!!!

You'r a bit of a WISEGUY about the TALMUD are YOU?
Then why don't YOU JOIN MY AUNT IN GIBRALTAR.
Lot of STUPID GOYIM MONKEYS!!!!

I enjoy Alcohol in ALL its' many Splediferous Forms. I consume until I have attained a, shall we say, a very enjoyable and pleasant 'Buzz', then I cease.

Self-Restraint & Self-Discipline :)

It is not to your advantage to hate anyone tintin, as that disrupts ones equilibrium. As for the Talmud, as I am not Jewish, I have not been raised or educated in it, so it is not an area of expertise and I restrain myself from talking about things which I don't possess a robust knowledge of. Perhaps you missed the Post prior where I stated I am not defending the Talmud, rather I am opposing deceitfulness.

As for the rest of your missive: Too Cryptic, no coloured Fonts or Pictures, I really do not know what to make of it. are you alluding to Pokeman?

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 10:39 PM
quote: snoopsnuffleopagus

So you think or believe that Talmudic Jews think its OK to rape Gentile Women down to the age of Three?

Says so in the Talmud. And the link you posted to refute the texts was a bad shilling attempt by Rabbis and did not disprove the texts what so ever. I've seen read other attempts at shilling at the most obvious meanings "quotes" from the Talmud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow7 http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=577623#post577623)
i was a member for ten years..and i know for a fact that right before i left the oppressive place, children were underage working long hours...and i know the girl who was abused by yedidiyah hawkins and i know her grandmother as well..and i know that yedidiyah also sexually molested his biological daughter at aged two..i know the mother of that child..and though i did not know at the time why yedidiyah was no longer going to her home when i would visit her, i found out later, after i left the reason why...the elders and yisrayl hawkins KNEW what yedidiyah did, and covered up his sick sin, and they also later accused his stepdaughter who he also sexually abused, of lying when she went to their priestessess..and accused her of being a liar in their sermons..

that is my story..so just because you are swooned by their supposed glorious information...you may want to look beneath the surface..

also i emailed michael heiser personally about the name, which he stated yahuah and yahweh etc..none are correct and that it is pointless to argue about it..etc..i admire his work, and since you say you do as well, you may want to email him and ask him what he thinks about the house of yahweh interpretation of biblical text and scripture, and their additions to their big green "bible"...please, let me know what he replies back, i am quite sure it will be enlightening.

looks like 2000 ce was a bit too early to call..better make a few calls again asap.

also, the house of yahweh say satan is a female...well sorry, but archangels are both male and female.

and if you are not a member of hoy, i am quite astounded at your constant defending of their bullshit.



Nochum Rosenberg, opponent of rabbinic child molestation, is beaten by rabbis in London and is now under police protection (http://www.vosizneias.com/18474/2008/07/24/stamford-hill-london-%E2%80%93-williamsburg-controversial-activist-hackled-flees-to-get-police-protection/) "Inside the (Israeli) gay community itself, a rift is beginning to show. Goel Pinto, a gay journalist who was raised in the Orthodox religious community in Jerusalem and moved to Tel Aviv after having come out and abandoned religion, told of a sexual assault he was subjected to as a child by an ultra-Orthodox man in the local mikvah (ritual bathing establishment)." Homosexual predation against Judaic boys is common in Orthodox Judaism (particularly in the nude "purification" baths or mikvot), due to the Talmudic sanction for pederasty. Judaics who report the molestation or seek to combat it have the halachic status of moiser (informer) and are subject to physical assault and even death under the provisions of a rabbinic herem. For further details see Michael Hoffman's new book Judaism Discovered...From a witness inside Judaism: "I know several people in the Chabad (Lubavitch) community that take (what I consider to be) an extreme position on Mesira (reporting rabbinic child molesters to gentile police and prosecutors). They believe that a person should not serve as an informant, inform the police, or testify (in a goy court) against a Jew (any Jew) that commits just about any crime against Jews or non-Jews. The example from my discussion was a Jewish man that repeatedly rapes little children, without remorse as he knows that the members of the Chabad community would not report him." Chabad-Lubavitch members were with President Bush in the White House April 15 (see photo above). They enjoy high level protection from their crony, Michael Chertoff, Chief of Homeland Security, who is a long-time Chabad asset, along with "Shabbos Shomer" Attorney General Michael Mukasey.


(http://www.vosizneias.com/18474/2008/07/24/stamford-hill-london-%E2%80%93-williamsburg-controversial-activist-hackled-flees-to-get-police-protection/)

eternal_spirit
28-10-2008, 10:40 PM
Jewish gangsters in Russia have become increasingly linked to traffic in "white slaves" and prostitutes through Israel, according to a recent report in the Jerusalem Post. Israel turns an official blind eye to forced prostitution, and does not punish Israeli citizens who choose to own "sex slaves", as long as the slaves are foreign and non-Jews. The Russian Oligarchs/Gangtsers are Zionist Jews.

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-atrocities-blood-libel.html

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 10:41 PM
I have had my ration of Hatred for this day, time for some Love.

Toodle-o

kasalt
28-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Revelation 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=2&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."
-----
A question for you Snoopz:

Who are the true Jews?

One more question for you, Snoopz:

Who are the counterfeit Jews?

This would seem to me to be a crucial issue.

snoopsnuffleopagus
28-10-2008, 11:02 PM
ome back!! I'm Busy. :D

Kasalt, as my foremost Archivist, I would express my dissapointment that you cannot answer that yourself but I shall restrain myself until later.

I will relate this to you during the Festivus Ceremonys, when we express our disappointments.

Real Quick: The Yahdaim(People of YHWH) who live by every Word that proceeds from the Mouth of YHWH. The Laws and the Prophecy.

For purpose of specificty and clarity, they refer to the Laws of the Torah, no Talmud, no Kabalah,

Which means they are abiding by every Law of the Torah, sans Talmud and Kabalah.

I realise I've ONLY been posting this for a year and a half.

The word 'Jew' is artificial anyways, which is why I use the Terms that they were known as in ancient times.

Your question should read: Who are the True Yahdaim?

So it is those Yahdaim, who Fall Away from the Laws and Prophecy that form the Synagogue of Satan.

The Laws are explicit one is not to add to, take away from, or alter or modify the Laws. The Talmud and Kabalah are in conflict with the Laws.

This is why the Yahdaim have had so many problems. As far as I know, ALL xtianianity 'Does away with the Laws' so they likewise could be considered adversary to YHWH.

It's really not that complex. Good Wolf, Keeps the Laws of YHWH

Bad Wolf does not


The Children of Light keep the laws of YHWH


The Children of Darkness do not.



Satan means adversary, accuser

HaSatan is The Adversary, The Accuser


http://www.karaitejudaism.org/talks/Satan_and_the_Snake.htm


The Divine Council-Pecking Order

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

kasalt
28-10-2008, 11:21 PM
Real Quick: The Yahdaim(People of YHWH) who live by every Word that proceeds from the Mouth of YHWH. The Laws and the Prophecy.

For purpose of specificty and clarity, they refer to the Laws of the Torah, no Talmud, no Kabalah,

Which means they are abiding by every Law of the Torah, sans Talmud and Kabalah...

I appreciate the elaborate long-windedness of your replies, Snoopz, but the Cliff's Notes version will do. What about those Jews who, sans Talmud and Kabalah, are also sans Yahshua?

stelios
29-10-2008, 02:51 AM
Ken Livingstone?

i didnt know that
any sources?

jesuitsdidit
29-10-2008, 02:56 AM
im afraid u r really stretching the meaning of the words Zionism and create, i'll have to get back to you on this..

i should also add i dont think you are correct, but will deal with your point soon..

jesuitsdidit
29-10-2008, 03:05 AM
i should also add i dont think you are correct, but will deal with your point soon..

also it seems some people dont understand there are many factions amongst the jews,
not all jews are zionists
not all jews are pro- Israel

runciter
29-10-2008, 07:10 AM
So you think or believe that Talmudic Jews think its OK to rape Gentile Women down to the age of Three?


niet, i only believe that if it happens they will hardly punish the criminal.

runciter
29-10-2008, 07:11 AM
also it seems some people dont understand there are many factions amongst the jews,
not all jews are zionists
not all jews are pro- Israel

yes it is right.. and not all jews follow the sabbatean frankist satanic cult.

runciter
29-10-2008, 07:31 AM
Revelation 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=2&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."


i think it refers to the sabbatean frankist "heresy", not to ethnicity.

http://www.geocities.com/cliff_shack/shabbetai1.gif

Was the 17th Century Jewish Messiah, Shabbetai Tzvi, really an impostor as history would have us believe? He was acknowledged and proclaimed to be the Messiah by Nathan of Gaza,the only authentic, recognized Jewish prophet in the past 2500 years. He was accepted as the Messiah by the vast majority of World Jewry, that is, until he consented to convert to Islam when threatened with death by the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. Shabbatai Tzvi understood the conversion to be a sign from G-d that he needed to take his mission underground. In a letter to his brother he wrote, "G-d has made me a Turk."

Do people have the power to reject a messiah?

Did Shabtai Tzvi's "conversion" to Islam render him a messianic impostor or were those that rejected Shabbetai Tzvi rendered infidels with their rejection?

Did Shabbetai Tzvi have offspring? Yes. Where are they now? Where is this Messianic Dynasty? Have they vanished into obscurity? History leaves us no clues. Or does it? Perhaps Shabbatai did succeed in his messianic takeover of the planet. Perhaps his offspring did manage to fulfill the mission of their prophet-proclaimed Messiah father? I suggest that the family Rothschild are direct descendents of the messiah, Shabbatai Tzvi. Shabbatai Tzvi said that he would rebuild Israel. The Rothschilds did. He said that he would re-unite the lost tribes that had been spread out throughout the world. Has this been accomplished through the United Nations? Is the UN a project of hidden Rothschild influence designed to bring world peace? A Rothshild-Shabbatai Tzvi connection would also explain the Rothschilds' relationship to the mystical Jacob Frank, a co-creator of the Illuminati, who claimed to be the reincarnation of Shabbetai Tzvi. It would also explain the Rothschilds strange obsession with their bloodline and their custom of intermarrying amongst themselves. Was this practice determined to keep the royal messianic blood from assimilation? A Rothschildian/Messianic relationship would also explain their lavish and opulent lifestyle. Why shouldn't the direct descendants of the messiah live within the finest palaces on Earth?

It should therefore come as no surprise that there is a strong family resemblance between Shabbatai Tzvi and the Family Rothschild.

Scroll down

http://www.geocities.com/cliff_shack/shabbetai_rothschild.html

mynameis
29-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Effort aims to counter Christian Zionism
Glenn Koenig
Los Angeles Times

SPEAKER: The Rev. Gwynne Guibord, left, embraces Rabbi Haim Beliak at a Pasadena conference. “My religion and my Zionism have been hijacked by Christian Zionists and their Jewish friends,” Beliak said.
Association will distribute a brochure saying the movement fosters hatred of Muslims and opposition to Mideast peace. A movement leader says the brochure presents a stereotype of Christian Zionists.
By Nathan Olivarez-Giles
9:50 PM PDT, October 24, 2008
Before the year is up, nearly 45 million people will get more than a sermon at their churches -- they'll get a brochure titled "Why We Should Be Concerned About Christian Zionism."

The brochure says Christian Zionism "fosters fear and hatred of Muslims and non-Western Christians" and "can lead to the dehumanization of Israelis and Palestinians." Its distribution reflects the concerns of Christians who are trying to combat what they call the growing influence of Christian Zionism in the U.S.

* Christian Zionists
* During Sukkot holiday, Jews rejoice in God's bounty, protection
* Armenian clergy worldwide embark on a quest to collect holy oil
* Pope John Paul II's compassion for Jews on display at Skirball

"If we don't speak up against it -- Christian Zionism -- then people will think we don't care or that we agree with it," said the Rev. John Hubers, supervisor of mission programs in the Middle East and South Asia for the Reformed Church in America.

The Reformed Church in America is one of the 35 Christian church bodies that make up the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA, which wrote the brochure and began distributing it this month.

"To say we're dehumanizing Israelis and Palestinians with our support for Israel dehumanizes us," said David Brog, executive director of Christians United for Israel, one of the most prominent Christian Zionist organizations in the United States. The group was started in 2006 by controversial televangelist John Hagee, senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio.

But what exactly do Christian Zionists believe?

Christian Zionists say they believe that the creation of Israel was ordained by God.

Detractors say Christian Zionism fosters the belief that the return of Jews to Israel has fulfilled one of the steps that will set the stage for Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ to Earth. These detractors say Christian Zionists want to hasten that end time by promoting conflict in the Middle East.

About 20 million to 40 million people in the U.S. are Christian Zionists, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

The National Council of Churches includes more than 100,000 individual churches, made up of about 45 million churchgoers, and is hoping it can use its membership to curb the political and social influence of Christian Zionism, said Antonios Kireopoulos, the group's director of interfaith relations.

The brochure will be handed out in member churches.

As a resource for those churches, the council is also creating an analysis of parts of the Bible that Christian Zionists use to justify their views, he said.

"We have to wake up Christians," said the Rev. Gwynne Guibord, of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, also a member of the council.

"We have to show Christians and others that there is another way of looking at these things, a way that isn't so antithetical to who Jesus was," she said.

Guibord and other Christian and Jewish leaders in Southern California formed Christians Concerned About Christian Zionism, which held a conference on the issue Oct. 4.

The conference, "Christian Zionism: Rapture and the Holy Land, Theology and Politics," was held at Pasadena Presbyterian Church. Among its speakers was Rabbi Haim Beliak, who teaches at the Leo Baeck Temple in Los Angeles and spoke on the influence of Hagee and Christians United for Israel.

"My religion and my Zionism have been hijacked by Christian Zionists and their Jewish friends," Beliak said. "Most of us have the view that the outline for the possibility of peace has been sitting in a drawer ready to be implemented for at least 15 years, and most of us think Christian Zionism is an impediment toward peace in the Middle East."

Beliak said at the conference that Hagee and other Christian Zionist leaders are using Israel to further their own Armageddon agenda.

The brochure, which was passed out for the first time at the conference, says Christian Zionism leads to a conclusion that "involves the death of all non-Christians, including Jews, through apocalyptic warfare or divine judgment" and "is not based on traditional teaching or doctrines of the Church."

Brog said Christians United for Israel rejects the brochure.

"I would say the whole flier seems to me to be describing a stereotype of a Christian Zionist," Brog said. "There are some Christian Zionists who are opposed to the peace process in the Middle East, but that does not define a movement of millions of Christian people."

He said the group believes simply that Israel should make all decisions regarding its land use and peace effort -- not the U.S., Palestinians or anyone else.

"Once we start discussing how we go about supporting Israel is when the disagreements come in," he said. "When you get beyond that, there are lots of disagreements, and that's why we don't really speak about that."

As for the argument over Israel's status as political body or godly appointment, Brog said, there is room for disagreement.

"America is a shining city on the hill ordained by God. We have that tradition right here in America, and we do see Israel's promise in the Scripture," he said.

Brog said that one way the group urges the federal government to support Israel is through "A National Night for Israel," in which members of Christians United for Israel gather in Washington to meet with lawmakers. In 2007 about 3,000 members made the trip, he said.

Brog, who is Jewish, said that he's always felt "complete comfort" working with Christians United for Israel and that the group has the best interests of Israel and Jews at heart.

"I wish [the council] would be more fair and respectful of our teachings," he said. "If they have a problem with us, shouldn't they be the ones to invite us to a debate? We've never attacked the National Council of Churches, and I think it would be fair for them to start that dialogue if they really want it."

Brog said a debate might surprise those who oppose Christian Zionist beliefs.

"If we were sitting in a room together, we might find we don't disagree as much as they might think we would," he said.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beliefs25-2008oct25,0,2153443.story

eternal_spirit
29-10-2008, 06:13 PM
quote: snoopsnuffleopagus
As far as I know, ALL xtianianity 'Does away with the Laws' so they likewise could be considered adversary to YHWH.

It's really not that complex. Good Wolf, Keeps the Laws of YHWH

Bad Wolf does not


The Children of Light keep the laws of YHWH


The Children of Darkness do not.



Satan means adversary, accuser

For purpose of specificty and clarity, they refer to the Laws of the Torah, no Talmud, no Kabalah,

Which means they are abiding by every Law of the Torah, sans Talmud and Kabalah...


:rolleyes:
Remember snoops words above. Only Yahweh followers are right everyone else is wrong. This is the problem how many other sects/cults/groups and other religions say the same.

Jehova witnesses follow Yayweh too.

The Jews, also, are more open in admitting why the Masoretes hid the Name of God, a Name too sacred -- they believed -- for even Jews to pronounce, let alone heathen dogs. When you combine the Tetragrammaton with the vowels of "Adonai," you get a name "that cannot be pronounced!" Not because it is too holy, but because it is literally impossible to pronounce (in English it has been transliterated as "Jehovah")! Even today, Jews consider it perfectly appropriate to say and write the Name "Jehovah," as it is not considered the sacred pronounciation.
http://www.truthseek.net/tp.gifIn the most ancient Old Testament manuscripts, God's True Name is depicted as the Tetragrammaton, the four letters: "YHWH." You can still find these four letters in interlinear versions of the King James Version, or in Strong's. In the KJV, every time LORD is printed (in all captial letters, it is YHWH, Yahweh).

http://www.truthseek.net/tp.gifWhat follows is a compilation of varied sources on the Name of God, Yahweh.



http://www.truthseek.net/Yahweh.html

And Kabbalah is to do with Yahweh.

Deadly Fruit of Kabbalah (http://watch.pair.com/fruit.html)

attacked them with a hammer outside his tiny basement apartment in Borough Park. On that hammer, Mr. Busch, 31, a deeply religious man who prayed so loudly the neighbors complained, had carved the four Hebrew letters signifying the name of God.(YHWH)
"The sum of all ten sephiroth is called YHWH. .... The earliest documents (100- 1000 A.D.) associated with Kabbalah describe the attempts of "Merkabah" ..."
watch.pair.com/fruit.html

eternal_spirit
29-10-2008, 07:00 PM
Okay I'm done. My point was to show the hypocrisy of some Jews.

http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic
Ancient Semitic peoples

The following is a list of ancient Semitic peoples.


Akkadians (http://www.answers.com/topic/akkad) — appear 4th millennium BC and amalgamate (http://www.answers.com/topic/amalgamation) with non-Semitic Mesopotamian (Sumerian) populations into the Assyrians (http://www.answers.com/topic/assyrian-people) and Babylonians of the late Bronze Age[1] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-0)[2] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-1)

Assyrians (http://www.answers.com/topic/assyrian-people) (Aššūrāyu) — 27th century BC[3] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-2)

Babylonians (http://www.answers.com/topic/babylonia) — 18th century BC[citation needed]

Chaldeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/chaldea) (Kaldu) — 8th to 6th c. BC[4] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-3)[5] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-4)






Eblaites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ebla) — 23rd century BC
Akhlames (http://www.answers.com/topic/akhlam) 14th century[6] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-5)

Aramaeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/aramaeans) — 16th to 8th century BC[7] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-6)[8] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-7)


Ugarites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ugarit), 14th to 12th centuries BC
Canaanite language (http://www.answers.com/topic/canaanite-languages) speaking nations of the early Iron Age:

Amorites (http://www.answers.com/topic/amorite)
Ammonites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ammon-1)
Edomites (http://www.answers.com/topic/edom)
Hebrews (http://www.answers.com/topic/hebrew) — founded the kingdom of Israel and Judah (http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-ancient-israel-and-judah), the remnants of which became the Jews (http://www.answers.com/topic/jew)
Moabites (http://www.answers.com/topic/moab)
Phoenicians (http://www.answers.com/topic/phoenicia) — founded Mediterranean colonies including Carthage (http://www.answers.com/topic/carthage)


Old South Arabian (http://www.answers.com/topic/old-south-arabian) speaking peoples

Sabaeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/sabaean) of Yemen — 9th to 1st c. BC
Aksumites (http://www.answers.com/topic/aksumite-empire) — 4th c. BC to 7th c. AD


Arabs (http://www.answers.com/topic/arab), Old North Arabian (http://www.answers.com/topic/ancient-north-arabian) speaking Bedouins (http://www.answers.com/topic/bedouin)

Lihyanites (http://www.answers.com/topic/lihyan) — 6th to 1st c. BC
Thamud (http://www.answers.com/topic/thamud) people — 2nd to 5th c. AD
Ghassanids (http://www.answers.com/topic/ghassanids) — 3rd to 7th c. AD
Nabataeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/nabataean) — adopted Arabic in the 4th century AD

eternal_spirit
30-10-2008, 10:38 PM
I can spot the lies and the truth amongst this lot, because I've done the research. And I'm sure some others here have too. EDIT - Icke wrote much truth on these topics.

From Green Messiah to New Age Nazi
by Matthew Kalman and John Murray

Matthew Kalman and John Murray are editors of the eco-political investigative magazine Open Eye, which has been uncovering and exposing David Icke and "New Age Nazism."

It has been hard in recent years to ignore the rising popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, and self-improvement, as well as an array of New Age therapies, have all gained in popularity, as have other fringe interests like UFOs and the paranormal, which often appeal to the same people. Few will have avoided at least some contact.

The movement even has its own stars. In Britain, David Icke, the TV sports commentator turned Green Party national spokesman turned purple-robed "Son of God," is the best-known leader. [See "British Green Party Cofounder Icke Goes New Age," Green Perspectives, no. 24, October 1991.] His books sell fast, and he pulls in the crowds as a charismatic speaker on a hectic schedule of speaking engagements and workshops. Though many see him as a figure of fun, his popularity is undimmed.

Icke has led a public life: from goalkeeper for the Coventry City and Hereford United teams, he then moved on to the BBC as a sports commentator. He later became national spokesperson for the Green Party before "resigning" in 1990, declaring himself to be "a Son of the Godhead," wearing turquoise, and predicting catastrophic geological upheaval. His latest incarnation is more sinister.

In the summer of 1994 Icke wrote The Robots’ Rebellion: The Story of the Spiritual Renaissance, a book which indicated a convergence of New Age thinking with Nazi philosophy. Casting aside his pat concerns about the environment, Icke enthusiastically embraced the classic Nazi conspiracy theory, alleging that the world is controlled by a secret cadre of "The Elite." He openly endorsed the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the tsarist anti-Semitic forgery that informed Hitler’s notion of a global Jewish conspiracy.

Icke seems oblivious to the fact that the Protocols were long ago exposed as a crude device to stir up hatred of Jews. Nor is he concerned about their popularity with Nazis from Hitler onwards. "Just because Hitler used knowledge for negative reasons doesn't reflect on the knowledge," says Icke.

The Robots’ Rebellion weaves a complex tapestry of extreme right-wing concerns about conspiracies to control the world through such diverse means as banking, the New World Order, freemasons, the FBI, the Waco siege, microchips, extraterrestrials, and gun control.

The anti-Semitism of the book is not concealed. Icke accuses Jewish bankers of funding both Hitler and the Bolsheviks,a classic piece of far-right propaganda. He attacks "Jehovah, the vengeful God of the Jews," as "quite possibly an extraterrestrial." He is unabashed in sourcing his material back to leading U.S. right-wing militia figures such as Bill Cooper, who believes in a UFO/world government conspiracy that includes aliens both good and bad: "blond Aryans" and large-nosed "Greys."

Unfortunately, the publication of The Robots’ Rebellion aroused very little criticism of Icke, although many Green Party members began to realize the danger that their one-time figurehead now represented. Some began to picket meetings, with other antifascists later following their lead.

Now Icke has published a new book, . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free [Cambridge: Bridge of Love, 1995], which brings his anti-Semitic ideas to a chilling conclusion.

Following an Open Eye investigation and the resulting negative publicity, Icke’s publisher, Gateway, refused to handle the new book. Icke has been forced to produce it himself, with financial backing from a Jewish supporter named David Solomon. The book contains a desperate plea to readers to help sell copies.

Icke’s basic thesis is that "almost every major negative event of global significance has been part of the same long-term plan by the All-Seeing Eye cult to take over the planet via a centralized world government, central bank, currency and army." Although Icke uses terms like Illuminati and Brotherhood to describe this elite, their true identity soon becomes apparent. "There is a global Jewish clique," he writes, who "worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War. This . . . elite secured the Balfour Declaration and the principle of the Jewish state of Israel in Palestine."

Icke says that, "given the genetic history of most Jewish people," the Jews have no claim to Israel. This is a common argument among the far right, some of whom believe that the Anglo-Saxons of northern Europe are the true descendants of the "lost tribes of Israel." Just in case readers have any doubts, Icke explains that the "Israeli government, its army, and its intelligence arm, Mossad, are neo-Nazi, terrorist organizations."

Further revelations from Icke include the news that the same Jewish clique "financed Hitler to power in 1933," and that an "Estonian Jew," Nazi party ideologue Alfred Rosenberg, gave Hitler a copy of the Protocols, thereby sealing the fate of the Jews by encouraging Hitler to embark on the Holocaust. Rosenberg was not, of course, Jewish but a viciously anti-Semitic Baltic German. In the meantime bankers like Max Warburg had already left Nazi Germany. "All this was coldly calculated by the ‘Jewish’ elite," says Icke. The elite is "merciless . . . sick and diabolical," as well as being controlled by the "Luciferic Consciousness."

As if the suggestion that Jews orchestrated the Holocaust were not enough, Icke also condemns the Nuremberg trials. "Nuremberg was an insult to natural justice," he sputters. He condemns the practice whereby free copies of Schindler’s List "are given to schools to indoctrinate children." This is because Icke, like other neo-Nazis before him, has decided that the murder of six million Jews in the Holocaust is a myth.

He urges his readers to take Holocaust revisionism seriously and, without giving his name, describes and praises the French founding father of Holocaust revisionism, Paul Rassinier—a one-time French Resistance fighter who was himself incarcerated in a concentration camp. "You cannot, if you are interested in truth, just dismiss his findings and condemn him as a Nazi apologist," says Icke. "But that is what happened to him and others too."

What exactly are the views of Rassinier? He denies the existence of death camps and rubbishes the reports of survivors as "a collection of contradictory pieces of ill-natured gossip." Rassinier contends that the gas chambers are an invention of the "Zionist establishment." Why is it that the rest of us, including the Nazi perpetrators themselves, are so sure that the Holocaust did indeed happen? "The Jews have been able to dupe the world by relying on their mythic powers and conspiratorial abilities," says Rassinier. "World Jewry has once again employed its inordinate powers to harness the world’s financial resources, media and political interests for their own purposes."

Challenged about his endorsement of these Nazi apologists, Icke’s wife Linda dares to say things that her husband has not yet committed to print. While the book’s discussion of the Holocaust merely asserts tha the Revisionist version should at least be heard, Mrs. Icke denigrates the fact of the Holocaust itself. "We’ve had the figures come down from six million to two," she claims, citing unnamed "Jewish" sources. "We’ve had a lifetime of one view and one story. Maybe if all things were laid out on the table the truth might come out, whatever it is."

Icke promises that "much, much more" is yet to be revealed about the Holocaust. A flavor of what might be forthcoming is contained in a striking passage purporting to explain anti-Semitism. Like many neo-Nazis, Icke goes out of his way to deny being anti-Semitic, claiming that he is merely criticizing a "manipulating Jewish clique" who regard the mass of Jews as "cattle to be used and abused as required" in their quest for world domination.

"The Jewish people (who, like the rest of us, are evolving consciousnesses that happen to be working in a Jewish genetics spacesuit at this point), will never be free until they step out of the emotional and mental control of this tiny clique, which uses them in the most merciless ways to advance its own sick and diabolical ambitions."

Following a common Nazi thread which goes back to Hitler, Icke blames the Jews themselves for anti-Semitism. "Thought patterns in the collective Jewish mind have repeatedly created that physical reality of oppression, prejudice and racism which matches the pattern—the expectation—programmed into their collective psyche. They expect it; they create it."

For Further Reading . . .

In the light of the book’s content, it will come as little surprise that the further reading recommended in the back pages of . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free includes neo-Nazi and racist literature. One favorite source is the "excellent" Spotlight, an anti-Semitic tabloid published in the United States that promotes Holocaust denial as a major theme.

Icke also recommends On Target, the magazine of the British League of Rights, a racist group committed to preventing the immigration of "alien peoples" and maintaining a "homogenous" (read: whites only) society. Its editor, Donald Martin, also contributes to Spearhead, the organ of the National Front now controlled by the British National Party. Martin, whom the BNP regards as a "friend and ally," runs Britain's leading book-supply service for the extreme right. Among the seven hundred or so titles are Did Six Million Really Die?, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and Henry Ford's The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem.

Donald Martin now appears to be using Icke and others in the New Age movement as fronts to soft-sell his hard anti-Semitism. As far right-watcher Larry O’Hara points out, "Icke is in many ways a more dangerous figure than Holocaust Revisionist David Irving, for he has the capacity to entice new people onto the anti-Semitic treadmill."

The neo-Nazis have certainly picked up on Icke. Street-fighting group Combat 18 have mingled with New Agers at Icke’s lectures and favorably reviewed one of his appearances in their bulletin, Putsch.

Though Icke has now largely dropped his New Age and green message, his supporters have yet to desert him. . . . And the Truth Shall Set You Free sold out its initial print run of 4,000 in just two and a half weeks, good going for a book that has—thankfully—been sold mainly by mail order so far. The glossy New Age magazines Kindred Spirit and Vision, widely available at on newsstands, continue to promote Icke’s work.

New Age Magazines

Nexus, an Australia-based New Age/conspiracy magazine that Icke commends as "excellent," has carried extracts of Holocaust Revisionism articles from Spotlight. It recently published a four-part history of banking that identified Hitler and Mussolini as the last two people who could have stopped the usurious bankers.

The magazine, which is hoping to build on its current 130,000-plus circulation with a special British edition due out this month, carries regular advertisements for catalogues of neo-Nazi publications and videos.

Closer to home, David Icke is not alone in pushing extreme right-wing and racist ideas within the New Age movement. The London-based magazine Rainbow Ark has a New Age appearance but has long been closely associated with both David Icke and Donald Martin, who has written articles under a pseudonym as well as lecturing at meetings organized by the magazine. Articles in Rainbow Ark attack Jewish bankers, the "Illuminati," and Zionism. The magazine also has a strange theory about modern Israel:

"When a person has a strong hatred of another race, their higher self often (karmically) makes sure they incarnate in that race to balance them out. Thus many of the worst kind of Nazis have already incarnated in Jewish bodies, explaining therefore some of the fireworks which are going on and will go on in Israel."

Investigations by Open Eye have revealed that Rainbow Ark has been funded by people with a long history of extreme right and racist activity and was initially based in the apartment of Mary Stanton, a prominent racist campaigner who had previously lent it out to the National Front for an election campaign. When Rainbow Ark held a public meeting at the Battlebridge New Age center in Kings Cross on September 13, a Jewish researcher who attended was physically assaulted by a Rainbow Ark editor. The researcher was mistakenly accused of helping with an exposé by Open Eye of "New Age Nazism. [See Matthew Kalman and John Murray, "New Age Nazism," New Statesman and Society, June 23, 1995.]

Despite the assault, Rainbow Ark continues to hold public meetings at the Battlebridge Center, which was originally set up to help homeless people. When the center’s organizer Julie Lowe was asked about Rainbow Ark, she explained that she believed that the Jewish conspiracy described in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is true and ought to be investigated. "I met two old Jewish men at Hyde Park Corner one evening who told me they were true," says Lowe. "They were saying that if they didn’t get their way in the things they wanted, they were able through Philadelphia in America to pull the money out of every city in the world.

"I’ve seen it happen in Sheffield, so I believe it. It depends who’s actually doing the controlling and who’s go the money. The connection between freemasonry and Jewry is very important."

Nor are the deluded management of the Battlebridge Center the only people to welcome Icke and give him a platform. During a twenty-minute interview on BBC Greater London Radio on October 15, 1995, publicizing his new book, Icke was given free rein to describe the global conspiracy and how he was now addressing audiences of up to three hundred a night who no longer come to laugh at him but to really listen.

eternal_spirit
30-10-2008, 10:42 PM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5291275/Ar...ild-David-Icke (http://www.scribd.com/doc/5291275/Are-Hitler-Rothschild-David-Icke)

Article by Icke - Hitler a Rothschild.

eternal_spirit
31-10-2008, 04:56 PM
Wow the silence is stunning. Icke writes about the same topics as some of us. Which would make him a racist neo Nazi in some people's deluded minds. Oh well the hypocrisy is rife. (I'd be a rich man by now if I had a £ for every time I'd been called a Nazi/racist)

lizzy
31-10-2008, 05:19 PM
Wow the silence is stunning. Icke writes about the same topics as some of us. Which would make him a racist neo Nazi in some people's deluded minds. Oh well the hypocrisy is rife. (I'd be a rich man by now if I had a £ for every time I'd been called a Nazi/racist)

yes, eternal.....ths is true.....Icke's research and Headlines pages are full of excellent material, much of it , especially his older material backs up most of what you post..........it is partly what keeps me here, little by little.....

This is just some todays' / yesterdays' articles Icke submitted..........

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m48397&hd=&size=1&l=e

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17392

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1081624/Goldman-Sachs-ready-hand-7BILLION-salary-bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.html

http://www.noonehastodietomorrow.com/occult/media/443?task=view

lizzy
31-10-2008, 05:40 PM
Okay I'm done. My point was to show the hypocrisy of some Jews.

http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic
Ancient Semitic peoples

The following is a list of ancient Semitic peoples.


Akkadians (http://www.answers.com/topic/akkad) — appear 4th millennium BC and amalgamate (http://www.answers.com/topic/amalgamation) with non-Semitic Mesopotamian (Sumerian) populations into the Assyrians (http://www.answers.com/topic/assyrian-people) and Babylonians of the late Bronze Age[1] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-0)[2] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-1)

Assyrians (http://www.answers.com/topic/assyrian-people) (Aššūrāyu) — 27th century BC[3] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-2)

Babylonians (http://www.answers.com/topic/babylonia) — 18th century BC[citation needed]

Chaldeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/chaldea) (Kaldu) — 8th to 6th c. BC[4] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-3)[5] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-4)






Eblaites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ebla) — 23rd century BC
Akhlames (http://www.answers.com/topic/akhlam) 14th century[6] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-5)

Aramaeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/aramaeans) — 16th to 8th century BC[7] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-6)[8] (http://www.answers.com/topic/semitic#wp-_note-7)


Ugarites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ugarit), 14th to 12th centuries BC
Canaanite language (http://www.answers.com/topic/canaanite-languages) speaking nations of the early Iron Age:

Amorites (http://www.answers.com/topic/amorite)
Ammonites (http://www.answers.com/topic/ammon-1)
Edomites (http://www.answers.com/topic/edom)
Hebrews (http://www.answers.com/topic/hebrew) — founded the kingdom of Israel and Judah (http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-ancient-israel-and-judah), the remnants of which became the Jews (http://www.answers.com/topic/jew)
Moabites (http://www.answers.com/topic/moab)
Phoenicians (http://www.answers.com/topic/phoenicia) — founded Mediterranean colonies including Carthage (http://www.answers.com/topic/carthage)


Old South Arabian (http://www.answers.com/topic/old-south-arabian) speaking peoples

Sabaeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/sabaean) of Yemen — 9th to 1st c. BC
Aksumites (http://www.answers.com/topic/aksumite-empire) — 4th c. BC to 7th c. AD


Arabs (http://www.answers.com/topic/arab), Old North Arabian (http://www.answers.com/topic/ancient-north-arabian) speaking Bedouins (http://www.answers.com/topic/bedouin)

Lihyanites (http://www.answers.com/topic/lihyan) — 6th to 1st c. BC
Thamud (http://www.answers.com/topic/thamud) people — 2nd to 5th c. AD
Ghassanids (http://www.answers.com/topic/ghassanids) — 3rd to 7th c. AD
Nabataeans (http://www.answers.com/topic/nabataean) — adopted Arabic in the 4th century AD




http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_on_Sweet_Liberty_May302005.html

SAME people, different places,names and times , right up to today.........

eternal_spirit
31-10-2008, 08:25 PM
Interesting links Lizzy thanks.

First time I've seen this site here

http://ziopedia.org/

Shlomo Sand’s book on the invention of the Jewish people is selling like hotcakes in Israel. Apparently the Jews just love reading how the anti-semites are right-if they are told so by a Jewish author. Sand, unlike some Jewish scholars, firmly believes in the ancient accounts of a mass Khazar conversion to Judaism. He also discounts the number of German Jews moving east. The ancient Khazar capitol of Ityl has now been discovered in south Russia. What it may disclose about the Jewishness of the Khazars remains to be determined. Whether the Jews are the descendants of the tribes of ancient Palestine, Berber converts in North Africa or the progeny of a Central Asiatic Turkic tribe is an interesting question. But the more fundamental question is whether Jews are an international brotherhood which transcends international borders hiding behind their religion. The evidence strongly suggests that they do. But that is a question which even Shlomo Sand will not touch.

mynameis
02-11-2008, 04:52 PM
GERMANY 2000-1



The electoral decline of Germany’s three extreme right-wing parties in 2000 was in marked contrast to the growing attraction of far right individuals and groups who incite to violence. Moreover, their potential to commit violence increased drastically. The dramatic increase in antisemitic acts in the last quarter of 2000 by both radical Islamists and right-wing extremists was largely attributable to the impact of the al-Aqsa intifada in Germany. The number of websites operated by German right-wing extremists rose to 800 compared with 330 in 1999. The increasing radicalism of the NPD has raised the discussion about banning this party to the top of the public agenda.

THE JEWISH COMMUNITY

The Jewish community has more than doubled since 1989, when mass immigration of Jews from the former Soviet Union began, and is now about 100,000. The largest Jewish centers are Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg, but Jewish communities are active in most other large cities. Very few of the German Jews who survived World War II or their descendents returned to Germany.

The weekly Allgemeine Jüdische Wochenzeitung is the most prominent of a number of publications which serve the needs of Jews in Germany. The Zentralrat, the umbrella organization of German Jewry, has moved its headquarters to Berlin.

In November 2000, Germany’s first rabbinical school since the Holocaust was established in Potsdam. The Abraham Geiger Rabbinical College is affiliated with the Jewish Studies Center at the University of Potsdam, and is only the second rabbinical seminary in continental Europe. In September 2001, the new Jewish Museum in Berlin, housed in a building designed by architect Daniel Liesbeskind, was opened.

POLITICAL PARTIES AND EXTRA-PARLIAMENTARY GROUPS

In 2000 the estimated number of extreme right activists (members of political parties as well as extra-parliamentary groups) rose only slightly, from 50,400 in 1999 to 50,900. According to the security authorities, however, their potential to commit violence had increased drastically.

Political Parties

There was a decline in the electoral achievements of the three main extreme right parties in 2000. This is in marked contrast to the growing attraction of violence among far right individuals and groups (see below). While not always expressed openly, all three parties remain xenophobic and antisemitic in their outlook.

The Deutsche Volksunion (German Peoples’ Union – DVU), led by the millionaire publisher Dr. Gerhard Frey, has been the most successful in the polls in recent years and is currently represented in both the Saxony-Anhalt and Brandenburg state legislatures. Founded in 1987, the DVU is today the largest extreme right-wing political party in Germany, with about 17,000 members. Its chairman provides the funds required to organize expensive propaganda campaigns (see ASW 1989/9). Its organ, the weekly National-Zeitung/Deutsche Wochenzeitung, has a circulation of 45,000. Xenophobia, antisemitism, questioning the Holocaust and National Socialist (NS) apologetics (“Was Hitler the only one responsible for the outbreak of World War II?”) are important components of their ideology. Besides Norman Finkelstein’s controversial Holocaust Industry (see below), books offered for sale on the DVU homepage include Helden der Wehrmacht (Heroes of the Wehrmacht), KZ-Lügen (KZ-Lies), Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht (Crimes against the Wehrmacht), Die Wehrmacht als Befreierin (The Wehrmacht as Liberator), and Freispruch für Deutschland (Verdict Not Guilty for Germany).

In 1964 Adolf von Thadden, Friedrich Thielen and Waldemar Schütz founded the Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands (German National Democratic Party – NPD), which had some brief electoral gains in the 1970s. Under Udo Voigt – who has been a member of the party since 1968 (when he was 16-years-old) and became chairman in 1996 – the party began attracting young skinheads and neo-Nazis and focused its activities in the former GDR. Most members are now under 30.

In the year 2000, party membership rose from 6,000 to 6,500. Approximately 1,000 of the 6,500 members are from Saxony (former GDR), where the party is represented in several local councils. Ideologically, the NPD stands for a “German völkisch socialism,” which it promotes through the dissemination of anti-capitalist and anti-Western slogans “against globalization and European Union dictatorship.”

The NPD and its youth organization Junge Nationaldemokraten (JN; see below) have been classified by the Federal Office for the Defense of the Constitution (BfV – Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz) as a threat to democratic values. Since 1998 they have intensified their struggle to mobilize the street. Most of the violent demonstrations which took place throughout Germany in 2000 were organized by the NPD or the JN. Their aim is to enlarge the “NAPO” – Nationale Ausser- parlamentarische Opposition (National Extra-Parliamentary Opposition).

Lawyer Horst Mahler, a former left-wing activist of the Rote Armee Fraktion (Red Army Faction – RAF), joined the NPD in August 2000 and was appointed to handle its defense during the debate over banning the party (see below). Mahler himself was expelled from the professional association of lawyers of Berlin in February because of his racist and antisemitic activities, but is still able to practice law.

The NPD organ, Deutsche Stimme, has a circulation of about 10,000, while its Internet site has become the party’s electronic mouthpiece, providing links to the 15 NPD state (lander) organizations, the online edition of Deutsche Stimme and the neo-Nazi news service Nachrichten-Informationen-Theorie (NIT).

According to the BfV, membership of the NPD youth organization, Junge Nationaldemokraten (JN), founded in 1969, rose from 350 to 500 in 2000. Der Aktivist, the JN organ, sells 1,000 copies per edition. The NPD has close links to right-wing extremists and neo-Nazi organizations worldwide (for its relationship to the FPÖ, see Austria), including to the US National Alliance leader William Pierce. Proceedings to ban the party have been initiated by the federal government (see below).

The Republikaner (REPS), founded in 1983 by former CSU member and Waffen-SS officer Franz Schönhuber, was successful at the polls in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Since the party’s electoral decline, the REPS have tried to move closer to the political mainstream. Under the slogan “Socialist – Patriotic – Ecologic,” they try to present a respectable façade, dissociating themselves from extremists such as the NPD and DVU and officially repudiating violence. Rolf Schlierer has been chairman of the party since 1994.

Some 13,000 members were registered in 2000 compared with 14,000 in 1999. The youth organization is the Republikaner Jugend (RJ). The REPS use the Internet extensively, and their website provides links to the FPÖ as well as to the Partei für die Einheit Tirols (Party for Unity of the Tyrol). Der Republikaner, the party organ, with a circulation of 20,000 copies, also appears online. Subjects treated include the struggle against the Euro, which allegedly threatens Germany’s economy and society, opposition to the erection of a Holocaust memorial and the party’s campaign to build a memorial for German victims of World War II.

Extra-parliamentary Groups

Although there is still uncertainty about the existence of a far right terrorist infrastructure in Germany, the number of militant right-wing extremists has doubled since 1994. Since 1995 there have been intense efforts to organize extreme right Freie Kameradschaften (free associations). With no apparent centralized structure, they maintain close contact mainly via the Internet. Over 150 such Kameradschaften exist nationwide.

The BfV differentiates between “neo-Nazis” and “right-wing extremists with a propensity to violence.” In its 2000 report, the BfV calculated that the first group numbered about 2,200 and the second 9,700 (compared to 9,000 in 1999), mostly “extremist right-wing skinheads” who were ready to use violence to achieve their aims. At the end of 2000, 144 (134 in 1999) extreme right-wing groups were registered by theau.

In addition to a steep rise in extreme right-wing manifestations, one of the most serious problems of contemporary Germany, especially east Germany, is the growing acceptability of far right-wing opinions. A survey of young people’s attitudes carried out by the Forsa Institute demonstrated this regional divide: 47 percent of 14–25-year-old east Germans found something positive in Nazi ideology compared to 35 percent of young west Germans. Right-wing views seem to be particularly strong among east German high school students: 61 percent think there are too many foreigners, 62 percent that there was some good in Nazism and 15 percent that the Nazi ideology is “in itself a good idea.” Forty-six per cent of east Germans surveyed said there were too many foreigners in Germany, compared with 40 percent of west Germans. The Forsa Institute also revealed that at least one out of ten Germans favors right-wing ideologies and that 37 percent in the east and 22 percent in the west were prejudiced against foreigners.

Extreme Right Violence

For the past ten years, the BfV and the justice authorities have been concerned by signs of an increasing readiness on the part of extreme right-wing activists to use violent means to achieve their aims or to disseminate their message. Since German reunification in 1990, over 100 people have died as a result of right-wing terror.

As in previous years, the president of BfV warned in 2000 of the growing capability of right-wing extremist groups to carry out major terrorist acts. Weapons and explosives, many of which were supplied through foreign contacts or stolen from the Bundeswehr (German army), were confiscated by the police from the homes of far right militants and neo-Nazis. These included (according to the BfV) small-bore rifles, machine guns, pipe-bombs and equipment for laying bombs. According to a report of the BKA (Federal Criminal Office) in 2000, the German far right maintains contacts in more than 40 countries, thus facilitating the transport and production of weapons as well as propaganda material, illegal sound carriers and literature from abroad.

In 2000 the total number of extreme right-wing crimes reported reached 15,951 compared to 10,037 in 1999. This number includes 998 violent incidents (746 in 1999), a peak since World War II. Until July 2000 a decrease in numbers was expected. However, a bomb attack in Dusseldorf on 27 July (see below) inspired many imitators. Also, public discussion concerning the banning of extreme right-wing parties, particularly the NPD (see below), stirred up extreme right feelings. In autumn, the outbreak of the al-Aqsa intifada (see General Analysis) encouraged militant right-wingers to exploit anti-Jewish sentiment to increase their activities. At the end of 2000 there was a rise of 58 percent in right-wing crimes, mostly directed against foreigners and Jews, while violent crimes motivated by extreme right-wing sympathizers increased by 33.8 percent compared to the previous year.

Neo-Nazi violence against immigrants was highlighted by the murder in June of Alberto Adriano, a Mozambique-born German citizen, in the east German town of Dessau. It should be noted that a high percentage of xenophobic attacks took place in the east. Whole areas of eastern towns have been declared “nationally liberated zones” and some schools are terrorized by extreme right activists.

Parades

Parades of extreme right-wing members through the streets of German cities have become a relatively common sight. The Saxonian capital Dresden has turned into a parade center for young and old Nazis: nine pro-Nazi demonstrations took place there in 2000. Although frequently met by anti-fascist counter-demonstrations, police troops or even forbidden by court order, activists of the extreme right, in particular those incited by the NPD youth organization, strive to maximize their presence on the streets. Together with the JN, the NPD alone succeeded in mobilizing skinheads and neo-Nazis in over 50 demonstrations in 2000.

For the first time since 1945, on 29 January 2000, two days after the official Holocaust Day and the eve of the 67th anniversary of Adolf Hitler’s assumption of office, neo-Nazis staged a march through Berlin’s historic Brandenburg Gate, the traditional parade route of Hitler’s NSDAP. The occasion for the demonstration was the official laying of a foundation stone at the site of the Berlin Holocaust memorial – that “monument of shame in the center of Berlin,” according to Voigt – near the Reichstag building. Some 700 neo-Nazis distributed Nazi propaganda and chanted racist and antisemitic slogans, such as “No cash for memorials,” “Jobs instead of Jewish agitation” and “Holocaust? Don’t let them take the piss out of you.” Although officially organized by the NPD, it was noticeable that the militant Gesinnungs-gemeinschaft der Neuen Front (GdNF), an umbrella organization of neo-Nazi groups, was in fact controlling the event, which was led by Christian Worch, Thomas Wulff and Oliver Schweigert, all leading figures of the GdNF.

Infiltration of the Army

An increasing number of neo-Nazis are joining the Bundeswehr. Their aim is to receive military training and to recruit activists and sympathizers from among the ranks of young soldiers. An increase of 45 percent in right-wing incidents in the army registered in 2000, has alarmed the authorities. According to an opinion poll conducted by the Sinus Trend 2000 Institute, 16 percent of potential army volunteers identify with extreme right-wing parties, notably the NPD and the DVU.

Infiltration of Prisons

According to Bernd Wagner, a leading authority on the German extreme right, neo-Nazis have developed an elaborate prisoner-support network in east German jails aimed at recruiting activists. “The prisons are running the risk of discharging more neo-Nazis than they admit,” he warned. Brandenburg’s justice minister concedes that virtually every jail there contains a hard core of young neo-Nazi offenders who see themselves as political prisoners with a mission to convert other inmates.

Extreme right-wing inmates are assisted from outside by the neo-Nazi Support Association for National Prisoners (known by its German initials HNG), which provides them with access to lawyers, propaganda materials and help in recruiting others. The HNG (see ASW 1998/9) has developed into one of the largest neo-Nazi organizations in Germany. One of its leaders is the Berlin lawyer Wolfgang Narrath, formerly head of the outlawed neo-Nazi Viking Youth organization. The HNG’s recruitment tactics include a pen-pal scheme, which enables neo-Nazis to keep in touch with young inmates. The HNG publish HNG-News and have increased their activities on the Internet.

ANTISEMITIC ACTIVITIES AND HATE PROPAGANDA

While during the first quarter of the year 2000, 140 antisemitic incidents were reported, the number in the last quarter more than tripled. The total number for the year amounted to 1,378 – an almost 70 percent rise compared to the previous year – according to the official report of the Ministry of Interior. The dramatic increase during the last quarter is due in large part to the al-Aqsa intifada which inspired radical Islamists to anti-Jewish acts and served as a catalyst for extreme right-wing antisemites (see General Analysis).

Violence, Vandalism and Threats

An analysis of violent antisemitic attacks in 2000 reveals that the outbreak of the al-Aqsa intifada coincided with traditional action days of the extreme right, with the Jewish High Holy Days (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur), and with the anniversaries of German unification on 3 October and the Reichskristallnacht on 9 November. Common anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist feelings seem to have temporarily united radical Islamists and extreme right-wingers who, in general, are located in opposing camps.

Shortly before Yom Kippur, a crowd of about 100 Palestinian and Lebanese demonstrators tried to storm the Old Synagogue in the German city of Essen, today a Jewish museum and Holocaust memorial center. German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer instantly condemned the attack and declared that Germany woulnot permit institutions to be targets of violence. Other incidents during October 2000 included violent attacks on synagogues in Dusseldorf and Berlin and desecration of cemeteries, as well as threats and fake letter bombs addressed to representatives of the Jewish communities. On 27 July 2000 ten persons were injured, six of them Jews, when the Wehrhahn railway station in Dusseldorf was bombed.

Throughout the year Jewish cemeteries were once again the main targets of right-wing extremists throughout Germany. These included the cemeteries of Göttingen, Erfurt, Guben, Georgsmund, Hanover, Hillersleben, Uckermunde, Anklam, Eberswalde, Potsdam, Leipzig, Grabow, Saarbruecken and Solms. According to Prof. Julius Schoeps, director of the Moses Mendelson Center of the University of Potsdam, an average of two to three Jewish cemeteries are desecrated per week. This is three times higher than the official number released by the BfV for 2000 – 54 for the whole year (47 in 1999).

Synagogues and Holocaust memorials were also the targets of extreme right violence. The Erfurt synagogue, for example, was torched on 20 April, the anniversary of Hitler’s birthday. Since 1945 Jewish cemeteries and property have been damaged on more than 1,000 occasions.

Young Jewish soccer players were the target of several antisemitic attacks in 2000. At the end of August an 18-year-old player from the Frankfurt TuS Maccabia was physically assaulted and insulted with the words “Schwein Jude” (Jewish swine). In October insults were also hurled at other young players of the club; these included: “You are on Schindler’s list” and “We want to see you burned.” In Niederwisel, stones were thrown at Maccabi players.

Propaganda

Hate through Music. The music scene is an important means of disseminating extreme right propaganda and recruiting sympathizers among the young. The Internet offers a range of music for downloading, including the Horst-Wessel-Lied, Black Metal music and neo-Nazi–skinhead music of the Blood & Honour group, which is forbidden in Germany. Also available is the music of the “national bard,” Frank Rennike, a former member of the banned Viking Youth. The music, offered in digital form, is of CD quality.

Skinhead music is aggressive and often serves as a means of indoctrination. The oldest German neo-Nazi website Thulenet offers access to forbidden (indiziert) music through the link “Liable to penalty.” The groups are called Kraftschlag, Kraft und Ehre (Power and Honor), Klansmen, No Remorse, Neo Hate and Rahowa (the slogan of the White Power movement, short for “Racial Holy War”).

Production of White Power music flourishes, both on and off the Internet. A central figure is Torsten Lemmer. A former REP, he took over the management of the Nazi skinhead band Stoerkraft. The music label RockNord serves both as the name of a mail-order business for badges, flags, CDs and T-shirts, and a Nazi-skin-music magazine.

In December, 2000 it was widely reported that many illegal neo-Nazi music titles, inciting to murder, were being traded on the Internet music exchange Napster. The German media enterprise Bertelsmann, a new partner of Napster condemned this abuse. The neo-Nazi volume “Macht und Ehre,” for example, instigates a second extermination of the Jews. The text of the lyric of “The Eternal Jew” reads: “Auschwitz, Dachau and Buchenwald / there we kill the Jews again.”

Hate music is also distributed on CDs, thousands of which were confiscated in 2000. In October 2000 the “national bard” Frank Rennike was sentenced in Baden Wurtemberg to ten months imprisonment and his wife fined DM1,000 for collaborating in the dissemination of hate and xenophobia. They were ordered to refund DM70,000 for sales of their CDs.

Concerts by racist and antisemitic bands have become the meeting point not only for neo-Nazis but also for young people without previous contact with extreme right-wing ideology. However, according to the BfV, although the number of skinhead bands rose slightly to 101 (93 in 1999), the number of public performances dropped by over 25 percent to 82 concerts (109 in 1999).

Internet. In 2000 the number of websites operated by German right-wing extremists amounted to 800, compared to 32 in 1996, 80 in 1997, 200 in 1998 and 330 in 1999. Homepages with illegal content are disseminated mainly through US providers. German right-wing extremists thus exploit the freedoms granted by the US First Amendment to circumvent the German law banning the dissemination of neo-Nazi propaganda and denial of the Holocaust on the web (see also below).

There was a marked radicalization of messages on the Internet, including a repeated call on various forums for taking up arms against the Federal Republic. The distribution of hit lists through the net, already observed in 1999, is an indication of the increasing readiness for violent struggle. These lists are sometimes combined with operational plans for preparing explosives.

Other means, such as mailing lists, reaching hundreds of members, are used to disseminate hate messages. In August 2000 NPD member Horst Mahler sent an e-mail message to members of the Bundestag, and to many citizens, appealing to “Citizens of the German Reich.”

Many mainstream publications and parties provide “open forums” for discussing daily issues. However, within a few weeks of their creation these forums are often infiltrated and eventually taken over almost completely by extreme right-wing activists.

In response to the drastic increase in German hate sites and extreme right-wing activities on the web, the German authorities together with the Zentralrat established a link on the Internet that leads surfers who use search terms such as Sieg Heil directly to anti-violence websites (see below).

ATTITUDES TOWARD THE HOLOCAUST AND THE NAZI ERA

The increase in antisemitic and xenophobic manifestations in Germany has prompted both the Protestant Church and the Evangelical Church to issue statements emphasizing their solidarity with the Jews and admitting their complicity in the Holocaust.

Holocaust Denial

Denial of the Holocaust is a crime in Germany and punishable under paragraphs 130, 185 and 186 of the Criminal Code. Thus, Holocaust denial publications are distributed mostly from abroad, especially Belgium through the international forum for Holocaust deniers Vrij Historisch Onderzoek (VHO). Germar Rudolf (see ASW 1996/7), for example, a leader of the international Holocaust denial campaign, is one of the forces behind the pseudo-scientific journal Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung (VffG), the most influential publication of Holocaust denial in Europe. Translated into various languages, it reaches an enormous public through the Internet. Rudolf, sentenced in 1995 for Holocaust denial in Germany, distributes his publications, as well as those of other deniers, through his publishing house Castle Hill from exile in the UK.

In December 2000 the Federal Court reversed a decision of the Manheim district court, ruling that Holocaust denial, disseminated through the Internet, is a punishable crime. This ruling applies also for material originating from abroad.

Holocaust denier Günther Deckert’s defense lawyer Ludwig Bock was fined DM9,000 for trivializing the Holocaust.

The Berlin school administration authorities took disciplinary measures against a high-school teacher in Steglitz, in December 2000, on the grounds of extreme right-wing statements made in the classroom. Parents filed a complaint against him because of his dissemination of the “Auschwitz lie.”

The Reception of Finkelstein’s Book in Germany

Norman Finkelstein’s controversial The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering, first published in English in the United States, became the subject of a heated discussion even months before its publication in Germany in early 2001, when it became an immediate best seller. Finkelstein claims that the memory and true essence of the Holocaust have been systematically distorted, manipulated and misused by Israel and the US Jewish community to serve their ideological and political aims.

Some 130,000 copiwere sold in the six weeks, and there was non-stop reportage and commentary in every major German media outlet. Wolfgang Benz, director of the Berlin Technical University’s Center for Research of Antisemitism, sees the debate less as a matter for historians than as a problem of political culture. Whereas in the US the debate took place only within the left camp, Benz is worried about the praise for Finkelstein by the average “armchair warrior” in Germany.

Publication of his book coincided with an opinion poll that showed that 65 percent of Germans totally or partially agreed with Finkelstein’s assertion that “Jewish organizations make exaggerated compensation demands on Germany to enrich themselves.”

Ernst Nolte and the Konrad Adenauer Prize

On 4 June right-wing historian Ernst Nolte, the main figure in the 1986 “historians debate” (see Richard J. Evans, In Hitler’s Shadow: West German Historians and the Attempt to Escape from the Nazi Past, London: I.B. Tauris, 1989). was awarded the Konrad Adenauer prize in Munich. The prize was presented to Nolte by Horst Möller, director of the Institute for Contemporary History in Munich, which has traditionally enjoyed a reputation as a center for serious historical research. Möller lavishly praised Nolte’s contribution to historical studies, while at the same time attempting to distance himself from Nolte’s most provocative theses. Subsequently, the German media was filled with sharp criticism of both Nolte and Möller. The latter was accused of condoning “an intellectual political offensive aimed at integrating rightist and revisionist positions into the conservative mainstream.”

Nolte is supported mainly by publications such as Junge Freiheit, which describes itself as a newspaper in Germany for “patriotic right-wingers.” In tones reminiscent of the NSDAP, Junge Freiheit has criticized German politicians as “decadent windbags” who “no longer possess an iota of honor,” and calls for “an end to the self-hatred of Germans” (17 Aug. 2000, World Socialist Web Site).

Compensation

On 24 March 2000 Chancellor Gerhard Schröder’s cabinet approved legislation granting compensation to Nazi slave workers A global figure of one billion marks had already been agreed upon in December 1999. Because of the poor participation in the fund (the money was to have been raised from firms which had employed slave workers), a citizens’ initiative was organized in Munich to urge large firms to contribute. In Frankfurt, Klaus Zickel, head of IG Metall the largest workers’ union in Germany, called on citizens of the city to donate DM20 each to compensate the victims of Nazi era slave workers. Nobel Prize winner Günther Grass made a similar appeal to all Germans. The sum is to be paid to the Foundation of Commemoration, Responsibility and Future. Solidarity funds were also set up by various professional unions.

In April 2000 the German federal government launched a website catalog of over 2,000 paintings, mostly looted from Jews by the Nazis. The Internet is regarded as the last opportunity for the heirs to recover their property.

RESPONSES TO RACISM AND ANTISEMITISM

Official and Public Activity

On 9 November, the anniversary of the Reichkristallnacht, German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder called for an “uprising of the decent” to combat racism, xenophobia and antisemitism. The message, he said, should echo, across Europe where support for far right groups was growing. During the year hundreds of thousands demonstrated against right-wing extremism in Berlin, Dortmund, Augsburg, Regensburg, Munich, Dessau and other cities throughout Germany.

Germany’s Interior Minister Otto Schilly has announced plans to aid young people quit neo-Nazi and far right groups. The program includes a telephone hotline, help finding work and housing, financial assistance and even the provision of a new identity. “The point is to weaken and destabilize the far right scene,” said Schilly.

In view of the growing threat of right-wing extremism, many initiatives have been taken on the net to counter this phenomenon. NetzGegenRechts (Anti-Right Net), for example, launched on 8 November, is supported by more than 20 of the leading German media outlets in an attempt to inform about right-wing extremism and to promote democratic values. To date, more than half a million Internet users have accessed the site and several hundred firms and private individuals have placed the NetzGegenRechts logo on their homepages. One month later, six German states launched a joint Internet site against right-wing extremism.

Mut gegen rechte Gewalt (Courage in the Face of Right-Wing Violence) is an initiative of the news magazine Stern, which has donated 2 million marks to support centers for victims of right-wing-violence and community groups by donating equipment and providing access to the Internet.

Outlawing the NPD – The Public Debate

Under Germany’s Basic Law, the Constitutional Court may ban a party if the government demonstrates that it pursues anti-democratic goals. This process may take several years. When West Germany promulgated the Basic Law after World War II, it sought to eradicate Nazism and disassociate itself from any political party espousing the same or similar goals and values as those of the Nazi Party. “Parties which, by reason of their aims or the behavior of their adherents, seek to impair or abolish the free democratic basic order or to endanger the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany, shall be unconstitutional” (Basic Law, article 21[2]).

Two parties have been banned in Germany in the postwar era. The neo-Nazi Sozialistische Reichspartei (SRP) was outlawed in 1952, and the Kommunistische Partei Deutschland (KPD) in 1956. Since 1980, 23 extreme right-wing groups have been declared illegal. In 2000, Hamburger Sturm (in August), and Blood & Honour division Deutschland and its youth organization White Youth were declared illegal.

The increasing radicalism and violence of the NPD and its enthusiasm for Nazi ideology have brought the discussion about banning the party to the top of the public agenda. “We have gathered so much convincing material and recorded so many terrible ideological, aggressive and hateful remarks that we would be negligent to do nothing,” said Interior Ministry official Cornelia Sonntag-Wollgast.

On 3 November 2000, a spokesman of the Federal Ministry of the Interior reported that more than 350 complaints had been filed against members and sympathizers of the NPD. The BfV published 600 pages of material against the party, demonstrating that NPD officials call openly for a take-over of power in Germany, by force, “if necessary.” A wide range of political leaders have called for banning the NPD. On 8 November the federal government decided to submit a request to ban the NPD to the Federal Constitutional Court. In January 2001 the Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe confirmed that the application to outlaw the NPD – comprising 73 files – had been lodged.

The liberal Freie Demokraten (Free Democratic Party – FDP) opposed the ban, saying the NPD (whose membership rose considerably in 2000/1) was not a mortal threat to democracy. “We consider a ban the wrong way to fight far right extremism,” said FDP chairman Guido Westerwelle. “It is well-intentioned, but well-intentioned is often the opposite of well done… The NPD is the least successful of all the far right parties... [Its] electoral results do not confirm the presence of this danger,” he claimed.

Banning an extreme right-wing party prevents it from participating in state elections. However, declaring these parties unconstitutional may encourage members and sympathizers of such organizations to affiliate with mainstream groups. Those who oppose the ban also point out that groups that have been declared illegal in the past have continued their activities underground, making it more difficult for the authorities to monitor them. By resorting to high-tech means, for example, extreme rightists, especially those of forbidden organizations, effectively evade surveillance.


http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2000-1/germany.htm

oiram
03-11-2008, 02:30 PM
Israel, Let Me Count The Ways we bless thee!
http://www.ikhwanweb.com/DataE/2007/10/17/Israel%20lobby.jpg (http://www.ikhwanweb.com/SectionsPage.asp?SectionID=95)http://www.sott.net/image/image/11807/medium/israel_america_flag.png (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/164296-War-games-Israel-s-US-missile-shield)
Israel, Let Me
Count The WaysToday, while driving through town, I wound up behind a minivan that had a big sticker on the back. The sticker had an Israeli flag in the middle of it, and under it the quotation from the book of Genesis that reads "I will bless those who bless thee."

I would like to take this time to INDENT my own reasons for thanking and blessing Israel, our lone ally in the Middle East, for everything she has done for us, since I am quite sure most Americans are unaware of just what kind of friend she has been to us.

For extorting from me and my fellow Americans $16,000,000,000 (billion) a year for the last 4 decades, we bless thee.

For taking our most sophisticated weapons technology and stealing it for yourself without paying the American patent holders, we bless thee.

For taking that high-tech military technology and selling it to our enemies, such as the Russians and Chinese, thus further endangering us, we bless thee.

For using that weaponry in a sustained attack against a United States ship, the USS Liberty, in an attempt to sink her, thus preventing US servicemen from revealing to the rest of the world information concerning the war crimes they witnessed you commit against Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai Desert during the Six Day War, we bless thee.

For killing 35 and wounding 170 American sailors aboard the USS Liberty, we bless thee.

For bribing the United States government into covering it up, preventing any justice from being done for the benefit of the families of the lost sailors - as well as the American People, we bless thee.

For sending your agents into Egypt and blowing up American buildings for the purpose of blaming the Arabs in an event known as the Lavon Affair, we bless thee.

For sending your agents into Libya during the Reagan administration, and broadcasting radio messages in Arabic that were designed to sound like "terrorist cell planning" so that the US would initiate military strikes against Khadafi, we bless thee.

For withholding information from us concerning the planned attacks against the US Marine barracks in Lebanon, attacks you knew about through your moles in the Islamic world and about which you deliberately refused to warn us in order to further your interests against the Arabs, we bless thee.

For employing Jonathon Pollard, an American serviceman paid to spy for Israel in order to steal even more of our National Security secrets for your parasitic purposes, we bless thee.

For blackmailing President Clinton through one of your intelligence agents, Monica Lewinsky, in order to prevent a coherent peace program from being pushed forward between yourself and the Palestinian people that you have brutalized and murdered for the last 50 years, we bless thee.

For breaking every agreement you have made with your Arab neighbors, stealing their land, displacing, murdering, and treating them like the animals you see them as, we bless thee.

For using your agents within the first Bush administration to involve us in the first Gulf War, causing the deaths of American men and women, and exposing our servicemen to whatever bioweapons were/are responsible that has led to Gulf War Syndrome, we bless thee.

For your role in the September 11 attacks in this country, and for blackmailing and bribing the US government into deporting back to Israel the 100 or more intelligence agents that were arrested after the attacks, we bless thee.

For supressing the information from the American people of your involvement in the September 11 attacks and sending us in the wrong direction in search of answers, we bless thee.

For using one of your agents in the US Army Weapons Lab, Lt Colonel Philip Zack to steal anthrax and distribute it into our mail system, terrorizing US citizens and killing several in order to blame the Arabs, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the US Government, namely, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, and the rest into initiating this war in the Middle East so that you could bring to heel all the enemies you have made during the last 50 years, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the media to lie to us on a minute by minute basis about the war, how "just" this cause is, and what the real reasons behind it are, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the Christian Evangelical community, such as Falwell, Graham, Swaggert, and the rest who praise you as God's chosen people and further keep Americans in the dark about who you really are, what you have done, and what you are truly about, we bless thee.

For bringing idiots like Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity, Beck, and Savage to the forefront as paid liars that will support you and further lead Americans astray, we bless thee.

For making America your attack dog, and for sending her sons and daughters to fight and die in all your future wars, we bless thee.

For using your influence in the media to hide the real statistics about the war, the dead and wounded on both sides, we bless thee.

For using us in such a way that not only further inflames the Arab world against us, but as well has succeeded in our alienating ourselves against those nations with whom we have been friendly for over a century, we bless thee.

And finally, for using your influence in our media and academia to flood our minds with pornography and lies, as well as inculcating in us a hatred for our history, religion, and culture, for dividing our nation between races and sexes, and for releasing into our society all of your plagues and filth that have left us a rotted out corpse of a once great nation, oh Israel, our friend,we bless thee.
http://www.rense.com/general69/letme.htm
Ari Fleischer a modern day Moses leading the Jews out of Democratic Party bondage
Wednesday, October 31st, 2007http://prodos.thinkertothinker.com/wp-content/photos/israel_defence_force.jpghttp://prodos.thinkertothinker.com/wp-content/photos/webutante.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vpjXKNbCf5I/SLlhj5nADrI/AAAAAAAAAs0/lvIeL0QXBHE/s320/Sarah-Palin-Vogue.jpghttp://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/08/31/0109-palin-gun-world-featur.jpg
May Israel Prevail! .............. Woman?? ......... Is she Jewish too look at the nose & face??Ari Fleischer:

… In my business, it’s all about making inroads … No doubt about it, getting the Jewish vote out of the Democratic party and into the Republicans is a slow steady inroad we’re making every year, every election. And we’ve only just begun.

… We’re finally understanding the real threat that Islamic extremism represents to the United States, Israel and the rest of the free world.
There's no such thing as peace without 100% strength. ????("Yep! So who are the aggressors should be more then clear.........A Jewish person is talking! Peace by force very smart!" Even better use Americans to die for there own Shit. "Sick Mothers!") Webutante:

Fleischer recalled the United States’ first wars against Islamic fundamentalism, The Barbary Wars, in the early 1800’s when then President Thomas Jefferson refused to continue paying bribes to Muslim pirates in the Mediterranean.

Both the George Washington and John Adams Administrations had made bribery payments from the U.S. Treasury in hopes that our ships would not be attacked, robbed and destroyed off the coast of Tripoli. But to no avail.Ari Fleischer:

Jefferson said no more to Islamic bribery after repeated attacks on our ships and declared war, sent in the Marines and won that war, just like President Bush after 9-11.

Strength is the only thing the terrorists will ever understand.

One of the most profound moments I remember in the White House was when President Bush asked Eli Wiesel if he thought America should remove Saddam Hussein from Iraq.

Mr. Vizel was adamant that the West could have averted World War II and saved millions of lives, if only it had taken Hitler seriously early on, rather than trying to appease him.

I strongly believe our country and the world is a great deal better off because Saddam and his sons are now gone. We didn’t find WMDs as we had expected, but that in no way diminishes the importance of what we’ve done and will continue to do in Iraq. The world is a safer place because America and Israel have acted.

… George Bush is without a doubt the best friend Israel and the Jews have ever had.
http://prodos.thinkertothinker.com/?m=200710

Palin maternal grandfather Schmuel Sheigam, was a Lithuanian
Jack Pop just found this! Why don't I wonder?
Palin’s Maternal Grandfather And Grandmother
Her maternal grandfather, Schmuel Sheigam, was a Lithuanian Jew, born in 1912 in Vilkaviskis, Lithuania,
91.2 miles west of Vilnius. The Sheigam family immigrated to America, via Hamburg, Germany in 1915
because of WWI. The grandmother was a Jewess named Gower.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3262/palinjewishnoseov4.jpg
Oddly her nose has some very Jewish features.At Ellis Island Immigration Centre, the name was entered as Sheeran, a standard practice of the time when immigration officers were unable to understand the pronunciation of non-English speaking immigrants. Sheeran is a common Irish name but members of the Sheigam family are buried in the Jewish cemetery at Budezeriai near Vilkaviskis:in Lithuania

Documentation
Further information on Governor Palin’s ancestors can easily be found in the vital records in the Lithuanian State Historical Archives in Vilnius. The Archives holds birth, marriage, divorce, and death records for the Lithuanian Jewish community from 1851 until 1915 when the Jews were required to leave the country because of World War I. They are in 18th Century Cyrillic script and Yiddish Many of these records include the mother’s maiden name and town of registration.

Palin’s Paternal Grandfather And Grandmother

The grandmother’s name was Coleman, and Palin’s father looks to have Ashkazian blood.

Is Sarah Palin Jewish?
Yes and No. She is a fundamentaINDENT Christian, but her mother was Jewish. Sarah Sheerhan, Palin’s mother married Charles Heath, an evangelical, who instilled a strong religious faith in the family

She was not a supporter of Pat Buchanan’s presidential bid in 2000, as some Democratic partisans have falsely claimed. Buchanan, a very conservative Catholic, is not popular among most Jewish voters due to his far right-wing views on the relationship between church and state, his occasional positive statements on the Nazi movement, and his lack of support for Israel. In 2000 Palin supported Steve Forbes, not Buchanan.
http://thejewishconspiracyexposed.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/sarah-palin-is-a-jewess/ I believed this thing with the Nose was just a joke "Ok! wrong again!" But Liars have a big Nose "Right?"
Now you all know always the same address!

You better start screening your Republican Party.

Now Obama is not a Jew yet "Right?"
Obama is Kenyan & dark colored "Right!"
Is Obama ex muslim ???

Don't Jews are anti dark color, anti None Jew, anti Muslims & anti Democrat (View article above)

So you know what will be next! .... because by my logic ...... 1+1 = 2 ...... I give it to January then the real party begins!
Armageddon is on-line!

mynameis
04-11-2008, 07:31 AM
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=6189991712636113875&hl=en

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pics/racism.jpg

On the first day, she told the blue-eyed students that they were better, smarter, would get more time on the playground and could get seconds at lunch. The brown-eyed students had to drink from a cup, not the water fountain, and would endure unwarranted criticism of their behavior.

Almost instantly, the brown-eyed children began to wither. Their second-class citizenship, just hours old, had begun to affect their performance in class. And the blue-eyed students reveled in their privileged status. "I felt like I was a king," one of the blue-eyed boys said, "like I ruled them brown-eyes. Like I was better than them. Happy."

Contrast that with the despair of a brown-eyed student: "The way they treated you, it felt like you didn't even want to try to do anything."

The next day, Elliott told her students she'd been mistaken, that brown-eyed students were better, smarter. And the students who had been discriminated against the day before adopted the attitudes of the oppressor. When they were the lower class, the brown-eyed children struggled for more than five minutes to get through a flash-card exercise; when they were on top, they whizzed through the cards in under three minutes. "The only thing that had changed was that now, they were superior people," Elliott said on the tape.


YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.