Psychiatry Questioned

[bob_jones]

This is a start.
Sometimes I think Big Pharma are trolling around here and so here is an introduction to the anti-psychiatry movement that is causing more oppression than the "War on Terror" laws that get more attention thanks to the efforts of David Icke, Noam Chomsky and Alex Jones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n46ohBsrPI
If you post good stuff on this thread you will be able to use user CP to find it again and again and so it will run for a very long time.
Yes it is considered subversive by Big Brother and in fact the Pigs that take over in Animal Farm were explicitally likened to the UK Police by George Orwell in the preface but it was censored out by Big Brother.

[john white]

I'm "against" psychiatry: In that I consider much of it to be primitive, barbaric and based on false presumptions, and I also consider that in a few decades 20th century psychiatry will be seen as the dark age of human abuse that it was: in this my views are much influenced by minds of genius such as R.D.Laing

But I'm also firmly against the anti-psychiatry movement, because if you scratch beneath the surface you will swiftly find the "church" of Scientology, which is in a full on info-war against psychiatry because it uses techniques and principles of psychiatry itself (essentially right brain mythologising of left brain psychiatric "science") in brainwashing its unfortunate victims/members and like all secret societies it wants to eliminate the knowledge its power is based upon from public circulation

[bob_jones]

I am one the Vince Bohem mailing list.
That is an exclusive mailing list of news articles about the harm caused by psyciatric medications.
I am also a member of the Yahoo groups UK Survivors and criticalpsychiatry.
There is a human rights group for people victimised by psychiatric persecution run by Church of Scientology but they never replied to me.
They are not the be all and end all of the anti-psychiatry movement.
If you watch part two of the above video film you will get a guided tour of anti-psychiatry web sites and none of them are anything to do with Scientology as far as I know.
:)I fancy starting a cult that demands you sign up to a set of ideas that are your own due to your own rational analysis and your own research thus defeating the point of a cult!:)

[ownedtbh]

i recommend you guys watch Psychiatry Of Death great documentary



found it here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5583283816400214152


shows the fraud of psychiatry.

[lennart]

a docu by scientology....but extremely good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsfH_ap2Wgg

[bob_jones]

Report on the Unlawful Detention of Robert Alexander Jones B.Eng (Honours) for the Mental Health Review Tribunal of November the 22nd 2006

The legal status of Robert’s detention is simple. It is an unlawful detention in every aspect and it is only dubious works of deceit that are presented to the Tribunal by the hospital authorities in an attempt to justify Robert’s false imprisonment.
The legal case presented by Robert is simple and straight forward. He is unlawfully detained because he is of full comprehension of the fact that his liberty has been taken on the grounds of alleged insanity.
There is no room to contradict that statement. Robert has for himself made sure that he can prove his comprehension of that was lucid on the day of the section application and the day of his Managers Hearing by demonstrating his comprehension in writing and keeping record of his written statements to prove his case. The very section application was made on the basis that Robert had demonstrated his full comprehension of the insanity allegation and the relevant law in writing.
The word insanity is interchangeable with the term mental illness, or unsoundness of mind or the word lunatic. The term mental illness is preferred by the hospital authorities as it can be a lot more widely described that the term unsoundness of mind, used in the European Convention of Human Rights, or the term lunatic that is used to define the legal meaning of an illness of such a degree to warrant detention and treatment using the Mental Health Act 1983.
The Mental Health Act 1983 is full of precedent were the law has formally recognised that it is to torment a person by imprisoning them in a place for the insane while they are of a comprehension that it is a place for the insane where they have been detained. Damages are always awarded when it can be demonstrated that this has been the case.
That is totally sound in its reasoning as we are free in society to do anything we want to do as long as it is not against the law. A person that has the soundness of mind to understand that has the right to liberty unless they are awaiting trial for a crime or have been convicted of a crime. Our democracy and Parliament have made that the law of the land.
The reasoning is sound because it makes sure the person is culpable under criminal law so that it is the individual that is responsible for their own actions. Then they have a right in law to be free from interference in their lives from the hospital authorities. It is not the job of the nursing staff to conjure up far fetched spectres of violence and aggression purely to try and get their own way in Mental Health Review Tribunals. Because the patient is a sane person and so has responsibility for his own actions so that it is not the hospitals concern if the person is a danger to himself or others as this person is protected from others intending harm by criminal law. And criminal law not the hospital authorities protects the public from this person. However this person has never acted in an aggressive or violent way in the past. The Mental Health Act Manual says that past behaviour is the best indicator to predict future behaviour. It is the case that Robert is simply not an aggressive person. The accusation of violence is certainly baseless and leaves Tracy Owens open to legal action under civil law as well as possibly criminal law for wilfully falsifying a medical report. The motive for which; she makes plain in her self-incriminating report writing.

Dr. Salil Rackshit accepted readily in the managers hearing that not all perceived corruption is symptomatic of mental illness by a long chalk. That infact a lot of corruption exists in reality.
The hospital managers have been reported to the Inland Revenue as has Tracey Owens.
It is graceless and greedy of Tracey Owens to try and have it both ways. The psychiatric services have had a corruption problem since Robert Alexander Jones’ first admission in the year 2000.
The reasons are easy to understand. Clarient Chemicals bought BTP Plc during Robert’s first admission in February 2000. The share price of BTP had halved from £4.00 per share in January 1999 to £1.95 per share in January 2000. Clarient Chemicals are not quoted on the stock exchange so have no share price to slump.
This happened as investors lost confidence as it became apparent that BTP were becoming engulfed in a city scandal involving bribes to the Health and Safety Executive and the associated false accounting published in the company report. The report is a statutory requirement for companies that trade shares on the London Stock Exchange to produce.
The refusal of BTP to apologise for the rude behaviour of the staff while I worked there from September 1997 to January 1998 left me out of pocket financially as I had expected a much higher standard of professionalism than I experienced. I did not get the apology and promise of the good job reference that I deserved. I informed BTP that as long as they told lies about my good standards as a chemical engineer then I would tell the truth about their poor standards as a chemical company.
It is obvious that all the staff concerned with taking Robert’s liberty have been bribed by Clarient Chemicals to falsely accuse Robert of mental illness. They will say that they would not do that and yet obviously have done just that.
Robert was discharged by the Managers Hearing on the 3rd of January 2003 after Dr Nigel Evans had his report contents rejected by the managers that supposed that his main concern was that Robert had an H.R.C 20 score of 36 out of 40 and needed to be detained under the Mental Health Act for treatment not because he was not a violent person, as Robert had no record of violence to justify a statement like that. But that Robert would do psychological damage to Clarient Chemicals if he was not treated for the delusion that they bribe the Health and Safety Executive.
Robert has had documented proof that the chemical works he worked at needed to perform remedial work to a distillation tower after he wrote to the Health and Safety Executive and pointed out the highly dangerous lack of safety traps on the P2 Distillation Column.
The law requires any ladder over 3 meters in height to have a safety gate or trap door around the top so that no-one can fall through the gap around the ladder top.
The column was built in 1995; two years before Robert went to work there; and had the trap doors fitted on the orders of the Health and Safety Executive in September 1999; one year and eight months after he had left. Robert first raised the issue with BTP in September 1998 and the danger was left uncorrected until the Health and Safety Executive ordered them fitted in September 1999. The matter having been brought to their attention in August of that year by a letter sent to them by Robert.
In that letter they denied having been bribed to ignore the lack of safety traps when they issued a safety operating certificate for to allow the distillation to be brought into production in 1995.
This was contrary to what the chemical work’s Health and Safety Officer had told Robert when he worked there. He told him that he bribed the Health and Safety Executive to ignore the obvious lack of safety traps and he was given a bonus in pay for pulling off the job of bribery.
Robert also learned that the entire works that made many millions of pounds a year in profits would have to be closed down if they could not use corruption because no pharmacological tests had been done on most of the chemicals. This meant no toxicity data was available, so that no Occupational Exposure Limit could be set by the Health and Safety Executive to limit the danger to workers health of being poisoned by breathing in the very chemically smelly air on the site of the chemical works.
The pharmacological data was required to set the exposure limit and the cost of commissioning the tests is statutetorialy on the chemical company.
Robert spoke to the chemical hazards part of the Health and Safety Executive in Liverpool to check his facts and found out that the pharmacological tests were a specific statutory requirement.
That the law was very clear on this matter. That if no pharmacological tests had been done on the chemicals then there was no way that the Health and Safety Executive could allow an industrial process to be used that used those chemicals.
Robert’s letter from Cardiff Health and Safety Executive however (the one that denied they took bribes) stated in witting that pharmacological test were not a statutory requirement but the law merely required the company to make a risk assessment.
This was found to be untrue. The law dose require pharmacological tests as without them the Health and Safety Executive has no data on toxicity, carcinogenic properties, skin irritant properties, fertility effects (spermicidal properties in men), and so can not set an Occupational Exposure Limit to prevent workers being poisoned by breathing in the chemicals that get into the air.
They told Robert that the only possible way any chemical that has not had the statutorily required pharmacological tests done on them could be part of an industrial process was if the chemical was produced and then consumed by a chemical reaction in a reactor and never became exposed to the air so could never be a poisoning risk to any workers.
If this was the case then the chemical hazards directorate in Liverpool said that they may just allow a company to use a process that has a chemical with no pharmacological tests done on it; if they could be sure all of it would always be consumed by the time the product stream left the reactor and that there was no risk of it leaking out of the reactor at any time. They said that they would order the flanges on the pipes welded up as opposed to bolted gasket joins if this was the case to prevent the possibility of leaking.
In the chemical works that Robert worked at this was not done and could not be done as all the processes involved batch reactors. This meant that the lid on the top could be opened. That the smell of every chemical was in the air in the various sheds housing the reactors and men had to shovel the chemicals that had no pharmacological tests done on them out of trays and into barrels to pack them off to customers.
The adverse effects on workers health was assessed by the managers by observation of their health and if you got to look pale and became slow and ill looking you would get the sack and told that it was for complacency.
However you would not have to become pale and gaunt looking to get the sack for complacency as there was a wide variety of chemicals on the site. One man had to be stopped from just after starting his job; as his fore arms had become covered in red blotches; after stating a job in the sodium room. He was sacked during his first week and told what a pity it was a he had a strange allergy.
Dermatological testing is one of the groups of tests called pharmacological tests. This company had their own way of jumping the expensive pharmacological testing process and going straight to testing chemicals on the workforce.
Tracy Owen’s assertion that Robert became a heavy cannabis smoker is a very nasty slander. It is a complete surprise to Robert. In all the six years of having tribunals and reports it is an allegation that has not been made before. So are the allegations of aggressive and violent behaviour. They are new allegations and Robert would like to know how Tracey has come by these allegations all of a sudden. Robert can not understand why such a baseless allegation would be made by Tracey unless she was making it up so she could pretend that it explains why the “delusions” of corruption involving the Health and Safety Executive came about.
Robert has been able to prove that there were genuine Health and Safety breaches of law at that chemical works in the past. But his parents have stolen the documents as they get a kick out of seeing their son suffer such tormenting injustice.
It is perverse and bizarre for the staff to describe Robert’s parents as supportive because they undermine Robert so that the hospital staff can get rich by filling their boots with corrupt and illegal payments at the expense of their son’s career and liberty.
Robert regards this statement as a sick joke designed to torment him with the feeling of impotence to prevent the hospital staff getting bribes to falsely accuse him of mental illness.
Last night Robert’s father suggested that he needed his parents to look after him because he was not capable of putting past psychiatric reports in a pile and dumping them in the corner of a room for future reference.
The subject arose because Robert was first diagnosed with hyper mania in the year 2000. Then a diagnosis of paranoid scitsophrenia was put on the discharge papers on 10/03/00. Robert complained to Eivion Davies the hospital complaints manager and he went through all the nursing notes of my first admission and wrote back to Robert stating that no mention of paranoid scitsophrenia was made anywhere in my nursing notes and he had therefore written to my GP to tell him to take it out of my medical notes.
Because Robert’s parents trawl his bedroom and steal documents that back up his case he can not produce a copy for the tribunal to see. The last time it was produced was for the N.E.R’s successful application for discharge on the 3rd of January 2003. He had to ask his father to produce it then because Robert’s parents knew exactly where it was having put it in a place where only they could find it. This type of behaviour is usual of Robert’s parents. The sabotage of his practical organisation of his life by them is distorted into a presentation of incapability and used as a false proof of his need for them to look after him due to his illness.
This time Robert’s father is swearing blind that he dose not know what Robert is talking about.
In fact all of Robert’s past reports that would prove that no consistent diagnosis has been made by the hospital over the years are not to be found. The latest doctor’s report states that Robert has always been given a diagnosis of paranoid scitsophrenia. However that is simply not true.
Robert was initially diagnosed with hyper mania in the year 2000 and Dr. Moody Elamere suggested that his mood swings were the reason for his sacking from the chemical company job in 1998. This completely ignored that Robert’s most recent job was after that and for longer in 1999.
The diagnosis was changed to hypomania by Dr Nigel Evans in September 2000. That was stuck to until May 2002 when the paranoid scitsophrenia diagnosis was made in earnest.
The definition of the diagnosis of paranoid scitsophrenia has been changed to fit Robert because Robert dose not fit the diagnosis. The allegation of cannabis smoking has, however, been fabricated to fit the diagnosis. They would like to talk about what has caused Robert’s scitsophrenia because that assumes that Robert has scitsophrenia.
There is a lot of mud slinging by the hospital but they have no proof that Robert has any mental illness. So they duck having to prove that Robert has any mental illness and make false allegations of cannabis smoking to skip that part and go straight on to explaining what has caused an illness that they found themselves unable to prove that he ever has in the first place. How very deceitful and lazy.
Please note
There are two things Robert has proven for a fact;-

1. Robert is accused in the reports of suffering from persecutory delusions. These so called delusions are of being harassed by the hospital authorities. The reports say that they really are going to use assertive outreach if Robert is discharged and even consider using section 25.
IT IS PROVEN THAT ROBERT’S IDEAS OF A PERSECUTORY NATURE ARE FAR FROM DELUSIONAL.
Robert understands full well that the allegations of persecutory delusions are made to fit the bogus diagnosis and not because they actually apply to him.

2. Robert’s imprisonment is justified on the basis that he is suffering from delusions of false imprisonment. This is a sick joke.
IT IS PROVEN THAT ROBERT IS NOT SUFFERING FROM DELUSIONS OF FALSE IMPRISONMENT BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS FULL-WELL THAT HE IS GONE AGAINST WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW. SIMPLY PUT: - ROBERT IS UNLAWFULY DETAINED AND HE KNOWS IT.
Medication is not required to make the law what the hospital staff want it to be. The laws are made in Parliament not in Robert’s head. The idea that making Robert take psychiatric medication can change the law of the land by altering his comprehension is bizarre in the extreme. Robert is the more rational in his representation. Robert is correct in his assertion that he is unlawfully detained. He understands that he is gone against without due process of law. This is a right that comes from the Magna Carta. It is fundamental law to this day. The monarch is subject to law and can not take the liberty of a subject unless their peers; consisting of a jury; convict them of a crime.
If a citizen comprehends that then they can not be detained under using the Mental Health Act 1983.
THE CASE IS PROVEN THAT THE HOSPITAL IS NOT RESPECTING ROBERT’S RIGHT TO LIBERTY

Report written by Robert Alexander Jones B.Eng (honours) on 21/11/06

[tracker]

lets face a true fact here .

they are like delusional people .
they gather everything they see out side them self and fit it into a tiny theory within the self and are anable to compromise .

the truth is

with out them claiming that people are mentally sick


how would they make a living ?



so the truth is this .




they need people to be sick


because thats what their living is based upon !:cool:

[drael]

Well, i dont need to read anything to know psychiatry is bunk and has poor evidence. And ethically : just go to an in-patient situation and talk to the patients. This is blatent mind-control (enforcing for example, materialist beleifs), and blatent breech of human rights.

Dark age indeed. This stuff is both very sick, unproven, and actually holding society in like sheep in a pen. (and i studied psychology.....the mental illness/chemical theory of illness etc is extremely weak and made up, as well as basically facist)

+1!!!!!!!

[checkmate]

The problem with psychiatry is that it's based on outdated information and the egos involved believe they really understand behavior and the functioning of the brain. When you stop trying to learn you become obsolete.

[bob_jones]

25 GOOD REASONS WHY PSYCHIATRY MUST BE ABOLISHED by Don Weitz

1. Because psychiatrists frequently cause harm, permanent disabilities, death - death of the body-mind-spirit. 2. Because psychiatrists frequently violate the Hippocratic Oath which orders all physicians "First Do No Harm."
3. Because psychiatrists patronize and disempower people, especially their patients.
4. Because psychiatry is not a medical science.
5. Because psychiatry is quackery, a pseudo-science which lacks independent diagnostic tests, testable hypotheses, and cures for "schizophrenia" and all other types of alleged "mental illness" or "mental disorder".
6. Because psychiatrists can not accurately and reliably predict dangerousness, violence, or any other type of human behaviour, yet make such claims as "expert witnesses", and with the media promote the "dangerous mental patient" myth/stereotype.
7. Because psychiatrists have caused a worldwide epidemic of brain damage by promoting and prescribing brain-disabling treatments such as the neuroleptics, antidepressants, electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroshock), and psychosurgery (lobotomy).
8. Because psychiatrists manufacture hundreds of "mental disorders" classified in its bible called "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" (a modern witch-hunting manual); such "mental disorders" and "symptoms" are in fact negative, class-and-culturally-biased moral judgments for dissident ways of coping with personal problems and alternative ways of perceiving, interpreting or being in the world.
9. Because psychiatrists, blinded by their medical model bias, fraudulently pathologize and label people's serious life or existential crises as "symptoms" of "mental illness" or "mental disorder" such as "schizophrenia","bipolar affective disorder", and "personality disorder".
10. Because psychiatrists compound this fraud by falsely claiming, without scientific proof, that these "mental disorders" are caused by a "biochemical imbalance" in the brain, genetic factors or "genetic predispositions", despite the fact that there are no genetic factors in "mental illness".
11. Because psychiatrists frequently misinform their patients, families and the public by claiming that brain-disabling procedures such as the neurotoxins (e.g.,"antipsychotic medication" and "antidepressasnts"), electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroconvulsive therapy/"ECT"), psychosurgery (lobotomy) and other behaviour modification-mind control procedures are "safe, effective and lifesaving". The exact opposite is tragically true.
12. Because psychiatrists routinely deceive or lie to patients, prisoners, their families, and the public.
13. Because psychiatrists routinely and wilfully violate the medical-ethical principle of "informed consent" by misinforming or not informing their patients about the numerous toxic, disabling and frequently permanent effects of the neuroleptics such as memory loss, tardive dyskinesia, tardive psychosis, parkinsonism, dementia (all signs of brain damage), and death.
14. Because psychiatrists routinely threaten, intimidate or coerce many patients - particularly women, children, the elderly, and prisoners - into consenting to health-threatening/brain-damaging "treatment" such as the antidepressants, neuroleptics, electroconvulsive brainwashing, and hi-risk experiments.
15. Because psychiatrists frequently fail to fully inform psychiatric inmates and prisoners about existing safe and humane, non-medical alternatives in the community such as survivor-controlled crisis centres, drop-ins, self-help or advocacy groups, diet, massage, holistic medicine, affordable supportive housing, and jobs.
16. Because psychiatrists are sexist in frequently stereotyping women in crisis as "hysterical" or "over-emotional", blaming women whenever they voice real complaints and assertively express their feelings and emotions, prescribing massive doses of tranquilizers and antidepressants to disproportionately large numbers of women, and in sexually assaulting women in their offices and institutions.
17. Because psychiatrists, particularly white male psychiatrists, are homophobic - the American Psychiatric Association (APA) once labelled homosexuality as a "mental illness" or "mental disorder" - and have used forced electroshock on lesbians, trying to coerce them into adopting a heterosexual life style.
18. Because psychiatrists are ageist in prescribing tranquilizers, antidepressants ("medication") and electroconvulsive brainwashing for disproportionately large numbers of elderly people - a form of elder abuse.
19. Because psychiatrists are racist in disproportionately incarcerating and drugging people of African descent, aboringal people, other people of colour and labelling them "psychotic" or "schizophrenic".
20. Because psychiatrists routinely violate people's civil rights, human rights and constitutional rights such as imprisoning innocent people without court trial or public hearing ("involuntary commitment"), and subjecting them to cruel and unusual punishments or tortures such as forced drugging, electroconvulsive brainwashing, psychosurgery, solitary confinement, "chemical restraints", and 4-point or 5-point restraints.
21. Because psychiatrists masterminded the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people including disabled children, the elderly and psychiatric patients during The Holocaust in Nazi Germany, and "selected" hundreds of thousands of concentration camp prisoners for death ("T-4 euthanasia" program) - historical facts still missing in psychiatric textbooks and histories.
22. Because psychiatrists have willingly participated in and administered mind-control experiments in the United States and Canada since the early 1950s - its chief targets have been poor patients, women, dissidents and prisoners.
23. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is based on the 3 Fs: Fear, Fraud, and Force.
24. Because psychiatry is a form of social control or punishment - not treatment.
25. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is fascist - a direct threat to democracy, human rights and life.

[bob_jones]

Yesterday Vince Bohem put out a Pharmalot report about the outrageous shenanigans of an AstraZeneca regional sales manager who was reported to have urged his people to
use A.A. Milne's Tigger in an effort to peddle the antipsychotic, Seroquel, to children.
See report:-

http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/11/tiggergate-using-disney-icons-to-sell-seroquel/



Dixie Dean (BSc, MIET, MBA, BIM, FRSA) is a Scottish activist and a retired academic.

He is an Honorary Lecturer for the European Centre for Professional Ethics, and Convenor for the mental health campaign On Deaf Ears?



Professor Dean writes:


Perhaps they're right Vince [sarcasm is the lowest from of wit Dixie!-Bob Jones]

I amended a Dalhousie University diagnosis of Pooh Bear and pals, according to the UK Diagnostic Manual (much the same as your DCM)

dixie
-----

POOH BEAR

(According to the ICD-9 Mental Illness Diagnostic Manual)



"On the surface Christopher Robin's Hundred acre Wood is an innocent world, but on closer examination by our group of psychiatrists we find a forest where neurodevelopmental and psychosocial problems go unrecognised and untreated



The characters are a group of seriously troubled individuals suffering from significant disorders:


- Winnie-the-Pooh suffers not only possible Shaken Bear Syndrome and morbid

fixation on honey but more serious problems:

* Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)

* Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) leading to his obesity and possibly

later, Tourette's Syndrome



- Piglet suffers from Generalised Anxiety Disorder and should be placed on an

anti-panic agent



- Eeyore suffers from severe Depression



- Owl is cloaking his Dyslexia



- Tigger often displays a recurrent pattern of risk-taking behaviours leading the

child Roo into danger



- Rabbit is overly self-important and his need to organize others with himself at

the top is overwhelming



- Christopher Robin spends all his time talking to animals and showing a

possible future gender crisis



In fact the problem lies not with the characters but with the boy:


Christopher Robin has never been to this Hundred Acre Wood. Has anyone but him ever met the characters or are they, too, inside his head?

The child clearly suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder and ADHD



Somewhere in the forest a little boy and his bear play. Sadly, the forest is not a place of enchantment, but one of disenchantment where neurodevelopmental and psychosocial problems go unrecognised and untreated




Dixie Dean (Prof. Em.)


With Apologies to Dalhousie University: 'Pathology Review: A Neuro-developmental Perspective on A. A. Milne'

[sweheretic]

modern witch-hunting manual indeed :)

it's the power to explain away any aberrant views of reality and claiming the system itself to be the sound one.

and why are politicians allowed to walk the streets? most of them are clearly suffering from at least 10 different mental illnesses. put em all in padded cells and lets start over

[lennart]

I don,t know but....bob jones...you look like ALEX jones!!

[zero1]

25 GOOD REASONS WHY PSYCHIATRY MUST BE ABOLISHED by Don Weitz

1. Because psychiatrists frequently cause harm, permanent disabilities, death - death of the body-mind-spirit. 2. Because psychiatrists frequently violate the Hippocratic Oath which orders all physicians "First Do No Harm."
3. Because psychiatrists patronize and disempower people, especially their patients.
4. Because psychiatry is not a medical science.
5. Because psychiatry is quackery, a pseudo-science which lacks independent diagnostic tests, testable hypotheses, and cures for "schizophrenia" and all other types of alleged "mental illness" or "mental disorder".
6. Because psychiatrists can not accurately and reliably predict dangerousness, violence, or any other type of human behaviour, yet make such claims as "expert witnesses", and with the media promote the "dangerous mental patient" myth/stereotype.
7. Because psychiatrists have caused a worldwide epidemic of brain damage by promoting and prescribing brain-disabling treatments such as the neuroleptics, antidepressants, electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroshock), and psychosurgery (lobotomy).
8. Because psychiatrists manufacture hundreds of "mental disorders" classified in its bible called "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" (a modern witch-hunting manual); such "mental disorders" and "symptoms" are in fact negative, class-and-culturally-biased moral judgments for dissident ways of coping with personal problems and alternative ways of perceiving, interpreting or being in the world.
9. Because psychiatrists, blinded by their medical model bias, fraudulently pathologize and label people's serious life or existential crises as "symptoms" of "mental illness" or "mental disorder" such as "schizophrenia","bipolar affective disorder", and "personality disorder".
10. Because psychiatrists compound this fraud by falsely claiming, without scientific proof, that these "mental disorders" are caused by a "biochemical imbalance" in the brain, genetic factors or "genetic predispositions", despite the fact that there are no genetic factors in "mental illness".
11. Because psychiatrists frequently misinform their patients, families and the public by claiming that brain-disabling procedures such as the neurotoxins (e.g.,"antipsychotic medication" and "antidepressasnts"), electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroconvulsive therapy/"ECT"), psychosurgery (lobotomy) and other behaviour modification-mind control procedures are "safe, effective and lifesaving". The exact opposite is tragically true.
12. Because psychiatrists routinely deceive or lie to patients, prisoners, their families, and the public.
13. Because psychiatrists routinely and wilfully violate the medical-ethical principle of "informed consent" by misinforming or not informing their patients about the numerous toxic, disabling and frequently permanent effects of the neuroleptics such as memory loss, tardive dyskinesia, tardive psychosis, parkinsonism, dementia (all signs of brain damage), and death.
14. Because psychiatrists routinely threaten, intimidate or coerce many patients - particularly women, children, the elderly, and prisoners - into consenting to health-threatening/brain-damaging "treatment" such as the antidepressants, neuroleptics, electroconvulsive brainwashing, and hi-risk experiments.
15. Because psychiatrists frequently fail to fully inform psychiatric inmates and prisoners about existing safe and humane, non-medical alternatives in the community such as survivor-controlled crisis centres, drop-ins, self-help or advocacy groups, diet, massage, holistic medicine, affordable supportive housing, and jobs.
16. Because psychiatrists are sexist in frequently stereotyping women in crisis as "hysterical" or "over-emotional", blaming women whenever they voice real complaints and assertively express their feelings and emotions, prescribing massive doses of tranquilizers and antidepressants to disproportionately large numbers of women, and in sexually assaulting women in their offices and institutions.
17. Because psychiatrists, particularly white male psychiatrists, are homophobic - the American Psychiatric Association (APA) once labelled homosexuality as a "mental illness" or "mental disorder" - and have used forced electroshock on lesbians, trying to coerce them into adopting a heterosexual life style.
18. Because psychiatrists are ageist in prescribing tranquilizers, antidepressants ("medication") and electroconvulsive brainwashing for disproportionately large numbers of elderly people - a form of elder abuse.
19. Because psychiatrists are racist in disproportionately incarcerating and drugging people of African descent, aboringal people, other people of colour and labelling them "psychotic" or "schizophrenic".
20. Because psychiatrists routinely violate people's civil rights, human rights and constitutional rights such as imprisoning innocent people without court trial or public hearing ("involuntary commitment"), and subjecting them to cruel and unusual punishments or tortures such as forced drugging, electroconvulsive brainwashing, psychosurgery, solitary confinement, "chemical restraints", and 4-point or 5-point restraints.
21. Because psychiatrists masterminded the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people including disabled children, the elderly and psychiatric patients during The Holocaust in Nazi Germany, and "selected" hundreds of thousands of concentration camp prisoners for death ("T-4 euthanasia" program) - historical facts still missing in psychiatric textbooks and histories.
22. Because psychiatrists have willingly participated in and administered mind-control experiments in the United States and Canada since the early 1950s - its chief targets have been poor patients, women, dissidents and prisoners.
23. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is based on the 3 Fs: Fear, Fraud, and Force.
24. Because psychiatry is a form of social control or punishment - not treatment.
25. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is fascist - a direct threat to democracy, human rights and life.

I find it hard to dispute any of those. In fact, I would endorse the abolition of psychiatry for what it is - a pseudoscience.

[bob_jones]

Excerpted from:


"The case against antipsychotic drugs: a 50-year record of doing more harm than good," by Robert Whitaker, author of Mad In America: Bad Medicine, Bad Science and the Enduring Mistreatment of the Mentally Ill.
Published in the journal Medical Hypotheses (2004)
62, 5–13
Preclinical


1883 Phenothiazines developed as synthetic dyes.
1934 USDA develops phenothiazines as insecticide.
1949 Phenothiazines shown to hinder rope-climbing abilities in rats.
1950 Rhone Poulenc synthesizes chlorpromazine, a phenothiazine, for use as an anesthetic.
Clinical history/standard neuroleptics
1954 Chlorpromazine, marketed in the US as Thorazine, found to induce symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
1955 Chlorpromazine said to induce symptoms similar to encephalitis lethargica.
1959 First reports of permanent motor dysfunction linked to neuroleptics, later named tardive dyskinesia.
1960 French physicians describe a potentially fatal toxic reaction to neuroleptics, later named neuroleptic malignant syndrome.
1962 California Mental Hygiene Department determines that chlorpromazine and other neuroleptics prolong hospitalization.
1963 Six-week NIMH collaborative study concludes that neuroleptics are safe and effective "antischizophrenic" drugs.
1964 Neuroleptics found to impair learning in animals and humans.
1965 One-year followup of NIMH collaborative study finds drug-treated patients more likely than placebo patients to be rehospitalized.
1968 In a drug withdrawal study, the NIMH finds that relapse rates rise in direct relation to dosage. The higher the dosage that patients are on before withdrawal, the higher the relapse rate.
1972 Tardive dyskinesia is said to resemble Huntington's disease, or "postencephalitic brain damage".
1974 Boston researchers report that relapse rates were lower in pre-neuroleptic era, and that drugtreated patients are more likely to be socially dependent.
1977 A NIMH study that randomizes schizophrenia patients into drug and non-drug arms reports that only 35% of the non-medicated patients relapsed within a year after discharge, compared to 45% of those treated with medication.
1978 California investigator Maurice Rappaport reports markedly superior three-year outcomes for patients treated without neuroleptics. Only 27% of the drug-free patients relapsed in the three years following discharge, compared to 62% of the medicated patients.
1978 Canadian researchers describe drug-induced changes in the brain that make a patient more vulnerable to relapse, which they dub "neuroleptic induced supersensitive psychosis".
1978 Neuroleptics found to cause 10% cellular loss in brains of rats.
1979 Prevalence of tardive dyskinesia in drug-treated patients is reported to range from 24% to 56%.
1979 Tardive dyskinesia found to be associated with cognitive impairment.
1979 Loren Mosher, chief of schizophrenia studies at the NIMH, reports superior one-year and two-year outcomes for Soteria patients treated without neuroleptics.
1980 NIMH researchers find an increase in "blunted effect" and "emotional withdrawal" in drugtreated patients who don't relapse, and that neuroleptics do not improve "social and role performance" in non-relapsers.
1982 Anticholinergic medications used to treat Parkinsonian symptoms induced by neuroleptics reported to cause cognitive impairment.
1985 Drug-induced akathisia is linked to suicide.
1985 Case reports link drug-induced akathisia to violent homicides.
1987 Tardive dyskinesia is linked to worsening of negative symptoms, gait difficulties, speech impairment, psychosocial deterioration, and memory deficits. They conclude it may be both a "motor and dementing disorder".
1992 World Health Organization reports that schizophrenia outcomes are much superior in poor countries, where only 16% of patients are kept continuously on neuroleptics. The WHO concludes that living in a developed nation is a "strong predictor" that a patient will never fully recover.
1992 Researchers acknowledge that neuroleptics cause a recognizable pathology, which they name neuroleptic induced deficit syndrome. In addition to Parkinson's, akathisia, blunted emotions and tardive dyskinesia, patients treated with neuroleptics suffer from an increased incidence of blindness, fatal blood clots, arrhythmia, heat stroke, swollen breasts, leaking breasts, impotence, obesity, sexual dysfunction, blood disorders, skin rashes, seizures, and early death.
1994 Neuroleptics found to cause a swelling of the caudate region in the brain.
1994 Harvard investigators report that schizophrenia outcomes in the US appear to have worsened over past 20 years, and are now no better than in the first decades of 20th century.
1995 "Real world" relapse rates for schizophrenia patients treated with neuroleptics said to be above 80% in the two years following hospital discharge, which is much higher than in pre-neuroleptic era.
1995 "Quality of life" in drug-treated patients reported to be "very poor".
1998 MRI studies show that neuroleptics cause hypertrophy of the caudate, putamen and thalamus, with the increase "associated with greater severity of both negative and positive symptoms".
1998 Neuroleptic use is found to be associated with atrophy of cerebral cortex.
1998 Harvard researchers conclude that "oxidative stress" may be the process by which neuroleptics cause neuronal damage in the brain.
1998 Treatment with two or more neuroleptics is found to increase risk of early death.
2000 Neuroleptics linked to fatal blood clots.
2003 Atypicals linked to an increased risk of obesity, hyperglycemia, diabetes, and pancreatitis.

[apekteina lordosis]

bob as long as you're not exhibiting signs of harming yourself or other people i doubt the nhs would section you. when i feel a bout of "unwellness" coming on i get back on the olanzapine for a month or two and my perception of reality becomes more typical aka back to feeling comfortable and pleasant. now my flavour of schizophrenia is no doubt different to that of others due to the fact the general symptoms are the same aka auditory and/or visual hallucinations, delusions, ideas of reference, failing to look for evidence etc etc, the "experience" those factors conjoin together to create is unique for each individual.

no one can force you to take anti-psychotics unless you were sectioned for your own safety and the safety of others and weren't prepared to talk yourself down on ward with the help and guidance of quacks and nurses.

you are obviously very gifted and as long as you have peace of mind and are happy then you do what ya wanna do, but if that is not the case then please consider at the very least getting a short term prescription of zopiclone (or some other sleeping pill). that would reduce the over-clocking that is going on within yer head and within a couple of weeks at the most you'd feel more "typical". ideally instead of zopiclone you'd plump for a short course of anti-psychotic, as that would be far more effective and you'd probably experience a difference within 36hours.

remember i am saying a "short course" of meds, not long term or life long. believe i ain't a fan at all of the industrial pharmaceutical complex but it's been well over 3 years since i got off-ward and the one thing that has kept me out of hospital is the occasional month/two month course of olanzapine whenever i start to feel unwell.

:)

[cruise4]

"I would endorse the abolition of psychiatry for what it is - a pseudoscience."

+1

I can't see links again for some reason so excuse me if posted already but these are well worth a watch I think....

Making a Killing:
http://www.cchr.org/#/videos/making-a-killing-disease-mongering


which I saw courtesy of this page:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/film-review-generationrx-documents-chemical-abuse-of-children-by-pharmaceutical-industry-modern-psychiatry.html

[apekteina lordosis]

"I would endorse the abolition of psychiatry for what it is - a pseudoscience."

+1

I can't see links again for some reason so excuse me if posted already but these are well worth a watch I think....

Making a Killing:
http://www.cchr.org/#/videos/making-a-killing-disease-mongering


which I saw courtesy of this page:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/film-review-generationrx-documents-chemical-abuse-of-children-by-pharmaceutical-industry-modern-psychiatry.html

if the world was a different place i would completely agree with you, the reality is however is that it isn't. profound changes in people's diets (for the worse) is probably the number one reason why a lot of kids are hyper-active, plus throw in too much tv and video games affecting a developing brain then it is no wonder quacks are knocking out prescriptions. of course the sensible thing for them to do would be to say to parents, no more food and drink with preservatives or additives and no more hours glued to a screen each day. but they don't for whatever reason. any parent worth their salt wouldn't be filling their sprog with garbage in the first place nor allowing them to grow up in front of a tv and a puter monitor.

anyways when it comes to the mind given enough people chewing da meds you will get occasional things going tits-up, and someone somewhere has to take the state of the world and all other factors into consideration and conclude whether mental health meds are worth dishing out. i'd say far more people are helped by meds than the few they don't work for, or go wrong or very occasionally end up killing themselves and/or other people.

the human brain doesn't stop growing til the owner is about 24years old, yet from the age of 18 onwards they can pour as much booze down their throat as they like. as soon as a baby is able to eat solids its parents can fill the babies belly with whatever they like. then you have governments recommending/insisting on vaccinations along the way as the baby grows up and fuck knows what they do to the brains of the injected.

all i am trying to say is that yeah, psychiatric medication may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and yeah sometimes it goes awfully wrong, but for a lot of people it brings massive relief aka it gives them peace of mind, and if you have never experienced not having that, please be careful with promoting the anti-psychiatry line, cos there is the chance someone will buy that line and not seek help when they need it as a result.

[cruise4]

Show me 'ANY' real science behind psychiatry. It's someone's opinion as far as I can tell.

"there is the chance someone will buy that line and not seek help when they need it as a result."

I hope they don't seek help from psychiatrists... ever.

Funny old argument you constructed there. Not a closet psychiatrist are you? If you give 50 people chalk tablets some will swear it has helped them. And it may well have done.

Psychiatry is quackery, fraudulent, a money maker and a tool of eugenicists.

[graflok]

^ Yes, if psychiatry were a valid science, the world
should be getting saner, shouldn't it?

[apekteina lordosis]

Show me 'ANY' real science behind psychiatry. It's someone's opinion as far as I can tell.

"there is the chance someone will buy that line and not seek help when they need it as a result."

I hope they don't seek help from psychiatrists... ever.

Funny old argument you constructed there. Not a closet psychiatrist are you? If you give 50 people chalk tablets some will swear it has helped them. And it may well have done.

Psychiatry is quackery, fraudulent, a money maker and a tool of eugenicists.

i am schizophrenic, at the worst point i was so paralyzed with fear i lay in my soiled bed unable to move for 48hours. when i say not move i am talking about literally being unable to open my eyes, let alone move any of my limbs. when i finally got the courage up to see my consultant he gave me a prescription for olanzapine and within a couple of days i was back to being typical. getting mental health help doesn't have to involve medication anyway, when i went on ward (about 8month before the laying in my own shit and piss episode) i was allowed to "talk myself down", it was only after about 7 weeks that i agreed to try a anti-psychotic medication, risperidone. however it turned me into a zombie, so i stopped taking it. olanzapine is the one that works for me, thus when i start to feel unwell, i take it for a month or two. apart from putting on shedloads of weight, there are no side-effects for me, though there is evidence of olanzapine being associated with users developing diabetes hence one of the reasons why i don't use it all the time. the other main thing with the flavour of schizoids i have is i quite enjoy the "experience" most of the time, thus i don't really want to inhibit it by taking medication.

aka i am talking about this from personal insight, perhaps you could please explain from what experiences your stance stems from.

[middleway00]

Well, i dont need to read anything to know psychiatry is bunk and has poor evidence. And ethically : just go to an in-patient situation and talk to the patients. This is blatent mind-control (enforcing for example, materialist beleifs), and blatent breech of human rights.

Dark age indeed. This stuff is both very sick, unproven, and actually holding society in like sheep in a pen. (and i studied psychology.....the mental illness/chemical theory of illness etc is extremely weak and made up, as well as basically facist)

+1!!!!!!!

+1!

[middleway00]

i am schizophrenic, at the worst point i was so paralyzed with fear i lay in my soiled bed unable to move for 48hours. when i say not move i am talking about literally being unable to open my eyes, let alone move any of my limbs. when i finally got the courage up to see my consultant he gave me a prescription for olanzapine and within a couple of days i was back to being typical. getting mental health help doesn't have to involve medication anyway, when i went on ward (about 8month before the laying in my own shit and piss episode) i was allowed to "talk myself down", it was only after about 7 weeks that i agreed to try a anti-psychotic medication, risperidone. however it turned me into a zombie, so i stopped taking it. olanzapine is the one that works for me, thus when i start to feel unwell, i take it for a month or two. apart from putting on shedloads of weight, there are no side-effects for me, though there is evidence of olanzapine being associated with users developing diabetes hence one of the reasons why i don't use it all the time. the other main thing with the flavour of schizoids i have is i quite enjoy the "experience" most of the time, thus i don't really want to inhibit it by taking medication.

aka i am talking about this from personal insight, perhaps you could please explain from what experiences your stance stems from.

did your experience as a schizo get worse before or after medical assistance?

[apekteina lordosis]

^ Yes, if psychiatry were a valid science, the world
should be getting saner, shouldn't it?

it's the repression and problems of the world that cause most people to become schizophrenic in the first place. plus some believe diet plays a major part as well. i look at the state of the world and think that it's most of those not diagnosed as schizophrenic who should be on medication, not people like me.

basically speaking the severity of schizophrenia comes in three shades-

1. one single psychotic episode, "sufferer" reverts back to being "typical" for the rest of their days.

2. sporadic psychotic episodes for the rest of their life, "sufferer" gains insight with each one and learns how to see them at the pass, so to speak, before a full on episode kicks in.

3. full on headbanging 24/7 perpetual psychotic episode til they die. "sufferer" spends most if not all their life from point of initial diagnosis in an acute forensic aka secure mental health ward.

for da record i weigh in as a shade "2", and i thank whoever for that. wouldn't want to be a "1" (quite enjoy where this "path" is taking me), and very obviously wouldn't want to be a "3". plenty of schizophrenics wouldn't feel the same way about this disease of the mind (as the quacks see it) as i do, but then again many of them don't listen to what the doctors say to them, for example many continue to use cannabis and other "drugs" despite being advised that it is best to knock such things on da head.

"if you talk to god it's called praying, but if god talks to you it's called schizophrenia" perhaps sums it up. poor the second coming if they do turn up, the chances are they will end up getting sectioned. funny that, how there's probably a billion people on this planet who believe in jesus christ yet anyone exhibiting signs of having a seriously profound religious experience ends up being prescribed anti-psychotics, unless of course it's the "right" type of profound religious experience, that leads to them contributing on a weekly basis to their local repair-the-church-roof fund or making regular donations to the republican party.

anti-psychotic medications may not being making the world a saner place, but for the majority of people who use them it allows them to continue functioning on this shithole of a planet. people on this scene point the finger at the msm when muslims get blamed for this or that terrorist outrage and scream bullshit, yet they are quite happy to employ a similar msm modus operandi when having a pop at mental health medications. sure some top themselves, but they might have done that anyway if they hadn't taken the meds. and very very occasionally someone gets gun happy and takes a few people out. but in the grand scheme of things, the large majority of people using anti-psychotics don't end up killing themselves or anyone else.

[apekteina lordosis]

did your experience as a schizo get worse before or after medical assistance?

well i went "on ward" voluntarily thus the medical staff were happy to respect my wish not to use medication, as at that point in time i had strong views against them (like plenty of people on the conspiracy scene have). anyways i talked myself down via weekday daily sessions (mainly with the registrar) and after about 7 weeks she suggested medication options and i agreed to try risperidone. about a week later i was discharged and went home and continued taking the meds. however after less than a week i started to find i felt like a total zoned out zombie so stopped taking them. for a few month i was relatively well but about 6month after getting out of hospital i became very unwell over a period of a couple of weeks (far worse than when i had gone on ward previously). once i managed to get the spunk together to get an emergency appointment at the mental health hospital i saw a quack and they suggested i try another anti-psychotic called olanzapine. ironically enough despite my pleas to be admitted on ward he refused and just said try the olanzapine, see how yer get on. within about 48hours i was just about back to being "typical" aka absolutely no uncomfortable or unpleasant thoughts/perceptions. the meds gave me serious relief, believe- delusions and schizophrenic perception can be very, very powerful.

that's the thing with anti-psychotics, for the doctor it's a sort of very well educated guess and trial and error til the patient finds the one or combo that suits them best, though sometimes the patient, like myself for example, can be stubborn about going thru the process til the nasty side of an episode kicks in. so to answer your question middleway, no i highly doubt my less than two weeks of risperidone played any part whatsoever concerning the worst experience schizophrenia has dealt me.

[middleway00]

well i went "on ward" voluntarily thus the medical staff were happy to respect my wish not to use medication, as at that point in time i had strong views against them (like plenty of people on the conspiracy scene have). anyways i talked myself down via weekday daily sessions (mainly with the registrar) and after about 7 weeks she suggested medication options and i agreed to try risperidone. about a week later i was discharged and went home and continued taking the meds. however after less than a week i started to find i felt like a total zoned out zombie so stopped taking them. for a few month i was relatively well but about 6month after getting out of hospital i became very unwell over a period of a couple of weeks (far worse than when i had gone on ward previously). once i managed to get the spunk together to get an emergency appointment at the mental health hospital i saw a quack and they suggested i try another anti-psychotic called olanzapine. ironically enough despite my pleas to be admitted on ward he refused and just said try the olanzapine, see how yer get on. within about 48hours i was just about back to being "typical" aka absolutely no uncomfortable or unpleasant thoughts/perceptions. the meds gave me serious relief, believe- delusions and schizophrenic perception can be very, very powerful.

that's the thing with anti-psychotics, for the doctor it's a sort of very well educated guess and trial and error til the patient finds the one or combo that suits them best, though sometimes the patient, like myself for example, can be stubborn about going thru the process til the nasty side of an episode kicks in. so to answer your question middleway, no i highly doubt my less than two weeks of risperidone played any part whatsoever concerning the worst experience schizophrenia has dealt me.

well i'm glad you're ok. you could say i'm a bit paranoid about the medical industry in general. where ever there's money to be made, people will be made to suffer.:(

[apekteina lordosis]

well i'm glad you're ok. you could say i'm a bit paranoid about the medical industry in general. where ever there's money to be made, people will be made to suffer.:(

aye i agree with you middleway, it's just a case that anti-psychotics do work for many people but sometimes on this conspiracy scene some people do end up going a bit nutjob but loathe to get medical help cos of the stuff they've read about the industrial medical complex, thus they end up getting more and more unwell. it's all too easy for "armchair experts" to post this and that link about the negatives when the reality is they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and that's a dangerous thing to be doing, as it might stop people who have become unwell from seeking professional medical advice, and like i said in a previous post that advice won't necessarily be a suggestion to use medication.

[drael]

As a diagnosed bi-polar i have to say my experience was the opposite.

All they really provide is a numbing of the symptoms, not a treatment for the cause, like in psychodynamics, like Jung.

Inpatient is less than helpful. Crazy people do not help u get sane, and doctors etc dont listen to your experiences.

Its like one big denial.

That said, in absolute crisis medicines can help, but it should be completely elective, not even forcefully suggested. After all people in mental health services are suggestible anyways. I wouldt recommend inpatient though. They can hold you there, and a positive loving enviroment is better, like freinds or family - if they can handle u being wacky for awhile till ur meds kick in or it passes, whatevers wisest. I also highly recommend anyone to seek an understanding of their experience, rather than dismiss it. This helps u gain awareness and control.

Just realise how primitive our understanding of what mental illness even is..it came from greeks calling woman hysterical.

[thethirdeye]

This is intresty theme... I am psychiatrist and psychologist in my country... And I like the antipsychiatric organisations as Scientology etc... Intresty combination....
This is the all point... While psychiatry is talking about the "lows" of the physical body, it explains some of the things that are common in the body conciousness, but it forgets that human beings aren't machines, even they act like that... Psyche, means spirit, but psychology is concetrated on the body conciousness more, than the spirit....

Scientology explains that with the engrams that ocupate the reactive mind and make people thing somehow... It is not similar with the psychiatry.. no... not at all. It is against elektroshoks of the brain and many barbaric psychiatric acts....

Yes Dianetics is psychology, everything that is talking about the mind... is psychology or psychiatry... but it is against the Psychiatry and Psychology-the selfcalled sciences... that have nothing to do with the real psychology or psychiatry....

Well the worst thing is that psychiatry is concetrated on medicaments and drugs more,and it is trying to cure the simptom, not the reason... If someone is schizophrenic, you won't resolve his subconcious problems if you give him antipsychotic medications...

peace..:D

[apekteina lordosis]

As a diagnosed bi-polar i have to say my experience was the opposite.

All they really provide is a numbing of the symptoms, not a treatment for the cause, like in psychodynamics, like Jung.

Inpatient is less than helpful. Crazy people do not help u get sane, and doctors etc dont listen to your experiences.

Its like one big denial.

That said, in absolute crisis medicines can help, but it should be completely elective, not even forcefully suggested. After all people in mental health services are suggestible anyways. I wouldt recommend inpatient though. They can hold you there, and a positive loving enviroment is better, like freinds or family - if they can handle u being wacky for awhile till ur meds kick in or it passes, whatevers wisest. I also highly recommend anyone to seek an understanding of their experience, rather than dismiss it. This helps u gain awareness and control.

Just realise how primitive our understanding of what mental illness even is..it came from greeks calling woman hysterical.

i think you make good points, for example when i was on ward all those who were there due to depression made the point that they'd rather be on a ward where the only patients on it were those being treated for depression. mine was mixed sex too, though the sleeping arrangements were seperated by gender and for many of the women they felt extra vulnerable due to having big hairy blokes wondering round "high" (and occasionally naked). i guess it depends where you live and how the health service is provided. when i was on ward grampian nhs were having a drive on mental health and obesity, meaning extra funds and focus for those departments. plus with different countries having different ways of funding health care there is bound to be a difference in treatment and how patients perceive the treatment/care they receive. in terms of the uk, if you volunteer to go onward/in-patient then doctors can't insist on you taking meds (though perhaps krakhead on chance of reading this could clarify that point). however if you are sectioned they can "jab" a patient up if they won't gobble pills (though i don't think they give people a needle unless it is absolutely necessary).

as for tracing the root cause of mental illness i totally agree, personally speaking i kinda know where it all stems from for moi, however the issue in the uk is that the nhs doesn't have the funds for psycho-analysis aka prolonged and frequent sessions on da couch nor the staff to do so. plus the nhs are a bit iffy about that due to liability issues cos if it isn't done right it can be very dangerous for the patient and potentially people who know or have known them.

[cruise4]

"aka i am talking about this from personal insight, perhaps you could please explain from what experiences your stance stems from."

I have direct personal experience that resulted in a head tremor and zero mention of this possible side effect and I have a number of friends on some of these medications... every single one of them is totally screwed up from some of this stuff. It's obvious to everyone around them but they think it's essential to their lives when in fact it ruins it.

As for your personal case... there's a massive amount of background information that would need to be examined to comment on yours. People have problems of course. But I think there are other causes and psychiatry is just a useful manipulative exercise for the ptb.

Did you watch that video I posted? There's plenty more.

[apekteina lordosis]

"aka i am talking about this from personal insight, perhaps you could please explain from what experiences your stance stems from."

I have direct personal experience that resulted in a head tremor and zero mention of this possible side effect and I have a number of friends on some of these medications... every single one of them is totally screwed up from some of this stuff. It's obvious to everyone around them but they think it's essential to their lives when in fact it ruins it.

As for your personal case... there's a massive amount of background information that would need to be examined to comment on yours. People have problems of course. But I think there are other causes and psychiatry is just a useful manipulative exercise for the ptb.

Did you watch that video I posted? There's plenty more.

would you feel comfortable enough to mention what the medication was? it might be useful for others to know should they find themselves having some quack suggest they use it in the future (or be using it already).

i knew absolutely nowt about the diabetes issues with olanzapine (zyprexa) and the manufacturers, eli-lilly, are quite swift at taking down websites that publish the details of the court cases they lost. when i mentioned this to my consultant and cpn they acknowledged they were aware of the risks of users developing diabetes. if it wasn't for the fact i have a good relationship with these people i would have kicked up a stink.

there's a fine fella i know who is paranoid schizophrenic, quite often i'll see him shuffling along the street and it is obvious the meds he is taking have some fairly serious side-effects. he's aware of this too but his opinion it that he'd rather be that way than walking about carrying a kitchen knife due to the paranoia. so i can totally agree with ya that yeah, medications can and do "ruin" the lives of some people who use them, but due to the limitations of the nhs the only choice many have is that of being between a rock and a hard place.

all i really want to say to people is that if you are finding your headspace uncomfortable and unpleasant don't zilch seeking medical advice as an option aka keep yer options open and try to stay smart. if you acknowledge to a doctor that you are having issues they are far more able to qualify that you are mentally capable of the decision to insist on not using meds. if you say you think some time in a "safe" space like a mental health ward can provide would allow you to gather your thoughts the doctor is far more likely to not only get you a bed, but see to it that your wish for meds not to be used is respected. because that is the harsh reality if your head goes nutjob and you don't deal with it, eventually you will highly likely end up getting sectioned and put onto medication whether you like it or not. it ain't right, it ain't fair, but that is the reality you'll find yourself in.

[thetonic]

Here is my form of therapy I would prescribe to anyone feeling a bit 'off'

1. Take said person to a beautiful isolated spot in woods

2. Take away all their drugs / meds

3. Leave them out in the woods with nothing but water/ nuts & berries and shit for at least a week and let them detox

4. Come back and check on them ... They most likely will never want to go back to 'the sane world of mondern society'

end

[thetonic]

By the way... the illuminati love psychiatry(they should they invented it)... Helps them easily explain away and displace the truth of your emotions and uneasiness you feel about what they are doing (killing earth & its people, ritually sacrificing/abusing, overly sexualizing everything so they can harvest the energy, etc...)

[cruise4]

"would you feel comfortable enough to mention what the medication was"

I genuinely cannot remember. I think it began with T :D It was only for 8 weeks or so then I slung them away as I realised the score somewhat. It appears it's when people stop their medication that violence issues arise. Which goes great with their 'You must need it then'... but no, the reality is they never should have been on it in the first place. Like Heroin. I say all psychiatry is mis-diagnosis... but people must be careful now this social catastrophe is already in full swing. Stop... but stop carefully not all at once.

I had a habit of picking up stray people occasionally. For example there was a guy at a party once and he was homeless living wherever he could. Seemed a decent bloke so I put him up at my place. I had the floorboards up for some job I was doing in the room he slept in and first off he had a problem with me nailing them back down. I thought it was dangerous and nailed them down anyway. In hindsight though I can see his point. It was unusual and an interesting change. Whilst I was pruning a tree he came running out shouting about how the birds were calling me a bastard... but perhaps they were and in reality if it wasn't for the dictates of society I wouldn't be touching the tree. I went into his room one day and he had laid out all the fag butts and ash into neat little piles in the hearth. Despite his moaning I cleaned it up but again in hindsight I had completely missed the work of art that his graphic design actually was. Another time he was dressed in old style velvet jacket and stuff and I had a go at his dress sense but really I was being cowardly and didn't appreciate 'differences'.

My point is society dictates what is 'normal' and it's easy to adopt such views as your own. But now I will think twice and try to see past 'my' preconceptions. Plus there was nothing really wrong with him... but he'd endured some shocking treatment at the hands of so called psychiatrists. He was just a bit different and society helped crush this free spirit doing unusual things.

BTW this was all pre-wake-up to this conspiracy stuff.

[thetonic]

I had a habit of picking up stray people occasionally. For example there was a guy at a party once and he was homeless living wherever he could. Seemed a decent bloke so I put him up at my place. I had the floorboards up for some job I was doing in the room he slept in and first off he had a problem with me nailing them back down. I thought it was dangerous and nailed them down anyway. In hindsight though I can see his point. It was unusual and an interesting change. Whilst I was pruning a tree he came running out shouting about how the birds were calling me a bastard... but perhaps they were and in reality if it wasn't for the dictates of society I wouldn't be touching the tree. I went into his room one day and he had laid out all the fag butts and ash into neat little piles in the hearth. Despite his moaning I cleaned it up but again in hindsight I had completely missed the work of art that his graphic design actually was. Another time he was dressed in old style velvet jacket and stuff and I had a go at his dress sense but really I was being cowardly and didn't appreciate 'differences'.


There you go!!! As long as you can remember these experiences you can come back to them and extract the meaning behind them and why they happened to you, even if they happened when you were "not awake" ... You will greatly accelerate your learning/knowledge by doing this cruise

[apekteina lordosis]

By the way... the illuminati love psychiatry(they should they invented it)... Helps them easily explain away and displace the truth of your emotions and uneasiness you feel about what they are doing (killing earth & its people, ritually sacrificing/abusing, overly sexualizing everything so they can harvest the energy, etc...)

yes it is all very well saying those things but for someone experiencing their first psychotic episode all your thoughts about the "illuminati" presented above is going to do is scare them more shitless.

schizophrenia is not like a broken arm or a dose of the flu, every waking moment when a schizoid is unwell can be pure hell. it's a disease of the mind, like a bad lsd trip, except for the first timer they don't understand the perception they are experiencing isn't real nor are they gonna come down in a few hours time. episodes can go on for weeks, and the only break they get is when they're asleep, though there ain't much of that due to the thoughts whizzing at such a rate their brain is literally over-clocking thus it is only when extreme exhaustion kicks in does their mind close down. then the cycle repeats and repeats... got that bucko, it can be a living hell.

good luck with your expertly therapy, don't be surprised if the relatives of your "patient", who you returned to find had hung themself in the wilderness, turn up on your doorstep with a shotgun.

perhaps you find people who've gone nutjob amusing, i mean you've sussed what really go on with the world and you've kept your sanity, and if you can cope then "of course" anyone else can. seriously all it will take is one naive doe-eyed blonde-haired 18year old to get involved with spending all their hours on the online conspiracy scene, say on this very forum for example, end up going nutjob, not seek medical help cos they read on here that it was "bad", end up committing suicide, the police get involved, their death hits the msm, politicians react blah blah blah and this place would be history. course twatters like you would exclaim that the young thing who ended their life didn't exist and it was a "illuminati" operation designed to rob you oh so courageous armchair warriors of your truth wielding voices. you wouldn't give a flying fuck if someone with mental health issues had read one of your ill-informed bullshit posts about meds/mental health and gone with it. those who are unwell due to mental illness, especially when it is their first episode, are vulnerable.

many of us can see the faults the world has, and we have ideas of turning it into utopia. meanwhile, in the real world people become mentally unwell on a daily basis and why the hell should they wait for the peace of mind "utopia" would bring them when they can instead just visit a doctor and get fast-acting relief from the torture that is going on in their head.

but back to your doorstep, the father of the deceased is benevolent and just shoots you in the leg, and calls an ambulance. when the paramedics arrive you beg them for pain-relief, you know some concoction whizzed up by that terrible "illuminati" controlled industrial medical complex. you wouldn't have a issue with pain-relief meds then would ya?

[apekteina lordosis]

"would you feel comfortable enough to mention what the medication was"

I genuinely cannot remember. I think it began with T :D It was only for 8 weeks or so then I slung them away as I realised the score somewhat. It appears it's when people stop their medication that violence issues arise. Which goes great with their 'You must need it then'... but no, the reality is they never should have been on it in the first place. Like Heroin. I say all psychiatry is mis-diagnosis... but people must be careful now this social catastrophe is already in full swing. Stop... but stop carefully not all at once.

I had a habit of picking up stray people occasionally. For example there was a guy at a party once and he was homeless living wherever he could. Seemed a decent bloke so I put him up at my place. I had the floorboards up for some job I was doing in the room he slept in and first off he had a problem with me nailing them back down. I thought it was dangerous and nailed them down anyway. In hindsight though I can see his point. It was unusual and an interesting change. Whilst I was pruning a tree he came running out shouting about how the birds were calling me a bastard... but perhaps they were and in reality if it wasn't for the dictates of society I wouldn't be touching the tree. I went into his room one day and he had laid out all the fag butts and ash into neat little piles in the hearth. Despite his moaning I cleaned it up but again in hindsight I had completely missed the work of art that his graphic design actually was. Another time he was dressed in old style velvet jacket and stuff and I had a go at his dress sense but really I was being cowardly and didn't appreciate 'differences'.

My point is society dictates what is 'normal' and it's easy to adopt such views as your own. But now I will think twice and try to see past 'my' preconceptions. Plus there was nothing really wrong with him... but he'd endured some shocking treatment at the hands of so called psychiatrists. He was just a bit different and society helped crush this free spirit doing unusual things.

BTW this was all pre-wake-up to this conspiracy stuff.

that's fair enough, though there is a difference between eccentricity and experiencing a psychotic episode. the reaction of society towards eccentrics when built up over the years can perhaps lead to eccentrics becoming mentally unwell. the point is a lot of the onus of mental health issues can be pointed at the way our oh so wondeful society is, but for someone experiencing their first episode they haven't got the luxury of sitting around and enduring the mental anguish til the world rights itself.

i am not denying awful things go on relating to "mental health", and that people who might have been eccentric but perfectly harmless haven't been completely fucked up by quacks and their bag of meds. all i am saying is that for a lot of people the meds make their daily existence bearable, and thus we shouldn't be encouraging the limitation of options.

[cruise4]

"but for someone experiencing their first episode they haven't got the luxury of sitting around and enduring the mental anguish til the world rights itself."

I can agree with that, and wish we had the time and energy to really get to the bottom of what things such as psychotic episodes actually are and what really causes them and how to safely and effectively deal with it.

But we haven't, so people will have to do whatever they think fit. I just encourage everyone to get educated on the subject, not just believe everything some quack tells you.

I had a shocking, to me, conversation with a parent recently. Her teenage daughter is seeing a psychiatrist. In a recent consultation a child/parent deal was struck whereby the child was allowed one bottle of vodka at the weekends, so many splifs in the week and ecstasy tablets now and again. That may not be exact but it's roughly right. (I know it sounds unbelievable but it's true). I would guess she is also on some sort of meds, but I don't know that.

This is a 15 year old girl, bear in mind and this is at the schools suggestion/demand. Her mother is on anti-depressants long term and swears she needs them but is actually somewhat brain dead compared to what she would be like without them. These meds are insidious. They work initially and then start having the opposite effects, but by then the user thinks it's the bees knees. They aren't.

The whole situation is ludicrous! The reality is there is nothing wrong with her, or her mother, bar desperation to kill the pain of our screwed up environment we allow for kids.

[thetonic]

yes it is all very well saying those things but for someone experiencing their first psychotic episode all your thoughts about the "illuminati" presented above is going to do is scare them more shitless.

Point taken although I doubt I would be talking about the illuminati to someone having a schizophrenic episode

schizophrenia is not like a broken arm or a dose of the flu, every waking moment when a schizoid is unwell can be pure hell. it's a disease of the mind, like a bad lsd trip, except for the first timer they don't understand the perception they are experiencing isn't real nor are they gonna come down in a few hours time. episodes can go on for weeks, and the only break they get is when they're asleep, though there ain't much of that due to the thoughts whizzing at such a rate their brain is literally over-clocking thus it is only when extreme exhaustion kicks in does their mind close down. then the cycle repeats and repeats... got that bucko, it can be a living hell.

I have dealt with these things on a personal level..ie. psychosis, schizoprhenia, mental collapse etc..

I have also much experience with pharmacuticals of all types

In essence im arguing that the immediate relief of meds is just the same bandaid over the bullethole solution that most westerners go for... You arent solving anything, only switching your problems to the new 'drug' problems and sidde effects and dependencies... Drugs are fine if you dont intend on ever being cured of the illness

By the way their are natural remedies out there.. Ever look into herbal medicines/acupuncture/physical therapies?

good luck with your expertly therapy, don't be surprised if the relatives of your "patient", who you returned to find had hung themself in the wilderness, turn up on your doorstep with a shotgun.


Never know til we try it right? Would you like to be the first guinea pig;)

perhaps you find people who've gone nutjob amusing, i mean you've sussed what really go on with the world and you've kept your sanity, and if you can cope then "of course" anyone else can. seriously all it will take is one naive doe-eyed blonde-haired 18year old to get involved with spending all their hours on the online conspiracy scene, say on this very forum for example, end up going nutjob, not seek medical help cos they read on here that it was "bad", end up committing suicide, the police get involved, their death hits the msm, politicians react blah blah blah and this place would be history.

Nutters amusing? No, not really I think its sad... Actually the info/disinfo on this website truly does have the potential to fly you over the cookoos nest. Are you sure you should be here?

course twatters like you would exclaim that the young thing who ended their life didn't exist and it was a "illuminati" operation designed to rob you oh so courageous armchair warriors of your truth wielding voices. you wouldn't give a flying fuck if someone with mental health issues had read one of your ill-informed bullshit posts about meds/mental health and gone with it. those who are unwell due to mental illness, especially when it is their first episode, are vulnerable.

This could really go either way... Take the advice of a doctor/pysch and end up a veggie worthless pile in a wheelchair the rest of your days... SOunds too good to be true for you I guess...

many of us can see the faults the world has, and we have ideas of turning it into utopia. meanwhile, in the real world people become mentally unwell on a daily basis and why the hell should they wait for the peace of mind "utopia" would bring them when they can instead just visit a doctor and get fast-acting relief from the torture that is going on in their head.

Anywho I was talking about healing permanantley , not fast-acting temporary relief

but back to your doorstep, the father of the deceased is benevolent and just shoots you in the leg, and calls an ambulance. when the paramedics arrive you beg them for pain-relief, you know some concoction whizzed up by that terrible "illuminati" controlled industrial medical complex. you wouldn't have a issue with pain-relief meds then would ya?

I used to be quite fond of pain killers...Morphine in particular, very hard to synthesize in a lab so its usually the real deal ie.. drug trade from Afghanistan (damn those illuminati:mad:)

[apekteina lordosis]

"but for someone experiencing their first episode they haven't got the luxury of sitting around and enduring the mental anguish til the world rights itself."

I can agree with that, and wish we had the time and energy to really get to the bottom of what things such as psychotic episodes actually are and what really causes them and how to safely and effectively deal with it.

But we haven't, so people will have to do whatever they think fit. I just encourage everyone to get educated on the subject, not just believe everything some quack tells you.

indeed. i think diet can be a factor as well, i was reading the synopsis of some research book recently and the author was suggesting the lack of fish fats in our modern diet might well be playing a part in the rise of mental health cases. well more a case of fish fat being replaced with other types of fat. back on formative experiences aka perhaps the root cause of episodes i think it is harder for some to understand depending on their level of intelligence and education plus the sort of surroundings they were brought up in. if violence was common and not limited to them being on the receiving end they will percieve a violent upbringing to be normal thus have greater trouble comprehending it is the root of their issues. i am sure plenty of doctors want to suggest other stuff to their patients, but are limited by the nhs due to liability issues. my registrar for example on replying to me telling her i was gonna miss not being able to smoke da ganja, said that cannabis use might in fact help me, as long as i kept control of it, though she ended the sentence with a "that's strictly off the record". (though just cos she said that to me doesn't mean to say she would comment like that to all her patients)




I had a shocking, to me, conversation with a parent recently. Her teenage daughter is seeing a psychiatrist. In a recent consultation a child/parent deal was struck whereby the child was allowed one bottle of vodka at the weekends, so many splifs in the week and ecstasy tablets now and again. That may not be exact but it's roughly right. (I know it sounds unbelievable but it's true). I would guess she is also on some sort of meds, but I don't know that.

This is a 15 year old girl, bear in mind and this is at the schools suggestion/demand. Her mother is on anti-depressants long term and swears she needs them but is actually somewhat brain dead compared to what she would be like without them. These meds are insidious. They work initially and then start having the opposite effects, but by then the user thinks it's the bees knees. They aren't.

The whole situation is ludicrous! The reality is there is nothing wrong with her, or her mother, bar desperation to kill the pain of our screwed up environment we allow for kids.

no one wants a 15year old downing vodka, on spliff and popping ecstasy, i can only think the psychiatrist was trying to bring some control of substance use into the girls life. one bottle of vodka at the weekend is a "better" situation that one bottle every night of the week for example.

as for the mother that highlights the importance of learning to adopt different coping strategies, as it seems she has become addicted to the anti-depressants. will be hard for her to work out what alternative ways of coping work for her as her impression of her depression will have been altered by her long term use of medication. i guess the thing with alternative coping strategies is for that notion to be introduced to the patient at the earliest stage possible, though sadly as we know that's something the nhs doesn't always do or do at all.

totally agree about the screwed up environment comment, it's all pretty fucked up innit? shitty food and drink, shitty schools, shitty television, people blinded of their potential, short term fixes that create long term issues. perhaps a start re: mental health would be for doctors to stress medication should only be seen as a immediate pain-relief option and for the nhs to provide information and assistance regarding the patient looking within them self to trace the root causes. course the thing stopping that is "money", perhaps it would be easier to just throw the concept of money in the bin...

[apekteina lordosis]

In essence im arguing that the immediate relief of meds is just the same bandaid over the bullethole solution that most westerners go for... You arent solving anything, only switching your problems to the new 'drug' problems and sidde effects and dependencies... Drugs are fine if you dont intend on ever being cured of the illness

By the way their are natural remedies out there.. Ever look into herbal medicines/acupuncture/physical therapies?

absolutely not denying that medication is a band-aid, but the reality of the situation for most people in the uk is the only option they have is the nhs and if someone is experiencing a highly ununpleasant first episode they ain't gonna get pointed in the direction of alternatives, nor will they be in any capable state of looking for them. if we bang on about anti-psychotics being "bad" full stop, people will believe that and not see that a short-term course as immediate pain-relief as being a benefit, generally speaking that is the only thing the nhs offer, whether that be right or wrong. what this thread highlights however is that there are alternative ways of coping, but also that the complete nightmare of a first episode can be dealt with by the use of meds. people don't even have to use anti-psychotics, a short-term course of powerful sleeping pills can do the trick (though i ain't talking about those capsules that smell of shit that health stores sell).



Never know til we try it right? Would you like to be the first guinea pig;)

just as long as i can call you laura, and you call me pa.



Nutters amusing? No, not really I think its sad... Actually the info/disinfo on this website truly does have the potential to fly you over the cookoos nest. Are you sure you should be here?

aye i am sure i should be here. you're right there is a lot of batshit theories out there, and sure some are sort of in the ballpark of truth, but the whole industrial medical/pharmaceutical complex stuff is only gonna confuse someone who might go on to have an epsiode. yeah a lot of their meds are shite and all that, but if your mind is screaming a couple of weeks of anti-psychotic might just save your life.



This could really go either way... Take the advice of a doctor/pysch and end up a veggie worthless pile in a wheelchair the rest of your days... SOunds too good to be true for you I guess...

most things in life come with "risk" and that includes medication. my consultant a while ago suggested the next time i started to become unwell would i consider trying aripiprazole (obviously this was "her" official response to me highlighting the diabetes issues of olanzapine). she showed me the possible side-effects sheet and i laughed when i saw one of them was listed as "instant death". yeah those lawyers like to cover all the bases hey?!
maybe one day we will live in a world where "alternative" treatments are championed and medication is the last resort, for the time being we don't, and medication does work for many people, if it didn't all who have used them would be confined to a wheelchair and drawling whilst they typed via the sole use of a pencil sellotaped to their head.



Anywho I was talking about healing permanantley , not fast-acting temporary relief

and i have quite clearly stated that medication isn't the solution, however it can be a benefit when that first episode rears its very ugly head and the reality for many people it is the only option offered to them, i don't want to discourage people from getting that help as it is highly likely i wouldn't be able to assist them when that first crisis kicked in for them. are you gonna hang around this forum 24/7 looking for the batshit sign in the sky that screams "help me, i am having my first episode but don't want to use medication", no you're not going to be around, nor will i or anyone else. however the nhs will be around and it ain't like doctors aren't trained or anything...

[omegasol]

they gather everything they see out side them self and fit it into a tiny theory within the self and are anable to compromise .

yay! congrats! you just explained how an conspiracy-Forum works!



so the truth is this . they need people to be sick
because thats what their living is based upon !:cool:

true. just like dentists, eye specialists, oncologists, etc. oh! and all those EVIL psychologists force you to consume those psychotropics! to hell with them! let´s all join scientology instead! lol

[element]

Well, i dont need to read anything to know psychiatry is bunk and has poor evidence. And ethically : just go to an in-patient situation and talk to the patients. This is blatent mind-control (enforcing for example, materialist beleifs), and blatent breech of human rights.

Dark age indeed. This stuff is both very sick, unproven, and actually holding society in like sheep in a pen. (and i studied psychology.....the mental illness/chemical theory of illness etc is extremely weak and made up, as well as basically facist)

+1!!!!!!!

So true. +2!!!!!!!!!

[k1barin]

I have been ruled mentally ill in both Iran and USA, and I have been forced medication by the order of psychiatrist. I understand that these medicines are for my own good, but what makes them forced is the fact that psychiatrists have diagnosed me as mentally incapable. I beleive in the examination some psychiatrists ask a scientific question to determine mental capability. I remember two questions like this from two separate psychiatrists. The following is a scientific arguement that my answers to these questions are more close to truth by modern sciences than the psychiatrists' answer.

The first question that one doctor asked me is: "In the old times people were thinking that the Sun rotates around the Earth. Now if I tell you that now scientists beleive that the Earth is rotating around the Sun and it is not that the Sun rotates around the Earth, would you accept that?"

My answer then was and now is that: With the issue of relativity in mind, it depends on the frame of reference. If the observer is located at the Sun, he/she would say that the Earth is rotating around the Sun and since the Earth rotates around itself, people in Earth may think Sun is rotating around them. But equivalently if observer stations Earth as the frame of reference, then he/she would say that the Sun is rotating around the Earth, and since the Sun rotates around itself, the people in the Sun may think that the Earth is rotating around them! All together one person that is not located in the Sun nor the Earth would measure that the Sun and the Earth rotate around each other. One complete rotation of the Earth around the Sun takes 365 days whilst one complete rotation of the Sun around the Earth takes 24 hours. These two times that signify the rotations of the Sun and the Earth around each other are independent. Ofcourse the Sun is much more massive than the Earth. But if the Psychiatrist means mass, he/she should direct his/her question toward mass not the center of rotation. After all there is no center point for the universe to rotate around, and one can not say that one thing is rotating around the other and rule out the other way around. Nowadays relativity plays a great role in sciences, and it is more closer to truth.

The other question that another doctor asked me is: "During the day we can all see that the Sun lights everywhere. Now if I tell you that during the night too every where is lighted from the Sun and not other things, with the exception of stars whose light is not that significant, would you accept that?"

My answer then was and now is that: Nowadays nuclear power plants generate some electric power that some lights are lighted by this power. This energy is nuclear energy stored in the Uranium rocks. Nuclear energy does not originate from the Sun. The light of the Sun itself is from nuclear reaction, and it is not the other way around. So some of the light in the nights come from Uranium rocks, not the Sun.

Both of my answers to these questions were taken by the psychiatrists as signs of my mental incapability.

This article is submitted to be kept in the books.

Thanks for your attention,
Kayvan Barin

[ytch]

I'm "against" psychiatry: In that I consider much of it to be primitive, barbaric and based on false presumptions, and I also consider that in a few decades 20th century psychiatry will be seen as the dark age of human abuse that it was: in this my views are much influenced by minds of genius such as R.D.Laing

But I'm also firmly against the anti-psychiatry movement, because if you scratch beneath the surface you will swiftly find the "church" of Scientology, which is in a full on info-war against psychiatry because it uses techniques and principles of psychiatry itself (essentially right brain mythologising of left brain psychiatric "science") in brainwashing its unfortunate victims/members and like all secret societies it wants to eliminate the knowledge its power is based upon from public circulation

I can only second that, I was searching for help for some good friends of mine, who were imprisoned (with their parents agreement) in these places,
and to my blank horror it seemed, that the most anti- psychiatry- movements are backed by scientology, and it seems they are trying to hide it for, therefor, obvious reasons.

I´ve been in psychiatric "treatment" too, and even if I had some ideas about what´s going on there, I was shocked.

Over the years I met a few people, who worked in those institutions, in all kinds of positions, and they could only back up my experiences and pointaviews.
These places are not made to help people´s mind,
they are human- testing (as in "animal- testing") facilities.

[gaias child]

I also had the most horrific experiences with psychiatric medications.

I was on seroxat for anxiety and depression, and although it worked at first, it then stopped working and then I started becoming worse than I had been originally,it made me OCD made me agitated and suicidal. I was then given anti psychotics which were equally bad, they were horrible they did not do anything, mind you they just gave me any old thing. I attempted suicide on seroxat when Ihad never had feelings of self harm and it blew my pupil put me in coma and I could not walk in the right direction I would fall and food would go over my shoulder instead of my mouth, my speech was slurred, and I've been left with residual problems the doc in A&E told my partner I'd got brain damage, but I was then struck off by a gp in order to deflect from his behaviour, had a psychiatrist report forged on my records, and I was so shocked I complained but nothing happened there was no investigation.

[gjinx]

The psychiatry is one of the worst and most evil powers I have experienced in my life.
I am stuck in it though, since I was 13 they have given me all different kinds of medication. I have stopped with everything a few months ago and I feel my head clearing up. But I have to lie to the doctor that I am still taking them because if I don't they say it's my own fault that I am depressed or having panic attacs. I can't go in to all of it here but I have many many horror stories about the psychiatry.

I couldn't go to school as a child due to family matters and have no education and if I dont go to the psychiatry on almost a daily basis I don't get any money. I am desperate and don't know what to do, I just want to live in freedom and fight for freedom.

[jakemaverick]

gjinx

deepest sympathies, and to the rest who have had similar expereinces....wish i could help.....but can't...if you want another horror story click the sig...

[gjinx]

gjinx

deepest sympathies, and to the rest who have had similar expereinces....wish i could help.....but can't...if you want another horror story click the sig...

I have read a bit of your story wil read the rest tomorrow. My deepest sympathies to you too man!! I really wish I could help you too! I will try to send you some postivie energy atleast.