Robert Anton Wilson

[thirdwave]

Thought I would start one up on RAW.... as he is always worth checking out..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec7O_p64BPY&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkJvwX3A-c&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeo0lQ_uEE8&feature=related

[logic bomb]

The man was a genius.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3946164451851559242&ei=iO7fSKiFI4qwiALh7J2aCw&q=eye+triangle+wilson&hl=en

[krakhead]

3 threads I've previously quoted RAW for..........

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23213

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29961

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29960

And I really wish a lot of forum members would take notice of his ideas - particularly E-Prime (although that appears to confuse most people! ;)), I feel its regular use would make this forum a much more pleasant place.

RAW's writing changed me completely, starting with his book 'Prometheus Rising'

You can d/load a PDF of it here (http://www.325collective.com/prometheus-rising.pdf)

I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I read it every year -sometimes twice - (and have done for 18 years!) and I'm STILL finding it teaches me something!

So - either it's a great book with lots to teach on many levels, OR - I'm a bit slow on the old uptake!

YOU decide! :D

[thirdwave]

He does not really have a set belief system so like you say it can be a handful for some... and he may come across like he does not take it seriously... he does, its just he knows that you can dig your self in a hole with it all...

note how he does not tell people what they should be believing..

[krakhead]

Had a look for some more RAW books available online in case anyone wants to check more of his work out.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3414595/Wilson-Robert-Anton-Masks-of-the-Illuminati
A great quantum detective novel featuring Crowley, Einstein and Joyce - one of my favourites :) It WILL teach you something about yourself!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2847/Robert-Anton-Wilsons-Quantum-Psychology
The 'sequel' to 'Prometheus Rising' - along the same lines, but the exercises in it are more geared to group work.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3444644/Robert-Anton-Wilson-Schrodingers-Cat-Trilogy
Amazing novel! Quantum theory explained! But with extra sex! And drugs! Yay! :D

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3415595/Robert-Anton-Wilson-t-s-o-g-the-Creature-That-Ate-the-Constitution-Ufo-FBI-Mkultra-News-p
A treatise on the idiocy of the 'War on (some) Drugs" - amongst other things

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50207/The-Illuminati-Papers
A nice excerpt from "The Illuminati Papers"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3418196/Mavericks-of-the-Mind?autodown=pdf
A collection of writings by various 'alternative' thinkers, RAW included.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5966308/Principia-Discordia
Hail Bob! Hail Eris! I am an officiated pope of the Discordian Church! Ordained by RAW himself! :D

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50221/Hyatt-Christopher-S-Undoing-Yourself-with-Energized-Meditation-and-Other-Devices
Not by RAW, by Christopher S. Hyatt, a boring speaker, but a great writer! ;) I've gained a lot from this book and thought I may as well put it here. The introduction's by RAW!

[hagbard_celine]

RAW was brilliant and hilariously funny.

In fact he was more than funny. He radiated joy!

Eris be with you, Bob!:cool::D:)

[hagbard_celine]

Thought I would start one up on RAW.... as he is always worth checking out..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec7O_p64BPY&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkJvwX3A-c&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeo0lQ_uEE8&feature=related

I've not seen this one. Thanks, TW.:)

[infinite tea]

3 threads I've previously quoted RAW for..........

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23213

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29961

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29960

And I really wish a lot of forum members would take notice of his ideas - particularly E-Prime (although that appears to confuse most people! ;)), I feel its regular use would make this forum a much more pleasant place.

RAW's writing changed me completely, starting with his book 'Prometheus Rising'

You can d/load a PDF of it here (http://www.325collective.com/prometheus-rising.pdf)

I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I read it every year -sometimes twice - (and have done for 18 years!) and I'm STILL finding it teaches me something!

So - either it's a great book with lots to teach on many levels, OR - I'm a bit slow on the old uptake!

YOU decide! :D

Prometheus rising is brilliant

[krakhead]

Prometheus rising is brilliant

If you'd read it properly, you'd have said, I consider Prometheus Rising to be a brilliant book - rather than attribute it with any degree of IS-ness! :p

Lol! It IS great though! ;)

[krakhead]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XEZtw1yt8Kc

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vtTEK9VqafE

[thirdwave]

he was onto the quantum physics thing quite a while ago....

[jp13]

Brilliant Krakhead, thanks for the links to download RAW's stuff, I have the 3 Illuminatus books in paperback, but I like having it in pdf as well, good site that scrbd.

[krakhead]

Brilliant Krakhead, thanks for the links to download RAW's stuff, I have the 3 Illuminatus books in paperback, but I like having it in pdf as well, good site that scrbd.

No worries! Always glad to spread some good RAW vibes around :)

[jos08]

Someone (krakhead (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/member.php?u=11504)) recommended hid book to me a while ago and I read it twice. I have to say the man is smart and can distinguish between different attitudes and ideas that humans adopt and use as a way of life. The best bit of his book that I liked was about brain washing and how people are brain washed in baptism and in the miltary and everything he presents in his book is simple and understandble to anyone with even very limited knowlege. However, his book prometheus rising is only good to jugle your mind and tell you where to begin and who you shouldn;t just believe anyone. That is the message that I got from the book anyway. Thanks to Klakhead for the recommendation.

[aidan cloney]

hey, i guess you guys have read cosmic trigger? that book started me on the path about 12 years ago...

[infinite tea]

If you'd read it properly, you'd have said, I consider Prometheus Rising to be a brilliant book - rather than attribute it with any degree of IS-ness! :p

Lol! It IS great though! ;)

Lol

[planetsadhana]

just started reading illuminatus trilogy, first "novel" I have read for a while, but good so far:)

[hagbard_celine]

just started reading illuminatus trilogy, first "novel" I have read for a while, but good so far:)

God, you're in for a treat!:cool: I consider it easily the best novel I've ever read! Although not everyone shares my tastes.;) I cried at the end, simply because I didn't want it to end!:D

[krakhead]

How did you get introduced to RAW Haggers? In fact, anyone who's a fan - how did you get introduced to the man and how did it effect you?

[hagbard_celine]

How did you get introduced to RAW Haggers? In fact, anyone who's a fan - how did you get introduced to the man and how did it effect you?


I saw Illuminatus! on a bookself and bought it after a friend recomended it. How did it effect me?:eek: Whew! I don't know where to start!:cool:

[krakhead]

I saw Illuminatus! on a bookself and bought it after a friend recomended it. How did it effect me?:eek: Whew! I don't know where to start!:cool:

Lol! I know just what you mean! :D

What then has been the biggest lesson he's brought you?

[hagbard_celine]

Lol! I know just what you mean! :D

What then has been the biggest lesson he's brought you?

A new kind of joy. Something that I never experienced before. I can't quite put it into words.

[kitchenmatt]

anyone who's a fan - how did you get introduced to the man and how did it effect you?

All of you are introducing him to me right now. How do I feel? Well, very happy that I have such a wonderful resource as this forum and very excited that I am about to embark on something that sounds pretty special to a lot of well respected folk around here. Heres hoping that I can get to grips with it.....:)

[krakhead]

All of you are introducing him to me right now. How do I feel? Well, very happy that I have such a wonderful resource as this forum and very excited that I am about to embark on something that sounds pretty special to a lot of well respected folk around here. Heres hoping that I can get to grips with it.....:)

That's wonderful to hear! :) You have started an interesting (and funny!) journey! :D

[hagbard_celine]

That's wonderful to hear! :) You have started an interesting (and funny!) journey! :D

I envy him in a strange way.:cool: However traumatic the initial waking up proces is, it was the period in my life when I lived life to the full!

Maybe one day I'll find the words I need to describe the "new kind of joy" I felt when I first read RAW. Gobeithio.;)

[krakhead]

I envy him in a strange way.:cool: However traumatic the initial waking up proces is, it was the period in my life when I lived life to the full!

Maybe one day I'll find the words I need to describe the "new kind of joy" I felt when I first read RAW. Gobeithio.;)

A good envy! :) Oh, to have my world turned upside down and inside out so totally all over again would be amazing! :)

Maybe it'll happen again some day! Gobeithio'n wir :D

[hagbard_celine]

A good envy! :) Oh, to have my world turned upside down and inside out so totally all over again would be amazing! :)

Maybe it'll happen again some day! Gobeithio'n wir :D

Well I think I'm begining to understand that "waking up" is not a linear process with a beginning and end. It's an eternal and ever-renewing process. As Ian Crane says: "Everything I've ever done in the past has simply been geared to what I'm doing now. And what I'm doing now is simply geared to what I'll be doing in the future."

So I should not lament. There'll be plenty more rollercoaster rides to come!:cool:

[kitchenmatt]

Almost finished reading Prometheus Rising.

I need to buy a better dictionary:o

There is so much to take in. I'm gonna begin again straight away and this time, have a bit of an attempt at the exercizes. How many of them have you attempted?? Theres a hell of a lot to think about and get through. I can fully understand the neccessity to read it over and over. It feels like pure knowledge that is only obtainable minute piece by minute piece and only if you work hard at it.... maybe I need to start chipping away at that view.

Watched 'The Edge' too on his recommendation. - Fire from Ice etc. Is it all to do with creating and re creating a new reality tunnel for yourself ? Or is that at least part of it ?

I was unceremoniously ripped from my original(?) reality tunnel (at least the reality that I had been carrrying wtih me for most of my adult life) earlier this year (Thank you Mr. Icke*). I'm presuming that the first ordeal is the one that you remember the most.....then after you have got through the first one, it becomes possible to be able to do it again and again until you can manage it at will and eventually without the extreme terror. Like riding a bike - once you have got (through) it (and survived) you can do it (relatively) easily and for the rest of your life.

As soon as I get over this cold I'm gonna have a damn good stab at a bit of Pranayama:D

Apologies for my sheer lack of insight. Any thoughts or pointers would be much appreciated:p

*David was the trigger after a long and winding chain of events leading up to him.

[thirdwave]

Almost finished reading Prometheus Rising.

I need to buy a better dictionary:o

There is so much to take in. I'm gonna begin again straight away and this time, have a bit of an attempt at the exercizes. How many of them have you attempted?? Theres a hell of a lot to think about and get through. I can fully understand the neccessity to read it over and over. It feels like pure knowledge that is only obtainable minute piece by minute piece and only if you work hard at it.... maybe I need to start chipping away at that view.

Watched 'The Edge' too on his recommendation. - Fire from Ice etc. Is it all to do with creating and re creating a new reality tunnel for yourself ? Or is that at least part of it ?

I was unceremoniously ripped from my original(?) reality tunnel (at least the reality that I had been carrrying wtih me for most of my adult life) earlier this year (Thank you Mr. Icke*). I'm presuming that the first ordeal is the one that you remember the most.....then after you have got through the first one, it becomes possible to be able to do it again and again until you can manage it at will and eventually without the extreme terror. Like riding a bike - once you have got (through) it (and survived) you can do it (relatively) easily and for the rest of your life.

As soon as I get over this cold I'm gonna have a damn good stab at a bit of Pranayama:D

Apologies for my sheer lack of insight. Any thoughts or pointers would be much appreciated:p

*David was the trigger after a long and winding chain of events leading up to him.
i know what you mean mate it can be difficult to follow, in fact a couple times i got annoyed when looking a dictionary and then finding out he could have used a much simpler word of the same effect :), defo worth reading more than once..

it shows the reason why freedom is so important as we all have different realities and hungers...

many (you know who's) thought he was an elite worker.. but only because he urges people to think for them sevles and to allow your self to be influenced by other realities... they see it as "mind control"... when mind control is only a case if you are un aware of your mind being effected, not when you are the one doing it...

[kitchenmatt]

he urges people to think for them sevles

Ye, I need to start doing a bit of this.

Thanks Thirdwave........wait just a cotton pickin' minute... Toffler's Third Wave?:D:D:D

[thirdwave]

Ye, I need to start doing a bit of this.

Thanks Thirdwave........wait just a cotton pickin' minute... Toffler's Third Wave?:D:D:D
no probs
not sure what Toffler's Third Wave is??

My nic is named after a crop circle tatoo I have on my arm... there was a arcturian website where they designed them and named it there ... mine was third wave...

what's the Tofflers Third wave?

[humito]

yep his maybee logic is a sensible way to go:cool:

[kitchenmatt]

My nic is named after a crop circle tatoo I have on my arm... there was a arcturian website where they designed them and named it there ... mine was third wave...




Nice!:cool:

re The Third Wave........

Prometheus Rising

Chapter Seventeen - Quantum Evolution

Another perspective on domesticated primate evolution is provided by Alvin Toffler's The Third Wave. For convenience Toffler reduces the muddle of human historyinto a model of three waves. It would be more accurate to referto these "waves" as quantum jumps in energy-coherence level.

The First Wave, Toffler says, took millennia to occur, but it finally transformed the larger part of humanity from the tribal stage (simple hunting-gathering primates) to the stage of largescale agricultural-feudal civilizations.

The Second Wave came much faster and, in a few centuries, transformed almost all of humanity from feudal-agricultural cottage economy to industrial-urban-market economy.

The Third Wave, Toffler says, continues the trend toward acceleration and will happen in only a few decades. We call it "the information explosion," "the post industrial economy," etc. Each wave is faster, by a factor of 10, than the previous wave. And each wave is more total in that it changes more people, changes them more completely, and in the process transforms our concept of human nature and human society.

Each wave that Toffler describes can be considered a new quantum state, with energy levels and reality-dimensions lacking in the previous state and totally unpredictable from the previous state.


All very inspiring stuff:D:D:cool:

[thirdwave]

Nice!:cool:

re The Third Wave........

Prometheus Rising

Chapter Seventeen - Quantum Evolution

Another perspective on domesticated primate evolution is provided by Alvin Toffler's The Third Wave. For convenience Toffler reduces the muddle of human historyinto a model of three waves. It would be more accurate to referto these "waves" as quantum jumps in energy-coherence level.

The First Wave, Toffler says, took millennia to occur, but it finally transformed the larger part of humanity from the tribal stage (simple hunting-gathering primates) to the stage of largescale agricultural-feudal civilizations.

The Second Wave came much faster and, in a few centuries, transformed almost all of humanity from feudal-agricultural cottage economy to industrial-urban-market economy.

The Third Wave, Toffler says, continues the trend toward acceleration and will happen in only a few decades. We call it "the information explosion," "the post industrial economy," etc. Each wave is faster, by a factor of 10, than the previous wave. And each wave is more total in that it changes more people, changes them more completely, and in the process transforms our concept of human nature and human society.

Each wave that Toffler describes can be considered a new quantum state, with energy levels and reality-dimensions lacking in the previous state and totally unpredictable from the previous state.


All very inspiring stuff:D:D:cool:

ahhh ok, well that makes sense as I did read something also like this that implied an awakening.... in waves ..so on...

cheers

above all it just sounded cool :P

i hear it is also a term used for surfers

as for prometheus rising... just bought my self another copy as i gave my other away :).. and it does take a few reads to take it all in as he was a bit of a smart arse ..

[sunya]

Just wanted to jump in and share the RAW love. <3

PM me anyone who wants to chat about matters RAW.

Any suggestions for my next RAW book?

I've done Illuminatus!, Prometheus, Quantum Psychology, Sex Drugs and Magic, Cosmic Trigger, think that's all.

Moar RAW!

[thirdwave]

Just wanted to jump in and share the RAW love. <3

PM me anyone who wants to chat about matters RAW.

Any suggestions for my next RAW book?

I've done Illuminatus!, Prometheus, Quantum Psychology, Sex Drugs and Magic, Cosmic Trigger, think that's all.

Moar RAW!


what did you think of Sex Drugs and Magick?

[sunya]

what did you think of Sex Drugs and Magick?

Damn I must have been still smoking a lot of weed when I read this because I don't remember too much. This is one of the books that I haven't gone back to yet to make notes on the earmarked pages. I think he describes the Hashashins thing at length, also describes a few techniques, though I think I remember being disappointed that not much sex magic got in there. There are a few drug techniques though, and he refers to some tapes you can get of Leary and co. reciting certain texts while you trip. Overall an enjoyable read as you'd expect.

I'm thinking Schrodinger's Cat next. Seems to be the best-known work that I haven't already read.

[pinkfreud]

feeling like a dumbass right now coz i know zilch about RAW's work.

haven't read his material but defo will right about NOW. thanks for those links krakhead.

i'm loving this.

[sunya]

Why can't I see the links?

[thirdwave]

Damn I must have been still smoking a lot of weed when I read this because I don't remember too much. This is one of the books that I haven't gone back to yet to make notes on the earmarked pages. I think he describes the Hashashins thing at length, also describes a few techniques, though I think I remember being disappointed that not much sex magic got in there. There are a few drug techniques though, and he refers to some tapes you can get of Leary and co. reciting certain texts while you trip. Overall an enjoyable read as you'd expect.

I'm thinking Schrodinger's Cat next. Seems to be the best-known work that I haven't already read.

i have Sex drugs and magick but its on my pile... i buy shit loads of books then get busy and they don't get read but over xmas i will get stuck into it...

feeling like a dumbass right now coz i know zilch about RAW's work.

haven't read his material but defo will right about NOW. thanks for those links krakhead.

i'm loving this.

He is very objective and is more about the conspiracy being based on peoples ignorance... his out looks is kind of based on thinking Us, our selves, are the only things we can really know about and control... because of this some think he is a distraction.... figure that out.

Why can't I see the links?

does that sometimes, i think its a bug..

[limelady]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=nx3WvPPGIAE

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yY5r_zox-a8

[aya_rei]

Thanks to this thread, I was finally introduced to this amazing author.

Can't honestly thank enough those who recommended this man's books. I'm still reading Prometheus, but since I picked up, I cannot let go of it yet.

[thirdwave]

Thanks to this thread, I was finally introduced to this amazing author.

Can't honestly thank enough those who recommended this man's books. I'm still reading Prometheus, but since I picked up, I cannot let go of it yet.

worth reading again... as its quite an in depth read...

I like him because he does not tell you what it true or false.... he tells you its all possible and not to become dogmatic about anything... another author you might like who was friends with RAW and published his books is Christopher Hyatt...

[anthony65]

I've got the Illuminatus trilogy waiting to be read, but how am I going to read this without seeing our own Celine Hagbard in my mind? :eek:

The play "Wilhelm Reich in Hell" sounds rather interesting!

[adimon]

"You can read the fnords? Pah, I can write 'em" ;)

[hagbard_celine]

I've got the Illuminatus trilogy waiting to be read, but how am I going to read this without seeing our own Celine Hagbard in my mind? :eek:

The play "Wilhelm Reich in Hell" sounds rather interesting!

As you've worked out by reading it, my username is a character from that book. It without a doubt the best novel I've ever read!:)

but I don't look like the guy in the story! I'm not hairy like he is! Well, not as hairy!

[thirdwave]

I've got the Illuminatus trilogy waiting to be read,

So have I, been on the shelf since I saw how huge it was :) ... to many little books to read first :)

[anthony65]

So have I, been on the shelf since I saw how huge it was :) ... to many little books to read first :)

I just started this morning!

Very entertaining.

Rather bizarre!

But clearly with some deeper knowledge beneath the superficial storyline.

It reminds me of The Hitchhikers Guide....

*** Remember that it was a trilogy, so take it one book at a time...

But from what I've read so far, once you've got going you won't want to stop...

[anthony65]

As you've worked out by reading it, my username is a character from that book. It without a doubt the best novel I've ever read!:)

but I don't look like the guy in the story! I'm not hairy like he is! Well, not as hairy!

I've only just started to read the trilogy, but I already noted the name Hagbard Celine in the summary and reviews...

Hagbard is hairy!

Okay!

New image forming... :D

[thirdwave]

I just started this morning!

Very entertaining.

Rather bizarre!

But clearly with some deeper knowledge beneath the superficial storyline.

It reminds me of The Hitchhikers Guide....

*** Remember that it was a trilogy, so take it one book at a time...

But from what I've read so far, once you've got going you won't want to stop...


I read the first few pages and kept thinking I was having an acid flash back :), so i thought I should get stuck into it when I have a bit of free time to get stuck into it properly!

If they made a film of it , it would be one of those ones you might need to watch a couple more times to know what's was going on...

[anthony65]

I've only just started to read the trilogy, but I already noted the name Hagbard Celine in the summary and reviews...

Hagbard is hairy!

Okay!

New image forming... :D

Anthony Quinn! :D

[hagbard_celine]

I've only just started to read the trilogy, but I already noted the name Hagbard Celine in the summary and reviews...

Hagbard is hairy!

Okay!

New image forming... :D

Actually I'm as bald as a coot!... at least on my head!:D

Hope you enjoy the Trilogy.:) I envy you; I can never read it for the first time again.

[hagbard_celine]

I read the first few pages and kept thinking I was having an acid flash back :), so i thought I should get stuck into it when I have a bit of free time to get stuck into it properly!

If they made a film of it , it would be one of those ones you might need to watch a couple more times to know what's was going on...

It would be a very hard film to produce. However it was adapted into a stage show that was produced once. Jim Broadbent and Ken Campbell starred in it.

[hagbard_celine]

"You can read the fnords? Pah, I can write 'em" ;)


I never quite understood the fnord bit.:confused:

BTW: how long have you been back, Ad. I rather missed disagreeing with somebody who was polite.;)

[hagbard_celine]

Anthony Quinn! :D


http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5470/picture004r.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004r.jpg)

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5315/50anthonyquinn.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50anthonyquinn.jpg)

Nah! :D

[thirdwave]

It would be a very hard film to produce. However it was adapted into a stage show that was produced once. Jim Broadbent and Ken Campbell starred in it.

yeah it would probably have to be done with a huge budget.... and done by someone who totally new the score.. not to mention fantastic actors..

would have liked to check out the stage show!

[kitchenmatt]

Its also sitting on my bookshelf as yet unread:)

If its as good as Schrodingers Cat then it'll be a treat.

Im currently reading Cosmic Trigger and I really wish I had read it 10 years earlier. Then, though, I most probably would not have understood it at all and dismissed it as being utter nonsense. Its tying up a hell of a lot of loose ends for me as well as introducing me to a whole new host of ideas and people.

I feel very honoured to be a part of this world that I didnt even know existed a few years ago.

[anthony65]

Actually I'm as bald as a coot!... at least on my head!:D

Hope you enjoy the Trilogy.:) I envy you; I can never read it for the first time again.

I envy you; I can never read it for the first time again.

I know what you mean! :D

I'm nearly at the end of the first book and this definitely the weirdest, most bizarre read I've ever had!

** Could it be due to this book that I was able to observe myself snoring while my thoughts continued to work in my mind? :eek:

[hagbard_celine]

yeah it would probably have to be done with a huge budget.... and done by someone who totally new the score.. not to mention fantastic actors..

would have liked to check out the stage show!

It was done in the 70's. I'd love to have seen it. Jim Broadbent has won an Oscar and become a household name since then; Ken Campbell continued to star in esoteric comedy. I'll see if I can find a copy of the script.:)

[hagbard_celine]

I envy you; I can never read it for the first time again.

I know what you mean! :D

I'm nearly at the end of the first book and this definitely the weirdest, most bizarre read I've ever had!

** Could it be due to this book that I was able to observe myself snoring while my thoughts continued to work in my mind? :eek:


It's truly "Dischordian" and anarchic! I love that about it:cool:. It breaks all the rules you'd learn at a creative writing class, but it breaks them with breathtaking style. I think I fell in love with Hagbard Celine after I read the flashback scene of him in court trying to stop that dam being built.

[thirdwave]

It was done in the 70's. I'd love to have seen it. Jim Broadbent has won an Oscar and become a household name since then; Ken Campbell continued to star in esoteric comedy. I'll see if I can find a copy of the script.:)

to be honest with all the shit going on today I bet it would be a bit of hit if they done another one...hmmmm funding maybe!? :)

[thirdwave]

no investors here? :)

[hagbard_celine]

Yes, any dramatists out there? Any producers?:cool: It would be an expensive play to produce, but we could all chip in a few bob:cool:.

Anyone with any acting talent for the cast? We'd work for less money than most actors. Can I audition for the part of my namesake?:D;)

[hagbard_celine]

Here's the script!:cool:

http://www.rawilsonfans.com/downloads/Illuminatus.pdf

[krakhead]

Here's the script!:cool:

http://www.rawilsonfans.com/downloads/Illuminatus.pdf

Excellent find there Haggers! :D

[smoking oceanus]

One of things i love about RAW is that he points out how conspiracies can be just as stupid and paranoid as many of them are truthful. If only more people on this forum and in the so-called "truth movement" would entertain this idea.

Plus i really love the idea of being agnostic towards everything. Something i most agree with, with RAW. Its attitute thats always been the foundation of Buddhism and Taoism. and now being employed by modern science.

[thirdwave]

Yes, any dramatists out there? Any producers?:cool: It would be an expensive play to produce, but we could all chip in a few bob:cool:.

Anyone with any acting talent for the cast? We'd work for less money than most actors. Can I audition for the part of my namesake?:D;)

it would be cool :) ... we need to inspire and wealthy people watching! :)

[anthony65]

Actually I'm as bald as a coot!... at least on my head!:D

Hope you enjoy the Trilogy.:) I envy you; I can never read it for the first time again.

No need to envy me any longer! :)

I finished the trilogy at the weekend...

What a blast to use the fashionable vernacular of the past...

Despite the weirdness and bizarrity the main impressions it left were very simple and rather profound...

Funny that...

An incredible read...

Fortunately I'm blessed with a poor memory so I can read and enjoy it again in a couple of years! ;)

[hagbard_celine]

No need to envy me any longer! :)

I finished the trilogy at the weekend...

What a blast to use the fashionable vernacular of the past...

Despite the weirdness and bizarrity the main impressions it left were very simple and rather profound...

Funny that...

An incredible read...

Fortunately I'm blessed with a poor memory so I can read and enjoy it again in a couple of years! ;)

Glad you enjoyed it.:)

It's so chaotic and bizzarre that it's hard to take in in one read. I've gone through it all twice now and still i'll need to read it again.

[anthony65]

Glad you enjoyed it.:)

It's so chaotic and bizzarre that it's hard to take in in one read. I've gone through it all twice now and still i'll need to read it again.

I'd definitely recommend reading the trilogy rather than separately, otherwise you'll spend a lot of time with the wrong idea...

Like when I first read Lord of the Rings and I'd got to the bit about Sam eavesdropping and I thought he was a spy...

I mentioned this to my mates who had read the book and they were gobsmacked... How could anyone have a bad opinion of Sam...

Well....

The Illuminatus Trilogy is weirder than the Lord of the Rings and has much more sex! Trouser expanding sex scenes.... :D Careful now! :rolleyes:

It is a trilogy though.

And a classic.

So they do have a lot in common...

And the Lord of the Rings / Silmarrilion are actually pretty closely related to these books... :cool:

And Narnia! ;)

The Inklings knew what was going on...

Hail Discordia!

Hail Eris!

Aslan! Where are you.... ;)

[anthony65]

Yes, any dramatists out there? Any producers?:cool: It would be an expensive play to produce, but we could all chip in a few bob:cool:.

Anyone with any acting talent for the cast? We'd work for less money than most actors. Can I audition for the part of my namesake?:D;)

Cor...

I wouldn't mind being George Dorn in the stage version...

Stella...

Mavis...

Miss Mao...

** I'd have to discuss it with my wife first though.... :o

[thirdwave]

It would be a very good one to put on .. in fact even a film of it (which would be fucking hard to make) would be good... it would have so much depth to it rather than some of these Hollywood films with little implications here and there...

[hagbard_celine]

Cor...

I wouldn't mind being George Dorn in the stage version...

Stella...

Mavis...

Miss Mao...

** I'd have to discuss it with my wife first though.... :o

Stella was my favourite.;)

Yes, I must remember that Hagbard is the only one who doesn't get laid during the course of the book!:(:p

[hagbard_celine]

It would be a very good one to put on .. in fact even a film of it (which would be fucking hard to make) would be good... it would have so much depth to it rather than some of these Hollywood films with little implications here and there...

I'd love to see a movie of it, but so long as it's done properly. Yes, it would be an incredibly hard book to adapt!:eek: In a way that kept its escance.

[thirdwave]

I'd love to see a movie of it, but so long as it's done properly. Yes, it would be an incredibly hard book to adapt!:eek: In a way that kept its escance.

would have been good for someone like Stanley Kubrick to make!

[hagbard_celine]

would have been good for someone like Stanley Kubrick to make!


Yes we'll have to find someone to channel him!:D

[misterethoughts]

I will definitely check it out! Thanks

[zyphus]

Getting back on the original topic, 'Robert Anton Wilson explains everything' or (Bob exposes his ignorance) is a classic set of 5 cd's that are worth a listen. I like RAW I must admit, sheerly for his consistent humour. He would have ripped a few of the Conspiracy Celebrities had he been around in his prime today, that's for sure..

I do have links for the CD's if anyone genuinely can't presently afford them and would like a listen. Just pm me..

[thirdwave]

Yeah, the fact that when he tells people not to be dogmatic about stuff they think he is trying to brainwash them speaks for its self!

[supertzar]

RAW was more dogmatic than he liked to admit. He constantly claimed that ritual abuse does not exist. Where do all these people with multiple personalities come from then, Mr. Wilson and why did you go on and on like a spokesman for the False Memory Syndrome Foundation?

He pretended that Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Illuminati was The Illuminati and that it probably no longer existed. If it did exist he was all for it, he said because "it is the best system yet."

Looking on RAW's work from the most expanded, unbiased perspective I can muster it appears that his role was an early interceptor of awakening minds. He seemed to guide readers into a pseudo-skeptical/mystic mindset that was enough higher than their everyday consciousness that it seemed like an awakening but was probably more like corralling.

[thirdwave]

RAW was more dogmatic than he liked to admit. He constantly claimed that ritual abuse does not exist. Where do all these people with multiple personalities come from then, Mr. Wilson and why did you go on and on like a spokesman for the False Memory Syndrome Foundation?

He pretended that Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Illuminati was The Illuminati and that it probably no longer existed. If it did exist he was all for it, he said because "it is the best system yet."

Looking on RAW's work from the most expanded, unbiased perspective I can muster it appears that his role was an early interceptor of awakening minds. He seemed to guide readers into a pseudo-skeptical/mystic mindset that was enough higher than their everyday consciousness that it seemed like an awakening but was probably more like corralling.

what books are you referring to?, as i have no idea what you are talking about..

[hagbard_celine]

RAW was more dogmatic than he liked to admit. He constantly claimed that ritual abuse does not exist. Where do all these people with multiple personalities come from then, Mr. Wilson and why did you go on and on like a spokesman for the False Memory Syndrome Foundation?

He pretended that Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Illuminati was The Illuminati and that it probably no longer existed. If it did exist he was all for it, he said because "it is the best system yet."

Looking on RAW's work from the most expanded, unbiased perspective I can muster it appears that his role was an early interceptor of awakening minds. He seemed to guide readers into a pseudo-skeptical/mystic mindset that was enough higher than their everyday consciousness that it seemed like an awakening but was probably more like corralling.

Could be. I was already partly "awake" when I first came across him (I'm still not completely awake yet!:D). I just found him very funny and absolutely adorable.

I disagree with him on many things though. He sometimes says that there cannot be one big conspiracy but several smaller ones. I don't think so. There may be small consopiracies, but it seems to me they're all linked systemically.

[supertzar]

what books are you referring to?, as i have no idea what you are talking about..

Regarding ritual abuse I am referring to numerous interviews I have read where he claims there is no evidence for it, it doesn't exist, it is a conspiracy of recovered memory therapists and so on.

Regarding the promotion of the Bavarian Illuminati as THE Illuminati, just read Cosmic Trigger for example. Or Illuminatus! Or the Historical Illuminatus Chronicles or whatever it's called. Imagine for a moment that RAW created a strawman in the minds of countless heads decades ago in the form of this definition of the Illuminati as being synonymous with the Bavarian Illuminati. Tear the strawman down with perfectly reasonable doubt and many of those people will hold onto the impression that the Illuminati is a thing of the past.

[thirdwave]

Regarding ritual abuse I am referring to numerous interviews I have read where he claims there is no evidence for it, it doesn't exist, it is a conspiracy of recovered memory therapists and so on.

forward me the factual evidence you would point out to RAW regarding ritual abuse.... and then compare it with other theories that you do not believe in that have the same level of evidence... I fail to see a Dogma here...

Where do all these people with multiple personalities come from?... are you kidding...? you have read his books and you are asking this question..???

have you read prometheus rising... ???? which could not be more detailed and descriptive in that very question..

A question. Do you believe in UFOs by any chance?... or ETEs coming to earth?... if so tell me why or why not.... and your reasons for believing or not believing in certain "evidence" that shows this...

IMO you are getting confused between dogma... and opinion.



Regarding the promotion of the Bavarian Illuminati as THE Illuminati, just read Cosmic Trigger for example. Or Illuminatus! Or the Historical Illuminatus Chronicles or whatever it's called. Imagine for a moment that RAW created a strawman in the minds of countless heads decades ago in the form of this definition of the Illuminati as being synonymous with the Bavarian Illuminati. Tear the strawman down with perfectly reasonable doubt and many of those people will hold onto the impression that the Illuminati is a thing of the past.

again this is opinion, not dogma.... you don't have to agree with everything he says... *scratching head*... you are expressing dogma by accusing his views of being such....

[thirdwave]

I disagree with him on many things though. He sometimes says that there cannot be one big conspiracy but several smaller ones. I don't think so. There may be small consopiracies, but it seems to me they're all linked systemically.

I have never taken this as him think that there is not a global conspiracy... but more the fact he does not think there is one big happy family fucking humanity...

more that there are agendas... but that to view it all as one gang is unrealistic... I agree in a way as is does explain how there are so many contradictions within "their" behaviour...

the fact that he exposes the dogmatic establishments that have abused humanity shows that he understands the desires of powerful people... I just dont think they are get on like a house n fire...

[supertzar]

forward me the factual evidence you would point out to RAW regarding ritual abuse.... and then compare it with other theories that you do not believe in that have the same level of evidence... I fail to see a Dogma here...

Where do all these people with multiple personalities come from?... are you kidding...? you have read his books and you are asking this question..???

have you read prometheus rising... ???? which could not be more detailed and descriptive in that very question..

A question. Do you believe in UFOs by any chance?... or ETEs coming to earth?... if so tell me why or why not.... and your reasons for believing or not believing in certain "evidence" that shows this...

IMO you are getting confused between dogma... and opinion.


again this is opinion, not dogma.... you don't have to agree with everything he says... *scratching head*... you are expressing dogma by accusing his views of being such....

I'd like to know how Prometheus Rising explains classic Multiple Personality Syndrome. I haven't read that one. You understand I am not talking about his "Multiple Model" approach to reality selection, correct? I am talking about people who are seriously dissociated from alters who may not know of the existence of other alters at all.

[thirdwave]

I'd like to know how Prometheus Rising explains classic Multiple Personality Syndrome. I haven't read that one. You understand I am not talking about his "Multiple Model" approach to reality selection, correct? I am talking about people who are seriously dissociated from alters who may not know of the existence of other alters at all.

the book is based on the human brain/mind.. and how it can be effected by abuse... mind control... alternative life styles... you name, it it goes deep into it... in fact I have never read a book that attempts to fo so deep into the human mind and how it can be used manipulated.. misused and mended...

also, just for the record, you don't only have multiple personalities because you have undergone abuse...

IMO you have either flicked through his works very quickly and with a very distant perspective or simply have not really grasped where the guy comes from...

to say he is dogmatic... when he was one of the leaders in the Chaos Magick movement, is quite ironic... I would say the only dogma he would have had was to not be dogmatic... this is enthusiased in all his works.. and none of his views where dogmatic, that was the whole point of "illuminatus" from the parts I have read of it..... and he has even admitted than anyone that would take his views as fact is foolish as they are all simply his own opinions.

[supertzar]

How do people get Multiple Personality disorder without abuse?

[thirdwave]

How do people get Multiple Personality disorder without abuse?

I don't know... but there are some who simply have them... I knew a guy with one and he was not abused... its just a condition...

not saying that abuse cant lead to it though...

i see we are now going off the point....

you could say any mental condition is created by abuse.... it does not mean one has undergone any particular precidure outside of our everyday lives to create it.

[supertzar]

It's not ironic. I understand his message and I have incorporated it more than you realize. I see his dogmatic opinions on ritual abuse and recognize them for what they are because I am open to that level of understanding. I'm not going to go out of my way to clarify your mistaken assumptions, thirdwave.

[thirdwave]

It's not ironic. I understand his message and I have incorporated it more than you realize. I see his dogmatic opinions on ritual abuse


you choose to call them dogmatic ,, simply because they are bnot your views... which is :).. dogmatic...
he simply had the view that he had not seen enough tangible evidence to be completely convinced... again this has nothing to do with dogma... stating that you have not seen enough evidence for something to take it as fact, is not dogmatic LOL



I'm not going to go out of my way to clarify your mistaken assumptions, thirdwave.
I did not ask you to :).

oh, and that's not a dogma ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma

[supertzar]

I don't know... but there are some who simply have them... I knew a guy with one and he was not abused... its just a condition...

not saying that abuse cant lead to it though...

i see we are not going off the point....

It's not just a condition. People don't just have systems of alters for no reason. Abuse does cause it. It's possible that it can be done with exotic technology. It's not just something that develops without something causing it, though.

The point? You are telling me about how Prometheus Rising has some kind of answer to how people get MPD. I am familiar enough with RAW's ideas that I doubt it.

[supertzar]

you choose to call them dogmatic ,, simply because they are bnot your views... which is :).. dogmatic...
he simply had the view that he had not seen enough tangible evidence to be completely convinced... again this has nothing to do with dogma... stating that you have not seen enough evidence for something to take it as fact, is not dogmatic LOL




I did not ask you to :).

oh, and that's not a dogma ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma


That's bullshit. You telling me why I think it is dogmatic and all the rest of what you are saying. You don't have enough information to say that. Your assumptions are way off and I would even say we probably won't have much meaningful conversation because I don't want to deal with them. Too much time and hassle for nothing.

[thirdwave]

It's not just a condition. People don't just have systems of alters for no reason. Abuse does cause it. It's possible that it can be done with exotic technology. It's not just something that develops without something causing it, though.

oh really?? lol

well thats kind of like saying that one needs to breath to live..

of course things have a cause and like I had said all problems my be caused by some kind of abuse... but it does not mean someone has undergone ritual abuse or severe mind control to develop such a disorder... thought im sure it can lead to it... also RAW had never denied people suffer mind control attacks and abuse through mind control methods used, which you seem to be implying....


The point? You are telling me about how Prometheus Rising has some kind of answer to how people get MPD. I am familiar enough with RAW's ideas that I doubt it.

there is no answer to how people get MPD really, like many other mental disorders..... so its a false question... there are many ideas to what can lead to it... and we all face mind control everyday on many levels..

you would tell people that MPD is caused by ritual abuse??.. if so you would simply be talking shit.,, and just telling people what you want them to believe..

the book I am referring to does go deeply into how mind control works.. and how the mind can be effected... and hence the reader can conclude how MPD could occur... hence it does not bullshit you, but simply teaches about the mind and how it can be effected... anything else would be ones opinion... and to state that opinion as fact can be seen as dogmatic :)


so lets get this straight... your main point was that he was not convinced that ritual abuse went on.... and you think he was being dogmatic because he overlooked how many people had MPD?

I pointed out how he has a hole book on how the mind can be abused... brainwashed and controlled...

and you start to nit pick at whether it claims to have the scientific explanation behind MPD??

*scratches head*

[thirdwave]

That's bullshit. You telling me why I think it is dogmatic and all the rest of what you are saying. You don't have enough information to say that. Your assumptions are way off and I would even say we probably won't have much meaningful conversation because I don't want to deal with them. Too much time and hassle for nothing.

I could not really give a toss what you think.. I was just curious why you where talking so much shit... and if it was that you generally did not get the guy or read his books or if you where just as bullshitter.. and I am still undecided.. probably a bit of both.

[supertzar]

I'm not going to go on with this. It would piss me off too much.

[thirdwave]

I'm not going to go on with this. It would piss me off too much.

just don't get to dogmatic about it :D

that would be my opinion

[noewhan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F3607SzCMY

Any corrections, please let me know.

==

The Tsog stalketh the lamb,
And the saints bow
And yay they worship it.

It stealeth property
It burtheth neighborhoods
It foully killeth all opposition

He thinketh only does its violence to black people
Or Hispanics
Or kooks with odd religions,
But it's hand is at your own throat even now!

Yogtsognathogit, what are you stupid or something?

Abdul Alhazred - 'The Tsogonomicon'. He wrote that over a 1000 years ago; a prophecy.

==

[karol2020]

Thought I would start one up on RAW.... as he is always worth checking out..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec7O_p64BPY&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkJvwX3A-c&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeo0lQ_uEE8&feature=related


the videos have been removed...:(

[thirdwave]

the videos have been removed...:(

odd, here

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8789989561433328024&ei=syhzSsfgD9ef-AaTmMXIAQ&q=Everything+Is+Under+Control&hl=en&client=firefox-a

[karol2020]

odd, here

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8789989561433328024&ei=syhzSsfgD9ef-AaTmMXIAQ&q=Everything+Is+Under+Control&hl=en&client=firefox-a

Thank you, I didnt know this man, who is/ was he? I searcherd a bit at google and found that he didnt really believe in his ideas, like the conspiracy theories, he called it a "maybe logic".

[thirdwave]

Thank you, I didnt know this man, who is/ was he? I searcherd a bit at google and found that he didnt really believe in his ideas, like the conspiracy theories, he called it a "maybe logic".

From what I have read of him.

He was open to many thieories out there, but also new that there was so much bullshit and getting to deeply involved in them just makes you more brainwashed than when you started...

So his view is very much from the view of "Chaos Magicians".. that "nothing is true, everything is permitted "

and to not get bogged down by it.

He kind of pointed that out for me... its our minds and own states which we have effect over, not the conspiracies... and its only the actions of people and the reactions of people that count at the end of the day... everything else is usually propaganda.

His works was mostly published by New Falcon Publications who published many people into the same kind of thing...

take note he was also alive and kicking further back.. pre 9/11 and so on.... so not quite as up to date as other peeps today...

[edelweiss pirate]

I read his Illuminatus trilogy.

As far as I can tell the whole thing was designed as a recruitment drive for the secret societies and secret services.

That's why there's shagging on nearly every page! Just like a James Bond movie: make the illuminati look appealing sexy and heroic. After all Hagbard Celine essentually IS the Illuminati and he has a cool submarine and lots of sexually promiscuous sexy subordinates.

What's more Wilson clearly knows what he's talking about. A total Insider. All the depictions of the psychological effect of the initiations are way too near the knuckle to be fictional.

His book 'Everything is under control' also debunks all of the conspiracy 'theories' that we take for granted.

Again Third Wave is on the wrong side of the fence.

Funny that!

The Illumnatus trilogy was written not to expose the Illuminati but to recruit for it.

Factor in that Robert Anton Wilson was editor of Playboy magazine and we have the portrait of a corrupter of the highest order.

[thirdwave]

I read his Illuminatus trilogy.

As far as I can tell the whole thing was designed as a recruitment drive for the secret societies and secret services.

That's why there's shagging on nearly every page! Just like a James Bond movie: make the illuminati look appealing sexy and heroic. After all Hagbard Celine essentually IS the Illuminati and he has a cool submarine and lots of sexually promiscuous sexy subordinates.

What's more Wilson clearly knows what he's talking about. A total Insider. All the depictions of the psychological effect of the initiations are way too near the knuckle to be fictional.

His book 'Everything is under control' also debunks all of the conspiracy 'theories' that we take for granted.

Again Third Wave is on the wrong side of the fence.

Funny that!

The Illumnatus trilogy was written not to expose the Illuminati but to recruit for it.

Factor in that Robert Anton Wilson was editor of Playboy magazine and we have the portrait of a corrupter of the highest order.

As usual EP is sticking to the facts lol...

How evil of him to put sex in his books! :eek: , we all know sex is evil and an illuminati creation! :rolleyes:

I guess because he tempts you to contemplate other realities he is to much for you.

I had a friend who did not have much luck with the ladies.. was a bit nervous with them and was not blessed with looks.... I used to have chats with him at times about why he does not just go get a girl... so on...

In the end I highly recommended him RAWs book Prometheus rising.. after having a really good chat with him about stuff...

He dropped me home and I get him the book and gave it to him... the next time I heard about him, His bro was at the pub and I asked him where he was and if he was coming down.. his Bro said, I don't know he has been shagging this bird he met like crazy and im lucky if I see him for five mins...

Made me chuckle.

When I saw him I asked him if he read the book he said yeah and he really liked it... I could tell he did not want to admit he got the girl because the book shook his perspective... but we both new. :)

RAW was cool, shame he is not around still.

[edelweiss pirate]

As usual EP is sticking to the facts lol...

How evil of him to put sex in his books! :eek: , we all know sex is evil and an illuminati creation! :rolleyes:

I guess because he tempts you to contemplate other realities he is to much for you.

I had a friend who did not have much luck with the ladies.. was a bit nervous with them and was not blessed with looks.... I used to have chats with him at times about why he does not just go get a girl... so on...

In the end I highly recommended him RAWs book Prometheus rising.. after having a really good chat with him about stuff...

He dropped me home and I get him the book and gave it to him... the next time I heard about him, His bro was at the pub and I asked him where he was and if he was coming down.. his Bro said, I don't know he has been shagging this bird he met like crazy and im lucky if I see him for five mins...

Made me chuckle.

When I saw him I asked him if he read the book he said yeah and he really liked it... I could tell he did not want to admit he got the girl because the book shook his perspective... but we both new. :)

RAW was cool, shame he is not around still.

What was that 'story' supposed to mean?

There's weird...then there's you Wave... You take the biscuit mate.

Whenever you come up with one of your 'funny stories' Wave I always feel like I need to take a cleansing shower afterwards.

[thirdwave]

What was that 'story' supposed to mean?

There's weird...then there's you Wave... You take the biscuit mate.

Whenever you come up with one of your 'funny stories' Wave I always feel like I need to take a cleansing shower afterwards.


I think you take those showers more for the reason that when ever we have these encounters here, I normally end up giving you a good shafting :)

Simply for the reason I am usually right and you are usually babbling on about a load or trollop :cool:

Maybe you have still not recovered from your Freemason programming, thus don't understand my little story...

I will admit that RAW's books are for the more broad minded folk :)

[supertzar]

Thirdwave, how could you understand RAW's work? You don't even understand the difference between an opinion and a wish. Can't you accept my objection to RAW saying things like "ritual abuse does not exist outside the Catholic Church?" Why not?

[edelweiss pirate]

I think you take those showers more for the reason that when ever we have these encounters here, I normally end up giving you a good shafting :)

Simply for the reason I am usually right and you are usually babbling on about a load or trollop :cool:

Maybe you have still not recovered from your Freemason programming, thus don't understand my little story...

I will admit that RAW's books are for the more broad minded folk :)

Wow! So on the one hand you say I have freemason programming and on the other you say you don't believe me and my stories.

Surely one or the other mate, they can't both be true can they?



Keep it Weird Wave, you're always good for a larf!

As for your sexual fantasies. I've nothing against gays but keep it to yourself. K? It's just not my cup of tea.

[thirdwave]

Thirdwave, how could you understand RAW's work? You don't even understand the difference between an opinion and a wish.


Opinion = Someone's outlook and perspective on a subject based on there own insight.

Wish = Someone's desired out come or conclusion, or Event.

:)

Can't you accept my objection to RAW saying things like "ritual abuse does not exist outside the Catholic Church?" Why not?

Cant you except his opinion?... why are you "objecting" to his opinion

does he have to be evil for potentially getting something wrong?

lol

[supertzar]

just don't get to dogmatic about it :D

that would be my opinion:rolleyes:

I do not accept his opinion as good and I object to his support for people like the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. Did I call him evil? No. I am saying his opinion has been destructive to the correct understanding of ritual abuse and with his knowledge I doubt very much that it is a sincere mistake.

[thirdwave]

Wow! So on the one hand you say I have freemason programming and on the other you say you don't believe me and my stories.

Surely one or the other mate, they can't both be true can they?



Oh dear...

It was sarcasm, get with it old chap!... you know as much about high degree Freemasons as my dog does about maths... and your bullshitting can be spotted a mile away...

dude you went to a ritual thought it was boring and stopped going (that's if you went at all) .. and then you cooked up some bullshit in the hope people will take your bullshit more seriously... come on lets be honest!.


Keep it Weird Wave, you're always good for a larf!

Ok what ever that means lol


As for your sexual fantasies. I've nothing against gays but keep it to yourself. K? It's just not my cup of tea.

LOL!. I was not aware I gave you the honour of knowing my sexual fantasies... You have been dreaming of me I think lol

eewwww, let that one slip mate... try not to say whats on your mind to much lol

and go have your self another shower...

[thirdwave]

:rolleyes:

I do not accept his opinion as good and I object to his support for people like the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. Did I call him evil? No. I am saying his opinion has been destructive to the correct understanding of ritual abuse and with his knowledge I doubt very much that it is a sincere mistake.

He has brought many people into the movement and is appreciated by many, what ever issues you have with him are your own... take what info you like and leave the rest, no one has the right to silence another after simply expressing them sevles... unless they of course ar trying to silence another's, of which it is then morally right.

Maybe you were not saying he was evil but the other numb scull was implying it.

[supertzar]

He has brought many people into the movement and is appreciated by many, what ever issues you have with him are your own... take what info you like and leave the rest, no one has the right to silence another after simply expressing them sevles... unless they of course ar trying to silence another's, of which it is then morally right.

Maybe you were not saying he was evil but the other numb scull was implying it.

My opinion is he is probably a gatekeeper and an early interceptor of intelligent counterculture people who had the potential to figure out a lot of things. What he said in many ways over the years about ritual abuse are not "my issues" they are his issues and I am pointing those issues out because not too many other people do that. It's just "Ohhh, he was so great!" all the time. Well, he wasn't that great in my opinion and the main reason is his campaign against the understanding of ritual abuse. I'm sure not trying to silence anyone. I don't know why you imply that I am.

[thirdwave]

My opinion is he is probably a gatekeeper and an early interceptor of intelligent counterculture people who had the potential to figure out a lot of things.

and this is not calling him evil?


What he said in many ways over the years about ritual abuse are not "my issues" they are his issues and I am pointing those issues out because not too many other people do that. It's just "Ohhh, he was so great!" all the time.

high light these paragraphs you talking about... you seem to have a very personalised take on what he says from what I can gather..

Bollocks, he very much promotes other peoples works who do expose ritual...

you jsut dont get where he is coming from.. and we do not have factual evidence there are these ritauls going on... that is the bottom line..

I think they do, but we have no evidence.

Well, he wasn't that great in my opinion and the main reason is his campaign against the understanding of ritual abuse. and why do you think people who do think he was great care?

he makes sense, you dont.

[supertzar]

and why do you think people who do think he was great care?

he makes sense, you dont.

Very mature, thirdwave. :rolleyes:

[thirdwave]

http://revver.com/video/87414/robert-anton-wilson-bush-illuminati/

[edelweiss pirate]

he makes sense, you dont.



Classic kettle caling the pot black!

The sheer balls of YOU to say THAT!

[thirdwave]

Classic kettle caling the pot black!

The sheer balls of YOU to say THAT!

there is a difference between not making sense to someone, and being judged by a person who has an and encased mind..

For you, its as simple as .. Freemasons on this team and are the bad guys... ..And EP type people this side and are the good guys.

Just because others find that over simplistic and tedious. it does not mean they don't make sense :)