Can We Do This?

[awakensong]

Just wondering if we might start a thread to be responded to only by those in agreement with David Icke, or at least sincerely seeking his theories with respectfulness. I don't begrudge the others their right to be on this board, but as soon as I begin having an enjoyable, intelligent discussion with someone as to David's theories, another person comes along to begin a religious debate, thereby sidetracking the focus of the original conversation. Please, to all religious thinkers and believers, start your own thread to debunk these subjects.

I'd like to get the perspective of other "Icke-like" thinkers on his view of "logging off" the Reptilian Matrix and "logging on" to True Reality. That is in his book "Infinite Love is the Only Truth". Has anyone been able to apply this in their own life?

[the om]

i think we already have done it, we just have to realize it. if you can accept that time is nothing but an illusion, then nothing is linear, but everything is instantaneous. like i said, i think we are already there. the reason we still appear to be here is because of our deep-seated belief in linear 'time'.

just my 2 cents

[awakensong]

i think we already have done it, we just have to realize it. if you can accept that time is nothing but an illusion, then nothing is linear, but everything is instantaneous. like i said, i think we are already there. the reason we still appear to be here is because of our deep-seated belief in linear 'time'.

just my 2 cents
Isn't time an illusion only when we get beyond the 3rd dimension? Up until then, isn't it cyclical? Or are you saying you think the whole thing is a halogram? I suppose there can be many differing views on this.

[the om]

Isn't time an illusion only when we get beyond the 3rd dimension? Up until then, isn't it cyclical? Or are you saying you think the whole thing is a halogram? I suppose there can be many differing views on this.

i'm saying i think the whole thing is an illusion. that is just what makes the most sense for me, since i have lived nearly my entire life feeling like it was nothing but a dream.

besides, if time were steady in 3D, it wouldn't make much sense that it is speeding up. (if you choose to believe that)

ah, hell. i guess it really all depends on what you believe in. "it is your mind that creates the world"

[jayelowell]

time is moving real fast a this moment in 3D

[dedicate]

Smoke lots of Opium and have a good day.:confused:

[truthseeker1980]

i'm saying i think the whole thing is an illusion. that is just what makes the most sense for me, since i have lived nearly my entire life feeling like it was nothing but a dream.

besides, if time were steady in 3D, it wouldn't make much sense that it is speeding up. (if you choose to believe that)

ah, hell. i guess it really all depends on what you believe in. "it is your mind that creates the world"

Time isn't steady in 3D, didn't Einstein or someone prove this? I saw an educational programme about Quantum Mechanical Physics a few years ago and they did an experiement with two atomic clocks, as those are the most accurate & least likely to lose time.

Time moves slower the faster you are travelling, they proved it by setting the clocks to the exact same time and having one clock on the ground and one in a jet which flew around the world and landed back next to the other clock. The one which had been travelling fast on the plane was a few nanoseconds slower than the one which had remained still.

Which to me proves that it all must be an illusion if that can happen. There was another programme on BBC4 called ATOM which basically goes into detail about the fact everything is an illusion, so science supports Ickes theory anyway.

[red_ram]

Isn't time an illusion only when we get beyond the 3rd dimension? Up until then, isn't it cyclical? Or are you saying you think the whole thing is a halogram? I suppose there can be many differing views on this.

imo:

Time is only an illusion because our bodies lack, at this stage of the game, the ability to process the fourth dimension, which is time, and if we were able to do so our lifetime here would appear as one long stream with no sequential time as such.

As for being cyclical, well, David says that the Matrix is a whirlpool in infinity, and in that case it might well be.

[lozz]

Time is down to the perception and perspective of the individual. Even with in the matrix as we know it time differs as you travel abroad and goes at different speeds for different species so its not even constant.

[hepcatdsm]

...

I'd like to get the perspective of other "Icke-like" thinkers on his view of "logging off" the Reptilian Matrix and "logging on" to True Reality. That is in his book "Infinite Love is the Only Truth". Has anyone been able to apply this in their own life?

I will give you my points of view:

1- nothing exists (in our common and current understanding of something that exists)

2- WE: all consciousness (humans, animals, everything that can CHOOSE to go left of right) are the same "thing/consciousness that doesn't exist"

3- There is no physical place that exists and distances does not exists

4- What we consider as reality is kind of a computer game where worlds, rules and actions exists...but only in this computer(and even inside the computer, it is just electric connections interpreted by logic gates). Ex; take a newborn, plug him inside a virtual reality machine ALL his life, how will he be able to know that there is something else than what he is being fed with(sounds, images, etc) and what is actually around him "physically".

4.1- This "computer game" is played by all of us(remember I said we were all the same "person").
4.2- WE PLAY EACH INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERS AT THE SAME TIME and assign to each character a different 'style' (I don't like using the word 'time' in this sentence)
4.3- Like in a computer game, there is an environment, there are rules, etc (You have all seen Matrix I wish)
4.4- Admitting 1 possibility of a game is admitting that there can be an infinite amount of versions (or realities)

5- Like in a multiplayer game, different users can join forces together to accomplish a certain goal or just be together. They form little 'gangs' inside The Game.

6- Like in all games, if you choose to be one type of character, you wont be able to have the abilities of other types of characters...THAT IS THE GAME***
***Oh! maybe, like in all multiplayer games, some USERS found ways to 'hack' their CHARACTER, to add some type of skill to them, etc

Why I stated those points?

You said: "logging off" the Reptilian Matrix and "logging on" to True Reality.

For my part, I would read: Stop being the character inside the computer game and re-become the user that is playing it...But if that is the case, we are back to being NOTHING in NOWHERE while in the game, we are something in someplace but we are not perfect'...
Remember that old saying: 'To be or not to be' by W. Shakespeare? This was, I think, it's way of asking: Is that ONE version of the game we are in right now is worth continuing playing?

A German philosopher interprets its work with this:

'The essential purport of the world-famous monologue in Hamlet is, in condensed form, that our state is so wretched that complete non-existence would be decidedly preferable to it. Now if suicide actually offered us this, so that the alternative "TO BE OR NOT TO BE" lay before us in the full sense of the words, it could be chosen unconditionally as a highly desirable termination. There is something in us, however, which tells us that this is not so, that this is not the end of things, that death is not an absolute annihilation. (from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_be_or_not_to_be)

:cool:

[awakensong]

Thank you for your well-worded thoughts on this, hepcatdsm. I haven't made a complete decision yet about it all, but I think saying "nothing exists" is a contradiction in terms, and they cancel each other out. I do think something exists, and maybe people who say truth cannot be known are right. We just don't have all the answers in this dimension.

[daveybpl]

Nothing is certain but uncertainy;)

[hepcatdsm]

I agree that 'saying "nothing exists" is a contradiction in terms, and they cancel each other out'. This is why I specified "nothing exists (in our common and current understanding of something that exists)".

What I mean by this sentence is:

1.1- for something to exist it needs to be able to come to past or to continue forever or be witnessed

1.2- for something to be able to come to past, to continue forever or to be witnessed it requires something/someone/... to be aware of time

1.3- to be aware of time you need consciousness

1.4- at the end, you only need consciousness to make something 'exist'

1.5- "in our common and current understanding of something that exists", consciousness cannot be placed in that category because of its timeless evolution, because of its immaterial side, because of its illogical side and mostly because of all the endless possibilities of "style" a consciousness can have

To get back to your sentence: ' "nothing exists" is a contradiction in terms, and they cancel each other out' ' :
When I say 'nothing exists', I mean EVERYTHING you can think of(except consciousness) cannot really exist in our current logic of something that do exist because it is created by something that does not exist! It is like you said: they cancel each other out...(and I would add)...when you put them together.

So, for something else to exist you cannot be a consciousness and everything consciousness can think of. It leaves room for what? The possibility that nothing exist?!?

[awakensong]

I think I get what you're saying, but I also think perhaps we've begun to misread each other. You say now "something 'else' cannot exist" where I first understood you to say "nothing exists".

Do we agree that Consciousness exists, and that nothing besides this can exist?

[hepcatdsm]

Lol
I am sorry, I try to write the best I can to express my point of view. Words can explain a lot of things, but not everything can be explain with words.

What I am trying to say is that THE consciousness allows/make-possible "things" to exist and not the other way arround. The other way arround is when counsciousness exists. I think that "existence" is not a word that could describe/be-used-with/be-associated-with THE consciousness. IT is not somewhere, IT is not elvoling in some kind of time and IT certainly can't say that IT exists because IT has no concept of existence.

awakensong: ..."Do we agree that Consciousness exists, and that nothing besides this can exist?"

I agree that Consciousness "exists"(this is the best word to describe what we mean) but I think the "nothing besides this" is the only "group of things" that can experiment/witness/be-aware of any existence.

So, after that, this is the crazy part that I think we consciously will never be able to answer...How could you imagine "nothing in no time and space" while experimenting consciousness?

[klin]

Lol
I am sorry, I try to write the best I can to express my point of view. Words can explain a lot of things, but not everything can be explain with words.

What I am trying to say is that THE consciousness allows/make-possible "things" to exist and not the other way arround. The other way arround is when counsciousness exists. I think that "existence" is not a word that could describe/be-used-with/be-associated-with THE consciousness. IT is not somewhere, IT is not elvoling in some kind of time and IT certainly can't say that IT exists because IT has no concept of existence.

awakensong: ..."Do we agree that Consciousness exists, and that nothing besides this can exist?"

I agree that Consciousness "exists"(this is the best word to describe what we mean) but I think the "nothing besides this" is the only "group of things" that can experiment/witness/be-aware of any existence.

So, after that, this is the crazy part that I think we consciously will never be able to answer...How could you imagine "nothing in no time and space" while experimenting consciousness?

Imagine for a moment that all living beings on earth are eyeless...
Light will not cease to exist even if all living beings cannot see it.

So there is something there, greater than you, and if it chooses for you to not see it, you will not see... BUT you will be able to speculate on it!

That's your mind connected to the greater mind, and it's allowing you the opportunity to imagine anything that you want. Space in any dimension is sort of a repeat of atoms, molecules, cells, etc...

When a lightning bolt hits the ground, take that fraction of a second and stretch it out over 5 billion years. A lot can happen on all dimensions, and imagine that for a fraction of a fraction of a second, or 10 million years, there's a little bit of "matter" that hosts life, called Earth by it's habitants...

The Universe doesn't 'need' YOU specifically, but it sure is a hell of a lot better when YOU are part of it. The Universe is thinking itself in the form of WAVES of all kinds (x rays, uv, infrared, radio, etc) and all living beings in the Universe is a fraction of a second allowed to develop it's part of the plot/story/universal thought/Great Spirit/God...
We are arrays, basically.

[hepcatdsm]

Imagine for a moment that all living beings on earth are eyeless...
Light will not cease to exist even if all living beings cannot see it.
Why not? Light(visible light) is a small part of the light spectrum. Like you said, the light spectrum contains x-rays, uv, etc:
The Universe is thinking itself in the form of WAVES of all kinds (x rays, uv, infrared, radio, etc)
Can you imagine seeing pure energy? I guess not. Can you imagine seeing a part of the influence of that pure energy? I guess so. By saying that we see light we mean that we detect certain vibrational modes of the Big WAVE or certain interaction of those modes on our environment and our brain interprets it as light. So, if light is a small part of that big vibrational energy interpreted by our brain it can only exist when seen by sensors that converts vibrations into electric signals this means that when nothing can see light, it is just the pure vibration of the Universe thinking itself. It is call light, when consciousness can be aware of this special kind of that special kind of vibration.

So there is something there, greater than you, and if it chooses for you to not see it, you will not see... BUT you will be able to speculate on it!)
How can something "greater" than consciousness be? Ultra-consciousness?

When a lightning bolt hits the ground, take that fraction of a second and stretch it out over 5 billion years. A lot can happen on all dimensions, and imagine that for a fraction of a fraction of a second, or 10 million years, there's a little bit of "matter" that hosts life, called Earth by it's habitants...
THAT IS MY POINT: Time can only exist through consciousness. If nobody is conscious of time passing by, why would it have to pass by?

[klin]

Why not? Light(visible light) is a small part of the light spectrum. Like you said, the light spectrum contains x-rays, uv, etc:

Can you imagine seeing pure energy? I guess not. Can you imagine seeing a part of the influence of that pure energy? I guess so. By saying that we see light we mean that we detect certain vibrational modes of the Big WAVE or certain interaction of those modes on our environment and our brain interprets it as light. So, if light is a small part of that big vibrational energy interpreted by our brain it can only exist when seen by sensors that converts vibrations into electric signals this means that when nothing can see light, it is just the pure vibration of the Universe thinking itself. It is call light, when consciousness can be aware of this special kind of that special kind of vibration.


How can something "greater" than consciousness be? Ultra-consciousness?


THAT IS MY POINT: Time can only exist through consciousness. If nobody is conscious of time passing by, why would it have to pass by?

I would to quote yourself, Hepcat ;)

Who are we?

I like the way you say: "mad scientistS" but I think it is more a singular gender "person" that is experimenting for himself (if he/it has a self so he can experience things)
..........................
What are we here for?

Do we really have to be here for something, or couldn't we just BE here!?

We are not the center of the universe by being conscious. But you are the center of YOUR own universe, the center point of yourself is YOU and everything around you can be calculated from your own middle point (imaginary x,y,z), as for anyone else, everyone is the center of it's own universe...

Are we seriously going to limit ourselves to finding a ONE in a universe where everything comes in pair? There's a True and False to everything, can we seriously forget about that for your example?

One is impossible without nothing and nothing is possible without one.

If everything is a thought and nothing physical really exists, then surely the universe was not 'thought' of just for the sake of you and I or any human beings. I mean, the universe does not depend upon us humans in order to survive.

If there's a summer blockbuster that you decide to skip seeing, it will still be running for others, regardless if you went or not at the theaters. This proves that stuff can be without you knowing...

Now, if YOU personally are unaware of something's 'existence' then it DOES NOT EXIST FOR YOU, and your perception will play tricks upon you which could lead to speculate or misinterpret whatever that thing is.

If you can see 24 frames a second, then surely if something is visible at 150 frames a second, we are missing quite a bit of it. And it doesn't mean that it's not there for us humans...

And sorry for my opinion here, but speculate all you want, but you are stuck with your 5 senses, and your view of what's not there could be biased due to your many years of interacting with the physical world that we are part of.

As for time, yes it is a matter of perception and speed, and we can feel time going slower and faster, depending on how bored we are. Bored: the mind goes slowly and so does time... Not Bored: time flies and so does the mind.

Time is there regardless of you and I, the past is gone and you can never be part of what you were not part of. If the human races wipes itself dead, time will still be, regardless of you and I.

[klin]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33491
"Senses are the physiological methods of perception."

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense

There, all in one sentence.

You can't try to interpret it otherwise.

My work is done, I am totally 110% awaken now from the illusions of reality.

I'll delete my account after the creating of this thread, due to activity on too many forums (:rolleyes:).


Definition of sense

There is no firm agreement among neurologists as to the number of senses because of differing definitions of what constitutes a sense. One definition states that an exteroceptive sense is a faculty by which outside stimuli are perceived.[1] The traditional five senses are sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste: a classification attributed to Aristotle.[2] Humans also have at least six additional senses (a total of eleven including interoceptive senses) that include: nociception (pain), equilibrioception (balance), proprioception & kinesthesia (joint motion and acceleration), sense of time, thermoception (temperature differences), and in some a weak magnetoception (direction)[3]

[awakensong]

As I've said on other threads, I'm on this board to explore and discuss the Icke theories. I agree with him on some things, and disagree on others, and am undecided about certain things.

One thing in particular I would like to take issue with is the idea that nothing exists unless we are observing it. If that was true, then I wouldn't have bumped my head the other night on something I wasn't observing to exist. LOL

It would also mean we should be able to walk through walls as long as our eyes are closed, and no one should trip over something they didn't see, etc., etc.

Any comments or explanations?

[the om]

As I've said on other threads, I'm on this board to explore and discuss the Icke theories. I agree with him on some things, and disagree on others, and am undecided about certain things.

One thing in particular I would like to take issue with is the idea that nothing exists unless we are observing it. If that was true, then I wouldn't have bumped my head the other night on something I wasn't observing to exist. LOL

It would also mean we should be able to walk through walls as long as our eyes are closed, and no one should trip over something they didn't see, etc., etc.

Any comments or explanations?

i think that observation in this sense means more than seeing it with your eyes. it seems that it extends out to a conformation in the mind. if you were to know that the wall does not exist, then yeah, i'm sure you could move through it. we have all heard the theories that all matter is really around 95% empty space, and many of us may have accepted them. we believe in them. but we don't yet know them. until we do, i guess we'll just have to keep building doors... :D

[hepcatdsm]

... i guess we'll just have to keep building doors... :D
HAHA, good one

It is like you said, as long as a consciousness will make the difference between that "empty space" and that "other thing that is not empty space" we will keep needing doors.

If you manage to understand both and discover that they are made of the "same ""thing"" ", than you should have better ease to do what ever you want to do with it.

Going back with my computer analogy: A bit can be expressed with electrical signals(+5 and -5 volts) AND it can be expressed with code (1 and 0). The computer can understand both and manipulate both. But it doesn't feel/know the difference between software and hardware, they are the same for it but they need to be used differently. Also, with this duality you could pretend that one of the two does not exist like those 1 and 0 that are only there when voltage is applied allowing for a virtual reality to be created.

[the om]

Going back with my computer analogy: A bit can be expressed with electrical signals(+5 and -5 volts) AND it can be expressed with code (1 and 0). The computer can understand both and manipulate both. But it doesn't feel/know the difference between software and hardware, they are the same for it but they need to be used differently. Also, with this duality you could pretend that one of the two does not exist like those 1 and 0 that are only there when voltage is applied allowing for a virtual reality to be created.



thats actually a really good way of putting it!

[danster82]

its a bit of catch 22 because your asking people to debate only if they are within the belief or frame of mind of that of david icke when part of david ickes teachings are to not to box yourself in with belief structures.. because if there is truth in religions then it cannot be ignored because its the truth...

[demise_of_time]

HAHA, good one

It is like you said, as long as a consciousness will make the difference between that "empty space" and that "other thing that is not empty space" we will keep needing doors.

If you manage to understand both and discover that they are made of the "same ""thing"" ", than you should have better ease to do what ever you want to do with it.

Going back with my computer analogy: A bit can be expressed with electrical signals(+5 and -5 volts) AND it can be expressed with code (1 and 0). The computer can understand both and manipulate both. But it doesn't feel/know the difference between software and hardware, they are the same for it but they need to be used differently. Also, with this duality you could pretend that one of the two does not exist like those 1 and 0 that are only there when voltage is applied allowing for a virtual reality to be created.

The relationship to "empty space" and "not empty space" is the perfect analogy to binary code; I can't believe I never thought of it that way.

[tracker]

this is just typical of what awakensong made a thread about , see what awaken song says
and then see just how quick the issue was changed exactly what awakensong was saying that is what always happens .




awakensong
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: U$
Posts: 568 Can We Do This?

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Just wondering if we might start a thread to be responded to only by those in agreement with David Icke, or at least sincerely seeking his theories with respectfulness. I don't begrudge the others their right to be on this board, but as soon as I begin having an enjoyable, intelligent discussion with someone as to David's theories, another person comes along to begin a religious debate, thereby sidetracking the focus of the original conversation. Please, to all religious thinkers and believers, start your own thread to debunk these subjects.

I'd like to get the perspective of other "Icke-like" thinkers on his view of "logging off" the Reptilian Matrix and "logging on" to True Reality. That is in his book "Infinite Love is the Only Truth". Has anyone been able to apply this in their own life?
__________________
Show me not a god who preaches but does not practice; rather show me a man who practices but does not preach. ~Celestia D'Rosemont





THIS IS THE END OF THE QUESTION AND ISSUE !
SO IF I GET MY SELF CORRECT HERE , AWAKENSONG ASKED IF ANY ONE US ARE GENUINE , AND HAVE INTERGRAED INTO OUR LIVES ?
AWAKENSON THEN ASKS IF ANY ONE HAS INTERGRATED THE CONCEPT OF
"INFINATE LOVE IS THE ONLY TRUTH" INTO THEIR LIVES ?

WATCH WHAT HAPPENS , AND SINCE THE NEXT POST , NO ONE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION EVEN UNTIL JUST ABOVE MY POST !





the om
Member




Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 39

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i think we already have done it, we just have to realize it. if you can accept that time is nothing but an illusion, then nothing is linear, but everything is instantaneous. like i said, i think we are already there. the reason we still appear to be here is because of our deep-seated belief in linear 'time'.

just my 2 cents
__________________
God is.



A SLIGHT ANSWER THERE , BUT ABOUT 13 WORDS ON IT .
NO ANSWER TO THE OTHER QUESTION THOUGH . WHAT ABOUT INFINATE LOVE ?


SORRY AWAKENSONG , IM NOT TRYING TO TROLL PEOPLE FOR COMING ON THIS THREAD , BUT IT IST JUST THE RELIGOUSE YOU HAVE TO WATCH .
I MADE A POST ON A SURVIVAL THREAD BECAUSE SOME ONE WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE A NUKE DETONATION .

AS SOON AS I DID THAT ( PUT GOOD INFO DOWN ) SODDING HUNDREDS OF
" ITS ALL AND ILLUSION" FREEKS TRASHED THE THREAD AND DIDNT EVEN CARE WHAT THE THREAD WAS ABOUT , THEY HAD NO RESPECT , NO INFO TO GIVE , ONLY THEIR "ITS ALL AN ILLUSIONAL CONCEPT" COMPLEXES !
IT WAS HIGHLY ENOYING .

LIKE YOU I LIKE A GOOD DEBATE AND AN INTERLECTUAL CHAT , BUT THESE GRASS SMOKING , "MEDITATE YOUR SELF INTO OBLIVION" NO BRAINERS ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR RELIGOUSE COUNTER PARTS AT MANY TIMES.


SO ?
TO KEEP TO THIS THREAD ISSUE !
1STLY .
YES I AM GENUINE ABOUT DAVID ICKE AND HIS WORK DESPITE THE FACT I CAN ONLY ACCEPT ABOUT 80%.
YES I HAVE INTEGRATED IT INTO MY LIFE .
AND I HAVE ALSO INTRODUCED ABOUT HALF OF THE CONCEPT THAT LOVE IS EVERYTHING , ASWELL .

SORRY FOR BEING TOO BLUNT ON THIS ISSUE .
HOPE I HAVENT SEEMED AS THOUGH I WAS TRYING TO SPEEK FOR YOU , AS THIS WAS NOT MY INTENTION .
I JUST NOTICE THIS TYPE OF THREAD TRASHING ALOT .

[hepcatdsm]

You should read the all thread before getting too excited like you did...SUPER SAVIOR OF THREADS!!!

And also...really...really be sure that you get the first question correctly:
Awakensong: I'd like to get the perspective of other "Icke-like" thinkers on his view of "logging off" the Reptilian Matrix and "logging on" to True Reality.

This concept of dual 'realities' was explain ' in his book "Infinite Love is the Only Truth"...It was not about Infinite Love! but it concern the illusion world we live in each day, how we can detach from it, how we can be aware of it, how we can conclude of it's existence.

Your no better then the ones you speak of:
LIKE YOU I LIKE A GOOD DEBATE AND AN INTERLECTUAL CHAT , BUT THESE GRASS SMOKING , "MEDITATE YOUR SELF INTO OBLIVION" NO BRAINERS ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR RELIGOUSE COUNTER PARTS AT MANY TIMES.

If you noticed, you are the only one 'trashing' this thread. Even it's original poster (awakensong) continued replying even after some 'GRASS SMOKING , "MEDITATE YOUR SELF INTO OBLIVION" NO BRAINERS ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR RELIGOUSE COUNTER PARTS' posted their Non-sense-to-Tracker/Not-appropriate-for-Tracker/Not-good-enough-for-tracker...

And REALLY REALLY let go of the CAPS