Jesus: Fiction or Real Person??

[archangel]

I have found a huge amount of evidence that indicates that the Jesus Story is a symbolic story of astronomy/Astrology. The Jesus story is very similar to all other ancient Sun Gods, Horus, Chrisha, Mythris, and many others. It is just a fancy version of Paganism.

very basic but informative video example:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2333851729824000613&q=sun+of+god&hl=en

My question I pose it you is this, Was there really a man named Jesus? There seems to be historical record of him but it is my impression that his real story is not told. Who was he and what was his real story?

[bigus_dickus]

My question I pose it you is this, Was there really a man named Jesus? There seems to be historical record of him but it is my impression that his real story is not told. Who was he and what was his real story?

if you knew the answer and you were 100% sure, what difference would it make either way?

[archangel]

if you knew the answer and you were 100% sure, what difference would it make either way?

what difference would it make?

Being that he is the most famous relgious Icon in the history of the world and being that I am a spiritual and curious person, I would like to know the true story.

You being on this board is going to make what difference?

Everything we learn on here is for personal enlightenment
The question you asked was a very silly one.

[lumukanda]

personally i don't think he existed, i think he's one of those products of the half acceptance by force by a people who had a religion and had another one imposed on them, leading to a conglomeration of various stories and avatars being represented by the latest 'trendy' one.
it is interesting to note that these always follow the same pattern, some elements, almost like there's some kind of power involved.
i'm just not convinced by the historical accounts, add to that that there were more than one messiah's floating around at the time, i'm just not convinced, and the bible is not a trustworthy historical account of just about anything really, i must admit though, way back when i started out on this journey, i knew there was a conspiracy of evil (illuminati, lucifer) and i reasoned that there had to be a conspiracy of good too, and i thought jesus was one of those, but the evidence against jesus having existed is just too much in my opinion.

[bigus_dickus]

what difference would it make?

Being that he is the most famous relgious Icon in the history of the world and being that I am a spiritual and curious person, I would like to know the true story.

You being on this board is going to make what difference?

Everything we learn on here is for personal enlightenment
The question you asked was a very silly one.

is that so...

then, yes, he really existed. this is your answer.

[archangel]

Yes that is so.

I originally posted that he probably existed but asked what his real story was which you did not address.

Unless you have something productive to post or wish to state your opinion pertaining to the issues, Its probably best that you just not post to waist people's time or piss people off.

[auron]

I actually went through a phase a few years ago where i thought i was Jesus!

[i am all i am]

I have found a huge amount of evidence that indicates that the Jesus Story is a symbolic story of astronomy/Astrology. The Jesus story is very similar to all other ancient Sun Gods, Horus, Chrisha, Mythris, and many others. It is just a fancy version of Paganism.

very basic but informative video example:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2333851729824000613&q=sun+of+god&hl=en

My question I pose it you is this, Was there really a man named Jesus? There seems to be historical record of him but it is my impression that his real story is not told. Who was he and what was his real story?

G'day Archangel.

These are books by Tony Bushby that may be of help ....

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/picbible_01.gif
The Bible Fraud is Tony's first book where he tells the untold story of Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Khrestus.
http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/sample.htm - this is a link to the first chapter.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/bksecret_01.gif
In Tony's second bookThe Secret in the Bible, Tony describes the lost history of the Giza Plateau and tells how Temple priests of the Great Pyramid preserved the evidence of life beyond death.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/images/book_left_cruc.gif
In the third book in his series The Crucifixion of Truth, Tony takes his readers into the world of ecclesiastical dishonesty and reveals startling new evidence of forgery and fiction in the New Testament.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/books_twin_01.jpg
Deception unlocks the concealed evidence of Jesus’ twin brother and reveals how the church contrived for centuries to hide the information from the public.

The Bible Fraud will reveal to you:

The origin of the first Gospel
The staged crucifixion in Rome
The initiation of Jesus in Egypt
The concealed place of Jesus’ death
The nature of the early church fathers
The names of Jesus’ three Royal wives
What the ancient Mystery Schools knew
Why the church burnt 12,000 Jewish books
The "fools and madmen" at the church councils
The need for the church to forge historic records
Secret ciphers and forgery in the New Testament
The real lives of Jesus, his twin brother and their families
Why Emperor Constantine called the first Christian Council

Mystery and intrigue surround the church web of deceit, corruption, murder and debauchery.
In The Bible Fraud, you will find the truth about Rabbi Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Khrestus,
their birth, marriages and deaths as well as the bloodlines that have resulted from events of that time.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/untoldstory.htm

With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[bigus_dickus]

I actually went through a phase a few years ago where i thought i was Jesus!

maybe you were... jesus means "healer" in greek. anyone can be trained to be that, especially when anointed. it works by people's belief.

[archangel]

I am all I am

Thanks for all the book listings bro. I really appreicate it. Seems like information overload though haha. Have you read all of those books? I will look into this.

Can you give a brief rundown of what you've found out from these books? I dont want you to have to type out anything super lengthy but maybe a paragraph or 2.

Thanks once again

[i am all i am]

I am all I am

Thanks for all the book listings bro. I really appreicate it. Seems like information overload though haha. Have you read all of those books? I'd like to pick one possibly to see what it is about.

Can you give a brief rundown of what you've found out from these books? I dont want you to have to type out anything lengthy but maybe a paragraph or 2.

Thanks once again

if you had to recomend the best of the books that you listed which would it be?

G'day Archangel.

I've read all but 'The Twin Deception'.

'The Bible Fraud' is written from 12 years full-time research by Bushby. Referenced throughout from many sources, including church documentation. It gives the details of twins, Rabbi Jesus and Judas Krestus, and how they were formed into one at the council of Nicea by Emperor Constantine to create the story of the New Testament. There are many gems throughout the book.

'The Secret in the Bible' carries on the information and shows that the 22 Hebrew glyphs are representations of aspects of the DNA. It is encoded within the Bible, the Tarot deck and the Book of the Dead. It also shows the underground tunnels on the Giza Plateau and how they were used for initiation rites, with 22 chambers and an explanation for each chamber, including where it is encoded in each source.

'The Cucifixion of Truth' shows the secrets of the church and the deceptions that they have used to control and keep people ignorant.

Personally, I would recommend all three, but if you are looking to answer your question in your original post, go with The Bible Fraud. Although, I love the information that is contained within The Secret in the Bible and the links with Egypt and the DNA.

With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[archangel]

I am all I am

I will check into these books. I will order these today.

From what you learned was Jesus Devine in any way? What did he teach? Is anything in the New testament True? or is it just a bunch of Fables mixed with hidden paganism?

[i am all i am]

I am all I am

I will check into these books. I will order these today.

From what you learned was Jesus Devine in any way? What did he teach? Is anything in the New testament True? or is it just a bunch of Fables mixed with hidden paganism?

G'day Archangel.

There are over 14, 800 differences and mistakes in the Bibles in circulation today compared to the Mount Sinai Bible, the oldest known bible. The New Testament is a re-telling of a much older story with new names. Jesus and the 12 disciples - the sun and the 12 houses, or star signs, of astrology. Basically, sun worship.

I believe that we are all divine and that no one individual is more special than another. The Secret in the Bible shows the language that was used for the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) were created from the DNA strand and this is why they are believed to be divinely inspired, The Word of God. Here's a link to a thread that I started where there is some more information on this...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2119
DNA and the Origins of Knowledge

Here's part of it from post #31...

In 'The Secret in the Bible', by Tony Bushby, the 22 glyphs of the Hebrew alphabet are shown to be representations of the DNA strand.

"The only Holy Book

For thousnads of years, spiritual teachers of Jewish traditions claimed that the five major Hebrew texts making up the Torah were 'holy', of special significance, and of supernatural origin...and they were right. By producing an exact copy of the spiral shape of the Rainbow Serpent from plastic, brass, a strip of metal or a similar solid substance, its significance becomes apparent, and that item could be best described as 'light descended into matter'. It is the primary element of both the Book of Thoth and the Secret in the Bible and the precise twisty shape of the Rainbow Serpent provides the necessary form to physically demonstrate a major part of the Secret. When the plastic or metal reproduction of the Rainbow Serpent is slowly revolved, 22 different shaped shadows are cast from that one element, and those shapes directly make up the 22 seperate letters of the alphabet that the Torah was written in. Put in simplest terms, the alphabet in which the Torah of the Bible was originally and secretly written was one composed of a series of 22 cosmic glyphs that emanated with 'splendour and power in the form of a serpent' from a vertical spiral of light in the Benben on top of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. Evidence of that knowledge points directly at the undeniable input of a higher intelligence, a superior mind source."

-The Secret in the Bible, by Tony Bushby, page 256.

The "twisty shape of the Rainbow Serpent" is a similar description that is used 'The Cosmic Serpent', "language-twisting-twisting" and "twisted language", to describe the DNA by shamans.

Enjoy the books and I would love to hear what you thought of them.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[archangel]

I am all I am

I will let you know what I think about the books.

What I meant by Devine is: was he an Annunaki, or half breed "demi-God" of some sorts.

I am fully aware of the Pagan story involved behind the Jesus story. The sun, 12 houses of the zodiac, etc.

The bright star over bethlahem represented the age of Picses and is why Christianity is represented with the Fish.

In LUKE 22:10, we read Jesus say around the time of passover that when he is gone, he instructs his Disciples to go to the city where they will be greated by a man bearing a pitcher of water.

The Passover is the transition of one age to the next and the man bearing a water pitcher is an astrological representation of the Age Of Aquarius which will occur on December 21, 2012. were you aware of that fact???

However, you stated that Jesus was real and had a twin Brother. I'm just posing the question, who was this guy, what was his story, what did he teach, etc.

thanks again.

[utukxul]

[QUOTE=archangel;38116

The bright star over bethlahem represented the age of Picses and is why Christianity is represented with the Fish.

[/QUOTE]

ohh that's why they use fish as symbol, ....and not beacuse they smell like it....sorry

[i am all i am]

I am all I am

I will let you know what I think about the books.

What I meant by Devine is: was he an Annunaki, or half breed "demi-God" of some sorts.

I am fully aware of the Pagan story involved behind the Jesus story. The sun, 12 houses of the zodiac, etc.

The bright star over bethlahem represented the age of Picses and is why Christianity is represented with the Fish.

In LUKE 22:10, we read Jesus say around the time of passover that when he is gone, he instructs his Disciples to go to the city where they will be greated by a man bearing a pitcher of water.

The Passover is the transition of one age to the next and the man bearing a water pitcher is an astrological representation of the Age Of Aquarius which will occur on December 21, 2012. were you aware of that fact???

However, you stated that Jesus was real and had a twin Brother. I'm just posing the question, who was this guy, what was his story, what did he teach, etc.

thanks again.

G'day Archangel.

That is a lot to write, so I thought that I would cheat a bit a post you parts of this article from rense.com, which in itself is a long article...



Behind The Bible Fraud -
What Was The Church
Trying To Hide?

--------------------------------------------

Ancient church evidence established that a new 'god' was to be approved by the Roman Emperor and an earlier attempt (circa 210) to deify either Judas Khrestus or his twin brother Rabbi Jesus (or somebody else) had been 'declined'. Therefore, as late as 325, the Christian religion did not have an official god.

After a long and bitter debate, a vote was finally taken and it was with a majority show of hands that Judas Khrestus and Rabbi Jesus both became God (161votes for and 157 votes against). The Emperor effectively joined elements of the two individual life stories of the twin brothers into a singular creation. The doctrine of the Celtic / British church of the west was democratically attached to the Presbyters stories of the east.

--------------------------------------

The elder brother, Judas Khrestus, with his "Khrestian" followers conspired to take the throne of Rome, his royal birthright, and was captured, tried, and was sentenced to be crucified. (The "Khrestians" and the Essenic army, the Nazarenes, would today be likened to terrorists.) At the trial, Judas exercised his royal birthright to have a replacement in Simon of Cyrene (Luke 23:41) and then was sold as a slave to live out his days as a carpenter in India.

Rabbi Jesus spent a considerable amount of time at the Palace of the British in Rome and sometime around 48 AD, he left for Egypt to pursue his greatest esoteric goal. The spiritual knowledge from his secret education in the Essene and Druid movements was soon to be elevated to the highest level possible - initiation into the innermost rite of the Egyptian temples.

It was probable that Rabbi Jesus' earlier initiation into both the Essene and Druid schools played a major part in his acceptance into the Egyptian school. The Druids could claim a very early origin and the essence of their wisdom was also that of the Essenes. In the case of the Essenes, it is possible to show that their movement was specifically established to preserve secret information, for they knew and used the sacred writing of the Initiates. The full meaning of the point being made by Bushby is that in the case of all Secret Schools, the inner and ultimate Mystery was revealed only to a High Initiate.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.rense.com/general66/hide.htm

Anyway, the link is there if you would like to read more from the article.


With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[tinmenace]

Ok, let's not all get all slippery with whom this thread is supposed to be about. Let's clarify so that we're all on the same page.

Are we talking about the so-called biblical figure, Jesus of Nazareth? The Jesus that supposedly died on the cross? The same dude that supposedly walked on water, turned water into wine and had 12 disciples?

If you mean him. No, I don't believe he was an actual person.

If you have a theory of an event or recipe and you've named it Jesus, please be specific about it.

[eyedontbelieveu]

There are many people named Jesus, especially where I live. The revolutionary whom the Romans murdered, his name was not Jesus, nor was it Jesus Christ, nor was it Christ. The H.O.L.Y. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth serves a purpose other than what the masses tend to believe.

P.E.A.C.E.

[eternal_spirit]

There are many people named Jesus, especially where I live. The revolutionary whom the Romans murdered, his name was not Jesus, nor was it Jesus Christ, nor was it Christ. The H.O.L.Y. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth serves a purpose other than what the masses tend to believe.

P.E.A.C.E.


And what is it's purpose?????????

[eternal_spirit]

Hang on let me guess........To confuse people, scare, divide, offer false salvation and to promote Satanism as well as Chrisitianity!

[chicken_little]

There are many people named Jesus, especially where I live. The revolutionary whom the Romans murdered, his name was not Jesus, nor was it Jesus Christ, nor was it Christ. The H.O.L.Y. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth serves a purpose other than what the masses tend to believe.

P.E.A.C.E.

Yes, do share! :)

[i am all i am]

The Truth About the Jesus Myth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2zNJcPiIDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dvupiOb6D4&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKd45wDcXEc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZH8bgYlYjU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLj0T_gzIg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sVtgOf1pUY&mode=related&search=


With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[archangel]

I saw this video about a year ago.

Here it is as a full Video.

The Naked Truth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234&q=the+naked+truth&hl=en

It does a great Job at explaining what every thing means. This video will surely infuriate a devote christian.

I'm curious to read about who the "real" Jesus was though. Hopeully I will learn a few things from the book you recomended, The Bible Fraud. That is the book you said discusses the 'real Jesus' life...correct?

[bigus_dickus]

I saw this video about a year ago.

Here it is as a full Video.

The Naked Truth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234&q=the+naked+truth&hl=en

It does a great Job at explaining what every thing means. This video will surely infuriate a devote christian.

I'm curious to read about who the "real" Jesus was though. Hopeully I will learn a few things from the book you recomended, The Bible Fraud. That is the book you said discusses the 'real Jesus' life...correct?

i am watching the video. i have watched it before i think, or i have watched other maxwell's videos where he said the same things and i have also listened to his tapes and interviews.

many things of what he says are wrong. he makes false assumptions and thus arrive to false and biased conclusions in many cases.

examples (one by one)

the cornerstone

he talks about the cornerstone mentioned in the bible (ακρογωνιαιος λιθος) and that it refers to ancient egypt, the capstone of the pyramid and the "illuminati" image of the pyramid on the dollar bill.

nonsense. the eye is not in the capstone, nor in the pyramid, the eye is in the center of a triangle. that's right, it is a 2D shape with an eye in it, not a pyramidal shape with an eye in the center. check out your dollar bills and check out the significance of the triangle.

baptism

he says that baptism means that they worshiped water as their god and that it was an egyptian practice. it is actually a custom all over the world, in the pagan traditions. one needs to understand that pagan is not a religion in the sense that religions have today. maybe it could be understood as a collection of traditions that helped people to develop cultures and archetypes.

the lamb of god

he says that 'dalai lama' actually means the 'lamb of god' and parallels it with jesus being refered to as the lamb of god, but dalai lama doesn't mean that.

dalai means "ocean" and lama means "guru".

he seems to be counting on common ignorance.

amen ra(!!!)

excuse me? it's ammon ra, that's what i always knew. and he says that when in christianity we say "amen" we are paying tribute to "amen ra" an ancient egyptian god? of course not.

amen
O.E., from L.L. amen, from Gk. amen, from Heb., "truth," used adverbially as an expression of agreement (e.g. Deut. xxvii.26, I Kings i.36; cf. Mod.Eng. verily, surely, absolutely in the same sense), from Sem. root a-m-n "to be trustworthy, confirm, support." Used in O.E. only at the end of Gospels, otherwise translated as Soðlic! or Swa hit ys, or Sy!. As an expression of concurrence after prayers, it is recorded from c.1230.

from www.etymonline.com. nuff said.

connections of jesus with horus, krishna and buddha

these are true connections, and there's obviously a significance for this! we have the same stories repeated, because the new stories were made from the old ones. that's old news.

but, then he says that seth resembles satan?

and even more erroneous and biased assumptions there.

and why do they spell krishna, chrishna???

sun of god - son of god

hilarious.. they were talking in english back then you see and everything was written in english originally. that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard, also mentioned by michael tsarion.

in the house of my father, there are many mansions

here is the original greek text

2 ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ τοῦ πατρός μου μοναὶ πολλαί εἰσιν· εἰ δὲ μή, εἶπον ἂν ὑμῖν ὅτι πορεύομαι ἑτοιμάσαι τόπον ὑμῖν;

translation:

in my father's house, there are many monasteries. if there were not, i would tell you that i am going (walking) to prepare a place for you.

maxwell says that it means the houses of the sun, on the zodiac. whatever does it for you, jordan.

then he goes on about how "evil" and new age astrology is. but.. of course.

the other dude says "astronomy". do these guys have a clue of what they are talking about?

mazzaroth

he says that mazzaroth (μαζουρωθ, pronounced mazuroth) is the zodiac. well, that's not certain, there is much discord about this.

here is something from wiki
The meaning of the word Mazzaroth has been in contention for some hundreds of years as the scarce but adequate literature confirms. Traditional sources generally interpret the word as meaning constellation, though usually understood in the plural, constellations; where others agree it specifically refers to the zodiac and possibly the planet Venus.

It is believed by some historians and scholars that the purpose behind this astrological reference was a prophetic guide to the coming of the Jewish Messiah. The knowledge of this was known to many in the ancient world, being aurally perpetuated to succeeding generations from Seth (see the Book of Genesis, the 5th chapter) and eventually to Job and his contemporaries.

...
According to the ancient Hebrews, the names of the constellations, figures and the signs of the ancient zodiac were given by Yahweh (the unutterable name of God) from the beginning of creation; however as it has been known to happen, certain etymological meanings and roots have eroded throughout time, with the ancient Hebrew language underdoing numerous changes and modifications in its history.

The mystery of the Mazzaroth is indeed, a rewarding and fascinating subject; the student of which will be taken on a figurative journey from: Virgo- the virgin woman, to Leo- the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, as the handiwork and the nature of the Hebrew God is revealed. Each constellation represents one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

end of the age

referring to matthew 28:20, he says that jesus says "i am with you until the end of the age", meaning the age of pisces.

original text:
Ματθ. 28,20 διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν· καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ᾿ ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος. Ἀμήν.

translation: teaching them all the things i told you, and behold, i will be with you in all of your days until the end of this century. amen.

matthew 12:32 again, in the original text the word is "αιών" which means "century" and refers to their lives and to their future and not the change of the ages that maxwell says.

matthew 13:39 he says it talks about the end of the age of pisces

original: Ματθ. 13,39 ὁ δὲ ἐχθρὸς ὁ σπείρας αὐτά ἐστιν ὁ διάβολος· ὁ δὲ θερισμὸς συντέλεια τοῦ αἰῶνός ἐστιν· οἱ δὲ θερισταὶ ἄγγελοί εἰσιν.

translation: the enemy, though, the seeder of these (weeds) is the devil and the harvest is the end of the world. and the harvesters are angels.

here, the word "αιών" in context, means "world". this guy is reading the wrong bible.

matthew 24,3, the same as above

mark 10:29, 30 he says it is talking about the "age to come" meaning the "age of aquarius".

it's again the same confusion over and over... need i go on.

end times

he says that the end times, is the end of the age of pisces.

and then he says that "we are in the end times" and we are in the age of pisces. maybe he listened too much of that song and he believed it.

according to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Pisces#The_Age_of_Pisces_.28Pisces-Virgo.29
The Age of Pisces is the current age, and will remain so until approximately 2600. At that time, the vernal equinox point will no longer be facing Pisces, but both the Zodical sign of Aquarius and the constellation of Aquarius, thus beginning the Age of Aquarius.

jordan is actually 580 years ahead of his time.

sun giving life, sun giving "his" life :rolleyes:, son giving his life

lol :rolleyes:

i can go on with the rest of the video and with everything else this guys has said and debunk it all.

he looks half learned and, to be honest, he doesn't look very bright to me. he doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about. and he makes a name of himself and money with this stuff?

he has a very limited understanding of the significance of the sun and its role in our life and our myths.

[i am all i am]

I saw this video about a year ago.

Here it is as a full Video.

The Naked Truth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234&q=the+naked+truth&hl=en

It does a great Job at explaining what every thing means. This video will surely infuriate a devote christian.

I'm curious to read about who the "real" Jesus was though. Hopeully I will learn a few things from the book you recomended, The Bible Fraud. That is the book you said discusses the 'real Jesus' life...correct?

G'day Archangel.

That is correct.

It shows the falsehood of the church teachings and their origins. This includes the 'real Jesus', and how the New Testament was created.

I have 'The Naked Truth' on DVD, as well as other Jordan Maxwell videos. There is some very interesting information that he gives.


With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[archangel]

BD

I think you are correct about alot of that stuff.

However, The main point of that video, about Jesus and the other savior stories all being similar is true as far as I Know. That is what we are discussing since this thread is about Jesus.

Born of a Virgin
scolded elders at age 12
started ministry at age 30
12 diciples/helpers
died at 33
etc
etc

as far as the the age of aquarius. I was under the Impression this age began in 2012 ????

[bigus_dickus]

However, The main point of that video, about Jesus and the other savior stories all being similar is true as far as I Know. That is what we are discussing since this thread is about Jesus.

yes, i think i wrote in my post that there are reasons for that, other than what mr maxwell thinks though..

and i think i wrote something relevant in some other threads.

know what, if there is a connection behind everything, so people can see the real thing behind the illusion, this is one way, either it was intended for that or not.

the other thing that i have pointed out is, people will have to "feel" like resonating with the truth, coming by supposed "god spoken" writings, so how else are you going to do it without including it, as you have done before several times.

another thing is that, unfortunately not all people were (but alot less today) ready to face the truth.. and they had to pass through religious systems first. if that didn't happen in our history, would we be here now as we are? (i am not judging how we are however, that's for everyone to decide themselves).

or maybe there are other reasons too that i am not aware of. but it's not about "sun" worshiping as maxwell says. he says that in context with his own background which must be christian (speculation of mine), so he thinks that worshiping of the sun or anything else, is the same with worshiping god in a monotheistic based religious system.

but it is not like that in my opinion. i can't judge by my own rules, but by the rules of those who had them. so there have been times in human history that people were performing human sacrifices to deities and this looks like an 'evil, satanic' act by us, coming from a religious background, but how did they see it back then? if they didn't see it as 'evil', then we have no right to call it that! i hope you understand the way i think.

as far as the the age of aquarius. I was under the Impression this age began in 2012 ????

me too, but it just doesn't... i am no expert, but i think that the whole scam, is to bring everything together in 2012, very much based on the mayan calendar.

for what i know, the whole concept of the zodiac and the so called ages, is nothing more than a scam to confuse people more. entrapment to linear time once more.. everyone can say whatever they want about how to name ages and when they begin and end.

i can start a bigus dickus age from my birthday and on, until my soul leaves this universe 3,000 years later and hocus pocus like that that mean nothing, unless you believe them.

however, if what he says about it is true, then we are already in it since 2000 (not 2012), because the age of pisces, according to some, ended in 1999.

but, anyone can say whatever the hell they want...

and when people believe them, this becomes their reality sooner or later. and if a lot of people believe them, then you get born and you are taught about it as a "default".

[awakensong]

I did an enormous amount of reading about all this - as to whether there was truly an Historical Jesus - when deciding to come out of Churchianity about 7 years ago, including the books by Bushby.

One of the most interesting and believable presentations for me has been Michael Tsarion's "The Cult of Aton" (http://www.taroscopes.com/astro-theology/astrotheology.html) which includes a possible identification of the historical Jesus, who would have actually lived about 150 years prior to what we call "Bible Times".

[awakensong]

Here's something I just found - one person's belief and theory - I don't know if it's true or not, but I've seen similar articles.

Apollonius of Tyanna - The Real Jesus (http://www.librarising.com/spirituality/apollo.html)

[amadeus]

end times

he says that the end times, is the end of the age of pisces.

and then he says that "we are in the end times" and we are in the age of pisces. maybe he listened too much of that song and he believed it.

according to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Pisces#The_Age_of_Pisces_.28Pisces-Virgo.29


jordan is actually 580 years ahead of his time.


Just a quick comment on the 'end of times' thing. I'm not sure what your trying to say here? Can you please explain what you find contradicting here? According to one astronomer:
"What does the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius mean?
The constellation in which the Vernal Equinox occurs changes as the axis of the Earth precesses during its 25,784 year cycle. This means it spends about 25784/12 = 2148 years in each of the 12 zodiacal constellations. Right now it is in the zodiacal 'house' of Pisces so we are in the Piscean Age according to astrology. In 2377 AD we will enter the 'Aquarian Age' so that right now we are in the 'Dawning' of Aquarius. -Copyright 1997 Dr. Sten Odenwald-"

So aren't we now in the end (times) of the Piscean Age and the dawning of the Aquarian age? Thus it is "the end times" of the constellation of Pisces. The constellations aren't side by side are they, so the transition is a gradual process isn't it?

[awakensong]

I mostly see this the same was that you do, Amadeus. The "end of the age" or "end of time", and as some say that 2012 will be the "end of time 'as we know it'", to me means the end of the Age of Pisces. We have known this "time", this "age", as the Age of Pisces, and 2012 will be the end of it, and the beginning of the next or "new" age of Aquarius. It also seems that the end of each "age" brings many apocalytpic experiences to earth, which are being referred to as "the end times", or "the tribulation", which is a rebirthing to the next age.

If there is any more to it than that, we'll certainly find out when we get there. If vibrations raise because it is the Age of Aquarius, that would be nice.

[bigus_dickus]

Just a quick comment on the 'end of times' thing. I'm not sure what your trying to say here?

you made me watch part of this stupid video again!

watch at 55:00 and on what he says. the video was compiled in 1991-1994 and he says that each "age" is 2000 years and we have been in the age of pisces for 1990 years (the year that the particular part of the video was shot) and that we are "now" (1990) at the very end of "times", meaning the age of pisces that is going to end in the year 2000.

have you seen the site that they are promoting at the end, the lightworksav.com? take a look at it, it's mostly "new age" propaganda that they are pushing and of course selling.

you can find everything there except religion stuff and i mean occult, magic, UFOs and everything that the "new age" is about.

their logo

http://www.lightworksav.com/images/xtras/categoryheaders/LW%20circle%20art%20no-pioneering%20medium.jpg

[fantabulous]

I FOUND JESUS, and he is in bad mood.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

[amadeus]

you made me watch part of this stupid video again!

watch at 55:00 and on what he says. the video was compiled in 1991-1994 and he says that each "age" is 2000 years and we have been in the age of pisces for 1990 years (the year that the particular part of the video was shot) and that we are "now" (1990) at the very end of "times", meaning the age of pisces that is going to end in the year 2000.


Ok, I don't know if this is worth a long debate but since you used it as an argument against J.M.(I'm trying to make up my mind about him, trying not to take sides) I have looked into this a little furhter.

I also watched that part of the video again, hehe... So I hear Jordan say: "[...] each age is ABOUT 2000 years long..." He doesn't mention a particular year when the age of Pisces is supposed to end. There also seems to be many different calculations of when the "ages" are suppose to shift. According to one site: So, from three very different calculations, we have the Age of Aquarius beginning from 2,060 to 2,100 AD. The whole article HERE (http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/ageaq1.htm)

And from wikipedia(yeah, I know...) we learn that:
[...]In astrology, an astrological age has usually been defined by the constellation in which the Sun actually appears at the vernal equinox. This is the method that Hipparchus appears to have applied around 127 BCE when he discovered precession. Like nearly everthing else related to the astrological ages, Hipparchus' approach remains contentious. Since each sign of the zodiac subtends (on average) 30 degrees, each astrological age might be thought to last about 72 × 30 = about 2150, 2156 or 2160 years (the most common ones). This means the Sun crosses the equator at the vernal equinox moving backwards against the fixed stars from one year to the next at the rate of one degree in seventy-two years, one constellation in about 2156 years, and the whole twelve signs in about 25 800, 25 868 or 25 920 years (the most common ones), sometimes called a Great Sidereal Year. The length of the ages are decreasing with time as the rate of precession is increasing. Therefore no two ages are of equal length [...]

And further:

[...]The Austrian astronomer, Professor Hermann Haupt, examined the question of when the Age of Aquarius begins in an article published in 1992 by the Austrian Academy of Science: with the German title Der Beginn des Wassermannzeitalters, eine astronomische Frage? (The Start of the Aquarian Age, an Astronomical Question?). Based on the boundaries accepted by IAU in 1928, Haupt's article investigates the start of the Age of Aquarius by calculating the entry of the spring equinox point over the parallel cycle (d = - 4°) between the constellations Pisces and Aquarius and reaches, using the usual formula of precession (Gliese, 1982), the year 2595. However Haupt concludes: "Though it cannot be expected that astrologers will follow the official boundaries of the constellations, there will be an attempt to calculate the entry of the spring equinox point into the constellation of Aquarius." and "As briefly has been shown, the results and methods of astrology in many areas, such as concerning the Aquarian age, are controversial on their own and cannot be called scientific because of the many esoteric elements.[...]"

So pinpointing the exact date of the shift of the ages seems quite impossible, and IMO not so relevant. What I found interesting was the references in the bible to the age of Aquarius(the man with the water pitcher) and other stuff he mentions. Maybe their just coincidenses, who knows...but certainly worth looking into.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/worm-read.gif

[i am all i am]

Here it is, the real Jesus has a website and will answer your questions.....

http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html

Jesus has returned and is part of the World Wide Web.....

Here's an excerpt from the home page...

This website is precisely an appearance of the Living Christ in a form adapted to what can be fathomed by the outer mind of most people. After I ascended to my Father, I, Jesus Christ, was given all power in Heaven and on Earth. Thus, I am fully capable of training a physical person to receive my Living Word and put it on a website that anyone can find and read.




http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[auron]

I also noticed that Jesus needs donations on his page. You can donate via pay pal.

[phoenix1]

G'day Archangel.

These are books by Tony Bushby that may be of help ....

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/picbible_01.gif
The Bible Fraud is Tony's first book where he tells the untold story of Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Khrestus.
http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/sample.htm - this is a link to the first chapter.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/bksecret_01.gif
In Tony's second bookThe Secret in the Bible, Tony describes the lost history of the Giza Plateau and tells how Temple priests of the Great Pyramid preserved the evidence of life beyond death.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/images/book_left_cruc.gif
In the third book in his series The Crucifixion of Truth, Tony takes his readers into the world of ecclesiastical dishonesty and reveals startling new evidence of forgery and fiction in the New Testament.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/images/books_twin_01.jpg
Deception unlocks the concealed evidence of Jesus’ twin brother and reveals how the church contrived for centuries to hide the information from the public.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

Way ta go IAAIA I am on book 3 Now,,,The Crucifiction of Truth.....They are brilliant must reads, I reckon for anyone wanting to find out whats what with Religion,,,,Especially the Krst.ian Religion ... there isn't one.... its a contrinved pack of lies. Attributed to The Jesus Invention . 2 Twin brothers.

ALthough there IS secret ifo buried in the Book....or books ar lies .. little truth..for the most part.. ans what truth tere is non of it relates to Jesus at all. I was there at the Councill of Nicaea ... helping em sort it out LOL...Vatican Liars...Persbyter cover ups/

Get the books... Amozon...Brilliant...UK users (The Book Repository is best for prices here...yep Amazon....Good stuff indeed.. and well resreached and backed up stuff....)

TY IAAIA Mince onr Bro!!:):)

[i am all i am]

Auron - There is also a book for sale...mmmmm...I wonder which bible translation Jesus promotes, and if there isn't one, why doesn't he have one written and endorsed by himself ???

Pheonix - You're welcome brother. They are a great read and well worth the effort, definitely a few books to have in the home library.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[graflok]

What's the plural of Jesus?

[tinmenace]

Do tell!

[graflok]

I dunno -- I was just asking.

[bigus_dickus]

So pinpointing the exact date of the shift of the ages seems quite impossible, and IMO not so relevant. What I found interesting was the references in the bible to the age of Aquarius(the man with the water pitcher) and other stuff he mentions. Maybe their just coincidenses, who knows...but certainly worth looking into.

or maybe they were intentionally put there to confuse.

but, i even consider the possibility that it is actually talking about the end of the age of pisces and the beginning of aquarius, as he says. and maybe those who wrote those things had an agenda as he says. what does that have to do with "astrology being satanic and evil" as he says. because christians believe so? people believe stuff! i don't think that astrology is evil, but it can be deceiving. however, i think that what he really means to promote, is astrology, because he "proves" its goodness by showing it being "hidden" in the bible. so it was never "evil", it is just a deception of the church, the bible mentions it. or he means that it is really evil and so is the bible that mentions it. but then again i look at their publishers website and find out that they promote astrology in various ways. does he have a secret agenda, or is he being naive? who knows... i really don't pay much attention to those guys, i don't mind them, but i prefer other better stuff than theirs. they feel like propaganda to me.

[amadeus]

or maybe they were intentionally put there to confuse.

but, i even consider the possibility that it is actually talking about the end of the age of pisces and the beginning of aquarius, as he says. and maybe those who wrote those things had an agenda as he says. what does that have to do with "astrology being satanic and evil" as he says. because christians believe so? people believe stuff! i don't think that astrology is evil, but it can be deceiving. however, i think that what he really means to promote, is astrology, because he "proves" its goodness by showing it being "hidden" in the bible. so it was never "evil", it is just a deception of the church, the bible mentions it. or he means that it is really evil and so is the bible that mentions it. but then again i look at their publishers website and find out that they promote astrology in various ways. does he have a secret agenda, or is he being naive? who knows... i really don't pay much attention to those guys, i don't mind them, but i prefer other better stuff than theirs. they feel like propaganda to me.

You have a point there brother. I got the impression that Jordan was just trying to show the origins of the stories in the bible - like sort of "don't take everything for granted" & "do your homework and investigate the bible for your self". I think he's just trying to present the other side of the coin. That said I must add that the "personal timescopes" that M.T. is promoting is kind of weird stuff. But I haven't really looked into that yet, so who knows maybe he's onto something. I mean planets are HUGE and one would tend to believe that their motions affect the reality in some way, dunno.

Apropos, I just listened to one radioshow with Michael T. and I remember that he especially pointed out, that he has his own believes(like in the higher consciousness of the universe) but he NEVER promotes them or even talk about them because otherwise the listeners would take sides and be divided. Because its more important to him that the facts and information reaches the public in its "purest" form. I think that's well said.

[fantabulous]

Here it is, the real Jesus has a website and will answer your questions.....

That site never stops speaking without the presence of boundless certainty. It is a clear cut sign of insanity, when beliefs are claimed to be facts.

_____________________________________________

If a Christ was to appear on this earth, then he would appear at a time when man had surpassed mere beliefs, a time when mankind was now able to see actual truths, and thus the truth he speaks to them, will be heard by them.

If an anti-Christ was to appear, then he must appear at a time prior to mankind having evolved beyond the point of being dependent upon beliefs. At this time period, since mankind depends upon the belief system, they can be heavily deceived.

Therefore it would be logical for the real Christ to also appear at the time when mankind was still practicing a dependency upon mere beliefs, and do the best that is possible while under such limitations.

And so it gets very confusing, for if man continues to have religious " Beliefs ", then at the time when the real Christ appears and speaks in truths, no one will believe him, for truth is beyond belief. I would say that they would tread upon him and crucify him once again.

Truth is beyond belief, because if you were to look directly at a complete truth, then it becomes necessary step back and look off to the side if one is to look at a mere belief instead. Thus the complete truth is beyond the limits of belief. If the truth presented is not the same as the belief, which it can obviously not be since truth and belief are not one in the same, then it becomes classified as an unbelievable, or as a lie.

The anti-Christ would therefore have to appear while mankind was still practicing a dependency upon mere beliefs, but at a slightly later date after the real Christ had appeared. The deception thrown at mankind would have a central point. This means that one person would be the central target.

If the world survives and knows not of such an occurrence, it is because the central target was the real Christ in disguise.

But then again, who would care. No one takes anything seriously these days.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm (http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm)

[tinmenace]

For those of you that care to answer this...Who do you think represents Christianity well? A living person preferably, please.

[2013]

I actually went through a phase a few years ago where i thought i was Jesus!

Hey man you are , all this i do you can do and more was supposedly said by jesus , he came to show us the way to become christlike like he did apparently , wether he existed or not there a re lots of jesus's the healer , preacher ,actual king of the jews, alien , son of god etc your own personal jesus someone to hear your prayers someone who cares . Its what you take from the story thats important living your life in the best way you can true to yourself , charity begins at home he said ? so be who you are and strive to live a good life and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.Religious words do carry some truth .I believe wether or not he existed he does now thru the projected thoughts of those who belive , but also that each age has a hero and villian for that time and as above so below .The astronomical and astrologicla movements in the heavens are reflected here on earth so that there will arise someone whos mission here on earth is to fulfill that role to guide us for good or bad its all learning .Jesus was the light of the world and asociated with the morning and evening star venus lucifer was the light bringer and also assocaited with venus as morning and evening star .In mythology usually twins were born one good one bad to battle for the light and dark . Is jesus just the light side of lucifer ,and if certain gruops use reverse meanings so lucifer the light bringer becomes a dark force then how can the jesus energy be percieved as good ? Just some of my thoughts not beliefs beliefs are often defended sometimesto the death its better to have ideas :D Be good be love .

[auron]

http://www.themaskedblogger.com/images/thanks_for_the_info.jpg

[i am all i am]

For those of you that care to answer this...Who do you think represents Christianity well? A living person preferably, please.

G'day Tinmenace.

This would depend on what you described "christianity" to be.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[tinmenace]

You're right my friend, but for the sake of simplicity I'll accept any version. I'm just trying to gauge perceptions.

[bigus_dickus]

You have a point there brother. I got the impression that Jordan was just trying to show the origins of the stories in the bible - like sort of "don't take everything for granted" & "do your homework and investigate the bible for your self".

i know, i started looking into his stuff having this in mind, but soon enough i realized that his understanding of some things is different than mine and greek people in general who read the same book in the original language. and most times, he interprets words wrong and i find many semantic errors too in the english translations that can be misleading.

I think he's just trying to present the other side of the coin. That said I must add that the "personal timescopes" that M.T. is promoting is kind of weird stuff. But I haven't really looked into that yet, so who knows maybe he's onto something. I mean planets are HUGE and one would tend to believe that their motions affect the reality in some way, dunno.

apparently everything affects everything, from the smallest molecule to the biggest planet. i have listened to a lot of MT's interviews, seen some videos and read his book. he seems honest, but he is not a teacher. he goes about what he believes and maybe he believes that some "occult" practices are helpful. i think they are deception, but maybe he doesn't see it that way.

that's maybe because of his background, theosophy and rosicrucians, that can be serious mind control, if taken too seriously. too hard to break free from it. all stories are fictions, which fiction do we believe?

[bigus_dickus]

For those of you that care to answer this...Who do you think represents Christianity well? A living person preferably, please.

no one.. christianity is divided to a lot of sects. if we put them all together, they don't make a religion, but a government with political parties.

[paulski]

In Stewart Swerdlow's books (Blue blood, True blood) he talks about the illuminati's plan to have a cloned Christ 'appear'( he states that he was put back in time to collect blood from Christ on the cross) and for this to be the beginning of the planned World Government.


Just thought I'd throw that in:D

[tinmenace]

no one.. christianity is divided to a lot of sects. if we put them all together, they don't make a religion, but a government with political parties.

Very well put.

Anyone else? Defenders? No body?

[i am all i am]

Very well put.

Anyone else? Defenders? No body?

It appears that there are no christians willing to address this topic.

Mmmmmm...I wonder why ??? http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_186.gif

Do you think that they haven't responded because they cannot answer ???

There has been a few christians around the forum lately telling us all about J.C., etc. Has this question scared them all off ???




http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[bigus_dickus]

It appears that there are no christians willing to address this topic.

i am christian orthodox, but not a fanatic. neither a sheep nor a wolf.

[i am all i am]

i am christian orthodox, but not a fanatic. neither a sheep nor a wolf.

I sit corrected.

I would stand, but it is more difficult to type standing up.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[phoenix1]

i am christian orthodox, but not a fanatic. neither a sheep nor a wolf.

If I were you Bigus mate... with respect I would most deffimately read those books.

They are not massive read nor expensive... that aint big books.....BUT the Knowledge and wisdom contained within them.... could fill the Library of Alexandria and Celsus's Library in Turkey.

Do your head a favour.. learn the real deal.. find out what is not and what is not.

See the Dogma .. millions have died for.. for a contrived purpetrated lie that the Jesus fable is.

Read ...and Learn mate. (your choice of course)

(also discover the true origin of Islam...in The Crucifixtion of Truth... fucking staggering ... but all bang on target.

Respectfully

Phoenix

[fccool]

Hehe people. Everyone of you make the same logical error. You try to back up undocumented history with assumptions. There were very few mentions of Jesus outside of the Bible that were preserved. All of them after his death. They say that there was a person named Jesus who did in fact die and that people concidered him a great teacher. Outside of these few accounts we hardly have any real preserved historical documentation. Unfortunatly, absence of proof is not a proof of absence. I've read many books on that subject and frankly people quote some dubious sources, and those sources quote other sources. Do you really expect the "self" not get in the way of truth in this case weather the author is Christian or a Debunker. I is very hard to know truth nowerdays because everything is a quote of a quote of a quote.... and all from the so called "experts" on the subject. And then people go around screaming: " Well so and so said is his so and so book that so and so happened or not happened"

Ask yourself this question. How do you know that you know. And more importantly. How can you prove that you know that you know. And the answer is ... you can't. You can't prove that Jesus existed and you can't prove that he did not for that matter based on the historical information left. There will always be some kind of possibility that someone along the way decided that his version is better... and that goes for virtually everything you know! From the moment you are a child you learn everything as you told. Sure some things you can prove... 2+2=4 and etc. But how do you know that Earth really rotates around the sun and not the other way? 90% of what you believe is by faith. If you have not experienced it first hand ... you believe by faith (pure definition of the word's meaning).

Now look up the definition of the "religion". If you are saying that you don't fit in the category you are only kidding yourselves. By definition you every day believe religiously far more than you expect:

Atheism - religion... it has chance as a supernatural creator and set of rules and even morality. Disbelief is a belief too :)

Medicine - religion... even if you are a doctor, you accept many of the facts by faith. People don't know what causes testicular cancer. Still to this day we know very little about brain and its functions... how thoughts form. What exactly makes us alive.

Science - biggest religion of them all. Every scientific theory is a statement of faith.

David Icke - pantheism/new age/buddism .... everything is God nothing really exists but it is all God's dream. Love is the answer.

You - can't prove how it all began, can't prove your purpose here, have to assume based on very little original information you have... you are a religious person, my friend.

So my advice to you is to be humble and try to sort through truth without making rush assumptions. It will take me a while, but I'll try to explain to you why I do believe Jesus was a real person and why I do believe that Christianity (in its pure form - non denominational Christianity which pretty much mixed shit with honey) is something to consider. Forgive my long essay, but I think any opinion is worth hearing and considering. I don't have all the truth, but neither do you... so we can all learn from each other.

#1 Origins:

Look around you and think. Just think with me for a second. Think about the planet that you live on. It is absolutely perfect for life. Currently we can only prove that life exists on one and one planet alone. I don't rule out the possibility of life on another planets, but there's yet very little substantial proof that we can see, touch or smell. If Earth would be a couple miles closer to the sun by 2%... we would all burn. If it would be further by that much... we would all freeze. If ice would not float on water, it would sink to the bottom and all of the oceans would freeze making the life impossible. Without oxygen the animals can not live and these produce C02 in the atmosphere, without C02 the plants can not live so these produce oxygen. In nature almost everything is interdepended and working symbiotically.

Now let's look at the human body. If one of the bodily systems get's disabled... you can die. You have really no idea how complex human body is. It is absolutely amazing! DNA carries enough enformation not only to reproduce human being, but to rebuild him throughout his life. Our cells are microscopic factories that get damaged and rebuilt. The nervous system tells our body how to move, and the endocrinal system sontrols temperature/digestion/growth/reproduction functions ... and thousands of others. Our eyes are so complex that we still yet to figure out how brain interprets the information and is able to store it. We only now started to figure out how brain really works and what we know is probably less than fraction of a percent. The reproduction system is so complex and so fine tured to work together in both male and female to bring forth the ofspring.

The nature itself is cyclical. Everything is in cycles. I don't have to go through these. You know it. I could go on and one, but you get my drift. If the chance is so intelligent, then why do we associate it with chaos and unpredictability????

So from the above I can safely and resonably deduce the following. With what we know about chance, 99.9999999(9)% most likely this world with everything in it was created and set in motion. Now, but cause and effect law.... everything effected must have a cause. Can something be without cause? It's not easy for us to grasp, but logically there should be something that is such - without a cause. That entity we call God. Now, how do I know that God is not a tyrant and that he is loving? Once again.... look around you and look at yourself? Are you well built and have choice over your actions? Do you enjoy food, sex, you hobbies, being creative, relationships, and whatever it is that you enjoy? Do you appreciate beauty? Does God himself descend from wherever he is out there and sream " Look at me , obey or die! So.... SIT! STAND! SING!" Not that I've ever heard or seen... so, sure... we were designed by a saddist control freak God :). NOT!

So you see, you don't have to read 2000 books to know that God exists and that he is loving. You can deduce it from the environment. That's how I first came to know God (if it is transcendend then it has no gender, but it looks like It does have a person and characteristics similar to ours).

As I said, I don't think God is a control freak, so he created everything with a choice in mind. Now, when you have a choice, you have a risk of people reject you... if you are God. If you come down and smite whoever rejects you... then you are not really loving. Hence the evil would have to be logically permited. Otherwise there would be no choice to do which is "evil". What is evil by definition? What is Christianity defines as sin? It's not some dubious force that wraps around your heart every time you do something wrong... When you create something... it automatically has a purpose. If you like it, then you enjoy it and let it be used in some way. If you don't, then you would not create it in the first place. But what if... you create a beautiful portrait of your girlfriend and put your heart and soul into it... and then she cuts it up and uses it for a toilet paper? Would you be angry? Dump her... maybe perhaps give her another chance ... and she does it again. This time squats in front of you to take a big dump right in the middle of the picture. I know, a bit strechy analogy. But here's another one. If there would be a functioning world to exist... it would have to have some set of natural laws. You would not be jumping out of the airplane expecting to defy gravity. Why? Because you believe in gravity, and defying gravity can hurt you. It is so with everything around us.
Our bodies do not come with instruction manual and neither does this world. That's why we all here at this board trying to peice things together.
The notion of the original sin is not about eating the fruit from the tree. The original sin is deciding that your way is better and go agains the design that this world and we are built upon. In doing so we eventually will break down , and in doing so we take a huge dump in the middle of the portait of the creator. And yes, it did got pretty bad throughout the history , I believe, that everything was whiped out to give us a chance to exist normally, but you see... we can not do it without some kind of direction and principles. If you do, then why are you here at this board? Honestly. Because you know everything, hehe? So coming back to the Biblical morality. The actual biblical morality as you know is in 10 commandments and then teachings of Jesus who explained what these really mean to those who misunderstood.

Now many people have questions... if God is so loving... why requere blood sacrifices? I believe it has very little to do with "atonment", and more to do with the message. And the message is simple, if you go agains the natural law that this world was created with... you are not only hurting yourself, but everyone around you. Sometimes by example is the only way to explain ignorant what is what and what the consequences are. And if you think that by going against the natural law you don't damage anything, then look around you. Just look. It's a mess. If all of us follow the basic precepts of Biblical law... there would be no need for hirerarchies, government, priests, rabbies, soldiers, police, imaginary borders, idiotic legislations, social services... It was not the original design. We would be trully free to explore the creation and enjoy life trully without anybody elses intrusion. Sin nature is not something genetic that changes our bodies like many would like you to believe... it is simply a collective disobedience to the natural law and ego trip in our minds. From birth we are taught that we know how to run things better than the one created the whole thing to begin with. So the Christianity (in true form) is a purcuit to get your mind back to its original design. It is a mind transforming experience that starts with you... not your priest/pastor/polititian... and it ends with God and you knowing better what this world is all about.

So, getting back to the question of who Jesus is/was and why did he do what he supposidly did, and why I think he came to die. The bible is metaphoricaly prophetic book. Much of the real events point to the future and the past events serve as metaphors. Jesus birth was prophesied thousand and some years before his birth. The meticulous details of his life were also predicted by author who was disconnected from Jesus times by centuries and cruel death by his own people. In fact 90% of the people who wrote the bible were murdered, or suffered greatly because of their beliefs bound to life of poverty, hardship and rejection. If you think that the people who really claim to follow Jesus today really follow their teachings, then think twice. There are very few who trully do in this age. You are absolutly right... the name is used to controll the masses and commit the greatest atrocities on this planet, but ... guns don't kill people.... people kill people. So it is with an idea or a belief.

So if, Jesus really did exist ... he was either a liar, a lunatic, or he was who he said he was - a part of God (if you can understand this better) that came down to demonstrate the people how to live a trully free life. He really examplifies to me what love is. Not by dying... people put too much emphasis on his death, but by living a life that is trully inspiring. The pursuit of truth, apposition of evil, care for every one with no exception or prejusdice. And not even hating anyone when being brutally killed, all for helping people. This is what true Christianity is all about, and this is the ONLY way we can live together without self-destructing. I think that all one of Jesus' followers - Paul said it the best when he said " I beseech you bretheren in view of God to present your bodies as a LIVING SACRIFICE ... this is your spiritual act of worship". Christianity is NOT about jumping up and down in churches "praising" God. It's about changing your mind and living life accordingly, understanding that it is the only way to live normal life and have true freedom.

Constantine perverted what it was for his benefit, and eventually Rome took control, substituting the Semiramis and Tammuz (Horus Isis) for Jesus. Most of you know that notion of Mary worship is nowhere in the Bible. Papacy then proceeded to perverting the truth and murdering millions of people for MAKING A CHOICE TO BELIEVE BIBLE! How ironic! So now we have modern Christianity that believes that they are Christians because they walked down the isle when pastor called and then come to church once in a while and try to read the Bible which they worship. I don't blame you for believing that Jesus is not real bases on these :). I was the same way. But think about it. Christianity is not an immotional thing that you experience. It is 100% intellectual deduction. You can't feel it... you know it. So think, and I hope you come to the same conclusions I did. And no, I don't believe that you will be burning in Hell forever for choosing otherwise :) Nevertheless, I think I've ranted enough. Any comments/ and questions I would love...

[phoenix1]

Well so and so said is his so and so book

Read Bushbys Bibliography and also the Texts he quotes... that are still in the public domain.

The Jesus in the bible is fabricated rubbish. Rabbi Jesus though.. WAS an innitiate of the High Egyptian Mysteries...

I aint getting into conflict here ...I know whats what.

Phoenix:)

[tinmenace]

Welcome to the forum, fccool.

Interesting post.

[i am all i am]

90% of what you believe is by faith. If you have not experienced it first hand ... you believe by faith (pure definition of the word's meaning)....

G'day Fccool.

Welcome to the forum. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_216.gif


With what you have said above, are you saying that 90% of what I belive I have not experienced ???

If so, how is it that you are able to come to this conclusion ???



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[fccool]

Phoenix,

Hahaha, you prove my pont :). I can't argue with statement's like : "read that and you will see". It's pointless. You are not even makin a logical point. You are just using a statement and assume it to be right because some other dude said it in his book ignoring many things such as prophetic writings of the Old Testament. I can give you several points which may or may not give you something to think about.

1) Christianity is the only religion where 100s of millions died throughout the history just because they taught and upheld the principles taught by Jesus openly. Among these were some of the most intelligent people on this planet. Just stood there in the middle of the arena devovered by tigers with people cheering. Why? What didn't they like about Jesus' messages... "Love you neighbor as yourself" , "Don't kill" , "Don't steal"? What is so horrible about these principles that is worth death sentence.

Lives of the apostles were changed and we do have external documented evidence of who these were and how these died. The original message that they spread empowered people and the rulers were scared to death that people would start thinking and acting. Nowwedays no government is really threatened by Christianity because the message was so watered down that it's just sitting in the church and clapping your hands agreeing to everying that was said.

2) I am going to repeat myself. There is no documented evidence of life of Jesus outside of the Bible. Even in the Bible we only know about last three years of his life. Everything else was ommited. Now, I did not know that they gave out name badges in those Mystery Schools. Maybe perhaps an attendance lists? Eh? You see , I can make any assumption about not very well documented person's life and it could be anything I want. I can write pages and pages, but mine will not hold water to the documented evidence. And whether you like it or not... we do find the first copy of the book of Mark less than a century after Jesus' death and we know that it most likely was not the original. So, who do I believe? A guy who writes 2000 years later making an undocumented assumption, or the guy who claims to be the witness of the events and is so changed by what was transpired that he was willing to and died for what he believed? I'm sorry, I would very carefully go with the second and try to learn something, even if I don't believe in the supernatural claims.

2) Many people in these books claim that the texts were so fabricated and mistranslated that we can't possibly trust these now. Well, these were silenced by the Dead Sea scrolls (Pre-Constantine copies) found and examined by the Atheists and sceptics! These agreed that what we have today is mostly accurate except for some translation errors made, which were very minor and had no impact on major Biblical claims.

3) For all of you there looking at the paintings of Jesus in search for truth. There were none that were preserved. Every painting we have today is an artist imagination, and very incorrect one may I add! Jesus was not a very attractive person, and one 1-2 century historian reffers to him as a hunchback. It was one of the reason's, I assume, he was killed in the first place. Jews were waiting ( and still to this day wait) for an earthly messiah to establish a kingdom and destroy all of their enemies (Rome who rulled them), but instead they got a poor hunchback that goes around healing people, correcting their beliefs, and wanting nothing to do with politics. I think I'd be pissed too.

4) Book of Daniel chapter 7 is probably the most amazing prophetic book found on this planet. The prophesies are predicted with pretty good accuracy as far as the historical events transpired. Just take a read:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=34&chapter=7&version=15

5) Frankly, what any of you believe is none of my business. We all do have a choince, and that's the beauty of it all. I've leaned to appreciate it. All I have control of is what I believe. Now, when presented with an argument I should be able to at least explain what I believe and logically deduce whether what I believe is a possibility and present a logical argument. I would expect of you nothing less. It's all mental. All within our minds. It will not happen anywhere else. So argue logically, and obstain from sending me to get some book who knows where, claims of which I can not verify because these are undocumented assumptions. An then use the name of the book as the whole base for your argument and nothing less. What different are you from the Christians who send people to their priest/pastor/rabbi when confronted with a question? Peace...

PS. The problom with the world is not all the hate and violence. These are results. The problem is misplaced love.

[i am all i am]

PS. The problom with the world is not all the hate and violence. These are results. The problem is misplaced love.

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1425/aenahasifpp1.gif http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4272/aerolleyesnj4.gif http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1425/aenahasifpp1.gif


http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/342/a1iloveyoumt0.gif



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[bigus_dickus]

PS. The problom with the world is not all the hate and violence. These are results. The problem is misplaced love.

that's a great quote, i just heard an Alan Watts speech about love last night and he said the same thing.

the "problem" with us, is that we are constantly looking for love.. in all the wrong places. like looking for our glasses while we have been wearing them since birth.

[fccool]

With what you have said above, are you saying that 90% of what I belive I have not experienced ???

If so, how is it that you are able to come to this conclusion ???


You have to understand that I am generalizing and approximating in this statement. All I expect you to take out from the statement is principle. For example. You believe that black is black and white is white by faith. These are just words that describe physical apearance. You could say " That's bullshit! Black is white and white is black, and that's what I'm calling it from now!" and do it your way but you don't :). It takes faith to believe what you can not see, and alot of times what you can see too... that's my whole point. And yes, I can safely assume that the majority of your core beliefs you have not experienced firsthand and receive these as a second, or twenty second hand information. Nothing is original. NOTHING (at this point in time). We all learn something from somewhere, there's a peice of something in everything "new". So examine yourself. How do you know that countries of the world that you have not been to exist? You have not been there and have not seen these... just a small tiny example for you there. I'm russian originally, and the people of the US all ask me how's the Soviet Union going! In some of their minds it still exists :).
Now the other day I was eating chips with guacamole dip, and I asked my fiance - jeez, I wonder where they got that name "guacamole". Her answer was - "Well, duh... from the guac islands where it originated". Well I felt pretty bad, here I was ... the geography buff and I had no clue about the guac islands. I assumed these existed because I trust her. She bursted out laughing saying that there are no guac islands and she just made it up. Now I am not a very gullible person, but I hope you can see my pont :). It's hard to know things firsthand. It's not a bad thing, but it does complicate life and pursuit of the truth. Hope that clarifies my statement.

[i am all i am]

All I expect you to take out from the statement is principle. For example. You believe that black is black and white is white by faith.

G'day Fccool.

Having expectations of another is a form of control.

PRINCIPLE n. moral rule guiding behaviour.

Why would you "expect" anyone to follow your moral rule that guides your behaviour ???

How do you know what it is that I believe ???

Not knowing what it is that I believe, your example citing "faith" is an assumption.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[i am all i am]

It takes faith to believe what you can not see, and alot of times what you can see too... that's my whole point.

What you believe you will see !!!



BELIEF IS ALL


ALL THOUGHTS, WORDS AND ACTIONS LEAD FROM YOUR BELIEF.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

IF YOUR BELIEF IS OPPOSED TO ANYTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND UNABLE TO SEE THAT WHICH YOU ARE OPPOSED TO.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

YOUR BELIEF ALLOWS YOU TO UNDERSTAND AND SEE THAT WHICH YOU BELIEVE IN HERE AND NOW WITHIN THE PHYSICAL.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

THEREFORE, BELIEVING WILL ALLOW YOU TO SEE, AND THAT WHICH YOU SEE IS A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT IT IS THAT YOU BELIEVE.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

TO MASTER YOURSELF, OR EXPERIENCE SELF-MASTERY, YOU WILL REQUIRE A BELIEF THAT ENCOMPASSES ALL THAT IS.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

THE BELIEF THAT ALLOWS YOU TO ENCOMPASS ALL THAT IS AND THEREFORE UNDERSTAND AND SEE ALL THAT IS, IS THE BELIEF THAT ALL IS POSSIBLE.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

AS ALL THAT IS IS ALREADY HERE WITHIN ITS ENTIRETY, IT BECOMES YOUR CHOICE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THAT IS AND ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL ASPECT OF ALL THAT IS.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

TO ACKNOWLEDGE IS TO RECOGNISE, OR RE-COGNISE, THAT IS, ONCE AGAIN EXPERIENCE KNOWING.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL ASPECT OF ALL THAT IS, IS TO ACCEPT YOUR TRUE SELF, THE INFINITE BEING THAT YOU TRULY ARE.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

WHAT YOU ARE BEING, YOU EXPERIENCE, AND IT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF BEING YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE HERE FOR.

http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/silverhawk.gif

THEREFORE, WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO BE WILL DETERMINE YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND ONLY THROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCE CAN YOU EXPRESS SELF-MASTERY WITHIN THE PHYSICAL.



With LOVE.

[i am all i am]

And yes, I can safely assume that the majority of your core beliefs you have not experienced firsthand and receive these as a second, or twenty second hand information.

Your assumptions are merely that, assumptions.

You have assumed what my core beliefs are, because you do not KNOW !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[synergy777]

come on how many peeps after getting into this stuff, start thinking am i neo, am i the one, am i here to save, unite etc. has all my life been geared towards this, they start turning random incidents/coincidences etc into a convienent case for saviourship.

if you desire something, you will ultimately have a warped/biased view, and will purposely put things together to support your desire/aim, hence accuracy is compromised. its like biased researchers/writers, or selective editing to support an agenda.

its dangerous all this just be-lie-ve, the have blind faith in an an entity that does not have human features eg emotions, caring etc. wheres his help for the sufferers, what a few words, prayers, is that it? wheres his compassion for the people, killed daily, genocide, war, murder.

i think we need to have a more objective, accurate approach, as the whole fate, destiny, mystic side of life is too intangible etc.

i mean sometimes if one is intellectually independant, one could view great teachers as paranoid, narcassistic, deluded pariahs. maybe these people were mental, illusions of self grandeur, the voice in their heads, being mental disorders. see we don't really know do we, maybe the elite knew they were charasmatic anti establishment deviants/misfits and thus used them for their agenda. no offence who told these teachers they special, they did. no tests, no evaualtion, checking the accuracy of their teachings. see the only real way is logical, scientific way, and even that is plagued by human faults/perception/intellectual ability. if yashuah returned today, he would be locked up in a mental asylum.

see the conspiracy movement is flawed, very flawed. the elite know it, and hence are not threatend by it. we have such a mish mash of inaccurate data, supported by inaccurate researchers. i mean look at this astral travelling/lucid dreaming crap. its merely a mental function, and people label it as soul work. i have dreams of weird places, bullshit saying i am the one, etc. its all narcasstic, arrogant mental projection.

i could believe it, my ego wants to believe it, but thankfully the logical side prevails and see's it for what it really is, a biological/chemical/mental function. that is derived from thoughts, data, etc all filtering/swishing around my head. its not divine, spiritual but simply a mental function. a biological, chemical brainstorm/roleplay, thats it.

[synergy777]

see all teachers said the same stuff, which to be honest is logical. after reading about all religions, etc, the same core message appears. so were they plagarists, charlatans, etc.

[fccool]

" Your assumptions are merely that, assumptions.

You have assumed what my core beliefs are, because you do not KNOW !!! "

I never claimed to know what you believe. ALL KNOWLEDGE IS AN ASSUMPTION one way or another. You may be assuming that I am somebody that you don't know, but I am in fact might be you mother! So go to your room, son ! Hahahah. So let's not let get into "you said that in sentence # 57 " arguments and look at the subject as a whole. Don't nitpick... And I do totally agree. If in fact Jesus was Christ, he still was reguarded as a loonatic. He is a lunatic and a fiction to most of you, so what does it matter? If both of us made up our mind, then why the discussion. If it is the truth that we seek then we can learn from any view that is presented and either agree or disagree based on the knowledge we have.

[fccool]

see the conspiracy movement is flawed, very flawed. the elite know it, and hence are not threatend by it. we have such a mish mash of inaccurate data, supported by inaccurate researchers. i mean look at this astral travelling/lucid dreaming crap. its merely a mental function, and people label it as soul work. i have dreams of weird places, bullshit saying i am the one, etc. its all narcasstic, arrogant mental projection.



I more than agree. See my post on this subject.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4518

[phoenix1]

More Assumption

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Assumption/id/68179

Dogma = Mind Control

[phoenix1]

Yeah sorry ... welcome to the forum... With regard to religion I believe in just the scource.. and the ALL.

So much has been contrived with The Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople and Ephesus blah blah ....even the Church Itself admits as much. Ask Bishop Eusebius...

Ive lost count of how many Bibles there are now... what does that say to you ??

To me it says it gets edited and re-edited...untill you get something that's nice and easy to swallow...for the "Ignorant Masses" (from where we get the term Mass)

However the "masses" are not as ignorant today as they were back then. Today more than 1 in 10,000 people can read for themselves...and discern for themselves.

I dont need a mediator to take me direct to the scource central.

With Respect..you have religion ...I have freedom from it.
(I do respect your oppinion on this matter.. though it differs wildly from mine.)

Im in different patterns these days and moving in arcs...not on straight lines, or crooked ones either.

Indoctrination...The Crime of the Ages (foor me anyway)

Respectfully ..

Phoenix

[juliekc]

I do believe that Jesus was a real person. I believe him to be someone who was good and people started to admire him. No different to admiring Mother Theresa. The only difference was the admiration for Jesus soon changed into jealousy.

I do not believe him to be the son of 'God' or that he or we were created from God.

JulieKC

[synergy777]

yashuah ben yosef was the person they based the mithras/sol invictus clone on. he talked about spiritual truths that went against corrupt clergy. hence they hated him and conspired to kill him.

he said everyone was equal, the soul/creator was within us all (the kingdom of heaven is within, the soul is the kingdom). to speak directly to the creator, no need for ritual, intermeditaries egs priests. he said all of us had the same potential, to love one another etc. he said all of us are the children of the creator, black, white, jew, christian, muslim, hindu, sikh. rich, poor, man, woman, all equal.

krishna, buddha said the same thing.

see the authorities that killed him, later joined together to spread his message, so they cannot be trusted. then the numerous edits, contradictory gospels, council of nicea 325, saturnalia, ishtar/eastre/easter, jeremiah speaks of pagan tree/christmas trees in the bible. cesare borgia. the earlier depictions all show yashuah as a hebrew, hence african/asian, look at the first madonnas, all black, look at the vaticans coat of arms, brown yashuah, look at palestine today, these are his people being killed. the new version is based on cesare borgia, they commissioned it in the renaissance (rebirth), the rebranding.

one love, peace.

[francisx1935]

I've read "The Crucifixion of Truth" - in that book, the author makes mention of a "Bishop Jeremy Taylor" and says he died c. 1825 and had made comments about cleaning up forged church records - I found a Bishop Jeremy Taylor on the Internet who lived 200 years prior but doesn't seem to have any connection to what Bushby referred to - can anyone clarify this for me?

[i am all i am]

I've read "The Crucifixion of Truth" - in that book, the author makes mention of a "Bishop Jeremy Taylor" and says he died c. 1825 and had made comments about cleaning up forged church records - I found a Bishop Jeremy Taylor on the Internet who lived 200 years prior but doesn't seem to have any connection to what Bushby referred to - can anyone clarify this for me?

G'day Francisx1935.

Check if there is a note for a reference in the bibliography.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[god is love]

George W. Bush is Satan . George H.W. Bush is the Devil. The Pope is the Antichrist. Jesuit Genral Kovenbach is Beelzebub. Dick Cheney is the Ruler of darkness, Oblivion. Donald Rumsfeld is the Desolator. China is the Great red dragon.Gonzales is The Angel of the bottomless pit.Blair is Son of perdition. Rothschild is The Ruler of darkness. Rockefeller is The Power of darkness.Israel is Abbaddon. Iraq/Iran is Babylon. They are all the Power of death. The US Congress is a fallen pit. The US military is now a Satanic dark brutalizing dominator.

Therefore it is clear that the Messiah is here. The Evil Cabal wouldn't risk all they have stolen and act with Brazen recklessness unless they were certain it is the time of the The Albert Pike scripted insanity.

[fantabulous]

George W. Bush clearly was into the dark stuff !

JESUS CHRIST turns 50 years old. Apparently his birthday was June 17th.
The first time it was June 17th 2BC. The second time it was June 17th 1957.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

But who cares !

[edit]

http://www.unity-works.org/images/wip2coloryellowrose.gifGeorge W. Bush clearly was into the dark stuff !

JESUS CHRIST turns 50 years old. Apparently his birthday was June 17th.
The first time it was June 17th 2BC. The second time it was June 17th 1957.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

But who cares !


Sava?


http://www.hillsidefree.com/images/davincicode-.jpg




17 Jun. 2 BC: The Magi (oriental scientists) from the east, anticipating a unique conjunction of Jupiter and Venus35 (one so close that the two planets appear to collide because their positions could not be resolved or separated by the unaided eye), coordinate their visit and presentation of gifts to Jesus because they want to make a lasting impression on an "avatar". The "stars" may have indeed led them to Jesus, because the Magi identified Jesus by using the Tzu Wei Chinese astrology. Polaris (not then at the pole) is the Tzu Wei or king star which gives this Chinese astrology its name.

Tzu Wei or king star - Star+of+Bethlehem+June+17th+2BC (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:0imwWYWDL84J:www.barry.warmkessel.c om/barry/1997Paper.html+aligned+with+the+Star+of+Bethlehem+ June+17th+2BC+when+Venus+eclipsed+Jupiter&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=nl)

http://flickr.com/photos/auralanodyne/

God created the word, ...

and... http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/ejournal/aejt_2/images/creation-of-adam.jpg

then... 17 June 1957 ?

Bar-dot http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/12/169112.jpg

17 June 1957 ?

UK general release:
17 June 1957

A Hammer Film Production. Released in England by United Artists, on a double-bill with And God Created Woman.
Also distributed in the United States by United Artistst

The producers wish to acknowledge with thanks the facilities extended to them by Shell Refining and Marketing Company for the shooting of many scenes at Shell Haven Refinery, Essex.
hammerfilms.com/vaults (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:PU7a0VqUo08J:www.hammerfilms.com/vaults/science_fiction/1956_quatermassII.html+17+june+1957+conjunction&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=nl)
http://www.cherryred.co.uk/el/artists/brigittebardot.htm
http://www.opendemocracy.net/content/articles/2109/images/AndGodCreatedWoman.jpg

And God Created Woman.
http://www.1dvd.co.uk/movie/292.html


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God created the ...
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http://www.prieteni.ro/tentatii/articole/articol-Top_10___Sex_simboluri_clasice-0-359.html

When God created the world, ...
http://www.opendemocracy.net/arts-shorelines/article_2109.jsp

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The Bible tells us that God created .... http://www.monasteryicons.com/products/regular/444.jpg

http://www.sanonofre.com/blog/2006_01_22_archive.html

June 17th 1957 ?

Asyaa,.....
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ultimite exoctia...

'and God created woman..."

[god is love]

The Story of the Bible is Astrology , allegory, a little history & alot of social engineering. The bulk of it when read with an open mind is utter nonsense.
I read the old testament.It took about 4 years. It is full Hypocrisy , Infanticide , Genocide, Murder ,Theft , Adultery , Idol Worship,Greed ,Lies , Fallacy, Invasion ,War, Ethnic Cleansing, Racism , Slavery , Despotism, Tyranny, Dictatorship, Rebellion, Deceit, Egomania, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Schizophrenia , Mania, Apathy, Denial ,Temptation, Propaganda, Sadism , Torture, Kidnap, Absurdity, Double Talk ,Historically inaccurate, Hype ridden and full of Mentally Ill really asinine control freaks intent on Dominating you & all you love. Which is a bit perverted.

For example.

Judas Iscariot " Jewish Knife man " Betrayer
Peter "stone, rock" "stone, rock"
John " Jehovah has favoured " "Son of Thunder"
Paul "small" Liar never met Jesus
Saul " asked for " Liar a murderer of Jews
Andrew " manly " A fisher of men
Lazarus " God has helped." Raised from the dead .Is he God?
James " one that takes by the heel "
Bartholomew " Son of abounding in furrows."
Nathanael " God has given "
Philip " beloved, loving & fond of horses "
Mathew " gift of Jehovah "
Thomas " a twin "
Simon Zealot " hearkening, hearing, fighter/assassin "
Jesus Barabbas "Jah is salvation Son of the father " The Thief Bandit
Jesus Christ "Jah is salvation the anointed" The King of the Jews
Yehoshua Bar Yusef "the Lord is salvation son of Jacob"
Messiah "anointed"

Now would you or Jesus Christ son of the Father really hang out with The Rock, Thunder , Knife-man & Betrayer ? Sounds like WWF .
And why would Pontius "sea" Pilate " armed with javelins " sentence Jesus Son of the Father (Sounds like a nice godly name ) & Jesus King of the Jews to Crucifixion?

Well Blasphemy under Judaic law is punishable by Stoning to death.So Jesus King of the Jews would be stoned to death not Crucified as he was charged with blasphemy under Judaic law by the Sanhedrin . Crucifixion is the Roman punishment for insurrection & claiming to be higher than Caesar. But wait if Bar Abbas was leader of the insurrection against Rome isn't it more likely he would be called "King of the Jews" a freedom fighter, a patriot ?

And Son of the Father? Well that sounds more like a religious man to me. I think theres been a muddle. How do we know which one was which.?
A crowd of locals in your town would call for the release of the local Rabbi . Teacher , Priest or Preacher. A religious man known by all locally.They wouldn't call for the release of an Insurgent who had killed Romans and claimed to be higher than Caesar or Herod. Such a call would be treason.And the whole town would be killed. Logic really.

Who was The King of the Jews with? The Knife-man , The Rock , The Assassin, The Fisher net man & Man of Thunder. Now they sound like a gang of insurgents not godly men. Think about it.

James " one that takes by the heel " Runs up to the Romans calls them scum. John Thunder shouts loudly from the top of the hill to distract the Romans .Peter the Rock throws the rocks and Andrew throws the nets that trap the men. Simon the assassin & Judas the knife-man to do the rest. Just behind the hill your mate Philip "fond of horses" is holding on to the getaways . The king of the Jews is the leader and strategist watching high above. The Highest of the High.

Would you follow these guys? No I don't think so.

This is just a thought.

12 disciples or 12 apostles ? Jesus sent 70 or 72 other disciples.

I read the Buddhist texts which took about a month.The the Koran which took about a month. Finally I read the Upanishads, Baghavad Gita & Vedas, took about 8 weeks. I have since read 300 books on Anthropology, History ,Shamanism , Esoterica & of course Mr. Icke.

Buddhists = Interesting & peaceful but a Little Nihilistic. Intellectually challenging not for less able in intellect.

Hinduism = Fascinating, a little high brow and sometimes mysterious. Also tends to lead to acceptance of all things as the result of Karma. Thus the Reason Bush is rich and Powerful is because he was good in a previous life and has thus been rewarded. Thus this life is a test of our Karma & his Karma as a test.

Shamanism = Fascinating , Scary , Challenging and very trippy .Often requires ingestion of Vision Plants & various Mushrooms. Leads to an outsider type persona.

Christianity = merging of Judaic nonsense , Mithra-ism, Sol Invicta, Zeus or Chi Zeus but mainly Astrology.

Suffice to say Mr. Icke is the mind cleaner , Graham Hancocks a good read as well. What I am trying to say is knowledge is power ,know your enemy. Read all perspectives then make your mind up. I have Masonic books along the line of "Holy blood Holy Grail" "Hiram Key" I found them fascinating until the very last appendix. Then I realized it was bollox. Why? Well simple really the whole premice of these books is to pre condition you to believe that Jesus had children with Mary and didnt die on the cross. The Children went to France & England and stayed at Glastonbury. Jesus had bloodlines that became Royalty,Templars & Secret Societies , now known as the Illuminati. They now rule the world. Thats great they are the holy bloodline and thus have the right to rule right? Um no not really. If Jesus didn't die on the cross and didnt rise from the dead then he is just a bloke. And his alleged boodline is absolutely irrelevant. As are the supposed decendants of David. If Jesus wasnt Christ which is what these books try to prove , then the Messianic Kingly line of David is totally irrelavent.Thus the Illuminati have no right to rule and nor do any others of Regal blood.

Silly really.

The Bible when read as an astrological guide to the ages i.e. Age of Taurus ,Age of Aries,Age of Pices,Age of Aquarius.This makes much more sense.

Those that know not their History are destined to repeat it.

[gods sun]

jesus is not real but a made up person to hide what the bible is really saying, i do belive that the bible is a book on space and zodiac. if the bible showed clearly that is was all about galaxies stars and universe know one would belive the crazy stuff scientists where coming up with, so they create this human image of the sun called jesus. Now the tables turn and think wow hes human and this really happened.

Dan Brown is the closest to telling people and discovering that religon is based on science and yes the illuminati should of been the real religion. the vactican stores a libary full of doctrines and studys on space? maybe the illuminati has created the bible. Like many prophets hid ther notes in rhyme as the bible hides its knowledge of space in stories behind this man called jesus.

but i do have a question if jesus didnt exsit and is known as the gods sun in the zodiac then who is mary the one catholics preach the most? and why mary and not jesus?

finish off scientists and artist are trying to tell us the truth weather its throught sulptures, notes or art all of it resembles space, vactican city is full of hidden codes and puzzles maybe as mans knowledge evolves we wil discovery more.

[fccool]

jesus is not real but a made up person to hide what the bible is really saying, i do belive that the bible is a book on space and zodiac. if the bible showed clearly that is was all about galaxies stars and universe know one would belive the crazy stuff scientists where coming up with, so they create this human image of the sun called jesus. Now the tables turn and think wow hes human and this really happened.

Dan Brown is the closest to telling people and discovering that religon is based on science and yes the illuminati should of been the real religion. the vactican stores a libary full of doctrines and studys on space? maybe the illuminati has created the bible. Like many prophets hid ther notes in rhyme as the bible hides its knowledge of space in stories behind this man called jesus.

but i do have a question if jesus didnt exsit and is known as the gods sun in the zodiac then who is mary the one catholics preach the most? and why mary and not jesus?

finish off scientists and artist are trying to tell us the truth weather its throught sulptures, notes or art all of it resembles space, vactican city is full of hidden codes and puzzles maybe as mans knowledge evolves we wil discovery more.

Dude... have you ever even read the Bible :)? You are making hearsay assupmtions based on what? Read it from cover to cover, and see for yourself what it is. It condems astrology and equates it with witchcraft. Dan Brown is a fiction writer who got the idea from somebody else and decided to go with it. Controversy = popularity = much cash. Saying that Dan Brown is exposing anything is like saying that Wresling is for real :). I can garantee you that most of the Church goers have no clue as to what the Bible actually saying. It is extremely clear on what it is saying. But, like with everything... it takes time to sit down, read and try to understand. But people would rather be told by somebody else and skip the hard pard. that's the problem. The moment any cleric begins to be the understanding authority... we have religious control.

As far as Vatican City being the predominant religion of today... just read Daniel and revelation and a couple of history books and understand what is going on here. Bible writers clearly oppose Vatican. Vatican doctrine would still stand strong even if Jesus proved to be a hoax... their claim is that Pope is the Jesus on earth... and you go to him for approval and interpretation. If Pope tomorrow declares that Jesus is a hoax it would perturbe Catholicism, but it would not destroy it. They have no interest in people believing in Jesus.

[breezei]

well since there are many stories of the jesus christ story throughout the world, that maybe this is a level of consciousness? so then would that mean that all those gods that are spoken about are the powers of the levels of consciousness that we have. so maybe if we explore our minds we can then reach a consciousness that lets us create whatever we are invisioning. so then does that mean since the bible is written with symbolic words like jesus or god or other high regarded names and written literally, is everything we are shown like that? david has shown that alot of symbols on tv are like this they have the literally meaning, abc, american broadcast company, but then what they show on the tv as their symbol they have the notorious all seeing eye. so yes i believe that everything we are shown is symbolic but taught to us literal. this is what makes life a test. so know since theres this knowledge here we dont have to give a fuck about the literal shit that has no purpose other then being there to cover up to symbolism. now symbolism like david says is not negative itself only put in opposite terms. so we can learn this symbolism that is shown to us but hidden and use it from its origin form, so the opposite would be positive, and this is also sacred geometry. which is used to manifest energy into matter, ahh the power we truly have. listen to any underground hip hop like jedi mind tricks and immortal technigue outerspace esoteric 7L they all know this. times are truly changing.

[graflok]

Speaking of Jesus, here he is now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KiAvmzcZbg

[fantabulous]

The question to me is not only " Jesus: Fiction or Real Person ?? ", but more like " Is the Jesus Christ presently being worshipped actually the Anti-Christ, and is the God being worshipped actually the Satan ? ".

Imagine the beginning. Let's say that at the beginning there is an equal balance between ( + ) and ( - ).

On the ( + ) side, the truth exists. This is God's side.
On the ( - ) side, deceit and lies exist. This is Satan's side.

Now on the negative side one can be very very creative since pure truth is not required. Just like Hollywood could create fiction movies after fiction movies endlessly since no truths are required, so could the negative side be just as creative.

On the positive side however, nothing exists except truths, and so there is no allowance for cheating in ones method of creativity.

Unfortunately, the negative side grows at a tremendous rate due to not having to be limited to truths. Eventually it becomes massive in size in comparison to the mere petite positive side. The positive side becomes limited to being just a thin slice of the complete ( + / - ) reality. In fact it is limited to being within a slice of time known as the present time. This thin slice is forced to move across time to allow change to occur. The change that does occur, occurs step by step, without stepping over anything since these gaps would create fiction rather than truths. In the eyes of man, this step by step growth is called evolution, a slow process indeed. This would be God's creation.

But later, at a time prior to man having reached a level of intellect that can see truths suffice enough not to be deceived, the negative side would step into the overpowered positive reality, God's reality, and present itself as a God, a Christ. With its boundless power it would intend to split the positive reality into two, and make these two into everything it wants.

It could make one of the split offshoots grow to be a Heavenly Paradise. The other offshoot would grow to be a Hell. This would be done by transferring all the good from one to the other, and all the bad away from the now good side over to the hell side. With truth having been split/buried, and none of the complete truths yet being known of by mankind, there would be no truths to pull these two new realities back together as one. They would therefore fly apart forever. The Paradise would forever become better and better, while the hell would forever become worse and worse.

The closer to truths a persons mind would be, the more pure that mind would be. But we would need to bury the truths such that the two realties can continue to fly apart, thus those who are truthful must be thrown into the hell side, and the remainder must all be deceived such that they think that the completely innocent are the completely guilty. This then makes the burial of truths complete.

To start this off, they would have to deceive mankind such that mankind would be willing to allow the division of mankind. Perhaps the introduction of something that would reinforce using the mental function known as belief would help. Belief, if stuck to, prevents one from progressing toward truths. Yes, introduce some beliefs and call it religion.

Once belief is set to being seen as a very important function, tell mankind that it was Adam and Eve that came first rather than the system of truth ( the intelligently designed evolution ), that was responsible for the existence of man. Then tell the believers that Adam and Eve led to mankind being born as sinners. This will then convince many that it is OK to be a sinner, and convince them of this suffice enough such that they will not to go to all necessary measures to not sin at all, which is bloody easy, but to instead make the efforts required to be a sinner. Also, these people, thanks to being limited to being believers rather than truth seekers, will be soooo shallow minded that they will BELIEVE that all mankind are sinners, thus all of the non-sinners are not believed at all when they say that they are non-sinners. This then makes it easy for the sinners to accept the fact that the non-sinners will be thrown into the hell in the long run, for their foolishness will have led them into seeing the innocent as the guilty.

Now it would have been the intension of the true Christ figure to come to the earth at the time when mankind had evolved to the point of being able to see truths, and thus the true Christ would be able to speak truth to such people. That, of course, is why the Anti-Christ must show up first at a time prior to man being able to have surpassed beliefs.

So the Anti-Christ would successfully deceive the whole world. Since this is set and is spreading rapidly, he would tell them that the entire world would be deceived, and the dumb mankind would look forward, waiting for the day to come when all mankind will be deceived, even though it has already happened !

The Anti-Christ, knowing that the true Christ was to appear later on, would say that and Anti-Christ was to appear in the future. The true Christ would be crucified because unlike the Anti-Christ, he could not prove who he was by performing Miracles, because Miracles are a form of deceit rather than truth, and this is because the complete mechanics behind such an act are not being revealed, and this is why the act seems Miraculous in the first place, rather than a simple exposure to a truth. The true Christ cries as he realizes that the people of earth will only believe the words of those who deceive them, and that they spit upon those who speak in truths.

The Anti-Christ will therefore have performed his own theatrical crucification, such that the crucification of the real Christ in the future will not be seen as being a real crucification of the real Christ at all. This occurs since in the primitive minds of the believers, if something religious is said to have happened once already, then any claim of it happening again, is a case of blasphemy as far as they are concerned. Thus the true case of Christ's crucification is completely ignored, or laughed at. The mind of the true Christ will be destroyed, for he is the truth, and it is the goal of the Satan character to destroy the truth.

The Anti-Christ, in his theatrical crucification, will only set up a symbolic representation of the crucification of his mind. This will be represented by a crown of thorns.

Now that the Satan character has convinced mankind of the complete opposite of the truth, any presentation of truths from that point onward, are immediately spat upon by all believers.

[singularities]

what difference would it make?

Being that he is the most famous relgious Icon in the history of the world and being that I am a spiritual and curious person, I would like to know the true story.

You being on this board is going to make what difference?

Everything we learn on here is for personal enlightenment
The question you asked was a very silly one.

It would be 'nice' to know the truth - isn't that the point of these boards?
But then I know the difference between fact and lies and the more people know about symbolism and its MASSIVE significance, relevance and pertinence today more than ever, the more they will be able to work out EXACTLY who the New Messiah or the Resurrection or The Phoenix is. Bearing in mind, of course, that the Bible itself is a pure fabrication based on the signs of the Zodiac and astrology. So knowing that the New Messiah is camouflaged in symbolism, numbers and freemasonry and is a product of The Greatest Story Ever Told - a fiction invented by the Zionist-Illluminati cabal that rule the world ............ how does that make you feel?
Anyone ever wondered what the 'signet' ring worn by the Illuminati means, i.e. the Ourobourus, or the snake eating its tail? Just this. That they created the chaos so that they can now provide the heroes and Superman-cum-Batman-cum Robin Hood dressed up as Christ to save the world : only in your dreams though - cos he's a fictional character. But hey look on the bright side - the fictional New Saviour can save your dream or - dare I say it - IMAGINARY self. Just so long as you don't want any help in conscious life.

Bad luck world. Just when we thought there was a window ..........
What's more, when you give all this information to Conspiracy Writers like David Icke, Alex Jones et al, why don't they make it public?? Whose side are they really on I wonder.

[slave]

50%fiction 50%real.

[slave]

I read the story of catholic church and quite a few number of pope don't belived in jesus!