What's with these legal highs?

[sharpiesix]

I've just returned from a festival in the middle of england, there was a stall there selling these legal highs. You know alternatives to E and speed etc. Well i was just wondering if anyone has tried any of them, of have any interesting information about them. :confused:

http://www.redeyefrog.co.uk/happy_popper_beanz_300.jpg

[eyepod]

I've never taken them but I know a little about these. Many of the ectasty type ones will contain BZP (Benzylpiperazine) which has had a number of deaths associated with its use and other side effects. As far as I know BZP is still legal to posses in the UK but technically it's against the law to sell without a prescription but I believe vendors are using some loop hole to continue selling. It's illegal in a few euro countries.

Many of these products claim to be "herbal" and protray themselves as being safe alternatives to illegal drugs. In reality the manufacturers are pretty loose with the truth as to what the igredients actually are. Whilst they may contain some herbs that sound like they would do something interesting, in reality the herbs are often just fillers and it will be some legal but unknown or unamed chemicals that are having the effect. For instace they could contain DXM (a dissociative used in cough medicine), ephedrine (a mild stimulant used as a precursor in crystal meth manufacture) or any number of other unknown and untested chemicals.

I wouldn't take them myself, you really have no idea what your ingesting and I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig testing out some unknown chemicals whilst some unscrupulous company is creaming in the profits. I've heard stories from them not doing anything at all, to giving a plesant high, to extremes of paranoia and unpleseant experiences. Use at your own risk.

BTW benzine is a well known carcinogen.

[picha]

I had a pre rolled joint of spice, which is supposed to be a legal weed substitute. Got me pretty wrecked and it does feel very similar but it didnt give me the paranoia that weed gives me and it seemed a bit more hallucinogenic.
Dunno whats in it or if its particularly good for you or not though.

[truthseeker1980]

If they were the normal ones which they sell in most places, they are all made from Ceyenne pepper, apprently funded by the NZ government, which sort of put us off, but we still tried them. I've tried the ecstacy ones and to be honest they are not too bad, no-where near as intense as the real thing. Also the speed ones, they just made us not stop lauging, were nothing like a billy buzz.

They are made with some kind of paper pressed into a pill shape with the pepper as dust inside, i know this as my friend and I thought we would split one, like a normal pill but it wouldn't break so we got a knife and broke it open, only to find pepper dust inside, which i got all over my hands and had pepper smelling hands for about 4 days.:D

[dmt head]

What eyepod said! They arent herbal at all they have loads of chemicals in them, ive not really had much success with any, ive took the herbal acid and xtc and speed, most of the time \i just ended up kind of wired, happened a few times where the buzz was like the horrible end of a speed buzz, if they really were good theyd be more popular I think. Ive tried that spice its pretty cool, should scroogle canadarc ;)

[eyepod]

If they were the normal ones which they sell in most places, they are all made from Ceyenne pepper, apprently funded by the NZ government, which sort of put us off, but we still tried them. I've tried the ecstacy ones and to be honest they are not too bad, no-where near as intense as the real thing. Also the speed ones, they just made us not stop lauging, were nothing like a billy buzz.

They are made with some kind of paper pressed into a pill shape with the pepper as dust inside, i know this as my friend and I thought we would split one, like a normal pill but it wouldn't break so we got a knife and broke it open, only to find pepper dust inside, which i got all over my hands and had pepper smelling hands for about 4 days.:D

If you really think your getting high off Cayenne pepper why don't you just buy yourself a nice sized packet from the supermarket. You will get a whole lot more for a whole lot less money. But I would put money on it that you won't get high! Why? Because the stuff in the pills that is getting you high is not the pepper it's BZP!

I think you misinterpreting the story about the NZ governement. There was a doctor over there who had found that administration of BZP to crystal meth addicts greatly reduced their cravings for the drug - there was a pretty big crystal meth problem over there so the doctor was allowed to continue his research, BZP remained legal and it was allowed to be manufactured and sold. Something like 60% of NZ population have tried BZP. BZP containing pills will often be mixed with various vitamins and supplements because the hang-over is pretty nasty. Much of the BZP in th world is manufactured in NZ and think this must be where your getting this pepper story from.

You don't get high on pepper! Try it and see ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Any advice on these?

http://www.shivaheadshop.co.uk/shop/legal_highs/legal_smokes/index.html

[lookfar]

There was a thread on this a while ago, I'll see if I can find it...

Lottie & I have tried the Spice ones a couple of times but they tend to just mong you out & make you go a bit spacey, other than that, no other effects were noted.

[lookfar]

Here's the link for the other thread about them....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19632

[eyepod]

Any advice on these?

http://www.shivaheadshop.co.uk/shop/legal_highs/legal_smokes/index.html

I can't say anything from experience but what is quite telling is the quote:

"Please note that we can't ship Spice herbal smoke to the USA or Australia"

and

Ingredients:
"Baybean, Blue Lotus, Dwarf Skullcap, Indian Warrior, Lion's Tail, Maconha Brava, Marshmallow, Pink Lotus, Red Clover, Rose, Siberian Motherwort, Vanilla, Honey."

Why would they be illegal in the USA and Australia if that is all they contain?

BZP is illegal in both USA and Australia - draw you own conclusions.

You would be much better off growing your own organic grass than smoke that stuff.

[truthseeker1980]

If you really think your getting high off Cayenne pepper why don't you just buy yourself a nice sized packet from the supermarket. You will get a whole lot more for a whole lot less money. But I would put money on it that you won't get high! Why? Because the stuff in the pills that is getting you high is not the pepper it's BZP!

I think you misinterpreting the story about the NZ governement. There was a doctor over there who had found that administration of BZP to crystal meth addicts greatly reduced their cravings for the drug - there was a pretty big crystal meth problem over there so the doctor was allowed to continue his research, BZP remained legal and it was allowed to be manufactured and sold. Something like 60% of NZ population have tried BZP. BZP containing pills will often be mixed with various vitamins and supplements because the hang-over is pretty nasty. Much of the BZP in th world is manufactured in NZ and think this must be where your getting this pepper story from.

You don't get high on pepper! Try it and see ;)

I wsn't saying there was only pepper in them, I just got told by the shop owner about the NZ government and could see and smell the pepper when we split it open.

Anyway i'd imagine they are far safer than all the illegal pills, as they would be regulated. I've taken ecstacy pills which have clearly had some kind of numbing drug added or anything other than MDMA, as dealers want to bulk up the mix. So your earlier post about would you really want to put something in your body and not know what it is. Thousands of people do every weekend, so there are potentially thousands of people who would buy this stuff, if it actually gave you a proper buzz like MDMA or amphetime sulphite.

[heebeejeebee]

get hold of 'Natural Highs' by Patrick Holford and Dr Hyla Cass

it gives detailed info on dosage, effects and side effects etc

it also gives info on how to use higher dosages of drugs to use them as a connector (spiritually)

it's a great book

[gu3rr1lla]

im not really a smoker, can get high off two pulls of a joint (of weed), i tried spice once a while ago and it was amazing. I had the best night sleep ever :D

[cleft_asunder]

I've never taken them but I know a little about these. Many of the ectasty type ones will contain BZP (Benzylpiperazine) which has had a number of deaths associated with its use and other side effects. As far as I know BZP is still legal to posses in the UK but technically it's against the law to sell without a prescription but I believe vendors are using some loop hole to continue selling. It's illegal in a few euro countries.

Many of these products claim to be "herbal" and protray themselves as being safe alternatives to illegal drugs. In reality the manufacturers are pretty loose with the truth as to what the igredients actually are. Whilst they may contain some herbs that sound like they would do something interesting, in reality the herbs are often just fillers and it will be some legal but unknown or unamed chemicals that are having the effect. For instace they could contain DXM (a dissociative used in cough medicine), ephedrine (a mild stimulant used as a precursor in crystal meth manufacture) or any number of other unknown and untested chemicals.

I wouldn't take them myself, you really have no idea what your ingesting and I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig testing out some unknown chemicals whilst some unscrupulous company is creaming in the profits. I've heard stories from them not doing anything at all, to giving a plesant high, to extremes of paranoia and unpleseant experiences. Use at your own risk.

BTW benzine is a well known carcinogen.

Great information! Have you ever tried Kava Kava? I bought some high quality stuff because I was curious, but I haven't tried it yet.

[drael]

I can see theres a little confusion here.

In the UK, dance pills will likely either be bzp or some md analogue (theres about three different md analogues used).
there also geranium, which is pretty mild by all comparisons, and prolly not common in the UK, because of bzp and the md analogues. "Hummas" is geranium based, and from NZ.

Check for ingredients or get reports, because some of the stuff they sell is the more old school caffiene etc and does nothing....(for example most of the happy caps range is bunk)

BZP is roughly like speed. A little more chatty/less serious and sometimes a bit paranoid - depending on how used to them you are. It is a strong CNS stimulant, roughly equivalant to ampetamine in strength. I find them not amazing, but really really good for dancing energy. They have since been banned in NZ. ("escape" by funk pills is a bit different, its got pfpp and meopp as well, making it sorta relaxing and stimulating. More recreational, but less energy and harder comedown.). The comedowns on bzp are pretty yuck. (Theres also tfpp added to some pills, while basically just gives you tracer effects).

On the page u showed that pic from - the herbal high company has some bzp ones. And the one you showed is bzp.

The md analogues i havent tried much. Theres one i have, which is called "meow" in slang. Thats basically like a 2 hour orgasm. Very nice, and quite addictive. The other two are more like bzp, but from the descriptions possibly a bit better and more e like.

LU Doves are md something, as an example. These come quite recommended but a very strong/long lasting stimulants.

Spice, zohai, and all the smokables are herbs (many/various) and herb extracts (thats where the real punch comes from). They vary a fair bit nowadays. Spice diamond is pretty nice, though expensive. My favourite is aroma, but thats NZ only so far. Zohai i found hard on the body. They are "pot-like" but not the same buzz, and generally not as strong.

The ingredients in most of these blends, like spice, are time tested by ancient cultures (blue lotus etc). However the modern versions are stronger, so would advise moderation. Zohai and chillin xxx by comparison have weird effects on the body, and unlisted chinese supplied ingredients. Moderate use of spice and similar blends is prolly safe (it has been around for about about 8 years or so). I have a little spice every week, its nice :) I used to be a pot head, so its good to have something that physically relaxes u in a similar way.

But generally these types of products work, but not as euphoric or recreational as the real deal.

(Oh and geranium, is kinda a stimulant-relaxy thing, but short and mild next to bzp. Nice enough with a few drinks, but nothing wow about it at all)

BZP is not made from pepper. It is not carcinogenic. Any reported death have co-factors. Dance pills very rarely will contain anything weird like dxm, thats just not a fun substance.

BZP saftey? well we consumed in NZ around 2 million pills a year for more than 10 years and no reported fatalities. Prolly not at all smart if u have mental health issues (like speed), or health problems though. Still no one knows, but id say u can guess moderate use will have no real long term effect. Common sense shud rule, as always with drugs, legal or illegal. (And i and many others have taken plenty of bzp pills for some years, so dont freak about safety, just be sensible .... the md analogues are newer, so prolly more caution there....)

Kava kava? im afraid ull prolly find that boring. You have to take it multiple times before u properly notice effects. It tastes aweful.

if you want something to relax with...Blue lotus tea goes nice with a few wines, though its still on the mild side. Similarly spice etc is good to relax with. (from ur page, id go with yuchatun fire, scence, dream or spice diamond. Smoke is supposed to be good and strong, but unknown ingredients from china and weird body effects and paranoia)

[cleft_asunder]

Well, you know your stuff, but I didn't buy kava kava to get high but rather just as a relaxant. And taste is subjective for the most part.

[dmt head]

Kava kava? im afraid ull prolly find that boring. You have to take it multiple times before u properly notice effects. It tastes aweful.

if you want something to relax with...Blue lotus tea goes nice with a few wines, though its still on the mild side. Similarly spice etc is good to relax with. (from ur page, id go with yuchatun fire, scence, dream or spice diamond. Smoke is supposed to be good and strong, but unknown ingredients from china and weird body effects and paranoia)

Has anyone any experience with kanna?? I got 20g of that to try and Id heard you had to take it for a while before effects were noticed, I tried a gram each day for three days and no effects were noticed though they are meant to be subtle, but that was three weeks ago and its still sitting there., kind of gave up.

As cleft says tastes subjective, if you can drink mimosa or eat cactus then other things seem to be nothing in comparison! My frined drank rue for the first time last night and it was horrible for him but rues really easy for me to drink, quite pallatable lol

Never got anything from blue lotus soaked in wine, but maybe you have to do it a few times?? Open up they receptors maybe? Damiana like blue lotus wasnt noticable. But when smoked was noticable.

Well, you know your stuff, but I didn't buy kava kava to get high but rather just as a relaxant. And taste is subjective for the most part.

Howd the kava go cleft? Was thinking of getting some soon, got one of the best suppilers of it, apparantly, bookmarked, would love to hear your results! pm me and I could tell you this supposed best supplier, heard it from a reliable source! ;)

[drael]

Well, you know your stuff, but I didn't buy kava kava to get high but rather just as a relaxant. And taste is subjective for the most part.

Well its very good for stress and relaxing in a general sense. Still better with an extract IMO, than the raw herb. But some may like it! It numbs the mouth majorly :P

Has anyone any experience with kanna?? I got 20g of that to try and Id heard you had to take it for a while before effects were noticed, I tried a gram each day for three days and no effects were noticed though they are meant to be subtle, but that was three weeks ago and its still sitting there., kind of gave up.


Its both subtle, and has reverse tolerance. On top of that, it really needs either alcohol, or MJ or some other thing to "kick it off", unless u brave the shear hell that is snorting it! :O Its nice, but only very randomly, occasionaly mind blowing, unless u build tolerance, snort or use other drugs in synergy.

However, as a mood enchancer, mostly short term its very very good, and even sometimes gives insight. For me..

A facinating but elusive goddess. And not easy to grow either...

Never got anything from blue lotus soaked in wine, but maybe you have to do it a few times?? Open up they receptors maybe?


First use extract over flowers. The grams of flowers is just unweildy. Second, either soak wine or better vodka with blue lotus for weeks or simpler just boil a tea. Tea works well, especially with some drinks. If u have xtract u avoid boiling or waiting times.

With a few drinks, the tea is sort of euphoric, as well as hypnotic and trancey. Its almost magickal sometimes, though still subtle. I like it alot. I know why the egyptians liked it.

Have to do it right though.

Damiana like blue lotus wasnt noticable. But when smoked was noticable.

Yeah i found damiana sorta intersting. Mainly as a aphrodesiac!

[dmt head]

Its both subtle, and has reverse tolerance. On top of that, it really needs either alcohol, or MJ or some other thing to "kick it off", unless u brave the shear hell that is snorting it! :O Its nice, but only very randomly, occasionaly mind blowing, unless u build tolerance, snort or use other drugs in synergy.

However, as a mood enchancer, mostly short term its very very good, and even sometimes gives insight. For me..

A facinating but elusive goddess. And not easy to grow either...


I heard you could snort it, made the big mistake of doing so when I first got it, always regret it when I snort things :rolleyes: Think I did notice effects but my eye was killing me :rolleyes: and id had a few beers. But the other times when I ate it I swallowed it I didnt notice much, might give it a nother whirl, but it gets in the way of taking cappi as its an ssri, mild but still.

I heard it was easy to grow. Cheers for the advice, I was hoping the kanna would be similiar too khat, that works a treat for the right occasion! ;)