Black/White Magic

[baron von lotsov]

I feel a lot better after ditching anyone locally who messed with the occult. None of them were honest about it and it was completely bad vibes. Indeed it almost drove me mad at what they used to got up to. Having severed contact with these people and generally staying out of it, even to investigate what was going on, I has been a massive weight off my mind.

Indeed I'd liken it to giving up cocaine or something like that. To start off with such a drug is a buzz but it quickly catches up with you and withdrawal and the psychosis it causes become worse in the negative than the high is in the positive. You see how it gets you, you have to do more and more just to keep yourself from feeling depressed from the withdrawal and you become obsessed.

This is exactly what it is like to have anything to do with the occult and I'm not even talking about personally being involved. Just by being in the presence of certain people is enough to affect you. You might find they have a sort of magnetic personality and you might find the women attractive and so on, but there is also a very dark side to it as you get sucked into it very gradually. I saw enough to get out of that circle of people but it took me a long time to realise. It was so well hidden that for years I didn't even know they were into the occult. It's kept very hidden from people they don't know.

[edelweiss pirate]

I feel a lot better after ditching anyone locally who messed with the occult. None of them were honest about it and it was completely bad vibes. Indeed it almost drove me mad at what they used to got up to. Having severed contact with these people and generally staying out of it, even to investigate what was going on, I has been a massive weight off my mind.

Indeed I'd liken it to giving up cocaine or something like that. To start off with such a drug is a buzz but it quickly catches up with you and withdrawal and the psychosis it causes become worse in the negative than the high is in the positive. You see how it gets you, you have to do more and more just to keep yourself from feeling depressed from the withdrawal and you become obsessed.

This is exactly what it is like to have anything to do with the occult and I'm not even talking about personally being involved. Just by being in the presence of certain people is enough to affect you. You might find they have a sort of magnetic personality and you might find the women attractive and so on, but there is also a very dark side to it as you get sucked into it very gradually. I saw enough to get out of that circle of people but it took me a long time to realise. It was so well hidden that for years I didn't even know they were into the occult. It's kept very hidden from people they don't know.

Many people who are involved in the occult are slightly mentally ill and mostly haunted by invisible fears.

I have a schizophrenic friend whose problems started with Wicca and now he has the devil inside him (his words).

It's all very well conjuring spirits but what happens when they don't leave you alone and start haunting you. It happens. Mostly ends in suicide, drug or alcohol addiction, or the spirits get into you and then you yourself become evil....



The fact that people like him are interested in the occult should be warning enough to people that it's not the path for the humble, intelligent and genuinely loving person. But the 'know-it-all' with a chip on their shoulder who's after something and won't listen to reason, even from people who've been where he would like to go....

I mean, if you want to go to a country, it might be smart to ask someone who's been there what it was like.

You'd think so anyway....

[thirdwave]

Any Christians you know are probably looking out for your soul because you seem intent on chucking it in the bin.

I don't speak as a Christian, but I do speak as someone who knows that people who play with fire get burnt.


Well Christians appear to be the opposite to occultists from a christians perspective... are christians going to save the world from the occult (hidden knowledge) that is the question... finding out who "hid" it would be an interesting start lol..

Every Christian I have met is to concerned about keeping there reality tunnel intact to give a real shit about anything or anyone else, how ever they like to colour it, you cant take someone's freedom and true desire away nicely... no matter how white your teeth are!

that's the real truth..

And I would not really value your judgement on the meaning of the word soul let alone your imposing judgement of mine....

[seanx]

You know I always wonder why posters like you and the Baron get
so upset by the posts of people like TW.

And of course, it's simple: He has an open-mind.

He' willing to listen and go where his intuitive mind takes him,
whether that's the spiritual ideas of Icke's or the sex magic of Crowley.

It's called freedom of spirit.

So to people imprisioned in a rigid, religious 'program' where they
believe their 'souls' will be at risk if they don't obey the rules of their
program.....of course it will lead to anger and frustration which they
will project out.

I mean why does it bother you so much if TW and others like him
go beyond the boundaries that the Elite of this earth have
subscribed for us?

[thirdwave]

You know I always wonder why posters like you and the Baron get
so upset by the posts of people like TW.

And of course, it's simple: He has an open-mind.

He' willing to listen and go where his intuitive mind takes him,
whether that's the spiritual ideas of Icke's or the sex magic of Crowley.

It's called freedom of spirit.

Its a great thing that there are still people around who can recognize this Sean.. people allways agreeing is not what is needed for peace... but people recognizing freedom is what is IMO.

that's what I feel is going wrong with the world today is people are simply forgetting what real freedom is... and do not appreciate how it feels..

[edelweiss pirate]

EP wrote:



You know I always wonder why posters like you and the Baron get
so upset by the posts of people like TW.

And of course, it's simple: He has an open-mind.

He' willing to listen and go where his intuitive mind takes him,
whether that's the spiritual ideas of Icke's or the sex magic of Crowley.

It's called freedom of spirit.

So to people imprisioned in a rigid, religious 'program' where they
believe their 'souls' will be at risk if they don't obey the rules of their
program.....of course it will lead to anger and frustration which they
will project out.

I mean why does it bother you so much if TW and others like him
go beyond the boundaries that the Elite of this earth have
subscribed for us?


It 'bothers' me Sean, to have to watch a car accident in slow motion and the people involved in the accident to smile and wave and say 'I'm having a great time!'....

I like to try to prevent these kind of accidents. That's what we're here to do. Someone who truly cares about his fellow man will point out the truth of things even if the person doesn't want to hear them.

The fool or false friend will however merrily encourage the person to put his foot down and then applaud the car crash.

You'll find the occult is full of people clapping at each other as they smash into each other and destroy themselves.

That's enough for now. I've done all I can and made my point. I find all this really quite draining.

[jojo]

It 'bothers' me Sean, to have to watch a car accident in slow motion and the people involved in the accident to smile and wave and say 'I'm having a great time!'....
How do you know that their lives are car accidents? do you know them as people?



I like to try to prevent these kind of accidents. That's what we're here to do. Someone who truly cares about his fellow man will point out the truth of things even if the person doesn't want to hear them.
surly it is not your right to impose you will on other people in a manner like this?


The fool or false friend will however merrily encourage the person to put his foot down and then applaud the car crash
You'll find the occult is full of people clapping at each other as they smash into each other and destroy themselves.
again, how do you know this? you must know a lot of people in the occult world for you to have decifered this view?

enough for now. I've done all I can and made my point. I find all this really quite draining.
fair enough, try to stop being so judgemental on others. I will not expect an answer to this post.

[phildee3]

Christians appear to be the opposite to occultists from a christians perspective...



Are you a Christian, thirdwave?
If not, how can you say what a Christian's perspective is??

I am a Christian
and from my perspective, Christianity is profoundly occult.

[baron von lotsov]

Lets face it guys, this David Icke 'resistance' has more dodgy occultists and masons who are at one with the Illuminati's goals than people with even half a brain. I have found it most interesting to observe their scheming minds at work on the other half of this forum that mainly consists of utter halfwits. The few who have grasped the picture constantly put down by the idiots who have swallowed the Illuminati's lies to entrap more of the same who take an interest in the occult 'for research purposes'.

Well let me tell you something, my area of research is in exactly this sort of thing. I'm interested in how people can be so utterly stupid to swallow the NWO and believe in it. I learn a great deal on here and I see exactly how it is done. Most is with the ease of a knife through warm butter. You half-wits have not had a proper education, you actually believe black is white and you are lost and that's how you ended up on here. You are looking for the answer and of course because you are so weak minded you always follow the majority and so you too take an interest in the occult and get your lives fucked up. Then you start buying stuff in an attempt to buy back your soul. You know what I'm talking about, just look at the Google ads on the Icke site. Monatomic gold, crystals, new age crap, green shit, dodgy preacher videos. Rip off conferences. Oh yes and its a multi-billion pound Illuminati industry.

[seeker1111]

Lets face it guys, this David Icke 'resistance' has more dodgy occultists and masons who are at one with the Illuminati's goals than people with even half a brain. I have found it most interesting to observe their scheming minds at work on the other half of this forum that mainly consists of utter halfwits. The few who have grasped the picture constantly put down by the idiots who have swallowed the Illuminati's lies to entrap more of the same who take an interest in the occult 'for research purposes'.

Well let me tell you something, my area of research is in exactly this sort of thing. I'm interested in how people can be so utterly stupid to swallow the NWO and believe in it. I learn a great deal on here and I see exactly how it is done. Most is with the ease of a knife through warm butter. You half-wits have not had a proper education, you actually believe black is white and you are lost and that's how you ended up on here. You are looking for the answer and of course because you are so weak minded you always follow the majority and so you too take an interest in the occult and get your lives fucked up. Then you start buying stuff in an attempt to buy back your soul. You know what I'm talking about, just look at the Google ads on the Icke site. Monatomic gold, crystals, new age crap, green shit, dodgy preacher videos. Rip off conferences. Oh yes and its a multi-billion pound Illuminati industry.

what exactly is black and white? and who says it is?

[baron von lotsov]

Oh dear. I didn't know we had gone so remedial.

Black is something that is obviously dodgy and white is something entirely innocent. That's why when people get married the woman wears a white wedding dress. When people get things mixed up to such a degree that they can't tell the difference between total opposites then they are fucked up. Is that clear now or would you like me to teach you what each one of the above words means?

[lenejento]

Lets face it guys, this David Icke 'resistance' has more dodgy occultists and masons who are at one with the Illuminati's goals than people with even half a brain. I have found it most interesting to observe their scheming minds at work on the other half of this forum that mainly consists of utter halfwits. The few who have grasped the picture constantly put down by the idiots who have swallowed the Illuminati's lies to entrap more of the same who take an interest in the occult 'for research purposes'.

Well let me tell you something, my area of research is in exactly this sort of thing. I'm interested in how people can be so utterly stupid to swallow the NWO and believe in it. I learn a great deal on here and I see exactly how it is done. Most is with the ease of a knife through warm butter. You half-wits have not had a proper education, you actually believe black is white and you are lost and that's how you ended up on here. You are looking for the answer and of course because you are so weak minded you always follow the majority and so you too take an interest in the occult and get your lives fucked up. Then you start buying stuff in an attempt to buy back your soul. You know what I'm talking about, just look at the Google ads on the Icke site. Monatomic gold, crystals, new age crap, green shit, dodgy preacher videos. Rip off conferences. Oh yes and its a multi-billion pound Illuminati industry.


So what is your advice to those who have been "fucked up" by the occult then?

[seeker1111]

Oh dear. I didn't know we had gone so remedial.

Black is something that is obviously dodgy and white is something entirely innocent. That's why when people get married the woman wears a white wedding dress. When people get things mixed up to such a degree that they can't tell the difference between total opposites then they are fucked up. Is that clear now or would you like me to teach you what each one of the above words means?

ah i see.... :)

couldn't it all be a matter of perception? the way you see black, or red, or green might be different than what i see. so then which colors are the 'right' ones to go by, or is there a scale that we must measure each against. what about people who are color blind? they certainly don't see the colors the same way as the person who is not. so would you call the color blind person 'fucked up' or the guy who isn't color blind....

so i would argue that things cannot be explained away so easily with the terminology of black and white and expect everyone to agree on something that even scientists have a difficult time agreeing on.

Black is something that is obviously dodgy and white is something entirely innocent. That's why when people get married the woman wears a white wedding dress.

I will have to disagree with that insightful definition of black and white. :)

[seanx]

To EP, I was going to respond to you but this post by jojo cannot
be bettered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate
It 'bothers' me Sean, to have to watch a car accident in slow motion and the people involved in the accident to smile and wave and say 'I'm having a great time!'....

How do you know that their lives are car accidents? do you know them as people?


Quote:

I like to try to prevent these kind of accidents. That's what we're here to do. Someone who truly cares about his fellow man will point out the truth of things even if the person doesn't want to hear them.

surly it is not your right to impose you will on other people in a manner like this?


Quote:
The fool or false friend will however merrily encourage the person to put his foot down and then applaud the car crash
You'll find the occult is full of people clapping at each other as they smash into each other and destroy themselves.

again, how do you know this? you must know a lot of people in the occult world for you to have decifered this view?
Quote:
enough for now. I've done all I can and made my point. I find all this really quite draining.

fair enough, try to stop being so judgemental on others. I will not expect an answer to this post.

[baron von lotsov]

So what is your advice to those who have been "fucked up" by the occult then?


Walk away from it and all the people who you know who are involved with it. It's the only way because just being in the presence of such people is bad enough. And I'm talking from experience and I have seen what they do. They have no morels, they are completely zombified and you know when you are affected as it is a kind of madness, the feeling of deep discontent with everything. This can and often does lead to people committing suicide, but try pointing this out to these people and you will get a 100 page thread of denial. I know this because this is what has happened on here. They defend the indefensible. They are obsessed with it.

[shodan]

hey guys can we keep this on topic, cheers

[seanx]

Originally Posted by baron von lotsov
Lets face it guys, this David Icke 'resistance' has more dodgy occultists and masons who are at one with the Illuminati's goals than people with even half a brain. I have found it most interesting to observe their scheming minds at work on the other half of this forum that mainly consists of utter halfwits. The few who have grasped the picture constantly put down by the idiots who have swallowed the Illuminati's lies to entrap more of the same who take an interest in the occult 'for research purposes'.

Well let me tell you something, my area of research is in exactly this sort of thing. I'm interested in how people can be so utterly stupid to swallow the NWO and believe in it. I learn a great deal on here and I see exactly how it is done. Most is with the ease of a knife through warm butter. You half-wits have not had a proper education, you actually believe black is white and you are lost and that's how you ended up on here. You are looking for the answer and of course because you are so weak minded you always follow the majority and so you too take an interest in the occult and get your lives fucked up. Then you start buying stuff in an attempt to buy back your soul. You know what I'm talking about, just look at the Google ads on the Icke site. Monatomic gold, crystals, new age crap, green shit, dodgy preacher videos. Rip off conferences. Oh yes and its a multi-billion pound Illuminati industry.

Classic Baron.

Put and label EVERYTHING that is outside the beliefs of his Christian
program as 'occult'.

As 'dangerous'. 'Bad'.


Occult simply means 'hidden'


It involves the use of will, intention and energy.

It is neutral.


What is important is the INTENTION, the MOTIVE behind it.


So a native American Hopi woman using her will, intention and the
wholeenergy of her being to invoke, to decree an abundance of
rain to fall on her land to feed and nourish her people -is 'occult'
and according to you is 'bad'


But that cannot be compared to a group of Illuminati Elite
perverting the same forces of Will, intention and energy
to create a fear- based outcome that is based on forcing their will
on other people.


Anyway, you need not worry about these people.


The thoughtforms they send out become 'alive' in the mental
and astral realms.


According to psychics, they can be horrific to experience on that
level. They are literally 'real events' that have been created.


But what you send out is what you get back.


And the demons that these people always seem to experience
at the end of their lives, and after they die is simply them experiencing
their own thoughtforms.

The law in action. No judgement - simply the law in action.


Whereas the experience of the Hopi woman when she dies
will be one of abundance and joy. Experiencing in adundance what
she sent out


So loading everything into one label - occult - and judging it
bad - is simply your 'programming' speaking.

Total nonsense.

[baron von lotsov]

Give it a break Seanx. I was not even writing it for your benefit.

[nessa felagund]

cheers everyone! I'm just trying to save this thread from the rant room. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you in advance . . .

nessa ;):)

[baron von lotsov]

Many people who are involved in the occult are slightly mentally ill and mostly haunted by invisible fears.

I have a schizophrenic friend whose problems started with Wicca and now he has the devil inside him (his words).

It's all very well conjuring spirits but what happens when they don't leave you alone and start haunting you. It happens. Mostly ends in suicide, drug or alcohol addiction, or the spirits get into you and then you yourself become evil....



The fact that people like him are interested in the occult should be warning enough to people that it's not the path for the humble, intelligent and genuinely loving person. But the 'know-it-all' with a chip on their shoulder who's after something and won't listen to reason, even from people who've been where he would like to go....

I mean, if you want to go to a country, it might be smart to ask someone who's been there what it was like.

You'd think so anyway....

I view things these days as it being like some deadly disease. You have a dilemma, you see someone dying from it but you know if you help them then you will catch it as well and so on until we are all dead. Those who have just caught it and are not infectious you can still help but there becomes a point where some are so far gone that it's impossible for them to recover. I see it on this forum, quite a few good people I have known have now succumbed to these mason's poison and bit-by-bit I see them heading for disaster. The trouble is they are in denial. The more you mention it the stronger their resistance is to anyone trying to advise them out of it. Like being on heroin it is the addict that has to do it, no one can do it for them.

[thirdwave]

Are you a Christian, thirdwave?
If not, how can you say what a Christian's perspective is??

I am a Christian
and from my perspective, Christianity is profoundly occult.

You are a very rare case christian.... never seen a case like you... well done for that but I cant be arsed to think of a new name for a new breed of christian.... just think of my references to the massive movement called Christianity that you don't seem to be a part of.



Black is something that is obviously dodgy and white is something entirely innocent. That's why when people get married the woman wears a white wedding dress. When people get things mixed up to such a degree that they can't tell the difference between total opposites then they are fucked up. Is that clear now or would you like me to teach you what each one of the above words means?

you see Baron, this post shows how clueless you really are... "black is something that is obviously dodgy" ???... i mean are you being serious??

if black was not there ..there would be no white... and visa versa..

and to show you even more how silly that sounds is how you seem very much in favour of male energy in Christianity... which black can be seen as male energy and white as female energy.. so here you are completely contradicting your self...

:rolleyes:

Walk away from it and all the people who you know who are involved with it. It's the only way because just being in the presence of such people is bad enough. And I'm talking from experience and I have seen what they do. They have no morels, they are completely zombified and you know when you are affected as it is a kind of madness, the feeling of deep discontent with everything. This can and often does lead to people committing suicide, but try pointing this out to these people and you will get a 100 page thread of denial. I know this because this is what has happened on here. They defend the indefensible. They are obsessed with it.

hog wash... as usual you are happy to generalise anything you don't like, and excuse all the disgusting things that have been done in the name of christianity... but because that's your house you are quite happy to defend it...

what you need to ask your self is if the occult is such terrible knowledge... and we are living in a world that you are the first to say that is controlled fully by the elite... then why is %99 of the worlds population clueless to the occult? and not revelling in this dangerous knowledge?

anyone who really cared for these people other than just for their religion.. would advise people to learn more about it and to understand it more.. so that it is done properly... but you don't want people to understand it because you are to busy clinging onto your brainwashed state.

cheers everyone! I'm just trying to save this thread from the rant room. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you in advance . . .

nessa ;):)

It seems that a good amount of people seem to think its a topic worth discussing even though the thread has split haired.... how about splitting it?

[lenejento]

Walk away from it and all the people who you know who are involved with it. It's the only way because just being in the presence of such people is bad enough. And I'm talking from experience and I have seen what they do. They have no morels, they are completely zombified and you know when you are affected as it is a kind of madness, the feeling of deep discontent with everything. This can and often does lead to people committing suicide, but try pointing this out to these people and you will get a 100 page thread of denial. I know this because this is what has happened on here. They defend the indefensible. They are obsessed with it.

Well, while I can agree that some people are unstable in the 'occult', and people seeking pure empowerment more/instead of freedom/truth can end up very disillusioned, I don't think investigating and being curious of the occult/the knowledge that has been hidden from us is bad as knowledge isn't evil in itself...

When it comes to morals that's a whole different subject, since one persons morals can differ from that of another, even though both are generally 'good people'. I'm sure there are 'wrong' acts you and every one else here will agree on and we are I believe, those acts are only acted out in unawareness, that is by someone who is so disillusioned they probably don't even know it themselves (that they are disillusioned) and might even think they aren't doing anything wrong. So I see what you mean. We all have something stable within us which is our heart, and if we are to study the occult we should also be aware of our centre, our hearts.

[seeker1111]

we could start a new thread about the topic too...just copy and paste some of this info so people know where its coming from...

i had a bunch of posts deleted myself in this thread lol so i won't post anymore on the matter

[nessa felagund]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nessa felagund View Post
cheers everyone! I'm just trying to save this thread from the rant room. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you in advance . . .

nessa
It seems that a good amount of people seem to think its a topic worth discussing even though the thread has slip haired.... how about splitting it?
__________________

Well it ain't in the rant room, yet! LOL Keep it on topic and insult-free, and it will stay right here where everyone can discuss it. Or start your own thead--either way. :):p:D

[seanx]

Give it a break Seanx. I was not even writing it for your benefit.

I know Baron.

You know I saw through your game eons ago as do my posters here.

it's the only 'fear' game favoured by you Christians.

You're looking for some newbes who are interested in Ickes ideas
that you can scare away!

As for all these occutist you meet, who are draining and suicidal.
I don't doubt you.

It's possible.

Like sex, it can take you to either Heaven or hell.

But I live in a Christian country, mr Baron - and last year, we
had over 50 suicides of young people related to abuses from
clergy, who follow your beliefs .

Now, I could use that and make a general Absolute statement
that ALL clergy are abusers, which would be blantant nonsense.

Absolute nonsense

it's a pity you can't see the logic in that?

[seeker1111]

Well it ain't in the rant room, yet! LOL Keep it on topic and insult-free, and it will stay right here where everyone can discuss it. Or start your own thead--either way. :):p:D

mine were 100% insult free...lol oh well...i shall repost in another thread.

[nessa felagund]

This thread has been split off of one from general. I would like to ask all of you who intend to carry on this discussion to please not insult each other.

[rossus]

I must agree a little bit with Baron Von Lotsov & Edelweiss Pirate

So far I have met around 10 different people (maybe more), all on different occasions...
of which all of them who practice "magic"...
and are busy with Crystals and the powers of "spirits".

Several of them were indeed somehow possessed
in a way that make them very unhappy...

and those that weren't plagued with unhappiness/delusion to an extreme degree,
they didn't seem very happy/clearminded either.




I think that "magick" often goes wrong when people start inviting spirits into their lives...
spirits they have conversation with
or spirits that give them special powers, to predict the future and stuff like that. Ouijja, Tarot, etc...

I'm not 100% sure but from what i've seen, read and heard...
this stuff seems dodgy!

How can we trust a spirit anyway,
just becoz it tells the truth about some things doesn't mean it will not lie about other things.
just becoz it gives some good things, doesn't mean it will not do bad things.
They can very well be 2faced, just like humans can be.





I will admit, that i do not know completely what is THE TRUTH about this subject...
but I have seen, heard and read enough to know that it is often not what is cracked up to be. ;)

I think that perhaps it is a not so bad decision,
to trust your soul only 100% with pure unconditional love...

I also think it is a not so bad decision,
that instead of trying to gain POWER, WEALTH, MATERIAL or SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES...

to just try to be a good person.
Keep the mind clear, and desire what is pure...
When do this...
one will more and more start experience the good clean natural happiness of a heart full of unconditional love.

like the bible quote says:
Except ye become as little children, ye will not enter the
Kingdom of Heaven.
- Matthew 18:3

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
- Matthew 5:8

[rossus]

I think it is too cheap to continually put the "just-a-brainwashed-christian"-label
on Baron Von Lotsov and the other persons who inspired by the bible.

Calling them "just-a-brainwashed-christian" is not only an insult that is totally irrelevant to the matters they discuss,
it also kinds of give the message to the other people on this board "don't listen to this guy, he just a dumb christian",
which is not fair.



For sure there is many "ignorant" christians...
But Many christians are very intelligent,

and even though i am not a christian because there is things in the christian belief i do not agree with...
I have no problem admitting that there is truth written in this book as well.



I also think it should be common sense...
that we cannot blame the people who truely practice the words that are in the bible,
for the pedophiles who pose as God's-Men but do not practice what they preach...

[baron von lotsov]

rossus

Basically what happens is pretty much what you say. Whatever one's intention is to start with these supernatural entities take over the soul. It happens gradually, sometimes over many years but sometimes much quicker. A weak soul is especially vulnerable but eventually anyone could screw up doing this sort of thing.

I have never met anyone who has truly benefited, its just illusion. A feeling thing, maybe a bit of a buzz at the time but like a drug it catches up on you sooner or later. Also it distracts from real things in life like real personal achievements and goals. That's what I always recommend, to focus on doing something that has purpose and meaning. That's what will keep people sane. I'm not saying everyone should go to church every Sunday, people just plant that label on me. I'm saying stay away from occult stuff and maybe six months down the line you will actually notice a change. I did.

[rossus]

well yes,

as you can see,
i kind of agree with the spirits/crystals stuff...
i've seen/heard/read enough to know there is truth in what u say about it.


but maybe u would call the "meditation" i practice,
also something that is "occult" and therefor bad..
so i'm not really agreeing with "all occult is bad"...

or at least not untill i know completely all the things that you group together into the word "occult".


~~

may Love bless all

[lenejento]

There might be some knowledge in the occult that might open ones mind and understanding, like knowledge of the conspiracy did for us all. So when you say the occult is all illusion, I think that is the same as saying the conspiracy knowledge is all illusion.

I kind of agree with it because I think that ultimately all knowledge is illusion, but that doesen't mean we have to stop attaining knowledge...

[thirdwave]

I must agree a little bit with Baron Von Lotsov & Edelweiss Pirate

*cringe*

So far I have met around 10 different people (maybe more), all on different occasions...
of which all of them who practice "magic"...
and are busy with Crystals and the powers of "spirits".

you have met 10 people into the occult?.... thats some going!!

I have met a few and they happen to be the most aware and spiritually enlightened folk I know..

anyone that walks around in this piece of shit of a zoo we are living in with a 24/7 smile on their face has got to be full of shit...

Several of them were indeed somehow possessed
in a way that make them very unhappy...
this is the case with %90 of the whole world so not sure what you mean...

and those that weren't plagued with unhappiness/delusion to an extreme degree,
they didn't seem very happy/clearminded either.
For some reason I dont trust what you are saying... and I think the thread you started was actually a bit dodgy to start with.... the story was vague and odd.




I think that "magick" often goes wrong when people start inviting spirits into their lives...
spirits they have conversation with
or spirits that give them special powers, to predict the future and stuff like that. Ouijja, Tarot, etc...

the ignorance people have with it is what is the problem... if you attempt to rewire the electrics in your home then you are playing with fire... its as simple as that.. you need to know your self and know what you are doing... to imply that it should be stopped is to basically cripple other peoples evolution because of those who are not....


I'm not 100% sure but from what i've seen, read and heard...
this stuff seems dodgy!
exactly.

How can we trust a spirit anyway,
just becoz it tells the truth about some things doesn't mean it will not lie about other things.
just becoz it gives some good things, doesn't mean it will not do bad things.
They can very well be 2faced, just like humans can be.

Very true... and this is why you need to be an adult... you can say that same about everyday life... how do you know a cab driver wont stab you in the side as he drops you home... nicks your wallet and drives off?

you have your wits about you that's how you solve it and you learn to defend your self in lots of ways... should you start to interact with other beings then its the same story.

I am not at all ready to do things such as invoke spirits but I wont attack it... I think we are moving into times where such things are very relevant so i am educating my self.


I will admit, that i do not know completely what is THE TRUTH about this subject...
but I have seen, heard and read enough to know that it is often not what is cracked up to be. ;)
you have not read up on the occult at all... you have clearly read up on the fear mongering crap and have probably never picked up a proper occult book in your life... your generalising tone highlights this.


I think that perhaps it is a not so bad decision,
to trust your soul only 100% with pure unconditional love...
and when was the last time you spent a whole week pushing out unconditional love?? :rolleyes: ...

there is obviously a blockage going on some place... look at the world and ask your self how many people in practice magick??

I also think it is a not so bad decision,
that instead of trying to gain POWER, WEALTH, MATERIAL or SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES...

to just try to be a good person.

What?

another indication you feel magick is all about power and wealth which is bullshit!... and the kind of shit Baron comes out with...

The occult consists of many many things and one of the most important aspects is meditation... breathing... and making your body and soul a healthy unit... its about programming your own mind and taking control of your own life ..rather than others doing so.



i
Keep the mind clear, and desire what is pure...
When do this...
one will more and more start experience the good clean natural happiness of a heart full of unconditional love.

like the bible quote says

ahhhh ok, the bible said it... ok ...sorry.... i sence a bible bashing session coming on..

I think it is too cheap to continually put the "just-a-brainwashed-christian"-label
on Baron Von Lotsov and the other persons who inspired by the bible.

well then they should respect others inspirations... the way they treat people who study and practice in occults is degrading and disgusting if you ask me... they come across as fascist people.... if that's christian than you can have it.



Calling them "just-a-brainwashed-christian" is not only an insult that is totally irrelevant to the matters they discuss,
it also kinds of give the message to the other people on this board "don't listen to this guy, he just a dumb christian",
which is not fair.

LOL, your hypocrisy exposes you more than anything I can say.


For sure there is many "ignorant" christians...
But Many christians are very intelligent,
But all "occultists" are evil right? ...


rossus

Basically what happens is pretty much what you say. Whatever one's intention is to start with these supernatural entities take over the soul. It happens gradually, sometimes over many years but sometimes much quicker. A weak soul is especially vulnerable but eventually anyone could screw up doing this sort of thing.

Baron dear fellow, this is a cop out... this happens to millions of people over the world who do not even know that magick is real or relevant... this happens to many christians and Muslims around the world and other faiths... nothing to do with magick... if anything learning magick at least gives some people the knowledge to prevent such things or amend them...

not that Im expecting you to understand such a concept... you may thing that within ignorance is safety but you are wrong.



I have never met anyone who has truly benefited, its just illusion. I don't believe you... and I think you would be to busy crapping your pants because of a T shirt they are wearing to notice if they are happy or not...

[thirdwave]

There might be some knowledge in the occult that might open ones mind and understanding, like knowledge of the conspiracy did for us all. So when you say the occult is all illusion, I think that is the same as saying the conspiracy knowledge is all illusion.

I kind of agree with it because I think that ultimately all knowledge is illusion, but that doesen't mean we have to stop attaining knowledge...

well the funny thing is, is that part of magick is kind of understanding that its all an illusion which is why we can influence it...

we are all magicians.... we should all have the knowledge and we should all be good at it....

the occult is a wrecked castle... and because it is not liveable for all at the moment people attack it... which that's not the answer..the answer is learning who attacked the castle and re building it and making it a safer place to live....

[rossus]

you have met 10 people into the occult?.... thats some going!!
10 to 15 i've actually had deeper conversation with...
but i've obviously seen more of them, and observed their behavior...

was enough for me to see that many of them aren't really happy,
and many of them are deluded.

i said i don't really know for sure "how it all really is".

i don't even say "all occult is evil"...
but i've seen enough to see there is truth to the opinion of Baron Von Lotsov and other christian oriented people...
and that would especially be with the contact with "spirit-entities" thing, crystals, ouijja, tarot..

all your answers to me seem to have a strong YOU-VS-ME attitude to it... keep cool my brother. :)

anyone that walks around in this piece of shit of a zoo we are living in with a 24/7 smile on their face has got to be full of shit...
smiling 24/7 isn't natural indeed,
but being happy 24/7 seems to me be a good sign of being well grounded in something positive...

besides, there's more to life that the "piece of shit of a zoo" that you seem to experience.this is the case with %90 of the whole world so not sure what you mean...
their spiritual beliefs and practice and work with "spirits",
didn't really seem to have fixed the core problem of life... which is unhappiness...

so i mean it didn't seem to deliver to them what it promises.
well then they should respect others inspirations... the way they treat people who study and practice in occults is degrading and disgusting if you ask me... they come across as fascist people.... if that's christian than you can have it.
i haven't really witnessed them do this,
but if what you say is true... then that is indeed not very good of them.

but if they be like this, you must also be like this then?


"eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind"

[thirdwave]

10 to 15 i've actually had deeper conversation with...
but i've obviously seen more of them, and observed their behavior...

was enough for me to see that many of them aren't really happy,
and many of them are deluded.


I personally think you are fibbing but that's just me.. for a start its not really something that real magicians go around advertising... so you would have to know them pretty well and 15 or so is allot of good mates to have into magick... and for them to also be deluded or unhappy?... how you get to meet them all and get close enough to know what they are into?.... any respectable magician does not go round telling every tom dick and harry.... Could you elaborate on who they are and how yo know them... and what kind of stuff they are into... so on?



i said i don't really know for sure "how it all really is".

i don't even say "all occult is evil"...
all your answers to me seem to have a strong YOU-VS-ME attitude to it... keep cool my brother. :)

Im as cool as a glass of cold water don't worry bout that :)

Im just speaking my mind and I don't personally feel you are as "down the middle" as you are trying to make out, your tone is totally biased and you have said nothing which shows the slightest bit of knowledge on what the occult even is.

but i've seen enough to see there is truth to the opinion of Baron Von Lotsov...
well we all have opinions... I am yet to hear the an ounce of occult knowledge come through his lips other than... "i have met this guy" ... and "I knew a girl who did this..." .. where the hell do you guys go to meet so many of these people who you don't want to have anything to do with??

are they stalking you or something??... have you got T shirts saying magicians come to me!!...

Baron has been attacking these movements on line even on the old Icke forum.... saying the same shit... but he seems to love to hang around with them and socialise with them!... hell he gets to meet more of them than I do!!... that's no fair!


smiling 24/7 isn't natural indeed,

but being happy 24/7 seems to me be a good sign of being well grounded in something positive...

No it does not it sounds like a fairy tail... we come here to expirience and learn and part of that is to take the rough with the smooth.... being "happy" 24/7 sounds like some creepy movie where some crazy scientist is trying to save the human race from its emotion.

sometimes your not happy because your not meant to be happy....

as long as you are a healthy person you will be happy and you will be un happy.... you get un happy for a reason... a little bit like why your can feel things with your fingers.


i mean that their spiritual beliefs and practice and work with "spirits",
didn't really seem to have fixed the core problem of unhappiness...
so i mean it didn't seem to deliver to them what it promises.


not all of them work with spirits... and a good magician should be able to banish a spirit as easily as evoke one, many shamans save people lives around the world with this ability... but yet some people don't know what they are doing .... and mes them selves up... shame there is not a decent education system set up for this.

Christianity has killed FAR FAR FAR more people that the occult has... and that's not bringing Islam and Judisum into it...

what has been forced into our society the most over the last 200 years ....the Occult or Christianity?... and who do you think has really been pulling the strings??

[lenejento]

TW, I think you're right when you said that ignorance doesen't protect.

I think when people enter the occult and become aware of the astral realm/dimension for example, with its entities, these entities will become more active/aggressive in their manipulation/torture/confusion of this person, since this person has found out about them. They don't want you to find even deeper truth and they want you to suffer. Which is too much for some to take?

So people who are ignorant about them are still being manipulated by them, to help keep the suffering going so to speak. lol

I think that unless you find out who you are and so vibrate so highly you become untouchable. People don't have to study the occult or even conspiracy to 'do' this.

End note: I am not 100% sure if what I am saying above is true, it's kind of guessing for now :) And I don't know much about the occult either, just read abit about it.

[thirdwave]

TW, I think you're right when you said that ignorance doesen't protect.

I think when people enter the occult and become aware of the astral realm/dimension for example, with its entities, these entities will become more active/aggressive in their manipulation/torture/confusion of this person, since this person has found out about them. They don't want you to find even deeper truth and they want you to suffer. Which is too much for some to take?

So people who are ignorant about them are still being manipulated by them, to help keep the suffering going so to speak. lol

I think that unless you find out who you are and so vibrate so highly you become untouchable. People don't have to study the occult or even conspiracy to 'do' this.

End note: I am not 100% sure if what I am saying above is true, it's kind of guessing for now :) And I don't know much about the occult either, just read abit about it.


Very good point and I agree totally.... you don't have to study it, its not like you will go to hell and suffer if you dont... if it aint fixed then dont fix it... and Like anything if it does not press your buttons then its not for you... another path is...

watch or read Lord of the rings... that movie says it all.... out of all the powerful fighters and wizards... who was the real hero?.. and what was his power?... in that world we are like a bunch of 3 year olds walking about..

but some people are gifted and can put use to the knowledge... as with any arts.

I still say though that most peoples fears of this stuff... and vulnerability's are due to the surrounding's we are brought up in and how the western world is so starved of spiritual life... in that we are like a bunch of 3 year olds wondering about in that world..

[lenejento]

Very good point and I agree totally.... you don't have to study it, its not like you will go to hell and suffer if you dont... if it aint fixed then dont fix it... and Like anything if it does not press your buttons then its not for you... another path is...

watch or read Lord of the rings... that movie says it all.... out of all the powerful fighters and wizards... who was the real hero?.. and what was his power?... in that world we are like a bunch of 3 year olds walking about..

but some people are gifted and can put use to the knowledge... as with any arts.

I still say though that most peoples fears of this stuff... and vulnerability's are due to the surrounding's we are brought up in and how the western world is so starved of spiritual life... in that we are like a bunch of 3 year olds wondering about in that world..

Agreed and good night, bed is waiting for me :)

[damagedbrainn]

I think it is too cheap to continually put the "just-a-brainwashed-christian"-label
on Baron Von Lotsov and the other persons who inspired by the bible.

Calling them "just-a-brainwashed-christian" is not only an insult that is totally irrelevant to the matters they discuss,
it also kinds of give the message to the other people on this board "don't listen to this guy, he just a dumb christian",
which is not fair.

But things like "just-a-brainwashed-satanist", "just-a-brainwashed-mason", "just-a-brainwashed-occultist", etc....are different?

[damagedbrainn]

rossus

Basically what happens is pretty much what you say. Whatever one's intention is to start with these supernatural entities take over the soul. It happens gradually, sometimes over many years but sometimes much quicker. A weak soul is especially vulnerable but eventually anyone could screw up doing this sort of thing.

I have never met anyone who has truly benefited, its just illusion. A feeling thing, maybe a bit of a buzz at the time but like a drug it catches up on you sooner or later. Also it distracts from real things in life like real personal achievements and goals. That's what I always recommend, to focus on doing something that has purpose and meaning. That's what will keep people sane. I'm not saying everyone should go to church every Sunday, people just plant that label on me. I'm saying stay away from occult stuff and maybe six months down the line you will actually notice a change. I did.

Okay. So you're in no way advocating, or even advising, that people put their faith in Jesus Christ. Just that they simply turn away from the occult. So, let's say, if they were to turn away from the occult and become a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Buddhist, or even an atheist or abandoning any sort of faith in any such thing; then you would consider that just as good?

[rossus]

I personally think you are fibbing but that's just me.. for a start its not really something that real magicians go around advertising... so you would have to know them pretty well and 15 or so is allot of good mates to have into magick... and for them to also be deluded or unhappy?... how you get to meet them all and get close enough to know what they are into?.... any respectable magician does not go round telling every tom dick and harry.... Could you elaborate on who they are and how yo know them... and what kind of stuff they are into... so on?
not all good mates,
but 5 good mates with many long conversation..

and around 10 people who i met and had deeper conversation with,
but didn't know for longer than a few days.

and then also the people i ran into and only had superficial contact with.



the stuff they were in: tarot, crystals, spirits
their problem: some quite crazy beliefs, some had strong unhappiness, some bit less strong unhappiness, some bit less crazy beliefs but still off track i think.



why they did what they do was to become a happier person and "evolve spiritually"..
of which i don't think their "balancing of negative energy & positive energy" and other activities was very effective at.

others may have just been into manipulation of the material world,
so with these people i can't say that their activities are inneffective..
if they were not being used with aim for more happiness in the first place.



other than the people i met in real life,
i have read and heard from different sources who aren't christian per se,
that especially the contact with spirit-entities stuff like oujja tarot or channeling easily gets dodgy.

i don't mean to say that even the "spirits-entities-stuff" can not be done in an absolute safe way,
neither do i say that "all occult is evil" because baron probably thinks that the thing i do would be "occult"
and therefor evil as well..

but i suspect that some or many of the people who end up burning themselves
with stuff like "spirit entities" originally thought it was safe too...
when it wasn't really.

Christianity has killed FAR FAR FAR more people that the occult has... and that's not bringing Islam and Judisum into it...

what has been forced into our society the most over the last 200 years ....the Occult or Christianity?... and who do you think has really been pulling the strings??
many people in the past have killed and done a lot of wrong, in the name of christianity,
but these people didn't practice a christian way of life...

so the real christians haven't killed anyone if you ask me.
you can't blame christianity for the things people like George Bush do to please their masters.

But things like "just-a-brainwashed-satanist", "just-a-brainwashed-mason", "just-a-brainwashed-occultist", etc....are different?
i'm not saying that,
and if Baron is generalizing like that then that it is wrong action of him...

but when he make wrong action, then again
does this justify your wrong action?
"eye for an eye" has ruined many discussion here,
and it has ruined more than just discussions on the internet.

it would be better if we all just continue to respect eachother
even when our ways and beliefs are different.

[edelweiss pirate]

Originally Posted by thirdwave
Christianity has killed FAR FAR FAR more people that the occult has... and that's not bringing Islam and Judisum into it...

Three words:

Hitler, Stalin, Polpot....

+ I can't believe you accuse Rossus of lying ThirdWave....
Because they disagree with you and have a different experience you say they're 'lying' about it. Then you call them a hypocrite! Rossus was discussing the issue but instead you start attacking Rossus!

Thirdrate wrote:

LOL, your hypocrisy exposes you more than anything I can say.

For some reason I dont trust what you are saying... and I think the thread you started was actually a bit dodgy to start with.... the story was vague and odd.

I've seen you reply to Rossus... It's a disgrace the way you 'discuss' things....

You're back on ignore, you're an immature bully. I'm not getting sucked into your stupid world of division and them versus us and insults. There are better, nicer people to chat to.

[thirdwave]

not all good mates,
but 5 good mates with many long conversation..

and around 10 people who i met and had deeper conversation with,
but didn't know for longer than a few days.

and then also the people i ran into and only had superficial contact with.

So you are good mates with 5! occultis!.. and just know another 10... I still find that quite an impressive amount of people into magick who all appears brainwashed to you, I have to say I just don't think you are being entirely straight with this.... just sounds odd to me.



the stuff they were in: tarot, crystals, spirits
lol, now that's very insightful!

their problem: some quite crazy beliefs, some had strong unhappiness, some bit less strong unhappiness, some bit less crazy beliefs but still off track i think.

lol


why they did what they do was to become a happier person and "evolve spiritually"..
of which i don't think their "balancing of negative energy & positive energy" and other activities was very effective at.
well its been established that magick can harm if not full understanding on what you are doing is taken on board... what is interesting is how you are trying to project it all in that light...



others may have just been into manipulation of the material world,
so with these people i can't say that their activities are ineffective..
if they were not being used with aim for more happiness in the first place.

again it does not seem like you have any idea what Magicians do in general let alone what these supposed magicians where doing..

other than the people i met in real life,
i have read and heard from different sources who aren't christian per se,
that especially the contact with spirit-entities stuff like oujja tarot or channeling easily gets dodgy.

again it has already been noted and understood that the occult has its dangers that need to be accounted of.... but seeing as you have admitted to not being a christian though stand here defending the bible and attacking the occult, this does not really make your sources who are not christian any less biased than you EP... or anyone else who sternly defend Christianity though are "not christians"... and again you are going by other peoples views (who could be the worst freemasons of all) rather than your own incite.... get your self a modern occult book and read and gain some of your own knowledge.


i don't mean to say that even the "spirits-entities-stuff" can not be done in an absolute safe way,
neither do i say that "all occult is evil" because baron probably thinks that the thing i do would be "occult"
and therefor evil as well..
well then what are you saying then?.... that those who are inspired and into magick should walk away because others don't like it?... even though it might be fine?

but i suspect that some or many of the people who end up burning themselves
with stuff like "spirit entities" originally thought it was safe too...
when it wasn't really.
well a 3 year old baby thinks its safe to stick her finger in a plug socket... your point?


many people in the past have killed and done a lot of wrong, in the name of christianity,
but these people didn't practice a christian way of life...
lol,, more hypocrisy in the true christian sense.

so the real christians haven't killed anyone if you ask me.
you can't blame christianity for the things people like George Bush do to please their masters.
... your hypocrisy is just horrible.


i'm not saying that,
and if Baron is generalizing like that then that it is wrong action of him...
your just taking a different approach to Baron IMO.


but when he make wrong action, then again
does this justify your wrong action?
"eye for an eye" has ruined many discussion here,
and it has ruined more than just discussions on the internet.

its very hard to get points across when ignorant people are quite happy to be as ignorent as they can be to attack others views.... so there for its hard to debate in the perfect manner...



it would be better if we all just continue to respect eachother
even when our ways and beliefs are different.

this is true, but you have showed very little respect to those who are involved in or respect the occult... IMO.. despite a little bit of back peddling.. respect is recognised not announced.

[thirdwave]

Three words:

Hitler, Stalin, Polpot....

+ I can't believe you accuse Rossus of lying ThirdWave....
Because they disagree with you and have a different experience you say they're 'lying' about it. Then you call them a hypocrite! Rossus was discussing the issue but instead you start attacking Rossus!

LOL... give it a rest...

I have not attacked anyone... you are the one doing that :rolleyes:

this is a forum and I by no means take a strangers word on a forum as undeniable truth... IMO (which i hope you will permit me to have) I dont think she is being straight and gave my reasons for thinking so ....end of.. deal with it.

and you think those three people killed all those people in the name of the occult?? lol.... the people done the killing and ask your self in what name they where killing for ...?

and why stop at those three names?? #
9who where equality as tied to religion as they where any occult teachings)...... go on... go back in time even further.. to when Christianity was forced into our and other society's!!...

and try to take a good look at how you are letting something go WAY over your head when you do not even understand that Hitler, Stalin, Polpot....though evil, did not actually do the killing!.... it was the masses who done it ... and how many of them where into the occult!? ... keep that brain ticking and you might work this all out before your an old man....


I've seen you reply to Rossus... It's a disgrace the way you 'discuss' things....
If I wanted advice on how I debate you would be the last person I asked :rolleyes:

You're back on ignore, you're an immature bully. I'm not getting sucked into your stupid world of division and them versus us and insults. There are better, nicer people to chat to.
Well make your bloomin mind up!!.. Its not as if you debate anyway... you talk lots of hog wash then just wine like a little school girl.

:rolleyes:

[seanx]

Rossus wrote:
I think it is too cheap to continually put the "just-a-brainwashed-christian"-label on Baron Von Lotsov and the other persons who inspired by the bible.

Calling them "just-a-brainwashed-christian" is not only an insult that is totally irrelevant to the matters they discuss,

Give people credit for some intelligence.

These people have one agenda: to create fear and keep people
closed minded Or, in EP's case, to start daming you to hell and
eternal damanation.


It is the worst type of 'matrix chritainty'

I have no problem discussing christianity. As most people
here, I believe don't.

See the posts by phidee33 who makes some good points about
Chrisitianity especially it's occult nature or what it was originally
intended for before this Matrix Version took over.

That's the debate people want.

Not to be told by these judgemental know-alls what is good and
what is bad, what can be experienced and what can't be experienced
simply because these self-appointed 'Christians' know better.

lenejento wrote:

I think that unless you find out who you are and so vibrate so highly you become untouchable.

This is the core of the matter, I agree no matter what plane
you're on.

Like attracts like.

In fact, when Icke was asked in an interview why the Powers that
be didn't just kill him- he said they can't because he doesn't allow himself
to vibrate to THAT reality.

This is of course difficult and a moment-by-moment thing - that's a
why Elite always trying to lower people's vibrations so that they
will become more in tune with their fear- and control based frequencies.

And I agree there are dangers in the occult, or more accurately
going into other dimensions.

But is probably the way of the future.

We have explored all of this earth - the next great explorers will
probably be the people who will consciously explore these 'hidden'
dimensions.

There are probably infinite planes out there inhabited by
infinite types of entities.

So, you need to keep your vibration strong, clear and distinct so that
you don't attract the 'wrong crowd.'

The same in earth life - getting mixed up with the 'wrong crowd'.
As in life common sense and using your gut feeling is probably the key.

[montag]

I feel a lot better after ditching anyone locally who messed with the occult. None of them were honest about it and it was completely bad vibes. Indeed it almost drove me mad at what they used to got up to. Having severed contact with these people and generally staying out of it, even to investigate what was going on, I has been a massive weight off my mind.

Indeed I'd liken it to giving up cocaine or something like that. To start off with such a drug is a buzz but it quickly catches up with you and withdrawal and the psychosis it causes become worse in the negative than the high is in the positive. You see how it gets you, you have to do more and more just to keep yourself from feeling depressed from the withdrawal and you become obsessed.

This is exactly what it is like to have anything to do with the occult and I'm not even talking about personally being involved. Just by being in the presence of certain people is enough to affect you. You might find they have a sort of magnetic personality and you might find the women attractive and so on, but there is also a very dark side to it as you get sucked into it very gradually. I saw enough to get out of that circle of people but it took me a long time to realise. It was so well hidden that for years I didn't even know they were into the occult. It's kept very hidden from people they don't know.
Baron you seem to have far more of an obsession with the occult than anyone else on this forum that I know of, if you really had intentions of disassociating yourself from it then you'd stop talking about it, energy goes where attention flows.

[thirdwave]

Another thread ok I missed some then.
It's true you've become obsessed with Christianity by reading your posts and does get threads off topic bit to often.

Recently on this forum I am very passionate about the oppressive manner that christians and christian enthusiasts push... very imposing and arrogant and to be honest completely clueless...

But its very easy for one to take an anti christian stance here... there are so many trying to push its views on to people that its like having somone trying to ram a meal down your throat..



You're hallucinating posts that people never made.

You are contining a conflict paradigm that exists only in you and marpat's mind.

Y'see ThirdClass, this is what happens when you chat to masons, they fill your head full of bullshit that isn't real in order to estrange you from people who are just trying to give you advice about the road you're on.

LOL!!!

REALLY? ... next time I will have to remember that!!

The occult in itself is not evil,

Horraay!!!!! *claps*!! ... he is getting there slowley!! LOL

but the way you're going about it, by chatting to masons and promoting Crowley...is.
Your stuggle to deal with other peoples difforing views and free will and your constant attempts to make judgements based on pure thin air and just darn right un healthy ego, is the real example of how the occult can be dangerous and not for everyone... not that other gibberish you have spewed out.

You are precisely determined to follow the dark path and anyone who advises you against it is a Christian.

Self delusion, a trap of the weak mind.
Ok *righting it down in my note pad so I dont forget!*

thanks mate your a life saver! ;)!


Bulk up that brain Wave, a weak brain leaves an undefended soul (whoops, I said 'soul' I guess that makes me a Bible basher eh?)....

lol, your a funny old chap EP .... always to busy defending your ego to really see anything.... learn to let it go and it might not beat you up so much!

[krakhead]

The only difference between 'black' and 'white' magic must, IMO, be the INTENT behind it.

Want bad things to happen? Then you should be considered a practitioner of 'black' magic.

Want good things to happen? Well then, you 'must' be a practioner of magic of the 'white' variety!

But hang on.....

WHO decides if the outcome IS 'good' or 'bad'?

Hey! We're in the realm of personal moralism! W00t! And arguing that path leads nowhere...........

[rossus]

people into magick who all appears brainwashed to you
never said they were brainwashed dude

no point in discussing the other things cause you seem to misinterprete my words,
and continue the reckless attacks...

it's nothing personal bro
I've seen you reply to Rossus... It's a disgrace the way you 'discuss' things....
yea, he's being unfair.
discussing like this is impossible.

In fact, when Icke was asked in an interview why the Powers that
be didn't just kill him- he said they can't because he doesn't allow himself
to vibrate to THAT reality.
no offense to david icke,
because i think he is quite an "ok" dude.

but if he can vibrate himself to the state that the people who rule the world cannot kill him,
i would expect he would be able to heal his bad health, as well as perform other miracles...

but i don't see that happening?

[thirdwave]

never said they were brainwashed dude

no point in discussing the other things cause you seem to misinterprete my words,
and continue the reckless attacks...

Im not attacking you, Im attacking your point... and the fact that you ar now implying I am attacking you highlights my point...

I apologise, you did not use the word Brainwashed you used... Extremely Deluded.... :rolleyes:

it's nothing personal bro
Well then don't take it personally. :rolleyes:


yea, he's being unfair.
discussing like this is impossible.

... so once you have started the back track your points and not really make your point very clear you just start attacking me saying that I am getting personal?

lol




no offense to david icke,
because i think he is quite an "ok" dude.

but if he can vibrate himself to the state that the people who rule the world cannot kill him,
i would expect he would be able to heal his bad health, as well as perform other miracles...

but i don't see that happening?

lol, and here you show how you have no idea what David Icke and his works are about..

you are looking for a god to give you truth..

good luck!

if you want to debate properly... so try to be a bit more respectful to other views... and don't be so ignorant towards other movements and so hypocritical...

maybe you do not know you are doing it and its something that you need to address... go read through your posts..

[rossus]

I apologise, you did not use the word Brainwashed you used... Extremely Deluded.... :rolleyes:
i did not say all people into "spirit entities" are "extremely deluded"....
just some of the ones i have met.

i know cause the spirits feeds them false stories which they blindly believe.

for example some believe they make spiritual progression... ascending dimensions...
but they seem to just be getting more knotted inside.



and i too said that the ones that weren't extremely deluded,
were also deluded but to lesser degree.

but hey this just my opinion ofcourse.
you don't believe what christians do, probably because you also think they are "extremely deluded".

deluded is another word for illusioned, is it not?
there's nothing unrespectful about saying what i think is true and pointing to what i think is wrong.


Im not attacking you, Im attacking your point
...
... so once you have started the back track your points and not really make your point very clear you just start attacking me saying that I am getting personal?
i did not say you was attacking me...

though it does not matter if you attack me or my words,
"attacking" is unskillfull action... and it is this that makes decent communication with you almost impossible.

[seanx]

rossus wrote:

but if he can vibrate himself to the state that the people who rule the world cannot kill him, i would expect he would be able to heal his bad health, as well as perform other miracles...

Well judging by the amount of time, effort and sweat
he puts into his books ( how many pages was the conspiracy book?),
I have no doubt if he was more selfish and directed ALL that
energy towards himself and his health, he could no doubt 'heal his
bad health'.

But, then, not doubt you people would be complaining that he
should not so self-absorbed and stop thinking about himself!

[rossus]

But, then, not doubt you people would be complaining that he
should not so self-absorbed and stop thinking about himself!
my friend,
please point me to where exactly i was complaining about david icke.

i was just making a most simple observation.
who exactly do you mean with "you people" ?

as far i am concerned, there is only us.
i think a bit of skepticism about that claim of David Icke will not hurt anyone.

[seanx]

my friend,
please point me to where exactly i was complaining about david icke.

I was simply responding to your scarastic comment below:

Rossus wrote:

but if he can vibrate himself to the state that the people who rule the world cannot kill him, i would expect he would be able to heal his bad health, as well as perform other miracles...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism about
Icke's ideas - but having at go at his health and your
desire for him to perfrom a few miracles for you - is a bit cheap,
don't you think?

Especially when he could no doubt 'heal his bad health' if he directed
ALL his energy towards that and not his books.

[edelweiss pirate]

Here we go again round and round....

We have Seanx who circles the forum like a demented vulture looking for an argument and people to rip into and Thirdwave whose 'zoo of shit' view of the world appears so natural to him that he finds in Crowley the man who shares his own demented and misanthropic views...

And the rest of us who find this all a little odd are less than human, in fact we're Christians and as such have no human right at all anymore.

We're hypocrites, liars and more merely because we express opinions.

This is a shit party! Crap conversation and dullards being offensive to us.

There's better things to do with our time and I intend to do them instead.

[seanx]

EP wrote:

We have Seanx who circles the forum like a demented vulture looking for an argument and people to rip into and Thirdwave whose 'zoo of shit' view of the world appears so natural to him that he finds in Crowley the man who shares his own demented and misanthropic views...

And the rest of us who find this all a little odd are less than human, in fact we're Christians and as such have no human right at all anymore.

We're hypocrites, liars and more merely because we express opinions.

This is a shit party! Crap conversation and dullards being offensive to us.

There's better things to do with our time and I intend to do them instead.

Listen, sunshine - I know exactly the kind of person you are.

Now you promised to put me on your ignore button!

Now...would you please go and do it....

And give everybody on this forum a rest from your judgemental
'you're all going to hell' claptrap.

it's a bore.

Particularly your obsession with TW's desire to look with an
open-mind into all aspects of the mysteries of life.

Why the terrible need to want to keep him a rigid box of
beliefs?

I wonder?

[montag]

This threads getting a bit ranty, can we get back to discussing the topic instead of each others shortcomings, i don't want to have to rant this thread but I will if it continues.

[edelweiss pirate]

Fair 'nuff Monty...

I'll post the following warning as a last post. What he says is true and those who have read my posts over the years (in particular the insight I gave about Mason occultists tending to suffer violent deaths some while ago, (an intimation from my Nana who is a white witch) will know that what I've posted chimes with what was posted by this expert and practitioner many years ago), anyway, this isn't about me, this is about the very real danger of occult dabbling.

This is from your very own Eliphas Levi the famous 19th Century occultist.

My purpose here is not to 'win an argument' but just to save you a great deal of horror Paul. You really don't know at this stage what you're dealing with and you simply do not deserve the life you will have if you insist on getting more deeply involved in the occult. I mean this most sincerely and I hope at least you consider this. Again, this is a warning from 'one of your own'.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi

Theurgy: (from Greek θεουργία) describes the practice of rituals, sometimes seen as magical in nature, performed with the intention of invoking the action of one or more gods, especially with the goal of uniting with the divine, achieving henosis, and perfecting oneself.


" The experiences of theurgy and necromancy are
always disastrous to those who indulge in them. When
one has once stood on the threshold of the other world
one must die and almost invariably under terrible
conditions. First giddiness, then catalepsy followed
by madness. It is true that the atmosphere is disturbed,
the woodwork cracks and doors tremble and groan
in the presence of certain persons, after a series of
intoxicating acts. Weird sounds, sometimes bloody
signs, will appear spontaneously on paper or linen.
They are always the same and are classed by magicians
as Diabolical writings. The very sight of them induces
a state of convulsion or ecstacy in the mediums who
believe themselves to be seeing spirits. Thus Satan, the
Spirit of Evil, is transfigured for them into an angel
of light but, before they will manifest, these so-called
spirits require sympathetic excitement produced by
sexual intercourse on the part of their devotees. Hands
must be placed in hands, feet on feet, they must breathe
in each other's faces, these acts often being followed
by others of an obscene character. The initiates, revelling
in these forms of excesses believe themselves to
be the elect of God and the arbiters of destiny. They
are the successors of the fakirs of India. No warning
will save them........

" Theurgy is the highest degree of occultism. Necromancy
is limited to the summoning of dead souls, but
the Theurgists of the nineteenth century evoke entities
qualified by them as genii, angels of light, exalted spirits,
spirits of fire etc. In their meetings, scattered
throughout the world, they worship Lucifer. The three
mysterious letters J... B... M..., that the common
initiates see in the Masonic Temples, are reproduced
in the meeting rooms of the Luciferians, but they no
longer mean Jakin, Bohaz, Mahabone, as in the Lodges,
nor Jacques Bourguignon Molay, as with the Knights
Kadosch ; in Theurgy these three letters mean ; Jesus
Bethlemitus Maledictus. Theurgy is therefore pure
Satanism. " ........

" Moreover it is important to note that the Cabalists,
admitted to the mysteries of Theurgy, never mention
the word Satan. They look upon certain dissident
adepts who invoke the devil under the name of Satan
as heretics, whose system they call Goety or Black
Magic. They call their own practices Theurgy or White
Magic. "

Good night and god bless everyone.

[thirdwave]

i did not say you was attacking me...

thats funny because when I read this

"no point in discussing the other things cause you seem to misinterprete my words,
and continue the reckless attacks..."

I kind of assumed you were...

though it does not matter if you attack me or my words,
"attacking" is unskillfull action... and it is this that makes decent communication with you almost impossible.

I think the fact you no longer even have a point is enough to highlight my point.

I wont repeat my self.

[marpat]

I feel a lot better after ditching anyone locally who messed with the occult. None of them were honest about it and it was completely bad vibes. Indeed it almost drove me mad at what they used to got up to. Having severed contact with these people and generally staying out of it, even to investigate what was going on, I has been a massive weight off my mind.

Indeed I'd liken it to giving up cocaine or something like that. To start off with such a drug is a buzz but it quickly catches up with you and withdrawal and the psychosis it causes become worse in the negative than the high is in the positive. You see how it gets you, you have to do more and more just to keep yourself from feeling depressed from the withdrawal and you become obsessed.

This is exactly what it is like to have anything to do with the occult and I'm not even talking about personally being involved. Just by being in the presence of certain people is enough to affect you. You might find they have a sort of magnetic personality and you might find the women attractive and so on, but there is also a very dark side to it as you get sucked into it very gradually. I saw enough to get out of that circle of people but it took me a long time to realise. It was so well hidden that for years I didn't even know they were into the occult. It's kept very hidden from people they don't know.

Maybe the real problem is you messing with drugs and leaving yourself open to nasty things that float around on the subtle planes.


White magic is magic that is in harmony with the flow of life, and helps it to grow and evolve.

Black magic is magic that opposes the flow of life and tries to suppress it growth by holding onto ideas that are retrograde to human development.

Only idiots tie it all together and make a boogy man.

[marpat]

Oh dear. I didn't know we had gone so remedial.

Black is something that is obviously dodgy and white is something entirely innocent. That's why when people get married the woman wears a white wedding dress. When people get things mixed up to such a degree that they can't tell the difference between total opposites then they are fucked up. Is that clear now or would you like me to teach you what each one of the above words means?

Poor expression

[marpat]

rossus

Basically what happens is pretty much what you say. Whatever one's intention is to start with these supernatural entities take over the soul. It happens gradually, sometimes over many years but sometimes much quicker. A weak soul is especially vulnerable but eventually anyone could screw up doing this sort of thing.

I have never met anyone who has truly benefited, its just illusion. A feeling thing, maybe a bit of a buzz at the time but like a drug it catches up on you sooner or later. Also it distracts from real things in life like real personal achievements and goals. That's what I always recommend, to focus on doing something that has purpose and meaning. That's what will keep people sane. I'm not saying everyone should go to church every Sunday, people just plant that label on me. I'm saying stay away from occult stuff and maybe six months down the line you will actually notice a change. I did.

Maybe thats because you were doing it wrong. You cant accuse everybody of being as inept as yourself and then warn people to stay away. Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

If an occultist is trying to unite their mind to the highest light, or their true self, then how can this be bad? If they are using magic for the betterment of humanity, for healing people, for helping people then how can this be bad?

The only real difference between magic and most religions is that religions tell people how to live whereas occultsist will take life on with less barriers. Religion and magic uses prayer/ invocation/ evocation, ritual, etc. so in practical terms where is the difference?

[ichi wa zen]

The only difference between 'black' and 'white' magic must, IMO, be the INTENT behind it.

Want bad things to happen? Then you should be considered a practitioner of 'black' magic.

Want good things to happen? Well then, you 'must' be a practioner of magic of the 'white' variety!

But hang on.....

WHO decides if the outcome IS 'good' or 'bad'?

Hey! We're in the realm of personal moralism! W00t! And arguing that path leads nowhere...........

Great post!

[eternal_spirit]

The only real difference between magic and most religions is that religions tell people how to live whereas occultsist will take life on with less barriers. Religion and magic uses prayer/ invocation/ evocation, ritual, etc. so in practical terms where is the difference?

Part right part wrong.

Occultists follow rules out of books too. And there's nothing to stop someone openly or in private studying/practing both. Or from accepting or rejecting which parts out of books they like or dislike.

[marpat]

The only real difference between magic and most religions is that religions tell people how to live whereas occultsist will take life on with less barriers. Religion and magic uses prayer/ invocation/ evocation, ritual, etc. so in practical terms where is the difference?

Part right part wrong.

Occultists follow rules out of books too. And there's nothing to stop someone openly or in private studying/practing both. Or from accepting or rejecting which parts out of books they like or dislike.

How can a person be doing both? the white magician is dedicated to the service of humanity and the black magician is only interested in ego empowerment. You are either one or the other.

Of course they have their own rules. Rules of conduct and practice are laid down to try and prevent situations such as when idiots dabble because they want to do magic without any learning or effort than find themselves in the shit and harrased by negative forces, etc. Such things can and do happen and serve only to give magic a bad name, fuelled by the paranoid failure of the dabblers and wash outs.

[thirdwave]

How can a person be doing both? the white magician is dedicated to the service of humanity and the black magician is only interested in ego empowerment. You are either one or the other.

Of course they have their own rules. Rules of conduct and practice are laid down to try and prevent situations such as when idiots dabble because they want to do magic without any learning or effort than find themselves in the shit and harrased by negative forces, etc. Such things can and do happen and serve only to give magic a bad name, fuelled by the paranoid failure of the dabblers and wash outs.

I may be wrong here but I thought when it comes down to black magic ...in general it is not always selfish as such...

It is basically when you try to effect something for your own will.... maybe that will effect other people..

where White magic is for the will of nature so to speak...

its positive and negative but it does not always mean that black magic is used for negative intent....

this is how I have seen it anyway. For sure evil people will go for black magick as they obviously want something that they can use to reap what they want.... but good people can still use black magick if they felt it was really needed...

[eternal_spirit]

How can a person be doing both? the white magician is dedicated to the service of humanity and the black magician is only interested in ego empowerment. You are either one or the other.

Of course they have their own rules. Rules of conduct and practice are laid down to try and prevent situations such as when idiots dabble because they want to do magic without any learning or effort than find themselves in the shit and harrased by negative forces, etc. Such things can and do happen and serve only to give magic a bad name, fuelled by the paranoid failure of the dabblers and wash outs.

You defy logic go back and read my reply it's straight forward but I'll run it by you again.


:rolleyes:
Easy you can do both you can study practice both religious texts and occult texts

Also in reply to your statement, some do practice black and white magic.

Crowley is said to have turned on his teacher Mathers and they had a psychic war of curses etc, Mathers by some accounts was killed this way.

The reality would have been Mathers died by natural courses not curses, or he may even have been poisened to make Crowley look like some powerful magician, of course we can only speculate on the cause of Mather's death.

Demonology of the Kabbalah isn't about white magic, Crowley and many occultists practiced and advocated this.


Yes Crowley was a complete and utter idiot, he got possessed by Choronzon the demon which some say contributed to his downfall, although he was lowest of the low and was always on a downward spiral most of his life.

Laws of conduct, that's a laugh you've been telling us about do what thou will ever since you arrived here.

[marpat]

You defy logic go back and read my reply it's straight forward but I'll run it by you again.


:rolleyes:
Easy you can do both you can study practice both religious texts and occult texts

Also in reply to your statement, some do practice black and white magic.

Crowley is said to have turned on his teacher Mathers and they had a psychic war of curses etc, Mathers by some accounts was killed this way.

The reality would have been Mathers died by natural courses not curses, or he may even have been poisened to make Crowley look like some powerful magician, of course we can only speculate on the cause of Mather's death.

Demonology of the Kabbalah isn't about white magic, Crowley and many occultists practiced and advocated this.


Yes Crowley was a complete and utter idiot, he got possessed by Choronzon the demon which some say contributed to his downfall, although he was lowest of the low and was always on a downward spiral most of his life.

Laws of conduct, that's a laugh you've been telling us about do what thou will ever since you arrived here.

And yet you did not learn the lessons of others, dabbling and ending up at the mercy of negative spirits. Cant say I have been in that boat myself.

Crowley and many other occultist also advocated invocation of Gods and angels. Have you read Crowleys ideas on the Goetia? he considers the demons invoked to be nothing more than aspects of a persons brain. He saw the Goetia as a method of tapping into a persons own latent genius. Doesn't sound too evil does it.


Is it wrong to tell people that they should do their true will? to be against this means that you dont want people to do what is true to their being, meaning that you are a distorter of peoples ideas and will, you are an oppressor and deceiver. And you also were against the freedom embodied in Liber Oz. The evidence is piling up that you are not interested in the freedom of individual minds and that your main interest is to try and turn people against subject that can help to free their minds. All that you promote is information designed to frighten and scare people.

religious texts are occult texts that have been watered down for mass consumption. All of the stuff that can be used to empower people has been removed from religious books and hidden in secret techniques. This is why organised religion tries to suppress magic, they are afraid of losing their grips on the minds of people, they are afraid that people will not require the church as the mediator to God. You are fighting their cause for them by trying to close the doors on mental and spiritual freedom down with your scare stories.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL I'm fine no problems with any spirits, besides how can anyone really know the difference between spirits/halucanation/lucid dreams/man made technologies that project holographic spirits/hypnosis.

The intelligence agencies and Military and Crowley was a double agent for MI6 and for all we know they may have had these technolgies then.

Your occult religion came from the Preisthoods of other religions it's all the same sources, so it's you who's working for the church and the priesthoods.

And if you wanna worship Pagan greek deites (Lucifer/pan/Baphomet etc) that people sacraficed humans and animals to you're a sad act.

Just a reminder for the readers Marpat claims to be in the OTO.

The classic prototype of such an egregore is Baphomet, the alleged
egregore of the Templars, who was worshipped in the form of a bust.

An `egregore' is a magical entity that is artificially created by
the focused thoughts and desires of a medium (analogous in many ways
to Tibetan tulpas and the Golems of kabbalisitc/Cabalistic Judaism) Supposedly a medium or statue could then serve
as a tenant for the egregore, nourished by the sexual life-powers of
the members.

The blood (or excrements) attract the
spirits/demons while the sperm keeps them alive.



Crowley played around with different sexmagickal methods. One of
the OTO's secrets is the adoration of the idol Baphomet of the old
Templars. While the splinter-group, the Fraternitas Saturni
definitely tried (and still tries) to incarnate Baphomet in flesh,
Quote:

Crowley's VIII. unveiled the "pupil" that masturbating on a sigil
of a demon or meditating upon the image of a phallus would bring
power or communication with a (or one's own) divine being/Super
Ego. The IX. labelled heterosexual intercourse where the sexual
secrets were sucked out of the vagina and when not consumed (when
considered holy) put on a sigil to attract this or that demon to
fullfill the pertinent wish/order. In his "Emblems and Mode of
Use" Crowley describes the method of how to smear sperm on a
talisman/sigil in order to attract for example money.

So, basically it's about giving your energy away to feed demons.

Or it's alot of superstitious hogwash designed by Guru perverts to get sex from their pupils with lies that if you follow the rituals the demons or your higher self will do your bidding and get you what you want.

Another prison mind religion and form of controlling people's minds and lives. Keeping them busy for many years wanting to know their master gurus secrets doh!

More masonic spiel and carrot on a stick bilge and lies, while them and their associates are buy fixing the interest rates and adding more laws to the Masonic system and taking your freedoms away while you dibble and dabble with superstitious nonsense.

They can make money by selling their books/rituals/degress/and occult props/items.

Brought to you by TPTB the Elite's Culture creators.

[eternal_spirit]

BTW Marpat you claim to be in the Military so much for you promoting freedom of others.

Tell us about the rituals you do with OTO?

Or have I just let the cat out the bag with my previous post......

[serpentoffire]

LOL I'm fine no problems with any spirits, besides how can anyone really know the difference between spirits/halucanation/lucid dreams/man made technologies that project holographic spirits/hypnosis.

The intelligence agencies and Military and Crowley was a double agent for MI6 and for all we know they may have had these technolgies then.

Your occult religion came from the Preisthoods of other religions it's all the same sources, so it's you who's working for the church and the priesthoods.

And if you wanna worship Pagan greek deites (Lucifer/pan/Baphomet etc) that people sacraficed humans and animals to you're a sad act.

Just a reminder for the readers Marpat claims to be in the OTO.

The classic prototype of such an egregore is Baphomet, the alleged
egregore of the Templars, who was worshipped in the form of a bust.

An `egregore' is a magical entity that is artificially created by
the focused thoughts and desires of a medium (analogous in many ways
to Tibetan tulpas and the Golems of kabbalisitc/Cabalistic Judaism) Supposedly a medium or statue could then serve
as a tenant for the egregore, nourished by the sexual life-powers of
the members.

The blood (or excrements) attract the
spirits/demons while the sperm keeps them alive.



Crowley played around with different sexmagickal methods. One of
the OTO's secrets is the adoration of the idol Baphomet of the old
Templars. While the splinter-group, the Fraternitas Saturni
definitely tried (and still tries) to incarnate Baphomet in flesh,
Quote:

Crowley's VIII. unveiled the "pupil" that masturbating on a sigil
of a demon or meditating upon the image of a phallus would bring
power or communication with a (or one's own) divine being/Super
Ego. The IX. labelled heterosexual intercourse where the sexual
secrets were sucked out of the vagina and when not consumed (when
considered holy) put on a sigil to attract this or that demon to
fullfill the pertinent wish/order. In his "Emblems and Mode of
Use" Crowley describes the method of how to smear sperm on a
talisman/sigil in order to attract for example money.

So, basically it's about giving your energy away to feed demons.

Or it's alot of superstitious hogwash designed by Guru perverts to get sex from their pupils with lies that if you follow the rituals the demons or your higher self will do your bidding and get you what you want.

Another prison mind religion and form of controlling people's minds and lives. Keeping them busy for many years wanting to know their master gurus secrets doh!

More masonic spiel and carrot on a stick bilge and lies, while them and their associates are buy fixing the interest rates and adding more laws to the Masonic system and taking your freedoms away while you dibble and dabble with superstitious nonsense.

They can make money by selling their books/rituals/degress/and occult props/items.

Brought to you by TPTB the Elite's Culture creators.

I read something similar in "Ermetic Initiation" of Franz Bardon. It's possible to create elemental entities. The same description in "High magic rituals" of Eliphas Levi.
It's called TEURGY, the ability to create Gods. For example YHVH is an egregor created by Moses using teurgy. He empowered YHVH using jews energy.

[eternal_spirit]

I read something similar in "Ermetic Initiation" of Franz Bardon. It's possible to create elemental entities. The same description in "High magic rituals" of Eliphas Levi.
It's called TEURGY, the ability to create Gods. For example YHVH is an egregor created by Moses using teurgy. He empowered YHVH using jews energy.

Interesting have alook here
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=463703&postcount=35

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=462118&postcount=19

[marpat]

BTW Marpat you claim to be in the Military so much for you promoting freedom of others.

Tell us about the rituals you do with OTO?

Or have I just let the cat out the bag with my previous post......

Ha ha. I am getting used to you posting that same post all the time. Even if a thousand people believed the crap you post it would only imply that those people were stupid. It would not alter the real facts.

I have shown by your own posts you hate others freedom and when I pointed the fact out you go on the attack. If people want to find out what the OTO is really like then they should join. If they dont like it they can leave, or they can tell everybody that they are wrong and try and convert them. The challenge is set before you, join the OTO and then tell people about it rather than trawling the lowest of internet to search for evil opinions. The fact that you spend so much time trying to prove what is no more than you own opinion proves that you have an unhealthy fixation with evil and manipulation. If you were a REAL researcher then you would join the organisation and find out what it is like.

What is your opinion on David Icke hanging out with people who sacrifice animals?

[marpat]

I read something similar in "Ermetic Initiation" of Franz Bardon. It's possible to create elemental entities. The same description in "High magic rituals" of Eliphas Levi.
It's called TEURGY, the ability to create Gods. For example YHVH is an egregor created by Moses using teurgy. He empowered YHVH using jews energy.

Potentially possible but not easy to prove. I dont think that people create the gods they just build the forms for the powers to embody which them acts like a link between the abstract power and the persons mind.

A person could build a thousand forms to represent love or goodness but in the end they are all just symbolic expressions of the same powers. Most humans cannot create anything useful so for them to create a god would be something extraordinary.

[serpentoffire]

Potentially possible but not easy to prove. I dont think that people create the gods they just build the forms for the powers to embody which them acts like a link between the abstract power and the persons mind.

A person could build a thousand forms to represent love or goodness but in the end they are all just symbolic expressions of the same powers. Most humans cannot create anything useful so for them to create a god would be something extraordinary.

I have a book where there are the exercise to build elemental entities. You can program these entities for your purpose using only the imagination and your built-in magic stick (the kundalini). This is very similar to The Matrix movie where persons and agents are only programs in a holographic world. Exactly what Hindus said about MAYA.

[marpat]

I have a book where there are the exercise to build elemental entities. You can program these entities for your purpose using only the imagination and your built-in magic stick (the kundalini). This is very similar to The Matrix movie where persons and agents are only programs in a holographic world. Exactly what Hindus said about MAYA.

Yes but what may be happening is that you are only creating the mental form. The energy that lives within that form my not be human. My understanding of this is that elemental forces can be used to ensoul thought forms to save the magician from having to use their own power and concentration. The ensouled thought form can then achieve some level of independance but is still tied to the mind of the originator. They do have some objective reality but are still only temporary manifestations and therefore maya

[eternal_spirit]

Ha ha. I am getting used to you posting that same post all the time. Even if a thousand people believed the crap you post it would only imply that those people were stupid. It would not alter the real facts.

I have shown by your own posts you hate others freedom and when I pointed the fact out you go on the attack. If people want to find out what the OTO is really like then they should join. If they dont like it they can leave, or they can tell everybody that they are wrong and try and convert them. The challenge is set before you, join the OTO and then tell people about it rather than trawling the lowest of internet to search for evil opinions. The fact that you spend so much time trying to prove what is no more than you own opinion proves that you have an unhealthy fixation with evil and manipulation. If you were a REAL researcher then you would join the organisation and find out what it is like.

What is your opinion on David Icke hanging out with people who sacrifice animals?

Another cop out. All you've done since you arrived here is have a go. So, no point in debating you, it's becoming a waste of time...you avoid the question and the topic which was relevant to this thread.

You skirt around the edges of the issue and hardly even skim the surface of the topics and don't say anything of use to man nor beast. Just the same boring spiel about follow your religion and you'll find truth yawn blah :rolleyes:

And if you're an insider you could enlighten us to what goes on from your own experiences...

What degree you are would help.

I know too much about your religion and you don't like it.

LOL You're the fake.

Icke doesn't worship no Baphomet or pervert kundalini like your religion does.

Besides it's your Yaweh/Lucifer worshipers who screwed the African people over the most.

Have fun with your demons...likes attract.

[serpentoffire]

Yes but what may be happening is that you are only creating the mental form. The energy that lives within that form my not be human. My understanding of this is that elemental forces can be used to ensoul thought forms to save the magician from having to use their own power and concentration. The ensouled thought form can then achieve some level of independance but is still tied to the mind of the originator. They do have some objective reality but are still only temporary manifestations and therefore maya

This is the book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/301820/Initiation-into-Hermetics-by-Franz-Bardon

and this:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/301826/The-Practice-of-Magical-Evocation-by-Franz-Bardon

Magic well explained (a sort of Magic for Dummies)

[marpat]

Another cop out. All you've done since you arrived here is have a go. So, no point in debating you, it's becoming a waste of time...you avoid the question and the topic which was relevant to this thread.

You skirt around the edges of the issue and hardly even skim the surface of the topics and don't say anything of use to man nor beast. Just the same boring spiel about follow your religion and you'll find truth yawn blah :rolleyes:

And if you're an insider you could enlighten us to what goes on from your own experiences...

What degree you are would help.

I know too much about your religion and you don't like it.

LOL You're the fake.

Icke doesn't worship no Baphomet or pervert kundalini like your religion does.

Besides it's your Yaweh/Lucifer worshipers who screwed the African people over the most.

Have fun with your demons...likes attract.

I guess this mean you are afraid to accept the challenge and find out what the organisation is like from the inside. You are a moral coward, claiming that you are a researcher of occult abuse but you refuse to infiltrate the very groups you constantly abuse. I believe you are afraid that if you wne to their meetings that you would find nothing at all to back up your claims. You must be a bit retarded if you think I will talk plainly about things that you are so obviously hostile to. You could be the insider but instead you choose to stay out in the darkness and sling you blind mans shit about. Why is this, are you afraid something will happen to you? as a person who believes magic is false then there should be nothing to worry about and as your are now a master exorcist after you previous dabbling you should be well able to control whatever attacks you.

Well you must agree that David Icke does associate with Credo a lot and is happy to accept his ideas and friendship. It is also a fact that the Zulu sacrifice animals to their 'ancestors', who could conceivably be reptilians or evil spirits. There is Icke telling us all about Credo and his traditions when in fact they spill animal blood. If Icke was so against this then why does he associate with the shaman of a tribe that use such a practise? as the shaman of the tribe he probably does the killing himself and would be no stranger to it.

Please explain how kundalini is perverted by a person doing their true will? as a person who claims to have mastered kundalini you must know what you are talking about. Personally I dont believe in kundalini and think it is a metaphor of the spiritual journey.

Like I said before, the challenge is there for you to meet it. If you are too cowardly to put you money where your mouth is then stay in the dark and ignorant place that you currently occupy and continue to make your stupid accusations and post you blind mans links.

[serpentoffire]

Personally I dont believe in kundalini and think it is a metaphor of the spiritual journey.
I'm afraid for you man. Kundalini, chakras and all vedic teaching exist.
I have all chakras opened and kundalini risen and I never had a minute of yoga. The kundalini is the ancient cadaceus of Mercury, the stick of wizard. It is the way to connect our body to divine and natural worlds (aka uranic and telluric, aka upper or lower vibrational frequency levels). The seven chakras are the ancient seven planets or seven angels or seven demons or seven sky.
Kundalini and chakras are the real base for each ritual of magic.

[marpat]

I'm afraid for you man. Kundalini, chakras and all vedic teaching exist.
I have all chakras opened and kundalini risen and I never had a minute of yoga. The kundalini is the ancient cadaceus of Mercury, the stick of wizard. It is the way to connect our body to divine and natural worlds (aka uranic and telluric, aka upper or lower vibrational frequency levels). The seven chakras are the ancient seven planets or seven angels or seven demons or seven sky.
Kundalini and chakras are the real base for each ritual of magic.

But the more magic systems you study the more you will find that the seven chakra theory is not consistent. I have some Buddhist texts that describe five chakras, the lowest being air, followed by earth, water, fire then spirit. Some of the earliest Hindu texts do not even refer to the chakras as this knowledge belongs to the tantras.

There are many more systems that differ on the surface but what you do find is that the ideas and concepts they express are the same at a deeper level.

Why are you afraid for me? I have developed beyond needing to believe in a specific set of ideas. To be attached to ideas is wrong as they only serve to express ideas not show absolute reality, which is beyond mental expression. The journey of kundalini through the chakras is nothing more than a symbolic journey to spiritual unity. The experiences on the way would happen whether you try to raise the kundalini force or not.

[barbitone]

Classic Baron.

Put and label EVERYTHING that is outside the beliefs of his Christian
program as 'occult'.

As 'dangerous'. 'Bad'.


Occult simply means 'hidden'


It involves the use of will, intention and energy.

It is neutral.


What is important is the INTENTION, the MOTIVE behind it.


So a native American Hopi woman using her will, intention and the
wholeenergy of her being to invoke, to decree an abundance of
rain to fall on her land to feed and nourish her people -is 'occult'
and according to you is 'bad'


But that cannot be compared to a group of Illuminati Elite
perverting the same forces of Will, intention and energy
to create a fear- based outcome that is based on forcing their will
on other people.


Anyway, you need not worry about these people.


The thoughtforms they send out become 'alive' in the mental
and astral realms.


According to psychics, they can be horrific to experience on that
level. They are literally 'real events' that have been created.


But what you send out is what you get back.


And the demons that these people always seem to experience
at the end of their lives, and after they die is simply them experiencing
their own thoughtforms.

The law in action. No judgement - simply the law in action.


Whereas the experience of the Hopi woman when she dies
will be one of abundance and joy. Experiencing in adundance what
she sent out


So loading everything into one label - occult - and judging it
bad - is simply your 'programming' speaking.

Total nonsense.

Couldn't have said it better myself..:D I can't believe this rant has not been moved to the rant room yet, I mean :rolleyes: The Baron is slagging off "the occult" again, as usual! LOL

Alchemy is a beautiful art by the way. Inner combined with outer great work, harnessing powers of above and below, the 3, principles and the 4 elements.
3 +4 = 7

The seven seals corresponding with seven heavenly bodies.
Seven colors of the rainbow that lead to the pot of gold.
The seven notes of a musical scale......

Raise the octave.:)