Russian tanks 'rolling into Georgian breakaway'

[Anders Lindman]

"TBLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Russian television Friday showed a convoy of Russian tanks and said they were heading into the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia as escalating tensions over the region threatened to boil into full blown conflict."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html

[rise_to_addiction]

I'm surprised how little main stream media attention this has been getting.

Looks like Georgia have been hitting South Ossetia very hard and very quickly despite Russia warning them not to having threatened to respond in aid of South Ossetia. Georgia still went full steam ahead. Russia send in the airforce and Georgia shoots 2 of their planes down. All in a days work!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7548715.stm

If anyone has a link to the 2 plane attacks that would be great. Not seen it confirmed as yet.

[Anders Lindman]

"Georgia Claims It Shot Down 2 Russian Jets

"I must also tell you that Georgian forces have downed two Russian jet fighters over Georgia's territory," he added without giving further details."

http://www.wolz.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=4069069

:eek:

[qeiii]

I didn't want to be right, but I said on this forum a few days ago that while the world was looking to China something might happen elsewhere. According to BBC news Georgia has asked USA for support!!! Stand by for USA versus Russia.

This is not good by any standards and I agree with rise that the MSM are not giving very much prominence to this. Too busy with the sun worship ceremony in Beijing in the centre of an eye. Yuck

[element]

I didn't want to be right, but I said on this forum a few days ago that while the world was looking to China something might happen elsewhere. According to BBC news Georgia has asked USA for support!!! Stand by for USA versus Russia.

This is not good by any standards and I agree with rise that the MSM are not giving very much prominence to this. Too busy with the sun worship ceremony in Beijing in the centre of an eye. Yuck

You may be right:eek:

[dangermouse]

I didn't want to be right, but I said on this forum a few days ago that while the world was looking to China something might happen elsewhere. According to BBC news Georgia has asked USA for support!!! Stand by for USA versus Russia.

This is not good by any standards and I agree with rise that the MSM are not giving very much prominence to this. Too busy with the sun worship ceremony in Beijing in the centre of an eye. Yuck

:eek:

[Anders Lindman]

Video with suspect CIA puppet:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/08/intv.saakashvili.cnn

Watch from about 1:10 where Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili is asked if he has been in contact with Russian authorities or with Vladimir Putin. Notice the strange pause before Saakashvili answers: no. Why hasn't he been in contact with the Russian authorities? Because he is guilty of a false flag attack against his own people?

[seeker1111]

I didn't want to be right, but I said on this forum a few days ago that while the world was looking to China something might happen elsewhere. According to BBC news Georgia has asked USA for support!!! Stand by for USA versus Russia.

This is not good by any standards and I agree with rise that the MSM are not giving very much prominence to this. Too busy with the sun worship ceremony in Beijing in the centre of an eye. Yuck

yikes...:eek:

guess we better be watching everywhere but the olympics...what a great distraction on a global level.

[Anders Lindman]

Hmm... I checked some Russian news. It says that Georgia attacked South Ossetia!!! :confused::confused::confused::eek::eek::eek: Check this out:

"MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered that humanitarian aid be provided to people affected by the ongoing conflict between Georgia and its breakaway region of South Ossetia, the Kremlin said on Friday.

Georgia launched a large-scale offensive against the province during the night, using tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery and infantry.

"The president has instructed Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu and Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev to provide humanitarian aid to people affected by the escalation of the Georgian-South Ossetian conflict," the Kremlin press service said.

According to various reports, a large part of the republic's capital, Tskhinvali, has been destroyed. South Ossetian authorities are reporting numerous civilian casualties. There are also casualties among peacekeepers.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said: "A Russian humanitarian convoy has come under fire. Panic is growing among the local population, and the number of refugees is increasing. There are reports of ethnic cleansing in some villages... The situation is ripe for a humanitarian catastrophe."

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115904228.html

[seeker1111]

Hmm... I checked some Russian news. It says that Georgia attacked South Ossetia!!! :confused::confused::confused::eek::eek::eek: Check this out:

"MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered that humanitarian aid be provided to people affected by the ongoing conflict between Georgia and its breakaway region of South Ossetia, the Kremlin said on Friday.

Georgia launched a large-scale offensive against the province during the night, using tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery and infantry.

"The president has instructed Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu and Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev to provide humanitarian aid to people affected by the escalation of the Georgian-South Ossetian conflict," the Kremlin press service said.

According to various reports, a large part of the republic's capital, Tskhinvali, has been destroyed. South Ossetian authorities are reporting numerous civilian casualties. There are also casualties among peacekeepers.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said: "A Russian humanitarian convoy has come under fire. Panic is growing among the local population, and the number of refugees is increasing. There are reports of ethnic cleansing in some villages... The situation is ripe for a humanitarian catastrophe."

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115904228.html
wow...im at work now so can't flip on the tv but is this getting any news coverage??

[Anders Lindman]

More Russian news:

"Medvedev vows punishment for killers of Russians in S.Ossetia

MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - President Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that Russia will punish those guilty of killing Russian nationals in South Ossetia, where Georgia has been waging an offensive to regain control of the breakaway region.

Speaking at an emergency Russian Security Council session focused on the violence, Medvedev said: "As president, I am obliged to protect the lives of our citizens wherever they may be. We will not let those guilty of killing our nationals evade punishment."

Medvedev said civilians are being killed in South Ossetia, most of whom have Russian citizenship. "Georgian troops in fact staged an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia last night."

Georgia launched a large-scale offensive against the breakaway province during the night, using tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery and infantry."

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080808/115900078.html

[Anders Lindman]

wow...im at work now so can't flip on the tv but is this getting any news coverage??

English media hasn't mentioned (as far as I know at the moment) that: "Georgian troops in fact staged an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia last night." :eek::eek::eek: I checked the Swedish news and it says the same thing as the U.S. and UK media. :eek:

Is this evidence for massive propaganda? :confused: Somehow I don't trust Georgia's president. Nor can the Russian president or the Russian media be trusted.

[seeker1111]

English media hasn't mentioned (as far as I know at the moment) that: "Georgian troops in fact staged an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia last night." :eek::eek::eek: I checked the Swedish news and it says the same thing as the U.S. and UK media. :eek:

Is this evidence for massive propaganda? :confused: Somehow I don't trust Georgia's president. Nor can the Russian president or the Russian media be trusted.

it's frustrating to not know which news source to trust! if any...

sad about all those civilians dying. :( when will this senseless killing end??

[Anders Lindman]

it's frustrating to not know which news source to trust! if any...

sad about all those civilians dying. :( when will this senseless killing end??

They are trying to solve the problem (or is this just a show for the public):

"Bush urges Russia and Georgia to resolve South Ossetian dispute

The White House on Friday urged Russia and Georgia to resolve their dispute over South Ossetia peacefully.

"We urge restraint on all sides - that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters."

http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/bush-putin-1.jpg

http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/08-08-2008/106034-georgia-0

[seeker1111]

They are trying to solve the problem (or is this just a show for the public):

"Bush urges Russia and Georgia to resolve South Ossetian dispute

The White House on Friday urged Russia and Georgia to resolve their dispute over South Ossetia peacefully.

"We urge restraint on all sides - that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters."

http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/bush-putin-1.jpg

http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/08-08-2008/106034-georgia-0

ah yes...so bush can look like the hero in this case if they 'resolve their differences'

[Anders Lindman]

English media hasn't mentioned (as far as I know at the moment) that: "Georgian troops in fact staged an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia last night."

I take that back. For example: "Russian tanks and troops pushing in after a Georgian assault on the disputed area"

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/08/AR2008080800285.html?nav=rss_world

So they do report that, although in a very minor way.

[qeiii]

Am I being thick but why is Russia coming in to help Ossieta when Russia has nothing to do with Ossieta. Ossieta is trying to be independant of Georgia!! Why is Russia getting in on the act? It has to be staged - otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

And is it pure coincidence that USA fleet is nearby. No. This all the hallmarks of PRS/false flag written all over it.

[Anders Lindman]

Am I being thick but why is Russia coming in to help Ossieta when Russia has nothing to do with Ossieta. Ossieta is trying to be independant of Georgia!! Why is Russia getting in on the act? It has to be staged - otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

And is it pure coincidence that USA fleet is nearby. No. This all the hallmarks of PRS/false flag written all over it.

According to Russian news:

President Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that Russia will punish those guilty of killing Russian nationals in South Ossetia, where Georgia has been waging an offensive to regain control of the breakaway region.

Speaking at an emergency Russian Security Council session focused on the violence, Medvedev said: "As president, I am obliged to protect the lives of our citizens wherever they may be. We will not let those guilty of killing our nationals evade punishment."

But I guess you are right that Russia wouldn't bother to 'rescue' Ossetia if they didn't have anything to gain.

[moonfly]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400321,00.html



PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA DMITRY MEDVEDEV Statement on the Situation in South Ossetia

August 8, 2008

The Kremlin, Moscow

As you know, Russia has maintained and continues to maintain a presence on Georgian territory on an absolutely lawful basis, carrying out its peacekeeping mission in accordance with the agreements concluded. We have always considered maintaining the peace to be our paramount task. Russia has historically been a guarantor for the security of the peoples of the Caucasus, and this remains true today.

Last night, Georgian troops committed what amounts to an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and the civilian population in South Ossetia. What took place is a gross violation of international law and of the mandates that the international community gave Russia as a partner in the peace process.

Georgias acts have caused loss of life, including among Russian peacekeepers. The situation reached the point where Georgian peacekeepers opened fire on the Russian peacekeepers with whom they are supposed to work together to carry out their mission of maintaining peace in this region. Civilians, women, children and old people, are dying today in South Ossetia, and the majority of them are citizens of the Russian Federation.

In accordance with the Constitution and the federal laws, as President of the Russian Federation it is my duty to protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they may be.

It is these circumstances that dictate the steps we will take now. We will not allow the deaths of our fellow citizens to go unpunished. The perpetrators will receive the punishment they deserve.

[dangermouse]

Am I being thick but why is Russia coming in to help Ossieta when Russia has nothing to do with Ossieta. Ossieta is trying to be independant of Georgia!! Why is Russia getting in on the act? It has to be staged - otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

And is it pure coincidence that USA fleet is nearby. No. This all the hallmarks of PRS/false flag written all over it.

Well the separatists in Osseita are heavily backed up by Russians even giving most of them Russian passports .. they are the citizens Russia wants to protect.
Alex jones talking about video of massive amounts of tanks etc :eek: in a video he will be posting

[qeiii]

Peace-keepers - codswallop. Talk about "new-speak". It's exactly what David says. It's always the opposite.

Interesting he is talking about the Caucus region. It's starting to make a bit more sense now. Now THAT is a reason.

[annuskatus]

Guess who trained Georgian Special Forces? Yep. Good old USA. They used huge number of brand new Land Rovers when entering the South Ossetia. This according to Finnish newsbulletin..

[dangermouse]

www.rte.ie/news

has some clips

[qeiii]

According to CNN there are 1,000 US troops ALREADY in Georgia to "strengthen" the partnership with US. Georgia are applying to join NATO and are 2 months away from actually joining. Again - coincidence? No.

[Anders Lindman]

According to CNN there are 1,000 US troops ALREADY in Georgia to "strengthen" the partnership with US. Georgia are applying to join NATO and are 2 months away from actually joining. Again - coincidence? No.

I wonder about the U.S. armada heading to the Persian Gulf. I thought that was for Iran. Maybe it's for Georgia? :confused:

[graflok]

Here comes World War IV :cool:

[jos08]

I wonder about the U.S. armada heading to the Persian Gulf. I thought that was for Iran. Maybe it's for Georgia? :confused:

mate, that is for Iran, we shall know more in the coming weeks or even maybe days about the Iran situation..

[Anders Lindman]

Rush Limbaugh said that it was good that Russia has invaded Georgia because the oil price dropped $4. :eek: Maybe he is being honest, but he seems to be totally emotionless about civilians being killed. I like Limbaugh but I sense a bit of a psychopathic strain in his behaviour.

[Anders Lindman]

mate, that is for Iran, we shall know more in the coming weeks or even maybe days about the Iran situation..

I guess that is correct. I don't think Bush would dare to start a war with Russia.

[quest]

Here's a live tv feed in english to a russian tv station Russia TV. They are giving a very different picture to lay all the blame on georgia, obviously. You probably need to click on the world button. For some odd reason I cannot access the tv stations in georgia! !

http://www.livenewscameras.com/

[jos08]

Rush Limbaugh said that it was good that Russia has invaded Georgia because the oil price dropped $4. :eek: Maybe he is being honest, but he seems to be totally emotionless about civilians being killed. I like Limbaugh but I sense a bit of a psychopathic strain in his behaviour.
maybe what Lindsey Williams said on alex jones show is coming ... he said that the bankers will make oil come down to $50 per barrel :eek: .. check it out on youtube

[moonfly]

it's a warning from Russia


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/07/content_9034151.htm




Russia seeks military presence in Cuba in response to U.S. missile shield


www.chinaview.cn 2008-08-07 21:50:38


MOSCOW, Aug. 7 (Xinhua) -- Russia's seemingly newfound interestin resuming its positions in Cuba has appeared at a time when Moscow is growing increasingly apprehensive about the proposed U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe, analysts say.

"We need to reestablish positions on Cuba and in other countries," Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said earlier this week after hearing a report from Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, who had just ended a three-day visit to the Caribbean state, along with Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev.

Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee for International Affairs Andrei Klimov seemed more unequivocal about the topic. "Russia should take advantage of all its capabilities to protect its national interests, including the interests in the field of security," he said after the talks in Cuba between Russian and Cuban officials.

Russia should "own its supporting points" in different regions in the world, Klimov said, noting that "Cuba's location has geopolitical importance" and that a presence in both economic and military affairs must be built in America.

Klimov did not rule out the possibility of a military presence on the Caribbean Island just off the U.S. coast. "If America deploys its AMD systems closely to our border, Russia can also deploy its systems on the territories of the states which will accept it," he said.

But he quickly added that Russia's plans would not involve targeting its missiles at the United States.

Leonid Ivashov, a Russian political analyst and former top defence ministry official, said the retrieval of the Russian military presence in Cuba may pose as a response to growing U.S. military and political pressure on Russia.

"It is not a secret that the West is creating a 'buffer zone' around Russia, involving in the process countries in Central Europe, the Caucasus, the Baltic states and Ukraine," Ivashov was quoted by the RIA Novosti news agency as saying.

"In response, we may expand our military presence abroad, including in Cuba," he said.

Ivashov, also president of the Academy of Geopolitical Sciences,said "there are convenient bays for reconnaissance and battleshipsand a network of so-called forward staging posts in Cuba. We can resume the operation of the radar center in Lurdes upon the agreement of the Cuban administration."

Analysts said huge pressures are building on Moscow, especiallyin security field, after the United States proposed to place its missile defense shield in Poland and the neighboring Czech Republic last year -- a step Washington insists are necessary to prevent possible attacks from "rogue states" such as Iran.

Some media reports also drew attention to the repercussions of the U.S. foreign policy, like supporting the "color revolutions" in the former Soviet republics of Georgia, Kyrgyzstan and Ukraine,as well as the deployment of the missile shield.

According to media reports, some of Russia's top military brass,angered by the U.S. plans to install a missile defence shield in eastern Europe, suggested last month that Russia should use Cuba as a refueling stop for nuclear-capable bombers.

The Russian defense ministry then denied the reports, but the United States warned that such a move would cross the "red line."

U.S. State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Monday Washington continued to oppose improving relations with Cuba but that countries were free to conduct their own bilateral relations,according to the DPA.

The U.S. could have more reaction to Russia's plan "if it movesforward," Gallegos said, adding that "we don't see dealing with the Cuban government as particularly productive."

Analysts said a Russian military presence in Cuba would make Washington extremely uneasy, although there is still a long way togo for any military cooperation between Russia and Cuba to be put in place.

The Cuban missile crisis in 1962 shows that the United States won't allow any real threat deployed in a place as close as Cuba. In October 1962, the United States and the then Soviet Union went on the brink of war after a U.S. spy plane revealed missile bases being built in Cuba.

Cuba, however, appears to be indifferent toward Moscow's intention to restore its military presence there.

Concerned about the fueled speculation over a possible deployment of Russia's military facilities on the island, a high-ranking Cuban diplomat denied that military cooperation between Moscow and Havana are underway.

Havana "is ready to cooperate with Russia in civil branches, but it is unlikely to be in favor of resuming military cooperation," the diplomat was quoted by the RIA Novosti as saying.

[Anders Lindman]

maybe what Lindsey Williams said on alex jones show is coming ... he said that the bankers will make oil come down to $50 per barrel :eek: .. check it out on youtube

I don't believe in Lindsey Williams, but if oil drops to $50 per barrel, then he may be more correct than I think he is. Lindsey has probably been fed info, some false, some true.

[Anders Lindman]

Here's a live tv feed in english to a russian tv station Russia TV. They are giving a very different picture to lay all the blame on georgia, obviously. You probably need to click on the world button. For some odd reason I cannot access the tv stations in georgia! !

http://www.livenewscameras.com/

Yeah, it's interesting to compare news reporting from several sides. Nice site btw.

[quest]

It's interesting to see the Russian version of events at the bottom of the screeen.

At the moment: "Russian FM: Georgia is carrying out ethnic purges in south ossetia" "1400 dead"

PS thanks

[Anders Lindman]

Alex Jones said that there are thousands of U.S. troops in Georgia! :eek: And that they almost certainly will be in fights with Russian troops. Hmm... If Alex is correct, then Rush Limbaugh certainly knows about the U.S. troops and then what Limbaugh said on his show today seems even more suspicious. If Limbaugh know that U.S. troops are in danger and he still acts like an emotionless fish talking only about the oil price in relation to the Russian attack, then that is frankly spooky.

[themime]

Any chance that it's part of a deal to give former Soviet states back to Russia in exchange for them turning a blind eye to an attack on Iran or a US-UK backed false flag on China?

[deafbred]

looks like the Sears tower is going to get knocked down tonight to.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31940&highlight=sears+tower

[quest]

"We have no idea how many US troops are there" Alex Jones just said. Jeez this is bizzare stuff going on.

[Anders Lindman]

"We have no idea how many US troops are there" Alex Jones just said. Jeez this is bizzare stuff going on.

Alex said that there definitely were special U.S. troops there. And possibly also a lot of U.S. marines.

Bush is in China, while Dick Cheney............well......Cheney....is....:

http://thattherepaul.com/images/cheney-warns-nuke.gif

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/A/d/darth_vader_cheney.jpg

[themime]

"We have no idea how many US troops are there" Alex Jones just said. Jeez this is bizzare stuff going on.


The official figure is 130.

[jos08]

Alex Jones said that there are thousands of U.S. troops in Georgia! :eek: And that they almost certainly will be in fights with Russian troops. Hmm... If Alex is correct, then Rush Limbaugh certainly knows about the U.S. troops and then what Limbaugh said on his show today seems even more suspicious. If Limbaugh know that U.S. troops are in danger and he still acts like an emotionless fish talking only about the oil price in relation to the Russian attack, then that is frankly spooky.
how come i missed the bit when he said that ,,, do you a video link where we can watch or hear him say it,,, thanks for the info ,,, quite relevant at this moment

[Anders Lindman]

how come i missed the bit when he said that ,,, do you a video link where we can watch or hear him say it,,, thanks for the info ,,, quite relevant at this moment

You can listen to the stream on infowars.com that is playing now.

Here is an article from http://www.infowars.com/?p=3834

Evidence of U.S. Military Presence in Georgia

Infowars
August 8, 2008

Georgia, US start military exercises despite tensions with Russia

CNews
July 15, 2008

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian and U.S. troops started a joint military exercise Tuesday amid growing tensions between the ex-Soviet republic and Russia, a Georgian defense ministry official said.

Read article

Russian military gangs ready to invade Georgia. U.S. sends thousand marines in response

Kavkaz-Center
July 10, 2008

Gangs of the Russian invaders from the so-called North Caucasus Military District are ready "to provide assistance to the Russian troops in case the situation gets more aggravated in the conflict zones in Abkhazia and South Ossetia", as gang leader of Russian North Caucasus Military District, Sergei Makarov, said.

Read article

US army exercises begin in Georgia

Aljazeerea
July 15, 2008

The United States and Russia are holding military exercises on either side of the Caucasus mountains amid increasing tensions over the fate of two separatist regions in ex-Soviet Georgia.

Read article

US runs military exercise around Georgia conflict

Now Public
July 17, 2008

The conflict in the Caucasus country of Georgia is growing to alarming levels. The country is fighting with a break-away region in teh North called Abkhazia, where an ethnic minority lives. The area is currently de-facto independent, and Russia is backing the area’s claims to independence, although it’s not really clear why. The US secretary of state Condoleeza Rice visited the country earlier this month, and now the US military is running exercises around the conflict. Could the US military be planning to get involved in this Caucasus conflict? The US would be supporting its pro-West ally Georgia, while Russia would be supporting the rebels. Not exactly a good idea geopolitically!

Read article

US military advisers arrive in Georgia

BBC
February 27, 2002

Five US military advisers have arrived in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, in what is being seen as a possible new front in the US war on terror.

Read article

Green Berets now in Georgia: U.S. Special Forces are training Georgian soldiers to fight radical Muslims. The mission could benefit other U.S. interests as well

VFW Magazine, June-July, 2002 by Tim Dyhouse

President George Bush called the May deployment of some 150 U.S. advisers to Georgia the latest front in the U.S. war on terrorism. Much like their fellow soldiers in the Philippines, U.S. Special Forces are teaching Georgian soldiers how to better fight Muslim extremists within their country. Also, as in the Philippines, U.S. troops are not permitted to engage in combat.

Read article

Special Forces to Train Georgian Military

NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Feb. 28, 2002

WASHINGTON – Concerned that al-Qaeda terrorists have moved into the former Soviet republic of Georgia, the U.S. military is expected to send as many as 200 special operations soldiers there for up to a year to train the Georgian military in counterterror and counterinsurgency tactics.

Read article

From Wikipedia

The Georgia Train and Equip Program (GTEP) training was conducted using U.S. Special Operations Forces and U. S. Marine Corps forces from May 2002 to May 2004. During this time approximately 2,600 Georgian soldiers, including a headquarters staff element and 5 tactical units, received training. Another assistance program, the Georgia Security and Stability Operations Program (Georgia SSOP), was launched in January 2005 as a continuation of the (GTEP) of 2002-2004. Georgian contingents were involved in the Kosovo Force and continue to participate in the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Russia angry at US war plan for Georgia

Security officials from the post-Soviet state of Georgia are expected for talks in London and Washington amid growing signs that American and British forces are gearing up to attack suspected Islamist terrorists holed up in the north of the country, near the Russian border.

Read article

US troops deployed to former Soviet republic of Georgia

Two US Air Force planes brought forty American military personnel to Tbilisi, capital of the former Soviet republic of Georgia, on February 21, marking the first deployment of US combat forces in the Caucasus region, adjacent to one of the world’s largest oilfields.

Read article

US Military Pushes into Ex-Soviet Georgia Under Guise of Fighting Terror

The article, "The Pentagon is Not Rushing to the Transcaucasus, It’s Already There," by Vasily Streltsov, reprinted from Nezavisimaya Gazeta, supports our analysis of the strategic reasons for the so-called war on terror.

Read article

The Pentagon is Not Rushing to the Transcaucasus, It’s Already There

Vasily Streltsov
Counterpunch
February 26, 2002

For a third day high-placed Russian and Georgian politicians have been pronouncing loaded phrases, in the deparaging sense, which are not acceptable in diplomatic protocal. In reply to the suggestion of Igor Ivanov that bin Laden might be hiding in the Pankisi gorge, a more than insulting answer followed from President Eduard Shevardnadze, with the proposal to seek out the terrorist in Ivanov’s mother’s house. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov and Georgian Security Minister Valery Khaburdzania quickly jumped into the frey, while the barbs of the Georgian side continued to carry a very offensive tone.

[lightgiver]

Peace-keepers - codswallop. Talk about "new-speak". It's exactly what David says. It's always the opposite.

Interesting he is talking about the Caucus region. It's starting to make a bit more sense now. Now THAT is a reason.

PROBLEM,REACTION,SOLUTION,;)

The illuminati is most probably behind this as well:eek:

and have you noticed the Georgian flag,looks like the st georges flag:confused:or the knights templer to be more precise.

[Anders Lindman]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/f/k/1/chene_vader.jpg

[Anders Lindman]

how come i missed the bit when he said that ,,, do you a video link where we can watch or hear him say it,,, thanks for the info ,,, quite relevant at this moment

I have now listened to a bit more of the Alex Jones show. Not only is Alex saying that there are U.S. troops in Georgia, he also asked one of his guests something like: "Bob, is there any chance that there are U.S. troops in Georgia at the moment?" and his guest replied something like: "No doubt whatsoever".

And if I remember correctly, earlier in the show Alex asked Jason Burmase to do a web search about U.S. troops in Georgia and Jason found news articles about that within a few seconds!

[sub x]

[QUOTE=Anders Lindman;451204]I have now listened to a bit more of the Alex Jones show. Not only is Alex saying that there are U.S. troops in Georgia, he also asked one of his guests something like: "Bob, is there any chance that there are U.S. troops in Georgia at the moment?" and his guest replied something like: "No doubt whatsoever".
[QUOTE]


That would be Bob Chapman former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration.

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/Bob_Chapman

[steevo]

Russia has invaded Georgia ? Bloody 'ell I wonder why we didnt see that one coming ? Maybe because we believed that Putin isnt that type of guy ? Maybe we have been tricked and HE is working for the Illuminati too ? We dont know. Or maybe, there isnt an invasion by Russia and it's all a fake to make us believe that Russia started a new world war ?
I dont trust the mainstream media, they are just repeaters and NOTHING ELSE. They say what they are told to say.
Bush/Cheney are involved in this "invasion" BIGTIME, that is for certain.

Has it been reported on TV at all ? I havent switched the tv on at all so i have no idea myself.

[Anders Lindman]

That would be Bob Chapman former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration.

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/Bob_Chapman

Yep, he is often on the show. He is on the audio stream now (if the stream has the same timing for all listeners).

[jos08]

if there is American troops in Georgia for certain then that is it .... its the beginning of the war, if you look at WW1 it just started with same theme ... one country helping another's enemy and it suddenly all kicks off.. but I hope that there is no American troops in Georgia. on the other hand the war with Iran will start one day and very soon I believe.

[steevo]

if there is American troops in Georgia for certain then that is it .... its the beginning of the war, if you look at WW1 it just started with same theme ... one country helping another's enemy and it suddenly all kicks off.. but I hope that there is no American troops in Georgia. on the other hand the war with Iran will start one day and very soon I believe.

Surely the America troops are gonna realise by now that something aint right. The Americans are getting conned by their "leaders".

[Anders Lindman]

if there is American troops in Georgia for certain then that is it .... its the beginning of the war, if you look at WW1 it just started with same theme ... one country helping another's enemy and it suddenly all kicks off.. but I hope that there is no American troops in Georgia. on the other hand the war with Iran will start one day and very soon I believe.

It depends on how mainstream media reports it. If the media keeps quiet about U.S. troops being stationed in Georgia then most American citizens will not even know anything about it.

[jos08]

It depends on how mainstream media reports it. If the media keeps quiet about U.S. troops being stationed in Georgia then most American citizens will not even know anything about it.

we know that the media is controlled by them, but what happened to Russian themselves, why aren't they saying that Americans troops are in Georgia.

[Anders Lindman]

we know that the media is controlled by them, but what happened to Russian themselves, why aren't they saying that Americans troops are in Georgia.

If there are U.S. troops in Georgia, then Russia wouldn't want to mention that because it would make the American people upset and so that they may demand that the U.S. soldiers should be defended. So Russia, like the U.S. media both don't want to mention it.

If there are U.S. troops in Georgia, then Rush Limbaugh is likely finished, because either he didn't know about it, and that makes the whole Limbaugh media team look like fools, OR he DID know about it but put on a false mask and only talked about that it was good that Russia attacked Georgia because of a falling oil price, while knowing that U.S. soldiers were in danger. That does NOT look good.

[steevo]

Has anyone got any links stating that the American troops have attacked Russians ? If I heard right, Alex Jones said it mentioned it in "USA Today" Newspaper.

[jos08]

If there are U.S. troops in Georgia, then Russia wouldn't want to mention that because it would make the American people upset and so that they may demand that the U.S. soldiers should be defended. So Russia, like the U.S. media both don't want to mention it.

If there are U.S. troops in Georgia, then Rush Limbaugh is likely finished, because either he didn't know about it, and that makes the whole Limbaugh media team look like fools, OR he DID know about it but put on a false mask and only talked about that it was good that Russia attacked Georgia because of a falling oil price, while knowing that U.S. soldiers were in danger. That does NOT look good.
true I guess, but these do come out and maybe this is it. if the media starts talking about unrest of any kind with Russia then the war will begin officially

[redtree999]

"..Tue Jul 15, 2008: VAZIANI, Georgia (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.."

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1556589920080715

It doesn't get much closer that this - Although they deny any connection with the current drama.

[citroen999]

upto date info on the russia situation.. but the presenter is presenting in a style of local news tv ..

she's unbelieveable and so amateirish its unreal

[Anders Lindman]

true I guess, but these do come out and maybe this is it. if the media starts talking about unrest of any kind with Russia then the war will begin officially

If Alex Jones is correct that there are U.S. troops in Georgia, then mainstream media will have a difficult time trying to downplay it, OR maybe they WANT to start a war between USA and Russia. :eek: I doubt it though. Only maybe someone like Dick Cheney could be that crazy.

[jos08]

"..Tue Jul 15, 2008: VAZIANI, Georgia (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.."

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1556589920080715

It doesn't get much closer that this - Although they deny any connection with the current drama.
well that's shocking .... that confirms the theory that the Americans are actually behind all this and this is a start of a vicious war.

[Anders Lindman]

"Pentagon closely monitoring Georgia situation

Pentagon officials say the roughly 130 U.S. troops and contractors in the former Soviet republic of Georgia have all been accounted for, and there are no plans to pull them out in the face of a military clash between Georgia and Russia over the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters Aug. 8 that U.S. officials have had some contact with Georgian authorities, but the Georgians had made no requests for assistance. Whitman said he does not believe U.S. military officials have had any contact with the Russians.

U.S. officials were continuing to monitor the situation closely as of Friday afternoon.

He said the 130 Americans in Georgia, which include “a few dozen” civilian contractors, are all working to prepare the Georgian forces for their next deployment to Iraq. All those U.S. trainers, he said, have been accounted for, none has been injured, and there are no plans to pull them out of the country."

Full story: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/08/military_georgia_080808w/

[redtree999]

Although the US are saying they are just interested in helping Georgia into NATO, and to combat "terrorists", It's more likely about the BTC Pipeline.

If you are unfamiliar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline

or

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/may/26/businessqandas.oilandpetrol

[steevo]

"Pentagon closely monitoring Georgia situation

Pentagon officials say the roughly 130 U.S. troops and contractors in the former Soviet republic of Georgia have all been accounted for, and there are no plans to pull them out in the face of a military clash between Georgia and Russia over the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters Aug. 8 that U.S. officials have had some contact with Georgian authorities, but the Georgians had made no requests for assistance. Whitman said he does not believe U.S. military officials have had any contact with the Russians.

U.S. officials were continuing to monitor the situation closely as of Friday afternoon.

He said the 130 Americans in Georgia, which include “a few dozen” civilian contractors, are all working to prepare the Georgian forces for their next deployment to Iraq. All those U.S. trainers, he said, have been accounted for, none has been injured, and there are no plans to pull them out of the country."

Full story: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/08/military_georgia_080808w/

I can't see the "powers that be" wasting a situation like this, they can say that the Russians attacked the Americans and then that is WW3. The Illuminati WANT WW3 so this is a perfect set up.

[pac3lli]

Guess who trained Georgian Special Forces? Yep. Good old USA. They used huge number of brand new Land Rovers when entering the South Ossetia. This according to Finnish newsbulletin..

Hmm..


July 15, 2008
VAZIANI, Georgia (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008", had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

And...

August 8, 2008
Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.

If you guys normally don't read quotes, take a second and read them.

Simply put, Georgian aggression backed by US and Israelis.

[Anders Lindman]

I can't see the "powers that be" wasting a situation like this, they can say that the Russians attacked the Americans and then that is WW3. The Illuminati WANT WW3 so this is a perfect set up.

But a war between America and Russia is probably just too crazy, even for the Illuminati. Like the movie Dr. Strangelove.

[pac3lli]

Live Russian TV in the English language.

http://streaming.visionip.tv/Russia_Today

[dangermouse]

Hmm..



And...



If you guys normally don't read quotes, take a second and read them.

Simply put, Georgian aggression backed by US and Israelis.

Yeah with Israel there and deploying carriers to the gulf and With US forces in the gulf, is the Iran thing a big smokescreen for the real target?:eek:

[pheony]

Oh dear this is really worrying:eek:

[moonfly]

here we go........
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,399962,00.html

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili is expected to declare martial law within hours, according to the Georgian security council chief, Reuters reported

[moonfly]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,4780,00.html


PICTURES
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4780_images/0808081450_M_080808_Ossetia08.jpg

[red_ram]

*long, deep sigh*

This sort of shit is really becoming tiresome.

[resistance]

Live Russian TV in the English language.

http://streaming.visionip.tv/Russia_Today

Good link, this conflict has been going on for some time.

[sidreighn]

I didn't want to be right, but I said on this forum a few days ago that while the world was looking to China something might happen elsewhere. According to BBC news Georgia has asked USA for support!!! Stand by for USA versus Russia.

This is not good by any standards and I agree with rise that the MSM are not giving very much prominence to this. Too busy with the sun worship ceremony in Beijing in the centre of an eye. Yuck

I'm not even slightly surprised this is just weeks after the G8....

And all the world leaders are at the olympics....isn't the flame a sign of the illuminati? Wasn't all the authorities defending the flame a with a little too much effort??

Its typical of a good event being given negative vibrations....coincedence the WORLD IS watching?? Not really, this is their theatre of DREAMS....

[whitenight639]

Any chance that it's part of a deal to give former Soviet states back to Russia in exchange for them turning a blind eye to an attack on Iran or a US-UK backed false flag on China?


I think you might have something there, as we know Russia and china have intrests in iran staying intact because they have big oil contracts with them, and russia often patrol Iranian air space for them.

[sloughi]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_south_ossetia
Georgia reports new air attacks at military bases
Earlier, Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian aircraft of bombing two military air bases, inflicting some casualties and destroying several military aircraft. Rustavi 2 television said four people were killed and five wounded at the Marneuli air base.

Twelve Russian troops were killed and 30 wounded in the fighting, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov.

Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending in reinforcements for its troops in the province, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.

"We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns."

[simjamlmx]

U.S starts wargames in georgia. Here's an article announcing american training georgian troops from the 15th july 2008


u.s star wargames in georgia (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25684774/)

the attack by georgia on russian peacekeepers is clearly a provocation.

[deafbred]

here are some links to the Sears Tower LIVE streaming webcams

one only refreshes every sixty seconds
and GET THIS!! There is a spider on it now! wow!
I uploaded some pictures of it to my website incase you miss out

here is the site to look at the sixty second one which is a 102floor view inside to the view outside.

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/fox/webcam4.html

and here is a link to a cam that is LIVE and more streaming

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/illinois/chicago/field/#

here are the pictures of the spider on the sixty second one

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[amethyst]

Russia has invaded Georgia ? Bloody 'ell I wonder why we didnt see that one coming ? Maybe because we believed that Putin isnt that type of guy ? Maybe we have been tricked and HE is working for the Illuminati too ? We dont know. Or maybe, there isnt an invasion by Russia and it's all a fake to make us believe that Russia started a new world war ?
I dont trust the mainstream media, they are just repeaters and NOTHING ELSE. They say what they are told to say.
Bush/Cheney are involved in this "invasion" BIGTIME, that is for certain.

Has it been reported on TV at all ? I havent switched the tv on at all so i have no idea myself.

Has it been reported on TV? Well here in the US, it has certainly been downplayed- not really focused on

The big "news" (if you can call it that) here, is the John Edwards extramarital affair "story" that they keep repeating and repeating ad naseum :rolleyes: ...and of course, the olympics...

Like this is important???

Distraction, distraction, distraction...from what's really going on...

[jock1056]

08.08.08. PIPELINE for lives .

[Anders Lindman]

"
Pentagon officials say the roughly 130 U.S. troops and contractors in the former Soviet republic of Georgia have all been accounted for

Full story: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/08/military_georgia_080808w/

"White House Press Secretary Dana Perino said the U.S., which "supports Georgia's territorial integrity," was calling for an immediate cease-fire. The Pentagon has about 200 troops in Georgia training units deployed to Iraq, officials said."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5933338.html

Pentagon having problem counting? Counting is easy. Look at my fingers:....1.....2....3....4 The people working at Pentagon are perhaps not clever enough to count? About 130 U.S. troops? Or about 200 U.S. troops?

[themime]

I think you might have something there, as we know Russia and china have intrests in iran staying intact because they have big oil contracts with them, and russia often patrol Iranian air space for them.


Also no one seems to be asking why the peacekeepers are being referred to as Russian when the original mandate was for CIS peacekeepers. If you look at the reason why they are no longer called CIS peacekeepers you can see how Putin has orchestrated this.

Like I said the army units used in this peacekeeping would put the 12th SS Panzer to shame, this isn't a limited action this is an invasion.

Remember the mystery bomb that failed to destroy the Georgian radar base a year ago.(5th Aug 2006)

If I was the Ukraine I'd be watching this very closely.

[Anders Lindman]

Michael Rivero said that the attack on Russians in Georgia could have been started by U.S. soldiers or even Israeli soldiers. :confused:

My own guess is that Russians were attacked in Georgia as a false flag operation. Wars are ALWAYS started with false flag attacks it seems.

The false flag attack could have been carried out by either Russia or the U.S. (or even Israel).

If the U.S. starts a war with Iran, then it was likely the U.S. who carried out the false flag attack in Georgia. Otherwise Russia may be guilty and the reason could be to secure their pipeline through Georgia.

[themime]

Has Russian TV yet shown any pictures of the wounded peacekeepers?

[romas]

USA will back off from Georgia if Russia will back off from Iran, it's pretty simple, US-Israel will get to keep middle east and Russia will get to keep Black and Caspian sea regions.

Unless ofcourse this war is designed to go on as part of depopulation/money making machinasions. I dare not imagine how this could escalate into world wide conflict :(

The way I see it South Ossetia is part of Gergia one way or the other, it's in middle of the country, the only reason they want to separate is because of Russian influence and financing. Russia has nothing to do with it and as third party is an agressor.

Georgian rulers have already signed up arms deals etc. in exchange for their future pipeline plans, as such little country could not afford formidable armed forces by it's own budget. As usual civilians are going to suffer AND pay for this war :(

[steevo]

It would APPEAR to me that the Illuminati runs Georgia at the moment and that is a massive threat to Russia, especially cos of those missiles that they have got aimed at Russia.
Russia have no option but to put out the threat while they still can.
Of course, this whole thing could be an Illuminati staged event, I dont know.

[stelios]

Michael Rivero said that the attack on Russians in Georgia could have been started by U.S. soldiers or even Israeli soldiers. :confused:

My own guess is that Russians were attacked in Georgia as a false flag operation. Wars are ALWAYS started with false flag attacks it seems.

The false flag attack could have been carried out by either Russia or the U.S. (or even Israel).

If the U.S. starts a war with Iran, then it was likely the U.S. who carried out the false flag attack in Georgia. Otherwise Russia may be guilty and the reason could be to secure their pipeline through Georgia.

I agree, America and it's Israeli masters have been pushing Georgia into attacking for quite some time.
They may use this opportunity to attack Iran in the hope that because Russia is busy they wont be able to help Iran.

Clearly Abkhazia and South Ossetia are independant countries and have the right to protection and securtity from Georgia's aggression.

Dont forget Georgia is where the Ashkenazis originate from.
The real rulers of the world.

http://www.nkusa.org/images/flag-ani.gif

[themime]

BTW nice use of the EU flag by the Georgian president during his interviews.:D

[thankyoudave]

Have you noticed the lack of reporting on Fox News. They're burrying it with lesser news stories.

[Anders Lindman]

BTW nice use of the EU flag by the Georgian president during his interviews.:D

I found that strange since I had recently changed my avatar to the EU flag just to get a feeling of it.

[Anders Lindman]

Have you noticed the lack of reporting on Fox News. They're burrying it with lesser news stories.

I saw a video with George W. Bush talking about the war, and he looked different than for example when he has been talking about the Iraq war. I wonder if the false flag attack was a U.S. or a Russian operation. :confused:

That the attack happened exactly when the Olympics started is not likely just a coincidence. I sense a deliberate planning and that big powers are behind this conflict.

[Anders Lindman]

I haven't heard much about this:

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo/_new/080715-georgia-hmed-245a.hmedium.jpg

"Reuters July 15, 2008

U.S.-Georgia training begins amid Russia strain

VAZIANI, Georgia - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25684774/

I found this: "The International Training “Immediate Response 2008” conducted with the joint efforts of the USA and Georgian Armed Forces was held at Vaziani Military Base on July 15-31. The mission of the training was to improve combined capabilities and strengthen regional cooperation."

http://dprogram.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/july-15-31-usa-and-georgian-armed-forces-conducted-%E2%80%9Cimmediate-response-2008%E2%80%9D/

I guess that the 1000 U.S. troops were only in Georgia until July 31. Or are they still there?

[kalimera]

Anybody got an idea what to do?

[Anders Lindman]

Anybody got an idea what to do?

Hi kalimera,

I'm going to follow what happens with the war from time to time, and keep an eye on what is happening with Iran.

[lightgiver]

I think everything has been planned,none of this is just coincidence;)
They want to run oil pipes through georgia,and are no doubt up to other things,so all this as been planned:(and the rest of the other events to come.
Just another part of the elites bigger agenda,it is plain to see.

[themime]

Raises the question of what forum members would do if WW3 did start anytime soon.

Would you fight for a system you despise or would you refuse?

[Anders Lindman]

I think everything has been planned,none of this is just coincidence;)
They want to run oil pipes through georgia,and are no doubt up to other things,so all this as been planned:(and the rest of the other events to come.
Just another part of the elites bigger agenda,it is plain to see.

Yes, it certainly looks planned. The question is who is behind it? One way of finding out is to see who benefits. My prime suspects at the moment are the Russian government and the U.S. government.

David Icke says that the real elite control both sides! :eek: In that case we need to look at the CFR, the banking elite etc.

[lightgiver]

Yes, it certainly looks planned. The question is who is behind it? One way of finding out is to see who benefits. My prime suspects at the moment are the Russian government and the U.S. government.

David Icke says that the real elite control both sides! :eek: In that case we need to look at the CFR, the banking elite etc.

Yes i agree,the bankers are definitely part of it or most likely the orchestrator's of this whole affair,after all wars cost money.
And yes america and russia scratch each others backs,no doubt.
And the only benefactors of war and conflicts are the bankers and elitist lackeys,they always come up smelling of roses,no matter what crap goes down.;)
And the ordinary people usually pick up the pieces,because they are still blinded to the truth,at least we have an idea what is going on,thank goodness,it is just a shame the majority haven't cottoned on yet but maybe in time they just might;)Who knows???

[lightgiver]

Raises the question of what forum members would do if WW3 did start anytime soon.

Would you fight for a system you despise or would you refuse?

I would refuse:pif it does kick off,then i will just wait and see,but if anything does happen escalation wise there will be no fighting as such, more likely wmds,and mass obliteration:eek:but hopefully that will not happen,because it does not really suit the elites agenda,well i hope not.

[simplify]

Yes, it certainly looks planned. The question is who is behind it? One way of finding out is to see who benefits. My prime suspects at the moment are the Russian government and the U.S. government.

David Icke says that the real elite control both sides! :eek: In that case we need to look at the CFR, the banking elite etc.

It would be real nice to have Davids input on this situation right about now.:rolleyes:

The whole situation is a mass of confusion (which of course is deliberate), its impossible to know who started this mess, & no doubt will become like Iraq all over again, only this time it could become global.

If this is the beginning of WW3, its interesting how (if USA) is behind this, that the tactics are very different than when they went into Iraq. More covert and possibly using another nation to get the ball rolling......problem...reaction...solution:

[moonfly]

After watching the russian news I am more behind russia on this matter than georgia.


The turning point for me was that 98% of the cipitial city was destoryed. that means non-combatants were targeted first.

Untill I learn more I am standing up for the russian point of view.



I still dont see why fox news, CNN, and MSNBC are not covering this conflict besides the limited info on there web sites.

[Anders Lindman]

It would be real nice to have Davids input on this situation right about now.:rolleyes:

The whole situation is a mass of confusion (which of course is deliberate), its impossible to know who started this mess, & no doubt will become like Iraq all over again, only this time it could become global.

If this is the beginning of WW3, its interesting how (if USA) is behind this, that the tactics are very different than when they went into Iraq. More covert and possibly using another nation to get the ball rolling......problem...reaction...solution:confuse d:

I don't believe it will come to a WW3. Unless those in control are really crazy! :eek:

My guess is that it will be possible to track who is behind this war by examining what will happen in the near future.

[niftymage]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/6930/RUSSIA__amp__GEORGIA_WORLD_WAR_3__/

[themime]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/6930/RUSSIA__amp__GEORGIA_WORLD_WAR_3__/

So it was the Tribe of Dan that did it.:D

[pfatbudz]

This whole thing stinks of suspicious actions, from both sides. I found out the night of the 8th and began researching it all night. Checking in on the network "news" I could only find a few 5 min spots that generaly just contained the two puppet candidates saying a bunch of nothings.
No real info or details about it, and this is AT 2am just after the retaliatory strikes of Russia against the docks and factories of Georgia. The worst thing about it though was the constant repeat that Russia was invading Georgia when it was obviously Georgia that was murdering civilians.

Here is something I typed up and sent out elsewhere but it sums up my opinion on the matter well enough.

----

There is something that the world must know about and learn all they can about. It will most likely not be covered extensively, the war erupting in Georgia. What lil coverage I have seen purports this to be instigated by Russia; these are the articles I read on the night of 8/8 and it looks to me as if Georgia is the aggressor in the whole thing.

Why are our tax dollars causing the deaths of citizens, CIVILIANS, of Tskhinvali?

This must be known by all, please keep yourselves updated.
As of 8/8/08 Georgia and Russia are at war, and it looks as if Georgia initiated all this violence
This is the latest article Ive read about bombings going on saterday morning.



http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html#cnnSTCVideo


And on the suface we see Russia dealing some hard blows to the Georgian infrastructure, but in the whole scheme it I see a small nation, Georgia, trying to force itself upon a autonomous peoples and getting stung by the hornets nest that is Russia.

Also it seems very odd to me that 500 or so American troops have been in Georgia for some time training their military, and now all the sudden Georgia attacks and then falls back crying for us to step in.




Thanks to crazations for bringing this to my attention.

Here are a few articles I have been reading on it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2524550/Russia-invades-Georgia-as-South-Ossetia-descends-towards-war.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amqPrh9oTJws&refer=home

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/georgia.russia2?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront


"World leaders have appealed for a ceasefire in the conflict, which erupted after Georgia launched a huge offensive aimed at imposing its control over the rebel province with its large Russian population


[It is so hard to know who is the true aggressor.. anyone with more info please hit me up. This seems very important as a catalyst of sorts.]

"The Russian incursion began after Georgia launched a major military offensive to retake control of South Ossetia, which has enjoyed de facto autonomy since the early 1990s but officially remains part of the country"
"Only Russia has recognised its self-declared independence"

[Just keep your eyes on this new developments in our world, it all has to do with the BIG PICTURE.]


"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," Lyudmila Ostayeva, a resident of the South Ossetia capital, Tskhinvali, told The Associated Press on Friday.

"It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged," she said after fleeing to a village near the Russian border, AP reported.

"They are killing civilians, women and children, with heavy artillery and rockets," Sarmat Laliyev, 28, told AP.

“Hundreds of people, possibly thousands, are fleeing South Ossetia to the Russian region of North Ossetia-Alania, the United Nations reported Friday, citing Russian officials.”

Funny how the civilians are running for their lives from Georgian Tanks and are being protected by the Russian army.



"The Novosti news agency, citing the South Ossetian government, said Georgian tanks and infantry attacked Tskhinvali, and "a large part of the city has been destroyed. Over 15 civilians have been killed, several buildings are on fire in the city center, and the local parliament building has burned down."


WTF does all this mean?
And when the Faux/CNN media doesnt cover something you can know the NWO agenda has its fingers in it.

[holylucifer]

Well Georgia declared Martial Law

http://story.japanherald.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/2411cd3571b4f088/id/392188/cs/1/

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080808/twl-georgia-to-declare-martial-law-3fd0ae9.html

[simplify]

I don't believe it will come to a WW3. Unless those in control are really crazy! :eek:

My guess is that it will be possible to track who is behind this war by examining what will happen in the near future.

Anders: I want to say a big Thank You for all your research and posts on here. Without all you efforts, I would not be so well informed. Cut off my cable (disgusted with the programming) & nothing in the media about this tragedy. :)

[guuna]

I think that this situation has been on the build up for quite a while.

In Russia last year there was a concerted campaign of demonization against foreigners and i understand some pretty uncouth cartoons depicting beetle browed and hook nosed Armenians and Georgians that the old Nazi propoganda machine would have been proud of.

The timing to coincide with the olympics is also highly suspicious.:confused:

[guuna]

IT may be interesting to see what happens to Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia next. If this conflict is to spread and the Russians under illuminati front man Putin want their old empire back.:confused:

[stelios]

IT may be interesting to see what happens to Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia next. If this conflict is to spread and the Russians under illuminati front man Putin want their old empire back.:confused:

That is totally wrong.
America and Israel are causing this crisis in Georgia.

[Anders Lindman]

That is totally wrong.
America and Israel are causing this crisis in Georgia.

I just checked the world oil production. It's still very much flat. This means that there may be an intensified battle for oil going on behind the public scene. Georgia could be a strategic place for oil matters. :confused: And that both Russia and USA are interested in securing that area. Even China may be involved in the conflict. :eek:

[dissident]

This was predicted back in 2001 - The Olympics will be canceled as world war 3 kicks off, Russia + China Vs the rest

[strossus]

After watching the russian news I am more behind russia on this matter than georgia.


The turning point for me was that 98% of the cipitial city was destoryed. that means non-combatants were targeted first.

Untill I learn more I am standing up for the russian point of view.



I still dont see why fox news, CNN, and MSNBC are not covering this conflict besides the limited info on there web sites.

Isn't it obvious? The Olympics and congressmen sex scandals are MUCH more important than a possible WW3.

I can't believe that 95% of people have no idea and don't give two shits.

It makes me sick.

[dangermouse]

Isn't it obvious? The Olympics and congressmen sex scandals are MUCH more important than a possible WW3.

I can't believe that 95% of people have no idea and don't give two shits.

It makes me sick.

Well society has become so self centered that people just write the atrocity off with a " Its not affecting us so why worry about it" mentality.

[ralpapajan]

I don't believe it will come to a WW3. Unless those in control are really crazy! :eek:

My guess is that it will be possible to track who is behind this war by examining what will happen in the near future.

Simply have a look here. It explains it all, really.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

Also look here:

http://english.pravda.ru/topic/georgia_ossetia-603/

This forum has so much truth in it - I am very impressed.

[mynameis]

Simply have a look here. It explains it all, really.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

This explains the Israel interest side of things a lot.

Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

[strossus]

Well society has become so self centered that people just write the atrocity off with a " Its not affecting us so why worry about it" mentality.

Exactly.

[shodan]

Well society has become so self centered that people just write the atrocity off with a " Its not affecting us so why worry about it" mentality.

Bang on.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hV2N6fVKS5slf10A13Dj_uIdaZ4QD92FA11G0

Russia expands bombing blitz in Georgia
By DAVID NOWAK – 45 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Russia expanded its bombing blitz Sunday against neighboring U.S.-allied Georgia, targeting the country's capital for the first time while Georgian troops pulled out of the capital of the contested province of South Ossetia under heavy Russian shelling.

Georgia's Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said the Georgian troops had to move out of Tskhinvali because of heavy Russian fire.

"Russia further escalated its aggression overnight, using weapons on unprecedented scale. In these conditions our forces conducted redeployment," Lomaia said.

Russian jets raided a plant on the eastern outskirts of Tbilisi that builds Su-25 ground jets used by Georgia in the conflict. The attack inflicted some damage to its runways but caused no casualties, said Georgia's Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili.

"We heard a plane go over and then a big explosion," said Malkhaz Chachanidze, a 41-year old ceramics artist whose house is located just outside the fence of the factory, which has been running since the Soviet era. "It woke us up, everything shook."

Russian jets have been roaming Georgia's skies since Friday. They raided several air bases and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.

The Russian warplanes also struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline which carries Caspian crude to the West, but no supply interruptions have been reported.

[Anders Lindman]

Simply have a look here. It explains it all, really.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

Also look here:

http://english.pravda.ru/topic/georgia_ossetia-603/

This forum has so much truth in it - I am very impressed.

Hi ralpapajan,

The below article was interesting. Russian officials believe USA orchestrated the conflict! They could be right. Or the Russian government started it as a false flag operation. :confused:

"In the meantime, Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.

“The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it,” the official said."

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/09-08-2008/106046-russia_georgia-0

[steevo]

If this turns into all out war with Georgia getting help from it's "allies", then that would be a very good excuse for the "powers that be" to declare Marshall Law in Britain and America etc. Maybe that's what this incident is all about ? It would appear to me that they do want marshall law here and everywhere, and they want to use EU foreign soldiers to control us.
Just a thought :o

[pheony]

If this turns into all out war with Georgia getting help from it's "allies", then that would be a very good excuse for the "powers that be" to declare Marshall Law in Britain and America etc. Maybe that's what this incident is all about ? It would appear to me that they do want marshall law here and everywhere, and they want to use EU foreign soldiers to control us.
Just a thought :o

Could be.

[jos08]

Hi ralpapajan,

The below article was interesting. Russian officials believe USA orchestrated the conflict! They could be right. Or the Russian government started it as a false flag operation. :confused:
http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/09-08-2008/106046-russia_georgia-0
this could very well be it.. I guess that is why the Russians are not letting go of this and they know that if they don't react then the Americans are just gonna walk all over Russia. there might be undiscovered oil there as well and so this is just a struggle to get the land on all sides.

[Anders Lindman]

this could very well be it.. I guess that is why the Russians are not letting go of this and they know that if they don't react then the Americans are just gonna walk all over Russia. there might be undiscovered oil there as well and so this is just a struggle to get the land on all sides.

The U.S. military had a 1000 troops exercise in Georgia just a couple of weeks ago. This means that Bush & Co are likely interested in the area. Protecting oil pipelines could be the main reason. And the Russian government likely has gotten increasingly nervous about the U.S. activities in Georgia.

[jos08]

The U.S. military had a 1000 troops exercise in Georgia just a couple of weeks ago. This means that Bush & Co are likely interested in the area. Protecting oil pipelines could be the main reason. And the Russian government likely has gotten increasingly nervous about the U.S. activities in Georgia.
1000 troops is enough force to create a war between two countries not to mention the Israelis which I have heard that are also doing military style exercises. so what is the latest now? is the situation calmer or more intense?

[amethyst]

This Russian- Georgian War is a diversion of something BIGGER:

Massive US Naval Armada Heads to Iran

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32772

[dangermouse]

This Russian- Georgian War is a diversion of something BIGGER:

Massive US Naval Armada Heads to Iran

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32772

eeeps :eek:

[simplify]

The U.S. military had a 1000 troops exercise in Georgia just a couple of weeks ago. This means that Bush & Co are likely interested in the area. Protecting oil pipelines could be the main reason. And the Russian government likely has gotten increasingly nervous about the U.S. activities in Georgia.

Anders: is that an Al Gore avatar:confused:

[simplify]

This Russian- Georgian War is a diversion of something BIGGER:

Massive US Naval Armada Heads to Iran

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32772

I totally agree, the US do not send an armada that big just to protect oil lines:eek:

[amethyst]

eeeps :eek:

eeeps is right :eek:......Iran, here they come.....

[pheony]

This Russian- Georgian War is a diversion of something BIGGER:

Massive US Naval Armada Heads to Iran

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32772

This is what i think as well.

Is Russia going to allow America to go into Iran?
If America does'nt involve itself in what is going on in Georgia?
This would keep both sides happy..Oil.

[Anders Lindman]

1000 troops is enough force to create a war between two countries not to mention the Israelis which I have heard that are also doing military style exercises. so what is the latest now? is the situation calmer or more intense?

The situation seems worse than ever:

"TSKHINVALI, South Ossetia (CNN) -- Tskhinvali, the capital of the separatist Georgian province South Ossetia, lay in smoldering ruins Sunday after three days of fighting between Georgian troops and Russian forces."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/10/georgia.russia/index.html

[amethyst]

This is what i think as well.

Is Russia going to allow America to go into Iran?
If America does'nt involve itself in what is going on in Georgia?
This would keep both sides happy..Oil.

The Olympics: a 'cover' for what is/will be happening in Iran (ie: keeps the "sheeple" content)

Russian-Georgian war: Keep Russia occupied so US and Israel can bomb the hell out of Iran

[Anders Lindman]

Anders: is that an Al Gore avatar:confused:

Yes, I searched for a Dr. Strangelove avatar but found the Al Gore image instead. :D

[peachped]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcv-ynUDYHc

'Russia Today' is reporting that Ukranians and possibly American soldiers bodies are being found after the fighting.

[pheony]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcv-ynUDYHc

'Russia Today' is reporting that Ukranians and possibly American soldiers bodies are being found after the fighting.

Did hear on the news that 'The Ukraine 'could become involved in this:(

[jos08]

maybe this is just an exercise on behalf of America to see what will Russia do if it decided to invade Iran. just to see the reaction ....
if you really think about it hard you would know that 8.8.8 was the begining of a war, maybe not WW3 but Iran or Russia with its neighbours

[pfatbudz]

maybe this is just an exercise on behalf of America to see what will Russia do if it decided to invade Iran. just to see the reaction ....
if you really think about it hard you would know that 8.8.8 was the begining of a war, maybe not WW3 but Iran or Russia with its neighbours

Or it is a preemtive strike on the stability of Russia b4 the big war gets here. The ruble had dropped the day after they went to war, and large investments were reported to be pulling out of Russia. This war has allready done its damage to the Russian economy.

[pheony]

News said Georgia has ceased fire and is asking Russia to do the same.

[themime]

I think the NWO script writers are getting lazy...

This feels like a clipshow from the Oct 1938 episode to me.

[peachped]

News said Georgia has ceased fire and is asking Russia to do the same.

It seems that they are getting beat.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/10/russia.georgia1

There are no such photographs yet from Tskhinvali, capital of the separatist enclave of South Ossetia. It was attacked on Friday by Georgia, an assault aimed at wresting back the region of fewer than 100,000 people from de facto independence. Many hundreds were killed and most of the city's buildings devastated. Instead, it was yesterday left to witnesses to describe what had happened, even as Russian troops fought to consolidate their hold after driving the Georgians out of the northern suburbs.

'The night before, a Georgian attack was finally repelled,' said Olga Kiriy, a reporter for Russian TV Channel 1 who spent Friday night sheltering with civilians in a basement during the Georgian assault. 'They have left burnt-out tanks. They were firing at us for a long time. The retreating Georgians left a sniper, but the Russian troops have knocked him out. Just now we were shelled again by Georgian Grad missiles.'

But amid the chaos, one thing seemed clear - Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's extraordinary attempt to reconquer the separatist region of South Ossetia appeared to be unravelling, as Russian planes bombed ever deeper into Georgia and his troops were sucked into street-to-street fighting.

In Tskhinvali - briefly occupied in its entirety by Georgia's US-trained troops - furious fighting was continuing between Russians in the city's north and Georgian forces in the south and centre.

And as Georgia's attempt to capture South Ossetia ran into the sand, the country was plunged into chaos as Saakashvili called for a ceasefire, his government declared a state of war and the National Security Council said it might call for foreign military intervention.

[pheony]

It seems that they are getting beat.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/10/russia.georgia1

They never stood a chance.

[themime]

Watching the UN meeting now and it looks like the US has just called out Russia on if the whole purpose for the war was "regime change".

Could be an indication that they are considering intervening .

[pheony]

Watching the UN meeting now and it looks like the US has just called out Russia on if the whole purpose for the war was "regime change".

Could be an indication that they are considering intervening .

Yes' Russian Foriegn Minister tells U.S that Georgia President must go,

[themime]

Russian news now openly saying that some senior politicians blame the US along with Georgia as they supported/trained the Georgian army.

[pheony]

Russian news now openly saying that some senior politicians blame the US along with Georgia as they supported/trained the Georgian army.

Yes and because of this he is saying that America cant do anything because they know that they are responsible... Not that Russia wants to believe this of course , but this is how it is looking to them.

[Anders Lindman]

Russian news now openly saying that some senior politicians blame the US along with Georgia as they supported/trained the Georgian army.

I just listened to Russia Today on http://www.livenewscameras.com/

They said (could have been propaganda lies) that there were soldiers in black uniforms with American emblems on them in Georgia. :eek:

[pheony]

This whole thing if true, will show the world how America brings conflict and war to the world by their underhand tactics.

[themime]

The US can't afford to stand by and watch as one of its allies is attacked.

Wait for the pictures of dead US troops from a "stray" Russian bomb.

[pheony]

If America gets involved in this it could become nuclear:eek:

[themime]

If America gets involved in this it could become nuclear:eek:


Fuel air bombs first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2FGA3Z-oYM





A bomb close to nuclear damage levels but without the radiation, how considerate. :mad:

[pheony]

Russia will do what it wants to do just as America always does what it wants to do. Super powers really do have all the power. If America gets involved in this we could be looking at our worst nightmare.

[pheony]

Fuel air bombs first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2FGA3Z-oYM





A bomb close to nuclear damage levels but without the radiation, how considerate. :mad:

Fuck.:(

[themime]

Think I'm going to give the war stuff a break for a bit as I'm getting stuck in a negative loop here.

I'm going to chill, read a book and think happy thoughts.:)

[pheony]

Think I'm going to give the war stuff a break for a bit as I'm getting stuck in a negative loop here.

I'm going to chill, read a book and think happy thoughts.:)

Good idea.:)

[jos08]

with bomb like this one we are doomed ... Holly cow ,,,

[whitenight639]

it looks like a hydrogen based bomb, pretty good time to test it tho.

these are the people that make the American equivalent, you wouldn't think the news would leave in a shot of the brand name!

http://www.dynetics.com

[Anders Lindman]

One thing that points to it being a Russian government false flag operation is that they would probably have most to gain from it looking from a political perspective, namely to overthrow the current U.S.-friendly Georgian government.

[seercirra]

im sure it wasnt a russian false flag.

america controls georgia through their president.
and if you saw how the georgian leader was aloud to bleet on american tv. begging for help, when its he who started it, you can see this is an american op.

especially as he has been given as much airtime as he likes, to get the american people behind him. and russia have been given no time at all to say their side of the story.

infact, george bush has been telling us "russias" side of the story

they set it up so that the only logical thing america can do is go and protect georgia, thereby pissing off russia and starting ww3

i really smell a croc of shit here

[Anders Lindman]

One thing that points to it being a Russian government false flag operation is that they would probably have most to gain from it looking from a political perspective, namely to overthrow the current U.S.-friendly Georgian government.

Another thing that points to a Russian false flag operation is that if it was an American false flag operation, then we would see more elaborate reporting about the conflict on CNN etc. The news coverage about the conflict has been surprisingly lame in western mainstream media.

[Anders Lindman]

im sure it wasnt a russian false flag.

america controls georgia through their president.
and if you saw how the georgian leader was aloud to bleet on american tv. begging for help, when its he who started it, you can see this is an american op.

especially as he has been given as much airtime as he likes, to get the american people behind him. and russia have been given no time at all to say their side of the story.

infact, george bush has been telling us "russias" side of the story

they set it up so that the only logical thing america can do is go and protect georgia, thereby pissing off russia and starting ww3

i really smell a croc of shit here

Look at the CNN site for example. They have had the same front story about the conflict for a long time. Not at all like for example the Iraq war when it started when CNN pumped massive amounts of news coverage about the war minute by minute.

The U.S. government would want to keep the current Georgian government, not overthrow it as the Russian government seems to want.

[pheony]

And which film do BBC1 show tonight... 'Crimson Tide'

[peachped]

And which film do BBC1 show tonight... 'Crimson Tide'

Well spotted.

Crimson Tide

Channel:
BBC1
Air date:
Sun, Aug 10 2008 - 22:20
Description:
Undersea suspense drama following the power struggle between a commander and his executive officer on board a nuclear submarine which endangers the lives of the entire world. When they are put on alert after a volatile Russian nationalist seizes control of a nuclear missile base and the US stands at the brink of war, the by-the-book captain finds himself at odds with his second-in-command as the potentially catostrophic battle divides the crew

What a coincidence.

[cruise4]

Georgia and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) signed the agreement on the appointment of Partnership for Peace (PfP) on February 14, 2005. The liaison officer between them came into force then and was assigned to Georgia. On March 2, 2005, the agreement was signed on the provision of the host nation supporting and aiding transit of NATO forces and NATO personnel. On March 6-9, 2006, the IPAP implementation interim assessment team arrived in Tbilisi. On April 13, 2006, the discussion of the assessment report on implementation of the Individual Partnership Action Plan was held at NATO Headquarters, within 26+1 format.[1] In 2006, the Georgian parliament voted unanimously for the bill which calls for the integration of Georgia into NATO. A majority of Georgians and politicians in Georgia support the movement for NATO membership. Georgia hopes to gain NATO membership in 2009.[2] On January 5, 2008 Georgia held a non-binding referendum on NATO membership with 77% voting in favor of joining the organization.[3]



NATO has to protect member states doesn't it? Not sure of any relevance. I suppose I'm seeing Russia painted as the bad guy and the Kosovo situation all over again.

[stelios]

Jewish Georgian official says "Our army has IDF training to thank"

By Haaretz Service

Jewish Georgian Minister Temur Yakobshvili on Sunday praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be proud of its military might, in an interview with Army Radio.

"Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers," Yakobashvili told Army Radio in Hebrew, referring to a private Israeli group Georgia had hired.

Yakobashvili, Georgia's minister of reintegration, added that this training provided Georgia with the know-how needed to defend itself against Russian forces in the clashes which erupted last last week in the separatist region of South Ossetia.
Advertisement

Yakobashvili said that a small group of Georgian soldiers had able to wipe out an entire Russian military division due to this training.

"We killed 60 Russian soldiers just yesterday," said Yakobashvili. "The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have enormous damage in terms of manpower,"

Yakobashvili warned that the Russians would try and open another battlefront in Abkhazia and he denied reports that the Georgian army was retreating. "The Georgian forces are not retreating. We move our military according to security needs."

"There was no attack on the airport in Tbilisi. It was a factory that produces combat airplanes," said Yakobashvili referring to the attacks in the country's capital.

"The whole world is starting to understand that what is happening here will determine the future of this region, the future price of crude oil, the future of central Asia, and the future of NATO," the Georgian minister added.

According to him, "every bomb that falls over our heads is an attack on democracy, on the European Union and on America."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010187.html


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/sprg2n/bush/07.gif

[sidreighn]

Russia will do what it wants to do just as America always does what it wants to do. Super powers really do have all the power. If America gets involved in this we could be looking at our worst nightmare.

The people have the power, they are just manipulated to think otherwise!

I for one will not be fighting in any war!

How they can insult you and put you in jail for defending yourself, yet happily give you a gun to KILL in their name is just the height of hypocrisy for me!

[resistance]

Fuel air bombs first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2FGA3Z-oYM





A bomb close to nuclear damage levels but without the radiation, how considerate. :mad:

Well, i can go to bed tonight then with sweet dreams, nothing to worry about dear there only Eco freindly bombs.. Limited damage to the environment, while taken out entire cities and populations, yes how considerate:eek:

[Anders Lindman]

Does this mean that McCain will become the next American president? John McCain is a strong military man with great military experience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nqtL-P8kzo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BldWP-V2ve8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

[cruise4]

American says U.S. and Georgia to answer for violence in South Ossetia

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28788/video

[Anders Lindman]

American says U.S. and Georgia to answer for violence in South Ossetia

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28788/video

Yes, I saw that on the Russia Today video stream. I suspect it's staged propaganda.

[pheony]

The people have the power, they are just manipulated to think otherwise!

I for one will not be fighting in any war!

How they can insult you and put you in jail for defending yourself, yet happily give you a gun to KILL in their name is just the height of hypocrisy for me!

For the people to have the power,a significant amount of the armed forces would have to step down. Do we have weapons to fight an army.. no. How many people does it take to launch a nuclear strike. not many. Lets see how much power we have if they decide to commit an abomination against us. Your right nobody should be fighting for the scum that rule the world, but as you say people are manipulated to think otherwise and alot will fight because they think they are fighting for a just cause.

[Anders Lindman]

Would Bush like to have 3000 Georgian troops removed from Iraq?

Would Bush increase the Georgian military budget 30 times just to have it destroyed?

Would Bush build up a pro-American government in Georgia just to have it overthrown?

Would Putin/Medvedev like to have Americans moving in weapon systems into East Europe?

Would Putin like to have a pro-American Georgian government OR would he like to overthrow it and set up a pro-Russian government in Georgia?

Would Putin like to bomb the oil pipelines in Georgia to weaken the East European countries that have become pro-American and received and installed American weapon systems?

[Anders Lindman]

Would Putin like to bomb the oil pipelines in Georgia to weaken the East European countries that have become pro-American and received and installed American weapon systems?

Maybe yes. Why would Putin bomb pipelines? Can you tell me?

"The war in Georgia escalated dangerously last night after Russian jets reportedly bombed a vital pipeline that supplies oil to the West."

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1043185/The-Pipeline-War-Russian-bear-goes-Wests-jugular.html

[dangermouse]

check this video by disturbed :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW8DRSvEoQ

[Anders Lindman]

Would Putin like to have a pro-American Georgian government OR would he like to overthrow it and set up a pro-Russian government in Georgia?


'Zalid Khalilzad, the US ambassador to the UN, asked his Russian counterpart Vitali Churkin: "Is the goal of the Russian Federation to change the leadership of Georgia?" Churkin replied: "There are leaders who become an obstacle. Sometimes those leaders need to contemplate how useful they have become to their people."'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/11/georgia.russia3

[Anders Lindman]

"How could Saakashvili have made such a catastrophic misjudgment? The answer is that he stepped into an elephant trap set for him by Russia.

[False flag operation (kind of) -->>>] Moscow-backed Ossetian rebels had been provoking the Georgians for weeks with artillery attacks and raids.

Saakashvili took the bait. He sent in his army for an all-out grab. But the Georgian offensive gave Russia just the excuse it needed to send troops and tanks into Ossetia."

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23530648-details/COMMENTARY:+So+why+did+Georgia+blunder+into+this+t rap/article.do

[Anders Lindman]

Georgia's president Mikheil Saakashvili is not a CIA puppet, he is a FRENCH puppet!!!!!

"He received an LLM from Columbia Law School in 1994 and Doctor of Laws degree from The George Washington University Law School the following year. In 1995, he also received a diploma from the International Institute of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

The CIA has been had, has been fooooooooled!!!

:eek::eek::eek:

[seven_star_hand]

Hello again all,

Just got the Happy Birthday Message from this forum (I'm 53 on August 11, 2008), so thought I'd post something I'm working on now and invite you to stop by tomorrow (my time) to see the finished article on one of my blogs. (http://forgingnewparadigms.blogspot.com/)

The NWO gang of thugs is working together to orchestrate a new war to distract the world from the truth. It has been planned for some time and the USA and Russia are working hand-in-hand to create this evil theatrical production. Now they have started a blatantly deceptive war in Georgia on 8/8/08, coinciding with the start of the Olympics, and when many people are expecting some sort of 8/8/08 event . Why were they so desperate (and/or bold) to pull off such a clearly transparent stunt, you might ask?

Many have scoffed at my prophecy assertions and/or outright questioned my sanity in recent years, but now is the time to prove who the real fools are. On June 29, I posted this article on another of my blogs. (http://forgingnewparadigms.blogspot.com/2008/06/as-tempests-rage-before-balances-false.html) Within that article I refer to another article, and it directly mentions the "fanciful Battle of Armageddon." (http://sevenstarhand.blogspot.com/2006/08/fatal-flaws-in-judeo-christian-islamic.html) Following is the first paragraph of that article:

This first version of this article was originally published on 8/8/2006. It is updated and republished now because the time will soon double (http://twocandlesticks.blogspot.com/2007/12/sacred-pomps-wings-are-now-stubble.html) and arrogant deceivers are still trying to initiate the fanciful "Battle of Armageddon."

Hence the time has doubled, to 8/8/08, and the NWO gang is orchestrating an event to simulate a certain interpretation of Armageddon, which I have already shown is completely false. They know their time is short and this is the last chance they have. It is very interesting that both the USA and Israel have been arming and prepping Georgia, and now we see why. Notice how Israel is directly involved (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Israel+Arms+Sale+Georgia&btnG=Google+Search) in these machinations designed to simulate Christian false prophecy interpretations? Sure smells a lot like Vatican around these parts, lately !!!

To top it off, read the following blurb that I have been circulating for the last week to draw attention to the two recently published "Open Letters" referenced below. Now is the time for people to wake up and realize that world leaders are purposely using wars and terrorism to distract you from my presence and messages. They have long-known who I am. Because of my current situation, they feel they might actually succeed with this latest gambit.

Read on to understand more of the truth...

As the world descends towards greater disasters and debacle than humanity has ever known, people are still fighting over ages-old lies and delusions. If we don't take effective and proactive steps quickly, there will be very little left to haggle over. The only way humanity will survive the great dangers that now loom large is through wisdom and cooperation.

In that spirit, I am taking concrete action, in my own way, to end the rancor and deception. Since I am neither an atheist, skeptic, or a follower of any religion, please don't assume that I am trying to defend any of these groups or their positions. In fact, I'm going to kill all of your sacred cows so we can finally have truth, justice, wisdom, and peace.

Open Letter to Religious Leaders (http://exposing-religious-deception.blogspot.com/2008/07/open-letter-to-religious-leaders.html)
Open Letter to Atheists and Skeptics (http://sevenstarhand.blogspot.com/2008/07/open-letter-to-atheists-and-skeptics.html)

Peace and Wisdom...

[cruise4]

Note by using the translate.google.com engine one can actually read the Russian papers. Namely www.redstar.ru is Russia's Military Daily and they have a full article of exactly what the US supplied to Georgia in the past few years...

A clean version of the translated paper is available here : http://tinyurl.com/59p9ly

According to various data, the U.S. over the past few years have put into Georgia 10 helicopter UH-1H "Mohawk", 2 patrol boats such as "Point", and spare parts to them, 230 units of automotive technology for various purposes, including 15 vehicles "Hammer", 101 radio station, technical means search and clearance of explosive devices, equipment to detect hidden cameras and systems of listening. Помимо этого в 2006-2008 годах Соединенные Штаты Америки по программе «Предоставление военной помощи на военные нужды иностранным государствам» выделили Грузии безвозвратных кредитов на общую сумму 30,6 млн. долл., а на подготовку к вступлению в НАТО еще 10 млн.долл. In addition, the 2006-2008 year, the United States of America under the program "Providing military assistance to military needs foreign States" provided Georgia non-refundable credits totalling 30.6 million dollars, and to prepare for NATO membership for another 10 million. По линии различных американских программ подготовки кадров прошли обучение более 8 тыс. грузинских военнослужащих. Through various American training programmes were trained more than 8 thousand Georgian soldiers. В соответствии с двусторонними договоренностями США планируют передать Грузии 15 многоцелевых вертолетов S-70A, причем 7 из них будут поставлены в Грузию в 2010 г., восемь - в 2011 г. In accordance with bilateral agreements the U.S. plan to allocate Georgia 15 multipurpose helicopters S-70A, with 7 of them will be delivered to Georgia in 2010, eight - in 2011
От Болгарии закавказская республика получила 14 единиц 120-мм минометов, 12 зенитных установок ЗУ-23-2М, четыре ЗСУ-23-4 «Шилка», 500 ракет к ПЗРК «Игла», 150 ПТРК ''Конкурс», «Корнет» и полторы тысячи ракет к ним, 300 ед. From the Transcaucasian republics of Bulgaria won 14 of 120 - mm mortar rounds, 12 anti-aircraft installations ZU-23-2M, four ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", 500 missiles to MANPADS "Igla", 150 PTRK''Competition "," Cornet "and fifteen hundred missiles to them, 300 units. РПГ-7, четыре самолета Су-25, малые десантные корабли «Гурия» и «Атия», 10 тыс. ящиков с автоматами Калашникова, РПГ-22 и боеприпасами, партию боеприпасов общим весом более 650 тонн. RPG-7, four Su-25 aircraft, the small landing ships "Guria" and "Atiya", 10 thousand boxes with Kalashnikov assault rifles, RPG-22 and ammunition, ammunition shipment weighing more than 650 tons. Сюда вошли около 1 миллиона патронов к легкому стрелковому оружию, 578 выстрелов к 82-мм миномету, 70 выстрелов к 120-мм миномету и 1100 ручных гранат. These included about 1 million rounds of ammunition for small arms, 578 rounds of 82 - mm mortar rounds 70 to 120 - 1100 mm mortars and hand grenades. Этим болгаро-грузинское военное сотрудничество не ограничивается. This Bulgarian Georgian military cooperation is not limited. Ожидается поставка 250 ракет к ПТРК «Фактория», 50 тыс. снарядов к 122-мм гаубицам Д-30 и другую продукцию военного назначения общим весом до 220 т. It is expected to supply 250 missiles systems "factors", 50 to 122 thousand shells - mm howitzer D-30 and other products for military use, weighing up to 220 tons
Венгрия тоже не осталась в стороне и передала Грузии 66 БТРов, 1186 автоматов АМД-65, 44 пулемета ПКМ, 600 выстрелов к 82-мм минометам, 5 тыс. дымовых гранат и большое количество боеприпасов калибра 7,62x39 мм. Hungary also has not remained aloof and referred BTRov Georgia 66, 1186 AMD-65 rifles, 44 PKM machine guns, 600 rounds of 82 - mm mortars, 5 thousand smoke grenades and a large quantity of ammunition 7,62 x39 mm calibre.
Помощь от Греции Грузия получила в виде ракетного катера «Диоскурия», сторожевых катеров «Иверия» и «Местия», 3 тыс. комплектов обмундирования, 10 радиопередатчиков RACAL ORN-4720 и 60 минометов на общую сумму более 184 тыс. евро. Help from Greece Georgia received in the form of missile boats "Dioskuriya", patrol boats "Iveria" and "Place", 3 thousand sets of uniforms, radios 10 RACAL ORN-4720 and 60 mortar rounds totalling more than 184 thousand euros. Планируется поставить два корвета и ракетный катер проекта «Комбатанте-2» французского производства. Plans to put two and missile corvette boat project "Kombatante-2" French production.
Переданное Грузии Латвией и Литвой, а это преимущественно радиооборудование и 14 тыс. единиц автоматов Калашникова, ничто по сравнению с тем, что было получено от Турции. Sends Georgia Latvia and Lithuania, which is predominantly radio equipment and 14 thousand pieces of Kalashnikovs, nothing compared to what was received from Turkey. Эта страна предоставила 60 бронетранспортеров RN-94, 2 вертолета UH-1 «Ирокез», 2.500 автоматов МР5 А1(К), 1.500 штурмовых винтовок G3 A3, 500 гранатометов Т-40, 4.000 шт. This country has provided 60 RN-94 armoured personnel carriers, 2 helicopter UH-1 "Mohawk", 2.500 rifles MP5 A1 (K), 1,500 assault rifles G3 A3, 500 T-40 grenade launchers, 4,000 pieces. 122-мм реактивных снарядов, 20.000 шт. 122-mm rockets, 20,000 pcs. 155-мм снарядов, 21,6 тыс. патронов 12,7x99 мм и 320 тыс. пистолетных патронов 9x19 мм на сумму 169,5 тыс. долл., большое количество ручных гранат, противопехотных и минометных мин, патрульный катер «Кутаиси», оборудование связи и навигации, радиотехническое оборудование, 7 комплектов спутниковой системы навигации GPS, партию автомобилей «Лендровер», «Ман», оборудование связи и навигации, 10 комплектов легкого водолазного снаряжения и другое военное имущество и снаряжение на общую сумму 730 тыс. долл. Кроме того, планируется поставить до 100 ББМ, 50 ПЗРК «Анза-2» пакистанского производства, катера типа «Кылыч-2», патрульные катера различного водоизмещения (от 40 до 150 тонн), ракетные катера типа «Доган», 2 тральщика и 2 десантных корабля, систему раннего предупреждения о воздушном нападении и управления зенитными средствами «Скайвотчер», 20 миноискателей TV/PSS-12, 20 миноискателей TV/MD, 80 автоматов МР5 MTS A6 (в комплект каждого входят пять магазинов и лазерный прицел) на сумму 126,4 тыс. евро., 61 комплект зарядов разминирования, 1.800 РПГ М-72, 2.000 подствольных гранатометов, 10 млн. патронов калибра 5,45, 160 пистолетов-пулеметов МР5А3, 25 тыс. комплектов снаряжения. 155-mm shells, 21.6 thousand rounds of ammunition 12,7 x99 mm and 320 thousand pistola 9x19 mm rounds in the amount of $ 169.5 thousand, a large number of hand grenades, mortar and anti-personnel mines, patrol boat "Kutaisi", equipment Communications and navigation equipment Alarms, 7 sets of satellite navigation system GPS, cars party "Lendrover", "Man", communications and navigation equipment, 10 sets of diving gear lung and other military equipment and equipment for a total amount of 730 thousand U.S. Furthermore , Is scheduled to deliver up to 100 personnel carrier, 50 MANPADS "Anza-2" Pakistani production, boat type "Kylych-2", patrol boats of various sizes (from 40 to 150 tons), missile boats type "Dogan", 2 minesweeper and 2 landing craft , The early warning system on the air attack and control aircraft means "Skayvotcher", 20 minesweepers TV/PSS-12, 20 minesweepers TV / MD, 80 rifles MP5 MTS A6 (in each kit includes five stores and laser sight) amounting to 126.4 thousands of euros., 61 sets of charges mine, 1,800 RPG M-72, 2,000 rifle grenades, 10-calibre 5.45 million rounds, 160 machine guns, pistols MR5A3, 25 thousand sets of equipment. Турция с 1997 года предоставила грузинским силовым ведомствам финансовую помощь на сумму около 45 млн. долл., а также выделила 2,65 млн. долл. на приобретение систем ПВО. Turkey since 1997 has provided the Georgian authorities the power financial assistance worth about U.S. $ 45 million, and allocated 2.65 million dollars for the purchase of air defense systems.
На этом фоне военная помощь, полученная от Франции, выглядит менее скромной. Against this backdrop, military assistance received from France, is less modest. Пока эта страна поставила в Грузию одну РЛС. So far this country has one radar station in Georgia. Правда, скоро ожидается очередная партия вооружения в виде 4 самолетов «Мираж» 2000, 48 ПЗРК «Мистраль», 25 мобильных комплексов ATLAS, оснащенных ракетами «Мистраль-2», ЗРК САМП/Т с ракетами «Астер-30»' и 2 корветов типа «Говинд». However, another batch expected soon in the form of weapons of 4 aircraft "Mirage" 2000, 48 MANPADS "Mistral", 25 mobile sets ATLAS, equipped with missiles "Mistral-2", ZRK SAMP / T with missiles "Aster-30" 'and 2 corvette type "Govind".
А вот Чехия не поскупилась и предоставила Грузии 120 танков Т-54 (Т-55), 55 танков Т-72, 24 ед. But not poskupilas Czech Republic and gave Georgia 120 T-54 tanks (T-55), 55 T-72 tanks, 24 units. 152-мм самоходных гаубиц «Дана», 36 ед. 152-mm howitzer self "Dana", 36 units. 122-мм гаубиц Д-30, 25 ед. 122-mm howitzer D-30, 25 units. 120-мм минометов М-75, 6 122-мм РСЗО RM-70, 200 ПЗРК «Стрела-2М» и огромную партию боеприпасов. 120-mm mortar shells M-75, 6 122 - mm MRLS RM-70, 200 MANPADS "Strela 2M" and a huge batch of ammunition. В одном 2004 году военные склады Грузии пополнились 3,5 млн. патронами калибра 7,62 мм. In one 2004, Georgia joined the military warehouses 3.5 million rounds of ammunition 7.62 mm calibre.
Израиль поставил по 4 беспилотных летательных аппарата «Гермес-450» и «Скайларк», 100 переносных зарядов разминирования для прокладки проходов в противотанковых минных полях H-PEMBS, 50 переносных зарядов разминирования для проделывания проходов в противопехотных минных полях L-PEMBS, 500 комплектов маскировочных сетей. Israel has put on 4 unmanned aircraft "Hermes-450" and "Skaylark", 100 portable mine charges for laying anti-tank passages in minefields H-PEMBS, 50 portable mine charges for prodelyvaniya passages in the minefield of anti-L-PEMBS, 500 sets of camouflage networks. Планируется поставить танки и бронетранспортеры, автомобили «Суфа», стрелковое оружие и средства радиоэлектронной разведки. Plans to put tanks and armoured personnel carriers, cars "Sufa", small arms and means of electronic intelligence.
Помощь в оснащении национальных вооруженных сил Грузия получила также от Боснии и Герцеговины. Assistance in equipping the national armed forces of Georgia has also received from Bosnia and Herzegovina. Так, было поставлено 45 ед. So, was delivered 45 units. 120-мм минометов М75, 25 ед. 120-mm mortar shells M75, 25 units. 82-мм минометов М69А и 500 262-мм реактивных снарядов к РСЗО М-87 '»Оркан»'. 82-mm mortar shells M69A and 500 262 - mm rockets to MRLS M-87 ' "Orkan"'.
Не осталась в стороне и Сербия. There remained on the sidelines and Serbia. Эта балканская страна предоставила Грузии 20 млн. патронов 7,62x39 мм, 370 пистолетов, 50 помповых ружей, 3570 пиропатронов, 390 122-мм дымовых снарядов SMOKE M-60, 1 тыс. This Balkan country of Georgia has granted 20 million rounds 7,62 x39 mm, 370 pistols, pump guns 50, 3570 release, 390 122 - mm smoke shells SMOKE M-60, 1 thousand
125-мм кумулятивных снарядов НЕАТ-Т М-8Р1, 1,69 тыс. 125-мм бронебойных подкалиберных снарядов APFSDS-T М-88, 76,56 тыс. основных зарядов М-80 для 60-мм мин НЕМ-J3Т, 13 тыс. основных зарядов М-45РЗ для 125-mm shells cumulative NEAT-M T-8R1, 1.69 thousand 125 - armour-mm shells podkalibernyh APFSDS-T M-88, 76.56 thousand main charges M-80 to 60 - mm mortar NEM T-J3, 13 Thousands of major charges for M-45RZ
82-мм мин НЕМ-68Р1Т, 15 тыс. сигнальных мин SHORT CARTRIDGE ILLUMINATING. 82-mm mortar NEM-68R1T, 15 thousand mines signalling SHORT CARTRIDGE ILLUMINATING. На Украине Грузия приобрела 31 танк Т-72, 20 БТР-80, 40 БМП-2, 12 самоходных гаубиц «Акация», 10 самолетов Л-29, 9 вертолетов Ми-24, 2 Ми-8МТ, 2 Ми-4, 10 ЗРК «Оса - АКМ», комплекс РТР «Кольчуга - М», запасные части для вертолетов, ракетный катер «Тбилиси» (бывший «Конотоп»), сторожевой катер «Георгий Торели» (поисково-спасательный катер проекта 205П), 2 РЛС 36Д6-М, 2 инженерные машины заграждения ИМР-2, 2 путепрокладчика БАТ-2, партию автомобилей «КрАЗ-6510, 40 тонн боеприпасов к стрелковому оружию. In Ukraine, Georgia purchased 31 T-72, 20 BTR-80, 40 BMP-2, 12 mobile howitzer "Acacia", 10 aircraft L-29, 9 MI-24 helicopters, 2 MI-8MT, 2 Mi-4, 10 MANPADS "Osa - AKM", a set RTR "Kolchuga - M", spare parts for helicopters, missile boat "Tbilisi" (formerly "Konotop"), gunboat "Georgy Toreli" (search and rescue boat project P 205), 2 radars 36 D6 - M, 2 engineering machines barricades IMR-2, 2 puteprokladchika BAT-2, party car "KrAZ-6510, 40 tons of ammunition for small arms. Планируется поставить 25 БТР-80, 20 БМП-2, 3 РСЗО «Смерч», 12 самоходных гаубиц 2С3 «Акация» и «Дана», 6 ЗРК «Бук», 50 ПЗРК «Игла-1» и 400 ракет, 10 боевых вертолетов, 300 снайперских винтовок СВД, 10 тыс. автоматов АК-74, 1 тыс. РПГ-7В, 60 млн. патронов 5,45х39, 30 млн. патронов 7,62х39, 5 тыс. выстрелов к РПГ-7В, противотанковые мины - 25 тонн, противопехотные мины - 70 тонн, 100 двигателей для танков Т-55. Plans to put 25 BTR-80, 20 BMP-2, 3 MRLS "Smerch", 12 self-howitzers 2 S3 "Acacia" and "Dana", 6 ZRK "Buk", 50 MANPADS "Igla-1" and 400 missiles, 10 armed helicopters , 300 SVD sniper rifles, 10 thousand AK-74, 1 thousand RPG-7V, 60 million rounds 5.45 х39, 30 million rounds 7.62 х39, 5 thousand rounds of RPG-7V, anti-tank mines - 25 tons, anti-personnel mines - 70 tons, 100 engines for T-55 tanks.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redstar.ru%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ru&tl=en

Thanks to XR500Final for doing this.

[themime]

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney says Russia's military actions in Georgia "must not go unanswered."

Cheney spoke Sunday afternoon with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili. "The vice president expressed the United States' solidarity with the Georgian people and their democratically elected government in the face of this threat to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Cheney's press secretary, Lee Ann McBride, said.

Cheney told Saakashvili "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States, as well as the broader international community," McBride said.

Ooops!

[myeika]

Quote:
WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney says Russia's military actions in Georgia "must not go unanswered."

Cheney spoke Sunday afternoon with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili. "The vice president expressed the United States' solidarity with the Georgian people and their democratically elected government in the face of this threat to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Cheney's press secretary, Lee Ann McBride, said.

Cheney told Saakashvili "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States, as well as the broader international community," McBride said.
Ooops!


BIG Ooops!!!!!!!

[themime]

Russian troops now crossing over into Georgia, they say they cannot deal with the "War Criminal" Georgian PM.

Strong words.

Gordon Brown saying the "fighting must stop."

Pointless words.

[whitenight639]

Russian troops now crossing over into Georgia, they say they cannot deal with the "War Criminal" Georgian PM.

Strong words.

Gordon Brown saying the "fighting must stop."

Pointless words.


:eek: link please?

[mercuryrapids]

Civilian Genocide, Dead Americans Cost Of U.S.-Russia Proxy War - Media portrays US/NATO client state Georgia as victim despite war crimes provocation to launch conflict (http://www.prisonplanet.com/civilian-genocide-dead-americans-cost-of-us-russia-proxy-war.html)

[themime]

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080811\ACQDJON200808111035D OWJONESDJONLINE000288.htm&selected=9999&selecteddisplaysymbol=9999&StoryTargetFrame=_top&mkt=W

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080811\ACQDJON200808111031D OWJONESDJONLINE000285.htm&selected=9999&selecteddisplaysymbol=9999&StoryTargetFrame=_top&mkt=WORLD&chk=unchecked&lang=&link=&headlinereturnpage=http://www.international.na

I'll find public links to the other stuff.

[themime]

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/270195.asp

[whitenight639]

thanks Themine, ive just seen it on the BBC they all anti russia.

[mercuryrapids]

Speaking of the Beeb, their latest report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7554507.stm) says that Russian troops have moved into Georgia proper. The report also has a map of the region and, for some reason, highlights the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44912000/gif/_44912621_georgia_v4_466.gif

[whitenight639]

also I noticed in one of the bbc's clips it showed a picture of a hummer, the hummer is made in america and has been supplied to them by the yanks you wouldnt think they would show it.

[seeker1111]

also I noticed in one of the bbc's clips it showed a picture of a hummer, the hummer is made in america and has been supplied to them by the yanks you wouldnt think they would show it.

your average person would probably never make that connection so they probably don't care

[themime]

Could be Blackwater.

[romas]

Would Bush like to have 3000 Georgian troops removed from Iraq?

Would Bush increase the Georgian military budget 30 times just to have it destroyed?

Would Bush build up a pro-American government in Georgia just to have it overthrown?

Would Putin/Medvedev like to have Americans moving in weapon systems into East Europe?

Would Putin like to have a pro-American Georgian government OR would he like to overthrow it and set up a pro-Russian government in Georgia?

Would Putin like to bomb the oil pipelines in Georgia to weaken the East European countries that have become pro-American and received and installed American weapon systems?



Very good questions :)

[stelios]

War in Georgia: The Israeli connection

For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice
Arie Egozi

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3580136,00.html

The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.

The Defense Ministry held a special meeting Sunday to discuss the various arms deals held by Israelis in Georgia, but no change in policy has been announced as of yet.


Advice

Foreign Ministry warns Israelis against traveling to Georgia / Roee Nahmias

Ministry ups travel warning due to ongoing military conflict with Russia, asks Israelis already in Georgia to contact embassy in Tbilsi or ministry's situation room in Israel
Full story

"The subject is closely monitored," said sources in the Defense Ministry. "We are not operating in any way which may counter Israeli interests. We have turned down many requests involving arms sales to Georgia; and the ones which have been approves have been duly scrutinized. So far, we have placed no limitations on the sale of protective measures."


Israel began selling arms to Georgia about seven years ago following an initiative by Georgian citizens who immigrated to Israel and became businesspeople.

"They contacted defense industry officials and arms dealers and told them that Georgia had relatively large budgets and could be interested in purchasing Israeli weapons," says a source involved in arms exports.



The military cooperation between the countries developed swiftly. The fact that Georgia's defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation.


"His door was always open to the Israelis who came and offered his country arms systems made in Israel," the source said. "Compared to countries in Eastern Europe, the deals in this country were conducted fast, mainly due to the defense minister's personal involvement."


Among the Israelis who took advantage of the opportunity and began doing business in Georgia were former Minister Roni Milo and his brother Shlomo, former director-general of the Military Industries, Brigadier-General (Res.) Gal Hirsch and Major-General (Res.) Yisrael Ziv.

Roni Milo conducted business in Georgia for Elbit Systems and the Military Industries, and with his help Israel's defense industries managed to sell to Georgia remote-piloted vehicles (RPVs), automatic turrets for armored vehicles, antiaircraft systems, communication systems, shells and rockets.


According to Israeli sources, Gal Hirsch gave the Georgian army advice on the establishment of elite units such as Sayeret Matkal and on rearmament, and gave various courses in the fields of combat intelligence and fighting in built-up areas.

http://www.nkusa.org/images/flag-ani.gif

[romas]

Georgia's president Mikheil Saakashvili is not a CIA puppet, he is a FRENCH puppet!!!!!

"He received an LLM from Columbia Law School in 1994 and Doctor of Laws degree from The George Washington University Law School the following year. In 1995, he also received a diploma from the International Institute of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

The CIA has been had, has been fooooooooled!!!

:eek::eek::eek:



Notice how French submarines are part of operation brimstone? The Sarko policy is very different to that of Cheraque(spelling?).

[romas]

also I noticed in one of the bbc's clips it showed a picture of a hummer, the hummer is made in america and has been supplied to them by the yanks you wouldnt think they would show it.


Or Israeli, like it has been pointed out ;)

[pheony]

Read on a news site today...Cant remember which one as i was taking a sneaky look while at work, that ' America is helping Georgian troops to get back from Iraq to their homeland Georgia' hum... I live in East London and have heard Jets flying overheard every hour or so for the past couple of days, i cant see them so they must be high. There are normal passenger Jets flying over all the time which i can see but never hear so its not them. Has anyone one else in london heard them? Its not a normal occurance.

[element]

Dutch media hardly pays any attention to such serious news.

''It's all under control again''

[child of god]

Read on a news site today...Cant remember which one as i was taking a sneaky look while at work, that ' America is helping Georgian troops to get back from Iraq to their homeland Georgia' hum... I live in East London and have heard Jets flying overheard every hour or so for the past couple of days, i cant see them so they must be high. There are normal passenger Jets flying over all the time which i can see but never hear so its not them. Has anyone one else in london heard them? Its not a normal occurance. i have noticed increase ariel activity and small sesna type planes "chem trailing" like mad. getting us ready for martial law i say.. when iran is bombed the economies will collapse.. $250 a barrel plus oil.. end game has begun:(

[pheony]

i have noticed increase ariel activity and small sesna type planes "chem trailing" like mad. getting us ready for martial law i say.. when iran is bombed the economies will collapse.. $250 a barrel plus oil.. end game has begun:(

Yes there's definetly something going on.

[niftymage]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/7016/Georgian_President_loses_presence_of_mind/

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/7017/Putin__USA_hampering_Russian_peace_efforts/

[Anders Lindman]

Notice how French submarines are part of operation brimstone? The Sarko policy is very different to that of Cheraque(spelling?).

And isn't it interesting how involved Sarkozy is in this conflict. Of course, he is the current EU president or whatever it's called, but anyway (maybe that's no coincidence! :eek:).

[strossus]

Bush is apparently supposed to speak to the nation on CNN in a little bit.

Will be interesting to see what he says, I don't think this is getting better any time soon though. I have a bad feeling.

[pheony]

Bush is apparently supposed to speak to the nation on CNN in a little bit.

Will be interesting to see what he says, I don't think this is getting better any time soon though. I have a bad feeling.

Your right its not looking good.

[whitenight639]

i have noticed increase ariel activity and small sesna type planes "chem trailing" like mad. getting us ready for martial law i say.. when iran is bombed the economies will collapse.. $250 a barrel plus oil.. end game has begun:(

Yes, as Jeramy clarkson said on top gear the other night, all fascist states (cant think of the right word) start with restricting travel, so there plans for iran are perfect as the oil price will rocket like you say and restrict travel to the very wealthy, then people will stat to riot and as david icke says the civil enforecement officers and traffic wardens that have been given there pace cards (legal thing police officers have to say when arresting people) will get to use them and we will all be under martial law and the new world order will be in concrete effect this could happen in a matter of weeks.

the future isnt looking so bright.

[pheony]

Is it my imagination or did Bush make a mistake in his speech and say something about "overthrowing the Russian Government" then correcting himself to say the Georgian government????

[pheony]

He said " to depose Russia's government" does'nt make sense ,or does it??

[seercirra]

there is basically martial law now in arkansas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDqSROFzDPk

and ive just watched news night.
for someone like me, watching a program like this can be more frightening than actually absorbing information.
frightening because you can see how much they are manipulating and editing the story.
i KNOW, that this is a giant problem, from the media reaction.

amongst many other things, the presenter would refer to georgia as a
"small, beautiful democracy"

the interview with the russian was edited to fuck.

when talking about what the west will do, she stated:
"all this shows is the wests impotence in this area".. oh god, mind control again. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE POTENCY IN THIS AREA. IT IS NOT OUR HOME!

not in the whole show did they mention georgia attacked russia, infact they continually said "russia attacks on georgia have continued today" drawing the picture that georgia have done nothing. after all, theyre just a "small, beautiful democracy".

another point is that their reporter was asking georgian officials if they "made a big miscalculation in attacking russia."

but they DIDNT SHOW HALF THE SENTANCE.
just : "have you made a miscalculation...." then its edited.

stinks stinks stinks

[strossus]

I believe the neocons feel they are running out of time, that too many people are waking up and are getting too close to the truth.

They are pushing it, probably giving it everything they can to provoke a large war, possibly cancel the elections in the states, declare martial law etc... scary scary times.

[sannox]

http://www.33ff.com/flags/XL_flags/Georgia_flag.gif


interesting flag .

[h2pogo]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/%e2%80%98this-is-genocide%e2%80%99-american-witness-says-us-and-georgia-to-answer-for-violence.html

more confirmation that the uk , us and israel support genocide.
we must spread this information to expose these f****s before its too late.

[eyepod]

Bush's War in Georgia; Will it be the Flyswatter or the Blunderbuss?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9791

“I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings and in cars. It’s impossible to count them now. There's hardly a single building left undamaged.” Lyudmila Ostayeva, resident of Tskhinvali, South Ossetia

Washington's bloody fingerprints are all over the invasion of South Ossetia. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili would never dream of launching a massive military attack unless he got explicit orders from his bosses at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. After all, Saakashvili owes his entire political career to American power-brokers and US intelligence agencies. If he disobeyed them, he'd be gone in a fortnight. Besides an operation like this takes months of planning and logistical support; especially if it's perfectly timed to coincide with the beginning of the Olympic games. (another petty neocon touch) That means Pentagon planners must have been working hand in hand with Georgian generals for months in advance. Nothing was left to chance.

Another tell-tale sign of US complicity is the way President Bush has avoided ordering Georgian troops to withdraw from a province that has been under the protection of international peacekeepers. Remember how quickly Bush ordered Sharon to withdraw from his rampage in Jenin? Apparently it's different when the aggression serves US interests.

Saakashvili has been working closely with the Bush administration ever since he replaced Eduard Shevardnadze as president in 2003. That's when US-backed NGOs and western intelligence agencies toppled the Shevardnadze regime in the so-called color-coded "Rose Revolution". Since then, Saakashvili has done everything that's been asked of him; he's built up the military and internal security apparatus, he's allowed US advisers to train and arm Georgian troops, he's applied for membership in NATO, and he's been a general nuisance to his Russian neighbors. Now, he has sent his army into battle ostensibly on Washington's orders. At least, that is how the Kremlin sees it. Vladimir Vasilyev, the Chairman of Russia's State Duma Security Committee, summed up the feelings of many Russians like this: "The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. In essence, the Americans have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals."

True. That's why Bush is flying Georgian troops back home from Iraq to join the fighting rather than pursuing peaceful alternatives. Bush still believes that political solutions will naturally arise through the use of force. Unfortunately, his record is rather spotty.

But that still doesn't answer the larger question: Why would Saakashvili embark on such a pointless military adventure when he had no chance of winning? After all, Russia has 20 times the firepower and has been conducting military maneuvers anticipating this very scenario for months. Does Uncle Sam really want another war that bad or is the fighting in South Ossetia is just head-fake for a larger war that is brewing in the Straits of Hormuz?

Mikhail Saakashvili is a western educated lawyer and a favorite of the neocons. He rose to power on a platform of anti-corruption and economic reform which emphasized free market solutions and privatization. Instead of raising the standard of living for the Georgian people, Saakashvili has been running up massive deficits to expand the over-bloated military. Saakashvili has made huge purchases of Israeli and US-made (offensive) weapon systems and has devoted more than "4.2% of GDP (more than a quarter of all Georgian public income) to military hardware.

The Chairman of Russia's State Duma Security Committee, Vladimir Vasiliyev, summed it up like this:

"Georgia could have used the years of Saakashvili's presidency in different ways - to build up the economy, to develop the infrastructure, to solve social issues both in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the whole state. Instead, the Georgian leadership with president Saakashvili undertook consistent steps to increase its military budget from US$30 million to $1 billion - Georgia was preparing for a military action." Naturally, Russia is worried about these developments and has brought the matter up repeatedly at the United Nations but to no avail.

Israeli arms manufacturers have also been supplying Saakashvili with state-of-the-art weaponry. According to Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz:

"In addition to the spy drones, Israel has also been supplying Georgia with infantry weapons and electronics for artillery systems, and has helped upgrade Soviet-designed Su-25 ground attack jets assembled in Georgia, according to Koba Liklikadze, an independent military expert in Tbilisi. Former Israeli generals also serve as advisers to the Georgian military." ("Following Russian pressure, Israel freezes defense sales to Georgia" Associated Press)

The Israeli news source DebkaFile elaborates on the geopolitical implications of Israeli involvement in the Georgia's politics:

"The conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region....The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean." (Paul Joseph Watson, "US Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia")

The United States and Israel are both neck-deep in the "Great Game"; the ongoing war for vital petroleum and natural gas supplies in Central Asia and the Caspian Basin. So far, Putin appears to have the upper-hand because of his alliances with his regional allies–under the Commonwealth of Independent States—and because most of the natural gas from Eurasia is pumped through Russian pipelines. An article in “Today’s Zaman” gives a good snapshot of Russia’s position vis a vis natural resources in the region:

“As far as natural resources are concerned Russia’s hand is very strong: It holds 6.6 percent of the worlds proven oil reserves and 26 percent of the world’s gas reserves. In addition, it currently accounts for 12 percent of world oil and 21 of recent world gas production. In May 2007, Russia was the world’s largest oil and gas producer.

As for national champions, Putin has strengthened and prepared Gazprom (the state-controlled gas company), Transneft (oil pipeline monopoly) and Rosneft (the state-owned oil giant). That is why in 2006 Gazprom retained full ownership in the giant Shtokman gas field (7) and took a controlling stake in the Sakhalin-2 natural gas project. In June 2007, it took back BP’s Kovytka gas field and now is behind Total’s Kharyaga oil and gas field.” (“Vladimir Putin’s Energystan and the Caspian” Today’s Zaman)

Putin–the black belt Judo-master–has proved to be as adept at geopolitics as he is at “deal-making”. He has collaborated with the Austrian government on a huge natural gas depot in Austria which will facilitate the transport of gas to southern Europe. He has joined forces with German industry to build an underwater pipeline through the Baltic to Germany (which could provide 80% of Germany’s gas requirements) He has selected France’s Total to assist Gazprom in the development of the massive Shtokman gas field. And he is setting up pipeline corridors to provide gas to Turkey and the Balkans. Putin has very deliberately spread Russia’s influence evenly throughout Europe with the intention of severing the Transatlantic Alliance and, eventually, loosening America’s vice-like grip on the continent.

Putin’s overtures to Germany’s Merkel and France’s Sarkozy are calculated to weaken the resolve of Bush’s neocon allies in the EU and put them in Russia’s corner. Putin is also attracting considerable foreign investment to Russian markets and has adopted “a ‘new model of cooperation’ in the energy sector that would ‘allow foreign partners to share in the economic benefits of the project, share the management, and take on a share of the industrial, commercial and financial risks’”. (M K Bhadrakumar “Russia plays the Shtokman card”, Asia Times) All of these are intended to strengthen ties between Europe and Russia and make it harder for the Bush administration to isolate Moscow.

Putin has played his cards very wisely, which makes it look like the fighting in South Ossetia may be Washington's way of trying to win through military force what they could not achieve via the free market.

On Saturday, President Bush issued this statement from Beijing: "We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings and a return by the parties to the status quo of August 6th."

That was it. Bush then quickly returned to the Olympic festivities. He was last spotted at a photo op with the US girls volleyball team jumping up and down on the beach-sand in his wingtips. The pretense that Bush is leading the country has seemingly been abandoned altogether. Cheney is in charge now.

Meanwhile, Putin boarded a plane to Moscow as soon as he heard about the Georgian invasion and after angrily waving his finger in Bush's face. It's doubtful that the friendship between the two leaders will survive the present storm. America's gambit in the Caucasus has aroused the sleeping bear and put Russia on the warpath. There's no telling when the hostilities might end. The conflagration could sweep across the entire region. Currently, news agencies are reporting that Russian warplanes are pounding Georgia's military bases, airfields, and the Black sea port of Poti.

According to Bill Van Auken on the World Socialist Web Site:

"Much of the city (Tskhinvali) was reportedly in flames Friday. The regional parliament building had burned down, the university was on fire, and the town’s main hospital had been rendered inoperative by the bombardment."

Vesti radio reported that Georgian forces burned down a church in Tanara in South Ossetia where people were hiding, to the ground, with all the people inside. The Deputy Director of an information agency as an eye witness reported that fragments of cluster bombs of were found in Tskinvali. There have also been reports by a South Ossetian reservist that civilians who were hiding in basements were shot dead by Georgian soldiers.

Wikipedia reports that, "Russian soldiers captured group of American mercenaries on territory of South Ossetia. Group was captured near of Zare village."

An estimated 1,500 people have died in the onslaught and 30,000 more fled across the Russian border. Large swaths of the city have been reduced to rubble including the one hospital that was pounded by Georgia bombers. Georgia has cut off the water supply to the city.The Red Cross now anticipates a "humanitarian catastrophe" as a result of the fighting.

“I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars,” Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, told the Associated Press after fleeing the city with her family to a village near the Russian border. “It’s impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged.”

At least 15 Russia peacekeepers were killed in the initial fighting and 70 more were sent to hospital. Georgia's army stormed the South Ossetia capital, Tskhinvali, killing more than 1,000 fleeing civilians. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin told news agencies in an interview how the hostilities began:

Russian peacekeepers "were killed by their own [Georgian] partners in the peacekeeping forces. There is a Russian battalion, an Ossetian battalion, and a Georgian battalion... and all of a sudden the Georgians, Georgian peacekeepers, begin shooting their Russian colleagues. This is of course a war crime. I do not rule out that the Hague and Strasbourg courts and institutions in other cities will be involved in investigating these crimes, and this inhuman drama that has been played out."

According to South Ossetia's president, Eduard Kokoyti, Georgian troops had been taking part in NATO exercises in the region since the beginning of August. Kokoyti claims that there is a connection between the NATO's activities and the current violence.

Clearly, no one was expecting Russia to react as quickly or as forcefully as they did. In a matter of hours Russian tanks and armored vehicles were streaming over the border while warplanes bombed targets throughout the south. The Bush-Saakashvili strategy unraveled in a matter of hours. The Georgia president is already calling for a cease-fire. He's had enough.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has promised to spend $400 million to rebuild parts of South Ossetia. Large shipments of food and medical supplies are already on the way.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday:

"The actions of Georgia have led to deaths - among them are Russian peacekeepers. The situation reached the point that Georgian peacekeepers have been shooting at Russian peacekeepers. Now women, children and old people are dying in South Ossetia - most of them are citizens of the Russian Federation. As the President of the Russian Federation, I am obligated to protect lives and the dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are. Those responsible for the deaths of our citizens will be punished."

Indeed, but how will Medvedev bring the responsible people to justice; with tanks and fighter pilots or is there another way?

PUTIN'S OPTIONS: Flyswatter or Blunderbuss?

Sometimes wars provide clarity. That's certainly true in this case. After this weekends fighting, everyone in the Russian political establishment knows that Washington is willing to sacrifice thousands of innocent civilians and plunge the entire region into chaos to achieve its geopolitical objectives. Bush could call the whole thing off right now; Putin and Medvedev know that. But that's not the game-plan. So, the two Russian leaders have to make some tough decisions that will end up costing lives. What other choice do they have?

Putin needs to carefully weigh his options. Then, on Monday, he should announce that Russia will sell all $50 billion of its Fannie Mae mortgage-backed bonds, all of it US dollar-backed assets, and will accept only rubles and euros in the future sale of Russian oil and natural gas. Just watch as the dollar crashes and the Dow Jones goes into a death-spiral. Why use a blunderbuss when a flyswatter will do just fine.

[pheony]

Thankyou for that.

[cleopatraxxx]

this has been a great topic. thank you all

very sad news they all are

[the itinerant shrubber]

Military operations are stopping.

[strossus]

Yeah, it is on BBC right now, watching on TV.

[pheony]

Good news:)

[cleopatraxxx]

stopping???
i wonder why they have started it then....
something is not ok behind the scenes...
hopefully it is not a strategic move to later surprisingly attack again...

lets see what happens.
BUT YES, WOULD BE VERY GOOD IF THIS STOPS FOR GOOD!

[pheony]

stopping???
i wonder why they have started it then....
something is not ok behind the scenes...
hopefully it is not a strategic move to later surprisingly attack again...

lets see what happens.
BUT YES, WOULD BE VERY GOOD IF THIS STOPS FOR GOOD!

Russian Jets continue to bomb villages in Georgia.

[element]

If you're following the media, there is simply no logic behind anything about this it seems.

[moonfly]

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28880
News
Send to friend | Print version August 12, 2008, 14:45

CNN accused of using misleading war footage
American broadcaster CNN has been accused of using misleading footage in their coverage of the conflict in South Ossetia. A Russian cameraman says footage of wrecked tanks and ruined buildings, which was purported to be the town of Gori, was in fact the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali.

Gori was said to be about to fall under the control of the Russian army but the cameraman says the video was actually shot in Tskhinvali, which had been flattened by Georgian shelling.

Aleksandr Zhukov, from the Russiya Al-Yaum channel, said: “When we arrived and news came that Gori was being shelled, I saw my footage. I said: that’s not Gori! That’s Tskhinvali. Having crawled through the length and breadth of Tskhinvali, I don’t need much to tell from which point this or that footage was recorded. I can swear in front of any tribunal. I can point at this location on the map of the town, because I and the cameraman of the Rossiya channel videotaped that.”

[stelios]

Israeli Has $1 Billion Invested in Georgia

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/images/toolbar/logo.jpg

(IsraelNN.com) The Israeli-Georgia connection is estimated to be worth $1 billion, according to a former Georgian ambassador to Israel. The Jewish state and private investors have provided military assistance and advisors to Georgia, where pipelines pump oil destined for Israel. A new pipeline is being built to bypass Russian territory.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that Israeli companies in Georgia have begun evacuating their staff and that Israeli tourists are leaving for home.

[Anders Lindman]

A thought that hit me is that the leading nations today seem more civilized than they were in the previous century. There may still be risks that the governments for these large nations do something that can threaten the overall stability in the world, but I guess the political climate today is mature enough to prevent that from happening.

[cleopatraxxx]

A thought that hit me is that the leading nations today seem more civilized than they were in the previous century. There may still be risks that the governments for these large nations do something that can threaten the overall stability in the world, but I guess the political climate today is mature enough to prevent that from happening.

lets hope you are right, for the benefit of the blue planet as a whole

[spiraltrance]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2916/84c213baac79691dfe2051cad4.jpg

[element]

Georgia president: Russia 'attacking' town
Georgia's president has accused Russia of violating the terms of a cease-fire deal by "rampaging" through the Georgian town of Gori. Residents in the town have told journalists that while they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, they were not in large numbers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html

What kind of games are they playing?:confused:

[strossus]

I had a feeling it wouldn't really be over.

If that info is true that is.

[shodan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/13/georgia.russia6

Georgian villages burned and looted as Russian tanks advanceMood of panic as eyewitnesses say ceasefire being broken by Russian military and 'irregulars'Luke Harding near Gori, Georgia, and James Meikle guardian.co.uk, Wednesday August 13 2008 11:40 BST Article history
Russian tanks near the Georgian city of Zugdidi. Photograph: Umit Bektas/Reuters

Villages in Georgia were being burned and looted as Russian tanks followed by "irregulars" advanced from the breakaway province of South Ossetia, eyewitnesses said today.

"People are fleeing, there is a mood of absolute panic. The idea there is a ceasefire is ridiculous," Luke Harding, the Guardian's correspondent, said.

Russia denied any advance, however Georgian authorities claimed that about 50 tanks and armoured vehicles were near the strategically important town of Gori.

Harding, watching villages near Gori burn, said witnesses had told him Russian military, including at least 25 tanks, had moved from the Russian-controlled South Ossetia into the villages.

"They asked villagers to hang white flags or handkerchiefs outside their houses if they did not want to be shot, they say."

The tanks had passed through the village of Rekha at about 11.20am local time. "Behind them (say eyewitnesses) is a whole column of irregulars who locals say are Chechens, Cossacks and Ossetians.

"Eyewitnesses say they are looting, killing and burning. These irregulars have killed three people and set fire to villages. They have been taking away young boys and girls," said Harding, watching smoke rise from another village, Karaleti.

It appeared that Russian tanks had entered Gori, targeting military installations, some built with Nato money.


Link to this audio
Earlier, Georgia said its troops had pulled out of the separatist region of Abkhazia today after the Kremlin laid down humiliating peace terms as the price for halting the Russian invasion and its four-day rout of Georgian forces.

The ceasefire required both sides to return to positions they held before the conflict started in South Ossetia last week.

Faced with strong western denunciation, President Dmitry Medvedev of Russia called a halt to the Russian offensive yesterday and negotiated terms for a truce and a broader settlement with President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, who, as chair of the European Union, rushed to the region to try to strike a deal on a ceasefire.

Early this morning in Tbilisi, Georgia's president, Mikheil Saakashvili, signalled his partial assent to the terms, announcing with Sarkozy that he accepted the ceasefire. But Saakashvili raised questions about a continuing Russian military presence in Georgia and the prospects for any durable settlement looked uncertain.

"We do not yet have a peace deal, we have a provisional cessation of hostilities; but this is significant progress," Sarkozy said after talks with Medvedev in Moscow and before taking the terms to Tbilisi.

The former Georgian president Eduard Shevardnadze was today quoted as saying Georgia made a "grave mistake" in advancing into South Ossetia.

In an interview with German newspaper Bild he said: "We have a tradition, that in times of crisis, the opposition stands united behind the president and does not attack him. But Georgia should not have advanced into Tskhinvali (South Ossetia's capital) in so unprepared a way. That was a grave error."

Medvedev branded Saakashvili a "lunatic" as he outlined tough terms to the French leader, in effect demanding Georgian capitulation to vastly superior Russian forces.

"The difference between lunatics and other people is that when they smell blood it is very difficult to stop them," Medvedev said. "So you have to use surgery."

The key demands are that the Georgian leader pledges, in an agreement that is signed and legally binding, to abjure all use of force to resolve Georgia's territorial disputes with the two breakaway pro-Russian provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia; and that Georgian forces withdraw entirely from South Ossetia and are no longer part of the joint "peacekeeping" contingent there with Russian and local forces.

Medvedev also insisted the populations of the two regions had to be allowed to vote on whether they wanted to join Russia, prefiguring a possible annexation that would enfeeble Georgia and leave Saakashvili looking crushed.

If he balked at the terms, said Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister: "We will be forced to take other measures to prevent any repetition of the situation that emerged because of the outrageous Georgian aggression."

Russian leaders consistently emphasise that Georgian forces perpetrated atrocities against civilians when Saakashvili gave the go-ahead last week for the bungled attempt to recapture South Ossetia.

The gamble triggered the onslaught which the US state department yesterday described as "plain and simple blatant aggression on the part of Russia".

Georgian forces have been part of the peacekeeping force in South Ossetia for the past 15 years. But Russian leaders declared yesterday the Georgians would not return, and South Ossetia would be under Russian control.

"They shot their brother Russian peacekeepers, then they finished them off with bayonets, so we are not going to see them there any more," said Dmitri Rogozin, the Russian ambassador to Nato in Brussels.

While Nato leaders in Brussels stressed that South Ossetia and Abkhazia were part of Georgia, Medvedev encouraged the secession of the two breakaway regions.

"Ossetians and Abkhaz must respond to that question taking their history into account, including what happened in the past few days," he said.

Western officials at Nato, in the EU, in the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, and in Washington, while calling for an immediate ceasefire, also demanded that Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity be upheld.

Following a meeting of Nato states yesterday, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Nato's secretary general, accused Russia of not respecting Georgia's territorial integrity. "Abkhazia and Ossetia, if I mention territorial integrity, are to the best of my knowledge part of Georgia." He added that "Nato is not seeking a direct role or a military role in this conflict".

The Russians have agreed to withdraw their troops from Georgia proper and return their "peacekeeping" contingent to positions held before the fighting. But until monitoring of the proposed ceasefire was up and running, the Russians reserved the right to take unspecified "additional security measures" in Georgia.

If the Russian terms are demeaning, Saakashvili's bargaining position is extremely weak given the virtual disintegration of his armed forces. Abandoned tanks litter the road between Tbilisi and Gori - dumped following Russia's swift advance deep into Georgia on Monday

[Anders Lindman]

lets hope you are right, for the benefit of the blue planet as a whole

Yes, and it's much because of the Internet which makes it difficult for manipulators to get away with too much spin.

[themime]

Sounds like the Cossacks have been let loose again.

[pheony]

Russia violating the ceasefire. I dont think this is over yet.

[moonfly]

I smell a set up in the works...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402982,00.html






WASHINGTON — President Bush has directed the U.S. military to lead a humanitarian mission to Georgia where tens of thousands have been forced out of their homes following a Russian invasion last week that has been described by Georgia's president as an "ethnic cleansing."

A U.S. C-17 aircraft with humanitarian supplies already has arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi and another C-17 will arrive there Thursday with additional medical and humanitarian aid, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said after the president's announcement.

Speaking from the White House Rose Garden with Defense Secretary Bob Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Bush said the aid mission will be "vigorous and ongoing." He warned Russia not to interfere.

"We expect Russia to honor its commitment to let in all forms of humanitarian assistance. We expect Russia to insure that all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, airports, roads and airspace, remain open for the delivery of humanitarian assistance and for civilian transit," Bush said.

The president's announcement was reportedly interpreted by Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, a close ally of the United States, to mean that the U.S. military would be taking control of Georgia's ports, but the Pentagon denied that was the case.

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Violence in Georgia "We are not looking to, nor do we need to, take control of any air or sea ports to conduct this mission," Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said.

Bush said he is also sending Rice to Tbilisi, to "personally convey America's unwavering support for the government of Georgia." Rice will travel beforehand to France to meet with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. Perino said Rice was to leave Wednesday evening.

"The United States stands with the democratic government of Georgia and insists that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia be respected," Bush said. "The United States strongly supports France's efforts as president of the European Union to broker an agreement to end this conflict."

The president spoke after a busy morning of briefings and phone conversations with Sarkozy and Saakashvili.

The administration also spent Wednesday morning trying to document whether Russia is violating the cease-fire it agreed to institute with the former Soviet Republic. FOX News confirmed that Russian tanks entered the city of Gori, just 40 miles from Tbilisi, on Wednesday, after they were supposed to have withdrawn.

"We expect Russia to meet its commitment to cease all military activities in Georgia, and we expect all Russian forces that have entered Georgia in recent days to withdraw from that country," Bush said.

"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations, and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis," he added.

Perino said that the administration "had credible reports that Russia is violating the cease-fire agreement, including, as (Bush) mentioned, the bombing of vessels and the blocking of the port, which we're very concerned about."

Nearly a week of bombings and rocket attacks has left heavy damage in Georgia. In a conference call with international reporters earlier in the day, Saakashvili predicted a humanitarian disaster, the result of 100,000 people being displaced from their homes in the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Russia wants to claim for itself. He also described "ethnic cleansing" in Gori, and said men and women are being separated and men put in internment camps.

Saakashvili said the U.S. and West underestimated Russia's regional ambitions and warned that "America's reputation here, since (the) Cold War, is going to hell now."

"We have been warning them a large scale Russian invasion is coming," Saakashvili said. "(The) State Department told us the Russians are not going to do that."

The Georgian president said Russia's "well planned invasion" is on a larger scale than the first days of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001." He also said he feared Georgia is just the first nation to be subjected to Russia's resurging territorial ambitions.

Saakashvili denied Georgia had provoked the conflict in South Ossetia as Russia has claimed.

"I'm sickened by speculation that Georgia started anything," he said, noting how he had to return to his country while on his way to the Olympics because Georgia had no choice but to "respond or to surrender."

The U.S.-educated Saakashvili credited Republican presidential candidate John McCain with predicting Russia's real intent, but did not make an endorsement in the U.S. presidential campaign.

[pheony]

What the hell is Bush trying to do?

[amethyst]

What about this?


Russians move 2 SS-21 Medium Range Ballistic Missile Launchers into South Ossetia


"Col. Sam Gardiner notes, in an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, Russia has deployed tactical nuclear weapons to South Ossetia."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/russians-move-2-ss-21-medium-range-ballistic-missile-launchers-into-south-ossetia.html

[pheony]

Not good.

[element]

Bush is just playing the friendly man that wants to bring peace.

Maybe that videogame will be right and Russia will conquer more countries.:eek:

[Anders Lindman]

I smell a set up in the works...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402982,00.html






WASHINGTON — President Bush has directed the U.S. military to lead a humanitarian mission to Georgia where tens of thousands have been forced out of their homes following a Russian invasion last week that has been described by Georgia's president as an "ethnic cleansing."

A U.S. C-17 aircraft with humanitarian supplies already has arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi and another C-17 will arrive there Thursday with additional medical and humanitarian aid, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said after the president's announcement.

Speaking from the White House Rose Garden with Defense Secretary Bob Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Bush said the aid mission will be "vigorous and ongoing." He warned Russia not to interfere.

"We expect Russia to honor its commitment to let in all forms of humanitarian assistance. We expect Russia to insure that all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, airports, roads and airspace, remain open for the delivery of humanitarian assistance and for civilian transit," Bush said.



Puzzling and disturbing this move by the Bush administration is. Notice the repeated use of the word 'humanitarian'. This is to make the U.S. military move into Georgia look 'good'. The alarming thing is that the real reason my be more like: "Bush said the aid mission will be "vigorous and ongoing." He warned Russia not to interfere." and not humanitarian at all.

[Anders Lindman]

"President Bush also said U.S. Defense Robert Gates will oversee a "vigorous and ongoing" humanitarian mission to Georgia involving aircraft and Naval forces. It was not immediately clear when the mission will begin. Video"

From: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html

:eek: Is that what the U.S. armada is meant for?

[pheony]

Puzzling and disturbing this move by the Bush administration is. Notice the repeated use of the word 'humanitarian'. This is to make the U.S. military move into Georgia look 'good'. The alarming thing is that the real reason my be more like: "Bush said the aid mission will be "vigorous and ongoing." He warned Russia not to interfere." and not humanitarian at all.

Yes and what happens if one of these "humanitarian" troops gets killed. Is this going to give Bush the excuse he needs to start a war with Russia? The stakes are too high surely? Im asking myself..has this whole thing been planned by Russia and America? Is this about oil, i heard that two massives oil sites are ready to go in Indonisia and Northen Russia? Is it about Russian border worries? I really hav'nt got a clue! Its very worrying though.

[steevo]

Puzzling and disturbing this move by the Bush administration is. Notice the repeated use of the word 'humanitarian'. This is to make the U.S. military move into Georgia look 'good'. The alarming thing is that the real reason my be more like: "Bush said the aid mission will be "vigorous and ongoing." He warned Russia not to interfere." and not humanitarian at all.

Bush and Brown illegally invade Iraq and other countries, and yet they criticize Russia for LEGALLY attacking Georgian aggressors. That's HILLARIOUS! :D Humanitarian ? They are taking this piss out of us all.

I think for American soldiers to go into Georgia, the soldiers would either have to be daft, microchipped or Blackwater (mercenaries). Surely American soldiers in general would clearly see that something VERY strange is going on here and it's probably gonna end in their death and FOR WHAT! Rumours must be rife amongst the army SURELY ? Anyone who's heart is in the war must be crazy. It's not as if it's 1914 or 1939 where the truth was easily hidden from the people.

Unfortunately, the "powers that be" use the guise of NATO and the United Nations "Peacekeeping" Forces to make any involvement by American soldiers (and others) SEEM legitimate. And also they pressure country's governments to send in their troops (and most governments will co-operate 100% because they Illuminati puppets).

A guest on the Alex Jones show speculated that Polish soldiers (in some way) would be used to fight Russians. That would be suicide for the Poles IMO. The guest on the Alex Jones show seemed think think that Poles hate Russians but the Poles that I know (GENERALLY SPEAKING) seemed to like Russians and dislike Germans cos of the war.

[steevo]

Yes and what happens if one of these "humanitarian" troops gets killed. Is this going to give Bush the excuse he needs to start a war with Russia? The stakes are too high surely? Im asking myself..has this whole thing been planned by Russia and America? Is this about oil, i heard that two massives oil sites are ready to go in Indonisia and Northen Russia? Is it about Russian border worries? I really hav'nt got a clue! Its very worrying though.

I agree. I HOPE that Russia/China arent run by the Illuminati :confused:If they ARE, and WW3 has started, then time is running out for people to wake up. If the "powers that be" are gonna start WW£ then they DO need to start it asap otherwise they give us time to spread the info, and they dont want that to happen.

[amethyst]

I HOPE that Russia/China arent run by the Illuminati

They are, unfortunately. All of the major countries are.

[Anders Lindman]

Yes and what happens if one of these "humanitarian" troops gets killed. Is this going to give Bush the excuse he needs to start a war with Russia? The stakes are too high surely? Im asking myself..has this whole thing been planned by Russia and America? Is this about oil, i heard that two massives oil sites are ready to go in Indonisia and Northen Russia? Is it about Russian border worries? I really hav'nt got a clue! Its very worrying though.

And as the latest CNN news says, the 'humanitarian aid' will involve aircraft and Naval forces. Sounds like a pretty hairy humanitarian aid to me.

[pheony]

I was just thinking about what David Icke said in one of his latest talks, regarding the traffic warden who had been given the 3 cards because there was a war or disaster coming.

[Anders Lindman]

I think for American soldiers to go into Georgia, the soldiers would either have to be daft, microchipped or Blackwater (mercenaries). Surely American soldiers in general would clearly see that something VERY strange is going on here and it's probably gonna end in their death and FOR WHAT! Rumours must be rife amongst the army SURELY ? Anyone who's heart is in the war must be crazy. It's not as if it's 1914 or 1939 where the truth was easily hidden from the people.


The soldiers are mostly young men that are almost like boys. And soldiers follow orders, orders related to their own little piece of the puzzle, and they probably don't have access to information outside the military while they are carrying out a mission.

It's easy to criticize the military on both sides when not being personally involved, but I think people, including the young soldiers, should not sacrifice themselves like pawns in a game of chess. The leaders have little problem sacrificing people, especially sacrificing soldiers, like they were just that: pawns in a game of chess.

[pheony]

And as the latest CNN news says, the 'humanitarian aid' will involve aircraft and Naval forces. Sounds like a pretty hairy humanitarian aid to me.

Yes, sounds like getting themselves ready for war to me.

[steevo]

The soldiers are mostly young men that are almost like boys. And soldiers follow orders, orders related to their own little piece of the puzzle, and they probably don't have access to information outside the military while they are carrying out a mission.

It's easy to criticize the military on both sides when not being personally involved, but I think people, including the young soldiers, should not sacrifice themselves like pawns in a game of chess. The leaders have little problem sacrificing people, especially sacrificing soldiers, like they were just that: pawns in a game of chess.

I agree Anders but surely their parents and family will begin to worry when they realise that this is World War 3.

[Anders Lindman]

I agree Anders but surely their parents and family will begin to worry when they realise that this is World War 3.

I don't believe it will come to WWIII, but people need to look at their government as less important than themselves.

I suspect we have been fooled by propaganda mongers for hundreds if not thousands of years. Who is more important, me or the nation? I am more important than the nation. This is the total opposite of what we have been told. Always, always have we been told that the nation is more important than the individual. It's time to crush that idea.

[steevo]

I don't believe it will come to WWIII, but people need to look at their government as less important than themselves.

I suspect we have been fooled by propaganda mongers for hundreds if not thousands of years. Who is more important, me or the nation? I am more important than the nation. This is the total opposite of what we have been told. Always, always have we been told that the nation is more important than the individual. It's time to crush that idea.

Yeah youre right there I think. I mean, it's OBVIOUS when you think about it but we are SO brainwashed that we can't see it.

[whitenight639]

And as the latest CNN news says, the 'humanitarian aid' will involve aircraft and Naval forces. Sounds like a pretty hairy humanitarian aid to me.


Yes its highly likely we will see russia and america go at it, this is it guys get ready!

humanitarian aid, in the form of naval ships, what so these ships have a stock pile of food and supplies just ready for georgia do they?

[element]

Yes its highly likely we will see russia and america go at it, this is it guys get ready!

humanitarian aid, in the form of naval ships, what so these ships have a stock pile of food and supplies just ready for georgia do they?

Bombs are their food..

[lizzy]

War in Georgia: The Israeli connection

For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice
Arie Egozi

The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.

The Defense Ministry held a special meeting Sunday to discuss the various arms deals held by Israelis in Georgia, but no change in policy has been announced as of yet.

Advice

Foreign Ministry warns Israelis against traveling to Georgia / Roee Nahmias

Ministry ups travel warning due to ongoing military conflict with Russia, asks Israelis already in Georgia to contact embassy in Tbilsi or ministry's situation room in Israel
Full story

"The subject is closely monitored," said sources in the Defense Ministry. "We are not operating in any way which may counter Israeli interests. We have turned down many requests involving arms sales to Georgia; and the ones which have been approves have been duly scrutinized. So far, we have placed no limitations on the sale of protective measures."


Israel began selling arms to Georgia about seven years ago following an initiative by Georgian citizens who immigrated to Israel and became businesspeople.

"They contacted defense industry officials and arms dealers and told them that Georgia had relatively large budgets and could be interested in purchasing Israeli weapons," says a source involved in arms exports.

The military cooperation between the countries developed swiftly. The fact that Georgia's defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation.
"His door was always open to the Israelis who came and offered his country arms systems made in Israel," the source said. "Compared to countries in Eastern Europe, the deals in this country were conducted fast, mainly due to the defense minister's personal involvement."


Among the Israelis who took advantage of the opportunity and began doing business in Georgia were former Minister Roni Milo and his brother Shlomo, former director-general of the Military Industries, Brigadier-General (Res.) Gal Hirsch and Major-General (Res.) Yisrael Ziv.

Roni Milo conducted business in Georgia for Elbit Systems and the Military Industries, and with his help Israel's defense industries managed to sell to Georgia remote-piloted vehicles (RPVs), automatic turrets for armored vehicles, antiaircraft systems, communication systems, shells and rockets.

According to Israeli sources, Gal Hirsch gave the Georgian army advice on the establishment of elite units such as Sayeret Matkal and on rearmament, and gave various courses in the fields of combat intelligence and fighting in built-up areas.

'Don't anger the Russians'

The Israelis operating in Georgia attempted to convince the Israeli Aerospace Industries to sell various systems to the Georgian air force, but were turned down. The reason for the refusal was "special" relations created between the Aerospace Industries and Russia in terms of improving fighter jets produced in the former USSR and the fear that selling weapons to Georgia would anger the Russians and prompt them to cancel the deals.



Israelis' activity in Georgia and the deals they struck there were all authorized by the Defense Ministry. Israel viewed Georgia as a friendly state to which there is no reason not to sell arms systems similar to those Israel exports to other countries in the world.



As the tension between Russia and Georgia grew, however, increasing voices were heard in Israel – particularly in the Foreign Ministry – calling on the Defense Ministry to be more selective in the approval of the deals with Georgia for fear that they would anger Russia.



"It was clear that too many unmistakable Israeli systems in the possesion of the Georgian army would be like a red cloth in the face of a raging bull as far as Russia is concerned," explained a source in the defense establishment.



For inctance, the Russians viewed the operation of the Elbit System's RPVs as a real provocation.



"It was clear that the Russians were angry," says a defense establishment source, "and that the interception of three of these RPVs in the past three months was an expression of this anger. Not everyone in Israel understood the sensitive nerve Israel touched when it supplied such an advanced arms system to a country whose relations with Russia are highly tense."



In May it was eventually decide to approve future deals with Georgia only for the sale of non-offensive weapon systems, such as intelligence, communications and computer systems, and not to approve deals for the sale of rifles, aircraft, sells, etc.

A senior source in the Military Industry said Saturday that despite some reporters, the activity of Georgia's military industry was extremely limited.

"We conducted a small job for them several years ago," he said. "The rest of the deals remained on paper."

Dov Pikulin, one of the owners of the Authentico company specializing in trips and journeys to the area, says however that "the Israeli is the main investor in the Georgian economy. Everyone is there, directly or indirectly."

Georgian minister: Israel should be proud
"The Israelis should be proud of themselves for the Israeli training and education received by the Georgian soldiers," Georgian Minister Temur Yakobashvili said Saturday.

Yakobashvili is a Jew and is fluent in Hebrew. "We are now in a fight against the great Russia," he said, "and our hope is to receive assistance from the White House, because Georgia cannot survive on its own.

"It's important that the entire world understands that what is happening in Georgia now will affect the entire world order. It's not just Georgia's business, but the entire world's business."

One of the Georgian parliament members did not settle Saturday for the call for American aid, urging Israel to help stop the Russian offensive as well: "We need help from the UN and from our friends, headed by the United States and Israel. Today Georgia is in danger – tomorrow all the democratic countries in the region and in the entire world will be in danger too."

[pheony]

Just seen a woman being interviewed on sky news, dont know who she is but something to do with government i think. She said that the situation in Georgia is 'very serious 'especially regarding America going there with troops and that people are starting to question Americas role in the start of the conflict. It would be a miracle but i hope Bush is shown up to be the warmonger that he is and that Britain does'nt have the stomach for this contrived conflict as the stakes are too high this time.