Sex Magic!

[zero1]

Any practitioners here? Tell us about it, if so. Who is your partner? What's a sex magic ritual consist of? Who taught you it?

Do you "do it" Wicca-style or Crowley-style in terms of the "spiritual" elements?

Do you, as Ordo Templi Orientis boldly proclaimed in the early 1900's, have "The Key" to all Masonic and Hermetic secrets through your knowlege of Sex Magic?

To-cum-or-not-to-cum, that is the question, eh? So, do you? Ejeculate, orgasm etc? During sex magic, I mean.

Wonderful topic. I hereby congratulate myself for bringing it up...

So?

[zero1]

If no-one practices sex magic, could someone please post saying that they don't?

That'd be great. :)

(I realize that there are probably very few people on this forum who get laid regularly - not least me, but I do find it an interesting topic).

[clozaril]

i hear you can practice sex magic on your own ;)

[chattanova]

I need a subscribtion on this thread:D should be interesting...

[ninja17]

I dont know much about it..

But its probably just a justification for the satisfaction of the body that everybody has, like the feelings and desires that come from it..so nothing you could be real proud of or you have to support in any way..

[izzy]

(I realize that there are probably very few people on this forum who get laid regularly - not least me, but I do find it an interesting topic).

:D:D:rolleyes:

[zero1]

i hear you can practice sex magic on your own ;)

Indeed you can, but its dangerous and you could wind up...wonky.

Pillow and Matress Humping does not qualify as "sex magic" either, let us be clear...

Tantra can be practiced in part on one's own, but other aspects of it require a partner.

Just running thru the facts...

I propose that real Sex Magic is about the transformation of bodies and their code (DNA) thru ritual intercourse and the psychic energies that those rituals involve. I declare that the ultimate aim is immortality. Who agrees with me?

[ninja17]

I declare that the ultimate aim is immortality. Who agrees with me?

If you mean immortality of the body then i will disagree. The Taoists tried it and it doesnt work. Though i think if you would read their methods you would gain much more from it than this O.T.O-Stuff. But take this comment with a grain of salt because i dont know what these boys are really up to..

And why do you want an immortal body anyway?

[seanx]

It is an interesting topic.

It's funny I was reading about it last week ...and realized that as I
was reading, I was automatically assuming that it was inherently
bad, wrong, evil.

So the point is - we're always conditioned to a greater or lesser effect
by the christian upbringing that we were subject to.

The book then described a simple sexual ritual that the Celts used to
do in a field to improve fertility.

A group of six men would have sex with a group of six woman -
and for the ritual to be effective - they must all reach orgasmic
climax together - and with this burst of living, virile vigorous energy
- they must imagine this extraordinary energy that gives life to all
life seeping into the earth, renewing and nourishing it - and then
visualize an abundant crop growing form it.

So it seems sex magic rituals are not in themselves bad or evil -
they can be positive and life-enchancing.

The key is the intent behind it.

[phildee3]

Any practitioners here?



Yep.
In the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Happy Maria Magdalena's day (July 22nd)!

[phildee3]

1952
...the goal being ascension, in our experience, rather than immortality.

[krakhead]

The key is the intent behind it.

Abso-fucking-lutely!!

Major kudos to you for pointing out what I consider to be a key element of LOT'S of topics discussed on this forum! :)

[zero1]

Yep. In the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Happy Maria Magdalena's day (July 22nd)!

:D Good answer.

[clozaril]

ok seriously, i met a 60yr old guy from texas he was really into the essene particularly the translations by Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, anyway.

he said that the women on earth at the moment distrust men and are really hurt, this was 1999 btw. and that we as men when having sex with women have to send, well when they are reaching orgasm we visualise sending the energy from the woman back to the centre of the earth and help to heal them instead of taking the energy from them.

he said since he started doing it he would just happen to meet women who required this healing ! no shit

when i got home i tried it a couple of times i felt good whilst doing it and i suppose it was healing. i didn't have the guts to tell the lady what i was visualizing.

is that sex magic?

[ninja17]

So the point is - we're always conditioned to a greater or lesser effect
by the christian upbringing that we were subject to.

So that justifies doing it even if your intent is "good"?

[orbandsceptre27]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFh0-hzMtXs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH6Xii0KEAM&feature=related

[orbandsceptre27]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/0974014451/sr=8-1/qid=1216676997/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=266239&s=books&qid=1216676997&sr=8-1

[zero1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFh0-hzMtXs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH6Xii0KEAM&feature=related

Those are excellent, and very pertinent to the occult usage of sexual energy for cabalistic ritual purposes, on the macro and micro levels (species and individuals programmed). This is approaching the "magic" of Sex Magic that I was trying in a round-about way to get to.

Thanks. :)

[zero1]

ok seriously, i met a 60yr old guy from texas he was really into the essene particularly the translations by Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, anyway.

he said that the women on earth at the moment distrust men and are really hurt, this was 1999 btw. and that we as men when having sex with women have to send, well when they are reaching orgasm we visualise sending the energy from the woman back to the centre of the earth and help to heal them instead of taking the energy from them.

he said since he started doing it he would just happen to meet women who required this healing ! no shit

when i got home i tried it a couple of times i felt good whilst doing it and i suppose it was healing. i didn't have the guts to tell the lady what i was visualizing.

is that sex magic?

Of a programmed sort, yes. But the real magic of sex is in its transformative power, and the keys to occult knowlege that allows those "in-the-know" to utilise this energy for many hidden purposes; life extension, psychological programming, DNA alteration etc.

But I'll bet you had a great time with the Essene crew. Did you meet any women who required your sexual healing techniques? :D

[clozaril]

Of a programmed sort, yes. But the real magic of sex is in its transformative power, and the keys to occult knowlege that allows those "in-the-know" to utilise this energy for many hidden purposes; life extension, psychological programming, DNA alteration etc.

But I'll bet you had a great time with the Essene crew. Did you meet any women who required your sexual healing techniques? :D


no only did it with the one women i did it a couple of times with her but i stopped visualizing and started looking, particularly round the heart chakra area ;) :D

the guy said he was getting so much action!!

btw i was having a few lol moments when typing that story

[soulja]

sex in itself is magic, at least when happening with love.

there is nothing more uplifting and energizing than sex with the woman you love.

[danoli3]

sex in itself is magic, at least when happening with love.

there is nothing more uplifting and energizing than sex with the woman you love.

I very much agree. Nothing is greater ;D

[blondina1]

sex in itself is magic, at least when happening with love.

there is nothing more uplifting and energizing than sex with the woman you love.

Agree except would have to add that for me it would be - man you love :D

[seanx]

Nija wrote:


Quote:
So the point is - we're always conditioned to a greater or lesser effect
by the christian upbringing that we were subject to.

So that justifies doing it even if your intent is "good"?

So you seem to believe that 'doing it' is wrong.

Is this your belief or just the result of what you have been told for
centuries?

Why do we assume using sexual energies for positive purposes is
bad?

And if the ancient celts were mature enough for six couples to make
love in syn to energize positive thoughtforms - who is to say that
maybe they were right - and that we are wrong in condeming them.

Instead today, this practice ( and knowledge) has been perverted and
controlled by the Elite to further and manifest their thoughforms
into global consciousness.

[element]

I very much agree. Nothing is greater ;D

How would you know? Expand!

[amethyst]

sex in itself is magic, at least when happening with love.

there is nothing more uplifting and energizing than sex with the woman you love.

I was going to say the same thing. Sex can be "magical" or the converse.....dull, if you or your partner are not into the "moment".

[chris]

You Heathens make me sick. Listen to you with your vile excrement, I think you all should be ashamed for your unabashed promiscuity.

I hope you know, I'm down with tha moderators and I've jotted down all your names and sent them forthwit to thine moderators for subsequent warnings and possible bannings.

This is not the time or place, perhaps you would like to go to a swingers club or go dogging somewhere else but not on the sacred Astrology / Mysticism / Tarot / Numerology / The Occult / Alchemy forum:mad:

[amethyst]

You Heathens make me sick. Listen to you with your vile excrement, I think you all should be ashamed for your unabashed promiscuity.

I hope you know, I'm down with tha moderators and I've jotted down all your names and sent them forthwit to thine moderators for subsequent warnings and possible bannings.

This is not the time or place, perhaps you would like to go to a swingers club or go dogging somewhere else but not on the sacred Astrology / Mysticism / Tarot / Numerology / The Occult / Alchemy forum:mad:

Are you serious?

And who is your post directed to specifically that you are calling a "heathen'?

[element]

Are you serious?

And who is your post directed to specifically that you are calling a "heathen'?

I think he's joking :D

[thetonic]

Are you serious?

And who is your post directed to specifically that you are calling a "heathen'?

lol hes joking. Chris is the biggest heathen of them all

[amethyst]

I think he's joking :D

I sorta thought he was, but there were no "smilies" at the end of his posts. :D

[amethyst]

Hmmm...about sex...

The thing about it is, it (sex) has the potential to be a wonderful shared experience with someone you share your life with and you can fully explore all the delightful possibilites with that shared experience the BEST, in a monogamous relationship, as opposed to a multiplicity of partners.

It's power and sacredness gets diminished when it is spread around and not treated as such.

[thirdwave]

Nija wrote:




So you seem to believe that 'doing it' is wrong.

Is this your belief or just the result of what you have been told for
centuries?

Why do we assume using sexual energies for positive purposes is
bad?

And if the ancient celts were mature enough for six couples to make
love in syn to energize positive thoughtforms - who is to say that
maybe they were right - and that we are wrong in condeming them.

Instead today, this practice ( and knowledge) has been perverted and
controlled by the Elite to further and manifest their thoughforms
into global consciousness.

you only have to take a look at the world... If one is to walk naked in the street they are arrested... and most would be very offended and upset to see it!

I bloody think the naked person should be the offended one!

this is the state its in... and no wonder such things as sex magick are deemed evil or corrupted...

Im not saying its something I do on the weekends but I have learnt to except this stuff and to not view it so negatively and with such fear...

most of us are so conditioned with guilt and fear.... truly oppressed...

[chris]

lol hes joking. Chris is the biggest heathen of them all

Tonic, you young rascal how dare you talk to me like that!

As for the naysayers, I'll have you know that I won the Westbro Baptist Church award for Liberal Tolerance. So ha, you know not me...I even gave sex education for the newlyweds there.

Sex should never be done unless in the very dark with your eyes closed and possibly, at a distance.

You vile creatures with your earthly pleasures make me fucking sick!:mad::mad::mad:

I wonder what David Icke would say about this:eek: I'm afriad I might have to report you to him or even the Clergy response team.

[phildee3]

The thing about it is, it (sex) has the potential to be a wonderful shared experience with someone you share your life with and you can fully explore all the delightful possibilites with that shared experience the BEST, in a monogamous relationship, as opposed to a multiplicity of partners.

It's power and sacredness gets diminished when it is spread around and not treated as such.



I happen to agree with this.
After a fairly promiscuous life, trying it every which way, I came to this very conclusion.
My partner and I have been practicing "sex-magicians" within the sacrament of Holy Matrimony for almost four years and are constantly having this reinforced; - monogamy is the context within which the highest state of divine union (through sex) is attained.

We are not the kind of people who conform to social norms; - we are total rebels!
We are not doing this because of social pressure or programming.
The spiritual dynamics of the process, attunement, learning how to bring the kundalini into harmonic resonance with the others', etc. etc. make this path the highest form of sex-magic known - I'm sure.

[seanx]

My partner and I have been practicing "sex-magicians" within the sacrament of Holy Matrimony for almost four years and are constantly having this reinforced; - monogamy is the context within which the highest state of divine union (through sex) is attained.

We are not the kind of people who conform to social norms; - we are total rebels!
We are not doing this because of social pressure or programming.
The spiritual dynamics of the process, attunement, learning how to bring the kundalini into harmonic resonance with the others', etc. etc. make this path the highest form of sex-magic known - I'm sure.

That's true - but imagine you had six such couples who in close
resonance and understanding with each other were able to
combine their sexual energies and at the moment of orgasmic
climax fuse their energies to promote and infuse a positive thoughform
into global consciousness.

Why should these techniques only be left to the Elite to be pervertly
used to create negatively-charged thoughtforms that will dominate
the collective unconscious to be picked up unconciously and
acted upon by the mass sleeping mind?

[ninja17]

So you seem to believe that 'doing it' is wrong.

No, I dont believe having an orgy with a "good" intent is wrong. Its just nature in a very primitive way if you ask me...Nothing more,nothing less.
But how do you know its "good"?...because the ethic values of "christianity" or "humanity" say its immoral/primitive/lustfull?

Is this your belief or just the result of what you have been told for
centuries?

Man, I am only 20 yo. You can see my humble opinion in my first comment.

Why do we assume using sexual energies for positive purposes is
bad?

..I dont, How do you assume its "good"?

And if the ancient celts were mature enough for six couples to make
love in syn to energize positive thoughtforms - who is to say that
maybe they were right - and that we are wrong in condeming them.

Instead today, this practice ( and knowledge) has been perverted and
controlled by the Elite to further and manifest their thoughforms
into global consciousness.

What do you mean with thoughtforms?

[marpat]

Any practitioners here? Tell us about it, if so. Who is your partner? What's a sex magic ritual consist of? Who taught you it?

Do you "do it" Wicca-style or Crowley-style in terms of the "spiritual" elements?

Do you, as Ordo Templi Orientis boldly proclaimed in the early 1900's, have "The Key" to all Masonic and Hermetic secrets through your knowlege of Sex Magic?

To-cum-or-not-to-cum, that is the question, eh? So, do you? Ejeculate, orgasm etc? During sex magic, I mean.

Wonderful topic. I hereby congratulate myself for bringing it up...

So?

My own experience is limited but it does work. If you wish to pursue this subject then some good books are:

Secrets of the German Sex magicians
Ecstacy through Tantra
Secrets of the western sex magician

[marpat]

It is an interesting topic.

It's funny I was reading about it last week ...and realized that as I
was reading, I was automatically assuming that it was inherently
bad, wrong, evil.

So the point is - we're always conditioned to a greater or lesser effect
by the christian upbringing that we were subject to.

The book then described a simple sexual ritual that the Celts used to
do in a field to improve fertility.

A group of six men would have sex with a group of six woman -
and for the ritual to be effective - they must all reach orgasmic
climax together - and with this burst of living, virile vigorous energy
- they must imagine this extraordinary energy that gives life to all
life seeping into the earth, renewing and nourishing it - and then
visualize an abundant crop growing form it.

So it seems sex magic rituals are not in themselves bad or evil -
they can be positive and life-enchancing.

The key is the intent behind it.

Good call. The main problem for a lot of people is the stigma of christianity with its sexual suppression.

We need to see sex as something pure in itself, an expression of creative force, only perverted or distorted by the intent of the person.

If people feel repulsed by it without even looking into it then it is really a problem of their own conditioning, to see evil where there is none.

[marpat]

That's true - but imagine you had six such couples who in close
resonance and understanding with each other were able to
combine their sexual energies and at the moment of orgasmic
climax fuse their energies to promote and infuse a positive thoughform
into global consciousness.

Why should these techniques only be left to the Elite to be pervertly
used to create negatively-charged thoughtforms that will dominate
the collective unconscious to be picked up unconciously and
acted upon by the mass sleeping mind?

Again, good call seanx. If they can use it then so can we, except our intent will be positive and not repressive.

To fight spiritual evil you need weapons but not carnal ones.

[marpat]

Hmmm...about sex...

The thing about it is, it (sex) has the potential to be a wonderful shared experience with someone you share your life with and you can fully explore all the delightful possibilites with that shared experience the BEST, in a monogamous relationship, as opposed to a multiplicity of partners.

It's power and sacredness gets diminished when it is spread around and not treated as such.

That is a very limited viewpoint and not entirely valid. It depends on many factors. My own feeling is that the roots of monogamy are based entirely on control of people because you are obliged to cut yourself off from expressing love as nature expresses it. If you feel love outside of that marriage you are forced to repress those feelings. It is to do with emotional security and ownership IMO.

You are correct that sex should be treated as a sacred act but sex magic is just such a sacred act of sex, seeing the divine in both people as they unite in positive intent.

[eternal_spirit]

Crowley positively encouraged ejaculatory orgasm in his sex magic, he always made a point of consuming what he called the "elixir" afterwards. He understood this elixir to be the mixture of the sexual fluids of both partners or, in the masturbatory act, as just the semen. He entered very carefully in his the magical diaries a description of the elixir's consistency and taste, and he even recorded the prophecies which he deduced from these data.

And Crowley's practices go on to be even more disgusting.

Coprophagia, which means consumption of excrement, here also includes consumption of other secretions such as urine and sweat. It was ritually practiced from early times on the sympathetic-magic principle that the secretions of any entity contain part of its magis. Crowley, for example, occasionally offered his disciples in Cefalu the excretement of a goat. This frequently met with no small disapproval!

Crowley performed a similar ritual in his Sicilian Abbey of Thelema, during which his Scarlet Woman was to be mounted by a goat which would be beheaded during the climax.

There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O.. The O.T.O. was founded earlier this century by high grade Austrian Freemason Karl Kellner and German Freemason Theodor Reuss. The O.T.O. became a major force in the occult world when Aleister Crowley became its leader.

Although he positively encouraged ejaculatory orgasm in his sex magic, he always made a point of consuming what he called the "elixir" afterwards. He understood this elixir to be the mixture of the sexual fluids of both partners or, in the masturbatory act, as just the semen. He entered very carefully in his the magical diaries a description of the elixir's consistency and taste, and he even recorded the prophecies which he deduced from these data.

And Crowley's practices go on to be even more disgusting.

Coprophagia, which means consumption of excrement, here also includes consumption of other secretions such as urine and sweat. It was ritually practiced from early times on the sympathetic-magic principle that the secretions of any entity contain part of its magis. Crowley, for example, occasionally offered his disciples in Cefalu the excretement of a goat. This frequently met with no small disapproval!

Crowley performed a similar ritual in his Sicilian Abbey of Thelema, during which his Scarlet Woman was to be mounted by a goat which would be beheaded during the climax.

There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O.. The O.T.O. was founded earlier this century by high grade Austrian Freemason Karl Kellner and German Freemason Theodor Reuss. The O.T.O. became a major force in the occult world when Aleister Crowley became its leader.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=426708&postcount=385

Crowley's VIII. unveiled the "pupil" that masturbating on a sigil
of a demon or meditating upon the image of a phallus would bring
power or communication with a (or one's own) divine being/Super
Ego. The IX. labelled heterosexual intercourse where the sexual
secrets were sucked out of the vagina and when not consumed (when
considered holy) put on a sigil to attract this or that demon to
fullfill the pertinent wish/order. In his "Emblems and Mode of
Use" Crowley describes the method of how to smear sperm on a
talisman/sigil in order to attract for example money.

[marpat]

Crowley positively encouraged ejaculatory orgasm in his sex magic, he always made a point of consuming what he called the "elixir" afterwards. He understood this elixir to be the mixture of the sexual fluids of both partners or, in the masturbatory act, as just the semen. He entered very carefully in his the magical diaries a description of the elixir's consistency and taste, and he even recorded the prophecies which he deduced from these data.

And Crowley's practices go on to be even more disgusting.

Coprophagia, which means consumption of excrement, here also includes consumption of other secretions such as urine and sweat. It was ritually practiced from early times on the sympathetic-magic principle that the secretions of any entity contain part of its magis. Crowley, for example, occasionally offered his disciples in Cefalu the excretement of a goat. This frequently met with no small disapproval!

Crowley performed a similar ritual in his Sicilian Abbey of Thelema, during which his Scarlet Woman was to be mounted by a goat which would be beheaded during the climax.

There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O.. The O.T.O. was founded earlier this century by high grade Austrian Freemason Karl Kellner and German Freemason Theodor Reuss. The O.T.O. became a major force in the occult world when Aleister Crowley became its leader.

Although he positively encouraged ejaculatory orgasm in his sex magic, he always made a point of consuming what he called the "elixir" afterwards. He understood this elixir to be the mixture of the sexual fluids of both partners or, in the masturbatory act, as just the semen. He entered very carefully in his the magical diaries a description of the elixir's consistency and taste, and he even recorded the prophecies which he deduced from these data.

And Crowley's practices go on to be even more disgusting.

Coprophagia, which means consumption of excrement, here also includes consumption of other secretions such as urine and sweat. It was ritually practiced from early times on the sympathetic-magic principle that the secretions of any entity contain part of its magis. Crowley, for example, occasionally offered his disciples in Cefalu the excretement of a goat. This frequently met with no small disapproval!

Crowley performed a similar ritual in his Sicilian Abbey of Thelema, during which his Scarlet Woman was to be mounted by a goat which would be beheaded during the climax.

There exists today a secret society that dedicates itself to carrying on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. This group is called the O.T.O.. The O.T.O. was founded earlier this century by high grade Austrian Freemason Karl Kellner and German Freemason Theodor Reuss. The O.T.O. became a major force in the occult world when Aleister Crowley became its leader.

Spam again!!!!!!!!

I recall reading one of Crowleys books in which he states that the Dalai Lama gets his disciples to eat his excrement. It is probably to train them to overcome repulsion.

Crowley did not always make a point of consuming the elixir. If this were so then how could he use his semen to annoint talismans? that is the trouble when you spam information without reading it, you just dont see the flawss in what you spam.

Why have you put a dampner on this thread? we were discussing how sex magic can be used in a positive way to over come any negative effects of the NWO and then you just barge in trying to spam everything out with you crap.

I think you will find that the goat ritual never happened because it did not like human women so Crowley had to fill in for it. Perhaps if you read the full facts then you would know this.

Do you think that you could refarim from making this a Crowley thread just because you wish to try and sabotage the discussion. This subject is about sex magic generally not just related to crowley so can you try and use a bit more lateral vision. You are revealing your programming.

Perhaps you should mention the wide variaty of different OTO groups and how their ideas and practices differ. We wouldnt want you to delude people into thinking it is one organisation.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=422921#post422921)
.............

Allready explained from the OTO site written by OTO people.

From Cakes of light recipe link jeez

*Regarding Ingredient X, here is the original Liber Al vel Legis Reference:
III,24: The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the
worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.
III,25: This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall
become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me.
III,26: These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you.
III,27: Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof.
III,28: Also ye shall be strong in war.
III,29: Moreover, be they long kept, it is better; for they swell with my force. All before me.
http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/rituals.htm

There a good search facility at the bottom of the page^

[eternal_spirit]

quote: marpat

Spam again!!!!!!!!
.............................
Your constant accusation of spam are dumb.

What's the thread title? :rolleyes:I'm on topic.

BTW marpat claims to be a member of OTO, so maybe you can ask him about the topic?

[marpat]

quote: marpat

Spam again!!!!!!!!
.............................
Your constant accusation of spam are dumb.

What's the thread title? :rolleyes:I'm on topic.

BTW marpat claims to be a member of OTO, so maybe you can ask him about the topic?


I am really bored with you. All you do is spam and never debate.

Well never mind, I will set you to ignore as I cant see the point of wasting my time scrolling through massive pages of highly biased and inaccurate spam. If people wish to believe what you say then let them, it matters not to me. Your stupid and idiotic spams have been defeated time after time in other threads and I see no point in continuing the same arguements over the same spammed messages again. These things you post are not even your own ideas but the work of people who are heavily biased for one reason or another.

You can waste other peoples time but you will not be wasting mine.

[krakhead]

Calling all mods! May as well lock this thread now.

It'll just carry on as another Marpat vs ES thread AGAIN otherwise!!

ES you really need to back off a bit. The two of you are never going to agree. Stop taking over threads with pages of poorly researched cut 'n' paste crap. It's beginning to grate.

[eternal_spirit]

Calling all mods! May as well lock this thread now.

It'll just carry on as another Marpat vs ES thread AGAIN otherwise!!

ES you really need to back off a bit. The two of you are never going to agree. Stop taking over threads with pages of poorly researched cut 'n' paste crap. It's beginning to grate.

Right quotes from OTO people and actual OTO rituals isn't poor research. It's Marpat who needs to back off.

[thirdwave]

It's power and sacredness gets diminished when it is spread around and not treated as such.

the thing is.. you are right... but you are also coming from one perspective...

if you are looking for somone intimate and sacred for two people... then of course sharing it will ruin it..

but if you are looking for something different and for a collective group to create another energy, then it might be great to share it.... just because a group has sex it does not mean its not special.... it comes down to if all those people are happy and in harmony ..

the thing is, why does there have to be one set standard?... why not lots of different ones to choose from?

I personally do not get drawn to the idea of an orgy... but would not say I will never do it... if i ever get the chance and the feeling grabs me at the time then I would not feel I would be doing anything wrong at all.

[thirdwave]

Calling all mods! May as well lock this thread now.

It'll just carry on as another Marpat vs ES thread AGAIN otherwise!!

ES you really need to back off a bit. The two of you are never going to agree. Stop taking over threads with pages of poorly researched cut 'n' paste crap. It's beginning to grate.

what annoys me is its not good enough for him to have created about 20 threads on the subject but he insists on gate crashing other peoples as well...

he is succeeding in that these subjects cant be discussed properly without his constant spamming and hi jacking butting in... he allways has to drag the Crowley debate into it... its like, for fuck sake the guy died 60 years ago... get over it!

I sense it might be ignore button time.

[krakhead]

Right quotes from OTO people and actual OTO rituals isn't poor research. It's Marpat who needs to back off.

But, through omission, you admit to taking over threads? ;)

[krakhead]

what annoys me is its not good enough for him to have created about 20 threads on the subject but he insists on gate crashing other peoples as well...

he is succeeding in that these subjects cant be discussed properly without his constant spamming and hi jacking butting in... he allways has to drag the Crowley debate into it... its like, for fuck sake the guy died 60 years ago... get over it!

I sense it might be ignore button time.

And I have been told to stay out of some of those threads because I wasn't part of the circle jerk! ;)

But if you ignore anyone, surely you'd be thinking, "just what was it they just posted?!" LOL! Just don't reply.

And I shouldn't be answering you - I was trying to get people to believe I was you! :p

[eternal_spirit]

And I have been told to stay out of some of those threads because I wasn't part of the circle jerk! ;)

But if you ignore anyone, surely you'd be thinking, "just what was it they just posted?!" LOL! Just don't reply.



And I shouldn't be answering you - I was trying to get people to believe I was you! :p

No chance of you being mistaken for TW your typings too good.

Thing with Marpat he crys bad sources about every posts with links. He never provides any links to back up his posts so I know he's the one taking the piss.
And TW is uber troll and Gatecrasher talk about hypocrite.

[thirdwave]

And I have been told to stay out of some of those threads because I wasn't part of the circle jerk! ;)

But if you ignore anyone, surely you'd be thinking, "just what was it they just posted?!" LOL! Just don't reply.

And I shouldn't be answering you - I was trying to get people to believe I was you! :p

ahhh im sure in time they will!

I have noticed with ES, he liked to provoke a reaction by saying things he knows is not true in an attempt to make people defensive... I no longer fall for it.

[eternal_spirit]

ahhh im sure in time they will!

I have noticed with ES, he liked to provoke a reaction by saying things he knows is not true in an attempt to make people defensive... I no longer fall for it.

And again more lies from the liar tell us the one about Crowley wasn't a Mason or Satanist again jeez :rolleyes: Or an even better lie you try spread around the place saying I'm a fundy Christian (and I'm not even religious)

Maybe we should ignore each other.

[krakhead]

No chance of you being mistaken for TW your typings too good.

Lol! Ooh bitch! ;)

Thing with Marpat he crys bad sources about every posts with links. He never provides any links to back up his posts so I know he's the one taking the piss.

But to be honest, IMO, the teachings/writings of Crowley are valuable resources for self development. Posting link after link of people having a go at the MAN doesn't in any way detract from what I have gained, or what anyone else could gain, from his WORK.

You don't like/trust Crowley, fair enough. I think he could be an absolute arsehole at times, purposefully obfuscating his message for no other reason, at times, than to piss people off. (or so it seems to me)

But that shouldn't, again IMO, detract from what every individual can gain from applying the techniques he developed (and there can be NO doubt that some of the major developments within magick in the last 200 years came from Crowley, if not purely through him creating individual techniques then definitely from his bringing together and making public a large amount of previously guarded information)

But your continued efforts to purely discredit him as a man AND a magician (psychonaut?) appear misguided and misleading.

I have no real argument with you, but this argument has been going on long enough on too many threads.

Agree to disagree and let's move on shall we?

And TW is uber troll and Gatecrasher talk about hypocrite.

Pardon? Sorry, all I heard was "blah, blah, blah" :D

[thirdwave]

*rumbling noise*
.................................................. ....


O oh!!

Shit!!!!!!

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its the ES spam storm!!!!!


run for your lives!!!!!!!! ... take cover......

:eek:

[amethyst]

That is a very limited viewpoint and not entirely valid. It depends on many factors. My own feeling is that the roots of monogamy are based entirely on control of people because you are obliged to cut yourself off from expressing love as nature expresses it. If you feel love outside of that marriage you are forced to repress those feelings. It is to do with emotional security and ownership IMO.

You are correct that sex should be treated as a sacred act but sex magic is just such a sacred act of sex, seeing the divine in both people as they unite in positive intent.

Yeah, but outside of a monogamus relationship, you increase the odds of aquiring a sexually tranmitted disease...that's just the facts, whether one wants to admit it or not.

I would disagree with you that the roots of monogamy are based on control and repression...only...In some cases probably, but not in all cases.

In actuality, emotional security stemming from monogamy makes for better sex in a lot of instances. But that's about relationships that are built on trust.....and trust takes time to build.

Not every relationship is a trustworthy one.

[zero1]

Off topic! OFF TOPIC!!


:D


Ahem...

[thirdwave]

Yeah, but outside of a monogamus relationship, you increase the odds of aquiring a sexually tranmitted disease...that's just the facts, whether one wants to admit it or not.



how so?

[amethyst]

how so?

How so? How does someone get a sexually tranmitted disease TW?

That's pretty obvious isn't it?

It's usually thru a multiplicity of sexual partners....let's just say, you increase the odds.

[seanx]

Nija wrote:

No, I dont believe having an orgy

You made some good points - but why use the word 'orgy'?

An 'orgy' I think is the exact opposte of what we are talking about
here.

An 'orgy' is a free for all - a place for people who have no discipline,
no values - no vision. They just want to fuck whatever the
consequences.

But from what I understand from this ancient celtic ritual - it requires
the exact opposite.

It requires six couples who can not only have sex together - but
it requires these couples to know each other so intimately that they
can control and monitor their energies so that, along with all the
other couples they can all climax together and release phenomena energy.


This is a million miles away from the 'orgies' that the Elite present to
us in their Hollywood movies.

This is a sacred ritual- not a mindless orgy.

The Celts or Druids were destroyed here in Ireland by so-called
'Christianity'.

And here's another interesting fact about Druid Law that operated
in Ireland before St Patrick came here to 'convert' us : an irish woman
was entited to obtain a divorce if her husband was unable to bring her
to orgasm!

Absoluely true.

[blondina1]

the thing is.. you are right... but you are also coming from one perspective...

if you are looking for somone intimate and sacred for two people... then of course sharing it will ruin it..

but if you are looking for something different and for a collective group to create another energy, then it might be great to share it.... just because a group has sex it does not mean its not special.... it comes down to if all those people are happy and in harmony ..

the thing is, why does there have to be one set standard?... why not lots of different ones to choose from?

I would like to add that everyone has their own boundaries and if someone believes that sharing their intimate moments with close friends/strangers is immoral or wrong then they are entitled to that opinion. Everyone has their own set of standards, that is what makes us individual. It isn't one perspective it is an indivudual persons perspective on a subject which differs so from person to person.

[quetzalcoatl]

Believe it or not I've had sex a few times.. There was definitely lots of magic involved! :p

[ninja17]

seanx,

I dont doubt for a second that there is a phenomenal amount of released energy but i doubt that its sacred. What are you achieving? What is supposed to happen with this energy? What are these "thoughtforms"? Will they change anything?...In the end, is this ritual really "good"?..I dont know, but i doubt it.

What i could imagine is that invisible beings might feed up of that energy.
But, Who are they?

And here's another interesting fact about Druid Law that operated
in Ireland before St Patrick came here to 'convert' us : an irish woman
was entited to obtain a divorce if her husband was unable to bring her
to orgasm!

I dont want to convert you but in my opinion sex should not have such a high priority even if its very healthy to a certain degree and makes the energy in your body flow.(I am not a christian)

After Christianity came in the irish women were probably very disappointed.:D

[thirdwave]

How so? How does someone get a sexually tranmitted disease TW?

That's pretty obvious isn't it?

It's usually thru a multiplicity of sexual partners....let's just say, you increase the odds.


not if you know the people you are sleeping with or at least have a reason to trust them...

if you slept with any random person ...even if it was an intimate one on one, you still run the risk of getting disease...

but more importantly this is just an accuse to look down on the act, as it has nothing to do with the act its self...

As for Aids, that is a very suspect creation in its self.

if we were to dig deeper we can say that diseases like Cancer are created from inner tension... and sexual oppression causes inner tension and there for heightens the risk of disease.

but none of this really is a decent argument to judge the morals of the act... only the pit falls regarding the diseases that are around us... for example, if it was discovered that being gay creates a new illness, its not going to make gay people think "oh i better pack it in" ..it will just fuck with there heads big time.

[thirdwave]

I would like to add that everyone has their own boundaries and if someone believes that sharing their intimate moments with close friends/strangers is immoral or wrong then they are entitled to that opinion. Everyone has their own set of standards, that is what makes us individual. It isn't one perspective it is an indivudual persons perspective on a subject which differs so from person to person.

this is very true.... but If I was to say that somone was wrong for only sleeping with one partner I would be contradicting my views....

I believe all should be free to express them selves as they wish... this means All... not just a selected few....

It would be wrong for anyone to judge or to set standards for all..

of course people can advise others, point out how they feel they are missing out on something... or over doing something...

but to judge them as morally wrong or indecent is a sign of mind control IMO.

[blondina1]

That is up to each individual. One can accept but not respect. Or respect but not accept.

On a side note isn't the very fact that even if i walk into a shop magazines of naked women or half naked men are imposed on me without my consent. Everyday people are bombarded with things that is imposed on them that they not neccesarily respect or accept. But by having this pushed upon us our boundaries are shiftet unwillingly. Does one really know what ones own boundary is? What one is willing to accept or respect without society imposing it on one? I think that having these things imposed on us without our consent, this including advice, is a form of mind control.

[jozen bo]

Yeah...I gotta subscribe too...as both Sex and Magic are two of my favorite things!!!:p:p:D

[thirdwave]

Well yeah you could say that...

but I think this is more a case of what society does... not the acts in the mags them selves...

our society has been made to build mind control around us....

that being said, it would be up to the shop keeper what he sells and has on his shelf... and up to the shopper to decide to go in and have a look...

but I see your point.. and there are attempts to control the way we think all over the place..

although I get the feeling that today we have got to an age where allot of the tools that where used to manipulate man kind have had to be dropped.... and now attempts to make lots of money out of the desires created by the manipulation have very much come into effect... its on going... they oppress then when they cant oppress any more they exploit and corrupt.... and are useing always ahead of the game..

for example, in the past gay people have been terribly oppressed, today because people have broke through that bubble and people are now more or less free to be what they want.... lots of marketing goes into gay bands or so on.... in some cases its cool to be gay today.. when why should it matter either way....

you could almost imagine in years kids being bullied for not being gay! lol

[marpat]

Calling all mods! May as well lock this thread now.

It'll just carry on as another Marpat vs ES thread AGAIN otherwise!!

ES you really need to back off a bit. The two of you are never going to agree. Stop taking over threads with pages of poorly researched cut 'n' paste crap. It's beginning to grate.


Well he is on my ignore list anyway so should not be a problem

[amethyst]

not if you know the people you are sleeping with or at least have a reason to trust them...

if you slept with any random person ...even if it was an intimate one on one, you still run the risk of getting disease...

but more importantly this is just an accuse to look down on the act, as it has nothing to do with the act its self...

As for Aids, that is a very suspect creation in its self.

if we were to dig deeper we can say that diseases like Cancer are created from inner tension... and sexual oppression causes inner tension and there for heightens the risk of disease.

but none of this really is a decent argument to judge the morals of the act... only the pit falls regarding the diseases that are around us... for example, if it was discovered that being gay creates a new illness, its not going to make gay people think "oh i better pack it in" ..it will just fuck with there heads big time.

Just saying that you increase the odds of contacting a STD the more partners ya have....but every individual has the choice to make whatever decision they want to make in regards to sex etc..... Hopefully, educated decisions.

But then, ya gotta live with the consequences of those choices.

Haven't most of us made some good and not so good choices along the way?

[eternal_spirit]

quote : Krakhead

But to be honest, IMO, the teachings/writings of Crowley are valuable resources for self development. Posting link after link of people having a go at the MAN doesn't in any way detract from what I have gained, or what anyone else could gain, from his WORK.

You don't like/trust Crowley, fair enough. I think he could be an absolute arsehole at times, purposefully obfuscating his message for no other reason, at times, than to piss people off. (or so it seems to me)

But that shouldn't, again IMO, detract from what every individual can gain from applying the techniques he developed (and there can be NO doubt that some of the major developments within magick in the last 200 years came from Crowley, if not purely through him creating individual techniques then definitely from his bringing together and making public a large amount of previously guarded information)

But your continued efforts to purely discredit him as a man AND a magician (psychonaut?) appear misguided and misleading.

I have no real argument with you, but this argument has been going on long enough on too many threads.

Agree to disagree and let's move on shall we?


.................................................. .





Well what do we have here Marpat the Masons and OTO Crowley Thelemite worshipper and satanist.
You Two started on me my posts where on topic! I'm one of the more honest people on this Forum.

And Krakhead posted on the forum photo thread that he works in drug rehabilitation really fucking weird that he should call himself Krakhead, I smell bullshit. And you will take sides with uber troll marpat a known liar and bullshiter.

Don't fuck me around either of you. DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN'T COPY AND PASTE.

[eternal_spirit]

Just saying that you increase the odds of contacting a STD the more partners ya have....but every individual has the choice to make whatever decision they want to make in regards to sex etc..... Hopefully, educated decisions.

But then, ya gotta live with the consequences of those choices.

Haven't most of us made some good and not so good choices along the way?

When you going to realise he's taking the piss. If he didn't understand your post before when you said there's more chance of cacthing STD's the more people you sleep with it beggers belief how any one could be so thick! So, he must be on a wind up right?

[thirdwave]

Haven't most of us made some good and not so good choices along the way?

yes or all diforent kinds..

somone might decide to have group sex and regret it...

someone else might decide to have 1 partner for life and regret it...

But your logic behind running a higher risk of STD... is the same as the more times you go out the more chance you have of being hit by a buss... I guess it depends on how much you value going out.

[thirdwave]

When you going to realise he's taking the piss. If he didn't understand your post before when you said there's more chance of cacthing STD's the more people you sleep with it beggers belief how any one could be so thick! So, he must be on a wind up right?

lol, me thick??

dear me! ...

Try reading my post again and stop making a twit of your self... and also stop trying to drag the thread into another ES satanic soap box

[eternal_spirit]

what annoys me is its not good enough for him to have created about 20 threads on the subject but he insists on gate crashing other peoples as well...

he is succeeding in that these subjects cant be discussed properly without his constant spamming and hi jacking butting in... he allways has to drag the Crowley debate into it... its like, for fuck sake the guy died 60 years ago... get over it!

I sense it might be ignore button time.

You're full of shit and a liar why don't you go over to the Crowley forum if you wanna debate with Crowley lovers.
I can make as many threads as I like why don't you make your own and stop trolling the fuck out of mine? Maybe then I wouldn't have to make a many threads dipshit.

[amethyst]

When you going to realise he's taking the piss. If he didn't understand your post before when you said there's more chance of cacthing STD's the more people you sleep with it beggers belief how any one could be so thick! So, he must be on a wind up right?

Thirdwave would make an excellent trial lawyer!:D

maybe you're practicing TW.....planning on changing professions?;)

[eternal_spirit]

lol, me thick??

dear me! ...

Try reading my post again and stop making a twit of your self.

Well you're either thicker than pig shit or dam lair which is it?

[ichi wa zen]

Sex magick Hey!

Dumb ass left-hand path fools will never understand true wisdom! And this openingposter claims he is buddhist too! What a disgrace :(

The foolishness of you Babylonians never ceases to amaze me!

[quetzalcoatl]

Sex magick Hey!

Dumb ass left-hand path fools will never understand true wisdom! And this openingposter claims he is buddhist too! What a disgrace :(

The foolishness of you Babylonians never ceases to amaze me!

Nah.. They/we (or woteva 'I'm not even Human' :p) wont while you keep hording it oh wise one. :rolleyes:

[eternal_spirit]

That is a very limited viewpoint and not entirely valid. It depends on many factors. My own feeling is that the roots of monogamy are based entirely on control of people because you are obliged to cut yourself off from expressing love as nature expresses it. If you feel love outside of that marriage you are forced to repress those feelings. It is to do with emotional security and ownership IMO.

You are correct that sex should be treated as a sacred act but sex magic is just such a sacred act of sex, seeing the divine in both people as they unite in positive intent.

No one would put up with you on a one to one basis. So your choices are limited that's why you joined OTO because you thought you'd be getting some and they even refused your offer :D God I bet your even uglier that those demon avatars you used to have. Admit it it you've never been with a woman have you.

[zero1]

Sex magick Hey!

Dumb ass left-hand path fools will never understand true wisdom! And this openingposter claims he is buddhist too! What a disgrace :(

The foolishness of you Babylonians never ceases to amaze me!

You assume too much, and post like a narrow-minded jerk.

I do not identify with LHP or anything "Babylonian", I am however interested in all things mystical and esoteric.

If you can't discuss sexuality as a full and frank adult, then you have no place calling your ignorant self a "Buddhist" than you claim I do.

Now sit down, little Ichi Wa, because you're a BOY and this thread is for men and women who have knowlege and experience to share.

And don't pollute my thread any further by responding, either.

[krakhead]

No one would put up with you on a one to one basis. So your choices are limited that's why you joined OTO because you thought you'd be getting some and they even refused your offer :D God I bet your even uglier that those demon avatars you used to have. Admit it it you've never been with a woman have you.

Even though it made me laugh (:o) I'm really disappointed in the quality of your comeback ES! ;)

Are we all now officially 12 years old? In which case - You're a smelly eater! :D

[thirdwave]

No one would put up with you on a one to one basis. So your choices are limited that's why you joined OTO because you thought you'd be getting some and they even refused your offer :D God I bet your even uglier that those demon avatars you used to have. Admit it it you've never been with a woman have you.


Well now we see the hypocrite in you... the last time i looked you were quite happy to get snug with a leather clad OTO enthusiast... fully aware of her interests!...

which does raise some interesting questions.

[marpat]

Sex magick Hey!

Dumb ass left-hand path fools will never understand true wisdom! And this openingposter claims he is buddhist too! What a disgrace :(

The foolishness of you Babylonians never ceases to amaze me!

Is that a zen koan or just you being ignorant?

can you gives a description of what the left hand path is before you accuse people of it?

I guess you dont know much about Buddhism. It does have its tantric aspects and some of those deal with sexual issues.

[phildee3]

Here we go!
Another gem heading for the rant room, -
before being trashed permanently.

Grow up, for fuks sake!

[marpat]

Here we go!
Another gem heading for the rant room, -
before being trashed permanently.

Grow up, for fuks sake!

Yes, lets get back to discussing sex magic and how it can be used

Has anybody read the book Secrets of the German sex magicians? lots of useful information in that

[eternal_spirit]

Here we go!
Another gem heading for the rant room, -
before being trashed permanently.

Grow up, for fuks sake!

I know notice they started on me as usual.
I think Marpat should tell us about his experiences in the OTO ......

[eternal_spirit]

Well now we see the hypocrite in you... the last time i looked you were quite happy to get snug with a leather clad OTO enthusiast... fully aware of her interests!...

which does raise some interesting questions.
:D
It wasn't like that and you know it.

[marpat]

I know notice they started on me as usual.
I think Marpat should tell us about his experiences in the OTO ......

Well I could tell you but you would find it very boring, no orgies, no eating poo, no beastality, no blood cookies, no brain washing. Some excellent rituals though.

[eternal_spirit]

Well I could tell you but you would find it very boring, no orgies, no eating poo, no beastality, no blood cookies, no brain washing. Some excellent rituals though.

Cant have been that good or you'd be there now and not spending every day and night on here

[marpat]

Well what do we have here Marpat the Masons and OTO Crowley Thelemite worshipper and satanist.
You Two started on me my posts where on topic! I'm one of the more honest people on this Forum.

And Krakhead posted on the forum photo thread that he works in drug rehabilitation really fucking weird that he should call himself Krakhead, I smell bullshit. And you will take sides with uber troll marpat a known liar and bullshiter.

Don't fuck me around either of you. DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN'T COPY AND PASTE.


When you copy and paste all that stuff across are you not infringing any copyrights?

I think your opinion of me is very negative.

[marpat]

Cant have been that good or you'd be there now and not spending every day and night on here


Bit like yourself really. You must also have a boring life

Sorry to disappoint you but that OTO is not some fantastic satanic orgy mill that outsiders seem to think it is. If it was more like what people say then they would get more members

[marpat]

Right quotes from OTO people and actual OTO rituals isn't poor research. It's Marpat who needs to back off.

You need to define who makes these quotes and what, if any, OTO they are in. You mislead people into believing the OTO is a single organisation when in fact there are many splinter groups with differing ideas and methods, a bit like the church really.

You never comment on any of the obviously positive things that Crowley wrote, even when I have asked you. Is my sig bad?

Lets get back to discussing sex magic.

[damagedbrainn]

Sex magick Hey!

Dumb ass left-hand path fools will never understand true wisdom! And this openingposter claims he is buddhist too! What a disgrace :(

The foolishness of you Babylonians never ceases to amaze me!

Was there like a meeting where all the fundies got together and decided to start calling themselves Buddhists? It's bad enough that you all ruined Jesus for everyone, do you have to do the same with Buddha as well?

[thirdwave]

Yes, lets get back to discussing sex magic and how it can be used

Has anybody read the book Secrets of the German sex magicians? lots of useful information in that

nope.. im still getting brushed up on the base topics.... but im sure the sex part will come in at some point :)


I was thinking that when two people are in love and have sex... that is pretty much a powerful ritual as well.... as hats what it is really...

that's what people don't get... its all magick really..

[marpat]

nope.. im still getting brushed up on the base topics.... but im sure the sex part will come in at some point :)


I was thinking that when two people are in love and have sex... that is pretty much a powerful ritual as well.... as hats what it is really...

that's what people don't get... its all magick really..

Very true. The only real difference with that and a sex magic ritual is the intent but if the intent is to express love and unity then that cannot be a bad thing.

Magic is such an essential part of our daily lives that most people do not even realise that they do it every day to some degree. You dont have to study it to do it, or even be aware of it. It is so tied up with nature and what we are that is can be done unconsiously.

[emanuel]

I don't really know anything on sex magic itself but I had mentioned it before and that it was connected to mind control techniques. At the time I was wondering to myself why there were so many sexual images thrust in our face on a near constant basis.

Think I'll look into it further.

[marpat]

I don't really know anything on sex magic itself but I had mentioned it before and that it was connected to mind control techniques. At the time I was wondering to myself why there were so many sexual images thrust in our face on a near constant basis.

Think I'll look into it further.


Sex magic is not about sex images, it is about movement of sexual energy to achieve expanded consciousness.

How can it be about mind control when the very act of orgasm has the effect of disolving the boundaries of the mind? it is sexual repression that is part of mind programming

There are some good books. Try Ecstacy through Tantra by Dr John Mumford as a starter.

[emanuel]

Sex magic is not about sex images, it is about movement of sexual energy to achieve expanded consciousness.

How can it be about mind control when the very act of orgasm has the effect of disolving the boundaries of the mind? it is sexual repression that is part of mind programming

There are some good books. Try Ecstacy through Tantra by Dr John Mumford as a starter.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing! Maybe closely related but I was talking about how tptb use 'sex' against us. Wouldn't sexual images (and I don't mean flicking through a porn mag) trigger movement of sexual energy?? bit strange if they don't!! and if these energies were capable of being that productive then why do tptb push 'sex' in our faces any chance they get??? What is used for good 'they' can use for bad!

[marpat]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing! Maybe closely related but I was talking about how tptb use 'sex' against us. Wouldn't sexual images (and I don't mean flicking through a porn mag) trigger movement of sexual energy?? bit strange if they don't!! and if these energies were capable of being that productive then why do tptb push 'sex' in our faces any chance they get??? What is used for good 'they' can use for bad!

Images can trigger desire but the trouble is that the image will then be the focus of the energy. This is why porn can be a bit of a trap unless you can exert some control over the energy or redirect it.

[emanuel]

Images can trigger desire but the trouble is that the image will then be the focus of the energy. This is why porn can be a bit of a trap unless you can exert some control over the energy or redirect it.

So by that, I would imagine that sexual imagery would drain that energy? I mean there are sexual images everywhere, on TV, in regular magazines, on posters and billboards. Maybe they want to drain that energy so we struggle to develop our consiousness??

[drael]

Theres a very simple explaination for the prevelance of sexual imagery, especially in advertising. its called association, the good sexual feelings are transfered to something else, like a product. U can train animals using these techniques called :conditioning. So i guess u could say its a low level mind influence type trick.

Plus being obssessed with sex and money keeps one essentially selfish, individual and spiritually unaware. (5 sense illusion and all that)

[thirdwave]

I don't really know anything on sex magic itself but I had mentioned it before and that it was connected to mind control techniques. At the time I was wondering to myself why there were so many sexual images thrust in our face on a near constant basis.

Think I'll look into it further.

because most people are sexually repressed so if you sell something with sex all over it, it makes it hugely attractive.

[thirdwave]

So by that, I would imagine that sexual imagery would drain that energy? I mean there are sexual images everywhere, on TV, in regular magazines, on posters and billboards. Maybe they want to drain that energy so we struggle to develop our consiousness??

you are mixing desire with sex...

seeing a pic of a women will create sexual energy but it will not be released or exercised....

if anything what you are saying highlights the positive effect even more.

for example, if you have not had sex in a year and see sex pics all over the place... it will probably start making you feel quite uptight....

if you get great sex every night, you would barley notice the sexual adds all around you...

[marpat]

So by that, I would imagine that sexual imagery would drain that energy? I mean there are sexual images everywhere, on TV, in regular magazines, on posters and billboards. Maybe they want to drain that energy so we struggle to develop our consiousness??

I dont think that having pics is draining in itself but how we relate to those pic. Some people will not be bothered or even influenced.

I think what you say is true to some degree though, sexually repressed people may feel drained or stressed by images that fight with their repressed emotions.

[emanuel]

Thanks for filling me in on this stuff guys, like I said I don't know jack about it :o

I don't know about highlighting the positive effects though, it's not like tptb want to help us by shoving provocative images in our faces. Sex and the desire for is used in more than just advertising but is very subtle.

[empyblessing]

From the wiki (whatever that is worth): http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

"Orgone energy is a bioenergetic extrapolation of the Freudian concept of libido, offered by psychoanalyst Wilhelm Reich in the late 1930s. Like libido, orgone energy was conceived to be the life force of an individual, but Reich began to treat this energy in increasingly generalized and abstract ways that took it far outside the realm of legitimate psychoanalytic theory.[1] Orgone energy in its full sense was seen as a universal life force flowing through all things, and responsible for almost all observable phenomena; an omnipresent force in nature that could account for a wide variety of phenomena including "the color of the sky, gravity, galaxies, the failure of most political revolutions, and a good orgasm."[2] Reich's followers, such as Charles R. Kelley, went so far as to construe orgone as the creative substratum in all nature, and compared it to Mesmer's animal magnetism, the Odic force of Carl Reichenbach and Henri Bergson's Élan vital.[1] Reich and his followers said that if captured, amplified, and focused – and Reich created orgone accumulators for this purpose – orgone could be used to treat disease, enhance sexuality, and even influence weather patterns. However, modern attempts at making repeatable and reliable measurements of Orgone have failed.[3]

Orgone was closely associated with sexuality: the term itself was chosen to share a root with the word 'orgasm.' The American public, however, was unaccustomed to the clinical conception of sexuality common in Viennese psychoanalytic circles, and so the concept scandalized conventional society even as it appealed to counter-cultural figures like William S. Burroughs and Jack Kerouac. Investigation into orgone was effectively ended when Reich's research was seized and destroyed by the FDA as unapproved medical practices.[citation needed]

Modern day psychiatry and psychoanalysis consider orgone to have no basis in science or medicine.[4]"


"Sex magic or sexual magic is a term for various types of sexual activity used in magical, theurgical, or otherwise religious and spiritual pursuits.

The fundamental premise of sex magic is the concept that the sexual energy, or libido, of the human organism is the most potent force it contains, and harnessing the unique states that arise through sexual activity provides a special experiential conduit for the transcendence of nominal reality.

Two fundamental applications of sexual magic concern the use of the orgasm. Some schools of thought base their use of sex upon the power that the orgasmic release of the sexual energy contains. An example of this type of sex magic is the Great Rite of Wicca, a ritual that involves either symbolic or actual sexual intercourse. This union between the High Priestess and the High Priest represents the union between the Maiden Goddess and the Lover God.

Alternatively, according to Samael Aun Weor, the orgasm is the antithesis of the pursuit of sexual sublimation of the sexual energy into higher forms of creative and spiritual energy rather than expelling it through orgasm."

A saying of the Law of Attraction is: "energy flows where focus goes."

[marpat]

Thanks for filling me in on this stuff guys, like I said I don't know jack about it :o

I don't know about highlighting the positive effects though, it's not like tptb want to help us by shoving provocative images in our faces. Sex and the desire for is used in more than just advertising but is very subtle.

Who said anything about them trying to help us. This thread is about sex magic not sexual manipulation, which is more like the topic you are discussing. Sex magic is a personal experience that is generally used for the expansion of consciousness, or the use of sexual force to empower the self or magical objects.

[marpat]

From the wiki (whatever that is worth): http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic


A saying of the Law of Attraction is: "energy flows where focus goes."


Or more simply 'energy follows thought'

[empyblessing]

I don't believe sex magic is actually magic. I believe it's just something that, in our limited capacity, we have yet to understand. Now when I think of magic I think of some mystic, unexplainable event, which I don't see this as being. I believe that at the point of orgasm the mind may enter into a state which can better harness this energy field. Much like how the mind can view other dimensions (densities) through the use of hallucinogens. I don't believe that either the orgasm nor the drugs are actually required, only the state of mind or consciousness. People confuse the orgasm itself (more accurately sex) with having some power.

I can compare this to how religion has befuddled prayer and ritual, either intentionally or unintentionally. The ceremonies carried out in mass have no power in themselves, but they are intended to create a state of mind of a particular intent. The same can be said with something such as the Lord's Prayer. The words aren't important. Words are empty vacuous vessels of intention and have no meaning. It is the emotion, the response in consciousness behind the words, the prayers, and the ritual which is the desired consequence. It is the mind or the consciousness which is important.

Similarly, anyone who has studied the eastern religions should understand the connection between orgone energy and chi (qi) energy. Tao may also fit into this. Also, the cutting edge of scientific study is into consciousness and particular the idea that we exist in a field of consciousness. The Russians call this torsion fields. I believe that orgone energy, chi, sex magic, torsion fields, and the root of consciousness all stem from the same flow of power. Humans have a limited amount of power to manipulate this energy. Certain states of mind need to be achieved and this can be done in several ways.

[marpat]

I don't believe sex magic is actually magic. I believe it's just something that, in our limited capacity, we have yet to understand. Now when I think of magic I think of some mystic, unexplainable event, which I don't see this as being. I believe that at the point of orgasm the mind may enter into a state which can better harness this energy field. Much like how the mind can view other dimensions (densities) through the use of hallucinogens. I don't believe that either the orgasm nor the drugs are actually required, only the state of mind or consciousness. People confuse the orgasm itself (more accurately sex) with having some power.

I can compare this to how religion has befuddled prayer and ritual, either intentionally or unintentionally. The ceremonies carried out in mass have no power in themselves, but they are intended to create a state of mind of a particular intent. The same can be said with something such as the Lord's Prayer. The words aren't important. Words are empty vacuous vessels of intention and have no meaning. It is the emotion, the response in consciousness behind the words, the prayers, and the ritual which is the desired consequence. It is the mind or the consciousness which is important.

Similarly, anyone who has studied the eastern religions should understand the connection between orgone energy and chi (qi) energy. Tao may also fit into this. Also, the cutting edge of scientific study is into consciousness and particular the idea that we exist in a field of consciousness. The Russians call this torsion fields. I believe that orgone energy, chi, sex magic, torsion fields, and the root of consciousness all stem from the same flow of power. Humans have a limited amount of power to manipulate this energy. Certain states of mind need to be achieved and this can be done in several ways.

Yes the mind is important but the emotional stimulus of sex helps to focus the mind and concentrate the effect.

A simple formula for magic is Desire-Will-manifestation.

[seanx]

A simple formula for magic is Desire-Will-manifestation.

Useless formula, surely unless your belief is in
alignment with all the above.

Otherwise all you will experience is conflict. One part of you wanting
something while the deepest part of you 'believes' you can't get it.

Is it fair to say --take away all the symbols and 'hocus-pocus' of the
magic of the ancients ...and you'll find the the laws of conscious
creation we're rediscovering today?

[marpat]

Useless formula, surely unless your belief is in
alignment with all the above.

Otherwise all you will experience is conflict. One part of you wanting
something while the deepest part of you 'believes' you can't get it.

Is it fair to say --take away all the symbols and 'hocus-pocus' of the
magic of the ancients ...and you'll find the the laws of conscious
creation we're rediscovering today?


If that was the case then it would not work. Magic is not dependent upon belief but depends upon correct method.

You can see this method in anything in life. If you desire something strongly then you apply your will to achieving your desire and then it manifests, unless something happens to ruin the desire or the will. Is this not so? so much for useless formulae.

You cannot take away the symbols without replacing them with something else as the subconscious responds to imagery. Superstition is the field of those who believe without undertanding. The laws you mention are nothing new and were never lost. They had to be hidden under viels of symbolism to survive their destruction by the church.

[emanuel]

Who said anything about them trying to help us. This thread is about sex magic not sexual manipulation, which is more like the topic you are discussing. Sex magic is a personal experience that is generally used for the expansion of consciousness, or the use of sexual force to empower the self or magical objects.

Yeah like I said, I don't know jack about it. But now I'm thinking what good is sex magic if it is interupted?

[marpat]

Yeah like I said, I don't know jack about it. But now I'm thinking what good is sex magic if it is interupted?

I think you are looking at the subject with biased eyes. You seem to be of the opinion that it is inherently bad for some reason. If you want to get a real appreciation of the subject you need to read some material that is about it not just stuff that condemns it.

[ninja17]

Does not magic play with the emotions and desires of the body ultimately making the person a slave to it?

[marpat]

Does not magic play with the emotions and desires of the body ultimately making the person a slave to it?


Nope and I dont know where you got such a strange idea. Sounds like something a christian would say.

[ninja17]

What is strange about that idea?...And what has it to do with "Christianity"?

Behold..:D

I just could imagine that when you have deep desires and wishes that you would like to realize through magic your luck automaticly depends on it...making you a "slave" to it. Because if it wouldnt come true you feel like a jerk:)...i mean unhappy.

[thirdwave]

What is strange about that idea?...And what has it to do with "Christianity"?

Well I thought it was strange as just because something has the power to play with emotions it does not make you a slave to it... our emotions are what make us human... if something can interact with them I fail to see how we can become enslaved, unless we have no control over it, which is exactly what magick is about...trying to master that... if you were to say, would a bad magician not be a slave to his emotions, then maybe that might make sense.

And I dont think it was said the comment had anything to do with Christianity... it was a dig in that christians are ignorant as to what Magick is... and you also sounded ignorant to what it is.



I just could imagine that when you have deep desires and wishes that you would like to realize through magic your luck automaticly depends on it...making you a "slave" to it. Because if it wouldnt come true you feel like a jerk:)...i mean unhappy.


Well good magicians have always taught not to be a slave to the expectations of magick... so right there what you are saying is out the window...

Crowley often said one must not lust after result.

[phildee3]

christians are ignorant as to what Magick is...



What!!!

The Eucharist is the highest form of magic that there is!!!!!

[thirdwave]

What!!!

The Eucharist is the highest form of magic that there is!!!!!

well maybe it is... but that does not mean that christians understand the magician concept of it.. or that is indeed good for you..

the mere fact that most christians (if not all) see magick (the occult) as the devils tools is clean enough indication that they don't understand it.

[ninja17]

unless we have no control over it, which is exactly what magick is about...trying to master that... if you were to say, would a bad magician not be a slave to his emotions, then maybe that might make sense.

Ok, I never red that its about mastering the emotions. If its like that then magick is potentially helpfull for a person.

It was just bit of a contradiction for me but thx for clearing this up..

[deathcultreject]

To-cum-or-not-to-cum, that is the question, eh? So, do you? Ejeculate, orgasm etc? During sex magic, I mean.

So?

At the moment I'm not supposed to orgasm during some kinds of Holy Guardian Angel rituals with a certain partner, because my holy guardian angel is very angry, and she's the path of least resistance for it to lash out at some wrong doers.

It's ironic that my higher self would direct me to serve and please someone who's disloyal because spirit justice working through them would destroy them.

Orgasms in ritual can last a lot longer and be a lot more intense than muggles sex.

I'm not trying to lure or corrupt anyone by saying this, I'm just saying it how it is because I'm a nice person.

[deathcultreject]

It is an interesting topic.

The book then described a simple sexual ritual that the Celts used to
do in a field to improve fertility.

A group of six men would have sex with a group of six woman -
and for the ritual to be effective - they must all reach orgasmic
climax together - and with this burst of living, virile vigorous energy
- they must imagine this extraordinary energy that gives life to all
life seeping into the earth, renewing and nourishing it - and then
visualize an abundant crop growing form it.


Are you telling me that my ancestors could synchronise 12 people into a simultaneous orgasm?

That's intense.

Are there five couples on here who'd like to meet up and give it a try? We could heal the planet or bring down the price of bio fuels maybe.

Don't all rush at once . . .

[deathcultreject]

ok seriously, i met a 60yr old guy from texas he was really into the essene particularly the translations by Edmond Bordeaux Szekely, anyway.

he said that the women on earth at the moment distrust men and are really hurt, this was 1999 btw. and that we as men when having sex with women have to send, well when they are reaching orgasm we visualise sending the energy from the woman back to the centre of the earth and help to heal them instead of taking the energy from them.

he said since he started doing it he would just happen to meet women who required this healing ! no shit

when i got home i tried it a couple of times i felt good whilst doing it and i suppose it was healing. i didn't have the guts to tell the lady what i was visualizing.

is that sex magic?

Personaly, I'd call it spiritual growth on your part, brought about by your respect for your elders and your good will to your lover.

But call it sex magic if you like :)

[deathcultreject]

That's true - but imagine you had six such couples who in close
resonance and understanding with each other were able to
combine their sexual energies and at the moment of orgasmic
climax fuse their energies to promote and infuse a positive thoughform
into global consciousness.

Why should these techniques only be left to the Elite to be pervertly
used to create negatively-charged thoughtforms that will dominate
the collective unconscious to be picked up unconciously and
acted upon by the mass sleeping mind?

What if we designated a half an hour slot and invited everyone around the world to have an orgasm within it for a specific intention?

Awakening, openmindedness, compassion and responsibility in ourselves and others perhaps?

[thirdwave]

Ok, I never red that its about mastering the emotions. If its like that then magick is potentially helpfull for a person.

It was just bit of a contradiction for me but thx for clearing this up..

Magick includes meditation... breathing exercises... in fact Crowley taught people that a magician should spend definitely no less than an hour a day doing breathing exercises...

some aspects also teach how important it is to have your mind in unity with the body... much like Yoga... there is much more to it than demons and angels... so on..

I allways see it like the Jedi and the Sith....

the Sith uses the ego to destroy the self and gain power by the ego consuming "the force" and wanting more and more, always fuelled and ignited by fear.... (Evil Magicians)

and the Jedi takes control of the ego and and allows the self to connect to the core source (the force). (Good Magicians)

I allways find Star Wars to be very much on the mark

[jojo]

What if we designated a half an hour slot and invited everyone around the world to have an orgasm within it for a specific intention?

Awakening, openmindedness, compassion and responsibility in ourselves and others perhaps?


Thats actually a good idea! haha, when? ;)

[phildee3]

the mere fact that most christians (if not all) see magick (the occult) as the devils tools is clean enough indication that they don't understand it.



How would you know, speaking from outside the practice (of sacramental Christianity)?
Most Christians that I know (and I'm a practicing member of the clergy) don't see it this way at all!
How can you not view transubstantiation as magic?
Some don't, I admit, but these are pretty simple folks.

Why do you think we have the term "black" magic, if not to distinguish it from "white" magic?

[marpat]

What is strange about that idea?...And what has it to do with "Christianity"?

Behold..:D

I just could imagine that when you have deep desires and wishes that you would like to realize through magic your luck automaticly depends on it...making you a "slave" to it. Because if it wouldnt come true you feel like a jerk:)...i mean unhappy.

Wrong because the way to success in to not be attached to the result.

[thirdwave]

How would you know, speaking from outside the practice (of sacramental Christianity)?
Most Christians that I know (and I'm a practicing member of the clergy) don't see it this way at all!
How can you not view transubstantiation as magic?
Some don't, I admit, but these are pretty simple folks.

Why do you think we have the term "black" magic, if not to distinguish it from "white" magic?

well black magick does not mean evil...

christians cant even agree with what they are anyway....

it seems like a word they all want to be apart of but cant really agree what it is and what it stands for...

But the regular christian will view the occult as evil...

if there some who dont and actually feel they practice aspects of the occult then I would be interested what and what they feel the 10 commandments and Jesus Christ would make of it...

[phildee3]

christians cant even agree with what they are anyway....

it seems like a word they all want to be apart of but cant really agree what it is and what it stands for...



Just like any large group of people!



But the regular christian will view the occult as evil...



If they're all so different, how can there be a "regular" Christian? :rolleyes:



if there some who dont and actually feel they practice aspects of the occult then I would be interested what and what they feel the 10 commandments and Jesus Christ would make of it...



Jesus Christ loves it.
Being a keen occultist himself he usually joins us at such times,
but only when it's for the "greater good" and not for selfish purposes.

The ten commandments is a text, not a sentient being. How can it "make anything " out of anything!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[thirdwave]

Just like any large group of people!

There is only 1 book that these people refer too.... one teacher...

anything else would be a newly created religion and if they insist on useing the christian title, then they should expect to be generalised... unless they want to change their names to... christian version 2.1



If they're all so different, how can there be a "regular" Christian? :rolleyes:
Because a christian has been allways described as a person who follows the teachings of the bible and Jesus Christ....

Im not sure what type you are... fair enough if you claim to be something else... but like I say christian is a follower of the bible.. and the 10 commandments... and this is how I will judge them.


Jesus Christ loves it.
Being a keen occultist himself he usually joins us at such times.
If this person was indeed a real person then yes I agree... as he would have clearly been a sorcerer him self, in fact an extremely knowledgeable and powerful one....


The ten commandments is a text, not a sentient being. How can it "make anything " out of anything!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hu???

of course its a text.... a texts that christians are mean to live by.... to make the question clearer... if you were to practice the occult while interacting with other "gods" than Jesus Christ... how would that sit with the 10 commandments?

I guess if you only worked with one god... and that god being Jesus Christ then it might be ok....

but then again... that's what christians do....

which highlights my first point.... if you are saying there are some christians that willingley only interact with one god and his wishes...

then I would say you are not as duped as most of the others in that you understand what you are doing... and I would say, well knock your self out, but would have to scratch my head...

[phildee3]

like I say christian is a follower of the bible.. and the 10 commandments... and this is how I will judge them.



The ten commandments are laws for the Jews.

Jesus' two commandments are laws for Christians.

The bible is a Roman compilation of Jewish (old testament) and Christian (new testament) scriptures.

You can't "follow" the bible. It doesn't have legs! :rolleyes:
Neither can you "follow it's teachings." It's not a coherent set (of teachings).



to make the question clearer... if you were to practice the occult while interacting with other "gods" than Jesus Christ... how would that sit with the 10 commandments?



I think the commandment which you're thinking of is "thou shalt have no gods before me" (ie. that you place above me).

We have angels and saints which are, effectively, demi-gods.

(although the ten commandments are laws for the Jews, and so apply to their god, they also apply to the Christian G_d because Jesus' two commandments are a fulfullment of the ten, not a replacement).

[thirdwave]

The ten commandments are laws for the Jews.

Jesus' two commandments are laws for Christians.

The bible is a Roman compilation of Jewish (old testament) and Christian (new testament) scriptures.

You can't "follow" the bible. It doesn't have legs! :rolleyes:
Neither can you "follow it's teachings." It's not a coherent set (of teachings).

it allways makes me laugh when they say.. "it was the jews teachings" ... It does not matter it was put in the bible by the people who created it!

it is the bible that established "Jesus Christ".... please forward me any others!

if you are saying that the bible has been mixed and mashed and is not the real christian teachings... again forward me what you have learnt from and I shall read it...

it sounds like you have made your own little belief up... and call it Christianity.. great, good for you, I am referring to Christians who follow (which means live there lives by... build a faith around... simple if you stop being pedantic) the bible... and the bible includes some teachings from the old Testament...

and Jesus him self approves this by his own texts..



I think the commandment which you're thinking of is "thou shalt have no gods before me" (ie. that you place above me).

We have angels and saints which are, effectively, demi-gods.

ahh ok so you are not practising magick with other gods....

so you have messengers for god ( christ ) ... so again you are still only chanaling one source...


(although the ten commandments are laws for the Jews, and so apply to their god, they also apply to the Christian G_d because Jesus' two commandments are a fulfullment of the ten, not a replacement).

yeah yeah.... paint it up how ever you like... the 10 commandments in the Christian Bible and are there plane and clear.

just because they originated in the previous pack of lies it does not mean they are not apart of the new pack.

if they are not christian values that Jesus Christ supports, then they would not be in there!

what book did you read that urged you to become a christian???

[phildee3]

it allways makes me laugh when they say.. "it was the jews teachings" ... It does not matter it was put in the bible by the people who created it!

it is the bible that established "Jesus Christ"....



That would be the book of the Gospels -
which was later expanded to include the epistles.

The Jewish bible (OT) was added to the Christian bible, by Augustine, in 393 AD to make the first Roman bible.



it sounds like you have made your own little belief up... and call it Christianity.. great, good for you, I am referring to Christians who follow (which means live there lives by... build a faith around... simple if you stop being pedantic) the bible...



Which one?



yeah yeah.... paint it up how ever you like... the 10 commandments in the Christian Bible and are there plane and clear.

just because they originated in the previous pack of lies it does not mean they are not apart of the new pack.

if they are not christian values that Jesus Christ supports, then they would not be in there!



So you believe that Augustine (and his puppet-master, Constantine) were carrying out the will of Jesus Christ?



what book did you read that urged you to become a christian?



None.

Roman Catholicism (and it's branches) may be a belief system,
Christianity is not, it is a relationship (with Christ), -
an experience.

[thirdwave]

That would be the book of the Gospels -
which was later expanded to include the epistles.

The Jewish bible (OT) was added to the Christian bible, by Augustine, in 393 AD to make the first Roman bible.

Ok, and where are the details of the rebel against this?? ..I trust there was one?.. or where they all sleeping?

are you talking about all the Druids that where killed? ... because apparently some here think they also were out to get Christianity! :rolleyes:


Which one?

which one do you choose?



So you believe that Augustine (and his puppet-master, Constantine) were carrying out the will of Jesus Christ?

No, I think the Jesus Christ story is full of shit... his will is not understood in any known bible or texts.. if he was a real person then the texts would have been destroyed long ago with all the other genuine profits texts... and I highly doubt Jesus was his name, or that he wished to have Christ as his sir name!

None.

Roman Catholicism (and it's branches) may be a belief system,
Christianity is not, it is a relationship (with Christ), -
an experience.

ok, so you are basing it all on faith and not from texts....

I don't care about Catholicism that is not only what the bible is about.... Christianity was created from the findings of the texts that made up the bible.

unless you can show me what texts you feel are the genuine representation of Christ... then Im not sure what you are saying?

are you saying you have had an angel come to you an announce Christ?

if so then fair enough, but this does not really answer my point raised.

Christ is just a word and state of mind... its not a belief or a religion and it was certainly not introduced by 1 man 2000 years ago and it is not a god that is outside of the self.... it has been around for ever and if anything there was much more knowledge if it way before 2000 years ago...

it has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ or the bible.... and doubt it has always been called "Christ"..

[phildee3]

Ok, and where are the details of the rebel against this?? ..I trust there was one?.. or where they all sleeping?



Constantine was a ruthless dictator and mass murderer.
Those that stood up to him were brutally butchered.
Some pretended to "convert" to the state's false "Christianity," in order to survive and continue their good works in secret.



"Roman Catholicism (and it's branches) may be a belief system,
Christianity is not, it is a relationship (with Christ), -
an experience."

ok, so you are basing it all on faith and not from texts....



No, not from either.
What part of Ex-per-i-ence do you not understand?



Christianity was created from the findings of the texts that made up the bible...

...it has been around for ever and if anything there was much more knowledge if it way before 2000 years ago...



Uh, make up my mind for me, will you? :confused:

Your second statement is correct one.

The rest of your posting is so utterly confused (or just plain silly) that it is unadressable.

[amercury]

Wrong because the way to success in to not be attached to the result.


How do we avoid being attached to the result?

If I desire something I am ususally attached to it in some way. Do we just avoid all thought and emotion surrounding it? I can get into a state where I am unattached, but I usually slip back into being attached. Any advice would be appreciated:)

[thirdwave]

Constantine was a ruthless dictator and mass murderer.
Those that stood up to him were brutally butchered.
Some pretended to "convert" to the state's false "Christianity," in order to survive and continue their good works in secret.

Ok So I agree that the birth of the christian institutions that have been going on for hundreds of years are based on murderers.... the people who created the bible...

I also belive these same powers are the powers that slaughtered many people who were not christians... and were into other faiths... Druids... so on...

What I am interested to hear from you is what teachings or texts.... are you defending? .... can you advize me some?.... where did you come across them? ... what did Constantine attack?

as far as I can see he attacked many spiritual people with different views... nothing to do with setting out to attack Christ...

they simply just created Christianity as a form of over powering other spiritual faiths...

you seem to agree and have it right when you understand that the people who created the bible and have pushed that religion for so many years are wrong... but you seem to be saying that it was a cover up for the "true christinity" Im simply asking you what that is... and where it came from?


No, not from either.
What part of Ex-per-i-ence do you not understand?
well I do not share your experiences... if you wish for somone to understand a point of view based on your expirience then you need to express them better..

as it stands you are not pointing me to any teachings... as you have just admitted the ones in the bible are corrupt.... and have not offered an alternative... and you now just claim it is your expirience that makes you believe in Jesus Christ... well I cant agree or understand where you are coming from unless you try to at least explain your self..

This is why it appears to be a faith.... I am happy to believe you have had your own personal experiences... but I am and have been clearly referring to the bible and what it has been teaching for hundreds of years...

Im not even sure where you are coming from now.


Uh, make up my mind for me, will you? :confused:
I don't even know what piece of mind you have at the moment..

Your second statement is correct one.

The rest of your posting is so utterly confused (or just plain silly) that it is unadressable.


You seem to agree with everything I have said... yet still disagree... which has left me a tad bit baffled.

I have pointed out that Christianity as introduced by the bible IMO is full of shit... Before then.. it was not defined as a religion... or a rule book... or anything to do with Jesus Christ...

If you agree with this then I believe we have been wasting out time... if you don't then I would be open and interested to learn more.

[phildee3]

Ok So I agree that the birth of the christian institutions that have been going on for hundreds of years are based on murderers.... the people who created the bible...



This is much too much of a generalisation.
Constantine was a murderer.
He was basically the founder of the state church of Rome whose bible was the first to include the Jewish scriptures.
It was compiled (not "created") in 393 AD at the Synod of Hippo.
So you have almost 400 years of Christianity, and various Christian bibles, before that.

That Christianity was rural (ie. pagan), - in Britain and N Europe, Celtic (ie. Druidic).



I also belive these same powers are the powers that slaughtered many people who were not christians...



Constantine's victims were the early Christians.
He effectively wiped out the true religion and replaced it with a fake one, destroying all the manuscripts containing the rites of the church, the liturgies, music, everything.
A few monks kept these secrets hidden and passed them down orally.



they simply just created Christianity as a form of over powering other spiritual faiths...



They created a Roman state religion, one with a dogma to enslave the people, and overpowered the original Christianity which was gnostic and liberating.



you seem to agree and have it right when you understand that the people who created the bible and have pushed that religion for so many years are wrong... but you seem to be saying that it was a cover up for the "true christinity" Im simply asking you what that is... and where it came from?



It comes from the Christos, through Jesus and the apostles.



as it stands you are not pointing me to any teachings... as you have just admitted the ones in the bible are corrupt....



The pure teachings are in there, some corrupted to varying degrees, mixed with complete fabrications.
It's not possible to come to Christ via the bible.
One must first experience and know Christ to be able to recognise his voice in the texts.



I have pointed out that Christianity as introduced by the bible IMO is full of shit... Before then.. it was not defined as a religion...



It most certainly was.
In Britain it was what is now generally called "Celtic Christianity" since the Druids were the first to give hospitality to the first missionaries, as they recognised the message which they themselves had already forseen.

[marpat]

How do we avoid being attached to the result?

If I desire something I am ususally attached to it in some way. Do we just avoid all thought and emotion surrounding it? I can get into a state where I am unattached, but I usually slip back into being attached. Any advice would be appreciated:)

Have you ever done anything where you are not attached to the outcome, ie. played a game where you are not bothered if you win? this is what I mean. Perhaps it is not possible to be 100% detached.

[marpat]

While christianity seems to be popular I read that Crowley and Reuss where using some sex magic techniques that may have been used by Jesus.

I also watched a documentry on the gospel of Judas in which Jesus invites Judas to share his bed. Maybe he used sex magic himself.

[deathcultreject]

Thats actually a good idea! haha, when? ;)

Yay jojo :cool:

I think we should pick a time in a few weeks time and then shamelessly promote the idea to the world!

[amercury]

Have you ever done anything where you are not attached to the outcome, ie. played a game where you are not bothered if you win? this is what I mean. Perhaps it is not possible to be 100% detached.

Thanks, I know what you mean.:)

[thirdwave]

This is much too much of a generalisation.
Constantine was a murderer.
He was basically the founder of the state church of Rome whose bible was the first to include the Jewish scriptures.
It was compiled (not "created") in 393 AD at the Synod of Hippo.
So you have almost 400 years of Christianity, and various Christian bibles, before that.

That Christianity was rural (ie. pagan), - in Britain and N Europe, Celtic (ie. Druidic).


Ahh well yes but this has nothing to do with Jesus Christ... nothing at all to do with Christianity of today... nothing to do with the churches... the bible of today.... nothing to do with Jesus Christ... and I don't believe the world Christianity existed back then... maybe the word "Christ" did.


Constantine's victims were the early Christians.
although they were not called Christians.... did not have a bible... did not know anything about Jesus Christ...

they were simply spiritual enlightened people.. much like David Icke.


He effectively wiped out the true religion and replaced it with a fake one,

Yes I agree... although what they wiped out was not religion... it was not set of rules and beliefs ... it was an understanding.. a knowledge.... that worked! .... and this is why it was killed.

the concept of Jesus Christ was that there where many Jesus Christ.... and none of them had anything to do with the bible...




destroying all the manuscripts containing the rites of the church, the liturgies, music, everything.
A few monks kept these secrets hidden and passed them down orally.

Yes there were loads of texts burnt ... from civilisations from all over the world.... there were not christians.... and the texts that did speak of Christ was not "Christianity" ... it was simply knowledge... understanding... its intention was not to create a religion but to teach people.....

everything we know about Christianity today that is in the bible was put there by the people who have hidden this knowledge.... do you really think there is any value left in "Christianity".... or is the knowledge they hid and killed from people all over the world more important?

why is it called Christianity?... why has it been confined to a faith?


They created a Roman state religion, one with a dogma to enslave the people, and overpowered the original Christianity which was gnostic and liberating.

there is no original Christianity... ask the people who you are talking about all those years ago what Christianity is they would not know what you are talking about...

that would be like going back to a cave man who has started to enjoy the benefits of fire and asking him to teach him about Flameoranity...

they would look at you are say.... eeerrrrr, you mean fire right?.


It comes from the Christos, through Jesus and the apostles.

and this is where I have pointed out that is your faith... as these is NOTHING except what's in the bible you have admitted your self to be corrupt that tells us anything of Jesus and his apostles.... you a simply putting faith in the pages they have given the world... and saying that although its a corrupt book...you think its true and the real deal of it has been hidden...

that's fine if that's what you want to believe... but it is simply faith as there is not one texts you can point me to which was not put there by the institutions you have admitted to be wrong.

In fact there is much research to point out that the whole Jesus Story is as real as Batman.

IMO there are texts tucked in the bible that were from certain people who had an understanding of spirituality... and now and again you read some of it in the bible.... So I am not counting out there within it are segments of wise knowing words... but much of it can be understood in other books now anyway...

Im not going to tell you to change your faith... that's up to you... but lets be fair and address what it is.


The pure teachings are in there, some corrupted to varying degrees, mixed with complete fabrications.
some yes.... but obviously only what people are permitted to read and texts that passed the grade and where not destroyed... and its not really out of the question that a a few touch ups where not done...


It's not possible to come to Christ via the bible.
One must first experience and know Christ to be able to recognise his voice in the texts.

Christ, Higher self, sub concious, your spirit.... God..... The creator..... the universe...

is within....

it is not from Jesus... not from texts....(although they can help people not to forget about it) and when you understand what Christ it..then IMO the word Christianity is a silly word.

Allah is also Christ... means the same thing....



It most certainly was.
In Britain it was what is now generally called "Celtic Christianity" since the Druids were the first to give hospitality to the first missionaries, as they recognised the message which they themselves had already forseen.

I see and what do we know about that? and what do you make of the Celtic Cross?

[phildee3]

"Constantine's victims were the early Christians." PD

although they were not called Christians.... did not have a bible... did not know anything about Jesus Christ...



A four gospel canon (the Tetramorph) was asserted by Irenaeus, c. 160.
By the early 200's, Origen may have been using the same 27 books as in the modern New Testament, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of Hebrews, James, II Peter, II and III John, and Revelation (see also Antilegomena).

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

[phildee3]

what do you make of the Celtic Cross?



It reflects Celtic Christian theology -
which is neither patriarchal nor matriarchal but a perfect balance between genders as well as all other polarities, earth and sky, light and dark, etc...

Thanks for bringing this back on topic...
well done!

[thirdwave]

A four gospel canon (the Tetramorph) was asserted by Irenaeus, c. 160.
By the early 200's, Origen may have been using the same 27 books as in the modern New Testament, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of Hebrews, James, II Peter, II and III John, and Revelation (see also Antilegomena).

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

fair enough but im not sure what this proves...

[phildee3]

fair enough but im not sure what this proves...



Nothing can be proven, but -

it suggests that, contrary to your assertions, there were bibles before Constantine, that they were distinct and seperate from the Judaic texts and there were Christians (although the word for them was different, of course, seeing as they didn't speak modern English).

[thirdwave]

Nothing can be proven, but -

it suggests that, contrary to your assertions, there were bibles before Constantine, that they were distinct and seperate from the Judaic texts and there were Christians (although the word for them was different, of course, seeing as they didn't speak modern English).

But this is not what is being debated by people who do not believe in Christianity.. (my self anyway) ....

you are talking a an understanding that has been shared by many cultures and civilisations.. and insist on linking it with the pile of crap put out by the likes of Constantine...

of course there has been older texts... and they have all been destroied by the people who create the bible we know of today...

but this does not mean that Jesus has been attacked and sabotaged... and it does not mean that the bible has changed Christianity..

the ponly thing it proves is ancient knowledge and understanding has been attacked killed and corrupted...

but this covers a wide range of knowledge..including many occult practices that is still given a bad name to this day..

show me a program or film that has shown an occult movement to be positive!... none...

when people here the world Occult they think of evil.. and darkness...

I believe as was as allot of other symbolic references, Jesus Christ pretty much stands of many wise shamans, druids ...prophets who used to try and educate people of the true nature of reality... they were oppressed and the bible was created to keep it oppressed...

prior to the Christians as we know it there were simply many groups of people who understood the knowledge... they were not a religious group of people...

the cross did not mean a tool of death... there where no 10 commandments... and to be honest maybe they to had more to learn and develop but never got the chance...

[phildee3]

But this is not what is being debated by people who do not believe in Christianity.. (my self anyway) ....



but I do believe in Christianity
so the debate is wider than that.

Besides, the debate could use some input from an "insider."
A bunch of people who've never tasted chocolate ain't gonna get very far debating it's flavour!



you are talking a an understanding that has been shared by many cultures and civilisations.. and insist on linking it with the pile of crap put out by the likes of Constantine...



You are linking Christianity to the pile of crap put out by the likes of Constantine...



of course there has been older texts... and they have all been destroied by the people who create the bible we know of today...



Altered, not destroyed.
You cannot destroy Truth -
only hide it (beneath a pile of crap).



when people here the world Occult they think of evil.. and darkness...



unfortunately...



I believe as was as allot of other symbolic references, Jesus Christ pretty much stands of many wise shamans, druids ...prophets who used to try and educate people of the true nature of reality... they were oppressed and the bible was created to keep it oppressed...



not created, -
corrupted.

I thought we just took care of this!!!



prior to the Christians as we know it there were simply many groups of people who understood the knowledge... they were not a religious group of people...



They had more than an understanding -
they had a oneness with their Lord.



the cross did not mean a tool of death... there where no 10 commandments...



correct



and to be honest maybe they to had more to learn and develop but never got the chance...



yes we did -
underground,
hidden.

[thirdwave]

Well if that's what you want to believe then good on you...


Like I say if you think its more than faith and there are available texts that I could benafit from then throw em over...

[seanx]

phildee3 wrote:

but I do believe in Christianity

Interesting.

I believe there could have been a man like Jesus who was capable of
doing all the things that were attributed to him.

If you read Icke's books, he provides the recent discoveries in
science, especially quantum physics that prove that man is capable of
extraordinary things.

Like what 'Jesus' did.

And if there was a Jesus - I think his goal or aim was to show
people who, at that time had sunk to the lowest level of the
material universe that:

'Look, Look at me, there is MORE to life than death. We are
extraordinary beings- EVEN capable of transmuting death. We
can even turn water into wine. So can't you see matter is an
illusion - and life a game that we have forgotten is a game.

Instead, we got the christian religion who perverted the whole meaning
of Jesus and turned it into a moral, meaningless political organization.


And they wonder why the churches are empty?

Why are'nt the priests healing the sick like Jesus?

[phildee3]

I believe there could have been a man like Jesus who was capable of
doing all the things that were attributed to him.

If you read Icke's books, he provides the recent discoveries in
science, especially quantum physics that prove that man is capable of
extraordinary things.

Like what 'Jesus' did.

And if there was a Jesus - I think his goal or aim was to show
people who, at that time had sunk to the lowest level of the
material universe that:

'Look, Look at me, there is MORE to life than death. We are
extraordinary beings- EVEN capable of transmuting death. We
can even turn water into wine. So can't you see matter is an
illusion - and life a game that we have forgotten is a game.



Excellant, Sean!
Right on!



Instead, we got the christian religion who perverted the whole meaning
of Jesus and turned it into a moral, meaningless political organization.



It was I]people [/I] who perverted the whole meaning of Jesus and turned the Christian religion into a moral, meaningless political organization



Why aren't the priests healing the sick like Jesus?



Because they don't know how to.
They no longer discipline themselves to.
The Anglicans and RCs have eliminated the minor orders which included the Order of Healer.

Old Catholics and most independent Catholics have retained this sacrament,
so some are (healing people).

[deathcultreject]

Jesus was possibly a celibate and he could achieve wonderful things.

Just imagine what he could have achieved with sex magic as well!

We have a thread for actually practicing sex magic here . . .

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

Don't be shy . . .

[thirdwave]

Jesus was possibly a celibate and he could achieve wonderful things.

Just imagine what he could have achieved with sex magic as well!

We have a thread for actually practicing sex magic here . . .

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

Don't be shy . . .

the thing is.. we have to take into account that even the enlightened ones back then where not gods.... and they to had room to evolve...

maybe sex... had they had ruled the world and carried on their civilisations maybe sex magick would have been introduced as they become more mature and knowledgeable...

[deathcultreject]

the thing is.. we have to take into account that even the enlightened ones back then where not gods.... and they to had room to evolve...

maybe sex... had they had ruled the world and carried on their civilisations maybe sex magick would have been introduced as they become more mature and knowledgeable...

I think there has allways been sex magic. The oldest writings from Sumeria certainly include it anyway.

I meant the Jesus comment as a playful way of plugging the world wide sex magic project for awakeing etc. in which participants may join in by bringing theirself to orgasm in any way that doesn't hurt anyone.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

[marpat]

I think there has allways been sex magic. The oldest writings from Sumeria certainly include it anyway.

I meant the Jesus comment as a playful way of plugging the world wide sex magic project for awakeing etc. in which participants may join in by bringing theirself to orgasm in any way that doesn't hurt anyone.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

I think in terms of polarity sex and magic cannot be seperated.

I watched a documentary about the Gospel of judas and they were saying that Jesus reveals to Judas what his role will be, but he invites him to share his bed as part of the process.

I was also reading some stuff about the sex magic Crowley and Reuss were working on regarding consumation of semen as the physical embodiment of the logos, but text also states that jesus himself may have used such methods, according to research done by French occultists.

[jojo]

Yay jojo :cool:

I think we should pick a time in a few weeks time and then shamelessly promote the idea to the world!

fine by me! when would you suggest?

what should we intend to happen? any ideas? only positive, enlightening suggestions pls.

the more people who want to use sexual energy to change things for the better the more powerful the spell will be.

[seanx]

phildee3 wrote:


Because they don't know how to.
They no longer discipline themselves to.
The Anglicans and RCs have eliminated the minor orders which included the Order of Healer.
Old Catholics and most independent Catholics have retained this sacrament,
so some are (healing people).

Interesting post.

What is this the Order of Healer ? I 've never heard of it.

It sounds interesting.

Even as a kid, brought up as a Catholic, you'd hear the priest talking
about Jesus and his healings and you would read the gospels and
they'd quote Jesus saying things like: 'These things I have done and
YOU SHALL DO MORE'

But of course, the priests were capable of doing nothing and even
as a young kid, you knew these guys were con artists.

That something was missing.

That their 'Christianity' was a con. Just a job for them. A way
to make a living in those difficult economic times.

[deathcultreject]

fine by me! when would you suggest?

what should we intend to happen? any ideas? only positive, enlightening suggestions pls.

the more people who want to use sexual energy to change things for the better the more powerful the spell will be.

Yay, now there are three of us :)

I've made a suggestion for intention here;

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

but feel free to change it.

[jojo]

Yay, now there are three of us :)

I've made a suggestion for intention here;

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

but feel free to change it.

Ive responded to your thread above.