Cobain murdered by CIA

[mrguitarbear]

I thought this was an interesting thread on the BBC site :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/11/addicted_to_warcraft.html

Yes , we treat the minds of troubled adolescents at the Tavistock Institute...

http://img.timeinc.net/time/europe/magazine/2006/0710/londonbusbomb.jpg

[mrguitarbear]

Katy Perry recently hosted the MTV Europe Awards in Liverpool UK ( Nov 6th 2008 ) which saw her adopt 10 different costume changes including a dress with Barack Obama's face on it and a composite costume made up of male dress in black and female dress in white ( don't have a picture sorry ).

MTV are definitely connected to all this , remember the Britney-Madonna kiss ?

Anyway , a few days later Perry loses her top in a ' wardrobe malfunction ' causing her breast to fall out of her dress ( reminiscent of Janet Jackson at the Superbowl ).

[hunkahunka]

http://www.joyceimages.com/images/Maria%20Monk.jpg



IN 1836, a controversial book exploded upon the scene like an artillery shell, written by a woman who had fled the revered Hotel Dieu nunnery in Montreal, Canada. It bore the title, Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk, or, The Hidden Secrets of a Nun’s Life in a Convent Exposed! The book immediately touched off an acrimonious firestorm. The author, “Maria Monk”, disclosed that in the many years that she had been enclosed there in the cloister of the Black Nuns,as the sable-clad Sisters of Charity were called, she had witnessed or been subjected to a number of horrific crimes and abuses.

The nun’s tale

Monk claimed, under the pretext that such godly men could not sin, the clergy and other wealthy men regularly used nuns for sex in a private room reserved for “holy retreats.” On the day that she took her vows, she had intercourse with three priests.

Monk personally witnessed an offspring from such a union being immediately baptized after birth, suffocated, and the body hidden in a pit of lime in the basement, with acid later added to dissolve the tiny corpse. A ledger she found in the Superior’s office listed many more.

Disobedient or recalcitrant nuns were severely disciplined with punishments that ranged from petty annoyances up to Inquisition-like torture. In dark cells in the cellar near the pit, several sisters were imprisoned for unknown sins, apparently for life. Nuns would disappear in the night for no known reason never to be spoken of again; Monk firmly believed some had been murdered. Suicides were also rumored.

Superstition ruled supreme — hair and nail clippings of an elderly nun thought to be holy were prized as relics, for instance. Bizarre penances, such as drinking the Superior’s foot-bath, were often imposed and strange rituals were frequent.

The sisters were expected to constantly spy on each other and inform the Mother Superior of any defects, disobedience, or independence in themselves or others. Yet lying to outsiders was encouraged insofar as it would further the faith — especially if it brought in wealthy new recruits.

the complete book can be read online for free here:
http://www.reformation.org/maria-monk.html

[professor x]

Good post. The media, imo, is just the electronic evolution of religion. It IS religion. A movie theater and a bestseller have replaced church and bible
for so many people, but are these not similar?

Good point. Most people dont realize that what they see on TV is nothing
but intelligence ops taking place right in front of them. It is no different than sitting inside of a church every Sunday. TV is the biggest intelligence operation currently on planet Earth. Soon I will post some info about some of the lies they propogate on TV right in front of people faces.

[cheeb]

Good Stuf ProfessorX,
You Will Have Seen That,
Most Stuff On This Thread,
Is Valid,

But Myself,
I Stopped Posting On Here A While Ago,
Because I Found The Truth To Be...:

Vulgar and Crass by nature.

So Good Luck To You...!!!

If You Really Want Your Eyes Opened:

Look Out For :
True Souldja,
Brown Velvet,
And Of Course Hunkahunkas Posts...!!!

:)

[hunkahunka]

[B]Good Stuf ProfessorX,
You Will Have Seen That,
Most Stuff On This Thread,
Is Valid,

But Myself,
I Stopped Posting On Here A While Ago,



thanks for the notice, I miss your posts, Cheeb.

[soulja]

hunkahunka do you think anyone cares what you posted they don't due to the fact it's transparent spam.

well i for one care very much what hunka posts and it boggles my mind how anyone who has followed this thread could consider it spam.



Are you allowed to post nudity. None of what you write is relevant to anything it's junk and we know that.

it's very relevant to the subject of the thread wich if you had bothered to read entirely is 'mind control', we moved on from focusing only on kurt after page 20 or so.


Bohemian Grove or the wicker man and all these other movies is not even the topic and none of what you said connects to what happened to kurt at all. If you think it's relevant to kurt atleast make another thread for your mystical garbage instead of ruining this one. This is for discussing the events of kurts death. Just one little detail you missed there.

good god.. what utter nonsense :rolleyes:

read professor X's post on masonry, genetics and mind control, he very well encompassed much of the subjects hunka and co wrote about in this thread.

[soulja]

Look Out For :
True Soulja,
Brown Velvet,
And Of Course Hunkahunkas Posts...!!!

:)

hey cheeb are you a poster from the old forum by any chance ?
i'm asking cos i never used that name after it went down ;)

btw, you forgot to mention your good self, guitarbear, moon and the prof, sure he only made a few posts so far but i think everyone fairly acquainted with the subject can tell he knows his stuff.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.mattyluv.com/pictures/fboyz_spitmuffins_eldu.jpg


Fuckboyz, Spitmuffin, El Duce - Albuquerque


the above pic of El Duce, notice the teen girl to his right, with the giant Alice in Wonderlandstyle fork in her hand.
the pic is located on a site dedicated to a dead rocker named Matty Luv from a punk band called:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/dogponcho/fuckboyz.jpg

what a name for a punk band of teenaged males, in the context of what Punk really means. The term 'punk' originated
as jail slang for the younger male inmates who performed sex acts in jail for protection from older males, or in exchange for extra perks like cigarettes, booze or drugs .
(many such males are addicts who are habitually in and out of jail on minor drug possession charges/petty crime,
and often continue the same behavior as male hustlers upon release from jail, straight back to their street life of sex for drugs, and half their clientele are the very type of thugs they've lived with in jail.

(just a little insight into what you might really be looking at when you look at a poster like that, a 'punk' band called the
'F***BOYZ'.)

[hunkahunka]

odd coincidence here, I was just looking at El Duce's confederate hat in that above pic and thinking back to how the confederate Texas Christian University sponsored Obama's father from Kenya to Hawaii, then did another random image search on Fu*kboyz, and found this:

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s176219.jpg

[hunkahunka]

Katy Perry recently hosted the MTV Europe Awards in Liverpool UK ( Nov 6th 2008 ) which saw her adopt 10 different costume changes including a dress with Barack Obama's face on it and a composite costume made up of male dress in black and female dress in white ( don't have a picture sorry ).

MTV are definitely connected to all this , remember the Britney-Madonna kiss ?

Anyway , a few days later Perry loses her top in a ' wardrobe malfunction ' causing her breast to fall out of her dress ( reminiscent of Janet Jackson at the Superbowl ).

MTV is owned by Murray Rothstein (aka Sumner Redstone)
Redstone is Rothstein in English. Rothstein is Redstone in German. Rothstein changed his name to Redstone
to conceal his German Jewish heritage.
Redstone was originally a jewish german who worked for the OSS during
WWII, and the OSS was the forerunner to the CIA . Essentially, Rothstein/Redstone is CIA , and the CIA own MTV, not to mention most of the major media in the United States. Redstone is just a puppet/figurehead for a much larger organization.

[miss_splitfoot]

http://pichostonline.com/u/081102/4e7cb96bce.jpg (http://pichostonline.com/)
early photo of a young (and alluring) Kurt Cobain and Krist Novoselic together, with Kurt perched on big Krist's knee(Cobain was likely 15 or 16 here, and Krist 17 or 18)

this would have been around the time that Cobain and Krist spraypainted
things like 'GOD IS GAY', 'abort christ', and 'homo sex rules' around Aberdeen

video:
Kurt Cobain's Own Private Idaho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrFSmOlXrMg


still obsessed with male homosexuality.

that picture is from 1988, which makes Cobain 21 - not 15 or 16.

[soulja]

MTV is owned by Murray Rothstein (aka Sumner Redstone)
Redstone is Rothstein in English. Rothstein is Redstone in German. Rothstein changed his name to Redstone
to conceal his German Jewish heritage.
Redstone was originally a jewish german who worked for the OSS during
WWII, and the OSS was the forerunner to the CIA . Essentially, Rothstein/Redstone is CIA , and the CIA own MTV, not to mention most of the major media in the United States. Redstone is just a puppet/figurehead for a much larger organization.

excately.. also his name could be a code for his bloodline or at least ties to the Rothschild line. all major lines have unofficial sub lines who do the ''petty'' work for them.

remember what profX said about celebrity marriages being arranged not because of love but genetics/bloodline and rank inside the brotherhood.

i think i already posted about this a while back but it's worth repeating in the given context. Bam Magera married Missy Rothstein.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/Bam_Margera_Missy_Rothstein_777.jpg

the time leading up to the marriage climaxing in the wedding ceremony was made into a reality tv show on MTV. at one point they even had an Wizard of OZ themed party. they also had a play on the ''most dangerous game'' as they chased one of bam's crew dressed up in a wedding dress through the woods with paintball guns. appropriately the guy who got chased was the same dude who keeps doing stupid stunts in order to impress bam. he often ends up injured because of it, broke his leg and stuff like that.

pretty brainless no ? guess wich character he dressed up as at the WoZ party ? the scarecrow, the one without a brain.

btw they were married by a guy called James A. Rota II, who's a member of the band.
http://www.buckleshop.com/images/nc9.jpg

[hunkahunka]

I just finished reading 'Kurt Cobain' , the unflinching biography by Christopher Sandford, and it contained some interesting information that reminded me of 'My Own Private Idaho'. For example:

'A friend name Francis Coughlin remembers Cobain's mother "fussing about the boy almost unnaturally", holding him in a quilted pink blanket and raising eyebrows among the more roughly hewn neighbors.' - page 18

'A resident of Young Street said "You should have seen the way she (his mother) dressed Kurt up for school. He looked like Little Lord Fauntleroy.'
- page 25

The above passages remind me of the footage from 'My Own Private Idaho' of Mike as a baby boy dressed in a pink winter jacket, with his narcoleptic mother passing out and dropping him.

The book also mentions that both Cobain's parents and grandparents lived in trailers when he was a child, which also meshes with 'My Own Private Idaho', where Mike returns home, traveling home from Portland/Seattle to his Dad's trailer in Idaho.

Another fact mentioned is this:

'Three weeks later, after a concert at the Cabaret Metro in Chicago, Cobain attended the opening of 'My Own Private Idaho' (a film he admired) and secured a front-row seat on the basis of being 'the guy from Nirvana'.
- page 213

Interesting too that Cobain's estranged father became a police officer in later years:

'Don Cobain moved to Bellingham, north of Seattle, where in a career change that would have confirmed his son's worst fears, he joined the Washington State Patrol. He communicates sporadically with Love and his granddaughter. Apart from one calculated lapse, Don refuses all offers to speak about his family, believing the press has stigmatized him as the 'big bad guy' in Cobain's life.'
- page 358


and that the Cobains had a family history of shotgun 'suicides'

[miss_splitfoot]

his dad is a TRAFFIC COP. big deal.

[drael]

Why would a shoegazing whiner with a thing for heroin be a threat to the elite agenda?

I mean i love his music, but its not really resistance music is it? Sure its angry at heart, but people never read him that way....and looking at his life, well he wasnt really much of a resister either.

So why is cobain a threat to the agenda?

Wizard of OZ themed party.

So you cant like the wizard of oz without being an SRA victim? Personally i like it, i think it has a great morality about the inner journey. Alice in wonderland is much weirder to me...

[soulja]

Why would a shoegazing whiner with a thing for heroin be a threat to the elite agenda?

I mean i love his music, but its not really resistance music is it? Sure its angry at heart, but people never read him that way....and looking at his life, well he wasnt really much of a resister either.

So why is cobain a threat to the agenda?

don't take it the wrong way man but you think way to simple imo.
almost in black and white terms regarding the whole cobain story.
like they would only kill him if they feel his music to be a threat to their agenda.

i think cobain broke his programing and started to remember things.
i also believe he began to realize how he was used and started to rebel against it. so they killed him and cashed in on it aswell.

if we'd have exact numbers of celebs who died because they started to remember their abuse and didn't function like the programmers wanted them to because of it, it would probably blow our minds. there's some info spread throughout the thread that gives you an idea of the scale of it.



So you cant like the wizard of oz without being an SRA victim? Personally i like it, i think it has a great morality about the inner journey. Alice in wonderland is much weirder to me...

who said you can't like the wizard without being SRA ?

it's all about context drael..

[eternal_spirit]

Can't remember if this has been posted before.
But note that all the women whose names they use/chose are possible mind control victims. I don't know if Manson is mind controlled or a slave handler/programmer. We know he's high up in the Church of Satan and is connected to various other Satanists and dodgy characters.

Brian Warner later changed his name to "Marilyn Manson" (female impersonating Marilyn Monroe and glorifying Charles Manson, who brutally killed 7 people and claimed to have butchered countless others during the infamous Helter Skelter Murders) and formed a band with other transvestite homosexuals, taking the names of serial killers like "Madonna Wayne Gacy", Stephen Bier, Jr. (female impersonating Madonna and glorifying John Wayne Gacy, a homosexual serial killer who raped and murdered over 35 boys, and buried their bodies in a crawl space in his basement); Brian Tutunick "Olivia Newton Bundy," ( female impersonating Olivia Newton-John and glorifying Ted Bundy, the serial killer who claimed to have killed over a hundred young girls across the highways of America);

Jeordie White "Twiggy Rameriez", (female impersonating model Twiggy and glorifying the dreaded Satanic Night Stalker Richard Rameriez who murdered and raped women throughout several months of terror in Los Angeles and San Francisco, California); Kenny Wilson "Ginger Fish" ( female impersonating actress and dancer Ginger Rogers and glorifying Albert Fish, child murderer and cannibal who ate kids after murdering them);


Scott Mitchell Putesky "Daisy Berkowitz" (female impersonating Daisy May of the musical "Lil Abner" and glorifying Son Of Sam serial killer shooter David Berkowitz); Perry Pandrea "Zsa Zsa Speck" (female impersonating Zsa Zsa Gabor and glorifying Richard Speck who murdered 8 nurses hacking them to death with a butcher knife,) Fred Streithorst "Sara Lee Lucas" (named after Henry Lee Lucas who confessed to murdering over 250 people,) and began playing the Homosexual hangouts. Manson began to record CD's , and recorded one called "Antichrist Superstar", in which he says some of the most blasphemous things that can ever be said against Jesus Christ. Below are photos of Manson and his transvestite satanic perverted band.

[eternal_spirit]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/electrokinetic/twigson_1-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/linkinslipark/marilyn_manson_29.jpg

[hunkahunka]

in this interview, Cobain reveals a bit of his strange childhood,
including being a manic depressive at 9 years old, and thinking
that he was a space alien (also mentions how he was groomed to be a
musician from a very early age by his aunt, similar to the Mickey Mouse Club
clique etc.):
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZKr1BVMPi4&feature=related

[drael]

don't take it the wrong way man but you think way to simple imo.

Thank you man :)

almost in black and white terms regarding the whole cobain story.
like they would only kill him if they feel his music to be a threat to their agenda.



I dont think anything about cobain really, or people killing him. I was asking a question out of curiosity...


i think cobain broke his programing and started to remember things.
i also believe he began to realize how he was used and started to rebel against it. so they killed him and cashed in on it aswell.

Thinking is free, each to their own. That answers my question though, why people think he was murdered. Cheers.

who said you can't like the wizard without being SRA ?

it's all about context drael..

Oh its just vague connections to such things are often taken as a final "proof" to adherants of SRA.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.newyorker.com/images/2008/11/24/p233/081124_talkhffmnilllu_p233.jpg

quote

Prince comes out against homosexuality

08, 40,942 views

It's been known for more than five years that Prince is a Jehovah's Witness, as mentioned in this week's New Yorker. Less appreciated: the musician's growing distance from the liberal artistic values that pervade show business, despite his move to Los Angeles seven years ago. As Claire Hoffman writes, Prince has a budding relationship with Christian conservative media mogul Philip Anschutz, of Denver, and seems to be opposed to gay marriage and adoption.
When asked about his perspective on social issues—gay marriage, abortion—Prince tapped his Bible and said, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’ ”

If Prince wants to get attention for his views, airing them amid nationwide demonstrations against the passage of a California anti-gay-marriage initiative will probably do the trick.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/11/24/081124ta_talk_hoffman

Soup With Prince
by Claire Hoffman November 24, 2008

The thirty-thousand-square-foot Italianate villa, built this century by Vanna White’s ex-husband, looks like many of the other houses in Beverly Park, a gated community in L.A., except for the bright-purple carpet that spills down the front steps to announce its new tenant: Prince. One afternoon just before the election, Prince invited a visitor over. Inside, the place was done up in a generic Mediterranean style, although there were personal flourishes here and there—a Lucite grand piano with a gold-colored “Artist Formerly Known as Prince” symbol suspended over it, purple paisley pillows on a couch. Candles scented the air, and New Age music played in the living room, where a TV screen showed images of bearded men playing flutes. Prince padded into the kitchen, a small fifty-year-old man in yoga pants and a big sweater, wearing platform flip-flops over white socks, like a geisha.

“Would you like something to eat?” he asked, sidling up to the counter. Prince’s voice was surprisingly deep, like that of a much larger man. He picked up a copy of “21 Nights,” a glossy volume of photographs that he had just released. It is his first published book, a collection of highly stylized photographs of him taken during a series of gigs in London last year. “I’m really proud of this,” he said. Short original poems and a CD accompany the photographs. (Sample verse: “Who eye really am only time will tell/ 2 the almighty life 4ce that grows stronger with every chorus/ Yes give praise, lest ye b among . . . the guilty ones.”)

Limping slightly, Prince set off on a walk around his new bachelor pad. Glass doors opened onto acres of back yard, and a hot tub bubbled in the sunlight. “I have a lot of parties,” he explained. In the living room, he’d installed purple thrones on either side of a fireplace, and, nearby, along a hallway, he had hung photographs of himself, in a Moroccan villa, in various states of undress. At the end of the hall, a gauzy curtain fluttered in a doorway. “My room,” he said. “It’s private.”

Prince has lived in Los Angeles since last spring, after spending years in Minneapolis, holding court in a complex called Paisley Park, where he made thousands of songs, far away from the big labels. Seven years ago, he became a Jehovah’s Witness. He said that he had moved to L.A. so that he could understand the hearts and minds of the music moguls. “I wanted to be around people, connected to people, for work,” he said. “You know, it’s all about religion. That’s what unites people here. They all have the same religion, so I wanted to sit down with them, to understand the way they see things, how they read Scripture.”

Prince had his change of faith, he said, after a two-year-long debate with a musician friend, Larry Graham. “I don’t see it really as a conversion,” he said. “More, you know, it’s a realization. It’s like Morpheus and Neo in ‘The Matrix.’ ” He attends meetings at a local Kingdom Hall, and, like his fellow-witnesses, he leaves his gated community from time to time to knock on doors and proselytize. “Sometimes people act surprised, but mostly they’re really cool about it,” he said.

Recently, Prince hosted an executive who works for Philip Anschutz, the Christian businessman whose company owns the Staples Center. “We started talking red and blue,” Prince said. “People with money—money like that—are not affected by the stock market, and they’re not freaking out over anything. They’re just watching. So here’s how it is: you’ve got the Republicans, and basically they want to live according to this.” He pointed to a Bible. “But there’s the problem of interpretation, and you’ve got some churches, some people, basically doing things and saying it comes from here, but it doesn’t. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum you’ve got blue, you’ve got the Democrats, and they’re, like, ‘You can do whatever you want.’ Gay marriage, whatever. But neither of them is right.”

When asked about his perspective on social issues—gay marriage, abortion—Prince tapped his Bible and said, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’ ”

Later, in the dining room, eating a bowl of carrot soup, he talked about an encounter that he described as a “teaching moment.” “There was this woman. She used to come to Paisley Park and just sit outside on the swings,” he said. “So I went out there one day and I was, like, ‘Hey, all my friends in there say you’re a stalker. And that I should call the police. But I don’t want to do that, so why don’t you tell me what you want to happen. Why are you here? How do you want this to end?’ And she didn’t really have an answer for that. In the end, all she wanted was to be seen, for me to look at her. And after she was finished, she left and didn’t come back.” ♦

[miss_splitfoot]

[QUOTE=hunkahunka;621862]...(also mentions how he was groomed to be a
musician from a very early age by his aunt, similar to the Mickey Mouse Club
clique etc.):

hardly similar to the MM club clique. there's a difference between being "GROOMED" & being encouraged.
Aunt Mari:
http://www.myspace.com/kurtsaunt (http://www.myspace.com/kurtsaunt)
herself is a musician & has had a basic home recording set up from the time before kurt was born. why wouldn't she want to introduce her nephew to a hobby she herself found pleasurable?
i, myself, was encouraged to play the violin, flute & guitar from the age of six. i was ENCOURAGED, not groomed.

also, when i was a kid i imagined i was from Atlantis, because i had a crush on the Man From Atlantis. to think you're from another place isn't a sign of being mind controlled. it's a sign of an active imagination.

did you enjoy About A Son on More4 last night?

[onourwayto2012]

[QUOTE=hunkahunka;621862]...(also mentions how he was groomed to be a
musician from a very early age by his aunt, similar to the Mickey Mouse Club
clique etc.):

hardly similar to the MM club clique. there's a difference between being "GROOMED" & being encouraged.
Aunt Mari:
http://www.myspace.com/kurtsaunt (http://www.myspace.com/kurtsaunt)
herself is a musician & has had a basic home recording set up from the time before kurt was born. why wouldn't she want to introduce her nephew to a hobby she herself found pleasurable?
i, myself, was encouraged to play the violin, flute & guitar from the age of six. i was ENCOURAGED, not groomed.

also, when i was a kid i imagined i was from Atlantis, because i had a crush on the Man From Atlantis. to think you're from another place isn't a sign of being mind controlled. it's a sign of an active imagination.

did you enjoy About A Son on More4 last night?
You are quite correct split about encouraging.... the difference in KC's case is the sudden huge popularity and subsequent relationships with questionable characters( including his wife!) and then this suspect "suicide". I don't really know diddly about all this but I am pretty certain things are not as they are portrayed to be. More and more it appears these "superstars" are manufactured...including the "rebellious" ones

[sunya]

Interesting from a guy generally considered an icon of bisexuality and laissez-faire values. Elton John has just surprised all the demonstrators by saying he doesn't support gay marriage either, despite having undertaken a 'civil partnership.'

Maybe not controlled, definitely idiots imo.

[miss_splitfoot]

[B]
You are quite correct split about encouraging.... the difference in KC's case is the sudden huge popularity and subsequent relationships with questionable characters( including his wife!) and then this suspect "suicide". I don't really know diddly about all this but I am pretty certain things are not as they are portrayed to be. More and more it appears these "superstars" are manufactured...including the "rebellious" ones

i don't think he committed suicide & am 100% certain he was murdered, but not as part of a CIA conspiracy.

Nirvana's popularity wasn't sudden or "overnight". they spent a few years slogging their guts without recognition. the first album, Bleach (released 1989) was largely ignored, & the success only came with "Smells Like Teen Spirit", from "nevermind" which was released in 1991.

their popularity was helped majorly by the grunge hype during that time, in Britain, by journalist Everett True.

granted, there were many dodgy characters & leeches which entered his life following his success (including courtney love who would use anyone & everyone who she felt could help her achieve the thing she wanted most - fame & wealth).

being a drug addict & musician, these fked up people swarmed around him like flies around poop.

i've been a fan for almost two decades, & although i know this doesn't really give my words any real substance to some, & i'm not saying i'm a know-all, i've read every book, magazine interview, article, warched every documentary, been in contact with people in his life & i really can't see mind control abuse being a factor in kurt cobain's life.

suggested reading (if anyone's interested):
Who Killed Kurt Cobain - ian halperin & max wallace
Love Kills - (authors above)
Beyond Nirvana - the assassination of Kurt Cobain - Hank Harrison

(Everett True's Nirvana: the true story is also a good read, but not concerned with the murder theory)

documentary:
Kurt & Courtney - dir. nick broomfield

[sunya]

BTW hunkahunka can you remind me what your angle is on the sexuality thing? I remember there were a few pages on 'the homosexualising of our youth' or something earlier, though that doesn't seem to justify all the harping on about rentboys. I mean, are you just one of these people who pulls out 'homosexual former drug user' and stuff to somehow impress on people 'bad person'?

This is actually one area where I'm pretty unhappy with the portrayal on the headlines page of this site, all the pictures of Blair/Bush and so on.

Yes, there are a lot of homosexuals and bisexuals in show-business.

Yes, all kinds of sexual practice go on in rituals of various kinds.

Yes, there are a lot of all-male groups in high-up places out of which various rumours come. Many of them went to all-male boarding schools which may have influenced their sexual preferences.

Ok, these are reasons enough to consider it somewhat an intrinsic aspect of the conspiracy, but I don't see how putting up pictures of gay pride marches proves anything. Even if someone does have butterfly wings on.

If there was some evidence of a eugenics/population reduction aspect to it that would be interesting, but I haven't seen any.

(End rant)

[hunkahunka]

'Orgy' scandal shakes French trust


By Caroline Wyatt
BBC Paris correspondent

For the past two months, France has been gripped by a sordid tale of sado-masochistic sex, drugs and murder in the southern city of Toulouse.

Dominique Baudis
Mr Baudis cleared his name by "looking the accuser in the face"
The allegations are that senior city officials not only covered up for a jailed serial killer, Patrice Alegre, but that they even ordered some of his killings to protect themselves from blackmail after they attended his sado-masochistic orgies.

But in the latest twist, one of those officials has cleared his name by confronting his accusers in court.

The whole affair began in 1997, when a special homicide squad started to investigate the unexplained disappearance of 115 women and girls in the Toulouse region dating back to 1992.

As a result of the investigation, serial killer Patrice Alegre was jailed for life in February 2002, on six charges of rape and five murders.


I looked my accuser in the face and she couldn't return my gaze
Dominique Baudis

But this summer - from his prison cell - he began to respond to new allegations made by two former Toulouse prostitutes, known as Fanny and Patricia, in the ongoing investigations into other unsolved murders.

On French TV, Patricia's voice and appearance were heavily disguised as she repeated her testimony to police.

She claimed that magistrates and senior politicians in Toulouse had attended sado-masochistic orgies partly organised by Alegre in a council-owned chateau.

Patricia also alleged that she and Fanny had witnessed Patrice Alegre kill another two prostitutes.

He in turn, in a letter to a French TV programme, confessed to the killings but claimed they were ordered by town officials to cover up their attendance at the orgies.

Even more bizarrely, Patricia and Alegre implied that the French head of broadcasting standards and anti-pornography campaigner, Dominique Baudis, was involved in their sex ring while mayor of Toulouse.

Look in the face

It is a claim he has vigorously denied all along, saying that the pornography industry was trying to take its revenge by blackening his name.

So Mr Baudis demanded to go to court to confront Patricia face to face before a judge, and see if she could repeat the allegations while looking him in the eye.

Patrice Alegre
Alegre worked in a police canteen
She could not, and he emerged from court with his name cleared.

"The accusations made against me are nothing but lies," he told the media as he emerged from court. "I looked my accuser in the face and she couldn't return my gaze. My accuser came escorted by two gendarmes, and she is leaving with two gendarmes. I came here as a free man, and I am leaving as a free man."

Patricia may now go on trial for perjury for the allegations against Mr Baudis, who swore to continue the fight against those who had wrongly accused him.

He also blamed the local Toulouse newspaper, La Depeche du Midi, for stirring up trouble.

Yet the newspaper defends its revelations against other top Toulouse officials.


He was a good mayor and a he's a good man. He never did those things he was accused of, the sexual things - not in Toulouse
Student in Toulouse
One judge was removed from the case, while it emerged that another had gone drinking with the serial killer, who is the son of a local policeman and used to work in the police canteen.

The Toulouse police have also been accused of a cover-up.

They classified some of the serial killer's murders of local prostitutes as suicide, despite compelling evidence to the contrary.

La Depeche du Midi's editor Jean-Christof Giesbert says the town's authorities have hardly covered themselves in glory.

"We want to know why it seems that the investigation has stopped or got no further. There are still many people to be questioned by the judges, but that isn't happening - why not? We get the impression the authorities are keen to let it drop."

Split public

In the cafes of Toulouse, the scandal has split public opinion.

One young student is convinced that Dominique Baudis was the victim of a conspiracy against him.

"He was a good mayor and a he's a good man. He never did those things he was accused of, the sexual things - not in Toulouse."

But others believe that the local authorities did fail in the Alegre case, catching him too late, and they do suspect that there may have been strange goings-on at council properties, which still have not been properly explained.


We get the impression the authorities are keen to let it drop
Jean-Christof Giesbert
Editor, La Depeche du Midi
"I think most people here are disgusted by the system, and many of us believe we may never know the full truth of what happened at all," says one young woman from Toulouse.

For most of France, the story has been little more than titillation over morning coffee. But for the people of Toulouse, the revelations have shaken their faith in their politicians, police and the justice system.

Whatever revelations are still to come, that damage will take a long time to repair.

Sex, sadism and slaughter

Shanghai Star. 2003-06-19

WILD, drug-fuelled sex parties involv-ing senior public figures, murdered prostitutes and a police cover-up - France's latest political scandal sounds impossibly far-fetched.

Yet the southern city of Toulouse is in shock over allegations that high-ranking local officials were part of a seedy sadomasochism ring and asked a serial killer to get rid of a transvestite who risked unmasking them.

Two former prostitutes, in extensive testimony to police earlier this year, also alleged that apparent incompetence, as police repeatedly let murderer Patrice Alegre slip through their net, was in fact a cover-up ordered by powerful officials.

Alegre, since jailed for life, then sensationally confessed in a letter written in prison to TV channel Canal Plus to two new murders - those of prostitute Line Galbardi and cross-dresser Claude Martinez.

The French media are drawing parallels with Belgium's Dutroux case, where bungling by police investigating the notorious paedophile and murderer provoked public outrage.

With a former mayor of Toulouse and three judges among those named, even the government is anxious. Spokesman Jean-Francois Cope told ministers recently: "This is an important case which has caught everybody's attention".

Yet the officials named have vigorously denied the charges, and a third former prostitute and ex-lover of Alegre has come forward to say the other two are stretching the truth.

The result is, no one is sure who to believe.

"He's a manipulator," serial killer expert Stephane Bourgoin told weekly Le Point magazine of Alegre. "We have to start from the premise that he will always be a liar, though he will not only lie. His truths are cloaked in lies. He likes to play."

Orgies filmed

Jailed for life last year for raping and brutally murdering five women, 34-year-old Alegre remained silent throughout his trial during which prosecutors described him as "an abominable monster" who had displayed "barbaric cruelty".

Although he confessed to those murders, Alegre said nothing to shed any light on his motives. Even a moving appeal from his 12-year-old daughter couldn't prompt him to explain himself.

Lifting the lid on a den of sleaze, the ex-prostitutes, known as Fanny and Patricia, said former mayor Dominique Baudis, now head of the CSA national broadcast watchdog, took part in sadomasochistic orgies with girls and drugs supplied by Alegre.

Questioned in April by Toulouse police investigating scores of unsolved disappearances, the pair said they overheard Baudis tell Alegre he did not like Martinez filming the sessions and that he should be got rid of.

As soon as he got wind of the allegations, Baudis, Toulouse mayor from 1983 to 2001, called them "an outrageous frame-up".

"I had absolutely no relationship, close or distant, with either Alegre, the world of pimping or the organisers of these barbaric parties," Baudis said in a statement on May 18.

He has taken the unusual step of asking to be formally investigated, to clear his name. He has said he suspects porn merchants are seeking revenge because of his clampdown on pornography on television.

"If you believe these former prostitutes, I was organising sadomasochistic parties involving raping minors, barbaric acts, cocaine dealing...and the murder of a transvestite," he told TF1 television. "These accusations are staggering."

Police critised

Toulouse public prosecutor Jean Volff, deputy prosecutor Jean-Jacques Ignacio and judge Marc Bourrague were also named as being involved in the orgies. Volff called the story "totally implausible" but resigned anyway.

The rumpus has prompted Alegre to break his long silence.

In his handwritten letter to the host of a Canal Plus current affairs programme, Alegre said the two ex-prostitutes were telling the truth about the parties and ordered killings.

"Mr Baudis, Mr Bourrague and other members of the Toulouse elite were at these parties. Everyone would take cocaine, trying to outdo each other. Some parties went off the rails," he wrote.

Alegre said he killed Galbardi because she witnessed him kill another prostitute. He named a policeman who he said suggested killing Galbardi and promised there would be no inquiry.

Toulouse police have been criticised since Alegre's first victim, 21-year-old Valerie Tariote, was found dead in her flat in 1989 with a scarf stuffed down her throat.

As the murders totted up, detectives repeatedly overlooked Alegre or classified his grisly murders as suicides.

Eight years later Alegre was turned in by a student who persuaded him to stop as he tried to strangle her.

Alegre says he didn't tell the full story earlier out of fear for his family's safety - but experts are sceptical.

"This criminal is a sexual sadist who takes pleasure from killing and beating," said criminologist Bourgoin. "He gets a kick from the notion of power. If he's starting to speak out today, it's an attempt to regain the upper hand."

(Agencies via Xinhua)

[emerald]

Check this out: http://judicial-inc.org/

[sunya]

Check this out: http://judicial-inc.org/

lol

'The rules are simple: - No swearing, and we prefer you use the words Bolshevik, Communist, Neo-Con, Zionist, etc, but avoid saying Jew.'

Stern but fair.

[hunkahunka]

Corruption Of Your Thoughts, Destruction Of Your Soul

song Mind Control: Stephan Marley


video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhEuGIf3Lww

[faulconandsnowjob]

Likewise, the white Grunge movement spearheaded by Nirvana was backed by the CIA because 'they wanted to divide youngsters on racial lines, if black and white kids linked up, they'd pose a serious threat to the system. The whole point of Grunge is to instill in teenagers a sense of hopelessness, to fill them with self-hate and prevent them from changing the world.'

Some of us have been suggesting on the Paul is Dead threads that something similar to that was going on w/ the Beatles, but it was more to do w/ dividing people along generational lines rather than racial. And rock n' roll was used to possibly promote drugs (LSD) as a potential mind control experiment. Maybe this has already been discussed on this thread. There's a lot to catch up on here, but a good thread, it seems.

[hunkahunka]

N-Word Hurled at Blacks During Westwood Prop 8 Protest

Gay Activists Aim Racial Slurs at blacks -
Blacks voted 70% against gay marriage , according to exit polls

SACRAMENTO, California, November 12, 2008

– Amid the rampant homosexual protests in California, following the victory of Proposition 8, reports are pouring into homosexual blogs of same-sex "marriage" supporters directing their bile against the African-American community, aiming racist and threatening remarks even against blacks who are themselves homosexual.

Exit polls showed that African-Americans supported Proposition 8, the true marriage ballot measure, 70% to 30%.

One reader of Rod 2.0, a leading gay blog by an African-American, reported that when he joined the large homosexual protest outside Westwood's Mormon Temple, protesters called him a "nigger" at least twice.

"It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks," wrote the commenter.

"YOU NIGGER, one man shouted at men (sic). If your people want to call me a FAGGOT, I will call you a nigger. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple ... me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the niggers better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them."

Another African-American reader from Los Angeles reports that he and his boyfriend, also black, were harassed about their race despite their prominently carrying "No on 8" signs.

"Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, 'Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!'" he relates.

When the man pointed out the sign he carried, "One of the older men said it didn't matter because 'most black people hated gays' and he was 'wrong' to think we had compassion,'" he says. "I guess he never thought we were gay."

Jasmyne Cannick, another popular African-American homosexual blogger, said last week that within three days of Proposition 8's victory she received several calls from homosexual and straight blacks who described being called “niggers” and "being accosted in their cars and told that it was because of 'you people gays don’t have equal rights and you better watch your back.'"

Homosexualist leaders have called upon their constituents to cease the racist attacks.

Kathryn Kolbert, President of the liberal People For the American Way Foundation, said that homosexuals should not blame blacks, saying that "responding to that hurt by lashing out at African Americans is deeply wrong and offensive — not to mention destructive to the goal of advancing equality."

Instead, she suggested that the cultural influence of religion is more to blame. She claims that religious leaders swayed the black community against same-sex "marriage," and convinced them to break away from the "civil rights" banner now hoisted by homosexuals.

In response, Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., told LifeSiteNews.com that "it is absolutely no secret that African Americans support the sanctity of life and marriage," adding that this fact is "something that America needs to know."

Blacks support the true definition of marriage rather than "equal rights" for homosexual unions, King said, because homosexual "marriage" is not a legitimate civil rights issue - contrary to some who say blacks have hypocritically abandoned the fight for equal protection under law.

"Certainly and obviously procreative marriage - between one man and woman - is God's best plan for raising children," said King. "We as African Americans cannot possibly be missing the boat by understanding that the sanctity of marriage is the best way to be sure that the human race thrives."

Anti-marriage protesters have also attracted media attention for targeting individual supporters of Proposition 8.

Scott Eckern of the California Musical Theatre, a true marriage supporter, resigned from his position as artistic director when homosexual "marriage" advocates began attacking Eckern and boycotting the theater. Eckhern had privately donated $1000 to the "Yes on 8" campaign.

Blogger Clyde Fitch launched one of many invectives against Eckern, calling him "an enemy of all that is good in America.

"You deserve not only to be fired, you should be viciously attacked using words and nothing but words by the men and women of the American theatre. And then you should go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under. Slime."

Upon his resignation, Eckern apologized for the "hurt feelings" his actions caused, but did not apologize for his commitment to true marriage.

The Bee also reports that Scott Purves, of Purves & Associates, a Davis insurance company, described someone picketing his business earlier this week with a sign reading, "Purves Family Supports Homophobia."

"If this had gone the other way, I can't imagine the backlash if people protested and called the other side names," said Purves. "People would be angry."

[sade]

Likewise, the white Grunge movement spearheaded by Nirvana was backed by the CIA because 'they wanted to divide youngsters on racial lines, if black and white kids linked up, they'd pose a serious threat to the system. The whole point of Grunge is to instill in teenagers a sense of hopelessness, to fill them with self-hate and prevent them from changing the world.'
Who said this? Because this is complete bullshit.

Grunge bands were modern Punk-bands.*
The negative side of knowing about the ptb and so on, is that most people then start to see everything negatively.
Everything has a DARK, deeper, meaning to it.
Everything is symbols, everything is bad and there seems to be nothing good.
Thankfully this is not true. Good things get through too and in to the media.
The grunge-movement was not to divide, but to unite.
And if the movement was about something, it was about exposing and going against the goverment.
(Im against the goverment/illuminati/ptb and etc, and I am not backed by the CIA, for fucks sake.)

Also, why the hell would Pearl Jam otherwise sing in one of their songs;
"Young souls unite, we've got ourselves tonight?" Or:
Big guy, big eye watching me.
Have to wonder what it sees. sin.
Progress laced with ramifications.
Freedom's big plunge.

Pull the innocent from a crowd.
Raise those sticks them bring them down.
If they fail to obey.

And Soundgarden writing on another song;
Hands all over the western culture
Ruffling feathers and turning eagles
Into vultures

Yeah, backed by the CIA. For sure.
"It's all part of the plan, maaaan!"

(Btw, Im not denying that some artists and etc wouldn't be controlled,
because a lot are, but just because some are doesn't mean they all are.)

[faulconandsnowjob]

^ That quote was posted as the first thing on this thread.

(Btw, Im not denying that some artists and etc wouldn't be controlled, because a lot are, but just because some are doesn't mean they all are.)

Oh, w/o a doubt. It may be that TPTB attempt to control artists & celebrities to promote an agenda. If Kurt Cobain committed suicide, it could very well have been a way to escape that control. My own personal feeling is that particularly troublesome artists are dealt w/ accordingly. And as incredible as it sounds, I believe some are replaced w/ permanent doubles who are more amenable to TPTB's control.

Anyway, I do believe some good things come thru. I personally really like The Clash, but Joe Strummer's father was a diplomat. It just makes me wonder if some good things are allowed thru to "camouflage" the other, not-so-good things. I guess kind of like disinformation - lies hidden amongst the truth.

[hunkahunka]

I personally really like The Clash, but Joe Strummer's father was a diplomat. It just makes me wonder if some good things are allowed thru to "camouflage" the other, not-so-good things. I guess kind of like disinformation - lies hidden amongst the truth.

interesting that the father of Stewart Copeland, drummer for The Police,
was a CIA officer, and Copeland's mother was in British intelligence.
Copeland's brother Miles owned a record label and got them their first
big record deal with A& M records. Copeland speaks Arabic fluently,
and also signed REM (Michael Stipe) to his label .

Kind of makes you think again of the line 'Every move you make, every step you take, I'll be watching you' and 'the Secret Policeman's Other Ball' etc.

[faulconandsnowjob]

Interesting that the father of Stewart Copeland, drummer for The Police, was a CIA officer, and Copeland's mother was in British intelligence. Copeland's brother Miles owned a record label and got them their first big record deal with A& M records. Copeland speaks Arabic fluently, and also signed REM (Michael Stipe) to his label .

Kind of makes you think again of the line 'Every move you make, every step you take, I'll be watching you' and 'the Secret Policeman's Other Ball' etc.

The Police have been a topic of convo at this thread:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30205&page=78

"Every Move You Make" was mentioned - totally Big Brother. I also think "Wrapped around your finger" could be significant. Is it a reference to mind control handlers? I'm going to post what you said about Stewart Copeland on that other thread. Thanks for the info!

[hunkahunka]

video:

Allen Ginsberg tells the story of how LSD was introduced to the US and what the discoverer of LSD Albert Hoffman said to him about CIAs involvement and Mk-Ultra. Ginsberg mentions that instead of slipping this war drug to people secretly, he helped to open it up (democratize it) and give it openly to people. Was the peace movement another war experiment, strategy or war game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyiOGUMut4

[soulja]

Oh its just vague connections to such things are often taken as a final "proof" to adherants of SRA.

adherents of SRA ? sounds like we're still debating whether there is such a thing. we can debate the scale of it but surely not it's existence ?!

and no, ''vague'' connections are certainly not taken as final proof.
clues, indicators, signs, call it what you want are obviously picked up depending on your understanding of the subject.

study springmeiers work then watch Mageras series on MTV and tell me he's just some random dude who made it big.

[howie]

If you think the lyrics to Every Breath You Take are creepy, wait till you hear the b-side!

Murder by Numbers

Written by sting & andy summers

Once that youve decided on a killing
First you make a stone of your heart
And if you find that your hands are still willing
Then you can turn a murder into art

There really isnt any need for bloodshed
You just do it with a little more finesse
If you can slip a tablet into someones coffee
Then it avoids an awful lot of mess

Its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc

Now if you have a taste for this experience
And youre flushed with your very first success
Then you must try a twosome or a threesome
And youll find your conscience bothers you much less

Because murder is like anything you take to
Its a habit-forming need for more and more
You can bump off every member of your family
And anybody else you find a bore

Because its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc

Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In historys great dark hall of fame
All our greatest killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name

But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you dont need to lift a finger of your hand

Because its murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your abc
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
Its as easy to learn as your a, b, c, d, e

[faulconandsnowjob]

Ginsberg mentions that instead of slipping this war drug to people secretly, he helped to open it up (democratize it) and give it openly to people.

I was thinking that certain either controlled celebrities/popular figures or actual agents who were made celebrities would give drugs to artists who were not controlled. I guess maybe it was like a Trojan horse - destroy the movement from the inside.

[miss_splitfoot]

Who said this? Because this is complete bullshit.

etc


great post, sade.

[drael]

adherents of SRA ? sounds like we're still debating whether there is such a thing. we can debate the scale of it but surely not it's existence ?!

Yes there are people in the world, who having been informed about SRA, dont beleive in it.:rolleyes: Im one of them. The techniques, the "science" of it are IMO unworkable. The mere fact that simple brainwashing is much easier (chems-pain-repitition), yet doesnt deliver these "recovered mind control victims" (ie is more effective) shud be a big clue. Also a big tip off shud be the fantastic story elements that sell it psychologically...in that sense its a big like christianity being sold on fantastical negativity.

regardless, theres no proof and its quite debatable. (Not that i wish to debate it with beleivers)

and no, ''vague'' connections are certainly not taken as final proof.
clues, indicators, signs, call it what you want are obviously picked up depending on your understanding of the subject.


Well thats good. Because if you already beleive something, everything looks like proof unless ur critical about it.

study springmeiers work then watch Mageras series on MTV and tell me he's just some random dude who made it big.

Im not sure if i know that person or not. Is he one of the sra writers? I dont get mtv either. If this is about culture control, yes i beleive in that. Theres some evidence for that, its not strong, but culture control would happen even unconciously in such a controlled society. Its likely more than that though IMO, not every peice of media, but some general themes. (Such as aliens are bad, or money is good).

What really can be known for sure after all? Rich people tend to want to stay that way. Subliminals (some of them) can be verified. UFO disclosure has a fair bit of evidence behind it. History is clearly wrong the way its presented. Some symbolism is blatent such as US dollar bill, masonry, govt buildings.

[sunya]

Just coz it's good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHNZVrxEts

[sunya]

Yes there are people in the world, who having been informed about SRA, dont beleive in it.:rolleyes: Im one of them. The techniques, the "science" of it are IMO unworkable. The mere fact that simple brainwashing is much easier (chems-pain-repitition), yet doesnt deliver these "recovered mind control victims" (ie is more effective) shud be a big clue. Also a big tip off shud be the fantastic story elements that sell it psychologically...in that sense its a big like christianity being sold on fantastical negativity.

regardless, theres no proof and its quite debatable. (Not that i wish to debate it with beleivers)



Well thats good. Because if you already beleive something, everything looks like proof unless ur critical about it.



Im not sure if i know that person or not. Is he one of the sra writers? I dont get mtv either. If this is about culture control, yes i beleive in that. Theres some evidence for that, its not strong, but culture control would happen even unconciously in such a controlled society. Its likely more than that though IMO, not every peice of media, but some general themes. (Such as aliens are bad, or money is good).

What really can be known for sure after all? Rich people tend to want to stay that way. Subliminals (some of them) can be verified. UFO disclosure has a fair bit of evidence behind it. History is clearly wrong the way its presented. Some symbolism is blatent such as US dollar bill, masonry, govt buildings.

Springmeier is the Mac Daddy of writers on this subject. A lot of people on this forum are huge fans. He may well be putting some good information out there, I don't know, I only know the extracts that have been posted in various places. However as I mentioned earlier in the thread these articles (linked from illuminati-news) say some pretty damning things about him:

http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm
http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm

There's clearly a hell of a lot child abuse going though, I just don't know how much of it is deliberate programming.

[drael]

I yeah i read him, thats exactly the techniques/info i was criticizing above.

Im not big on christianity either FYI, i think it misinterprets jesus's word and the bible. I especially dont beleive in satan, people who worship a big guy with horns or any of that misinformation about true practice of black magick or the elite cabal. (On which im prolly more versed than most as someone who has researched occult materials most of my life)

Fritz is a good case in point. His occult/spiritual information including symbolism etc is _way_ off - because hes trying to make it fit his christian veiwpoint. Its not rocket science...

Occult material doesnt add up with any other source +
Mind control techniques and related information dont add up with any other source +
Mind control is actually relatively easy, as proved by the nazi's in ww2 +
Christian nutter =

Bunk!

Unfortunately most people dont have much background in either mind, or occult, so the flaws dont pop out. Of course "being sold a christian boogie man tale" shud always ring alarms IMO. A few googles can fix that knowledge gap. Firstly start with trance. Get a good grasp of that. Then look into hypnosis, brainwashing, covert hypnosis, cult techniques and subliminal cueing. Then check out nazi brainwashing specifically. You soon see, mind control is way easier than made out, doesnt require puppets, actors, props or scripts. What fritz mostly talks about, instead, is weak cult techniques, similar to christian scientist "run-downs". Somewhat effective, but pale next to the nazi method. And trance is something u can check out urself, u can see it in the real world...theres LOTS of information on it..

Then...google some of the symbology/occult stuff mentioned by fritz. Again, no match.

Only reason why anyone buys it IMO, is its an emotionally driven narrative/story.

How to create a complete mindcontrol slave? 1) Cattleprod + tub of water 2) Cassette player giving repeated instructions 3) Cocktail of drugs.

Done. Split personality, which prior to fritz had reputedly only been acheived in mk-ultra to limited degree with much much work, is only useful in "double agent" situations. Good for espionage, but useless for a musician. When is a musician going to be interrogated with pain etc? Regular mind control can fully inform normal questioning....The split is only useful for ultra high level deception.

Still not sure about that either though TBH (the mk-ultra thing), MPD is very poorly understood all round. Again, the story sounds too "catchy" mentally not to be a little suss.

Anyway who cares what some drugged up celebrity says? Ohh, ive been mindcontrolled. Okay wheres that asylum? Just take this pill.

[sunya]

I'm keeping an open mind on the mind-controlled slaves thing but I think it's worth looking into, if only because it helps us notice all the symbology that's everywhere, performing low-level mind-control on the lot of us.

I see it as a Chaos Theory sort of thing, where it only takes a few critical pushes from above to set off the whole domino rally. Then everyone's zealously running around propagating memes and fashions in the course of 'just doing their jobs.'

Their could be more direct forms of control of course. Remember the guy David claimed to have met who had a patch attached to his chest...

[hunkahunka]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm

The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations was set up in London in 1921 to study the "breaking point" of humans. Kurt Lewin, a German psychologist, became the director of the Tavistock Institute in 1932, about the same time Nazi Germany was increasing its research into neuropsychology, parapsychology and multi-generational occultism. Interestingly, a progressive exchange of scientific ideas was taking place between England and Germany, most notably in the field of eugenics: the movement devoted to "improving" the human species through the control of hereditary factors in mating. The nefariously enigmatic union between the two countries was bonded, partly through the Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society which consisted of many high ranking officials in the Nazi party and British aristocracy.

http://www.crystalinks.com/crowley5.gif

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

http://www.astroamerica.com/tarot/t-oz.jpg
The Tarot of Oz deck

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm
The Mystery Religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, India and Babylon helped lay the foundation for occultism, meaning "hidden knowledge." One of the earliest writings giving reference to occultism is the Egyptian Book of the Dead, a compilation of rituals explicitly describing methods of torture and intimidation (to create trauma), the use of potions (drugs) and the casting of spells (hypnotism), ultimately resulting in the total enslavement of the initiate.[1] These have been the main ingredients for a part of occultism known as Satanism, throughout the ages.


http://www.cafes.net/ditch/gd2vol.jpg

[hunkahunka]

Fascinating blog on the Indian Lake project, a remnant of an mkultra facility
found in the woods around Indian Lake, New York.

A metal box was found buried nearby containing photos of children and film of
children in cages.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/619/1673/200/31.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/619/1673/400/sally.jpg



On July 9, 1997 my uncle was hiking in a wooded area around Indian Lake, New York. He tripped on what he thought was a tree root sticking slightly above ground. When he looked back he noticed the corner of this box above ground. The fact that he was far from any marked path or road, and was in an area that few if any usually hike, sparked his curiosity. The box was sticking up by only 2 or 3 inches, and from the look of the ground around the box, he figured it had been there quite a while. With only sticks to dig with, it took him a while to pry it from the ground. The 3 shapes on the top of the box (an upside down triangle and two circles), were only apparent after it was later cleaned up. The box had no lock on it and was easily opened. Inside the box my uncle found 21 water-damaged photos, 3 8mm home movie reels, and various documents. Most of the photos are of children which led my uncle to fear the worst... that he had stumbled upon evidence of a crime involving children. He mentioned that his blood ran cold when the began reading the documents also found in the box. He indeed had stumbled upon a crime involving children, but instead of some child molester, it seemed that these children were all part of some United States Government experimentation. Those experiments where known as the I.L.P or the Indian Lake Project.
In 2002, my uncle died. This box was given to me shortly before he passed away. He was afraid of the contents in the box, and wished he had never found it. I feel it is my obligation to share it's contents, and the truth behind what had been burried for 50 years.






more information:

http://indianlakeproject.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_archive.html

[onourwayto2012]

Best head on over to the blog in the above post. The gentleman says he will no longer post because "they" have begun the harassment. That adds yet another dimension to this creepy story.

[closedmind]

actually i think the earlier documentary called kurt and courtney did a good job and showed that courtney most likely had him suicided. but thats not to say that courtney wasnt down with the cia in some fashion.

i remeber a news articel saying that one of the possible motives for kurts "suicide" was that he had frequent stomach pains that plagued him. its just a thought but maybe this was a symptom of being programmed. stomache pain is a common tactic used with mk-ultra style programmed individuals. they can induce the pain psychosomatically.

also courtney does not make it a secret hats shes down with satan. mkultra was born from satanic ancient "spells" and as ex-illuminati defector svali has said, it is very much a religious thing. spirirts are involved.

[faulconandsnowjob]

stomache pain is a common tactic used with mk-ultra style programmed individuals. they can induce the pain psychosomatically.

Do you have more info on that?

[hunkahunka]

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/619/1673/400/sally.jpg

the blog speculates that this little girl was placed in the facility at the age of 5



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Sally_Field_at_Expo_67_waving.jpg


Sally Field was born in November , 1946.


The Indian Lake facility is estimated to have been in operation approx. 1952-1955. In 1952, Sally Field would have been 5 years old.

Her mother was Margaret Field , who starred in this film:

http://www.erichscholz.com/uploaded_images/posterX-755957.jpg

Her father was U.S. Army captain RICHARD DRYDEN FIELD

Sally Field's parents divorced when she was four years old

Margaret Field retained custody of Sally, and married a man who was a stunt man and ex-marine .

Sally Field starred as 'Sybil' in 1976

[graflok]

^ Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

That Indian Lake blog site has the only photos I've
ever seen showing the cages.

[miss_splitfoot]

i remeber a news articel saying that one of the possible motives for kurts "suicide" was that he had frequent stomach pains that plagued him. its just a thought but maybe this was a symptom of being programmed. stomache pain is a common tactic used with mk-ultra style programmed individuals. they can induce the pain psychosomatically.

also courtney does not make it a secret hats shes down with satan.


a) the stomach pain was found to be the result of a trapped nerve in his spine. he was born with scoliosis.

b) evidence please that courtney is "down with satan"? she is a practicing buddhist.


also, the Indian Lake Project is FICTION.
the photographs were manipulated. read the post bye Russian5 here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread318660/pg2).
more reasons why the India Lake Project is a hoax at that site too.
ILP Viral marketing? (http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=8950&sid=ad7c7f783067054e494430cb24532fea?)

[emerald]

a) the stomach pain was found to be the result of a trapped nerve in his spine. he was born with scoliosis.

b) evidence please that courtney is "down with satan"? she is a practicing buddhist.


also, the Indian Lake Project is FICTION.
the photographs were manipulated. read the post bye Russian5 here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread318660/pg2).
more reasons why the India Lake Project is a hoax at that site too.
ILP Viral marketing? (http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=8950&sid=ad7c7f783067054e494430cb24532fea?)

U're simply hilarious, all I had to say...

[graflok]

i remeber a news articel saying that one of the possible motives for kurts "suicide" was that he had frequent stomach pains that plagued him. its just a thought but maybe this was a symptom of being programmed. stomache pain is a common tactic used with mk-ultra style programmed individuals. they can induce the pain psychosomatically.


Interesting.

I had a close friend growing up who went on to join
a famous rock band. He later "conveniently" died
when he was no longer "useful."

My research in recent years into the MKULTRA/Monarch
scene has led me to realize that my friend was likely
a victim of that scene all along. He dropped many hints
but I had no clue at the time and didn't connect the dots
until recently.

Anyway, he had chronic intense stomach pains that plagued
him throughout his life.

[miss_splitfoot]

U're simply hilarious, all I had to say...

happy to hear that real facts give you a giggle, dear.

[faulconandsnowjob]

I had a close friend growing up who went on to join
a famous rock band. He later "conveniently" died
when he was no longer "useful."

My research in recent years into the MKULTRA/Monarch
scene has led me to realize that my friend was likely
a victim of that scene all along. He dropped many hints
but I had no clue at the time and didn't connect the dots
until recently.

Anyway, he had chronic intense stomach pains that plagued
him throughout his life.

Graflok, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. That is really tragic :( I don't suppose you'd want to elaborate more on what happened? How was he being used? What kind of hints did he drop? Do you have any good info on MKULTRA you could post? (pls also post to the PID thread :))

[sade]

Those pictures of children are indeed manipulated.
The effects used in the pics are basicly blur and brushes on top with overlay.
As I've used photoshop for years now, the pictures look like the job of a beginner.

The fact though that this project is false, doesn't mean something like this hasn't happened or isn't happening.

[magnus]

Thanks for a veeeery interesting thread......It's an eye opener.....In hello magasin : Beyonce's new album is called " I Am.....Sasha Fierce....". named after her alter ego. Sasha- the crazy, sexy character Beyonce inhabits on stage and in videos....and the Nirvana baby on the cover of Nevermind is Spencer Elden. he was 3 months old when his parents accepted 2oo for him to pose on the cover....Now, at 17, he is an Los Angeles high school student....he has re-created the pose-donning swim trunks this time- at Rose Bowl Aquatic Center in Pasadene, Calif......" It's creepy that so many people have seen me naked" he says " I feel like I'm the world's biggest porn star".....:)

Hilde

[graflok]

Graflok, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. That is really tragic :( I don't suppose you'd want to elaborate more on what happened? How was he being used? What kind of hints did he drop? Do you have any good info on MKULTRA you could post? (pls also post to the PID thread :))

There were many little hints and oddities. There seemed to be no end to the
surprising things I would learn about him by accident. He was like the tip
of an iceberg. However, I would rather not go into too much detail for
privacy reasons.

I will say that he had chronic health problems from a very young age
(mostly intestinal stuff). He rarely talked about this so I don't
know specifics except it was painful for him. I know he also had many
scars in his abdominal area that he mostly kept hidden.

Out of the blue he once mentioned a recent time he woke up in the woods alone
and didn't know where he was and was wandering around the woods in such intense
abdominal pain he could barely stay in his body. He was laughing as he
described this (?). I asked, WTF he was talking about and he quickly dropped
it. I later found out this is a common Monarch programming method (tortured,
knocked out, left in the middle of nowhere).

Odd comments like this were not unusual from him. Once I was talking about
my family's religion and I realized I didn't know what religion his family was so
I asked him. He mentioned "Moriah" and then quickly changed the subject. I
didn't know what that was at the time. Much later I found out that Moriah is
one of the names that the illuminati cult uses for themselves.

BTW, he was also a brilliant musician, even when he was a kid. Way, way beyond
the average. I was a musician then too and no musician I knew had anywhere
near his ability. He was a local legend even in his teens.

For more info on the MKULTRA/Monarch probramming scene I recommend Fritz Springmeier's
stuff for details. Also David McGowan's stuff since he's done a lot of research on rock
musicians. But, be advised --- some of this material is disturbing.

[hunkahunka]

The QUATOR CORONATI.


Founded in 1884 by Satanist William Wynn Westcott

and S.L. Macgregor Mathers and with assistance

by the then Prince of Wales the QuATOR CORONATI

is the SUPREME MASONIC RESEARCH LODGE.


What does it research. Why it researches

Freemasonry itself. And it has created its own

encyclopedia of Freemasonry which is called the

ARS QUATOR CORONATUM. And is twice as big as

the old Encyclopedia Britannica.


The QUATOR CORONATI'S greatest contributions to

mankind have been such societies as the HERMETIC

ORDER of the GOLDEN DAWN. ORDO TEMPLI ORIENTIS.

And the THULE SOCIETY. Amongst others. Including

the PROCESS CHURCH for the FINAL JUDGEMENT.



There are only 40 primary members at any particular

time. They are referred to as the MEMBERS of 40.

But there are thousands of others who contribute.

They are called the MEMBERS of CORRESPONDENCE.


The SCOTTISH RITE SOUTHERN JURISIDICTION publishes

a monthly newsletter for QUATOR CORONATI. However

it is for members only.



A recent Johnny Depp film entitled " FROM HELL "

featured the QUATOR CORONATI in all its splendor.


The Quatuor Coronati Lodge, (The Four Crowns Lodge)

- Founded as a special research lodge by the Grand Master of UGLE, the Prince of Wales, later King Edward VII, in 1884. The QC Lodge was then officially chartered in 1886.

- The inaugurating speech was entitled "Freemasonry as Seen in the Light of the Cabala."

- The lodge was to focus on Palestine, the Cabala, establishing a Jewish homeland, and rebuilding Solomon's Temple.

- Sir Charles Warren was the first grand master of the QC Lodge. He was also the president of the Palestine Exploration Fund, and two decades earlier had been the chief engineer for British excavations of the Temple Mount.

- Sir Walter Besant was a founding member of QC and was the treasurer of the Palestine Exploration Fund under Warren. Besant was the brother-in-law of Annie Besant, the president of the Theosophical Society after Helena Blavatsky.

- The PEF was founded in 1865 with money from the British Crown, UGLE, the Rothschilds Vatican illuminati and the Church of England. The event commemorating it's founding was chaired by the Archbishop of York who proclaimed that the Holy Land was, by divine right, English Property or even more accurately Vatican British illuminati property.

Michael Baigent
Michael Baigent

Yasha Beresiner
Yasha Beresiner

- In their books researchers Steven Knight and Melvyn Fairclough combine to paint a picture that implicates members of the Quatuor Coronati Lodge for the infamous Jack the Ripper murders in the late 1880's. They were apprentely covered up by Sir Charles Warren, who happened to be the Chief of London's Metropolitan Police.

- Michael Baigent, the lead author of the speculative series of books, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," "The Messianic Legacy," and "The Temple and the Lodge," is a high level member of the QC Lodge and the Editor of Freemasonry Today the so called independent Voice of Freemasonry. Together with Michael in Freemasonry today we find another illustrius
Brother called Julian Rees great manipulator of the Corner Stone Society, another Society in the hands of the Neo Vatican illuminati.

FREEMASON YASHA BERESINER IS THE KEY ZIONIST ILLUMINATI FIGURE OF TODAY WORKING IN Quatuor Coronati Lodge for the reconstruction of THE TEMPLE OF SOLOMON Curriculum Vitae

The late Jack Veffer (of Interflora fame) wrote the following in his book 'My 2 Cent's Worth':

RECIPE: Take one Russian father, one Greek mother, put them together in Istanbul, Turkey and beget a son called Yasha on 12 June 1940. Keep him there until 1948 and you have a little boy who can speak Turkish with a hint of Greek and Russian. Move to Israel till 1950 and the ten year old can now also speak Hebrew. Ship the boy to Milan Italy for three years or so and the little fellow can now manage Italian.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (a dangerous Nazi illuminati Order created by the English illuminati perverts of the S.R.I.A.)

- One of the most famous occult societies of the 20th Century.
- The Theosophical Society was formed in 1875 by Blavatsky and Colonel Henry Olcott, originally focused on Western mysticism. In the early 1880's Anna Kingsford and Edward Maitland joined the TS, and by 1884 they were the heads of the London Lodge of the TS.
- When Blavatsky and Olcott converted to Buddhism and changed their focus to Eastern mysticism Kingsford and Maitland left the TS and formed the Hermetic Society.
This group attracted S.L. MacGregor Mathers and Dr. W. Wynn Westcott.

Mme Helena Blavatsky
Helena Blavatsky in typical occult pose

- The Golden Dawn was then formed in 1888 by Westcott, supported by Mathers and Dr. William Robert Woodman. Their goal was to continue the tradition of Western mysticism that had been abandoned by the Theosophical Society.
- These three men were steeped in the philosophies of freemasonry, Rosicrucianism and the cabala. Westcott was a master mason and the secretary general of the SRIA, Latin for the Rosicrucian Society of England. Woodman was a leading member of the SRIA and an
expert cabalist. He initially played a lead role in developing Golden Dawn's cabalistic studies, but he died in 1891.
- Prominent members of the Golden Dawn include Florence Farr, the famous stage actress and head of the London branch; William Butler Yeats, also a member of the TS and friend of Blavatsky, who earned a Nobel Prize for literature in 1924; and Aleister Crowley, the celebrated Satanist and black magician later known as the Beast.

Ellic Howe

- Until his death in 1991 the late Ellic Howe was a sort of Mentor for illustrius
Brother P.Koenig the young illuminati Satanist from the Ordo Templi Orientis in Switzerland were the local OTO/illuminati lodge celebrate in Stein a weekly satanic Mass
created by A.Crowley.And this goes on since the early 50's.

Brother Koenig was as usual always desperate for more info on his ideal Satanic Master A.Crowley and Ellic Howe was probably the world's foremost authority on the Golden Dawn and Aleister Crowley until his death.So this is how Koenig and Ellic Howe became so close.
Brother Howe was inducted into UGLE in 1970 ,and then only eight years later he was elected Grand Master of the QC Lodge.
- After Howe died Robert A. Gilbert became the most respected promoter of the Golden Dawn and Aleister Crowley. He replaced Howe as the Grand Master of the QC Lodge. His book on the GD features an intro by Israel Regardie who was Crowley's friend, biographer and personal secretary. Regardie had also been involved in promoting LSD.

[hunkahunka]

The direct connection between the Masonic Lodge and the Golden Dawn is clear to see and the Golden Dawn has rightly been described as:

..a branch of Occult Masonry,24

In the light of what we have discovered so for about the origin of this organization in London in 1888, some other very interesting events need to be mentioned that took place in London that same year. Between August 31, 1888 and November 9, 1888, five prostitutes from the East End of London were murdered and their bodies horribly mutilated in what has come to be known as the ‘Jack the Ripper Murders’. There is one glaring similarity that all of the ‘Jack the Ripper’ victims have in common:

In each of the Ripper murders the victim was killed by the throat being cut from left to right.25

Dr. Bagster Phillips report on the corpse of Elizabeth Stride:

I affirm that she was seized by the shoulders, placed on the ground and that the perpetrator of the deed was on her right side when he inflicted the cut. I am of opinion that the cut was made from the left to the right of the deceased.26

In the lowest degree, that of the Entered Apprentice, part of the penalty for revealing Masonic secrets is to have the throat cut from left to right. The ‘penal sign’ of the Entered Apprentice has thus become a left-to-right movement of the hand across the throat.27

The discription for the illustration reads:

The Master then draws his right hand across his throat, the hand open, with the thumb nest to his throat, and drops it down by his side. This is called the penal sign of an Entered Apprentice Mason, (many call it sign) and alludes to the penalty of the obligation.28

Dr. Ralph Llewellyn examined the body of Mary Ann Nichols, the first victim of ‘Jack the Ripper’. In a statement that is on file in Scotland Yard, Dr. Llewellyn states:

...her throat had been cut after the mutilations to the abdomen.29

The obvious conclusion from this Doctor’s statement: the cutting of Mary Ann Nichols throat was not for the purpose of killing her, but was in keeping with a prescribed ritual.

On November 9th, 1888, Mary Jane Kelly, the last of the ‘Ripper’s’ victims, was found with her heart torn out. The oath of the second degree of Freemasonry, The Fellow Craft, reads as follows:

;binding myself under no less penalty than to have my left breast torn open and my heart and vitals taken from thence and thrown over my left shoulder..30

A description of the corpse of ‘Ripper’ victim, Annie Chapman:

The intestines, severed form their mesenteric attachments, had been lifted out of the body and placed on the shoulder of the corpse.31

The details of the body mutilations in the ‘Ripper’ murders show them plainly to be Masonic ritual murders. Such as a portion of Catherine Eddowes apron being cut off, ‘the apron’ being one on the most important Masonic symbols. A triangular flap of skin was also cut from each of her cheeks.

These two triangles have precise Masonic relevance. The sacred sign of Masonry is two triangles, which represent the altar top of the holy Royal Arch.32

The courageous work of Stephen Knight showed the ‘Ripper’ murders not only to be Masonic ritual murders, but also that they were covered up and concealed by Freemasons. There is also widespread belief that Stephen Knight’s death in 1985, was murder. The following is a quote form Knight’s book , The Brotherhood, the book that many people believe cost him his life, concerning the Masonic cover-up of the ‘Ripper’ murders:

The importance of the Ripper murders was not so much in the individual tragedies of the five women who died at the hands of a demented Freemason and his two toadies, although those were disturbing enough, but in the national tragedy of what followed: an official cover-up of immense proportions that confirmed that Freemasonry really was the unseen power behind the throne and government alike.

The man actively responsible for concealing the truth behind the Ripper murders was Sir Charles Warren, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and one of the country’s most eminent Freemasons. Warren impeded the investigation of the murders at every turn, caused endless confusion and delays, and personally destroyed the only clue the Ripper ever left. This was a scrawled chalk message on a wall inside a tenement block near the site of the fourth murder. Beneath the message was a blood-soaked piece of cloth which Jack the Ripper had recently cut from the apron of his latest victim.

The message itself, according to a careful copy made by a conscientious P.C. who was at the scene early - which had been concealed in the Scotland yard files on the case for nearly ninety years before I gained access to them - read :

The Juwes are

The men that

will not

be blamed

for nothing

The moment he was told of this, Warren, who had not previously ventured near the East End, rushed to the place before the message could be photographed and washed it away. This has never been explained. the Truth was that Warren, who had been exalted to the Royal Arch in 1861, had realized that the writing on the wall was a Masonic message.

Much of Masonic ritual centers on murder. At the 3rd Degree, the victim is Hiram Abiff, mythical architect in charge of the building of Solomon’s temple. The ceremony involves the mimed murder of hiram by three Apprentice Masons, and his subsequent resurrection. The three apprentices are named Jubela, Jubelo and Juwes. In Masonic lore, the Juwes are hunted down and executed, ‘by the breast being torn open and the heart and vitals taken out and thrown over the left shoulder’, which closely parallels the details of Jack the Ripper’s modus operandi.

Warren, a founder of the Quatuor Coronati Lodge of Masonic Research and by the time of the Ripper murders a Past Grand Sojourner of the Supreme Grand Chapter, knew only too well that the writing on the wall was telling the world, ‘The Freemasons are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.’33

Perhaps it is only a coincidence that these murders of the five prostitutes from the East end of London took place the same year that the Golden Dawn was founded by East London coroner Wynn Westcott!!

Another Mason that was involved in the cover-up of the events surrounding the ‘Rippper’ murders, was Lord Euston.

And despite the fact that he was known to be a frequenter of the homosexual brothel, his Masonic career flourished in the wake of the scandal. The moral virtue which Freemasons profess to hold sacred was clearly of little importance when Lord Euston was made Grand Master of the Mark Masons.34

We have already documented earlier, that the Golden Dawn held their rituals in the Mark Masons Hall and that the Golden Dawn rituals were held in the Mark Mason’s Hall in Euston Road.. That is perhaps another coincidence ??

One thing is for certain. We owe a great debt to the work of Stephen Knight for his courageous work in exposing the Masonic Lodge. As recently as June 1991, the Scottish Rite Journal ran an article to downplay and offset the work of Stephen Knight, which had a tremendous effect in England and caused Christians there to rise up in revolt against the Lodge. The article in the June 1991 issue of the Scottish Rite Journal stated:

His charge became the first volley in the current assault by some British churches on Freemasonry. An acquaintance with the book is necessary to understand the unexpected strength of the attack on Masonry.35

Golden Dawn Associates convicted of Rape

At the Old Bailey in 1901 two Golden Dawn associates, Mr. and Mrs. Horos (not Horus!), were tried for rape. They were jailed for fifteen and seven years respectively, but only after it was revealed that they had used the Golden Dawn initiation ceremony to beguile their juvenile victims. The Solicitor-General read out huge chunks of Mathers’ revised ritual including being ‘slain or paralyzed without visible weapon, as if blasted by the lightning flash’.

He branded the entire ritual ‘most blasphemous ‘ but did not point out that large passages had been lifted from Craft Freemasonry.36

We have been researching the three original founders of the Golden Dawn and now we will learn about another prominent Freemason and Golden Dawn member that has made a significant contribution to our current occult explosion.

Arthur Edward Waite

Waite was initiated into the Golden Dawn at Mathers home. This was the same S. L. McGregor Mathers that introduced Aleister Crowley to the practice of magic. A tribute is paid to A. E. Waite in one of the classic books on Freemasonry by one of its most eminent and respected scholars. A portion of this tribute to Waite by Joseph Fort Newton in his book, The Builders reads as follows:

Perhaps the greatest student in this field of esoteric teaching and method, certainly the greatest now living, is Arthur Edward Waite, to whom it is a pleasure to pay tribute.37

On page 94 of the September 1991 Macoy Catalogue, The Builders, by Joseph Fort Newton is listed in the "Basic Group No. 1" of the Macoy Library Collection.

Not everyone however has the same high opinion of Waite that Newton does. Christian author William Schnoebelen has the following to say about Golden Dawn member and Freemason, A. E. Waite:

Waite himself was a sorcerer and taught people through his books how to conjure up demons and sell their souls to the devil!

Though he kept pretending to be a "white-light" Christian magician (??), he wrote books with titles like The Book of Black Magic and Pacts. How gulible do they think we can be? One can no more be a Christian magician than a Christian crack peddler!38

After examining first hand the writing of A. E. Waite, I am compelled to agree with Mr. Schnoenbelen. Waite’s occult writings and personal advice helped to foster the demonic growth of another fellow Mason and Golden Dawn member, Aleister Crowley, who would later go on to pursue and propigate evil to unparalelled proportions. Occult Author Francis king writes about Waite’s influence on Crowley:

Born in 1875 of Plymouth Brethren stock, Aleister Crowley had read, while still an undergraduate at Cambridge, a book by A. E. Waite and, inspired by some dark hints given in the introduction to this book, had written to Waite asking if there was a ‘Secret Sanctuary" to which he could gain admittance. Waite had sent a kindly, if a little unhelpful, reply, urging the young aspirant to read Madame de Steiger’s translation of an eighteenth-century mystical work The Cloud on the Sanctuary. Crowley did this and also burried himself in the study of obscure qabalistic texts.39

As we begin to understand how the magical rituals of the Golden Dawn, the occult writings and the personal advice of such men as Mathers and Waite, created the soil that spawned the evil genious of Crowley, we can understand why prominent witches can call the Golden Dawn the biggest single influence in the occult explosion. Men like A. E. Waite deserve no praise, but our most hearty rebuke and renunciation. As we trace our current woes that we are experiencing from the occult explosion of the New Age Movement, Witchcraft, and Satanism, it would do us well to see clearly the common denominator that all of these men shared that we have researched. (Woodman, Westcott, Mathers, Waite, and Crowley) They were all members of the Golden Dawn and they were all Freemasons!

While Waite was writing as an authority on Freemasonry, he was also writing as an authority on Black Magic and the Kabbalah. We show below the covers of two books written by A. E. Waite, The Book of Black Magic and A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry.

[faulconandsnowjob]

Graflok, thank you so much for that reply. I hope you don't mind if I post that on the PID thread. That's really where I'd like that thread to go, but it gets bogged down in always having to "prove" Paul was replaced :-P

[hunkahunka]

From the Archives - A look back at Corpsewood

In December of 1982, Sheriff’s Deputies of Chattooga County Georgia were dispatched to a remote location on Taylor’s Ridge, also known as Corpsewood. The occupants of Corpsewood; Dr. Charles L. Scudder and Joseph Odom, had become mysterious and strange transplants into a community unaccustomed to outsiders moving into the area. Rumors swirled around the small, rural county that the men were Satanists. When the Deputies arrived they found the bodies of both men, dead from gunshot wounds.

While the story has become local legend within the county and the bordering counties, there is another aspect of the slayings that gained very little media attention and fits into a small corner of the history of MKULTRA. Dr. Scudder’s past and evidence found at the scene of the crime place the Dr. into the early days of the project.

Dr. Scudder was a professor of pharmacology at Loyola University prior to moving to Georgia in the mid 1970’s. His work at the University began at some point in the late 1940’s. Loyola helped to play a part in the MKULTRA program by working to recreate LSD-25 which the CIA had bought from Sandoz Laboratories. His later work centered around the study of mice in controlled environments.

Finding the research papers of Dr. Scudder has been difficult for me over the years, with only tantalizing glimpses of his work popping up from time to time. The greatest and most intriguing has been the detailed listings of the Stafford Beer collection at Liverpool John Moores University. Among the items in the collection is a series of papers, letters and research materials for a project named “Challenge to Paradigm”, which was planned to be published as a book. Scudder was among the 7 contributors to this book project, which was also comprised of 4 other University professors and musician Brian Eno.

The titles of the papers that Dr. Scudder was to contribute to the book are interesting to say the least, "The mind an evolving system of models","Mindless meaning; meaningless mind", "On the environmental mind” and "The brain: a neurohumorally regulated ultrahomeostat". It’s worth noting that with Scudder’s background and work with psycho-reactive drugs and neurophysiology, he would have been of serious interest to the CIA.

Among the items found in Corpsewood were several vials of a clear liquid. When the state crime lab analyzed these vials it was learned that the liquid was highly purified LSD-25 and it was believed that based on the chemical signature the vials were from one of the original batches of the drug which was imported by the CIA.

So, how did this researcher wind up in the hills of north Georgia, only to be murdered? In the mid-1970’s, Scudder had decided to move a remote location, one that was away from the hustle of everyday life. In a 1976 interview with Mother Earth News, Scudder detailed the process of becoming sick of modern life and his efforts to build his home and live off the land in the hills.

In the end, Scudder and Odom’s deaths were as violent and as senseless as any murder that could occur in Chicago, the city he escaped to live a quiet country lifestyle. The killers were two local men who planned to rob them at gunpoint. Scudder and Odom were known to host small parties with the local youths which involved wine and drugs. The killers used this as part of their plan to gain entry to their home however, once the drugs and alcohol took hold things got out of hand, which resulted in the deaths of both men.

The side story that Scudder left behind, his death, is almost as interesting as the research career he had.

I just happened to think about Corpsewood tonight and I thought I'd record what I know HERE as I probably should somewhere. The years are passing quick.

You guys that are older may remember the Corpsewood Murders that made national news in the 1980s.

Here's a link:
http://www.geocities.com/corpsewoods/thenandnow.html

My dad knew law enforcement well, and the day after the murders were discovered we were allowed to go up there. It was dad and me only.

Dad was off looking at this and that with his friends and I wondered around the pink estate and into the pink room.

For the record, I want to say what I saw, because I have never seen this mentioned and I always thought it should be.

There was 2 floors but no stairs per say. There was a hole in the second floor, and there was a ladder and a big 50 gallon drum. You could get up either way. I went up there.

There was porn everywhere. A mattress on the floor and just GOBS of porn. There was a huge picture book with black and white photos of local boys. I knew they were local b/c I recognized one of them, mostly teenagers around 16-up to about 24 I guess. Young men. Some dressed, but a LOT nude and aroused. Some looked a bit scared but for no obvious reason. All alone, and the pictures looked - I dunno - more like a photo record or way to blackmail than really an attempt at being sexy. I was 13 but I remember thinking that. The pictures looked more like something you would see in some sort of concentration camp. Does that make sense? Like the guys would just be nude, standing in front of a tree, maybe with their hands covering themselves, maybe not. ALL the pictures were similiar.

I felt a draw to the place for years - but it was just so remote and had a history, and it IS haunted, and the ghosts there like me.

Now, later on, you will read stories about pentagram rocks and people seeing this and that. **I** was part of a group that partied up there - and we were all stumbling occultists at that time, so it was US that drew those pentagrams up there and left the black candles, ect. I'll admit that now. WE did not destroy the place, but we trespassed - often. Surely the statue of limitations has run out though. lol It was me, Randy, Don, Bruno, Paul (my 1st husband) Peanut, Chris and also my current husband. Me and my guys. lol I know for a fact that I am also responsible for ONE group seeing a ghost - but it wasn't a ghost they saw - it was me. Not that the place ISN'T haunted - but some of the more outrageous stories I can definitely say - that was just us.

We dropped so much acid there we probably left our own 'acid' vibe on the place as well as the two former occupants.

Later on, a lawyer that I did a bit of work with happened to confide in me that he was fascinated with the case - he had bought up the furniture on auction. He was kind enough to show it to me. Pretty neat stuff.

ANYWAY, I grew up - haven't been there in years (what is left of it) ..Dr. Scutter was involved with mind control and linked to the CIA and MK-Ultra project. They found pure LSD up there - they said it was highly purified like the CIA had.

I know there was a big hoo hoo with law enforcement - that is one thing I remember clearly. When I was checking out the pink room, my dad was with the cops and they were looking all over the lad for a possible location of an underground lab. They felt like that LSD was the kind that a very good lab would be making, so they were digging up portions of the land looking for such a lab. They never did find one.

I would wonder if Scutter was not still connected to the CIA continuing some sort of work up there with brainwashing. I don't doubt that they were living a homosexual lifestyle, but I also always felt - from looking at that photo album - that they WERE preying SOMEHOW - more than just sexually - on the young homosexual or bicurious male population in that area.

Years later, I read the charts of the killers for their forensic evaluations. I can't repeat any of that, of course, due to confidentiality.

Now, the questions I have are related to this and that.

If anyone else knows more about this case, I'd love to hear it

[hunkahunka]

http://www.golden-dawn.com/eu/displaycontent.aspx?pageid=101

5th Ray of Truth:

It is clear that sex magic is a fundamental teaching of the historical Golden Dawn and any true Golden Dawn Order today and its inclusion in the curriculum is required by any classical Golden Dawn order.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51y075rddoL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzaFr_JN34&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFbItohcsI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpMzl5Q6QBs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY-JZrdBGOc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkuhyAXSeaw&feature=related

[soulja]

Springmeier is the Mac Daddy of writers on this subject. A lot of people on this forum are huge fans.

huge fans ?? that's outrageously funny and strange too cause in all my time posting on this board i haven't met one person who was a huge fan of springmeier. maybe i'm just not perceptive enough or maybe you mistake people who are interested in MK and read his books as huge fans..


He may well be putting some good information out there, I don't know, I only know the extracts that have been posted in various places. However as I mentioned earlier in the thread these articles (linked from illuminati-news) say some pretty damning things about him:

http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm
http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm

that's the third time you posted that smear articles, are you aiming for a new record of posting the same info ?
btw isn't it funny that even those articles trying to discredit springmeier (who currently serves a 9 year prison sentence) don't dispute his knowledge on MK but try to put it like he's one of the programmers ?

i wonder what the guy who wrote that piece ever contributed to MK research?
ah yea that's right, he contributed fuck all except sniping at one of it's best researchers..

[soulja]

found this interesting thread on another forum,
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=588577

[sunya]

huge fans ?? that's outrageously funny and strange too cause in all my time posting on this board i haven't met one person who was a huge fan of springmeier. maybe i'm just not perceptive enough or maybe you mistake people who are interested in MK and read his books as huge fans..



that's the third time you posted that smear articles, are you aiming for a new record of posting the same info ?
btw isn't it funny that even those articles trying to discredit springmeier (who currently serves a 9 year prison sentence) don't dispute his knowledge on MK but try to put it like he's one of the programmers ?

i wonder what the guy who wrote that piece ever contributed to MK research?
ah yea that's right, he contributed fuck all except sniping at one of it's best researchers..

Meh, I see things getting a bit unbalanced at times is all. The Springmeier story is bizarre and serious researchers would obviously want to be aware of this.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUW-frxo2X4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOARWX3OjFc&NR=1

[miss_splitfoot]

Meh, I see things getting a bit unbalanced at times is all.


too right things get unbalanced here. FS's word is used as gospel by certain members on this thread & that's unhealthy. i'm not surprised Sunya posted her links a number of times because anything contrary to The Word of Springmeier is ignored because it doesn't fit in with the member's theory.

[sunya]

too right things get unbalanced here. FS's word is used as gospel by certain members on this thread & that's unhealthy. i'm not surprised Sunya posted her links a number of times because anything contrary to The Word of Springmeier is ignored because it doesn't fit in with the member's theory.

Yeah!

(Hides behind woman who thinks I'm a woman)

:p

[hunkahunka]

The OTO & the CIA
Ordis Templis Intelligentis

by Alex Constantine

Flying saucer mythology took hold in a big way in the 1950s, wrapped in gaudy pulp covers and flashed on movie screens. Jack Parsons, the CalTech rocket pioneer and high priest of the OTO's Agape Lodge in Pasadena - and one of the first Americans to report a UFO sighting - was addicted to science fiction. He regularly attended meetings of the L.A. Fantasy and Science Fiction Society, where in 1945 the black adept (he took "the Oath of the Anti-Christ" in 1949) met Lt. Commander L. Ron Hubbard, who made "alien" visitations an integral part of a religious doctrine he called Scientology.

The OTO was founded between 1895 and 1900 by a pair of powerful Freemasons, Karl Kellner and Theodor Reuss. Politically, the order was right-wing in the extreme, proposing the creation of a pan-German world based on pagan spiritual beliefs. Kellner died in 1905, and Reuss, a former spy for the Prussian Secret Service, assumed the office of high caliph. While living in London, Reuss spied on German socialist expatriates. In 1912 he made the acquaintance of Aleister Crowley, and appointed him head of the OTO's British chapter. But The Beast's political loyalties have always been an open question.

While living in the States, he wrote pro-German diatribes for two fascist publications, The Fatherland and The Internationalist. After WW II, there were calls for his head. But Crowley offered that his pro-German stance was a ruse of MI6, the military intelligence division in the UK.

In 1912 he had informed the secret service of his correspondence with Reuss, the German spy. Throughout the '20s and '30s, Crowley gathered intelligence on European Communists, the Nazi movement and Germany's occult lodges. Crowley died in 1944, willing the copyright for his books and unpublished manuscripts to the OTO, and leadership of the order to Karl Germer, otherwise known as Frater Saturnus X., formerly Crowley's Legate in the U.S. Germer was born in Germany, served in WW I and was reportedly tossed in the prison by the Nazis for his involvement in Freemasonry. (Crowley believed Germer to be a Nazi spy, but admitted him to the OTO anyway. Typical.)

He settled after the war in Dublin, California and died on October 25, 1962 "under horrifying circumstances," according to his wife in a letter to Marcelo Motta, an OTO official in Brazil. She informed him that Germer, on his death bed, had insisted that Motta succeed him as the Outer Head of the occult order. But the mantle was not passed on to Karl Germer's chosen successor because the CIA orchestrated a coup. But not as an OTO spokesman tells it: "Recently the United States government has legalized our opinion.... [McMurty's] leadership of the Ordo Templi Orientis rests on several rather clear letters of authorization from Crowley himself. They met while McMurty was a young First Lieutenant during World War II. He had been admitted to the OTO in 1941 Jack Parsons."

In fact, the choice of McMurty was not entirely "clear." Motta's advocates insist the court decision was based on the perjured testimony of McMurty and attorneys with CIA paymasters. The cult's position on a successor is moot since, according to charters signed on March 22, 1946 and April 11, 1946, The Beast of the Apocalypse had left it to Germer to veto or amend his designation of a successor. As Motta saw it, no one had a legitimate claim to the title but he. Unfortunately, Herr Germer died during the period the CIA had chosen to move mind control experimentation from academic and military labs into the community. An inner circle of Heironymous scientists experimented on cult devotees, and sometimes collaborated in mass murder to silence the subjects (Jonestown, SLA, Solar Temple). It was a sweet arrangement. Occult societies are secretive and often highly irrational. They follow a leader. They exist on the edge of a society that ignores them because weird religious rhetoric is obnoxious.

A number of intelligence agents with occult interests already had their hooks into the OTO. One of them was Gerald Yorke, a veteran British intelligence agent working, an advocate of Motta argues, "with American intelligence in an attempt to absorb the OTO into the ideological warfare network of the political right." Before the horns of Thelemite succession were bestowed upon Grady McMurty, Yorke the prelate spy "misinterpreted" Germer's will and named Joseph Metzger, a ranking Thelemite (and the son of a former Swiss intelligence chief), to the office of high caliph. One order adept, Oskar Schlag, was an alleged "psychological warfare" specialist from Israel. Even McMurty (with his degree in political science) was a State Department bureaucrat the day Herr Germer died. The coup was sealed while Marcelo Motta, a writer for Brazilian television, fended off operatives of the CIA bent on destroying his sanity and leaving him financially crippled. It was a ritual that subjects of mind control conditioning would come to know well. Strangers approached his friends and filled their ears with lurid stories of debauchery. He was suddenly unable to find work. His mail was opened. Motta took a job teaching English, studied self-defense. "He had begun to doubt his sanity," the advocate says. "He constantly suspected people who approached him. He saw in himself all the clinical symptoms of paranoia."

After a few years of harassment and squabbling over the leadership of the OTO, Motta came to the realization that the McMurty junta and "the American 'intelligence' network behind them had a worry, and a pressing one; Motta's proposed 'New Manifesto' [did] not mention ... Grady at all. Since their purpose was to create an American 'intelligence' tool at the expense of a religious organization, it was necessary to either bring Motta to concede Grady further authority or to discredit Motta completely." They did what they wilt. In 1967 Germer's entire occult library and manuscripts were stolen from the home of his widow. Without the royalties these brought in, Mrs. Germer was destitute and literally starved to death. Motta was cast out of the OTO. Trouble brewed in the cult's cauldron. At least one Cotton Club killer passed through. The OTO's Solar Lodge in San Bernardino was founded by Maury McCauley, a mortician, on his own property. McCauley was married to Barbara Newman, a former model and the daughter of a retired Air Force colonel from Vandenberg. The group subscribed to a grim, apocalyptic view of the world precipitated by race wars, and the prophecy made a lasting impression on Charles Manson, who passed through the lodge. In the L.A. underworld, the OTO spin-off was known for indulgence in sadomasochism, drug dealing, blood drinking, child molestation and murder. The Riverside OTO, like the Manson Family, used drugs, sex, psycho-drama and fear to tear down the mind of the initiate and rebuild it according to the desires of the cult's inner-circle.

On the East Coast, a series of murders created an atmosphere of fear in New York City. Before the world had ever heard of Son of Sam, an obscure [B]Vietnam vet named David Berkowitz moved into an apartment on Pine Street, a rotting gantlet of hovels in Yonkers. Like much of the bloodshed for which he is known, Berkowitz did not make the decision to live on Pine Street. Key decisions in his life were made by the leaders of a religious group based in Westchester, a hybrid of OTO members and acolytes from the Process Church of the Final Judgment. Members of the cult mingled with others in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and had contact with similar groups across the country. The leader of the Westchester "family" was a real estate attorney with a practice in White Plains. He was active in local politics. Balding, lean with years, he directed Berkowitz and his "brothers" to kill in the name of an old cause. The group's meeting place was an abandoned church, a decrepit hulk on the grounds of the abandoned Warburg-Rothschild estate. The church, partially eaten by fire, was the group's "eastern Headquarters." Most of the pews had been removed from the church long ago. On one wall was hung a large silver pentagram, festooned with silver insets in the shape of Waffen SS lightning bolts.

[soulja]

Meh, I see things getting a bit unbalanced at times is all. The Springmeier story is bizarre and serious researchers would obviously want to be aware of this.

yea right, i'm sure ''that's all''

a serious researchers would at least have read springmeiers work before or after they keep on posting those links.. especially if one of their favourite words seems to be ''balanced''

oh btw, this has been discussed long before you even showed up on the thread, it's not like you brought that to our attention.


too right things get unbalanced here. FS's word is used as gospel by certain members on this thread & that's unhealthy. i'm not surprised Sunya posted her links a number of times because anything contrary to The Word of Springmeier is ignored because it doesn't fit in with the member's theory.

lol.. hmm.. where to start ? first off springmeiers work shows the same general theme as all the other works and testimonies on MK. like Svali, O'Brien, Taylor and so on.. so much to his word is the gospel :rolleyes:

secondly, the only ''critical'' posts that got ignored were mostly yours simply cos you keep babbling on about the same things.. you know, things that people who have done even basic research on MK would dismiss as ridiculous.

you haven't contributed anything apart from the tired old ''nothing to see here move along'' type of posts..

it's comparable to talking to a brainwashed fox news viewer about 9/11.

you see there's a difference between serious debate and half assed but surprisingly persistent ''debunking'' attempts as far as i'm concerned. ;)

[miss_splitfoot]

secondly, the only ''critical'' posts that got ignored were mostly yours simply cos you keep babbling on about the same things.. you know, things that people who have done even basic research on MK would dismiss as ridiculous.

examples please? babbling on about the same things, eh? you mean i write about Kurt Cobain who is actually what this thread is meant to be about before a bunch of people hijacked the thread & turned it into something that should be in the MIND CONTROL section of this forum?

i post to correct mistakes that people make when talking about Cobain, eg. when Hunka wanted him to be 16 in a photograph so it sounds like he was an MKed rent boy, when in fact he was 21.

another example (paraphrased)

POSTER 1 - cobain had a bad stomach & that proves he was MKed because i know someone really famous who said he was MKed and he had a bad stomach.

ME: no, actually it was a medical condition caused by a trapped nerve.

sorry if that's pissing on someones parade, but if you're going to try to "prove" a guy was MKed then at lease get your facts straight about him.

you haven't contributed anything apart from the tired old ''nothing to see here move along'' type of posts..


i have said nothing of the kind.


it's comparable to talking to a brainwashed fox news viewer about 9/11.

and sometimes talking to some david icke fans (note SOME) is comparable to trying to get a christian to question things in the bible.

you see there's a difference between serious debate and half assed but surprisingly persistent ''debunking'' attempts as far as i'm concerned. ;)

as i said, i'm not trying to "debunk" anything. MK went/goes on. end of. my beef is when people create a theory a with half assed research (ie reading ONE biography about a person) & dismisses REAL FACT (ie, the age of a person in a photo) as an attempt to debunk his theory.

peace,
:)

[hunkahunka]

Very interesting read ,

Toronto Maple Leafs sponsor new film on a gay couple, one an ex pro hockey player, featuring a gay 11 year old as one of their kids. Team pledged full support, including use of MapleLeafs logos, uniforms, etc.:

The film is based on the book of the same title about an 11 year-old boy who is described in an Amazon.com book review as "mincing" and "swishy," and who has to be prevented from wearing pantyhose, eyeliner, and perfume to school."

Read on, gets into the past pedophile sex scandal at Maple Leaf Gardens, masonic links to former Leafs owners Harold Ballard & Steve Stavros, includes info on two mysterious 'suicides' of young men from the same spot on same bridge within six months, both of the boys involved with Maple Leaf Gardens sex scandal tried to expose the pedophile ring at the Gardens, both boys found at exactly the same spot beneath the bridge, on the grounds of a progressive arts school described as a walking 'pride parade', with gloating articles about their deaths in gay news fliers, etc.:

A MUST READ:

:
Toronto Maple Leafs Hockey Sponsors Gay Movie Featuring Homosexual 11 Year-Old
Leafs general manager John Ferguson says "we're comfortable with it"

By Hilary White
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/nov/06112408.html

TORONTO, November 24, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team announced today that they have lent the team's name and
logo to a film depicting a homosexual Leafs player. The film portrays a Leafs player who wants to "come out" as a public homosexual, his
live-in partnership with the team's lawyer and their adopted "son," described as "a budding queen of an 11-year-old boy."
The film is based on the book of the same title about an 11 year-old boy who is described in an Amazon.com book review as "mincing" and
"swishy," and who has to be prevented from wearing pantyhose, eyeliner and perfume to school.
"Breakfast with Scott", now being shot on location in Toronto and Hamilton, will go ahead with the willing cooperation of the team's
management. The Toronto Star reports that actor Tom Cavanaugh, who depicts the fictional player, Eric McNally, was "shocked" that the
Leafs management agreed to allow the team to be depicted in a homosexual propaganda film.
Cavanaugh remarked to the Star on the significance of using the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team, one of the icons of Canadian culture as the
background for a story about open homosexuals and endorsing child homosexuality. "There's something instant to the viewer when you put on
a Leafs jersey or any Original Six jersey."
Olympic swim champion Mark Tewksbury, a board member of the Gay and Lesbian Athletics Foundation, said, "I think it's really great that
(the team management) are supporting it. I know it's an iconic team, but I think it makes sense this is happening in Canada because we've
been far ahead on these issues."
As a work of homosexual propaganda, the film is clearly meant to target the last vestiges of resistance to normalized homosexuality among
Canadians. In the book, the homosexual couple live in Cambridge, Massachusetts and are a chiropractor and magazine editor; hockey does
not figure at all.
Publishers Weekly praises the book's value as a pro-homosexual propaganda tool calling it a "heartwarming" and "noble" depiction of a
"new configuration of contemporary American family values." Publisher's Weekly review said, "Scot's flamboyant, androgynous flair
makes for some school yard and neighborhood crises, but the boy's innate sweetness and open-mindedness endear him to several youngsters
and most adults."
The homosexualist ideology asserts that the condition is natural and unchangeable and therefore that children can be born with it and have
it be part of their normal sexual development. The depiction of an eleven year-old boy as a homosexual might be more than audiences are
willing to accept.
Leafs management, however, seemed sanguine. General manager John Ferguson told the Star, "On our end, we're certainly not trying to make a statement. ... We agreed to host them and we're comfortable with it." To respectfully contact the Leafs with concerns:
Richard Peddie is President of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.


The Maple Leafs are masonic and occult.
The Maple Leafs and Air Canada Center are owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which was founded by the late Steve Stavros , who died just last year.
>From Wikipedia:


' Stavros is buried at Mount Pleasant Cemetery where he built a tomb
adorned with the insignia of many of his achievements including (among others) the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, Order of Canada, Knights of Malta, Order of the Masons and a statue of Alexander the Great mounted on a horse.

The Order of Canada is masonic. (appointment to the Order of Canada is Canada's equivalent of a British 'knighthood', another masonic order. A very public honor bestowed by the Lieutenant Governor (Queen's representative within the Canadian government) upon prominent public figures. In England , knighthoods mean that British citizen Elton John is now Sir Elton John, as is Sir Mick Jagger and Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Lawrence Olivier, among others) Ever wonder why famous Canadian lesbian singer KD Lang and CTV news anchor Max Keeping were both awarded the Order of Canada? Homosexual Ottawa news anchor Max Keeping is a Freemason (not sure about kd Lang, but she IS gay just like Max) Stavros bought the Toronto Maple Leafs from former owner Harold Ballard, who was also a Freemason:



http://freemasonrywatch.org/freemasonry_in_canada.html

"Freemasonry takes good men and makes them better"
- Harold Ballard

The new world order, the largely Masonic new world order, is all about depopulation: which means promoting homosexuality, abortion, AIDS, war, etc. So there you have it. The Leafs are part of the Masonic grid. So is the Order of Canada.

Reminds me of young Martin Kruze who ultimately committed suicide after he went public about the childhood sexual abuse involving Maple Leaf Gardens. Charges were laid against Gordon Stuckless, John Paul Roby, and George Hannah. (George Hannah died, but police said he was also involved).

One of the things the social elite do believe in is that the world is overpopulated and that something needs to be done about it.
DDT was one of those things, 300 million people died without it, but the social elite do promote anything and everything that will cause
less humans on earth. Ted Turner even said on an interview that he feels there should only be about 150 million people on the planet.



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1998/01/30/...ens980130a.html

20 abuse victims file suit against Maple Leaf Gardens
November 13, 1998 | 11:06 PM ET
CBC News
Twenty people have filed lawsuits against Maple Leaf Gardens and some of its former employees. They are asking for compensation for what they
described as 20 years of painful memories of sexual abuse.
Many say they have turned to drugs or crime or both to forget, but can't put the abuse behind them. One of their lawyers, Harvin Pitch hopes the Gardens will settle and spare his clients the anguish of testifying in court. Last week the Gardens apologized and offered to pay for counselling. Ken Dryden, the general manager said at the time that the Gardens was not admitting legal responsibility.

http://www.guardiantrader.com/images/pyramid_power_book.jpg



http://www.lonepinepublishing.com/img/cover/9780973768121.png
• in 1976, Maple Leafs coach Red Kelly installed pyramids in the players' dressing room and under the bench in an attempt to harness "pyramid power"

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/graphspot/one_kelly05.jpg
Kelly was a close personal friend of Harold Ballard and a liberal member
of parliament for the York West region of Toronto while still a pro hockey player in 1962. (little doubt that he too was a Freemason)

[quote]http://www.mapleleafs.com/history/1970s.asp
During the 1976 Quarterfinals against the Flyers, Toronto Maple Leafs coach Red Kelly utilized his ‘Pyramid Power’ theory as a psychological ploy. Kelly had the players believe that pyramids were a source of energy and strength. The Leaf coach then placed small pyramids under the bench and in the dressing room. All this was to no avail as the hated Flyers won the bitter quarterfinal series in 7 games.

http://toppun.com/Rainbow-Store/Gay-Pride-Pictures/Dawning-of-New-Age-Pyramid-Power-Pink-Triangle.gif


Freemasonry and the illuminati have long been associated with pyramid symbols such as this:
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/891509/2/istockphoto_891509_pyramid_on_us_dollar_bill.jpg

Martin Kruze's death was another one of those mysterious, convenient 'suicides' that seem to turn up everywhere these elite societies are .
wonder what Kruze knew about the bigger picture?


http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/17/26/News/feature.html
Street worker Krin Zook tells me that the bodies often land on the school's playing field, and kids have run down before the authorities
arrive because they think it's going to be cool to see a dead person, but they come back, she says, "shocked and traumatized."
"We were lucky," she adds, "that Martin Kruze jumped during the teachers' strike. And no one saw Kenneth Au Yeung (the St. Michael's choir boy) jump either."

and here we have another young 'suicide' linked to the Maple Leafs sex scandal:


:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...p;Params=M1AR

For 17 days, the Toronto coroner's inquest into the Dec. 11 suicide of 17-year-old Kenneth Au Yeung had listened to depressing testimony. The most wrenching moment was the July 3 appearance of Catherine Au Yeung. In a hushed voice, she testified that her son, who jumped to his death from a Toronto viaduct after being questioned by his school principal and an off-duty police officer, would still be alive if his parents had been present at the interrogation. Last week, the five-member inquest jury brought down its recommendations - and implicitly agreed with her assessment. "The principal, or acting staff member in charge," the jury wrote, "must notify the parents of students under the age 18 whenever a serious breach of discipline occurs, when a criminal investigation is commenced, when extremely unusual situations arise, or when in doubt about a situation."
The circumstances surrounding Au Yeung's death, first reported in the Feb. 2 issue of Maclean's, were certainly unusual. A student at the prestigious St. Michael's Choir School in Toronto, the teenager had been involved in a school yearbook prank, which resulted in a passage being altered in order to link longtime school choir director Henry Hodson with the Maple Leaf Gardens sex scandal. Jurors had heard testimony from Au Yeung's yearbook colleagues that he had asked to contact his parents during questioning by Toronto police Const. Christopher Downer and St. Michael's principal, John Ryall - in conformity with the official policy of the Toronto Catholic District School Board. But, the students said, they had been told the meeting was "informal" - in other words, that Au Yeung could not call. The students also said that Downer, an alumnus of the school who was present at Ryall's request, showed them his badge and warned them they could potentially face criminal charges. Hours later, Au Yeung killed himself.
The Au Yeung family had asked the jury to make recommendations to spare other families their tragic experience. "I still feel if I was there that morning, if I was called, Kenneth would be alive today," Catherine Au Yeung said during her emotional testimony. Of the school administrators who would not let her son call home, she added: "If it was their own children, they would want to be there. I find that quite difficult to take." And for the grieving mother, there was never any question that the meeting with Ryall and Downer drove her son to his death. "The significant thing is, he didn't jump off the bridge when he left home," she said. "He jumped off after the meeting."
The night before he died, Au Yeung told his parents about the prank, although he did not tell them he and another boy were responsible. He said Ryall had threatened to call the police if no one confessed. "I said to Kenneth, 'Don't worry, if they call the police I have to be there,' " Catherine Au Yeung testified. But she wasn't there - and many of the inquest jury's 23 recommendations were designed to ensure that such a lapse not occur again. Among other things, the jury said that schools in the Toronto Catholic District School Board should "be directed to comply with the board policy requiring mandatory notification of parents if access to the student involves police investigation," and recommended that teachers should be retrained in such policies every year.
But the jury's recommendations also touched on police practices. Police, the report said, should develop guidelines for the actions of off-duty officers, and that if an off-duty officer is asked to a school, "the matter should be cleared with the appropriate supervisor and the events documented." As well, the jury said that police should "focus a training program, or expand on existing programs, dealing with a better understanding of adolescent development."
After the report was brought down, Downer told Maclean's that the recommendations were "insightful" - but that he still thought his actions had been appropriate. He said there was no question that the inquest would change the way both police and school officials do their jobs, but added: "I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. We have to be very careful of the schools not becoming a haven for delinquent behavior. I don't think the message should be sent that it's OK to do what you want inside the school because the principal will be scared to pick up the phone and call the police for help."
As the inquiry finally ended, there was an air of relief outside the coroner's building in downtown Toronto. Downer, Ryall and Hodson hugged family members and supporters. "On balance, I think a lot of good things came out of this," Hodson said. "I don't think there is anything in the recommendations that is harmful to the school. On Dec. 9, I was proud of our school - and on July 10 I am proud of our school." But Au Yeung's parents clung to each other in a tearful embrace. Then, without speaking to reporters, they left, carrying the thin sheaf of
recommendations intended to ensure that other parents might be spared their pain.

St. Micheal's Choir School (Au Yeung's school) disregarded its own rules by not calling Ken's parents, and they did not even call the Toronto Police either. They called an off-duty officer, and brought the kid into a secret meeting. An interrogation?
Why? What was the big deal? He linked this Hodson to the Gardens sex scandal, sneaked it into the print edition of the year book, (a caption was added under a teacher's photo joking that he also worked part time as
equipment manager for the Maple Leafs, a clear reference to rumors that Hodson was a pedophile). Yeung got hauled into a private meeting with the principal and a cop, then wound up taking a fall from the bridge on a school day, landing on the grounds of Rosedale Heights school , and yet no one in the school saw him jump. The same bridge that Martin Kruze jumped from. (Prince Edward Viaduct) No history of mental illness or suicidal tendencies that I can find. EXACTLY THE SAME SPOT THAT KRUZE JUMPED FROM (see article 'Death of a Choirboy' , by Jane O'Hara & John Nicol, Maclean's Magazine, Feb2nd , 1998, volume 111, issue 5 . page 3)
Now, what are the odds that Au Yeung would know exactly which spot Kruze jumped from? (Prince Edward Viaduct bridge is HUGE)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Toronto-bloorviaduct.jpg/250px-Toronto-bloorviaduct.jpg


Steve Stavros was a member of the Knights of Malta, and the Freemasons. St. Michael's choir master H. Hodson is a member of Knights of St. Gregory . btw, the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan financially backed Steve Stavros to buy the Leafs, and is now the majority owner of the Leafs, so here is another clue as to why the Leafs are in this gay pedophile movie.
----------
Three men were charged. Two of them are dead, taking with them whatever they may have eventually revealed. Everyone in the Gardens knew it was happening, and that Kruze was paid $60,000 to shut up. He was little more than a child prostitute. How many others were paid off? He broke his end of the bargain, and came forward to the media and pressed charges in 1997.
We all know that Ballard was a Freemason, and the ownership was passed on from him to another Freemason, Steve Stavros, and we know that Kenneth Au Yeung died under suspicious circumstances because he knew something. (his prank in the yearbook caused him to be interrogated in a secret meeting, maybe to find out how much he knew. I guess he probably knew too much, because he was found dead the next day. Yeung had altered the text of the yearbook before it went to press, and jokingly added a blurb under a choirmaster's picture saying something to the effect of 'also works part time as equipment manager to the Toronto Maple Leafs', a reference to the Maple Leaf Gardens pedophile sex scandal)
He died essentially in police custody, as he was never seen alive again after that meeting. The official story is that he left the meeting , went straight to the bridge,
and two people saw him jump. To me this is B.S., Au Yeung was a young , attractive, gifted, and dynamic young asian man who was going on to be a computer engineer, volunteered at a seniors center, and once boasted that he was the luckiest guy in the world because he knew he would be a rich high-tech specialist in an era of unlimited opportunity. We are supposed to believe this Yeung guy , a winner by every standard , was suicidal over a trivial joke in a year book. Oh, but there were witnesses, you say? Two people say they saw him jump. There were two witnesses to Kruze's suicide jump too. How convenient, there are always just two witnesses, and don't anyone try to tell me that a cult of this size, with this amount of power, money, and determination could not find a couple of willing liars to say they saw him jump, or say that they saw Kruze jump. We are dealing with a psychopathic elite here.
video:

Check out this brief video of the masonic Toronto Police statues at the main downtown Toronto Chiefs of Police building and the obelisk with the little boy pulling it in this video: (guess they fixed HIS little red wagon!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7j7rklvTjE

In the context of the emerging prospect that a cult of masonic gay pedophiles is regularly chucking male teenagers off the Bloor St. viaduct and calling it 'suicide' with a little help from their friends:
The following article was printed in one of those large-circulation 'gay friendly' fliers that few seem to read, and it lingered salaciously on the pain and horror of the fall.
Toronto news flyer NOW gloats over gory deaths of Kruze, AuYeng
(bodies landed on playing field of 'Art School', school described by student as "A walking gay pride parade.")
Gruesome little article on how the kids from Rosedale Secondary 'Arts' School regularly enjoy the 'theatre' of watching people jump from the adjacent Bloor Street Viaduct (bridge) towering above the school. Bear with me here, because it gets even stranger: First the article, and a link to the article, followed by my comments and insights. This article was printed, take note of the date, just weeks after Ken Auyeng was found dead.


To get an idea of the type of flyer that NOWTORONTO is:

[two examples of the type of material printed in Now (ultra-'progressive' homosexual advice columns:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/current/savage.php
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2006-10-12/savage.php)


Now to get an idea of the type of school that Rosedale Heights School of the Arts is ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosedale_Heig...ool_of_the_Arts)
*********From an article in Eye Weekly(June 2005)


http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_0...-prideprom.php
http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/images/eye-weekly-logo.gif
Notice the name of the paper : Eye Weekly (all seeing)
Pretty in Pink
BY ALLISON MARTELL
Last Tuesday, June 21, queer youth from across the Greater Toronto area gathered at Buddies In Bad Times Theatre for the tenth annual Pride Prom.
The theme was "A Midsummer Night's Prom: A Decade of Pride and Magic." Students from other schools have also pitched in to organize -University of Toronto Schools coordinates decorations and Ursula Franklin Academy helps with outreach Carmen Vazquez is a student at Rosedale Heights.
"It's a walking pride parade.", she says of her own school, Rosedale Heights.

Excerpted from NOW flyer's article that specifically references the broken bodies of Martin Kruze and Kenneth Au Yeng:

http://www.earthessentials.com/images/press/nowToronto.gif
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/17/...s/feature.html

'there's an almost festive, ferris-wheel quality to the design of the steel girders that spin out of its concrete piers.'

'some 10 people a year (allegedly) choose to leap from some part of its 1,680-foot span'.

'You will die when you hit. At contact, you will be moving at approximately 61 miles an hour.'

'It is certainly a practical choice, definitely high enough to do the job, but I like to think it's an aesthetic, theatrical choice, too.''

'the bodies often land on the school's playing field, and kids have run down before the authorities arrive'

'It can be quite change in lesson plan when a class gets to see someone ' (Rosedale Heights 'art' school kids)

'If he landed on his head (which is fairly common), there would be massive damage to the skull and brain, possibly including the bursting of the skull.'

'However, since "all parts of the body hit the ground eventually," he would likely also suffer broken arms or legs, or fractured ribs, or spinal damage.'

'One must also take into account the effects of very sudden deceleration on the body's internal organs. They will not all decelerate at the same rate, so there will be significant "shearing and rupture" inside the body.'

'We were lucky that Martin Kruze jumped during the teachers' strike.'

' No one saw Kenneth Au Yeung (the St. Michael's choir boy) jump .'

'a sort of curtain call, at least for the body, which is almost always found and can appear before its public, perhaps its formerly less than adoring public, to provoke one last frisson of terror and dismay.'

The above was printed shortly after the two young men had died supiciously, i and it lingers salaciously on
the pain and horror of the fall, and seemingly takes some pleasure in noting that the deaths of young Martin and Ken had certainly made SUCH a mess, such an ugly mess, but at least the 'less than adoring' students in the 'walking gay rights parade' Rosedale Heights School were not 'provoked to dismay' by it's appearance.
Notice the dehumanization. The grieving have their departed love reduced to an 'it', in the case of 'homophobe prankster' Au Yeung, and troublemaker Martin Kruze, their deaths a 'theatrical display' and their personage reduced to a 'curtain call ', little more than a mound of 'shearing and rupture' and 'burst skulls' , intended to provoke dismay. While the families were still grieving.

So here we may have the final picture. Au Yeng and Kruze made waves, and the cult may have not only killed them, but also chosen to place both bodies on the same spot beneath the (Bloor St) . Prince Edward Viaduct bridge,on the grounds of Rosedale School, an arty school for the privileged teen children of Toronto's 'progressive' dancers and actors and artists scene, described by students as a 'walking gay pride parade.' (AuYeng was a Christian Catholic choir boy too (St. Michael's Choir School) Another bit of delicious irony and another possible motive for whoever decided to place him there.
Then, just weeks later, that gloating, and gruesome little article appeared in NOWTORONTO.

Also, if you go to Google Earth and have a look at Rosedale Heights where the bodies were found, you will find that that the bodies could have easily been driven in by car and placed beneath the bridge.

Martin Kruze is said to have suicidally 'jumped' from the massive Bloor St. viaduct bridge to land on the grounds of Rosedale Heights Art School below ,
during the Ontario teacher's U_nion general strike , and therefore no one was inside the Rosedale Heights school (on the grounds of which his body was found), to actually see it. Only two people claim to have witnessed it.

What is odd is that Kenneth Au Yeung jumped from exactly the same spot on the same bridge, but this was on a school day. The school holds over 1200 students and faculty and staffers, yet not one person at Rosedale Heights school saw Au Yeung jump. Again, as in the case of Martin Kruze's alleged suicide jump, only two people on the bridge claim to have seen it.
Oddly, both young men were found in exactly the same spot below the bridge, said to have jumped from the EXACT spot. What are the odds of both men jumping from the identical spot on the bridge months apart.

Another oddity is that the teachers u nion strike was by the same Ontario teacher's u_nion which now happens to own the controlling interest in MLSE, the Toronto Maple Leafs, and the new Air Canada Center.)
the same teacher's u_nion that has a masonic lamp as its logo:
http://www.politicalresources.net/canada/osstf-ca.gif
which is the same type of lamp in the national press club logo (the founders of Bohemian Grove)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/010105grove16.jpg

The same u_nion that Hodson and the principal were members of, and the principal was the last person that Au Yeung was known to have been with alive) What really happened to Yeung that afternoon? He was in a secret meeting with two members of two masonic unions (police and teacher's ), in trouble for connecting an employee of the masonic teacher's u_nion to the crimes of the masonic Leaf's organization.
*********
Another thought: Who was hiring all of these pedophiles to work at Maple Leaf Gardens? Three overt and active pedophiles working there all at the same time? Sounds fishy to me , except when you note that Leafs owner Ballard himself was a pedophile:

this out just ten months ago:



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...lard20060310....
Leaf owners settle with woman over Ballard accusations
Last Updated: Friday, March 10, 2006 | 4:05 PM ET CBC News

The lawyer for a woman who says Harold Ballard sexually abused her as a child is crediting the current owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs for settling the case out of court.

--------


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...thestar/Layou...


MLSE comes to terms in suit involving Ballard

Now living in King City, the plaintiff, who was identified in court documents only as "R.M." alleged that Ballard first abused her in 1963 when she was 10. Her uncle worked as a painter at Maple Leaf Gardens. Ballard died in 1990 at the age of 86 and his estate wouldn't be included as a defendant because the claim was filed more than two years after his death. The lawsuit was filed on April 9, 2003.

The woman charged that the abuse occurred "generally'' on holidays and weekends in locations including Ballard's car in the underground parking garage at the Gardens, the hockey arena's rafters and the popular Hot Stove Lounge. It continued repeatedly until she was 18, she alleged.

During the years she claims she was abused, Ballard would give her tickets to Gardens events, like front-row seats to a 1965 Beatles concert. Between the ages of 16 and 18, she allegedly worked as his driver. The woman had sought damages of at least $1.95 million, including $200,000 for pain and suffering; $500,000 for loss of future income and $1 million for special and punitive damages. The complainant hadn't approached authorities or filed a lawsuit before last year, her lawyer told the Star, because Ballard threatened to fire her uncle.


Ballard was also named in a suit as an alleged abuser of a male, his estate was sued on the basis that Ballard knew what was occurring at the MLG and allowed it to happen :


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...931360223_96/...
'Former Toronto Maple Leafs owner Harold Ballard knew of the pedophile scandal at his Gardens hockey arena and once sexually propositioned a boy, according to a new lawsuit.'

----------
I mentioned Red Kelley's Pyramid Power craze in the context of proof that the Leafs organization was into masonic ritual, and also in the context of showing people that Harold Ballard was not the 'christian conservative establishment type' that a lot of people seem to think he was. If he were , he never would have tolerated the coach of his team being featured live on Hockey Night in Canada placing little pyramids under the Toronto Mapleleaf's player's bench. Ballard was notoriously obsessive about controlling every aspect of the arena, the team, and even the league. He LOVED pyramid power because he was a masonic new ager into the occult, and tended to surround himself with people who shared his interests. Ballard was into this stuff BIG TIME

[hunkahunka]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Viaduct


At the time of the construction of the viaduct, suicide was not considered to be a major social issue, and as such the bridge design did not include any means for the prevention of suicides. As suicide became more prevalent in society, and with an increase in the city population, the Prince Edward Viaduct became a magnet for suicide, as people could easily jump over its short railings. This not only posed a risk to the lives of the jumpers, but also to the traffic underneath, which was in danger of being hit by a falling body.

With over 400 suicides, the Viaduct ranked as the second most fatal standing structure in the world, after the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. A 1997 report from the Schizophrenia Society of Ontario cited the average of "one person jumping from the bridge every 22 days". However, over its 79 year lifespan to that date, the bridge actually averaged only one suicide every 72 days (79 x 365/400). After years of controversy, the bridge's reputation as a "suicide magnet" eventually led to the construction of a suicide barrier called the Luminous Veil. The bridge has had zero suicides since the construction of this suicide barrier. The Jacques Cartier Bridge in Montreal, Quebec is now the leading site for suicides in Canada.


The Luminous Veil

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Toronto_PEV_Sunset.JPG/175px-Toronto_PEV_Sunset.JPG
Prince Edward Viaduct at sunset

Main article: Luminous Veil

Designed by architect Derek Revington and engineers at Halcrow Yolles, and completed in 2003 at the cost of C$5.5 million[2], the Luminous Veil consists of over 9,000 steel rods, 12.7cm apart and 5m high, stretched to cantilevered girders to function as a suicide barrier.[3] At the same time as the construction of the Luminous Veil, the bridge also underwent a renovation with the water proofing and concrete deteriorations being replaced. While awaiting approval of the barrier and during construction, which was subject to numerous delays, 48 to 60 suicides took place at the bridge.[2][3] Since completion of the barrier, there have been no suicides

Appearance in popular culture

* The construction of the bridge was used as a setting for the historical fiction of Michael Ondaatje's novel In the Skin of a Lion.
* A scene from the movie Resident Evil: Apocalypse was filmed on the Viaduct.
* The song War On Drugs by the Barenaked Ladies was inspired by, and refers to, the Viaduct.
* The humorous song Anything could happen by Bruce Cockburn opens with "You could have gone off the Bloor Street Viaduct".
* The bridge plays a key role in the play In Gabriel's Kitchen by Salvatore Antonio, which is set before construction of the Luminous Veil.
* In a Degrassi Junior High episode titled Dog Days, the character Stephanie Kaye contemplates jumping off the Viaduct to commit suicide. Her brother Arthur later talks her out of it.
* In the Spoons music video for "Romantic Traffic", lead singer Gordon Deppe looks out from the Viaduct as the TTC subway train he is in passes through it.
* The film Saint Monica, set in Toronto, prominently features the Viaduct.
* The song "National Hum" by The Constantines refers to the construction of the Luminous Veil: "Your mayor is raising fences to keep bodies off the Don Valley Parkway."

See also:

Monarchy in Ontario

Interesting that this is called the 'Prince Edward' viaduct

[hunkahunka]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/1index.html

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/SandC.jpg

http://www.canadiansafeschools.com/content/documents/Image/partners/logo-torontoPolice.jpg
masonic Toronto Police logo

'on the square'

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/triangle_eye.jpg

http://www.axisgear.ca/cms_images/Toronto%20Police%2006.jpg
Toronto Police t-shirt

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/d1691e6a-01ea-412e-a6f2-4b7130164633.jpg
This was once a Masonic Temple and is now the offices of CTV television in Toronto.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/292592555_fd522cf136.jpg?v=0
Here is the building shot from another angle, with the MTV logo (24 hour cable rock video channel) clearly visible above the original 'masonic temple' cornerstone.

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20060321/160_MTV_masonic_060321.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/163230832_0dbef2143d.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2008/20080209/html/order_canada.gif


Interesting that Toronto Maple Leafs owner Steve Stavros , who owned the Leafs at the time that these teens were being found dead beneath the Prince Edward Viaduct, was given the Order of Canada, while Queen Elizabeth is the sovereign of the Order of Canada, and the award is presented by the Queen's representative to Canada, the Governer General.


Order of Canada
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b2/Officer_of_the_Order_of_Canada_%28female%29.jpg/476px-Officer_of_the_Order_of_Canada_%28female%29.jpg

The Order of Canada comprises the highest civilian honours within the Canadian system of honours, with membership awarded to those who exemplify the order's Latin motto, taken from Hebrews 11:16, desiderantes meliorem patriam, meaning "They desire a better country."[1]
The Canadian monarch, at present Elizabeth II, is Sovereign of the order, and the serving Governor General, Michaëlle Jean, is its Chancellor and Principal Companion. Appointees into the order are selected by an advisory board and formally inducted by the Governor General

The Prince Edward Viaduct was named after Prince Edward, who later became Duke of Windsor


very interesting article:
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3683
The British Occult Secret Service

Certainly the Duke of Saxo-Coburg, formerly Prince Edward, a grandson of Queen Victoria, had willingly embraced Nazism. In fact Hitler had appointed him as the head of the German branch of the Red Cross that was responsible for exterminating the mentally sick and physically disabled.


Leafs owner Stavros was also a member of the Knights of Malta

http://www.imosh.com/NECKLACES/images/RN876%20MALTESE%20CROSS%20BIG.jpg
Maltese Cross

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Galleries/Sevilleholyweek/image9.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/460491308_c083c6db67.jpg

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/explorers_history/Iron_Cross_1st_Class_1914.jpg

http://www.3rdreichmilitaria.com/prodimages/otheritems/6990.jpg

[sunya]

a serious researchers would at least have read springmeiers work before or after they keep on posting those links.. especially if one of their favourite words seems to be ''balanced''

I've read the entire e-book that you posted in the other thread, as well as the extracts in this one. If you feel there is a lot of distinct information in his other works then I shall have to get to them. As to the articles I referenced, all I know is that they were linked from Wes Penre's website (http://illuminati-news.com/), which I have found to be a good source of information, including earlier interviews with Springmeier. Penre isn't jumping to conclusions, and neither should we.

oh btw, this has been discussed long before you even showed up on the thread, it's not like you brought that to our attention.As I recall you mentioned in passing that he was in jail, yes. That's it. I didn't just click to the back page and start posting you know.

lol.. hmm.. where to start ? first off springmeiers work shows the same general theme as all the other works and testimonies on MK. like Svali, O'Brien, Taylor and so on.. so much to his word is the gospel :rolleyes:Sure, it's fascinating stuff. If there were a solid core of truth to it one would expect correspondences. If there were attention-whoring going on one would expect them to parrot eachother's ideas. It's such a fringe topic that it's hard to know who to trust.

secondly, the only ''critical'' posts that got ignored were mostly yours simply cos you keep babbling on about the same things.. you know, things that people who have done even basic research on MK would dismiss as ridiculous.Yeesh, have you forgotten that we're dealing here with a subject that virtually everyone would describe as 'ridiculous'? Aren't we as truth-seekers supposed to take the moral high ground rather than fling the poo straight back?

you see there's a difference between serious debate and half assed but surprisingly persistent ''debunking'' attempts as far as i'm concerned. ;)

You know I really haven't noticed the 'debate' in this thread. For the most part it's been a merry old procession of 'sign of silence - no talk trigger', any number of grasping linkages between disparate things, a bit of mandatory Crowley-hate, followed by someone injecting some scepticism and being pounced upon or ignored.

Allow to me to try and ground this thing a bit.

Cobain was murdered. Plenty of evidence for this.

Cobain was narcoleptic, lived under a bridge, worked as a rentboy. Unproven.

Courtney Love is a cold-blooded solipsist. Check.

El Duce was a crazy mofo who died suspiciously soon after talking to Nick Broomfield. Check.

The CIA have a long and continuing history of mind-control experiments using drugs and other techniques. Well-known.

There's a web of connections running between high-profile figures in government, media, organised crime, secret services and the entertainment industry throughout the era of 'popular culture'. Well-known. There was a link posted to a light-hearted article on this if anyone can find it.

Celebrities show a marked propensity to become involved in fringe organisations like Scientology, the Church of Satan, etc. It is also common for them to adorn themselves with surprisingly esoteric symbols (Beckham being the classic example). A small but significant minority of celebrities report some kind of child abuse in their lives. Intriguing but inconclusive.

Child abuse is endemic throughout the western world. Clearly.

Pedophile rings have been linked to people in high places, as shown in this documentary (http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=boystown+documentary&www_google_domain=www.google.co.uk&emb=0&aq=2&oq=boystown+#). A steady stream of stories comes out relating to Bohemian Grove and other Illuminati meeting places and their propensity for males of the young variety. The Catholic Church continually denies and obstructs well-proven allegations of child-abuse. Worrying.

This unclassified FBI file (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/FBI_document_reviews_symbols_used_by_pedophiles) shows the 'Boy Lover' spiral, the 'Girl Lover' heart-within-heart (identical to the Walls ice cream symbol) and the 'Child Lover' butterfly. Hunka and Brown dug up a wealth of examples that could imply deliberate placement of these symbols in the public domain. Also interesting is the connection between the butterfly symbol and Project Monarch, alleged by 'recovered victims' to be the child-oriented arm of MK-Ultra.

A lot of people like to get butterfly tattoos. Gay people like butterflies. Meh.

Popular culture has become increasingly sexualised and this is aimed at a younger and younger audience. Would be consistent with an agenda pushing some kind of mind-control or ritual work. Would also be consistent with simply 'shaping tomorrow's consumer'.

Other alleged 'triggers': rainbows, Alice in Wonderland, the Wizard of OZ, etc. There are many ways to explain the prevalence of symbols in the world, including synchronicity, archetypes, memes, etc. Then again the stuff dug up on this thread shows an extraordinary number of references to the Alice and Oz themes. What's the implication though? Are we to believe that millions of ordinary children are serially raped or otherwise tampered with, then later need to be continually 'triggered' to achieve, um, what exactly? Fairly unnecessary just to achieve compliance from the citizenry. It's well documented in the psychological literature that human beings are very predisposed to bow to authority. Add in targeted media, advertising and propaganda campaigns and it's a slam-dunk.

We have first-person testimony from those who allege to have escaped from being 'complete mind-control slaves'. We can only really go with our subjective judgements on this since none of what gets put forth consititutes hard evidence. Please correct me if I wrong there. I've heard Bryce Taylor's information. Seeing Cathy O'Brian speak sets off my bullshit detector. I've read Svali's story and the Springmeier extracts that have been posted. We have this common theme of a man 'saving' a woman by 'deprogramming' her, then parading her around the lecture circuit. Where exactly are all the others that could have been saved using these deprogramming skills? Something about the whole area seems off-kilter to me, though there could well be accurate information coming out of it. That said, the information could be used to program someone as well as to deprogram someone so it's hard to know what the motive is.

Other possible evidence of mind-control: 'lone nut' assassins; this strange footage of Bill Clinton (http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=clinton+mind+control&emb=0&aq=0&oq=clinton+mind+#); suicide bombers; claims of 'super-soldiers' (http://projectcamelot.org/duncan_o_finioan.html); cults; rhetorical techniques used at political rallies. And so on. Lots of suggestive stuff. Lots of good research and ideas. Also lots of noise and unfounded speculation.

[hunkahunka]

Controversial gay marriage crusader and member of parliament Belinda Stronach, who crossed the floor to betray her party and join the Liberals
to keep them in power, married Toronto Maple Leaf Tie Domi.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/07/AR2006120701684.html


Canadian Prime Minister Loses Bid to Revisit Gay Marriage Law

http://www.citynews.ca/images/2007-06/jun2307-stronach.jpg

'On the House floor Thursday, Liberal member Belinda Stronach said that "the prime minister and his government owe it to Canadians to state definitively today: Is this the last time" Parliament will have to vote on the issue? "We are talking about people, our friends, our neighbors, our fellow citizens, people who love each other and want to spend their lives together."





http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/may/05051702.html
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/files/cartoon/jan2805c.jpg

Pro-Gay Marriage Belinda Stronach Betrays Conservatives and Joins Liberal Party


http://www.thesunblog.com/sports/domi-060919get.jpg
Retired Toronto Maple Leafs star Tie Domi


http://www.pulledmygroin.com/images/blinda_stronach_tie_domi.jpg
photo: Retired Toronto Maple Leafs enforcer Tie Domi with new 'life partner' Belinda Stronach


http://www.thepinkseats.com/node/194

An update on the Domi/Stronach story according to a report in the Toronto Star and the Canadian Press:

In court documents filed last week, Leanne Domi alleged her husband offered her a $2.5 million home and cash offer if she would keep Stronach's name out of the proceedings.
Though it is not necessary to name names in the application for cases of adultery, the first line of Leanne's allegation reads: "Tie Domi has committed adultery with Belinda Stronach."
Shortly before divorce proceedings between Tie and Leanne Domi were to begin this morning in a downtown courtroom, lawyers said the couple had reached an interim settlement. The negotiated consent order includes agreements on giving child custody to the mother, payment of her legal fees and a restraining order that states Tie Domi is to “be restrained from molesting, annoying or harassing Leanne Domi or from communicating with Leanne Domi.” Leanne Domi was given primary custody of the couple’s three children at their home, where Tie Domi is not allowed to visit, except to collect belongings and pick up the kids for visits. Until child and spousal support is settled, Tie Domi is to pay for any costs related to the home, schooling and recreational activities; $25,000 for Leanne Domi’s legal fees; and $10,000 so his total worth can be calculated. She is seeking $15,246 in monthly child support, $30,000 in spousal support, and $250,000 to hire lawyers and experts for the divorce proceedings.
Ouch. Sure hope Tie's new broadcasting gig at TSN pays well. Domi is gonna be down to his last dime-i after Leanne's through with him.

Ford Motor Company has been exposed as one of the biggest sponsors of the gay agenda , through the Ford Foundation (see www.boycottford.com), and a massive subsequent consumer boycott resulted in Ford losing a record $12.7 billion in 2006.

http://www.assemblymag.com/CDA/Articles/Industry_Headlines/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000039775


Frank Stronach, Belinda's father , owns Magna International, the largest supplier of automobile parts to Ford. Magna International recently lost a bid to buy the Chrysler corporation.

[drael]

http://www.freewebs.com/theheartlanguage/Dots.jpg

[sunya]

http://www.freewebs.com/theheartlanguage/Dots.jpg

So the one on the right's the good one because of creativity.

Amirite?

[hunkahunka]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.ht


The Mystery Religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, India and Babylon helped lay the foundation for occultism, meaning "hidden knowledge." One of the earliest writings giving reference to occultism is the Egyptian Book of the Dead, a compilation of rituals explicitly describing methods of torture and intimidation (to create trauma), the use of potions (drugs) and the casting of spells (hypnotism), ultimately resulting in the total enslavement of the initiate.[1] These have been the main ingredients for a part of occultism known as Satanism, throughout the ages.
The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations was set up in London in 1921 to study the "breaking point" of humans. Kurt Lewin, a German psychologist, became the director of the Tavistock Institute in 1932, about the same time Nazi Germany was increasing its research into neuropsychology, parapsychology and multi-generational occultism. Interestingly, a progressive exchange of scientific ideas was taking place between England and Germany, most notably in the field of eugenics: the movement devoted to "improving" the human species through the control of hereditary factors in mating. The nefariously enigmatic union between the two countries was bonded, partly through the Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society which consisted of many high ranking officials in the Nazi party and British aristocracy.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/09/25/swastika_lead_wideweb__470x289,0.jpg
Traditional ... Indian children light candles forming a swastika - the Hindu symbol of prosperity.

The swastika has an extensive history. The motif seems to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia. The swastika is used in religious and civil ceremonies in Hindu countries (especially Nepal and India). Most Indian temples, entrance of houses, weddings, festivals and celebrations are decorated with swastikas.[/B]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/139365724_a0b48ee38c.jpg?v=0

http://bp0.blogger.com/_jeZrspLGdC4/SHqxW62RkCI/AAAAAAAAAxc/tto4wEzUzKM/s400/ganesha_swastika.jpg
Lord Ganesha with swastika to (our) left of his head

And then there's the Tantric painting below, depicting a monkey goddess performing fellatio upon Lord Ganesha while menstruating into a cup made from a human skull:

http://souljerky.com/_media/tantric_ganesha/tantric_ganesha_fellatio.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X3PZSZ8QL._AA280_.jpg
Lesbian country singer K.d. Lang starred in this lesbian film called 'Salmonberries' (later received the Order of Canada, along with abortionist Dr. Henry Morgentaler)
http://www.cootv.de/filme/salmonberries/Salmonberriespic.gif
http://lesbian-films.com/photos/salmonberries3.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeV/jpg/UnleashingCover.jpg

Bimstein, Louis M., also known as Max Theon and Aia Aziz. The son of a Polish Rabbi, Bimstein traveled in nineteenth century Egypt and became a disciple of the Coptic Initiate Paolos Metamon, under whom he became the Grand Master of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light. Bimstein later married the trance medium Mary Ware and became the conduit of “The Cosmic Philosophy.” Virtually every modern occult movement, from the Theosophical Society to the followers of Sri Aurobindo in India, owe him a debt in their origins. Bimstein was a High Initiate, quite a mysterious person


Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, better known as Madame Blavatsky, who founded a curious religious group in 1875, known as the Theosophical Society. The message of the Theosophists was an eclectic blend of Hinduism, Buddhism and Western esotericism, with the legend of Atlantis thrown in for good measure. In many ways, the Theosophists were an early version of "New Age", and their society was quite successful until about 1930. Although founded in the United States, the Theosophical Society soon moved it's headquarters to Adyar in India.

[hunkahunka]

video:

GLENN MULLIN is a scholar of Tibetan Buddhism and author of over a dozen books on Indian and Tibetan Buddhism. For 12 years he lived in the Himalayas, studying under many of Tibet’s greatest spiritual masters including the present Dalai Lama.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=496313896980485049&ei=Uuo2Sb2rF4ig-AHUvfSkCQ&q=tibet+tantric&hl=enThe connection to Tibet and cannibalism could have come from the use of human remains in Buddhist religious rites (thigh bone trumpets, skull bowls), the meditation on a corpse throughout decomposition, and the older practices of the Bön religion. Ritual cannibalism also exists in some Hindu Tantric sects in India.
I witnessed a Sadhu of the Aghori sect snatch a piece of human flesh from a cremation fire in Varanasi and put it in his mouth. It was met with awe from those present.
in Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God (1973) and Cults of the Shadow (1975). As with Crowley, the Eighth degree deals with masturbation and the Ninth degree with heterosexual sex while the Eleventh degree, in contrast with Crowley’s system, does not deal with anal sex, but with heterosexual sex during which the woman is menstruating. According to Grant, Crowley was not aware of the Tantric theories on the importance of the female sexual fluids, which Grant calls kalas. Grant describes the kalas as psycho-sexual secretions of the Tantric suvasini, and goes on to state that there are 16 different kalas that practitioners of sexual magic deal with and that these form the bases, together with the male fluids, of the Elixir. The kalas refers in the Tantras ’specifically to the vaginal vibrations brought on by an intensification of ritual procedure during the performance of the Kaula rites’. (16) As mentioned, Grant dismissed anal sexual practices as pertaining to the Eleventh degree, and instead attributed the Eleventh degree to sexual magic in connection with menstruation, in which woman is connected to the twenty-eight day lunar cycle:

The sun and the moon are the basis of these 16 emanations. In the human organism they are the male and the female. Their energization and polarization produce kolas that flow from the female genital outlet at specific stages of the dual lunation which constitutes the 28 day cycle of the lunar month. (17)

The importance of Tantra and the mysteries of the kalas to Grant’s form of sexual magic cannot be overstated. According to Grant, the sole object of his Typhonian Trilogies is in fact ‘to present the arcane science of the kalas in terms of the Western Mystery Tradition’. (18) With that, the development of the sexual magic of the Typhonian O.T.O., as expressed in the works of Kenneth Grant, comes full circle with the earliest references to sexual magic published in the Jubilaeums-Ausgabe Der Oriflamme (1912): the Eastern origins of the O.T.O.’s sexual magic hinted at in Der Oriflamme (although these origins must be considered to be spurious) become a fact in the sense that the secret instructions in sexual magic are combined with Tantric teachings. That way, the sexual magic of Kenneth Grant is an illustrative example of Neo-Tantra.http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/videos/drv100/v157/v15718vslvs.jpg


Ms Lang has also developed in a spiritual sense after becoming a practising Tibetan Buddhist in 2000. She says she had always gravitated toward the Buddhist philosophy, but in 2000 found her teacher. She explains the significance of that event through the analogy of "you may always have a car in the driveway, but not necessarily the key". She explains to 702's Richard Glover how Buddhism has changed her life and her music making.
She also discusses her views on China and Tibet and whether a boycott of the Olympics would be effective.

Lyrics to Constant Craving, by k.d. lang

Even through the darkest phase
Be it thick or thin
Always someone marches brave
Here beneath my skin

Constant craving
Has always been

Maybe a great magnet pulls
All souls towards truth
Or maybe it is life itself
That feeds wisdom
To its youth

Constant craving
Has always been

Craving
Ah ha
Constant craving
Has always been

Constant craving
Has always been
Constant craving
Has always been

Craving
Ah ha
Constant craving
Has always been
Has always been
Has always been
Has always been
Has always been
Has always been


Lang's intimate, woman's world of desire and longing is distilled to purity on "Constant Craving". "It's the most personally revealing record I've ever made," she said. "The writing is totally autobiographical, naked and real." Written by lang and the producer Ben Mink, it grapples with one of pop's more metaphysical topics: the need to be in love. "Maybe a great magnet pulls all souls towards truth/ Or maybe it is life itself that feeds wisdom to its youth," she yearns. "I'm talking about constantly craving this person I'm in love with," lang explained to one interviewer. "But I'm also talking about why I feel I need another person."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwlEpOgP7q0

[faulconandsnowjob]

Ok, this thread was really interesting before when it was about CIA & mind control, but now I find it kind of offensive. Hindus & Buddhists are cannibals? Please. What happened to Kurt Cobain? Maybe he was sacrificed by some Hindus like in "Help!"? Kalilli! lol

http://beatleshelp.50megs.com/summary/caps/06_ringo2.jpg

[sunya]

Is that what he's on about now? I gave up reading hunka's posts probably about the same time he stopped reading anyone else's.

Come to think of it, he was probably 16 at the time, running around the internet spraying 'HOMO SEX SUX' on message boards.

:p

[drael]

Ive found a new source of everyday day laughs.

[americana]

Why don't you "grinches" go and spam some other threads?

Have a heart. I would say that many people who post on this thread are hurting and are figuring things out. Why do you post inane, nasty comments that don't further the discussion?

[sunya]

Why don't you "grinches" go and spam some other threads?

Have a heart. I would say that many people who post on this thread are hurting and are figuring things out. Why do you post inane, nasty comments that don't further the discussion?

I thought a bit of humour might help stop the flame war that was breaking out. Oh well.

[miss_splitfoot]

Why don't you "grinches" go and spam some other threads?

Have a heart. I would say that many people who post on this thread are hurting and are figuring things out. Why do you post inane, nasty comments that don't further the discussion?

the only spam is the crap Hunka keeps posting that has sod all to do with the thread topic.

who's hurting? this is a conspiracy theory forum, not an agony aunt site. the comments aren't nasty, they are what people are thinking (rightly so). NOTHING posted here furthers discussion because a)anyone disagreeing with what's posted is ignored or called trolls & b)all that happens is hunka posts irrelevant, repetitive stuff every day. how many times has he posted that picture of WILDE'S? WHY does he keep posting it???

[hunkahunka]

Why don't you "grinches" go and spam some other threads?

Have a heart. I would say that many people who post on this thread are hurting and are figuring things out. Why do you post inane, nasty comments that don't further the discussion?

hundreds upon hundreds of people are reading this thread, and the information is of a controversial nature, so naturally there will be people who are upset by that.

[sunya]

hundreds upon hundreds of people are reading this thread, and the information is of a controversial nature, so naturally there will be people who are upset by that.

I have a lot of respect for you hunka, even if I do think you're nuts.

:p

[miss_splitfoot]

the major reason this thread is annoying (apart from it being sod all to do with the title), is there is NO debate. all that's posted is a copy & pasted chunk from whatever webpage google threw up in a "mkultra/mind control" search, then someone congratulating hunka on an interesting find.

can't someone actually debate the relevance of including the post? give their own opinions on it. you ARE allowed to disagree with things, you know. you can't believe EVERYTHING you read...or can you?


(remember, a lot of hits come from regulars to this thread coming back several times a day)

[sunya]

http://www.freesmileys.org/custom/image/grey%5E_%5Eimpact%5E_%5E4%5E_%5E0%5E_%5Emiss%20spl itfoot%20is%20right%5E_%5E.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/custom)

[hunkahunka]

Boy George faces likely jail time after a victim (a male escort) escaped rape and torture from Boy George and an accomplice by wrenching his shackles out of the wall. It has also been recently speculated that Boy George has joined Kabbalah. I have to wonder if George is not involved with programming/procuring.

This is the type of thing that might have happened to Kurt Cobain.
http://www.hagstrom.org.uk/images/Fans/KurtCobainHII.jpg
Cobain performs in front of photo of Aleister Crowley in 1989

Cobain was known to move in occult circles and indulge bisexual urges.

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/m/fashion_for_relief_210907/fashion_relief_19_wenn1583874.jpg

BOY GEORGE JOINS KABBALAH?

British singer-turned-DJ BOY GEORGE has sparked rumours he is the latest celebrity to fall under the spell of the Kabbalah, after having a huge Star of David tattooed on his bald head.

The KARMA CHAMELEON hitmaker, real name George O'Dowd, is believed to have joined the mystical Jewish religion after eagle-eyed onlookers spotted his newly decorated head as he visited London recently.

http://blogs.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/exposure/boygback.jpg

Boy George also has a gnostic/masonic G
tattooed on his neck:

http://www.nyc.com/image/users/blogs/3820.jpg

Some have speculated that the G represents a serpent or spiral

http://www.artifice-design.co.uk/gnostic2.jpg

http://www.luminist.org/images/G_L_04.jpg
Church of Gnostic Luminism logo (spiral )



Boy George faces jail for attack on male escort

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1206/1228515634916.html

O ADETUNJI in London

BOY GEORGE was warned that he faced jail yesterday after he was found guilty of falsely imprisoning a man by handcuffing him to a wall after accusing him of tampering with his computer.

The 47-year-old singer and DJ, who was tried under his real name George O’Dowd, was found guilty of attacking Audun Carlsen (29), a Norwegian male escort, at his flat in London in April. The former Culture Club singer lured Carlsen into his bedroom after a naked photo session, in which the two had taken cocaine, and ambushed him with an unnamed man.

Carlsen told a London court during the two-week trial that everything had appeared fine but the atmosphere had changed when Boy George returned to the flat after ostensibly popping out to buy milk and cigarettes. The escort said he was held and beaten by the singer, who told him “now you’re going to get what you deserve”, before being dragged on to the bed and handcuffed to a wall fixture.

Carlsen told the jury that he was left “shaking and frightened” when Boy George returned to the room with a box of leather straps, chains and sex toys, saying “now you’re going to get it”. He said he escaped after wrenching the fixture free. He said he was beaten with a chain by the singer as he fled into the street.

The two had met in January after Boy George approached Carlsen on the dating website Gaydar and hired him as a photographic model. During their first meeting – where Carlsen claimed Boy George had briefly given him oral sex – Boy George accused Carlsen of tampering with his computer. Carlsen said he seemed “wired” from cocaine and said he left the flat with £300 (€344).

Heather Norton, for the prosecution, said Boy George told police: “I wanted to find out if he was the person [who tampered with the computer].” Boy George bombarded the escort with “bizarre” and menacing e-mails accusing him of hacking into the computer, but later apologised, saying he wanted to spank Carlsen and asked for a second meeting.

Boy George did not give evidence but told police: “I asked him to come because I wanted to find out if this guy had borrowed my stuff. I got a friend there because I wanted to make sure he didn’t leave so I could check the computer and his phone. The friend was just there in case he tried to stab me or take a hammer to me.” He denied punching Carlsen or swinging a chain at him, claiming that red welts on Carlsen could have been because he was HIV positive.

In an apparently accidental allusion to one of Culture Club’s best-known lyrics, Norton asked the jury during the trial, “Did he really have to hurt him?” Judge David Radford told the court in east London: “This is a case where custody is the more likely option. The fact that your bail is being continued does not imply that this will be dealt with by a non-custodial sentence.” – (Guardian service)

http://anemicroyalty.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/boy_george_og_rosie_111679a.jpg
Rosie O'Donnell fronted all of the money and served as the producer of George's musical, "Taboo," which appeared on Broadway in 2002. After largely negative reviews, the show closed after 100 performances, losing all of O'Donnell's $10 million investment.

http://www.calendarlive.com/media/photo/2007-05/30195895.jpg
Boy George stars in 'Taboo'
http://www.alissongothz.com.br/leighbowery/xtravaganza/gallery/boy0.jpg
[B]Boy George at Taboo's backstage


check out Boy George with a less than enthused looking Rosie O'Donnel , as she watched
her $10 million descend into indulgent madness.
http://www.alissongothz.com.br/leighbowery/xtravaganza/gallery/boy_faces.jpg

[sunya]

Well that was at least readable. ;)

I wasn't aware of the Boy George gossip so it was quite interesting too. Definitely bizarre to see the trend of esoteric tattoos continuing as well.

I don't see it as at all irrelevant to be looking into other celebrities for clues to a wider phenomenon, particularly if you happen to be sold on the mind-control idea. But please, hunka, explain to me what your point is on sexuality. If you'd care to read my OP in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43763), you'll see that I consider bisexuality to be entirely normal in the modern human.

I just don't see how it is supposed to add a layer of evidence to anything. I may disagree with you, just at the moment I don't even know what you're trying to say. Is it childhood buggery that 'turns' them? Or is it programmed into them, or what?

p.s. “Did he really have to hurt him?”lol :D:D:D

[hunkahunka]

this is a scene from Boy George's musical

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK05jYY0O3U&NR=1
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

[hunkahunka]

Well that was at least readable. ;)

I wasn't aware of the Boy George gossip so it was quite interesting too. Definitely bizarre to see the trend of esoteric tattoos continuing as well.

I don't see it as at all irrelevant to be looking into other celebrities for clues to a wider phenomenon, particularly if you happen to be sold on the mind-control idea. But please, hunka, explain to me what your point is on sexuality. If you'd care to read my OP in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43763), you'll see that I consider bisexuality to be entirely normal in the modern human.

I just don't see how it is supposed to add a layer of evidence to anything. I may disagree with you, just at the moment I don't even know what you're trying to say. Is it childhood buggery that 'turns' them? Or is it programmed into them, or what?

p.s. lol :D:D:D

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oUZdxBQrL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

[sunya]

OK, I suck at doing cryptic. If you're pointing me to particular posts from earlier please to be giving me the #s.

kthxbye

[hunkahunka]

OK, I suck at doing cryptic. If you're pointing me to particular posts from earlier please to be giving me the #s.

kthxbye

I was just kidding.

[sunya]

I was just kidding.

OMG dialogue. I didn't think you'd be so forward! :o














































:confused:

[miss_splitfoot]

i'm also wondering what Hunka's fascination is with gay rent boys.

oh yeah:
kurt cobain moved in esoteric circles - PROOF PLEASE
kc indulged in bisexual urges - PROOF PLEASE

STOP SPAMMING WITH THAT PICTURE OF WILDES, PLEASE.

the show taboo is about the life of Leigh Bowery - and?

boy george has used religious symbols on his clothing since the very early 1980s. look in your culture club annual for pics of him wearing the Foundry's star of david print. masonic g? his name is GEORGE which begins with a G.

all this is as relevant as the fact he had checkerboard tiles in his hall (fact), although that might've been the taste of Marty Feldman who owned his house on Well Road before him (fact).

[sunya]

boy george has used religious symbols on his clothing since the very early 1980s. look in your culture club annual for pics of him wearing the Foundry's star of david print. masonic g? his name is GEORGE which begins with a G.

all this is as relevant as the fact he had checkerboard tiles in his hall (fact), although that might've been the taste of Marty Feldman who owned his house on Well Road before him (fact).

Yay! I'm actually learning realz thingz!

My impression was that as gossip goes, it was fairly strong that Kurt had a fling with Michael Stipe, while Courtney had one with supposedly gay Evan Dando. But that's going back a long long way in my memory and it's not something I really care about because it DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.

Unless.

The bombshell hunka is about to drop about how the reptiles are destroying us through bumsecks.

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/solipsis/popcorn.gif

[opulentview]

I will agree with what the article said about the NOI (nation of islam) there was a heavy movement of that in hip/hop in the early to mid-90s. If "they" were afraid of whites and blacks uniting as far as music, look at music today. It's all mash-ups and fusions of all types of music -- so basically they failed.

[emerald]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1092671/Im-enigma-I-love--Cliff-Richard-admits-likes-people-guessing-sexuality.html

[armoured_amazon]

the reptiles are destroying us through bumsecks.

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/solipsis/popcorn.gif

:D

[emerald]

8 Mile Actor Found Hanged

An up-and-coming actor who starred in Eminem's movie 8 Mile has been found dead in an apparent suicide.

De'Angelo Wilson's body was discovered in a room at a commercial premises in Los Angeles. It is believed he had hanged himself.

Wilson, who played DJ Iz in the 2002 movie and also starred in an episode of TV crime drama CSI: NY, is thought to have died on 26 November.

According to AllHipHop.com, Wilson.s mother did not have enough money to transport his body to the family's home in Dayton, Ohio - so friends stepped in to help out.

Wilson had also appeared in several other movies including Antwone Fisher, The Salon, and Mercy Street.

[sunya]

I thought I was pretty unshockable, but wow. I don't think anyone would forgive me for posting it, but I recommend taking a look.

Top 13 Most Extreme Album Covers in Music History (http://www.orgasmatrix.com/blog/noticias/13-most-extreme-album-covers/)

There's a thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45036) going on in the news forum about wikipedia hosting the Virgin Killer cover showing a naked prepubescent girl. Seriously how the fuck do you let your daughter model for that.

[hunkahunka]

TAVISTOCK INSTITUTE
OF HUMAN RELATIONS

by David Icke

An excerpt from "And the truth shall set you free"

Tavistock mass mind manipulation research
establishment findings are used to direct
the policies of the illuminati/freemason network.

Tavistock Institute of Human Relations, London, which, according to many books and investigators, tops the network of mass mind manipulation research establishments and its findings are used to direct the policies of the Global Elite network.

In 1921, just as the Royal Institute of International Affairs and the Council on Foreign Relations were being formed, the Duke of Bedford, Marquis of Tavistock, gave one of his buildings for research into the effects of shellshock on British soldiers in the First World War. This was carried out under the direction of the British Army Bureau of Psychological Warfare under Sir John Rawlings-Reece. A student of St John Rawlings-Reece was Henry Kissinger.

It was Tavistock, according to researchers like Eustace Mullins and others, that introduced the drug culture of the 1960s: and designed the mass bombing raids on civilians during the Second World War to break the spirit of the people. Mind manipulation and brainwashing will also be used on people useful to the Global Elite to 'encourage' them to see the world in the required manner.

The Tavistock nexus has grown far and wide and links into the Club of Rome and the Bilderberg network. It connects with the Ditchley Foundation, which was founded in 1957 by Sir Philip Adams, a long time employee of the British Foreign Office, which is in turn controlled by the Royal Institute of International Affairs and the Bilderberg group. In the United States, the Tavistock network includes the Standford Institute, the Institute for Social Relations, the Hudson Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Hoover institution, the Centre for Strategic Studies at Georgetown, and the Rand Corporation (which has Zbigniew Brzezinski among it's number). This mind control network is itself linked (with the tax-exempt foundations) into the education system, including the business and banking schools which develop methods of controlling people through the financial system..

Again the overwhelming majority of people involved will have no idea where the directives and policies really originate. The Brookings Institution in the U.S. is responsible for developing policies to manipulate the population through the money system, and so is the Mont Pelerin Society. A leading light of this and of the Hoover Institution, is economist Milton Freidman, the inspiration of the monetarism disaster introduced by those political puppets, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, in the 1980s.

You'll note also that the whole structure not only connects from the top, down; the various elements connect crossways too. There are infinitely more link-ups and organisations involved than I have mentioned in the diagram. Within most of these organisations, the lower levels will not know what they are being used for and it is important to recognise that the system of compartmentalisation and the 'need to know' principle means that the different levels are following different agendas.

At the lower levels within the CIA, British Intelligence, and the KGB, they would have been genuinely fighting the Cold War. Their agents in the field would have been spying on each other in the belief that East and West were sworn enemies. But at the higher levels, they had another agenda because they knew that the Cold War was a sham to serve Elite ambitions.

These multidimensional agendas controlled by the all-knowing Elite continue within the economic, political and military systems today and while most of the people involved in the Global Pyramid don't realise what they are part of, the mindset established at the top sets the agenda that filters down through all the levels. You could call this the 'culture of corruption' that we see so often in society, even in the lower echelons of business, the police and politics.

Throught this pyramid there is one common and all-pervading force, guide, and motivation. It decides the policy and holds the strings of those who manipulate our lives. This force is the guiding light, or rather darkness, which controls the thinking and the direction of those at the top of this Pyramid of Deceit. It is the Prisons Warders' consciousness and its principal vehicle is known to us as black magic.

[hunkahunka]

Valerie Sinason Talks to Graeme Galton, Spring 2003
Article in journal “free associations”, Vol 10, part 4, No 56, Autumn 2003, Karnac Books


INTRODUCTION

http://www.ica.org.uk/thumbnail.php?max=408&id=4205

Valerie Sinason is a child psychotherapist and adult psychoanalyst who is well known for her pioneering work with learning disabled patients. For the last decade she has also been at the forefront of the growing awareness and understanding of ritual abuse and the ways that psychoanalytic psychotherapy can be used to treat its victims. Sinason has played a key role in developing the current understanding of the psychodynamics of this abuse. This controversial work has also focussed on establishing the traumatic aetiology of dissociative identity disorder (DID) and has highlighted its link with ritual abuse. In 1998 she founded the Clinic for Dissociative Studies, which has seen more DID patients than any other single treatment centre in the United Kingdom. This interview took place on 16 April 2003, sitting in the garden of the clinic in north London.
INTERVIEW
Learning Disability

Graeme Galton: You're perhaps best known for your learning disability work, and it's now 24 years since you saw your first learning-disabled patient and I was wondering what feelings you have about your pioneering work in that field?

VS: It feels very strange because that's the field that I thought would be my only field for the rest of my life. So I have a sense of loss, despite the fact I'm still deeply involved in it, both with working one day a week at St George's Hospital and also working with learning-disabled clients who have been ritually abused or have dissociative disorders. I also have an incredible sense of pleasure that things which were seen as impossible or mad, that amount of time ago, are now really deeply accepted and established. The Government's White Paper on valuing people is now saying what we were saying 25 years ago, things that we were really seen as mad or pollyanna-ish for even considering, at best. So I have a sense of one part that is complete, in terms of the need to make something get properly into the mainstream social arena and not be marginalized.



There is sadness over the fact that although access for treatment is accepted, in principle, and it's understood that having a disability does not diminish your feelings or fantasies or thinking about it and about life, the lot of an individual with a learning disability is, in itself, not that much improved. The outer covering might be better and somebody might be in appropriate clothes for their age. They might actually have teeth, instead of having them pulled out because it was such an effort taking people to the dentist and bothering about the communication when they couldn't say where the pain was. There were hospitals that, out of what they thought was kindness, removed peoples' teeth. Of course, that led to them looking different, as well.



Now you're more likely to see well-dressed people, where their appearance doesn't carry a great signpost, `I have a learning disability'. But the emotional experience of that difference is not likely to have improved much. I'm thinking, for example, of a man who, in his institution, had no freedom to do anything over clothes. He now has a room in a house where he can choose what he wears, what he eats, what he drinks. On one level, that's a huge difference, yet his biggest longing is to be in a quiet house. As a quiet man, he has lived in noisy hospitals through his childhood and his adult life, and is now living with loud, disturbed people. His longing for himself is no nearer being realized than it was 20 years ago, even though other aspects of his life have improved.
Abuse of those with a Learning Disability

GG: You said that learning disability was the field where you expected to work for the rest of your professional life, and I'm interested in knowing what it was that led you, in that case, into the work with ritual abuse and dissociative identity disorder.



VS: The irony is, of course, that it was through a learning disabled woman, otherwise I may never have got there. It was a Swedish psychologist, Anders Svensson, ringing me at the Tavistock Clinic because of his terror at the kind of things a woman in Sweden, with a severe learning disability, was saying. He asked me to send what I'd written about abuse and disability - this is 12 years ago - and I did and he said, `That doesn't help. Have you anything on more sadistic abuse?' I sent something else. He said that didn't help. I then sent something unpublished concerning torture and he said that was closer. I felt a twinge of narcissistic injury that nothing I'd written approached anything near the subject, as well as curiosity. What could this be? He asked if he could ring me at home and I worried whether there was something really disturbed about him. There was something so palpable about his terror that I arranged for him to ring me at home.



He was working with a woman with a severe disability whom he had been asked to see because she had suddenly started self-injuring and no one understood why. She was able to show him she had been hurt and there were marks on her and so, because it was Sweden, and not England, the police were called immediately. But no DNA was taken - we still have not got to a point where that's automatic - but it was accepted she had been raped and hurt. At the same time, there was also a highly publicized recent murder of a child in Sweden that had not been solved. Anders and I began a period of, ironically, nine months, where both of us, in our unpaid time, gave an hour a week for joint discussion. For Anders it was more. He would tape the patient, send me the tape - so I could hear her intonation in Swedish, to get a sense of the emotions - and an English translation, and then phone me for an hour's supervision.



Every week the narrative of the patient would go a bit further. We put some examples in a joint chapter in the book I edited, Treating Survivors of Satanist Abuse (Sinason, 1994). For instance, the patient would say to Anders, `Mummy's cold and hard and smells'. Anders sounding shocked, `But your mother's dead'. The patient crying, `I don't know, I don't know'. In the luxury of the supervision position, I could say, `Whenever a patient says, ``I don`t know'', they do know but they don't know you can bear it. And it could be a bereavement psychosis, we don't know what it is, but you pre-empted her response by saying, ``But your mother's dead'', sounding so shocked yourself'. The next week Anders would go back, `You said your mother was cold and hard'. Then she could carry on, `Yes, but they said if I lie on Mummy, now she's dead, they won't hurt her any more, now she's dead'. Each bit where Anders could not bear it, and I supported him, the patient was then able to tell something a bit more that was even worse. I felt sick and petrified every week and I had no means, at that point, of understanding the difference between being struck dumb and confidentiality. In other words, I used confidentiality as a defence against hiding the fact that I was terrorized, even living in another country, by the traumatic secondary counter-transference. And I didn't realize.



Over the nine months, the patient, who had not had access to videos, could not read, did not come from a family that had any particular belief system that would account for these narratives, was talking about night staff taking her to all sorts of places, to churches, to cemeteries. And the way in which she tried to make sense of these events added to our sense of the authenticity, like, `Why take your clothes off in the moonlight? You can't get brown. It's not hot at night'. So we could hear, with the level of disability, her trying to make sense of it. All of this carried on with us hearing about people with cloaks, who spoke in a funny language. Just nearing the nine months, there was a moment where the patient said, `They gave me shit to eat'. Anders said, `They gave you horrible food'. The patient cried and said, `I don't know'. Again I said, `Anders, you pre-empted her. It might be horrible food but you didn't let her stay with what shit means to her'. He went back and said, `You said they gave you shit to eat'. She said, `Yes, on a plate, and dog shit too, and it made me sick and it made the little girl sick and we spat it out'.

Ritual Abuse

And that was it. Somehow, at that moment, the phrase `little girl', and the outside reality terror of the unsolved murder, brought in a child protection aspect to both of us that we could no longer dissociate from, as so many of us do when we're hearing things from an adult. Anders suddenly felt totally different, so did I. I said, `Anders, this sounds like ritual abuse'. He snapped at me, `Of course it is, but we don't have it in Sweden'. I said, `Well, we don't have it England, either'. And the moment we'd had that conversation, all her psychotic symptoms went, her self-injury went and she started improving dramatically. It was so painful, that we had been representing her denial in our combined terror. Also, something about it being named meant that I was more aware of the toll this call took on me. Richard Davies, who is now director of the Portman Clinic, ran a child protection course with me at 10:30 am every Wednesday and on this morning, just after this, he came in and said, `What's going on? Every week I see you, you look sick and you've just had a call from Sweden'. So something happened for him, to free him to notice. And I just burst into tears. He then pointed out the difference between confidentiality and being struck dumb.



He said it was really important that Anders should come to England and present at the Portman Clinic, which Anders did. He got a huge amount of support, including from my late analyst, Mervin Glasser. He went back and found a team he could trust, all of whom got threatening phone calls. It's probably been three generations of police teams that have since gone through it and all faced the same secondary traumatisation as we did. But the woman is safe. In Sweden, if you think any patient can be in danger, it's law that a safe place has to be found for them. I wish that happened here. The laws on innocence are stronger in Sweden, too. So, despite the fact the police have considered her narrative extremely correct, there has been no arrest and it's still presumably carrying on.



Then, at the end of a conference in Scotland for psychiatrists, talking about abuse and disability, I mentioned in the last sentence, `And if you think ritual abuse is a strange thing that's been invented in America, I've seen one case in Sweden and I know that's real. And I've met the woman and I've met the police'. The next day I got two referrals at the Tavistock, by health service professionals, saying they were desperate to talk about a case. I saw them the next day. As soon as the first one started walking towards me from reception, limping, I just knew instantly in my counter-transference that she was limping from torture and it was her. So the first non-disabled adult I saw, other than parents of people with a disability or parents of a child in therapy, was a health service professional, a highly intelligent woman who had gone through exactly the same thing.



As a child therapist, I'd been given sanction by the Tavistock to work with adults with disabilities. Although I hadn't had any dedicated adult training at that point, you do work with parents as a child therapist, and obviously there's something about the analysis and the rigour of that training that equips you for a whole range of things. But I wasn't an adult therapist. Now I am. I thought there's no way the Child and Family Department would give permission for me to work with a non-disabled adult. Who did I trust in the Adult Department? I rang Rob Hale, who came to see her with me and could see she was real, that it was authentic, immediately. We thought she would switch to him, but she trusted me because I'd spoken in public about it and she would not make the change. So Rob had to cover me, as a child therapist, and we worked with her together, and that was how this other work began, and one of the key reasons why I went on to do an adult training. So one severely learning-disabled woman in Sweden really totally changed my life.



GG: And that led to you treating a number of ritually abused patients at the Tavistock.



VS: Yes, Rob Hale was still in the Adult Department at the Tavistock and I was in the Child and Family Department. People suddenly started phoning and writing in. It's amazing how it gets about that somebody who can hear this exists, not that that means it's true every time, or that there isn't distortion and fantasy as well, but that there was something involving ritual that was even more terrible and frightening. In a way, calendar abuse was happening, so the actual days of the week and seasons were being used as agents of terror. If you think of families or schools where punishments were ritualised, so it's a way of adults disowning responsibility for hurting children, `It's not me, it's Friday at 4 o'clock' or, `This is punishment time'. It's a brilliant way of keeping people in terror longer, that's not just personal. So ritual abuse, as something that puts in a structure, a format, a date, a time, a procedure - whatever the belief system, or without a belief system - a ritual used for a negative, has an extra devastating impact. It so happened that, with the majority of the people coming, the nature of the ritual was either from a satanist belief system, or it was paedophiles using a satanist gloss to frighten their victims more. But, as Hereward Harrison of ChildLine pointed out, we don't care what the belief system was, whether it was true or not, the fact is the children believed it. Some of them grew up with it as a belief, having got it from the adults.



In the kind of ritual abuse we were seeing, to say what the crimes are is terrifying to people because they are not part of common knowledge. For the record, since the subject gets so charged, the crimes I'm talking about are cannibalism, induced abortions for the purpose of murder and cannibalism, necrophilia, bestiality, anal, vaginal and oral abuse, and murder. Those crimes are in addition to the severe kinds of grievous bodily harm and everything else that people know about: eating shit, drinking blood, drinking urine, they make people feel sick, eating spiders, being put in coffins for long hours with spiders and snakes. They are all things that stir up archetypes, which is why they are used, of course. Those kind of crimes are pretty unbearable ones to hear about. You are hearing about those all the time. What do you do ethically?
Department of Health Report

GG: Those are awful crimes. How many ritually abused patients did you see with Rob Hale?



VS: It was 51 that we saw altogether. I think about half of those were seen by Rob, where a psychiatric interview was needed, and then we combined later with the research project. Although he was a consultant in the Adult Department, it was the point where job definitions were getting tighter and it wasn't in his job description. But he was able to do it in his own unpaid time, and ditto me. So we did a couple of years of dealing with this work with no financial support for the time it took. As we saw more and more people, it became clear to us that these people, mostly women, were being doubly traumatized because the health service professionals they went to didn't know this existed. Even where professionals thought there was something here, they were frightened to respond in case it got them into trouble. So, similarly with the police.



A couple of years later, Rob was made director of the Portman Clinic, and all these practices involved crimes, which fitted into the remit of the Portman, so Rob was able to do this within his own paid-work time. We were also given £22,000 by the Department of Health and that paid for my sessional time and for a research assistant. The people started coming in and we were particularly wanting to look out for Munchausen syndrome. We had in mind Arnon Bentovim's research where people with Munchausen often have been abused and the distortion often comes where there was not something to deal with the pain when it first happened and it then gets displaced. We were also very aware, and I had the book on memory (Sinason, 1998) either out or being collected, that traumatized people are going to have more distortions, but that basic traumatic memory is encoded differently. We were looking at those issues before they were generally part of psychotherapists' training.



GG: What did you learn together from seeing these patients?



VS: What we learned from that study of the 51 people was profoundly disturbing: that there was no mental illness that could account for their narrative. Out of 51 people, there were only a couple where we both had serious doubts about parts of the narrative and with those it's still open to question because we did not get the police research support we wanted. Fundamentalist religious belief systems did not account for it. I think we were expecting that, by the laws of chance, there would be somebody who was so brought up with a cruel Satan in their local church, that they would go looking for a concrete one, or rather they already had a concrete one. But in our sample, only two people had actually gone to a fundamentalist church and they had only gone to that church because no one else would hear them. They did not like what happened in the church, the quite brutal exorcisms they both respectively got and the way they were seen as evil.



We sent our preliminary findings to the Department of Health, which were: no fundamentalist religion, it's not psychosis, and it's not recovered memory (they had their memories on coming to us) and the fact there was no training on dissociation for most professionals, and there were no refuges. They had all been informed and this was a very difficult ethical clinical issue that Rob and I had to hold over what was safe to put in the public sphere and in what way.



Then Rob and I were asked to go on a radio programme, and, at the last moment, Rob said he wouldn't. He suddenly got worried about the implications. We had got permission from the Department of Health because it was only to say those agreed bullet points, and I really wanted those in the public sphere because it would stop those urban myths, and Rob was now clear he wouldn't take part. I wanted to then withdraw as well, because with the splits we struggled with together, I didn't need to be the one publicly massacred. But then the producers of the programme said they would go ahead anyway because they had tape recorded things earlier. They had already tape recorded me and they had tape recorded other people. Then Rob was worried it could be worse if I was not on. So he wanted me to represent us. Then of course, the publicity could make a split: Rob Hale was not part of it, here was Valerie Sinason saying these mad things. Rob and I do laugh about this now.



Now he was director of the Portman and, meanwhile, the research money had come to its end. Rob realized he did not think the subject suitable for the Portman and the Portman Clinic did not want the subject. Had the Portman been able to include it in their clinical criteria, it would have stayed there. There would have been plenty of support and I really felt that should have been the home for it.



GG: As a result of which you set up the Clinic for Dissociative Studies.



VS: As a result of which, the contracts for the patients were still there, and Rob said, `I'll get the permission of the Trust to transfer it to you privately', because I would not drop the patients. He did arrange this, which was a big thing for him to have done. Then I discussed how I should go about it with Arnon Bentovim, who helped to explain the process of becoming an independent provider clinic and getting a consulting room and getting clinic insurance - which is different from personal insurance - getting an assessment body and sorting things out.



That really was incredibly painful for me. It was the point of the learning disability service at the Tavistock not becoming . . . not going through the path I had hoped, although, thank heavens, there now is an all-age service, so the work seeded. I'm a pretty institutional person. I was brought up loving institutions and it was a huge bereavement and, even though the Portman was a newer home, it was a small place, about three-quarters of the staff were personal friends as well, and the secretaries were wonderful. I really liked the environment and I really felt that was the place. I had never, ever wanted private patients and I had never wanted the administrative bother of starting up something of my own and it could not be private practice, it had to be a clinic structure. So I then started up the clinic and many more people began coming in for referrals.
Dissociative Identity Disorder

GG: The clinic is called the Clinic for Dissociative Studies, could you tell me about dissociative identity disorder and its relationship with ritual abuse.



VS: Yes, dissociative identity disorder means two or more personalities or states of mind that have recurring control of the body, each with their own unique way of perceiving the world. They are separate entities. This isn't due to alcohol intoxication, drugs or epileptic seizures. That's within the DSM-IV criteria.



Just as I had never come across ritual abuse until the Swedish case, I had never come across multiple personality disorder, as it used to be called. I had seen The Three Faces of Eve, and been very moved by it, like thousands of people. But it was not part of any other thinking. It came up where somebody coming for one of the Portman assessment meetings, did not turn up in the session time. Someone else had phoned to cancel the session with a totally different name. Then, when the session was totally over, the first person rang up to say they did not know where they were and they had missed their session. That was my first confusing, bewildering encounter.



So what kind of experiences lead somebody to need to operate in that way? The research from America, where, as with everything to do with abuse and trauma, they seem to be about ten years ahead, was that this was linked to trauma. More specifically, trauma linked to attachment figures, in that the child under five cannot conceive of a parent or key caretaker who is sadistic, mad or in a temporary state of not managing. The child has to think the parent is good because their survival depends on it, so they have to find another way of coping. The normal kind of fight-flight mechanisms, that for a teenager can lead to running away, or fighting . . . if you're little you can't run away outside. No one would be able to look after you, you couldn't look after yourself and therefore flight inside is the only mode of survival. So it seems to be a very creative kind of use of the imagination for the purpose of survival.



Think of stages of dissociation that we all know, not just the autopilot - how did we get somewhere when we've lost our memory of how we got there - but where there is something that frightens us. For example, a memory of school playground bullying where we seem to be slowed down somehow and yet your hearing and sight are very sharp and you have a sense of everything being in slow motion for protection. That's a sort of stage along the way. Then supposing it's you being kicked. There is then the sense of you being outside looking at that little you being kicked because it's not bearable to be there. This is the experience where people have all sorts of out-of-body memories looking down on themselves. If it's an attachment figure, and it goes on and on, then there is a point where it can't be me because my name's Mary and I'm eight, so that little girl there, she's not eight, she's five and she hasn't got parents. The next time abuse reaches a certain pitch, then that new one takes over and is fleshed out with fragments of the original personality to empower her. She then uses the creativity of the host to develop herself.



Some newspapers have mentioned claims that amazingly high numbers of people have been murdered in these rituals. Now I’m realising, through the DID work, that where people have experienced an inside person being killed, where there is no corpse to show, that still was a person, a death.



GG: Inside people being other personalities . . .



VS: Other personalities that are perceptually seen as another person. So the external figures could have been very different. We have certainly found the alleged murder of an outside person very small - well, `very small', what an awful thing to say, it's like talking about `ordinary abuse'. In terms of the kind of excited, `thousands of microwaved babies' bonkers ideas, there were something like, I suppose, an average of three murders that any individual aged 40, say, was mentioning, outside of induced abortions.



Those were murders of people on the periphery of society. Fifty bodies are found in the Thames every year that are never identified. There is an illusion we live in a society where every death is looked at. People need reminding that many of those murdered by Fred West were not even on a missing person's list. There was not even someone who cared about them enough to know they were missing. There is the idea that everyone would know if a baby was born. Who? Someone sharing a flat with somebody? You know, what do urban people know of large rural areas? Think of all the babies who were left in Ireland and other places where abortions were not allowed. Yet there remains this idea that everybody would know if someone else had had a baby and they would know if it was killed or not. Equally, a baby could be kept hidden, and maybe that's where my disability background helps - where people fear the sight of a disabled child will mean their other children won't be accepted, or won't be married, because other people will worry about the genetic inheritance. So they keep the disabled child in a room. Just like the Queen Mother's cousin, who had a learning disability, was kept away. Or just like the other prince, Prince John, with his epilepsy and mild learning disability - kept away, wiped out. Learning-disability people know how people can be kept hidden.



GG: I know you have found that ritual abuse is often part of a family network, so there are powerful attachment issues involved.



VS: Whilst you can have dissociative identity disorder from extreme emotional abuse on its own, and we really underestimate emotional abuse, the commonest group seen in America are where there's physical and sexual abuse too. We've been calling it an attachment disorder. There is controversy over this, but those of us who think that's useful language do so because concentration camp survivors, who've gone through extreme torture, do not develop DID. Vietnam vets have not developed DID. Yes, they can have amnesic states, fugues, dissociation, flashbacks, but DID seems to be where you cannot bear the nature of who the person is that's hurting you. So it's primarily for evolutionary purposes, the child's need for an adult for their survival.



Tragically, in the sample we've seen, but also in a lot of the American samples, ritual abuse of whatever kind, abuse in which there are regularities and repetitions of place, time, meaning, sometimes with a religious belief system, whether satanist or other, but where there are those repetitions around dates, and it involves family members too, is par excellence a breeding ground for DID. One of the problems there's been is that initially there was awareness of incest, families abusing their own children, then there was awareness of stranger danger, paedophilia. What has not caught on adequately and where the most serious, chronic abuse goes on, is where the two combine and you have got paedophilia in the family with outside people brought in and it is not just one parent, it is multiple perpetrators that are interconnected. Our theoretical difficulty in putting incest and paedophilia together is part of the reason why we find this hard to see.
Clinic for Dissociative Studies

GG: So that contributes to the powerful societal impulse to deny that this abuse could be going on. In this context, can you tell me about the work of the clinic at present?



VS: What I knew from the start, with a controversial subject, is something wonderful that Pearl King said, who is my supervisor and a past President of the British Psychoanalytical Society. She said that for people to be really free, to see what they are seeing clinically, they either have to be old and retired so they do not care what anyone else thinks, or they are newly qualified - unless they are relieved to be free of just one orthodoxy so they expand into it themselves. Therefore, I wanted patrons for the clinic who would be supporters for it. So I would know that if there was the twisted reporting that this subject creates in the media, where any time my name comes up you suddenly get lies from past distortions that get regurgitated, that there were patrons who would not freak out and who would understand that it came with the territory.



Pearl King, Sir Richard Bowlby and Peter Fonagy are the patrons. I see Peter Fonagy as a real renaissance figure over straddling research, the public view of treatment and the meaning of trauma on children's experiences. I also wanted an assessment team who were used to subjects which were controversial, were profoundly experienced and solid. So Arnon Bentovim, who helped to create the clinic, does the psychiatric assessment. As a lay therapist, I need a psychiatrist I trust. Rob Hale also does some psychiatric assessments of patients we have shared, which is really nice, over review. And I really trust him over that. For psychology assessments, there is Phil Mollon, who is one of the leading researchers on dissociation, memory and trauma. There is also Tony Lee, who is in the development research unit at the Tavistock, working with Professor Hobson, who sees the severely learning-disabled patients who are multiple personality. Sir Richard Bowlby has done some of the videoing, because we are seeing it all as attachment trauma, and he was a medical photographer and he has been able to do that in a most courteous way, understanding the situation, not being thrown by it. My husband, David Leevers, has also been doing a lot of the videoing and, again, somehow does not experience a secondary traumatisation and can be very pragmatic about it in a similar kind of way to Richard Bowlby. Howard Steele is doing the attachment research interviews, in that we're taking that very seriously. Brett Kahr has been working with couples affected by DID.



There's a kind of growing clinic faculty. Shahnawaz Al Haque is working with traumatized learning-disabled patients who come through the clinic, and particularly those with a Muslim background, and he's looking at the meaning of dissociation and possession and satanism within that belief system. He's also a part-time imam. Liz Lloyd, who is a psychotherapist who works at Respond with learning-disabled patients, as well as with others, who has also taken on patients and has a particular speciality of understanding body communication and the way mental pain is expressed through the body. There are also Al Corbett, former director of Respond, and Jane Kitsen from CAPP. So I have been building up a team of people, providing different responses to the client group, including even, and this does need mentioning, body therapists - people who can deal with incredible pain in the body, and that includes cranial osteopaths. One of the beauties, after the pain of separation from what I'd seen as the institution I really loved, there is the pleasure in providing treatments that would not be possible within many clinics and seeing the relief given to patients when certain support can be provided that would not be provided in other ways.



GG: What about the onward referral of DID patients from the clinic?



VS: One of the most important issues has been creating links with other therapists across the country, building up a proper referral and treatment network. Also creating links with RAINS, Ritual Abuse Information and Network Support, and LASA, The League Against Sadistic Abuse, and making links with the survivors' associations too. Given the limited number of people a small clinic can deal with personally, one-to-one, and to avoid a horrendous unethical situation of long waiting lists, we've been negotiating and meeting with different therapy trainings to see who can take these topics onboard. The training that has been most helpful, not just from individuals but from the actual core training itself, has been CAPP, The Centre for Attachment-based Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy. We've done joint training days with CAPP, and we have a direct referral system, whereby people can apply directly to CAPP for subsidized treatment, as well as get a CAPP therapist linked to supervision from the clinic. That's a very important new development. There have been people from Regent's College, such as yourself, thanks to the impact of one of our faculty consultants, Brett Kahr and his ability to take on the subject. There have also been trainees and staff from Arbours. Whilst there have been individuals from the Institute of Psychoanalysis who are playing a major part in carrying out this work and offering support and assessment, it's not there in terms of the training body.



As with learning disability, and treatment of learning disabled patients, we've found that there is a very important historical process: until the training body will accept these cases as training cases, so that the senior practitioners are getting an understanding of the problems through supervising, you do not get the safety for a junior or trainee therapist to take on this work. The fear around the subject of abuse is such that you need the authority of the training behind you.
DID Research

GG: There's a lot we don't know about how dissociative identity disorder works, is the clinic also doing formal research?



VS: We've got an amazing privileged database in terms of people that have gone through the worst experiences imaginable, allowing us access to their histories, the medical problems they have, the daily problems they have, and being interested in our joint working on this. There are a whole list of research topics on a waiting list, some of which are awaiting people's Masters degrees and PhDs. Hopefully somebody reading this might come and say, `I'd like to do a PhD on this. Would I have permission from clinic members to take this up?' What we have been looking at, amongst other things, is: How did it begin? Where does DID come from, what kind of experiences? What level of amnesia is there between states? What is the status of memory? What happens as people integrate? What is integration, or, as John Southgate and Jane Kitsen from CAPP call it, multigration? What are the different levels of pain from this experience? What is the difference between being programmed by others and developing DID as your own creative survival mechanism? What are the long-term physical problems from torture that result in patients going from one place to another for all the different bodily ailments because there is a lack of holistic responses, with very few people taking onboard the level of physical damage as a result of trauma? What is the meaning and impact of diagnosis? What are the ethical issues? So the list of research needing to be done is huge.



GG: I know that some of the patients being seen by the clinic are still being ritually abused. And this must raise important ethical issues for you as a clinician. Have you been able to get any support regarding these ethical issues from the psychotherapy or psychoanalytic professional bodies?



VS: No. We have written to them all and had acknowledgements, but had no response. Of course, how can there be if there is not enough of a body of us who have written in? I'm about to be sending off again, not just by myself, but also with other therapists from different trainings, a shared letter to say, `We are at risk, and the patients are at risk, in the absence of guidance in the ethical code'. Patients are at risk from their therapists' bodies not having a certainty around this. You see, if you have a total certainty that outside reality doesn't count, that it's inner work, it's easy.



GG: And it's the belief that outside reality doesn't count which has been the traditional view.



VS: Which has been the traditional view, yes. Although, again, where is the idea coming from that that's traditional? Freud and Anna Freud were key liaisers with police officers and barristers. Freud worked on a free association test he hoped would reveal guilt in criminal courts and wanted to do that. You find, on the whole, that Anna Freud cared a lot about child abuse and treatment of children. But then clones come in and fossilize what original pioneers did. So, yes it's traditional, but the word traditional needs close looking at. If someone is saying, `Well, I'm pregnant and the baby's going to be taken away and killed tonight'. Then what are you supposed to do? Or someone has witnessed a murder and you have told the police, which we have. You know, `Halloween is coming up. This person wants you to follow them and is saying there will be a murder'. `No'. The provision and resource needed when this is considered an unreal subject means it would only be a police officer who really had such a high moral sense who would push for something to happen. Since all the cases could turn into Fred West cases, then what's our position? `You didn't tell the police enough'. `You didn't tell the public enough'. Well, we have actually told, but that's no consolation.
Future Work

GG: How difficult. Where would you like to take the work of the clinic next?



VS: I would really like to be doing ordinary analytic work. I would really like it if social work, refuges, volunteer systems, the law, the police had taken this subject onboard, so that clinicians, myself and all the others who I meet with, were not carrying a ludicrous multiple burden. I trained as a therapist. Being a therapist and a writer are the two things I care about. I'm not good at the sort of language and sort of memory and the kind of focussed thinking needed to fight for legal change in that way. I wanted to work with the huge inner worlds which are informed by the outer world. That's what I would like, plus writing. I don't like the lack of private time. This is not to be disrespectful to the brave people ringing in, but it's part of the outrageous position that they are in, that a bit of it gets to me as well. In the absence of a refuge, in the absence of help lines that understand this topic, I'm either living an immoral life or I do not have adequate private time.



GG: On that point, I'd be very interested to know what sort of personal impact this work has had on you.



VS: It's been huge. Family and friends might tragically even be able to document it better than me, in that it changed my life. We can often talk about, and truthfully, about learning from the patient and how understanding something profound, from privileged access to another, changes us. But this is on a totally different level. I'd say it tested every friendship, every relationship, in different ways along this 12-year period.



I would say, initially, there was the issue of how people dealt with my secondary traumatisation, where I could not think, speak, anything else in any moment of private time. So everybody close to me will have suffered from not having the me that they knew. I could not have done this work with young children. Then there was the fear it brought to those close to me that their lives could be in danger, before we understood properly how these mafias operated, where the patient's terror that everyone they cared about would be hurt, which they had been brought up to believe, made them feel any therapist they went to, and any family of that therapist, and any friends of that therapist, would be hurt. Whilst we could do our best to contain the fear of the patient in the session - and look, I'm using the dissociative `we' instead of `I' at this moment - I could feel, am I doing something that's going to bring danger to those close to me? There were people who could not bear it and we stopped seeing each other. There would be parties where I would just nab somebody, talking about this subject, not realizing I was in a traumatized state. And, I'd say for one year after the first English case, I was looking under the car expecting a car bomb, I was expecting the phone to be tapped, I was treating every call to any friend as if someone was listening, which was affecting how I communicated. I was torn over any conference I was in that was publicized, did that mean abusers were going to be there? Would that threaten patients I saw? It was endless. It took a year before I thought there was an ordinary world which existed as well as this. Then there was a period of getting to grips with the subject, researching it, feeling I had a grasp of the basic themes that were repeated in different ways in everyone.



Then the next jolt came, which was when the dissociation that was noticeable in a significant minority in the Portman sample, suddenly started increasing in the groups coming to the clinic. While I stayed, if you like, distant, therapeutically distant, looking at it, intrigued by it, concerned for it, it didn't affect me personally in the way the original understanding of ritual abuse had. But once I started getting closer, particular patients were telling me my trained neutrality was an affront to all they had gone through, because if I could be trained to be like that, then I could be trained to be like their abusers or like them. It was clear that a person-centred, relational approach was the only possible approach, because nothing was safe for them. Then for me there was kind of re-traumatisation again, where private time got more and more eroded.



I'm at a curious other point now which is linked to ageing, and again it's something I owe a lot of thanks to Pearl King for. She is one of the few people to write about the impact of the ageing process - and it's because of her that people over 40 can train as analysts, or be seen over 40. This means actually noting changes in what you can manage and tiredness. So, when the menopause suddenly appeared, and I realized to my shock, as someone who's got a lot of energy and liked best working till one in the morning, and doing a lot of e-mailing and writing and phoning in the 11 o'clock to one period, suddenly I would be ready to go to bed at ten. So I'd be losing 14 to 18 hours a week, and despite all the good effort I'd put into nurturing myself, suddenly I had less time, so therefore the amount of private time work takes up is larger but this is not to do with me not having an adequate filter, it's biology that has altered it. So there's working out that as a transitional stage.



GG: I'm aware, too, that you used to write a lot of poetry, and have two published collections of poems, but you have not been doing as much creative writing lately as you used to.



VS: Yes, there's a kind of writing which comes from working through something to do with sadness. And there's different kinds of writing that come from happiness but a profound awareness of the pain of human existence. I think there's something about my life that is very happy and is very settled, and the poetry-me goes into my clinical work. And the prose writing comes out more and it's the prose writing I'm looking forward to more time for. I really want to write novels, as well. I think some of the things I've had access to would not be believed in a clinical paper. In all the clinical writing on ritual abuse and dissociation we are trying to help people start at the beginning: What is the first session like? What does it mean? Not what happens after years, which people won't be able to hear.



So, if you like, I am wiser now. Before, I would be the ancient mariner stopping the wedding guest, with the albatross, saying, `You've got to listen to this'. Inflicting trauma on colleagues who did not want to hear it. Now I can accept if you cannot hear it, you cannot hear it, there's reasons for it. People have to be given what they can manage, but the law and access to services have to be done. The subject is still in its infancy - infancy isn't the right word - it's frozen, because it's awful. The client is the evil messenger and so is any therapist or professional who says this matters.



GG: That's a powerful note to end on. Thank you very much.



VS: Thank you.
References
Sinason, V. (ed.) (1994) Treating Survivors of Satanist Abuse, London: Routledge.
Sinason, V. (ed.) (1998) Memory in Dispute, London: Karnac Books.
Sinason, V. (ed.) (2002) Attachment, Trauma and Multiplicity: Working with Dissociative Identity Disorder, Hove, East Sussex: Brunner- Routledge

http://www.clinicalpsychologyarena.com/common/jackets/weblarge/978041519/9780415195560.jpg

[sunya]

Very interesting. So the Tavistock seems to be another grey area where some people are suggesting they're there to help, while others like Mr Icke say the opposite.

[soulja]

check out this post from blah, she (he?) talks about the same stuff as we did/do in the thread. from a victims pov ;)

Sure what is happening is they are finding ways to re-program people that is suited to their geanology and so on bloodline and talents/capabilities. Its genetic engineering and EVERYTHING is used. I believe they are trying, the illuminati that is to find a way to manipulate everyone to be apart of a criminal organization and be completely ignorant that they are in it. We are told were special, allowed into clubs, mix with the very rich, who get paid just to program people in as wider spectrum as possible. The holocoust is still happening, I have a jewish alter, and a freemason alter, I have mild cat programming, familiars, such as horses, lab rats etc. Animals feel real fear, they sense danger and react to it, they are instinctive but we have been so dulled that for us its not. I am speaking out against it now. Trying to find others who also have mild DID, two people that are not programmed in the same severity wont get along well. And we are often used to make death threats to certain people, as david icke k-now-s. Alien is the biggest move they are planning to take people to other planets and threaten to turn them into other species by leaving them there, they want them to suffer if they dont conform. Gawd, I so feel for people who are trying to break out of programming, I live day by day as want to.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=660574#post660574

[soulja]

Why don't you "grinches" go and spam some other threads?

Have a heart. I would say that many people who post on this thread are hurting and are figuring things out. Why do you post inane, nasty comments that don't further the discussion?

hmm..yea why don't they ?

they think most of it is rubbish without a shred of evidence and of course hunka is a homophobic spambot.

and the few points they don't think are rubbish seems more like alibi lip service to not come across that damn obvious.

cobain was just a regular dude who wrote good songs and became famous because of it. sadly he died a tragic but unsuspicious death.

why this thread has widened the scope is beyond them too. i mean it has cobain in the title but talks about MK. wtf ??!!

splitbrains head is still spinning because of that one..

but still, both keep on posting and posting and posting..

wonder why..?

ah that's right to bring balance to this oh so unbalanced thread. that's all there is to it..paranoid who'd think otherwise.

i ''love'' how they try hard to make hunka look bad and dis-motivate him from posting. he's the one who keeps the thread going after all.

if he stops then there's a good chance the thread dies.. ;)

btw, strange that this blogger comes to almost excately the same conclusions as the main contributors in this thread.
http://pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com/

from the one eye symbolism to the mirror and the rest. strange indeed..
must be another springmeier groupie !

that was the signal sunya, time to post your fav links again..

[emerald]

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/macaulay-culkins-older-sister-dies-after-being-struck-by-car/16443

[sunya]

Soulja I posted a fairly lengthy response to you. If you'd care to continue that discussion I am more than willing.

[emerald]

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/bettie-page-1950s-pin-up-queen-dies-in-l-a/16481

[hunkahunka]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LE01L5TpL._SS500_.jpg
Breakfast with Scot: Toronto Maple Leafs allowed use of team logo/uniforms/
Air Canada Center arena in making of film about gay 11 year old boy and his adoptive gay parents.
http://i14.tinypic.com/2h4eqep.gif
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/giverdonkey/cavanaughleafs.jpg
Tom Cavanaugh plays gay Leafs player who adopts gay boy

video trailer
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8390827516410404428&ei=ZXJCSYHWH5Lu-gHNoYHXDA&q=Breakfast+with+Scot+&hl=en

http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/TAW4324.jpg
Toronto police car at gay
pride parade
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
Gay Pride Toronto


check out Toronto police' modest little digs (civil servants quarters) at Metro Toronto Police Headquarters complete with domes and pyramids:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/146872518_e339a57561.jpg?v=0
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c6/Metro_Toronto_Police_Headquarters.JPG/275px-Metro_Toronto_Police_Headquarters.JPG
http://www.kalmantisarch.com/MTPH/MTPH2.gif
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/1948925719_593dbff04b.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImages/advocate/editorial/exclusive_detail/200807/jenniferbillsx200.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2623638685_e7476f76eb.jpg?v=0
Gay Toronto officers march in pride parade
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
http://bp1.blogger.com/_k03fD3quZvI/Rc9opMwwfiI/AAAAAAAAAB8/KWs2iFR7-8Y/s320/cimg3708-375x500.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/IMGP5250.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/media/images/2005/20050531_etf_media_day_5.jpg
Toronto police officer shows off his tasers

http://www.canadiansafeschools.com/content/documents/Image/partners/logo-torontoPolice.jpg
masonic Toronto Police logo

http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/pictures/2005/06-toronto-pride/tn/cimg3709-375x500.jpg

http://mosspawn.net/images/logos/taser_logo.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

http://www.nuzzaci.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/manson-7.jpg
future official spokesperson for Taser International?
http://www.side-line.com/images/uploads/august06012007.jpg

http://celebslam.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/marilyn-manson-sweet-hat.jpg

http://russia.helnwein.com/stc/ghpicts/gh1256.jpg
http://www.tribal-celtic-tattoo.com/images/labels/Marilyn_Manson.jpg

[onourwayto2012]

I still say Manson and his band just look stupid.

[hunkahunka]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/start-world-war-2-15.jpg

http://www.kelticklankirk.com/Nazi_SS_Flag_Skull_and_Cross_Bones.jpg

http://www.aurorawdc.com/ci/taser_stinger.jpg

http://shared.buildmeaportal.com/websites/517/uploadedimages/CI517ID8724PH1.jpg

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bandpictures/My%20Extra%20Folders/Kiss%20Items/Kiss%20Make%20Up%20Kit.jpg
SS
http://fantasy411.mlblogs.com/genesimmons01.jpg

Gene Simmons [aka Chaim Witz (pronounced Haium)]was born in Haifa, Israel, and emigrated to New York City at the age of eight,[2] with his mother Florence Klein—a Jewish Hungarian immigrant

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1227628/marilyn_2Dmontreal_small.jpg

Brian Hugh Warner (born January 5, 1969), better known by his stage name Marilyn Manson

http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/mansonrippingupbible.jpg

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drd700/d775/d77561e8s65.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://media.kissonline.com/images/kissarmy1.gif

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/IMPO/MR713~KISS-Army-No-Substitutes-Posters.jpg

[emerald]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1094321/The-Mask-Jacko-Michael-Jackson-steps-bizarre-outfit-yet.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081213/ap_on_en_mo/people_tara_reid
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094243/Shock-Opera-BBC-Christmas-Day-fairytale-horror.html

[hunkahunka]

http://aryanwear.com/images/mothers_broach_.jpg

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Himmler-podium-3.png



Top SS Nazi officer Heinrich Himmler, was in charge of a scientific project called Lebersborn, which included selective breeding and adoption of children, a peculiarly large number of twins among them.[2] The purpose of the program was to create a super-race (Aryans) who would have total allegiance to the cause of the Third Reich (New World Order).

Much of the preliminary experimentation concerning genetic engineering and behavior modification was conducted by Dr. Josef Mengele at Auschwitz, where he coldly analyzed the effects of trauma-bonding, eye-coloring and "twinning" upon his victims. Besides the insidious surgical experimentation performed at the concentration camp, some of the children were subjected to massive amounts of electroshock. Sadly, many of them did not survive the brutality. Concurrently, "brain-washing" was carried out on inmates at Dachau, who were placed under hypnosis and given the hallucinogenic drug mescaline. During the war, parallel behavioral research was led by Dr. George Estabrooks of Colgate University. His involvement with the Army, CID, FBI and other agencies remains shrouded in secrecy. However, Estabrooks would occasionally "slip" and discuss his work involving the creation of hypno-programmed couriers and hypnotically-induced split personalities.

[soulja]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081213/ap_on_en_mo/people_tara_reid


Tara is another former child star whos biography reads like so many others we had in the thread.



Early life

Reid was born and raised in Wyckoff, New Jersey, the daughter of Donna and Tom Reid, both of whom are teachers and day-care center owners. She attended Dwight D. Eisenhower Middle School and subsequently Ramapo High School and graduated from alternative high school Barnstable Academy. Both high schools were in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey; Barnstable is now in Oakland. Reid has twin younger siblings Colleen and Patrick and a brother Tom.

Career

Reid began her career at the age of nine years in 1985 on the game show Child's Play. As a adult she had roles in a number of commercials for McDonald's, Crayola, and Jell-O. She grew up in New York City suburbs, and attended the Professional Children's School along with such celebrities as Christina Ricci, Ben Taylor, Jerry O'Connell, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and Macaulay Culkin. Although her break-through role was in American Pie in 1999, followers of the 1998 cult film The Big Lebowski already knew her as Bunny Lebowski. Reid spent the late 1990s appearing more often on the cover of tabloid magazines than on screen. Her extroverted social life soon gave her a reputation as a party girl; in fact, U.S. magazine In Touch Weekly, recently voted Reid "top party animal". She played that image with her role on the N.B.C. comedy-drama Scrubs as Danni Sullivan, main character J.D.'s promiscuous drinking and smoking girlfriend.

During summer 2005, she was busy filming Incubus in Romania at an assortment of clubs with Bucharest's local socialites. Taradise, her half-hour television show on the E! network, premiered in September 2005; it was canceled the following month. The show was an up-dated incarnation of E!'s well-known series Wild On, in which a celebrity host traveled to exotic places to party. In January 2007, Reid filmed a commercial with Daniel Conn for Dodo, an Australian budget telephone and Internet provider. Reid appeared in the September 2007 issue of FHM magazine.

On December 12, 2008 publicist Jack Ketsoyan said Reid checked into the Promises Treatment Center. He did not specify what addiction she was being treated for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Reid


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094243/Shock-Opera-BBC-Christmas-Day-fairytale-horror.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/12/article-1094243-02BEC535000005DC-650_468x331.jpg

Media watchdogs and the children's charity Kidscape have called on BBC2 to pull the controversial opera from its Christmas schedule over fears it could traumatise children.

The two-hour fairytale features lust-crazed parents, a knife-wielding wicked witch who hangs children in her larder before baking them in a giant oven and a final scene of cannibalism in which children feast on her flesh.

It has been marketed by the Royal Opera House as 'perfect family fare for everyone at holiday time'.

guess why i'm not suprised...

[soulja]

http://www.hollywood-celebrity-pictures.com/Celebrities/Nicole-Richie/Nicole-Richie-6.JPG

Nicole Richie’s baby shower went off without a hitch in Beverly Hills yesterday. Richie’s mom, sister, and pals Paris Hilton and Masha Gordon played host to the Wizard of Oz themed shower. The party included life-size replicas of Dorothy, the scarecrow, the Wicked Witch of the West, the tinman and the lion. There was even a Wizard of Oz cake. Which begs the question – “why?” Kind of a kooky little theme, don’t you think?

Guests included Lauren Conrad and DJ Samantha Ronson (frequent pal of Lindsay Lohan) – in all, there were 90 guests. Richie has five more baby showers planned.
http://tv.popcrunch.com/nicole-richie%E2%80%99s-wizard-of-oz-baby-shower/

http://turkeywhisperer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/51152480.jpg
angel wings tat on her back..

http://www.vipwallpaper.com/data/media/806/Nicole_Richie_Wallpaper_27418.jpg

like Bam Magera she likes the Oz theme and just like Bam she had an ''reality'' tv show on MTV, together with Paris Hilton called 'the Simple Life'

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t177/camila_duarte_ss/simple.gif

Nicole Camille Richie (born September 21, 1981) is an American actress, author,Singer, and celebutante. The adopted daughter of Lionel Richie, she is perhaps best known for her role in the reality television show The Simple Life.

Early life and family

Nicole Richie was born Nicole Camile Escovedo in Berkeley, California.[1] Her birth mother has been identified only as a woman who was employed as a backstage assistant on Lionel Richie's 1980 world tour; Peter Escovedo III was a member of Richie's band. In a November 15, 2005 CNN interview with Ryan Seacrest, Richie stated that her birth father (whom she declined to identify) was not a member of Lionel's band. Richie still speaks with her biological mother but has no contact with her biological father. Richie also denied that Escovedo was her biological father in a November 2005 Jane magazine interview.

Lionel Richie first met Nicole as a child playing tambourine on stage at a Prince concert. Richie became her guardian.[3] At age 2, Nicole went to live with Lionel Richie and his wife, Brenda Harvey-Richie, who began to raise her as their daughter. When she was five years old, Nicole began attending weekly sessions with a psychotherapist and remained in therapy throughout her childhood. She was legally adopted by the Richies when she was nine. Shortly after the adoption was formalized, Lionel's affair with another woman became public knowledge.[4] The Richies went through a highly-publicized, bitterly acrimonious split, and as a result, indulged Nicole's every whim. "Their way of making me happy was to say yes to everything I wanted, but I don't think a little girl should have that much freedom," said Richie in an interview with Vanity Fair magazine.[5] Lionel Richie remarried following the divorce, and through him, Nicole has two younger step siblings, Myles (born 1994) and Sofia (born 1998).[6]

Richie has one godmother, Nancy Davis, daughter of Marvin Davis and mother of Brandon Davis. Richie's godfathers are Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones. Jones said in a People magazine interview that he has "known [Nicole Richie] since she was a baby. She's a very smart girl. When she was younger she worked eight hours a day for eight years to become an Olympic figure skater. She's a very talented girl."

From a very early age Richie became involved in alcohol and substance abuse. Richie herself has openly admitted that she smoked marijuana at the age of 13, then progressed to cocaine a year later. At 19, she was injecting heroin

In 2005, Richie wrote a semi-autobiographical novel, The Truth About Diamonds, which was released by Bharell Jackson Publishing. The novel is loosely based on her life, but is mostly fictional. It chronicles the life of Chloe Parker, the adopted daughter of a singer who makes her way through all of the hottest nightclubs and parties in Hollywood and battles a drug addiction. In early January 2006, The Truth About Diamonds peaked at number #32 in Hardcover Fiction on The New York Times Best-Seller List

In early 2006, Richie made headlines with a dramatically thinner appearance, after spending two seasons of The Simple Life slightly heavier than her usual weight.[23] In May she told Vanity Fair, "I know I'm too thin right now, so I wouldn't want any young girl looking at me and saying, 'That's what I want to look like.'"[24] She also said, "I started seeing a nutritionist and a doctor. I was scared that it could be something more serious." During this time it was reported that she had also sought the help of a psychiatrist and a personal trainer.[26] Later that year, in September, Richie stated "I am not anorexic. I am not bulimic. I do not have an eating disorder." On October 27, 2006, it was announced that Richie was seeking treatment for "an inability to put on weight," though it is not treatment for an eating disorder.

In March 2007, Richie was taken to the hospital for dehydration. On March 21 her reps announced she was diagnosed with hypoglycemia.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Richie

[hunkahunka]

Tara is another former child star whos biography reads like so many others we had in the thread.
Career

Reid began her career at the age of nine years in 1985 on the game show Child's Play. As a adult she had roles in a number of commercials for McDonald's, Crayola, and Jell-O. She grew up in New York City suburbs, and attended the Professional Children's School along with such celebrities as Christina Ricci, Ben Taylor, Jerry O'Connell, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and Macaulay Culkin. .

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/Emergency_100/untitled-3.jpg
Macaulay Culkin

http://www.extratextual.tv/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/michael-jackson-home-alone-with-mcauley-culkin.jpg


Culkin spent a lot of time with Michael Jackson when he was a child.
Macaulay Culkin's 29 year old sister just died on Tuesday
(she and all her siblings also attended the Professional Children's School):


Macaulay Culkin's sister, Dakota, killed
The Home Alone star's sister, Dakota Culkin, has died from brain injuries after being hit by a car in Los Angeles


(Reed Saxon/AP Photo)

Macaulay Culkin's sister has died
Veronica Schmidt

The sister of former child actor Macaulay Culkin has died after being hit by a car in Los Angeles.

Dakota Culkin, 29, died from head injuries after she stepped into the path of a car on Tuesday.

Authorities said the driver stopped and tried to help her before she was taken to hospital. She died a day later.

A spokeswoman for Macaulay Culkin, 28, said it was a “terrible tragic accident”. (I guess they had to reinforce that)

The actor, who became one of the most recognisable child stars of all time after starring in the 1990 comedy Home Alone, has one other sister and four brothers – one of whom, Keiran, is also an actor.

The seven children were the subject of a highly-publicised custody battle in 1995 when their parents Patricia Brentrup and Christopher Culkin, who managed his son’s film career, broke up.

Culkin fell out with his father after making a Home Alone sequel and box office hits My Girl and Richie Rich during the Nineties.

At 14, he took a hiatus from acting and later said his father had driven him to make films that he didn't want to. At one point, the actor complained that he had made 14 movies in six years but had no access to his pay.

In an interview with The Times in 2003, he recalled the moment when he quit: “I told everyone, my representatives, my family, my friends: ‘I’m not doing this ever again. I hope you’ve all got your money, because it’s over!’"

In 2003, after a brief teenage marriage to actress Rachel Miner, he made a quiet comeback in the low-budget film Party Monster

[hunkahunka]

Georgia Guidestones Vandalized

Prison Planet.com
Friday, December 12, 2008



http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/g1.jpg

http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/g2.jpg

complete story:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/georgia-guidestones-vandalized.html

http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/g5.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Salmonberries.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/693/genealiveii7fa.jpg

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/got_blood.jpg
Ozzy Osbourne
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fi/7/76/Speak_of_the_devil.jpg

http://alicecooperfanclub.com/files/2008/07/alice-cooper-pic-1.jpg
Alice Cooper
http://www.morethings.com/music/alice_cooper/!alice-cooper-baby-doll.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2924036754_6b302ef9de.jpg?v=0

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/37000/Alice-Cooper-in-Wonderland--37130.jpg

http://www.mybabyisfromhell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sl75s0o2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/dannyanderson51/gene_simmons_blood_tongue.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://www.gaywitch.org/Portals/0/logo%20gaywitch.jpg

http://cluefree.org/splash/GAY%20Witchcraft.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2498060622_e74959135d.jpg?v=0

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/72/54/cdd4124128a07789d7223010._AA240_.L.jpg

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2007/10/PEOPLE_dumbledore_ImGay.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/wireas.jpg

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/cremation_of_care.jpg

[sunya]

Very funny. Get back to work.

[emerald]

Found it last week: http://illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com/

[hunkahunka]

http://i34.tinypic.com/34fo5d2.jpg
note the white face masking and white robe

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

[hunkahunka]

Evidence suggests CIA funded experiments at state hospital

By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau - Published: November 30, 2008

Few people in Vermont remember Dr. Robert W. Hyde, but one of his former patients can’t forget him. The doctor was involved in one of the nation’s darkest chapters in medical science: In the 1950s, Hyde conducted drug and psychological experiments at a Boston hospital through funding that apparently originated with the CIA. Later, he became director of research at the Vermont State Hospital.

The patient, Karen Wetmore, is convinced that Hyde and other researchers subjected her and possibly other patients to experiments paid for by the CIA at the Waterbury facility.

In addition to her claim, new evidence, though incomplete, suggests that such tests might have been conducted at the Vermont State Hospital.

Several books and numerous newspaper accounts have detailed how techniques developed through testing, including on mental health patients at hospitals in other parts of the country, are related to the interrogation methods used in Guantanamo and other locations in the war on terror. These well-known and well-documented drug experiments began in secret after the Korean War and were sponsored by the U.S. government.

News accounts and histories of the experiments have not mentioned the Vermont State Hospital, but a congressional committee concluded that dozens of institutions, some of which have never been identified, were involved in secret experiments for the CIA.

Rest of the story is here: http://www.timesargus.com/article/20081130/THISJUSTIN/811300297#

This was in the Nov 30th Times Argus

[hunkahunka]

Order of Chaeronea
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Order of Chaeronea was a secret society for the cultivation of a homosexual moral, ethical, cutural and spiritual ethos. It was founded by George Cecil Ives in 1897, as a result of his realization that the "Cause" (the end of the oppression of homosexuals) would not be accepted openly in society and must therefore have a means of underground communication.[1] The society is named after the location of the battle where the Sacred Band of Thebes was finally annihilated in 338 BC.

Nature of the organisation

Ives and other members dated letters and other materials from the year of the Battle of Chaeronea, so that 1899 would be written as C2237. An elaborate system of rituals, ceremonies, a service of initiation, seals, codes, and passwords were used by the members. The Secret Society became a worldwide organisation, and Ives took advantage of every opportunity to spread the word about the "Cause."

The Order, according to Ives' notebooks, had a specific purpose, distinct prescriptions and philosophy, and its particular symbolism: the "sign-word" AMRRHAO and "the seal of the double wreath." The prerequisites of membership are indicated to be "Zeal, Learning and Discipline." The principle of secrecy is conveyed by the metaphor of "The Chain" underlining that one should never reveal any information about the order or its members.

In Ives' words: "We believe in the glory of passion. We believe in the inspiration of emotion. We believe in the holiness of love. Now some in the world without have been asking as to our faith, and mostly we find that we have no answer for them. Scoffers there be, to whom we need not reply, and foolish ones to whom our words would convey no meaning. For what are words? Symbols of kindred comprehended conceptions, and like makes appeal to like."

Members included Charles Kains Jackson, Samuel Elsworth Cottam, Montague Summers, Laurence Housman, John Gambril Nicholson and Oscar Wilde. It is thought that Charles Robert Ashbee was a member. In his voluminous writings, Ives refers to Walt Whitman as "The Prophet" and used lines from Whitman's poetry in the ritual and ceremony of the Order.

Long believed extinct, the late 1990s saw a semi-successful effort to reconstitute the Order of Chaerona along Freemasonic lines of doctrine, governance and ritual principally undertaken by the Moorish Orthodox Church's Bishop of New Jersey, the Rt Rev. Sotemohk A. Beeyayelel. Dr Beeyayelel was appointed as Grand Master of a newly instituted Grand Lodge of a revived Sovereign Military Order of Chaerona which today has affiliates in New Jersey, Kentucky, and Missouri (USA), the United Kingdom, France and the Republic of Equatorial Guinea and South Africa. The new Order is an affiliate of the Union of Radical Magi.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2447545474_5f8fac021c.jpg?v=0

THE ORDER OF CHAERONA
(From Cassell’s Encyclopedia of Queer Myth, Spirit & Folklore, p. 257)

Deriving its name from the last battle fought by the Sacred Band of Thebes in 338 BCE, this clandestine British homosexual spiritual organization was founded in the 1890’s by George Cecil Ives (1867-1950), a criminologist, poet, essayist, and early homosexual rights activist (co-founder of the British Sexological Society). A friend of Oscar Wilde and Edward Carpenter, Ives used texts by them as well as by Walt Whitman the construction of initiation ceremonies and other rights. Ives also employed passages of his own work in these rites, some of which appear in “A Book of Chains” (1897), “Eros’ Throne” (1900) and “The Greco-Roman View of Youth” (1926).

http://www.theoi.com/image/S31.1Eros.jpg
Eros
The primary goal of the Order was to form a global chain of lovers, building upon the Platonic ideal of the “army of lovers” first realized by the Theban Band.

The “bibles” of what amounted to a homosexual-centered (or proto-Gay/Queer Spiritual) faith included Ives’ own books of ritual as well as the Greek Anthology and Whitman’s ”Leaves of Grass” (1855). The god of the Order was Eros, that “gay, capricious angel of night” with “vast wings” of Ives’ poem “With Whom, then, Should I Sleep?”(1896).

The messiah, or prophet of the faith was Whitman, the disciples or saints Wilde and Carpenter, the missionaries Ives and the other members of the Order.

Another prominent member of the Order was Laurence Housman, the brother of poet A.E. Housman (1859-1936).

#

* Romans brought their slave society mentality to every part of the empire they created. They frequently encountered slavery already in practice in the regions of the Mediterranean they conquered (e.g. Greece). When they discovered societies that did not practice slavery, it was a phenomonen they commented upon. When the Essenes, a Jewish sect at the end of the Republic, renounced the practice of slavery, the Romans thought they were bizarre. Romans, in fact, assumed slavery was a universal social practice (and it was certainly widespread in the ancient Mediterranean).Slavery, accordingly, became a social institution embedded in every part of the world that the Romans came to dominate.

# The legal status of slaves:

* Slaves were property. Owners exercised dominium over slaves. Dominium was the absolute right to dispose of and control the use of a piece of property. Interestingly enough, the authority of a pater over persons in his family was most frequently described as potestas. Legally, slavery was conceived of as a kind of death. Romans deemed citizens who did not return from battle as 'dead' because a captured citizen who survived battle would most certainly become an enemy slave. Thus, his will was read, his marriage formally ended, because the citizen was 'socially' dead to the Roman world.

* Similarly, the Romans legally conceived of the slaves they owned as cut off from all the rights and rituals of human society. Slaves could have no family. In practice, slaves formed relationships and had children. But they had no legal authority to protect these relationships. If you were a slave who had borne or fathered a child, the child was not yours. Similarly, while owners frequently gave slaves a peculium (an allowance), the slave had no right to it and had to surrender it on demand. The peculium was simply a device which permitted an owner to use his property more efficiently. Note that the legal theory here sounds very rigid (like the pater's ius necandi) and that social practice was much more flexible.
* A slave by definition had no honor or dignity. The essence of being a slave was the inability to protect one's body. While every citizen had the right to trial and appeal before they suffered physical punishment, a slave was defined by the absence of such a right and expectation. An owner could beat and abuse slaves (and it could not legally be considered assault) and compel sex from slaves of either sex (and it could not be considered rape). [Romans did not deal well with the notion that female citizens slept with male slaves, however.] If someone had sex with a slave without the owner's permission, however, the owner could sue that person for trespass.


Still, there is one aspect of "Roman sex" that is hard to stomach even for the most liberal modern observer: Slavery. Slaves were literally the property of their masters, and this also meant that they had to serve them sexually if so commanded. Indeed, pretty young female and male slaves were bought for sexual purposes, often to satisfy the same master. Even girls and boys barely reaching puberty were considered desirable sex objects and used as such without embarrassment. (Later Christian slaveholders did the same thing well into the 19th century, but with a bad conscience.) This unedifying feature of sex in the ancient world was, of course, tied to the institution of slavery itself. It was repeated wherever slavery appeared again and could end only with its total abolition everywhere.

The fact that Roman men used both female and male "sex slaves", brings up another topic that Clarke discusses in detail: Our modern concepts of "sexual orientation", i.e. our present distinctions between "heterosexuality", "homosexuality", and "bisexuality" do not fit the reality in ancient Rome . There, it was taken for granted that, in principle, any person could become sexually attractive to any other person just as it pleased the whimsy of the gods. Youthful beauty in any sex was desirable and sought after. It brought pleasure to the lucky ones who were given the opportunity to enjoy it. This is not to say that there were no same-sex relationships among adults. Indeed, Clarke devotes a special section to the British Museum’s "Warren cup" (so named by him).This elaborately sculptured silver goblet shows on one side a man anally penetrating a slave boy and on the other side a man doing the same thing with a young adult male. Given the fact that a precious goblet like this was a "conversation piece" in its own time, and that it was made to be shown around to admiring dinner guests, one is forced to realize that the scenes depicted carried no negative connotations for anyone who saw them. As a matter of fact, Clarke also documents a highly artistic glass perfume bottle recently discovered in formerly Roman Spain (1986, near Seville ). This ancient so-called "Ortiz bottle" combines the same scene with a man and a slave boy on one side with the lovemaking of a male-female couple on the other side. In short: Obviously, the gender of sexual partners was not a moral criterion for either the actors involved or for anyone else who became aware of their activity.

The Mystery Religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, India and Babylon helped lay the foundation for occultism, meaning "hidden knowledge." One of the earliest writings giving reference to occultism is the Egyptian Book of the Dead, a compilation of rituals explicitly describing methods of torture and intimidation (to create trauma), the use of potions (drugs) and the casting of spells (hypnotism), ultimately resulting in the total enslavement of the initiate.[1] These have been the main ingredients for a part of occultism known as Satanism, throughout the ages.

[onourwayto2012]

geeez, I'm so sick of all this gay crap. I 100% believe in the right of an individual to do what they want.....but all this smacks of a big agenda.....gosh, the way they just keep pushing it and pushing it(no pun intended)

[hunkahunka]

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=_bRnsbdCF5s
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=MKR80R17Ipg&feature=related
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=7AwOMd7jTxs&feature=related
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ANDHrHC_DVw&feature=related

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=doGw-JWOqJI
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=fA380F5gWxA

[hunkahunka]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z43/Radi8media/Life%20on%20Q%20Post%20Photos/gaywitchcraft.jpg

http://www.papermag.com/blogs/jeff555.jpg
'Dabbler' in the occult, Jeffrey Dahmer. He just had a gremlin statue
and was collecting skulls to create a bigger satanic alter, a fridge full of body parts,
and a habit of eating adolescent boys in gay sex rituals. I guess this was just 'dabbling',
and the hard core stuff was still a long way off? This is the opinion of the Milwaukee police?

Dahmer’s MO (contd.)

*B. Dahmer’s experiments
* Sometimes Dahmer wouldn’t kill the victims outright. Instead, he would perform experiments on his “drugged” alive victims.
* He lobotomized a number of his victims. Most died immediately. However, he claimed that 1 victim lived, following an experiment, where Dahmer drilled a whole into the victim’s skull & poured muriatic acid into it. Dahmer argued the man was turned into a zombie & lived for several days.

Jeffrey Dahmer’s Modus Operandi (contd.)

* C. Rituals
* Dahmer believed in the occult & planned to create a shrine to an evil force he thought influenced him.

Dahmer used his skulls, other human trophies, & a statue of a griffin that he owned. He thought the shrine would give him special powers & energies to help him socially & financially.


There's Something About Henry
by David McGowan

Also described as a 'dabbler' in Satanism was everyone's favorite cannibal, Jeffrey Dahmer. It is likely that Dahmer was much more than just a dabbler, a fact made clear by the detailed plan for constructing a Satanic alter that was found in his apartment, complete with the human skulls he had been collecting. In one of the most bizarre 'coincidences' surrounding America's serial killers, the brother of one of Dahmer's victims was found stabbed to death in March of 1999 - long after Dahmer himself had been murdered - in what was described by police as a ritual sacrifice.

This would tend to indicate that others were involved in Dahmer's murder spree, though it is possible that it was just a coincidence. Given, however, that Satanic crime is said to be so rare in America that it does not in fact exist, one wonders what the odds are of two kids from the same family being murdered under such circumstances. And while we are on the subject of coincidences, what are the odds that the Stayner family would have one son kidnapped as a child and subjected to eight years of torture and sexual abuse, only to have their other son later turn out to be a serial killer? But here again I digress.

http://www.savagecinema.com/Berdella2Poster.jpg
dabbler Robert Berdella

Yet another obvious Satanist in the serial killer crowd is the man who was known as the Butcher of Kansas, Bob Berdella. By his own admission, Berdella turned to Satanism after the death of his father when he was still a teen. Among the array of macabre artefacts found in his home and place of business (Bob's Bizarre Bazaar) were numerous items fashioned from human body parts, as well as an abundance of occult literature and a Satanic ritual robe. Another rather curious fact about the Berdella case was that following his conviction, a local millionaire named Dell Dunmire bought all of Berdella's belongings, including the house in which the murders were committed and the entire inventory of his home and business. He proceeded to level the house and then sold the vacant lot.

http://www.subtorrents.com/imagenes/10264.jpg

It is quite possible that these actions were taken to hide evidence of the involvement of others, including possibly himself. It will be recalled that Henry Lee Lucas claimed that the upper echelons of the cult he was involved with included the wealthy and powerful. Berkowitz made the same claims of the Son of Sam cult. Journalist Terry was, in fact, able to document the involvement in the cult of such figures as Cotton Club film producer Roy Radin and wealthy art dealer Andrew Crispo. Crispo actually admitted to being present at a ritual homicide, though he denied participating in the grisly murder. Radin, on the other hand, became a victim of the cult himself.

Another acknowledged Satanist was Leonard Lake, and likely his partner Charles Ng as well. Lake's ex-wife admitted that her former spouse had a long-time affiliation with a San Francisco 'witches coven,' and friends recalled that Lake had often claimed membership in a secret 'death cult.'

Besides the killers listed here who have exhibited an overt interest in Satanism, it is tempting to conclude that any murder that includes such elements as cannibalism, ritual mutilation and necrophilia is Satanically inspired. To do so, however, would reek of Christian fundamentalism with its desire to cast all such evil as the work of the Devil.

We will refrain from doing so here. We will also pause here to note that your erstwhile reporter is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Christian fundamentalist. In fact, he is not a Christian at all, but rather an atheist. He does not believe in God or Satan, though he does believe that both are concepts that are used by the powerful few to promote an agenda

Interesting that cannibal chef Robert Berdella worked
at the private University Club restaurant on route 66
at Missouri University.
Missouri University has an incredibly complex version
of Stonehenge built on it, created on the solstice of 1984:

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM11AP
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/bab1a988-efce-4ee5-803b-44ea254d1052.jpg

reminds a bit of this:

http://amerikan4truth.com/guide.gif
Georgia Guidestones

Both of these monuments were built in the early eighties.

The Georgia Guidestones were built in 1980, the same time period that the Atlanta Child Murders were going
on.

[emerald]

Talking of child murders, this was clearly a ritual murder. Smart policemen just now announced that the "killer" died in fact decades ago:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081216/ap_on_re_us/adam_walsh

[hunkahunka]

Talking of child murders, this was clearly a ritual murder. Smart policemen just now announced that the "killer" died in fact decades ago:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081216/ap_on_re_us/adam_walsh

I agree. Obviously a cult murder, and check out the background of Ottis Toole:

Quote
Childhood

Toole was born in Jacksonville, Florida. His father, Elwood Toole, abandoned the family when Toole was three or four years old, and he claimed his mother was a religious fanatic who often abused him and dressed him in girl's clothing.[2] Toole's maternal grandmother was a satanist who exposed him to various satanic practices and rituals in his youth and gave him the nickname "Devil's Child".[2] At school, Toole often received failing grades and was held back twice, before dropping out of high school in the ninth grade. He was often designated as being mentally retarded, with an I.Q. that had tested variously between 54 and 75. It is believed, however, that his I.Q. was probably higher and that he had received such low scores due to suffering from various learning disorders (including dyslexia and ADHD) and being illiterate. He also suffered from epilepsy, which resulted in frequent grand mal seizures. Throughout his childhood, he ran away from home often and would often sleep in abandoned houses. He was also a serial arsonist from a young age and was sexually aroused by fire.[2]

In the documentary, Death Diploma, Toole claimed he was forced to have sex with a friend of his father's when he was 6 years old. He felt he knew he was homosexual when he was 11 years old and claimed to have had a homosexual relationship with a boy neighbor when he was 12. As a teenager, Toole explored his homosexuality by visiting gay nightclubs, and by forming a relationship with a 19-year-old male neighbor. He also claimed to have been a male prostitute during adolescence and was known to dress in drag.[citation needed]

Toole admitted to having committed his first murder at the age of fourteen. After being propositioned for sex by a traveling salesman, he ran over the salesman with his own car.[2]

Toole was first arrested on August 16, 1964 at the age of seventeen on a charge of loitering.

[edit] Criminal career and imprisonment

In 1976, Toole met Henry Lee Lucas while working at a soup kitchen in Jacksonville.[2] They developed a sexual relationship with each other.[citation needed] Both would later claim to have committed hundreds of murders, sometimes at the behest of a secret cult called "The Hand of Death". Lucas would later recant his confessions, saying he made such statements only to improve his living conditions in jail. Some authorities have argued there is significant doubt as to Lucas' guilt; see Henry Lee Lucas for further information.

On October 21, 1983, Toole confessed to the murder of Adam Walsh.[3] A few weeks after Toole made the confession, however, police investigating the case announced that they no longer considered him a suspect. John Walsh, Adam's father, continued to maintain that he believed Toole to be guilty.[4] On December 16, 2008, Hollywood, Florida police announced Toole as the official suspect, and subsequently the murderer, and that the Adam Walsh case would be closed based on DNA evidence collected in 1983. [5][6]

In 1982, Toole locked 64-year-old George Sonnenburg in his own home and set the house alight, killing him. In April 1984, Toole was convicted and sentenced to death in Jacksonville, Florida for Sonnenberg's murder. Later that year, Toole was found guilty of the 1979 murder of an unknown prostitute dubbed "Orange Socks", a murder he committed with Lucas, and received a second death sentence. He was also found guilty of the 1983 murder of 19-year-old Ada Johnson, a Tallahassee, Florida resident, and received a third death sentence; on appeal, however, all three sentences were commuted to life in prison.

Experts at his trial had testified that Toole suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. While serving his sentence, Toole briefly shared a cell with Ted Bundy in Florida's Raiford Prison.[3] After incarceration, Toole pleaded guilty to four more murders in 1991 and received four more life sentences.

On September 15, 1996, at the age of 49, Ottis Toole died in his prison cell from liver failure.[7] He was buried in a prison cemetery, as nobody claimed his body.

On December 16, 2008, police stated that they had found evidence that proved Toole was responsible for the abduction and murder of Adam Walsh. Toole's niece had previously told Adam's father John Walsh that her uncle confessed to killing Adam shortly before he died.

[emerald]

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/police-suicide-try-hospitalizes-mindy-mccready/16709

[emerald]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_en_ot/obit_bell

[sloughi]

John Lennon and Jim Morrison'.

What's been worrying the spooks lately is the sway black radicalism has gained over the minds of white teenagers, to counter this 'they've been pushing Nation of Islam style separatism among rappers'. Likewise, the white Grunge movement spearheaded by Nirvana was backed by the CIA because 'they wanted to divide youngsters on racial lines, if black and white kids linked up, they'd pose a serious threat to the system. The whole point of Grunge is to instill in teenagers a sense of hopelessness, to fill them with self-hate and prevent them from changing the world.'

Apparently, the CIA got hold of Cobain when he was still unknown, then using drugs, hypnosis and medical torture, they broke his will and rebuilt his personality.
Kurt Cobain and John Lennon are mentioned in The Game's new single.

[emerald]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1099171/Leading-HSBC-banker-father-hangs-5-star-London-hotel.html

[yeshua]

I think they are just using the word "gay" and all that it means to people as yet another tool to manipulate people. Basically any box they can put you in they'll use it. People associate with titles way too much. I know a lot of people will disagree with this but I don't think people are born gay. I also don't think people are born straight. The way I see it sexuality is something that is learned. It's just like the title "black". Most "black" peoples skin isn't even black. Look at Barack Obama, for example. There are many shades of skin tones in that "community" so why it's all grouped into one title is beyond me. It's basically so people will know their place and stay in it. If you fall for these titles you're setting yourself up. For the record, I am not homophobic. I have had relationships with both sexes. I think these boxes we're put in block us off from spirituality because sexuality and skin color has absolutely nothing to do with true spirituality.

[emerald]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081225/ap_en_tv/sopranos_actor_suicide

[soulja]

good link i've found in the Morrison thread
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/field-of-art.htm

[emerald]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1103210/David-Beckham-shows-new-tattoos-including-Posh-begged-get.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1103220/Mia-Farrow-mourns-death-adopted-daughter-Lark-Previn-Christmas-Day.html

[hunkahunka]

good link i've found in the Morrison thread
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/field-of-art.htm

great link, thanks for posting it

I moved, so I have been out of commission for awhile

[soulja]

good to see you're back, i was already a bit worried that you had given up on the thread.

don't know if you have seen it already but there's another thread with a lot of MK info and symbolism in it. I'm still undecided on the whole replacement thing for reasons i outlined in the thread. would be interesting to hear your take on it.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46038

[sade]

You guys have probably readed these articles, right?
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/occult-rock-music.htm
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/index2.htm

Nice. We should all just sit in silence and never listen to rock music ever again!
I don't know if I should believe this. If I do, it's the end of listening to music for me,
how nice. They manage to ruin everything, don't they? : )

Ron Paul a freemason?
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=221925070&blogID=394155278
Ouch.

Beyonce doing the masonic hand-sign.
(I do the handsign sometimes accidentally, but for some reason coming from her...It seems done on purpose.)
http://i39.tinypic.com/33yqcsp.jpg

[hunkahunka]

vidence suggests CIA funded experiments at state hospital

By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau - Published: November 30, 2008

Few people in Vermont remember Dr. Robert W. Hyde, but one of his former patients can’t forget him. The doctor was involved in one of the nation’s darkest chapters in medical science: In the 1950s, Hyde conducted drug and psychological experiments at a Boston hospital through funding that apparently originated with the CIA. Later, he became director of research at the Vermont State Hospital.

The patient, Karen Wetmore, is convinced that Hyde and other researchers subjected her and possibly other patients to experiments paid for by the CIA at the Waterbury facility.

In addition to her claim, new evidence, though incomplete, suggests that such tests might have been conducted at the Vermont State Hospital.

Several books and numerous newspaper accounts have detailed how techniques developed through testing, including on mental health patients at hospitals in other parts of the country, are related to the interrogation methods used in Guantanamo and other locations in the war on terror. These well-known and well-documented drug experiments began in secret after the Korean War and were sponsored by the U.S. government.

News accounts and histories of the experiments have not mentioned the Vermont State Hospital, but a congressional committee concluded that dozens of institutions, some of which have never been identified, were involved in secret experiments for the CIA.

Rest of the story is here: http://www.timesargus.com/article/20081130/THISJUSTIN/811300297#

This was in the Nov 30th Times Argus here.

[hunkahunka]

Brooke White: Every Breath you Take


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2JhGO99EBk

[horus13]

that song is about a stalker. nothing more nothing less.

[soulja]

You guys have probably readed these articles, right?
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/occult-rock-music.htm
http://www.illuminati-news.com/art-and-mc/index2.htm

yeah i did, i think they were even posted in this thread some time ago.


Nice. We should all just sit in silence and never listen to rock music ever again!
I don't know if I should believe this. If I do, it's the end of listening to music for me,
how nice. They manage to ruin everything, don't they? : )

they certainly do :D

i'm not a big fan of rock music anyway and while i think it's important to be aware of such things it that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it if you dig it.
you won't be brainwashed just by listening to it imo.


Ron Paul a freemason?
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=221925070&blogID=394155278
Ouch.

Ron paul won't save us that's for sure.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn174/AboveTopSecretDotCom/image_hand_sign_ron_paul_01.jpg

they got most if not all the bases covered.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e372/tlthe5th/ron_paul_handsign2.jpghttp://hideout.mybb3.org/download/file.php?id=95


Beyonce doing the masonic hand-sign.
(I do the handsign sometimes accidentally, but for some reason coming from her...It seems done on purpose.)
http://i39.tinypic.com/33yqcsp.jpg

it does look like she did it on purpose but even if it was unintentionally there are enough other examples of her flashing the ''right'' signs.

[soulja]

came across this interview with a guy called Russ Dizdar who says a couple of interesting things on the subject of SRA and MK.
http://www.whale.to/b/dizdar.html

[hunkahunka]

came across this interview with a guy called Russ Dizdar who says a couple of interesting things on the subject of SRA and MK.
http://www.whale.to/b/dizdar.html


Dizdar has pretty extensive knowledge of the occult and mind control, but...
he reaches some conclusions that are a bit 'out there' for some people to
accept, in his interpretation of the existence, in a christian sense, of actual
demons/demonic possession. Some would find this simplistic and a bit
too dogmatic.

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqpCpBk39UQ

[soulja]

Dizdar has pretty extensive knowledge of the occult and mind control, but...
he reaches some conclusions that are a bit 'out there' for some people to
accept, in his interpretation of the existence, in a christian sense, of actual
demons/demonic possession. Some would find this simplistic and a bit
too dogmatic.


what i found interesting was his info about endtime programming, the whole thing about the 'chosen ones' wich names aside is pretty much what Springmeier wrote about. (helter skelther programming)

the demonic layer on top of/tied into mind control is something i also believe to be real, at least in the sense that the Illuminati very much believe it is.

generational spirits, placing of demons via rituals and all that stuff.

another thing i liked was him pointing out that mindcontrol is more than ''just'' the control of the mind and a more appropriate term would perhaps be soul control. i agree with that because it would be (for me at least) a more satisfying explanation for why some people break free of it than simply saying the programming cracked. the soul is bound to rebel against something evil of such an magnitude, eventually.

but yea i can see why people would have a problem with some of his info as he really is operating from an almost fundamentalist christian mindset.
i couldn't even bear browsing through his site for more than a short time because of the whole religious feel to it. on top of that the site is basicly a mess, hard to navigate, no real structure..

gotta say though, if it wouldn't be for christians we would still be at the very beginning when it comes to MK research.

but something else, have you seen this film ?
http://trailertrash.biz/Images/Paranoid%20Park.jpg
(the usual MK split personality symbolism)

it's another one of Gus Van Sant's teenage boy in the leading role flicks.

[hunkahunka]

yes, I have seen Paranoid Park, it's available as .torrent file online. Interesting. In a previous post I mentioned that it fit with a number of rail/teen related things.

I came across Dizdar a few months ago, and I think you are right that it was probably his web page that sort of threw me off at the time. I wish he'd kept the dogma out of it, like Springmeir does, and stick to the known facts.
Not to say that he has not done a great deal of valuable work.

[soulja]

"We need a program of psychosurgery and political control of our society. The purpose is physical control of the mind. Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically mutilated.
"The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.
"Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electrical stimulation of the brain."

Dr. Jose Delgado (MKULTRA experimenter who demonstrated a radio- controlled bull on CNN in 1985)
Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University Medical School
Congressional Record No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974
http://www.constitution.org/abus/mkt/uncom.htm

[soulja]

George Bush, The CIA, Mind Control & Child Abuse

On January 28, 2003, amid the furor of the impending war with Iraq the British press briefly reported on Operation Ore, the most thorough and comprehensive police investigation of crimes against children before being squashed by the Blair government. Besides implicating Rock guitarist Peter Townsend of the Who, the report claimed that senior members of Tony Blair's government were being investigated for pedophilia and the "enjoyment" of child-sex pornography. With the investigation reaching to senior members of his Government, Blair declared a news blackout on the story.

Moreover, the British report was not the first such case reported. In fact, it followed on the heels of a report from Portugal. On November 27, 2002, the press reported a scandal of pedophile ring run from a state orphanage. The Guardian reported that the scandal threatened to engulf diplomats, media personalities and senior politicians. Photographs of senior government officials with young boys from Lisbon's Casa Pia orphanage were among the evidence. More shocking however, were the revelations that systematic sexual abuse of children at the home had allegedly been going on for more than 20 years and had been known to police and other authorities for most of that time.

On January 14, 2002, Insight Magazine reported the charges leveled by Ben Johnson against his employer Dyncorp, a major defense contractor. Johnson charged that officials and employees of Dyncorp were engaging in perverse, illegal and inhumane behavior and were purchasing illegal weapons, women, forged passports and participating in other immoral acts. Johnson had witnessed his supervisors and fellow employees buying 12- to 15-year-olds as sex slaves.

While prostitution is the world’s oldest profession, the global sex trade is big business. The impact of illegal immigrant traffic in Canada is estimated at between $120 million to $400 million per year accounting for approximately 8,000 to 16,000 people arriving in Canada per year illegally. The estimate is from Organized Crime Impact Study, prepared for the Solicitor General of Canada. The majority of the illegal immigrants are forced into prostitution and come from Vietnam and China. Once smuggled into Canada the young girls are sold into bondage throughout a North America network. Moreover, Canada is not alone. Young Russians and Ukrainian women that wish to immigrate to Israel are often smuggled into the country destitute and at the mercy of their pimp.

More disgusting is the role the United States government plays in facilitating this global sex trade. Instead of banning the previously mentioned Dyncorp from further defense contracts, the regime of George W Bush rewards it in granting major contracts for the Iraqi war. Even more shameful is the wink and nod the state department grants the Saudis. The Arabian Peninsula has long been known to be purchasers of slaves. Mostly the slaves came from India or Africa however, with the advent of the oil wealth the Saudis have became more selective and are known as high-end buyers. The Saudi Arabian Government continues to refuse to sign the United Nation’s treaty on slavery and extradition treaties. There have been several incidents in the past where the media has reported a slave of a Saudi prince brought into the United States escaped. The State Department then intervenes and returns the escaped slave to the Saudi prince and the incident forgotten. The State Department exempts the Saudi princes from normal custom procedures. A child slave bought by a Saudi prince can be delivered to his plane and allowed to depart without the required passport for the child. One fortunate victim that became entangled in the Mid East sex ring was the former Miss USA Shannon Marketic. She had been lured to Brunei by what she believed was legitimate modeling work. Being a high profile case she was returned to the United States and filed suit. The former Miss USA lost her lawsuit as the State department granted immunity to her abductors.

Many of the pictures of the young children peering out from posters and milk cartons that have disappeared in the United States have fallen victim to this global sex trade. They indeed may have been lucky for there is a much more sinister side to child molestation. In fact, it is undoubtedly the most macabre and hideous aspect to evolve out of the United States use of Nazi scientists, the CIA’s Project MK-ULTRA. This grotesque project of ghastly experiments in mind control evolved out of earlier CIA projects in search for a truth serum. The roots for such a project date back to the wartime OSS search for a truth serum. During the war, the OSS began a search for a truth serum to use on captured U-boat prisoners. The experiments were limited and the only drug they found to produce desirable results was cannabis. According to author Anthony Cave Brown in the Last Hero, the experiments were limited to testing on one person. Additionally Dr. George Estabrooks of Colgate University carried out experiments paralleling the Nazis brain washing methods by drugs and hypnosis. Estabrooks connections with the army, CID, FBI and other agencies are still shrouded in secrecy. However, it seems that the doctor could not help but talk about his experiments occasionally and what is know of
his work comes from his loose tongue.

During the war, the allies had captured documents in the Nazis experiments on inmates of Dachau with mescaline and other psychedelics in a search for a truth serum. The doctor in charge of the Dachau experiments was Dr. Hubertus Strughold. Strughold was also involved in barbaric high altitude experiments on inmates of Dachau. Strughold was brought to the United States under the Project Paperclip and became America’s father of space medicine. His use of mind-altering drugs on inmates provided the foundation for the CIA’s research into truth serums and mind control.

The United States first foray into truth serums started in 1947 as Project CHATTER initiated by the navy. The project was terminated in 1953. In 1949, at the Edgewood Arsenal the CIA began project Bluebird using Nazi scientists to find a truth serum. Project Bluebird evolved into Project Artichoke and eventually into MK-Ultra. MK-UTRA was much larger in focusing on mind control and the means to achieve it was not limited to drugs and psychedelics. MK-ULTRA experiments including using hypnosis, lobotomy, electroshock, sensory deprivation, ESP, and drugs experiments in hypnosis, lobotomy, electroshock, sensory deprivation, ESP, drugs and sexual abuse.

Ironically, the CIA’s first widespread use of sex came from a program to blackmail United States politicians conducted by Edwin Wilson. The political targets were enticed to live out their sexual fantasies in the flesh. With hidden cameras ready the unsuspecting politician would be filmed, which would later be used to blackmail him into supporting the agency’s projects and views. Wilson's skill in these matters dated back to the early 1950s, when he took over a network of homosexual and pedophile rings from CIA asset and McCarthy Committee counsel Roy Cohn.

While MK-ULTRA focused primarily on the use of drugs for mind control other CIA projects evolved to use trauma to induce control or the victim’s mind such as Project Monarch. Project Monarch officially began in the early 1960s, although unofficially at a much earlier date. Monarch may have evolved out of MK-SEARCH subprojects such as SPELLBINDER, which was a program to create the Manchurian candidate or sleeper assassins that could be activated with code words.

MK-ULTRA still remains classified as top secret. Officially, the CIA refuses to acknowledge it. In the aftermath of Watergate, the CIA released voluminous documents under the Freedom of Information act on MK-ULTRA and other projects. Several good books soon followed the release. Perhaps, the closest admission of the program came in an interview of William Colby by Anton Chaitkin of the New Federalist. When directly asked what about MONARCH, Colby angry replied "We stopped that between the late 1960's and the early 1970's." Knowledge of Project MONARCH comes from its victims. The first to surface was Candy Jones, a model with the birth name of Jessica Wilcox. Jones apparently fit the physiological profile as to be one of the initial experiments of MK-ULTRA. Her story was told in the book The Control of Candy Jones.

The most publicized case is the story of Cathy O'Brien told in the book TRANCE Formation of America: The True Life Story of a ClA Slave. O'Brien is the only vocal and recovered survivor. Like many others, Cathy was introduced to the program by her perverted father. Cathy covers an almost unbelievable array of conspiratorial crime: forced prostitution (white slavery) with those in the upper echelons of world politics, covert assignments as a "drug mule" and courier. Another survivor, Paul Bonaci who survived two decades of torture under Project MONARCH has disclosed strong corroborating evidence of wide-scale crimes and corruption from the municipal/state level all the way up to the White House. He has testified about sexually abused males selected from Boy's Town in Nebraska and taken to nearby Offutt AFB. At Offutt, they were subjected to intense MONARCH programming, directed mainly by Commander Bill Plemmons and former Lt. Col. Michael Aquino.

Monarch programming involves traumatizing the victim in order to create multiple personalities in the victim. Sexual molestation and the occult are standard tools for the Monarch programmer. There are several levels of Monarch programming.


Alpha is regarded as general programming within the base personality.

Beta programming or sexual programming eliminates all learned moral behavior and stimulates the primitive sexual instinct, devoid of inhibitions.

Delta is known as killer programming. Subjects are devoid of fear and are very systematic in carrying out their assignment. Self-destruct or suicide instructions are layered in at this level.

Other levels of programming generally concern some method of self-destruction or evasion if the victim was ever captured after completing their assignment. The initial stages of programming usually begin somewhere in the first six years of the victim’s life. Due to the trauma induced by electro-shock, sexual abuse and other methods the vicitms’ mind splits into alternate personalities to cope with the trauma. Formerly referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder, it is presently recognized as Dissociative Identity Disorder and is the basis for MONARCH programming. Further conditioning of the victim's mind is enhanced through hypnotism, double-bind coercion, pleasure-pain reversals, food, water, sleep and sensory deprivation, and with various drugs.

In order to keep Project ULTRA and its associated projects secret the CIA segmented the research between several universities, hospitals and prisons. The Canadians are still coming to grips with the house of horrors found inside Dr. Cameron’s Montreal labs. Cameron’s research was sponsored by the CIA. In fact Cameron's involvement may be the best documented case of mind control by the CIA due to the civil suit of Orlikow, et al. v. United States. In 1988, the court ordered the U.S. Justice department to pay the plaintif $750,000. In addition the Canadain goverment was assessed $8 million dollars for damages.

The final stage of programming usually occurs on military bases to insure security. Several bases are implicated with Monarch programming. Two bases have been exposed in the past by incidents Offutt and the Presidio in the 1980s. The Presidio case dates back as far as 1982, when a military doctor warned the army of the danger to children in its day care center. The army failed to follow its own regulations in allowing the children to go on field trips off base without the parents consent. On August14, 1984, the FBI and officers from the army’s criminal investigation division raided the home of Lt. Col. Michael Aquino looking for evidence of child molestation.

The Presidio case attracted the attention of investigative reporter and radio talk show host, Mae Bruessell. During her investigation of the case, she received several death threats. Her daughter was killed in a car wreck that she attributed as a hit. Before concluding her investigation, Mae was struck with a fast onset of cancer. The reader should note the CIA has developed a fast acting cancer virus. Mae’s death may have been induced rather than from natural causes.

Linked with both Offutt and the Presidio cases is Lt Colonel Michael Aquino. Aquino founded the Temple of Set, an offshoot of Anton LaVey's Church of Satan. He was attached to the DIA's Psychological Warfare Division and holds a top secret security clearance for his work in military intelligence and on classified psychological warfare. . Aquino is obsessed with Nazi pagan rituals. He officiated at SS black magic ceremonies held at Wewelsburg, the Castle once used by SS chief Heinrich Himmler to create an SS order of Teutonic Knights based on the Knights Templars. His hypnotic manipulation of people made him an ideal candidate for the position of Master Programmer. Aquino along with others was arrested in the Presidio case for child molesting. The evidence was overwhelming of their guilt however, to the dismay of the victim’s parents all charges were dropped. Aquino has developed training tapes on how to create a MONARCH slave and worked as a liaison between Government/Military Intelligence and various criminal organizations and occult groups in the distribution of MONARCH slaves.

The dismissal of charges is common in such cases. On February 7, 1987, the Washington Post ran an article about a case of possible kidnapping and child abuse. Washington D.C. police had arrest two men after observing them watching over several children that were described as very neglected. The children ran in age from 2 to 7 and were covered with insect bites and extremely dirty. Their subsequent investigation led to the Finders, a cult like commune. The adult males were Michael Houlihan and Douglas Ammerman. They led authorities to an old warehouse. Inside the warehouse police found color slides, photographs and photographic contact sheets. Some photos revealed children participating in blood letting cult rituals involving animals. Other documents described "blood rituals" and sexual orgies involving children, and an unsolved murder in which the Finders might be involved. Additional documents revealed detailed instructions for obtaining children for unspecified purposes. The instructions included the impregnation of female members of the community, purchasing children, trading and kidnapping.

Several telex messages were also found in the warehouse. One such telex ordered the purchase of two children in Hong Kong to be arranged through a contact in the Chinese Embassy. There was a file called "Pentagon Break-in," and references to activities in Moscow, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, North Vietnam, North Korea, Africa, London, Germany, "Europe" and the Bahamas. Other documents identified interests in high-tech transfers to the United Kingdom, numerous properties under the control of the Finders, interest in terrorism, explosives, and the evasion of law enforcement. The warehouse also had a video room, apparently used for indoctrination.

All the findings by the local police were verified by US. Customs officials. The US Custom officials soon ordered a full investigation and obtained search warrants for various locations. The investigation brought in the FBI as well. Nevertheless, this was as far as the investigation ever got. All law enforcement agencies involved including the local police, the US Custom’s officials and the FBI were ordered to halt their investigations by the Department of Justice on grounds of national security. The matter was turned over to the CIA an "internal security matter," since the "Finders" is and has been a domestic and international covert operation of the Central Intelligence Agency. The investigations were immediately halted, the evidence suppressed and the abused children returned to their handlers, who had been arrested. To date the only media outlet that has published the details behind the halting of the investigation has been US News and World Reports.

There have been other reports suggestive of a connection between child abuse and top officials. On June 29, 1989, the Washington Times, shook the Bush White House to its very roots with the front page headline "Call Boys Took Midnight Tour of White House.'' The paper reported, ``A homosexual prostitution ring is under investigation by federal and District authorities and includes among its clients key officials of the Reagan and Bush administrations, military officers, congressional aides and U.S. and foreign businessmen with close ties to Washington's political elite.''

At the center of the scandal was Craig Spence, a Republican powerbroker known for his lavish ``power cocktail'' parties. Among the rumors circulating was a rumor indicating that over 200 of Washington’s elite had used the call boy service. Spence’s entire mansion was covered with two way mirrors, hidden microphones and cameras. The White House including President Bush refused to answer questions or discuss the incident. At the same time, another story implicating the President in child abuse was breaking in the heart of the country. The story centered on the failure of the Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha.

For roughly a decade stories linking Larry King the director of Franklin to child molestation had surfaced in and around the Omaha area. The failure of the Franklin Credit Union began to expose the murky past of King that had been shrouded in fog. Besides being involved in the illegal Iran-Contra scandal, rumors of King’s involvement with child abuse came forth. King was one of the rising stars in the Republican Party. He sung the national anthem at the national convention in Dallas. He was known for the lavish parties he held including the one at the famed South Fork Ranch from the TV series Dallas. King held parties around the country including Washington D.C. Always present at these parties were young children of both sexes from King’s stable of prostitutes.

For years, rumors had surfaced about child abuse, drugs and King in the Omaha area. King had an ample supply of young boys from Boys Town, others he procured from the streets of Omaha. Police from as far as Kansas City were aware of his activities. Nevertheless, in Omaha King was protected. The chief of police in both Omaha and Des Moines, Iowa were frequent guests at King’s parties in Omaha. King had the backing of Omaha’s elite behind him including the staunchly conservative local paper. Indeed King wielded enough power to even shut down an investigation by the state attorney general under Democratic Governor Exxon. King even had an ally in the FBI officer in charge of the Omaha office. Moreover, there were abundant rumors that one did not want to incur King’s displeasure.Several murders were rumored to have been committed by King to protect his child molestation and drug businesses. In fact, at least fifteen mysterious deaths are connected with the Franklin case. It was clear from the beginning that both the local and federal grand juries were being used as a tool to cover up the child abuse surrounding King and the Franklin case. Likewise, the FBI was part of the cover up. Several of the victims recanted their testimony after being threaten by the FBI. The victims that refused to recant were charged with perjury and sentenced to prison.

It was only with the failure of Franklin Credit Union that the whole story surrounding Larry King came out due to one man’s dogged determination. John DeCamp, a former senator from the Nebraska unicameral legislator pursued the case relentlessly in the legislator. In fact, DeCamp was sternly warned by his friend, the former CIA director William Colby to give up the case before he met with a death. Shortly after warning DeCamp, Colby was found dead. Although Colby’s death was attributed to accidental drowning it was more likely he was murdered. Instead of giving up his investigation and determination to uncover the truth about King’s pedophile ring DeCamp chose the only remaining option with the blessing of Colby. He wrote a book about the case: The Franklin Cover Up. Once published, DeCamp’s death would only call more attention to the Franklin case.

In page after page, DeCamp describes the gruesome lives of the victims of King’s pedophile sex ring. Some of the cases preceded the Franklin failure by over a decade. Many of the children described satanic rituals that they were forced to attend, some of which involved sacrificing infants and young children. Children attending these sacrifices were warned that if they ever told anyone they would be the next to be sacrificed. In addition, they told of being flown to locations around the country in King’s private plane to parties where they were expected to take part in any sexual acts demanded of them.

Why did such a case in the center of America’s heartland prompt such a high level source as the former CIA director to warn his friend? Moreover, why was there so many mysterious deaths connected with the case? While the case made the headlines in regional papers, it never attracted the attention of the national media. Most people have never heard of Larry King. The answer to the questions lies in King’s connection to the top power center of the Republican Party and the Bush administration. Both Bush’s attorney general and secretary of treasure had to be aware that the FBI was involved in a massive cover up in Omaha. Even the flight logs of King’s airplane had disappeared entangling the FAA in the cover up.

Not only did King’s pedophile ring lead to the top echelons of the Republican Party it also lead to the top of the Bush administration and the Oval Office. Several of the children in Kings prostitution ring recount stories of seeing George Bush at some of King’s Parties. While an outsider would not suspect anything amiss, the children in the ring would know what was taking place. At least one of King’s young prostitutes reported that at one party, she saw George Bush pay King and then depart with a young black man. The President was a pedophile and involved in a pedophile ring, the story had to be squashed at all cost. King is currently serving fifteen years for the failure of the Franklin Credit Union. At least two of his victims have been wrongly imprisoned for refusing to recant their testimony. Meanwhile pedophiles like George Bush are free and able to abuse other children all in the name of national security.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/littleboys.html

[kallista]

Hi,

I´ve followed this thread with interest since it´s inception and have read the Springmeier material.
I have had a stalker for three and a half years now, she fits some of the MK criteria for sure, time in state intitutions as a teenager, possibly a father in soviet military intelligence, and a surname that tranlates to RED.
I cannot prosecute her as it goes against my belief system, and I dont consider this to be her fault, per se. She is persistant, and I realise now she is not going to stop, despite the fact that this must be causing her some pain and a lot of inconvenience.
I have tried talking to her but she won´t have it. I don´t want to punish her, she is already doing that to herself, I want to help her because she is probably worth helping.

Any suggestions?

[soulja]

Hi,

I´ve followed this thread with interest since it´s inception and have read the Springmeier material.
I have had a stalker for three and a half years now, she fits some of the MK criteria for sure, time in state intitutions as a teenager, possibly a father in soviet military intelligence, and a surname that tranlates to RED.
I cannot prosecute her as it goes against my belief system, and I dont consider this to be her fault, per se. She is persistant, and I realise now she is not going to stop, despite the fact that this must be causing her some pain and a lot of inconvenience.
I have tried talking to her but she won´t have it. I don´t want to punish her, she is already doing that to herself, I want to help her because she is probably worth helping.

Any suggestions?

i'm afraid i have no experience with stalkers at all. only read about it really. i like your attitude towards her though. not everyone would be as forgiving as you are after being stalked for over 3 years! you even want to help her wich really speaks for you.

you said you think she might be under MK, if that's true then it would mean that she doesn't stalk you because she decided to but that someone orders/forces her to do so.
now i don't know what you do for a living, anything about your background/family or who you might have pissed off to be given the stalker treatment. but surely there must be a reason for it, you should try to find out who's behind this, pulling the strings.
and if you want to help her then you need to somehow make her trust you, open up to you. also have a look around the net for info from people who are/were in the same or a similar situation as you are.
dig through the various MK literature and read up on how stalkers are trained/programmed, their MO's and so on.

i wish you all the good and really hope you somehow manage to free her and you of this situation.

[soulja]

just finished a very interesting book called 'King Kill 33', below a little excerpt from it.


SET III: MACBETH AND SCOTLAND

Before pointing to the mystical associations between the murder of the president and Shakespeare's tragedy of Macbeth I wish to call attention to the appearance of the witches in Act I, Scene 1 and to the line in which they chant "Fair is foul, and foul is fair". This is reminiscent of Hermetic Art (alchemy) as well as the "individuation" or "shaping" of an integrated personality in the psychology of C. G. Jung in which the "archetype of unity" (self-head, auto-cephalous), the Yetzer Ha-Ra and Yetzer ha Tov of the Jews, and the "Mingling of All with All" is manifested.

Next it is important to note the appearance of Hecate to the three witches in Macbeth. Hecate is triple- countenanced and being three-fold in aspect she is known as Diana on earth, Luna in heaven and Hecate in hell. These three women, of course, comprise one of the triads of western mythology. Such triads were a central part of ancient religions and the "mystical triad" idea became part of Masonic symbolism; in fact there is a triad of three governing officers to be found in almost every degree and in the higher degrees there exists a symbolical triad that presides under various names, just as Hecate presides in different places under various names.

Crossroads were considered sacred to Diana-Hecate, the deity who is both virgin and whore ("Fair is foul, and foul is fair"), and such crossroads were the favored sites of the wanton women/witches and the Grand Masters (Masonic sorcerers) who were her votaries.

Crossroads were and are of significance to ritual sex magic; the wearing of clothes of the opposite sex and the performance of bisexual acts are so-called "crossroad rites". The women engaging in these perversions were, in the vernacular referred to as "Dikes" and it was said that they traveled "The Old Dike Road" and "The Old Dirt Road". These sorts of activities are extremely secret in keeping with the lore of Hecate as illustrated in the saying "Tacitisque paebens conscium sacris jubar, Hecate triformis" (Triple Hecate, who giveth forth rays cognizant of secret mysteries).

Crossroads were also places of human and animal sacrifice and such rites were often carried out in conjunction with magica sexualis since the participants recognized an existing relationship between fertility and death. Hecate is therefore also identified as a "death goddess" and her sex-and-death attributes are similar to those ascribed to Venus (Aphrodite, Prone, Kypris).

crossdressing, sacrifices (at least mock)the whole ritualistic focus on death all this reminds me of Bohemian Grove

http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/bohemian_grove/gallery/xbo89_small.jpghttp://www.cremationofcare.com/images/bohemian_grove/gallery/xbo88_small.jpg
http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/bohemian_grove/gallery/xbo11_small.jpghttp://www.cremationofcare.com/images/bohemian_grove/nat_geo_power_party.jpg
http://www.cremationofcare.com/illu_boh_gr_photo_gallery.htm

not to mention their main symbol, the owl, a often seen companion in depictions of Hecate (and various other Goddesses)

http://www.fineartprintsondemand.com/artists/blake/hecate-400.jpg

let's look into hecate a bit cos she's very important to these people it seems.
i will go into the whole MK connection afterwards, it's imo important to understand the various occult traditions as it's from there where most of the MK terms, systems and symbols have theri origin. the programmers/handlers are occultists, they are deeply into this stuff, especially the dark aspects of it.

anyway, hectate, there's much to say and learn about her but i wan't to focus on a few specific points. that's why i'll only quote those passages i found relevant to the MK connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate

Goddess of the crossroads

Hecate had a special role at three-way crossroads, where the Greeks set poles with masks of each of her heads facing in different directions.

The crossroad aspect of Hecate stems from her original sphere as a goddess of the wilderness and untamed areas. This led to sacrifice to assure safe travel into these areas. This role is similar to lesser Hermes, that is, a god of liminal points or boundaries.

Hecate is the Greek version of Trivia "the three ways" in Roman mythology. Eligius in the 7th century reminded his recently converted flock in Flanders "No Christian should make or render any devotion to the deities of the trivium, where three roads meet...".

Hecate was the goddess who appeared most often in magical texts such as the Greek Magical Papyri and curse tablets, along with Hermes.

Queen of the witches

In the so-called "Chaldean Oracles" that were edited in Alexandria, she was also associated with a serpentine maze around a spiral, known as Hecate's wheel (the "Strophalos of Hecate", verse 194 of Isaac Preston Cory's 1836 translation). The symbolism referred to the serpent's power of rebirth, to the labyrinth of knowledge through which Hecate could lead mankind, and to the flame of life itself: "The life-producing bosom of Hecate, that Living Flame which clothes itself in Matter to manifest Existence" (verse 55 of Cory's translation of the Chaldean Oracles).

In Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches compiled by Charles Leland (1899), he describes the remanents of an Italian witchcraft tradition; the text describes the exploits of the streghe and their worship of Diana (mythology) who sounds rather like Hecate. It is debatable as to whether the goddess Diana as depicted in Leland's work is actually the Greek Goddess Hecate by another name; indeed Diana was usually heavily identified with the Greek Artemis, taking on a great many of her traits. But the Diana is not depicted in Aradia as the Diana of Roman cultus. For example, she is spoken of like this in Aradia: '[...] Diana has ever a dog by her side.'[14] Hecate is famously synonymous with dogs, driving the Wild Hunt across the skies and chasing the lost souls of the dead into the Underworld.

(the dog/hectate/diana combination will become important later on )

There are also rich references to Diana creating the worlds in Aradia: 'And having made the heaven and the stars and the rain, Diana became Queen of the Witches; she was the cat who ruled the star mice, the heaven and the rain.'[15] Of course in Greek mythology Hecate not only predates the Greek pantheon in a historical sense but she also predates the Olympians in Greek myth. Zeus formally recognised her power by giving to her dominion over earth, sky ('[Diana] was the cat who ruled the star mice, the heaven and the rain') and the underworld as well as connections to the tide in her lunar aspect.

Hecate is also often named as 'Queen of all Witches' having long been associated with Witchcraft in both archaeological curse tablets, crossroads and myth. Both Hecate and the Roman Diana are associated with the moon, the evidence certainly points abundantly towards Diana of Aradia as being Hecate (only with a more familiar name to Italians). Indeed only Hecate was ever publicly associated with Witchcraft, whereas Diana's connection to it never existed within Roman cultus -- like the Greek Artemis, she was a moon deity and a goddess of the hunt, not a patron of Witches.

a little reminder from the kk33 quote
Hecate is triple- countenanced and being three-fold in aspect she is known as Diana on earth, Luna in heaven and Hecate in hell. These three women, of course, comprise one of the triads of western mythology.
http://thanasis.com/heca002.jpg
http://thanasis.com/heca004.jpg

Queen of the dead

Queen of Ghosts is a title associated with Hecate due to the belief that she can both prevent harm from leaving, but also allow harm to enter from the spirit world.[/B] Hecate thus has a role and special power in graveyards and at crossroads. She guards the "ways and paths that cross".
Her association with graveyards also played a large part in the idea of Hecate as a lunar goddess.

The leaves of the black poplar are dark on one side and light on the other, symbolizing the boundary between the worlds. The yew has long been associated with the Underworld.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/hekate1.gif

Animals

The bitch is the animal most commonly associated with Hecate. She was sometimes called the 'Black bitch' and black dogs were once sacrificed to her in purification rituals. At Colophon in Thrace, Hecate might be manifest as a dog. The sound of barking dogs was the first sign of her approach in Greek and Roman literature. Hecate is also sometimes associated with deer as is her counterpart Diana, goddess of the hunt.

The frog, significantly a creature that can cross between two elements, also is sacred to Hecate.

As a triple goddess, she sometimes appears with three heads-one each of a dog, horse, and bear or of dog, serpent, and lion.

It was asserted in Malleus Maleficarum (1486) that Hecate was revered by witches who adopted parts of her mythos as their goddess of sorcery. Because Hecate had already been much maligned by the late Roman period, Christians found it easy to vilify her image. Thus were all her creatures also considered "creatures of darkness"; however, the history of creatures such as ravens, night-owls, snakes, scorpions, asses, bats, horses, bears, and lions as her creatures is not always a dark and frightening one

Hecate was worshipped by both the Greeks and the Romans who had their own festivals dedicated to her. According to Ruickbie (2004:19) the Greeks observed two days sacred to Hecate, one on the 13th of August and one on the 30th of November, whilst the Romans observed the 29th of every month as her sacred day.


The figure of Hecate can often be associated with the figure of Isis in Egyptian myth, mainly due to her role as sorceress. Both were symbols of liminal points. Lucius Apuleius (c. 123 - c. 170 CE) in his fine work "The Golden Ass" associates Hecate with Isis:

'I am she that is the natural mother of all things, mistress and governess of all the elements, the initial progeny of worlds, chief of powers divine, Queen of heaven, the principal of the Gods celestial, the light of the goddesses: at my will the planets of the air, the wholesome winds of the Seas, and the silences of hell be disposed; my name, my divinity is adored throughout all the world in divers manners, in variable customs and in many names, [...] Some call me Juno, others Bellona of the Battles, and still others Hecate. Principally the Ethiopians which dwell in the Orient, and the Egyptians which are excellent in all kind of ancient doctrine, and by their proper ceremonies accustomed to worship me, do call me Queen Isis.[...]'

Some historians ultimately compare her to the Virgin Mary. She is also comparable to Hel of Nordic myth in her underworld function.

Before she became associated with Greek mythology, she had many similarities with Artemis (wilderness, and watching over wedding ceremonies)and Hera (child rearing and the protection of young men or heroes, and watching over wedding ceremonies)

Hecate in literature

Hecate is a character in William Shakespeare's tragedy Macbeth, which was first performed circa 1605; she commands the Three Witches, although whether she is a witch, a demon or a goddess is not known. There is some evidence to suggest that the character and the scenes or portions thereof in which she appears (Act III, Scene v, and a portion of Act IV, Scene i) were not written by Shakespeare, but were added during a revision by Thomas Middleton, who used material from his own play The Witch, which was produced in 1615. Most modern texts of Macbeth indicate the interpolations.

to focus on the Hecate importance to witchcraft i'll only quote those examples from the many Hectate references in popular culture wich put emphasis on that.

# In Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Hecate is often invoked by witches such as Willow Rosenberg and particularly Amy Madison during their spells. When Willow visits Angel in the Angel episode "Orpheus," she rambles mindlessly about Wesley for a moment before commenting "For the love of Hecate, somebody stop me."[23]

# In the first season of Charmed Hecate is the Queen of the Underworld who comes to earth every 200 years to find an innocent man and put him under her spell so she can create a demonic spawn. She must marry the innocent man in a sanctified wedding before impregnating herself. Her child would look human on the outside but would be evil on the inside. Her spell can only be broken by a declaration of true love and a sealed kiss. A fourteenth century Italian dagger is the only way to vanquish Hecate and her demonic companions back to the underworld. She is shown with horns, old hands and long, sharp nails.

# Hecate appears in the Hellboy comic series as one of its principal antagonists, the serpentine Queen of Witches. In Hellboy Animated: Blood and Iron, Hecate sets up the chain of events to set up a meeting between her and Hellboy, watching him for some time to have him embrace his true destiny as one to ensure the destruction of mankind. But Hellboy refuses to accept that and sends her off after a lengthy fight between them. Hecate is voiced in the movie by Cree Summer.

# In Sandra Heath's regency romance novel Halloween Magic, Hecate appears as the goddess of witchcraft and evil, whom Judith Villiers worships. Judith summons Hecate's face in a stone called the Lady in order to perform her magic.

# In the Warhammer mythos the Dark Elves venerate a many-armed goddess of black sorcery called Hekarti, one of the chthonic elven deities known as the Cytharai. The ruler of this pantheon, the Dark Mother Ereth-Khiyal, also bears some similarities to the classical Hecate

# In the pilot of the proposed DrWho spin-off series K-9 and Company, the local witch coven, who attempt human sacrifice during the episode, worship Hecate.

# In the 1981 TV-Movie Midnight Offerings, the main witch, Vivian Sotherland, worships Hecate at a dark altar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate

http://lorikarels.com/mediac/400_0/media/43600012_edited.JPG

now let's recap a few things, Hecate, a Goddess, is associated with crossroads,witchcraft, all sorts of rituals including sacrifices, dogs are one of the animals connected to her, she's known under many names/terms one being 'bitch' or 'black bitch'

all that i found rather interesting when i stumbled across this MK victim story on ken adachi's site.

Using "Dogs" as a Metaphor in Mind Control Programming
http://educate-yourself.org/mc/dalevansillumdogsprogrammingchildren13oct06.shtml

Editor's Note: I was contacted by the writer of this e-mail last year. She has only recently re-established contact with me after an absence for some months. I've chosen a pen name for her until I find out whether she wants to use her real name or not. She is one of many victims of mind control programming who contact me with their stories because of the articles on mind control that are posted at my web site. In most cases, victims who recover their memories of abuse have tried to go to political or law enforcement authorities to complain, but they are either patronized with do-nothing promises or rebuffed outright; usually the latter. If the person winds up in a psychiatric facility or hospital, they will usually be reprogrammed and sent on their merry way. Some people involved in this world essentially decide to join the Dark Side and are willing participants, while others -once they begin to realize what they are involved in-will rebel and want to break away from their family's involvement with the Illuminati. Of course, the majority who keep their mouth shut do so out of abject fear of punishment, or cut off from financial support, etc. A certain percentage, however, become so disgusted with the evil of it all, that they bolt, no matter what the consequences may be. These are the people I hear from.

This writer's victimization began with her parents in her earliest childhood, as is the case with most victims of mind control traumatizing and programming. The victim chosen for lifelong 'service' to their Illuminati handlers is at least the third generation to be traumatized and programmed. That means that the parents themselves were programmed, as were their parents.

The Illuminati has infiltrated very strata of American society with these mind controlled victims/participants. A partial list would include lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists, judges, talk show hosts, politicians, clergy, scientists, law enforcement, military, journalists, news casters, film makers, actors, etc., etc. There is no area of influence or power that isn't thoroughly infiltrated by the Illuminati with their mind controlled 'assets,' as the CIA and other intelligence agencies prefer to call them.

I will post more information from "Dalevans" in the near future, as she has opened up a window of revelations, much of it corroborated in the books on mind control programming written by Cisco Wheeler and Fritz Springmeier, but much of it new and unknown to me. ...Ken


Ken,

I was just reading your article on the "Finders".

I know a little about this...I know that the "training" begins at the age of one years old and the "rewards" of food, is a conditioning process, one that you would use to condition a dog..

They follow the theories of B.F. Skinner. And in one of his books, he talks about creating a pattern in which you look at every possible outcome to predict the future with. The white robes, of course, are the KKK...and in this type of training it would be the K-9's...or "DOGS". It's a form of the KKK within Law Enforcement. My father and mother both were in Law Enforcement.

There is a ritual I remember in flash backs as three brown crosses horizontal instead of vertical, they form a mason symbol with a cross at the top point. There is a circle of people surrounding the crosses in various robes of different colors representing different levels of the order.

The "DOGS" come from an African system originally called Dogon.. You can research it to verify it...I don't have the name of the source book where I found the most information in, but, I will get it for you if you want.

I was intended to be a "Bitch" for the organization, which means I was to be a Bitch Goddess. I was supposed to perform the sacrifices and be worshiped for my power to kill. The theory is that all men are DOGS and all women are Bitches; they are just looking for the one in "Heat". And when a Bitch is in heat, she throws off a scent. You've heard of pheromones? That is the purpose of molesting children; it accelerates a girl's puberty cycle.

She has her period younger and develops earlier when she has been molested. It also makes her either sexually promiscuous or sexually inhibited, depending on how the abuse was administered...if it was pleasant or painful. I don't know how much you've heard of the DOGS or know about them...they are in the highest hierarchy of the Illuminati.

Thanks, Dalevans



German Shepherds

October 13, 2006

Ken,

I forgot to mention, regarding the "DOGS", at least for the hierarchy level of the Illuminati, only German Shepherd (police dogs) are used. In other words, the commands that I was brainwashed and conditioned with are in a language I cannot consciously understand. They are in German., which is the Nazi regime, Hitler's group.

Even though I am half Cherokee Indian, I was raised to be a warrior in a Nazi war...and, because I am half Indian, the "Nazis" I'm trained to "work for", hate me. It's playing one end against the middle; get rid of two birds with one stone. Let us destroy each other.

And who are the Nazi party? Law Enforcement. I'm trained to work with them, and they're conditioned to hate me. It leaves me resentful, which turns me against them and them against me. Understanding this, it's hard for me to know: which side am I on?

Everything I thought I believed in has turned around and it's the opposite and I am trying to adjust after I lost so much.

Dalevans

in the light of the above mentioned Bitch Goddess, dogs, worshipped for the power to kill'' i found the following quite interesting.

http://www.faile.net/store/store_holder/images/BitchGoddessFullAnimation3R_still.gif
bitch goddess with a dog, note that she's holding machine guns, guns of course have the power to kill, she's worshipped by the dog/man/slave.

the terms (+ date btw) used in this article about Ann Coultier are rather interesting aswell.

Bitch Goddess
Ann Coulter's perverse appeal

Sara Rimensnyder | October 2002 Print Edition

On September 13, 2001, columnist Ann Coulter offered up the single most infamous foreign policy suggestion inspired by 9/11. Writing about Muslims, she declared, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28545.html

coincidence ? likely, but maybe just maybe they tell us in a coded way Ann Coultier is one of the probably many Bitch Goddesses within the cult.
of course to accept even the possibility of such an explanation one must accept that firstly MK is not just real but a real menace in that the numbers of multiples are in the hundred thousands. also important to understand certain aspects of it like double lifes (public function/cult function)

secondly, one use of the media outlets is to communicate/transport coded messages. (the CIA admitted it to an extend btw) even inside jokes..

talking bout MK's in the entertainment industry, the whole crossroad rites/crossdress rituals mentioned/seen in KK33, Hecate and the Bohemian Grove reminded me at those Cobain, Manson pics.

http://www.tribal-celtic-tattoo.com/images/labels/Marilyn_Manson.jpg
http://melbourne.diarystar.com.au/images/marilyn-manson1.jpg
also note the emphasis put on his left eye

can't find the one from Kurt atm but hunka already posted it means it's somewhere buried in the thread.

again, without knowledge of the whole MK/occult underground lifestyle/world these people grow up with, it just looks like rebellious posing, going against the norms, schock value/provocation, expression of their feminine side type a thing.

[soulja]

The Hell-Fire Club (Monks of Medmenham, Friars of St. Francis) was a society of ruffians and drunkards who engaged in sexual orgies similar to those of the "Mollies", "Gormogans", "Mankillers", "Blasters", "Mohawks", "Sweaters", "She Romps Club", the "Fun Club", etc. They also engaged in political agitation and conspiracy. They were dedicated to the destruction of the Catholic Church. The membership was highly placed in the British government: the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the First Lord of the Admiralty the Prince of Wales and the Lord Mayor of London all shared in the 'privileges' of the Hell-Fire Club. Benjamin Franklin, who was initiated into Freemasonry at St. John's Lodge in Philadelphia and who is credited with publishing the first Masonic book in America was also a member as well as being connected with the Lodge of the Nine Sisters in France.

Benjamin Franklin and Sir Francis Dashwood, founder of the Hell-Fire Club, wrote a prayer book which became the basis of the book of common prayer that is used in many American Protestant Churches. Because Sir Francis Dashwood was the so-called Lord le Despencer, his prayer book, in England, was referred to as the "Franklin-DeSpencer Prayer Book". In the United States that book was called the "Franklin Prayer Book". The book was composed at Dashwood's manor-house at West Wycombe the site of numerous rites of "magica sexualis" (sex magic). Franklin and Dashwood created their volume of entreaties in between sodomy-sucking -sorcery sessions.

Eventually Dashwood dug a huge cave on his West Wycombe estate to facilitate the performance of sex magic. Later a road was constructed to High Wycombe which utilized soil taken from the cave dug by the Hell-Fire Club. Brunel University is located in High Wycombe and F. H. George, Ph.D. is director of its world-renowned Cybernetic department. George defines cybernetics thus: "It is a science concerned with all matters of controls and communication, and to this extent it trespasses across what we have come to think of as the established Sciences". Cybernetics, of course, is intimately concerned with artificial or machine intelligence. This concern is predicated, to a certain degree, on human cooperation with machines. The science of symbolism is part of the sciences of mathematics and cybernetics.


Miss Chudleigh

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/HellfireClub_468x624.jpg

Miss Chudleigh, the "dollymop" for the Hell- Fire Club was a Jewess. Certainly she was not "Miss" at the time she was called "Miss Chudleigh" by Horace Walpole nor was her name Chudleigh at that time. Chudleigh was the name of a town and she was a "woman of common property" there. The fact that her name was concealed is of mystical import since when the "dollymops" were performing sexual perversions in Hell-Fire Club rituals complete secrecy regarding the identity of the harlot was viewed as essential. This concealment has to do with "the secrecy and silence of Masonry".

Harpocrates, the Greek god of secrecy and silence whose statue was often placed at the entrance of temples, caves and other places where the mysteries were performed, was of symbolical importance to the Hell-Fire Club. A statue of Harpocrates which depicted him holding a finger to his mouth was one of a number of statues used on "club" premises.

(another example of occult traditions/symbols that are used in MK systems (silence trigger/sign we have seen so often in this thread)

On April 24, 1783 Pope Clement XII, a bitter foe of magica sexualis, issued his celebrated Bill of Excommunication entitled "In Eminenti Apostolatus Specula". It specifically decreed:

"In order to close the widely open road to iniquities which might be committed with impunity and also for other reasons, just and reasonable, that have come to our knowledge ... We have resolved and decreed to condemn and forbid such Societies, assemblies, reunions, conventions, aggregations or meetings called either Freemasonic or known under some other denomination. We condemn and forbid them by this, our present constitution, which is to be considered valid forever".

Due to Pope Clement's decree Miss Chudleigh faced pressure outside of England. As an act of defiance, King Frederick II became Chudleigh's protector and bedfellow. Still, this was not so outrageous since Prussia was not considered a Catholic country; but Poland was. It was here that Prince Radzvil, the ancestor of the husband of Jacqueline Kennedy's sister, took the whore Chudleigh. The Radzvil fortune was considered the greatest in their nation. The family itself was related to the Hohenzollerns and the Romanovs.

According to legend, Miss Chudleigh carried a "mystical taint". According to the Masonry of Cagliostro (magnetic masonry) there exists a thing described as "the transfer of magnetic force". This "mystical taint" is supposedly attached to those who traffic in ritual sex perversions. According to the record, the fortunes of the Radzvils have declined ever since.


Hellfire Club in Sydney
http://www.redbubble.com/people/docophoto/art/476844-4-sydney-hellfire-club
another Hellfire Club, this one is located in New York
http://www.sohoblues.com/SoHoBlues/previewpages/previewpage49.htm

interesting i thought, reading about the things the Hellfire Club was into and then coming across nightclubs with the same name wich are also into sexual perversions and that whole master/slave thing.

[soulja]

found it's way into comics aswell,


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5648/282509-149370-hellfire-club_large.jpg

The Hellfire Club is an international group of the world's social elite. They are run by mutants that consider themselves superior to other mutants in both their mutant abilities and social status.

The Inner Circle

The Club is ran by a small group of the most influential members that form the infamous Inner Circle. Named after chess pieces, members of the Inner Circle will take on the titles of the Black and White (and later also Red) Kings, Queens, Bishops, and Rooks. The final position of Lord Imperial is reserved for the most powerful member of the club. Additionally, prominent members have also had assistants that did not have official titles within the club.

The Inner Circle was not always mutant dominated, but few members in several generations were not. The Inner Circle dominates the club and secretly influences the club's activities in order to achieve even more power and wealth.

History

The Hellfire Club was originally founded in 18th century England by, Sir Francis Dashwood, Duncan Munro and Scotman John Stuart (Third Earl of Butte). It had some connection to King James I and retained some of his writings on the occult from the 16th and 17th centuries. In the 1760s, it functioned as a social club for the elite of British society. The Club not only provided its members with pleasures, often of sorts that violated moral standards at the time, but also sewed as a means for the members to consolidate their Influence over British economic and political matters. During the Revolutionary War, Philadelphia members tried to obtain secret information from Major General Wallace Worthington. In 1859 the club had to align itself with Apocalypse.

A number of the Club's most important members emigrated to the colony of New York in the 1780s, where they founded the new American Hellfire Club. Clemens and Knight served as its first leaders under their Club titles of Black King and Black Queen. The Club's headquarters was an abandoned church that stood on the site of the present day Hellfire Club mansion, located at what is now Fifth Avenue on Manhattan's East Side, only a few blocks away from the Avengers Mansion.

Today's Hellfire Club counts among its members the wealthy, the powerful, and the celebrated from virtually all over the world. Membership la by Invitation only, but such Invitations are rarely turned down, for membership in the Hellfire Club Is universally regarded as the ultimate status symbol. Membership is also hereditary. Tony Stark and Norman Osborne have both been invited into the Hellfire Club
http://www.comicvine.com/hellfire-club/65-13357/

[soulja]

movie from the 60's

http://www.belly-dance.org/posters/poster-hellfire-club.jpg
http://www.belly-dance.org/film-poster.html

In contrast to what the movie poster promises this movie was less shocking than the advestisement made us believe.
The notorious gentlemen’s club of the title was famous for its depravity, debauchery, and devil worship – but the satanic mischief is completely absent from this romantic melodrama loosely based on the Hellfire Club.
The movie is a thrilling swordplay set in King George II's 18th-century England. This british production features Keith Mitchell as Jason, the young son of Lord Netherden (Andrew Faulds) the leader of the notorious Hellfire Club. When the boy is whipped because he accidentally walks in on an orgy being held by his father, his mother (Jean Lodge), finally fed up with her husbands' debauchery, flees with her son. Soon after, she is killed in a coach accident. The boy is raised by family retainer Lodge.
Years later, with the help of his attorney Merryweather (Peter Cushing), Jason (who became a circus acrobat) returns to the estate of his father to reclaim his father's estate, but crosses swords with his evil cousin Thomas (Peter Arne) who has carried on the seedy traditions of his uncle and has stolen both his name and estate. Thomas kidnaps Jasions's childhood sweetheart Yvonne (Kai Fischer), thus forcing Jasp, to pursue and mortally wound him in a duel, thus regaining his estate and his love.

Also casting Adrienne Corri as Isobel, a red-headed seductrice and David Lodge as Timothy
Directed and producted in the U.K. by Robert S. Baker and Monty Berman
Music Direction: Muir Mathieson
Original Music: Clifton Parker

[soulja]

found this in the stepford thread


COVERT WAR ON ROCK BY ALEX CONSTANTINE SUMMARY
http://www.articlesbase.com/journali...ry-514622.html

CHAPTER 7
JIMI HENDRIX POLITICAL HARASSMENT AND MURDER.

He didn't die from a drug overdose, he was not an out of control dope fiend. He was not a junkie.

FBI COUNTELPRO was out to do more than prevent a communist menace, from overtaking the U.S.! (or to control black power movement). It was out to obliterate its opposition and ruin the representatives of the people involved in the anti-war movement, Civil Rights Movement, and the rock revolution.

Hendrix manager, Mike Jeffery, by his own admission was an intelligence agent. He frequently boasted he had powerful underworld connections. There were many mafia managed "acts". The CIA/Mafia connection had exercised considerable influence in the music industry for decades. Hendrix wanted out of the contract. He felt he was under surveillance and felt more and more unsafe in New York, his former safe haven. His manager, thus, might have created a Toronto arrest, to silence Jimi. He preferred him to be isolated. He had always been a trusting and open person before, and now he didn't know who to trust.

He was getting 10 grand for a 50 grand concert. Hendrix friends said Jeffrey’s would get more money from a dead Hendrix than a living one. There was also a possible million dollar insurance policy in Jeffrey’s name.

Was Hendrix murdered? The official cause of death was asphyxiation caused by vomit? The pathologist report left the cause of death open. Monica Danneman (investigator), had long insisted Hendrix was murdered. At the time of her own death, she had brought media attention to the case in a letter and highly publicized court battle. Monica's body was found in a fume-filled car near her home, in south England. It was called a suicide.

She had a lot of death threats, and people who knew her said "she didn't believe in the concept of suicide"

[hunkahunka]

Crossroads were considered sacred to Diana-Hecate, the deity who is both virgin and whore ("Fair is foul, and foul is fair"), and such crossroads were the favored sites of the wanton women/witches and the Grand Masters (Masonic sorcerers) who were her votaries.

Crossroads were and are of significance to ritual sex magic; the wearing of clothes of the opposite sex and the performance of bisexual acts are so-called "crossroad rites". The women engaging in these perversions were, in the vernacular referred to as "Dikes" and it was said that they traveled "The Old Dike Road" and "The Old Dirt Road". These sorts of activities are extremely secret in keeping with the lore of Hecate as illustrated in the saying "Tacitisque paebens conscium sacris jubar, Hecate triformis" (Triple Hecate, who giveth forth rays cognizant of secret mysteries).

Crossroads were also places of human and animal sacrifice and such rites were often carried out in conjunction with magica sexualis since the participants recognized an existing relationship between fertility and death. Hecate is therefore also identified as a "death goddess" and her sex-and-death attributes are similar to those ascribed to Venus (Aphrodite, Prone, Kypris).

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd60nI4sa9A

Robert Johnson Cross Road Blues lyrics

I went down to the crossroad
fell down on my knees
I went down to the crossroad
fell down on my knees
Asked the lord above "Have mercy now
save poor Bob if you please"
Yeeooo, standin at the crossroad
tried to flag a ride
ooo ooo eee
I tried to flag a ride
Didn't nobody seem to know me babe
everybody pass me by
Standin at the crossroad babe
risin sun goin down
Standin at the crossroad babe
eee eee eee, risin sun goin down
I believe to my soul now,
Poor Bob is sinkin down
You can run, you can run
tell my friend Willie Brown
You can run, you can run
tell my friend Willie Brown
(th)'at I got the croosroad blues this mornin Lord
babe, I'm sinkin down
And I went to the crossraod momma
I looked east and west
I went to the crossraod baby
I looked east and west
Lord, I didn't have no sweet woman
ooh-well babe, in my distress



Animals

The bitch is the animal most commonly associated with Hecate. She was sometimes called the 'Black bitch' and black dogs were once sacrificed to her in purification rituals. At Colophon in Thrace, Hecate might be manifest as a dog. The sound of barking dogs was the first sign of her approach in Greek and Roman literature. Hecate is also sometimes associated with deer as is her counterpart Diana, goddess of the hunt.

Hell Hound On My Trail
by Robert Johnson


I got to keep movin', I've got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail

Umm mmm mmm mmm
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail

And the days keeps on worryin' me,
there's a hellhound1 on my trail,
hellhound on my trail, hellhound on my trail

If today was Christmas eve
If today was Christmas eve,
and tomorrow was Christmas day

If today was Christmas eve,
and tomorrow was Christmas day
(spoken: Aow, wouldn't we have a time, baby?)
All I would need my little sweet rider just,
to pass the time away, huh huh, to pass the time away

You sprinkled hot foot powder, mmm
mmm, around my door, all around my door
You sprinkled hot foot powder, mmm,
all around your daddy's door, hmm hmm hmm
It keep me with ramblin' mind, rider
Every old place I go, every old place I go

I can tell, the wind is risin',
the leaves tremblin' on the tree,
tremblin' on the tree
I can tell, the wind is risin',
leaves tremblin' on the tree
hmm hmm mmm mmm
All I need's my little sweet woman,
and to keep my company, hmmm hmm, hey hey
My company

[Label: Hellhound On My Trail
Note 1: According to the Webster online dictionary a hellhound is a "dog of hell, named Cerberus in Greek and Roman mythology, the three-headed dog guarding the gate of Hades".




Devil legend

According to a legend known to modern Blues fans, Robert Johnson was a young black man living on a plantation in rural Mississippi. Branded with a burning desire to become a great blues musician, he was instructed to take his guitar to a crossroad near Dockery's plantation at midnight. There he was met by a large black man (the Devil) who took the guitar from Johnson and tuned it, giving him mastery of the guitar, and handed it back to him in return for his soul. In exchange Robert Johnson became able to play, sing, and create the greatest blues anyone had ever heard.

This legend was developed over time, and has been chronicled by Gayle Dean Wardlow,[19] Edward Komara[20] and Elijah Wald.[21] Folk tales of bargains with the Devil have long existed in African American and White traditions, and were adapted into literature by, amongst others, Washington Irving in "The Devil and Tom Walker" in 1824, and by Stephen Vincent Benet in "The Devil and Daniel Webster" in 1936. In the 1930s the folklorist Harry Middleton Hart recorded many tales of banjo players, fiddlers, card sharps and dice sharks selling their souls at the crossroads, along with guitarists and one accordionist. The folklorist Alan Lomax considered that every African American secular musician was "in the opinion of both himself and his peers, a child of the devil, a consequence of the black view of the European dance embrace as sinful in the extreme".[22]

In recorded Blues, the theme first appeared in 1924 in the record by Clara Smith "Done Sold My Soul To The Devil (And My Heart's Done Turned To Stone)". An influential song, Smith's tune was covered during the following decade by blues artists Merline Johnson (the Yas Yas Girl), Casey Bill Weldon, and John D. Twitty. A cover was also recorded in 1937 by the white Western Swing band named after their business manager Dave Edwards.[23][24]

Johnson has claimed that he sold his soul to the Devil, but it is not clear that he meant it seriously. Son House once told the story to Pete Welding as an explanation of Johnson's astonishingly rapid mastery of the guitar. Welding reported it as a serious belief in a widely read article in Down Beat in 1966.[25] However, other interviewers failed to elicit any confirmation from House. Moreover, there were fully two years between House's observation of Robert as first a novice and then a master.

Further details were absorbed from the imaginative retellings by Greil Marcus[26] and Robert Palmer.[27] Most significantly, the detail was added that Johnson received his gift from a large black man at a crossroads. There is dispute as to how and when the crossroads detail was attached to the Robert Johnson story. All the published evidence, including a full chapter on the subject in the biography Crossroads by Tom Graves, suggests an origin in the story of Tommy Johnson. This story was collected from his musical associate Ishman Bracey and his elder brother Ledell in the 1960s.[28] One version of Ledell Johnson's account was published in 1971 David Evans's biography of Tommy,[29] and was repeated in print in 1982 alongside Son House's story in the widely read Searching for Robert Johnson.[30]

In another version, Ledell placed the meeting not at a crossroads but in a graveyard. This resembles the story told to Steve LaVere that Ike Zinnerman of Hazelhurst, Mississippi learned to play the guitar at midnight while sitting on tombstones. Zinnerman is believed to have influenced the playing of the young Robert Johnson.[31] Recent research by blues scholar Bruce Conforth uncovered Ike Zimmerman's daughter (note the difference in spelling... the daughter and Ike's own funeral program containing a photo of him all state that the correct spelling is "Zimmerman". LaVere allegedly came up with a document purportedly signed by Zimmerman dealing with his second wife's death in which the respondent signed it "Zinermon" yet Zimmerman's second wife outlived him and was responsible for burying him!) and the story becomes much clearer, including the fact that Johnson and Zimmerman did, in fact, practice in a graveyard at night (because it was quiet and no one would disturb them) but that it was not the Hazlehurst cemetery as had been believed. Johnson spent about a year living with, and learning from Zimmerman who ultimately accompanied Johnson back up to the Delta to look after him. Conforth's article in Living Blues magazine goes into much greater detail.[32]

The crossroads detail was widely believed to come from Johnson himself, probably because it appeared to explain the discrepancy in "Cross Road Blues". Johnson's high emotion and religious fervour are hard to explain as resulting from the mundane situation described, unsuccessful hitchhiking as night falls. The crossroads myth offers a simple literal explanation for both the religion and the anguish.

An alternative explanation (as expressed by musician and blues historian Scott Ainslie) is that the experience of "unsuccessful hitchhiking as night falls" --far from being a "mundane situation"-- was, in fact, likely to be an extremely dangerous predicament for a lone, young black man to find himself in the deep American south in the 1920s and 1930s. This is especially true if the individual in question was a stranger in the area and suspected of working at a nearby "juke joint". Rather than "religious fervour", the "high emotion" that Johnson exhibits while singing the song is more likely to recall the justifiable anxiety (or, indeed, terror) that he probably regularly experienced during his career as an itinerant musician, trying to reach the relative safety of a welcoming safe-house before evening fell.

The myth was established in mass consciousness in 1986 by the film Crossroads. There are now tourist attractions claiming to be "The Crossroads" at Clarksdale and in Memphis.[33] The film O Brother Where Art Thou? by the Coen Brothers incorporates the crossroads legend and a young African American blues guitarist named "Tommy Johnson", with no other biographical similarity to the real Tommy Johnson or to Robert Johnson.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MCHI23FTP8&feature=related


Me and the devil blues, by Robert Johnson

Early this morning
When you knocked upon my door
Early this morning, oooo
When you knocked upon my door
And I said hello Satan
I believe it's time to go

Me and the Devil
Was walkin' side by side
Me and the Devil, woooo
Was walking side by side
And I'm going to beat my woman
'Til I get satisfied

She said you don't see why
That she would dog me 'round
(Spoken:) Now baby you know you ain't doin' me right don'tcha
She say you don't see why, whoooo
That she would dog me 'round
It must-a be that old evil spirit
So deep down in the ground
You may bury my body
Down by the highway side
(Spoken:) Baby, I don't care where you bury my body when I'm dead and gone
You may bury my body, woooo
Down by the highway side
So my old evil spirit
Can get a Greyhound bus and ride
She said she don't see why,
That I will dog her 'round.
(Now baby, you know you ain't doing me right.)
She said she don't see why, That I will dog her 'round.
Well, it must be that old evil spirit
So deep down in the ground.

You may bury my body
Down by the highway side.
(I don't care where you bury my body when I'm dead and gone.)
You may bury my body
Down by the highway side.
Oh, my old evil spirit
Can take a Greyhound bus and ride.

[soulja]

check this out

http://www.butterflyspirit.org/images/linda_grover_and_pres_clinton.jpg
Butterfly Board member Linda Grover
with President Clinton On January 4th

Butterfly Magic and the Moody Blues

On August 5, 1993, I was invited to a butterfly garden at the Green Lane Nature Center not far from Allentown, Pennsylvania after attending a composting conference for two days. When we arrived there were hundreds of butterflies fluttering about a profusion of fragrant flowers, shrubs, and herbs. I suddenly felt connected to nature through the wonder of all that was around me. Something was stirring my deepest emotions. I felt like a child again and began likening this scene to be something similar to one right out of Alice in Wonderland. I left that garden determined to create gardens like this for children everywhere. Beautiful butterfly gardens for children of all ages. I'd like to mention right now, that some four years later curiosity got the best of me and I rented the video Alice In Wonderland, which I hadn't seen in perhaps forty years. I wasn't surprised to be watching Alice chasing her white rabbit down into a hole and finding herself in a field of flowers with hundreds of butterflies everywhere. I was surprised though to realize how long our minds can retain an image with its associated emotions and feelings.

On my way home from this garden experience I was listening to a new tape I had just made. It was a mix of songs by John Lennon, Joan Baez, Moody Blues, and other sixties artists. I suddenly realized that there were butterflies in the music that I never heard before. I had made a butterfly tape before I ever had the experience! The music and the image of the butterflies was like an epiphany. A thousand lights all lit at once. My whole life history flashed before my eyes. I suddenly had a brainstorm of an idea to use the butterfly as a symbol for the environment. It would be better than the "save the whales campaign," I told myself. You can't take a whale to a schoolyard, but you can plant a butterfly garden there. Everybody could attract butterflies to their homes, schools, and parks, and have a personal experience with nature like I had.

I had worked in many other organizations such as Common Cause, the Sierra Club, Solar Lobby and Earth Day. I had organized state and local chapters of these groups, but there was always assistance and backing from the national office. Now I had the notion of working backwards, of setting up a national group from the grassroots level with no help or funding. This was sure to be a challenge and I was up for something new. It seemed an impossible dream, but who cared, I somehow knew it could be done, after all, I had all those years of organizing experience. "It's going to be hard" I told myself, but who else will do it?" Did you ever have that feeling? Besides, I was looking something new and positive in my life, and if it just had the potential to help chance the world, how could I say no? My mind jumped to life and soon was full and somewhat pregnant, with the possibilities, potentialities, and probabilities of such an endeavor. I was ready to commit myself to whatever it was.

Suddenly I sensed a feeling of great sacredness and urgency. I broke out in goose bumps. I broke out in tears. I wondered why I was feeling a feeling of sacredness. I never used this word before, not even to describe anything I had done or ever thought I might be doing. Next it suddenly came to me that it was necessary to get my ego out of the process. No room for ego if you're dealing with something sacred. Next an intuitive voice or something deep inside was telling me to stand back and let this whole thing just flow and unfold on its own. I felt this was rather a strange experience, perhaps even mystical. My rational mind told me I was just day dreaming, yet I had the notion to disagree with it. If my vision was true, if it was out there in the universe, it would all manifest itself. It would all just happen if I believed and had faith that it was real. How long it all would take was of no importance. I cried most of the way home, perhaps in mourning for the old self that I felt was now fading and dying, making way for something new that was to be reborn, perhaps as a purifying sacrement to cleanse away what I thought was my past, or perhaps out of nothing less than the sheer joy of feeling so wonderful and radically alive.

When I arrived home I told my wife, "There's a renaissance going on and it's happening all over." My wife asked, What's happening? What are you talking about?" I realized I didn't have a clue, at least not consciously at that moment. Within an hour I told her I was leaving my job. I was shedding my responsibilities as if a butterfly shedding it's skin. I was getting rid of the old in preparation for the new. By the end of the day I had all of the goals for a new organization put down on paper, the Butterfly Gardens Association, or Bee Gees for short. I went from self-employed to unemployed in what seemed like an instant.

Everything began to just fall into place - intuitive, synchronistic, mystical, and magical stuff began happening every day. This went on for three years until I achieved most of the goals I set out to do. I proved the hypothetical can work, and everything became a model of action for other people to follow. This continued to February 1996. I spent everything I had saved and went into debt. It was then I had to put my project into a cocoon. When I didn't work on butterflies and went back to work to earn money all the magic stopped.

In October of 1996 I brought butterflies back into my life and the magic started again. My daughter was dating a boy named George and on Sunday morning I got a call that his father had died. That afternoon, as I was strolling in my garden, I came across a Monarch. It was late in the season for a Monarch. They should have all migrated by now. It must be one of the last Monarchs. I thought about doing a butterfly release for the funeral. In the past I had raised Monarchs for other people who released them at funerals. The butterfly is a symbol of the soul passing on.

The funeral was on Wednesday and I thought this could be the last Monarch I would see, but I didn't want to catch it and keep it imprisoned in a box for three whole days. So I took a chance and let that one go, determined I would find another butterfly on Tuesday. Now on Tuesday I went out looking for any kind of butterfly. The whole day was gone and no butterfly. The sun was getting low in the sky. My wife drove home then and both of us looked around for the last time. We realized that nothing was going to happen. You don't find butterflies at night. I followed my wife toward the house. She went in. I stopped and closed my eyes and the thought was something like, "Please God I need a butterfly by tomorrow." Right after that I knew I would be out in the morning and it would show up. It might be magic, but it would be back. Then I dismissed the thought and feelings going through my head and after five seconds of that I went in the house.

My wife was on the phone with a woman who was telling her that she had just found a Monarch Butterfly at her doorstep. Earlier in the day she had found the Monarch and was concerned because it was so late in the season and was calling people to find out how to care for a Monarch butterfly. She had called me to come pick it up and take care of it for her.

My wife, having been skeptical about all this butterfly magic, was amazed. She had now become a part of this process! I threw on a Monarch T-shirt and went to pick up my Monarch. When I arrived the first thing she said was "I have the same T-shirt!" She also had a butterfly cage in her house and had taken care of them two years ago. I gave her a copy of a book I brought with me, I, Monty by Marcus Bach, because of our similar experiences. The magic of Synchronicity was back and, of course, it was all about butterflies. The butterfly had landed in her yard, the yard of a butterfly lover. She had thought to call me and it was on that very evening when I was especially looking for a butterfly! The magic was back.

I took the butterfly home, made it a sugar/water solution and hand fed it. It became active after eating and flew around the house. I put it to sleep for the night in a dark cage of its liking. The next day at the funeral I released the Monarch while reciting a prayer from Marianne Williamson's book Illuminata about spirit flying free. The butterfly took off straight up in the air and disappeared in a flash. People came up to me later and said it was the most beautiful service ever. People felt that the soul had left on the wings of that butterfly.

George said that he needed to be alone for an hour at the graveside. As I was walking to the car I kept looking back wishing that butterfly would appear again. We left and it didn't appear. I thought, "Oh, well, nice thought. I can't have everything I wish for." On the way home I told my wife that something is going to happen. I'm thinking that the night after I lost my aunt I felt my aunt walking down the hall and that something like that was going to happen.

Here's what happened. George called us when he got home. On his way home from the cemetery he stopped at a light and a Monarch landed next to his car. This was an area under construction, not a place where you'd normally see a butterfly. When the light turned green, the butterfly flew right along with his car and kept pace with him. As the butterfly followed him, he broke into tears, beautiful bittersweet tears. When he got home he opened his door. He saw his father sitting there. I had only felt my aunt's presence the day after her funeral, George said he actually saw his father. Whether you believe George saw his father or not, is not important. What is important is that butterfly meant something to George that absolutely healed his pain. George knew then that his father was with him and always would be.

http://butterflyspirit.org/images/butterfly_s.jpg
http://www.butterflyspirit.org/stories/bfly_magic_moody_blues/index.htm



Here is a brief overview of some of our projects.

The Butterfly Gardeners Association seeks to foster an appreciation of butterflies, hummingbirds, dragonflies, and other life forms. We emphasize the need for conservation of natural habitats in our communities and around the world.
Our programs promote the installation of butterfly gardens, children's environmental education, reading, and nonviolence programs. We also promote the belief that the butterfly is the symbolic representaion and catalyst for the conscious evolution of the human race and will usher in the Butterfly Era of Global Civilization as outlined in Norie Huddle's book Butterfly.
Please see http://www.butterflyspirit.org and
Norie's site at www.bestgame.org

Musicians & Fine Artists for World Peace will be promoting events and concerts to support our environment and peace organizing.
In addition to our interest in world peace and the environment, our campaign will also cover election reforms such as campaign financing and the abolition or reform of the Electoral College, supporting Congressman Kucinich's proposal for a cabinet level Department of Peace -
see http://www.house.gov/kucinich/action/peace.htm
reforming the criminal justice system and the three strikes law, making the office of public defender an elected position, raising the issue of corporate responsibility, protecting the Earth and old-growth forests, raising global consciousness, supporting and developing sustainable communities, helping indigenous causes, increasing funding for art and music programs, ending the cycle of violence and abuse that is rooted in our male dominator culture, and acknowledging artists and musicians as an important ingredient to transforming and improving our lives. We will also be working in collaboration with Project Chrysalis.

The Vallejo Performing Arts & Conference Center is now the new home of Musicians & Fine Artists for World Peace & the Butterfly Gardeners Association. I have become the codirector of the center. We are looking to book shows, concerts, dance events, workshops, meetings, conferences, exhibitions, weddings and banquets at our facility. We have two ballrooms with 10,000 square feet of space, a dance studio and a full size 16 x 26 foot commercial kitchen for food preparation and catering.

We are going to transform the Old Masonic Temple into a community of resident artists, performers, educators and healers dedicated to global peace, love and transformative performing arts and healing.

Project Chrysalis is a therapeutic program to bring performers, musicians, dancers, artists, clowns, story tellers, puppeteers, and mimes into hospitals, hospices, schools, juvenile youth facilities, senior centers and other institutions that can use joy and healing entertainment for adults as well as children. We also plan to use other therapies such as horticulture (butterfly gardening), drumming, healing touch and massage, comedy, and theater as well. We believe that love and caring can be powerful therapeutic tools. Patch Adams is honorary chairman of this effort.

On March 18, 2003 His Holiness the Dalai Lama endorsed our Earth
Proclamation. It was also featured on James Redfield's Celestine Vision site. He thrilled us all by featuring the Earth Proclamation on his front page for about a month beginning in February 2000.

We are a magically attuned world peace, environmental and spiritual network built on Synchronicity. Please let me know if this resonates with you.

I have a whole collection of amazing stories, poetry, and happenings that people have been sharing.
If you can endorse the Earth Proclamation and forward it and any other material from us to your email buddies, it would be very much appreciated.

I have also coined a new meaning for the word butterfly, which used a verb means to give or teach someone the gift of looking at the world, as with butterfly eyes, and seeing only the beauty, love, and harmony in the world around them. If we can reach out and butterfly people all over the world, we may be heralding the dawn of a major paradigm shift and find ourselves living in the Butterfly Era of global civilization that author Norie Huddle envisions.
http://www.butterflyspirit.org/about/index.html

Butterfly Board Members
http://www.butterflyspirit.org/about/board/index.html

President Bill Clinton proclaimed January first an International Day of Peace on January 4, 2001. The letter sent to the President on this issue was on the letterhead of Authors for a Positive Millennium, a group I helped Linda Grover to resurrect after the Tree Island Millennium Gathering. Robert Muller was one of its founders.

Letter from Linda Grover

Dear authors and butterflies,

I understand you may want information about Alan's good works. Here is a document we're just putting together which illustrates one of the ways in which he has helped--with the Authors for a Positive Millennium and with the Tree Island Millennium Gathering. He has been tireless in his efforts to help.

We expect that our Congressional Joint resolution favoring a global day of peace and sharing each January 1st will be introduced soon by senior legislators of both parties in the US House and Senate, and that it will be enacted without dissent, hopefully at the same time that several other national legislatures consider similar initiatives.

You will note that the Dalai Lama attended a religious conference in the Holy Land last November which approved the idea of an annual day of peace and sharing marked by a Millennium or Jubillenium Meal.

One Day in Peace and The Millennium Meal
A Project of Authors for a Positive Millennium

ADVISORY BOARD: LINDA GROVER, FOUNDER, MILLENNIUM MEAL PROJECT; RICHARD LANDES, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR MILLENNIAL STUDIES, BOSTON UNIVERSITY; CHRISTOPHER LEATHER, EUROPEAN COORDINATOR, AMSTERDAM; ROBERT MULLER, FORMER UN ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL; ROBERT SILVERSTEIN, FOUNDER, ONE DAY IN PEACE JANUARY 1, 2000; ROB WHEELER, CHAIR, THE MILLENNIUM PEOPLES ASSEMBLY NETWORK


History of the Project

In 1997, as the world approached Day 1000 before the millennial year, several authors got together on the Internet to share their ideas about the possible outcome of the year 2000. Their particular interest was in the year's use as a tool or lever to help inspire and accelerate lasting improvement in human behavior. In hopes that well coordinated and meaningful millennium activities could increase civility and thus diminish both hunger and violence in the new century, they formed Authors for a Positive Millennium. Founding members include: Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary-General and author of 19 books; Linda Grover, network television head writer and author of three books dealing with the positive power of celebration; and Robert Silverstein, author of children's science books and co-founder of One Day in Peace, January 1, 2000.

In 1998, joined by Hillel Schwartz, senior fellow of the Millennium Institute and Millennium advisor to the White House; by the Lifebridge Foundation, by author Steve Diamond of One Day in Peace, and the Butterfly Gardeners Association, the group sponsored the Tree Island Millennium Gathering, which took place on Day 500 before the year 2000.
http://www.butterflyspirit.org/projects/one_day_in_peace.html

[hunkahunka]

From the biography of lesbian singer Melissa Etheridge (titled Our Little Secret)


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W7XGYGAHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

While a high-school student, Etheridge also appeared in Oklahoma (as Aunt KA Eller) and the Wizard of Oz (as Dorothy)

http://i.ivillage.com/E/Tracker/E_MelissaEtheridge2_250.jpg
Melissa Etheridge with lover Tammy Lynn Michaels

Lesbian Melissa Etheridge gave birth to two children fathered (via artificial insemination)
by David Crosby

Another of those icons, and one of Laurel Canyon’s most flamboyant residents, is a young man by the name of David Crosby, founding member of the seminal Laurel Canyon band the Byrds, as well as, of course, Crosby, Stills & Nash. Crosby is, not surprisingly, the son of an Annapolis graduate and WWII military intelligence officer, Major Floyd Delafield Crosby. Like others in this story, Floyd Crosby spent much of his post-service time traveling the world. Those travels landed him in places like Haiti, where he paid a visit in 1927, when the country just happened to be, coincidentally of course, under military occupation by the U.S. Marines. One of the Marines doing that occupying was a guy that we met earlier by the name of Captain Claude Andrew Phillips.

But David Crosby is much more than just the son of Major Floyd Delafield Crosby. David Van Cortlandt Crosby, as it turns out, is a scion of the closely intertwined Van Cortlandt, Van Schuyler and Van Rensselaer families. And while you’re probably thinking, “the Van Who families?,” I can assure you that if you plug those names in over at Wikipedia, you can spend a pretty fair amount of time reading up on the power wielded by this clan for the last, oh, two-and-a-quarter centuries or so. Suffice it to say that the Crosby family tree includes a truly dizzying array of US senators and congressmen, state senators and assemblymen, governors, mayors, judges, Supreme Court justices, Revolutionary and Civil War generals, signers of the Declaration of Independence, and members of the Continental Congress. It also includes, I should hasten to add – for those of you with a taste for such things – more than a few high-ranking Masons. Stephen Van Rensselaer III, for example, reportedly served as Grand Master of Masons for New York. And if all that isn’t impressive enough, according to the New England Genealogical Society, David Van Cortlandt Crosby is also a direct descendant of ‘Founding Fathers’ and Federalist Papers’ authors Alexander Hamilton and John Jay.

If there is, as many believe, a network of elite families that has shaped national and world events for a very long time, then it is probably safe to say that David Crosby is a bloodline member of that clan (which may explain, come to think of it, why his semen seems to be in such demand in certain circles – because, if we’re being honest here, it certainly can’t be due to his looks or talent.) If America had royalty, then David Crosby would probably be a Duke, or a Prince, or something similar (I’m not really sure how that shit works). But other than that, he is just a normal, run-of-the-mill kind of guy who just happened to shine as one of Laurel Canyon’s brightest stars. And who, I guess I should add, has a real fondness for guns, especially handguns, which he has maintained a sizable collection of for his entire life. According to those closest to him, it is a rare occasion when Mr. Crosby is not packing heat (John Phillips also owned and sometimes carried handguns). And according to Crosby himself, he has, on at least one occasion, discharged a firearm in anger at another human being. All of which made him, of course, an obvious choice for the Flower Children to rally around.

[hunkahunka]

check this out

http://www.butterflyspirit.org/images/linda_grover_and_pres_clinton.jpg
Butterfly Board member Linda Grover
with President Clinton On January 4th


Amazing post, Soulja. Now you have exposed the progression of the MK'd CIA hippy cult / flower-power subculture to the rabid environmental nutcase fringe movement that it really is.
Again, we see the illuminati depopulation plan at work.

[hunkahunka]

Nick Begich presents the solid science on mind control. It's academic, military and intelligence history as well as a workshop type presentation on the mind control devices available today for psychological and physiological health. A well researched, very informative presentation«

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=mind+control&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#

[hunkahunka]

So, it turns out that William Burroughs lived close to Robert Berdella,
in Lawrence, Kansas , and moved there in 1981 (he lived there from 1981 to 1997) while nearby, the Robert Berdella murders: raped, tortured and killed: six men, in nearby Kansas City , between 1984 and 1987. It is alleged that Berdella did this alone, but several observers, including investigators, contend that it was the work of a coven or cult.(the first one he was caught for was in 1984. Who knows how many he (they?) really got away with. He/they may have been slaughtering and draining bodies while he worked as a chef at the exclusive Missouri University restaurant 'the University Club'. Maybe those bodies were somehow never found either.

Burroughs and Berdella were both occultists who kept diaries, and both had ties to the CIA.


Burroughs (Lawrence) lived a twenty minute drive away from Berdella (Kansas City):
http://www.johnnyroadtrip.com/cities/kansascity/maps/easternkansas.gif


Interesting to note:

the Berdella murders occurred (between 1984 and 1987) when Iran-Contra was in full swing

William Burroughs was living near Berdella at that time

Berdella had entries in his diaries concerning Lt. Col. Oliver North (Iran-Contra)

Burroughs spent time in Panama studying psychoactive drugs on assignment for the CIA,

Panama was later a training base for the Contras:


In one of the most controversial efforts to enlist third country support for the Contra war, Oliver North arranged to meet Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega in a London hotel in September 1986. In return for ending U.S. pressure on Panama for Noriega's drug smuggling operations and helping to "clean up" his image, Noriega proposed to engage in efforts to assassinate the Sandinista leadership. With authorization from National Security Advisor John Poindexter, North met with Noriega in a London hotel on September 22 and discussed how Panama could help with sophisticated sabotage operations against Nicaraguan targets, including the airport, oil refinery and port facilities. According to notes taken by North at the meeting, they also discussed setting up training camps in Panama for Contra operatives.


20. True or False: Serial killer Bob Berdella had entries in his diaries concerning Lt. Col. Oliver North.

True

21. True or False: The detective who headed the investigation of the Berdella case, and who later co-wrote a self-serving and disinformational book, acknowledged that he had previously worked for the CIA.

True

William Burroughs was in Panama in the mid-50's, ostensibly just to 'do drugs' , (yage), but it is now known that Burroughs traveled extensively on assignments for the CIA. One of the principle active ingredients of Yage is DMT.


The Yage Letters / An Excerpt




January 15, 1953
Hotel Colon, Panama
Dear Allen,

I stopped off here to have my piles out. Wouldn't do to go back among the Indians with piles I figured...I checked into the hospital junk sick and spent four days there. They would only give me three shots of morphine and I couldn't sleep from pain and heat and deprivation besides which there was a Panamanian hernia case in the same room with me and his friends came and stayed all day and half the night - one of them did in fact stay until midnight.

Recall walking by some American women in the corridor who looked like officers' wives. One of them was saying, "I don't know why, but I just can't eat sweets."

"You've got diabetes, lady," I said. They all whirled around and gave me an outraged stare.

After checking out of the hospital I stopped off at the U.S. Embassy. In front of the Embassy is a vacant lot with weeds and trees where boys undress to swim in the polluted waters of the bay home of a small venomous sea snake. Smell of excrement and sea water and young male lust. No letters. I stopped again to buy two ounces of paregoric. Same old Panama, whores and pimps and hustlers.

"Want nice girl?"
"Naked lady dance?"
"See me fuck my sister?"

No wonder food prices are high. They can't keep them down on the farm. They all want to come in the big city and be pimps.

I had a magazine article with me describing a joint outside Panama City called The Blue Goose. "This is anything goes joint. Dope peddlers lurk in the men's room with a hypo loaded and ready to go. Sometimes they dart out of a toilet and stick it in your arm without waiting for consent. Homosexuals run riot."

The Blue Goose looks like a Prohibition era roadhouse. A long one story building run down and covered with vines, I could hear frogs croaking in the woods and swamps around it. I remembered a prohibition era roadhouse of my adolescence, and the taste of gin rickey's in the mid west summer. (Oh my God! And the August moon in a violet sky and Billy Bradshinkel's cock. How sloppy can you get?)

Immediately, two old whores sat down at my table without being asked and ordered drinks. The bill for one round was $6.90. The only thing lurking in the men's room was an insolent demanding lavatory attendant. I may add that far from running riot in Panama I never scored for one boy there. I wonder what a Panamanian boy would be like. Probably cut. When they say anything goes, they are referring to the joint, not the customers.

(The Yage Letters, William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg, c. 1963.)




The CIA focused on three potential applications for psychoactive drugs: "truth serums" that could be used during interrogation, drugs that could induce amnesia, and brainwashing techniques that could create what is often described as a "Manchurian Candidate" (after the popular 1959 novel). In fiction, a "Manchurian Candidate" is someone who has been brainwashed to carry out covert actions such as assassinations or sabotage against their will, without having the awareness that anything is amiss.

In pursuit of these goals, MKULTRA scientists investigated dozens of psychoactive agents, including psilocybin, bufotenin, scopolamine, DMT, amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, and cocaine. They particularly focused on LSD, funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars through covert channels into LSD studies at clinics and hospitals. Much of the basic research into LSD's pharmacology conducted in the 1950s was funded by either the military or the CIA. By 1952 Boston Psychopathic Hospital alone was receiving $40,000 a year for such studies, overseen by LSD researcher Dr. Robert Hyde.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k20AX0yuv2I&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owts-Up5ttk&eurl=http://knowdissociation.blogspot.com/

[hunkahunka]

David Crosby Has Mixed Feelings About Donating Sperm Again
November 14th, 2006

Rocker David Crosby was disappointed when he learned Melissa Etheridge and her lesbian lover Julie Cypher were splitting up because he donated sperm to help Cypher conceive two children. Crosby wanted to help his friends become parents, and the couple's son Beckett was born in 1998, followed by daughter Bailey in 2000.

http://i.rollingstone.com/assets/rs/11/3861/images/70242_lg.jpg


He famously posed with Etheridge, Cypher and their children for a Rolling Stone cover, where the world discovered Crosby's role in the conception. To his dismay, Etheridge and Cypher decided to split up seven months later and now share custody of the two children. Cypher is married to Matthew Hale while Etheridge is married to actress Tammy Lynn Michaels, who recently gave birth to twins using an anonymous sperm donor.

He tells People, "Would I be a sperm donor again? I don't know. It's such a personal thing. It's discouraging how this worked out, because one of the main reasons that (wife Jan and I) did it was because of the love between Julie and Melissa, who have obviously transferred that affection to new partners. But both women have brought the kids up here and been with me at different times.

"It's very kind of them both to let me spend time with the kids, because our official deal was that I signed papers relinquishing parental rights of any sort after I made my gift. They're great kids, they're very special people in my life."

[kallista]

i'm afraid i have no experience with stalkers at all. only read about it really. i like your attitude towards her though. not everyone would be as forgiving as you are after being stalked for over 3 years! you even want to help her wich really speaks for you.

you said you think she might be under MK, if that's true then it would mean that she doesn't stalk you because she decided to but that someone orders/forces her to do so.
now i don't know what you do for a living, anything about your background/family or who you might have pissed off to be given the stalker treatment. but surely there must be a reason for it, you should try to find out who's behind this, pulling the strings.
and if you want to help her then you need to somehow make her trust you, open up to you. also have a look around the net for info from people who are/were in the same or a similar situation as you are.
dig through the various MK literature and read up on how stalkers are trained/programmed, their MO's and so on.

i wish you all the good and really hope you somehow manage to free her and you of this situation.

Thanks for your reply Soulja,

I have had plenty of time to investigate this scenario, I´ve been from alien love bites and the organic portal theory to straight psychiatric reports.

To be more accurate I have been gaslighted, but with no real motive, I used to think that she wanted a relationship with me, but this is not the case as would be in most female to male stalking situations.

Without wishing to sound like a aluminium foil hat wearer, it could be construed as a deliberate attack on my person, well set up and organised, with others involved and with prior knowledge of my personality.

If it is a deliberate attack then the main perpertrator is not aware of the reasons for her actions on a conscious level, of that I am sure, which is where the MK Ultra material fits.

[kallista]

Grant Morrison reminds me of Burroughs, he has featured himself in `The Invisibles´as an assasin, has the MK scorpion tatooed on his lower spine, and has had a big influence in modern (counter) culture creation. Is also OTO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Morrison

" In 1991 Morrison wrote Bible John-A Forensic Meditation, a comic book series drawn by Daniel Vallely, which appeared in the anthology title Crisis #56-61. It was based on an analysis of possible motivations for the crimes of the serial killer Bible John and was also an analysis of evil. It has been compared to Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell's From Hell as it covers similar themes. The story was highly experimental in terms of story and art, with Vallely and Morrison claiming to have used a Ouija board to write the script and Vallely through a cocktail of hallucenogenic drugs attempted a series of collages rather than conventional panels to tell the story. The term "Forensic Meditation" refers to Morrison's mixture of science and magic in order to tell the story. The rumour is that Vallely destroyed most of his work after this collaboration and left the comic industry. Bible John has not been reprinted since."

[kallista]

Interesting to note:

the Berdella murders occurred (between 1984 and 1987) when Iran-Contra was in full swing

William Burroughs was living near Berdella at that time

Berdella had entries in his diaries concerning Lt. Col. Oliver North (Iran-Contra)

Burroughs spent time in Panama studying psychoactive drugs on assignment for the CIA,

Panama was later a training base for the Contras




William Burroughs was in Panama in the mid-50's, ostensibly just to 'do drugs' , (yage), but it is now known that Burroughs traveled extensively on assignments for the CIA. One of the principle active ingredients of Yage is DMT.


Could you give me a link to the Burroughs CIA connection.

Whilst looking I found this about Gysin

http://realitystudio.org/interviews/john-geiger/


Geiger: Gysin was a mythomaniac, so the hardest part was cutting through all the bullshit and that process was not always helped by his old friends. I had one of his acolytes tell me in hushed tones that Gysin had been CIA. Yeah right, the CIA’s going to recruit a rapacious gossip as an operative. Good cover though: gay, druggie, avant-garde artist. Couldn’t hide his moods, little more a state secret. Nobody’d ever guess that he was really passing the goods to Uncle Sam

[soulja]

Wizards of Waverly Place
http://www.megacalendars.com/images/DDD596-2809_FC.jpg

The show is about Alex Russo, her older brother Justin, and their younger brother Max, and Alex's best friend Harper. The three live with their Italian-American father, Jerry, and their eccentric Mexican-American mother, Theresa. The children aren't allowed to use magic without supervision, and according to the premise, only one of the three will keep their magic abilities once they are adults, and this will be determined by a magic competition. Jerry (their father) once did this competition and won, but gave his powers up to marry their mortal mother (Theresa) as a wizard is not allowed to marry a mortal. Alex often gets into trouble by using magic unsupervised, and learns lessons and morals relating to friends, family, and school. But she still ends up getting into trouble again and again for the lessons that she supposedly already learned about the hard way.


series is full of bloodline, life style and MK references

Characters

* Selena Gomez - Alex Russo, a young wizard in training. She is the middle child and the only girl, often overshadowed in school and in wizard training by her brother, Justin. She's spunky, sarcastic, a fashion lover, street smart, and quite mischievous. In some episodes, she is shown as 'Daddy's Little Princess'. Often in trouble, she has been grounded many times for using magic without permission. Her best friend, Harper, is also into fashion but is dorky. Alex and Harper are constantly fighting the popular bully Gigi (Gertrude) and her copycat crew. Alex usually keeps her wand in her shoe/sock. Her full name is Alexandra Margarita Russo.

* David Henrie - Justin Russo, the oldest child in the Russo family. He is intelligent, mature, and responsible, but is always picked on by his younger sister Alex. He enjoys watching sports, as he is a fan of the Mets and the Jets, but doesn't enjoy playing them. He is not good at baseball although once he used magic to do well in a baseball game because he wanted to impress a girl. Though he isn't really popular, Alex's best friend Harper has an obsessive crush on him. He knows more about magic than his younger siblings, taking it very seriously, but he often gets mixed up with Alex's crazy schemes and mishaps. It says he is allergic to cinnamon, although in the episode Graphic Novel he says he loves pumpkin pie, which has cinnamon. Although,in episode "Disenchanted Evening" it is stated that he gets the "bland pie" as in it has no cinnamon.

* Jake T. Austin - Max Russo, the youngest in the family. He seems to also have a short attention span, often doing unpredictable things and occasionally getting in trouble. However, he can be relied on to think of unorthodox solutions to the unusual problems that can confront a young wizard. He has a crush on Gigi, Alex 's enemy, but after the episode Graphic Novel, it is never mentioned again.

* David DeLuise - Jerry Russo, Justin, Alex, and Max's father. He runs the family's sandwich shop and trains the Russo kids in magic. When he was young, he was also a wizard. Jerry won the right to keep his powers by defeating his brother in the wizards' duel, but when he discovered that wizards can't marry mortals, he relinquished his powers to his brother to marry Theresa. He is very strict and overprotective as a magic teacher towards Alex, Justin, and Max, and he doesn't allow them to use magic in public and/or without supervision.

* Maria Canals Barrera - Theresa Russo, Jerry's wife and Justin, Alex, and Max's mother. Although she isn't a wizard, Theresa knows all about the magical world. She helps run the sandwich shop and is very motherly, often treating her children like six year olds, much to their disapproval. She also is known to get very emotional when she feels that her kids are growing up too fast, as shown in the episode "Movies".

* Jennifer Stone - Harper Finkle, Alex's best friend. She designs her own clothes (usually themed with food). She is hyper and optimistic. She has a big crush on Justin. Alex and Harper do a lot together. Originally, Harper didn't know of the wizard secret but in "Harper Knows", Alex tells her.

Recurring

* Amanda Tepe plays numerous characters. She appears as a random character who speaks with a boring drawl. Jobs she has held include department store manager, waitress, frozen yogurt store manager, hotel maitre'd, dog show security guard, the information desk lady at Volcano Land, and the art museum security guard, which was her latest job. At Volcano Land it shows that she may know something about magic herself due to that volcano land is a wizard theme park that only wizards can obtain access to. In the episode, "New Employee", her name tag says Amanda, however in "Art Museum Piece" she is referred to as Elaine. She has yet to appear in the second season.

* Gertrude "Gigi" Hollingsworth (Skyler Samuels) is Alex's rival. She has tried to embarrass Alex ever since they were in kindergarten when Gigi spilled juice on Alex's mat during naptime and said Alex had an "accident". Another one of Gigi's targets is Alex's best friend, Harper. Gigi's invited Harper to her annual tea party with the purpose of crowning her as the biggest loser at the tea. So far she has appeared in the episodes, "Crazy Ten Minute Sale", "Alex's Choice" and "Graphic Novel".

* Dean Moriarty (Daniel Samonas) - Dean is Alex's crush in Season 2. He makes temporary tattoos in the boy's bathroom and is interested in cars. Dean is shown as a bad-boy, and Justin and Harper disapprove of him. He is in a woodshop class and often gives Alex wooden gifts, which are basically assignments. In Saving WizTech, he finally gives Alex a wooden card that is not an assignment. Also in that episode, Alex realizes she loves Dean but does not tell him. Dean calls Alex "Russo", until he says in the letter that he should start calling her Alex.


* Headmaster Crumbs (Ian Abercrombie) Headmaster Crumbs is the headmaster of Wiz Tech. He is never seen without his incredibly long beard, even when he was a guinea pig. The only episode where he has been seen without his beard is in Saving Wiz Tech, Part 2 when Ronald Longcape Junior stole the beard. After he was defeated, Crumbs took his beard back. Crumbs is shown how to socilaise by Max in Saving Wiz Tech and has done some childish things, such as spitting over the edge of the Tower of Evil. In Saving Wiz Tech, he states to make he is 850 years old.


* Hugh Normus (Josh Sussman) Hugh Normus is a human-size giant. Despite his size, he has been shown to believe he is a giant despite carrying miniature objects. He states in Wiz Tech that he is supplied by this so his self esteem isn't bruised. He seems to be Alex's only friend in Wiz Tech and is also friends with Ronald Longcape Junior and Justin Russo. His name is a pun on the word enormous when he introduces himself to Alex and she says 'no, not really'. He may have siblings, saying he is from a litter of giants.


* Frankie (Paulie Litt) is Justin's rival. He seems to have a crush on Alex and Harper, and he is often seen scamming Justin. Although he is just a child, Frankie seems to have the personality of an old time Italian gangster. Frankie has a similar personality to Stanley in That's So Raven and Rico in Hannah Montana. They are all short in height, they seem to have a crush on the female main character, and they are seen scamming the brother of the female. He has so far appeared in the episodes "New Employee" and "Curb Your Dragon". In the credits he is referred to as "Joey".

* Riley (Brian Kubach) is the name of Alex's crush in "I Almost Drowned in a Chocolate Fountain" and "The Supernatural" and her boyfriend in "Alex's Spring Fling". He is on the baseball team, and obviously likes Alex just as much as she does him. He appears to be at Alex's level in most school subjects, such as Spanish. He also appears to be one of Justin's friends, and is on the baseball team with him.

* Zeke (Dan Benson) is Justin's best friend. They have been heard speaking their "alien language" in the episodeBaby Cupid. He is a year older than Justin. He is in the same advanced math class as Justin. He first appears in the episode "Movies", although he was called Zack. He later appeared in "Report Card", even though he is not called by his first name. The credits in that episode refer to him as "Friend".

Theme Song

The show's theme song is called "Everything is Not What It Seems", which was written by John Adair and Steve Hampton, who also wrote the theme songs to fellow Disney Channel original series The Suite Life of Zack & Cody and Phil of the Future. The theme song, performed by series star Gomez, is a techno-pop style theme (the music cues to signal commercial breaks and scene changes, also composed by Hampton and Adair, are styled similarly).


Selena Everything's Not What It Seems Lyrics

Well you know everything's gonna be a breeze
that the end will no doubt justify the means
You could fix any problem at the slightest ease
Yes, please...

Well you might find out It'll go to your head
When you write a report on a book you never read
With the snap of your fingers you can make your bed
That's what I said

Everything is not what it seems
When you can get all you wanted in your wildest dreams
You might run into trouble if you go to extremes
Because everything is not what it seems

Everything is not what it seems
When you can have what you want by the simplest of means
Be careful not to mess with the balance of things
Because everything is not what it seems

Selena Gomez, another of Disney's childstars
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/hashyo/SelenaGomez_wdo1.jpg

Selena Marie Gomez (born July 22, 1992) is an American actress and singer best known for playing Alex Russo on the Disney Channel Original Series, Wizards of Waverly Place. In 2008 she signed with Hollywood Records, and is currently working on her debut album, which is tentatively set to be released in the summer of 2009

Early life

Gomez, an only child, was raised in Grand Prairie, Texas. Her father, Ricardo Gomez, is from Mexico and her mother, Mandy Teefey, is of half Italian descent. She was named after Tejano music singer Selena and has met her family.Her mother is a former stage actress.

Early work

Gomez began her acting career at the age of seven, where she spent her birthday at an open casting call competing with thousands of others for a role in the hit children's television series Barney & Friends. She was cast as a recurring character named Gianna in seasons seven and eight.[7] Gomez appeared in national commercials for several companies including Wal-Mart, Hasbro and TGI Friday’s. In 2003 she was cast in the movie Spy Kids 3D for a small role. She made a small appearance in the made-for-television movie, Walker, Texas Ranger: Trial By Fire. That same year, she landed the lead role of Emily Grace Garcia alongside Lewis Parry in the movie Brain Zapped. This was her first main role in a film.

In 2004 Gomez was discovered by Disney, in their first worldwide casting search. Three weeks after the auditions in Dallas Texas, her hometown, she was invited to meet the Disney Channel programming executives, in Los Angeles. She was then cast as a guest star in the second season of of Disney Channel Original Series, The Suite Life of Zack & Cody as Gwen, in the episode "A Midsummer's Nightmare". Subsequently, she appeared in the second season of the Disney Channel Original Series, Hannah Montana as Hannah Montana's rival, Mikayla. She had appeared in two episodes, "I Want You to Want Me...To Go to Florida" and "That's What Friends Are For?". A Suite Life spinoff, Arwin!, was supposed to be the original Gomez vehicle, but was not picked up by Disney. She also took part as the lead character in another pilot, What's Stevie Thinking?, a spin-off of the Disney Channel Original Series, Lizzie McGuire, but it was also not picked up.

In 2007, she was cast in the lead role Alex Russo, the mischievous middle child, in the Disney Channel Original Series, Wizards of Waverly Place. The series premiered October 2007 on Disney Channel. Due to the success of the show, a second season was bought and it is currently airing.

In 2008, Gomez was involved in two feature films. The first, was a voice-over of the Mayor's 96 daughters, in the animated film, Horton Hears a Who!. She had shared this role with Samantha Droke. The second was a sequel to A Cinderella Story called Another Cinderella Story. She had played the role of a down on her luck high school dancer, named Mary. That same year, she was cast as Carter, an insecure tomboy in the upcoming Disney Channel Original Movie, Princess Protection Program alongside her friend, Demi Lovato.

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1700000/selena-g-selena-gomez-1716227-800-600.jpg

Gomez appeared on the olympic-based special miniseries, Disney Channel Games for the third annual show. Subsequently, she had hosted the second show of Studio DC: Almost Live, a special half-hour variety show that features The Muppets as well as Disney Channel stars. She had also made a small appearance on Jonas Brothers: Living the Dream.

On October 30, 2008, TV Guide reported that Gomez had launched her own production company, July Moon Productions. The newly formed company will partner with XYZ Films to create two star vehicles featuring Gomez


July Moon is important in Witchcraft btw
http://selenagomez.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=179&g2_serialNumber=1

Music

Gomez's music career began in 2006 when she had recorded the theme song for her first movie, Brain Zapped. She then went on to recording another theme song, "Everything Is Not What It Seems", for her Disney Channel Original Series, Wizards of Waverly Place. She contributed a cover of the classic song "Cruella de Vil" for the 101 Dalmatians platinum DVD; the song was also featured in DisneyMania 6. In 2008, she had made an appearance in the Jonas Brothers music video, "Burnin' Up". During this time, she recorded three songs for the movie, Another Cinderella Story, which she appears in. The songs were "Tell Me Something I Don't Know", "Bang a Drum" and "New Classic". She had also recorded one for the animated film Tinker Bell, called "Fly to Your Heart".

In 2008, just before her 16th birthday, she signed a non-exclusive record deal with Hollywood Records. She said that she will be forming a band, rather than being a solo artist. She is currently recording songs for her debut album, which is set for release in 2009. During an inverview at "Target Presents Variety’s Power of Youth", an event she had attended, Gomez stated: “Music is another of my passions, I’m working on my first album for Hollywood Records. It’ll be fun dance music, out next summer, and I’ll be doing a national tour.”

Gomez and co-star David Henrie had recorded a song called "Make It Happen" which premiered on the very first episode of Wizards of Waverly Place in 2009, Make It Happen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena_Gomez

http://www2.hoahoctro.vn/upload/20080502/phuonghanh/selena-gomez-mickey-mouse-08.jpg
http://miss-gomez.com/

[hunkahunka]

Could you give me a link to the Burroughs CIA connection.


Whilst looking I found this about Gysin

http://realitystudio.org/interviews/john-geiger/


Geiger: Gysin was a mythomaniac, so the hardest part was cutting through all the bullshit and that process was not always helped by his old friends. I had one of his acolytes tell me in hushed tones that Gysin had been CIA. Yeah right, the CIA’s going to recruit a rapacious gossip as an operative. Good cover though: gay, druggie, avant-garde artist. Couldn’t hide his moods, little more a state secret. Nobody’d ever guess that he was really passing the goods to Uncle Sam

I don't think there is yet any official/ proven/confirmed direct linking Burroughs to the CIA. The theory is that he was an asset, one of the first mind-controlled agents.(whose very purpose of creation was to perform
work that could not be directly linked to the CIA) imo, it is a matter of opinion as to what constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt in weighing
the evidence.


anyone interested in Cobain's death should see some of the bizarre projects Cobain was associated with prior to his death, and some of the CIA people he was directly involved with.

Cobain did the musical background for a William Burroughs-narrated tape, an audio excerpt from that author's book titled 'Exterminator'
(odd elements of bisexuality , heroin addiction, cannibalism and murder involved).

Cobain wanted Burroughs, a known homosexual activist, to cameo in his 'Heart Shaped Box' video,

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n8/faithfuck/burroughs.jpg
author, beatnik, and CIA killer William Burroughs
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s108/sataniksantah/William-S-Burroughs-w-gun.jpg
http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/Encyclopedia/BurroughsWilliam/burr2.jpg
and wrote in his journals that he wanted Burroughs to simulate a sexual assault on him. The plan was to depict Burroughs raping Cobain from behind and dying on top of him, and orgasming his life energy into Cobain , complete with medical footage of semen flowing through the interior of a pen*s. Burroughs declined the offer. Cobain considered Burroughs a sort of protege, a fellow bisexual/heroin addict/writer.
Here is the link proving it:

http://realitystudio.org/biography/william-s-burroughs-and-kurt-cobain-a-dossier/

It sounds like Cobain was attempting to involve Burroughs in the simulation of some sort of sex magick ritual. Ancient tribes have been known to perform rituals with the dying elders submitting to be ritually killed, and eaten, so that their life force may be passed on and live on in those who carry on afterward.

It has been said that Cobain was into the occult. Cobain likely had knowledge of real life sex magick or enochian rituals.

Burroughs is a noted occultist (OTO):
http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/2005/phantom.htm

check out this video on Burroughs bizarre life as a mind controlled assassin for the CIA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPjzxFyRjY



Here is some background on Burroughs , a video biography (featuring some interesting information re: Burrough's activities in murdering his wife, as an assassin for the CIA, and his weapons collection, homosexuality, drug addiction, being sent at 15 to a masonic Los Alamos training camp etc.:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=9198809969200913970&q=burroughs+biography&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Cobain may have been killed in some sort of ritual, either voluntarily or involuntarily.


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/courtney_lovewdaughter-satan.jpg
Courtney Love making satanic hand sign

Anyone interested in Cobain cannot miss seeing 'My Own Private Idaho' starring River Phoenix. It was made by Gus Van Sant , who was very close to the circle of people that Cobain was surrounded by all his life.
Van Sant lives in Portland, which is closely to the whole west coast Seattle scene.


I think 'My Own Private Idaho was loosely based on the type of life that
Cobain led prior to becoming successful in music.
The main character Mike, played by River Phoenix, is a homeless young Seattle drug addict who prostitutes himself to men to feed his drug habit. I have read that Cobain was himself a homeless drug addict who slept under a bridge and at the library , and hung around pickup spots (prostitution) to feed his drug habit. This was in the years before he became a successful musician.
Another interesting fact is that the main character suffered from narcolepsy, a condition in which sufferers of this disease pass out and fall into a sleeping state when under stress. Cobain was also narcoleptic .
The character in My Own Private Idaho is victimized by a brutal father and was from a broken home, and suffers 'blackout periods' where he does not know what happened.

It is also known that Cobain dabbled in the occult.

My Own Private Idaho was made by gay activist film maker Gus Van Sant, (WRITTEN AND DIRECTED) who also directed 'Last Days' , starring Michael Pitt, and loosely based on Cobain's last weeks of life.

Kurt Cobain and River Phoenix both were personal friends of Michael Stipe, another prominent gay rights advocate, and both Cobain and Phoenix died the same year.

Cobain and River Phoenix knew each other, and after the death of River Phoenix, Cobain dedicated a song to him at one of his concerts. Phoenix and Cobain died within six months of each other, both dead of heroin overdose.

My guess is that if Cobain saw 'My Own Private Idaho' when it came out in late October 1991, or later, it would have had a major personal impact on his psyche.

narcolepsy is a known trait of MKultra or Monarch projects


interesting but possibly useless tidbit:
Nirvana's hit record 'Never Mind' has an infant immersed in water on the cover, and MKUltra is known to begin conditioning subjects from infancy, with torture techniques that are known to include water boarding.
The main character in the movie My Own Private Idaho, Mike , is revealed to have been in a mental institution at the age of one, with his mentally unbalanced
mother. This would mean that Mike would have been situated perfectly to undergo mind control programming during infancy at the institute.

here is a clip of the beginning of My Own Private Idaho.
Notice one of the earliest scenes place in Seattle, before the story moves on to Idaho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwAftKY1ks&feature=related


the entire movie is there, in 11 ten minute pieces:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaVL0qW7lhM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llbj6UEQVIQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbacWabiOE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaK4YO0nXkc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI-Kx3YiCK0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMGbDxkpY8k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upjIW-cxT8Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LJs2osoQbQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuygD6ao_uw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aToYZaJjT8Y&feature=related

Check out River Phoenix's childhood being raised by the Children of God hippie cult:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/family/family5.html
Like Cobain, Phoenix was raised with a mission to be an entertainer from early age (like so many of them , from Judy Garland to Jon Benet Ramsey to Britney Spears, etc. etc. That's what the Mickey Mouse Club is all about , after all)

check out the trailer for the film 'Last Days' , based on the final
days of Kurt Cobain's life, and written and directed by Gus Van
Sant , the same guy who made My Own Private Idaho:
http://www.youtube.com/v/HFWnZW3esb8
If you watch 'Last Days' you will see Cobain going into the same narcoleptic sleep that Phoenix does in 'My Own Private Idaho', and both films were written and directed by Gus Van Sant.



Cobain compared himself to Frances Farmer, who was in and out of mental institutions, another possible 'project'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/FrancesFarmer_SonofFury.jpg
Farmer with Tyrone Power in Son of Fury (1942).

Here is a link to information on how Seattle-born actress Frances Farmer was allegedly abused by the psychiatric community, electroshocked, and even raped on military bases:

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/frances/index.htm


Farmer had been ridiculed, dismissed as a paranoid, raving lunatic at the time that she attempted to 'go public' with this information, but in light of what is now publicly known to have happened with MKUltra , Monarch, etc. ........Frances Farmer's story is really not as far-fetched now as it must have seemed back then, when virtually nothing was known about this type of secret activity.

It sounds like they attempted to turn her into a multiple.

Oddly enough, Farmer once worked at the Fairmont Olympic Hotel, another massive gothic rail hotel similar to the one that Cobain was staying at in Banff when given the lyrics. In fact it is part of the same Fairmont chain of hotels.

Here is a picture of Cobain meeting with homosexual author William Burroughs at his lakeside cottage residence just outside of Lawrence, Kansas in October 1993:
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/04/kurt_cobainwilliam_burroughs.jpg


This is a photo that Burroughs snapped of Cobain using the cottage toilet. ( Burroughs sent Cobain this photo on Cobain's 27th birthday:
http://realitystudio.org/images/paintings/burroughs_collage_for_cobain.2.jpg


this just gets weirder and weirder the more I look at it.

-Cobain met his idol, author William S. Burroughs, six months before his (Cobain's ) death in April 1994

-Burroughs was famous for having 'accidentally' shot his wife Joan, fatally, in the forehead, at a party in Mexico, (for which he was never imprisoned) in 1951

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006HAXZ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

-In the year 2000, Cobain's widow Courtney Love played the part of Burrough's murdered wife Joan in a film called 'Beat' , starring Kiefer Sutherland, which was a biographical film about
William S. Burroughs: http://imdb.com/title/tt0211941/

-the 1991 David Cronenberg film Naked Lunch ( http://imdb.com/title/tt0102511/ ) which was written by David Cronenberg , loosely reflects events in the life of author Burroughs as he wrote the novel Naked Lunch. The main character, writer Bill Lee, works as an 'exterminator' who 'kills bugs with drugs', is himself a drug addict working for the CIA, spies on drug operations in foreign countries, suffers hallucinations, and answers to a 'controller'.

Here is an example of the kind of metaphors, (what could be termed 'CIA metaphors') embedded in 'Naked Lunch':

In this scene, Peter Weller, (playing the part of William S. Burroughs) is forced to 'prove his credentials' before being allowed entry into the country of 'Annexia'.

So he shoots his wife in the head. At which point , he is told 'Welcome to Annexia'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9CwWpcwe78


It is, imo, a metaphor for how hard-core criminal/satanic secret societies demand that people make incredible personal sacrifices to prove their utter devotion and commitment to the group before being allowed to join:

In this case, William S. Burroughs, who is famous for having 'accidentally' shot his wife in the head, is depicted as actually having carried out the act as a means to gain entry to another secret level or realm of the network.



I have been finding a very close association between director Gus Van Sant and William S. Burroughs.
Van Sant did at least four projects involving William Burroughs, including a music CD, two short films,
and a motion picture:


Elvis Of Letters (1985) Music: William S. Burroughs,Gus Van Sant

The Discipline of DE (197 Gus Van Sant (9 min, 16 mm black and white, adaptation of William S. Burroughs' short story, narrated by Ken Shapiro) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLOCG7ETVu8

Thanksgiving Prayer (1991) Gus Van Sant (2 min, 35 mm color, written by and starring William S. Burroughs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=376pRakLvZU

Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1993) Gus Van Sant (feature length film, features a diverse cast [Keanu Reeves, Roseanne Barr, Uma Thurman, Rain Phoenix, and k.d. lang], with cameos by William S. Burroughs and Heather Graham,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrlxcg1r5jY


Some more interesting tidbits here:

Gus Van Sant wrote and directed 'Last Days' , a film about the final hours of Kurt Cobain.
Van Sant's 'My Own Private Idaho' features a 'Brokeback Mountain' style campfire scene between Keanu Reaves and River Phoenix
River Phoenix and Kurt Cobain died within six months of each other, both of a heroin overdose.
Gus Van Sant wrote and directed 'Even Cowgirls Get the Blues', a lesbian version of Brokeback Mountain.
Heath Ledger starred as a gay cowboy in Brokeback Mountain.
Peter Weller played the part of William S. Burroughs in 'Naked Lunch'
Peter Weller starred opposite Heath Ledger in 'The Order' .
Heath Ledger died, like Cobain , in his late twenties, alone, involving a drug overdose.

Everything I find out about Gus Van Sant leads to more connections to
this CIA activity.
He is now going to be directing a new film out next year called
'The Electric KoolAid Acid Test', http://slyoyster.com/moviestv/2007/gus-vant-sant-drinking-the-electric-kool-aid/


The book/movie based on a real event, and is all about a CIA-sponsored group called the 'The Merry Pranksters' who toured America in the mid-sixties, methodically distributing marijuana, amphetamines, and LSD.

Names connected to this group include Kesey, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Hunter Thompson, and even William Burroughs , who appeared at a Kesey organized hippy poetry festival in the mid-seventies.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/courtney_lovewdaughter-satan.jpg
Courtney Love making satanic hand sign

Cobain worshipped homosexual, drug addict author William Burroughs, who at one point visited Rome, and then lived at a house in Tangiers which was used as a child prostitution brothel , prostituting male Moroccan children to visiting male tourists.
The film 'My Own Private Idaho' depicts a Seattle 16 year old gay-male prostitute who has been living on the streets since he was twelve, is narcoleptic, suffers blackouts of missing time, and is transported around the world (including Rome). The boy's 'specialty' is apparently a propensity for passing out whenever he is told to disrobe for his customers. (could be some embedded mind control program, in that the act of disrobing under those circumstances is an embedded 'trigger', that makes him pass out or shift into his 'alter' state)

. The film 'My Own Private Idaho' appears to be showcasing the fruits of the labors of the CIA in some bizarre fashion.
Mike accusing his handler of selling his body for sex 'while he is asleep'.
Cobain is said to have once worked as a gay prostitute to feed his heroin habit, and toured Europe (including Rome) promoting a minor record before becoming famous with his second album. Cobain was also said to be narcoleptic, which has led to speculation that 'My Own Private Idaho' was a film depicting the exact sort of specimen that Cobain was prior to gaining fame as a musician.


Now listen to this bizarre reading by Burroughs , who always wrote semi-autobiographically , speaking of stealing a bag of severed limbs to feed his heroin habit (with , bizarrely, a heroin-addicted Kurt Cobain providing the background music. Cobain arranged to do this project with Burroughs, and later traveled to meet with Burroughs at his cottage) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pfd3OtPQoA#cDv82sCD0b4


First, it is as yet no certainty for me that Burroughs was CIA. I think it likely that he was. He says that he was almost recruited, and says that someone scuttled it for him, but who knows what the truth is ? Put it this way, if he had worked as a killer for the CIA, would he be eager to piss off the CIA by broadcasting that to the world?
Of course not. He would issue a denial of any relation to the CIA, if he knew what was good for him.

anyone interested in this should see his biography film on Google video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=9198809969200913970&q=burroughs+biography&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

it shows him posing with his weapons collection.
He always said "write what you know about" and openly admits that most of his work is semi-autobiographical, so when he starts writing doing heroin about a bag containing severed brown legs, it does get interesting.
He lived in Mexico, South America, Morrocco

from Wikipedia:
*
When he found Rome and Ansen’s company dreary, inspired by Paul Bowles' fiction, he decided to head for Tangier, Morocco.[13] In a home owned by a known procurer of homosexual prostitutes for visiting American and English men, he rented a room and began to write a large body of text that he personally referred to as Interzone[14]. Burroughs lived in Tangier for several months, before returning to the United States where he suffered several personal indignities- Ginsberg was in California and refused to see him, A. A. Wyn, the publisher of Junkie, was not forthcoming with his royalties and his parents were threatening to cut off his allowance. All signs pointed him back to Tangier, a place where his parents would have to continue the support and one where drugs were freely available. He left in November 1954 and spent the next four years there working on the fiction that would later become Naked Lunch, as well as attempting to write commercial articles about Tangier. He sent these writings to Ginsberg, his literary agent for Junkie, but none were published until 1989 when Interzone, a collection of short stories, was published. Under the strong influence of a marijuana confection known as majoun and a German-made opioid called Eukodol (oxycodone), Burroughs settled in to write. Eventually, Ginsberg and Kerouac, who had traveled to Tangier in 1957, helped Burroughs edit these episodes into Naked Lunch.[15]
*
another interesting fact is that Burroughs often forgot having written some of the material, the drug-addled writings got so biographical and so bizarre at points that it prompted some alarm among Kerouac and Ginsberg:
"Bill, what's all this stuff about boys being hung in limestone caves?"

Another interesting film to watch is David Cronenburg's Naked Lunch,
which is written by Cronenberg and not based directly on Burrough's book of that name, but a story about the main character who is a composite assembled by Cronenberg of William Burrough's various characters.
The main character is someone who talks of being on 'assignment' by his handlers, and travels on missions to different foreign locations, and in contact with dark skinned homosexual boy prostitutes. It also, grotesquely, mentions illicit trafficking in something called 'the real black meat', which is depicted as dead black bugs. In fact the main character is at one an exterminator who kills 'bugs' with
by spraying them with an overdose of addictive chemicals.

So here's this guy with a weapons collection who travels around the world with a heroin habit who writes stories about being under the control of handlers, a gay heroin addict, working as an 'exterminator' of 'black bugs' who seem to love the white powder
he sprays them with, and bags of severed legs etc.
Then I hear that Cobain did the background music for one of Burrough's
audio readings and it gets even weirder. I find out that Burroughs murdered his wife 'by accident' , shooting her in the head. I find out that Cobain worked
as homosexual teen prostitute to feed his heroin habit at one time before becoming successful in music and was later obsessed with William Burroughs.
Then I find out that after the heroin addicted Cobain was found shot in the head, with many speculating that his wife Courtney Love had motive to have him killed,Courtney goes on to a career as an actress, and to play the part of Burrough's murdered (shot in the head) wife Joan in the film 'Beat' which was based on the life of William Burroughs.

It has been said that Jeffrey Dahmer may have been MKUltra, some sort of MKUltra experiment gone wrong, or the fall guy for a group
of people who were involved. (anyone remember the story of how the police let Dahmer go when they caught him abusing a bleeding boy?
Ever wonder what type of hand signals or code words may have gotten Dahmer out of that situation? Or maybe they ran his name, and found
his file flagged with some sort of 'hands off' designation?)
Kay Griggs has said in interviews that she thinks Jeffrey Dahmer was connected to CIA black ops.

Jeffrey Dahmer preyed on young male heroin addicted prostitutes, many of them of black or foreign descent, and severed their limbs, etc.
I do think it would have been interesting to hear what William Burroughs thought of the Jeffery Dahmer situation. (I was not saying that I thought his audio story was based on Dahmer. I meant that Burroughs seemed to have prior knowledge of similar situations, so it would have been interesting to hear what he had to say about it.)

some interesting details of Burroughs' life:

- at 15 he was sent to a Masonic training camp known as 'ranch school'.
- he was a known member of the occult order the OTO
-Los Alamos ranch school was close and later morphed into a nuclear research facility/military installation and is known today as a center for near-death trauma conditioning (MK)

Also, I would not necessarily use the term 'CIA agent' in reference to Burroughs. The phrase that I used was "Burroughs was CIA",
ie: an asset , possibly an MKUltra mind controlled assassin who did not even officially work as a CIA agent, but was nonetheless an asset performing work for the agency under various 'alters'.
His writings seem to suggest involvement with alter egos, missing time,
violence, and narcotics .

This could also explain why someone high up ensured that Burroughs got away with fatally shooting his own wife in the head.

It is a common mafia tactic to demand proof that a commissioned hit has been carried out, in the form of a hand or finger provided from the corpse of the victim. Could this have been
extended to some cannibalistic urges, ie: victims become 'naked lunch' , bags of legs, etc.?

I would recommend that anyone who watches Naked Lunch watch it with an eye for metaphor.
The film could be a metaphor for what William Burroughs true life was.
It could be that he worked as an assassin for the CIA exterminating 'bugs' (bothersome targets, security risks, people who knew too much etc.), and that there is a sideline to this profession in selling the actual body parts of one's targets on some human flesh market.

Could this be what Dahmer truly was? Another Burroughs, who killed heroin junkies, 'projects', child prostitutes, drug mules, etc., for the CIA to shut them up once they had outlived their usefulness?

[hunkahunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrlxcg1r5jY


Something just crossed my mind about the title of a Gus Van Sant film
titled 'Even Cowgirls Get the Blues'.(Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1993) Gus Van Sant (feature length film, features a diverse cast [Keanu Reeves, Roseanne Barr, Uma Thurman, Rain Phoenix, and k.d. lang], with cameos by William S. Burroughs and Heather Graham

The film starred a whole cadre of mk victims, including Roseanne Barr who has gone
public and flat out stated that she thinks she is a mind control victim with a brain implant.

I am beginning to wonder if the term 'the blues' is somehow related
to the hot/cold trauma that BrownVelvet and others were posting about
with its corresponding 'red/blue' imaging so often seen.

Is 'the blues' some sort of code word for cold trauma conditioning?

It also reminds me of the gangsta/rap trend toward nicknaming people
after ice. Is there something more beyond the obvious cocaine /'ice' connotations here?

http://www.new-dream.de/image/wallpaper/musik/ice-cube/ice-cube-02.jpg

http://www.jacklail.com/blog/archives/vanillaice.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/iceberg187/IceT_GangstaRapcopy-1.jpg


Even cowgirls 'get the blues'? What might really be meant by this? Is Van Sant saying that no community is immune to programming?

Roseanne Barr know's she is an MK Ultra victim:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3763.html

Roseanne Barr interviewed on CNN Larry King (transcript):

Quote:
KING: All right, some see what you have or had as a serious psychological disorder.

ROSEANNE: I like how you just keep going.

KING: Others as psychological fad. Also...

ROSEANNE: A fad?

KING: Whether it's deliberately induced or naturally occurring.

ROSEANNE: Well, I have this head shrinker and he says it's deliberately induced because the CIA is where they started inducing it when after they brought all the Nazis over from Germany to run American Psychiatric Association.

KING: What are you about?

ROSEANNE: I'm telling you the truth. It is all mind control and all kinds of things to invent people with multiple personalities.

KING: So you have been captured by Nazis?

ROSEANNE: The government. Well in a way, I believe the government has implanted some kind of a chip into my head where...

KING: Roseanne.

ROSEANNE: You know, is monitored by Barbara Walters and these other women. And they take all my ideas and I'm, you know.

KING: Yes, is Oprah one of the people monitoring?

ROSEANNE: Of course.

KING: She's definitely in touch?

ROSEANNE: Definitely. I think she sits with her finger on the switch to the chip.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrFW2aYHVR8

[hunkahunka]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/sanyuja/BookCovers/EvenCowgirlsGetTheBlues.jpg
wings

http://www.noexit.co.uk/images/large/1842430246large.jpg
Skull n' Bones

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1117/916486416_b40afbb704.jpg?v=0
collage

http://www.lizdurrett.com/cowgirls.jpg
red/blue hot/cold Schutzstaffel/Sieg/SS lighting bolts/electroshock


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f2/d8/fab5828fd7a098b95cd07110._AA240_.L.jpg
rainbow, goat's head

http://www.thequeensdresserdrawers.com/Collage/EvenCowgirlsGettheBlues.jpg

[yeshua]

Wizards of Waverly Place
http://www.megacalendars.com/images/DDD596-2809_FC.jpg





Selena Everything's Not What It Seems Lyrics

Well you know everything's gonna be a breeze
that the end will no doubt justify the means
You could fix any problem at the slightest ease
Yes, please...

Well you might find out It'll go to your head
When you write a report on a book you never read
With the snap of your fingers you can make your bed
That's what I said

Everything is not what it seems
When you can get all you wanted in your wildest dreams
You might run into trouble if you go to extremes
Because everything is not what it seems

Everything is not what it seems
When you can have what you want by the simplest of means
Be careful not to mess with the balance of things
Because everything is not what it seems

Selena Gomez, another of Disney's childstars
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/hashyo/SelenaGomez_wdo1.jpg




July Moon is important in Witchcraft btw
http://selenagomez.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=179&g2_serialNumber=1



http://www2.hoahoctro.vn/upload/20080502/phuonghanh/selena-gomez-mickey-mouse-08.jpg
http://miss-gomez.com/

Great work, Soulja. Very informative.

[deathcultreject]

I must have slipped into an alternate universe.

I can't find "petals" on youtube.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mfT3n_vSnso

Is there something about the term 'surviver' that you guys have a problem with?

[hunkahunka]

click on image to enlarge

http://img156.imagevenue.com/loc870/th_09810_cobaintart_0001_122_870lo.jpg
Kurt Cobain with Krist Novoselic

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/video/stills/cast.jpg
Mike Parker far right

if Van Sant was casting for a Cobain lookalike, from memory of what Cobain had looked like during his young street hustler days, he may have settled on Mike Parker. The resemblance did not have to be exact either, as Parker and Cobain were both known to have used make up and indulged in cross dressing. At a guess, the two of them in full makeup would look quite similar.

[astrochicken]

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jEA3QmWuBm0

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.bluesnaggletooth12.com/goodies/nursery.jpg

Don't know if you can make anything of this?

Gene isis

Some good music on it though.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.bluesnaggletooth12.com/goodies/nursery.jpg

Don't know if you can make anything of this?

Gene isis

Some good music on it though.

gene isis is a pretty profound insight, thanks

[hunkahunka]

The Boy Scout / Freemason Connection

Earlier today, I was pointed towards some links and information about the Boy Scouts, in particular about their ranks, grades and badges. The whole thing was rather arcane and reminded me of a lot of things I’ve heard about Freemasonry and other fraternal men’s organizations. Especially this Scout ceremony (http://www.macscouter.com/Ceremony/Pack92Ceremony.html) regarding the so-called “Arrow of Light.” Check out the sort of religious-ritual quality of it (which I don’t mean in a denigrating way). I would love to collect some first-hand information from any readers who have been members of both groups. What are the similarities between the organizations and the experiences of members - if any?

While we’re waiting for responses on that, let’s look at some of the existing information about this online. There are lots of conspiratorial anti-Masonic bits and pieces floating around, but let’s start first with some legitimate info from a real Boy Scouts troop site. This comes straight from the Detroit Area Council of the BSA, on a page about something available to scouts called the Daniel Carter Beard Award:

The Freemasons have long been a strong supporter of the Boy Scouts of America by supporting the development of Scouting units, serving as volunteers, and assisting their Masonic lodges in forming and sponsoring Scout units. The relationship between individual Masons and Scouting, which has existed since the founding of Scouting in America, has resulted in great benefits for both Freemasonry and Scouting.

Daniel Carter Beard Awarrd KnotIt was created as a national Masonic Scouter award in June of 2001 and is administered by the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania as a service to all other regular Grand Lodges.

[...] Freemasonry’s relationship with the Boy Scouts started with a Freemason named Daniel Carter Beard. Beard was made a Mason in Mariner’s Lodge No. 67, New York City, NY, and later affiliated with Cornucopia Lodge 563, Flushing, NY. In the late 1800’s he founded a male youth program called the “Society of the Sons of Daniel Boone.” By 1905, the program had become “The Boy Pioneers.” The man who would create the first “Boy Scouts,” and be known as its founder, was Lord Robert Baden-Powell of Great Britain. Lord Baden-Powell, who was not a Mason, read of Beard’s program, and based on his own military experience, developed what is known as the “Boy Scouts.” In 1910, the Boy Scout program came to America when Beard merged his organization into the “Boy Scouts of America” and became its first National Commissioner.

Correction: it seems that this award is only granted to Master Masons who are active in the Scout community. CrystalLinks offers the following info regarding Masonic youth organizations:

There are also certain youth organizations (mainly North American) which are associated with Freemasonry, but are not necessarily Masonic in their content, such as the Order of DeMolay (for boys aged 12­21 who have Masonic sponsorship), Job’s Daughters (for girls aged 10-20 with proper Masonic relationship) and the International Order of the Rainbow for Girls (for girls 11­20 who have Masonic sponsorship). The Boy Scouts of America is not a Masonic organization, but was first nationally commissioned by Freemason Daniel Carter Beard. Beard exemplified the Masonic ideals throughout the Scouting program.

Another website devoted to the Baden-Powell fellow mentioned above, and written by a lifelong Scout & Mason:

The organizational pattern of achievement in Scouting and the Scottish Rite are similar: Tenderfoot, First Degree; Second Class, Second Degree; First Class, Third Degree; followed by stages of merit, like Chapters or Degrees, the one culminating in the Eagle, while the other culminating in the Double Eagle.

That the pattern in Scouting achievement resembles advancement in Freemasonry is no surprise. A scholar has pointed out that “the founder of the Boy Scouts, Lord Baden-Powell, was very closely inspired by the Masonic model, a fact that allowed the French Boy Scout organization to preserve its unity while grouping together Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and lay associations.” Scouts “trail,” Masons “travel.” To one who has experienced the progressive movement of both, the similarities of “trailing” and “traveling” are self-evident.

Pretty interesting stuff. I’m sure those connections will get anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists seeing red, but myself, I’d still like to hear some first-hand thoughts from people who have lots of experience in both organizations. What other common elements do these groups share? What are the implications of these connections culturally?

- END -

[hunkahunka]

Famous girl scouts:


Anderson, Melissa Sue – Actress (Little House on the Prairie)
Anderson, Marion— Singer
Arroyo, Martina — Soproano
Ball, Lucille – Comedienne
Bergen, Candace – Actress (Murphy Brown and Boston Legal)
Bergen, Polly – Actress
Black, Shirley Temple – Actress and US Ambassador
Carey, Mariah — Singer
Carlisle, Kitty — Actress
Carter, Lynda – Actress (Wonder Woman)
Cass, Peggy – Actress
Chafee, Susy — Entertainer
Danner, Blythe — Actress
Davis, Bette – Actress
Dee, Sandra — Actress
Dion, Celine —Singer
Fanning, Dakota --Actress
Fisher, Carrie — Actress, Author (Star Wars trilogy)
George, Phyllis – Actress
Hayes, Helen — Actress
Holm, Celeste — Actress
Kain, Karen – Prima ballerina
Kelly, Grace – Actress
Lamour, Dorothy – Actress
Lewis, Shari — Puppeteer
Lucci, Susan – Actress (All my Children)
Merchant, Natalie — Singer
Norman, Jessye — Opera Singer
Reynolds, Debbie — Actress
Rivera, Chita — Actress
Shore, Dinah – Actress
Star, Brenda — Singer
Stewart, Martha — TV Personality; Martha Stewart Living
Thomas, Marlo — Actress
Tiegs, Cheryl — Model
Turner, Kathleen – Actress (Romancing the Stone, War of the Roses…)
Tyler Moore, Mary – Actress (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
Warwick, Dionne — Singer


Albright, Madeleine — former US Secretary of State
Babbitt, Hattie — former US Ambassador, Organization of American States
Barshefsky, Charlene — US Trade Representative
Boggs, Corrinne C. — US Ambassador to the Vatican
Browner, Carol — former Administrator—Environmental Protection Agency
Collins, Martha Layne – former Governor of Kentucky
Coone, Jane — former US Ambassador to Bangladesh
Fenwick, Millicent — former US Representative to UN Food & Agriculture Org
Ferraro, Geraldine – former House Representative for New York and VP candidate
Grasso, Ella – former Governor of Connecticut
Herman, Alexis M. — former US Secretary of Labor
Hills, Carla — US Trade Representative
Kassenbaum, Nancy – Senator from Kansas
Kirkpatrick, Jeanne — Former US Ambassador to the United Nations
Klimova, Rita — US Ambassador, Czech & Slovah Federal Republic
Mink, Patsy – US House Representative from Hawaii
Mosley-Braun, Carol – former Senator for Illinois
Mikulski, Barbara – US Senator, Maryland
Ray, Dixie Lee – former Governor of Washington, Chair of the Atomic Energy Commission
Reno, Janet — former US Attorney General
Richardson, Margaret M. — Commissioner—IRS
Schroeder, Pat – first woman congressional representative for Colorado
Shalala, Donna — former US Secretary of Health and Human Service
Sauve, Jean — Former Governor-General of Canada
Swift, Jane – former Governor of Massachusetts



Bush, Laura — Wife of President George Bush, Jr (43rd President)
Laura Bush is also the honorary president of Girl Scouts, USA
Carter, Rosalyn— Wife of President Jimmy Carter (39th President)
Clinton, Chelsea — Daughter of Bill Clinton (42nd President)
Gore, Tipper — Wife of former VP Al Gore
Hoover, Lou Henry –Wife of President Herbert Hoover
Johnson Robb, Lynda, — Daughter of Lyndon B. Johnson (36th President)
Johnson Turpin, Luci, — Daughter of Lyndon B. Johnson (36th President)
Kennedy, Ethel — Wife of Robert Kennedy (Presidential candidate)
Mondale, Joan — Wife of former VP, Walter Mondale
Nixon, Pat – Wife of former President Richard Nixon (37th President)
Nixon Cox, Tricia — Daughter of Richard Nixon (37th President)
Nixon Eisenhower, Julie — Daughter of Richard Nixon (37th President)
Quayle, Marilyn — Wife of Former VP, Dan Quayle
Reagan, Nancy — Wife of Ronald Reagan (40th President)
Rodham Clinton, Hillary — US Senator & Wife of Bill Clinton (42nd President)
Wilson, Edith – Former First Lady, wife of Woodrow Wilson



Bellamy, Carol — Executive Director, UNICEF
Betanzos, Amalia — President/CEO, Wildcat Service Corp
Biggins, Veronica — Vice President, C&S Bank Corp
Chavez—Thompson, Linda — Executive Vice President, AFL—CIO
d'Harnoncourt, Annie — Director, CEO, Philadelphia Museum of Art
Diaz Dennis, Patricia — VP, Gov't Affairs, Sprint, Former FCC Comm
Dole, Elizabeth — Former President, American Red Cross
Falk, Susan — President, Express (clothing retailer)
Fernandez, Lillian — Former Director, Int'l Affairs, Pfizer, Inc
Fields, Pam – Mrs. Fields Cookies Founder
Heifer, Ricki Tigert — Former Chair, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
Juliber, Lois — President, Colgate Palmolive
Katen, Karen — Vice President, Pfizer
Marram, Ellen — Former President, Tropicana
Newkerk, Deborah — President, CEO, Saatchi & Saatchi
Roddick, Anita — Founder of The Body Shop
Yardis, Pam — President, Nat'l Organization of Mgmt. Consultants

EDUCATORS

Arnold, Sarah Louise – Dean of Simmons College
Ellis Alexander, Marianne — ED, Public Leadership Education Network
Fox, Muriel — Chair, National Organization of Women (NOW) Legal Defense & Education Fund
Futrell, Mary Hatwood — Former President, National Education Association
Hatwood Guttrell, Mary — Former Director, National Education Association
Jones, Elaine — Head of NAACP Legal Defense & Education Fund
McAuliffe, Christa – Teacher and Astronaut
McGuire, Patricia — President, Trinity College
Murphy MacGregor, Molly — ED, National Women's History Project

[hunkahunka]

Girl Scouts of the USA

These notable individuals were in the Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA). Also see Gold Award recipients.

* Val Ackerman, first President of the Women's National Basketball Association
* Madeleine Albright, first female United States Secretary of State
* Martha W. Barnett, second female president of the American Bar Association, partner in Holland & Knight LLP
* Candice Bergen, actress
* Bonnie Blair, speedskater and five time Olympic Gold Medalist
* Dr. Betsy Boze, Chief Executive Officer and Dean, Kent State University Stark
* Barbara Bush, former First Lady of the United States[3]
* Laura Bush, First Lady of the United States[3]
* Hillary Rodham Clinton, former First Lady of the United States and current United States Senator from New York
* Katie Couric, American media personality and first female solo anchor of a major evening network newscast in the United States
* Blythe Danner, Emmy-winning actress
* Marisol Deluna, fashion designer and founder of Deluna By Design, Inc.
* Elizabeth Dole, former president of the American Red Cross, United States Secretary of Transportation, and United States Secretary of Labor, current United States Senator from North Carolina and chair of the National Republican Senatorial Committee
* Dakota Fanning Scout; child actress
* Fergie; singer
* Tipper Gore, wife of former Vice President Al Gore[15]
* Dorothy Hamill, Olympic figure skater
* Glenda Hatchett, judge and television hostess
* Lou Henry Hoover Leader (National President); First Lady of the United States
* Dolores Huerta, Labor Leader[16]
* Tamara Jernigan, American astronaut
* Star Jones, lawyer and talk show hostess
* Gladys Kamakakuokalani, Hawaiian educator and community leader
* Billie Jean King, retired tennis player
* Ann Landers, columnist
* Shari Lewis, puppeteer and children's television show host
* Rebecca Lobo, college basketball analyst and former professional player in the Women's National Basketball Association
* Susan Lucci, Daytime Emmy award winning actress
* Kathy Mattea, singer[17]
* Mary Tyler Moore, Emmy-winning actress
* Carol Moseley-Braun, first black United States Senator, representing Illinois; unsuccessful Democratic candidate in the 2004 U.S. presidential election
* Janet Napolitano, governor of Arizona, First Class Girl Scout
* Marilyn Carlson Nelson, chairman and chief executive officer, Carlson Companies
* Sandra Day O'Connor, first female Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States
* Alma J. Powell, vice chair, America's Promise
* Nancy Reagan Scout; actress, First Lady of the United States
* Debbie Reynolds Scout and Leader; actress and singer
* Sally Ride, first American female astronaut
* Robin Roberts, newscaster[18]
* Esmeralda Santiago, Puerto Rican author
* Dorothy C. Stratton Leader (National Executive Director); college professor, director of the SPARS during World War II
* Martha Stewart, entrepreneur and television and magazine personality
* Kathryn D. Sullivan, former astronaut and first American woman to walk in space
* Mallory Tarcher, puppeteer and children's television show host
* Susan Taylor, editor-in-chief of Essence magazine
* Barbara Walters, first female network news anchor
* Vera Wang, fashion designer

These notable individuals were in the Boy Scouts of America (BSA).

* Hank Aaron, athlete (baseball), Silver Buffalo Award, often thought to be an Eagle because of an advertisement he did for the BSA
* Buzz Aldrin, astronaut and Tenderfoot Scout[19]
* Joseph P. Allen, First Class Scout, US astronaut STS-5 and STS-51A
* William A. Anders, Life Scout, Apollo 8 astronaut
* Clayton Anderson, First Class Scout, US astronaut[citation needed]
* Richard Dean Anderson, Tenderfoot Scout, taught Reptile Study, actor
* Michael A. Baker, Life Scout, STS-43, STS-52, STS-68, and STS-81 astronaut
* Charles F. Barber, Scout, CEO of American Smelting & Refining[citation needed]
* Charles Bassett, Life Scout, astronaut
* Alan L. Bean, First Class Scout,