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hunkahunka
29-11-2013, 04:20 AM
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060626052803/en.futurama/images/8/80/Slurm-1-.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dujbLBbZFF8/UCIK3LApU5I/AAAAAAAAAKo/WCxW4GEAnIA/s200/Ray_Charles_ride.jpg


http://www.tagtele.com/img/videos/thumbs640x360/6/9/9/85846_default.jpg

http://music.adme.ru/_dr/41/70342669.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL6dloBinQErG2MZmhojqKr51U3H_Ro NbWokP7fU7GEPxgLZfO

http://www.2risate.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ls03.jpg

wwiikkdd
29-11-2013, 06:33 AM
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060626052803/en.futurama/images/8/80/Slurm-1-.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dujbLBbZFF8/UCIK3LApU5I/AAAAAAAAAKo/WCxW4GEAnIA/s200/Ray_Charles_ride.jpg


http://www.tagtele.com/img/videos/thumbs640x360/6/9/9/85846_default.jpg

http://music.adme.ru/_dr/41/70342669.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL6dloBinQErG2MZmhojqKr51U3H_Ro NbWokP7fU7GEPxgLZfO

http://www.2risate.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ls03.jpg
Correct of the 'in your face' w/ most every step of the way. There is a rumored 'fair play' that the elites must abide by. This why they have not taken (NWO) control long ago. Do you know of addicted people to the soda wars? Mt Dew/Pepsi/Dr. Pepper/Coke! I see soda machines everywhere. The stores sell-stock the cases everywhere. Checkout lanes at Wally World? Tiny narrow coolers stocked full all times. Right outside the entryway a bank of machines. Always on sale at food stores. Connivence stores wall-to-wall soda+ the fountain dispensers 64 oz thirst busters. In '58 a soda was 10 oz bottle. In '75 COKE came out w/ the 32 oz bottle twist top.

hunkahunka
29-11-2013, 10:58 AM
Correct of the 'in your face' w/ most every step of the way. There is a rumored 'fair play' that the elites must abide by. This why they have not taken (NWO) control long ago. Do you know of addicted people to the soda wars? Mt Dew/Pepsi/Dr. Pepper/Coke! I see soda machines everywhere. The stores sell-stock the cases everywhere. Checkout lanes at Wally World? Tiny narrow coolers stocked full all times. Right outside the entryway a bank of machines. Always on sale at food stores. Connivence stores wall-to-wall soda+ the fountain dispensers 64 oz thirst busters. In '58 a soda was 10 oz bottle. In '75 COKE came out w/ the 32 oz bottle twist top.

http://www.sutherlandsurvey.com/Images/Columns08_images/Uh_Huh.jpg
QUOTE http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html
According to Lendon Smith, M.D. there is an enormous population suffering from side effects associated with aspartame, yet have no idea why drugs, supplements and herbs don’t relieve their symptoms. Then, there are users who don’t ‘appear’ to suffer immediate reactions at all. Even these individuals are susceptible to the long-term damage caused by excitatory amino acids, phenylalanine, methanol, and DKP.


Eye

blindness in one or both eyes

decreased vision and/or other eye problems such as: blurring, bright flashes,

squiggly lines, tunnel vision, decreased night vision

pain in one or both eyes

decreased tears

trouble with contact lenses

bulging eyes

hunkahunka
29-11-2013, 11:51 AM
Nice find. This Rogan seems like a handler/controller. The fighter is likely programed and w/his chosen field a underground fight to the death gladiator. Much like the Special Forces units, they can serve their masters in many ways.

the scary thing is that we have no way of knowing how advanced their amnesia drugs are now. Rohypnol could be , and probably is, just the tip of the iceberg as far as amnesiac agents go. Interesting name , too. Rohypnol.

George St. Pierrre is pretty famous, so at risk of sounding like a broken record, was his famous face and name used for ritual purposes? Could they drug him, hypnotize him, have him 'endorse' their event, and then return him home with no memory of that had happened to him?

hunkahunka
29-11-2013, 12:04 PM
interesting stuff alleging a Scientology connection to mk programming
with rohypnol/date rape drug.


http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/osa-date-rape-drug.htm

Subject: OSA Sex Drug Hypnosis (SDH) Procedure

OSA SEX-DRUG HYPNOSIS (SDH) PROCEDURE This is from the Secret Ops Hatting Pack used by The Church of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs (OSA). It is not only used on enemies but also on rebellious OSA operatives and even occasionally on important RPFers. If you suspect this has happened or get any somatics on reading it, get a meter and check if you have been SDHed and then check if the read is being suppressed by an implanted hypnotic command.
*************

SEX DRUG HYPNOSIS PROCEDURE

PDH is not effective on clears because the pain is blown out of the bank. SDH works because the thetan is still attached to sensation and will mockup compulsively if the sensation is intense enough. A hypno-drug such as Rohypnol is placed in the victim's drink. This will bring about a hypnotic trance in twenty to thirty minutes. The thetan is forcibly exteriorized much further away than with ordinary drugs, usualy resulting in total amnesia. The commands below ensure that the incident cannot be date/located or run with R3R. Some form of come-along is then used to take the victim to a hotel room. Since the victim will be very stupid and suggestible at this point, it is often enough to say that a beautiful girl is waiting to meet him or some similar story. Once in the hotel room, turn on the TV. Switch channels and tap on the screen saying "This is the real world", "This is happening now", and "This is where you really are" so that the victim will be loaded with false pictures to prevent spotting the real contents of the incident. Try to find a science fiction movie with space aliens so that the incident can also be mistaken for an alien abduction. Next the victim must be analy raped using a condom coated with cocaine. It is essential to include sexual sensation and a drug high in the incident to ensure that it remains in permanent restimulation. The earliest implants are held in place by pleasure instead of pain and the drug will make the rape pleasurable instead of resisted. If at all possible, the victim should not have an orgasm so that there will also be a sexual frustration and pull-in to ensure that the commands are not resisted. Female victims especially should be watched carefully and the operator must pull out if an orgasm seems immanent. After the sex is completed, seat the victim upright and read the following commands to them, stating each one with tone 40 intention and shaking the victims shoulders as each command is delivered.
ENGRAMIC PHRASES FOR USE IN DRUG HYPNOSIS SECTION 1. Here are your orders. You must listen.
You must obey.
You need this.
This is for your own good.
You'll never run this out.
This will not react on any meter.
This will not react on a lie detector.
This will not react on any electronic device.
You musn't let anybody find out about this.
You musn't let anybody know about this.
You musn't let anybody suspect that this incident exists.
You can't find out about this.
You would die if you knew.
You will die if you tell.
There is no time.
There is no date.
There is no duration.
This incident doesn't exist.
You do not know that it is happening.
The end is the beginning.
The beginning is the end.
It's later than it is.
It's earlier than it is.
You are before the beginning.
You are after the end.
You are not where you think you are.
You are somewhere else.
You were never here in the first place.
This has happened before.
It is 86 trillion years ago.
It is one million years ago.
It is ten thousand years ago.
It is one hundred years ago.
It happened yesterday.
It happened tomorrow.
It happened before you were born.
The incident is over.
It never happened in the first place.
All you see here is blackness.
You cannot move to the incident.
You cannot move through the incident.
It is all too confusing.
We am here to help you.
We am here to help mankind.
This will enable you to help others.
This will enable you to survive.
You will obey my orders.
The survival of mankind is at stake.
You want to obey my orders.
Obeying me will set you free.
You have no will of your own.
You have no choice but to obey me.
Do not think about this.
You cannot believe that this has happened.
If you look at this you will find something else.
You cannot tell anybody about it.
You will die if you tell.
You will kill yourself if you try to tell.
You will become sick and die if you find out about this.
Your waking self cannot remember this.
Your unconsious self cannot forget this.
You will always hide this from yourself.
You will obey without thinking.
It is important to obey without thinking.
It is glorious to obey without thinking.
It is beautiful to obey without thinking.
It is successfull to obey without thinking.
It is responsible to obey without thinking.
By obeying me you will save the world.
Here are your orders.

SECTION 2. Here you should insert any specific orders tailored to the victim.
SECTION 3. (For this a trigger phrase specific to the victim should be prepared and carefully recorded on an index card. The trigger phrase should be a nonsense rhyme that is not too difficult for an operator to say or remember but which will not occur in ordinary conversation. It can be used to introduce a hypnotic trance at a later date.)
Your conscious self is now in paradise.
All is wonderful.
Your dreams are fufilled.
What would you like to have?
(Note the answer down for future use.) Whenever you return to paradise you will have it.
But you cannot go there by yourself.
Somebody else must send you.
When you hear this jingle twice,
You will return to Paradise.
(Read the trigger phrase from the index card.) When you hear that phrase again,
You'll obey for its me or my men.
Here is the phrase again - (Read the trigger phrase from the index card a second time.) When you hear this, your conscious self will go to
Paradise and experience extasy while your unconsious
self recieves my orders which must be carried out or
else you will die.
Then I will tell you to come back to yourself and
awaken and then your conscious self will return from
paradise without remembering anything.
Only your unconsious self will remember this. If anything about this begins to come into consciousness,
you will become tired and fall asleep.
Do you understand? (The victim should say "Yes". If he does not, repeat Section 3.)
SECTION 4. My commands for you are complete. Be sure that you obey. Then the victim is returned to normal surroundings. If the operator is part of the normal surroundings, say "Come back to yourself and awaken" and then resume any conversation that was in progress when the hypnosis was started. Otherwise, pick some task for the victim to do and say "When you (task), you will come back to yourself and awaken." Then send the victim to do the task and leave the area before the awakening is triggered.
--------------------------------

joaquinatruth
29-11-2013, 05:18 PM
Wow, this ro"hypnol" info ties back into Cobain directly.
If there is a correlation to hynosis trance induction, I think its evident that not only was Courtney feeding these pills to Kurt likely without his knowledge (like 99% of rufies are given), but she was indeed popping extraordinary amounts of them herself, indicating she was a probably a practicing 'victim' of hypnotic suggestion as well. Remember Kurt's statement: "Courtney Love, of the sensational pop band Hole, is the best fuck I've ever had". Pretty sure the Scientologists arent the ones controlling the Cobain career and still-profitable estate, but if they are using the drug in that capacity, I'm sure government agencies can do it just as well....

wwiikkdd
30-11-2013, 02:18 AM
Many of Those post hypnotic commands are everyday catch phrases in both media and social interactions. So they become 'trigger' words to re-enforce the process without any effort! And the occasional phone call/email will 'trip their trigger' (sorry that was semi deliberate) and keep the deed fresh. I stopped the soda/fast food thing long ago. Same w/ TV & radio.

hunkahunka
01-12-2013, 03:13 PM
Audio:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2013/11/RIR-131129.php

Judy Byington interviewed : The story of Jenny Hill, a satanic ritual abuse survivor


listen here:
http://rediceradio.net/radio/2013/RIR-131129-judybyington-hr1.mp3

November 29, 2013
Judy Byington is a therapist, author and mental health supervisor and the founder and leader of Trauma Research Center, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing information through CEU accredited seminars and lectures on Dissociation and coordinating ritual abuse survivor group, therapeutic and legal resources. She also works as a consultant on satanic crime with the Utah Attorney General’s office. Judy has interviewed hundreds of ritual abuse survivors and continues to pen books about survivors like Jenny Hill who suffer repressed childhood memories of forced participation in rape, torture and murder. She joins us to discuss her book, Twenty-Two Faces, the story of a survivor-intended-victim of a human sacrificial ceremony, Jenny Hill. Judy details Jenny’s story of alleged satanic ritual abuse and her consequent dissociative identity disorder. We’ll talk about mind control, programming of alters and similar ritual abuse survivor accounts. In the member’s hour, we continue discussing Jenny Hill’s story. Judy responds to therapists who claim ritual abuse survivors such as Jenny are suffering from “false memory syndrome.” We’ll discuss commonly recalled ritual ceremony scenes, which seem to always involve children and drugs. Judy also talks about her encounter with a former freemason who heard about her research. Later, we discuss police investigations into missing children and detectives who do not believe ritual abuse cases are real.

hunkahunka
01-12-2013, 09:38 PM
There are a number of gigantic factories in the Augusta, Georgia area, including the Kimberly Clark factory just on the other side of the river, and of course the equally huge Proctor & Gamble factory, the massive Kellogg's plant....

You really have to wonder about all these mass-market consumer drone products being manufactured so close the big NSA/Fort Gordon installation and the Monsanto/Fort Gordon aspartame bio-weapon facility.
Also in this region are huge phosphate fertilizer and phosphate chemicals producer Prayon (prey-on) which manufactures phosphates used by Proctor & Gamble to make Tide and Crest and a huge number of other products as preservatives. They also make phosphoric acid which is an ingredient of Coca Cola, and fluoride (sodium flouride/hydrofluorsalicic acid) is a waste product of theirs which is added to Crest toothpaste, SSRI drugs, Rohypnol/sleeping pills and used to fluoridate Augusta's water supply. This area churns everything from Kotex to toilet paper to pharmaceuticals to Kelloggs cereal bars, cookies, cosmetics , soaps, over the counter medicines, prescription drugs etc.

Proctor & Gamble essentially owns and controls and creates daytime network television. (just have a look at their product list;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Procter_&_Gamble_brands , and while you are reading it, to any North American , anyway, its like watching afternoon television 'soap operas'.) The reason they call them soap operas is, you guessed it, they are "brought to you by Tide, Cheer, Bounty, Crest, Joy, Ivory Soap". May as well call them Proctor & Gamble Operas. Same goes for Soapra Winfrey and Ellen Detergenteres, its all feminist programming/brainwashing consumerism.

The Federal Reserve Bank was created on Jekyll Island, Georgia.

The Georgia Guidestones are 90 miles NW of Augusta.

The picture emerges of these Federal Reserve connected individuals as the
actual owners of these huge corporations and networks and factories,
and as being, very likely, the ones who created the Georgia Guidestones, and Aspartame, pharmaceuticals and fluoride etc. Hormonal disruptors, poisons, television
'programming' brainwashing mind control flicker rate crapola, you name it,
the elite have a hand in it. Consider for a moment that if diet soda can be GMO weaponized, then what are they capable of doing with things like skin creams, personal hygiene products, etc.?

Augusta Georgia is the perfect microcosm of their whole plan in action.
Recycled sewage going into the making of genetically engineered bioweapons, which are added directly to so many of the products which billions of trusting
people use every day.

The final kicker for me was the address of the Aspartame factory on the road
they created for it, and what they called the road: Lovers Lane.
This is the road that snakes along beside the Aspartame Factory, the sewage fertilizer plant, near the Phinizy Swamp sewage dump, not far from Kimberly Clark Kotex and diaper plant/smelly paper plant, the polluted Savannah River, etc.
1762 Lovers Lane, Augusta, GA

I did a search on year 1762 to see if it had any significance to history, didn't find much, if anyone could help it would be appreciated.

hunkahunka
01-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Note that in the previous maps Proctor & Gamble was right across the street
from the huge Phinizy Rd. mental hospital/prison complex in Augusta.
See it again here:

http://goo.gl/maps/Z1qtO (A marks the huge Department of Juvenile Justice Developmental Detention Center/prison farm in Augusta, GA, and B marks the Serenity Behavioral Health Systems mental ward/detox center hospital, C marks the the huge East Central Regional Psychiatric Hospital complex, and just to its South, D marks the huge
Charles B. Webster Detention Center at 1941 Phinizy Rd. E marks the enormous Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street)

That entire square region is one huge jail facility comprising various youth prisons, a prison farm, the East Central Psychiatric asylum, the Serenity Behavioral Health mental hospital/detox, and the Charles B. Webster Detention Center prison. The Procter & Gamble plant is right beside it, just East of this giant prison complex. Why the Proctor & Gamble plant is right beside this weird complex is anyones guess. I suspect they may be using the effluent from the complex to engineer many of the P&G products
right beside it. I speculated before that this whole prison complex may go deep into the ground and actually be the top of a vast interconnected underground complex. In that case, then the Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street could be part of that.


http://helpfreetheearth.com/img/Thrive_GambleLogo.jpg

in the following video (TV report on satanism at Proctor & Gamble) note that Proctor & Gambles' TV network edited their logo completely for this following news segment:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=106_1174419803

http://swiftreport.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/pg_satan_1.jpg

After public scrutiny and concern about the logo emerged in the 1980's , Proctor & Gamble first censored and then abandoned the 666 logo.

http://www.corporate-eye.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/procter-and-gamble-logo.png

joaquinatruth
02-12-2013, 05:36 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/07/02/352797/-Kurt-Loder-MTV-s-resident-reactionary

Intersting article about Kurt Loder, who in 1994, was the resident guru-in-chief at MTV News. Loder was on the front lines of the Cobain "suicide" mainstream media lie - when Kurt Loder read music news, it equated to automatic credibility of the story.


According to this article (as evidenced by his slanted, terribly written article about Michael Moore's film Sicko), Loder is a man with a bit of right-wing reactionary/Ann Coulter-loving tendencies. Reminds me of all the Rush Limbaugh-types that still gloat about Cobain's death to this very day. The crowd that hated Cobain when he was alive for his working-class hero ethics and progressive stances on women's and gay rights, and because he was more of a masculine heartthrob and attractive to ladies (without even trying) than they ever were...

hunkahunka
02-12-2013, 09:54 PM
http://music.adme.ru/_dr/41/70342669.jpg

notice the mirror going on in the above image

reminds of this:

http://www.mjworld.net/wp-content/uploads/The-Wiz.jpg
Michael Jackson in 'The Wiz'

recall this too, right about the same time (or just a few years later) :

http://richkidsbrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/jack1.jpg
Michael Jackson heavily sponsored by Pepsi

wwiikkdd
02-12-2013, 11:50 PM
Note that in the previous maps Proctor & Gamble was right across the street
from the huge Phinizy Rd. mental hospital/prison complex in Augusta.
See it again here:

http://goo.gl/maps/Z1qtO (A marks the huge Department of Juvenile Justice Developmental Detention Center/prison farm in Augusta, GA, and B marks the Serenity Behavioral Health Systems mental ward/detox center hospital, C marks the the huge East Central Regional Psychiatric Hospital complex, and just to its South, D marks the huge
Charles B. Webster Detention Center at 1941 Phinizy Rd. E marks the enormous Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street)

That entire square region is one huge jail facility comprising various youth prisons, a prison farm, the East Central Psychiatric asylum, the Serenity Behavioral Health mental hospital/detox, and the Charles B. Webster Detention Center prison. The Procter & Gamble plant is right beside it, just East of this giant prison complex. Why the Proctor & Gamble plant is right beside this weird complex is anyones guess. I suspect they may be using the effluent from the complex to engineer many of the P&G products
right beside it. I speculated before that this whole prison complex may go deep into the ground and actually be the top of a vast interconnected underground complex. In that case, then the Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street could be part of that.


http://helpfreetheearth.com/img/Thrive_GambleLogo.jpg

in the following video (TV report on satanism at Proctor & Gamble) note that Proctor & Gambles' TV network edited their logo completely for this following news segment:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=106_1174419803

http://swiftreport.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/pg_satan_1.jpg

After public scrutiny and concern about the logo emerged in the 1980's , Proctor & Gamble first censored and then abandoned the 666 logo.

http://www.corporate-eye.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/procter-and-gamble-logo.png

13 5 pointed stars in the P&G logo asa well.

hunkahunka
03-12-2013, 12:08 AM
Michael Jackson was burned during the filming of a Pepsi commercial, recall:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID26389/images/burned.jpg

hunkahunka
03-12-2013, 02:23 AM
13 5 pointed stars in the P&G logo as a well.


There's some creepy stuff going on with this whole Aspartame-Pepsi-Proctor & Gamble crowd, for sure. Remember Lenon Honor's analysis of the Michael Jackson hit song 'Beat It' as synonymous with group masturbation?

Watch one of Pepsi's Michael Jackson/ Pepsi Generation ads here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0jY4WvCIc

The street gang imagery in the ad is very similar to Michael Jackson's
'Beat It' video. (plenty of smiling, dancing, fancy clothes, leather, etc., and not
a female in sight, notice)

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/bin/imageserver.x/0003202c/jchalljr/jc025.jpg

http://www.marcocher-gibard.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Circle-Jerk-Poster-Web-400x600.jpg

http://www.dking-gallery.com/pix/Scrojo2/Jerks_0507.jpg

The Circle Jerks (band) appeared with Courtney Love in the 1987 Spaghetti Western spoof
film 'Straight to Hell'.

wwiikkdd
03-12-2013, 07:08 AM
Augusta Ga, World famous golf course. This place is loaded with way too many hits. Great find hunka.

hunkahunka
03-12-2013, 03:20 PM
Augusta Ga, World famous golf course. This place is loaded with way too many hits. Great find hunka.

yes, the Masters , definitely masonic. It must be like a big Fed Reserve/Jekyll Island/Georgia Guidestones convention there during the Masters Tournament.
There's a whole masters/servants thing going around golf too, with their entourages of caddies etc.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1266533!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/president-barack-obama-greets-professional-golfer-tiger-woods-oval-office.jpg
mk Twins Barry Soetoro (L) & Eldrick Woods (R) [aka Tiger Alabama]


http://www.laughspin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Masters_Logo.jpg

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/images/golf/masterstournament.JPG

http://www.loumarsh.ca/_media/pictures/2003-weir-10.jpg

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article779297.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Tiger%20Woods%20of%20the%20USA%20with%20the%20trop hy%20after%20winning%20the%20US%20Masters%20at%20A ugusta%201997-779297

Augusta National Golf Club

The idea for Augusta National originated with Bobby Jones, who wanted to build a golf course after his retirement from the game. He sought advice from Clifford Roberts, who later became the chairman of the club. They came across a piece of land in Augusta, Georgia, of which Jones said: "Perfect! And to think this ground has been lying here all these years waiting for someone to come along and lay a golf course upon it."[5] The land had been an indigo plantation in the early nineteenth century and a plant nursery since 1857.[6] Jones hired Alister MacKenzie to help design the course, and work began in 1931. The course formally opened in 1933, but MacKenzie died before the first Masters Tournament was played.[7]

joaquinatruth
03-12-2013, 04:38 PM
Where in the world is this quote from? Should someone ask Buzz and Dale? Why is it quoted as Cobain telling the Melvins "My wife paid someone to have me murdered." This is exactly the kind of statement that can be printed and completely overlooked by the mainstream media, indicating the cover-up of Cobain's murder is purposeful and powerful. Look into it for yourselves....


http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0502_prindle02.htm


Jello Biafra with the Melvins
Never Breathe What You Can't See
(Alternative Tentacles, 2004)

He's back! He's the man behind the mask -- and he's out of control! Jello Biafra, former lead singer of the the Dead Milkmen and Nomeasho, has returned to the fore with an album of loud, heavy punkaroll songs drawn from the skinflints of Aberdeen, Wash.'s The Melvins, a band of whom Kurt Cobain once said, "My wife paid someone to have me murdered."

billtheburger
06-12-2013, 03:19 PM
Back on page 299, you mention Holmes, Jack the Ripper & Bob Clark in a few consecutive posts.
What wasn't mention is the strange synchronicity that Bob Clark also made a film called Murder By Decree in which Sherlock Holmes tries to solve the mystery of Jack the Ripper.
It turns out it a masonic plot.
It's laced with symbols:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/murder_by_decree/ring.jpg
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/murder_by_decree/handshake.jpg
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/murder_by_decree/penal.jpg
Watson: "I say, Holmes. What is this mumbo jumbo?"
Holmes: "The handshake and the ring, Watson, are archaic rituals preserved by the thirty-third degree members of the secret order of freemasons."
Warren: "We are not a secret order!"
Holmes: "Your existence is no secret, Your rituals and membership are secrets you guard as closely as you may, which is why you removed the writing from the wall."
Holmes: "You did not remove that writing to protect Jews against antisemetic rage. The Juwes, or Juw-es, referred to, are from your own secret society of the Loyal Order of Freemasons
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/murder_by_decree/lodgehall.jpg

hunkahunka
06-12-2013, 07:06 PM
Bill, thanks for posting that. I had heard that Murder by Decree had been partially based on Stephen Knights' book/research on the Freemasons and Jack the Ripper. There has been considerable research and speculation that the Jack the Ripper murders and the HH Holmes murders are linked.
(More people may have been involved in these murders than one or two men)
It would not be surprising to find that these kills were done by essentially the same group of people. If so , then to whatever purpose this was done, it is probably still going on. Some sort of satanic group activity? Adrenachrome related? Ritual sacrifice? This sect's penchant for efficiency indicates that there could be several motives involved in one murder. Lets say, for example , a secret elite group routinely 'takes out' individuals who pose a threat to their network in some way or another. Why just silence/murder them, when you can go the whole route? Throw in the insurance job, the alchemical torture and bloodletting, the ritual trauma ceremony, the blackmail 'compromise' of those 'initiates' forced to take part, etc. and a good dose of sick sex and adrenaline rush with it? Ritual 'Hazing' taken to its ultimate extreme. .

" I dare you to eat that." Waste not, want not." etc.

Found this , someone has written a book on the subject of HH Holmes' links to the Jack the Ripper killings:


http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/chicago-doctor-h-h-holmes-was-jack-the-ripper/

http://bloodstainsthebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/blood1.jpg

Chicago Doctor H.H. Holmes Was Jack the Ripper?
Added by Kimberly Ruble on October 20, 2013.

A book has recently been released by the author Jeff Mudgett who claims he knows without a doubt who Jack the Ripper truly was, and that was his own great-great-grandfather and Chicago doctor, H. H. Holmes. The story is both brutal and riveting and focuses on his family member who was considered America’s 1st and most infamous serial killer.

In the book entitled Bloodstains, Jeff has a theory that Herman Webster Mudgett, which was Holmes real name may also have been the notorious fiend ‘Jack the Ripper.’ The evidence he presents inside the pages he wrote are fascinating to say the least.

During the time period that the horrific Ripper murders were occurring in England, H.H. Holmes was not seen or accounted for anywhere in the United States. Yet, after they were over he was back in Chicago, stated the Chicago Tribune.

Is it possible that two of the most infamous serial killers of the 19th century could be the same man? This idea made Jeff start looking into the monstrous crimes of his ancestor and the investigation took an even darker turn, when he began to notice parallels between how Holmes and that of Jack the Ripper worked.

He stated that writing samples from his notorious family member which have been examined by experts suggest that Holmes and Jack the Ripper was, indeed, the same person.

One handwriting expert put the two samples into a computer program that stated there was almost a 98 percent chance that H.H. Holmes’ handwriting matched with an infamous Jack the Ripper letter was a match. The computer program used was one that is owned by the Department of Justice.

H.H. Holmes confessed to killing 27 people in the late 1890s, but it is believed he possibly could have murdered as many as 200 people. He also had a very similar way of killing his victims compared to Jack the Ripper. After he performed the deeds, Holmes would then dissect the corpses, and sell the skeletons to medical schools. He had a sort of friendly repose with them so he was able to get away with it without any sort of notice at the time.

Jack the Ripper would take the internal organs of his victims and mutilate them in ways in which caused many to believe the killer was surgically trained, that he must have been a doctor.

The Chicago Tribune has looked at this case and has written on it. They reported that H.H. Holmes allegedly trekked to London in 1888. This was the very year that Jack the Ripper committed his ghastly crimes.

Some critics have blasted Mudgett for his book, saying he is just trying to sell non-sense to make money, but he responds to the criticism with saying the proof is in his book and in history itself.

Jack the Ripper is believed to have killed five prostitutes in London during the year 1888. Jack the Ripper got that terrible title because of how this unknown killer ripped open the bodies of his victims. They were people who lived in the poor and immigrant communities, and it is believed that Jack the Ripper went specifically after female prostitutes. He would slash their throats before he defaced their internal organs.

After he returned to the United States, H.H. was eventually caught and admitted to only 27 murders and was then hanged in May 1896. He had been married at least three times and had an unknown total of children with all his spouses.

Jeff only found out of his frightening heritage when his grandmother began to investigate their ancestry because she wanted to know more about their family tree. He got this information of his family at 40 years of age, and it left him questioning everything about his family and himself.

The identity of Jack the Ripper has remained unknown all these years but he may now have been found in the identify of Chicago doctor H.H. Holmes. The Ripper has become one of the world’s most famous killers, even now over 100 years after his deadly spree.



Written by: Kimberly Ruble

hunkahunka
08-12-2013, 04:19 AM
Here, I fixed it for them.

IT'SHIT, the Jesuit-preferred San Francisco treat™
http://i.imgur.com/Elo1eV8.jpg


good shit lollypop:


http://zielcreative.com/studeo/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ItsIt_SuperSundae_3BarsBox.jpg

eponatherapy
08-12-2013, 12:40 PM
I have been reading this thread from the beginning over the last few weeks.
I've read some crazy things...... Proper boxed my head in at times.
It's a bummer that lots of the links are dead and the images have gone but I understand why.
Will I ever catch up?.......
Just muttering out loud :D

ETA: I'm on page 86.......

hunkahunka
09-12-2013, 04:24 PM
I have been reading this thread from the beginning over the last few weeks.
I've read some crazy things...... Proper boxed my head in at times.
It's a bummer that lots of the links are dead and the images have gone but I understand why.
Will I ever catch up?.......
Just muttering out loud :D

ETA: I'm on page 86.......

yes, its a pity that the government is editing Youtube so heavily.
Did you know that Google was essentially created by the NSA? The
search engine/indexing software/tech which was used to create Google
was originally used to sort&search the massive data mines of Project Echelon
and similar NSA spy installations. Don't even get me started on the spy satellite technology which was passed from the military, after forty odd years of use, to Google and on to public usage.

In the seventies, and eighties and nineties, remember the ridiculously crude & blurry 'spy satellite images' they would occasionally put in/on the news? Headlines like

'Leaked satellite images reveal worrisome military buildup on coast, border'.

http://asset1.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/ne/p/2008/corona01_468x600.jpg
NBC has received disturbing blurry images of fuzzy blobs near the Chinese coast and border. Joining us, via crystal clear satellite broadcast technology, to cap tonights worry panel is prominent fuzzy blob expert and former military attache to Tim Buk Tu, Bergen Bergstein:


"Well, Bergen , you've seen the images too. In your expert opinion uh......are you worried? "

"You might put it that way, Barbara. This is the largest number of fuzzy blob looking blips I've seen in the past six months of this."

"Past six months of worrisome , disturbing escalation?"

"Six m....? Uh, yes, Barbara . That's exactly what worries me. Its escalating, and yes, it is disturbing. Extremely disturbing. And not just six months. Six and a half months. I will correct you there. I should take a moment here to caution people about throwing around numbers arbitrarily like that too. It is even more cause for worry."

"Yes, I see that you are both balding and appear to be perspiring. You are clearly worried. Thanks so much for joining us, Bergen, please keep up the good work. See you Saturday."

"Always a pleasure to join you via live, color, highly detailed satellite-linked cam surveillance of my sweaty dome and nose pores Barbara."

"Sorry, Bergen, we appear to have the lost the signal, we missed that last part."

"We apologize for the technical difficulties... Bergen Bergstein
will be joining us again, and will join our worry panel again on Saturday. Don't miss this special NBS investigative feature "Soviet spy technology. How far have they gone?" Saturday, 7 pm. Central Standard Time (check your local listings for broadcast schedule times in your area)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


For decades they created the impression that spy satellite tech was pathetic,


while it is so obvious today that these people must have had the miltary intelligence equivalent of real-time Google Earth/Google Satellite decades ago. How long ago is anyones guess. They were publicly shooting Satellites up into space as long ago as 1957 (with Sputnik 1). Its easy to imagine secret military satellites dating back to the 1940s. They had rocket technology in the 1940s.

Sixty or seventy years later, they are so confident in their control grid that they decide to let the general public play around with PC's and military grade spy satellites.

The scuttlebut is that today they have the capability of reading the newspaper of someone sitting on a park bench.

So, yeah, the NSA censor Youtube. They own Google, and Google owns Youtube.

Phil Jayhan at LetsRoll forums had his own independent video hosting site, where some of the videos in this thread had been placed out of the reach
of the NSA. He was threatened with prosecution and financial ruin if he did not shut the site down. So now it is gone, along with some of the better videos in this thread.

America is being depopulated and evacuated into an empty
'Vacationland for lawyers in love', as Jackson Browne once put it.

joaquinatruth
09-12-2013, 04:50 PM
I have been reading this thread from the beginning over the last few weeks.
I've read some crazy things...... Proper boxed my head in at times.
It's a bummer that lots of the links are dead and the images have gone but I understand why.
Will I ever catch up?.......
Just muttering out loud :D

ETA: I'm on page 86.......




Just a heads-up - I had read through this entire thread and was very fascinated as well, then I learned simultaneously what "disinformation" is. This thread does not get into Cobain and his murder very much, and its definitely not popular here to try to actually discuss any real details about the case. I suppose the folks directly involved in the cover-up/theft of money are still very interested in keeping this topic shut down.

See Dave McGowan's material on the Laurel Canyon manufactured music scene, and then you can follow the pattern right into the grunge days of 1991....it will all make more sense when you look at it through that lense.

hunkahunka
09-12-2013, 05:27 PM
This thread is not disinformation. This thread has been attacked by trolls, many of the video links have mysteriously disappeared just days after being posted. One of the worst trolls in this thread (Ragnarok)was actually taken on as a volunteer moderator at the forum just days after being a nuisance here. (even mentioning this goes against my policy of ignoring trolls, but its pertinent to this discussion)
The latest forum 'bug' is that youtube videos can now no longer be embedded here, and I am now occasionally banned for posting 'off-topic' in this thread, which has been going regularly for over five years without a hitch until some censors decided to try to make life difficult for us here. On top of all the other 'glitches' and 'bugs' which have come along.
If we contributors to this thread hadn't revived the topic of Cobain's death years ago, it would probably have been largely forgotten by now. We've probably added considerably to the shelf life of Courtney Loves income stream from her three-hit-wonder dead husband's twenty year old music catalog too.

The hosts and site admins of the David Icke forum have a gigantic task at hand in moderating this huge forum, btw. So let it not be said that anyone is unfairly pointing fingers at them. Of course they will be infiltrated and hacked and sabotaged by people with no good intentions for the prosperity of this forum.

If you want nothing but "Mr. Green may have done it with the candlestick in the Billiards room" type posts on the whole question of who may have murdered Cobain, if he was even murdered at all, too bad.
Reminder, the title of this thread is 'Cobain murdered by CIA', btw., and that is one of a hell
of a premise to start with.

The answer to why the CIA might have killed Cobain is likely far more complicated than most people
are capable of understanding, until they have a thorough grasp of how things really work, and what similar occurrences have happened in the past to other people, the stakes involved in controlling public opinion, the level of control exerted in response, and a detailed understanding of what Cobain was really involved in. This thread has done and is doing a brilliantly thorough job of searching out that information.
You are welcome to start your own thread on the topic. We'll see how much work you are willing to put into establishing a readership of it, and how long it lasts.

hunkahunka
10-12-2013, 04:04 AM
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/GM_186.jpg

Audio:

Jan Irvin of Gnostic Media interviews Dave McGowan on his new book,
“The CIA and the “Magic” of Laurel Canyon – Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream”

listen here
http://media.blubrry.com/gnosticmedia/p/www.gnosticmedia.com/podcast/GnosticMedia_PC_186_DaveMcGowan_CIALaurelCanyon_md .mp3

Please order the book. I hear Dave is being gang-stalked and harassed
etc. as punishment for sharing his research. Order here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1909394122?ie=UTF8&creativeASIN=1909394122&linkCode=xm2&tag=gnosmedi-20

more of Dave McGowans books here:

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/reading/

hunkahunka
10-12-2013, 04:53 PM
http://www.ospaint.com/wp-content/uploads/GreggnSkullFLHX-400px.jpg
Gregg Allman with one of his Harley Davidsons

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Q7yw_dK3Ek/T-0N-7ey54I/AAAAAAAAHHY/rpBKjRQNxAU/s1600/73908860.jpg

Cher married Daytona Beach biker Gregg Allman in 1975, after breaking off her relationship with David Geffen. Interesting is that David Geffen was once the manager for biker band Crosby, Stills, and Nash, at the time that they played the famous 1969 bikercentric Altamont Speedway Free Festival featuring the Hells Angels as security and biker/Hells Angels band The Grateful Dead. Geffen also later signed biker rocker Neil Young to his label.

http://bikerexcalibur.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/cher26motorcycle002.jpg?w=300
Cher driving motorcycle

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/24/article-2193266-14A04D05000005DC-19_634x710.jpg
Cher with Hells Angels boyfriend Tim Medvetz
http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID26367.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/23/article-1332357-0952F4E2000005DC-663_196x384.jpg
Cher played the role of a biker gang mom in the 1985 film Mask

video of Gregg Allman playing biker week at Sturgis, South Dakota (gigantic Hells Angels rally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZFJ_wtyQtk

This article contains some more interesting facts on David Geffen. Geffen signed occultists Elton John/Bernie Taupin to his label at one point

Mogul's perpetual reinvention revealed in PBS documentary

It’s always fun to review the worst decisions of people who are famous for making smart decisions.

A case in point is David Geffen, whose remarkable exploits are celebrated in a new PBS “American Masters” documentary that premieres Nov. 20.

Now I have always felt a personal fealty for Geffen, but here are some Geffen gaffes: As a hot young Warner Bros. film executive, Geffen decided to tell Clint Eastwood how to re-edit his new movie. (Geffen was fired.) Eager to build his record companies, he overpaid advances for some stars (Elton John), sued others who underperformed (Neil Young) and was busted sneaking pot on a plane intended for David Crosby. Though always wary about reporters, Geffen nonetheless created such a burst of publicity over his affair with Cher (“my only heterosexual relationship”) that he submitted to 10 years of therapy when she dumped him for Greg Allman.

Some Geffen friends would include his feuds on this list — his obsession to exterminate Michael Ovitz, his battles with Brad Grey over the DreamWorks-Paramount deal and even, on the political front, his attacks of Hillary Clinton after Geffen joined the Obama camp four years ago. Geffen watchers have even challenged the wisdom of his decision to co-found DreamWorks, a venture that created some outstanding pictures but never became the major studio heralded in its buildup.

Second-guessing Geffen may be amusing, but the fact remains that his missteps were dwarfed by his long list of brilliant and brazen accomplishments. Thanks to his hits in music, film and the theater, the billionaire showman can smile down on his critics from his vast estate, once owned by Jack Warner, with its rolling lawns, bubbling waterfalls and superbly displayed art collection.

Titled “Inventing David Geffen,” the PBS take on Geffen’s life (directed by Susan Lacy) will be heralded at a party Nov. 5 in New York hosted by the customary circle of friends (Mike Nichols and Barry Diller included). Geffen may drop by, even though, as he approaches his 70th birthday, he is far from the party animal of his former years.

The new and calmer Geffen is taking a closer interest in philanthropy and art, assuming a less active role in DreamWorks Animation (he’s an adviser, not a board member) and is even taking a back seat during the presidential campaign (he is not an avid fund-raiser like his friend Jeffrey Katzenberg). Some suspect Geffen may be following the teachings of the philosopher Epicurus that “friendship and reflection are the bounties of old age.”

But the Geffen we’re reminded of in the PBS doc is the ferocious young Brooklyn kid who faked his application to the William Morris Agency (he claimed to be a UCLA graduate) and taught himself to read deal memos upside down so he could figure out what the senior agents were getting in their mail. As he started signing music clients, Geffen quickly understood he had come along at the right time. Just hovering around the Troubador meant contact with Jackson Brown, the Eagles, Crosby Stills and Nash and Laura Nyro, all of whom ultimately became recruits for his Asylum Records. Part of Geffen’s genius was to know when to sell, first to Warner, later to Universal (though some of his stars resented his new corporate cloak).

Geffen says his “Mount Everest moment” occurred in the mid-’70s when he recruited Bob Dylan for a national tour. But his highs were always followed by lows — a cancer diagnosis (it proved to be false), the implosion of Geffen Records. Displaying his mastery at reinvention, Geffen propelled himself out of one low by creating the Geffen Co., backing such idiosyncratic films as “Risky Business,” “Beetlejuice” and “Little Shop of Horrors.”

On a personal note, I have run into Geffen over the years during his good times and bad (and during my good times and bad) and always found him to be the same — empathetic, impeccably gracious and intellectually curious. I am thus grateful to have never been a victim either of his rages or his gaffes. Thanks to sharp editing and directing, the PBS doc is as vivid as Geffen’s personality.

hunkahunka
10-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Guess the rumors about bikers and leather/bondage homosexual gang rape initiations etc. are true

http://www.eltonfan.net/images/ej_harley.jpg
Elton John playing at Harley-Davidson's 100th anniversary bash on August 31, 2003 at Veterans Park


Flashback: Elton John silences the Harley roar

Published Sept. 1, 2008
Originally published Sept. 1, 2003

Unfortunately, OnMilwaukee.com was right in predicting that Elton John would headline the secret Harley show Sunday night. John, along with Tim McGraw, Kid Rock and the Doobie Brothers comprised the lineup of the baffling, yet packed, show at Veteran's Park.

A deafening hush came over the enormous crowd as it realized the big secret was John, hardly a rocking choice for a group that came to party. With the Harley folks clad in black, it looked more like a funeral as the stunned crowd stood motionless as John launched into his set of new, soft rock tunes and old favorites. Then, people started to leave. In droves.

Elton John. Elton John? He's not American, certainly not very manly, and far from hard rock. The last rocking song from John came at a time when H-D was still owned by AMF.

After a few new songs, John played his classics, like "Daniel," "Rocket Man,""The Bitch Is Back" and "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues." But the damage was already done. The once jam-packed crowd began to thin out. Perhaps, though this is just a guess, as many as 30 percent of the audience just went home. John didn't help his cause by announcing to the crowd, "I'd play you a song about motorcycles, but I don't have any."

Anticipation has been building for weeks about who would play the final night of the Harley party. An overweight and not very funny Dan Aykroyd served as emcee of the event, improvising between acts and stalling for time. Hearing his "Rubber Biscuit" routine was almost painful. He thanked everyone, including the guy who co-wrote "Coneheads" -- twice. Of course, in the litany of thank-you's Sunday night -- to riders, veterans, Willie G., etc. -- none of the presenters thought to thank Milwaukee itself for hosting the party. Oh well.

Eventually, Aykroyd introduced The Doobie Brothers, who played the kind of greatest hits set you'd expect to hear at State Fair. Solid, but sleepy.

Tim McGraw took the stage next. He played flawlessly, but this crowd came to rock. And that they did, when McGraw introduced Kid Rock. Clearly the highlight of the evening, he got the crowd going with a handful of anthems like "Cowboy."

After a long and uncomfortable wait, John emerged as the final act. As one woman in the generally disappointed crowd said, "It would be a good show, but not tonight."

John's best moment of the concert came when he brought McGraw out to join him in "Tiny Dancer" and Kid Rock for "Saturday Night's Alright." Tepid applause brought him out for a brief encore.

All the performers sounded great, but one has to wonder what Harley executives were thinking by bringing the guy who sang the "Lion King" theme to a party that was supposed to be completely bad-ass. Whichever intern at Harley who ran that focus group needs to be fired, since he completely missed the boat on his target demo. Maybe someone should have listened to the emcee before the show, who asked the crowd who they were hoping to see. They cheered for U2, Bruce Springsteen, The Rolling Stones, KISS, you name it. But they booed for John. Granted, a few people did seem to enjoy John's act. The others stayed just because they waited three hours to hear some music (or hung out in line for nearly as long just to get a slice of pizza).

The one redeeming moment came after John left the stage, when organizers set off the biggest and loudest fireworks and confetti display Milwaukee has ever seen. Hopefully, the crowd went home with one positive memory of the most underwhelming show of the year.

It was clearly a lackluster finale to an otherwise spectacular week. Milwaukeeans took the giant crowds in stride. The police acted like champs, staying mellow and reacting only when emergencies arose. Even the bikers themselves remained well-behaved and orderly.

Unfortunately, they were also nearly lulled to sleep with the surprise dud that unfolded to the dismay of thousands.

Maybe Harley can coax Cher out of retirement for the 105th anniversary.

sarge sharpei
12-12-2013, 04:43 AM
This thread is excellent for people wanting to explore, I recommend it highly for people researching other stuff and to get a image of the 'big picture' so to speak. Cannot believe they are censoring youtube that much now, its happened on my thread also.

Great work here, hunka and others: I tell a lot of my friends new to alternate media to start here :).

hunkahunka
13-12-2013, 10:35 PM
New Reports Claim that Brittany Murphy Was Under Surveillance and Poisoned to Death

http://i2.wp.com/vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/video-undefined-197CC5D700000578-741_636x358-e1384957207192.jpg?resize=500%2C281

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/new-reports-claim-brittany-murphy-heavy-surveillance-poisoned-death/#wJ2jYmFBsRc9yUv4.99

Ever since her untimely death at the young age of 32, Brittany Murphy’s father Angelo Bertolotti has been claiming that his daughter was murdered. Brittany was found dead on December 20th 2009 and her husband, Simon Jack, was found dead just five months later on May 23rd 2010 – in the same bedroom and under the same circumstances. According to authorities, the cause of Brittany’s death was “pneumonia, anemia and a toxic cocktail of drugs”.

However, new tests conducted by independent Carlson Company laboratories have found that high amounts of ten heavy metals were found in Brittany’s system at the time of her death. The lab report even goes as far as stating there was “likely criminal intent”.

“Ten (10) of the heavy metals evaluated were detected at levels higher that the WHO [The World Health Organization] high levels. Testing the hair strand sample identified as “back of the head” we have detected ten (10) heavy metals at levels above the WHO high levels recommendation. If we were to eliminate the possibility of a simultaneous accidental heavy metals exposure to the sample donor then the only logical explanation would be an exposure to these metals (toxins) administered by a third party perpetrator with likely criminal intent.”
- Examiner.com, Brittany Murphy did not die of natural causes, lab report shows

These new test results now lead observers to believe that Murphy was probably given rat poison or a similar product.

“Heavy metals are found in most rodenticides and insecticides meaning the actress could have been slipped rat poisoning or bug killer.

At the time of her death, Brittany displayed all the symptoms of heavy metal poisoning including: headaches, dizziness, abdominal cramps, coughing, sweating, disorientation, wheezing, congestion and pneumonia.

Mr Monjack also exhibited similar symptoms before his death, leading some to believe he too was poisoned.”
- Mail Online, Revealed: Brittany Murphy ‘was poisoned by government spooks in revenge for star’s support of whistleblower’, claims her grief-striken father

Brittany Murphy’s was mentioned a few times on Vigilant Citizen as her death is a classic case of “mysterious celebrity death” surrounded by odd facts and strange symbolism.

http://i0.wp.com/vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/britmurph1.jpg?resize=400%2C249
Picture of Murphy surrounded by masked secret society members taken shortly before her death.

According to her father and friend Julia Davis, Brittany was under constant surveillance by a “shadowy government organization”.

“In a recent interview with Los Angeles-based Fleur De Lis Film Studios, Mr Bertolotti said: ‘They were, in fact, under surveillance, including helicopters. Their telephones were wiretapped, Brittany was afraid to go home, because of the sneak-and-peek incursions into their residence and other terror tactics she suffered after speaking out in support of Julia Davis and being named as a witness in her lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security.”

They believe that Brittany’s support for Julia Davis, a government whistle-blower, caused her to be a target of heavy surveillance.

“This included warrantless aerial surveillance with fixed-wing airplanes and Blackhawk helicopters, vehicular surveillance, OnStar tracking, Internet monitoring, wiretaps, warrantless searches and seizures and series of other outrageous, unwarranted retaliatory measures.”
- Ibid.

Like most celebrities who lost their lives in strange circumstances, Brittany was described by mass media as a drug addict. The house she was living in was bought fully furnished from Britney Spears in 2003, a celebrity that is fully controlled and monitored by Hollywood handlers. Was this house “infiltrated”? Was Brittany Murphy living under the same circumstances as Britney Spears? Did she lose her life because she was breaking out of programming? Some of the truth appears to be slowly coming out.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/new-reports-claim-brittany-murphy-heavy-surveillance-poisoned-death/#wJ2jYmFBsRc9yUv4.99

wwiikkdd
14-12-2013, 04:22 AM
This thread is excellent for people wanting to explore, I recommend it highly for people researching other stuff and to get a image of the 'big picture' so to speak. Cannot believe they are censoring youtube that much now, its happened on my thread also.

Great work here, hunka and others: I tell a lot of my friends new to alternate media to start here :).

Yes, my pass word stopped working on YT. The GMAIL stopped opening. My posts from the past have been erased. I was in mid type when the page went blank. Complete disconnect from service. Try to gain new pass word, does not allow it to go through. To quote Blue Collar comedy" "HERE'S YER SIGN"....

wwiikkdd
14-12-2013, 04:32 AM
yes, its a pity that the government is editing Youtube so heavily.
Did you know that Google was essentially created by the NSA? The
search engine/indexing software/tech which was used to create Google
was originally used to sort&search the massive data mines of Project Echelon
and similar NSA spy installations. Don't even get me started on the spy satellite technology which was passed from the military, after forty odd years of use, to Google and on to public usage.

In the seventies, and eighties and nineties, remember the ridiculously crude & blurry 'spy satellite images' they would occasionally put in/on the news? Headlines like

'Leaked satellite images reveal worrisome military buildup on coast, border'.

http://asset1.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/ne/p/2008/corona01_468x600.jpg
NBC has received disturbing blurry images of fuzzy blobs near the Chinese coast and border. Joining us, via crystal clear satellite broadcast technology, to cap tonights worry panel is prominent fuzzy blob expert and former military attache to Tim Buk Tu, Bergen Bergstein:


"Well, Bergen , you've seen the images too. In your expert opinion uh......are you worried? "

"You might put it that way, Barbara. This is the largest number of fuzzy blob looking blips I've seen in the past six months of this."

"Past six months of worrisome , disturbing escalation?"

"Six m....? Uh, yes, Barbara . That's exactly what worries me. Its escalating, and yes, it is disturbing. Extremely disturbing. And not just six months. Six and a half months. I will correct you there. I should take a moment here to caution people about throwing around numbers arbitrarily like that too. It is even more cause for worry."

"Yes, I see that you are both balding and appear to be perspiring. You are clearly worried. Thanks so much for joining us, Bergen, please keep up the good work. See you Saturday."

"Always a pleasure to join you via live, color, highly detailed satellite-linked cam surveillance of my sweaty dome and nose pores Barbara."

"Sorry, Bergen, we appear to have the lost the signal, we missed that last part."

"We apologize for the technical difficulties... Bergen Bergstein
will be joining us again, and will join our worry panel again on Saturday. Don't miss this special NBS investigative feature "Soviet spy technology. How far have they gone?" Saturday, 7 pm. Central Standard Time (check your local listings for broadcast schedule times in your area)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


For decades they created the impression that spy satellite tech was pathetic,


while it is so obvious today that these people must have had the miltary intelligence equivalent of real-time Google Earth/Google Satellite decades ago. How long ago is anyones guess. They were publicly shooting Satellites up into space as long ago as 1957 (with Sputnik 1). Its easy to imagine secret military satellites dating back to the 1940s. They had rocket technology in the 1940s.

Sixty or seventy years later, they are so confident in their control grid that they decide to let the general public play around with PC's and military grade spy satellites.

The scuttlebut is that today they have the capability of reading the newspaper of someone sitting on a park bench.

So, yeah, the NSA censor Youtube. They own Google, and Google owns Youtube.

Phil Jayhan at LetsRoll forums had his own independent video hosting site, where some of the videos in this thread had been placed out of the reach
of the NSA. He was threatened with prosecution and financial ruin if he did not shut the site down. So now it is gone, along with some of the better videos in this thread.

America is being depopulated and evacuated into an empty
'Vacationland for lawyers in love', as Jackson Browne once put it.

30 years ago they 'leaked' that satellites could tell you what DATE on a dime in the palm of your hand was.

hunkahunka
14-12-2013, 06:28 AM
30 years ago they 'leaked' that satellites could tell you what DATE on a dime in the palm of your hand was.

Thirty years ago is 1983. I'm not sure if people , the general public , are even beginning to clue in to the implications of this. Google is purportedly still clumsily piecing together parts of Google Earth. But anyone who has used even Google Street view can guess that back in 1983, with just a live or real-time version of Google Street view, the NSA would have been able to look into the windows of many who were careless enough to even leave the curtains open in any place offering an unhindered
horizontal view to a spy satellite.

Imagine them running digital 24/7 CCTV-type satellite aerial surveillance of the entire city. Police find a body on the street one morning. They determine
that the murder is not a 'classified' case (ie: NSA-approved murder) and that the murder likely happened the previous night, about three hours previously, so they get the NSA to run the tape back, and watch the corner and there it is. The digital satellite aerial video reveals exactly what happened. It shows a car drive up at 3 am, and someone in the backseat pushes the body out of the car, and the car drives away. Maybe they want a better view of the car, so they cross-index the time and coordinates with the other 'street-view' satellite, and there it is. They now know the color, model, license number of the car which ditched the body. They double check the identity of the owner with the NSA to make sure they have the ok to make their case and eventually make the arrest. My guess is that suprisingly often the NSA will tell the police its classified and not to touch it.

hunkahunka
17-12-2013, 02:47 PM
Anyone who questions who really owns Google (probably the global government bankers/Rothschilds/NSA), consider the following news that Google has purchased eight military robotics firms in the past six months:

Google buys military robotics company Boston Dynamics, eighth robotics firm bought in past 6 months :

Google is moving into the robotics field at a rapid pace, with eight robotics firms purchased in just 6 months, the latest being military robotics contractor Boston Dynamics.

complete article:
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=28188

hunkahunka
19-12-2013, 10:34 AM
this case of rocker Ian Watkins is so odd....brazenly pursuing tiny children and babies and the police did not even warn him to stop when people reported to police what he was involved with. This apparently went on for years and years. It didn't affect his career negatively.
In fact he was normal until 'the career' took over his life. So what's really going on here?

It is becoming obvious from our research here that the rock industry is run by intelligence circles and that 'the connected' within that system often have their careers fast-tracked.

Have to wonder what sort of satanic intelligence network activities he was involved with which made him so bold and so untouchable. He has to have been on some sort of protected list, who knows? He purportedly even told a girlfriend of fantasies of kidnapping and murdering a baby:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525722/Lostprophets-paedophile-Ian-Watkins-described-child-sex-abuse-crimes-mega-lolz.html

Have to wonder what really lies behind the scenes of all of this. Obviously some big pieces of this puzzle are missing. Watkins was adopted by a Baptist minister when he was a child, so how did Watkins end up so screwed up and confused about the world? Why did he feel that he himself was so untouchable?
Why did he seem to laugh his way through the trial etc.? Will he even really spend any extended time in jail?

Have to wonder is he is part of some satanic 'in crowd' with unlimited access to snuff porn, SRA actitivities, etc. What else could
have corrupted him so thoroughly?

hunkahunka
19-12-2013, 08:55 PM
http://www.sameoldchange.com/2010/08/30/behind-the-wheel-catherine-austin-fitts/

Behind the Wheel
Sonntag, 29. August 2010 13:23
von Lars Schall

http://www.chaostheorien.de/artikel/-/asset_publisher/haR1/content/behind-the-wheel?redirect=%2F

Hardly another serious plague to society is associated with more hypocrisy and erroneous assumptions than the drug business. So Lars Schall talked with Catherine Austin Fitts, who explains the real deal: “It’s a very old business. It goes back to the question of how you control the most territory with the fewest players as possible.”

Catherine Austin Fitts is a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania (BA) and the Wharton School (MBA). At the Chinese University of Hong Kong she studied Mandarin. She served as a managing director and member of the board of the Wall Street investment bank Dillon, Read & Co, Inc. (now part of UBS). Later, she was Assistant Secretary of Housing and Federal Housing Commissioner at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) during the presidency of George Herbert Walker Bush. As such, she was responsible for the operations of the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), the largest mortgage insurance fund of the world.

After leaving the Bush Administration, Fitts founded The Hamilton Securities Group, Inc., an investment bank and financial software developer named after the first U.S. Secretary of Treasury, Alexander Hamilton. In 1996, she and her successful company became targets of a vicious, longlasting “qui tam lawsuit”, that resulted in the closing of Hamilton Securities.[1] Fitts was ultimately successful in Court of Claims litigation asserting that the government had no right to withhold monies owed to Hamilton.

In the years afterwards, Fitts spoke publicly about the degree of fraud endemic in the federal mortgage operations, trillions missing from government agencies and the connections to drug trafficking and “black budgets.”[2] Moreover, with her mentioned expertise, she was one of the first to warn of an approaching housing bubble. Her prediction that the ”strong dollar policy” would lead to a weakened federal credit is currently being proven correct.

Fitts is the president of Solari, Inc., publisher of “The Solari Report” (www.solari.com), and managing member of Solari Investment Advisory Services, LLC. She serves on the board of directors of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, GATA (www.gata.org), and writes “The Real Deal” column for Scoop Media in New Zealand (www.scoop.co.nz).

Catherine Austin Fitts lives in Tennessee, U.S.A.

The following interview was conducted, while she sat in her car and drove across the U.S.-state of Montana.

Can we do the interview, although you’re behind the wheel now?

Yes, I’m on the Interstate and it’s straight, there’s nothing to do except holding the course.

And Montana has a rather flat landscape, correct?

At this moment it is very flat.

Shall we start then?

Sure, go ahead.

Okay Ms. Fitts: in your highly impressive e-book “Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits” you mention as a prime factor that governs our lives on planet earth for roughly the last 500 years “the central banking-warfare investment model.” Can you describe to us at the beginning of this interview some of the essential characteristics, rationales and goals of that “model”?

“The central banking-warfare investment model” is really a control model, through which a small group of people can control the most resources on the most profitable basis. Essentially what happens is: Central banks print money and then the military makes sure that other parties accept it and that the financial system continues to have liquidity. The question many people ask with regards to a fiat currency, which is a paper currency, is: Why would anybody take paper, which has no value? They take the paper, because it’s part of the enforcement and military supervision, if you will, of the network that is printing the money. The system has created a fantastically profitable way of controlling large populations and access to resources very cheaply.

Let’s say for a second that Mr. Global is in charge of “the central banking-warfare investment model”: Mr. Global prints money and then people take that paper and give him in essence what he needs to buy up and control the national resources. The population is dependent on his paper and then he controls all the real things. Also through the military, he can steal whatever he wants. And organized crime is a very important component as well, because it can be expansive to drop an army and to occupy a place. If he can take over a place and buy that place with the place’s own money, it’s much more efficient, and that’s where the drug business traditionally comes in. It’s basically part of a model for controlling a territory with huge resources in the cheapest way possible.

One aspect of the model, that you have just described, is to attract and launder a lot of “liquid cash flow” through the American financial system that is generated by drug trafficking. The UN-chief on drugs, Antonio Maria Costa, stated something interesting in that respect last year. He said:

“In the second half of 2008, liquidity was the banking system’s main problem and hence liquid capital became an important factor … Inter-bank loans were funded by money that originated from the drugs trade and other illegal activities … There were signs that some banks were rescued that way.”[3]

He said moreover, that drug money is by “now a part of the official system” as if this was something new. What do you think about these “revelations”?

I think that the drug business is a very old model. For the North-American continent I would take it all the way back to the Opium Wars with China, though I think it certainly goes back longer than that. But when the British Empire almost went broke trading with the Chinese, the way the Britons fought back was by smuggling opium into China that they were growing in India.

When you look at the families involved in this trade, it tends to be an inter-generational business. And in North-America, when you look at the families who were running the narcotic trafficking during the time of the opium trade as part of the trade with Asia, it looks to me, that these were pretty much the same families and networks involved in the governance of it, not necessarily doing it, but certainly in the governance today from the financial side.

So it’s a very old business and it again goes back to the question of how you control the most territory with the fewest players as possible. I look at the drug business on an integrated basis for the pharmaceutical drugs and narcotics. One has to look at illegal and legal drugs, because the line between what is legal and illegal is very much moved back and forth according to what optimizes strategic control and profit.

In case he was interested in it: could you tell Mr. Costa please, that the involvement of both the American Government and the American financial system with drug trafficking began, to say the least, a long, long time ago with the invasion of Sicily by American troops during World War II and that the ties to organized crime from then on were never cut back?

Yes, the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) used the Italian Mafia to help with the landing in Sicily during World War II, and you can see a lot of the relationships between ONI and the intelligence community that came out of that operation and continued. After World War II the decision was made to open up the US population to drug trafficking as a way of pooling capital to finance the rise of the multinational corporations and to finance of what I call the “Black Budget”, which is covert development of technology by corporations and all sorts of non-transparent projects.[4] A lot of it is high-tech, but some of it is simply the funding of covert-warfare that is going on all over and above the planet. So you needed large amounts of capital in order to lead the switch to corporate governance and to finance new technology and covert wars. Thus the decision was made to open up the U.S. for drugs.

Now, I don’t think that this was really the beginning of it, just a significant increase in scale. There’s a wonderful book by Dan Russel called “Drug War”[5], which has a great description of how the drugs came in following the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank. If you watch the pattern, it makes you wonder whether the decision to do the Federal Reserve was in part undertaken to bring in the drugs as two parts of a multi-facet strategy. The relationship between government and organized crime has always been intimate, because if you’re a ruler and there’s a high-margin business, you cannot afford to not control that high-margin business or you won’t be the ruler for very long. If you go back and study the history of piracy and the monarchy in Europe, they were very much in bed with each other, but pretended otherwise.

Essentially, I would say the governments run the drug trade, but they’re not the ultimate power, they’re just one part, if you will, of managing the operations. Nobody can run a drug business, unless the banks will do their transactions and handle their money. If you want to understand who controls the drug trade in a place, you need to ask yourself who is it that has to accept to manage the transactions and to manage the capital, and that will lead you to the answer who’s in control. But the funny thing is, when you look at all those different parts involved, what you find out is, that it is a very fractured system. I’m always amazed when I hear Americans say “the government.” Anybody who ever worked in a government knows, that there is not one government. On the overt side, there is one budget and one major financing mechanism. Otherwise, it is quite fractured. For example, in the United States we have scores of intelligence agencies and I expect that there are even ones, we’ve never heard of. There are all sorts of syndicates that cooperate, collaborate and compete. Jon Rappoport once called it “the fractured kingdom.”

Two essential steps to get a strong hand on the extremely lucrative nature of global drug money were the National Security Act and the creation of the C.I.A. Is it by chance that most of the key figures of the latter organization have a background in high finance and investment banking? Would it be an exaggeration if one would assume that the C.I.A. was created to shield long-term Wall Street interests in the world?

The C.I.A. was created shortly after World War II really to provide an intelligence and covert capacity. The provisions related to money in the National Security Act and the C.I.A. Act gave the agency very significant sources of non-transparent cash flow outside of the governmental appropriations process. That was the basis in the long run of enormous power. I think they came out of World War II with the plan to build a global empire and they needed an intelligence capacity to do that. So in that sense you’re correct. It was the recognition that when everybody else is doing this, we have to do this too, and we got to be the best at it.

The thing that I find most interesting about the financial provisions related to the C.I.A. is that ultimately they didn’t so much empower the intelligence agencies as they did private corporations. Through Executive Orders in the 1980’s private corporations were authorized to do classified military and intelligence functions. With these changes they created a non-transparent way for corporations to get as much money as they needed to manage, control and develop the most powerful technology on the planet without any accountability whatsoever. As a result the government literally lost control of the most powerful technology. That’s part of our problem today. If the government had kept control of the funding and technology, I think we would looking at a very different picture. What we got is a world in which private interests are in control, including of the governmental mechanisms, and they’re answerable to no one despite the fact that they can continue to get open-ended amounts of funding through the governmental financing mechanism.

So it gets back to “the central banking-warfare investment model”: the Fed, our central bank, which is a private bank, can print money and then private corporations with guns can force nations, institutions and people around the world to take that money. We have complete centralized profits for an unaccountable syndicate of entities, who are running and governing the world. I call it a financial coup d’etat, and I think that’s what we got. If you look at the big bailouts that occurred here in this country, those bailouts meant that this syndicate just got 12 trillion dollars on a completely unaccountable basis. It seems at this point as if they got more than enough money to run the world.

Can you explain to us from a banking point of view about the “high yield investment” nature of drug money? What’s so special about it?

To answer this, let me give you an example of the economy. It’s an oversimplified example. Let’s say I want to take over a county in America, which is run by about a hundred small business people and a local municipality – that’s the leadership. I can bring drugs into that county in a way that has little costs. I can even teach the kids there to make the drugs in case I want to use meth. But for the most part I bring the drugs in and proceed to get lots of people, particularly the kids, in that place taking drugs in a way that completely distracts the small business people. The small business people are trying to keep their businesses from being robbed or they having to go down to the jail and bail their kids out of the jail.

So I keep them busy dealing with all the dysfunction, while in the meantime I’m making money that finances my bringing in franchises or big box stores and other businesses that take away their market share. I’m buying them with their own money. Think of it as a leveraged buyout of a place. Through their children I’m accessing their financial resources and then using those financial resources to take over their market share, which means that they’re financing their own economic destruction. I pass laws that require that the government deposits and contracts are much more likely to go to the big banks and large companies. I pass more laws that cause the small businesses and local pension funds to invest their employee retirement savings in the large companies that are taking away their market share. Meantime, I have an infinite rate of return because I am financing the take over of the place with the places own income and capital. A very important component to kick start the process is making money on the drugs. The drug money helps me buy control of the local governmental and enforcement machinery. And that helps me get control of the government grants and all sorts of other government monies, which I then direct back through the banks and companies that my syndicate controls.

Thus it’s an infinite rate of return, because I’m taking control of the whole place for no money down, and as I do, I switch the bank deposits, the store purchases, the contracts to my businesses, and all I need to kick start it are the drugs. Not just as a source of cash flow, but as a source of distraction, that enervates the dreams of my enemies. Sun Tsu’s The Art of War says: “Always eat your enemy’s food” – in other words, a pound of food that you steal from your enemy is worth many multiples of food that you need to provide yourself. So by using this kind of leveraged buyout of the entire economy and political structure with their money in a way that makes them weak, you’re eating their food. And then the control of the territory gives you an unending cash flow and further access to different resources. Not to mention, the more control you have the more you can insist that their children work in your banks or go to war in your army. Ultimately the richest resource is human capital. The kids you’re not destroying with drugs, you’re sending to your army to fight your wars or sending to your colleges to train to work for your banks.

I know the next question sounds almost stupid, but I think we need to address this to get things straight: isn’t the criminalization of drugs the basis for the whole business that you’ve just described in the first place?

Yes, you have to criminalize drugs to get the profit margin. Also by making it illegal you make it more interesting for certain types of people like kids, who then think it’s mysterious and secret. The criminalization is essential. But of course there is a whole world of pharmaceuticals, which are not illegal and are very, very useful to control people. The most profitable business on planet earth is slavery. And the most efficient kind of slavery is to control the people by controlling their minds, particularly if you can control them, without them knowing that they’re controlled. Drugs are a critical part of creating this kind of mind control.

Yes, like Goethe wrote, I quote from memory: “No one is more of a slave than the one, who considers himself to be free, without being it.”

Exactly. – So if I want to take over a place, I need the illegal drugs, because I need the margins. They are unbelievably profitable. But once I’ve got the control, I really need the pharmaceuticals, because when I have everybody on a wide variety of drugs from Valium to Ritalin, that’s very helpful to me, when I combine that with all kinds of other programming to get people basically being obedient, but still being productive. If everybody takes Heroin or Cocaine, at some point I will have labor problems. Pharmaceuticals are more effective in that respect, and so that’s where they come in.

During the 1980’s, there was something important going on at a small airport in Mena, Arkansas. For those who have never heard about it: what kind of business was taking place there, Ms. Fitts? And what can it tell us in a nutshell about the leadership of the two party system in the U.S.A.?

Well, there’s a great deal that’s been written about Mena, Arkansas. The intelligence agencies were using a small airport in Arkansas to ship out arms and bring back drugs. So they were operating drug running and arms trafficking, two businesses which tend to go side by side. One of the operatives was a guy named Barry Seal, and there’s been a lot of research about his operation. Apparently he was alleged to have run as much as four billion dollars in arms and drugs through Mena.

Because of a series of different researchers, particularly a state-government employee and an IRS employee, there’s been a lot of documentation of what happened at Mena, Arkansas. If you read through all the various allegations, it appeared that the National Security Council under the leadership of Vice-President George H. W. Bush and the State under the leadership of Governor Bill Clinton basically were providing the political support. George H. W. Bush had jurisdiction from an Executive Order when the Reagan-Administration began to oversee enforcement and intelligence, and of course Clinton as Governor oversaw the State enforcement.

So you really had a partnership, and by studying the operation you get a much clearer picture of how these types of operations were put in effect during that time period. For many years I’ve struggled trying to help people see the bipartisan nature of how the system really works. Many of us are distracted by various divisions such as Right vs. Left, Republican vs. Democrat. These divisions are just a kind of movie, that keeps people distracted. But here you see the bipartisan nature of the system. And you also see the extent to which politicians, who want to rise or want to hold important positions, essentially have to go along with these things and have to be good at these businesses, because they have to switch back and forth between the covert and helping to manage the covert, and playing the games involved with “the War on Drugs” such as: “We’re against drugs, drugs are terrible”, which is so important, insofar we spend a fortune on “the War on Drugs” and it’s essential to get the population to support that kind of enforcement against drugs, because otherwise you have a lot of difficulty managing the drug business without all that government funding.

For somebody who wants to understand how the business works, Mena is a great story to help you understand how the drug business works in America.

Would you suggest then if someone in Hollywood would like to make a good movie, that really gets down to the nitty-gritty with regards to drugs, he or she should do a movie about Mena?

Well, here’s the thing: nobody gets to the top of the ladder, without playing ball on these issues, because they are so essential to the economic model. Nobody gets a movie broadly distributed, without the Pentagon saying: “Okay.” So I am not sure a movie about Mena is going to get far these days.

You’re probably right. – In 1996, you and your company The Hamilton Securities Group ran into huge problems. How were these difficulties related to the services you provided to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and a software programme named “Community Wizard”? What was so threatening about it for certain powerful groups and what you coined as the “American Tapeworm”?[6] And can you also put it for us into the context related to the “Dark Alliance” revelations published by investigative journalist Gary Webb?[7]

Sure. The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) had a large portfolio of defaulted mortgages. These were mortgages on homes and apartment buildings. The owners had defaulted on their mortgage, and the question was what to do with those mortgages. Within that portfolio there were a significant number of mortgages that had been fraudulently issued. Within the portfolio there were neighbourhoods in South Central, L.A., which was the topic of Gary Webb’s “Dark Alliance” series on drug running by the American intelligence community – you see neighbourhoods where you’re bring in drugs and then you increase your profit by laundering it through HUD-financed properties which you can leverage with all sorts of mortgage securities fraud. I can turn a dollar of drug money into twenty dollars after I get through with all the mortgage fraud and the mortgage securities frauds.

My company was helping HUD auction and sell these mortgages. At the same time I had decided to make a software-tool called “Community Wizard”, that we were doing privately at the company, that would allow people to see how all the federal government money and financing worked in their neighbourhoods. A little secret of control in America is that it’s not economically efficient. It’s great for implementing centralized control, in that sense it is very efficient. But in terms of economic efficiency, corporations are receiving massive, massive amounts of governmental subsidies, which is invisible to most people. You really don’t see it, because it’s hidden behind government rules and regulations, government subsidies, government purchases, government contracts, special tax benefits and on and on – there are hundreds and hundreds of ways where the economic advantages get channelled to special interests, particularly large banks and corporations.

Now, if you look at the government money on a place-based basis, which very few people do – most of our accounting and governmental reporting, certainly in America, is on a functional basis and very rarely on a place-based basis – but when you do show financial statements for places, then you allow the people in those places to see how uneconomic things are AND you give them the ability to change it. Under the law much of what’s going on is in violation of either the Constitution or federal laws related to financial management. And as a political matter it is extremely difficult for government officials to say: “Oh, I think it’s fine to spend five times more for a house than we need to.” It’s not only a violation of the law, but also of all common sense, and politically it gets real hard to get away with it.

So, we were making a software-tool, and if that software-tool had caught on, there’s no way that the housing bubble could have occurred. And there’s no way that the level of mortgage fraud that took place during the last 15 years could have happened. So it was essential to stop and steal the tool and get control over it, and also to brand us as the bad guys. If you want to get rid of the honest people, there’s a common tactic in America to have a phony scandal branding the honest people as the bad guys.

During that process I got a real instructive education in how easy it was for them to get everybody to go along with them. It is pretty appalling to think that America was eager to have the kind of housing bubble we have experienced. If you go and look in every community and all the people who made money on that short-term, we were all happy to have our country, communities and households wiped out financially in exchange for a surprisingly small amount of money in the short run.

If you said to me: Okay, let’s reengineer all the government money and instead of controlling things centrally, let’s optimize the economy, so that we produce the most abundant wealth, including environmental wealth – a lot of our problem is the destruction of the environment, which is priceless – let’s run Planet Earth to optimize total wealth, human wealth, living wealth and financial wealth, and that total wealth is – we put a number on “X” – and you ask me what the total wealth is right now: It’s less than one percent of what it could be.

We’re living in abject poverty compared to what could be, whether it is financial poverty, poverty of the soul, poverty of the environment or poverty of community. If you look at what’s possible, there’s no economic problems on Planet Earth, the only problem we have is a political problem, and that’s why to solve anything we think is an economic problem, what we need to do is to ask: Who’s in charge?, and: Why are they behaving this way? Because the wealth that we are sacrificing to that group of people, it’s extraordinary.

I agree, that’s the saddest thing to observe that mankind doesn’t nearly outlive its true potential.

The potential is unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

Coming back to the topic of drug money: in light of all of this that you’ve explained, what does the U.S. and the German’s governments willingness to resort to illegal means to catch individual tax evaders, while simultaneously refusing to stop drug and criminal money laundering at the international banks that operate within their jurisdictions, say about the relationship between bankers and governments?

Well, there are several things going on at once. Let me first talk about the system. If you’re running narcotics trafficking, then you need “the War on Drugs” to keep the profits up, but you also need “the War on Drugs” to make sure you have control. Because you’re talking about managing a business, where you got a lot of very aggressive, ambitious people, who are extremely hard to manage and to control. Many of them would prefer to start their own operations, being independent and to compete with you. That means you’re constantly facing the problem of all sorts of personal issues. And a major one is that you’re involved with a lot of people, who think that they can be independent. So “the War on Drugs” and going after tax evaders is a way to take care of your competition, so to speak. A way of managing the personal and managing competition. But it gets tricky, because these are smart, ambitious people and they have weapons, the ability to hack computers and such things, that can become pretty nerve-racking.

Furthermore, as part of “the War on Drugs” you have all these wonderful hardworking people that you hire in law and in enforcement, and they don’t know, they really don’t know, that it’s all governed from the top. You want them to believe, that what they’re doing is really trying to stop it, because that helps you. There’s a wonderful movie called “The International,” that came out about a year ago. And there you have an Interpol Investigator, who’s really hardworking and sincere and thinks that he’s supposed to be stopping illegal arms trafficking and money laundering. So you see all these nice people, who really don’t know how it works top-down, and they occasionally get someone. When you’re at the top, it’s a bit like managing livestock. Let’s say you have twenty guys doing a certain kind of money laundering and you just gonna figure that half of them get arrested and taken out, then that’s perfectly fine, because you believe in Darwinism. That’s the way of testing that those people are smart and really made it. That’s all part of the organic system that you use to manage it.

Then there’s another thing going on related to tax evasion, which is we’re trying to tighten up the financial system, so that it is much more centralized than it has been. There is a whole layer of what I call “middle-management” – executives, whether in the banking arena or in the drug dealing arena that are not longer necessary. Think of it as squeezing of middle management.

Now, when I want to implement much greater digital control of the banking settlement systems, for example when powerful countries like Germany or the United States want to move in on a place like Greece and want to exercise control of their banking settlement systems and data systems, they do not say: “I am Germany or the United States, and I want to control the planet, and I am powerful, and now is the chance for me to exercise more control over the little guys.” That’s not how you do it. That’s a non-starter. What you do instead is that you finance a number of activists, who run around to get features on how the problem in our world is that there’s too much money off-shore and tax evasion and we need to stop it. That gives the big guys the excuse to go in and squeeze out more of the middle-management. I think what you see related to tax evasion is one method to build the digital control that you need to bring out a One-World-Currency.

Yes, and I firmly believe by the way that we’re in a transition phase towards a common Global Currency or at least we see definitely ambitions to get it.[8] But anyway: despite prominent cases with regard to the laundering of drug money (e. g. Citigroup, American Express, Wachovia), why do you think that the vast majority of citizens are still ignorant of these highly immoral activities undertaken by the world’s largest banks?

Well, there’s a delicate balance between most people and The Powers That Be. Most people feel that if they just pretend that this really is not going on and continue to live in their little bubble, that’s the way they can have the best life and all that stuff stays away from them, and in fact, because they’re part of the Empire that’s doing all of this, they think they can get a benefit financially and can pretend at the same time that they have nothing to do with it, because they’re not directly involved.

That’s based on fear. That’s based on a belief that if they try to do anything, because the system is so invisible to them, that they would get hurt, that it would hurt them professionally or physically. You know, America is a very violent and dangerous place, and for those people, who try to do something, the consequences can be devastating.

I usually quote “Enemy of the State,” a great movie with Will Smith. He plays a successful lawyer, who gets targeted by an intelligence operation that destroys at first his reputation. These guys kill your name, before they can kill you. It’s a process that I lived through and eventually overcame, but it’s very expansive and time consuming and pretty dangerous to deal with this kind of legal and physical harassment. In fact, many people have died, were disabled or seriously harmed in America, because they tried to do something about this. For example one of the researchers related to Mena, Arkansas, was seriously poisoned with Anthrax. The IRS Investigator was devastated financially. So it’s a dangerous environment.

What’s hard for many people to understand, Lars, is: If you’re trying to stop the drug dealing in your community, you’re dealing with the centralized power that’s running it in every community globally, or just about the exception perhaps being those few countries still outside the central banking system like North Korea, Iran and such places. They can’t afford for your community to be an exception. Literally, a Soccer Mom, who tries to get drugs out of her neighbourhood, she will find herself dealing with Black Helicopters and James Bond, because that’s who enforces.

There’s a book, The Boys on the Tracks: Death, Denial, and a Mother’s Crusade to Bring Her Son’s Killers to Justice by a marvelous reporter, Mara Leveritt about Linda Ives, a housewife in Arkansas, who’s son was murdered by the people involved in the Mena drug operation.[9] She is just trying to find out what happened to her son, and before she knows it, she’s up against the whole National Security Council, because nobody can afford for this to come out. The power and money that is arrayed against her over the death of her son in the middle of rural Arkansas is just astonishing.

So this is very dangerous business. These covert cash flows are leveraged by the financial system. With derivatives and globalization that leverage becomes greater and greater. This creates a real management problem. How do you keep the overt and covert world separate for purposes of operations and understanding while integrating and leveraging them financially? How do you manage the “Black Budget” world in a way that the overt world can’t hiccup it in terms of day-to-day operations? How do you handle things when the real economy veers in very different ways than the future you had organized through the derivatives market, as happened when the Gulf oil spill got out of hand? That’s one of the reasons why we see so much effort to assert unbelievable control.

Ms. Fitts, since we’re talking about criminal activities in high ranks and since you have written about it extensively: was the scandalous bankruptcy of Enron thoroughly investigated and aren’t there signs that Enron was also “up to its nose” involved in drug money operations via Enron Online?

Here’s my theory. I did a series of interviews and articles on Enron,[10] and if you go to my website – www.solari.com – under the “Article”-section and then link into the “Tapeworm Economics”-section, you can find under “Enron” an interview I did with Dan Armstrong and another interview that I did with Dennis Bernstein on a special national show for Pacifica radio, called “Enron: Anatomy of a Cover Up.” I recommend those, because I go through the details of why I say there was no serious investigation into Enron.

I believe that Enron was laundering money that was being stolen from the U.S. government. Between Fiscal 1998 and Fiscal 2002 over Four trillion dollars that we know of disappeared from the federal government. I expect it was even more. Now, people ask: How can four trillion dollars disappear? Well, securities fraud, that’s how it can disappear. With the kind of mortgage securities, that the U.S. government issues, and the loop-holes in the issuing Treasury Security off-balance sheet, it’s very possible to steal trillions of dollars pretty quickly from the U.S.-government, especially with the military backing up the ability of people to liquefy those securities.

Anyway, so about four trillion dollars went missing during Enron’s hay day. The reason I first looked into Enron was that I was trying to figure out how the money moving out of HUD and the Pentagon was being laundered and where it was going. The other thing that I should mention is that folks say: How can the bailouts appear, that require twelve trillion dollars? That amount of money is more than would have been needed to retire all the outstanding mortgages in the country. Well, if you’re issuing four trillion dollars of fraudulent paper to steal four trillion, then you can see why you would need a bailout to come in and refinance out that fraudulent paper.

But coming back to Enron: I think they had an operation separate in the Enron business. There was apparently a special area where only the Chief Financial Officer and a few people had access. There are reports of a team of former employees of the C.I.A. and F.B.I. with access to Echelon and PROMIS-software. These are different components needed to run a significant money laundering operation. So I started looking at Enron, because of the different money that began disappearing from the US government, to find out where the money was going. If you look at the companies that were allied with Enron or involved in their governance, it was a lot of the contractors and investors who were running the accounting and financial system and involved with the agencies, where the money was going missing.

Like Lockheed Martin and DynCorp?

Yes. The big one was DynCorp. One person with a very senior position at Enron, Pug Winokur, an executive on Enron’s board, was also a member of the Harvard Corporation, which made a lot of money shorting Enron’s stock. For years, his investment company was the lead investor in DynCorp. After he sold most of the position, he shifted from being Chairman of DynCorp to Chairman of the board compensation committee. There were other relations with Lockheed Martin, which had the lead on systems at HUD and many at DOD, and various other groups at Enron, too.

Basically, if you look at the networks between investment interests and board positions, the money is disappearing in the one end and showing up in the other. And the question always is: Where did all the cash in Enron come from? You can do a lot of fraud on accounting statements and accounting fraud, however, the problem is the accounting fraud doesn’t necessary get you cash, and they had an enormous cash flow for some period of time. My intuition was they were pulling money out of HUD as the mortgage bubble grew.

If one would perceive the whole drug business as a problem: what were your proposals to fix it?

The drug business is a symptom of the model, “the central banking warfare model,” and if we’re gonna leave that model, then we need a model which is an alternative. To keep the “the central banking warfare investment model” going requires two things: more central control and depopulation. The model is unbelievably inefficient and you can’t keep it going, unless you have even more top-down control and more depopulation, which is what we’re now experiencing on an accelerating basis.

If you don’t want to do that model, then you have to come up with a model that says: Okay, we can run the planet in a way that is peaceful and adopts an economic model that supports peace and supports people who are taking responsibility and enjoying freedom. So you’re talking about a radically different culture, Lars, than the one we’re now a part of. If you’re going to leave the existing model, we need a vision of what that new model looks like, and ways to prototype it and try it, particularly with young people, that tests out a lot of the issues. To me, to leave something you require an alternative, to have an alternative you have to invent one, to invent one you first need to come up with a vision and start prototype on a decentralized basis.

If you look at the kind of new economic model that might work, I think you need first and foremost a sound currency, and I would say you need multiple currencies – both local currencies and global currencies. You need sound money, because the key to communication between people is that they can communicate effectively with little or no cost to their time and transactions. The problem with fiat currency we’re using is, that they are very useful to steal everything, but they’re not very useful to help you manage a real economy efficiently, because there is so much misinformation and miscommunication in the middle of a manipulated currency. So that’s what you need: a sound currency.

Number two: You need transparency. If people are going to take responsible and be accountable, then they need to be able to see how their resources are used, particularly in the area contiguous to where they live and work and vote for political representation. If actions they’re taking are harming somebody else on the other side of the planet, then they need to be able to see and to understand that. So transparency is critical. As part of transparency you also need individual privacy, because right now, the people who manage centrally can have every access to my data and your data, but we can’t have any access to data related for example to taxes we pay. You need to switch that, you need to make individual data private and make it possible for data about shared resources to be public. If I want to make any information about me private, I must have the power to do it, whether it’s my money or other data about me. Privacy is at the heart of individual sovereignty.

The third thing you need is optimize government money according to classic return on investment standards, as opposed to what generates jobs and general fees for political insiders. So the allocation and use of government money has to be held to standards traditionally applied to private investment. Part of creating this type of process is the transparency as it is applies to government money.

And the next thing you need to do is to allow equity circulation according to market principles as opposed to political control. So, for example, a neighbourhood can do venture funds and mutual funds and other things if that is how they choose to invest their resources. Technology should advance the small guy up against the big guys, but it’s not doing this. One of the reasons is capital controls that continually force centralization of capital rather than letting capital flow where it would in a free market.

Finally, in any legal or financial system ultimately the question is: Who enforces? Now, if I create a government to enforce, ultimately that government can be corrupted or being bought, particularly given the nature of our invisible weaponry and surveillance systems. We have to go to a system where culture enforces. Essentially what this means is: I am morally responsible for my actions, and my actions in a world where I can see my actions and the implications of my actions across the board. So if I am an American and I use a lot of plastic bottles and that’s creating all sorts of environmental damage in places where I don’t live, the transparency needs to help me to understand this.

I need to be morally responsible not just for my actions, but more importantly and this is a very big change: I need to be responsible for my financial actions. I need to understand where my money is going and what it is doing in my name, because I need to enforce against bad behaviour and reinforce the good behaviour. So if I’m own stock in a corporation and that corporation is trying to control the global seed supply, then I need to sell that stock or I need to go to the shareholders meeting and insist that they stop. I need to view my moral responsibility not just with my own personal actions, but also with the actions that I support with my bank deposits, my purchases and my investments.

We are going to have to go to a world where all of us enforce and where all of us are responsible for enforcement. What we have to leave is the multiple-personality disorder world, which says: I am responsible morally for my actions, but I’m not responsible for what I finance with my money. That way I can finance the most evil, destructive practices on the planet, make a lot of money from it, get my piece of profits of crime, but pretend I don’t know and still think of myself as a good person. That’s the tricky one: the enforcement has to come down to people everywhere. And the reality is, that most people have remarkably good intentions for the rest of the human race, and I think we’ll do it. It’s will be quite a learning journey. The price of freedom, whether free people or free markets, is responsibility.

We have to have an intention that says: Just working harder in the current model or just hiding and running away, isn’t going to work. We need a new model, and then the conversation begins, which is why you’re doing this interview. We need to connect up globally, because this will be a global model. We need to connect up and we need a conversation, that says: It’s time to give up the central banking-warfare model, and ask ourselves: What’s the model? We will invent it together.

Thank you very much for taking your time, Ms. Fitts, and come safe to the place you’re heading to!

Thank you!

wwiikkdd
20-12-2013, 02:55 AM
this case of rocker Ian Watkins is so odd....brazenly pursuing tiny children and babies and the police did not even warn him to stop when people reported to police what he was involved with. This apparently went on for years and years. It didn't affect his career negatively.
In fact he was normal until 'the career' took over his life. So what's really going on here?

It is becoming obvious from our research here that the rock industry is run by intelligence circles and that 'the connected' within that system often have their careers fast-tracked.

Have to wonder what sort of satanic intelligence network activities he was involved with which made him so bold and so untouchable. He has to have been on some sort of protected list, who knows? He purportedly even told a girlfriend of fantasies of kidnapping and murdering a baby:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525722/Lostprophets-paedophile-Ian-Watkins-described-child-sex-abuse-crimes-mega-lolz.html

Have to wonder what really lies behind the scenes of all of this. Obviously some big pieces of this puzzle are missing. Watkins was adopted by a Baptist minister when he was a child, so how did Watkins end up so screwed up and confused about the world? Why did he feel that he himself was so untouchable?
Why did he seem to laugh his way through the trial etc.? Will he even really spend any extended time in jail?

Have to wonder is he is part of some satanic 'in crowd' with unlimited access to snuff porn, SRA actitivities, etc. What else could
have corrupted him so thoroughly?
Adopted means he could very well been of the lineages that are TPTB. He was groomed and fed this depraved habit along the way. No one decides one day to 'go this way'. Much inline w/Jimmy So-Vile savile, yes. Overconfident, do as he pleased brashness. No police interference until THEY decide he goes through the ringer. Wonder who controls his career? His lawyer? Who takes over his money? Record royalties? Yes many questions answered are to come.

hunkahunka
20-12-2013, 03:41 AM
Adopted means he could very well been of the lineages that are TPTB. He was groomed and fed this depraved habit along the way. No one decides one day to 'go this way'. Much inline w/Jimmy So-Vile savile, yes. Overconfident, do as he pleased brashness. No police interference until THEY decide he goes through the ringer. Wonder who controls his career? His lawyer? Who takes over his money? Record royalties? Yes many questions answered are to come.

Then there's Paul Bernardo , who seemed to fall under some sort of protective veil for quite awhile until he just got so depraved
and extreme that nothing could be done any longer to protect him. Same goes for Dahmer.
What I don't get is where this Watkins didn't end up in an 'intervention' , a rehab, kicked out the band, or even 'dead of a drug overdose' when he got so out of control that he became a possible liability/threat to all those enablers around him. (which is what I suspect may have been the case with Cobain and some others) Alice Cooper ended up getting thrown into a psych ward. His friend Keith Moon ended up dead.
For all of that, maybe Watkins DID get away with some things which will never be known to the public. (ritual murder, etc.? That's my suspicion. Michael Aquino, Alistair Crowley, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Paul Bernardo, K.D Lang? don't we all think there may be whole unwritten chapters on them too?)

then there's his creepy Mi6/NSA-troll-esque slogan 'megaloldz!'
Anyone recall how all the correctoid online NSA thought police trolls were the first 20 years ago to use rotfllmfao! and lol! and sundry other codified
online jargon as their secret weapon while crusading online against the majority, mainstream view on traditional issues?
It figures that the people who were paid to police the chat rooms and IRC channels and Yahoo/google/usenet newsgroups 12 or more hours per day
were the first to develop these acronym shorthand glyphs (there is a word for these texting phrase abbreviations, but I have forgotten what it is). To this day when I see some idiot in public studiously ignoring everyone around her and listening to hiphop and texting away like a moron on her I-phone, I wonder if she's part of some
horrible NSA type clique or org or frat or whatever the fuck these creatures belong to.
Do I think Watkins is connected to the whole satanic MI6/NSA network? yep

hunkahunka
20-12-2013, 03:59 AM
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/spidey3bad1.jpg
kd Lang
http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/L/kd-lang-21174577-1-402.jpg

wwiikkdd
20-12-2013, 04:28 AM
Then there's Paul Bernardo , who seemed to fall under some sort of protective veil for quite awhile until he just got so depraved
and extreme that nothing could be done any longer to protect him. Same goes for Dahmer.
What I don't get is where this guy didn't end up in an 'intervention' , a rehab, kicked out the band, or even 'dead of a drug overdose' when he got so out of control that he became a possible liability/threat to all those enablers around him. (which is what I suspect may have been the case with Cobain and some others) Alice Cooper ended up getting thrown into a psych ward. His friend Keith Moon ended up dead.
For all of that, maybe Watkins DID get away with some things which will never be known to the public. (ritual murder, etc.? That's my suspicion. Michael Aquino, Alistair Crowley, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Paul Bernardo, K.D Lang? don't we all think there may be whole unwritten chapters on them too?) They do 'play' with peoples lives. Letting him have enough slack to hang himself. Likely have him on video way back when for that casting couch/contract signing. Without question 'it' is in his lineage. Really non blood kin cannot go far in any field. Ted Bundy? Was he really put down? Once the official story is 'he's dead' no one is looking for you. Nazi war criminals were using there real names at times! Notice how many real serial killers are kept alive for decades, while lesser (minority) are killed?

hunkahunka
20-12-2013, 05:17 AM
They do 'play' with peoples lives. Letting him have enough slack to hang himself. Likely have him on video way back when for that casting couch/contract signing. Without question 'it' is in his lineage. Really non blood kin cannot go far in any field. Ted Bundy? Was he really put down? Once the official story is 'he's dead' no one is looking for you. Nazi war criminals were using there real names at times! Notice how many real serial killers are kept alive for decades, while lesser (minority) are killed?

http://dmcombr.s3.amazonaws.com/upload/midia/wdYf7_4a279723940e80b0e2ca62895d491fee.jpg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/The_beatles_yesterday_today_butcher_cover_photo.jp g

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/the_beatles_butcher_cover_alternate_photo.jpg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/the_beatles_butcher_cover_pix_session_alternate.jp eg

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/the_beatles_butcher_cover_photos.jpg

wwiikkdd
20-12-2013, 07:01 AM
Bernardo was born in Scarborough, Ontario. His mother, Marilyn, was the daughter of a wealthy Toronto lawyer. His father, Kenneth, the son of an English woman and an Italian immigrant who created a highly successful marble and tile business, was abusive towards his wife and children. Instead of entering the family business, Kenneth Bernardo became an accountant. After her father had disapproved of an earlier boyfriend, Marilyn married Kenneth in 1960. Like his father, Kenneth Bernardo was said to be abusive. Marilyn, after having given birth to a son and a daughter, began seeing a former boyfriend. She became pregnant with his child and gave birth to Paul Kenneth Bernardo on August 27, 1964. Kenneth Bernardo tolerated his wife's affair and is listed as the biological father on Paul's birth certificate.[citation needed]
In 1975, Kenneth Bernardo fondled a girl and was charged with child molestation; he also sexually abused his own daughter.[2] Bernardo's mother became depressed over her husband's abuse, withdrew from family life and lived in the basement of their Scarborough home. Though the elder children felt the effects of the emotional and mental turmoil, young Paul appeared to be unscathed by it. In his book Lethal Marriage, Nick Pron describes the young Bernardo: "He was always happy. A young boy who smiled a lot. And he was so cute, with his dimpled good looks and sweet smile, that many of the mothers just wanted to pinch him on the cheek whenever they saw him. He was the perfect child they all wanted: polite, well mannered, doing well in school, so sweet in his Boy Scout uniform."[3] Again you have a parent (mother) from upper class, along w/her having been knocked up by a boy friend on the side. Whose the fathers lineage. And bingo, like Bundy he was adopted by the husband. Who has already shown his dark side learned from HIS fathers behavior. And this Paul Bernardo runs amok for years raping/killing with a straight face. Just like Bundy. These types are always groomed, taught like school over and over in real time. Real monsters are made, they do not just happen.

hunkahunka
20-12-2013, 07:49 AM
Bernardo was born in Scarborough, Ontario. His mother, Marilyn, was the daughter of a wealthy Toronto lawyer. His father, Kenneth, the son of an English woman and an Italian immigrant who created a highly successful marble and tile business, was abusive towards his wife and children. Instead of entering the family business, Kenneth Bernardo became an accountant. After her father had disapproved of an earlier boyfriend, Marilyn married Kenneth in 1960. Like his father, Kenneth Bernardo was said to be abusive. Marilyn, after having given birth to a son and a daughter, began seeing a former boyfriend. She became pregnant with his child and gave birth to Paul Kenneth Bernardo on August 27, 1964. Kenneth Bernardo tolerated his wife's affair and is listed as the biological father on Paul's birth certificate.[citation needed]
In 1975, Kenneth Bernardo fondled a girl and was charged with child molestation; he also sexually abused his own daughter.[2] Bernardo's mother became depressed over her husband's abuse, withdrew from family life and lived in the basement of their Scarborough home. Though the elder children felt the effects of the emotional and mental turmoil, young Paul appeared to be unscathed by it. In his book Lethal Marriage, Nick Pron describes the young Bernardo: "He was always happy. A young boy who smiled a lot. And he was so cute, with his dimpled good looks and sweet smile, that many of the mothers just wanted to pinch him on the cheek whenever they saw him. He was the perfect child they all wanted: polite, well mannered, doing well in school, so sweet in his Boy Scout uniform."[3] Again you have a parent (mother) from upper class, along w/her having been knocked up by a boy friend on the side. Whose the fathers lineage. And bingo, like Bundy he was adopted by the husband. Who has already shown his dark side learned from HIS fathers behavior. And this Paul Bernardo runs amok for years raping/killing with a straight face. Just like Bundy. These types are always groomed, taught like school over and over in real time. Real monsters are made, they do not just happen.

But they'll never teach that in the feminist school system. No, every single problem in the world is caused by MALE hormones, testosterone, according to them. Testosterone creates wars, creates porn, and porn creates serial killers, and that's all there is to it. Male sexist oppression,porn, misogyny, hormones, homophobia, a 'war on womyn' , powered by evil white sexist christians' etc. etc. etc.
If only Bernardo or Bundy or Watkins etc. had only gotten in touch with their feminine sides and been the ideal homosexual male model of the Aquarian age, none of it would happened....of course.
According to feminists, no serial killer ever had anything to do with organized satanism or satanic ritual abuse or programming or gang activity or anything else. Every single solitary problem in existence has at its roots the white male penis. Even pollution, greed, its all male.
The feminists will ride in heroically to save the day, like Annie Oakley, dutifully eradicating their own race from the face of the earth while squirming and snorting out their mixed-race savior babies. Virtually every socialist university in North America is satanically devoted to the vision.

wwiikkdd
20-12-2013, 05:50 PM
The war is upon those who believe in God & His son Jesus. Those whom adhere to the natural law. These militant femme fatals are miserable by the very fact they do not love. See the elites treatment of the unwashed masses. The control to destroy the live of all these victims and the monsters they created to wreck havoc upon the innocent. The funding that started these 'liberators' comes from the elite. The true nose dive of America came in the mid '60's. Contrived conflict. Solution offered. Control achieved. PS that wench that helped the above serial rapist/killer should not set foot ever again in free society. Ever.

hunkahunka
24-12-2013, 02:54 PM
the following video is a must listen interview of Freeman on the occult

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LWaogcDx8iY/Uptq1zT-tjI/AAAAAAAABPA/WVtZNk-TOkI/s320/CIA-Satan_JFK-720.jpg

video:

The CIA, Satan, and the JFK Assassination


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z7PTpVhxrc


Almost Human, the CIA, and Satan

We have witnessed the CIA’s involvement in the entertainment industry for years. Certainly, the DOD and FBI have had Hollywood liasons longer than the CIA but, no one does it like “The Company”.
J.J. Abrams has been involved with social engineering with the CIA for decades. His connections to Walt Disney Co. and creating CIA recruitment television should be enough for any follower of this author. But, there is always more to the picture. (http://freemantv.com/almost-human-666-cia-transhumanism/)

50 years after the assassination of President John F Kennedy, Freeman reveals which contemporary Hollywood star's father confessed to firing the fatal bullet. - Freeman on Good Vibrations Nov.22nd

I sat next to a man who claimed to be a police investigative reporter. He was mostly interested in the Iran-Contra investigation. We talked for a while about “guns for drugs” then, he told me that he had, I believe it was, Parkinson’s Disease. He said that he needed to take his medication and that it would paralyze him for a time, but that he could talk. He said it frightened him to be paralyzed and asked if I would stay to talk with him during this time. I said, “certainly,” and then, out of the blue, he asked me, “Do you want to know who killed Kennedy?” Being an avid Discordian I replied, “Wasn’t it John Dillinger?” He kinda smiled and said, “It’s funny you should say that. Yellow Springs is the first town Dillinger robbed, but no, it wasn’t Dillinger. It was Woody Harrelson’s father (http://www.nndb.com/people/666/000023597/). This is a Yellow Spring’s secret."

What an interview with Freeman, he mentions the honeyed blood ritual, Woody Harrelson connection to the Bohemian Grove
Illuminati's assassination of JFK. This synchs with Courtney Love appearing with Woody Harrelson in that horrible bio
film about the founder of Hustler Magazine, Larry Flynt. Courtney Love is , of course, intimately connected to Bohemian Grove
and CIA hippy cults.

Found this piecing some of the synchs together


Re:
Actor Corey Feldman has sensationally claimed that his Lost Boys co-star Corey Haim was the victim of a pedophile who was also a Hollywood mogul.
The Lost Boys actor said he was 'literally surrounded' by pedophiles at the age of 14, but didn't realise 'until I was much older what they were and what they wanted.'
In a special report, 'Underage And Famous' for ABC's Nightline show, Feldman blamed former co-star Corey Haim's death at the age 38 on the abuse he suffered at the hands of a 'Hollywood mogul' he refused to name.

The signficance of the Bohemian Grove connections here are interesting.

So Feldman was abused, Haim was abused, River Phoenix was abused, Feldman and Phoenix worked with a director (Rob Reiner?) who at the least has a close personal relationship with regular attendees of Bohemian Grove where much abuse is alleged to take place, and friend and fellow colleague of said BH regulars Tony Hendra has had extremely strong allegations of sexually abusing his daughter very publicly made against him. Most of these people seem to have a working relationship with the son of an ex-CEO of America who himself has been very publicly accused of being a serial abuser among other misdemeanours.

It's also worth noting that Feldman worked on The Goonies with Richard Donner, who also produced The Lost Boys, where on the set of (and therefore on whose watch) it seems Haim was first lured into the abuse he suffered.

Donner worked on the Lethal Weapon series of films with Danny Glover, who is good friends with Oprah Winfrey having worked with her on a few occasions.

Donner also directed the first two Superman films (he was fired half way through shooting the second), which starred Margot Kidder.

Kidder had a very public breakdown in the '90's:

Kidder was fixated on the idea that McGuane and the CIA were plotting to kill her because her book was powerful enough to change the world. Says manic-depression expert and author Kay Redfield Jamison (An Unquiet Mind), a Johns Hopkins University professor who has recently corresponded with Kidder: "Manic-depressives often become delusional in the manic phase. And their usual form is paranoia." Kidder saw agents and assassins everywhere. "I know you're looking at me!" she shouted at passersby at the airport.

Still in the airport at 3 a.m., she hooked up with a TV crew from WBIR in Knoxville, Tenn. "My ex-husband has hired people to kill me," she told them. Recalls anchorman Ted Hall, who recognized her: "I could see there was no plot. It was so sad. She was dirty, tired, no makeup." By then, Kidder had thrown away her purse because she thought there was a bomb in it.

Read more:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20142326,00.html

She was briefly married to actor John Heard, whose father incidentally spent 40 years working at The Pentagon.

Kidder once had a relationship with ex-Canadian PM Pierre Trudeau whose name people might have noticed crop up before.

Interestingly, Trudeau's press secretary while he was PM was the mother of 'Friends' actor Matthew Perry.

Perry got his big break with a role in the River Pheonix vehicle A Night In The Life of Jimmy Reardon (incidentally made in the same year as The Lost Boys and Stand by me.)

Perry's friends co-star Courtney Cox (who herself has strong connections to the CIA connected Copeland family (of which The Police drummer Stewart Copeland is a part) is married to David Arquette of the famous Arquette family.

Like the Pheonix family the Arquette's grew up in a 'hippy comune', where they have said they suffered violent abuse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRtveaAtZ-E

The connections and disturbing activity just go on and on.

hunkahunka
24-12-2013, 06:03 PM
interesting rock video mentioning vaccines, chemtrails, depopulation etc.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_em7c39_CWQ

hunkahunka
24-12-2013, 11:52 PM
Sleuths have been trying to figure out exactly who this movie 'mogul' was who Corey Feldman is implicating as having sexually abused Corey Haim.
Among possible suspects mentioned were producer Richard Donner, director Rob Reiner, producer Steven Spielberg, and David Geffen.

QUOTE

Here is an interesting article on Steven Spielberg:

http://www.steamshovelpress.com/latestword13.html

The author examines some of the pedophilic themes of films such as Jurassic Park, and E.T., among others.


Taken, Indeed

Steamshovel debris: The following essay by Adam Parfrey originally appeared in Jim Goad's renown Answer Me magazine and is anthologized in the 1996 Answer Me book anthology. It appeared shortly after the release of Steven Spielberg's movie, "Jurassic Park," and primarily deals with possible themes of pedophilia in his movie, "Hook."

Steamshovel presents it here as backgrounder to the recent Sci-Fi channel TV mini-series, "Taken," produced in part by Spielberg.

Ostensibly about alien abductions, the recent series actually focused more on the relationship of the abduction phenom to various children--the series tracks stories over generations, providing all of it protagonists the opportunity to be quite young--and sadistic adults involved with UFO cover up. (Thanks to Greg Bishop for finding a copy of the essay to reproduce here.)


Pederastic Park?
by Adam Parfrey

A vicious sort of urban legend began to flourish about the time of Richard Gere's alleged alliance with rectal rodents. Its subject was Steven Spielberg, and the gossip had to do with the director's overweening fascination with child actors. Mindful that hearsay is sometimes false, we are withholding the delicious details. But the fact that this rumor exists at all confirms an underlying unease over the presumably innocent entertainments created by Hollywood's oldest Wunderkind.

Spielberg's latest theme park-style extravaganza, "Jurassic Park," isn't as explicitly swishy as his failed "Hook," but it reveals components of the auteur's personality that have parents wondering about the movie's appropriateness for children.

"King King," "The Lost World," and "Godzilla," three monster epics cannibalized by "Jurassic Park," achieved their thrills without resorting to on-screen menacing of tots. Indeed, only on milk cartons can we find children so physically raped as the celluloid juveniles of "Jurassic Park." The film's sadistic tone is established early on, when a fat child challenges the paleontological theories of protagonist Sam Neill. Neill turns on the boy, and in low, menacing tones, he demonstrates to the child how a prehistoric nasty would mangle and devour him. Adding a distinctly Peter Kurtenish frisson, Neill slashes near the child's belly and crotch with a large, sharp claw.
Perhaps among all our "childlike" wonderment with the subject of dinosaurs, we forget that child abusers commonly invoke the threat of large beasts to frighten and silence their victims. Is the director conjuring the trappings of childhood obsessions only to wield them for a darker purpose?

Although overtly sadistic, "Jurassic Park" was reined in by its obeisance to special effects; it revealed few of the excesses of "Hook," in which Spielberg's psychodramatic inclinations were allowed to roam free.

"Hook" is the culmination of over a decade of false starts in bringing J. M. Barrie's Peter Pan to the screen. At first, Spielberg was reportedly considering a live-action redo of the Disney animated feature, starring Michael Jackson as the perpetual pre-pube. But the auteur of suburban childhoos wasn't satisfied with a simple remake.

The high-concept Hollywood sound bite, "What if Peter Pan grew up?" not only indulged Spielberg's predilections, it provided the film's investors with a tinkingly trendy phrase redolent with the "recovery" metaphysics that have become the ethos for Hollywood's haut monde, the same haut monde who have lately forsworn the continual cocaine-and-Quaalude concatenations so relentlessly documented by former Spielberg producer Julia Phillips in her autobitchography, You'll Never Eat Lunch In This Town Again.

The recovery movement is led in part by ex-drunk John Bradshaw, who smilingly encourages his readers to throw off the ruinous shackles of adulthood in order to "liberate the inner child." It comes as little surprise that Steven Spielberg takes part in Bradshaw's therapies, which include workshops where "lullaby music is played and participants cradle and stroke one another."

Asking Steven Spielberg to liberate his inner child would be akin to asking a serial murderer to actualize his anger. By his own admission, Stevie has experienced little in the way of adulthood outside of his overprotective upbringing and the adulatory, toadying fantasy land of Hollywood. Bradshaw's "inner child" therapy is a mere baby-step away from the Diaper Pail Fraternity, a Sausalito-based group for grown men who revert to incontinent fantasy, where surrogate mommies exclaim and coo as they wipe the kinky kid-fetishists' dirty behinds.

Spielberg's is redolent not only of the inner-child component of recovery, but also its darker aspect: child molestation. Bradshaw seeks to place blame for psychological malaise on a dimly remembered past in which some form of traumatic abuse took place. The less the so-called abuse is remembered, the more convinced are Bradshawian therapists that it actually occurred. At the time that "Hook" went into production, all the radio and television talk shows fixated upon child abuse in a catharsis of mass scapegoating. Suddenly, millions of Americans were convinced that they had been molested by their nuclear family or ritually abused by Satanists.

On the crest of the child-abuse wave, Spielberg's Peter Pan project was transformed into Hook, whose ad campaign abandoned the traditional flying fairies in lieu of a stark visual of the prosthetic steel claw gleaming against a black background. The gruesome hieroglyphic was a perfect mnemonic device (see Hook, think Hook) ”but more importantly, it transferred any possible pedophilic overtones from Spielberg himself (the auteur hero) to the classically pederastic fantasy figure of Captain Hook, the fiend who spirits children away to a Neverland where Cabbage Patch foundlings enliven the sodomitical lives of Village People pirates.

Here, Spielberg could be evading responsibility for his alleged tendencies by projecting them onto his villain, a strategy employed by Hitchcock and other directors renowned for their sadistic inclinations.

Peter Pan had, of course, become such a dusty chestnut that almost no one would object to its pedophilic content.

Who would remember that its author, Sir James Barrie, was a full-blown boy fancier who never consummated his marriage to actress Mary Ansell and carried on a passionate "friendship" with the sons of Sylvia and Arthur Llewelyn Davies?

Even today, no one can comfortably explain why Barrie insisted on naming his eternal child "Pan," after the goatish satyr of mythology.

In a tradition begun by Sir Barrie, most stage productions of Peter Pan cast a boyish woman in the lead role, a transvestite tradition Spielberg may well have paid homage to by casting Glenn Close as the bearded pirate named "Gutless."

Pederastic organizations such as NAMBLA insist that children are wise, sexual creatures who should be given the opportunity to be fondled, sucked, and anally penetrated by middle-aged men.

The NAMBLA Bulletin has a special column called "Boys in the Media," tracking the doings of such Hollywood chickens as Macaulay Culkin, known affectionately in the Bulletin as "Mac." The self-described "Ganymedian" L. Martin, who write the "Boys in the Media" column, spoke by phone about Stephen Spielberg and Hook.

"Spielberg is known for his interest in young boys, certainly," said Martin. "A lot of the members have been talking about Hook, telling me how much they enjoyed it."

NAMBLA spokesman Renato Corazza refused to confirm or deny Spielberg's possible membership in the Man/Boy Love Association: "We don't divule our membership rolls."

And is it merely accidental that another pederastic magazine goes by the acronym P.A.N. (Paedo Alert News)?

Spielberg's costume designer Anthony Powell endows Hook's "Lost Boys" with a cute Benetton-meets-Oliver Twist look tailor-made for the chicken-hawk sensibility. Dance of the Warriors, a futuristic fantasy about a warrior cult of young boys who fight right-wing Christians for the privilege of having sex with aging boy-lovers, sports on its cover a salt-and-pepper boy couple who almost precisely mirror two of Spielberg's Lost Boys. The book appeared in the pedophilia sections of gay bookstores just at the time that Hook was going into pre-production.

Just who are Spielberg's Lost Boys? Walter Keane-style big-eyed orphans? Lord of the Flies in Suburbialand?

Hook's smarmy press kit tries to make each personality distinct. There's Rufio ("the proud leader of the Lost Boys, whose determined jousting with Peter for the honor of guiding the troupe of ruffians leads to a new understanding between the two rivals in Neverland"); Ace ("the Lost Boy with all the angles figured out for his peers"); Thudbutt ("whose imposing size belies his gentle disposition among the Lost Boys--but don't get him angry!"); No Nap ("a street urchin complete with suspenders, knockers, a newsboys cap...and a heart of roughened gold"); Latchboy ("the curly-top redhead who always finds himself in the thick of any mischief contrived by the band of tarnished angels"); Pockets ("one of the smallest Losy Boys, who has a particular soft spot for helping Peter get his wings in Neverland"); and Too Small ("the tiniest Lost Boy in stature but one of the feistiest in nature, who wears his pajamas through thick and thin").

Hook's emotional highlight, strangely absent from the shooting script's first revised draft, is the touchy-feely communion of the adult Peter Pan and the Lost Boys. We're treated to prolonged takes of the tykes touching and caressing Robin Williams's face and body.

When the Lost Boys smear war paint on Wiliams's naked torso, the idyll is reminiscent of a certain gay body-painting video advertised in The Advocate "that focuses on creative eroticism, that expands and extends the beauty of foreplay."

There's not room enough to detail the pedophilic implications of other Spielberg productions: the man/boy relationship in "Empire of the Sun," which begins with John Malkovich's comment about young Christian Bale's "sweet mouth" and reaches its emotional climax when Malkovich directs the chicken to move his cot next to his; the child-alien/human ectodermal interactions in Close Encounters; and the sanitized incest theme of Back To The Future.

However, it was E.T., Spielberg's most exalted triumph, which seems to clothe boy-love fantasy in New Age vestments.

Spielberg uses every trick in the director's chapbook to induce us to love a wrinkled, potbellied cosmic interloper that hides in boys' closets and communicates with a glowing, phallic finger.

It was young Henry Thomas's taunt to his twelve-year-old celluloid brother--"penis breath"--that had Spielberg conjure, if only for a disturbing instant, the image of a bald-faced lad with a cock in his mouth.

Although the "negligent" participants got off with nary a knuckle-rap, we must not forget that Spielberg also produced the actual snuff film "Twilight Zone," in which Vic Morrow and two young children were beheaded during filming.

Perhaps the most perverse aspect of Steven Spielberg's work is its obsessive posture of sentimental innocence.

Psychologists trained in the vocabulary of sex criminals often note the cloak of goo-goos and sugar frosting as the subconscious moral gymnastics of repression and guilt transference.

But now that "Jurassic Park" has more openly revealed the overtly sadistic aspect of Steven Spielberg's curious desires, there is only one more place to go for this self-styled avatar of contemporary myth. His movie, "Schindler's List," was filmed in Auschwitz.

The above article mentions a real-life pyrotechnics accident which occurred in 1982 on the film set of Twilight Zone, where a
helicopter crashed in an explosion and decapitated actor Vic Morrow and two child actors.

see it here:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81691077/

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/m/Vic%20Morrow/kids.jpg

QUOTE
Vic was an established actor. He had an okay list of credits to his name, which you can view at the Internet Movie Data Base www.imdb.com - if you are interested. The little kids in this story, Myca Dinh Le, and Renee Shin-Yi Chen weren't as established, as they were 7 and 6 respectively. They were filming a segment for the Stephen Spielberg produced film, Twilight Zone - The Movie. This particular segment, Time Out, was about a bigoted man being in the place of those he feels hatred towards. An interesting concept, it was directed by John Landis - famous for taking risks during filming. Just watch The Blues Brothers movie, and you will see to what lengths he would go, to achieve a reaction.

Earlier in his career, Morrow was in a film called Dirty Mary Crazy Larry. There was a scene where he was supposed to fly in a helicopter. "I'm not getting up in the helicopter - I have a premonition that I'm going to get killed in a helicopter crash." The clue phone was ringing - no one picked up.

Vic was living in a house in Sherman Oaks. Couldn't see the house very well, but the gates were extremely visible. Apparently his street was private, so I didn't snoop in his mailbox.

The two children in the scene were not professional actors, and they weren�t on proper work permits. Their sequence was to be filmed around 2am, and contracts for children normally stipulate that they be finished much earlier. The children�s parents were thrilled to have her family involved in a real Hollywood film, and Landis wasn't that bothered with dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The segment was to take place in the jungles of Vietnam - the real location being Indian Dunes Park, a dirt bike park near Six Flags over Magic Mountain theme park.

At 2:20am on the morning of July 23, 1982, the final shot of the sequence was being filmed. Morrow would have two children in his arms, wading across a knee-deep river in the (obviously) dark. Also in the shot would be a village under military siege, and a helicopter coming towards them. The shot would be littered with gigantic explosions. It didn't go well.

My friend Jody and I went on a trek to find this park. Finally found the intersection of where it should have been, but had no luck. After driving around for a bit, I found a fire station and went in. I swear, it was like I walked into a porn film. Man. Anyway, they were very kind to me, and told me that the park is no longer in existence. I asked if there was any way to get in. They showed me a map of the area, and where the filming was, but honestly they got so technical, my mind fogged over and I lost the will to live. So, my Findadeath.com friends, you'll have to live with these shots, unless someone else can get in there.

After Landis called ACTION!, the scene commenced. Morrow and the children, trying to get thru the river, while these amazing explosions were pounding all around them. Even the special effects people were a bit freaked out. Then the helicopter enters the scene. Landis screamed, "Lower! Lower! Lower!" to direct the chopper downwards, and it actually came to just 24 feet above the water. Morrow must have been shitting himself, but you know what? It was to be the last one of his life.

There were cameras whizzing away during this entire event. There was even a guy standing on the skid of the helicopter, filming the entire thing. These explosions were big. Way big. Just when the pilot of the copter was about to split the scene, two more blasts came, and he went out of control. Everyone that could, got the hell out of there. Vic lost his grip on Renee, but in the time he tried to get her back, the helicopter landed on top of her, crushing her to death. The 40 foot in diameter blades decapitated Morrow and little Myca Le. The cameras were still rolling.

Landis and his assistant director made their way down to the scene, and his assistant was the guy that found Vic's torso in the water. The people in the helicopter made it out okay.

"Leave your equipment where it is. Everyone go home. Please, everyone go home!" was the announcement made.

Jack Rimmer, one of the fire-safety officers, covered Vic Morrow�s torso and set it on a bank. As he was wading across the river to the village to douse the fires there, Rimmer found Myca Le�s head in the water. A crew member brought over a plastic garbage bag and placed the little boy's severed head inside. Special effects technician Kevin Quibell located Vic's head, which was placed in another black plastic bag. Post accident, the helicopter sat in place.

Many people were taken to emergency room of the nearby Henry Mayo Newhall Memorial Hospital in Valencia, for treatment of injuries and shock.

Vic's funeral took place on July 25th, and John Landis gave a eulogy. He is buried at Hillside Memorial Park.

On July 27th, both children had their funerals, which Landis also attended. Renee is buried in Forest Lawn Glendale.

Myca Le is buried in Cerritos.

Indian Dunes Park is now private. I really don't know what they do in there, but you can't get in. No matter how hard you try. And I did. This is the road we took, to the closest we could get.

Added May 2002: Findadeath.com friend Mike Jones sends us this: Enjoyed your article about Vic Morrow and the filming of "The Twilight Zone". FYI: Indian Dunes is now owned by the Newhall Ranch Development Company in Newhall, California. They closed the area to movie and film production some time ago.

Indian Dunes has been used for many movies and television programs, most notably "Black Sheep Squadron" with Robert Conrad and "Some Kind Of Hero" with Richard Pryor. I believe the last film made at Indian Dunes was "The Rocketeer" and the last television production was "China Beach". There were many silent films and westerns made here years ago and I believe that part of "Escape From New York" was also filmed there.


The Newhall Ranch Development Company owns practically every inch of land in the area and closed the area in the early 90's for what they termed "agricultural use", but everyone and their brother knew what would be next. Currently there are preliminary plans to construct over 20,000 homes in the area, thus destroying what may be the very last open and unobstructed parcels of land in the region. There has been a HUGE uproar over the proposal and, much like Los Angeles before the LA river system, the big gripe is over water and the amount needed to supply the huge development.


There are two books which discuss the tragedy in detail. The first, "Outrageous Conduct", you mentioned. However, there is another book entitled "Special Effects" by Ron LaBrecque that is equally mesmerizing. It even suggests that Steven Spielberg, Exec Producer, was on the scene immediately after the accident, but left before the authorities arrived. Oh, well, that's HOLLYWOOD!

Everybody filed lawsuits. I mean everybody. Landis went on trial for involuntary manslaughter, but was acquitted. Warner Bros. settled the civil suits for about $2 million each.

Vic had two daughters. One called Carrie, the other one messed her name about and is now called Jennifer Jason Leigh. Vic�s will left everything to his daughter Carrie, and a hundred bucks to Jennifer. They didn't get along.

You can see the scenes where the accident happened, if you watch this youtube video. Thank you Amy.



Many thanks to Stephen Farber and Marc Green, and their fantastic book Outrageous Conduct: Art, Ego and the Twilight Zone Case. It really is fascinating reading. You can get it from Amazon, if you click the link below.

Outrageous Conduct if you are in the USA Outrageous Conduct : if you are in the UK

September 2002:
I have a cousin who did 13 months as a Marine grunt in Nam back in 68-69. He said that in the area he was in, the South Vietnamese Army Commanders showed reruns of Vic Morrow's early sixties series COMBAT! to their troops. They thought old Vic was a badder ass than John Wayne himself. They went nuts for the guy. Years later, I bought a book on armored units used in the Vietnam War. (I used to build model dioramas...I know, super geek stuff, but it kept me from stealing hub caps.) I found a photograph in it of an ARVN tank circa. 1968, with VIC MORROW scrawled across the turret in huge white letters. Crazy world, man... Seriously crazy world. Peace.

UPDATE February 2005, from Findadeath friend Collette:
Scott:

I don't know if this information is anything you care to revise your reporting for, but here goes.

Dick Peabody, the actor who portrayed "Little John" in the "Combat" series, had kept in contact with Vic Morrow. Upon his death, Vic Morrow's first wife and mother of his two children (Barbara Turner) asked Dick Peabody and Rick Jason to perform the eulogies at Mr. Morrow's funeral. She also requested they help with her two daughters in any way they could.

It is reported by Dick Peabody that John Landis showed up at Mr. Morrow's funeral unannounced, and gave an unrequested and rambling eulogy that sounded more like a plug for the "Twilight Zone" movie than anything else. This idiot's eulogy offended and upset Mr. Morrow's family and friends.

If you are in any way interested in this information, you can access www.CombatFan.com (click on "Cast" and then Dick Peabody and the article "In Harm's Way: Vic Morrow's death on the set of the Twilight Zone movie"). There is an interesting quote Mr. Peabody makes note of - he claims it is one the last things Mr. Morrow said before his death, but he does not name his source for the information.

I was not personally at the funeral, nor did I personally know the late Vic Morrow or the late Dick Peabody. I am simply a fan of Mr. Morrow's, and consider John Landis to be a careless, idiotic, egotistical man responsible (indirectly) for the deaths of three persons.

eternal1stparty
25-12-2013, 12:57 AM
^ brilliant post and excerpt.

wwiikkdd
25-12-2013, 04:27 AM
I grew up on Vic Morrow stuff. He really laid it down. A great find hunka.

wwiikkdd
25-12-2013, 10:29 PM
Norris was born in Ryan, Oklahoma on March 10, 1940,[5] the son of Wilma (née Scarberry) and Ray Norris, who was a mechanic, bus driver, and truck driver.[6] Norris has English, and smaller amounts of Scottish, Welsh, and German, ancestry; he is also said to have Cherokee roots.[1][7][8] Norris was named after Carlos Berry, his father's minister.[9] He has two younger brothers, Wieland (deceased) and Aaron (a Hollywood producer). When Norris was sixteen, his parents divorced,[10] and he later relocated to Prairie Village, Kansas, and then to Torrance, California, with his mother and brothers.[1]
Norris has described his childhood as downbeat. He was nonathletic, shy, and scholastically mediocre.[11]
He joined the United States Air Force as an Air Policeman (AP) in 1958 and was sent to Osan Air Base, South Korea. It was there that Norris acquired the nickname Chuck and began his training in Tang Soo Do (tangsudo), an interest that led to black belts in that art and the founding of the Chun Kuk Do ("Universal Way") form.[12] When he returned to the United States, he continued to act as an AP at March Air Force Base in California.
Norris was discharged in August 1962. He worked for the Northrop Corporation and opened a chain of Karate schools including a storefront school in his then-hometown of Torrance on Hawthorne Boulevard. Norris' official website lists celebrity clients at the schools; among them Steve McQueen, Chad McQueen, Bob Barker, Priscilla Presley, Donny Osmond and Marie Osmond.[13]
Martial arts career



Norris in 1976


Norris on the set of the film The Delta Force (1986)
Norris was defeated in his first two tournaments, dropping decisions to Joe Lewis and Allen Steen and three matches at the International Karate Championships to Tony Tulleners. By 1967 Norris had improved enough that he scored victories over the likes of Lewis, Skipper Mullins, Arnold Urquidez, Victor Moore, Ron Marchini, and Steve Sanders. In early 1968, Norris suffered the tenth and last loss of his career, losing an upset decision to Louis Delgado. On November 24, 1968, he avenged his defeat to Delgado and by doing so won the Professional Middleweight Karate champion title, which he held for six consecutive years.[10] In 1969, he won Karate's triple crown for the most tournament wins of the year, and the Fighter of the Year award by Black Belt Magazine.
Norris made history in 1990 when he was the first Westerner in the documented history of Tae Kwon Do to be given the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master.[14] In 1999, Norris was inducted into the Martial Arts History Museum's Hall of Fame. On July 1, 2000, Norris was presented the Golden Lifetime Achievement Award by the World Karate Union Hall of Fame. ~~~~~This struck me as another 'nobody' that transforms himself with the help/programing of the military. Really it is too good to be true story. The details of his military life are the obvious key to the great change. Again and again the 'star's' have the fingerprints of the military/industrial complex all over them.

greydove
27-12-2013, 10:16 PM
Spotted over on the Savile thread. Amazing info!

http://lunamoth1.blogspot.com/2011/09/man-in-photo-taken-at-mcgill-university.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--TL7j2AH49Q/TmCJIgBopYI/AAAAAAAAALc/Aimu0I2_xpc/s1600/mcgill%2Bhebb%2Bexperiment.jpg

The man in the photo, taken at McGill University in 1951, is 17-year-old Leonard Cohen. He's wearing a blindfold, and his ears, fingers and hands are encased in padded restraints which prevent movement and cut off all sensory stimulation. This is one of Dr. Donald Hebb's famous/notorious sensory isolation experiments, for which student volunteers were paid the then-princely sum of $20 a day. Some of the volunteers were unable to stand this torture for more than a few hours. Some tore off the bandages and banged on the door of the isolation chamber, screaming and crying to be released.

Back in the 1980s, when I lived next door to him, Leonard Cohen once told me he enjoyed these experiments. He said he learned to dissociate, leave his body, and go on long voyages through the universe. The experience was so pleasant that later he volunteered to be placed in a flotation tank while on LSD. He enjoyed that, too.

We now know that D.O. Hebb's sensory isolation experiments became the foundation for torture techniques used by the CIA etc. in its secret prisons around the planet. Hebb, a neurologist, had CIA clearance, and also allegedly experimented on small children, mainly orphans and aboriginal children who arrived in his laboratory courtesy of McGill and the RCMP. Having access to human guinea pigs made Hebb's research that much more impressive. He also, of course, worked with rats and monkeys. It seems quite likely that his famous "rat" study on the effects of sensory isolation on IQ, would have been based on his experiments with children. McGill, at the time, was controlled by a network that included many British-trained, mind controlled pedophiles with an interest in eugenics -- and probably still is today.

hunkahunka
27-12-2013, 11:04 PM
Norris was born in Ryan, Oklahoma on March 10, 1940,[5] the son of Wilma (née Scarberry) and Ray Norris, who was a mechanic, bus driver, and truck driver.[6] Norris has English, and smaller amounts of Scottish, Welsh, and German, ancestry; he is also said to have Cherokee roots.[1][7][8] Norris was named after Carlos Berry, his father's minister.[9] He has two younger brothers, Wieland (deceased) and Aaron (a Hollywood producer). When Norris was sixteen, his parents divorced,[10] and he later relocated to Prairie Village, Kansas, and then to Torrance, California, with his mother and brothers.[1]
Norris has described his childhood as downbeat. He was nonathletic, shy, and scholastically mediocre.[11]
He joined the United States Air Force as an Air Policeman (AP) in 1958 and was sent to Osan Air Base, South Korea. It was there that Norris acquired the nickname Chuck and began his training in Tang Soo Do (tangsudo), an interest that led to black belts in that art and the founding of the Chun Kuk Do ("Universal Way") form.[12] When he returned to the United States, he continued to act as an AP at March Air Force Base in California.
Norris was discharged in August 1962. He worked for the Northrop Corporation and opened a chain of Karate schools including a storefront school in his then-hometown of Torrance on Hawthorne Boulevard. Norris' official website lists celebrity clients at the schools; among them Steve McQueen, Chad McQueen, Bob Barker, Priscilla Presley, Donny Osmond and Marie Osmond.[13]
Martial arts career



Norris in 1976


Norris on the set of the film The Delta Force (1986)
Norris was defeated in his first two tournaments, dropping decisions to Joe Lewis and Allen Steen and three matches at the International Karate Championships to Tony Tulleners. By 1967 Norris had improved enough that he scored victories over the likes of Lewis, Skipper Mullins, Arnold Urquidez, Victor Moore, Ron Marchini, and Steve Sanders. In early 1968, Norris suffered the tenth and last loss of his career, losing an upset decision to Louis Delgado. On November 24, 1968, he avenged his defeat to Delgado and by doing so won the Professional Middleweight Karate champion title, which he held for six consecutive years.[10] In 1969, he won Karate's triple crown for the most tournament wins of the year, and the Fighter of the Year award by Black Belt Magazine.
Norris made history in 1990 when he was the first Westerner in the documented history of Tae Kwon Do to be given the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master.[14] In 1999, Norris was inducted into the Martial Arts History Museum's Hall of Fame. On July 1, 2000, Norris was presented the Golden Lifetime Achievement Award by the World Karate Union Hall of Fame. ~~~~~This struck me as another 'nobody' that transforms himself with the help/programing of the military. Really it is too good to be true story. The details of his military life are the obvious key to the great change. Again and again the 'star's' have the fingerprints of the military/industrial complex all over them.

right you are. thanks to you, we now are closer to the secret of Chuck Norris. Reminds of Tiger Woods raised on a navy base with Bob Hope hanging around him and Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson and a whole slew of others. The roots almost always seem to lead back to mk ops and military/intelligence circles. Even Elvis was connected to Colonel Tom Parker.

Fascinating read on Colonel Tom Parker:




February 24, 2012
Colonel Parker managed Elvis’ career, but was he a killer on the lam?
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2012/02/colonel-parker-managed-elvis-career-but-was-he-a-killer-on-the-lam/#ixzz2oidXBt9a (http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2012/02/colonel-parker-managed-elvis-career-but-was-he-a-killer-on-the-lam/#ixzz2oidXBt9a)


The Colonel always was a mystery. But that was very much the way he liked it.

It was, of course, a tough trick to pull off, because the Colonel’s name was Tom Parker, and Tom Parker managed Elvis Presley. Since Elvis was the biggest name in the entertainment industry, his manager could hardly help appearing in the spotlight, too. For the most part that was not a problem, because Parker had showman’s instincts and enjoyed publicity. But, even so, he was always anxious to ensure that attention never settled for very long on two vexed questions: exactly who he was and where he came from.

So far as the wider world knew, the Colonel was Thomas Andrew Parker, born in Huntingdon, West Virginia, some time shortly after 1900. He had toured with carnivals, worked with elephants and managed a palm-reading booth before finding his feet in the early 1950s as a music promoter. Had anyone taken the trouble to inquire, however, they would have discovered that there was no record of the birth of any Thomas Parker in Huntingdon. They might also have discovered that Tom Parker had never held a U.S. passport—and that while he had served in the U.S. Army, he had done so as a private. Indeed, Parker’s brief military career had ended in ignominy. In 1932, he had gone absent without leave and served several months in military prison for desertion. He was released only after he had suffered what his biographer Alanna Nash terms a “psychotic breakdown.” Diagnosed as a psychopath, he was discharged from the Army. A few years later, when the draft was introduced during the World War II, Parker ate until he weighed more than 300 pounds in a successful bid to have himself declared unfit for further service.

For the most part, these details did not emerge until the 1980s, years after Presley’s death and well into the Colonel’s semi-retirement (he eventually died in 1997). But when they did they seemed to explain why, throughout his life, Parker had taken such enormous care to keep his past hidden—why he had settled a lawsuit with Elvis’ record company when it became clear that he would have to face cross-examination under oath, and why, far from resorting to the sort of tax-avoidance schemes that managers typically offered to their clients, he had always let the IRS calculate his taxes. The lack of a passport might even explain the single greatest mystery of Presley’s career: why the Colonel had turned down dozens of offers, totaling millions of dollars, to have his famous client tour the world. Elvis was just as famous in London, Berlin and Tokyo–yet in a career of almost 30 years, he played a total of only three concerts on foreign soil, in Canada in 1957. Although border-crossing formalities were minimal then, the Colonel did not accompany him.

Although it took years for the story to leak out, the mystery of the Colonel’s origins had actually been solved as early as the spring of 1960, in the unlikely surrounds of a hairdressers’ salon in the Dutch town of Eindhoven. There a woman by the name of Nel Dankers-van Kuijk flicked through a copy of Rosita, a Belgian women’s magazine. It carried a story about Presley’s recent discharge from the U.S. Army, illustrated by a photo of the singer standing in the doorway of a train and waving to his fans. The large figure of Elvis’s manager, standing grinning just behind his charge, made Dankers-van Kuijk jump.

The man had aged and grown grotesquely fat. But she still knew him as her long-lost brother.

Far from being born in West Virginia, Tom Parker was in fact a native of the city of Breda, in the southern part of the Netherlands. He had been born there in June 1909, the seventh child of a delivery driver and his wife. His real name was Andreas van Kuijk–”Dries” (pronounced “Drees”) to his family–and as far as anyone could tell, he changed it to Tom Parker because that was the name of the officer who interviewed him when he signed up for the Army. Huntington, West Virginia, meanwhile, was a stop along the route of the carnivals that the Dutch teenager worked when he first came to the States. Parker, or Van Kuijk, had other secrets too. Not the least of them was that he was an illegal immigrant, reaching the United States most probably through Canada. Nor had he ever been naturalized as an American.

The Colonel was largely able to suppress all these unwelcome details; when his overjoyed family sent a brother to the States to see him, the Colonel received him coolly—worried, apparently, that his mother and his siblings might be after money. When brother Ad returned to Breda, moreover, he remained perplexingly silent on the subject of Dries’s glamorous new life. He hadn’t talked much about personal matters, Nash reports, beyond mentioning that he had painted sparrows yellow and sold them as canaries. Some members of the family suspected that Parker had paid him not to talk.

Details of Van Kuijk’s childhood in Breda eventually emerged a few years later, but only in It’s Elvis Time, a small-circulation Dutch fan magazine. From there, they were picked up in the late 1970s by Elvis biographer Albert Goldman. But as late as 1982, the idea that Parker had not been born American was still little more than rumor in the States.

The Colonel’s exposure as an illegal immigrant makes it easier to understand his deep reluctance to leave the States—or even, as he once confided to a trusted assistant, to pick up the check he had earned while working his passage from the Netherlands. But his apparent unwillingness to solve what should have been a minor problem does remain a puzzle. After all, the Alien Registration Act of 1940 had offered an effective amnesty to all illegals, and when Elvis made it big his manager made plenty of powerful new friends. By the 1960s, Parker could have placed a phone call directly to Lyndon Johnson to smooth out any problems with his naturalization.

Only when Elvis died, in 1977, at age 42, did the first hints emerge that something far more unpleasant was lurking in the Colonel’s past, and once again they did so in the Netherlands. There, in Parker’s hometown, a journalist named Dirk Vellenga got a tip–it was “Do you know that Tom Parker comes from Breda? His father was a stableman for van Gend en Loos on the Vlaszak,” he recalled for Alanna Nash—and set on what would become a 30-year search for the truth about the Colonel.

At first, all Vellenga’s inquiries turned up was old tales from the Van Kuijk family, who still remembered how their Dries had been the family storyteller and liked to dress as a dandy. But his investigation took a much more sinister turn after he received a second tip in 1980.

Vellenga had been filing occasional updates on the Parker story—the Colonel was by far the most famous son of Breda—and found that he was building a detailed picture of what was by any standard a hasty departure. Parker, he learned, had vanished in May 1929 without telling any of his family or friends where he was heading, without taking his identity papers, and without money or even the expensive clothing he had spent most of his wages on. “This means,” notes Nash, that “he set out in a foreign country literally penniless.” In the late 1970s, Vellenga ended one of his newspaper features by posing what seemed to him a reasonable question: “Did something serious happen before Parker left that summer in 1929, or maybe in the 1930s when he broke all contact with his family?”

At least one of his readers thought that question deserved an answer, and a short while later an anonymous letter was delivered to Vellenga’s paper.



“Gentlemen,” it began. At last, I want to say what was told to me 19 years ago about this Colonel Parker. My mother-in-law said to me, if anything comes to light about this Parker, tell them that his name is Van Kuijk and that he murdered the wife of a greengrocer on the Bochstraat….

This murder has never been solved. But look it up and you will discover that he, on that very night, left for America and adopted a different name. And that is why it is so mysterious. That’s why he does not want to be known.

Turning hastily to his newspaper’s files, Vellenga found to his amazement that there had indeed been an unsolved killing in Breda in May 1929. Anna van den Enden, a 23-year-old newlywed, had been battered to death in the living quarters behind her store—a greengrocer’s on the Bochstraat. The premises had then been ransacked, apparently fruitlessly, in a search for money. After that, the killer had scattered a thin layer of pepper around the body before fleeing, apparently in the hope of preventing police dogs from picking up his scent.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/files/2012/02/breda1310050098px-375x500.jpg
The Nieuwe Bochstraat, Breda. Number 31, the store in which Anna van den Enden was murdered, is the white-fronted building just in front of the first car.

The discovery left Vellenga perplexed. The 19 years of silence that his mysterious correspondent mentioned took the story as far back as 1961—exactly the year that the Van Kuijk family had made contract with Parker, and Ad van Kuijk had returned from his visit to the Colonel so remarkably tight-lipped. And the spot where the murder had occurred was only a few yards away from what had been, in 1929, Parker’s family home. Members of the Colonel’s family even recalled that he had been paid to make deliveries for a greengrocer in the area, though they could no longer remember which one.

The evidence, though, remained entirely circumstantial. Not a single witness at the time suggested that Andreas van Kuijk had ever been a suspect. And when Alanna Nash went through the Dutch courts to obtain a copy of the original police report on the murder, she found that nowhere in its 130 handwritten pages was there any mention of the young man who would become the Colonel. The most she could point to were a series of eyewitness statements that suggested the killer had been an unusually well-dressed man, clad in a bright coat—light yellow, always Tom Parker’s favorite color.

The mystery of Anna van den Enden’s death is unlikely to be solved; the original investigation was woefully inadequate, and every one of the witnesses is dead. What remains is the curious coincidence of Parker’s hasty disappearance, the evidence that he was psychopathic—and the testimony of those who knew him as a man of ungovernable temper.

“I really don’t think that there was murder in him,” Todd Slaughter of the Elvis Presley Fan Club of Great Britain told Alanna Nash after knowing Parker for a quarter-century. But others in the Colonel’s circle disagreed. “I don’t think that there’s any doubt he killed that woman,” said Lamar Fike, a member of Elvis Presley’s Memphis Mafia. “He had a terrible temper. He and I got into some violent, violent fights.”

“It took very little to set him off,” added Parker’s assistant, Byron Raphael.

In those fits of rage, he was a very dangerous man, and he certainly appeared capable of killing. He would be nice one second, and stare off like he was lost, and then–boom!–tremendous force. He’d just snap. You never saw it coming. Then five minutes later, he would be so gentle, telling a nice soft story.

Nash and Vellenga have their own version of events, one that they insist best fits the facts. Parker, they suggest, went to van den Enden’s store looking for money to fund his emigration to America. Probably he had known the woman; perhaps he had even desired her—and then been angered by her recent marriage. Either way, what had been meant as the robbery of an empty store had gone wrong, and, in a sudden burst of fear and temper, the Colonel had lashed out and killed a woman without meaning to.

That version doesn’t fully fit the facts; it’s impossible to know now within a week when Parker left the Netherlands, and hence how closely his departure coincided with the Breda murder. And Nash, Vellenga and every other biographer of both Presley and Parker acknowledge that the Colonel never showed much interest in women. He had no children, and he treated his wife as a companion, not as a lover. But, backed by some members of the Van Kuijk family, Nash still believes it more likely than not that Colonel Parker was a killer.

" It could have been a coincidence, yes, of course. I cannot say without reservation that he killed this woman. I offer it only as a theory, a possibility. Even his Dutch family is willing to admit that it is a possibility, though they believe, as I do, that if he killed her, it was an accident".

I will say that he had an amazing ability to compartmentalize events and feelings in his mind. If something troubled him too much, he was able to store it in a back corner of his consciousness, though he always had trouble keeping it there. Certainly whatever happened in Holland that made him leave his family, with whom he was very close, and to just cut them off, was of a very grave nature. He missed them, but didn’t want to foist his troubles off on them. I know that from a letter he wrote to his nephew in the ’60s after his family identified him from a magazine photo and began to write to him."

Nash sums things up this way:

“I want to be clear in saying that there is no hard proof that he committed this murder, [but] in my heart of hearts, I believe he did. Certainly the way he lived his life, for the duration of his years, suggests a secret of that kind of gravity. In other words, if that’s not what happened back in Holland, something equally awful did.”

Sources
Dineke Dekkers. “Tom Parker… American or Dutchman?” It’s Elvis Time, April 1967; Alanna Nash. The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley. London: Aurum 2003; Dirk Vellenga with Mick Farran. Elvis and the Colonel. New York: Delacorte Press, 1988.

hunkahunka
27-12-2013, 11:33 PM
seems the Rothschilds plan for a gay mk slave society is foundering
a bit:

A&E CAVES: PHIL ROBERTSON BACK ON 'DUCK DYNASTY'
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/a-e-welcomes-phil-robertson-667647

A&E Welcomes Phil Robertson Back to 'Duck Dynasty'

Less than two weeks after his anti-gay remarks prompted an "indefinite hiatus" for the reality patriarch — and a strong fan backlash — the network says he will remain on the series.

Phil Robertson, the patriarch of A&E's Duck Dynasty clan who was suspended from his hit reality series on Dec. 18 following some incendiary comments about gay people, won't be put on hiatus after all.

The network and the Robertson family announced Friday that Phil will still be part of the series -- and since he didn't miss any filming, his temporary suspension will have no effect on the upcoming fifth season.

An A&E statement to The Hollywood Reporter read:

As a global media content company, A+E Networks' core values are centered around creativity, inclusion and mutual respect. We believe it is a privilege for our brands to be invited into people’s home and we operate with a strong sense of integrity and deep commitment to these principals.

That is why we reacted so quickly and strongly to a recent interview with Phil Robertson. While Phil’s comments made in the interview reflect his personal views based on his own beliefs, and his own personal journey, he and his family have publicly stated they regret the “coarse language” he used and the mis-interpretation of his core beliefs based only on the article. He also made it clear he would “never incite or encourage hate.” We at A+E Networks expressed our disappointment with his statements in the article, and reiterate that they are not views we hold.

But Duck Dynasty is not a show about one man's views. It resonates with a large audience because it is a show about family… a family that America has come to love. As you might have seen in many episodes, they come together to reflect and pray for unity, tolerance and forgiveness. These are three values that we at A+E Networks also feel strongly about.

So after discussions with the Robertson family, as well as consulting with numerous advocacy groups, A&E has decided to resume filming Duck Dynasty later this spring with the entire Robertson family.

We will also use this moment to launch a national public service campaign (PSA) promoting unity, tolerance and acceptance among all people, a message that supports our core values as a company, and the values found in Duck Dynasty. These PSAs will air across our entire portfolio.

In addition, an A&E source says the family and the network are going to work together to promote tolerance moving forward.

Robertson's comments in GQ magazine, which included the 67-year-old likening homosexuality to "bestiality," prompted an almost immediate announcement from A&E.

PHOTOS: 'Duck Dynasty,' Matthew McConaughey, 'Breaking Bad' and THR's Rule Breakers of 2013

"We are extremely disappointed to have read Phil Robertson's comments in GQ, which are based on his own personal beliefs and are not reflected in the series Duck Dynasty," read a network statement at the time. "His personal views in no way reflect those of A+E Networks, who have always been strong supporters and champions of the LGBT community. The network has placed Phil under hiatus from filming indefinitely."

A&E's swift reaction to the comments, praised by some, prompted objections from many fans of the show. Prior to his reinstatement, a petition started by Christian fans gathered north of 200,000 signatures demanding he be put back on the series. Robertson and the rest of his family have stood by the controversial comments that prompted the media furor, putting the future of A&E's top-rated series in question.

On Sunday, Robertson delivered a sermon at his West Monroe, La., church. "I will not give or back off from my path," he told the crowd -- though he did seem to soften a bit, adding "I love all men and women. I am a lover of humanity, not a hater."

The political fallout has also been significant. Following initial calls to action from GLAAD, people from both side of the political spectrum have weighed in on Robertson's comments and suspension. It's been a popular topic of debate on Fox News, and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal was among the first to come to Robertson's defense.

PHOTOS: 'Duck Dynasty's' Phil Robertson and Other Stars Who've Made Anti-Gay Remarks

The Robertsons' somewhat vague initial reaction to Phil's removal -- "we cannot imagine the show going forward without our patriarch at the helm" -- prompted many to suggest that the cast would not continue filming. But the Robertsons also recently re-signed to stay onboard A&E's top-rated series. After settling a months-long salary standoff in August, A&E signed the entire Robertson clan to a multiyear deal worth more than $200,000 per episode.

For its part, A&E did little else in the wake of Robertson's comments than the initial suspension. Encores of the series have continued to air, including a marathon on Christmas Day, and canceling or delaying the Jan. 15 season-five premiere never seemed to be on the table.

Duck Dynasty is a huge asset for A&E. In addition to being the top-rated reality program on cable, second across all of cable to only The Walking Dead with an average 13.4 million viewers and 7.6 million adults 18-49 in live-plus-7 ratings, Duck Dynasty has multiple brand tie-ins. Duck Dynasty gear is available in retailers across the U.S., including Walmart, Sears and Cracker Barrel restaurants.

The entire Robertson family has been on hiatus for duck hunting season, a contractual stipulation, which continues through Jan. 26 in their native Louisiana.

hunkahunka
30-12-2013, 05:11 PM
From the honorary Jeffrey Dahmer detachment of the Milwaukee police Dept.:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/29/judge-hands-down-unbelievably-lenient-sentence-for-cop-who-fingered-suspects-anuses/

http://www.copwatchers.org/Michael_Vagnini.html

hunkahunka
30-12-2013, 05:28 PM
http://image.motorcyclecruiser.com/f/newsandupdates/1005_crup_milwaukee_police_celebrate_100_years_har ley_davidsons/29211211+pheader_460x1000/1005_crup_01_o+milwaukee_police+group.jpg

Milwaukee Police Celebrate 100 Years On Harley-Davidsons
An entire century
May 17, 2010


An entire century. That's how long the Milwaukee Police Department has motored around Brew City on Harley-Davidsons. In recognition of the 100th anniversary of its use of Harley motorcycles to patrol the streets, the Milwaukee Police Department motorcycle unit held its shift change roll call at the Harley-Davidson Museum on May 13 during the first of the Museum's weekly Bike Nights for 2010. Willie G. and Bill Davidson were joined by MPD Chief Edward Flynn for the ceremony, which was attended by over 40 motorcycle officers and their Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Police motorcycles. Here's to another 100 years....

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/1005_crup_milwaukee_police_celebrate_100_years_har ley_davidsons/#ixzz2oypWL7bK

hunkahunka
31-12-2013, 03:06 AM
I grew up on Vic Morrow stuff. He really laid it down. A great find hunka.

All except for this pic, I still can't quite figure out what is supposed to be happening here:

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/m/Vic%20Morrow/kids.jpg

wwiikkdd
31-12-2013, 11:13 PM
http://image.motorcyclecruiser.com/f/newsandupdates/1005_crup_milwaukee_police_celebrate_100_years_har ley_davidsons/29211211+pheader_460x1000/1005_crup_01_o+milwaukee_police+group.jpg

Milwaukee Police Celebrate 100 Years On Harley-Davidsons
An entire century
May 17, 2010


An entire century. That's how long the Milwaukee Police Department has motored around Brew City on Harley-Davidsons. In recognition of the 100th anniversary of its use of Harley motorcycles to patrol the streets, the Milwaukee Police Department motorcycle unit held its shift change roll call at the Harley-Davidson Museum on May 13 during the first of the Museum's weekly Bike Nights for 2010. Willie G. and Bill Davidson were joined by MPD Chief Edward Flynn for the ceremony, which was attended by over 40 motorcycle officers and their Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Police motorcycles. Here's to another 100 years....

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/1005_crup_milwaukee_police_celebrate_100_years_har ley_davidsons/#ixzz2oypWL7bK
Large number of masonic lodges in Milwaukee. Of course the entire state is saturated w/Roman PAgan Catholics. Much like the north eastern sea board states. Stange is how the real Outlaw MCs were created in the '50s-onward w/ HD's being the ride of choice. In the '60's they became very large, organized, drug and slave running and using NAzi artifacts for orating their clothes. Presto! CIA & Hollywood create another sub culture for the Swinging Sixties to consume as natural 'Americana'. More like Ameria-con-a-job.

hunkahunka
02-01-2014, 12:43 AM
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/inside-the-torture-of-americas-sigma-alpha-epsilon-fraternity/story-fnixwvgh-1226792584338

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/12/31/1226792/584311-62140ca6-71bc-11e3-a270-7f94192abf56.jpg
The Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity at Dartmouth

Revealed: inside America’s deadly fraternity

Jan 1st, 2014

IT IS one of America's most notorious fraternities with a dark reputation for hazing, risky behaviour and, in at least nine known cases, the death of students.

Now a former pledge from the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity has come clean about his experiences inside the fraternity, describing his eight-week initiation process as being like "Guantanamo Bay".

The SAE fraternity is one of the of largest in America with chapters in more than 240 campuses around the country.

Founded in 1856, it has about 14,000 undergraduate members in the US and Canada with alumni including a former president and high rollers in the US finance industry.

But it has also been dogged by controversy. Since 2006, nine people have died in events related to the fraternity.

In 2008, Carson Starkey, a freshman at California Polytechnic State University, died after drinking a mixture of beer and spirits at an initiation ritual. His family sued SAE and members for negligence and settled for at least $2.45 million.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/12/31/1226792/586795-5d0cad66-71bd-11e3-a270-7f94192abf56.jpg

In a series of interviews with Bloomberg News, a former pledge to the fraternity Justin Stuart describes his experiences at Salisbury College in Maryland, US as something out of "Guantanamo Bay".

During one initiation test he was forced to stand outside in his underwear in a rubbish bin filled to waist height with ice while he was sprayed with a hose.

At the time he was prepared to go through the eight-week initiation process, convinced that being part of the fraternity would bring him success in college and later on Wall St.

Other initiation rites included being beaten with a paddle; being forced to wear nappies and women's clothes and having to drink until he almost passed out.

Pledges were also left for up to nine hours in a dark basement with no food, water or toilet and were played a German rock song at excruciating volume.

"It was almost like torture," he told Bloomberg.

His interview is a rare first-person account of the hazing that goes on inside the fraternity.

After the university was made aware of his ordeal, the SAE chapter was suspended until the spring of 2014.

SAE has a long history and influential alumni with a headquarters in a gothic-style building in Evanston, Illinois.

Alumnus include U.S. President William McKinley, crime fighter Eliot Ness and novelist William Faulkner. Most of its members work in the finance industry.

hunkahunka
02-01-2014, 12:55 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-30/deadliest-frat-s-icy-torture-of-pledges-evokes-tarantino-films.html

Deadliest Frat’s Icy ‘Torture’ of Pledges Evokes Tarantino Films

By John Hechinger and David Glovin Dec 30, 2013

On a chilly March night, Sigma Alpha Epsilon brothers ordered Justin Stuart to recite the fraternity’s creed.

“The true gentleman,” said the 19-year-old freshman, shivering in the backyard, “is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies.”

It wasn’t easy to get the words out. Stuart was naked, except for his underwear, and standing in a trash can filled waist-deep with ice. Fraternity members sprayed him with a hose and poured buckets of water over his head. Convinced that SAE would bring him social success in college and then a Wall Street job, the lanky recruit from suburban Maryland endured the abuse.

During an eight-week initiation in 2012, SAE brothers at Salisbury University in Maryland beat Stuart with a paddle, forced pledges to drink until they almost passed out and dressed them in women’s clothing and diapers, Stuart said. Fraternity members confined recruits for as long as nine hours in a dark basement without food, water or a bathroom, while blasting the same German rock song at ear-splitting volume, according to Stuart, another former pledge, and the findings of the university’s disciplinary board.

“It honestly reminded me of Guantanamo Bay,” Stuart said during five hours of interviews with Bloomberg News. “It was almost like torture.”

‘Alarming’ Account'

Defying the fraternity code of secrecy, Stuart offered a rare first-person account of hazing at Sigma Alpha Epsilon, one of the largest and best-known fraternities in the U.S. -- and the deadliest. His ordeal prompted Salisbury to suspend the chapter through the spring of 2014. Stuart’s story and Salisbury’s investigation and findings have never been made public.

http://www.bloomberg.com/image/i2SMIiMfWdLk.png

The university’s disciplinary board determined that the facts supported Stuart’s “alarming” account and that the chapter violated Salisbury policies on alcohol, hazing, and threats or acts of violence, according to documents obtained by Bloomberg News under an open-records request.

“The actions of the members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity put the members of the pledge class in harm’s way both physically and emotionally,” the board found.

The Salisbury episode also shows how difficult it is for colleges to prevent hazing, and the extent to which alumni protect their fraternities. Investment executive J. Michael Scarborough, a founder of Salisbury’s SAE chapter, was so upset over its suspension that he withdrew a $2 million donation to the university.

Closed Chapters

Risking alumni wrath, universities have disciplined more than 100 Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapters since 2007, some repeatedly, according to a list published on the organization’s website as a result of a legal settlement. Colleges suspended or closed at least 15 SAE chapters in the past three years. SAE has had nine deaths related to drinking, drugs and hazing since 2006, more than any other Greek organization, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. In 2011, a sophomore pre-medical student at Cornell University died from alcohol poisoning after being blindfolded and kidnapped by SAE members in an induction ritual.

Reflecting SAE’s casualty rate, student members pay among the highest rates for liability insurance of any fraternity. Yet SAE has twice voted down a proposal to restrict their access to alcohol -- a measure another national fraternity credits with preventing injuries and deaths. SAE chapters need to protect students by increasing adult supervision, said Richard Shanahan, who serves as a volunteer liaison between its houses and alumni in Washington and Virginia.

‘Lived in Fear’

“I’ve lived in fear for a long time of something happening,” said Shanahan, a Washington lobbyist.

In a statement, SAE’s national fraternity organization said it has “zero tolerance for hazing,” and members who violate its rules “are in no way representative of the fraternity.” The infractions listed on its website represent a “low percentage” of its more than 240 chapters and 14,000 college members, SAE said.

Frank Ginocchio, SAE’s general counsel, said the students’ deaths nationwide result from “a perfect storm,” rather than shortcomings in oversight.

“We try, and we keep on trying,” Ginocchio said. “I don’t think our procedures, our rules and risk management are much different from any other fraternity. We’ve all had some bad cases and sad occurrences.”

There have been more than 60 fraternity-related deaths since 2005, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Earlier this month, a freshman pledging Pi Delta Psi at New York City’s Baruch College died after being repeatedly tackled in an initiation in the Pocono Mountains.
Reforms Blocked

Fraternities have blocked efforts by legislators and academic leaders to curb hazing, drinking and other misbehavior. Their political action committee, known as FratPAC, helped convince Frederica Wilson, a U.S. Representative from Florida, not to introduce an anti-hazing bill in Congress.

Their trade group, the Indianapolis-based North-American Interfraternity Conference, has opposed proposals at dozens of colleges to postpone rushing of freshmen, who account for about 40 percent of fraternity-related deaths.

Fraternity alumni, including major donors to universities, often oppose restrictions on Greek life. After the president and trustees of Trinity College in Hartford proposed making fraternities co-educational, Greek alumni withheld donations to the school. In May, Trinity president James Jones moved up his departure date by a year.

Influential Network

Sigma Alpha Epsilon has an influential alumni network and a colorful history. Founded in 1856 at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, SAE has its roots in the antebellum South. When the Civil War began, almost all its members fought for the Confederacy.

Its gothic-style headquarters in Evanston, Illinois features priceless Tiffany stained glass and a painting of U.S. President William McKinley -- an illustrious SAE alumnus, along with organized crime fighter Eliot Ness and novelist William Faulkner.

LinkedIn, a networking website for professionals, lists almost 3,000 SAE alumni in finance, more than any other industry. When Jeff Librot, a former head of the University of Delaware’s SAE chapter, applied for a Bank of Montreal equities internship, a banker there sent him an e-mail with SAE’s secret motto, “Phi Alpha.” Librot was selected.

Among SAE’s Wall Street luminaries are T. Boone Pickens, the Texas oilman-turned-investor, and hedge fund managers David Einhorn of Greenlight Capital and Paul Tudor Jones of Tudor Investment Corp. Einhorn and Jones declined to comment.

Campus Leaders

Pickens said members didn’t haze recruits when he belonged to the fraternity at Oklahoma State University in the late 1940s and early 1950s. His brothers -- many returning World War II veterans -- rarely drank, he said.

He joined SAE because it was “the best,” said Pickens, 85. “They were the leaders on campus.”

These days, SAE leads in other ways. Unlike other fraternities, it must report its infractions online, as a result of a legal settlement with the family of Carson Starkey. The 18-year-old freshman at California Polytechnic State University died in 2008 after downing beer, rum and 151-proof liquor at an initiation ritual. The Starkey family sued SAE and members for negligence and settled for at least $2.45 million, court records show.
‘Dangerous Traditions’

Excessive drinking “and other dangerous traditions, continue, year after year” due to “SAE’s flawed oversight and management of chapter and member activities,” the lawsuit said.

Members of fraternities typically pay for liability insurance to cover accidents and other mishaps. Because of SAE’s history, its members pay a base fee of $340, which can increase or decrease depending on each chapter’s record. That’s among the highest rates of any fraternity, according to Douglas Fierberg, the Washington attorney who sued SAE in the Starkey case, and current and former Greek officials.

By contrast, members of Oxford, Ohio-based Phi Delta Theta pay a base fee of $85 apiece, said Bob Biggs, its executive vice president. The reason: in 2000, alarmed about drinking, the fraternity banned alcohol in its chapter houses.

Since then, the fraternity has had no deaths related to alcohol or hazing and fewer accidents and insurance claims, even as membership surged to 11,500 from 8,000, Biggs said.

“We’ve been able to articulate a message to students,” Biggs said. “If you want a drinking club experience, go somewhere else.”

Alcohol Ban

SAE’s leaders took notice. Both in 2011 and this year, they considered banning alcohol from chapter houses, inviting a representative of Phi Delta Theta to make the case at one of its biennial conventions.

“If you look at some of those tragic incidents, it certainly might help” to ban alcohol at houses, said Ginocchio, the SAE general counsel who made the proposal. Though a majority supported the plan, it failed to receive the necessary two-thirds vote of students and alumni as opponents argued that it would drive drinking underground.

In its statement, the SAE national said it mandates alcohol-free housing for chapters that violate “stringent regulations” on drinking. SAE lists on its website 29 chapters that ban alcohol in chapter houses, some because of past violations and others because their campuses are dry. The fraternity said it provides anti-hazing training to members, sponsors a hotline and tests them on its rules.
‘Obscene Banner’

A public institution on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, Salisbury has 8,600 students. About 8 percent belong to fraternities or sororities. In 2005, the university cited the SAE chapter for hanging “an obscene banner” outside a house where several sorority sisters lived, according to university records.

In November 2010, two women complained that date rape drugs were slipped into their drinks at an SAE party, according to a campus police report. The university ultimately found insufficient evidence for those allegations but cited the chapter for alcohol violations.

Justin Stuart didn’t know about SAE’s disciplinary record when he arrived at Salisbury in 2011, he said.

He grew up in Potomac, Maryland, and attended Montgomery County’s highly rated public schools. His father, Henry “Hal” Stuart, is a real estate developer. In high school, Stuart worked as a lifeguard at a community pool and built houses for Habitat for Humanity. The 6 foot two-inch-tall teenager played on the varsity lacrosse and golf teams.
Team Player

“He was the ultimate team player,” said Colin Thomson, head lacrosse coach at Thomas S. Wootton High School in nearby Rockville. “Justin has a good head on his shoulders.”

Stuart envisioned a career in finance, and SAE’s prestige as a Wall Street pipeline attracted him. He rushed SAE in February 2012 and was summoned to a coveted interview at the Scarborough Student Leadership Center, the Greek life hub named after the SAE chapter founder. During a videotaped appearance, Stuart stood before fraternity brothers, who asked about his major, his grade-point-average and why he wanted to join.

“They made it seem like it was super exclusive and that only the brightest are invited,” Stuart said.

After getting his pledge invitation, Stuart visited the student affairs office to sign a university document. It noted that hazing violated school policy and is, under Maryland law, a misdemeanor, punishable by as much as six months in prison and a $500 fine. “Consent of a student is not a defense,” it said.
‘Pledge Educator’

Stuart took comfort in this policy, until his pledging began. About 4 p.m. on a Thursday in February, Stuart and about nine other pledges began their eight-week initiation. SAE doesn’t have an official chapter house, so brothers drove the recruits from the Scarborough Center to a brown, wood-shingled home on West Locust Street, about a mile from the university.

William Espinoza -- a senior, who, like Stuart, was a former high school lacrosse player from Montgomery County -- acted as “pledge educator.” He held out a baseball cap, asking pledges to deposit their mobile phones and wallets, Stuart said.

Espinoza led pledges to the basement, its windows covered with blankets and old clothes, according to Stuart. In an endless loop, punctuated by a few seconds of silence, a speaker blasted Du Hast, a German metal song by the group Rammstein, said Stuart and Max Kellner, another former recruit, a marketing major from the Baltimore suburbs. The song’s title is a pun on German words that can mean both “have” and “hate.”

“Get Ready,” Stuart recalled Espinoza saying. “This will be your favorite song by the end of the night.”

Shattered Bottles

At 9 p.m., brothers ran down the stairs to the basement and told pledges to put their backs against the wall, with their heads down, Stuart said. The older members screamed insults, according to Stuart.

“You’re a worthless piece of ****.” “I’ll make you suck a ****.” “You’re a good-for-nothing [homophobic slur],” Stuart quoted members saying in a written account that he said he also gave university officials.

Fraternity members shattered liquor bottles against the wall, Stuart told campus police, according to a police report. Members ripped shirts off pledges and told them they couldn’t eat, including a student on medication who required food at regular intervals, Stuart told police.

At one point, an upperclassman spat in the face of a pledge named Ryan Afifi, Stuart and Kellner said.

Kellner, then a junior, recalled being confined in the basement with Stuart and other pledges for eight or nine hours.
Secret Handshake

“They justified it -- that we all went through this when we pledged,” said Kellner, 23, now a senior at Towson University in Maryland. “It was rough. It was very, very anxious in the basement. You felt like you couldn’t leave.”

In the early morning, members led the pledges upstairs, one by one, blindfolded, to the house’s second floor, Kellner said. There, pledges kneeled before a table where Espinoza and Sam Kaubin, the chapter president, sat with six candles and a fraternity flag, according to Stuart. The recruits learned the secret SAE handshake, with interlocking pinkies.

Then they were handed a sheaf of documents, including a non-disclosure agreement, Stuart and Kellner said.

“Shut up and sign,” Stuart heard someone say, he told police.

Brothers removed Stuart’s blindfold and gave him his pledge name, “Drop,” which they chose because they considered him likely to quit. Others were dubbed Pootie, Slappy, Meat, Semen and Landfill, according to text messages among pledges that Stuart saved and later sent to Salisbury University.

Jungle Juice

Afterward, pledges were each ordered to chug a pitcher of beer, Stuart and Kellner said. Stuart was then taken to another house, where, urged on by SAE members, he downed seven or eight drinks and a liquor mix called “jungle juice,” he said.

“I had never been that drunk before,” said Stuart, who hadn’t eaten for 10 hours.

Every Tuesday evening, SAE held pledge classes in a science hall. Brothers covered a window with white paper, Stuart and Kellner said. As they tried to learn SAE history, members yelled insults at pledges, including gay slurs, Stuart told police.

Kellner soon withdrew from pledging because he was a commuter student and didn’t have time, he said.

Stuart considered leaving too but decided against it. Members assured him that they had all gone through the same crucible and the worst was over. He was about to enjoy the benefits of SAE membership, such as entrée to parties where freshmen could meet sorority women and access to Wall Street and Fortune 500 companies.
‘Worth Staying’

He worried that, if he left, he would end up shunned and alone. “You feel like you have so much to lose -- it’s worth staying,” he said. “I thought it would pay off in the end.”

On weekends, the pledges were on call to “sober drive” drunken brothers until as late as 4 a.m., Stuart said. After parties, the fraternity required pledges to clean members’ houses, according to Stuart and text messages. On the fifth or sixth week, Stuart and other pledges were ordered to stand in the trashcans filled with ice, he said.

As spring break approached, pledges texted each other, dreading what would come next. “They want to get us drunk to f**k us up,” Kevin Walbrecher, one of the pledges, texted on March 14. Walbrecher declined to comment.

The next day, the recruits again found themselves confined in a basement, this time for a ritual known as “family night,” in which they were divided into groups with names such as Thunderbird and Red Lady.

Scary Drive

Again, the German song blared in their ears, Stuart said. He was then led upstairs, blindfolded, and tossed into a car without a seatbelt, he said. Tires screeching, the driver sped around curves and made quick stops, he said.

“I thought I was going to die tonight,” he later told police.

Back at the house, Stuart recalled being asked to bend over. He heard clapping, thumping, and chanting; a member took a running start and hit him in the buttocks three times with a paddle as hard as he could, Stuart said.

“It sounded like a punch, like skin was cracking,” he said.

Stuart held back a scream, while his back seized up for 20 seconds, leaving him briefly unable to walk, he said. The paddling left bruises that made it hurt to sit down the next day, he said.

Members told pledges to dress in women’s clothing and makeup or diapers, Stuart said: He wore a skirt, leotard top and platinum blonde wig. Then, they were given four or five shots of a “secret drink,” made up of various liquors, and driven to an off-campus party, he said.

Forced Drinking

“If you don’t drink this, you’re out,” members told pledges at the party, handing them more liquor, according to Stuart. He figured he had 10 drinks, fewer than some others.

“Guys should have gone to the hospital,” Stuart said. “One guy was dry heaving for hours. One guy was vomiting blood. It was the most dangerous thing I’ve ever done.”

After the party, pledges commiserated in text messages.

“They fed me a pint of Jack and Jose,” Chris Durgin wrote. “Not to mention sake (saki) is the grossest drink I’ve ever drank but I’m going to try to get used to it.”

Durgin said he “got carried out and woke up with a burn on my forehead.” Durgin did not respond to requests for comment.

Walbrecher, the pledge who had earlier warned about drinking, was especially graphic: “I woke up in throw up and with a black eye and my knuckles were all bruised and I was limping.”

Punching Holes

Espinoza, the pledge educator, berated the younger students: “You raged at my house and some of you thought it was cool to punch holes in my wall and you will be patching those f***ers up.”

Espinoza, who graduated in 2012, referred questions to the fraternity’s chapter adviser, saying that “when I was there, none of this came up.”

Other members wouldn’t address the hazing allegations.

“Are you asking me that’s what happened?” Daryl Spencer, an SAE brother and former wide receiver on the Salisbury football team, said in an interview. “Maybe you should join a fraternity and find out. My memory is foggy.”

Dwight “Duke” Marshall, the volunteer alumni adviser for SAE’s Salisbury chapter, said members told him there was no hazing, and he believes them.

“It did not happen,” said Marshall, 47, who was chapter president as a Salisbury student and now runs an insurance agency. “The quality of guys that are in there -- they are outstanding young men.”

Silent Witness

After family night, Stuart decided to quit SAE and alert authorities. His desire to protect pledges from harm outweighed his fear of retaliation from fraternity members, he said.

On Friday, March 16, he sent an anonymous e-mail about hazing to the campus police’s “silent witness” website. The school tried unsuccessfully to find out who sent the report, documents show.

By then, Stuart’s grades had fallen from As to Cs, because of late nights at the fraternity. He said he often couldn’t sleep as he worried about his safety.

Other pledges were also anxious. Later that month, fellow SAE recruit Matthew Voigt texted that a buddy told him: “We will be in the basement tonight. Just prepare mentally.”

“Damn ... Let’s go guys at least they can’t kill us,” replied pledge Ryan Afifi.

“Or rape us,” said Clifford Lample, another aspiring member.

Voigt, Afifi and Lample didn’t return messages, declined to comment or referred questions to Marshall.

Dropping Out

For Stuart, leaving the brotherhood wasn’t easy. When he missed events, members called, texted and visited his room, according to a campus police report. His father, a 6 foot-1-inch, 260-pound former high school football player, drove to the school and told his son that “if they didn’t leave me alone, things were going to get real,” Stuart told police.

Stuart looked up news accounts about Cornell and other schools where students died because of hazing. In May, he sent another report to the “silent witness” website.

“I was hazed by the SAE (Sigma Alpha Epsilon) fraternity this past semester,” he wrote. “It was completely disgusting and you schools should step up your regulation of this.”

Though his e-mail was anonymous, the campus police tracked him down. At home for summer vacation, Stuart told his story by phone.

“I perceived him to be credible and truthful,” Salisbury University Police Lt. Brian Waller wrote in his report. In June, Waller referred the matter to the city police department, which has jurisdiction off-campus.

‘Magnifying Glass’

In an e-mail, urging the city police to take action, he wrote, “There have been a number of allegations involving this fraternity over the past few years, from hazing to date-rape drugging to harassing a neighbor because of his sexual orientation.

‘‘I fear that sooner or later there is going to be a major incident, and our past efforts will be under the magnifying glass.’’

The police investigation was brief. Two pledges denied that hazing took place, according to a city police report. Stuart’s mother, fearing retaliation by fraternity members, told police she wanted her son to drop the case. Stuart said he decided it would be futile to move forward.

When Stuart returned for his sophomore year, the university pressed forward with its own investigation. Stuart met with the Salisbury University disciplinary board, which includes faculty and student representatives.

13-Hour Hearings

Kellner, the recruit who corroborated Stuart’s account of abuse in the basement, said he appeared before the board too. In all, Salisbury held 13 hours of hearings over three days, said Dane Foust, the school’s vice president of student affairs.

Stuart had been promised confidentiality, but his name had leaked out, his father said. On Sept. 28, Hal Stuart wrote to Salisbury University President Janet Dudley-Eshbach, lamenting the toll the investigation was taking on his son.

‘‘He essentially has been blackballed from any social life, eats his meals alone and is miserable,” Hal Stuart said. “I commend his courage for even coming back this semester.”

The board determined in October that the evidence supported Stuart’s allegations. Among “relevant facts” it established were that pledges were “made to get into a bin of ice and required to recite organizational information,” and they were “kept in a basement on several occasions,” blindfolded, yelled at and “made to drink.”

Disney Channel

One board member told fraternity leaders at the hearing that their protests of innocence rang hollow.

“What you said sounds like Disney Channel, when what I’m thinking more like Quentin Tarantino,” the member said, according to Sigma Alpha Epsilon’s later appeal.

“Not all of your members are True Gentlemen,” another board member said, echoing the fraternity’s creed.

The SAE chapter appealed the findings, complaining that members weren’t allowed to have lawyers at the hearing. Citing the Tarantino and “True Gentlemen” comments, it contended that board members were biased.

“The fraternity was given a fair and impartial hearing,” Susan Griisser, the university’s general counsel, said in an interview.

In November 2012, the university denied the appeal and suspended SAE through the spring of 2014, removing its recognition as a student organization and barring it from campus. It will then be on probation for another year. A handful of students were also disciplined, Griisser said.
Behavior Pattern

“Our findings and subsequent sanctioning reflect the seriousness we view hazing and the danger it presents to our students,” the board said in its decision.

Susan Lipkins, a psychologist in Port Washington, New York, and author of a book on hazing, said the Salisbury episode reflects a behavior pattern. Older students often subject younger ones to the same hazing they experienced, and then ratchet it up a notch to leave their own mark.

The university’s punishment of SAE was “not enough,” though typical of college sanctions in hazing cases, she said.

“It’s a slap on the wrist and won’t teach much” to fraternity members, she said. The school “should have held everybody in the entire fraternity responsible.”

National SAE officials investigated and found no wrongdoing, said Marshall, the chapter adviser. The parent organization declined to discuss the case.
White Shirts

Marshall minimized the chapter’s infractions. He said Salisbury sanctioned it merely for requiring new members to learn the fraternity’s creed and for asking pledges to wear pins, khaki pants and white shirts. SAE was also held responsible for one episode of underage drinking that wasn’t at a fraternity event, he said.

“I could not belong to an organization that promoted hazing or bullying or whatever you want to call it,” Marshall said.

Marshall’s characterization of the university’s findings was “not accurate,” said Foust, the Salisbury vice president.

The chapter’s suspension infuriated one powerful Salisbury donor: Scarborough, the founder of the SAE chapter. A 1976 graduate, he recently sold Scarborough Capital Management, an Annapolis, Maryland-based investment firm. He gave $830,000 for Salisbury’s fraternity and sorority center, which opened in 2001 and bears his name.

In 2004, Scarborough agreed to return $2.1 million to customers and pay a $50,000 fine to settle U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission civil allegations that he overcharged for mutual funds. He said in an interview that he did nothing wrong and settled because he couldn’t afford to fight the charges.

Supreme Archon

From 2005 to 2007, Scarborough served as SAE’s top national official, or Eminent Supreme Archon. He sat on the board of the university’s foundation from 1998 to 2011.

A staunch advocate for his fraternity, Scarborough said the university had trampled members’ rights. He said he didn’t know what happened at the initiation, and hazing should be punished.

Still, he canceled a $2 million pledge for a stadium, he said.

“If they decide that’s the hill they want to die on, then let them,” Scarborough said. Other SAE alumni also stopped giving, he said.

Stuart and his father were angry, too. They demanded the school disclose its findings.

Moving On

This past January, Jen Palancia Shipp, then Salisbury’s general counsel, said she wanted to hear Stuart’s concerns. He declined, saying he was preparing to transfer to the University of Maryland at College Park and wanted to put the investigation behind him.

“I just want to not deal with this anymore,” Stuart told Shipp. “It’s done, ended, the fraternity members can continue to lock people in a basement. It doesn’t matter to me. I am just going to move on and work on my degree at UMD.”

Shipp said she understood.

“I certainly do not want any other student to endure the same thing as you,” she replied.

Two months later, Marshall, the SAE chapter adviser, was arrested for drunk driving, court records show. He had been out with friends and had several drinks, he said. Marshall pleaded guilty to driving while impaired and received probation. Under Maryland law, his plea wasn’t counted as a conviction.

Days after his arrest, Marshall told the chapter’s brothers about it and stressed the “importance of not drinking and driving,” he said.

‘Crippling Effect’

The SAE chapter is trying to rebound. On a recent weekday at his insurance office in Pocomoke City, 25 miles from Salisbury, Marshall displayed a box of pledge manuals, which he said national headquarters shipped to him to distribute.

“We’re still recognized by our national office as having a chapter in good standing,” he said.

The university’s sanctions, which bar the chapter from campus, have had “a crippling effect” on the fraternity, Marshall said. In December, SAE lost 10 of its 32 members at Salisbury’s midyear graduation. Still, brothers are holding meetings at off-campus apartments and trying to recruit, he said. Recruiting of any kind would violate the chapter’s suspension, according to Griisser, the general counsel.

SAE members don’t get enough credit for their community service, Marshall said. The fraternity’s volunteer and charitable work has included raking neighbors’ leaves, roadway cleanup and raising money to fight cancer.

“You mess up one time and everybody remembers that one time,” Marshall said.

Basement Nightmares

Stuart, now 21 and a junior, keeps to himself at the University of Maryland. He is living at home and commuting to campus, and doesn’t go out much on weekends. Still hoping for a financial career, he’s joined an investment club.

As he drives by Greek houses on his way to school, he ponders what colleges should do about fraternities. They must step up oversight, restrict alcohol, and hold fraternities and members accountable for misbehavior, he said.

Even now, he has trouble trusting other students, and has flashbacks to his experience as an SAE pledge.

“I have dreams of the basement sometimes,” he said. “I hear the yelling. It sounds like they’re about to attack me. Then I wake up from my nightmare.”

[I]To contact the reporters on this story: John Hechinger in Boston at [email protected]; David Glovin in New York at [email protected];

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Daniel Golden at [email protected]

wwiikkdd
03-01-2014, 02:00 AM
The 'elitist' farm system for tapping the best prospects. Yes, imagine what goes on that is not reported. Rape. Blackmail for life. Casting couches just like the big show. Wanna play? Your gonna pay. Psychopaths run the machine. Look at what happens to those who want to walk away or talk. Thrown from the freedom train is one term.

hunkahunka
10-01-2014, 02:31 PM
interesting in light of the following that the biggest news talk radio station in the capital of Canada , Ottawa is named CFRA.

video:

The Council On Foreign Relations (CFR) - Media Control & Financing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nkRmubmmkE


CFR, eh

http://anavex.com/images/CFRA_logo.png

The company which used to own 580 CFRA news talk radio in Ottawa was none other than the same
company which owned MuchMusic (Canada's version of MTV),
CHUM Broadcasting Ltd.
CTV purportedly first 'acquired' the masonic temple in 1998, owned MTV Canada and bought out MuchMusic (CHUM) in 2007.
But the same masonic temple has had dealings with the same occultist music milieu dating back decades.


So its looking like the masonic CFR is basically behind Sumner Redstone
and the whole media shift toward ghetto culture in North America.


http://static.flickr.com/55/135415987_a000cd1c4f.jpg

http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/d9nmmNxqAwJUJOU3dQ9nLA/l.jpg

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/mr510b41c0.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_Temple_%28Toronto%29

QUOTE

Masonic Temple (Toronto)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Masonic Temple is a six-storey building located at 888 Yonge Street, Toronto, Ontario, Canada (on the north-west corner of Davenport Road and Yonge Street).

Construction began November 2, 1916 when the contract was signed and approved by the Board of The Masonic Temple Company for the tearing down of an existing church and excavation. The Masonic ceremony of laying the cornerstone occurring November 17, 1917 and the first Lodge meeting taking place on New Year's Day, 1918.[2]

At its peak, the Masonic Temple was home to 38 different Masonic bodies: 27 Craft Lodges, six Chapters (York Rite), two Preceptories (Knights Templar), two Scottish Rite Bodies and Adoniram Council.[2]

In the years before its sale to CTV, the building housed live music clubs known as The Concert Hall, and earlier, in the late 1960s, The Rockpile, a sitting-on-the-floor style concert venue which featured not only showcases for top local talent, but appearances by major international recording stars, including Toronto's first Led Zeppelin concert on February 2, 1969, during the band's inaugural North American Tour.

Although the location remained historically significant and was added to the City of Toronto's Inventory of Heritage Properties in 1974, the building has changed hands a number of times. In 1997, it was threatened with demolition: a developer had planned a new highrise residential building marketed to Asians, solely to exploit its "lucky" address of 888 Yonge Street.;[3] but it was designated under the Ontario Heritage Act that same year.[3]

Also in the 1990s, the studio was the home of Open Mike with Mike Bullard, and was one of CTV Toronto's news bureaus. Also, notably, it has been rented as a rehearsal space by the Rolling Stones. From March 2006, the building became the broadcast home of the new MTV Canada and has hosted the Polaris Music Prize since 2009.

The building's fate was once again placed under a cloud on November 2, 2012 when Bell Media announced the moving of MTV Canada studio production to 299 Queen Street West and that the building would be sold, possibly for condominiums.[3] Bell Media officially listed the property for sale on March 4, 2013.[4] On June 17, 2013, the building was purchased by the Info-Tech Research Group.[1] Info-Tech announced that its plans for the building include staging an annual charity rock concert in the auditorium.[5]

hunkahunka
10-01-2014, 07:38 PM
Here's more for the weird old pile of information connecting
the Methodist Church to MTV/MuchMusic,the methodist Bush family,
and even the OTO (Ordo Templis Orientis). Presumably also connects
the CFRA (Bush Admin's VP Dick Cheney was at one point Chairman of
the CFR). Essentially the GW Bush era administration was run by George
Bush Senior, Dick Cheney & the CFR. In other words the Council on Foreign Relations [CFR])
has run the U.S. since they shot JFK in 1963.

Before CHUM was acquired by Bell Media/ CTV in 2007, it operated most of its
MuchMusic studio operations out of the heritage building 299 Queen Street West in Toronto.
The building was known as the Chum City Building:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/CityTV_Building.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/299queenstreetwesttoronto.JPG/800px-299queenstreetwesttoronto.JPG
MuchMusic Headquarters 299 Queen Street West
Former Chum City Building, now owned by CTV/Bell Media



MuchMusic's building (299 Queen Street West) , like the MTV Masonic Temple building
also has an interesting looking past:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/299_Queen_Street_West

299 Queen Street West

History and architecture

The five-storey building was originally constructed as the headquarters of the Methodist Church of Canada in 1913. The Methodists joined with two other denominations to form the United Church of Canada in 1925, for which the building served as the headquarters until 1959. By this time the Ryerson Press, originally the publishing arm of the Methodist Church, had grown to occupy the entire building. The building was purchased by CHUM in 1985, and was re-opened in May 1987 as the new headquarters for the company and its various outlets, including Citytv Toronto (which was previously located at 99 Queen St. East).

Ryerson Press, the original occupant of the building, was purchased by
McGraw Hill, and the Methodist Church of Canada became part of the amalgamated United Church of Canada.

Ryerson Press was a Canadian book publishing company, active from 1919 to 1970.[1] First established by the Methodist Book Room, a division of the Methodist Church of Canada,[2] and operated by the United Church Publishing House after the Methodist Church's merger into the United Church of Canada in 1925.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGraw_Hill_Financial#Connection_to_the_family_of_ George_W._Bush

The McGraws and the George W. Bush/George H.W. Bush family have close ties, going back generations. According to McGraw-Hill, Barbara Bush is a member of their advisory board.[27] Their California Test Bureau division has provided testing material integral to No Child Left Behind, a George W. Bush White House program.[28]
http://www.whale.to/c/dove.h16.jpg
http://www.whale.to/c/ixua5zv4oto.jpg
Luciferian church symbols O.T.O. crest (left) and The United Church of Canada crest (right)

ronisron
11-01-2014, 03:46 PM
A quick addendum to Vic Morrow, his daughter is of course actress Jennifer Jason Leigh, who has made some very strange films, icluding Single White Female, Flesh and Blood, a Paul Verhoeven medieval soft core with Rutger Hauer, Last Exit To Brooklyn, Miami Blues and Rush. I had no idea Morrow was Jewish, not that it matters, but he was, and so was her mother Barbara Turner. Obviously Jewish in Hollywood is no big shocker, just the cryptos that keep popping up.

And her father was in a snuff film directed by creepy John Landis and produced by Spielberg.

ronisron
11-01-2014, 03:52 PM
hunka, thanks for the info about the CHUM station, the Masonic temple, and the origins of 299 Queen West. And of course the connection to the Bush's. Folks really don't get these people and the power they have. Once you can wrap your head around the type of influence they have, you have to consider that they answer to someone else.....

It's like trying to conceptualize infinity.

And whoever posted Leonard Cohen in the experiments at McGill... wow, I may need a nap. On and on and on....... with miles to go.

pound
11-01-2014, 08:43 PM
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/000/10/000-1012154748-carlyle-Dr.-Dre.jpg

Speaking of the Bush dynasty and pop music. The Carlyle Group recently invested $500 million in Dr. Dre's Beats Electronics:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/beats-carlyle-investment-idUSL4N0HN2W020130927

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304526204579100711774280296

The backstory on Carlyle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqb7Wf_KCG8

ronisron
12-01-2014, 12:21 AM
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/000/10/000-1012154748-carlyle-Dr.-Dre.jpg

Speaking of the Bush dynasty and pop music. The Carlyle Group recently invested $500 million in Dr. Dre's Beats Electronics:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/beats-carlyle-investment-idUSL4N0HN2W020130927

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304526204579100711774280296

The backstory on Carlyle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqb7Wf_KCG8

Dr Dre, and his friends in the Carlyle Group.... Dre sure did get rewarded for his sacrifice. His was his own son. All for more money, more fame, and access to the poop eating parties. That's a hard lesson to be faced with on your deathbed.

bikerdruid
12-01-2014, 01:10 AM
and access to the poop eating parties.

you do appear to be a little SCAT -er-brained today.
what is with your fascination with poop-eating today?

ronisron
12-01-2014, 04:57 PM
you do appear to be a little SCAT -er-brained today.
what is with your fascination with poop-eating today?

I don't have a fascination with it, just thinking how these whackjobs in the entertainment business hold Crowley in such high regard, and there are several accounts of rituals involving eating scat. I wondered "Gee, is that Crowley inspired too?" Because Crowley offered such a fantastic description of it. That's all.

No, not going to provide any proof or links of my assertion about what happens in the entertainmnet business, you can look it up yourself. Lots of research and info out there for you.

meek
13-01-2014, 03:19 PM
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7655/30160322.png

Friday February 23, 1968 The Jimi Hendrix Experience headlined a concert at the Masonic Temple in Detroit Michigan

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/VLONK/f5efd79f-5ab6-417e-a359-adfee731e975_zps7a98cf33.jpg

MICHIGAN DAILY - ‘Detroit has ‘experience’’ by Bob Winshall:

“The much-heralded Jimi Hendrix Experience blew into Detroit Friday night, and the repercussions were more than you’d expect from a simple rock show. Preceded by three other rock groups, Jimi and his two sidemen (bass and drums) did not perform until 2 1/2 hours after the concert began. When the equipment for Jimi’s act was finally assembled on stage - 4 amps and 10 speakers for a guitar and a bass - the trio began the Experience. You were first struck by Jimi’s cool as he played, with a relaxed stance, loose arms, expressionless face. This was in sharp contrast to the fast, ear-splitting, mind-bending leads that he coaxed out of his guitar. He didn’t coax an equivalent response from the audience, however: he made little attempt to reach his audience except through his music, which would have been all right except that difficulty with the equipment caused a muddling of the voices and instruments. He never smiled once. It was hard to say if he was that way because he was so calm and relaxed or because he was cold and bored. Jimi’s music, for those of you who aren’t experienced, consists of a driving bass line with a heavily accented drum backup, sharp, highly-amplified guitar leads Jimi’s slow, unmelodic voice, and gross brutality. His fast songs have a frantic quality to them, accentuated by the complex mixture of the three loud instruments, which threatens to burst the listener’s head, whether he be straight or stoned. Slow songs like ‘Hey Joe’ are soft and dreamlike, encouraging you to nod your head and sway your body to the slow, but insistent beats. There was such inconsistency: even when he did what should have been a sensational and emotional act—a bump-and-grind with the guitar head protruding between his legs - he seemed coldly deliberate, as if to say, ‘Isn’t this the filth you want to see and scream at?’ It was an affront to the audience, very different from the frenzied humping of a performer like Howling Wolf. At the end of the performance, Jimi was supposed to have said, “I’m sorry everything went wrong - it was a bad night.’ If that was a bad night, I can’t wait to see a good one. Using techniques reminiscent of Buddy Guy, Jimi played the guitar with his teeth, with one hand and behind his back. About his guitar-playing, the L.A. Free Press once stated. ‘Hendrix doesn’t just play a guitar - he rapes it, abuses it, violates it, eats it and masturbates it.’ The rape and abuse were part of the finale as Jimi, poised like a matador for the moment of truth, charged and pierced an amp. It seemed that a cold anger was driving him to repeatedly smash the sound system. It was indeed a strange scene: the maker of the sounds was taking the instrument that produced the sounds and destroying the instrument which allowed us to hear the sounds. He alternately thrust the guitar like a lance and rubbed it against the amp. He then sat on the guitar and attempted to rip out the strings. By this time those on the main floor were on their feet. The most frightening thing was that the audience began clapping and cheering at the destruction, like a scene from the movie ‘Privilege,’ except that the cops were knocking around the audience instead of the performer.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8841/jimidetroitmasonictempl.jpg

ronisron
14-01-2014, 01:13 AM
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7655/30160322.png

Friday February 23, 1968 The Jimi Hendrix Experience headlined a concert at the Masonic Temple in Detroit Michigan

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/VLONK/f5efd79f-5ab6-417e-a359-adfee731e975_zps7a98cf33.jpg

MICHIGAN DAILY - ‘Detroit has ‘experience’’ by Bob Winshall:

“The much-heralded Jimi Hendrix Experience blew into Detroit Friday night, and the repercussions were more than you’d expect from a simple rock show. Preceded by three other rock groups, Jimi and his two sidemen (bass and drums) did not perform until 2 1/2 hours after the concert began. When the equipment for Jimi’s act was finally assembled on stage - 4 amps and 10 speakers for a guitar and a bass - the trio began the Experience. You were first struck by Jimi’s cool as he played, with a relaxed stance, loose arms, expressionless face. This was in sharp contrast to the fast, ear-splitting, mind-bending leads that he coaxed out of his guitar. He didn’t coax an equivalent response from the audience, however: he made little attempt to reach his audience except through his music, which would have been all right except that difficulty with the equipment caused a muddling of the voices and instruments. He never smiled once. It was hard to say if he was that way because he was so calm and relaxed or because he was cold and bored. Jimi’s music, for those of you who aren’t experienced, consists of a driving bass line with a heavily accented drum backup, sharp, highly-amplified guitar leads Jimi’s slow, unmelodic voice, and gross brutality. His fast songs have a frantic quality to them, accentuated by the complex mixture of the three loud instruments, which threatens to burst the listener’s head, whether he be straight or stoned. Slow songs like ‘Hey Joe’ are soft and dreamlike, encouraging you to nod your head and sway your body to the slow, but insistent beats. There was such inconsistency: even when he did what should have been a sensational and emotional act—a bump-and-grind with the guitar head protruding between his legs - he seemed coldly deliberate, as if to say, ‘Isn’t this the filth you want to see and scream at?’ It was an affront to the audience, very different from the frenzied humping of a performer like Howling Wolf. At the end of the performance, Jimi was supposed to have said, “I’m sorry everything went wrong - it was a bad night.’ If that was a bad night, I can’t wait to see a good one. Using techniques reminiscent of Buddy Guy, Jimi played the guitar with his teeth, with one hand and behind his back. About his guitar-playing, the L.A. Free Press once stated. ‘Hendrix doesn’t just play a guitar - he rapes it, abuses it, violates it, eats it and masturbates it.’ The rape and abuse were part of the finale as Jimi, poised like a matador for the moment of truth, charged and pierced an amp. It seemed that a cold anger was driving him to repeatedly smash the sound system. It was indeed a strange scene: the maker of the sounds was taking the instrument that produced the sounds and destroying the instrument which allowed us to hear the sounds. He alternately thrust the guitar like a lance and rubbed it against the amp. He then sat on the guitar and attempted to rip out the strings. By this time those on the main floor were on their feet. The most frightening thing was that the audience began clapping and cheering at the destruction, like a scene from the movie ‘Privilege,’ except that the cops were knocking around the audience instead of the performer.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8841/jimidetroitmasonictempl.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTnkMVx5jU

Hendrix believed he was possessed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j082opb4AZo

Weird interview with Clapton, comparing Jimi to Robert Johnson, and then crying in the end. Johnson also was a guitar innovator, he died under mysterious circumstances at 27, a woman was involved, and poisoned alcohol was what caused his death. Jimi, at 27 died from a mixture of wine and very strong sleeping pills -- how the wine got into his system is open for debate, but it looks like he was drinking while lying on his back and possibly sleeping. Not to mention both men were also rumored to be demon possessed/sold their soul.

I like Hendrix a lot. But his manager was intelligence, and is probably who had him killed, and his guitar effects were all customized by a man who was British Navy Intel. I think most of my musical heroes are involved in weirdness one way or the other, and I don't listen to most of them anymore. Jimi is tough to shake.... Intelligence ops and the devil stuff be damned. But I keep it in my mind.

ronisron
14-01-2014, 01:39 AM
Also, Jimi was from Seattle, like Kurt Cobain, who also died under shaky circumstances at 27.

hunkahunka
14-01-2014, 07:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTnkMVx5jU

Hendrix believed he was possessed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j082opb4AZo



Great post on Hendrix. It's funny to think that if that belief of Hendrix's that he was demon-possessed had made the press and then the rumor circuit, how a lot of the cynics would be saying it was some PR stunt ploy put out by his record promoters or whatever. But given what we know today of the occult,
its hard not to take Hendrix calling himself a 'voodoo child' a bit more seriously. Hendrix could very well have had an 'alter ego' which he called a video child or a spirit, which was really his alter personality or his dissociative state.

Jimi Hendrix's interest in spiritism produced not only the song "Voodoo Chile" but the following observation from one Kwasi Dzidzornu, a conga player who often played with Hendrix. Kwasi was from a village in Ghana, West Africa, where his father was a voodoo priest. "One of the first things (Kwasi) asked Jimi was where he got that voodoo rhythm from.... that many of the signature rhythms Jimi played on guitar were very often the same rhythms that (Kwasi's) father played in voodoo ceremonies. The way Jimi danced to the rhythms of his playing reminded him of the ceremonial dances to the rhythms his father played to Oxun, the god of thunder and lightening. The ceremony is called "Voodooshi". ('From the book: Scuse Me While I Kiss The Sky, David Henderson, p. 251) -

The key to this whole mystery could be Kwasi Dzidzornu, congo player from an African voodoo family, who worked with the Rolling Stones at the height of their immersion into the occult in 1968 before working with Hendrix in 1969.

Quote: Critic Ned Sublette has written that the addition of Kwasi Dzidzornu conga drumming on "Sympathy for the Devil" transformed the song from "a dirge, and a dull one at that . . . making it come alive

hunkahunka
14-01-2014, 08:01 PM
Catch the whiff of coverup from the following article on Gary Heidnik
and his church. Heidnik another 'fall guy' here?


Heidnik's 'Ministers Of God' church has 50 members, attorney says

By Michael E. Ruane, Philadelphia Inquirer staff writer


His was the final word in the church - short of divine intervention.

His duties were many, his powers wide: He could rule almost unconditionally, could maintain absolute "control and responsibility" over church funds, and he could veto "irrevocably" any change in church policy proposed by its members.

And he was the leader for life.

When Gary Michael Heidnik founded his United Church of the Ministers of God on Oct. 18, 1971, and became its bishop, he raised a monolithic structure in which almost all power ultimately rested in him.

And, despite the notoriety Heidnik has gained since his arrest, his attorney said yesterday that he believes the church still exists and has a congregation of about 50 members, some of whom may have met for a service on Sunday.

The information about Heidnik's church was revealed yesterday during and after a court hearing in City Hall at which Common Pleas Court Judge Samuel M. Lehrer continued a freeze on the estimated $550,000 in assets in the name of Heidnik's church.

During the hearing, a copy of the church's five-page typewritten constitution was filed with the court. It detailed the laws and dogma under which the church was run by Heidnik, who is accused of murdering two women and raping and torturing four others.

After the hearing, the lawyer defending Heidnik against the criminal charges, A. Charles Peruto Jr., provided some information about the current makeup of the church, which he said he had earlier assumed was made up only of Heidnik.

"The church group does exist," Peruto said. "I assumed that it didn't but after speaking with Heidnik, it certainly exists. He's not the only minister. He's not the only speaker. There's actually a list of people who attend these services."

He was asked how many were in the congregation. "To my surprise, we have about 50 people in it," he said.

Another lawyer appeared at the hearing, saying he was representing the church's interests on behalf of "the bishop."

Peruto said he believed there had been a church service on Sunday, but he was not certain exactly where.

"I knew that Gary was very concerned about the service on Sunday," Peruto said. "And I knew from parishioners calling me that they wanted to know if the church was disbanded or what the status was."

Heidnik started the church along with his brother, Terry, and three other people in a house he once owned in the 4700 block of Cedar Avenue in West Philadelphia. Heidnik had preyed on the mentally retarded in the past, and one of those he is charged with murdering - Sandra Lindsay - was mentally retarded.

The church constitution was filed in court along with business forms, letters and a deposition taken from an account executive at the investment firm of Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Inc., which holds about $540,000 in church assets. The existence of an additional $16,062 in church
funds in a Continental Bank account was disclosed yesterday in court.

Heidnik had sent a copy of the constitution to the investment firm when he opened his account there March 21, 1975.

In one letter, Heidnik identified himself to Merrill Lynch as "the church's duly elected bishop." A sign on the outside wall of his house at 3520 N. Marshall St., where he is accused of committing the crimes, read: ''The United Church of the Ministers of God."

The constitution, which is made up of 18 "articles," states that the office of bishop was to be held for life and the bishop was to keep full ''control and responsibility" over church funds.

Article Six states: "The duties of the bishop are many and his control extensive. . . . His is the final word on interpretation of the Bible or settling religious disputes, except for divine intervention. He will usually be able to act even without the consent or notification" of the five-person board of directors.

Articles 12 and 13 dealt briefly with dogma. The Bible was to be the guiding "inspiration." But Article 12 states: "The divinity of Jesus is questionable . . . hence his claim of Divine Origin is to be played down."

Article 16 described the two ways the church intended to operate.

First, with "the more conventional technique of a church building, with pews, organs, ministers etc."

Second, in "the much more ancient idea of small groups of individuals coming together in the home or elsewhere and praying."

Article 17 addressed amendments to the constitution, which could be made by a two-thirds majority of the church board, but which also could be vetoed ''irrevocably" by the bishop.

The constitution stated that no collections would be taken up at church services, that church officers would serve without pay, but that "money to support the church can be raised from . . . loans, stocks, bingo . . . business ventures or other endeavors."

According to Article 16, "Our sacred aim is to promote the worship and teachings of God."

The constitution concluded with Article 18: "If and when dissolution should ever become necessary," it said, the church assets should be equally divided between the Peace Corps and the Veterans Administration.

At the hearing yesterday, a lawyer, Charles M. Golden, appeared before the judge and identified himself as an attorney for the church. Saying he was ''retained by the bishop," he opposed moves by lawyers for Heidnik's alleged victims to appoint a conservator for the assets and seemed to disagree with Judge Lehrer's description of the church as "a fiction." The judge said that he was inclined to appoint a conservator but that he would make a final decision in a few days.

hunkahunka
15-01-2014, 01:29 AM
Note the similarity between the name of Gary Heidnik's 'United Church of the Ministers of God' and 'The United Churches of Christ'.


Jeffrey Dahmer's father Lionel Dahmer was a research chemist and fundamentalist 'Churches of Christ' member who helped write the following scientific refutation of evolution for Apologetics Press, which is run by Churches of Christ:


http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/hsc0305.pdf

Churches of Christ is an offshoot of the Baptist church, and still practices baptism conversions.

Jeffrey Dahmer himself is a member of the Churches of Christ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_members_of_the_Churches_of_Chris t

hunkahunka
15-01-2014, 05:54 PM
maurading devil baby

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3024885/theres-a-marauding-devil-baby-scaring-people-on-the-streets-of-new-york

ronisron
15-01-2014, 06:14 PM
Great post on Hendrix. It's funny to think that if that belief of Hendrix's that he was demon-possessed had made the press and then the rumor circuit, how a lot of the cynics would be saying it was some PR stunt ploy put out by his record promoters or whatever. But given what we know today of the occult,
its hard not to take Hendrix calling himself a 'voodoo child' a bit more seriously. Hendrix could very well have had an 'alter ego' which he called a video child or a spirit, which was really his alter personality or his dissociative state.

Jimi Hendrix's interest in spiritism produced not only the song "Voodoo Chile" but the following observation from one Kwasi Dzidzornu, a conga player who often played with Hendrix. Kwasi was from a village in Ghana, West Africa, where his father was a voodoo priest. "One of the first things (Kwasi) asked Jimi was where he got that voodoo rhythm from.... that many of the signature rhythms Jimi played on guitar were very often the same rhythms that (Kwasi's) father played in voodoo ceremonies. The way Jimi danced to the rhythms of his playing reminded him of the ceremonial dances to the rhythms his father played to Oxun, the god of thunder and lightening. The ceremony is called "Voodooshi". ('From the book: Scuse Me While I Kiss The Sky, David Henderson, p. 251) -

The key to this whole mystery could be Kwasi Dzidzornu, congo player from an African voodoo family, who worked with the Rolling Stones at the height of their immersion into the occult in 1968 before working with Hendrix in 1969.

Quote: Critic Ned Sublette has written that the addition of Kwasi Dzidzornu conga drumming on "Sympathy for the Devil" transformed the song from "a dirge, and a dull one at that . . . making it come alive

Dzidzornu also goes by Rocky Dijon, or Rocky Dzidzornu. He was called Dijon by Keith Richards who couldn't pronounce his last name, and that's how it stuck. He has a few different musical aliases. He played with a lot of people, I think most notably with the Stones, on Sympathy and a few others on Beggars Banquet, and also on "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'" off of Sticky Fingers. He did record in the studio with Jimi on some things that were recently released on a collection called "Valleys of Neptune".

Jimi did say his guitar playing really improved after his time in Nashville. He said he was blown away, because everyone there seemed to play guitar really well. Nashville is not so far from the "crossroads" where Robert Johnson allegedly let the "Man In Black" (not Johnny Cash) tune his instrument for him. Perhaps Jimi followed the same path -- his life does mirror Johnson's in some ways, and in the video I posted above, Eric Clapton compares the two, and holds them in the same regard.

Cobain and Hendrix, both from Seattle, both left handed guitarists, both dead suspiciously at 27.

pound
15-01-2014, 10:22 PM
Here's a couple of interesting videos from R. Gary Patterson (Author of "Take a Walk on the Dark Side") discussing the mysterious lives of Paganini and Robert Johnson. Patterson also discusses the concept of the Faustian deal and the cross roads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLGJF-mL5HY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtO7QtVZBdA

ronisron
16-01-2014, 01:21 AM
Here's a couple of interesting videos from R. Gary Patterson (Author of "Take a Walk on the Dark Side") discussing the mysterious lives of Paganini and Robert Johnson. Patterson also discusses the concept of the Faustian deal and the cross roads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLGJF-mL5HY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtO7QtVZBdA

Thank you! I haven't thought about Paganini in a long time. Another case. His hands were very strange in their ligament and bone structure. Besides being thought to be possessed, legend has him playing his violin very hard, and as he broke srings, he was able to keep playing until they all broke, he was able to just make do with one string, playing very complicated passages. A cast of his right hand;

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0avngbs9IQE/S1wW8MMDr7I/AAAAAAAAANQ/dqW6_6SmRqg/s400/Cast%2Bof%2BPaganini%E2%80%99s%2Bright%2Bhand..jpg

Thanks for the links.

hunkahunka
16-01-2014, 07:02 PM
Note the similarity between the name of Gary Heidnik's 'United Church of the Ministers of God' and 'The United Churches of Christ'.


Jeffrey Dahmer's father Lionel Dahmer was a research chemist and fundamentalist 'Churches of Christ' member who helped write the following scientific refutation of evolution for Apologetics Press, which is run by Churches of Christ:


http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/hsc0305.pdf

Churches of Christ is an offshoot of the Baptist church, and still practices baptism conversions.

Jeffrey Dahmer himself is a member of the Churches of Christ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_members_of_the_Churches_of_Chris t

Jeffrey Dahmer had already committed his first murder when he was hired to work at a blood bank:

QUOTE:

In early 1982, Jeffrey Dahmer found employment as a phlebotomist at the Milwaukee Blood Plasma Center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlebotomy

http://prints.encore-editions.com/0/500/help-your-red-cross-inasmuch-as-ye-have-done-it-unto-one-of-the-least-of-these-hubert-chapin-latham-litho-printing-co-brooklyn-n-y.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uozsz79ONh0/TK1rFZP-uKI/AAAAAAAAANc/azEVVYShjck/s1600/blood%2Bministry.jpg

hunkahunka
17-01-2014, 02:26 AM
BE AWARE. TRIGGERY.

Quote:
The Moonchild rituals are the rituals to demonize a fetus. However, the demons that are invoked are not the small ones, but very powerful ones. In working with victims of this programming, it is clear that high level demons were placed within these people at very early ages. It is believed many of them were demonized before they were born by rituals like the Moonchild rituals. Blood sacrifices and human sacrifices are always required for this level of magic. Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) was a Satanist who was a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason. He also was a leader in a number of other Masonic rites as well as an OTO leader, a chief in Stella Matutina, and a MI-6 (Br. overseas intelligence) agent. His writings have been important within 20th century Satanism and with black magicians. He wrote Moonchild, first published in 1917.

The idea of the Moonchild is that by use of black magic, a perfect soul can be captured. The belief in reincarnation, which is prevalent among the Illuminati and Satanic groups, lends itself to the belief that souls compete for a particular embryo. On page 107- 108 of Moonchild, the idea is expressed,

“To produce a man who should not be bound up in his heredity, and should have the environment which they desired for him.”

This perfect soul in a proper person is called Homunculus. The magical work upon which this is based is said to be derived from Francis Bacon, Albertus Magnus, and Paracelsus who were all reported in occult circles to have captured souls and placed them into brass statues. The Hittites, the people of Asia Minor and Syria have long sought the ability to create a superman and a superwoman. The Illuminati’s inside occult history places the Hittites in their ancestry. In 1917, long before Superman appeared in comics and movies, Aleister Crowley was writing about a superman. The magical idea is to capture a soul from the 4th dimension. In the book Moonchild, the villa used to produce a Moonchild was called “The Butter-fly-Net”. The Monarch Project (which is named after the Monarch butterfly) is also an allusion to the Moonchild project where Butterflies are an allusion to souls (what Christians call demonic spirits).

The actual rituals carried out to create a Moonchild are described in detail in three of Crowley’s writings. A vague description of the rituals can be seen by reading the book Moonchild. The ritual took place at a villa nicknamed The Butterfly Net. The villa was really an occult temple laid out in sacred geometrics. It had figures of satyrs, fauns, and nymphs. It had statues of Artemis. Lots of silver objects and crescents and 9-pointed stars were at the villa, because these objects all relate to the Moon in magic. The woman who was pregnant was surrounded by objects related to the moon. The moon’s influence was repeatedly invoked. A small triangular silver altar to Artemis was used. There was a sacred spring where the woman was washed. The number 9 (which is sacred to the moon) was used along with its square of 81. Prayers were made to Artemis, and there was the reenactment of the capture of Diana by Pan. The woman was coached to identify herself with what is known as Grandmother Moon (in the book, she simply is called the Moon or Diana) by identifying her thoughts and actions with the deities one is wanting to invoke.

The creation of the Moonchildren within the Monarch Project involves high level magic by the circle of Illuminati black magicians who are involved with a particular individual’s programming. It should be noted that Grande Master and Grande Dame alters will understand demonology, but the sections (levels) of alter above them, are not informed. One of the biggest secrets kept from most of the slave’s alters is that their system was demonized while a fetus. First, this would give religious front alters the information they need to get them on the right track towards healing, and it could also adversely affect the programming lies of some of the front alters who don’t realize how premeditated all the trauma and torture is. The front alters of victims remember the cover story that the moon children were produced via torture in cages as little children. The Illuminati have also planned that every one of the Ten Commandments of God will be violated in their favor with the child. They prefer the child to be born out of wedlock so that it is a bastard. This breaks God’s commandment on adultery, and also gives them more leverage to destroy the child’s self-esteem. This entire plan involves generational curses which are spoken and unspoken. During Illuminati ceremonies, Ceremonial Pacts (which concern having the child out of wedlock to mock God) are made. While the Illuminati destroy any Godly spiritual foundation, they are creating a solid, rock hard foundation of “love” (adoration or idolatry) within the newborn upon which they will build the programming.


brown.

can't help but think of this:

http://creepycincinnati.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/thrive_gamblelogo.jpg
Procter & Gamble moon logo

Note that in the previous maps Proctor & Gamble was right across the street
from the huge Phinizy Rd. mental hospital/prison complex in Augusta.
See it again here:

http://goo.gl/maps/Z1qtO (A marks the huge Department of Juvenile Justice Developmental Detention Center/prison farm in Augusta, GA, and B marks the Serenity Behavioral Health Systems mental ward/detox center hospital, C marks the the huge East Central Regional Psychiatric Hospital complex, and just to its South, D marks the huge
Charles B. Webster Detention Center at 1941 Phinizy Rd. E marks the enormous Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street)

That entire square region is one huge jail facility comprising various youth prisons, a prison farm, the East Central Psychiatric asylum, the Serenity Behavioral Health mental hospital/detox, and the Charles B. Webster Detention Center prison. The Procter & Gamble plant is right beside it, just East of this giant prison complex. Why the Proctor & Gamble plant is right beside this weird complex is anyone's guess. I suspect they may be using the effluent from the complex to engineer many of the P&G products
right beside it. I speculated before that this whole prison complex may go deep into the ground and actually be the top of a vast interconnected underground complex. In that case, then the Proctor & Gamble plant right across the street could be part of that.
thunkerdrone is online now Add to thunkerdrone's Reputation Reply With Quote

hunkahunka
17-01-2014, 04:46 AM
If you look into the founders and leaders and clergy and even membership of the Methodist Church, you find that a huge proportion
of them are Scottish Rite freemasons, lodge members , etc.
Do a simple google search on the two terms together:

Scottish Rite , Methodist:
https://www.google.com/#q=scottish+r...odist&safe=off (https://www.google.com/#q=scottish+rite+methodist&safe=off)
There you find a huge 720,000 hit search result, comprising a huge list of people and buildings and organizations with high-level joint affiliations
with both organizations (both Scottish Rite and Methodist Church) It would be no exaggeration to say that the Methodist/Episcopalian Church is an outgrowth of Scottish Rite freemasonry.

Now read this:

Dear Abby: Can you find out if Procter & Gamble Co. has any connection with Satan and witchcraft, because if it has, I am not buying any more of its products.

Concerned in Dry Fork, VA.

Dear Concerned: Letters such as the one you received have been circulating through the United States for many years, and there is not a shred of truth in the rumor that P&G is connected with Satan, witchcraft or the devil! (I`ve said this in my column.)

Some of the nation`s most respected Christian religious leaders have issued public statements in an effort to put an end to this vicious campaign. They include the Rev. Jimmy Draper, president of the Southern Baptist Convention; the Rev. Donald E. Wildmon, Methodist minister and executive of the National Federation for Decency; Bishop Emerson Colaw, United Methodist Church; and the Rev. William C. Black, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Southern Ohio.

James Gamble and William Procter were both from Southern Ohio.

The founder of Procter & Gamble , James Gamble, was a Methodist.
Procter & Gamble experienced its largest initial growth as an army war contractor.
http://www.nndb.com/people/815/000169308/

His co-founder, William Procter, was Episcopalian.
http://www.nndb.com/people/937/000172421/ (http://www.nndb.com/people/937/000172421/)

The Southern Baptist Convention was created in 1845, by Baptist Convention members at a regional convention held in Augusta, Georgia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souther...ist_Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention)

ronisron
17-01-2014, 03:27 PM
If you look into the founders and leaders and clergy and even membership of the Methodist Church, you find that a huge proportion
of them are Scottish Rite freemasons, lodge members , etc.
Do a simple google search on the two terms together:

Scottish Rite , Methodist:
https://www.google.com/#q=scottish+r...odist&safe=off (https://www.google.com/#q=scottish+rite+methodist&safe=off)
There you find a huge 720,000 hit search result, comprising a huge list of people and buildings and organizations with high-level joint affiliations
with both organizations (both Scottish Rite and Methodist Church) It would be no exaggeration to say that the Methodist/Episcopalian Church is an outgrowth of Scottish Rite freemasonry.

Now read this:



James Gamble and William Procter were both from Southern Ohio.

The founder of Procter & Gamble , James Gamble, was a Methodist.
Procter & Gamble experienced its largest initial growth as an army war contractor.
http://www.nndb.com/people/815/000169308/

His co-founder, William Procter, was Episcopalian.
http://www.nndb.com/people/937/000172421/ (http://www.nndb.com/people/937/000172421/)

The Southern Baptist Convention was created in 1845, by Baptist Convention members at a regional convention held in Augusta, Georgia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souther...ist_Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention)

Not to sidetrack, but in a book I read called Moonwebs, Sun Hyung Moon (leader of his own mind controlled cult) is shown to be a large "shareholder" in companies like P&G, Lever 2000, Amway and a few other corporations who specialize in selling the essentials, like toilet paper, soap/shampoo, toothpaste, tampons, personal accessories. P&G has a plant in the town where I live, I know lots of people who work/have worked there and they call it "the cult of P&G" , they have a little morning ritual, they have a song they sing, all must partake. The shifts are 12 hours, and they alternate week to week evenings and days, so when you are there, you are there for most of your day. 7 shifts in a 2 week period.

The book is fantastic BTW, even if you weren't interested in Moon, it shows how he became an expert in brainwashing in the Korean Army, and the techniques they use to break the will of the Moonies.

(Great job as always hunka, I wondered where you were going with the Church of Christ info)

greydove
17-01-2014, 07:41 PM
Does anyone know if there is a connection between children who were treated for polio in the 1950's and MK Ultra? For example, I'm looking for a connection between the major hospitals that treated children for this disease and whether the hospital had been linked to MK Ultra experiments? I know I've seen this connection mentioned before, but couldn't find anything on a quick search.

I wondered this because of a feeling I got about Neil Young and Joni Mitchell who both apparently were struck by the illness at a young age and were both Canadian with parents prominent in their communities. Some of their lyrics are very significant, and they were friends later in life; I wonder if they were projects. I just wonder what else Polio treatments/vaccines could have been a cover for.

hunkahunka
17-01-2014, 10:21 PM
Not to sidetrack, but in a book I read called Moonwebs, Sun Hyung Moon (leader of his own mind controlled cult) is shown to be a large "shareholder" in companies like P&G, Lever 2000, Amway and a few other corporations who specialize in selling the essentials, like toilet paper, soap/shampoo, toothpaste, tampons, personal accessories. P&G has a plant in the town where I live, I know lots of people who work/have worked there and they call it "the cult of P&G" , they have a little morning ritual, they have a song they sing, all must partake. The shifts are 12 hours, and they alternate week to week evenings and days, so when you are there, you are there for most of your day. 7 shifts in a 2 week period.

The book is fantastic BTW, even if you weren't interested in Moon, it shows how he became an expert in brainwashing in the Korean Army, and the techniques they use to break the will of the Moonies.

(Great job as always hunka, I wondered where you were going with the Church of Christ info)

that book would make an interesting read. My suspicion is that almost every single existing religion and cult are dualistic , with tie-ins to spying, manipulation of public opinion, military-industrial tribalism/war drums, the occult and mkultra in virtually every one of them , including the Catholic church. On the surface every single one of them display a friendly, charitable, humanistic face.

This eerie thread on a forgotten psychiatric hospital for addicts, right near the Proctor & Gamble / Phinizy Road prison complex in Augusta , mentions a sadistic mental ward, tuberculosis sanitarium, a satanic ritual,
how the place burned to the ground with virtually no trace of the history of the hospital left, no record of the fire etc.

Tidewater, The Hospital that no one seems to want to talk about:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/augusta-area/1363884-tidewater-hospital-no-one-seems-want.html#ixzz2qDJbUVZZ

Some relentless online searching turned up links to the nearby 'Serenity Behavioral Health Systems' hospital.(part of the prison complex beside Procter & Gamble in Augusta)


It appears likely that 1950's-era Tidewater Hospital (just off Peach Orchard Road in Augusta) was the forerunner to 'Serenity Behavioral Health Systems' hospital. ('addictions' treatment)
CHARTER MEDICAL CORPORATION is a corporation which owns all sorts of similar hospitals across the south, including Serenity Behavioral Health Systems hospital and another similar facility in Norfolk, Virginia (Virginia Beach) by the name of Tidewater Behavioral Health Systems which is headquartered at Peach Tree Road in Atlanta, Georgia.

http://ir.magellanhealth.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=19411-95-2

A five minute drive from Tidewater Behavioral Health Systems in Virginia Beach is an orphanage/foster care
facility at the Tidewater Regional Center, 815 Baker Rd in Virginia Beach.
run by United Methodist Family Services of Virginia:
http://www.umfs.org/

hunkahunka
17-01-2014, 11:54 PM
Does anyone know if there is a connection between children who were treated for polio in the 1950's and MK Ultra? For example, I'm looking for a connection between the major hospitals that treated children for this disease and whether the hospital had been linked to MK Ultra experiments? I know I've seen this connection mentioned before, but couldn't find anything on a quick search.

I wondered this because of a feeling I got about Neil Young and Joni Mitchell who both apparently were struck by the illness at a young age and were both Canadian with parents prominent in their communities. Some of their lyrics are very significant, and they were friends later in life; I wonder if they were projects. I just wonder what else Polio treatments/vaccines could have been a cover for.

noted



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LU-r1O9xYc

hunkahunka
17-01-2014, 11:56 PM
Video:

Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon (Nigel Finch, 1991)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwKWbKB2wW8

Nigel Finch's 1991 documentary covering many of the stories from Kenneth Anger's sordid Hollywood gossip book of the same name.

an interesting artifact on early Los Angeles myth, glamour, and tragedy - regardless of relative veracity of the stories

hunkahunka
19-01-2014, 02:19 PM
video:

Shocking Blood Ritual

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO86jy2e4uc

Actual Investigation footage of hidden Satanic element exposed in murder and rituals of human sacrifice.


This is strange because there is no mention of this case included, such as who was charged and convicted
etc. Another whitewash and coverup?

kung boa
20-01-2014, 02:55 AM
hunka have you considered that in recent times many famous people, actors, actresses, sportsmen and women coming out is because they cant't under some circumstances find a good matching hetero handler for them?

I was always wondering why some people would be with much older persons.
And some just goes round and round from person to person.
Like for example ashton kutcher was with Demi moore. I mean shes much older and what could they have in common?

But as this thread has shown me it's because they are handlers.

hunkahunka
20-01-2014, 05:13 PM
hunka have you considered that in recent times many famous people, actors, actresses, sportsmen and women coming out is because they cant't under some circumstances find a good matching hetero handler for them?

I was always wondering why some people would be with much older persons.
And some just goes round and round from person to person.
Like for example ashton kutcher was with Demi moore. I mean shes much older and what could they have in common?

But as this thread has shown me it's because they are handlers.

Good point, you are probably right. But these celebrity exposes on gays in the media may also serve the dual purpose of 'endorsements' of the militant homosexual agenda. Oprah Winfrey was outed as a lesbian , and that was followed by the revelation that Anderson Cooper is gay.
It has long been known that Rosie O'Donnell is gay. Ellen Degeneres is a gay lesbian, then comes the slew of announcements that "Good Morning America" anchor Robin Roberts is gay lesbian,"Today" weekend anchor Jenna Wolfe is a gay lesbian....
it goes on and on....... How many of these women are naturally gay or just wrapped up so tightly into the rad feminist subculture
that no man will go within a mile of them anymore is anyones guess.

The American media is being exposed as a fake psy-op run by the gay NSA/CIA subculture. Your point that a lot of these people are probably compromised or mk projects (imo , also wrapped up in blackops and SRA/occult activities) hits the mark.

In the movie Naked Lunch you hear homosexual CIA agent/author William Burroughs opine that homosexuals
make the ideal intelligence agent

see this interesting video on William Burroughs:

https://vimeo.com/84472590

bikerdruid
20-01-2014, 05:55 PM
Neil Young and Joni Mitchell who both apparently were struck by [polio]at a young age

source?

wwiikkdd
21-01-2014, 05:24 AM
Good point, you are probably right. But these celebrity exposes on gays in the media may also serve the dual purpose of 'endorsements' of the militant homosexual agenda. Oprah Winfrey was outed as a lesbian , and that was followed by the revelation that Anderson Cooper is gay.
It has long been known that Rosie O'Donnell is gay. Ellen Degeneres is a gay lesbian, then comes the slew of announcements that "Good Morning America" anchor Robin Roberts is gay lesbian,"Today" weekend anchor Jenna Wolfe is a gay lesbian....
it goes on and on....... How many of these women are naturally gay or just wrapped up so tightly into the rad feminist subculture
that no man will go within a mile of them anymore is anyones guess.

The American media is being exposed as a fake psy-op run by the gay NSA/CIA subculture. Your point that a lot of these people are probably compromised or mk projects (imo , also wrapped up in blackops and SRA/occult activities) hits the mark.

In the movie Naked Lunch you hear homosexual CIA agent/author William Burroughs opine that homosexuals
make the ideal intelligence agent

see this interesting video on William Burroughs:

https://vimeo.com/84472590

Yes many of the mentioned where traumatized/abused as children. The mind splitting-alters resulting makes for a ideal slave. Compromising and blackmail are hand-in-hand.

kung boa
21-01-2014, 09:35 AM
What I was getting at that they hit as many flies as they can with one stone.

I'm a fan of David Cronenberg's movies and naked lunch is a good one and an even better one when watched high.

If Burroughs hadn't been some kind of asset to them then he would have gone to jail for killing his wife.

bikerdruid
21-01-2014, 05:41 PM
Oprah Winfrey was outed as a lesbian , Anderson Cooper is gay.
Rosie O'Donnell is gay.
Ellen Degeneres is a gay lesbian
Robin Roberts is gay lesbian.
Jenna Wolfe is a gay lesbian....


Yes many of the mentioned where traumatized/abused as children.

evidence?
ah .. right .. you don't do evidence, do you.
you just keep flapping, but you never show any proof.
do you expect to be taken seriously?

really ... HABEUS CORPUS!!

greydove
21-01-2014, 08:36 PM
source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell

"At the age of 8, Joni contracted polio during a 1951 epidemic in Canada, the same one in which singer Neil Young, then aged 5 and living in Ontario, also contracted the virus.[14] It was the last major epidemic in North America before Jonas Salk's polio vaccine was successfully tested. Bedridden for weeks in hospital, Joni became aware that she would have to move across the hall and live in an iron lung for the remainder of her life if her condition worsened. As she later described, it was during her time in hospital that winter that she first became interested in singing. She told the story later:"


Also mentioned in almost every bio about them.

scottishryan
23-01-2014, 09:24 AM
The topic under discussion is Cobain murdered by CIA

You want to discuss Gay Agendas? Please make a new topic and debate with in it, at your leisure.

Thanks Folks! :)

hunkahunka
25-01-2014, 12:19 PM
What did they have on Cobain which was making him so miserable near the end of his life? I don't doubt for a minute that the Bohemian Club boys and their CIA operatives had Cobain under digital surveillance in his own home.
Consider this for a moment too: thirty years ago the NSA/CIA had spy satellites capable of Google Earth type activity, and combined with mobile cameras
or portable devices probably could see into almost any window. Just imagine how advanced their digital tech was too. They probably had digital video
surveillance capabilities in the eighties/nineties. Why allow the public to use the most advanced technology, when back then digital video storage etc. would have had militarily advantageous capabilities kept for the use of only the highest on the intelligence food chain.

Setting up Cobain in delicate situations and making sure the cameras inside were rolling would have been easy with the help of some of those closest to Cobain.

The following story reminds me of a blackmail situation or more likely a frame up job and assassination. Here we have a top Capitol hill aid , the chief of staff to U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander , stupid enough, as of 2014, to be arrested for possession of child porn? He was working on Capitol Hill, in Maryland, and seriously folks, he's going to be stupid enough to do kiddie porn? This is a man who would have to have top level security clearances, background checks, and be squeaky clean. As hard as some might find it to believe , he would also have to be smart, at least to some degree, to rise to that level. Sorry, I'm not buying the official story .

Then he commits suicide , or is suicided, which silences him forever on whatever he likely got in trouble for blabbing about in the first place?

The following article describes Loskarn as “one of the Senate GOP’s top strategists and aides.”

We are supposed to believe he'd be stupid enough to download child porn for wanking aid material?
WTF? Or was he moving up because he was compromised and was actually into this stuff?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140124/NEWS/301240097/Former-Alexander-aide-Ryan-Loskarn-commits-suicide-

Former Alexander aide Ryan Loskarn commits suicide



Ryan Loskarn, the chief of staff to U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander who was charged with possessing and distibuting child pornography last month, was found dead in his home in Maryland of an apparent suicide, law enforcement officials said Friday.

“At approximately 12 p.m. yesterday, Carroll County Sheriff’s Deputies responded to a private residence in the 6900 block of Kenmar Lane for a report of an unconscious male, believed to be deceased,” the sheriff’s office reported Friday morning. “Family members reported finding 35-year old Jesse Ryan Loskarn unresponsive in his basement where he’d been residing with family since this past December.

“The preliminary investigation indicates that Loskarn may have taken his own life, and his body has since been transported to the State Medical Examiner’s Office for Autopsy.”

The Maryland state Medical Examiner said later Friday that Loskarn’s death by hanging, initially reported by Politico, had been ruled a suicide.

Loskarn’s parents, Chuck and Gay Loskarn, issued the following statement Friday: “We loved our son very much, and we’re devastated by his death. Please respect our privacy at this difficult time and let us grieve in peace. Pray for him, his family and friends.”

Loskarn, 35, was arrested last month by federal agents on charges that he possessed and intended to distribute child pornography. The arrest came as agents executed a raid on his Washington residence. Alexander fired him the same day.

“For everyone involved, this is a sad and tragic story from beginning to end,” Alexander said in a statement Friday morning.

Federal prosecutors had delayed an indictment of Loskarn, hinting at a possible plea agreement. Court records show that Loskarn’s lawyers and prosecutors agreed on Dec. 18 to extend the time for filing an indictment in the case to Feb. 10.

Loskarn had been released to the custody of his parents in Sykesville, Md., where he was ordered not to use the Internet and to wear an ankle bracelet.

In an unusual ruling issued in the case late last year, U.S. Magistrate John M. Facciola defended his decision to release Loskarn to his parents, citing measures taken to ensure that he would not have access to the Internet.

“I have prohibited the defendant’s use of the Internet,” he wrote in the two-page ruling. “I concluded, therefore, that the risk of his resuming the downloading of child pornography is not great.”

The memorandum did not, however, mention the risk of suicide.

Loskarn made a rapid rise through the staff ranks in Congress and Roll Call, a Capitol Hill newspaper, called him “one of the Senate GOP’s top strategists and aides.” The newspaper also had included him on its list of “Fabulous 50 Movers and Shakers.”

He started in 2000 in the office of Rep. Wally Herger, R-Calif., before joining the House Rules Committee in 2001. In 2003 he became communications director for Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Brentwood, a position he held until 2007.

His next move was to become communications director for the Senate Republican Conference, then headed by Alexander. The conference was charged with promoting GOP policy ideas and legislation. Alexander stepped down as chairman of the conference in late 2011 and named Loskarn as his chief of staff in his personal office. He earned about $169,000 a year in that job, according to congressional records maintained by the LegiStorm website.

Born near Baltimore, Loskarn was an honors graduate of Tulane University, earning a bachelor’s degree in history and political science in 2000.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OF the two possibilities, either that he was framed or that he was involved with some weird intelligence ops/pedo subculture linked to
mk ultra etc., I have to go with both. Lets say he may have been involved with the occult, occult sexual pornography, black ops etc.,
but .. come on , would he be dumb enough to openly download and share such files on his own personal computer? He was a rich man, too.
He could have bought stuff on the black market. Downloading is a poor mans game.
So maybe he was involved in something, but any way that I look at this, he had to have been framed. All the corrupt authorities would have to do is hack his computer surreptitiously and place some damning porn onto it, then send in the police to arrest him.

hunkahunka
25-01-2014, 01:19 PM
What I was getting at that they hit as many flies as they can with one stone.

I'm a fan of David Cronenberg's movies and naked lunch is a good one and an even better one when watched high.

If Burroughs hadn't been some kind of asset to them then he would have gone to jail for killing his wife.

You have to wonder why William Burroughs felt that homosexuals made the ideal intelligence operatives. Its almost the opposite of what others say, in that some say that the Mormons are heavily involved as CIA employees due to their sober habits and propensity for training in foreign languages for missionary work. In fact Mormons are said to specialize in teaching foreign languages at Mormon schools, and quite prodigious in that area.

Maybe Burroughs knew all about Mk Ultra or was actually involved in programming activities. William Burroughs was a member of the Illuminates of Thanateros along with Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson, so presumably Burroughs was tied in with the Esalen Institute, Ram Dass, B.F. Skinner , Jerry Rubin,Ken Kesey and its mk ultra operations.

Leary and Wilson were Esalen Institute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esalen_Institute

Found this on Robert Anton Wilson, Greydove:

Wilson, born Robert Edward Wilson in Methodist Hospital, in Brooklyn, New York, spent his first years in Flatbush, and moved with his family to Gerritsen Beach around the age of 4 or 5, where they stayed until he turned 13. He suffered from polio as a child, and found generally effective treatment with the Kenny Method (created by Elizabeth Kenny) which the American Medical Association repudiated at that time. Polio's effects remained with Wilson throughout his life, usually manifesting as minor muscle spasms causing him to use a cane occasionally until 2000, when he experienced a major bout with post-polio syndrome that would continue until his death.

Neil Young is only about ten years older than Robert Anton Wilson

The early treatment of polio often involved putting babies and children into body casts. This reminds of the monarch cocoon programming mentioned where the child's shoulder joints, hips and other joints would be dislocated to immobilize the child and make the child feel disembodied and helpless and dissociate.

http://cliochronicles.com/category/history/polio/
http://cliochronicles.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/polio4-006_snapseed.jpg%3Fw%3D550
A full-body cast being removed from a young child

hunkahunka
25-01-2014, 04:13 PM
here's another video from Bill Maloney, the investigator who traveled to the Island of Jersey during the orphanage scandal there:

BILL MALONEY SPEAKING JAN 2014 SHOCKING UPDATE ON ESTABLISHMENT CHILD ABUSE.THE QUEEN,LEON BRITTAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQGavtZ_0U#t=242

hunkahunka
25-01-2014, 05:58 PM
Elm Guest House. Bill Maloney interviews Chris Fay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORU5x-ryedU

mentions the production of black market videos and connections
the previous video mentions connection to the royal family.

interesting is that Paul Bernardo was caught making satanic black market videos,
knew Col. Russell Williams in college, who also made videos , and Russell Williams
was VIP pilot for the royals.

hunkahunka
25-01-2014, 06:08 PM
http://cliochronicles.com/category/history/polio/
http://cliochronicles.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/polio4-006_snapseed.jpg%3Fw%3D550
A full-body cast being removed from a young child

That face looks a bit familiar:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-g/SRlqPjIidFI/AAAAAAAAGaY/g43oHxoo9jY/s1600/mk_ultra_girl_c1961a.jpg

wwiikkdd
26-01-2014, 10:22 PM
"You have to wonder why William Burroughs felt that homosexuals made the ideal intelligence operatives" ~~~~~ To compromise target. To blackmail w/a honey pot (male or female) The double life of the homosexual (putting up a public front) Hollywood actors portraying convincing roles also used. Who would suspect super slick con artist? Burroughs was involved w/so much evil, and intrigue he was speaking as a seasoned veteran/expert. Look at their bodies of work, whom they interacted with and why he never did ANY time in prison.

bikerdruid
27-01-2014, 12:17 AM
"You have to wonder why William Burroughs felt that homosexuals made the ideal intelligence operatives" ~~~~~ To compromise target. To blackmail w/a honey pot (male or female) The double life of the homosexual (putting up a public front) Hollywood actors portraying convincing roles also used. Who would suspect super slick con artist? Burroughs was involved w/so much evil, and intrigue he was speaking as a seasoned veteran/expert. Look at their bodies of work, whom they interacted with and why he never did ANY time in prison.

sorry ... william S burroughs, the writer??

what evil did he do?

wwiikkdd
27-01-2014, 12:39 AM
sorry ... william S burroughs, the writer??

what evil did he do?

You have plenty of time to read (research this thread) and then you may understand the man better.

hunkahunka
28-01-2014, 01:35 PM
Book on black racist violence against whites - White Girl Bleed A Lot

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/infowars-shop/white-girl-bleed-a-lot-1.gif


Hear the author interviewed here:

http://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/radioliberty/012714c.mp3

joaquinatruth
28-01-2014, 07:14 PM
Sorry, what the fuck is the point of bringing this book "Black racism" into the fray? Nothing at all to do with anything (not that anything else you rant about is on topic).

Moderator, care to step in? Or are you only concerned when the topic delves into the 'gay agenda'? Hunka's interest in black racism should be flagged from this Cobain/CIA forum completely.

hunkahunka
29-01-2014, 12:33 PM
Yes many of the mentioned where traumatized/abused as children. The mind splitting-alters resulting makes for a ideal slave. Compromising and blackmail are hand-in-hand.

You could not be more correct, and how you applied it to Cobain was a stroke of brilliance too. Yes, I happen to believe that Cobain's parents may have been into the occult. Cobain's father became a cop after Cobain died, and Cobain had a terror of police from since when he was a little boy and screamed "corn on the cops!" when he would hear a siren or see a cop car.

Maybe Cobain was involved with SRA involving masonic police circles very early in his childhood. Remember in My Own Private Idaho, when one of the boy prostitutes (Keannu Reeves) deliberately poses in bed with his homosexual boy lover (River Phoenix) during a police raid of their shooting gallery/child sex brothel in that abandoned building . (Phoenix was playing the part of a boy of about 14 or 15) When the police recognized Reeves as the mayor's son they got scared and backed off, as he knew they would.
This showed the masonic occult circles at work, the way the whole thing operates immune to police.

Elm Guest House. Bill Maloney interviews Chris Fay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORU5x-ryedU

mentions the production of black market videos and connections
the previous video mentions connection to the royal family.

interesting is that Paul Bernardo was caught making satanic black market videos,
knew Col. Russell Williams in college, who also made videos , and Russell Williams
was VIP pilot for the royals.

Author and CIA agent William Burroughs opined in Naked Lunch that homosexuals were ideally suited for work as intelligence agents.

I suspect that what is going on is that a lot of these orphaned
boys and girls are being ritually abused and programmed.

Places like Elm Guest House would serve the dual purpose of dissociating
the children sexually with confusing gender roles (Queens and Kings parties etc.) {preventing these 'projects' from developing a single self-identity** and compromising prominent people forced to participate in illegal sex with minors in order to move higher in
certain occult hierarchies.

William Burroughs himself was sent to a masonic boarding school/training camp at the age of 15 and there became homosexual and an expert marksman. (Los Alamos Ranch School).The training ground was located in Los Alamos, New Mexico. So, imagine some initiation cult ritual where some new man in military intelligence is told that he'll have to participate in gang raping the 15 year old William Burroughs
and just to make sure everyone present knows its serious business, someone ends up dead during the ritual, eyeballs cut out etc.
Remember the kid who mentioned being forced into something similar at Bohemian Grove? His name was
Paul Bonacci.

There is no telling what may have been done to William Burroughs there at Los Alomos Ranch School. The training camp was also home to an advanced mounted Scout troop, and later became the Los Alamos National Laboratory Department of Defense base, the development site of the Manhattan Project during World War II, and one of the largest science and technology institutions in the world.
So it all ties in with Cobain being murdered by the CIA. He knew too much, and there he was , in with that whole group of occult people, from Courtney Love (who virtually grew up in places like Bohemian Grove and Camp Winnarainbow and orphanages and boarding schools/juvenile detention centers etc) to William Burroughs to Gus Van Sant. Kurt Cobain had dinner with Gus Van Sant and Van Sant wanted to put Cobain in a movie of his. (probably Good Will Hunting. Van Sant knew of Cobains past as a homosexual prostitute.
Burroughs went on to become a marksman/sharpshooter/assassin for the CIA.
He's famous for his books on living as a junkie performing homosexual acts to feed a heavy drug habit and later shooting his wife Joan Volmer in the head.
see this video on Burroughs here:

The video describes how Burroughs was recruited as a youth and trained as an assassin and marksman, then Burroughs shows off all of his covert assassination tools, talks about murdering his wife while consumed by a 'malevolent spirit' (Burroughs was never convicted for it).

Interesting video:
http://vimeo.com/84472590

My guess is that Elm Guest House was intertwined with training programs for MI6/military intelligence/ black-ops recruits
similar to what was done with William Burroughs.

How do you create a cold-blooded killer? Much the same as you would go about creating a vicious junk yard guard dog.
Show it no love, starve it, cage it, beat it, etc. Eventually it will make a very frightening guard dog .

SO at a guess , this is what is going on with these young orphaned boys. They are being cultivated to become addicted
to degrading , painful sex , addicted to drugs, learning to hate humanity more as they go....
and of course eventually find their way into some black-ops operation or even privately owned mercenary firm like Blackwater or a band like the Sex Pistols etc.

joaquinatruth
29-01-2014, 09:17 PM
Bullshit.

Hunka's six years of spreading defamatory disinformation about Kurt Cobain is wearing thin. Seems almost like someone is paying him to respond daily on this forum with complete speculation about Cobain's sexuality (not one person on earth has ever come forward to say they had a gay encounter with him, nor is there any evidence he ever had dinner with Gus Van Sant, etc.). But nice try. 

Notice that Hunka refuses to follow up seriously or in any detail on anything regarding the mass media total cover-up of facts regarding Cobain's murder, or the possibility that Cobain's inner circle looks completely stocked with narcs and counterintelligence agents, not only Courtney, but DC people like Grohl and Kathleen Hanna,  haters like Buzz and Dale, the haters in the other SubPop bands that seemed jealous of his success, or even the manufactured nature of how SubPop came along (and were paid very generously for selling Nirvana to Geffen, where Cobain could be better controlled by the real powers that be). Or about his management that accused the Rome overdose of being about Cobain trying to "take all of his and Courtney's money and run away". No follow up on any of these topics from Hunka.

Hunka's only interested, I guess, in fantasizing about Cobain's sexuality, and of course, black racism. 

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 02:10 AM
"You have to wonder why William Burroughs felt that homosexuals made the ideal intelligence operatives" ~~~~~ To compromise target. To blackmail w/a honey pot (male or female) The double life of the homosexual (putting up a public front) Hollywood actors portraying convincing roles also used. Who would suspect super slick con artist? Burroughs was involved w/so much evil, and intrigue he was speaking as a seasoned veteran/expert. Look at their bodies of work, whom they interacted with and why he never did ANY time in prison.

I think Burroughs did some time in prison as a younger man, but you are right, once he was a bigshot in the occult psyop world he could do anything, he literally got away with murder.

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 12:02 PM
Mia Farrow had polio , as did Donald Sutherland, Francis Ford Coppola, Franklin D. Roosevelt, & Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 01:09 PM
What a gas. In the following article Gus Van Sant admits that he had dinner with Kurt Cobain in 1991. It also confirms my suspicion that it was Courtney Love , not Cobain , who had tried (unsuccessfully) to use the popularity of Nirvana's whole two hit songs (Smells Like Teen Spirit & Come As You ARE , neither of which Cobain even wrote the lyrics to) as some sort of 'progressive' battering ram to force her gay agenda on the rock world. Van Sant describes Cobain as the shy , socially withdrawn underling who Courtney Love drags around with her to various PC social engineering functions, with Courtney love showing him off while herself desperate to be the center of attention.
It is quite obvious that Courtney Love and Cobain's manager are the ones who arranged for she and her husband to attend this meeting. At a guess, Courtney and Cobain's jewish manager Danny Goldberg cut some sort of deal with some high level operator like gay Jew David Geffen to force Cobain to do the gay rights fundraiser. In return, David Geffen et al would pull yet more strings and get Cobain on MTV Unplugged and Spin magazine would follow suit with a cover feature on Cobain.

Also the way Gus Van Sant comments on how Cobain looked brainwashed and dazed after 'getting out of rehab' is a bit creepy in a gut feeling mk sort of way. Its like Van Sant is hinting that Cobain has no prior memory of him (Van Sant)
even though they may have met on several prior occasions in ritual or programming settings.

http://www.movienet.com/lastdays.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20070421164652/http://www.movienet.com/lastdays.html

Last Days • by writer/director Gus Van Sant

I remember that Kurt Cobain, when introduced to me, looked at me as if I wasn’t nodding to him and saying hello. He just stared at me like a kid will do when watching a television. He had short blond hair in a kind of bowl cut. It was summer of 1991, and an Oregon activist group and myself had contacted his manager, Danny Goldberg, to help us with a fundraiser in Los Angeles, to battle a particularly vicious anti-gay initiative in Oregon, proposition 9, that would have made it illegal to be out as a gay or lesbian teacher in public schools or as any kind of state worker, which would have meant politicians, road workers, police, etc. Courtney Love had been particularly big on helping the issue, which Danny told us when we first met him, and he wanted to get as many people involved as he could. And we organized the fundraiser with Tom Arnold and Rosanne Barr’s help at the home of my agent John Burnam in tony Bel Air California.

The night before the actual event, we were invited to the home of Danny Goldberg, and it was an occasion to meet Kurt and Courtney, who showed up late as we were eating dinner with Bob Guccione Jr, who ran Spin magazine, and Rosemary Caroll, Danny’s wife, and my homosexual lover D-J Haanraadts. Cobain sat a couple of places away from me and just stared down the table, in a very odd way. I started to guess that maybe he had just gotten out of a rehab, because of his short haircut, and his wide eyed stare, which was particularly open and fresh and innocent, which can happen when people just get out. I remember him sitting there not saying anything, but the presence in the room was tilted all of a sudden, like the big rock star had entered and was sitting at the end of the table not saying anything. The others were perhaps used to it, I wasn’t. Courtney, on the other hand, was very talkative.

Then, later we were all sitting in the back yard smoking, and Courtney was reading from a rock and roll magazine, and doing a kind of stand up routine, dissing the quotes from the magazine, referring to long standing backstage arguments between rock performers in the northwest music scene, people I didn’t know. The thing that I noticed the most was Cobain. He was laughing hard at Courtney’s routine. And we started to laugh along partly because Kurt was laughing—and sometimes he would add a few comments along with Courtney. They were really into this magazine article. I pretty much just listened and started to realize that I was really fascinated by Cobain. And at the same time, realizing some of this fascination was probably what drew everyone to him. He had a lot of unexpected charisma. It was also a time for me when I didn’t really know his music so much, mostly just the legend, and the rock star image.
Other bands in the northwest whose music I did know were Greg Sage, Napalm Beach, and Poison Idea. Napalm Beach was the band that had the most “grunge” sound, Sam Henry was the band leader, and it was a sound that we used to call Penitentiary Rock in the mid-eighties.
When we left Danny Goldberg’s house Kurt and Courtney got into a very small red Toyota rental car. Kurt was driving. They turned and said “We’re down here in L.A., we don’t know how long we’re going to be here. We don’t have any friends.”
D-J and I said, “We’ll be your friends. Come to the fundraiser tomorrow, there will be people that you probably know. Danny and Rosemary will be there.”
They said okay, but they never showed up to the fundraiser. Cobain later volunteeredto play a concert to raise money for “no on 9” the next month in Portland, which he did with Nirvana. But that night was the one and only time that I saw Cobain, when he and Courtney drove away in their red Toyota.

That last line reads almost like court testimony, like Gus Van Sant has finally gotten to the whole point of this boring little story at the very end.

"That night was the one and only time that I saw Cobain, when he and Courtney drove away in their red Toyota."

"Please state again, for the record and for jury, under oath. This night was the only time you ever met Kurt Cobain?"

"Yes, sir . Goshgee, as shure as golly be, twas the one and only taaam, sir. As shure as the grounds ah stand on, aint never caught sight of im agin, an as sures heck never seen em before dat, nope."

"And you swore to tell the tuth, the whole truth , and nothing but truth?"

"Yip. Thas dang sure , boss."

"And the Toyota was red, Mr. Gus? You are sure of that? Red?"

"Yep".

"Thank you, Mr. Gus. You may step down."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

Basically the story is that Courtney Love drags Cobain to this politically correct
dinner meeting of gay activists, mostly against his will by the sound of it. Cobain
is not interested in meeting any of them and makes that clear throughout dinner.
After dinner Courtney Love tries to fill the uncomfortable silence by proving to everyone
that her name is in a magazine and bores everyone with it, and then they leave.

Cobain refuses to go to the gay agenda fundraising party the next day but a month later agrees to do a
homosexualizing benefit concert (probably after some two weeks severe arm twisting from Courtney Love)

greydove
30-01-2014, 02:45 PM
http://cdn.realitystudio.org/images/people/kurt_cobain/kurt_cobain.visiting.william_burroughs.jpg
Another interesting clue to Cobain being a "project" is that he had a history of depression and "bipolar" in his family. Some relatives even had stints in mental institutions according to his cousin Beverly Cobain.

Considering what we know of the psychiatric industry and its institutions, I think this would make an interesting point for MK-ULTRA experimentation being visited on Cobain's family going way back. As you know, they love to do this sort of thing to generations of one bloodline as a sort of DNA litmus test of their methods.

http://www.bipolar-lives.com/kurt-cobain-and-manic-depression.html

"Kurt's family tree looks like something out of a textbook on mental illness. Many of the Cobain men abused alcohol and some were violent. Depression seems to have run rampant. Kurt definitely came from a bipolar family.

Sadly, Kurt was not the first Cobain to kill himself.

When Kurt was 12, his great-uncle Burle, brother to Kurt's grandfather Leland Cobain, shot himself in both the stomach and head with a pistol. Only a year earlier, another of Leland's brothers had also died. Ernest Cobain suffered a fatal aneurysm at 57, after falling down the stairs drunk. This was not officially a suicide, but Ernest had recently received stern medical advice that he would die if he did not stop drinking. Not long after, Leland's only remaining brother, Kurt's great-uncle Kenneth, shot himself in the head.

On his mother Wendy's side of the family there was also mental illness. When Wendy's mother Peggy was only 10, her father (Wendy's grandfather and Kurt's great-grandfather) stabbed himself in front of his family. He was committed to a mental hospital and completed his suicide two months later by ripping open his stab wounds when the hospital staff were not watching."


There's also the fact that bipolar as a diagnosis is questionable as to what causes it and what symptoms are. The diagnosis is arguably a cover for PTSD as the result of repressed traumatic experiences.

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 03:56 PM
That is what I have long suspected, too, GreyDove. Many of these so-called 'mental illnesses' are really trauma-inflicted. Poor, vulnerable and lost vagrants and orphans etc. end up as human sacrifices, slaves, or satanic ritual abuse victims. Some of them escape slavery or captivity, travel, but eventually find their way back into either a prison or into a Kirkbride or some other captivity/abuse scenario.

One can imagine a 19th century cult scenario right out of that 'Return to Oz' movie, where that creepy family sends Dorothy to the local Kirkbride for electroshock treatments. Maybe even desperate, threatened people would agree to sell their children to such places. "You sell her to us, you get paid. You don't sell her to us, you lose everything. Your land, your house, and you go to jail."
Or World Vision type camps where the children of families devastated by wars and natural disasters simply go missing amid all the carnage and confusion and madness and starvation and general wild desperation. Secret deals are made. Mom will never know . etc.

The summary of Return to Oz almost speaks to this:
Summary

It has been six long months since the tornado hit the Kansas prairie and carried the farm house away, and a depressed and broken down Uncle Henry is trying to build a new one. The Gale farm is in ruins and in a state of poverty and despair. Billina, the yellow hen, isn't laying eggs for Aunt Em to cook to feed the family anymore. Dorothy has become melancholy, suffers from insomnia, hasn't slept, or played with her pet dog, Toto, since her return from the magical Land of Oz. And no one believes her stories about her amazing adventures. One day, she finds a key in the barn that has "Oz" engraved in it after seeing a magic shooting star the previous night. She is convinced it is from there and that her friends there may all be in great danger. Worried for Dorothy's mental state, a worried Aunt Em takes her to a hospital and seeks the help of a psychiatrist so she can sleep again. Dr. Worley, after listening to her story about Oz, decides to use an electroshock therapy machine on her to cure her of all her Oz delusions. The head nurse, Nurse Wilson, takes her to a dark waiting room

Cobain , suicide, CIA.. can it be any more obvious?

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 04:45 PM
http://futurescope.img.jugem.jp/20100415_821320.jpg
Sacred Groves cult compound on Bainbridge Island

The Burning Man connection to Sacred Groves and Nirvana gets even more interesting when you consider that Courtney Loves father is connected to Bohemian Grove via The Grateful Dead, who are members of the Bohemian Club/Bohemian Grove, which also do burnt offering rituals.

http://jonesreport.com/images/270607_care2_orderofdeath.jpg
Cremation of Care burnt offering
http://i.imgur.com/8bqx9.jpg?1




choking on the ashes of her enemy

Originally Posted by hunkahunka View Post
Another interesting aspect is how closely this feminist 'Sacred Groves' commune jibes with both Kurt Cobain's obsession with feminism/male sexism,
and Courtney Love's 'feminist empowerment' outlook/hippy cult background, and noted bisexuality.

Courtney Love would be right at home in a place like Sacred Groves (has an almost 'Bohemian Grove' feel to it. Bohemian Grove is a largely gay retreat, and at a guess 'Sacred Groves' commune borders on being its female/lesbian/bisexual equivalent.)

Interesting that both Sacred Groves and Bohemian Grove are into symbolic burning of man rituals. (guess when you manufacture flame throwers and napalm and sulfur cluster bombs for a living, you get a little sentimental at times)

http://www.infowars.com/images2/occult/bg_2005_cover.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/c/S/-/-/Freedman_Burning_Man_10.jpg





After finding out that the Bainbridge Island (Sacred Groves) has a camp at Burning Man every year, decided to do a search
on Monte Rio (Bohemian Grove) for any connection to Burning Man , and found this:

http://www.burningman.com/whatisburningman/2001/01_camps_unmapped.html

LYRES Camp, is the home base for the Oracle of Black Rock and her Rolling Mountain of Prophecy.We also tell tall tales, give misinformation, teach children the forbidden secrets of believability, and encourage imagination and exaggeration in all their forms.

Hometown: Monte Rio, CA

Sibyl of Black Rock's Rolling Mt.
The Sibyl of Black Rock moves about the playa in a rolling mountain of prophecy. Thanks to the awesome generosity and wisdom of the incredible god Apollo, among others, she will answer any question put to her... for a small offering.

Hometown: Monte Rio, CA

So Bainbridge Island (Sacred Groves) cult has 'Camp Mystic' at Burning Man, and Monte Rio (Bohemian Grove) has 'Lyres Camp' at Burning Man

joaquinatruth
30-01-2014, 05:09 PM
Do you guys work for Gus Van Zants marketing team? You are all over the map with your outlandish theories. Sounds like you actually support the idea that Kurt used the shotgun and blew his own brains out, in an effort to "free his mind" from the shackles of mental persecution. 

Anyone who takes the time to read the vast array information that is detailed and printed in books, bios and actual interviews with the players involved will see he was a victim of some serious Cointelpro vultures who had long planned on creating grunge and using Kurt and Nirvana for his talent  sell the whole thing to disaffected youth. Kurt was forced to meet with William Burroughs although in interviews he doesn't seem to be all that much of a fan, or impressed. His heroin use was also marketed as fashion in an unprecedented way that was never done when hundreds of other rock stars were od'ing on heroin in private. 

Thanks to this forum for propagating exactly what the media wants. And special thanks to Hunka for throwing in things like "Jew manager"  and "gay Geffen". You almost sound like one of the racists and homophobes Kurt railed against in his liner notes. Your agenda is transparent.

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 05:35 PM
http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/c/S/-/-/Freedman_Burning_Man_10.jpg

The more I look at the above image, with a mind to my admittedly limited knowledge of what transpired at the Aztec and Mayan pyramids (ritual human sacrifice etc.) the more the above image smacks of cannibalism.
What you see above is a Mayan type pyramid, and atop of it is a man who is destined to be ritually roasted.

http://megustaelcine.es/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/79f5c12d13240dbi3.jpg

Courtney Love has continued her lesbian activism, this was last year at an event in Los Angeles

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/mf/an_evening_with_women_arrivals_200512/lorri-jean-courtney-love-the-la-gay_3892350.jpg

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/carnie-wilson-and-courtney-love-la-gay-1LsAH7.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp27/meatbyproduct/cobaintart_0001.jpg

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 05:41 PM
Do you guys work for Gus Van Zants marketing team? You almost sound like one of the racists and homophobes that Kurtney railed against in their liner notes. Your agenda is transparent.

I was offered the job to join Gus Van Sant's marketing team, but I was fired after the first assignment . I was told to show up at one of Gus's premier film openings and swoon over Gus Van Sant. It didn't go too well. I drooled on the rug while rubbing my hips and groin into the red carpet. Guess I took things a bit too far.

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 05:58 PM
Listen to this interview of homosexual Capitol hill insider and author
Robert Merritt (wrote the book Watergate Exposed), who reveals
that he used homosexual sex to entrap and compromise top
Capitol Hill politicians for decades.

http://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/radioliberty/012714a.mp3

This guy is the real deal, and if anyone would know about Boystown
and the Franklin coverup and satanic ritual abuse etc. , it would
be Robert Merritt. Unfortunately it appears that Dr. Stan Monteith
asked him not to delve into certain subject matter, and when Merritt
started to expound on the depths of the evil which he was involved
with, Dr. Stan Monteith cut him off sort of , headed it off

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 06:11 PM
http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/c/S/-/-/Freedman_Burning_Man_10.jpg
The more I look at the above image, with a mind to my admittedly limited knowledge of what transpired at the Mayan pyramids (ritual human sacrifice etc.) the more the above image smacks of cannibalism.
What you see above is a Mayan type pyramid, and atop of it is a man who is destined to be ritually roasted.

More evidence of cannibalism at the Aztec pyramids. Clearly they were roasting something in sacrifice to the fire god Huehueteotl, and I don't thinking it was toasted oatie-o's:

Mexico finds fire-god figure at top of Pyramid of the Sun
February 14, 2013|By Daniel Hernandez

MEXICO CITY -- Did the rulers of the ancient city of Teotihuacan dedicate their largest pyramid to the god of fire, the so-called old god with a signature beard and fire atop his head?

Mexican archaeologists announced this week that a figure of the god, called Huehueteotl, was found in a covered pit at the apex of the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan, a popular archaeological site north of Mexico City.

Excavations are ongoing, but the discovery suggests that a long-disappeared temple at the top of the pyramid was used to perform ritual offerings to the fire god, Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History, or INAH, said in a statement Monday.

Huehueteotl is known in the archaeology of various Mesoamerican civilizations, such as the Olmecs and Aztecs, and the Aztecs' predecessors in the Valley of Mexico, the Teotihuacanos. He is commonly represented as a viejo, or old man, sitting in a cross-legged position, often with a beard and a beaked nose, and with a hearth-like source of fire balanced on his head. Huehueteotl is associated with wisdom and rulership.

Archaeologists found the Huehueteotl, along with two stone pillars, in a covered pit about 15 feet deep, at a height of about 214 feet from the ground. The pit is below the remnants of a platform at the top of the Pyramid of the Sun that probably served as the foundation for a temple.

The people of Teotihuacan finished building the pyramid around AD 100 and destroyed its apex temple themselves around the end of the 5th century or the beginning of the 6th century, INAH said.

Archaeologists did not know that a pit existed at the top of the stepped pyramid, renowned as one of the largest of its kind in the Americas. It is now thought that Leopoldo Batres, the pioneering archaeologist who restored the pyramid to the basic form seen today, covered the platform a century ago without properly excavating it.

"Once we didn't find the bottom of the platform, upon further digging we figured out it was pit," INAH archaeologist Nelly Nuñez said in a video.

In 2011, INAH archaeologists announced they had found a 400-foot-long tunnel at the base of the Pyramid of the Sun, which is still being studied. Mexico's government has been excavating the structure in earnest since 2005. Only a fraction of the Teotihuacan site has been studied in about 100 years of government archaeological work there.

The Huehueteotl was uncovered between June and December. It weighs 418 pounds and is made of a gray volcanic stone

http://www.jqjacobs.net/mesoamerica/images/piramide_sol.jpg
Pyramid of the Sun — Teotihuacan, Mexico

http://snap3.uas.mx/RECURSO1/Diapositivas/Arte%20Hispanico%20Golfo/Huehueteotl%20-%20MNA%20Mex.jpg
QUOTE

Huehueteotl appears in the images as a wrinkled old man bent and knees, arms and hands resting on his crossed legs and holding a huge brazier (tlecuil) on head to light the fire in the brazier registered symbol appears "staggered" or sacred sign of the cross knot equivalent to the "ankh" (or key Egyptian breath of life) and "loop Shiva" (Rakhi) of Hindus. The cruciform, the cross is repeated in the figures of the priests of this god, since Huehuetéotl was the center in relation to the cardinal points marking that identifies the cross.
He is a symbol of the Fifth Sun and the fifth humanity and expressed as Fernand Schwarz, ability to climb a vertical dimension, spiritual liberation, from there its link with fire His cult dates back to the early Mesoamerican civilizations, as her figure was found in ancient settlements as Cuicuilco and Monte Alban in Mexico

http://www.samaelgnosis.net/imagenes/antropologia/aztecas/dioses/huehueteotl.gif



http://www.zgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/roast_baby.jpg

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 06:46 PM
http://cdn.realitystudio.org/images/people/kurt_cobain/kurt_cobain.visiting.william_burroughs.jpg
Another interesting clue to Cobain being a "project" is that he had a history of depression and "bipolar" in his family. Some relatives even had stints in mental institutions according to his cousin Beverly Cobain.

Considering what we know of the psychiatric industry and its institutions, I think this would make an interesting point for MK-ULTRA experimentation being visited on Cobain's family going way back. As you know, they love to do this sort of thing to generations of one bloodline as a sort of DNA litmus test of their methods.

http://www.bipolar-lives.com/kurt-cobain-and-manic-depression.html

"
Sadly, Kurt was not the first Cobain to kill himself.

When Kurt was 12, his great-uncle Burle, brother to Kurt's grandfather Leland Cobain, shot himself in both the stomach and head with a pistol. Only a year earlier, another of Leland's brothers had also died. Ernest Cobain suffered a fatal aneurysm at 57, after falling down the stairs drunk. This was not officially a suicide, but Ernest had recently received stern medical advice that he would die if he did not stop drinking. Not long after, Leland's only remaining brother, Kurt's great-uncle Kenneth, shot himself in the head.

."


There's also the fact that bipolar as a diagnosis is questionable as to what causes it and what symptoms are. The diagnosis is arguably a cover for PTSD as the result of repressed traumatic experiences.


Have to wonder if those guys really shot themselves or if someone shot them.
Probably suicide. I am thinking Cobain's death was probably suicide
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/108304.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d5sJaHdZEJk/SqAiVnnmzjI/AAAAAAAABWo/DB2dO_-7Igc/s1600/courtney-love-lips.jpg

http://www.humblepress.com/Concert/love.html
http://www.humblepress.com/Concert/graphics/gallery/love.jpg
This pic is Courtney Love with her friend Robin 1n 1981 .At around this time Courtney Love lived
with the punk band Napalm Beach

What if it was a murder and a suicide put together. Maybe someone was hired to overdose Cobain,
didn't do it thoroughly enough, and then Cobain survived the murder just long enough to
polish himself off with a shotgun.

hunkahunka
30-01-2014, 07:09 PM
'punk' band Napalm Beach (Greg Sage) was one of gay Gus Van Sant's favorite 'penitentiary rock' bands.

Courtney Love lived with the band in 1981/1982 and hung around Club Satyricon
in Portland where she reportedl first met Cobain while fag-hagging there
in 1989.

The various Club Satyricon punk bands even put out a compilation record:

http://www.zenorecords.com/shop/cd/sat-2.jpg

joaquinatruth
30-01-2014, 09:16 PM
I was offered the job to join Gus Van Sant's marketing team, but I was fired after the first assignment . I was told to show up at one of Gus's premier film openings and swoon over Gus Van Sant. It didn't go too well. I drooled on the rug while rubbing my hips and groin into the red carpet. Guess I took things a bit too far.



Miserable fail, Hunka! Revising my 'quote' with your own wording, AND joking off accusations that you are a disinformation-spreader with a lame attempt at humor(?). 

Ladies and gentlemen, sit back and continue reading this ridiculous thread to watch the trainwreck that is HunkaHunka nervously spiral completely off the deep end trying to cover his tracks. Expect hundreds of more disgusting pics of diseased skeletal remains and completely off-topic shit about Black racism in America.

Thanks for the wisdom!

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 12:26 AM
Last Days • by writer/director Gus Van Sant

The night before the actual event, we were invited to the home of Danny Goldberg, and it was an occasion to meet Kurt and Courtney, who showed up late as we were eating dinner with Bob Guccione Jr, who ran Spin magazine,

This gets interesting when you have a look at who Bob Guccione Sr. was:

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2010/10/bob-guccione-dead-at-79.jpg


The founder and owner of Penthouse Magazine and maker of the film Caligula:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Guccione

Everywhere you turn here this cult of people want to rush headlong back to the good old hedonistic days of the ancient elites, ie: Satyricon and Caligula and Salome, replete with legalized cannibalism, child-slave owners, sex slaves, you name it.

So here you've got Courtney cutting deals with the Guccione Penthouse mob to get Cobain more press in Spin Magazine, and just months after her beloved husband's death she's doing this in a movie about porn magnate (*Hustler Magazine) *Larry Flynt:

http://www.courtney-love.org/gallery/courtney/movies/larryflynt14.jpg
Courtney Love poses for the Hustler Magazine porn shoot in her 1996 film role as Hustler Magazine porn model
(Cobain died in 1994, Courtney Love auditioned for this role in 1995)

wwiikkdd
31-01-2014, 03:40 AM
BACK ON TOPIC: Cobain was found with his drivers license laid out neatly to help ID the body. This is a sure bet set up. This and MORE pertaining to Cobain and the people/handlers in his life should become refocused. Lets go people.

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 04:05 AM
BACK ON TOPIC: Cobain was found with his drivers license laid out neatly to help ID the body. This is a sure bet set up. This and MORE pertaining to Cobain and the people/handlers in his life should become refocused. Lets go people.

Then on top of the Guccione Penthouse crowd, Larry Flynt of Hustler fame (who actually worked with Courtney Love on the set of 'The People vs. Larry Flynt' and appeared in the film as a judge), you have Courtney's friend El Duce,
whose band was known for 'rape rock' , hookers on stage, etc.

What becomes more and more obvious as we move along is that Cobain fell in with a crowd of little more than cut-throat pimps, gay street hustlers, and drug addicts around every corner. Courtney Love was in with the hardest of the hard core flesh peddlers. Hustler magazine and El Duce, I mean come on ...Gus Van Sant ghost-writing child porn scenarios...William Burroughs who lived at a brothel in Morocco, rumored to pimp boys out to tourists..himself lifetime sexual lover of NAMBLA member Alan Ginsberg... The one common denominator to it all is drug addiction.
Who the fuck ELSE was Courtney in contact with? And why is it all so similar to this?

http://www.churchofelduce.com/images/main_a.jpg

http://glorifytheturd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/boozebroads.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/34637497.jpg

http://thecia.com.au/reviews/h/images/heart-is-deceitful-above-all-things-poster-0.jpg

Porn star Traci Lords was 14 or 15 when she was the centerfold in this 1984 edition of Bob Guccione's
Penthouse Magazine:
http://scs.viceland.com/int/v12n11/htdocs/lost/6.jpg

wwiikkdd
31-01-2014, 06:59 AM
http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/eldon_hoke.shtml Courtney Love comes from an obvious MK type background. She was one of his handlers. There is no way this was a suicide. FAR too many side tracking, a slip here a slide there that TIES in to the WKKC question will be reverent. CIA and these other offshoots are the ringleaders in these major producers-controllers of the porn/music/media/movie machines. And the heads of these machines tie into another higher level. They ALL share a common link.

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 12:57 PM
http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/eldon_hoke.shtml Courtney Love comes from an obvious MK type background. She was one of his handlers. There is no way this was a suicide. FAR too many side tracking, a slip here a slide there that TIES in to the WKKC question will be reverent. CIA and these other offshoots are the ringleaders in these major producers-controllers of the porn/music/media/movie machines. And the heads of these machines tie into another higher level. They ALL share a common link.

I agree with you there. The Hells Angels are documented in news articles to own and control virtually every legal stripping agency in the West and own every legal brothel in Nevada. As well as owning and controlling numerous stripping clubs, porn shops (remember those?), escort services etc. Not to mention controlling the lions share of street prostitution in many many cities.
Everyone knows who the Hells Angels really answer to, the Skull n' Bones Society and at the higher level above that, their (S&B) origins, the British oligarchy which created the East Indian Shipping Company and fought the Opium Wars. Which is totally CIA/Mi6 from the top down. Would it come as any surprise that porn mags and porn films are created and controlled by the same network of people? Some will say that Guccione would have been part of the Sicilian mafia, but the mafia tie into this whole thing anyway. It's all about rich elites having control of everything from sex to drugs.

Famous lyrics for 500, Alex:

Who wrote the following lyrics and what do they mean?

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me

As far as Cobain's handler being Courtney , an interesting twist on that is the 'twinning' theme which seems
to prevail in the mk world. Its almost like Cobain and his wife were twinned. Both blonde aspiring amateur musicians
when they met. Both of them reputedly bisexual, with potential to harbor both male and female alters.

Courtney would probably have been called 'Court', for short, by those who knew her or lived with her. So you've got bi-gendered Kurt and bi-gendered Kort twinning together, doing the whole rock rebel thing , both of them hooked on heroin, both of them signed to the same record company.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/08/26/cobain_narrowweb__200x291.jpg

http://worleygig.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/courtney-love-train-wreck.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/989/ciasexslaves2yi8.jpg

This article on Monarch Slaves and MK Ultra was originally published in Hustler in 2001.

The Stepford Whores: Project Monarch and Mind-Controlled Sex Slaves
By Tracy R. Twyman
[Note: This is the unedited version of an article was originally printed in a 2001 issue of Hustler Magazine.]

In the months preceding September 11th 2001, the airwaves of cable news channels were filled with the saga of Congressman Gary Condit, and the cover-up of his affair with intern Chadra Levy. Levy disappeared on April 30, 2001 – Walpurgisnacht – the most sacred witch holiday on the calendar. Condit’s not-very-forthcoming nature on the matter, coupled with the fact that Chandra appeared to be on her way to visit him on the night she disappeared led to speculation that he was somehow involved with her kidnapping and/or death. This speculation reached a fevered pitch when bizarre details of Condit’s love life began to mount. Twenty-seven other women came forth claiming to have had extramarital relations with the Congressmen, including two women (15-years-old at the time), who claimed that he had violently raped them while still a State Assemblyman. Condit was described by one attorney involved in the case as “A serial predator of women.” One of the women, Torrie Hendley, who met the leather-clad Condit at a Harley Davidson convention, conducted an interview with The Globe tabloid newspaper in which she revealed that Condit enjoyed kinky, sado-masochistic sex, referring to his many ladies as his “sex slaves.” She also said that he insisted on using code names with these women while talking on the phone, and refused to wear condoms, stating to Ms. Hendley that “there’s a cure for AIDS, anyway.” After living through the media blitz of the Clinton impeachment, and now this, many began to wonder: Why do so many men in positions of power require lots of sex with a variety of people? And where do such men get this sense of entitlement, this attitude that they should be continually provided with a harem of sexual servants, maintained, oftentimes, at taxpayers’ expense? Few, if any journalists, however, brought up the amazing similarity between the case of Gary Condit’s “sex slaves”, and the stories of dozens of men and women who claim to have been forced into sexual slavery for the wealthy and powerful by none other than our own Central Intelligence Agency, through an offshoot of the MK-ULTRA mind control program known as Project Monarch.

It is well-known now in most literate circles, from declassified documents available through Freedom of Information Act, that the United States CIA engaged in a number of covert experiments in mind control, often on unwitting subjects, throughout the 50s, 60s, and 70s as part of a program known as MK-ULTRA. Thus, for example, we have the familiar stories of soldiers in Vietnam being subjected to involuntary testing of the effects of L.S.D. and other drugs on battlefield performance. MK-ULTRA had its roots in Project Paperclip, a port-WWII operation authorized by Harry Truman, in which top scientists from Nazi Germany were smuggled into the United States to work with NASA, the military, and the intelligence community. Their newly acquired knowledge of mind control techniques had come from their experiments on prisoners in Nazi concentration camps, in which, according to experts, they learned of the effects that the calculated use of torture, drugs, hypnotism, electroshock, and sleep deprivation could have on an individual personality. According to some, the result was found to be a fragmenting of the personality into separate components which are unaware of one another, creating what is known today as “Multiple Personality Disorder”, or by the more recent, clinically-accepted term, “Dissociative Identity Disorder.” The individual personality components could then be programmed to perform certain tasks, much like a computer. According to former FBI agent and mind control expert Ted Gunderson: “It’s a combination of torture, hypnosis, drugs. And what happens is, they torture them so much, that their personality splits in order to endure the pain and misery. When their personality splits, they became another person, and it’s through this technique that they train them.” Such techniques could, says Gunderson, create Manchurian candidates, unwitting agents of espionage who could commit assassinations, spy, and courier sensitive messages against their will and without any recollection of these events.

For instance, consider the case of Candy Jones, a popular New York pin-up model who one day, suddenly recovered previously suppressed memories of having been used as a courier pigeon for the government while under hypnosis (i.e., mind control.) As most forms of hypnosis usually do, mind control training involves the use of “Neuro-Linguistic Programming”, teaching the brain to associate certain words or sounds with the performance of certain actions, both mental and physical. Under this definition, teaching your dog to “roll over” on command is Neuro-Linguistic Programming, although a more covert method would involve training him to roll over every time you said “ice cream”, and then to forget about the whole event as soon as you snap your fingers. Although clearly unethical, such practices were justified under the belief that the Soviets, America’s new arch-enemy, already possessed such covert weaponry of the mind. Former Nebraska State Sentator John DeCamp, author of the book The Franklin Cover-Up, recalls a conversation with Former CIA Diretor William Colby regarding the subject. “What he … [said] … was [that] after the Korean War, the American CIA and the American government, in fact, were very terrified. We believed that the ability of other countries, particularly China, Russia, North Korea … their ability in “brainwashing”, as it was known at the time, and mind control was developed to such a degree … you can imagine how dangerous that was, and we decided we couldn’t afford to be behind. For the very salvation of the country we had to catch up. And so millions and billions were poured into these programs … He said, “I’ll tell you one thing, John. When all is said and done, we were never behind, and we aren’t today.’”

Indeed, according to many self-proclaimed victims of mind control, we are well ahead of the game today, and most say the CIA’s motivation was never strictly “for the good of the country.” For instance, consider the rumored existence of “Project Monarch” the offshoot of MK-ULTRA designed to create legions of so-called “mind-controlled sex slaves” for use by the rich and powerful. According to conspiracy theorist Fritz Springmeier, the project was named after the butterfly of the same title. Training begins in early childhood, when, he says “Children who are traumatized have their legs tied and are electro-shocked and tortured until the alters (personalities) believe they are butterflies.” The whole program is based on the “Marionette Programming” purportedly perfected in Nazi Germany with the same aim as Monarch, in which sex slaves were created who believed themselves to be puppets (“marionettes”) controlled by cruel masters. The value of a mind-controlled sex slave is multi-faceted. For one thing, they can be used to satisfy the perversions of people in positions of power without jeopardizing that power, as a person under mind control is not likely expose the event to public scrutiny. Furthermore, these encounters can be videotaped for the purpose of blackmailing public officials and businessmen should they at any time step out of line, or do anything to endanger the intelligence community’s global plan. (Most people who purport the existence of Project Monarch believe in that the CIA is under the control of the Illuminati “New World Order” conspiracy of global domination.) Then there is the financial aspect. A sex slave can be prostituted from infancy on to wealthy individuals who will pay large wads (no pun intended) for the experience. They can also be used in child pornography to be sold on the global market. Many Monarch “survivors” claim that unwanted, expendable sex slaves are picked to star in the most controversial pictures of all – snuff films, the existence of which has yet to be proven according to the FBI. The slaves are also, say the stories, used as drug mules for the CIA’s secret trafficking of illegal substances. The money derived from these black market transactions of drugs and sex is used, they say, to fund the CIA’s many top secret and under-budgeted black operations, as well as to line the pockets of the perpetrators. Potential slaves are chosen who have shown a genetic propensity for suggestibility, hypnotizability, dissociation, and high intelligence. In the past ten years or so, a number of these so-called “survivors” have “recovered” their memories and come forward about their past abuse at the hands of the government. Many have written books, such as Brice Taylor’s Thanks for the Memories: The Truth Has Set Me Free, Annie McKenna’s Paperclip Dolls, and Cathy O’Brien’s The Trance-Formation of America. Of these, Cathy O’Brien is perhaps the most well-known.
It’s hard to think of a catchier opening line for a chapter than one that includes the words, “substituting his penis for my mother’s nipple”, and Cathy couldn’t think of a better one either as she described how her “pedophile” father, Earl O’Brien, first began to train her sexually. Cathy claims to have come from a family of multi-generational incest, where Daddy abused all of the kids, and all of the kids abused each other. Growing up in Muskegon, Michigan, a “pedophile capital”, according to Cathy, it wasn’t long before Cathy’s father was whoring her around for use in lucrative child pornography. Soon, Mr. O’Brien had been caught, but instead of going to jail, he was visited, says Cathy, by future President Gerald Ford, who offered him a deal: sell Cathy into the Monarch program, and receive immunity from prosecution. They had good reason to seek Cathy out because, she says, “…they knew that any child that was sexually abused to that extent would be suffering from this dissociative disorder that they were interested in targeting for mind control.”

And so her formal Monarch training began. “Not long after that “, she writes in her book, “my father was flown to Boston for a two-week course at Harvard on how to raise me for …Project Monarch.” From then on, Cathy was prostituted to a long list of high-ranking individuals, such as Michigan State Senator Guy VanderJagt, Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd (who later became her “owner” or “controller), and the aforementioned Gerald Ford. She says she was forced to engage in all sorts of strange perversion, from having sex with dogs to waving a small American flag with her rectum. This, coupled with her father’s constant abuse and torture, kept her in a constant state of dissociation. She was controlled with form of Neuro-Linguistic Programming popular with Monarch slaves, which involved the use of themes from The Wizard of Oz, and various Disney children’s films. She was taught to go into another dimension “over the rainbow” whenever the pain of the abuse became to much to bear, and to identify with Cinderella when her father assigned her a strict daily regimen of household chores, which was part of her programming to break her in to slavery. The hallucinogenic and multi-dimensional themes of Alice in Wonderland were also quite extensively used. This was done, not just to Cathy, but to all her brothers and sisters as well, who were also being used in the program. As she writes in her book, “My brother, now 37, remains psychologically locked into those traumatic childhood years and is obsessed with Disney themes and productions to this day. His house is decorated in Disney memorabilia, he wears Disney clothes, listens to my father’s instructions on a Disney telephone, and maintains “When You Wish Upon a Star” as his favorite song, which has locked his children into the same theme.” The Disney programming claim is one made by almost every “recovered” Monarch slave, although it’s difficult to determine whether these claims began to surface before or after the publication of Cathy’s book. For example, a number of them say that they were taken to Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, where they were placed in electrified “Tinkerbelle” cages, and tortured into creating child alters that would, like Peter Pan, never grow up.

However, Cathy did grow up, and although supposedly subjected to daily sexual abuse and torture, managed to maintain an “A” average throughout her scholastic career, “because when trauma occurs that’s too horrible to comprehend”, says Cathy, “the brain automatically goes into its own mode, and photographically records events surrounding the trauma … Since I was being traumatized all the time, I was photographically recording what I was being taught in school. So I got excellent grades.” Throughout her childhood, she was isolated from society and popular culture, with the exception of the Disney movies previously mentioned, and an excessive exposure to country music. According to Cathy, the country music scene is heavily infiltrated by Monarch operatives, because the tours they travel in throughout North America easily facilitate the trade of slaves and drugs.

When Cathy got older, she was married off by “The Company” to Wayne Cox, who fathered her daughter, Kelly (also a mind-controlled sex slave.) Later she was married a second time to country music MC Alex Houston. Concurrently, she was also symbolically married to Senator Robert Byrd, who became her “controller”, and largely dictated the events of her life from then on. She was sent to a sex slave training camp called “Charm School”, directed, she says, by Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh and Congressman Jim Trafficant. After she graduated, she became a so-called “Presidential Model’, and was used to satisfy the sadistic sexual needs of executive-level members of government. From that point forward, the “Who’s Who” list of johns she serviced became exponentially more impressive. She was nearly chocked to death a number of times by Dick Cheney’s enormous penis, and violently raped by both Cheney and George Bush Sr., after being chased through the woods in a form of human hunting called “The Most Dangerous Game.” She serviced both Bill and Hillary Clinton while the former was still Governor of Arkansas. She drove Hillary into a fit of ecstasy with the “Witch’s Face” that her handlers had carved into her vagina which, says Cathy, “can give men pleasure”, much like ribbed condoms do for women. “Apparently aroused by the carving in my vagina”, writes Cathy, “Hillary stood up and quickly peeled out of her matronly nylon panties and pantyhose. Uninhibited despite a long day in the hot sun, she gasped, ‘Eat me, oh God, eat me now.’”

Cathy even claims that Hustler’s Larry Flynt was part of the conspiracy, and hired a photographer named Jimmy Walker to take pornographic pictures of her wedding night with Alex Houston, then had the photos published in one of his magazines. Writes Cathy, “Flynt was unequivocally the official White House Pornographer. [He] maintained … New World Order colleagues such as Presidents Reagan, Bush, and Ford, CIA Director Bill Casey, U.N. Ambassador Madeleine Albright, Senators Byrd and Spector, Congressmen Trafficant and VanderJagt, Governors Thornburgh, Blanchard, and Alexander, and various world leaders such as Prime Minister of Canada Mulroney, President of Mexico de la Madrid, and Saudi Arabian King Fahd … to name a few.” All of these people, by the way, are on Cathy’s list of sexual assailants as well. And another thing. Cathy O’Brien (as well as Brice Taylor, and a number of other proclaimed “Presidential Models”) say that none of their high-ranking rapists ever used a condom, because both they and the Presidential Models had been inoculated against all sexually transmitted diseases. Says Cathy, “there was quite a bit of confidence surrounding the fact, and it was a known fact, that since I was used on a White House/Pentagon level … they would not get AIDS from me, because I was ‘clean.’ That was the term used.”
And what was it that Gary Condit reportedly said to Torrie Hendley? “There’s a cure for AIDS, anyway.”

One of the consistencies that runs through almost all of the personal testimonies of the self-proclaimed Monarch victims is the use of the occult and Satanism as a “trauma base.” Cathy O’Brien vividly describes the “Rite to Remain Silent” she endured at St. Francis of Assisi Church in Muskegon, a reversal of the Catholic mass in which she was doused in the blood of a freshly-slaughtered lamb and made to take an oath of secrecy. She also witnessed human sacrifices taking place at the Bohemian Grove retreat, an exclusive club for global movers and shakers, who meet on a private island every year in secret, dress up in funny costumes and indulge in their most extreme perversions with mind-controlled “Stepford Whores” like Cathy, much like the Stanley Kubrick film Eyes Wide Shut. Brice Taylor (who claims to have bedded down every President except since Carter) also says that she experienced ritual trauma throughout her abuse, including human sacrifices, anti-Christian night services at otherwise Christian churches, being buried alive in a coffin, and being hung upon a cross. Annie McKenna has recovered numerous memories, she says, of her Monarch-trained family donning dark hoods, chanting, and performing strange rites in graveyards. Even her own children, the first of which she had at age 11, were sacrifice to the blood cult. Writes McKenna, “The ritual abuse served two purposes. First, it exposed a child to horrific trauma, which caused the child to dissociate and create alters. Secondly, the belief was that if we ever did remember, the ritual abuse memories would surface first, and the medical community and public would label us insane.”

The claims of mind control and Monarch programming are just the latest details to be grafted on to the tales of Satanic Ritual Abuse (or SRA) that began to surface in the early 1980s. Although now largely discredited by the mental health establishment, SRA has long been a pervasive urban myth, if nothing else. Many groups, several of them affiliated with Protestant churches, believe in a large conspiracy of Satanists that spans the globe, and which controls the drug and child pornography industry (i.e., the Mafia), as well as, to the view of many, the government (i.e., the “Illuminati.) They believe that these people engage in the large-scale abduction and abuse of thousands of children for use in their sick, sadistic, Satanic sexual rituals, and the pornographic documentation thereof. When not from “multi-generational Satanic families”, like Taylor’s and O’Brien’s, where their parents willingly submit them to the Monarch program, children are supposedly snatched off the streets – the familiar milk carton kids. According to the lore, the conspirators even infiltrate pre-schools and day care centers to access children there.

Ted Gunderson has personally investigated the famous McMartin Pre-School SRA case, even going so far as to hire an archeologist to dig for underground tunnels reported by the children. The children reported that in these tunnels they were subjected to sexual abuse, animal sacrifices, and Disney-based mind control programming by, among others, Steve Garvey, Chuck Norris, and Raymond Buckey, the school’s owner. Gunderson claims, “we found the tunnels under the school. … We found 2000 animal bones …” Gunderson believes wholeheartedly that, “The Satanic cult movement dovetails with U.S. intelligence … in addition to being involved in … kidnapping, they were taking kids out of Boy’s Town, and out of foster homes and orphanages, and flying them … to Washington, D.C. for sex orgy parties with congressmen and senators. Barney Frank … [has] been identified by the kids, and George Bush Sr. has been at the parties while he was Vice-President. …[We’re] talking about a large-scale pedophile ring, and a large-scale kidnapping ring … known as “The Finders.” It’s a CIA covert operation running out of Washington, D.C. … that’s just a cover name for finding children…”

“The Finders” and Project Monarch were implicated in Nebraska’s “Franklin Cover-Up”, also investigated by Gunderson, and by Franklin Cover-Up author, former State Senator John DeCamp. In a civil case against 16 people, including Laurence E. King (manager of the failed Franklin Savings and Loan), Harold Anderson (publisher of the Omaha World Herald), and the Omaha Police Department, plaintiff Paul Bonnaci was awarded $1 million by U.S. District Court Judge Warren Urbom in February 1999. In reference to King, the Judge found that he had “continually subjected the plaintiff to repeated sexual assault, false imprisonment, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed Satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to ‘scavenge’ for children to be part of the defendant King’s sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous sexual contacts with the defendant King and others, and participate in deviant sexual games and masochistic orgies with minor children.” Bonacci testified that he was flown on hundreds of trips to Washington, D.C., Kansas City, Chicago, Minnesota, and Los Angeles, where he was taken to “thousands” of pedophilic and sado-masochistic parties, drugged, and prostituted to the rich and powerful. Bonacci admits to participating in the kidnapping of then-12-year-old paper boy Johnny Gosch in Des Moines, Iowa, a story profiled extensively on America’s Most Wanted and a number of other television programs. Johnny’s mother, Noreen Gosch is convinced that Bonacci is telling the truth, and is also convinced that her son was kidnapped by joint intelligence-organized crime elements involved in Project Monarch. Says Noreen, “[Bonacci] told us that he was put into Monarch training at a very young age, right at Offutt Air Force Base … Johnny … was put through the same training …” In 1999, Johnny Gosch, a grown man at that point, came to visit his mother’s house for a brief, covert visit in the middle of the night. “He told me that he had been subjected to mind control … and that his job was to compromise politicians, and any VIP that they felt they wanted to do that to … He only mentioned the Satanic rituals briefly.”

One of the accused perpetrators who has been implicated by both Noreen Gosch, Paul Bonacci, Cathy O’Brien, and a whole host of other “Monarch victims” is Lt. Col. Michael Aquino, a former Green Beret and senior U.S. military intelligence officer once involved in the study of “PSY-OPS”, or psychological warfare – in other words, mind control. He wrote an extensive essay with Colonel Paul E. Vallely (a Fox News Channel analyst) called “From PSY-OP to MindWar: The Psychology of Victory.” In this essay, the authors advocated the use of propaganda, subliminal messages, air ionization, and ELF waves (i.e., putting low frequency signals in TV and radio broadcasts to induce specific states of mind) in times of war, both on the enemy, and on our own home population, in order to manipulate public opinion of the war. There’s another interesting fact about Micheal Aquino: He just happens to the leader and founder of the Temple of Set, a splinter group of the Church of Satan, which Aquino was once a ranking member of, and spokesman for. The Temple of Set now has a number of chapters that operate on military bases. Interestingly, this group’s rituals often involve Nazi symbols and rhetoric, and Aquino once did a ritual at Heinrich Himmler’s castle of Wewelsberg while in Germany on “official NATO business.”

Predictably, this has caused no shortage of controversy to surround Michael Aquino. In the late 1980s, a Satanic Ritual Abuse/Child Sexual Abuse scandal broke out at a day care center on the Presidio military base in San Francisco, where Aquino was stationed. The children identified Aquino, as well as a Baptist Minister named Gary Hambright, who was indicted but not convicted. These kids claimed that the people who molested them were part of a “devil worship club”, and were able to describe the inside of Aquino’s house, where the abuse was said to have taken place. Other children identified Aquino by his nickname, “Mikey”, although Anton LaVey claims that Aquino’s nickname was actually “Mickey” because his peculiar haircut made him look like Mickey Mouse (yet another Disney connection.) Although Aquino was never indicted, and the charges against Hambright were dropped, several of the children contracted STDs, proving that someone had abused them. Later, after Hambright died of AIDS, the U.S. Army wrote to the children’s parents urging them to get their children tested for HIV. They also paid a multi-million-dollar settlement to the victims. Furthermore, Aquino was “Titled” by the U.S. Army for “indecent acts with a child, sodomy, conspiracy, kidnapping, and false swearing”, which means that they had probable cause to believe the offenses had been committed.
According to many, the incident at Presidio was an outgrowth of Project Monarch, and these people believe Aquino to be integrally involved in the program. Paul Bonacci has identified Aquino as the one who ordered the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch, and says that Aquino had a “ranch” in Colorado that was a safe house for kidnapped children. Rusty Nelson, a photographer for the Franklin Cover-Up’s Lawrence King, and a convicted child pornographer, testified before a U.S. District Court on February 5 that he witnessed a suitcase full of cash being handed over to by King to Aquino that was “earmarked for the Nicaraguan Contras.” Also, a number of mind-controlled sex slaves, including Cathy O’Brien, have listed Aquino as one of their “handlers.” However, when questioned about these allegations, Aquino responded: “Throughout my entire career as an Army officer (1968-94), I never encountered any evidence of anything named or resembling ‘Project Monarch’, never participated in anything involving children [or adult] ‘sex slaves’, never abused any children under any circumstances whatever, and never had any contact with any of the cranks who’ve thrown my name around with ‘Monarch.’”

The charges against Aquino perhaps lose credibility when we consider that many of the people who have made these claims have also implicated a so-called “Michael LaVey”, who they say is one of Anton LaVey’s sons. Noreen Gosch says that Michael LaVey was interviewed on a 20/20 special about her son’s kidnapping, in which, according to her, “LaVey said that he had been with Johnny on many occasions at the Satanic ritual ceremonies, where they serviced different men for their owners.” Unfortunately for Noreen, no independent confirmation has surfaced that Anton had any son by that name. The late Anton LaVey himself has been implicated as a Project Monarch participant by a handful of people, such as Noreen Gosch, but not in any specific way. However, it is interesting to note that LaVey did consider Disneyland to be one of the happiest places on Earth, and his daughter Zeena listed the 1950s thriller “The Most Dangerous Game” as her favorite movie.

The process of deprogramming a presumed victim of Project Monarch – identifiable by abnormally wide eyes (from the electroshock), odd-looking facial moles (caused by stun guns), a plastic smile, and generally robotic behavior – is a strange and controversial one. Since slaves are programmed to self-destruct if they should ever find themselves talking about their memories, therapists wishing to override these programs must be armed with the corresponding deactivation codes. Mark Phillips, who “rescued” Cathy O’Brien from mind control, and co-authored The Trance-formation of America, describes the process of deprogramming her: “I had to know certain codes, keys and triggers. I had to, and I was provided a few of those”, by he says, covert communications from friends in the intelligence community. Thereafter, Cathy began to recover memories through extensive journal-writing practices. Brice Taylor used a similar method, with the journal-writing replaced by collage-making using pictures cut out of magazines. Others use the more dubious methods of hypnosis, and similar New Age techniques to unlock memories supposedly repressed with programmed amnesia. Hypno-therapists such as D.C. Hammond, PhD., and Pamela J. Monday, PhD report discovering complex, multi-layered systems of programming that even take geometric shapes, such as pentagrams, hexagrams, or the Qaballistic Tree of Life, complete with internal “landscapes” that have “mountains”, “castles”, and the like. Programs are guarded by “gatekeepers” with gothic, diabolical-sounding names, and different letters of programming are coded with letters from the Greek alphabet. For instance, Alpha is general programming, Beta involves sexual programming, Delta programming holds instructions for how to kill during ceremonies, Theta includes “psychic killing”, and Omega involves suicidal, “self-destruct” programming, as well as self-mutilation. Zeta programming is related to the production of snuff films, and Omicron has to do with drug smuggling.

However, many mental health professionals cast doubt on the techniques used by hypno-therapists, charging that such practices create rather than recover memories, and so do the people who are accused of heinous crimes on the evidence of “recovered memories.” They are represented by an organization called The False Memory Syndrome Foundation, whose spokesperson, Pamela Freyd, questions the motives of those who are, “using hypnosis, guided imagery, sodium amytal, relaxation exercise, participation in groups, reading suggestive literature and other techniques in an effort to excavate memories. Although people may remember things with any of these techniques, there is absolutely no evidence that what they remember is historically accurate.” She also questions the validity of multiple personalities in general, stating that, “Many in the psychiatric community believe that MPD is iatrogenic, that is, caused by the use of hypnosis and the type of interviewing techniques of the doctor.”

Confirming the validity of another person’s memory is nearly impossible, especially if every other person involved in the memory denies that it took place. However, it may perhaps be unfair to label as “impossible” or “ridiculous” the memories of other people which merely lie beyond the spectrum of our own experience. Many of us received religious indoctrination from our family as we grew up, and were forced to participate in weird ceremonies that made us uncomfortable. Isn’t it logical that if our parents were Satanists or occultists, they might subject us to similar indoctrination? And since Satanic and occult practices purportedly bestow worldly power upon their practitioners, isn’t it logical that some of our most powerful leaders might participate in such practices? Isn’t it logical that they would make use of occult-based mind control techniques such as hypnotism, ritual, mind-altering drugs, and Neuro-Linguistic Programming (i.e., rote memorization of “magic words”) – techniques that have been traditional components of religious ceremony, from the mystical priesthoods of Babylon, Greece, Rome and Egypt to the “cults” of today. The CIA’s interest in mind control is well-documented, and there was certainly a time, at least, in which they had no compunction about subjecting unwitting subjects to experiments that might harm them, or go against their intended will. The idea that the CIA would traffic in guns, drugs and other contraband in order to fund their secret projects is becoming more generally accepted, especially after The San Francisco Chronicle’s Gary Webb investigated the funding of Contra aid in 1996.

Furthermore, we know that men in positions of power often require a greater-than-average number of sexual partners, often choosing extremely young women (or men), sometimes prostitutes, to satisfy their often unusually kinky desires. Perhaps this is just a result of the greater-than-average testosterone levels often found in aggressive power-seekers. That the CIA would supply these prostitutes in exchange for their much-needed Black Ops funding, and that they would keep these prostitutes mind-controlled into silence using the above-mentioned techniques, so as to cover their own hides, may not be impossible to believe. Perhaps what people do find unbelievable is the sheer sensationalism of so many of the “Project Monarch” stories. The mental picture of George Bush, Sr. sodomizing a seven-year-old boy, or of Bill Clinton participating in cannibalistic baby sacrifice is not one that most people can take seriously. Even more difficult to overcome, however, is that natural disbelief that arises when a person claiming to have been under complete mental robotism and subjected to unimaginable torture throughout his or her entire life appears to “recover” so quickly after the “memories” are revealed during therapy, and goes on to write books, conduct seminars, and make radio appearances, becoming a professional victim-expert. That many of these people display the classic symptoms and body language of pathological liars does not help, nor does it help that some of them have “recovered” their memories after decades of living what appeared to others to be perfectly normal lives. Perhaps we will never know who is and who isn’t telling the truth in this matter – unless the documents that supposedly exist are one day declassified. However, the tales of Project Monarch provide an interesting framework in which to interpret current events, especially the never-ending sex scandals that perpetually crop up amongst our public figures.

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greydove
31-01-2014, 04:30 PM
Then on top of the Guccione Penthouse crowd, Larry Flynt of Hustler fame (who actually worked with Courtney Love on the set of 'The People vs. Larry Flynt' and appeared in the film as a judge), you have Courtney's friend El Duce,
whose band was known for 'rape rock' , hookers on stage, etc.

What becomes more and more obvious as we move along is that Cobain fell in with a crowd of little more than cut-throat pimps, gay street hustlers, and drug addicts around every corner. Courtney Love was in with the hardest of the hard core flesh peddlers. Hustler magazine and El Duce, I mean come on ...Gus Van Sant ghost-writing child porn scenarios...William Burroughs who lived at a brothel in Morocco, rumored to pimp boys out to tourists..himself lifetime sexual lover of NAMBLA member Alan Ginsberg... The one common denominator to it all is drug addiction.
Who the fuck ELSE was Courtney in contact with? And why is it all so similar to this?



Well she said it in one of her own songs Credit in the Straight World:

Go for credit in the straight world
Look a dealer in the eye
Go for credit in the real world, won't you try?
I got some credit in the straight world
I lost a leg, I lost an eye
Go for credit in the real world you will die
It's the credit in the straight world
Leave your money when you die
Lots of credit in the straight world gets you high
I got some credit in the straight world
I lost a leg, I lost an eye
Go for credit in the real world, you will die

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 04:32 PM
the Z inside the O resembles the Deadhead zigzag lightning logo

http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252ebd503543c2.jpg
image from silent film His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz (1914)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ2MVgxNTc2/$(KGrHqFHJ!0E8%2BmP9nGgBPT4Q1Qg!!~~60_35.JPG

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225mmmqgdolqbyMezh0HmlE5LgA.jpg

http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252ebcec6ede50.jpg
Grateful Dead Wizard of Oz t-shirt (fall tour 1994)
http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252ebcec71f1ae.jpg

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 05:59 PM
The mystery of the Wizard of Oz connection to mk
programming is one step closer to being solved?

Take a close look at the multiple minds imagery in the following
Grateful Dead art:

Bear in mind that this multiple minds imagery was done in relation to the accompanying Wizard of Oz artwork below it:


http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252ebcec6ede50.jpg
Grateful Dead Wizard of Oz t-shirt (1994 fall tour tie-dye)

Read this following summary of Return to Oz for another clue as to what is going on:

QUOTE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Months after her time in Oz, Dorothy is still talking about her friends the
Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion. Concerned about her insomniac habits and
her imaginary friends, Auntie Em decides to take the girl to
a clinic, where the doctor believes he can cure Dorothy through electro-shock therapy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It appears that the Scarecrow , Tin Man, and Lion could be alter
personalities of Dorothy. Note that gender makes no difference,
and the alters do not even have to be human.

hunkahunka
31-01-2014, 08:41 PM
Just thought I may as well show everyone my transparent agenda:

http://thumb10.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/335395/164486897/stock-photo-hand-underlining-agenda-with-red-marker-on-transparent-wipe-board-164486897.jpg

ronisron
01-02-2014, 01:33 PM
Kurt said he was bisexual in an interview. He was also alleged to have spray painted slogans like "God is gay" and things like that around his hometown. I don't know if there is any real proof that he was bisexual beyond that.

I think Kurt's association with Courtney was what led to his end. She is one scary, damaged person. I don't think his death was a suicide, and the note was probably written by Courtney -- investigators found evidence that she had been practicing writing in Cobain's style;

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/documents/handwriting_practice.shtml

And his overdose in Rome prior to his suicide appears to have been administered by Courtney -- who had previously done an interview with Select magazine while taking Rohyp and champagne. She had a prescription for Rohyp that she claimed Kurt filled for her. Rohyp is tasteless, that's why it is used in date rape scenarios. Drop it in a drink, and there you go. Rumor is, Kurt was going to take the money and run when she showed up in Rome, and she is quoted afterward as saying "He won't get away from me that easily, I'll follow him through hell."

She was also "associated" with the coroner who did Kurt's autopsy when they used to frequent the same scene together. The lead detective was later found to be someone who took bribes and ran drugs..... on and on. It's not a hard trail to follow to a conclusion that he was murdered, and who was in on it.

I have no doubt that Dave Grohl has benefited from this situation as well. I don't believe he was involved in the death, but I think he knew exactly what happened and he's been greatly rewarded for looking the other way.

kung boa
01-02-2014, 01:58 PM
"Amanda Bynes Undergoing Laser Surgery to Remove Angel Wings Tattoo"

http://www.latinopost.com/articles/3574/20140128/amanda-bynes-undergoing-laser-surgery-to-remove-angel-wings-tattoo.htm?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_133629

"However, that's not the only transformation that the former child star has endured. After spending months at a luxurious rehabilitation facility called The Canyon, the starlet appears to be a lot healthier and happier since being released into her parents' care in December. Her recent behavior is a complete 180 from when she shamelessly sported a messy platinum blonde wig in public and in court, shaved her head and had multiple run-ins with the law throughout 2013."

"She was finally committed to a psychiatric hospital on July 22, 2013 after setting fire to a stranger's driveway around the corner from her parents' home. She was also rumored to have been diagnosed with schizophrenia."

ronisron
01-02-2014, 02:23 PM
"Amanda Bynes Undergoing Laser Surgery to Remove Angel Wings Tattoo"

http://www.latinopost.com/articles/3574/20140128/amanda-bynes-undergoing-laser-surgery-to-remove-angel-wings-tattoo.htm?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_133629

"However, that's not the only transformation that the former child star has endured. After spending months at a luxurious rehabilitation facility called The Canyon, the starlet appears to be a lot healthier and happier since being released into her parents' care in December. Her recent behavior is a complete 180 from when she shamelessly sported a messy platinum blonde wig in public and in court, shaved her head and had multiple run-ins with the law throughout 2013."

"She was finally committed to a psychiatric hospital on July 22, 2013 after setting fire to a stranger's driveway around the corner from her parents' home. She was also rumored to have been diagnosed with schizophrenia."

Poor kid. Welcome to Hollywood. My kids used to watch Nickelodeon about 10-12 years ago, and she had her own wacky comedy variety show when she was maybe 13-14. Drake Bell and Josh Peck from "Drake and Josh" were on that show too.

I don't know how many times a mind can be broken and rebuilt, but then again, I'm not an expert. Given the results shown by Britney and Lindsay Lohan, I'd say not too may times.

hunkahunka
01-02-2014, 05:16 PM
Kurt said he was bisexual in an interview. He was also alleged to have spray painted slogans like "God is gay" and things like that around his hometown. I don't know if there is any real proof that he was bisexual beyond that.
I think Kurt's association with Courtney was what led to his end. She is one scary, damaged person. I don't think his death was a suicide, and the note was probably written by Courtney -- investigators found evidence that she had been practicing writing in Cobain's style;

http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/documents/handwriting_practice.shtml

And his overdose in Rome prior to his suicide appears to have been administered by Courtney -- who had previously done an interview with Select magazine while taking Rohyp and champagne. She had a prescription for Rohyp that she claimed Kurt filled for her. Rohyp is tasteless, that's why it is used in date rape scenarios. Drop it in a drink, and there you go. Rumor is, Kurt was going to take the money and run when she showed up in Rome, and she is quoted afterward as saying "He won't get away from me that easily, I'll follow him through hell."

She was also "associated" with the coroner who did Kurt's autopsy when they used to frequent the same scene together. The lead detective was later found to be someone who took bribes and ran drugs..... on and on. It's not a hard trail to follow to a conclusion that he was murdered, and who was in on it.

I have no doubt that Dave Grohl has benefited from this situation as well. I don't believe he was involved in the death, but I think he knew exactly what happened and he's been greatly rewarded for looking the other way.

I think everything you wrote is spot on. As far as Cobain's being bisexual,
there were always rumors to that effect. He himself said that his image in high school was that of an overt homosexual , and that he befriended the only openly gay student in his school. He was aware that he was considered gay in school. He got in a scuffle at some industry function with Eddie Vedder, where Vedder walked up to him and said "I hear you suck cocks" in front of a woman Cobain was talking to. Cobain tried to knee Vedder in the groin and got thrown into a buffet table and that was it.
Then Cobain's wife once declared that Cobain had slept with half the men in Seattle, which is nowhere near true .
I doubt that he was bisexual at all in the promiscuously bisexual way which usually defines the term. There can be no doubt he had homosexual encounters, like many many straight men have had, and if he had alter personalities, there's no telling what would happen when he blacked out and went into alter ego mode. He may have been ritually sexually abused from the time he was a baby. If he had alters which engaged in gay sex, then I can imagine the transient teen Cobain getting into all sorts of situations.
He idolized gay prostitute William Burroughs and said once that he'd had fantasies as a young teen of moving from Aberdeen to Seattle , finding a pimp handler (chickenhawk, as they are called) and selling himself on the streets. I don't know about you, but I had never so much as heard the term 'chicken hawk' until about 2006. Here was Cobain saying that back in the early Eighties we was considering finding himself a 'chicken hawk' ( when he was in his teens) ?

Somethings going on there beyond anything you or me or most average people in average situations experienced. Not a surprise if young Cobain was used to compromise and blackmail people. One other point to consider is that Cobain was said to be reading William Burroughs books while a teen in high school, say age 16-18. I don't know about you, but I cannot imagine myself at that age, as I look back on who I was back then, having either the interest or the stomach to read through 'Junkie' and 'Naked Lunch'. In fact to this day I don't want to read those books and have not read them.
So what brings a purportedly straight rocker teen to become not only a reader of the swill, but a fan of it? And its author? Somethings going on there beyond anything you or me or most average people in average situations experienced.

Not that obsessing on Cobain personally is the whole object of this thread or this discussion. It is not that Cobain himself was that important. The only reason we are discussing this is because what IS important is understanding how things may work in the underworld.

My Own Private Idaho implies that rich, prominent people are all wrapped up in the thrills of aberrant, illicit and forbidden sexual activity. The casting of that movie was impossible of course. For the true picture of
what Gus Van Sant was trying to get across, River Phoenix should have been about four years younger at least, or better, at the same age and the same physical appearance that he (River Phoenix) was in the film 'Stand By Me'.
THEN you'd get the real picture of a narcoleptic young kid being moved around and sold for sex to and adult woman and various rich homosexual clients.

The suspicion is that even straight people are manipulated into becoming involved as initiation rites, means of establishing bonds of trust, etc.
Lets say you are involved in a certain field of activity and you are basically told that you've hit the wall as far as how far you will be allowed to progress in your career. How much money you will be allowed to make, how much knowledge you will be allowed to have access to. If you want to go any higher, you are going to have 'join the club'. You ask for more information.
You are warned that if you really want more information , you might reach a point where there is no turning back once you learn it. You could gain everything but you could lose everything too. Then you are offered a bribe and you decide to hell with it, you want to go forward. Next thing you know you are blindfolded, drugged and transported. You wake up in the process of being virtually gang-raped homosexually. Then you get your payout and you are an initiate. You move higher. You learn more. Skull n' Bones type stuff.
The higher you go, the more extreme it gets. Soon you are forced into stuff involving kids. Its the same system. You get your payout and you are an initiate to the higher level.
It is easy to imagine that something like this is going on.

Your take on Grohl is spot on too. Paul McCartney probably knows exactly what happened with John Lennon too.
Then you see the two of them eerily together, like mirror images of the same scenario. Bland career boys
paid off with mediocre stardom and surprisingly still constantly climbing the high society ladder , for no apparent reason btw., other than they are 'in the loop' politically.

hunkahunka
01-02-2014, 07:12 PM
video:

Whistle blower Laurel Aston: ex CIA op child trafficking victim exposes CIA masonic pedophiles & more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN3oVRYIYmI


Whistle blower Laurel Aston: ex CIA op child trafficking victim exposes C.I.A. medical occult & more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnsXI46ZFsE

ronisron
01-02-2014, 07:44 PM
I think everything you wrote is spot on. As far as Cobain's being bisexual,
there were always rumors to that effect. He himself said that his image in high school was that of an overt homosexual , and that he befriended the only openly gay student in his school. He was aware that he was considered gay in school. He got in a scuffle at some industry function with Eddie Vedder, where Vedder walked up to him and said "I hear you suck cocks" in front of a woman Cobain was talking to. Cobain tried to knee Vedder in the groin and got thrown into a buffet table and that was it.
Then Cobain's wife once declared that Cobain had slept with half the men in Seattle, which is nowhere near true .
I doubt that he was bisexual at all in the promiscuously bisexual way which usually defines the term. There can be no doubt he had homosexual encounters, like many many straight men have had, and if he had alter personalities, there's no telling what would happen when he blacked out and went into alter ego mode. He may have been ritually sexually abused from the time he was a baby. If he had alters which engaged in gay sex, then I can imagine the transient teen Cobain getting into all sorts of situations.
He idolized gay prostitute William Burroughs and said once that he'd had fantasies as a young teen of moving from Aberdeen to Seattle , finding a pimp handler (chickenhawk, as they are called) and selling himself on the streets. I don't know about you, but I had never so much as heard the term 'chicken hawk' until about 2006. Here was Cobain saying that back in the early Eighties we was considering finding himself a 'chicken hawk' ( when he was in his teens) ?

Somethings going on there beyond anything you or me or most average people in average situations experienced. Not a surprise if young Cobain was used to compromise and blackmail people. One other point to consider is that Cobain was said to be reading William Burroughs books while a teen in high school, say age 16-18. I don't know about you, but I cannot imagine myself at that age, as I look back on who I was back then, having either the interest or the stomach to read through 'Junkie' and 'Naked Lunch'. In fact to this day I don't want to read those books and have not read them.
So what brings a purportedly straight rocker teen to become not only a reader of the swill, but a fan of it? And its author? Somethings going on there beyond anything you or me or most average people in average situations experienced.

Not that obsessing on Cobain personally is the whole object of this thread or this discussion. It is not that Cobain himself was that important. The only reason we are discussing this is because what IS important is understanding how things may work in the underworld.

My Own Private Idaho implies that rich, prominent people are all wrapped up in the thrills of aberrant, illicit and forbidden sexual activity. The casting of that movie was impossible of course. For the true picture of
what Gus Van Sant was trying to get across, River Phoenix should have been about four years younger at least, or better, at the same age and the same physical appearance that he (River Phoenix) was in the film 'Stand By Me'.
THEN you'd get the real picture of a narcoleptic young kid being moved around and sold for sex to and adult woman and various rich homosexual clients.

The suspicion is that even straight people are manipulated into becoming involved as initiation rites, means of establishing bonds of trust, etc.
Lets say you are involved in a certain field of activity and you are basically told that you've hit the wall as far as how far you will be allowed to progress in your career. How much money you will be allowed to make, how much knowledge you will be allowed to have access to. If you want to go any higher, you are going to have 'join the club'. You ask for more information.
You are warned that if you really want more information , you might reach a point where there is no turning back once you learn it. You could gain everything but you could lose everything too. Then you are offered a bribe and you decide to hell with it, you want to go forward. Next thing you know you are blindfolded, drugged and transported. You wake up in the process of being virtually gang-raped homosexually. Then you get your payout and you are an initiate. You move higher. You learn more. Skull n' Bones type stuff.
The higher you go, the more extreme it gets. Soon you are forced into stuff involving kids. Its the same system. You get your payout and you are an initiate to the higher level.
It is easy to imagine that something like this is going on.

Your take on Grohl is spot on too. Paul McCartney probably knows exactly what happened with John Lennon too.
Then you see the two of them eerily together, like mirror images of the same scenario. Bland career boys
paid off with mediocre stardom and surprisingly still constantly climbing the high society ladder , for no apparent reason btw., other than they are 'in the loop' politically.

Again, there really isn't anything definitive that Cobain was homosexual, or participated in activities like hustling, giving blow jobs for money. He was a street kid in that little redneck town, and it seems he would do anything for attention. Just a big F you to everyone. His whereabouts and who he hung out with are generally accounted for -- at least during his teens and early twenties. He was close to his grandfather and aunt, and friends' parents had let him live with them. Kurt may have thought he was being ironic, or something like that when he put that vibe out there, but he definitely attracted a strange crowd. I read Naked Lunch, my friends named their band after that book. (I was a musician in Vancouver BC in the late 80's to mid 90's) I also read Cities of the Red Night which is a book I didn't so much read as I experienced. Burroughs definitely had skill as a writer, and it's hard to tell what is "fiction" in his books. But Burroughs was a CIA hitman, a supporter of NAMBLA, and had some very strange ideas about militant homosexuality; his manifesto is pretty sick. He also got away with murdering his wife. Burroughs wasn't poor, he comes from a wealthy family. He went to Harvard, he went to medical school, and was associated with some aspect of the military. I think that Cobain was selected by, or attracted a certain group, who thought they had a perfect subject. There is NO doubt Cobain was in over his head, that he bit off more than he could chew, and was a minnow in a pond of sharks. Gus Van Sant.... whatever. It's obvious what he is. A very diplomatic description would be that he could be criticized for glamorizing a very awful lifestyle, a non diplomatic one is maybe that his gig is to procure "talent".

I have no issues with Cobain being a street prostitute, like "I won't believe it!!" nothing like that, I just don't know that there's any proof that he was. Beyond his wanting to be controversial. Steven Adler of Guns N Roses said he used to blow men for beer money when he was young, and at one time was taken to a place where some men had their way with him and that was the last time he hustled. Speaking of G N R, I believe Axl Rose may have some things in common with Cobain. Axl is a whole other thread by himself... and poor River Phoenix. Raised in an abusive cult, passed around Hollywood like a human cold cut tray, drugged out of his mind. He was for lack of a better term, a beautiful young man. So pretty he makes me cringe, especially when I consider what he probably had to deal with.

About the bolded -- I agree 100% with that. Absolutely horrible, but I concur. They'll get you one way or the other. No matter how it gets done, the objective is to get it done.

Dave Grohl has been over rewarded at this point. Who isn't he associated with? Told the guys in Led Zeppelin he'd be happy to fill in for Bonham if they needed him. Seriously. Got Paul to replace Kurt in a mini Nirvana reunion. Thanks for everything, Kurt.

joaquinatruth
01-02-2014, 10:17 PM
Ronison - right on, man! Exactly. Easy to be thrown off track in the Cobain case by going over the edge in speculation that is absolutely never been confirmed in any way shape or form (textbook definition of "disinformation"). Lots of teens read Burroughs. Up until recently no one ever called him out on his obvious CIA affiliations. This is all relatively recent discovery, so a lot of us have been bamboozled into idolizing these cointelpro agents as "artistic" icons. Not anymore.

The Cobain case does not require six years of mostly unrelated Bohemian Grove info to solve. Start with obvious evidence - Courtney, D.C. Dave, etc. and investigate the immediate players closely. I'd like to hear Hunka's thoughts on integral players like Jack Endino, Bruce Pavitt/Jonathon Poneman (SubPop) who seemed to immediately recognize Cobain's talent, immediately sign the unknown small-town kid with little connections to the already-existent-and-concocted early Seattle "grunge" scene (yes, these guys already came up with that great marketable name as early as 1981 or so), and immediately started pimping Nirvana around Europe to gain underground cred two years before selling them off for millions to Geffen. Almost as if SubPop already had a tie-in, as a de facto A&R machine for the big labels that would immediately scoop up every SubPop band since Nirvana. Also, try looking at Evergreen State College - the nucleus of not only SubPop, but also K Records (Kurt had a K Records tattoo and was infatuated with Tobi Vail, who had also dated Calvin Johnson, president of K Records). Obvious ties-in that are way closer to this story than Bohemian Grove. 

ronisron
01-02-2014, 11:33 PM
Ronison - right on, man! Exactly. Easy to be thrown off track in the Cobain case by going over the edge in speculation that is absolutely never been confirmed in any way shape or form (textbook definition of "disinformation"). Lots of teens read Burroughs. Up until recently no one ever called him out on his obvious CIA affiliations. This is all relatively recent discovery, so a lot of us have been bamboozled into idolizing these cointelpro agents as "artistic" icons. Not anymore.

The Cobain case does not require six years of mostly unrelated Bohemian Grove info to solve. Start with obvious evidence - Courtney, D.C. Dave, etc. and investigate the immediate players closely. I'd like to hear Hunka's thoughts on integral players like Jack Endino, Bruce Pavitt/Jonathon Poneman (SubPop) who seemed to immediately recognize Cobain's talent, immediately sign the unknown small-town kid with little connections to the already-existent-and-concocted early Seattle "grunge" scene (yes, these guys already came up with that great marketable name as early as 1981 or so), and immediately started pimping Nirvana around Europe to gain underground cred two years before selling them off for millions to Geffen. Almost as if SubPop already had a tie-in, as a de facto A&R machine for the big labels that would immediately scoop up every SubPop band since Nirvana. Also, try looking at Evergreen State College - the nucleus of not only SubPop, but also K Records (Kurt had a K Records tattoo and was infatuated with Tobi Vail, who had also dated Calvin Johnson, president of K Records). Obvious ties-in that are way closer to this story than Bohemian Grove. 

Courtney is someone who has ties to people from the Grove, the CIA, military and entertainmment contacts. She was a stripper? in Alaska near a naval base, and probably a pro too. Courtney's ties go pretty deep, and Kurt became part of that weirdness by getting with her. He attracted her, he bought into her thing for a while, then he realized he made a big mistake. El Duce and Allen Wrench were her friends. El Duce wound up dead on the train tracks after fingering Allen Wrench for the murder, the last person he was seen with was Wrench. El Duce of course implicated Courtney directly, as does the PI she hired and her own father.

I think it was that junkie shit Dave? that lived at their house who shot Kurt when he was nodded out, and I think Courtney wrote the note. I'm not sure if Wrench was actually involved with Cobain, though he did hint he did it for 50 thousand. It's possible Cobain killed himself, but it was just sheer good luck for Courtney if he did, becasue she was definitely planning his murder.

hunkahunka
02-02-2014, 04:47 AM
I have no issues with Cobain being a street prostitute, like "I won't believe it!!" nothing like that, I just don't know that there's any proof that he was. Beyond his wanting to be controversial.

The entire cast of characters constantly surrounding Cobain were too
implicating , imo, for Cobain not to have been tied up in some of this
stuff. He even practically lived with a gay drug dealer for a couple of months
in 1986 when he was heavily into huffing solvents. Between his lyrics and his graffiti and his friends and those two Gus Van Sant films , his cross-dressing on stage, pics of him wearing eyeliner...There are even rumors that in the months before his death , he was frequenting the same cut rate motel strip which was lived in and used by rent boys in Seattle. Plus Cobain in his teens was quite transient, traveling to Portland, Olympia , Seattle. He even was a roadie for his high school friends band The Melvins when they went on a bar tour through Washington and up to Alberta when he was 19. He could easily have dabbled in the street life of drugs and gay strolls in Portland or Seattle, plus as an amateur noise band he played frigging masonic dance halls and 'punk' bars. The scenes don't get any darker than the ones he was immersed in.
If Cobain had covertly done the rent boy thing, who would know? It would have been years and years before he became known as a musician.
From what I know of those circles, and of the show business world in general, it sure as hell does not hurt one's prospects to be willing to do 'favors' to those who can open doors or just help pay the telephone bill for you. Cobain was famous for wearing knee pads sewn into the knees of his jeans. He was into the occult and dabbling in alchemy from all reports.
For all we know he believed in the gnostic properties of sperm eating.
I can easily imagine aspiring musician Cobain at 17 or 18 being taken under wing by a gay mentor who explained to him how other people had done the same whole trip from the streets up to the big stage via the occult, sucking cock , doing smack and self - teaching oneself music or guitar playing. A Jimi Hendrix springs to mind. If you have ever heard Jimi Hendrix interviewed he was anything but macho, and Hendrix was from Seattle. That whole left coast ethos from LA to San Francisco to Portland to Seattle is quite secretive, clandestine, underground...if you know what I mean.

Also people seem to get a mental image block in their heads when it comes to celebrities . The name Cobain brings up flash
images of a powerful 27 year old millionaire on MTV or Saturday Night Live. When what we are really discussing here is the skinny kid
who was probably sexually abused as a child who was living out on the streets for periods of his life.

http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252ee91c71a700.jpg

The person in the above photo would fit quite well into the role of Michael Parker in Gus Van Sant's 'My Own Private Idaho', for example.
Substance abuse changes people and their behavior

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7dSLZfNPM44/UA5tFnlyBeI/AAAAAAABeEw/j8oI0dgqhAY/s640/Photos%2Bof%2BFamous%2BMusicians%2BHanging%2BOut%2 BTogether%2B(9).jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2013/39/438237d8d6349f2e8fe3084aca06638f5852ffb2.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me6oc1NMxQ1qf2twwo1_500.jpg

ronisron
02-02-2014, 06:46 PM
The entire cast of characters constantly surrounding Cobain were too
implicating , imo, for Cobain not to have been tied up in some of this
stuff. He even practically lived with a gay drug dealer for a couple of months
in 1986 when he was heavily into huffing solvents. Between his lyrics and his graffiti and his friends and those two Gus Van Sant films , his cross-dressing on stage, pics of him wearing eyeliner...There are even rumors that in the months before his death , he was frequenting the same cut rate motel strip which was lived in and used by rent boys in Seattle. Plus Cobain in his teens was quite transient, traveling to Portland, Olympia , Seattle. He even was a roadie for his high school friends band The Melvins when they went on a bar tour through Washington and up to Alberta when he was 19. He could easily have dabbled in the street life of drugs and gay strolls in Portland or Seattle, plus as an amateur noise band he played frigging masonic dance halls and 'punk' bars. The scenes don't get any darker than the ones he was immersed in.
If Cobain had covertly done the rent boy thing, who would know? It would have been years and years before he became known as a musician.
From what I know of those circles, and of the show business world in general, it sure as hell does not hurt one's prospects to be willing to do 'favors' to those who can open doors or just help pay the telephone bill for you. Cobain was famous for wearing knee pads sewn into the knees of his jeans. He was into the occult and dabbling in alchemy from all reports.
For all we know he believed in the gnostic properties of sperm eating.
I can easily imagine aspiring musician Cobain at 17 or 18 being taken under wing by a gay mentor who explained to him how other people had done the same whole trip from the streets up to the big stage via the occult, sucking cock , doing smack and self - teaching oneself music or guitar playing. A Jimi Hendrix springs to mind. If you have ever heard Jimi Hendrix interviewed he was anything but macho, and Hendrix was from Seattle. That whole left coast ethos from LA to San Francisco to Portland to Seattle is quite secretive, clandestine, underground...if you know what I mean.

I'm just saying that it really is supposition -- it's like finding someone guilty on circumstantial evidence only. I was at times very effeminate as a performer, I occasionally wore makeup and women's clothes, I've read Burroughs, I've been homeless a time or two, and I lived in the Pacific Northwest at that time. (Bundy is from Seattle, there's the Green River Killer, Robert Pickton in Vancouver, between the two cities over 100 prostitutes murdered.)I am not homosexual, I've never been involved with hustling though it was all around me. Vancouver is rife! I did it to be outlandish and to get noticed. Also to show what I considered was versatility as a performer.

I can believe Cobain was involved, but I don't KNOW that he was. I'm still trying to piece some things together in that particular puzzle.

As for Hendrix, I saw Anthony Kiedis from the RHCP talking about the house where they recorded "BloodSugarSexMagick" and saying in one of the bedrooms is where Jimi had sex with David Frost, and that Frost had to see a proctologist because Jimi was so large. Jimi wasn't macho so much, but he definitely had a lot of lady friends. I believe he was also murdered, and a blonde woman was there when he was. He was left handed, 27 and from Seattle. Lots of similarities with Cobain. Folks around him said Jimi was possessed, and was like Robert Johnson in the sense that he traded life for music immortaility. He had a short life, and as far as music goes, Hendrix definitely left a huge mark. Check out this interview with Eric Clapton, talking about Hendrix; it's unsetling to me in a way I can't even explain....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j082opb4AZo

Jimi being possessed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTnkMVx5jU

I just have his pic as my avatar, and I do really like his music, but it's not a personal thing to me.

hunkahunka
02-02-2014, 09:09 PM
I just get this gut feeling that someone in the know gave Cobain a pretty 'informative' talking-to regarding how the music industry really works when he was only around 16, and told him all about joining 'the underground' scene and what that entails (homosexuality, drugs, CIA crap, occult, secret societies, etc.) Maybe even told him about the bi guys who had made it big. (Prince, Hendrix, Iggy, et al) For all we know Cobain became a freemason when he was 18 or so. Just the whole scene he was into and the halls that he and The Melvins and the rest of them were playing. The Oddfellows Hall, Club Satyricon, etc., the list of masonic, punk (gay) places they went to is endless.

joaquinatruth
02-02-2014, 10:33 PM
Don't worry about the fabricated gossip, Ronisron - there are some people who are paid to throw truth and facts out the window, so as not to compromise the cover-up of the real culprits of this murder. Think of the the repeated narrative: "Nirvana LEADER Kurt Cobain blew his brains out" in a heroin-induced haze. Notice in any article published it will usually say Nirvana 'leader' as opposed to lead singer, like they usually use for other bands. 

As if to say 'The leader of this liberal, anti-homophobic, anti-racist, anti-sexist grunge rock movement was a loser who blew his brains out all by himself. Now the whole left-wing movement is dead, and its time to move on and bring back right-wing, shit cock rock like Marilyn Manson, Kid Rock, etc. 

The more Hunka talks about Cobain as if there is any evidence whatsoever that he was an MK'd satanic freemason (as opposed to talking about Dave Grohl's upbringing as the son of Nixon's head speechwriter, or talking about the Melvins, or anyone else inperative to the story), the more he exposes himself as coming from the same homophobic, racist and sexist roots as Cobain's enemies. The ones who had complete motive to see him go down. 

Cobain as a gay freemason in-the-know is not only disinformation, but a very concerted talking point meant to disenfranchise his fans and followers. Don't buy it.

hunkahunka
02-02-2014, 11:49 PM
video: Is the CIA involved in drug trafficking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hl5zt3MvzE

hunkahunka
03-02-2014, 12:55 AM
Cobain as a gay freemason in-the-know is not only disinformation, but a very concerted talking point meant to disenfranchise his fans and followers. Don't buy it.

I have no problem at all in thinking that Cobain may have been, or probably was, a gay freemason. I won't claim to know for sure, while you claim certainty that he was not.
As far as how any revelation that Cobain was a gay freemason might 'disenfranchi$e his fan$ and follower$', I don't give a flying fuck if they lose the franchise on hyping his two plagiarized hits and the other one , along with all other doodads they hawk online from t shirts to posters.

ronisron
03-02-2014, 01:58 AM
I just get this gut feeling that someone in the know gave Cobain a pretty 'informative' talking-to regarding how the music industry really works when he was only around 16, and told him all about joining 'the underground' scene and what that entails (homosexuality, drugs, CIA crap, occult, secret societies, etc.) Maybe even told him about the bi guys who had made it big. (Prince, Hendrix, Iggy, et al) For all we know Cobain became a freemason when he was 18 or so. Just the whole scene he was into and the halls that he and The Melvins and the rest of them were playing. The Oddfellows Hall, Club Satyricon, etc., the list of masonic, punk (gay) places they went to is endless.

Well, when I was younger, a lot of my heroes were junkies. Logical conclusion? Must take heroin. Most of my heroes had androgynous aspects to their appearance. I took note. The videos and trade magazines sold a certain aspect, not to mention the various biographies and legends around Zeppelin, the Stones, the Beatles, the Doors, Black Sabbath, David Bowie, Iggy.... I took note. Crowley seemed important, flirtations with the dark side of the occult appeared to be of significance too. "Went down to the crossroads...." You posted the lyrics to Sympathy For The Devil, again I was taking notes. I was a student of the game as it was laid out, so to speak, I'm sure most of my peers were too. Not to mention the extreme arrogance of youth and the glory of "when you know everything" -- do you remember being 20? Smartest person in the world.:D

The music scene is a nightmare. My band had opened and closed Music West '95 in Vancouver (the Foo Fighters debuted there) and we were shopping demos, winning local radio competitions, playing gigs -- onward and upward. We had a meeting at a Feldman & Associates office in Gastown, and the agent we interviewed with talked a lot about my "look". A few more pleasantries were exchanged and for some reason I was compelled to say "Man, I'm willing to kiss a little ass, but I am not sucking anybody's dick." To which the agent smiled and said "You'll never get anywhere with an attitude like that". That was June '95. My son was born in July, by September, I left the band after realizing that my talent, and my ability to write songs meant absolutely, or next to, nothing. It was all nepotism. My son being born essentially disintegrated my ego too. Love of that nature supercedes. And that was what really moved me away from playing music in that way, or pursuing "stardom". I wanted to change me for him. Ironically, he's a very talented musician, and wants to try to make music.... to which I explained my wholehearted opposition.

I felt a real affinity for Cobain, I thought some of their videos from that first record were very hilarious, there was a very sarcastic sense of humor there, and Kurt is/was 5 days younger than me. I felt bad for him when he died, all the things that were happening to him and when he was found dead the first thing I thought was that Axl Rose had him murdered. Truth. That was my first thought. My GF said no it was suicide.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but my feeling is he was just a kid from Redneckville WA (which is EVERYWHERE outside of SeaTac) who was a "student of the game" and got in way over his head. He knew the game, for sure. Some of us move forward still thinking we can handle anything that comes our way.... and wind up in a staged suicide a few years down the road.

joaquinatruth
03-02-2014, 01:59 AM
Wow, strike a chord much, Hunka ;)?

ronisron
03-02-2014, 02:00 AM
video: Is the CIA involved in drug trafficking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hl5zt3MvzE

Does the Pope shit in the woods? Experiments with LSD and mind control? CIA. Inventors of 'cocaine paste" or crack? The CIA.

ronisron
03-02-2014, 02:09 AM
Don't worry about the fabricated gossip, Ronisron - there are some people who are paid to throw truth and facts out the window, so as not to compromise the cover-up of the real culprits of this murder. Think of the the repeated narrative: "Nirvana LEADER Kurt Cobain blew his brains out" in a heroin-induced haze. Notice in any article published it will usually say Nirvana 'leader' as opposed to lead singer, like they usually use for other bands. 

As if to say 'The leader of this liberal, anti-homophobic, anti-racist, anti-sexist grunge rock movement was a loser who blew his brains out all by himself. Now the whole left-wing movement is dead, and its time to move on and bring back right-wing, shit cock rock like Marilyn Manson, Kid Rock, etc. 

The more Hunka talks about Cobain as if there is any evidence whatsoever that he was an MK'd satanic freemason (as opposed to talking about Dave Grohl's upbringing as the son of Nixon's head speechwriter, or talking about the Melvins, or anyone else inperative to the story), the more he exposes himself as coming from the same homophobic, racist and sexist roots as Cobain's enemies. The ones who had complete motive to see him go down. 

Cobain as a gay freemason in-the-know is not only disinformation, but a very concerted talking point meant to disenfranchise his fans and followers. Don't buy it.

About the first bolded, right on. About the second .. What the Fucking Fuck??? Just when I thought I disliked Dave Grohl as much as I possibly could -- son of Nixon's speechwriter. :mad:

Well, TBH, I can see how hunka comes to some of his conclusions about Kurt, I thought he might like the perspective of a young musician who came up in the same time frame as Kurt, and was in generally the same geographical area. It's another perspective to consider when formulating conclusions. I do think he's off base about it being a suicide, when there's far beyond reasonable doubt here.

hunkahunka
03-02-2014, 04:19 AM
About the first bolded, right on. About the second .. What the Fucking Fuck??? Just when I thought I disliked Dave Grohl as much as I possibly could -- son of Nixon's speechwriter. :mad:

Well, TBH, I can see how hunka comes to some of his conclusions about Kurt, I thought he might like the perspective of a young musician who came up in the same time frame as Kurt, and was in generally the same geographical area. It's another perspective to consider when formulating conclusions. I do think he's off base about it being a suicide, when there's far beyond reasonable doubt here.

I think at one point Cobain may have been a bisexual insider quite willing to indulge in chaos magic and antisocial trends , like a lot of hungry , angry , confused and ostracized young people are. Maybe its hard to stay angry when babies are being born, room service maids bring you your breakfast for weeks on end, every hotel has a pool, sometimes you get a hot tub right in your hotel room,the limo drives you to your dressing room buffet table, and you've got access to every single comfort drug in existence.
What may have happened is that Cobain joined the masonic system in order to get his information and connections, and then tried to 'work the system' from within. He may have gotten in all sorts of trouble for using the system to build himself up and then trying to jump ship and go against what they wanted him to do. Do I think he was a different person at 27 than he was at 17? Yes. A completely different person. I think he went from bisexual at 17 to heterosexual at 27. He was in an impossible situation near the end of his life. He'd been coerced by his wife into trying to force the PC agenda onto the very arena rock world that he had to enter into and out of each day,
and then she abandoned him and was sleeping around with other men while he was obviously quite a devoted husband and father. He was forced into a brutal touring schedule by 'the machine' which had built him up, and he 'owed' them . In Utero disappointed them with its sales even after all the ink and hype and screen time they'd put into creating him. So as a result they probably punished him by forcing him on tour after tour with a brutal travel schedule (trying to force sweat equity out of him for that dog of an album) He was cursed with a new wife and new baby at a time when his profession better suited a single, promiscuous adventurer than a domesticated , doting and concerned young father. So he was being pulled and pushed in 100 different directions in all facets of his life. Politically, socially, financially, while a hungry press raked the muck for any nuggets they could find. It would not surprise me if Cobain was on Prozac or something like it when he either shot himself or was murdered.
One thought that occurs now, is that when Cobain first almost overdosed in Rome, and Courtney Love saw the reaction of the public (yawn , an accidental overdose/possible suicide ) my theory is that Courtney may have found Cobain accidentally dead of an overdose the second time in Seattle, and since he was already dead, decided to stage the shotgun suicide to generate more publicity. Maybe She knew that using a gun would remove any doubt as to suicide and all she would need do is forge a note after having someone shoot his dead body? A shotgun suicide would
make for spectacularly splashy press.

michael337
03-02-2014, 08:29 AM
This has probably been mentioned, but Courtney was on a Grateful Dead album cover when she was like 5. Her dad was close to the band. The band was close to the Hell's Angels. Their sound engineer was the first mass producer of LSD, and the band gave it out freely in their concerts which were likely CIA experiments/occult rituals.

Interestingly, the Rolling Stones get blamed for the Nightmare at Altamont incident, but it was actually the Grateful Dead who brought the Hell's Angels there.

ronisron
03-02-2014, 03:16 PM
I think at one point Cobain may have been a bisexual insider quite willing to indulge in chaos magic and antisocial trends , like a lot of hungry , angry , confused and ostracized young people are. Maybe its hard to stay angry when babies are being born, room service maids bring you your breakfast for weeks on end, every hotel has a pool, sometimes you get a hot tub right in your hotel room,the limo drives you to your dressing room buffet table, and you've got access to every single comfort drug in existence.
What may have happened is that Cobain joined the masonic system in order to get his information and connections, and then tried to 'work the system' from within. He may have gotten in all sorts of trouble for using the system to build himself up and then trying to jump ship and go against what they wanted him to do. Do I think he was a different person at 27 than he was at 17? Yes. A completely different person. I think he went from bisexual at 17 to heterosexual at 27. He was in an impossible situation near the end of his life. He'd been coerced by his wife into trying to force the PC agenda onto the very arena rock world that he had to enter into and out of each day,
and then she abandoned him and was sleeping around with other men while he was obviously quite a devoted husband and father. He was forced into a brutal touring schedule by 'the machine' which had built him up, and he 'owed' them . In Utero disappointed them with its sales even after all the ink and hype and screen time they'd put into creating him. So as a result they probably punished him by forcing him on tour after tour with a brutal travel schedule (trying to force sweat equity out of him for that dog of an album) He was cursed with a new wife and new baby at a time when his profession better suited a single, promiscuous adventurer than a domesticated , doting and concerned young father. So he was being pulled and pushed in 100 different directions in all facets of his life. Politically, socially, financially, while a hungry press raked the muck for any nuggets they could find. It would not surprise me if Cobain was on Prozac or something like it when he either shot himself or was murdered.
One thought that occurs now, is that when Cobain first almost overdosed in Rome, and Courtney Love saw the reaction of the public (yawn , an accidental overdose/possible suicide ) my theory is that Courtney may have found Cobain accidentally dead of an overdose the second time in Seattle, and since he was already dead, decided to stage the shotgun suicide to generate more publicity. Maybe She knew that using a gun would remove any doubt as to suicide and all she would need do is forge a note after having someone shoot his dead body? A shotgun suicide would
make for spectacularly splashy press.

My recollection is not that the public was yawning about the Rome incident, not at all. It was big news. Kurt said it was an accident, management said it was an accident, Courtney implied it was a suicide attempt. Courtney was the one with the prescription for Rohypnol, otherwise known as the date rape drug, becasue it's commonly known as a drug that people slip to unsuspecting victims. Kurt drank very little if at all, alcohol was not his game. I can see Courtney saying "Come on have ONE glass of champagne... just ONE..." and it's dosed with an undetectable sedative. He was found fully dressed, unconscious with a bloody nose, and a wad of cash in his hand. Suicide attempt? No.

I like the last part, that's an interesting theory. However, she could have just claimed it was a suicide by overdose and be done with it. He's dead, right? It's over. The press was going to be there anyway. And, most fortuitous he should overdose and die as it appears she was looking to have him killed anyway. The Rome episode looks like the first attempt. There is no guarantee that the smack in his system would have killed him due to the tolerance junkies build up, but he definitely had enough in him to put him in that "nod" that junkies have while high. He's nodded and gacked to the nth, and someone sticks a shotgun in his face. I mean, they laid his wallet out next to the body to say "Look, it's Kurt!" in a real obvious way. It was badly staged...... when the cops show up, find a victim with gun in lap, face blown off, his ID and a note, who's wasting the manpower to investigate all possibilities of the death of a junkie rock star? It is what it is.

The murder angle was featured on that old show Robert Stack used to host called Unsolved Mysteries. That was always very weird to me -- I would expect to find documentaries or features about this on alternative sites, or youtube, but a prime time NBC show? What were they doing?? Looking for potential witnesses to eliminate? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jgd_0uomk

Check it out. Poor video quality, sorry.

joaquinatruth
03-02-2014, 03:43 PM
Courtney's not the only person in or close to Nirvana with very interesting family. Check out Dave Grohl's father (head speechwriter for Richard Nixon), Novoselic's interesting background (you can find at least one article about his dad, who ran away from communist Croatia to come be 'free' in America), even the Meat Puppets were the grandsons of some multi-millionaire tycoon (I believe their mother died in a weird early way), Dale Crover's mother had worked as an executive secretary at the United Way (Boys Town?) while the Melvins and their 'followers' of young teenage boys were allowed to practice at her house all the time. Just google beyond Courtney and you'll see a very interesting array of characters in this thing. Its all really easy to find on Wikipedia or Google.

Whether or not Cobain had ever had a gay 'chickenhawk' moment is not even relevant to the murder part of the story (though why would he say so if he was? You don't hear all the male celebrities who actually have done gay stuff talking about it in interviews). More likely, he was mind-controlled with drugs by Courtney and hypnotic suggestions were implanted in to his dialogue for interview purposes to make him look like something he probably was not. Diabolical, yes. Unrealistic, not at all. 

The 'liberal' grunge movement was killed automatically when Cobain was killed In 1994 (unprecedented for the music industry to stop putting out very popular and well-selling music just because one guy dies). This was political, and you can tell by listening to Hunka's rhetoric when he peppers this thread with random shit about black racism or his hatred for the feminist movement. Also, making stuff up about Cobain having "knee pads built into his jeans". Never once heard that one. Maybe Hunka got that from his own wardrobe.

greydove
03-02-2014, 03:56 PM
Not that obsessing on Cobain personally is the whole object of this thread or this discussion. It is not that Cobain himself was that important. The only reason we are discussing this is because what IS important is understanding how things may work in the underworld.

My Own Private Idaho implies that rich, prominent people are all wrapped up in the thrills of aberrant, illicit and forbidden sexual activity. The casting of that movie was impossible of course. For the true picture of
what Gus Van Sant was trying to get across, River Phoenix should have been about four years younger at least, or better, at the same age and the same physical appearance that he (River Phoenix) was in the film 'Stand By Me'.
THEN you'd get the real picture of a narcoleptic young kid being moved around and sold for sex to and adult woman and various rich homosexual clients.

It is easy to imagine that something like this is going on.


I can't help but think Justin Bieber is going through something like this. Also interesting is how they're comparing him to Michael Jackson. Big hints/implications there.

Justin Bieber's housekeeper lifts lid on his crazy world - and warns drugs and hangers-on are turning him into a zombie
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/justin-biebers-housekeeper-warns-drugs-3062212

http://www.intouchweekly.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-main-image/public/field/image/justin-bieber-arrest-dui-.jpg?itok=HmErAHK5

"[The Housekeeper, Tatiana] said: “On the kitchen top there was often a bottle of prescription cough syrup which I know had codeine in it, but I am not sure what else. There were soft drinks like Fanta alongside it too.

“Usually celebs like their drinks thrown away if they leave them out as they are scared of being poisoned.

“I was told not to touch those bottles. And I wasn’t allowed to throw them away.

“I never saw him drink from those bottles but Justin did ask me a couple of times where I had put them.

But Tatiana said: “Justin was once a sweetheart, kind, ­considerate and a talented boy and I am concerned for him. He is now a lost boy.

She says that last spring she saw him stagger downstairs to meet friends on a waiting bus following a row with his ex-girlfriend, actress Selena Gomez, 21. It was midnight and Tatiana says: “When I saw him I was shocked, he was like a zombie. He had a glazed, vacant look and appeared to be totally oblivious.

“He usually smiled at me but he was very pale, frail and looked sick.

“He got on the bus and then Lil Za screamed at me, ‘Call him.’ Now I couldn’t just call my boss, so I walked to the bus to say that Za is asking for him. Justin staggered back to the house, and I watched as I was so worried.

“He walked into the kitchen and there was Za who had a white pill in his hand which he pushed into Justin’s mouth.

“Justin didn’t even react and then he and Za walked back on to the bus. I never asked him what it was, and I didn’t know what it was.” The huge mansion had become a party den. Girls would surround him while he was in what Tatiana claims was his zombie state.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1028461/thumbs/o-JUSTIN-BIEBER-LUNGES-PAPARAZZI-570.jpg?5

He could barely talk and appeared totally zoned out. Later, when I asked if he was OK, he tried to answer, but struggled. He replied ‘When they do drugs they act strange.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/19/article-2235056-161A6182000005DC-230_634x748.jpg

hunkahunka
03-02-2014, 04:45 PM
This has probably been mentioned, but Courtney was on a Grateful Dead album cover when she was like 5. Her dad was close to the band. The band was close to the Hell's Angels. Their sound engineer was the first mass producer of LSD, and the band gave it out freely in their concerts which were likely CIA experiments/occult rituals.

Interestingly, the Rolling Stones get blamed for the Nightmare at Altamont incident, but it was actually the Grateful Dead who brought the Hell's Angels there.

You forgot to mention that the Grateful Dead have been revealed as official members of the exclusive Bohemian Club and attend Bohemian Grove rituals.

ronisron
03-02-2014, 05:25 PM
I can't help but think Justin Bieber is going through something like this. Also interesting is how they're comparing him to Michael Jackson. Big hints/implications there.

Justin Bieber's housekeeper lifts lid on his crazy world - and warns drugs and hangers-on are turning him into a zombie
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/justin-biebers-housekeeper-warns-drugs-3062212

http://www.intouchweekly.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-main-image/public/field/image/justin-bieber-arrest-dui-.jpg?itok=HmErAHK5

"[The Housekeeper, Tatiana] said: “On the kitchen top there was often a bottle of prescription cough syrup which I know had codeine in it, but I am not sure what else. There were soft drinks like Fanta alongside it too.

“Usually celebs like their drinks thrown away if they leave them out as they are scared of being poisoned.

“I was told not to touch those bottles. And I wasn’t allowed to throw them away.

“I never saw him drink from those bottles but Justin did ask me a couple of times where I had put them.

But Tatiana said: “Justin was once a sweetheart, kind, ­considerate and a talented boy and I am concerned for him. He is now a lost boy.

She says that last spring she saw him stagger downstairs to meet friends on a waiting bus following a row with his ex-girlfriend, actress Selena Gomez, 21. It was midnight and Tatiana says: “When I saw him I was shocked, he was like a zombie. He had a glazed, vacant look and appeared to be totally oblivious.

“He usually smiled at me but he was very pale, frail and looked sick.

“He got on the bus and then Lil Za screamed at me, ‘Call him.’ Now I couldn’t just call my boss, so I walked to the bus to say that Za is asking for him. Justin staggered back to the house, and I watched as I was so worried.

“He walked into the kitchen and there was Za who had a white pill in his hand which he pushed into Justin’s mouth.

“Justin didn’t even react and then he and Za walked back on to the bus. I never asked him what it was, and I didn’t know what it was.” The huge mansion had become a party den. Girls would surround him while he was in what Tatiana claims was his zombie state.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1028461/thumbs/o-JUSTIN-BIEBER-LUNGES-PAPARAZZI-570.jpg?5

He could barely talk and appeared totally zoned out. Later, when I asked if he was OK, he tried to answer, but struggled. He replied ‘When they do drugs they act strange.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/19/article-2235056-161A6182000005DC-230_634x748.jpg

You bet. I feel nothing but sadness when I think about that kid. He's doomed. His father is one of his entourage. Lost boy, indeed. He's got the all seeing eye, and the owl tattoo (The owl is NOT Molech, or Moloch, Moloch was a BULL not an owl -- the Owls at bohemian Grove represent the guardians of Ishtar, she used owls.....the Sacrifices are to Ishtar) and he has an interview where the slimeball interviewer asks him for an Illuminati handshke and Justin quickly blurts out "I'm not Illuminati...guys..." to which the interviewer mutters "...I'll save it for Rihanna..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imfru0JCnL0

I can't make fun of this kid, and if I were to look at his first video I'd probably be pretty sad. In that short 5 years, he went from innocence to doomed.

hunkahunka
03-02-2014, 05:51 PM
I can't help but think Justin Bieber is going through something like this. Also interesting is how they're comparing him to Michael Jackson. Big hints/implications there.

Justin Bieber's housekeeper lifts lid on his crazy world - and warns drugs and hangers-on are turning him into a zombie
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/justin-biebers-housekeeper-warns-drugs-3062212

http://www.intouchweekly.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-main-image/public/field/image/justin-bieber-arrest-dui-.jpg?itok=HmErAHK5


Good point about Beiber, he's like a rerun of River Phoenix, how old was he when they started with him (Beiber), Grey Dove?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1yUWDT32acU/S7HqvPZsVKI/AAAAAAAAAkE/KpUWyrFOzFo/s1600/Riv%2B1.jpg

River Phoenix in Stand By Me was like the wet dream of that whole Gus Van Sant crowd.
He'd grown up in that Children of God CIA sex cult, so can you imagine the interest in him
when Stand By Me came out?

Any bets that My Own Private Idaho was delayed by a couple of years
and the original plan was to have River in it when he was at least a year or two younger?

The 'good to bad' transition of Miley Cyrus and Beiber evokes exactly what they did with
Britney Spears . Anyone remember the media insisting that Britney was still a virgin at the
time that her first big hit came out? Then she did the whole transformation to Ecstacy
Rave Diva/Meth Queen. Its all now some supposedly normal rite of passage to go from
a functional young person to a self-destructive drug addict with herpes sores around
your mouth within five years or so.

hunkahunka
03-02-2014, 06:24 PM
Tuesday, Apr 9, 2013


I’m obsessed with My Own Private Idaho

by James Franco

I recently created a film called “My Own Private River,” which was shown at the Gagosian in Los Angeles alongside paintings done by Gus Van Sant, the director of the original “My Own Private Idaho.”

It was a very unusual project. I’d loved “My Own Private Idaho” when I was growing up. Before I even started acting, I used to watch it repeatedly: there was something about the emotion of it, its aesthetic, and the makeshift family that the characters create which spoke to my teenage self. There is Bob Pigeon, played by William Richert, who can be traced back to Shakespeare’s Falstaff; Scott Favor, played by Keanu Reeves, who can be traced back to Prince Hal; and Mike Waters, played by River Phoenix, who can be traced back to the character of Poins. They find each other on the margins of society, and help each other through that time in their lives with an intricate combination of humor, aggression, and understanding.

When I had the chance to work with Gus Van Sant years later on “Milk,” we did premieres in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Then Gus wanted to do a premiere in his hometown, Portland, and none of the other actors wanted to go. He knew I was obsessed with the film and he said “James, if you come to Portland I will give you a tour of all of the ‘My Own Private Idaho’ shooting locations” — as, curiously enough, none of the film was actually shot in Idaho. It was a dream come true, and so together we spent an entire day in Portland driving to the various sites, and along the way he told me stories about that filming experience. “You know,” he confided, “I kept all the old editor’s film reels from the movie.” It had been filmed in 1990-91, so they had cut it on actual film, which meant that Gus had hundreds of rolls of film in storage. “Are we gonna watch it?” I asked. “No,” he replied.

But several months later we spent two days watching as much of the twenty-five hours’ worth of material as we could. It was a project just to watch it — and it was incredible. Gus hadn’t watched it since he had made the movie, and his style of making movies had changed in the intervening two decades. He had made a huge change in his aesthetic mid-career, having been influenced by minimalistic films, and his later films were characterized by minimal dialogue, fewer cuts, and very long takes. So, when we were watching those Idaho rushes again after those two decades, the question became, “What if you had cut this movie now?” For instance, there is a scene early on where it is just Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix walking down the street, and we found ourselves wondering, “What if you just held on that shot, and you stay on River’s head, and then you continue with him for much longer? What would that give to our sense of his character?”

They were intriguing questions, and after we got the reels digitized and I had my own copy of the material, I asked Gus if I could play around with it myself. When I suddenly had that uncut film that had been such a huge part of my teenage years right in front of me, it was poignant and exhilarating: we mark our memories by the cultural artifacts that we were engaged with when we were younger. I’ve done similar work before, using somebody else’s material that was formerly a part of one project, and then used it for a completely different project—but this was special because I felt like the material was incredibly valuable because of the film’s place in cinema history, and in River’s life. For those reasons, I didn’t want to go in there in a disruptive way: I wanted to go in there in a respectful way. To me the archive had an inherent value, for every take was one I could just watch. It was difficult to cut any of it out, and in the end I did two films. From the original twenty-five hours, I cut one film that was twelve hours long and another that was 102 minutes. In the twelve-hour version, there are multiple takes of the same shot, which was a way for me to deliver the material in a way that made it feel like it was an archive and yet also a portrait of the film-making process. In the 102-minute cut I found a way to work so that it wasn’t me trying to impose myself on it, but rather playing Gus, as though he were making the movie now.

When Gus wrote this script it was a compilation of three previous scripts. One was a movie that was about street kids in Portland; one was a movie about two Hispanic kids looking for their parents who eventually go to Europe; and then one was mostly Shakespearean dialogue in a contemporary setting. This last was based on Orson Welles’s Chimes at Midnight, which was a compilation of all the Falstaff sections of the Henry IV plays.

The other thing that Gus did, and which I pushed to the extreme, is that he focused on the Poins character, in this case Mike Waters, played by River Phoenix. Ned Poins is one of Prince Hal’s sidekicks: he masterminds the double robbery of Falstaff in the comic Gad’s Hill scene, but other than that plot function his purpose in the play is to bring the detail of character into that seedy but exuberant underworld. Shakespeare created 1,222 characters, and none of them are incidental: all are fully individuated. It is very moving to think about a side character, one out of all of these Shakespearean characters, then being given the spotlight. This attention is made even more poignant by Phoenix’s incandescent performance. Whether he was revealing himself through the role or not is made moot by the fact that it is arguably his best performance and that he was dead two years later. The performance caught on film is now infinitely more valuable because it captured the best actor of his generation at the peak of his powers. By cutting together outtakes of the unused material of the film, I was able to give more emphasis to the essential beauty of Phoenix and his work. Phoenix in my remix film, “My Own Private River,” is singled out from all other actors and film performances for that matter—because it is presented in such an unflinching way—just as Van Sant singled out Poins in his original film.

Now the significance of “Idaho” has changed because River is gone, but you want him to just be there, you want him to keep going, you want to see what he can do, and you want to find all that is still alive and is still around that exists of him. Consequently, those moments that would immediately pull you out of a normal film, pull you into this film—at least they pulled me in—because River is walking around, he is alive again. What I mean is that you just want anything you can have of him. That sense of wanting time to stop goes back to the original, too: Henry IV is, among other things, a coming-of-age story. Prince Hal’s growing up is at once necessary and deeply poignant, and in many ways we want him to be able to remain a fun-loving, irresponsible kid with Falstaff forever. In a way, the length of the footage of the film I was able to cut, especially the longer version, serves to extend that moment indefinitely — since in an awful way River did grow up, and in another way he’s still in that happy hour before the end. Since I didn’t have all the economic burdens of the initial film, I was able to make a film with a much looser narrative. So whereas the original was driven by the need to tell a certain story, the film I made was driven just by River’s presence.

Shakespeare creates such a vivid, rich, and complex world that we can fruitfully focus on just one part of it and find inspiration for a whole variety of artistic endeavors: in this instance, the result consisted of two new films, created by the act of cutting and shaping a film (“Idaho”) about a film (“Chimes”) about a couple of plays (“Henry IV”). It’s an artistic genealogy, but at the same time we each bring something from outside and from ourselves to the relationship. As Shakespeare used British history for his material, Orson Welles used Shakespeare. Van Sant used Welles, and Shakespeare, and his own experiences to create his film. In turn, I humbly used Van Sant and Phoenix to reveal how much I love them.

ronisron
03-02-2014, 06:51 PM
Tuesday, Apr 9, 2013


I’m obsessed with My Own Private Idaho

by James Franco

I recently created a film called “My Own Private River,” which was shown at the Gagosian in Los Angeles alongside paintings done by Gus Van Sant, the director of the original “My Own Private Idaho.”

It was a very unusual project. I’d loved “My Own Private Idaho” when I was growing up. Before I even started acting, I used to watch it repeatedly: there was something about the emotion of it, its aesthetic, and the makeshift family that the characters create which spoke to my teenage self. There is Bob Pigeon, played by William Richert, who can be traced back to Shakespeare’s Falstaff; Scott Favor, played by Keanu Reeves, who can be traced back to Prince Hal; and Mike Waters, played by River Phoenix, who can be traced back to the character of Poins. They find each other on the margins of society, and help each other through that time in their lives with an intricate combination of humor, aggression, and understanding.

When I had the chance to work with Gus Van Sant years later on “Milk,” we did premieres in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Then Gus wanted to do a premiere in his hometown, Portland, and none of the other actors wanted to go. He knew I was obsessed with the film and he said “James, if you come to Portland I will give you a tour of all of the ‘My Own Private Idaho’ shooting locations” — as, curiously enough, none of the film was actually shot in Idaho. It was a dream come true, and so together we spent an entire day in Portland driving to the various sites, and along the way he told me stories about that filming experience. “You know,” he confided, “I kept all the old editor’s film reels from the movie.” It had been filmed in 1990-91, so they had cut it on actual film, which meant that Gus had hundreds of rolls of film in storage. “Are we gonna watch it?” I asked. “No,” he replied.

But several months later we spent two days watching as much of the twenty-five hours’ worth of material as we could. It was a project just to watch it — and it was incredible. Gus hadn’t watched it since he had made the movie, and his style of making movies had changed in the intervening two decades. He had made a huge change in his aesthetic mid-career, having been influenced by minimalistic films, and his later films were characterized by minimal dialogue, fewer cuts, and very long takes. So, when we were watching those Idaho rushes again after those two decades, the question became, “What if you had cut this movie now?” For instance, there is a scene early on where it is just Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix walking down the street, and we found ourselves wondering, “What if you just held on that shot, and you stay on River’s head, and then you continue with him for much longer? What would that give to our sense of his character?”

They were intriguing questions, and after we got the reels digitized and I had my own copy of the material, I asked Gus if I could play around with it myself. When I suddenly had that uncut film that had been such a huge part of my teenage years right in front of me, it was poignant and exhilarating: we mark our memories by the cultural artifacts that we were engaged with when we were younger. I’ve done similar work before, using somebody else’s material that was formerly a part of one project, and then used it for a completely different project—but this was special because I felt like the material was incredibly valuable because of the film’s place in cinema history, and in River’s life. For those reasons, I didn’t want to go in there in a disruptive way: I wanted to go in there in a respectful way. To me the archive had an inherent value, for every take was one I could just watch. It was difficult to cut any of it out, and in the end I did two films. From the original twenty-five hours, I cut one film that was twelve hours long and another that was 102 minutes. In the twelve-hour version, there are multiple takes of the same shot, which was a way for me to deliver the material in a way that made it feel like it was an archive and yet also a portrait of the film-making process. In the 102-minute cut I found a way to work so that it wasn’t me trying to impose myself on it, but rather playing Gus, as though he were making the movie now.

When Gus wrote this script it was a compilation of three previous scripts. One was a movie that was about street kids in Portland; one was a movie about two Hispanic kids looking for their parents who eventually go to Europe; and then one was mostly Shakespearean dialogue in a contemporary setting. This last was based on Orson Welles’s Chimes at Midnight, which was a compilation of all the Falstaff sections of the Henry IV plays.

The other thing that Gus did, and which I pushed to the extreme, is that he focused on the Poins character, in this case Mike Waters, played by River Phoenix. Ned Poins is one of Prince Hal’s sidekicks: he masterminds the double robbery of Falstaff in the comic Gad’s Hill scene, but other than that plot function his purpose in the play is to bring the detail of character into that seedy but exuberant underworld. Shakespeare created 1,222 characters, and none of them are incidental: all are fully individuated. It is very moving to think about a side character, one out of all of these Shakespearean characters, then being given the spotlight. This attention is made even more poignant by Phoenix’s incandescent performance. Whether he was revealing himself through the role or not is made moot by the fact that it is arguably his best performance and that he was dead two years later. The performance caught on film is now infinitely more valuable because it captured the best actor of his generation at the peak of his powers. By cutting together outtakes of the unused material of the film, I was able to give more emphasis to the essential beauty of Phoenix and his work. Phoenix in my remix film, “My Own Private River,” is singled out from all other actors and film performances for that matter—because it is presented in such an unflinching way—just as Van Sant singled out Poins in his original film.

Now the significance of “Idaho” has changed because River is gone, but you want him to just be there, you want him to keep going, you want to see what he can do, and you want to find all that is still alive and is still around that exists of him. Consequently, those moments that would immediately pull you out of a normal film, pull you into this film—at least they pulled me in—because River is walking around, he is alive again. What I mean is that you just want anything you can have of him. That sense of wanting time to stop goes back to the original, too: Henry IV is, among other things, a coming-of-age story. Prince Hal’s growing up is at once necessary and deeply poignant, and in many ways we want him to be able to remain a fun-loving, irresponsible kid with Falstaff forever. In a way, the length of the footage of the film I was able to cut, especially the longer version, serves to extend that moment indefinitely — since in an awful way River did grow up, and in another way he’s still in that happy hour before the end. Since I didn’t have all the economic burdens of the initial film, I was able to make a film with a much looser narrative. So whereas the original was driven by the need to tell a certain story, the film I made was driven just by River’s presence.

Shakespeare creates such a vivid, rich, and complex world that we can fruitfully focus on just one part of it and find inspiration for a whole variety of artistic endeavors: in this instance, the result consisted of two new films, created by the act of cutting and shaping a film (“Idaho”) about a film (“Chimes”) about a couple of plays (“Henry IV”). It’s an artistic genealogy, but at the same time we each bring something from outside and from ourselves to the relationship. As Shakespeare used British history for his material, Orson Welles used Shakespeare. Van Sant used Welles, and Shakespeare, and his own experiences to create his film. In turn, I humbly used Van Sant and Phoenix to reveal how much I love them.

Sounds like Franco is in love with River Phoenix..... Franco made a movie called "Sonny" in which he played a young male gigolo, his Mom was his madam. There's obvious Oedipal and incest overtones. And he always looks on the verge of nodding out. He's either kind of dopey, or a junkie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0305973/

"An honorably discharged soldier returns home to New Orleans, hoping to break away from his upbringing as a trained male-prostitute, but his brothel-madam mother has other expectations." the movie has Mena Suvari, who is obviously part of the Hollywood sex trade, and it was directed by Nicolas Cage (Coppola) -- Cage's involvement just sends that into overdrive, doesn't it?

joaquinatruth
03-02-2014, 08:24 PM
I can't help but think Justin Bieber is going through something like this. Also interesting is how they're comparing him to Michael Jackson. Big hints/implications there.

Justin Bieber's housekeeper lifts lid on his crazy world - and warns drugs and hangers-on are turning him into a zombie
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/justin-biebers-housekeeper-warns-drugs-3062212

http://www.intouchweekly.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-main-image/public/field/image/justin-bieber-arrest-dui-.jpg?itok=HmErAHK5

"[The Housekeeper, Tatiana] said: “On the kitchen top there was often a bottle of prescription cough syrup which I know had codeine in it, but I am not sure what else. There were soft drinks like Fanta alongside it too.

“Usually celebs like their drinks thrown away if they leave them out as they are scared of being poisoned.

“I was told not to touch those bottles. And I wasn’t allowed to throw them away.

“I never saw him drink from those bottles but Justin did ask me a couple of times where I had put them.

But Tatiana said: “Justin was once a sweetheart, kind, ­considerate and a talented boy and I am concerned for him. He is now a lost boy.

She says that last spring she saw him stagger downstairs to meet friends on a waiting bus following a row with his ex-girlfriend, actress Selena Gomez, 21. It was midnight and Tatiana says: “When I saw him I was shocked, he was like a zombie. He had a glazed, vacant look and appeared to be totally oblivious.

“He usually smiled at me but he was very pale, frail and looked sick.

“He got on the bus and then Lil Za screamed at me, ‘Call him.’ Now I couldn’t just call my boss, so I walked to the bus to say that Za is asking for him. Justin staggered back to the house, and I watched as I was so worried.

“He walked into the kitchen and there was Za who had a white pill in his hand which he pushed into Justin’s mouth.

“Justin didn’t even react and then he and Za walked back on to the bus. I never asked him what it was, and I didn’t know what it was.” The huge mansion had become a party den. Girls would surround him while he was in what Tatiana claims was his zombie state.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1028461/thumbs/o-JUSTIN-BIEBER-LUNGES-PAPARAZZI-570.jpg?5

He could barely talk and appeared totally zoned out. Later, when I asked if he was OK, he tried to answer, but struggled. He replied ‘When they do drugs they act strange.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/19/article-2235056-161A6182000005DC-230_634x748.jpg




Very well done - great time to turn the thread into the Justin Bieber/Gus Vant Sant show!

pound
03-02-2014, 10:34 PM
Speaking of Beiber. Back in April 2013 Swedish police raided his tour bus and found a stash of drugs and a stun gun. Those familiar with electroshock weapons will know that stun guns are often used by handlers to keep their subjects in check:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314689/Justin-Bieber-Swedish-police-drugs-stun-gun-stars-tour-bus.html

A similar incident also took place back in 2010 at the Jackson family home where a stun gun was recovered from Jermaine Jackson's son:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/stun-gun-found-at-jacksons-home/

Electric shock has been a standard part of the abuse, and it serves as a form of trauma. And stun guns are a standard item to keep the slaves in line and also to erase their memories. They might use perhaps a 120,000 DC volt stun gun to erase and compartmentalize fragments, memories of a slave who has just been used. When you shock a person, it destroys the short-term memory. It fragments it, 24 hours either way of the event. They can also use the shock treatments like Ewen Cameron to splinter the mind so that’s electro-shock. Elecricity has been used in terms of implements or devices that have been implanted into people and also used in equipment that will throw thoughts into a person’s mind.

--Fritz Springmeier

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon05a.htm

kung boa
04-02-2014, 01:06 AM
This has probably been mentioned, but Courtney was on a Grateful Dead album cover when she was like 5. Her dad was close to the band. The band was close to the Hell's Angels. Their sound engineer was the first mass producer of LSD, and the band gave it out freely in their concerts which were likely CIA experiments/occult rituals.

Interestingly, the Rolling Stones get blamed for the Nightmare at Altamont incident, but it was actually the Grateful Dead who brought the Hell's Angels there.

Anyone got a name, links or any info on this sound engineer?

ronisron
04-02-2014, 02:50 AM
Anyone got a name, links or any info on this sound engineer?


Owsley Stanley, born Augustus Owsley Stanley. Known as Owsley, or Bear. He was the source of the LSD for the Electric Kool Aid Acid Tests, Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters, the Grateful Dead, and was the supplier for everyone at the Monterey Pop Festival, where my avatar debuted. As Eric Clapton said about Hendrix' performance in the 1973 film "Hendrix", "Everybody there on Owsley Acid... Fantastic!" I personally know people in Vancouver who had access to his LSD when they lived in California in the '60's and they said his was the "True LSD 125". This is what the CIA first unleashed, then they began releasing altered versions of LSD in the late '60's, and the proverbial "Bad Trips" began.

Link to a Rolling Stone feature on the "King of Acid"

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/owsley-stanley-the-king-of-lsd-20110314

He apparently produced 5 million hits of his LSD and was the standard between '65 and '67.. It's hard to find a true connection between him and the CIA.

wwiikkdd
04-02-2014, 04:12 AM
The key is Courtney and her family/connections. How has she stayed out of prison after all these years of substance abuse, child endangerment, felony, ect. She and the band members backgrounds point to another version of Dave McGowans Laurel Canyon saga.

michael337
04-02-2014, 04:43 AM
You forgot to mention that the Grateful Dead have been revealed as official members of the exclusive Bohemian Club and attend Bohemian Grove rituals.

And honorary member Robert Hunter was one of the early volunteers for the MK Ultra program. He wrote a lot of their lyrics.

A lot could be said about this band. Kinda suspicious how their keyboardists kept dying too.

"A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine"- The Grateful Dead

Bill Clinton is a huge fan of them.

michael337
04-02-2014, 04:58 AM
Anyone got a name, links or any info on this sound engineer?

According to wikipedia:

Stanley was the scion of a political family from Kentucky. His father was a government attorney. His grandfather, A. Owsley Stanley, a member of the United States Senate after serving as Governor of Kentucky.

So, clearly an insider. Guy was apparently a genius. A brilliant chemist and incredible sound engineer. A real wizard you could say. Probably knew all kinds of esoteric shit.

michael337
04-02-2014, 05:24 AM
Sounds like Franco is in love with River Phoenix..... Franco made a movie called "Sonny" in which he played a young male gigolo, his Mom was his madam. There's obvious Oedipal and incest overtones. And he always looks on the verge of nodding out. He's either kind of dopey, or a junkie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0305973/

"An honorably discharged soldier returns home to New Orleans, hoping to break away from his upbringing as a trained male-prostitute, but his brothel-madam mother has other expectations." the movie has Mena Suvari, who is obviously part of the Hollywood sex trade, and it was directed by Nicolas Cage (Coppola) -- Cage's involvement just sends that into overdrive, doesn't it?

What does this board know about the Coppola clan? I started a thread about Francis on the VC board but that's gone with the wind now.

hunkahunka
04-02-2014, 12:12 PM
The British oligarchy is well known for using sanctions, biowarfare ( like intentionally spread plagues), internal rebellions, fomented wars, and addictive substance and narcotics to break down any society which they plan to take over.
It is said to have been plagues and alcohol which were used to soften native resistance in North America, opium and rebellions in China, and the British have wanted to take back complete control of the United States of America for a long, long time.
So after WW2 gutted America of a lot of its fighting age alpha male leadership, in came the tide of narcotics and marijuana and British rock music. (the British Invasion) . Mel Gibson long ago identified the Grateful Dead as British agents.

So since the shooting of JFK , every president since, including Nixon, were obviously in the pocket of the British oligarchy.
Nixon supported their drug war in Vietnam.
Elvis tried to fight against the drugs flooding into America, and offered to work as a 'double agent'/informant for, of all people , Richard Nixon, in 1970:

http://media.npr.org/programs/watc/features/2005/dec/nixonelvis/nixon200-b4454269a6ac0ac904dcb699dd99a2805835bb11-s6-c30.jpg

Elvis was dead by 1977

John Lennon was shot three years later.

Courtney Love and William Burroughs and The Clash were all tied in together . Courtney Love was in a B movie
with Joe Strummer and the rest of The Clash called Straight to Hell. William Burroughs at one point lived near 'The Casbah', and the Clash had one of their biggest industry-engineered radio 'hits' with 'Rock the Casbah'.

http://www.theclashblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/joe-strummer-and-william-burroughs.jpg
Joe Strummer with William Burroughs

The Clash put out a record mocking Elvis with it similarity
http://wp-images.emusic.com/assets/2013/05/covers-050213-download.jpg

Copurtney Love was in tight with the whole CIA media crowd long before she ever met Cobain.
She was in Straight to HEll with The Clash and Elvis Costello etc in 1986, three years before
she met and recruited Cobain into her CIA milieu.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/straight_to_hell.jpg

hunkahunka
04-02-2014, 12:51 PM
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24600000/William-S-Burroughs-william-s-burroughs-24681807-300-450.jpg
William Burroughs with Robert Anton Wilson and Tom Waits

http://www.whale.to/b/aphrod3.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gm9TwKBXL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU15_.jpg

michael337
04-02-2014, 01:17 PM
Tom Waits is also close friends with Francis Ford Coppola.

ronisron
04-02-2014, 01:56 PM
The key is Courtney and her family/connections. How has she stayed out of prison after all these years of substance abuse, child endangerment, felony, ect. She and the band members backgrounds point to another version of Dave McGowans Laurel Canyon saga.

You bet. That Laurel Canyon series is heartbreaking for me because I like so many of those artists, but it's fantastic nonetheless. If you were a musician in Laurel Canyon in the '60's, your life expectancy was equivalent to that of a front line soldier in Vietnam.

ronisron
04-02-2014, 02:10 PM
What does this board know about the Coppola clan? I started a thread about Francis on the VC board but that's gone with the wind now.

Can you bring the info here?

joaquinatruth
04-02-2014, 09:31 PM
http://stuffstonerslike.com/2011/03/25/how-the-melvins-killed-kurt-cobain/

kung boa
04-02-2014, 11:41 PM
Owsley Stanley, born Augustus Owsley Stanley. Known as Owsley, or Bear. He was the source of the LSD for the Electric Kool Aid Acid Tests, Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters, the Grateful Dead, and was the supplier for everyone at the Monterey Pop Festival, where my avatar debuted. As Eric Clapton said about Hendrix' performance in the 1973 film "Hendrix", "Everybody there on Owsley Acid... Fantastic!" I personally know people in Vancouver who had access to his LSD when they lived in California in the '60's and they said his was the "True LSD 125". This is what the CIA first unleashed, then they began releasing altered versions of LSD in the late '60's, and the proverbial "Bad Trips" began.

Link to a Rolling Stone feature on the "King of Acid"

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/owsley-stanley-the-king-of-lsd-20110314

He apparently produced 5 million hits of his LSD and was the standard between '65 and '67.. It's hard to find a true connection between him and the CIA.

Thanks ronisron.

kung boa
04-02-2014, 11:45 PM
Mel Gibson long ago identified the Grateful Dead as British agents.

You mean the actor Mel Gibson?
Got any more info or links?

Edit: Oh yes from Conspiracy theory. I was high last time I saw it so can't remember every line he said.
Would still like more info though.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 01:01 PM
You mean the actor Mel Gibson?
Got any more info or links?

Edit: Oh yes from Conspiracy theory. I was high last time I saw it so can't remember every line he said.
Would still like more info though.

Everything about the Grateful Dead checks out that they may be British agents. Hank Harrison was manager
and he is back and forth to the UK frequently in his bio, as is his daughter Courtney Love , visiting/living with him on and off in
the UK, and Harrison boasts of having attended and helped organize the British Rolling Stones appearance at Altamont
and later helped Beatles George Harrison introduce the Hells Angels first chapter to England.
I think the fact that the Grateful Dead were British agents was mentioned in Conspiracy Theory for a reason.
It makes more sense that Britain would be behind the mass-LSD distribution program, actually, because the British
elite would have seen the society of 1960's America as hostile to their interests, an uppity former colony with
class aspirations, entirely too much prosperity etc.

You should watch Conspiracy Theory again, its an amazing thing to watch today, compared to when it first came out in 1997, when most people had no clue what was going on there. It even has some mk ultra torture shit going on in the closed and abandoned wing of a mental institution.

video:
Conspiracy Theory movie - Illuminati Mind Control and MK Ultra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6KctnOYCVo

you can see the flashing light hypnosis used in the above video , similar to
what was done to River Phoenix in My Own Private Idaho, anyone remember
the scene where River Phoenix is taken to a homosexual client's hotel room for sex
and the client turns out to be an insider who hypnotizes River by dancing around
with a table lamp and blocking then revealing the light for a strobe effect and
River Phoenix goes into a narcoleptic sleep while watching him?
After Phoenix is hypnotized the client has his way with him together with
his pimp Keanu Reeves (why they would want to hypnotize Phoenix into an alter first,
before sex , is anyone's guess. Maybe the client had some particularly nasty tastes in sadomasochism etc.
and this was done to create a compliant slave)

It is hinted at earlier in the film that Phoenix is afraid of this client, and Phoenix
avoids him initially.

Also there is a scene in Private Idaho where River Phoenix's father/brother
(Phoenix is the product of incest between his brother and mother, the same who gets
placed into a mental institution when River is still a toddler) serves River and his pimp Keanu
sandwiches, and Keanu jokingly says "look Mike, sandwiches" He pronounces it like
Sand Witches. "Look, Mike, sand witches." Not sure what Van Sant was driving at with that, some occult Oz reference
maybe.

Found this on the original 1939 Wizard of Oz movie:

QUOTE:
http://www.filmsite.org/wiza4.html

Toto leaps out from the hamper/basket [for the second time in the film] and successfully runs out the door of the castle room as Dorothy screams encouragingly: "Run Toto, Run!" Nikko gives chase and castle guards toss their spears [accompanied by the second part of Mendelssohn's Three Fantasies or Caprices (Opus 16, No. 2) on the soundtrack]. Her dog runs down the staircase and scampers over the drawbridge to the outer embankment: "He got away!" Exasperated, the Witch threatens that time will soon run out for Dorothy. She has only has a short time longer to live - the time it will take for the red sand [symbolic of Dorothy's blood?] in a large hourglass timer to reach the bottom bulb.

http://thehazards.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hourglass-300x220-1.gif
"Look, Mikey, sand witches!"
http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252f24e98b44d5.gif


Red Barn crashed to the ground at beginning of My Own Private Idaho
(Wizard of Oz reference to Kansas farm house in Wizard of Oz tornado)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mdfpuwUhKzY/Ub5XrWHpWvI/AAAAAAAADn0/0XFFZzAZ_sI/s640/MOPI+crop+1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kDRIgR2lSis/Ub5Xtqg5lTI/AAAAAAAADn8/c1JbQf4XzW4/s640/MOPI+crop+2.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Di81u-dwi8w/Ub5Xu-3RYUI/AAAAAAAADoE/ZsSj4POkkPE/s640/MOPI+crop+3.jpg

ronisron
05-02-2014, 02:04 PM
Using Conspiracy Theory as proof of something may not be the best idea. It's a movie, designed to titillate, and entertain. It was a movie aimed SPECIFICALLY at "conspiracy theorists". We're supposed to take everything in it as gospel.

The thing about that movie is they do use accepted theories, then they throw in something invalid that feeds an idea. I watched it, I remember thinking "Very clever". They want to hook the people who think outside the box too. The Men Who Stare At Goats comes to mind too. Little bit of this, little bit of that. And some sheer fanasy mixed in.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 02:05 PM
any bets there are some family ties to NSA military intelligence etc.
in these bands?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Kansas-dust-in-the-wind.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1v_1_hhWp84/TJL-JZ2j9WI/AAAAAAAADjg/eua3QoyIs3g/s1600/toto-superhits.jpg

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 02:38 PM
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/56/86/fd/5686fdf84452aa0034515c9ef03ede39.jpg
Gargoyles hour glass from Wizard of Oz

This site finds a few Wizard of Oz parallels in Nirvana's
Heart Shaped Box video:

http://nwalshbmetca2media.blogspot.ca/2011/09/research-into-existing-products-nirvana.html

Another bright flash of light transitions the shot into a long shot of a field full of poppies, this is said to be a reference to the poppy field used in the Wizard of Oz. The shot is very colourful, with a bright blue sky, red poppies and yellow hills. We can see an old frail man, the same one on the hospital bed, picking up poppies, whilst wearing a Santa hat. We see another cross, a solid one made of old wood, with a ladder leading up onto it, to the left of the shot. We then see a mid low angle shot, that’s blurred, of the old man picking poppies.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sfyRoTKtvf0/TpyeDZAdZbI/AAAAAAAAAMg/kGhYRnFLwu8/s320/nn.png

With a bright flash of light we see a long shot of the young girl stood in a black costume as she points like the grim reaper to the man in the hospital bed. We then see a close up of a foetus in the IV drip of the man in the bed, it could refer to the Wicked Witches hourglass in the Wizard of Oz which almost killed Dorothy, and the IV drip is the hourglass killing the foetus.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_JWj8KySCe8/Tpyhna-DXXI/AAAAAAAAANw/2fVyyQc1dZM/s320/nn.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xc1UrvA2TdY/Tpyh01UktVI/AAAAAAAAAN4/DUmiFO7njGE/s320/nn1.jpg

ronisron
05-02-2014, 02:50 PM
Weird little sidetrack, stay with me.

I was looking at Yahoo today and saw the "Trending now" had the name Mia Talerico. Being a music fan and formerly a big fan of Steven Tyler, I know his real name is Tallarico, and he has a daughter named Mia Tallarico. I assumed a misspelling occurred.

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080818/293.Tyler.Mia.081808.jpg

She looks a lot like her half sister, Liv Tyler, they have different mothers.

But no, it's about a little five year old named Mia Talerico, who's an actress on a Disney show, and she's receiving death threats.

http://data2.whicdn.com/images/49752652/large.jpg

(Is it just me, or does she look a little like Britney Spears?)

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/02/04/mia-talerico-death-threats-disney-good-luck-charlie/

"Mia began receiving these hateful threats in Jan. 2013. The threats contained in the police documents obtained by TMZ are pretty graphic, so beware.

One threat read “Die Mia, F—ing Die in hell! Kill yourself, you deserve to die.” The suspect also sent Mia a picture of her own head “with a bloody fist covering it” with the message “Yes, kill you stupid b—-.”

In the article there's also a little video blurb, showing how the little show she is on has recently introduced a same sex couple..... anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Luck_Charlie (Wiki entry about the show just in case any names jump out.)

Back in the 1970's, Steven Tyler had a teenaged girlfriend, that he lived with. Her parents signed over legal guardianship to him so they could live together (he was 27 or 28 at the time.... VERY Jimmy Page) and in his awful autobiography "Does the Noise in My Head Bother You" he admits there was a nasty abortion with her.

http://media.silive.com/entertainment_impact_home/photo/10112120-large.jpg

Around the time that this book came out, another strange book came out called "Steven Tyler's Secret Past (the truth about Julia Holcomb, and the Whitey Bulger connection)”

http://www.lulu.com/ca/en/shop/bobby-fontaine/steven-tylers-secret-past-the-truth-about-julia-holcomb-and-the-whitey-bulger-connection/paperback/product-16355084.html

She wrote an article which came out when Tyler was an American Idol judge.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/testimonies/2155-The-Light-of-the-World---the-Steven-Tyler-and-Julia-Holcomb-story

From the article;

"It was the fall of 1975. We returned to our apartment in Boston, and within a few weeks he was touring with his band. I was alone and pregnant in the apartment with no money, no education, no prenatal care, no driver’s license and little food.

Steven would call me every day to check in with me and I asked him for money to get groceries. He promised to send Ray Tabano over the next day to take me shopping. Ray was a childhood friend of Steven’s and had been a guitar player in the original band. I remember waiting by the window for Ray to arrive. He came to the apartment and I let him in through the front door.

The next thing I remember was waking up in a cloud of dense smoke fighting for air to breathe. Ray was gone. I fell to the floor from the couch in the front room. The couch was not burning and I had no burns on my body, but thick black smoke was consuming the room. The smoke was less dense on the floor, but still, I could barely see.

I was frightened but calm enough to think about a series of commercials that Bill Cosby had done called, Learn Not To Burn. One message had been, if you’re in a smoke-filled room, get down on the floor because the air is clearer on the floor. I knew I only had minutes to get out of that apartment. I crawled to the front door, which was next to the couch I had been laying on. The apartment had at least three locks on the front door. There was a keyed lock on the handle, a dead bolt and a security bar that angled from the door down to the floor. Steven insisted on keeping these locked at all times because he usually kept drugs in the house and he had suffered a break-in at our previous apartment on Beacon Street. All of the locks were secured and I could not budge the security bar. I was choking and knew I needed to head for the back stairway that led down to the kitchen and an outside exit."

She then details Steven essentially forcing her to get an abortion.


The man who wrote the book made some interesting claims about Tyler; one that he was from a CIA family in Virginia, and his name is not "Tallarico", that the Tallarico's were a family that Steven was sent to live with to appear to have a stable family life and upbringing, as Steven was essentially bred to be in the entertainment business. He says Steven is also Sicilian, and the connections in New York and Boston enabled Aerosmith to get the backing they needed.

Yikes.... an addendum, Tyler would like Johnny Depp to play him in a movie.

Mia Talerico/Mia Tallarico, Steven Tyler, death threats, abortions, and CIA. All in one read. Why are they threatening to kill a five year old with the same name as Steven Tyler's daughter and who looks a lot like Britney Spears?

ronisron
05-02-2014, 02:59 PM
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/56/86/fd/5686fdf84452aa0034515c9ef03ede39.jpg
Gargoyles hour glass from Wizard of Oz

This site finds a few Wizard of Oz parallels in Nirvana's
Heart Shaped Box video:

http://nwalshbmetca2media.blogspot.ca/2011/09/research-into-existing-products-nirvana.html

Another bright flash of light transitions the shot into a long shot of a field full of poppies, this is said to be a reference to the poppy field used in the Wizard of Oz. The shot is very colourful, with a bright blue sky, red poppies and yellow hills. We can see an old frail man, the same one on the hospital bed, picking up poppies, whilst wearing a Santa hat. We see another cross, a solid one made of old wood, with a ladder leading up onto it, to the left of the shot. We then see a mid low angle shot, that’s blurred, of the old man picking poppies.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sfyRoTKtvf0/TpyeDZAdZbI/AAAAAAAAAMg/kGhYRnFLwu8/s320/nn.png

With a bright flash of light we see a long shot of the young girl stood in a black costume as she points like the grim reaper to the man in the hospital bed. We then see a close up of a foetus in the IV drip of the man in the bed, it could refer to the Wicked Witches hourglass in the Wizard of Oz which almost killed Dorothy, and the IV drip is the hourglass killing the foetus.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_JWj8KySCe8/Tpyhna-DXXI/AAAAAAAAANw/2fVyyQc1dZM/s320/nn.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xc1UrvA2TdY/Tpyh01UktVI/AAAAAAAAAN4/DUmiFO7njGE/s320/nn1.jpg

"Heart-Shaped Box"

She eyes me like a Pisces when I am weak
I've been locked inside your heart-shaped box for weeks
I've been drawn into your magnet tar-pit trap
I wish I could eat your cancer when you turn black

Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Your advice

Meat-eating orchids forgive no one just yet
Cut myself on angel's hair and baby's breath
Broken hymen of your highness I'm left back
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back

Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Your advice

She eyes me like a Pisces when I am weak
I've been locked inside your heart-shaped box for weeks
I've been drawn into your magnet tar-pit trap
I wish I could eat your cancer when you turn black

Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice
Hey! Wait!
I've got a new complaint
Forever in debt to your priceless advice

Your advice [x3]"

Nevermind is weird, so was Bleach, but In Utero was very dark in spots. It's far from a failure commercially, and the Unplugged which followed is one of the best MTV did, with Nirvana's version of "Man Who Sold The World" being a significant hit,

There are some similarities between OZ and the Heart Shaped Video. Good catch. Kurt's "smile" at the end is very enigmatic to say the least.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 03:58 PM
the threats to kill the little girl sound possibly bogus to me, its like a rehash of the fake cover story for the death of JonBenet . The sect's tactics are always to try to shift blame elsewhere. Now that the truth about JonBenet and Columbine (http://letsrollforums.com/jon-benet-ramsey-case-t29218.html)etc. are emerging they insert some probably fake crap like this, and like the possibly/probably staged fake Madeleine McCann docudrama. Its almost like they have some agency which regularly manufacture pulp news filler to distract everyone, and get everyone barking up the wrong tree.
This is like an extension of Sandy Hook, presumably the same mental disease which made a 'child hater' materialize from out of nowhere and shoot innocents at Sandyhook right at Christmas time (tailored perfectly for all the fat Walmart lesbian momma grizzlies who watch CNN between Ellen and Oprah.)
When will they come up with some bogus diagnosis or disorder for labeling 'child haters' , and claim it is some societal trend etc. Or maybe an ism , even better.
Childism. Childophobia. Whatever the fuck crazy direction they want to steer the societal pig herd.

ronisron
05-02-2014, 04:50 PM
Aerosmith is connected to Whitey Bulger, he recently convicted of assorted different crimes after years on the run. They are connected through Frank Connolly, who was a Boston Irish gangster that was their first manager until he sold their contract to New York based Jewish management team Leber-Krebs (a name that literally translates to Liver - Cancer in German).

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/mob_bosses/james_whitey_bulger/index.html

" Under the FBI's wing as a prized TE (Top Echelon Informant), Bulger became Boston's top organized crime boss, more powerful than even the Mafia. Bulger and his FBI handlers orchestrated the crippling of the local mob family, which allowed him to take over a large chunk of the Boston rackets. Murders would accumulate under his reign, 18 in all. With the FBI clearing the field for him, he expanded his operations in loan-sharking, drug dealing, extortion, and money laundering, mimicking what the Mafia had done before him. For over 20 years, the FBI looked the other way when it came to Bulger, and whenever they learned that other law-enforcement agencies were investigating their old pal Whitey, they gave him a heads-up.

With unusual cunning and intelligence and a predator's instinct for survival, Whitey Bulger ruled the Boston underworld from the late seventies to the mid-nineties. Thanks to his guardian angels at the Boston office of the FBI, he had a long and violent run."

In Aerosmith's autobiography Walk This way, they loosely talk about Frank's connections to organized crime.

meek
05-02-2014, 05:44 PM
Well, when I was younger, a lot of my heroes were junkies. Logical conclusion? Must take heroin. Most of my heroes had androgynous aspects to their appearance. I took note. The videos and trade magazines sold a certain aspect, not to mention the various biographies and legends around Zeppelin, the Stones, the Beatles, the Doors, Black Sabbath, David Bowie, Iggy.... I took note. Crowley seemed important, flirtations with the dark side of the occult appeared to be of significance too. "Went down to the crossroads...." You posted the lyrics to Sympathy For The Devil, again I was taking notes. I was a student of the game as it was laid out, so to speak, I'm sure most of my peers were too. Not to mention the extreme arrogance of youth and the glory of "when you know everything" -- do you remember being 20? Smartest person in the world.:D

The music scene is a nightmare. My band had opened and closed Music West '95 in Vancouver (the Foo Fighters debuted there) and we were shopping demos, winning local radio competitions, playing gigs -- onward and upward. We had a meeting at a Feldman & Associates office in Gastown, and the agent we interviewed with talked a lot about my "look". A few more pleasantries were exchanged and for some reason I was compelled to say "Man, I'm willing to kiss a little ass, but I am not sucking anybody's dick." To which the agent smiled and said "You'll never get anywhere with an attitude like that". That was June '95. My son was born in July, by September, I left the band after realizing that my talent, and my ability to write songs meant absolutely, or next to, nothing. It was all nepotism. My son being born essentially disintegrated my ego too. Love of that nature supercedes. And that was what really moved me away from playing music in that way, or pursuing "stardom". I wanted to change me for him. Ironically, he's a very talented musician, and wants to try to make music.... to which I explained my wholehearted opposition.

I felt a real affinity for Cobain, I thought some of their videos from that first record were very hilarious, there was a very sarcastic sense of humor there, and Kurt is/was 5 days younger than me. I felt bad for him when he died, all the things that were happening to him and when he was found dead the first thing I thought was that Axl Rose had him murdered. Truth. That was my first thought. My GF said no it was suicide.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but my feeling is he was just a kid from Redneckville WA (which is EVERYWHERE outside of SeaTac) who was a "student of the game" and got in way over his head. He knew the game, for sure. Some of us move forward still thinking we can handle anything that comes our way.... and wind up in a staged suicide a few years down the road.

Wow, Thanks for sharing that. I wish you the best success in ushering your son past this phase of wanting to "make it" in the music industry.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 06:19 PM
Given the resources put behind promoting Nirvana (all the magazine cover spots, television appearances, etc. ) , the followup to Nevermind (In Utero)
was a huge sales flop, and the tour for the record was even more of a failure.
At the time of the release of 'In Utero' The word was out , especially in the hiphop community and heavy metal community, at a time when hiphop was becoming the dominant musical force, that Nirvana was in with R.E.M. and the whole 'alternative' movement.

Cobain had also gone to war with Pearl Jam , Guns n' Roses, Van Halen, you name it, Nirvana's name was mud in the rock world. Cobain was even at war with his own band mates during the In Utero tour. All of this thanks to Courtney Love. Cobain was becoming a lightning rod for the backlash against political correctness and the whole 'alternative' movement. ( Courtney had even insisted that Dave and Krist travel on a separate tour bus from theirs while she battled them for the royalties from Nevermind)

The only thing which rescued the dismal sales of In Utero was Cobain's death six months after its release. The In Utero tour was a disaster, with parts of the Europe leg canceled due to Cobain overdose, and struggled to fill the larger venues in North America. Some of the shows were moved to smaller halls due to poor ticket sales. It was one of the main reasons that Cobain was pressured to do MTV Unplugged against his will. Geffen told Cobain that MTV was threatening to boycott all Geffen artists if Nirvana did not appear on MTV Unplugged.
A lot of people were pissed off that Cobain had killed off commercial hair metal like Van Halen and Def Leppard, and then abandoned ship (putting out the depressing , self-obsessed In Utero album about his laxatives and his rape and his posture etc.) ditching Lollapalooza and then trying to back out of MTV Unplugged, while hip-hop/rap continued to flourish on MTV and supplant them all, of course. A lot of industry people were understandably upset that Kurtney had spearheaded a huge societal rejection of so many of their products, and on top of all that were daring to duck out on their own label.

In Utero got great, great big coordinated industry push its first week out, made its sputtering fast start (only on the basis/fame of Nevermind) and then immediately sank. It could generate no organic sales momentum of its own. Geffen Records refused to release
the original version of In Utero and demanded that it either be redone completely or at least cosmetically and radically revamped,
remixed, etc. Cobain flat out stated that he'd intentionally put out a commercially unappealing record, and In Utero would have done
even worse if Geffen REcords had not intervened)
Pearl Jam was eating Nirvana's lunch and lambasting Nirvana every inch of Pearl Jam's way to the top of the charts.

REad the following article on what was happening then:


http://www.mulevariations.com/features/day-alternative-music-died


The Myth of Nirvana and the Death of Alternative Music

Nirvana released its second major label album, In Utero, on Sept. 21, 1993. Despite a flurry of positive reviews (many from critics looking to atone for the lack of foresight in their largely tepid Nevermind reviews – Rolling Stone followed up its 3 star review of Nevermind with a 4 ½ star review of In Utero), sales of In Utero were sluggish out of the gate. The album was certified platinum in November, but failed to go multi-platinum until after Cobain’s death the following April, a huge disappointment given the hype surrounding the release (and in comparison to the 5 million copies Nevermind had sold to date). In marked contrast, Pearl Jam’s second album, Vs., released just one month later, sold 950,378 copies in its first week of release, setting a new record for opening sales and topping the combined sales of the rest of Billboard’s top ten that week (a list which included In Utero). Vs. was certified 5x multi-platinum by the end of 1993, and its record-breaking commercial success further highlighted In Utero’s relative commercial failure.

The parallel rises of Nirvana and Pearl Jam, and their close association as breakthrough alternative grunge bands form Seattle, had caused some tension between the two bands. In a 1992 interview, Kurt Cobain said, “I have strong feelings towards Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains and bands like that. They’re obviously just corporate puppets that are just trying to jump on the alternative bandwagon - and we are being lumped into that category. Those bands have been in the hairspray/cock-rock scene for years and all of a sudden they stop washing their hair and start wearing flannel shirts. It doesn’t make any sense to me.” Cobain conveniently overlooked the fact that both Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains’ major label debuts had preceded Nirvana’s. And although “Smells Like Teen Spirit” had been the catalyst for the big breakthrough, it was Eddie Vedder’s flannel shirt/camo shorts look from the “Alive” video (also filmed prior to the release of Nevermind or “Smells Like Teen Spirit”) that became the fashion staple of the grunge movement that swept the nation in 1992-93. And Vedder supplemented that look with what came to be the defining grunge attitude in his breakout video performance for “Even Flow.” As of March, 1994, Pearl Jam’s records had outsold Nirvana’s 11 million to 6 million, and it was Pearl Jam whose album remained in the top 10 while Nirvana was beginning to look like a one hit wonder. Given the revisionist history spewed by the rock pundits over the last decade and a half it may be hard to believe, but by early 1994 Pearl Jam, not Nirvana, was clearly America’s biggest new rock band.




Eddie Vedder circa 1992



An objective assessment of Nirvana’s career became virtually impossible in the aftermath of Cobain’s tragic death in April 1994. Sales of Nirvana’s records were immediately reinvigorated – In Utero went from certified platinum to 4x multi-platinum in the year after Cobain’s suicide, obscuring its initial sales disappointment and making it a bona fide hit. Sales of Nevermind, which had finally slowed, picked up again as well. The posthumous release of Nirvana’s sublime MTV Unplugged performance was an instant hit. Bleach, Nirvana’s lone Sub Pop release, and Incesticide, a collection of rarities and b-sides, released in 1989 and 1992 respectively, both went platinum in early 1995. In fact, more Nirvana records were purchased between April 1994 and April 1995 (10 million) than had been purchased during Cobain’s entire lifetime (6 million). The title “Spokesman of Generation X,” which had been shelved in the wake of In Utero’s initial failure, was resurrected and printed on tens of thousands of commemorative t-shirts. Courtney Love, Cobain’s widow, spoke to standing ovations across the country, standing in for her husband on the Lollapalooza festival circuit, which Nirvana had been scheduled to headline that year. The legend-making machine, one part genuine respect and one part opportunistic consumerism, was in full swing. Incredibly, since April of 1994, Nirvana and Pearl Jam have sold an identical 19 million albums, even though Nirvana has recorded no new material while Pearl Jam has released seven new studio albums, six live albums, and two compilations during that time.

In the wake of Kurt Cobain’s death, Nirvana came to be seen, by music fans and executives alike, not as part of the larger alternative scene, but as the embodiment of the alternative sound and ethos. This flawed perspective had a profound effect on the ongoing evolution of alternative music from underground to mainstream. As the record industry scrambled to capitalize on Cobain’s iconic popularity, they began to sign and promote male-fronted bands whose abrasive sound and adherence to a vague “anti” ethos seemed to echo Nirvana’s. These bands were immediately slapped with the “alternative” tag, regardless of any affiliation they may or may not have had with the alternative scene itself. The fact that they could be marketed in the Nirvana mold was enough to merit the tag. Alternative music, once a scene that had contained countless genres and been identified by its lack of mainstream success, was being quickly converted by the record industry machine into a specific stylistic genre, chosen from its place among the others precisely because of its perceived mainstream appeal. “Angsty” male-fronted bands from the alternative scene that fit the profile, like Stone Temple Pilots, Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Rage Against the Machine, and Live, were vaulted to the forefront. And the advent of Green Day, Collective Soul, Candlebox, The Offspring, Bush, Silverchair, Nickelback, Matchbox Twenty, and Creed, new alternative genre bands with no discernable connection to the underground alternative scene, were a sign of the times. Their astronomical sales figures made it easy to ignore the increased homogenization of the sound and the lack of creative imagination pervading the genre that was increasingly coming to embody “alternative music.”




Right back at ya, Offspring



By 1996, street credibility was hard to come by in the alternative music market. Perry Farrell did not participate in the organization of the Lollapalooza festival that year, and his successors chose mainstream hard rockers Metallica to headline the tour, further blurring the definition of alternative music and confusing the festival’s core fan base who had come of age despising bands like Metallica. Even KROQ concert bills were beginning to reflect the changing tide, tapping Bush and The Presidents of the United States of America as co-headliners for their year-end concerts in both 1995 and 1996. Alternative radio itself embraced the growing popularity of the alternative genre, updating its playlists to reflect the ongoing changes. Alanis Morissette’s requisite angst garnered her admission to the alternative genre boys club, but by the time she was joined on the charts in 1997 by the women of Lilith Fair, the alternative genre itself was almost completely played out. Music executives had sought to cash in on Nirvana’s popularity by signing and promoting acts that seemed to follow their stylistic lead. But their strategy had backfired; by limiting their definition of alternative music to one homogenous sound, they had made overexposure inevitable and had hastened alternative music’s demise. Had Cobain lived and his legacy been left unexploited, it is certainly possible that a more diverse and sustainable alternative music would have naturally risen to popular ascendancy. But as it was, alternative music’s popular ascendancy proved short-lived. And by 1997 (just four years after the alternative scene’s commercial breakthrough) when the Lollapalooza tour was cancelled, Spin magazine was already able to say, “Lollapalooza is as comatose as alternative rock right now.”



The Legacy of Alternative Music’s Demise

By the mid-1990s, Nirvana-inspired alternative genre rock had become so singularly identifiable as popular rock that its demise in the late 90s left the popular rock music industry in an unparalleled identity crisis that has continued to this day. Many alternative rock radio stations still can’t decide if they are supposed to play the latest underground indie rock or “oldies” from the alternative heyday. Mainstream rock radio is even more confused, mining each new trend for a possible successor to alternative music as the popular rock standard bearer. Limp Bizkit style “rap-core” was a short-lived phenomenon. The almost comically contradictory named “indie pop,” exemplified by The Strokes and The Killers, has had some minimal popular success. The “pop emo” of bands like Dashboard Confessional and Fall Out Boy was a fleeting trend. And a few erstwhile alternative genre dinosaurs like Nickelback continue to sell records. But for the most part, the popular charts are devoid of rock artists; they are dominated by pop, hip hop, and country. Rock is in danger of losing its seat at the popular music table. The era of the Rock Star has largely passed; U2 does continue to tour arenas, unwilling or unable to fully cede the stage to their lone aspirant successor, Coldplay, who -- tellingly -- was the only relevant rock band to finish with an album in Billboard’s year-end top 20 for 2008. The fact that the other three rock acts with albums in the 2008 year-end top 20 (The Eagles, AC/DC, and Metallica) were decades beyond their relevance was a foreboding sign for the future of popular rock music. The 2009 charts hardly looked any better for rock’s popular future, with only Kings of Leon joining old-timers U2 and Nickelback in Billboard’s year-end top 20. Even veterans (and one-time bankable commodities) Green Day and Dave Matthews Band failed to crack the 2009 year-end Top 20 with their new releases.

The good news for rock fans is that new and exciting rock music of the highest quality is still being made. In a seeming regeneration of the alternative scene of the 80s, a thriving and diverse underground indie scene has been developing for over a decade. And as major labels have increasingly abandoned the business of signing new underground acts (due to both budget constraints and short-sightedness), a new generation of indie labels has emerged to fill the void. However, chart-topping success and the cover of Rolling Stone are not typically goals of indie rock bands. Major labels are seen (with good reason) as predatory and controlling, and thus major label deals are seen as far less desirable than indie deals or even no deal at all. Besides, it can be argued that the advent of iPods and downloads has rendered record sales, radio play, pop charts and the other traditional measures of success virtually irrelevant. In addition, access to international distribution via the internet and inexpensive recording have ushered in an era of unprecedented autonomous creative control for artists, and giving up this control to attain the potential mainstream success possible on a major label is almost universally perceived as selling out, even for the most revered and archetypal indie bands (see the indie backlash against Death Cab for Cutie’s 2004 major label deal and subsequent album Plans).




Sell-outs?



The roots of today’s indie skepticism can also be traced to Nirvana and Pearl Jam. On the heels of Kurt Cobain’s disillusionment with rock stardom and subsequent suicide, the most important (and artistically credible) rock stars began eschewing mainstream popular success. Pearl Jam’s third album, Vitalogy, sold 877,000 copies in its first week of release, second only to their previous album Vs. in all-time opening week sales. But their commercial success belied a growing opposition to commercialism. In 1993, the band refused to make videos for the singles on Vs. “Ten years from now, I don't want people to remember our songs as videos,” explained bassist Jeff Ament. Beginning in 1994, they launched a four-year long boycott of Ticketmaster in opposition to what they perceived to be exorbitant fees and ticket prices, effectively keeping them from large scale North American touring during that time. While their boycott inspired few other popular acts to join in the fight, it was widely admired as an example of putting principle before paycheck. Their subsequent albums were seen as intentional departures from the sound that had made them the world’s biggest selling band. They engaged in fewer promotional campaigns. They granted fewer interviews with the press. And their sales dropped accordingly. But they were making the music they wanted to make the way they wanted to make it. By the new millennium, what had once been the biggest band in the world was, for the first time, almost universally perceived as having achieved indie credibility. This “anti-rock star” ethos was subsequently embraced by Radiohead, Pearl Jam’s logical successor to the throne of alternative royalty. And it has become the norm for nearly every subsequent indie band.

However, in 2010 there are signs that some indie rock may have (and even be aspiring to) a mainstream audience. Vampire Weekend’s Contra opened the year atop the Billboard charts. In May, indie darlings The National debuted at #3 with High Violet, marrying the two increasingly disparate worlds of critical acclaim and popular success. The following week Band of Horses debuted at #7 with Infinite Arms. And indie royalty Arcade Fire subsequently hit #1 on both sides of the Atlantic with The Suburbs, an album that received even more critical acclaim than High Violet. These are potentially important developments for rock music and for the culture at large. The potential disappearance of rock music from the popular music palette could be seen as a mere stylistic footnote; styles of popular music have changed from one to another as long as there has been popular music. But rock music has been much more than simply a musical style – it has repeatedly proven itself capable of being a bearer of ideas. The moment Bob Dylan plugged in at Newport, rock music became a catalyst for ideas, an art form capable of saying something substantive to the culture at large. As Allen Ginsburg noted, Dylan took popular rock music from “moon/June/spoon/I love you – high school romance stereotypes – to psychological investigations into the nature of consciousness itself.” Ginsburg saw the popularization of art via rock music, “art on the jukebox” he called it, as “quite a cultural advance.” Dylan paved the way for rock music to become the social, moral, political, philosophical, and intellectual language and conscience of young America. Popular rock music became the platform from which artists with ideas as varied as John Lennon, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Marvin Gaye, Roger Waters, Johnny Rotten, Bruce Springsteen, Bono, Kurt Cobain, Thom Yorke, and Win Butler could inform and influence the public consciousness. And if the introduction of a new depth of ideas into popular culture via rock music was a cultural advance, surely its disappearance from the popular music landscape could be seen as a sign of cultural regression. We can only hope that it is not.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 06:41 PM
Something tells me it was Courtney Love who was brilliiant enough to insist this be marketed:

http://cdn.rockabilia.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/300x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/TSHIRT/38380B.JPG

Like I said before, Courtney Love glommed the the majority of the Nevermind royalties for Cobain through legal action against Krist and Dave, claiming that Cobain created the songs and was entitled to most of the money, which of course raises the question of why she would be so greedy. Courtney Love and Cobain (Kurtney) won in court, but Nirvana was set for life to be a stadium act and make plenty, plenty , plenty of money for the next twenty years.... it doesn't make sense that Kurtney would mess with success and risk the breakup of the band, killing the golden goose, etc.
It seems like Courtney Love may have known that Nevermind was pretty well the peak , and the end , for Nirvana. She may have known that there would be no twenty years of stadium rock stardom ahead for Cobain and his wife. How did she know? Maybe because she planned to make it happen that way. She was going to destroy Nirvana and destroy Cobain?

Her father , Hank Harrison, makes it clear in his book 'Love Kills' , that it was Courtney Love who convinced Cobain to sue Krist and Dave out of their equal share of Nirvana's royalties. It also raises the alarming issue of to what extent Courtney Love may have planned to destroy Cobain. If Courtney Love knew at the time that their marriage was on the rocks (she was sleeping around on him , from all reports) and that she'd lost interest in him, why would she bother fighting to get Cobain the lion's share of the royalties? They were history, relationship-wise.
Was she planning to be the recipient of those royalties herself? The soul recipient?

joaquinatruth
05-02-2014, 11:03 PM
Listen very closely to Hunka's suppositions, such as "something tells me" or "what may have happened was" (usually followed by an outlandish Gus Van Sant-type of scenario, or even easier, making everything appear that it was Courtney, and Courtney alone who masterminded everything). Classic way of setting up disinformation. Hunka's theories sound remarkably similar to CIA narc Hank Harrison's opines. Nothing but the truth?

As the article he posts above references, it was In Utero's sales that were so disappointing in late 1993 (only a lowly couple of million units moved, as opposed to the five million or so sold, as Nevermind amazingly did). Does this fact point to only Courtney being disappointed and wanting Kurt dead, or could it point to others being upset that the return on their investment wasn't coming in fast enough? 

The article also tries to make it look like Nirvana was losing steam in the public eye circa '93/'94, when the opposite was true. Despite whatever the album sales numbers were, reputation-wise, Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains still had nothing on Nirvana (probably to the chagrin of all of Cobain's numerous 'enemies').

The article makes it appear that not only were In Utero's 'disappointing' sales a HUGE issue (remember, Geffen and Nirvana had a very public row about the marketability of the album BEFORE it even came out), but that perhaps the album and subsequent tour may have been sabotaged as a way of getting back at that rascal Cobain for being such a willful twit and openly & publicly not taking orders to make Nevermind 2, or doing anything else his handlers were telling him to do at that point. Seems like Hunka thinks that Courtney was running all aspects of the Nirvana album-making process and business management? 

Hunka, do you think only Courtney would benefit from Cobain's death and subsequent album sales? (He won't respond directly to this, because he won't respond to any questions that point the finger at anyone other than Courtney, who is, of course, an easy-to-blame, disgusting, stinking whore cunt). 

ronisron
05-02-2014, 11:51 PM
Pearl Jam (Semen) was begat by Mother Love Bone (an erection). It's true. Pearl Jam was formed out of the ashes of a glam rock band.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/27684803/Mother%2BLove%2BBone%2Bmlb.jpg

Eddie Vedder was in a Red Hot Chili Peppers style band in San Francisco prior to ditching the spandex shorts for cargos and flannel.

Alice in Chains, circa 1989, also a glam-my band

http://www.ioffer.com/img/item/200/323/800/alice-in-chains-1989-10-14-tacoma-wa-live-dvd-3e4b4.jpg

Kurt wasn't lying. Mother Love Bone was jeered because they were "true" Seattle vets who were deemed sell outs because they signed a huge major label deal and received a $250,000 bonus in advance of sales. They were all wearing flannel prior to Even Flow by Pearl Jam. Andrew Wood OD'd, and then the Temple Of The Dog tribute to him with Chris Cornell and the guys who became Pearl Jam was released. BTW, Apple, MLB's debut is fantastic. Stargazer, Chloe Dancer, Stardog Champion... great songs. (RIP Landrew.)

As for one hit wonder, they had 3 number ones while Kurt was alive. and one posthumously. Nevermind sold 10,000,000 (diamond status) by the time In Utero came out, and 31,000,000 so far. In Utero sold 3 million while Kurt was alive, 15,000,000 in total, and Unplugged was number 1 but not sure how many was sold before he died, but do know that it was 25,000,000 in total. Their first, Bleach, sold 5,000,000 in total.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/nirvana-album-sales-statistics/

All told, over 110,000,000 albums in total. That's a lot of MONEY.

The problem with Kurt was not about his artistry or potential to sell, it was his increasing reluctance to participate that facilitated his demise. He was worth more being dead. He sold @ 20,000,000 units in total while still alive.

And truth be told, by 1996, hip hop had essentially taken over and hasn't looked back. Vacuous pop is always in fashion too. Hip hop... it costs nothing to make, no musicians required, it's all electronic, and the most popular is just rehashing the same tired theme. Some of it's very good, but in a sense it's non-music.

I think Courtney had the most to benefit from his demise, personally, career wise, financially, the works. She is definitely involved in his death in a very significant way.

hunkahunka
05-02-2014, 11:53 PM
It is not a question of either the CIA killed Cobain or Courtney Love killed Cobain. Courtney Love WAS CIA.
When the fuck will people get the Maxwell Smart/Men In Black stereotype of briefcases, suits and polished black shoes out of their heads and accept that the CIA is not stuck in the fucking 1950's, they look , act, and dress and speak like everyone else. In fact they are often more decadent, drug-addicted, violent and antisocial than everyone else.

If Courtney Love killed him , then the CIA killed him. Believe me, if she killed him she would have done so only with the go-ahead of everyone else invested in the whole sordid circus. She may be disgusting, but she's not stupid enough to go against the grain and kill someone's cash cow. She would be in jail pretty fast in that case.
There is a reason that the murder investigation into Cobain's death has never been re-opened due to 'national security' concerns. If Courtney Love killed him or had him killed on behalf of the CIA , then she will be protected from investigation for the rest of her life. Unless she does something awfully stupid, that is. Stupid enough to piss off anyone powerful enough to throw her in jail.
If the music industry murdered Kurt Cobain, then the CIA murdered Kurt Cobain, because the music industry is owned and controlled by the CIA.
Sumner Redstone is CIA and he owns MTV. Did Courtney Love know anything about the Geffen profits on John Lennon's death? Probably. She was certainly aware of what happened to the air play and the record sales and mystique of the Sex Pistols following the publicity generated by the scandalous Sid Vicious murder-suicide, which was probably staged from start to finish. I happen to suspect that Sid Vicious was murdered and that he did not murder his wife.
Why would anyone care what I happen to suspect or even care what my gut feelings are on anything? Because I put enough work into bringing people information that they might grant me their ear on occasion, and might think my discernment worthy of listening to on that basis alone.
Nothing substitutes for hard work, but I don't exactly have access to the all-seeing-eye of the NSA and its network of informants, reporters, hackers, spyware, spy satellites, tapped telephones, subsidized housing spy cams, bribes, extortions etc in gathering information. I don't claim to know everything. Sometimes all you have to go on are patterns and likelihoods and common sense intuition, and sometimes its enough.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 12:14 AM
Adam Caress was speaking in terms of albums when he said that Nirvana was looking like a one-hit wonder in the six months preceding Kurt Cobain's demise.
They had one huge hit album, and a follow-up album which rode the coat-tails of their one big hit album . A one-hit album wonder. I think he's right.
There were no huge hits on In Utero. Choose which 'song about Cobain' on In Utero was the biggest hit song about Cobain. Pathetic.
Cobain did not even write the lyrics to two of his three biggest hits, and did it ever show on 'In Utero'.

If Cobain had not died, Nirvana would have broken up and been history anyway. They'd be gone and remembered as the band that Pearl Jam and the rappers, and Axl and Van Halen and Def Leppard and everyone else had jeered into oblivion. MTV Unplugged would have been seen as
the sleepy acoustic non event that it really was.

Gene Simmons on Kurt Cobain: "Just because you died that makes you an icon? No"
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/gene-simmons/73041#o5rZOP1o8iWYpIgC.99

joaquinatruth
06-02-2014, 12:40 AM
What the fuck does Gene Simmons' opinion have to do with any of this? He's one of the biggest industry narcs out there, and irrelevant to this. Though he sounds very bitter about Cobain being an icon.

Also, how can you prove Cobain did not write the lyrics?

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 01:21 AM
Also, how can you prove Cobain did not write the lyrics?

I wrote the lyrics when I was 21 and working at the Banff Springs Hotel in Alberta, Canada.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 01:50 AM
Here is Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead speaking about
(whitewashing?) his membership in Bohemian Club/Bohemian Grove:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0UMENa_IAg

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 01:57 AM
Tex Marrs and Freeman discuss:

CIA Operatives: Jerry Garcia & the Grateful Dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunQSK4DaNQ

ronisron
06-02-2014, 05:33 AM
Adam Caress was speaking in terms of albums when he said that Nirvana was looking like a one-hit wonder in the six months preceding Kurt Cobain's demise.
They had one huge hit album, and a follow-up album which rode the coat-tails of their one big hit album . A one-hit album wonder. I think he's right.
There were no huge hits on In Utero. Choose which 'song about Cobain' on In Utero was the biggest hit song about Cobain. Pathetic.
Cobain did not even write the lyrics to two of his three biggest hits, and did it ever show on 'In Utero'.

If Cobain had not died, Nirvana would have broken up and been history anyway. They'd be gone and remembered as the band that Pearl Jam and the rappers, and Axl and Van Halen and Def Leppard and everyone else had jeered into oblivion. MTV Unplugged would have been seen as
the sleepy acoustic non event that it really was.

Gene Simmons on Kurt Cobain: "Just because you died that makes you an icon? No"
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/gene-simmons/73041#o5rZOP1o8iWYpIgC.99

hunka, what's up? This is sheer revisonism. As I pointed out, Nevermind was #1, In Utero was # 1, and Unplugged was #1, all while he was alive. That's a three hit wonder, which is pretty much all you need to classify as bona fide. Nevermind, 10,000,000 while he was alive, In Utero, 3,000,000, and Unplugged was huge out of the gate, and sold between 5-7 million. It contained songs from in Utero, notably All Apologies.

Pennyroyal Tea, Serve the Servants, All Apologies, Heart Shaped Box, Scentless Apprentice..... that's 5 great songs from In Utero. If you don't like it, that's fine but don't assume to speak for the entire record buying public. I posted their sales from a sales stats site, it's not a site that's specific to Nirvana. 3,000,000 in sales is a flop? No, not by any standards. I prefer In Utero to Nevermind, which I thought was like an angry Cheap Trick, and there is a resemblance vocally and visually between Kurt and Robin Zander. In Utero caught me right away, especially Scentless Apprentice, a whomping f-ing song that just kicks ass like nothing else they have.

http://i.ticketweb.com/i/00/03/52/33/08_Edp.jpg

Robin Zander -- mess up his hair, sprout some whiskers..... Cobain.

I do like the logic you applied in regards to it being CIA. I wonder if he was put out there just to be killed? Maybe they set him up all around, then offed him because it was the plan all along.

michael337
06-02-2014, 11:58 AM
I stayed at the Banff Springs when I was in the 3rd grade.

My uncle tells me, growing up his friend's dad was manager of the place. There are apparently secret passages all throughout the place. They all lead to a massive tunnel that eventually leads out into the mountains. I know he wasn't lying when he said this.

michael337
06-02-2014, 12:13 PM
I read a couple bio's on Whitey Bulger. A couple points:

The FBI didn't just turn a blind eye; they helped facilitate murders by providing victims' locations, and then covering them up. One agent went down for this, but there were many involved. One of the agent's biggest supporters was Donnie Brasco.

Whitey had a Jesuit priest who was a mentor in Whitey's early years. The priest helped him get an early release. The books mention that Whitey frequently got away with crimes as a teenager, and that there was some hidden hand protecting him; further speculating that it was the Jesuit priest.

Whitey's brother was a major politician, and they helped each other in a lot of ways. His brother was the keynote speaker for Mitt Romney at a convention, while you can hear machines in the background digging up Whitey's victims outside the stadium.

Whitey used to get terrible anxiety leading up to a murder; like it was an itch he had to scratch. Once it was over he'd take a nap and sleep like a baby while his gang cleaned up the mess.

Whitey visited a shrink due to nightmares that he suffered from due to the MK problem. The shrink found the dreams so horrifying that he refused to treat him further.

Whitey was widely suspected to be a homosexual; not just in the underworld, but as an old fugitive, many people who knew his alias thouht that he was coming on to them.

Anyway those are just a few points that I found interesting. Definitely a suspicious story all around.

michael337
06-02-2014, 12:21 PM
Does anyone else suspect that Summer Redstone is related to Arnold Rothstein?

Rothstein was mentor to Lansky and Luciano, and was smuggling mass amounts of heroin into the US via China, well before Prohibition started. One of the biggest underworld figures in history, and his mom's maiden name was Rothschild.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 12:58 PM
I stayed at the Banff Springs when I was in the 3rd grade.

My uncle tells me, growing up his friend's dad was manager of the place. There are apparently secret passages all throughout the place. They all lead to a massive tunnel that eventually leads out into the mountains. I know he wasn't lying when he said this.

Thanks for posting, very interesting , and imo truthful.
That does not surprise me at all. The entire area around Banff is natural geothermal caves, and there was an underground tunnel linking the staff annex building at the Banff Springs Hotel to the main building. The huge hotel laundry room was even deeper underground and it was sweltering hot. The Banff Springs Hotel was one of the original grand old railway hotels which was built after the railways burrowing through the rockies were built. There is definitely something mysterious going on with all those geothermal caves and rail tunnels. The Banff Springs Hotel is part of a network of similar hotels.
I would not be at all surprised to find out that there is a secret underground train which goes there.

I never knew my mother well, she became a devout christian after my parents split up when I was four.
She lived in Calgary and I visited her in Calgary on my way out to Banff to get work. I had called the
Banff Springs Hotel from Winnipeg and arranged to meet someone for a job at the Banff Springs Hotel.
I had been told that there was plenty of work for me and to come out there.
When I visited my mother in Calgary, on my way to Banff, my mother insisted on not only driving me
to Banff, but actually accompanied me to the interview, which I thought odd, as we had never been at all close .
I look back at it now and its almost like she knew something was going on in Banff and I'd better not show
up there alone.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 01:25 PM
No offense intended ronisron, but those industry -generated numbers as of 2014 are, in my opinion, probably as real as Pamela Anderson's boobs,Courtney Love's nose, LaToya Jacksons entir face, and the Sandy Hook Christmas-toddler machine gun massacre.
The PR machine which Courtney Love has been running since Cobain's death to sell product I'm sure would be something to behold were we to see the full glory of all its inner workings. OF COURSE the record industry would lie about the popularity of their product. I was around when In Utero came out, I even bought it out of curiosity about Nirvana, because their success was still a mystery to me after Nevermind (could not figure out what all the fuss around Nirvana was about when I could hear hardly a word of anything they were saying). I still had no clue what they were all about. I was not a big fan who bought magazines and bought Incesticide etc. I was not a collector or what is called a rock officianado by any means, so I bought In Utero because I hoped it would be a fast rocking record similar to Nevermind and hoped that it might flesh out what exactly the whole Nirvana phenom had been about, and I was disappointed. There were no big hits on it. It wasn't THAT bad, but it was disappointing and sad in some ways. The place where I worked, we were on our way driving three of us with the manager in her SUV, I put In Utero into the tape player and the other two employees (one of the them related by family to Ice T etc.) rolled their eyes and scoffed that I was into Nirvana and chortled that I was probably into REM and 'alternative' crap. From my direct experience, and from what I can surmise from what went on with one of Nirvana's enemies so popular at the time, Pearl Jam, it is clear that there was quite an industry-wide , cultural backlash building against Nirvana once their affiliations had been made public. Not just among white rockers, but among the black music scene as well.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 02:38 PM
I stayed at the Banff Springs when I was in the 3rd grade.

My uncle tells me, growing up his friend's dad was manager of the place. There are apparently secret passages all throughout the place. They all lead to a massive tunnel that eventually leads out into the mountains. I know he wasn't lying when he said this.

Interesting , Banff was originally named "Rocky Mountain Park", and is part of Federal Reserve park lands held by the federal government (wildlife reserves)

QUOTE
The area was named Banff in 1884 by George Stephen, president of the Canadian Pacific Railway, recalling his birthplace in Banffshire, Scotland, now simply Banff. The Canadian Pacific built a series of grand hotels along the rail line and advertised the Banff Springs Hotel as an international tourist resort

Banffshire, Scotland, is now known as Banff, Scotland. The long name for it is Banff, Aberdeenshire, UK.

Banff, Scotland is 86 miles NE of Loch Ness.

Interesting links possibly to the Scottish Rite, Loch Ness, and even Aberdeen

ronisron
06-02-2014, 02:42 PM
No offense intended ronisron, but those industry -generated numbers as of 2014 are, in my opinion, probably as real as Pamela Anderson's boobs,Courtney Love's nose, LaToya Jacksons entir face, and the Sandy Hook Christmas-toddler machine gun massacre.
The PR machine which Courtney Love has been running since Cobain's death to sell product I'm sure would be something to behold were we to see the glory of all its inner workings. OF COURSE the record industry would lie about the popularity of their product. I was around when In Utero came out, I even bought it out of curiosity about Nirvana, because their success was still a mystery to me after Nevermind (could not figure out what all the fuss around Nirvana was about when I could hear hardly a word of anything they were saying). I still had no clue what they were all about. I was not a big fan who bought magazines and bought Incesticide etc. I was not a collector or what is called a rock officianado by any means, so I bought In Utero because I hoped it would be a fast rocking record similar to Nevermind and hoped that it might flesh out what exactly the whole Nirvana phenom had been about, and I was disappointed. There were no big hits on it. It wasn't THAT bad, but it was disappointing and sad in some ways. The place where I worked, we were on our way driving three of us with the manager in her SUV, I put In Utero into the tape player and the other two employees (one of the them related by family to Ice T etc.) rolled their eyes and scoffed that I was into Nirvana and chortled that I was probably into REM and 'alternative' crap. From my direct experience, and from what I can surmise from what went on with one of Nirvana's enemies so popular at the time, Pearl Jam, it is clear that there was quite an industry-wide , cultural backlash building against Nirvana once their affiliations had been made public. Not just among white rockers, but among the black music scene as well.

If folks didn't like In Utero, that's fine. I know a lot of people that did/do. You're reading too much into Kurt and his "issues" with other bands. I doubt any of them cared what he hads to say to any great length. Folks aren't going to be swayed by someone's opinion if they already like an artist. They make up their own minds. Of course InUtero sold because of the success of Nevermind, that goes without saying, but I think it would have caught up a year or so later with the public, and it did after All Apologies was featured on the Unplugged album. Some things have to simmer for a while. "No one" liked Led Zeppelin III when it first came out, "no one" liked The White Album when it first came out either. "No one " liked Bob Dylan when he first went electric. Things like that almost become established fact in "music history", when the simple fact is, lots liked the above mentioned. Dylan's best selling period was between 1965-67.

Kurt didn't have a chance to bottom out completely, to experience a career plunge and then resurrection, he was dead before that. He is now iconic. Maybe not to you, but right there with Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix with the guitar sacrifice at Monterey, John Lennon and the "New York City" T- shirt photo is Cobain's face. Right or wrong. Martyred for the cause. The suspicious death only adds to the "legend".

BTW, which of the successful acts aren't "manufactured"? Not too many. Alice in Chains was admittedly an "assembled" band put together by a booking agency. Layne Staley wanted that whole Vampire Lestat - junkie - recluse - rock star image, and he got it. Rotted from the inside out, dopesick and dead for 2 weeks before anyone even noticed.

Anyway, it appears the CIA took hold of the music business to a large degree in the 1960's while conducting a mass experiment involving music, teen agers and LSD. Here's the good acid and peace and love, here's the bad acid, war, death, riots, Charles Manson and Altamont. Let's wrap the '60's up that way, and move on to the "70's, Quaaludes, coke, disco and herpes. The sexual element is tantamount.

kung boa
06-02-2014, 02:46 PM
I read through hole thread without knowing that you hunkahunka wrote the lyrics.
Well better later than never they say...

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 04:59 PM
I read through hole thread without knowing that you hunkahunka wrote the lyrics.
Well better later than never they say...

It was the lyrics thing which sparked my interest in the topic of Cobain in the first place. This thread was sort of an outgrowth of what I had learned while trying to find out what Cobain was up to in 1986.

ronisron
06-02-2014, 05:14 PM
It was the lyrics thing which sparked my interest in the topic of Cobain in the first place. This thread was sort of an outgrowth of what I had learned while trying to find out what Cobain was up to in 1986.

Are you suggesting you wrote Nirvana's lyrics? Because that is exactly what kung boa is saying.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 05:23 PM
You're reading too much into Kurt and his "issues" with other bands. I doubt any of them cared what he hads to say to any great length.

Its not just what Cobain said. The whole movement of grunge shifted the industry backing away from established acts like Guns n' Roses, Van Halen, Def Leppard, Aerosmith Bon Jovi etc. Mainstream radio metal was suddenly passe, and Kurtney was calling everyone in sight sexist , cock rocker, hairspray this homophobe that, redneck this etc. etc. It got so bad that it came to blows with Eddie Vedder vs. Cobain and almost came to blows with Duff McKagan and Krist Novoselic in a parking lot outside the MTV Awards. All of the press (industry) attention was on Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana etc.
A member of Van Halen went back stage to meet Cobain and was snubbed.

Naturally the people under attack felt threatened , but there was nothing that any of them could do about it. THey had nothing to defend against the accusations of them being calculated male slut entertainers out to woo the girlies and pump out vacuous party tunes.

Until of course they heard that on top of it all,(probably all on the 'priceless advice' of Courtney Love) Kurt was going 'alternative' and doing gay rights fundraisers and calling everyone homophobes.
Think that would have given the rockers some ammunition to fight back with? Especially in the arena rock world of bands like Van Halen and Aerosmith and Guns n' Roses et al. No wonder Cobain's nerves were shot. He had to go onstage amid all this industry acrimony, and you can bet it did affect ticket sales for the In Utero tour and did affect sales of In Utero.
The town of Aberdeen recently came close to the removal of the 'Come As You ARe' sign from Aberdeen because
people there resented Cobain calling Aberdeen a town of rednecks

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 05:28 PM
Yes, I wrote the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit and to Come As You ARe in 1986.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 06:57 PM
William Burroughs was in the Illuminates of Thanateros

which was devoted to Chaos magic or Chaos magick

QUOTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic

Chaos Magic

Origins and creation

This magical discipline was first formulated in West Yorkshire, England in the 1970s.[4] A meeting between Peter J. Carroll and Ray Sherwin in Deptford in 1976 has been claimed as the birthplace of chaos magic, and in 1978 Carroll and Sherwin founded the Illuminates of Thanateros (IOT),[4] a chaos magic organization. Liber Null (1978) by Peter J. Carroll further developed this new, experimental perspective on magic. This book and Carroll's Psychonaut (1981) remain important sources.


Can't believe it took me so long to put two and two together.

The Grateful Dead were at the center of the CIA's Operation Chaos.

Mae Brussell wrote the book on Operation Chaos: see this link:

From Monterey Pop to Altamont. OPERATION CHAOS: The CIA's War Against the Sixties Counter-Culture
http://www.whale.to/b/brussell1.html


https://p.gr-assets.com/200x200/scale/books/1266551315/2110105.jpg

http://cdn.realitystudio.org/images/biography/leary.burroughs.jpg
Timothy Leary with William Burroughs
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CRPj7DQ_58g/T8-WLDzAMNI/AAAAAAAABB8/SFALQZ3mDuA/s1600/ken+&+tim.gif
Timothy Leary with Ken Kesey

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1439562.1377722641!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/mick-jagger-william-burroughs.jpg

Robert Anton Wilson (Illuminates of Thanateros) and the Grateful Dead members all spent time at the Esalen Institute
William Burroughs sidekick/handler Allen Ginsberg appeared with the Grateful Dead at this event:

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1383947882785093_tall.jpg


It appears that the Esalen Institute and Illuminates of Thanateros (Chaos Magick) were at the core of Operation Chaos

ronisron
06-02-2014, 09:41 PM
William Burroughs was in the Illuminates of Thanateros

which was devoted to Chaos magic or Chaos magick

QUOTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic

Chaos Magic

Origins and creation

This magical discipline was first formulated in West Yorkshire, England in the 1970s.[4] A meeting between Peter J. Carroll and Ray Sherwin in Deptford in 1976 has been claimed as the birthplace of chaos magic, and in 1978 Carroll and Sherwin founded the Illuminates of Thanateros (IOT),[4] a chaos magic organization. Liber Null (1978) by Peter J. Carroll further developed this new, experimental perspective on magic. This book and Carroll's Psychonaut (1981) remain important sources.


Can't believe it took me so long to put and two together.

The Grateful Dead were at the center of the CIA's Operation Chaos.

Mae Brussell wrote the book on Operation Chaos: see this link:

From Monterey Pop to Altamont. OPERATION CHAOS: The CIA's War Against the Sixties Counter-Culture
http://www.whale.to/b/brussell1.html


https://p.gr-assets.com/200x200/scale/books/1266551315/2110105.jpg

http://cdn.realitystudio.org/images/biography/leary.burroughs.jpg
Timothy Leary with William Burroughs
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CRPj7DQ_58g/T8-WLDzAMNI/AAAAAAAABB8/SFALQZ3mDuA/s1600/ken+&+tim.gif
Timothy Leary with Ken Kesey

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1439562.1377722641!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/mick-jagger-william-burroughs.jpg

Robert Anton Wilson (Illuminates of Thanateros) and the Grateful Dead members all spent time at the Esalen Institute
William Burroughs sidekick/handler Allen Ginsberg appeared with the Grateful Dead at this event:

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1383947882785093_tall.jpg


It appears that the Esalen Institute and Illuminates of Thanateros were at the core of Operation Chaos

It's simple.

Burroughs - CIA trained assassin
Kesey - participant in CIA studies on LSD, gave away LSD during time with the Merry Pranksters, hired the Grateful Dead as the house band for experiments with LSD and psychedelic light shows in San Francisco
Robert Hunter (Grateful Dead) - met Kesesy at the studies
Timothy Leary - Helped conduct theb tests, partcipated in them, wrote a Personality profiling program for the CIA, mentions being inspired by Crowley
Aldous Huxley - "Predicted" the '60's counter culture "revolt" in Brave New World, worked for the Air Ministry, taught Eric Blair (George Orwell) and was associated with Crowley, "The Doors of Perception" inspired the band name "The Doors"
Aleister Crowley - British Intelligence, inspiration to the Beatles, Stones, Jim Morrison, David Bowie, Jimmy Page, Daryl Hall...... "Patron saint" of the tune in, turn on drop out drugs and sex "revolution" of the '60's

Not to mention the '60's musicians who's parents were involved in either NASA themed ops, or high ranking military like Stephen Stills, Frank Zappa, Jim Morrison (father was an Admiral), Jimi Hendrix was ex paratrooper honorably discharged...

Just a few interesting links in the chain. Leary was also actress Winona Ryder's Godfather.... on and on.

I can't recommend Dave McGowan's "Laurel Canyon" series enough. Fantastic insight into the history of the region, and the staggering amount of death surrounding the musicians who lived there.

The '60's were also when the occult/Luciferian/Baphomet worship started being promoted to young people as well.

ronisron
06-02-2014, 09:49 PM
Yes, I wrote the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit and to Come As You ARe in 1986.

TBH... I have no way of disproving this, and you have no easy way of proving it, so I'm going to have to take this at face value. At your word and then move on.

There's a gent who posts on here named Ian2day, who says he's written a number of hit songs inadvertently, because he writes them, and a chip in his head transmits them to other people, who steal them and make hits. Again... "OK, face value". Your story is easier to digest.

michael337
06-02-2014, 10:39 PM
Timothy Leary is Winona Ryder's godfather.

Winona Ryder has every edition of The Catcher in the Rye and is obsessed with it.

She was cast in The Godfather 3, as Michael Corleone's daughter, but became mysteriously ill in Rome and was replaced by Sophia Coppola.

The role was originally given to Julia Roberts, who dropped out, then actress Rebecca Shaeffer, who was murdered, then Winona, before settling on Sophia Coppola.

Rebecca Shaeffer's murderer was an obsessed stalker who had a copy of The Catcher and the Rye on him when killed. But he said he wasn't trying to emulate Mark David Chapman.

The original script for the movie had Michael's son as a naval officer working for the CIA, with Michael Corleone working with the CIA to topple a Central American dictator.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 10:53 PM
TBH... I have no way of disproving this, and you have no easy way of proving it, so I'm going to have to take this at face value. At your word and then move on.

There's a gent who posts on here named Ian2day, who says he's written a number of hit songs inadvertently, because he writes them, and a chip in his head transmits them to other people, who steal them and make hits. Again... "OK, face value". Your story is easier to digest.

Sounds like the girl who appeared a couple of years after I posted my true account of writing the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit claiming also to have written the same lyrics. Typical Courtney Love/Gus Van Sant style disinfo tactics, imo.

Any thorough reader of this thread will recall the whole mess around the book and film 'The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things' and the claim that it was written by JT Leroy, a male 'persona' or alter of purported author Laura Albert, who claims that she does not remember writing her JT Leroy books, as she is in her male alter JT LEroy persona when she writes them, blah blah blah. It sounds like a big pile of misleading bullshit to me.
I stated long ago that I suspect the JT Leroy writings are really the creation of a ghost-writing Gus Van Sant , who is using this bi-gendered Laura Albert nutjob to conceal his identity as the real author.

The screenplay for Gus Van Sant's 2003 film 'Elephant' (about two gay teen lovers shooting up a high school Columbine-style) was also credited to this 'JT LeRoy' .

Gus Van Sant probably wrote The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things, but wanted and needed to distance himself form the controversial content of the book and film , which is about a four year old boy who grows up being shuffled around truck stops by his traveling meth-addicted prostitute mother, who forces him into cross-dressing as a girl and allows him to be repeatedly raped by her boyfriends and clients, and the abused little boy ends up as a gay male prostitute hustler by the age of 15.

Somewhere they must have found this multiple personality disordered (MPD/DID) author Laura Albert to lay claim to having written the stuff, although she can never even remember writing it, and assumes she must have written while in her alter personality.

Just try to make sense of this convoluted gibberish on Wikipedia
about Laura Albert:

Authorship controversy

In a New York magazine article in October 2005, Stephen Beachy suggested that LeRoy was a literary hoax created by Albert.[2] Beachy suggested that Albert was not only LeRoy's friend Emily Frasier, but also Speedie, LeRoy's street-hustling friend, as well as LeRoy himself. Albert has since confirmed that she is the writer behind the LeRoy books.

Investigation showed that the advance for LeRoy's first novel, Sarah, was paid to Laura Albert's sister, JoAnna Albert, and that further payments to LeRoy were made to a Nevada corporation, Underdogs Inc., whose president, Carolyn F. Albert, is Laura Albert's mother.

The New York Times published an article about Disneyland Paris with the JT LeRoy byline in the Sunday magazine T:Travel supplement in September 2005.[3] After the publication of the New York article, the Times found that expense receipts included an Air France itinerary for three people instead of the four described in the article. Employees at Disneyland Paris and two Paris hotels confirmed that the person claiming to be JT LeRoy matched photographs of Laura Albert, who told the employees she was traveling with her husband and son.

On January 9, 2006 an article in the New York Times gave evidence that the role of LeRoy was played publicly by Savannah Knoop, the half-sister of Albert's partner.[4] Geoffrey Knoop later stated Albert was the author of the JT LeRoy works.[5][6] Albert explained the circumstances of JT's existence in a Fall 2006 Paris Review interview with Nathaniel

Not only do they have an MPD nutjob author involved in this project, they have someone else showing up dressed up as JT LeRoy, a woman dressed as a man,who is not even Laura Albert.

It just sounds like typical convoluted crap these creeps get up to with way too much time on their hands. Courtney Love was even photographed with someone posing as JT LeRoy.(Savannah Knoop)

http://i.usatoday.net/life/_photos/2007/06/22/leroyx.jpg
The author formally known as JT Leroy, right, attends a party with Courtney Love


So Courtney Love is hardly new to this whole game. At a guess Courtney Love helped set all this up as a favor to friend Gus Van Sant. The whole object appears to be to just muddy the waters with such a confusing mess
that people give up trying to sort it all out. Gus Van Sant hides his identity
behind all of this goop, so no one notices what he's really into.
He also wrote the screenplay for 'My Own Private Idaho', which delved into much similar material , sanitized in a way that 'The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things' never had to be, since it was purportedly written by a woman.

Anyway, in this same vein, a couple of years after I started making some real headway into researching and proving the truth
of my account of the true story behind the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit, from out of nowhere came this high-profile
nutjob who created an entire web site about how she had written Smells Like Teen Spirit. I suspect that Courtney Love may be
connected to it in some way.

hunkahunka
06-02-2014, 11:12 PM
Timothy Leary is Winona Ryder's godfather.

Winona Ryder has every edition of The Catcher in the Rye and is obsessed with it.

She was cast in The Godfather 3, as Michael Corleone's daughter, but became mysteriously ill in Rome and was replaced by Sophia Coppola.

The role was originally given to Julia Roberts, who dropped out, then actress Rebecca Shaeffer, who was murdered, then Winona, before settling on Sophia Coppola.

Rebecca Shaeffer's murderer was an obsessed stalker who had a copy of The Catcher and the Rye on him when killed. But he said he wasn't trying to emulate Mark David Chapman.

The original script for the movie had Michael's son as a naval officer working for the CIA, with Michael Corleone working with the CIA to topple a Central American dictator.

And the creators of the film The People vs. Larry Flynt originally wanted Winona Ryder to play the part of Larry Flynt's wife, and Courtney Love ended up with the role


god this shit gets all tangled up like spaghetti and then burned onto the bottom of the pot, so that by the time its served it comes out as stinking tangled mush that no one would try to make sense of.....
Seems a method to the madness.

re: The original script for the movie had Godfather Michael Corleone's son as a naval officer working for the CIA, with Michael Corleone working with the CIA to topple a Central American dictator.

Bizarro land:
New York's prominent mafia Gambino family's sons attended LaSalle Military Academy which owned Singer Castle on Dark Island:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=863654&postcount=2146

Singer Castle was known as a haunt of the Skull n' Bones Society before it was sold to La Salle Military Academy.
Any bets Skull n' Bones runs La Salle Military Academy?

kung boa
07-02-2014, 12:32 AM
There's a gent who posts on here named Ian2day, who says he's written a number of hit songs inadvertently, because he writes them, and a chip in his head transmits them to other people, who steal them and make hits. Again... "OK, face value". Your story is easier to digest.

If they operated like that you would think that many more would write about it.

kung boa
07-02-2014, 12:34 AM
Timothy Leary is Winona Ryder's godfather.

Winona Ryder has every edition of The Catcher in the Rye and is obsessed with it.

She was cast in The Godfather 3, as Michael Corleone's daughter, but became mysteriously ill in Rome and was replaced by Sophia Coppola.

The role was originally given to Julia Roberts, who dropped out, then actress Rebecca Shaeffer, who was murdered, then Winona, before settling on Sophia Coppola.

Rebecca Shaeffer's murderer was an obsessed stalker who had a copy of The Catcher and the Rye on him when killed. But he said he wasn't trying to emulate Mark David Chapman.

The original script for the movie had Michael's son as a naval officer working for the CIA, with Michael Corleone working with the CIA to topple a Central American dictator.

Source please.

kung boa
07-02-2014, 12:41 AM
god this shit gets all tangled up like spaghetti and then burned onto the bottom of the pot, so that by the time its served it comes out as stinking tangled mush that no one would try to make sense of.....
Seems a method to the madness.

Now that's some good lyrics.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 12:47 AM
Has anybody tied in Courtney's obsession, almost "twinning" with Nancy Spungen? She the murdered junkie/groupie/girlfriend of Sid Vicious?
It's definitely "something".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Nancy_Spungen.jpg

http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/!photos/Nancy-Spungen.jpg

Where does Nancy stop, and Courtney begin?

"Spungen was born at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Franklin "Frank" and Deborah Spungen. She was born with severe cyanosis and nearly died of oxygen deprivation after being choked by her umbilical cord during delivery. She did not suffer from brain damage and released from the hospital eight days after birth. The Spungens were a middle class Jewish family that resided in Lower Moreland Township, a suburb of Philadelphia. Her father was a traveling salesman; her mother later owned an organic food store called The Earth Shop in nearby Jenkintown, Pennsylvania.

She was a difficult baby, throwing crying fits and temper tantrums late into childhood. At three months old, she was prescribed a liquid barbiturate by a pediatrician, but her violent behavior persisted. In an interview, Deborah Spungen stated, "I know it's normal for babies to scream, but Nancy did nothing but scream." She scored "superior" on an intelligence quotient test at five years of age, and was allowed to skip the third grade. Though she excelled academically, she had few friends during her elementary school years. She was a temperamental child who exhibited violent behavior toward her younger sister, Susan, and brother, David. She allegedly threatened to kill a babysitter with scissors, and attempted to batter her psychiatrist, who accused her of "acting out" for attention. At age 11, she was expelled from public schooling when she was absent from class more than two weeks. Her parents, weary of her erratic behavior, enrolled her at Devereux Glenholme School, CT and Devereux Manor High School, PA. In January 1972, she ran away from Devereux Manor and attempted suicide by slitting her wrists with scissors. When Spungen was 15, her psychiatrist diagnosed her with schizophrenia.

Spungen graduated at Devereux Manor High School in April 1974, and her application to attend the University of Colorado at Boulder was accepted two weeks earlier. She began attending the university at the age of 16; however, five months into her freshman year, she was arrested for purchasing marijuana from an undercover police officer. She was later arrested for storing stolen property in her dorm room, and she was then expelled from the University of Colorado. Her father traveled to Boulder and accepted a plea bargain for Nancy, which resulted in her being banished from the state of Colorado. After being fired from her first job on the first day, she began financing herself by stealing from her family and dealing drugs.

Spungen left home at age 17 and moved to New York City. She worked as a stripper and prostitute. She followed bands such as Aerosmith, Bad Company, The New York Dolls and Ramones. In 1976, she moved to London, possibly to win over Jerry Nolan of the Dolls and The Heartbreakers, but met Sex Pistols instead. When lead singer Johnny Rotten did not show interest in her, she pursued bassist Sid Vicious and they soon moved in together. "

Of course she died in the Chelsea Hotel after being stabbed in the bathroom, either by Sid, or by a drug dealer that frequented the place.

Courtney was in the movie Sid and Nancy, and much of her life mirrors Nancy Spungen. It's very weird.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site25/2011/0518/20110518__19cdecox~1_500.jpg

Courtney, Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb. Courtney auditioned for the part of Nancy but lost out to Chloe Webb. Joe Strummer wrote the theme song, "Love Kills".

Courney tried to make Kurt her Sid Vicious.... and a few other things.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 01:27 AM
As an addendum to the slight Aerosmith connection above; in spite of Kurt's seeming hatred of "hair" or "glam" bands, Courtney was apparently embarrassed when Kurt used his status to get backstage at an Aerosmith show in Seattle, and was by all accounts really proud to meet and hang out with the band who he called "legends". He did express some distaste over their "sexist" lyrics in an interview, but in ad listings for band members, he and Krist listed Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin as key influences, and he mentioned Aerosmith's "Rocks" as one of his favorite albums.

EDIT: It's strange, but Aerosmith came out of the grunge thing unscathed; their album "Get A Grip" came out in 1993 and was one of their biggest selling albums. In '97, when Hip Hop and bands like Prodigy were huge, Aerosmith scored again with Nine Lives. They won a Grammy for the song "Pink" off of that record.

michael337
07-02-2014, 01:31 AM
Source please.

The source is the wikipedia for Godfather III.

And I meant to say that Rebecca Shaeffer's killer had The Catcher and the Rye on him when he killed her, not when he was killed.

Winona didn't get to play in The Godfather 3 but she was later cast by Coppola in Bram Stoker's Dracula, playing the wife of the aforementioned Keanu Reeves. The year after My Own Private Idaho.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 01:34 AM
The source is the wikipedia for Godfather III.

And I meant to say that Rebecca Shaeffer's killer had The Catcher and the Rye on him when he killed her, not when he was killed.

Winona didn't get to play in The Godfather 3 but she was later cast by Coppola in Bram Stoker's Dracula, playing the wife of the aforementioned Keanu Reeves. The year after My Own Private Idaho.

Which had Gary Oldman (Sid and Nancy) as Dracula.

joaquinatruth
07-02-2014, 01:53 AM
Yes, I wrote the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit and to Come As You ARe in 1986.


Hunka, thanks for the 'honesty'. You should post the link to your whole story about how you slipped the lyrics under Cobain & band's hostel room door.  I remember reading your account a while ago and *almost* thinking it was a possibility (barring a few things I can pick apart). Out of curiosity, do you remember seeing a fat, afro-headed white guy with the band? If it was 1986, surely Cobain would have been on tour with the Melvins? Why wouldn't they have used your lyrics?

For sake of keeping an interesting angle to this thread going - if your story is true, that your newly-religious mother, whom you had been estranged from for years until that point, made sure to take you to the Banff hostel and make a concerted effort to help you secure a job there...and there you had some sort of random epiphany where the lyrics to SLTS and Come As You Are just came to you out of nowhere, and you were compelled to slip them under the door of these cool band guys across the hall...

Would it not be likely that you were probably a victim of a Manchurian Candidate-type of situation - your mother being the handler/Angela Lansbury character who sent her mind-controlled/MK'd son to deliver a specific message to a specific soon-to-be-famous rock star, who would then be unconsciously compelled (via hypnotic suggestion by his own handlers) to take the pre-written lyrics and record them with Butch Vig as the breakthrough single of their major-label, industry-changing debut album? If what you are saying is true, it implicates you as a piece of this sordid Cobain psyop, no? Furthermore, explaining your interest in controlling 95% of this thread for the last few years....

michael337
07-02-2014, 01:55 AM
The ties between military/CIA and the Mafia can be so blatant sometimes.

During WW2, there was something called Operation Underworld, where the Army worked with the Mafia to secure the NY waterfront, and for releasing kingpin Charles Luciano, the Mafia would make sure that the Sicilian Mafia would pave the way for the invasion of Sicily; using it as a launch pad into Italy.

Only thing was, the Sicilian Mafia was pretty much squashed at this point by Mussolini. He rounded up most of the leaders, and the rest fled to America and abroad. The US Army took what was left and propped them back up, making them even more powerful than they were before. They even brought Vito Genovese to work as a translator, where he made a fortune in the black market, working with army officials to steal wartime supplies.

The US Army basically revived the Sicilian mafia from the brink of extinction, and they didn't even need to do it. There wasn't even really any resistance in Sicily in the first place.

michael337
07-02-2014, 02:07 AM
Which had Gary Oldman (Sid and Nancy) as Dracula.

Francis Ford Coppola is heavily connected to this, and in the next few pages I'll show how he has been instrumental in the careers of half of Hollywood, as well as bizarre behavior with many of the actors, such as Winona Ryder.

For starters though, Coppola played a big part in George Lucas' career and produced his first couple movies. Lucas who of course had River Phoenix play young Indiana, and who basically made Harrison Ford's career.

michael337
07-02-2014, 02:27 AM
Sid and Nancy was written and directed by Alex Cox.

Cox also made 'Straight to Hell' in 87, starring Courtney Love and Joe Strummer.

And also wrote the screenplay for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas...

joaquinatruth
07-02-2014, 02:29 AM
Thanks for posting, very interesting , and imo truthful.
That does not surprise me at all. The entire area around Banff is natural geothermal caves, and there was an underground tunnel linking the staff annex building at the Banff Springs Hotel to the main building. The huge hotel laundry room was even deeper underground and it was sweltering hot. The Banff Springs Hotel was one of the original grand old railway hotels which was built after the railways burrowing through the rockies were built. There is definitely something mysterious going on with all those geothermal caves and rail tunnels. The Banff Springs Hotel is part of a network of similar hotels.
I would not be at all surprised to find out that there is a secret underground train which goes there.

I never knew my mother well, she became a devout christian after my parents split up when I was four.
She lived in Calgary and I visited her in Calgary on my way out to Banff to get work. I had called the
Banff Springs Hotel from Winnipeg and arranged to meet someone for a job at the Banff Springs Hotel.
I had been told that there was plenty of work for me and to come out there.
When I visited my mother in Calgary, on my way to Banff, my mother insisted on not only driving me
to Banff, but actually accompanied me to the interview, which I thought odd, as we had never been at all close .
I look back at it now and its almost like she knew something was going on in Banff and I'd better not show
up there alone.


Hunka, thanks for the 'honesty'. You should post the link to your whole story about how you slipped the lyrics under Cobain & band's hostel room door.  I remember reading your account a while ago and *almost* thinking it was a possibility (barring a few things I can pick apart). Out of curiosity, do you remember seeing a fat, afro-headed white guy with the band? If it was 1986, surely Cobain would have been on tour with the Melvins? Why wouldn't they have used your lyrics?

For sake of keeping an interesting angle to this thread going - if your story is true, that your newly-religious mother, whom you had been estranged from for years until that point, made sure to take you to the Banff hostel and make a concerted effort to help you secure a job there...and there you had some sort of random epiphany where the lyrics to SLTS and Come As You Are just came to you out of nowhere, and you were compelled to slip them under the door of these cool band guys across the hall...

Would it not be likely that you were probably a victim of a Manchurian Candidate-type of situation - your mother being the handler/Angela Lansbury character who sent her mind-controlled/MK'd son to deliver a specific message to a specific soon-to-be-famous rock star, who would then be unconsciously compelled (via hypnotic suggestion by his own handlers) to take the pre-written lyrics and record them with Butch Vig as the breakthrough single of their major-label, industry-changing debut album? If what you are saying is true, it implicates you as a piece of this sordid Cobain psyop, no? Furthermore, explaining your interest in controlling 95% of this thread for the last few years....

ronisron
07-02-2014, 02:38 AM
Francis Ford Coppola is heavily connected to this, and in the next few pages I'll show how he has been instrumental in the careers of half of Hollywood, as well as bizarre behavior with many of the actors, such as Winona Ryder.

For starters though, Coppola played a big part in George Lucas' career and produced his first couple movies. Lucas who of course had River Phoenix play young Indiana, and who basically made Harrison Ford's career.

Bring the Coppola stuff, tie it all in, we're getting damn near a conclusion (of sorts) here!

River played Harrison Ford's son in Mosquito Coast too. It was around this time that River was wearing sunglasses in interviews while promoting the film and rumors of his drug abuse began as he was often almost incoherent.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 02:53 AM
Hunka, thanks for the 'honesty'. You should post the link to your whole story about how you slipped the lyrics under Cobain & band's hostel room door.  I remember reading your account a while ago and *almost* thinking it was a possibility (barring a few things I can pick apart). Out of curiosity, do you remember seeing a fat, afro-headed white guy with the band? If it was 1986, surely Cobain would have been on tour with the Melvins? Why wouldn't they have used your lyrics?

For sake of keeping an interesting angle to this thread going - if your story is true, that your newly-religious mother, whom you had been estranged from for years until that point, made sure to take you to the Banff hostel and make a concerted effort to help you secure a job there...and there you had some sort of random epiphany where the lyrics to SLTS and Come As You Are just came to you out of nowhere, and you were compelled to slip them under the door of these cool band guys across the hall...

Would it not be likely that you were probably a victim of a Manchurian Candidate-type of situation - your mother being the handler/Angela Lansbury character who sent her mind-controlled/MK'd son to deliver a specific message to a specific soon-to-be-famous rock star, who would then be unconsciously compelled (via hypnotic suggestion by his own handlers) to take the pre-written lyrics and record them with Butch Vig as the breakthrough single of their major-label, industry-changing debut album? If what you are saying is true, it implicates you as a piece of this sordid Cobain psyop, no? Furthermore, explaining your interest in controlling 95% of this thread for the last few years....

Yes, it would imply that hunka was connected to this whole mess. We're obviously working on more than just "Kurt was killed by the CIA" at this point.

Listen, I've had some very weird things happen in my life, and I've met people with even weirder stories than the above. That's why I can take this at face value, and move on.

joaquinatruth
07-02-2014, 02:59 AM
I am willing to accept Hunka is telling the truth here, but obviously, a bombshell like this needs a bit more explanation from the source. He is willing to try to explain everything else about Cobain's MK lifestyle, so....?

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 04:09 AM
Hunka, thanks for the 'honesty'. You should post the link to your whole story about how you slipped the lyrics under Cobain & band's hostel room door. I remember reading your account a while ago and *almost* thinking it was a possibility (barring a few things I can pick apart). Out of curiosity, do you remember seeing a fat, afro-headed white guy with the band? If it was 1986, surely Cobain would have been on tour with the Melvins? Why wouldn't they have used your lyrics?
---------------------------------------------------
Actually, yes, I recall noticing the wild hair of the guy who later turned out to be Buzz Osborne. If anyone ever had rocker hair , it was Buzz Osborne, and that hair is actually one of the reasons that I took notice of them when I spotted them near my room. They were making a big show of unloading their stuff from their little van like they were some big-shot rockers, and I remember thinking how silly it was. Here they were traveling in this van and freeloading to sleep at the staff annex for a couple of nights, and yet making this big show of how important it was to get everything out of the van etc. , being very loud and pushy , blocking the entrance to the building with the van , blocking the stairs , and to my frustration, even after I'd given them a good fifteen or twenty minutes to unload their stuff and get out of the way, I found them even practically blocking my door to my room. Buzz had his back to me and the other guy was facing me, and I was practically laughing at them until I saw that frigging hair and thought to myself, "holy fuck, where does anyone get hair like that?"
I sensed the guy who turned out to be Cobain watching for my reaction to that hair (he probably always liked to watch people's reaction to the appearance and loud behavior of Osborne in those days) so I deliberately evaded his gaze. These guys were looking for attention, and I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of noticing them. As I unlocked my own door I glanced back at them as I went into my room and saw Cobain staring at me with a funny look on his face, like 'oh sure you didn't notice that fucking hair'. I also noticed the caliber of the women they were with who stayed in that room. They were top notch, classy looking little women, healthy as anything , just cute and attractive and clean looking.
Anyway , it impressed me enough in an odd way, to think that these loud, audacious, even sort of funny guys were just starting out, but probably going to make a serious, aggressive path some place, or give it a good try, and I guess is one reason I was jealous of them, which led to writing SLTS etc. if you recall the original account.



For sake of keeping an interesting angle to this thread going - if your story is true, that your newly-religious mother, whom you had been estranged from for years until that point, made sure to take you to the Banff Springs Hotel and make a concerted effort to help you secure a job there...and there you had some sort of random epiphany where the lyrics to SLTS and Come As You Are just came to you out of nowhere, and you were compelled to slip them under the door of these cool band guys across the hall...

Would it not be likely that you were probably a victim of a Manchurian Candidate-type of situation - your mother being the handler/Angela Lansbury character who sent her mind-controlled/MK'd son to deliver a specific message to a .

Guess I better Simon Cowell you and press the buzzer right here.
Not at all. I do not experience missing time in my life. I am not narcoleptic. I have been actually an insomniac off and on for many years, which is the opposite of narcoleptic. I am not mk. Just because the topic here is esoteric, writing some lyrics is not frigging supernatural.

The lyrics did not come from out of nowhere. I thoroughly explained the meaning of the lyrics to both songs (SLTS and Come As You ARe) and the thought processes which went into writing them. I had been writing lyrics
periodically for about five years, since I was 16.
I have said more than once that if I had given the lyrics to Cobain and he'd formed a bar band and had some minor local radio hit in Portland or something, and then died, nd I came by years later and said, "hey, you know what, I used to be a lyrics writer and I am the one who wrote the lyrics to that that minor little hit , and I gave them to Cobain and Cobain formed that no name bar band and it became that minor little hit." No one would have even challenged it because nothing would have been at stake. No prestige, reputation , and especially money. People would have said "Oh, that song. Hah, really. You wrote that! Wow." And that would have been it.
In this case there is still so much bullshit involved around marketing Cobain that its a hell of a lot more complicated. When I first looked up the lyrics in 2006 and recognized them and remembered that night in Banff in 1986, I had been in great spirits and started scouring the internet for information to confirm that Cobain had been in Banff in 1986. Nothing came up. I looked everywhere. I did find out Cobain had been a groupie/roadie with his high school friend's bar band The Melvins in 1986 and was certain that the Melvins were the key to the whole thing. I found The Melvins site locked ,
and tried to email some very basic questions to any email address associated with their site or with their Myspace or Facebook pages etc. I didn't come out with the whole story, just sent emails asking if Cobain had ever gone with the MElvins to Banff. Every single email went ignored. I went to the Official Nirvana Fan Club forum and posted the same generic questions there. Had the Melvins ever been to Banff? Could anyone reach the MElvins for me? Did anyone know if Cobain had gone to CAnada in 1986? etc. etc. etc.
The threads went ignored and got bumped to the bottom. Not a single reply. I started sending PM's to prominent posters on the forum , again it went ignored. ONE person replied that they could probably get in contact to get the information but what was this all about? I replied with some cryptic vague mention of some very important lyrics and that was it. Nothing ever came of that , either. No more replies to my PM's from that person. I didn't want to to dump the whole story on everyone, naturally, until I had made some headway in gathering corroboration. I was certain it was only a matter of time until I found the information placing Cobain there. Especially since I was not planning to ask for any money. I figured Cobain was dead, the song was old, and in fairness and decency the truth would emerge .
I told three friends how excited I was about this strange new situation and they looked partially skeptical and jealous and uncertain.
As the days and weeks wore on I noticed they changed their attitude toward me subtly, so occasionally I would update them on what was going on.
"I'm still looking for information on that song thing I told you about. He was a roadie with a band called The Melvins, so I'm trying to contact them...."
My so-called 'friends' would fall silent and instead of seeming piqued by the novelty of the situation seemed to endure hearing about it again. Like I was insulting them almost by lying to them. Worse, none of them ever came out and said "why should I believe this, how long have you been babbling about this now?" What made matters even worse was that I was at the same time starting to get into alternative media stuff like the fake moon missions , 9/11 etc. I would burn videos on these topics and and give them to my friends or we'd watch the videos together , and the esoteric nature of the information combined with the Smells Like Teen Spirit thing just seemed too much for them to handle. My guess is that they resented being woken up about 9/11 and Apollo and fluoridated water and vaccines, and Laurel Canyon on some level, thought I was some know it all, and did not like having their faith shaken in their television soother which they sucked on for comfort each night before beddy-bye, so when I brought the Smells Like Teen Spirit stuff forward, they were almost hoping it was bullshit , that I was nuts, so that they could lazily dismiss all the other information I'd bothered them with. Sure enough that's exactly what happened. They all immediately lost interest in my advice on nutrition, water, supplements, smoking , you name it. AS far as they were concerned , they finally had an excuse to say "hey, its ALL bullshit. I don't have to change how I live , or drink different water, or worry about a fucking thing anymore." So that's basically what happened, they lost respect for everything I said to them as time went on.
At the same that this was happening , I was spinning my wheels on the internet trying to find ANYTHING on fucking Kurt Cobain and The Melvins and Banff in 1986 and it was starting to irritate the hell out of me.
I finally posted my complete account of what happened to the Nirvana fan club forum. Not knowing that the frigging record company and Courtney Love and all the collectors and grubbers all still making money on Cobain were virtually the only people there. In hindsight, I realize now that I could not have chosen a worse place as the first place to post the whole lyrics account (I call it an account because it is an accounting of what actually happened, in 1986, not a 'story'.) This is what happened to me. There's nothing miraculous or otherworldly or glamorous about it. I was living in a dumpy little staff annex and gave some lyrics to some rude acting guys about 19 years old. Whoop de fucking doo. That's it.
Anyone making a big deal out of this is full of shit. THey are into the money end of the Cobain stuff, and they don't care if I'm telling the truth or not. Cobain is still a money maker for them and they want me to just shut up, give up, and go away. So they told Buzz Osborne he'd better keep his mouth shut about this, and to tell the rest of the Melvins to ignore this, or .......
not only would they not get whatever the fuck prize they bribed them with,
but.....lets just say that in the CIA underground occult world it can be a tad unhealthy not to listen to certain people when they tell you what to do and what not to do....
So that 's where this went . Down the same fucking NSA/CIA/national security/secret handshake/secret password toilet that the Cobain murder investigation went down. I even emailed the Melvin close friend in Calgary and told them I didn't care what happened to Cobain. I told them that if they would have the decency to confirm the truth of my account (that Cobain had been with them at the Banff Springs staff annex in 1986, etc., and there was no way in frigging hell anyone could have fabricated this ) then I would swear never to discuss the murder theories or the occult or any of the other mind blowing stuff I'd been posting to this thread. I suspected that half the reason for their burying this was to punish me for having exposed as much as I have here on the Icke forum. I wanted them not to consider me a threat, and just confirm the truth of the whole thing. They ignored me again.
In a way I've been driven by these two different threads (the one about the lyrics and this one here), feeding off of eachother. The more the industry people buried me in dirt and accusations over on the lyrics thread, the more determined I was to show how deeply enmeshed Cobain, the MElvins, Courtney Love etc. were in strangeness, intelligence activity, even occult stuff. Many times I have promised myself to walk away from all of this,
and the next thing I know I am faced with the next barrage of insults and accusations from the Cobain money camp on the other thread, and bam, I'm right back here trying to piece everything together. Anyone tempted to blame me for all of this, take a look at the true source of the greed and dishonesty which led to all of this.

kung boa
07-02-2014, 05:48 AM
Bring the Coppola stuff, tie it all in, we're getting damn near a conclusion (of sorts) here!

River played Harrison Ford's son in Mosquito Coast too. It was around this time that River was wearing sunglasses in interviews while promoting the film and rumors of his drug abuse began as he was often almost incoherent.

I watched Mosquito Coast for the first time one or two weeks ago.
There's a good seen when people are watching tv in church.

kung boa
07-02-2014, 06:01 AM
hunka you should have tried to negotiate a night with one of the little women for the lyrics.

And sorry if I somehow opened up a can of worms.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 06:53 AM
hunka you should have tried to negotiate a night with one of the little women for the lyrics.

And sorry if I somehow opened up a can of worms.

This whole thing makes me so damn angry that I just want to explode. I lost three decent friends that I had not even known for very long. This thing ruined those friendships for me. It also drove me to post here in this Icke thread I think more than I would have otherwise. HEll, if they had been honest about this, and admitted that to their knowledge I was almost certainly telling the truth, etc., I would have left this horrible exposé thread behind years ago and taken that time and instead written a book called 'The true story behind the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit'. (one of the three friends has even died since, having completely lost faith in any of my advice or knowledge and started to ignore my recommendations on how to beat his chronic emphysema. Until I mentioned the lyrics to him, he was following my health advice and slowly recovering. The lyrics thing gave him his excuse to blow me off as a quack and go die. Fucking idiot)
What have I gained from being something of a whistle-blower here? So far it hasn't been pretty. I've lost friends. I am sure I've come under the watchful eye of Big Brother in many ways in my own personal life situation, this lyrics issue being just part of that. I'd rather not get into what has been going on , suffice to say that I've got some, as in many, hostile people around me who were not there about six years ago. Lets leave it at that.
I hope that it's all been worth it in some intangible way. Maybe I've helped show a lot of people how the world really works, and hopefully brought the general consensus on things a bit closer to reality, closer to something which people can recognize as trustworthy and decent in humanity, rather than being led by liars and professional magicians, wizards and illusionists.

michael337
07-02-2014, 07:13 AM
Bring the Coppola stuff, tie it all in, we're getting damn near a conclusion (of sorts) here!

River played Harrison Ford's son in Mosquito Coast too. It was around this time that River was wearing sunglasses in interviews while promoting the film and rumors of his drug abuse began as he was often almost incoherent.

I'll do my best. I had like a 20 page thread on it, but it's gone now, so I have to start again from scratch and re-discover a lot of it. The main challenge is that I'm posting on my phone at the moment, so copy and pasting quotes, and tricks like that, are outta the question.

But I'll throw in something I learned after the board collapsed:

Hyman Roth in Godfather 2 was played by a Lee Strasberg. He was the acting coach of De Niro, Pacino, James Dean, Paul Newman, Marilyn Monroe..., and he "carried the aura of a prophet, a magician, a witch doctor, a psycho-analyst, and the feared father of a Jewish home."

Strasberg and his family became the acting coaches of Marilyn Monroe, and gradually took more and more control of her life. Manipulating her. And when she died, her will left half her estate to Strasberg, which her friends claim he obtained through coersion.

Now that is only loosely connected to Coppola, but The Godfather 2 is the only movie that Strasberg is known for as an actor.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 07:41 AM
if your story is true, that your newly-religious mother, whom you had been estranged from for years until that point, made sure to take you to the Banff hostel and make a concerted effort to help you secure a job there..

I am beginning to wonder if my mother may know a lot more about the occult than I ever suspected. She is British, and she was from London, and after the divorce from my father she became almost fanatically christian. I have often wondered what may have motivated that. I suspect that she and her family may have had some connection to the occult. Suspicions have been raised in this very thread that many christian denominations are dually satanic , so
to what extent she may have been 'in the know', as to the workings of the occult in Alberta, as a direct consequence of her involvement in some christian setting in Calgary , is an interesting question. I recall her mentioning that she had attended a Christian 'prayer summit' in the Rockies, presumably some place near Jasper or Banff, which is less than an hours drive west of Calgary.

Did she know of some weird crap going on in the tunnels of Banff?
Did she hear tales of transient disconnected youths disappearing
after going into the mountains in search of work in Banff and Jasper, etc.?
All I know is that I had a pretty scary brush with hotel security when I worked there. Now that I look back at it, when I was detained by security there (in the basement security office ) I was asked where my family was, and when I mentioned that my mother lived in Calgary and that she knew where I was , and when they even asked me if I had regular contact with her.... That question had set off a subtle warning bell to me. In the back of my mind, at that moment , it began to set in that I was practically in the dungeon of this castle-like fortress of a hotel virtually in the middle of nowhere and mommy was pretty far away after all in Calgary...So I went one farther and mentioned that she'd driven me out there and that I bused to Calgary often on weekends to visit her. I suspect that my mother knew
more about Banff than she was willing to tell me and that she accompanied me there as a warning to the occultists
in Banff to leave me alone. Maybe she was letting it be known that I had family who knew where I was.
For all I know, she's part of the dualist satanism going on at her own church, which could be why she knew about this
stuff.

anyway , for a more extensive version of this account of my brush with hotel security see this link:

[I posted it to a UFO abduction site because I suspect the whole UFO thing is a psy-op, and wanted to get some mk-ultra info inserted there]:

http://www.ufoseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7177

you can tell from the chilly 'welcome' that I received that they run that site to promote the project blue-beam type
of scenario, and they were not really interested in anything other than that.

btw, when I had mentioned to my mother my interest in song writing and singing, she had sternly , seriously
warned me that rock music was satanic. At the time I had thought her little more than a superstitious fool,
with her 'prayer summits' and the rest of it.
Yet something of the seriousness and intensity of her disposition that day had stuck with me. It was still my
mother who I was talking to , and despite our differences, I still had a pretty good gauge of when she was
truly concerned about something. It was definitely part of what made me rethink going into the career of
music.

michael337
07-02-2014, 07:59 AM
I'm born and raised in Calgary myself. Definitely some weird stuff that goes on here. Some bizarre murders.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 08:10 AM
Michael, was there nothing even on the Wayback Machine?
I used to post on Vigilant Citizen forum too, and I think
I was able to use the Wayback Machine site to find the old
stuff. Give it a try.

michael337
07-02-2014, 08:16 AM
Yes I thought I recalled you making some quality posts over there.

Anyway, I'll give that a try, but I might just go from scratch anyway. Maybe just try that machine out for notes.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 01:21 PM
Sid and Nancy was written and directed by Alex Cox.

Cox also made 'Straight to Hell' in 87, starring Courtney Love and Joe Strummer.

And also wrote the screenplay for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas...

oh my , that 's a new gem. I knew Cox had put Courtney Love into those two films but did not know he'd written Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas ( with its reptilian bar patrons and adrenochrome, and Hunter Thompson who is connected to Bohemian GRove and Paul Bonacci and Boystown scandal and Hells Angels and snuff films and was the armed security guard for the Esalen Institute for one summer and wore Dragnet hats and did shotgun art and wrote books just like William Burroughs? (is there anything which Hunter Thompson was not connected to?)
So Alex Cox ties in with Hunter Thompson, Courtney Love, Bohemian grove etc. quite nicely.

At times you wish this stuff wasn't true. This is one of those times.

btw, Bonacci sounds Italian , like he was destined for the mafia later in life.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 02:40 PM
OK, hunka I'll ask this; what are you hoping to accomplish with this? All you can really hope for out of this is a small pat on the back that only you can enjoy, if you can prove that the Melvins and Cobain were in Banff. If you wrote some lyrics on a piece of paper, and slid them to someone, and they used them years later, that's pretty much the story -- and it comes down to if people believe you, or not.

The only way you could prove that you wrote anything when you said you did, is to have made copies of those lyrics, and mailed them to yourself so as to preserve the postmark. The copies would have to have been sealed in that envelope until you produced them to a lawyer/judge and they could be properly accounted for. Or. being in Canada, you could register as a songwriter with SOCAN for free. You send them the lyrics, they date, copy, and file them away, and you get a "receipt" with the song title and the lyrics printed out, with of course the date.

If you have none of the above, all it amounts to is a story. You can undrerstand how people would think you were lying, right? With absence of proof, it's just a story. If you had a demo, or if you had the sealed envelope/SOCAN registry of the lyrics, you would already be known on the web as the guy who wrote these songs, you'd be an urban legend. And if it was legit, you'd probably be dead.

Do you have verifiable proof that you wrote the lyrics? If no, let it go. It might as well be bullshit. Keep it to yourself, spare yourself the misery.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 03:37 PM
For one thing , I'm obviously hoping to clear my name with the people I know personally who I told about this. I would like for Buzz Osborne to come forward with the truth. My guess is that he was there when the article was found and the lyrics were put under their door and knows damn well that every single word of my account is true. He could have the decency just to acknowledge the truth. After that I could take up some of the offers made by people who have contacted me about this wanting to do an article about it or wanting to do a video interview, or wanting me to write a book about it. I could send the information to my family. All of the things which you might expect to happen normally in a situation like this.

Apart from that is just the principle of it.
The world should know the exact truth of what happened. I'm sick of seeing Cobain used as a cash cow by unethical people on top of everything else.
Even Cobain's final fate might be better understood once everyone understands what really happened.

From what I understand of Cobain's character, he hated seeing things wasted and neglected, and seeing things unappreciated, and seeing things forgotten and cast aside, in the same way that he liked to rescue clothes and curios etc. from thrift shops. He may have even tried to salvage Courtney Love in some way , naively thinking that he would be the one to help solve all of her problems. (while they worked together using her family's obviously high level contacts to build their future)

He liked to see the potential of things and people, and try to proceed on that basis, even with things that others might disregard.

I have no certainty that this is what he thinking or feeling at the time, I'm not a mind reader. Again its supposition based on plain old common sense and intuition.
I think he came across those lyrics, put them to music in his head and jammed on them while alone, slowly creating the songs , putting the lyrics to music just out of boredom, and the songs sort of sat there unused and tormenting him for quite some time while he was confused about how to proceed. He had created the songs , but had been given the lyrics, had no way to find me, and probably did not even want any part of the idea of recording them and lying about it. This mindset probably lasted for quite awhile. What happened to push him to finally go ahead and record the songs is anyones guess. My thought is that in the end it probably drove him around the bend, kept him awake sometimes to think the songs would go to waste, and to hell with it, he finally decided that he was going to create the songs and let matters take their course. The real writer might find out, but big deal. They could cut a deal together and keep it happy , keep it secret. Mainly he'd be doing the right thing in making sure those songs were not wasted and forgotten.

Which was why I spoke earlier in regard to his character of wanting to be the rescuer and the salvager, the one who put things right again etc. So I think that is exactly what happened. He had the songs on the backburner for months if not years, found himself in a big new record deal with Geffen Records demanding some high performance songs, came up sort of empty under the pressure and partially in desperation decided to do those songs. I think the relief he felt at finally recording them enabled him to break his own creative block and come up with some of his own better tunes on Nevermind , like Lithium and Drain You. I don't think it was all a big selfish grab which motivated his lie of omission either. He had close friends and family and band members whom, through his success, he would be able to help. So his reasoning at the time could have been that he was taking a big personal risk out of the desire to help others.
If I were to write a book about this, that is exactly the way I would outline what went down. Cobain fell in love with two great songs, which he had helped create, and saw them as more important than himself in some ways.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 04:04 PM
For one thing , I'm obviously hoping to clear my name with the people I know personally who I told about this. I would like for Buzz Osborne to come forward with the truth. My guess is that he was there when the article was found and the lyrics were put under their door and knows damn well that every single word of my account is true. He could have the decency just to acknowledge the truth. After that I could take up some of the offers made by people who have contacted me about this wanting to do an article about it or wanting to do a video interview, or wanting me to write a book about it. I could send the information to my family. All of the things which you might expect to happen normally in a situation like this.

Apart from that is just the principle of it.
The world should know the exact truth of what happened. I'm sick of seeing Cobain used as a cash cow by unethical people on top of everything else.
Even Cobain's final fate might be better understood once everyone understands what really happened.

From what I understand of Cobain's character, he hated seeing things wasted and neglected, and seeing things unappreciated in the same way that he liked to rescue clothes and curios etc. from thrift shops. He may have even tried to salvage Courtney Love in some way , naively thinking that he would be the one to help solve all of her problems. (while they worked together using her family's obviously high level contacts to build their future)

He liked to see the potential of things and people, and try to proceed on that basis, even with things that others might disregard.

I have no certainty that this is what he thinking or feeling at the time, I'm not a mind reader. Again its supposition based on plain old common sense and intuition.
I think he came across those lyrics, put them to music in his head and jammed on them while alone, slowly creating the songs , putting the lyrics to music just out of boredom, and the songs sort of sat there unused and tormenting him for quite some time while he was confused about how to proceed. He had created the songs , but had been given the lyrics, had no way to find me, and probably did not even want any part of the idea of recording them and lying about it for quite awhile. What happened to push him to finally go ahead and record the songs is anyones guess. My thought is that in the end it probably drove him around the bend, kept him awake sometimes to think the songs would go to waste, and to hell with it, he finally decided that he was going to create the songs and let matters take their course. The real writer might find out, but big deal. They could cut a deal together and keep it happy , keep it secret. Mainly he'd be doing the right thing in making sure those songs were not wasted and forgotten.

Which was I spoke to his character of wanting to be the rescuer and the salvager, the one who put things right again etc. So I think that is exactly what happened. He had the songs on the backburner for months if not years, found himself in a big new record deal with Geffen Records demanding some high performance songs, came up sort of empty under the pressure and partially in desperation decided to do those songs. I think the relief he felt at finally recording them enabled him to break his own creative block and come up with some of his own better tunes on Nevermind , like Lithium and Drain You. I don't think it was all a big selfish grab which motivated his lie of omission either. He had close friends and family and band members whom, through his success, he would be able to help. So his reasoning at the time could have been that he was taking a big personal risk out of the desire to help others.
If I were to write a book about this, that is exactly the way I would outline what went down. Cobain fell in love with two great songs, which he had helped create, and saw them as more important than himself in some ways.

That's not the point I was making. You get none of the above without having some verifiable proof that you wrote the lyrics. Nothing. That's what this amounts to, nothing. It's just a story. If you don't have verifiable, time stamped proof from 1986 that these are your lyrics, it's BS. What would you expect Buzz Osborne to say on your behalf? "Oh yeah... The guy in the Banff hotel who wrote the lyrics to what later became "Smells Like..." and "Come As...", he slipped them under the door, and Kurt stored them away for his major label debut. Yes, believe him!! He's telling the truth!" This is fantasy.

If you have no way of proving that you wrote the lyrics, it's time to move on. There are people who send artists and record companies demos, lyrics, video, and bios in packages hoping to get a deal, who get nothing, but find one of their songs wound up on a KISS album, or a Foo Fighters record, and without having money to hire a powerful law firm to sue for royalties, or at least take the case pro bono, they have nothing. They have to accept it and move on. You have none of the above, and you expect people to believe you? Surely you can see this?

I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer" here, but drop it. No proof, it's bullshit. Accept it. Move on.

kung boa
07-02-2014, 04:11 PM
Hunka I think you should seriously consider writing a book about the lyrics, your encounter with cobain and all this other stuff on this thread.

Some will believe this crazy stuff and others will not but I think it would sell well and at least you would get money out of it.

This is the most interesting and informative thread I've ever come across.
Reading this thread from start to where we are now has really got me understanding to which extreme lengths the ones on top of the pyramid will go to have us all under their influence.


Thank you.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Hunka I think you should seriously consider writing a book about the lyrics, your encounter with cobain and all this other stuff on this thread.

Some will believe this crazy stuff and others will not but I think it would sell well and at least you would get money out of it.

This is the most interesting and informative thread I've ever come across.
Reading this thread from start to where we are now has really got me understanding to which extreme lengths the ones on top of the pyramid will go to have us all under their influence.


Thank you.

It's a better book with proof.

If hunka was trying to say "I met Cobain once, I'm pretty sure it was him. I was working at a Banff Hotel in 1986, and the Melvins were in town. I am having a hard time finding out if it was really the Melvins and if so if their roadie was Cobain". hunka can prove he worked at the hotel -- paystubs, photographs etc. It' should be of little or no problem to find out if the Melvins were in Banff in '86, or if Cobain was with them. However, he is claiming he wrote the lyrics to two hit songs by Nirvana, on an album that sold umpteen million copies. He is by right, a 50% owner of both "Smells Like..." and "Come As...". He's owed a lot of money. Millions in royalties. He says he was compelled to write two sets of lyrics and slip them under the door. The rest is history and all he has is this story to back him up.

Test it yourself, tell someone you know that you encountered a guy on a forum who claims to have written those two songs. Tell them the story. When they ask if he's got any proof, and you say "NO, but I believe him anyway because it's a great story" what do you think the reaction will be?

greydove
07-02-2014, 05:01 PM
Timothy Leary is Winona Ryder's godfather.

Winona Ryder has every edition of The Catcher in the Rye and is obsessed with it.

She was cast in The Godfather 3, as Michael Corleone's daughter, but became mysteriously ill in Rome and was replaced by Sophia Coppola.

The role was originally given to Julia Roberts, who dropped out, then actress Rebecca Shaeffer, who was murdered, then Winona, before settling on Sophia Coppola.

Rebecca Shaeffer's murderer was an obsessed stalker who had a copy of The Catcher and the Rye on him when killed. But he said he wasn't trying to emulate Mark David Chapman.

The original script for the movie had Michael's son as a naval officer working for the CIA, with Michael Corleone working with the CIA to topple a Central American dictator.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/65/91/1f/65911ff73678768bc6149f518cfc9b51.jpg

And Winona famously dated Johhny Depp and was friends with Courtney Love. Also interesting is the cast for Girl Interrupted one of Ryder's most famous movies. The movie gives some insight into the experience of monarchs using actual monarchs! I'm sure Courtney Love can relate to this movie. Considering the connections/history of the cast, its like a who's-who of CIA controlled MK-ULTRA actresses.

https://dtvimages.hs.llnwd.net/e1//db_photos/movies/AllPhotosAPGI/24115/24115_aa_d.jpg


Brittany Murphy----Mysterious death/father possible mafia connections/linked to Kabbalistic types-Ashton Kutcher/Israeli svengali husband/Photogrpahed with masks ritual and suicide scenarios...etc.
Angelina Jolie----CFR membership/UN connections/flies her own planes/contstantly travelling to war torn drug regions all over the world/Rumored massive heroin habit
Winona Ryder----Odd behavior-shoplifting/revealing film roles/hippie commune upbringing etc.



Here's a quote from Courtney Love. Apparently, it wasn't only her dad who drugged her as a child.

http://www.celebitchy.com/206113/courtney_love_blames_her_benzos_addiction_on_winon a_ryder_and_andy_dick/

“I think of myself as sober,” she says, although she admits that her daily regimen of pills wouldn’t pass muster at an AA meeting. “When you’re used to heroin and cocaine, a few pills doesn’t seem like the end of the world. As they say in AA, it’s about progress, not perfection. I mean, abstinence is a nice idea, but I don’t know if it’s right for everyone. Especially for someone who was nursed on a steady diet of Valium and Ritalin from the time I was seven, thanks to my fine mother. I don’t do street drugs anymore. My medications are all legally prescribed by prominent physicians. I’m entirely legal. But the truth is, I’ve never claimed to be anyone’s role model. I’m not Mother Theresa. All I’m trying to do is stay alive.”

Interestingly, the hopsital in "Girl Interrupted" (McLean Hospital) treated a number of famous people including Sylvia Plath, Ray Charles, and James Taylor.



**Addendum: All of this adds credence to the theory that people in the entertainment industry have connections to, and are POSSIBLY under the control of intelligence agencies, cults, and organized crime. Thank you for your consideration. :D

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 05:07 PM
Get fucked, ronisron, there is verifiable proof, there are witnesses who saw the whole thing happen exactly as I described it, and yes it would not be all that difficult for Buzz to come out and say it is true or probably true. That would at least start the ball rolling , or keep the ball rolling toward whatever else may emerge.
Maybe at that stage Krist Novoselic comes forward and says something which jibes with what Osborne and I are saying. Something as simple as "well , Cobain did mutter something about wishing he'd never seen those lyrics in the first place, and I never quite understood what he was talking about. This could be what it was all about."

Or simple circumstantial evidence , once people start helping piece it all together. For example, the song 'Rape Me' uses almost the exact riff from Smells Like Teen Spirit, as one reviewer critical of In Utero once pointed out.
He called Rape ME a pathetic rehash of Smells Like Teen Spirit and characterized Serve the Servants with it's "teenage angst has paid off well, now I'm bored and old" line as 'gratuitous navel gazing' .
My take on Rape Me is that Cobain probably put Smells Like Teen Spirit to the rape me riff originally (based on More than a Feeling by Boston, btw)
and hemmed and hawed about whether or not to record Smells Like Teen Spirit at all. I think he was dead set against using the lyrics I had given him at one point, but had the music and lyrics matching so well that he felt he had to salvage it in some way. I think Cobain tried to rewrite the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit a couple of times in order to salvage the song , keeping some parts of the lyrics and replacing large parts of them with his own words, until he read up on copyright law and realized that keeping even one original line of the song would leave him exposed. So I think Rape ME was his complete lyrical and musical rewrite of Smells Like Teen Spirit, and Rape ME was the substitute song which he had originally planned to put on Nevermind instead of SLTS. THis is why the music and structure of Rape ME so closely resembles SLTS, with its quiet to loud back to quiet structure etc. It also probably explains why Cobain wanted to sing Rape Me instead of Smells Like Teen Spirit on Saturday Night Live, and why he briefly opened with the riff of Rape Me at the MTV Awards show before going into Lithium.
There was always something odd about his insistence to push Rape ME ahead of his biggest hits, and it puzzled the producers and record execs as much as everyone else. This probably explains why.
So lets say that theoretically Buzz finally comes clean and says "yes , Cobain came with us to Banff, and nobody knew about it except us , and yes something was slipped under our door, so there is no way this guy could be lying."

From there, who knows, maybe Grohl or Butch Vig will confirm that Rape ME was originally going to be on NEvermind. The point is that once the ball starts rolling, the truth starts to emerge. More and more people come forward with evidence. Cobain was arrested by Aberdeen police on his first night back in Aberdeen after his trip to Banff. He may have had the article and the lyrics in his personal effects if he'd been arrested on his return with his travel bags still with him. So I could follow that up with the police and see if anyone remembered anything , such as when he was arrested and if it was right after getting off the Greyhound bus from Calgary.

So once Buzz Osborne finally confirms the truth , things keep rolling. I go more public , the word gets out farther , and more people come forward.
If I were to just Youtube this with my face and identity and address without anyone backing me up, what would happen? I'd be dragged into the dirt and buried in accusations, harassed, threatened etc. way worse than has already happened. I have had death threats over this already. Buzz Osborne won't even give a basic yes or no on whether he took Cobain to Banff in their van in May of 1986. Why not? If this is lie, why would he not state yes or no? Maybe he's ducking this because he'd have to lie if he answered it directly.

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 05:36 PM
It's a better book with proof.

If hunka was trying to say "I met Cobain once, I'm pretty sure it was him. I was working at a Banff Hotel in 1986, and the Melvins were in town. I am having a hard time finding out if it was really the Melvins and if so if their roadie was Cobain". hunka can prove he worked at the hotel -- paystubs, photographs etc. It' should be of little or no problem to find out if the Melvins were in Banff in '86, or if Cobain was with them. However, he is claiming he wrote the lyrics to two hit songs by Nirvana, on an album that sold umpteen million copies. He is by right, a 50% owner of both "Smells Like..." and "Come As...". He's owed a lot of money. Millions in royalties. He says he was compelled to write two sets of lyrics and slip them under the door. The rest is history and all he has is this story to back him up.


HAve you even read the thread in question here? I did find proof that The MElvins were in Banff, and were there in spring of 1986. finally, after years of searching and after sending FAceboook messages and emails and making a long distance phone call first to Buzz's friend and former stage manager in Calgary, and from there placing a call to another of Buzz's Calgary buddies Ben Falconer , who was in a band on the same gig as The MElvins in Calgary, and asked him if he'd known anything about a Melvins show in Banfff, and to ask Buzz OSborne if they'd played a show in Banff. It took me ages to even find out which other bands they had shared the venue with (there were always at least two or three of these teen noise band acts at these bar gigs) amd track all these guys down on FAcebook . Remember this is all stuff which happened over 25 years ago. Its not exactly fresh in their minds and the evidence trail is not that fresh either. After my phone call to Calgary, The Melvins updated their gigography, as they call it, their tour history , with the inclusion of a show at Wild Bill's in Banff right before their Calgary show.
They'd obviously forgotten about the Banff show or had the show canceled at the last minute. (Ben Falconer was in a similar Calgary band called NEver a DUll moment in 1986, which had played the same Calgary bar gig with the MElvins that spring .I found this out from an old collectors site of gig posters, btw. There was a vintage 1986 gig poster billing the MElvins in Calgary with a band called Never a Dull Moment, at a dumpy old downtown native Indian hangout called the National Hotel. When I had first contacted Ben with this by email, he'd been gung ho and volunteering information , such as the fact that he'd been the one who arranged for both his band the The Melvins to appear together in Calgary and Banff that year. He told me via email that he'd booked a show for the Melvins in Banff but the show had been canceled and Osborne had been pissed off at him because The Melvins had driven up-hill all the way from Calgary to Banff into the mountains only to find the gig had fallen through. After he promised to contact Buzz Osborne for me and ask if Cobain had gone with them up to Banff, he cut off email contact with me. Then after I put his canceled Banff show information in the topix.com thread , and probably after BUzz found out about it ,Ben finally answered another email and this time told me to disregard everything which had been said to me in reply via email, that I had no way of knowing who had even emailed me that information and he had no further comment on it, and it could have been someone else making stuff up who sent it. THen a year later the Melvins mysteriously posted a Banff gig on their tour history right between Cobain's appearance with them in Olympia and their gig in Calgary in May of '86.
So because of my phone calls to Alberta, they decided to add the Banff show to their own site's tour history page. Whether that show really even took place is anyone's guess. I even emailed Wild Bill's for information, again the wall of silence, no reply.

AS far as the money thing, go piss up a rope, I have already said several times that Cobain is dead and I would not dream
of getting any of the Nirvana money out of this. WHy you even drag that into this again , is beyond explanation.

Here's the Melvins 1986 gig poster for the show Cobain did with them at what was probably a licensed dance/social
at a place in Olympia called Gessco Hall. Probably not much more than a community center or ball room venue.
Cobain was traveling with them from Aberdeen to Olympia as sort of a roadie and he read poetry backed by music
from the Melvins as some sort of Beatnik poetry act, prior to the Melvins and other bands doing their set-list.
They billed him on the gig as Brown Towel, but the guy in Olympia on the phone who slapped together the gig
posters heard it wrong and put "Brown Cow' on the poster instead.



http://letsrollforums.com/imagehosting/691252f5202e33780.jpg

Look at the MElvins own 1986 gig history here , it shows their next show after that was
in Banff and then in Calgary:

http://www.themelvins.net/wiki/index.php?title=Melvins_Tour_Dates_1986
Melvins Tour Dates 1986

January 16, 1986 Seattle, WA - Central Tavern w/ U-Men
February 15, 1986 Seattle, WA - UTC Hall w/ L'Andrew (from Malfunkshun) MC'ed
March 21, 1986 Seattle, WA - UTC Hall w/ Soundgarden, Green River (Deep Six Release Party)
April 25, 1986 Olympia, WA - GESSCO Hall w/ Malfunkshun, Metal Death Squad, 64 Spiders
May 03, 1986 Olympia, WA - GESSCO Hall w/ Danger Mouse, Brown Cow (Brown Towel)
May ??, 1986 Banff, AB - Wild Bills
May 14, 1986 Calgary, AB - National Hotel w/ Beyond Possession
May 15, 1986 Calgary, AB - National Hotel w/ Beyond Possession
May 16, 1986 Calgary, AB - National Hotel w/ Beyond Possession
May 17, 1986 Calgary, AB - National Hotel w/ Beyond Possession
May ??, 1986 Spokane, WA - ??
May 23, 1986 Seattle, WA - Serbian Hall w/ Beyond Possession, The Accused, Catalyst


Here's the gig poster for the Calgary show with Never a Dull Moment and Beyond Possession at the National Hotel
in Calgary. I have been to that place. It was like something straight out of the notorious Main St. aboriginal bar strip
in Winnipeg:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjUJTfXzkHLd-pXLP611MSfuu_FbBej3ty8UbAq_E378r63h98gBsSyeCF

There is no gig poster for the purported Banff show, which I think Ben Falconer was initially being truthful about. I think
the Banff show at Wild Bill's was canceled, and that is why there is no gig poster for it.
I think Ben was telling the truth , which is that the Melvins were in Banff with Cobain mid-May of 1986, but there was no actual show.
They slept for free at the Banff Springs Hotel staff annex that night. Cobain may have been a drug mule on that trip,
because there has always been huge cross-border drug trafficking over the Canada-U.S./B.C.-Washington border.
Banff is right near B.C. , the B.C. interior is famous for two products. Apples and high quality weed and hash. It is said that
marijuana was unofficially the number one cash crop in B.C. for decades.
I suspect the real reason Cobain was in Banff may have been to take delivery of some hash and take it back to Aberdeen
on the bus with him .

btw, none of this information was on the MElvins site in 2006 when I first started searching for it.
As I said , the MElvins site was locked and I could find not one mention of THe MElvins having gone
to Canada in 1986. I had given up searching for any information on that , when a couple of years later,
around 2008, a reader new to the topix.com thread dug it up and posted it to the thread.
The Melvins had evidently unlocked their site and began compiling their gig history, so there it was,
what I had been looking for, for months upon months, proof that the Melvins had not only been in Canada
in 1986, but had been to Calgary, Alberta, the very next show after Cobain did his beatnik reading with
them in Olympia ,Washington. From the information on the Melvins gig history page, I was able to search
for information on those Calgary shows, and found the gig posters and nothing much more than that,m other than a
couple of old MySpace and FAcebook pages referencing the other bands etc.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 06:53 PM
OK, so you can prove that the Melvins were in Banff. Next step is proving that Cobain was with them at the time. And even if you can do that, proving that you wrote the lyrics is really my main point anyway. Which you have not answered yet in three long winded posts. That's all I want to know. If you can't prove that you wrote these lyrics, you are wasting your time with something that sounds like fantasy. Right? No need to be angry, it's a simple question and a simple answer. Can you prove you wrote the lyrics? I'm guessing "probably" not.

Without proof you wrote the lyrics, it's amounting to an addendum to a story about you meeting the Melvins in Banff in 1986, that you can't prove. I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm being realistic.

Simple question, simple answer, yes or no. Do you have proof that you wrote the lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Come as You Are"?

EDIT: I'm not demanding you show it to me either, but somebody will when you are putting this out there. It amounts to a crazy story that can't be backed up without proof you wrote the lyrics. What do you hope to accomplish by saying this?

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 07:42 PM
You already know the answer to that question as I have already answered it here a couple of times. THere were witnesses. If the witnesses attest that Cobain found the article and then found some lyrics shoved under their door, then at least its a start. Do I think that I'll get money out of it on that basis? No. I have always admitted that to get even a shot at any compensation, of course I'd have to have better proof, what the fuck is the point in your repeating yourself over and over? Some people would not believe it even if every single member of The MElvins said my story was very likely, almost definitely true. "YEs, Cobain had gone with them to Banff, and yes no one knew he'd gone with them there, and yes, an article and lyrics had been passed onto Cobain there. And yes this guy in Canada came from out of nowhere in 2006 with this quite believable story describing exactly the same article and lyrics which Buzz himself had read that night in 1986 , and based on all appearances and circumstantial evidence, it is probably true that this guy wrote those lyrics." All it would take is for some money-grubbing ass-hats to jump up and scream themselves blue in the face "No proof! No proof! Inadequate!" etc.
That would still not prevent me from going ahead and continuing to gather information , because I would at least have some backing or corroboration.
The record company could try to sue me, and try to get Buzz et al to lie in court and retract their statements. Good luck with that.
Who knows what other evidence there is to support this? Did Cobain ever break down and confide in anyone that he was sick of the bullshit about those two big hits and that the real reason he hated those two songs so much was because they had become the focal point of his life and he had not even written the lyrics to them? Maybe he did exactly that, and on more than one occasion.
and maybe whoever he said that to may find out about this whole thing some day and say something like "you know, Cobain said he didn't write those songs when he was really depressed and strung out one night, and I thought he was just being incoherant , just babbling nonsense. This explains it , he was actually telling the truth." And stemming from that someone else contacts me and swears Cobain
had the lyrics to the song with him when he was arrested in Aberdeen in 1986, or who knows what the fuck else could emerge?

Who knows what could happen if BUzz Osborne just does the right thing and admits as much as he knows of this?

It also raises the question of why in hell the money people connected to this would care enough about this to demand that Buzz Osborne refuse comment.
IF it is as cut and dried simple as you claim it is, why should they even care?
"Not proof! Not proof! Lies! The outrage! blah blah blah"
My guess is that they may fear the exact process taking place which I have described above. They fear that once the cats out of the bag, the whole truth might fall into place, and a whole slew of people might come forward and say that Cobain disowned those songs several times in his rants about never wanting to play them again , not wanting to play them on MTV Unplugged etc. That could be the crux of why its so important to them that Buzz remain silent on this and that no one in the know reveal the truth that Cobain was in Banff in 1986, as I have been saying for almost eight years.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 08:15 PM
You already know the answer to that question as I have already answered it here a couple of times. THere were witnesses.

The witnesses are The Melvins? They saw a note with lyrics slipped under a door?

I've seen one. If the witnesses attest that Cobain found the article and then found some lyrics shoved under their door, then at least its a start.

No, because unless Kurt stood up and said "Hey look, someone just slipped song lyrics under the door! Check it out, they're great! I'm keeping them!" and they looked out in the hallway and there you are, and an acknowledgement that you wrote the lyrics was forthcoming.... unless something like this happened, and you can prove you wrote the lyrics, it sounds like it's not really true. Just being honest.


Do I think that I'll get money out of it on that basis? No. I have always admitted that to get even a shot at any compensation, of course I'd have to have better proof, what the fuck is the point in your repeating yourself over and over?

Because what is the point of all of this?? Recognition?? Rewriting history?? None of it happens with "Maybe if they vaguely remember and say that it's possible, and maybe Buzz read the lyrics...." it amounts to you talking shit on a bunch of websites and making yourself look like a fool.




Some people would not believe it even if every single member of The MElvins said my story was very likely, almost definitely true.

Right, becasue it is your assertation that Buzz Osborne definitely saw Kurt Cobain pick up a note you slipped under the door, and can confirm they were lyrics. You already admitted being less than intimidated by the whole crew, why wouldn't you just knock on the door, and say "Hey, I write lyrics... what do you think of these, you can use them if you want...." No, your story is you wrote them, slipped them under the door, and left it at that. Very mysterious.



"YEs, Cobain had gone with them to Banff, and yes no one knew he'd gone with them there, and yes, an article and lyrics had been passed onto Cobain there. And yes this guy in Canada came from out of nowhere in 2006 with this quite believable story describing exactly the same article and lyrics which Buzz himself had read , and based on all appearances and circustantial evidence, it is probably true that this guy wrote those lyrics." All it would take is for some money-grubbing ass-hats to jump up and scream themselves blue in the face "No proof! No proof! Inadequate!" etc.

It's more than money, it's rewriting music history. And you have no proof that you wrote them. No copies, no copyright, no evidence what so ever that your hand produced those lyrics.


That would still not prevent me from going ahead and continuing to gather information , because I would at least have some backing or corroboration. The record company could try to sue me, and try to get Buzz et al to lie in court and retract their statements. Good luck with that.

None of this will happen, becasue without proof that you wrote them, you.... have no proof that you wrote them. Catching on yet?


Who knows what other evidence there is to support this? Did Cobain ever break down and confide in anyone that he was sick of the bullshit about those two big hits and that the real reason he hated those two songs so much was because they had become the focal point of his life? Maybe he did, and maybe whoever he said that to may find out about this whole thing some day and say something like "you know, Cobain said he didn't write those songs when he was really depressed and strung out one night, and I thought he was just being incoherant , just babbling nonsense. This explains it , he was actually telling the truth"

No, the record still stands that Kurt Cobain wrote those songs. And that's the way it's going to stay.

Who knows what could happen if BUzz Osborne just does the right thing and admits as much as he knows of this?

Because there is no proof you wrote the lyrics you say you did. Scribbled them on a piece of paper, you did. Slipped them under a door, you did. OK....

It also raises the question of why in hell the money people connected to this would care enough about this to demand that Buzz Osborne refuse comment.
IF it is as cut and dried simple as you claim it is, why should they even care?

How do you know that people are demanding Buzz refuse comment on this?? Becasue he didn't respond to you?? This is not evidence that he is being leaned on in any way.

"Not proof! Not proof! Lies! The outrage! blah blah blah"

The only thing that is outrageous is your claim with no proof to back it up.

My guess is that they may fear the exact process taking place which I have described above. They fear that once the cats out of the bag, the whole truth might fall into place, and a whole slew of people might come forward and say that Cobain disowned those songs several times in his rants about never wanting to play them again , not wanting to play them on MTV Unplugged etc. That could be the crux of why its so important that Buzz remain silent on this and that no one in the know reveal the truth that Cobain was in Banff in 1986, as I have been saying for almost eight years.

Might, maybe, if..... You have no proof that you wrote the lyrics, that you slipped them under the door, that Cobain used them, none of it. And you get more unhinged with each retelling.... Bro, I don't know what to say to you. You don't want money, you just want some sort of recognition?? You have zero proof to back this up to get this recognition. There will be no expose forthcoming from the Melvins, history will stand as it is, and this has nothing to do with Cobain's death. Let's just say you've hit a wall here looking for proof you're hoping someone else will provide, and leave it at that. I'm being diplomatic. I never called you a liar. You do bring some excellent research here. Continue with that.

ronisron
07-02-2014, 09:15 PM
http://www.topix.com/forum/who/nirvana/TAP8NSTHB7L2O1R6T

There. I just read the whole thing. I encourage anyone reading to do so. It's very well written. It gets to a point where there's a leaping off point between the lyrics of "Come As You Are" and Cobain definitely having the lyrics and article which you wrote, and which of course is a basically your version of a manifesto which details your feelings of what the whole "grunge" scene came to represent.

And here I always thought "doused in Bleach" simply referred to the first album, called "Bleach". Wow..and the fact that all his lyrics seem to be basically written by the same sarcastic hand.

You have a great imagination, and I will leave this by saying that your above tale belongs as a part of internet fiction. I've got no axe to grind, I have no profit, and my memories aren't needing to be preserved in aspic, I allow for rewrites. It's just that it is my opinion that what you're saying is almost complete, total and utter fabrication. Hey, I believe you met the Melvins. Wow....... and maybe Cobain was their roadie at the time. Double wow. You didn't write something that changed the course of music history. I think you're fucking nuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URGLFTutM9s

Dave Grohl reiterates the story of hoe SLTS was conceived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0xfmqh_Rg

Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain talking about their mutual admiration with a clip of them dancing and hugging at the end. Stone Gossard "If we are 'good', Kurt is part of the reason for that".

Damn.... Back to the original topic which is Kurt was killed by the CIA. Anyone disagree?

hunkahunka
07-02-2014, 09:17 PM
don't tell me what to do and what I'm allowed to say about anything . You sound far from impartial about this, you sound like a broken record. Get off Cobain's dick and muster the discernment to remain impartial until you know the full truth. There is nothing 'diplomatic' about meticulously line by line quote /quote ad nauseum obsessively arguing something that you know nothing about as though you can be certain either way.
You do not speak for THE Melvins and are in no position to state unequivocally what is going to happen with this and what is not going to happen with this.
All you've done here is reveal how biased you are.
This is exactly why I did not want to bring this thread over here from topix.com. At least at the original thread anyone reading can see the original, organic timeline and development which took place , from where I started there in 2006 and began piecing the information together bit by bit over the years. Many of the readers of that thread expressed a belief in the truth of what I was saying , from having read the thread from beginning to end. I may have been naive back then to an extreme because it literally took me years to figure that there were people greedy enough to get upset that this revelation might damage their money-grubbing/money-making activities
still surrounding and centered on the image of Cobain .
For example , back in 2006 when I began with this, I had no knowledge of Courtney Love's grandiose plans to try to make a motion picture about Cobain and then spin that off into a Broadway play based on the film etc.
and that back in 2004 he was still being hyped online to the point that he became the most valuable dead celebrity in the world. I had no knowledge that the so-called fan sites were mostly either industry-run advertising to sell product or cliquish 'collectors clubs' of artsy alterna-snobs who were running some sort of pyramid scheme racket in 'collectors items' and 'box sets'
etc.

All of that seems to have changed now that a lot of the truth about Cobain has emerged. That he did not write the lyrics to his two biggest hits, that he wanted Burroughs to fuck his ass in a sex ritual for Heart Shaped Box, that he may have done prostitution.
oh boo hoo, I spoiled the big unending cash-in on Cobain and the tarted up airbrushed posters of his face don't sell quite as well , and we are all getting older now, and starting to outgrow all of this rock god shit anyway, and it was long enough ago that putting out yet another movie about him would bore their primary demographic target audience to tears and lose money anyway. Too fucking bad. He lied . He called himself a liar and a thief on the follow-up cassette and now everyone knows why.

I have no reason whatsoever to fabricate something this detailed and elaborate for the purpose of simply lying to everyone. I posted screenshots of my Facebook messages to the people involved, I proved beyond a doubt, through my own research , that I had taken the time to track down and contact, personally, people who had been personal friends of Buzz Osbornes for twenty years. No one can refute that those people and dates and places and events and posters etc. are authentic. So I will continue with this. I don't care how many stupid Cobain fans are offended or how many money-making schemes fall apart because of this.
I think Cobain considered those songs more important than his own long-term best interests, and the proof is in the pudding that he was right. He ended up dead, and the songs are what lived on, and unfortunately so did the whole cohort of hypesters, flogsters, hipsters, and assholsters clinging to this like parasites. You can state a thousand times that I am just telling stories, and people will always see through your bullshit.