Cobain murdered by CIA

[brown velvet]

Hi

- hello Hunkahunka :D

I have never seen LR, read about it, come back to it every now and then due to my readings. Does one of them have / carry an Ankh? :rolleyes: Also a 'dome'? I often come back to 'domes' too, green ones.

Thanks for the post, the carousel piece annoyed me immensely, annoyed I never even picked up on that a simplistic gathering was a carousel:eek:, so pretty much any one standing in a circle, human / mechanically can turn themselves in to a carousel? The implications to me, having never recognised that, have caused me to go and *ponder* with a cuppa and a (s)moke.

brown.

[brown velvet]

Hi :)


Hey soulja,
that Cole piece, the one where she has the heart around her eye, two things...
1) she is just 'head & hands' (different heads for different alters)
2) the rags in her hair...... spagetti? As in multi-coloured ribbons? And the MM ears :mad:

brown.

[mrguitarbear]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/The_Black_Crowes_-_Three_Snakes_and_One_Charm.jpg

The Black Crowes - ' Three Snakes and One Charm ' , released 23rd July 1996.

Both the Black Crowes and Nirvana played at the MTV Video Music Awards on September 9th 1992.

EDIT : To clarify , this appears to be a varient of the B-logo. It also appears to be a ' reverse 666 ' with the 6s combined together ( into ' one charm ' ).

[brown velvet]

Hi

Hello Eternal-Spirit :)

glad you liked my take on 'seeing' ribbons.



All I can see with the PowerRage cover is a cross over / with marionette proging, combining the two progs, thoughts linked to parts of the body. Going to do a bit of a think on the links, (no, not off to play golf;))

brown.

[hunkahunka]

Hi

- hello Hunkahunka :D

I have never seen LR, read about it, come back to it every now and then due to my readings. Does one of them have / carry an Ankh? :rolleyes: Also a 'dome'? I often come back to 'domes' too, green ones.
.

yes, the ankh is featured in one of the Logans Run trailers I posted.

at 1:24 in this video, to be precise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WUUnc1M0TA

[hunkahunka]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/185150463_448ebb7b54.jpg?v=0

William Burroughs and Kurt Cobain.

In 1992 Cobain played guitar on a spoken-voice album by Burroughs entitled ' The Priest They Called Him '.

Gus Van Sant produced and directed a short film of William S. Burroughs

Thanksgiving Prayer (1991) dir. Gus van Sant. From the video "Buried Treasures vol. 1: The Directors."

Van Sant did at least four projects involving William Burroughs, including a music CD, two short films, and a motion picture:

Elvis Of Letters (1985) Music: William S. Burroughs,Gus Van Sant

The Discipline of DE (1978) Gus Van Sant (9 min, 16 mm black and white, adaptation of William S. Burroughs' short story, narrated by Ken Shapiro)

Thanksgiving Prayer (1991) Gus Van Sant (2 min, 35 mm color, written by and starring William S. Burroughs)

Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (1993) Gus Van Sant (feature length film, features a diverse cast [Keanu Reeves, Roseanne Barr, Uma Thurman, Rain Phoenix, and k.d. lang], with cameos by William S. Burroughs and Heather Graham,

Some more interesting tidbits here:

Gus Van Sant wrote and directed 'Last Days' , a film about the final hours of Kurt Cobain.

Van Sant's 'My Own Private Idaho' features a 'Brokeback Mountain' style campfire scene between Keanu Reaves and River Phoenix

River Phoenix and Kurt Cobain died within six months of each other, both of a heroin overdose.

Gus Van Sant wrote and directed 'Even Cowgirls Get the Blues', a lesbian version of Brokeback Mountain.

Heath Ledger starred as a gay cowboy in Brokeback Mountain.

Peter Weller played the part of William S. Burroughs in 'Naked Lunch'.

Peter Weller starred opposite Heath Ledger in 'The Order' .

Heath Ledger died, like Cobain , in his late twenties, alone, involving a drug overdose.

Cobain did a music project (background music) with author William Burroughs reading his story titled 'Junky's Christmas'(aka 'The Priest they called him').

Burroughs killed his wife at a party in Mexico, shooting her in the head.

Cobain was shot in the head weeks after meeting Burroughs at his cottage.

Courtney Love played the role of Burrough's murdered wife in the movie 'Beat', starring Keifer Sutherland.

[mrguitarbear]

http://www.morethings.com/music/david_bowie/david-bowie-110.jpg

David Bowie with William Burroughs.

Kurt Cobain covered David Bowie's song ' The Man who Sold the World ' for the ' MTV Unplugged ' album , which was the first posthumous Cobain / Nirvana release ( Ist November 1994 ).

[brown velvet]

also they all end up loving her, no matter what story they all love her and are sad when she leaves. well that's just one more Mk reference. the victims will love their Programmer. it sounds crazy at first but read some victim accounts. i mean victims of Mengele for example did not hate him, no they adored him, loved him, almost worshiped him even tho he was one cruel sadistic in-human bastard. that shows what Mk can do, but also why it's so important for the Illumies.

I think it is also a play on human nature, counting on something natural and making it seem 'normal' because it is, bizarre and confusing, still normal behaviour though. Stockholm Syndrome. Daisy proging. If your life depends on forgetting how much you hate / fear someone....

Umberellas hmmmm :(

It seems a vast subject. Always keep it simple is my best motto.
Protection is the first thing, curl up tightly, understand how a tortoise protects, a shell, shaped like an umberella? Sounds like great word play / confusion / layering, when is a shell not a shell? When it's an umberalla.

each spoke to the centre of the umberella

division 'spatial placement'

furled and unfurled very easily


brown.

[mrguitarbear]

each spoke to the centre of the umberella

division 'spatial placement'

furled and unfurled very easily


brown.

The controller at the centre connected to the slaves at the end of each spoke.

Easy to open - i.e. to open up to suggestion. Easy to open up an ' alter ' that is pliable rather than ' closed ' to suggestions or orders.

The idea of protection , of something all encompassing , that what is done is for the protection and the good of the slave.

Something thats always above you , always over you - like the strings of a marionette.

[soulja]

scene from the musical ''Wicked''
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i49/blondeheroine/ElphabaGlindaOneShortDay.jpg

in the back you see the Emerald City

Oz is shaped like a Mandala with Emerald City in the center, an impassable barrier, four-sidedness, 4 symbolic colors, the circle and the center. The colors and directions given in Oz may also have other symbolic meanings in the occult. For instance, Emerald City is green and green is the fourth point of the Eastern Star (women’s Freemasonry) & Satan’s color. A The route that Dorothy follows in Oz has the shape of a T with its 3 points defining an inverted triangle

Emerald City is used in programming. Emerald City in the programming will be well guarded and hard to reach. Several important things will be placed inside the Emerald City, including the deeper Illuminati alters.

pg. 87 Book 1 The Wizard of Oz, “Scarlet poppies...their odor is so powerful that anyone who breathes it falls asleep, and if the sleeper is not carried away from the scent of the flowers he sleeps on and on forever. But Dorothy did not know this, nor could she get away from the bright red flowers that were everywhere about; so presently her eyes grew heavy and she felt she must sit down to rest and to sleep.” This is an important part of the programming. This is the story line for trancing deep. pg. 112 Book 1 The Wizard of Oz, “Then the Guardian of the Gates put on his own glasses and told them he was ready to show them to the palace. Taking a big golden key from a peg on the wall he opened another gate, and they all followed him through the portal into the streets of the Emerald City.” This is helpful imagery in setting up the internal Emerald City and its guards.

the guardian uses the key to unlock the gate to emerald city (deep/important altars) you'll often see celebrities wear a key around their neck or wrist.

cisco wrote
The structures (the images) that are built into the mind of the Monarch slave are not trivial. An overview of the structures that are in our System alone will show that they went to a great deal of effort to build all kinds of internal worlds to house our thousands of alters. A list of the internal structures that were contained in our System follows: Ant pits, Bee Traps w/ swarms, Black Glass Wall, Black Holes (vortexes), Boxes (Dr. Green’s under J.J., boxes have buttons which access certain parts), Candyland, Carpet (Magic), Castles, Castle dungeon (torture chambers), Caves, Clocks (there are several incl. computer clocks), Concentration camp, Cords, Desert, Doll House, numbered Doors by the thousands w/ red hot nobs, Elevators, Emerald City (connected to the castle), Eucalyptus Trees, Fields of “forget me” & island of “forget me not” (JJ’s Prgrmg), Firewall, 2 Forests (singing forest with Cedars of Lebanon and Oaks, and a dwarfs forest which has 3 kinds of trees), Fruit Tree (programming tree), Glass, Glass coffin, Golden Keys, Graveyards, Hallways with red doors, Hell Pit or Hell Fire (7 levels--pepperbox. There is a glassy wall before the hell pit.), Hour Glass (matrix), House of David, Icetown, Invisible Countries, Keys (clock key), Libraries, Light side City, Marshlands, Mazes, Mirrors (constructed via access permissions) (One-way), Moat, Mountains, Nursery (glass), Ocean, Paper Trees, Petra Secret City, Playground, Poppy field, Portals (for altars and demons, like the third eye), Rubicon (outer space beyond the stars), Rivers (Nile, Rio Grande, Shenandoah, etc.), Room behind a closet (existence not confirmed), Seeds, Serpent tree, Shafts, Shells, Shifting sands, Shoes (gold, silver, and ruby slippers), Snake pits (traps), Spider chambers, Stairway, Torpedo Town, Tin Woodsman’s Castle, Tree with square paper boxes containing Dad’s music programming, Trojan Horse w/ armies, Tunnels, Valley of the Dry Bones, Volcano (to destroy & remake the system), Vortices (see Black Holes), Wasteland, Water (Moats), Waterfalls, Wind, Wires, Worms, and a Yellow Brick Road.”

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0688115586.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
this one gives me strong masonic vibe, the two pillars jachin and boaz, also the pyramid with eye in the back

anyway, how does one find the emerald city ? if one follows the yellow brick road.
the yeallow brick road leads to emerald city and slaves are told to follow it constantly.
http://globalmoxie.com/bm~pix/emerald-city~s600x600.jpg

http://emeraldcitytheatre.com/images/tasteball.gif
http://emeraldcitytheatre.com/tasteof.shtml

http://www.emeraldcityimports.com/nippon-k/EC-Logos.JPG

http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/0/Q/F/eccclogo.jpg

http://www.san-diego-hotel-discount.com/images/hotel/Wyndham%20Emerald%20Plaza%20Hotel%20San%20Diego%20 California%20CA.jpg
Wyndham Emerald Plaza Hotel in San Diego

http://www.rachelmiller.info/images/linkso1-cross-dresser-support/Emerald%20City%20Social%20Club.jpg
part of crossdresser support groups :eek: http://www.rachelmiller.info/linkso1.htm

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[soulja]

the guardian uses the key to unlock the gate to emerald city (deep/important altars) you'll often see celebrities wear a key around their neck or wrist.



http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/mk/262271Avril-Lavigne-Posters.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/riribraless.jpg
Rihanna famous for ''her'' Umbrella song.. ( in the song's hook she repeats ''under my umbrella'' 3 times)

[brown velvet]

I'm not 100 percent sure what it excately means but like i said i notice this kind of symbolism quite alot.
imo it's referring to mindcontrol and/or possesion of some sorts.

theres a programing technique used were the victim is forced to watch high speed films. on one eye they're shown good films and on the other horror films. it's known as split brain programming.

fffffffff

[soulja]

fffffffff

:confused:

[soulja]

when slaves switch alters they won't remember what they did while being that former altar. also after programing sessions or carrying out their assigned task i.e sexual servicing some politician they will get electro-shocked to wipe out the memory.

so when you don't remember something, or for example how you got somewhere what do you say ? i have a black out.

http://popbytes.com/img/britney-top10-07.jpg
she holds her head, like she can't remember..

[brown velvet]

I'm not 100 percent sure what it excately means but like i said i notice this kind of symbolism quite alot.
imo it's referring to mindcontrol and/or possesion of some sorts.

theres a programing technique used were the victim is forced to watch high speed films. on one eye they're shown good films and on the other horror films. it's known as split brain programming.

Hiya,

I'd like to thank the cat for sending the 'fffffffffff' message lolololol

I was going to say that C/Work Orange is easily the best way of seeing split stem progging, even though we see him being made to watch severe violence with both eyes, they divide the images to a different one for each eye, then different music in each ear, 'family/friends' etc one side, 'violence/blud/gore' in the other?

fear based? You bet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzOJZWZJdA

trauma is more severe on left eye, as I think that LHS (left hand side) is responsible for what the RHS of the brain uses and is targetting, namely 'non-verbal'

http://www.viewzone.com/bicam.html


brown.

[hunkahunka]

fantastic

pg. 87 Book 1 The Wizard of Oz, “Scarlet poppies...their odor is so powerful that anyone who breathes it falls asleep, and if the sleeper is not carried away from the scent of the flowers he sleeps on and on forever. But Dorothy did not know this, nor could she get away from the bright red flowers that were everywhere about; so presently her eyes grew heavy and she felt she must sit down to rest and to sleep.”

re: the scarlet red poppies, this reminded me of Nirvana's video for the song
Heart Shaped Box, complete with red poppies, witches hat near the end,
and Krist Novoselic dancing suggestively in pink pants then sitting on the bed
and putting his arm around DAve Grohl.
the song itself is very difficult to understand. It sounds like it is about being
trapped in a state of mind control (his controller Courtney Love?}

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK7Ai9dWrRQ

[soulja]

funny you mention clockwork orange cos it crossed my mind when i was typing that post you quoted. i thought of adding this pic

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock/flashpoints/theater/images/clockwork_big.jpg
(btw did you figure out how to post pics yet?)

but then decided against it cos he's shown the pictures on both eyes.

as for the ffffff - i love cats, brilliant animals, and you can't train them like dogs they just do what they want. i like that kinda attitude :cool:

something different, i just came across that pic from the movie britney played in, called crossroads.
i believe theres relevance to the term in MK but i can't remember why. maybe you know more ?

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00006JY2I.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[miss_splitfoot]

"Umbrella" was not originally written for Rihanna. Christopher "Tricky" Stewart composed the song in 2007, with American pop singer Britney Spears in mind. wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_(song))

nice tat, rihanna:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/velvetppg/rihanna-chrisbrown-photos-040908-09.jpg



ANYHOW!!! i wanted to post in this thread about Kurt Cobain, but i was sidetracked by kylie & the thin white duke/ziggy stardust/aladdin sane et al alters...

i don't believe for a second that the CIA had anything to do with his death (neither was he an MK slave). Courtney Love invented a story that Kurt had been driven to suicide because he overused the DreamMachine (this is the Burroughs connection) to spread misinformation & cover up the real reason he died (murder by C Love & associates).
Dream Machine Weaver (http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/dreamachine/cobaindream.html)


EDIT:“Umbrella” – The Occult Connection - By Roger Marshall (http://bajanreporter.blogspot.com/2008/05/barbadian-christian-alleges-umbrella.html)

[soulja]

re: the scarlet red poppies, this reminded me of Nirvana's video for the song
Heart Shaped Box, complete with red poppies, witches hat near the end,
and Krist Novoselic dancing suggestively in pink pants then sitting on the bed
and putting his arm around DAve Grohl.
the song itself is very difficult to understand. It sounds like it is about being
trapped in a state of mind control (his controller Courtney Love?}

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK7Ai9dWrRQ

can't tell you what the text is about but god that video is weird.. some scenes remind me at marion peck and co's art.. also cannibalistic allusions imo.. then that child dressed in white and towards the end in black, switching alters? good personality bad personality kinda thing ? also the ritualistic/secret society/little wizard kinda outfit..

and the songtitle alone is interesting,

from deeper insights (writing about disney's fantasia)


25.5 min. The leaves are now floating up and down, like the alters will learn to do. "SOME FALL TO THE GROUND AND DIE." This is the point where the story of the Oak Tree will be added in for programming. When the Illuminati programmers want "to destroy" an alter they can use the chandelier-MT 6:22-23 torture mentioned on page 310 of the Vol. 2 Formula book, and then have the splintered alters become leaves that fall to the ground and die. After this, these disobedient and now "dead" alters can be taken & be dissociated from their memories. The memories are locked up someplace permanent within the mind.

26. min. Out of a leaf like "box" come a series of fairies. The child is taught to put things (such as alters) in boxes of various shapes.

so Nirvana sitting inside a box could be telling us about certain alter(s) of them put in a heart shaped box.

[brown velvet]

so Nirvana sitting inside a box could be telling us about certain alter(s) of them put in a heart shaped box.


Some alters believe they have no hearts.
Could be an actual heart?
Grunge/Cobain angst teens (alters) in the box?


brown.


I love cat's, independent.






Excerpts from a Dog's Diary...

8:00 am - Dog food! My favourite thing!
9:30 am - A car ride! My favourite thing!
9:40 am - A walk in the park! My favourite thing!
10:30 am - Got rubbed and petted! My favourite thing!
12:00 pm - Lunch! My favourite thing!
1:00 pm - Played in the yard! My favourite thing!
3:00 pm - Wagged my tail! My favourite thing!
5:00 pm - Milk bones! My favourite thing!
7:00 pm - Got to play ball! My favourite thing!
8:00 pm - Wow! Watched TV with the people! My favourite thing!
11:00 pm - Sleeping on the bed! My favourite thing!

Excerpts from a Cat's Diary...

Day 983 of my captivity.
My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects.

They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while the other inmates and I are fed hash or some sort of dry nuggets. Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength.

The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape. In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the carpet.

Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates what I am capable of. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a 'good little hunter' I am. Bastards.

There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. However, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to the power of 'allergies.' I must learn what this means and how to use it to my advantage.

Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow -- but at the top of the stairs.

I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches. The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released - and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded.

The bird has got to be an informant. I observe him communicating with the guards regularly. I am certain that he reports my every move. My captors have arranged protective custody for him in an elevated cell, so he is safe. For now.........

well, it made me laugh

:D

[miss_splitfoot]

Some alters believe they have no hearts.
Could be an actual heart?
Grunge/Cobain angst teens (alters) in the box?




he wrote the song after he found a heart shaped chocolate box filled with love notes from CL's ex-boyfriends, plus after she met him for the second time, she posted him a heart shaped box with sea shells & tiny porcelain dolls in it. the whole song's about their bad marriage.

[soulja]

Excerpts from a Dog's Diary...

8:00 am - Dog food! My favourite thing!
9:30 am - A car ride! My favourite thing!
9:40 am - A walk in the park! My favourite thing!
10:30 am - Got rubbed and petted! My favourite thing!
12:00 pm - Lunch! My favourite thing!
1:00 pm - Played in the yard! My favourite thing!
3:00 pm - Wagged my tail! My favourite thing!
5:00 pm - Milk bones! My favourite thing!
7:00 pm - Got to play ball! My favourite thing!
8:00 pm - Wow! Watched TV with the people! My favourite thing!
11:00 pm - Sleeping on the bed! My favourite thing!

Excerpts from a Cat's Diary...

Day 983 of my captivity.
My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects.

They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while the other inmates and I are fed hash or some sort of dry nuggets. Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength.

The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape. In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the carpet.

Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates what I am capable of. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a 'good little hunter' I am. Bastards.

There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. However, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to the power of 'allergies.' I must learn what this means and how to use it to my advantage.

Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow -- but at the top of the stairs.

I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches. The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released - and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded.

The bird has got to be an informant. I observe him communicating with the guards regularly. I am certain that he reports my every move. My captors have arranged protective custody for him in an elevated cell, so he is safe. For now.........

well, it made me laugh

:D

pure genius - best post ever :D

[hunkahunka]

can't tell you what the text is about but god that video is weird.. some scenes remind me at marion peck and co's art.. also cannibalistic allusions imo.. then that child dressed in white and towards the end in black, switching alters? good personality bad personality kinda thing ? also the ritualistic/secret society/little wizard kinda outfit..
and the songtitle alone is interesting,
from deeper insights (writing about disney's fantasia)
so Nirvana sitting inside a box could be telling us about certain alter(s) of them put in a heart shaped box.

I think you are right about the mk box being applicable here.
You see cannibalistic allusions , and I think so too.
The fetuses hang from the tree like apples, with the little girl jumping
trying to reach them.


http://www.oobleck.com/tollbooth/archives/2002/11/everyone_is_a_moon_and_has_a_d.html
Andrew Sullivan is puzzled at this entry in Kurt Cobain's journals ("I like to make incisions into the belly of infants then fuck the incisions until the child dies,") and why Newsweek did not publish it when it printed some of its excerpts.

Cobain is also known to have at one point decorated a room with bloody baby
dolls hanging from strings.

Was witnessing real baby killing part of his earlier childhood mk trauma conditioning?

[miss_splitfoot]

ohhh, i give up :rolleyes:

[thirdwave]

I personally think Courtney Love had Kurt murdered.

Grunge was NEVER a rebellious movement really , it was about apathy - ' Here we are now , Entertain Us '. Grunge appealed to slackers who didn't really care about politics or rebellion , who were a bit depressed maybe.

I could not disagree more... grunge was one of the most genuine real movements ever... the reason it was down beat is because that's how the kids felt... they were pissed off and depressed at where and what they were...

It makes me scratch me head when people have a go at down beat music... When your pissed off you don't want to smile!

expression is a powerful thing.... and grunge music was pure expression.. it was real.... just because it was not happy clappy music it does not mean it was not positive... it was the voice of a generation... a real voice... what is the vice today?

Arctic monkeys singing about a pare of socks? ...

since grunge died... (after the press had to work hard to make it out of date) music has never been the same ..it was the last of rock n roll... for that alone I would not count out he was killed.

Grunge music was not about what you wore... how well mixed your tracks where.... or how glossed up the band was... it was about keeping it real... how could you say a song like "come as you are" is apathy??

it was pure aggression and expressing ones suffocation ....

"here we are now, entertain us" Fits perfect for a generation being herded like sheep into a NWO.... what else should they say? .. "here we are now, aint things just swell!" that was not what kids wanted to hear.... they wanted to hear somone tell the fucking truth... and the truth is not always pretty! but its effective.

when was the last time you hear someone on the radio with as much genuine emotion as Kurt Cobain or Eddie Veddar?

now heart and soul is un cool and out of date!.... to heavy and emotional for people to deal with... they want people singing about loosing their jumper on the dance floor.

[amethyst]

"here we are now, entertain us" Fits perfect for a generation being herded like sheep into a NWO.... what else should they say? .. "here we are now, aint things just swell!" that was not what kids wanted to hear.... they wanted to hear somone tell the fucking truth... and the truth is not always pretty! but its effective.

when was the last time you hear someone on the radio with as much genuine emotion as Kurt Cobain or Eddie Veddar?

now heart and soul is un cool and out of date!.... to heavy and emotional for people to deal with... they want people singing about loosing their jumper on the dance floor.

Yeah, this is part of the plan, the agenda....to desensitize the world into becoming emotionless zombies, not caring about anyone or anything.

But to be fully human is to "feel"....and not become jaded.

The nwo just manipulated genuine people's feelings by using Kurt and then turned around and killed him. They wanted to try and destroy people's genuine emotions

But resisting apathy is part of resisting the NWO, IMO.

[thirdwave]

Yeah, this is part of the plan, the agenda....to desensitize the world into becoming emotionless zombies, not caring about anyone or anything.

But to be fully human is to "feel"....and not become jaded.

The nwo just manipulated genuine people's feelings by using Kurt and then turned around and killed him. They wanted to try and destroy people's genuine emotions

But resisting apathy is part of resisting the NWO, IMO.

apathy is what you hear on the radio now.... ignorant to all the shit going on and all the emotional oppression that is on us..

the first time I heard Curt screaming his head off I had never heard anything like it.... it was almost funny at first... then you realised how fantastic the song was ... and boom!

did not sound like he did not give a shit to me...

sounded like he wash shreaking from the very depths of his guts.

[hunkahunka]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/mattlcohen/boygeorge.jpg
Boy George

[amethyst]

apathy is what you hear on the radio now.... ignorant to all the shit going on and all the emotional oppression that is on us..

the first time I heard Curt screaming his head off I had never heard anything like it.... it was almost funny at first... then you realised how fantastic the song was ... and boom!

did not sound like he did not give a shit to me...

sounded like he wash shreaking from the very depths of his guts.

oh, I agree...he was definitely...just that, the nwo didn't want his message to continue, so they bumped him off.

[hunkahunka]

http://curvature.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/rosie-2.jpg?w=492&h=785
This is a real doll of outspoken lesbian celebrity Rosie O'Donnell.

[monkey]

Excerpts from a Cat's Diary...

Day 983 of my captivity...............

No, no , you got it all wrong,
You see, .........the cats ACTUALLY rule US.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Cats

rom wikipedia -

The Cat is an immortal animal first invented by the Egyptians, who were in short supply of gods at the time. Frequently, attempts at domestication fail miserably, as cats prefer ruling humans over being ruled by humans, but this hasn't stopped man from trying. Cats will never be man's best friend because cats don't want friends. Many humans currently believe in a theory suggesting that there was a big explosion that formed the universe, but modern historians and archaeologists now speculate that the it was actually created by cats. Not much is known about this theory, but it is the truth and we all know it.

Many very foolish people like to claim that if cats had opposable thumbs and could use can-openers, they would replace humans as the dominant species on Earth. This is very silly. Cats do not need opposable thumbs and do not need to use can-openers. Instead they have domesticated a semi-intelligent species, with opposable thumbs, to open cans full of cat-food for them.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law_application_for_antigravitatory_cat s

[brown velvet]

The Cat is an immortal animal first invented by the Egyptians, who were in short supply of gods at the time. Frequently, attempts at domestication fail miserably, as cats prefer ruling humans over being ruled by humans, but this hasn't stopped man from trying. Cats will never be man's best friend because cats don't want friends. Many humans currently believe in a theory suggesting that there was a big explosion that formed the universe, but modern historians and archaeologists now speculate that the it was actually created by cats. Not much is known about this theory, but it is the truth and we all know it.

Many very foolish people like to claim that if cats had opposable thumbs and could use can-openers, they would replace humans as the dominant species on Earth. This is very silly. Cats do not need opposable thumbs and do not need to use can-openers. Instead they have domesticated a semi-intelligent species, with opposable thumbs, to open cans full of cat-food for them.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law_application_for_antigravitatory_cat s



love it, and my cats :) I am the best 'semi-intelligent species, with opposable thumbs, to open cans full of cat-food for them' that they will ever find :D


brown.

[soulja]

brown velvet: open cans of cat food - my favourite thing! :D

on a more serious note, you shouldn't feed your cats canned food imo..

[soulja]

http://curvature.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/rosie-2.jpg?w=492&h=785
This is a real doll of outspoken lesbian celebrity Rosie O'Donnell.

Rosie o'Donnel eh?
''funny'' how the star ''for you'' is written on is a reversed pentagram.

i looked a bit into the history of barbie dolls and came across this lady here

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/todo/RUTHHANDLER.jpg
Ruth Handler

Ruth Handler invented an anatomically improbable molded plastic statuette named Barbie. Since its debut in 1959, the Barbie doll has become an American icon that functions as both a steady outlet for girls' dreams and an ever changing reflection of American society. This can be seen in the history of Barbie's clothes, and even her various "face lifts" to suit the times; in her professional, political and charitable endeavors; and more recently in the multi-culturalizingof her product line.

Inventor: Ruth Handler
Criteria: First to invent. First to patent. Entrepreneur.
Birth: November. 4, 1916 in Denver, Colorado, Ruth Mosko
Death: April 27, 2002 in Los Angeles, California
Nationality: American, of Polish immigrant parents..
Invention: Barbie® doll in 1959
Princess of Ireland Barbie courtesy Mattel, Inc
Function: noun / Trademark (Reg, U,S.)
Definition: A small-scale anatomically improbable molded plastic figure of a human being used especially as a child's plaything. Collectable doll.
Trademark: Reg. No. 0689055 issued December 1, 1959
Milestones:

1916 Ruth Mosko was born November. 4, 1916 in Denver, Colorado

1938 Ruth married Elliot Handler

1945 Mattel founded by Harold Matson, Elliot Handler and Ruth Handler to make picture frames

1946 Matson sells his interest to the Handlers. Mattel makes and sells doll house furniture

1959 Ruth invents a three dimension doll named Barbie

1960 The success of the Barbie doll led Mattel to become a publicly-owned company

1967 Ruth Handler becomes President of Mattel, Inc.

1974 The Handlers leave the Mattel company

2002 On April 27, Ruth Handler dies in Los Angeles, California after a long fight against cancer
barbie, barbie doll, Ruth Handler, Elliot Handler, Harold Matson, Mattel, inventor, biography, profile, history, inventor of, history of, who invented, invention of, fascinating facts.

STORY:
Since its debut in 1959, an anatomically improbable molded plastic statuette named Barbie has become an icon. Ruth Handler undeniably invented an American icon that functions as both a steady outlet for girls' dreams and an ever changing reflection of American society. This can be seen in the history of Barbie's clothes, and even her various "face lifts" to suit the times; in her professional, political and charitable endeavors; and more recently in the multi-culturalizing of her product line.

The Mattel company traces its beginnings to 1945, when a fledgling Mattel began operating out of a garage workshop. The original founders were Harold Matson, Elliot Handler and Ruth Handler, who coined "Mattel" by combining letters of their last and first names. The first Mattel product was picture frames, but Elliot soon developed a side business in doll house furniture made from picture frame scraps— which led to an emphasis on toys.

Matson soon sold out to his partners, and Elliot and his wife, Ruth, steadily expanded Mattel’s product line. Encouraged by the success of the doll furniture, they turned the company’s emphasis to toys. The Uke-A-Doodle, a child-size ukulele, was the first in a line of musical toys. A hand-crank, patented music box gave Mattel its first "staple" business, and versions of this product helped generate much of the company’s revenue in the ‘50s and ‘60s. In 1955, Mattel also introduced another highly successful product, the Burp Gun, an automatic cap gun based on a patented mechanism.

Also in 1955 came another, even more important turning point for Mattel. In a move that would eventually revolutionize the way toys were marketed, the Handlers bought 52 weeks of advertising on the new "Mickey Mouse Club" television show, marking the first time toys had been advertised on a year-round basis. In conjunction with the company’s sponsorship of the show, Mattel introduced a child-size "Mouseguitar," which became an instant sensation in the industry.

Mattel followed its musical toy success with a line of replica rifles and guns that reflected the 1950s popularity of Western-themed television shows like "Bonanza" and "Gunsmoke."

In 1959, Ruth Handler became convinced, from watching her daughter, Barbara, play with paper dolls, that girls use dolls to act out future, rather than current, roles. (Barbara consistently preferred teenager or career women cutouts to babies or children.) “I believed it was important to a little girl’s self-esteem,” Handler has said, “to play with a doll that has breasts.” Ruth Handler suggested making a three-dimensional doll through which little girls could act out their dreams.

She named the doll "Barbie," which was the nickname of her real-life daughter. The doll was loosely based on a racy German comic-book character named Lilli, Barbie was introduced at the 1959 toy fair in New York City. By that summer, the doll had rocketed to the top of every American girl’s wish list.

The success of the Barbie doll led Mattel to become a publicly-owned company in 1960. Within five years, Mattel would join the ranks of companies on the Fortune list of the 500 largest U.S. industrial companies.

The early ‘60s also saw Mattel entering the worldwide toy market. The Barbie doll and other products were first test-marketed overseas in 1963, and were received so favorably that many products began to be manufactured under licensing agreements arranged by the company in England, France, Germany, South Africa, Italy and Mexico. In 1964, a wholly-owned subsidiary, Mattel S.A., opened its first sales office in Switzerland as a headquarters for the company’s worldwide marketing program.

During the ‘60s, the company created some of its most successful early products, including Thingmaker (featuring Creepy Crawlers) and two classic talking toys, Chatty Cathy and See ‘N Say. In 1968, Mattel introduced Hot Wheels miniature vehicles, another landmark product that helped the company reach out and capture boys’ imaginations the way the Barbie doll did for girls. In 1998, Hot Wheels celebrated its 30th anniversary and reached a milestone when the two-billionth car was produced. That makes Mattel the producer of more vehicles than Detroit’s big three car manufacturers combined.

By the early ‘70s, Mattel was generating $300 million in annual revenues. During this time period, the company began to diversify, acquiring a number of non-toy companies. These included Ringling Brothers And Barnum And Bailey Circus; Circus World, a theme park;

Metaframe, a pet products company; Turco, a manufacturer of playground equipment; Western Publishing Company, publishing under the popular Golden Book name; and even a motion picture production company—Radnitz/Mattel Productions—which produced the Academy Award-nominated feature film "Sounder."
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/handler.htm

[soulja]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/Hideout/disney1.jpg
''the Disney Keys(triggers) to Excellence(Mk)'' all presented by the Disney Institute


Disney has not only left mind-control victims in its wake, but they have harassed land-owners, stolen employee idea's and left all kinds of hurting victims in their path. Disney has risen to become the unquestionable largest media-entertainment conglomerate in the world, and was ranked company no. 48 in the top 500 companies by Forbes 500.
Observations about HOW THE ILLUMINATI LIKE TO HIDE BEHIND PERFECT FRONTS.

There are numerous Illuminati homes, restaurants, wineries and other institutions that are today carrying out the same type of strict standards upon their employees that Walt Disney Studios maintained. While Hollywood was immersed in moral filth from the start, Walt Disney Studios had strict standards. In the 1930's, Disney had a dress code that required men in ties, and women in sober-colored skirts. If a man looked lecherously at a woman at Walt Disney Studios he risked being instantly fired. Walt was a shining example of the strictest legalism. Even during the '50's, if an employee were caught saying anything considered a cussword such as "hell" they were instantly fired no matter who they were. Walt would not allow his male employees to have any facial hair, even though he himself sported a mustache. He never allowed employees to have alcohol at the studios, (which might not be a noteworthy standard except that Walt himself drank heavy amounts of alcohol in his private office at work for decades). Initially, Walt was very reluctant to have his young artists, who were being trained by Don Graham, draw live nude models, but reluctantly gave approval. Again the motive was not to serve God, but to make sure the Disney reputation remained untarnished. With the power of the establishment media behind Disney, Walt had nothing to worry about, news about the nude drawing classes and their detailed drawings never reached the light of day. Behind such strict fronts of legalistic morals, cleanliness and soberness, you will often find lots of guilt and high level satanic ritual. For instance, Hitler (who was by the way also a failed artist and who liked mechanical things more than people) obsessively washed his hands many times a day (out of guilt), and so did Walt Disney. Walt obsessively washed his hands several times an hour, every hour. Walt liked animals and his trains more than people. This author has seen some alters who were forced to take another human's life, and when they relived the memory, the alters then tried to physically wash the blood guilt off of their hands. Another example is that over the years this author has discovered that many of the exclusive restaurants that are meticulous in every detail are tied in with the mind-control and criminal activities of the elite. Dirty money is keeping the places looking sparkling clean.

Walt Disney worked very hard at maintaining a great image for himself and his company. An example of this, is how he exploded in rage and wrote an angry memo when a Disney character was placed in a beer ad. (Memo mentioned in Thomas, Bob. Walt Disney An American Original. Hyperion, 1994, p. 7.) He had a personal image builder, Joe Reddy, who worked full time to build Walt's image. Joe Reddy was a cigar-smoking irishman who loved the catholic college Notre Dame's football team. He also was a publicity agent for Shirley Temple. But the Disney deception entails far more than Joe Reddy's decades of image making, and Walt's own abilities to create good images of himself. Just as with Billy Graham (see Vol. 2 about Billy Graham), the entire Illuminati threw their weight behind promoting Walt Disney. Ronald Reagan and Walt Disney were good friends and both cut from the same die in many ways. Both men were high ranking Freemasons, both came from socialist backgrounds (Ronald's mother was Eleanor Roosevelt's best friend, and Walt's Dad was a socialist leader), both were paid FBI informants, and both were involved heavily in the abuse of mind-controlled slaves. Walt always generously supported Reagan's political campaigns, and in turn Reagan did political favors for Walt as Gov. of California. For instance, Disney's Mineral King mountain resort needed an access route through the Sequoia Nat. Park at a time when there was lots of congressional pressure to preserve the last stands of redwoods. Gov. Reagan got his friend Disney his road through the park.

Reagan served as the emcee for the opening day of Disneyland on July 17, 1990. He returned with Illuminati TV host Art Linkletter for the 35th anniversary. Ronald Reagan and Art Linkletter both pumped Disney publicly. Another slave abuser that spent time with Disney was Bob Hope, who would spend time on the golf course with Walt. On the opening day's telecast, cameras showed Sammy Davis, Jr. (a member of the Church of Satan) and Frank Sinatra (a mind-control slave handler) driving the pint-sized Disney ears at the Autopia ride. When Disney celebrated its fifty yr-anniversary with a two hour special on May 20, 1991, the program included people like occultist Bill Campbell and was named "Best of Disney, 50 Years of Magic." For the silver anniversary of Disney World in Oct. '96, the Clinton's were invited to help open 15 months of celebrations. The theme of the anniversary celebrations was "Remember the Magic". A Boy's and Girl's Club sang �eWhen you wish upon a star' (a popular programming song). Hillary Rodham Clinton (herself an Illuminati Grand Dame and a mind-control programmer) shared with the audience that she and Bill "first brought daughter Chelsea to the Magic Kingdom when she was four." Roy E. Disney, nephew of Walt, told the public that Disney World "is the story of men and women who took hold of a dream and never let go." There is a double meaning to that. Many victims of trauma-based mind-control have taken hold of the illusions that were programmed into their mind secretly at Disney, and never let go. Among the visitors to Disneyland have been all the American Presidents from Eisenhower to Clinton, over a dozen kings and queens, as well as Emperor Akihito of Japan, Anwar Sadat, and Robert Kennedy (who rode the Matterhorn with astronaut John Glenn.) Both Denmark's and Belgium's kings who are in the Illuminati visited, as well as the dictators of Indonesia, the Shah of Iran and Ceausescu of Romania. (As a side-note Roy E. Disney was forewarned by Arab leader that the Shah was to be deposed.) Organizations that have been actively working for a New World Order for many years gave big awards to Walt in his early years such as the B'nai B'rith (Man of the Year Award to Walt) and the Chamber of Commerce. In 1936, Walt was given the Chamber of Commerce's annual ,,Outstanding Young Man" award. The establishment's Yale and Harvard Universities gave him honorary degrees. Walt Disney biographer Leonard Mosley, who researched Walt Disney for years (as well as writing books on the duPonts, the Dulles brothers, and Hirohito) wrote in his book on Walt Disney, "The studio publicity machines in the film colony had, as usual, gone out of their way to try to persuade me, as a writer for a powerfully influential British newspaper, that this was a city of lawless gods and goddesses, full of clean-living, sanitized stars.

"It was even more of a deodorized world at the Walt Disney Studio where the publicity men insisted their boss was faultless--never drank too much, never used a swearword, never lost his temper, never quarreled with his wife or family, never let down a friend. And woe betide anyone who tried to suggest otherwise. Members of the resident foreign and local press risked their jobs if they dared to write stories inferring that Walt Disney could be domineering, implacable, and unforgiving (as was the case, for instance, before, during, and after the 1941 studio strike). The Disney flacks were capable of exerting heavy pressure on editors and proprietors or, through the advertising pages, against anyone who inferred Walt Disney was not the epitome of well-scrubbed and benevolent perfection." (Mosley, Leonard. Disney's World. New York: Stein and Day, p. 10.) Disney is perhaps the epitome of Illuminati abilities to create images. They have created great images for things Disney, incl. Walt Disney, Disney movies, and Disney's Amusement parks. In some cases these things have been overrated, in other instances the sinister side to them has been carefully hidden. In order to make movies that contain the typical smut of Hollywood, sex and violence, Disney did a slight of hand and created subsidiaries which Disney runs, which has allowed them to keep their good image. They also never showed the public the hard core porn that was made for years in secrecy for the elite. Behind Disney's good front lies hard porn, snuff films, white slavery, Illuminati mind-control, and the seduction of several generations into witchcraft. Disney's involvement in these kind of things will be explained in this chapter. Nobody has sold America witchcraft as well as the Disney brothers. Movie after movie has cleverly brought the occult into the warp and woof of American thought, all under the disguise of entertainment. For instance, it was Disney that brought us cannibalism and told us that it was a "triumph of the human spirit" (a direct quote from Disney's Touchtone Producer Robert Watts concerning Disney's movie "Alive" featuring survivors of an airplane crash who turned to cannibalism). Under the disguise of entertainment and showing us how "triumphant" the human spirit was, they subtly promoted cannibalism. Mickey Mouse plays a leading role in "The Sorcerer's Apprentice." And yet when this author has suggested that Disney movies aren't wholesome, many Christian parents come unglued and have gotten angry with this author. The deceptive image that Disney movies are wholesome is a triumph in Illuminati deception. Parents would be surprised what is slipped into cartoons. In Disney's "The Little Mermaid" the castles are male sexual organs. In one cartoon Mighty Mouse is shown without comment clearly snorting cocaine. Walt Disney Studios Chairman Joe Roth is in charge of Walt Disney as well as subsidiaries Touchtone, Miramax, and Hollywood Pictures, which were all created to camouflage the Disney production of adult films. Disney operates in a clandestine manner regarding the promotion, distribution and rating of the films produced by their subsidiaries.

[thirdwave]

oh, I agree...he was definitely...just that, the nwo didn't want his message to continue, so they bumped him off.

mmmm would not shock me if he was..

[soulja]

When a slave is being programmed, the abusers will use schools, churches, Big Brothers, Boy Scouts and other activities to carry out the abuse and programming. Children pulled from classes will be given back-up amnesia so that they forget that they forgot. In other words, they are totally unaware that they have lost time when they were pulled out of the classroom. The teacher gives them a test score, and they are told they took a test during the missing time. How can the front alters deny it, when they have been hypnotized to believe it and they can see the test scores? Alter boys and boys at catholic orphanages have a record of being used by dirty priests. Recently, numerous priests have been discovered molesting children, and hundreds of lawsuits are underway, but it is still not coming out that this abuse is connected to trauma-based mind-control. In the past, if the parents who were part of the Illuminati elite, but were not religious wanted their boy programmed, they could send him off to a military school run under the cooperation of the Catholic church and units such as the 6th U.S. Army, which became one of the primary infiltrated units. The 6th army uses the magical hexagram as its logo. This would provide the programmed child with a religious front. He could say, I went to catholic school. The programming could be disguised as discipline, etc.


The establishment media have worked propaganda wonders for the abusers of the Monarch Mind-control. Britain is extremely repressive in their information control. If any news medium tries to leak the most simplist of information a secret document called a notice; will be sent at any time of day to them from a D-notice committee, and the media will have to stop whatever reference is deemed a secret. In the U.S. it in effect works as tight, it just is not officially as tight. The abusers know that they also have an Incredulous Factor that can assist them. Who would believe that a sweet child drinks blood and is cannabalistic? The more that they can do that is far fetched, the less credibility the child has if they do talk. Some children do try to talk. One Monarch slave talked at age five, and her entire family came down hard on her and blamed the childs talking for the death of one of the abusers. What kind of proof can a child bring that adults will accept? In the McMartin Preschool case about 800 children were witnesses whose stories colloborated the SRA and programming that was done, but the media, and the judicial system were able to cover up the abuse and make it look on television that the abusers were the victims! It wasnt until after the case was over and the property sold, that the tangible proof (the secret tunnels with paraphenalia) were found, and then the news media has covered that up too.


The abusers will often wear masks and costumes. Let's say a programmer wears a Mickey Mouse outfit, and the child would remember and tell, Mickey Mouse hurt me. Now who is going to believe the child? The child has told the truth, but will be reprimanded for telling the truth. It doesnt take long for a severely abused child, who has been programmed to keep silent, to learn that no one wants to hear the truth anyway.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/monarch-logo.jpg
The Monarch School is located in Heron, Montana (just over the Idaho border), on 120 acres of pure heaven.
Nestled amidst the foothills of the Cabinet Mountains, one can experience wandering paths, hiking trails, gorgeous ponds (allowing for skating in the winter or fishing in the summer/spring), amazing greenery, clean air and wildlife of all kinds nearby.
The campus is maintained by students and staff and feels warm, comfortable and inviting. Students feel connected to the school the way a family feels attached to a home.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/campus1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/lodge.jpg
http://www.monarchschool.com/

i downloaded their applicationform, couldn't believe what kind of shit the parents have to sign..

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/page-logo1.gif
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/ljhhjogo.gif
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/mk/OverTheRainbow.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/preschool_logo.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/RTLogoOval.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/BBmkUltraMOnarc/NewLogo2005.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Souljahtru/Nato/RR_LOGO.gif

[soulja]

I think you are right about the mk box being applicable here.
You see cannibalistic allusions , and I think so too.
The fetuses hang from the tree like apples, with the little girl jumping
trying to reach them.



Cobain is also known to have at one point decorated a room with bloody baby
dolls hanging from strings.

Was witnessing real baby killing part of his earlier childhood mk trauma conditioning?

according to countless testimonies of victims and also ex-programmers like svali yes this would have been part of the trauma conditioning.
and worse, like forcing him (dark altar(s) of him) doing it aswell.


Kurt, We Hardly Knew Ye
Cobain's "Journals" reveal a troubled man.
by NANCY DEWOLF SMITH
Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:01 a.m. EST

If Kurt Cobain had looked less like a rent boy on the Lido and more like, say, Howdy Doody, would he be alive and well today? On the other hand, if Cobain hadn't found an outlet and an audience for his hostility by performing in the band Nirvana, would he have turned the shotgun he used to kill himself in 1994 on the rest of us instead?

Such questions are inescapable after reading even a sampling of Cobain's notebooks, published this month by Riverhead Books as "Journals." Grotesque fantasies of homosexual rape and homicidal rage fairly leap off the pages, suggesting that the anti-establishment icon from a remote Washington State logging community was tortured by a lot more than the hot spotlight of commercial success. Yet we haven't heard a peep from reverential reviewers about such things. Why do you think that is?

True, much of the material is a reminder of why most of us don't keep diaries, because the banality of our random musings is painful to behold. No matter how hard the Riverhead publicity machine chugs away--informing us that the diaries "show a young man of extraordinary drive and focus, who meticulously planned every aspect of his career"--there's no escaping the plain truth about planning, Cobain-style: "Things the band needs to do: 1. Send some ----ing demo tapes. get chad to ----ing fork over some money."

Then there's the puffy Nov. 15 article in Entertainment Weekly, which solemnly quotes Jim Barber, who chose material from some 20 notebooks Cobain filled from the late 1980s to 1994: "From Pablo Picasso to Leonardo da Vinci, people study these things." Read Cobain himself on the subject of art, and you find lofty thoughts like the following: "Our freedom to express our art is seriously being ----ed with. ----, the word ---- has as many connotations as does the word art."

The quality press faced a bigger dilemma as they lassoed the Cobain cash cow. Kurt's status as a cult figure guarantees a certain uncritical readership, and who wants to mess with that? Thus Newsweek, which put Cobain on its Oct. 28 cover, perhaps wisely neglected to draw readers' attention to diary entries like this: "I am a male age 23, and I'm lactating." While other men have sexual fantasies about voluptuous women, "when I close my eyes I see lizards & flipper babies, the ones who were deformed because their mothers took bad birth control pills. I'm seriously afraid to touch myself."

As icky as that is, Newsweek surely found something far more disturbing, in a list it published alongside other anodyne extracts (on subjects like music and the evils of heroin addiction.) "I like punk rock. I like girls with weird eyes. I like passion. I like to feel guilty for being a white American male . . ." What the cover-boy also included in that list, but some censor snipped: "I like to make incisions into the belly of infants then ---- the incisions until the child dies."

Neil Strauss, writing in the New York Times, praises Cobain's "well-drawn sketches and cartoons" (see the sample nearby) and cryptically refers to his revealed anguish at "being teased to the brink of suicide at school." Well, it's all there in the diary, if not in the Times. For our purposes, the story begins when Kurt decides to have his first sexual affair with a classmate widely believed at school, though not by him, to be mentally disabled. "One day after school I went to her house . . . and she offered me some twinkies and I sat on her lap and said let's ----." The experience repulsed him physically, but things quickly got worse when everyone from her father to the police wanted to question Cobain about taking advantage of a "cronic retard."

Cobain describes how he became such a pariah at school after this incident that he lay across some train tracks with chunks of concrete to weigh him down, only to see the oncoming train veer onto another track. "The train scared me enough to try to rehabilitate myself & my guitar playing seemed to be improving, so I became less maniacally depressed."

Eventually, Cobain penned the lyrics to "Floyd the Barber," which appear in his diaries this way: "Floyd breathes hard I hear a zip/pee pee pressed against my lips. . . I sense others in the room/Opey, Aunt Bee I presume/They take turns in cut me up/I died smothered in Andy's butt." Before the song was recorded by Nirvana a person of taste changed the last word of that verse to "snot." And I suppose a person could read "Floyd" as a bitter commentary on our foolish mainstream dreams of happy Mayberry.

Snippets are scattered through the "Journals" like a breadcrumb path to the doorway of a psyche that seems a bit worse-off than most. Take Cobain's outline (mercifully abandoned) for a video set in a prison, to go with his song, Rape Me: "Big bald, sweaty, tattooed love boys cast from the waist up in their cold concrete tanks lounging on their backs . . . all 200 lbs plus and also about 5 to 8 more of whom we call the bitches skinny feminine . . .150 lbs and less."

After several entries on this sad theme, perhaps it is not so surprising to find Cobain exploding all over the place: "I'm going to ----ing kill. I'm going to ----ing destroy your macho sadistic rightwing religiously abusive opinions . . . . Before I die many will die with me and they will deserve it. see you in hell."

And then there's what, for lack of a better phrase, sounds like Kurt in pre-Columbine mode: "It is time now for the 'fortunate ones,' the cheerleaders and the football jocks to strip down naked in front of the entire school at an assembly and plead with every ounce of their souls for mercy and forgiveness . . . they are representatives of gluttony and selfish values and to say that they are sorry for condoning these things will not be enough, they must mean it, they must have guns pointed to their heads."

There are sadistic fantasies about traditional figures, such as "the Virgin Mary Hooked thru her back on a meat hook." And then, of course, there is the brutalization imagined by Cobain against Kurt himself: "I can't speak, I can only feel. Maybe someday I'll turn myself into Hellen Keller by puncturing my ears with a knife."

On a good day, Cobain found things to root for, at one point sketching a T-shirt that would advertise "Socialized medicine," "Teachers wages increased by 40%" and (inscrutably) "Mandatory breeding laws." Over some 280 pages, however, he has nice things to say about only a couple of people, and expresses sustained admiration for only one--Jimmy Carter, remembering only that he "liked peanuts" but somehow seemed to be a "good, honest, smart man."

Who knows. If Elvis is still out there somehow, perhaps the spirit of Kurt Cobain has found a happy haunt in Oslo. On the other hand, he might be railing against a mainstream media that promotes him as a cultural icon even as it launders his act before going to press.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110002651

[hunkahunka]

this information interesting on a firm called Hipgnosis which
has done at least 296 major-label album covers for
various rock bands and solo artists over the years.
296 of their album covers are here:
http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_view?list_id=6285&show=150&start=0
samples:

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/14197.jpg

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/25719.jpg

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/21416.jpg

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/17853.jpg

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/7666.jpg

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/976.jpg

[soulja]

good link, thx for that.

two examples that immediately caught my attention

Nr. 62 - Rainbow ''difficult to cure''

and

Nr.135 - Catherine Wheel ''like cats and dogs'' (whole twins, kitten reference)

[soulja]

just learned it's not possible to edit old posts !?

wanted to add Rihanna to the emerald wearing celebs collection
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/RihannaNHova.jpg
(never mind the butterfly)

but i'll use this opportunity to quote a post from menses he did in the Jay-z/Nas thread. good stuff and fits in here nicely..

Rhianna is a "Dolly" and a Monarch Slave...

"Dolly" - Has the right kind of genetics to produce children that will be good looking, possess a high iq, programmable, likely to succeed in the arts...etc..

Monarch Slave - Rhianna has received Sexual BETA based Programming...the access code is referred to as the"Umbrella" system ...by repeating certain phrases in certain tones...you can gain access to certain personality traits within the slave...or slaves depending on how many people you are trying to trigger...you may recognize this one...


Codes to all the various basic systems

Stairwell 432111132
Quabala 423454334
Tornado 332146444
Umbrella System 314321014

http://educate-yourself.org/mc/illumformula4chap.shtml

[Jay-Z]
Ahuh Ahuh (Yea Rihanna)
Ahuh Ahuh (Good girl gone bad)
Ahuh Ahuh (Take three... Action)
Ahuh Ahuh

You can stand under my umbrella
You can stand under my umbrella
(Ella ella eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella eh eh eh eh eh eh)

http://www.elyrics.net/read/r/rihann...la-lyrics.html



Notice Sean Carter aka Jay Z begins the song...this was by no accident...he is now for all intensive purposes...a Slave Handler and a Programmer...Programmers tend to manage, date, and or marry their slaves...Tommy Mattola...Mafiosi and Sony head honcho married Mariah Carey...when she was still white...Celine Dion married her husband and programmer at 13(no formal announcement)...he just happened to be her manager at the time...

Jay Z was given his choice...and he chose Beyonce...good breeding, genetics, children who can be programmed...etc. See in masonry you are introduced to your wife...and given the opportunity to breed children with desirable traits that will push them even further up the ladder than you....Gene Simmons (Family Jewels)...Simmons is a Mason...comes to the Masonic Temple in Toronto as soon as he gets off the plane whenver he visits....Shannon Tweed was a "Dolly"......good genes, good looking, genetics...etc etc...Masons hate Marriage...they want to destroy it....Simmons been wit the same woman for 20 years and never married her....because he doesn't need to....its just genetics...(notice he's always talking about his looks and being the alpha male....)thats all.....its just a Eugenics Program...thats all it is....Jay Z has his dolly....in 20 years he will have a reality show as well.....He is 39 years old and about to turn 40....life begins at 40...the 40th degree...in masonry...Madonna(Monarch Slave) entered the Qabala at 40 years of age...etc etc..(her new video removes all doubt as to whether or not she knows what time it is...)mind you he won't be allowed to advance...his children will though...

Lets take a look at a recent Juno Winner....


http://www.am770chqr.com/_Shared/CPContent/e040637A.jpg

Recognize her?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GV4M9C8EL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Album Name - "Monarch"

Artist - Feist

The Programmers and Occultist who run our Music Industry and Advertising Firms love to imbed programming cues and triggers in popular music...and commercials...

Feist.......


For Feist, iPod makes it easy as 1234

iPod ad featuring Feist on YouTube
Feist's 1234 video on YouTube

Second single from The Reminder shoots up charts after repeated play in new Nano ad

Sep 28, 2007 04:30 AM
Ben Rayner
Pop Music Critic

After months of grazing the international mainstream, Canadian songbird Leslie Feist looks poised to make a major commercial breakthrough in the States and the U.K. through her recent association with an ubiquitous, tiny silver gadget.
http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/261411


1, 2, 3, 4, Tell Me Who Your Searching For....

Basic Internal Emergency Color Codes for a System
T here are several different “CODE RED’s, etc. not just one in a slave, what follows is not the complete information about the Codes, although it is possible some slaves have a simplified version like this:

“CODE GREEN” -- Dr. Green’s suicide programming, tied to “no-talk” programming.
“CODE BLUE” --Victim’s body freezes in motion and can’t move until another code is given.
“CODE RED” -- Victim gets angry and violent
“CODE RED” -Another Code Red has the standard Monarch meaning, “serious self-destruct” program

http://educate-yourself.org/mc/illumformula4chap.shtml

Tell me what color is Feist Wearing in this video? She suspended in air...almost as if she is "Frozen In Motion".....wouldn't you say?

http://a955.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/53/l_e1bde4496a50221550f3515c4e6edaa2.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8Z-DIAthbM

1, 2, 3, 4, Tell Me Who Your Searching For...............................

[brown velvet]

Suicide alters, who are trained to have a big smile and be clowns, mask their intention



Rock n Roll Suicide

Time takes a cigarette, puts it in your mouth
You pull on your finger, then another finger, then your cigarette
The wall-to-wall is calling, it lingers, then you forget
Ohhh how how how, youre a rock n roll suicide

Youre too old to lose it, too young to choose it
And the clocks waits so patiently on your song
You walk past a cafe but you dont eat when youve lived too long
Oh, no, no, no, youre a rock n roll suicide

Chev brakes are snarling as you stumble across the road
But the day breaks instead so you hurry home
Dont let the sun blast your shadow
Dont let the milk float ride your mind
Youre so natural - religiously unkind

Oh no love! youre not alone
Youre watching yourself but youre too unfair
You got your head all tangled up but if I could only
Make you care
Oh no love! youre not alone
No matter what or who youve been
No matter when or where youve seen
All the knives seem to lacerate your brain
Ive had my share, Ill help you with the pain
Youre not alone

Just turn on with me and youre not alone
Lets turn on with me and youre not alone (wonderful)
Lets turn on and be not alone (wonderful)
Gimme your hands cause youre wonderful (wonderful)
Gimme your hands cause youre wonderful (wonderful)
Oh gimme your hands.



I used to really love the old Bowie stuff....
with the extra added 'twist' they have managed to ruin the vast majority of them :(

David Bowie - The Hearts Filthy Lesson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtpZrj2FmU

I found this video unbelievable!!!



brown.

[soulja]

interesting find brown, here's another one

http://static.metal-archives.com/images/6/5/65.JPG
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/acidbath/whenthekitestringpops.html#6


Scream Of The Butterfly

A creature made of sunshine
Her eyes were like the sky
Rabbit howls like something old
As we twitch to a lullaby
The scapel shines in god's sunshine
The Streetlights whisper pain
Down here near the poison stream
Our god has gone insane

She smiles like a child with flowers in her hair
With blood on her hands
Into the sun she stares
She feels it die
I heard her cry

She smiles like a child with flowers in her hair
With blood on her hands
Into the sun she stares
She feels it die
I heard her cry...
Like the scream of the butterfly

Sunshine in the house of flames
She loves it where she gets it
But it's never felt the same
Surgery, in the house of dissection
When your candle burns out..I'll resurrect you
She runs
Through fields of daisies
Yeah, it's just a shame that they eat their own babies
Who cares
Cos the air is free
When you get there will you kiss the dead for me?

There's blood on the moon and the summer is cold
There's love in the room
But baby that's getting old
There's blood on my face sittin' on uhh dead shore
A highway,highway of emptiness and I'm getting bored

There's blood on the moon as we plan our escape
The goddess in bloom
Handcuffed and raped
There's blood in the bathtub baby
Murder the king
There's blood on the moon
There's blood on just about everything

Sunshine in the house of flames
She loves it where she gets it
But it's never felt the same
Surgery, in the house of dissection
When your candle burns out..I'll resurrect you
She runs
Through fields of daisies
Yeah, it's just a shame that they eat their own babies
Who cares
Cos the air is free
When you get there will you kiss the dead for me?

Something cold is forced inside her
A tears spill down her cheek
Stillborn songs of a dead dreamer
Hymn's of a needle freak

With sunlight in her hair she smiles like she don't care
Her dreams of liquid blue
I cut my self again and again to remind myslef of you

She smiles like a child with flowers in her hair
With blood on her hands
Into the sun she stares
She feels it die
I heard her cry...
She smiles like a child with flowers in her hair
With blood on her hands
Into the sun she stares
She feels it die
I heard her cry...
Like the scream of the butterfly
I like the scream of the butterfly

I met an angel with a sawed-off shotgun
Wanted by the FBI
We dropped some acid
Killed our parents
Then we hit the road

I like the scream of the butterfly

another Acid bath album cover
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/27906.jpg

[soulja]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4125/folderie4.jpg


Artists - Blonde Redhead
Song - Misery Is A Butterfly

Dearest Jane I should’ve known better
But I couldn’t say hello, I didn’t know why
But now I think, I think you were sad
Yes you were, you were, you were

What I say, I say only to you
Cause I love and I love only you
Dearest Jane, I want to give you a dream
That no one has given you

Remember when we found misery
We watched her, watched her spread her wings
And slowly fly around our room
And she asked for your gentle mind

Misery is a butterfly
Her heavy wings will warp your mind
With her small ugly face
And her long antenna
And her black and pink heavy wings

Remember when we found misery
We watched her, watched her spread her wings
And slowly fly around our room
And she asked for your gentle mind


http://www.blackmetal.com/scans0306/harterattack_lp.jpg


Band - Nuclear Assault
Track - Fractured Minds

A state of mind, mine is most unkind
Another here is sharing my space
Locked within this same human skin
Another voice is sharing my throat
We are here stuck inside this head
Taking turns wondering who is real
This is not a future or a life

Another day don't tell me it's a page
When everyday the book is not the same
My life a series of snapshots
But never once is the order the same
One voice here inside my head
How long will it be the same
Another lie made unto myself
Play the game according to whose rules?

Tell me you'll relieve me of my sins
And leave me whole but not the same
Taking one chosen from the rest
Tell me how does he pass your test
Fractured minds, relieve me of their pain
What am I, don't leave us for the dead
A state of mind I have more of these
Don't say that I'm just a disease


http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/51GzckLBQfL_AA240_.jpg


Queen Adreena - The Butcher And The Butterfly

there is a finger missing on my right hand
a butchers hand in a butterfly wing span
the sky hangs on a thread as I paint the white picket fence red
said am I alive or am I dead

I cought a raingbow tear in her sunset smile
I told the broken bird of my unborn child
these blood stained walls in her head
I found my girl bleeding in his bed

the angels cried in butterfly red
(the butcher and the butterfly)
her wings are torn my babies dead
(the butcher and the butterfly)

I put my girl in the butchers hand
she is my curse cried fireman Sam
heaven down below inscribed her name
my baby girl's lost in amongst these flames

the angels cried in butterfly red
(the butcher and the butterfly)
her wings are torn my babies dead
(the butcher and the butterfly)

oh heaven help me what have I done
I kissed the daughter of my unborn son
heaven down below inscribed her name
let heaven oh heaven rain down again


the angels cried in butterfly red
(the butcher and the butterfly)
her wings are torn my babies dead
(the butcher and the butterfly)
the angels cried in butterfly red
(the butcher and the butterfly)
her wings are torn my babies dead
(the butcher and the butterfly)

[hunkahunka]

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/84/55/23295584.jpg

http://www.caufields.com/productimages/Halloween/Mask/Images/37_33533.jpg

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/1002/24129.JPG

http://www.styleofeye.com/images/monarch-butterfly-mask1.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/117/285734044_61d8e1976f.jpg?v=0

http://stb.msn.com/i/FD/4D70FAACEE295365A289FB1A628FE.jpg

http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/Iris_goddess_of_the_Rainbow.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/samsimillia/goddess_iris.jpg

Iris is the Messenger Goddess.daughter of the Titan Thaumas and Electra. Although she was a sister of the winged monsters, the Harpies, Iris was represented as a beautiful maiden, with wings and robes of bright colors and a halo of light on her head, trailing across the sky with the rainbow she traveled on in her wake. She was also called the Goddess of the Rainbow.

http://www.awenglow.com/IrisGoddess_300dpijpg3a.jpg

also fascinating link provides account of rainbow programming
ritual:

http://www.moontress.com/rgoddess.htm

[brown velvet]

brown velvet: open cans of cat food - my favourite thing! :D

on a more serious note, you shouldn't feed your cats canned food imo..

and sometimes it is just better to not reply..... as my mother sometimes said. Thing is.... she wasn't alway correct! So, not able to cook or just a feline in human form?

brown.

[rixxmixxhell]

Hey guys, nice thread and all.

Are you linking them photos from websites using the bandwidth or are you saving the pics to your P.c's and posting them??

It's just every time I and others look at the thread i land up with 100's of cookies to sites i'd prefer not be on my p.c. I know cookies aren't much to worry about but they link to each other and can pass adware and spy ware through them. Was just wandering if the sites you get the pics from are *safe*?

Lucky i have a fast connection sometimes this thread takes yonks to load obviously.

Rick

[soulja]

and sometimes it is just better to not reply..... as my mother sometimes said. Thing is.... she wasn't alway correct! So, not able to cook or just a feline in human form?

brown.

was just joking hence the :D

and the canned food thingy, i've made that mistake so i'm just sharing my ''experience''

but yea i'm not the best of cooks tbh

[soulja]

rixxmixxhell,

some of my pics come from my photobucket account means they aren't hotlinked but often i'll just hotlink pics cos i'm a bit lazy and it's just quicker that way.
as for the cookies, just delete them every now and then ?

[brown velvet]

Hey guys, nice thread and all.

Are you linking them photos from websites using the bandwidth or are you saving the pics to your P.c's and posting them??

It's just every time I and others look at the thread i land up with 100's of cookies to sites i'd prefer not be on my p.c. I know cookies aren't much to worry about but they link to each other and can pass adware and spy ware through them. Was just wandering if the sites you get the pics from are *safe*?

Lucky i have a fast connection sometimes this thread takes yonks to load obviously.

Rick


hiya :)

if I could work out how to put up images and vids.... would do, and I don't know if that would mean all the probs you mention...... have tried to link one from flckr, it wouldn't do it, so I am at a loss atm :(


brown.

[brown velvet]

here's another one

Acid bath



Another facet of their presentation which may not have endeared them to popular sentiment was the use of art by John Wayne Gacy, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, Richard Ramirez, and Kenneth Bianchi for the covers of their releases

coz I am so old I have never heard of Acid Bath, and I am sure my ears are pleased about that :) lolol


sorry if this is old news / new writer syndrome
brown.

[soulja]

hiya :)

if I could work out how to put up images and vids.... would do, and I don't know if that would mean all the probs you mention...... have tried to link one from flckr, it wouldn't do it, so I am at a loss atm :(


brown.

that's because you can't hotlink from flickr.

for all other pics just put them between


if you hover with your mouse over the icons it will explain them, then you click on the insert image icon/yellow one and past the image location into it.

if that doesn't work for whatever reason you can always manually type

[soulja]

Another facet of their presentation which may not have endeared them to popular sentiment was the use of art by John Wayne Gacy, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, Richard Ramirez, and Kenneth Bianchi for the covers of their releases

coz I am so old I have never heard of Acid Bath, and I am sure my ears are pleased about that :) lolol


sorry if this is old news / new writer syndrome
brown.

John Wayne Gacy
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/artists/475.jpg
As one of the most notorious serial killers in history, largely for his hobby of clowning, John Wayne Gacy murdered numerous people. All the while, he maintained a normal persona and was active in the community. After he was put in prison, he took up painting as a hobby and means of making money. Today his art is collected by people interested or haunted by his life. Some people are not happy that his art is available and are even willing to buy it to destroy it.
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/artist.php?artist=475

some of his works
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/13138.jpg
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/12859.jpg
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/13140.jpg
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/12861.jpg
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/2/12863.jpg
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/artist.php?artist=475



John Wayne Gacy (march 17, 1942 – May 10, 1994) also Known As The Killer Clown, Was An American Serial Killer.

He Was Convicted And Later Executed For The Rape And Murder Of 33 Boys And Young Men Between 1972 And His Arrest In 1978, 27 Of Whom He Buried In A Crawl Space Under The Floor Of His House, While Others Were Found In Nearby Rivers. He Became Notorious As The "killer Clown" Because Of The Many Block Parties He Threw For His Friends And Neighbors, Entertaining Children In A Clown Suit And Makeup, Under The Name Of "pogo The Clown." He Was Also In The Guinness Book Of World Records For The Longest Sentence Imposed On A Mass Murderer; He Was Given 21 Consecutive Life Sentences And 12 Death Sentences.
21 + 12 = 33

early Life

Born John Wayne Gacy, Jr. In Chicago, Illinois, He Was Raised A Catholic In A Suburb Of Chicago. He Had A troubled Relationship With His Father, John Samuel Gacy, Sr. (june 20, 1900 - December 25, 1969), a Physically Abusive Alcoholic Who Often Called His Son A "sissy."[1] He Was Close To His Mother, Marion Elaine Robinson (may 4, 1908 – December 1, 1989).[2]

When Gacy Was 11, He Was Struck On The Forehead By A Swing Set. The Resulting Head Trauma Formed A Blood Clot In His Brain Which Went Unnoticed Until He Was 16, when He Began To Suffer blackouts. He Was Then Prescribed Medication To Dissolve The Clot. [3]

After Attending Four High Schools His Senior Year, Gacy Dropped Out. He Worked Briefly In Las Vegas Before Returning To Illinois. He Attended A Business College And Started A Moderately Successful Career As A Shoe Salesman, In Springfield, Illinois, Where He Became A Prominent Member Of The Jaycees.[4] Gacy Married In 1964. The Same Year, He Had His First Known Homosexual Encounter, While His Wife Was In Labour With Their Son, Michael. Years Later, Gacy Claimed That He Was Bisexual.

He Moved To Waterloo, Iowa, Where He Managed A Kfc Restaurant Belonging To His Wife's Family.

Gacy's Marriage Fell Apart After He Was Convicted Of Child Molestation In December 1968, And Was Sent To Prison. He Was Paroled In 1970, After Serving 18 Months Of A 10-year Sentence. During His Incarceration, Gacy's Father Died From Liver Cirrhosis, On Christmas Day 1969. After Gacy Was Released, He Moved Back To Illinois. He Successfully Hid This Criminal Record, Until Police Began Investigating Him For His Later Murders.

In 1971, He Bought A House At 8213 (23) West Summerdale Avenue, In An Unincorporated Area Of Norwood Park Township, Cook County, Which Is Surrounded By The Northwest Side Chicago Neighborhood Of Norwood Park. Gacy Became Active In The Local Democratic Party, First Volunteering To Clean The Party Offices. He Eventually Earned The Title Of Precinct Captain.[5] In This Capacity, He Met And Was Photographed With Future First Lady Rosalynn Carter.[6] During The Search Of Gacy's House After His Arrest, This Photo Caused A Major Embarrassment To The U.s. Secret Service, As The Photo Depicted Gacy Wearing An "s" Lapel Pin, Which Meant The Secret Service Had Given Him A High-level Security Clearance.


gacy As An Artist

During His 14 Years On Death Row, Gacy Took Up Oil Painting, His Favorite Subject Being Portraits Of Clowns. he Said He Used His Clown Act As An Alter Ego, Once Sardonically Saying That "a Clown Can Get Away With Murder." His Paintings Included Pictures Of Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs And His Fellow Serial Killers Jeffrey Dahmer And Ed Gein. They Are Among The Most Famous Examples Of Serial Killer Art.

Many Of Gacy's Paintings Were Sold At Auction After His Execution. Steve Koschal, A Florida Dealer Who Corresponded With Gacy While He Was On Death Row, Bought About 200. Nineteen Were Put Up For Sale, Prices Ranging From $195, For An Acrylic Painting Of A Bird, To $9500 For A Depiction Of Dwarfs Playing Baseball Against The Chicago Cubs.[14] "you'd Be Surprised Who Buys These Paintings", Koschal Told The Associated Press. "you Might Think Some Tough Motorcycle Gang Off The Street, but It's Doctors, Lawyers, Professional People, Hollywood And Media Types."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy

[rixxmixxhell]

hiya :)

if I could work out how to put up images and vids.... would do, and I don't know if that would mean all the probs you mention...... have tried to link one from flckr, it wouldn't do it, so I am at a loss atm :(


brown.

Ahrr i know not the easiest things is it, they could make the forums software programme to make it easier.

I clean out my cookies regularly etc - i just wanted to know where they come from thats all, (I will say be careful with saving stuff to your P.C's like pictures etc especially if it's from questionable sites that are filled with adware spyware malware etc - i work with stuff like that)

Im satisfied with the above post from 'soulja' i think - as for posting your own pics from your P.C i think you have to upload to one of the host sites? But again i know how to do it it's just a mission! It would be easy to make new codes on forum software to allow upload of pics into threads like the way you do it for personal albums in the user control panel etc. Like above just mentioned place in between (img) - (img)...

Evening.

Rick

[hunkahunka]

Gacy Became Active In The Local Democratic Party, First Volunteering To Clean The Party Offices. He Eventually Earned The Title Of Precinct Captain.[5] In This Capacity, He Met And Was Photographed With Future First Lady Rosalynn Carter.[6] During The Search Of Gacy's House After His Arrest, This Photo Caused A Major Embarrassment To The U.s. Secret Service, As The Photo Depicted Gacy Wearing An "s" Lapel Pin, Which Meant The Secret Service Had Given Him A High-level Security Clearance.
"you'd Be Surprised Who Buys These Paintings", Koschal Told The Associated Press. "you Might Think Some Tough Motorcycle Gang Off The Street, but It's Doctors, Lawyers, Professional People, Hollywood And Media Types."[/url]

omg, this thread gets scarier by the minute.
More links to the Democratic Party. Like the Democratic PArty satanists busted in North Carolina last week.
So its not just those
Bohemian Grove GOPs after all. And look who is buying the Gacy art, the Democratic media types. Wait a minute, isn't Bohemian Grove a media hangout, for the national press club?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/010105grove16.jpg
The common denominator here seems to be the media/Hollywood, whether its registers as conservative or liberal on the spectrum.

[rixxmixxhell]

Can you sum up the content and subject of this thread please. May help others to contribute and to follow it more clearly. Obviously starting out as a Kurt cobain thread and since moved away from 'him' and exploring other subjects it seems to be a thread collection, i mean, theres alot of stuff but to make it more concise you could just write a few words on where you are now and what you have found etc?

Rick

[brown velvet]

Dolly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doll

A doll is a child's toy that represents a baby or other human being, but includes likenesses of animals and imaginary creatures. Dolls have been around since the dawn of human civilization, and have been fashioned from a vast array of materials, ranging from stone, clay, wood, bone, cloth and paper, to porcelain, china, rubber and plastic.

While dolls have traditionally been toys for children, they are also collected by adults, for their nostalgic value, beauty, historical importance or financial value. In ancient times, dolls were used as representations of a deity, and played a central role in religious ceremonies and rituals. Lifelike or anatomically correct dolls are used by health professionals, medical schools and social workers to train doctors and nurses in various health procedures or investigate cases of sexual abuse of children. Artists sometimes use jointed wooden mannequins in drawing the human figure. Action figures representing superheroes and their predecessors, action dolls, are particularly popular among boys. Baby dolls, paper dolls, talking dolls, fashion dolls - the list is almost endless.

Hopi Kachina dolls
The Hopi use Kachina dolls to embody the characteristics of the Kachinas, the powerful spirits of earth, sky and water. These dolls are important educational tools for children, making unseen ideas and concepts visible. The dolls themselves are not seen as something to be worshipped, and technically they do not even depict sacred beings. Rather, they depict the Kachina dancers, men who don Kachina masks during various Hopi ceremonies in imitation of the spirits.

The original Kachina dolls were not much more than painted blocks of wood. However, the craft has turned into a sculptural art form, and modern carvings are often quite detailed and life-like. Kachinas will be carved from a cottonwood root, a soft and easily sculpted wood. In the past, they have used feathers, but federal legislation has criminalized the use of feathers from endangered birds on articles for sale. Rather than use chicken feathers or some other substitute, most Hopi carvers wil now carve feathers out of wood which will be glued to the statues.

Zuni Indians also carve some Kachinas, especially Shalakos. Navajos also carve dolls which superficially resemble many Hopi Kachinas. However, these are not part of the Navajo religious tradition and are carved only for sale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_Kachina_dolls

Kachinas (also spelled Katsina, the plural "katsinam") exist in Hopi and in Pueblo cosmology and religious practices.

In Hopi, the word Kachina (Katsina or Qatsina) means literally "life bringer", and can be anything that exists in the natural world or cosmos. A Kachina can be anything from an element, to a quality, to a natural phenomenon, to a concept.

There are more than 400 different Kachinas in Hopi and Pueblo culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachina


Matryoshka doll
A matryoshka doll or a Russian nested doll, also called a stacking doll or Babooshka doll, is a set of dolls of decreasing sizes placed one inside the other. "Matryoshka" is a derivative of the Russian female first name "Matryona", which is traditionally associated with a fat, robust Russian woman.

A set of matryoshkas consists of a wooden figure which can be pulled apart to reveal another figure of the same sort inside. It has, in turn, another figure inside, and so on. The number of nested figures is usually five or more. The shape is mostly cylindrical, rounded at the top for the head and tapered towards the bottom, but little else; the dolls have no hands (except those that are painted). Traditionally the outer layer is a woman, dressed in a sarafan, holding a rooster. Inside, it contains other figures that may be of both genders, usually ending in a baby that does not open. The artistry is in the painting of each doll, which can be extremely elaborate.

Matryoshkas are often designed to follow a particular theme, for instance peasant girls in traditional dress, but the theme can be anything, from fairy tale characters to Soviet leaders.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka_doll



Vodou has come to be associated in the popular mind with the lore about Satanism, zombies and "voodoo dolls." While there is evidence of zombie creation, it is a minor phenomenon within rural Haitian culture and not a part of the Vodou religion as such. Such things fall under the auspices of the bokor or sorcerer rather than the priest of the Loa.

The practice of sticking pins in dolls has history in European folk magic, but its exact origins are unclear. How it became known as a method of cursing an individual by some followers of what has come to be called New Orleans Voodoo is a mystery. Some speculate that it was used as a means of self defense to intimidate superstitious slave owners[citation needed]. This practice is not unique to New Orleans voodoo, however, and has as much basis in European-based magical devices such as the poppet and the nkisi or bocio of West and Central Africa.

These are in fact power objects, what in Haiti would be referred to as pwen, rather than magical surrogates for an intended target of sorcery whether for boon or for bane. Such voodoo dolls are not a feature of Haitian religion, although dolls intended for tourists may be found in the Iron Market in Port au Prince. The practice became closely associated with the Vodou religions in the public mind through the vehicle of horror movies and popular novels.

There is a practice in Haiti of nailing crude poppets with a discarded shoe on trees near the cemetery to act as messengers to the otherworld, which is very different in function from how poppets are portrayed as being used by voodoo worshippers in popular media and imagination, ie. for purposes of sympathetic magic towards another person. Another use of dolls in authentic Vodou practice is the incorporation of plastic doll babies in altars and objects used to represent or honor the spirits, or in pwen, which recalls the aforementioned use of bocio and nkisi figures in Africa.

Although Voodoo is often associated with Satanism, Satan is primarily an Abrahamic figure and has not been incorporated in Voodoo tradition. When Mississippi Delta folksongs mix references to Voodoo and to Satan, what is being expressed is social pain such as from racism. Those who practice voodoo are not attempting to worship or invoke the blessings of a devil.

Further adding to the dark reputation of Voodoo was the 1973 film adaptation of the thriller Live and Let Die, part of Ian Fleming's widely successful James Bond series, which had been continually in print in both the English original and translations to numerous languages. Fleming's depiction of the schemings of a fiendish Soviet agent using Voodoo to intimidate and control a vast network of submissive black followers got an incomparably greater audience than any careful scholarly work on the subject of Voodoo. (See Mr. Big, Baron Samedi.)
Vodou has come to be associated in the popular mind with the lore about Satanism, zombies and "voodoo dolls." While there is evidence of zombie creation, it is a minor phenomenon within rural Haitian culture and not a part of the Vodou religion as such. Such things fall under the auspices of the bokor or sorcerer rather than the priest of the Loa.

The practice of sticking pins in dolls has history in European folk magic, but its exact origins are unclear. How it became known as a method of cursing an individual by some followers of what has come to be called New Orleans Voodoo is a mystery. Some speculate that it was used as a means of self defense to intimidate superstitious slave owners[citation needed]. This practice is not unique to New Orleans voodoo, however, and has as much basis in European-based magical devices such as the poppet and the nkisi or bocio of West and Central Africa.

These are in fact power objects, what in Haiti would be referred to as pwen, rather than magical surrogates for an intended target of sorcery whether for boon or for bane. Such voodoo dolls are not a feature of Haitian religion, although dolls intended for tourists may be found in the Iron Market in Port au Prince. The practice became closely associated with the Vodou religions in the public mind through the vehicle of horror movies and popular novels.

There is a practice in Haiti of nailing crude poppets with a discarded shoe on trees near the cemetery to act as messengers to the otherworld, which is very different in function from how poppets are portrayed as being used by voodoo worshippers in popular media and imagination, ie. for purposes of sympathetic magic towards another person. Another use of dolls in authentic Vodou practice is the incorporation of plastic doll babies in altars and objects used to represent or honor the spirits, or in pwen, which recalls the aforementioned use of bocio and nkisi figures in Africa.

Although Voodoo is often associated with Satanism, Satan is primarily an Abrahamic figure and has not been incorporated in Voodoo tradition. When Mississippi Delta folksongs mix references to Voodoo and to Satan, what is being expressed is social pain such as from racism. Those who practice voodoo are not attempting to worship or invoke the blessings of a devil.

Further adding to the dark reputation of Voodoo was the 1973 film adaptation of the thriller Live and Let Die, part of Ian Fleming's widely successful James Bond series, which had been continually in print in both the English original and translations to numerous languages. Fleming's depiction of the schemings of a fiendish Soviet agent using Voodoo to intimidate and control a vast network of submissive black followers got an incomparably greater audience than any careful scholarly work on the subject of Voodoo. (See Mr. Big, Baron Samedi.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_doll#Myths_and_misconceptions

poppet is a reoccuring theme I have noticed as well



Worry doll
Worry dolls, or trouble dolls, are very small dolls originally made in Guatemala. A person (usually a child) who cannot sleep due to worrying can express their worries to a doll and place it under their pillow before going to sleep.

According to folklore, the doll is thought to worry in the person's place, thereby permitting the person to sleep peacefully. The person will wake up without their worries, which have been taken away by the dolls during the night.

The dolls are about 1/2 to 2 inches (13 mm to 50 mm) tall and handmade using wood or wire as a frame, cotton fabric and thread for clothing and cardboard for its body and face, although they can be made from clay. Worry dolls are often sold as a fair trade item. Worry dolls are now part of Guatemalan culture and are very popular.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worry_doll


and I have no idea if the picture will appear or not :(
those worry dolls.... are a worry, in little powerless hands, those dolls could be turned in to anything and still take away worries....


brown.

[brown velvet]

Can you sum up the content and subject of this thread please. May help others to contribute and to follow it more clearly. Obviously starting out as a Kurt cobain thread and since moved away from 'him' and exploring other subjects it seems to be a thread collection, i mean, theres alot of stuff but to make it more concise you could just write a few words on where you are now and what you have found etc?

Rick

hi Rick

wow, you are asking us to use a few words....? lololol, like, self-editing you mean? *kidding*
I can only say I opened a new thread about rainbows and it was shifted over to the cobain thread, so I assumed it was all meant to stay here, the opinions of others regarding rainbows seems to have kicked off a lot of info about MC / MKULTRA and we seem to have taken the ball and changed direction from Cobain, hope that clears it up a little bit for ya?

:pEvening, hope it was a pleasant one

brown.

[brown velvet]

it keeps asking for my url and I don't understand :( the images are on my computer.... I feel so amazingly incompetent

[rixxmixxhell]

Oh yes. It's code is requireing a ulr - a point of reference. I know people do it though!! I'm sure a moderator will help you if you P.M one whos online?

Rick

[soulja]

it keeps asking for my url and I don't understand :( the images are on my computer.... I feel so amazingly incompetent



if you want to upload pics from your harddrive then you need to upload them first onto something like http://photobucket.com/ in order to copy past them on here.
at least that's how i do it. but like rixxmixx said maybe a mod can tell you another way.

the will only work if you copy past the image address from some other site, for example one of those
http://images.google.de/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&q=image&btnG=Search+Images

[soulja]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/8008AshesToAshes1.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/Bono_The_Clown.jpg

[soulja]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/AvrilLavigne.jpg
avril lavigne making the sign of silence

here she draws a heart on a mirror
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/avril_lavigne.jpg

next one is weird
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/Avril-Lavigne-Ashlee-Simpson--31735.jpg
two different eye and hair colours symbolizing different personalities imo
also the emerald ring..

btw wasn't Mengele researching/doing the change of eye colour via torture ?

[brown velvet]

he wrote the song after he found a heart shaped chocolate box filled with love notes from CL's ex-boyfriends, plus after she met him for the second time, she posted him a heart shaped box with sea shells & tiny porcelain dolls in it. the whole song's about their bad marriage.

Anyone able to comment on WTF this is about / for? :eek:

Tis creepy

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/nirvanaheartshapedbox.jpg

and hopefully a *yay* for there being an image, thanks for all your help :)

brown.

[soulja]

YAY!!

welcome brown, to the ''able to post pictures'' club :)

just noticed in the Bowie/clown pic he's holding a silver shoe, yet another Oz item tied into programming. just a coincidence of course..:rolleyes:


pg. 42 Book 3 Ozma of Oz, “I had a pair of silver shoes, that carried me through the air. ..said Dorothy.” In the programming silver shoes are used as cues to go into altered states (i.e. through the air.)


Monarch slaves are taught to “follow the yellow brick road.” No matter what fearful things lie ahead, the Monarch slave must follow the Yellow Brick Road which is set out before them by their master. For some slaves used as track stars, their Yellow Brick Road was the track they had to run. The Yellow Brick Road is the runway in which alters were trained to fly off from to exit their internal world and take the body. The Yellow Brick Road also pertains to the assignment that an alter is given. To follow the Yellow Brick Road is to go down the road that has been assigned by command. The Yellow Brick Road programming is placed into the child’s mind via the Yellow Brick Road of the Wizard of Oz story. Remember the key words, “Follow the Yellow Brick Road.” To get someone onto the Yellow Brick Road you must know the access code to get them through the poppy field. The color codes are important to get an alter through the field of poppies. “Fiddler” is important word to get to the yellow brick road (it signifies the programmer in the context of “the programmer is here, go over the rainbow”) and then the alters eat what is variously called MUSIC or a SCRIPT or A LETTER which are words meaning “instructions.” In the 1900 edition of the book on page 31-32 says (programming cues are in caps), “She closed the door, locked it, and put the KEY carefully in the pocket of her dress. And so, with Toto trotting along soberly behind her, SHE STARTED ON HER JOURNEY. THERE WERE SEVERAL ROADS NEAR BY, BUT IT DID NOT TAKE HER LONG TO FIND THE ONE PAVED WITH YELLOW BRICK. Within a short time she was walking briskly toward the EMERALD CITY, HER SILVER SHOES tinkling merrily on the hard, YELLOW ROADBED. The sun shone BRIGHT AND THE BIRDS SANG SWEET and Dorothy did not feel nearly as bad as you might think a little girl would who had been SUDDENLY WHISKED AWAY FROM HER OWN COUNTRY AND SET DOWN IN THE MIDST OF A STRANGE LAND....The houses of the Munchkins were odd-looking dwellings,...ALL WERE PAINTED BLUE, for in this country of the EAST BLUE WAS THE FAVORITE COLOR.. .FIVE LITTLE FIDDLERS PLAYED AS LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE AND THE PEOPLE WERE LAUGHING AND SINGING, while a big table nearby was loaded with DELICIOUS FRUITS [the programs] and NUTS, PIES, and cakes, and many OTHER GOOD THINGS TO EAT [scripts to ingest].

[hunkahunka]

At risk of verging a bit off topic, let me state that I have long felt that there is an ages-old link between slavery and cannibalism, and seeing that we are discussing a form of slavery (mind control slavery)........

What could be more natural than eating slaves?
Slaves can go from this:
http://www.bgs.ac.uk/nigl/webimages/ox-plough.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/living/images/cowplough.jpg

to this:
http://prayingtodarwin.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/meat47hands011.jpg

relatively easily.


http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&url=http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/wm/60.2/thornton.html

Cannibals, Witches, and Slave Traders in the Atlantic World
John Thornton


TESTIFYING before an ecclesiastical inquest in 1659 Jose Monzolo, 1 the small marquisate of Nzolo in the extreme east of the Kingdom of Kongo, 2 then enslaved and residing in Cartagena, described some of his reactions to his passage across the Atlantic. He noted the fear that his fellow slaves had in crossing the sea, for "when they left their own country, they believed that the Spanish, whom they called the whites, 3 brought them to kill them and to make the flags for the ships from their remains, for when they were red it was from the blood of the Moors, and desperately fearing this many threw themselves in the sea on the voyage." 4 1
These bloody fears were nearly ubiquitous among Africans forced to cross the Atlantic during the years of the slave trade. 5 Olaudah Equiano's account of his own terror at the thought that he would be eaten is perhaps the best known of these stories from among Igbos in what is now southern Nigeria, though there are others. 6 Isabela Folupo, a slave from the "Rivers of Guinea" (modern Guinea-Bissau) testifying in the same inquest as Jose Monzolo, noted that she believed such things, and slaves coming from other places believed it as well, including those she met from Allada (now Benin). 7 It was this chilling fear of being killed, eaten by white cannibals, crushed to make oil, or ground to make gunpowder that drove some of the human cargo on the ship that bore Jose Monzolo to Cartagena to jump into the sea. Perhaps the same fear caused a young Kongolese woman, slave to a Kongolese master in a village of the marquisate of Damma, not far from Jose Monzolo's birthplace, to take her own life in July 1695. 8 According to the Capuchin missionary Luca da Caltanisetta, who was visiting at the time, the woman overheard a conversation between her master and an agent of the Luanda-based Portuguese merchant Francisco Pereira Bravo, who wanted to purchase the woman and her infant son, still nursing at her breast. When she suspected the sale would result in her transfer to America, she "seized the child, and angrily threw him against a stone, and then grabbed some arrows from the hands of a man, and wrathfully used them to pierce her own breast, in this manner she desperately died." 9

Slaves are used , then eaten, imo.

So , why not a mind-control slave? Is this the reason we keep hearing
accounts of cannibalism among MK rituals?

[mrguitarbear]

http://vladbad.typepad.com/vladbad_news_center/images/2007/04/16/fish_marillion_2.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Backstage/8573/jpg/fish3.jpghttp://www.rockshoppe.com/pinups/rock_pinup/r_fish1.jpg

Fish , former lead singer with the group Marillion.

[hunkahunka]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f1/250px-Plate_20_6_20_extract_300px.jpeg


http://metaphysical.articlesarchive.net/ben-franklin-and-rosicrucian-dragons-trepanning.html


Ben Franklin and Rosicrucian Dragons - Trepanning

Ben Franklin will always appear to be a great man and he was that indeed. But he was not just the founder of America or The Enlightenment Experiment. He was one of the founders of the New World Order along with Pierre Dupont de Nemours who he negotiated the armistice to end the British campaign against their former colony. This in fact lead to a un-ion and alliance that still rules the world but in a far more complete manner than the British Empire ever did. I have dealt with many intrigues he was part of and I have personally enjoyed conversing with his descendants. His drawing of the line to include Isle Royale as part of the United States is very important as any reader of my book on the Old Copper culture will know. He was a man who enjoyed his sex and the rituals of the Rosicrucian Dragons a great deal more than most. In the following quote from an article in The Guardian we see ‘trepanning’ again. Of course the authors might think this is only part of some anatomical research but I suspect it is part of sexual and psycho-spiritual rituals just as I have shown occurred in these nether regions of esoteric behaviour for many millennia. The trepanned head of the Merovingian King Dagobert allowed him greater psychic attunement and despite Franklin having been part of the witch hunt against Anton Mesmer and his use or exposure of these secrets I know Franklin understood what trepanning really was suited to achieve. And I know they are reported to still eat human thalami at some meetings of the Skull and Bones Society. Sir Laurence Gardner makes it clear that store bought desiccated animal sources do not serve their needs as well as human brain parts do.

“Benjamin Franklin's house: the naked truth

Restoration reveals secrets of American campaigner

Maev Kennedy, arts and heritage correspondent

Monday August 11, 2003
The Guardian

Some time in 2005 visitors will be able to visit the tall narrow Georgian house in the heart of London where Benjamin Franklin once sat stark naked by the large first floor sash windows, "air bathing" and thinking about bifocals, electricity, economics, American politics, British diplomacy, or how to get the fire in his back room to draw better.

It is a fair bet that however passionately interested the visitors are in the political history of American independence, and the intellectual history of the Age of Enlightenment, what will transfix them is the windowless basement room, once part of the garden.

As restoration work by the Friends of Benjamin Franklin House began on 36 Craven Street, a Grade I listed house rescued from the brink of tottering collapse, a small pit was found in the basement room. A human thigh bone was found.

The coroner and the police were notified. Excavation continued. More human bone surfaced. And more. And more, until more than 1,200 pieces of bone were recovered.

Since the bones were too ancient to trouble Scotland Yard, they are now in the care of the Institute of Archaeology, where experts have already determined that they range from an old man to a human baby. Several skulls have been trepanned, and arm and leg bones chopped through.

The most plausible explanation is not mass murder, but an anatomy school run by Benjamin Franklin's young friend and protégé, William Hewson. He had been a pupil of the most brilliant anatomist of the day, William Hunter, but the two fell out and Hewson started his own anatomy school - at the home of his mother-in-law Margaret Stephenson, just off the Strand, where Benjamin Franklin was also a lodger for 16 years.

He had a rich source of subjects at hand: the resurrection men could deliver bodies stolen from graveyards to the Thames wharf at the bottom of the street, while there was a weekly public execution at the gallows on the other side of the garden wall.

Benjamin Franklin, who was interested in absolutely everything - he was lucky to escape killing himself or his guests at the demonstrations of electricity he was wont to give during dinner parties - must have attended the public dissections. {For Dragons like the later Skull and Bonesmen who like Pierre Dupont de Nemours and Rufus King would be into the same ritual I trace and Gardner admits to.}

Hewson died young of blood poisoning after he cut himself during a dissection.

Franklin eventually returned to the United States, but was estranged from his abandoned family, and separated from the illegitimate son who shared his London years when Franklin declared for American independence and the son was exiled for his loyalty to England.

The house was less than 30 years old when Franklin came to London and rented the best first floor rooms, where he was visited by all the leading figures in radical politics, science and philosophy.” (2)

Franklin was also a member of The Hellfire Club and you should know about John Dee and the Necronomicon as mentioned in this excerpt.

“John Montagu, Lord Sandwich (the face in the halo) and George Selwyn, (a close friend of Horace Walpole who visited in 1763) were among the inner circle of twelve. One of the female members, Lady Betty Germaine, became a particular friend of Walpole's; through her Walpole acquired one of Dr. Dee's celebrated scrying stones, the Angelic Stone, now in the British Museum. Mary Wortley Montagu, Lord Sandwich's grandmother and a member of the earlier Hellfire Club, was also said to have been a member.

Satirized in the novel Chrysal, or the Story of a Guinea by Charles Johnstone, and referenced in Charles Churchill's The Candidate, these Medmenhamites were a probable influence on Matthew Lewis's The Monk.

Benjamin Franklin joined the group on occasion and collaborated with Sir Francis to revise the Book of Common Prayer or Franklin Prayer Book still in use in America. Franklin was also associated with the radical Lunar Society which included Erasmus Darwin, Richard Edgeworth (Maria Edgeworth's father), and William Godwin's friend, Joseph Priestley.” (2)


http://www.williams.edu/resources/chapin/graphics/Dalla%20Croce%202.jpg

interesting article which touches on the idea that native ritual sacrifices in North America may have stemmed from or been enhanced by the outside foreign influences of the Rosicrucians (who are thought to have traveled the world and the Americas long, long before the official record of history mentions European contact/colonization of N. America.



http://www.redsofts.com/articles/read/11/32958/Rock_of_Ages.html


Rock of Ages


By:Robert Bruce Baird



William Jennings Bryan said: "Christians desire that their children shall be taught all the sciences, but they do not want them to lose sight of the Rock of Ages while they study the age of rocks."

It may seem incredible to those who do not know that the Churchians created the Devil as a means of keeping their flock in fear - who also think the Devil is a Pagan concept. The fear of death was not a Keltic concept and they weren't moved to assign all their wealth to some rich church when they approached death in order to avoid joining the Devil. Some Christian fundamentalists sell the idea that the age of rocks was a way that the Devil sought to lead Christians astray and these same people would have you teach your children the "Rock of Ages" has more veracity than the geology that proves we've had a long time on this earth to develop and learn what kind of Divine soul we are blessed with.

ASIATIC LAWS OF UNIVERSALITY IN THE 'STUPAS':

In other books I have explored the Dolmen and Round Towers of the ancient megalith Builders which resemble the symbolism of Man as represented in the steeple. They are part of the era after the truly great megaliths were built in places like Stonehenge and Poverty Point. The real meaning behind the form and structure may be similar though. Mircae Eliade was one of the Eranos Conference attendees with Jung and Campbell who I draw much insight from, in my studies. His scholarship is open and elucidative for me and I sincerely hope the reader will enjoy taking a journey with him to Barabudur. It is not easy for those of us in the present intellect-focused or faith oriented theology to integrate all aspects of how we might learn. Perhaps a simple suggestion to leave all preconceptions aside will suffice. So take off your 'thinking caps' and put your heart and soul on the front burner while the rose-coloured glasses of ego or faith diminish into the distance.

"On the subject of Barabudur, the famous temple on the island of Java and the most beautiful monument in Asia, whole libraries have been written. Purely technical explanations have been attempted taking account only of the laws of architecture; endless controversies have been joined over the religious and magical meanings hidden in that colossal monument. Dutch Orientalists and architects have published over the past fifteen years books of great value on Barabudur. The names of Krom, Van Erp, and Stutterheim must be mentioned. The last of these, in a work of 1927, laid the foundation for a true interpretation of the temple: 'Barabudur is nothing less than a symbolic representation of the Universe'. From this intuition Paul Mus's investigations start. The beginning of his book consists of a history of the controversy, an exposition of the principle hypotheses, and a critique of methods. Examined in turn are theories of the most illustrious India specialists, art historians and architects. Then Mus undertakes to discuss the problem. It must be remembered that this gigantic volume is preceded by an 'avant-propos' of 302 pages in which the author establishes the validity of his methodology. In order to justify the symbolic function of the Javanese temple, Mus emphasizes a truth often remarked by Orientalists: that if the Buddha was not represented iconographically for several centuries, it was not due to incapability on the part of Indian artists, but to the fact that a type of representation superior to images was essayed. 'That would not have been a defeat of plastic art, but rather the triumph of a magical art.' When an iconography of the Buddha was adopted, the symbolism was poor by comparison. The 'aniconic symbol' of Enlightenment (the wheel, etc.) was much more powerful, more 'pure', than the statue. Ananda Coomaraswamy also has published evidence for this thesis in his 'Elements of Buddhist Iconography'. (12) The conclusion to be drawn from this is that Buddhists, as well as Hindus (and Asians in general) {As well as the Sauk Indians we showed are from the area of the Great Wall and were Buddhists before the loss of magic represented by the change to graven images or iconography.} before Buddhism, used symbolism more effectively, precisely because the symbol was more comprehensive and 'Active' in the magical sense than plastic representation. If the Buddha was considered to be a god (as he was, in fact, immediately after his demise), then his magical 'presence' was preserved in anything emanating from him." (13)

A human statue or even a Gothic building representing the Temple of Solomon such as the Templars built into European cathedrals, does not convey the same representation of the 'Universe' or cosmos that runs through the veins of all living things. Many ancient beliefs were aware that spirit was within minerals and plants too: we are not this attuned and it is hard for us to see the vectors and lattices of energy in all things. Those who have read the 'Tao te Ching' or 'I Ching' understand a little of these energies that interact and CHANGE or grow with purpose. The 'Wheel of Life' in the Tarot is meant to capture some of this magic just as the dreams of North American Indians have been captured in the circular artistic wheels that sell in all so many souvenir stands. But it will be a long time before man again understands his exquisite interconnectiveness. We know too much to see such elegant simplicity of the spirit that is all around us. The Buddhists say 'All is Within' and the completion of the phrase is "the UNIVERSE!" I honour all myths that assist the 'oneness' in respect of the creative or intelligent design that so many insist is GOD. Here is an excerpt from my book Cherokee People (will return) to consume or cogitate upon.

In a moment we will return to my encyclopedia for more on the Zodiac because the mounds are a way of connecting to the cosmic energy which comes to earth and through which it passes and is part of. For the moment let us re-visit our present book’s early academic (Kenyon) as he actually (surprisingly) opens doors to the trepanning, skull deformation and ‘Obscene Ritual’ (Skull & Bones and the Bush family of Nazi leanings) of the Dragons and other Illuminized cults of elites.

“Let us return, finally, to the burial mounds of Ontario. These appear to be related in some complex fashion to the neolithic revolution. Their primary function, in all probability, was to mark the locations of sacred places and to establish territorial occupation. The sites they occupied were used as ceremonial centres for the loosely organized bands that occupied the surrounding areas (cf. Speck 1915). After spending the winter scattered throughout the band territory in small family groups, the people would assemble at a traditional spot, probably in the spring when fish were spawning or in the fall when beds of wild rice would be ready for harvesting. Only at those periods would food resources have been sufficiently abundant to maintain the entire band at one place.

These assemblies provided an opportunity for social interaction on a broader scale than would have been possible throughout most of the year. It was during such periods, too, that the chiefs and other leaders of the group would discuss band affairs with the various family heads and elders. But above all, such occasions provided an opportunity for all of the band members to participate in those rituals and ceremonies that reaffirmed and sustained community sentiments.

The nature of the ceremonies themselves cannot be determined at present, although we are offered a few tantalizing clues as to the subject matter around which they revolved. Most of the available data are derived, of course, from the burials found within the mounds and in submound pits.

In Northwestern Ontario, {Site of the Nipissing magi and Mediwiwin group who are influenced by Masons of the Christian Mystery School Complex or Rosicrucian Dragons.} the skulls that have openings in their occipital regions are reasonably clear evidence of power transfer. The individuals whose skulls were opened would have had some unusual and highly valued personal characteristics; the occipital openings made it possible to remove their brains and to transfer those characteristics from the dead to the living. This would have been accomplished through a religious ceremony that included eating the brain that was the seat of such wondrous powers. {I detail this in many books - and the modern Thalami research that is showing merit to the Cosmic Thought Field.} The eating, of course, could have been either actual or symbolic. {The Communion and Eucharist is derived from the earlier rituals of this sort. Only the most powerful elites get to eat the thalami for the much needed melatonin, iridium and rhodium.} In either event, the highly valued qualities would not be lost to the band through death but would be preserved through reincarnation. {The living cells as close to still living as possible are most needed and some of the old seers would end their lives during this ritual as they would have known throughout their life – it would happen.}

Such practices were probably much more widespread that the archaeological evidence would suggest at first glance; for we know that highly valued characteristics are often located in organs other than the brain. {Thus the Biblical ‘Devoted Ones’ shown in Cahill’s Gifts of the Jews were harvested for hearts too – as in the Aztec rituals and Moshe who also became impacted by these Dragons like the Prince of Palenque.} Our own western European culture, for example, locates many of its most highly prized characteristics in the heart. The point is that power transfer was probably much more widespread than current data suggest, simply because the removal of most organs for this purpose would have left no skeletal evidence…

One of the major ritual acts of the people, however, was the building of the mounds themselves. For it is almost certainly an error to look upon mound-building primarily in terms of engineering. {Especially the lesser and more mundane imitations of the period he is focused upon.} We must see it, rather, as a by-product of sociological processes; that is, we should look upon mound-building as we look upon the performance of a ballet or drama in our own society. Theatres may arise as a result of our interest in such cultural pursuits but the significance of a ballet or drama resides, surely, in the performance itself. The play’s the thing! Once the mound was built, of course, it would have served, as it does a theatre, as a backdrop for other rituals. For once again, it is through such rituals and ceremonies that human groups are bound together and that individual lives are shaped to ancestral patterns.

The masked and painted skulls from Hungry Hall were part of one such ritual. And when it was over, the skulls, like the props of a drama that had run its course, were tossed rather carelessly into the corner of a grave.” (14)



About the Author
Columnist in The ES Press Magazine
World-Mysteries.com guest expert
Author of Diverse Druids

Article Source: http://www.redsofts.com/articles/

[mrguitarbear]

https://www.insideoutshop.de/images/ReturntoChildhoodCD72dpi.jpg

Return to Childhood ( 2006 )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/58/FishSongsMirrorOriginal.jpg/200px-

Songs from the Mirror ( 1993 )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d2/Fish13thStarSlipcase.jpg/200px-

13th Star ( 2007 )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/FishVigil.jpg

Vigil in a Wilderness of Mirrors ( 1990 )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/FishInternalExileOriginal.jpg

Internal Exile ( 1991 )

[hunkahunka]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/ronin8/Rolling-Stones-Goats-Head-Soup--633.jpg

David Bailey, the photographer who designed and photographed the cover art for the Rolling Stone's album
Goat's Head Soup, traveled to New Guinea two years later, and stayed there five weeks photographing the head-hunting cannibals .
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uGLziOSeUxsJ:www.pdngallery.com/legends/bailey/interview13.shtml+david+bailey+five+weeks+cannibal s&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

[mrguitarbear]

http://www.the-company.com/images/graphics/foolsdvd.jpg

Fish as Harlequin

http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/M/marillion_misplacef.jpg

Misplaced Childhood album cover ( 1985 )

http://www.prato.linux.it/~lmasetti/antiwarsongs/img/upl/script.jpg

Script for a Jester's Tear ( 1983 )

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l275/markblinn1968/Fugazi1.jpg

Fugazi ( 1984 )

[mrguitarbear]

Interesting song titles on the Fugazi album too :

Assassing - about metaphorical ( ? ) assassination.
Punch and Judy - about a man beating and then poisoning his wife.
Jigsaw
Emerald Lies
She-Chameleon
Incubus
Fugazi - about alcoholism and insanity.

The first two song titles bring to mind William Burroughs and Joan Volmer.

[hunkahunka]

The people we are seeing in Venice in these photos are our elite, of that there is no doubt. Their costumes alone
cost incredible amounts of money. Then there is travel from around the globe, and luxury accomodation, very costly , perennial, and ritualistic indulgence.

The people we are seeing in New Guinea in these photos are their elite, and it is the elite who traditionally eat
highest on the food chain. I look at the costumes and customs of these indigenous tribes and suspect that they draw continual influence
from all sources, and perhaps it was ancient European travellers who introduced them to cannibalism, and maybe this is
why their tribal costumes seem to mirror the European costumes .



http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-07/fore-tribe-papua-kuru.jpg
http://www.carnivalofvenice.com/Files/organizers/3/gruppox500.jpg
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/id/id2872.JPG

http://www.paliotours.com/webpage/piazza%20san%20marco.JPG

http://www.deathreference.com/images/medd_01_img0019.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/italianfood/1/0/d/6/063.jpg





http://www.visit-venice-italy.com/pics/carnival/venice_carnival_masks_costume_2.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/225256396_34b785bd5f.jpg

http://orient-express.lbwa.verio.net/ocip/images/medimages/ocip_150_carnival29.jpg

[amethyst]

Saw this today. Interesting tattoo on Meagan Fox.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/473/ad68ae595a202cbca915c49ej2.jpg

It says:

"We will all laugh at gilded butterflys". :(

[bobthegoon]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/AvrilLavigne.jpg
avril lavigne making the sign of silence

here she draws a heart on a mirror
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/avril_lavigne.jpg

next one is weird
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/Avril-Lavigne-Ashlee-Simpson--31735.jpg
two different eye and hair colours symbolizing different personalities imo
also the emerald ring..

btw wasn't Mengele researching/doing the change of eye colour via torture ?


Also in the first pic isn't that a picture of a skull on the badge she's wearing?

[soulja]

Also in the first pic isn't that a picture of a skull on the badge she's wearing?

looks like it yea. Avril is seriously into skull imagery, her videos are full of it and if you do a image search on her every fourth pic or so will sport a skull.

[mrguitarbear]

http://www.mychemicaltoilet.com/mrbowie.jpg

David Bowie has eyes of different colours , supposedly because he was punched in the eye and it became paralysed so the pupil remained dilated.

[mrguitarbear]

looks like it yea. Avril is seriously into skull imagery, her videos are full of it and if you do a image search on her every fourth pic or so will sport a skull.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=409877&postcount=56

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=409883&postcount=57

From the ' Which celebrities are victims of mindcontrol/sra ' thread :

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28416&page=6

[mrguitarbear]

The Resident Evil computer game ( which features the Umberella Corporation ) has a puzzle in it where you have to place two gem eyes ( red and blue ) into a stone tiger's head. This puzzle features again in RE : Code Veronica if I remember correctly.

[mrguitarbear]

Kurt Cobain named his daughter Frances Bean Cobain after the actress Frances Farmer ( 1913-1970 ) and Courtney Love got married to Kurt in one of Frances Farmer's old dresses.

Nirvana recorded ' Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle ' and Culture Club ( i.e. Boy George ) recorded ' The Medal Song ' about her.

[mrguitarbear]

The picture of Avril with the different coloured eyes/hair is really weird , it freaks me out a bit.

BUT...

Is that a throne she is sitting it ? ( as in monarch... )

[soulja]

The picture of Avril with the different coloured eyes/hair is really weird , it freaks me out a bit.

BUT...

Is that a throne she is sitting it ? ( as in monarch... )

yea you'll see that alot with celebs, sitting on a throne, often with some red/golden colouring. i think it's more a symbol for telling us she's bloodline but you might be right and it's a play on monarch (as in MK). never looked at it from that angle tbh. btw keep it up man, great posts - enjoying the thread ;)

[hunkahunka]

Kurt Cobain named his daughter Frances Bean Cobain after the actress Frances Farmer ( 1913-1970 ) and Courtney Love got married to Kurt in one of Frances Farmer's old dresses.

Nirvana recorded ' Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle ' and Culture Club ( i.e. Boy George ) recorded ' The Medal Song ' about her.

I agree with you there . There are some who claim that Frances Bean was hnamed after a stripper friend of Kurt's and Courtneys, but that imo is just a cover story they used to dispel controversy.

I think Frances Farmer was either a successful or failed mind control project,
and heaven knows why Cobain would want his daughter named after her.
Maybe these lyrics to the song

'Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle' hold the clue :; :


It's so relieving
To know that you're leaving as soon as you get paid
It's so relaxing
To hear that you're asking wherever you get your way
It's so soothing
To know that you'll sue me, this is starting to sound the same

I miss the comfort in being sad [x3]

In her false witness, we hope you're still with us,
To see if they float or drown
Our favorite patient, a display of patience,
Disease-covered Puget Sound
She'll come back as fire, to burn all the liars,
And leave a blanket of ash on the ground

I miss the comfort in being sad [x3]

It's so relieving
To know that you're leaving as soon as you get paid
It's so relaxing
To know that you're asking wherever you get your way
It's so soothing
To know that you'll sue me, this is starting to sound the same

I miss the comfort in being sad [x3]


Did he want his daughter to exact some sort of revenge on the people
who did this MK trauma to Frances Farmer and himself? Was this Cobain's declaration
of war on the Illuminati? Cobain was dead six months after recording that song.

[soulja]

I agree with you there . There are some who claim that Frances Bean was hnamed after a stripper friend of Kurt's and Courtneys, but that imo is just a cover story they used to dispel controversy.

I think Frances Farmer was either a successful or failed mind control project,


having read up on her a bit, i go for failed mk-project.

Frances Elena Farmer (September 19, 1913 – August 1, 1970) was an American film, television and theater actress. She is perhaps better known for sensationalized and fictional accounts of her life, and especially her six-year involuntary commitment to a mental hospital. Farmer was the subject of three films, three books, and numerous songs and magazine articles.

Arrest

On October 19, 1942, she was stopped by the police in Santa Monica for driving with her headlights on bright in the wartime blackout zone that affected most of the West Coast. Some reports say she was unable to produce a driver's license and was verbally abusive. The police suspected her of being drunk and she was jailed overnight. Farmer was fined $500 and given a 180-day suspended sentence. She immediately paid $250 and was put on probation.

By January 1943, she failed to pay the rest of the fine and a bench warrant was issued for her arrest. At almost the same time, a studio hairdresser filed an assault charge alleging that Farmer had dislocated her jaw on the set. The police traced Farmer to the Knickerbocker Hotel in Hollywood. Getting no answer, they entered her room with a pass key. They reportedly found her in bed (some stories include an episode involving the bathroom) and made her dress quickly. By all accounts, she did not surrender peacefully.

At her hearing the next morning, she behaved erratically. She claimed the police had violated her civil rights, demanded an attorney, and threw an inkwell at the judge. He immediately sentenced her to 180 days in jail. She knocked down a policeman and bruised another, along with a matron. She ran to a phone booth where she tried to call her attorney, but was subdued by the police. They physically carried her away as she shouted, “Have you ever had a broken heart?”

Newspaper reports gave sensationalized accounts of her arrest. Through the efforts of her sister-in-law, a deputy sheriff in Los Angeles County, Farmer was transferred to the psychiatric ward of L.A. General Hospital. There she was diagnosed with "manic depressive psychosis"[/B].

[B]First hospitalization

Within days, having been sent to the San Fernando Valley and the Kimball Sanitarium in La Crescenta, Farmer was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. She was given insulin shock therapy, a treatment then accepted as standard psychiatric procedure but later discredited. The side effects included intense nausea.

Her family later claimed they did not give their consent to the treatment, as documented in her sister's self-published book, Look Back in Love, and in court records. The sanitarium was a minimum-security facility. After about nine months, Farmer walked away one afternoon and went to her half-sister Rita's house over 20 miles (32 km) away. The pair called their mother in Seattle to complain about the insulin treatment.

Lillian Farmer traveled to California and began a lengthy legal battle to have guardianship of her daughter transferred from the state of California to her. Although several psychiatrists testified that Farmer needed further treatment, her mother prevailed. The two of them left Los Angeles by train on September 13, 1943.[1]


Western State Hospital and later life

Farmer moved back in with her parents in West Seattle, but she and her mother fought bitterly. Within six months, Farmer physically attacked her mother. Her mother then had Frances Farmer committed to Western State Hospital at Steilacoom, Washington. There, Farmer sometimes received electro-convulsive shock treatment (ECT). Three months later, during the summer of 1944, she was pronounced "completely cured" and released.

While traveling with her father to visit at an aunt's ranch in Reno, Nevada, Farmer ran away. She spent time with a family who had picked her up hitchhiking, but she was eventually arrested for vagrancy in Antioch, California. Her arrest received wide publicity. Offers for help came in from across the country, but Farmer ignored them all. After a long stay with her aunt in Nevada, Farmer went back to her parents. At her mother's request, at age 32, Farmer was recommitted to Western State Hospital in May 1945 and remained there almost five years, with the exception of a brief parole in 1946.

Sensationalized accounts

In the years following Farmer's death in 1970, her treatment at Western State was the subject of serious discussion and wild speculation. Kenneth Anger included a chapter relating her breakdown in Hollywood Babylon. Farmer's ghostwritten, posthumously published autobiography Will There Really Be A Morning described a brutal incarceration. It claimed Farmer had been brutalized and mistreated in numerous ways. Some of the claims included being forced to eat her own feces and act as a sex slave for male doctors and orderlies. Farmer's ghostwriter and friend Jean Ratcliffe later admitted she had written the version to be marketable and saleable.

In 1978, Seattle film reviewer William Arnold published Shadowland, which for the first time alleged that Farmer had been the subject of a transorbital lobotomy. Scenes of Farmer being subjected to this lobotomy procedure were part of the 1982 film Frances, which had initially been planned as an adaptation of Shadowland, though its producers ultimately reneged on their agreement with Arnold.[1] During a court case against Brooksfilms (the film's producers), Arnold revealed that the lobotomy episode and much of his biography about Farmer was "fictionalized".[1] Years later, on a DVD commentary track of the film Frances, director Graeme Clifford stated, "We didn't want to nickel and dime people to death with facts."[3]

In The Lobotomist, his biography of Walter Freeman, author Jack El-Hai, who had access to all of Freeman's patient records, found no mention of Farmer whatsoever. Farmer's sister, Edith, denied that the procedure was done. She said the hospital asked her parents permission to perform the lobotomy, but her father was “horrified” by the notion and threatened legal action "if they tried any of their guinea pig operations on her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Farmer

[mrguitarbear]

yea you'll see that alot with celebs, sitting on a throne, often with some red/golden colouring. i think it's more a symbol for telling us she's bloodline but you might be right and it's a play on monarch (as in MK). never looked at it from that angle tbh. btw keep it up man, great posts - enjoying the thread ;)

Posh and Beckham had thrones for their wedding didn't they ?

[hunkahunka]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00006JY2I.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
[/quote]

I noticed the butterfly tshirt.

[soulja]

yes the butterfly, that alone justifies the post imo but i was more intrigued by the name ''crossroads'' cos i have this feeling it relates in someway to mk.
i just don't know how. and maybe it's just a figment of my imagination but i believe i've read about the term crossroads in relation to mk somewhere.

anyway, someone pointed out to me that theres a treatment/rehab facility called ''Crossroads Center Antigua''
http://crossroadsantigua.org/

it's run by (or at least figureheaded) Eric Clapton.

the same person (greetings btw ;)) who pointed that out to me also drew my attention to another rehab center called ''Cirque Lodge'' in Utah.

lots of celebs underwent ''treatment'' there mostly for cocaine addiction

for example, Mary Kate
http://fashionista.com/images/mary-kate_olsen.jpg

and ex-mouseketeers Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan went there aswell.

also Eva Mendes..

so we have those ''odd'' names for rehab centers wich treat celebs.

''crossroads'' ''cirque lodge'' (would a programmer consider his pool of celebs as a cirque? - just a thought) lodge as in masonic lodge ? another thought :D

anyway another rehab center i was made aware of goes by the name wonderland center.

then there is the one Amy winehouse went to called Priory group wich is a whole network of child care, rehabs and so on. also there were allegations of child abuse brought forward against them.

i have nothing concrete on all those places but they give me a dodgy vibe.

[hunkahunka]

yes the butterfly, that alone justifies the post imo but i was more intrigued by the name ''crossroads'' cos i have this feeling it relates in someway to mk.
i just don't know how. and maybe it's just a figment of my imagination but i believe i've read about the term crossroads in relation to mk somewhere.

anyway, someone pointed out to me that theres a treatment/rehab facility called ''Crossroads Center Antigua''
http://crossroadsantigua.org/

it's run by (or at least figureheaded) Eric Clapton.

the same person (greetings btw ;)) who pointed that out to me also drew my attention to another rehab center called ''Cirque Lodge'' in Utah.

lots of celebs underwent ''treatment'' there mostly for cocaine addiction

for example, Mary Kate
http://fashionista.com/images/mary-kate_olsen.jpg

and ex-mouseketeers Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan went there aswell.

also Eva Mendes..

so we have those ''odd'' names for rehab centers wich treat celebs.

''crossroads'' ''cirque lodge'' (would a programmer consider his pool of celebs as a cirque? - just a thought) lodge as in masonic lodge ? another thought :D

anyway another rehab center i was made aware of goes by the name wonderland center.

then there is the one Amy winehouse went to called Priory group wich is a whole network of child care, rehabs and so on. also there were allegations of child abuse brought forward against them.

i have nothing concrete on all those places but they give me a dodgy vibe.

wasn't Cobain last seen alive at a rehab center?

[rixxmixxhell]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g294/clgarcia0331/42914_Silent_Hill_06.jpg

I thought this would fit in here. Not to be taken serious, it is a piss-take mock up of the infamous Pyramid Head from the Silent Hill Series.

Well - a pointless contribution, but, well, as a fan of Silent Hill, i can see the humour but thought of you lot in here when i see it!

Oh and to note - i actually had areal rainbow outside my house yeserday. no dolly or dolls with it though ;)

Rick

[miss_splitfoot]

wasn't Cobain last seen alive at a rehab center?

no, this is what c love told the police, but Duff McKagan ex-bassist of Guns N' Roses sat next to Kurt on a plane from L.A. to Seattle after Cobain left rehab.

also, his housekeeper & a hanger-on said Kurt had been at his house post-rehab.

[miss_splitfoot]

P.S. noticed something on my lolly stick tonight:

http:///brandcom.unilever.com/v2Public/HeartBrand/uk_en/product/realCategories/wall-s/detailsPar/flavourImage/walls_130x95.gif
Wall's Ice Cream logo

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9051/glyo1.jpg :eek:

[hunkahunka]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RF5SVFR2L._SL500_AA280_.jpg


RAINBOW BRIDGE is a loose "mystical voyage" story built around Jimi Hendrix's final concert performance at Rainbow Bridge, Hawaii..


Note the odd similarities between Cobain and Hendrix. Both Seattle-area
low-income musicians, drug users, died at the age of 27.


Early life

Hendrix was born on November 27, 1942, in Seattle, Washington, USA, while his father was in army camp in Oklahoma. He was named Johnny Allen Hendrix at birth by his mother, 17 year old Lucille Hendrix née Jeter.[10] She had put him in the temporary care of friends. On his release from the army his father, James Allen "Al" Hendrix, retrieved him and re-named him James Marshall Hendrix in memory of his deceased brother, Leon Marshall Hendrix.[11][12] He was known as "Buster" to friends and family, from birth.[13] Shortly after, Al reunited with Lucille. Al found it hard to gain steady employment after the Second World War, and the family experienced financial hardship. Hendrix had two brothers, Leon and Joseph, and two sisters, Kathy and Pamela. Joseph was born with physical difficulties and at the age of three was given up to state care. His two sisters were both given up at a relatively early age, for care and later adoption, Kathy was born blind and Pamela had some lesser physical difficulties. Hendrix's parents divorced when he was nine years old, and his mother died in 1958. On occasion, he was sent to live with his grandmother in Vancouver, British Columbia because of his unstable household, and his brother Leon was put into temporary welfare care for a period

http://home.wlv.ac.uk/~fa1871/London%20OZ_files/image021.jpg

[miss_splitfoot]

adding to the mishmash, here's an interesting link i found at A N Other site:
David Bowie & the Occult (http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/bowie.htm)

[lizzy]

What strikes me as odd, is that Courtney Love made a habit of plying the media with 'heroin' stories.
She was notorious for playing the media and at least once voluntarily contacted the media with a false story about hers and Kurt's drug use.

While this was long ago dismissed and written off as a publicity ploy, a mere stunt for media attention,what if it were
actually something else? What if it really is true that grunge was created
by the CIA, and that part of the plan was to popularize heroin use by associating it with glamorous rock stars?
In that case, Love would have been following orders to make their drug use public.


What if Cobain's plan to stop using drugs angered the people who had made him who he was? Maybe they wanted him
to stay addicted to maintain control of him, and feared that once he kicked the drugs , he was going to start remembering things
and revealing things that they did not want him talking about? What if the drugs were crucial to
suppressing his memories, and they wanted to keep him quiet?

This reminds me of the stories of aging prostitutes who are mysteriously murdered by 'serial killers' almost the moment they
kick heroine and try to retire. Can't let them go 'straight' with all that they know about who supplied them their drugs, and setting a bad example to all the other addicts out there. Think of it. If a hooker were to kick the drugs, and start helping her friends and younger girls kick the drugs, next thing you know you have a confict on your hands. The dealers want the money to keep rolling in. They do everything they can to keep the girls addicted and hooking, while the 'reformed' prostitute is working against them, trying to save her friends that are still alive and get them off the drugs, and the worst part is that she becomes walking proof that it is possible.

Then the dummy might get the bright idea to help the police bust the suppliers of the drugs by sharing what she knows about who. A terribly bad influence on the youngsters, and a threat to the security of the network, she is found dead in the river like a lot of others.

Maybe Cobain was set to go making a nuisance of himself the same way. Off the drugs, and in rehab boasting about how he'd like to warn his young fans about drugs etc.

Nirvana came from 'out of nowhere' , and suddenly got heavy MTV rotation of their videos, and coincidentally
happened to be already touring in Europe on the strength of a no-name unknown album.

Then it goes around to all the young people that Cobain's on heroin, heroin is the in thing, and oh, somebody knows someone else who can get them some to try out. This looks contrived to me. The same people providing the music and the MTV publicity etc.are the ones providing the drugs: the international narcotics trade.
It is known that MTV is allegedly owned by figurehead Murray Sumner Rothstein (aka Sumner Redstone) , who is a former OSS/CIA encryption specialist. Rothstein worked for the OSS cracking Japanese codes during WWII.
Rothstein/Redstone is CIA all the way. The CIA is notorious for running drugs all over the world. Does Rothstein really own all those huge networks and
conglomerates, etc? Or is he really just the figurehead for the true owner:
the CIA. Are we in frigging communist Russia, with the KGB owning bloody television stations and newspapers?

So now are we starting to see why the heroin-addicted Cobain found himself on MTV and in 40,000 seat venues? He was there to promote heroin use, because at the time , white kids were starting to reject, en masse, the 'ghetto chic' drug culture that MTV was merchandising.

Grunge was created as a 'white ghetto' alternative, imo. The end goal being the same: Make street culture de rigeur among kids as a conduit to push drugs.

I think with Cobain they gave up, blew his head off, and decided to make the drug dealers themselves the MTV stars, with people like Snoop Doggie Dog and Nelly and all the other 'gangstas'. Why fart around with risky white
icons like Cobain?

hunkahunka,.......I know the thread has progressed but I am reading it for the first time and I could'nt pass this one up without some sort of acknowledgement......
I think you are bang on.
Much like the relevations of my era, how hippie music in Laural Canyon was started by kids from military and CIA backgrounds, why should'nt the next "big" thing be the same contrivence......but the controllers upped the anti from grass to heroin, makes sense to me........
The bridge that Kurt lived under now has a massive sculpture of an oger.
I moved to Seattle from London 1979 but knew little of the 'scene' at that time. (hint..diapers / nappies, LOL )
My daughter bought 'Nevermind' , punkish was mainstream but I kept my kids busy with sport.
I liked the Foo Fighters, LOL.

[hunkahunka]

http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/dance/herrang%202004/s_GB%20glace.jpg

[brown velvet]

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/frances/index.htm

thought this site was really clear, - thank you, and she was too old to become DID. Probably wouldn't comply with the favours she was required to do?

brown.

[brown velvet]

What strikes me as odd, is that Courtney Love made a habit of plying the media with 'heroin' stories.

and I agree with lizzy, I think this sounds scarily feasible, a really good point, really well written, will try it out on some of my more Nirvana type friends :D

brown.

[mrblitz]

Cobain lived under the Fremont Bridge (that's the one with the ogre)? I didn't know that.

[brown velvet]

Cobain lived under the Fremont Bridge (that's the one with the ogre)? I didn't know that.


cool, or what?

brown.

http://gi250.photobucket.com/groups/gg252/5E9WX64JC1/FremontBridge.jpg

[rixxmixxhell]

That is frakkin cool!!! Was he real and then got frozen or turned to stone as he was trying to escape his world? Poor thing ill have him, he can guard chicken coops or something!!!.

hehehe sorry i couldn't resist....

Rick

[brown velvet]

That is frakkin cool!!! Was he real and then got frozen or turned to stone as he was trying to escape his world? Poor thing ill have him, he can guard chicken coops or something!!!.

hehehe sorry i couldn't resist....

Rick


hiya

He was real.... he got caught watching late night tv by his mum, ran away from home, found a portal....... and you want him to look after your chickens? Aaaah :D

brown.

[brown velvet]

yea you'll see that alot with celebs,

Hey soulja :p

seeing as you seem to be hot on the celeb stuff, was wondering, is there a way to see if there is a theme of broken arms / legs or plaster casts on any one around age 13 / 14 / 15?

:oNo worries if the info is unobtainable, wouldn't even know where to start searching.....

brown.

[rixxmixxhell]

@ Brown lol

He does look like Gandalf the Grey don't ya think?

Well, giants aside, that is a very cool statute.

Rick

[hunkahunka]

Kurt Cobain named his daughter Frances Bean Cobain after the actress Frances Farmer ( 1913-1970 ) and Courtney Love got married to Kurt in one of Frances Farmer's old dresses.

Nirvana recorded ' Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle ' and Culture Club ( i.e. Boy George ) recorded ' The Medal Song ' about her.

It looks like the Illuminati may have taken a real interest in Farmer because of her birth date: 09 19 1913, maybe that had some significance to them.
http://ladymarjorie.blogia.com/upload/20061123024106-farmr1.jpg

this odd quote from his alleged suicide note:

"a daughter (Frances Bean) who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. "
Sounds like he knows that Frances Bean will be used as a 'project', because he knows that Courtney is tied up in the whole thing.

I think this note is explaining why he wants out of the CIA drug/music industry scene, and is not a suicide note. I agree that the last lines of the note may have been added by some one else later:




Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your alter.
Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me.

I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!
I'll be at your alter? What is that all about?

[americana]

This is a fantastic thread. So much information to consider!

Anyway, in regards to the gemstones, has anyone heard of black diamonds as gifts given to mind/sex slaves?

And in that regard, does anyone else know anyone in "real" life who has been given gemstones in this context? By asking this question, please know that I am NOT, by any means, debating what has been written in this thread.


Also, sorry for my ignorance of the issue, but is there a chance that any "overt" triggering might make someone with mind-control ill? In particular, I am thinking about a musical with blatant symbolism.

The bit about umbrellas is fascinating. I have a friend who absolutely will not allow himself to be covered by an umbrella. He finds this traumatic beyond belief (along with many other things). I am now realizing that it may be something from his past.

I am wondering if anyone here might give me any recommendations for websites regarding these issues. (Where are you getting all the text, Soulja? Thanks for all the great information.)

[hunkahunka]

I think it safe to say that it makes this album cover a bit more
interesting:

http://data1.blog.de/blog/r/renate/img/Utero_front.jpg
http://www.nirvanafreak.net/albums/pics/inuteroback.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s108/sataniksantah/William-S-Burroughs-w-gun.jpg
William Burroughs shot his wife Joan Vollmer in the head when she was 27 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Vollmer
Joan Vollmer Adams aka Joan Vollmer Burroughs (b. 1924, Loudonville, New York — d. September 6, 1951, Mexico City, Mexico)

http://bp2.blogger.com/_68wkl2XsVXU/SAvEVfb8onI/AAAAAAAAAJI/2ohODWzM_qM/s320/Spare+Ass+Annie+and+Other+Tales.jpg

[hunkahunka]

The Death of Joan Vollmer Burroughs



(Grauerholz, Jan. 2002)
p. 2
Dec. 5, 2003
This article was presented at a scholarly conference in Mexico in October
2001, and last revised in January 2002. In the past two years additional evidence has come to light, and
although the author has not revised the essay again, he wishes to point out briefly some changes that
should be made:
About the fatal shooting on Sept. 6, 1951, the essay says: "Lewis Marker and Eddie Woods were
present with Burroughs and Vollmer at the moment of the shooting. No one else can be shown to have
been there at the time, but others who were reportedly in the apartment within a few hours before, or
just after, the shooting include Betty Jones, John Healy, Juana Peñaloza, and John Herrmann."
Subsequent oral-history research now indicates that the four shooting witness/participants were
in an alcove area of the large apartment, and that there was -- in fact -- a party going on in another,
larger room nearby. Kells Elvins' friend, Ted Marak, states that he had just walked into the party,
probably with Kells, when the shot was heard; he remembers there were "seven or eight" persons in the
party room, which was about twenty feet from the alcove where the shooting occurred.
This, and other details of Marak's recent testimony (to Prof. Rob Johnson of the University of
Texas/Pan American), do not directly conflict with the eyewitness accounts of participants Marker and
Woods, or the accounts of others who were in the apartment building at some point that afternoon
(Healy, Mejía, Peñaloza, and reporters for at least five Mexico City newspapers). The four persons in
the alcove were preoccupied only with events occurring in front of them, and any persons in another
room were ignoring, or unaware of, those events.
As to whether Burroughs said to Vollmer something like "It's about time for our William Tell act,"
with its implication that they had done something like this before 1951, the essay presents conflicting
evidence: Eyewitness Lewis Marker told biographer Ted Morgan that Burroughs did say it, and he added:
"there was no suggestion, that I recall, that it had been done in the past, you know, but clearly, the
implications are obvious, you know. Probably even mentioned the glass on the head or something like
that, since [they] didn't have an apple ...."
Eyewitness Eddie Woods told Ted Morgan that he did not recall Burroughs saying anything about
"William Tell," and did not think that he did.
Burroughs' own "version #1" of the event, as told to El Nacional on Sept. 7, 1951, appears to confess
that he did say it.
Interviewed by Conrad Knickerbocker in 1965, Burroughs flatly denied that he mentioned William
Tell, or even aimed the gun toward Vollmer.
To filmmaker Howard Brookner in 1980, Burroughs stated that he did make the remark to Vollmer,
but when Brookner asked, "Had you done the William Tell thing before?" Burroughs replied: "Never.
Never. Never. Just an absolute piece of insanity."
To biographer Ted Morgan in the mid-1980s, Burroughs admitted that he did say it; as to whether it
was the first time they did a "William Tell act," there is no clear statement in the Burroughs-Morgan
interviews.
But Ted Marak, who knew Burroughs, Vollmer, and Kells Elvins when all of them lived in Pharr,
Texas, just before Burroughs moved to Mexico in late 1949, told Prof. Rob Johnson and documentary
filmmaker Matt McClung on Sept. 27, 2002, that he personally witnessed Burroughs and Vollmer doing
something like this in Texas in the 1940s. Johnson described Marak's filmed interview to me this way:
"[Marak said he] did not actually SEE the [1951] accident, he HEARD it, and he remembered being
told Billy had shot a piece of fruit off her head, but he has since learned that it was a drinking glass.
"He told me the reason he thought it was a piece of fruit was that he had seen Billy shoot a
grapefruit, or an orange, off of Joan's head when he knew them in South Texas. He might have seen this
trick more than once, at Kells' orchard. So when he heard the report of the gun that night, it flashed to
him that perhaps Billy was performing this trick for the people at the party.
"He then added another reminiscence. Billy was an expert shot, he said. Ted and Kells would throw
grapefruit into the air and Billy would hit them on the fly, using a pistol. The grapefruit would
explode. Ted was in the army and earned the 'expert' classification as a marksman, so he was a good
judge of Billy's talents."
I believe Marak is a credible witness, and if what he says is true, it certainly puts that famous
comment in a new light.
The essay addresses the possible role of bribery in Burroughs' release on bail after two weeks in
jail (under weekly supervision, for a year, until he fled Mexico), and his eventual judgment and
sentence (found guilty of the equivalent of negligent homicide, two years' imprisonment, suspended).
The strongest essay statement on this: "Burroughs believed that the Mexican justice system was
infinitely corrupt, or corruptible. While it is certain that, during the administration of President
Miguel Alemán, 1946–1952, the mordida (bribery system) reached new heights of prevalence, there is no
evidence that either of the two presiding judges was swayed by any such bribes."


As Burroughs writes in Junkie, "My wife came to see me [at De Paul] and reported that the
management did not know anything about junk or junkies." Joan talked with Link, and they
found another doctor, who intervened to prescribe Demerol, which eased Burroughs' misery.
Upon Burroughs' admission to De Paul, an interviewer named Joyce Adams took a complete
social history from the patient's wife, Joan Vollmer Burroughs. Ms. Adams' "Impression" entry
is revealing:
Patient's wife appeared to be an attractive woman [...] She was expensively
dressed, walked with a limp due to polio in the past year. She was restless, spoke
with a fixed, forced smile throughout the interview, smoked one cigarette
practically after the other. She was admittedly "nervous," ducked or raised her
head to the ceiling when speaking, but seldom met interviewer's eyes. She [...] is
believed not to have been completely frank with the knowledge in her possession.
[...] There were several bruises on her arms, for which she declined to give an

explanation other than words to the effect that she "bruised easily." On the
surface, she was friendly. Her vocabulary was excellent.

It became an open secret among street junkies that if the supply got tight, you
could always commit yourself to Lexington, where heroin and morphine were
doled out as payment if you volunteered for [Dr. Harris] Isbell's wacky drug
experiments [with psychoactive drugs such as LSD]. [...]
The patients at Lexington had no way of knowing that it was one of fifteen
penal and mental institutions utilized by the CIA in its super-secret drug
development program during the 1950s.

[deafbred]

was just watching a diqusting segment on autism on Larry King LIVE
seeing these "doctors" discuse how they need to get their hands on more children earlier so they can "diagnose" them for 'traits' on a broad spectrum to label them 'autistic' ......and give them MEDS.

I watched these doctors like lemmings squirm and flute their disqusting ideas on LIVE television. (...the poor children) ...can you imagine growing up in this world being surrounded by outside forces looking in our your precious developing life.. - labeling you....judging you...conforming you to the box they see you with their narrow eyes. I get outraged seeing these son's of bitches disect and infect the next generation with their GRAND idea's of how a human should be.

Not to mention the whole hospital one of these guys was representing

...WAS THE RAINBOW CHILDRENS HOSPITAL (http://www.uhhospitals.org/Default.aspx?alias=www.uhhospitals.org/rainbowchildren)

http://www.uhhospitals.org/Default.aspx?alias=www.uhhospitals.org/rainbowchildren

brodening their sickening spectrum of 'sickness' diagnosis.

WE ARE BEING FED ON. ...IN EVERY SICK DEGENERATE DISQUSTING POLLUTED WAY. ...a doctor tried to label me as bi-polar tendencies once...I shot it right back to him and said "how do you know my mind?....you think you know my mind? ....you don't know my mind...you only know your own and you know very well what you are doing, trying to deceave me so you can have your way with me, you cross the line" (he sat their with an evil smile on his face...I said "why are you laughing" "this is serious buisness buddy" ...he continued to laugh at me. I told him he didn't respect my life and was crossing the line. trying to label me as 'sick' and prop me up for ingestion of mind altering drugs and all for pure profit so he can eat his fish dinner and take his wife on expensive sail boat trips to other lands. Basically.
one could only imagine.

anyways...this hospital represents children and use's a rainbow, I just thought I would put the info out there. ANOTHER RAINBOW ---these people who represent LIGHT and all the COLORS are sinister evil blackened BAD WORD talkers who judge us and gossip about us and confine the lines of our demise to their ideas of mind which allow them to go about their buisness to unaturally effect the world for the means of destruction absolute throughout.

ITS GATA STOP - here and ~Now. WAKE up people we got a battle that has ~always, been. Its present. Good God...it goes on and on...the filth of the bucket of judgment. Evil people defaming destroying the living ones who are in the light.

http://staging.uhhospitals.org/Portals/0/content/aboutus/babyGlobe.gif
taking all the children of the world to their conformity control

http://www.uhhospitals.org/Portals/0/Images/GivingToRainbow/CircleOfFriends/CoF__logo.jpg

[hunkahunka]

http://images2.cafemom.com/images/user/gallery/41_1172348385.jpg



Meet 'Women's Auxiliary
of NAMBLA'
Website celebrates sex between adult women, young girls
Posted: July 22, 2002


Celebrating erotic relationships between women and young girls is the theme of a website called "Butterfly Kisses

1:00 am Eastern
http://www.equalparenting-bc.ca/news/images/butterfly_kisses_jrnew.jpg

By Art Moore
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Editor's note: Since posting this story, a hotlink to "Butterfly Kisses" from within the text has triggered "runaway pop-ups," which hinders access to the site. To avoid this try the following address:
this is a copy of the original site:
http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0207/bf_supergirls.pdf

WARNING: The Butterfly Kisses website contains graphic and offensive written sexual material and is not suitable for viewing by children.

Celebrating erotic relationships between women and young girls is the theme of a website called "Butterfly Kisses," which indicates the relatively unknown fact that pedophilia exists in significant numbers among females.

While the site's creators do not identify themselves, posted articles show how some advocates are attempting to create an academic rationale for what is commonly and legally regarded as abuse and molestation.

"It's very dangerous when you begin to see women organize in the same way you have seen men organized to rape children," said noted researcher Judith Reisman, who referred to the people behind the website as the "Women's Auxiliary of NAMBLA," the North American Man-Boy Love Association.

While the site's opening page features an apparently wholesome photograph of a mother appreciating her child, "the primary goal" of presenting the subsequent material is clearly stated in the introduction as giving "women and girls a tool for expressing their feelings and their love about this controversial topic, and to get people to open their minds to ideas about romantic and erotic attraction between women and girls that our society in the past has not been able to discuss openly and rationally."

WorldNetDaily was alerted to the website by reader Sandra Hartle of Spanaway, Wash., a grandmother who is part of a group that has helped shut down about 1,000 pornographic sites on the Microsoft Network's website communities.

She has discovered private sites on MSN depicting elementary school-age boys with adult men, but found "Butterfly Kisses" a particular threat to families like her own.

"Some of the information on this site is so terrifying to someone who has three granddaughters that I cannot express my shock," said Hartle.

"How someone could harm a child that is so tender and vulnerable is beyond my wildest imaginations," she said, "but when a woman can and does violate that child sexually it is somehow more devastating than even when you hear of these things being done by men."

The "Butterfly Kisses" website indicates it is hosted by an entity called "Ipce," which describes itself as a "forum for people who are engaged in scholarly discussion about the understanding and emancipation of mutual relationships between children or adolescents and adults."

The Ipce description says, "In this context, these relationships are intended to be viewed from an unbiased, non-judgmental perspective and in relation to the human rights of both the young and adult partners."

Global scope

The Butterfly Kisses and Ipce sites have Web addresses that indicate their origin in the Netherlands. A story in the Autumn 1987 issue of the Dutch-based Paidika: Journal of Paedophilia recalls "The Dutch Paedophile Emancipation Movement" which led to the world's most liberal laws on pedophilia.

Dutch law permits sex between an adult and a person as young as 12 if the younger person consents.

Can legal action be taken against a site like "Butterfly Kisses," which promotes an act barred by U.S. state laws?

A private agency called Web Police, which investigates complaints of abuse on the Internet, notes that U.S. laws do not apply to the global Internet.

"We would have an officer in the Netherlands address it according to the country's laws, morals and code of ethics," said Peter Hampton, the founder of Web Police and several related agencies. "We can't tell Holland what should or should not be on the Internet."

But not much would likely be done in the Netherlands either, Hampton told WorldNetDaily.

"Their problem is the same that the United States has," he said. "No. 1, there has to be a law enacted that addresses the Internet directly."

Then, said Hampton, you would need to find a police investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury who all have the experience to address an Internet-related case.

"The majority of the time you're not going to find any of those, and that's where you run into your stone wall," he said. "So then we have to go directly to the suspect and see if we can resolve it without the necessity of going through all that expense and trouble."

Hampton said he works regularly with the FBI, but "they've got their hands full" with thousands of complaints every day.

"We get 1,500 a day, so I can imagine what the FBI gets," he said. "They simply can't address all these issues and try to prosecute them. They don't have the manpower and they don't have the teeth in the laws. The president himself has said hands off the Internet, it's an international community."

Underestimated problem

How prevalent is pedophilia among women?

Hampton says that he gets an average of more than 200 reports related to female pedophilia on the Internet each day, including websites, message boards and other forums.

It's growing, he says of the presence of female pedophilia on the Web, though sites related to male pedophilia are increasing at about 10 times the rate.

"But I was surprised that this was even an issue," he said of female pedophilia. "It's been since about two years ago that we've found it to be quite prevalent."

Linda Halliday-Sumner, a sexual abuse consultant in Courtenay, B.C., Canada, told WND that when she first began in 1980, about 1.5 percent of her cases were women who abuse minors. Within six years that increased to 11 to 13 percent. In the last 10 years, she said, at least 33 percent of her 325 cases a year have been women.

"It is very underreported," she said of the incidences of abuse by females. "When it is reported it's often dismissed or laughed at as not being serious. Motherhood and apple pie, you know – we don't do that sort of thing."

Much of the opposition has been from women's groups.

"I have been strongly attacked and criticized because I've spoken out about female offenders," she said.

The Journal of Paedophilia devoted an entire issue to the subject of women in 1992. In the introductory article, which is posted on "Butterfly Kisses," Marjan Sax and Sjuul Deckwitz write that while little is known about it, "As we dug more deeply into our subject we discovered that erotic and sexual contacts between women and children under the age of consent do indeed occur. In speaking with female friends, once the shock of embarking on a discussion of the concept of paedophilia wore off, countless stories came out."

Studies in the 1980s by researchers David Finkelhor and Diana Russell estimated that in the United States about 14 percent of abuse cases involving boys were perpetrated by females. About 6 percent of the cases were of women who abuse girls.

While these studies give some clues, the true number of women who have sexual contact with children is probably severely underestimated, according to German psychologist Marina Knopf. In an article on "Butterfly Kisses" titled "Sexual Contacts Between Women and Children: Reflections on an Unrealizable Research Project," Knopf said that this could be because contacts by women are more of a taboo than those by men.

She writes that it "is less spoken of, more hidden, and the women do not have any groups they attend or have formed themselves as do men. ... The strength of this taboo might help explain the enormous difficulty we had in finding women to interview."

Well-known pedophile advocate Pat Califia, who has spoken at mainstream institutions such as Penn State University, writes in an article posted on the "Butterfly Kisses" site that, "It is possible that sexual activity occurs more often between mothers and children or other women than between men and children. Women have more access to kids, and there are fewer taboos surrounding women's handling young people's bodies."

Over the past ten years, book titles have included "Female Sexual Abuse of Children," published in 1993 by Guilford Press, "When She was Bad: Violent Women and the Myth of Innocence," 1997 by Penguin Putnam, Inc. and "The Last Secret: Daughters Sexually Abused by Mothers," by Safer Society Press.

"The incidence of mother-daughter sexual abuse is unknown because it is a grossly underreported crime," according to a group called Making Daughters Safe Again, which calls itself the "only organization in the world specializing in mother-daughter sexual abuse."

Among the membership, comprised of women who were abused by their mothers, less than 1 percent report that any intervention occurred. An article on the MDSA website cites reasons for that, such as "the extreme rarity of the offender seeking treatment, the victim reporting the abuse, or the authorities discovering the crime." Other reasons include the fact that "therapists, social workers, doctors, teachers, etc., know very little about this form of abuse and/or do not consider it a possibility." Also, "perpetrators overwhelmingly appear like 'normal' caring mothers."

One MDSA member says about abuse by mothers: "I think that there is such a stigma to it. People don't want to hear about it and don't want to know about it. I think it must be really hard for people to hear that someone who is supposed to be so supportive of us can betray us so badly."

A recent article by MDSA says "the conception of female children as victims of inappropriate male sexual behavior has dominated the research, and thus our understanding of child sexual abuse. However, recent research consistently reveals that females account for about one in four offenders," according to Patricia Pearson's 1997 study.

In their introduction to the Journal of Paedophilia issue about women, Sax and Deckwitz go on to say, "When we embarked on this study we were also surprised that so little consideration had been given to the positive, fruitful side of relationships between adult women and minors. In conversations with female friends, we heard so many happy stories, related with genuine pleasure, that our feeling was strengthened that presenting a positive view of relationships between women and young people was indeed justified."

Big Sisters

The "Butterfly Kisses" site includes links to branches of the Big Sisters organization and Girl Scout websites, suggesting that these groups present good opportunities for women who desire sexual relationships with girls.

Resources on the pro-pedophile site include articles under the heading of "Girl Scouts and Mentoring" with titles such as "Women Mentoring Girls," "Big Sisters," and "Lesbians are to Scouting as Sunshine is to Summer."

In the site's reader forum, a participant identified as "Jean" posted a message Sept. 16, 2001, that said "this is the neatest forum. I have always been attracted to little girls (8-10 yr olds)."

"Jean" said she is a volunteer swimming instructor and asked members of the forum for their advice on "making little girlfriends."

The following day, "Poppy" wrote back and said, "You already have a convenient access to little girls as a swimming coach. Try showing them that you care about them more than your job asks you, i.e., help them with their daily problems, get to know them and become close with the girls who admire you."

Like "Poppy," many of the voices on the "Butterfly Kisses" site insist that they engage only in consensual relationships with children. "Poppy" suggested to the swimming instructor that she could offer to give a little course in kissing to a girl who seems to be flirting with her.

"But whatever you do," she advised, "don't force them to do anything they don't like. Good luck!"

Sax and Deckwitz try to address the obvious argument that "because of the difference in ages, a relationship between a minor and an adult is necessarily characterized by too great a power imbalance. The basis of this objection is that young people cannot always foresee the consequences of their actions, and that creates an opportunity for adults to use, or abuse, them. The wishes of the child are subordinated to those of the adult."

The authors object to that concern, however, arguing that "there is a power differential in every relationship. With children, great power differences play a role in their relationships with their parents, teachers, and even sometimes with their peers. We are dissatisfied with condemnations based on power imbalances."

Asserting rights

Like male pedophile advocates, many female promoters believe that children are being oppressed by adults who have taken away their right to fully express their sexuality in any way they see fit.

"Butterfly Kisses" includes a section called "Rights Advocacy" with titles such as "Feminism, Pedophilia and Children's Rights," by Pat Califia, "A Child's Sexual Bill of Rights," "The North American Woman-Girl Love Association" and "Sexual Revolution and the Liberation of Children," by well-known feminist Kate Millett.

Unlike the male homosexual movement, says researcher Reisman, author of "Kinsey: Crimes & Consequences," "the feminist movement – and that includes the lesbian movement – has been vocal about 'It's not right to have sex with kids.'"

Nevertheless, Millett, author of the 1970 feminist tome "Sexual Politics," said in a 1980 interview reprinted in the book "The Age of Taboo," that "certainly, one of children's essential rights is to express themselves sexually, probably primarily with each other but with adults as well."

"Do you think that a tender, loving erotic relationship can exist between a boy and a man?" Millett was asked.

"Of course," she answered, "or between a female child and an older woman. Men and women have loved each other for millennia, as have people of different races. What I'm concerned about is the inequitous context within which these relationships must exist. Of course, these relationships can be non-exploitative and considering the circumstances they are probably heroic and very wonderful; but we have to admit that they can be exploitative as well – like in the prostitution of youth."

"Sexual Rights of Children," is an article published in 2000 by the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco, which was founded by associates of famed sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, a pedophile, according to Reisman's carefully documented research. The article states that there is "considerable evidence" that there is no "inherent harm in sexual expression in childhood."

While some believe they have "scientific evidence" to support that assessment, the wounded lives of members of Making Daughters Safe Again present a stark contradiction.

"Too often, I prefer to be alone, because my heavy heart is too full of past pain," said one member. "My children get either a robotic mom, a sad mom or an empty mom. There are times when I meet their emotional needs, but there are times when I need to, want to and can't. I have to heal before it is too late."

Another lamented that "as a child my body belonged to someone else and I had no boundaries. I never felt safe or whole. It almost feels like you are someone else. Almost as if you are the abuser. That you and her are one person."

Editor's note: The July issue of WND's popular monthly print magazine, Whistleblower, is a groundbreaking look at the issue of homosexuality in America, particularly focusing on its obsession with youth. Subscribe to Whistleblower at WND's online store, ShopN
WorldnetDaily

http://www.equalparenting-bc.ca/issues/images/illust_butterfly_kisses_tracksuit.jpg

http://www.scrapbookingmemories.com.au/scraproom/images/uploads/big/3026_1018butterfly%20kisses.JPG

[hunkahunka]

http://www.comments.zingerbugimages.com/glitter_graphics/butterfly_kisses_rainbow.gif

[brown velvet]

Wow!

now that is a heavy piece of artwork!!





brown.

[mrblitz]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but if no one has clarified; that's actually the Aurora Bridge (highway 99); not the Fremont Bridge. It's the neighborhood where I grew up.

Now that I think of it, I had recurring dreams of being on the bridge deck above that photo; over and over again as a child.

When we were teenagers, three friends of mine rolled a pickup at that very spot; there under the bridge!

So that's where Kurt lived for awhile? ...'small world.'

[miss_splitfoot]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but if no one has clarified; that's actually the Aurora Bridge (highway 99); not the Fremont Bridge. It's the neighborhood where I grew up.

Now that I think of it, I had recurring dreams of being on the bridge deck above that photo; over and over again as a child.

When we were teenagers, three friends of mine rolled a pickup at that very spot; there under the bridge!

So that's where Kurt lived for awhile? ...'small world.'

The bridge he "lived under" is the Young Street Bridge in Aberdeen, WA. It covers the Wishkah River, hence the album title, "The Muddy Banks of the WIshkah". He lived with his parents two blocks away.

Kurt: The bridge of Aberdeen going over to the south side of Aberdeen. I used to hang out with the bums and share Thunderbird wine with them underneath the bridge.

[miss_splitfoot]

can we have some sources for these please:

Cobain is said to have once worked as a gay prostitute to feed his heroin habit.


all this stuff is ridiculous, especially the sex magick ritual gay stuff with Burroughs. i've been a huge fan of Nirvana/Kurt Cobain since 1989 & seriously, all this stuff is making me laugh so much it's making me wee.

btw: Frances the daughter, was named Frances McKee from the Vaselines who were friends of the band.

[soulja]

Hey soulja :p

seeing as you seem to be hot on the celeb stuff, was wondering, is there a way to see if there is a theme of broken arms / legs or plaster casts on any one around age 13 / 14 / 15?

:oNo worries if the info is unobtainable, wouldn't even know where to start searching.....

brown.

i dunno where to start searching either but i'll keep it in mind.

means it's now officially added to soulja's ''things to watch out for'' list.

[soulja]

Also, sorry for my ignorance of the issue, but is there a chance that any "overt" triggering might make someone with mind-control ill? In particular, I am thinking about going to see a musical with blatant symbolism.

nah - don't worry. the symbols and themes you'll see in that musical (btw wich one?) will only trigger you/ reinforce programing themes/ cause you to switch altars if you have undergone trauma based mind control and subsequently have been programed with the theme of the musical or certain symbols that trigger/access certain parts of ''your'' programing featured in that musical. if anything, being aware of the symbolism let's you see things with different eyes (educated ones)



I am wondering if anyone here might give me any recommendations for websites regarding these issues. (Where are you getting all the text, Soulja? Thanks for all the great information.)

most quotes i used are from springmeiers two books on MK, one being the formula http://educate-yourself.org/mc/IlluminatiFormulaindex.shtml

the other is called deeper insights (i recommend you read the formula first)
http://mirrors.wordsforgood.org/educate-yourself.org/mc/deeperinsightsbook.shtml

Svali is also a good source to learn from imo (as is the whole mindconrolforums site) ---> http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/svali_speaks.htm

Brice taylor's book and the one from Cathy O'Brien are worthwhile reads too although they don't compare to the insights gained by reading springmeier.
they are much easier to understand (it took me a few times to really get my head around some chapters in Springmeier's books and i still find myself coming back to them/re-reading them)

[hunkahunka]

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/ee/0/AAAAAjIgqcUAAAAAAO4MwA.jpg
MTV rainbow t-shirt

http://www.queencollector.com/Newlive/Queenlive/Rainbow.jpg
Queen - Live- At the Rainbow

http://www.musicimport.us/images/sdimages/disk3/259720.jpg
Scorpions - Fly to the Rainbow

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/9062/vida0pm.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh122/underfireisborn/RainbowBridge-poster-small.gif

[hunkahunka]

can we have some sources for these please:
all this stuff is ridiculous, especially the sex magick ritual gay stuff with Burroughs. i've been a huge fan of Nirvana/Kurt Cobain since 1989 & seriously, all this stuff is making me laugh so much it's making me wee.
btw: Frances the daughter, was named Frances McKee from the Vaselines who were friends of the band.

this has been such a wonderful troll-free thread.
Before opining , check your facts yourself.
Cobain is known to have worked as a gay prostitute to feed his heroin addiction and this was
documented in a book by author Christopher Sandford: http://www.booksrush.co.uk/item/9780752844565.html.en

the sex magick ritual information was from Cobain's own journals

Courtney Love was married in Frances Farmer's old wedding dress,
and then named her daughter Frances, and then Cobain did
a song called 'Frances Farmer will have her revenge on Seattle'.
And we are supposed to believe that this was all because of
Frances McKee of the Vaselines?

[americana]

nah - don't worry. the symbols and themes you'll see in that musical (btw wich one?) will only trigger you/ reinforce programing themes/ cause you to switch altars if you have undergone trauma based mind control and subsequently have been programed with the theme of the musical or certain symbols that trigger/access certain parts of ''your'' programing featured in that musical. if anything, being aware of the symbolism let's you see things with different eyes (educated ones)




most quotes i used are from springmeiers two books on MK, one being the formula http://educate-yourself.org/mc/IlluminatiFormulaindex.shtml

the other is called deeper insights (i recommend you read the formula first)
http://mirrors.wordsforgood.org/educate-yourself.org/mc/deeperinsightsbook.shtml

Svali is also a good source to learn from imo (as is the whole mindconrolforums site) ---> http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/svali_speaks.htm

Brice taylor's book and the one from Cathy O'Brien are worthwhile reads too although they don't compare to the insights gained by reading springmeier.
they are much easier to understand (it took me a few times to really get my head around some chapters in Springmeier's books and i still find myself coming back to them/re-reading them)

Thanks so much! Oh, I see that my post wasn't quite clear. I went to see the musical, Wicked, with some friends a while back. I believe that one of my friends may well have some involvement in mind-control. He really wasn't himself at all, afterwards. Beforehand, he felt a bit ill, and afterwards, it was like he completely shut down.

I didn't really enjoy the musical that much, but I'm not mind-controlled (at least, not like that!) ;)

[miss_splitfoot]

this has been such a wonderful troll-free thread.
Before opining , check your facts yourself.
Cobain is known to have worked as a gay prostitute to feed his heroin addiction and this was
documented in a book by author Christopher Sandford: http://www.booksrush.co.uk/item/9780752844565.html.en

the sex magick ritual information was from Cobain's own journals

Courtney Love was married in Frances Farmer's old wedding dress,
and then named her daughter Frances, and then Cobain did
a song called 'Frances Farmer will have her revenge on Seattle'.
And we are supposed to believe that this was all because of
Frances McKee of the Vaselines?

yes, i have both books. there's nothing about him being a gay prostitute in the Sandford book, neither does Cobain mention the words "sex magick
ritual" on the page where he's scribbled out a storyboard for the HSB video.

Apparently, Cobain had wanted the American beat poet William S. Burroughs to appear as the skeletal old man on the cross. This variation describes "William and I sitting across from one another at a table" in a room with blinding sunlight pouring through the window. Then, "he gropes me from behind and falls dead on top of me...a ghost vapor comes out of his chest and groin area and enters me [sic] body."

In fact, Kurt Cobain loved them so much that, not only did he cover three of their songs, he named his daughter after singer/guitarist Frances McKee.reference (http://www.radaronline.com/radar-reviews/2008/07/the_vaselines_come_to_america_finally.php)



i am not trolling, i'm merely stating the fact that some people on this thread are clutching at anything to make it seem that Kurt Cobain was an MK victim. i also don't think that to slander a dead guy's name with myths, uncited information & armchair psychology so it fits in with a theory isn't very kosher.

sorry to rain on your parade & all that.


EDIT: oh, how bizarre. there's a thread about this over at unexplained-mysteries Was Kurt Cobain Murdered? (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=113979) & "Thunkerdrome" has posted the same messages as Hunkahunka is posting now - word-for-word - back in January!!! Even down to the false reference in Sandford's book about Cobain being a male prostitute (that isn't in the book!). How extraordinary!

[mrguitarbear]

With Frances Bean Cobain , some people claim she was named after a stripper friend of Courtney Love , some people claim she was named after Frances McKee , some people claim she was named after Frances Farmer. Take your pick.

There are two pieces of evidence which I believe suggests Cobain named his daughter after Farmer. One seems contradictory - there is anecdotal evidence that when Kurt was asked whether he had named his daughter after Farmer , he said no he hadn't but he would have done if he had thought of it. This seems to me to be a blatant untruth or an excuse as both Kurt and Courtney were fascinated by the Frances Farmer case , either Kurt or Courtney would have thought of Farmer when choosing what name to give their child IMHO.

The other evidence is the song ' Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle ' - this song sits oddly on ' In Utero ' which is all about childbirth , babies , abortion and that sort of thing.

The verse to look at is :

" In her false witness, we hope you're still with us,
To see if they float or drown.
Our favorite patient, a display of patience,
Disease-covered Puget Sound.
She'll come back as fire, to burn all the liars,
And leave a blanket of ash on the ground. "

How the hell can Frances Farmer have her revenge on Seattle if she's dead ? Well , she could if she was re-incarnated - a concept that Kurt as a Buddhist would have believed in.

' False witness ' refers to the allegations that Frances Farmer made about being tortured and raped being declared false , I think its an ironic statement. Her ' false witness ' - yeah right.

' We hope you're still with us ' - Kurt and Courtney hope Frances Farmer is still on Earth somehow to have revenge on ' they ' , whoever they are ( the doctors who tortured FF would presumably be long dead ). Notice he doesn't say ' I hope she's still with us '. This is further evidence for a reincarnated FF , ' her false witness ' is part of a past life now. The use of ' you ' is more personal , as in actually being ' with us ' i.e. present with us.

' To see if they float or drown ' - refers to witches obviously , a reference to Satanism or black magic ?

' Our favourite patient , a display of patience ' - refers to Farmer but could also refer to Frances Bean , Kurt and Courtney's ' favourite '. ' A display of patience ' means that FF has waited to be re-incarnated before coming back to Earth for her next life.

' Puget Sound ' refers ( I believe ) to the water in which the witches will be tried , full of disease from their polluted bodies.

' She'll come back as fire ' - well , its a possibility , but it makes no sense if ' we hope you're still with us ' is true. I think this is metaphorical. This does refer to Frances Bean I think , when shes grown up she'll expose the liars and destroy them ( I presume this refers to the people who insist FF wasn't tortured , but again theres a witchcraft element of ' burning ' i.e. at the stake ).

Now this song does fit right into ' In Utero ' - its a song about Kurt and Courtneys' hopes for their baby. By calling her Frances , they hope she is the reincarnation of Frances Farmer and she will come back to destroy those who deserve punishment.

Okay , its an interpretation of the lyrics but everything we are doing on this thread is an interpretation !

[mrguitarbear]

Was Kurt ever a homosexual prostitute ? He gave an interview to Spin magazine in 1992 :

Kurt: I always wanted to move to the big city. I wanted to move to Seattle, find a chicken hawk, sell my ass, and be a punk rocker, but I was too afraid. So I just stayed in Aberdeen for too long, until I was 20 years old.
SPIN: Forgive me for being uneducated, but when you said "chicken hawk"
Kurt: A chicken hawk is, like, an older gay man.
SPIN: Okay.
Kurt: Who sells children, like in Oliver Twist, you know. (Spin, December, 1992)

It sounds like he wasn't then , but that he wanted to be one.

Other comments by Kurt :

"...I've always been a really sickly, feminine person, so I thought I was gay for a while because I didn’t find any of the girls in my high school attractive at all. ...So I thought I would try to be gay for a while, but I'm just more sexually attracted to women...I mean, I'm definitely gay in spirit and probably could be bisexual. " So Kurt was attracted to men , but he found women more attractive.

In response to Courtney Love being described as a ' fag hag ' : “Oh, she is. That was all she did for about five or six years of her life - hang out in gay clubs. "

" If I wouldn’t have found Courtney, I probably would have carried on with a bisexual life-style. But I just find her totally attractive in all ways. "

Courtney Love also reported she had "...slept with about 15 women..." but she qualified this with “I'm not gay [nor bisexual because that is a farce], but I like women... I don’t think I'm bisexual just because I had sex with girls.” Ronnie Cray said something similar , he said he wasn't a ' poof ' just because he had sex with boys.

Coming from the redneck macho logging community of Aberdeen WA , maybe these hints were as much as Kurt could give that he actually was gay ? He and Krist Novoselic got arrested for spray painting ' HOMOSEXUAL SEX RULES ' on the side of a bank when he was 18 , was that just rebellion or something more ?

Source : Was Kurt Gay ? (http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/news/kurt-cobain-god-gay.htm)

[miss_splitfoot]

^

Cobain was friends with a gay student at his school, sometimes suffering bullying at the hands of homophobic students. That friendship led some to believe that he himself was gay. In one of his personal journals, Cobain wrote, “I am not gay, although I wish I were, just to piss off homophobes.”
yeah, i remember some of those quotes from the Advocate interview. i've no problem people saying he could've been gay, but it's a different thing being called a rent boy for the CIA.

http://photos-282.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v132/158/9/734748282/n734748282_164786_7925.jpg


it's also a bit naughty to accuse someone of being a troll because they oppose their opinion...when it isn't their opinion at all (it's been copied & pasted from another website). call me a troll, but at least i can think for myself :)

[mrguitarbear]

I think the crux of whether Kurt was a homosexual prostitute or not comes down to whether you think the character Mike Waters ( played by River Phoenix ) in ' My Own Private Idaho ' is really a veiled portrait of Kurt Cobain or not.

Is Scott Favor ( played by Keanu Reeves ) a veiled portrait of Krist Novoselic then ?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_X6Isw4ybb4U/R72Zv-wbvUI/AAAAAAAADJU/ylOo5FtbWf8/S220/Scott+Favor.jpghttp://www.river-phoenix.org/fiction/private-fantasy/idaho2.jpg

Keanu as Scott Favor

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/802/novo112wi.jpg

Krist Novoselic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/Inuteropromo.jpg/202px-Inuteropromo.jpghttp://www.solarnavigator.net/music/music_images/Nirvana_band_members.jpg

Nirvana

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Sadie_Sunshine/untitledidaa.jpg

My Own Private Idaho ( 1991 ).

[mrguitarbear]

( continued ) Obviously there are a lot of differences between the character Scott and Krist , for instance Scott is the son of the mayor of Portland whereas as Novoselic was the son of Croatian immigrants.

If Waters and Favor are based on Cobain and Novoselic , then Van Sant could only really have known them from the gay scene as Nirvana weren't really that famous until 1991.

' Nevermind ' was released on 24th September 1991 while ' My Private Idaho ' premiered on 27th September 1991. The film was shot between November and December 1990. ' Smells Like Teen Spirit ' had been released on 10th September 1991.

Gus Van Sant had been living in Portland Oregon since 1985 so he would have been a regular on the Portland gay scene. Courtney Love lived in Portland in 1986 and saw Nirvana play at the Satyricon Club in Portland on January 12th 1990. Apparently Courtney pursued Kurt after meeting him here , but Kurt turned down her advances - he said " I was determined to be a bachelor for a few months [...] But I knew that I liked Courtney so much right away that it was a really hard struggle to stay away from her for so many months. "

Interestingly , Krist Novoselic had married his first wife Shelli Dilley in December 1989 , was that why Kurt was off relationships ? In ' My own Private Idaho ' Scott turns his back on Mike for marriage and respectibility - is this a coincidence ?

[hunkahunka]

With Frances Bean Cobain , some people claim she was named after a stripper friend of Courtney Love , some people claim she was named after Frances McKee , some people claim she was named after Frances Farmer. Take your pick.

There are two pieces of evidence which I believe suggests Cobain named his daughter after Farmer. One seems contradictory - there is anecdotal evidence that when Kurt was asked whether he had named his daughter after Farmer , he said no he hadn't but he would have done if he had thought of it. This seems to me to be a blatant untruth or an excuse as both Kurt and Courtney were fascinated by the Frances Farmer case , either Kurt or Courtney would have thought of Farmer when choosing what name to give their child IMHO.

The other evidence is the song ' Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle ' - this song sits oddly on ' In Utero ' which is all about childbirth , babies , abortion and that sort of thing.

The verse to look at is :

" In her false witness, we hope you're still with us,
To see if they float or drown.
Our favorite patient, a display of patience,
Disease-covered Puget Sound.
She'll come back as fire, to burn all the liars,
And leave a blanket of ash on the ground. "

How the hell can Frances Farmer have her revenge on Seattle if she's dead ? Well , she could if she was re-incarnated - a concept that Kurt as a Buddhist would have believed in.

' False witness ' refers to the allegations that Frances Farmer made about being tortured and raped being declared false , I think its an ironic statement. Her ' false witness ' - yeah right.

' We hope you're still with us ' - Kurt and Courtney hope Frances Farmer is still on Earth somehow to have revenge on ' they ' , whoever they are ( the doctors who tortured FF would presumably be long dead ). Notice he doesn't say ' I hope she's still with us '. This is further evidence for a reincarnated FF , ' her false witness ' is part of a past life now. The use of ' you ' is more personal , as in actually being ' with us ' i.e. present with us.

' To see if they float or drown ' - refers to witches obviously , a reference to Satanism or black magic ?

' Our favourite patient , a display of patience ' - refers to Farmer but could also refer to Frances Bean , Kurt and Courtney's ' favourite '. ' A display of patience ' means that FF has waited to be re-incarnated before coming back to Earth for her next life.

' Puget Sound ' refers ( I believe ) to the water in which the witches will be tried , full of disease from their polluted bodies.

' She'll come back as fire ' - well , its a possibility , but it makes no sense if ' we hope you're still with us ' is true. I think this is metaphorical. This does refer to Frances Bean I think , when shes grown up she'll expose the liars and destroy them ( I presume this refers to the people who insist FF wasn't tortured , but again theres a witchcraft element of ' burning ' i.e. at the stake ).

Now this song does fit right into ' In Utero ' - its a song about Kurt and Courtneys' hopes for their baby. By calling her Frances , they hope she is the reincarnation of Frances Farmer and she will come back to destroy those who deserve punishment.

Okay , its an interpretation of the lyrics but everything we are doing on this thread is an interpretation !

Brilliant insights, MGB. You nailed it in fine detail. Excellent analysis.

[kallista]

yes, i have both books. there's nothing about him being a gay prostitute in the Sandford book, neither does Cobain mention the words "sex magick
ritual" on the page where he's scribbled out a storyboard for the HSB video.



reference (http://www.radaronline.com/radar-reviews/2008/07/the_vaselines_come_to_america_finally.php)



i am not trolling, i'm merely stating the fact that some people on this thread are clutching at anything to make it seem that Kurt Cobain was an MK victim. i also don't think that to slander a dead guy's name with myths, uncited information & armchair psychology so it fits in with a theory isn't very kosher.

sorry to rain on your parade & all that.


EDIT: oh, how bizarre. there's a thread about this over at unexplained-mysteries Was Kurt Cobain Murdered? (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=113979) & "Thunkerdrome" has posted the same messages as Hunkahunka is posting now - word-for-word - back in January!!! Even down to the false reference in Sandford's book about Cobain being a male prostitute (that isn't in the book!). How extraordinary!

Apparently, Cobain had wanted the American beat poet William S. Burroughs to appear as the skeletal old man on the cross. This variation describes "William and I sitting across from one another at a table" in a room with blinding sunlight pouring through the window. Then, "he gropes me from behind and falls dead on top of me...a ghost vapor comes out of his chest and groin area and enters me [sic] body."

That is a magical ritual!

[hunkahunka]

Was Kurt ever a homosexual prostitute ? He gave an interview to Spin magazine in 1992 :

Kurt: I always wanted to move to the big city. I wanted to move to Seattle, find a chicken hawk, sell my ass, and be a punk rocker, but I was too afraid. So I just stayed in Aberdeen for too long, until I was 20 years old.
SPIN: Forgive me for being uneducated, but when you said "chicken hawk"
Kurt: A chicken hawk is, like, an older gay man.
SPIN: Okay.
Kurt: Who sells children, like in Oliver Twist, you know. (Spin, December, 1992)

It sounds like he wasn't then , but that he wanted to be one.

Other comments by Kurt :

"...I've always been a really sickly, feminine person, so I thought I was gay for a while because I didn’t find any of the girls in my high school attractive at all. ...So I thought I would try to be gay for a while, but I'm just more sexually attracted to women...I mean, I'm definitely gay in spirit and probably could be bisexual. " So Kurt was attracted to men , but he found women more attractive.

In response to Courtney Love being described as a ' fag hag ' : “Oh, she is. That was all she did for about five or six years of her life - hang out in gay clubs. "

" If I wouldn’t have found Courtney, I probably would have carried on with a bisexual life-style. But I just find her totally attractive in all ways. "

Courtney Love also reported she had "...slept with about 15 women..." but she qualified this with “I'm not gay [nor bisexual because that is a farce], but I like women... I don’t think I'm bisexual just because I had sex with girls.” Ronnie Cray said something similar , he said he wasn't a ' poof ' just because he had sex with boys.

Coming from the redneck macho logging community of Aberdeen WA , maybe these hints were as much as Kurt could give that he actually was gay ? He and Krist Novoselic got arrested for spray painting ' HOMOSEXUAL SEX RULES ' on the side of a bank when he was 18 , was that just rebellion or something more ?

Source : Was Kurt Gay ? (http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/news/kurt-cobain-god-gay.htm)

And the point being that our theory is that he was a multiple personalitied
individual, with alters, (alter egos/separate identities) , which could explain some of his contradictory statements.

That is not to say that it requires a multiple personality disorder to contradict oneself over the course of a lifetime.
A lot of gay or bisexual people are in denial or just happen to change their minds from time to time. A youthful/teen Cobain addicted to heroin and hanging around with gays might describe himself a lot differently than
a 26 year old married father would describe himself. People change, their opinion of themselves varies , and their motives and considerations and views tend to evolve over time also. Maybe Cobain felt that his gay past was damaging his career and tried to distance himself in a couple of interviews that would be read by female fans.

imo, it is worth considering that Cobain may have had 'alter' gay programming
when one considers all the circumstantial evidence, most notably his close
connection to the whole CIA gay scene.

btw, Miss_Splitfoot, I post as Thunkerdrone on some other forums.

[mrguitarbear]

Apparently, Cobain had wanted the American beat poet William S. Burroughs to appear as the skeletal old man on the cross. This variation describes "William and I sitting across from one another at a table" in a room with blinding sunlight pouring through the window. Then, "he gropes me from behind and falls dead on top of me...a ghost vapor comes out of his chest and groin area and enters me [sic] body."

That is a magical ritual!

It sounds very much like a magical ritual with overtones of a homosexual fantasy : the older man ( Burroughs , the ' chickenhawk ' ) gropes the younger Kurt from behind ( i.e. takes him from behind ) falls dead on him ( i.e expires after ejaculation ) and in the process of f--king him transfers his lifeforce/creativity to him ( from the heart and the groin - love and lust , the centres of poetic and reproductive creativity ). The ghost vapor ' enters him ' - another sexual reference.

It seems that Kurt wanted Burroughs to symbolically f--k him , but to ejaculate his creativity into him and impregnate him with his creativity rather than his semen.

To want to put Burroughs on the cross suggests a Jesus-like veneration with S&M/bondage connotations IMO.

[hunkahunka]

'To support his drug habits, it has been alleged that Cobain “sold to the deadbeats on Heron Street, or at least engaged in a drugs-for sex traffic in order to support his habits”' (op. cit. Sandford, p. 51).

[miss_splitfoot]

'To support his drug habits, it has been alleged that Cobain “sold to the deadbeats on Heron Street, or at least engaged in a drugs-for sex traffic in order to support his habits”' (op. cit. Sandford, p. 51).

"IT WAS RUMOURED that he sold his body to deadbeats..."
(p.51) that was while he was at school, "his last year at Aberdeen High" (p.50). this is because the kids remembered his friendship with the gay lad. that's NOTHING compared to some of rumours i heard about schoolfriends.

ok, so now he was gay-programmed S&M fixated male prostitute. you're entitled to your opinion, but i'm more worried about the state of mind of the people suggesting these things more than Kurt Cobains.

[hunkahunka]

It sounds very much like a magical ritual with overtones of a homosexual fantasy : the older man ( Burroughs , the ' chickenhawk ' ) gropes the younger Kurt from behind ( i.e. takes him from behind ) falls dead on him ( i.e expires after ejaculation ) and in the process of f--king him transfers his lifeforce/creativity to him ( from the heart and the groin - love and lust , the centres of poetic and reproductive creativity ). The ghost vapor ' enters him ' - another sexual reference.

It seems that Kurt wanted Burroughs to symbolically f--k him , but to ejaculate his creativity into him and impregnate him with his creativity rather than his semen.

To want to put Burroughs on the cross suggests a Jesus-like veneration with S&M/bondage connotations IMO.

Cobain had the whole thing planned for his 'Heart Shaped Box' video:
He even wanted to use medical (x-ray?) footage of semen flowing through
the ducts of a penis in the video :




http://realitystudio.org/biography/william-s-burroughs-and-kurt-cobain-a-dossier/
The journals sketch the evolution of the video’s symbol-laden, elliptically autobiographical narrative. At first, it was to star William Burroughs, whom Cobain evidently revered as a long-lived defier of convention (overlooking the fact that Burroughs survived only because he switched from heroin to marijuana early on) and for his aleatoric compositional technique, morbid mythology, and sardonic W.C. Fieldsian cynicism. Here was the first scene, expressing Cobain’s sense of himself as repository of Burroughs’ artistic spirit: “William and I sitting across from one another at a table (black and white) lots of Blinding Sun from the windows behind us holding hands staring into each others eyes. He gropes me from behind and falls dead on top of me. Medical footage of sperm flowing through penis. A ghost vapor comes out of his chest and groin area and enters me Body.”

Burroughs wouldn’t do the video, so Cobain used a generic old man on a cross and pecked at by crows. To him, birds also symbolized old men advocating death: “Me—old man,” he writes. “Have made my conclusion. But nobody will listen anymore. Birds [are] reincarnated old men with tourrets syndrome . . . their true mission. To scream at the top of their lungs in horrified hellish rage every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth . . . screaming bloody murder all over the world in our ears but sadly we don’t speak bird.” Clearly, Cobain spoke bird.

[hunkahunka]

"IT WAS RUMOURED that he sold his body to deadbeats..."
(p.51) that was while he was at school, "his last year at Aberdeen High" (p.50). this is because the kids remembered his friendship with the gay lad. that's NOTHING compared to some of rumours i heard about schoolfriends.

ok, so now he was gay-programmed S&M fixated male prostitute. you're entitled to your opinion, but i'm more worried about the state of mind of the people suggesting these things more than Kurt Cobains.

you said there was nothing in the Sandford book about this at all.
You were wrong. Just like you were wrong about the Vaselines Frances Mckee, etc.
Like I said, before dismissing the work of others as 'ridiculous' you might want to check your facts,
and save yourself some laundry bills from 'peeing your panties in laughter'
STop acting like a troll. If you want to politely ask for sources, fine.
Don't come here and ridicule people. This thread has been nicely free of that garbage until now.

[kallista]

Burroughs was a hero of mine when I was more ignorant.
Now I can see him as nasty, degenerate sorcerer

[miss_splitfoot]

you said there was nothing in the Sandford book about this at all.
You were wrong. Like I said, before dismissing the
work of others as 'ridiculous' you might want to check your facts,
and save yourself some laundry bills from 'peeing your panties in laughter'

there is nothing in the book about him being a male prostitute for drug money. it was a schoolyard rumour, as was the one where the kids spread rumours that his girlfriend had Down's Syndrome.

i don't see what's wrong with a video about sperm, to be honest. the theme of the album was pregnancy/womby stuff.

[miss_splitfoot]

you said there was nothing in the Sandford book about this at all.
You were wrong. Just like you were wrong about the Vaselines Frances Mckee, etc.
Like I said, before dismissing the work of others as 'ridiculous' you might want to check your facts,
and save yourself some laundry bills from 'peeing your panties in laughter'

no one knows if it was Frances McKee, Frances Farmer, or Frances Marsun. I wasn't wrong. neither was you, but you're so obstinate that you're right.

[miss_splitfoot]

STop acting like a troll. If you want to politely ask for sources, fine.
Don't come here and ridicule people. This thread has been nicely free of that garbage until now.

im not ridiculing anyone. i'm putting forward an argument against what you're saying. it's some of the things that're being said in this thread that are ridiculous.

[hunkahunka]

there is nothing in the book about him being a male prostitute for drug money.

Wrong again.
It was in the book on page 51. Give it up already.
Please stop ruining this thread with your bickering.

[hunkahunka]

im not ridiculing anyone. i'm putting forward an argument against what you're saying. it's some of the things that're being said in this thread that are ridiculous.

you are brand new to this forum. Shut the fuck up, and get off this forum, troll.

[miss_splitfoot]

Wrong again.
It was in the book on page 51. Give it up already.
Please stop ruining this thread with your bickering.

you're the one who has a problem with someone saying you could - gasp! - possibly be wrong with what you're saying. there's a difference between saying that a guy was a rent boy for drug money & saying it was rumoured by a bunch of schoolfriends.
i'll leave this thread to your superior knowledge then. btw - pitiful that you're spouting the same crap about the same subject on a different board.

peace, love, empathy ;)

[miss_splitfoot]

you are brand new to this forum. Shut the fuck up, and get off this forum, troll.

oh dear. whatever happened to free speech, eh? oh, sorry, i can only say something if i agree with what you say.

i'm brand new. oh, is there a pecking order?

you really are pitiful.

[hunkahunka]

oh dear. whatever happened to free speech, eh? oh, sorry, i can only say something if i agree with what you say.

i'm brand new. oh, is there a pecking order?

you really are pitiful.

Troll, you have no right to be ignorant, wrong, lying, rude, and new here all at the same time. Fuck off.

[miss_splitfoot]

Troll, you have no right to be ignorant, wrong, lying, rude, and new here all at the same time. Fuck off.

i'm rude? i'm not the one telling someone to F *** off because i dare say that your "facts" are incorrect. how dare i be "wrong"? lol. you're something else. have i triggered some kind of aggressive alter there?

[thirdwave]

I think it was established that Kurt was heavily addicted to heroin.... much of this reason was he used to get severe back pains and it encouraged him even more to keep taking it... although that cant be blamed entirety...

He would have been constantly seduced by men and woman and have also heard that heroin can fuck with your sexual hormones.... in fact it can even make you go off sex all together in some cases... which was probably the case with Kurt... He was not naturally gay, he just experimented as some like to do...... Hell if I had Courtney Love as a girl friend I might do the same! :eek:

some people like to create a conspiracy out of anything :rolleyes:

we have some here who also think Jon Lennon was an evil Satanist... that's how some have progressed!

[hunkahunka]

some people like to create a conspiracy out of anything :rolleyes:


you come into a 400 post thread, with the sheer volume of work and research that has gone into this , and suck up to some pissy little bitch whose fifth post on the entire forum was to essentially call everyone here ridiculous and then proceed to argue with lies and ignorant innuendo.
Go roll your eyes at someone else. You can shove it up your ass.

[kallista]

Is that what this is about? Whether or not Cobain sucked cock for money? Probably. That's showbiz.

Lennon took the money and shut up like they all did, Thirdwave. Maybe it's you that hasn't progressed?

[eternal_spirit]

So why are you here to troll, look at your avatar and name (miss-splitfoot wtf) there's been enough people like that who always come onto threads to cause trouble. If you're here to debunk a topic start your own threads. And there's never enough proof no matter how much evidence for thirdwave

[hunkahunka]

So why are you here to troll, look at your avatar and name (miss-splitfoot wtf) there's been enough people like that who always come onto threads to cause trouble. If you're here to debunk a topic start your own threads. And there's never enough proof no matter how much evidence for thirdwave

thanks, ES. We gave her a chance, we were patient, answered her RUDE post thoughtfully, but when she starts outright LYING and forcing everyone to waste time REPOSTING information, proof, and links that have already been presented, its time to say "Shut the fuck up , troll."

[miss_splitfoot]

We gave her a chance, we were patient,

aww, bless you.

i wasn't here to debunk a theory. maybe cobain was killed by the CIA, but the MK stuff was way OTT. i had to say something because the information was becoming more & more sensational every day.

btw - what's wrong with the name & avatar? oh sorry, you've sussed out my psychology because the name & picture is full of "symbolism" & i'm a Satanist who eats babies. get over yourself & stop taking your problem with me out on Thirdwave. you call me rude, but you tell him to shove something up his a**

here to stay ;)




AND STOP SWEARING

[miss_splitfoot]

there's been enough people like that

people like what? generalising again are we? you lay off Thirdwave too. why are you both picking on him. your gang mentality is sickening.

[thirdwave]

you come into a 400 post thread, with the sheer volume of work and research that has gone into this , and suck up to some pissy little bitch whose fifth post on the entire forum was to essentially call everyone here ridiculous and then proceed to argue with lies and ignorant innuendo.
Go roll your eyes at someone else. You can shove it up your ass.

I appreciate the offer but I dont like putting things up my arse.

I would much rather you withdraw from speaking out of yours... because it has not produced anything of any substance.... just something ready for the pooper scooper.

now, back to the topic.

[thirdwave]

So why are you here to troll, look at your avatar and name (miss-splitfoot wtf) there's been enough people like that who always come onto threads to cause trouble. If you're here to debunk a topic start your own threads. And there's never enough proof no matter how much evidence for thirdwave

LOL

We all know about your Evidence and proof dear fellow! ... the truth is no matter how much sense one speaks, there is very little one can do to penetrate pure ignorance.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL

We all know about your Evidence and proof dear fellow! ... the truth is no matter how much sense one speaks, there is very little one can do to penetrate pure ignorance.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25341
what like on the real documented murders thread even then you tried to deny it wasnt proof. Just one example of many things your in denial of.
If you wanna debunk

Go here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31260

mind control MK ultra (documented and admitted to by USA Government)

[brown velvet]

i'm rude? i'm not the one telling someone to F *** off because i dare say that your "facts" are incorrect. how dare i be "wrong"? lol. you're something else. have i triggered some kind of aggressive alter there?

Hi there,
been reading your comments, that's Miss split foot and hunkahunka's, been enjoying the read if I am honest, learnt a new word, 'troll' can only assume it is not a compliment....lol

I had no opinions about the music, knew the 'famous' songs, nothing as dedicated as a whole album, so I am pretty much 'learning my Kurt Cobain' from this DI site.

From where I am sitting and the bits and pieces of info coming through, I can certainly easily see that a MC / DID twist is possible. I wonder how much info you have read up on MC, either of you? - I am attempting 'diplomacy' and only a learner! Unfortunately it is coming across, and quite strongly, that it is somehow an insult to be even considering KC was in anyway 'mind controlled' I find that, for anyone on this site and reading it, who has experienced the kind of MC seeming to be being discussed, as an insult to the (rather) large community of 'sufferers'. In extreme cases DID is the end result of horrendous tortures and experiments, magic/majik (and any other varients on it's 'spelling') DID is a natural reaction to unnatural 'acts'. If MC has been part of someone's life, for all their life, then many of the things I am seeing written about KC could easily refer to a MC upbringing, whether it is extreme abuse including DID is certainly a possibility. The people who have survived this sort of abuse are living and working in our social structure, do not under-estimate their apparent 'ease' in the non abusive world. Much of the non-abusive world has no recognition to it, their world is not the one the vast majority of us grew up with. They are in my opinion to be applauded for their continuing survival in an unfriendly and disbelieving world, IF KC was shaped in any way by anything like MC, his words and images mean a whole lot more when you do know, than if you have no idea. You make it sound like an insult to say about triggering an aggresive 'alter', that is the saddest part....


brown.

[emerald]

Happy to contribute to this great thread, though I cant compare to aces like soulja, hunkahunka and mrguitarbear:D
In 1989, Nirvana had their 1st gig in Europe, together with SUB POP labelmates, TAD. According to JONATHAN PONEMAN, at the end of November, after a gig in Rome, Kurt declared: "I just want to go home. I dont want to play for these people. These people are fuckin' idiots. They're stupid. They xpect me to go up there and perform like a trained animal. I dont respect them. I want to be with my girlfriend and I want to quit music. This is not what Im about". But smb else pulled the strings as we know...
Now a bit into astrology: Kurt had his moon in Cancer, Mars in Scorpio, Venus in Pisces; Courtney also has her moon in Cancer; Frances Bean's godmother is DREW BARRYMORE (birthday close to Kurt's, 22.02) has the same Cancerian moon and Venus in Pisces. Frances' godfather is queer MIKE STIPE, with whom COURTNEY had a relationship as well.
In the movie MAD LOVE, mentally troubled Casey (played by BARRYMORE) mentions Kurt's name at a moment, speaking of deep sadness and misery (if I remember well). In the house she rented after she ran away from home, she cuts - from magazines, pictures - only eyes and sticks them to the ceiling. Slaves are never lost from sight...

[thirdwave]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25341
what like on the real documented murders thread even then you tried to deny it wasnt proof. Just one example of many things your in denial of.
If you wanna debunk

Go here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31260

mind control MK ultra (documented and admitted to by USA Government)

I have no idea what your even trying to prove any more! ... you move the goal posts and I think you forget where you put them your self sometimes...

and I am not sure what all this has to do with Kurt Cobain.

[mrguitarbear]

Happy to contribute to this great thread, though I cant compare to aces like soulja, hunkahunka and mrguitarbear:D
Now a bit into astrology: Kurt had his moon in Cancer, Mars in Scorpio, Venus in Pisces


Thank you for your nice comment !

Interestingly in relation to Kurt's astrology , those are all the Water signs of the Zodiac - Cancer , Scorpio , Pisces. And Kurt was born a Pisces too ( 20th February 1967 ).

The character we are supposing to be Kurt in ' My Own Private Idaho ' is called Mike Waters and , although I haven't seen the film , I understand that Mike seems to have some sort of visions of fish ( salmon ? ) swimming upstream. Fish would suggest Pisces as well , a little clue maybe.

Kurt is often considered in relation to water - the Lake Washington house , living under the bridge and so on.

[mrguitarbear]

This is another film connected to Gus Van Sant , who directed it although he didn't write it.

The film features Matt Damon as Will Hunting , a young man with a brilliant knowledge of mathematics who is working as a janitor at a Boston college. This is interesting as this wasn't in the original concept for the film which was ' Young man in the rough-and-tumble streets of South Boston, who possesses a superior intelligence, is targeted by the FBI to become a G-Man. '
Did Van Sant introduce this concept into the film ?

An interesting coincidence if he did , because Kurt Cobain began working as a janitor for Lemons Janitorial Service in May 1985.

One might ask - did Van Sant know Cobain personally as three of his films do seem to connect to elements in the life of Kurt Cobain. The film is also dedicated to Allan Ginsberg and William S. Burroughs who both died in 1997. Another connection.

Kristen Pfaff , the bassist for Hole , also performed with a band called Janitor Joe. Pfaff had quit drugs and was planning to leave Seattle for Minneapolis to join Janitor Joe permanently , however she was found dead in the bath after a suspected heroin overdose on the very day that she was meant to leave.

[hunkahunka]

One might ask - did Van Sant know Cobain personally as three of his films do seem to connect to elements in the life of Kurt Cobain.

on the jacket insert for the Nirvana album 'Incesticide', Cobain wrote
that he performed a free live show at a gay pride benefit concert/festival in
Portland organized by Gus Van Sant, so yes, it is likely that he knew Van
Sant personally.

[amethyst]

IF KC was shaped in any way by anything like MC, his words and images mean a whole lot more when you do know, than if you have no idea. You make it sound like an insult to say about triggering an aggresive 'alter', that is the saddest part....

Very true those words.

[amethyst]

This is another film connected to Gus Van Sant , who directed it although he didn't write it.

The film features Matt Damon as Will Hunting , a young man with a brilliant knowledge of mathematics who is working as a janitor at a Boston college. This is interesting as this wasn't in the original concept for the film which was ' Young man in the rough-and-tumble streets of South Boston, who possesses a superior intelligence, is targeted by the FBI to become a G-Man. '
Did Van Sant introduce this concept into the film ?

An interesting coincidence if he did , because Kurt Cobain began working as a janitor for Lemons Janitorial Service in May 1985.

One might ask - did Van Sant know Cobain personally as three of his films do seem to connect to elements in the life of Kurt Cobain. The film is also dedicated to Allan Ginsberg and William S. Burroughs who both died in 1997. Another connection.

Kristen Pfaff , the bassist for Hole , also performed with a band called Janitor Joe. Pfaff had quit drugs and was planning to leave Seattle for Minneapolis to join Janitor Joe permanently , however she was found dead in the bath after a suspected heroin overdose on the very day that she was meant to leave.

That's a rather interesting connection between Matt Damon and Gus Van Sant because Matt goes on to (later) star in the "Bourne Indentity" movies series about a trained assassin who has been mind controled and is searching for his real "identity."

[hunkahunka]

This is another film connected to Gus Van Sant , who directed it although he didn't write it.

Allegedly Matt Damon and Ben Affleck wrote Good Will Hunting, but
I have read that some people in the literary world are skeptical
that the two of them could have come up with it on their own, based
on their backgrounds and education. Some have speculated that it was 'ghost written' for them by some one more capable. Some think William Goldman may have been the real writer, while others have speculated that Gus Van Sant may have been the true writer, and used MAtt Damon and Ben Affleck to sell it to studios as their own because he had been too widely identified as a writer/director of 'gay films', and felt his project would be misinterpreted in that way.

My take on it all, is that, knowing how the CIA operates, Gus Van Sant may not have written all of the films that he is credited with writing.

[emerald]

Anyone able to comment on WTF this is about / for? :eek:

Tis creepy

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/nirvanaheartshapedbox.jpg

and hopefully a *yay* for there being an image, thanks for all your help :)

brown.

As I said, Im not that documented on this like some ppl on this thread are, but I can say the video is full of subliminals/mind control stuff. The child up on a cross with the papal tiara on his head symbolizes the beginning of the Xtian religion scam, with its headquarters in Rome IMO. Same goes for the crucified Santa, it falls into the same category.

[hunkahunka]

Anyone able to comment on WTF this is about / for? :eek:

Tis creepy

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/nirvanaheartshapedbox.jpg

and hopefully a *yay* for there being an image, thanks for all your help :)

brown.

this looks like more 'butterfly/angel' rainbow imagery to me. MK torture subjects are told to
'go over the rainbow' or 'butterflies are free to fly, fly away, high away', or 'god is calling you to heaven now, angel, fly to him', etc., to escape the torture by fleeing into an alternate reality. imo, it is a way of forcing subjects into a 'wakeful dream state', if you will. The person is forced into using that part of the brain which is usually used for sleeping and dreaming, while still wide awake, so they perceive what happens from that point on as merely a dream/nightmare, which when concluded will be eventually completely forgotten like almost all dreams eventually are.

It looks to me like Cobain was dissatisfied with the 'beauty' of the image used on the cover of 'In Utero' in reference to this angel programming.
Assuming he was tormented with disturbing memories of torture from his childhood, he may have wanted something that more closely referenced the true ugliness of what actually transpired during his programming. In this image, the 'angel' is really made grotesque. The wings
are fake, she is fat, and she can't really fly. Worse, it appears she has been traumatized to a bloody pulp. So this could be an expose of the reality of mk trauma, in that there are no real angels created, and no one ever can really 'fly away'.
Maybe

[brown velvet]

The person is forced into using that part of the brain which is usually used for sleeping and dreaming, while still wide awake, so they perceive what happens from that point on as merely a dream/nightmare, which when concluded will be eventually completely forgotten like almost all dreams eventually are.

It looks to me like Cobain was dissatisfied with the 'beauty' of the image used on the cover of 'In Utero' in reference to this angel programming.
Assuming he was tormented with disturbing memories of torture from his childhood, he may have wanted something that more closely referenced the true ugliness of what actually transpired during his programming. In this image, the 'angel' is really made grotesque. The wings
are fake, she is fat, and she can't really fly. Worse, it appears she has been traumatized to a bloody pulp. So this could be an expose of the reality of mk trauma, in that there are no real angels created, and no one ever can really 'fly away'.
Maybe

thanks Emerald / hunkahunka :)

I am finding it difficult to cope with all the imagery in the Heart s/box video, it is quite overwhelming. I very much like the view of being forced in to 'the waking dream' state - that makes a lot of sense to me, especially if whoever is being hurt is then told it is 'reality' (which of course it is) incorrectly placed in brain (dream), incorrect words (distanced and dreaming) and feelings / emotions (not really happening) to label it which causes instant and constant confusion. I also think it maybe the forerunner to the imagery on the back of the cover, that is not a pleasant picture, at all, it reminds me of this one too...

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/reproduction.jpg

and I have had these for several years, I know, no wings, however, still lots of similarities.

http://gi250.photobucket.com/groups/gg252/5E9WX64JC1/skeletal-till-death-do-us.jpg

http://gi250.photobucket.com/groups/gg252/5E9WX64JC1/birth.jpg


brown.

[hunkahunka]

these macabre images from MK conditioning seem to dovetail with
legends of dungeons and torturers/vampirism so often.

Could it be that the super-rich have developed this subculture of slavery/torture/cannibalism after so many CENTURIES of
power?

another interesting angle to this is that anemia and hemophilia are both
genetic blood disorders linked to being especially prevalent in royal bloodlines.

Could it be linked somehow to vampirism/cannibalism?


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread150197/pg5


posted on 20-7-2006 @ 09:14 PM
PORPHYRIA AND VAMPIRES

HI, EXCUSE THE ALL-CAPS, IT'S EASIER ON MY HANDS.
I FOUND THIS SITE WHEN I WORD-SEARCHED 'PORPHYRIA', WHICH I
HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH.

IT IS ALSO CALLED 'THE VAMPIRE DISEASE'.

IT IS BELIEVED THAT THE MYTH OF VAMPIRES STARTED WITH THE
MISCONCEPTION OF PORPHYCICS: UNABLE TO GO OUT INTO SUNLIGHT
OR ONE BURNS; UNABLE TO EAT OR SMELL THE FUMES OF GARLIC,
BECAUSE THE SULPHITES IN IT CAUSES ONE TO BURN;
PALE; ANEMIC; RECEDING GUMS THAT MAKE THE EYE TEETH LOOK LIKE FANGS;
KINDA 'CRAZY-ACTIN'; VERY ATUNE TO THINGS TO THE POINT OF BEING
ALMOST LIKE SOME KIND OF MIND-READER; MYSTIC IN THEIR STRANGE MYSTERY. AS THE DISEASE PROGRESSES AND THE KIDNEYS AND LIVER SLOWLY START TO SHUT DOWN, ONE'S EYES CAN ACTUALLY LOOK YELLOW AND VERY BLOODSHOT.


MOST PORPHYRICS CAN BE TRACED BACK TO A LINEAGE OF GENES, MOSTLY FROM CERTAIN ROYAL LINEAGE (THUS THE 'COUNT' LINK), USUALLY FROM A DUTCH-MIGRATION TO SOUTH AFRICA, AND ALSO OF SLAVIK (CZECH, ROMANIAN, YUGOSLAVIAN, TRANSYLVANIAN) DESCENT.

VLAD THE IMPALER FROM BUCAREST, ROMANIA (WHERE MY GRANDMOTHER
IS FROM) WAS COUNT DRACULA. MY GRANDMOTHER HAS STORIES
OF HIM FROM HER VILLAGE. 'DRACUL' (SHE PRONOUNCES IT 'DRRRRAK-YOOL')
MEANS 'DEVIL'. 'DUTE DE DRACUL' (PRONOUNCED 'DOOT DEE DRRRAK-YOOL')
MEANS 'GO TO HELL', OR AS GRANDMA USED TO SAY: GO TO THE DEVIL.
(SHE WOULD SAY IT, "GO TOOOO DEEEE DEVIL!")

I AM LOOKING, ACTUALLY, FOR ANYONE ON THIS BOARD WHO MIGHT KNOW ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THE ACTUAL HEREDITARY ENZYME DISEASE PORHYRIA. I HAVE VARIEGATE COPROPORPHYRIA. LATELY THE ATTACKS HAVE BEEN BAD (BLISTERING SKIN, EVEN WHEN I MAKE A RUN FOR IT FROM BUILDING TO THE SHADE OF MY CAR). IT HAS NOW REACHED THE POINT WHERE I CANNOT HAVE MY SKIN EXPOSED TO THE U.V. SUNLIGHT AT ALL, WITHOUT CAUSING SEVERE BURNING AND SEIZURE-LIKE PAIN. ALSO, I AM SO ANEMIC, ALL I CRAVE IS NEAR-RAW RED-MEAT (THE BLOODIER THE BETTER), AS IT HAS THE MOST IRON CONTENT. MY DOCTOR HAS ME ON A TRIPLE DOSE OF IRON TO COMBAT THE ANEMIA, BUT 'ONCE A MONTH' (USUALLY WITH THE FULL MOON), I AM SO PALE AND WEAK I CAN HARDLY FUNCTION.

PORPHYRICS LIFE-EXPECTANCY IS ABOUT 43-63 YEARS OLD. GRANDMA DIED AT 51, FROM KIDNEY SHUTDOWN (UREMIA). OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE COLITIS (WHICH MY SISTER HAS); MISCARRIAGES (WHICH WE BOTH HAVE HAD); AND A VERY STRICT AND LIMITED DIET IN ORDER TO PREVENT PAINFUL ATTACKS.

THE PORPHYRICS ORGANS, ONCE THEY DIE, TEND TO PREVERVE WELL, SO CHANCES ARE, IF THEY WERE DUG UP (EXUMED), THEY WOULD LOOK VERY MUCH LIKE THEY WERE STILL VERY MUCH ALIVE...NOT DECOMPOSED. THIS WOULD HAVE PROBABLY ALSO LED PEOPLE TO THINK THEM 'UNDEAD'.

SAINTS WERE SUPPOSEDLY PORPHYRICS, WHICH IS WHY THEY, TOO, NEVER SEEMED TO 'DECOMPOSE'.

BECAUSE OF THIS WARPED AND HORRID LIFESTYLE, I HAVE LIMITED FRIENDSHIPS (NEXT TO NONE), AND WOULD ALSO LIKE TO NETWORK ON HERE WITH SOME SANE INTELLIGENT FOLKS, NOT GOTHIC VAMPIRE-WANNA-BEES.

I HOPE THAT DOESN'T SOUND CRUEL OR HARSH. IT IS REALLY NO FUN BEING A REAL VAMPIRE. I DON'T WEAR BLACK, DON'T WEAR CAPES, DON'T SPEAK WITH A TRANSYLVANIA ACCENT NOR SLEEP IN A COFFIN. I'M JUST A GIRL WHO USED TO LOVE THE SUN WHEN I WAS A KID AND NOW I CAN'T BE IN IT, AND I CRAVE RED MEAT AND AM PALE AND WEAK ALOT. I ALSO FEAR SOMETIMES FOR MY SANITY, AS ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS IS SCHITZOPHRENIA-LIKE SYMPTOMS, MAINLY DUE TO THE SLOW LACK OF OXYGEN DISTRIBUTION TO THE BRAIN, DUE TO THE OVERLOAD OF PORPHYRINS IN THE BLOOD STREAM.

I HOPE IT'S ALRIGHT TO USE MY REAL NAME,
PLEASE EMAIL ME AT MY EMAIL ADDRESS,

DEKALBPOET@YAHOO.COM

SINCERELY,
JULIE ST.JOHN
DEKALB, IL. U.S.A.

[brown velvet]

these macabre images from MK conditioning seem to dovetail with legends of dungeons and torturers/vampirism so often.

Could it be that the super-rich have developed this subculture of slavery/torture/cannibalism after so many CENTURIES of
power?

another interesting angle to this is that anemia and hemophilia are both
genetic blood disorders linked to being especially prevalent in royal bloodlines.

Could it be linked somehow to vampirism/cannibalism?


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread150197/pg5


PORPHYRIA AND VAMPIRES

HI, EXCUSE THE ALL-CAPS, IT'S EASIER ON MY HANDS.
I FOUND THIS SITE WHEN I WORD-SEARCHED 'PORPHYRIA', WHICH I
HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH.



What a great piece of info :) *bows to your research*:p
thanks for posting the link. Absolutely fascinating... gonna keep my head busy for a while now lolololol

very interesting about the 'prevalent in royal bloodlines'


brown.

[hunkahunka]

David Bowie - The Hearts Filthy Lesson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtpZrj2FmU

I found this video unbelievable!!!
brown.
http://www.geocities.com/lostchild_help/blog/images/bowie_video_heartsfilthylesson.jpg

thanks for the link, Brown,
that Bowie video was used at the end of the film 'Seven', which was about
ritualistic murders based on the Seven Deadly Sins.

I can imagine religion-themed ritualistic murders like this being part of
'angel'-based trauma programming.


http://www.chezlaurent.com/boots/artwork/David%20Bowie%20-%20Dancing%20on%20angels%20-%20Front.jpg

interesting note: Farrah Fawcett starred in both Logan's Run
and Charlie's Angels:
http://dragonspace.com/3d/LastDay01TM.jpg
http://www.willysantos.com/blog/uploaded_images/ACCC-721585.jpg

[hunkahunka]

What a great piece of info :) *bows to your research*:p
thanks for posting the link. Absolutely fascinating... gonna keep my head busy for a while now lolololol

very interesting about the 'prevalent in royal bloodlines'


brown.

I think that some powerful people in ancient times actually were hemophiliacs who craved animal blood, and over time these people found that they also got high on the endorphin natural opiates and adrenaline in the blood of tortured and/or traumatized animals. When they became wealthier and more powerful, acquiring servants/slavest etc., this blood drinking/animal torture was eventually extended to people. People became livestock to the super rich.

Children are extremely sensitive to pain, and create gigantic amounts of both natural pain killing opiates, and adrenaline, when tortured. Children would also be prized because they are tender, clean, and their blood also contains large amounts of growth hormone. Did the ancients know of all this? The science of endorphins and adrenaline? I doubt it

. I think that all they knew was that they got a bigger high and a bigger health boost from the blood and flesh of children than from any other type of animal or person they had ever consumed. That would be combined with the thrill of their own adrenaline surge from committing the act itself. So being ignorant of the science behind the high they were getting, they would attribute these 'blessings'
to some sinister spirit, some spirit readily 'rewarding them' for causing pain and fear.

Also, young children have incredible learning capacity, therefore their brains would be nutritious to the elite in boosting the elite's own intelligence.
This, btw, reminds me of the two mass shootings of youths at engineering schools. There were the Ecole Polytechnique shootings of engineering students in Montreal, and the recent shootings of engineering students
at Virginia Tech. Strange coincidence, that. So, someone wanted those spatially gifted brains for something, either to eat those pineal glands, those highly specialized pineal glands, or to do something else with them. Maybe some sort of esoteric research project requiring use of the highly advanced brain properties of young engineers ?
I think as science progresses, humans do come into progressively more physical danger of becoming 'product' for the wealthy.
In ancient times, you might have ended up with this class of hemophiliac blood drinkers/brain eaters who were inexplicably gaining strength and youth, developing incredible memories, youthful vigor, and even euphoria from the narcotic properties of their diet, none of it fully understood in a scientific sense. It would be attributed to 'spirits' compelling these people to inflict pain and terror and death. So you would see this 'alternate' spirituality and mythology begin to develop around the whole practise. The more vile and violent and tortuous the tormentor, the greater his reward.
Anyone remember the mythology of dracula having super human strength,
and the films where he is caught drinking some woman's blood, and when her husband tries to pull him off her neck, he picks him up with one hand and flings him into the wall? Adrenaline , baby. Not just his adrenaline, the adrenaline that he is drinking in from his horrified victim.
Or the scene where the woman screams and he says "hah ha hah, your screams are music to my ears." Why so? Because the more scared she is, the more adrenaline she'll secrete for him.
So you have this class of people that seem to be smarter, more vigorous, etc., that can go about their ruthless business with a dual purpose:

Why just kill social and political enemies when you can eat them too?
Or put it another way. Vice versa, so to speak:
If you need to eat people, why not seek out your social and political enemies
and kill two birds with one stone?

And again , you have sects of these people springing up, gathering lore and glory, and convinced that it is all part of some grand dark design, as they watch their own vitality, wealth, intelligence, accomplishments and evil dwarf that of regular people.

[krakhead]

I can imagine religion-themed ritualistic murders like this being part of
'angel'-based trauma programming.

It appears, from reading your posts, you can imagine all sorts of weird shit!

Doesn't make it true though does it?

[hunkahunka]

It appears, from reading your posts, you can imagine all sorts of weird shit!

Doesn't make it true though does it?

I thought your avatar might actually be you, until I realized that this is the
fat guy from Full Metal Jacket, isn't it? Or is it really you? Is this you
one of your good hair days?

[krakhead]

I thought your avatar might actually be you, until I realized that this is the
fat guy from Full Metal Jacket, isn't it? Or is it really you? Is this you
one of your good hair days?

LOL! GREAT comeback! :p

Private 'Pig' Pyle at your service! ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Hunkahunka I think you're right, because the purpouse of Satanic like and other ritual sacrafice the victim is tortured sometimes slowly and this creates as much fear as possible in the victim, a substance known as adrenalchrome is produced (think that's what it's called) in the blood which is what the satanist etc want's.

[krakhead]

Hunkahunka I think you're right, because the purpouse of Satanic like and other ritual sacrafice the victim is tortured sometimes slowly and this creates as much fear as possible in the victim, a substance known as adrenalchrome is produced (think that's what it's called) in the blood which is what the satanist etc want's.

You would, you smelly eater you! You're wrong in the face-box!

Anyway, even if you are right (IF, IF, IF!!;)), what's that got to do with the tragic suicide of a famous, talented rock singer?

And why would someone who wanted adrenochrome need to kill someone for it? You can buy it!

[brown velvet]

I think that some powerful people....


http://educate-yourself.org/mc/deeperinsightsbook.shtml



ADRENALCHROME (Adrenal Chromaffin)

This naturally occurring yellowish brown drug was not mentioned in the Vol. 2 book, although it was mentioned in this author’s newsletters in ’93 and May ’95 The drug is obtained by sacrificing a terrified person, perhaps by plunging the athame into them, and then taking a hypodermic needle and extracting the adrenalchrome from the base of the neck in the pineal gland. A sacrificed person only yields about 10 c.c. so the drug is not only very secret on the black market but very expensive. A Scientific American article by Carmichael and Winkler is the best thing that I have discovered on the adrenalchrome. The Max Planck Institute in Germany did research into Adrenalchrome. Dirty law-enforcement officials and others have worked to keep the existence of adrenalchrome a secret. It is not known if Adrenalchrome has ever been used for programming, but it is a popular secret drug of the elite Illuminati kingpins. For many years, they were not able to synthetically produce the drug, and had to rely on human sacrifices as their source. It is possible that in the last year or so, that some method to synthesize the drug may have been found. Chromaffin cells secrete adrenaline, noradrenaline and other substances into the bloodstream which exert a great deal of control over tissue, and organs.

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/p_adrenalchrome2.jpg

I know it is old info, still worth a mention :)



brown.

[brown velvet]

I can imagine religion-themed ritualistic murders like this being part of
'angel'-based trauma programming.



http://www.lyricstime.com/david-bowie-dead-man-walking-lyrics.html

He swivels his head
Tears his eyes from the screen
As his past puts him back
in Atlantic City
There's not even a demon
in Heaven or Hell
Is it all just human disguise
As I walk down the aisle

And I'm gone gone gone
Now I'm older than movies
Let me dance away
Now I'm wiser than dreams
Let me fly fly fly
While I'm touching tomorrow
And I know who's there
When silhouettes fall

And I'm gone
Like I'm dancing on angels
And I'm gone
through a crack in the past
Like a dead man walking
Like a dead man walking

Two young men dancing under the lamplight
Shaking their sex and their bones
And the boys that we were
An alien nation in therapy
Sliding naked and new
Like a bad tempered child
On a rain slicked street

And I'm gone gone gone
And I'm older than movies
Oh let me dance dance dance
Now I'm wiser than dreams
Let me fly fly fly
While I'm touching tomorrow
And I know who's there
When silhouettes fall
And I'm gone

And I'm gone, like I'm dancing on angels
And I'm gone,
through the crack in the past
Like a dead man walking
Like a dead man walking
Like a dead man
Like a dead man walking

And I'm gone gone gone
Let me dance dance dance
And I'm gone gone gone
Let me dance dance dance
And I'm gone, like I'm dancing on angels
And I'm gone,
through a crack in the past
Like a dead man walking
Like a dead man walking


got the 'fly fly fly' thing going on...

brown.

[krakhead]

Of course. You could always have meant a drug for which there is no evidence that it actually exists........

My bad! ;)

[brown velvet]

So you would see this 'alternate' spirituality and mythology begin to develop around the whole practise. The more vile and violent and tortuous the tormentor, the greater his reward.


So you have this class of people that seem to be smarter, more vigorous, etc., that can go about their ruthless business with a dual purpose:



And again , you have sects of these people springing up, gathering lore and glory, and convinced that it is all part of some grand dark design, as they watch their own vitality, wealth, intelligence, accomplishments and evil dwarf that of regular people.


Hi :)

darest I say.... 'food for thoughts'?

If the links are from bloodlines then the breeding is paramount, and has been honed for years. These 'stories' about the Elixir of life have to have started for some reason, I think your take, hunkahunka is more than feasible, and with the more recent (40 / 50 years) improvements on techniques, the dividing of said bloodlines, pushing the higher up scale to 'elite' and filtering down through the MC / programmed including the DID aspect. To bring in the magic/majik and combine them, along with any form of fear based trauma, witnessing it as a child, with the required 'givens' of intelligence and imagination, as you do have to have imagination, sadly rather like credit and justice, it just 'IS'. Imagine and it be fantasy and punished for 'story telling / making it up' or imagine what it is 'they' are counting on will be dismissed as 'lies'? Tis the nature of the questioning of the children that hinders so many answers, you have to have an open and inquisitive mind to match the same fascination and wonder, let alone fear, that a young child witnessing these things does. You have to understand that people are violent and evil, this is a world where the vast majority of us can't even begin to comprehend what so many have seen and been involved in, if they do, then something would have to be done.

brown.

[soulja]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Sadie_Sunshine/untitledidaa.jpg

My Own Private Idaho ( 1991 ).

this whole split screen/segments style is used alot and imo a way to symbolise different personalities/alters.

same symbolism here (also note the one eye emphasis)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/films/theInterpreter/interpreter.jpg
Kidman is segmented in three parts, so the cover is telling us straight up there more sides to her.
one side of wich Penn falls in love with. the outward personality, the front altar. but he always kinda feels theres more to her and indeed as it turns out she has some secrets about her past, about connections to certain people and about her Agenda..

also there masks hanging on her wall.. (another one of those little hints) http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/films/theInterpreter/inter0003.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/mk/Alice_PC_PackMock.jpg

[cacadores]

...A more believable theory about Cobain's death suggests he was the victim of a CIA mind control experiment. .
And the evidence of this mind-control experiment?

...An individual claiming to represent 'a private network of researchers' contacted me about this and arranged a meeting in the Temple Church on Fleet Street.Oh riiiiiiiiight! MUST BE TRUE!!!






Lord save us:rolleyes:

[soulja]

good link on MK triggers/symbolism in movies
http://www.theuniversalseduction.com/articles/mind-control-themes-and-programming-triggers-in-movies

found a rather weird pic of Lindsay Lohan..
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/new/lindsay_lohan_knife_party_neck_01.jpg

[soulja]

http://thumbs.filmstarts.de/wallpaper/Alice_Russell.jpg

http://www.deanboudreau.com/images/LTTLG-PREORDER.jpg

http://www.deanboudreau.com/images/IYE.jpg

[soulja]

in the light of what hunka wrote about cobain/angel programing i've found the next two pics interesting.
http://www.guitariste.com/articles/img/292-big-kurt-cobain.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/1226210~Kurt-Cobain-Posters.jpg

also we have seen a lot of doll head examples (in imo an MK context) in this thread..
http://gracemagazine.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/kurtcobain250.jpg

[hunkahunka]

in keeping with the 'people as livestock' theme:


http://gallery.nen.gov.uk/gallery_images/0705/0000/0062/bull_nose_mid.jpg

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/34/88/23198834.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1300/1308447776_b5ef1f6439.jpg?v=0

http://www.rudyrucker.com/blog/images/nzpignose2.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/39628097_9e88fa522f.jpg?v=0

http://offbeatink.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/nose-piercing.jpg
http://www.curtiswager.com/nose%20ring2.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/22106194_382e15f8f5.jpg?v=0

[

[hunkahunka]

http://www.piercethis2.com/UBSA71.jpg
butterfly belly button ring

the slaves were branded
http://bp1.blogger.com/_kxz2XlGaLwc/Rj2wAJKy5OI/AAAAAAAAAdQ/fkCV1G6mDSs/s320/panel-branding.jpg

just like cattle:
http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/DSN/DSN120/cattle-branding_~1768534.jpg
http://photos13.flickr.com/17897922_16c5e26d56.jpg
now the latest trend in 'body art' is branding:
http://www.modern-savage.com/branding/images/branding_04.jpg
http://www.modern-savage.com/branding/images/gav.jpg
http://www.imperialbodyart.com/branding/infinity.jpg


here is what I suspect is another use for human livestock, that is rarely
revealed:

http://brandnoise.typepad.com/brand_noise/images/xin_140902042104240200023.jpg

[hunkahunka]

also we have seen a lot of doll head examples (in imo an MK context) in this thread..
http://gracemagazine.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/kurtcobain250.jpg

this is an eerie image considering that Cobain was later decapitated by a shotgun blast

[miss_splitfoot]

he wasn't decapitated. you're thinking of Jayne Mansfield, the Satanist & Hollywood actress.

[brown velvet]

in keeping with the 'people as livestock' theme:


Hi :)


is one of your other names Subtle? lololol

what a great post :D


brown.

[miss_splitfoot]

in keeping with the 'people as livestock' theme

i'm hoping this is a stab at humour & not some theory that people are getting branded/pierced/whatever because they're "brainwashed" into behaving like livestock.

read up on this Modern Primitives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_primitive) if you don't understand what body modification is about.

[hunkahunka]

this whole split screen/segments style is used alot and imo a way to symbolise different personalities/alters.

interesting post, Soulja, this reminded me of William Burrough's obsession with the 'cut up' technique that he would use for writing, where he would cut phrases out of newspapers and put them into a bag and shake them up and toss the jumble out onto the table to see if the jumbled phrases sparked any new ideas or associations . He was also into doing collages with cut up images using the same technique.

[hunkahunka]

http://photos-282.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v132/158/9/734748282/n734748282_164786_7925.jpg

this image reminds me of parts of the film 'Last Days', when Cobain is walking around the house in that negligee , with young gay guys partying and having sex in the bed upstairs.
it also sort of reminds of the Johnny Gosch scandal photos

http://www.johnnygosch.com/images/005_dunne-draadjes1.jpg
http://www.johnnygosch.com/images/006_dunne-draadjes2.jpg

interesting related video in three parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmjFF3WEY-k&eurl=http://www.johnnygosch.com/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKFmeTedgOM&eurl=http://www.johnnygosch.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7Qsz9uBvw&eurl=http://www.johnnygosch.com/

from:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

the guy shows how the biggest gay bar in Omaha was right next to the city prison.

the name: 'The Max' (maximum security?)

Reminds me of 'Oz', the television show about the gay prison culture:

http://www.movies-too-gay.com/tv/pix/all/oz-2nd-season.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/Ozposter.jpg/225px-Ozposter.jpg

interesting video:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-34624#

[cheeb]

WOW!!!
What A Thread...
'only noticed it a couple of days ago,
but have been posting on a similar theme myself..;

Anne Nicole Smith...

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/128/annanicolesmithclownsk8.jpg

This Is Fairly Disturbing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULYGi6dnvw

Brought to Rivera's show by the father of a nine-year-old girl present for the entire shoot, the girl describes having seen Howard K. Stern give Smith something from "a white bottle with red stripes."

Howard K. Stern-Her Handler...

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7655/iranflagsw9.gif

the clown make up on Anna's face is the flag of Iran. Could it be more ritual? Hmmm. You do remember the meaning of Shock and Awe (shekinah), right?
The story moves into surreality with Britney checking into the Promises Clinic and scrawling 666 on her forehead, screaming that she is the anti-christ, and then, trying to hang herself.

This Is A Longer Less Edited Version Of The Tape:

http://www.defamer.com.au/2007/10/anna_nicole_smith_clown_video_.html

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9243/annenicolesmithbf3.jpg
The Joker..

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5735/joker460li0.jpg

Deranged Terrorist...

The tape showed Anna Nicole in a toga with clown makeup scrawled bizarrely across her face.
In the words of BJ Berstein, legal analyst, Anna had a "very child-like, haunting voice."
Stern says, "Anna, Anna listen to me."
"Riley thinks you’ve absolutely lost your mind.”
"Huh?" Anna replies.
“Riley thinks you’ve lost your mind.”
“I didn’t lose my mind.”
“She thinks you have.”
“I didn’t.”
"Is this a mushroom trip?" Stern asks.
"What do you mean?" Anna asks like a 4 year old girl.
"I'm kidding."
"What does that mean?"
"I'm kidding."
The scene then cuts to a closer shot of Anna looking like a member of the Insane Clown Posse and
Stern says, "This footage is worth money."
To which the child-like voice replies, "Why? What feetage?"
"This thing you're looking into."
"That's a camera."
"Exactly."
Analyst Bernstein says Anna is "clearly intoxicated". Was she? The autopsy shows no sign of drug abuse and no drugs in her stomach after death. This is a clear case of mind-control,

Triple Reinforcement From The Handler..!!!!

The Dark Night..!!!

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8104/drakknightposter42408qr0.jpg

Reinforcing Terrorist Attacks,
Of 2001...

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6796/wtcnorthtoweref7.jpg


Could it be that what we are witnessing in our top pop stars recently is the result of trauma-based mind-control? Have the Monarch mind-controlled slaves gone wild? Anna Nicole mysteriously dies, Britney shamelessly shaves herself bald, Astronaut Lisa Nowak sets off on a mission of doom in diapers; what is going on!?
There is a program so grim, its aspects are difficult to talk about. I am referring to Satanic Ritual Abuse. It is widespread and goes to the upper echelons of the world's rulers. Most Americans won't believe that mind control is going on in the "homeland." Well, it is. Many of the rituals and methods employed in the mind control projects are inspired by the ancient mystery schools; blood and sex rituals to the god and goddess. From ancient Babylon to Nazi Germany and on into America, trauma-based mind control has been the modus operandi of the Illuminati.

The Old Batman Had A Mentor/Handler,
Theme to it...
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1955/batmanandrobinscalingawnf1.jpg

As Well As This Villain
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2329/thepenguintr4.jpg

The Penguin.!!!
With The Mary Poppins Style Umbrella..

Are We All Being Predictave/Regressive Programmed,
By This Media Manipulation Of Events....???

"Is this a mushroom trip?"

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4856/mushroomcloudhblb1.jpg

There Is Some Similar Stuff Here

http://thefreemanperspective.blogspot.com/2007/02/httpwww2bloggercomimggllinkgifanna.html

:eek:

[hunkahunka]

great post, Cheeb, welcome to THE thread!

nice link , btw. Let this thread be a warning to all the fledgling 'actresses'
and 'starlets' out there who think they are going to get some big break in
Hollywood, & who accept the first plane ticket mailed them for Los Angeles,
and instead soon find themselves working as Las Vegas strippers, porn meat,
or worse, in some CIA dungeon undergoing 'preparation' for various projects.
Hey, starlet, if you think Hollywood is going to be an easy ride, have a close
look at this thread. Your chances of making it big are zilch, and if you ever
DO , I think the yellow brick road might involve some pretty horrifying 'rites'
of passage.

[eternal_spirit]

interesting post, Soulja, this reminded me of William Burrough's obsession with the 'cut up' technique that he would use for writing, where he would cut phrases out of newspapers and put them into a bag and shake them up and toss the jumble out onto the table to see if the jumbled phrases sparked any new ideas or associations . He was also into doing collages with cut up images using the same technique.

................

Think it was Bowie used this technique for some of his lyrics, or so he says, don't know if it's true.

Cobain's songs weren't my flavour but I feel sorry and it's so sad for the way he was messed with and it don't add up that he would kill himself unless he was given hypnotic suggestions or something.

This has probably been said before - One story says he was in some kind of rehab psychiatric place not long after that he wound up dead, that would have been the perfect place for hypnotic suggestions to have been planted.

[brown velvet]

also we have seen a lot of doll head examples (in imo an MK context) in this thread..
http://gracemagazine.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/kurtcobain250.jpg

Hi :)

thought these would be apt...?
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/worzel002.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/worzel.gif

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/ManWithTwoBrains.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/queen-of-heartsa.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/Headteacherpuppet.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/talkingheads02.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/poppyheads.jpg


brown.

[cheeb]

There Seems To Be A Few Parallels,
Betweem Kurt Cobain And Richie James Edwards,
Of The Manic Street Preachers...

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7199/manicsmansonke5.jpg
Richie With Shaved Head Before He Dissapeared..

He Reminds Me Of Charles Manson

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4248/manicsmansoncvh6.jpg

Who Also Shaved His Head When He Had Finished His "Work"

Take A Look At Ritchies Reading Material..

SMALL CRAFT WARNINGS / SUDDENLY LAST SUMMER / BABY DOLL - Tennessee Williams

GO ASK ALICE - Anonymous

THE BELL JAR - Sylvia Plath

A SEASON IN HELL - Arthur Rimbaud

JUNKIE - William Burroughs

THE MYTH OF SISYPHUS / THE OUTSIDER / THE FALL / THE PLAGUE - Albert Camus

POETRY BY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

* Philip Larkin
* Primo Levi
* William Blake
* Siegfried Sassoon

THE BOY LOOKED AT JOHNNY - Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons

MYSTERY TRAIN - Greil Marcus

AWOPBOPALOOBOP ALOPBAMBOOM: THE GOLDEN AGE OF ROCK - Nik Cohn

CROSSTOWN TRAFFIC - Charles Shaar Murray

ELVIS - THE LAST 24 HOURS / THE LIVES OF LENNON - Albert Goldman

1984 - George Orwell

LOLITA - Vladimir Nabokov

THE FIRE NEXT TIME / ANOTHER COUNTRY - James Baldwin

BORSTAL BOY - Brendan Behan

LESS THAN ZERO / AMERICAN PSYCHO - Bret Easton Ellis

LORD OF THE FLIES / THE INHERITORS - William Golding

PRICK UP YOUR EARS - John Lahr

ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST - Ken Kesey

BRAVE NEW WORLD - Aldous Huxley

DESOLATION ANGELS - Jack Kerouac

THE DICE MAN - Luke Rhinehart

INVISIBLE MAN - Ralph Ellison

THE CATCHER IN THE RYE - J. D. Salinger

BIRDY / PRIDE - William Wharton

NAOMI - Junichiro Tanizaki

NO LONGER HUMAN - Osamu Dazai

THE TRIAL / THE METAMORPHOSIS - Franz Kafka

FRISK - Dennis Cooper

NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND - Fyodor Dostoevsky

BERNICE BOBS HER HAIR - F. Scott Fitzgerald

BLACK RAIN - Masuji Ibuse

THIRST FOR LOVE - Yukio Mishima

THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY - Oscar Wilde

MIRACLE OF THE ROSE - Jean Genet

CRASH / THE ATROCITY EXHIBITION - J. G. Ballard

BLOWN AWAY - A.E. Hotchner

KNOTS - R. D. Laing

UNDER THE VOLCANO - Malcolm Lowry

THE WASTE LAND - T. S. Eliot

THE TORTURE GARDEN - Octave Mirbeau

THE RUNAWAY SOUL - Harold Brodkey

Here Is A Breif Synopsis Of His Last Months

8 April: Kurt Cobain, a favourite artist of Richey's, is found after killing himself.

22-23 April: the Manic Street Preachers play two shows in Bangkok, Thailand. The second night, Richey is given a set of knives by a fan, which he uses to cut his chest before the show. He also stops eating around this time.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4220/manicstreetpreachersmotgj4.jpg
48 On The Clock Face

July: Richey disappears for 48 hours. Shortly after he returns, following two days of drinking and self-mutilation, in an apparent suicide attempt, he is committed to Whitchurch hospital, Cardiff, then the Priory Clinic, Roehampton, for ten weeks of rehabilitation.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3455/manicsalicehl4.jpg
The Clock On The Album,
Reminded me of the White Rabbits Clock..

7 November - December: the Manic Street Preachers tour in Europe, as the support act for Suede.
Sometime during the tour, Richey buys a meat cleaver, apparently intending to chop off his fingers, so that he doesn't have to play onstage, in emulation of Steve Clark, guitarist for Def Leppard. The cleaver is taken away from Richey before he can use it on himself.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7277/manicstpreacherslifeblonp7.jpg

24 November: Nicky discovers after a show in Amsterdam, that Richey has cut himself vertically down his chest, an injury which requires 36 (by some accounts) stitches.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9259/manicstcutulpka3.jpg

1 December: Nicky finds Richey outside the group's hotel in Hamburg, Germany, repeatedly banging his head on the wall, blood streaming down his face. The European tour is ended, despite several more shows on the schedule.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5061/manicscutpc6.jpg

1 February: 7 AM (GMT): Richey checks out of the Embassy hotel, and is never seen again. It is certain that he drives to his apartment in Cardiff where he leaves some things before driving away again. By some accounts, he does not enter Wales for eight hours after leaving the hotel.

7 February: Anthony Hatherhall, a taxi driver from Newport, supposedly picks up Richey from the King's hotel in Newport, and drives him around the valleys, including Blackwood. The passenger gets off at the Severn View service station and pays the £68 fare in cash.

14 February: Richey's Vauxhall Cavalier arrives at the (Aust) Severn service station.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/138/manicangelszo2.jpg
Backward R,s

This Album Cover Photograph Was Taken At The Aust Service Station,Yards From Where They Found His Car,,,

17 February: Richey's Vauxhall Cavalier is reported abandoned at the (Aust) Severn service station.

He Has Never Been Heard Of Since

But His Story Has Got Some Very Similar Themes To
M.K.Ultra Trauma Cases..
Self Mutilation,
Anorexia,
Dissapearences,
Being In Mental Hospitals Months Before He Dissapeared,
The Same Use Of Themes On The Album Covers..
Shaving His Hair Before He Dissapeared....

Seems Familiar Eh..????

[kallista]

i'm hoping this is a stab at humour & not some theory that people are getting branded/pierced/whatever because they're "brainwashed" into behaving like livestock.

read up on this Modern Primitives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_primitive) if you don't understand what body modification is about.


You are joking right?

[brown velvet]

interesting video:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-34624#

Hi :)

wow! that was a great find.....
have you seen the missing yorks tv / de Camp piece?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7725966698433381712&hl=en


brown.

[miss_splitfoot]

You are joking right?

EXACTLY what i'm thinking about this whole thread.


have some fucking respect for richey's friends & family. no one even knows if he's dead or alive yet. think about the people & the real human lives involved in all this. they happened to be "famous", but richey still has a mother, father & sister out there who are still looking for him & the last thing they need to read is shit like this.
some of you people should be ashamed of your lack of respect.

[hunkahunka]

EXACTLY what i'm thinking about this whole thread.


have some fucking respect for richey's friends & family. no one even knows if he's dead or alive yet. think about the people & the real human lives involved in all this. they happened to be "famous", but richey still has a mother, father & sister out there who are still looking for him & the last thing they need to read is shit like this.
some of you people should be ashamed of your lack of respect.

this link , to this very thread, should be emailed straight to his family,
or would you rather have them live in ignorance about what happened
to him? they might even find him once they start piecing it all together.

everyone, please, we have to start getting this information out to everyone.
email this to webmasters all over the place.
send it to people like Ted Gunderson, Freeman, Kentroversy, Red Ice, infowars,
anyone you can find online with an interest in this stuff. this is mind blowing stuff.
we have enough information to write a book here, so at least get the thread
out to people. This should have 100,000 hits on it, not 17,000

[cheeb]

that is only a theory that maybe half a dozen people would believe. i know a few people connected to richey edwards, but i sure as hell aren't going to cause them any more upset by telling them this theory which was thought up by a minority of people with very little proof that this could be possible.

I Have The Greatest Respect For Richey James Edwards,
I Beleive He Was One Of The People That Unstigmatised,
Self Harm,Addiction And Male Anorexia,

But There Is A Reason Why People Go To These Extremes...:

Why do people harm themselves?

A person who self-harms is likely to have gone through very difficult, painful experiences as a child or young adult. At the time, they probably had no one they could confide in, so didn't receive the support and the emotional outlet they needed to deal with it. The experience might have involved physical violence, emotional abuse, or sexual abuse. They might have been neglected, separated from someone they loved, been bullied, harassed, assaulted, isolated, put under intolerable pressure, made homeless, sent into care, into hospital or to other institutions.

Experiences like these erode self-esteem. Emotions that have no outlet may be buried and blocked completely out of awareness. If a trusted adult betrays or abuses them, and there are no other witnesses, children will often blame themselves. They turn their anger inwards. By the time they become adults, self-injury can be a way of expressing their pain, punishing themselves, and keeping memories at bay.

There is often an absence of pain during the act of self-injury, rather like the absence of sensation that often occurs during abuse or trauma. The body produces natural opiates, which numb it and mask the emotions, so that little is felt or realised consciously. A badly traumatised person may end up feeling quite detached from their feelings and their body. Some may injure themselves to maintain that sense of being separate, and to convince themselves that they aren't vulnerable. Others may injure themselves in order to feel something and know that they are real and alive.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1647/manicsrichey4realvo3.jpg
Ritchie Edwards, from the rock group Manic Street Preachers. In 1993, he carved the phrase "4Real" into his arm with a Stanley knife,

If Any Self Harmers Do Read This,
I Suggest They Contact The Samaritans...


Phone us
UK: 08457 90 90 90
ROI: 1850 60 90 90
Email us
jo@samaritans.org
Write to us
Chris, P.O. Box 9090
Stirling, FK8 2SA


I Don't 100% Trust The Self Harm Support Groups....

[krakhead]

this link , to this very thread, should be emailed straight to his family,
or would you rather have them live in ignorance about what happened
to him? they might even find him once they start piecing it all together.

everyone, please, we have to start getting this information out to everyone.
email this to webmasters all over the place.
send it to people like Ted Gunderson, Freeman, Kentroversy, Red Ice, infowars,
anyone you can find online with an interest in this stuff. this is mind blowing stuff.
we have enough information to write a book here, so at least get the thread
out to people. This should have 100,000 hits on it, not 17,000

If only to prove to 100,000 people that Einstein was correct when he said Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

SO much on this thread has been pure conjecture. "Probably", "I think that", "Maybe".

How about Kurdt Cobain was a great song writer who struggled to balance his desire for success with his desire to keep his music at a more purist 'punk rock' level.

Who's heroin addiction, after initially helping him cope, became something else he just couldn't cope with anymore.

He then, sadly, decided to take his own life.

Or would that be too 'ordinary' for you? The idea that life can just be tragic enough on it's own without CIA boogeymen tormenting people with pictures of rainbows and suchlike in an attempt to acheive something that has yet to be ascertained?

And as for the Richey Edwards post Cheeb, I was actually utterly appaled by it. I know people who were close to Richey and his family and if you had ANY conception of what they have been through, you wouldn't be able to look at yourself in the mirror for posting such garbage.

[hunkahunka]

this thread will not be hijacked by trolls, consider yourselves ignored, officially.

now, back to the topic

from: http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/about-serial-child-killing-cult-thing-message-my-family


About the Serial Child Killing Cult Thing... A Message to My Family
by cbdave01 | May 20, 2008



The past two years have been very difficult for me. Events have transpired and secrets have been revealed- not only about myself but of some closest to me, in such ways that I am no longer able to pretend to be who I thought I was anymore. My eyes have been opened and although what I am about to say may seem madness to some- there is a special group out there who will grasp what I am saying. This is for them.

I now understand what caused me to have a psychotic break when I was thirteen, why I have never been able to remember my childhood, and most importantly, why, after attacking my three year old nephew at thirteen, I begged the policeman to kill me believing I was the Anti-Christ. All of my adult life- I just assumed this was all due to growing up with sadists as parents, and the fact that I dreamed over and over, night after night, year after year about children being tortured, children being raped, and children climbing out of shared graves constantly chasing me was some strange psychotic way my mind processed the rage I had repressed from my abuse. I have hidden all my life- unable to understand how I could care so much about the world around me while awake and yet, at night, all I would dream of is children being tortured to death in unspeakable ways. It was this Jekyll and Hyde condition that compelled me seek out therapy- because, although I am rational enough to realize I am not the antichrist, I’ve worried when the switch would flip and I would become what I dream- always convinced my dreams signaled some horrendous hidden desire within me, psychotic in nature.

The realization of what transpired in my childhood and the fact that these collections of nightmares are memories and not fragments of a dream personality has changed everything. Although, in a way, this has been an incredible release for me- to finally understand that the years of torturous sleep was not a reflection of hidden, psychotic, subconscious desires but memories of events that had already transpired, in another way, a situation I believed could get no worse has, unfortunately, once again surprised me. Discovering I never truly forgot my childhood but, in fact, have dreamt about it almost all my life, and things I never thought possible except in the context of my unspeakable nightmares are not dreams but are events that have actually happened, has changed everything inside me. Remembering what happened, and knowing what was done to those children- has changed everything.

For the past two years- I have been fighting what seems an overwhelmingly unwinnable situation that has accomplished little but frustrate me and worry all those who love me, not to mention alienating me and putting me into the same league as someone talking to themselves on the street corner in the minds of others. Try as I might to get an investigation into all this- nothing I do seems to make a difference, and after my last two videos, I realized I feel off course. As a result- I have had to remind myself of my intentions. There are three. The first is to get an investigation into this. The second is to help my family find release and maybe some peace from this mess and the third is to find the woman (who may have lived up the street from us when we lived on 61st street), whose daughter my family, with the help of their friends, murdered in the early 70’s and whose husband I was forced to light on fire when I was twelve after he found us in his search for his missing daughter. I am doing this to try to make whatever amends I can, and hopefully, as a result, find my own release. The responsibility I feel to all of this because of my silence is difficult to describe. Repressing this and keeping silent allowed myriads of children to be hurt, allowed countless murders to happen and their murderers to go free, allowed people to be unjustly jailed, contributed to the murder of one of my dearest friends and, most likely, my oldest sister, and who knows what else. Needless to say, all of this weighs heavy on my heart- but I can only do what I can do- and we all have limits.

Joanne, one day a couple weeks back I started thinking back on my sister Cindy, and one of our last arguments before her death came to mind. It was after dad died- she called to ask me at your bequest whether or not I had helped dad cross over. I called her a liar, knowing you and dad found my Shamanic practices distasteful, and accused her of placating me in order to manipulate bringing the two of us together, peacemaker as she was. The conversation ended poorly, with both of us yelling at each other. That night, I had to call and apologize to her after finding out you had asked the same question of someone else via email. It was the first time I realized that, for whatever reason, you- in some way- believed.

The night after remembering that argument, I had a dream. I was standing on a dock with a life buoy in my hands and you were 10 feet out, drowning in the water. I awoke from the dream seconds later, but not before I knew that, no matter how angry I am with you, I do not have it in me to let you drown, thus this video, speech, letter- whatever. My mind tells me this is a mistake, that those who believe I am crazy will now have proof of their convictions and I will lose all credibility with those I have struggled so hard to reach, but my heart and spirit knows this is the right thing to do. If there was ever a moment in your life that you knew that I was telling you something important- let it be this one.

Regardless of what he may have said to you before he died, my father loved you and still does – even more than he loves my mother, and he is desperate to help you right now- because, as it stands now, “hell” stands in your way of Heaven. Although it is true you would have never gotten involved with all of this had it not been for my father and his family- your choice to join ship and becoming a willing and eager participate is the reason you face the consequences you do. After all, it is no secret that, in the end, we always reap what we sew.

My sister Kathy believes your group was just a bunch of drunken, drugged out pedophiles who were enamored with the cult movies of the 60’s and 70’s, and did what you did because you thought it was cool. Me- I am not so sure it wasn’t more of the same that went along with that funeral home- or maybe even something deeper- but regardless of why, the result is the same. You are a devout Christian so I do not have to tell you that standing in the light of God and claiming it for your own selfish and sick desires has special consequences. Nor should I have to remind you of the whole “suffer the little children unto God” clause that states children happen to be God’s and all of the Universe’s favorites. I’m also sure I don’t have to tell you that hurting children really pisses God off. What I do need to tell you is what I have seen in my Journeys.

This is the deal Joanne, not just for you but for us all. You MUST make this right, own up to your part, and do what you can to heal this. If you don’t, not but moments after you take your last breathe- darkness waits to claim you. This darkness is the very darkness you and your posse thought you were condemning those children too. In that darkness, you will live out the consequences of your karma in the context of your own nightmares, and just so we are clear- let me explain the parameters of what I am speaking of.

You are all responsible as a group- and you will find written, God holds us responsible for everything that we know. Since you were all aware of what was happening, you are responsible for it ALL. You are responsible for everyone who has been hurt by this- every adult and every child. This includes but is in no way limited to EVERY ONE of those child’s fears, EVERY ONE of those child’s pains, EVERY tear shed, EVERY scream, EVERY moan- EVERY CHILD- however many that is and for however long this happened. Not just that, what also awaits you is every mother’s anguish, every father’s despair, and all the sadness of all those affected by the loss of love and life. Brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends- all of their pain is YOURS to experience, to savor, and although there are some of us who know what happened is so despicable that words can’t describe, it won’t even compare to what awaits some of you. In the end, you will undeniably understand what it feels like to be a victim to the darkness of your own desires, a terrifying concept considering the true depth of darkness has yet to even be realized in many of you.

Although few will understand this- you and your group will understand when I say your servant no longer serves you but now serves God. It wasn’t until months later after this particular Journey that I realized the significance of what I saw. God embracing and welcoming back his enemy- He who was most unclean- has given hope to every being in the Universe- seen and unseen, and the hope of redemption has lessened evil’s grip on the world. God’s will was never “love your enemies as your brother but wait a second while I throw mine in an eternal fire pit.” but has always been about eternal love and forgiveness. We are all being called and the gates of the New Earth stand open to any and all who are will willing to release themselves from their bonds. It will not be an easy task, but in the end, we will all eventually find ourselves standing in front of God- so what choice do we have?

One last thing, God will wait until the end of eternity for every last member of his family to return, so if you do refuse to heal this and you find yourself in that darkness- remember you only need to look within yourself and seek out God to find the way through. God and the Universe only wishes you to truly see the effects of that which you do, to grant you with Grace in order to help you set yourself free from the bonds that bind you. Although no antichrist- neither am I a saint, for if I had my way, the way I feel now- I would let all of you rot in the prison you have constructed for yourselves till the heavens fell, but the Universe only seeks forgiveness and healing- and so there you go.

At this point, I have fulfilled two of my objectives. You now know Joanne- and as a result are responsible for acting accordingly. Understand that I have sent out dad’s eulogy and your paper “Lest We Forget”, as well as lists of names of people involved and places where things happened- not only in my life but yours and dads as well, along with every piece of correspondence between us. Communications have manifested in what, at times, have been almost daily emails to everyone I can think of. I believe we are in a time of both miracles and escalating karma and that God and all of the Universe is here now. There is no real escape from this- what is done is done, and even if you don’t believe in my particular ideology, the fact still remains you should be assured that I will find that family our family hurt. No one lives in a vacuum- and paperwork or no- someone has to remember the family of which I speak. Even if this never happens however, have no doubt- you WILL eventually be meeting God, and I assure you – God- along with the whole of the Universe is unhappy with this. The same is true for you now as it was for those children then- there is no escape, and no tears, or any amount of pleading or begging will help you.

In the end you will find the definitive truth that, depending on what you do, sometimes Karma can be a real bitch.

Save yourself Joanne, before it is too late. You have the strength, now find the will. In the end- you will find no matter what you now face, confronting and healing this will, in the end, be far better than what awaits you if you don’t. No matter what happened, God’s forgiveness is eternal. Love awaits you- you only need to embrace it. I assure you this is much better than the alternative.

[miss_splitfoot]

*

[krakhead]

this thread will not be hijacked by trolls, consider yourselves ignored, officially.

now, back to the topic

from: http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/about-serial-child-killing-cult-thing-message-my-family

I guess you won't see this as I'm 'officially' ignored (good open mind there Hunka! :rolleyes:) but just in case, I have to ask, WTF has that post got to do with Kurdt Cobain? :confused:

[brown velvet]

thanks for posting the triggering photo by the way...

Hey Miss Splitfoot ((( )))

thank you for your honesty, people here will not always be aware of the images they put up, they will not have been intentionally trying to upset you.
I have an undestanding of s/h, and I am so sorry you learnt such a difficult way to cope with your anger / pain.
In the MC 'world' s/h IS 'taught' so are ED's.

brown.
x

-and please, no come backs on the reality that those images do trigger some people. There is no mention of requesting we do not post them, Miss Lightfoot is trying to make her point, not edit the images put up.

s/h s*lf harm

[cheeb]

i know a few people connected to richey edwards, but i sure as hell aren't going to cause them any more upset by telling them this theory which was thought up by a minority of people with very little proof that this could be possible.

If You Know People Connected To Richie Edwards,
Then I Am Sure You Will Already Be Aware
Of The Marc Lamaq "4REAL" Incident,
So Why Bring Up This Triggering Photo,
Your Alledged Connections Should Mean
That You Are Already Aware Of Richies Fragile State...

Ring The Number I Put Above,
It's Confidential,

And Stop Playing The Poor Me Guilt Trip....

It Don't Work On Me...!!!!

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5557/manicsmefke7.jpg

Culture sucks down words
Itemise loathing and feed yourself smiles
Organise your safe tribal war
Hurt maim kill and enslave the ghetto

Each day living out a lie
Life sold cheaply forever, ever, ever

Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness

Life lies a slow suicide
Orthodox dreams and symbolic myths
From feudal serf to spender
This wonderful world of purchase power

Just like lungs sucking on air
Survivals natural as sorrow, sorrow, sorrow

Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness

All we want from you are the kicks youve given us
All we want from you are the kicks youve given us
All we want from you are the kicks youve given us
All we want from you are the kicks youve given us

Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness

Drive away and its the same
Everywhere death row, everyones a victim
Your joys are counterfeit
This happiness corrupt political shit

Living life like a comatose
Ego loaded and swallow, swallow, swallow

Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness motorcycle emptiness
Under neon loneliness everlasting nothingness

People Who Have Contributed Constructivly To This Thread,
Will Understand The "Cut Up" Symbology Of This Single Cover,
And Maybe The Disconnection To The Nipple,
So Obvious In That Picture...!!!!

:mad:

[miss_splitfoot]

[QUOTE=cheeb;434208]If You Know People Connected To Richie Edwards,
Then I Am Sure You Will Already Be Aware
Of The Marc Lamaq "4REAL" Incident,
So Why Bring Up This Triggering Photo,
Your Alledged Connections Should Mean
That You Are Already Aware Of Richies Fragile State...

Ring The Number I Put Above,
It's Confidential,

And Stop Playing The Poor Me Guilt Trip....

It Don't Work On Me...!!!!

i have never ever played any poor me trick in my life, darling. i'm a tough little f*cker. i was stating the fact that you consider yourself to be in support of getting mind control in the rock industry out into the open to help people, but you post triggering photos & when i make a comment about it you say i'm playing poor me. i said that so that people might be a tad more sensitive when they're posting picture of that nature. i wouldn't dream of posting a "thinspiration" picture because i know that could trigger someone with an ED. you're thoughtless, that's all.

[cheeb]

[QUOTE=cheeb;434208]If You Know People Connected To Richie Edwards,
Then I Am Sure You Will Already Be Aware
Of The Marc Lamaq "4REAL" Incident,
So Why Bring Up This Triggering Photo,
Your Alledged Connections Should Mean
That You Are Already Aware Of Richies Fragile State...

Ring The Number I Put Above,
It's Confidential,

And Stop Playing The Poor Me Guilt Trip....

It Don't Work On Me...!!!!

i have never ever played any poor me trick in my life, darling. i'm a tough little f*cker. i was stating the fact that you consider yourself to be in support of getting mind control in the rock industry out into the open to help people, but you post triggering photos & when i make a comment about it you say i'm playing poor me. i said that so that people might be a tad more sensitive when they're posting picture of that nature. i wouldn't dream of posting a "thinspiration" picture because i know that could trigger someone with an ED. you're thoughtless, that's all.

Poor Me in action:
i dont need to ring the Samaratians. i've been seeing a psychiatrist since i was 18 & have spent time in psychiatric hospital. i'm on heavy meds & i receive CBT & regular sessions with my psychiatrist. fuck you, i work hard every day to try to maintain some reasonable quality of life which you take for granted.

I Noticed That Your Other Threads,
Were Pointing In A Horrible Direction..

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31338

And Now You Are Trying To Censure,
Legitimate Debate.....

Let's Try Some Pretty Pictures On You Then....

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2789/mylittleponythemovie198bi0.jpg

Manipulation....

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2182/mylittlebeatrice2sm9.jpg

Princess ....

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/999/mylittledisneymarypoppixy2.jpg

Crucifiction Symbology...

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5093/dysmassf7.jpg

According to tradition, Dismas, on Christ's right, repents and eventually joins Christ in Heaven, while Gestas blasphemes and ends up in Hell. At the moment of Christ's passing, he writhes in agony and his feet jerk, pulling the lowest crossbar askew. On the traditional Russian Orthodox cross, the lowest crossbar is at an angle, with the right side up (Dismas went to Heaven) and the left side down (Gestas went to Hell)

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7719/mylittlenanny911dm5.jpg

Joachim And Boaz Masonary...

:eek:

[hunkahunka]

http://www.konformist.com/flicks/eyeswideshut.htm

The Konformist


An Interpretation of Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut

Adam Gorightly

In Stanley Kubrick's final film, Eyes Wide Shut, are numerous veiled allusions to the CIA's MK-ULTRA mind control experiments and Monarch sex slave programming, subjects which readers of The Konformist should be well familiar. According to believed victims of Monarch abuse, their ranks number literally in thousands, and it has been alleged that these very same victims have been used extensively as sex slaves, drug mules and assassins. According to varied sources, Monarch programming begins immediately at birth, and is carried out through the lives of its victims, as they are used by intelligence agencies and secret societies like mere pawns on a gameboard, until--in many instances--they have outlived their usefulness, and are terminally "discarded". While this author does not buy lock, stock and barrel all of the sordid tales associated with Monarch abuse, I nonetheless suspect that it does actually exist in many cases, regardless of all the disinformation that exists in mind control lore obscuring the true reality of the situation. Like all weighty subjects--conspiratorial or otherwise--one must separate the wheat from chaff, which is not an easy proposition, to say the least. According to Per Sewen of Illuminati News, he viewed Eyes Wide Shut with a woman who had been "subjected to Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) by the Illuminati and she found it very, very accurate. None of us had any idea what the movie was about, so it was a shock for both of us, especially as these kinds of movies can be very triggering for victims of SRA. And it was. This girl didn't feel well afterwards..."

Associating the "Bavarian Illuminati" --as it was originally identified--with the ominous spectre of mind control is another sticky area, as the presumed current day existence of this secret order is not an easy thing to document, although fringe Christians and right wing extremists would have us believe that The Illuminati has been behind nearly every crucial development in the history of mankind over past few hundred years; from the French and American Revolutions to the forthcoming New World Order/One World Government takeover, not to mention the Kennedy Assassination and water fluoridation. In response, I would not totally dispute this proposition, nor do I wholeheartedly endorse it, preferring instead to straddle the fence between shadow and light, at the crossroads where facts and fancy meet. It is at this meeting point where we are briefly allowed a glimpse of the truth, while at the same time the edges of the picture blur, leaving us once again in a quandary. (Or a Philip K. Dick novel...)

According to certain legends, The Illuminati was purged in 1785 by the Bavarian Government on the grounds that it had attempted to overthrow the ruling class of Europe. Other legends suggest that The Illuminati were merely driven underground at this juncture, all the while continuing their multifarious activities under a maze of guises--including such current incarnations as the Bilderbergers, The United Nations and the Council of Foreign Relations--and exist unto this day as the Ultimate Octopus actually pulling the levers behind the scenes of world events, albeit hidden behind a cloak of subterfuge and secrecy. Other researchers contend that the Illuminati is simply a subdivision of Freemasonry, this due to the fact that the original Order of the Illuminati was formed within Masonic Lodges in Germany, by one Adam Weishaupt in 1776. According to noted Guerilla Ontologist, Robert Anton Wilson, who has spent many years attempting to unravel this mystery: "Since Masonry itself is a secret society, the Illuminati was a secret society within a secret society, a mystery inside a mystery, so to say." Arcane history lesson aside, I will henceforth use the term "Illuminati" rather liberally throughout this tract, as an easy catchall which captures under its umbrella a wide-ranging hierarchy of hidden powers; a combination of intelligence agencies and secret societies creating an Orwellian nightmare under the guise of a New World Utopia. Bear in mind that the dreaded Illuminati are never once so-named in Eyes Wide Shut. Since this is "an interpretation", I have freely chosen to exercise my poetic license, using "Illuminati" as a simple literary device, although nothing is ever quite as simple as we would like it to be. Once again, we're speaking here of the shadow realms, like those hinted at in Eyes Wide Shut, where nothing is ever for certain, nor can anything be taken for granted.

Early on in Eyes Wide Shut --while at a lavish party hosted by a rich bigwig named Ziegler (played by Sydney Pollack)--star Tom Cruise's character, Dr. Bill, is seduced by two beautiful "models" who take him by either arm, leading him toward an apparent menage a trois. When Dr. Bill asks where exactly they're taking him, the two lovelies reply: "Where the rainbow ends." When taken into context with what transpires later on in Eyes Wide Shut, this snatch of dialog appears to be an allusion to Monarch programming, as The Wizard of Oz has been long acknowledged by Monarch insiders as a common programming matrix, which uses Wizard of Oz themes and imagery as a tool to program minds. (It has been rumored that Judy Garland herself was the subject of just this sort of Monarch-styled mind control.) Later, Dr. Bill rents a cloak and mask from "Rainbow Costumes", which just happens to be located above another shop called "Under The Rainbow". In the first scene at the costume shop, the owner catches his underage daughter in a state of undress with two apparent drag queens, and understandably becomes quite upset. In a later scene, the shop owner does an about-face and appears not only to be pimping out his nubile daughter to these very same drag queens, but tries to interest Dr. Bill in her pert young bod, as well. This is all very telling, as most Wizard of Oz programming I've heard about allegedly deals with the programming of boys and girl--at a very early age--in their roles as Monarch slaves, through sexual molestation and other related trauma such as SRA, as part of pact between the parents of the abused children and their Monarch "handlers". (In many instances--it has been alleged--the parent will also perform the role of "handler". The "handler, in essence, is the "programmer", as well as a sort of go-between with the higher ups in the Monarch organization.) Whatever the case, something drastically "transformed" the costume shop owner's way of thinking, between the first and the second scenes, in a space of less than 24 hours. The inference here is that the Illuminati-styled cult that Dr. Bill stumbles upon is somehow responsible for this "trance-formation" of father to pimp and daughter to prostitute. This is part of the symbolism of Monarch, one of transformation, of caterpillar into butterfly; free-will into mental slavery. The term Monarch is deceptive in this sense, due to its identification with the Monarch butterfly, a creature of transformational beauty. This appears to be part of the deception of this programming; to delude its victims into believing they've been transformed into something magical, and full of wonder. Follow the yellow brick road. Although the "trance-formation" of the shop owner's daughter seems unrelated to later events that occur in the film, somehow these two seemingly anecdotal characters--the shop owner and daughter--have been affected by Dr. Bill's Illuminati-sex-ritual experience. The implication here is that anyone who comes within the span of Dr. Bill is, by association, caught up in a similar web of intrigue, often resulting in dire consequences.

Another MK-ULTRA/Monarch allusion is the reference to the "models" who seduce Dr. Bill at Ziegler's party, which I associate with what is known in the annals of MK-ULTRA as "Presidential models". "Presidential models" were/are allegedly used by big time entertainers and politicians as sexual playthings; mind controlled puppets programmed to perform assorted perverse acts at the bidding of their manipulative "handlers". Supposedly Marilyn Monroe was the first Monarch sex slave who achieved "celebrity" status. For those unfamiliar with the term "Presidential model", I'll refer them to The Control of Candy Jones by Donald Bain and Long John Nebel. As the story goes, Long John Nebel--a New York radio personality in the 50's-70's--discovered via hypnosis that his wife, Candy Jones, was a victim of just this sort of mind control project, one of the many MK-ULTRA mind slaves, programmed by CIA "spychiatrists" and used by high mucky muck dignitaries to perform their perverse sexual whims, among other assorted duties such as being used as drug mules and message couriers for this vast network of morally deficient power brokers. More has come to light in this regard in recent years by way of similar allegations disbursed widely across the Internet, as well as such highly controversial books as Trance Formation In America by Mark Phillips and Kathy O'Brien, wherein Ms. O'Brien relates her own troubling tales of MK-ULTRA and Monarch abuse. Once again, the tricky part is trying to untangle this web of fact vs. fiction, for a great measure of the Monarch mythos is the obvious result of contaminated stories, planted as a means of discrediting the truth, or simply due to pure delusion on the part of the believed victims For example: the current trend of shape-shifting Reptilian extraterrestrials who have entered into the mind control lexicon of late, such as one purported Monarch victim has described ex-President George Bush, among a group of other world leaders, who double as alien lizards and smack-shooting Satanists. As the late Jim Keith noted in his final book, Mass Control: "By injecting outlandish details into these stories, by linking intelligence agency mind control with extraterrestrial aliens and such, a pallor of doubt is cast upon real cases of abuse. This is the activity of 'scrambling' that Katherine Sullivan and others talk about. It is also true that traumatic abuse and conditioning confuses and disorients the victim, causing cross-referencing of mental information, and potentially adding to the nightmarish quality of many reports of this sort..."

Before the two "models" are able to lead Dr. Bill on a journey to "Where the rainbow ends", he is called to the aid of his host, Mr. Ziegler, who is upstairs, trying to revive a naked beauty O.D.-ing in his bathroom. Dr. Bill helps Ziegler revive the sultry junkie from her self-induced speedball funk. As fickle fate would have it, this naked beauty later resurfaces in the film as Dr. Bill's savoir, and is--in my estimation--another of the many Monarch sex slaves who appear throughout the story. From there the film progresses into the previously alluded meeting of a secret order akin to the Illuminati, of which Dr. Bill inadvertently gains knowledge of, and sneaks into, undercover of mask and cloak--as all the other participants are likewise bedecked--in what he soon realizes is some sort Satanic/Freemasonic sex magick rite featuring a whole host of naked hotties engaged in steamy sex scenes right out of an Aleister Crowley freak-out. When it's discovered by this Illuminati-like group that they have a spy in their fold in the form of Dr. Bill, Cruise's character is taken before the High Priest and his mask ceremoniously removed. Just when it looks like curtains for Dr. Bill, a well-proportioned lady--adorned only in mask and high-heeled shoes--steps before the assembly and offers herself up in sacrifice in exchange for Dr. Bill's life. As it turns out, this is the same woman, Mandy, that Dr. Bill rescued earlier from overdose. (Drug addiction is a common modus operandi in the control of Monarch sex slaves.) Long story short, Mandy is apparently sacrificed, although the next day newspaper reports characterize her passing as an apparent O.D. The deeper meaning here is that all Monarch sex slaves are expendable if they cross the line, and many of these victims reportedly have been "discarded" in just such a manner after they become a certain age and are no longer desirable as prostitute/sex slaves, or if they in someway break free of their programming and are considered a "risk".

During his dark night of the soul, Dr. Bill travels through the seamy underworld of his disturbed psyche, searching for sexual release, haunted by some insatiable hunger driving him toward unknown ends, along the way encountering a woman he hardly knows, who swears she's madly in love with him. Add to this collection an HIV positive prostitute, as well as the daughter of the aforementioned costume shop owner--who's apparently being pimped out by papa--and what we have is a trinity of lost souls, caught up in the grinding wheels of a powerful machine that eats people up, then spits them out in tiny, fragmented pieces. Monarch programming would explain the actions of all three: the irrational love of the woman Dr. Bill hardly knows is characteristic of a mind controlled slave programmed to love someone without truly understanding the reasons why; likewise the prostituted daughter, a common thread of Monarch programming where parents sell their children into sexual bondage and generational molestation as part of a deal made with the "Illuminati". And lastly, the common prostitute, there to do the bidding of the men who manipulate her by way of either money, drugs or violence. All of these woman could easily be Monarch victims, and even if they aren't, each is a prisoner of a system of control prevalent in our society; a system which exists on many levels, and in all strata of society, both seen and unseen. Eyes Wide Shut is a glimpse into these dark, shadow realms.

Many people unfamiliar with the subtleties of mind control will be utterly perplexed with the allegorical symbolism in Eyes Wide Shut. The characters, for the most part, appear either as detached spectators (i.e. hypnotized subjects) or obsessed sex fiends forever in search of a carnal fix. Unlike other Kubrick films--where the characters, in most cases, are more well-developed, complex characterizations--those in Eyes Wide Shut seem mere cardboard cutouts, which I think is the desired effect that Kubrick was striving for. Victims of mind control are just these sorts of automatons, stumbling through life blind to the true significance of their actions, lost in the fog of their work-a-day world, mere stringed puppets who believe they control their own destinies. The reason there appears to be no true depth to the characters in Eyes Wide Shut is that their inner depth has been buried beneath layers of mind control. What I believe Kubrick was hinting at, in Eyes Wide Shut, is that we are all mind controlled in one sense or another, sleep walking through our lives with "eyes wide shut"; "Manchurian Candidates" who kill without understanding the true motivations behind their acts. Even Nichole Kidman's character, Alice, who appears to be complicated, and seemingly multifaceted--a lady of many moods--is in reality a simple caricature who wears many involuntary masks, shedding one for no apparent rhyme or reason, and then donning another for equally vague motivations, unknown even to herself. Each mask is merely a new and different role; each mask an alter ego, with no true relation to the core personality. Ala Gurdjieff, she is a mere meat machine, sleep-walking through her life.

The choice of Cruise and Kidman in these roles is, to say the least, curious. Their emotional depth as actors--throughout their respective careers--has always appeared lacking, in my opinion. I sincerely doubt that either of them were actually perceptive enough to grasp what Kubrick was getting at with this film, which is perhaps just the sort of emotional content--or lack thereof--that the director was looking for from his characters. Eyes wide shut. This emotional complacency, for want of a better term, seems to go hand in hand with the duos involvement in Scientology, in whose members I have always perceived a certain lack of self-awareness. Call it brainwashing, or whatever you wish, this is simply on visceral observation on my part, and should not be construed as a total condemnation of Scientology. In all fairness, the Church of Scientology has long been outspoken about the abuses of MK-ULTRA, as documented often in the pages of their magazine Freedom, not to mention L. Ron Hubbard himself, who during his later years was a quite vocal critic of the CIA, and their involvement in MK-ULTRA shenanigans.

For those unfamiliar with the subtle spectre of secret societies and their peculiar practices, there will be obvious confusion as to why Dr. Bill immediately becomes a marked man just because he happened upon some seemingly harmless kinky scene with a bunch of guys and gals wearing masks, chanting meaningless mumbo-jumbo and humping one another like a pack of dogs in heat; a provocative spectacle, indeed, but certainly not enough to mark a man for death, one would presume. Well, the deeper implication here is that Dr. Bill has become not only an unwitting witness to a sex orgy of Hell Fire Club-like proportions, but more importantly, a witness to Monarch sex programming, and ostensibly a potential threat to National Security if he were to reveal these dire, dreaded secrets, that even he himself doesn't quite know what to make of.

After his close call with these evil Illuminati-type characters, the plot thickens ever more as Dr. Bill is pursued by his own inner sexual demons--through one sordid scene after another--finally discovering that his wife, Alice, has had a "dream" where she was a participant in a similar Illuminati-styled sex orgy. These memories come to Alice during a "dream", which in reality appears to be a repressed memory; a "dream" featuring a "Naval Officer" with a penetrating stare, that Alice once saw while on vacation years earlier; a "Naval Officer" who seemingly hypnotized her for a brief instant, as they passed each other in a hotel lobby one day, and since then she had been haunted by the memory of his penetrating stare, so much so that she can't get it out of her mind. Anyway, it is this "Naval Officer" who enters Alice's dream like some sort of MK-Incubus, and--after having his way with her--initiates Alice into this aforementioned Illuminati-type sex orgy-nightmare, where she gives herself up to all takers, albeit within a supposed "dream-state". Here, once again, the student of Monarch lore must exercise their poetic license, connecting the dots and placing into context this veiled allusion to the mysterious "Naval Officer" who "possessed" Alice's thoughts--in both the sleeping and waking worlds--and from there draw a parallel between the "Naval Officer" to Naval Intelligence, a branch of the Armed Forces that has long been an active participant in MK-ULTRA operations. The Naval Officer in this instance is merely symbolic of a larger hierarchy of mass mind control. On another note, a branch of Scientology--known as "Sea-Orgs"--uses naval-type uniforms in their organization, which is another chilling parallel when taken into context with Cruise and Kidman's involvement in the church. Perhaps I'm way off course here, but I feel this "coincidence" bears mentioning.

At the end of Eyes Wide Shut --as the credits rolled by--my central thought was: "Who the hell wrote this?" I don't recall the author's name now, but the credits said the screenplay was based on a book called Trauma-ville, which I indeed found to be a troubling title, as the main tool used in MK-ULTRA/Monarch mind control is what is known as "trauma based programming". According to alleged victims of this type of abuse, various types of trauma--both physical and psychological--are used to create disassociated states known as "alters", or multiple personalities. Alters are a way of splitting off the victim from their core personality, and as a means of self-defense the victims themselves use to escape from the induced trauma, by adopting another personality, or "alter"-ego who is completely unaware of the trauma experienced by the core personality. It is a psychological means of putting on a mask to hide from the awful truth of this type of abuse, and at the same time a calculated result of "trauma based programming". This explains the significance of the masks that are used in the film during the big sex orgy scene, as the Monarch victims have switched to their sex slave personalities, adopting one of their many programmed "alters". Through "trauma based programming" a whole host of alters can be purportedly created and induced; alters unknown to the core personality, such as the aforementioned sex slave personality, or "Manchurian Candidate"-type assassins like a Sirhan Sirhan, who commit murder while in an "alter"-ed state of mind, and then afterwards possess no memory of the actual event which has transpired.

Likewise, Eyes Wide Shut is a curious title for this film, for what it suggests is that information is being processed, while simultaneously the conscious mind is deep asleep, totally unaware, subliminally filing this information into the subconscious where it can be used later by the "handlers" of these mind controlled victims. This is similar to what Conspiratologist Michael Anthony Hoffman II calls the "Revelation of the Method" and "The Making Manifest Of All That Is Hidden", which is the subtle processing of humankind using these insidious tools of trance-formation, whether done individually or on a wide-scale level through television, mass media, and the movies. It is for this reason--some have hinted--that Kubrick met his fate just prior to the completion of Eyes Wide Shut: for ostensibly spilling the beans of what goes on behind the scenes in regards to secret societies and intelligence agencies who use mind control to program the masses. In this context, Kubrick may have been playing a part in ushering in the New World Order of The Illuminati, but to his own misfortune revealed "too much, too soon", thus a possible reason for his sudden passing. In Hoffman's Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare, he states that "...the Revelation of the Method has as its chief component, a clown-like, grinning mockery of the victim(s) as a show of power and macabre arrogance. When this is performed in a veiled manner accompanied by certain occult sign and symbolical words and elicits no meaningful response of opposition or resistance from the target(s), it is one of the most efficacious techniques of psychological warfare and mind-rape..."

One of the most memorable scenes from Eyes Wide Shut is when Cruise and Kidman are embracing in front of a mirror, a prelude to sex. According to Monarch researchers, Cisco Wheeler and Fritz Springmeier: "...in programming Monarch slaves, mirrors are used a great deal. Within the Monarch slave's mind, countless mirror images are made. The slave sees thousands of mirrors everywhere in their mind. Because Marilyn (Monroe) was so stripped of any personal identity, she decorated her house as her mind looked on the inside--full of mirrors. Although other Monarchs may have some desires to decorate with mirrors, Marilyn is the most extreme case I know of filling one's house full of mirrors..."

In this mirror scene--as Dr. Bill and Alice are engaged in an erotic embrace--Alice twice gazes into the mirror, and her reflection could be interpreted as an expression of either guilt or confusion. In Monarch programming, mirrors have been reportedly employed as a means of triggering alters and causing disassociation, which is my interpretation of this scene: Alice is engaged in what is known in Monarch programming as "switching." The supposition of Alice as mind control victim explains much of what unfolds throughout the course of the film, as her character is one possessing a great many contradictions, and inexplicable moods. At Ziegler's party--while dancing with a rich foreign aristocrat--Alice adopts the persona of an intoxicated, flighty airhead. At other times throughout the film she is smart and sophisticated, then alternately cold and cruel; at other times a caring mother, and a devoted wife. After a few hits off a joint, Alice goes on a tirade where she's becomes both jealous and judgmental of her husband, initiating a heated argument. It is telling that after a toke or two of the killer weed, Alice's mood shifts so precipitously, as drugs are another well-established tool used in Monarch programming for triggering "alters". What I'm suggesting here is that Alice is just that, a victim of Monarch programming. When--toward the end of the film--Dr. Bill's missing mask is discovered upon a pillow next to his sleeping wife, a message has been delivered, clear and simple, that the same Illuminati mind controllers hounding Dr. Bill, have all along had access to his wife, even while she sleeps, deep in the shadowy recesses of her unconscious mind. Whether their eyes are wide open or shut, there can be no escape.


The film Eyes Wide Shut contains references to the rainbow and 'end of the Rainbow' , which are references to the Wizard of Oz and Kansas.

BTK operated in Kansas and used masks that are exactly like the ones
used in Eyes Wide Shut.

Here is some strange trivia:

- The star of Wizard of Oz , Judy Garland, died of an overdose of seconal 1969




Seconal

Recreational use

Secobarbital began to be widely abused in the 1960s and 1970s, although with the advent of benzodiazepines, they have become less commonly used.
Secobarbital has acquired many nicknames, the most common being "reds" (it was originally packaged in red capsules). Another common nickname is "seccies". A less common nickname is "dolls"; this was partly responsible for the title of Jacqueline Susann's novel Valley of the Dolls, whose main characters use secobarbital and other such drugs.

Another popular brand of barbiturate pill Tuinal contained a combination of secobarbital and amobarbital but is now rarely prescribed due to problems with abuse and overdose.




February 1967, Garland was signed to appear as "Helen Lawson" in Valley of the Dolls for 20th Century Fox. The character of "Neely O'Hara" in the book by Jacqueline Susann, and subsequent movie, was rumored to have been based on Garland, though the role in the film was played by Patty Duke. During the filming, Garland missed rehearsals and was fired the next month. She was replaced by Susan Hayward. She did record one song for the film, "I'll Plant My Own Tree," which has never been officially released, although it is available on several bootlegs. There is also surviving footage of her wardrobe tests. Barbara Parkins, one of the film's stars, commented in the 2006 DVD of Valley of the Dolls that she believed Garland was frightened by the thought of actually being the aging star she was supposed to play, and that she "freaked" when she realized the similarities between the storyline and her own life.


Cause of Death of Judy Garland
Judy Garland, of "The Wizard of Oz" fame, was found dead in her bathroom by her husband Mickey Deans on June 22, 1969. The stated exact cause of death by coroner Gavin Thursdon was accidental overdose of barbiturates; her blood contained the equivalent of 10 1.5-grain Seconal capsules



http://whale.to/b/sp/springmeier.html#MORE%20PROGRAMMING%20DRUGS%20(the se%20were%20not%20listed%20in%20the%20Vol.2%20Form ula%20book)
Seconal, aka Seconal Sodium or Secobarbital Sodium--(a popular programming drug to stabilize programming, to set in deep programming into the base of the mind such as dates and codes, and to block out memory of missions by slaves, see various paragraphs below for more explanations. Used in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 mg. increments. A tubal pregnancy/birth can be hid in a woman by 300-400 mg., while surgery on an adult man may require 500 mg.)


-Bernie Taupin wrote two of Elton John's biggest hits , one was about Judy Garland (Goodbye Yellow Brick Road) and another about Marilyn Monroe (Candle in the Wind/ famous line "Goodbye Norma Jean")

http://www.trojanhorseantiques.com/MarilynMillionaireBarbie.jpg

Marilyn Monroe died of an overdose of seconal in 1962.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/22/48hours/main1534542.shtml

Interview with Dr. Hyman Engelberg, Marilyn Monroe's physician.

Investigator: There were apparently quite a volume of pills that were discovered at her death, at her bedside….

Engleberg: Yes.

Investigator: Do you recall looking at a list of those pills? And were they all prescribed by you?

Engleberg: No. Only one had be prescribed by me. I had prescribed Nembutal to help her sleep. But as I recall, to the best of my ability, I was surprised to see at the side of her bed a large number of other sleeping pills, which looked like Seconal, which she had apparently purchased on a recent trip to Mexico. It’s my understanding that in Mexico in those days you could walk into any pharmacy and buy, you know, any tranquilizers or sleeping pills you wanted. There were certainly lots of other sleeping pills I had not prescribed….

http://img1.picturewizard.com/1324007/0/Doll222.jpg
-Dennis Rader, kansas serial killer, had a doll collection as part of his hidden stash of posessions. He dressed himself in what he called his doll costume (plastic mask and wig) and took bondage photographs of himself dressed in this costume.



-He planned to bury Dee Davis in the plastic mask, but ran out of time and dumped her body and the mask under a bridge. He also sent the media a clue , which was a Barbie doll hung from a pipe, stashed into a a box of cereal (cerial killer)

-Robert Berdella , of Kansas, owned several occult ritual masks, and attempted to use trauma programming, drugging, and other mind control techniques, plus removal of the sight and the vocal chords, to turn his victims into sex slave toys (silent, sightless dolls).

-The movie Eyes Wide Shut reduces the masked participants to dolls, and the drugged, bleached state of Cruise's long-legged trophy wife Nicole Kidman is also reminiscent of Barbie.

-Accounts of satanic ritual sacrifice and programming techniques feature children being trained to stab dolls, and then eventually forced to stab other children.

-



http://www.answers.com/topic/anatoly-onoprienko

-Anatoly Onoprienko - Ukrainian serial killer known as "the Terminator"; murdered 52 people from 1989 until his capture in 1996

- Sitting in his cell the Ukranian serial killer that came to be knowsn as the Terminator told Reuters and a regional newspaper: "I have never regretted anything and I don't regret anything now." In the bizarre and emotional hour-long interview he added that cosmic forces planned to destroy humanity and replace it with "bio-robots."

- his mother died when he was four and his father and brother gave him to an orphanage at seven, and that he had heard voices telling him to do the murders

-Onoprienko made statements about mental seizures, being spied on, voices, the CIA, interpol, and the influence of higher powers.




Marilyn Monroe was raised by foster parents and orphanages from infancy, which lends credence to the idea that she may have been a CIA project. (also note how her relatives were corralled into asylums, and she found her way by way of 'guardians' to marrying a merchant marine and working in a war weapons factory during the war.) Also a fascinating mention of Marilyn having been raised in an odd gender-bent environment from birth until the age of seven:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe

Unable to persuade Della to take Norma Jeane, Gladys placed her with foster parents Albert and Ida Bolender of Hawthorne, California, where she lived until she was seven. In her autobiography My Story, Monroe states she thought Albert was a girl. However, some do not consider My Story trustworthy, as the book was a collaboration between Monroe and ghost-writer Ben Hecht and it was assumed Monroe was keen on dramatizing and coloring her past in order to make her public image more vulnerable. Hecht divulged to his agent: "It is easy to know when she is telling the truth. The moment a true thing comes out of her mouth, her eyes shed tears. She's like her own lie detector."[4] In 2001, the book was reissued and Hecht was given credit.[5]

Gladys visited Norma Jeane every Saturday. One day, she announced that she had bought a house. A few months after they had moved in, Gladys suffered a breakdown. In My Story, Monroe recalls her mother "screaming and laughing" as she was forcibly removed to the State Hospital in Norwalk. Gladys's father, Otis, died in an asylum near San Bernardino from syphilis. According to My Sister Marilyn, Gladys's brother, Marion, hanged himself upon his release from an asylum, and Della's father did the same in a fit of depression.

Norma Jeane was declared a ward of state, and Gladys's best friend, Grace McKee (later Goddard) became her guardian. After McKee married in 1935, Norma Jeane was sent to the Los Angeles Orphans Home (later renamed Hollygrove), and then to a succession of foster homes.

The Goddards were about to move to the east coast and could not take her. Grace approached the mother of James Dougherty about the possibility of her son marrying the girl. They married two weeks after she turned 16, so that Norma Jeane would not have to return to an orphanage or
While her husband was in the Merchant Marine during World War II, Norma Jeane Dougherty moved in with her mother-in-law, and started to work in the Radioplane Company factory (owned by Hollywood actor Reginald Denny), spraying airplane parts with fire retardant and inspecting parachutes. Army photographer David Conover was scouting local factories, taking photos for a YANK magazine article about women contributing to the war effort. He saw her potential as a model and she was soon signed by The Blue Book modelling agency. In his book Finding Marilyn, Conover claimed the two had an affair that lasted years. Shortly after signing with the agency, Monroe had her hair cut, straightened and lightened to golden blonde.

She became one of Blue Book's most successful models, appearing on dozens of magazine covers. In 1946, she came to the attention of talent scout Ben Lyon. He arranged a screen test for her with 20th Century Fox. She was offered a standard six-month contract with a starting salary of $125 per week.

also listen to this audio analysis of the occult occurrences surrounding the death of the film's producer Stanley Kubrick:

left click and save to your disk .

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2007/01jan/RICR-070121-kbentkowski.mp3

[hunkahunka]

In 'My Own Private Idaho', there is a clip of Mike having flash-backs to his early childhood, of his mother passing out on the porch in a narcoleptic siezure, and dropping Mike
while Mike , as a baby boy , is dressed in pink.
This clip is shown when Mike is being told of why he was taken from his mother as a baby and sent to be raised in a mental institution. because 'mom was not safe', in other words, she was prone to narcolepsy just like Mike was.
This clip is a hint that Mike's mother is also a 'project', and that Mike was undergoing gender dissociation from an early age, (pink jacket)

I think gender dissociation is a mind control technique that further prevents the child from forming a firm self-identity. Another technique is to use children from broken homes with
skewed gender/parental roles, which also helps prevent the child from forming bonds and learning gender identity roles from its caregivers. The more confused,disoriented, and dissociated from 'selfhood' the baby/child is, the greater their susceptibility to auto-suggestion

[lizzy]

i'm a troll for revealing something personal many people don't know about, & giving my reason why i do those things?

yeah, i didn't start (EDITED) myself because i was traumatised by satanists. if it's not sensational enough, you don't want to know do you?

thanks for posting the triggering photo by the way...

You asking hunkahunka to exercise self censorship which is wrong.
You have given 2 separate reasons why.
The first that it was insensitive to the family in question....he answered that.
The second now being it triggers a reaction in yourself due to satanic abuse.

My thoughts would be that you don't expose yourself to this thread anylonger and try to find help.

For many and I am one, much of this data, albeit , extremely sinister and upsetting, is bringing to light the level to which TPTB in the entertainment industry have gone to program and de-humanise whole populations, generation after generation.
It is probablly their most abhorrent tool. To down play the evil that is done is just exactly what these heartless bastards would want.
It just is'nt for all stomachs or psychs.

As for closing down of some site, .....I say, go to a lawyer and start a case against those who satanically abused YOU.

I have met several people here recently who confess to mind control..it's very odd.

[brown velvet]

The film Eyes Wide Shut contains references to the rainbow and 'end of the Rainbow' , which are references to the Wizard of Oz and Kansas.


Hi :)

excellent info, you iz good, great research

brown.

[brown velvet]

I think gender dissociation is a mind control technique that further prevents the child from forming a firm self-identity. Another technique is to use children from broken homes with
skewed gender/parental roles, which also helps prevent the child from forming bonds and learning gender identity roles from its caregivers. The more confused,disoriented, and dissociated from 'selfhood' the child is, the greater their susceptibility to auto-suggestion


:)

I haven't seen 'My Own Private Idaho'. Would it be worth it too? :/

Have you considered that the child that is targetted for this kind of abuse, may well be required, by some kind of 'rite' to be both 'daughter AND son'?
Am trying to think of the book I read that mentions this requirement, would you like me to try really hard to remember it? lolol

brown.

[cheeb]

This Connection Goes Really Deep....

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6550/crashessg2.jpg

Princesses In Car Crashes...

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7341/jayne2aaob2.jpg

Jayne Mansfield As An Archetypical "
Queen Of Hearts"

Obviously Based On Previous Sacrifised Queens Of Hearts,
Dianna, The Huntress Of The White Dear,
"The White Heart"

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9619/whiteheartvj1.jpg

Jayne Mansfield,
Decapitated Platinum Blond..
Lover Of Anton Le Vey...

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9325/jmgrs9.jpg

Goodbye Norma Jean,
Elton John Euology To The English Rose,
Princess Dianna....

Who Died With A Heart Injury....

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/18/hsbnewbd9.jpg

Heart Shaped Box..

Bit Pissed At The Moment

Sorry....

:)

[hunkahunka]

:)

I haven't seen 'My Own Private Idaho'. Would it be worth it too? :/

Have you considered that the child that is targetted for this kind of abuse, may well be required, by some kind of 'rite' to be both 'daughter AND son'?
Am trying to think of the book I read that mentions this requirement, would you like me to try really hard to remember it? lolol

brown.

interesting , maybe you can dig it up for us!?

you should watch My Own Private Idaho online, it was available on Google Video last time I checked.

[amethyst]

WOW!!!
What A Thread...
'only noticed it a couple of days ago,
but have been posting on a similar theme myself..;

Anne Nicole Smith...

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/128/annanicolesmithclownsk8.jpg

This Is Fairly Disturbing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULYGi6dnvw

Brought to Rivera's show by the father of a nine-year-old girl present for the entire shoot, the girl describes having seen Howard K. Stern give Smith something from "a white bottle with red stripes."

Howard K. Stern-Her Handler...

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7655/iranflagsw9.gif

the clown make up on Anna's face is the flag of Iran. Could it be more ritual? Hmmm. You do remember the meaning of Shock and Awe (shekinah), right?
The story moves into surreality with Britney checking into the Promises Clinic and scrawling 666 on her forehead, screaming that she is the anti-christ, and then, trying to hang herself.

This Is A Longer Less Edited Version Of The Tape:

http://www.defamer.com.au/2007/10/anna_nicole_smith_clown_video_.html

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9243/annenicolesmithbf3.jpg
The Joker..

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5735/joker460li0.jpg

Deranged Terrorist...

The tape showed Anna Nicole in a toga with clown makeup scrawled bizarrely across her face.
In the words of BJ Berstein, legal analyst, Anna had a "very child-like, haunting voice."
Stern says, "Anna, Anna listen to me."
"Riley thinks you’ve absolutely lost your mind.”
"Huh?" Anna replies.
“Riley thinks you’ve lost your mind.”
“I didn’t lose my mind.”
“She thinks you have.”
“I didn’t.”
"Is this a mushroom trip?" Stern asks.
"What do you mean?" Anna asks like a 4 year old girl.
"I'm kidding."
"What does that mean?"
"I'm kidding."
The scene then cuts to a closer shot of Anna looking like a member of the Insane Clown Posse and
Stern says, "This footage is worth money."
To which the child-like voice replies, "Why? What feetage?"
"This thing you're looking into."
"That's a camera."
"Exactly."
Analyst Bernstein says Anna is "clearly intoxicated". Was she? The autopsy shows no sign of drug abuse and no drugs in her stomach after death. This is a clear case of mind-control,

Triple Reinforcement From The Handler..!!!!

The Dark Night..!!!

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8104/drakknightposter42408qr0.jpg

Reinforcing Terrorist Attacks,
Of 2001...

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6796/wtcnorthtoweref7.jpg


Could it be that what we are witnessing in our top pop stars recently is the result of trauma-based mind-control? Have the Monarch mind-controlled slaves gone wild? Anna Nicole mysteriously dies, Britney shamelessly shaves herself bald, Astronaut Lisa Nowak sets off on a mission of doom in diapers; what is going on!?
There is a program so grim, its aspects are difficult to talk about. I am referring to Satanic Ritual Abuse. It is widespread and goes to the upper echelons of the world's rulers. Most Americans won't believe that mind control is going on in the "homeland." Well, it is. Many of the rituals and methods employed in the mind control projects are inspired by the ancient mystery schools; blood and sex rituals to the god and goddess. From ancient Babylon to Nazi Germany and on into America, trauma-based mind control has been the modus operandi of the Illuminati.

The Old Batman Had A Mentor/Handler,
Theme to it...
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1955/batmanandrobinscalingawnf1.jpg

As Well As This Villain
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2329/thepenguintr4.jpg

The Penguin.!!!
With The Mary Poppins Style Umbrella..

Are We All Being Predictave/Regressive Programmed,
By This Media Manipulation Of Events....???

"Is this a mushroom trip?"

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4856/mushroomcloudhblb1.jpg

There Is Some Similar Stuff Here

http://thefreemanperspective.blogspot.com/2007/02/httpwww2bloggercomimggllinkgifanna.html

:eek:

Hey Cheeb,

Are you saying the "joker" character represents a deranged terrorist"?

That this is part of the "conditioning" process?

[cheeb]

Hey Cheeb,

Are you saying the "joker" character represents a deranged terrorist"?

That this is part of the "conditioning" process?

Not Really,
Opposames

The Terrorists Kill 3,000 People..

The Good Guys Kill 1,000,000,
People...
Same Difference,

They Got Hijacked Planes...

We Got Depleted Uranium...

And Hardly No TV Coverage....

Technology 1 Caves 0..

This Will Change Though....!!!

:eek:

[lizzy]

I think that some powerful people in ancient times actually were hemophiliacs who craved animal blood, and over time these people found that they also got high on the endorphin natural opiates and adrenaline in the blood of tortured and/or traumatized animals. When they became wealthier and more powerful, acquiring servants/slavest etc., this blood drinking/animal torture was eventually extended to people. People became livestock to the super rich.

Children are extremely sensitive to pain, and create gigantic amounts of both natural pain killing opiates, and adrenaline, when tortured. Children would also be prized because they are tender, clean, and their blood also contains large amounts of growth hormone. Did the ancients know of all this? The science of endorphins and adrenaline? I doubt it

. I think that all they knew was that they got a bigger high and a bigger health boost from the blood and flesh of children than from any other type of animal or person they had ever consumed. That would be combined with the thrill of their own adrenaline surge from committing the act itself. So being ignorant of the science behind the high they were getting, they would attribute these 'blessings'
to some sinister spirit, some spirit readily 'rewarding them' for causing pain and fear.

Also, young children have incredible learning capacity, therefore their brains would be nutritious to the elite in boosting the elite's own intelligence.
This, btw, reminds me of the two mass shootings of youths at engineering schools. There were the Ecole Polytechnique shootings of engineering students in Montreal, and the recent shootings of engineering students
at Virginia Tech. Strange coincidence, that. So, someone wanted those spatially gifted brains for something, either to eat those pineal glands, those highly specialized pineal glands, or to do something else with them. Maybe some sort of esoteric research project requiring use of the highly advanced brain properties of young engineers ?
I think as science progresses, humans do come into progressively more physical danger of becoming 'product' for the wealthy.
In ancient times, you might have ended up with this class of hemophiliac blood drinkers/brain eaters who were inexplicably gaining strength and youth, developing incredible memories, youthful vigor, and even euphoria from the narcotic properties of their diet, none of it fully understood in a scientific sense. It would be attributed to 'spirits' compelling these people to inflict pain and terror and death. So you would see this 'alternate' spirituality and mythology begin to develop around the whole practise. The more vile and violent and tortuous the tormentor, the greater his reward.
Anyone remember the mythology of dracula having super human strength,
and the films where he is caught drinking some woman's blood, and when her husband tries to pull him off her neck, he picks him up with one hand and flings him into the wall? Adrenaline , baby. Not just his adrenaline, the adrenaline that he is drinking in from his horrified victim.
Or the scene where the woman screams and he says "hah ha hah, your screams are music to my ears." Why so? Because the more scared she is, the more adrenaline she'll secrete for him.
So you have this class of people that seem to be smarter, more vigorous, etc., that can go about their ruthless business with a dual purpose:

Why just kill social and political enemies when you can eat them too?
Or put it another way. Vice versa, so to speak:
If you need to eat people, why not seek out your social and political enemies
and kill two birds with one stone?

And again , you have sects of these people springing up, gathering lore and glory, and convinced that it is all part of some grand dark design, as they watch their own vitality, wealth, intelligence, accomplishments and evil dwarf that of regular people.

This is an interesting post hunka.
As we approach 2012, 25,000yrs to the next galactic alignment, would'nt they have needed to have observed a first? But perhaps ancient astromoner/priests could have extrapolated too.
But, it is believed by some that during the 16,000 yrs ice-age, ancient earth-born Trodlogytes had achieved a superior level of technology before being forced in to the caves by catastrophy and drank human blood for the reasons you gave and still today some cultures still drink animal mixed with milk.
When the Trogs, todays PTB, emerged from various caves from Crete, the Bospherus and Caucases ect, Arabic and Armenian histories say they came down from "On High", and enthused the lowlanders with music ,alcohol and various drugs. They created a lesser priesthood recruiting 'widow's sons' who swore alligence to the Trogs who made their former brethren work harder and longer to keep the greedy Trogs in luxury, continuing their studies in astronomy, natural sciences and controlled trade routes, formented wars but most of all watched Man......And now their have their mind control of us perfected to a scientific art........
In the not so distant future these crude methods will not be necessary , we will be chipped and their lone term plan complete.
Some of this is to be found in the Old testament and the Tulmud.
The agenda perhaos is to create an hermaphrodite culture which requires andorgyny first.
One Gov. One Religion (the occult), one sex.

[cheeb]

Once Again Ciggy Comes To The Rescue:

More than 70 years. Before MKULTRA there were the neo-Rosicrucian Hermetic lodges which did essentially the same research in a slightly lower-tech venue. And before them there were the Bavarian-era "Illuminati", and Gothic lodges, Teutonic Knights, etc. And before them you had the medieval and renaissance era "alchemists" (which is more of a mind science than a chemical or metallurgical one). And before the "alchemists" you had the Knights Templar. And before them Catholicism was the main gang for the mystical elite, before which it was Pagan priesthoods, going "back to the beginning".

They've never stopped studying how best to fuck with people, fuck with their minds, manipulate esoteric energies, and gain dominance and control over communities, nations, and the world, ever since the Stone Age.

And they still can't get it right. The corruption of power, fortunately, also makes you retarded. That's a nice safety valve in Mother Nature's balancing systems for biological life forms.

But Balancing Means Culling,
DEPOPULATION

Bring It On Melon Farmers!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUki-07sp2E&feature=related

:eek:

[drael]

Something that may or not be related, but that i think is interesting - the song, Lithium. Lithium is a drug given to bipolar people, and if u listen to the song, its clear kurt had his brush with the mental health system.

[lizzy]

Something that may or not be related, but that i think is interesting - the song, Lithium. Lithium is a drug given to bipolar people, and if u listen to the song, its clear kurt had his brush with the mental health system.


hi dreal,
Bi-polar has been the diagnosis du jour for a few years now. Many not authentic, just another tool of corrupt medical profession to slate everyone possible and push big pharma down their throats from as early an age as 4 yrs old. The drugs Cobain took probablly made him psychotic on ocassion but that should not have had him labelled as such. The APA have been lowering the diagnostic parameters on all mental conditions for many years now.

I was married to real bi-polar manic depressive for 17yrs. That is another story.

[soulja]

I now understand what caused me to have a psychotic break when I was thirteen, why I have never been able to remember my childhood, and most importantly, why, after attacking my three year old nephew at thirteen, I begged the policeman to kill me believing I was the Anti-Christ. All of my adult life- I just assumed this was all due to growing up with sadists as parents, and the fact that I dreamed over and over, night after night, year after year about children being tortured, children being raped, and children climbing out of shared graves constantly chasing me was some strange psychotic way my mind processed the rage I had repressed from my abuse. I have hidden all my life- unable to understand how I could care so much about the world around me while awake and yet, at night, all I would dream of is children being tortured to death in unspeakable ways. It was this Jekyll and Hyde condition that compelled me seek out therapy- because, although I am rational enough to realize I am not the antichrist, I’ve worried when the switch would flip and I would become what I dream- always convinced my dreams signaled some horrendous hidden desire within me, psychotic in nature.

this reminds me at Britney when we had that whole ''brit went mad'' episode of her.

The ordeal began when she terrified staff by writing the number of the beast on her head and running around the clinic screaming, "I am the anti-christ!"

"The clinic people just didn't know what to do," a friend claimed.

The pop star then tried to hang herself with a bedsheet but was found before she could hurt herself.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21325695-5001021,00.html

so why would she went utterly mad and declare herself to be the anti christ ?
also trying to kill herself ? seems to me like she had backflashes, amnesiac barriers that broke allowing memories of abuse and other horrific stuff that was done to her AND what she has done to others (forced to do) to flood her conscious mind. that would also explain her suicide attempt as wheeler and others have pointed out that once those deep traumatic memories are accessed the suicide alter(s) kick in.

like Richie James Edwards she shaved her head at that time
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/mk/BritAttack.png

When a Body & Soul employee looked at the pop star in disbelief and asked why she shaved her head, Spears said, "I don't want anyone touching me. I'm tired of everybody touching me," Us Weekly reports.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Health/story?id=2885048&page=1

anyway seems like they have ''fixed'' her now.

btw didn't she have a song called '' I'm a Slave for U'' ?
with parts of the hook going like '' Im a slave for you, I cannot hold it, I cannot control it.''

[soulja]

amethyst posted this in the Christian Bale thread.

If anyone has been reading the "Kurt Cobain" thread ,in the " Political Manipulation / Cover-Ups / False Flags" section, you might recognize some of the highlighted "Bolded" phrases...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...gged-100k.html

Excerpt:

Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: Arrested Batman star 'lost his temper after his mother insulted his wife'

Although police were informed about Sunday's incident, they decided to wait until they had spoken to the alleged victims before questioning Bale.


Jenny and Sharon Bale gave their statements to police on Monday and on Tuesday


Bale spent nearly five hours at Belgravia police station in central London.


Though Jenny Bale - who formerly worked as a circus clown and now is a reflexologist - has previously spoken of her pride in her son, the two do not appear to be especially close.


Christian Bale's parents split up when he was 13. Four years later, while his mother Jenny stayed in Bournemouth, Christian followed his father David to live in America.


In stark contrast to Bale's multimillionaire Hollywood lifestyle, Jenny Bale lives in a modest £275,000, detached house in Southbourne, Dorset. She drives a VW Beetle decorated with angelwing motifs.


She has worked a dancer, a sword-eater's assistant and has played the Queen of Hearts at an Alice in Wonderland children's theme park.


She brought up Christian and his two sisters Louise and Sharon among a menagerie of family pets, including 12 cats, six dogs, two ponies, 24 guinea pigs, two rabbits and several stick insects.

Christian Bale married Sandra 'Sibi' Blazic, 38, in 2000 after the couple met when she was working as a personal assistant to the actress Winona Ryder on the film Little Women. They have a three-year-old daughter.


Yesterday one source close to Christian Bale revealed that the couple had recently been experiencing marital problems.


The actor is also said to have been in a fragile state of mind following the death of his friend Heath Ledger, who also stars in The Dark Knight film, from a drugs overdose.


Recently he also complained that he had been depressed and suffering from insomnia.
Yesterday neither Jenny nor Sharon Bale - who lives very near her mother in a £240,000 semi-detached home - were willing to comment."


Is Christian "waking up" ????

Yeah, that story...just does not add up.

Who goes to the police unless they've been physically hurt or attacked?

Methinks, more like they want to send a message to Christian to keep towing the party line..

.."just do your job Christian...don't make waves, don't cause trouble, keep to the program, or "programming"

[hunkahunka]

anyone want to take a stab at the imagery in this video?
I see a lot of trauma mind control references

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVLD0L-9u0g&feature=related

hey, Cheeb! IS this a mushroom trip?

[hunkahunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xleFqzUU91g&NR=1

[soulja]

no accident that she snaps in front of a mirror.

she also snaps easely (scene is from the movie ''The Hard Corps'')
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/Hideout/thc248.jpg
and the director went as far as placing a monarch butterfly on the mirror just to make sure we get what's really said in this scene.

[brown velvet]

interesting , maybe you can dig it up for us!?

you should watch My Own Private Idaho online, it was available on Google Video last time I checked.
Hi:)

so, been trying to think of the book... :/

this is one of the ones I read several years ago, very, very powerful, lots of graphic and detailed information (:() and I think it was in here somewhere, unfortunately I no longer have access to my copy of the book, or I would send you the relevant quotes, if this is the correct one, I have read so many now.

Lessons in Evil, Lessons from the Light:

http://www.gailfeldman.net/about.htm


http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/0517588773

if this isn't it, then I am at the moment at a loss to remember which one it is in. Sorry.

brown.

[brown velvet]

anyone want to take a stab at the imagery in this video?
I see a lot of trauma mind control references

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVLD0L-9u0g&feature=related

Hi

massive destruction as consequences of dream / sleep / rest
too many snakes.... medusa like imagery. violence, a dead child? Again. :confused: some kind of cat-o-nine-tails, looks like small (baby?) skulls too me, but I could just be needing glasses ;)
weather / explosions, knock on effects of fire / destruction (domino?)
genetics / breeding. Replaying of time backwards. trees.

apart from that, nothing much :D

what did you see?

brown.

[brown velvet]

anyone want to take a stab at the imagery in this video?
I see a lot of trauma mind control references

Hi :)

I have wanted to know what anyone thinks to this piece of work.....?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-h1EEsKDA don't know how to make it all look 'pretty' with a video image to click and watch, so you get the naked link :p

brown.

[cheeb]

this reminds me at Britney when we had that whole ''brit went mad'' episode of her.



so why would she went utterly mad and declare herself to be the anti christ ?
also trying to kill herself ? seems to me like she had backflashes, amnesiac barriers that broke allowing memories of abuse and other horrific stuff that was done to her AND what she has done to others (forced to do) to flood her conscious mind. that would also explain her suicide attempt as wheeler and others have pointed out that once those deep traumatic memories are accessed the suicide alter(s) kick in.

like Richie James Edwards she shaved her head at that time
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/mk/BritAttack.png

When a Body & Soul employee looked at the pop star in disbelief and asked why she shaved her head, Spears said, "I don't want anyone touching me. I'm tired of everybody touching me," Us Weekly reports.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Health/story?id=2885048&page=1

anyway seems like they have ''fixed'' her now.

btw didn't she have a song called '' I'm a Slave for U'' ?
with parts of the hook going like '' Im a slave for you, I cannot hold it, I cannot control it.''

It's There In Black And White,
Before The Programming Broke Down...

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3961/brit666xd5.jpg

The ordeal began when she terrified staff by writing the number of the beast on her head and running around the clinic screaming, "I am the anti-christ!"

"The clinic people just didn't know what to do," a friend claimed.

The pop star then tried to hang herself with a bedsheet was but was found before she could hurt herself.

Spears, who hid her recently-sheared head under a brown wig and hat when she left Malibu's Promises treatment centre to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, shocked onlookers by revealing the strange doodles all over the backs of her hands.

Flowers and the word Push could be made out among the scribbles.

Britneys Tattoos

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5797/britneytattoostg9.jpg

Her foot tattoo, tattooed in NY in the summer of 2004, is of a kanji for "freedom" with a vine and butterfly added around it. She got it to symbolize that she was "free as a butterfly" but really, was she living her life freely at the time? Given the amount of handlers and managers in her life, I'm guessing she was yearning more for a free life and not really living it

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6046/britneybutterfltnt4.jpg

Britney With Monarch Butterfly

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5811/monarchbutterflyvg8.jpg
Monarch Butterfly

Here Is A Small List Of Other Divas (Princess Altars)
With Butterfly Tattoos

* Drew Barrymore: has one on her abdomen, right under her belly button.
* Maria Carey: has a lower back butterfly tattoo (fake or not?).
* Paris Hilton: has a small butterfly tattoo on her back (could be temporary).
* Kelis: has a butterfly on her stomach.
* Dolly Parton: country star with a flutterby on her chest.
* Julia Roberts: has a lower back butterfly.
* Britney Spears: has a butterfly tattoo on her left foot.

The Monarch Butterfly Also Turns Up In Taxi Driver
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2206/monarchtaxiss4.jpg
The Monarch butterfly is also represented by Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver in the very scene where she is specifically linking herself to the other sugar-loving lolitas.

That Film Has A Whole Host Of Things Going On In It...

Child Prostitution,
Assasination,
Travis Bickle Shaves His Hair Before Going His Killing Spree,,
And Attempts To Blow His Brains Out But Fails...

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3553/taxidriveraj5.jpg

Ruby Slippers..

This One Might Even Need It's Own Peice

[soulja]

"The Greenbaum Speech"
Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse - D. C. Hammond Ph.D.


Herein is the lecture by D. C. Hammond, originally entitled "Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the "Greenbaum Speech," delivered at the Fourth Annual Eastern Regional Conference on Abuse and Multiple Personality, Thursday June 25, 1992, at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia. Sponsored by the Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The Psychiatric Institute of Washington, D.C. Both a tape and a transcript were at one time available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia (800-338-2111). Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the conference are still being sold but -- understandably -- not this one. The transcript below was made from a privately made tape of the original lecture.

The single most remarklable thing about this speech is how little one has heard of it in the two years since its original delivery. It is recommended that one reads far enough at least until one finds why it's called "the Greenbaum speech."


`THE GREENBAUM SPEECH of D.C.HAMMOND''

We've got a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough approximate outline of the the things that I'd like us to get into.

First, let me ask how many of you have had at least one course or workshop on hypnosis? Can I see the hands? Wonderful. That makes our job easier. Okay. I want to start off by talking a little about trance-training and the use of hypnotic phenomena with an MPD dissociative-disorder population, to talk some about unconscious exploration, methods of doing that, the use of imagery and symbolic imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms, input overload, things like that.

Before the day's out, I want to spend some time talking about something I think has been completely neglected in the field of dissociative disorder, and that's talking about methods of profound calming for automatic hyper-arousal that's been conditioned in these patients. We're going to spend a considerable length of time talking about age-regression and abreaction in working through a trauma. I'll show you with a non-MPD patient -- some of that kind of work -- and then extrapolate from what I find so similar and different with MPD cases. Part of that, I would add, by the way, is that I've been very sensitive through the years about taping MPD cases or ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of that feels a little like using patients and I think that this population has been used enough. That's part of the reason, by choice, that I don't generally videotape my work.

I also want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse-prevention strategies and post-integration therapy today. Finally, I hope to find somewhere in our time-frame to spend on hour or so talking specifically about ritual abuse and about mind-control programming and brainwashing -- how it's done, how to get on the inside with that -- which is a topic that in the past I haven't been willing to speak about publicly, have done that in small groups and in consultations, but recently decided that it was high time that somebody started doing it. So we're going to talk about specifics today. [Applause]

In Chicago at the first international congress where ritual abuse was talked about I can remember thinking, "How strange and interesting." I can recall many people listening to an example given that somebody thought was so idiosyncratic and rare, and all the people coming up after saying, "Gee, you're treating one, too? You're in Seattle"...Well, I'm in Toronto...Well, I'm in Florida...Well, I'm in Cincinnati." I didn't know what to think at that point. It wasn't too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse patient in somebody I was already treating and we hadn't gotten that deep yet.

Things in that case made me very curious about the use of mind-control techniques and hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques. So I started studying brainwashing and some of the literature in that area and became acquainted with, in fact, one of the people who'd written one of the better books in that area. Then I decided to do a survey, and from the ISSMP&D [International Society for the Study of Multiple Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked out about a dozen and a half therapists that I though were seeing more of that than probably anyone else around and I started surveying them.

The interview protocol, that I had. got the same reaction almost without exception.

Those therapists said, "You're asking questions I don't know the answers to. You're asking more specific questions than I've ever asked my patients." Many of those same therapists said, "Let me ask those questions and I'll get back to you with the answer." Many of them not only got back with answers, but said, "You've got to talk to this patient or these two patients." I ended up doing hundred of dollars worth of telephone interviewing. What I came out of that was a grasp of a variety of brainwashing methods being used all over the country.

I started to hear some similarities. Whereas I hadn't known, to begin with, how widespread things were, I was now getting a feeling that there were a lot of people reporting some similar things and that there must be some degree of communication here. Then approximately two and a half years ago I had some material drop in my lap. My source was saying a lot of things that I knew were accurate about some of the brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I had no idea about.

At this point I took and decided to check it out in three ritual-abuse patients I was seeing at the time. Two of the three had what they were describing, in careful inquiry without leading or contaminating. The fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a therapist that I'd been consulting for quite a number of months on an MPD case in another state, I told her to inquire about certain things.

She said, "Well, what are those things?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you, because I don't want there to be any possibility of contamination. Just come back to me and tell me what the patient says." She called me back two hours later, said, "I just had a double session with this patient and there was a part of him that said, 'Oh, we're so excited. If you know about this stuff, you know how the Cult Programmers get on the inside and our therapy is going to go so much faster.'" Many other patients since have had a reaction of wanting to pee their pants out of anxiety and fear rather than thinking it was wonderful thing. But the interesting thing was that she then asked, "What are these things?" They were word perfect -- same answers my source had given me. I've since repeated that in many parts of the country.

I've consulted in eleven states and one foreign country, in some cases over the telephone, in some cases in person, in some cases giving the therapist information ahead of time and saying, "Be very careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these ways so you don't contaminate."

In other cases not even giving the therapist information ahead of time so they couldn't. When you start to find the same highly esoteric information in different states and different countries, from Florida to California, you start to get an idea that there's something going on that is very large, very well coordinated, with a great deal of communication and sytematicness to what's happening. So I have gone from someone kind of neutral and not knowing what to think about it all to someone who clearly believes ritual abuse is real and that the people who say it isn't are either naive like people who didn't want to believe the Holocaust or -- they're dirty. [Applause]

Now for a long time I would tell a select group of therapists that I knew and trusted, information and say, "Spread it out. Don't spread my name. Don't say where it came from. But here's some information. Share it with other therapists if you find it's on target, and I'd appreciate your feedback."

People would question -- in talks -- and say, you know, they were hungry for information. Myself, as well as a few others that I've shared it with, were hedging out of concern and out of personal threats and out of death threats. I finally decided to hell with them. If they're going to kill me, they're going to kill me. It's time to share more information with therapists. Part of that comes because we proceeded so cautiously and slowly, checking things in many different locations and find the same thing. So I'm going to give you the way in with ritual-abuse programming. I certainly can't tell you everything that you want to know in forty-five or fifty minutes, but I'm going to give you the essentials to get inside and start working at a new level. I don't know what proportion, honestly, of patients have this. I would guess that maybe somewhere around at least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-quarters, I would guess maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse patients may have this.

What do I think the distinguishing characteristic is? If they were raised from birth in a mainstream cult or if they were an non-bloodline person, meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult people had a lot of access to them in early childhood, they may also have it. I have seen more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly had all the kind of ritual things you hear about. They seemed very genuine. They talked about all the typical things that you hear in this population, but had none of this programming with prolonged extensive checking.

So I believe in one case I was personally treating that she was a kind of schizmatic break-off that had kind of gone off and done their own thing and were no longer hooked into a mainstream group. [Pause]

Here's where it appears to have come from. At the end of World War II, before it even ended, Allen Dulles and people from our Intelligence Community were already in Switzerland making contact to get out Nazi scientists. As World War II ends, they not only get out rocket scientists, but they also get out some Nazi doctors who have been doing mind-control research in the camps.

They brought them to the United States. Along with them was a young boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and a background of Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people in the Cult because at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not earlier.

I suspect it may have formed some bond between them. But he saved his skin by collaborating and being an assistant to them in the death-camp experiments. They brought him with them. They started doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military hospitals in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors, were Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized it some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this work that appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His name is known to patients throughout the country. [Pause]

What they basically do is they will get a child and they will start this, in basic forms, it appears, by about two and a half after the child's already been made dissociative. They'll make him dissociative not only through abuse, like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a mousetrap on their fingers and teaching the parents, "You do not go in until the child stops crying. Only then do you go in and remove it." They start in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and kick into high gear, it appears, around six or six and a half, continue through adolescence with periodic reinforcements in adulthood.

Basically in the programming the child will be put typically on a gurney. They will have an IV in one hand or arm. They'll be strapped down, typically naked. There'll be wires attached to their head to monitor electroencephalograph patterns. They will see a pulsing light, most often described as red, occasionally white or blue. They'll be given, most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes it'll be other drugs as well depending on the kind of programming. They have it, I think, down to a science where they've learned you give so much every twenty-five minutes until the programming is done.

They then will describe a pain on one ear, their right ear generally, where it appears a needle has been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting sounds in that ear while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain into a brainwave pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency not unlike the goggles that are now available through Sharper Image and some of those Kinds of stores. Then, after a suitable period when they're in a certain brainwave state, they will begin programming, programming oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the person.

In a patient at this point in time about eight years old who has gone through a great deal early programming took place on a military installation. That's not uncommon. I've treated and been involved with cases who are part of this original mind-control project as well as having their programming on military reservations in many cases.

We find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient now was in a Cult school, a private Cult school where several of these sessions occurred a week. She would go into a room, get all hooked up. They would do all of these sorts of things. When she was in the proper altered state, now they were no longer having to monitor it with electroencephalographs, she also had already had placed on her electrodes, one in the vagina, for example, four on the head.

Sometimes they'll be on other parts of the body. They will then begin and they would say to her, "You are angry with someone in the group." She'd say, "No, I'm not" and they'd violently shock her. They would say the same thing until she complied and didn't make any negative response. Then they would continue. "And because you are angry with someone in the group," or "When you are angry with someone in the group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?" She said, "No" and they shocked her. They repeated again, "Do you understand?" "Well, yes, but I don't want to." Shock her again until they get compliance. Then they keep adding to it. "And you will hurt yourself by cutting yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe she'd say yes, but they might say, "We don't believe you" and shock her anyway. "Go back and go over it again." They would continue in this sort of fashion. She said typically it seemed as though they'd go about thirty minutes, take a break for a smoke or something, come back. They may review what they'd done and stopped or they might review what they'd done and go on to new material. She said the sessions might go half an hour, they might go three hours. She estimated three times a week.

Programming under the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave state and with these noises in one ear and them speaking in the other ear, usually the left ear, associated with right hemisphere non-dominant brain functioning, and with them talking, therefore, and requiring intense concentration, intense focusing. Because often they'll have to memorize and say certain things back, word-perfect, to avoid punishment, shock, and other kinds of things that are occurring. This is basically how a lot of programming goes on. Some of it'll also use other typical brainwashing kinds of techniques.

There will be very standardized types of hypnotic things done at times. There'll be sensory deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in anyone. Total sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly increased, from the research. It's not uncommon for them to use a great deal of that, including formal sensory-deprivation chambers before they do certain of these things. [Pause]

Now let me give you, because we don't have a lot of time, as much practical information as I can. The way that I would inquire as to whether or not some of this might be there would be with ideomotor finger-signals. After you've set them up I would say, "I want the central inner core of you to take control of the finger-signals." Don't ask the unconscious mind. The case where you're inquiring about ritual abuse, that's for the central inner core. The core is a Cult-created part. "And I want that central inner core of you to take control of this hand of these finger-signals and what it has for the yes-finger to float up. I want to ask the inner core of you is there any part of you, any part of Mary," that's the host's name, "who knows anything about Alpha, Beta, Delta, or Theta." If you get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might have someone with formal intensive brainwashing and programming in place. I would then ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows something about Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Theta to come up to a level where you can speak to me and when you're here say, 'I'm here.'" I would not ask if a part was willing to. No one's going to particularly want to talk about this. I would just say, "I want some part who can tell me about this to come out." Without leading them ask them what these things are. I've had consults where I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a Yes to that, but as I've done exploration it appeared to be some kind of compliance response or somebody wanting, in two or three cases, to appear maybe that they were ritual abuse and maybe they were in some way, but with careful inquiry and looking it was obvious that they did not have what we were looking for.

Let me tell you what these are. Let's suppose that this whole front row here are multiples and that she has an alter named Helen and she has one named Mary, she has one named Gertrude, she has one named Elizabeth, and she has one named Monica. Every one of those alters may have put on it a program, perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine a Cult person could say, "Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make some kind of hand gesture to indicate this and get the same part out in any one of them even though they had different names that they may be known by to you. Alphas appear to represent general programming, the first kind of things put in. Betas appear to be sexual programs. For example, how to perform oral sex in a certain way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with producing child pornography, directing child pornography, prostitution. Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies. There'll also be some self-harm stuff mixed in with that, assassination and killing. Thetas are called psychic killers.

You know, I had never in my life heard those two terms paired together. I'd never heard the words "psychic killers" put together, but when you have people in different states, including therapists inquiring and asking, "What is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers," it tends to make one a believer that certain things are very systematic and very widespread.

This comes from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities and powers, including their ability to psychically communicate with "mother'" including their ability to psychically cause somebody to develop a brain aneurysm and die. It also is a more future-oriented kind of programming.

Then there's Omega. I usually don't include that word when I say my first question about this or any part inside that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta because Omega will shake them even more. Omega has to do with self-destruct programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. This can include self-mutilation as well as killing-themselves programming. Gamma appears to be system-protection and deception programming which will provide misinformation to you, try to misdirect you, tell you half-truths, protect different things inside.

There can also be other Greek letters. I'd recommend that you go and get your entire Greek alphabet and if you have verified that some of this stuff is present and they have given you some of the right answers about what some of this material is, and I can't underline enough: DO NOT LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?" Get the answer from them, please. When you've done this and it appears to be present, I would take your entire Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go through the alphabet and say, "Is there any programming inside associated with epsilon, omicron," and go on through.

There may be some sytematicness to some of the other letter, but I'm not aware of it. I've found, for example, in one case that Zeta had to do with the production of snuff films that this person was involved with. With another person, Omicron had to do with their linkage and associations with drug smuggling and with the Mafia and with big business and government leaders. So there's going to be some individualism, I think, in some of those. Some of those are come-home programs, "come back to the Cult", "return to the Cult" program.

Here's the flaw in the system. They have built in shut-down and erasure codes so if they got into trouble they could shut something down and they could also erase something. These codes will sometimes be idiosyncratic phrases, or ditties. Sometimes they will be numbers maybe followed by a word. There's some real individuality to that. At first I had hoped if we can get some of these maybe they'll work with different people. No such luck. It's very unlikely unless they were programmed at about the same point in time as part of the same little group.

Stuff that I've seen suggests that they carry laptop computers, the programmers, which still include everything that they did twenty, thirty years ago in them in terms of the names of alters, the programs, the codes, and so on. Now what you can do is get erasure codes, and I always ask, "If I say this code, what will happen?' Doublecheck. "Is there any part inside who has different information?" Watch your ideomotor signals and what I've found is you can erase programs by giving the appropriate codes, but then you must abreact the feelings.

So if you erase Omega, which is often where I've started because it's the most high risk. Afterwards I will get all the Omega, what were formerly Omega alters, together so that we will abreact and give back to the host the memories associated with all the programming that was done with Omega and anything any Omega part ever had to do in a fractionated abreaction. They use the metaphor -- and it is their metaphor -- of robots. and it is like a robot shell comes down over the child alter to make them act in robotic fashion. Once in a while internally you'll confront robots.

What I found from earlier work, and so I speed the process up now because I confirmed it enough times, is that you can say to the core, "Core, I want you to look -- there's this robot blocking the way in some way, blocking the progress. Go around and look at the back of the head and tell me what you notice on the back of the head or the neck." I just ask it very non-leading like that and what's commonly said to me is that there were wires or a switch. So I'll tell them, "Hold the wires or flip the switch and it will immobilize the robot and give me a yes-signal when you've done it." Pretty soon you get a yes-signal. "Great. Now that the robot is immobilized, I want you to look inside the robot and tell me what you see." It's generally one or several children. I have them remove the children. I do a little hypnotic magic and ask the core to use a laser and vaporize the robot so nothing is left. They're usually quite amazed that this works, as have been a number of therapists. [Pause]

Now there are many different layers of this stuff is the problem. Let me come over to the overhead and give some ideas about them. What we have up here are innumerable alters. I'll tell you one of the fascinating things I've seen. I remember a little over a year ago coming in to see some cases, some of the tough cases at a dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest of the MPD therapists in this country, who are always part of all the international meetings, have lectured internationally.

We worked and I look at some of their patients. They were amazed at certain things because they had not been aware of this before. As we worked with some of the patients and confirmed it, I remember one woman who'd been inpatient for three years, still was inpatient. Another who had one intensive year of inpatient work with all the finest MPD therapy you can imagine -- abreactions, integrations, facilitating cooperation, art therapy, on and on and on, journaling, intensively for one inpatient year followed by an intensive year of outpatient therapy two, three hours a week.

In both patients we found out that all of this great work had done nothing but deal with the alters up here and had not touched the mind-control programming. In fact it was not only intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient was having her therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-of-state, over the telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions that had been give to her at a certain future time to kill her therapist.

Now one of the things that I would very carefully check is, I would suggest that you ask the core, not just the unconscious mind, ask the core, "Is there any part inside that continues to have contact with people associated with the Cult? Is there any part inside who goes to Cult rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device inside of Mary," if that's the host's name, "a recording device inside so that someone can find out the things that are said in sessions?" This doesn't mean they're monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is there someone who debriefs some part inside for what happens in our therapy sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable feeling from some past experience that when you look at this you will find the large proportion of ritual-abuse victims in this country are having their ongoing therapy monitored.

I remember a woman who came in about twenty-four years old, claimed her father was a Satanist. Her parents divorced when she was six. After that it would only when her father had visitation and he would take her to rituals sometimes up until age fifteen. She said, "I haven't gone to anything since I was fifteen." Her therapist believed this at face value. We sat in my office. We did a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found the programming present.

In addition to that we found that every therapy session was debriefed and in fact they had told her to get sick and not come to the appointment with me. Another one had been told that I was Cult and that if she came I would know that she'd been told not to come and I would punish her. If anything meaningful comes out in a patient who's being monitored like that -- from what I've learned thus far, they're tortured with electric shocks -- my belief is if they're in that situation you can't do meaningful therapy other than being supportive and caring and letting them know you care a lot and you'll be there to support them. But I wouldn't try to work with any kind of deep material or deprogramming with them because I think it can do nothing but get them tortured and hurt unless they can get into a safe, secure inpatient unit for an extended period of time to do some of the work required.

I have a feeling that when you make inquiries you're going to find that probably greater than fifty percent of these patients, if they're bloodline, meaning mother or dad or both involved, will be monitored on some ongoing basis. [Pause]

Now when you come below the alters, you then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, so and so forth, the Greek-letter programming and they will then have backup programs. There will typically be an erasure code for the backups. There may be one code that combines all the backups into one and then an erasure code for them, simply one code that erases all the backups. So I will get the code for, let's say, Omega and for all the Omega backups at the same time. After I've asked "What will happen if I give this," I will give the code and then I will say, "What are you experiencing?" They often describe computer whirring, things erasing, explosions inside, all sorts of interesting things.

I've had some therapists come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said anything about robots she said something about robots vaporizing." I remember one therapist who'd been with me in several hypnosis workshops and consulted with me about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah, I got an indication it's there. What is it?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you. Go back and inquire about some of this." We set an appointment for a week or so hence. She got back with me and said, "I asked what Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked her what Delta was and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told her about some of this stuff for a two-hour consult. She called back and she said, "This seemed too fantastic. I heard this and I thought, 'Has Cory been working too hard?'" she said, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but she said, "I held you in high professional regard, but this just sounded so off in the twilight zone that I really thought, 'Is he having a nervous breakdown or something?'" She said, "But I respected you enough to ask about this." She said, "I asked another MPD patient and she didn't have any of this."

So in this patient she started describing things and how she worked, for example, with an erasure and she was describing things like robots vaporizing and kinds of things. She said, "I hadn't told her about any of these things." Well, here's the problem. There are different layers and I think some of them are designed to keep us going in circles forever. They figured we probably, in most cases, wouldn't get below the alters which they purposefully created.

The way you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the mind. It's part of what the Intelligence Community wanted to look at. If you're going to get an assassin, you're going to get somebody to go do something, you divide the mind. It fascinates me about cases like the assassination of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard Diamond, on examining Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of the killing of Robert Kennedy, but under hypnosis could remember it. But despite suggestions he would be able to consciously remember, could not remember a thing after was out of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan Sirhan.

It appears that below this we've got some other layers. One is called "Green Programming" it appears. Isn't it interesting that the doctor's name is Dr. Green? One of the questions in a way that does not contaminate is after I've identified some of this stuff is there and they've given me a few right answers about what some of it is, "If there were a doctor associated with this programming and his name were a color, you know, like Dr. Chartreuse or something, if his name were a color, what color would the color be?" Now once in a while I've had some other colors mentioned in about three or four patients that I felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I don't really believe had this. In one case I got another color and I found out later it was a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained by Dr. Green almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the programming of this woman under this doctor.

I remember one woman couldn't come up with anything. No alter would speak up with anything. I said, "Okay," and we went on to some other material. About two minutes later she said, "Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this all over. There appears to be some Green Programming below that and I suspect that you get down to fewer and more central programs the deeper you go. Well, all Green Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic mysticism is mixed all into this. If you're going to work with this you need to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala. One is by a man named Dion Fortune called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion Fortune. Another is by Ann Williams-Heller and it's called "The Kabbalah." I knew nothing about the Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in my waiting area, got there considerably early and drew a detailed multicolored Cabalistic Tree over two years ago. It took me two months to figure out what it was. Finally, showing it to somebody else who said, "You know? That looks an awful lot like the Cabala Tree" and that rang a bell with some esoteric in an old book and I dug it out. That was the background of Dr. Green.

Now the interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original name was Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German? Green Tree, Ultra-Tree and the Green Tree. I've also had patients who didn't appear to know that his original name was Greenbaum, volunteered that there were parts inside named Mr. Greenbaum. Now let me give you some information about parts inside that may be helpful to you if you're going to inquire about these things, because my experience is one part will give you some information and either run dry or get defensive or scared and stop, and so you punt and you make an end run and you come around the other direction, you find another part.

I'll tell you several parts to ask for and ask if there's a part by this name. And, by the way, when I'm screening patients and fiddling around with this, I throw in a bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is there a part inside by this name and by that name" as a check on whether or not it appears genuine. For example. "In addition to the core," I ask, "is there a part inside named Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part of the Cabalistic Tree. Wisdom, I've often found, will be helpful and give you a lot of information. "Is there a part inside named Diana?" I mean I may throw in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named Zelda?" I've never encountered one yet! Just to see what kind of answers we get.

I try to do this carefully. Diana is a part that, in the Cabalistic system, is associated with a part called the Foundation. You will be fascinated to know that. Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski's wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family who were associated with the Process Church? A lot of prominent people in Hollywood were associated and then they went underground, the books say, in about seventy-eight and vanished? Well, they're alive and well in southern Utah. We have a thick file in the Utah Department of Public Safety documenting that they moved to southern Utah, north of Monument Valley, bought a movie ranch in the desert, renovated it, expanded it, built a bunch of buildings there, carefully monitored so that very few people go out of there and no one can get in and changed their name.

A key word in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation. There are some other words. The Foundation is part of the Tree. So you can ask, "Is there something inside known as The Foundation?" I might ask other things to throw people off. "Is there something known as the Sub-Basement?" Well, maybe they'll conceive of something. Or "Is there something known as the Walls?" There are a variety of questions you can come up with, to sort of screen some things. I've also found that there will often be a part called "Black Master," a part called "Master Programmer," and that there will be computer operators inside.

How many of you have come into computer things in patients? There will typically be computer operators: Computer Operator Black, Computer Operator Green, Computer Operator Purple. Sometimes they'll have numbers instead, sometimes they'll be called Systems Information Directors. You can find out the head one of those. There'll be a source of some information for you. I will ask inside, "Is there a part inside named Dr. Green?" You'll find that there are, if they have this kind of programming, in my experience. Usually with a little work and reframing, you can turn them and help them to realize that they were really a child-part who's playing a role and they had no choice then, but they do now. You know, they played their role very, very well, but they don't have to continue to play it with you because they're safe here and in fact, "If the Cult simply found out that you talked to me, that they you had shared information with me, you tell me what would they do to you?" Emphasize that the only way out is through me and that they need to cooperate and share information and help me and that I'll help them.

So all these parts can give you various information. Now they have tried to protect this very carefully. Let me give you an example with Ultra-Green. I discovered this -- by the way I used to think this programming was only in bloodline people. I've discovered it in non-bloodline people, but it's a bit different. They don't want it to be just the same. I don't think you'll find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably not even Green Programming with non-bloodline people. But let me tell you something that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and then in a bloodline.

We were going along and a patient was close to getting well, approaching final integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly started hallucinating and her fingers were becoming hammers and other things like that. So I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found that what happened was that they gave suggestions, that if she ever got well to a certain point she would go crazy. The way they did this was they strapped her down and they gave her LSD when she was eight years old. When she began hallucinating they inquired about the nature of the hallucinations so they could utilize them in good Ericsonian fashion and build on them and then combine the drug-effect with powerful suggestions. "If you ever get to this point you will go crazy. If you ever get fully integrated and get well you will go crazy like this and will be locked up in an institution for the rest of your life. They gave those suggestions vigorously and repetitively.

Finally they introduced other suggestions that, "Rather than have this happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself." In a bloodline patient then, as I began inquiring about deep material, the patient started to experience similar symptoms. We went back and we found the identical things were done to her.

This was called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting internal consistencies like that play on words with Dr. Greenbaum, his original name. Now in this case it was done to her at age nine for the first time and then only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for amnesia. "If you ever remember anything about Ultra-Green and the Green Tree you will go crazy. You will become a vegetable and be locked up forever." Then finally the suggestions added, "And it'll be easier to just kill yourself than have that happen to you, if you ever remember it." At age twelve then, three years later, they used what sounds like an Amytol interview to try to breach the amnesia and find out if they could. They couldn't. So then they strapped her down again, took and gave her something to kind of paralyze her body, gave her LSD, an even bigger dose and reinforced all the suggestions. Did a similar thing at the age of sixteen.

So these are some of the kind of booby traps you run into. There are a number of cases where they combined powerful drug effects like this with suggestions to keep us from discovering some of this deeper level stuff. What's the bottom? Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that I've had a lot of therapists who were stymied with these cases who were going nowhere. In fact someone here that I told some basic information about this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it opened all sorts of things up in a patient who'd been going nowhere.

That's an often common thing. I think that we can move down to deeper levels and if we deal with some of the deeper level stuff it may destroy all the stuff above it. But we don't even know that yet. In some of the patients I'm working with we have pretty much dealt with a lot of the top-level stuff.

I'll tell you how we've done some of that. We'll take and erase one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction of all the memories and feelings in a fractionated abreaction associated with those parts. I typically find I'll say to them, "Now that we've done this are there any other memories and feelings that any parts that were Omega still have?" The answer's usually "No."

At that point I will say, "I usually find at this point in time the majority, if not all, of those parts that used to be Omega no longer feel a desire or need to be different, realizing that you split off originally by them and want to go home to Mary and become one with her again." I use the concept often now -- which came from a patient -- of going home and becoming one with her. "Going back from whence you came" is another phrase I'll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts inside who do not feel comfortable with that or have reservations or concerns about that?" If there are we talk to them. We deal with them. A few may not integrate. My experience is most of the time they'll integrate and we may integrate twenty-five parts at once in a polyfragmented complex MPD.

I think it is vitally important to abreact the feelings before you go on. Also for many patients it hasn't seemed to matter the order we go in but I've found a couple where it has. If it doesn't seem to matter I'll typically go Omega, then Delta because they have more violence potential, then Gamma to get rid of the self-deception stuff. What I will do before I just assume anything and do that, is once we've done Omega and showed them that success can occur and something can happen and they feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want to ask the core -- through the fingers -- is there a specific order in which programs must be erased?" You know maybe it doesn't matter but most of the time I found "No." There are cases where we found "Yes."

I recommend doing one or two or three of those because they'll produce relief and and a sense of optimism in the patient. But then I would recommend starting to probe for the deeper level things and getting their input and recommendations about the order in which we go.

[soulja]

and the following interview

Question?

Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender of this type of person?

Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women. Most of the patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being treated are women, however. I know of some men being treated where we've found this. A while back I was talking to a small group of therapists somewhere. I told them about some of this. In the middle of talking about some of this all the color drained out of one social worker's face and she obviously had a reaction and I asked her about and she said, "I'm working with a five-year-old boy," and she said, "Just in the last few weeks he was saying something about a Dr. Green." I went on a little further and I mentioned some of these things and she just shook her head again. I said, "What's going on?" She said, "He's been spontaneously telling me about robots and about Omega." I think you will find variations of this and that they've changed it, probably every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to throw us off in various ways but that certain basics and fundamentals will probably be there. I have seen this in people up into their forties including people whose parents were very, very high in the CIA, other sorts of things like that. I've had some that were originally part of the Monarch Project which is the name of the government Intelligence project.

Question in the back?

Q: I'm still not grasping how one starts, how you find out how to erase. How do you get that information?

Dr.H: I would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using the telepathic communication ability you have to read minds," because they believe in that kind of stuff, "so I'll use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian stuff, "...to obtain for me the erasure code of all Omega programs. When you've done so, I want the yes-finger to float up." Then I ask them to tell it to me. "Are there backups for Omega programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How many backups are there?" "Six," they say, let's say. It's different numbers. "Is there an erasure code for all the backup programs?" "No." "Is there an erasure code that combines all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain that code for me and when you've go it give me the yes-signal again." It can move almost that fast in some cases where there's not massive resistance.

Question?

Q: Yes, can you tell me what you know about the risks to the therapist? [Laughter]

Dr.H: You would have to ask.

Q: Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you have given that you've had contact with large numbers of people. Not just threats but also any injury, any family problems that have arisen. That's one question. A second one is are you aware of anybody that you've treated -- or others -- with this level of dissociation and trauma that have recovered? Integrated? Whole and happy?

Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple who had this kind of programming where they have a lot of access to the patient as neighbors and where the doctor, by the way, you'll find physicians heavily involved. They've encouraged their own to go to medical school, to prescribe drugs to take care of their own, to get access to medical technology and be above suspicion. There have been a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed now. We now in Utah have two full time ritual-abuse investigators with statewide jurisdiction under the Attorney General's Office to do nothing but investigate this. [Applause] Okay? In a poll done in the State of Utah in January by the major newspaper and television station, they found that ninety percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse is genuine and real. Not all of them believe it's a frequent occurrence but some of that was imparted from two years of work by the Governor Commission on Ritual Abuse, interviewing, talking, meeting people, gathering data. Now when people say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've never found a body," that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of a child. They've had a case last summer that was convicted on first-degree murder charges, two people that the summer before that were arrested where the teenaged girl's finger and head were in the refrigerator and they were convicted of first-degree murder in Detroit. There have been cases and bodies. Back to risk. I know of no therapist who's been harmed. But patients inform us that there will come a future time where we could be at risk of being assassinated by patients who've been programmed to kill at a certain time anyone that they've told and any member of their own family who's not active. If that would come about is speculative. Who knows for sure? Maybe, but I don't think it's entirely without risk.

A question in the back?

Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity between these kinds of programming and those people who claim that they've been abducted by spaceships and have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don't think that they've reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering is there any sort of relationship between this and that?

Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from others really. I've not dealt with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I know and trust and respect who I've informed about all this a couple of years ago and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims who have been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy all their credibility. If somebody's coming in and reporting abduction by a flying sauce who's going to believe them on anything else in the future? Also as a kind of thing that can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as that." All I know is that I recently had a consult, a telephone consult, with a therapist where I had been instructing her about some of this kind of stuff. When we were consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth interview she said, "By the way, do you know anything about this topic?" I said, "Well, not really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I said, "If it were me being with this guy..." that she'd been seeing for a couple of months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to take control of finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta." She proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later and said, "Boy, were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There's this kind of programming."

Yes?

Q: What's the difference between this kind of program and cult-type abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the candles and the...

Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the cults with the candles and all the rest. My impression is this is simply done in people where they have great access to them or they're bloodline and their parents are in it and they can be raised in it from an early age. If they are bloodline they are the chosen generation. If not, they're expendable and they are expected to die and not get well. There will be booby traps in your way if they aren't non-bloodline people that when they get well they will kill themselves. I'll tell you just a little about that. My belief is that some people that have ritual abuse and don't have this have been ritually abused but they may be may be part of a non-mainstream group. The Satanism comes in the overall philosophy overriding all of this. People say, "What's the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose of it is that they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of thousands of mental robots who will do prostitution, do child pornography, smuggle drugs, engage in international arms smuggling, do snuff films, all sorts of very lucrative things and do their bidding and eventually the megalomaniacs at the top believe they'll create a Satanic Order that will rule the world.

One last question. Then I'll give you couple of details and we need to shift gears.

Q: You have suggested and implied that at some point at a high level of the U.S. Government there was support of this kind of thing. I know we're short of time, but could you just say a few words about the documentation that may exist for that suggestion?

Dr.H: There isn't great documentation of it. It comes from victims who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting thing is how many people have described the same scenario and how many people that we have worked with who have had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military, including very high-ups in the Military.

I can tell you that a friend and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent of half the table space on that far side of the room filled with boxes with declassified documents from mind-control research done in the past which has been able to be declassified over a considerable -- couple of decades -- period and has read more government documents about mind control than anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent in the past week and a half asking for all information to be declassified about the Monarch Project for us to try to find out more.

Now let me just mention something about some of the stuff that my experience is in several patients now that you may run into late in the process. I know I'm throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely foreign and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this be true?" Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients and you may be lucky and there isn't any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run into some things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my pen, the system in one patient. One patient I had treated for quite a while, a non-bloodline person. We had done what appeared to be successful work and reached final integration. She came back to me early last year and said she was symptomatic with some things. I started inquiring. I found a part there we'd integrated. The part basically said, "There was other stuff that I couldn't tell you about and you integrated me and so I had to split off." I had done some inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine part of it and found they were there and I said to this part, "Why didn't you tell me about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some hints but they went right over your head." Says, "I'm sorry, but we know that you didn't know enough to help us but now we know you can." So the stuff started coming out. It was interesting. She described the overall system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like this.

The circle represented harm to the body, a system of alters whose primary purpose was to hurt her including symptoms like Munchhausen's, self-mutilation, other kinds of things. Each of the triangles represented still another different system. She said, "With the exception of me," this one part, "you dealt with the whole circle with the work that we did before but you didn't touch the rest of the stuff." Okay. In the middle of all this was still another system consisting of the Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware, looks approximately like this with lines in between and so on and so forth. There's a rough approximation. That represented another system. Then once we got past that she implied that this entire thing was somehow encompassed by, what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we were at final integration then I'd find some other parts. This person had an eagle-eye husband that was watching for certain things that we found to be reliable indicators. So often I would get evidence of dissociation within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up.

You know, what we found was I continued to find evidence of dissociation and I'd find parts. Finally this part, as I got angry with him and said, "Why when I give these ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied to?" This part said, "Because you don't understand. You're going to get us all killed." We started talking and then she basically said, "It's been programmed so that if you succeed and think you've succeeded, you will fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at you, that if you ever get us integrated, we will die.

" Here's what she said, this part said, "I'm one of twelve disciples," and I've seen this in others, twelve disciples within this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind of premises, philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt you, hate those who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be two or three sentences like that associated with each that they had to memorize them. They said, "We are like grains of sand falling and when the last grain of sand falls, there's Death." I said, "Is Death a part?" "Yes. When the last grain of sand falls the Sleeping Giant awakens." The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to kill them on Day-One or Day-Six after awakening unless certain things were followed and we did some of those. Well we also found Death had a sister as a backup, used with mirrors to create the sister part. We had to get past and deal with that too. Death had certain things that they said had to be done to integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they said you'd say. They said that no doctor would ever believe that they had to go these extremes to get us well and that's part of the reason they'd fail." I said, "Well, tell me, tell me again." She said, "I have to be dressed all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol. A code has to be given and it has to be in a room that's totally dark. It has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's been awakened." I said what I'd have to lose?

I had a psychiatrist give her a little Demerol. We used the code. My office didn't have any windows anyway. It was pretty easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles lit. Well, fine. So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would have gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided not to take the chance and to trust the patient maybe.

Well, so we go on and then we find another part. There's Death And Destruction, another backup also with a sister that we had to get through. In fact, I think there were two backups there. Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely nice part, made especially that way so that they wouldn't want to lose them because they would be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that they wouldn't want to maybe get rid of them. Then we found that she continued to have these feelings with this last part left now of darkness and blackness inside.

What did we find? A curtain. She said, "They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you would," and along the way, by the way, we had encountered this stuff about the LSD stuff, the Green Bomb programming. The message was that she said, "There is a curtain behind which are the remaining feelings and memories, but it can't be opened from the middle. It's like a stage curtain. It has to opened this way," that it can't be opened. They assumed that you would try to deal with all the feelings. That can't be opened until you've dealt with that last part and they've integrated. So far it looks like we've got integration that's holding. So I found Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in non-bloodline. "The Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed me, "were made of sand because we were meant to die. We're expendable. We're the unchosen generation." I've heard variously that it's crystals or blood that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people.

By the way, you can do real simple things like turn the Hourglass on its side so nothing can fall out, so time stands still to be able to do certain kinds of work. Spread the grains of sand on the seashore so that they can't be numbered and the time will not be counted. Got that idea from a ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of this kind of programming done that another therapist was seeing. So those would be just a few other hints about things that may be helpful or meaningful. We're talking about very intensive things and at deep levels to to me this give us two things.

One thing it gives to me is hope because it gets to material and it makes progress like nothing else we've ever seen with these people who have it. The second thing it does for me is it demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago I had a pretty good idea about the extent and breadth of what they'd one to these victims, I had no real appreciation for the depth and breadth and intensity of what they'd done.

I want to come back to the other question over here now. The other question is how many of them can get well? We don't know. In most things in the mental health profession we accept two-thirds of the patients are going to improve, maybe seventy percent. There's very little we can get everybody well. I think one of the sad things we have to face is that many of these patients will probably never be well. My personal belief is that if they are being messed with their only hope of getting well is if they can somehow get out of contact. Now I know patients who've gone to other states and simply had deep-level alters pick up the phone and call and said, "This is our new address and phone number" so that they could be picked up locally. I mean in an inpatient unit for an extended period of time. If they are in a Cult from their area and they are still being monitored and messed with, my own personal opinion is we can't get them well and can't offer more than humanitarian caring and supportiveness.

Lots of therapists do not like to hear that. That's my opinion. I believe that if somehow they're lucky enough to be wealthy enough to have protection, to have somehow gotten away in some way and we can work with them without being messed with, that they have a chance to reach some semblance of normality and livability with enough intensive work. My own personal belief is I don't think anybody with this kind of programming is well in this country yet. There are some who are well along the way. I've got a couple who are well along in their work and have done a tremendous amount, but they're clearly not well yet.

Q: Could you speculate on the relationship between this stuff and the fantasy games that have been proliferating, Dungeons and Dragons and that sort of thing?

Dr.H: Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue people. You want to see a great movie, interesting movie, to cue people? Go see "Trancers II." You can rent it in your video shop. Came out last fall. One night in sheer desperation for something at the video store, you know? Nine o'clock on Friday night. Everything's gone. I rented a couple of movies and one of them is that. Fascinating. They're talking about Green World Order. Yes, "Trancers II." And who is the production company? Full Moon Productions. I couldn't see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who's the production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions. There are lots of things around that are cuing. There's an interesting person in the late sixties who talked about the Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard of the Illuminati with regard to the Cult? Had a patient bring that up to me just about exactly two years ago. We've now had other stuff come out from other patients. Appears to be the name of the international world leadership. There appear to be Illuminatic Counsels in several parts of the world and one internationally. The name of the international leadership of the Cult supposedly. Is this true? well, I don't know. It's interesting we're getting some people who are trying to work without cuing who are saying some very similar things. There was an old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati. Certainly what some patients have said is all of this spook stuff, horror stuff, possession and everything else that's been popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood is in order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized to so many of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people out there. is that true? Well, I can't definitely tell you that it is. What I can say is I now believe that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very organized from highly esoteric information which is published nowhere, has not been on any book or talk show, that we have found all around this country and at least one foreign country.

Let's take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to other material. Yes?

Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level of uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still tampered with, "messed with," as you said?

Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I've inquired about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I would ask about these sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back?

Q: I wonder if you've heard or you know of the Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: The what?

Q: Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll give you one other quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There's an identification code that people have. It will involve their birth date. It may involve places where they were programmed and it will usually involve a number in there that will be their birth order, like zero-two if they were second-born. It will usually involve a number that represents the number of generations in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I've seen up to twelve now, twelve generations.

Q: I have seen a lot of the things you've been describing today in several patients. I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven Systems. You mentioned something about systems here. Are there Seven Systems?

Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, yes, the Seven Systems.

Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram?

Dr.H: I don't think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.

Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people have been tagged and there have been anything of their body-parts that might be related to this, private parts in particular?

Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that have had a variety of other kinds of things, some of which have been, you know, documented in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves or had it done consciously to really prove something, not that occurs to right off the bat.

Let me just take this one last question back and we need to go on to other material because we're never going to get through it all. I'll just ask you to hold your question.

Q: It's not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally, and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very sincerely for taking this time to come forward. [Applause]

Dr.H: Well, [Applause]

Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this material? It's wonderful. [Sustained applause]

Dr.H: A dear friend who's one of the top people in the field, who I know has had death threats, but I know struggled for professional credibility in believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even believing in that ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows it's true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow it was an international conspiracy and I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow that it is an urban myth and rumor." He tries to stay right on the fence and the reason is because it's controversial, because there is a campaign underway saying these all false memories induced by, along with incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive therapists using hypnosis. It's controversial. My personal opinion has come to be if they're going to kill me, they're going to kill me. There's going to be an awful lot of information that's been put away that'll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope, that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very large-scale investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of moral conscience at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten enough verification from independent places to have some real confidence that this was widespread.

I know we've gone like a house afire to try to pack as much as I could in for you. I hope it's given you some things to think about and some new ideas and I appreciate being with you.

[soulja]

great post cheeb, also note how they only show us one eye of De Niro on the Taxi driver Cover.

[hunkahunka]

Hi

massive destruction as consequences of dream / sleep / rest
too many snakes.... medusa like imagery. violence, a dead child? Again. :confused: some kind of cat-o-nine-tails, looks like small (baby?) skulls too me, but I could just be needing glasses ;)
weather / explosions, knock on effects of fire / destruction (domino?)
genetics / breeding. Replaying of time backwards. trees.

apart from that, nothing much :D

what did you see?

brown.

I saw that maybe Cheeb is onto something, with the 'mushroom trip'
nuclear bomb reference to MK trauma programming. There is nuclear
bomb footage throughout the Nirvana France Farmer video.
Maybe they used the threat of nuclear war as a trauma trigger in projects
like Frances Farmer and Anna Nicole Smith? Its just such a coincidence
that Cheeb mentioned it so recently in association with another mk project
and I see it here now. There are also mushroom clouds on the Tommy Pinball machine.
I also saw a lot of scenes referring to trauma of sleeping women, sleep walking, hanging,
monsters etc.

[brown velvet]

I saw that maybe Cheeb is onto something, with the 'mushroom trip'
nuclear bomb reference to MK trauma programming. There is nuclear
bomb footage throughout the Nirvana France Farmer video.
Maybe they used the threat of nuclear war as a trauma trigger in projects
like Frances Farmer and Anna Nicole Smith? Its just such a coincidence
that Cheeb mentioned it so recently in association with another mk project
and I see it here now. There are also mushroom clouds on the Tommy Pinball machine.
I also saw a lot of scenes referring to trauma of sleeping women, sleep walking, hanging, monsters etc.

hi :)

ok, *thinks* the diff here is, that you are far more aware of the 'bigger triggers' (general population targets) than I am, as in, world influence as opposed to indivdual trauma meanings to those who are MC survivors. All the references to weather / storm / violence / nuclear are also used to 're-build' Internal landscapes / minds eye cinema 'views'

brown.

[brown velvet]

http://www.answers.com/topic/curious-fragrance

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r475/orangebrownvelvet/britneyspearsCurious.jpg

brown.

[soulja]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oUZdxBQrL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
boy on the left makes the sign of silence (no talk trigger)

Still mourning the death of her mother a few years back, ALICE McKINLEY finds her life seriously disrupted when her father BEN buys a store and moves her and her older brother LESTER to a new town. In the painful throes of adolescence, Alice has a rough time adjusting to her new school, especially after she gets the stern MRS. PLOTKIN as her core teacher. Feeling shy and isolated, Alice frequently escapes into a vivid fantasy life that occasionally gets her into hot water. But with a little unexpected help from Mrs. Plotkin, Alice learns not to judge by appearances or jump to conclusions. More importantly, she confronts her father over his inability to accept their loss and move on into the future…

her surname is a code for bloodline Mc - Kin - Ley

[lizzy]

and the following interview

They brought them to the United States. Along with them was a young boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and a background of Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people in the Cult because at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not earlier.

I suspect it may have formed some bond between them. But he saved his skin by collaborating and being an assistant to them in the death-camp experiments. They brought him with them. They started doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military hospitals in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors, were Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized it some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this work that appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His name is known to patients throughout the country...

----------------------------------------------
'Holywood' is controlled by satanists.........who have manipulated for thousands for years.....the UN is satantic, with the chip, psychic driving is possible too. Sorry i cannot refer to detail, it is just too upsetting.

[lizzy]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oUZdxBQrL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
boy on the left makes the sign of silence (no talk trigger)



her surname is a code for bloodline Mc - Kin - Ley

and from the synopsis the plot stinks.......don't deal with reality , go off into make believe, this is usual at 5,6,7 but not as a teenager.......

....and Dad, screw the greiving process , bury it and find another NOW.

[emerald]

Haim Blames Addiction On Abuse

Eighties child star Corey Haim has blamed his addiction to alcohol on being sexually abused as a child.

Haim and Corey Feldman both admitted they had been molested by different men when they were just 14 on a recent episode of their U.S. reality TV show Two Coreys.

And Haim - who claims he has been sober for 10 months - says the abuse led him to a battle with alcohol and has accused Feldman of failing to support him.

He says, "(Feldman) said to me, 'I'll always have your back.' But he knew there was a rape issue going on with me for about two years, and what did he do about it? Nothing."

But Feldman says Haim is playing the "blame game" and refuses to speak to him until he sobers up.



He tells People.com, "As a friend and somebody that cares deeply about the guy, I'm not going to watch him destroy himself.

"I think that he needs to demonise somebody. As a 14-year-old, how could I be responsible for actions that happened between him and another person?"

[mrguitarbear]

Britney Spears went to a hair salon called ' Esthers ' ( owned by Esther Tognozzi ) on 16th February 2007 and shaved off her own hair with an electric shaver.

' Esther ' is of course Madonna's Kabbala name.

Its my belief that Britney was making a direct statement to Madonna , saying that she didn't belong to her anymore.

Britney also has had the Kabbala tattoo she had done in 2004 removed from the nape of her neck.

Britney Shaves her Head (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17197876/)

[cheeb]

Taxi Driver

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4791/taxidriverzq6.jpg
One Eye And Ruby Slippered Lolita,Fragmented Image..

I Knew That Jody Foster Had A Connection,
With M.K. Victim Hinkley,
Travis Bickle/Arthur Bremner
Is A Very Interesting Connection....

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3050/carnytaxidriverue4.jpg
Travis Bickle, Shaved Head, MK Assassin...!!!!

I Found This On You Tube....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o71ClFEDEY

It Might Seem A Bit OTT,
But I Have Been Present At The Filming Of A Movie,
That Took Over 8 Hours,
The Scene Was In The Film For About 5 Seconds
Hollywood Pay Very Close Attention To Detail....

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2294/catcherft3.jpg
Notice The Twin Towers And The Red Hat,
Reminiscent Of Don't Look Now...,
Or The Red Figure In The Otherwise Black And White Schindlers List..

The reference to “The Catcher in the Rye” was taken from real life, for Mark David Chapman, the assassin of ex-Beatle John Lennon, had a paperback edition of the book in his possession when the police arrived and found him standing "very calmly"– as if he too was a mind-controlled assassin, having completed his task, and now aimlessly standing about, waiting to be arrested as the “lone gunman”? But Chapman was not alone: John Hinckley was also reported to have been obsessed with the book and as both “lone gunmen” were considered by some to be coming of the MK-ULTRA robotic assassin production line, the book was soon interpreted as a “driver” in their mind control

As to Hinckley: he claimed that he had repeatedly watched the 1976 movie Taxi Driver, in which a disturbed man plots to assassinate a presidential candidate – a story in line with The Manchurian Candidate, which has similar themes of MK-ULTRA worked into it. The disturbed man in Taxi Driver was inspired by real-life would-be assassin Arthur Herman Bremer, who shot US Democratic presidential candidate George Wallace on May 15, 1972 in Laurel, Maryland, leaving him paralyzed for life – and in practice guaranteeing the re-election of Richard Nixon for his ill-fated second term..

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5776/carnymothen8.jpg
Notice The Butterfly Motif,
On The Microphone
Hollywood Pay Very Close Attention To Detail...

That same obsession is found between Hinckley and Jodie Foster. When Foster entered Yale University, Hinckley moved to New Haven, Connecticut to be nearer to her, slipping poems and messages under her door and repeatedly contacting her by telephone. Failing to develop any meaningful contact with her, he developed such plots as hijacking an airplane and committing suicide in front of her in order to gain her attention. Eventually he settled on a scheme to win her over by assassinating the president, on the theory that by becoming a historical figure, he would be her equal. It sounds mad, but then we are assumed to believe he was mad, so… He trailed then-president Jimmy Carter from state to state, but was arrested in Nashville, Tennessee on a firearms charge. Penniless, he returned home and despite psychiatric treatment for depression, his mental health did not improve. In 1981, he began to target the new president, Ronald Reagan, and apparently began to collect information on Lee Harvey Oswald, whom he saw as a role model. Of course, that’s the official version and there are several conspiracy theories, one, as mentioned, asking whether Hinckley was a robotic assassin…

Arthur Bremner

The attempted assassin of Governor George Wallace of Alabama was described
in the media as a deranged loner, but he wasn't alone at all if you count
the involvement of the CIA and the Nixon/Watergate "plumbers" who figure
prominently in this case. (It has been suggested that George Wallace's
political campaign could potentially have taken too many votes away from
rival presidential candidate Richard Nixon if Wallace was allowed to stay in
the presidential race. He was conveniently eliminated by Arthur Bremer).

On Monday, May 15, 1972, Bremer attempted to assassinate George Wallace at a
campaign rally in Laurel, Maryland. According to researchers, within one
hour after the Wallace shooting, Nixon aide Charles Colson, having invented
a ruse to place blame for the shooting on radical extremists of the left
wing, ordered Watergate "plumber" E. Howard Hunt to break into Bremer's
apartment and plant Black Panther and Angela Davis literature there.
(Bremer, however, had political convictions leaning towards the extreme
right. None other than George Wallace himself stated that he wondered how
members of Nixon's staff had found Bremer's apartment so quickly after the
shooting.)

But this "loner" actually had quite a few friends. One of these friends,
Dennis Cassini, turned up mysteriously dead in the trunk of his own car
before he could be questioned. The FBI didn't even bother to investigate
his death. According to The Milwaukee Journal: "The former Wisconsin College
Republican State Chairman said (that) Donald Segretti, confessed political
spy and Republican saboteur in the 1972 presidential campaign, urged him to
recruit persons in Wisconsin to do dirty tricks to embarrass the Democrats."

Arthur Bremer was from Milwaukee. Records show that Bremer traveled
extensively while stalking Wallace on his campaign trail, staying in
expensive hotels, running up debts totaling $5,000 dollars, which he paid.
Quite unusual for a busboy whose total earnings were under $2,000 dollars
for the entire year. Bremer was also identified prior to the assassination
as the man seen accompanying Watergate-operative Anthony Ulasewicz in
Michigan. (The personality revealed by Bremer's diary was used as a source
for the character of Travis Bickle in the original screenplay of the movie
Taxi Driver, which would, curiously, later drive John Hinckley in his own
presidential assassination attempt).

Bremer was sentenced to 63 years in prison and has never given any
explanation as to why he shot Wallace.

Mark David Chapman
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5224/markdavidchapmanmugsmalrz3.jpg

Yet another "lone nut" assassin who killed "leftist" John Lennon in New York
City on December 8, 1980.

Chapman had possible ties to the CIA as a former World Vision Employee.
(World Vision Missionaries is an "international evangelical order" that has
performed espionage work for CIA). Allegedly, while working for World
Vision, Chapman was trained in terrorist infested, war-torn Beruit as a
"security guard".

Less than four months before John Hinckley Jr. attempted to gun down Reagan,
Chapman shot and killed John Lennon in what may have been a practice run for
Hinckley's later assassination attempt on Reagan.

After shooting Lennon, Chapman sat down and calmly began reading from The
Catcher in the Rye, a novel by J.D. Salinger. (Interestingly, J.D. Salinger,
author of "Catcher" served in the Counter Intelligence Corps during WWII
with Henry Kissinger. Others have theorized that this book served as some
sort of post-hypnotic suggestion or program "trigger"). Chapman himself
claims that he killed Lennon to promote the reading of "Catcher in the Rye,"
yet according to those who knew him, Chapman never exhibited strong feeling
about the book until just prior to the shooting.

After shooting Lennon, Chapman sat down and calmly began reading from The
Catcher in the Rye, a novel by J.D. Salinger. (Interestingly, J.D. Salinger,
author of "Catcher" served in the Counter Intelligence Corps during WWII
with Henry Kissinger. Others have theorized that this book served as some
sort of post-hypnotic suggestion or program "trigger"). Chapman himself
claims that he killed Lennon to promote the reading of "Catcher in the Rye,"
yet according to those who knew him, Chapman never exhibited strong feeling
about the book until just prior to the shooting.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7352/hinkleygun2ww7.jpg
John Hinckley, Jr.

The attempted lone nut assassin of Ronald Reagan,

Stalker Of Jodie Foster...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1640/carnylambskw8.jpg
One Eye,Sign Of Silence-No Talk Trigger,
And Butterfly...

Incidentally There Is Another Subliminal Here

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4062/daliskullxg3.jpg
Skull Orgy
Salvadore Dali-In Voluptate Mors

Like Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley, Jr. also had a copy of Catcher in
the Rye in his possession when apprehended. According to official reports,
Hinckley was also heavily "influenced" by the Travis Bickle character from
the Martin Scorcese film Taxi Driver. (In this film, Robert DeNiro plays an
obsessed gunman who plans to assassinate a presidential candidate, a
character that was inspired by Arthur Bremer's personal diary).

Like Arthur Bremer, Hinckley traveled extensively around the U.S., and prior
to his assassination attempt on Reagan, was arrested at the airport in
Nashville, Tennessee with three handguns. Curiously, Hinckley was not placed
under any surveillance after this incident. And in emulation of both Sirhan
Sirhan and Bremer, Hinckley also kept a dairy in which he detailed his plans
for shooting Reagan.

There are reports that a Hinckley "double" named "Richardson" traced
Hinckley's path from Colorado to Connecticut, all the while writing letters
to Jodie Foster, just as the real Hinckley did. This Richardson was arrested
with a weapon at New York's Port Authority bus terminal, claiming he was
going to kill Reagan. Richardson and also had links to World Vision
Ministry. No less a figure than conspiracy queen Mae Brussel allegedly
spotted an apparent Hinckley double prior to the assassination attempt and
reported this to the Secret Service. (The Hinckley double's true name is
Edward Richardson, a person who looked amazingly like Hinckley).

One has to ask the obvious: what are the odds that two "unstable" men could
be obsessed with the same actress from the same film at the same time, while
"be