chaos magick

[thirdwave]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PPBR7PrMWOc

[empyblessing]

thank you for this :):):):)

[thirdwave]

no problem, he is an interesting guy ...got a few more clips on on youtube, I recommend them!

[vorador]

holy shit!! this is Grant fuckin Morrison! he's famous in the comic book world for being one of the top writers in the business. wow, can't say how interesting this all is. awesome find.

[thirdwave]

holy shit!! this is Grant fuckin Morrison! he's famous in the comic book world for being one of the top writers in the business. wow, can't say how interesting this all is. awesome find.

he knows the score big time mate... I can only imagine how on the level his comics are....

[empyblessing]

I've been making my own symbols for days and writing them all over my arms. :o

Using his advice I've created a symbol from WAKE UP and with a black marker wrote the symbol and the words Fluoride is Toxic Waste on a piece of paper. My plan is to attach this sign to all the store shelves in my area that sell fluoridated bottled water.

[thirdwave]

I've been making my own symbols for days and writing them all over my arms. :o

Using his advice I've created a symbol from WAKE UP and with a black marker wrote the symbol and the words Fluoride is Toxic Waste on a piece of paper. My plan is to attach this sign to all the store shelves in my area that sell fluoridated bottled water.

I read the thing behind it is about planting your own subliminals....

for example if you say to your self I am going to have sex with lucy... or I am going to enjoy the weekend....

then you can want to think it but during the time you start telling your self otherwise.... this is meant to plant it deep in your subcontious so you cant tell your self otherwise ... its obviously from the view point that our minds create reality.

Old school magicians like Crowley did not buy into it as much.. but that's because they were doing 6 month rituals and probably did not like to think there was a much quicker and cheaper method :), although Im not sure it has as much depth as others.

I'm sure there is something to it but would imagine more research is needed...

for example I have heard from one source that you should make the symbol... and then stare at it while having sex or masterbaiting... or ..hurt your self.... or think of something really emotional when you look at it.... they call it "Planting" (don't tell the christians)

then once you have planted some recommend destroying the sigil and not useing it for reference....

the idea is that you need to put your mind in a hightend state even for a spilt second where it takes in the sigil, so it is planted there.

it is how subliminal are worked on a large group of people, so it is bound to work if you wana do it on your self!, that's how i see it.

want to learn more about it before I get to stuck in...

I have just ordered this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Condensed-Chaos-Introduction-Magic/dp/156184117X/ref=pd_sim_b_img_1

[empyblessing]

Great. I was going to read some Crowley. Which book would you suggest for starting out?

[marpat]

Magick in theory and practise is a good one, plenty of stuff in there. I quite liked his Moonchild book, it is fiction based but does go into a lot of details on how stuff can be done.

If you have any specific ideas of what you are looking to do or what you want to read up on then just say and I might be able to suggest a suitable book.

I have a copy of Liber Chaos by Peter Carrol. Held my interest for a while but I dont really connect very well with this system.

[empyblessing]

Money. I want money. That's about it.

[marpat]

Money. I want money. That's about it.

I have a book which discuss grey magic and it might interest you. I will need to dig it out.

Although Crowley considered himself right hand path some of his ritual were specifically for money, which is supposed to be a selfish left handed method. One of the most basic methods is to use sexual energy. You stimulate yourself and at the point of orgams visualise your desired goal and to hold on to the heightened state of emotion for a long as possible while holding onto the image of the goal. Goes without saying that you need to make the image as simple as possible. many people are put off by using sexual methods but any form of magic uses the same energy that is manifest in sex.

[krakhead]

Great. I was going to read some Crowley. Which book would you suggest for starting out?

Magick in theory and practise is a good one, plenty of stuff in there. I quite liked his Moonchild book, it is fiction based but does go into a lot of details on how stuff can be done.

I agree with both of these suggestions, also 'Diary of a Drug Fiend', but I work in the substance misuse field so it may just be enjoyable to me cos of my work!

There's also Robert Anton Wilson's "The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles" Vols 1 to 3. I felt these were strongly influenced by Crowley's work and, like Crowley, RAW out a lot of very useful magickal info in them during the process of the story.

A sample can be read - here (http://www.rawilson.com/earthshake.html)

Although Crowley considered himself right hand path some of his ritual were specifically for money, which is supposed to be a selfish left handed method. One of the most basic methods is to use sexual energy. You stimulate yourself and at the point of orgams visualise your desired goal and to hold on to the heightened state of emotion for a long as possible while holding onto the image of the goal. Goes without saying that you need to make the image as simple as possible. many people are put off by using sexual methods but any form of magic uses the same energy that is manifest in sex.

I find sigilisation works really well when combined with sex magick - concentrate on the sigil at the time of orgasm - I seem to have had some strong results with this. Either alone (masturbation - sex with someone you love! ;) ) or painting the sigil on a partners body, make the whole 'session' a magickal ritual.

Some info on sigils -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(magic)

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/divsigilmagick.html

[marpat]

I agree with both of these suggestions, also 'Diary of a Drug Fiend', but I work in the substance misuse field so it may just be enjoyable to me cos of my work!

There's also Robert Anton Wilson's "The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles" Vols 1 to 3. I felt these were strongly influenced by Crowley's work and, like Crowley, RAW out a lot of very useful magickal info in them during the process of the story.

A sample can be read - here (http://www.rawilson.com/earthshake.html)



I find sigilisation works really well when combined with sex magick - concentrate on the sigil at the time of orgasm - I seem to have had some strong results with this. Either alone (masturbation - sex with someone you love! ;) ) or painting the sigil on a partners body, make the whole 'session' a magickal ritual.

Some info on sigils -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(magic)

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/divsigilmagick.html


I have Diary of drug fiend and think it is superb.

[thirdwave]

Great. I was going to read some Crowley. Which book would you suggest for starting out?

Crowley was so clued up about it... not always easy to read though as he was such a smart arse :)

I have just got MITAP from Ebay for £5....

[thirdwave]

Money. I want money. That's about it.

money or freedom and comfort?

[empyblessing]

I want to start with money and go from there. I'm going off of needs. I need oxygen. If someone strangles me I won't be thinking about how I need love in my life. If I'm starving I won't be thinking about how I need a new car. Consequently, I have a need for money both for myself and a completely selfless act of giving it to someone in need. There is rent to be paid, car insurance, internet bills etc. So my need now is money. Or maybe I can manifest a paid house and free internet. ;)

I listened to Grant's talk about money being useless, but until I obtain that level I'll have need of money. Food, shelter, internet are byproducts of cash.

I'm out for experience. I agree with what he said about this whole thing being about the experience of it all. Why else create? And I am determined to manifest some more interesting experiences then brainlessly going to work everyday for the rest of my life.

I don't believe in good or evil, light and darkness, or spiritual karma (the cause and effect kind I do however). I see these all as concepts for the "little people" initiated through religion to make people feel guilty over who they are, or fear from some coming judgement. My feelings on threefold law are, so be it. I'll experience that to and it won't be bad because I won't judge it.

Some see this stance of beyond good and evil as a catalyst for violence and pain. It isn't when it's paired with the knowledge that we are all one consciousness experiencing illusionary division separately. I can't harm someone without harming myself. Besides, it's nothing to do about violence but about realizing the true character free of guilt and shame.

Free of judgement. Free of sin. Free of evolution. Free of guilt. Free of karma. Free of enlightenment. Free of good. Free of evil. Free of fear. Free to be me, to exist, to be whatever I am.

Consider how judgment alone runs and ruins our lives. We are taught to judge everything, to place judgement over every act, deed, mishap, person, event and thing that we make contact with. By making judgement of good we give power to non-good or evil. We say, "What a good person." At the same time creating an evil person. It's seeped into everything most of us are. We judge the day, our sleep, a movie, a book, a webpage. We judge ourselves ruthlessly, our actions, our thoughts, our emotions. Many people claim to not be Christian but they're still living by some insane standard of forthcoming judgment which they must purge themselves of. Many here have learned of the corruption of religion, and influence of the Illuminati. So, isn't it possible that our very concept of good and evil were shaped by that entity to enslave us mentally?

David Icke and Alan Watt are right. The new Illuminati guilt trip is New Age. Another religion which handily combines all the guilt ridden, fear inducing aspects of all religions into one. All the light and darkness, good and evil, karma, spiritual growth, under one roof. It's the perfect religion for a New World Order of repressed individuals toiling endlessly in the mud. Judging by how prevalent it is, it's not going anywhere. Oprah is spewing it's teaching all over the air waves and it's not surprising it's taking so well. Let me say this clearly: New Age thought suffers largely from an overabundance of feminine energy. To put it another way, it's target audience is middle aged, middle class, white women.

I just desperately want to free myself.

My point is that I want to be done with guilt based religions, philosophies, thoughts and from my experience these come from judgment. Because it's the guilt free people who rule the world now, because they've freed themselves of useless hindrances like good and evil. They just exist. They just are. And from experience, in a totally non-judgmental way, they just are complete assholes. It's well past time that the non-assholes (:p) free themselves as well.

[marpat]

I want to start with money and go from there. I'm going off of needs. I need oxygen. If someone strangles me I won't be thinking about how I need love in my life. If I'm starving I won't be thinking about how I need a new car. Consequently, I have a need for money both for myself and a completely selfless act of giving it to someone in need. There is rent to be paid, car insurance, internet bills etc. So my need now is money. Or maybe I can manifest a paid house and free internet. ;)

I listened to Grant's talk about money being useless, but until I obtain that level I'll have need of money. Food, shelter, internet are byproducts of cash.

I'm out for experience. I agree with what he said about this whole thing being about the experience of it all. Why else create? And I am determined to manifest some more interesting experiences then brainlessly going to work everyday for the rest of my life.

I don't believe in good or evil, light and darkness, or spiritual karma (the cause and effect kind I do however). I see these all as concepts for the "little people" initiated through religion to make people feel guilty over who they are, or fear from some coming judgement. My feelings on threefold law are, so be it. I'll experience that to and it won't be bad because I won't judge it.

Some see this stance of beyond good and evil as a catalyst for violence and pain. It isn't when it's paired with the knowledge that we are all one consciousness experiencing illusionary division separately. I can't harm someone without harming myself. Besides, it's nothing to do about violence but about realizing the true character free of guilt and shame.

Free of judgement. Free of sin. Free of evolution. Free of guilt. Free of karma. Free of enlightenment. Free of good. Free of evil. Free of fear. Free to be me, to exist, to be whatever I am.

Consider how judgment alone runs and ruins our lives. We are taught to judge everything, to place judgement over every act, deed, mishap, person, event and thing that we make contact with. By making judgement of good we give power to non-good or evil. We say, "What a good person." At the same time creating an evil person. It's seeped into everything most of us are. We judge the day, our sleep, a movie, a book, a webpage. We judge ourselves ruthlessly, our actions, our thoughts, our emotions. Many people claim to not be Christian but they're still living by some insane standard of forthcoming judgment which they must purge themselves of. Many here have learned of the corruption of religion, and influence of the Illuminati. So, isn't it possible that our very concept of good and evil were shaped by that entity to enslave us mentally?

David Icke and Alan Watt are right. The new Illuminati guilt trip is New Age. Another religion which handily combines all the guilt ridden, fear inducing aspects of all religions into one. All the light and darkness, good and evil, karma, spiritual growth, under one roof. It's the perfect religion for a New World Order of repressed individuals toiling endlessly in the mud. Judging by how prevalent it is, it's not going anywhere. Oprah is spewing it's teaching all over the air waves and it's not surprising it's taking so well. Let me say this clearly: New Age thought suffers largely from an overabundance of feminine energy. To put it another way, it's target audience is middle aged, middle class, white women.

I just desperately want to free myself.

My point is that I want to be done with guilt based religions, philosophies, thoughts and from my experience these come from judgment. Because it's the guilt free people who rule the world now, because they've freed themselves of useless hindrances like good and evil. They just exist. They just are. And from experience, in a totally non-judgmental way, they just are complete assholes. It's well past time that the non-assholes (:p) free themselves as well.

Interesting bit of background. I don't think the ruling class are guilt free. The do so many things that are wrong that they must have to repress any sense of guilt or try and justify what they somehow, or perhaps try and distance themselves from the result of their decision so that it looks like it is not their fault.

I can see what has attracted you to Crowley though as he was quite a rebel and had a lot to say about the mental and spiritual state of Britain, although he did try to pass himself off as an English gentleman and snob. One of the things quoted in Crowleys work is freedom through disciple, which sounds contradictory but is really necesary.

Is the New Age anything at all? there has always been religious good and evil, etc. but during this new age people started getting access to the spiritual material from othe countries through people like the Beatles. When I started out on the path narly 20 years ago the new age did get a lot of mentions but I have not heard people talk about it for years, as if the initial impetus is dead, even in magic circles. A lot of people also think that the new age mindset is wishy-washy all positve and nothing can go wrong, but anybody who persists on the path to inner unfoldment will soon realise there is a lot of work to be done, decisions to be made (and not easy one!!). Most people who are not true to the core will just scuttle away and stick to doing their dowsing or something simple and stay at that level.

You are on the money by saying that non-christians still have the christian doom mentality. Perhaps this is in human nature or perhaps this sort of thing is used to frighten people into joining cults and religions, 'if you keep sinning you will all die. Oh you have all signed up so God will let you off'. Another thing is that if massive destruction hits us for doing wrong then what about all the batural life that done nothing except what nature made it do? I am at the point of not being bothered but such doomsday threats. Not only do they come and go but why life in fear of your future rather than making it better. If you fear an evil fate then will you not attract it?

[thirdwave]

I want to start with money and go from there. I'm going off of needs. I need oxygen. If someone strangles me I won't be thinking about how I need love in my life. If I'm starving I won't be thinking about how I need a new car. Consequently, I have a need for money both for myself and a completely selfless act of giving it to someone in need. There is rent to be paid, car insurance, internet bills etc. So my need now is money. Or maybe I can manifest a paid house and free internet. ;)

I listened to Grant's talk about money being useless, but until I obtain that level I'll have need of money. Food, shelter, internet are byproducts of cash.

I'm out for experience. I agree with what he said about this whole thing being about the experience of it all. Why else create? And I am determined to manifest some more interesting experiences then brainlessly going to work everyday for the rest of my life.

I don't believe in good or evil, light and darkness, or spiritual karma (the cause and effect kind I do however). I see these all as concepts for the "little people" initiated through religion to make people feel guilty over who they are, or fear from some coming judgement. My feelings on threefold law are, so be it. I'll experience that to and it won't be bad because I won't judge it.

Some see this stance of beyond good and evil as a catalyst for violence and pain. It isn't when it's paired with the knowledge that we are all one consciousness experiencing illusionary division separately. I can't harm someone without harming myself. Besides, it's nothing to do about violence but about realizing the true character free of guilt and shame.

Free of judgement. Free of sin. Free of evolution. Free of guilt. Free of karma. Free of enlightenment. Free of good. Free of evil. Free of fear. Free to be me, to exist, to be whatever I am.

Consider how judgment alone runs and ruins our lives. We are taught to judge everything, to place judgement over every act, deed, mishap, person, event and thing that we make contact with. By making judgement of good we give power to non-good or evil. We say, "What a good person." At the same time creating an evil person. It's seeped into everything most of us are. We judge the day, our sleep, a movie, a book, a webpage. We judge ourselves ruthlessly, our actions, our thoughts, our emotions. Many people claim to not be Christian but they're still living by some insane standard of forthcoming judgment which they must purge themselves of. Many here have learned of the corruption of religion, and influence of the Illuminati. So, isn't it possible that our very concept of good and evil were shaped by that entity to enslave us mentally?

David Icke and Alan Watt are right. The new Illuminati guilt trip is New Age. Another religion which handily combines all the guilt ridden, fear inducing aspects of all religions into one. All the light and darkness, good and evil, karma, spiritual growth, under one roof. It's the perfect religion for a New World Order of repressed individuals toiling endlessly in the mud. Judging by how prevalent it is, it's not going anywhere. Oprah is spewing it's teaching all over the air waves and it's not surprising it's taking so well. Let me say this clearly: New Age thought suffers largely from an overabundance of feminine energy. To put it another way, it's target audience is middle aged, middle class, white women.

I just desperately want to free myself.

My point is that I want to be done with guilt based religions, philosophies, thoughts and from my experience these come from judgment. Because it's the guilt free people who rule the world now, because they've freed themselves of useless hindrances like good and evil. They just exist. They just are. And from experience, in a totally non-judgmental way, they just are complete assholes. It's well past time that the non-assholes (:p) free themselves as well.



the way I see it... I focus more on the reason I want money....

For example you can manifest money into your life but you might still be as unhappy... after all money is just paper...

I would think I want money because I want to have more time on my hands and I want to have less stress on my mind and more security.... I would try to manifest those emotions... if they manifest through money then fine.... but the bottom line its about me and how I feel.

say for example a kid at school is to isolated from the rest and cant speak to girls because he is to shy.... if he was to manifest having sex.... it does not mean he would be a less shy.... just that he would probably get a quick bit of some sloppy seconds at a party while pissed out of his head....

If he was to look deeper into it and manifest confidence.... then the desires he have will slot into place from that.....we don't always want what we need.... we just want it because we don't have it.... maybe when the kid manifested more confidence he found out he was not all that desperate for a girl friend anyway!....

this is just an example...

[marpat]

There are also other side to consider. If you done a ritual purely for money then that has to come from somewhere else. Not very nice if a ritual is for a huge windfall and you get this via somebodies life policy because of an accident. I guess you could specify a big lottery win.

The is a book that discusses such things under the heading of grey magic. this book is 'Modern Magick' by Donald Michael Kraig.

[lightgiver]

So at the moment of orgasm,
just before he is about to shoot his DEVIL semen,
he holds it in,
with a visualization of a
GIANT SPIDER OF THE CONGO:D:D:DHA HA

[marpat]

So at the moment of orgasm,
just before he is about to shoot his DEVIL semen,
he holds it in,
with a visualization of a
GIANT SPIDER OF THE CONGO:D:D:DHA HA

Ha ha that is hilarious, devil semen. You sound like somebody from the 18th century.

[thirdwave]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mFhSC4MVqLg

[eternal_spirit]

Maybe you should go wank off over a Baphomet, a pentagram or a shiva or shakti statue ( tantra )... ( chaos magic):rolleyes:

Some of us prefer humans.

Marpat do you have any proof that these rituals work?

[thirdwave]

Ha ha that is hilarious, devil semen. You sound like somebody from the 18th century.

it makes you wonder how many icons are out their talking to our subconscious.... quite freaky....

[marpat]

Maybe you should go wank off over a Baphomet, a pentagram or a shiva or shakti statue ( tantra )... ( chaos magic):rolleyes:

Some of us prefer humans.

Marpat do you have any proof that these rituals work?

Why, would it tempt you to start using them? I thought you would be up on all this after your dabbling.

[eternal_spirit]

You may think you can will things to happen, by having sex and silly rituals...but just because something happens doesn't mean it has anything to do with magic rituals. It doesn't! you're deluded and living in cloud cuckoo land.

Random chaos, chance, the law of averages. Being in the right place at the right time.

Going out into the real word and just doing what it takes to get what you want would yield better results than magic ritual ( another example you'll bet on the right horse in a race and win the more times you bet the more chances you have of winnning ) so based on this logic and reality as I've just explained ) the more spells you do say to get money ( By now you should be a millionaire but you're not are you )

Sex is for creating humans not money or whatever you think you want to create. Sex is also fun and can create good feelings.

Chaos magic is a pile of nonsense....for deluded people. Who want to play at a growns up game of Harry Potter.

[marpat]

You may think you can will things to happen, by having sex and silly rituals...but just because something happens doesn't mean it has anything to do with magic rituals. It doesn't! you're deluded and living in cloud cuckoo land.

Random chaos, chance, the law of averages. Being in the right place at the right time.

Going out into the real word and just doing what it takes to get what you want would yield better results than magic ritual ( another example you'll bet on the right horse in a race and win the more times you bet the more chances you have of winnning ) so based on this logic and reality as I've just explained ) the more spells you do say to get money ( By now you should be a millionaire but you're not are you )

Sex is for creating humans not money or whatever you think you want to create. Sex is also fun and can create good feelings.

Chaos magic is a pile of nonsense....for deluded people. Who want to play at a growns up game of Harry Potter.


The final word by Eternal_Spirit. I guess we all need to go and read something else, not.

You don't like it then so what. Don't dictate to others what they should be doing. Something must work, you got your fingers burnt while dabbling so something must have happened. Personally I dont do spells for money, I dont really do spells at all, not my path.

What is you take on the spiritual levels of consciousness, and of being such as reptilians?

[marpat]

...................

Chris you're faker than rocking horse shit. Only reason you know some of hat you know is because we used to chat on msn, I wised you up on certain subjects.

Chris? is this another person you accuse me of being? why is it that when you are beaten you always start some crap? you admitted dabbling in a post, kabbalah and mind control, post number approx 60!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was that a subtle admission of actually dabbling with sex magic?

Was Chris an occultist?

LAM is reading you mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thirdwave]

eeerr any chance of stopping this twit (ES) from hi jacking the thread?

his posts are like bullet holes all the bloomin time...

[eternal_spirit]

Chris? is this another person you accuse me of being? why is it that when you are beaten you always start some crap? you admitted dabbling in a post, kabbalah and mind control, post number approx 60!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was Chris an occultist?
.....................
LOL @ beaten :rolleyes: you're the one throwing hissy fits all round the forum ( demanding proof for everything ) Wan't more intellectual fistycuffs? Ding ding the winner as usual is me :D Come on I'll take you and your monkey thirdwave on.
Afterall Nuit said he was her Crowley protege. What would that make you you spent enough time at her place? Bennet told me things he wouldn't tell you.

[limelady]

This thread is being hijacked and taken off course with personal insults and accusations.

If it continues I will have to start deleting posts.

Please stay on topic.

Thankyou.

[marpat]

I quite like that Crowley quote thirdwave. Too many people have him down as some nasty guy but how many take time to read what he was about.

[marpat]

...............

Carry on pushing your disinfo.

Now how about some proof about these rituals proof they work?

Try one and find out, I am sure you are well versed in the method

Disinfo? you mean reading things without bias?

[logic bomb]

Second and final warning. Keep it on topic please.

[lightgiver]

Ha ha that is hilarious, devil semen. You sound like somebody from the 18th century.

Well at least you have found something funny,for once:rolleyes:
YOU should not dabble with satanic occult practises,
very dangerous:(
It is a dark path,and people who do these practises are storing up a lot of negative karma for themselves:(
If you want to learn about inner winds,central channel, channel wheels and also how to gather the inner winds into the central channel.
if i was you i would avoid crowley like the plague,
you need to get on a purer path,because if you carry on the way you are going you will end up with crowley in a dark realm,
and also like with any meditational practise, the motivation (pure)when doing the practise is of most importance,
if you do not have a altruistic motivation the practise is pointless.
You will be wasting your time.
at the end of the day if you want to follow a dark path that is your decision.
and believe you me there are demons out there,that want to harm beings all the time,that is why people battle the inner demons on a regular basis:eek:
it is a lot harder to be good than bad,
if you examine this you will find it to be true.:)

[krakhead]

Chaos magic is a pile of nonsense....for deluded people. Who want to play at a growns up game of Harry Potter.

I'd have to disagree with you on this, it DOES work, or rather, it has for me. No, I can't PROVE it in a scientific sense, but I've been more than impressed with results I've had over the years.

It appears to me that if the INTENT behind the ritual is complete enough, you can get results. What I have repeatedly found is that Universe appears to have a sense of humour in bringing you what you requested!

[deathcultreject]

I charged a sigil when I was dangling upside down from a tree house in an eviction once. That was quite a powerful one.

As I see it, the modern explaination behind sigil magic is this;

The unconscious mind is much bigger than the conscious mind, so if you can get your intention fired up in the unconscious mind and then just forget about it, it will work better than methods like visualisation and 'the secret'

I've been doing it for about 20 years, and it does work.

It combines well with ritual magic if you use ceremony to get the right kind of charge for the sigil, but that leaves you open to effects by the moods and personalities of the angels / gods / spirits etc. in the ritual.

And it's old school.

Here's some modern versions,

get a marker pen and draw the sigils all around the edge of screen of your TV, then watch something with the right mood for the sigil, preferably intense.

Chocolat or Patch Adams for awakening, perhaps, or Pirates of the Caribbean if you need to be more cunning.

(Don't use a violent film for a sigil to get laid)

or

Write your intent (simply in positive words) and put it on lots of text to speech loops (or recordings of your own voice saying it) untill it sounds like a rumble.*

Then play it in the back ground whilst you watch a conceptual overload like soundless dawn's films on you tube.

I used speech loops with brain wave programmes when we were bringin rain to Texas recently.


Here's a warning, if you take up magic, be prepared for unexpected results. The best way is to study all kinds of magic and mysticism so you have a better warning about the strangeness to come.

Also, studying far and wide can put you in a good position to take the bits you want from different systems, which is what chaos magicians do.

Feel free to ask me about chaos magic, I've been practicing it for a very long time, (sometimes with the people who started it.)

here's a good book on sigils from a good magical author.

Visual Magick
A Manual of Freestyle Shamanism
by Jan Fries

http://www.mandrake.uk.net/janfries.htm

[krakhead]

Well at least you have found something funny,for once:rolleyes:
YOU should not dabble with satanic occult practises,
very dangerous:(
It is a dark path,and people who do these practises are storing up a lot of negative karma for themselves:(
If you want to learn about inner winds,central channel, channel wheels and also how to gather the inner winds into the central channel.
if i was you i would avoid crowley like the plague,
you need to get on a purer path,because if you carry on the way you are going you will end up with crowley in a dark realm,
and also like with any meditational practise, the motivation (pure)when doing the practise is of most importance,
if you do not have a altruistic motivation the practise is pointless.
You will be wasting your time.
at the end of the day if you want to follow a dark path that is your decision.
and believe you me there are demons out there,that want to harm beings all the time,that is why people battle the inner demons on a regular basis:eek:
it is a lot harder to be good than bad,
if you examine this you will find it to be true.:)


Why do you feel that chaos magick isn't a pure path? I agree that the intent is of upmost importance, and also that altruistic intent will bring better results, but I absolutely do not agree that it IS a 'dark path' per se, but the proper preparation can, and will, protect you from 'darker energies' (and my understanding of these would suggest that these would come from within) that could lead to misfortune or a bad psychological response.

[deathcultreject]

YOU should not dabble with satanic occult practises,
very dangerous:(
It is a dark path,and people who do these practises are storing up a lot of negative karma for themselves:(
If you want to learn about inner winds,central channel, channel wheels and also how to gather the inner winds into the central channel.
if i was you i would avoid crowley like the plague,
you need to get on a purer path,because if you carry on the way you are going you will end up with crowley in a dark realm,


You can bitch all you like love, but we're the one's who're getting laid.

[marpat]

I think ES is misguided when he asks for proof in this field. When I asked for proof of chemtrails I was asking for physical proof of a physical chemtrail, which to me would seem quite a valid request.

The thing is with any spiritual act is that it is non-material so why is there some requirement to have physical proof of a non-physical force? this is why people get tripped up, trying to prove something by a method which is completely unsuitable.

I think Lightbringer is just misguided. He never displays any level of knowledge or experience in these matters. Anybody who tells people to avoid Crowley like the plauge has obviously not studied his work. It is another case of following the sheep. LB keeps telling people to keep an open mind but obviously not open enough to study people who the herd feel are negative.

[deathcultreject]

Why do you feel that chaos magick isn't a pure path? I agree that the intent is of upmost importance, and also that altruistic intent will bring better results, but I absolutely do not agree that it IS a 'dark path' per se, but the proper preparation can, and will, protect you from 'darker energies' (and my understanding of these would suggest that these would come from within) that could lead to misfortune or a bad psychological response.

I agree.

Chaos magic should not exclude purity.

It just shouldn't promote it iether. It's personal choice.

Quite simply, chaos magic is a post modern aproach to the great work, and it practices the essence of all western mystery systems.

Most of us enjoy eastern spirituality and shamanism as well. (But there are one or two miserable sods who only do rune magic)

[marpat]

I agree.

Chaos magic should not exclude purity.

It just shouldn't promote it iether. It's personal choice.

Quite simply, chaos magic is a post modern aproach to the great work, and it practices the essence of all western mystery systems.

Most of us enjoy eastern spirituality and shamanism as well. (But there are one or two miserable sods who only do rune magic)

That is the thing though, most of us have studied many systems, unlike a few people who could be mentioned who study a bit of Buddhism and think they are emancipated. We are richer for our study.

[lightgiver]

i personally find it dark,each to there own.
i think crowley was misunderstood and was ahead of his time,but i think he practised to many paths,by trying to understand all the occult practises:confused:of many faiths and tried to intertwine them into what he thought was a correct path.
i personally think you should find a pure lineage and stick with that practise:)
he did like his drugs and maybe that clouded his judgements?
I personally have nothing against him,but i do think he strayed.
But don't all beings.
Hope that as cleared any misjudgements up.
You have to have a bit of humour to lighten things up sometimes;)
after all crowley did;)
try not to take things to seriously,this may help your practise,
but above all try to stay pure and battle them demons:eek:;):D

[lightgiver]

That is the thing though, most of us have studied many systems, unlike a few people who could be mentioned who study a bit of Buddhism and think they are emancipated. We are richer for our study.

Marpet you need to lighten up and stop being personnel,is that a hint of jealousy i hear:rolleyes:
Practise makes perfect,
you have no idea about me and what and how long i have studied anything?
to me you are just trying to vie for attention,
and do not like to be thought of as less superior.
and you come across as non sequitur?
and also i think you have a superiority complex?

[marpat]

i personally find it dark,each to there own.
i think crowley was misunderstood and was ahead of his time,but i think he practised to many paths,by trying to understand all the occult practises:confused:of many faiths and tried to intertwine them into what he thought was a correct path.
i personally think you should find a pure lineage and stick with that practise:)
he did like his drugs and maybe that clouded his judgements?
I personally have nothing against him,but i do think he strayed.
But don't all beings.
Hope that as cleared any misjudgements up.
You have to have a bit of humour to lighten things up sometimes;)
after all crowley did;)
try not to take things to seriously,this may help your practise,
but above all try to stay pure and battle them demons:eek:;):D

Pure to what though? the demons are nothing more than aspects of ourselves that have been rejected and need re-integration. Once they have become part of the whole they cease to be a problem. These aspects can appear as external forms but even then they are just the reflections of our own inner fears.

[marpat]

Marpet you need to lighten up and stop being personnel,is that a hint of jealousy i hear:rolleyes:
Practise makes perfect,
you have no idea about me and what and how long i have studied anything?
to me you are just trying to vie for attention,
and do not like to be thought of as less superior.
and you come across as non sequitur?
and also i think you have a superiority complex?


Why do you feel it was aimed at you? it was a generalisation

[lightgiver]

You can bitch all you like love, but we're the one's who're getting laid.

you are not very magical,are you:rolleyes:
with statements like that ,
another one with a superiority complex:rolleyes:

[lightgiver]

Why do you feel it was aimed at you? it was a generalisation

Marpet i have had enough contact with you to understand your MINDSET;):D

[deathcultreject]

i personally find it dark,each to there own.
i think crowley was misunderstood and was ahead of his time,but i think he practised to many paths,by trying to understand all the occult practises:confused:of many faiths and tried to intertwine them into what he thought was a correct path.
i personally think you should find a pure lineage and stick with that practise:)
he did like his drugs and maybe that clouded his judgements?
I personally have nothing against him,but i do think he strayed.
But don't all beings.
Hope that as cleared any misjudgements up.
You have to have a bit of humour to lighten things up sometimes;)
after all crowley did;)
try not to take things to seriously,this may help your practise,
but above all try to stay pure and battle them demons:eek:;):D

If you want to stay with your own idea of a spiritual straight and narrow . . .

. . . I salute your decision to do so.

And I hope I can help to defend if it ever gets persecuted.

I have my own gripes about Crowley, and a lot of gripes about the agendas of some people who join magical orders.

[lightgiver]

Pure to what though? the demons are nothing more than aspects of ourselves that have been rejected and need re-integration. Once they have become part of the whole they cease to be a problem. These aspects can appear as external forms but even then they are just the reflections of our own inner fears.

You mean a PHANTASMAGORIA??

[lightgiver]

If you want to stay with your own idea of a spiritual straight and narrow . . .

. . . I salute your decision to do so.

And I hope I can help to defend if it ever gets persecuted.

I have my own gripes about Crowley, and a lot of gripes about the agendas of some people who join magical orders.

Beings are persecuted no matter what path they follow,
this is what needs to be changed and peoples minds need to be opened to all possibilities instead of having concrete MINDSETS,
as long as the path is pure and unadulterated.

[marpat]

You mean a PHANTASMAGORIA??

Yes and we need to valmorphorise them

[deathcultreject]

Beings are persecuted no matter what path they follow,
this is what needs to be changed and peoples minds need to be opened to all possibilities instead of having concrete MINDSETS,
as long as the path is pure and unadulterated.

I have a lot of sympathy for your viewpoint, lightgiver.

But it's judegement that destroys us.

[marpat]

Beings are persecuted no matter what path they follow,
this is what needs to be changed and peoples minds need to be opened to all possibilities instead of having concrete MINDSETS,
as long as the path is pure and unadulterated.

Purity implies contamination. What is the contamination? these are the concepts of the dualistic mind and they disappear when one touches the essence of mind, the void of consciousness, however, I fear we are digressing from the topic.

[deathcultreject]

..............

It's what's known as having morals and a conscience, which includes aspects such as empathy compassion, love etc etc. You need a line between good and bad, other wise one is a psychopath/sociopath without a conscience. Main point being dark rituals and paths draw dark energies etc towards oneself.

Magic should not destroy morals or conscience.

Mind Control does.

Chaos magic should overcome false morals and false conscience, and allow a purer personal morality and conscience to grow from within.

Abusers will target everything wonderful and try to control it and turn it into a vehicle for abuse.

That's not the essence of magic. It's the imposition of 'malice in wonderland'.

[marpat]

..............

It's what's known as having morals and a conscience, which includes aspects such as empathy compassion, love etc etc. You need a line between good and bad, other wise one is a psychopath/sociopath without a conscience. Main point being dark rituals and paths draw dark energies etc towards oneself.

But good and bad are often no more than points of view designated by men, therefore not absolute. This does not answer what purity is, it is an answer on what postive action is. In truth all good an evil is nothing more than the world viewed through the ego, the dualistic level of being.

What defines a dark ritual and a dark energy? again we find that such labels are those attributed by men. It is well known that the gods of one religion become the demons of the next. At one time they will be gods, good and light, but once superseded their rites will be classed as devil worship, etc.

Hows does a person know the dark and light within themselves unless they see if for themselves? once they see it they learn to master it and then to transcend it.

Chaos magic is not about creating disorder as people may think. It is not really dark as well once it's concepts have been looked at. Because chaos magic is non-linear I would say that it cannot be used for mind control because it totally lacks structure, something a controlling force needs.

[lightgiver]

Purity implies contamination. What is the contamination? these are the concepts of the dualistic mind and they disappear when one touches the essence of mind, the void of consciousness, however, I fear we are digressing from the topic.

AU REVOIR......

[lightgiver]

I have a lot of sympathy for your viewpoint, lightgiver.

But it's judegement that destroys us.

AU REVOIR.....

[deathcultreject]

Chaos magic is not about creating disorder as people may think. It is not really dark as well once it's concepts have been looked at. Because chaos magic is non-linear I would say that it cannot be used for mind control because it totally lacks structure, something a controlling force needs.

The history of chaos magic can be seen as a history of battle against mind control.

Chaos magic as a community has been targeted by mind control.

Personaly, I believe that it has infiltrated, but I don't know how far.

With the IOT . . .

. . . I don't out the identities of living members unless they have chosen to become public themselves,

or unless they have been a complete arse.

here are the names of some dead IOT members who have had connection with mind control.

William Burroughs who has publicly admitted that he 'tried' to join the CIA.

Timothy Leary who agreed to give information (of an undisclosed nature) to the FBI

Robert Anton Wilson who was involved with Richard Bandler.

Also there is some confusion over who won 'the ice wars' seeing as the most celebrated Jewish IOT member (Phil Hine) appears to have been driven insane, and that can't be done by magic alone, it also requires drug abuse or gang stalking.

It has been infiltrated a lot more by 'mind control positive' nobodies who would like to become sombodies, one of them publicly claimed that 'aspirants' to the IOT should submit to brainwashing.

I won't go into details on this thread.

Needless to say, I'm not involved if they are, but IOT members who have a sympathy with my own values and feelings against brainwashing may and do continue to work with me.

[thirdwave]

all kind of magick is not dark or good...

I am getting more and more into this subject because of how so many seem to be clueless about it

Now, The PTB have been useing Magick on us!!.... you do not have to be a brain surgeon to work that out.. they are open about it, they show their occult logos off to the world!

now, the first step to being able to defend your self is understanding what hits you are receiving.... understand how they are attacking us....

learning what they use to harm us is not negative... it is extremely positive...

caos magick is simply a more modern type of magick... it does not requite months long rituals or lots of money and time....

it is a more modern magick...

when people say its dark and what not.. well if you cant swim then water is dark.... if you you are3 a young child and not been in town before then that can be freaky...

Magick is simply understanding how out minds work and how to try and me out own mechanic...

if somone is doing something evil its because they are an evil person anyway... if you are good then you will not kill somone... very simple....

Ted Bundy was not into the occult ...had he been he would have done fucked up things....

while I would not urge people to get stuck into practising magick unless they have been very smart and educated them selves thoroughly... I would advice all to research how it works and what it is... because all of us are being attacked by it every single day of our lives... so it would be kind of handy to work out what it actually is!

there are a number of people on this forum who seem to oppose any knowledge of it to a degree Im starting to question their motives.... why would people be so against people understanding this stuff?

if i was to choose to create a icon thast meant something to me and jerk off over it.... what is the difference to that or me jerking off over a porn star in a mag?

the differences is that with the mag i would be focusing my energy into somone else's profit and energy.... but this is expected in our world.... its what guys do....

do it to a picture you create and want to focus your energy on... and all of a sudden it gets dark and twisted!

lol

Wake up folks... this should be taught at school at through history ..years back... it was.

[ninja17]

Anybody red "the sacred magic of abramelin" ?

Crowley was into it too but he had to quit because the demons he demanded could flee and were loose..(??)

I am not much into magic but IF, this system makes sense and i feel its possible when done right.

The PTB have been useing Magick on us!!....

You could be right.

In the "the sacred magic of abramelin" there is a section for bringing houses down!!

[kblood]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PPBR7PrMWOc

Great stuff here, he actually understands what magick is. Yes, magick of any kind works best when heightened emotions are involved, I find sex and pain cheap ways of getting that though.

There are better ways to make the mind get into a state where it reaches a heightened state. The thing is you sometimes enter these states without even noticing, like having fun while playing a computer game.

Im really amazed how people just say, noo magick is evil. Dont research people like Crowley and so on. Its not morally healthy to read Crowley and believe he might actually be right about some of the stuff he wrote... :p

Well, I havent read his stuff myself, but from what I have heard and read about him, he must understand magick quite well, and probably did a good job of defining it in his own way.

This Grant Morrison talks about very important issues, like how McDonalds and Coca Cola are not just there to make lots of money. Every company logo is what he this Morrison guy calls a sigil. Every company has its own goals, agendas, strategies and visions. They try to make sure as many as possible know what these are. Take Apple, they are doing a great job branding themself. I wonder how many of these companies actually know what all these logos are really about? Well, I guess they do, because they are promoting it themselves, and should know what it is they are promoting. Its usually quite obvious.

Some companies dont know how powerfull this is, and some people dont understand how this relates to magick in any way. This is magick at its highest though, at least in my oppinion.

When it comes to chaos magick, I believe it is very possible. I just do it in even simpler ways. I dont even bother making sigils, I just visualise what I want, figure out how I might get it, and go for it. So far I have gotten more than I have asked for.

Also, dont let it be money that is your focus of what you want. Money really doesnt matter much, especially in relations to magick. Internet might be found somewhere at half price, for the same kind of Internet you already got, and in a way you earned money right there. The obstacle therefore rarely is having the money to do something. Also maybe you get a job with benefits covering those basic needs you got. Thats practically what I like the most about my current job, it got almost all I want and need for now.

Since I havent read Crowley I cant recommend him as the best way of learning magick. So far I would just recommend something like "The Secret" or Law of Attraction as its mostly called. It also explains quite alot of it well, although it might not all be spot on. To some it makes sense and is very usefull to others Crowley might make more sense.

What kind of cartoons / comics has this Grant Morrison made? I think I will try finding some.

[thirdwave]

Anybody red "the sacred magic of abramelin" ?

Crowley was into it too but he had to quit because the demons he demanded could flee and were loose..(??)

I am not much into magic but IF, this system makes sense and i feel its possible when done right.

such is life.... if you dont understand somthing then it goes wrong... if you dont bring a child up right he/she will be shit ....

if you don't learn about something you don't understand it and it will become harmful...

crowley was a man man/genuines...

people here have trouble thining if it was real... not only did he over step that mark but he descovered more about it.... and actualy prived to be more knowing than the giw wigs running thw world...

but yes he was an extremest...off his nut... wanted to find out more and more and more.... to the point he raised sprites....good or bad... but wanted control over them... did not want to fear them... but learn from them.... learn from it all, it was not about ego... he was wise enough to know about learning to control his ego...but he wanted to not fear anything... he wanted to face it all and control it....fear nothing... and in the end he did not really succeed... he dies in a bed sit ..broke... addicted to heroin ... but boy did he get some work done...

I cant really see any point in congering up beings from other dimensions unless you feel there is somone calling you .... and you have signs in your life showing you this...

otherwise its about you and your mind and learning to control it and i guess in this day and age.... defend it.

of course no one should get involved in anything they don't understand.... but learn it!!... learn about the powers that are there.... and use what you can to help you. that's my advice...

[ninja17]

Did you read the "the sacred magic of abramelin" then?

[thirdwave]

Great stuff here, he actually understands what magick is. Yes, magick of any kind works best when heightened emotions are involved, I find sex and pain cheap ways of getting that though.

There are better ways to make the mind get into a state where it reaches a heightened state. The thing is you sometimes enter these states without even noticing, like having fun while playing a computer game.

Im really amazed how people just say, noo magick is evil. Dont research people like Crowley and so on. Its not morally healthy to read Crowley and believe he might actually be right about some of the stuff he wrote... :p

Well, I havent read his stuff myself, but from what I have heard and read about him, he must understand magick quite well, and probably did a good job of defining it in his own way.

This Grant Morrison talks about very important issues, like how McDonalds and Coca Cola are not just there to make lots of money. Every company logo is what he this Morrison guy calls a sigil. Every company has its own goals, agendas, strategies and visions. They try to make sure as many as possible know what these are. Take Apple, they are doing a great job branding themself. I wonder how many of these companies actually know what all these logos are really about? Well, I guess they do, because they are promoting it themselves, and should know what it is they are promoting. Its usually quite obvious.

Some companies dont know how powerfull this is, and some people dont understand how this relates to magick in any way. This is magick at its highest though, at least in my oppinion.

When it comes to chaos magick, I believe it is very possible. I just do it in even simpler ways. I dont even bother making sigils, I just visualise what I want, figure out how I might get it, and go for it. So far I have gotten more than I have asked for.

Also, dont let it be money that is your focus of what you want. Money really doesnt matter much, especially in relations to magick. Internet might be found somewhere at half price, for the same kind of Internet you already got, and in a way you earned money right there. The obstacle therefore rarely is having the money to do something. Also maybe you get a job with benefits covering those basic needs you got. Thats practically what I like the most about my current job, it got almost all I want and need for now.

Since I havent read Crowley I cant recommend him as the best way of learning magick. So far I would just recommend something like "The Secret" or Law of Attraction as its mostly called. It also explains quite alot of it well, although it might not all be spot on. To some it makes sense and is very usefull to others Crowley might make more sense.

What kind of cartoons / comics has this Grant Morrison made? I think I will try finding some.



im no pro... but the impression I get is the more you believe and understand how it works... the less rules there are.... you create your own methods tat suit your own mind....

I don't think people need it to be happy... but I think its helpful in today day and age.... to help us get through our battles....

its helpful to understand it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHOh4Cgkn0&NR=1

[thirdwave]

Did you read the "the sacred magic of abramelin" then?

I have not mate.. TBH most of what i know has been taught to me by a mate who is really into it and although does not practice it certainly knows the score with it.... but I would be interested to check your book out....

[deathcultreject]

caos magick is simply a more modern type of magick... it does not requite months long rituals or lots of money and time....


Well, over here, a couple of us chaos magicians spent months on an operation to deal with the local suicide problem.

We made tulpas to deal with the causes of the increasing suicide rates as we saw them.

They're still going strong, and designed to work in synergy with magical / spiritual help from elsewhere (which I did persistently ask for.)

Chaos magic can be minimal and punk as fuck, or it can be classical music and shakespearean.

It's all down to choice.

Some of the elders in chaos magic are currently encouraging short and sweet rituals etc.

I can see the value in that.

[ninja17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Sacred_Magic_of_Abramelin_the_Mage

This is Mather`s version..
http://sacred-texts.com/grim/abr/index.htm

I have red the version by Johann Richard Beecken but cant find it on the net..

If you have the time let me know what you think..

Greetz

[thirdwave]

Well, over here, a couple of us chaos magicians spent months on an operation to deal with the local suicide problem.

We made tulpas to deal with the causes of the increasing suicide rates as we saw them.

They're still going strong, and designed to work in synergy with magical / spiritual help from elsewhere (which I did persistently ask for.)

Chaos magic can be minimal and punk as fuck, or it can be classical music and shakespearean.

It's all down to choice.

Some of the elders in chaos magic are currently encouraging short and sweet rituals etc.

I can see the value in that.



i think surely the more people that do it and understand it ..the less negative that would happen.... at the end of the day its just a way of manually trying to alter the mind so it can manifest what we want... it comes down to how mature the person is in knowing what he/she should manifest.... what they really want... trying to magick loads of money and girls will not really be very fruitful.... and wont solve our problems.... learning to help out inner battles will ber work, and will make everything else follow...

[thirdwave]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Sacred_Magic_of_Abramelin_the_Mage

This is Mather`s version..
http://sacred-texts.com/grim/abr/index.htm

I have red the version by Johann Richard Beecken but cant find it on the net..

If you have the time let me know what you think..

Greetz

will do ... im on sleep zone at the mo so will bookmark it...

cheers

[kblood]

im no pro... but the impression I get is the more you believe and understand how it works... the less rules there are.... you create your own methods tat suit your own mind....

I don't think people need it to be happy... but I think its helpful in today day and age.... to help us get through our battles....

its helpful to understand it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHOh4Cgkn0&NR=1

I agree. I studied wicca and so on a bit, but it seems to me that most magick systems have ways of complicating it. Make an amulet for good luck and imbue by... so on and so forth. I guess that might help, and probably makes it easier to focus, but it also makes us reliant on these kinds of items then. Trinkets, books and whatever else most occult practices suggest you use.

Much of it is about programming yourself. I read a small bit of information I downloaded on Kazaa once I think it was. It said, "this is a secret mind power, try it it really works: Write down something you want, and place it somewhere you can look before you go to sleep. Then look at it before you go to sleep and when you wake up. This helps you visualise it and increases the chance of it happening through the power of the mind."

Probably true that. I never really tried that kind of thing, but that is how I do when I want something. I figure out what I want and then define it more and more. Make sure what I want and how I want it. Also why I want it. A job? A new computer? What will I be willing to do to get it?

So the things I am doing might not even be considered magick in any way, but it is, because magick is something we do every day. Many of us just dont know it. Actors dont call reciting their lines for their character, "casting a spell." It is a way of making memory stick though, repeating the words, in the beginning just in the mind, then with your body, then as you would when it is to be done when on camera.

So I very much also agree that it is not required to be happy. We do these things anyway, the thing is being concious about doing it and how to do it.

[url]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHOh4Cgkn0&NR=1[/url

This guy is not kidding :) He sure does know. He could of course be suckering people, but he just explained how time works, why and how. As it was told to him by beings in another dimension he says. Amazing, because his view of time is very like how I imagine time to be. Also that we are all one and all that, but then we do have our singularity, which I guess must be our soul.

Great thread, thanks for posting about this guy he certainly is interesting.

[deathcultreject]

i think surely the more people that do it and understand it ..the less negative that would happen.... at the end of the day its just a way of manually trying to alter the mind so it can manifest what we want... it comes down to how mature the person is in knowing what he/she should manifest.... what they really want... trying to magick loads of money and girls will not really be very fruitful.... and wont solve our problems.... learning to help out inner battles will ber work, and will make everything else follow...

Hey, thirdwave,

Can you walk in a straight line?

Watch this clip . . .

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Po8uJeoUw

What do you make of it?

[deathcultreject]

As far as I'm concerned, Crowley only had a few redeeming features;

1) He stuck to his guns.

2) He actualy did the work, he didn't just theorise.

3) He made public a lot of things which should never have been made secret.

4) The better part of his mystical life was summarised into a fucking good tarot deck.

Apart from that, some of his published rituals have dangerous flaws in them.

Check every word of his Enochian if you want to try his goetia, he's not a short cut to working out how to do it yourself, and accidents can be very nasty.

I've done exorcism and auric life saving after someone turned catatonic with a goetic fuck up, and it took more than 24 hours. I missed out on rituals and partying because of it :(

The ritual wasn't even my idea, I just thought it was so stupid it was funny.

It still is funny, but that's not the point.

People can die from this stuff if you do it badly.

[deathcultreject]

As far as I'm concerned, Crowley only had a few redeeming features;

1) He stuck to his guns.

2) He actualy did the work, he didn't just theorise.

3) He made public a lot of things which should never have been made secret.

4) The better part of his mystical life was summarised into a fucking good tarot deck.

Apart from that, some of his published rituals have dangerous flaws in them.

Check every word of his Enochian if you want to try his goetia, he's not a short cut to working out how to do it yourself, and accidents can be very nasty.

I've done exorcism and auric life saving after someone turned catatonic with a goetic fuck up, and it took more than 24 hours. I missed out on rituals and partying because of it :(

The ritual wasn't even my idea, I just thought it was so stupid it was funny.

It still is funny, but that's not the point.

People can die from this stuff if you do it badly.

Edited to add, goetic demons don't seem to bother me personaly, twisted little bastards that they are.

It's just that I've seen what they can do, and I'd preffer it if they didn't.

[marpat]

Anybody red "the sacred magic of abramelin" ?

Crowley was into it too but he had to quit because the demons he demanded could flee and were loose..(??)

I am not much into magic but IF, this system makes sense and i feel its possible when done right.



You could be right.

In the "the sacred magic of abramelin" there is a section for bringing houses down!!

Have a copy of it. To be honest I find it really medeaval in it application. It is totally impractical for 99% of people living in the modern world. Unless you can hide away for 6 months and have your everyday business taken care of then it's just not going to happen.

People put Crowleys demise down to failing this but who can say for sure. He did not complete it the first time but I think he did the second time.

[marpat]

i think surely the more people that do it and understand it ..the less negative that would happen.... at the end of the day its just a way of manually trying to alter the mind so it can manifest what we want... it comes down to how mature the person is in knowing what he/she should manifest.... what they really want... trying to magick loads of money and girls will not really be very fruitful.... and wont solve our problems.... learning to help out inner battles will ber work, and will make everything else follow...

You are right about magic needing to be more well know. People slag it off saying it's evil but if the illuminati are using it then you need a weapon to use against them and what could be more suited?
also, if Chrisitianity was an illuminati creation and they violently repressed an magickal knowledge the does this not mean that they see a power threat in it and want to make sure that people don't get invovled? even now when being an individual is supposed to be OK if you are open about being an occultist you can expect people to give you trouble because of historical persecution.

[ninja17]

Have a copy of it. To be honest I find it really medeaval in it application. It is totally impractical for 99% of people living in the modern world. Unless you can hide away for 6 months and have your everyday business taken care of then it's just not going to happen.

And THATS why i think we could be talking about a real magic system here. I am not an insider but think about the elitist and how much time they got on their hands...:eek::D

Greetz

[marpat]

And THATS why i think we could be talking about a real magic system here. I am not an insider but think about the elitist and how much time they got on their hands...:eek::D

Greetz


It is only one system though and it has a reputation as being hazardous, though that might be just to scare dabblers away.

There are many good systems you can use, most of which use a gradual unfolding of power as to try and do it too fast can cause adjustment problems. It could be why the abramelin system has such a bad name, 6 months to gain complete control of all the evil spirits sounds like a tall order. That level of change is not for everybody.

You have to allow for differences in expression between old and modern methods

[kblood]

Why not just go for seeking the same power without the help of spirits? As far as I know, evil spirits usually dont come unless you summon them. Maybe they got a ego or something, and wants to be acknowledged. Good spirits however, as far as I know, help when they feel it is a good thing to do, and probably wont even ask to have any credit for it. That help therefore usually happens without anyone being the wiser about it.

What exactly is there to be gained from seeking the help from spirits? Isnt that just saying you are to weak to do it yourself? At what cost does these spirits help?

I think I have Abralims book somewhere on my computer. The magick I seek is only the kind that I do by myself, or at least do by myself as far as I know of. Magick that "works on its own" seems too good for me, and also lacking control. Working with unseen beings doing favors is something I just wouldnt do. Well, I have but that was on a two way basis. Mostly :o

[marpat]

Why not just go for seeking the same power without the help of spirits? As far as I know, evil spirits usually dont come unless you summon them. Maybe they got a ego or something, and wants to be acknowledged. Good spirits however, as far as I know, help when they feel it is a good thing to do, and probably wont even ask to have any credit for it. That help therefore usually happens without anyone being the wiser about it.

What exactly is there to be gained from seeking the help from spirits? Isnt that just saying you are to weak to do it yourself? At what cost does these spirits help?

I think I have Abralims book somewhere on my computer. The magick I seek is only the kind that I do by myself, or at least do by myself as far as I know of. Magick that "works on its own" seems too good for me, and also lacking control. Working with unseen beings doing favors is something I just wouldnt do. Well, I have but that was on a two way basis. Mostly :o

I think that it was just the mentality of the age. Nowadays people would be far more comfortable invoking angelic beings.

I don't think it has anything to do with weakness though. If you sent a spirit to do a job for you then you can just forget about it. If you intended to do the same thing yourself then it would mean having to concentrate on the goal for a long period. Plus, what people used to call spirits are now accepted as parts of our own psyche, so really it is self mastery.

[kuro]

very interesting thread :)

strange to see people suddenly be so aggressive towards this and label it disinformation. (The word seems to be equivalent to 'blasphemy' sometimes).

I think its important to not isolate chaos magick, occult practices similar to this are everywhere. All knowledge can be used in a positive or negative way.

I've been reading a bit of Crowley lately; it seems like he had good intentions in the beginning but became overpowered and egotistic. Alot of Occultism tends to neglect everything except the quest for seeking powers

How do you Chaos Magicians go about creating a sigil? Anyone have examples of their own (Written forms)?

[marpat]

very interesting thread :)

strange to see people suddenly be so aggressive towards this and label it disinformation. (The word seems to be equivalent to 'blasphemy' sometimes).

I think its important to not isolate chaos magick, occult practices similar to this are everywhere. All knowledge can be used in a positive or negative way.

I've been reading a bit of Crowley lately; it seems like he had good intentions in the beginning but became overpowered and egotistic. Alot of Occultism tends to neglect everything except the quest for seeking powers

How do you Chaos Magicians go about creating a sigil? Anyone have examples of their own (Written forms)?


You can use many methods. Any easy sigil is to write the exact goal required in sentence, then remove all duplicates of letter so that one one of each letter remains, then you just combine these. An T will fit into an I, etc. and just keep combining it until you have the most basic sigil possible, which makes it easier to concentrate upon.

[ninja17]

In the other magic systems..Do they imply a Supreme Being ("God") as basic too?

And that demons are under the rule of the "angelic" beings?

So they have to obey your orders?

[marpat]

In the other magic systems..Do they imply a Supreme Being ("God") as basic too?

And that demons are under the rule of the "angelic" beings?

So they have to obey your orders?

In all systems there is a supreme head. You cannot have a structure without a top and bottom.

There are a few ways to look at demons. You can have daemons, which are basically nature spirits, and you can have demons which are negative forces.

In the first case you can get nature spirits to work with you by various means. Demons, however, are negative forces. To some degree they are necessary to life because life moves in cycles of birth and death, creation and destruction. Such negative forces are needed to carry out the death aspects.

It is my opnion that the demon mentioned in the abramelin system are the negative aspects of the self, the dark, rejected complexes that live in the subconscious and manifest as dark powerful urges. The whole aim of the abramelin system is to gain conversion with your own angel then take control of your own being by converting the negative energies within yourself to something positive, which is why the angels are given power over the demons.

[kblood]

I think that it was just the mentality of the age. Nowadays people would be far more comfortable invoking angelic beings.

I don't think it has anything to do with weakness though. If you sent a spirit to do a job for you then you can just forget about it. If you intended to do the same thing yourself then it would mean having to concentrate on the goal for a long period. Plus, what people used to call spirits are now accepted as parts of our own psyche, so really it is self mastery.

Maybe so, but still I am not trusting of spirits doing it the way I would have wanted them to. Also most magick I use is rather instant, I cant think of any things I would do that took several days to do. I guess my needs might just be lower than the needs of others.

I have actually thought about making "magic" items. This sigil business also sounds like fun. Maybe if I find someone I know who also is into this stuff, then I might try that kind of stuff.

[ninja17]

I have to be 25 years old at least if i might try it someday.

So a lot of time to prepare.:p

Good luck

[marpat]

Maybe so, but still I am not trusting of spirits doing it the way I would have wanted them to. Also most magick I use is rather instant, I cant think of any things I would do that took several days to do. I guess my needs might just be lower than the needs of others.

I have actually thought about making "magic" items. This sigil business also sounds like fun. Maybe if I find someone I know who also is into this stuff, then I might try that kind of stuff.

have you tried searching the internet? I don't personally know anybody into it, so can't help you there. The abramelin way is a bit long winded and most people feel unnecessary.

[thirdwave]

Well, over here, a couple of us chaos magicians spent months on an operation to deal with the local suicide problem.

We made tulpas to deal with the causes of the increasing suicide rates as we saw them.

They're still going strong, and designed to work in synergy with magical / spiritual help from elsewhere (which I did persistently ask for.)

Chaos magic can be minimal and punk as fuck, or it can be classical music and shakespearean.

It's all down to choice.

Some of the elders in chaos magic are currently encouraging short and sweet rituals etc.

I can see the value in that.

yeah It sounds like just a more modern understanding of it I guess... like anything as time goes buy... things are realised and methods become more easy...

[thirdwave]

I agree. I studied wicca and so on a bit, but it seems to me that most magick systems have ways of complicating it. Make an amulet for good luck and imbue by... so on and so forth. I guess that might help, and probably makes it easier to focus, but it also makes us reliant on these kinds of items then. Trinkets, books and whatever else most occult practices suggest you use.

Much of it is about programming yourself. I read a small bit of information I downloaded on Kazaa once I think it was. It said, "this is a secret mind power, try it it really works: Write down something you want, and place it somewhere you can look before you go to sleep. Then look at it before you go to sleep and when you wake up. This helps you visualise it and increases the chance of it happening through the power of the mind."

Probably true that. I never really tried that kind of thing, but that is how I do when I want something. I figure out what I want and then define it more and more. Make sure what I want and how I want it. Also why I want it. A job? A new computer? What will I be willing to do to get it?

So the things I am doing might not even be considered magick in any way, but it is, because magick is something we do every day. Many of us just dont know it. Actors dont call reciting their lines for their character, "casting a spell." It is a way of making memory stick though, repeating the words, in the beginning just in the mind, then with your body, then as you would when it is to be done when on camera.

So I very much also agree that it is not required to be happy. We do these things anyway, the thing is being concious about doing it and how to do it.

[url]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHOh4Cgkn0&NR=1[/url

This guy is not kidding :) He sure does know. He could of course be suckering people, but he just explained how time works, why and how. As it was told to him by beings in another dimension he says. Amazing, because his view of time is very like how I imagine time to be. Also that we are all one and all that, but then we do have our singularity, which I guess must be our soul.

Great thread, thanks for posting about this guy he certainly is interesting.

no problem... thought it was worth checking out..

[thirdwave]

Hey, thirdwave,

Can you walk in a straight line?

Watch this clip . . .

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Po8uJeoUw

What do you make of it?

normally :) ... great track .great lyrics...

As far as I'm concerned, Crowley only had a few redeeming features;

1) He stuck to his guns.

2) He actualy did the work, he didn't just theorise.

3) He made public a lot of things which should never have been made secret.

4) The better part of his mystical life was summarised into a fucking good tarot deck.

Apart from that, some of his published rituals have dangerous flaws in them.

Check every word of his Enochian if you want to try his goetia, he's not a short cut to working out how to do it yourself, and accidents can be very nasty.

I've done exorcism and auric life saving after someone turned catatonic with a goetic fuck up, and it took more than 24 hours. I missed out on rituals and partying because of it :(

The ritual wasn't even my idea, I just thought it was so stupid it was funny.

It still is funny, but that's not the point.

People can die from this stuff if you do it badly.

well yeah there is some magick that can be.... but the only reason its dangersous is people really done belive it works....

people will not go up to a live electric fence and piss on it because they know what will happen.... if people know magic was real for a fact, then they would take it seriously and watch for the dangers as they would anything else...

no one wants to get hurt.

its that same old thing where kids do it for a laugh... (see if it works) or just don't understand how it works and what happens... and they get stung...

magick is so real and has an effect on our bodies that it can give us a nervous brake down simply by altering the chemicals in our body..... I have been warned about this in a book.... but lets not forget it is going on all the time anyway... we can still suffer from it even if we "keep away from it"

[thirdwave]

very interesting thread :)

strange to see people suddenly be so aggressive towards this and label it disinformation. (The word seems to be equivalent to 'blasphemy' sometimes).

I think its important to not isolate chaos magick, occult practices similar to this are everywhere. All knowledge can be used in a positive or negative way.

I've been reading a bit of Crowley lately; it seems like he had good intentions in the beginning but became overpowered and egotistic. Alot of Occultism tends to neglect everything except the quest for seeking powers

How do you Chaos Magicians go about creating a sigil? Anyone have examples of their own (Written forms)?

I have ordered loads of books and stuff...Peter Carroll & Phil Hine are meant to have good books..

[marpat]

I have ordered loads of books and stuff...Peter Carroll & Phil Hine are meant to have good books..

I have Pete Carrols Liber Kaos. while since I have read it though

[thirdwave]

I have Pete Carrols Liber Kaos. while since I have read it though

heard good things about it.. and the reviews looked good as well...

[ichi wa zen]

Whose mind is in chaos?

[krakhead]

I have ordered loads of books and stuff...Peter Carroll & Phil Hine are meant to have good books..

Peter Carroll's 'Liber Null and Psychonaut' should be worth your time IMO, also I'd consider Phil Hine's 'Condensed Chaos' a good starting place if it's all new to you :)

Don't buy anything yet! Read this (http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/liberkkk.html) first :)

[thirdwave]

Peter Carroll's 'Liber Null and Psychonaut' should be worth your time IMO, also I'd consider Phil Hine's 'Condensed Chaos' a good starting place if it's all new to you :)

Don't buy anything yet! Read this (http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/liberkkk.html) first :)

yeah there names have popped up quite allot....cheers

[thirdwave]

Whose mind is in chaos?

??

I guess that a bit of a chaotic thing to say lol

[chris]

Peter Carroll's books are really dumbed down drivel. He just tries to make it exciting by giving basic things cool words and then pretending that he's doing something extremely naughty or forbidden.

I would go with Malita Denning's introduction to high magic. Could be a challenging read but it explains things in both modern and traditional terms without trying to make it out to be cool or rebellious while giving out a dumbed down philosophy like Carroll does.

[marpat]

Whose mind is in chaos?


I think it means chaos as in non-linear or not structured.

[marpat]

Peter Carroll's books are really dumbed down drivel. He just tries to make it exciting by giving basic things cool words and then pretending that he's doing something extremely naughty or forbidden.

I would go with Malita Denning's introduction to high magic. Could be a challenging read but it explains things in both modern and traditional terms without trying to make it out to be cool or rebellious while giving out a dumbed down philosophy like Carroll does.


I have some of the Denning and Phillips books, such as Planetary magic, but they they do come from the traditional angel. I don't think Pete Carrols work is dumbed down but the methods used focus on the essential requirements for magic. Magic is essentially an act of will applied to the achievement of a goal, all deliberate acts requiring desire-will-manifestation.

Some people prefer magic that is well structure whereas some like to stick to the bare bones. Although I myself tend to focus on the more structured stuff I can still see how and why people would be attracted to something that can get results but requires less intellectual effort. I used to think it was people just being lazy but time has mellowed my views and now I just accept that the traditional ways sometimes turn people away from study.

[krakhead]

Peter Carroll's books are really dumbed down drivel. He just tries to make it exciting by giving basic things cool words and then pretending that he's doing something extremely naughty or forbidden.

I would go with Malita Denning's introduction to high magic. Could be a challenging read but it explains things in both modern and traditional terms without trying to make it out to be cool or rebellious while giving out a dumbed down philosophy like Carroll does.

I thought he was 'cutting the crap' and breaking through the intellectualism inherent in more 'traditional' writings.

I did, however, feel that a lot of the people who read his books were very much how you describe - 'cool', 'rebellious' types with no real respect for the methods they were using!

[chris]

I have some of the Denning and Phillips books, such as Planetary magic, but they they do come from the traditional angel. I don't think Pete Carrols work is dumbed down but the methods used focus on the essential requirements for magic. Magic is essentially an act of will applied to the achievement of a goal, all deliberate acts requiring desire-will-manifestation.

Some people prefer magic that is well structure whereas some like to stick to the bare bones. Although I myself tend to focus on the more structured stuff I can still see how and why people would be attracted to something that can get results but requires less intellectual effort. I used to think it was people just being lazy but time has mellowed my views and now I just accept that the traditional ways sometimes turn people away from study.

Denning isn't strictly traditional, just rooted...If we were to be "Traditional" then their would be long recitations instead of symbolic rituals...These are relatively new. Denning firmly accepts the more modern concept. It's just that chaos magic is just dumbed down way further...Regardies "Golden Dawn" is just as good and they use the modern concept...Okay not as modern as thelema but it's still just as applicable and will not contradict the magical philosophy...

Why I like Denning is that he actually explains the modern way but stays rooted traditionally.

After reading Liber null and psychonaught, I doubt very much that anyone will be able to make a long concerted effort to obtain consistant results through its teachings. Probably the only thing they'll accomplish is a very high opinion of themselves and how everyone else is a stupid dogmatic idiot for not taking shortcuts.

I thought he was 'cutting the crap' and breaking through the intellectualism inherent in more 'traditional' writings.

If cutting the crap means "let's just talk about the cool stuff" then he does it quite well...I think he's just trying to make an impact like yet another Crowley wannabe. Yet at least Crowley had some real info that was totally unavailable before. Now all you get is "We are powerful. We are evil, yet we are good. We are chaos magicians!."

I did, however, feel that a lot of the people who read his books were very much how you describe - 'cool', 'rebellious' types with no real respect for the methods they were using!

Yes, but I didn't really mean "Cool" with cool I meant "Cool" as in faux. I don't know what's with these people, they are stupid. It's so dumbed down, it's almost like Wicca where you buy all the right equipment for the specific ritual and then follow the instructions.

If people can't follow Denning, the golden dawn or Jean Duboui then this path isn't for them and should probably do some fasting and open their third eye somewhat before they are ready to start.

[empyblessing]

Instead of labeling something black or white or grey, I'm going to choose to label it effective or ineffective.

[chris]

Instead of labeling something black or white or grey, I'm going to choose to label it effective or ineffective.

That's probably much better. I have found it very hard to find "black magic" as in magick geared towards war...I am quite interested in researching the SS inner party society made by Himmler the "Ahnenerbe" as they've got the whole of the SS to winning the war by whatever means possible...It's not that I want to use it, the normal path gives you all you need to understand how to bring about malific magick but it's just because I'm interested in finding some real black magic.

Most people equate black magick with "The dark side" of starwars...That because you'll do it will make you extremely powerful which is just fantasy.

[deathcultreject]

normally :) ... great track .great lyrics...


You reminded me of it by talking about duality :)


well yeah there is some magick that can be.... but the only reason its dangersous is people really done belive it works....

people will not go up to a live electric fence and piss on it because they know what will happen.... if people know magic was real for a fact, then they would take it seriously and watch for the dangers as they would anything else...

no one wants to get hurt.

its that same old thing where kids do it for a laugh... (see if it works) or just don't understand how it works and what happens... and they get stung...

magick is so real and has an effect on our bodies that it can give us a nervous brake down simply by altering the chemicals in our body..... I have been warned about this in a book.... but lets not forget it is going on all the time anyway... we can still suffer from it even if we "keep away from it"

When it comes to magic, I like Robert Anton Wilson's analogy about wave particle duality.

Electrons and their like minded friends can be waves when you look for waves, and particles when you look for particles.

But with magic, (as Phil Hine said) sooner or later you get something which goes outside your realm of conscious expectation and experience.

So it's good to be able to react to something from a range of philosophical perspectives.

Spirits, transcendance v maya, psychology, brain chemistry, energy flow, neurolinguistics, information, cybernetics (and counter cybernetics) morphic field resonance, quantum physics, religion, memetics etc.

Magicians deal with the stuff which is normaly hard to deal with because it doesn't fit into normal ways of looking at the world.

The chaos aproach to magic is in some ways a discepline of remembering that we can change from one cosmology to another to deal with whatever might engage our attention as the matter at hand.

I might be a 'jack of all trades' but I hope I still have a deep respect for people who can be a 'master of one.'

[kblood]

From how I understand it, what it takes to work magick and make spells of your own, is understanding the workings and the effect of the spell. Take an illusion for example, not only do you need to be able to visualise this illusion yourself, but you also need to put this visualisation into the minds of others, or it would just be pure imagination.

Same goes for controlling elements or energy, you have to visualise the flow of energy or how the elements flow. Water is very different from fire in example. I havent tried controlling water, seems easier to me with fire, since it seems more alive, and free to me. Water on the other hand seems to bound by gravity. Then there is electricity, also similar to fire, but it needs to flow through something, or have a focus point, or both. Our body being mainly water, can both hold electricity and conduct it, and thereby be used to target the charge somewhere as well. I have only tried controlling it a few times. Less than 5. I know one who has done it more than that, and after a while it seems to become more and more difficult controlling it, sometimes you might charge and discharge without wanting to.

Other than this, I guess there is teleportation and levitation. For some reason its easier to do with an audiance, I guess most magick is. The more people you can convince what you are talking about is going to happen, the more power there is in it. It might just be a theory, but I think it helps alot to have an audience. I even expect some of the public magicians actually using this. I find it suspicious that some of their greatest tricks were done live on TV, so I wonder if that was to make it using real magick instead of only optical illusions and whatever other tricks might be used. Still, the fun part about both is that tricks are probably used of both kinds, by both kinds of tricksters :) Many magicians makes it part of their trick to make it believable, no matter wether it is real or not. Because of this, we wont easily be able to tell when it is or when it isnt.

I dont know if this is at all the same as chaos magick, although it seems somewhat similar to me, just without using sigils and such. Its still about visualisation. I think that is the most important part.

[deathcultreject]

Peter Carroll's books are really dumbed down drivel. He just tries to make it exciting by giving basic things cool words and then pretending that he's doing something extremely naughty or forbidden.

I would go with Malita Denning's introduction to high magic. Could be a challenging read but it explains things in both modern and traditional terms without trying to make it out to be cool or rebellious while giving out a dumbed down philosophy like Carroll does.

Chris, I was just starting to like you . . .

Dennings and Philips, have written some excellent magical books, and trust me, I'm not saying that from the arm chair.

I got several months worth of old benefits backdated from a Zeus ritual using their epithets.

So it works.

I'm not going to stop you taking cheap shots at my friends and colleages etc. but is there anything that you'd like like to ask me whilst I'm here?

[deathcultreject]

very interesting thread :)

strange to see people suddenly be so aggressive towards this and label it disinformation. (The word seems to be equivalent to 'blasphemy' sometimes).

I think its important to not isolate chaos magick, occult practices similar to this are everywhere. All knowledge can be used in a positive or negative way.

I've been reading a bit of Crowley lately; it seems like he had good intentions in the beginning but became overpowered and egotistic. Alot of Occultism tends to neglect everything except the quest for seeking powers

How do you Chaos Magicians go about creating a sigil? Anyone have examples of their own (Written forms)?

Well a basic sigil is like a book order to Amazon.

You define your intention in certain terms (no uncertain terms)

You convert it into an abstract symbol, (which the deep mind will recognise as the intention)

Then you pay for it by concentrating on it in gnosis.

We make our currency harder by methods which are generaly known as meditation, mindfullness, focusing, pranayama, martial arts, living honourably, stuff like that.

Neural harmony.

[chris]

Chris, I was just starting to like you . . .

Dennings and Philips, have written some excellent magical books, and trust me, I'm not saying that from the arm chair.

I got several months worth of old benefits backdated from a Zeus ritual using their epithets.

So it works.

I'm not going to stop you taking cheap shots at my friends and colleages etc. but is there anything that you'd like like to ask me whilst I'm here?

Huh? Did you read my post too quickly? I give the highest praise to Denning and Philips...I like them only behind Jean Dubouis and that's quite close at that. I was recommending their books over anything else to read about magick because they don't dumb things down but also don't try to deceive their reader into thinking they are god almighty. If your taking offence to my swipes at Carrol then I pretty much stand by them because I don't like Carrol's work that I have read.

Denning and Philips are perfect for intoducing people into this philosophy because the work they present is quite demanding but it should be because this is not basic stuff we are talking.

[thirdwave]

Huh? Did you read my post too quickly? I give the highest praise to Denning and Philips...I like them only behind Jean Dubouis and that's quite close at that. I was recommending their books over anything else to read about magick because they don't dumb things down but also don't try to deceive their reader into thinking they are god almighty. If your taking offence to my swipes at Carrol then I pretty much stand by them because I don't like Carrol's work that I have read.

Denning and Philips are perfect for introducing people into this philosophy because the work they present is quite demanding but it should be because this is not basic stuff we are talking.

not read any Denning or Philips.. but I disagree with your Carrol comments.... I find alot of it is dry humour aimed at being sarcastic at how people see some things as naughty when its not..

I think Him and Phil Hine are very interesting from what I have read so far... in fact I think Carrol is just someone who takes the works of the likes of Crowley and Spare. and brings is up to date...

[eternal_spirit]

not read any Denning or Philips.. but I disagree with your Carrol comments.... I find alot of it is dry humour aimed at being sarcastic at how people see some things as naughty when its not..

I think Him and Phil Hine are very interesting from what I have read so far... in fact I think Carrol is just someone who takes the works of the likes of Crowley and Spare. and brings is up to date...

.......................
ROLMFAO

BTW deathcultreject claimed to be related to Crowley. But then he accused me of being Michael Aquino more than once. Feed your delusions. You mock laugh, condem and call Christians in so many horrible ways, yet what are you doing other than praying for something in a different way?

[eternal_spirit]

quote: deathcultreject
I got several months worth of old benefits backdated from a Zeus ritual using their epithets.

So it works.

....................

The only reason you got your benefits backdated, is because they owed you benefits, it had nothing to do with chaos magick and Zeus.

If another person who didn't use chaos magick was owed backdated benefits they'd also get those benefits.

You'll have to provide a better example than the one you provided DCR to conclude "it works."

[thirdwave]

I would recommend Peter Carol to people who find Crowleys work to complicated to read.... Since I have read people like Carol I find Crowleys stuff easier to get my head around...

[chris]

I would recommend Peter Carol to people who find Crowleys work to complicated to read.... Since I have read people like Carol I find Crowleys stuff easier to get my head around...

If they can't understand Crowley then they are surely too stupid to do this kind of work. Tell them to take up Scientology or something...

Carrol would simply just pollute them even more. I guess Carrol conveys the general idea of magick but absolutely nothing in the way done by Denning in "Philosophy of high magic" who does it with a certain degree of taste without trying to rub peoples ego's for cash/followers.

[thirdwave]

If they can't understand Crowley then they are surely too stupid to do this kind of work.

No one is to stupid to do it.... he explained things in a very complicated way and was known for being like this... not only are his texts very old but very self indulgent.


Carrol would simply just pollute them even more. I guess Carrol conveys the general idea of magick but absolutely nothing in the way done by Denning in "Philosophy of high magic" who does it with a certain degree of taste without trying to rub peoples ego's for cash/followers.

From my expirience of reading him, he is a good read. And certainly is not a bad name within magick.... I will be happy to check out Dennning though..

here was a short page of his stuff somone posted here....

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/liberkkk.html

[marpat]

If they can't understand Crowley then they are surely too stupid to do this kind of work. Tell them to take up Scientology or something...

Carrol would simply just pollute them even more. I guess Carrol conveys the general idea of magick but absolutely nothing in the way done by Denning in "Philosophy of high magic" who does it with a certain degree of taste without trying to rub peoples ego's for cash/followers.

I don't think so myself. Crowleys work can be quite sophisticated and parts of it rely on some level of experience. It is definitely not meant for beginners in my opinion. I think that every person has a starting point, some higher than others, but it is just a case of finding your level and working from there.

[empyblessing]

Has anyone done research into Wilhelm Reich and sex magick?

[lizzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MonNSusdTfI&feature=related

[empyblessing]

Wrong thread? I'm not sure of what this has to do with the subject.

[lizzy]

well perhaps watch it and grasp that your magick chaos is an Illuminarti construct. It might put everything in clearer context.:)

[meave]

thanks thirdwave but a note to anybody that going to use this remember to ask it in the manner of in the best interest of all in volvled:)

[thirdwave]

*pointless video which represents an extreme case of imposing ignorance, removed*

this thread is not about the illuminati... and its not about Satanism... get with it woman.

[montag]

Hey guy's this is the Astrology / Mysticism / Tarot forum, if you want to discuss other topics please go to the appropriate forum and open your own thread, do not attempt to hijack this one.

[thirdwave]

thanks thirdwave but a note to anybody that going to use this remember to ask it in the manner of in the best interest of all in volvled:)

totally... well its about being mature at the end of the day...

for example... you don't just start asking for things you want... you got to make sure your asking for what you need... at the end of the day its about getting in your head a reprogramming... and we know how PCs can screw up if you don't do it right...

if you want something ..ask why you want it and get down to the soul root of it... and this is what should be focused on I feel...

although this stuff here can effect you emotionally... its not really about others around you.... that stuff comes into it if you start evoking and contacting beings to assist you and so on..... and that's when magick gets serious and can be very dangerous.. I think you should only attempt it if you are in the company of somone VERY experienced or if you are extremely well researched and educated your self.... like a Shaman or so on...

I have no interest in getting involved in that side of it any time soon...

[meave]

totally... well its about being mature at the end of the day...

for example... you don't just start asking for things you want... you got to make sure your asking for what you need... at the end of the day its about getting in your head a reprogramming... and we know how PCs can screw up if you don't do it right...

if you want something ..ask why you want it and get down to the soul root of it... and this is what should be focused on I feel...

although this stuff here can effect you emotionally... its not really about others around you.... that stuff comes into it if you start evoking and contacting beings to assist you and so on..... and that's when magick gets serious and can be very dangerous.. I think you should only attempt it if you are in the company of somone VERY experienced or if you are extremely well researched and educated your self.... like a Shaman or so on...

I have no interest in getting involved in that side of it any time soon...

u do you have any thing on white magic ?

[empyblessing]

White magick? That could be defined as simply saying "God bless you," which is a form of white magick, "good luck", or "get well soon". One way of thinking of it is that white blesses, black curses.

Personally, I don't believe in either white or black. Non-dualism baby, beyond good and evil. Just Beeeeeeee!

[empyblessing]

Ok so the sex magick thing got lost in the shuffle. Wilhelm Reich, orgone energy, sex magick. I'm curious because what Reich was talking about could lend some validity to sex magick.

[thirdwave]

u do you have any thing on white magic ?

No, nothing persificly...

I dont think white or black mean good and evil though... some people think that black magick means evil magick which i don't think is the case...

[meave]

No, nothing persificly...

I dont think white or black mean good and evil though... some people think that black magick means evil magick which i don't think is the case...

i was think that my self in that case can you give me a link on the differance between posivte and negtive symbolism?

[thirdwave]

I dont think there is such thing as positive of negative symbolism... that's like saying positive and negative eye site.

it what the symbol represents that determines whether it is evil or good.... and that is usually down to the people who created it and what it means for them.

there are sigils all around us... most of them are negative because they are created by greedy people who want to over power and control us... you could call Mc Donald's a negative symbol.... but for the people who own Mc Donald's its an extremely positive rewarding one.

if more people knew how effective all this stuff is, it would be a world where the power is spread out a great deal more than it is now...

TV would have gone out of date a long time ago...

[thirdwave]

Im reading a book called Prometheus rising at the moment by RAW and although its not directly about chaos magick ...it is a very good book that goes very deeply into how humans are created because we are simply computers that receive programming all the time (much like Icke says) ...

[meave]

I dont think there is such thing as positive of negative symbolism... that's like saying positive and negative eye site.

it what the symbol represents that determines whether it is evil or good.... and that is usually down to the people who created it and what it means for them.

there are sigils all around us... most of them are negative because they are created by greedy people who want to over power and control us... you could call Mc Donald's a negative symbol.... but for the people who own Mc Donald's its an extremely positive rewarding one.

if more people knew how effective all this stuff is, it would be a world where the power is spread out a great deal more than it is now...

TV would have gone out of date a long time ago...

positive negitive good evil same meaning different words, so what your saying is the creation of symbols depend on the maker or can a negetives symbols be redirected if so is that where reversed symbolism comes into it?

[meave]

Im reading a book called Prometheus rising at the moment by RAW and although its not directly about chaos magick ...it is a very good book that goes very deeply into how humans are created because we are simply computers that receive programming all the time (much like Icke says) ...

cheers for the book name you can never have to many books :)

[thirdwave]

no worries...

I think that what it is all about is mind programming ....so if there is a symbol that is designed to try and program your subconscious for the benefit of others then its negative .... But we are seeing already that people are braking away from this programming...

its like with having the TV in the back ground and having subliminals pumped into you none stop....

not only is it just words and certain methods that can do it but who knows what is in the frames ...within a spit second..

I checked out that Ted Bundy interview.. and he said like many others say that porn played a role in how he changed.... if people are sitting there masturbating to porn...what better aria is there to tap into people?.... I would bet you there are some dodgy people pushing porn stuff out there.... if that strategy works then it would be a very potent way of inserting programming into people... not that the porn its self is bad... but the other junk being thrown in..

but knowledge is power... and I guess the more awareness means the less manipulation... especially if you can put things in your own subconscious... an anti virus so to speak...

in the book i was telling you about... it goes into how groups have brainwashed people.... all you have to do is take the subject away from all its "oral circuits" (which means everything a human has used to replace its mothers breast from birth) and you put him/her in a place far away from all of that, then you work on killing the ego.... and then offer a new program for the oral circuit... and in time the program will download and you will have your self a newly programmed person... with different values, different sexual desires... different outlooks...

it makes you think how much space we really do have around us to avoid any programming and its not much space really!....

[empyblessing]

Fuck, I need to read that book. I've heard it mentioned time and again from alternative sources.

[chris]

No one is to stupid to do it.... he explained things in a very complicated way and was known for being like this... not only are his texts very old but very self indulgent.
[/url]

I don't think so myself. Crowleys work can be quite sophisticated and parts of it rely on some level of experience. It is definitely not meant for beginners in my opinion. I think that every person has a starting point, some higher than others, but it is just a case of finding your level and working from there.

Crowley did write books especially for people new to it but still, I wouldn't even recommend Crowley to anyone and especially not Carrol...Carrol would love this type of controversy as this is what he tries to provoke, yet I am coming from the standpoint that his books are simply crap. They are like Hi-Tech trainers or some other crappy brand name. Just mush and nothing of substance. Absolutely nothing it is a joke in my opinion. If I were to write a book, I would know that there is no point in doing so unless it hasn't been written or compiled before otherwise I'd be doing it soley for the money or for fame. I think Carrol does it more for fame and a little bit of cash to help him on his ways. Yet there is nothing of substance in there, it is a non alchoholic beer.

[empyblessing]

The endless war of dogs and cats. Will it ever end? :confused:

[lottie]

Please can we get this thread back on topic!!!


Any concerns can be addressed to one of the moderation team or you can pm each other directly- you do not need to air personal issues on the forum!

Thankyou!

[lottie]

Why dont you all just agree to disagree and stop retaliating? PM each other if you want to continue! Anymore comments and im going to have to edit the whole thread and delete all responses regarding this discussion.....

[thirdwave]

Crowley did write books especially for people new to it but still, I wouldn't even recommend Crowley to anyone and especially not Carrol...Carrol would love this type of controversy as this is what he tries to provoke, yet I am coming from the standpoint that his books are simply crap. They are like Hi-Tech trainers or some other crappy brand name. Just mush and nothing of substance. Absolutely nothing it is a joke in my opinion. If I were to write a book, I would know that there is no point in doing so unless it hasn't been written or compiled before otherwise I'd be doing it soley for the money or for fame. I think Carrol does it more for fame and a little bit of cash to help him on his ways. Yet there is nothing of substance in there, it is a non alchoholic beer.


I think both Crowley and Carrol are worth reading, I know Carrol is not exacely original but i still find he has a good way of explaining stuff... Crowely was a bit of a genius but for example if you want to learn about the thoth tarot his book is not exacely a beginers guide to tarot.. even though extremely deep and good.

... I have taken knowledge from both... cant cant compare to the others you have brought up as I have not read anything from them...

[marpat]

The only down side with Crowley is that some of his writings expect you to have some knowledge of his other works.

Personally I find his works not only excellent, well written and authorative, and his colourful, bombastuous, character adds a strong element of entertainment at times, especially in his writings against people like A E Waite.

[lottie]

I dont think TW is promoting him he's just saying Crowley's worth reading, everyone's entitled to look at the information provided before making up their minds, please dont make this thread personal, put across your opinions just remain impersonal, ive already had to delete lots from this thread today!

[marpat]

Genius at what sacraficing children and drinking and avocating eating blood, shit, sweat, urine sacrificed priests or animals blood and sperm, oh and stale menstrual blood, either to be eaten or put or smeared onto sigils No you can't compare this evil man to many.

According to king on the old Icke forum Crowley had been debated in depth

quote: king

i was able to find
counterarguments from Crowley's own books and his own writings.
At the end, we all concluded that Crowley have considered all of those who read his writings (while trying to find the secrets) to be complete morons.

So one must conclude why are thirdwave and marpat promoting satanic scum


????????????????????????

People who follow the teachings of the bible are known as Christians. People who follow the teachings of Crowley are known as practicing Satanists


Wow getting a bit personal now aren't we. In that counter arguement who is defined as 'we all'?

The sacrificing children bit was symbolism for a sexual act but ignorant people take it at face value because you only want to see evil. I could explain it but would be wasting my time.

[thirdwave]

I dont think TW is promoting him he's just saying Crowley's worth reading, everyone's entitled to look at the information provided before making up their minds, please dont make this thread personal, put across your opinions just remain impersonal, ive already had to delete lots from this thread today!

your right, that is all im saying... if someone reads his stuff they are not going to turn into a gremlin and start creating havoc over night ..they will either find it worth reading or they will walk away...

I would never forcefully tell somone what to and what not to read...

if somone is interested in learning about the Divination arts and is into spirituality then I cant see how they would not find him interesting ...even if his personnel not to their taste.

thanks for sorting the thread out! :)

[marpat]

Has anybody defined what chaos magic actually represents? to the ignorant it could look like some sort of excuse to cause chaos, giving the impression of something bad, but to my thinking it is about using non-structured, non-linear methods to gain access to magical forces.

The way I see it is that it is meant to bypass all the rigid, conditioned concepts of the rational mind and get straight into the subconscious.

[thirdwave]

yeah... I can only imagine what some think it means ... I know it was something along the lines or not being as disciplined as the older magicks...

and is kind of like magick on the move...

funny thing is... Crowley was not really a fan of it... and he still get brought up lol...

I think he did not like finding out things could be done without having to do 6 month rituals.... I guess like anything, things advanced.. and move on..

[marpat]

yeah... I can only imagine what some think it means ... I know it was something along the lines or not being as disciplined as the older magicks...

and is kind of like magick on the move...

funny thing is... Crowley was not really a fan of it... and he still get brought up lol...

I think he did not like finding out things could be done without having to do 6 month rituals.... I guess like anything, things advanced.. and move on..

I agree. Crowley was too much into formalised rites and methods, which suited his scientific mindset. I guess a lot of it depends on what type of mindset you have. I prefer structured stuff myself but not as much as in the past. I have grown more fluid with time. Structures can be very convenient but I think in time people tend to move away from those methods as they develop beyond the limitations of the structure.

[damagedbrainn]

yeah... I can only imagine what some think it means ... I know it was something along the lines or not being as disciplined as the older magicks...

and is kind of like magick on the move...

funny thing is... Crowley was not really a fan of it... and he still get brought up lol...

I think he did not like finding out things could be done without having to do 6 month rituals.... I guess like anything, things advanced.. and move on..

Crowley wouldn't have liked it because the aims and goals of most of those who practice "Chaos Magick" are shallow, egocentric, materialistic, and often just downright silly. While I don't think that anyone who finds some sort of fulfillment through practicing such things should really care what Crowley would have thought, they should at least recognize the contradiction and conflict between the two. Crowley most likely would have thought of much of it as "black magick", since it fits into how he personally defined the term. He even criticised one of the unintentional pioneers of Chaos Magick, Austin Spare, as a "Black Brother". Chaos Magick is based on Thelema to a certain extent, but only in a similar way that Theistic Satanism is based on Christianity.

[chris]

There is only one 6 month working that Crowley did to my knowledge and that was with the book of abremalin...It's not exactly like this thing is common...They rewrote this book and found that the new translations had it as 18 months so if this is true, it wouldn't have worked anyway. Crowley had to break early to help out the golden dawn...

Crowley's system is not rigid but anything magical HAS to be structured as it's correspondances which magicians use. If you have no structure then you might as well learn magic from reading Harry Potter.

[deathcultreject]

Huh? Did you read my post too quickly? I give the highest praise to Denning and Philips...I like them only behind Jean Dubouis and that's quite close at that. I was recommending their books over anything else to read about magick because they don't dumb things down but also don't try to deceive their reader into thinking they are god almighty. If your taking offence to my swipes at Carrol then I pretty much stand by them because I don't like Carrol's work that I have read.


What Carrol wrote at first made magic accessable in a time when there was no internet, few occult bookshops, and when the majority of practitioners were on low income with alternative lifestyles.

Admittedly, he made it a bit more dark and scary than it needed to be.

Some of that attitude probably reflects a phase of speed and horror films which his colleagues went through at a time when he may have presumed that he was writing for a very small audience.

He'd cleaned up his act a lot by the time he wrote Liber Kaos which in some ways is an even more concise set of working theories.

[deathcultreject]

I dont think there is such thing as positive of negative symbolism... that's like saying positive and negative eye site.

it what the symbol represents that determines whether it is evil or good.... and that is usually down to the people who created it and what it means for them.

there are sigils all around us... most of them are negative because they are created by greedy people who want to over power and control us... you could call Mc Donald's a negative symbol.... but for the people who own Mc Donald's its an extremely positive rewarding one.

if more people knew how effective all this stuff is, it would be a world where the power is spread out a great deal more than it is now...

TV would have gone out of date a long time ago...

Well said :)

[chris]

What Carrol wrote at first made magic accessable in a time when there was no internet, few occult bookshops, and when the majority of practitioners were on low income with alternative lifestyles.

Admittedly, he made it a bit more dark and scary than it needed to be.

Some of that attitude probably reflects a phase of speed and horror films which his colleagues went through at a time when he may have presumed that he was writing for a very small audience.

He'd cleaned up his act a lot by the time he wrote Liber Kaos which in some ways is an even more concise set of working theories.

Pah no excuse for him:D Crowley made no excuse for not having the internet, nor did regardie although his best work was just compiling the normal information.

[deathcultreject]

Pah no excuse for him:D Crowley made no excuse for not having the internet, nor did regardie although his best work was just compiling the normal information.

Up to you mate, and you know I love you really.

If you're happy with what you're doing then respect to you.

I admire your tradition, you look done on mine.

I can handle that.

I'm not out to convert you, and it would only produce rage if I tried to talk you into stuff that you'd consider as a degrade rather than an upgrade or a short cut.

We can still talk as friends in the overlap where we do feel the same way about things.

The offer stands if you want to ask me anything.

[deathcultreject]

quote: deathcultreject
I got several months worth of old benefits backdated from a Zeus ritual using their epithets.

So it works.

....................

The only reason you got your benefits backdated, is because they owed you benefits, it had nothing to do with chaos magick and Zeus.

If another person who didn't use chaos magick was owed backdated benefits they'd also get those benefits.

You'll have to provide a better example than the one you provided DCR to conclude "it works."

From my viewpoint, I quite like this post, eternal spirit.

In chaos magic, cynicism is a much a conscience as anything else.

So thank you for being my conscience.

In this matter, but not in any others.

[chris]

Up to you mate, and you know I love you really.

If you're happy with what you're doing then respect to you.

I admire your tradition, you look done on mine.

I can handle that.

I'm not out to convert you, and it would only produce rage if I tried to talk you into stuff that you'd consider as a degrade rather than an upgrade or a short cut.

We can still talk as friends in the overlap where we do feel the same way about things.

The offer stands if you want to ask me anything.

I don't really see how much different our views are...If you read my older posts, I say that I regard Denning and Aurum Solis teachings along with the Golden Dawn very highly...I just think that from what I've read from "Chaos Magick" is a primer at best and misdirection at worst.

You said in your previous post that I did not like Denning and Phillips, did you read my reply to that post? I say they are extremely good. By your above reply you make it seem as though we are worlds away from each other but our differences are very small.

[thirdwave]

From my viewpoint, I quite like this post, eternal spirit.

In chaos magic, cynicism is a much a conscience as anything else.

So thank you for being my conscience.

In this matter, but not in any others.

His comment was not true at all IMO...

In fact it is totally clueless to how the NWO has dug its claws so deeply into people... you see most people are owed more "backdated benefits" than they get... but are tricked out of them by mind control and ignorance...

Caos Magick is simply programing... our brains are like computers and from the day we pop out of our mother the hard drive turns on....

we constantly receive programming that creates the people we are... the fears we have... the thoughts we have and so on...

All Magick is in relation to changing the effects of our lives is getting inside your head and re programming stuff....

This does not mean its easy and not dangerous... you only have to look at a PC where it has some bugs and so on to see how much of a mess it can become if you dont know what you are doing....

But if you do know what you are doing and can delete and install a few useful programs then the PC runs better, can do more and so on....

the occult is simply an understanding of our bodies, the universe and reality.... and then if you go deeper into it you attempt to try and make alterations to it...

IMO if the magician is strictly only working to keep his/her mind in good shape and to stay on top of the programming that is forced into them everyday from society then it really is a healthy thing to learn...

if one is just driven by ego and power and does not really have a responsible mind set then he/she is likely to cause trouble and make a mess.

one thing is for sure though, If you live in a world where the understanding of the human mind and body...the universe and reality is locked away and forbidden to people... then you know you are living in a prison and serious changed would be required.

if everyone was taught it at school... then the world would be much more peacful than it is today.

maybe not perfect but allot more intelligent.

[eternal_spirit]

Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

[thirdwave]

Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

I don't care if you believe in it or not.... I am concerned only if I believe in it.

you can believe what ever you wish to believe.

I am %100 convinced that Magick as a whole VERY MUCH works and why the elite have been so obsessed with it.

whether or not I practice it or not... or weather it works for me or not is my buisness.

[marpat]

Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely because you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.

[kblood]

If you dont believe magick works, then its simply because you either dont know what magick really is, or/and your definition of it is to confined.

As mentioned earlier, company logos are magick, like sigils. They are used to make those who see them feel a certain way about these logos. The same goes for idols, movie stars and other popular people. Its becomming more and more controlled, and more and more commercialised.

Even more so, CPR numbers are very much part of a magick system of control. Its a way to make all of us into persons and data, instead of real people. We are because of this percieved in the same way as companies, and sometimes as even less then companies. Because in this system the numbers and value is what matters. Its most of all percieved and felt values though, so its about the exterior more so than the interior. Its making the world superficial.

Ignoring it is to live in the dream world, made and meant to make us ignore the stuff that is going on, or at least accept it as inevitable.

[lizzy]

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely becausse you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.

more brilliant logic from the OTO / military propaganist.:rolleyes::D

[marpat]

more brilliant logic from the OTO / military propaganist.:rolleyes::D


You make it sound as if that is something bad.

Have you any experience of the subject?

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=396372#post396372)
Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely becausse you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.
......................

Evil spirits which I eventually bannished.

Three replies by three different people and no answer to the question:confused:

[marpat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=396372#post396372)
Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely becausse you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.
......................

Evil spirits which I eventually bannished.

Three replies by three different people and no answer to the question:confused:

You can only learn something like that by doing it yourself. You have just admitted that you done magic and it worked so why do you need to ask other people for proof?

So you invoked evil spirits then. Did your ex-satanist friend get you into that or somebody else?

[kblood]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=396372#post396372)
Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely becausse you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.
......................

Evil spirits which I eventually bannished.

Three replies by three different people and no answer to the question:confused:

McDonalds and Coca Cola ought to be proof enough, I thought you would have figured that out for yourself if you read my post. I guess there is a reason why you hadnt figured it out in the first place. Of course, they have been put into our heads for more than a decade now, still they started out the very same way. Chaos Magick is the same principles, just simplified. I guess it is hard to believe how simple it really is.

I always wondered why most magick systems only seem to make it more complicated than it ought to be and really is, the way I see it.

[eternal_spirit]

You can only learn something like that by doing it yourself. You have just admitted that you done magic and it worked so why do you need to ask other people for proof?

So you invoked evil spirits then. Did your ex-satanist friend get you into that or somebody else?

..........................

Yeah sure we went for the big one and summoned up Beezlebob. :eek: but he was using an alias and projected himself to look like spongbob squarepants.

[marpat]

..........................

Yeah sure we went for the big one and summoned up Beezlebob. :eek: but he was using an alias and projected himself to look like spongbob squarepants.


Nice evasion but what really happened? we know you dabbled and something bad happened, you mention the presence of evil spirits. The only way that something like that will appear is if you deliberately invoke them or you do something totally wrong. Perhaps you were doing a ritual or something with an impure or evil intent, it backfired and you suffered the consequences.

What I don't get is why you are asking people to prove to you how magic works when it is evident that you have tried it yourself and that something did actually happen. If it didn't work nothing would have happened, it's as simple as that.

[thirdwave]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=396372#post396372)
Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

Why don't you try it yourself. You must know magic works purely becausse you got your fingers burnt while dabbling, which you admitted in another post.
......................

Evil spirits which I eventually bannished.

Three replies by three different people and no answer to the question:confused:


I answered your question.... if you want to be right about it then great your right....

I don't feel the need to convince you....

[eternal_spirit]

Nice evasion but what really happened? we know you dabbled and something bad happened, you mention the presence of evil spirits. The only way that something like that will appear is if you deliberately invoke them or you do something totally wrong. Perhaps you were doing a ritual or something with an impure or evil intent, it backfired and you suffered the consequences.

What I don't get is why you are asking people to prove to you how magic works when it is evident that you have tried it yourself and that something did actually happen. If it didn't work nothing would have happened, it's as simple as that.
....................

Off topic, my question was give a better example that chaos magic has worked for you.
And no never did anything as suggested with evil intent. There are some who will curse others, even innocents with pure intentions, so the person being attacked didn't ask for it.

But I'll throw in a theory
About seeing and sensing spirits
Psychic attacks and electronic harrasment are they the same thing?

So, if you believe or consider the possiblity that there was once a more technologically advanced civilisation ( such as Atlantis or whatever) than the one we have Today.
Then the ancient stories about aliens and UFO's could have been "faked back then like they are now!"( "Man made technologies holographs etc etc!" )

Same as channelings or spirit apparitions could easily be "faked" it would have been a "piece of cake" for them to trick people, like they do Today!" (If so this would mean al the ancient religious texts are fakes)

Follow the yellow brick road Wizard of Oz, "a magician creates illusions"...

Problem is, how do you define what's a halluconation, a hypnotic suggestion, a spirit, lucid dream, or something electronic like a holographic beam aimed at your line of vision, the point is who can honestly tell the difference and even if it was someone you trusted to make the desicion of what it is/was, how would you know they weren't lying, you wouldn't.

[marpat]

....................

Off topic, my question was give a better example that chaos magic has worked for you.
And no never did anything as suggested with evil intent. There are some who will curse others, even innocents with pure intentions, so the person being attacked didn't ask for it.

But I'll throw in a theory
About seeing and sensing spirits
Psychic attacks and electronic harrasment are they the same thing?

So, if you believe or consider the possiblity that there was once a more technologically advanced civilisation ( such as Atlantis or whatever) than the one we have Today.
Then the ancient stories about aliens and UFO's could have been "faked back then like they are now!"( "Man made technologies holographs etc etc!" )

Same as channelings or spirit apparitions could easily be "faked" it would have been a "piece of cake" for them to trick people, like they do Today!" (If so this would mean al the ancient religious texts are fakes)

Follow the yellow brick road Wizard of Oz, "a magician creates illusions"...

Problem is, how do you define what's a halluconation, a hypnotic suggestion, a spirit, lucid dream, or something electronic like a holographic beam aimed at your line of vision, the point is who can honestly tell the difference and even if it was someone you trusted to make the desicion of what it is/was, how would you know they weren't lying, you wouldn't.


The electronic theory is wrong. It is just an attempt to remove any concept of the spiritual nature of the human soul while trying to explain how psychic pheneomena still occur. It is admitting that spiritual things do happen while trying to bend the cause to a non-spiritual origin.

The magician creates illusions. Do you know why they are illusions? because they do not exist by themselves but are the projections of anothers mind and fade with time, hence they have no existence of their own and are thus illusory.

[thirdwave]

....................

Off topic, my question was give a better example that chaos magic has worked for you.

ok, say for example (which is what it is) I made a Sigil that I created to make my work life easier...

and then over the next two months I get a new office and all the arse holes I dont like move ....

now If I felt that was it working.... its still not evidence for people like you as you will simply confine it all to your limited 5 sense box and say it was just coincidence and it would have happened anyway even with out the sigil...

there for there really is no point offering you any kind of proof or info on it working as you are just waiting with a hammer to smash anything put forward....

and most of the time if you cant smash it you will just ask another question and ignore the answer...

there for BE RIGHT.....

Magick does not work... (unless you are banishing evil spirits)

Im happy for you to believe that.

the thing is, Im not a Magican so I don't KNOW it works... I THINK it does and you would be the last person I would ask for the slightest bit of knowledge or understanding on the occult.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:marpat

The electronic theory is wrong. It is just an attempt to remove any concept of the spiritual nature of the human soul while trying to explain how psychic pheneomena still occur. It is admitting that spiritual things do happen while trying to bend the cause to a non-spiritual origin.

The magician creates illusions. Do you know why they are illusions? because they do not exist by themselves but are the projections of anothers mind and fade with time, hence they have no existence of their own and are thus illusory.

ok, say for example (which is what it is) I made a Sigil that I created to make my work life easier...

and then over the next two months I get a new office and all the arse holes I dont like move ....

now If I felt that was it working.... its still not evidence for people like you as you will simply confine it all to your limited 5 sense box and say it was just coincidence and it would have happened anyway even with out the sigil...

there for there really is no point offering you any kind of proof or info on it working as you are just waiting with a hammer to smash anything put forward....

and most of the time if you cant smash it you will just ask another question and ignore the answer...

there for BE RIGHT.....

Magick does not work... (unless you are banishing evil spirits)

Im happy for you to believe that.

the thing is, Im not a Magican so I don't KNOW it works... I THINK it does and you would be the last person I would ask for the slightest bit of knowledge or understanding on the occult.

..........................................

Note I said a theory and a good one IMO.
Okay thanks for proving that you two have the most overinflated egos on the Forum and believe your own delusions of superiority and the other delsusion which always goes hand in hand with the delusion just mentioned, you're judging others as inferior. Mind you, you're not the best judges of character, meaning Crowley, your guru would be laughing his ass off at you, so will the Elite.

If they where as you seem to believe all powerfull magicians then they wouldn't need all the other methods they use to control and influence others. Have fun massaging each others egos and illusions.

Pass me the sick bag!

[thirdwave]

Note I said a theory and a good one IMO.
Okay thanks for proving that you two have the most overinflated egos on the Forum and believe your own delusions of superiority and the other delsusion which always goes hand in hand with the delusion just mentioned, you're judging others as inferior. Mind you, you're not the best judges of character, meaning Crowley, your guru would be laughing his ass off at you, so will the Elite.

If they where as you seem to believe all powerfull magicians then they wouldn't need all the other methods they use to control and influence others. Have fun massaging each others egos and illusions.

Pass me the sick bag!

Like I said... Be right.... if you want to think you are right then be right... Im not sure what your agenda is here.... you been going on about this now for a long time... no one thinks any differently to the way they did when you first started... so IMO you should just be happy in your knowledge of what you believe is the truth and use that knowledge to your advantage as I have to tell you ..so far I am more inclined to buy a book you try to burn then to avoid it...

As for Crowley IMO the man was a Genius at what he done... although I would not call him my Guru.... I do not wish to be just like him.

[krakhead]

Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.


One example of where I feel a sigil worked for me.

I fell out with a friend, it upset me greatly but they stopped responding to any e-mail or text I sent them.

I'd nearly given up on ever speaking to them again, no contact - either way (I want to make clear I had not attempted to contact them in this time) - for around 5 weeks, nothing, nada.

I decided to try a sigil asking for them to contact me (and this was my major mistake - not being more specific!)

I 'charged' the sigil at 8pm, at 11pm they contacted me - and remember, NOT in reply to anything I had sent.

It was an absolutely horrendous phone call, we haven't spoken since. But all I had asked for was for them to contact me - I got my request answered!

Still, not PROOF, but certainly appears, to me anyway, to be outside of the realms of pure coincidence.

[kblood]

When it comes to magick, either you have to seek out your own proof, or you would need someone to show you proof first hand. I doubt there is anything else that will make you believe it.

Most people dont even believe in telepathy although to many it seems one of the most natural things to believe in. Those who dont believe it says that it takes some very good evidence to prove it, because its so unlikely to be true, at least the from their perspective. Others wonder why they are even trying to prove something they thought everyone knew about.

When it comes to magick it seems much the same. To some it is a way of life. A system and codex to live by, and to others it is brainwash meant to make people believe in spirits and get into cults or whatever it is. Sometimes That is even true, because it seems there are cults preying on those who seek power, just like there are those preying on those seeking enlightenment in other spiritual or religious ways. Still that doesnt prove it all bad.

I dont use magick myself, at least not ritual magick, because there is so much magick in everything we do, that noone goes through a single day without doing some kind of magick. Still I find it obvious that magick is something that means alot to people in power on this planet, so it seems wise to learn about it to figure out what they are trying to do.

This sigil way of doing it, to me that seems logical even. Its simply a way of focusing it. And a simple way to do so. Maybe it isnt always the most effective way, but it seems rather simple and effective to me without having tried it.

[empyblessing]

So what are the limitations of it? I've casted multiple sigils for wealth, money, and lottery wins. So far I'm still poor.

[thirdwave]

So what are the limitations of it? I've casted multiple sigils for wealth, money, and lottery wins. So far I'm still poor.

then what ever you were doing did not work for you.

and magick does not work by its self.... as Grant Morrison put it... if you want to win the lottery you got to buy a ticket...

I would never use magick to try and get more money.... money is nothing.... it does not even exsist.... you could have got your wish buy having a load of paper delivered to your door by mistake as far as the universe is concerned...

[eternal_spirit]

BTW you said you work in an office, would that be Tavistock?

[thirdwave]

BTW you said you work in an office, would that be Tavistock?

I said I work in an Office??

ES dear fellow if anyone on here works for the establishment then it is quite clearly you.... all you do is fear monger and post as many fearful negative links as you possibly can... death... fear..... restriction.... hide..... run....., *believe what I say or you are in deep trouble*... I mean talk about the mind set of the Bush admin, right here on all your posts...

then when you realise that buy that time most people are probably sick and tired of it, you post a joke that goes down about as well as a turd with sugar on it.

I don't believe you are trying to help people for one second, I think your motives are %100 selfish and terribly imposing and pushy and in peoples face.... You have yet again managed to Hi Jack a thread about Magick with your ignorant comments... because you cant handle others having an opinion on it, again another trend loved by the illuminati.


As for where I work, I dont see that as any of your businesses.

[eternal_spirit]

I said I work in an Office??

ES dear fellow if anyone on here works for the establishment then it is quite clearly you.... all you do is fear monger and post as many fearful negative links as you possibly can... death... fear..... restriction.... hide..... run....., *believe what I say or you are in deep trouble*... I mean talk about the mind set of the Bush admin, right here on all your posts...

then when you realise that buy that time most people are probably sick and tired of it, you post a joke that goes down about as well as a turd with sugar on it.

I don't believe you are trying to help people for one second, I think your motives are %100 selfish and terribly imposing and pushy and in peoples face.... You have yet again managed to Hi Jack a thread about Magick with your ignorant comments... because you cant handle others having an opinion on it, again another trend loved by the illuminati.


As for where I work, I dont see that as any of your businesses.
.............

LOL me old mucker, you're the one pushing Crowley, Satanism, New Age, alien agendas all high Freemasonic creations (for the 1000th time research culture creators) Myself and others here and even on the old Icke forum have educated you and showed you the facts many times, so you cannot plead ignorance, you should know the score by now.
Your lines are becoming boring and repetitive attack attack attack repeat repeat repeat

Hijack don't be a hypocrite, you come onto my threads about satanism and post pages of drivel and attack the messenger not the topic.

Go over to Tsarions place ( the mason Rosicrucian) If you want a Crowley bumfest sure he and the other fools over their will oblige your sick perversions, and fill your head full of lies.

Fact = Crowley= Establishment = NWO player intelligence agiencies MI5 etc father of modern day satanism born to a Christian preacher, shouldn't this be a warning, anyone with half a brain and conscience would take heed of this advice.

Work full time disinfo merchant judging by what you post here. Maybe Marpat can take you to his next OTO meet, that's if your names not allready on the guestlist.

[eternal_spirit]

So what are the limitations of it? I've casted multiple sigils for wealth, money, and lottery wins. So far I'm still poor.
...................

The Elite Bankers have this magic trick as explained by Icke and many others known as the financial Banking scam, they literally make money out of nothing, which is really off other peoples labour.

[thirdwave]

.............

LOL me old mucker, you're the one pushing Crowley, Satanism, New Age, alien agendas all high Freemasonic creations (for the 1000th time research culture creators) Myself and others here and even on the old Icke forum have educated you and showed you the facts many times, so you cannot plead ignorance, you should know the score by now.
Your lines are becoming boring and repetitive attack attack attack repeat repeat repeat

Hijack don't be a hypocrite, you come onto my threads about satanism and post pages of drivel and attack the messenger not the topic.

Go over to Tsarions place ( the mason Rosicrucian) If you want a Crowley bumfest sure he and the other fools over their will oblige your sick perversions, and fill your head full of lies.

Fact = Crowley= Establishment = NWO player intelligence agiencies MI5 etc father of modern day satanism born to a Christian preacher, shouldn't this be a warning, anyone with half a brain and conscience would take heed of this advice.

Work full time disinfo merchant judging by what you post here. Maybe Marpat can take you to his next OTO meet, that's if your names not allready on the guestlist.


yeah, ok mate... like I am going to even bother.... It is shocking how you think your views are so important with regards to other people. The most imposing person I have interacted with.

and you continue to try and turn this thread into a row and Hi jack it... after crying to a mod when i left 2 posts on your Crowley thread airing my views about an occult genius....... And I already converse on the Tsarion forum, no need to instruct me there.


Mods how about sorting this ignoramus out?... and stop him from crapping all over any thread he cant cope with?

[drael]

Sorry for the longish post, tried to cut into bits...

ES -

Lulz at proof! Try proving anything - are u really here for example, and not in a vat or a computer? do quarks exists, or are they actually little lines (thats all the tests show, "trails"). Is gravity a "force" or is it actually really fast flying invisible gnomes?

Proof is dumb - especially for the esoteric, which by defination is influenced by perception.

----

Empty blessing -

Money spells not working? If u want, thats the spell - want. If u fear, thats the spell - fear.

Id recommend the kyballion and the contained basic principles of manifestation - breath & will (visualisation and - state of mind). Asceticism is an aspect of traditional magick, but its not about karma its just the fact that if u want, your spell will be about wanting. Tricky stuff. When u dont care one way or the other about money, ur money spell will prolly work! (And no, u cant force a lotto win because the collective intent working on the prize is enourmous). IMO the kyballion clues u up pretty well on the basics. (its hermetic tradition stuff, so older than chaos magick). Its the whole mind and intent that makes the spell.

----

General musings:

Just started reading bout chaos magick. The sigils seem like quite a good idea really, a nice way to encode and formalise intent (although probably not as mentally pervasive as a full ritual).

As far as the subconcious thing goes that certainly makes sense, but there are plenty of methods in psychology that work better for this - like breif flashes of a word, or putting the word in one ear, while u listen to a sentence in another etc. These methods only work if u dont know about the message, otherwise its not subliminal, and the concious mind can regect it. Thus it would be very hard to actually prime the subconcious using these chaos magick methods without closing down the concious minds regection - aka trance.

Breathing, meditation, hypnosis, drugs and to some degree sex and pain would be possible means - but basic breath and mind clearing would work best AKA as - WILL and breath, in traditional magick. Music, chanting, repitition and all those things also would work, but the core is trance and mental "purity/emptiness". Sex is not a pure trance, it contains desire (still can work though, very well for certain things). But the more trance elements we add (repitition, chanting, breath), and the more subliminal symbols we add (lighting, movements, objects, sounds etc), the more it becomes like traditional ritual magick. (they dont do these things for nothing! its to make the mind whole in intent).

The basic idea of a sex sigil would work really well for something ur not too attached to, that others arent either than actually relates to the mindstate of sex (or pain if u use pain, or drugs if u use drugs etc). Id definately use normal trance, breathing etc, rather than sex. Id just draw the sigil, maybe three times for repitition and then trance for a bit. Using hypnotic suggestions this way works really well. It soaks in nice :) U could use some induction methods from hypnosis like walking down stairs with ("relaxing deeper and deeper"), eyelid sleepiness etc. U could use a partner or guide also to trance u down, or a tape or music etc.

I find the idea of paradigm switching quite interesting. This could be very powerful method indeed. Has any one tried paradigm switching? Sounds like a brilliant idea. If u can change ur beleifs, then ur changing the root of the whole mind.

Anyway general impressions, plz correct me if i have any ideas wrong, or if ur experience difers.

[eternal_spirit]

yeah, ok mate... like I am going to even bother.... It is shocking how you think your views are so important with regards to other people. The most imposing person I have interacted with.

and you continue to try and turn this thread into a row and Hi jack it... after crying to a mod when i left 2 posts on your Crowley thread airing my views about an occult genius....... And I already converse on the Tsarion forum, no need to instruct me there.


Mods how about sorting this ignoramus out?... and stop him from crapping all over any thread he cant cope with?

........................

Are you serious or has my common sense and spot on logic and research gone over the top of your head and missed the grey matter inside? Obviously reading your reply answers my question, or maybe you are batting for the other side...

2 posts on my threads :rolleyes:
Here I've just checked the post counts on just one Crowley thread
thirdwave (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/member.php?u=110) 72 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=110&searchthreadid=24416) posts

And I know that almost every post would be you attacking me the messenger. I told you why I reported you for personal abuse and spam (I was told by the mods not to react to anyone calling me names because I'd get spam points and would be banned eventually, so was told to flag posts instead) Push me so far and I push back.

Also, amongst all that trolling and spam is the good info I posted which took me years to learn and I think it's important that others should be able to read this and see the bigger picture, not just stuff put out by pro Crowley disinfo merchants, any wonder I was mad:mad:

:cool:

It's safe to say that you've trolled, took off topic more of my threads.

[thirdwave]

**Hi Jack alert!!**


**Bullshitomeater alert!**

[thirdwave]

Yes it would be a shame to have this thread ruined as its a decent thread, So I am hoping that the mods remove the person who is clearly trying to prevent others from expressing a subject he cant deal with....

its even more disappointing seeing as he has already pitched his tent in 2 or 3 other threads on a smiler subject.... is now completely ignoring the subject and is trying to drag me into a row by trying to wind me up with false accusations and deliberately trying to provoke defence from me... so the thread will be moved to rant where he can ruin it again.

[empyblessing]

So I can't manifest money? How about comfort or someone to pay my bills for me? No? THEN WHATS THE POINT!!!

[thirdwave]

So I can't manifest money? How about comfort or someone to pay my bills for me? No? THEN WHATS THE POINT!!!

My personal understanding of it is, its not really wise to go by materialistic things... but more what is inside.... inner feelings...

for example if you want more money... ask why .... so i can pay my bills... why? ... so i can chill more and not worry..... ahhhhh ok, well then go,

*I Will be more chilled*

*I will be more free*

and if that comes as a form of more money then great...

or be more direct... *I will do brilliant in my work*

its got to be something you believe in and want anyway.... its not going to drop on your lap.... and if it does the chances are its not very good for you...

every heard of the saying be careful what you wish for it might come true.. I think that is relevant to magick in my understanding of it...

its bascilly the LOA... but making an art out of it.... and its a very powerful tool....

and if people are to really get stuck into it it takes lots of time and dedication, focus.

[lizzy]

**Hi Jack alert!!**


**Bullshitomeater alert!**

Grow up , wave, you live in a delussional world , along with marpat.......
and call BS,.......what a total joke

[thirdwave]

*Ignoring Lizzys attempt to try and do What ES did and hijack the thread...*

[thirdwave]

My personal understanding of it is, its not really wise to go by materialistic things... but more what is inside.... inner feelings...

for example if you want more money... ask why .... so i can pay my bills... why? ... so i can chill more and not worry..... ahhhhh ok, well then go,

*I Will be more chilled*

*I will be more free*

and if that comes as a form of more money then great...

or be more direct... *I will do brilliant in my work*

its got to be something you believe in and want anyway.... its not going to drop on your lap.... and if it does the chances are its not very good for you...

every heard of the saying be careful what you wish for it might come true.. I think that is relevant to magick in my understanding of it...

its bascilly the LOA... but making an art out of it.... and its a very powerful tool....

and if people are to really get stuck into it it takes lots of time and dedication, focus.

just bumping this past the hi jack attempts...

[lizzy]

So I can't manifest money? How about comfort or someone to pay my bills for me? No? THEN WHATS THE POINT!!!

If your actually winding tw up, well :D

if not, ......well, brush up on those survival skills.........;)

[lizzy]

just bumping this past the hi jack attempts...
No one is hijacking this thread.....you are crying WOLF:rolleyes:

You do NOT own this thread.....nor will you debate ES?

[kblood]

My personal understanding of it is, its not really wise to go by materialistic things... but more what is inside.... inner feelings...

for example if you want more money... ask why .... so i can pay my bills... why? ... so i can chill more and not worry..... ahhhhh ok, well then go,

*I Will be more chilled*

*I will be more free*

and if that comes as a form of more money then great...

or be more direct... *I will do brilliant in my work*

its got to be something you believe in and want anyway.... its not going to drop on your lap.... and if it does the chances are its not very good for you...

every heard of the saying be careful what you wish for it might come true.. I think that is relevant to magick in my understanding of it...

its bascilly the LOA... but making an art out of it.... and its a very powerful tool....

and if people are to really get stuck into it it takes lots of time and dedication, focus.

Yup, asking for money or people to pay the bills is not the way it works. You need a why you want this. Money doesnt bring the happiness, money isnt even real. They are a means to an end, and that is probably one of the first things you learn in magick. Well, I would like to think that ought to be one of the things that should be learned or understood. Still, so many goes into this with the aim to get wealth, instead of the aim to get a good job, or a big house. Whatever might be the reason money is on the wish list in the first place. If its a car thats needed, well a car could be one for free if very lucky.

The most important part of a spell, or any kind of magick, is its focus. Thats my belief anyway. So I agree with Thirdwaves reply here.

I dont use chaos magick or rituals myself to reach these goals, I just set myself some goals. Easily defined goals, and goals which I know a few possible ways of reaching. Not a requirement though, since that is quite limiting really. I just like to take things slow.

[thirdwave]

Yup, asking for money or people to pay the bills is not the way it works. You need a why you want this. Money doesnt bring the happiness, money isnt even real. They are a means to an end, and that is probably one of the first things you learn in magick. Well, I would like to think that ought to be one of the things that should be learned or understood. Still, so many goes into this with the aim to get wealth, instead of the aim to get a good job, or a big house. Whatever might be the reason money is on the wish list in the first place. If its a car thats needed, well a car could be one for free if very lucky.

The most important part of a spell, or any kind of magick, is its focus. Thats my belief anyway. So I agree with Thirdwaves reply here.

I dont use chaos magick or rituals myself to reach these goals, I just set myself some goals. Easily defined goals, and goals which I know a few possible ways of reaching. Not a requirement though, since that is quite limiting really. I just like to take things slow.

ahhh somone on topic !...


I know what you mean... though I think even understanding how any kind of Magick may work is a help.... as it does help to know how our minds are programs and is the cause of what we go through.... you can almost use a little Magick by knowing this... but truly understanding and believing it..

[eternal_spirit]

quote: thirdwave
now If I felt that was it working.... its still not evidence for people like you as you will simply confine it all to your limited 5 sense box and say it was just coincidence and it would have happened anyway even with out the sigil...
...................
LOL there you go again same old spiel, your label not my reality.

And yes it's not enough proof to convince me and many others that it had anything to do with sigils and chaos magic.

So, have you a better example that this stuff has worked for you?

[marpat]

quote:marpat

The electronic theory is wrong. It is just an attempt to remove any concept of the spiritual nature of the human soul while trying to explain how psychic pheneomena still occur. It is admitting that spiritual things do happen while trying to bend the cause to a non-spiritual origin.

The magician creates illusions. Do you know why they are illusions? because they do not exist by themselves but are the projections of anothers mind and fade with time, hence they have no existence of their own and are thus illusory.

ok, say for example (which is what it is) I made a Sigil that I created to make my work life easier...

and then over the next two months I get a new office and all the arse holes I dont like move ....

now If I felt that was it working.... its still not evidence for people like you as you will simply confine it all to your limited 5 sense box and say it was just coincidence and it would have happened anyway even with out the sigil...

there for there really is no point offering you any kind of proof or info on it working as you are just waiting with a hammer to smash anything put forward....

and most of the time if you cant smash it you will just ask another question and ignore the answer...

there for BE RIGHT.....

Magick does not work... (unless you are banishing evil spirits)

Im happy for you to believe that.

the thing is, Im not a Magican so I don't KNOW it works... I THINK it does and you would be the last person I would ask for the slightest bit of knowledge or understanding on the occult.

..........................................

Note I said a theory and a good one IMO.
Okay thanks for proving that you two have the most overinflated egos on the Forum and believe your own delusions of superiority and the other delsusion which always goes hand in hand with the delusion just mentioned, you're judging others as inferior. Mind you, you're not the best judges of character, meaning Crowley, your guru would be laughing his ass off at you, so will the Elite.

If they where as you seem to believe all powerfull magicians then they wouldn't need all the other methods they use to control and influence others. Have fun massaging each others egos and illusions.

Pass me the sick bag!

You have just contradicted yourself by saying magic does not work and then saying that it does work, even though you specify a very limited role. It either works or doesnt work. I think what you are trying to tell us is that you used it to banish the evil spirits that manifested after your dabbling.

If magic has no power then why do you feel that the satanic elite need to use ritual? you constantly state that they use such powers to dominate and control people but then you tell us magic doesn't work, even though you got your own fingers burnt by it. If magic doesn't work then what they do is harmless and you don't need to bore us with millions of links.

The truth is that you are wrong and you know it. You dabbled and got burnt and have ever since tried to fight against your fear of magic. Not only are you wrong but you come up with some sci-fi idea about how electronics can be used to make people believe in magic. Your arguements are really poor.

Why do you claim we think we are superior? is that an admission of your own sense of inferiority coming out because thats what it sounds like.

[eternal_spirit]

You have just contradicted yourself by saying magic does not work and then saying that it does work, even though you specify a very limited role.

If magic has no power then why do you feel that the satanic elite need to use ritual? you constantly state that they use such powers to dominate and control people but then you tell us magic doesn't work, even though you got your own fingers burnt by it. If magic doesn't work then what they do is harmless and you don't need to bore us with millions of links.

The truth is that you are wrong and you know it. You dabbled and got burnt and have ever since tried to fight against your fear of magic.

Why do you claim we think we are superior? is that an admission of your own sense of inferiority coming out because thats what it sounds like.
.............................
I said it was a theory like in my previous reply:rolleyes: I didn't specify what role, so how can you judge, I know you're not a mind reader.

All I asked from you fundamentalist chaos magick believers is for some proof that this stuff works


BUT as usual you revert too more accusations and name calling, you've allready presumed I was using magic with negative intent with a one time Satanist, and not to mention the other accusations and presumtions on the other threads.

What I post on threads are relevant to those topics most of the time, they are not my own views, or any set belief system, it's information make of it what you will, same as the videos and links etc you post in threads. This is an issue here, you post a bit of info and then your accused of being this that or the other, when it's something from a site written by someone else (the millions of boring links as you call them)

BTW I don't think the Elite are powerfull magicians, if they could cast spells to control the masses then they wouldn't need all the other things they use would they?

There you go again climb down from your high horse with the statement you're wrong.

And learn to quote the correct way, the names on your posts/quotes are higgeldypiggeldy, and you're misquoting and mixing up who's said what, or is that a tactic.

I may drop by later to see if any of you have provided any real proof or evidence that this chaos stuff works?

But if you're just going to call names forget it. Marpat you give nothing and answer very few questions about yourself, yet seems much of the time you want to know all sorts of stuff about others.

[eternal_spirit]

All I asked from you chaos magick believers is for some proof that this stuff works :confused:

Marpat you're one for demanding people produce evidence/proof on most threads/topics you try and debunk....

[marpat]

.............................
I said it was a theory like in my previous reply:rolleyes: I didn't specify what role, so how can you judge, I know you're not a mind reader.

All I asked from you fundamentalist chaos magick believers is for some proof that this stuff works


BUT as usual you revert too more accusations and name calling, you've allready presumed I was using magic with negative intent with a one time Satanist, and not to mention the other accusations and presumtions on the other threads.

What I post on threads are relevant to those topics most of the time, they are not my own views, or any set belief system, it's information make of it what you will, same as the videos and links etc you post in threads. This is an issue here, you post a bit of info and then your accused of being this that or the other, when it's something from a site written by someone else (the millions of boring links as you call them)

BTW I don't think the Elite are powerfull magicians, if they could cast spells to control the masses then they wouldn't need all the other things they use would they?

There you go again climb down from your high horse with the statement you're wrong.

And learn to quote the correct way, the names on your posts/quotes are higgeldypiggeldy, and you're misquoting and mixing up who's said what, or is that a tactic.

I may drop by later to see if any of you have provided any real proof or evidence that this chaos stuff works?

But if you're just going to call names forget it. Marpat you give nothing and answer very few questions about yourself, yet seems much of the time you want to know all sorts of stuff about others.


So if they have no power then why do you constantly go on about them using satanic rituals? if it is harmless then what is the problem?

Did I call you any names there? I don't think so, I just think you are wrong that's all.

If you want proof then learn some of the methods and apply them properly. How can anybody give you proof over the internet? if they told you some fantastic story then you would just not believe it, but if you do it for yourself then you will see. You could go and get proof yourself but personally I think you are afraid.

[marpat]

All I asked from you chaos magick believers is for some proof that this stuff works :confused:

Marpat you're one for demanding people produce evidence/proof on most threads/topics you try and debunk....

Yes I do expect people to give proof in other threads. Physical things like chemtrails leave physical evidence that can be analysed, so they should provide such proof. Spiritual things cannot be measured in material terms and require different methods of proof, but this is not of the materialistic science that should be rigorously applied to physical conspiracy theories.

I don't try and debunk threads just debate them. The truth will always prevail.

[kblood]

BTW I don't think the Elite are powerfull magicians, if they could cast spells to control the masses then they wouldn't need all the other things they use would they?

They use everything they can. They dont want it to be too obvious what is going on, and that is why they use as many methods as possible. To keep us under control, to try and program us with logos and sigils, control us with numbers and databases and at the same time keep us unhealthy by making sure our food supply have too much of the stuff thats good to us, and promote the food that is unhealthy in most quantities. Thats even just a few of the ways.

The problem is if they did it openly it wouldnt really work. It wouldnt be sublimental would it? Spells and magick overall doesnt grant complete power, it is a way to manipulate. What it manipulates depends on its focus.

[kblood]

ahhh somone on topic !...


I know what you mean... though I think even understanding how any kind of Magick may work is a help.... as it does help to know how our minds are programs and is the cause of what we go through.... you can almost use a little Magick by knowing this... but truly understanding and believing it..

Yes :) I mostly try to figure out the basics. That which all the other magick stuff comes from. I even think that in other ways magick is even corrupted. I dont really see how any good comes from sacrificing a goat i.e. which seems to have been one way for it to go. There was a woman who bathed herself in the blood of virgins, in the hope that it would grant eternal life.

As I see it, most the things we do could be seen as magick, just that we are unaware of it. Someone might plan a career and doesnt see this as magick, still it has certain steps to it, the mind is focused on it, and the persons life is lived towards it with certain goals in mind. Some things are ignored, because it would slow the progress to this goal. It seems many doesnt realise that the world around a person with a goal is affected, in many ways. Others will adjust their lives to this kind of person. The wife or husband might have goals, or find goals that compliments this goal. Same goes for friends, who might compete with this persons status and goals.

With magick its just done even more conciously. Some times in ways that isnt common conception of what is possible, like wishing for something to happen and it happens. Realising telepathy is true makes it all easier to understand as I see it, because then it seems more logical that it is this way.

I like to seek to know more about how it all works, and this chaos magick is interesting, and shows some of the simpler ways to do magick. Wether it works or not, that really doesnt concern me much. Depends on who is using it I would think, and how that person is using it. But one thing I do agree with Eternal Spirit on, is that it would be nice to hear of more who has tried this Chaos Magick and what came of it, or ideas about what to use it for.

[marpat]

Yes :) I mostly try to figure out the basics. That which all the other magick stuff comes from. I even think that in other ways magick is even corrupted. I dont really see how any good comes from sacrificing a goat i.e. which seems to have been one way for it to go. There was a woman who bathed herself in the blood of virgins, in the hope that it would grant eternal life.

As I see it, most the things we do could be seen as magick, just that we are unaware of it. Someone might plan a career and doesnt see this as magick, still it has certain steps to it, the mind is focused on it, and the persons life is lived towards it with certain goals in mind. Some things are ignored, because it would slow the progress to this goal. It seems many doesnt realise that the world around a person with a goal is affected, in many ways. Others will adjust their lives to this kind of person. The wife or husband might have goals, or find goals that compliments this goal. Same goes for friends, who might compete with this persons status and goals.

With magick its just done even more conciously. Some times in ways that isnt common conception of what is possible, like wishing for something to happen and it happens. Realising telepathy is true makes it all easier to understand as I see it, because then it seems more logical that it is this way.

I like to seek to know more about how it all works, and this chaos magick is interesting, and shows some of the simpler ways to do magick. Wether it works or not, that really doesnt concern me much. Depends on who is using it I would think, and how that person is using it. But one thing I do agree with Eternal Spirit on, is that it would be nice to hear of more who has tried this Chaos Magick and what came of it, or ideas about what to use it for.


Blood is said to hold spiritual vitality or energy so that when a ritual sacrifice is performed this energy is released to empower whatever the goal of the ritual is. The same for bathing in it, the idea being to try and absorb the vitality, which occurs on an etheric leve rather than the physical, but how effective it was is another matter.

[lizzy]

Blood is said to hold spiritual vitality or energy so that when a ritual sacrifice is performed this energy is released to empower whatever the goal of the ritual is. The same for bathing in it, the idea being to try and absorb the vitality, which occurs on an etheric leve rather than the physical, but how effective it was is another matter.

How 'effective" it is , is not 'another matter', it is the point of the thread right now.

You ask for what experience others have but unwilling to ever touch upon your own.

So if you have not had any experience in this area, why do you assume to know so much?

[empyblessing]

The reason why I don't completely deny its efficacy is because of the fact that much of the elite practice it. I can't see the powerful, busy people in the world performing odd little rituals which have no purpose and only seek to consume their time. Does not compute.

[thirdwave]

the thing I dont get is the ignorance behind the questions like "prove it works"

it is a personal thing because it is to do with ones own life.... people have believed it has worked for years and years and years.... very powerful successful people as well...

so to ask to prove it is a bit shallow... if you want proof than research it and practice it your self... if it does not work then you have your answer.... if it does then you have your answer... Im not sure what all this imposing is really worth or what benefit it has...

I have had my own expirience which has lead me to believe its real.. and it works... I do not wish to be forced to tell everyone about it as its my buinsess and I will only tell people who I feel happy talking to about it and feel have the brains to converse with me properly about it.

so the answer to the question is... Your right ES there is no answer... no one can prove to you it works... so people can make of that what they will.

Regarding the dangers of it... it is no secret that the occult can be dangerous.. of course it can.... anyone that fucks around with it with no knowledge or respect, focus, is an idiot... and one should only even think about doing something if you are %100 clued up and sure about what you are doing... much like shaman... and even then it must not be driven by ego...

So Im not sure what all these Red Lights are for... its like somone standing by the side of the road shouting at people and telling them getting hit by a car is deadly!.... dont cross the road!!! ... and not letting up.

WE KNOW!! :rolleyes: .....

People like Crowley have never made out there is no danger to it.... he never tried to hide the fact that magick was not something to be taken carelessly.... he never really said what he done was right, or wrong... he said its what he does....

he was an extremist and in the end got off on the dangers of it... and liked to see how far he could go with it....he never made out what he was doing was right... or wrong... he simply stated what his choices were and did not encourage people to see him as a guru... he looked down on that...

and on top of that Im not sure what Crowley has to do with chaos magick, it was not really his bag.... all be it chaos magicians learnt alot from him to get chaos magick....

so the bottom line is yet again I have no idea what ES is asking.. what his point is... what he is trying to say...

his questions have been answered... YOU have to find out if it works....

[thirdwave]

The reason why I don't completely deny its efficacy is because of the fact that much of the elite practice it. I can't see the powerful, busy people in the world performing odd little rituals which have no purpose and only seek to consume their time. Does not compute.

there is an occult symbol on a $1 bill.... thats some pretty powerful shit right there...

don't get me wrong I don't think its all down to that.... but it shows that the people who have managed to gain so much power over this planet do have time for it.... now, I would have thought people like that don't fuck around.

As nasty as they are.... and as foolish as they are..... they are clever.... very clever.

there are many things in the occult... you don't have to summon beings....
lucid dreaming is apart of the "occult"... and learning about it and doing it more is very handy...

i spose if we all lived in a perfect world ...all brought up the way we should with the right knowledge of the universe... then magick would not really be needed as we would all automaticly be doing it.... because it would not be hidden knowledge and we would all live it... and all be very good at it...and safe from it....

all the danger comes from being so blind and helpless to it... Im not saying we should all be magicians... that's ones own choice ..but i think people need to learn about the effects of it and how many powerful people controlling the world very very much believe in it and use it and advertise the fact they use it on money that we get up on the morning to earn.

[thirdwave]

this book is a really good little book that is not complicated and very simple... it just gives a taste of the occult...

the guy really lays it down...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Practice-Astral-Projection/dp/0877282463/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

in this book he runs through some exercises to help you learn how to project your astral body...

[kblood]

Blood is said to hold spiritual vitality or energy so that when a ritual sacrifice is performed this energy is released to empower whatever the goal of the ritual is. The same for bathing in it, the idea being to try and absorb the vitality, which occurs on an etheric leve rather than the physical, but how effective it was is another matter.

Well, yes blood does have power, and even more so the power that a sacrifice in itself releases, still I dont see it as worth it. The same amount of power can be gotten in other ways I would think. Using sacrifices, as I see it, is a sign of weakness. There are of course other ways to get blood not really involving sacrifice, but still, I would say I find it best to avoid going down that path. If succesfull, then what would be next?

How 'effective" it is , is not 'another matter', it is the point of the thread right now.

You ask for what experience others have but unwilling to ever touch upon your own.

So if you have not had any experience in this area, why do you assume to know so much?

When understanding some of the basics of magick, then its quite possible to figure out how come some ways of using it works, although you havent tried them at all. Sex magick is powerfull because of the emotions and obvious levels of energy that comes from it. I havent tried using sex for magick... well not actuall sex anyway, but Its imaginable that its quite potent.

How effective it is, still is about who does it, maybe even how many, how it is done and why it is done. I would imagine that if a whole group of people decided to make a sigil which they all made some part of and they all had the same idea and focus for the sigil, then it would likely become even more powerfull by it. Then it would be empowered by several, and unless there is some disagreements on the focus, I would imagine it to be all the more effective.

I am actually more interested in what it could be used for rather than how effective it is. I guess setting a goal for what the effect should be, would make it easier to know wether that effect was obtained, like using it to help bring messages to others.

[drael]

Looks like no-one read my post (bout two pages back)...meh...

Okay summeries - money spells dont work because magick takes ur whole intent, including ur lack and desire for money. If u didnt want money, itd be much more effective. For info, read the kyballion (free on the net) which explains will, how the whole mind makes intent for spells.

And has anyone tried paradigm shifting?

[empyblessing]

So it won't work for anything that's needed. Hearing that makes me sad and angry. I was hoping that maybe there was something that was out there that wasn't just horse shit. I was wrong. Magick is real but it's still bullshit.

Nothing matters. This world is worse then fucking Hell. Goodnight.

[drael]

So it won't work for anything that's needed. Hearing that makes me sad and angry.

Technically it can, but only if u transcend ur need mentally. Thats why even many of the elite live quite minimal lives, even tho they are rich, so their black magick can work.

Nothing matters. This world is worse then fucking Hell. Goodnight.

Life is indeed hard. Very. Anyone who says differently is selling something (either to u, or themselves). I feel life this sometimes as well. Freind i hope u can find the things u need. Is there any support u can get? (freinds, family or even govt assistance?). Honestly, i wish u the best emptyblessing. Im going to send u my intentions.

Be easy on yourself, do whatever u need to to cope, find some little joy if u can, and dont give up - battle through and usually ull make it through...

Theres also outside forces, above and below. Sometimes if u ask for help, theyll assist. Alot of traditional magick asks for this sort of help as well...

May u find enough money,
May u find enough money,
May u find enough money,
Emptyblessing -
So mote it be.....

[coshh]

And has anyone tried paradigm shifting?...maybe. I think I called it "ideological alchemy" though.:p

[marpat]

Looks like no-one read my post (bout two pages back)...meh...

Okay summeries - money spells dont work because magick takes ur whole intent, including ur lack and desire for money. If u didnt want money, itd be much more effective. For info, read the kyballion (free on the net) which explains will, how the whole mind makes intent for spells.

And has anyone tried paradigm shifting?

This desiring of result is actually a barrier. Crowley calls it the lust of result. You can still try and achieve those aims but you have to try and detach yourself from the result.

I remember years ago doing a small rite to invoke the generous powers of Jupiter and within days got an offer of some temp work paying £75 per day. Coincidence? maybe, maybe not.

[krakhead]

Magick is real but it's still bullshit.

Absolutely right!

This world is worse then fucking Hell.

As without, so within? :(

[kblood]

Very interesting Drael. I havent really thought much of it that way, at least not recently. Probably mostly because it has been so long since I have had any need to wish for things to be out of the ordinary.

Detachment of what is meant to happen is very important. I dont think I ever thought of it or felt it as detachment, but the word describes it well. I think it is because magick, psychic and other powers of this kind is spiritual and not physical. Desire for it to happen is physical, which is why wanting it to happen makes it unlikely to happen. Fear of it not happening, makes it less likely, hope that it will happen the same. The experience itself can be emotionally accelerating, or it can be powered by emotions.

I thought of this detachment as selflessness. The feeling of love or oneness might empower whatever is made happen. Telekinesis, telepathy and so on. It some times also makes it all the more annoying, because sometimes telepathy just happens and it might feel so natural that it isnt even noticed at first.

Fear is most of all our mindkiller as the author of the Dune books puts it so well. Its often what makes it impossible for us to use mental abilities or magick in its purest ways. And that is probably what makes it not having effects upon the world which is clearly seen and noticed. Karma seems to be a law much more in effect when it comes to magick. That Ex-Vampire told of a story about trying to use negative magick against a christian with a good heart and a clear concience, and the rituals of sickness and pain had only small effects on her, and some of it even got reflected back on those who did it. Sounded very true to me that story, and from my own experiences that seems true.

Empyblessing, yes magick is mostly useless. It is more a way of life rather than a mere tool to be used. Its rarely something to use to gain brief respite or momentary gains. Still it can be a help to get those things, it still takes more than just wanting it to happen or wishing it. It also takes willing it and making it so.

[drael]

...maybe. I think I called it "ideological alchemy" though.

any interesting experiences?

Seems powerful magick to me...

[coshh]

any interesting experiences?

Seems powerful magick to me...

I don't know because I don't know what you guys mean by the term.

But for me "idealogical alchemy" was a somewhat (to my mind) dangerous game I played where I would immerse myself in an ideology taking on all its dogmas and thought patterns as much as I could until I was entirely convinced of it - with the purpose of ...um, transforming myself ish. By taking on the aesthetic and otherwise power of specific ideologies (that I considered wrong - in the sense of personally, I didn't believe in objectivity in truth or morals in those days) and turning it to other ends. Trying to turn base metals into gold.
I had the image in my head of the archetype of a naive boy going off into enemy territory to claim a treasure, being corrupted seemingly by the enemy, but returning and putting the powers of the enemy to the aims of his own.

And ...in a sense I think it did work that way. And in another sense... the "being corrupted by" or at least changed by... is much realer than one imagined before hand.

The whole time you are always there "sitting above yourself" knowing its a game - and despite that you can be completely and utterly immersed and convinced. Very odd.

It reminds me about what Cioran said, being "swept along with the waves" when being entirely cynical of and unbelieving in them.

It was of course also a good excuse to my parents for my dabbling in belief systems that are taboo (namely fascism - which I no longer dabble in I might add - although I would be lying if I said it didn't change me) "don't worry mum and dad I am just engaging in ideological alchemy - can't turn base metals into gold without playing with base metals, now stop interfering with my conviction!!"

[deathcultreject]

Well if you are so sure this chaos magic works, you need to provide a better example than the back dated benefit story. Because I've allready debunked that one.

You can 'debunk' to your heart's content, Eternal Spirit. I preffer your 'debunking' to the possible alternatives.

Personaly I think that magic would be bad for you because you do your thinking in a narrow and over judgemental little box. The shock might kill you.

If you survived it, you might cling to your old intolerent concepts and become bad for other people.

So I'll make an exception for you Eternal Spirit and say keep away from magical practice for ten years or so please.

If you realy want proof, then ask a practicing magician to do some magic for you.

That's my advice.

[deathcultreject]

This desiring of result is actually a barrier. Crowley calls it the lust of result. You can still try and achieve those aims but you have to try and detach yourself from the result.

I remember years ago doing a small rite to invoke the generous powers of Jupiter and within days got an offer of some temp work paying £75 per day. Coincidence? maybe, maybe not.

"Lust for Result" has been a catchy phrase far a lack of mental emotional discepline.

If you're too attached to an intention and allow the magical attempt to delude you then you over expect the result.

The over expectation becomes like a vaccination to the universe which works against the intention.

Another metaphor; the magical 'energy' needs to flow in an insulated current like electricity. If you dwell on the intended result in the wrong way, then the power gets 'earthed' so to speak.

Even worse, it gets earthed through your own psyche making an idiot loop.

Idiot loops might make a magician train harder, study harder, and become better at magics which aren't for their obsession, but ultimately they aren't freedom.

[lizzy]

Keep on trying trying to reel in the young, the unwary, the ready made programmed ones DCR....intice them into your world of falsehood and deception. Feed them the bollox of magick, have them sit for hours / days / years wasting away in delussion, scribbling trash for 'enlightment', some hoping to see ETE's. Just peddling the new age sheep pen........:rolleyes: that goes for marpet too.

[deathcultreject]

Looks like no-one read my post (bout two pages back)...meh...

Okay summeries - money spells dont work because magick takes ur whole intent, including ur lack and desire for money. If u didnt want money, itd be much more effective. For info, read the kyballion (free on the net) which explains will, how the whole mind makes intent for spells.

And has anyone tried paradigm shifting?

Hi drael, thank you for joining a thread about my tradition. :)

Your unique and enlightened style of unsanity is always uplifiting.


I do practice paradigm shifting, because I don't know any other way to get the bigger picture.

I've gone from being a fluffy vegetarian to emulating the ways of the Klingon Kalis, I've gone from student union politics to anarchist road protester, and I've gone from anti fascism to supporting David Icke.

There are some values and ethics that I don't change. I always support freedom, the multi cultural society, and safety for children.

[deathcultreject]

I don't really see how much different our views are...If you read my older posts, I say that I regard Denning and Aurum Solis teachings along with the Golden Dawn very highly...I just think that from what I've read from "Chaos Magick" is a primer at best and misdirection at worst.

You said in your previous post that I did not like Denning and Phillips, did you read my reply to that post? I say they are extremely good. By your above reply you make it seem as though we are worlds away from each other but our differences are very small.

Sorry, I must have written it badly.

I meant to say your dislike of PC's writing.

Personaly I'm glad that I swallowed my bile over some of it and decided to think about the bits that I do like.

I agree that our differences are small.

[deathcultreject]

Keep on trying trying to reel in the young, the unwary, the ready made programmed ones DCR....intice them into your world of falsehood and deception. Feed them the bollox of magick, have them sit for hours / days / years wasting away in delussion, scribbling trash for 'enlightment', some hoping to see ETE's. Just peddling the new age sheep pen........:rolleyes: that goes for marpet too.

Sounds like cointelpro stalking to me.

Lizzy, I'll quote John Lydon.

"Never trust the ones who shout loudest"

Are you making accusations against me personaly, or have you just clocked me as wearing a different team's football shirt?

Perhaps we could discuss this on another thread.

[deathcultreject]

Fuck, I need to read that book. I've heard it mentioned time and again from alternative sources.

Prometheus Rising is an excellent book.

Chaos magic in it's stricter sense means persuing the craft with focus, like someone who gets to be really good at music, or kung fu, or remembering numbers on trains.

Robert Anton Wilson does a very good job of explaining why magic freaks like me think the chaos attitude to magic is the way forwards.

He's good for a lot of other things as well.

[deathcultreject]

The only down side with Crowley is that some of his writings expect you to have some knowledge of his other works.

Personally I find his works not only excellent, well written and authorative, and his colourful, bombastuous, character adds a strong element of entertainment at times, especially in his writings against people like A E Waite.

I must admit it made me laugh when you mentioned Crowley's hostility against A E Waite.

It's funny, but he did kind of . . . abuse Waite's good intentions.

Crowley was often deffending his bisexuality and headonism against a certain kind of complacency which was the decision to stay safely within Christian morals.

He did it with flair, and he won, fair play to him, but magical communities are still suffering because he made it acceptable for his followers to be too much of a git.

[deathcultreject]

Crowley's system is not rigid but anything magical HAS to be structured as it's correspondances which magicians use. If you have no structure then you might as well learn magic from reading Harry Potter.

I agree.

Crowley had a lot of flashes of genius.

One of them was making a point that a cat is not comprised of the letters C A T.

Another one was saying that it's better to do crappy rituals that you do understand rather than elaborate or 'official' rituals that you don't.

[deathcultreject]

Nice evasion but what really happened? we know you dabbled and something bad happened, you mention the presence of evil spirits. The only way that something like that will appear is if you deliberately invoke them or you do something totally wrong. Perhaps you were doing a ritual or something with an impure or evil intent, it backfired and you suffered the consequences.

What I don't get is why you are asking people to prove to you how magic works when it is evident that you have tried it yourself and that something did actually happen. If it didn't work nothing would have happened, it's as simple as that.

Aww leave him alone.

The poor man's in pain.

He'll talk when he trusts someone.

[deathcultreject]

....................

Off topic, my question was give a better example that chaos magic has worked for you.
And no never did anything as suggested with evil intent. There are some who will curse others, even innocents with pure intentions, so the person being attacked didn't ask for it.

But I'll throw in a theory
About seeing and sensing spirits
Psychic attacks and electronic harrasment are they the same thing?

So, if you believe or consider the possiblity that there was once a more technologically advanced civilisation ( such as Atlantis or whatever) than the one we have Today.
Then the ancient stories about aliens and UFO's could have been "faked back then like they are now!"( "Man made technologies holographs etc etc!" )

Same as channelings or spirit apparitions could easily be "faked" it would have been a "piece of cake" for them to trick people, like they do Today!" (If so this would mean al the ancient religious texts are fakes)

Follow the yellow brick road Wizard of Oz, "a magician creates illusions"...

Problem is, how do you define what's a halluconation, a hypnotic suggestion, a spirit, lucid dream, or something electronic like a holographic beam aimed at your line of vision, the point is who can honestly tell the difference and even if it was someone you trusted to make the desicion of what it is/was, how would you know they weren't lying, you wouldn't.

That's twice now.

Good question Eternal Spirit.

For me, magic is about working understanding, and understanding develops with experience. It doesn't stand still.

Recently I had what I diagnosed as a kundalini rising gone wrong.

A mind control surviver friend told me it sounded like electronic harassment.

I said, OK if it's frequency based harassment I'll make a shield of flexi time and then the frequencies will miss the note. (basic physics except flexable time)

It only took me a few seconds, I lay down cleared my mind and contacted a spirit friend who specialises in flexi time.

Now the problem has gone.

I don't currently have a scientific way of knowing what was going on.

All I know is it worked.

[deathcultreject]

The magician creates illusions. Do you know why they are illusions? because they do not exist by themselves but are the projections of anothers mind and fade with time, hence they have no existence of their own and are thus illusory.


We play with the dance of maya.

When you wake up in a dream and know you're dreaming, you can play with the dream.

If someone wants to wake up completely, then I'm all for it, but I can't help them all the way.

I can support heal and protect them, not much else.

[deathcultreject]

So what are the limitations of it? I've casted multiple sigils for wealth, money, and lottery wins. So far I'm still poor.

I have a money magic spirit living in my house. We all love him.

It's primary function is to bring money to south Wales in decent ways.

When someone has done it a favour and charged him up to become better at bringing money to south Wales in decent ways, they can ask him a favour so long as the favour is . . . they get decent pay for decent work.

He doesn't support bad things.

To date, it has always worked.

I think that one of the reasons that he works so well, is his nature allows people to do magic with him with a clear conscience.

As welsh people say in a rugby song; "only a pure heart can sing"

[deathcultreject]

My best money magic doesn't work by bringing money directly into my own hands.

It works through my deep belief that the people I love deserve better.

So I invoked myself into becoming a living current of good luck to people who are loyal to me. I spent months on it.

They're all doing well, and I do jobs for them.

[drael]

Cosh, yeah thats one form of what i was talking about. The idea, is to use that within magick, by drawing on ritual parts and general methods in the spell from completely differing traditions. Of course outside practice is useful also, and interesting for psychology...

Has any one read "the dice man"?

Hi drael, thank you for joining a thread about my tradition.

Your unique and enlightened style of unsanity is always uplifiting.


I do practice paradigm shifting, because I don't know any other way to get the bigger picture.

I've gone from being a fluffy vegetarian to emulating the ways of the Klingon Kalis, I've gone from student union politics to anarchist road protester, and I've gone from anti fascism to supporting David Icke.

There are some values and ethics that I don't change. I always support freedom, the multi cultural society, and safety for children.

Thanks man. Yeah chaos magick isnt something id use exclusively, but theres some great ideas. Paradigm shifting i find very interesting, because beleif is at the heart of intent. You could hone your will this way. Make it so you can switch beleifs several times in a spell.

Combine a christian prayer with one of crowleys rituals, some chaos sigils with a affirmation style collage and a wiccan appeal to the spirits and end in the egyptian style from the book of the dead :)

[deathcultreject]

The reason why I don't completely deny its efficacy is because of the fact that much of the elite practice it. I can't see the powerful, busy people in the world performing odd little rituals which have no purpose and only seek to consume their time. Does not compute.

As far as I can see, the abusers want the rest of us to do it for them.

Advertisers anchor our hopes and desires to their product or logo.

Satanic ritual abusers force their subjects to feed whatever they're doing.

Sigil magic offers us the hope of claiming it back.

[deathcultreject]

Cosh, yeah thats one form of what i was talking about. The idea, is to use that within magick, by drawing on ritual parts and general methods in the spell from completely differing traditions. Of course outside practice is useful also, and interesting for psychology...

Has any one read "the dice man"?



Thanks man. Yeah chaos magick isnt something id use exclusively, but theres some great ideas. Paradigm shifting i find very interesting, because beleif is at the heart of intent. You could hone your will this way. Make it so you can switch beleifs several times in a spell.

Combine a christian prayer with one of crowleys rituals, some chaos sigils with a affirmation style collage and a wiccan appeal to the spirits and end in the egyptian style from the book of the dead :)

Some of my friends in Yorkshire invited me to a dice man party which was . . . it makes for interesting stories afterwards, and a special kind of glow.

Not for children.

According to interpretations of Austin Osman Spare, switching beliefs generates 'niether niether' or 'free belief' direct it into the spell and you're laughing.

[thirdwave]

Its shocking when you see the usual suspects who are constantly going on at how bad the occult is and the dangers of it....

and then suddenly start to imply those studying it...or looking at the effects of it are delusional and wasting their time.... dreaming away...

LOL

I mean how blatant can one get....

there are obviously people on this forum who simply want to throw rocks in the paths of knowledge....

not only has Magick been practised for as far back as thousands of years... and probably a lot longer, but it is also CLEARLY being practised by the elites of this day and age...who are trying to rule the world with as much power as they can...

Weather one wishes to practice magick or not is and always should be their choice...their business.... but to have a problems with people simply learning about Magick and how it works....what effects it can have, to me is just very bad and shows allot of ignorance or opposition to new knowledge pushed out to people...

......................................


Anyway moving away from the focus of ignorance incredibly imposing views ...

I will let you know about a sigil i created and what it done for me.

I was a bit fed up with my band as we were getting messed around with drummers.... they either over played like crazy, where not good enough, or a dead loss...

I made a sigil simply about getting more success in my quest to build a band around me.....

we actually had a drummer who was ok at the time and we had a gig coming up. All of a sudden he started stopping coming to rehearsals.... he was really messing us about. I could have said there and then that "this sigil" stuff is either a curs or full of shit, but I was not really thinking bout it much....

We got a drummer in last minute to cover the gig for a favour and our bass player also got a call from an old drummer friend who was looking for a band....

When we played the gig with the mate helping us out... it was so much better than the drummer who let us down.... we then had a jam with the bass players mate and he was probably the best drummer I have jammed with my tunes...

He is now in the band and is planning to come out and hang in Avebury with me in July sometime... we have 2 gigs booked and he is always asking me when the next jam is....

So the Sigil did work....it took the required action to make the situation successful....

I took time with the sigil.... and made a big thing of it... and then forgot all about it and tried my best to take it away from my thoughts.... it was only after the band was together again It suddenly hit me ...

It was not only the drummer... I found out why I was getting vocal pains after jams that i have now fixed... i managed to discover a setting on my amp which i never new about which now makes my sound better... and some of the songs I used to have a hard time singing and playing at once have now slot into place more...like I am more familiar with them.....

I am in no rush to do another sigil because I don't think they should be used like confetti.... just for things you have a very clear vision of... a problem you are very familiar and sure about and one where you know what needs fixing and know what the benefits would be...

[krakhead]

We got a drummer in last minute to cover the gig for a favour... and our ass player also got a call from an old drummer friend who was looking for a band....

Your what player? Some sort of experimental thing you got going on there? :p

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdwave http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=404280#post404280)
We got a drummer in last minute to cover the gig for a favour... and our ass player also got a call from an old drummer friend who was looking for a band....

quote krakhead
Your what player? Some sort of experimental thing you got going on there? :p
...........................


lmao, luckily drummer wasn't mis typed bummer. His nick name Slapps botts plays the bums, he'd have a bum kit song - bubbles in the bath by Ivor windy bottom...some can fart tunes.

Think I know what to call my new band you've inspired me, shithouse and the shityasses. When people hear they'll say what a pile of shite, nah reckon other bands they'll shit themselves when they hear how good we are Another bum joke, he plays the ass? yes just being himself.

[thirdwave]

Your what player? Some sort of experimental thing you got going on there? :p

ahhh well most bass players are ass's anyway so it fits :)

just cleaned that post up as i was rushing when wrote it...

[marpat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdwave http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=404280#post404280)
We got a drummer in last minute to cover the gig for a favour... and our ass player also got a call from an old drummer friend who was looking for a band....

quote krakhead
Your what player? Some sort of experimental thing you got going on there? :p
...........................


lmao, luckily drummer wasn't mis typed bummer. His nick name Slapps botts plays the bums, he'd have a bum kit song - bubbles in the bath by Ivor windy bottom...some can fart tunes.

Think I know what to call my new band you've inspired me, shithouse and the shityasses. When people hear they'll say what a pile of shite, nah reckon other bands they'll shit themselves when they hear how good we are Another bum joke, he plays the ass? yes just being himself.

Give him a break will you. You ask people to post their experiences of this stuff then ridicule them.

[eternal_spirit]

ahhh well most bass players are ass's anyway so it fits :)

just cleaned that post up as i was rushing when wrote it...

.....................
Only joking about before, being an ass...looking back in hindsight:D and the arguing spilled over from the Crowley threads. If you think you can get a result ouf the chaos sigil stuff good luck with it.
BTW has he got nice b ass :eek:;)

[eternal_spirit]

Give him a break will you. You ask people to post their experiences of this stuff then ridicule them.
............................
Lighten up was in jest not the best of jokes but there you go, we all get ridiculed at times for our posts.

[krakhead]

Give him a break will you. You ask people to post their experiences of this stuff then ridicule them.

Only joshing like........... :)

[kblood]

Very insightfull questions eternal spirit :)

The answers given given by deathcultreject to eternal spirits questions:

That's twice now.

Good question Eternal Spirit.

For me, magic is about working understanding, and understanding develops with experience. It doesn't stand still.

Recently I had what I diagnosed as a kundalini rising gone wrong.

A mind control surviver friend told me it sounded like electronic harassment.

I said, OK if it's frequency based harassment I'll make a shield of flexi time and then the frequencies will miss the note. (basic physics except flexable time)

It only took me a few seconds, I lay down cleared my mind and contacted a spirit friend who specialises in flexi time.

Now the problem has gone.

I don't currently have a scientific way of knowing what was going on.

All I know is it worked.

I have already tried to convince some of the TIs on this forum to learn more about psychic powers and karma for this reason alone. If the law of attraction, karma and other universal laws are true, or just some universal laws at all, then they apply to everything. Spirits as well as technology, as well as us.

So we can defend ourselves the same way against all of it, or at least decrease the chance of it having lasting effects.

I suspect a forum member who dabbled in magick and probably still does, actually cast magick against me, probably because I claimed to be somewhat immune against magick, and he felt like testing it. A short while after posting this on his forum, I was banned from it, and all my 2-3 messages there dissapeared. At the same time I was drinking some cup soup, and while doing so it suddenly felt like it was boiling inside me. Mostly in the area of my liver.

It was quite annoying and lasted about 3 days. Around my liver I had a pain that was there most the time. Whenever I walked around I could feel it, while sitting I could sometimes supress it for a while. At least I got rid of it before I had to take a day off from work :)

Still I think it could have been worse for me. I was surprised though, since I have had a curse cast on me before, I managed to reflect that back on the caster in a matter of minutes, but then I was in direct contact with this person and knew the persons voice. Makes it easier to know exactly what is going on and what to focus on.

I just think the same stuff works when it comes to technology. That you can block out these frequencies from your head with enough mental discipline.

[kblood]

Problem is, how do you define what's a halluconation, a hypnotic suggestion, a spirit, lucid dream, or something electronic like a holographic beam aimed at your line of vision, the point is who can honestly tell the difference and even if it was someone you trusted to make the desicion of what it is/was, how would you know they weren't lying, you wouldn't.

And to answer this one more directly. I see it as the same things, in the way that this could be like the chicken and the egg thing. Science and their results or spirits and their being, one could be what makes the other able to be real in our minds. It could be that technology and science is what made this reality true, but looking at it basicly, then what would the difference really be? Wether its technology that in the end makes spirits possible, or a greater conciousness of spirits which makes technology and science possible?