I love your work David but I can`t agree with you

[flover]

Hi
I am new to D. Ickes works but I am not new with conspiracy and manipulations imposed on us from an elite few people who consider themselves higher than us ordinary men. recently when I was searching a forum posts I have met a link to download one of the best books I have ever read called : The Biggest Secret. I do not know whether this is illegal or not but I have downloaded it and read about its first 3 or 4 chapters because the title and description was really challenging and as a Muslim I always wanted to face my doubts about my religion and to be able to identify manipulative subjects which has been injected into my religion by those people which David calls them the brotherhood of Babylon. But I was surprised when I saw some BIG mistakes about Islam in this amazing book which leads me to conclude that David Ickes did not himself study much about Islam but he instead copied all the texts about manipulations in Islam from other books he has read because I trust David `s judgment as a researcher and I did not expect to see such bizarre mistakes from him in this book. Let me give you an example: later in the book David asks you a quiz about the story of a man who was born to a virgin and then crucified on a cross ... which is a direct reference to Jesus Christ but when he answers the quiz he says there are many other names for this character in other religions all over the world and one of his examples is Mohammad which is completely untrue. Mohammad does not a story like Jesus, he was not born by a virgin mother nor he raised the dead nor he was crucified o a cross.
So I do not know whether David himself read this thread or not but I want to hear your idea about religions being invented by this so called reptilian race. Everyone of us knows there are certainly weak points in every religion but this doesn't necessarily means that these religions are wholly created by these people to manipulate human thoughts an beliefs. Is it not better to say that this brotherhood tried to manipulate religions from their true meaning by imposing priestly orders on any religion? other than that i am afraid this would be the Biggest Mistake rather than the Biggest Secret!!!

[kerravon]

See "Zeitgeist" part 1, it pretty much puts an end to the religion myth.

[hutanic]

I can not really comment on David's book since i have not read any of them, but if that was what was really written in there then it is indeed incorrect.

As far as religions go, i would say they are all manipulation simply because there is no intermediary between us and great One.

Read different religious texts if you will and pull knowledge that is contained in each one of them and filter what does not fit with yours world view would be my suggestion.

Goal i set for my self was finding truth no matter in what shape will it come not to search for man made constructs to fit in, which religions are.

I do not recommend that movie "Zeitgeist" but do research your self and see what you find, good luck, take care, and hope you find your answers:)

[dedicate]

Your right, flover. David is way wrong about religion. He doesn't see "religion" as any valid traditions handed down to evolving man-kind as a way of making spiritual advances, beyond the normal materialistic constructs usually offered. And to boot, he advances many theories that are incorrect, like the one you mention. It's a sad situation, and from what I gather from recent interviews and writings, David hasn't really advanced much himself as of late. He seems to be in a holding pattern.

I've learned many things from his initial contributions on conspiracy and new world order manipulations,,, Things I did not know about at the time. He opened my eyes to some things. But, I dont learn much from what he has been teaching in the last few years. He's just not adding to the storehouse of knowledge, and is either just rehashing the old stuff, or trying to advance those hightly speculative theories (like DNA matrix constructs.. or Reptilian history patterns) that hold little or no weight. And this total denial of the truth of religion is hurting him, keeping him in the dark. IMO.

[flover]

Thank for all o your answers. I am continue reading David`s Biggest Secret and unfortunately it seems like a conspiracy itself. David consider himself a critic of freemasonry and satanic ritualism yet he exactly write the words which Freemason writers wrote first when they wanted to eliminate the religion they once have manipulated long ago by establishing priesthoods in 17th & 18th century Europe. It is unforgivable when David considers Jesus Christ as a fictional character while talk about Nimrod or Semiramis like actual distinctive historical persons or even Noah or Adam while there are no historical record of their existence as David wants it to be too. It is now clear to me that David Icke is unfortunately aware of these errors and in fact he is not much better than these so-called brotherhood while he just simply give us some info about their activities and in the meantime target the curious minds of his young readers to make them believe that all religions are myth just like Freemasons and many of these secret societies do. I will update my posts about this matter too cause I think David is 50% trustful and for the other 50% maybe dangerous too. In the mean time please keep posting your ideas about it cause I think maybe it is time the truth shall be revealed about David himself. PS: I am not a reptile as far as I know and my father does not have a tail too but I am not so sure about my ancestors :D

[chris]

David Icke is one of those old schoolers...Back then the way to get the conspiracy across was more about entertainment and an exercise in stretching peoples belief parameters, it was not essential that everything was 100% correct.

Since 9/11 there was a shift from entertainment to real political thought and this requires the information to be cleaner than clean.

David Ickes books are full of disinfo. As you said he's not really a researcher, he's a compiler of research and then puts his own spin on it. It gets on my nerves when they spout off second hand information as though it's fact because then other people do as well. Alas, if they don't have any discernment then screw them.

[luten2012]

The very Title of this Thread: "I love your work David but I CAN'T agree with you" implies straight away that David's work isn't entirely for you and you are immediatly defending a dogmatic religious software programme that's been impanted in your psyche from day one. - No offence.

[revolutionary_jam]

Hi
I am new to D. Ickes works but I am not new with conspiracy and manipulations imposed on us from an elite few people who consider themselves higher than us ordinary men. recently when I was searching a forum posts I have met a link to download one of the best books I have ever read called : The Biggest Secret. I do not know whether this is illegal or not but I have downloaded it and read about its first 3 or 4 chapters because the title and description was really challenging and as a Muslim I always wanted to face my doubts about my religion and to be able to identify manipulative subjects which has been injected into my religion by those people which David calls them the brotherhood of Babylon. But I was surprised when I saw some BIG mistakes about Islam in this amazing book which leads me to conclude that David Ickes did not himself study much about Islam but he instead copied all the texts about manipulations in Islam from other books he has read because I trust David `s judgment as a researcher and I did not expect to see such bizarre mistakes from him in this book. Let me give you an example: later in the book David asks you a quiz about the story of a man who was born to a virgin and then crucified on a cross ... which is a direct reference to Jesus Christ but when he answers the quiz he says there are many other names for this character in other religions all over the world and one of his examples is Mohammad which is completely untrue. Mohammad does not a story like Jesus, he was not born by a virgin mother nor he raised the dead nor he was crucified o a cross.
So I do not know whether David himself read this thread or not but I want to hear your idea about religions being invented by this so called reptilian race. Everyone of us knows there are certainly weak points in every religion but this doesn't necessarily means that these religions are wholly created by these people to manipulate human thoughts an beliefs. Is it not better to say that this brotherhood tried to manipulate religions from their true meaning by imposing priestly orders on any religion? other than that i am afraid this would be the Biggest Mistake rather than the Biggest Secret!!!

An interesting post and thanks for the info, I don't think tha David meant that the story of Mohammed is the same as that of Jesus but has similarities.

[boots]

Hi
I am new to D. Ickes works but I am not new with conspiracy and manipulations imposed on us from an elite few people who consider themselves higher than us ordinary men. recently when I was searching a forum posts I have met a link to download one of the best books I have ever read called : The Biggest Secret. I do not know whether this is illegal or not but I have downloaded it and read about its first 3 or 4 chapters because the title and description was really challenging and as a Muslim I always wanted to face my doubts about my religion and to be able to identify manipulative subjects which has been injected into my religion by those people which David calls them the brotherhood of Babylon. But I was surprised when I saw some BIG mistakes about Islam in this amazing book which leads me to conclude that David Ickes did not himself study much about Islam but he instead copied all the texts about manipulations in Islam from other books he has read because I trust David `s judgment as a researcher and I did not expect to see such bizarre mistakes from him in this book. Let me give you an example: later in the book David asks you a quiz about the story of a man who was born to a virgin and then crucified on a cross ... which is a direct reference to Jesus Christ but when he answers the quiz he says there are many other names for this character in other religions all over the world and one of his examples is Mohammad which is completely untrue. Mohammad does not a story like Jesus, he was not born by a virgin mother nor he raised the dead nor he was crucified o a cross.
So I do not know whether David himself read this thread or not but I want to hear your idea about religions being invented by this so called reptilian race. Everyone of us knows there are certainly weak points in every religion but this doesn't necessarily means that these religions are wholly created by these people to manipulate human thoughts an beliefs. Is it not better to say that this brotherhood tried to manipulate religions from their true meaning by imposing priestly orders on any religion? other than that i am afraid this would be the Biggest Mistake rather than the Biggest Secret!!!

Hi flover and welcome to the forum.

Could you please tell me when Mohammad was born and the date the Koran was written?

Thank You.
d
d

[flover]

Hi and thank you all for your ideas
About the title I must say you are right it was better if I could write it in a different tone but consider this fact that I am not a English speaking person and my English writing and/or speaking skills are not as good as many of you :) I just wanted to communicate somehow with other people here from different religions and ideologies so I appologize if my headline seemed dogmatic to you.
Second: You can read more about Mohammad and Quran here in this address:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad
I also thank you for your support.
Third: According to Quran religion was born when Adam and Eve were created so there is only one religion which today seems in many forms due to historical attempts of these people to manipulate it from its true path. We all shall be able to see the true meaning hidden in religion in order the world would be a better place. Even David knows that these so-called brotherhood based its ideology on secularism and so the question is: Why would they want to destroy the belief in one almighty god when they have created it in order to impose their views on people like David claims it is the truth???!!!!
Forth: I am continuing to read David`s The Biggest Secret and this book still amaze me cause it is full of deliberate mistakes and mis information to impose its hidden and offensive agenda in readers mind. Here is another example: David mentions that the meaning of the word ISLAM is to surrender or submit yourself to a higher one yet this is another deliberate mis-translation in order to manipulate readers minds while every one who has a little familiarity with Arabic language knows that its true meaning is TO MAKE PEACE. So you may heard that Muslims say SALAM (Hello) when they meet each other which is the root of the word ISLAM and also one of the many names of god in Islamic texts.
I am looking forward to your posts and thank you for your valuable ideas.

[ekx_dissillusioned]

See "Zeitgeist" part 1, it pretty much puts an end to the religion myth.


full of bogus info, don't watch the movie and then assume its true, check the sources, its bullshit

[northern_light]

Organized religion is just another tool to impose fear and divide and conquer tactics. Some of it may have small truths here and there, but most of those truths are hidden in symbolism and metaphors, mixed in between the bullshit.
To morally and spiritually compromise your free will to a saviour-like figure is absolutely ridiculus in my opinion. It's part of the mentality that got us in this situation in the first place. Think about it, who does it benefit?
At the end of the day, we are our own saviours.

[kasalt]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8123863671663916724&hl=en

Flover, any comment on this video?

[revolutionary_jam]

Here is another example: David mentions that the meaning of the word ISLAM is to surrender or submit yourself to a higher one yet this is another deliberate mis-translation in order to manipulate readers minds while every one who has a little familiarity with Arabic language knows that its true meaning is TO MAKE PEACE. So you may heard that Muslims say SALAM (Hello) when they meet each other which is the root of the word ISLAM and also one of the many names of god in Islamic texts.
I am looking forward to your posts and thank you for your valuable ideas.

Extremely interesting!

[kasalt]

David mentions that the meaning of the word ISLAM is to surrender or submit yourself to a higher one yet this is another deliberate mis-translation in order to manipulate readers minds while every one who has a little familiarity with Arabic language knows that its true meaning is TO MAKE PEACE.

The following are definitions of the word "Islam" as provided by IslamiCity.com - a Muslim website:

Islam is an Arabic word the root of which is Silm and Salam. It means among others: peace, greeting, salutation, obedience, loyalty, allegiance, and submission to the will of the Creator of the Universe.

Islam is an Arabic word derived from the three-letter root s-l-m. Its meaning encompasses the concepts of peace, greeting, surrender, and commitment, and refers commonly to an individual's surrender and commitment to God the Creator through adherence to the religion by the same name.

Submission to the will of Allah, the way of life embodied by all the prophets, given its final form in the guidance brought by the prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.

Submission, acceptance.

http://www.islamicity.com/IslamicGlossary/action.lasso.asp?-Search=fsearch&-database=Services&-Table=islamicglossary&-noresultserror=searchglossary.asp&-Response=searchglossary.asp&-MaxRecords=10&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=Ascending&-op=cn&fsearch=islam&-search.x=16&-search.y=2

[northern_light]

Submission to the will of Allah, the way of life embodied by all the prophets, given its final form in the guidance brought by the prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.

Submission, acceptance.



That part made me cringe. Good find.

[madthumbs]

full of bogus info, don't watch the movie and then assume its true, check the sources, its bullshit

I'm not sure it's bullshit, but I've probably stated it is somewhere. I think it's unnecessary argument that could go back and forth a while getting nowhere. Everything we should need to know about this sick religion is within the contents of it's holy book already including instructed rape, genocide, racism, slavery, infant genital mutilation, female oppression, etc. If people can't see it's wrong for these things, they're not going to care much for what another history book or historian has to say.

[flover]

First of all thank you all for your opposite comments and ideas
Second; I won`t watch any videos cause no video can show the inner truth of a faith or religion. So if you want to see how the people with the same ideas like you murder other innocent people all over the world just watch CNN or any other news channel but this does not necessarily means that you are like them too.
third: As you can clearly see among many different meanings of th world Islam you chose to consider the one that YOU want the other people is the truth in that case you are not so different from David Icke or any other shallow minded secular person.
Forth: Unfortunately for you, you can never find anything like that in Quran ad I am surprised what can you say something about a subject when you do not have enough info about it and do not want to give some of your time reading it. That is why people like David use your lazy minds to impose their baseless ideas on you. What is this rubbish about rape, women oppression and etc in Quran??? please show me and I will change myself cause I believe that truth will prevail and unlike your idea truth is not nothing. Anyway thank you for your kind participation and valuable ideas which help me facing my doubts about my faith and remember that you can not make a difference in the world or among religious people when you simply do not give a Sh***t about their ideas and beliefs unlike David I think there is some truth in every form of belief and if we want to fight the oppression we shall seek that even small amount of truth and add it to our collection of mutual sense.

[mido]

Truth...truth...truth. Personally I'm sick of hearing that word applied to religious beliefs because actually finding the original 'truth' is nigh-on impossible unless you make it a full-time life mission, and even then you'll find contrary 'facts' opposing almost any you've already unearthed.

What we have is a wide range of beliefs, distorted beliefs, perceptions, convenient perceptions, corruptions, manipulated tales and a host of ideas that we each may find acceptable to our own way of thinking.

In the end, religious argument and postulation is (IMO) futile because the only answers you need are already within you. There really is no need to seek saviour from outside, but we do because we're insecure and conditioned to be that way.

I can repect a person holding to a belief - but when they try to convert others or kill in the name of it then it's clearly nothing at all worth advocating.

[boots]

When I see that the bible was written 350 years after Jesus was born and the Quran was written 630 years after the time of Jesus it makes me wonder what went wrong?
These religions are bases on a belief and thats fine if you aspire to a story but they are not the truth for truth is a knowing some thing that cannot be spoken or defended, it just is.

Most of the population believe the MSM and what they see on the idiot box but thats not the truth.

[flover]

There is only one truth and this is shattered into our minds as different minds from different races and cultures. Unless we can reach to a point of a common understanding we can expect to see the whole truth but maybe parts of it due to our own efforts. No one can save himself while he/she is unwilling to listen to the other people ideas and beliefs. Unlike you I am not tired of listening the term TRUTH cause I think the end of this world`s story is a comedy not a tragedy. As Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Hindus or unbelievers we all have access to some of the parts of the elephant body while we are in a dark room with it but the only way we can see that elephant clearly is to turn the lights on and this should be done for all of us in the room so I do not think of a personal redemption but of a social awakening cause in the end like all the comedies the good shall be victorious. Anyway thank you for your valuable insights please continue your posts. I am alos not here to defend my religion or to impose my views upon anyone but to challenge David`s ideology about religious beliefs when he sees only the negative sides of it and do not want to mention many reliefs which religions brought for humanity.

[dedicate]

You got it, flover. A lot of people on this site just don't. When one even mentions "Bible", "Islam", "Jesus" or a dozen other religion terms, that person will be immediately attacked. I've been accused of believing all sorts of things without my ever having said what I believe, or asked how I see things. They would rather just group me up with what ever they believe about "Bible", "Islam, or "Jesus" and formulating an attack from that. And then they say that I'm controled. But anti-religion is just as much a control as pro-religion. They don't see it or they are intentionally trying to stop religion.

This guy madthumbs has been known to say, "Religion is the #1 way they control us", among other baseless generalities. He seems to overlook government and it's power over us that is used primarily to control the population, then... money.. then education.. then TV.. So religion is just 5th or so, in the modern world (Theocracies are different, but notice that is Govenment/Religion)


And that person, tired of hearing about truth. Lost. Hasn't got truth inside him. Wouldn't know it if it bit him.

And your right about Icke. You said it very well. I like David, but he is just mistaken on this subject. -- David says about his theories.. "I just park my tent on a higher plane. I see from a different perspective those same things others are seeing. Those down on the lower planes call me crazy because I say that their is one conspiracy that controls ALL THE GROUPS. But I have just gone beyond their limited perspected of seperate banks, seperate environmental groups, seperate nations, seperate political parties.. it's is just a more advanced view.". He says that. That is how I see my religion view compared to his. -- he has parked his tent way down in the valley and has yet to see what others have seen up above. So why does he not see at least that it might be possible what we are talking about? Instead he says that Religion is a fairy tale, made up, fakery.-- he has a down in the valley view and refuses to entertain anything else.

[element]

Well, what I believe is that all religions hold truth to an extent. But the symbols have been taken literally by the masses. They all come from the same source, but with different culture, traditions, language and people behind it. I believe at the start of the ancient civilisations, the people used certain animals to depict good aspects: like lion's pride and leadership, or birds way of communication, or snakes depicted as crawling on the earth, and reaching for the sky (cobras). It doesn't have to be evil at all. I think the mass of people didn't understand the true meaning behind symbolism, and started to take it literally, and started worshipping sun, moon, animals. Same as with devil figures who are merely your disconnection from spirit, and obsession with body, lower senses and bad traits.(jealousy,ego etc)

Icke then puts it together and tries to connect 'dots' but I was never really convinced by that.. same as with all the symbolism. Symbolism is like a language, and it can have meaning to it, so it gets popular and more used over the ages.
What if I build a house right now, and I put snakes or eagle paintings in it just because I like some animals, and someone in the year 2200 looks at it and says : Conspiracy!!. Well you get it..
Inspiration gets depicted as something evil and dot connecting..

[truthseeker1980]

Hi Flover,

I do understand what he means by it and i'd imagine quite alot on here do too, what element said about all religions coming from the same source may help you understand a little more. What i recommend though is if you dont agree about what he says about religion, take a look at religious symbolism across the globe and you will notice that alot use the same signs, how or why would this be? It cant be co-incidence, also if you have time do your own research, read everyone of the worlds religions books and then draw your conclusion, you will notice that they are all takes on the same stories just written differently with different characters for differnt cultures, that to me is enough proof that the illuminati have constructed all religions to control the people.

My youngest brother used to be as open as me with regards to spirituality and all the things that are not right with the world. He read a little of the quran and then converted to islam just after 9/11, (alot of non muslims did this around that time in London). He convereted to islam as it was the closest to what we had discovered, about the world.

Since then he has a closed mind, sorry to say this but anyone who is hoodwinked into believing a religion, seem to have the same traits, they only believe what is written in a book 600 odd years after the things were supposed to have happened. He still questions theories but anything spiritual he always refers to islam, which may have part of the truth in, but a twisted truth to control the people.

Open your mind and escape your religion.

[dedicate]

"Take a look at religious symbolism across the globe and you will notice that alot use the same signs, how or why would this be?"

-- have you ever heard of Joseph Campbell? That's what your talking about -- myth. And Campell never said that there were similar myths because they are all made up by the same controling human force. He said that our myths were part of who we are.. sort of like the Jungian Architype theory. These myths spring from our innate human consciousness or soul or spirit AND HAVE MEANING.

So there you go.. that's why it would be, if it were true that religions have similar symbols. Not NECESSARILY that they were made up by similar controling people/reptiles. That's only a theory.

Dont listen to Truthseeker. He doesn't know what he is talking about, and should stick to what he does know about. == itemizing credit cards and such.

[truthseeker1980]

I wasnt telling him i knew anything, I said do your own research and decide from there.

As i have said before i know very little and am still learning, i was throwing the angle at which i see religion and always have long before i had even heard of Icke, he just re-itterated what i had always thought and then also like someone said we are born knowing this knowedge, its taken away from us by deception, through religion, education, mind control (TV) and food additives.

Watch Michael tsarions Origins and Oracles and then see if you dont understand what he means.

[dedicate]

Yeh. I heard what you said, and I don't have to go to any video. You said..

-- sorry to say this but anyone who is hoodwinked into believing a religion, seem to have the same traits, they only believe what is written in a book 600 odd years after the things were supposed to have happened --

A gross generalization. And don't appoligize by saying you were refering to just some people, because that is not how the sentence is structured. You present the term "religion" and "hoodwinked" as going hand and hand. That's an assault on religion as I was refering to earlier.

[element]

First of all, I believe there is manipulation in the holy books. That does not have to mean, that there is some Illuminati bloodline reptilians behind it. This is once again, one of the countless mistakes we humans make, always blaming someone else for our trouble. We have to look at ourselves. Manipulation is human behaviour, a lower trait, a part of the ''devil'' ego inside of us. We can all be masters of manipulation if we want to. We have to overcome these unholy traits inside of us, stop thinking we humans are perfectly divine, because we are not!

its taken away from us by deception, through religion, education, mind control (TV) and food additives.


The only one who chooses to do these things is YOU. No one tells you you have to, you have free will. If you don't want to convert to a religion, don't do it, don't like education then don't go to school. It's human behaviour we doubt everything and many only look at the reality of matter, but they deny spirit, because they have no such experiences.
And same about bad food and drinks, you choose. Don't like tv, stop watching.

Healthy body = healthy mind, healthy thoughts = healthy soul.

Stop blaming others for all the trouble, we humans are imperfect and we have to clean ourself.

[truthseeker1980]

I wasn't blaming others, you forget the ruling elite are people also, so yes i agree with you, this knowledge may have been for the greater good but human nature like greed has tarnished it in all releigions, anyway i was giving flover my oppinion of the conclusion i have drawn about religion, not saying that what i say is right.

After researching myself, speaking to people from many different religions and walks of life, reading david's work, and watching both Michael Tsarions Origins and orcales and Credu mutwa, the overwhelming evidence points to all religion being constructed by the powers that be to control the masses and to deter us away from our true power and oneness.

How would you explain ancient identical arti-facts of of crosses, the star of david and the all seeing eye being found all over the world and the religious books all singing from the same hymn sheet? With stories just slightly tweeked to hold weight for that particular region or culture.

[element]

I believe all ancient civ's like egyptians, mayans, indian came from an older mother civilisation. This may have been atlantis, lemuria or whatever. These were good, but became corrupted after some time. They left that continent, and sailed to different places around the globe, giving humanity tribes knowledge about spiritual matter, and astronomy, astrology, maths and more.
All the similar symbolism came from that mother civilisation. The masses of the humans took it literally, and instead of understanding the symbols, they worshipped animals, moon, sun and planets. Only people who set themself free from their lower selves, were getting initiated.

You may say: everyone deserves the truth, that is correct, but humanity isn't divine, it has to learn from its mistakes, and it will receive the knowledge when it is ready for that. It's up to each individual. You can't give gun to a baby, so as you can't give all knowledge to a adult, we have to clean ourselves first before we have the right understanding, otherwise we use it for our own benefits. It's all up to the individual, humanity has proofed through history it cannot work as a whole.

Think about these times. You may know certain truths, but when you tell the masses, you will probably get ridiculed and most will not understand you, how well and clear you may put it anyway. So it was in ancient times. The individual has to look for truth within.

[synergy777]

element good post.

also icke should scrutinise data more eg arizona wilder, brian desbrough, sitchin etc.

icke should look at ommitted texts from the bible eg book of enoch, gospel of thomas.

if one just looks at the two books mentioned above, it destroys the official corrupt version of religion.

then ask yourself why the elite hid/removed these books and why.

then ask yourself, these books tell us the same as egyptain texts, sumerian texts, vedic texts, and new age/icke. so is icke wrong if he calls religion wrong, as he says nothing different to these ommited books and ancient wisdom?

be objective.




i tend to think the essene/nazarene nature of yeshua is the real one and that flavius/paul-saul and ralph ellis have some truths but cannot deny the teachings of the essenes are the same as vedic/buddhist doctrines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_sea_scrolls

Other theological considerations count against the idea. Josephus tells us in his Jewish War and in his Antiquities of the Jews that the Sadducees and the Essenes held opposing views of predestination, with the Essenes believing in an immortal soul and attributing everything to divinely-determined fate, while the Sadducees denied both the existence of the soul and the role of fate altogether.

The scroll authors' beliefs in the soul's survival beyond death and in the resurrection of the body, and their complex world of angels and demons engaged in a cosmic war,

were contrary to the Sadducean belief that there is no resurrection, and that there are no such beings as angels or spirits. For the Sadducees, every person had the right to choose between good and evil, and the scope of humankind's existence was limited to this life. For the Essenes, God ruled and foreordained all events–including every person's ultimate choice to follow after good or after evil–and the significance of each human life would culminate in the soon-to-come Hereafter. It is difficult to imagine how such disparate beliefs might evolve into one another or even be reconciled. This tends to undermine the idea of a strong connection between the Essenes and Sadducees

add in the book of enoch, genesis and daniel, it shows us the watchers/fallen the leader being

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

The Book of Parables appears to be based on the Book of Watchers, but presenting a later development of the idea of final judgement and eschatology, concerned not only with the destiny of the fallen angels but also of the evil kings of the Earth. The Book of Parables contains several references to a Messiah Son of Man, as well as messianic themes. As no fragments of this work were found at Qumran, Józef Milik took the view that this section dates from later Christian times.[6] However, since the term "Son of Man" is a Semitic phrase, and since the Book of Daniel also refers to a Son of Man in a context of judgment, most specialists now maintain that the work is a Second Temple Jewish document, likely composed as early as the late 1st century BC or the very beginning of the 1st century AD.

The Book of Enoch describes the fall of the Watchers, the angels who fathered the Nephilim (cf. the bene Elohim, Genesis 6:1-2). The fallen angels went to Enoch to intercede on their behalf with God after he declared to them their doom. The remainder of the book describes Enoch's visit to Heaven in the form of a vision, and his revelations.

The book contains descriptions of the movement of heavenly bodies (in connection with Enoch's trip to Heaven), and some parts of the book have been speculated about as containing instructions for the construction of a solar declinometer (the Uriel's machine theory).

The first section of the book depicts the interaction of the fallen angels with mankind; Sêmîazâz compels the other 199 fallen angels to take human wives to "beget us children".

"And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it."

The names of the leaders are given as "Samyaza (Shemyazaz), their leader, Araqiel, Râmêêl, Kokabiel, Tamiel, Ramiel, Daniel, Chazaqiel, Baraqiel, Asael, Armaros, Batariel, Ananiel, Zaqiel, Shamsiel, Satariel, Turiel, Yomiel, Sariel."

This results in the creation of the Nephilim (Genesis) or Anakim/Anak (Giants) as they are described in the book:

"And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells [the Ethiopian text gives 300 cubits (135 meters), which is probably a corruption of 30 cubits (13.5 meters)]: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood."

It also discusses the teaching of humans by the fallen angels chiefly Azâzêl:

"And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon."

Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel appeal to God to judge the inhabitants of the world and the fallen angels. Uriel is then sent by God to tell Noah of the coming apocalypse and what he needs to do.

"Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spoke, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world."

God commands Raphael to imprison Azâzêl:

"the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl (Gods Kettle/Crucible/Cauldron), and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin."

God gave Gabriel instructions concerning the Nephilim and the imprisonment of the fallen angels:

"And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the biters and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle"

Some suggest that 'biters' should read ' s' but the name is so unusual that some believe that the implication that's made by the reading of 'biters' is more or less correct. The biters may also be the Anunnaki.

The Lord commands Michael to bind the fallen angels. "And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: (and) to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations."

[marpat]

David Icke is one of those old schoolers...Back then the way to get the conspiracy across was more about entertainment and an exercise in stretching peoples belief parameters, it was not essential that everything was 100% correct.

Since 9/11 there was a shift from entertainment to real political thought and this requires the information to be cleaner than clean.

David Ickes books are full of disinfo. As you said he's not really a researcher, he's a compiler of research and then puts his own spin on it. It gets on my nerves when they spout off second hand information as though it's fact because then other people do as well. Alas, if they don't have any discernment then screw them.


I like this chris, you have hit it on the head. His sources always seem to be the ones that are anti-mainstream anything.

[marpat]

I believe all ancient civ's like egyptians, mayans, indian came from an older mother civilisation. This may have been atlantis, lemuria or whatever. These were good, but became corrupted after some time. They left that continent, and sailed to different places around the globe, giving humanity tribes knowledge about spiritual matter, and astronomy, astrology, maths and more.
All the similar symbolism came from that mother civilisation. The masses of the humans took it literally, and instead of understanding the symbols, they worshipped animals, moon, sun and planets. Only people who set themself free from their lower selves, were getting initiated.

You may say: everyone deserves the truth, that is correct, but humanity isn't divine, it has to learn from its mistakes, and it will receive the knowledge when it is ready for that. It's up to each individual. You can't give gun to a baby, so as you can't give all knowledge to a adult, we have to clean ourselves first before we have the right understanding, otherwise we use it for our own benefits. It's all up to the individual, humanity has proofed through history it cannot work as a whole.

Think about these times. You may know certain truths, but when you tell the masses, you will probably get ridiculed and most will not understand you, how well and clear you may put it anyway. So it was in ancient times. The individual has to look for truth within.

wow, time is a good thing. I am beginning to find people in here that I can actually agree with.

[flover]

Another point of interest in THE BIGGEST SECRET:
David simply put history ad history books behind when he says history is nothing but lies said to further manipulate people`s minds but note this:
He says that Jesus Christ was a myth and such a person did not exist just why? What do you think is his source?
A history book wrote by a jewesh historian named Josephus I think. You can clearly see traces of true intentions of David. He simply address a very old, outdated and uncertain source ( He later that this Josephus later agreed to help to write the new testament by a Roman family!!!!) as a proof to non-existence of Jesus!!! and much later in the next chapter he says that HISTORY is nothing but lies.
It seems that the amount of contradictions in David`s books are more than even those in the bible!!!!:D

[celtic isis]

Guys you need to wake up and see the trolls for what they are - TROLLS.

Most of them are on this thread and i'm reading no further. You know who you are. :(

Icke is Icke, you are you, know your own truth. One day you may be sorry for your actions. No one ever knows the full truth.



Extract from the documentary film Zeitgeist:


« It was the political establishment that sought to historicise the Jesus figure for social control.

It was during this meeting (Council of Nicea) that the politically motivated Christian doctrines were established and thus began a long history of Christian bloodshed and spiritual fraud.

And for the next 1600 years the Vatican maintained a political stranglehold on all of Europe, leading to such joyous of periods as the dark ages, along with enlightening events such as the Crusades and the Inquisition.

It serves to detach the species from the natural world and likewise each other. It supports blind submission to authority. It reduces human responsibility to the effect that God controls everything and in turn awful crimes (war) can be justified in the name of a divine pursuit.

And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies.

The Religious myth is the most powerful device ever created and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish… »

how is this bullshit disinfo? :confused:

Islam = message of peace...now that's BULLSHIT.

[celtic isis]

Another point of interest in THE BIGGEST SECRET:
David simply put history ad history books behind when he says history is nothing but lies said to further manipulate people`s minds but note this:
He says that Jesus Christ was a myth and such a person did not exist just why? What do you think is his source?
A history book wrote by a jewesh historian named Josephus I think. You can clearly see traces of true intentions of David. He simply address a very old, outdated and uncertain source ( He later that this Josephus later agreed to help to write the new testament by a Roman family!!!!) as a proof to non-existence of Jesus!!! and much later in the next chapter he says that HISTORY is nothing but lies.
It seems that the amount of contradictions in David`s books are more than even those in the bible!!!!:D

and you get this conclusion having read all of david's books...oh wait from reading just this one he wrote YEARS AGO.

P
A
T
H
E
T
I
C

:)

[synergy777]

the thing is leaders are better educated compared to the masses, thus used religion as propaganda to motivate the masses and give them casus belli. a king is hardly gonna say, i want the land for its gold, oil and power, and i want you overworked, under paid serfs/proles to die for me, so i can build another palace, get another wife/harem and generally get richer.

why i would say, god spoke to me (like bush said prior to his crusade), god spoke and said, i am the chosen one/king, its me who has to to defend my country, to protect my beloved people, we need to attack these infidels/devil worshippers/terrorists, and do this for our god, our country, our family and your future. if not they will attack us, kill us, kill our wives etc. bingo, you have hordes ready for war.

they go off to fight, the protestors are hailed traitors, and they blame religion, which then overlooks the fact religions upon creation were a philosophy not an imperial tool used by kings/clergy/elite.

[thirdwave]

Hi
I am new to D. Ickes works but I am not new with conspiracy and manipulations imposed on us from an elite few people who consider themselves higher than us ordinary men. recently when I was searching a forum posts I have met a link to download one of the best books I have ever read called : The Biggest Secret. I do not know whether this is illegal or not but I have downloaded it and read about its first 3 or 4 chapters because the title and description was really challenging and as a Muslim I always wanted to face my doubts about my religion and to be able to identify manipulative subjects which has been injected into my religion by those people which David calls them the brotherhood of Babylon. But I was surprised when I saw some BIG mistakes about Islam in this amazing book which leads me to conclude that David Ickes did not himself study much about Islam but he instead copied all the texts about manipulations in Islam from other books he has read because I trust David `s judgment as a researcher and I did not expect to see such bizarre mistakes from him in this book. Let me give you an example: later in the book David asks you a quiz about the story of a man who was born to a virgin and then crucified on a cross ... which is a direct reference to Jesus Christ but when he answers the quiz he says there are many other names for this character in other religions all over the world and one of his examples is Mohammad which is completely untrue. Mohammad does not a story like Jesus, he was not born by a virgin mother nor he raised the dead nor he was crucified o a cross.
So I do not know whether David himself read this thread or not but I want to hear your idea about religions being invented by this so called reptilian race. Everyone of us knows there are certainly weak points in every religion but this doesn't necessarily means that these religions are wholly created by these people to manipulate human thoughts an beliefs. Is it not better to say that this brotherhood tried to manipulate religions from their true meaning by imposing priestly orders on any religion? other than that i am afraid this would be the Biggest Mistake rather than the Biggest Secret!!!


David Icke is simply aware enough to see what religion is and what it was made for.... and he is not in need of it to support him self as a human...

there is lots of info out there that is even labelled as fact for people to re-enforce the religios views in the world... and to claim to debunk this stuff that Icke goes into...

the reason being the truth has been hidden for so long.... and there is still even a fear in man kinds DNA to stand up to religions institutions... like making you look soulless or evil for saying that religions are a crock of shit.

if you want to find out where this info comes from that people like icke talks of then don't go looking for books and websites with the desire to re-enforce your belief.... look outside of that at alternative sources that managed to ask questions and dig deeper....

something like this..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4

the true motives behind religion were killed a long long time ago, which is a shame because it was of benefit to the planet... today we can not think of one thing that any religion has done of benefit to the world... not one thing, other than fill a blank hole in peoples lives.... a blank hole that should not even be there...