Druids and Pagans creation of the Elite?

[eternal_spirit]

THE TOP BLOCK IS WHAT I WAS INITIATED INTO, THE COUNCIL OF 13 CALLED THE GRAND DRUID COUNCIL. They only take orders from the Rothschilds and nobody else. They're their private priesthood. The Council of 33 is directly under them, that is the 33 highest Masons in the World. The Council of 500, some of the richest people in the World--there are 500, actually, some of the richest people and conglomerates in the World--it's their real power as I'll show you in a minute.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEE MUCH OF THE WRITING ON THIS, BUT THIS IS THE ORGANISATION OF WITCHCRAFT. The Golden Dawn is the 4th block up there, and it's the Rothschild's private coven. The Aquarian Arts Festival is the organization that ties all of the Occult Brotherhoods together in St. Paul, The Witches Church of America I was a member of. The Church of All Worlds is located in St. Louis. These are denominations like Northern Baptist, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, etc.

THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, THE SATANIC BROTHERHOOD OF AMERICA, SCIENTOLOGY, UNITY, is the main platform for Witches to be speakers at towards what they consider to be Christian people. The Church of Wicca is another denomination; it's in Greenfield, North Carolina.


THE AQUARIAN ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS FORMED BY ONE OF THE GRAND DRUIDS, ISAAC BONOVITZ, and the American Civil Liberties Union. Its purpose is to pass laws and to sue Christian churches in Federal court for defaming Witches and the Occult, and they have been winning millions of dollars in the Federal courts.


THE GARNARIAN BROTHERHOOD IS THE TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT IN ENGLAND. The Order of the Rose Cross--another word for it is Rosicrucians--they are a sacrifice order. And the Holy Order of the Garter is another traditional English Witchcraft group.

Quotes by John Todd


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16932

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/druid.html


It is a relatively little know fact that one of Britain’s most celebrated, though far from uncontroversial, statesmen, Winston Churchill, was a Druid. In the first decade of the twentieth century the still relatively obscure Churchill dabbled with a number of esoteric organisations most notably the Freemasons and his initiation into Druidic rites appears to have been an outgrowth of this. Churchill was born in 1874 and his father, Randolph Henry Spencer Churchill, had been a Freemason and this may well have provided Winston with his first introduction to the fraternity. However Winston Churchill did not actually join the Masons until after his father’s death in 1895. Although there are different accounts of exactly when and where Churchill became a Mason it seems that he was initiated into the Entered Apprentice degree in 1901 in Studholme Lodge (no. 1591) in London. Churchill subsequently advanced through the Fellow Craft degree and was raised to a Master Mason in March 1902 in Rosemary Lodge (no. 2851). Another version has him being initiated into a lodge in South Africa in 1903. Churchill remained a Mason until 1912.
As well as conflicting accounts of his initiation into Freemasonry there is also some confusion over Churchill’s Druidic initiation, more specifically which of the several Druidic orders did he join.
A photograph in Stuart Piggot’s book The Druids shows a young Churchill flanked by a number of men, some wearing druid robes and others in ordinary suits. According to the inscription this photograph shows Churchill’s initiation into the Albion Lodge of the Ancient Order of Druids in August 1908 at Blenheim, his family home.
Elsewhere in The Druid Tradition, Phillip Carr-Gomm describes the same photograph while stating it was Churchill’s initiation into the Ancient and Archaeological Order of Druids.
Given the tendency for Druid groups to have overlapping memberships and joint ceremonies, it is possible that Churchill was a member of both these Druid orders. As we shall see, as a Freemason he was certainly qualified for both.
The Ancient Order of Druids (also known as the Druid Order) was founded in 1781 by Henry Hurle. Although Hurle does not appear to have been a Freemason he was a builder by trade and so may have been influenced by the rituals of operative masons which provided the basis for Freemasonry (interestingly the Welsh Druid revival owes much to the writings of a stonemason called Edward Williams, also known as Iolo Morgawg). Whether Freemasonry found its way into the Ancient Order of Druids via Hurle’s occupation or not, the latter was certainly heavily imbued with Masonic-like ritual.
The year 1833 was a defining period for the order as it saw a schism over the issue of its future orientation. The majority of members sought to take the order in the direction of a fraternal and benevolent society and they departed and adopted the name United Ancient Order of Druids. The minority retained the original name and continued mixing their fraternalism with mysticism. Both sides in the dispute retained a strong Masonic element and the Ancient Order of Druids in particular had a considerable overlapping membership with Freemasonry.
The Ancient and Archaeological Order of Druids was founded in 1874 by Wentworth Little. Little was a Freemason and his druidic order was designed as an exclusively Masonic society. All of its members had to have reached the degree of Master Mason before joining. The purpose of the Ancient and Archaeological Order was to study the connections between Freemasonry and the druid tradition.
In 1866 Little founded the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia, a project not dissimilar to the Ancient and Archaeological Order of Druids. SRiA members were also required to be Master Masons first and just as Little’s druid order studied Freemasonry and druidry so the S.R.i.A. also concerned itself with research.
It was three members of the S.R.i.A. William Wynn Westcott, Samuel Liddle McGregor Mathers and Dr. W. Woodman who founded the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, an order which has gained a notorious reputation largely by introducing Aleister Crowley to the occult. Little’s Druid and Rosicrucian interests seem to have been brought full circle in 1916 when Nuada, a Duid society and off-shoot of the Golden Dawn tradition was founded. Nuada was based in Clapham, London and was led by G.W. MacGregor Reid. McGregor Reid was a personal friend of Crowley and was also a Chosen Chief of the Universal Druid Bond from 1909-1946 after which he was succeeded by his son Robert (Chosen Chief 1946-1964).
The connections between these orders and Freemasonry are part of a much wider relationship between the two traditions of Druidry and Masonry giving Little’s Druids much to ponder in their research.
The Appletree Tavern in Covent Garden, London was the scene of the landmark meeting in 1717 at which Freemasons decided to organise a Grand Lodge to co-ordinate Freemasonry across the capital and later throughout England. In the same public house, in the same year, the inaugural assembly of the Universal Druid Bond was held, signifying what could be called the institutionalisation of the Druid revival which had begun with the work of John Auberey.
It is said that the first Chosen Chief of the Universal Druid Bond was John Toland, a member of a Masonic organisation called the Knights Of Jubilation. Toland was chief from 1717 to 1722 when he was succeeded by William Stuckley (1722 - 1765). Stuckley was also a prominent Freemason.
Toland’s role in the Druid revival is however questioned. In 1726 he wrote History of the Druids a critical account of ancient Druidry which sits uncomfortably with the notion that Toland was a Druid himself.
Connections between Freemasonry and Druidry crossed the Atlantic. In the United States in the eighteenth century, one Masonic Lodge at Newburgh, New York transformed itself into The Druid Society using the former Masonic lodge for its meetings and adopting much Masonic ceremony too.
Churchills’ own association with both Freemasonry and Druidry were short-lived however and his interest in Druidry appears to have been wholly towards its fraternal character with little or no sympathy for its spirituality. In any event Churchill’s political career took over at this point. Here, Churchill made his name in a succession of ministerial posts, first as Britain’s youngest Home Secretary, and later as Chancellor of the Exchequer and ultimately Prime Minister during most of World War II and again in the early 1950’s.
However there was something of a second wind to Churchill’s esoteric career courtesy of his knighthood and admission to the coveted Order of the Garter. Churchill was installed as a Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter in June 1954. There are a number of competing theories about the origins of this Order, several of which seek to link it to the occult and one in particular to Paganism.
The traditional story is that the Countess of Salisbury dropped a garter at a dance provoking some amusement from onlookers. King Edward III who was present picked up the garter declaring support for the embarassed woman and the event, possibly because it illustrated an act of gallantry, inspired the idea for an order of knighthood consisting of twenty six knights.
Variations on this theme replace the Countess of Salisbury with the Fair Maid of Kent but the outcome remains the same. The motive behind the King’s defence varies too, partly depending on the identity of the woman, but for some there is also an ulterior motive at work. Instead of simply defending an embarassed woman, through his actions Edward III is credited with protecting an entire religious tradition, that of witchcraft.
The beginnings of the twentieth century witchcraft revival was largely the result of the efforts of Gerald Gardner. Gardner was a member of numerous esoteric orders among which was the Ancient Druid Order. Not to be confused with the Ancient Order of Druids, the Ancient Druid Order claims to be the modern successor to the Universal Druid Bond. Gardner’s own contribution to the growing number of esoteric orders (which have since become part of the ‘New Age’ movement) was Wicca, which has in effect become the modern manifestation of witchcraft. Wicca stands today as a ‘denomination’ of Paganism alongside Druidry and there are significant overlaps between the two traditions.
Gardner’s promotion of witchcraft was inspired by a number of sources including the anthropologist Margaret Murray. Much of Murray’s work has since been discredited but is still held in high esteem by some modern witches. Amongst her assertions Murray stated that the garter had been a widely recognised symbol used by witches to signify that they practised the craft. Thus in expressing support for the wearer of the garter, Edward III was offering protection to witches, and the Order of the Garter which developed soon afterwards was suitably imbued with aspects of witchcraft. For example the twenty six members, half under the patronage of the King and half under that of the Prince of Wales, represented two covens each consisting of the traditional number of witches; thirteen.
The Order of the Garter has had a long relationship by association with Freemasonry. An early history of the Order (published in 1672) was written by Elias Ashmole, known today primarily as the founder of the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, but also the subject of one of the earliest recorded Masonic initiations (in 1646). Since the formation of Grand Lodge in 1717, a large number of Grand Masters of English Freemasonry have also been Knights of the Garter.
Since Churchill’s death in 1965 the Druid tradition has continued to evlove.
The Ancient and Archaological Order of Druids was merged in 1966 with the Literary and Archaological Order of Druids to form the Universal Druidic Order, the new organisation being based in Blackheath, London. This merger ocurred under the guiding hand of Desmond Bourke the head of the Ancient and Archeaological Order and subsequently the Universal Druidic Order.
Bourke was something of a lynchpin in British druidry, in addition to the above orders, he is also head of the Ancient Order of Druids Hermeticists which, decades before, had gained attention by holding annual Summer Solstice celebrations at Stonehence between 1901 and 1914. Bourke is also a Freemason and a member or leader of sevaral other quasi-Masonic initiatic orders thus continuing the traditional association between Masonry and Druidry.
The Ancient Order of Druids is still going strong continuing to hold ceremonies but functioning largely social and charitable organisation. The Masonic character is still present, the Order is still organised into lodges (most Druid orders organise themselves into groves) and most of these are exclusively male. Women members are allowed but their lodges are separate.
That a British prime minister should have once been a Druid may at first seem surprising but on reflection Churchill seems to have followed an unlikely tradition of religious pluralism amongst prime ministers. Famously there was Benjamin Disraeli, a Jew. Less well known and, where know, infamously there was Jonh Stuart, the third Earl of Bute. Stuart was born in 1713 and became an Earl in 1723 on the death of his father (the Isle of Bute was the family estate). Educated at Eton, Bute obtained a law degree and had a life-long interest in botany. In 1736 he became a member of the House of Lords. A Tory Bute has the unenviable reputation of having been one of Britain’s most unpopular prime ministers ever having gained the post through royal favour in 1762 and serving in the post until the following year (he was in fact Britain's first Scottish Prime Minister.
Bute was also a Satanist, or at least he was as much a Satanist as Churchill was a Druid, belonging to an avowedly Satanic group though probably for social and fraternal reasons more than theological conviction. The group in question was the Order of St. Francis the most notorious of the so called Hell Fire Clubs of eighteenth century Britain. The Order of St. Francis was founded by Francis Dashwood (hence its name) sometime around 1745. At its core were an inner circle of founding members known as the Unholy Twelve, of which Bute was one. Though several were there for social (and as we shall see sexual reasons) some members were avowedly satanists. Aside from Dashwood, both Thomas Potter and George Selwyn have been cited in this context.
Meetings of the Order of St. Francis were, from 1750, held at Medmenham Abbey (a former Cistercian abbey) and began with a black mass but this was only the prelude for a drinking binge and sexual orgy facilitated by prostitutes (usually dressed as nuns) hired (or coerced) for the evening, the real attraction for members like Bute. According to Daniel Mannix, Bute was a dedicated member, never missing a meeting.
As a member of the establishment Bute was not alone at Medmenham. Dashwood, an M.P. was Postmaster General and among other prominent members was John Wilkes, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Dashwood had also served a turn in this post).
Another member was a poet called Charles Churchill. Unfortunately a familial connection with the Druid Winston is ruled out by Mannix who states in his erroneously entitled book about the Order The Hell Fire Club that Charles Churchill was not related to the family of the twentieth century prime minister.
It was the concentration of influential not to say ambitious political figures within the Order of St. Francis led to the club’s undoing.
Despite being 'brothers' at Medmenham, Wilkes (who was a Whig) and Bute were arch political enemies. In fact Wilkes' most well known campaign involved a series of newspaper articles criticisng Bute and the King which landed him in court. Wilkes won the case and, having become associated with the popular mood, rode on a wave of mass support from which derived one of the most enduring political chants in British history; 'Wilkes and Liberty'
Wilkes attempted to replace Bute as prime minister by leaking the secrets of the Franciscans, their statanic rituals and Bute’s participation. Wilkes was initially successful and Bute was forced out of office following street demonstrations against his misrule. From there on however Wilkes’ plan began to unravel as one by one all the members of the club were revealed including Wilkes himself. Dashwood’s enterprise went into a terminal decline despite valient attempts by its founder to keep it going whilst Wilkes was forced into exile.
Bute continued to exert some influence in court circles and eventually died in 1792.
Apart from in the warped perceptions of evangelical Christians who view anything remotely new age (including Druidry) as Satanic, there is little to connect the Satanism of the Order of St. Francis with the Druids except for the rather embarassing (for contemporary Druids) historical evidence that the ancient Druids practised human sacrifice, something Satanists are perennially accused of. There was however a significant over-lap in the membership of the Order of St. Francis and other Hell Fire Clubs of the time and Freemasonry. Dashwood and Wilkes were both Masons as were other famous ‘Franciscans’; the American Benjamin Franklin and the artist William Hogarth. It seems clear that the Hell Fire Clubs were born out of the same eighteenth century ‘club mania’ that fuelled the Druid revival and the instituitionalisation of Freemasonry, through the creation of Grand Lodge, that we have already referred to.
See also
A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/gym.html (http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/gym.html)
A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/ward.html (http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/ward.html)
A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/hell.html (http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/obscure2/hell.html)

[hagbard_celine]

This is a big question.:confused:

On one level, some indigenous cultures have many of the features of Illuminati control, but in other ways they manifestly do not. Take the Celtic Britons who were there before the Romans. There's no doubt that the Roman Empire was an Illuminati front and its advent is seen as the beginings of Illuminati rule in Britain. Boudicca's rebellion is seen as a last ditch attempt to stop them and keep Britain Illuminati-free. But the Celts had secret societies and orders, they had black magic, the practiced human sacrfice. They fought wars all the time I'll have to think about this for a bit.

[eternal_spirit]

This is a big question.:confused:

On one level, some indigenous cultures have many of the features of Illuminati control, but in other ways they manifestly do not. Take the Celtic Britons who were there before the Romans. There's no doubt that the Roman Empire was an Illuminati front and its advent is seen as the beginings of Illuminati rule in Britain. Boudicca's rebellion is seen as a last ditch attempt to stop them and keep Britain Illuminati-free. But the Celts had secret societies and orders, they had black magic, the practiced human sacrfice. They fought wars all the time I'll have to think about this for a bit.

...........................

Agreed.

There seems to be a link to the Elite and their culture creators to push the modern wicca/paganism movements/religions.

Masons again

[hagbard_celine]

...........................

Agreed.

There seems to be a link to the Elite and their culture creators to push the modern wicca/paganism movements/religions.

Masons again


It's a big subject and we can go into this in much greater depth.

[eternal_spirit]

It's a big subject and we can go into this in much greater depth.
................

Yes it is. I come across bits of info by accident mostly when reading other topics. I'm wondering what others here have to say or even realize, the roots and hidden hands behind such groups.

I accept the culture creators as a possible theory, because they have set up so many fads, religions, and all that goes with it so many times before, for many years. And we have to ask why are they pushing, promoting certain things, it's becasue they want us to accept it, and it's usually not for our own good, example ; another religion, mind prison, sheep pen, it's purpouse control.

[octopusrex]

Don't confuse witchcraft, stanism and druids. It's like saying that a Palo witch is the same as a Huixol Shaman. Each "school" has it's own unique and very independent view of the universe and although all religions and sorcerous practices ultimately join together somehow in the magic web of life, the [I]intentions[I] of each one are drastically different.

In fact, if you go around looking at various independent sorcerors, you will find that their motivations are vastly diferent within the same school. Take organizations like O.T.O, Golden Dawn, etc. Mostly they are orientalists (ie: Bhraminical/impersonalist), but not all Golden Dawn practitioners agree upon the same goals.

Then look at Shamans like the ones in Africa, Lacandons, Huixoles, Oaxacans..

Shinto Shamans...

Everybody is doing stuff in the etheric/spiritual realm - they are all "spiritists" in the strictest sense dealing with "spirits" but not all are calling up demons, like the Solomonics and Goetics.

[hagbard_celine]

I think if I was in the Illuminati at, say the time of the Roman Empire, I would try to infiltrate the native societies with my agents before the Empire overtly conquered them.

I remember in the recent movie of Boudicca, there's this black druid, Magior, who helps bring the queen down by corupting the love-rival of the king.

[paganus]

has not David said,'do not confuse the Grand council of 'Druids,with real Druids'? or words to that effect.its in 'the biggest secret'

[thirdwave]

has not David said,'do not confuse the Grand council of 'Druids,with real Druids'? or words to that effect.its in 'the biggest secret'

Yes, but that does not fit into ES's picture so he does not pay attention to that kind of thing.. (always manages to cake the place with other text though!)

[eternal_spirit]

GERALD GARDNER

The Man, the Myth & the Magick

Part One other parts here
http://www.thewica.co.uk/MH1.htm


It is over thirty years since Gerald Gardner (1884-1964) departed to the spirit world yet his influence still dominates the Craft. Gardner was on a Mediterranean cruise on the S.S. Scottish Prince when he collapsed at the breakfast table and died from a heart attack. He was nearly 80 years old.

Since his death Gardner has been both praised and vilified in the most extreme terms. He has been hailed as the father of the modem pagan revival, the messiah of a religion for the New Age and as a 'kindly, gentle old man'. In contrast he has also been vilified as a sado-masochistic voyeur, a homophobe, misogynist, 'dirty old man', 'a potty old Englishman', a manipulative old rascal', and 'a kinky old goat' ! His contribution to the increasing public awareness of the Craft in the second half of the 20th century has been both lauded and condemned. In the words of an (anonymous) correspondent in The Bridge magazine (Lugnasadh 1995): ' I feel that the Craft would not be in the mess it is in today if Gardner had kept his mouth shut, and practised the rule of silence. He dragged the Craft from the sacred darkness into the profane light'. (How appropriatly Masonic )

Writing shortly after Gardner's death, Justine Glass (1965) summed up this contradiction about him when she said: 'Opinions about Dr Gardner (sic) are so divergent that it seems the truth must lie somewhere between the extremes. He has been described to me as a brilliant scholar, and a man with a veneer of learning; as a loveable, delightful character, and a 'messy old man'. Some say he was a master of witchcraft, others that he had no real knowledge at all, and that he did more harm to the Craft then the persecutions.' The truth, as Glass suggests, must lie somewhere between the extremes, but it is not our purpose here to find it, even if that was possible. In fact, with the passing of the years, it seems very unlikely that the real truth about this controversial figure will ever be known.

Gardner was born in Lancashire on June 13th 1884, the son of a wealthy timber merchant. The family claimed descent from Simon le Gardiner in the 14th century, and another of Gardner's ancestors was baron Gardner of Uttoexeter. In 1807 he was commander-in-chief of the Channel Fleet that faced Napoleon Bonaparte. Yet another ancestor was Grizell Gardiner, who was allegedly burnt as a witch in Scotland in 1640. Her significance was to mean more to Gardner in his later life.

As a young boy Gardner suffered from the 'occultist's disease' - asthma. The family's nanny, Josephine 'Com' McCombie persuaded Gardner's parents that sunnier climes than the North Country would improve his health. She took the young Gerald on winter trips to the south of France, the Canary Islands and West Africa chasing the sun. It was on these overseas trips that Gardner became fascinated by antique weapons. He also taught himself to read by perusing old copies of The Strand magazine. Gardner's education, or rather the lack of it, has always been a mystery. Although it seems he lacked any formal education, in later life he claimed the degrees of a M.A. and Ph.D. and called himself 'Doctor'. There is no evidence that he obtained these at a university in the normal way. It has been suggested that he may have acquired them in the 1930s through his friendship with the colourful, eccentric and controversial Father J.S.M. Ward, of whom more later.

In 1898 Com became engaged to the heir of a tea plantation in Ceylon. (Modern Sri Lanka). Incredibly it seems she obtained permission from Gardner's parents to take the fourteen -year old boy to the Far East. They agreed, providing their son was employed on the plantation and taught the secrets of tea growing. Com, her fiancee and the young Gerald finally set sail for Ceylon in 1900. Gardner was to spend most of his life in the East, in Ceylon and then Malaya and Borneo. He worked variously as a tea grower, rubber planter, government inspector and Customs officer.

During his colonial career in the East he cultivated his study of weaponry, writing a standard work on the Malay kris dagger, and he also became interested in anthropology, archaeology and native mysticism. In the 1930s he carried out archaeological excavations in Singapore, and travelled to China and French Indo-China (now Vietnam) in search of archaeological material. In 1936, after he had retired from the colonial service, Gardner was involved in excavations in Palestine (Israel) and Cyprus. In 1932 he spent some time with the famous archaeologist Sir Flinders Petrie who was excavating a site near Gaza in Egypt. In the period 1933 to 1937 Gardner wrote several articles on his discoveries on the Jahore river for specialist European magazines. His investigations into the curved dagger known as the kris led him to a study of Malay folk magick, and an interest in European occultism and Spiritualism. It is tempting to see him as an Indiana Jones figure at this time.

In 1936 Gardner retired from the Customs Service and, rather reluctantly, returned to England via Cyprus and Palestine. He had previously been back to the 'Old Country' on leave and in fact in 1916 had served as an hospital orderly in Liverpool, before a bout of malaria sent him back East on doctor's orders. On one visit to England, in 1927, Gardner attended a Spiritualist seance and was given a spirit message about his future wife. She was Donna Rosedale, a nursing sister at a London hospital. It was Donna who persuaded him to return to England, rather then staying in the Far East and living out his retirement in Malaya. A decision which was to change his life, and thousands of others. Strangely Donna was never in the Craft, although she was sympathetic to her husband's beliefs and seems to have supported him in them.

In January 1936 Gardner became involved in an archaeological dig twenty-five miles outside Jerusalem. This expedition revealed the existence of a temple dedicated to both the Hebrew tribal god Yahweh and the Canaanite fertility goddess Astaroth. This find revolutionised the study of the Biblical period indicating how the Hebrew peoples had adopted the worship of native deities in addition to their allegedly monotheistic religion. From Palestine Gardner traveled to Turkey, Greece, Hungary and Nazi Germany, before returning to London. There he and Donna rented a flat in the Charing Cross Road, famous for its many antiquarian book shops.

It was during this period that Gardner was introduced to naturism by a liberal doctor who suggested that it might be good for his health. He subsequently joined a naturist club in Finchley, north-west London. In 1938 Gardner's search for the winter sunshine led him back to Cyprus again and on the voyage out he wrote his little known novel A Goddess Arrives. While on the island he also recalled a past life as a sword maker and purchased a piece of land that he would later give to Father Ward.

It is unclear from Jack Bracelin's biography (1960) whether the two men knew each other previously in the Far East. They certainly shared careers and private interests for Ward had been a Customs officer in Burma and was an expert on Chinese secret societies. Both men had also been initiated into Freemasonry while in the East. Ward had been the head of a Church of England school in Burma and in 1918 was appointed director of intelligence for the right-wing Federation of British Industries. When he returned to England in 1929 Ward founded the Confraternity of the Kingdom of Christ as a result of visions he and his wife had of the imminent Second Coming.

In 1930 they established an abbey at Barnet in Hertfordshire as a Christian community under the auspices of the Anglican Church and the Bishop of St Albans. Unfortunately, the Wards and the C of E soon departed company and Ward was ordained as a priest in the Orthodox Catholic Church, which was anything but orthodox. In 1935 he was given the title of bishop within this church. Ward was also a high ranking Freemason and wrote several seminal books on the subject. His theory, which was probably shared by Gardner, was that that Masonry was descended from the pagan mystery schools and had preserved their teachings into the post-Christian period.

During the 1940s Gardner was a regular visitor to Ward's Ancient British Church and his signature appears on one of its documents. He used to attend the services at the abbey wearing, to the amazement of those who knew of his involvement in the Craft, a clerical dog collar! Gardner was later to use the term 'Ancient British Church' to legally register his covenstead at Brickett Wood in Hertfordshire as a legal place of worship. In 1946, when an irate father accused Ward of luring his sixteen-year old daughter into the sect, the unorthodox priest had to flee England. Gardner allowed Ward to re-establish his community on the piece of land in Cyprus previously mentioned. Ward died in 1949 and the Rev. Mother Ward kept the community going until the Cyprus authorities started to cause problems. The Confratemity immigrated to Australia where a small group still survived in Queensland in the 197Os. Cecil Williamson, the original owner of the Witches Mill museum on the Isle of Man, has claimed that Gardner originally purchased the land with the view to establishing a temple of Aphrodite on the island. Unfortunately the locals were not happy about the idea and opposed the planning permission.

In 1938 there were rumors of war in Europe and Gardner volunteered to be an Air Raid Precaution Warden. At this period, through his contacts in naturist circles, he had met many interesting people who were involved in astrology, Spiritualism and the occult. With the threat of air raids if war broke out, the Gardners moved out of their London flat near Victoria Station and relocated to the New Forest area of Hampshire where they already had friends. While out cycling one day Gardner came across the Rosicrucian Theater in Christchurch. This was being run by a flamboyant character called Alexander Sullivan (Frater Aurelis), who was the founder of the Crotona Fellowship of the Rosy Cross. The CRF had began life in 1911 as The Order of Twelve, but had been disbanded during the Great War when many occult lodges and groups had been forced to close. It was revived in 1920 and in 1933 Mabel Besant-Scott, daughter of Annie Besant who had succeeded Madame Blavatsky as head of the Theosophical Society, joined it. Besant-Scott held high office in the Order of International Co-Freemasonry, an esoteric form of Masonry founded in France in the 1890s which admitted both men and women to its lodges and attracted the membership of many occultists. The group in the 1930s practised a combination of Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry, but it collapsed in the 1940s after the death of Sullivan who had claimed to be immortal! Gardner had become a Mason in the Far East, and letters allegedly exist showing that he was a Co-Mason around 1935.

In 1938 Besant-Scott and Sullivan founded the Rosicrucian Theater. It seems that Sullivan had aspirations to be, or may even had been, a Shakespearean actor and his role at the theater was as actor manager and playwright. As well as offering plays on subjects such as druidism and Pythagoras, the theater also staged lectures on hypnotism, practical occultism and Esoteric Christianity - a heady mixture that seems to have attracted Gardner and other people in the area who were interested in the occult. Gardner attended several of the plays and, if photographic evidence is reliable, may even had acted in one or two.

During his visits to the theater Gardener noticed a group of people belonging to the Fellowship who stood apart from the rest. According to Bracelin (1960), they had a more serious interest in the occult, held magical beliefs and recognised Gardner from shared past lives. They wanted Gardner to join their 'inner circle' and said : " You have belonged to us in the past, why don't you come back to us."

Gardner was to discover that in fact they were a coven of local witches in the New Forest who were using the theater as a recruiting ground. They further explained that they were Co-Masons who had followed Besant-Scott to Hampshire in the early 193Os. One of them was certainly Dafo (Mrs Woodford-Grimes), a private music teacher who lived in Christchurch and was at the time the Maiden of the coven. She is mentioned in the original programs of the plays at the theater and was later to become High Priestess of the coven. She also features in the list of shareholders of Ancient Crafts Ltd, a company Gardner formed in the 1940s when his own group met at Brickett Wood, and she was present at Doreen Valiente's initiation into Gardnerian Wicca in 1953.

Gardner was invited to join the Craft and Bracelin says: ' Thus it was that, a few days after the war had started [3 September 1939] he was taken to a big house in the neighborhood. This belonged to 'Old Dorothy' - a lady of note in the district, 'county' and very well-to-do.' (165). It was in this house that Gardner was initiated into the Craft.

Of course, not everyone believes this story. As late as 1980 Professor Jeffrey B. Russell boldly stated: 'In fact there is no evidence that Old Dorothy ever existed ... (153). Aidan Kelly, the scourge of modem Wicca, stated even more boldly that Gardner, Dafo and Old Dorothy invented modem witchcraft on the evening of the full moon of September 1939 over their Horlicks, although sadly he does not give the exact time! (Kelly 1991:30). Recent rumors from the States however hint that he may now accept the idea that Gardner was initiated into a pre-existing New Forest coven - but that it may only date from 1935! Doreen Valiente has at least established that Dorothy Clutterbuck-Fordham (1880-1951) was a real person and actually existed. She has also identified the house in the New Forest owned by Old Dorothy where Gardner was initiated (Farrar 1984).

Independent evidence for the existence of the New Forest coven also comes from the novelist Louis Wilkinson. In the 1950s he told the occult writer Francis King that in the late thirties he had become friendly with the members of a witches coven in the Forest. Wilkinson claimed that ' the social composition of the group was a peculiar amalgam of middle-class intellectuals with the local peasantry.' (King 1970:141). King, a sceptic about modem witch survivals, seems to have been convinced by the authenticity of the coven, especially because of Wilkinson's descriptions of their use of a 'flying ointment' and the fly agaric toadstool to induce Otherworldly visions. King however was of the opinion that Gardner did not find the simple ceremonies of the group to his liking and 'decided to found a more elaborate and romanticised witch cult of his own' (142), with the help of Aleister Crowley.

If this coven did exist, and the evidence seems to suggest it did, when did it originate and why did it have such a 'peculiar amalgam' of social types as members? One possible explanation is given by E.W. Liddell (1994). It is alleged that the group derived from a Hampshire coven founded by the Essex cunning man George Pickingill in the 186Os. The group disbanded during the Great War, but was resurrected by some of its elderly members in the 192Os. It is claimed that during the 1930s there was an influx of 'middle-class intellectuals' into the group and these were presumably the members of the Rosicrucian Theater encountered by Gardner. Liddell claims that the newcomers were influenced by the theories of Dr Margaret Murray and that, in common with other traditional groups, it was male orientated and exclusively worshipped the Homed God.

Recently another speculative theory about the origin of the New Forest coven has emerged from the shadows. According to the neo-druidic magazine Aisling 4 8 (1995), it was an offshoot of an organisation called the Order of Woodland Chivalry which was active in the area at the time. This Order was based on the ideas of an American called Ernest Thompson Seton, who combined woodcraft lore with Native American beliefs to produce an alternative scouting movement for boys and adults. In its English incarnation in the 1930s it met in the New Forest and allegedly practised rituals involving the casting of circles and Anglo-Saxon imagery. the group practised a 'back to nature' philosophy which allegedly also involved '...reading the poetry of Victor Neuburg in order to invoke pagan deities'. (Aisling 1995:13). This, allegedly, was the 'real' New Forest coven contacted by Gardner, who was (allegedly)a member of the OWC. At the time of writing (December 1996) we are still awaiting issue # 9 of Aisling which has promised further 'revelations'.

Kelly has attempted, with some desperation and with little knowledge of the British occult scene, to recreate (with the emphasis on 'create') a membership list for the New Forest coven. His dream team consisted of Dolores North (aka Madeline Montalban), George Watson McGregor ( Chosen Chief of the Druid Order), the Rev. J.S.M. Ward, Mabel Besant-Scott, George Sullivan, and Colonel Charles Seymour and Christine Hartley (of the Fraternity of the Inner Light).

Of these, Madeline Montalban certainly knew Gardner in the 1940s and seems to have revelled in the title of the 'Witch of St Giles' - the area of the West End of London where she lived. Madeline also told me that she had typed the manuscript of Gardner's occult novel High Magic's Aid. She seems to have had contacts with other witches in London during the war, who had nothing to do with Gardner, and she was also private seer to Lord Mountbatten, whose family home is in the New Forest area. Liddell (1994) claims that she sponsored Gardner into a Co-Mason lodge in 1945. Through this lodge Gardner allegedly gained an introduction to a hereditary coven in Hertfordshire (160). Kenneth Grant has also claimed to have attended a ceremony conducted by Dolores North at her flat in St Giles Circus (demolished to make way for Centre Point) at which Gardner was also present (Grant 1977:122124).

We knew Madeline from 1967 to her death in 1982, and were a student of her magickal school known as the Order of the Morning Star. and she had a poor opinion of Gardner. In fact she described him as a 'fraud'' and a 'pervert', relating lurid tales of how he liked to be tied up and have his genitals tickled with a feather! (Well, whatever turns you on, and let he who be without sin .... ) Towards the end of her life she seems to have been quite sensitive about any alleged witchcraft connections, and flew into one of her famous rages which lasted several days when a journalist described her in Man, Myth & Magic as the 'Witch of St Giles'. We also knew and worked with Christine Hartley in the 1970s and, while she was sympathetic to the Craft, she never gave any indication she had met or knew Gardner.

Gardner was certainly a member of the Druid Order, and a sword owned by Old Dorothy was used at their midsummer ceremony every year at Stonehenge, however it seems unlikely that their Chosen Chief was ever a member of the New Forest coven. Louis Wilkinson is said to have attended some of the group's rituals as a 'guest' (sic), but whether he was a formal initiated member is unknown. The other names are mere speculation.

The period around 1939-1940 is confused and muddled in the Bracelin biography. He mentions a letter that Gardner had published in The Daily Telegraph suggesting the formation of a citizen militia or guerrilla force to fight the Germans if they ever invaded England. This letter must have been written early in the summer of 1940 and Bracelin suggests that it was responsible for the creation of the Local Defense Volunteers, later to be renamed as the Home Guard. In fact such a force had been suggested by Winston Churchill as early as October 1939. The actual official announcement of its formation came on May 14 1940, following widespread public panic about fifth columnists and enemy paratroopers dropping into the English countryside at night. The Secretary of State for War, Anthony Eden, made a wireless broadcast asking for volunteers who knew how to use firearms to report to their local police stations and thousands turned up.

Gardner was an ideal recruit because he was an expert on all types of weapons. Before the Great War he had been the member of a private militia called the Legion of Frontiersmen, and in Ceylon he had belonged to the Planter's Rifle Corp. Bracelin's biography has a photograph of Gardner on his Custom launch wearing a revolver in his belt. However, Gardner was already an ARP warden and at first he was refused permission to join the new organisation. He responded by arming his wardens with pikes and coshes, while he carried a loaded machine pistol. Later he did manage to join the Home Guard. He held the rank of lance-corporal and acted as armourer to his local troop.

Wilkinson mentioned to King that in the summer of 1940 the New Forest coven were busy performing rituals to stop the expected Nazi invasion. The end result of this, Wilkinson claimed, was that the oldest and frailest member of the coven gave themselves up as a voluntary human sacrifice. They left off the 'flying ointment' used to keep their skyclad body warm on cold nights so that they might die of exposure. (King: 141-142) Bracelin also refers to this event and claims that Old Dorothy 'called up covens left and right' (suggesting there were other covens in existence to call up). Then in the New Forest a 'Great Circle' was created, a cone of power raised and sent across the Channel with the telepathic message "You cannot cross. You cannot come. You cannot come." A similar rite was allegedly performed by oldtime witches to stop the French and earlier the Spanish Armada. (Bracelin 1960:166-167).

Again, not everyone accepts this story as fact. One Gardnerian High Priestess dismissed it to me as 'one of Gerald's fairy tales', while Cecil Williamson (1993) claims that Gardner based it on a wartime ritual in the Ashdown Forest actually performed by Aleister Crowley and his chums in the British Secret Service............. to be continued.

[marpat]

Lets get down to brass tacks. You hate every expression of religion, magic or mysticism. I have looked at many of your threads and they all portray anything spiritual as some negative, illuminati mind control trap, never anthing good or uplifting or beneficial.

It is one thing for you to hate things but to constantly represent only one side of the arguement is nothing but an effort to force you opinions onto others.

In another posts you told me yourself that source documents CANNOT BE TRUSTED and that information has to be taken on faith, which I did agree with. Even though you stated this yourself about source documents you continue to post massive chunks of stuff you find on the internet which emphasise a negative view point only. In light of your own admission of not trusting source documents I would have to say that you are posting link and information that you cannot prove the authenticity of, nor the motive for its creation. In short you are posting stuff that you yourself said would have to be taken on FAITH.

You may hate the stuff but let others make up their own minds without totally biased and untrustworthy information

[eternal_spirit]

lf the will and the sale of the museum collection was not a bodyblow to the Gardnerians, only a few months after Gardner's death a version of his Book of Shadows was privately published. This was the work of a psychologist and rival witch called Charles Cardell who used the classical nom-de-plume 'Rex Nemorensis' . Cardell and his sister, Mary, ran a small mail-order company called Dumblecott Productions from their home near Gatwick Airport in Surrey which sold perfumes, oils, amulets, talismans and charms. Cardell also had consulting rooms in Queen's Gate, London which included a temple. The Cardells also had their own robed coven which met in woodland on their property. They claimed to follow an old tradition of witchcraft handed down to them by their mother. Because of this they regarded Gardner as a fraud who should be exposed.
The story goes that the Cardells persuaded a young woman to befriend the aged and ailing Gardner and ask for initiation. His coven were not interested in her, but Gardner was so infatuated that he gave her a private initiation at his London flat. This does not seem to have been uncommon in Gardner's later years. She then copied the BoS and passed it to Cardell. This was in 1957 and he waited until the Old Man was dead before publishing it. In common with Aidan Kelly in the 1990s, the Cardells did not gain much praise or public credence for exposing Wicca as a modern made-up religion. Shortly afterwards they sued the London Evening News for libel after it published an account of one of their woodland rituals. In court it was suggested that Charles and Mary Cardell were in fact not brother and sister at all. They lost the case and were forced to pay the legal costs which bankrupted them. Shortly afterwards Charles Cardell was badly injured in a road accident.
Since the Cardell book we have had Aidan Kelly's imaginative and quasi-academic account of how the Gardnerian BoS is supposed to have been created. (Kelly 1991). This included references to the mysterious manuscript known as Ye Bok of Ye Arte Magickal, a grimoire compiled by Gardner and discovered hidden in the Witches Mill by a Ripley representative before it was shipped to the States (Kelly 1984). This document appears at face value to be a proto-BoS, possibly compiled around 1948 or earlier. Amado Crowley (aka Andrew Standish), who claims to be one of Aleister Crowley illegitimate sons, has claimed that it was compiled by his father and Gardner in 1940. Although dogmatic claims have been made about its providence and significance nobody is really sure when this MS was written or what it really represents.
Over the last twenty years there have been many claims made about the origins of the New Forest coven, its alleged links with the Pickingill Craft and Crowley. Recently Amado Crowley has emerged from the shadows claiming Gardner invented 'Old Dorothy' Clutterbuck. He says that his father borrowed the name 'Old Mother Clutterbuck' from a pantomime dame and used it as a code name when he was recruited for Operation Mistletoe by M15 and the Naval Intelligence Department in 1941 to perform a ritual to lure Rudolf Hess to Britain. As we know now from Doreen Valiente's research, Dorothy Clutterbuck did exist and was a real person. Amado also claims to have been present when Gardner commissioned Crowley to write the rituals of Wicca at 'a guinea a page'. In 1995 speculative revelations emerged attempting to link the origins of modem witchcraft with the 'back to nature' movement of the 1920s and neopagan boy scouts such as the Order of Woodland Chivalry and the Woodcraft Folk. The web of speculation - and sometimes fantasy - spreads daily.

[marpat]

Lets get down to brass tacks. You hate every expression of religion, magic or mysticism. I have looked at many of your threads and they all portray anything spiritual as some negative, illuminati mind control trap, never anthing good or uplifting or beneficial.

It is one thing for you to hate things but to constantly represent only one side of the arguement is nothing but an effort to force you opinions onto others.

In another posts you told me yourself that source documents CANNOT BE TRUSTED and that information has to be taken on faith, which I did agree with. Even though you stated this yourself about source documents you continue to post massive chunks of stuff you find on the internet which emphasise a negative view point only. In light of your own admission of not trusting source documents I would have to say that you are posting link and information that you cannot prove the authenticity of, nor the motive for its creation. In short you are posting stuff that you yourself said would have to be taken on FAITH.

You may hate the stuff but let others make up their own minds without totally biased and untrustworthy information

[eternal_spirit]

Lets get down to brass tacks. You hate every expression of religion, magic or mysticism. I have looked at many of your threads and they all portray anything spiritual as some negative, illuminati mind control trap, never anthing good or uplifting or beneficial.

It is one thing for you to hate things but to constantly represent only one side of the arguement is nothing but an effort to force you opinions onto others.

In another posts you told me yourself that source documents CANNOT BE TRUSTED and that information has to be taken on faith, which I did agree with. Even though you stated this yourself about source documents you continue to post massive chunks of stuff you find on the internet which emphasise a negative view point only. In light of your own admission of not trusting source documents I would have to say that you are posting link and information that you cannot prove the authenticity of, nor the motive for its creation. In short you are posting stuff that you yourself said would have to be taken on FAITH.

You may hate the stuff but let others make up their own minds without totally biased and untrustworthy information

..........................

It's just information make of it what you will. I'm not religious nor do I follow any religions. So, you attack the messenger "myself", not the information. It's your thoughts of me, which has nothing to do with the topic and you're way off mark.

My spirituallity is none of your business, I'm not here to push it. you have your own brand you try and push onto others.

The Druids where the Elite Priesthood of the Pagan religions of the past, and they are still around Today. People can draw their own conclusions how it originated and how it connects to Today's religions/occult groups etc.

My conclusion is that Freemasonry is the main source of creating and promoting said groups/religions. there are 3 degrees in Freemasonry, 3 degress in some Witchcraft groups many of the intiation ceremonies are similar.

Also, they are both linked and have much in common with old Religions and the Religions of Today. If you read this thread and do some research you will see.


BTW I do quote many references, site sources and post links to back up the information posted. "You don't", so you expect us to take what you post in "faith."

:cool:

[thelucifer]

My conclusion is that Freemasonry is the main source of creating and promoting said groups/religions. there are 3 degrees in Freemasonry, 3 degress in some Witchcraft groups many of the intiation ceremonies are similar.

Also, they are both linked and have much in common with old Religions and the Religions of Today. If you read this thread and do some research you will see.:cool:


Exactly right,

There are so many Masonic quotes that can be used to show just that.
Really its a no brainer after looking into just some of the quotes.
But after looking into many its like beating a dead horse, but I keep looking anyway.

“Freemasonry is the survivor of the ancient mysteries - nay, we may go further and call it the guardian of the mysteries”

Bro. J.S.M.Ward. 'Freemasonry and the ancient gods' 347




Freemasonry is many religions in one, hence the real E Pluribus Unum.

[drael]

Sure ancient mystery religions like druidry and the practices in egypt did start the practice of secret ritual, and a handful of various secret societies follow what remains of said practice.

Some of those SS's form the elite structure, or part of it. Those groups, and some non-elite had some members leak information during recent history. That information composes much of what modern wicca and druidry is composed, because little history outside of SS's existed. (Although the druids had some keys, the secrecy of the original druids makes much of their religion recomposed).

So the original informations come from as u say garnider and crowley etc. Concepts of magick are now again free information, like earlier times. Why did these groups keep it a secret for literally thousands of years and then let it be leaked? Was it intentional? It is not the signature of a black magician to want his rituals leaked in any form. That said rare books in the age of the internet would have had similar effect, there are plenty of ancient books on the topics still available, albiet in mystic language. One could even infer magick from a christian ritual.

I seriously doubt wicca have much to do with the elite or druids. Their magick is mostly low magick, and highly white also (well wicca at least). Black magic is actually like a different school of training etc, so usually black magicians are into certain types of magick, like neo-satanic magick, ceremonial magick etc. Wicca just doesnt suit, its designed to be everyday type magick. Druidry is similar - real druids practiced lots of high magick, modern druids dont have any of their rituals, theyre magick is unsuited to black magick. The main core of the SS knowledge is egyptian. That said, there are broad similarities to alot of magick anyway, being based on observational things, like sympathy, or birth and death. But no, their is no direct line of knowledge from druids and witches in the past to today, its re-packaged egyptian magick with touches of other low magick. The core egyptian base is more high magick than any derivitive.

[ufo_swatter]

Paganism covers alot of things, I grew up worshipping the sun and moon and earth, does that make me one of the elite?
Rejection of the forcefed bullshit is one good reason to become 'pagan', pagan beliefs and the concept of the many Goddesses and Gods was almost universal before the one god control freaks turned up and poisoned the hearts and minds of men.
I admit there's a fair chance many late religions were corrupted by alien contact, certainly the Druids are likely to have been, but the real corrupt faiths are those which hold the power today. 2000 years of slaughter have made a world that they control.
When you are looking for Illuminati/aliens look at those who have the power now, the idea that they are hidden in secret cults is nonsense, they are right out in the open, right in front of you. Sure there are groups like the Masons who are part of the system of control, but today the invasion is almost complete, there's little point in hiding.
The elite realized long ago that humans can be controlled through religion, so they made one up and enslaved us with it, they didn't do it with cults, they did it with religion.
Witchcraft, paganism and Druidism, for all the made up bullshit that is part of their modern expression, still contain the secret to destroying the elite and that's why they still draw fire.

[cruise4]

I've been listening to a load of John Todd audio lately. He certainly comes across as knowing exactly what he's talking about. I don't know that he does. But it's interesting stuff.

[marpat]

..........................

It's just information make of it what you will. I'm not religious nor do I follow any religions. So, you attack the messenger "myself", not the information. It's your thoughts of me, which has nothing to do with the topic and you're way off mark.

My spirituallity is none of your business, I'm not here to push it. you have your own brand you try and push onto others.

The Druids where the Elite Priesthood of the Pagan religions of the past, and they are still around Today. People can draw their own conclusions how it originated and how it connects to Today's religions/occult groups etc.

My conclusion is that Freemasonry is the main source of creating and promoting said groups/religions. there are 3 degrees in Freemasonry, 3 degress in some Witchcraft groups many of the intiation ceremonies are similar.

Also, they are both linked and have much in common with old Religions and the Religions of Today. If you read this thread and do some research you will see.


BTW I do quote many references, site sources and post links to back up the information posted. "You don't", so you expect us to take what you post in "faith."

:cool:


But you are not the messenger, you just post stuff which suites you personal opinion. There is loads of stuff which would directly contradict what you say.

If your spirituality is none of our buisness then why is it your business to attack other peoples spirituality using documents that caould easily be created or fixed to give a negative outcome?

I like that, do some research. You don't do any, you just find stuff that suite the conclusion you want to see then post it.

You might be suprised to find the modern Druids actually have no link to the ancient Druids. Even if Druids, Wiccan and Freemasons used Kabbalah as a basis for exploring symbolism it does not mean that they are all linked, just that they use a common set of symbols. The way they use them, the ritual they carry out, and how thy live will be different. If you do some unbiased research yu might actually see this.

[marpat]

What is Wicca?


Wicca is an eclectic religious belief system centering around gods, goddesses, and nature worship. Gary Cantrell, a well known Wiccan author says Wicca is based on "harmony with nature and all aspects of the god and goddess divinity."1 Wiccan practice involves the manipulation of nature through various rituals in attempts to gain power, prestige, love, or whatever else a Wiccan wants. It uses symbols in its ceremonies and follows the calendar in reference to Wiccan festivals. Its roots are in ancient agrarian Celtic Society. It is considered Neo Pagan (based on old European and pre-Christian belief systems). Wicca does not have a structure of clergy and/or congregations. But it does have priests and priestesses which are in leadership positions within covens that have witches. The varying traditions of Wicca have different requirements for attaining the level of priest and priestess. Some of the more common varieties of Wicca are 1734, Alexandrian, Celtic, Dianic, Dicordian, Eclectic, Gardnerian, and Georgian. Wicca is even recognized as a religion in the military.
One of the most common aspects of working theology is the teaching of reincarnation and karma. The purpose of reincarnation is to learn lessons through the various lives. “This process of reincarnation is repeated for numerous lifetimes until a development of the Spirit is reached where the spirit can truly merge with the male and female balanced creator/creatrix entity. We returned to the God and to the Goddess.”2 Karma is the law of cause and effect that "does not punish nor reward. It is simply a universal law that reacts to causation until disharmony is illuminated."3
Wicca does not claim to be the only way but says that all spiritual traditions and paths are valid to those who practice them.4 It accepts "the fact that all life is sacred, including plant, animal, and human."5
Generally, Wiccans do not believe in the existence of a devil (they are not Satan worshippers). They have no orgies or public displays of sexuality in their rituals (though some Wiccan traditions practice nudity and sexuality not open to the public), no bestiality, and no blood sacrifices. They do not practice spells with the intention to harm people. They deny that there are moral absolutes, believe that nature is divine, and seek to be in harmony with the earth/nature.
Is it recognized as a religion by the government? Absolutely.

"Wicca is a bona fide religion, Mr. Barr. It has been recognized by the courts, and legal Wiccan clergy can be found in every state in the United States. We have chaplains in many American and Canadian prisons. Our guiding principle, the Wiccan Rede, admonishes us to harm none."6

The Wiccan Rede and the Threefold Law

There are two basic codes that the Wiccans live by. First is the Wiccan Rede which states, "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will". This means that a Wiccan is free to use his or her magic as long as it doesn't harm anyone. The second is the Threefold Law which says that all the good you do will return to threefold in this life. Likewise, all the harm you do will return to threefold as well.

The God and Goddess

There is an ultimate life force called "The One," or "The All" from which the male and female aspects of life emerged, i.e., the god and goddess. The Divine, god or goddess, depending on who you are talking to, can have different names. There can even be references to different gods from other theological systems: Hinduism, Egyptian, Buddhism, ancient Greece, Sumerian, Christian, etc. In Wicca it doesn’t really matter what name is given to a person’s concept of God as long as you have one, or two, or more.
One Wiccan might consider God to be self-aware, another may not. It all depends on the angle that an individual Wiccan takes in his or her theological construction of what best works. It is a religion of self design. In Wiccan theology, because god can show different characteristics in different ways to different people, Wiccans can have different and even contradictory conceptions of God. This is not a problem to them because they maintain that it is only the limited aspects of individual perceptions of god that appear contradictory.

“as Wiccans, we acknowledge and worshiped the old gods and goddesses in the form both pleasing to Them and meaningful to us…”7

Why is Wicca attractive?

Wicca is attractive for many people who do not desire or appreciate absolute truths. In Wicca, a person is free to discover his or her own "path." In other words, he or she is free to invent a religious system that suits his or her desires.

“If you are just beginning a study of paganism, you may need to evaluate many different traditions or paths before finding the one for which you are looking. Your chosen path in the old religion must be one that is uniquely suited to you as an individual and one that lets you speak to the Lord and Lady in your own fashion.”8

It should be obvious that Wicca is a religion of personal preference. In other words, you are free to invent, devise, and develop a religion that suits your personal wants and interests. Furthermore, in Wicca you may attempt to manipulate your surroundings and other individuals through spells and incantations. This combination of developing a religion that suits your personal preferences and trying to influence others is very appealing to a lot of people.

_____________
1. Cantrell, Gary., Wiccan Beliefs and Practices. St. Paul, Minn: Llewellyn Publications,
2004. p. 20.
2. ibid. p. 27.
3. Grimassi, Raven., Encyclopedia of Wiccan Witchcraft., St. Paul, Minn: Llewellyn Publications,
2003, 240.
4. Cantrell, Gary., Wiccan Beliefs and Practices. p. 9.
5. Drew, A. J., A Wiccan Bible: Exploring the mysteries of the craft from birth to summerland.,
Franklin Lakes, NJ; New Page Books, 2003, p. 32.
6. An illogical leap, Washington Times, The (DC), 07328494, May 19, 2004, Letters., pg A16.
7. Cantrell, Gary., Wiccan Beliefs and Practices. p. 18.
8. ibid., p. 13.

[marpat]

What is a Freemasonry?


Freemasonry is one of the world's oldest secular fraternal societies.
Freemasonry under the Constitution of the United Grand Lodge of England, is a society of men concerned with moral and spiritual values. Its members are taught its precepts by a series of ritual dramas, which follow ancient forms, and use stonemasons' customs and tools as allegorical guides.

It offers its members an approach to life which seeks to reinforce thoughtfulness for others, kindness in the community, honesty in business, courtesy in society and fairness in all things. Members are urged to regard the interests of the family as paramount but importantly Freemasonry also teaches and practices concern for people, care for the less fortunate and help for those in need.

Membership is open to men of any race or religion who can have a belief in a Supreme Being and who are of good repute.

Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. Its essential qualification opens it to men of many religions and it expects them to continue to follow their own faith. It does not allow religion to be discussed at its meeting.

Freemasonry is non-political, and the discussion of politics at Masonic meetings is forbidden.

A Freemason is encouraged to do his duty first to his God (by whatever name he is known) through his faith and religious practice; and then, without detriment to his family and those dependent on him, to his neighbour through charity and service.

None of these ideas is exclusively Masonic, but all should be universally acceptable. Freemasons are expected to follow them.

For more information on Freemasonry under the English Constitution, please refer to www.ugle.co.uk

Charity
From its earliest days, Freemasonry has been concerned with the care of orphans, the sick and the aged.

This work continues today. In addition, large sums are given to national and local charities. To find out more go to the Charitable work area of our site

[marpat]

Satanism is not one single religion. Satanism is a broad category of religions, worldviews, and literature all featuring a favorable interpretation of the figure of Satan.

Christians (and Muslims) regard their "God" as all-good and Satan as evil. But what is "good"? What is "evil"? Many of the moral values espoused in the Bible seem very strange from a modern Western point of view.

In the Garden of Eden story, Adam and Eve are punished for eating from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." In other words, blind obedience to the Biblical "God" is considered "good," whereas independent moral judgment, based on one's own knowledge, is considered "evil." But, like many other educated people in the West today, we Satanists do not agree with this idea at all.

In the Book of Genesis, "God" seems to be outright threatened by human knowledge and achievement, both in the Garden of Eden story ("And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'" - Genesis 3:22) and then later in the Tower of Babel story ("But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.'" - Genesis 11:5-7).

In several books of the Bible, the supposedly all-good "God" commands the Israelites to slaughter various enemy nations in their entirety, in some cases sparing only the virgin girls who are taken as slaves. Nowhere in the Bible is Satan alleged to do anything even remotely as "evil" by modern Western standards.

According to traditional Christian doctrine, the main “evil” thing Satan is believed to do is simply to lead people away from Christ. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing depends on how you feel about Christianity.

From a more down-to-Earth point of view, the worst thing Satan is said to do in the New Testament is to drive people insane. (Insanity is blamed on alleged “demon possession.”) Indeed, if one is careless, one can drive oneself insane through exploring the unknown and seeking to “become as gods,” as Satan invites us to do. On the other hand, if one takes reasonable precautions in pursuing one's explorations and ambitions, one can reap great benefits.

Thus, most Satanists do NOT see themselves as "worshiping evil." Rather, most Satanists associate Satan with such values as pride, independence, individuality, knowledge, achievement, thinking for oneself, and exploring unknown and forbidden realms.

Furthermore, contrary to the portrayal of Satanism in horror movies and sensationalistic tabloids, the vast majority of Satanists do NOT see any need to sacrifice animals or commit violent crimes in the name of Satan.

There are many kinds of Satanists.

For most of the past forty years, the most public Satanist spokespeople have been atheistic symbolic Satanists, who do not believe in or worship Satan as a literal entity, but who regard Satan as a symbol of independence, pride, individual ambition, etc. The best-known symbolic Satanist organization is the Church of Satan, founded by Anton LaVey.

There is now a growing movement of theistic Satanists, who do believe in and revere Satan as a deity.

There are many kinds of theistic Satanists. The vast majority do NOT simply accept Christian beliefs except for siding with the Other Guy. The beliefs of most theistic Satanists are based on sources other than just Christianity.

Some theistic Satanists regard Satan as the Christian-era image of a more ancient deity such as the Egyptian god Set, the Greek Titan Prometheus, or the Sumerian god Enki. The Temple of Set is the best-known organization holding such a belief.

Others base their ideas on ancient Ophidian Gnosticism, which venerated the serpent of the Garden of Eden myth. Ophidian Gnostics saw the Biblical God as the Demiurge (an evil god who created the physical world for the purpose of trapping human souls) and the serpent as Sophia, the bringer of wisdom. This theology isn’t popular among today’s Satanists, most of whom have a more favorable opinion of the material world and their own bodies than the ancient Gnostics did.

Some see Satan as “God of this world” in a deistic or pantheistic sense, thereby giving a decidedly non-Christian interpretation to a phrase used in the Bible to refer to Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4).

Many theistic Satanists are polytheistic and regard both Satan and the Christian "God" as just two of the many gods. Some believe that all the gods, including both Satan and the Christian “God,” are really just very advanced extraterrestrial humanoids. Others are polytheistic in a more traditional spiritual sense.

The authors of this pamphlet are founding members of the Church of Azazel, which has a polytheistic theology. We believe that the Christian "God" is not the true cosmic God. To us, the workings of Nature do not suggest that the cosmic creator God desires a personal parental-like relationship with us humans. We believe that the true cosmic God is most likely impersonal, and, therefore, that any god who does relate to humans in a personal way is not the cosmic God. Thus we regard neither the Christian "God" nor Satan as the ultimate God of the universe. We regard Satan as a spirit who rules over the Earth and as a Muse of human innovation.

[eternal_spirit]

Gerald Gardiner:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9568/geraldgardnerbw9.jpg

Gerald Gardner coined the phrase "Wicca" to describe his neo-Witchcraft Religion & incorporated
hexing (Black Magick) into his occult purview. Gardner's original Wicca movement was in reality a nudist
sex-cult which practiced S & M and bi-sexual ceremonies he got from Crowley

[eternal_spirit]

Depending on the tradition, the Great rite was performed within a Magik Circle between the High Priest and Priestess. It is sometimes also performed for seasonal festivals, and especially handfastings between the newly married couple. At times it has been used as an Initiation into a coven (such as 3rd degree initiations in the Gardnerian and Alexandrian traditions). Representing the inner marriage of the soul and spirit, ego and self. It is the gateway to becoming a whole being. In these type of initiations, the Rite is performed between the initiant and the High Priest, or High Priestess. This is done either "In token", which is symbolically using ritual tools, such as an athame inserted into a chalice. Or "in true", as a sexual act. When the rite was performed "in true" it is typically conducted by a couple who are already intimate partners. An open portion of the rite is performed within the circle in front of the coven, and the intimate union is performed in private. Gerald Gardner had the Great Rite performed with the coven watching. He also favored ritual scourging (whipping)as part of the rite, a practice which has fallen greatly out of favor. Other covens performed a portion of the ritual with everyone watching and then those forming the circle would turn their back on the couple in the center. Others had the circle members walk backwards out of the sacred space, then turn and file out clockwise leaving the couple in private but within the circle. Others still opened on section of the circle and allowed the couple to exit to their own private space, which is typically a circle that was earlier prepared by the couple.

[soulja]

i wonder what happend to John Todd ?

i heard conflicting views, some say he's in a mental prison others say he was killed. svali seems to have dissapeared aswell. springmeier got framed and imprisoned.

looks like they don't like defectors or people with an good understanding of their inner workings too much.

[eternal_spirit]

Another story about Todd. As soon as he'd been set free, a black unmarked helicopter whisked him away and he's never been seen since. It would seem he's been abducted.

I believe there's good and bad people in all religions, the main purpouse of this thread is not to have a go at wiccans/pagans but to show the source/roots of the modern revivals. People can take religion based on faith to the point of fanatacism and the detriment of their own and others well being. Anyway something to think about.

[thirdwave]

Wicca movement was in reality a nudist
sex-cult which practiced S & M and bi-sexual ceremonies he got from Crowley



really?.. that's actually completely and utterly not true.

sounds great though if it was true!! , I'll bring the JD! :)

[coshh]

Some books on wicca (pro-wiccan ones!) really do give the impression its basically an excuse to get naked and scourge each other.

[marpat]

Some books on wicca (pro-wiccan ones!) really do give the impression its basically an excuse to get naked and scourge each other.

Really? I only ever owned one book on Wicca, long since missing, and I never recall anything about scourges.

I once watched a documentry about the pagans and they did show how scandinavians (from what I recall) did have a practice which involved mild whipping. I think it was meant to stimluate the skin not damage it. The full documentry was on Sky. Pretty interesting stuff really.

Personally I think if people want to get naked and do ritual then let them. Not my bag though and by the appearance of some Wiccans I have met in that past the sight might make you cringe if you saw them naked.

[coshh]

Really? I only ever owned one book on Wicca, long since missing, and I never recall anything about scourges.

Well I never took much of an interest in Wicca but from what I gather from wiccans I know scourging is a big part of it.

Maybe I just happen to know the kinky wiccans though :p

[eternal_spirit]

really?.. that's actually completely and utterly not true.

sounds great though if it was true!! , I'll bring the JD! :)

......................


It's true I jest not, but yeah a bottle would help looking at how ugly some of the Wiccans are. Like those programs/pics you see of nudist clubs eugh:eek:

[thirdwave]

......................


It's true I jest not, but yeah a bottle would help looking at how ugly some of the Wiccans are. Like those programs/pics you see of nudist clubs eugh:eek:

im not particularly into either but do not see what is satanic about it for a start... but that is not at all what wicca was.

[lizzy]

THE TOP BLOCK IS WHAT I WAS INITIATED INTO, THE COUNCIL OF 13 CALLED THE GRAND DRUID COUNCIL. They only take orders from the Rothschilds and nobody else. They're their private priesthood. The Council of 33 is directly under them, that is the 33 highest Masons in the World. The Council of 500, some of the richest people in the World--there are 500, actually, some of the richest people and conglomerates in the World--it's their real power as I'll show you in a minute.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEE MUCH OF THE WRITING ON THIS, BUT THIS IS THE ORGANISATION OF WITCHCRAFT. The Golden Dawn is the 4th block up there, and it's the Rothschild's private coven. The Aquarian Arts Festival is the organization that ties all of the Occult Brotherhoods together in St. Paul, The Witches Church of America I was a member of. The Church of All Worlds is located in St. Louis. These are denominations like Northern Baptist, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, etc.

THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, THE SATANIC BROTHERHOOD OF AMERICA, SCIENTOLOGY, UNITY, is the main platform for Witches to be speakers at towards what they consider to be Christian people. The Church of Wicca is another denomination; it's in Greenfield, North Carolina.


THE AQUARIAN ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS FORMED BY ONE OF THE GRAND DRUIDS, ISAAC BONOVITZ, and the American Civil Liberties Union. Its purpose is to pass laws and to sue Christian churches in Federal court for defaming Witches and the Occult, and they have been winning millions of dollars in the Federal courts.


THE GARNARIAN BROTHERHOOD IS THE TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT IN ENGLAND. The Order of the Rose Cross--another word for it is Rosicrucians--they are a sacrifice order. And the Holy Order of the Garter is another traditional English Witchcraft group.

Quotes by John Todd


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16932

Texe Marrs new book on masonic symbology you could have written blind fold ;)

[lizzy]

................

Yes it is. I come across bits of info by accident mostly when reading other topics. I'm wondering what others here have to say or even realize, the roots and hidden hands behind such groups.

I accept the culture creators as a possible theory, because they have set up so many fads, religions, and all that goes with it so many times before, for many years. And we have to ask why are they pushing, promoting certain things, it's becasue they want us to accept it, and it's usually not for our own good, example ; another religion, mind prison, sheep pen, it's purpouse control.


Yes ES, the dragon snake is eating it's own head now.;)

[octopusrex]

Green Magic is Green Magic.

Can be used for good and ill. Shamans have been decimating each other for millenia. They still do.