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believenothing
06-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Those of us living in the West have been conditioned to believe (especially in the last 45 years) that Muslims and Jews are enemies. That they have been enemies since biblical times, occasionally identified in propaganda as Amalekites or the children of Esau, and also that both have been commanded to kill each other.

This is completely false historical revisionism, and just a quick glance at history will show that Jews and Muslims got along quite well until the late 19th century and the advent of political Zionism.

The establishment propaganda wants people to believe the Israel-Palestine conflict is rooted in a thousands-year-old biblical conflict. That way it perpetuates the status quo because people assume it will never end. In reality, the Israel-Palestine conflict is only about 100 years old, the cause is the Zionist (and European) colonization of Palestine.

One of the reasons the propaganda has been so successful is because the West is unfamiliar with Islam. A little over a century ago, few even knew who Muslims were. Instead, the terms Turk, Saracen, Moor, etc. have (at different times) been synonymous with Muslims. Prior to the separation of church and state, the Christian West was at 'war' ideologically with Islam. That is also why the propaganda has been successful.

Religiously, Orthodox Judaism has a lot of common ground with Islam. For example, it is no coincidence that Halal and Kosher are nearly identical or that Yom Kippur and Ramadan have similarities.

Islamic monotheism replaced the pagan polytheism of the Arabian Peninsula. What is poorly understood by most is that those 'idol worshiping Arabian pagans' were already Abrahamized. Just like the biblical Israelites were at times. In a way, the Arabs were religiously 'Jewish' (and/or Christian) although obviously unorthodox. Islam was sort of a 'reformation' of Arabic Abrahamism.

The Koran has been misinterpreted and mistranslated to fit the propaganda. What most people don't know is that Islam reveres Hebrews and their prophets (like Moses). The Koran calls Israelites "Bani Isreal" meaning "children of Israel" and the context which refers to the Israelites is always positive.

You probably heard some negative quote about Jews from the Koran, so how could that be? Because the Koran doesn't considered the Israelites and Jews to be the same people (and neither should anybody, that's also historical revisionism). The Jews are referred to as Yahud, and yes they are referred to negatively but that's not any different that many other religious have regarded their predecessors, including Christianity which refers to them negatively in the New Testament.

What about the Jews in Medina who were 'slaughtered' by Muhammad's men? Some have said that no slaughter took place or that they were converted to Islam. Either way, the Banu Qurayza tribe of Medina Jews were unpopular because they were tax collectors. Interestingly, so were the similarly spelled Quraysh tribe who took care of the Kaaba in Mecca, the same tribe Muhammad was from. Qurayza and Quraysh are both anglicized as Koresh (Cyrus). History is very likely telling us some lies here, and the two tribes were probably related. There are also some obvious similarities between the Kaaba and a Jewish temple which are probably not coincidence.

Second-class citizens (like Arabian Jews) were treated unfairly at times, but that's the same story for minorities every where. Islam eventually spread to many non-Arab kingdoms. Today 80% of Muslims are not even Arab.

Jewish persecution by Muslims has been grossly exaggerated. Take the Ottomans for example:

(from Wikipedia)
Although the status of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire may have often been exaggerated, it is undeniable that the tolerance was enjoyed. Under the millet system they were organized as a community on the basis of religion, alongside the other millets (e.g. Orthodox millet, Armenian millet, etc.). In the framework of the millet they had a considerable amount of administrative autonomy and were represented by the Hakham Bashi, the Chief Rabbi. There were no restrictions in the professions Jews could practice analogous to those common in Western Christian countries.

"Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking" and asking: "Is it not better for you to live under Muslims than under Christians?" - Rabbi Yitzhak Sarfati

Jews even had elite status in Constantinople. They were wealthy and hung around others who were wealthy. Some Jews were close to the Sultan. They became established merchants (in addition to having a financial role). The Turks welcomed persecuted European Jews with open arms as a result of the Inquisition, and they were given good land to live on.

Although Jews seem to dominate Inquisition literature, it was the Muslims who were primarily expelled. The Muslims had conquered their way across North Africa and onward to Spain and Sicily, which they held for years. There were many prominent Jews among their ranks. If Muslims and Jews were really enemies, they would not have been able to accompany them. Jews and Muslims fought along side each other during the Crusades. Palestinian Jews opposed the Zionist colonists alongside their Muslim and Christian brothers.

What changed?

Israel. In the Arab world, Jew is synonymous with Israeli because Israel has set up shop as the nation of the Jews. Arabs are not antisemitic, they hate Jews because the Israeli Jews stole their land and have been in perpetual warfare with the entire Levant. Read early Zionist journals about how the Palestinians killed a Zionist colonist in revenge for an 'accident' that involved shooting an Arab point blank in the face. The colonists were religious extremist nutjobs who boasted of taking over much of the Levant for religious reasons. To be fair, the initial land was acquired legally. Then they started stealing it. They used the partition plan (never implemented) to declare independence, and warfare to steal a lot of land. They've massacred civilians and they've committed violent acts of terror. This is why the Jews are hated in the Middle East, not 'antisemitism' and not because of the religious theology.

The West has labeled Palestinian resistance as terrorism. Mossad agents have staged or provoked false flag terrorist attacks to blame it on Arabs. And Israelis are hypocrites anyway because they sponsor terrorism and the massacre of civilians all the time.

The whole British/Western interest in the ME resources, the Lawrence of Arabia stuff, is also responsible for a lot of this mess. They turned over the Arabian Peninsula to the Sauds. The Sauds are Wahhabists, a dogmatic cult that interprets the Koran literally and archaically. This was forced upon the people and has been a major influence on Islam since the mid 20th century. Most of the negative stereotypes attributed to Islam are because of Wahhabism. The Saud family tree even has Jewish ancestry. Ironic.

In the 20th century, the Zionists transported Jews from all over the ME to Israel. They used false flags to promote sectarian violence and staged pogroms to convinced 'their people' to emigrate. Some of these were real and Israel's fault. Guilt by association.

The non tl;dr version: Muslims and Jews have a shared history and got along mostly just fine until the advent of Zionism and Israel in the last century alone. They are not mortal or biblical enemies, that's Zionist propaganda pretending that conservative religious extremism responsible for the I/P conflict.

believenothing
06-06-2012, 09:44 PM
It's pretty common knowledge that the hexagram has never been exclusive to Judaism. It's prominent in Asia, especially with Buddhism. It's also an occult symbol.

What isn't common knowledge is that this never used to be a Jewish symbol. It's not clear when it was adopted either. The Israelis never take this into account when they claim a site to be historically Jewish.

What is even less well-known is that, for a while at least, the hexagram was a Turkish symbol. Some of those 'historically Jewish' sites in Israel date back to the Ottoman period.

Muslims called it the "Seal of Solomon" and it's interesting that the hexagram has long been associated with the occult, because Solomon has also long been associated with the occult. Solomon has been associated with demonology since time immemorial. The canonical bible white washes this as 'worshiping false gods' and 'taking multiple wives' while the Koran does not and refers to the demons as Jinn. There are plenty of ancient books about it too. Solomon is very likely a fictional character. No physical evidence has ever been found to prove he existed, especially not in Palestine. The myths about Solomon exist all over the 'Old World' even in areas where Abrahamism has no history. He is definitely a strange character, whoever he was.

Now apparently, long before Suleiman the Magnificent lived there was a Anatolian 'Suleiman bloodline' which may have been Jewish. Anatolia's relationship with the history of Abrahamism is more important than Palestine to the point where it may as well be the real 'holy land' IMO

Hayreddin Barbarossa may have been of this bloodline which is why the hexagram is on his flag:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/BarbarosSancagi.svg/500px-BarbarosSancagi.svg.png

The hexagram was also used on currency (and maybe even flags if I recall) in Morocco and Moorish Spain (both which had significant and powerful Jewish populations).

Now around here, we know the story about the Red Star of David Shield and the name Rothschild. Sometimes a symbol is just a symbol and nothing more. But I doubt it in this case:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4091/jewworldorder.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Karamanid_Dynasty_flag.svg/300px-Karamanid_Dynasty_flag.svg.png

This is taken from the Catalan Atlas, prepared in the 14th century by a Jewish cartographer named Abraham Cresques. The lack of Christian symbolism normally present on most period mappae mundi is probably because he wasn't Christian. What's interesting is that the map is of Jewish trade routes.

One hexagram is red, the other looks very similar to the flag of Israel. All the Zionist flags were mostly blue or blue with a red hexagram or with some red in it. This is not a coincidence. So what does it mean? Probably that the modern day Zionist Jewish leaders know something we don't and have historic ties to Turkey that have been kept a secret. The "Muslims and Jews are historical enemies" lie conceals this secret.

Some have said that Zionists caused the Armenian genocide. Israel has certainly held an unusually fixation on that event which is not normal because no other nation shares it. There is some sort of ties there. That and the Ottoman government complied in part with the early Zionist colonists and the Rothschild land purchases (because Palestine and Syria were a Turkish providence).

Much like everything else, the world has collective amnesia. Muslims and Jews have a history of getting along, not of being enemies. There were also elite and powerful Jews in Islamic kingdoms. If Cannanites and Edomites adopted Judaism ages ago, and if the Hittite and Anatolian kingdoms were made up of their decedents, they have probably played a much larger role in the history of Turks than we have been led to believe.

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 01:33 AM
This article does a good job explaining the current situation:

http://www.meforum.org/2462/the-quran-israel-not-for-jews

You are right, Zionism has caused much more strife between Jews and Muslims where there was much less in the past.

In the long history of Muslim empires, the dhimmis were treated sometimes better, sometimes worse in different areas in different time periods, and generally there was not a huge problem between the Muslim overlords and the second-class dhimmis unless the dhimmis started pursuing political power.

So that's where the modern strife derives from.

Islam was founded as a political theocratic empire, and Mohammed gave the command:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

The dhimmi populations were just fine under Muslim government, as long as they paid their jizya and did not oppose the spread of Islam, as long as they "knew their place". They lived as second class citizens under the various codes of Sharia, restricted in many ways. Speaking against Mohammed or Islam, proselyztization of other faiths would get a dhimmi in trouble real fast, just as it is today in the Muslim countries which have the worst record of religious persecution and least religious freedom in the world.

Judaism was not a proselytizing faith, so the dhimmi Jews would generally have less conflict with the Muslims than the dhimmi Christians, and the pagans generally were not dhimmis, they were enslaved by the Muslims, along with the Christians and anyone else who opposed the spread of Islamic empire at the frontlines.

The establishment propaganda wants people to believe the Israel-Palestine conflict is rooted in a thousands-year-old biblical conflict. That way it perpetuates the status quo because people assume it will never end. In reality, the Israel-Palestine conflict is only about 100 years old, the cause is the Zionist (and European) colonization of Palestine.

One of the reasons the propaganda has been so successful is because the West is unfamiliar with Islam. A little over a century ago, few even knew who Muslims were. Instead, the terms Turk, Saracen, Moor, etc. have (at different times) been synonymous with Muslims. Prior to the separation of church and state, the Christian West was at 'war' ideologically with Islam. That is also why the propaganda has been successful.

The thousands-year-old conflict does exist, it started in the 600s when Emperor Mohammed commanded his jihadist warriors to take over the world for Islamic Imperialism.

Turk, Saracen, and Moor ARE synonymous with Muslim, and everyone back then knew it well, they usually called them Mohammedans or Musselmen back then.

Prior to the separation of church and state, the nominally Christian West, controlled by elites who rarely acted according to the commands of Jesus, and often controlled by Jewish cabals who were purged from time to time, was definitely at war with the ever-aggressive Muslim empires who were following Mohammed's version of Manifest Destiny as laid out in Surah 9.

After the separation of church and state, the post-Christian West, now fully controlled by the Zionist cabal, is still at war with Islam, it's just that many people in the West don't know it, because they are unfamiliar with Islam and refuse to confront the truth about what the Qur'an clearly commands. Take Zionism out of the equation, and the post-Christian West is still at war with Islam, because Islam is the opposite of the separation of church and state, the opposite of liberal democracy, Islam is totalitarian theocracy.

This is an excellent article I hope you might read.

How Islam breathed new life into slavery and the slave trade in Europe

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/how-islam-breathed-new-life-into-slavery-and-the-slave-trade-in-europe.html

This is a comment posted on that article that is directly relevant to this discussion.

"This is the most important occlusion in Western historiography. One wonders whether the subject was dropped out of shame, fear, or just plain forgetfulness induced by the Medieval era."

It wasn't the Medieval era that forgot: it was the Modern era (which began approximately with the late Renaissance merging into the Reformation); and it took a while -- several centuries, perhaps -- to fully "forget".

Like any major civilizational process, the Western amnesia about Islam is complex and has more than one cause.

1) One cause was posited a couple of years ago by Bill Warner (I don't know if anyone before him thought of this): It could be called a semi-consciously willful forgetting due to a kind of post-traumatic stress disorder on a mass civilizational scale: our collective history of painful and terrifying experiences with hostile Muslims over the centuries -- a full ten centuries really, approximately an entire millennium, a thousand years from the 7th century assaults by Muslim armies that pillaged and occupied vast regions that had been civilized by classical Rome, then by Christian Rome (throughout the Middle East, North Africa, then the Iberian peninsula and then threatening right into the heart of Europe only to be repelled by a coalition of Europeans at the Battle of Tours in the early 8th century), clear through to the 17th century when finally the balance of power began to shift from the Muslim armies to the West, the latter of which embarked upon a spectacular ascendancy of global superiority, exponentially advancing with each passing century after that, while the Muslim world by stupendously stark contrast deteriorated more and more.

Which leads us to the second cause:

2) the Muslim world receded from its principal way of being noticed: its ability to attack and threaten us. By the 18th century, all it could do is nip at our heels, mostly through piracy in the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean, and occasionally into the Atlantic. While this piracy was a major nuisance, it also exemplified how low Islam had sunk by then, that all it could do is attack ships and no longer could launch an actual military attack, the last significant one being at the end of the 17th century.

3) The third cause has only developed relatively recently, approximately over the past 50 years (and increasing exponentially with each passing decade): the shift of the Western worldview into PC MC. It is entirely coincidental that PC MC has become dominant and mainstream throughout the West just when a complex of many different factors have coalesced to galvanize Muslims around the world to revive their original Islamic imperative to conquer the world. The effect of this third cause of Western amnesia, PC MC, is strangely ironic and perverse: for just when our former foe is reviving precisely the behaviors that should rationally cause us to remember why we forgot them and thus who they are (our implacable inveterate Enemy), PC MC comes along and adds a new way to forget them -- through sanitizing and airbrushing out of existence the threat they embody. This PC MC type of amnesia is, of course selective: We are to forget (or, rather, we are to continue to internally censor our thoughts and feelings about the real nature of Muslims and their Islam) Muslims and Islam in terms of any negative stereotypes about them -- a legacy of our shameful racist bigoted past of Orientalism -- and simultaneously we must be mindful to only think of Muslims and Islam in a positive light. This is still amnesia, but adds the wrinkle of "remembering" a false construct, a fantasy hologram: the good moderate Muslim and the peaceful Islam, in place of our continually suppressed memory of the real Islam and real Muslims. PC MC does this by means of a complex paradigm primarily dependent upon the #1 Commandment of PC MC: the White West is evil and should be ashamed of itself, while all Brown People are lovely and wonderful (and if some might do bad things it is always because they were driven to do so in one way or another by our evil oppression of them). Muslims, through their fanatical alacrity and for violence and international ability to deliver it, have elbowed their way to the top of the list of Brown People whom we must respect and never criticize (let alone condemn and concretely oppose). And PC MC would not be able to do this, nor would it be able to have become dominant and mainstream, were it imposed from without: it is sincerely believed by millions of ordinary Westerners and not-so-ordinary Elites among them. The ascendancy of PC MC throughout the West was not a coup d'etat by a sinister cabal: it was a coup de State of Mind.


The Koran has been misinterpreted and mistranslated to fit the propaganda. What most people don't know is that Islam reveres Hebrews and their prophets (like Moses). The Koran calls Israelites "Bani Isreal" meaning "children of Israel" and the context which refers to the Israelites is always positive.

The Qur'an is easy to read, and the violent jihadists are the ones who put it into practice. The misinterpreters are those who do not like what the Qur'an literally says, as you admitted here:

The whole British/Western interest in the ME resources, the Lawrence of Arabia stuff, is also responsible for a lot of this mess. They turned over the Arabian Peninsula to the Sauds. The Sauds are Wahhabists, a dogmatic cult that interprets the Koran literally and archaically. This was forced upon the people and has been a major influence on Islam since the mid 20th century. Most of the negative stereotypes attributed to Islam are because of Wahhabism. The Saud family tree even has Jewish ancestry. Ironic.

The Wahhabists prefer to be called Salafis, and the Egyptian people just voted in something like 20% Salafi for their legislature, so don't tell me that this is all forced top-down onto the Muslim world.

The definition of a Muslim is someone who believes Mohammed was the prophet of God and the Qur'an is the Word of God, the fundamentalist, literalist, dogmatic Qur'anist is the true Muslim, not the modern apostate liberal hypocrite with one foot in post-Christian, neo-pagan liberal democratic West and the other foot in literalist Islam, that "moderate Muslim" is a walking contradiction.

Also, that bit about the House of Saud having Jewish ancestry is quite interesting yes. They are Luciferian Kabbalists, and there is a long history of Saudi collaboration with the Zionists, one example is that they allowed the Israelis to use Saudi airspace for the raid on Iraq's nuclear reactor through a curiously timed shutting down of Saudi air defenses.

Muslims hate the Zionists because the Zionists have set up a non-Muslim government in Israel, this is a slap in the face to Islam's Manifest Destiny. Jews are to be under Islamic government by the Qur'an, not the other way around.

Jews even had elite status in Constantinople. They were wealthy and hung around others who were wealthy. Some Jews were close to the Sultan. They became established merchants (in addition to having a financial role). The Turks welcomed persecuted European Jews with open arms as a result of the Inquisition, and they were given good land to live on.

Although Jews seem to dominate Inquisition literature, it was the Muslims who were primarily expelled. The Muslims had conquered their way across North Africa and onward to Spain and Sicily, which they held for years. There were many prominent Jews among their ranks. If Muslims and Jews were really enemies, they would not have been able to accompany them. Jews and Muslims fought along side each other during the Crusades. Palestinian Jews opposed the Zionist colonists alongside their Muslim and Christian brothers.

And it should be duly noted that every Muslim including Sultans who took Jews or Christians as friends were disobeying their Qur'an.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm

Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly."

An email I recently wrote:

I hope you actually read the article before you googled the author's name and wrote off everything he had to say because he is Zionist. Do you forget so easily, that I have spoken time and again against the Zionists? I have a Christian perspective on this matter, I am not pro-Zionist or pro-Muslim. I know very well the history of Jewish settlement in Palestine and the history of Jewish terrorism.

I am not pro-Israel, but you have to look at both sides of any story to find the truth. This article starts out by saying that the Jews believe that they have a right to the land because the Bible says God gave them the land. I believe that Biblically, they forfeited their right to the land long ago by disobeying God, and Jesus told them the kingdom of heaven was being taken from them, and prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem decades before the Jews revolted against the Romans and then the Romans crushed them and kicked them out of Israel.

I already know about the information you gave, and I believe the Jewish re-colonization is anti-God and has been a theft from the people who already lived there for centuries.

But you are getting all one-sided favoring one Abrahamic religion over another, favoring Muslims over Jews, you are only listening to one side of the propaganda.

We live in the Zionist controlled West. We hear Zionist propaganda constantly in the mainstream media. If you live in the Muslim countries, you hear anti-Zionist pro-Muslim propaganda constantly in the mainstream media.

This article gave the truth about what the Qur'an says about Jews. You can choose to ignore that and take the Muslim side just because that's the "anti-Fox News side", or you can be unbiased and realize that both sides are bad.

You need to read some history. You need to research the initial expansion of the Muslim Empire, the Caliphate. They conquered Palestine, along with the entire Middle East and Northern Africa into Spain, and east into India, slaughtering anyone who opposed the expansion of Muslim THEOCRATIC government, killing pagans including millions of Hindus, and oppressing the "People of the Book" which is Jews and Christians. The Muslims are no better than the Jews. The Jews have re-colonized Palestine, they invaded and set up a Jewish government over the Muslims. The Muslims did THE SAME THING when they originally invaded Palestine and set up Muslim government. Then the Crusaders came IN RESPONSE to the Muslim invasion, and the Crusaders ruled Palestine for 100 years until the Muslim RECONQUERED it.

The Muslim empires were the WORLD CENTER OF THE SLAVE TRADE for their entire existence. They were the land of EXTREME MALE-DOMINATED culture where rich Muslims routinely kept harems of women who were SLAVES who could never leave the harem. The historical and modern Muslim culture IS THE MALE-DOMINATED, FEMALE ENSLAVED THEOCRACY THAT YOU HATE.

This is all about power, and the Muslims do not seek an equal democracy with Jews in Palestine, because there is nothing about religious freedom and democracy in the Qur'an, there is the commandment from Mohammed: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

They seek to reestablish Muslim government over Israel, not share power with non-Muslims.

This is the original manifesto of Shiite Hizbollah:

We are the sons of the ummah (Muslim community) – the party of God (Hizb Allah) the vanguard of which was made victorious by God in Iran. There the vanguard succeeded to lay down the bases of a Muslim state which plays a central role in the world. We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. …We are an umma linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad. Our behavior is dictated to us by legal principles laid down by the light of an overall political conception defined by the leading jurist. …As for our culture, it is based on the Holy Koran, the Sunna and the legal rulings of the faqih who is our source of imitation.

It listed the Ayatollah Khomeini as the leader whose "orders we obey;" called on Christians to "open your hearts to our call" and "embrace Islam" and noted that "Allah has… made it intolerable for Muslims to particuate in… a regime which is not predicated upon… the Sharia"; explained that Israel is "the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world."[9

Hizbollah says there that it is wrong for Muslims to be taking part in a government that is not based on Sharia.

This is what the Hamas charter from 1988 says:

“The Islamic Resistance Movement [firmly] believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Trust] upon all Muslim generations till the day of Resurrection. It is not right to give it up, nor any part of it.”

The Hamas Charter:

Article 1 describes the Movement's program as "Islam".[17]
Article 2 of Hamas' Charter defines Hamas as a "universal movement" and "one of the branches of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine".[12][17][18][19]
Article 3 the Movement consists of "Muslims who have given their allegiance to Allah".[17]
Article 5 Demonstrates it Salafist roots and connections to the Muslim brotherhood. [17]
Article 6 Hamas is uniquely Palestinian,[20] and "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine"[12][17]
Article 7 describes Hamas as "one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders" and links the movement to the followers of the religious and nationalist hero Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.[17][19]
Article 8 The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."[12][17]
Article 9 adapts Muslim Brotherhood's vision to connect the Palestinian crisis with the Islamic solution and advocates "fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail".[17]
Article 11 Palestine is sacred(waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone.[17]
Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed" .[17]
Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[17]
Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[17]
Article 15 "The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim".It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is a religious problem".[17]

When you support the Muslims you support their theocratic, male-supremacist, extremely intolerant mentality.

How can you not understand that these people are the same as the so-called Christians who try to force their morality on you in America? It is a million times worse for a woman in the Muslim world, a million times worse.

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 02:26 AM
Muslims called it the "Seal of Solomon" and it's interesting that the hexagram has long been associated with the occult, because Solomon has also long been associated with the occult. Solomon has been associated with demonology since time immemorial. The canonical bible white washes this as 'worshiping false gods' and 'taking multiple wives' while the Koran does not and refers to the demons as Jinn. There are plenty of ancient books about it too. Solomon is very likely a fictional character. No physical evidence has ever been found to prove he existed, especially not in Palestine. The myths about Solomon exist all over the 'Old World' even in areas where Abrahamism has no history. He is definitely a strange character, whoever he was.

The canonical Bible doesn't whitewash anything about Solomon's apostasy. The Bible says Solomon turned against God because he took pagan wives in direct defiance of God's command and then fell into pagan idolatry through the influence of those pagan wives, he built pagan temples in Israel and all that led to the civil war that split Israel into two nations. The Bible does not go in-depth discussing Solomon's specific occult activities.

Islam on the other hand claims that Solomon never turned against God and that he controlled jinn(demons) by the power of God, they call him Prophet Suleiman and basically according to them he was like Glinda the Good Witch from the Wizard of Oz, or in more recent popular media...Harry Potter.

According to the Bible there is no such thing as good witchcraft, no such thing as witchcraft done through the power of God. Divination and necromancy are listed as grievous sins, and really, why would God need to give a man the power to control demons when he has armies of angels at his command? The Bible shows men casting out demons through God's power, not controlling them to do their bidding as the Prophet Suleiman does.

So no, the Bible didn't whitewash Solomon's occultism, Mohammed whitewashed Solomon's occultism.

As far as the Seal of Solomon goes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nna56fTPEuk/Tbo_UhdekjI/AAAAAAAAB8s/g3v-R-0ro_g/s1600/MJ+2011+album+covers+blood+on+the+mason.jpg

The floor in every Masonic lodge is covered in a checkerboard pattern. Please let that image marinate your brain. The Masons believe that good and evil are necessary for balance, which logically necessitates that morality is subjective.

http://0.tqn.com/d/taoism/1/0/0/-/-/-/yinYang.gif

The Taoists agree.

The Wiccans agree.

For most Wiccans, the God and Goddess are seen as complementary polarities in the universe that balance one another out, and in this manner they have been compared to the concept of yin and yang found in Taoism.

The Buddhists agree.

The Middle Way

3.An explanation of Nirvana (perfect enlightenment), a state wherein it becomes clear that all dualities apparent in the world are delusory (see Seongcheol)

All the pagan religions love to make excuses for evil, they promote the idea that evil either does not exist, or that it is necessary to the "balance".

And the mother of all this is Kabbalah:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Seal_of_Solomon_(Simple_Version).svg/300px-Seal_of_Solomon_(Simple_Version).svg.png

That Seal of Solomon, often falsely referred to as the Star of David, is used as another symbol of the duality of good and evil, the balance of good and evil, the delusion of good and evil, with the opposing triangles overlapping each other in opposite directions.

Wiccan pentagram incorporating the yinyang and Seal of Solomon.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Other%20Pagan%20Mumbo-Jumbo/yin-yang3.jpg

The symbol of the occult New Age Theosophists:

http://nachtkabaret.com/ihvh/img/nk_sp_theosophy_emblem_logo.gif

666: Dark Star ("Star of David" Deception) - YouTube

Brotherhood of Baal - Freemasonry in Israel - YouTube

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 02:37 AM
Balance is what existance is all about. There is no black and white only shades of grey. Satan is god's servant in Job it points this out clearly. Ba'al and Yahweh are two of the seventy sons of El. they are Elohim. Asherah is both sons consort. The war in heaven is based off of this love triangle.

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 02:54 AM
Balance is what existance is all about. There is no black and white only shades of grey. Satan is god's servant in Job it points this out clearly. Ba'al and Yahweh are two of the seventy sons of El. they are Elohim. Asherah is both sons consort. The war in heaven is based off of this love triangle.

And you will go to hell making excuses for evil as will all the rest of the pagans, if you do not repent.

God is sovereign, and Satan has no power that God does not allow.

Asherah and Ba'al are demons under Satan, all in rebellion against I AM, following their evil Wills instead of bowing to the benevolent King.

Man chose to leave Eden and experience evil in the dualist reality, and man can choose to submit to God and accept the atonement of Christ and go on to eternal life in Paradise where there will be no balance with evil because evil has been utterly and finally destroyed.

Revelation 21:4 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 03:18 AM
And you will go to hell making excuses for evil as will all the rest of the pagans, if you do not repent.

God is sovereign, and Satan has no power that God does not allow.

Asherah and Ba'al are demons under Satan, all in rebellion against I AM, following their evil Wills instead of bowing to the benevolent King.

Man chose to leave Eden and experience evil in the dualist reality, and man can choose to submit to God and accept the atonement of Christ and go on to eternal life in Paradise where there will be no balance with evil because evil has been utterly and finally destroyed.

Revelation 21:4 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

YHWH is a Canaanite God the Jews and Christians borrowed him from them. YHWH means" He who creates.' Eyeh asher Eyeh is "I am that Iam." Revelations was referring to the Roman domination over Israel in the 1st century AD. Heaven and Hell are here and now they are inside us and outside us. Man chose liberty over opression in the Garden and was forced to leave in case he decided to eat from the tree of life as well. Man gained Conscience from the fruit of Good and Evil and became as the gods. Jesus said " Are ye not gods." We are divine made in the image of the elohim " the gods".

Do you truly believe the nonsense you just spoke. Many will say I know you Lord on that Day and I will reply away from me for I know you not. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. Jesus was the messiah not God a messiah is a King/Priest in the line of David. He wasn't a virgin birth for in the oldest version of Isaiah found in the Dead Sea Scrolls it says born of a young woman. If he was a virgin birth he could not be the messiah for the Davidic lineage comes through his father, his mother's lineage is priestly through Aaron.

Of course Satan has no power that God doesn't allow but God allows him to do alot doesn't he?

exu156
07-06-2012, 03:29 AM
And you will go to hell making excuses for evil as will all the rest of the pagans, if you do not repent.


Yikes!! His true fundie colors come out.

Horrid stuff! I really don't know how anyone who worships a monster could have his opinion be taken seriously by anyone. Again, it's time for that mirror.

Absolutely disgusting interpretation of spirituality.

This from someone who previously said:

He will commit genocide as judgement for the sin of mankind, their selfishness that leads them to commit genocide against each other, over and over and over again.

It will not go on forever, God will end it.

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. -- John 15:13

God laid down his life for his friends, because he loves us. :)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1060725030&postcount=85

and the babblings of slave mentality:

I have questioned everything, and realized that as an imperfect creation it is stupid to question the Perfect Creator.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1060725034&postcount=87

Horrid!

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 04:27 AM
YHWH is a Canaanite God the Jews and Christians borrowed him from them. YHWH means" He who creates.' Eyeh asher Eyeh is "I am that Iam." Revelations was referring to the Roman domination over Israel in the 1st century AD. Heaven and Hell are here and now they are inside us and outside us. Man chose liberty over opression in the Garden and was forced to leave in case he decided to eat from the tree of life as well. Man gained Conscience from the fruit of Good and Evil and became as the gods. Jesus said " Are ye not gods." We are divine made in the image of the elohim " the gods".

YHWH, "He who creates" or "He who exists", meaning the same as what he said his name is "I AM WHO I AM."

Ignorance of evil in Paradise, protected by and in communion with the Creator is far preferable to the pain and suffering of knowing evil. God is not an oppressor, but the children of darkness want the freedom to do evil so to them he is an oppressor.

In truth the children of darkness are oppressed, slaves to sin, and Jesus came to set the captives free.

Jesus did not preach that all men are divine, he preached that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord God, his Father, the God of Abraham, the same who kicked Adam and Eve from the garden. "Are ye not gods" referred to the seat of judgement held by the Pharisees as referred to in Exodus 22:9.

Do you truly believe the nonsense you just spoke. Many will say I know you Lord on that Day and I will reply away from me for I know you not. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. Jesus was the messiah not God a messiah is a King/Priest in the line of David. He wasn't a virgin birth for in the oldest version of Isaiah found in the Dead Sea Scrolls it says born of a young woman. If he was a virgin birth he could not be the messiah for the Davidic lineage comes through his father, his mother's lineage is priestly through Aaron.

The passage I posted from Revelation is not nonsense, it is the truth and I certainly do believe it. The word in Isaiah in the prophecy meant young woman, an unmarried young woman was a virgin in those days in that culture, a culture very unlike the Sodom and Gomorrah that is our modern West.

Jesus' genealogies on his mother's side and his stepfather's side both descend from David. Joseph from Solomon, Mary from Nathan. There are sons of God and there is the Son of God, there are messiahs and there is the Messiah.

Of course Satan has no power that God doesn't allow but God allows him to do alot doesn't he?

Yes, to allow man his free will choice, and to raise his children through trials and tribulations of Satan that strengthen our bond with our Father.

vancity eagle
07-06-2012, 04:39 AM
The West has labeled Palestinian resistance as terrorism. Mossad agents have staged or provoked false flag terrorist attacks to blame it on Arabs. And Israelis are hypocrites anyway because they sponsor terrorism and the massacre of civilians all the time.

The whole British/Western interest in the ME resources, the Lawrence of Arabia stuff, is also responsible for a lot of this mess. They turned over the Arabian Peninsula to the Sauds. The Sauds are Wahhabists, a dogmatic cult that interprets the Koran literally and archaically. This was forced upon the people and has been a major influence on Islam since the mid 20th century. Most of the negative stereotypes attributed to Islam are because of Wahhabism. The Saud family tree even has Jewish ancestry. Ironic.

In the 20th century, the Zionists transported Jews from all over the ME to Israel. They used false flags to promote sectarian violence and staged pogroms to convinced 'their people' to emigrate. Some of these were real and Israel's fault. Guilt by association.

The non tl;dr version: Muslims and Jews have a shared history and got along mostly just fine until the advent of Zionism and Israel in the last century alone. They are not mortal or biblical enemies, that's Zionist propaganda pretending that conservative religious extremism responsible for the I/P conflict.

I agree with pretty much what you say based on my research. In regards to false flags the Zionists bombed Jewish targets in Iraq in 1951 in order to force the Iraqi Jews to emigrate to Israel. The plan worked even though the Jewish terrorists were caught and exposed by the government.

I am also aware that the Mossad was provocateuring many Palestinian terror groups like Hamas, and Abu Nidal's group in order to give the resistance a bad name, and provide a pretext for military attacks. Israeli agents were even caught trying to recruit members into an Al Qaeda group in Palestine.

Wonder if you have any more info on the various false flags other than the obvious ones like Lavon affair etc. ? Also the intentional displacement of Jews in the middleeast to route them to Israel.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 05:03 AM
YHWH, "He who creates" or "He who exists", meaning the same as what he said his name is "I AM WHO I AM."

Ignorance of evil in Paradise, protected by and in communion with the Creator is far preferable to the pain and suffering of knowing evil. God is not an oppressor, but the children of darkness want the freedom to do evil so to him he is an oppressor.

In truth the children of darkness are oppressed, slaves to sin, and Jesus came to set the captives free.

Jesus did not preach that all men are divine, he preached that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord God, his Father, the God of Abraham, the same who kicked Adam and Eve from the garden. "Are ye not gods" referred to the seat of judgement held by the Pharisees as referred to in Exodus 22:9.



The passage I posted from Revelation is not nonsense, it is the truth and I certainly do believe it. The word in Isaiah in the prophecy meant young woman, an unmarried young woman was a virgin in those days in that culture, a culture very unlike the Sodom and Gomorrah that is our modern West.

Jesus' genealogies on his mother's side and his stepfather's side both descend from David. Joseph from Solomon, Mary from Nathan. There are sons of God and there is the Son of God, there are messiahs and there is the Messiah.



Yes, to allow man his free will choice, and to raise his children through trials and tribulations of Satan that strengthen our bond with our Father.

I never said YHWH was the oppressor you actually insinuated it. I do not follow the Nicean creed but YHWH is my God also. Why do you think I would be accounted among the wicked. Do you just assume? Do you know what the symbol that is my avatar really means or the Taoist wheel. My avatar stands for the sacred union of the Blade and the Chalice. The Blade the upright triangle represents the Sacred Masculine, the Chalice the Sacred Feminine. In Holy Union means marriage under God. We are all Sons and Daughters of God. How do you know the exegesis of what a young woman means in a culture you despise? Young women and young men have always been the same. The Holy Spirit Ruach Hakodesh or Sophia in Greek is Feminine how can two women create a baby? It takes a man and a woman there is no other way. If Joseph wasn't Yeshua's father then why bother posting his geneology? In the story of Job , Job's family are killed how does that strentghen the bond of the children to the Father?

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 07:47 AM
First let me address something I forgot to address from your previous post:

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye" -- Matthew 7:1-5

That means "don't be a hypocrite", not "don't ever judge".

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" -- John 7:24

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2 Timothy 2:15

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" -- Ephesians 5:11

It takes righteous judgment to rightly divide the word of truth and determine what is evil to expose it.

I never said YHWH was the oppressor you actually insinuated it.

No, I did not insinuate it, you stated this:

Man chose liberty over opression in the Garden and was forced to leave in case he decided to eat from the tree of life as well.

That statement means that you side with the Serpent as liberator in the Genesis account. The Serpent is Satan, and the God of Genesis is YHWH, and there is no god above YHWH, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is Genesis 1:1, and that same Creator walked in the Garden.

According to you man chose liberty in the Garden, and according to me man chose slavery in the Garden because he was already free in the Garden, free to choose to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or stay in Paradise munching fruit from the Tree of Life.

I do not follow the Nicean creed but YHWH is my God also.

YHWH is not your God. There are billions on this planet right now who claim YHWH as their God who are children of darkness that refuse the truth and deceive themselves.

The Jews all claimed YHWH. Most of them were fakes. Jesus told a group of them the harsh truth:

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Verse 58 is Jesus equating himself to YHWH, I AM.

Why do you think I would be accounted among the wicked. Do you just assume?

No one who rejects the doctrine of the Word of God, who rejects belief in YHWH as the one and only Creator who has always existed and will always exist, who claims YHWH as a lesser god, who claims that Adam's choice to disobey God and eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents liberation, who says this:

There is no black and white only shades of grey.

...and sports the avatar that says that statement symbolically, the Kabbalist occult symbol that is used for great evil, who believes with Satanic ego that all men are divine, can ever possibly have believed in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit. You are very lost.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. -- Isaiah 5:20

Do you know what the symbol that is my avatar really means or the Taoist wheel. My avatar stands for the sacred union of the Blade and the Chalice. The Blade the upright triangle represents the Sacred Masculine, the Chalice the Sacred Feminine. In Holy Union means marriage under God.

I have read that book, the Blade and the Chalice, and it is full of lies. There is no Divine Feminine or Divine Masculine. There is God, and he is Spirit, he is Infinite, and he is far beyond our conceptions of gender, he created the entire idea of gender, he created this entire dualist reality but he is not dualist he is ONE in three Persons, something that from our frame of reference we can understand but not fully comprehend.

We are all Sons and Daughters of God.

No we are not. We are all creations of God, in our fallen state we are by nature sons and daughters of Satan, but through the atonement of Jesus on the cross we can have our sins forgiven and be reconciled to God and he will adopt us as his children.

How do you know the exegesis of what a young woman means in a culture you despise? Young women and young men have always been the same.

I do not despise the entire culture of Old Testament Judaism, I believe that the Mosaic Law was given by God and the Pharisees twisted the law and added their own laws to it.

The word translated in that verse was understood by all in that time to refer to an unmarried young woman, which absolutely referred to her virginity. Young men and young women have always been the same, and some of them have been raised in cultures where the virginity of the young women especially was fiercely protected.

The Holy Spirit Ruach Hakodesh or Sophia in Greek is Feminine how can two women create a baby? It takes a man and a woman there is no other way.

The Holy Spirit is not Sophia, the Holy Spirit in the New Testament is Hagios Pneuma, which is neuter, and the feminine gender of the Hebrew word for spirit "ruach" does not mean that the Holy Spirit is feminine, just as mesa in Spanish doesn't mean that a table is female. God has no gender. The only gender God has is in the Person of the Son, after the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary and the Son took on human flesh, and the true Holy Union is the marriage of Christ the Husband to his Bride the Church. The Holy Spirit did not need a penis to impregnate Mary, God speaks things into existence, whatever he desires, because he is the Creator.

If Joseph wasn't Yeshua's father then why bother posting his geneology?

http://www.wordofmessiah.org/9/post/2011/10/how-can-jesus-be-the-son-of-david.html

According to the prophet Jeremiah, Jeconiah (a descendant of King David), had come under a curse and made David’s seed through Jeconiah invalid to serve as King: Thus says the Lord, "Write this man down childless, a man who will not prosper in his days; for no man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah" (Jer. 22:30).

Since Joseph was from that line, no physical son of Joseph could inherit the throne of David. Miriam’s line, though, was untainted, thus her son could legitimately lay claim to the Davidic throne.

However, as a stepfather, Joseph was Yeshua’s legal guardian. Thus Joseph provides a legal tie to the line of David for Yeshua. Thus, Joseph’s genealogy is relevant for Matthew’s record. It shows that Yeshua had no father or guardian from outside the line of David that would give Him a non-Davidic lineage.

On the other hand, even if only His mother was in the line of David, it would still be sufficient for Yeshua to be of Davidic lineage. Some traditional Rabbis might protest that the mother’s side cannot give genealogical credentials, and it is true that the biblical records are patrilineal. However, in the Scriptures there are clear exceptions regarding the right of a female to pass along the family heritage (Numbers 27:1-7).

So, whether viewed from the stepfather’s legal side, or from the mother’s biological side, Yeshua is "the son of David," and the authorized Messiah of Israel. In fact, since the Messiah was prophesied to be "virgin-born" (Isaiah 7:13-14), this is the very way the lineage would have had to have been worked out. The fact that the true Messiah not only had to be a son of David, but virgin-born as well, narrows down the field quite a bit. Other than Yeshua, what legitimate claimants are there for the position?

In the story of Job , Job's family are killed how does that strentghen the bond of the children to the Father?

If God is sovereign then Job's children were already where God knew they would be spiritually when he allowed them to be killed, he knew their hearts, if they were his, destined to be his, they were already ready, if they were not his, they were not destined to be his, and he gave them up to their father Satan.

Every action of God cannot be understood, everything that God allows to happen cannot be understood, that is where the faith comes in, the relinquishing of the human ego to trust in God instead of ourselves.

God bless ya. :)

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 09:14 AM
Here is a website you might find interesting passerbye.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 09:47 AM
Here is your Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/mystical-sites-u-s-capitol/

Vatican City

http://www.cuttingedge.org/VaticanObelisk.jpg

http://obeliskseven.com/portals/0/Gallery/435/Vatican%20obelisk%20at%20night.jpg

The obelisk is a phallic symbol of course, opposite the dome of St. Peter's Basilica which represents the feminine.

Washington D.C.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Over_Cap3.jpg

Why do you share the same beliefs as the elites?

valmar
07-06-2012, 12:13 PM
Here is your Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/mystical-sites-u-s-capitol/

Vatican City

http://www.cuttingedge.org/VaticanObelisk.jpg

http://obeliskseven.com/portals/0/Gallery/435/Vatican%20obelisk%20at%20night.jpg

The obelisk is a phallic symbol of course, opposite the dome of St. Peter's Basilica which represents the feminine.

Washington D.C.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Over_Cap3.jpg

Why do you share the same beliefs as the elites?

The Obelisk and the Dome are symbols of the male and female. Is that so bad now? The circle is a representation of female energy and a straight line the male energy.

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 04:16 PM
The Obelisk and the Dome are symbols of the male and female. Is that so bad now? The circle is a representation of female energy and a straight line the male energy.

Is that so bad? Yes, it is very bad, according to the infinite Creator of all that exists, who alone is worthy of worship, not anything that he has created.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. -- Deuteronomy 6:4

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Romans 1:18-25 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols." -- Isaiah 42:8

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html

The worship of obelisks was prominent in Old Testament times as the Israelites deliberately strayed far from the worship of the One True God, beginning to worshipping pagan gods and idols with even more fervor than the pagans. On two different occasions, God caused a righteous king to arise and bring Israel back to the real God. On these two occasions, God caused these righteous kings to destroy all the pagan worship centers, altars, and obelisks ! Listen:

2 Kings 10:23-27 {Selected** -- "Then Jehu with Jehonadab son of Rechab went into the house of Baal and said to the worshippers of Baal, 'Search and see that there are here with you none of the servants of the Lord, but Baal worshippers only' ... As soon as he had finished offering the burnt offering, Jehu said to the guards and to the officers, 'Go in and slay them: let none of them escape'. And they smote them with the sword; and the guards or runners threw their bodies out and went into the inner dwelling of the house of Baal. They brought out the pillars, or the obelisks, of the house of Baal and burned them. They broke down the pillars of Baal and the house of Baal, and made it forever unclean a privy to this day." [Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary ]

God commanded Jehu to break the obelisks of the worship of Baal, and destroy every other thing associated with this worship. Freemasons also revere Baal, and all the Egyptian deities upon which the worship of obelisks is based! Can that tell you the end result of Freemasonry, as they constantly provoke God's wrath? In due time, their feet shall slip, intones God. At God's timing, Freemasonry will meet the same fate of judgment as we see here.

Hosea 10:1 -- "Israel is a luxuriant vine that puts forth its material fruit. According to the abundance of his fruit he has multiplied his altars to idols: according to the goodness and prosperity of their land they have made goodly pillars or obelisks to a false god. Their heart is divided and deceitful; now shall they be found guilty and suffer punishment. The Lord will smite and break down the horns of their altars; He will destroy their idolatrous pillars." [Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]

I find it very interesting that God mentioned the "divided hearts" the Israelis possessed because of their worship of Baal and the other gods that utilize the obelisks in their worship. Is this the reason the Masons have created the Double Headed Eagle as one of their main symbols? Remember also the Scripture that says, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." [James 1:8]

The very same evil elites who pretty much everyone on this message board is aware of and says that they oppose have built great idolatrous monuments to the worship of the creation, monuments to the worship of sex just as the pagans have done throughout history, instead of worshipping the Creator, the doctrine of the Freemasons is exactly the same historic pagan doctrines of the Mysteries and the pursuit of self-divinity.

FREEMASONRY TEACHES MAN IS BECOMING GOD

The triangle is a very important symbol to the occultist, and is used constantly in every conceivable manner. The triangle is used either with the point up or the point down. If the point is down, it represents the Deity and is called the Deity's Triangle or the Water Triangle. If the point is up, it is called the Earthly Triangle, or Pyramid Triangle, and "symbolizes the PERFECT OR DIVINE MAN". Folks, this quote is not from some heinous Black-hooded Satanist, but from a 33rd Degree Masonic author, George Steinmetz [Freemasonry: Its Hidden Meaning , New York, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1948, p. 63, repeated on p. 67] As any person familiar with Scripture will tell you, the Gospel of Jesus Christ tells man boldly and clearly that no person can work themselves up to being "divine"; indeed, all our effort is as "filthy rags" to Jesus Christ. Yet, Freemasonry joins all pagan groups in saying that man can become "divine" or "perfect'. Freemasonry is totally unbiblical on this point.

But, old George is not finished with this subject yet! In another book, he returns to this theme once again, this time blaspheming an important and familiar Scripture, God's own Words, to be exact. Listen:

"Be still -- and know -- that I am God ... That I AM GOD -- the final recognition of the All in All, the unity of the Self with the Cosmos -- the cognition of the DIVINITY OF THE SELF!" [Emphasis in the original; George H. Steinmetz, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Richmond, Virginia, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1923, p. 92]

Can you imagine such blasphemy? This Masonic author has just twisted the Words of God Almighty in Exodus 3:14, by applying them to mankind! This is incredible, but it is more than that, is it not? This blasphemy is an excellent example to show us why Freemasonry has been so sensitive about any of its secrets ever becoming public knowledge. Masons in every age knew that if the general public knew the Satanic core that existed in the heart of Freemasonry, the organization would either go into oblivion or would be arrested and put in jail. Now you know why Freemasonry insists that its Initiates pledge that, if they divulge any of Masonry's secrets, he would agree to having his throat slit and be disemboweled!

Lest you think this blasphemy of saying that man can become God is unique to George Steinmetz, listen to the words of two more Masonic authors. Manly P. Hall, another 33rd Degree Mason, writes, "Man is a God in the making ..." [The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 92] Masonic author, Joseph Fort Newton, clearly and boldly states, ".. to the profoundest insight of the human soul -- that God becomes man that man may become God." [The Religion of Freemasonry: An Interpretation", Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1969, p. 37]

This same doctrine of self-divinity, preached here by the follower of Aleister Crowley exu156, preached here by Michael Sherlock who blasphemes by saying I am Christ, preached here by passerbye999, and many many others, this is the same doctrine believed and preached by the Freemasons and the elite cabal of the Vatican, the same Luciferian, Satanic doctrine is believed and preached by the evil elite controllers...and you people think you are going to fight fire with fire?

You are lost.

I know how to fight the fire, with Living Water.

John 4:7-14 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

This is my prayer:

Dear Father in heaven I praise your holy name, thank you for all you have given me. I pray that you would use what I have written here to soften the hearts of those who are lost that they would recognize your mighty power and be convicted to repent before you. Please use your Word that I have shown them to open their eyes to the truth, send your Holy Spirit to open their hearts to you Lord. In Jesus name, Amen.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 04:31 PM
cramhankie;1060867190]

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye" -- Matthew 7:1-5

That means "don't be a hypocrite", not "don't ever judge".

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" -- John 7:24

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2 Timothy 2:15

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" -- Ephesians 5:11

It takes righteous judgment to rightly divide the word of truth and determine what is evil to expose it.

No it means do not judge. You point out the sliver in my eye but refuse to see the plank in yours. I do not Judge your soul god does that but you have no problem casting judgement on mine. It does not take righteous judgement but discernment todetermine what is evil and good and evil are highly subjective. I do not believe Jesus is god but he is my Teacher. There is a difference and using Paul as a reference quote is not going to get my attention for he was a False Apostle and his works demonstrate that to be the case. 2Cor12-7 His thorn was a Messenger of Satan and it didn't matter how much he prayed because of his arrogance God would not remove it. His own admission.


No, I did not insinuate it, you stated this:

That statement means that you side with the Serpent as liberator in the Genesis account. The Serpent is Satan, and the God of Genesis is YHWH, and there is no god above YHWH, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is Genesis 1:1, and that same Creator walked in the Garden.

According to you man chose liberty in the Garden, and according to me man chose slavery in the Garden because he was already free in the Garden, free to choose to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or stay in Paradise munching fruit from the Tree of Life.

You actually believe this story to be more than just allegory? Two people seeded the entire human race did they? They were never allowed to eat from the Tree of Life that is why they were removed from the Garden. Talking snakes and God actually walking through the garden. lol. God didn't even know where they had hidden themselves from him. No this is a fable for God is omnipresent and omnipotent. Manlind was a slave in the Garden God's little pet monkeys until Satan as you put it liberated them and enlightened them.


YHWH is not your God. There are billions on this planet right now who claim YHWH as their God who are children of darkness that refuse the truth and deceive themselves.

Do you not see how utterly ridiculous this statement is. You alone know billions are in error. I suppose we shall all be killed by righteous judgement too.

The Jews all claimed YHWH. Most of them were fakes. Jesus told a group of them the harsh truth:

I should hope so it is their God more than yours.



No one who rejects the doctrine of the Word of God, who rejects belief in YHWH as the one and only Creator who has always existed and will always exist, who claims YHWH as a lesser god, who claims that Adam's choice to disobey God and eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents liberation, who says this:

...and sports the avatar that says that statement symbolically, the Kabbalist occult symbol that is used for great evil, who believes with Satanic ego that all men are divine, can ever possibly have believed in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit. You are very lost.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. -- Isaiah 5:20

Says you who I think knows nothing about spirituality and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth and She helps the wise discern.


I have read that book, the Blade and the Chalice, and it is full of lies. There is no Divine Feminine or Divine Masculine. There is God, and he is Spirit, he is Infinite, and he is far beyond our conceptions of gender, he created the entire idea of gender, he created this entire dualist reality but he is not dualist he is ONE in three Persons, something that from our frame of reference we can understand but not fully comprehend.

Good for you I never read the book I keep myself busy reading scrolls and texts.



No we are not. We are all creations of God, in our fallen state we are by nature sons and daughters of Satan, but through the atonement of Jesus on the cross we can have our sins forgiven and be reconciled to God and he will adopt us as his children.

Our spirits are immortal the same as our souls, only this body is mortal.


If God is sovereign then Job's children were already where God knew they would be spiritually when he allowed them to be killed, he knew their hearts, if they were his, destined to be his, they were already ready, if they were not his, they were not destined to be his, and he gave them up to their father Satan.

Every action of God cannot be understood, everything that God allows to happen cannot be understood, that is where the faith comes in, the relinquishing of the human ego to trust in God instead of ourselves.

This is utter nonsense. death in no way is justified or moral even with God.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 04:41 PM
Those of us living in the West have been conditioned to believe (especially in the last 45 years) that Muslims and Jews are enemies. That they have been enemies since biblical times, occasionally identified in propaganda as Amalekites or the children of Esau, and also that both have been commanded to kill each other.

This is completely false historical revisionism, and just a quick glance at history will show that Jews and Muslims got along quite well until the late 19th century and the advent of political Zionism.

The establishment propaganda wants people to believe the Israel-Palestine conflict is rooted in a thousands-year-old biblical conflict. That way it perpetuates the status quo because people assume it will never end. In reality, the Israel-Palestine conflict is only about 100 years old, the cause is the Zionist (and European) colonization of Palestine.

One of the reasons the propaganda has been so successful is because the West is unfamiliar with Islam. A little over a century ago, few even knew who Muslims were. Instead, the terms Turk, Saracen, Moor, etc. have (at different times) been synonymous with Muslims. Prior to the separation of church and state, the Christian West was at 'war' ideologically with Islam. That is also why the propaganda has been successful.

Religiously, Orthodox Judaism has a lot of common ground with Islam. For example, it is no coincidence that Halal and Kosher are nearly identical or that Yom Kippur and Ramadan have similarities.

Islamic monotheism replaced the pagan polytheism of the Arabian Peninsula. What is poorly understood by most is that those 'idol worshiping Arabian pagans' were already Abrahamized. Just like the biblical Israelites were at times. In a way, the Arabs were religiously 'Jewish' (and/or Christian) although obviously unorthodox. Islam was sort of a 'reformation' of Arabic Abrahamism.

The Koran has been misinterpreted and mistranslated to fit the propaganda. What most people don't know is that Islam reveres Hebrews and their prophets (like Moses). The Koran calls Israelites "Bani Isreal" meaning "children of Israel" and the context which refers to the Israelites is always positive.

You probably heard some negative quote about Jews from the Koran, so how could that be? Because the Koran doesn't considered the Israelites and Jews to be the same people (and neither should anybody, that's also historical revisionism). The Jews are referred to as Yahud, and yes they are referred to negatively but that's not any different that many other religious have regarded their predecessors, including Christianity which refers to them negatively in the New Testament.

What about the Jews in Medina who were 'slaughtered' by Muhammad's men? Some have said that no slaughter took place or that they were converted to Islam. Either way, the Banu Qurayza tribe of Medina Jews were unpopular because they were tax collectors. Interestingly, so were the similarly spelled Quraysh tribe who took care of the Kaaba in Mecca, the same tribe Muhammad was from. Qurayza and Quraysh are both anglicized as Koresh (Cyrus). History is very likely telling us some lies here, and the two tribes were probably related. There are also some obvious similarities between the Kaaba and a Jewish temple which are probably not coincidence.

Second-class citizens (like Arabian Jews) were treated unfairly at times, but that's the same story for minorities every where. Islam eventually spread to many non-Arab kingdoms. Today 80% of Muslims are not even Arab.

Jewish persecution by Muslims has been grossly exaggerated. Take the Ottomans for example:

(from Wikipedia)




Jews even had elite status in Constantinople. They were wealthy and hung around others who were wealthy. Some Jews were close to the Sultan. They became established merchants (in addition to having a financial role). The Turks welcomed persecuted European Jews with open arms as a result of the Inquisition, and they were given good land to live on.

Although Jews seem to dominate Inquisition literature, it was the Muslims who were primarily expelled. The Muslims had conquered their way across North Africa and onward to Spain and Sicily, which they held for years. There were many prominent Jews among their ranks. If Muslims and Jews were really enemies, they would not have been able to accompany them. Jews and Muslims fought along side each other during the Crusades. Palestinian Jews opposed the Zionist colonists alongside their Muslim and Christian brothers.

What changed?

Israel. In the Arab world, Jew is synonymous with Israeli because Israel has set up shop as the nation of the Jews. Arabs are not antisemitic, they hate Jews because the Israeli Jews stole their land and have been in perpetual warfare with the entire Levant. Read early Zionist journals about how the Palestinians killed a Zionist colonist in revenge for an 'accident' that involved shooting an Arab point blank in the face. The colonists were religious extremist nutjobs who boasted of taking over much of the Levant for religious reasons. To be fair, the initial land was acquired legally. Then they started stealing it. They used the partition plan (never implemented) to declare independence, and warfare to steal a lot of land. They've massacred civilians and they've committed violent acts of terror. This is why the Jews are hated in the Middle East, not 'antisemitism' and not because of the religious theology.

The West has labeled Palestinian resistance as terrorism. Mossad agents have staged or provoked false flag terrorist attacks to blame it on Arabs. And Israelis are hypocrites anyway because they sponsor terrorism and the massacre of civilians all the time.

The whole British/Western interest in the ME resources, the Lawrence of Arabia stuff, is also responsible for a lot of this mess. They turned over the Arabian Peninsula to the Sauds. The Sauds are Wahhabists, a dogmatic cult that interprets the Koran literally and archaically. This was forced upon the people and has been a major influence on Islam since the mid 20th century. Most of the negative stereotypes attributed to Islam are because of Wahhabism. The Saud family tree even has Jewish ancestry. Ironic.

In the 20th century, the Zionists transported Jews from all over the ME to Israel. They used false flags to promote sectarian violence and staged pogroms to convinced 'their people' to emigrate. Some of these were real and Israel's fault. Guilt by association.

The non tl;dr version: Muslims and Jews have a shared history and got along mostly just fine until the advent of Zionism and Israel in the last century alone. They are not mortal or biblical enemies, that's Zionist propaganda pretending that conservative religious extremism responsible for the I/P conflict.

This is an interesting OP there is much to consider I agree with lots of it but I would like to see how the thread develops.

cramhankie
07-06-2012, 04:48 PM
No it means do not judge. You point out the sliver in my eye but refuse to see the plank in yours. I do not Judge your soul god does that but you have no problem casting judgement on mine. It does not take righteous judgement but discernment todetermine what is evil and good and evil are highly subjective. I do not believe Jesus is god but he is my Teacher. There is a difference and using Paul as a reference quote is not going to get my attention for he was a False Apostle and his works demonstrate that to be the case. 2Cor12-7 His thorn was a Messenger of Satan and it didn't matter how much he prayed because of his arrogance God would not remove it. His own admission.

Paul's fruit was righteous, he was a true apostle, you cannot see that because you are a child of darkness.

As Paul said: But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! -- Galatians 1:8

You actually believe this story to be more than just allegory? Two people seeded the entire human race did they? They were never allowed to eat from the Tree of Life that is why they were removed from the Garden. Talking snakes and God actually walking through the garden. lol. God didn't even know where they had hidden themselves from him. No this is a fable for God is omnipresent and omnipotent. Manlind was a slave in the Garden God's little pet monkeys until Satan as you put it liberated them and enlightened them.

Of course God is omnipotent, and of course he knew where they had hidden. You will have your part with Satan and his angels where he is going.

Do you not see how utterly ridiculous this statement is. You alone know billions are in error. I suppose we shall all be killed by righteous judgement too.

Not I alone. I have many brothers and sisters in Christ.

I should hope so it is their God more than yours.

No, YHWH is equally my God, I have been grafted into the vine of Israel.

"If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root" -- Romans 11:17

This is utter nonsense. death in no way is justified or moral even with God.

The utter nonsense is that you will make a moral judgment that the God of all creation has no right of life and death over his creation, when there is no morality according to you, it is all subjective and gray.

It does not take righteous judgement but discernment to determine what is evil and good and evil are highly subjective.

There is no black and white only shades of grey.

believenothing
07-06-2012, 06:55 PM
The canonical Bible doesn't whitewash anything about Solomon's apostasy. The Bible says Solomon turned against God because he took pagan wives in direct defiance of God's command and then fell into pagan idolatry through the influence of those pagan wives, he built pagan temples in Israel and all that led to the civil war that split Israel into two nations. The Bible does not go in-depth discussing Solomon's specific occult activities.

Islam on the other hand claims that Solomon never turned against God and that he controlled jinn(demons) by the power of God, they call him Prophet Suleiman and basically according to them he was like Glinda the Good Witch from the Wizard of Oz, or in more recent popular media...Harry Potter.

According to the Bible there is no such thing as good witchcraft, no such thing as witchcraft done through the power of God. Divination and necromancy are listed as grievous sins, and really, why would God need to give a man the power to control demons when he has armies of angels at his command? The Bible shows men casting out demons through God's power, not controlling them to do their bidding as the Prophet Suleiman does.

So no, the Bible didn't whitewash Solomon's occultism, Mohammed whitewashed Solomon's occultism.

I am irreligious and outside the box of Abrahamism's brainwashing effect on the mind. I am not entirely convinced that Solomon was anything more than a fictional and mythological character. He may have been based on a real person, but most likely nobody who lived in Palestine. There are also similarities between Solomon and the King Arthur legend and they could very well be one and the same.

The scripture has been translated throughout the ages (and words have changed their meaning), mistranslated, misinterpreted, and vandalized. It's not to be taken literally. As a non-religious person I still read it with a rational and open mind and there is obviously metaphors and symbolism buried within.

Taking multiple wives does not refer to multiple marriages given the context. It's taking control of or being possessed by demons. Marriage in mythology almost always pertains to sacred marriage and duality of the self. That's why it is sad to see literalists treat women like shit. It's the same thing as the biblical David being old and 'cold' and needing a 'wife'

Knowledge is hidden in symbolism and metaphors because certain people on this planet don't understand metaphors and abstract words.

That's why the bible whitewashed the story by merely referring to apostasy, worshiping other gods and building temples for them, and taking multiple wives. It doesn't come out and say anything about the 'demons'

Certain Freemasons have another variation of the Solomon story involving why Solomon built the temple to YHWH: To Kill YHWH. The temple is built to certain specifications and the ark is placed inside of it. YHWH is summoned by a blood sacrifice (grail) and pierced with the holy lance/spear of destiny. Blood and water come out of the wound but YHWH doesn't die. The world splits into two world as a result of Solomon's failed 'assassination' attempt.

Pieces of this story are also in the bible. When the 'united kingdom' of Israel splits into two, this is symbolic for the world splitting in two. The world splitting and subsequent lost world/tribes is an archetype which exists in several mythologies, usually after a failed attempt at something big. The piercing blood/water story is applied in one of the gospels to Jesus in the NT as he is crucified and pierced by a Roman solider's spear.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you. The bible account is the official account to you and to your mind. My mind is free from the irrational blindness that comes along with faith-based commitments to beliefs.

I do think Solomon is quite an interesting character though.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 07:08 PM
cramhankie;1060868109]Paul's fruit was righteous, he was a true apostle, you cannot see that because you are a child of darkness.

As Paul said: But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! -- Galatians 1:8

Righteous hey, Paul was a schitzophrenic sexist homophobe who only paid lip service to Jesus. He created his own version of Christ and proclaimed himself an apostle so he could seek the glory of Jesus for himself, he was an usurper. He based his version of Christ on pagan myth Roman/Greek/Egyptian/Zorastrian legend.

How can a true Apostle be possessed by a Daemon? Again 2 Cor12-7. You are obviously a Paulinist that is fine I once was one too. He speaks with false authority but he writes rather well. His theology is lacking but his philosophy and poetry are pretty good.

Like you he loved to condemn even though that is not his or your position in the scheme of things. Only YHWH can condemn but when one follows the Greatest Commandment what is there to condemn. " Love YHWH with all of your heart, mind and soul; love others as you love yourself; love yourself for YHWH and others love you." I added in the measure for without it there is no balance to the scales. I am sure jesus would have thought of it as well if he were truly God.

Of course God is omnipotent, and of course he knew where they had hidden. You will have your part with Satan and his angels where he is going.

If he knew as you say why did he ask where they were hiding and to show themselves? Yeah i am a child of darkness though I have a Splendrous Radiant Body of Light within, I do not hide it under the table or under the bed but place it for all to see and let it's light shine forth. Many have this light 100 % of the Human Race but sometimes I question if Christian Fundamentalists do. " Remember "Are ye not gods?" it means what it says we are divine made in the image of the gods. That is what Elohim means.

Not I alone. I have many brothers and sisters in Christ.

Yes and only you shall have salvation everyone else must die. The world doesn't need to be saved it has been around for 4 Billion years and will continue on with or without us. Mankind on the otherhand just needs to be taught compassion especially Christian fundamentalists. Not all Christians are bad I am a Christian but I will burn I know even though I have known God and Jesus since I was a Toddler.


No, YHWH is equally my God, I have been grafted into the vine of Israel.

"If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root" -- Romans 11:17

Jews are not Christians yet you want to be Israeli and you insult them with everything you say how quaint. Hatred of the Jews comes from Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists. Literalists who read and don't practice exegesis, who take the Bible as the Holy Word of God written by God hinself through the Holy Spirit.


The utter nonsense is that you will make a moral judgment that the God of all creation has no right of life and death over his creation, when there is no morality according to you, it is all subjective and gray.

I never said there is no morality we have a conscience we don't need a Book written by Sheep Herders as Ferrymantothedead says. It is a good book but no scripture is any better or any worse than another. You and I have to disagree on what we think God's love really means. Murder is wrong for example but if someone killed your child and you killed them is that wrong? This is why the Law has what are called crimes of passion. Pre meditated murder is wrong but it is done by Governments too. Christians have killed more people in the name of God than any other religion. It makes many people question God if God is responsible.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 07:13 PM
I am irreligious and outside the box of Abrahamism's brainwashing effect on the mind. I am not entirely convinced that Solomon was anything more than a fictional and mythological character. He may have been based on a real person, but most likely nobody who lived in Palestine. There are also similarities between Solomon and the King Arthur legend and they could very well be one and the same.

The scripture has been translated throughout the ages (and words have changed their meaning), mistranslated, misinterpreted, and vandalized. It's not to be taken literally. As a non-religious person I still read it with a rational and open mind and there is obviously metaphors and symbolism buried within.

Taking multiple wives does not refer to multiple marriages given the context. It's taking control of or being possessed by demons. Marriage in mythology almost always pertains to sacred marriage and duality of the self. That's why it is sad to see literalists treat women like shit. It's the same thing as the biblical David being old and 'cold' and needing a 'wife'

Knowledge is hidden in symbolism and metaphors because certain people on this planet don't understand metaphors and abstract words.

That's why the bible whitewashed the story by merely referring to apostasy, worshiping other gods and building temples for them, and taking multiple wives. It doesn't come out and say anything about the 'demons'

Certain Freemasons have another variation of the Solomon story involving why Solomon built the temple to YHWH: To Kill YHWH. The temple is built to certain specifications and the ark is placed inside of it. YHWH is summoned by a blood sacrifice (grail) and pierced with the holy lance/spear of destiny. Blood and water come out of the wound but YHWH doesn't die. The world splits into two world as a result of Solomon's failed 'assassination' attempt.

Pieces of this story are also in the bible. When the 'united kingdom' of Israel splits into two, this is symbolic for the world splitting in two. The world splitting and subsequent lost world/tribes is an archetype which exists in several mythologies, usually after a failed attempt at something big. The piercing blood/water story is applied in one of the gospels to Jesus in the NT as he is crucified and pierced by a Roman solider's spear.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you. The bible account is the official account to you and to your mind. My mind is free from the irrational blindness that comes along with faith-based commitments to beliefs.

I do think Solomon is quite an interesting character though.

Good post. Linking the splitting in two from the Bible and Freemasonic thought is an interesting parrallel. Your drawing YHWH and Jesus as one into the post with the being pierced by a spear is new to me. Though I have long thought about certain connections between the two though I do not believe Jesus is YHWH but again parrellels are hinted at in prophecy to point to that conclusion.

believenothing
07-06-2012, 07:36 PM
I'll probably create another topic about this in the forbidden history section, but this site brings up some very good points concerning our history. I do not agree with all of them, for example it claims the pyramids were built in much more recent history than they were, but there are many facts about the dangers of taking history at face value.

It's a fact that history is unreliable. Specifically, nothing earlier than the 15th century is reliable. Before the 15th century there are very few surviving written records of anything. What has survived are copies... many made after the 15th century. Dating methods are also not entirely reliable. There may even be a 300 year 'hitch' of 'missing time' as a result of a calender mistake (meaning it's the 18th century right now).

A lot of the historical manuscripts that survive have come from emperors and royalty. AKA biased sources. The real history, the people's history, does not exist. They were mostly uneducated and illiterate and had to rely on passing along knowledge orally.

What this means is that there are PLENTY of reasons for the royalty and ruling class to deceive the people and invent a history. This is precisely what emperors and kings would do. They would invent history to justify their rule. In the modern era we have no good methods of sorting out the truth from the lie. We obviously have no idea who built the megaliths, what they were used for, or how they built them. And it's pretty obvious that many old depictions of saints and angels are modified 'pagan' gods. What else was re-branded?

So what does this have to do with Jews and Muslims?

http://www.revisedhistory.org/empire.html

In William Shakespeare's tragedy, "Othello," there is one riddle: what religion does Othello profess? Desdemona says directly:
By heaven, you do me wrong.
as I am a Christian!
But here the frank and honest Othello is hiding something. It is considered that he, a black-skinned Moor, is a Moslem or at least descendent of Moslems. And if one is to follow the traditional history, then there really is no other variant.
Othello, before he ends his life in suicide, recalls:
. . . And say besides, that inAleppoonce,
Where a malignant and a turban'd Turk
Beat a Venetian and traduced the state,
I took by the throat the circumcised dog,
And smote him, thus.
(Stabs himself)
That is, according to contemporary ideas, Islam already was in the world, since some kind of "circumcised dog" in a turban fought with the Venetian in Aleppo.
Meanwhile, still rather recently (in historical measurements) the military personnel of many countries have worn the turban. And circumcision, as it will be shown in our book, is a most complex phenomenon, which is characteristic at a definite stage for all of human culture.
Thus it is impossible to understand who Othello is regarding faith, and it is not clear why he calls the Turk a dog. But it is not worth accusing Shakespeare of a mistake. Not only he, but also the English in general up to the 17th century did not mention anywhere in written sources the words: "Moslem, Islam, Koran, minaret, muezzin, hijra, Caaba." The full impression is that they did not know them. But you know, the sons of an obscure Albion already had visited all the corners of the world and should have known them. No, these words clearly were unknown to William Shakespeare as well as to both Francis Bacon and other great Englishmen of that era.
They are unknown also to the Italian writer Giraldi Cinthio, upon whose novella the "Moor of Venice" (the "Hecatommithi" collection or "One Hundred Tales." 1566) Shakespeare created his masterpiece.
So, perhaps, there still was not an Islam?

Wait a second here... Not an Islam? That's nonsense.

Can you be so sure? Islam and Orthodox Judaism have a lot in common. They have a lot of differences too, but how many of those differences have happened in the past few centuries without us knowing? Especially considering the lack of education among the non-elite classes throughout the world.

The processing of written sources on a computer, with a comparative analysis of their authenticity, and the other newest methods of the study of history, which were found by the scientists, allows the contention that: in the 13 - 14th centuries of our era, the first world war in history broke out. It ended with the formation of a colossal empire with a capital in Istanbul, which at that time was called Jerusalem. Its territory included a large part of Europe, Asia, all of the civilized regions of Africa and Japan. There is basis to say that the Aztec civilization also was included in the Empire's composition.
Its subjects named their country Israel Israel History : Empire of Jews and practiced a religion which approximately is set forth in the Old Testament. They named their faith catholic.
Having existed for 70-80 years, the empire broke up. The violent creation of states began and the formation of peoples and nations in the modern meaning of these words.

Constantinople/Istanbul was referred to as Jerusalem in some historical references. Hardly surprising considering that the 'founding fathers' of the US said the same thing for the US. But it's interesting.

The Platonic "Atlantis" comprised a large portion of Europe: Modern Portugal, Spain, France, Sicily, Italy, and Malta. It took over a portion of North Africa. The Aztec's were originally called Aztlan (as was their homeland) which is where the name Aztec is derived from. And authors have tried to place Atlantis in the South Pacific given all sorts of clues. (Japan has 'Israelite' customs in their Shinto religion by the way).

So such an empire has already been described as speculative theory. Islam is based on the OT, no doubts there. So is Judaism obviously.

The Ottoman Empire in addition to Morocco, Spain, and Portugal under Muslim control, was also very Jewish. Jews were quite powerful in these Muslim empires (or empire as it is being called here). Europe was at war with this empire, and a lot of European history can trace to the 'fall' of this empire. The 'Dracula' legend in the East associated with Vlad the Impaler. The Avignon Papacy in the West using the fraudlant Donation of Constantine leading up the Renaissance where much of this history could have been revised.

Historical revision did happen after the Spanish Inquisition. That's when Columbus took the Jewish/Muslim trade route maps to (re)'discover' the Americas. The Turks invited the expelled victims, as I mentioned earlier. This was a map of Jewish trade routes again:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4091/jewworldorder.jpg

Note the Star of David flags which were associated with the Seal of Solomon, a bloodline of Jewish leaders in Islamic territory. It doesn't make sense! Not only that, but the Inquisition victims all called themselves "Portuguese" for some reason.

And around that same time is a letter (printed in the 19th century in a Frech Jewish publication):

Before proceeding further, it is worth including here the fact that in 1492, Chemor, the Chief Rabbi of Spain received the following advice from the Grand Sanhedrin in Constantinople in reply to his complaint that the Jews were being pushed out of Spain:

"l. As for what you say that the king of Spain obliges you to become Christians: do it, since you cannot do otherwise.
2. As for what you say about the command to despoil you of your property: make your sons merchants that they may despoil, little by little, the Christians of theirs.

3. As for what you say about making attempts on your lives: make your sons doctors and apothecaries that they may take away Christians' lives.

4. As for what you say of their destroying your synagogues: make your sons canons and clerics in order that they may destroy their churches.

5. As for the other vexations you complain of: arrange that your sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that they always mix in affairs of State, that by putting Christians under your yoke you may dominate the world and be avenged on them.

6. Do not swerve from this order that we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power." Signed: Prince of the Jews of Constantinople."

Add this to the fact that Napoleon's campaign in Ottoman territory was politically motivated by Jews who also tried reviving a Sanhedrin. It's assumed they wanted Palestine, as the 19th century Zionists did by working with the Ottomans.

Even if this is not accurate at all, and history as we know it is (doubtful, history is the lie commonly agreed upon) it doesn't make sense.

I think we humans have collective amnesia, because most of our people were not elites and were uneducated. We've had our history suppressed because we didn't write it down and they wrote one for us. In the past few centuries, in the ME, the Islamic empire looks to have been a Jewish empire or an Islamic and Jewish empire. And a lot of what we know about Islamic theology in the West we've only know for a couple centuries.

Today they want us to believe Muslims and Jews are mortal biblical enemies which can be prove to be a lie. What else is a lie? A lot probably

There have long been dueling Abrahamic theologies in history. Christians vs. Jews and much later Christians vs. Muslims. The old stories made it seem like equally opposed forces. Today the number of Christians vs. the number of Muslims is equal, while Jews are merely a fraction of a percentage (.2% of the world as opposed to 24% and 24%). How did that happen? Conversions probably. But given the similarity between Islam and Orthodox Judaism, together where their shared history (which included military history and imperial history, even in the canonical account of history), I am inclined to believe that they were the same. WHAT IF (and this is speculation) the elites were the Jews and the masses were the Muslims. The latter had no real way of reading and writing so anything could be made up in future generations. And the best time/place to corrupt the theology in the 17th century with Sabbateans:

Sabbateans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History has continued to be revised ever since, including the 'biblical enemy' myth which falls flat given facts we know

roman piso
07-06-2012, 07:40 PM
I do not believe Jesus is YHWH

They are both mythical creations of Ancient story tellers, obviously they not the same, since they are created in different time periods, as well as the fact, that Jesus is a Roman-Grecian Deity.

Muslims and Jews are enemies. That they have been enemies since biblical times

Muslims never existed in Biblical times.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 07:55 PM
I'll probably create another topic about this in the forbidden history section, but this site brings up some very good points concerning our history. I do not agree with all of them, for example it claims the pyramids were built in much more recent history than they were, but there are many facts about the dangers of taking history at face value.

It's a fact that history is unreliable. Specifically, nothing earlier than the 15th century is reliable. Before the 15th century there are very few surviving written records of anything. What has survived are copies... many made after the 15th century. Dating methods are also not entirely reliable. There may even be a 300 year 'hitch' of 'missing time' as a result of a calender mistake (meaning it's the 18th century right now).

A lot of the historical manuscripts that survive have come from emperors and royalty. AKA biased sources. The real history, the people's history, does not exist. They were mostly uneducated and illiterate and had to rely on passing along knowledge orally.

What this means is that there are PLENTY of reasons for the royalty and ruling class to deceive the people and invent a history. This is precisely what emperors and kings would do. They would invent history to justify their rule. In the modern era we have no good methods of sorting out the truth from the lie. We obviously have no idea who built the megaliths, what they were used for, or how they built them. And it's pretty obvious that many old depictions of saints and angels are modified 'pagan' gods. What else was re-branded?

So what does this have to do with Jews and Muslims?

http://www.revisedhistory.org/empire.html



Wait a second here... Not an Islam? That's nonsense.

Can you be so sure? Islam and Orthodox Judaism have a lot in common. They have a lot of differences too, but how many of those differences have happened in the past few centuries without us knowing? Especially considering the lack of education among the non-elite classes throughout the world.



Constantinople/Istanbul was referred to as Jerusalem in some historical references. Hardly surprising considering that the 'founding fathers' of the US said the same thing for the US. But it's interesting.

The Platonic "Atlantis" comprised a large portion of Europe: Modern Portugal, Spain, France, Sicily, Italy, and Malta. It took over a portion of North Africa. The Aztec's were originally called Aztlan (as was their homeland) which is where the name Aztec is derived from. And authors have tried to place Atlantis in the South Pacific given all sorts of clues. (Japan has 'Israelite' customs in their Shinto religion by the way).

So such an empire has already been described as speculative theory. Islam is based on the OT, no doubts there. So is Judaism obviously.

The Ottoman Empire in addition to Morocco, Spain, and Portugal under Muslim control, was also very Jewish. Jews were quite powerful in these Muslim empires (or empire as it is being called here). Europe was at war with this empire, and a lot of European history can trace to the 'fall' of this empire. The 'Dracula' legend in the East associated with Vlad the Impaler. The Avignon Papacy in the West using the fraudlant Donation of Constantine leading up the Renaissance where much of this history could have been revised.

Historical revision did happen after the Spanish Inquisition. That's when Columbus took the Jewish/Muslim trade route maps to (re)'discover' the Americas. The Turks invited the expelled victims, as I mentioned earlier. This was a map of Jewish trade routes again:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4091/jewworldorder.jpg

Note the Star of David flags which were associated with the Seal of Solomon, a bloodline of Jewish leaders in Islamic territory. It doesn't make sense! Not only that, but the Inquisition victims all called themselves "Portuguese" for some reason.

And around that same time is a letter (printed in the 19th century in a Frech Jewish publication):



Add this to the fact that Napoleon's campaign in Ottoman territory was politically motivated by Jews who also tried reviving a Sanhedrin. It's assumed they wanted Palestine, as the 19th century Zionists did by working with the Ottomans.

Even if this is not accurate at all, and history as we know it is (doubtful, history is the lie commonly agreed upon) it doesn't make sense.

I think we humans have collective amnesia, because most of our people were not elites and were uneducated. We've had our history suppressed because we didn't write it down and they wrote one for us. In the past few centuries, in the ME, the Islamic empire looks to have been a Jewish empire or an Islamic and Jewish empire. And a lot of what we know about Islamic theology in the West we've only know for a couple centuries.

Today they want us to believe Muslims and Jews are mortal biblical enemies which can be prove to be a lie. What else is a lie? A lot probably

There have long been dueling Abrahamic theologies in history. Christians vs. Jews and much later Christians vs. Muslims. The old stories made it seem like equally opposed forces. Today the number of Christians vs. the number of Muslims is equal, while Jews are merely a fraction of a percentage (.2% of the world as opposed to 24% and 24%). How did that happen? Conversions probably. But given the similarity between Islam and Orthodox Judaism, together where their shared history (which included military history and imperial history, even in the canonical account of history), I am inclined to believe that they were the same. WHAT IF (and this is speculation) the elites were the Jews and the masses were the Muslims. The latter had no real way of reading and writing so anything could be made up in future generations. And the best time/place to corrupt the theology in the 17th century with Sabbateans:

Sabbateans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbateans)

History has continued to be revised ever since, including the 'biblical enemy' myth which falls flat given facts we know

Even though written history is ambiguios and there may be gaps in it modern archeology has confirmed and validated many of these texts through the use of carbon dating and micra biology- petina analysis. In the last century with massive funded archeological digs they have found proof of many ancient cities and fortresses in the Levant. There was a Jewish empire though it was a lot smaller than the bible states in old testament times and is reflected in the engineering and architecture found in these sites.

They have surmised that David for example was a Tribal Chief and warlord who called himself a King as did his descendents from a n inscribed rock tablet dated accurately to a few generations later where an enemy King boasts of slaying a King in the line of David.

believenothing
07-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Good post. Linking the splitting in two from the Bible and Freemasonic thought is an interesting parrallel. Your drawing YHWH and Jesus as one into the post with the being pierced by a spear is new to me. Though I have long thought about certain connections between the two though I do not believe Jesus is YHWH but again parrellels are hinted at in prophecy to point to that conclusion.

I'm not sure if they are the supposed to be the same either. I've read the spear water/blood thing in other non-Abrahamic myths too. I just can't remember any off the top of my head.

In the Christian Revelation prophecy, it does say Jesus is Lucifer (which is interesting). Despite the Christian belief that the Abrahamic adversary is Lucifer.

I know that Lucifer is either from Latin or Greek for 'Morning Star' but what I didn't know until recently is that it is of Canaanite origin:

Shalim - Canaanite god for evening star
Shahar - Canaanite god for morning star

Yeru - settlement or found (or maybe YHWH, I dunno)

Yeru-Shalim = Jerusalem. That's the official etymology by the way. 'foundation of the evening star'

Yeru-Shahar = Lucifer. That's not official etymology, but given common sense it's pretty obvious IMO because we already know Lucifer is morning star and Yerushahar would be Latinized and Lucifer which means morning star. 'foundation of the morning star'

IMHO these are probably terms for dualistic opposites. So in terms of Jesus, the opposite is their Anti-Christ.

Now I thought this was fringe, but it turned out to be partially truthful. Shimon Peres met (on a few occasions) with the Vatican regarding the Old City and the Temple Mount. The fringe part is that the Vatican has been given or is going to be given sovereignty to the Old City and Temple Mount.

But it's not fringe, I read that there was some sort of formal agreement and it makes no sense that the Temple Mount would be involved in such an agreement because there is nothing Christian on it... or is there?

The foundation stone in the Dome of the Rock has 'footprints' on it which the Koran says are Muhammad's. The biblical Jesus is judged on a stone and leaves footprints on it in a Roman Praetorium. A pilgrims journal mentioned a Roman Praetorium on the Temple Mount. The Al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount was built on the 'ruins' of a Christian church called "Church of Our Lady" dedicated to the Virgin Mary. I put ruins in quotes because I've read enough to convince me that it is the church, at least partially, and that the church was never fully in ruin.

This church allegedly was rebranded by Knights Templar as "Solomon's Temple" (sometimes they say the Dome of the Rock was rebranded). There are legends they excavated here and found all sorts of mythological stuff from a replica Ark of the Covenant (which is no big deal since those things are all over Ethiopia) and other stuff. Now I don't know if it was them or somebody else, but 'pagan' stuff like Roman god statues were found here to.

The Temple Mount is located close to the 'center' of the Old World. Medieval cartographers always put Jerusalem ad the center of maps. Now speaking of fringe, apparently I've read that the real reason they want this location is to destroy the Dome of the Rock and build Solomon's Temple. Here comes the fringe part.. to summon the anti-Christ.

Now I try to keep my mind grounded to reality, but reality is a pretty strange place. And even though I'm not religious, it honestly would not surprise me if they wanted to do some sort of ritual for that purpose, especially considering the YHWH killing story.


Even though written history is ambiguios and there may be gaps in it modern archeology has confirmed and validated many of these texts through the use of carbon dating and micra biology- petina analysis. In the last century with massive funded archeological digs they have found proof of many ancient cities and fortresses in the Levant. There was a Jewish empire though it was a lot smaller than the bible states in old testament times and is reflected in the engineering and architecture found in these sites.

They have surmised that David for example was a Tribal Chief and warlord who called himself a King as did his descendents from a n inscribed rock tablet dated accurately to a few generations later where an enemy King boasts of slaying a King in the line of David.

I've seen the tablet, but isn't just a fragment? The major consensus is the biblical consensus, since they are the people who care about it the most. I need a little more proof than the tablet fragment, but I have no doubt that there was a small Jewish kingdom in Palestine. I just have a feeling the David and Solomon story comes from some place else. Even with archaeology, it's hard to fill in the blanks. No explanation for the Tarim Basin mummies or whether they are Tocharian or not. No information about the Indus Valley Civilization. One of the oldest cities in the world was found near Jericho and they don't know how to explain it. Huge civilization collapse in 13th century BC accompanied by Sea Peoples invasion that cannot be explained. Baalbek's foundation stones and how the heck they got them there or what the site was used for. A lot of guesswork going on in the absence of knowledge. I personally have trust issues with carbon dating and ice core samples, etc. regarding reliability.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 08:23 PM
I'm not sure if they are the supposed to be the same either. I've read the spear water/blood thing in other non-Abrahamic myths too. I just can't remember any off the top of my head.

In the Christian Revelation prophecy, it does say Jesus is Lucifer (which is interesting). Despite the Christian belief that the Abrahamic adversary is Lucifer.

I know that Lucifer is either from Latin or Greek for 'Morning Star' but what I didn't know until recently is that it is of Canaanite origin:

Shalim - Canaanite god for evening star
Shahar - Canaanite god for morning star

Yeru - settlement or found (or maybe YHWH, I dunno)

Yeru-Shalim = Jerusalem. That's the official etymology by the way. 'foundation of the evening star'

Yeru-Shahar = Lucifer. That's not official etymology, but given common sense it's pretty obvious IMO because we already know Lucifer is morning star and Yerushahar would be Latinized and Lucifer which means morning star. 'foundation of the morning star'

IMHO these are probably terms for dualistic opposites. So in terms of Jesus, the opposite is their Anti-Christ.

Now I thought this was fringe, but it turned out to be partially truthful. Shimon Peres met (on a few occasions) with the Vatican regarding the Old City and the Temple Mount. The fringe part is that the Vatican has been given or is going to be given sovereignty to the Old City and Temple Mount.

But it's not fringe, I read that there was some sort of formal agreement and it makes no sense that the Temple Mount would be involved in such an agreement because there is nothing Christian on it... or is there?

The foundation stone in the Dome of the Rock has 'footprints' on it which the Koran says are Muhammad's. The biblical Jesus is judged on a stone and leaves footprints on it in a Roman Praetorium. A pilgrims journal mentioned a Roman Praetorium on the Temple Mount. The Al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount was built on the 'ruins' of a Christian church called "Church of Our Lady" dedicated to the Virgin Mary. I put ruins in quotes because I've read enough to convince me that it is the church, at least partially, and that the church was never fully in ruin.

This church allegedly was rebranded by Knights Templar as "Solomon's Temple" (sometimes they say the Dome of the Rock was rebranded). There are legends they excavated here and found all sorts of mythological stuff from a replica Ark of the Covenant (which is no big deal since those things are all over Ethiopia) and other stuff. Now I don't know if it was them or somebody else, but 'pagan' stuff like Roman god statues were found here to.

The Temple Mount is located close to the 'center' of the Old World. Medieval cartographers always put Jerusalem ad the center of maps. Now speaking of fringe, apparently I've read that the real reason they want this location is to destroy the Dome of the Rock and build Solomon's Temple. Here comes the fringe part.. to summon the anti-Christ.

Now I try to keep my mind grounded to reality, but reality is a pretty strange place. And even though I'm not religious, it honestly would not surprise me if they wanted to do some sort of ritual for that purpose, especially considering the YHWH killing story.

Could be for such a ritual. The Jesus Lucifer story I think is one of spiritual brothers being the antithesis of each other like swartzenagger and de vito in twins. After all there relationship is definately not hostile and Jesus is the Morning star Lucifer the evening star in my opinion one bringing forth the day the other heralding the night. Both the same planet Venus. Venus has always been the pentagram up for positive Jesus and down for negatice Lucifer.

That they both reference the same planet is interesting. More interesting yet is when in Revelations Jesus calls himself Lucifer. So the duality exists within himself. I love the theory for it is very esoteric it its symbolism.

passerbye999
07-06-2012, 08:35 PM
I've seen the tablet, but isn't just a fragment? The major consensus is the biblical consensus, since they are the people who care about it the most. I need a little more proof than the tablet fragment, but I have no doubt that there was a small Jewish kingdom in Palestine. I just have a feeling the David and Solomon story comes from some place else. Even with archaeology, it's hard to fill in the blanks. No explanation for the Tarim Basin mummies or whether they are Tocharian or not. No information about the Indus Valley Civilization. One of the oldest cities in the world was found near Jericho and they don't know how to explain it. Huge civilization collapse in 13th century BC accompanied by Sea Peoples invasion that cannot be explained. Baalbek's foundation stones and how the heck they got them there or what the site was used for. A lot of guesswork going on in the absence of knowledge. I personally have trust issues with carbon dating and ice core samples, etc. regarding reliability.


I like to watch a show called the Naked Archeologist with Simcha Jacobovici. He gets High level professionals from all fields and views to break down contaversial stories and archeological finds. It is where I first saw the tablet. I came to the conclusion of Tribal Chief and Warlord from the Jewish scholar presented for he seemed the most knowledgable and reasonable.

You're right there is a lot of guesswork involved and not a lot of imformation to work with. Mainly fables, stories and myths that are presented as fact. The sea people have always been associated with the phillistines and as an Aegean people based off of heiroglyphs in Egypt. But the seven wise men who appear from the sea that founded the Egyptian civilization definately have an unknown mysterious origin. People have surmised everuthing from outer space to Atlantis.

Yes the Aryans everybody would like to know about especially me for all eastern and western Internal Alchemy originally had to come from them. same with meditation Techniques. Who were these people and how did they get so wise way back then. Truly intriguing mystery.

believenothing
07-06-2012, 08:42 PM
Could be for such a ritual. The Jesus Lucifer story I think is one of spiritual brothers being the antithesis of each other like swartzenagger and de vito in twins. After all there relationship is definately not hostile and Jesus is the Morning star Lucifer the evening star in my opinion one bringing forth the day the other heralding the night. Both the same planet Venus. Venus has always been the pentagram up for positive Jesus and down for negatice Lucifer.

That they both reference the same planet is interesting. More interesting yet is when in Revelations Jesus calls himself Lucifer. So the duality exists within himself. I love the theory for it is very esoteric it its symbolism.

The Christ and the Antichrist are one in the same. I like it. Reminds me of the alpha-omega thing. I'm not religious, but it's not a requirement to appreciate the symbolism in biblical scripture and mythology (and ancient artwork). There is a message encoded there about duality, a message everybody should take seriously. Atheists often attack it as close-minded nonsense without ironically realizing they are equally and oppositely as close-minded (it would help if they read it to understand what they were attacking)


I like to watch a show called the Naked Archeologist with Simcha Jacobovici. He gets High level professionals from all fields and views to break down contaversial stories and archeological finds. It is where I first saw the tablet. I came to the conclusion of Tribal Chief and Warlord from the Jewish scholar presented for he seemed the most knowledgable and reasonable.

You're right there is a lot of guesswork involved and not a lot of imformation to work with. Mainly fables, stories and myths that are presented as fact. The sea people have always been associated with the phillistines and as an Aegean people based off of heiroglyphs in Egypt. But the seven wise men who appear from the sea that founded the Egyptian civilization definately have an unknown mysterious origin. People have surmised everuthing from outer space to Atlantis.

Yes the Aryans everybody would like to know about especially me for all eastern and western Internal Alchemy originally had to come from them. same with meditation Techniques. Who were these people and how did they get so wise way back then. Truly intriguing mystery.

Same here. It's a fact that civilization all sprung up at once and it's a fact that almost all have indigenous myths about visitors teaching them civilization. In the Americas they have myths about being 'born' or 'bred' in a cave, and competing tribes agree that they came out of the ground. I'm fascinated by the mystery

cramhankie
08-06-2012, 02:57 AM
I am irreligious and outside the box of Abrahamism's brainwashing effect on the mind. I am not entirely convinced that Solomon was anything more than a fictional and mythological character. He may have been based on a real person, but most likely nobody who lived in Palestine. There are also similarities between Solomon and the King Arthur legend and they could very well be one and the same.

Everyone who disagrees can call the other brainwashed, but there can only be One Truth about all reality and it is wise to wash your brain with it.

I actually happen to have just started reading Malory's L'Morte De Arthur, which I always wanted to read after having loved T.H. White's The Once and Future King, and I was immediately struck again by the obvious parallel between the birth of Arthur through the murderous adulterous lust of Uther Pendragon for Igraine, and the Biblical story of David, Bathsheba, and Solomon.

The notable difference is that the magician Merlin is the parallel of the prophet Nathan, but in the Biblical story Nathan condemns David's sin after the fact and David repents, whereas the magician Merlin aids Uther in committing his sin.

It is actually a very truthful plot deviation, a pagan magician would be apt to do evil supposedly for the greater good, since they hold the doctrine that I have discussed here, that good and evil are two sides of the same balanced coin, Merlin could aid Pendragon in his evil for the purpose of producing the good king Arthur.

That same idea can be found in the Gnostic Gospel of Judas, where Jesus gives Judas that Secret Doctrine, and commands Judas to do an evil thing and betray him so that Jesus can fulfill his mission to be crucified, he commands Judas to do evil for a good purpose, demonstrating the doctrine symbolized by the hexagram, yinyang, checkerboard floor, and double-headed eagle.

Applying the doctrine of the hexagram, one can easily rationalize that "the ends justify the means", as Merlin does in L'Morte De Arthur, as the false Jesus does in the Gospel of Judas.

This kind of thinking has been used by elites throughout history to excuse all kinds of horrific evil actions, and it is exactly that kind of thinking that was being used by those of the Judeo-Masonic Zionist cabal who planned and executed the 9/11 attacks.

In the canonical Biblical account of John which predates the Gospel of Judas by at least a hundred years, Jesus said this:

"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. -- John 18:20

It seems that it was quite common for authors in the centuries after Christ to take the Biblical record and twist the stories to turn good for evil.

The scripture has been translated throughout the ages (and words have changed their meaning), mistranslated, misinterpreted, and vandalized. It's not to be taken literally. As a non-religious person I still read it with a rational and open mind and there is obviously metaphors and symbolism buried within.

The children of darkness wish that the Biblical books had been mangled beyond recognition through the centuries, since that is an excellent excuse to deny the righteous doctrine found within, but the Dead Sea Scrolls showed only very minor differences from the Textus Receptus, nothing even resembling a major alteration that would affect any fundamental doctrine, just minor differences in grammar and the order of some passages.

No, it was not vandalized, but mistranslated in some cases yes, in recent times intentionally(as in the Jehovah's Witnesses' curiously named New World translation), and it was misinterpreted often. In the Year of Our Lord 2012, those of us with internet access can easily do the research into the Greek and Hebrew translations in seconds that was not so long ago the sole domain of those highly educated in the Biblical languages, so it is easy for the common man to identify mistranslations and misinterpretations, if he has the desire, but most do not, and would rather speak blatant lies to excuse themselves from the truth.

The children of darkness have always shunned a literal reading of the text, simply because they are opposed to the fundamental doctrine that the text literally expresses, so they must claim it to be a cover for hidden meanings.

That is the central doctrine of Kabbalah, the Jewish occultism on which revolves Freemasonry and Zionism.

The Necessity of Evil as an Avenue toward Truth and the Duality of the Divine in the Zohar

http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=116

From that very enlightening research paper:

For the mystic intent on transcending through the various levels of the sefirot, the metaphysical world depends primarily on a delicate balance between the opposing, but mutually reliant forces of good and evil, which compose the Divine realm. The Zohar doesn't present these binaries as opposing dichotomies, or as mutually exclusive entities, but as duplicate mirror images that balance each other in a perfect harmony, which reflects the Unity of the Ultimate Reality. Only when the balance becomes askew does evil pervade and human suffering persist. However, the Zohar maintains that the precarious balance exists primarily as a result of evil dwelling within the Divine essence itself as a core characteristic of God’s nature, and not his antagonist.

The Zohar presents the Torah as a literary text only insofar as it houses the secret wisdom of God, often allegorized as a verbal shell containing a wealth of mystical and metaphysical meaning within its core.

That sounds familiar.

It's not to be taken literally. As a non-religious person I still read it with a rational and open mind and there is obviously metaphors and symbolism buried within

The Kabbalist view is that the Scripture cannot be properly understood by reading it literally, there are hidden secret meanings to every verse. In light of the Kabbalist doctrine that evil and good are necessary and complementary, that means that Kabbalists are trying to find secret evil meanings of verses. That's the logical path that one must take if he denies the fundamental literal doctrine of the Bible which is good, and it is the logical path one must take if one believes that good and evil are necessary to balance, and if one believes that man can reach his inner divinity through eating from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

When the occultists ran into a hard time trying to find evil meanings in Biblical texts that clearly, literally preach good, it became necessary to write entirely new texts to make excuses for evil, new stories using the same or similar characters to express the doctrine of the hexagram, which is where we get Gnostic gospels and Arthurian legends.

Taking multiple wives does not refer to multiple marriages given the context. It's taking control of or being possessed by demons. Marriage in mythology almost always pertains to sacred marriage and duality of the self. That's why it is sad to see literalists treat women like shit. It's the same thing as the biblical David being old and 'cold' and needing a 'wife'

The context of 1 Kings is simply a chronological record of the history of Israel. It is written very straightforward, there is no indication whatsoever that this text is allegorical in any way, as opposed to those many Biblical passages that are said in the text to be allegorical dreams or visions. The passage refers to the literal command from the Mosaic Law against the Israelites taking pagan wives.

1 Kings 11 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.” Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 8 He did the same for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods.

9 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon, “Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”

Knowledge is hidden in symbolism and metaphors because certain people on this planet don't understand metaphors and abstract words.

Said like a true Kabbalist, but I appreciate that you didn't go all the way and call me a fool.

For instance, the Zohar repeatedly uses 'garments' as a metaphor for the literal Torah, the words and stories which clothe the inner meaning of the Torah. The first chapter of the Zohar explicitly asserts that “there is a garment visible to all./ When those fools see someone in a good-looking garment/ they look no further./ But the essence of the garment is the body;/ the essence of the body is the soul!/ So it is with Torah.”

That's why the bible whitewashed the story by merely referring to apostasy, worshiping other gods and building temples for them, and taking multiple wives. It doesn't come out and say anything about the 'demons'

The gods referred to, Ashtoreth, Molech, and Chemosh, ARE demons, they are referred to as detestable false gods, thus they are evil gods, evil spirits, demons that Solomon was giving worship to.

Certain Freemasons have another variation of the Solomon story involving why Solomon built the temple to YHWH: To Kill YHWH. The temple is built to certain specifications and the ark is placed inside of it. YHWH is summoned by a blood sacrifice (grail) and pierced with the holy lance/spear of destiny. Blood and water come out of the wound but YHWH doesn't die. The world splits into two world as a result of Solomon's failed 'assassination' attempt.

The Masonic and Islamic accounts of Solomon as a master magician who controlled demons are simply later embellishments, the fiction of corrupt minds whose predisposition toward the acquisition of occult power made them fantasize about having the power to control demons, and so to fantasize that the apostate Solomon was able to accomplish their own desires, to project their own twisted fantasy of having demons to command on Solomon to create an embellished champion of sin to celebrate as a hero and role model.

Pieces of this story are also in the bible. When the 'united kingdom' of Israel splits into two, this is symbolic for the world splitting in two. The world splitting and subsequent lost world/tribes is an archetype which exists in several mythologies, usually after a failed attempt at something big. The piercing blood/water story is applied in one of the gospels to Jesus in the NT as he is crucified and pierced by a Roman solider's spear.

A nation having a civil war and being divided is not anything very much out of the ordinary in history, and such a recorded event in the written history of any other culture wouldn't generally be explained as some grand allegory, but of course in this situation taking the text literally simply isn't an option because of the spiritual ramifications.

If the Freemasons added piercing blood/water to a story about Solomon killing YHWH in the late Middle Ages or even later, that doesn't demonstrate anything but the ability of Freemasons to write fiction about their greatest fantasy of destroying the hated oppressor who holds them back from their godhood, adding a detail gleaned from the New Testament texts written over 1,000 years prior.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you. The bible account is the official account to you and to your mind. My mind is free from the irrational blindness that comes along with faith-based commitments to beliefs.

I'm not sure what it is that you consider irrational about my beliefs, but in my opinion from my experience life without faith is quite empty.

I do think Solomon is quite an interesting character though.

As do I. The Freemasons are somewhat obsessed with Solomon, but that has much less to do with Solomon himself and much more to do with the Temple to YHWH that he built, the 3rd construction of which the Kabbalist Freemasons do actively desire and work to attain.

The free builders, free from the constraints of YHWH's morality, free to pursue humanist self-deification, to act as gods who determine their own morality, or lack of it, since morality is just a delusion, morality is just the shackles put on them by the cursed tyrant of the Garden.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

exu156
08-06-2012, 05:00 AM
That same idea can be found in the Gnostic Gospel of Judas, where Jesus gives Judas that Secret Doctrine, and commands Judas to do an evil thing and betray him so that Jesus can fulfill his mission to be crucified, he commands Judas to do evil for a good purpose, demonstrating the doctrine symbolized by the hexagram, yinyang, checkerboard floor, and double-headed eagle.

Applying the doctrine of the hexagram, one can easily rationalize that "the ends justify the means", as Merlin does in L'Morte De Arthur, as the false Jesus does in the Gospel of Judas.

This kind of thinking has been used by elites throughout history to excuse all kinds of horrific evil actions, and it is exactly that kind of thinking that was being used by those of the Judeo-Masonic Zionist cabal who planned and executed the 9/11 attacks.

Utterly bizarre to say the least. I love it how you fundamentalists pick and choose what suits and reject what doesn't. Must be a wonderful way to live.

Many of the scriptural text that didn’t get voted into the Bible along with the scriptural texts that were removed from the Bible during a canonization can be found in the Apocrypha. The name comes from the Greek word meaning “those having been hidden away.” Many books have been lost completely but are mentioned in the Bible:

Book of Jasher Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18
Book of the Acts of Solomon 1 Kings 11:41
Book of Samuel the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Gad the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Nathan the Prophet 1 Chronicles 29:29, 2 Chronicles 9:29
Prophecy of Ahijah 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Visions of Iddo the Seer 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 12:15, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Book of Shemaiah 2 Chronicles 12:15
Book of Jehu 2 Chronicles 35:25
Sayings of the Seers 2 Chronicles 33:19
Lament for Josiah 2 Chronicles 35:25

Was it Divine Insight which determined that these should have been lost? Can an incomplete manuscript be perfect?

The first person to mention the four Gospels was Irenaeus whom also believed that Jesus was 50 when he died. Why 4 Gospels, Irenaeus tells us;

"It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are, since there are four directions of the world in which we are, and four principal winds...the four living creatures [of Revelation 4.9] symbolize the four Gospels...and there were four principal covenants made with humanity, through Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Christ"

Oops do I smell a little symbolism going on here?

The books of the bible were never meant to be taken as literal documents, the events which they describe were never meant to be taken as literal history. The Zohar tells us regarding the books of Moses for example;

"The narratives of the doctrine are its cloak. The simple look only at the garment - that is upon the narrative of the doctrine; more they know not. The instructed however, see not only the cloak, but what the cloak covers."

Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (1135-1204) wrote concerning the Old Testament;

"Every time that you find in our books a tale, the reality of which seems impossible, a story that is repugnant to both reason and common sense, then be sure that the tale contains a profound allegory veiling deeply mysterious truth...and...the greater the absurdity of the letter, the deeper the wisdom of spirit."

The concealed message that the Bible holds underscores the mystery teachings of all secret societies. One can find hints to this mysterious secret throughout the bible but also in other traditions as well, Mohammad told his followers;

"I received two kinds of knowledge, one of these I taught...but if I had taught them the other it would have broken their throats."

And Gautama Buddha as well;

"O disciples, the things which I have discovered and have not told you are more numerous than those which I have told you."

In the canonical Biblical account of John which predates the Gospel of Judas by at least a hundred years, Jesus said this:

"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. -- John 18:20

It seems that it was quite common for authors in the centuries after Christ to take the Biblical record and twist the stories to turn good for evil.

Ah yes ' the canonical Biblical account of John which predates the Gospel of Judas' and yet Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria (c. 264) recorded that the Gospel of John was 'the forgery of an Egyptian Jew named Cerinthus'. This was also confirmed by Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius. A full account can be found in The New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 1080).

The Gospel of John has always been problematical. The learned church authorities that contributed to the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica admitted;

"It (John) has been severely edited, as its closing words make clear; and there is evidence of heavy tempering in the earliest manuscripts, obviously glossed and so forth, as well a sheer muddle. Thus Chapter Five should follow Chapter Six and the final chapter is clearly an addition." (Encyclopedia Britannica, ed.IX, vol.10, p.783ff)

There were also claims that the Gospel of John was a forged copy of an earlier pre-Christian text whose wording was changed to appear Christian. This claim was made by none other than the very highly venerated Bishop of Rome, Callistus I, who stated that this earlier text was sealed in an urn "...in a cavern under the Temple of Jerusalem, having been placed there in secret long anterior (previous) to the Christian era." (The Edict of Callistus, Victor Germain's trans., 1822)

It is no surprise then that some 8000 consultants named in 200 pages of the 1967 edition of The New Catholic Encyclopedia agreed regarding the Gospel of John that;

"some of its irregularity undoubtedly stems from the history of editing." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, p. 1087)

The children of darkness wish that the Biblical books had been mangled beyond recognition through the centuries, since that is an excellent excuse to deny the righteous doctrine found within, but the Dead Sea Scrolls showed only very minor differences from the Textus Receptus, nothing even resembling a major alteration that would affect any fundamental doctrine, just minor differences in grammar and the order of some passages.

Ah yes of course, 'the children of darkness.' Would they be the people who disagree with your opinion? And regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls and its accuracy you really mus read:

http://www.thelowestroom.com/Documents/deadseadeception.pdf

No, it was not vandalized, but mistranslated in some cases yes, in recent times intentionally(as in the Jehovah's Witnesses' curiously named New World translation), and it was misinterpreted often. In the Year of Our Lord 2012, those of us with internet access can easily do the research into the Greek and Hebrew translations in seconds that was not so long ago the sole domain of those highly educated in the Biblical languages, so it is easy for the common man to identify mistranslations and misinterpretations, if he has the desire, but most do not, and would rather speak blatant lies to excuse themselves from the truth.

Not vandalized? What a classic.

The Bible text Revelation 15:3 is a verse that clearly illustrates the ancient cultural war within Christianity between Gnosticism and Orthodoxy. The text tells us that seven angels held harps given to them by God. They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the Ages.” (New International Version 1984)

Some readers would find this text surprising, not just for the cosmic symbolism of seven angels celebrating God as King of Ages, but also because many translations do not contain this final word ‘Ages’ but replace “King of the Ages” with “King of the Nations” or “King of the Saints”. Indeed the current NIV has fallen into line with this alternate reading, changing its 1984 text and using “King of the Nations”, relegating “Ages” to a footnote which states “Some manuscripts ages”. But the extraordinary thing about this question is that ‘Ages’ is the original text, and it appears that ‘Nations’ and ‘Saints’ are later changes introduced by Church Fathers to reflect emerging orthodox dogma.

This small textual difference points to an immense political conflict within ancient Christian interpretation. Original Gnosticism saw God and Christ as revealed in the natural cosmos. By this view, the description of God as ‘king of the ages’ refers to the observed movement of the heavens measured in the slow precession of the equinox through the twelve signs of the zodiac over the course of the Great Year, forming a perpetual cycle of twelve Ages or Aeons. However, in the early church a usurping political orthodoxy suppressed the original natural vision that had linked God to the perceived structure of time, in favour of the supernatural Christian doctrine that separates spirit from nature. So, the dogmatists replaced the natural term ‘ages’, respecting the cosmic immensity and eternity of God, with the anthropocentric terms ‘nations’ or ‘saints’, emphasising their much more limited historical and political vision.

To justify this reading of Ages as the most likely original text, we can look to the discussion of this verse at a website promoting the inerrancy of the King James Version of the Bible. http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/saints-or-nations-or-ages-in-revelation-153 analyses the claims for the different readings. It notes that the Textus Receptus, the source for the King James Bible, shows Latin Church Father support for the reading of "King of Saints”. From this fundamentalist viewpoint "King of saints" and "King of the nations" are seen as “fitting titles for God in the context of Revelation 15:3”, with "King of the nations" found in CEV, ESV, HCSB, NASB, NIV 2011, NLT, TNIV.” The various translations can be compared at http://bible.cc/revelation/15-3.htm

Despite the common use of ‘saints’ and ‘nations’, the first very good reason why “Ages” has support is that it is the original text. As the supporters of the KJV acknowledge, “the problem, however, is that the oldest manuscripts have "King of the ages". The two earliest extant manuscripts of Revelation 15:3 are Papyrus 47 (250 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), both of which have "King of the Ages". The earliest manuscript for "King of the nations" is Codex Alexandrinus from 400 AD. This is an example where modern textual critics do not always follow the earliest manuscripts for any given passage if that early reading does not support their views. … King of the ages is a very ancient reading.”

As noted, ‘ages’ predates ‘nations’ by 150 years in the extant records, but does not support the views of ‘modern textual critics’.

The KJV inerrantists present the feeble argument that "ages" (αιωνων) and "saints" (αγιων) look very similar, and ages is a simple mistake in the earliest documents, despite the supposedly inspired status of the text. They add the letter gamma (γ) to aion to produce the KJV reading, removing a key Gnostic idea. These supporters of the KJV are explicit about their support for the altered text as a political move: “As for why scribes may have changed "King of the ages" to "King of the nations" … the meaning of "King of the Aeons" … may have given uncomfortable Gnostic undertones.”

What are these “uncomfortable Gnostic undertones”? Basically, it is that the Bible contains a theology grounded in accurate observation of nature, with the idea that events on earth are reflections of the observed cycles of the heavens. Contrary to the view of dogmatic supporters of KJV inerrancy, Gnostic ideas pervade the book of Revelations, and the Gospels. Suppression of this one mention of Ages does not remove the Gnostic cosmology from the canon. The idea of Ages promotes a natural cosmology, readily observable in ancient times, that explains the real framework of the Biblical understanding of time and space based on accurate long term observation of the precession of the equinox.

For example, the holy city described in Revelation 21 is totally Gnostic, with its twelve jewels representing the twelve Aeons of the Ages of the Zodiac, listed in reverse as per precession by old Babylonian tradition. The river of life in Rev 22 is the Milky Way galaxy, while the tree of life growing on both sides of the river, with its twelve fruits, one for each month, is the zodiac. The handing of ‘power, seat and authority’ from the dragon to the leopard-bear-lion in Rev 13 is an allegorical description of the precession of the North Celestial Pole over historical time. King of the Ages in Rev 15 fits perfectly with these Gnostic cosmic themes.

We see therefore that “Ages” was replaced by Latin scribes in ancient times to serve their secular theological agenda of promoting the miraculous and mysterious power of the church, favouring an alienated transcendental vision which required the church as the intermediary between community and God. The church was in conflict with Gnostics who promoted a natural theology, and saw discussion of aeons as a key marker for the debate over orthodoxy. Even though 1 Timothy had used the phrase King of the Ages, it sat uncomfortably with Orthodox views of canonical dogma.

This textual change raises the question of the extent to which such censorship was successful more broadly. How many ancient texts were originally far more natural and cosmic in intent like this one, only to be altered to make them acceptable to the supernatural doctrines of orthodoxy?

The fundamentalists say that King of the Ages does not fit the context. But consider the line “They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb.” A Gnostic reading of the myth of Moses and the ‘song of the Lamb’ can readily support the idea of God as King of the Ages.

There is support for this argument from Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, where verses 10:2-3 state that the Israelites “were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.” Paul's idea of the pre-existence of Christ as a ‘spiritual rock’ in the time of the Exodus opens the spiritual idea of a mythical eternal Christ as the content of the song of Moses. The description in Numbers 21 of the snake on the pole, cited in John 3:14 as the model for the cross and basis of eternal life, provides further support for the Mosaic Gnostic idea of the cross as a cosmic symbol. For a Gnostic cosmic reading, this idea of the snake can readily be linked to the vision of the centrality of the north celestial pole concealed in Rev 13, and the idea of the four corners of heaven as marking the points of the cross and the four living creatures in Ezekiel 1 and Rev 4:6. And the seven angels who sang the song of Moses and the Lamb make good sense as referring to the sun and moon and five visible planets.

Church father Clement of Alexandria helped to explain the use of such natural symbols in scripture, saying: "All who have treated of divine matters have always hid the principle of things and have delivered the truth enigmatically, by signs and symbols, allegories and metaphors." http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html

The analysis therefore suggests that discussion of the song of Moses in Revelation is allegory for cosmic wisdom.

So too the ‘song of the Lamb’. Ancient astrology, well known to spiritual seers including the authors of Revelation, observed that the spring point, the position in the sky of the sun at the March equinox, moved out of its old position in the constellation Aries the Ram into the constellation of Pisces the Fishes at the time of Christ. Astronomical software shows that the precise date when the equinox crossed the first fish of Pisces was 21 AD, providing a marker for the New Age, the turning point at the beginning and end of time, at the purported time of the ministry of Christ. This date, and the decades around it, was a unique time when the constellations of the sky matched the seasons of the earth precisely, so that earth was in tune with the heavens, on earth as in heaven.

It is entirely fitting in Gnostic terms that this moment of cosmic attunement gave rise to the myth of the incarnation of the anointed saviour Jesus Christ. In terms of natural reason, the pre-existent logos described by Paul as appearing to Moses and the prophets indicated the time before the alignment of the seasons and the stars, while the moment of alignment indicates the descent of God from heaven to earth, mythologized as the incarnation of Christ.

The ‘song of the lamb’ described in Revelation can therefore be interpreted as both the beginning of each new year in the sign of Aries the Ram, and also the end of the previous age and Great Year in the Age of Aries. Jesus Christ as beginning and end, alpha and omega, is therefore a cosmic symbol who can be understood as the song of Moses and the lamb, pointing to the unity of father and son as king of the ages, within an entirely natural theology.

The Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the mid fourth century AD, is available at an excellent website: http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59&chapter=15&lid=en&side=r&verse=3&zoomSlider=0#59-14-10-10

As shown in the screenshot from this link below, and as I mentioned above, the old document states AIONON (αιωνων - Ages) at Revelation 15:3. The photo of the Codex Sinaiticus manuscript clearly shows AIONON (ages).

http://i25.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0608/e3/2e9b74ec987ec9edaab6fd25d0f4a2e3.gif

However, the translation uses AGIONON (saints - from αγιων), a completely different word, with a letter added. The interpolation of the G (gamma - γ) for the translation is blatant. This mid fourth century manuscript clearly says God is king of the ages, not nations or saints. It is as though I was reading a book which had the word 'star', and thought to myself, I would prefer the meaning if it said 'stair', and then tried to get all editions of the book changed to accord with my whim, because star supported the views of people I disagreed with.

This King of the Ages example shows the power of convention to ignore inconvenient evidence. The compilers of the website have ignored the clear text in front of them, and instead chosen to use the KJV mistranslation, an error which the fundamentalist bullies have now imposed on the New International Version of the Bible as well, which has now corrupted its correct 1984 translation of this verse. There is in fact an Orwellian dimension to this story [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#The_War ] - who controls the past controls the future - Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia, just as Orthodoxy has 'always' been at war with Gnosticism. The facts differ from the propaganda.

One can well imagine the attitude of the scribe who first changed Ages to Saints in the fourth century. With heresiology rampant, and the Gnostic doctrine of the Ages seen as a core theme of heresy, the word Ages was altered to Saints to make the text more congenial to orthodoxy. That is the nature of blind faith.

So much for Biblical inerrancy. The fundamentalist theologians obviously regard their own dogmatic opinions as inerrant, and have shown themselves willing and able to unscrupulously censor and manipulate the original source documents of the Bible to advance their baseless views.

Was the alteration of Rev 15:3 from the original term Ages to the alternatives Saints or Nations an error or a deliberate change?

The alteration of the original text King of the Ages to King of the Nations or King of the Saints at Revelation 15:3 presents a useful case study to help reconstruct the political debate in the early church about the purpose and intent of the gospel story.

Why did Orthodoxy reject Gnosticism? This is essentially a practical question, turning on the experience of the early church regarding the utility of different doctrines. Orthodox Historicism regarding Jesus centres on the idea of an interventionist God who cares personally about the world and the salvation of every individual. If God did miraculously intervene in history in the person of Jesus Christ, it presents a simple believable message to prove that our world is not really as it seems, but that a hidden force of goodness is working to transform the political situation towards an ethic of love and truth. The church is the representative of this hidden force for good, working against the evil pagans to transform the world, justified by the claim of historical intervention in Christ.

This Orthodox attitude clashes with the Gnostic idea of the evil demiurge who made the world, and with the Gnostic doctrine of a spiritual escape as the only path of salvation. Orthodoxy says we can explain God in real historical terms that are fairly easily comprehensible, whereas Gnosticism says that extensive scholarship and retreat from the world are needed for salvation. The contrast between the ethical ideals of transformation and escape reflects the difference between Christianity and Buddhism, which seems to have been a strong influence on Gnosticism.

As king of nations or saints, God relates directly to human history, as revealed in the story of the incarnate Christ, who is `One with the Father' in this kingly role. God's relation to saints and nations becomes a personal matter of care and concern. But as king of ages, God is purely transcendent and eternal. To relate to such a God requires an acceptance of sublime indifference on God's part towards our personal cares, and an eschatological sense that the gulf between humanity and God can only be bridged through a total cultural change, not to be expected through temporal works and timeframes. The king of ages provides no traction for the growth and power of the church in the secular world.

King of Nations or Saints supports the Augustinian theology of realized eschatology, the idea that the Kingdom of Heaven has begun in history with the work of Christ as its cornerstone. King of Ages presents a far more bleak picture for hopes of immediate redemption, setting atonement and reconciliation with the divine in a far more remote context.

Against this practical framework, we can begin to understand why an early Gnostic picture of the identity of Christ as spiritual myth did not serve the ongoing needs of the church. In constructing a building, the builder uses cranes and platforms that are removed when the building is finished. King of Ages worked for Orthodoxy like a construction crane, putting the components into place, but of no apparent use once they had the finished product. Keeping formwork and cranes on a building site is useless after they are needed. They are taken away, and the end users of the building, if they had the interest, would face a very difficult task to reverse engineer the construction process.

Like rubble on a building site, texts like the King of Ages and its alteration help us to reverse engineer the process of construction of the New Testament, from an original spiritual cosmic mythology to the historical fable of an interventionist God.

Current apologists for the historical Jesus, and in this case for the inerrancy of the KJV version of this verse, look rather like people who claim a building was miraculously constructed without cranes or formwork.

The children of darkness have always shunned a literal reading of the text, simply because they are opposed to the fundamental doctrine that the text literally expresses, so they must claim it to be a cover for hidden meanings.

That is the central doctrine of Kabbalah, the Jewish occultism on which revolves Freemasonry and Zionism.

The Necessity of Evil as an Avenue toward Truth and the Duality of the Divine in the Zohar

Wow you really have no clue have you?

The Kabbalist view is that the Scripture cannot be properly understood by reading it literally

Could that be because it was never meant to be read literally?

there are hidden secret meanings to every verse. In light of the Kabbalist doctrine that evil and good are necessary and complementary, that means that Kabbalists are trying to find secret evil meanings of verses. That's the logical path that one must take

Logical to a fundamentalist maybe.

When the occultists ran into a hard time trying to find evil meanings in Biblical texts that clearly, literally preach good, it became necessary to write entirely new texts to make excuses for evil, new stories using the same or similar characters to express the doctrine of the hexagram, which is where we get Gnostic gospels and Arthurian legends.

Sorry but I cannot find a facepalm picture good enough to do justice to your words.

The context of 1 Kings is simply a chronological record of the history of Israel. It is written very straightforward, there is no indication whatsoever that this text is allegorical in any way, as opposed to those many Biblical passages that are said in the text to be allegorical dreams or visions.

Well if you say so then it must be. You are all wise after all.

1 Kings 11 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.” Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 8 He did the same for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods.

9 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon, “Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”

You don't even know what the name Solomon means and how it further discredits your literalism. Here is a clue:

Sol - Latin for sun
Om - Sanskrit for the solar force
On - Egyptian for sun

Isn't it interesting that a book written originally in Aramaic, translated into Hebrew, translated into Greek, translated into German and the finally translated in English is still the literal word of God? Isn't it amusing that we even find some Latin in its wording. Remember Lucifer? What is the origin of the word?

You do know that words tend to change meaning when translated or modified? Want an example? Find an English one word translation for the Portuguese word 'Saudade'. Go on, I dare you.

I'm not sure what it is that you consider irrational about my beliefs, but in my opinion from my experience life without faith is quite empty.

Well that's your experience isn't it? Doesn't mean the rest of us have to share it or be called Satanists or 'children of darkness' because we don't share your opinion. The ego is a funny thing, especially when it pretends to be spiritual.

As do I. The Freemasons are somewhat obsessed with Solomon, but that has much less to do with Solomon himself and much more to do with the Temple to YHWH that he built, the 3rd construction of which the Kabbalist Freemasons do actively desire and work to attain.

The free builders, free from the constraints of YHWH's morality, free to pursue humanist self-deification, to act as gods who determine their own morality, or lack of it, since morality is just a delusion, morality is just the shackles put on them by the cursed tyrant of the Garden.


This is just too funny to deserve a serious reply. Total and utter misunderstanding of Freemasonry and its symbolism. Utter madness!

khepera2010
08-06-2012, 02:20 PM
And you will go to hell making excuses for evil as will all the rest of the pagans, if you do not repent...

Wow...just wow!

Fundie followers of the desert religions need to get out their bibles, skake out the sand and read the little line that goes ''...judge not, lest ye be judged''. It's frightening to think that these religions came out of the middle east some 16/1700 years ago and have held such sway in the western world since.

How can any right thinking person believe the words of these books, which re-define the terms 'good' & 'evil' and were written as population 'control mechanisms'? The Universal Creator is far far above the shite pulled by the so-called God of the desert holy books but this simple fact eludes the frightened and slave like mindsets of the abrahamic adherents.

believenothing
08-06-2012, 05:38 PM
Utterly bizarre to say the least. I love it how you fundamentalists pick and choose what suits and reject what doesn't. Must be a wonderful way to live.

Many of the scriptural text that didn’t get voted into the Bible along with the scriptural texts that were removed from the Bible during a canonization can be found in the Apocrypha. The name comes from the Greek word meaning “those having been hidden away.” Many books have been lost completely but are mentioned in the Bible:

Book of Jasher Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18
Book of the Acts of Solomon 1 Kings 11:41
Book of Samuel the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Gad the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Nathan the Prophet 1 Chronicles 29:29, 2 Chronicles 9:29
Prophecy of Ahijah 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Visions of Iddo the Seer 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 12:15, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Book of Shemaiah 2 Chronicles 12:15
Book of Jehu 2 Chronicles 35:25
Sayings of the Seers 2 Chronicles 33:19
Lament for Josiah 2 Chronicles 35:25

Was it Divine Insight which determined that these should have been lost? Can an incomplete manuscript be perfect?

The first person to mention the four Gospels was Irenaeus whom also believed that Jesus was 50 when he died. Why 4 Gospels, Irenaeus tells us;

"It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are, since there are four directions of the world in which we are, and four principal winds...the four living creatures [of Revelation 4.9] symbolize the four Gospels...and there were four principal covenants made with humanity, through Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Christ"

Oops do I smell a little symbolism going on here?

The books of the bible were never meant to be taken as literal documents, the events which they describe were never meant to be taken as literal history. The Zohar tells us regarding the books of Moses for example;

"The narratives of the doctrine are its cloak. The simple look only at the garment - that is upon the narrative of the doctrine; more they know not. The instructed however, see not only the cloak, but what the cloak covers."

Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (1135-1204) wrote concerning the Old Testament;

"Every time that you find in our books a tale, the reality of which seems impossible, a story that is repugnant to both reason and common sense, then be sure that the tale contains a profound allegory veiling deeply mysterious truth...and...the greater the absurdity of the letter, the deeper the wisdom of spirit."

The concealed message that the Bible holds underscores the mystery teachings of all secret societies. One can find hints to this mysterious secret throughout the bible but also in other traditions as well, Mohammad told his followers;

"I received two kinds of knowledge, one of these I taught...but if I had taught them the other it would have broken their throats."

And Gautama Buddha as well;

"O disciples, the things which I have discovered and have not told you are more numerous than those which I have told you."



Ah yes ' the canonical Biblical account of John which predates the Gospel of Judas' and yet Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria (c. 264) recorded that the Gospel of John was 'the forgery of an Egyptian Jew named Cerinthus'. This was also confirmed by Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius. A full account can be found in The New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 1080).

The Gospel of John has always been problematical. The learned church authorities that contributed to the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica admitted;

"It (John) has been severely edited, as its closing words make clear; and there is evidence of heavy tempering in the earliest manuscripts, obviously glossed and so forth, as well a sheer muddle. Thus Chapter Five should follow Chapter Six and the final chapter is clearly an addition." (Encyclopedia Britannica, ed.IX, vol.10, p.783ff)

There were also claims that the Gospel of John was a forged copy of an earlier pre-Christian text whose wording was changed to appear Christian. This claim was made by none other than the very highly venerated Bishop of Rome, Callistus I, who stated that this earlier text was sealed in an urn "...in a cavern under the Temple of Jerusalem, having been placed there in secret long anterior (previous) to the Christian era." (The Edict of Callistus, Victor Germain's trans., 1822)

It is no surprise then that some 8000 consultants named in 200 pages of the 1967 edition of The New Catholic Encyclopedia agreed regarding the Gospel of John that;

"some of its irregularity undoubtedly stems from the history of editing." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, p. 1087)



Ah yes of course, 'the children of darkness.' Would they be the people who disagree with your opinion? And regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls and its accuracy you really mus read:

http://www.thelowestroom.com/Documents/deadseadeception.pdf



Not vandalized? What a classic.

The Bible text Revelation 15:3 is a verse that clearly illustrates the ancient cultural war within Christianity between Gnosticism and Orthodoxy. The text tells us that seven angels held harps given to them by God. They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the Ages.” (New International Version 1984)

Some readers would find this text surprising, not just for the cosmic symbolism of seven angels celebrating God as King of Ages, but also because many translations do not contain this final word ‘Ages’ but replace “King of the Ages” with “King of the Nations” or “King of the Saints”. Indeed the current NIV has fallen into line with this alternate reading, changing its 1984 text and using “King of the Nations”, relegating “Ages” to a footnote which states “Some manuscripts ages”. But the extraordinary thing about this question is that ‘Ages’ is the original text, and it appears that ‘Nations’ and ‘Saints’ are later changes introduced by Church Fathers to reflect emerging orthodox dogma.

This small textual difference points to an immense political conflict within ancient Christian interpretation. Original Gnosticism saw God and Christ as revealed in the natural cosmos. By this view, the description of God as ‘king of the ages’ refers to the observed movement of the heavens measured in the slow precession of the equinox through the twelve signs of the zodiac over the course of the Great Year, forming a perpetual cycle of twelve Ages or Aeons. However, in the early church a usurping political orthodoxy suppressed the original natural vision that had linked God to the perceived structure of time, in favour of the supernatural Christian doctrine that separates spirit from nature. So, the dogmatists replaced the natural term ‘ages’, respecting the cosmic immensity and eternity of God, with the anthropocentric terms ‘nations’ or ‘saints’, emphasising their much more limited historical and political vision.

To justify this reading of Ages as the most likely original text, we can look to the discussion of this verse at a website promoting the inerrancy of the King James Version of the Bible. http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/saints-or-nations-or-ages-in-revelation-153 analyses the claims for the different readings. It notes that the Textus Receptus, the source for the King James Bible, shows Latin Church Father support for the reading of "King of Saints”. From this fundamentalist viewpoint "King of saints" and "King of the nations" are seen as “fitting titles for God in the context of Revelation 15:3”, with "King of the nations" found in CEV, ESV, HCSB, NASB, NIV 2011, NLT, TNIV.” The various translations can be compared at http://bible.cc/revelation/15-3.htm

Despite the common use of ‘saints’ and ‘nations’, the first very good reason why “Ages” has support is that it is the original text. As the supporters of the KJV acknowledge, “the problem, however, is that the oldest manuscripts have "King of the ages". The two earliest extant manuscripts of Revelation 15:3 are Papyrus 47 (250 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), both of which have "King of the Ages". The earliest manuscript for "King of the nations" is Codex Alexandrinus from 400 AD. This is an example where modern textual critics do not always follow the earliest manuscripts for any given passage if that early reading does not support their views. … King of the ages is a very ancient reading.”

As noted, ‘ages’ predates ‘nations’ by 150 years in the extant records, but does not support the views of ‘modern textual critics’.

The KJV inerrantists present the feeble argument that "ages" (αιωνων) and "saints" (αγιων) look very similar, and ages is a simple mistake in the earliest documents, despite the supposedly inspired status of the text. They add the letter gamma (γ) to aion to produce the KJV reading, removing a key Gnostic idea. These supporters of the KJV are explicit about their support for the altered text as a political move: “As for why scribes may have changed "King of the ages" to "King of the nations" … the meaning of "King of the Aeons" … may have given uncomfortable Gnostic undertones.”

What are these “uncomfortable Gnostic undertones”? Basically, it is that the Bible contains a theology grounded in accurate observation of nature, with the idea that events on earth are reflections of the observed cycles of the heavens. Contrary to the view of dogmatic supporters of KJV inerrancy, Gnostic ideas pervade the book of Revelations, and the Gospels. Suppression of this one mention of Ages does not remove the Gnostic cosmology from the canon. The idea of Ages promotes a natural cosmology, readily observable in ancient times, that explains the real framework of the Biblical understanding of time and space based on accurate long term observation of the precession of the equinox.

For example, the holy city described in Revelation 21 is totally Gnostic, with its twelve jewels representing the twelve Aeons of the Ages of the Zodiac, listed in reverse as per precession by old Babylonian tradition. The river of life in Rev 22 is the Milky Way galaxy, while the tree of life growing on both sides of the river, with its twelve fruits, one for each month, is the zodiac. The handing of ‘power, seat and authority’ from the dragon to the leopard-bear-lion in Rev 13 is an allegorical description of the precession of the North Celestial Pole over historical time. King of the Ages in Rev 15 fits perfectly with these Gnostic cosmic themes.

We see therefore that “Ages” was replaced by Latin scribes in ancient times to serve their secular theological agenda of promoting the miraculous and mysterious power of the church, favouring an alienated transcendental vision which required the church as the intermediary between community and God. The church was in conflict with Gnostics who promoted a natural theology, and saw discussion of aeons as a key marker for the debate over orthodoxy. Even though 1 Timothy had used the phrase King of the Ages, it sat uncomfortably with Orthodox views of canonical dogma.

This textual change raises the question of the extent to which such censorship was successful more broadly. How many ancient texts were originally far more natural and cosmic in intent like this one, only to be altered to make them acceptable to the supernatural doctrines of orthodoxy?

The fundamentalists say that King of the Ages does not fit the context. But consider the line “They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb.” A Gnostic reading of the myth of Moses and the ‘song of the Lamb’ can readily support the idea of God as King of the Ages.

There is support for this argument from Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, where verses 10:2-3 state that the Israelites “were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.” Paul's idea of the pre-existence of Christ as a ‘spiritual rock’ in the time of the Exodus opens the spiritual idea of a mythical eternal Christ as the content of the song of Moses. The description in Numbers 21 of the snake on the pole, cited in John 3:14 as the model for the cross and basis of eternal life, provides further support for the Mosaic Gnostic idea of the cross as a cosmic symbol. For a Gnostic cosmic reading, this idea of the snake can readily be linked to the vision of the centrality of the north celestial pole concealed in Rev 13, and the idea of the four corners of heaven as marking the points of the cross and the four living creatures in Ezekiel 1 and Rev 4:6. And the seven angels who sang the song of Moses and the Lamb make good sense as referring to the sun and moon and five visible planets.

Church father Clement of Alexandria helped to explain the use of such natural symbols in scripture, saying: "All who have treated of divine matters have always hid the principle of things and have delivered the truth enigmatically, by signs and symbols, allegories and metaphors." http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book5.html

The analysis therefore suggests that discussion of the song of Moses in Revelation is allegory for cosmic wisdom.

So too the ‘song of the Lamb’. Ancient astrology, well known to spiritual seers including the authors of Revelation, observed that the spring point, the position in the sky of the sun at the March equinox, moved out of its old position in the constellation Aries the Ram into the constellation of Pisces the Fishes at the time of Christ. Astronomical software shows that the precise date when the equinox crossed the first fish of Pisces was 21 AD, providing a marker for the New Age, the turning point at the beginning and end of time, at the purported time of the ministry of Christ. This date, and the decades around it, was a unique time when the constellations of the sky matched the seasons of the earth precisely, so that earth was in tune with the heavens, on earth as in heaven.

It is entirely fitting in Gnostic terms that this moment of cosmic attunement gave rise to the myth of the incarnation of the anointed saviour Jesus Christ. In terms of natural reason, the pre-existent logos described by Paul as appearing to Moses and the prophets indicated the time before the alignment of the seasons and the stars, while the moment of alignment indicates the descent of God from heaven to earth, mythologized as the incarnation of Christ.

The ‘song of the lamb’ described in Revelation can therefore be interpreted as both the beginning of each new year in the sign of Aries the Ram, and also the end of the previous age and Great Year in the Age of Aries. Jesus Christ as beginning and end, alpha and omega, is therefore a cosmic symbol who can be understood as the song of Moses and the lamb, pointing to the unity of father and son as king of the ages, within an entirely natural theology.

The Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the mid fourth century AD, is available at an excellent website: http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59&chapter=15&lid=en&side=r&verse=3&zoomSlider=0#59-14-10-10

As shown in the screenshot from this link below, and as I mentioned above, the old document states AIONON (αιωνων - Ages) at Revelation 15:3. The photo of the Codex Sinaiticus manuscript clearly shows AIONON (ages).

http://i25.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0608/e3/2e9b74ec987ec9edaab6fd25d0f4a2e3.gif

However, the translation uses AGIONON (saints - from αγιων), a completely different word, with a letter added. The interpolation of the G (gamma - γ) for the translation is blatant. This mid fourth century manuscript clearly says God is king of the ages, not nations or saints. It is as though I was reading a book which had the word 'star', and thought to myself, I would prefer the meaning if it said 'stair', and then tried to get all editions of the book changed to accord with my whim, because star supported the views of people I disagreed with.

This King of the Ages example shows the power of convention to ignore inconvenient evidence. The compilers of the website have ignored the clear text in front of them, and instead chosen to use the KJV mistranslation, an error which the fundamentalist bullies have now imposed on the New International Version of the Bible as well, which has now corrupted its correct 1984 translation of this verse. There is in fact an Orwellian dimension to this story [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#The_War ] - who controls the past controls the future - Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia, just as Orthodoxy has 'always' been at war with Gnosticism. The facts differ from the propaganda.

One can well imagine the attitude of the scribe who first changed Ages to Saints in the fourth century. With heresiology rampant, and the Gnostic doctrine of the Ages seen as a core theme of heresy, the word Ages was altered to Saints to make the text more congenial to orthodoxy. That is the nature of blind faith.

So much for Biblical inerrancy. The fundamentalist theologians obviously regard their own dogmatic opinions as inerrant, and have shown themselves willing and able to unscrupulously censor and manipulate the original source documents of the Bible to advance their baseless views.

Was the alteration of Rev 15:3 from the original term Ages to the alternatives Saints or Nations an error or a deliberate change?

The alteration of the original text King of the Ages to King of the Nations or King of the Saints at Revelation 15:3 presents a useful case study to help reconstruct the political debate in the early church about the purpose and intent of the gospel story.

Why did Orthodoxy reject Gnosticism? This is essentially a practical question, turning on the experience of the early church regarding the utility of different doctrines. Orthodox Historicism regarding Jesus centres on the idea of an interventionist God who cares personally about the world and the salvation of every individual. If God did miraculously intervene in history in the person of Jesus Christ, it presents a simple believable message to prove that our world is not really as it seems, but that a hidden force of goodness is working to transform the political situation towards an ethic of love and truth. The church is the representative of this hidden force for good, working against the evil pagans to transform the world, justified by the claim of historical intervention in Christ.

This Orthodox attitude clashes with the Gnostic idea of the evil demiurge who made the world, and with the Gnostic doctrine of a spiritual escape as the only path of salvation. Orthodoxy says we can explain God in real historical terms that are fairly easily comprehensible, whereas Gnosticism says that extensive scholarship and retreat from the world are needed for salvation. The contrast between the ethical ideals of transformation and escape reflects the difference between Christianity and Buddhism, which seems to have been a strong influence on Gnosticism.

As king of nations or saints, God relates directly to human history, as revealed in the story of the incarnate Christ, who is `One with the Father' in this kingly role. God's relation to saints and nations becomes a personal matter of care and concern. But as king of ages, God is purely transcendent and eternal. To relate to such a God requires an acceptance of sublime indifference on God's part towards our personal cares, and an eschatological sense that the gulf between humanity and God can only be bridged through a total cultural change, not to be expected through temporal works and timeframes. The king of ages provides no traction for the growth and power of the church in the secular world.

King of Nations or Saints supports the Augustinian theology of realized eschatology, the idea that the Kingdom of Heaven has begun in history with the work of Christ as its cornerstone. King of Ages presents a far more bleak picture for hopes of immediate redemption, setting atonement and reconciliation with the divine in a far more remote context.

Against this practical framework, we can begin to understand why an early Gnostic picture of the identity of Christ as spiritual myth did not serve the ongoing needs of the church. In constructing a building, the builder uses cranes and platforms that are removed when the building is finished. King of Ages worked for Orthodoxy like a construction crane, putting the components into place, but of no apparent use once they had the finished product. Keeping formwork and cranes on a building site is useless after they are needed. They are taken away, and the end users of the building, if they had the interest, would face a very difficult task to reverse engineer the construction process.

Like rubble on a building site, texts like the King of Ages and its alteration help us to reverse engineer the process of construction of the New Testament, from an original spiritual cosmic mythology to the historical fable of an interventionist God.

Current apologists for the historical Jesus, and in this case for the inerrancy of the KJV version of this verse, look rather like people who claim a building was miraculously constructed without cranes or formwork.



Wow you really have no clue have you?



Could that be because it was never meant to be read literally?



Logical to a fundamentalist maybe.



Sorry but I cannot find a facepalm picture good enough to do justice to your words.



Well if you say so then it must be. You are all wise after all.



You don't even know what the name Solomon means and how it further discredits your literalism. Here is a clue:

Sol - Latin for sun
Om - Sanskrit for the solar force
On - Egyptian for sun

Isn't it interesting that a book written originally in Aramaic, translated into Hebrew, translated into Greek, translated into German and the finally translated in English is still the literal word of God? Isn't it amusing that we even find some Latin in its wording. Remember Lucifer? What is the origin of the word?

You do know that words tend to change meaning when translated or modified? Want an example? Find an English one word translation for the Portuguese word 'Saudade'. Go on, I dare you.



Well that's your experience isn't it? Doesn't mean the rest of us have to share it or be called Satanists or 'children of darkness' because we don't share your opinion. The ego is a funny thing, especially when it pretends to be spiritual.



This is just too funny to deserve a serious reply. Total and utter misunderstanding of Freemasonry and its symbolism. Utter madness!

Excellent post, exu156!

rapunzel
08-06-2012, 05:50 PM
Here is your Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/mystical-sites-u-s-capitol/

Vatican City

http://www.cuttingedge.org/VaticanObelisk.jpg

http://obeliskseven.com/portals/0/Gallery/435/Vatican%20obelisk%20at%20night.jpg

The obelisk is a phallic symbol of course, opposite the dome of St. Peter's Basilica which represents the feminine.

The Obelisk was never intended to be a phallic symbol or 'Shaft of Baal' as some lamebrain called it.

cramhankie
08-06-2012, 11:22 PM
Righteous hey, Paul was a schitzophrenic sexist homophobe who only paid lip service to Jesus. He created his own version of Christ and proclaimed himself an apostle so he could seek the glory of Jesus for himself, he was an usurper. He based his version of Christ on pagan myth Roman/Greek/Egyptian/Zorastrian legend.

Schizophrenia...that is a discussion in and of itself, but it is nothing more than a term invented by the psychological establishment as an umbrella classification for a wide variety of behaviors many of which may or may not be classified as mental disorders depending on one's cultural or moral perspective, and a wide variety of behaviors that may or may not have a singular cause since nothing has been definitively proven, thus, any diagnosis of schizophrenia by a psychological professional is questionable, and any diagnosis of schizophrenia made by a random poster on a message board, especially when the term is thrown around in moral and religious debate, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Paul was sexist? Yes, in a sense he can be considered sexist, as he believed in gender roles (as all cultures have throughout history). He did not believe that women were inferior to men or that women should be oppressed.

Homophobic? Not by the literal meaning of the word, as there is no indication that he was scared of homosexuals, but he certainly believed as had been written in the Mosaic Law for thousands of years before him that homosexual behavior is an immoral sin not to be practiced by the children of God.

How can a true Apostle be possessed by a Daemon? Again 2 Cor12-7. You are obviously a Paulinist that is fine I once was one too. He speaks with false authority but he writes rather well. His theology is lacking but his philosophy and poetry are pretty good.

2 Corinthians 12:1-10 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. ” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Paul does not say here that he was possessed, merely oppressed, and there is a big difference. Paul was and is a possession of the Lord Jesus Christ, allowed by God to be harassed by a demon, just as God allowed Satan to destroy Job's entire life.

Paul explains clearly why God allowed this, and he speaks of the glory of external Divinity and directs glory away from himself, which is the opposite of the Satanic ego of the doctrine of self-deification.

Like you he loved to condemn even though that is not his or your position in the scheme of things. Only YHWH can condemn but when one follows the Greatest Commandment what is there to condemn. " Love YHWH with all of your heart, mind and soul; love others as you love yourself; love yourself for YHWH and others love you." I added in the measure for without it there is no balance to the scales. I am sure jesus would have thought of it as well if he were truly God.

YHWH is God the Judge, and he has expressed his judgment in his Word. He gave the Mosaic Law which was a guideline for the judges(gods), the elders of Israel to follow, a moral guidleine for them to determine what behaviors were proper and what behaviors should be condemned and punished.

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Jesus came as the Messiah and gave many commandments to his followers on how to live morally, the specific commandments can all be summarized as he said in verse 40.

My position as a follower of Jesus is not to eternally condemn people, I will not ever be casting anyone into hell, and under the New Covenant I am not commanded to enact any physical judgment for sin on anyone. My position as a follower of Jesus is to follow his commandments, and this was his final command:

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Teaching the nations to obey what Jesus commanded also means teaching them what he commanded against, which is condemning what he commanded against.

Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord God of Israel with all your heart, soul and mind, which leaves no room whatsoever for the worship of any other god, so inherent in that commandment is the condemnation of the worship of other gods, as is written in the Law:

Exodus 20:2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The children of darkness hate to hear a child of God following the command of Jesus and teaching what Jesus said is incorrect behavior, which is condemning that incorrect behavior, because:

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

If he knew as you say why did he ask where they were hiding and to show themselves?

Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

To bring attention to the fact that Adam was hiding. Before Adam sinned he never had a reason to hide anything from God. He hid because of his shame, not because he thought God couldn't find him, and God immediately brought attention to it. Adam answered God instead of trying to continue to hide, he had been foolish but he was not stupid. Adam was delaying the inevitable by hiding, and I am sure that most of us can remember a time when we did something wrong and knew that the consequences were imminent, but went to some other place while dreading it and trying to avoid it, certainly not wanting to face the authority figure who we knew was going to mete out judgment.

Yeah i am a child of darkness though I have a Splendrous Radiant Body of Light within, I do not hide it under the table or under the bed but place it for all to see and let it's light shine forth. Many have this light 100 % of the Human Race but sometimes I question if Christian Fundamentalists do. " Remember "Are ye not gods?" it means what it says we are divine made in the image of the gods. That is what Elohim means.

No, you do not have God's Light, you are an unrepentant sinner who is in league with Satan, who makes excuses for evil because you are evil, you call yourself radiant light while you say that there is no pure light, everything is shades of gray, you are utterly illogical because you are lost and running from God, exactly the same as Adam and Eve who were utterly illogical when they hid from God in the Garden. You are a not even close to being a god, Baal is a god, Dagon is a god, but you are just a lowly soul in the material realm, you are a cockroach compared to the angels and demons, and you are entirely insignificant in power compared to the infinite Creator, the one true God, the one and only Being deserving of worship.

Yes and only you shall have salvation everyone else must die. The world doesn't need to be saved it has been around for 4 Billion years and will continue on with or without us. Mankind on the otherhand just needs to be taught compassion especially Christian fundamentalists. Not all Christians are bad I am a Christian but I will burn I know even though I have known God and Jesus since I was a Toddler.

Not only I will receive salvation, but any who accept that free gift from the Lord Jesus Christ. You do not know Jesus, you know Satan your "liberator".

I am showing you compassion right now by condemning the great evil that has consumed you, the Satanic ego, and preaching again to you the Truth that you already have heard but have rejected. Jesus loves you and wants you to repent and come to him. I pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you.

cramhankie
08-06-2012, 11:50 PM
Jews are not Christians yet you want to be Israeli and you insult them with everything you say how quaint. Hatred of the Jews comes from Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists. Literalists who read and don't practice exegesis, who take the Bible as the Holy Word of God written by God hinself through the Holy Spirit.

I do not want to be Israeli, and I do not hate the Jews. I do hate Talmudic Judaism and Kabbalah, neither of which are the true faith of Abraham, and so in truth are not true Judaism.

The true Judaism is Christianity.

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

Revelation 2:9 I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

I, a fundamentalist Christian, am a true Jew in God's eyes, while the Zionist thieves and butchers are of the synagogue of Satan along with you, you who sports their Kabbalist symbol for an avatar.

I never said there is no morality we have a conscience we don't need a Book written by Sheep Herders as Ferrymantothedead says. It is a good book but no scripture is any better or any worse than another. You and I have to disagree on what we think God's love really means. Murder is wrong for example but if someone killed your child and you killed them is that wrong? This is why the Law has what are called crimes of passion. Pre meditated murder is wrong but it is done by Governments too. Christians have killed more people in the name of God than any other religion. It makes many people question God if God is responsible.

You said everything is highly subjective, there is no black and white only shades of gray, and now you say no scripture is any worse or better than any other...in the same sentence that you claim a conscience that would tell you right from wrong. It's illogical, contradictory nonsense.

If everything is shades of gray then murder is not wrong. I believe there is a difference between murder and killing, and you here have expressed your view about that difference, you began to differentiate, to paint one situation as black and another as white. If everything is subjective, if everything is gray, no killing can ever be definitively judged to be wrong or right.

Taking into account the thousands of years of human civilization before Christ, and the innumerable wars fought by pagans in the name of or at a bare minimum praying for support from their pagan gods, taking slaves and often offering human sacrifices of their enemies, and then taking into account the horrific bloody history of Islamic empires since the 600s, then I think it is quite silly to say that Christians have killed more people in the name of God than any other religion.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter, Jesus did not command violence, he commanded no political theocracy in his name, he did not command that his moral teachings be enforced on believers or unbelievers through any kind of violence, and he certainly did not command forced conversions through violence.

cramhankie
08-06-2012, 11:55 PM
The Obelisk was never intended to be a phallic symbol or 'Shaft of Baal' as some lamebrain called it.

Argue that with valmar.

The Obelisk and the Dome are symbols of the male and female. Is that so bad now? The circle is a representation of female energy and a straight line the male energy.

Edit:

http://thelemapedia.org/index.php/IAO

It is important to note that Crowley (1997) believed that the formula of IAO had been replaced by that of Horus, who gave us his two formulae, Thelema and Abrahadabra.

IAO is the formula of magick. It is the way things reproduce and recreate themselves through extension and specialization. (The Book of Wisdom and Folly, 1988) “I” represents the monad or the phallus. Its actions do not produce change within, but only “out of itself.” “O” represents the yoni or the female, which changes through addition, subtraction or multiplication. It represents matter that is capable of taking on form. The union of the “I” and the “O” would create the triad, or the world formed by the two creative principals out of matter. “A” would then represent the conjunction between these two principles.

I guess the symbolism of the obelisk "I" and the dome "O" was just coincidental?

cramhankie
09-06-2012, 12:01 AM
Wow...just wow!

Fundie followers of the desert religions need to get out their bibles, skake out the sand and read the little line that goes ''...judge not, lest ye be judged''.

Second time in 2 pages.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye" -- Matthew 7:1-5

That means "don't be a hypocrite", not "don't ever judge".

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" -- John 7:24

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2 Timothy 2:15

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" -- Ephesians 5:11

It takes righteous judgment to rightly divide the word of truth and determine what is evil to expose it.

http://www.oldpaths.com/archive/davison/roy/allen/1940/judge.html

"Judge not, that you be not judged" is often the wailing cry of false teachers and hardened sinners who misapply the verse to ward off censure for their evil deeds. Do not be intimidated by such people, for Jesus has commanded us to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24).

passerbye999
09-06-2012, 12:32 AM
cramhankie;1060871276]Schizophrenia...that is a discussion in and of itself, but it is nothing more than a term invented by the psychological establishment as an umbrella classification for a wide variety of behaviors many of which may or may not be classified as mental disorders depending on one's cultural or moral perspective, and a wide variety of behaviors that may or may not have a singular cause since nothing has been definitively proven, thus, any diagnosis of schizophrenia by a psychological professional is questionable, and any diagnosis of schizophrenia made by a random poster on a message board, especially when the term is thrown around in moral and religious debate, should be taken with a grain of salt.

I am Bipolar1 with Schitzo-Affective Disorder I think I know and am qualified to tell when I see, hear or read if a Psychotic Episode is a Psychotic Episode. Psychiatrists really do know their profession. The only person that doesn't believe they had a psychotic episode is someone mentally ill in denial. Paul's whole so called miraculous conversion is simply a psychotic eoisode there is contradictory accounts in Acts as to whether observers heard the voice as well or not. Later on in Acts some future editor redacted the account to make it sound like a genuine miracle.


Paul was sexist? Yes, in a sense he can be considered sexist, as he believed in gender roles (as all cultures have throughout history). He did not believe that women were inferior to men or that women should be oppressed.

Yes he is sexest even outside of church he demands women heed their station and have their husbands answer any questions they may have regarding anything that happens in church or anywhere else. As if women are inferior and can't think for themselves. It is because of him women still fing it hard to become pastors or clergy.

Homophobic? Not by the literal meaning of the word, as there is no indication that he was scared of homosexuals, but he certainly believed as had been written in the Mosaic Law for thousands of years before him that homosexual behavior is an immoral sin not to be practiced by the children of God.

So homosexuals because of him mainly are oppressed by the church and it's followers where here in Canada the Government will marry them but the church won't. It is okay though that men of the cloth can sexually abuse young boys and get away with it though. That is a proven fact. Because Paul was celibate he wished everyone would be celibate and said someone was weak if they didn't stay celibate. Paul was also a Religious Bigot. I suppose discrimination is okay though because only Paulinists know the truth.


Paul does not say here that he was possessed, merely oppressed, and there is a big difference. Paul was and is a possession of the Lord Jesus Christ, allowed by God to be harassed by a demon, just as God allowed Satan to destroy Job's entire life.

Paul explains clearly why God allowed this, and he speaks of the glory of external Divinity and directs glory away from himself, which is the opposite of the Satanic ego of the doctrine of self-deification.

Again Paul's delusion that he can speak to God. He obviously heard voices that is Schitzo-affective Disorder. That was probably the thorn he spoke of. His mental illness. I have the Holy Spirit have had it my entire life since I was a boy and God never oppressed me with Demons only this illness though it is a gift as well. It is what has made me who I am.


YHWH is God the Judge, and he has expressed his judgment in his Word. He gave the Mosaic Law which was a guideline for the judges(gods), the elders of Israel to follow, a moral guidleine for them to determine what behaviors were proper and what behaviors should be condemned and punished.

Jesus came as the Messiah and gave many commandments to his followers on how to live morally, the specific commandments can all be summarized as he said in verse 40.

My position as a follower of Jesus is not to eternally condemn people, I will not ever be casting anyone into hell, and under the New Covenant I am not commanded to enact any physical judgment for sin on anyone. My position as a follower of Jesus is to follow his commandments, and this was his final command:

Teaching the nations to obey what Jesus commanded also means teaching them what he commanded against, which is condemning what he commanded against.

Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord God of Israel with all your heart, soul and mind, which leaves no room whatsoever for the worship of any other god, so inherent in that commandment is the condemnation of the worship of other gods, as is written in the Law:

I live by the Greatest Commandment and even mentioned it in our debate along with the measure to love yourself. I have never worshipped anything but God not even Jesus. For it doesn't matter what the Bible says in the gospels The son is not the Father. The son is my Teacher but the Father is my God, the Mother is the Holy Spirit. She supplies the words for my prayer. I only recite the Lords Prayer and the Priestly Blessing. I don't pray to or worship the Mother either. Only the Father. YHWH ELohim " I am the one and only true God". God tests God does not Judge. We either pass or fail the tests. Job was tested not Judged.


The children of darkness hate to hear a child of God following the command of Jesus and teaching what Jesus said is incorrect behavior, which is condemning that incorrect behavior, because:

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

Most Children of God think they are following Jesus. The ones truly following Jesus are street people they have given up all identity and home to follow their God. Most though are mentally ill. I through away my wallet and keys twice to truly follow Jesus. When I came down I got them back. lol.
You have to live on the streets at leastr once for at least a couple of months to truly follow christ and know what it's really like. I walked in the ways of the Lord twice.


Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

To bring attention to the fact that Adam was hiding. Before Adam sinned he never had a reason to hide anything from God. He hid because of his shame, not because he thought God couldn't find him, and God immediately brought attention to it. Adam answered God instead of trying to continue to hide, he had been foolish but he was not stupid. Adam was delaying the inevitable by hiding, and I am sure that most of us can remember a time when we did something wrong and knew that the consequences were imminent, but went to some other place while dreading it and trying to avoid it, certainly not wanting to face the authority figure who we knew was going to mete out judgment.

You have to read the Zohar and study the Kabballah to really understand what the OT is about and understand the stories. It helps with meaning and symbolism. The OT is full of allegory. Nothing should be taken literally that is the wrong way to read it. The Jews know this only the Christians don't exept for Esoteric or gnostic Christians. For they read the Zohar, study the Kabballah and read the Nag Hammadi find as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls.


No, you do not have God's Light, you are an unrepentant sinner who is in league with Satan, who makes excuses for evil because you are evil, you call yourself radiant light while you say that there is no pure light, everything is shades of gray, you are utterly illogical because you are lost and running from God, exactly the same as Adam and Eve who were utterly illogical when they hid from God in the Garden. You are a not even close to being a god, Baal is a god, Dagon is a god, but you are just a lowly soul in the material realm, you are a cockroach compared to the angels and demons, and you are entirely insignificant in power compared to the infinite Creator, the one true God, the one and only Being deserving of worship.

Spiritually you are like a little child. You do not understand what I mean. We are made in the image of the gods (Elohim) we have consciousness, a soul and spirit. Our spirit is a Radiant light all human beings we are set above the Angels. There are methods of training the Spirit I am an adept at Internal Alchemy (25 yrs Teaching and training). I have had spiritual warfare with Satan and his daemons and did all right for myself. Never won and never lost. God stayed nuetral like He usually does. You are a child who knows nothing on the subject of spirituality and in your ignorance you still try to preach to others how they should be. i'll tell you what you keep praying to Jesus ans I'll keep practicing Alchemy and we'll see who gets farther spiritually in the end.


Not only I will receive salvation, but any who accept that free gift from the Lord Jesus Christ. You do not know Jesus, you know Satan your "liberator".

This is a huge assumption and you shouldn't assume to much you'll just make an ass out of yourself.


I am showing you compassion right now by condemning the great evil that has consumed you, the Satanic ego, and preaching again to you the Truth that you already have heard but have rejected. Jesus loves you and wants you to repent and come to him. I pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you.

No you are just talking shit in ignorance. Your prayers won't help me my soul is fine you should worry about your own. Again I have knnown Jesus my entire life you sound like a newbee.

cramhankie
09-06-2012, 01:14 AM
i'll tell you what you keep praying to Jesus ans I'll keep practicing Alchemy and we'll see who gets farther spiritually in the end.

So shall it be.

cramhankie
09-06-2012, 08:30 PM
Utterly bizarre to say the least. I love it how you fundamentalists pick and choose what suits and reject what doesn't. Must be a wonderful way to live.

We all pick what suits and reject what doesn't. You do not like the fundamental doctrine of the Bible so you choose what suits you, which is Crowley and the Zohar.

Many of the scriptural text that didn’t get voted into the Bible along with the scriptural texts that were removed from the Bible during a canonization can be found in the Apocrypha. The name comes from the Greek word meaning “those having been hidden away.” Many books have been lost completely but are mentioned in the Bible:

Book of Jasher Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18
Book of the Acts of Solomon 1 Kings 11:41
Book of Samuel the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Gad the Seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Nathan the Prophet 1 Chronicles 29:29, 2 Chronicles 9:29
Prophecy of Ahijah 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Visions of Iddo the Seer 2 Chronicles 9:29, 2 Chronicles 12:15, 2 Chronicles 13:22
Book of Shemaiah 2 Chronicles 12:15
Book of Jehu 2 Chronicles 35:25
Sayings of the Seers 2 Chronicles 33:19
Lament for Josiah 2 Chronicles 35:25

Was it Divine Insight which determined that these should have been lost? Can an incomplete manuscript be perfect?

Each book in the modern canon is a complete manuscript, and there is nothing wrong with reading apocryphal books to gain added perspective. The Ethiopian canon, preserved separately from Rome through the millenia, contains 81 books.

A separate thread could be devoted to discussing each and every one of these manuscripts, discussing why each was removed, but the books have been chosen according to the doctrine within, just as you Exu choose the books that you believe contain wisdom based on the doctrine within.

If a manuscript contained any hint of doctrines contrary to what came before, such as the doctrine of self-deification, or the doctrine of the hexagram, that manuscript was not considered to be inspired by God, because it contradicted what came before in the ancient Jewish Scriptures.

The Tanakh builds upon the Torah and does not contradict it, the 4 Gospels build upon the Torah and Tanakh and do not contradict them, and the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles build upon all that precedes and do not contradict.

I believe there are books in the Ethiopian canon not contained in the standard Protestant 66 book canon that are good to read, especially 1 Enoch.

I believe that the 66 books of the standard Protestant canon are all manuscripts that were written by divinely inspired men, and that they contain a harmonious doctrine from the oldest to the most recently written, and that no apocryphal book is necessary to be read to understand the righteous Truth of God.

The first person to mention the four Gospels was Irenaeus whom also believed that Jesus was 50 when he died. Why 4 Gospels, Irenaeus tells us;

"It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are, since there are four directions of the world in which we are, and four principal winds...the four living creatures [of Revelation 4.9] symbolize the four Gospels...and there were four principal covenants made with humanity, through Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Christ"

Oops do I smell a little symbolism going on here?

It seems that you are under the impression that I reject all symbolism as evil, when that is not the case. Irenaeus was a true believer, that I have no doubt about, and what he said there might well be the truth, the reason that God saw fit that there be four inspired accounts of the life of Jesus.

The books of the bible were never meant to be taken as literal documents, the events which they describe were never meant to be taken as literal history. The Zohar tells us regarding the books of Moses for example;

"The narratives of the doctrine are its cloak. The simple look only at the garment - that is upon the narrative of the doctrine; more they know not. The instructed however, see not only the cloak, but what the cloak covers."

This I already posted, and you give a FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE when you make the statement, "The books of the bible were never meant to be taken as literal documents".

You have asked me who am I to say what is truth, and so who are you? On what authority do you claim that the books of the Bible were never meant to be taken literally? I claim the authority of God for my beliefs, I have faith that the literal doctrine of the Bible is the Word of God, and you likewise demonstrate your faith in a fundamental doctrine that is diametrically opposed to mine.

Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (1135-1204) wrote concerning the Old Testament;

"Every time that you find in our books a tale, the reality of which seems impossible, a story that is repugnant to both reason and common sense, then be sure that the tale contains a profound allegory veiling deeply mysterious truth...and...the greater the absurdity of the letter, the deeper the wisdom of spirit."

The concealed message that the Bible holds underscores the mystery teachings of all secret societies. One can find hints to this mysterious secret throughout the bible but also in other traditions as well,

I already exposed the "mysterious secret" of the secret societies, of Mystery Babylon. The Secret Doctrine is that evil is necessary and Satan is the liberating god who helps everyone reach their own inner divinity.

You share the same basic beliefs as the evil elites who are preparing the world for the Antichrist NWO.

You can take that doctrine and shove it, I want nothing to do with evil, I look forward to the final destruction of evil by God who is not me, and I am very happy being his servant forever.

You have to read the Zohar and study the Kabballah to really understand what the OT is about and understand the stories. It helps with meaning and symbolism. The OT is full of allegory. Nothing should be taken literally that is the wrong way to read it. The Jews know this only the Christians don't exept for Esoteric or gnostic Christians. For they read the Zohar, study the Kabballah and read the Nag Hammadi find as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The literalist Christian holds to faith in the fundamental doctrine of human frailty and external Divinity, diametrically opposed to the self-deification Satanism of the Kabbalist "Jew" or the Gnostic "Christian". The Kabbalists and Gnostics share the same basic doctrine as any Hindu, Buddhist, or of course, self-proclaimed Satanist.

Mohammad told his followers;

"I received two kinds of knowledge, one of these I taught...but if I had taught them the other it would have broken their throats."

I did some searching and can find no original source for this quote. It is possible he did say something like this since he was a false prophet who was in contact with demons, but he was a warlord dictator running a strict fundamentalist cult who derived his power from the perception that he was preaching the Absolute Truth from God, and so he would never have said it publicly.

There's a 99.9% chance that the quote is fiction from Sufis.

And Gautama Buddha as well;

"O disciples, the things which I have discovered and have not told you are more numerous than those which I have told you."

Didn't bother to research it, but I'm not doubting that one.

Ah yes ' the canonical Biblical account of John which predates the Gospel of Judas' and yet Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria (c. 264) recorded that the Gospel of John was 'the forgery of an Egyptian Jew named Cerinthus'. This was also confirmed by Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea (Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius. A full account can be found in The New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 1080).

The Gospel of John has always been problematical. The learned church authorities that contributed to the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica admitted;

"It (John) has been severely edited, as its closing words make clear; and there is evidence of heavy tempering in the earliest manuscripts, obviously glossed and so forth, as well a sheer muddle. Thus Chapter Five should follow Chapter Six and the final chapter is clearly an addition." (Encyclopedia Britannica, ed.IX, vol.10, p.783ff)

There were also claims that the Gospel of John was a forged copy of an earlier pre-Christian text whose wording was changed to appear Christian. This claim was made by none other than the very highly venerated Bishop of Rome, Callistus I, who stated that this earlier text was sealed in an urn "...in a cavern under the Temple of Jerusalem, having been placed there in secret long anterior (previous) to the Christian era." (The Edict of Callistus, Victor Germain's trans., 1822)

It is no surprise then that some 8000 consultants named in 200 pages of the 1967 edition of The New Catholic Encyclopedia agreed regarding the Gospel of John that;

"some of its irregularity undoubtedly stems from the history of editing." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, p. 1087)

Having done a fair amount of research into the various views of the early Church Fathers, and certainly into the battle with the Gnostics, a battle that is now being waged again in this thread, I think it's telling that the very anti-Gnostic Gospel of John, along with Revelation, were both accepted by Irenaeus in the second century, the same Irenaeus who wrote against the Gnostic Gospel of Judas, but in order to attack the legitimacy of the Gospel of John you must go to voices heard from the third century.

I am a big fan of Irenaeus.

Ah yes of course, 'the children of darkness.' Would they be the people who disagree with your opinion? And regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls and its accuracy you really mus read:

http://www.thelowestroom.com/Documents/deadseadeception.pdf

The children of darkness are all those who reject the literal doctrine of the Old and New Testaments, those who reject the free gift of salvation through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

In this thread I am dealing with people who are beyond simple ignorance, people who have actively decided to have faith in the doctrine of self-divinity and the doctrine of the hexagram which are diametrically opposed to the literal doctrine of the Bible.

My opinion is that the literal doctrine of the Bible is true, that I am in the Light of God, I am a child of light. Those who disagree with my opinion that the Biblical doctrine is true are thus by logical necessity children of darkness in my opinion, and that's what the Bible says they are.

Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Not vandalized? What a classic.

Is your name Robert Tulip? If not I hope you might give credit where credit is due Exu.

That was a lot to derive from "King of Ages" versus "King of Saints". Using the logic contained in that copy pasta, you would think that if the orthodox church were having such a big problem with Revelation as being Gnostic, that instead of just changing one word they would have chopped out anything that could be construed as astrological symbolism.

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Revelation contains the hated doctrine of human frailty and external Divinity, and the violent judgement to come on the children of darkness.

You can say that the number 12 in the New Jerusalem is not representing the 12 tribes of Israel, or the 12 apostles, but is representing the Zodiac instead, but you still haven't addressed the fact that Revelation preaches the same God of judgement of the Old Testament and says that pagan magicians are going to burn.

Nothing Gnostic about it, they hated YHWH the Judge then, and they hate him now.

This is utter nonsense. death in no way is justified or moral even with God.

Horrid stuff! I really don't know how anyone who worships a monster could have his opinion be taken seriously by anyone.


You don't even know what the name Solomon means and how it further discredits your literalism. Here is a clue:

Sol - Latin for sun
Om - Sanskrit for the solar force
On - Egyptian for sun

Linguistic scholars laugh at you. The same Solomon was recorded in the Tanakh centuries before any Hebrew/Israelite/Jew had any contact with the Romans, and Sanskrit is an Indo-European language that was being spoken by racist Aryan priests thousands of miles to the East and had little to no influence on the Semitic languages of Mesopotamia. Solomon is derived from the same root as "shalom", it means "peace".

Isn't it interesting that a book written originally in Aramaic, translated into Hebrew, translated into Greek, translated into German and the finally translated in English is still the literal word of God? Isn't it amusing that we even find some Latin in its wording. Remember Lucifer? What is the origin of the word?

If there is an all-powerful External Divinity, and if he loves me, then he is surely capable of preserving the fundamental doctrine of Truth that he wants to express to me through many translations.

And he has. "Ages" versus "Nations" doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and here we are in the Year of Our Lord 2012 discussing the controversy, which means that no one is deceived about it who wants the Truth.

I go with "Ages". I say that word does not make Revelation a Gnostic work.

You do know that words tend to change meaning when translated or modified? Want an example? Find an English one word translation for the Portuguese word 'Saudade'. Go on, I dare you.

The fundamental doctrine of the Bible is not changed through translation.

"Human frailty and External Divinity" is not changed.

"God is ONE" is not changed.

"Man is fallen and needs atonement for sin" is not changed.

These fundamental doctrines are what the children of darkness despise.

Well that's your experience isn't it? Doesn't mean the rest of us have to share it or be called Satanists or 'children of darkness' because we don't share your opinion. The ego is a funny thing, especially when it pretends to be spiritual.

Exu, no one likes a whiner.

You say I worship a monster and you call my spirituality disgusting because my opinion is different than yours, so there's no need to whine when I state the literal Biblical doctrine that you are a child of darkness on your way to hell.

If you tell me you believe that the world is flat, I will tell you that you are wrong, your mind is clouded by falsehood, your mind is in the dark concerning the shape of the earth.

If you do not share my correct opinion that the world is round, and you oppose my opinion, then you have become my adversary(satan) in that argument.

You and the other pagans of the doctrine of the hexagram here are adversarial to the literal Biblical doctrine that I preach, and I am adversarial to your doctrine.

You are a satan to me, a child of darkness from my perspective.

I am a satan to you, a child of darkness from your perspective.

Only one of us can be correct. I believe the consequences of that choice of belief are eternal.

Take all religious texts out of the argument, and our choice of belief in external vs internal divinity remains, the fundamental philosophical argument remains.

The Freemasons are somewhat obsessed with Solomon, but that has much less to do with Solomon himself and much more to do with the Temple to YHWH that he built, the 3rd construction of which the Kabbalist Freemasons do actively desire and work to attain.

The free builders, free from the constraints of YHWH's morality, free to pursue humanist self-deification, to act as gods who determine their own morality, or lack of it, since morality is just a delusion, morality is just the shackles put on them by the cursed tyrant of the Garden.

This is just too funny to deserve a serious reply. Total and utter misunderstanding of Freemasonry and its symbolism. Utter madness!

The Temple Mount is located close to the 'center' of the Old World. Medieval cartographers always put Jerusalem ad the center of maps. Now speaking of fringe, apparently I've read that the real reason they want this location is to destroy the Dome of the Rock and build Solomon's Temple. Here comes the fringe part.. to summon the anti-Christ.

Now I try to keep my mind grounded to reality, but reality is a pretty strange place. And even though I'm not religious, it honestly would not surprise me if they wanted to do some sort of ritual for that purpose, especially considering the YHWH killing story.

Believenothing doesn't seem to think my view is madness.

sandwarrior
10-06-2012, 06:36 PM
The Temple Mount is located close to the 'center' of the Old World. Medieval cartographers always put Jerusalem ad the center of maps. Now speaking of fringe, apparently I've read that the real reason they want this location is to destroy the Dome of the Rock and build Solomon's Temple. Here comes the fringe part.. to summon the anti-Christ.
Now I try to keep my mind grounded to reality, but reality is a pretty strange place. And even though I'm not religious, it honestly would not surprise me if they wanted to do some sort of ritual for that purpose, especially considering the YHWH killing story.



I dont think it is fringe at all, I think it is precisely what is happening.

I started a thread about it the other day.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212377



p.s. This a great thread, some fantastic contributions TY:)

rapunzel
10-06-2012, 08:29 PM
Argue that with valmar.

Edit:

http://thelemapedia.org/index.php/IAO



I guess the symbolism of the obelisk "I" and the dome "O" was just coincidental?

People can look at the symbol of the obelisk and the dome and see it as symbolic of the male and female if they wish; it does make sense but I am just saying that the Egyptians didn't intend the Obelisk to be a phallic symbol. It is a symbol of the sun and dedicated to Ra.

loveisthelaw
10-06-2012, 11:06 PM
this thread started good but quickly descended into theoretical wishful thinking. What a shame, but thank you OP :)

cramhankie
10-06-2012, 11:56 PM
this thread started good but quickly descended into theoretical wishful thinking. What a shame, but thank you OP :)

Translation: "I hate the Truth."

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9243/squareandcompasshexagra.jpg

http://www.captiveminds.org/amss/freekab.htm

"The true philosophy, known and practiced by Solomon, is the basis on which Masonry is founded." -- Albert Pike, Freemason of the 33rd and last Degree, "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry", 1871, L.H. Jenkins Inc., p. 785.

"According to Talmudic legends, Solomon understood the mysteries of the Qabbalah. He was also a necromancer, being able to summon demons." -- Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Freemason, "The Secret Teachings of All Ages", p. 566.

"Freemasonry is founded upon the activities of this secret society of Central European adepts, whom the studious Mason will find to be the definite 'link' between the modern Craft and the Ancient Wisdom. The outer body of Masonic philosophy was merely the veil of this Qabbalistic order whose members were the custodians of the true Arcanum." -- 33rd Degree Freemason Manly Palmer Hall, "Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins

"The basis of the Western occultism of medieval is the Kabbalah of the medieval Hebrew Rabbis." William Wynn Westcott, a Freemason, "The Rosicrucians: Past and Present, At Home and Abroad, an Address to the Soc. Rosic. In Anglia

"That great Kabbilistical association known in Europe under the name of Masonry appeared suddenly in the world when the revolt against the Church had just succeeded in dismembering Christian unity." -- Eliphas Levi, Freemason, black magician and Cabalist, author of "Transcendental Magic", "Mysteries of the Qabalah", and "The History of Magic", from whence this quote was derived, page 283, here notes that Freemasonry is a Cabalist institution and suggests that it became public in consequence of the wreckage of Christian unity that followed in the wake of the Reformation, which it likely had no small part in effecting in this author's opinion.

"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kaballah." -- Freemason Albert Pike, 33rd Degree, as quoted in Ankerberg and Weldon's excellent book, "Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge," page 217

"The Kabalah is indeed of the essence of Freemasonry." -- co-Mason Helena P. Blavatsky, co-founder of the Theosophical Society, as quoted from secondary source "Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge" by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 236

The occult elites created the Zionist state for the purpose of building the Third Temple, and for the purpose of gathering the true seed of Israel back into Israel to rule the land after God expelled them because they broke his covenant, Zionism being a rebellion against God.

The plan is this:

1. Bring on a conflict that will result in the Temple of Solomon being rebuilt in Israel

2. Bring on World War 3 through Zionist conflict with Muslim nations.

(1 and 2 could happen in 2 separate conflicts or all part of one conflict)

3. After the dust settles and a huge chunk of the world population is dead and the survivors demoralized and looking for Order after the Chaos...

Ordo ab Chao, motto of the 33rd degree Freemason

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4245/doubleheadedeagle.gif

then the blame for the conflict will be placed on the pesky fundamentalist Abrahamic religions whose conflict caused all the suffering, even though in truth it had all been directed by the occult elites using the deluded common Jews, Muslims and Christians as pawns. People everywhere will be induced first by carrot, and then by stick to accept the New Age One World Religion, most will fervently embrace it, those who resist will be "cleansed".

Freemasonry and The New Age Religion

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry/freemasonry-and-the-new-age-religion

The New World Order must come as the Phoenix rising from the ashes of war and destruction, so says influential New Age occultist Alice Bailey, disciple of Theosophy founder Helena Blavatsky, who founded the Lucifer Publishing Company, who wrote in her book The Externalization of the Hierarchy which she said was channeled by spiritual "ascended masters":

"There are adequate resources for the sustenance of human life, and these science can increase and develop ... Man is the controller of it all, and they belong to everyone and are the property of no one group, nation or race. It is solely due to man's selfishness that ... thousands are starving whilst food is rotting or destroyed; it is solely due to the grasping schemes and the financial injustices of man's making that the resources of the planet are not universally available under some wise system of distribution … Today we are watching the death of civilisation ... Such a change is rapidly coming and is regarded by some as death -- terrible and to be avoided if possible. It is indeed death, but it is benevolent and needed ... For the progress of the soul of the individual and the soul of humanity, death is inevitable, good, and necessary … This global catastrophe, the Guides claim, will cleanse the earth of pollution and evil people and will usher in the long-awaited New Age of a thousand years of peace …. What lies in wait for the future ... is a global catastrophe that Ruth's [Montgomery] Guides foresee as more massive than anything this planet has undergone in many thousands of years. The long-awaited shift of the earth on its axis cannot be avoided, they stress, since natural forces that have brought about imbalance s will trigger this compensating movement in order to return it to stability."

http://overlordsofchaos.com/html/1930-34.html

A Scientific Analysis of the Writings of Alice A. Bailey and their Applications.

Robert A. Herrmann Ph. D.

http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm

Lucis Trust, Alice Bailey, World Goodwill and the False Light of the World

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Lucis_Trust.htm

Alice Bailey & Master Djwhal Khul: A Satanic Communion

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Alice_Bailey.htm

Aleister Crowley, founder of Thelema and the OTO, said this:

http://raumfahrer.wordpress.com/manson/crowley-on-sacrifice/

It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of {94** the ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal, and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly.

The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony — thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such a case a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin — the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim. {95** For evocations it would be more convenient to place the blood of the victim in the Triangle — the idea being that the spirit might obtain from the blood this subtle but physical substance which was the quintessence of its life in such a manner as to enable it to take on a visible and tangible shape.

Those magicians who object to the use of blood have endeavored to replace it with incense. For such a purpose the incense of Abramelin may be burnt in large quantities. Dittany of Crete is also a valuable medium. Both these incenses are very catholic in their nature, and suitable for almost any materialization. But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best. The truly great Magician will be able to use his own blood, or possibly that of a disciple, and that without sacrificing the physical life irrevocably. An example of this sacrifice is given in Chapter 44 of Liber 333. This Mass may be recommended generally for daily practice.

One last word on this subject. There is a Magical operation of maximum importance: the Initiation of a New Aeon. When it becomes necessary to utter a Word, the whole Planet must be bathed in blood. Before man is ready to accept the Law of Thelema, the Great War must be fought. This Bloody Sacrifice is the critical point of the World-{96**Ceremony of the Proclamation of Horus, the Crowned and conquering Child, as Lord of the Aeon.

This whole matter is prophesied in the Book of the Law itself; let the student take note, and enter the ranks of the Host of the Sun.

4. After the Crowned and conquering Child, the Lord of the Aeon (known to Christians as the long prophesied Antichrist) shows up and unites the world under one government, bringing peace and preaching a pagan New Age one world religion, there is still going to be a nation called Israel with a Temple of YHWH that is semi-autonomous.

You can read lots of different Christian eschatology, and read Revelation yourself, but however it exactly works out chronologically

5. Antichrist makes and breaks a treaty with Israel, Israel rebels and Antichrist attempts to wipe out every last Hebrew descendant, Antichrist goes to the rebuilt Temple of Solomon which is the Temple of YHWH to declare himself superior to YHWH, YHWH has had enough from Satan and rains down judgment, a remnant of the Jews in Israel repent, Jesus comes back and the dead in Christ are resurrected, Jesus reigns from Jerusalem as the real Lord of the Aeon.

passerbye999
11-06-2012, 04:10 AM
It's funny 6 million or more Jews killed in WWII and the Allies had to save them, not Jesus or God but common soldiers.

sandwarrior
11-06-2012, 05:18 AM
It's funny 6 million or more Jews killed in WWII and the Allies had to save them, not Jesus or God but common soldiers.

How can Allies save 6 million killed Jews? (sorry just being facetious)

Although, IMO the Holocaust was just part of the big plan. Israel could never have been created unless something catastrophic happened to the Jews. That Catstrophic thing was the holocaust.

Was it engineered for this to happen?? I think it was.

Who was it engineered by???

Follow the trail to who prospers.

believenothing
11-06-2012, 07:10 AM
I dont think it is fringe at all, I think it is precisely what is happening.

I started a thread about it the other day.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212377



p.s. This a great thread, some fantastic contributions TY:)

Because the whole Jerusalem thing is so religiously sensitive, people don't even realize what it even represents beyond the superficial bullshit story.

This is a fact: Jerusalem is a legend and a myth. There is no such thing as Jerusalem. Period. Jerusalem the Old City in Occupied Palestine IS NOT AND WAS NEVER Jerusalem. It was a ROMAN city called Aelia Capitolina.

When Aelia Capitolina was built some time in the first century AD, biblical Jerusalem was a memory.

Jerusalem was still in ruins from the First Jewish-Roman War in 70 AD. Josephus, a contemporary, reports that "Jerusalem ... was so thoroughly razed to the ground by those that demolished it to its foundations, that nothing was left that could ever persuade visitors that it had once been a place of habitation."

Thinking objectively, that sounds like it never even existed there to begin with. Archaeology agrees. There is no physical proof that Solomon's Temple was real and existed there. There is no psychical proof that Herod'd Temple was real and existed there. There is absolutely nothing Herodian that survived in to the 2nd century AD. In fact, there is no proof Herod was even real outside of some rather vague 'evidence'

Aelia Capitolina was very real and very Roman. What people don't even realize is that the "Old City" has ZERO religious significance. "Jesus" was never buried at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and the church was originally a temple created for Venus. The Temple Mount's 'first temple' was devoted to Zeus. Aelia Capitolina's framework is the basis for EVERYTHING "biblical" regarding Jerusalem. AKA there is nothing biblical about it.

As others have noted, Vatican City and the "Old City" of Jerusalem have a very similar map. They were sister cities and were originally both devoted to "pagan" Roman gods.

I don't disagree that they desire WWIII or that the theory is truly fringe. Rome never fell. Even when the Ottomans conquered Constantinople they still called it Rome. I don't know why historians don't. Rome was never a consistent or unified entity. Not from a government or religious standpoint.

In 1922, Rome switched it's power center from the Ottoman Empire and British Empire to the USSR and the USA. That's a fact.

The whole Islam thing is a straw man. The British lost a great deal of power after WWI. 1922 was the catalyst for all of this shit. Peak of the British Empire, end of the Ottoman Empire, beginning of the USSR, and the switch to USA from England for that empire.

cramhankie
11-06-2012, 07:20 AM
Because the whole Jerusalem thing is so religiously sensitive, people don't even realize what it even represents beyond the superficial bullshit story.

This is a fact: Jerusalem is a legend and a myth. There is no such thing as Jerusalem. Period. Jerusalem the Old City in Occupied Palestine IS NOT AND WAS NEVER Jerusalem. It was a ROMAN city called Aelia Capitolina.

When Aelia Capitolina was built some time in the first century AD, biblical Jerusalem was a memory.

Jerusalem was still in ruins from the First Jewish-Roman War in 70 AD. Josephus, a contemporary, reports that "Jerusalem ... was so thoroughly razed to the ground by those that demolished it to its foundations, that nothing was left that could ever persuade visitors that it had once been a place of habitation."

Thinking objectively, that sounds like it never even existed there to begin with. Archaeology agrees. There is no physical proof that Solomon's Temple was real and existed there. There is no psychical proof that Herod'd Temple was real and existed there. There is absolutely nothing Herodian that survived in to the 2nd century AD. In fact, there is no proof Herod was even real outside of some rather vague 'evidence'

Aelia Capitolina was very real and very Roman. What people don't even realize is that the "Old City" has ZERO religious significance. "Jesus" was never buried at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and the church was originally a temple created for Venus. The Temple Mount's 'first temple' was devoted to Zeus. Aelia Capitolina's framework is the basis for EVERYTHING "biblical" regarding Jerusalem. AKA there is nothing biblical about it.


Luke 19:41-44 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

loveisthelaw
11-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Translation: "I hate the Truth."

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9243/squareandcompasshexagra.jpg

http://www.captiveminds.org/amss/freekab.htm



That is wishful thinking :) if you were as observant as you are verbose, you would see that my avatar is not a "Zionist" hexagram. One can't help feel you might hate the truth ;)

.....and the little diagram showing a connection between the ancient hexagram (before your "Jesus" was around on the rock) and the Masonic square and compass is trite... but perhaps you are new to scene so you are forgiven.

cramhankie
11-06-2012, 09:19 PM
That is wishful thinking :) if you were as observant as you are verbose, you would see that my avatar is not a "Zionist" hexagram. One can't help feel you might hate the truth ;)

.....and the little diagram showing a connection between the ancient hexagram (before your "Jesus" was around on the rock) and the Masonic square and compass is trite... but perhaps you are new to scene so you are forgiven.

A hexagram is a hexagram is a hexagram.

You use it with the same doctrinal meaning as do the Kabbalists who are the elite Zionists.

loveisthelaw
11-06-2012, 09:27 PM
A hexagram is a hexagram is a hexagram.

You use it with the same doctrinal meaning as do the Kabbalists who are the elite Zionists.

Presumptuousness will land one in trouble some day. I feel you have little intuition as to why I use it.

What happens if you one day discover your "new" "addition" to the original Jewish books were also developed by those pesky, mischievous Zionists to make you subservient to their very same tetragrammaton, I mean god (lower case of course)? Oh er missus!

Did you realise in your haste that a hexagram is also a Pentagon with 6 triangles or points and can represent more than you can imagine ;) I shall save the schooling.

cramhankie
11-06-2012, 10:13 PM
Presumptuousness will land one in trouble some day. I feel you have little intuition as to why I use it.

What happens if you one day discover your "new" "addition" to the original Jewish books were also developed by those pesky, mischievous Zionists to make you subservient to their very same tetragrammaton, I mean god (lower case of course)? Oh er missus!

Did you realise in your haste that a hexagram is also a Pentagon with 6 triangles or points and can represent more than you can imagine ;) I shall save the schooling.

I am not subservient to the false god of the Zionist Talmudists and their masters the Kabbalists.

You are.

loveisthelaw
11-06-2012, 10:31 PM
I am not subservient to the false god of the Zionist Talmudists and their masters the Kabbalists.

You are.

This is reminiscent of the days at school.

"My dad is bigger than your dad!"

"My god is more powerful than your god"

I am my God because I am the master of my own outcome according to the choices I make.

The Kabbalah is as lame and as good as the Bible; both of which have some wonderful knowledge but equally both have large sprinkles of bullshit :)

A hammer is better than a screw driver for hitting a nail, but both are useful tools.

cramhankie
11-06-2012, 11:14 PM
This is reminiscent of the days at school.

"My dad is bigger than your dad!"

"My god is more powerful than your god"

I am my God because I am the master of my own outcome according to the choices I make.

The Kabbalah is as lame and as good as the Bible; both of which have some wonderful knowledge but equally both have large sprinkles of bullshit :)

A hammer is better than a screw driver for hitting a nail, but both are useful tools.

And as you pursue your Satanic ego, reveling in "balance" with evil, thinking your corrupt self to be God, believing the exact same way as the Kabbalists, and sporting their symbol, you do serve the Serpent who controls you, and who controls them, and yes...

My God can kick your god's ass, and he will, your god's time is almost up.

loveisthelaw
11-06-2012, 11:22 PM
And as you pursue your Satanic ego, reveling in "balance" with evil, thinking your corrupt self to be God, believing the exact same way as the Kabbalists, and sporting their symbol, you do serve the Serpent who controls you, and who controls them, and yes...

My God can kick your god's ass, and he will, your god's time is almost up.

"I cast ice bolt at your god and it falls in to my martini" Cheers! ;)

cramhankie
11-06-2012, 11:59 PM
That I do not receive the same strong disdain from you as from many others gives me some hope for you.

God bless ya!

loveisthelaw
12-06-2012, 12:06 AM
That I do not receive the same strong disdain from you as from many others gives me some hope for you.

God bless ya!

any being why strives to understand / seek knowledge has all my wishes and respect whether their path is mine or not!

Yes, it has!!!

believenothing
12-06-2012, 12:13 AM
Luke 19:41-44 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

That's not proof of anything. If Jerusalem was real and really destroyed like Josephus wrote (which is doubtful), then what you quoted could easily have been written afterward and spun into a prophecy for maximum effect

Or it never happened. Because if it happened, then everything in the Old City is Roman. Western Wall and everything. If Josephus (or the above 'prophecy') was right, Jews in Israel have no historical claim to Jerusalem and everything in there is from the non-Jewish Roman period or later. They obviously don't believe that.

The framework is definitely Roman though and it's older than 130 AD. Which means that the war/revolt/destruction thing probably never happened. So where did the city even come unless Jerusalem was much older or was never even there? I wrote a thread about this:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213205

If Jerusalem was real, it wasn't in Palestine. Or it was long gone and a memory by the early first century

cramhankie
12-06-2012, 09:21 AM
Sound logic:

http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-whom

None of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. This is significant because Jesus had prophesied its destruction when He said, "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and burned the Temple. The gold in the Temple melted down between the stone walls and the Romans took the walls apart, stone by stone, to get the melted gold. Such an obvious fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy most likely would have been recorded by the gospel writers if they had been written after 70 A.D. Also, if the gospels were fabrications of mythical events then anything to bolster the Messianic claims -- such as the destruction of the temple as Jesus prophesied -- would surely have been included. But, it was not included suggesting that the gospels (at least Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were written before 70 A.D.

Similarly, this argument is important when we consider the dating of the book of Acts which was written after the gospel of Luke by Luke himself. Acts is a history of the Christian church right after Jesus' ascension. Acts also fails to mention the incredibly significant events of 70 A.D. which would have been extremely relevant and prophetically important and naturally would have garnered inclusion into Acts had it occurred before Acts was written. Remember, Acts is a book of the history of the early Christian church. The fact that the incredibly significant destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is not recorded is very strong evidence that Acts was written before A.D. 70. If we add to this the fact that Acts does not include the accounts of "Nero's persecution of the Christians in A.D. 64 or the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65),"1 and we have further evidence that it was written very early and not long after Jesus' ascension into heaven.

If we look at Acts 1:1-2 it says, "The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when He was taken up, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen." Most scholars affirm that Acts was written by Luke and that Theophilus (Grk. "lover of God") "may have been Luke’s patron who financed the writing of Luke and Acts."2 This means that the gospel of Luke was written before Acts.

"At the earliest, Acts cannot have been written prior to the latest firm chronological marker recorded in the book—Festus’s appointment as procurator (24:27), which, on the basis of independent sources, appears to have occurred between A.D. 55 and 59."3
"It is increasingly admitted that the Logia [Q] was very early, before 50 A.D., and Mark likewise if Luke wrote the Acts while Paul was still alive. Luke's Gospel comes before the Acts (Acts 1:1). The date of Acts is still in dispute, but the early date (about A.D. 63) is gaining support constantly."4

For clarity, Q is supposedly one of the source documents used by both Matthew and Luke in writing their gospels. If Q actually existed then that would push the first writings of Christ's words and deeds back even further lessening the available time for myth to creep in and adding to the validity and accuracy of the gospel accounts. If what is said of Acts is true, this would mean that Luke was written at least before A.D. 63 and possibly before 55 - 59 since Acts is the second in the series of writings by Luke. This means that the gospel of Luke was written within 30 years of Jesus' death.

sandwarrior
12-06-2012, 05:55 PM
I posted this in another thread but thought it relevent here to.

In the koran there are lots of passages reffering to the Children of Israel.

Almost always they seem to referenced as almost seperate to Jews, Christians and Sabians. They have an almost exalted status.

For example:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds. (ie. peoples)

What are the Children of Israel?

And why would God prefer them over the rest?

It seems even in the Koran, God gives the children of Israel exalted status over other peoples.

Can you shed any light on this?

cramhankie
12-06-2012, 09:14 PM
I posted this in another thread but thought it relevent here to.

In the koran there are lots of passages reffering to the Children of Israel.

Almost always they seem to referenced as almost seperate to Jews, Christians and Sabians. They have an almost exalted status.

For example:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds. (ie. peoples)

What are the Children of Israel?

And why would God prefer them over the rest?

It seems even in the Koran, God gives the children of Israel exalted status over other peoples.

Can you shed any light on this?

Sure can. :)

In the book of Genesis, YHWH makes a covenant with Abram, a man who had been living in pagan Mesopotamia, land of the ancient Sumerian culture.

Genesis 11:31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there.

It should be noted that Abram was coming from one of the most advanced civilizations on earth at the time, and was not merely some "idiot desert sheep herder", as can be seen here:

Plan of a Private Home in Ur of the Chaldeans at the Time of Abraham, 2,100 B.C.

http://s8int.com/phile/page45.html

http://s8int.com/images4/urhouse4.jpg

It should be realized that Abram left a comfortable life in civilized Mesopotamia to go on a long journey living out of tents instead.

Genesis 12:1-7 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you. ”

So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran. He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Harran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.

Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land. ” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him.


After a detour into Egypt, God gets more specific about what he is promising Abram here:


Genesis 13:12-18 Abram lived in the land of Canaan, while Lot lived among the cities of the plain and pitched his tents near Sodom. Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.

The Lord said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, “Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”

So Abram went to live near the great trees of Mamre at Hebron, where he pitched his tents. There he built an altar to the Lord.


Then there is some strife in the land of Canaan, and we get our first clue on how large Abram's entourage was:


Genesis 14:14-16 When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus. He recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people.

318 men were trained fighters, so adding in some untrained men and the families of all those men we have probably over a thousand people who are under Abram. So it should be realized that not only did Abram live a comfortable lifestyle in civilized Ur, but Abram was a reasonably wealthy and powerful man who commanded warriors, Abram was very comparable to an Arab sheik, or perhaps in our modern Western capitalist perspective, he was CEO of a large family-owned business with hundreds of employees and a private security force.

But, I digress.

Genesis 15:2-6 But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus? ” And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”

Then the word of the Lord came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir. ” He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars —if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”

Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Genesis 15:12-21 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. You, however, will go to your ancestors in peace and be buried at a good old age. In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[Nile] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates — the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

God promised Abram that he would have his own son, and that his descendants would be given all the land from Egypt to Iraq.

Early Zionist Irgun terrorist propaganda poster:

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/08/arabic-media-discovers-old-irgun.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y8jB1DPdjOM/TkVgifqPDrI/AAAAAAAAEmY/UXyrqKrKuwk/s640/irgun1.jpg

Lots of good maps here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/greater-israel-maps.htm

This would be about the fullest extent the idea of Eretz Israel could represent:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/images/greater-israel-map2-s.jpg

To be continued...

cramhankie
12-06-2012, 11:14 PM
Genesis 16:1-12 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.”

Abram agreed to what Sarai said. So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the Lord judge between you and me.”

“Your slave is in your hands, ” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.

The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”

“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

The angel of the Lord also said to her:

“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the Lord has heard of your misery.
He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers. ”

And so Ishmael was born, and prophesied to live in hostility with his brothers. This prophecy is given about Ishmael himself, but has often been used to explain modern and historical Jewish/Muslim conflict, even though, as Believenothing correctly explained in the OP, historical Jewish/Muslim conflict has been often grossly exaggerated since the advent of modern political Zionism.

Ishmael - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After roaming the wilderness for some time, Ishmael and his mother settled in the Desert of Paran, where he became an expert in archery. Eventually, his mother found him a wife from the land of Egypt.[6] They had 12 sons who became 12 tribal chiefs throughout the regions from Havilah to Shur (from Assyria to the border of Egypt).[7] His children are listed as follows:[8]

Nebaioth
Kedar, father of the Qedarites, (A northern Arab tribe that controlled the region between the Persian Gulf and the Sinai Peninsula). According to tradition, ancestor of Muhammad and the Quraysh tribe.[9]
Adbeel, established a tribe in northwest Arabia.
Mibsam
Mishma
Dumah, associated with Adummatu described as "a fortress of Arabia" in Saudi Arabia.
Massa, father of a nomadic tribe that inhabited the Arabian desert toward Babylonia.
Hadad
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah

Genesis 17:1-22 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”

Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God. ”

Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant. ”

God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”

Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”

Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.

There are doctrines to be understood here.

1. When God gives a prophecy of the future, it is going to happen.
2. When man tries to take control from God, it only causes problems, and this can be understood as a statement against the pagan doctrine of self-divinity, Abraham took the place of God in trying to fulfill God's promise to him when he followed Sarah's advice and took Hagar to bed, instead of having total faith in External Divinity. I will come back to number 2 later.
3. The descendants of Isaac were going to be Special. God had chosen Abraham out of all the people on earth to make a special covenant with, and that special covenant was going to be continued with his children, and the males were to have a physical sign of their covenant with God.

http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm

According to Canadian pathologist John Taylor, M.B., the foreskin is one of the key erogenous zones of the male body. Its 240 feet of nerves and 1,000 nerve endings are similar to those on the fingers and lips.

“The fact is,” says Goldman, “when it comes to sex, circumcised men don’t know what they’re missing.”

But a few do. Increasingly, men who were circumcised as adults (for various medical reasons) are speaking out against circumcision, providing firsthand accounts of sex before and after.

“I had ample sexual experience, and I was quite happy as an intact male,” says Rick Thomas, who was circumcised on advice of his doctor at age 26. “After my circumcision, that pleasure was utterly gone. On a scale of 10, the uncircumcised penis experiences pleasure of at least 11 or 12; the circumcised penis is lucky to get to 3. If men who were circumcised at birth knew the loss of pleasure they would experience, they would storm the hospitals and not permit their sons to undergo this.”

Douglas MacArthur, a 55-year-old locksmith from Pennsylvania who was also circumcised as an adult, reports similar problems. “Sex before circumcision was like driving a luxury car with automatic transmission,” he explains. “I used to just glide along. Sex now is like driving a tiny, powerless compact with a manual transmission. It takes a lot of work to get anywhere. My penis has lost 90 percent of its sensitivity.

I believe that it was God's intention for the Hebrew males to lose some sexual pleasure from circumcision.

The pagan nations worshipped nature, they worshipped many gods representing various aspects of nature, and they worshipped sex, as is explained in-depth by a pagan occultist here:

The Serpent and the Dove

http://gorish.blogspot.com/2011/09/serpent-and-dove.html

The mystery and power of sexuality taps into a current which unites the physical with the spiritual.

Diametrically opposed to that doctrine is this doctrine:

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. -- Jesus, John 6:63

The Hebrews were being consecrated unto God as an exalted people, and the males were being shown that the purpose of life was not material pleasure in the physical realm, but to have a spiritual relationship with the One Creator God.

to be continued...

exu156
13-06-2012, 12:19 AM
From Dr. Alfred M. Lilienthal's wonderful book What Price Israel?

Today, to trace anyone's descent to ancient Palestine would be a genealogical impossibility; and to presume, axiomatically, such a descent for Jews, alone among all human groups, is an assumption of purely fictional significance. Most everybody in the Western world could stake out some claim of Palestinian descent if genealogical records could be established for two-thousand years. And there are, indeed, people who, though not by the widest stretch of imagination Jewish, proudly make that very claim: some of the oldest of the South's aristocratic families play a game of comparing whose lineage goes farther back into 'Israel'. No one knows what happened to the Ten Lost Tribes of 'Israel', but to speculate on who might be who is a favored Anglo-Saxon pastime, and Queen Victoria belonged to an 'Israelite' Society that traced the ancestry of its membership back to those lost tribes.

Twelve tribes started in Canaan about thirty-five centuries ago; and not only that ten of them disappeared - more than half of the members of the remaining two tribes never returned from their "exile" in Babylon. How then, can anybody claim to descend directly from that relatively small community which inhabited the Holy Land at the time of Abraham's Covenant with God?

The Jewish racial myth flows from the fact that the words Hebrew, 'Israelite', Jew, Judaism, and the Jewish people have been used synonymously to suggest a historic continuity. But this is a misuse. These words refer to different groups of people with varying ways of life in different periods in history. Hebrew is a term correctly applied to the period from the beginning of Biblical history to the settling in Canaan. 'Israelite' refers correctly to the members of the twelve tribes of 'Israel'. The name Yehudi or Jew is used in the Old Testament to designate members of the tribe of Judah, descendants of the fourth son of Jacob, as well as to denote citizens of the Kingdom of Judah, particularly at the time of Jeremiah and under the Persian occupation. Centuries later, the same word came to be applied to anyone, no matter of what origin, whose religion was Judaism.

The descriptive name Judaism was never heard by the Hebrews or 'Israelites'; it appears only with Christianity. Flavius Josephus was one of the first to use the name in his recital of the war with the Romans to connote a totality of beliefs, moral commandments, religious practices and ceremonial institutions of Galilee which he believed superior to rival Hellenism. When the word Judaism was born, there was no longer a Hebrew-'Israelite' state. The people who embraced the creed of Judaism were already mixed of many races and strains; and this diversification was rapidly growing...

Perhaps the most significant mass conversion to the Judaic faith occurred in Europe, in the 8th century A.D., and that story of the Khazars (Turko-Finnish people) is quite pertinent to the establishment of the modern State of 'Israel'. This partly nomadic people, probably related to the Volga Bulgars, first appeared in Trans-Caucasia in the second century. They settled in what is now Southern Russia, between the Volga and the Don, and then spread to the shores of the Black, Caspian and Azov seas. The Kingdom of Khazaria, ruled by a khagan or khakan fell to Attila the Hun in 448, and to the Muslims in 737. In between, the Khazars ruled over part of the Bulgarians, conquered the Crimea, and stretched their kingdom over the Caucasus farther to the northwest to include Kiev, and eastwards to Derbend. Annual tributes were levied on the Russian Slavonians of Kiev. The city of Kiev was probably built by the Khazars. There were Jews in the city and the surrounding area before the Russian Empire was founded by the Varangians whom the Scandinavian warriors sometimes called the Russ or Ross (circa 855-863).

The influence of the Khazars extended into what is now Hungary and Roumania. Today, the villages of Kozarvar and Kozard in Transylvania bear testimony to the penetration of the Khazars who, with the Magyars, then proceeded into present-day Hungary. The size and power of the Kingdom of Khazaria is indicated by the act that it sent an army of 40,000 soldiers (in 626-627) to help Heraclius of the Byzantines to conquer the Persians. The Jewish Encyclopedia proudly refers to Khazaria as having had a "well constituted and tolerant government, a flourishing trade and a well disciplined army."

Jews who had been banished from Constantinople by the Byzantine ruler, Leo III, found a home amongst these heretofore pagan Khazars and, in competition with Mohammedan and Christian missionaries, won them over to the Judaic faith. Bulan, the ruler of Khazaria, became converted to Judaism around 740 A.D. His nobles and, somewhat later, his people followed suit. Some details of these events are contained in letters exchanged between Khagan Joseph of Khazaria and R. Hasdai Ibn Shaprut of Cordova, doctor and quasi foreign minister to Sultan Abd al-Rahman, the Caliph of Spain. This correspondence (around 936-950) was first published in 1577 to prove that the Jews still had a country of their own - namely, the Kingdom of Khazaria. Judah Halevi knew of the letters even in 1140. Their authenticity has since been established beyond doubt.

According to these Hasdai-Joseph letters, Khagan Bulan decided one day: "Paganism is useless. It is shameful for us to be pagans. Let us adopt one of the heavenly religions, Christianity, Judaism or Islam." And Bulan summoned three priests representing the three religions and had them dispute their creeds before him. But, no priest could convince the others, or the sovereign, that his religion was the best. So the ruler spoke to each of them separately. He asked the Christian priest: "If you were not a Christian or had to give up Christianity, which would you prefer - Islam or Judaism?" The priest said: "If I were to give up Christianity, I would become a Jew." Bulan then asked the follower of Islam the same question, and the Moslem also chose Judaism. This is how Bulan came to choose Judaism for himself and the people of Khazaria in the seventh century A.D., and thereafter the Khazars (sometimes spelled Chazars and Khozars) lived according to Judaic laws.

Under the rule of Obadiah, Judaism gained further strength in Khazaria. Synagogues and schools were built to give instruction in the Bible and the Talmud. As Professor Graetz notes in his History of the Jews, "A successor of Bulan who bore the Hebrew name of Obadiah was the first to make serious efforts to further the Jewish religion. He invited Jewish sages to settle in his dominions, rewarded them royally... and introduced a divine service modeled on the ancient communities. After Obadiah came a long series of Jewish Chagans (Khagans), for according to a fundamental law of the state only Jewish rulers were permitted to ascend the throne." Khazar traders brought not only silks and carpets of Persia and the Near East but also their Judaic faith to the banks of the Vistula and the Volga. But the Kingdom of Khazaria was invaded by the Russians, and Itil, its great capital, fell to Sweatoslav of Kiev in 969. The Byzantines had become afraid and envious of the Khazars and, in a joint expedition with the Russians, conquered the Crimean portion of Khazaria in 1016. (Crimea was known as "Chazaria" until the 13th century). The Khazarian Jews were scattered throughout what is now Russia and Eastern Europe. Some were taken North where they joined the established Jewish community of Kiev.

Others returned to the Caucasus. Many Khazars remarried in the Crimea and in Hungary. The Cagh Chafut, or "mountain Jews," in the Caucasus and the Hebraile Jews of Georgia are their descendants. These "Ashkenazim Jews" (as Jews of Eastern Europe are called), whose numbers were swelled by Jews who fled from Germany at the time of the Crusades and during the Black Death, have little or no trace of Semitic blood.

That the Khazars are the lineal ancestors of Eastern European Jewry is a historical fact. Jewish historians and religious text books acknowledge the fact, though the propagandists of Jewish nationalism belittle it as pro-Arab propaganda. Somewhat ironically, Volume IV of the Jewish Encyclopedia - because this publication spells Khazars with a "C" instead of a "K" - is titled "Chazars to Dreyfus": and it was the Dreyfus trial, as interpreted by Theodor Herzl, that made the modern Jewish Khazars of Russia forget their descent from converts to Judaism and accept anti-Semitism as proof of their Palestinian origin.

For all that anthropologists know, Hitler's ancestry might go back to one of the ten Lost Tribes of 'Israel'; while Weizmann may be a descendant of the Khazars, the converts to Judaism who were in no anthropological respect related to Palestine. The home to which Weizmann, Silver and so many other Ashkenazim Zionists have yearned to return has most likely never been theirs. "Here's a paradox, a paradox, a most ingenious paradox": in anthropological fact, many Christians may have much more Hebrew-'Israelite' blood in their veins than most of their Jewish neighbors.

Race can play funny tricks on people who make that concept the basis for their likes and dislikes. Race-obsessed people can find themselves hating people who, in fact, may be their own racial kith and kin.

exu156
13-06-2012, 12:58 AM
Continued...

Careful research by top Jewish archaeologist Israel Finkelstein from the Tel Aviv University has uncovered the shocking truth behind the Old Testament stories about the origins of the Jewish State of Israel . . . it didnt happen that way.

Christians and Jewish religious leaders cried heresy in 2001 when Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the university's Archaeology Department, and historian journalist Neil Asher Silberman published 'The Bible Unearthed: Archaeologys New Version of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text'.

Yet another Tel Aviv archaeologist, Ze'ev Herzog, beat them to the punch when he published a magazine and newspaper article in 1999 that also blew the whistle on the twisted Bible stories.

In essence, they are all saying that archaeological research shows that the Israelites were never in Egypt, they never wandered in the desert, they never conquered the land of Canaan in a military campaign and the land was never passed on to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Also, the walls of Jericho never came crashing down, and there was never an empire of Israel under the reign of Kings David and Solomon. If they existed at all, David and Solomon headed modest chiefdoms.

The stories of the great patriarchs like Abraham, Isaac and Joseph are also in question because the scholars are finding the Bible stories filled with inconsistencies. The ancient Egyptians left no evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula lacks any evidence of the large encampments required for so many people to have made during 40 years of living in the desert.

In his book, Finkelstein theorizes that the Israelites were among the many nomadic shepherd tribes that existed among the Canaanites. If so, it means they came from the same genetic origins as the other people in the Middle East, including the Palestinians, and that the grand national myth of a people chosen by God to rule the "Promised Land" is just that, a myth without basic for fact.

The famous battle of Jericho, as told in the Book of Joshua, also is debunked by archaeological evidence. It turns out that the city of Jericho didn't exist at the time this event was supposed to have happened. Once it did exist, the city had no walls.

The story of David, whose army captured Jerusalem and established a vast united empire, and his son, Solomon, who reportedly acquired great wealth and built the first temple, is perhaps the core of the Israeli myth of ownership and superiority over the Palestinians who occupied the land until the Jews were driven to the area during World War II.

Authors Finkelstein and Silberman suggest in their book that it was Josiah, a descending king over a more developed Jerusalem who lived over 300 years after David, who ordered the transcription of the Old Testament stories. Josiah apparently believed, as have many great rulers since, that a national scripture was needed to cement a monotheistic religious orthodoxy. The Old Testament stories have continued to generate a national identity for the new Israel even today.

Amy Dockser Marcus, author of The View From Nebo: How Archaeology Is Rewriting the Bible and Reshaping the Middle East, notes that certain things like monumental structures, royal documents, or national scripture like the Old Testament, are almost always "a sign of state formation, in which power is centralized in national institutions like an official cult or monarchy."

exu156
13-06-2012, 01:02 AM
Some quotes...

"Nowhere in Torah (also called the Pentateuch, or the first five books of the Bible) is there any mention of Jerusalem let alone a temple anywhere in Jerusalem. And to a Jew, the Torah is God's law and blueprint for all mankind's peaceful existence" - Stephen M. St. John

"The adoption of the name Israel by the Zionist state which was set up in Palestine in 1948 was transparent false pretense" - Douglas Reed (Controversy of Zion)

"Nay, not only are there no proofs of the twelve tribes of Israel having ever existed, but Herodotus, the most accurate of historians, who was in Assyria when Ezra flourished, never mentions the Israelites at all. How is this possible?" - Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (The Secret Doctrine, vol 3)

"Anything like a pure bred tribe of Judah must have disappeared some centuries before Christ, at the latest" - Douglas Reed (Controversy of Zion)

"Hebrew was never spoken by the Aramaic people of Syria, the so-called Jews, or by the people of any other countries. It was used by the ancient Irish priesthood of Iesa, precisely as Latin is today used in the Roman Church to impress the multitude" - Conor Mac Dari

"In the following sections, we will endeavor to unravel the mysteries of the races, tribes and cults, and to show clearly where the symbolism which they all employed actually came from. We will show that even though the symbols detailed here were certainly used by tribes and races calling themselves "Jewish" and "Christian," etc., they are of far earlier origins. They came into the possession of eastern peoples after a historically distant period of traversals and migrations from West to East, journeys which have been obscured and consciously expunged from history.

The new history of Palestinean peoples and their distant beginnings stems almost entirely from archaeological and linguistic research undertaken over the past fifty years. It presents a picture so radically unfamiliar, and so very different from a biblical view as to be hardly recognizable to the writers of the Bible" - Thomas L. Thompson (The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel)

"When we start with Israel...we need to recognize that our understanding of Israel as a people and as a nation is unrelated to any known historical Israel" -Thomas L. Thompson (The Mythic Past, Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel)

"Of course, there was an Israel! The name itself is used already at the close of the Late Bronze Age on an Egyptian monument to refer to the People of Canaan that Pharaoh Merenptah's military campaign into Palestine fought against. But this is not the Israel that the Bible deals with." -Thomas L. Thompson (The Mythic Past, Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel)

"As a whole, we historians have not done very well in using Biblical stories to write our history with. If one feels bound to understand the history of Israel as a revision of the Bible's traditions, one must admit the near total lack of warrant that these stories have for being accepted as historical." -Thomas L. Thompson (The Mythic Past, Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel)

"Because of the false but very common idea that the Jews of today are all that remain of the ancient Israel people, it becomes necessary here to point out that, with the exception of a very few individuals, none of the ten-tribed house of Israel and only a very small remnant of the two-tribed House of Judah ever returned to Palestine after their deportation to Assyria and Babylon. With the fall of the empires...the tribes, groups and clans and became a part of that great north-western migration of peoples into and across Europe which took place in the centuries just before the beginning of the Christian era." -W. H. Bennet (Symbols of our Celto-Saxon Heritage)

"...it was impossible for any Jew at this time to describe himself truthfully as of the tribe of Benjamin...the Benjaminites later intermarried with the tribe of Judah to such an extent that they lost their separate identity and all became Judites or Jews. Only the Levites, the priestly tribe, and that section of the Levites called the Kohanim (Cohens) or priests (the descendents of Aaron) retained their identity because they needed to do so for cultic reasons. All other Jews were simply known as Israelites for cultic purposes...and no distinction was made for any religious purpose between Judites or Benjaminites, so that there was no motive for preserving the distinction. Consequently, when Paul described himself as "of the Tribe of Benjamin," this was sheer bluff, though the recipients of his letters, the Gentile converts to Christianity, were in no position to know this." - From Hebrew scholar Hyam Maccoby's The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity

"The Books of Samuel, Judges and Kings are supposed to cover nearly 1000 years of Jewish history, yet they make no reference to Jahveh’s talks with Moses: they say nothing about the miracles Moses performed in Egypt, his passage to the Red Sea or his wanderings in the Wilderness. Nor do they make any allusions to the stories given in Genesis of Creation, Adam and Eve and the Deluge. Although the names of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses are mentioned a few times, nothing is said about their lives and they are treated as if they were merely obscure, legendary figures." - Ernest Busenbark (Symbols, Sex and the Stars)

"Strange as it may seem, and difficult as it is to mentally take on-board, it remains an incontestable fact that NO EVIDENCE whatsoever exists to support the legitimacy of a topographically placed Israelite nation, during the times given in the Bible and by so-called Biblical "experts." From the disciplines of archaeology, ethnology, history, and geography, there comes precious little evidence supporting any Biblical claim to the affirmative. There is no evidence for a United Israelite Monarchy; no evidence for a physical location, in ancient times, called Jerusalem, nor for a Temple of Jerusalem. There is no evidence of wars for Palestinian conquest, and no evidence for kings of Israel and Judah (Saul, David, Solomon). Yes, we have the Bible's vexatious and spurious stories of their existence, but tragically difficult as it is for most people to comprehend - stories are not proof. Sadly, of the many miracles mentioned in the Bible, and by the clergy, the miracle of how people came to believe in utter nonsense was never elucidated.

Palestine never developed a political power of any great international significance. It was always so divided by its many small regions that it never developed a common history except when it was controlled by some power from outside, such as Egypt, Assyria and Babylonia. High culture, as expressed in art, architecture, literature and pageant, hardly existed. Most of what has survived is either foreign in origins or derivative from Phoenicia on the Syrian coast." -Thomas L. Thompson (The Mythic Past, Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel)

Which all merely help to confirm that crap like this:

Sure can. :)

In the book of Genesis, YHWH makes a covenant with Abram, a man who had been living in pagan Mesopotamia, land of the ancient Sumerian culture.

blah, blah, blah

and this:

[B]Genesis 16:1-12 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; so she said to Abram, "blah,blah,blah".

are nothing but the usual fundamentalist dribble unsupported by any tangible evidence.

bendoon
13-06-2012, 01:32 AM
but Herodotus, the most accurate of historians, who was in Assyria when Ezra flourished, never mentions the Israelites at all. How is this possible?" - Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (The Secret Doctrine, vol 3)

Because the Israelites had all left over 200 years earlier as recorded by the Assyrians themselves.

"Nowhere in Torah (also called the Pentateuch, or the first five books of the Bible) is there any mention of Jerusalem let alone a temple anywhere in Jerusalem. And to a Jew, the Torah is God's law and blueprint for all mankind's peaceful existence" - Stephen M. St. John

Thats pretty obvious since Jerusalem was established after the time covered by the Pentateuch.

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 01:35 AM
What are the Children of Israel?

And why would God prefer them over the rest?

Can you shed any light on this?

...continuing


I am implying that everything god created is perfect for the purpose it was created for.

I am not saying that killing is perfect but let us assume that there were no "evils" in the material world, then how would we be able to experience the beauty and wonder of kindness and love?

How does one experience the beauty of the flower without first removing the weeds?

For love to exists there has to be non-love since they are polars of the same energy. For kindness to exists there has to be non-kindness, otherwise it would be impossible to experience it since experience is reliant on difference and comparison.

God separated the Israelites from the pagan nations to show the difference between his righteous law and the evil of the pagan occult nations, since as Loveisthelaw said, experience is reliant on difference and comparison.

The Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, as God had told Abraham they would be, and Moses was raised up by God to lead them out. The Pharoah of Egypt would not let them go.

Exodus 9:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.”

Exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Romans 9:17-28 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 02:33 AM
Exodus 7:1-5 Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. And the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it.”

God sent Moses to tell Pharoah to let his people go, and Pharoah refused.

10 times Pharoah refused, and 10 plagues were brought down on Egypt, each plague corresponding to a different pagan god of nature-worshipping Egypt.

http://inthedoghouse.hubpages.com/hub/Ten-Plagues-For-Ten-Gods

1. Nile Water Turned to Blood

Hapi- god of the Nile

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6444949_f248.jpg

2. Frogs coming from the Nile River

Heket- goddess of Fertility, Water, Renewal

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6444957_f248.jpg

3. Lice from the dust of the earth

Geb- god of the Earth

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6444963_f248.jpg

4. Swarms of Flies

Khepri- insect god of creation, movement of the Sun, rebirth

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6444967_f260.jpg

5. Death of Cattle and Livestock

Hathor - cow goddess of Love and Protection

http://omegafoundation.siriuscomputing.net/Images/HathorCow.jpg

6. Ashes turned to Boils and Sores

Isis - goddess of Medicine and Peace

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6444982_f248.jpg

7. Hail rained down in the form of fire

Nut - goddess of the Sky

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6444986_f248.jpg

8. Locusts sent from the sky

Seth- god of Storms and Disorder

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6444988_f248.jpg

9. Three Days of Complete Darkness

Ra - The Sun God

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6444991_f248.jpg

10. Death of the Firstborn

Pharaoh - the god king of Egypt

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6444997_f248.jpg

And that last plague is just crammed full of symbolism:

Exodus 11:1-7 Now the Lord had said to Moses, “I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold.” (The Lord made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh’s officials and by the people.)

So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any person or animal.’ Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.

Exodus 12:1-14 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household. If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.

“This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a lasting ordinance.


The Israelites were divided from Egypt, they were spared the judgement of God by the sacrifice of a perfect and unblemished lamb, they were atoned for by the blood, the life, of the lamb on their doorposts.


John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Matthew 26:26-28 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

exu156
13-06-2012, 03:03 AM
...continuing



God separated the Israelites from the pagan nations to show the difference between his righteous law and the evil of the pagan occult nations, since as Loveisthelaw said, experience is reliant on difference and comparison.

The Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, as God had told Abraham they would be, and Moses was raised up by God to lead them out. The Pharoah of Egypt would not let them go.

Exodus 9:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.”

Exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Romans 9:17-28 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”


"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

"...The existence of [The State of] Israel is not founded on logic. It has no ordinary legitimacy. There is neither in its establishment nor present scope any evident justice - though there may be an utter need for wondrous fulfillment.'...today’s Jews were, for the most part, descendants of Khazars, who converted to Judaism seven centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D... Therefore, the great majority of Eastern European Jews are not Semitic Jews at all, and as most Western European Jews came from East Europe, most of them also are not Semitic Jews." - Dr. Alfred M. Lilienthal

Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem:

"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3)

Therefore, the Bible states that the Ashkenaz Jews [Khazars] are not the descendants of Shem and cannot be Semite.

"The primary meaning of Ashkenaz and Ashkenazim in Hebrew is Germany and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of the ancient ancestors of the Germans is Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz... Krauss is of the opinion that in the early medieval ages the Khazars were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim... About 92 percent of all Jews or approximately 14,500,000 are Ashkenazim." - The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia

So cramhankie is, as per usual, peddling religious fundamentalist nonsense he cannot prove without quoting verse after verse like a parrot.

I really believe that the rise of Christian fundamentalism in the US and its growing influence on US politics and policy makers is one of the most dangerous trends affecting the West today. Christian fundamentalism is a disgusting mutation of old extreme right wingers whom decided that Church and State should be one and the same.

Fundamentalist Christians have an amazing ability to ignore facts and have this remarkable talent for turning off, or running away, when the arguement doesnt suit them. More disturbing is the Christian right's incredible ability to just make up stories whenever it bolsters their argument. When arguing with 'born agains' you really, REALLY, have to double check any claims they make regarding anything remotely political as its usually been sprinkled with a nice generous dose of BS.

The problem was really exmplified by people like Reagan and the Christian extremists he surrounded himself with. This extreme element has been in charge of the Whitehouse for a very long time and they carry an extreme pro-Israel agenda.

Reagan, a born-again nut, used religious terminology to describe political turmoils (never a good mix):


"Sometimes I wonder if we are destined to witness Armageddon."

and

"Got word of Israel bombing of Iraq -- nuclear reactor. I swear I believe Armageddon is near."

[Source: http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/5/1/215939.shtml?s=ic ]

Neocons and the Christian Right - YouTube

You see these people want an armaggedon and the reason they want one is very simple. In their warped interpretation of the Bible this armaggedon is the only way Christ will ever come back. In a sense they are attempting to hurry the end of the world.

Sound far fetched? Allow me to illustrate by using some quotes;

"There'll be no peace until Jesus comes. Any preaching of peace prior to his return is hersy; its against the word of God; its anti-Christ." (Teleavengalist James Robinson).

"I think I could walk right through a nuclear strike and not even smell of smoke if God's got a plan for my life...I believe there'll be enough of us left to rally the church to preach the revival around the world." (Teleavangelist Jimmy Swaggart)

"Jesus was not a pacifist. He was not a sissy. This Jesus of love that so many churches appear to preach is nothing but a faggot." (Teleavengalist John Baker)

This Christian fundamentalism, as dangerous as Islamic fundamentalism, has become more powerful over the years and its influence must be kept in check.

And it wasn't just Reagan and the neo-cons.

There is no difference between conservative and democrat when it comes yo US politicians. They all have this evangelical distortion. Hillary Clinton (that evil bitch) is no different:

In a speech at a fund-raising dinner for a Boston-based organization that promotes faith-based solutions to social problems, Clinton said there has been a "false division" between faith-based approaches to social problems and respect for the separation of church of state.

"We welcome back to the area Senator Hillary Clinton (D., N.Y.), who has been spending so much time here in Little Rock lately that she's practically joined the church choir! "I'm here spending time at my husband's library," she told the Lamp when we caught up with her after a Sunday camp meeting, "and of course, I always take time to worship God in as evangelical a way as is feasible, given time and location constraints. As you know, I consider myself an evangelical Christian, really a Christian conservative, if you want to know the truth, so it's nice to be 'home' again in the South, which I really consider my quote-unquote home even though I live in New York most of the time. Well, Washington, D.C., most of the time, actually, but if I'm not there I'm in New York, of course, but always thinking about being here, in the South, my spiritual home, where I shared so many wonderful evangelical . . . moments and . . . events. Can you read that back to me?"
[Source: http://old.nationalreview.com/issue/long200411160825.asp ]

and

In a speech at a fund-raising dinner for a Boston-based organization that promotes faith-based solutions to social problems, Clinton said there has been a "false division" between faith-based approaches to social problems and respect for the separation of church of state.

"There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles," said Clinton, a New York Democrat who often is mentioned as a possible presidential candidate in 2008.

Addressing a crowd of more than 500, including many religious leaders, at Boston's Fairmont Copley Plaza, Clinton invoked God more than half a dozen times, at one point declaring, "I've always been a praying person."

[Source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/01/20/sen_clinton_urges_use_of_faith_based_initiatives/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+City%2FRegion+News ]

Beware of these fundamentalists!

fundamentalist Christians and Israel - YouTube

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 03:09 AM
You are putting up some great arguments Exu, a lot of good info.

But you are not arguing against my beliefs about Israel, which are God's Truth.

You are attacking a strawman.

Back to writing my posts...

exu156
13-06-2012, 03:15 AM
You are putting up some great arguments Exu, a lot of good info.

But you are not arguing against my beliefs about Israel, which are God's Truth.

You are attacking a strawman.

Back to writing my posts...

That's great. I am sure you will enjoy this article then:

Armageddon Theology and Presidential Decision-Making:Religious Leaders' Concern
http://www.rumormillnews.com/ARMAGEDDON%20THEOLOGY.htm

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 05:36 AM
In the koran there are lots of passages reffering to the Children of Israel.

Almost always they seem to referenced as almost seperate to Jews, Christians and Sabians. They have an almost exalted status.

For example:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds. (ie. peoples)

So what is the difference between the Jews and the children of Israel? Why did Mohammed make a distinction? I am not Muslim, but I also make the same distinction he did.

Fast forward from Egypt through the Biblical history of the Hebrew/Israelites,

(both of those words being nearly perfect synonyms, only that technically Abraham and Isaac were Hebrews, and then Isaac's son Jacob was renamed Israel. His sons descendants became the 12 tribes of Israel, thus, the Israelites, the children of Israel, so all Israelites are Hebrews, but Abraham and Isaac are not Israelites)

and you come to the time of King David and King Solomon, and the apostasy of King Solomon which has been discussed already in this thread.

1 Kings 11:9-13 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. So the Lord said to Solomon, “Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”

And so the unified nation of 12 tribes of Israel had a Civil War, and was divided into 2 nations.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Kingdoms_of_Israel_and_Judah_map_830.svg/502px-Kingdoms_of_Israel_and_Judah_map_830.svg.png

The northern 10 tribes retained the name Israel for their kingdom, with its capital the city of Samaria.

The tribe of David and Solomon was the tribe of Judah, and they were joined by the tribe of Benjamin to form the Kingdom of Judah with its capital at Jerusalem.

The southerners were Judahites, differentiated from the northern Israelites, even though the southerners were Israelites by blood.

Rewinding back...

When the Israelites had first left Egypt, before the conquest of the Promised Land began, God gave the Law to Moses, and he specified the terms of the covenant between himself and the Israelite people.

Leviticus 26

“‘Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God.

“‘Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.

“‘If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees their fruit. Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land.

“‘I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove wild beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country. You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.

“‘I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. You will still be eating last year’s harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

“‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

“‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit.

“‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

“‘If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.

“‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

“‘As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their ancestors’ sins they will waste away.

“‘But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors —their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.’”

Fast forward...

The Northern Kingdom became totally corrupt, and despite the warnings of the prophets they fell into pagan worship and witchcraft and stopped following the Mosaic Law, and so God did what he said he was going to do.

The tombstone of the Northern Kingdom reads: 931–722 BCE.

The Assyrian Empire defeated the northern 10 tribes, annexed the territory, and carried the people into captivity in Assyria.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Deportation_of_Jews_by_Assyrians.svg/600px-Deportation_of_Jews_by_Assyrians.svg.png

The Kingdom of Judah lasted longer, but they turned against God as well. The priests of YHWH began practicing pagan worship and occult witchcraft in Solomon's Temple, as shown to the prophet Ezekiel in a vision from God:

Ezekiel 8

In the sixth year, in the sixth month on the fifth day, while I was sitting in my house and the elders of Judah were sitting before me, the hand of the Sovereign Lord came on me there. I looked, and I saw a figure like that of a man. From what appeared to be his waist down he was like fire, and from there up his appearance was as bright as glowing metal. He stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. The Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and in visions of God he took me to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the idol that provokes to jealousy stood. And there before me was the glory of the God of Israel, as in the vision I had seen in the plain.

Then he said to me, “Son of man, look toward the north.” So I looked, and in the entrance north of the gate of the altar I saw this idol of jealousy.

And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see things that are even more detestable.”

Then he brought me to the entrance to the court. I looked, and I saw a hole in the wall. He said to me, “Son of man, now dig into the wall.” So I dug into the wall and saw a doorway there.

And he said to me, “Go in and see the wicked and detestable things they are doing here.” So I went in and looked, and I saw portrayed all over the walls all kinds of crawling things and unclean animals and all the idols of Israel. In front of them stood seventy elders of Israel, and Jaazaniah son of Shaphan was standing among them. Each had a censer in his hand, and a fragrant cloud of incense was rising.

He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of Israel are doing in the darkness, each at the shrine of his own idol? They say, ‘The Lord does not see us; the Lord has forsaken the land.’” Again, he said, “You will see them doing things that are even more detestable.”

Then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the Lord, and I saw women sitting there, mourning the god Tammuz. He said to me, “Do you see this, son of man? You will see things that are even more detestable than this.”

He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east.

He said to me, “Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the people of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually arouse my anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them.”

So when you hear that all religion is sun worship, or that Christianity is sun worship, don't believe it, the Bible clearly condemns it.

The Southern Kingdom lasted from 931–586 BCE.

The southerners were defeated by the Babylonians, and carried off into Babylon, and the Babylonians destroyed Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem.

During the time of the Southern Kingdom after the Northern Kingdom had been annexed by Assyria and during the Babylonian captivity of the South, some northerners remained in the land and intermixed with the Assyrians, these became the Samaritans. The Samaritans created their own religion that was very similar to that commanded in the Torah, and they set up their own central place of worship on Mount Gerizim instead of Jerusalem.

The exile of the southern Judahites, or Jews in Babylon lasted 70 years. The Persians conquered Babylon, and King Cyrus of Persia allowed the Jews to return to what was now being called Judea, and the northern land inhabited by the Samaritans was Samaria.

The Jews had a religious revival, as a majority turning away from the paganism and witchcraft that had led to their exile, and when they returned to Judea they rebuilt the Temple of Solomon.

But over the next centuries the Jewish religious leaders again became corrupt, Judea lost its independence and became a province of the Roman Empire, and it was in that atmosphere that the long prophesied Messiah came.

exu156
13-06-2012, 06:20 AM
Solomon is derived from the same root as "shalom"Linguistic scholars laugh at you. The same Solomon was recorded in the Tanakh centuries before any Hebrew/Israelite/Jew had any contact with the Romans, and Sanskrit is an Indo-European language that was being spoken by racist Aryan priests thousands of miles to the East and had little to no influence on the Semitic languages of Mesopotamia. Solomon is derived from the same root as "shalom", it means "peace".


Oops I missed this one.

Regarding Sanskrit:

Sir William Jones, speaking to the Asiatic Society in Calcutta (now Kolkata) on February 2, 1786, said:

"The Sanscrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, and more exquisitely refined than either, yet bearing to both of them a stronger affinity, both in the roots of verbs and the forms of grammar, than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong indeed, that no philologer could examine them all three, without believing them to have sprung from some common source, which, perhaps, no longer exists; there is a similar reason, though not quite so forcible, for supposing that both the Gothic and the Celtic, though blended with a very different idiom, had the same origin with the Sanscrit; and the old Persian might be added to the same family."

Derived from an earlier common source? Now what source would that be?

Sanskrit means - Senmai( Refined or modified) + Kuri or kirutham ( coded language). Which means basically this language was developed out of an older aboriginal language. But which one? We simply don't know.

Now regarding the Aryans. There are two thoughts - 1. Aryans might have come to India from Central Europe, OR 2. Aryans migrated from India to Europe. Again, these are just theories and thoughts. No proof what-so-ever. Aryans did NOT exist! Aryan Invasion is still a theory and has not been proven.

Now you state that Solomon "is derived from the same root as "shalom", it means "peace"." You are close enough. Actually the Hebrew name for Solomon is Shlomo, which comes from same root word (S-L-M) from which shalom is derived which means 'peace'. Indeed, as Solomon’s name testifies, during his reign peace was established. Now of course Solomon was not a real person but a symbol and the peace of his reign is a symbolic interpretation of a perfect kingdom. In Biblical Origins in Ancient Egypt the author tells us:

"Despite his great renown in the Bible, there isn't one shred of historical evidence that a King Solomon ever existed in the land of Israel. His fame is such that like other biblical names, it is a translation or substitution hiding his real identity."

But what real identity?

Some believe that Solomon is no other than pharaoh Ramses II. See for example here:

http://ancientegyptweblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/ramses-ii-was-king-solomon.html

On that link the author makes a very interesting observation:

"When we speak in modern times about Israel and the Jews, we have completely FORGOTTEN about Judah which in fact is the more important of the two historically because it existed prior to the name "Israel" ever appearing on any monument. The first appearance of the name "Israel" on any monument occurred on the Merenptah Stela of defeated enemies.

Idj-TauiJudah was Idj-taui (= Ju-dah)

IDJ-TAUI was the Nile Delta, including Per-Ramses (Pi-Ramesse), historically the home of the Hebrews in what we "today" call "Egypt", but which was actually the Nile Delta region called Judah (SUT viz. SHUT) in ancient days.

JUDAH in hieroglyphic writing is symbolized by the raised cobra hieroglyph, DJD.

Judah's geographical boundaries extended from Hebron (city of the unification of Judah and Israel)to the "Brook of Egypt", i.e. the Nile arm at Fayyumand to Beer Es Sebua = Bahr Yusuf - the ancient channel of the Nile into Fayyum.

It was at Fayyum that the last pyramids were built, two of them alone for Amenemhet III (one at Dashur and other at Hawara), with the end of this overdone pyramid-building period marked by the sudden abandonment of the worker-city Kahun. Our explanation is that the workers had had enough of Amenemhet III and that was the end of the pyramid-building age. No more pyramids were ever built. Amenemhet was thus the Pharaoh of Exodus."

So here we harken back to Egyptian events transformed into Biblical mythology. Now of course the Pharaoh was the incarnation of the sun upon earth. It is curious that the Biblical translators did not simply call Solomon 'Shlomo' which is the original Hebrew rending of his name but instead chose Sol-Om-On. The triune incarnation of the Sun/God upon earth.

Now the cacklers dismiss the notion that "Solomon" = Sol-Om-On. However, in their hilarity, they are missing the point: How did Shelomoh in Hebrew become Solomon in English? The Septuagint or Greek translation of the OT uses Salomon for Shelomoh, while the New Testament (Textus Receptus) utilizes Solomon. How did Shelomoh become Solomon in the New Testament, which certainly postdates the existence of Latin? Indeed, one of the Indo-European root-words for sun or "sol" may have been sáwel, some 6,000 years ago. So, it is possible that the Greek word Solomon did in fact represent three words from the sun.

Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages (page 175) tells us:

"The name Solomon may be divided into three syllables, SOL-OM-ON, symbolizing light, glory, and truth collectively and respectively. The Temple of Solomon is, therefore, first of all "the House of Everlasting Light," its earthly symbol being the temple of stone on the brow of Mount Moriah. According to the Mystery teachings, there are three Temples of Solomon--as there are three Grand Masters, three Witnesses, and three Tabernacles of the Transfiguration. The first temple is the Grand House of the Universe, in the midst of which sits the sun (SOL) upon his golden throne. The twelve signs of the zodiac as Fellow-Craftsmen gather around their shining lord. Three lights--the stellar, the solar, and the lunar--illuminate this Cosmic Temple. Accompanied by his retinue of planets, moons, and asteroids, this Divine King (SOLomon), whose glory no earthly monarch shall ever equal, passes in stately pomp down the avenues of space. Whereas CHiram represents the active physical light of the sun, SOLomon signifies its invisible but all-powerful, spiritual and intellectual effulgency."

Karl Andersen in his Astrology of the Old Testament tells us that:

"The sun in Egyptian is Sire, Osiris, in Sanskrit, Aum, in Chaldean and Ethiopic, On, in other languages, Sol. And whether we call him Sol-aum or On, or altogether Sol-om-on, it matters little, since his temple has never yet been made by hands and is eternal in the heavens. And though Hero's temple has been found and the remains of many others, no one has yet had the audacity to claim Sol-om-on's Temple as a discovery."

Godfrey Higgins tell us in work Anacalypsis:

"The 'great' king Solomon, so-called wisest man in the world, with his 1,000 wives and concubines, should today be considered an immoral criminal, were the story true. Obviously, this absurd tale is not historical. In fact, "sol-om-on" refers to the sun in three languages; "Sol" is Latin, "om" is Eastern, and "on" is Egyptian. "On" means both "suns" and "lord," reflected to "Salivahana," the Indian savior-god..."

Lloyd Graham in his brilliant Deceptions and Myths of the Bible reminds us:

"The Bible states in three different places that Solomon built the walls of Jerusalem, yet the historical Jerusalem was a walled city in the fourteenth century B.C., and the Jews as a distinct sect did not then exist . . . The statement that he began to build the temple some four hundred years after the Exodus from Egypt is also historically false. . . . The literature of the Jains of India tells this same story of their Solomon. Proverbs 22:17-23:11 is a nearly verbatim translation of the Egyptian book, The Wisdom of Amenemope, written about 1000 B.C."

John Hazelrigg in his work The Sun Book tells us:

"As an example of the allegorical method used in the elucidation of these mysteries, take, for example, the story of King Solomon, deemed a personage of some importance in Holy Writ, whose temple “builded not with hands, neither with sound of iron or metal tool.” Now, the word Solomon is a compound from three languages great in olden times—Latin, Sol or Solus, sun; Sanskrit, Aum or Om, heat; and Ethiopic, On, being—all pointing to solar principle in manifestation: Sol-om-on, the personification of wisdom, and described in his songs as of “brightness of the everlasting light, the unspotted mirror of the power of God, and the image of His goodness.” Solomon’s Temple meant nothing more nor less than the temple or vault of the heavens, of which Sol is king, or center . . ."

Solomon is the triune sun.

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 07:09 AM
Oops I missed this one.

Regarding Sanskrit:

Sir William Jones, speaking to the Asiatic Society in Calcutta (now Kolkata) on February 2, 1786, said:

"The Sanscrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, and more exquisitely refined than either, yet bearing to both of them a stronger affinity, both in the roots of verbs and the forms of grammar, than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong indeed, that no philologer could examine them all three, without believing them to have sprung from some common source, which, perhaps, no longer exists; there is a similar reason, though not quite so forcible, for supposing that both the Gothic and the Celtic, though blended with a very different idiom, had the same origin with the Sanscrit; and the old Persian might be added to the same family."

Derived from an earlier common source? Now what source would that be?

Sanskrit means - Senmai( Refined or modified) + Kuri or kirutham ( coded language). Which means basically this language was developed out of an older aboriginal language. But which one? We simply don't know.

The common source for Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin is the original Indo-European language. Sanskrit is of the Indo-European language family. The Indo-European language family is the language family of white people, the Indo-Europeans.

The Indo-European language family is completely different from the Semitic language family. Hebrew is a Semitic language along with Arabic. So when you combine Indo-European and Semitic words to make your silly "symbolic" compound words, you make yourself look like an absolute fool to anyone who knows the first thing about linguistic history.

It's real simple to understand.

Indo-European language range:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/914/800pxindoeuropeanisoglo.png

Now regarding the Aryans. There are two thoughts - 1. Aryans might have come to India from Central Europe, OR 2. Aryans migrated from India to Europe. Again, these are just theories and thoughts. No proof what-so-ever. Aryans did NOT exist! Aryan Invasion is still a theory and has not been proven.

Aryan Invasion is right here:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5629/400pxieexpansion.png

There's plenty of DNA proof that Aryans existed, and no, I am not afraid to go to the white supremacist sites when necessary for all the readily assembled ammo to expose the racism of Hinduism.

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml

A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans than are individuals from lower castes, whose genetic profiles are closer to those of Asians.


The study compared genetic markers—located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA—between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased.

The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/R1a-map.JPG

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26093-Indo-Aryans

http://sites.google.com/site/thelineagesofasia/_/rsrc/1251225923455/home/J2.png

Oh look, that lines up real well with the Indo-European language map.

Not that the DNA proof is needed, you just have to look at the faces of the Indians. Modern pagans hate to admit the existence of the Aryans because it reveals the racism at the heart of the Hindu caste system which is an inherent part of the pagan religion, the logical extension of the doctrines of karma and reincarnation, as Helena Blavatsky put it:

Thus will mankind, race after race, perform its appointed cycle-pilgrimage. Climates will, and have already begun, to change, each tropical year after the other dropping one sub-race, but only to beget another higher race on the ascending cycle; while a series of other less favoured groups — the failures of nature — will, like some individual men, vanish from the human family without even leaving a trace behind.

Such is the course of Nature under the sway of KARMIC LAW: of the ever present and the ever-becoming Nature.

India is racist to this day, with the Brahman Aryans on top, and skin-lightening creams flying off the store shelves.

Bollywood is full of Aryans.

Here is a modern Aryan by the name of Aishwarya Rai.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3514/bash01.jpg

Here's some Bollywood dude:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6734/aamirkhan13.jpg

Taking a trip south through India we get away from the land of the Aryans.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5189/abhishekiyer.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1210/3415507593a9c44f85c8.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/783/420refugees420x0.jpg

Now you state that Solomon "is derived from the same root as "shalom", it means "peace"." You are close enough. Actually the Hebrew name for Solomon is Shlomo, which comes from same root word (S-L-M) from which shalom is derived which means 'peace'. Indeed, as Solomon’s name testifies, during his reign peace was established. Now of course Solomon was not a real person but a symbol and the peace of his reign is a symbolic interpretation of a perfect kingdom. In Biblical Origins in Ancient Egypt the author tells us:

So you admit that Solomon is a Hebrew word that means "peace", and then you go right back to posting a bunch of unscientific bullcrap like this:

"The name Solomon may be divided into three syllables, SOL-OM-ON, symbolizing light, glory, and truth collectively and respectively.

exu156
13-06-2012, 08:01 AM
The common source for Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin is the original Indo-European language. Sanskrit is of the Indo-European language family. The Indo-European language family is the language family of white people, the Indo-Europeans.

The Indo-European language family is completely different from the Semitic language family. Hebrew is a Semitic language along with Arabic. So when you combine Indo-European and Semitic words to make your silly "symbolic" compound words, you make yourself look like an absolute fool to anyone who knows the first thing about linguistic history.

*cough cough*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages

It's real simple to understand.

Of course it is:

"It must be stated immediately that there is an unavoidable corollary of an Indigenist position. If the Indo-Aryan languages did not come from outside South Asia, this necessarily entails that India was the original homeland of all the other Indo-European languages." [Source: Bryant, Edwin (2001), The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate, Oxford University Press]

Aryan Invasion is right here:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5629/400pxieexpansion.png

Ah thanks I'm convinced now.

There's plenty of DNA proof that Aryans existed,

Oh is there now?

http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/textbook/Recent_Findings_Archaeogenetics.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-09-25/india/28107253_1_incidence-of-genetic-diseases-indians-tribes

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract

and no, I am not afraid to go to the white supremacist sites

How come that doesn't surprise me. :rolleyes:

Not that the DNA proof is needed

No of course not. Why would you want to waste precious time with DNA?

you just have to look at the faces of the Indians.

Wow you are so wise. Such sharp deduction skills.

India is racist to this day, with the Brahman Aryans on top, and skin-lightening creams flying off the store shelves.

And the West isn't?

Bollywood is full of Aryans.

Here is a modern Aryan by the name of Aishwarya Rai.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3514/bash01.jpg

Here's some Bollywood dude:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6734/aamirkhan13.jpg

Taking a trip south through India we get away from the land of the Aryans.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5189/abhishekiyer.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1210/3415507593a9c44f85c8.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/783/420refugees420x0.jpg

This is just hilarious, thanks for the laughs.

The original Aryan Invasion Theory was largely a product of eighteenth and nineteenth century Orientalist scholarship, which was true of most historical research done at that period.

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/aryan_invasion_theory.htm

However:

"Based on examination of skeletal remains, no evidence of massive migration has been found. The ancient Harappans were not markedly different from modern populations in Northwestern India and present-day Pakistan."

Furthermore:

"there is no evidence of demographic disruptions in the north-western sector of the Subcontinent during and immediately after the decline of the Harappan culture. If Vedic Aryans were a biological entity represented by the skeletons from Timargarha, then their biological features of cranial and dental anatomy were not distinct to a marked degree from what we encountered in the ancient Harappans." [Source: Erdosy, George, ed. (1995), The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia: Language, Material Culture and Ethnicity]

and

"there was an overlap between Late Harappan and post-Harappan communities...with no biological evidence for major new populations." [Source: Bryant, Edwin (2001), The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate, Oxford University Press,)]

and

"The data provide no support for any model of massive migration and gene flow between the oases of Bactria and the Indus Valley. Rather, patterns of phonetic affinity best conform to a pattern of long-standing, but low-level bidirectional mutual exchange." [Source: Hemphill 1998 "Biological Affinities and Adaptations of Bronze Age Bactrians: III. An initial craniometric assessment", American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 106, 329-348.; Hemphill 1999]

and

"Current archaeological data do not support the existence of an Indo-Aryan or European invasion into South Asia any time in the pre- or protohistoric periods. Instead, it is possible to document archaeologically a series of cultural changes reflecting indigenous cultural developments from prehistoric to historic periods" [Source: Jim Shaffer, The Indo-Aryan Invasions : Cultural Myth and Archaeological Reality in John R Lukacs (ed.) The People of South Asia: The Biological Anthropology of India, Pakistan and Nepal, New York,1984, Plenum Press, pp. 77-88.]

and

"The vast majority of professional archaeologists I interviewed in India insisted that there was no convincing archaeological evidence whatsoever to support any claims of external Indo-Aryan origins. This is part of a wider trend: archaeologists working outside of South Asia are voicing similar views." [Source: Bryant, Edwin (2001), The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate, Oxford University Press]

and

"It is highly improbable that the Indo-Aryans of Western Asia migrated eastwards, for example with the collapse of the Mitanni, and wandered into India, since there is not a shred of evidence — for example, names of non-Indic deities, personal names, loan words — that the Indo-Aryans of India ever had any contacts with their west Asian neighbours. The reverse possibility, that a small group broke off and wandered from India into Western Asia is readily dismissed as an improbably long migration, again without the least bit of evidence." [Source: Mallory, J.P. (1989), In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology, and Myth, London: Thames & Hudson]

and

"But you may be surprised to learn that most archaeologists now reject this invasion or migration theory, as they cannot find the slightest trace of it on the ground, and it is unthinkable that the supposed Aryans could have conquered most of India and imposed on it their Vedic culture without leaving any physical evidence of any sort. Even respected archaeologists of the old school of thought, such as Raymond and Bridget Allchin, now admit that the arrival of Indo-Aryans in Northwest India is “scarcely attested in the archaeological record, presumably because their material culture and life-style were already virtually indistinguishable from those of the existing population.”[14] We are very far from the bloody invasion and cultural war envisaged by Max Müller and other nineteenth-century scholars." [Source: Michele Danino The Indus-Sarasvati Civilization and its Bearing on the Aryan Question http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/indus.html ]

and

"Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity [...]. What the biological data demonstrate is that no exotic races are apparent from laboratory studies of human remains excavated from any archaeological sites [...]. All prehistoric human remains recovered thus far from the Indian subcontinent are phenotypically identifiable as ancient South Asians. [...] In short, there is no evidence of demographic disruptions in the north-western sector of the subcontinent during and immediately after the decline of the Harappan culture." [Source: Kenneth A. R. Kennedy, "Have Aryans been identified in the prehistoric skeletal record from South Asia?" in The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia, ed. George Erdosy (Berlin & New York : Walter de Gruyter, 1995), p. 60 & 54]

and

"Race as it was used in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries has been totally discredited as a useful concept in human biology. [...] There is no reason to believe today that there ever was an Aryan race that spoke Indo-European languages and was possessed with a coherent and well-defined set of Aryan or Indo-European cultural features." [Source: Possehl, Gregory L., The Indus Age : The Writing System (New Delhi : Oxford & IBH, 1996)]

and

http://www.indiaforum.org/india/hinduism/aryan/index.html

enjoy.

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 09:01 AM
*cough cough*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages

Of course it is:

"It must be stated immediately that there is an unavoidable corollary of an Indigenist position. If the Indo-Aryan languages did not come from outside South Asia, this necessarily entails that India was the original homeland of all the other Indo-European languages." [Source: Bryant, Edwin (2001), The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate, Oxford University Press]

Ah thanks I'm convinced now.


There is a whole cottage industry in India devoted to disproving Aryan Invasion for religious and political reasons.

Even though white Aryans are the upper-castes in Northern India, even though Bollywood is nothing but upper-caste Aryans, even though the DNA has now proven that the upper-caste Aryans are indeed much more closely related to Europeans than are the low-castes that are treated like dirt...

because of the Hindu religion no one wants to face the truth.

The racist caste system is at the heart of Hinduism, it has been that way for thousands of years.

The caste system is South African apartheid, except even worse because it is codified into religion.

Over thousands of years the Aryans and Dravidians mixed anyway, but Bollywood shows that they didn't all mix.

The Indo-European language map, and the DNA evidence clearly show the heart of the Indo-European range is the Caucasus, they spread out from there.

They didn't spread out from India, India is the farthest extent of their range.

Simple logic, proven by all available evidence, denied because the children of darkness in India and the West don't want to face the truth.

You worship nature then you worship racism.

Period.

Evolution is as Darwin said it is, micro-evolution anyway.

On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

Hitler chose the Hindu swastika for a very obvious reason.

Anyway, the Harappan culture might very well have declined for other reasons, and then the Aryans moved in, in stages over hundreds of years. Aryan Invasion does not mean one massive army of Aryans flooding into India all at once.

exu156
13-06-2012, 09:34 AM
There is a whole cottage industry in India devoted to disproving Aryan Invasion for religious and political reasons.

Even though white Aryans are the upper-castes in Northern India, even though Bollywood is nothing but upper-caste Aryans, even though the DNA has now proven that the upper-caste Aryans are indeed much more closely related to Europeans than are the low-castes that are treated like dirt...

It has proven nothing of the sort.

because of the Hindu religion no one wants to face the truth.

Would that be like how you don't want to face the truth that your fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity is utterly destructive?

The racist caste system is at the heart of Hinduism, it has been that way for thousands of years.

Yes just like the church held us back for over a thousand years.

The caste system is South African apartheid, except even worse because it is codified into religion.

Yes and South Africa was/is a Christian nation. Please don't get started on South Africa. I lived there for some years and am well aware of how Christians supported apartheid.

Over thousands of years the Aryans and Dravidians mixed anyway, but Bollywood shows that they didn't all mix.

More great comedy.

The Indo-European language map, and the DNA evidence clearly show the heart of the Indo-European range is the Caucasus, they spread out from there.

It does nothing of the sort.

Simple logic, proven by all available evidence, denied because the children of darkness in India and the West don't want to face the truth.

Ah of course, the children of darkness. Great argument.

You worship nature then you worship racism.

Period.

Do I sense some despair in your argument?

Hitler chose the Hindu swastika for a very obvious reason.

Yes, delusion maybe?

Anyway, the Harappan culture might very well have declined for other reasons, and then the Aryans moved in, in stages over hundreds of years. Aryan Invasion does not mean one massive army of Aryans flooding into India all at once.

And the goal posts keep shifting.

You will enjoy this:
http://voi.org/books/ait/

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 10:15 AM
It has proven nothing of the sort.

It certainly has been proven, and again, it only takes a glance at Aishwarya Rai to know the truth, you don't have to give her a DNA test to know she could pass for a European.

Would that be like how you don't want to face the truth that your fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity is utterly destructive?

It's not destructive to anyone, turn the other cheek, do good to them who persecute you, it just makes pagan occultists mad because they don't like to hear the truth that they are headed to the fire.

Yes and South Africa was/is a Christian nation. Please don't get started on South Africa. I lived there for some years and am well aware of how Christians supported apartheid.

And where is apartheid commanded by Jesus? Parable of the Good Samaritan is anti-racist. Whoops. Having read many of the Freemason Wilbur Smith's novels, along with plenty of regular history research, I have a good grasp of South Africa.

Do I sense some despair in your argument?

I am not despairing, I have faith this is all temporary.

And the goal posts keep shifting.

The invasion of the Americas by Indo-Europeans didn't happen all at once, it took centuries, and that was with much higher tech than the ancient Aryans had. You assume just by the word invasion that it means some massive D-Day event, which is silly.

Now that we have gotten onto discussing Hinduism, I think I will repost the Gospel of Cannibal Jim Bob.

Jim Bob 6:57 And Jesus, after having communicated the Gnostic Kabbalist Secret Doctrine of reaching inner divinity through balance with evil to the 12, told them "I'm hungry, it's time to teach you guys a lesson".

6:58 The Son of God, who had just made it abundantly clear to the 12 that he was only the latest enlightened Son of God out of many, and their entire history of Jewish culture was wrong in preaching external Divinity, told them

6:59 "After my long journeys in India, studying under many a racist Hindu Brahman and having great fun feeding the dirty rats and monkeys in their temples and kicking many a dirty black-skinned Untouchable Dalit who was cleaning up crap in the street,

6:60 "I came across a temple to the goddess Kali, you know, the one who wears all those severed heads around her neck, and I inquired of the head Brahman inside, a man who had such delightfully light-skinned Aryan features compared to the dirty low-caste human trash outside who were not allowed to enter this holy temple due to their bad karma,

6:61 "and I asked of this great Aryan guru, who was surely just as much a Son of God as I am and all of you are, 'what is the secret to enlightenment?'

6:62 "The Hindu guru said, 'the universe is dualist and enlightenment is found in the balance of opposing forces, good is evil and evil is good'

6:63 "I said, 'that sounds about right, so what kind of ritual should I perform to prove my enlightenment?' And at that the Aryan Master did this:"

6:64 Then Jesus pulled out a tourniquet and tied it around his arm, and then he pulled out a sword and chopped off his hand, and through an amazing pain tolerance that could only have been possible through true enlightenment, he gritted his teeth while he chopped his hand into pieces.

6:65 Then he said, "the first one of you 12 Sons of God who I give a steaming chunk of my flesh to eat is going to betray me, but that's okay because I told Judas yesterday that he needs to betray me, and to write the Gospel of Judas about it later"

6:66 So Jesus handed Judas a steaming chunk of his hand, and Judas quickly gulped it down and left to go get his 30 pieces of silver.

6:67 Then Jesus distributed the other chunks of flesh to the other Sons of God, and then loosened his tourniquet and had them drink some of his blood, and said, "In the future after I have left to go to the Great White Lodge, I want you guys to do the same in remembrance of me." He then took the leftovers and finished them himself.

6:68 After having taken a short nap to digest his meal, Jesus concentrated his Chi Kundalini power that he had learned to harness in India into a powerful healing spell, and he regenerated his hand, because he had to carry a cross the next day.

exu156
13-06-2012, 11:53 AM
It certainly has been proven, and again, it only takes a glance at Aishwarya Rai to know the truth, you don't have to give her a DNA test to know she could pass for a European.

Thanks for the comedy again.

It's not destructive to anyone, turn the other cheek, do good to them who persecute you,

Oh is that all it is. And there I was thinking bigotry, intolerance, homophobia, torture, witch burnings and eventual genocide.

And where is apartheid commanded by Jesus? Parable of the Good Samaritan is anti-racist. Whoops. Having read many of the Freemason Wilbur Smith's novels, along with plenty of regular history research, I have a good grasp of South Africa.

The Bible has no racism? The whole concept of a 'chosen people' is giving us trouble even today.

The invasion of the Americas by Indo-Europeans didn't happen all at once, it took centuries, and that was with much higher tech than the ancient Aryans had. You assume just by the word invasion that it means some massive D-Day event, which is silly.

Where did I say it was a D Day like event? I love these broad statements which presume knowledge but again remains totally unsupported.

Now that we have gotten onto discussing Hinduism, I think I will repost the Gospel of Cannibal Jim Bob.

Jim Bob 6:57 And Jesus, after having communicated the Gnostic Kabbalist Secret Doctrine of reaching inner divinity through balance with evil to the 12, told them "I'm hungry, it's time to teach you guys a lesson".

6:58 The Son of God, who had just made it abundantly clear to the 12 that he was only the latest enlightened Son of God out of many, and their entire history of Jewish culture was wrong in preaching external Divinity, told them

6:59 "After my long journeys in India, studying under many a racist Hindu Brahman and having great fun feeding the dirty rats and monkeys in their temples and kicking many a dirty black-skinned Untouchable Dalit who was cleaning up crap in the street,

6:60 "I came across a temple to the goddess Kali, you know, the one who wears all those severed heads around her neck, and I inquired of the head Brahman inside, a man who had such delightfully light-skinned Aryan features compared to the dirty low-caste human trash outside who were not allowed to enter this holy temple due to their bad karma,

6:61 "and I asked of this great Aryan guru, who was surely just as much a Son of God as I am and all of you are, 'what is the secret to enlightenment?'

6:62 "The Hindu guru said, 'the universe is dualist and enlightenment is found in the balance of opposing forces, good is evil and evil is good'

6:63 "I said, 'that sounds about right, so what kind of ritual should I perform to prove my enlightenment?' And at that the Aryan Master did this:"

6:64 Then Jesus pulled out a tourniquet and tied it around his arm, and then he pulled out a sword and chopped off his hand, and through an amazing pain tolerance that could only have been possible through true enlightenment, he gritted his teeth while he chopped his hand into pieces.

6:65 Then he said, "the first one of you 12 Sons of God who I give a steaming chunk of my flesh to eat is going to betray me, but that's okay because I told Judas yesterday that he needs to betray me, and to write the Gospel of Judas about it later"

6:66 So Jesus handed Judas a steaming chunk of his hand, and Judas quickly gulped it down and left to go get his 30 pieces of silver.

6:67 Then Jesus distributed the other chunks of flesh to the other Sons of God, and then loosened his tourniquet and had them drink some of his blood, and said, "In the future after I have left to go to the Great White Lodge, I want you guys to do the same in remembrance of me." He then took the leftovers and finished them himself.

6:68 After having taken a short nap to digest his meal, Jesus concentrated his Chi Kundalini power that he had learned to harness in India into a powerful healing spell, and he regenerated his hand, because he had to carry a cross the next day.

Now all you have to do when you read your Bible is that every time you find the word Jesus simply replace it with Phallus. It will make much more sense then :D

cramhankie
13-06-2012, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the comedy again.

It's really not funny at all.

India: The Dalit Story - YouTube

Unreported world india - "the broken people" part 1/3 - YouTube

Oh is that all it is. And there I was thinking bigotry, intolerance, homophobia, torture, witch burnings and eventual genocide.

I am indeed an anti-racist bigot, intolerant of racist pagan Hinduism. Not that I will attempt to kill or torture or burn any Aryan Brahman witches.

Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

The Bible has no racism? The whole concept of a 'chosen people' is giving us trouble even today.

That's what I've been discussing in this thread as of late, and I'm not done yet.

The truth about modern Israel is clearly stated in the Bible, but you will never hear it from the corrupt mainstream "fundamentalist" American Christians, the war-mongering Zionist Christians who you correctly posted against.

Romans 9:22-28 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory —

even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”

cramhankie
15-06-2012, 02:20 AM
In the koran there are lots of passages reffering to the Children of Israel.

Almost always they seem to referenced as almost seperate to Jews, Christians and Sabians. They have an almost exalted status.

What are the Children of Israel?

And why would God prefer them over the rest?

We left Israel and took a detour into India, but it is a detour that I am glad we took, because now we are going to talk some more about racism.

If you read my previous posts about Israel, then you should now understand what the technical difference is between an Israelite and a Jew, 2,000 years ago.

A Jew was descended from the Israelite tribes of Judah and Benjamin, was living in the Roman province of Judea, and was following the religion of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob(Israel), and Moses.

Or at least they were following that true Abrahamic religion in theory, on the surface, if not in actual practice.

And that is where it gets complicated, and that is why Mohammed preached a positive view of the Israelites, and a negative view of the Jews...just as Jesus did.

The issue here is not any racial difference between the Jews and the children of Israel, because the Jews were indeed Israelites themselves.

The distinction being made is a spiritual distinction, because Jesus said to a group of Jews:

John 8:31-59 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

There are doctrines to be learned here.

1. Jesus, who was a Jew, was not racist, he told these Jews that even though they were physical descendants of Abraham, they were spiritual children of Satan.

2. Jesus said that he existed before Abraham was born, and said I AM, which is what God told Moses his name is, I AM, which means Jesus equated himself with God.

Jesus first announced publicly to a group of Jews that he was the Messiah, the fulfillment of the prophecies, in Luke 4. The reaction of the Jews is important to understand.

Luke 4:14-30 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”

“Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

What Jesus did here is he directly attacked the racism of the Jews. Most of the Jews had a racial superiority complex since they were the "Chosen People". Jesus went right to their own Scriptures, their own Bible, and showed them that the prophets Elijah and Elisha, who were Israelites, were sent by God to help certain Gentiles instead of Israelites, at the same time that many Israelites were suffering, so God had mercy on those Gentiles instead of the Israelites who were being corrupt sinners.

This offended the Jews deeply, because it offended their racist ego. They thought they were better than everyone else and God only cared about them, and all the Gentiles were trash that God hated.

These racist jerks got so angry that they tried to kill Jesus after he told them the truth and preached some racial equality under God.

What needs to be understood here, is that YHWH, the God of Israel, who Jesus claimed to be equal to, is not racist.

He wasn't racist in the Old Testament.

In the Exodus, after God had brought horrible plagues on Egypt, after Pharoah finally let the Israelites go free after the last plague, what happened?

Exodus 12:31-41 During the night Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, “Up! Leave my people, you and the Israelites! Go, worship the Lord as you have requested. Take your flocks and herds, as you have said, and go. And also bless me.”

The Egyptians urged the people to hurry and leave the country. “For otherwise,” they said, “we will all die!” So the people took their dough before the yeast was added, and carried it on their shoulders in kneading troughs wrapped in clothing. The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. 36 The Lord had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians.

The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Sukkoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds. With the dough the Israelites had brought from Egypt, they baked loaves of unleavened bread. The dough was without yeast because they had been driven out of Egypt and did not have time to prepare food for themselves.

Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the Lord’s divisions left Egypt.

Many other people left Egypt with the Israelites. It doesn't say exactly who they were, but we know the Egyptians had many other slaves, so those many other people could have been slaves from many other race/nationalities, and certainly some of those many other people were Egyptians who had seen that their false gods were powerless next to the mighty power of YHWH, and decided to follow YHWH's people out of Egypt, to BECOME one of YHWH's people.

The Israelites at that time were not acting like racist jerks, they accepted all those other people that came with them, and so did YHWH, as it is written: ALL the Lord's divisions left Egypt.

Later Jesus told the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

http://www.art4god.com/images/print/gsam.jpg

Luke 10:25-37 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

If you will remember, the Samaritans were Assyrian/Northern Israelite half breeds who were not following the same religion as the Jews. The Samaritans were worshiping on Mount Gerizim, instead of in Jerusalem at the Temple of YHWH.

The racist jerk Jews who thought they were better than everyone else really hated the Samaritans. They were treated like crap by the Jews, racially discriminated against. Jesus said that the Samaritan who helped the injured man was following the Law of God, and not the Levite(Jewish priest) who walked right on by the injured man because he was a racist jerk.

This Parable was meant by Jesus to make it crystal clear to the Jews that he was preaching against racism. That man asked Jesus "who is my neighbor", and Jesus could have said "your neighbor is your fellow Jew", but he said EVERYONE is your neighbor, even the most hated and despised race.

With all that said, Believenothing's recent post deserves it's place right here.

Judaism, Brainwashing, and Mind Control

In Judaism, "god" makes a covenant with Jacob/Israel whose people become a chosen people as a result. "God" does not make a covenant with the other brother or his people. You better believe this 'chosen oneness' is going to go to their head and cause arrogance. The other people are going to be jealous because they are not chosen. How can you expect peace when this forms the basic foundation for all the Abrahamic religions?

Judaism is one of the three 'forks' of Abrahamic religions, the other two being Christianity and Islam. Even though it is considered one of the major forks, it has the lowest number of followers. For example, Mormonism is considered a minor sect or 'fork' from Christianity yet has more followers than Judaism.

Judaism claims to be the oldest of the three 'major' Abrahamic religions which isn't really true. All three share the same foundation which was oral before it was ever first written 2,000 years ago as the Torah and other related scrolls. The foundation was less a religion and more an old world system of law, antiquated by modern civilization but nonetheless it still exists in different forms today.

Christianity can be thought of as a replacement theology for Old World Abrahamism that was mostly developed in the 3rd to 4th century AD. Old World Abrahamism had become corrupted by man and used politically to control, specifically the Pharisees who it specifically criticizes as abusing the power of the people.

Judaism was developed in Babylon and also began orally, following the Pharisee traditions and interpretation of Torah. These interpretations were further developed and commit to paper in the 6th century AD. They would continue to be developed as the Talmud for the next 1,000 years. This is how Rabbinic Judaism was born.

Islam is also based on the Torah along with Muhammad's teaching and was developed in the 7th century AD.

As you can see, they didn't exactly develop that far apart from each other. All three have been corrupted and abused politically. Various related and unrelated sects claim to be the real deal and there have been various forks since that time. I'm mainly going to concentrate on Judaism, for in Judaism's most orthodox form it is the most vile, hateful, and extremist Abrahamic theology. It has an influence on the unorthodox and even the atheist, don't think for a moment that it does not.

A Jew is basically anybody who wants to call themselves a Jew, but originally they were an devotee of Judaism. In the Christian bible, a Jew is from Judea. In Islam, a distinction is made between Jews (negative) and Israelites (positive), the latter they do consider to be 'chosen people' but not the Jews despite the Jewish claim of chosenness. There are several covenants in the bible but this one has become canon because the Jews control the discourse these days.

There are good Jews, but a lot of them (most of them) are brainwashed by hate. There are Zionist Jews, Israel supporting Jews, tribal non-assimilating Jews, criminal atheist Jews, usury-practicing Jews, psychopathic Jews (like many Jewish leaders), etc. There isn't much left. During the 19th century with the Zionist movement, Jews went after good Jews like Karaites (who preferred being called Israelites and not Jews) and turned most of them into Zionist Jews.

Today, most Jews are Zionist and most of them live in Israel. Even if they aren't religious, many believe the mythology is their history.

Jewish leaders are psychopaths, as are many religious leaders including Christianity and Islam. That's why there are so many pedophiles in the Catholic Church. Religion was used to dominate people politically until the separating of church and state, but even now it causes people to hate each other, kill each other, and warmonger to fulfill false prophecy.

The Jewish religion brainwashes the people full of hate and teaches them mind control techniques to gain the upper hand. This is called pilpul:

Quote: Pilpul is the Talmudic term used to describe a rhetorical process that the Sages used to formulate their legal decisions. The word is used as a verb: one engages in the process of pilpul in order to formulate a legal point. It marks the process of understanding legal ideas, texts, and interpretations. It is a catch-all term that in English is translated as "Casuistry."

This is a technique used to win an argument or case based on deception. A Jew uses this tactic to justify why there are double standards in Israel and why they have stolen and demonized the indigenous people despite the fact that the Jews are responsible for the problems there.

It is similar to treating a case as a closed system and applying a math formula so that you can't be proven right and you can't be proven wrong. This is how the deceptive Jews gain the upper hand. They are taught these techniques from child birth.

If you have Netflix, I suggest watching this documentary about 'antisemitism' made by an Israeli called Defamation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation_(film)

Not only does it prove how much of a joke antisemitism is and how it doesn't exist, it also shows Israeli children being brainwashed by Zionist leaders. The kids are brought to Poland to visit Auschwitz where they reinforce the extermination myth. When elderly Polish men being friendly try to talk to the girls, the leaders tell the girls that the men are making Jew-hating remarks.

Zionist camps teach young Jews that Zionism and Judaism are inseparable, Jews are only safe in Israel, and the cost of losing Israel even symbolically or demographically is a Holocaust. Jews are also brainwashed with a persecution complex. They are told they are a hated people, they are told the holocaust lies, they are told about historical persecutions (some of them myth, some of them were ironically Gnostics and Christians, not even Jews). They celebrate biblical holidays that celebrate death and genocide based on myths like Purim and Passover.

They are encouraged to cheat non-Jews via debt and usury and on Yom Kippur they can cleanse their lie with prayer.

Jewish schools like Harvard teach Jews how to screw over non-Jews even more.

Jews are taught to use rhetorical questions as a persuasive message. To phrase things with simplicity and live in a closed system of assumptions and premises, and depend on a faulty interpretation of the rules of that system. Like a math formula.

It gets worse in politics and think tanks and I haven't even scratched the surface with Zionism, Israel, etc.

All religions do this to a degree, but Zionism and Jewish nationalism/tribalism has made it so much worse and concentrated among Jews. This is why they seem to be 'intelligent'. They are not. They are just masters at deception. Psychopathic leaders prefer them and like-minded brainwashed people to control the world with their lies

This is really great.

I agree with almost everything stated in the entire post.

Judaism claims to be the oldest of the three 'major' Abrahamic religions which isn't really true. All three share the same foundation which was oral before it was ever first written 2,000 years ago as the Torah and other related scrolls. The foundation was less a religion and more an old world system of law, antiquated by modern civilization but nonetheless it still exists in different forms today.

Christianity can be thought of as a replacement theology for Old World Abrahamism that was mostly developed in the 3rd to 4th century AD. Old World Abrahamism had become corrupted by man and used politically to control, specifically the Pharisees who it specifically criticizes as abusing the power of the people.

Judaism was developed in Babylon and also began orally, following the Pharisee traditions and interpretation of Torah. These interpretations were further developed and commit to paper in the 6th century AD. They would continue to be developed as the Talmud for the next 1,000 years. This is how Rabbinic Judaism was born.

I am genuinely impressed with your enlightened discernment of the difference between what you term Old World Abrahamism and Talmudic Judaism, and the origin of Talmudism in Babylon (where not coincidentally the Jewish religious leaders also picked up the Babylonian pagan witchcraft that became Kabbalah and influenced Talmudism)

Of course you probably understand that I believe Christianity not to be a completely separate replacement for Old World Abrahamism, orthodox Christianity IS Old World Abrahamism.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad. -- Jesus

Old Covenant, New Covenant, same faith.

sandwarrior
16-06-2012, 02:48 PM
We left Israel and took a detour into India, but it is a detour that I am glad we took, because now we are going to talk some more about racism.

If you read my previous posts about Israel, then you should now understand what the technical difference is between an Israelite and a Jew, 2,000 years ago.

Old Covenant, New Covenant, same faith.

Thank you for your very in depth reply.

Very interesting. :)

cramhankie
16-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Thank you for your very in depth reply.

Very interesting. :)

Thank you for inspiring me to write it all. :)

I will be adding more here about Judaism and Islam in the future.

believenothing
17-06-2012, 03:37 AM
Cramhankie, what do you think of this:

http://newsfromatlantis.blogspot.com/2012/02/old-testament-compiltaion-of-jewish.html

You can ignore the Hammurabi part if you are one of those people who believe scripture is Infallible. I don't agree with all of it, but it basically says there is no such thing as "Abrahamic religion" and that a third party is trying to reconcile different theologies. I never really thought about that, but it is what some of these 'illuminist' folks want. Mormonism is considered a sect of Christianity. But it is a totally separate theology, that makes no sense. That's just one example.

cramhankie
18-06-2012, 05:16 PM
Cramhankie, what do you think of this:

http://newsfromatlantis.blogspot.com/2012/02/old-testament-compiltaion-of-jewish.html

You can ignore the Hammurabi part if you are one of those people who believe scripture is Infallible. I don't agree with all of it, but it basically says there is no such thing as "Abrahamic religion" and that a third party is trying to reconcile different theologies. I never really thought about that, but it is what some of these 'illuminist' folks want. Mormonism is considered a sect of Christianity. But it is a totally separate theology, that makes no sense. That's just one example.

I will just respond to the whole article.

The Old Testament - a compiltaion of Jewish lies and stolen truths.

Faith can be a source of comfort, but it can also be a trap. Schisms within religions are often presented as acts of sincere devotion which help the faithful to reach a purer understanding of the Religion, and thus to achieve a closer relationship with God. As noble as this may sound, the tinkering of dogma often has more to do with increasing the power of the preacher than spiritually enriching the follower.

If there is One Perfect Righteous Dogma/Truth from God, then any tinkering with that at all is going to be done for an evil selfish reason.

In every religion, schisms have occurred, and in every case this has led to bloodshed, with people being murdered and brutalised in the name of some deity or other. In every case, the devotees have been sure that they, and only they, are following the right path, and that everyone else is a heretic. This division has been engineered to cause the maximum disruption within each religion, and to implant doubt in the mind of the individual, with the objective to break the individual away from any spiritual faith, into absolute materialism.

Indeed.

If there is One Truth, there can only be One True Religion, and so any tinkering with that Truth will cause a schism that breaks off a Lie, and then the Lies can schism and break off into more Lies. The wars of religions are wars of Lie against Lie, which makes sense. The elites on both sides of most any conflict lie to their publics to drum up support. All the lies and violence results from selfish people who want to be their own gods lying to other people to mind control them.

In tandem with the schismatic assault on religion is the path of œcumenicalism. This insidious weapon travels a different route towards uniform internationalism, but has the same desired end; to break the faithful away from any independent spiritual direction and herd them into a carefully prepared dead-end which benefits only those in power.

Indeed. Problem-reaction-solution, right? Spin off a million different Lies so everyone is blindly fighting each other, and then offer them a solution:

One Big Lie.

FREEMASONRY AND THE NEW AGE WORLD RELIGION

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry/freemasonry-and-the-new-age-religion

Œcumenicalism is presented as a coming together of all who have faith. Its advocates argue that they are attempting to reconcile differing factions who follow the same God, but differ only in the minutiæ of their devotions. Thus, it is argued that Christians can be reconciled with Unitarians who reject the Holy Trinity, and that Catholics can freely worship alongside Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, and any other grouping which has even the faintest claim to being Christian. Those who advocate adultery and murder, sorry, divorce and abortion, are seen as brothers and sisters in Christ. Something is clearly very wrong with those who can reconcile the irreconcilable.

Indeed. And so how idiotic is the Masonic doctrine of "universality"?

http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/freemasons-secrets.html

Freemasons Secrets: Spiritual Universality Begins in the Holy Books

Our Creator, no matter what you call Him within your own religious beliefs...God, G_d, Jehovah, the Supreme Architect, the Almighty, the Great I Am, etc., loves all his children...each of which He created and chose to place on earth.

Freemasons are taught to respect our Creator's choices and the men, from all religions, who, just like themselves, attempt to live a life which is acceptable to the Almighty.

In everyday life, however, the word "universality" can sometimes become bogged down by man's prejudices against other religions, countries, and the men within them. Freemasonry's universality removes much of this prejudice and allows each man to become a better man.[pursue self-divinity --CH]

Q: How will I become a better man within Freemasonry?

A: You are never truly alone. You have a network of brothers who want the
best for you, just as you want the best for each of them.

While the lodge room Is off limits to non-Freemasons while meetings are In session, non-Freemasons might be very surprised to find that lodge is held in a room with an altar at its center which contains one or more Holy Books such as the Bible, the Koran, the Veda, the Tanakh, Torah, and others.

Why might the altar contain more than one of these books? The reason is because Freemasonry's universality extends to religion, race, age, and language. Freemasonry believes that each man's personal religious belief is the foundation necessary in order to make him a better man.[pursue self-divinity -- CH]

The œcumenical fanatics go beyond Christianity; they seek to unify all religions. Using the nonsense term, the ‘Abrahamic Faiths’, it is argued that Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God and really are only divided on petty differences. The likes of the anti-Pope, Ratzinger, and the other architects of Vatican II who push this, know that what they advocate is a shame-faced lie. The argument is that Islam differs from Christianity only insofar as the figures Mohammed and Jesus are concerned, with Islam recognising Jesus as a prophet but not as God; making Islam basically Unitarianism with Mohammed added on. These two faiths then differ from their alleged parent, Judaism, only by the Christian faith continuing the ‘Abrahamic faith’ with the addition of Jesus, and in Islam’s case, with Mohammed. This linear argument is wilfully and mischievously dishonest.

Indeed. Which is why I told the evil witch Passerbye999 that he has rejected sanity, after he posted this:

Yes Chistianity and Judiasm are the only two paths to God that I personaly see because of personal experience mainly. I was going to convert to Judiasm but never went all the way though I did spend two years studying with a Rabbi. I was born a Christian and used to Jump for Jesus as a child. I view Jesus as my Teacher my Master I do not believe he is God but I do believe in him and his miracles including the resurrection but I view it differently. Again experience maintains my belief.

Fundies are actually few in number so I just enjoy annoying them for they annoy me. Pentacostal churches are quite cool you would enjoy them though some are way out there. When I found out about the release of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi find and after watching documenteries on the subject and my favorite show The Naked Archeologist with Simcha Jacobovici I began to change my beliefs to what I found was truth.

I had rejected Paul many years before through my studies. I find him to be a horrible little man. With a huge god complex. He beleived himself to be holier than the disciples all from a psychotic episode in the desert.

The witch cannot comprehend that Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but of course he despises the Apostle Paul. He also adds in lots of Eastern mysticism to his jumbled mess of demon-fueled insanity.

The relationship between Christianity and Islam is a complicated one. Islam does accept Jesus as prophet, but focuses more heavily on the Old Testament than the New Testament, thus turning away from the faith of forgiveness which Christians hold dear, and following the path of vengeance which Jesus spoke against. Islam has been described as an attempt to confuse Judaism and Christianity, and could ironically be accurately described as an early attempt at Judæo-Christianity; with the purpose to undermine Christianity and replace it with a subservient version of Judaism for the Goyim. The constant reinterpretation and cross referencing of Islam is similar to the method of Talmudism, from which many of the works attributed to Mohammed stem.

Islam is indeed an attempt to confuse Christianity and Judaism. He sure did turn from the forgiveness of Jesus, the New Covenant, and turned back to the Old Testament "eye for an eye".

Remember the last plague on Egypt? The Israelites were to sacrifice a lamb and put its blood on their doorpost so that the angel of death would pass over them as the all the firstborn of Egypt were killed.

The blood atonement sacrifice--the foundation of the Mosaic Law, absolutely central to the Israelite/Jewish religion as it is written in the Torah.

It is barely mentioned in Islam.

Mohammed claimed that the Jews and Christians had all become corrupt and their Scriptures had been corrupted, and that he was restoring the true religion of Abraham.

He left out the necessity for blood sacrifice.

The Qur'an refers to the Exodus story:

Sura 7: 133 "So We sent (plagues) on them wholesale Death [Toofan], Locusts, Lice, Frogs and Blood: signs openly Self-explained; but they were steeped in arrogance a people given to sin"

17: 101 To Moses We did give NINE Clear Signs: ask the Children of Israel: when he came to them Pharaoh said to him: "O Moses! I consider thee indeed to have been worked upon by sorcery!"

And so it refers to 9 plagues instead of 10, with no mention at all of the Passover sacrifice so central to Judaism.

Why?

http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Quran%27s%20NINE%20Plagues%20of%20Moses.html

http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/bloodatonement.htm

Because Mohammed was a child-molesting, thieving, raping, mass-murdering warlord who talked to a demon and was tinkering with the Truth to break off a Lie for his own selfish power, and his purpose was to lead people away from the truth of Christ, so he said Jesus was not the Son of God and did not die on the cross as the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and he even went so far as to remove the 10th plague from his bastardized retelling of the Biblical narrative.

Hebrews 9:11-15 "But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the sprinkling of defiled persons with the blood of goats and bulls and with the ashes of a heifer sanctifies for the purification of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant."

Of the three religions described as Abrahamic, Judaism claims to be the oldest and purest. However, upon scrutiny, the texts of the Old Testament can be traced to authors and events which predate the Jewish people. In typical Usurious style, the Rabbinical mafia of early Jewish times, took other peoples’ stories and histories, added a completely fictitious Jewish gloss, and sold these stories back to the world at the inflated price of demanding worship of the plagiarists.

But now, sadly this author has decided to spin off his own Lie. Now, this author shows his true colors. JEW-HATER. This author doesn't want the Truth, so he has to try to undermine the Torah.

The Ten Commandments are simply Babylonian Law, and were not revealed to the fictional character Moses. The Code of Hammurabi was outwardly adopted by the Jews who dwelt in Babylon, and twisted to suit their own ends. The Ten Commandments in themselves are excellent guidelines to live by, and may have resulted from Divine Inspiration, but the Jews had no part in their creation or transmission to humanity. The Jews of ancient times were quite happy to steal, rape, sodomise and kill; indeed their only real additions to ancient faiths and histories have been boastful descriptions of crimes against humanity which should appal all decent people.

The Ten Commandments are YHWH's righteous Law handed down to his servant Moses, and the Mosaic Law is quite distinct from the Babylonian law. If you wish to read a Christian viewpoint of the similarities and differences between the Code of Hammurabi and the Mosaic Law here it is:

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essayscomp/cw03hammurabijustinlaw.htm

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw03hammurabijustintheo.htm

The Israelites were used as the agents of God's judgment against the corrupt pagan Canaanites who were the human-sacrificers and sodomizers. I am not appalled by the descriptions of the righteous genocide that occurred by the command of God. I stand with YHWH. I will stand with YHWH as the plagues rain down on the NWO and will praise him for it.

Revelation 19:1-3 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:

“Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

And again they shouted:

“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”

There is not one single story from the Old Testament which can in substance be credited to the Jews. The Talmud takes the theft of other peoples’ histories and faiths a stage further, and reduces everything to that which serves the Jewish people. The God of the Jews is an androgynous dæmonic entity who murders and destroys; a shemale terrorist if you like. The use by Christians of Judaic terms is proof of the infiltration of Talmudism into the heart of Christianity. The œcumenical drive to unite the Christian faith of forgiveness, virtue and modesty, with the vengeful, perverse and egomaniacal Synagogue of Satan is literally diabolical.

Utter hatred of my God. This person, like so many others, will not submit to the idea of the Righteous Judge who as Creator has the Authority to give life...and to take it. This person conflates the YHWH of Old World Abrahamism with the false YHWH of the Talmud, the Talmud written by those same Pharisees who Jesus condemned.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

"The Talmud is, then, the written form of that which in the time of Jesus, was called the Traditions of the Elders." — Rabbi Michael L. Rodkinson
and
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees." — Universal Jewish Encyclopedia

That come-and-hear site has lots of good articles, but also conflates Abrahamism with Talmudism to condemn YHWH and turn from the Truth.

The ecumenical drive is being pushed not only by Kabbalist Freemasons, but by ANTI-JEW GLOBALISTS.

The ecumenical drive is being accomplished by Hexagram Team Zionist Globalist AND Yinyang Team Everybody Else Globalist.

Gaze upon the symbol of "Mother of the New Age" Helena Blavatsky's Hindu/Buddhist derived Theosophy and understand the truth:

http://nachtkabaret.com/ihvh/img/nk_sp_theosophy_emblem_logo.gif

Read her biography and understand. Please wake up.

Helena Blavatsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (Russian: Еле́на Петро́вна Блава́тская, Ukrainian: Олена Петрівна Блаватська), (born as Helena von Hahn (Russian: Елена Петровна Ган, Ukrainian: Олена Петрівна Ган); 12 August [O.S. 31 July] 1831 – 8 May 1891) was a scholar of ancient wisdom literature who along with H.S Olcott and Anagarika Dharmapala was instrumental in the Western transmission and revival of Theravada Buddhism. In 1875 Blavatsky and Olcott established a research and publishing institute called the Theosophical Society. Blavatsky defined Theosophy as "the archaic Wisdom-Religion, the esoteric doctrine once known in every ancient country having claims to civilization."[1] Blavatsky's extensive research into the many different spiritual traditions of the world led to the publication of what is now considered her magnum opus, The Secret Doctrine, which collates and organizes the essence of these teachings into a comprehensive synthesis. Blavatsky saw herself as a missionary of this ancient knowledge and one of the main purposes of the Theosophical Society was “to form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or color”.[2] Blavatsky's other works include Isis Unveiled, The Key to Theosophy, and The Voice of the Silence.

Her evolutionary view admits a difference in development between various ethnic groups:
“ The occult doctrine admits of no such divisions as the Aryan and the Semite, accepting even the Turanian [as part of the same language group] with ample reservations. The Semites, especially the Arabs, are later Aryans — degenerate in spirituality and perfected in materiality."[68]

AMAZING AND ACCURATE EXPOSÉ OF THE NEW AGE BY A SECULAR JEW

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/newage.htm

Why is so much effort placed in destroying Christianity and Islam? The major reason is that in their un-Judaised forms, they clearly emphasise the difference between right and wrong, good and evil; differences which the internationalists are keen to muddle to the point where no-one can appreciate their importance. Islam in its true form contains many beautiful and spiritually elevating aspects. Just as Christianity has been hijacked with the despicable Vatican II, so has Islam been corrupted by the Salafi abomination of the Talmudist infiltrator, Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab. The twin terror states of Israel and Saudi Arabia come from the same internationalist Jewish supremacist movement. The capture of Rome in the early 1960s completed this Unholy Trinity. The Talmudic faith is simply Zionism behind a spiritual mask. The goal of the One World Religionists is a universal faith which enshrines the Jews as God’s Chosen People; Islam and Christianity specifically reject this and so must be destroyed. The internationalist agenda is being pushed by stealth and deception in every aspect; financial, cultural, racial and spiritual.

The author just got done saying that Mohammed rejected the forgiveness of Christianity to follow a path of vengeance, but now he is praising as spiritually elevating a religion that condones child molestation and sex slavery, as well as commanding open-ended jihad against the entire world.

Qur'an 48:29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.

versus

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
----------------------------
Qur'an 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

(Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

versus

Matthew 10:7-14 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

“Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

Wahhab was a real Islamic reformer. Wahhab is the Islamic equal to Martin Luther. Wahhab brought Islam back to its roots, the Salafis are obsessed with practicing Islam as it was practiced in the days of Mohammed.

The House of Saud is indeed covertly allied with the Zionists. Why? Because that's the Hegelian Dialectic, Zionism vs Islam is the stage set for World War 3, from the ashes comes NWO.

The House of Saud is Gnostic Luciferian, they are Satanists just like the Freemasons over in Israel.

Understanding that we are under attack from every angle poses a question; what to do about it? We need to protect our cultural heritage; secure our economic base; oppose all encroachment of national (ethnic) frontiers; fight against everything which dilutes our freedom; and oppose all who push Talmudism through materialism or œcumenicalism.

The Talmudists are pawns, the Kabbalist Freemasons are their masters, and at the highest levels of Team Zionist Globalist are the Luciferians who cooperate with the Lucis Trust Theosophy crowd over at the UN-and EU based Team Everybody Else Globalist.

The low level "Jewish superiority Zionists" are pawns for the big game, and the Antichrist will eventually try to exterminate the Jews.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/newage.htm

3. Because of their 'racial karma' [see above in Human History section], the Jewish people have a singularly low potential for achieving entry to the New Age, having a 'blood taint' which is impossible to completely overcome. This, together with their stubborn insistence on one exclusive G-d and their uniqueness as a chosen people, makes them rejects for the Age of Aquarius. The continual Jew-hatred among the nations is their 'karma' catching up with them, as Alice Bailey wrote shortly after the Holocaust:

"Today the law [of racial karma] is working, and the Jews are paying the price, factually and symbolically...They regard themselves as the chosen people... [but] it is Humanity which is the chosen people... They demand the so-called restitution of Palestine, wresting it away from those who have inhabited it for many centuries...[ever wonder why this myth never seems to retreat before the facts? Find out how many media CEOs and UN ambassadors are New Agers.] They have never yet faced candidly and honestly (as a race) the problem of WHY [her emphasis] the many nations, from the time of the Egyptians, have neither liked nor wanted them... Yet there must be some reason, inherent in the people themselves, when the reaction is so general and universal.

The evil karma of the Jew today is intended to end his isolation, to bring him to the point of ...renouncing a nationality that has a tendency to be somewhat parasitic within the boundaries of other nations..." (Esoteric Healing, 1949, p.263ff)

Bailey also commented that "Jews frequently lower the atmosphere of any district in which they reside," but insisted that she herself was not anti-semitic; she was simply stating "an absolute truth" ('Unfinished Autobiography'). However, she alternately blames the "problems inherent in the Jewish race" on the "astrological influence of the third ray when the sun was in Gemini aeons ago, which causes them to be manipulative and to dominate." ('Esoteric Psychology') No solution is offered for the inherited deficiencies' which continue to dog them in spite of eons of corrective karma.

4. Along with the Jews, their G-d and their laws are portrayed as similarly outdated, oppressive and fraudulent. Taking their cue from Blavatsky's assertion that the Jews have "a religion of hate and malice toward everyone and everything outside itself," her successors elaborated:

"The word 'love' for others is lacking in Judaism, though love of Jehovah is taught with due threats." (Alice Bailey, 'Problems of Humanity') "The Jew has never grasped the love of God. The God of the Jews is possessive and greedy, Jehovah is not God." (Alice Bailey, 'Esoteric Healing')

"Fundamentalism [Jewish and Christian] minimizes the value of the human being, tendency... to emphasize the awesome might and power of God transcendent 'above and outside' His Creation [rather than] God immanent within the human heart. This ancient misconceived split between God and humanity has worked great mischief. It has caused people to feel little, expendable and utterly vulnerable unless they rigidly follow certain rules or formulas..." (Lucis Trust, 'World Goodwill Newsletter,' summer 1982)

"The Jews are the reincarnation of spiritual failures or residues from another planet... The Jew represents materialism, cruelty and a spiritual conservatism, under the domination of the separative, selfish mind [ie, their G-d, since all mind is God], that from which all good disciples want to emerge... They have forgotten humanity and that millions in the world today have suffered as they have..." (Bailey, 'Rays and Initiations') [notice how 'separative' and 'conservative' are equated with 'cruel' and 'selfish', a recurring association]

[i]Understanding and accepting that the Old Testament is a compilation of mythology, history, and fables from ancient pre-Jewish times should help to free our minds from the grip of those who seek to make us slaves to a mafia masquerading as a divine race. The ancient Israelites are long gone; absorbed into many other nations. The modern usurpers who use their name have no connection to these long assimilated people. Those who call themselves Jews, but are not Jews, have no power over us, and are not motivated by a desire to aid humanity by their righteous example (which any Palestinian will attest is nothing to be proud of), but rather are motivated by a lust for power and wealth which is a product of a mental illness generated by centuries of inbreeding and genetic corruption.

Now this author has determined that there are no ancient Israelites left, which is disproven by DNA. The Ashkenazi definitely have some Khazar mixed in, and Israel certainly has a fair number of citizens who probably do not have any Israelite blood, but:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

The Khazar Myth Debunked - 13th Tribe - Arthur Koestler Refuted - YouTube

What of the Ten Commandments and the desire to be good neighbours, living charitable and virtuous lives? This desire is not harmed by realisation that the Talmudic liars have taken for themselves the stories and faiths of others; but rather is revitalised by knowledge that in ancient times our ancestors had a deep understanding of the spiritual world, and that countless years of intriguing by self-serving materialists may have confused our perception, but has not blinded us to the truth.

First the author was raving against Old Testament YHWH the evil demon, now he says the Ten Commandments that the Old Testament YHWH gave to Moses produce good neighbors and charitable virtuous lives.

James 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

Do you see a similarity between this paragraph, and the above anti-Jewish ravings of Alice Bailey and Helena Blavatsky?

Lucis Trust, Alice Bailey, World Goodwill and the False Light of the World

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Lucis_Trust.htm

Alice Bailey & Master Djwhal Khul: A Satanic Communion

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Alice_Bailey.htm

Protect yourself by staying true to what you instinctively and spiritually know is right, and stand up for truth no matter what. The universal enemy is the Father of Lies, and his power is an illusion. Beware those who say they have all the answers, especially if they claim they can intercede for you with God. An omnipresent, omnisentient, omnipotent deity wouldn't really need people to speak for Him. Those who claim otherwise are speaking for themselves and for an agenda which is far from Holy.

And don't you dare listen to anyone who says they have the Truth. That Bible is wrong, God does not use people as messengers.

Especially not me. :)

You can always trust a person in search of the truth, but never the one who has found it. MANLY P. HALL

And that is purely expressed hatred of the Truth.

And the funny thing is, it is making a fundamental statement of what Mr. Hall considers to be a fundamental truth.

The words "always", and "never" express a concrete, unchanging truth that Mr. Hall is preaching as fundamental doctrine.

So by Mr. Hall's own logic, you cannot trust that statement, because he has declared it to always be the truth.

The statement in reality is utterly illogical, it disproves itself, and it is completely contrary to science.

Science uses trial and error, the process of elimination, otherwise known as "the scientific method", to determine what the truth is by eliminating false hypotheses.

Once there is only one hypothesis left, that hypothesis is agreed to be the truth.

Then that isolated truth is put in the textbooks and taught by people who claim to have the truth.

But according to Mr.Hall, spirituality should be approached from the completely opposite view, anyone who claims to have the spiritual truth should never be trusted, and why?

Because ONLY YOU have the Truth WITHIN YOU.

So following Mr. Hall's anti-logic to it's anti-logical conclusion, the only teaching that any enlightened master should ever teach is this:

GO AWAY AND FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF

If this anti-logic is applied to science, then all schools are a waste of time. Every heart surgeon should be completely self-taught.

Insanity and Chaos.

That is what Mr. Hall's statement is.

And who was Mr. Hall?

Mr. Hall was a Freemason.

Why would Mr. Hall give a quote that tells you that it is only possible to find the truth within your own self?

Here is why:

FREEMASONRY TEACHES MAN IS BECOMING GOD

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free13.html

The triangle is a very important symbol to the occultist, and is used constantly in every conceivable manner. The triangle is used either with the point up or the point down. If the point is down, it represents the Deity and is called the Deity's Triangle or the Water Triangle. If the point is up, it is called the Earthly Triangle, or Pyramid Triangle, and "symbolizes the PERFECT OR DIVINE MAN". Folks, this quote is not from some heinous Black-hooded Satanist, but from a 33rd Degree Masonic author, George Steinmetz [Freemasonry: Its Hidden Meaning , New York, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1948, p. 63, repeated on p. 67] As any person familiar with Scripture will tell you, the Gospel of Jesus Christ tells man boldly and clearly that no person can work themselves up to being "divine"; indeed, all our effort is as "filthy rags" to Jesus Christ. Yet, Freemasonry joins all pagan groups in saying that man can become "divine" or "perfect'. Freemasonry is totally unbiblical on this point.

But, old George is not finished with this subject yet! In another book, he returns to this theme once again, this time blaspheming an important and familiar Scripture, God's own Words, to be exact. Listen:

"Be still -- and know -- that I am God ... That I AM GOD -- the final recognition of the All in All, the unity of the Self with the Cosmos -- the cognition of the DIVINITY OF THE SELF!" [Emphasis in the original; George H. Steinmetz, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Richmond, Virginia, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1923, p. 92]

Can you imagine such blasphemy? This Masonic author has just twisted the Words of God Almighty in Exodus 3:14, by applying them to mankind! This is incredible, but it is more than that, is it not? This blasphemy is an excellent example to show us why Freemasonry has been so sensitive about any of its secrets ever becoming public knowledge. Masons in every age knew that if the general public knew the Satanic core that existed in the heart of Freemasonry, the organization would either go into oblivion or would be arrested and put in jail. Now you know why Freemasonry insists that its Initiates pledge that, if they divulge any of Masonry's secrets, he would agree to having his throat slit and be disemboweled!

Lest you think this blasphemy of saying that man can become God is unique to George Steinmetz, listen to the words of two more Masonic authors. Manly P. Hall, another 33rd Degree Mason, writes, "Man is a God in the making ..." [The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 92] Masonic author, Joseph Fort Newton, clearly and boldly states, ".. to the profoundest insight of the human soul -- that God becomes man that man may become God." [The Religion of Freemasonry: An Interpretation", Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1969, p. 37]

And if we learn anything about Masonic symbolism, we start seeing it everywhere.

Around these parts, most of us probably know it's on the U.S. dollar:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8180/dollarbillpyramideye.jpg

Novus Ordo Seclorum = New Order of the Ages = NEW WORLD ORDER

Some of us might even know about the hexagrams:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6181/asmon.jpg

Yes, those circled letters can be arranged to spell MASON.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/262/sealstar.jpg

And here is a nice picture drawn by the famous occultist Eliphas Levi of that Seal of Solomon:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6405/eliphazlevypub.jpg

Yes, that is meant to be Solomon himself integrated into the hexagram.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9243/squareandcompasshexagra.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8341/freemason.jpg

The "G" stands for GNOSIS

Your controllers in the West are Judeo-Masonic Gnostic/Kabbalist occultists, who think themselves to be enlightened gods, worthy of judging good and evil, worthy to commit great evil for a supposedly good purpose, since good is evil, and evil is good, the doctrine of the hexagram and yinyang, and the Masonic checkerboard floor and double-headed eagle.

The supposedly good purpose is the creation of the Novus Ordo Seclorum.

They planned and orchestrated 9/11 to that end.

Illuminati Ritual at Ground Zero 911 - YouTube

FREEMASONRY AND THE NEW AGE WORLD RELIGION

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry/freemasonry-and-the-new-age-religion

After the self-divinity pagan elites have created their NWO, with their self-divinity pagan One World Religion, who is going to refuse to cooperate?

The true servants of YHWH.

The Christian man who runs the website that hosts that article about the New Age One World Religion was poisoned by Freemasons.

They tried to kill him. The self-divinity pagans tried to murder him.

He survived by a miracle of Jesus.

Freemasonry’s Attempted Murder of Ed Decker

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry/freemasonrys-attempted-murder-of-ed-decker

Before the Masons were trying to kill him, before he was saved by Jesus, Ed Decker was a Mormon.

Sinister Sites – Temple Square, Utah

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-temple-square-utah/

The Mormon Masonic Connection

http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-mormon-masonic-connection

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 01:37 AM
And the comment below that article needs to be reposted.

Anonymous said...

The Old Testament is a warning to the Hebrews as much as anyone to avoid the Talmudics and exposes their nefarious ways.
19 February 2012 23:33

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus || Spoken Word - YouTube

exu156
19-06-2012, 02:09 AM
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8341/freemason.jpg

The "G" stands for GNOSIS



http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/theletterg.html

If you can't even get the interpretation right to a very basic Masonic symbol then how can your interpretation regarding anything else be taken seriously?

Seriously dude. Pick your sources more carefully. Your posts are looking sillier and sillier.

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 03:16 AM
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/theletterg.html

If you can't even get the interpretation right to a very basic Masonic symbol then how can your interpretation regarding anything else be taken seriously?

Seriously dude. Pick your sources more carefully. Your posts are looking sillier and sillier.

So I should only post what the Freemasons, a "society with secrets" by their own admission, tell the general public what the meaning of their symbols is?

LOL.

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it." Albert Pike, 33rd degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonry, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]

"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)

Freemasonry Proven to Worship Lucifer

http://freemasonrywatch.org/lucifer.html

exu156
19-06-2012, 03:19 AM
So I should only post what the Freemasons, a "society with secrets" by their own admission, tell the general public what the meaning of their symbols is?

LOL.

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it." Albert Pike, 33rd degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonry, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]

"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)

Freemasonry Proven to Worship Lucifer

http://freemasonrywatch.org/lucifer.html

Oh my God what a stupid reply. No, instead you should go to the usual 'Christian' sites whose opinions are always so balanced and well sourced. :D

Remember that Alice Bailey quote you posted in another thread? Remember I asked you for a source for that quote? Got it yet?

valmar
19-06-2012, 03:35 AM
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/theletterg.html

If you can't even get the interpretation right to a very basic Masonic symbol then how can your interpretation regarding anything else be taken seriously?

Seriously dude. Pick your sources more carefully. Your posts are looking sillier and sillier.

I know not what the "G" stands for, but it might have something to do with the Great Architect that I hear about (regarding freemasonry). I think I might explore freemasonry a bit more. It seems as fascinating as the other forms of spirituality and religion out there.

valmar
19-06-2012, 03:39 AM
So I should only post what the Freemasons, a "society with secrets" by their own admission, tell the general public what the meaning of their symbols is?

LOL.

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it." Albert Pike, 33rd degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonry, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]

"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)

Freemasonry Proven to Worship Lucifer

http://freemasonrywatch.org/lucifer.html

At the lower degrees they are misled, but as they get higher and higher in rank, I think it gets slowly revealed to them, if they will listen.

exu156
19-06-2012, 03:52 AM
So I should only post what the Freemasons, a "society with secrets" by their own admission, tell the general public what the meaning of their symbols is?

LOL.

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it." Albert Pike, 33rd degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonry, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]

"Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 819)


Total misunderstanding of basic practices yet again. I will let G.I. Gurdjieff explain:

"You say that this knowledge was hidden. This is not true. It was simply beyond the scope of men and women to understand. They were incapable, because the ground-work had not been laid out. Without preparation, even the most simple things seem strange. If Man remains at this station of perplexity, unable to fathom any hidden meaning behind the most simple words, then it is not because this meaning is hidden, but because access to it was obstructed. By too many words, by useless things that deviated attention from what is true."

and...

"Thanks to this knowledge itself, and to your personal work, you are now able to understand what I have been saying. If we spoke again of the same knowledge in a years' time, then you will not have waited for it to miraculously reveal itself, you will have searched further. Thus your understanding will have deepened. We will speak of the same knowledge, but it will not surprise you anymore. Instead, maybe you will have found something, that could be of interest to me also. We will both see the same thing from a deepened or heightened perspective, and this interplay of different levels will have interest all by itself. Our understanding will have changed, evolved. As long as people are incapable of understanding, it is of no use to speak. It is of no help to descend to the listeners' level, for then even I will lack the right words, for my words in his language will be incomprehensible, both to him and to me."

There is no spoon-feeding in these traditions. You must first make yourself ready. There will be no laziness. The body and mind have to be trained and controlled by the will. Crowley recommended Yoga but there are many different ways. Yoga has 6 paths:

Gnana Union by Knowledge
Raja Union by Will
Bhakta Union by Love
Hatha Union by Courage
Mantra Union by Speech
Karma Union by Work

Crowley states that these are to be united by the supreme method of Silence.

“If this idea be any but the Supreme and Perfect idea, and the student lose control, the result is insanity, obsession, fanaticism, or paralysis and death (add addiction to gossip and incurable idleness) according to the nature of the failure. Let then the Student understand all these things and combine them in his Art, uniting them by the supreme method of Silence.”

All further work should stop until this self-discipline has been mastered.

Then the initiate is capable of understanding his first instruction:

"This is the first paradox of philosophy, make sure to study it well. The key to freedom is discipline."

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 05:13 AM
Oh my God what a stupid reply. No, instead you should go to the usual 'Christian' sites whose opinions are always so balanced and well sourced. :D

Remember that Alice Bailey quote you posted in another thread? Remember I asked you for a source for that quote? Got it yet?

This one?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/externalisation/exte1194.html

Years ago I said that the war which may follow this one would be waged in the field of the world religions. Such a war will not work out, however, in a similar period of extreme carnage and blood; it will be fought largely with mental weapons and in the world of thought; it will involve also the emotional realm, from the standpoint of idealistic fanaticism. This inherent fanaticism (found ever in reactionary groups) will fight against the appearance of the coming world religion and the spread of esotericism. For this struggle certain of the well-organized churches, through their conservative elements (their most powerful elements), are already girding themselves. Those sensitive to the new spiritual impacts are still far from powerful; that which is new always faces the supreme difficulty of superseding and overcoming that which is old and established. Fanaticism, entrenched theological positions, and materialistic selfishness are to be found actively organized in the churches in all continents and of all denominations. They can be expected to fight for their established ecclesiastical order, their material profit and their temporal rule, and already are making the needed preparations.

The coming struggle will emerge within the churches themselves; it will also be precipitated by the enlightened elements who exist in fair numbers already, and are rapidly growing in strength through the impact of human necessity. [454] The fight will then spread to thinking men and women everywhere who - in a protesting revolt - have denied orthodox churchianity and theology. They are not irreligious but have, through pain and sorrow, learned (without ecclesiastical help) that the spiritual values are the only values which can salvage humanity, that the Hierarchy stands, and that Christ - as the symbol of peace and the Leader of the Forces of Light - is not a negligible force but one that is evoking response from the hearts of men everywhere. True religion will come to be interpreted in terms of the will-to-good and its practical expression, goodwill. The coming world conferences and the international councils will give indication of the strength of this new spiritual response (on the part of humanity) to the over-shadowing spiritual Potencies awaiting the invocative cry of mankind. When that cry arises, these divine energies will precipitate themselves into the realm of human thinking and planning. Men will then find themselves gifted with renewed strength and with the needed insight which will enable them to drive out the entrenched materialistic forces and the power of selfish interests - banded together to prevent human freedom. If the conferences to be held in the near future demonstrate that mankind is truly striving to bring about right human relations, the forces of evil can then be driven back; the Forces of Light will then take control.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

A Scientific Analysis of the Writings of Alice A. Bailey and their Applications.

Robert A. Herrmann Ph. D.

http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 07:50 AM
Exu's guru Aleister Crowley:

Aleister Crowley: His Elite Ties and His Legacy

The man who revelled in being called “Great Beast 666″ and dubbed by the press as the “Wickedest Man in History” was more than a theatrical occultist: Aleister Crowley is at the heart of one of the most influential movements of the 20th and 21st centuries. He also had ties with some of the world’s most powerful figures, even working with the British Intelligence Agency MI-5. This article describes the life and works of occultist Aleister Crowley and looks at his ties with the world elite which facilitated the propagation of the Thelema.

http://secretarcana.com/influentialfigures/aleister-crowley-and-his-legacy/

Crowley's early history and association with Freemasonry:

http://secretarcana.com/wp-content/uploads/leadcrowley.jpg

In his late twenties, Crowley joined many esoteric groups where he was either admired and rose high in the ranks or despised and expelled. Inspired by Arthur E. Waite’s book, The Book of Black Magic and of Pacts, Crowley joined the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn–known as the “Great White Brotherhood” –in 1898. This secret society held within its membership elite and highly influential members of society. There he was introduced to ceremonial magic and the ritualistic usage of drugs.

In 1899, he reportedly became a member of the Old George Pickingil witch coven. However, he was not welcomed for long as a result of his irresponsible attitude and his inclinations toward homosexuality (which was shocking at that time, even to witches). The priestess of his coven later described him as “a dirty minded, evilly-disposed and vicious little monster!” 3.

Crowley also became a high-ranking Freemason, joining several lodges and acquiring several Masonic degrees. In his autobiography, Crowley described his attainment of the 33rd (and last) degree of the Scottish Rite in Mexico:

“Don Jesus Medina, a descendant of the great duke of Armada fame, and one of the highest chiefs of Scottish Rite free-masonry. My cabbalistic knowledge being already profound by current standards, he thought me worthy of the highest initiation in his power to confer; special powers were obtained in view of my limited sojourn, and I was pushed rapidly through and admitted to the thirty-third and last degree before I left the country.” 4

With the help of prominent author and Freemason John Yarker, Crowley obtained other Masonic degrees including the 3° In France by the Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343, 33° of the irregular ‘Cerneau’ Scottish Rite and 90°/95° of the Rite of Memphis/Misraim 5. According to the United Grand Lodge of England however, whose recognition is generally considered the standard for Masonic validity, none of these Masonic bodies were considered regular and he was never considered an official Freemason.

CROWLEY WAS AN ELITE INTELLIGENCE AGENT. ELITE. CROWLEY WAS AN AGENT OF THE ELITES.

The most significant work on the subject of Crowley’s spy career is Richard B. Spence’s Agent 666. Using documents gleaned from British, American, French and Italian archives, Secret Agent 666 sensationally reveals that Crowley played a major role in the sinking of the Lusitania, a plot to overthrow the government of Spain, the thwarting of Irish and Indian nationalist conspiracies, and the 1941 flight of Rudolf Hess.

Crowley's basic doctrine:

Later during their stay in Egypt, Crowley and Rose took part in a magical ritual during which he alleges to have received a message from an entity named Aiwass. As a result of this communication, Crowley wrote the first three chapters of the Book of the Law – a mystical text which, he believed, would revolutionize the future of mankind.

“It announced the advent of a new eon in which Crowley has become the priest-prince of a new religion, the Age of Horus. He was to formulate a link between humanity and the “solar-spiritual force, during which the god Horus would preside for the next two thousand years over the evolution of consciousness on this planet. (…)

The message from Aiwaz, whom Crowley understood to be his own guardian angel, convinced him that his mission in life was to give the coup de grace to the Age of Osiris with its moribund appendage, the Christian faith, and build on the ruins a new religion based on the law of the Thelema – Greek for ‘will’.” 6

1- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law;

2- Love is the law, Love under will;

3- Every man and every woman is a star.

Crowley's drawing of Aiwass:

http://secretarcana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/aiwass-e1302289191594.jpg

Crowley said that something big was necessary to happen before the New Aeon (New Age, New Order of the Ages, Novus Ordo Seclorum, New World Order) could come about:

http://raumfahrer.wordpress.com/manson/crowley-on-sacrifice/

The blood is the life. This simple statement is explained by the Hindus by saying that the blood is the principal vehicle of vital Prana. There is some ground for the belief that there is a definite substance , not isolated as yet, whose presence makes all {93** the difference between live and dead matter. We pass by with deserved contempt the pseudoscientific experiments of American charlatans who claim to have established that weight is lost at the moment of death, and the unsupported statements of alleged clairvoyants that they have seen the soul issuing like a vapour from the mouth of persons “in articulo mortis”; but his experiences as an explorer have convinced the Master Therion that meat loses a notable portion of its nutritive value within a very few minutes after the death of the animal, and that this loss proceeds with everdiminishing rapidity as time goes on. It is further generally conceded that live food, such as oysters, is the most rapidly assimilable and most concentrated form of energy. Laboratory experiments in food-values seem to be almost worthless, for reasons which we cannot here enter into; the general testimony of mankind appears a safer guide.

It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of {94** the ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal, and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly.

The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony — thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such a case a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin — the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim. {95** For evocations it would be more convenient to place the blood of the victim in the Triangle — the idea being that the spirit might obtain from the blood this subtle but physical substance which was the quintessence of its life in such a manner as to enable it to take on a visible and tangible shape.

Those magicians who object to the use of blood have endeavored to replace it with incense. For such a purpose the incense of Abramelin may be burnt in large quantities. Dittany of Crete is also a valuable medium. Both these incenses are very catholic in their nature, and suitable for almost any materialization. But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best. The truly great Magician will be able to use his own blood, or possibly that of a disciple, and that without sacrificing the physical life irrevocably. An example of this sacrifice is given in Chapter 44 of Liber 333. This Mass may be recommended generally for daily practice.

One last word on this subject. There is a Magical operation of maximum importance: the Initiation of a New Aeon. When it becomes necessary to utter a Word, the whole Planet must be bathed in blood. Before man is ready to accept the Law of Thelema, the Great War must be fought. This Bloody Sacrifice is the critical point of the World-{96**Ceremony of the Proclamation of Horus, the Crowned and conquering Child, as Lord of the Aeon.

This whole matter is prophesied in the Book of the Law itself; let the student take note,
and enter the ranks of the Host of the Sun.

Ezekiel 8:16-18 He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east.

He said to me, “Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the people of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually arouse my anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them.”

Alice Bailey, Externalization of the Hierarchy:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/externalisation/exte1082.html

Certain major and spiritual premises should lie back of all efforts to formulate the new world order. Let me state some of them:

The new world order must meet the immediate need and not be an attempt to satisfy some distant, idealistic vision.
The new world order must be appropriate to a world which has passed through a destructive crisis and to a humanity which is badly shattered by the experience.
The new world order must lay the foundation for a future world order which will be possible only after a time of recovery, of reconstruction, and of rebuilding.

valmar
19-06-2012, 07:53 AM
Total misunderstanding of basic practices yet again. I will let G.I. Gurdjieff explain:

"You say that this knowledge was hidden. This is not true. It was simply beyond the scope of men and women to understand. They were incapable, because the ground-work had not been laid out. Without preparation, even the most simple things seem strange. If Man remains at this station of perplexity, unable to fathom any hidden meaning behind the most simple words, then it is not because this meaning is hidden, but because access to it was obstructed. By too many words, by useless things that deviated attention from what is true."

and...

"Thanks to this knowledge itself, and to your personal work, you are now able to understand what I have been saying. If we spoke again of the same knowledge in a years' time, then you will not have waited for it to miraculously reveal itself, you will have searched further. Thus your understanding will have deepened. We will speak of the same knowledge, but it will not surprise you anymore. Instead, maybe you will have found something, that could be of interest to me also. We will both see the same thing from a deepened or heightened perspective, and this interplay of different levels will have interest all by itself. Our understanding will have changed, evolved. As long as people are incapable of understanding, it is of no use to speak. It is of no help to descend to the listeners' level, for then even I will lack the right words, for my words in his language will be incomprehensible, both to him and to me."

There is no spoon-feeding in these traditions. You must first make yourself ready. There will be no laziness. The body and mind have to be trained and controlled by the will. Crowley recommended Yoga but there are many different ways. Yoga has 6 paths:

Gnana Union by Knowledge
Raja Union by Will
Bhakta Union by Love
Hatha Union by Courage
Mantra Union by Speech
Karma Union by Work

Crowley states that these are to be united by the supreme method of Silence.

“If this idea be any but the Supreme and Perfect idea, and the student lose control, the result is insanity, obsession, fanaticism, or paralysis and death (add addiction to gossip and incurable idleness) according to the nature of the failure. Let then the Student understand all these things and combine them in his Art, uniting them by the supreme method of Silence.”

All further work should stop until this self-discipline has been mastered.

Then the initiate is capable of understanding his first instruction:

"This is the first paradox of philosophy, make sure to study it well. The key to freedom is discipline."

Wonderful stuff exu! You and passerbye have some of the best stuff on spirituality and religion I have ever read! Not to mention luciferhorus when he was here. I'm doing Hatha Yoga myself at the moment.

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 10:58 AM
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/madonnas-superbowl-halftime-show-a-celebration-of-the-grand-priestess-of-the-music-industry/

A week before the Superbowl, Madonna described on Anderson Cooper the spiritual importance she attributed to her halftime show:

“The Superbowl is kind of like the Holy of Holies in America. I’ll come at halfway of the “church experience” and I’m gonna have to deliver a sermon. It’ll have to be very impactful.”

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6495/madonnaj.jpg

Kabbalah Centre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Madonna studies regularly with a personal Kabbalah Centre rabbi, no longer gives concerts on Friday night (which is the onset of Shabbat), wears the red string around her left wrist for protection and to ward off the "Evil Eye" (Ayin Hara), has introduced Jewish ritual objects such as tefilin ("phylacteries") into her videos and tithes regularly to the Kabbalah Centre.[10] In July, 2006 the media reported an unfounded rumour that Madonna was leaving the Kabbalah Centre[11] and one media columnist speculated that one reason was alleged financial irregularities of donations to the centre.[10] Despite the uncorroborated allegations of financial irregularities, the rumour turned out to be false, and Madonna continues to attend Kabbalah Centre events. In fact, Madonna has collaborated with the Kabbalah Centre on a new project called Raising Malawi, which will provide relief aid to the African nation of Malawi.[12] When Madonna tried to partner Raising Malawi with UNICEF, UNICEF demurred due to this project's close association with the Kabbalah Centre.[13]

Lindsay Lohan has also had some involvement with the organization, and has been seen wearing the associated red string on her wrist.[14] Other celebrities that have been associated with the Centre include Roseanne Barr, Sandra Bernhard, Anthony Kiedis, Ashton Kutcher, Demi Moore, Mick Jagger, Jerry Hall, Lucy Liu, Pierre Lewis, Alex Rodriguez, Rosie O'Donnell, Naomi Campbell, Donna Karan, Elizabeth Taylor, Mischa Barton, Britney Spears, Paris Hilton,[15] Nicole Richie, James Van Der Beek, and Heather McComb.

Britney Spears and Jerry Hall left the movement in 2006 and 2005. Jerry Hall, ex-wife of Rolling Stones singer Mick Jagger, left the Kabbalah Centre after she was asked to tithe ten percent of her revenues. Paris Hilton also left, and has gone back to the Roman Catholic faith.[16]

Why is the immensely rich and powerful music industry ELITE Madonna attracted to Kabbalah?

Why are so many other filthy rich celebrities involved?

Why does Kabbalah attract the self-proclaimed "Material Girl"?

Madonna - Material Girl (Official Music Video) - YouTube

The founder of Theosophy, "Mother of the New Age" Helena Blavatsky, who put that same hexagram front and center as Theosophy's symbol, had said that Judaism was "a religion of hate and malice toward everyone and everything outside itself", "The Semites are later Aryans — degenerate in spirituality and perfected in materiality."

Alice Bailey said "The Jew represents materialism", "The Jewish race, who loved the possessions of the world more than they loved the service of light, joined ranks with the rebels against God," becoming the arch-enemy of the Aryan allies of God. "Thus the history of the wandering Jew began and the Jew since has known no lasting peace." (from Alice Bailey, 'Esoteric Psychology, Volume 1')

So why then is elite materialist Hollywood attracted to Jewish Kabbalah, Kabbalah being not the fundamental Talmudism, or the "Old World Abrahamism", but being an esoteric discipline with very much in common with Theosophy?

Why is elite materialist Hollywood not rushing to join fundamentalist Christian churches, if they are all so materialist as Alice Bailey said?

Fanaticism, entrenched theological positions, and materialistic selfishness are to be found actively organized in the churches in all continents and of all denominations. They can be expected to fight for their established ecclesiastical order, their material profit and their temporal rule, and already are making the needed preparations.

Madonna - Like A Prayer (Sticky & Sweet Tour in Buenos Aires) - YouTube

We get started off with the All-Seeing Eye.

Then we get some Hebrew, and then some Arabic script, then other cultures, we already have a global unity message through visuals by the time she starts singing.

1:07 "YOU SHALL NOT HATE IN YOUR HEART"

Shouldn't hate what? Child molestation? Can I hate that?

Psalm 97:10 Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

1:23 "YOU SHALL NOT TAKE VENGEANCE, OR BEAR A GRUDGE"

I won't argue with that.

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

1:34 "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"

Not arguing with that.

Mark 12:28-31 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

But what happened to the greatest commandment?

1:48 "GOD, ELOHIM, ALLAH, VISHNU, SHIVA"...and whatever other names for Abrahamic God AND pagan gods you can pick out of the rapid fire.

While the lodge room Is off limits to non-Freemasons while meetings are In session, non-Freemasons might be very surprised to find that lodge is held in a room with an altar at its center which contains one or more Holy Books such as the Bible, the Koran, the Veda, the Tanakh, Torah, and others.

1:58 "JESUS SAID, WE HAVE COME FROM THE LIGHT"

?????????

Not in my Bible he didn't.

John 3:1-21 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven —the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

So what we have here is Kabbalist Reverend Madonna preaching a Jesus who says the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bible says.

The real Jesus says, "Y'ALL ARE IN DARKNESS, AND I AM THE LIGHT SENT TO SHOW YOU THE WAY OUT, MORE THAN THAT, I AM YOUR ONLY WAY OUT"

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2:05 "WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO HAS COME"

2:07 "BUT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW"

2:12 "THE LAMPS ARE DIFFERENT"

2:15 "BUT THE LIGHT IS THE SAME"

Why might the altar contain more than one of these books? The reason is because Freemasonry's universality extends to religion, race, age, and language. Freemasonry believes that each man's personal religious belief is the foundation necessary in order to make him a better man.[pursue self-divinity -- CH]

2:18 "IT COMES FROM BEYOND"

2:35 the sun...

This whole matter is prophesied in the Book of the Law itself; let the student take note, and enter the ranks of the Host of the Sun. -- Aleister Crowley

2:55 the Khamsa hand

Hamsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One theory postulates a connection between the khamsa and the Mano Pantea (or Hand-of-the-All-Goddess), an amulet known to ancient Egyptians as the Two Fingers. In this amulet, the Two Fingers represent Isis and Osiris and the thumb, their child Horus and it was used to invoke the protective spirits of parents over their child

One last word on this subject. There is a Magical operation of maximum importance: the Initiation of a New Aeon. When it becomes necessary to utter a Word, the whole Planet must be bathed in blood. Before man is ready to accept the Law of Thelema, the Great War must be fought. This Bloody Sacrifice is the critical point of the World-{96**Ceremony of the Proclamation of Horus, the Crowned and conquering Child, as Lord of the Aeon. -- Aleister Crowley

3:06 the Kabbalist witch symbolically sends her demons into the crowd

3:37 "I LOVE YOU WHEN YOU BOW IN YOUR MOSQUE, KNEEL IN YOUR TEMPLE, PRAY IN YOUR CHURCH.

At this point do I even need to mention the word "ecumenicalism"?

3:32 "FOR YOU AND I ARE SONS OF ONE RELIGION"

Nope, she said it for me.

3:36 "AND IT IS THE SPIRIT"

The Spirit of Antichrist.

4:00 "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU, JESUS MATTHEW 7:12"

Very interesting how she conveniently forgot to give the book, chapter and verse number for that first Jesus quote, eh?

4:06 "...DO UNTO YOUR NEIGHBOR TALMUD SHABBATH 31a"

Golden Rule from that Talmud that most of us know is also full of all kinds of nasty racist Jewish supremacism.

4:12 "HURT NOT OTHERS IN WAYS THAT YOU YOURSELF WOULD FIND HURTFUL--UDANA-VARGA 5:18 -- BUDDHA

Golden Rule from Siddharta Gautama, preacher of the Middle Way, which means:

An explanation of Nirvana (perfect enlightenment), a state wherein it becomes clear that all dualities apparent in the world are delusory ;
Another term for emptiness, the ultimate nature of all phenomena (in the Mahayana branch), a lack of inherent existence, which avoids the extremes of permanence and nihilism or inherent existence and nothingness.

The "enlightened" Buddhist denies the existence of good and evil, the difference is delusion. His enlightenment is, by his own admission, "emptiness". :(

4:17 "NO ONE OF YOU IS A BELIEVER UNTIL HE DESIRES FOR HIS BROTHER THAT WHICH HE DESIRES FOR HIMSELF --HADITH OF AN NAWAWI 13, MOHAMMED

Golden rule from the child-molesting, slave-raping, mass-murdering warlord.

4:24 "THE SELF"

4:25 "THE LORD, ELOHIM, GOD, EK ONKAR, ALLAH, BROHMAN, SHIVA, BHAGAVAN, EL SHADDEI...etc."

4:30 flash of light

She couldn't have spelled it out more clearly for you.

You are God, that is the "light" of the Spirit.

You came from the light, the light is God, you are God.

4:45 bathing in the light of the sun

5:07 "WE HAVE COME FROM THE LIGHT, TO IT WE SHALL RETURN."

5:22 FLAMES

She knows where she is going.

Revelation 21:6-8 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

http://galeri.uludagsozluk.com/39/m%C3%BCzik-end%C3%BCstrisinin-illuminati-taraf%C4%B1ndan-kontrol%C3%BC_109890.jpg

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/jay_z_beyonce_rihanna_and_the_occult_part_2.htm

http://evilmusicindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/illuminati-jayz.jpg

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/jay-z-exposed-11-30-09.JPG

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/jay-z-exposed-11-30-09-3.JPG

Aleister Crowley's Liber AL vel Legis

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib220.html

But to love me is better than all things: if under the night stars in the desert thou presently burnest mine incense before me, invoking me with a pure heart, and the Serpent flame therein, thou shalt come a little to lie in my bosom. For one kiss wilt thou then be willing to give all; but whoso gives one particle of dust shall lose all in that hour. Ye shall gather goods and store of women and spices; ye shall wear rich jewels; ye shall exceed the nations of the earth in spendour & pride; but always in the love of me, and so shall ye come to my joy. I charge you earnestly to come before me in a single robe, and covered with a rich headdress. I love you! I yearn to you! Pale or purple, veiled or voluptuous, I who am all pleasure and purple, and drunkenness of the innermost sense, desire you. Put on the wings, and arouse the coiled splendour[KUNDALINI -- CH] within you: come unto me!

http://edgeba.webs.com/kundalini-serpent-power.jpg

http://edgeba.webs.com/kundalini-rising.jpg

I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.

I am alone: there is no God where I am.

https://logicwindow.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/adamandeveingardenofeden.jpg

John 10:14-15 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father —and I lay down my life for the sheep.

http://3story.org/stories/gallery/1/black%20jesus.jpg

passerbye999
19-06-2012, 11:14 AM
what's your point besides wall papering the thread. There is nothing wrong with mysticism the problem lies in any organized religion. tithing and all that bullshit. God doesn't need money.

God doesn't need apologetics either he works on his own to he wishes.

cramhankie
19-06-2012, 11:38 AM
what's your point besides wall papering the thread. There is nothing wrong with mysticism the problem lies in any organized religion. tithing and all that bullshit. God doesn't need money.

God doesn't need apologetics either he works on his own to he wishes.

I love you, and I will pray for you. :)

exu156
20-06-2012, 01:59 AM
This one?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/externalisation/exte1194.html

[B]Years ago I said that the war which may follow this one would be waged in the field of the world religions. blah...blah...blah...

A Scientific Analysis of the Writings of Alice A. Bailey and their Applications.

Robert A. Herrmann Ph. D.

http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm

Too much nonsense to deserve a serious reply. Alice Bailey had nothing to do with true Freemasonry. She was obsessed with Christian mumbo jumbo and like so many generations before was awaiting the coming of Jesus as the messiah:

Amazon.com: The Reappearance of the Christ (9780853301141): Alice A. Bailey: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/316D1QY681L.@@AMEPARAM@@316D1QY681L

Within Masonic circles Bailey has always been viewed as a crackpot. Her contact with the supposed master Djwhal Khul was very dubious because at times it would seem this being was purely spiritual (no physical body) and yet, when convenient to her stories, it was very much flesh and blood. An example of this was when Jung essentially said that her works were wonderful, but that they probably came to Bailey from the Great Archetypal Unconscious through her "Higher Self," and not from some (imagined) Tibetan Lama. To which Bailey replied, "Perhaps Dr. Jung can explain how my "Higher self" sends me packages of incense from India!"

Bailey's form of Masonry was established in a group she started with her husband Foster called Grand Lodge Ancient Universal Mysteries or A.U.M. for short. The Baileys intrusive interest in Freemasonry arises from their notion of it being one of three main channels preparing us for a new age [Source: The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, by Alice Bailey page. 511]

However, while Freemasonry can be defined as, "A peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols," Foster Bailey regards it as, "A system of symbols" (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey, p.27). The distinction is made clear with him deeming morality as one of Masonry’s insufficient 'rewards' (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey, p.82) and he was dismissive of those Masons, "occupied entirely with its ethical implications" (The Spirit of Masonry, by Foster Bailey p.81).

This amoral attitude is particularly apparent when we consider the anti-Semitic changes the Baileys wished to impose on Freemasonry. Foster Bailey stated: “Masonry with its Jewish names and historical incidents, has come into serious disrepute” (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey p.37). Alice Bailey concurred, stating: “This Jewish colouring is today one of the main hindrances to the full expression of Masonic intention and should be changed” (The Rays and the Initiations, by Alice Bailey , p.418). She went on to say: “Its present form, resting as it does on a Jewish foundation which is nearly five thousand years old, must disappear... the ancient usages and forms consistent and right in the Jewish dispensation, are now obsolete and should be abrogated” (The Rays and the Initiations, by Alice Bailey , pp.533/4).

Alice Bailey wrote a chapter entitled, “The Jewish Problem” (A Treatise on the Seven Rays, Vol. 1, pp.393/401); She asserted that “The major racial problem has... been the Jewish” (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p.194); alleged that one of only two major streams of negative energy flows from the Jews (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, pp, 71/4); claimed that, “Today the Jewish people are engineering trouble” (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p.634); and declared “The Jews need humility more than any other nation” (The Rays and the Initiations, p.706).

According to Alice Bailey, Jews are spiritually unlike any other extant life-forms and even more alien to us than hypothetical extra-terrestrials, being the remnants of a previous universe who failed to qualify for the next evolutionary stage and were therefore held over to this universe (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, pp.76/78). Mrs. Bailey insisted of this super extra-ordinary libel: “It is simply a fact to be accepted by you” (ibid.). However, in a forward attributed to her Tibetan Master and repeated in several books, s/he concluded, “There can be no insistence for the acceptance of any statement, beyond what the reader can personally confirm, otherwise, ‘let not the student accept what is said’” (e.g., The Rays and the Initiations, p.vi). You will find that outside her pseudo-Masonic group no serious Mason accepts anything she has to say. This is why true Masonic bodies have always stayed away from any conceptions promoted by A.U.M. and why most have suspended all relations with the A.U.M., for example:

http://i39.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0620/75/5302bfe39c9df5a65dab452074bc7975.jpg

A basic study of Masonry will further reveal how what Bailey promoted is not, and never was, anything comparable to Freemasonry.

exu156
20-06-2012, 02:20 AM
Exu's guru Aleister Crowley:

Now speaking of nonsense where do we start with this one? Perhaps with your excellent source of information?

http://secretarcana.com/influentialfigures/aleister-crowley-and-his-legacy/

:D

CROWLEY WAS AN ELITE INTELLIGENCE AGENT. ELITE. CROWLEY WAS AN AGENT OF THE ELITES.

You support this claim by mentioning Richard B. Spence’s Agent 666. Have you got the book? Have you read the book? Do you know if its well sourced? Do you know anything?

Luckily I have this book so I will tell you a little about it.

The main source for the book is a con artist named Amado Crowley. This character claimed that he was the illegitimate child of Crowley and that he had previously unknown information. So here is where the story gets funny.

Author G M Kelly says:
"Amado", in his book, frequently rationalizes his reasons for not giving dates and names that would, if his stories were true, verify those stories; he frequently justifies his attempts to be mysterious with tales of what can only be described as paranoid delusions, and throughout it all he says "trust me". Well, if you did you would be a fool for doing so. Even if it was proven that "Amado Crowley" is the biological son of Aleister Crowley, his book proves that he is not a Thelemite, he does not understand Thelema, he does not understand Crowley nor his teachings, and by studying the works of Aleister Crowley, one might for ones self discover more of his "secrets" than would be possible from reading or listening to the senseless babble of the man who calls himself "Amado Crowley".

[source: http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/7069/amado.html]

Richard B. Spence claims that Amado Crowley provided him with the information he needed to write the book. Wow we are on the right track now :D

Amado is not a credible source because:

a) His books contain no supporting evidence (which is strange considering that Spence claims that it was Amado who gave him the research papers).
b) His names and dates don't 'add up'
c) Aleister never mentioned him (and Crowley's friends, associates and even enemies never mentioned Amado)
d) There are no photos, or 'external' evidence (not even one)
e) He doesn't understand Thelema and gets basic facts about Crowley completely wrong
f) None of his work is ever sourced.
g) His views are 'outdated', and delusional.

But there's more. You should look for Gerald Suster's review of Amado's books: he does a pretty good job of demolishing Amado's claims: some of Amado's dates are just impossible. But don't stop there.

Pete Carroll (Chaos magick author) had a few experiences with Amado and he discovered that his real name appears to be Mike, and that he was a college lecturer in Brighton.

But there's more. It would later be inferred from his 1991 book, The Secrets of Aleister Crowley, that his name was registered at birth as Andrew Standish. [Source: Dr Dave Evans, The Enchantment of (Fabricated) Magical Memory: Amado Crowley, (2007) pages 230-231]

But there's more. In his review of Amado Crowley's book, author Gerald Suster wrote:

"Amado claims in his book that Aleister taught him between the ages of 7 and 14: i.e.1937–1944. If so, why isn't there a single mention of this vital matter in Crowley's Diaries? There he records matters as trivial as the breaking of a tooth or the quality of his dinner: but he does not see fit to record meetings with an initiation of a son destined to be his successor." [Source: http://www.montaukproject.com/_disc1/000021d3.htm and mentioned here: Amado Crowley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crowley's basic doctrine:

You wouldn't have the slightest clue what his 'basic doctrine' was. Not even close. This is further confirmed by this:

Crowley's drawing of Aiwass:

http://secretarcana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/aiwass-e1302289191594.jpg

You don't even know that this is a depiction of Lam not Aiwass. You further prove that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Crowley said that something big was necessary to happen before the New Aeon (New Age, New Order of the Ages, Novus Ordo Seclorum, New World Order) could come about:

http://raumfahrer.wordpress.com/manson/crowley-on-sacrifice/

A total and complete misunderstanding of what Crowley is talking about. This has already been discussed on this forum numerous times and I really can't be bothered repeating it again. Use the search function.

Alice Bailey, Externalization of the Hierarchy:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/externalisation/exte1082.html

Why would you bring up Alice Bailey? Can you show me one passage from all of Crowley's writings where he mentions Bailey? What has Bailey got to do with Thelema?

Your follow-up post with a picture of Jay-z as a 'follower of Crowley' is simply too stupid to deserve a lengthy reply so I will refrain from any further comment. Your nonsensical ramblings more than speak for themselves.

I think best you stick to the Biblical verse creaming (oops I mean screaming) because your handle on basic esoteric history is simply laughable.

valmar
20-06-2012, 03:40 AM
I love you, and I will pray for you. :)

You didn't answer his question...or are you just lost for words now? You don't "love" passerbye, and you certainly won't be doing any meaningful prayers for him to your...uh, "god". Passerbye doesn't want your love and prayers if I'm right. Right, passerbye?

Tell me cramhankie...do you truly understand what love is? How do YOU define love? Also, provide your definition of the word "pray"(verb). Please, tell us...it'd be so enlightening. Is your version of love the same as that of Jesus, he who attained Christ consciousness and spoke of his beloved Father in the same sense?

To me, love is about the powerful bond and connection that there is between living beings. At the beginning of the Matrix Revolutions, when Neo is speaking to that guy at the train station, the words regarding love are just beautiful.

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Now speaking of nonsense where do we start with this one? Perhaps with your excellent source of information?

I will just let people read the book and decide for themselves.

You wouldn't have the slightest clue what his 'basic doctrine' was. Not even close. This is further confirmed by this:

Yeah....um I'm pretty sure that when he said "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", that counts as basic doctrine.

You don't even know that this is a depiction of Lam not Aiwass. You further prove that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Oh whoops, I got my demons confused lol. I actually did know that was Lam, Vigilant screwed that one up and I carried his mistake over.

My old buddy Vigilant. Christians, please pray for Vigilant, he has yet to accept the Gospel Truth that is right in front of him.

Why would you bring up Alice Bailey? Can you show me one passage from all of Crowley's writings where he mentions Bailey? What has Bailey got to do with Thelema?

Self-divinity.

Your follow-up post with a picture of Jay-z as a 'follower of Crowley' is simply too stupid to deserve a lengthy reply so I will refrain from any further comment. Your nonsensical ramblings more than speak for themselves.

I think best you stick to the Biblical verse creaming (oops I mean screaming) because your handle on basic esoteric history is simply laughable.

I love you Exu, I am praying for ya. :)

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Too much nonsense to deserve a serious reply. Alice Bailey had nothing to do with true Freemasonry. She was obsessed with Christian mumbo jumbo and like so many generations before was awaiting the coming of Jesus as the messiah:

Amazon.com: The Reappearance of the Christ (9780853301141): Alice A. Bailey: Books (http://www.amazon.com/The-Reappearance-Christ-Alice-Bailey/dp/085330114X)

Alice Bailey = Passerbye999.

A Satanic occultist who dressed up the Chaos Serpent's doctrine in Christian terminology.

Within Masonic circles Bailey has always been viewed as a crackpot. Her contact with the supposed master Djwhal Khul was very dubious because at times it would seem this being was purely spiritual (no physical body) and yet, when convenient to her stories, it was very much flesh and blood. An example of this was when Jung essentially said that her works were wonderful, but that they probably came to Bailey from the Great Archetypal Unconscious through her "Higher Self," and not from some (imagined) Tibetan Lama. To which Bailey replied, "Perhaps Dr. Jung can explain how my "Higher self" sends me packages of incense from India!"

Bailey has her following, Jung has his following, Crowley has his following, and all of y'all are working for the same Snake.

Bailey was channeling demons, no doubt about it. I couldn't care less who sent her incense from India, probably some demon-possessed Aryan Brahman.

Bailey's form of Masonry was established in a group she started with her husband Foster called Grand Lodge Ancient Universal Mysteries or A.U.M. for short. The Baileys intrusive interest in Freemasonry arises from their notion of it being one of three main channels preparing us for a new age [Source: The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, by Alice Bailey page. 511]

And she was exactly right about Freemasonry.

However, while Freemasonry can be defined as, "A peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols," Foster Bailey regards it as, "A system of symbols" (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey, p.27). The distinction is made clear with him deeming morality as one of Masonry’s insufficient 'rewards' (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey, p.82) and he was dismissive of those Masons, "occupied entirely with its ethical implications" (The Spirit of Masonry, by Foster Bailey p.81).

This amoral attitude is particularly apparent when we consider the anti-Semitic changes the Baileys wished to impose on Freemasonry. Foster Bailey stated: “Masonry with its Jewish names and historical incidents, has come into serious disrepute” (The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey p.37). Alice Bailey concurred, stating: “This Jewish colouring is today one of the main hindrances to the full expression of Masonic intention and should be changed” (The Rays and the Initiations, by Alice Bailey , p.418). She went on to say: “Its present form, resting as it does on a Jewish foundation which is nearly five thousand years old, must disappear... the ancient usages and forms consistent and right in the Jewish dispensation, are now obsolete and should be abrogated” (The Rays and the Initiations, by Alice Bailey , pp.533/4).

Alice Bailey wrote a chapter entitled, “The Jewish Problem” (A Treatise on the Seven Rays, Vol. 1, pp.393/401); She asserted that “The major racial problem has... been the Jewish” (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p.194); alleged that one of only two major streams of negative energy flows from the Jews (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, pp, 71/4); claimed that, “Today the Jewish people are engineering trouble” (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p.634); and declared “The Jews need humility more than any other nation” (The Rays and the Initiations, p.706).

According to Alice Bailey, Jews are spiritually unlike any other extant life-forms and even more alien to us than hypothetical extra-terrestrials, being the remnants of a previous universe who failed to qualify for the next evolutionary stage and were therefore held over to this universe (The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, pp.76/78). Mrs. Bailey insisted of this super extra-ordinary libel: “It is simply a fact to be accepted by you” (ibid.). However, in a forward attributed to her Tibetan Master and repeated in several books, s/he concluded, “There can be no insistence for the acceptance of any statement, beyond what the reader can personally confirm, otherwise, ‘let not the student accept what is said’” (e.g., The Rays and the Initiations, p.vi). You will find that outside her pseudo-Masonic group no serious Mason accepts anything she has to say. This is why true Masonic bodies have always stayed away from any conceptions promoted by A.U.M. and why most have suspended all relations with the A.U.M., for example:

A basic study of Masonry will further reveal how what Bailey promoted is not, and never was, anything comparable to Freemasonry.

I think I already went over this.

Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy, and her student Alice Bailey's Lucis Trust, being rooted in Hindu/Buddhist occultism are the foundation for Team Everybody Else Globalist, whereas Freemasonry is rooted instead in Western Babylonian and Egyptian Kabbalist occultism and is the foundation for Team Zionist Globalist.

There's no difference between them at the core self-divinity Chaos Serpent doctrine.

There always has to be Thesis vs Antithesis to produce Synthesis.

The Hegelian Dialectic works like a charm.

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 12:12 PM
Your follow-up post with a picture of Jay-z as a 'follower of Crowley' is simply too stupid to deserve a lengthy reply so I will refrain from any further comment. Your nonsensical ramblings more than speak for themselves.

Christian Rapper disses Jay Z back for Jesus Christ - YouTube

Christian Rapper Bizzle Disses Jay-z., Rick Ross and Kanye West - YouTube

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 12:26 PM
You didn't answer his question...or are you just lost for words now? You don't "love" passerbye, and you certainly won't be doing any meaningful prayers for him to your...uh, "god". Passerbye doesn't want your love and prayers if I'm right. Right, passerbye?

Passerbye gets my love and prayers whether he wants it or not. So do you. :)

Tell me cramhankie...do you truly understand what love is? How do YOU define love? Also, provide your definition of the word "pray"(verb). Please, tell us...it'd be so enlightening. Is your version of love the same as that of Jesus, he who attained Christ consciousness and spoke of his beloved Father in the same sense?

"Christ consciousness" is Alice Bailey's lie, calling the Spirit of the Antichrist good.

Here is my definition of love:

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Here is my definition of prayer:

Talking to my Daddy. :)

To me, love is about the powerful bond and connection that there is between living beings. At the beginning of the Matrix Revolutions, when Neo is speaking to that guy at the train station, the words regarding love are just beautiful.

Figures you would take your idea of love from a MSM elite mind control film.

Why do you think that the MSM controlled by Freemasons made a movie series all about occult Satanic Masonic Gnosticism?

<Neo is the Antichrist>

<Check out 9:22 to see Solomon's Temple.>

http://www.templemount.org/templesolomon.jpg

The Matrix- illuminati revelations - YouTube

The guy who made the movie about orthodox Jesus, even though he is a brainwashed Catholic, even if it is sad that he made Jesus white, is pretty much blacklisted by the Hollywood Jews.

http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/gibson-mugshot/mel-gibson-mug-shot-01.jpg

valmar
20-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Alice Bailey = Passerbye999.

Oh really, now? Fuck, the way you talk about any non-cramhankie-styled-Christian religion, you might as well be one of them. You invented these concepts and so you become them.

You become what you hate, cram. Simple. I noticed you seem to have stopped replying to me. Bah, I don't whether you reply or not. Your posts show your sheer ARROGANCE! It's sickening, to say the least. Posting stuff like this without proof IS an example of arrogance. You provide no proof except empty words.

Prove that passerbye is said person or stop. Or were you merely making another haphazard comparison? :mad::(:rolleyes:

passerbye999
20-06-2012, 12:40 PM
You didn't answer his question...or are you just lost for words now? You don't "love" passerbye, and you certainly won't be doing any meaningful prayers for him to your...uh, "god". Passerbye doesn't want your love and prayers if I'm right. Right, passerbye?

Tell me cramhankie...do you truly understand what love is? How do YOU define love? Also, provide your definition of the word "pray"(verb). Please, tell us...it'd be so enlightening. Is your version of love the same as that of Jesus, he who attained Christ consciousness and spoke of his beloved Father in the same sense?

To me, love is about the powerful bond and connection that there is between living beings. At the beginning of the Matrix Revolutions, when Neo is speaking to that guy at the train station, the words regarding love are just beautiful.

That is his way of saying he doesn't want to debate with me anymore because he preaches to me and I preach to him right back. I don't think he likes it much. Don't worry valmar he can pray to the demuirge all he wants or to Jesus either way he may as well be praying to himself, actually that is what he is doing.;)

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Prove that passerbye is said person or stop. Or were you merely making another haphazard comparison? :mad::(:rolleyes:

Alice Bailey died and went to hell on December 15, 1949.

Her spiritual counterpart Passerbye999 is still physically alive, though he is spiritually dead, and thus still has a shot at avoiding hell if he repents of his evil witchcraft and accepts the real Jesus as Savior.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

valmar
20-06-2012, 01:16 PM
That is his way of saying he doesn't want to debate with me anymore because he preaches to me and I preach to him right back. I don't think he likes it much. Don't worry valmar he can pray to the demuirge all he wants or to Jesus either way he may as well be praying to himself, actually that is what he is doing.;)

Ah, fuck him. He's hopeless. It's sort of amusing I guess. Nothing better to do when you're bored...go fundamentalist hunting! *chucks net* :p

valmar
20-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Alice Bailey died and went to hell on December 15, 1949.

Her spiritual counterpart Passerbye999 is still physically alive, though he is spiritually dead, and thus still has a shot at avoiding hell if he repents of his evil witchcraft and accepts the real Jesus as Savior.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Hahahahahahaha!! :D:D:D:D:D Ah, this is too much...please, stop! You're killing me with you're rubbish! Ahahahahah...:D What a good laugh...may the demiurge send you his anger...:D

passerbye999
20-06-2012, 01:21 PM
cramhankie;1060893651]Alice Bailey = Passerbye999.
A Satanic occultist who dressed up the Chaos Serpent's doctrine in Christian terminology.
Bailey has her following, Jung has his following, Crowley has his following, and all of y'all are working for the same Snake.

Ah cramhankie why don't you talk to me directly. Now I'm Alice Bailey very interesting indeed. Your definition of her and your comparisons of her to those other notable people is quite enlightening. Jung was a genius modern psychology wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him, he also had a hand in the principles for modern psychiatry.

Thanks to Jung we treat the ill with modern techniques and madicine instead of exorcising them or burning them at the stake. As for Crowley he had a hand at forming various different disciplines and people still use his theories to this day. I don't personally but I am learning he does have many similar views though some of his views I really don't care for.

Back to Jung I am extremely happy about his and Freuds work for it has helped me personally in my life in a physical way. Since the snake stands for medicine, liberty, enlightenment and over all well being it is a symbol I find I like very much. I bought my son a snake they are cool animals.

Now if your referring to the Adversary he is not a snake he is the demuirge. we have gone over this. He pretends to be the unknown God by using the powers of his parents YHWH and Sophia and by pretending to be an angel of light. His doctrines are easy to see; genocide, sacrifice, slavery, evangelism etc.. He makes you kneel before him in servitude for he is a jealous god.

Where the true God , the unknown, unseen God asks none of these things and comes to whom he comes and draws those unto him who he chooses. Sophia takes care of that. Evangelism is unnecessary God takes care of it Himself. The spirit you feel is Sophias but she is not sending it for she gave her power to her son Yaldoboath who sends it out to his slaves to make them convert others to become slaves.

My powers , my divinity and my self awareness (empty mindful awareness) comes from my soul, mind and spirit. From years of practicing Ch'an/Taoist Yoga. My physical prowess comes from years of studying and practicing kung fu. The unknown God directed me on this path and encouraged me but gave me nothing but that. Sophia gives me discernment and wisdom.

There are no demons in me there is nothing in me but myself. I am, that is the essence of my being. It is what makes me a god. Made in the image of the Elohim. I have no intention to pray for you , convert you, or save your soul. That is up to you. It is between you and the unknown God YHWH Elohim. YHWH is kind and gentle, He is sure of himself so he is not jealous; there is no malice in him so he won't kill any of his children or cause them harm.

The adversary is his child too. All that exists is children of YHWH and Sophia, even a dung beetle. From the smallest shrub to the tallest tree. From particles to single cellular organisms. Everything that has energy in it , so everything is an offsping of the Holy Union. Everything lives then dies then lives again then dies it is the eternal cycle. We are all the Logos being in the mind of God we are with him now , we were with him in the beginning and we will be with him in the end all in the same moment to him.

Wrap your head around that. The past, the present and the future is all now. This is how we are eternal. So what is life and death, good and evil, black and white?

Life and death, day and night,
flowers bloom and then they wither
only today do I realize
my nose points downwards.

passerbye999
20-06-2012, 01:27 PM
Alice Bailey died and went to hell on December 15, 1949.

Her spiritual counterpart Passerbye999 is still physically alive, though he is spiritually dead, and thus still has a shot at avoiding hell if he repents of his evil witchcraft and accepts the real Jesus as Savior.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

My spirit is a radiant body of light. Not Gods light for no human can attain that but equal to any god. Heaven and hell are a state of mind , they are here and now. I'm already in the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of the Spirit. You could be too if you stopped walking in the darkness and embraced the light. Then worked for many years on the secret teachings. You can find them in the Esoteric Christianity thread I posted them all there but one.

cramhankie
20-06-2012, 01:50 PM
Too bad you aren't a rich celebrity, you would fit right in with Madonna at the Kabbalah Center.

passerbye999
20-06-2012, 08:39 PM
Too bad you aren't a rich celebrity, you would fit right in with Madonna at the Kabbalah Center.

Maybe but I doubt it. I study and practice on my own. I did the organised thing for a few years wasn't my cup of tea. They have kabbalah centers in every city. If I was to do something like that I would go to a normal one without bidwigs. I study the Zohar that is enough.

There lots of hot chicks at that center though it makes it a plus.:)

cwl3
20-06-2012, 11:12 PM
What I find interesting from what I've read of Islam and the OT is that it comes across as written in the same style, suggesting to me that it has came from the same source, same deity.

A lot of Judaism texts and the Quran come across to me as a sort of instruction manual on how to live to obtain eternal life.

So it makes me wonder if the Quran really was an updated version of the OT word, as it comes across as if it is from the same source.

Question is (well for me but maybe not so much a part of what the thread is about unfortunately) is which deity are these instructions coming from eg the surpeme God or a god which made the universe etc.

passerbye999
21-06-2012, 01:04 AM
What I find interesting from what I've read of Islam and the OT is that it comes across as written in the same style, suggesting to me that it has came from the same source, same deity.

A lot of Judaism texts and the Quran come across to me as a sort of instruction manual on how to live to obtain eternal life.

So it makes me wonder if the Quran really was an updated version of the OT word, as it comes across as if it is from the same source.

Question is (well for me but maybe not so much a part of what the thread is about unfortunately) is which deity are these instructions coming from eg the surpeme God or a god which made the universe etc.

I can only give an opinion on that question for it made me think. I believe it is all theosophy,Theological philosophy based on spiritual experiences of the writers. So the answer to your question will vary with each interpretation of the readers. I believe it is inspired by God, god and man but like I said my own personal opinion be it right or wrong.

bendoon
21-06-2012, 01:19 AM
If you remember, Ishmael was the first born of Abraham but was passed over in favour of Isaac, this meant that the Arabs who claim to be descendants of Ishmael were not Gods "chosen" people but the Israelites were. The Koran was simply a way of circumventing the Bible story and making the Ishmaelites the chosen ones instead of the Israelites. Simple as that really.

cwl3
21-06-2012, 01:28 AM
I can only give an opinion on that question for it made me think. I believe it is all theosophy,Theological philosophy based on spiritual experiences of the writers. So the answer to your question will vary with each interpretation of the readers. I believe it is inspired by God, god and man but like I said my own personal opinion be it right or wrong.

Thanks. I will try to come back to it myself when my mind is clearer, too much burning the candle at both ends recently :D

cramhankie
21-06-2012, 02:32 AM
What I find interesting from what I've read of Islam and the OT is that it comes across as written in the same style, suggesting to me that it has came from the same source, same deity.

A lot of Judaism texts and the Quran come across to me as a sort of instruction manual on how to live to obtain eternal life.

So it makes me wonder if the Quran really was an updated version of the OT word, as it comes across as if it is from the same source.

Question is (well for me but maybe not so much a part of what the thread is about unfortunately) is which deity are these instructions coming from eg the surpeme God or a god which made the universe etc.

The Dead Sea Scrolls proved Islam wrong.

Mohammed said that the Bible had been corrupted, but the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that the Old Testament Scriptures 600 years before Mohammed said the same as they do now.

Mohammed was a very evil man, a cult leader who mind-controlled his followers into thieving and looting caravans and capturing slaves, and later all out war to force Islamic government on everyone.

He told his jihadist followers it was okay to rape the women whose husbands, brothers and sons they had just slaughtered:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam

From the Hadith:

Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess". That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period." [The Quran verse is 4:24]
Abu Dawud 2:2150

Sahih Muslim. Chapter 29: Title: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified of menses or delivery. In case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran 4:. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Sahih Muslim 8:3432

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459

Coitus interruptus is when the man pulls out before he ejaculates.

Mohammed said it was better if his jihadist terrorist followers went ahead and ejaculated in the women they were raping.

The Qur'an says it is okay for Muslim men to marry and have sex with girls who have not yet reached the age of puberty and menstruated.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in_the_Qur%27an

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible.
Commentary on Qur'an Chapter 65:4
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, Tafhim al-Qur'an

When Mohammed was 51 he married Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr, when she was 6 or 7 years old, and then first had sex with her when she was 8 or 9 years old.

He was a disgusting child molestor like a Catholic priest.

IRANIAN HIZBOLLAH MUSLIM SOLDIER MEETS JESUS :) :) :)

A Muslim Man's AMAZING Testimony about Jesus (1 of 2) - YouTube

A Muslim Man's AMAZING Testimony about Jesus (2 of 2) - YouTube

cramhankie
28-06-2012, 09:54 PM
http://sealofsolomon.tripod.com/CABAQUOT.HTM

"The Kabalah is indeed of the essence of Freemasonry." -- co-Mason Helena P. Blavatsky, co-founder of the Theosophical Society, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 236

"Freemasonry is kabbalism in another garb." -- Freemason F. De P. Castelle, "The Genuine Secrets of Freemasony Prior to A.D. 1717", according to secondary source Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star by Dr. Cathy Burns, page 263

"Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences." -- Albert Pike, 33rd Degree Mason, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 219

"The Jewish mysteries are the source of our present tradition of which was carried to Rome, and thence passed down through the Collegia into the mediaveal guilds, finally emerging in the eighteenth century in the speculative rituals fo the Craft degrees, in the Holy Royal Arch and the degree of Mark Master Mason, and in those of other emblems and ceremonies..." -- Freemason C.W. Leadbeater, Freemasonry and its Ancient Mystic Rites , page 77

"The whole basis of our theory is the Qabalah...." -- Aleister Crowley, Freemason and father of modern satanism as quoted in Craig Heimbichner's Blood On The Altar, page 116; primary source is Magic In Theory and Practice by the self-professed "Beast-666" himself, Crowley.

"....the theories of Qabbalism are inextricably interwoven with the tenets of alchemy, Hermeticism, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry." -- 33rd Degree Freemason Manly Palmer Hall, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 220

"...in the Kabbala we find fragments of the symbolic knowledge which was once the exclusive property of the initiates. So close are the analogiews between certain of the doctrines of the Kabbala and those of the earlier degrees of Masonry, that it has been supposed that Kabbalistic students were responsible for the introduction of speculative Masonry into our modern Craft. The student of occultism does not hold this veiw, for he knows that our speculative rituals belong in substance to a far older past than the eighteenth century, and that they perpetuate the tradition of the Jews, who derived it from the Mysteries of Egypt. He sees in the Kabbala a written and exoteric portiion of certain teachings belonging to the Jews, though handed down...." -- Freemasonry and Its Ancient Mystic Rites, C.W. Leadbeater, page 73

"The Cabala may be defined to be a system of philosophy which embraces certain mystical interpretations of Scripture, and metaphysical and spiritual beings... Much use is made of it in the advanced degrees, and entire Rites have been constructed on its principles." -- Albert Mackey, Mason, Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, page 220

"Masonry cannot be fully appreciated or understood without knowledge of the Qabalist Tree of Life..." -- Paul Foster case, Freemason and Golden Dawn member, considered to be the outstanding authority of Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, and other occult topics, as quoted by Cathy Burns, Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star, page 263

"...all Masonic associations owe to it [Kabala] their secrets and their symbols." --Eliphas Levi, Transcendental Magic, as quoted from secondary source, Fallen Angel, Thomas Friend, page 241 [brackets mine; Levi was a 19th century Freemason and magician, whose works were plaigarized by infamous Freemason, Albert Pike, according to Freemason Manly Hall.]

"For the good of Masonry, generally, but for the Jewish nation in particular. Royal Arch Degree of Freemasonry" -- quoted from Craig Heimbichner's book Blood On The Altar, page 83. Pictured here is the Masonic Jewel, Royal Arch, 7th Degree rite in which York Rite Freemasons pledge allegiance to the Jewish nation. The Masonic jewell of this rite is Solomon's Seal with a sun blazing inside a triange in the center.

"The true philosophy, known and practised by Solomon, is the basis on which Masonry is founded." -- Albert Pike, Freemason of the 33rd and last Degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry, 1871, L.H. Jenkins Inc., p. 785.

"According to Talmudic legends, Solomon understood the mysteries of the Qabbalah. He was also a necromancer, being able to summon demons." -- Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Freemason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 566.

"Freemasonry is founded upon the activities of this secret society of Central European adepts, whom the studious Mason will find to be the definite 'link' between the modern Craft and the Ancient Wisdom. The outer body of Masonic philosophy was merely the veil of this qabbalistic order whose members were the custodians of the true Arcanum." -- 33rd Degree Freemason Manly Palmer Hall, "Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins"

"The basis of the Western occultism of medieval is the Kabbalah of the medieval Hebrew Rabbis." William Wynn Westcott, a Freemason, "The Rosicrucians: Past and Present, At Home and Abroad, an Address to the Soc. Rosic. In Anglia

"That great Kabbilistical association known in Europe under the name of Masonry appeared suddenly in the world when the revolt against the Church had just succeeded in dismembering Christian unity." -- Eliphas Levi, Freemason, black magician and Qabalist, author of Trancendental Magic, Mysteries of the Qabalah, and The History of Magic, from whence this quote was derived, page 283, here notes that Freemasonry is a Cabalist institution and suggests that it became public after of the destruction of Christian unity that followed in the wake of the Reformation, which it likely had no small part in effecting in this author's opinion.

"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us dire- ctly back, as you see, to the Kaballah." -- Freemason Albert Pike, 33rd Degree, as quoted in Ankerberg and Weldon's book, Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, page 217

exu156
29-06-2012, 02:33 AM
http://sealofsolomon.tripod.com/CABAQUOT.HTM

"The Kabalah is indeed of the essence of Freemasonry." -- co-Mason Helena P. Blavatsky, co-founder of the Theosophical Society, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 236

"Freemasonry is kabbalism in another garb." -- Freemason F. De P. Castelle, "The Genuine Secrets of Freemasony Prior to A.D. 1717", according to secondary source Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star by Dr. Cathy Burns, page 263

"Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences." -- Albert Pike, 33rd Degree Mason, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 219

"The Jewish mysteries are the source of our present tradition of which was carried to Rome, and thence passed down through the Collegia into the mediaveal guilds, finally emerging in the eighteenth century in the speculative rituals fo the Craft degrees, in the Holy Royal Arch and the degree of Mark Master Mason, and in those of other emblems and ceremonies..." -- Freemason C.W. Leadbeater, Freemasonry and its Ancient Mystic Rites , page 77

"The whole basis of our theory is the Qabalah...." -- Aleister Crowley, Freemason and father of modern satanism as quoted in Craig Heimbichner's Blood On The Altar, page 116; primary source is Magic In Theory and Practice by the self-professed "Beast-666" himself, Crowley.

"....the theories of Qabbalism are inextricably interwoven with the tenets of alchemy, Hermeticism, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry." -- 33rd Degree Freemason Manly Palmer Hall, as quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, by Ankerberg and Weldon, page 220

"...in the Kabbala we find fragments of the symbolic knowledge which was once the exclusive property of the initiates. So close are the analogiews between certain of the doctrines of the Kabbala and those of the earlier degrees of Masonry, that it has been supposed that Kabbalistic students were responsible for the introduction of speculative Masonry into our modern Craft. The student of occultism does not hold this veiw, for he knows that our speculative rituals belong in substance to a far older past than the eighteenth century, and that they perpetuate the tradition of the Jews, who derived it from the Mysteries of Egypt. He sees in the Kabbala a written and exoteric portiion of certain teachings belonging to the Jews, though handed down...." -- Freemasonry and Its Ancient Mystic Rites, C.W. Leadbeater, page 73

"The Cabala may be defined to be a system of philosophy which embraces certain mystical interpretations of Scripture, and metaphysical and spiritual beings... Much use is made of it in the advanced degrees, and entire Rites have been constructed on its principles." -- Albert Mackey, Mason, Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, quoted from secondary source Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, page 220

"Masonry cannot be fully appreciated or understood without knowledge of the Qabalist Tree of Life..." -- Paul Foster case, Freemason and Golden Dawn member, considered to be the outstanding authority of Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, and other occult topics, as quoted by Cathy Burns, Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star, page 263

"...all Masonic associations owe to it [Kabala] their secrets and their symbols." --Eliphas Levi, Transcendental Magic, as quoted from secondary source, Fallen Angel, Thomas Friend, page 241 [brackets mine; Levi was a 19th century Freemason and magician, whose works were plaigarized by infamous Freemason, Albert Pike, according to Freemason Manly Hall.]

"For the good of Masonry, generally, but for the Jewish nation in particular. Royal Arch Degree of Freemasonry" -- quoted from Craig Heimbichner's book Blood On The Altar, page 83. Pictured here is the Masonic Jewel, Royal Arch, 7th Degree rite in which York Rite Freemasons pledge allegiance to the Jewish nation. The Masonic jewell of this rite is Solomon's Seal with a sun blazing inside a triange in the center.

"The true philosophy, known and practised by Solomon, is the basis on which Masonry is founded." -- Albert Pike, Freemason of the 33rd and last Degree, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry, 1871, L.H. Jenkins Inc., p. 785.

"According to Talmudic legends, Solomon understood the mysteries of the Qabbalah. He was also a necromancer, being able to summon demons." -- Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Freemason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 566.

"Freemasonry is founded upon the activities of this secret society of Central European adepts, whom the studious Mason will find to be the definite 'link' between the modern Craft and the Ancient Wisdom. The outer body of Masonic philosophy was merely the veil of this qabbalistic order whose members were the custodians of the true Arcanum." -- 33rd Degree Freemason Manly Palmer Hall, "Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins"

"The basis of the Western occultism of medieval is the Kabbalah of the medieval Hebrew Rabbis." William Wynn Westcott, a Freemason, "The Rosicrucians: Past and Present, At Home and Abroad, an Address to the Soc. Rosic. In Anglia

"That great Kabbilistical association known in Europe under the name of Masonry appeared suddenly in the world when the revolt against the Church had just succeeded in dismembering Christian unity." -- Eliphas Levi, Freemason, black magician and Qabalist, author of Trancendental Magic, Mysteries of the Qabalah, and The History of Magic, from whence this quote was derived, page 283, here notes that Freemasonry is a Cabalist institution and suggests that it became public after of the destruction of Christian unity that followed in the wake of the Reformation, which it likely had no small part in effecting in this author's opinion.

"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us dire- ctly back, as you see, to the Kaballah." -- Freemason Albert Pike, 33rd Degree, as quoted in Ankerberg and Weldon's book, Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge, page 217

yeah... and?