Why is it so hard to open people's eyes?

[apostata]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

[jane_d]

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.

Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

Exactly... I did the same and faced the same. I think, it's a fear. They are intimidated by their damn god and they are in the mental prison. And David Icke wrote recently about possession... Some of religious people (not all) who are deeply immersed in what is written in the Bible, made impression for me that they are some kind of possessed. I look at them, but not at them. It is not their personal reactions and feelings. If you look closely, you can see that they react on certain things identically, and it's not their true nature. This is completely manipulated nature. Sometimes I see the true nature (love and kind) of them and it's like a breath of fresh air for me. But often I just see what I'm talking with someone, but I'm not with him, I'm talking with a puppet with a certain logic. After a while you start to see this logic and how it manifests itself in many aspects of life. It is completely inverted. Black is white and white is black. (if we think in these terms). What they call love and freedom - is tyranny and slavery. And you can notice that their logic often argue that the shape is more important than content. Wherever the name of Jesus is written - it's good! Everything else is bad and "from the devil". End of story. Damn!

Fortunately, their natural empathy is keeping these people from the very insane acts.

I don't know ... I'm just saying from time to time in hope that one day he / she will get it ... But for now, after talks on these topics I want to bang my head against the wall. I just hear in my address that I'm stupid and I understand nothing. Yeah..

They are not bad and they can be very good in their actions sometimes, but they have an element of aggression and I don't like this. I'm just sorry for them. They are in a terrible prison.

[nowitsperfect]

Just listen.

OSHO: My God There Is No God - YouTube

[butters]

Exactly... I did the same and faced the same. I think, it's a fear. They are intimidated by their damn god and they are in the mental prison. And David Icke wrote recently about possession... Some of religious people (not all) who are deeply immersed in what is written in the Bible, made impression for me that they are some kind of possessed. I look at them, but not on them. It is not their personal reactions and feelings. If you look closely, you can see that they react on certain things identically, and it's not their true nature. This is completely manipulated nature. Sometimes I see the true nature (love and kind) of them and it's like a breath of fresh air for me. But often I just see what I'm talking with someone, but I'm not with him, I'm talking with a puppet with a certain logic. After a while you start to see this logic and how it manifests itself in many aspects of life. It is completely inverted. Black is white and white is black. (if we think in these terms). What they call love and freedom - is tyranny and slavery. And you can notice that their logic often argue that the shape is more important than content. Wherever the name of Jesus is written - it's good! Everything else is bad and "from the devil". End of story. Damn!

Fortunately, their natural empathy is keeping these people from the very insane acts.

I don't know ... I'm just saying from time to time in hope that one day he / she will get it ... But for now, after talks on these topics I want to bang my head against the wall. I just hear in my address that I'm stupid and I understand nothing. Yeah..

They are not bad and they can be very good in their actions sometimes, but they have an element of aggression and I don't like this. I'm just sorry for them. They are in a terrible prison.


What if the purpose of our being is to watch everything unravel as the universe allows and take a step back whilst developing ourselves.

Maybe the individuals who can see what is happening are here to learn the most from the ones who are in this prison where there is no colour inbetween black and white?

I understand the frustration that you express, but take a light hearted approach and enjoy it all unfolding, as it should be, after all we are not the general managers of the universe, we are sent here for some reason, but what that reason is differs from individual to individual.

What if these people are not supposed to awake from this stage in theri pesonal development plan, maybe this is the life lesson to work through issues albeit in an ignorant manner.

Be patient and watch the cosmic play unfold.

;)

[jane_d]

What if the purpose of our being is to watch everything unravel as the universe allows and take a step back whilst developing ourselves.

Maybe the individuals who can see what is happening are here to learn the most from the ones who are in this prison where there is no colour inbetween black and white?

I understand the frustration that you express, but take a light hearted approach and enjoy it all unfolding, as it should be, after all we are not the general managers of the universe, we are sent here for some reason, but what that reason is differs from individual to individual.

What if these people are not supposed to awake from this stage in theri pesonal development plan, maybe this is the life lesson to work through issues albeit in an ignorant manner.

Be patient and watch the cosmic play unfold.

;)

Yes... of course, I understand this. It's a cosmic game. We just always have to clarify, from what level of consciousness we are talking. I don't choose only one, I like to think in different levels. ;)

And on some level, you become passionate and a little angry. ;)

[butters]

Yes... of course, I understand this. It's a cosmic game. We just always have to clarify, from what level of consciousness we are talking. I don't choose only one, I like to think in different levels. ;)

And on some level, you become passionate and a little angry. ;)


but in turn you can fall into the entrapment of being on the opposite side of the scale where you chase with the same amount of religious zeal in awakening/converting the sheeple to become awake.

You mention clarifying from different viewpoints but won't this conflict your main purpose?

I appreciate your passion and for wanting to make life a better journey for your fellow man.

;)

[emerald]

Simply coz they're dumb/brainwashed...

[ultimate_warlord]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

MENTION IT...and then...

Drop the subject...If they don`t want to hear it...SAD, but TRUE.

[jane_d]

but in turn you can fall into the entrapment of being on the opposite side of the scale where you chase with the same amount of religious zeal in awakening/converting the sheeple to become awake.

You mention clarifying from different viewpoints but won't this conflict your main purpose?

I appreciate your passion and for wanting to make life a better journey for your fellow man.

;)

No. I understand about "opposite sides"... And I'm not "fighting". I've just written my impressions from one level of consciousness. Look at David Icke, he can talking from different levels. It's expression of "all possibilities".

I think we can choose what level might be relevant in this particular case.

Hey, if you know about human sacrifices, manipulated wars, false flags and who is the "god" in religion, can you not to be passionate and angry? Not for "fighting", but for changing something.

I see some "new-age" people and they simply don't want to talk about these things, because they would be forced to move from one level to another. Where there is not only an understanding that is all an illusion... And I think it's not real awakening. Because they are only on one level. Again.

[apostata]

My intuition still tells me that I have to get the truth out there and I must follow it, it is the very me, my comsic self guiding me.

And I have learned one thing over the past months, follow your heart more than anything.


My biggest problem or "fear" now is, approaching my family. For now I still live abroad but I am going to return home soon. I have not seen my family in about a year when I get home.

Since I truely love them and want to help them I am concerned about the approach. For hours I tried to figure out how to unreveal this story.

Have any of you had any experiences like this with your own relatives, your close family?

[jane_d]

My intuition still tells me that I have to get the truth out there and I must follow it, it is the very me, my comsic self guiding me.

And I have learned one thing over the past months, follow your heart more than anything.


My biggest problem or "fear" now is, approaching my family. For now I still live abroad but I am going to return home soon. I have not seen my family in about a year when I get home.

Since I truely love them and want to help them I am concerned about the approach. For hours I tried to figure out how to unreveal this story.

Have any of you had any experiences like this with your own relatives, your close family?

Unsuccessful with two very religious (one is not my relative but he was a good example ...) . Despite that I was very careful... Well, I think we should not to say everything at once, yes. You can give them leading questions ...

This will require a lot of patience ...

Good luck to you! ;)

[jon galt]

Simply coz they're dumb/brainwashed...

or it could be that a lot of conspiracy theory is demonstrably false (i would use the fmotl forms as an example) or laking in any facts and is purely speculation like king triads amusing antidotes which offer as much proof as a lot of other theorys. even amongst our selfs on these forms many disagree and have opposing theories proclaiming a truth, with many based on bigotry and hate.or it may be the approach that the believers are some how more enlightened than the dumb brainwashed sheep that they are trying to save.

[h2pogo]

Not sure if your on the right track on the no God thing...Probarbly best to stick to the things you can prove.

As for waking people up to NWO...People have the fear..Its not nice to think their government and institutions are run by extremist gangsters who want to exterminate half the population of earth.
Ignorance is bliss for most people.

[apostata]

Actually my plan was never to convince people, all along I tried to help them open their eyes.

These are two completely different things.

I just want them to start questioning the very reality itself. So to say, I want the "stone to get rolling". My idea is to just switch on one little button in their brains, that will make them more critical and they start looking for the truth for themselves.

[terrorworld]

...people have a false concept of 'him': 'He' is not a person, 'he' is just identical with all what is (= nature), but has got (I'm careful here in respect of others: IMO) a consciousness nevertheless. All what exists is 'God' (or better: from Source, The One), even the evil.
Something of the best about it what I've found in a book written by Diethard Stelzl:
God (the Source) was just 'Being' in the beginning and then wanted to experience 'himself'. And 'He' created a being called Luzifer (IMO = Obama, I've got good reasons for believing this) taking over the anti-position to 'himself': the positions of destruction and other evils - anti-creation.
By the way: I had become an atheist for many years, because I couldn't understand why there is so much evil in this world, even with my own severe illness - thinking that I wouldn't deserve this. And I couldn't see any real hint to an existence of the Devil or Satan. And churches tell something about 'You are secure if you believe in God, pray and go to church.' This never convinced me, regarding what happened to others (see Jews under Hitler).

But now: IMO most of the reptilians are what's called the Devil/Satan (etc.), and their minions (plus sheeple with their closed eyes just dismissing truth & denying the existence of extreme evil) are grouped around them.
There is good too, but it isn't very obvious and strong yet.

You can't open the eyes of the masses yet because the contradiction of reality to their coddled consciousness is too extreme. They are lulled to sleep by conformism and consumerism, and they dance on the volcano.
I think masses won't wake up till some obvious gigantic desaster(s) will be revealed. I know which desaster(s) I speak of (of course many 'smaller' ones are already happening, people can research it but they are too lazy).
Another point is the stupidity of many people, sorry.

By the way if I were you then I wouldn't go into the topic with god and Jesus, particularly not with people strictly bound to Church and other firm belief systems. You can't discuss or argue with dogmatic people who are not on the path of truth (searching for truth and justice).

I myself am ready to change my opinion/conviction if I'm being given new good reasons for this, but most people are just stubborn. And I can see this in my own family.

[isabeau]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

There is a Godverse though....:)

[apostata]

...people have a false concept of 'him': 'He' is not a person, 'he' is just identical with all what is (= nature), but has got (I'm careful here in respect of others: IMO) a consciousness nevertheless. All what exists is 'God' (or better: from Source, The One), even the evil.
Something of the best about it what I've found in a book written by Diethard Stelzl:
God (the Source) was just 'Being' in the beginning and then wanted to experience 'himself'. And 'He' created a being called Luzifer (IMO = Obama, I've got good reasons for believing this) taking over the anti-position to 'himself': the positions of destruction and other evils - anti-creation.
By the way: I had become an atheist for many years, because I couldn't understand why there is so much evil in this world, even with my own severe illness - thinking that I wouldn't deserve this. And I couldn't see any real hint to an existence of the Devil or Satan. And churches tell something about 'You are secure if you believe in God, pray and go to church.' This never convinced me, regarding what happened to others (see Jews under Hitler).

But now: IMO most of the reptilians are what's called the Devil/Satan (etc.), and their minions (plus sheeple with their closed eyes just dismissing truth & denying the existence of extreme evil) are grouped around them.
There is good too, but it isn't very obvious and strong yet.

You can't open the eyes of the masses yet because the contradiction of reality to their coddled consciousness is too extreme. They are lulled to sleep by conformism and consumerism, and they dance on the volcano.
I think masses won't wake up till some obvious gigantic desaster(s) will be revealed. I know which desaster(s) I speak of (of course many 'smaller' ones are already happening, people can research it but they are too lazy).
Another point is the stupidity of many people, sorry.

By the way if I were you then I wouldn't go into the topic with god and Jesus, particularly not with people strictly bound to Church and other firm belief systems. You can't discuss or argue with dogmatic people who are not on the path of truth (searching for truth and justice).

I myself am ready to change my opinion/conviction if I'm being given new good reasons for this, but most people are just stubborn. And I can see this in my own family.

Yea, you are completely right about dogmatic people and we do have brains that we need in this realm. Many people unfortunately were not blessed with a well functioning brain.

Stupidity is a very big problem that is also enforced by teaching kids to repeat, repeat, repeat.. instead of think, think, think!

At least in my school I was never thought to think for myself, no, I was supposed to just believe the crap in the books.

Sometimes, even as a kid, I managed to confront a teacher (always when it was about religion) to a point, they would change the subjects, because they ran out of arguments.

And where I grew up, kids actually had to take "Religion" as a class where you learned lots of bullshit about Christianty. I liked them though, because I always had something to argue about :D


I also like the excerpt you have written, it's simple and yet powerfull.

[h2pogo]

Actually my plan was never to convince people, all along I tried to help them open their eyes.

These are two completely different things.

I just want them to start questioning the very reality itself. So to say, I want the "stone to get rolling". My idea is to just switch on one little button in their brains, that will make them more critical and they start looking for the truth for themselves.

But i find people with faith in a "God" just as aware if not more aware of the workings of the world than most atheists i know.

Egypt for example has an extremely high percent of population that beleive 911 was an inside job..But there are very few atheists there.

I think it best to get people to question their faith in governments , Banks ,media and similar institutions rather some thing that can not be proven.

[apostata]

But i find people with faith in a "God" just as aware if not more aware of the workings of the world than most atheists i know.

Egypt for example has an extremely high percent of population that beleive 911 was an inside job..But there are very few atheists there.

I think it best to get people to question their faith in governments , Banks ,media and similar institutions rather some thing that can not be proven.

Aware... can't be... if they truely believe in what they believe, they are at least helpfull and empathic, like my highly religious aunt (which I respect very much).

But the problem is that they will still not find salvation, because for slavation to happen. You have to be truely aware and by believing in a dogma, you will not be able to find the path to the source. This is my personal opinion of course.

[oiram]

Hello everybody,
when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very careful about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real Jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.

Where any of you successful? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?
Why is it so hard to open people's eyes?


Well for starters its not the eyes you have to target ..... because they can only see the physical world of things!

The eye which is truly blinded is the third spiritual eye within.


Remember the symbolic spiritual story about the thing to make blind people see again & the once which lost there legs walk the right path again >> >>
well this is it the story of the true miracle once you managed to open the third eye of anyone or guide someone back onto its own feet & on the true path.


The only way is to touch the spirit of the individual & this requires a bit of skill & life experience .... talking only & pointing to the obvious will in most cases not do the trick in this brainwashed crazy World any-more.

People have been trained from early age to ignore all external warning signs & they overplay them by blindness, arrogance & ignorance.

There is no easy way to get into there minds to open there third eye & its an individual inner process.

You could try to guide them to there inner light switch by talking not about the general problems but the inner problems; but its not an easy thing to do.


People have to first understand that they can become Human by the activation of there spirit minds within.

Yes there are two types
People
and
Humans


Without it they will & can not see the problems externally of themselves.

Don't forget after 11 years after the wake up call from 9/11 you are only confronted with the hard core cases if they did not wake up by themselves by now.

So as more time goes by the leftovers which did not wake up are truly lost & most of them will not make it to the top of the mountain by normal natural means.

More time goes by harder it will get ...... sad but its reality!

There is not one single formula to get peoples attention because we are all individuals that's why its hard to give advice in this matter.


Each person needs a individual different approach which you have to sense & needs some personal life skills especially close to the end game time.

The fact is not all will make it out of this hell on earth being most-likely a active part of it all there lifetime.... this could include your own family members.

You can not do more then try ...... & don't waist your time on the hard core cases look after those which are willing to at least listen.

The fact is that its a individual decision & self choice issue not something anyone can force towards anyone. This is the uniqueness of the spirit & truth you can not buy a spirit or truth for any amount of money or gold; either you got it or you don't.


Evil can be forced onto people but goodness & love cant and needs no force ever otherwise it would defeat its origin & uniqueness.

Natural Evil beings can never grasp this reality & logic ..... this could actually be there origin of there evil ignorant blind like being.



Here is only one of my base user guides to test the waters to see if I'm confronted with a basic spiritual mindset:
If you try to talk to anyone about the reality of things ask these questions first over time!

1) Do you think we truly need Government?

2) Do you think we need Police to police the Government?

3) Do you have to vote Government idols into power?

Now if you end-up with three clear (yes we do) to your questions ...... stop right there & go no further; because these three things are like glued to each other in a confused blinded brainwashed mindset >>> trust me!

Those which do not understand that Governments & Police are the number one anti Human, anti Christ Evil Mafia organisation on earth will not listen to anything else you trying to say to them! .... Trust Me!

I'm telling you don't even try; because whatever you would try to explain to this person would only attack there first love & idols.
Trust me you would only end-up with attacks toward yourself no matter what you would tell them & no matter how right you are & how much proof you would present to the person.

If you like you could add; if you need money-changer fiat-Jew banker usury taxes?
Also if we need Army's to fight wars for revenge issues, bankers & business issues & to kill uninvolved people which have no involvement with anything of the originating reasoning?

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Ask any of your highly educated university trained Government Monkey brains
what they don't understand from this Image??
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/thou-shalt-not-kill11.gif

Should you get a positive reaction (you know what I mean) to some of these questions then & only then you can slowly, slowly continue into the real issue over time.

If not just move on & don't waist your pressures time on the already dead once!!!!

[butters]

No. I understand about "opposite sides"... And I'm not "fighting". I've just written my impressions from one level of consciousness. Look at David Icke, he can talking from different levels. It's expression of "all possibilities".

I think we can choose what level might be relevant in this particular case.

Hey, if you know about human sacrifices, manipulated wars, false flags and who is the "god" in religion, can you not to be passionate and angry? Not for "fighting", but for changing something.

I see some "new-age" people and they simply don't want to talk about these things, because they would be forced to move from one level to another. Where there is not only an understanding that is all an illusion... And I think it's not real awakening. Because they are only on one level. Again.

I agree that we can express emotion about human sacrifices, manipulation of wars via false truths and the control of religious zeal, but when we understand why its happening it gives us an appreciation.

I know the new age movement profusely avoid this, but they in turn are trapped, but they too are no different from the uninformed.

There are many levels that are not even known, it would require an examplary mind to fathom such magnitudes of truth. I too feel immense frustration of the the points you speak of.

But know i've adjusted the leverage in some ways so i can see it from a new perspective. Maybe more will one day open to a new leverage of their own.

:)

[jane_d]

I agree that we can express emotion about human sacrifices, manipulation of wars via false truths and the control of religious zeal, but when we understand why its happening it gives us an appreciation.

I know the new age movement profusely avoid this, but they in turn are trapped, but they too are no different from the uninformed.

There are many levels that are not even known, it would require an examplary mind to fathom such magnitudes of truth. I too feel immense frustration of the the points you speak of.

But know i've adjusted the leverage in some ways so i can see it from a new perspective. Maybe more will one day open to a new leverage of their own.

:)

Maybe I don't mean emotions but empathy...

But I understand... :) And agree with you.

All the rest is just my personal choice. I'm a secret rebel :D ;)

[apostata]

Here is only one of my base user guides to test the waters to see if I'm confronted with a basic spiritual mindset:




Thank you for this post, this seems very logic and could save me lost energy and entusiasm.

I will try that very soon. :)

[maxine]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

There is no, "God" - well certainly not the way humans perceive God to be, anyway! There are entities, (infinite consciousness) who needed a way of controlling humans, as well as giving them something to look up to! So they came up with the idea, "God!" That way - they avoided blowing their cover, and could keep the human race, in a lower state of conscious awareness!! :eek:

[oiram]

Regarding the God & Jesus issue things are getting a bit more involved & complex! >>> much harder then to wake up others; because it requires your waking up first.

I do not blame anyone for thinking like you do in the moment; because they never teach us the reality & truth of things.

For starters the word God is not a name relating to one thing only.... the true God/image can not be named in reality; because it has to stay unnameable for logical spiritual understanding reasons.

If you say there is no God/image ..... I answer this with yes & no!

For those without a spiritual mind there is no god .... very true!

And for those which just say & just believe there is a God without the ability to explain there believes are full of it & proven liars!

For those with a spiritual mind ability the God/image becomes reality because the spirit is part of the God/image concept!

With the Jesus story its the same issue the way I understand this now after a lot of reading & evaluating.

When you say there is no real Jesus its interesting that you are wording it this way!

What is real & what is unreal ..... to you??

Is or was the Jesus real or not real? ...... I have to say real as in person yes & no.

Once you worked out what the Jesus name stands for in reality things are getting more clear & understandable.

My logical evaluation tells me there was never a physical Jesus nail to any Cross because its impossible to do so (its a great big lie from your masters) .... also the Jesus/image was around already in (Adam & Eve = Seth) time line!!

They all have lied to us regarding the Jesus story by distorting & manipulating the reality & the original words written down to serve there dirty historical agenda!!!

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."

If the Jesus is implemented by a spirit mind Jesus becomes reality in person.
I give this hint ....... Wherever you find a logical spiritual mind you have Jesus right in-front of you!

77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

But without the spirit the Jesus is not real ...... correct to my understanding.


Let me put it like this:
God is nothing without you & you are nothing without the God/image .......

I know its all a bit confusing & it needs a lot of research & reading to come to a final conclusion on the issue.
Don't forget Jesus was not born a virgin at his physical birth but much later in life for a good logical reason. Once you understand what the virgin birth really is things become much clearer. But only a Spiritual minds set will be able to find the truth of things.


My recommendation is to not just dump the God & Jesus issue on a personal level ..... but keep away from organised Religious organisations; because they truly have nothing to do with God or any Jesus ...... quite to opposite.

I'm myself not part of any religion & you will never find me in a organised Religious place; but I will not any-more condem the God & Jesus image; because I say I understand the reality of it now by self teaching & research on my own without external manipulations.

I leave you with my collection of these written words below & some images I created for myself which helped me & for you to evaluate if they speak of some truth or may make some logical sense to you or others.....


I will leave you with some very special written words below & some links; its very revealing in many ways (it was for me & opened my third eye to reality) if you give it the time to evaluate.
Its not what you believe its what you understand which creates you & your inner spirit.

The Secret Revelation of John - The Secret Book of John
[It was not the way Moses said: “they hid in an ark.”
Rather, they hid in a special place,
Not just Noah
but also many other people from the immovable race.
They went into hiding within a cloud of light.]
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html)

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, "Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky," then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, "It is in the sea," then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html)

Matthew said to him: "Lord, no one can find the truth except through you. Therefore teach us the truth."
The Savior said: "He Who Is is ineffable. No principle knew him, no authority, no subjection, nor any creature from the foundation of the world until now, except he alone, and anyone to whom he wants to make revelation through him who is from First Light. From now on, I am the Great Savior. For he is immortal and eternal. Now he is eternal, having no birth; for everyone who has birth will perish. He is unbegotten, having no beginning; for everyone who has a beginning has an end. Since no one rules over him, he has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another."

(BG 84, 13-17 adds: He is unnameable. He has no human form; for whoever has human form is the creation of another).

"And he has a semblance of his own - not like what you have seen and received, but a strange semblance that surpasses all things and is better than the universe. It looks to every side and sees itself from itself. Since it is infinite, he is ever incomprehensible. He is imperishable and has no likeness (to anything). He is unchanging good. He is faultless. He is eternal. He is blessed. While he is not known, he ever knows himself. He is immeasurable. He is untraceable. He is perfect, having no defect. He is imperishability blessed. He is called "Father of the Universe"".
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html)

Then Bartholomew said to him: "How (is it that) <he> was designated in the Gospel "Man" and "Son of Man"? To which of them, then, is this Son related?"
The Holy One said to him: "I want you to know that First Man is called "Begetter, Self-perfected Mind" . He reflected with Great Sophia , his consort, and revealed his first-begotten, androgynous son. His male name is designated "First Begetter, Son of God" , his female name, "First Begettress Sophia, Mother of the Universe" . Some call her "Love" . Now First-begotten is called "Christ" . Since he has authority from his father, he created a multitude of angels without number for retinue from Spirit and Light."

His disciples said to him: "Lord, reveal to us about the one called "Man", that we also may know his glory exactly."
The perfect Savior said: "Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. First Begetter Father is called "Adam, Eye of Light," because he came from shining Light, and his holy angels, who are ineffable (and) shadowless, ever rejoice with joy in their reflecting, which they received from their Father. The whole Kingdom of Son of Man, who is called "Son of God," is full of ineffable and shadowless joy, and unchanging jubilation, (they) rejoicing over his imperishable glory, which has never been heard until now, nor has it been revealed in the aeons that came afterward, and their worlds. I came from Self-begotten and First Infinite Light, that I might reveal everything to you."
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html)

Thereafter he (Sabaoth) created a congregation of angels, thousands and myriads, numberless, which resembled the congregation in the eighth heaven; and a firstborn called

Israel - which is, "the man that sees God"; and another being, called Jesus Christ, who resembles the savior above in the eighth heaven, and who sits at his right upon a revered throne. (the right hand way judge) And at his left, there sits the virgin of the holy spirit, upon a throne and glorifying him. And the seven virgins stand before her, [...] possessing thirty harps, and psalteries and trumpets, glorifying him. And all the armies of the angels glorify him, and they bless him. Now where he sits is upon a throne of light [within a] great cloud that covers him. And there was no one with him in the cloud except Sophia [the daughter of] Pistis, instructing him about all the things that exist in the eighth heaven, so that the likenesses of those things might be created, in order that his reign might endure until the consummation of the heavens of chaos and their forces.


Tertiary Structures of the Divine Mind

The Holy Spirit
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html)

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Now these things I have presented to you - I am Jesus Christ, the Son of Man, who is exalted above the heavens - O perfect and incorruptible ones, because of the incorruptible and perfect mystery and the ineffable one. But they think that we decreed them before the foundation of the world, in order that, when we emerge from the places of the world, we may present there the symbols of incorruption from the spiritual union unto knowledge. You do not know it, because the fleshly cloud overshadows you. But I alone am the friend of Sophia. I have been in the bosom of the father from the beginning, in the place of the sons of the truth, and the Greatness. Rest then with me, my fellow spirits and my brothers, forever.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/2seth.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/2seth.html)


The Gospel of Philip
"Jesus" is a hidden name, "Christ" is a revealed name. For this reason "Jesus" is not particular to any language; rather he is always called by the name "Jesus". While as for "Christ", in Syriac it is "Messiah", in Greek it is "Christ". Certainly all the others have it according to their own language. "The Nazarene" is he who reveals what is hidden. Christ has everything in himself, whether man, or angel, or mystery, and the Father.

The apostles who were before us had these names for him: "Jesus, the Nazorean, Messiah", that is, "Jesus, the Nazorean, the Christ". The last name is "Christ", the first is "Jesus", that in the middle is "the Nazarene". "Messiah" has two meanings, both "the Christ" and "the measured". "Jesus" in Hebrew is "the redemption". "Nazara" is "the Truth". "The Nazarene" then, is "the Truth". "Christ" [...] has been measured. "The Nazarene" and "Jesus" are they who have been measured.

Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word "God" does not perceive what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with "the Father" and "the Son" and "the Holy Spirit" and "life" and "light" and "resurrection" and "the Church (Ekklesia)" and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, unless they have come to know what is correct. The names which are heard are in the world [...] deceive. If they were in the Aeon (eternal realm), they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the Aeon.

Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image. The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name ("Christian") will also be taken from him. But one receives the unction of the [...] of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called "the right and the left." For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html)


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/body_soul_mind_spirit.gif
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/TheTrueWorld.png

[apostata]

Thank you very much oiram, for this detailed post.

I have to admit, that is still confusing to me. Right now i am trying to make sanese of the archons and the demiurge, so i will definately follow up your links and try to understand.

When I mentioned there is no jesus (as in son of god) I ment that jesus did not exist as a real person as he is described by the church.
For me it was always a story, but I never quite understood it.


I have also always intuitively known, that godlyness is everywhere.

When people asked me what I think god is, I just pointed towards a plant, a chair, me, a person and said that is god.
No one ever understood what I ment.

Even when I was a small child I did not understand why people would go to a church to pray to god, when they have nature all around, being so much closer to god.


What were always random thoughts, finally made sense. I don't know why, but a couple of weeks ago all these phylosophical thoughts that I have accumulated over the years, just suddenly connected and made sense.

My picture is much clearer, but how thing came into existence, that's what I am trying to figure out right now.

And how did we take the form of human beings in a 3 dimensional world?

I guess I will just persue the truth for the rest of my earthly life.

[oiram]

I guess I will just peruse the truth for the rest of my earthly life.
Nice positive reply!

Now I can say with confidence that your last comment on your post truly is part of the resembling of the God/image.

The will to search for truth is half the way up the hill.......


Taken me a long time to work it all out ..... but once you do you will feel like on top of the world because the truth was hidden 2000 years. But its all in the open now if you have the ability of just logical spiritual thinking.

In relation of the demiurge & original Satan/Lucifer image these two links explained it to me in detail & I can finally make sense of it all in a logical thinking way where all the dots connect to a chain of events.

You have to take a bit of time because the symbolism is the key to understand the true story.

If you are able to handle the symbolism decrypting with a logical mind you will find all your answers you ever had its all in here. I had to read it many times over & made many personal notes over time to truly understand it. Every one with the will to learn will be able to understand it. Once the penny drops & you manage to connect all the missing dots you will be so happy for yourself .... trust me been there done it!!!

You know what the true love is ..... the love to help others unconditionally.

On the Origin of the World
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html)

The Secret Book of John
(The Apocryphon of John)
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html)

Keep in mind when you read any scripture its written 90% in a spiritual way so words do not resemble the physical items in most cases.

I will give you my researched decoding words & there true meaning ...... I'm not saying I'm 100% correct but 80% is good enough for me.

This word decrypting works for the entire bible writing..... Try it & you will see.


As long we have only mystery's to solve we in save territory ....

What no one of us needs is secrets; because secrets are lies in reality.

Secretes evil people keep to hide in darkness.

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/SeekLuke-11-9.jpg http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/RealWealth.jpg

Here you go because this is half the battle to get to the real truth of things.
Taken me nearly 2 years to create this collection of words & logic in the images.
Once you replace the words with the true physical meaning all will make sense...
My personal Conclusion:

Aba = Father
Abba = Father
Ababa = Father Father http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/melchiz.html
Able = animate (psychic)
Adam = men
Adamas = the evil men which may repented but can not be trusted fully
Aeon First = The first aeon is that of Son of Man, who is called "First Begetter", who is called "Savior" = First created knowledge, wisdom & logical mind.
Aeons = Both the spirits and their habitations are frequently called Aeons. (In a derivative sense, an age is sometimes also called an Aeon.)
Aeons = Spirits
Aeons = the past = the knowledge of the forefathers
Become the Race of the Mind = is the unmovable race
Blood = Spirit = invisible, internal & hidden
Body Soul Mind Spirit = Christ
Body, Soul, Mind, Spirit knowledge & Wisdom teaching of true words = Christ
Bread = living Word = internal Word = Truth(faith) = Arc-angels = seven Angels = Arch?angels = Wisdom = knowledge = food for Life = invisible, internal, the hidden & the all external.
Cain = carnal (choic)
Christ = Chrism = Eucharist = invisible & visible = the inner, the outer, the below, the above, Wisdom & knowledge = the virgin pure life = all made into (ONE I AM) = the father the Son the Holy Spirit = [the Kingdom].
Christ = Chrism = Eucharist = invisible & visible = the inner, the outer, the left hand path, the right hand path, the below, the above, Wisdom & knowledge = the virgin pure life = the teacher of true word & truth = all made into (ONE I AM) = the father the Son the Holy Spirit = [the Kingdom].
Christ = Holy Spirit = (Body + Soul + Mind + Spirit)
Christ = Holy Spirit = cross = the crossing off, of all things the left, the right, the above the below. = also the teaching of your knowledge & Widsom to others
Christ = The perfect Man with the Words of Wisdom & knowledge life giving which results in the kingdom of God = Paradise
Christ = creative word which became Christ ... sending forth by Setheus.
Demon,= from Latin "daemon" also means "Spirit", from Greek "daimon" meaning Lesser Gods, thus something related to speech.
Demons are people who worship Lesser Gods/Inferior/Full of Bad Words
Earth = the body; the container! = the container of the words of wisdom.
Emanations = 24 emanations of the invisible God
Emanations = The Heptad are seven emanations from Ahura Mazda and embody such principles as "Good Mind," "Good Purpose," "Right-mindedness" or "Holy Devotion," "Wholeness" or "Health," and "Long Life" or "Immortality."
Eve = The daughter of Sophia = Life giver = Zeo
Eve = the tree of life = Life
Face = the Words of truth about the true God & its meaning! = Holy Spirit presented in Word form.
Fire = Sacred Fire = true Words spoken = Words of true knowledge & true wisdom = The Sword of The Spirit - The Word of God expressed by the true Words spoken!
Fire of Evil & Abyss = Word twisting = words of Evil = rhetoric = Political bullshit talked words = untruthfulness = Words of lies = the sword of Fire opposing all truth.
Fire and Brimstone = (The Words of God (in truth))
Fire = Sacred Fire = true Words spoken = Words of true knowledge & true wisdom = The Sword of The Spirit - The Word of God expressed by the true Words spoken!
Firmaments = foundation = Jesus = the words = the teaching = the church base.
Flesh = Word = breath = visible & external
Flesh = Word = the Church assembly teaching there wisdom & knowledge to others breath = visible & external
Flood = Spiritual Flood of truth & lies (physical fighting from the Evil side) depending in which camp you are!
Fruits = the resulting Spiritual minded Human being; resulting out of the teachings from the tree of knowledge & wisdom. God = is the beginning of the first word talking about God; the beginning of the Spirit understanding = "Only Begotten" he is also called God!
Heaven = all the Spirit bases & its components
Heaven = is the invisible Word of the Father = Word of the living Father = the thinking logical mind & words within = Heaven the words of Wisdom within & externally!
The gift of gold symbolizes the kingship of Christ
Holy Spirit = Christ
Holy Spirit = Father, Word Spirit, Bread, Body, Life, living Word = the living God = Son of the living God.
Holy Spirit = Father, Words, Spirit, Mind, Logic, Bread, Body, Life, Love, living Word = the living God = Son of the living God.
Kingdom = Christ = Human Paradise
Kingdom = of Christ like being
Life = Lord
Life = daughter of wisdom
Life = is the daughter of (Pistis Sophia)
Light = Knowledge & Wisdom = Creation = Creativity = Visions = Imaginations = positive Intelligence = Love to share & past on to others
Light = Treasury of the Light
Light is the distribution of all true knowledge & wisdom in action! http://www.gnosis.org/library/excr.htm
Lilith = God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust.
Lord = Life
MELCHIZEDEK = O Melchizedek, Holy One, High-Priest, the perfect hope and the gifts of life. I am Gamaliel, who was sent to <...> the congregation of the children of Seth, who are above thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, of the aeons <...> essence of the aeons, aba<...> aiai ababa.
Mary Magdalene = Wisdom
Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ which makes her a granddaughter of the Goddess.
Mountain = The mountain called "Divination and Joy" = mountain "Of the Olives"
Pistis = Faith = confidence or trust in a person or thing
Pistis Sophia = The mother of the Universe
Praying really means = its distributing your own knowledge & wisdom = giving your own light to others = its talking & teaching those which seek it which are sick of the material world all around them.
Rest = rest from the World & inner Spiritual wisdom & knowledge reflection.
Rising from the dead is the baptisms. The dead rising into the Spirit mind & wisdom.
Sabaoth = the Good = the repentance = the action
Seed = (Fathers Word) = breath = visible & external but the source came from internal (Pistis Wisdom)of the father.
Seth = Spiritual being = spiritual (pneumatic) human beings respectively.
So the first Commandment is? = the Revealer = the one which reveals the truth = the one which reveals all lies!
Sophia = Wisdom
Stone + Prophecy + Message + Says + Garden + Jewel + TORAH (Ord) + The Jubile + Sun, Heat
The face of God "Face of the father is the Son which reveals the God/image" is the active implementation & distribution of knowledge & wisdom by the individual.
The face of God = "Face of the father is the Sons which revealing the true God/image" = is the active implementation & distribution of true knowledge & wisdom by the individual = the Holy Spirit in action.
The invisible part of Jesus is the first begotten!
The visible part of Jesus is wisdom!
Trinity = Triple-powered
Triple-powered = trinity
Twin-saviour, that is the Child of the Child,
Vine = Spirit = invisible, internal & hidden
Virgin Mary = Sophia = Wisdom
Virgin Spirits = the ineffable and unchangeable lights. For they have no sickness nor weakness, but it is will.
Watchers = Instructions to the disciples on the coming forth of their souls; promise of entry into the Treasury of the Light. and withdrawal of all the aeons and of the watchers if the disciples have received the mystery of the forgiveness of sins.
Water/Waters - Sea Rivers = People Population = are the Children of the unmoveable race which practice the Spirit in there being.
Wine = Spirit = invisible, internal & hidden
Wisdom & knowledge is the life giver!
Wisdom = daughter of God = Goddess
Zoe = Life
Zoe is the daughter of Sophia = virgin Spirit = invisible non physical
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/EL_EVE_LE.gif


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/Jesus_True_Face.gif


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/Family_body_soul_mind_spirit.gif

[apostata]

I thank you once again oiram.

I apprechiate very much that you share your conclusions and your wisdom.
Just as you say, secrets are not the way to go.


I also understand quite well now, why the Internet is our last front and why we have to protect it, no matter what.

They are trying to enforce censorship on it, so that we may not seek fot the truth.

[h2pogo]

Thank you very much oiram, for this detailed post.

I have to admit, that is still confusing to me. Right now i am trying to make sanese of the archons and the demiurge, so i will definately follow up your links and try to understand.

When I mentioned there is no jesus (as in son of god) I ment that jesus did not exist as a real person as he is described by the church.
For me it was always a story, but I never quite understood it.


I have also always intuitively known, that godlyness is everywhere.

When people asked me what I think god is, I just pointed towards a plant, a chair, me, a person and said that is god.
No one ever understood what I ment.

Even when I was a small child I did not understand why people would go to a church to pray to god, when they have nature all around, being so much closer to god.


What were always random thoughts, finally made sense. I don't know why, but a couple of weeks ago all these phylosophical thoughts that I have accumulated over the years, just suddenly connected and made sense.

My picture is much clearer, but how thing came into existence, that's what I am trying to figure out right now.

And how did we take the form of human beings in a 3 dimensional world?

I guess I will just persue the truth for the rest of my earthly life.

Your definition of godliness does fit in with the majority of relegions..its all that exists..I think science has proven that life can not happen by chance..The pursuit of truth and knowlage is also typical of many religions.

This film demonstrates how life must of been created by an ineligence we are yet to fully comprehend.

http://krishnatube.com/video/858/The-Collapse-of-Evolution--The-Fact-of-Creation

[butters]

Maybe I don't mean emotions but empathy...

But I understand... :) And agree with you.

All the rest is just my personal choice. I'm a secret rebel :D ;)

your so rebelious

;)

[signalnorth]

Exactly... I did the same and faced the same. I think, it's a fear. They are intimidated by their damn god and they are in the mental prison. And David Icke wrote recently about possession... Some of religious people (not all) who are deeply immersed in what is written in the Bible, made impression for me that they are some kind of possessed. I look at them, but not at them. It is not their personal reactions and feelings. If you look closely, you can see that they react on certain things identically, and it's not their true nature. This is completely manipulated nature. Sometimes I see the true nature (love and kind) of them and it's like a breath of fresh air for me. But often I just see what I'm talking with someone, but I'm not with him, I'm talking with a puppet with a certain logic. After a while you start to see this logic and how it manifests itself in many aspects of life. It is completely inverted. Black is white and white is black. (if we think in these terms). What they call love and freedom - is tyranny and slavery. And you can notice that their logic often argue that the shape is more important than content. Wherever the name of Jesus is written - it's good! Everything else is bad and "from the devil". End of story. Damn!

Fortunately, their natural empathy is keeping these people from the very insane acts.

I don't know ... I'm just saying from time to time in hope that one day he / she will get it ... But for now, after talks on these topics I want to bang my head against the wall. I just hear in my address that I'm stupid and I understand nothing. Yeah..

They are not bad and they can be very good in their actions sometimes, but they have an element of aggression and I don't like this. I'm just sorry for them. They are in a terrible prison.


It is the thoughtful and considered nature of posts like this that restore my faith in this site (and the human race!)

[night_gaunt]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

The fact is that you are threatening their beliefs. Interestingly, you feel the need to share your belief with others...but (I'm assuming you're atheist, correct me if I'm wrong) you have no call from a religion to do so. In fact, several people have solid reasons to believe there is a god, including myself, and usually others' attempts to dismay that belief are futile.

[apostata]

The fact is that you are threatening their beliefs. Interestingly, you feel the need to share your belief with others...but (I'm assuming you're atheist, correct me if I'm wrong) you have no call from a religion to do so. In fact, several people have solid reasons to believe there is a god, including myself, and usually others' attempts to dismay that belief are futile.

I am not atheist at all, the god christians believe in is not a real god, it's the architect, not to be confused with godlyness.

Because the real god is everywhere you look, he is everything, and what people have to realise is that god is not something above them but something inside of them. By meditation they can get in touch with the cosmic consciousness that all of us are made out of.

As long as people think god is something separete, something external from us, they will never be able to be free!

[inlikeflint]

Maybe it isn't your job to make people see.

Maybe it is their job to come to the realization that you have reached on their own of their own free will.

There are those who evolve and move forward, and there are those who are obsolete. Those who cannot move forward are doomed to repeat the 2nd grade until they get it right.

[lotusrose]

I think the new age is pretending to wake ppl up and send them of to this dble life. To be awake In my eyes is to see what is going on and where its came from. I dont belive in using other beings as an excuse for their wrong doing over time. I think this new age is making excuses for the rich and they are the ones who started this new AGE. Why does no one use comman sense these days cos you should. New age is what fortune tellers. At one time in our life we have all looked at our palm and our life line if not do it now.. the times are changing .. My life line used to be long now it is now there is no history or living by the laws of the dead ruling.. I looked at my sons palm a few weeks ago no lines what so ever..I did get a bit worry, but now my palmthe lines are going also as my hands are smooth and looking young I used to have this big faith line a wishfull thinking line that went all the way up....I thought my sons life was disapearing seems my good old wrinkle hand is getting younger by the day also ...my thoughts.

[apostata]

Maybe it isn't your job to make people see.

Maybe it is their job to come to the realization that you have reached on their own of their own free will.

There are those who evolve and move forward, and there are those who are obsolete. Those who cannot move forward are doomed to repeat the 2nd grade until they get it right.

I have come to believe the very same thing. I guess what I should do is to figure out the reason for my life on this earth, and make sure I flow with the cosmic energy.

I will still try to find like minded people, but I guess there is no sense in helping people that don't want my help.

It is a waste of time and energy to try to help them, when they are not ready to let go of the materialistic world.

I know for myself, that the material world is nothing to hold on to. I do not care about the material world anymore. The only problem I have is to figure out how I can still survive in this world (concerning money and paying bills), but still find enough time to peruit my spirituality.

[apostata]

I think the new age is pretending to wake ppl up and send them of to this dble life. To be awake In my eyes is to see what is going on and where its came from. I dont belive in using other beings as an excuse for their wrong doing over time. I think this new age is making excuses for the rich and they are the ones who started this new AGE. Why does no one use comman sense these days cos you should. New age is what fortune tellers. At one time in our life we have all looked at our palm and our life line if not do it now.. the times are changing .. My life line used to be long now it is now there is no history or living by the laws of the dead ruling.. I looked at my sons palm a few weeks ago no lines what so ever..I did get a bit worry, but now my palmthe lines are going also as my hands are smooth and looking young I used to have this big faith line a wishfull thinking line that went all the way up....I thought my sons life was disapearing seems my good old wrinkle hand is getting younger by the day also ...my thoughts.

I am not quite sure what you mean by this (your sentenses just break up in the middle), but my life line has not changed very much, besides that it splits at the end (which actually is new).

I guess this means there are two outcomes for me and at a certain point I will have to make a big desicion.

This is actually quite interesting.

[thushara_alwis]

People who have lived by a certain way of doing things for a while will not wake up. It requires a drastic situation to jolt people out of a certain way of looking things and realize what they subconsciously believed was true is no longer the case. It will involve a lot of emotional and mental challenges. The person may experience feelings of depression, thoughts of suicide, etc.

If the person goes through some revelation and 'awakens', he or she will follow a different train of logic/logic pathways that enables him/her to see things differently. Then this person will at the least view alternative views with a much more open mind and rather than automatically dismissing it just because the mainstream influences says so.

[apostata]

People who have lived by a certain way of doing things for a while will not wake up. It requires a drastic situation to jolt people out of a certain way of looking things and realize what they subconsciously believed was true is no longer the case. It will involve a lot of emotional and mental challenges. The person may experience feelings of depression, thoughts of suicide, etc.

If the person goes through some revelation and 'awakens', he or she will follow a different train of logic/logic pathways that enables him/her to see things differently. Then this person will at the least view alternative views with a much more open mind and rather than automatically dismissing it just because the mainstream influences says so.


Guess you are right, it just has to "happen" to them.

[night_gaunt]

I am not atheist at all, the god christians believe in is not a real god, it's the architect, not to be confused with godlyness.

Because the real god is everywhere you look, he is everything, and what people have to realise is that god is not something above them but something inside of them. By meditation they can get in touch with the cosmic consciousness that all of us are made out of.

As long as people think god is something separete, something external from us, they will never be able to be free!

I believe those are the Eastern views. There is nothing wrong with that reasoning, just that some people believe God dwells within them anyway yet they prefer to see him as a Being.

[night_gaunt]

I think the new age is pretending to wake ppl up and send them of to this dble life. To be awake In my eyes is to see what is going on and where its came from. I dont belive in using other beings as an excuse for their wrong doing over time. I think this new age is making excuses for the rich and they are the ones who started this new AGE. Why does no one use comman sense these days cos you should. New age is what fortune tellers. At one time in our life we have all looked at our palm and our life line if not do it now.. the times are changing .. My life line used to be long now it is now there is no history or living by the laws of the dead ruling.. I looked at my sons palm a few weeks ago no lines what so ever..I did get a bit worry, but now my palmthe lines are going also as my hands are smooth and looking young I used to have this big faith line a wishfull thinking line that went all the way up....I thought my sons life was disapearing seems my good old wrinkle hand is getting younger by the day also ...my thoughts.

Don't fall for the New Age stuff, that's the deception :cool:

[inlikeflint]

I have come to believe the very same thing. I guess what I should do is to figure out the reason for my life on this earth, and make sure I flow with the cosmic energy.

I will still try to find like minded people, but I guess there is no sense in helping people that don't want my help.

It is a waste of time and energy to try to help them, when they are not ready to let go of the materialistic world.

I know for myself, that the material world is nothing to hold on to. I do not care about the material world anymore. The only problem I have is to figure out how I can still survive in this world (concerning money and paying bills), but still find enough time to peruit my spirituality.

Maybe, this is your life lesson.
You can only come to know what you know though your own experience. Looking for other people to tell you the answer is like the blind leading the blind.
Ask the universe for the answer to your question and you will receive it. Pray for it, meditate on it. think about it while you are dreaming.
At this point if other people were supposed to know, their alarm clocks would have woke them up already.

Namaste.

[apostata]

I believe those are the Eastern views. There is nothing wrong with that reasoning, just that some people believe God dwells within them anyway yet they prefer to see him as a Being.

This is my opinion... but I think that's where you are absolutely wrong, because at the end there is only one truth. And it is evan written in the bible ( I do not recall which psalm though). If you have read it carefull enough it will tell you not to hold on to the stones that churches are made from.

We are all gods, because everything is made of god, as long as you deny this you will be trapped in a vicious circle.

When do christian priests ever tell the people to look for god in you heart, in yourself? NEVER, you shall pray and live in fear of a god that is willing to kill his creation with plagues and floods.... yea fuck a god like that!

[night_gaunt]

This is my opinion... but I think that's where you are absolutely wrong, because at the end there is only one truth. And it is evan written in the bible ( I do not recall which psalm though). If you have read it carefull enough it will tell you not to hold on to the stones that churches are made from.

We are all gods, because everything is made of god, as long as you deny this you will be trapped in a vicious circle.

When do christian priests ever tell the people to look for god in you heart, in yourself? NEVER, you shall pray and live in fear of a god that is willing to kill his creation with plagues and floods.... yea fuck a god like that!

You have a right to your opinion. Most of the Bible is symbolic and never truly states the true nature of God, as those who see His face are not alive. Personally I view God as a being because that is how His presence feels to me though its beyond that. The safest belief is always to be agnostic, because we dont know for sure right? I was at church only two days ago and coincidentally the priest said 'seek God with your heart'. We are told constantly to search for Him within ourselves.

[apostata]

You have a right to your opinion. Most of the Bible is symbolic and never truly states the true nature of God, as those who see His face are not alive. Personally I view God as a being because that is how His presence feels to me though its beyond that. The safest belief is always to be agnostic, because we dont know for sure right? I was at church only two days ago and coincidentally the priest said 'seek God with your heart'. We are told constantly to search for Him within ourselves.

Well yes, it is my opinion and I have learned to not engage in these kind of subjects with people that do not share my believes.

So here's the end, I am not going to argue with you because it is a loss of energy for me if I do.

I do respect your opinion and as long as you treat your fellow men with tolerance and respect, I have no problems with your believes.

I would still suggest that you go out in nature if you want to be close to god, not into church. Even if some priests are truthfull and good, the christian church as an institution is pure evil!

[night_gaunt]

Well yes, it is my opinion and I have learned to not engage in these kind of subjects with people that do not share my believes.

So here's the end, I am not going to argue with you because it is a loss of energy for me if I do.

I do respect your opinion and as long as you treat your fellow men with tolerance and respect, I have no problems with your believes.

I would still suggest that you go out in nature if you want to be close to god, not into church. Even if some priests are truthfull and good, the christian church as an institution is pure evil!

I wasn't viewing it much as a debate, just answering the post so you would understand. I spend more time in meditation than in a church.

[apostata]

I wasn't viewing it much as a debate, just answering the post so you would understand. I spend more time in meditation than in a church.

I am glad to "hear" that :)

may peace and love be with you!

[night_gaunt]

I am glad to "hear" that :)

may peace and love be with you!

And with you my friend.

[oak_owl]

When I first began to experience an expansion/awakening I used to tell anybody and everybody and yet I don't recall many people that truely listened. Perhaps the only two chaps that did listen to what must have appeared to be bordering an incessant 'rant' were two freemasons who were attending a philosophy course that I had enrolled upon. One of the masons was the lecturer and the other a friend of his.

Since then, I never try and force my beliefs/understandings upon anybody because I have come to believe/realise that not everybody is on earth to experience what I or other developed spirits are here to experience and they quite simply arn't ready or willing to embrace a new paradigm due to what appears to me to be an inbuilt mental blockage where they are unwilling to embrace anything other than the existing worldview quite simply because they are happy enough plodding along as they are.

The only type of person I would make an attempt to share any knowledge with today would be somebody who had taken magic mushrooms or DMT because I would know that they had already experienced a considerable shift of perception and would therefore be a suitable mind to engage within an expansionist conversation.

[thushara_alwis]

My intuition still tells me that I have to get the truth out there and I must follow it, it is the very me, my comsic self guiding me.

And I have learned one thing over the past months, follow your heart more than anything.


My biggest problem or "fear" now is, approaching my family. For now I still live abroad but I am going to return home soon. I have not seen my family in about a year when I get home.

Since I truely love them and want to help them I am concerned about the approach. For hours I tried to figure out how to unreveal this story.

Have any of you had any experiences like this with your own relatives, your close family?Family is usually the hardest to convince. Whatever you did out of immaturity in your formative years, they also will include that as part of the overall impression on you, unless you do something drastic that changes that impression.

Therefore exists the paradox that complete strangers are more likely to hear you out than your own family.

And on the topic of the New Age, Mr Icke himself has explained that the New Age theme was hijacked by the control system which realized an Awakening was taking place in the sixties. They spun it to trap those who were waking up, which delayed true Awakening to now.

The timing of this is interesting. When Mr Icke had his experience in Peru, it was in the turn of the 90's decade. I speculate, if my memory serves me well, that the New Age hype was by then beginning to dissipate (if not completely dissipated) when people began to realize nothing was really changing.
In the early 90's the internet bandwidth combined with the emerging processing power of computers as well as the applications required to make internet communications possible was about to reach the critical mass needed to explode in networking which would enable information trying to get past the control grid to achieve a level of prominence that would allow much more people to access this information.

[lycaeus]

I feel a bit embarassed now, looking back on my conspiracy rants as a teenager. I would get all proud i had this 'special knowledge' and go on and annoy people to death:D I knew a lot, but I wasn't much, just a spewer of information. Knowledge without wisdom is useless. People get that there is evil and corruption in the world but they like to keep it at a safe distance.

People don't like having their reality fucked with! They will defend their illusions with a deathgrip:confused::mad:. It's hard to know what to say and when to say it. I find people are attracted to me when I am emotionally stable and calm, slightly happy. People clue into vibes more than words. It's not so much what you say as it is the way you say it that actually gets across.

Now I keep most things to myself and use my discontent to drive me to do something constructive.

Most people will NEVER admit anything that goes against general social programming. Anyone believe in the 'organic portal/soulless or spirtless human theory? I think it explains a lot.

[thushara_alwis]

I think there are people who do want to listen but they are not in the right frame of mind. There are times when one can feel unusually cynical and any positive thing that is impacted upon them is viewed with disdain or even utter hatred, not out of genuine hate but a suspicion or paranoia that everything coming their way must be bad because they have normalized to the idea that reality is a negative experience.

[symbiot]

Everyone has core beliefs that are self-sustaining. Anything that conflicts with a persons core beliefs will be rejected. Unfortunately, most of those beliefs are imposed by society, parents, religion, etc.
It's not until someone actually looks at their core beliefs and why they believe them, until they're able to identify the root of why they believe something, that they're able to decide if that's something they want to continue believing or not.
This is why trying to win someone over or share with them can feel so frustrating or useless. No matter what you tell them, they will not accept it or even hear it.
This is why it's important for everyone to find their own way through self-examination. If there's anything to convey to others, it's to explore ones self and find out why you believe what you do.

[thushara_alwis]

This is my opinion... but I think that's where you are absolutely wrong, because at the end there is only one truth. And it is evan written in the bible ( I do not recall which psalm though). If you have read it carefull enough it will tell you not to hold on to the stones that churches are made from.

We are all gods, because everything is made of god, as long as you deny this you will be trapped in a vicious circle.

When do christian priests ever tell the people to look for god in you heart, in yourself? NEVER, you shall pray and live in fear of a god that is willing to kill his creation with plagues and floods.... yea fuck a god like that!Which is why I thought religion is bullshit. It has programmed people to accept it as another dimension of their self identity and surround themselves in a bubble of pre-conceived ideas.

Talk about spirituality and some mouth breathing religious fanatic will come in to give me his one hour lecture why if I don't believe in HIS god I will go to hell. Then to top it all off he will then say I have a choice to either follow the word of his god or go to hell. With his god having the kind of disciples like him, I rather go to hell. The girls are 'hotter' down there anyway.

[harry501]

What if all this New Age Movement and Enlightenment and Love and Light is what is doing the brainwashing?

Baring in mind, most of the concetps fit perfectly well in with that of occult practices and pagan beliefs of bringing out your Inner God through meditation, ascending to a higher power, travelling astral planes, etc. A little research and you'll find these ARE occult practices wrapped up in luvy duvy shiny paper.

Love and Light.... Lucifer is the occult God, he was the Angel of light, The Morning Star. If you are religious minded (and the New Age is a religion these days, some say the NWO religion of choice as it keeps everyone in a state of emotional zombie like feelings) then you'll be aware that The Serpent tried to give man Forbidden Knowledge.... what could be more forbidden than humans wanting to become Godlike, to float out their bodies, even levitate in some Eastern practices through advanced Yoga techniques.

A few months ago I started taking panic attacks after diving head first into the NAM. I mediated and felt my body charge up and one night thought I was going to hit the roof. It was not natural. I lost appetite at work and started to become truly self righteous, seeing the ugly in fellow man and judging him too... the same way I read that most of you want to force people to wake up! I then had regular palpatations and didn't feel myself.

Not believing in a God or Creator is a dangerous concept. It is one we will never know unless some higher power tells us, but to not acknoeldge that we came from some Source is very niave imo. i respect those who don't though as I know it can't be proven by man.

Just be careful of New Age, some researchers long ago said it would be the religion of the New World Order, under an AntiChrist of sorts.... that's looking more and more evident by the day.

No offense to anyone.

[godgoo]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

Coz they have around 3cm abover their eyebrows and another good few cm after that :).

[trev1]

you just said it yourself - leave them to themselves. It's not your responsibility to wake anyone up and in my experience it's pretty much a waste of time, and just ends in frustration and stress. :(

Many a person has tried to change the world and failed. :rolleyes:

Start with yourself, wake yourself up, live the best you can, be the best person you can be. Thats all you can do, and remember as Bill Hicks once said 'It's just a ride' .....:D

[tarb]

My own personal experience of trying to wake people up has been very difficult. People are so influenced by official sources of information that they find anything contrary very difficult to take on board. For example with the banking scam peope I spoke to about it being manufactured couldn't take it on board because they could not understand the reasoning behind why those at the top would want the sytem to collapse. The idea of it being down to foolishness, selfishness and inherent flaws in the system make far more sense to them. While these are partly true they dont think that the powers that be knew all this and knew that people would blame it on these things.
If I explain about global depopulation they also struggle to take on this board and the idea that it could be done through famine, war and disease. Sometimes I think it is 'the less you have the more you see.' If everything is going good for you-holidays, nice job, car and house you cant imagine that there is a global conspiracy to reduce the population and potentially take all that away from you.I am also coming to the conclusion that it is how you present the information and sometimes who it is coming from that makes the difference as to how much people are willing to take on board. For example when I introduced my mam to Alex Jones nothing he said really went in but when Jim Corr, a nice Irish man, was saying pretty much the same thing, she was hanging on his every word.
There is the then the further problem of when people do take on board some of the information they dont feel they can do anything about it and just have the attitude that they need to look after themselves and thats all they can do.
On the positive side intuitively I feel that all this stuff is going to explode on a massive scale very soon where noone will have to feel embarrassed or awkward about bringing this stuff up because it will be common knowledge but how it will manifest I dont know..

[earthwalkr]

Apostata,

Your real purpose here is not to convince others of the TRUTH, your truth.
It is up to the individual what they will believe and then act on.
You are only to LOVE. Everyone. No matter what.

You can love them, send them love even if you do not like them or agree with them.

Focus on your heart and the sending out of love, instead of changing their minds, informing them, etc. That's a waste of your time and energy.

Love is always the answer. :D

[mrmiyagi]

Spirituality is seeking understanding, Religion is seeking reward...<enough said

The best way to get threw to people is open doors... bring up a "DOT" to get them thinking and connect it to another dot. If it takes David Icke, someone who researched this for 20+ years to explain it in 10 hours what chance do you have in a conversation? Best advice i would give someone is don't believe anything, Question everything, even if it makes perfect since Question Why it makes since...

I have a very tough project on my hands... My brother is a square with five corners i swear, hes a devote roman catholic, knights templar, military school graduate, & TSA agent...need i say anymore?

[reve]

no one alive knows whether the Red Sea parted or not. A spirit may be able to appear walking on water, but unless you have seen one you cannot be sure. What we do know is that the Old Testament was mostly written over 1000 years after the events decribed in Exodus. That the New Testament was written by people who had never met Jesus. Mohammed claims that Gabriel dictated the Koran to him but had no witnesses...most people in fact do not believe much they have not personally experienced but in order to get by in society they make out that they do. they may be honest about that but perhaps not with strangers. Not knowing and not believing are perceived by many as a weakness in the face of others who seem to know and believe.

If you insist that there is no God and no Jesus where exactly do you get that certainty? Because if it is instinctive that is where many believers get their certainty. From my understanding of the people who can be relied upon not to be lying and lived good lives, there was something special about them. Their faces did shine in a way. And many of them met the spiritual Jesus. My father was an honest man and a priest and he certainly experienced many extraordinary things in his life, especially with the many people that he attended as they died. He had no doubt about a spiritual Christ but was open about the fact that the Bible was not 100% truthful about a physical one.

A Cardinal on TV admitted Jesus was not a physical man ever, but said that it would hurt the world to admit that and was probably right. Most people are better for trying to be forgiving, honest and charitable. Santa Claus may not have existed - do you want to open the eyes of kids who put out stockings? Does it make the world better if one stops fabricating nursery rhymes, folk tales, indeed the stories our ancestors told round the fires? Obviously exaggerated over time. It is part of our learning process and was part of yours, but where you are today is not necessarily the end of that.

When one is adament that there is no God one is on difficult ground. You cannot prove it - there is more proof in fact that there is a spiritual life, even an after life judging from many near death experiences. Do you believe in clairvoyance? If you are clairvoyant you do and if you encounter good clairvoyants you may. They tend to believe in a 'Lord of Spirits'. Miracles do happen - they are not all lies. Many saints did not decay after death, or not for a long time and were carried around to prove it. The Tibetan Book of the Dead was not composed by a nutcase. Nor were the Pyramid Texts known as the Egyptian Book of the Dead that show the after life. The gods of the Hindus are similar in many respects to many other cultures. The Mother Goddess our planet is considered now by many scientists and wise people as something that is alive and thinks.

Look at the microbes on you and in you. They may deny you exist - some live for seconds. You are a microbe on a possibly thinking planet, itself a microbe in this galaxy, one of so many in this universe that they are all microbes. Do not assume that the whole has no thoughts or feelings if you have. Perhaps assume that it has more. This is what 'as above so below' is about. There are many good threads about such things which defy easy explanations - This is my favourite but probably because I have written so much on it!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19142

I do think that the op here has raised the most important question in this age, perhaps the question that David Icke set the forum up to answer. And not 'believing' what you are told is the exemplary way to find out what really is out there. Sensitivity is as important as an open eye though. But the old Christian adage is also relevant. It is to do worrying about the splinter in another's eye while having a beam in one's own. Yes people need to open their eyes, but we must ensure we really have opened our eyes first before expecting them to. It is easy to think we have but are we what the sages in the East call 'enlightened'? As there are only one or two per generation we may not be as enlightened as we think. And that is how come there are so many well meaning teachers dictating things which are not exactly true but they do not realise that.

Excuse me for intruding on a nice thread and doing what I critcise others for, but we all tend to do that here.

reve x

[reve]

I remember a Somerset gypsy many years ago telling me about an old remedy they had. They would mix magic mushrooms with mares milk and honey and cook it into a kind of cake like halva. Now finding the mushrooms is difficult. At one time it was easier but they do not like fertiliser etc. But supposing you can find one of the few fields where they still grow you need to be there quite early in the morning in the couple of Autumn weeks when they pop up. They are only tiny and hard to see but after finding one it is easier. And of course you need to be there before the others, and you may not find many or any. That is quite usual for the shroom seeker who leaves London at midnight for some special sheep field in Wales every year. I am not suggesting that anyone eat the things - there are many similar looking poisonous ones growing round them and they are very psychoactive - no guarantee you would like that and some will find it terrifying and sickening.

I mention them here as they are hard to find as are spirits. Spirits do not appear every day and are usually found in special places at special times by those who know what they are looking for. The nomadic gypsies of old would not be the ones who did not believe in the existence of the nature spirits, nor the souls of their ancestors who might only come out on two days in the year and in a particular place at a particular time. Even so few have the training or ‘gene’ required to actually see or sense them for real.

The thing about LSD was that it opened the eyes of many hippies to another reality. I am not recommending that either. But after one strong trip nothing was the same again. You might not call it God but certainly things you thought impossible appeared to be the norm. Huxley wrote about this when he was dying. Well mushrooms are similar in a way. Mushroom tea was a little pick me up in a spiritual sense. The gypsies in the West country also made tea with poppy stalks at the end of the Summer and I am not recommending that either. But one can see that some people who love in nature and with it experience something different to the McDonalds crew in town.

What is written about manna in the Bible, bearing in mind it was written long after the story about it, shows much in common. You cannot keep the mushrooms as by the end of the day they will be full of maggots. The flies lay eggs in them before you even get there. That was true of manna. They said it tasted of honey - the mushrooms do not but as I wrote above can be cooked and preserved by honey without turning to worms. They can also be dried if you do it fast enough and correctly. These are old country habits. In fact they grow all over the world and many cultures know that. The UK made them illegal in the 70’s I think after a few thousand years of use by gypsies, witches and even hermits or monks.

It is said too that ‘Jesus’ used them. The fact is that if you want to believe in spirits you need to find them and they are as elusive as mushrooms. But if you have been looking for many years with others who know what to look for you can find them. Then you can believe. These days you can go out and declare there are no magic mushrooms or spirits. Few know much about either and those that do are considered, and I suppose could be, ‘mad‘. But when the op wrote about opening eyes I do not think this was exactly what was intended. The Egyptians used these herbs and the psychoactive blue lotus. The Tibetan lamas and shamen too. And spirit world is what they wrote about. One can deny it as a myth but that does not mean your eyes are open. This modern world did not want our eyes opened in that way and criminalised all the psychoactive substances - including Mescaline and Peyote cactus. As this stuff may make you sick but does not kill you and was of interest only to the seekers, it is hard to understand what they have against it. But it is all highly illegal and that is it. Politicians who decide these things are not very knowledgeable in the old ways but like so many these days think they know it all.

Reve x

[lonewolf11]

One day at work I was saying that I thought that The powerful politicans and company leaders were sometimes meeting, and drinking coffee; as a joke. I have never talked about politics or conspiracys or anything like that before. And a co-worker who I dont know yelled out that It wasnt true. This guy doenst know me at all, so I thought it was strange. Another co-worker said that offcourse they dont drink coffee, they drink beer. And we started talking about beer drinking instead...

[lotusrose]

seems hard and you may think they have cotton balls in their ears cos they are like robots come home sit and watch the news and its gospel to them. they are set in their ways.

[blue2]

Indoctrinated and safer to stay inside their comfort zones,they think,or don't think and cannot get their brains around new ways of thinking,in fact i've noticed a lot of peoples short term memories are cutting out as i speak with them on any subject,peoples food junked brains are decreasing and damaged,never mind anything else like getting their heads around all this!

[1zenith]

Ya i know jesus is real but NOT the son of god. I have seen jesus like 3 times in meditated state. Twice on an airplane in meditative state and once saw an angel on airplane in meditative state. I see the angels when i meditate with my cd as well as the reptilians. I believe god is just all the angles. i can see them. they try to help us all the time. but that only makes sense to me. they never been human. they have powers like the Reptiles/fallen angels. And if fallen angels are SATAN. hello!!!! The good angles are GOD!!!! That is MY opinion. But what created those forces? I have no idea.
Like david icke says we can tell ppl by word of mouth about what he talks about which is what I do. I dont feel i can really do anything else. I dont take presc drugs I dont drink tap water etc etc either.. How do we go back to the holographic universe??

[lady of the lake]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

Yes, this is where EGO wants to control your eyes wide open :)


But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Well because they are still asleep and in denial!


Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

There is a God though. An energy. A person to some. If you let go of your 'energy' or God, you don't exist any more, surely?
Survival mechanism....

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.

Yes, do. Let sleeping dogs lie :D



Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

Your ego wants to tell them. Just breathe and be yourself, minus your EGO.
For with ego engaged you yourself are not yet truly awake.
Peace.

[oiram]

Family is usually the hardest to convince. Whatever you did out of immaturity in your formative years, they also will include that as part of the overall impression on you, unless you do something drastic that changes that impression.

Therefore exists the paradox that complete strangers are more likely to hear you out than your own family.

And on the topic of the New Age, Mr Icke himself has explained that the New Age theme was hijacked by the control system which realized an Awakening was taking place in the sixties. They spun it to trap those who were waking up, which delayed true Awakening to now.

The timing of this is interesting. When Mr Icke had his experience in Peru, it was in the turn of the 90's decade. I speculate, if my memory serves me well, that the New Age hype was by then beginning to dissipate (if not completely dissipated) when people began to realize nothing was really changing.
In the early 90's the internet bandwidth combined with the emerging processing power of computers as well as the applications required to make internet communications possible was about to reach the critical mass needed to explode in networking which would enable information trying to get past the control grid to achieve a level of prominence that would allow much more people to access this information.
Bring the thread back to life .......

In reality you can not ever convince anyone!

The convincing is always in your own court.

Believers appear to be easily convinced ...... but are they; or is it the following syndrome which makes it appear this way?


Regarding your family comment this quote comes to mind from your forefathers


Really have to switch on the thinking machine to not misunderstand the wisely written text.

Takes some time for this to sink in the correct logical way! ...... very interesting how some words are placed into brackets.


105. The Revealer said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore."

55. The Savior said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."

101. "Whoever does not hate [father] and mother as I do cannot be my [disciple], and whoever does [not] love [father and] mother as I do cannot be my [disciple]. For my mother [...], but my true [mother] gave me life."
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html (http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html)

[decode reality]

Hello everybody,


when I first truely opened my eyes recently, (I did once before but got blinded again) I felt like I have to spread the word and help my fellow men.

But why do they just not want to listen? I have talked to people, being very carefull about this subject, meaning that I did not just splash out everything at once but approached this matter step by step.

Whenever I come to the point that there is no god and no real jesus, (as in son of god) even the pretty open-minded people just won't let go of their god damn god!!!

I started to wonder if I should just let them to their selves. It just seems to me that the ones who are not ready to accept the truth, are just not ready to leave this cruel physical world.


Where any of you successfull? Should we help them even when they fight it, or just mention it and when we see that they don't want to hear it, just drop the subject?

Here's a good metaphor: If someone is sound asleep and you come along at 4am, dragging them out of bed and telling them they need to stay awake and listen to you, how do you think they'll respond? They won't be too pleased, right? Yet this is what we tend to do ESPECIALLY when we've just begun on this new path.

Everyone has their own journey and internal clock, so if you get resistance, best to back off and work on your own development. Give the information if you want, but share it without being attached to how someone responds. No-one is obliged to believe you, and you could have every single dot connected.

Then again, you might not. It's human nature to share ideas you're passionate about but don't always presume you're "awake" and evolved just because you've read a book or two or seen a few vids. I compare that to new religious converts who feel they have to convert everyone else.

Think of how you learnt this new information. I dare say most people on this forum found this stuff out of their own volition. No-one FORCED them. Part of people's disappointment is that they forget this; they try to force info on others.

[bacsy]

One day at work I was saying that I thought that The powerful politicans and company leaders were sometimes meeting, and drinking coffee; as a joke. I have never talked about politics or conspiracys or anything like that before. And a co-worker who I dont know yelled out that It wasnt true. This guy doenst know me at all, so I thought it was strange. Another co-worker said that offcourse they dont drink coffee, they drink beer. And we started talking about beer drinking instead...

Sounds like the R-Complex kicking in. His cosy belief systems survival was at stake.