Masons tricks and tactics

[secondfamilyuk]

Second Family UK - Human rights newsletter No 23/08
We are all victims of Freemasonry/Common Purpose

Because people are ignorant to taboo subjects like the Freemasons and Common Purpose (same legal gang) we have started our Independent Human Rights groups all over the UK. We have had to take a different angle on this because all human rights groups are controlled by the authorities. Scotland has no human rights groups at all and this is wrong. When are the people going to waken up ? SF will continue to be and we will work alongside our Independent Human Rights. This will help us gather more info and support for us all. Here at SF, we know much, much more than we reveal at this stage. SF's Crescendo (gradually getting louder).

FM/CP expose. If you say Common Purpose really quickly, you will find that it sounds and spells like "COMPASS". The Masons are mad about their Square and Compass. Both tools used by early Masons. Very symbolic and Masonic icons used in lots of FM connotations and brainwash. Fact; All Masons are possessed by a criminal network/organisation.

Correction to newsletter SF22. Gordon Cameron's excellent book/expose (only 50p to download) on the Freemasons can be found at www.Lulu.com/GordonKameron Get it now before the crooked Masons make it disappear.

There is a large conspiracy website called Above Top Secret. SF has sent them 7 emails to ask why they keep removing our articles ?
No reply from them. We know of several FM trolls who regularly post there. We hope it is not just another FM disinformation site. Please post something anti-Masonic and let us know how you go on. Heres another Masonic pretend clean up dodgy website at www.letsfixbritain.com We emailed him and he replied by calling us cretins ! You should email him and ask his true intentions or ask him for help (pretend). All Masons/Common Purpose members will blatantly lie (Rule No1) that they are not FM/CP members.

Did you get your latest copy of The UK column ? If you want to know about real corrupt politics, this is a must read for all truth-seekers. Go to www.ukcolumn.org or call them on 01752 312 743 or for urgent editorial on 07841 464 187 especially if you have had a problem with Common Purpose, like bullying, being ill since stress management course, trouble with social services, ganging up on you, thrown out of your church, your children taken away, bullied by police or just fearful of the moral decline in society.
Email editor@ukcolumn.org or write to UK Column, County House, 12 Sussex St, Plymouth PL1 2HR

More SF expose; Masons are mad about the colour Blue. This is the dominant colour (Royal Blue) in Freemasonry. Anonymous FMs said look in the front or rear of their gardens and you will find Blue ceramic plant-pots or Blue bird baths/feeders. Or Blue vehicle,
Blue clothes pegs (yes we've got it on video) Police (boys in Blue), Blue house numbers at their home or business. Blue background to their business signs or adverts. Blue painted gates and doors. The Masons normally have something Blue (at front/rear of house) that lets other pretend brothers know they are Masons. Blue items on car dash/rear shelf (no parking ticket). Checkout Blue Blanket. Don't forget to checkout their vehicle registration, very relevant. Also look for a Rose etched or imprinted on their glass doors. An Owl or Lion or Horned symbols. An arch (Royal Arch Degree) on top of their doors. An arch or half round above their doors in the shape of the sun-rays, i.e. it represents their Masonic Sun-god. Connections to a sports club who's predominant colour is Blue. These findings do not imply that these are Masons, just connect this and the other Masonic icons, symbols and numbers. If you are not sure, contact us at SF. The other colours the Masons love are Yellow or Gold. Yellow represents the colour of their Sun God, Sun Rays, and Sun Light, etc. Gold is the most noble of metals (more FM tosh). The new chosen colour for English Masonry (instead of their black tie image) is light/dark Blue and Gold. Scotland's Masons still wear a Black Ties to their meetings. As above, do your own investigations and let SF know your findings. We will pass this info on to everyone, victim or not. You should do the same.Chas

Although we know that the higher levels of Freemasonry practice witchcraft, lower Masons are not knowingly part of this. They are just another tool to be used. The lower levels are definitely all pretend, i.e. pretend friendships (esp. with us profane), pretend brothers, sisters, grannies, etc. There is no doubt about it that Masons are definitely in it for the money. All at the expense of anything good. Freemasons are "SCABS" in the true sense of the word. They do not care about the damage and consequences of their actions. They ONLY breathe Freemasonry, nothing else. These freaks are no longer human. LP

Masonic Codes: they use a combination of numbers, letters and symbols to communicate and persecute. Here are the most important letters to be found within the Masonic Codes, A, B, D, F, G, L, M, V, W & Y (also GG or MM together) lots more to follow.

Masons like Jesters, Harlequins, Punch n' Judy. They are crazy about grid reference numbers and longitude and latitude references (lots of historical facts and events of these). Masons love to drive any model of Mitsubishi Motors, it has a Masonic symbol and it also tells other Masons that "MM" means Master Mason. They use the same "MM" Masonic Code in their names or their business names or vehicle registrations or children's names (esp. last 35 years approx) for instance Emma, Tommy, Sammy, Jimmy, Gemma, Mickey Mouse, Mike Martin etc, The letters M & A also appears to be a favourite in the Masons pet names. anon

More Masonic Codes; If you know any Masonic families, the whole family will have an "A" in their christian names. The only exception if they already have an "A" in their surname. The A represents the "All Seeing Eye" and also the same shape as their Compass (The Masonic logo of the Square and Compass). If you don't believe us, how many FM businesses do you know with an important A in it ? Abbey, AA, AOL, Marsh, Carlyle group (search online at U Tube, Guba, Google Video, etc) Have a look at businesses with Blue/Compass or Square. This should wet your whistle. Know your enemy. John T

Masonic Codes; Trees, yes, the names/types of trees are very symbolic to the Masons. Use this in your investigations. We promise you will not be disappointed. Other terms/names/nicknames we are working on Adam, Peggy, Shadow, Hanged man, Take a look at the name Adam; A + D (4th letter of the alphabet, Masons love number 4 as in four sides to a square) then A, then M for Mason and Adam includes the two letters of A & M (no offence to all non-Masonic "Adams") anon

Birds are very prominent in the Masonic Codes. The Owl, Eagle, Peregrine Falcon, Robin, Blackbird (more to follow)

The Masons will also try to get an "L" into their children's names or their vehicle registration. The "L" is the shape of the Mason's Square. They love names that start with L (or contain at least one L) and better with two L's like William, Michelle, Danielle, etc

Look at their christian names for the letters "A and M" in any order or "A and L", Amanda, Alicia, Allistair, Mandy, Lana, etc. The same with vehicle registrations and business names. We've been told that the letter "B" is Masonic, if you split the "B" up, it looks like 1-3, i.e. number 13 very symbolic to FMs. "B" also represents Blue, Blazing Star, Baal, Brethren and Rabbie Burns. We are still working on other Masonic letters n' codes (please send more guys) anon

The letter "Y" is very symbolic, it represents the Mason's brainwash of Horns, i.e. Goat, Ram or the Horned God. You will see a "Y" on most Mason's vehicle registrations. This is how they recognise each other (as well as other FM numbers/letters). They used to be invisible, not any more. SF is surprised at the anonymous info coming in from ex-Masons who have read the truth online. The future depends on the good guys, help us at SF. To all activists and truthseekers, we love you, keep it up and make us grow. anon

If you want to dig deeper to help your investigation or story, then get online and search for Masonic Abbreviations or Masonic numbers, etc. When searching, try different terms like, Freemasons Codes, Freemasonry, Masons Tactics, Secret societies, Masonic secrets, etc. Search for Mackeys Encyclopedia and use the links as well. Always follow the links to gather more info.

When someone says "You're a star" be very wary. It's a reference to The Order Of The Eastern Star (for female Masons) or they will say "She's a star". This is Masonic code talk. OES is for men and women. Lots more to follow. (Sandra)

Here's another fascinating one. If anyone tells you someone they know is very good at working out codes, be very wary. (+ more )

Know anyone who's been to the USA? Places like Phoenix, Arizona (AKA Valley of the Sun). Also Los Angeles or Las Vegas ? it is something to do with the A's and the L's, i.e. the Square and Compass or vice versa. Lot's more we are working on. Keep your family and friends close to your chest and keep these Masonic enemies even closer. A lot of us victims at SF are friendly with some of these Masonic freaks. We know they are our pretend friends and that they are only close to us to persecute us. We know they are Masons but we let them think they are clever. It's a great way to document them. Can you believe these low level Masons think they are working for MMI5 ? Yes, they think they are on a high level mission to save the country or whatever other claptrap they have been told. Incidentally, MMI5 means "Mickey Mouse Intelligence Five". It's a cracker. You have no idea how thick some people really are, but that's how the elite make money. These dumb Masons actually pay to be a member, how dumb is that ? Billy (not goat)

For society's sake, let's blackball (reject) the Masons. This means expose these freaks for what they are, and ignore them. Don't talk to them as if they were an ordinary person (they're definitely not). This is what they do to their victims, they ostracize you. Let's tell all of their neighbours, friends, colleagues and anyone else about their involvement in this evil criminal network/organisation.
We at SF will back you up or point them towards our website or www.ljpr.info

Here's a cheap brilliant way to set up situations to help your story. Get yourself a cheap Digital Voice Recorder for £25 from Argos. Its called Mikomi and it has an external microphone so that you can clip it to your clothing, hidden around your neck. You can also speak to it just like a diary (now you can document everything esp. when harassed). It records for hours. Check it out. Tim

Fact; Masons are possessed, period. Next time you talk to a suspected Mason, just ask "Are you possessed by the Masons?", they do not like this, watch their body language. Here's another important fact about Mason's human rights. The Masons want to use the human rights laws to protect them from giving us a public register of Masons ? ARE THEY SERIOUS ?, what about the extensive damage they are doing 24/7/365 Do you seriously think this evil cares about human rights? Fact; Freemasonry infects everything it comes into contact with. Checkout www.freemasonrywatch.org for lots more expose on this criminal network. JP

Second Family UK have hit the nail on the head big time. We have sent four revealing articles to every MP and Newspaper (large & small) in the UK. They know about this serious legal crime and the Dodgy Masons doing nothing about it. How can they sit and take a wage ? How come nothing is being done ? The answer is very simple. The Secret Societies have hijacked our Government and Media and nobody cares ????? Not one person has disputed a single word that Second Family has said. This is comprehensive proof that SF have got it 100% right. We have genuine anonymous information that they (big fish) have sown the seeds to bring these crooks down, but not fast enough for us. We still want a meeting with representatives from this criminal charity called Freemasonry. We want to do this with transparency in front of a live independent audience (for the world to see). What is the problem with this request ? We have a wealth of information to bring this monster down. You cannot keep the status quo, it's 100% corrupt and it's way out of control. To all crooked politicians and journalists "Curse the elite and Curse you for doing nothing" You have all knowingly done (for reward) your bit to destroy what could easily be heaven (still can be) for us all. Life is pure shit and much worse to come (FM/CP or not). Incidentally, these Masonic Freaks are doing everything to stop us, that's how possessed they really are.

Second Family UK are a support group for victims of Freemasonry & Common Purpose. www.secondfamily-uk.com We are not a revenge or hatred group, only to peacefully campaign for change. Everyone has the right to reply, please be focused and sensible.
Contact/write to SF at 93 Ashburn Road, Glasgow G62 7PQ or call 0141 560 4743 or mobiles 07834 329 287 or 07799 612 227 (leave details/message and we'll call you back asap) or email voacs@ mac or kim.stirling@ntlworld.com Make sure you get a reply as the Masons will try to stop the truth. Please continue to send info, ideas and suggestions. Join SF, it's absolutely free. This newsletter is brought to you by SF & Joe Stirling, a veteran victim of Freemasonry & Common Purpose. Small donations welcome to help us keep up this important cause. If you do nothing today, the Masons will continue unhindered with their NWO plans.

[edelweiss pirate]

Brilliant stuff. I want you to post more here.....

[edelweiss pirate]

There is a large conspiracy website called Above Top Secret. SF has sent them 7 emails to ask why they keep removing our articles ?
No reply from them. We know of several FM trolls who regularly post there. We hope it is not just another FM disinformation site. Please post something anti-Masonic and let us know how you go on. Heres another Masonic pretend clean up dodgy website at www.letsfixbritain.com We emailed him and he replied by calling us cretins ! You should email him and ask his true intentions or ask him for help (pretend). All Masons/Common Purpose members will blatantly lie (Rule No1) that they are not FM/CP members.


It is... been there, fought that battle long long ago... most people just don't care or are scared of masons. Only two or three people tried to turn the tide, me and true lilly.... all the rest of the so called forumers.... too damn lazy so we lost ATS to the masons.

Many mods are masons and mason lovers.... It sucks....

Don't worry, everyone will find their way here sooner or later.

[edelweiss pirate]

Masons like Jesters, Harlequins, Punch n' Judy. They are crazy about grid reference numbers and longitude and latitude references (lots of historical facts and events of these). Masons love to drive any model of Mitsubishi Motors, it has a Masonic symbol and it also tells other Masons that "MM" means Master Mason. They use the same "MM" Masonic Code in their names or their business names or vehicle registrations or children's names (esp. last 35 years approx) for instance Emma, Tommy, Sammy, Jimmy, Gemma, Mickey Mouse, Mike Martin etc, The letters M & A also appears to be a favourite in the Masons pet names. anon

Isn't there a mason clown on the forum calling himself Mike Martin?

Dingleberries.

[edelweiss pirate]

Correction to newsletter SF22. Gordon Cameron's excellent book/expose (only 50p to download) on the Freemasons can be found at www.Lulu.com/GordonKameron Get it now before the crooked Masons make it disappear.

Got it, it's a great read.

[godhelpme]

as a freemason victim i found SF's site and victimisation story on another site.
I had some issues with it and posted them on the site, low and behold they were all removed by SF who modded there. Now he complains about people removing his posts. That's funny. Some of my points to him were about parts of his story being nonsense, which doesn't help encourage people to a so called 'collective', and i have found him/her to be disingenuine by their actions on the other site.
I ended up complaining on the forum and wondered why, if free speech isn't allowed by the head of SF, is this person actually trying to help victims or disrupt them.

[edelweiss pirate]

as a freemason victim i found SF's site and victimisation story on another site.
I had some issues with it and posted them on the site, low and behold they were all removed by SF who modded there. Now he complains about people removing his posts. That's funny. Some of my points to him were about parts of his story being nonsense, which doesn't help encourage people to a so called 'collective', and i have found him/her to be disingenuine by their actions on the other site.
I ended up complaining on the forum and wondered why, if free speech isn't allowed by the head of SF, is this person actually trying to help victims or disrupt them.

You need to qualify this I feel because SF is being massively targetted by masons. How do we know you are not a mason in disguise. Odd that you would rather attack SF on this site than the masons themselves.

So who do you think is the bigger threat SF or the masons.

Post your personal story here please!

Because anyone can fling shit until it sticks.

I personally find NOTHING strange about SF's story. Chimes a great deal with what I've experienced. Particularly the Street Theatre stuff. But SF doesn't have the full picture sadly. If he did he would no longer be their victim but their master.

[chestnutlodge]

edelweiss pirate - Because anyone can fling shit until it sticks.

But that is exactly what you are doing against the freemasons?

[secondfamilyuk]

To our hero Edelweiss Pirate, ignore Freekmason Godhelpme, he's just another Masonic Troll who has taken the day off from Above Top Secret. This twat uses a lot of names in lots of forums. They can't/won't read nothing. Only search for spelling or grammar mistakes. He gets paid for wasting everybody's time and spreads misinformation. The guys a freek, pointless waste of oxygen.

Keep up the great work and you know you are welcome at www.secondfamily-uk anytime.

Joe Stirling

[chestnutlodge]

To our hero Edelweiss Pirate, ignore Freekmason Godhelpme, he's just another Masonic Troll who has taken the day off from Above Top Secret. This twat uses a lot of names in lots of forums. They can't/won't read nothing. Only search for spelling or grammar mistakes. He gets paid for wasting everybody's time and spreads misinformation. The guys a freek, pointless waste of oxygen.

Keep up the great work and you know you are welcome at www.secondfamily-uk anytime.

Joe Stirling

Oh no spelling and grammar errors, must try harder!!

[mike martin]

This twat uses a lot of names in lots of forums. They can't/won't read nothing.

Ohh this sounds like a description of someone I've come across before oh yes, Joe Stirling AKA Billy AKA Chas AKA Kim Stirling except of course they all use the same user ID on bilderberg and delete everything rather than reading it.

Of course I could be wrong and it's a multiple personality thing, who knows.

Mike

[darketernal]

To the Masons on this thread and the talk of flinging shit until it sticks, I come from a very long line of freemasons, and have at least 6 33rd degree Scottish Rite in my family, and I have a good idea of what goes on in the upper levels of the order. My advice is do not defend something if you do not know what it represents. If you do and still chose that path, remember, what goes around comes around. Personally I'm glad to have left all of it in my childhood.

[meridiansun]

as a freemason victim i found SF's site and victimisation story on another site.
How are you a victim of freemasonry?

[secondfamilyuk]

Oh no spelling and grammar errors, must try harder!!

is that chest nut lodge or fruit n' nut lodge ?
see our post to mike martin under "beware of the freekmasons"
are u mike? or flat chest ? or richard head ? (the latter)

masonic donkeys only eat masonic carrots

[hiram_abiff]

To the Masons on this thread and the talk of flinging shit until it sticks, I come from a very long line of freemasons, and have at least 6 33rd degree Scottish Rite in my family, and I have a good idea of what goes on in the upper levels of the order. My advice is do not defend something if you do not know what it represents. If you do and still chose that path, remember, what goes around comes around. Personally I'm glad to have left all of it in my childhood.


you are talkin crap mate, you dont have a clue what goes on.

[hiram_abiff]

How are you a victim of freemasonry?

the only thing he is a victim of is stupidity.

[darketernal]

you are talkin crap mate, you dont have a clue what goes on.

Yeah ok, who are you trying to convince me or yourself? If I don't have a clue, then please enlighten me oh wise widow's sun.

[godhelpme]

You need to qualify this I feel because SF is being massively targetted by masons. How do we know you are not a mason in disguise. Odd that you would rather attack SF on this site than the masons themselves.

So who do you think is the bigger threat SF or the masons.

Post your personal story here please!

Because anyone can fling shit until it sticks.

I personally find NOTHING strange about SF's story. Chimes a great deal with what I've experienced. Particularly the Street Theatre stuff. But SF doesn't have the full picture sadly. If he did he would no longer be their victim but their master.


firstly i didn't attack SF, i stated what happened (actually it was the bilderberg site now that somebody else reminded me), and i used exactly the same user name. I only now use this site as SF and his mod pals deleted fair arguments, which in part criticised sections of their story, but with the purpose of promoting a more cohesive cause (that of freemason victims).

I not trying to stop SF doing what he does, i was merely looking for support for myself. I took up the issues i had with his story, and had my posts removed. Finding that i could not support the SF flag under such circumstances i left it alone. I wish them all the best, and i can certainly see similarities in the abuse suffered.

The question of threat size is irrelevant.

i will not post my personal story anywhere on the net, as i don't think it would make any difference for a start, but mostly out of trust issues.

I wasn't flinging shit, just pointing out the lack of consistency from SF, when they complain about having posts removed, something i found they practise readily while Modding at Bilderberg.

With regard to SF's second post to me on this thread. How exactly do you expect people to take you seriously when you behave in such a childish and irrational manner?

My victimisation by the freemasons is completely coordinated, rehearsed and relentless, and totally against the principles of humanity let alone any religion. It's criminal behaviour. Yes i would like to do something about it, but i'm not divulging personal info to the likes of Stirling when they appear so stupid frankly. Would you?

[meridiansun]

I come from a very long line of freemasons, and have at least 6 33rd degree Scottish Rite in my family, and I have a good idea of what goes on in the upper levels of the order. My advice is do not defend something if you do not know what it represents. If you do and still chose that path, remember, what goes around comes around. Personally I'm glad to have left all of it in my childhood.
Why not educate us then? Clearly we do not have all the information to hand, so if you can give us specific examples of exactly what Freemasonry is about, including reliable sources of course, who knows, perhaps you'll convert us over to your way of thinking?

[darketernal]

Why not educate us then? Clearly we do not have all the information to hand, so if you can give us specific examples of exactly what Freemasonry is about, including reliable sources of course, who knows, perhaps you'll convert us over to your way of thinking?


I'm not in the business of converting people's way of thinking. That is your way. You are free to think what you want. I'm simply saying that some, not all, but some of the Masons on this forum know more than others and what they are typing and what they are thinking are not in harmony. Were I in their position I would probably be going to websites making efforts to convince people that Masonry is a positive and beneficial fraternal order, nothing more.

You do not have to believe the same as me. Freedom of thought is the most powerful right of the individual.

[meridiansun]

I'm not in the business of converting people's way of thinking. That is your way. You are free to think what you want. I'm simply saying that some, not all, but some of the Masons on this forum know more than others and what they are typing and what they are thinking are not in harmony. Were I in their position I would probably be going to websites making efforts to convince people that Masonry is a positive and beneficial fraternal order, nothing more.

You do not have to believe the same as me. Freedom of thought is the most powerful right of the individual.
Certainly not into converting people, that's not my intention and I agree totally that we are all free to choose what we want to believe. But through education, we gain knowledge and then are therefore free to make choices in our life.

You have indicated that you have specific knowledge of the working of Freemasons, having had them in your family. Why not share this information here, so we can all be better informed?

[chestnutlodge]

is that chest nut lodge or fruit n' nut lodge ?
see our post to mike martin under "beware of the freekmasons"
are u mike? or flat chest ? or richard head ? (the latter)

masonic donkeys only eat masonic carrots

How very drowl. If you are unable to string a sentance together or resort immediately to ridiculous insults, how is anyone able to even believe what you have written?

[mike martin]

I'm not in the business of converting people's way of thinking. That is your way. You are free to think what you want. I'm simply saying that some, not all, but some of the Masons on this forum know more than others and what they are typing and what they are thinking are not in harmony. Were I in their position I would probably be going to websites making efforts to convince people that Masonry is a positive and beneficial fraternal order, nothing more.

You do not have to believe the same as me. Freedom of thought is the most powerful right of the individual.

I'm defo not here either to be converted or to convert, everyone is entitled to their opinion and belief. However, it does gall me a bit to see people gobble up what is laid at their feet in order to make someone rich and which results in people who do not know me (or any of my fellow Masons) branding me as a liar.

I just like to fill in some of the conveniently over-looked facts that begin to show where the story stretches a bit thin :D:cool:

At its simplist Freemasonry is just a Fraternity and this is true for many, however it has strong moral lessons contained within its Ritual (this is called esoteric) which others choose to go deeper into. Some of us get really into the esoteric and go on from there to further esoteric stuff but that is a minority.

However, Freemasonry is not intended to take over the world or anything like that. If it was it would have done it centuries ago when such a task would have been much simpler.

Mike

[meridiansun]

Without being able to discuss politics or religion within the lodge, it does make world domination a tad bit difficult...

[darketernal]

However, Freemasonry is not intended to take over the world or anything like that. If it was it would have done it centuries ago when such a task would have been much simpler.

Mike

Oh now you are starting to sound like David Icke, great illuminated one.

[eternal_spirit]

Oh now you are starting to sound like David Icke, great illuminated one.
.......................

The whole system is Masonic. Even down to the Language used.

Some of us know more than you realize.

[thelonious]

Some of us know more than you realize.

And some know much less than they think. ;)

[finegreen]

:)

[chestnutlodge]

.......................

The whole system is Masonic. Even down to the Language used.

Some of us know more than you realize.


Sorry, I have missed something what complete system is masonic including the language?

I am glad you know more, so that you can tell me what on earth you are talking about?

[91181]

Second Family UK - Human rights newsletter No 23/08
We are all victims of Freemasonry/Common Purpose

Because people are ignorant to taboo subjects like the Freemasons and Common Purpose (same legal gang) we have started our Independent Human Rights groups all over the UK. We have had to take a different angle on this because all human rights groups are controlled by the authorities. Scotland has no human rights groups at all and this is wrong. When are the people going to waken up ? SF will continue to be and we will work alongside our Independent Human Rights. This will help us gather more info and support for us all. Here at SF, we know much, much more than we reveal at this stage. SF's Crescendo (gradually getting louder).

FM/CP expose. If you say Common Purpose really quickly, you will find that it sounds and spells like "COMPASS". The Masons are mad about their Square and Compass. Both tools used by early Masons. Very symbolic and Masonic icons used in lots of FM connotations and brainwash. Fact; All Masons are possessed by a criminal network/organisation.

Correction to newsletter SF22. Gordon Cameron's excellent book/expose (only 50p to download) on the Freemasons can be found at www.Lulu.com/GordonKameron Get it now before the crooked Masons make it disappear.

There is a large conspiracy website called Above Top Secret. SF has sent them 7 emails to ask why they keep removing our articles ?
No reply from them. We know of several FM trolls who regularly post there. We hope it is not just another FM disinformation site. Please post something anti-Masonic and let us know how you go on. Heres another Masonic pretend clean up dodgy website at www.letsfixbritain.com We emailed him and he replied by calling us cretins ! You should email him and ask his true intentions or ask him for help (pretend). All Masons/Common Purpose members will blatantly lie (Rule No1) that they are not FM/CP members.

Did you get your latest copy of The UK column ? If you want to know about real corrupt politics, this is a must read for all truth-seekers. Go to www.ukcolumn.org or call them on 01752 312 743 or for urgent editorial on 07841 464 187 especially if you have had a problem with Common Purpose, like bullying, being ill since stress management course, trouble with social services, ganging up on you, thrown out of your church, your children taken away, bullied by police or just fearful of the moral decline in society.
Email editor@ukcolumn.org or write to UK Column, County House, 12 Sussex St, Plymouth PL1 2HR

More SF expose; Masons are mad about the colour Blue. This is the dominant colour (Royal Blue) in Freemasonry. Anonymous FMs said look in the front or rear of their gardens and you will find Blue ceramic plant-pots or Blue bird baths/feeders. Or Blue vehicle,
Blue clothes pegs (yes we've got it on video) Police (boys in Blue), Blue house numbers at their home or business. Blue background to their business signs or adverts. Blue painted gates and doors. The Masons normally have something Blue (at front/rear of house) that lets other pretend brothers know they are Masons. Blue items on car dash/rear shelf (no parking ticket). Checkout Blue Blanket. Don't forget to checkout their vehicle registration, very relevant. Also look for a Rose etched or imprinted on their glass doors. An Owl or Lion or Horned symbols. An arch (Royal Arch Degree) on top of their doors. An arch or half round above their doors in the shape of the sun-rays, i.e. it represents their Masonic Sun-god. Connections to a sports club who's predominant colour is Blue. These findings do not imply that these are Masons, just connect this and the other Masonic icons, symbols and numbers. If you are not sure, contact us at SF. The other colours the Masons love are Yellow or Gold. Yellow represents the colour of their Sun God, Sun Rays, and Sun Light, etc. Gold is the most noble of metals (more FM tosh). The new chosen colour for English Masonry (instead of their black tie image) is light/dark Blue and Gold. Scotland's Masons still wear a Black Ties to their meetings. As above, do your own investigations and let SF know your findings. We will pass this info on to everyone, victim or not. You should do the same.Chas

Although we know that the higher levels of Freemasonry practice witchcraft, lower Masons are not knowingly part of this. They are just another tool to be used. The lower levels are definitely all pretend, i.e. pretend friendships (esp. with us profane), pretend brothers, sisters, grannies, etc. There is no doubt about it that Masons are definitely in it for the money. All at the expense of anything good. Freemasons are "SCABS" in the true sense of the word. They do not care about the damage and consequences of their actions. They ONLY breathe Freemasonry, nothing else. These freaks are no longer human. LP

Masonic Codes: they use a combination of numbers, letters and symbols to communicate and persecute. Here are the most important letters to be found within the Masonic Codes, A, B, D, F, G, L, M, V, W & Y (also GG or MM together) lots more to follow.

Masons like Jesters, Harlequins, Punch n' Judy. They are crazy about grid reference numbers and longitude and latitude references (lots of historical facts and events of these). Masons love to drive any model of Mitsubishi Motors, it has a Masonic symbol and it also tells other Masons that "MM" means Master Mason. They use the same "MM" Masonic Code in their names or their business names or vehicle registrations or children's names (esp. last 35 years approx) for instance Emma, Tommy, Sammy, Jimmy, Gemma, Mickey Mouse, Mike Martin etc, The letters M & A also appears to be a favourite in the Masons pet names. anon

More Masonic Codes; If you know any Masonic families, the whole family will have an "A" in their christian names. The only exception if they already have an "A" in their surname. The A represents the "All Seeing Eye" and also the same shape as their Compass (The Masonic logo of the Square and Compass). If you don't believe us, how many FM businesses do you know with an important A in it ? Abbey, AA, AOL, Marsh, Carlyle group (search online at U Tube, Guba, Google Video, etc) Have a look at businesses with Blue/Compass or Square. This should wet your whistle. Know your enemy. John T

Masonic Codes; Trees, yes, the names/types of trees are very symbolic to the Masons. Use this in your investigations. We promise you will not be disappointed. Other terms/names/nicknames we are working on Adam, Peggy, Shadow, Hanged man, Take a look at the name Adam; A + D (4th letter of the alphabet, Masons love number 4 as in four sides to a square) then A, then M for Mason and Adam includes the two letters of A & M (no offence to all non-Masonic "Adams") anon

Birds are very prominent in the Masonic Codes. The Owl, Eagle, Peregrine Falcon, Robin, Blackbird (more to follow)

The Masons will also try to get an "L" into their children's names or their vehicle registration. The "L" is the shape of the Mason's Square. They love names that start with L (or contain at least one L) and better with two L's like William, Michelle, Danielle, etc

Look at their christian names for the letters "A and M" in any order or "A and L", Amanda, Alicia, Allistair, Mandy, Lana, etc. The same with vehicle registrations and business names. We've been told that the letter "B" is Masonic, if you split the "B" up, it looks like 1-3, i.e. number 13 very symbolic to FMs. "B" also represents Blue, Blazing Star, Baal, Brethren and Rabbie Burns. We are still working on other Masonic letters n' codes (please send more guys) anon

The letter "Y" is very symbolic, it represents the Mason's brainwash of Horns, i.e. Goat, Ram or the Horned God. You will see a "Y" on most Mason's vehicle registrations. This is how they recognise each other (as well as other FM numbers/letters). They used to be invisible, not any more. SF is surprised at the anonymous info coming in from ex-Masons who have read the truth online. The future depends on the good guys, help us at SF. To all activists and truthseekers, we love you, keep it up and make us grow. anon

If you want to dig deeper to help your investigation or story, then get online and search for Masonic Abbreviations or Masonic numbers, etc. When searching, try different terms like, Freemasons Codes, Freemasonry, Masons Tactics, Secret societies, Masonic secrets, etc. Search for Mackeys Encyclopedia and use the links as well. Always follow the links to gather more info.

When someone says "You're a star" be very wary. It's a reference to The Order Of The Eastern Star (for female Masons) or they will say "She's a star". This is Masonic code talk. OES is for men and women. Lots more to follow. (Sandra)

Here's another fascinating one. If anyone tells you someone they know is very good at working out codes, be very wary. (+ more )

Know anyone who's been to the USA? Places like Phoenix, Arizona (AKA Valley of the Sun). Also Los Angeles or Las Vegas ? it is something to do with the A's and the L's, i.e. the Square and Compass or vice versa. Lot's more we are working on. Keep your family and friends close to your chest and keep these Masonic enemies even closer. A lot of us victims at SF are friendly with some of these Masonic freaks. We know they are our pretend friends and that they are only close to us to persecute us. We know they are Masons but we let them think they are clever. It's a great way to document them. Can you believe these low level Masons think they are working for MMI5 ? Yes, they think they are on a high level mission to save the country or whatever other claptrap they have been told. Incidentally, MMI5 means "Mickey Mouse Intelligence Five". It's a cracker. You have no idea how thick some people really are, but that's how the elite make money. These dumb Masons actually pay to be a member, how dumb is that ? Billy (not goat)

For society's sake, let's blackball (reject) the Masons. This means expose these freaks for what they are, and ignore them. Don't talk to them as if they were an ordinary person (they're definitely not). This is what they do to their victims, they ostracize you. Let's tell all of their neighbours, friends, colleagues and anyone else about their involvement in this evil criminal network/organisation.
We at SF will back you up or point them towards our website or www.ljpr.info

Here's a cheap brilliant way to set up situations to help your story. Get yourself a cheap Digital Voice Recorder for £25 from Argos. Its called Mikomi and it has an external microphone so that you can clip it to your clothing, hidden around your neck. You can also speak to it just like a diary (now you can document everything esp. when harassed). It records for hours. Check it out. Tim

Fact; Masons are possessed, period. Next time you talk to a suspected Mason, just ask "Are you possessed by the Masons?", they do not like this, watch their body language. Here's another important fact about Mason's human rights. The Masons want to use the human rights laws to protect them from giving us a public register of Masons ? ARE THEY SERIOUS ?, what about the extensive damage they are doing 24/7/365 Do you seriously think this evil cares about human rights? Fact; Freemasonry infects everything it comes into contact with. Checkout www.freemasonrywatch.org for lots more expose on this criminal network. JP

Second Family UK have hit the nail on the head big time. We have sent four revealing articles to every MP and Newspaper (large & small) in the UK. They know about this serious legal crime and the Dodgy Masons doing nothing about it. How can they sit and take a wage ? How come nothing is being done ? The answer is very simple. The Secret Societies have hijacked our Government and Media and nobody cares ????? Not one person has disputed a single word that Second Family has said. This is comprehensive proof that SF have got it 100% right. We have genuine anonymous information that they (big fish) have sown the seeds to bring these crooks down, but not fast enough for us. We still want a meeting with representatives from this criminal charity called Freemasonry. We want to do this with transparency in front of a live independent audience (for the world to see). What is the problem with this request ? We have a wealth of information to bring this monster down. You cannot keep the status quo, it's 100% corrupt and it's way out of control. To all crooked politicians and journalists "Curse the elite and Curse you for doing nothing" You have all knowingly done (for reward) your bit to destroy what could easily be heaven (still can be) for us all. Life is pure shit and much worse to come (FM/CP or not). Incidentally, these Masonic Freaks are doing everything to stop us, that's how possessed they really are.

Second Family UK are a support group for victims of Freemasonry & Common Purpose. www.secondfamily-uk.com We are not a revenge or hatred group, only to peacefully campaign for change. Everyone has the right to reply, please be focused and sensible.
Contact/write to SF at 93 Ashburn Road, Glasgow G62 7PQ or call 0141 560 4743 or mobiles 07834 329 287 or 07799 612 227 (leave details/message and we'll call you back asap) or email voacs@ mac or kim.stirling@ntlworld.com Make sure you get a reply as the Masons will try to stop the truth. Please continue to send info, ideas and suggestions. Join SF, it's absolutely free. This newsletter is brought to you by SF & Joe Stirling, a veteran victim of Freemasonry & Common Purpose. Small donations welcome to help us keep up this important cause. If you do nothing today, the Masons will continue unhindered with their NWO plans.

Thanks for the link to the uk column what a refreshing read it is .. And LOL at the masons comming out the wood work to defend there religion .. We must be doing something right at this forum .. keep up the good work folks.... :D

[eternal_spirit]

Thanks for the link to the uk column what a refreshing read it is .. And LOL at the masons comming out the wood work to defend there religion .. We must be doing something right at this forum .. keep up the good work folks.... :D
.....................

:D

[eternal_spirit]

Sorry, I have missed something what complete system is masonic including the language?

I am glad you know more, so that you can tell me what on earth you are talking about?

................................

The system as in Society. Regardless of what religion, race, or Nationality, you can become a Mason. So, it's a World wide club that works together, your loyalty primarily lies with each others interests, regardless of whatever other groups, religion etc you belong too. Royalty/Monarchs, Politicians, Local Councils, Military, Police, Bankers, Media, Judicial, Priesthoods/Clergy etc, Education Commities and other groups are awash with Masons many high up in said groups/organizations. All the main groups you need to control the system!

The New Age was the name of a Freemasonic Magazine, put out by the Scottish Rite.

Although, the Theosophist's ( also created and mostly made up of Masons ) had introduced the New Age stuff over a Century ago. They have been pushing this agenda for along time, those at the top the Elite give us our culture, the one's who push this are know as "Culture Creators."

The media and literature is used as a form of programming, known as "predictive programming", to pre-programme the masses for the latest fad, fashion, political POV etc ( ideas, lifestyles and POV ) etc, before it is unleashed upon the Public, so they are allready subconciously accepting of said ideas, so in part have allredy accepted these ideas.

The Hippie era is a good example of this, which was also part of the New Age Agenda. False Hippies and Gurus, bands etc where paid and played to act their part, the Public would then join in with these agents and think it was the "in thing to do", because hey everyone else is doing it and all the cool people in the Movies, media etc are doing it so it must be right.

These kind of tricks have been used since the times of Plato ( Plato's Republic is a book that will explain this ) He coined The phrase "Bread and Circuses", is used to describe entertainment as a form of programming, to direct people POV lifestyle, in other words "control", and make people do what the "Culture Creators", and the Elite want them to do and be. Like religion but an extra tool of control.

Part of what's know as the "Great Work", is to do with building, moulding and shaping Society to their plans and ideas is one sense of this meaning.

Mason's are behind and set up all major Revolutions, be it War, or Cultural Revolutions. The Bolshevik Revolution and the founding of Communism is a prime example.

BTW on Language....it's more to do with how a word is pronounced and sounds than the spelling, for example "Cohen", which is "coin", Cohen means priest and relates to the fact that the Priesthood used coins and set up the monetary system, hence Cohen and usury "Intrest."

EDIT, there maybe different spellings of the word Cohen, which would make the pronunciation slight different.

[darketernal]

And some know much less than they think. ;)

On both sides of the discussion.

[chestnutlodge]

eternal spirit - good points, but our interests do not primarily lie with each mason. It lies with our families. It is not regardless of everything. We swear to maintain the laws of the land and not commit any offences etc.

[thelonious]

Mason's are behind and set up all major Revolutions, be it War, or Cultural Revolutions. The Bolshevik Revolution and the founding of Communism is a prime example.

As usual, I'm mystified concerning some of your ideas.

Bolshevism and Communism? You realize, of course, that the Bolshevik Revolution overthrew a government ran pretty much by Masons? Kerensky was a Mason, a democratic socialist, and the first post-czarist leader of Russia. Most of the officials in the new Kerensky government were also Masons. And they were ran into exile by the Bolsheviks (who outlawed Freemasonry).

These kind of tricks have been used since the times of Plato ( Plato's Republic is a book that will explain this ) He coined The phrase "Bread and Circuses", is used to describe entertainment as a form of programming, to direct people POV lifestyle, in other words "control", and make people do what the "Culture Creators", and the Elite want them to do and be. Like religion but an extra tool of control.

Plato never used the phrase "bread and circuses".

[eternal_spirit]

As usual, I'm mystified concerning some of your ideas.

Bolshevism and Communism? You realize, of course, that the Bolshevik Revolution overthrew a government ran pretty much by Masons? Kerensky was a Mason, a democratic socialist, and the first post-czarist leader of Russia. Most of the officials in the new Kerensky government were also Masons. And they were ran into exile by the Bolsheviks (who outlawed Freemasonry).



Plato never used the phrase "bread and circuses".

......................................
Thing is Masons regardless of being connected via Masonry, who are Politicians etc heads of State and Countries have always had Wars and revolutions with eachother ( I'm baffled you didn't know )
Okay, the mostly Jewish banking Cabal in New York funded the Bolsheviks and sent out I think it was 200 families don't know if any or how many where masons..... from New York to Russia, who where Jews and lead the Revolution.

That's why so many millions of Christians were murdered at least 20 to 30 million. I forgot to add, the Bankers ( Rotchilds etc Elite Masons)will fund both sides in a War, it doesn't matter to the Elite, they'll remove who they want even if it's a lower level Mason, even sacrafice some of their own for a greater cause, like the same Bankers funded Hilter and the Allies, the lower rank and file Jew are nothing to the Elite. They're just cannon fodder/slaves...... same as the lower classess of any Country/Nation.


It's debatable if they outlawed Masonry, because I'm sure you've read the stories about Hitler being involved in Black magick, occult practices and connected to Freemasonry ( Which I used to believe but don't anymore ) Hitler outlawed Freemasonry )

OOps, it was some Greek maybe Socrates, if not Plato.....:confused:

[megafish33]

I don't post there, but ATS has a lot of good conspiracy (and conspiracy debunking) discussions... people shouldn't bitch just because Masons (among others) defend themselves. Most of the time they're demonized using false "facts."

Okay, the mostly Jewish banking Cabal in New York funded the Bolsheviks and sent out I think it was 200 families don't know if any or how many where masons..... from New York to Russia, who where Jews and lead the Revolution.

WTF es? Where do you find gems like this? 200 families? How do you know? Cohen's do not coins/interest BTW. Try again. :rolleyes:

[perry_mason]

Quite right Megafish on the subject of coin/Cohen. Coin or to coin comes from the die that was used to punch out specimens of metal and later coins themselves, thus they were 'coined'. Nothing to do with Cohen.

Hello everyone BTW. ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Quite right Megafish on the subject of coin/Cohen. Coin or to coin comes from the die that was used to punch out specimens of metal and later coins themselves, thus they were 'coined'. Nothing to do with Cohen.

Hello everyone BTW. ;)

.......................

Nice try but no cigar, metal, clay would of been used as tokens before real coins where introduced
Cohen means priest who invented the money system, so too deny a connection is foolish IMO.

Con/conned is realted to coin also, because the whole monetry sytem is a con and the people where conned by the Cohen the Priests. ;) remember pronuciation of the spoken word is more important than the spelling.

[eternal_spirit]

I don't post there, but ATS has a lot of good conspiracy (and conspiracy debunking) discussions... people shouldn't bitch just because Masons (among others) defend themselves. Most of the time they're demonized using false "facts."

Okay, the mostly Jewish banking Cabal in New York funded the Bolsheviks and sent out I think it was 200 families don't know if any or how many where masons..... from New York to Russia, who where Jews and lead the Revolution.

WTF es? Where do you find gems like this? 200 families? How do you know? Cohen's do not coins/interest BTW. Try again. :rolleyes:

.......................

Not sure about the number that's why I said I think, should of used a :confused: Man I'm reading so much and replying to different topics, I need to slow down. I'll post a link if I remeber where I read this info.

[perry_mason]

.......................

Nice try but no cigar, metal, clay would of been used as tokens before real coins where introduced
Cohen means priest who invented the money system, so too deny a connection is foolish IMO.

Con/conned is realted to coin also, because the whole monetry sytem is a con and the people where conned by the Cohen the Priests. ;) remember pronuciation of the spoken word is more important than the spelling.

Cigars would have been used as currency? Wow. ;);).
But seriously, the link you have found between Cohen and coin is coincidence as is conned/coined. Conned is a derivative of a 'confidence trick'. Cohen does mean priest, you're right on that, but coin, as I said comes from the name of die/matrix used to stamp out samples of metal for analysis and later currency. Here is one link as evidence of this theory:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_coined_the_phrase_%27coined_the_phrase%27

You appear to be just finding words that sound the same as Cohen and giving them sinister connotations.

[thelonious]

......................................
Thing is Masons regardless of being connected via Masonry, who are Politicians etc heads of State and Countries have always had Wars and revolutions with eachother ( I'm baffled you didn't know )
Okay, the mostly Jewish banking Cabal in New York funded the Bolsheviks and sent out I think it was 200 families don't know if any or how many where masons..... from New York to Russia, who where Jews and lead the Revolution.

Actually, the Bolsheviks were not funded in that way at all. The Bolshevik Revolution was not an organized event...in fact it was an accident. One of the primary leaders of the Bolsheviks, Leon Trotsky, wrote that "The Revolution caught us sleeping, just like the foolish virgins in the Gospels". In other words, the Revolution just "happened", and took the Bolsheviks themselves by surprise.

A thorough dissection of the events leading to the Bolshevik Revolution is impossible here, as it requires several volumes. Suffice it to say that the October Revolution in Russia in 1917 occured spontaneously, and without warning. Lenin wasn't even in the country at the time, and was planning to broker a Parliamentary deal with Kerensky, the SR's, and the Mensheviks. But when the workers in St. Petersburg called a general strike, Trotsky simply proclaimed the St. Petersburg soviet to be the "highest organ in the state", and things were such a mess that nobody bothered to challenge him on it. Even during the ensuing civil war, the Bolsheviks were opposed primarily by former Czarist soldiers, who had no loyality to Kerensky and the SR's.

That's why so many millions of Christians were murdered at least 20 to 30 million.

Christians weren't murdered just because they were Christians. And it is also important to note that Stalin encouraged anti-Jewish pogroms, and persecuted the Jews much more severely than the Christians. Most of the deaths in Soviet Russia from 1917 until 1924 were caused by famine and the civil war. Very few ordinary peole were singled out for execution. That changed after 1924, when Stalin consolidated his own power following Lenin's death, and operated under a system of state terror.


It's debatable if they outlawed Masonry

It's not debatable that Masonry was banned, that much was written into Soviet law, and was not officially repealed until 1991. However, Stalin was the only Soviet leader to actively enforce that law under dire criminal penalties.


because I'm sure you've read the stories about Hitler being involved in Black magick, occult practices and connected to Freemasonry ( Which I used to believe but don't anymore ) Hitler outlawed Freemasonry )



Hitler had studied Freemasonry, but considered it a Jewish influence, due to its Old Testament symbolism and use of the Kabalah. While Hitler himself was never a member of any occult sect, he was profoundly influenced and mentored by people who had belonged to the Thule Society, and anti-thesis of Freemasonry that taught white supremacy and various bastardized forms of Theosophy along with twisting the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche.

[eternal_spirit]

Actually, the Bolsheviks were not funded in that way at all. The Bolshevik Revolution was not an organized event...in fact it was an accident. One of the primary leaders of the Bolsheviks, Leon Trotsky, wrote that "The Revolution caught us sleeping, just like the foolish virgins in the Gospels". In other words, the Revolution just "happened", and took the Bolsheviks themselves by surprise.

A thorough dissection of the events leading to the Bolshevik Revolution is impossible here, as it requires several volumes. Suffice it to say that the October Revolution in Russia in 1917 occured spontaneously, and without warning. Lenin wasn't even in the country at the time, and was planning to broker a Parliamentary deal with Kerensky, the SR's, and the Mensheviks. But when the workers in St. Petersburg called a general strike, Trotsky simply proclaimed the St. Petersburg soviet to be the "highest organ in the state", and things were such a mess that nobody bothered to challenge him on it. Even during the ensuing civil war, the Bolsheviks were opposed primarily by former Czarist soldiers, who had no loyality to Kerensky and the SR's.



Christians weren't murdered just because they were Christians. And it is also important to note that Stalin encouraged anti-Jewish pogroms, and persecuted the Jews much more severely than the Christians. Most of the deaths in Soviet Russia from 1917 until 1924 were caused by famine and the civil war. Very few ordinary peole were singled out for execution. That changed after 1924, when Stalin consolidated his own power following Lenin's death, and operated under a system of state terror.



It's not debatable that Masonry was banned, that much was written into Soviet law, and was not officially repealed until 1991. However, Stalin was the only Soviet leader to actively enforce that law under dire criminal penalties.




Hitler had studied Freemasonry, but considered it a Jewish influence, due to its Old Testament symbolism and use of the Kabalah. While Hitler himself was never a member of any occult sect, he was profoundly influenced and mentored by people who had belonged to the Thule Society, and anti-thesis of Freemasonry that taught white supremacy and various bastardized forms of Theosophy along with twisting the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche.



.......................................

I diagree, Revolutions don't just happen,it's not logical..... it takes years of planning by the Elite. The can change a Countries society and indoctrinate the people in a handfull of years by War, methods other than Wars and Revolutions could take generations.
I know about the Famine and that was also engineered.


You're spreading myths and lies same as the so called Irish potato famine ( the lie they taught us at school courtesy of the Masonic/education/indoctrination system of LIES same as the Holocaust they teach that but don't mention the Russian Gulags where many millions more Christians died )

It wasn't a blight of potatos that caused the Irish famine myth
It was the English Government and Military imposing sanctions and taking away grain and other staple food products from the Irish. This forced many starving people to go to America. Around this time an Irish man would be thrown in jail for hunting rabbits, then sent to America, because the Elite they needed slaves to colonize.

s Britain's cover-up of its 1845-1850 holocaust in Ireland the most successful Big Lie in all of history?

The cover-up is accomplished by the same British terrorism and bribery that perpetrated the genocide. Consider: why does Irish President Mary Robinson call it "Ireland's greatest natural 1 disaster" while she conceals the British army's role? Potato blight, "phytophthora infestans", did spread from America to Europe in 1844, to England and then Ireland in 1845 but it didn't cause famine anywhere.

(( Ireland did not starve for potatoes; it starved for food.))

read more here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12588&highlight=irish+famine










The Role of the Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution and the Genocidal Killing of 65,000,000 Christians by the Jewish Leaders in the USSR (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Jewish%20Role.html)
Jewish Bolsheviks & Their Roles Listed in Let My People Go, Empirical Publications, 1976. (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Bolsheviks.html)
Jews Led Red Revolution - By The Numbers (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-revolution.html)
Jewish Bolsheviks Played Major Role in the USSR, Says www.answer.com (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-jewish-bolsheviks-answer.com.html)
Rabbi Yissocher Frand's Admission of Jewish Communist Connections (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor194710)
Speech in National Geographic Magazine, Dec 1 1906, on Jewish Revolutionary Crimes in Russia (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor16790)
Historical Observations on Red Revolution in USSR as Jewish (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-historians.html)
Winston Churchill's Famous History of Zionists vs. Bolsheviks Carried in Sunday Illustrated Herald on February 8, 1920, page 5 (http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html)
Jews & The Red Revolution (http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr60.htm)
Jews & the Soviet Government (http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr61.htm)
Jews , Their Press, and Others Say Jews Behind Red Revolution (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-moreevidence.html)
First President of Soviet Union, Yakov Sverdlov, a Jew--Article in People's Weekly World (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor22630)
Jews, Communism, and The Job of Killing Off the USSR's Christians (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor19996)
The Vinnitsa Christians Genocide--Committed by the USSR's Jews & Who Controlled the NKVD (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor5760)
Discussion of Jewish Bolshevism as Taking Over Russia in Red Revolution with Names of Jews (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor12931)
Arrested and Enslaved by Jewish Bolsheviks 52 Years Ago, These Christians Still Want to Leave Their Artic Prisons (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor35094)
Jewish Use of Fascist Beating Methods, Torture, and Executions in USSR Prisons (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor179692)
The Jewish Inventions of the Russian Gulags & Their Inhumane Conditions (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor188583)
How Hundreds of Christian [sic. "bourgeousie" Were Lined Up and Shot by the Nazi-Like Jewish Cheka - Red Revolution Materials (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor23296)
Nicholas Utin, a Jew, the First Russian Marist, 1860's to 1870's (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor3061135)
Jewish Founders of the Russian Social-Democratic Movement in 1883 (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor3049198)
Jewish Socialism in 1980-1900 (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor3063205)
History of Jewish Soviet Holocaust of 65,000,000 Indigenous Europeans with Pictures (http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1744)
Ukrainian Famine in the book "Ninth Circle" with pictures published in The Chicago American newspaper during February and March, 1935
Genrik Yagoda, Russian Jewish Christian Killer (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-yagoda.html)
The Prop Masters (http://www.hoffman-info.com/communist.html)
Historical Worksheet on Jewish Influences in the Red Revolution W/USA Banking Connections (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor1218070)
Anti-Semitism USSR Capital Crime by Grateful Communists (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-genocide-USSRchristians-antisemitismcrime.html)
Boston Globe Reports 100,000,000 Killed by Communism (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor276580)
Lutheran Synod/Missouri Reports on 95.5 Million Murdered Christians in USSR by Jews (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor9685)
Genocide by High NKVD Jews in Russia Still Hidden--Eric Margolis, Toronto Sun, 12-13-98 (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor2622229)
Pictures of Dying Ukrainians in The Chicago American, February and March 1935 (http://web.archive.org/web/19961217052019/http://www.sabre.org/UFPWWW_Etc/History/ninth.circle/nc.photos.html)
Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-genocide-USSRchristians-JAC.html)
Jews Blamed for Lithuanian Genocide (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor49969)
Jewish Assassination of Czar Alexander (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor3049198)
Lazar Kaganovich, Soviet Jewish Commissar and Christian Genocidal Killer (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-kaganovich.html)
Trotsky -- Lev Davidovich Bronstein (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-trotsky.htm)
Reuter's Story on Crucifixions, Scalpings, and Beastial Torture of the Christians in USSR (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor245481)
How the Jews Led USSR Communism (http://web.archive.org/web/19991116054255/http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm/comm_1.html)
"Yiddish Culture, Socialist Politics and the Shaping of Immigrant Jewish Identity in America, 1890-1924," Dissertation by Stanford Ph.D. candidate Anthony Michels (http://web.archive.org/web/19990429064721/http://shamash.org/nfjc/jcn/F95-2.htm)
Netherland Ambassadors Report on Jewish Bolsheviks Published by U.S. State Department (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html#anchor8736)
Post USSR Jewish Control Areas (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-CIS.html)
Email to Jew Watch from USSR Victims (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-victim-email.html)
Commemorating the 65,000,000 Dead with European Holocaust Memorial Week, a European Holocaust Museum, and $20 Trillion in Reparations (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-European-holocaust-week.html)
Stalin's Jews (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-stalins-jews.html)
Hitler knew about the Jewish Banking Cabal and it's connections and members who were Freemasons, and how they wanted to control Gemany via the Banking Scam of borrowing and charging high interest rates on loans ( Ursury Old Testament Jewish Pharisees which is what the Christians where oppoesd too )

This would force the Government into higher taxation on the peoples labour/wages, this would in turn give the bankers control over the German economy. Same old trick and con used throughout history throughout the world the parasitic Bankers live off the profits of the people's labour. It's still the same Today!

Hitler had been doing phenomenally well in turning his country around economically ever since he came to power. He did this by breaking with the Jewish international bankers, and trading by barter, thus bartering the surplus of goods Germany had, with the surplus of goods Germany needed that another country had, without debts being incurred on either side.

He, like Abraham Lincoln before him, simply issued what money was needed on the authority of the German Government, which was backed by the productivity of the German labour force, and not the empty promises of Jewish international bankers, who in a country without debt, could not function.

read more here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22964

[thelonious]

.......................................

I diagree, Revolutions don't just happen,it's not logical..... it takes years of planning by the Elite.

I don't agree with your take on it, because revolutions topplethe elite. Revolutions send the elite to the gallows and the guillotine. This is why the elite are conservative instead of revolutionary. Revolution is the elite's number one enemy.

The problem that usually arises though is that after the elite have been sent to the gallows, the revolutionaries become the new elite, and it all becomes a vicious circle.

Your example of the USSR is a good one here. Theoretically, the purpose of communist revolution is to overthrow the wealthy's stranglehold on power, and establish a free, egalitarian society. But the Bolsheviks created a new elite class in the Communist Party that was just as bad an any group of capitalists, and sometimes worse.

Concerning spontaneous revolutions, history shows that these occur pretty frequently. Consider the gladiator revolt under Spartacus, the fact that the French Revolution began with a spontaneous march on Versaille by peasant women, or the failed revolution coming from spontaneous uprisings at Tianeman Square.


Hitler had been doing phenomenally well in turning his country around economically ever since he came to power. He did this by breaking with the Jewish international bankers, and trading by barter, thus bartering the surplus of goods Germany had, with the surplus of goods Germany needed that another country had, without debts being incurred on either side.

He, like Abraham Lincoln before him, simply issued what money was needed on the authority of the German Government, which was backed by the productivity of the German labour force, and not the empty promises of Jewish international bankers, who in a country without debt, could not function.



I can't share your admiration of Adolf Hitler, nor can I see him compared to Abraham Lincoln without rebuttal.

To begin with, Hitler himself was the chosen of the elite. The wealthy capitalist Germans feared socialist revolution, and supported his bid for the Chancellorship. His economic policies were based around the Fascist idea of war economics, and expansive imperialism. And to make it all work, he put forth one of the most brutal police states and authoritarian regimes that could be imagined, rivaled only by the dictatorships of Stalin and Pol Pot in pure evil.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:thelonius

I don't agree with your take on it, because revolutions topplethe elite. Revolutions send the elite to the gallows and the guillotine. This is why the elite are conservative instead of revolutionary. Revolution is the elite's number one enemy.


...................................

Yes, it's true that the Elite have been toppled by the people throughout history, it's a common theme. In more recent times The Elite will invest and migrate to other Countries collapse the economy of the Country they leave... through Banking debts and stock market crashes and buying and selling off shares. Then engineer Revolutions fund both sides and create Wars ( "This is to reduce the population of the lower classes" ) whilst the Uber Elite make or have allready made their escape.

They always fear when the population reaches a high number, because they know they will rebel, that's why they have to reduce the population be it by War, famine, biological methods, viruses, weather modification, by any means possible too, as what they say is too cull the herd to a managable level.

Same old story throughout history slaves and masters. Then they set up the same monatry system Banking scam, once the Country they have migrated to has prospered. This is where Elite Masonry fits in ( They are the builders of the Society and System ) But the old has to be destroyed and a new system rebuilt ) See, the Elite interbreed around the Planet. They believe their souls reincarnate into the same family bloodlines, generation after generation. They don't fear death with this belief.





Quote: thelonius

I can't share your admiration of Adolf Hitler, nor can I see him compared to Abraham Lincoln without rebuttal.

...........................................

Hitler was acting in defense, the German's would of been rounded up and sent to the Russan Gulag death camps otherwise. Note the time scale, the Gulags where around a long time before the World War 2 and went on up until 1958! And the World done nothing to stop this. Thus Communism was born which in reality became another dictatorship, slaves and masters routine.

Point is Germany prospered by barter and didn't need Bank loans. Lincoln wanted to print low intrest "green back money", Government printed for the people, who would prosper as a nation. He also didn't want to incure huge debt to the Banking Cabal.
B'nai B'rith (Hebrew, "Sons of the Covenant") Oldest and largest Jewish service and fraternal organization in America, founded in New York in 1843. This group had connections to the Knights of the Golden Circle a Freemasonic group that assasinated Lincoln.

I think Kennedy was also assasinated one reason was because he wanted to do the same as Lincoln and also expose the secret society networks.


The victors of Wars get's to write history ( HISstory phonetically speaking )

[thelonious]

[QUOTE=eternal_spirit;316054

Hitler was acting in defense[/quote]

Was he acting in defense when he invaded Poland? Or when he bombed London? Or when he signed a treaty of friendship with Stalin? Or when he ordered the execution of old women and children?

Dude, I'm not really into dictators, but I *much* prefer Lenin to Hitler!

[eternal_spirit]

Was he acting in defense when he invaded Poland? Or when he bombed London? Or when he signed a treaty of friendship with Stalin? Or when he ordered the execution of old women and children?

Dude, I'm not really into dictators, but I *much* prefer Lenin to Hitler!

Sure you don't mean Lennon as in John.

Okay, a treaty was signed that took away much land from the Germans before World War2, part of this land was the Danzig Corridor. Germany badly needed to import/export goods through the Danzig Corridor

I m aware there are two different versions of the story. But, the Victor of war get's to write history "HISstory phonetically speaking"

This one I think is not the officla version but it's possibly true.


Foreign press gather at Glinke (near Bromberg) Poland - Ethnic Germans Murdered. - 1939.

WW 2 was started over the Danzig corridor which was part of Germany until the Versailles treaty gave it to Poland.

1919 Versailles Treaty

The post WW 1 Treaty decimated Germany - causing a depression enabling Jews to buy up vast amounts of German industry and left Germans bitter.

International Jewry ,who represented 80% of those attending the Versailles treaty forced Germany to give a portion of their country ( Danzig Corridor ) to Poland.
Edward House was Jewry's lead man a Rothschild employee who previously helped form the Federal Reserve.

1937
Hitler was pleading with Poland to give Germany a 1 mile access to their providence of East Prussia . Both parties were in agreement when in 1939 Poland suddenly broke off all negotiations.

1938
Roosevelt gave Churchill assurances that the USA would be brought into war against Germany.

March 31,1939

Britain and France guarantee Poland's defense (Anglo French Assurance Pact )

They secretly made a pact with Poland to come to their defense if Germany attacked.

Poland threatens war

Emboldened by Roosevelt and Churchill guarantees Rydz Smigly and Ignacy Moscicki , the head of Poland's army and it's president were saber rattling .

Smigly said -- "Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." He threatened to overrun Germany in three days.


The 1939 Danzig Massacres

The Polish Bolsheviks kill 58,000 German Nationals in the Danzig corridor

In the months leading up to the German invasion the Polish Army and independent Bolshevik units had been slaughtering German nationals in the Danzig corridor. Mass killings of thousands of civilian ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) by both civilian and Russian NKVD Jews, who were confident that Poland would quickly defeat Germany. Many apparently expected to take possession of German farms and businesses. An estimated 58,000 German civilians lost their lives in the massacres carried out prior to the 1939 invasion.

Poles had been merrily slaughtering anything or anybody German since at least as early as April 1939, with smaller incidents stretching back to the close of WW I -- you haven't been told that by the Mass Media, or the fact that these atrocities were one of the main causes for the German invasion of Poland.

Germany had protested in writing to the League of Nations literally dozens of times with no results.

Bromberg Bloody Sunday

On one day alone - Polish Jews, under the protection of the Polish Army, attack a small German town and viciously kill 5500 Germans.

On 'Bloody Sunday' 5500 Germans were murdered:

The "Bromberg Bloody Sunday" is perhaps best known. Polish Jews were confident they would win against Germany and went on a rampage of ' Blood Lust ' that was unmatched. Groups of Bolsheviks attacked from Ponz, Lotz and Warsaw approached the town and started killing the farmers on the outskirts. Children were nailed to barns, women were raped and hacked to death with axes men were executed where they stood.

On Bromberg Bloody Sunday, thousands of ethnic Germans were slaughtered like pigs in an alley because the majority "poles" (the "slavic", non-Teutonic types, really Turco-Ugaric, Hunnic, Tartar and Mongoloid residue from the old "Dark Age" invasions) knew they could do so with total impunity.


Who benefits

The 5 ' 6 " Jewish Stalin and Bolsheviks now have their war and British, French, American, Canadian, etc blood will be spilt all over Europe to decimate Germany and open the world to the Jewish swindle called communism.

More... (http://judicial-inc.biz/Broooomberg_pictures.htm)

http://aryanawakening.blogspot.com/2008/01/danzig-ethnic-germans-murdered-by-poles.html

[megafish33]

The victors of Wars get's to write history ( HISstory phonetically speaking )

Sorry to chime in again but... since I know you think Jewish Freemason Lizards or whatever magically invented language....

"History" has nothing to do with 'his and story,' isn't sexist in any way, and it's not "HISstory" because there aren't even two s letters in 'history.' It comes from a bastardized word of another bastardized word-just look it up ES. A certain fellow made his own history book-or rather, an inquiry into the past, while visiting ancient civilizations like Ancient Egypt. This was thousands of years ago, and the particular Egyptian society he visited(among others I'm sure) was already thousands of years old then. It has nothing to do with rewriting anything to make a certain group(s) look good.

[perry_mason]

The 5 ' 6 " Jewish Stalin and Bolsheviks now have their war and British, French, American, Canadian, etc blood will be spilt all over Europe to decimate Germany and open the world to the Jewish swindle called communism.


Since when was Stalin Jewish? And whats his height got to do with anything?

[damagedbrainn]

Point is Germany prospered by barter and didn't need Bank loans. Lincoln wanted to print low intrest "green back money", Government printed for the people, who would prosper as a nation. He also didn't want to incure huge debt to the Banking Cabal.
)

Are you kidding? Germany was deeply in debt, yet Hitler managed to build quite a substantial military force in a relatively short amount of time. I find it a tad hard to believe that he accomplished all that through fucking bartering. Nazi Germany accepted financial support from overseas and used banks all the damn time.....Germany even had its own banking system throughout the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank
http://www.iht.com/articles/1999/02/05/berlin.t.php
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9805/25/nazi.gold/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-urban-f05.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7D8103DF93AA25750C0A9639582 60

As of late, you've really jumped over the line into koo-koo land with this Nazi shit.

[thelonious]

Since when was Stalin Jewish? And whats his height got to do with anything?

He wasn't. He was, in fact, an anti-Semite. During the Stalin dictatorship, practically all Jews were expelled from the Politburo and Supreme Soviet. In Stalin's mind, Jew = Trotskyite.

[perry_mason]

He wasn't. He was, in fact, an anti-Semite. During the Stalin dictatorship, practically all Jews were expelled from the Politburo and Supreme Soviet. In Stalin's mind, Jew = Trotskyite.

That's what I thought. When I read it I thought what a load of rubbish it must be. I remember studying Stalinist Russia and the attrocities committed by Stalin and Beria, The Bloody Dwarf in the purges towards the Jews and anyone else they didn't like the look of.

I was hoping ES might provide some evidence for this strange theory, other than the usual list of anti-semetic websites.

[megafish33]

I was hoping ES might provide some evidence for this strange theory, other than the usual list of anti-semetic websites.

He won't; he can't. It's their usual tactic on this forum... Post the most antisemitic garbage possible, with "facts" so false a 12-year old can disprove-and when proven wrong-he/they will start a hissy fit and spam the thread until a new page is made. Then, whom ever reads it, most likely reading the newest page, will skim the "facts" and say "oh yeah, well, there must be SOME truth there... uhhhh valid points by both sides, carry on guys..." :rolleyes: Oh man, you should have seen some of the old stuff. lol

[secondfamilyuk]

did you know that the Freekmasons have a lot in common with the giant redwoods ? they are both pretty thick.....

www.secondfamily-uk.com are sitting here with mountains of evidence to show the truth about the criminal Freekmasons in front of a live filmed audience. we would prefer a weekly documentary for people to digest and watch the truth.

there is not an ounce of compassion or humanity in any masonic drone. stop this evil from getting to the kids.

we, in turn would like the Freekmasons to scientifically prove that their doctrine is true and that they haven't been conned with gobble de gook..... enough said

lol brian

[eternal_spirit]

He won't; he can't. It's their usual tactic on this forum... Post the most antisemitic garbage possible, with "facts" so false a 12-year old can disprove-and when proven wrong-he/they will start a hissy fit and spam the thread until a new page is made. Then, whom ever reads it, most likely reading the newest page, will skim the "facts" and say "oh yeah, well, there must be SOME truth there... uhhhh valid points by both sides, carry on guys..." :rolleyes: Oh man, you should have seen some of the old stuff. lol

............................

More lies, wouldn't of expected anything other from megajew.


Truth is he and his buddies troll and spam any thread we post and we have much evidence about evil Jewish deeds. they've debunked very little.

Judaism is 90% Talmud, the Talmud is the most racist religious book I've ever known. You mutilate week old babies genitals in the name of your religion. So, don't think you have much empathy or care much for other races. Judaism is sick end of. Jewishness is not a race it's racist religion.

Point you all miss is this Hiltler wanted Freemasons and Jewish Banking Cabal out of Germany, because they had a hold over the Countries economy. And he had realized bartering would work.



You can believe Stalin wasn't a Jew, but there's the other side of the story saying he was so were most of the leaders of the Bolshevik regime. And what's worse is some of the Allied leaders where also Jews.


INTRODUCTION
Holocaust denial is a sentiment that is expressed openly in the Palestinian Authority, even among senior historians.


Holocaust denial:
is a sentiment that is expressed openly in the Palestinian Authority, even among senior historians.
Senior Palestinian historians, Issam Sisalem, and Jirar Al Kidwah, Head of the Public Library and Arafat’s advisor, teach that the story of the Holocaust was a Jewish lie in order to gain world sympathy, which lead to the creation of the State of Israel. [PATV Nov 29, 2000


Religious Propaganda
A religious leader argues that the Jewish leaders were responsible for the murder of the Jews in the Holocaust.
Dr. Muhammam Ibrahim Maadi. [Sept. 21, 2001]

(Two short videos less than two minutes with subtitle a must watch)


http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_HolocaustENG.asxhttp://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_MadiHolocaust.asx

Point you all miss is this Hiltler wanted Freemasons and Jewish Banking Cabal out of Germany, because they had a hold over the Countries economy.

Guess you lot still believe the offical lie HISSTORY * the victor get's to write HISStory.

You can believe Stalin wasn't a Jew, but there's the other side of the story saying he was. I don't know maybe, maybe not.

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

some of the myths debunked

Now, what was the topic again, hmm could it be Masonic Jewish banking cabals funing both sides in a War.

These debts to the bankers cripple Countries economies, then the next generations have to keep paying back the debt and so on.

[chestnutlodge]

did you know that the Freekmasons have a lot in common with the giant redwoods ? they are both pretty thick.....

www.secondfamily-uk.com are sitting here with mountains of evidence to show the truth about the criminal Freekmasons in front of a live filmed audience. we would prefer a weekly documentary for people to digest and watch the truth.

there is not an ounce of compassion or humanity in any masonic drone. stop this evil from getting to the kids.

we, in turn would like the Freekmasons to scientifically prove that their doctrine is true and that they haven't been conned with gobble de gook..... enough said

lol brian

Multiple posting eh, clever. I will do the same.

You are right we do have a lot in common, we are pretty thick... set due to the meal we eat at the meetings. We also have been around like redwoods for hundreds of years and stand tall above the rest.

Where your love show, would love to come and see it, I will bring the popcorn and I love a comedy.

No compassion in any mason, well we give an awful lot to charity for such a group.

What measurable scientific study in a controlled environment would you advocate?

Brian as an aside why do you call yourself, second family? Is it because your first abandoned you? Yes I think you have said enough.

[eternal_spirit]

Also concerning this:
http://img.youtube.com/vi/t3uS51_6PTg/default.jpg
YouTube - The Other Israel (4/7): Russia and Socialism (http://www.youtube.com/v/t3uS51_6PTg) Close (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=310497&highlight=jewish+leaders+world#)
2You need to upgrade your Flash Player2



And it is precisely the Jewish media that has kept quiet about this historical fact, that Bolshevik Revolution was 80% Jewish led, and funded by Jewish bankers.

And because of the Jewish media we hear so much about Auschwitz, and the soap and the lampshades, and the fires shooting out of the chimneys [impossible] and the geysirs of blood, etc. ; and so little about the millions of victims of the Jewish bolshevik butchers, such as Lazar Kaganovich.

(Btw, there was no holocaust (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481).)

[eternal_spirit]

Jewish encyclopedias

Jewish Encyclopedia

Karl Marx, the founder of the communism, was a Jew. And as Jewish Encyclopedia describes, Jews have been prominent in the modern socialist movement, and the teachings of Marx had a ”Talmudic Bent”:
”Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception.
[...]
The spread of the socialistic faith among the German colony at Paris was therefore bound to convert Jew and Gentile alike. Two of those early Jewish converts, Karl Marx and Ferdinand Lassalle, were to become commanding figures in the history of socialism: one as the father of scientific socialism, the other as the founder of the German Socialist party. Marx, the son of a Jewish lawyer of Treves, numbered among his ancestors many famous rabbis. The chapters on the theory of value in his principal work, "Das Kapital," suggest by their subtle analysis an inherited Talmudical bent, though his own education was uninfluenced by Jewish studies, the family having been converted to the Lutheran Church during his early childhood.
[...]
While in Germany socialism has attracted individual Jews, in Russia it has become a movement of the Jewish masses. ”
(Jewish Encyclopedia, 1905, article: 'Socialism', p. 418-419.)


Encyclopedia Judaica

”The Communist movement and ideology played an important part in Jewish life, particularly in the 1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II. [...] Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet Regime. [...] The great attraction of Communism among Russian, and later also, Western Jewry, emerged only with the establishment of the Soviet Regime in Russia. […] Many Jews the worldJewishJewish conspiracy.”
(Encyclopedia Judaica, p.791-792.)

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_2.jpg

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_3.jpg

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_6.jpg

On page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica, this Jewish reference book then goes to list the Jews prominent in the upper command of the Russian Communist party: these included Maxim *Litvinov (Wallasch), M. Liadov (Mandelshtam), Grigori Shklovsky, A. Stolz, S. Gusev (Drabkin), Grigori *Zinoniev (Radomyslsky), Lev *Kamenev, (Rosenfeld), Rozaliya *Zemliachka (Zulkind), Helena Rozmirovich, Yemeli *Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), Serafima Gopner, G. Sokolnikov, L. *Plutnitsky, Jacob *Sverdlov, M. Vladimirov, P. Zalutsky, A. Lozovsky, Y. Yaklovlev (Epstein), Lazar *Kaganovich D. Shvartsman, and Simon *Dimanstein. [...] *Trotsky, M. Uritsky, M. Volodarsky, J. Steklov, Adolf Joffe, David Riazanov (Goldendach), Yuri *Larin, and Karl *Radek (Sobelsohn).
(Below: page 794 of the Encyclopedia Judaica).

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_7.jpg

The organizer of the Revolution was Trotsky, who prepared a special committee to plan and prepare the coup which brought the Communists to power. according tot he Encyclopedia Judaica, this committee, called the Military Revolutionary Committee,, had five members - three of whom were Jews. (below)

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_8.jpg

The Politburo - the supreme governing body of Russia immediately after the Communist Revolution - had four Jews amongst its seven members, according to page 797 of the Jewish

http://www.white-history.com/hwr61i_files/enc_jud_10.jpg



Intelligence reports

The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a world-wide social revolution. — David Francis, American Ambassador
to Russia at the time of the Revolution
(Francis, D. R. (1921). Russia From the American Embassy. New York: C. Scribner’s & Sons. p.214.)

British government report bluntly states that Jews control international Communism:
”There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international
movement controlled by Jews.”
(National Archives, Dept. of State Decimal File, 1910-1929, file 861.00/5067)

US Consul General Summers and US Consul Caldwell, had this to say:
”Jews prominent in a local Soviet government, anti-Jewish feeling growing [...]”
(State Department document 861.00/1757; sent on 2 May 1918, from Moscow by US Consul General Summers.)

The first report, sent from Omsk on 1 March 1919, contains the following paragraph:
"Fifty per cent of Soviet Government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type..."
(State Department document 861.00/2205; sent from Vladivostok on 5 July 1918, by US Consul Caldwell.)
http://www.white-history.com/hwr61iii_files/US_telegram_01a.jpg



"[...] it is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type..."

The second report, dated 9 June 1919, and sent from Vladivostok, said that in 1918 of the:
"384 commissars there were 2 Negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen, 22 Armenians and more than 300 Jews. Of the latter number 264 had come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial Government."
http://www.white-history.com/hwr61iii_files/US_Telegram_02a.jpg
(State Department document 861.00/2205)

Both documents from: U.S. National Archives. (1919). Record Group 120: Records of the American Expeditionary Forces, June 9.


Robert Wilton, a correspondant of the London Times, reveals the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution

A striking feature of Mr. Wilton's examination of the tumultuous 1917-1919 period in Russia is his frank treatment of the critically important Jewish

The following lists of persons in the Bolshevik Party and Soviet administration during this period, which Wilton compiled on the basis of official reports and original documents, underscore the crucial Jewish role in these bodies. These lists first appeared in the rare French edition of Wilton's book, published in Paris in 1921 under the title Les Derniers Jours des Romanoffs. They did not appear in either the American or British editions of The Last Days of the Romanors published in 1920.

"I have done all in my power to act as an impartial chronicler," Wilton wrote in his foreword to Les Derniers Jours des Romanoffs. "In order not to leave myself open to any accusation of prejudice, I am giving the list of the members of the Central Committee, of the Extraordinary Commission [Cheka or secret police], and of the Council of Commissars functioning at the time of the assassination of the Imperial family.

"The 62 members of the [Central] Committee were composed of five Russians, one Ukrainian, six Letts [Latvians], two Germans, one Czech, two Armenians, three Georgians, one Karaim [Karaite] (a Jewish sect), and 41 Jews.

"The Extraordinary Commission [Cheka or Vecheka] of Moscow was composed of 36 members, including one German, one Pole, one Armenian, two Russians, eight Latvians, and 23 Jews.

"The Council of the People's Commissars [the Soviet .government] numbered two Armenians, three Russians, and 17 Jews.

"Ac.cording to data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik state, including the above-mentioned, in 1918-1919 there were: 17 Russians, two Ukrainians, eleven Armenians, 35 Letts [Latvians], 15 Germans, one Hungarian, ten Georgians, three Poles, three Finns, one Czech, one Karaim, and 457 Jews."

"If the reader is astonished to find the Jewish

Effective governmental power, Wilton continued (on pages 136-138 of the same edition) is in the Central Committee of the Bolshevik party. In 1918, he reported, this body had twelve members, of whom nine were of Jewish origin, and three were of Russian ancestry. The nine Jews were: Bronstein (Trotsky), Apfelbaum (Zinoviev), Lurie (Larine), Uritsky, Volodarski, Rosenfeld (Kamenev), Smidovich, Sverdlov (Yankel), and Nakhamkes (Steklov). The three Russians were: Ulyanov (Lenin), Krylenko, and Lunacharsky.

"The other Russian Socialist parties are similar in composition," Wilton went on. "Their Central Committees are made up as follows:"

Mensheviks (Social Democrats): Eleven members, all of whom are Jewish.

Communists of the People: Six members, of whom five are Jews and one is a Russian.

Social Revolutionaries (Right Wing): Fifteen members, of whom 13 are Jews and two are Russians (Kerenski, who may be of Jewish origin, and Tchaikovski).

Social Revolutionaries (Left Wing): Twelve members, of whom ten are Jews and two are Russians.

Committee of the Anarchists of Moscow: Five members, of whom four are Jews and one is a Russian.

Polish Communist Party: Twelve members, all of whom are Jews, including Sobelson (Radek), Krokhenal (Zagonski), and Schwartz (Goltz).

"These parties," commented Wilton, "in appearance opposed to the Bolsheviks, play the Bolsheviks' game on the sly, more or less, by preventing the Russians from pulling themselves together. Out of 61 individuals at the head of these parties, there are six Russians and 55 Jews. No matter what may be the name adopted, a revolutionary government will be Jewish."

[Although the Bolsheviks permitted these leftist political groups to operate for a time under close supervision and narrow limits, even these pitiful remnants of organized opposition were thoroughly eliminated by the end of the 1921 .]

The Soviet government, or "Council of People's Commissars' (also known as the "Sovnarkom"): Wilton reported that out of these 22 "Sovnarkom" members, there were three Russians, one Georgian, one Armenian, and 17 Jews.


The Central Executive Committee:
Out of 61 members, five were Russians, six were Latvians, one was a German, two were Armenians, one was a Czech, one was an Imeretian, two were Georgians, one was a Karaim, one. was a Ukrainian, and 41 were Jews.


The Extraordinary Commission of Moscow (Cheka) 'the Soviet secret police and predecessor of the GPU, the NKVD and the KGB:
Of these 36 Cheka officials, one was a Pole, one a German, one an Armenian, two were Russians, eight were Latvians, and 23 were Jews.

"Accordingly," Wilton sums up, "there is no reason to be surprised at the preponderant role of Jews in the assassination of the Imperial family. It is rather the opposite that would have been surprising."


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html


Winston Churchill exposed the Jews leading role in the Bolshevik Revolution:

”International Jews
In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. [B]This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrorist Jews
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.”
http://www.white-history.com/hwr61ii_files/church3.jpg


The Funding for the Revolution

There had been a running feud between the Russians and the Jews for centuries and from these conflicts arose “pogroms” to suppress the Jews. This war without borders can be illustrated by the Jewish reaction in the 1880s to the anti-Semitic Russian May Laws. The May Laws of 1882 attempted to restrict Jews from some professions and mandate resettlement of most Jews to their original area of the empire, the Pale of Settlement (a huge area, originally set up in 1772, encompassing an area about half the size of Western Europe, extending from the Crimea to the Baltic Sea, to which the Jews had been restricted).

In retaliation, Jewish international financiers did their best to destroy the Russian economy. Encyclopaedia Britannica describes what happened:
”The Russian May Laws were the most conspicuous legislative monument achieved by modern Anti-Semitism.... Their immediate result was a ruinous commercial depression which was felt all over the empire and which profoundly affected the national credit. The Russian minister was at his wits end for money. Negotiations for a large loan were entered upon with the house of Rothschild and a preliminary contract was signed, when...the finance minister was informed that unless the persecutions of the Jews were stopped the great banking house would be compelled to withdraw from the operation....”
(Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1947). Vol. 2. p.76.)

In response to the economic and other pressures put upon Russia, the Czar issued an edict on September 3, 1882. In it he stated:
”For some time the government has given its attention to the Jews and to their relations to the rest of the inhabitants of the empire, with a view of ascertaining the sad condition of the Christian inhabitants brought about by the conduct of Jews in business matters.... With few exceptions, they have as a body devoted their attention, not to enriching or benefiting the country, but to defrauding by their wiles its inhabitants, and particularly its poor inhabitants. This conduct of theirs has called forth protests on the part of the people,… thought it a matter of urgency and justice to adopt stringent measures in order to put an end to the oppression practiced by the Jews on the inhabitants, and to free the country from their malpractices, which were, as is known, the cause of the agitations.”
(Latimer, E.W. (1895). Russia and Turkey in the 19th Century. A. C. McLury & Co. p. 332.)

So, Jews had ample reason to attempt to overturn the Czarist government of Russia, and there is direct evidence they did just that. The JewishJewishworld as head of the huge banking house of Kuhn, Loeb & Company. In the article it states how the firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Company “floated the large Japanese War Loans of 1904-1905, thus making possible the Japanese victory over Russia.” It also goes on to say:
"Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people. He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia and used his financial influence to keep Russia away from the money market of the UnitedStates."
(Jewish Communal Register of New York City. (1918). p.1018-1019)
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/214.html
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/215.html)

Jacob Schiff actually gave somewhere between $17 million and $24 million to finance the Jewish-Communist revolutionaries in Russia, a sum that would be the equivalent of many hundreds of millions of dollars by today's dollar value. Rabbi Marvin S. Andelman, in his book To Eliminate the Opiate, cites two sources documenting Schiff's financial support of the Communist revolution and ultimate repayment by them:
"Jacob Schiff is credited with giving twenty million dollars to the Bolshevik revolution. A year after his death the Bolsheviks deposited over six hundred million rubles to Schiff's banking firm Kuhn & Loeb."
(New York Journal American (1949). February 3.)
(Andelman, M.S. (1974). To Eliminate the Opiate.)

A Jewish banker Max Warburg was also financing the Jewish bolsheviks:
Warburg is cited as one of the three Jewish
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/exhibits/253.jpg
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/253.html


Lenin too was a Jew

Although the fact of Lenin’s Jewish ancestry was kept quiet for many years, Jewish writers are now taking note of it. David Shub, author of Lenin: A Biography, stated in a letter to the Russian émigré paper Novyi Zhurnal that Lenin's mother was Jewish at least on her father's side and probably so on her mother's side as well.
(Shub, David. (1961). Novyi Zhurnal no. 63;
Shub, D. (1966). Lenin: a Biography. Harmondsworth, Penguin.)

In addition, a French Jewish periodical, Review de Fonds Social Juif, reported that a Soviet novelist, Marietta Shaguinian, was prevented by Soviet censorship from publishing evidence of Lenin's Jewish ancestry.
(Review de Fonds Social Juif. (1970). no. 161.)

A number of Jewish publications in recent years have disclosed Lenin’s Jewish heritage, including the Jewish Chronicle.
(Ben-Shlomo, B. Z. (1991). Reporting on Lenin’s Jewish Roots. Jewish Chronicle. July 26. p.2.)


Jews in the NKVD

Table 2: Proportion of Jews in the upper echelons of the NKVD[46][47]
Nationality...Jul. 10, 34__Oct 1, 36__Mar. 1, 37__Sept. 1, 38__Jul. 1, 39__Jan. 1, 40__Feb. 26, 41
Russians..........31,25%.......30,00%.......31,53% .........56,67%......56,67%......64,53%.........64 ,84%
Jews...............38,54%........39,09%.......37,8 4%.........21,33%.......3,92%........3,49%........ ...5,49%

[...]

[46] Nikita Petrov, “Veränderungstendenzen im Kaderbestand der Organe der sowjetischen Staatssicherheit in der Stalin-Zeit,” Forum für osteuropäische Ideen- und Zeitgeschichte, 5(2) (2001) (www1.kueichstaett.de/ZIMOS/forum/docs/petrow.htm).
[47] Cf. primarily the Jewish author Sonja Margolina, Das Ende der Lügen, Siedler, Berlin 1992; also, much more scientific: Johannes Rogalla von Bieberstein, Jüdischer Bolschewismup. Mythos und Realität, Edition Antaios, Dresden 2002; Alexander Solschenizyn, 200 Jahre zusammen, 2 vols., Herbig, Munich 2003; cf. Wolfgang Strauss, “The End of the Legends,” TR 2(3) (2004), pp. 342-351; historically interesting: Rudolf Kommos, Juden hinter Stalin: Die Vormachtstellung jüdischer Kader in der Sowjetunion auf der Grundlage amtlicher sowjetischer Quellen dargestellt, Nibelungen-Verl., Berlin/Leipzig 1938; reprint: Verlag für ganzheitliche Forschung und Kultur, Viöl, undated; see also Robert Wilton, The Last Days of the Romanovs, George H. Doran, New York 1920 (reprint: Institute for Historical Review, Newport Beach 1993; cf. Mark Weber, “The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia’s Early Soviet Regime,” JHR 14(1) (1994), pp. 4-14). Wilton was correspondent of the London Times at St. Petersburg during the Soviet revolution.
(Lectures on the Holocaust, p. 33-34.)


Antisemitism punishable by death

The Congress Bulletin (Publication of the American Jewish Congress)stated:
”Anti-Semitism was classed as counter-revolution and the severe punishments meted out for acts of Anti-Semitism were the means by which the existing order protected its own safety.”
(The Congress Bulletin. (1940).(New York). American Jewish Congress, January 5;
George Bernard Shaw, quoted in The JewishJewish Telegraphic Agency on Anti-Semitism and in which the Soviet leader said that under the Soviet laws militant Anti-Semitism is punishable by death.";
Joseph Stalin (Note to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency). 12th January 1931, Collected Works, vol. 13.)

The Russian Penal Codes of 1922 and 1927 even went so far as to make Anti-Semitism punishable by death. The book Soviet Russia and the Jews by Gregor Aronson and published by the American Jewish League Against Communism (1949 NY) quotes Stalin remarking on the policy in an interview in 1931 with the Jewish Telegraph Agency:
”…Communists cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of Anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the Soviet Union. Active Anti-Semites are punished by death under law.”
(Gregor Aronson. (1949). Soviet Russia and the Jews. New York: American Jewish League Against Communism.) over therefore regarded the Soviet concept of the solution to the “Jewish question” as an intrinsically positive approach. [...] Communism became widespread in virtually all communities. In some countries Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist parties and in some cases were even instructed by the Communist International to change their Jewish-sounding names and pose as non-Jews, in order not to confirm right wing propaganda that presented Communism an alien, Encyclopedia Judaica (below). role in establishing the Bolshevik regime. hand everywhere in the affair of the assassination of the Russian Imperial family, he must bear in mind the formidable numerical preponderance of Jews in the Soviet administration," Wilton went on to write. see the tables especially. Communal Register of New York City of 1917-1918, edited and published by the community, profiles Jacob Schiff, who at that time was one of the wealthiest men in the bankers Rubenstein, Max Warburg, and Parvus, who maneuvered with the Russian revolutionaries, Zenzinov and Lunacharski. Ambassador Francis noted that “Parvus and Warburg both figure in the Lenin and Trotsky documents.” Guardian ( 1931). said: "I have seen the statement which Stalin gave recently to the

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

[perry_mason]

He won't; he can't. It's their usual tactic on this forum... Post the most antisemitic garbage possible, with "facts" so false a 12-year old can disprove-and when proven wrong-he/they will start a hissy fit and spam the thread until a new page is made. Then, whom ever reads it, most likely reading the newest page, will skim the "facts" and say "oh yeah, well, there must be SOME truth there... uhhhh valid points by both sides, carry on guys..." :rolleyes: Oh man, you should have seen some of the old stuff. lol

You were right.;):D

[eternal_spirit]

World War One

Oil

http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/images/churchill.jpgWinston Churchill


Winston Churchill, a Scottish Rite Freemason, was eventually invested as Knight of the Order of the Garter. He was also a member of the Ancient Order of Druids, created by Wentworth Little, founder of the SRIA.[2 (http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/world_war_one.html#2)]

As executed by the Round Table organizations, the brunt of the Illuminati’s plan for the twentieth century depended significantly on the assistance of the Salafi intriguers, beginning with the destruction of the Ottoman Empire. More important still was the role-played by the puppet-state of Saudi Arabia, which became the sponsor of Salafi terrorism. The Saudis would become an important linchpin in the Illuminati strategy to make the world dependent on Rockefeller-controlled oil, thus not only increasing demand and profits, but enhancing their strangle-hold over the world’s governments and economies.
The primary agent in this agenda was Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was a descendant of the first famous member of the Churchill family, John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough. Churchill’s legal surname was Spencer-Churchill, as he was related to the Spencer family, though, starting with his father, Lord Randolph Churchill, his branch of the family used the name Churchill in his public life. Randolph Churchill’s mother, like his grandfather’s wife, and his great-grandfather’s wife, was a Stewart, also descended from James Douglas. Winston Churchill’s mother was Jennie Jerome, daughter of American Jewish millionaire Leonard Jerome.[1 (http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/world_war_one.html#1)]


http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/world_war_one.html

[danielson23uk]

Every time this twat posts a thread like this it gets picked up by Google and 'less' worldly wise people could well donate to this con artist. Is that the sort of thing that the DI forum promotes?

[intruder]

and how is the Forum "promoting" anything, think of it as a roundtable. It certainly beats going out of one's way to publish books that are "complete rubbish" ala Knight and Lomas, with deception a forethought.

[intruder]

Every time this twat posts a thread like this it gets picked up by Google and 'less' worldly wise people could well donate to this con artist. Is that the sort of thing that the DI forum promotes?

you don't like twats? using female anatomy to deride somebody....tisk tisk.

[danielson23uk]

Intruder, you disappoint me. David Icke makes a fortune for spouting libellous bollox (notice I've chosen male anatomy to suit your pallet) about Freemasonry and you have the gall to criticise Knight & Lomas for Romanticising Freemasonry's origins?!! Oh of course it's easy to because they're Freemasons and therefore automatically at fault. I thought we were going to get some constructive debate from you as well.:(

[intruder]

Intruder, you disappoint me. David Icke makes a fortune for spouting libellous bollox (notice I've chosen male anatomy to suit your pallet) about Freemasonry and you have the gall to criticise Knight & Lomas for Romanticising Freemasonry's origins?!! Oh of course it's easy to because they're Freemasons and therefore automatically at fault. I thought we were going to get some constructive debate from you as well.:(.

you call it "romanticizing Freemasonry's origins"....and what would the Shroud of Turin have to do with THAT!?!? Aren't the origins of Freemasonry "shrouded" in mystery, and best LEFT as such? I trust you've spent ample time "foruming" and correcting the falsehoods of your fellow craftsmen.

[eternal_spirit]

wow...you remind me of a whining woman.

.....................

I think most women have got bigger balls metaphorically speaking of course.

[intruder]

.....................

I think most women have got bigger balls metaphorically speaking of course.

I edited my comment out so as to not disappoint mr Mason any further.

[danielson23uk]

you call it "romanticizing Freemasonry's origins"....and what would the Shroud of Turin have to do with THAT!?!? Aren't the origins of Freemasonry "shrouded" in mystery, and best LEFT as such? I trust you've spent ample time "foruming" and correcting the falsehoods of your fellow craftsmen.
If you read the books (which it sounds like you have) you'd know that they rather tenuously linked the Shroud of Turin to Jacques De Molay. That IS romanticising the origins of Freemasonry is it not? You both seem hell bent on arguing with me because I'm a mason rather than because you disagree. If you notice I actually recommended that you read the Rosslyn Hoax by Robert Cooper. You might also want to watch the film The Scottish Key. I'm trying to help you by answering your questions. I can see now that your questions are just loaded to cause disagreement. Let me know when you want to be objective without being offensive.
I think most women have got bigger balls metaphorically speaking of course.
Sticks and stones eternal_spirit. Have some self respect.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:danielson23uk
Sticks and stones eternal_spirit. Have some self respect.

Seems I got the worng end of the stick.

Okay, let's stick too the debate.

[intruder]

If you read the books (which it sounds like you have) you'd know that they rather tenuously linked the Shroud of Turin to Jacques De Molay. That IS romanticising the origins of Freemasonry is it not? You both seem hell bent on arguing with me because I'm a mason rather than because you disagree. If you notice I actually recommended that you read the Rosslyn Hoax by Robert Cooper. You might also want to watch the film The Scottish Key. I'm trying to help you by answering your questions. I can see now that your questions are just loaded to cause disagreement. Let me know when you want to be objective without being offensive.

Sticks and stones eternal_spirit. Have some self respect.

But by arguing that Sequenenre was Hiram Abiff, which predates DeMolay just a little, shows that they were confounding the origins of the craft not once, but twice.
It wasn't enough that the Sequenenre speculations were "bollox', then they tried to convince their audience that the Shroud of Turin was DeMolay. They NEED that connection to Christ don't they?
As one Chapter of The Hiram Key says "Jesus - Man, God, Myth, or Freemason?". Again indicating that the origins of the craft certainly predates the 1700's, or Demolay.

[danielson23uk]

But by arguing that Sequenenre was Hiram Abiff, which predates DeMolay just a little, shows that they were confounding the origins of the craft not once, but twice.
It wasn't enough that the Sequenenre speculations were "bollox', then they tried to convince their audience that the Shroud of Turin was DeMolay. They NEED that connection to Christ don't they?
As one Chapter of The Hiram Key says "Jesus - Man, God, Myth, or Freemason". Again indicating that the origins of the craft certainly predates the 1700's, or Demolay.
I agree 100%. Although I presume when you say 'they' you mean Knight and Lomas. They like to conveniently forget about the hundred or so pages of the Sequenenre theme. Their subsequent theories hold just as little water. So why am I and all other masons getting the sharp end of your tongue because 2 men were fortunate enough to get their books published? Hardly my fault.

[intruder]

I agree 100%. Although I presume when you say 'they' you mean Knight and Lomas. They like to conveniently forget about the hundred or so pages of the Sequenenre theme. Their subsequent theories hold just as little water. So why am I and all other masons getting the sharp end of your tongue because 2 men were fortunate enough to get their books published? Hardly my fault.

neither you nor Freemasonry are receiving the sharp end of my tongue. Knight and Lomas invoked a bit of deeper interest in freemasonry and at the same time repelled me from ever seeking membership. Knight and Lomas did a disservice to the craft, which might have been their intent, I don't know.

[danielson23uk]

neither you nor Freemasonry are receiving the sharp end of my tongue. Knight and Lomas invoked a bit of deeper interest in freemasonry and at the same time repelled me from ever seeking membership. Knight and Lomas did a disservice to the craft, which might have been their intent, I don't know.
That's a shame to hear. Indeed if they have dissuaded anyone to joining Freemasonry then I agree they really have done the craft a disservice. What a shame you read such a back catalogue of fiction to base your opinion on.
Having said that, why would you form an opinion based on what you now know to be fiction? If you disagree with the tenets of works of fiction that you know to be false, does that not mean that you agree with the tenets of the facts?

[intruder]

That's a shame to hear. Indeed if they have dissuaded anyone to joining Freemasonry then I agree they really have done the craft a disservice. What a shame you read such a back catalogue of fiction to base your opinion on.
Having said that, why would you form an opinion based on what you now know to be fiction? If you disagree with the tenets of works of fiction that you know to be false, does that not mean that you agree with the tenets of the facts?

Manly P Hall's work also barred me from seeking admission.

[intruder]

That's a shame to hear. Indeed if they have dissuaded anyone to joining Freemasonry then I agree they really have done the craft a disservice. What a shame you read such a back catalogue of fiction to base your opinion on.
Having said that, why would you form an opinion based on what you now know to be fiction? If you disagree with the tenets of works of fiction that you know to be false, does that not mean that you agree with the tenets of the facts?

their books were not sold as fiction. they were trying to present a factual thesis, with deception a forethought.

[danielson23uk]

their books were not sold as fiction. they were trying to present a factual thesis, with deception a forethought.
You keep returning to the deception thing. I think they (or their publishing company) would tell you anything to sell you their books. As a mason reading their books I get the impression that they are very proud of their membership and to that end I don't believe they deliberately attempted to turn people away from Freemasonry. You're right though, they are sold as fact and to that end they are deceiving the general public.
I've never read any Manly P Hall so I can't comment but I promise I shall as soon as I finish Ranulph Fiennes Autobiography (which is totally gripping btw).
Do you feel as strongly about some of David Icke's conclusions that he considers fact? Can you be certain that Manly P Hall hasn't 'tweaked' his findings to sell books? I seem to remember Dan Brown promising that his Da Vinci Code was entirely factual before being highlighted for the charlatan he is. That's publishing Intruder.

[element]

The whole dot-connecting thing I've read in Icke's books is nothing to be scared of really. Esotoric knowledge came throughout generations in different hands, in different cultures. Through bad hands and good hands. There isn't a thing called ''hidden'' knowledge. You can look for truth yourself, it's all available.

Íf there really are these so called badass guys that wanted to enslave us and keep secrets away, then tell me why we are more healthy then hundred years ago? According to many, we can't drink and eat much anymore, cause it's all poisoned. I think a person from 1850 would love to trade times with us.

If such bad dudes existed, they knew they would be in trouble because of karma.

[mike martin]

Manly P Hall's work also barred me from seeking admission.

Now that really is a shame! As i've explained on several other topics Manly P Hall started writing books in the 1920s, and wrote "the Lost Keys of Freemasonry" in 1923, unfortunately what most Anti-masons (who use him as a source) don't seem to know is that he didn't actually join the Masons until 1954.

He wrote about Freemasonry not as a Mason but as a Theosophist and he thought they were the same thing until he actually joined. After he joined he added this to the preface of later editions of his books:

"At the time I wrote this slender volume, I had just passed my twenty-first birthday, and my only contact with Freemasonry was through a few books commonly available to the public."


Mike

[mike martin]

their books were not sold as fiction. they were trying to present a factual thesis, with deception a forethought.

Sounds rather familiar:rolleyes:

I enjoyed their books but know enough about Freemasonry to recognise that they are flawed theories, much like John J Robinson's "Born in Blood" which was a huge hit with US Masons. It's worth noting that their partnership has gone as Lomas started getting more and more out there with his later work.

Mike

[danielson23uk]

Sounds rather familiar:rolleyes:

Now that really is a shame! As i've explained on several other topics Manly P Hall started writing books in the 1920s, and wrote "the Lost Keys of Freemasonry" in 1923, unfortunately what most Anti-masons (who use him as a source) don't seem to know is that he didn't actually join the Masons until 1954.

He wrote about Freemasonry not as a Mason but as a Theosophist and he thought they were the same thing until he actually joined. After he joined he added this to the preface of later editions of his books:

"At the time I wrote this slender volume, I had just passed my twenty-first birthday, and my only contact with Freemasonry was through a few books commonly available to the public."

Thanks for that Mike. He's new to me although I've Googled him quite a bit since Intruder mentioned him. I noticed he got his 33rd Degree in 1973, a mere 19 years after joining and LONG after his Magnum Opus. So as you say he stamped his masonic influence onto a pre-written publications!!!
That sounds like deliberate deception Intruder. The authors and eras are different but the legitimacy remains in question.

[thelonious]

neither you nor Freemasonry are receiving the sharp end of my tongue. Knight and Lomas invoked a bit of deeper interest in freemasonry and at the same time repelled me from ever seeking membership. Knight and Lomas did a disservice to the craft, which might have been their intent, I don't know.

Knight and Lomas aren't taken very seriously by scholars. They write a sort of "pop culture" history.

Manly P Hall's work also barred me from seeking admission.

Hall, unlike Knight and Lomas, is at least interesting. His book "Secret Teachings of All Ages" is mostly folklore, but it has some really great artwork. His "Lost Keys of Freemasonry" is actually pretty good though. He was only 21 when he wrote it, and it has some amazing insights for a man so young.

[thelonious]

Sounds rather familiar:rolleyes:

I enjoyed their books but know enough about Freemasonry to recognise that they are flawed theories, much like John J Robinson's "Born in Blood" which was a huge hit with US Masons. It's worth noting that their partnership has gone as Lomas started getting more and more out there with his later work.

Mike

I heard that one of them (Lomas, I think) resigned from the Masons because he had become an atheist. Anyone else heard that?

[danielson23uk]

I heard that one of them (Lomas, I think) resigned from the Masons because he had become an atheist. Anyone else heard that?
That wouldn't surprise me. They also got a lot of stick from masons at some of their lectures. Lomas has certainly sold out in favour of selling books.

[mike martin]

Hall, unlike Knight and Lomas, is at least interesting. His book "Secret Teachings of All Ages" is mostly folklore, but it has some really great artwork.

However, once again even the title of the book is misleading. When it was first published in 1928 (as my 1938, 6th Edition copy attests) it was actually called "An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosecrucian Symbolical Philosophy" with the tag-line "Being an interpretation of the secret teachings concealed within the rituals, allegories and mysteries of all ages."

Unfortunately, I think with the 1962 reprint, someone changed the title to "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" (as my 1973 copy attests) with the original title becoming a tag on the front pages. This gave a very different impression of the book's contents and authority especially when compared to its original and more honest title.

Mike

[danielson23uk]

However, once again even the title of the book is misleading. When it was first published in 1928 (as my 1938, 6th Edition copy attests) it was actually called "An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosecrucian Symbolical Philosophy" with the tag-line "Being an interpretation of the secret teachings concealed within the rituals, allegories and mysteries of all ages."

Unfortunately, I think with the 1962 reprint, someone changed the title to "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" (as my 1973 copy attests) with the original title becoming a tag on the front pages. This gave a very different impression of the book's contents and authority especially when compared to its original and more honest title.

Mike

Mike, be careful on here. Reasoned rebuke doesn't go down well! LMAO

[intruder]

?

[intruder]

I didn't mean to just thrust this opium vision in here without purpose, but I can't find a particular commentary on it. Not a Masonic commentary in particular, but interesting none the less. Coleridge was close to the Wedgewood bros. The commentary spoke of the sacred river alph as "Aleph" (all life) and Kubla Kahn as a "Kabbala Cohan", as well as many other metaphors, if I find it, I'll post.

[danielson23uk]

So now we're quoting Poets?
I'm sure Coleridge is turning in his grave if the only place his poetry is worth reciting is on here. What's your point Intruder?

[intruder]

as you will be when you're dead, reflecting upon all your posts. and you insult Coleridge as well as all other ghosts. he knows his poetry is being commented on in more places than a site you post on yet disapprove of.

[intruder]

oh right, i forgot....this is an open forum.

[intruder]

there, there, love....all better.

[intruder]

the nerve of me intruding upon a MASONIC THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[intruder]

The Nerve Of Me Intruding Upon A MASONIC THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!1

[intruder]

The Nerve Of Me Intruding Upon A Masonic Thead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[perry_mason]

Worthy of Milton, Blake, Pope and Swift all rolled together those last few posts intruder.

Opium dreams indeed!

[intruder]

how would YOU effectively resolve a C#7 #5 #9? would you treat it as the altered dominant from its parent melodic minor scale, or would you treat it as a tri-tone substitution and resolve it to its tonic?

it's just the opium perry....it has me floating.....twice five miles of fertile ground


my above question is a fair one, you're well versed in geometry and music right?

[intruder]

I was wrong.

[perry_mason]

how would YOU effectively resolve a C#7 #5 #9? would you treat it as the altered dominant from its parent melodic minor scale, or would you treat it as a tri-tone substitution and resolve it to its tonic?

it's just the opium perry....it has me floating.....twice five miles of fertile ground

my above question is a fair one, you're well versed in geometry and music right?

Glad you're having fun Intruder, whoever said you had to leave the house to travel? Anyway, don't have a clue regarding your question, although I recognise a bit of KK in there somewhere.

I can make noises on a guitar but I can't play it and I can draw straight lines but they don't go anywhere.

[intruder]

now don't forget, there's an Fmaj 7 b5 contained within the C#7 #5 #9. so if you lower the tonic of the altered dominant a 1/2 step you'll have the Fmaj7b5 with its 5th in the bass, making it the 4 chord of course from C major and you could effectively move to its 5 and then to one. C#7 #5 #9 COULD make the more mundane 1/2 step jump to its parent D melodic minor.

[intruder]

can you extract the partials from your low E (I'm not at home by the way) and play the harmonic series?

[danielson23uk]

how would YOU effectively resolve a C#7 #5 #9? would you treat it as the altered dominant from its parent melodic minor scale, or would you treat it as a tri-tone substitution and resolve it to its tonic?

it's just the opium perry....it has me floating.....twice five miles of fertile ground


my above question is a fair one, you're well versed in geometry and music right?

Oh well that's it then boys. He's got us banged to rights because we're not musicians we must be devil worshipping members of the Illuminati! I didn't realise it was a pissing contest Intruder. You quote Coleridge in a poor attempt at flexing intellectual muscle and now you think that picking something you can do that we can't is your Magnum Opus. What's next? Images of you touching your tongue with your nose?
Are you drunk Intruder because you're posting like you are. And if I'm honest you're making the anti-masonic argument a difficult one by talking bilge. Now play nicely and we'll be happy to help.

BTW Perry_mason; Milton is my all time favourite! Tops!!!:D:D:D

[intruder]

If you want to have some fun, I'll give you a FREE (with absolutely NO obligation to buy) guitar lesson!!!

got your guitar?

ok, use your low E, it's easier, and play harmonics on the following frets:

harmonic at the 5th fret
and then a harmonic at the 9th fret
harmonic again at the 5th
then a harmonic at the 12th
then a harmonic at the 7th fret ...and we've completed the phrase.

this melody was used in a particular movie directed by Spielberg.

[intruder]

Oh well that's it then boys. He's got us banged to rights because we're not musicians we must be devil worshipping members of the Illuminati! I didn't realise it was a pissing contest Intruder. You quote Coleridge in a poor attempt at flexing intellectual muscle and now you think that picking something you can do that we can't is your Magnum Opus. What's next? Images of you touching your tongue with your nose?
Are you drunk Intruder because you're posting like you are. And if I'm honest you're making the anti-masonic argument a difficult one by talking bilge. Now play nicely and we'll be happy to help.

BTW Perry_mason; Milton is my all time favourite! Tops!!!:D:D:D

with assumptions like that, HOT DAMN!!! I AM HAVING FUN NOW!
You're an absolute SWEETHEART!!

[intruder]

I don't drink by the way. my father was an alcoholic.

[intruder]

anyway, the harmonic melody was from the alien scene in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. They played the aliens partials from the harmonic series, which were allegedly discovered by Pythagoras. The aliens of course answered in kind and eventually turned it into a symphony.

I'm still laughing that you consider a cut and paste of Coleridge as FLEXING INTELLECTUAL MUSCLE!!!:D

c'mon!!! let's have a round of MENERGY!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

[danielson23uk]

Ahhh! I've surprised myself! I can play harmonics on a guitar just as you describe. I just didn't realise it was called what you said. It's the first thing that most people learn after the Smoke On The Water riff.
But to recap, this is a folder designed at addressing the alleged skull duggery of freemasons and such but now you actually have people here that can answer your accusations, you want to try to embarrass us because we can't play guitar. Good plan!!!;) Are you a disinfo agent for UGLE?

[perry_mason]

If you want to have some fun, I'll give you a FREE (with absolutely NO obligation to buy) guitar lesson!!! .

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass.

I'm more of a slap-bass kinda guy. ;)

[danielson23uk]

I'm still laughing that you consider a cut and paste of Coleridge as FLEXING INTELLECTUAL MUSCLE!!!:D

I'm glad you are. You did it, not me.

[mike martin]

the nerve of me intruding upon a MASONIC THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol that cracked me up:D

[perry_mason]

Ahhh! I've surprised myself! I can play harmonics on a guitar just as you describe. I just didn't realise it was called what you said. It's the first thing that most people learn after the Smoke On The Water riff.
Are you a disinfo agent for UGLE?

"Let us have harmony": 1,2... 1,2,3,4:

Duh duh duh, duh duh duh-duh, duh duh duh. du-du-duuh.

"We all came down to Montreux..."

:D:D

[danielson23uk]

No reply. He's obviously finished his Kebab and gone to bed. I hope he's remembered the Alka-Seltzer to combat that hangover.:(

[perry_mason]

No reply. He's obviously finished his Kebab and gone to bed. I hope he's remembered the Alka-Seltzer to combat that hangover.:(

Surely given the musical twist this thread has taken it should be 'no refrain'. :D





Terrible, I know. :p

[intruder]

No reply. He's obviously finished his Kebab and gone to bed. I hope he's remembered the Alka-Seltzer to combat that hangover.:(

not really...I had some work to do. Hangover? those are for teenagers, and that's the last time I ever had one. You?

[intruder]

we have a 6 hr. time difference remember.

[eternal_spirit]

not really...I had some work to do. Hangover? those are for teenagers, and that's the last time I ever had one. You?

......................

They get reduced price drinks at the Lodge.:rolleyes: Or is that another wicked rumor? :D

[eternal_spirit]

Another double speak is when Masons say they are not allowed to discuss politics at the Lodge.

The iriony is that many Masons hold seats in Parliament and on local councils, so they can discuss it there.

[intruder]

Ahhh! I've surprised myself! I can play harmonics on a guitar just as you describe. I just didn't realise it was called what you said. It's the first thing that most people learn after the Smoke On The Water riff.
But to recap, this is a folder designed at addressing the alleged skull duggery of freemasons and such but now you actually have people here that can answer your accusations, you want to try to embarrass us because we can't play guitar. Good plan!!!;) Are you a disinfo agent for UGLE?

disinfo? no! Smoke on the Water is far more rudimentary than articulating harmonics, although I'll concede that it was the first riff that I and about 1,000,000 other aspiring players ever learned.

I don't believe I've accused any one here of skull-buggery or duggery. Bippity-boppity-BOO!!! Ha, deriding Knight and Lomas is one thing, but I've put it behind me now.

[danielson23uk]

They get reduced price drinks at the Lodge.:rolleyes: Or is that another wicked rumor? :D
Many Lodges are held in places like social clubs or dedicated Masonic Halls so the prices may be subsidised. That's no different to being a member of a Working Man's Club or Social club though so what's the problem there? There are other places however where Lodges meet that charge an absolute fortune for drinks. It's actually a common topic amongst masons as to how much the prices of meals and such differs from one place to another. Ours is only £19 at our meeting place for a 3 course meal. But go to the Connaught Rooms in London (next to Freemasons Hall) and it'll be about 38 quid!! The only wicked rumour ES is caused when you decide to just spout these things rather than ask. Have you ever gone to pay for a drink in a pub and been asked if you're a mason before they tell you the price? No, of course not. We pay our way. Like I say some Lodges are fortunate to use subsidised venues and others don't.
Another double speak is when Masons say they are not allowed to discuss politics at the Lodge.
The iriony is that many Masons hold seats in Parliament and on local councils, so they can discuss it there.
That was nearly a question ES so I'll answer it accordingly. The topics of Political and Religious discussion are strictly forbidden IN THE LODGE. That means while the Lodge is open or 'in session' if that term helps. I'm more than capable and authorised to talk to you about both of these topics here or anywhere else outside the Lodge. So members of parliament who are masons are of course allowed to discuss these topics. Just not inside the Lodge. Does that help with what at first appears a paradox?
Please please please ES just ask rather than make accusations because there are answers if you want them.

[chrism]

Ours is only £19 at our meeting place for a 3 course meal. But go to the Connaught Rooms in London (next to Freemasons Hall) and it'll be about 38 quid!!

I have the same experiences - my mother lodge is £13 - £15 for a 3 course, but I know others that are <£7 for a 2 course. The lodge I am joining it works out at about £5 for a 3 course, because the dining fees are included in the lodge membership... every place is different.

Drinks are from £1 per can in my mother lodge, and the other lodge is around 80% of normal pub prices (the lodge owns the building and employ professional bar staff. There are about 30 lodges and chapters meet in the same buildings so they can afford to do so!).

This is not so much subsidised (as that infers someone else is paying) but the profit margins are lowered for masonic nights. I don't think they increase the prices for private functions either (lots of weddings etc in the masonic hall) but am not sure. If they do, then that is their right as the owners of the building!

Chris

[danielson23uk]

This is not so much subsidised (as that infers someone else is paying) but the profit margins are lowered for masonic nights. I don't think they increase the prices for private functions either (lots of weddings etc in the masonic hall) but am not sure. If they do, then that is their right as the owners of the building!

I agree Chris the term subsidised does imply that it's being funded elsewhere. That was obviously not my meaning. Lodges and masonic halls are not out to make profit so naturally, after their expenses and staff are paid for the prices will be lower. It's all very grubby when a Lodge is privilege to such benefits Chrism but somehow that grubbiness just magically drifts away when it's a private function or wedding benefiting hey? So the advice is if you're getting married, get a quote from your local masonic hall. They might well be cheaper.:)

[eternal_spirit]

Another double speak is when Masons say they are not allowed to discuss politics at the Lodge.

The iriony is that many Masons hold seats in Parliament and on local councils, so they can discuss it there.

....................................

IMO it's a tactict used by Masons to detract people's attention from the fact that many Masons do hold positions in Government. Hence why I used the terms double speak and ironic.

[danielson23uk]

IMO it's a tactict used by Masons to detract people's attention from the fact that many Masons do hold positions in Government. Hence why I used the terms double speak and ironic.

But people already know that Masons hold positions in public office like Government and Councils so where's the logic?
The truths ES really is that Politics and Religion are not discussed in open Lodge. Lodge meetings have an agenda just like any other meeting. It's consists of Opening and Closing the Lodge (at the beginning and end respectively obviously) and the ceremony to be conducted. There is a bit for collecting charity and a bit to discuss Lodge matters eg. How is poor old Burt after his hip operation?, The venue has increased its dining fees so the treasurer would give the members a 'notice of motion' that their dining fees will increase. etc etc. You get the idea. No Religion. No Politics.

[eternal_spirit]

Many Lodges are held in places like social clubs or dedicated Masonic Halls so the prices may be subsidised. That's no different to being a member of a Working Man's Club or Social club though so what's the problem there? There are other places however where Lodges meet that charge an absolute fortune for drinks. It's actually a common topic amongst masons as to how much the prices of meals and such differs from one place to another. Ours is only £19 at our meeting place for a 3 course meal. But go to the Connaught Rooms in London (next to Freemasons Hall) and it'll be about 38 quid!! The only wicked rumour ES is caused when you decide to just spout these things rather than ask. Have you ever gone to pay for a drink in a pub and been asked if you're a mason before they tell you the price? No, of course not. We pay our way. Like I say some Lodges are fortunate to use subsidised venues and others don't.

That was nearly a question ES so I'll answer it accordingly. The topics of Political and Religious discussion are strictly forbidden IN THE LODGE. That means while the Lodge is open or 'in session' if that term helps. I'm more than capable and authorised to talk to you about both of these topics here or anywhere else outside the Lodge. So members of parliament who are masons are of course allowed to discuss these topics. Just not inside the Lodge. Does that help with what at first appears a paradox?
Please please please ES just ask rather than make accusations because there are answers if you want them.
..........................

Not a problem for me I rarley drink.
So, yes you do get cut price drinks, and clubs are ideal places for recruiting, networking.... and another place Masons can meet other than the Lodge.

What you save on reduced prices could go towards the higher prices at the other Lodges.

I know I allready said in my post that you replied too... you're not allowed to discuss politics inside the Lodge:rolleyes:

[danielson23uk]

..........................

Not a problem for me I rarley drink.
So, yes you do get cut price drinks, and clubs are ideal places for recruiting, networking.... and another place Masons can meet other than the Lodge.

What you save on reduced prices could go towards the higher prices at the other Lodges.

I know I allready said in my post that you replied too... you're not allowed to discuss politics inside the Lodge:rolleyes:
No ES you miss the point. We don't ALL get cut price drinks. Some Lodge prefer the surroundings of more expensive venues. That's up to them. That's their decision. Why should Lodges who choose inexpensive venues be responsible for assisting those Lodges that want an expensive meal? I'd be upset if I were financing a more expensive Lodge because they want to eat in such places. Likewise, I'd never ask anyone else to fund my social pursuits. Lodge finances are the sole responsibility of that Lodge. Imagine being a member of the British Legion in Cambridge and being told that you need to give more money because the British Legion in Cornwall wants an extension! That would be silly.

[icke and ham]

Getting cheap beer is a good tactic to divert anyones attention lol

Do you mean danielson that the lodge owns the bar so it can charge what it likes? So what ES? i went into a conservastive culb once that had very cheap beer. Did that divert my attention that their are a lot of conservatives in parlament (but not as many as they wuld like) :D

[the guy in pink]

Not a problem for me I rarley drink.
So, yes you do get cut price drinks, :rolleyes:

ES you have stumbled what is a HUGE conspiricy in my lodge.

We have our own bar and so as to simplfy things the treasurer and JW decide that we all pay the same for our drinks . One large note for the whole nites drinks.
Of course the Treasurer and JW are wiskey drinkers, and us beer drinkers are limited by the fact that we have the same size bladders as those that drink the expensive shorts. We get done, no mistake.

[eternal_spirit]

ES you have stumbled what is a HUGE conspiricy in my lodge.

We have our own bar and so as to simplfy things the treasurer and JW decide that we all pay the same for our drinks . One large note for the whole nites drinks.
Of course the Treasurer and JW are wiskey drinkers, and us beer drinkers are limited by the fact that we have the same size bladders as those that drink the expensive shorts. We get done, no mistake.

...................

:D Damn! why didn't I join the Masons when I was a whiskey man many moons ago

[danielson23uk]

:D Damn! why didn't I join the Masons when I was a whiskey man many moons ago

Whoah! There's the 'Devil and the Deep Blue Sea'. Taking up Masonry and Whiskey! Hell in hand cart!:D

[chrism]

Whoah! There's the 'Devil and the Deep Blue Sea'. Taking up Masonry and Whiskey! Hell in hand cart!:D

My new lodge has a great collection of single malts - the DC is a whiskey and whisky man too!

Tobermory, Aberlour, Balvenie (portwood too - bloody marvelous!) among others.

There are non-masonic nights regularly too. Tempted, anyone!?!

Chris

[danielson23uk]

My new lodge has a great collection of single malts - the DC is a whiskey and whisky man too!

Tobermory, Aberlour, Balvenie (portwood too - bloody marvelous!) among others.

There are non-masonic nights regularly too. Tempted, anyone!?!

Chris
LOL. Not without an explosive vest on they're not!:D

[chrism]

LOL. Not without an explosive vest on they're not!:D

Come come - we do have enquiring minds here otherwise we would not be receiving the questions!

I was not thinking about the after lodges - we have one on 1ts May I think for the ladies - but there are a number of social clubs who use our lodge rooms (not the lodge room itself!) inc. rotarian, round tables, some religious groups etc, and there are a number of ticketed socials like charity race nights (non masonic and masonic) that anyone can attend. I guess this is similar around the counrty, and from what I gather the drinks prices are always the same... they should take advantage!

C

[chrism]

We also have a whist drive and poker night on consecutive nights - wonder if we will have anyone at both!

C

[whatsontv]

......................

They get reduced price drinks at the Lodge.:rolleyes: Or is that another wicked rumor? :D

Last Friday I went up to a meeting in London, here is an exact listing (from a receipt) of the prices that I paid for my round:
1 x Jack Daniels £3.30
1 x Fruit Juice £1.40 (small bottle - charged as 'Fruit Juice' whether it was Britvic Orange or Tonic)
1 x Gordons Gin £3.30
1 x Smirnoff £3.30
1 x Fosters £4.00 (pint)
1 x Cola £1.90 (half pint from 'bag in box'!)
All single measures!
At home (Hampshire) my local masonic halls charge about the same as my local working men's club. I'm a member of both.
I certainly don't enjoy paying London prices but enjoyed my day out.
As almost all masonic halls are registered with the local authorities as private members clubs (like WMCs etc.) the prices do tend to be slightly lower than a local pub (except J.D. Wetherspoons!).
Hope this helps.

[chrism]

Last Friday I went up to a meeting in London, here is an exact listing (from a receipt) of the prices that I paid for my round:
1 x Jack Daniels £3.30
1 x Fruit Juice £1.40 (small bottle - charged as 'Fruit Juice' whether it was Britvic Orange or Tonic)
1 x Gordons Gin £3.30
1 x Smirnoff £3.30
1 x Fosters £4.00 (pint)
1 x Cola £1.90 (half pint from 'bag in box'!)
All single measures!



Ouch - quite a round!

Our Ladies Night is usually in a hotel or such like because of the numbers we get, and the prices of the drinks can cause consternation there, but for a lodge that is rather steep!

C

[perry_mason]

I think I'm going to win the competition for cheapest meal and drinks:

£5 for soup, main and desert! Self service mind.

About £1.80 a pint for the usual lagers and bitters.

I think I'd go all faint if I had to pay £4 for a pint!

[chrism]

I think I'm going to win the competition for cheapest meal and drinks:


As my boss is always saying - "A Yorkshireman is like a Scotsman with all the generosity squeeeeeeeezed out of him!":eek:

Nice to see you again Perry - hope you are well!

My new place must be similar, the fees are around £180 per year for 11 meetings including the meals, so the price must be about the same. I think beer is about £170 - £230 depending on brand. Is cheaper elsewhere but I don't mind paying 'cos we have staff (and otherwise it would be ME serving still!)

C

[perry_mason]

Hi Chris

Those prices are for my lodge in Newcastle, a real bargain but you do get what you pay for. When in Yorkshire I try not buy *anything* if I won't get 5 years good use out of it simply on principal. To do otherwise would bring deep shame on my family and good name. ;):D

If it's not a bargain, it's not worth buyin'.

[chrism]

5 years good use

Out of Beer?? 5 minutes maybe - or 5 hours if you consider the 'recycling' to be useful!

Do you get wine with the meal? As I drive to most meetings I don't see the point of providing free wine when I have to pay for the OJ or coke, but it's different everywhere I go.

C

[perry_mason]

Out of Beer?? 5 minutes maybe - or 5 hours if you consider the 'recycling' to be useful!

Do you get wine with the meal? As I drive to most meetings I don't see the point of providing free wine when I have to pay for the OJ or coke, but it's different everywhere I go.

C

LOL, I wish! Just kidding around bro. I'm not that tight! We don't get any wine with the meal but the beer flows for those who don't have any vehicular responsibilities.

[mike martin]

OMG this really is starting to turn into a Masonic Forum.

M

[chrism]

OMG this really is starting to turn into a Masonic Forum.

M

Shame on us.

Could someone please post a vindictive diatribe about masonry so we feel less at home? No evidence required.

Thanks.

Chris.

[meridiansun]

how would YOU effectively resolve a C#7 #5 #9? would you treat it as the altered dominant from its parent melodic minor scale, or would you treat it as a tri-tone substitution and resolve it to its tonic?

it's just the opium perry....it has me floating.....twice five miles of fertile ground


my above question is a fair one, you're well versed in geometry and music right?
Take Gm7 (IIm7 in F) and move it up a minor 3rd you get Bbm6 or Bbm7 the minor IV chord in the key of F. Change the Ab to an A natural and you get a scale that fits Gm7b5,9,11 for your minor II chord. Notice the minor third relationship. Another cosmic epiphany. And the scale is Db Lydian Augmented (Bb melodic minor notice Bb is IV in F). If you pair up Gm7 C7 and Bbm7 Eb7 because of this one and two note differences you get a very close relationship. IIm7 V7 and IVm7 bVII7. Now add the tri-tone substitution of F#7/Gb7 for C7 and do the same for it you get C#m7 F#7 and Em7 A7. Now just look at the dominate 7ths we have.
C7 - Eb7 - Gb7/F#7 - A7 give them all b9ths and call then diminished chords and C#o7 - Eo7 - Go7 - Bbo7 all four dominate 7th are diminished substitutes for each other and they are a minor third apart. This is no accident but another cosmic epiphany. There are only 12 7th chords and they can be organized into 3 different diminished chords Co7, C#o7, and Do7. Each set of four is spelled the same within the set. So the IIm7 V7's are also in the sets. Over time as I noticed this I started playing the exact same melodies for A7 as C7, Eb7, Gb7 and the respective IIm7, IVm6, IIm7b5's. This is worth leveraging.

[intruder]

since when is a IV chord minor in a major key?

[meridiansun]

since when is a IV chord minor in a major key?
Think of the line in "Home on the Range" which goes "where seldom is heard a discouraging word"; a typical harmonization of this line puts the Major IV under the word "discouraging" and then changes it to a minor iv for the word "word." If you're in the key of G, you're moving in this example from C Major to c minor and you can hear that E slide down to E flat in the inner voice; you can even hear the E flat slide down to D in the next line of the song. This sort of barbershop harmony is quite sentimental in effect. Other examples:

# The Beatles - Across The Universe -
# The Beatles - The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill -
# The Beatles - Hold Me Tight -
# The Beatles - I Saw Her Standing There -
# The Beatles - I'm So Tired -
# The Beatles - Julia -
# The Beatles - The Night Before -
# The Beatles - Nowhere Man -
# The Beatles - She loves you -

[meridiansun]

OMG this really is starting to turn into a Masonic Forum.

M

Perhaps we should petition the admin to change its name!

[intruder]

Not that a IV chord CAN'T be minor as it makes for a nice modulation. Ex. In C Major, if I make the IV chord minor, I've introduced the leading tone of C Majors relative minor, A-B-C-D-E-F-G#-A. I'm at work and trying to analyse your post whilst doing three different things.
OF course diminished 7ths repeat themselves in minor thirds, and if you lower any tone within a dim.7th you get a DOM.7th as well. In terms of "epihanies", don't forgot that augmented triads repeat themselves in Major thirds .

[intruder]

Think of the line in "Home on the Range" which goes "where seldom is heard a discouraging word"; a typical harmonization of this line puts the Major IV under the word "discouraging" and then changes it to a minor iv for the word "word." If you're in the key of G, you're moving in this example from C Major to c minor and you can hear that E slide down to E flat in the inner voice; you can even hear the E flat slide down to D in the next line of the song. This sort of barbershop harmony is quite sentimental in effect. Other examples:

# The Beatles - Across The Universe -
# The Beatles - The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill -
# The Beatles - Hold Me Tight -
# The Beatles - I Saw Her Standing There -
# The Beatles - I'm So Tired -
# The Beatles - Julia -
# The Beatles - The Night Before -
# The Beatles - Nowhere Man -
# The Beatles - She loves you -

YES!! but in pure tertian diatonic harmony the IV chord IS major. You've introduced a modulation. See my previous post as to "why" this works.

[intruder]

In regard to my original question about the C#7#5#9, the more mundane approach would be to treat it as the leading chord in D melodic minor, take it to the V (A7) and resolve it to D minor.
I could just as easily take it to C major via lowering the tonic of the C#7#5#9, producing an Fmaj.7b5 and then play a G13 perhaps and home to C.

[meridiansun]

YES!! but in pure tertian diatonic harmony the IV chord IS major. You've introduced a modulation. See my previous post as to "why" this works.

Ah, the old pure tertian diatonic ploy...

Anyway, back to more important topics, we always get wine beer and the odd glass of port at our festive board.

[intruder]

Take Gm7 (IIm7 in F) and move it up a minor 3rd you get Bbm6 or Bbm7 the minor IV chord in the key of F. Change the Ab to an A natural and you get a scale that fits Gm7b5,9,11 for your minor II chord. Notice the minor third relationship. Another cosmic epiphany. And the scale is Db Lydian Augmented (Bb melodic minor notice Bb is IV in F). If you pair up Gm7 C7 and Bbm7 Eb7 because of this one and two note differences you get a very close relationship. IIm7 V7 and IVm7 bVII7. Now add the tri-tone substitution of F#7/Gb7 for C7 and do the same for it you get C#m7 F#7 and Em7 A7. Now just look at the dominate 7ths we have.
C7 - Eb7 - Gb7/F#7 - A7 give them all b9ths and call then diminished chords and C#o7 - Eo7 - Go7 - Bbo7 all four dominate 7th are diminished substitutes for each other and they are a minor third apart. This is no accident but another cosmic epiphany. There are only 12 7th chords and they can be organized into 3 different diminished chords Co7, C#o7, and Do7. Each set of four is spelled the same within the set. So the IIm7 V7's are also in the sets. Over time as I noticed this I started playing the exact same melodies for A7 as C7, Eb7, Gb7 and the respective IIm7, IVm6, IIm7b5's. This is worth leveraging.

Bbm6 or G 1/2 diminshed over Bb does not contain an Ab, it has an A# in it.

It appears that you've been studying Pat Martino.

And sure, I generally substitute 7b9 chords for diminshed 7th's and vice versa.

As in, E7b9 = B, D, F, and G# diminished. E7b9 is most often gravitating towards A minor. In the "gypsy" style, it's common to "rip" through those respective diminshed 7th's ala Django Reinhardt. and each will resolve nicely to A minor.

[danielson23uk]

In regard to my original question about the C#7#5#9, the more mundane approach would be to treat it as the leading chord in D melodic minor, take it to the V (A7) and resolve it to D minor.
I could just as easily take to C major via lowering the tonic of the C#7#5#9, producing an Fmaj.7b5 and then play a G13 perhaps and home to C.
I remembered earlier Intruder (whilst washing up strangely enough) how I learned those harmonics.
Have you ever heard Jeremy by Pearl Jam?

[intruder]

I remembered earlier Intruder (whilst washing up strangely enough) how I learned those harmonics.
Have you ever heard Jeremy by Pearl Jam?


Jeremy? sure. Nice use of harmonics on the bass. Chris Squire from Yes played a piece called "The Fish", in which the melody is played on 12-12-12-12 ascending from the low E and then 7-7-7-7 ascending from the low E as well. The important thing about this is that harmony is not arbitrary. the harmonic series, the "chord of nature", is inherent in vibration. As a lad, I thought that it was all arbitrary and the great composers and such just "agreed" upon one of many possible options for functional harmony.

[danielson23uk]

Jeremy? sure. Nice use of harmonics on the bass. Chris Squire from Yes played a piece called "The Fish", in which the melody is played on 12-12-12-12 ascending from the low E and then 7-7-7-7 ascending from the low E as well. The important thing about this is that harmony is not arbitrary. the harmonic series, the "chord of nature", is inherent in vibration. As a lad, I thought that it was all arbitrary and the great composers and such just "agreed" upon one of many possible options for functional harmony.

Maybe that's why I like them. I can get away with using them without the slightest knowledge what key I'm in!!:D

[intruder]

Maybe that's why I like them. I can get away with using them without the slightest knowledge what key I'm in!!:D

and that's alright! I like harmonics too.

[eternal_spirit]

Jeremy? sure. Nice use of harmonics on the bass. Chris Squire from Yes played a piece called "The Fish", in which the melody is played on 12-12-12-12 ascending from the low E and then 7-7-7-7 ascending from the low E as well. The important thing about this is that harmony is not arbitrary. the harmonic series, the "chord of nature", is inherent in vibration. As a lad, I thought that it was all arbitrary and the great composers and such just "agreed" upon one of many possible options for functional harmony.
.......................
Great bass playing. Nice bit of wah by Howe on the guitar too.
Probably one of the best pieces they played. Pity they didn't do instrumentals. The fish was almost one with a bit of singing.

Taking about Yes of course.

[intruder]

.......................
Great bass playing. Nice bit of wah by Howe on the guitar too.
Probably one of the best pieces they played. Pity they didn't do instrumentals. The fish was almost one with a bit of singing.

Taking about Yes of course.

as I recall,the chorus of "The Fish" was "schindleria praematurus", the worlds lightest fish. It's also Chris Squire's nickname.

[perry_mason]

You cant beat Funkadelic/Parliament for amazing bass.

Danielson, are you a bit of an old grunger?

[danielson23uk]

You cant beat Funkadelic/Parliament for amazing bass.

Danielson, are you a bit of an old grunger?

Less of the old Perry! I love Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder. He's my supreme being!!!!:D

[perry_mason]

Nice! I've never really got into Pearl Jam, although I did like the last album. I'm more of a Soundgarden and Screaming Trees man.

[danielson23uk]

Nice! I've never really got into Pearl Jam, although I did like the last album. I'm more of a Soundgarden and Screaming Trees man.

Chris Cornell's latest one is good.

[perry_mason]

Is that his solo work? The less said about Audioslave the better I think.

[danielson23uk]

Is that his solo work? The less said about Audioslave the better I think.

Yeah, Carry On is the album.

BTW Here's a classic for Intruder. Enjoy!!

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1765234