crossbow vs longbow

[broadsword]

to take out something bout size of a deer at 150yds
could you fire a longbow kneeling or laid down ?

[knightofthegrail]

A longbow has better range, but takes far more skill to shoot (you dont "fire" a bow, that is what you do with guns, cannons and staff ;) ). The crossbow is much easier to learn to use, but is noisier, more cumbersome with a shorter range.

I've used both and much prefer my bow (recurved mongolian bow).

[stickwhistler]

A deer at 150 yards needs a rifle.

A longbow cannot be shot kneeling down, unless it is a very low draw weight e.g. 25lb , and then it would be at an angle, so inaccurate.

A crossbow is easier to learn e.g. 30 minutes instead of several weeks for a bow.

The longest distance an arrow was ever shot was from a crossbow by the late Henry Drake in 1988 at 2,047 yards. (1 mile 287 yards).


If you are hunting there is a trade off re distance and effective kill and noise.

The exomax crossbow is the fastest current recurve crossbow,
shooting at 350 feet per second (225 lb draw weight).

The speed of sound at sea level is 1,126 feet per second.

A deer will hear a bowstring (called jumping the string) and move.
Therefore if you want to shoot anything, you have to get
the range right or the target will not be there when the arrow arrives.

At 150 yards the deer will have heard the bow shoot, and move, well before the arrow could possibly arrive (at 350 fps).

On the other hand if your range was 40 yards, the arrow would arrive in
0.11 second. A deers reaction time is 0.15 second.

A longbow arrow travels at ..... depends of the draw weight of the bow and travel of string i.e. 28 inch draw .... 30 inch draw etc.
If we generously say 200 fps, then your range to kill a deer would be
approx 20 yards without the deer hearing the bow shoot.

You need to do a bit of research before thinking about shooting deer,
especially at 150 yards, even with a large bore rifle!

I have shot recurve at national level (60 points behind Nat. Champ = 4th overall).
Club champion (8 years ago) of a one of the largest clubs in the UK.
I shoot a Mongolian recurve (Grozier bow) at 70 lbs,
and have several crossbows, of which the latest is an Excalibur Exomax.
I also make all my own arrows and strings.
Before they were stolen for a pittance by HMG, I used to shoot small bore
and hand gun at a club - but that was early 1980's. Now S410 Classic Air Arms .22.

[knightofthegrail]

A deer at 150 yards needs a rifle.

Lol, ooops, yes I missed the mention of range :o although in my defence it was half past six this morning. Shooting a deer with a bow at 150 yards is fasttrack to a lot of hunger.

Tangent: I too shoot a grozer recurve :D but only 50lbs.

[jonas parker]

Broadsword, your avatar is extremely offensive to those of us whose fathers fought (and sometimes died) to keep our countries free.

[rydeon]

to take out something bout size of a deer at 150yds
could you fire a longbow kneeling or laid down ?

Yes, if you could actually hit it and it doesn't move.
Deer tend to notice arrows from long distance though from what the hunters in the US have told me.
So realistically it's very unlikely.
Kneeling yes, lying down would be impossible.
Crossbows are easy to learn for beginners but lack power unless you use a compound crossbow (not suitable for survival situations)

[stickwhistler]

Crossbows are easy to learn for beginners but lack power unless you use a compound crossbow (not suitable for survival situations)

Compound crossbows have no more power than recurve crossbows.

They are easier to draw and cock, but the trade off is that they are more susceptible to going wrong, and need servicing with e.g. a bow press.
Drop a compound and it's probably going to need 'adjusting'.
Dry-fire a compound and it disintegrates!

Pop along to http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 and look at the crossbows there,
and the forum is available to put your compound arguments.

I've been shooting bows of all sorts for over 40 years, and got the trophies etc .
In a survival situation, the compound wouldn't last as long as a recurve.
The cams (wheels at the ends) are not ever-lasting.
The compounds cannot be re-strung in the field i.e.
a string breaks and you have to have a bow press in your car or go home early.
A recurve can be unstrung, or have the string replaced in seconds,
even my 225 lb draw Exomax can be restrung in less than 30 seconds without even a cocking aid - try that with a compound!
A Flemish braid string can be made in about 10 minutes without anything
except the string - lets see that done for a compound bow!

Compounds look tacti-cool, but the only advantage is that they are narrower in prod width, so easier to move through e.g. trees.
They might be quieter too, but if the prey doesn't hear the bow,
because it is in range ( see above post ), it won't matter, and string noise dampers are easy to fit anyway.
Also .....
You can make your own recurve crossbow fairly easily.
http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/
Making a compound isn't so straight forward.

Pays yer money - takes yer choice. I made mine, and it's a recurve.

[rydeon]

Compound crossbows have no more power than recurve crossbows.

They are easier to draw and cock, but the trade off is that they are more susceptible to going wrong, and need servicing with e.g. a bow press.
Drop a compound and it's probably going to need 'adjusting'.
Dry-fire a compound and it disintegrates!

Pop along to http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 and look at the crossbows there,
and the forum is available to put your compound arguments.

I've been shooting bows of all sorts for over 40 years, and got the trophies etc .
In a survival situation, the compound wouldn't last as long as a recurve.
The cams (wheels at the ends) are not ever-lasting.
The compounds cannot be re-strung in the field i.e.
a string breaks and you have to have a bow press in your car or go home early.
A recurve can be unstrung, or have the string replaced in seconds,
even my 225 lb draw Exomax can be restrung in less than 30 seconds without even a cocking aid - try that with a compound!
A Flemish braid string can be made in about 10 minutes without anything
except the string - lets see that done for a compound bow!

Compounds look tacti-cool, but the only advantage is that they are narrower in prod width, so easier to move through e.g. trees.
They might be quieter too, but if the prey doesn't hear the bow,
because it is in range ( see above post ), it won't matter, and string noise dampers are easy to fit anyway.
Also .....
You can make your own recurve crossbow fairly easily.
http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/
Making a compound isn't so straight forward.

Pays yer money - takes yer choice. I made mine, and it's a recurve.

That's what I meant, most recurve crossbows that can match a longbow are impossible to cock, hence they need aids via the compound design etc.

The only other way is if someone makes a replica windlass crossbow which has a scary (300 lb) draw-weight behind it. These are the steel prod ones. So far I don't think they are for sale.
They'd be the ones normally used to garrison forts, city walls etc.

[apollo_gnomon]

Broadsword, your avatar is extremely offensive to those of us whose fathers fought (and sometimes died) to keep our countries free.

+1

[rydeon]

Broadsword, your avatar is extremely offensive to those of us whose fathers fought (and sometimes died) to keep our countries free.

At the end of the day it's still an ancient symbol that predates Christianity.
Are we to mind-control people against what our ancients displayed and worshipped now?
I've seen examples of the swastika found all over Asia and Europe. Even in Israel ironically enough!

So is six years of warfare enough to demonise tens of thousands of years I wonder?

[jonas parker]

At the end of the day it's still an ancient symbol that predates Christianity.
Are we to mind-control people against what our ancients displayed and worshipped now?
I've seen examples of the swastika found all over Asia and Europe. Even in Israel ironically enough!

So is six years of warfare enough to demonise tens of thousands of years I wonder?

The "ancients" of ten thousand years ago, of which you speak, didn't have broadswords like the pin on the avatar. That avatar is a picture of a Hitler Youth athletic award, awarded in the late 1930's - early 1940's, hardly "ancient". Considering the deaths of 6,000,000 Jews, and the imprisonment of my wife's uncle in Buchenwald for guiding Jews from one safe house to another (my wife's grandparents hid Jews in the cellar of their farmhouse in Vriesland), I find your defense of the indefensible absurd.

The ultimate masters of mind control were Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. "Google" a few terms like "The Blitz", "The Battle of Stalingrad", and "The Battle of Britain" and you'll find that a hundred thousand years isn't nearly enough time to demonize the Nazi's for what they did to Great Britain, Russia, Poland, Holland, France, and the other countries that they ravaged in six years.

[rydeon]

The "ancients" of ten thousand years ago, of which you speak, didn't have broadswords like the pin on the avatar. That avatar is a picture of a Hitler Youth athletic award, awarded in the late 1930's - early 1940's, hardly "ancient". Considering the deaths of 6,000,000 Jews, and the imprisonment of my wife's uncle in Buchenwald for guiding Jews from one safe house to another (my wife's grandparents hid Jews in the cellar of their farmhouse in Vriesland), I find your defense of the indefensible absurd.

The ultimate masters of mind control were Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. "Google" a few terms like "The Blitz", "The Battle of Stalingrad", and "The Battle of Britain" and you'll find that a hundred thousand years isn't nearly enough time to demonize the Nazi's for what they did to Great Britain, Russia, Poland, Holland, France, and the other countries that they ravaged in six years.
Now you listen to me Mr Parker, I'm not naive nor foolish enough to be blind on such things so don't take me for an idiot.
However your earlier statement seemed very generalist against the swastika itself, if that was not your intention and it was against that specific, exact configuration then I apologuise. :)

[jonas parker]

Now you listen to me Mr Parker, I'm not naive nor foolish enough to be blind on such things so don't take me for an idiot.
However your earlier statement seemed very generalist against the swastika itself, if that was not your intention and it was against that specific, exact configuration then I apologuise. :)

Rydeon, when you have graduated from a good university with a major in military history and a minor in military tactics, served in the military reserve for 20 years, put six children through college (three with masters degrees and one with a doctorate), owned your own successful business, and lived as long as I have, I MAY listen to you. Until you outrank me however, don't presume to give me orders.

You might also learn to spell "apologize"... :p

[entrangermercenary]

rydeon, when you have graduated from a good university with a major in military history and a minor in military tactics, served in the military reserve for 20 years, put six children through college (three with masters degrees and one with a doctorate), owned your own successful business, and lived as long as i have, i may listen to you. Until you outrank me however, don't presume to give me orders.

You might also learn to spell "apologize"... :p

ouch :d

[broadsword]

http://crossbowwarehouse.com/compdetails.php?id=121
i been looking at this one and decided to get it :cool:

[chesire]

pit trap with spikes works 24/7 all year round with minimal maintenance , while you are wasting calories droning around for almost non existent game. I wil be doing something else productive like foraging.

PS look up persistence hunting or running game down on foot till it is exhausted make a "team sport " of it. cause frankly the bad people will hunt in packs and the good people should too )

[tom bombadil]

I dont get it. What does it mean, that avitar?

[tom bombadil]

And yours jonas parker, what does your avitar mean or represent?

[broadsword]

I dont get it. What does it mean, that avitar?

its a butterfly :confused:

[rydeon]

I dont get it. What does it mean, that avitar?

Something that rattled cages and induced 'My name is Jonas Parker' into a gimpish rant that I ignored and haven't read, apart from some rambling about an apology.

Ok, for the last time I wasn't talking about the HY Avatar but the friggin' swastika as a symbol.

No apology as I've nothing to apologuise for.
You Mr Jonas ought to apologuise for acting like that of a misguided-fanatic.

Back on topic, get training and learn longbows, it's better in the long-run... :)

[jonas parker]

And yours jonas parker, what does your avitar mean or represent?

My avatar is the flag of the Republic of Texas, after we won our freedom from Mexico at the Battle of San Jacinto and before we joined the United States. Since Texas was an independent country at the time we joined the United States, our state flag flies at the same height as the US national flag, and our state constitution gives Texas the right of secession.

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS



That the general, great and essential principles of liberty and free government may be recognized and established, we declare:

Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.

Sec. 2. INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

[stickwhistler]

.....The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

But is that with a longbow or crossbow? ;)

[tom bombadil]

My avatar is the flag of the Republic of Texas, after we won our freedom from Mexico at the Battle of San Jacinto and before we joined the United States.......

...Only a Mexican friend of mine is offended by it as it represents a group of people that came to their fort and trashed it, looted and pillaged and killed the owners and held the govenor captive untill he handed it over to them. He is worried that someone is sticking to this war-mongering group and is unaware what it means....

My point is, and I dont have a Mexican friend that I know of :) , what offends one man, might mean something else to another. What one group or another of murdering thugs did to sully the emblem, or not, is in the mind of the beholder.

We all know what the swasticker is and how the Germans have succesfully stolen its good nature and that we have all come to loath it.

Looking at my avitar, apart from the fact that it was pilfered by me :p and has been used for a while now, it shows a man dutifully swinging a woman, after giving her a swift kick to the guts, and is about just ready to let her go into a bush of thorns (she is crying too). Or do we see Tom Bombadil playing with his love, Goldberry?

The avitar says something about the user. It is just their alter-ego in some cases. If you dont like the users avitar then just block-em.

Nuff said.


nelly.

[stickwhistler]

Robin Hood shot this afternoon.

I put a new string on my Exomax crossbow (225 lb recurve), and let it stretch overnight.
Zeroing the sights in, 4th shot from 25 yards.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m43/stickwhistler/DSCF0245.jpg

from this position

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m43/stickwhistler/DSCF0246.jpg

Quite pleased with that TBH. :)

[rydeon]

225 lb crossbows aren't cheap, what's spanning the thing by hand like? Do you use a rope aide?
Nice shootin' :)

[stickwhistler]

225 lb crossbows aren't cheap, what's spanning the thing by hand like?

A strong person can manage the draw without an aid,
but might not manage a second attempt unless you are used to it.
A bit like weight lifting - gets easier as your technique improves etc.

Do you use a rope aide?

Depends.

If one shot to demo the crossbow - just pull the string.
If shooting more than about 4 arrows. I use a rope cocking aid, made from paracord, with home made hooks.
If you cock the crossbow 10 times, at 225 lbs draw weight,
it is like lifting just over a ton 16 inches! (1 ton = 2240 lbs).
Usually, I shoot 3 dozen arrows per session, bow or crossbow,
so I confess the cocking aid is useful - cocking aid makes 225 feel like 112 lbs = 4,032 lbs lifted through 16 inches exercise @225/2 x 36 shots.

Bought cocking aids cost about £15 - mine cost nothing.

The draw is 16" on the Exomax, which is quite long, so being 5'10" it is do-able.
If you were say 5' 8", it may just be a tad too long for your arm/leg length to cock the string,
even though you might be strong enough to pull the string up,
which is something else to consider when buying these things i.e. buy a draw length that you can manage e.g. 14 inches.


Nice shootin' :) Thanks. :D

[tom bombadil]

BINGO! Good shot :)

[tracker]

225 lb crossbows aren't cheap, what's spanning the thing by hand like? Do you use a rope aide?
Nice shootin' :)

Its been a long time since Ive seen you about ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hope things are fine .

My crossbow is only 80bl and its quite a draw when cocking it , and yes it makes a slight noise .
Those things can fire at very long distances , not as much as a bullit I might add but even though I have a cross bow I would love to try out the long bow .

The cross bow is not easy to carry about and can be heavey , I would hunt with it but as a last resort .

Its good to have one though , after all , it can be used for many things .

That , I shall leave to your imagination .

:)

[tom bombadil]

I got a 150lb and it 'folds' into a small tri-pod bag (for a camera). It takes a few mins to put together, but thats ok for walking through a town.