' 300 ' - is it Anti Iranian propaganda ?

[mrguitarbear]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before.

A new film has come out called ' 300 ' ( March 9th ) , which purports to tell the story of the famous last stand of the 300 Spartans under King Leonides at the pass of Thermopylae in 480AD. Basically the 300 warriors held up an army of up to 500,000 Persian warriors led by the Emperor Xerxes for 3 days , allowing the state of Athens to ready its forces and eventually defeat the Persians at the naval battle of Salamis and the land battle of Plataea.

Whereas the film is based on a graphic novel , can it be merely a co-incidence that its being released now , with US government sabre-rattling against Iran ( former Persia ) at its height ? The message is that the USA is the last bastion of Western democracy , the only thing standing in the way of a monstrous Eastern horde threatening to overrun everything good and holy thats in its path : isn't this film an attempt to manipulate public opinion like ' Red Dawn ' , merely a bit subtler ?

The Iranians won't like the depiction of the noble King Xerxes - he appears as a giant bald man clad in chains and with multiple piercings , while the soldier-Immortals appear in silver skull masks , like an ancient version of Tolkien's Orcs. To re-inforce the Lord of the Rings connection still further , the Persians have War Elephants like Tolkien's Mumakil - yet there is no evidence that the Persians used elephants in battle for another 150 years.

In other words : Spartans=USA=Forces of Democracy=Forces of Good while Persians=Iranians=Forces of Evil.

Americans should be aware that this film seems to be a propaganda piece designed to convince them of the veracity for a war against Iran - watch out ! Theres also a video game going to be released , so you can get killing yourself ! :eek:

[rebel ins]

good comparison, this differs much from the official history, propaganda, though I doubt that the average Westerner will wittingly make these connections

[kromagg]

My friend was telling me about Iranians being pissed, I laughed it off. But you do make great points...

I guess I'll (hopefully) find out on Friday.

[intruder]

This just dawned on me....

3 00...is it "double O" orgasm, no-hold barred, illuminati blOOd-lust?

The 15th letter of the alphabet is O, x 2 = 30

yOO dOO the math!!

[rcrist]

I cant wait to see this film. Im sure there will be some sort of manipulation, like there always is. Good observations mate.

[mrguitarbear]

There may be a connection here with a story about US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix :

" In another incident on November 20th (2006) , Islamic clerics, one with ties to Hamas, disrupted a U.S. Airways flight by engaging in loud chanting, praying, and denunciation of U.S. policy in Iraq. The men got up from their assigned seats and sat separately in a pattern associated with the 9/11 attacks - two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear - giving them control of exit routes to the plane. They asked for seat belt extensions even though they were not obese, and placed them on the cabin floor in the aisles. In response to this disruptive and intimidating behavior, the captain, along with airport security, exercised their right to ask the men to leave the flight peacefully. The Imams refused. They were subsequently handcuffed, led off of the plane, and questioned by police. "

Link : Flight 300 (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4859)

This incident on Flight 300 looks like a set-up then , another piece of anti-Muslim propaganda designed to decieve Americans.

[phoenixchilde]

Having seen the movie, and knowing a lot of the history behind the story, I can offer a few tidbits of information.

First, your comparison of Sparta=USA=democracy doesn't quite work. Spartans were ruled by two kings.

The movie was certainly a pro-war movie, but I didn't get any anti-Iranian references out of it. All I really got was the glory of dying for your country.

Historically, the movie was quite accurate. With the exception of the uniforms and Ephialtes being a deformed exile from spartan society. You can pretty much blame all the historical inaccuracies on the modern misconception that weirdness and art are synonyms.

[arch]

Illuminati + 300 = Committee of 300
The Committee of 300 is a secret society of top royalty, politicians, businessmen, economists, military commanders, intellectuals, scientists and religious authorities who work towards the Illuminati plan via another organization, The Round Table. This Arthurian symbolism suggests British influence, dating from the British Empire (which included such figures as Cecil Rhodes, H. G. Wells and the Fabian socialists) . . . which some hoped would provide the basis for a world government. Most people believe the British Empire is long gone, but Coleman suggests the Empire is still very much with us. Its overt power has simply been replaced by covert power, behind the scenes. The Round Table network of the Committee of 300 is made up of organizations like the Council of Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, the Rockefeller Group, the World Trade Organization, the 1001 Club of the Isles, the Club of Rome and the various international intelligence agencies - last, but by no means least, the Royal Institute of International Affairs.

[mrguitarbear]

Remember it was HG Wells who first used the phrase ' The New World Order ' , he published a book under that title in 1940.

[mrguitarbear]

Having seen the movie, and knowing a lot of the history behind the story, I can offer a few tidbits of information.

First, your comparison of Sparta=USA=democracy doesn't quite work. Spartans were ruled by two kings.

The movie was certainly a pro-war movie, but I didn't get any anti-Iranian references out of it. All I really got was the glory of dying for your country.

Historically, the movie was quite accurate. With the exception of the uniforms and Ephialtes being a deformed exile from spartan society. You can pretty much blame all the historical inaccuracies on the modern misconception that weirdness and art are synonyms.

The movie is about a fight between Ancient Greece ( the cradle of ancient democracy and Western values ) and Ancient Persia ( evil warriors from the East , Persia is present-day Iran ) ! Its easy to draw parallels , similarly its easy to compare the Persians to the forces of evil in ' The Lord of the Rings ' and so on.

I see it that the Spartans symbolise the USA standing alone against the Persians ( read : Iranians ) while the rest of the world ( the other Greek states who symbolise Britain , France etc ) dithers about whether to support Uncle Sam or not.

[arch]

Remember it was HG Wells who first used the phrase ' The New World Order ' , he published a book under that title in 1940.
Yeah, I was just reading his works. He wrote 184 books in 67 years. Incredible.

I'm working on realizing his envisioned "World Brain", for intelligent, rational cooperation, as I see it as my mission to wake people up through cooperation. Though, I'm not as positive as he is about the New World Order... Didn't he see the evil forces back then? After writing 184 books on very diverse subjects, you'd think he was aware of the controlling elite. You know, Einstein also favored Zionism. But what would these people say when they saw the massacre of todays world, where Satanist elites have dictators and death squads killing millions of people, where all people are terror suspects, where 'health organizations' are planning to kill 50% of the worlds population, where children are dumbed down etc. etc.....

Didn't they see it? Did they know secrets of human existence? Were they part of the elitists? Or are we just crazy? (I think there is enough evidence to support my beliefs, but every human likes to think he is right - maybe I could be right because I question my beliefs and thus belong to the 1% thinkers on this planet :p)

One of his books is called "The Open Conspiracy (http://www.acts1711.com/open_conspiracy.pdf)". He sees an Utopian world emerging after the conspiracy is done. But the problem is: the New World Order is NOT an OPEN conspiracy and it doesn't look like we are going to live in an Utopian world within a couple of years....

[arch]

The movie is about a fight between Ancient Greece ( the cradle of ancient democracy and Western values ) and Ancient Persia ( evil warriors from the East , Persia is present-day Iran ) ! Its easy to draw parallels , similarly its easy to compare the Persians to the forces of evil in ' The Lord of the Rings ' and so on.In TLOTR, the evil has the All Seeing Eye. In our world, the eye belongs to the Illuminati, which would be the symbol of the USA or Israel. Hm whatever, I think TLOTR is a fictive story. :D

I see it that the Spartans symbolise the USA standing alone against the Persians ( read : Iranians ) while the rest of the world ( the other Greek states who symbolise Britain , France etc ) dithers about whether to support Uncle Sam or not.A Bilderberg investigator/insider told that they have decided to invade France once there's no oil left. Since the US media has conditioned 69% of the Americans (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/06_03_07_perceptions.pdf) to think negatively about France already, this would be easy to accomplish. I have some more details about this which I'll post tomorrow in a new thread.

[phoenixchilde]

If you want to get technical, the persian empire covered all of what is now considered the middle east, including Turkey and Egypt. It is true that at the time of the greco-persian wars, the capital was at Persepolis, which is now in Iran, but the empire was much larger than what it is now.

I think the most important thing about this movie stems from the line;
The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a god-king can bleed.

Isn't that what people like us are talking about? Overthrowing the tyrants that enslave us into poverty and try to force mediocrity on us? Isn't this movie telling the people of the world that we don't have to settle for the oligarcy that controls most of the northern hemisphere? Doesn't it tell us that we can change the world?

[timestop24]

If you want to get technical, the persian empire covered all of what is now considered the middle east, including Turkey and Egypt. It is true that at the time of the greco-persian wars, the capital was at Persepolis, which is now in Iran, but the empire was much larger than what it is now.

I think the most important thing about this movie stems from the line;


Isn't that what people like us are talking about? Overthrowing the tyrants that enslave us into poverty and try to force mediocrity on us? Isn't this movie telling the people of the world that we don't have to settle for the oligarcy that controls most of the northern hemisphere? Doesn't it tell us that we can change the world?

I just find it conspicuous how the movie is promoted while Iran is on the front burner of world wide tension. It cant be more blatant in propaganda value. It builds on getting the masses hysterical and on a better war footing for the coming showdown. You have to ask yourself...who does this movie benefit?

[arch]

The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a god-king can bleed.
Maybe what they mean is Freeman (http://www.whale.to/b/sp/freeman.html)? :o
Otherwise, Freedom = Slavery (http://www.orwelltoday.com/freedom.shtml).

[phoenixchilde]

Maybe what they mean is Freeman (http://www.whale.to/b/sp/freeman.html)? :o
Otherwise, Freedom = Slavery (http://www.orwelltoday.com/freedom.shtml).

If freedom was the same thing as slavery, then none of us would have a reason to be here. If you view the world in such a manner, then you are giving in to the conditioning you're being fed.

[arch]

The freedom of the people who watch "300" does equal slavery.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

I saw that movie last saturday, and honestly. IT WAS BRILLIANT!

The violence wasn't even "brutal" but more "artistic"..

Anyways, when the movie was over, that was the first thing that poped in my head. This is propaganda.

[bigus_dickus]

Anyways, when the movie was over, that was the first thing that poped in my head. This is propaganda.

how is this propaganda? if this is propaganda, then all the films are, even the amateur ones.

[phoenixchilde]

I saw that movie last saturday, and honestly. IT WAS BRILLIANT!

The violence wasn't even "brutal" but more "artistic"..

Anyways, when the movie was over, that was the first thing that poped in my head. This is propaganda.

Beautifully said. Not everything is a conspiracy.

[arch]

If you can control the minds of humanity, you control the films they make. ;)

[phoenixchilde]

The freedom of the people who watch "300" does equal slavery.

If you think that my freedom equals your slavery, then it sounds to me like you don't want to be free. If there's a reason for this thinking, at least say something more than one sentence next time.

[arch]

If you think that my freedom equals your slavery, then it sounds to me like you don't want to be free. If there's a reason for this thinking, at least say something more than one sentence next time.
People like you and me realize that we live in an Orwellian time where slavery is called freedom. Most people who watch 300 do not realize that and thus don't see that "free men" means "slaves" in this quote:

The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a god-king can bleed.

[phoenixchilde]

People like you and me realize that we live in an Orwellian time where slavery is called freedom. Most people who watch 300 do not realize that and thus don't see that "free men" means "slaves" in this quote:

That's a very ignorant comment. It's almost as ignorant as when I was told that people who listen to house music have lower intelligence.

The fact is, I see that in that quote, "free men" doesn't mean "slaves."

[december]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before.

A new film has come out called ' 300 ' ( March 9th ) , which purports to tell the story of the famous last stand of the 300 Spartans under King Leonides at the pass of Thermopylae in 480AD. Basically the 300 warriors held up an army of up to 500,000 Persian warriors led by the Emperor Xerxes for 3 days , allowing the state of Athens to ready its forces and eventually defeat the Persians at the naval battle of Salamis and the land battle of Plataea.

Whereas the film is based on a graphic novel , can it be merely a co-incidence that its being released now , with US government sabre-rattling against Iran ( former Persia ) at its height ? The message is that the USA is the last bastion of Western democracy , the only thing standing in the way of a monstrous Eastern horde threatening to overrun everything good and holy thats in its path : isn't this film an attempt to manipulate public opinion like ' Red Dawn ' , merely a bit subtler ?

The Iranians won't like the depiction of the noble King Xerxes - he appears as a giant bald man clad in chains and with multiple piercings , while the soldier-Immortals appear in silver skull masks , like an ancient version of Tolkien's Orcs. To re-inforce the Lord of the Rings connection still further , the Persians have War Elephants like Tolkien's Mumakil - yet there is no evidence that the Persians used elephants in battle for another 150 years.

In other words : Spartans=USA=Forces of Democracy=Forces of Good while Persians=Iranians=Forces of Evil.

Americans should be aware that this film seems to be a propaganda piece designed to convince them of the veracity for a war against Iran - watch out ! Theres also a video game going to be released , so you can get killing yourself ! :eek:


No I know why Americans are SO STUPID - they "study" history by watching the Hollywood movies. :D

[phoenixchilde]

No I know why Americans are SO STUPID - they "study" history by watching the Hollywood movies. :D

Beautiful dude. Absolutely beautiful.

[mrguitarbear]

Inaccuracies in the movie ' 300 ' - an article from the Osprey Books site ( PDF link ) :

300 Article (http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/specialfeatures/300article.pdf)

[siliconpsychosis]

I watched the film recently and felt that the script included some really dangerous propaganda speeches surrounding freedom, justice, liberty etc. Several times, if I shut my eyes and listened to the rallying cries or speeches, it was like listening to a politician on the eve of a war.
Heres some examples from the film -

- This is where we fight! This is where they die!

- We did what we were trained to do, what we were bred to do, what we were born to do!

- Imagine what horrible fate awaits my enemies when I would gladly kill any of my own men for victory.

- The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a God-King can bleed.

We Spartans have descended from Hercules himself. Taught never to retreat, never to surrender. Taught that death in the battlefield is the greatest glory he could achieve in his life. Spartans: the finest soldiers the world has ever known.


Such messages clearly target people on a subconscious level. By rooting for the films heroes, peoples minds will be programmed to elicit the same response when we hear real politicians making similar speeches. Its a simple, effective ploy to condition people to accept war.

As has already been mentioned, the fighting scenes were filmed in a less gory, but more 'artistic' way. I expect this too was done to subconsciuously program viewers to think that real war isnt so bad after all. In the least it makes us desensitisized to the brutality of war. Potentially it can tell people that war and killing is an artform.

[phoenixchilde]

That's what I don't get about this topic. There are a great many inspirational speeches in that movie, like the ones that you just listed. You guys hear these well written speeches, and you automatically assume that those are made to brainwash you into fighting and dying for the government. These speeches are made to inspire courage and strength. It seems to me like you guys are afraid of courage and strength. Watch that movie again, listen to what they say, and think to yourself, the courage of those men could be used to stand up to our corrupt governments, to bring down the elite, to make the world into a better place. The 300 Spartans were fighting for their freedom against an empire, just like we're doing. Does no one else notice that parallel?

[mrguitarbear]

That's what I don't get about this topic. There are a great many inspirational speeches in that movie, like the ones that you just listed. You guys hear these well written speeches, and you automatically assume that those are made to brainwash you into fighting and dying for the government. These speeches are made to inspire courage and strength. It seems to me like you guys are afraid of courage and strength. Watch that movie again, listen to what they say, and think to yourself, the courage of those men could be used to stand up to our corrupt governments, to bring down the elite, to make the world into a better place. The 300 Spartans were fighting for their freedom against an empire, just like we're doing. Does no one else notice that parallel?

Its the depiction of the Persians as the evil cousins of Tolkien's orcs that gets me , and the parallels between USA=Sparta and Iran=Persia that are annoying. The film is obviously anti-Iranian propaganda - and whereas any piece of propaganda will have its good points , its still propaganda !

[timestop24]

Its the depiction of the Persians as the evil cousins of Tolkien's orcs that gets me , and the parallels between USA=Sparta and Iran=Persia that are annoying. The film is obviously anti-Iranian propaganda - and whereas any piece of propaganda will have its good points , its still propaganda !

Indeed.

[bigjim7]

OK now the truth: it was a fantastic film with lots of artistic license to make it a better film. The only manipulation is in getting you to the box office to go and see it so they can make lots of money. Swords and sandals films are very popular (Gladiator, Troy, LOTR's etc) and always have been (ben hur etc) just enjoy a great fucking film and stop trying to analyse and read in to too much. Supply and demand the film goers get what they want to see nothing more to it.

[bigus_dickus]

parallels, "USA = Sparta"?

wtf? not even close... it's quite the opposite. study some history and you may find out.

[mrguitarbear]

parallels, "USA = Sparta"?

wtf? not even close... it's quite the opposite. study some history and you may find out.

No , only in the context of the film ! See the first post in this thread.

In the film Sparta symbolises the USA , bravely defending Greece ( = the West ) alone from a huge monstrous Eastern horde that looks like it came from Mordor ( = Iran , Islam , etc ).

The heroic , handsome , superb , athletic , sexy good guys look Caucasian and the filthy , goat-shagging , treacherous , spawned-from-the-pit , obviously inbred , ugly bad guys look Arabic. Do you what I did with that sentence there ? Thats propaganda. Something similar happens in the film , but its a bit more subtle !

[mrguitarbear]

OK now the truth: it was a fantastic film with lots of artistic license to make it a better film. The only manipulation is in getting you to the box office to go and see it so they can make lots of money. Swords and sandals films are very popular (Gladiator, Troy, LOTR's etc) and always have been (ben hur etc) just enjoy a great fucking film and stop trying to analyse and read in to too much. Supply and demand the film goers get what they want to see nothing more to it.

Every film has a subtext , every piece of art has a message that it wants to convey. Depicting the Greek-Persian wars in a film when the West is on the brink of war with Iran immediately sets my alarm bells buzzing for a propaganda piece and a slanted message.

It may be a better film for US cinemagoers if the great king Xerxes is depicted as a bald-headed evil giant covered in piercings and chains , but thats not the way the Iranians see it , they see it as disrespectful. Imagine if someone portrayed George Washington or Martin Luther King jr in a similar way !

Similarly look at the way the Soviets were depicted in 80s films such as ' Red Dawn ' or even some of the James Bond films. Vietnam films such as ' Platoon ' depict the ' loss of innocence ' on the US side of the war , but they don't say much about the damage done to the Vietnamese people or their country. The enemies of the US or Britain are often depicted as ' un-people ' , as faceless enemies who are just there to make up the bodycount like Imperial Stormtroopers.

Similarly your comments on supply and demand display a certain naievety , these days companies create a demand and then provide the market ( supply ) to cater for it ! :p

[phoenixchilde]

No , only in the context of the film ! See the first post in this thread.

In the film Sparta symbolises the USA , bravely defending Greece ( = the West ) alone from a huge monstrous Eastern horde that looks like it came from Mordor ( = Iran , Islam , etc ).

The heroic , handsome , superb , athletic , sexy good guys look Caucasian and the filthy , goat-shagging , treacherous , spawned-from-the-pit , obviously inbred , ugly bad guys look Arabic. Do you what I did with that sentence there ? Thats propaganda. Something similar happens in the film , but its a bit more subtle !

I saw what you did there, it's called clutching at straws.

Bigus_dickus, bigjim, you guys are right on. Thank you for restoring my faith in this forum.

[timestop24]

I saw what you did there, it's called clutching at straws.

Bigus_dickus, bigjim, you guys are right on. Thank you for restoring my faith in this forum.

Its sad you can't see blatant propaganda when its staring you right in the face.
:rolleyes:

[timestop24]

That's what I don't get about this topic. There are a great many inspirational speeches in that movie, like the ones that you just listed. You guys hear these well written speeches, and you automatically assume that those are made to brainwash you into fighting and dying for the government. These speeches are made to inspire courage and strength. It seems to me like you guys are afraid of courage and strength. Watch that movie again, listen to what they say, and think to yourself, the courage of those men could be used to stand up to our corrupt governments, to bring down the elite, to make the world into a better place. The 300 Spartans were fighting for their freedom against an empire, just like we're doing. Does no one else notice that parallel?

I doubt they were fighting for their freedom. Maybe Athen's democracy, but not theirs. They had none. Theirs was a fascist militaristic state Hitler would have been envious of. The Persian Empire comparably had more freedoms than Sparta. Most definitely.

[phoenixchilde]

Its sad you can't see blatant propaganda when its staring you right in the face.
:rolleyes:

It's sad that you imagine propaganda where there is none.

[bigus_dickus]

The heroic , handsome , superb , athletic , sexy good guys look Caucasian and the filthy , goat-shagging , treacherous , spawned-from-the-pit , obviously inbred , ugly bad guys look Arabic. Do you what I did with that sentence there ? Thats propaganda. Something similar happens in the film , but its a bit more subtle !

makes me wonder... if you were the director, how would you make that film?

so that no one perceives it as propaganda?

really curious here..

[james777]

GOOD, I'm glad!!!! Take the Iotola OUT!!!!! LONG LIVE AMERICA!!!!

[james777]

Good, I'm glad!! Take OUT the Iotola!!!! LONG LIVE AMERICA!!!

[lumukanda]

Good, I'm glad!! Take OUT the Iotola!!!! LONG LIVE AMERICA!!!

uhm, yeah, whatever... have you actually read any icke books? if answer is yes, did you understand any of it? is english your first language?
long live america, oh man, you crack me up.

[mrguitarbear]

Good, I'm glad!! Take OUT the Iotola!!!! LONG LIVE AMERICA!!!

I think you'll find the title is spelled ' Ayatollah '...:p

[mrguitarbear]

I saw what you did there, it's called clutching at straws.

Bigus_dickus, bigjim, you guys are right on. Thank you for restoring my faith in this forum.

Its not just me , check post 27 for a PDF article on the film which supports the propaganda view.

Read about the various forms of propaganda here : Propaganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Learn about PSYOPs : Psychological warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mrguitarbear]

King Xerxes I of Persia , reigned 485-465 B.C.

http://www.athensmarathon.com/marathon/images/xerxes.jpg

The depiction of King Xerxes I of Persia in ' 300 ' :

http://www.criterionpic.com/cpl/images/lcl_300poster.jpg

See how they made him look evil.

[mrguitarbear]

By basing the film on Frank Miller's graphic novel rather than on say the History of Herodotus , the makers of ' 300 ' are making a specific statement about the last stand of the Spartans.

Actual Persian Immortal :

http://www.sikyon.com/Athens/images/persian_arch.jpg

Persian Immortal from ' 300 ' :

http://www.cornerstorecomics.com/images/af_300_immortal_L.jpg

Orcs from ' Lord of the Rings ' :

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/orc_tos.jpg http://www.xenocorp.net/H_bardCorner/images/mpttt07_07.jpg

[bigus_dickus]

you are making false assumptions to begin with, that's why your false judgment.

the movie was not based on historical events, but on frank miller's comic book '300', which was based on actual historical events.

here is the website http://moebiusgraphics.com/comics/300.php#5

it has a link to the real history that the books are based on the top of the page. you can't miss it.

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/trailer/10011714/trailer_17.jpg

http://www.newsaramablog.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_300p5.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/112/260483509_24a4d018f1_o.jpg

they also said that they changed a few things from the comic, as the persian costumes, to make them look more fearful and added a few monsters, because it is supposed to be an impressive movie with graphics and fights and all that.

[mrguitarbear]

When people start changing history for a film , thats when your alarm bells should start going off !

Mumakil from ' Return of the King ' :

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/oliphaunt.jpg

Elephant from ' 300 ' :

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/6/0/8/3/13753806-13753808-large.jpg



But there were no elephants at the battle of Thermopylae !!!

[mrguitarbear]

Haradrim from ' The Return of the King ' :

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/harad-soldiers.jpg

Persian soldiers from ' 300 ' :

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1170203/photo_12.jpg

Notice any similarities ?

[mrguitarbear]

The Land of Mordor from ' Return of the King ' :

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/mordor.jpg

The land of Greece from ' 300 ' :

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/photos/300.jpg

What the REAL Pass at Thermopylae looks like !!! :

http://www.coloradocollege.edu/dept/CL/images/thermop.jpg

Not very much like the film is it ?

[mrguitarbear]

Heres some stuff from the web that accuses ' 300 ' of being anti-Iranian propaganda :

Link : 300 is blatant propaganda (http://www.edstrong.blog-city.com/300__blatant_propaganda_movie.htm)

Link :300 is racist , also spots similarity to ' RotK ' (http://sunkingpoet.com/om/?p=206)

Link : Rense.com - 300 is brainwashing and propaganda (http://www.rense.com/general75/300p.htm)

Link : 300 is propaganda for Bush's invasion of Iran (http://www.unsoughtinput.com/index.php/2007/03/14/300-homophobic-propaganda-for-bushs-upcoming-invasion-of-iran/)

Link : 300 - Triumph of the Vile (http://www.exile.ru/2007-March-23/war_nerd.html)

Link : 300 - it might be propaganda... (http://www.sulekha.com/groups/postdisplay.aspx?cid=101113&forumid=756952)

Link : 300 is propaganda - perceptive article (http://fruitsofourlabour.blogspot.com/2007/03/300-movie-review.html)

Link : 300 is propaganda - another article (http://www.artthreat.net/2007/03/95)

Link : 300 is propaganda - a different article (http://www.themeliorist.com/?q=300_american_propaganda)

Apparently Frank Miller is just a teensy bit right-wing as well , his next major work is Batman fights Al-Quaida...:rolleyes:

[mrguitarbear]

So lets look at this all again. The filmakers could have decided to make a stylish and highly accurate depiction of the Battle of Thermopylae , or make a highly-stylised , pro-right wing film based on Frank Miller's Persian ass-whupping epic ' 300 '. They went with the latter option.

Its clear from the beginning that this film is biased towards the Spartans and biased against the Persians , the Spartans are the good guys in all this.

To emphasise this point , the Persians are shown as a huge faceless horde led by a monstrous King ; their elite troops the Immortals look more like Tolkien's orcs than their historical counterparts , the filmakers chuck elephants in as a parallel to Tolkien's mumakil , and the whole battle is dark and gloomy like Tolkien's Mordor. In short , the Persian army is being compared to the Forces of Evil from ' The Return of the King '. This is loading the odds a bit isn't it ?

If this film isn't propaganda - and remember it appeared in cinemas at a time of heightened tensions between the US and Iran - then what the hell is ??? They made it like ' Return of the King ' FFS only with the Persians ( i.e. the Iranians ) as the bad guys ! Tell me - is this film not anti Persian/Iranian ?

I rest my case !

[phoenixchilde]

So lets look at this all again. The filmakers could have decided to make a stylish and highly accurate depiction of the Battle of Thermopylae , or make a highly-stylised , pro-right wing film based on Frank Miller's Persian ass-whupping epic ' 300 '. They went with the latter option.

Actually, if you learn the history behind it, it is highly accurate. Moreso than any other movie based on history that I've ever seen. You're dwelling on very small technicalities like appearance. Have you ever seen Sin City? Have you read any books by Frank Miller? They're all very dark in appearance. That doesn't make this propaganda, it makes him a typical modern artist.

Its clear from the beginning that this film is biased towards the Spartans and biased against the Persians , the Spartans are the good guys in all this.

Do you know the history behind these events? I suppose you're going to tell me that it never happened in the first place, and that the original movie or story was also just propaganda? 300 Spartan, 700 Thespians and an assortment of other Greeks stood against an army of over a million, and almost won. Add to that, the fact that they really were fighting in defence of their homelands against the largest empire at the time. You don't think that makes them good guys in that conflict? If you're telling me that the Persians weren't the good guys, then I guess that means that you support totalitarianism? Cause that's what the Persian Empire was all about you know.

[timestop24]

You're SOOOO right! What was I thinking. Hope Persia gets a thumping again! Thanks for clearing that up! :rolleyes:

[bigus_dickus]

Not very much like the film is it ?

well, just for the record, i am greek and i've been there many times, so i know exactly how it is.

but i don't know what difference does it make, i thought the people knew they were not going to watch a historical movie, but an epic one, fiction based on real events, like lots of other movies.

anyway, i don't want to say that i know for sure, it just didn't feel like propaganda, maybe you perceive it differently because of where you live.

so, just for the sake of the thread, here are the statues of leonidas in thermopyles and today's sparta:

http://www.worldwidepolka.com/Leonidas.jpg

http://www.laeditorialvirtual.com.ar/Pages/LosEspartanos/Images/LE35_MonumentoLeonidas.jpg

http://www.thegreekwarriors.com/images/560_Leonidas.jpg

[bigus_dickus]

Do you know the history behind these events? I suppose you're going to tell me that it never happened in the first place, and that the original movie or story was also just propaganda? 300 Spartan, 700 Thespians and an assortment of other Greeks stood against an army of over a million, and almost won. Add to that, the fact that they really were fighting in defence of their homelands against the largest empire at the time. You don't think that makes them good guys in that conflict? If you're telling me that the Persians weren't the good guys, then I guess that means that you support totalitarianism? Cause that's what the Persian Empire was all about you know.

i have heard they were lots more, some say over 2,5 mil and herodotus says they were 5 millions. he says that the greeks were about 10,000 first and leonidas stayed back with 300 spartans and 700 thespians to defend their retreat.

Was it really 300 Spartans against a million Persians?

According to ancient historian Herodotus, there were 5 million Persians at Thermopylæ (referenced in the movie as "the Hot Gates" which is the exact meaning of "Thermopylæ"), the main battle depicted in 300. Modern estimates run from 150,000 to 2 million. Britannica puts the number at 360,000. At the beginning of the battle, there were anywhere from 2 to 10,000 Greeks soldiers from various states commanded by Spartan King Leonidas. When the Persians outflanked the Greeks on the third day of fighting, Leonidas ordered his 300 Spartans as well as 400 Thebans to cover a withdrawal by the rest of the Greeks. Leonidas hoped to, "secure the whole glory for the Spartans," wrote Herodotus, providing an Athenian view. There were also 700 Thespian hoplites who refused the order to retreat. The Thebans eventually surrendered and were branded by the Persians, according to Herodotus (pro-Theban historian Plutarch wrote an angry response entitled "The Malice of Herodotus"). The Spartans and the Thespians fought to the death.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/faq

true, on the other side facing the statue of leonidas is the monument for the thespians. there is no monument for the thivans.

[james777]

I think you'll find the title is spelled ' Ayatollah '...:p



LOL......spell it how you want, but fuck them!!!!

[james777]

Who really cares anyways, it's just a movie for ENTERTAIMENT purposes......just like Ickes books and all this other shit. It all keeps our minds occupied on other things while they all stand there and pull the rug out from under our feet..............If I were you, I wouldn't put my trust in the words and thoughts of such an unstable man......Icke is a puppet, just like the very puppet's he accuses others of being, and by the way, he's almost a 33rd Degree Mason in his final testing stages......DO NOT TRUST HIM....

[zircon]

I'm concerned by these last posts, when someone can accuse D Icke of being unstable, and the same person in his other threads can say that he would put two bullets in the head of any intruder, that "we need to kill our rebellious flesh", and is sure that he has "the creator on my side". That sounds a bit unstable to me. As proof is at the centre of any debate, what proof do you have that D.Icke is going to become a 33rd degree mason?
Unfortunately, when we look through history, it is plain that any individually named "creator" has not been on the side of humanity. In the book of Isaiah (45:7) God is quoted as saying, ‘I create evil’, and in Amos (3:6) it is asked,
‘Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?’ This Jehovah was a man, Moses and Israel thought of him as a man; he agreed to show his feet, his hands, his back, in fact, his whole person except his face.

[mrguitarbear]

In truth a lot of the things I've been saying DO stem from Frank Miller who wrote the graphic novel. Some people feel Miller is a racist , that he has gone very right wing after 9/11 and so on. But the filmakers could have identified offensive elements and removed them or altered them. This can be done as alterations were made in the films of Alan Moore's graphic novels ' V for Vendetta ' and ' From Hell '.

The very dark atmosphere of Greece in ' 300 ' is very unusual , in that its usually associated with the future - in that the future is supposedly polluted , troubled and so on. You can see this in the Terminator films , Judge Dredd , Blade Runner , V for Vendetta , Sin City etc so I think its fair to say that this idea may have been borrowed from the Lord of the Rings final part. That was a work based on a novel !

The real question lies here : why has this film been made and appeared now ?
Who has funded it ? Why does it paint such a negative and sinister depiction of the Persians ?

In contrast there was hardly any fuss when ' Alexander ' came out , another film which depicts a Greek hero defeating the Persians and taking control of their empire. The Persians here were depicted in a far more accurate way however.

' 300 ' was guaranteed to upset the Iranians with its depiction of their people as monsters. It presented the West ( Spartans and Greeks ) as right and good and the East ( Persians/Iranians ) as a terrifying Asiatic horde.

Since the original situation was more complicated , thats why the film is pro-Western propaganda.

[james777]

well my friend, the real question is, 'What proof do YOU have that he isn't?'

It's ok, I'm not angry with you, You're just as confused as everyone else, but you know that what I say makes sense and you know that deep inside you have belief. Just quit denying it and your future will be much calmer.

Oh ya, and your damn right, if some lizard creature came through my door un-announced, I would put 2 through his head!!

[james777]

I apologize to everyone for having any negative remarks. I truly meant no harm, just was trying to stir the pot.........please forgive me........

[zircon]

that's no problem. Personally I'm not trying to persuade anyone and I feel completely calm in myself; and you have a right to question, to put these confused things to the test; we all do, and to learn truth. All the best of good wishes to you my friend.

[mitch_lane]

mrguitarbear wrote:

In other words : Spartans=USA=Forces of Democracy=Forces of Good while Persians=Iranians=Forces of Evil.

Americans should be aware that this film seems to be a propaganda piece designed to convince them of the veracity for a war against Iran - watch out ! Theres also a video game going to be released , so you can get killing yourself !

while I think that most people who frequent these conspiracy type forums would acknowledge that Hollywood is certainly an epicentre of mind control there are a couple of things that may colour this film a little differently. I have family living in Dubai and they tell me that showings of it there have gone down quite a storm with Arabs that watch it: apparently they particulary like (and cheer and clap) the Spartans last stand and the part where Queen Gorgo stabs the treacherous politician, Theron. Also, as was pointed out, the Spartans could be seen as the US standing up for Democracy and the Persians as Iran trying to stop the birth of that Democracy in Iraq but it could also be seen another way. The Persians could be seen as a vast army of occupation (the US, UK and others in the coalition of the willing) and the Spartans as a small group fighting for liberty from the oppressors( the so called "insurgents"). So the propaganda on display here may not be clear cut.
Also, mrguitarbear, the pictures that you posted comparing an ancient image of a likeness of Xerxes to that as displayed by the film was incorrect: the image that you showed from the film poster was that of a chained beast/man that was used to attack Leonidas and not a representation of Xerxes.

[mitch_lane]

mrguitarbear wrote:

...In truth a lot of the things I've been saying DO stem from Frank Miller who wrote the graphic novel. Some people feel Miller is a racist , that he has gone very right wing after 9/11 and so on.

I am a little concerned about Millers apparent move to the right ( let's face it, most artists tend to be somewhat liberal) and have heard that his next Batman comic will have the Dark Knight fighting Al Qaeda ( I've sent him a copy of Adam Curtis' "The Power of Nightmares" to try and open his eyes to the real creation of "The Database").
However, if you read Millers DK2- a sequel to the Dark Knight Returns- then you find him taking a pretty severe anti-government stance- taking the piss out of Rumsfield and Ashcroft and even indicating that the President is just a digital image- and that was written after 9/11 ( there is a reference to it in the comic) so I'm unsure what to make of where Miller stands: guess I'll have to wait until I see more recent work of his to make my mind up

[mrguitarbear]

http://blog.archenemy.org/wp-uploads/xerxes.jpg

Right picture this time !

Xerxes from '300' , still not much like the real Xerxes.

[phoenixchilde]

http://blog.archenemy.org/wp-uploads/xerxes.jpg

Right picture this time !

Xerxes from '300' , still not much like the real Xerxes.

In all your posts, you are ignoring one simple fact that explains most of what you call propaganda. That fact is that Frank Miller is a modern artist. This means that he is a trend follower, like every other modern artist. When he makes his comics, like 300 and Sin City, he makes them dark, because that's trendy to the people who read them. He's simply an uncreative artist who's following the left wing herd.

This explains why all the Persians look like freaks, this explains why it's all dark and dreary, this even explains why all the Greek soldiers are wearing very little.

[mitch_lane]

phoenixchilde wrote:

In all your posts, you are ignoring one simple fact that explains most of what you call propaganda. That fact is that Frank Miller is a modern artist. This means that he is a trend follower, like every other modern artist. When he makes his comics, like 300 and Sin City, he makes them dark, because that's trendy to the people who read them. He's simply an uncreative artist who's following the left wing herd.

This explains why all the Persians look like freaks, this explains why it's all dark and dreary, this even explains why all the Greek soldiers are wearing very little.

This is a bit simplistic, I feel, and certainly the charge of being "uncreative" is not justified at all. I can only take from that that you are not a big reader of comic books. Amongst comic book artists/writers Miller is something of a trend setter ( hate the phrase but it's late and I can't conjure better at the moment) rather than a follower. Like Moore, Kirby, McLoud, Steranko, Moench, Buckler, Talbot and others he has altered the way that comics tell their stories. He has given them gravitas. Maybe you are mistaking that for darkness. Comic books, the same as any other art form, run the gamut of styles and weight of story. With 300 I believe it is possible that it was just Miller getting the chance to tell- in his own palette- a story that had thrilled him when younger. And by the way I didn't think that Miller's representation of Xerxes made him look like a freak. It gave a sort of- and here I believe that you are correct about the modernity- rock star, King Of The World feel which is characterisation: comics often have to deal in shorthand so this seems perfect way to sum up a ruler of almost all the known world.

[arch]

@mrguitarbear: Thanks for your posts!

I'm going to see this film now.

[mrguitarbear]

If you just take it as a movie , ' 300 ' is a pretty good film , its very gung-ho but I suppose thats to be expected.

If you know something about Persian history though , you will dislike the depiction of the Persians. I don't think any of the Persian characters even get a name ( apart from Xerxes ) - they are all grossly fat , ugly or effeminate.

Xerxes' tent is definitely weird - its full of naked lesbians and theres a black goat playing the lyre !

When you see the Immortals , you just can't help saying ' Orcs ' ! This film was definitely made to upset the Iranians !

[mrguitarbear]

http://www.omelete.com.br/imagens/diversos/300poster4.jpg

Imagine if the Iranians made a film depicting Abraham Lincoln or JFK as a perverted weirdo , the Americans wouldn't like it !

[phoenixchilde]

Comic books, the same as any other art form, run the gamut of styles and weight of story. With 300 I believe it is possible that it was just Miller getting the chance to tell- in his own palette- a story that had thrilled him when younger.

I'm not arguing against that. My point is that it's mostly historically accurate, and the few misses that he made were due to him being a typical modern artist, which caused him to freakify a few things, and darken a few things.

And by the way I didn't think that Miller's representation of Xerxes made him look like a freak.

His face was covered in peircings, how did that not make him look freakish? I'm not saying freak as in deformed, but freak as in freak-culture. Very popular among artists.

[timestop24]

Another view on who the Persians and their 'sympathizers" represent:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IE03Ak02.html


Xerxes, the Persian king, was shown decorated with piercings and rings, shaved, and with bizarre attire. He bore no resemblance to the real Persian king but could well be a parody of a leftist punk from New York or California. His sexual ambivalence clearly referred to students in women's and gay and lesbian studies, who proclaim that gender is just a "discursive construct".

Today you are a boy, tomorrow a girl. And deformed Ephialtes, the traitor go-between, could be an allusion to leftists such as the flamboyant academic Ward Churchill, who proposed that some of those who perished on September 11, 2001, were in some way Nazis. A barb against the left could be seen even in the Persian messenger, the negative figure whom Leonidas pushes into the well. The messenger is black, a travesty for the left, for in most US movies today blacks are positive figures; there may be one negative black character, surrounded by positive black characters.
Against these leftist traitors who worked for the enemy, the hardcore neo-conservatives, the patriotic Spartans of the White House, surrounded themselves with shields and fought desperately to save the ungrateful American hoi polloi from themselves. They fought hard, but as their positions deteriorated their approach changed. For the victorious leaders in previous movies on the West's confrontation with East, the brain is a luxury.

Agile Achilles or indomitable Alexander could crush enemies by might or superb handling of weapons. Yet it became painfully clear with the approach of enemies from the rear (Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and Ephialtes - Professor Churchill - the enemy helpers' "fifth column") that muscle in itself might not be sufficient. So the hard-pressed Spartans in the White House started to engage in sophisticated political games to unsettle the major enemy - Iran.

[e7304]

We have Frank Millers movie when things are NOT good between the evil empire and Persia. When Arnie had his movie "COLLATERAL DAMAGE" or something like that , the movie was delayed in its showing because of 911. We have this now possible attack against Iran because of Israel firsters and there is no "sensitive" view on a pure bullshity propaganda movie. If people like it, well that is fine, as you would obviously like the "gay" icon movies of the fifties and sixties.Its as historically accurate as a Simpson's episode, but it does the trick.

Pure bull but the gay greeks probably love it and play it at their night clubs. Which means that many people in the White House would just "love it" too.

I think many "spartan" nights have already been performed in the Lincoln room.

[armoured saint]

If you just take it as a movie , ' 300 ' is a pretty good film , its very gung-ho but I suppose thats to be expected.

If you know something about Persian history though , you will dislike the depiction of the Persians. I don't think any of the Persian characters even get a name ( apart from Xerxes ) - they are all grossly fat , ugly or effeminate.

Xerxes' tent is definitely weird - its full of naked lesbians and theres a black goat playing the lyre !

When you see the Immortals , you just can't help saying ' Orcs ' ! This film was definitely made to upset the Iranians !


I happen to like watching historical epics and with an interest in history, I have learned to discern and not take Hollywood serious. The 60s Hollywood version was a little more realisitic. Is there a political motive for this movie? Of course, nothing is done these days without political consequences and/or cause and effect.

Regardless, if you dislike the depiction of Persia in the history books, certain facts still remain. Facts such as the belief in divinity of the Persian king which is directly parallel to the Pope and his 'infallibility', remain. This person demanded total subjugation and rule of everyone.The King demanded worship and obedience of all other Kings and nations. He conquered and went to places that was not his business, just like Hitler conquering Europe. He invaded Egypt and ripped down their temples and statues. He conquered Asia Minor brutally. Those who put up a fight had their towns burned to the ground.

Apparently it was the Persians who coined the phrase "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"(reference to Trojan horse), and I'm not sure if this is true or just a Greek tale but at one time the Persian king was expecting gifts from all over the known world from Kings and vassals. He jokingly enquired on what gift the Greeks brought him. They gave him no gift, and the Persian King was furious and swore to bring down Greece.

The Persians did burn Athens and a few other Greek towns. In the end Alexander burned Persepolis as a final symbolic end to the Megalomaniac regime of the line of Persian Kings. Alexander wasn't harsh on the populace except for those whom he saw as antagonists to Greece. He respected all the Asian cultures, respected Babylon. Persepolis was newly built and a symbol of Persian conquests that he felt had to be doused, but he didnt douse the Persians.

I've seen some documentaries where Alexander is portryed as a real negative for the burning of Persepolis, but one scene that comes to mind as to what would have happened is akin to the final scene of "Conan The Barbarian" where he burns the temple and contemplates whilst watching it burn.