Some apparent contradictions - help please [Archive]

View Full Version : Some apparent contradictions - help please

eelhouse

31-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Hi

I am new to this group having having watched
DI's excellent presentation DVD "Freedom or Fascism".
I apologise profusely if what I am about to say has been already covered,
but I'm afraid I don't have time to trawl through all the postings.

Anyway, for me at least, there are a number of contradictions and questions (of mine)
in the presentation which there may or may not be resolutions to.

I will list them:

1. If the Illuminati (right to the top - possibly extra-dimensional beings)
are carrying out an agenda which is truly "evil", should we not worry that the entities will
"get" us when we pass on after dying? David seems not to consider this, demonstrated by his
absence of fear of death.

2. How does the open-minded acceptance of the truths of the Illuminati somehow "free" us
and what are the benefits of this "freedom"?

3. What benefits do the Illuminati get from a closed-minded controlled people - is it some benefit
to them purely on our plane (life), or does it extend into the next dimension of consciousness
(i.e. after death)?

4. What would be the consequences of the worst case scenario, where we receive an implant.
According to David this is to be feared above all else - why so much fear?

5. David makes a lot for the case of a totally evil organisation from top down, being in existence,
but doesnt actually suggest or speculate on *WHY* the Illuminati are carrying out their agenda??
This surely is the most necessary of all information for us?

6. Where does the 2012 year come from? This sounds a bit like false prophets making predictions
with moveable dates about (say) the end of the world.

7. I am sure people have noticed the uncanny parallels of David (the religious unbeliever's) beliefs compared
with the accounts in the Christian New Testament regarding total control of the world by the antichrist,
marking with 666 of people on their foreheads or wrists (implant parallels) so that they give total allegiance
to the beast or devil incarnate (in 2012?). Is this sheer coincidence?

These are just a few of my questions. I apologise for the voluminous first post, but would welcome any "enlightenment" on these apparent contradictions and questions that I have. Again I apolgise if these matters have already been covered.
Perhaps someone could be kind enough to point me to a particular thread or other sources of information.

Many thanks in advance. :)

Eelhouse

paganus

31-01-2008, 09:44 PM

personally i think DI is right in some areas,but way off in others.NWO? yes.i see that as ZOG.illuminati? no.i doubt they still even exist,and if you research them you'll see they were benign.freemasons?a few individuals probably use it for gain,but then,that happens in any organisation.in the main its a club for men with 'esoteric' trappings.reptilians? why? as for revelation,i strongly beleive the ZOG use it as a blueprint,because people then feel fatalistic/wait for a 'saviour'(ie-do nothing).it also fits their 'religious' beliefs.you should check out a few of the facts yourself,dont just take one persons interpretation.that goes for my interpretation too.check from different,unconnected sources.hope this helps! oh,and 2012 refers to the Mayan prophesies.their calender abruptly ends then.end of cycle sort of thing.

tinmenace

31-01-2008, 09:50 PM

I think you'll have to do more than watch one DVD to get the full picture.

And The Truth Shall Set You Free (http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5/affiliate/idevaffiliate.php?id=288_0_1_8) is a good start.

I haven't read the latest one (http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=50/affiliate/idevaffiliate.php?id=288_0_1_8), but it is described as a "dot connector", so you might want to try that one also.

And then do some of your own research ;)

adimon

31-01-2008, 09:51 PM

Hi eelhouse. I have a view of the elite powers which differs vastly from most on here. It's not so much 'what you research' but methodology which I think creates such differences, and which informs my own view.

1. If the Illuminati (right to the top - possibly extra-dimensional beings)

Often the first lemma that people pass on the way into their research is that all these secret societies are linked. The second lemma is often that the forces controlling this network are not human, since this explains a lot of the 'inhuman' decisions or 'evil'.

My approach takes me away from these lemmas and down a different 'avenue' almost entirely. Rather than a top-down model, why not start bottom-up - by asking such questions as - "Why is this like THIS?" or "Who IS this guy and what does HE THINK?"

are carrying out an agenda which is truly "evil", should we not worry that the entities will
"get" us when we pass on after dying? David seems not to consider this, demonstrated by his
absence of fear of death.

I'm a total atheist, so believe that there is nothing after death. You will have to ask the spiritual/religious folk here if you want to get a specific answer on that.

2. How does the open-minded acceptance of the truths of the Illuminati somehow "free" us
and what are the benefits of this "freedom"?

Whether you know it or not this is an extremely good question.

If you found out that a large French car manufacturer were using recently-deceased dead children instead of crash-test dummies, what would it mean for you? Would you be better off, or would you just feel worse?

The answer lies in the fact that information is what you make of it, what you do with it. So if you work to expose this car manufacturer, you are doing good. If however, you wish to do this, you would do well to make sure you were right first IMO. The 'truth' may be out there, but it's a much-abused word.

3. What benefits do the Illuminati get from a closed-minded controlled people - is it some benefit
to them purely on our plane (life), or does it extend into the next dimension of consciousness
(i.e. after death)?

Apathetic consumerism.

4. What would be the consequences of the worst case scenario, where we receive an implant.
According to David this is to be feared above all else - why so much fear?

First of all, be aware that this kind of question is likely to attract attention from some that would call you names like 'shill' and 'troll' because of the way that you phrased it.

My view starts from the libertarian position that nothing should be done to a person's body that they do not want. Compulsory ID cards is one thing. Compulsory surgery is another.

5. David makes a lot for the case of a totally evil organisation from top down, being in existence,
but doesnt actually suggest or speculate on *WHY* the Illuminati are carrying out their agenda??
This surely is the most necessary of all information for us?

Most such researchers seem to suggest the motive is purely power, or something more occult/extra-terrestrial. Personally I think the actions of the global business elite are so obviously about money I don't understand why others are blinkered.

6. Where does the 2012 year come from? This sounds a bit like false prophets making predictions
with moveable dates about (say) the end of the world.

A fair definition IMO. When one is making proper predictions you say 'what you think will happen' (prediction) and 'why' (evidence).

PREDICTION: This year, in the United Kingdom, it will be warmer on average in July, than in January.

EVIDENCE: The weather has been that way as far back as records show.

PREDICTION: John McCain will win the Presidency.

EVIDENCE: Polls, opinions of certain key individuals, the GOP debates etc.. PLUS the Democrats do not, IMO have an electable candidate.

etc etc...

7. I am sure people have noticed the uncanny parallels of David (the religious unbeliever's) beliefs compared
with the accounts in the Christian New Testament regarding total control of the world by the antichrist,
marking with 666 of people on their foreheads or wrists (implant parallels) so that they give total allegiance
to the beast or devil incarnate (in 2012?). Is this sheer coincidence?

I don't give any credence to these sorts of things at all. They are all human fantasies which are mulled over purely because of their age. They are no more or less relevant than in AD20. They are IRRELEVANT due to their total lack of any sort of consolidation.

Again I apolgise if these matters have already been covered.
Perhaps someone could be kind enough to point me to a particular thread or other sources of information.

Yeah, my advice would be to post subsequent such questions individually in the relevant forums - e.g. Religion.

Many thanks in advance. :)

No worries. Welcome to the Forum.

Chris

cruise4

31-01-2008, 10:27 PM

1. Worry about if you want but if the premise is correct this could be a possibility.

2. You can only participate in a solution if you know there's a problem.

3. Closed-minded controlled people will not form revolutions.

4. Because the chip could be used to overide your own thought.

5. Control hence Power. Money has been used to control but for various reasons will become increasingly unreliable so alternatives are being sought.

6. Mayan Calendar, Hopi Indians, Pyramids + many other sources.

7. Is this sheer coincidence? No.

guyblokeman

31-01-2008, 11:10 PM

1. If the Illuminati (right to the top - possibly extra-dimensional beings)
are carrying out an agenda which is truly "evil", should we not worry that the entities will
"get" us when we pass on after dying? David seems not to consider this, demonstrated by his
absence of fear of death.

Eelhouse

They can never get you:)

eelhouse

01-02-2008, 01:08 AM

Any chance of an explanation? :)

cruise4

01-02-2008, 01:46 AM

from who about what? If you mean this:

"They can never get you"

He/she has no idea as you could only say 'never' if you have experienced all possibilities. There are accounts about, that the soul can be trapped. Its up to you to research and make sense of this stuff. Try searching the forum for subjects you are interested in.

guyblokeman

01-02-2008, 07:29 PM

I was trying not to invoke a fear response:rolleyes:

guyblokeman

01-02-2008, 07:33 PM

Any chance of an explanation? :)

Fear is what they want, dont give it to them.
Instead, recognize they are also you, so you should love them.

Yes maybe there are accounts of souls getting trapped, but is that a reality you particulaly want to manifest?

Be mindful of your thoughts - Buddha

paganus

01-02-2008, 07:34 PM

I was trying not to invoke a fear response:rolleyes:fear is a great motivater.its how wild animals survive.its a state of constant awareness.

edelweiss pirate

01-02-2008, 07:59 PM

eelhouse

02-02-2008, 12:54 AM

Fear and terror is the masonic mindset....

If your thoughts are fear and terror based then you will manifest your fears...

If the UK population can control their fears re. terrorism (as they seem to be) then there will be no terror attack. If however they fall prey to the media manipulation machine and buy into the fear, that is the world they will see.

If enough people believe something to be real then it becomes real by virtue of belief, if however

This sounds good....I am not being facetious, but "if people do not believe in something then it has no reality for them." do you still believe your first sentence that "Fear and terror is the masonic mindset"?

It seems like we are into a circular argument or a contradiction here.:confused:

kblood

02-02-2008, 12:57 AM

Life is full of contradictions. Everything is contradicted by something else. We shape what we believe by choosing what matches our own view of reality.

paganus

02-02-2008, 02:36 AM

Fear and terror is the masonic mindset....

If your thoughts are fear and terror based then you will manifest your fears...

If the UK population can control their fears re. terrorism (as they seem to be) then there will be no terror attack. If however they fall prey to the media manipulation machine and buy into the fear, that is the world they will see.

If enough people believe something to be real then it becomes real by virtue of belief, if however people do not believe in something then it has no reality for them.your talking about concensus reality.it requires x amount of people to cause 'paradigm shift' until then,it is wise to be vigilant.we need to infiltate general society with the 'correct' vibe to obtain the shift.kinda like reality hacking!

cruise4

02-02-2008, 07:26 AM

Shaping people's beliefs is a matter for them I believe but should be based on open information. Although I appreciate where you are coming from.

paganus

02-02-2008, 07:59 AM

Shaping people's beliefs is a matter for them I believe but should be based on open information. Although I appreciate where you are coming from.my idea was to beat the corporate advertisers at their own game.posters,as mysterious(and therefore alluring) as possible,with maybe a website advertised.graffiti with messages.notes in the margins of library books.all arrows pointing the way.i shall quote 'Rage Against The Machine'-"you better beware revolutions with mind-wars,20-20 visions,and murals with metaphors" your not forcing anyone,just giving them another option,showing the truth,putting Magick into the mundane,corporate society.

cruise4

02-02-2008, 08:32 AM

paganus

02-02-2008, 08:39 AM

I was thinking along those lines but incorporating 9 and 11 into a beautiful picture or characters so that I think of that image and not the twin towers. I think the 9/11 Truth movement may have done this to some extent. A good idea I feel paganus.maybe a forum project? see what people can come up with.spread it where we live,online,bluejack it,get to reach people who dont usually get reached.

edelweiss pirate

02-02-2008, 10:36 AM

This sounds good....I am not being facetious, but "if people do not believe in something then it has no reality for them." do you still believe your first sentence that "Fear and terror is the masonic mindset"?

It seems like we are into a circular argument or a contradiction here.:confused:

It is..... I was trained by masons... I got illuminated when my fear reached a certain pitch and I saw things clearly...

At that point I decided this isn't the life for me... so I escaped...

All those rituals punishments and demons in your mind...

Their world is all about fear.... sadly there are becoming more and more masons and schizophrenics in our society therefore the fear is spreading into our own world.

drael

03-02-2008, 01:30 PM

1. No. There is information on dimensions, and the entities of these dimensions (ie "aliens") in books like the law of one, and channelings about the nature of reptiles, sirians, plaedians and greys. The rub is basically this - the anunnuki (reptiles) are interested in the energy of fear and hate, which they use like a sort of physical resource - Their influence, and their motivation applies only to the physical realm, where such emotions exist. In short, they have a special interest in the physical, and they have a special power in the physical.

2. How does the open-minded acceptance of the truths of the Illuminati somehow "free" us
and what are the benefits of this "freedom"?

Heirarchy thinking and the ingrained philosophies of the nwo prevent us from being happy as a people and as individuals. Being aware of these manipulations is like realising that you have been wearing pink sunglasses your whole life. (and u can see new things without them)

3. What benefits do the Illuminati get from a closed-minded controlled people - is it some benefit
to them purely on our plane (life), or does it extend into the next dimension of consciousness
(i.e. after death)?

The annunki get direct physical-type benefit from fear and hate. The powers that be themselves want to become godlike, like literal divinities. The also see themselves as the only fit rulers, possessed of some rare wisdom and intelligence. So the benefits to them are - they get to feel good about themselves (ego), they get to be feared and worshipped, have access to special knowledge/power & also the illusion that they are doing some kind of "good".

4. What would be the consequences of the worst case scenario, where we receive an implant.
According to David this is to be feared above all else - why so much fear?

I disagree with this personally. People imagine chips being used to control our thoughts. The secret societies the nwo is networked by all espouse the left-hand path(black magick) ideal of personal godhood. Godhood requires active worship, not zombie like following. Think about it, the nwo are people, they have human motivations, like pride. What "joy"/satisfaction would there be in ruling such an empire? (one of zombies). There is a lack of account for motivation in such fears IMO.

5. David makes a lot for the case of a totally evil organisation from top down, being in existence,
but doesnt actually suggest or speculate on *WHY* the Illuminati are carrying out their agenda??
This surely is the most necessary of all information for us?

See above, re the left hand path goal of personal godhood, the benefits to the annunuki, and the morality of elitism (only a few are fit to rule). Agreed this insight is missing, and this is a very important part of the picture (without it, one is often simply indulging personal fear scenarios)

6. Where does the 2012 year come from? This sounds a bit like false prophets making predictions
with moveable dates about (say) the end of the world.

The mayan calander. According to this, 2012, 21 dec is the begining of a new astrological age, the fifth age.

7. I am sure people have noticed the uncanny parallels of David (the religious unbeliever's) beliefs compared
with the accounts in the Christian New Testament regarding total control of the world by the antichrist,
marking with 666 of people on their foreheads or wrists (implant parallels) so that they give total allegiance
to the beast or devil incarnate (in 2012?). Is this sheer coincidence?

Thats not _exactly_ what the bible says, is it? Either way, it may not be coincidence. Numerous spritual and mystic texts contain secrets and truths to the true nature of the world (including the reptiles, nwo etc). Personally, IMO, the bible is not the most informative here, but it has some interesting parts. Ive always found the stuff on babylon is _so_ talking about our sort of society.

There is a reason why these texts contain truth. They are essentially mystery school teachings (right hand path, white magick) which have been corrupted by the NWO for use as control religions. The more popular the religion, the more altered the text/message. The original teachings were anti-heirarchy, anti-ego, anti-nwo - the literal enemy of the nwo. Hence, they are packed with truth, but either a)metaphorical/mystical (therefor hard to access/read) b) severly altered. My preference is for the former sort of book, its purer information...

guyblokeman

04-02-2008, 09:44 PM

fear is a great motivater.its how wild animals survive.its a state of constant awareness.

No, a constant state of awareness is a constant state of awareness, or zanshin. Nothing to do with fear.

I do agree that fear can be a great motivater, but surely we can keep the motivation whilst evolving past fear?

angelmoon

04-02-2008, 10:58 PM

fear is a constant state of awareness it the fight or flight affect that we carry from our evolution which in to days terms is termed as anxiety as we feel this fear for no apparent reason x x

guyblokeman

07-02-2008, 06:05 PM

fear is a constant state of awareness it the fight or flight affect that we carry from our evolution which in to days terms is termed as anxiety as we feel this fear for no apparent reason x x

Fear is a confused state of mind, irrational judgement.

My point is you can have the same state of awareness, better even, but minus the fear.

Martial arts?

paganus

07-02-2008, 07:16 PM

Fear is a confused state of mind, irrational judgement.

My point is you can have the same state of awareness, better even, but minus the fear.

Martial arts?dont confuse fear with panic.they are not the same.

guyblokeman

17-02-2008, 03:13 AM

dont confuse fear with panic.they are not the same.

The two are synonymous.

phildee3

17-02-2008, 09:58 AM

The two are synonymous.

I don't think so.
You can be frozen with fear.
Panic involves action, doesn't it?

phildee3

17-02-2008, 10:00 AM

Don't confuse being afraid with fear.
They are not the same.

guyblokeman

18-02-2008, 05:09 PM

Hhmmmm.....

From www.dictionary.co.uk

Panic - A sudden, overpowering fright; esp., a sudden and groundless fright; terror inspired by a trifling cause or a misapprehension of danger; as, the troops were seized with a panic; they fled in a panic.
- Extreme or sudden and causeless; unreasonable; -- said of fear or fright; as, panic fear, terror, alarm

Fear - To feel a painful apprehension of; to be afraid of; to consider or expect with emotion of alarm or solicitude.

Synonymous - Having the same or a similar meaning

Let me just clarify here, your saying fear is a good thing?

paganus

18-02-2008, 08:34 PM

guyblokeman

19-02-2008, 12:16 AM

Thats like saying eating meat is ok because we wouldnt be here now if we hadnt. While that may be true, we are now at a point where we can get the same benefits (staying alive) by different means.

Same with fear, yes we probably might not have been here if it hadnt developed, but evolution is a continual process.

Your argument which is effectively, "Its ok we, used to do it" doesnt really hold much weight.