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rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:30 AM
In another thread herald_holmes wrote:

Rape does not just involve sex crimes, any forced intercourse.


which imo brings up a problem for the FOTL.

Non sexual intercourse, in other words any kind of human communication or interaction according to hh is a criminal offence if the other party does not consent.
So is talking to a stranger rape?
Talking to a friend who does not consent to you talking to them, is that rape?
Is it a case of causing harm?

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 12:37 AM
In another thread herald_holmes wrote:




which imo brings up a problem for the FOTL.

Non sexual intercourse, in other words any kind of human communication or interaction according to hh is a criminal offence if the other party does not consent.
So is talking to a stranger rape?
Talking to a friend who does not consent to you talking to them, is that rape?
Is it a case of causing harm?


Forced intercourse rumpy, meaning no choice.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:39 AM
Forced intercourse rumpy, meaning no choice.

Right, you were going to provide that definition in the CC.
I eagerly await.

micklemus
16-11-2011, 12:41 AM
So, Herald, when a parent is telling off an adolescent child, is that rape in your book too?

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 12:50 AM
Right, you were going to provide that definition in the CC.
I eagerly await.

verb
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder; despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:52 AM
verb
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder; despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Is that from the CC or your dictionary?

theabominablephenomenon
16-11-2011, 12:53 AM
Psychological or emotional rape.

jaynette
16-11-2011, 12:54 AM
verb
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder; despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Yes and?

if I talk dirty to my other half does this mean I am having oral sex

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:54 AM
Psychological or emotional rape.

Wow.
So I could be raping HH right now.

micklemus
16-11-2011, 12:55 AM
Ah so when Herald says any forced intercourse he means not any forced intercourse but one of the other definitions. Noted.

theabominablephenomenon
16-11-2011, 12:55 AM
Wow.
So I could be raping HH right now.

You may on the other hand have honest intentions.;)

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:56 AM
So those rioters in London recently are guilty of gang rape!:eek:

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:58 AM
Ah so when Herald says any forced intercourse he means not any forced intercourse but one of the other definitions. Noted.

Indeed.
Pick 'n' mix rears it's ugly head again.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Are you going to answer this hh?
So, Herald, when a parent is telling off an adolescent child, is that rape in your book too?

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:00 AM
Yes and?

if I talk dirty to my other half does this mean I am having oral sex

If it is forced and against his will, then yes it is rape.

Drug him, tie him up and whisper sweet nothing into his ear.

theabominablephenomenon
16-11-2011, 01:01 AM
So those rioters in London recently are guilty of gang rape!:eek:

It is more about what perpetrator doesn't say or do...

Anyway, fuck this, I'm goin' kip. :)

cantata
16-11-2011, 01:05 AM
Rape always involved penetration by the penis:

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Definitionofrape2.php

Assaults, intimidations and harrassments can come in many forms, including verbal.

:)

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:05 AM
Are you going to answer this hh?

If it is forced and against their will it is rape.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 01:11 AM
If it is forced and against their will it is rape.

Is that your opinion or have you got some case law to back that up?

jaynette
16-11-2011, 01:15 AM
Ah so when Herald says any forced intercourse he means not any forced intercourse but one of the other definitions. Noted.

No, he doesn't know what he means.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 01:22 AM
Those FOTL courts are going to be busy.
All those ickle FOTLers bringing charges of rape against nasty mummy "costh nasthty mummy sssthouted at me."

solzhenitsyn
16-11-2011, 01:25 AM
Those FOTL courts are going to be busy.
All those ickle FOTLers bringing charges of rape against nasty mummy "costh nasthty mummy sssthouted at me."

Wait, won't those FOTL courts also be committing rape when they issue their judgments? We'll need a whole other branch of the judiciary to deal with rape allegations against the first branch of the FOTL judiciary. But wait, won't the second branch of the FOTL courts be committing rape against the first branch of the FOTL courts when they issue their judgments? Oh dear. This is getting complicated.

There is an awful lot of rape in FOTL-land.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:28 AM
Rape always involved penetration by the penis:

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Definitionofrape2.php

Assaults, intimidations and harrassments can come in many forms, including verbal.

:)

Rape always involved penetration by the penis:

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Definitionofrape2.php

Assaults, intimidations and harrassments can come in many forms, including verbal.

:)

The etymology comes from the Latin 'rapere' meaning to seize, take, plunder, by force;

The legal world change definitions to words to deceive people from their true meaning.

Rape is not just a male sexual act against a women with their penis.

undeadcreature
16-11-2011, 01:29 AM
For the benefit of Mr Holmes, here is rape as defined in the law.

(2)A man commits rape if—(a)he has sexual intercourse with a person (whether vaginal or anal) who at the time of the intercourse does not consent to it; and(b)at the time he knows that the person does not consent to the intercourse or is reckless as to whether that person consents to it.

Brown Sauce: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/4-5/69

jaynette
16-11-2011, 01:30 AM
rob is going to have some explaining to do with all the shit he tries to ram down the throats of the gullible. the charges won't stop coming.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:31 AM
Those FOTL courts are going to be busy.
All those ickle FOTLers bringing charges of rape against nasty mummy "costh nasthty mummy sssthouted at me."

If mommy abuses her children, mommy is a nasty bit of work. She must be a statanist.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 01:31 AM
rob is going to have some explaining to do with all the shit he tries to ram down the throats of the gullible. the charges won't stop coming.
Careful, that sounds like an accusation of rape:eek:

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:33 AM
No, he doesn't know what he means.

Rape means to to seize, take, plunder, by force; I say you have no idea what you are talking about.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 01:35 AM
For the benefit of Mr Holmes, here is rape as defined in the law.



Brown Sauce: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/4-5/69

That is not defined by Law, it was defined by legal system.

The word comes from Latin meaning to seize, take, plunder, by force.

jaynette
16-11-2011, 01:36 AM
Careful, that sounds like an accusation of rape:eek:

sounds like. is that rape too then?

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 01:36 AM
Rape means to to seize, take, plunder, by force; I say you have no idea what you are talking about.

We're talking about criminal law here, and so far you have not managed to cite anything to back up your claim.

undeadcreature
16-11-2011, 01:42 AM
That is not defined by Law, it was defined by legal system.

The word comes from Latin meaning to seize, take, plunder, by force.

There you go again with the cherrypicking.

It ALSO means;

noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.

verb (used with object)
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.


Notice the use of the word archaic.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 01:42 AM
sounds like. is that rape too then?

Well, I suppose to avoid any confusion you would have to be careful to ensure that you make it clear you are speaking metaphorically.
Then you should be OK.
Mind you, don't take that as legal advice, this new info on rape has taken me by surprise. It requires great research.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 02:01 AM
There you go again with the cherrypicking.
This new information is worse than it first appeared.





mur·der
   [mur-der] Show IPA



verb (used with object)
6.
to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation, pronunciation, etc.: The tenor murdered the aria.

:eek:

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:07 AM
We're talking about criminal law here, and so far you have not managed to cite anything to back up your claim.

There is no such thing as criminal Law, it is made up shite. If it is your claim that criminal Law actually exists provide proof of your claim.

I cited the original meaning of the word and where it came from, I don't need legal dictionaries as it is made up shite.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:11 AM
There you go again with the cherrypicking.

It ALSO means;



Notice the use of the word archaic.

It is the original meaning of the word and not a legal meaning.

It would only be archaic in a legal sense as they do not want to define what they do to everyone as rape.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 02:11 AM
There is no such thing as criminal Law, it is made up shite. If it is your claim that criminal actually exists proved proof of your claim.
So we could also apply exactly the same argument to the FOTL "common law". That does not exist either. It is made up shite.
But, the courts do enforce criminal law.
You may not like that, but that is what happens.

I sited the original meaning of the word and where it came from, I don't need legal dictionaries as it is made up shite.
No, originally in the other thread you claimed it was defined in the Criminal Code in the manner you defined it.
I asked you a few times to post it up, I'm still waiting.

undeadcreature
16-11-2011, 02:13 AM
There is no such thing as criminal Law, it is made up shite. If it is your claim that criminal actually exists proved proof of your claim.

I sited the original meaning of the word and where it came from, I don't need legal dictionaries as it is made up shite.

Didn't stop you using one as a source though...

It is defined, that is not the point. All intercourse must be consensual for it to be legitimate. Be it sex or any other intercourse.

Here's a definition for you:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/intercourse

People in Governments are the biggest murderers in the world. Do you wish to argue that point?

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:25 AM
So we could also apply exactly the same argument to the FOTL "common law". That does not exist either. It is made up shite.
But, the courts do enforce criminal law.
You may not like that, but that is what happens.


No, originally in the other thread you claimed it was defined in the Criminal Code in the manner you defined it.
I asked you a few times to post it up, I'm still waiting.

People in the courts are criminals, they use force and intimidation that no-one else is allowed to use without being charged as a criminal.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It is derived from the Law of Harmonics, to exist non-destructively.

I said it was defined in the CC, does not make it true and correct.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 02:31 AM
I said it was defined in the CC, does not make it true and correct.

It does not make what true and correct?
You saying it was defined in the CC?

Or are you saying it is defined in the CC?
If it is, you are taking a long time to post it.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:33 AM
Didn't stop you using one as a source though...

intercourse (n.) etymonline.com
mid-15c., "communication to and fro," from O.Fr. entrecours "exchange, commerce," from L.L. intercursus "a running between, intervention," from intercursus, pp. of intercurrere "to run between," from L. inter- "between" (see inter-) + currere "to run" (see current). Meaning "sexual relations" first recorded 1798, from earlier sense "social contact and relations" (1540s)..

The meaning for intercourse have only been slightly altered, the meaning is still there. Intercourse had the meaning of a way to exchange in commerce.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:36 AM
It does not make what true and correct?
You saying it was defined in the CC?

Or are you saying it is defined in the CC?
If it is, you are taking a long time to post it.

I have already posted the meaning of the word RAPE. I don't care about legal systems at all or how those people choose to define words.

It is made up psychobabble.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 02:36 AM
So, hh your position would be that the mother in the example provided by micklemus (if you had your way) should be charged with rape?

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 02:49 AM
So, hh your position would be that the mother in the example provided by micklemus (if you had your way) should be charged with rape?

It the mother uses force against the will of the child it is rape, in legal land it is know as abuse.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 02:52 AM
It the mother uses force against the will of the child it is rape, in legal land it is know as abuse.

According to you it is rape.
Now you have to convince quite a few million to agree with you.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 03:03 AM
According to you it is rape.
Now you have to convince quite a few million to agree with you.

I don't need to convince anyone, it's the truth about that word.

rumpelstilzchen
16-11-2011, 03:10 AM
I don't need to convince anyone, it's the truth about that word.

Well you do if you want these rapists prosecuted for rape.
If you cannot convince everybody that you are right they will not be prosecuted for rape. It will be just an opinion you hold.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 03:35 AM
Well you do if you want these rapists prosecuted for rape.
If you cannot convince everybody that you are right they will not be prosecuted for rape. It will be just an opinion you hold.

I don't care about YOUR Courts and I'll defend myself against ALL would be rapists.

solzhenitsyn
16-11-2011, 03:36 AM
I don't care about YOUR Courts and I'll defend myself against ALL would be rapists.

Good luck with that. I'm afraid that the "rapists" have you very badly outnumbered.

cecil1
16-11-2011, 03:50 AM
Are you a rapist solz?

If not then you should correct your sentence to "us very badly outnumbered" and not "you very badly outnumbered" as it could be construed that you are not one of the people being outnumbered.

Freaky admittion though.

peace.

herald_holmes
16-11-2011, 04:03 AM
Good luck with that. I'm afraid that the "rapists" have you very badly outnumbered.

That's what you think..... prove it.

I know hundreds in the military and ex-military, they know what the go is and are waiting for the shite to hit before they turn their backs. I know a few on active duty now who have their own plans.

As for police, most are corrupt stains. There are a few good one's giving us information, but they are afraid to speak out while amongst the wolves.

WE out number and out gun Statanist by a long, long way and we are better trained.

solzhenitsyn
16-11-2011, 06:13 AM
Are you a rapist solz?

If not then you should correct your sentence to "us very badly outnumbered" and not "you very badly outnumbered" as it could be construed that you are not one of the people being outnumbered.

Freaky admittion though.

peace.

By "rapists", I understood herald to mean the state and the people employed by the state (civil servants, the police, the military, the courts, etc.). If that is the case, then I am not a "rapist". However I would certainly give my moral support to the democratically-elected, judicially-supervised "rapists" rather than some sort of revolution- or coup-installed theocracy.

If that is not the case, then perhaps herald could clarify what he meant?

solzhenitsyn
16-11-2011, 06:25 AM
That's what you think..... prove it.

I know hundreds in the military and ex-military, they know what the go is and are waiting for the shite to hit before they turn their backs. I know a few on active duty now who have their own plans.

As for police, most are corrupt stains. There are a few good one's giving us information, but they are afraid to speak out while amongst the wolves.

WE out number and out gun Statanist by a long, long way and we are better trained.

If you want a real revolution, I would encourage you very strongly to follow the non-violent-disobedience model of Mohandas Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, Rosa Parks, the Arab Spring, etc. That method has lead to many, many successful revolutions, rebellions and coups throughout modern history. If you use violence, I promise you that no one will be drawn to your cause and your revolution will inevitably fail.