Permaculture

[them]

If anybody is interested in permaculture, food for free, vegetable gardening and off grid living they can deposit information and ideas within this thread.

I'll start things off with Judy of the Woods.

A intelligent, independent and resourceful lady.

http://www.judyofthewoods.net/index.html

http://www.judyofthewoods.net/images/workshop_mini_intro.jpg

[madthumbs]

I think using the same idea, you could run a kerosene heater on it?

They should sell, or could we make something like a water dispenser (for animals) to keep the oil level constant.

-Big fire hazard btw. Funny that she shows pictures of it around a bunch of kindling (wicks).

[lucky884]

Excellent idea them, I love Judy of the woods btw:) in particular her veg oil lamp. I've been browsing and found lots of good stuff on this site relating to permaculture/survival:

http://www.weblife.org/


Not sure if you can run a kerosine heater on vegetable oil madthumbs, but it might be worth investigating!

[madthumbs]

Here's some excellent videos:
Farming with Nature (http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=2160)

[psychicdefender]

Tinker's Bubble (http://www.economads.com/log20020524-20020531.php) in Somerset. They have a DVD out somewhere...

Steward Woodland Community (http://www.stewardwood.org/) in Devon. Visited them and their pretty cool, they did have a planning app coming up but I haven't checked recently...

Don't forget to WWOOF (http://www.wwoof.org/)!

[them]

I think using the same idea, you could run a kerosene heater on it?

They should sell, or could we make something like a water dispenser (for animals) to keep the oil level constant.

-Big fire hazard btw. Funny that she shows pictures of it around a bunch of kindling (wicks).

Yes.

Excellent idea them, I love Judy of the woods btw:) in particular her veg oil lamp. I've been browsing and found lots of good stuff on this site relating to permaculture/survival:

http://www.weblife.org/


Not sure if you can run a kerosine heater on vegetable oil madthumbs, but it might be worth investigating!

Thats a good link. Cheers lucky :)

Here's some excellent videos:
Farming with Nature (http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=2160)

I haven't checked everything out inside that link as there is simply to much quality information to browse :eek:

Tinker's Bubble (http://www.economads.com/log20020524-20020531.php) in Somerset. They have a DVD out somewhere...

Steward Woodland Community (http://www.stewardwood.org/) in Devon. Visited them and their pretty cool, they did have a planning app coming up but I haven't checked recently...

Don't forget to WWOOF (http://www.wwoof.org/)!

Tinkers Bubble.. lol.. I have apple juice in my fridge from there!

[them]

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/main2.html

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/images/PM%20Logo.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hit1a_rlx7o

[revolutionary_jam]

Intensive Farming - Turning A Solution Into Two Problems
One of the most serious environmental problems facing us today is the erosion and degredation of our soil, and modern industrialised farming has done everything in it's power to precipitate this, turning one solution into two problems.

The natural state of affairs is thus; farms combine livestock and crops, rotating their fields so that manure from the animals replenishes that taken from the soil by arable produce. Sometimes parts of the farm are left fallow to recover and grow grass which feeds the animals. There is no soil erosion, a perfectly sustainable ecosystem and plenty of jobs for farm workers.

The current state of affairs is vastly different. Our farms are now generally specialised, concentrating totally on crop production, or meat and milk. This has divorced the natural manure fertiliser from the arable land, replacing it with chemicals that ultimatley end up washed into rivers, while at the same time turning this valuable resource into a dangerous bi-product, slurry, which is highly toxic and also causes sever pollution to rivers, streams and water supplies.

For the animals it is far worse than that. They are kept in shocking conditions in the race to produce as much meat, eggs and milk in the quickest time on the smallest amount of resources.....

Read The Rest:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.comment&friendID=267014809&blogID=335479306&ticket=MHMGCisGAQQBgjdYA4KgZTBjBgorBgEEAYI3WAMBoFU wUwIDAgABAgJmAwICAMAECMn28NRL8KtmBBD3LGBC6TbqAHB8h xLp%2BZSEBChjui7XUezai0jdZQaiTRkp49Xh56M74qqS0KZVY c4mC862omL9YDda&BlogCategoryID=0&Mytoken=02368A44-9193-4000-967FB672E714AFAF168111521

[danucrom]

I tend to see permaculture as gardening for lazy people.. Sure it has its merits but if you have a limited amount of ground you are not going to be able to feed a family if you use only permaculture methods.. A combination of permaculture and traditional gardening methods would work well.

[them]

I tend to see permaculture as gardening for lazy people.. Sure it has its merits but if you have a limited amount of ground you are not going to be able to feed a family if you use only permaculture methods.. A combination of permaculture and traditional gardening methods would work well.

That is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.

Permaculture.. do you have to use your own space exclusively?

Is there a niche for guerilla gardening?

Could you, danucrom, buy a plant from a garden center, Rosemary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary) for example, and plant it in a hedgerow before returning to harvest it? Could you? :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Rosemary_bush.jpg/800px-Rosemary_bush.jpg

[thetonic]

I tend to see permaculture as gardening for lazy people.. Sure it has its merits but if you have a limited amount of ground you are not going to be able to feed a family if you use only permaculture methods.. A combination of permaculture and traditional gardening methods would work well.

You hit the nail on da head with that one! LAZY PEEPS! LOL...

Alot is dependent upon where you are located geographically if the method will work or not

[danucrom]

That is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.

Permaculture.. do you have to use your own space exclusively?

Is there a niche for guerilla gardening?

Space isn't a problem for me, I am lucky enough to have quite a bit of it to play around with and don't really have the time to expand into guerilla gardening. I was trying to look at it from the pov of someone who has only a small plot to grow in. Guerilla gardening sounds like a good plan for someone who hasn't much space, eg planting things here and there around their locality and coming back to harvest while keeping there plot free for traditional gardening.

Could you, danucrom, buy a plant from a garden center, Rosemary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary) for example, and plant it in a hedgerow before returning to harvest it? Could you? :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Rosemary_bush.jpg/800px-Rosemary_bush.jpg

Of course...but better still plant something somewhere and let someone who doesn't have much space to work with harvest it.

[swissxtrails]

Dude you will love this link. This is a list of some hard to find books on the subjects you like available for download in .pdf format.

Please share this link with others, it is updated regularly.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/14744019/bfb3bcd6/sharing.html

:D

[tom bombadil]

Dude you will love this link. This is a list of some hard to find books on the subjects you like available for download in .pdf format.

Please share this link with others, it is updated regularly.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/14744019/bfb3bcd6/sharing.html

:D

Sweet. Thank you.

[swissxtrails]

You are welcome :)

This is what you need for multiple downloads from 4shared or rapidshare

http://jdownloader.org/home/index?s=lng_en

It's open source and it's totally free.

[liltroofer]

A lot is dependent upon where you are located geographically if the method will work or not

I agree. It also depends on the level of permaculture you are doing to determine whether it's truly lazy or not. haha!

[breezinreezin]

BIG into Permaculture. I did a course a couple of years ago in Permaculture design, but really need to get a project of the ground with some like-minded individuals. Thanks for the Judy link. It looks really interesting. I'll be checking it out fully.

[unusual_suspect]

So is anyone here living in that way? I am looking in to buying a piece of woodland as an acre or two is very cheap, the problem is that you need planning permission to live on it.

I have started researching online.

Do you reckon that you could build a low impact house in a bit of woodland you owned and that if no one complained you could just stay there? Also, if you had your own source of water would tyou have to pay for that still, then there is council tax, would you have to pay that?

[glacidtek]

U_S.... I'm thinking allong very simmilar lines....

if you can prove you are 'working' the woodland ie. growing veg/ chopping/selling wood/making charcoal.... then you are by law allowed to have a permanent structure to house all the health and safety requirements - somewhere warm and dry to store and change clothes, toilet etc....

OR

there are loads of structures that are designated as 'not- permanent structure'...... shed/teepee/caravan/boat/tree house etc.

my personal idea would be a lovely woodland growing fresh veg and living on house boat on stands.
x

[them]

Dude you will love this link. This is a list of some hard to find books on the subjects you like available for download in .pdf format.

Please share this link with others, it is updated regularly.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/14744019/bfb3bcd6/sharing.html

:D

Thanks so much for that! I had forgotten all about this thread :eek: Thanks for reviving it.

BIG into Permaculture. I did a course a couple of years ago in Permaculture design, but really need to get a project of the ground with some like-minded individuals. Thanks for the Judy link. It looks really interesting. I'll be checking it out fully.

You could investigate Tinkers Bubble (http://www.economads.com/log20020524-20020531.php) & Ragman's Lane Farm (http://www.ragmans.co.uk/). They both do courses and have good reputations. I had a really good visit to Ragmans recently.

So is anyone here living in that way? I am looking in to buying a piece of woodland as an acre or two is very cheap, the problem is that you need planning permission to live on it.

I have started researching online.

Do you reckon that you could build a low impact house in a bit of woodland you owned and that if no one complained you could just stay there? Also, if you had your own source of water would tyou have to pay for that still, then there is council tax, would you have to pay that?

U_S.... I'm thinking allong very simmilar lines....

if you can prove you are 'working' the woodland ie. growing veg/ chopping/selling wood/making charcoal.... then you are by law allowed to have a permanent structure to house all the health and safety requirements - somewhere warm and dry to store and change clothes, toilet etc....

OR

there are loads of structures that are designated as 'not- permanent structure'...... shed/teepee/caravan/boat/tree house etc.

my personal idea would be a lovely woodland growing fresh veg and living on house boat on stands.
x

I could probably be described as a smallholder. You really need to check this (http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1034341791649.html) link out. Then contrast it with some legal precedent (http://www.tlio.org.uk/chapter7/preced.html).

The planning on agricultural land can be quite flexible. I recently put up a new barn which I informed the council I was going to do in writting, as per the agricultural planning system regulations. They queried my need to use the structure for lambing but were reassured and accepted my proposal when I informed them that I would also be keeping machinery like tractors inside it!

Love the idea about the house boat on stilts! Imagine a quad of narrow boats in a square with a kitchen garden in the middle :)

[glacidtek]

THEM:

thanks for the info/links... ill sift through the info later on today.

yeah, enclosed garden with houseboats - sounds brilliant!

woodland is fairly affordable in this country....
http://www.woodlands.co.uk/

although, france is very affordable for run down farms:
http://www.french-property.com/vp/nv/ds/poitou-charentes-vienne-couhe-barn/id/225636/

[unusual_suspect]

I would love to purchase land with some likeminded individualks to create a permaculture based community.

I reckon this would be a good way of living as different people would have different skills and areas of expertise and you could get back to more of a bartering based economy.

[breezinreezin]

I would love to purchase land with some likeminded individualks to create a permaculture based community.

I reckon this would be a good way of living as different people would have different skills and areas of expertise and you could get back to more of a bartering based economy.

Very difficult to do in England though, due to the cost of land and the jobsworth mentality of local councils. Easier to do on the continent and cheaper. I know a French guy who started a community near Poitiers. I haven't had the chance to go and have look, but might get there this summer some time.

Permaculture is philosophically sound in so many areas. It's about people care as much as the environment and, the part that I love, doing as little as possible for the greatest yields--in all areas of life:D

[unusual_suspect]

Very difficult to do in England though, due to the cost of land and the jobsworth mentality of local councils. Easier to do on the continent and cheaper. I know a French guy who started a community near Poitiers. I haven't had the chance to go and have look, but might get there this summer some time.

Permaculture is philosophically sound in so many areas. It's about people care as much as the environment and, the part that I love, doing as little as possible for the greatest yields--in all areas of life:D

The cost of land is not too much, I have looked in to it.

I would want to go and live on it anyway, what is the worst they could do? Could you not just effectively squat on the land you own?

[breezinreezin]

The cost of land is not too much, I have looked in to it.

I would want to go and live on it anyway, what is the worst they could do? Could you not just effectively squat on the land you own?

Well I don't know what's too much for you, but land in the UK is comparitively expensive, to say France. If you really wanted to go bargain basement, with a nice plot of land, with house as well, Bulgaria's the place to buy. 5k will buy you a nice little smallholding over there

If you decide to build a dwelling on agricultural land, you'll get it pulled down eventually and in between just get lots of hassle from officials. It's no way to live.

Where did I say I had land:confused:

[unusual_suspect]

Well I don't know what's too much for you, but land in the UK is comparitively expensive, to say France. If you really wanted to go bargain basement, with a nice plot of land, with house as well, Bulgaria's the place to buy. 5k will buy you a nice little smallholding over there

If you decide to build a dwelling on agricultural land, you'll get it pulled down eventually and in between just get lots of hassle from officials. It's no way to live.

Where did I say I had land:confused:

When I said the land you own I was being hypothetical.

The cost of re-locating is too much, especially when children are involved. Otherwise I would have emigrated to Scandinavia by now!

I have seen 6 - 8 acres of woodland going for 20K and less, if there were a few people that would work out very cheap.

It's outrageous that you can't just buy a bit and live on it :mad:

[glacidtek]

breezinreezin:
do you have any links for bulgarian smallholding/property/land?

[breezinreezin]

breezinreezin:
do you have any links for bulgarian smallholding/property/land?

Yep here: http://www.thetravelbug.org/

Rachel set herself up over there a few years ago and buys up bargains through her Bulgarian contacts. There are some neat properties there, with plenty of land and scope for a community. I'd be happy to invest in a project if enough strongly, motivated individuals wanted to get together and give it a go. I mean crikey, if , say 6 people stumped up a grand each, we'd have a nice little smallholding there, with potential for a decent permaculture project:)

[gripit]

If you decide to build a dwelling on agricultural land, you'll get it pulled down eventually and in between just get lots of hassle from officials. It's no way to live.



Ya, that's the prob for any land type. However, depending on which country you live in, for instance Canada; if you build a dwelling under 107 square feet, there isn't building permits or codes you have to adhere to. You can also build them tall to have loft space. If I was to do it, I would have four 10X10's, all 14 ft tall; one living room, one bedroom, one kitch/bath, one storage. After all, how much space does one really need? :)

These prefab kits look awesome...Summerwood Homes (http://www.summerwood.com/cdn/products/cabins/index.html)

Tiny House Blog (http://tinyhouseblog.com/stick-built/summerwood-tiny-cabins/)

[elixirsoo]

Dude you will love this link. This is a list of some hard to find books on the subjects you like available for download in .pdf format.

Please share this link with others, it is updated regularly.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/14744019/bfb3bcd6/sharing.html

:D

Wonderful resource, thank you. :)