PDA

View Full Version : Grey Wolf : The Escape of Adolf


januspolanski
18-10-2011, 11:05 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050137/Hitler-escape-theory-Leading-historian-says-Nazi-leader-fled-Argentina.html

Basically two British Authors Gerard Williams and Simon Dunstan have written a book in which they refute that Hitler shot himself in 1945 and instead fled to Argentina where he lived until his death in 1962.

I know this has come up plenty of times before but may be worth a read.

Some of the comments seem encouraging.

If other high ranking Germans did escape to Argentina then why not the Fuhrer himself?

Interestingly the Skull held by the Soviets has been DNA tested and proved to be a Woman's skull.

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 11:10 AM
Interestingly the Skull held by the Soviets has been DNA tested and proved to be a Woman's skull

Link?

A link with some convincing information would be nice.

januspolanski
18-10-2011, 11:12 AM
Link?

A link with some convincing information would be nice.

Was a programme about it on Discovery Channel if I remember correctly. Im sure you could google it.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 11:28 AM
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1940/ihavepositiveproofthath.jpg

http://fouryoureyesonlyoo7.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/hitweb2.pdf

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 02:05 PM
The documetary is here. (I have to say, I absolutely hate the tabloid presentation of that History Channel documentary. Why can't they just do it straight? Detestable).

Hitler's Escape - YouTube

The Russians only mentioned the found skull story in 1968 so it's dubious anyway.

As for the question, did Hitler escape and remain anonymous afterwards?

I strongly doubt it would have been possible for him.

I can't believe he could have lived quietly in a remote village until he was 73, fathering children, living on looted gold and silver.

I'd like to see some extraordinary evidence and the explanation of how that was possible.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 02:12 PM
I'd like to see some extraordinary evidence and the explanation of how that was possible.

There is a wealth of hinting evidence for that, if you understand German.
However, it cannot be proven, due to the missing peace treaty implying vast consequences if revealed.
Its one of the best kept secrets in the world.

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 02:21 PM
There is a wealth of hinting evidence for that, if you understand German.

The most famous man in the world in 1945 goes into hiding in a remote Argentinian village?

You'd... think... someone... would have said... something... this... was.. you know... Adolf Hitler... you'd think.. after taking over half the world and gobbing off for 25 years .. that living in a wooden hut, bringing up kids, paid for from his stash of looted (presumably jewish) gold and silver, keeping stum would be quite difficult.

Give us the bestest piece of "hinting" evidence translated into english.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 02:24 PM
The most famous man in the world in 1945 goes into hiding in a remote Argentinian village?

You'd... think... someone... would have said... something... this... was.. you know... Adolf Hitler... you'd think.. after taking over half the world and gobbing off for 25 years .. that living in a wooden hut, bringing up kids, paid for from his stash of looted (presumably jewish) gold and silver, keeping stum would be quite difficult.

Give us the bestest piece of "hinting" evidence translated into english.

No, I will not translate anything. You are free to believe what you want, even the UK propaganda.
Its is you who asked for evidence, I pointed you in the direction where to find it. I can tell you that an evacuation had been worked out before the war ended. There is clear evidence of a submarine fleet leaving Kiel, about up to 100000 scientists and engineers missing(not MIA or KIA!), and about 100 submarines are missing in the records of several naval warfare books.
Where they went is not certain, I did not say any Argentina.

But lets turn it around, show me the best evidence you have that he died in Berlin. ;)

And why would he appoint Admiral Dönitz to be his successor? A navy admiral? Highly unusual, considering invading armies.

tatoodbeergut
18-10-2011, 02:39 PM
No, I will not translate anything. You are free to believe what you want, even the UK propaganda.
Its is you who asked for evidence, I pointed you in the direction where to find it. I can tell you that an evacuation had been worked out before the war ended. There is clear evidence of a submarine fleet leaving Kiel, about up to 100000 scientists and engineers missing(not MIA or KIA!), and about 100 submarines are missing in the records of several naval warfare books.
Where they went is not certain, I did not say any Argentina.

But lets turn it around, show me the best evidence you have that he died in Berlin. ;)

do you have a hitler shrine or some shit :D

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 02:52 PM
No, I will not translate anything. You are free to believe what you want, even the UK propaganda.
Asking for evidence is bad then.
OK.
You know how this works with the Holocaust don't you?

Its is you who asked for evidence, I pointed you in the direction where to find it.
No you didn't you said it's all in German and you refuse to present the single best piece.

I can tell you that an evacuation had been worked out before the war ended. There is clear evidence of a submarine fleet leaving Kiel, about up to 100000 scientists and engineers missing(not MIA or KIA!), and about 100 submarines are missing in the records of several naval warfare books.
Where they went is not certain, I did not say any Argentina.
So not only Hitler disappeared but an army of 100,000 scientists and engineers with him?
Never to be heard of again?
Nor the submarines (all 100 of them)?

By the way.. that's 1,000 scientists and engineers per sub. Were they experimenting with time and relative dimensions in space?

They did a remarkable job keeping this quiet.

But lets turn it around, show me the best evidence you have that he died in Berlin. ;)
I have none, but the lack of any Hitler activity after April 30th 1945 is pretty convincing to me.

Go on... give us your best evidence.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 02:55 PM
Asking for evidence is bad then.
OK.
You know how this works with the Holocaust don't you?


No you didn't you said it's all in German and you refuse to present the single best piece.


So not only Hitler disappeared but an army of 100,000 scientists and engineers with him?
Never to be heard of again?
Nor the submarines (all 100 of them)?

By the way.. that's 1,000 scientists and engineers per sub. Were they experimenting with time and relative dimensions in space?

They did a remarkable job keeping this quiet.


I have none, but the lack of any Hitler activity after April 30th 1945 is pretty convincing to me.

Go on... give us your best evidence.

lol

Die stupid, I have no time to waste on semantic spin doctoring.

Learn German or get yourself someone who likes to translate for you, or find appropriate sources in english.
All you have is basically soviet myth, it wasn't the UK or US taking Berlin. :rolleyes:

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 03:01 PM
OK, you don't want to back up your claims.

Anyone would think they went to the Antartic and build a secret base there.

Oh hang on... is that what you're selling today?

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:05 PM
OK, you don't want to back up your claims.

Anyone would think they went to the Antartic and build a secret base there.

Oh hang on... is that what you're selling today?

Why don't you back up he died in Berlin first?

It is not my problem you only speak english. It is yours.
Considering the UK, US, Fr and Russians have never signed a peace treaty with Germany, you don't find it suspicious this information is almost not present in english while people have been murdered and silenced in Germany?

As I said, get off your high horse, english language is a big tool for the hoaxers.

octopusrex
18-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Why don't you back up he died in Berlin first?

It is not my problem you only speak english. It is yours.
Considering the UK, US, Fr and Russians have never signed a peace treaty with Germany, you don't find it suspicious this information is almost not present in english while people have been murdered and silenced in Germany?

As I said, get off your high horse, english language is a big tool for the hoaxers.

Dass stimmt.
Carajo tiene razon el chico.;);)

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:11 PM
Dass stimmt.
Carajo tiene razon el chico.;);)

You guys must be laughing your asses off while you can draw from spanish sources. :)

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 03:38 PM
And why would he appoint Admiral Dönitz to be his successor? A navy admiral? Highly unusual, considering invading armies.

Donitz was about the only high ranking military officer he both respected and trusted in the last years of the war.

Seems logical that he would appoint him.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:38 PM
Quote: magazine "The New Age", No. 20, 09/05/1980, Huter Verlag, Munich:

"On 02/05/1945, six days before the German surrender on 8/5/1945, a U-boat convoy ran from Kristiansund, Norway, which consisted of approximately 120 of the new electric submarines (range 30,000 km) and several giant cargo submarines. At aboard the E-class submarines were out of the only young, without living relatives, existing ordinary occupation
(a) young SS men and Hitler Youth leader,
(b) many young army nurses and BDM girls
which (a and b) also consistently possessed no living family left, and
(c) some of the personalities of the German leadership (partly including families), which were still able to escape in time before the Allies. "

"Of course, such a large German U-boat fleet did not escape the attention of the Allies, so that the German U-boats, as they wanted to advance in the open Atlantic, were attacked by a considerable Western Allied naval force between Greenland and Iceland.

but thanks to two new weapons systems, previously unknown to the Allies, the secret German U-boat armada did not only break through the blockade of the Allied powers, but devastatingly beat them to their massive horror . One of the few survivors of this battle was the captain of a British destroyer ... one of the Allied hushed up fiasco of their armed forces ... "

Can Mr A imagine that there are families still missing relatives after 66 years, neither reported MIA or KIA?

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Donitz was about the only high ranking military officer he both respected and trusted in the last years of the war.

Seems logical that he would appoint him.

Nope, its highly illogic to appoint an admiral if armies invade your country, and it was against german military tradition.
What about eg Rommel, tons of capable army generals.

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 03:42 PM
What about eg Rommel, tons of capable army generals.

Erm, Rommel died in 1944...

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:45 PM
Erm, Rommel died in 1944...

Ok, he died, still capable army generals left, who would have been the first in chain of command, not a navy admiral. Say why not General Weidling, the Hitler appointed commander of Berlin for final battle?

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 03:53 PM
Hitler had lost all faith in his army generals. This had been happening since the winter of '41 and the failed attempt to take Moscow. He blamed them for every defeat the German army suffered after that, and there were many.

Donitz was a proponent of the submarine based approach to naval warfare, which Hitler also felt was the correct doctrine. Raeder, whom Donitz succeeded as Navy Commander was a supporter of a large surface fleet, with which Hitler eventually came to disagree.

So, Donitz will have been, most likely, the only high ranking military official whom Hitler trusted. He knew that the Third Reich was finished anyway, so it was a purely cosmetic appointment.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 03:58 PM
Hitler had lost all faith in his army generals. This had been happening since the winter of '41 and the failed attempt to take Moscow. He blamed them for every defeat the German army suffered after that, and there were many.

Donitz was a proponent of the submarine based approach to naval warfare, which Hitler also felt was the correct doctrine. Raeder, whom Donitz succeeded as Navy Commander was a supporter of a large surface fleet, with which Hitler eventually came to disagree.

So, Donitz will have been, most likely, the only high ranking military official whom Hitler trusted. He knew that the Third Reich was finished anyway, so it was a purely cosmetic appointment.

Or...

According Peillard "History of the U-boat war" on S.375 he counted 404 U-boats. Among the Salewski of in "The German Naval Staff 1939-1945 indicated 551 U-boats missing 147 U-boats ... (S.495).

The balance of Peillard:
27 sunk by the Royal Air Force (1.4.-05.08.1945) -
- 221 are said to have sunk in May 1945 itself
- 156 are intact have fallen into English hands (Royal Navy)
- this is a total of 404
147 U-boats missing in the balance sheets (S.495).

Either Doenitz at 23.2. with 551 U-boats, exaggerated, or 147 U-boats have been used for other purposes (S.496).

Doenitz himself controls even at a higher speed U-boats, as he indicates in his book "10 Years and 20 Days" on S.350 is a production of U-boats:
- 1943: an average of 23.6 U-boats per month
- 1944: an average of 19.5 U-boats per month
- 1945 January to March, an average of 26 U-boats per month

Which results in total 595 new U-boats

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure what your quoted passage above has to do with what I said.

I'm not arguing about U-Boat numbers, I'm just saying that Donitz would have been a perfectly logical choice to succeed Hitler.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:06 PM
I'm not sure what your quoted passage above has to do with what I said.

I'm not arguing about U-Boat numbers, I'm just saying that Donitz would have been a perfectly logical choice to succeed Hitler.

Not in the German military tradition. is what I am saying.

He broke with that.
The numbers of Uboats produced in the last months of the war suggests that the German military completely switched their efforts to the navy, ie escape of certain people. It does not make sense to intensify the uboat war if enemy ground troops invade your home.

bjornyvan
18-10-2011, 04:07 PM
tinyint

Very interesting stuff. But I wonder: what about Hitler's bodyguard - didn't he confirm the official story about Hitler dying in the bunker?

I'm aware of some of the other stuff: that the bone fragments kept in Russia turned out to not match Hitler's DNA after all, and that there's really no concrete evidence of Hitler having died in that bunker. And I've read a lenghty article in the Nexus Magazine which proved a good case for that Hitler was flown out of Germany in the very last days of the war. I've heard some stuff from the book "Hitler's escape" and so on.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:12 PM
tinyint

Very interesting stuff. But I wonder: what about Hitler's bodyguard - didn't he confirm the official story about Hitler dying in the bunker?

I'm aware of some of the other stuff: that the bone fragments kept in Russia turned out to not match Hitler's DNA after all, and that there's really no concrete evidence of Hitler having died in that bunker. And I've read a lenghty article in the Nexus Magazine which proved a good case for that Hitler was flown out of Germany in the very last days of the war. I've heard some stuff from the book "Hitler's escape" and so on.

He most probably took a last flight from Berlin to Kiel, to Kristiansund....eventually barcelona ...
Remember, the surrender was near Kiel.

The Soviets did twice an investigation, one after the war(already confirming a woman's skull) and again iirc in the late 60ies to early 70ies, confirming again. I would have to took up the years of the official soviet investigation tough.

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 04:13 PM
Not in the German military tradition. is what I am saying.

No, it wasn't, but it happened nonetheless.

It does not make sense to intensify the uboat war if enemy ground troops invade your home.

It does if you are trying to cut their supply line both across the Atlantic and the English Channel, which is what they were trying to do. Remember also that Hitler had completely lost it by the later stages of the war. He was a broken man, depressed and in the early stages of Parkinson's disease. Unfortunately, he was also supreme commander of the armed forces, and every decision of significance had to go through him, due to the shambolic way in which the Nazi party administered itself, and the country. The Russians were closing in on the bunker, and he still thought that Germany could win.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:16 PM
It does if you are trying to cut their supply line both across the Atlantic and the English Channel, which is what they were trying to do. Remember also that Hitler had completely lost it by the later stages of the war. He was a broken man, depressed and in the early stages of Parkinson's disease. Unfortunately, he was also supreme commander of the armed forces, and every decision of significance had to go through him, due to the shambolic way in which the Nazi party administered itself, and the country. The Russians were closing in on the bunker, and he still thought that Germany could win.

Sources for the psychological status of him?
Can you even prove he was in the bunker, and not a double?

I agree, Dr Morell certainly handled him with drugs in the late stage.

oiram
18-10-2011, 04:17 PM
Anyway never say never! ......
With luck one day we know the truth because the dead are rising out of there graves!

On the side which gives a lot of info many links have been pornorised .... I wonder why? >>> Standard practice by the once playing the game!!!

Still more plausible than any Nubiru, Alien or Lizard story??

I'm not the one who made the Rothschild connection; but still the other stuff is interesting!


Fresh doubts over Hitler's death after tests on bullet hole skull reveal it belonged to a woman
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ugl3ZZaVUlk/S1kgrAgeJSI/AAAAAAAAAug/z7oE4L6gEfo/s400/hitlerskull_slideshow_604x500.jpg
Where is he? The skull the Soviets found in 1946 is not Adolf Hitler's, tests show

'We know the skull corresponds to a woman between the ages of 20 and 40,' said University of Connecticut archeologist Nick Bellantoni.

'The bone seemed very thin; male bone tends to be more robust. And the sutures where the skull plates come together seemed to correspond to someone under 40.' Hitler was 56 in April 1945.

Mr Bellantoni flew to Moscow to take DNA swabs at the State Archive and was also shown the bloodstained remains of the bunker sofa on which Hitler and Braun were believed to have killed themselves.

'I had the reference photos the Soviets took of the sofa in 1945 and I was seeing the exact same stains on the fragments of wood and fabric in front of me, so I knew I was working with the real thing,' he said.

His astonishing results have been broadcast in the U.S. in a History Channel documentary titled Hitler's Escape.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216455/Hitlers-skull-really-womans-Fresh-doubts-death-tests-bullet-hole.html



http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/german2.gif
Argentina - Bariloche Was Hitler
And Eva Braun's Final Refuge
From Scott Corrales
IHU Las Ultimas Noticias
(Santiago de Chile)
1-3-4

** German submarines rescued Nazi officials and brought them to the Americas. The same was done for Hitler.**

BUENOS AIRES (EFE news agency) -- Adolf Hitler lived in Patagonia after fleeing Germany in 1945, claims Argentinean journalist Abel Basti in a tour-guide style book which discloses the locations in the Andean foothills which served as a refuge for several former Nazi leaders.

Hitler and his lover Eva Braun did not commit suicide--rather, they fled to Argentinean shores aboard a submarine and lived for many years in the vicinity of San Carlos de Bariloche, a tourist site and ski haven some 1350 km southwest of Buenos Aires, according to the journalist.

In his book "Bariloche Nazi-Guía Turística", which shall go on sale next week, Basti reproduces documents, affidavits, photogrpahs and blueprints aimed at steering the reader (or visitor) to the sites that sheltered Hitler, Martin Bormann, Joseph Mengele and Adolf Eichman. He is displeased when asked if his book challenges the official story on the Hitler/Braun suicide, arguing that the corpses of Hitler and his lover were never found, as is the case with other Nazis who allegedly committed suicide. "The only official story is the report made General Zhukov (commander of the Soviet army that occupied Berlin) to the Kremlin, stating that Hitler and several Nazi leaders had escaped, presumably to Spain or Argentina, and this is what Stalin advised the U.S. government," he retorted.

Basti's book includes a photo of the Incalco Ranch, which means in the native dialect "near the water", located in Villa la Angostura on the shores of Lake Nahuel Huapi, 80 km north of Bariloche. This was the refuge chosen by Argentinean Nazis to hide Hitler and Eva Braun. This residence, set amid a pine forest and which can only be reached by boat or hydroplane, belonged to Argentine businessman Jorge Antonio, one of the most trusted men of three-times president Juan Domingo Perón (1946-1955 and 1973-1974).

Basti makes mention of Rudolph Fraude, son of Ludwig Fraude, the German millionaire, as a key player -- in his capacity as Perón's secretary -- in placing former Nazis in Argentina, among them Eichmann, who was captured in 1960 outside Buenos Aires by Israeli commandos. He was executed 2 years later in Israel.

The book's author, having worked on several Nazi-related investigations for European television networks, claims that Hitler also lived at Hacienda San Ramon, 10 km east of Bariloche, which belonged at the time to Schaumberg-Lippe principality.

The epic distance that exists between the likelihood of Hitler and his lieutenants having escaped Berlin and taken refuge in Patagonia is shortened, accoridng to Basti, by the wave of German submarines that reached the shores of Southern Argentina after the 2nd World War. "There is numerous and reliable evidence that Nazis fled to Argentina, coinciding with the arrival of Nazi subs in Patagonia," he noted, recalling the "vital assistance" offered by Perón's government at the time to "shelter the Fuhrer's henchmen in the country."

Basti, who lives in Bariloche and initiated his research on the relocation of Nazis to this picturesque city, claims to have accounts of passengers aboard the Nazi subs that reached Patagonia -- accounts which shall consitute the basis of a second book in the works.

Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, IHU. Special thanks to Liliana Núńez Orellana.

http://www.rense.com/general47/refuge.htm
The writer, Abel Basti in his book "Bariloche Nazi Tour Guide" published in July 2004 says Hitler lived in Villa Angostura near San Carlos de Bariloche, 1350km away from Buenos Aires where Bormann, Eichmann, Josef Mengele also lived since 1945-46 till 1957 according to Basti. The land belongs to an Argentina businessman and it can be reached only by the boat. Eichmann was there, however, he was arrested in Buenos Aires by Israeli in 1960. Meanwhile Hitler and others seemed to have moved to a mountain village named Hacienda San Ramon. Josef Mengele was allegedly responsible for human experiment in Auschwitz was in Argentina, then, moved to Brazil where he proclaimed himself a doctor and died there in 1979. His death was reported in newspaper in 1980 for which Jewish group made a complaint to Brazilian government for ignoring his existence in Brazil.

http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/newversion/hitlerinargentine.htm Mae Brussell's World Watchers International
Bibliography sheet for tape #794 February 23, 1987 Side 1

WILL PRESIDENT REAGAN RELEASE NAZI RUDOLF HESS? WHY IS A MEMBER OF HITLER'S YOUTH COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SPEECH WRITER FOR REAGAN? WHAT ARE THE LINKS OF NSC FRITZ KRAEMER, HENRY KISSINGER, ALEX HAIG, TO AP HAL BUELL AND JOHN KOEHLER? USIA CHARLES WICK HAS LONG WORKED, HIRED NAZIS.


NSC ADVISOR FRANK CARLUCCI STILL COVERING UP THE SAME TEAM, DRUGS, PENTAGON CONNECTIONS.
1. Jack Anderson, MH., SFC 2/23/87 "PENTAGON AIDE'S 'GOOD FRIEND'"
Assistant Defense Secretary RICHARD ARMITAGE.
Subject of investigation, working with HIGH-LEVEL ORGANIZED CRIME FIGURE, D.C.
Vietnamese refugee Nguyet O'Rourke, ARMITAGE, REAGAN'S COMMISSION ON ORGANIZED CRIME. FRANK CARLUCCI, NSC, told H. ROSS PEROT, to end inquiry, "ARMITAGE OF VALUE TO PENTAGON".

2. WSJ 1/1/87, Jonathan Kiwtney, "NSC CHIEF's TIES TO MEN CITED IN IRAN CRISIS".

FRANK CARLUCCI, deputy defense secretary in 1982. Overrode Pentagon's general counsel, "personally rescued Gen. RICHARD SECORD, ERICH VON MARBOD, chief arms-sales official."

SECORD, VON MARBOD worked with CIA THOMAS CLINES, ALBERT HAKIM, EDWIN WILSON, Navy Intell. Carlucci retired Pentagon 1982, hired VON MARBOD, Sears World Trade, weapons deals.

CNN NEWS 1:30 AM, FEBRUARY 20, 1987, "ADOLF HITLER WAS BURIED IN ARGENTINA JANUARY 1987" Max Gregorcic, friend Juan Aquilera

Mendoza, Argentina. MAX GREGORCIC, "HITLER didn't die in bunker in Germany, and EVA BRAUN is still alive." Proof of Hitler's activities, paintings, available.

Burial registration in a cemetery in PALMIRO, 30 miles east of Mendoza. Close to SANTIAGO, CHILE. (No wonder Kraemer, Kissinger, Haig put GEN. A PINOCHET IN POWER)

SAN JOSE MERCURY, THE SAME DAY, FEBRUARY 20/87, WAS THE BODY HITLER'S?"
"The teeth of corpse DON'T MATCH fuhrer's pictures"

1. Two lower bridges in corpse, NOT INSTALLED BY HITLER'S dentist when questioned.
2. No evidence of root canal in corpse, DENTIST PERFORMED ROOT CANAL.
3. Natural teeth on corpse, DENTIST SAID HITLER'S LOWER RIGHT TOOTH WAS PORCELAIN.
4. Gaps on autopsy report not present on HITLER'S DENTAL RECORD.

DR. ROBERT DORION, DIRECTOR OF FORENSIC DENTISTRY FOR MINISTRY OF SOLICITOR GENERAL, QUEBEC.
Information presented last week to AMERICAN ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES.

"HITLER'S MISTRESS MAY HAVE ESCAPED BERLIN BUNKER" World Watchers 1981, MH 11/8/81

Eva Braun dental evidence uncovered, dental technician admitted "gold bridge identified on corpse as Braun's never installed on time, not in her mouth."

MARTIN BORMANN, aides with HITLER, BRAUN, gave accounts of their "death", cyanide. Autopsy May 18, 1945, military hospital in Berlin, "concluded both died".

Fireproof porcelain crowns never found on body, remains, wouldn't burn.
"EVA BRAUN, Bunker, died of shrapnel wounds, hemorrhaging" vs. Cyanide, no wounds.

ERROL FLYNN, RONALD REAGAN, THE HOLLYWOOD YEARS. Charles Higham, "ERROL FLYNN, UNTOLD STORY"

1940, Flynn with Reagan, "SANTA FE TRAIL".
1942, Flynn with Reagan, "DESPERATE JOURNEY".

Flynn, in Gestapo with Dr. Erban, traveling between pictures with NAZIS IN MEXICO, BAHAMAS WITH DUKE AND DUCHESS OF WINDSOR, ALEX WENNER GREN, associates of RUDOLF HESS, the man who mapped out SOUTH AMERICA, ANTARCTICA, AS NAZI BASES FOR 1000 year Reich.

http://www.maebrussell.com/Bibliography%20Sheets/794s1.html

Rockefeller tells FBI to investigate President Bush!!
We fight for Standard Oil!!
http://www.reformation.org/rockefeller-investigates-bush.html

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 04:24 PM
Sources for the psychological status of him?

You could try reading up on WWII history, and there are many excellent biographies of Hitler available, which provide source material. The fact that you thought that Rommel could have succeeded Hitler shows that your knowledge of WWII is not what it could be.

Can you even prove he was in the bunker, and not a double?

No, and I'm not arguing that point. I'm just saying that Donitz was a perfectly reasonable choice to succeed him, for the reasons I have outlined.

I agree, Dr Morell certainly handled him with drugs in the late stage.

28 pills a day in fact, for years.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:29 PM
You could try reading up on WWII history, and there are many excellent biographies of Hitler available, which provide source material. The fact that you thought that Rommel could have succeeded Hitler shows that your knowledge of WWII is not what it could be.


Done that.
I don't find victors books on their eternal enemy credible.
There is too much nonsense out in english, even from licensed historians.


No, and I'm not arguing that point. I'm just saying that Donitz was a perfectly reasonable choice to succeed him, for the reasons I have outlined.


Its absolutely not if you know the full picture, or the other way round it is, but not for the reasons you give.


28 pills a day in fact, for years.

Again, credibility...

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Done that.


Oh dear.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the comment he made about Rommel some moments ago.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:33 PM
Oh dear.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the comment he made about Rommel some moments ago.

Ah, cherry picking on one fault, while the emphasis was on capable generals.

What are your honourable gentlemen?

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Ah, cherry picking on one fault, while the emphasis was on capable generals.

What are your honourable gentlemen?

It's a phrase used in the House of Commons.

I'm happy to talk about WWII history all day long if you like, on any aspect of it.

The only point I was arguing was that of your assertion that Donitz was appointed because he helped Hitler escape rather than he was really the only logical choice.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 04:49 PM
It's a phrase used in the House of Commons.

I'm happy to talk about WWII history all day long if you like, on any aspect of it.

The only point I was arguing was that of your assertion that Donitz was appointed because he helped Hitler escape rather than he was really the only logical choice.

You have not addressed why an admiral was appointed as successor instead of army or airforce general, the war was already fought at home.

As I said, its a logical appointment because you prepare for the war after the war. But its illogic to appoint a navy admiral if you basically fight for survival on the ground and air, not sea.
So why not eg General Weidling?

10/07/1945 and 17/08/1945
The two German U-boats U-530 and U-997 result in Argentina
What happened in the meantime, remains unknown. Heinz Schaeffer, commander of U-997, indicates during interrogation that he was just pointlessly driving around in the sea (S.498).


"The German Navy has still to meet in the future, a special task ... The German Navy knows all hiding places of the seas, and it will be easy to bring the leader in extreme emergencies to where he can make his final preparations in peace. "

Dönitz, addressing Marine cadets in October 1944 in Laboe near Kiel

"The German U-boat fleet is proud to have built an earthly paradise, an impregnable fortress for the Fuhrer, somewhere in the world."
Mossad agent Dr. Michael Bar-Zohar, "The Avengers", p.103


Make of it what you wish.

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 05:03 PM
You have not addressed why an admiral was appointed as successor instead of army or airforce general, the war was already fought at home.

Yes I have, and in some detail.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Yes I have, and in some detail.

Your detail applies for 1944 and earlier but not 1945, when they were overrun from all sides. An admiral is simply not fitting because of the command structure of OKW(Wehrmacht supreme command)
It simply does not make sense to try to cut allied supply lines anymore, all resources are needed on the ground, but not to produce a record of new boats.

shauneroo
18-10-2011, 05:10 PM
Your detail applies for 1944 and earlier but not 1945, when they were overrun from all sides. An admiral is simply not fitting because of the command structure of OKW(Wehrmacht supreme command)
It simply does not make sense to try to cut allied supply lines anymore.

Sigh.

Hitler, for the most part, wasn't making sense anymore.

Oh, and I know what OKW stands for, but thanks for the pointer.

Your WWII knowledge is clearly greater than mine.

tinyint
18-10-2011, 05:13 PM
Sigh.

Hitler, for the most part, wasn't making sense anymore.

Oh, and I know what OKW stands for, but thanks for the pointer.

Your WWII knowledge is clearly greater than mine.

I do not compete with you, I present reasonable objections to the standard story as it goes.

OKW may be known to you, but we still write on an english forum, right?
So not everybody is familiar with it?

crashedfridge
18-10-2011, 05:14 PM
I saw this also on a website last month but cannot remeber its name but here is another one for some reason the links aren't working http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19389/53/ OH! i see, nice improvement

hadaka_jimmy
18-10-2011, 05:15 PM
David Irving states that Hitler did definitely die in the bunker.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/docs/death/CorpseID2.html

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Why don't you back up he died in Berlin first?

Because it's not an extraordinary claim.

There are witnesses to it.

And after 30th April 1945 the world's gobbiest dictator with a fanatical religio fan base was never heard from again.

Unless he set up a secret base with his 100,000 scientists and submarines in the Antartic?

That is what you were inferring earlier was it not?

drakul
18-10-2011, 05:30 PM
Because it's not an extraordinary claim.

There are witnesses to it.

And after 30th April 1945 the world's gobbiest dictator with a fanatical religio fan base was never heard from again.

Unless he set up a secret base with his 100,000 scientists and submarines in the Antartic?

That is what you were inferring earlier was it not?


One morning you wake up and realize the US did not go to the moon, Oswald did not shoot Kennedy and Hitler did not die in the Berlin bunker. Why? Because it is no longer logical and we are not so naive anymore.

Over 40 years has passed and the US has done absolutely nothing in terms of manned space flight to other planets, let alone been back to the moon.

When you study the Vatican RAT LINES in which the worst Nazi killers were siphoned out of Germany and Croatia and disappeared into South America - you think - Why not Hitler? If these 2 bit genocidal cowards were thought important enough to be spirited out of Europe (with the OK of the Allies of course) - then why not Hitler?

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 07:52 PM
then why not Hitler?

Because the world is full of bullshit.

We should call the planet "Bullshit".

You could provide some evidence though about Hitler.

That normally goes a long way to convincing people that it's not bullshit.

You see... I know... call me naive... I think the claim that Hitler took the Hitler Youth and 100,000 scientists and engineers (and presumably a whole shitload of logistical people and sex slaves) to the Antartic to set up a secret base is... well... a bad fucking Z Movie Hollywood plot.

Come on.. get real.

sparkplug
18-10-2011, 08:00 PM
Google Father Krespo or Crespo. That man is supposedly Hitler after surgery, and the Vatican helped him to suddenly appear in Argentina with all his art work.

Stalin said that Hitler had escaped to Argentina as well.

It is claimed that in order for Hitler to be allowed to escape that he authorised the atomic bombs being given to America. The same bombs that were dropped on Japan. Not sure if that's true but you never know.

yass
18-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by Nym
Nym
User ID: 246272
Germany
6/3/2007 3:30 PM

I met Hitler in 1967

On the outskirts of Ascension, Paraguay.

I was working as a junior rep for an oil company at the time and I was on leave for two weeks, just bumming around Uruguay and Paraguay, and one of the guys I knew at Procter & Gamble said I should come up and meet him at this dinner party they were having and prepare to have my mind blown.

Hitler was one of the nicest guys I ever met. He was very frail at the time but his English and his manners were perfect. He kept asking me about my favorite hobby (photography) and he said he would give me an old Leica he had, which he would send on to me at my main address in Montevideo. Never arrived though.

I have no idea when he died. 1970 in Argentina, rumor has it.

Thought you might like to know .... Just an oldie on his way out with cancer making a small internet confession before the curtain drops. :-)

Read more at http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1059493611&postcount=87

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 08:16 PM
I was working as a junior rep for an oil company at the time and I was on leave for two weeks, just bumming around Uruguay and Paraguay, and one of the guys I knew at Procter & Gamble said I should come up and meet him at this dinner party they were having and prepare to have my mind blown.

Seriously.

Mr Junior Rep Nobody having "come and see" dinner parties with Hitler.

FFS.

This is up there with J E Hoover having sex with boys in front of strangers dressed as a woman at parties in NYC.

Anyway.. he was at his base in the Antartic helping the AntiClaus create all those evil little christmas toys that stopped working on boxing day.

And you can't prove he wasn't.

eddieb
18-10-2011, 08:40 PM
Seriously.

Mr Junior Rep Nobody having "come and see" dinner parties with Hitler.

FFS.

This is up there with J E Hoover having sex with boys in front of strangers dressed as a woman at parties in NYC.

Anyway.. he was at his base in the Antartic helping the AntiClaus create all those evil little christmas toys that stopped working on boxing day.

And you can't prove he wasn't.

Not so far fetched. Please don't think this frivolous, but I have seen pictures of J.edgar in drag. It was several years ago and I cannot remember where, but the photos were Black and White . Looked like they were taken in the 30s'.

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Not so far fetched. Please don't think this frivolous, but I have seen pictures of J.edgar in drag.

Seriously, no you didn't.

armoured_amazon
18-10-2011, 08:54 PM
Nothing would surprise me.

hadabusa
18-10-2011, 09:13 PM
lol, even if he survived, so what.

he had absolutely zero effect on history ever since the soviets taken berlin.

he was done from then on.dead or alive dont even matter.


if he survive, he didnt command shit from hiding.

amaralsright
18-10-2011, 09:20 PM
he had absolutely zero effect on history ever since the soviets taken berlin.

He became a she.

http://images.spoof-media.com/thespoof/politics/Thatcher2.jpg

drakul
18-10-2011, 10:20 PM
Because the world is full of bullshit.

We should call the planet "Bullshit".

You could provide some evidence though about Hitler.

That normally goes a long way to convincing people that it's not bullshit.

You see... I know... call me naive... I think the claim that Hitler took the Hitler Youth and 100,000 scientists and engineers (and presumably a whole shitload of logistical people and sex slaves) to the Antartic to set up a secret base is... well... a bad fucking Z Movie Hollywood plot.

Come on.. get real.

Maybe you should `get real' - Operation Paperclip was just one of the programs the US/Allies implemented to spirit Nazis out of Germany. In addition to Operation Paperclip there were Operations Applepie, Dustbin, Safehaven, Eclipse, Ossavakim (Soviet), Special Mission V-2, Surgeon, Alsos, Cuxhaven, Backfire, Lusty, etc etc etc all dedicated to whisking WWII Nazis out of Germany and rewarding them with a highly paid good life abroad.

This does not include non govt missions such as the Vatican RATLINES which was dedicated more toward helping the demonic Nazi butchers escape Europe and into Catholic countries in Sth America.

From Wiki -


Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45). It was conducted by the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA), and in the context of the burgeoning Soviet–American Cold War (1945–91); one purpose of Operation Paperclip was to deny German scientific knowledge and expertise to the USSR[1] and the UK.[2]

Although the JIOA’s recruitment of German scientists began after the European Allied victory (8 May 1945), US President Harry Truman did not formally order the execution of Operation Paperclip until August 1945. Truman's order expressly excluded anyone found “to have been a member of the Nazi Party, and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Nazi militarism.” Said restrictions would have rendered ineligible most of the scientists the JIOA had identified for recruitment, among them rocket scientists Wernher von Braun and Arthur Rudolph, and the physician Hubertus Strughold, each earlier classified as a “menace to the security of the Allied Forces”.

To circumvent President Truman’s anti-Nazi order, and the Allied Potsdam and Yalta agreements, the JIOA worked independently to create false employment and political biographies for the scientists. The JIOA also expunged from the public record the scientists' Nazi Party memberships and régime affiliations. Once “bleached” of their Nazism, the US Government granted the scientists security clearance to work in the United States. Paperclip, the project’s operational name, derived from the paperclips used to attach the scientists’ new political personae to their “US Government Scientist” JIOA personnel files.[3]


[edit] The Osenberg List

Having failed to conquer the USSR with Operation Barbarossa (June–December 1941), the Siege of Leningrad (September 1941–January 1944), Operation Nordlicht (August–October 1942), and the Battle of Stalingrad (July 1942–February 1943), Nazi Germany found itself at a logistical disadvantage. The failed conquest had depleted German resources and its military-industrial complex was unprepared to defend the Großdeutsches Reich (Greater German Reich) against the Red Army’s westward counterattack. By early 1943, the German government began recalling from combat a number of scientists, engineers, and technicians; they returned to work in research and development to bolster German defense for a protracted war with the USSR. The recall from frontline combat included 4,000 rocketeers returned to Peenemünde, in north-east coastal Germany, to wit:[4][5]
“ Overnight, Ph.D.s were liberated from KP duty, masters of science were recalled from orderly service, mathematicians were hauled out of bakeries, and precision mechanics ceased to be truck drivers. „

—Dieter K. Huzel, Peenemünde to Canaveral

The Nazi government’s recall of their now-useful intellectuals for scientific work first required identifying and locating the scientists, engineers, and technicians, then ascertaining their political and ideological reliability. Werner Osenberg, the engineer-scientist heading the Wehrforschungsgemeinschaft (Military Research Association), recorded the names of the politically-cleared men to the Osenberg List, thus reinstating them to scientific work.[6]

In March 1945, at Bonn University, a Polish laboratory technician found pieces of the Osenberg List stuffed in a toilet; the list subsequently reached MI6, who transmitted it to US Intelligence.[7][8] Then US Army Major Robert B. Staver, Chief of the Jet Propulsion Section of the Research and Intelligence Branch of the U.S. Army Ordnance Corps, used the Osenberg List to compile his list of German scientists to be captured and interrogated; Wernher von Braun, Nazi Germany’s premier rocket scientist headed Major Staver’s list.[9]
[edit] Identification
V-2 rocket launching, Peenemünde, on the north-east Baltic German coast. (1943)

Operation Overcast — Major Staver’s original intent was only to interview the scientists, but what he learned changed the operation’s purpose. On 22 May 1945, he transmitted to US Pentagon headquarters Colonel Joel Holmes’s telegram urging the evacuation of German scientists, and their families, as most “important for [the] Pacific war” effort.[8] Most of the Osenberg List engineers worked at the Baltic coast German Army Research Center Peenemünde, developing the V-2 rocket; after capturing them, the Allies initially housed them and their families in Landshut, Bavaria, in southern Germany.

Beginning on 19 July 1945, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) managed the captured ARC rocketeers under a program called Operation Overcast. However, when the “Camp Overcast” name of the scientists’ quarters became locally-known, the program was renamed Operation Paperclip in March 1946. Despite these attempts at secrecy, later that year the press interviewed several of the scientists.[8][9][9][10]

Regarding Operation Alsos, Allied Intelligence described nuclear physicist Werner Heisenberg, the German nuclear energy project principal, as “ . . . worth more to us than ten divisions of Germans.” In addition to rocketeers and nuclear physicists, the Allies also sought chemists, physicians, and naval weaponeers.[11]

Meanwhile, the Technical Director of the German Army Rocket Center, Wernher von Braun, was jailed at P.O. Box 1142, a secret military-intelligence prison in Fort Hunt, Virginia in the United States. Since the prison was unknown to the International Red Cross, its operation by the US was in violation of the Geneva Convention. Although Von Braun’s interrogators pressured him, he was not tortured; however in 1944 another PoW, U-boat Captain Werner Henke was shot and killed while climbing the fence at Fort Hunt.[12]

[edit] Capture and detention

Map showing the Allied zones of occupation in post-war Germany, as well as the line of U.S. forward positions on V-E Day. The south-western part of the Soviet occupation zone, close to a third of its overall area was west of the U.S. forward positions on V-E day.
The Allied zones of occupation in post-war Germany, highlighting the Soviet zone (red), the inner German border (heavy black line) and the zone from which British and American troops withdrew in July 1945 (purple). The provincial boundaries are those of pre-Nazi Weimar Germany, before the present Länder (federal states) were established.

Early on the U.S. created the Combined Intelligence Objectives Subcommittee (CIOS). This provided the information on targets for the T-Forces that went in and targeted scientific, military and industrial installations (and their employees) for their know-how. Initial priorities were advanced technology, such as infrared, that could be used in the war against Japan; finding out what technology had been passed on to Japan; and finally to halt the research. A project to halt the research was codenamed "Project Safehaven", and it was not initially targeted against the Soviet Union; rather the concern was that German scientists might emigrate and continue their research in countries such as Spain, Argentina or Egypt, all of which had sympathized with Nazi Germany.

Much U.S. effort was focused on Saxony and Thuringia, which by July 1, 1945 would become part of the Soviet Occupation zone. Many German research facilities and personnel had been evacuated to these states, particularly from the Berlin area. Fearing that the Soviet takeover would limit U.S. ability to exploit German scientific and technical expertise, and not wanting the Soviet Union to benefit from said expertise, the U.S. instigated an "evacuation operation" of scientific personnel from Saxony and Thuringia, issuing orders such as:

On orders of Military Government you are to report with your family and baggage as much as you can carry tomorrow noon at 1300 hours (Friday, 22 June 1945) at the town square in Bitterfeld. There is no need to bring winter clothing. Easily carried possessions, such as family documents, jewelry, and the like should be taken along. You will be transported by motor vehicle to the nearest railway station. From there you will travel on to the West. Please tell the bearer of this letter how large your family is.

By 1947 this evacuation operation had netted an estimated 1,800 technicians and scientists, along with 3,700 family-members. Those with special skills or knowledge were taken to detention and interrogation centers, such as one code-named DUSTBIN,[13] to be held and interrogated, in some cases for months.

A few of the scientists were gathered up in Operation Overcast, but most were transported to villages in the countryside where there were neither research facilities nor work; they were provided stipends and forced to report twice weekly to police headquarters to prevent them from leaving. The Joint Chiefs of Staff directive on research and teaching stated that technicians and scientists should be released "only after all interested agencies were satisfied that all desired intelligence information had been obtained from them".

On 5 November 1947, the Office of Military Government of the United States (OMGUS), which had jurisdiction over the western part of occupied Germany, held a conference to consider the status of the evacuees, the monetary claims that the evacuees had filed against the U.S., and the "possible violation by the U.S. of laws of war or Rules of Land Warfare". The OMGUS director of Intelligence R. L. Walsh initiated a program to resettle the evacuees in the Third world, which the Germans referred to as General Walsh's "Urwald-Programm" (jungle program), however this program never matured. In 1948, the evacuees received settlements of 69.5 million Reichsmarks from the U.S., a settlement that soon became severely devalued during the currency reform that introduced the Deutsche Mark as the official currency of western Germany.

John Gimbel concludes that the U.S. put some of Germany's best minds on ice for three years, therefore depriving the German recovery of their expertise.[14]

[edit] The scientists
German scientists repatriated from Sukhumi in February 1958. (see Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union)

In May 1945, the US Navy received Dr. Herbert A. Wagner, the inventor of the Hs 293 missile; for two years, he first worked at the Special Devices Center, at Castle Gould and at Hempstead House, Long Island, New York; in 1947, he moved to the Naval Air Station Point Mugu.[15]

In August 1945, Colonel Holger Toftoy, head of the Rocket Branch of the Research and Development Division of the US Army’s Ordnance Corps, offered initial one-year contracts to the rocket scientists; 127 of them accepted. In September 1945, the first group of seven rocket scientists arrived at Fort Strong, New York: Wernher von Braun, Erich W. Neubert, Theodor A. Poppel, August Schulze, Eberhard Rees, Wilhelm Jungert, and Walter Schwidetzky.[8]

Beginning in late 1945, three rocket-scientist groups arrived in the US for duty at Fort Bliss, Texas, and at White Sands Proving Grounds, New Mexico, as “War Department Special Employees”.[4]:27

In 1946, the United States Bureau of Mines employed seven German synthetic fuel scientists at a Fischer-Tropsch chemical plant in Louisiana, Missouri.[16]

In early 1950, legal US residency for some of the Project Paperclip specialists was effected through the US consulate in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico; thus, Nazi scientists legally entered the US from Latin America.[4]:226[9]

Eighty-six aeronautical engineers were transferred to Wright Field, where the US had Luftwaffe aircraft and equipment captured under Operation Lusty (Luftwaffe Secret Technology).[17]

The United States Army Signal Corps employed 24 specialists — including the physicists Georg Goubau, Gunter Guttwein, Georg Hass, Horst Kedesdy, and Kurt Lehovec; the physical chemists Rudolf Brill, Ernst Baars, and Eberhard Both; the geophysicist Dr. Helmut Weickmann; the optician Gerhard Schwesinger; and the engineers Eduard Gerber, Richard Guenther, and Hans Ziegler.[18]

In 1959, ninety-four Operation Paperclip men went to the US, including Friedwardt Winterberg and Friedrich Wigand.[15] Throughout its operations to 1990, Operation Paperclip imported 1,600 men, as part of the intellectual reparations owed to the US and the UK, some $10 billion in patents and industrial processes.[15][19]

During the decades after they were included in Operation Paperclip, some scientists were investigated because of their activities during World War II. Arthur Rudolph was deported in 1984, but not prosecuted, and West Germany granted him citizenship.[20] Similarly, Georg Rickhey, who came to the United States under Operation Paperclip in 1946, was returned to Germany to stand trial at the Mittelbau-Dora war crimes trial in 1947, was acquitted, and returned to the United States in 1948, eventually becoming a U.S. citizen.[21] The aeromedical library at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas had been named after Hubertus Strughold in 1977. However, it was later renamed because documents from the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal linked Strughold to medical experiments in which inmates from Dachau were tortured and killed.[22]

[edit] Key figures

* Rocketry: Rudi Beichel, Magnus von Braun, Wernher von Braun, Walter Dornberger, Werner Dahm, Konrad Dannenberg, Kurt H. Debus, Ernst R. G. Eckert, Krafft Arnold Ehricke, Otto Hirschler, Hermann H. Kurzweg, Fritz Mueller, Gerhard Reisig, Georg Rickhey, Arthur Rudolph, Ernst Stuhlinger, Werner Rosinski, Eberhard Rees, Ludwig Roth, Georg von Tiesenhausen, and Bernhard Tessmann (see List of German rocket scientists in the US).
* Aeronautics: Siegfried Knemeyer, Alexander Martin Lippisch, Hans von Ohain, Hans Multhopp, Kurt Tank
* Medicine: Walter Schreiber, Kurt Blome, Hubertus Strughold, Hans Antmann (Human factors)[17]
* Electronics: Hans Ziegler, Kurt Lehovec, Hans Hollmann, Johannes Plendl, Heinz Schlicke
* Intelligence: Reinhard Gehlen

[edit] Related operations

* APPLEPIE: Project to capture and interrogate key Wehrmacht, RSHA AMT VI, and General Staff officers knowledgeable of the industry and economy of the USSR.[23]
* DUSTBIN (counterpart of ASHCAN): An Anglo–American military intelligence operation established first in Paris, then in Kransberg Castle, at Frankfurt.[24][25]:314
* ECLIPSE (1944): An unimplemented Air Disarmament Wing plan for post-war operations in Europe for destroying V-1 and V-2 missiles.[25][26]:44
o Safehaven: US project within ECLIPSE meant to prevent the escape of Nazi scientists from Allied-occupied Germany.[9]
* Field Information Agency; Technical (FIAT): US Army agency for securing the “major, and perhaps only, material reward of victory, namely, the advancement of science and the improvement of production and standards of living in the United Nations, by proper exploitation of German methods in these fields”; FIAT ended in 1947, when Operation Paperclip began functioning.[25]:316
* On 26 April 1946, the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued JCS Directive 1067/14 to General Eisenhower instructing that he “preserve from destruction and take under your control records, plans, books, documents, papers, files and scientific, industrial and other information and data belonging to . . . German organizations engaged in military research”;[8]:185 and that, excepting war-criminals, German scientists be detained for intelligence purposes as required.[27]
* National Interest/Project 63: Job placement assistance for Nazi engineers at Lockheed, Martin Marietta, North American Aviation, and other aeroplane companies, whilst American aerospace engineers were being laid off work.[15]
* Operation Alsos, Operation Big, Russian Alsos: Soviet and American efforts to capture German nuclear secrets, equipment, and personnel.
* Operation Backfire: A British effort at capturing rocket and aerospace technology from Cuxhaven.
* Operation Lusty: US efforts to capture German aeronautical equipment, technology, and personnel.
* Operation Osoaviakhim (sometimes transliterated as "Operation Ossavakim"), a Soviet counterpart of Operation Paperclip, involving German technicians, managers, skilled workers and their respective families.[28]
* Operation Surgeon: British operation for denying German aeronautical expertise to the USSR, and for exploiting German scientists in furthering British research.[29]
* Special Mission V-2: US operation, by Maj. William Bromley, meant to recover V-2 rocket parts and equipment. Maj. James P. Hamill co-ordinated the rail transport of said equipment with the 144th Motor Vehicle Assembly Company, from Nordhausen to Erfurt.[9][1] (see also Operation Blossom, Broomstick Scientists, Hermes project, Operations Sandy and Pushover)
* Target Intelligence Committee: US project to exploit German cryptographers.

drakul
18-10-2011, 10:53 PM
lol, even if he survived, so what.

he had absolutely zero effect on history ever since the soviets taken berlin.

he was done from then on.dead or alive dont even matter.


if he survive, he didnt command shit from hiding.


My friend - you don't know that. Why do you think Yugoslavia is now broken up as Hitler had it?

Hitler formed `Greater Croatia' - and that's just what we have now, independent Croatia with Krajina (Serbs were ethnically cleansed) and part of Bosnia (not independent but will be) plus nearly the entire coast of Yugoslavia. WOW

Hitler formed `Greater Albania' - NATO gave Kosovo to Albania just like Hitler did.

Under Hitler Muslims got Bosnia - thus rewarding the Turks and putting them back in Europe. Same as now.

Soon as Tito died all these Nazi Ustase and their offspring started popping up in Croatia, Sth AM. Canada, US and Australia. I am not saying Hitler was still alive then to stage manage the break up of Yugo, but the point is that thousands of the most brutal Nazis were never punished for their crimes. They were somehow spirited out of Europe. Nazi ideals were kept alive and when the time was right, these same actors were enabled by NATO/US/EU to take over Yugo.

amaralsright
19-10-2011, 08:05 AM
Maybe you should `get real' - Operation Paperclip

Ah.. nice obfuscation with the truth and with the bullshit.

Operation paperclip was real and there is Wernher Von Braun and his Peenemünde team working on Apollo as evidence.

However.. Hitler, 100,000 Nazi scientists and the Hitler Youth all disappearing in 100 submarines to the Antartic is pure bollocks.

Hitler was never heard of again unless in a "Elvis works at our chip shop" way.

I am real.

waymarker
19-10-2011, 08:22 AM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ExIS/hitl-escap.jpg

amaralsright
19-10-2011, 08:26 AM
Prince Harry?

ritchs
19-10-2011, 08:59 AM
There are many stories that sound possible and maybe even probable, but without proof. That is a serious problem. If we could provide enough proof we could put behind bars the perpetrators of 9/11


Operation Paperclip not only brought over Werhner Von Braun, nut top Nazi Reinhard Gehlen and others to provide technical support to the newly formed CIA that morphed from the earlier OSS Office of Secret Services,

There are supposed deathbed confessions from SS Commando Otto Skorzeny While there is a very serious lack of proof, there is also a serious amount of cross referencing to various sources. If it is a concocted tale, it is very thorough and elaborate one, and I don't think anyone got rich from it.

You have to take it all with a huge grain of salt and be skeptical. But realize the lengths that such information has been suppressed. Look at Obummers birth certificate for starters. They can do anything with impunity.

We are constantly dealing with half truths and lies, their specialty


Just thinking about the idea of Clones that can be grown in days of anyone is enough to beggar the imagination, yet we discuss it all the time here in the forums


I am a very left brained person, but have needed to use my gut feeling on what is right and makes the most sense in my search for answers. I've been forced to realize that David Icke is not insane and that there are probably lizards running things with secret rituals and all. I can't even share this stuff with friends because it is soooo far out there, but it rings true. I am operating with intuition now and it is serving me well although it bucks against my left brain way of being logical.



Loved this one "I'm not a proctologist but I know an asshole when I see one"

steppewar
19-10-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm just gutted Germany lost WW2. I reckon planet Earth would be in a much better place if they had won.

Churchill and Stalin committed far more evil deeds than Hitler. Hitler was a peacemaker forced into war mainly by the international Zionist controlled banking dynasty.

ritchs
19-10-2011, 09:23 AM
I'va also wondered that about old Adolf too. He was a real German trying to help the Germans, The ReichsDeutche, VolksDeutche Auslander Deutsche, und so weiter. It is so totally true that history is written by the victors. He was a genius that has been tarred with a broad bush. No one talks about Eisenhower putting the Deutsche Volk on a 7 to 900 a day diet and allowing the Algerian and Russians to rape the women endlessly for years afterward.


Churchill is believed to be resaonsible for all this and Hess was trying to make peace on his Messerschmitt mission.


Same thing can be said about how the Japanese were coerced and baited into war with US foreign policy.

hadabusa
19-10-2011, 09:57 AM
I'va also wondered that about old Adolf too. He was a real German trying to help the Germans, The ReichsDeutche, VolksDeutche Auslander Deutsche, und so weiter. It is so totally true that history is written by the victors. He was a genius that has been tarred with a broad bush. No one talks about Eisenhower putting the Deutsche Volk on a 7 to 900 a day diet and allowing the Algerian and Russians to rape the women endlessly for years afterward.


Churchill is believed to be resaonsible for all this and Hess was trying to make peace on his Messerschmitt mission.


Same thing can be said about how the Japanese were coerced and baited into war with US foreign policy.

lol, "he was a real german".

:rolleyes:

guy was austrian, you fool.

januspolanski
19-10-2011, 11:35 AM
I'va also wondered that about old Adolf too. He was a real German trying to help the Germans, The ReichsDeutche, VolksDeutche Auslander Deutsche, und so weiter. It is so totally true that history is written by the victors. He was a genius that has been tarred with a broad bush. No one talks about Eisenhower putting the Deutsche Volk on a 7 to 900 a day diet and allowing the Algerian and Russians to rape the women endlessly for years afterward.


Churchill is believed to be resaonsible for all this and Hess was trying to make peace on his Messerschmitt mission.


Same thing can be said about how the Japanese were coerced and baited into war with US foreign policy.

Genius?

Anyone who decides to attack both the Western Allies and Russia at the same time is incredibly stupid and tactically unsound.

History is written by winners yes but I'm not convinced we would have a better world/Europe had Germany won the War.

I do think that Nazi evil deeds "may" have been blown out of proportion and I know for certain that Allied evil deeds have been covered up or watered down. Dresden for example, maybe as many as 500,000 died there but History states that only 25,000 died. Perhaps this type of falsified accounting has been applied to the Holocaust too. 6,000,000 Jews dead or is it more like 600,000, which of course is still terrible.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 11:39 AM
Genius?

Anyone who decides to attack both the Western Allies and Russia at the same time is incredibly stupid and tactically unsound.


Maybe you need a little re-education regarding WW2 and why Hitler made a pre-emptive strike against the USSR.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans.html

http://rt.com/news/stalin-letter-sothebys-auction/

merlincove
19-10-2011, 11:54 AM
I'm just gutted Germany lost WW2. I reckon planet Earth would be in a much better place if they had won.

Churchill and Stalin committed far more evil deeds than Hitler. Hitler was a peacemaker forced into war mainly by the international Zionist controlled banking dynasty.

i doubt there would have ever been a benefit system under Hitler.

Sorry thing is, most of his would be supporters in the BNP etc, i doubt he would have even cared a toss about them. Aryan race? If you aint cutttin it, what then? There would be no place for slackers in his world. :D

tinyint
19-10-2011, 11:57 AM
There would be no place for slackers in his world. :D

That is nonsense. :)
The SS for example consisted of many foreigners, including asians and blacks, apart from multi ethnic europeans.

Its simply myth that Hitler(he personally?) wanted to kill other non germans.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 12:02 PM
That is nonsense. :)
The SS for example consisted of many foreigners, including asians and blacks, apart from multi ethnic europeans.

Its simply myth that Hitler(he personally?) wanted to kill other non germans.

The word slacker implies someone who doesn't want to pull their weight / do their share:

slack·er (slkr)
n.
1. One who shirks work or responsibility: "In terms of their outlook on the future, slackers regard tomorrow with a studied cynicism or . . . don't even conceive of one" (Julie Caniglia).
2. One who tries to evade military service in wartime; a draft dodger.

My post had nothing to do with ethnicity or any alude to genocidal wishes etc.

Read what i posted ;)

tinyint
19-10-2011, 12:04 PM
The word slacker implies someone who doesn't want to pull their weight / do their share:

slack·er (slkr)
n.
1. One who shirks work or responsibility: "In terms of their outlook on the future, slackers regard tomorrow with a studied cynicism or . . . don't even conceive of one" (Julie Caniglia).
2. One who tries to evade military service in wartime; a draft dodger.

My post had nothing to do with ethnicity or any alude to genocidal wishes etc.

Read what i posted ;)

Oh, I am no walking english dictionary, thank you.
I was not alluding anything, myabe jumped the gun too early, because I am so tired of the nonsensical lies. Sometimes transported as jokes. :p:)

merlincove
19-10-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm just gutted Germany lost WW2. I reckon planet Earth would be in a much better place if they had won.



And just in case anyone is wondering - look at Europe now, today. Is it far removed from what Hitler wanted? A United States of Europe. Seems Blair succeeded where Hitler failed - the end design is the same, it's only the methodology that got us there which differs.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 12:10 PM
Oh, I am no walking english dictionary, thank you.
I was not alluding anything, myabe jumped the gun too early, because I am so tired of the nonsensical lies. Sometimes transported as jokes. :p:)

i wasn't joking, or mascerading lies as humor - simply suggesting that perhaps in a Hitler driven state, there wouldn't be such a generously enriched benefits system as the one that the UK enjoys now - he didn't really seem the type to let people sit on their arses and sponge of the system while complaining about the very system that supports them - is all.

:)

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 12:20 PM
And just in case anyone is wondering - look at Europe now, today. Is it far removed from what Hitler wanted? A United States of Europe. Seems Blair succeeded where Hitler failed - the end design is the same, it's only the methodology that got us there which differs.

Massive difference. We're controlled by a Zionist Jewish money system.

morning
19-10-2011, 12:22 PM
And just in case anyone is wondering - look at Europe now, today. Is it far removed from what Hitler wanted? A United States of Europe. Seems Blair succeeded where Hitler failed - the end design is the same, it's only the methodology that got us there which differs.

Exactly.
World War II was NOT the victory that the Western Allied Forces claimed it was. Remember, the real reasons why the UN was set up after the war.

I highly reccommend this podcast -
http://tnsradio.weebly.com/freeman-jack.html
Scroll down to 'WW2 was a HuGe Conspiracy'

tinyint
19-10-2011, 12:26 PM
Exactly.
World War II was NOT the victory that the Western Allied Forces claimed it was. Remember, the real reasons why the UN was set up after the war.

I highly reccommend this podcast -
http://tnsradio.weebly.com/freeman-jack.html
Scroll down to 'WW2 was a HuGe Conspiracy'

The UN have been setup as a war alliance against Germany and Japan when the war was still going.

Read UN charter section 53 & 107.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter8.shtml

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter17.shtml

It called enemy state, and thus we still live technically in WWII, since there exists no peace treaty.

januspolanski
19-10-2011, 12:27 PM
Maybe you need a little re-education regarding WW2 and why Hitler made a pre-emptive strike against the USSR.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans.html

http://rt.com/news/stalin-letter-sothebys-auction/

Just read both the articles.

Perhaps Ive been watching too many History channel documentaries.

Seems as if the Russians really were going to attack Germany.

I still think that terrible errors were made by Hitler concerning the Russian war.

For example not making plans for the Russian winter. Winter gear for the troops etc.

Not taking into account the massive distances to cover to re supply to German Army.

The Germans should have been content with their initial sweeping victories and capture of vast amounts of Russian troops. They should have taken key resources and built a defensive wall and tried too sue for peace with the Russians. Or certainly pulled back as the Winter approached.

morning
19-10-2011, 12:35 PM
The UN have been setup as a war alliance against Germany and Japan when the war was still going.

Read UN charter section 53 & 107.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter8.shtml

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter17.shtml

It called enemy state, and thus we still live technically in WWII, since there exists no peace treaty.

Yes, this is justification for the creation of the UN, referred to in their own charters...
If you're interested in a different perspective, listen to the podcast I've provided a link for in my last post.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 12:44 PM
Massive difference. We're controlled by a Zionist Jewish money system.

And what makes you believe that the Zionist masters behind Hitler aren't the same as the Zionist masters behind Blair?

Two different masks, is all - with one game plan.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 12:45 PM
Yes, this is justification for the creation of the UN, referred to in their own charters...
If you're interested in a different perspective, listen to the podcast I've provided a link for in my last post.

I am not, to be honest, except you tell me its content is not "look, omg, its the nazis behind the UN".

tinyint
19-10-2011, 12:47 PM
And what makes you believe that the Zionist masters behind Hitler aren't the same as the Zionist masters behind Blair?

Two different masks, is all - with one game plan.

The were no zionist masters behind hitler, other than usual business throughout the war. Opel became GM in iirc 1923, and one reason why Hitler did not want Opel to build tanks. They later produced around 1942 trucks however, for the eastern front.

drakul
19-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Ah.. nice obfuscation with the truth and with the bullshit.

Operation paperclip was real and there is Wernher Von Braun and his Peenemünde team working on Apollo as evidence.

However.. Hitler, 100,000 Nazi scientists and the Hitler Youth all disappearing in 100 submarines to the Antartic is pure bollocks.

Hitler was never heard of again unless in a "Elvis works at our chip shop" way.

I am real.

There was a wholesale Nazi exodus out of Europe - but not for Hitler?

Vatican Ratlines -

Ratlines were a system of escape routes for Nazis and other fascists fleeing Europe at the end of World War II. These escape routes mainly led toward havens in South America, particularly Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay, and Chile. Other destinations included the United States and perhaps Canada and the Middle East. There were two primary routes: the first went from Germany to Spain, then Argentina; the second from Germany to Rome to Genoa, then South America; the two routes "developed independently" but eventually came together to collaborate.[1]

One ratline, made famous by the Frederick Forsyth thriller The Odessa File, was run by the ODESSA (Organisation der ehemaligen SS-Angehörigen; "Organization of Former SS-Members") network organized by Otto Skorzeny.

[edit] Early Spanish ratlines

The origins of the first ratlines are connected to various developments in Vatican-Argentine relations before and during World War II.[2] As early as 1942, Monsignor Luigi Maglione contacted Ambassador Llobet, inquiring as to the "willingness of the government of the Argentine Republic to apply its immigration law generously, in order to encourage at the opportune moment European Catholic immigrants to seek the necessary land and capital in our country".[3] Afterwards, a German priest, Anton Weber, the head of the Rome-based Society of Saint Raphael, traveled to Portugal, continuing to Argentina, to lay the groundwork for future Catholic immigration.[3] According to historian Michael Phayer, "this was the innocent origin of what would become the Vatican ratline".[3]

Spain, not Rome, was the "first center of ratline activity that facilitated the escape of Nazi fascists", although the exodus itself was planned within the Vatican.[4] Charles Lescat, a French Catholic member of Action Française (an organization suppressed by Pius XI and rehabilitated by Pius XII), and Pierre Daye, a Belgian with contacts in the Spanish government, were among the primary organizers.[5] Lescat and Daye were the first able to flee Europe, with the help of French cardinal Eugene Tisserant and Argentine cardinal Antonio Caggiano.[5]

By 1946, there were probably hundreds of war criminals in Spain, and thousands of former Nazis and fascists.[6] According to US Secretary of State James F. Byrnes, Vatican cooperation in turning over asylum-seekers was "negligible".[6] According to Phayer, Pius XII "preferred to see fascist war criminals on board ships sailing to the New World rather than seeing them rotting in POW camps in zonal Germany".[7] Unlike the Vatican emigration operation in Italy, centered on Vatican City, the ratlines of Spain, although "fostered by the Vatican" were relatively independent of the hierarchy of the Vatican Emigration Bureau.[8]
[edit] The Roman ratlines
[edit] Early efforts—Bishop Hudal

Bishop Alois Hudal was rector of the Pontificio Istituto Teutonico Santa Maria dell'Anima in Rome, a seminary for Austrian and German priests, and "Spiritual Director of the German People resident in Italy".[9] After the end of the war in Italy, Hudal became active in ministering to German-speaking prisoners of war and internees then held in camps throughout Italy. In December 1944 the Vatican Secretariat of State received permission to appoint a representative to "visit the German-speaking civil internees in Italy", a job assigned to Hudal.

Hudal used this position to aid the escape of wanted Nazi war criminals, including Franz Stangl, commanding officer of Treblinka, Gustav Wagner, commanding officer of Sobibor, Alois Brunner, responsible for the Drancy internment camp near Paris and in charge of deportations in Slovakia to German concentration camps, and Adolf Eichmann[10]— a fact about which he was later unashamedly open. Some of these wanted men were being held in internment camps: generally without identity papers, they would be enrolled in camp registers under false names. Other Nazis were in hiding in Italy, and sought Hudal out as his role in assisting escapes became known on the Nazi grapevine.[11]:289

In his memoirs Hudal said of his actions "I thank God that He [allowed me] to visit and comfort many victims in their prisons and concentration camps and to help them escape with false identity papers." [12] He explained that in his eyes:

"The Allies' War against Germany was not a crusade, but the rivalry of economic complexes for whose victory they had been fighting. This so-called business ... used catchwords like democracy, race, religious liberty and Christianity as a bait for the masses. All these experiences were the reason why I felt duty bound after 1945 to devote my whole charitable work mainly to former National Socialists and Fascists, especially to so-called 'war criminals'."

According to Mark Aarons and John Loftus in their book Unholy Trinity,[13] Hudal was the first Catholic priest to dedicate himself to establishing escape routes. Aarons and Loftus claim that Hudal provided the objects of his charity with money to help them escape, and more importantly with false papers including identity documents issued by the Vatican Refugee Organisation (Commissione Pontificia d'Assistenza).

These Vatican papers were not full passports, and not in themselves enough to gain passage overseas. They were, rather, the first stop in a paper trail—they could be used to obtain a displaced person passport from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), which in turn could be used to apply for visas. In theory the ICRC would perform background checks on passport applicants, but in practice the word of a priest or particularly a bishop would be good enough. According to statements collected by Gitta Sereny from a senior official of the Rome branch of the ICRC,[11]:316-17 Hudal could also use his position as a bishop to request papers from the ICRC "made out according to his specifications". Sereny's sources also revealed an active illicit trade in stolen and forged ICRC papers in Rome at this time.

According to declassified US intelligence reports, Hudal was not the only priest helping Nazi escapees at this time. In the "La Vista report" declassified in 1984, Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) operative Vincent La Vista told how he had easily arranged for two bogus Hungarian refugees to get false ICRC documents with the help of a letter from a Father Joseph Gallov. Gallov, who ran a Vatican-sponsored charity for Hungarian refugees, asked no questions and wrote a letter to his "personal contact in the International Red Cross, who then issued the passports".[14]
[edit] The San Girolamo ratline

According to Aarons and Loftus, Hudal's private operation was small scale compared to what came later. The major Roman ratline was operated by a small, but influential network of Croatian priests, members of the Franciscan order, led by Father Krunoslav Draganović. Draganović organized a highly sophisticated chain with headquarters at the San Girolamo degli Illirici Seminary College in Rome, but with links from Austria to the final embarcation point in the port of Genoa. The ratline initially focused on aiding members of the Croatian Ustashe movement, most notably the Croat wartime dictator Ante Pavelić.[15]

Priests active in the chain included: Fr. Vilim Cecelja, former Deputy Military Vicar to the Ustashe, based in Austria where many Ustashe and Nazi refugees remained in hiding; Fr. Dragutin Kamber, based at San Girolamo; Fr. Dominik Mandić, an official Vatican representative at San Girolamo and also "General Economist" or treasurer of the Franciscan order - who used this position to put the Franciscan press at the ratline's disposal; and Monsignor Karlo Petranović, based in Genoa. Vilim would make contact with those hiding in Austria and help them across the border to Italy; Kamber, Mandić and Draganović would find them lodgings, often in the monastery itself, while they arranged documentation; finally Draganović would phone Petranović in Genoa with the number of required berths on ships leaving for South America (see below).

The operation of the Draganović ratline was an open secret among the intelligence and diplomatic communities in Rome. As early as August 1945, Allied commanders in Rome were asking questions about the use of San Girolamo as a "haven" for Ustashe.[16] A year later, a US State Department report of 12 July 1946 lists nine war criminals, including Albanians and Montenegrins as well as Croats, plus others "not actually sheltered in the COLLEGIUM ILLIRICUM [i.e., San Girolamo degli Illirici] but who otherwise enjoy Church support and protection."[17] The British envoy to the Holy See, Francis Osborne, asked Domenico Tardini, a high ranking Vatican official, for a permission that would have allowed British military police to raid ex-territorial Vatican Institutions in Rome. Tardini declined and denied that the church sheltered war criminals.

In February 1947 CIC Special Agent Robert Clayton Mudd reported ten members of Pavelić's Ustasha cabinet living either in San Girolamo or in the Vatican itself. Mudd had infiltrated an agent into the monastery and confirmed that it was "honeycombed with cells of Ustashe operatives" guarded by "armed youths". Mudd also reported:

"It was further established that these Croats travel back and forth from the Vatican several times a week in a car with a chauffeur whose license plate bears the two initials CD, "Corpo Diplomatico". It issues forth from the Vatican and discharges its passengers inside the Monastery of San Geronimo. Subject to diplomatic immunity it is impossible to stop the car and discover who are its passengers."[18]

Mudd's conclusion was the following:

"DRAGANOVIC's sponsorship of these Croat Ustashes definitely links him up with the plan of the Vatican to shield these ex-Ustasha nationalists until such time as they are able to procure for them the proper documents to enable them to go to South America. The Vatican, undoubtedly banking on the strong anti-Communist feelings of these men, is endeavoring to infiltrate them into South America in any way possible to counteract the spread of Red doctrine. It has been reliably reported, for example that Dr. VRANCIC has already gone to South America and that Ante PAVELIC and General KREN are scheduled for an early departure to South America through Spain. All these operations are said to have been negotiated by DRAGANOVIC because of his influence in the Vatican."

The existence of Draganović's ratline has been confirmed by a Vatican historian, Fr. Robert Graham: "I've no doubt that Draganović was extremely active in syphoning off his Croatian Ustashe friends." However, Graham insisted that Draganović was not officially sanctioned in this by his superiors: "Just because he's a priest doesn't mean he represents the Vatican. It was his own operation."[19] On four occasions the Vatican intervened on behalf of interned Ustasha prisoners. The Secretariat of State asked the U.K. and U.S. government to release Croatian POWs from British internment camps in Italy.
[edit] US intelligence involvement

If at first US intelligence officers had been mere observers of the Draganović ratline, this changed in the summer of 1947. A now declassified US Army intelligence report from 1950 sets out in detail the history of the people smuggling operation in the three years to follow.[20] According to the report, from this point on US forces themselves had begun to use Draganović's established network to evacuate its own "visitors". As the report put it, these were "visitors who had been in the custody of the 430th CIC and completely processed in accordance with current directives and requirements, and whose continued residence in Austria constituted a security threat as well as a source of possible embarrassment to the Commanding General of USFA, since the Soviet Command had become aware that their presence in US Zone of Austria and in some instances had requested the return of these persons to Soviet custody".[20]

These were suspected war criminals from areas occupied by the Red Army which the US was obliged to hand over for trial to the Soviets. The US reputedly was reluctant to do so, partly due to a belief that fair trial could hardly be expected in the USSR (see Operation Keelhaul), and at the same time, their desire to make use of Nazi scientists and other resources.[citation needed] The deal with Draganović involved getting the visitors to Rome: "Dragonovich [sic] handled all phases of the operation after the defectees arrived in Rome, such as the procurement of IRO Italian and South American documents, visas, stamps, arrangements for disposition, land or sea, and notification of resettlement committees in foreign lands".[20] United States intelligence used these methods in order to get important Nazi scientists and military strategists, to the extent they had not already been claimed by the Soviet Union, to their own centres of military science in the US. Many Nazi scientists were employed by the US, retrieved in Operation Paperclip.[citation needed]
[edit] The Argentine Connection

See also Juan Perón and the Jewish and German communities of Argentina

“ In Nuremberg at that time something was taking place that I personally considered a disgrace and an unfortunate lesson for the future of humanity. I became certain that the Argentine people also considered the Nuremberg process a disgrace, unworthy of the victors, who behaved as if they hadn't been victorious. Now we realize that they [the Allies] deserved to lose the war. (Argentine president Juan Perón on the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals.)[21] ”

In his 2002 book The Real Odessa[21] Argentine researcher Uki Gońi used new access to the country's archives to show that Argentine diplomats and intelligence officers had, on Perón's instructions, vigorously encouraged Nazi and Fascist war criminals to make their home in Argentina. According to Gońi, the Argentines not only collaborated with Draganović's ratline, they set up further ratlines of their own running through Scandinavia, Switzerland and Belgium.[citation needed]

According to Gońi, Argentina's first move into Nazi smuggling was in January 1946, when Argentine bishop Antonio Caggiano, bishop of Rosario and leader of the Argentine chapter of Catholic Action flew with Bishop Agustín Barrére to Rome where Caggiano was due to be anointed Cardinal. While in Rome the Argentine bishops met with French Cardinal Eugčne Tisserant, where they passed on a message (recorded in Argentina's diplomatic archives) that "the Government of the Argentine Republic was willing to receive French persons, whose political attitude during the recent war would expose them, should they return to France, to harsh measures and private revenge". Over the spring of 1946 a number of French war criminals, fascists and Vichy officials made it from Italy to Argentina in the same way: they were issued passports by the Rome ICRC office; these were then stamped with Argentine tourist visas (the need for health certificates and return tickets was waived on Caggiano's recommendation). The first documented case of a French war criminal arriving in Buenos Aires was Emile Dewoitine — later sentenced in absentia to 20 years hard labour. He sailed first class on the same ship back with Cardinal Caggiano.[22]

Shortly after this Argentinian Nazi smuggling became institutionalised, according to Gońi, when Perón's new government of February 1946 appointed anthropologist Santiago Peralta as Immigration Commissioner and former Ribbentrop agent Ludwig Freude as his intelligence chief. Gońi argues that these two then set up a "rescue team" of secret service agents and immigration "advisors", many of whom were themselves European war-criminals, with Argentine citizenship and employment.[23]
[edit] ODESSA and the Gehlen Org
Main article: ODESSA

The Italian and Argentinian ratlines have only been confirmed relatively recently, mainly due to research in recently declassified archives. Until the work of Aarons and Loftus, and of Uki Gońi (2002), a common view was that ex-Nazis themselves, organised in secret networks, ran the escape routes alone. The most famous such network is ODESSA (Organisation of former SS members), founded in 1946 according to Simon Wiesenthal, which included SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny and Sturmbannführer Alfred Naujocks and in Argentina, Rodolfo Freude. Alois Brunner, former commandant of Drancy internment camp near Paris, escaped to Rome, then Syria, by ODESSA. (Brunner is thought to be the highest-ranking Nazi war criminal still alive as of 2007). Persons claiming to represent ODESSA claimed responsibility in a note for the 9 July 1979 car bombing in France aimed at Nazi hunters Serge and Beate Klarsfeld.[citation needed] According to Paul Manning (1980), "eventually, over 10,000 former German military made it to South America along escape routes ODESSA and Deutsche Hilfsverein ..."[24]

Simon Wiesenthal, who advised Frederick Forsyth on the novel/filmscript The Odessa File which brought the name to public attention, also names other Nazi escape organisations such as Spinne ("Spider") and Sechsgestirn ("Constellation of Six"). Wiesenthal describes these immediately after the war as Nazi cells based in areas of Austria where many Nazis had retreated and gone to ground. Wiesenthal claimed that the ODESSA network shepherded escapees to the Catholic ratlines in Rome (although he mentions only Hudal, not Draganović); or through a second route through France and into Francoist Spain.[25]

ODESSA was supported by the Gehlen Org, which employed many former Nazi party members, and was headed by Reinhard Gehlen, a former Nazi intelligence officer employed post-war by the CIA. The Gehlen Org became the nucleus of the BND German intelligence agency, directed by Reinhard Gehlen from its 1956 creation until 1968.[citation needed]
[edit] Ratline escapees

Some of the Nazis and war criminals who escaped using ratlines include:

* Adolf Eichmann
* Franz Stangl
* Gustav Wagner
* Erich Priebke
* Klaus Barbie
* Eduard Roschmann
* Aribert Heim
* Andrija Artuković
* Ante Pavelić
* Walter Rauff
* Alois Brunner
* Josef Mengele
* Herberts Cukurs
* Johann Feil

Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

humanspirit
19-10-2011, 12:55 PM
I am just posting to get my avatar on this thread:D

amaralsright
19-10-2011, 12:56 PM
I am just posting to get my avatar on this thread:D

Pathetic.

johnfb
19-10-2011, 01:54 PM
Some of the Nazis and war criminals who escaped using ratlines include:

* Adolf Eichmann
* Franz Stangl
* Gustav Wagner
* Erich Priebke
* Klaus Barbie
* Eduard Roschmann
* Aribert Heim
* Andrija Artuković
* Ante Pavelić
* Walter Rauff
* Alois Brunner
* Josef Mengele
* Herberts Cukurs
* Johann Feil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_%28World_War_II%29

And those who were taken in by the allied governments for their knowledge.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 03:00 PM
And what makes you believe that the Zionist masters behind Hitler aren't the same as the Zionist masters behind Blair?

Two different masks, is all - with one game plan.

Because the Zionists created war with Germany because they'd simply opted out of the banking system and refused to pay national debt or compensation for WW1.

No Zionists backed the Nazis. They made Germany the most thoroughly anti-Zionist country in the World.

ritchs
19-10-2011, 05:46 PM
lol, "he was a real german".

:rolleyes:

guy was austrian, you fool.


Not trying to split hairs but there are a lot of Germans not living in Germany or even speaking German. I think it was a concept called Pan-Germanism that included all germans both within the borders and abroad, inclduing colonies in Africa, and South America

Reichs Deutche were Germans living within borders of Germany, whose borders changed many times as well as Austria Hungarys did
Volks Deutchse meaning racial Germans who often did not even speak german as in Russia and Slovakia


There were a lot of Jews in Hitlers Armies, Mischling's I believe they were called, mixed race. There is a some evidence that Hitler and the leadership like Reinhardt Heydrich were partly of Jewish ancestry

Yes, everyone knows Hitler was born in Braunau am Inn, 13 miles away from a village that Pope Ratzinger was born, ain't that interesting

morning
19-10-2011, 05:57 PM
The podcast I linked earlier.. 'WW2 a HuGe Conspiracy' ..incase you're interested but do not want to listen - here's the post from another forum of which it's based. The author puts forward a very interesting take on this part of our history. Very relevant to this thread. So, I reccommend..

http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23644

tinyint
19-10-2011, 06:00 PM
Not trying to split hairs but there are a lot of Germans not living in Germany or even speaking German. I think it was a concept called Pan-Germanism that included all germans both within the borders and abroad, inclduing colonies in Africa, and South America

Reichs Deutche were Germans living within borders of Germany, whose borders changed many times as well as Austria Hungarys did
Volks Deutchse meaning racial Germans who often did not even speak german as in Russia and Slovakia


There were a lot of Jews in Hitlers Armies, Mischling's I believe they were called, mixed race. There is a some evidence that Hitler and the leadership like Reinhardt Heydrich were partly of Jewish ancestry

Yes, everyone knows Hitler was born in Braunau am Inn, 13 miles away from a village that Pope Ratzinger was born, ain't that interesting

Austrians are German people, and its simply called Reich(realm).
They belonged 1000 years together, until Napoleon decided to visit Germany with his grand army. This order ended in 1806, and from then on, it was not in the interest of mainly the british to allow a reunification under one roof.
Historically, the austrians are generally speaking a bavarian tribe, and Austria was called the Ostmark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tinyint
19-10-2011, 06:31 PM
The podcast I linked earlier.. 'WW2 a HuGe Conspiracy' ..incase you're interested but do not want to listen - here's the post from another forum of which it's based. The author puts forward a very interesting take on this part of our history. Very relevant to this thread. So, I reccommend..

http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23644

I'd recommend you to read here, it also deals with the natural person.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=165685

However, it contradicts some thesis of the thread you posted.

Mainly that the nazis run the world.

19. We demand the replacement of Roman Law, which serves a materialistic World Order, by German Law.
--NSDAP party program


Roman law= Capitis deminutio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All letters in capital...

connected with...

Cestui Que Vie Act I 1666
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Cha2/18-19/11


Cestui Que Vie Act II 1707
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/apgb/Ann/6/72

Its the reason why enemy of the UK(a roman church lease) and catholic church is still the Reich.

In the US it was an act of 1871, in the same year the Reich was born with anti-roman law legislation(eg BGB later) and other things such as banking(1873).

dantesrevival
19-10-2011, 06:36 PM
Because the Zionists created war with Germany because they'd simply opted out of the banking system and refused to pay national debt or compensation for WW1.

No Zionists backed the Nazis. They made Germany the most thoroughly anti-Zionist country in the World.



This may or may not be true as it is speculation, but that still don't make uncle Adolf benevolent now does it, the little skulls on the black uniforms are a visual clue :eek:

Also could the same be said for Italy and Japan then?

tinyint
19-10-2011, 06:40 PM
the little skulls on the black uniforms are a visual clue :eek:



http://forum.davidicke.com/image.php?u=44298&dateline=1280352933

:rolleyes::D

dantesrevival
19-10-2011, 06:41 PM
http://forum.davidicke.com/image.php?u=44298&dateline=1280352933

:rolleyes::D

I reversed the colours so all is well :cool:

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:24 PM
This may or may not be true as it is speculation, but that still don't make uncle Adolf benevolent now does it, the little skulls on the black uniforms are a visual clue :eek:

Also could the same be said for Italy and Japan then?

Dude, who would I rather be in 'charge'.

A guy who was a non smoker, non drinker, vegetarian animal lover or...

a drunken slob who took orders from Zionist play-makers and like Uncle Tony, pushed UK troops into needless war. Toughie that. :confused:

Read some history about Mussolini and his Italian Fascism. He didn't even like Hitler. I.F. was way ahead of it's time.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 07:34 PM
Because the Zionists created war with Germany because they'd simply opted out of the banking system and refused to pay national debt or compensation for WW1.

No Zionists backed the Nazis. They made Germany the most thoroughly anti-Zionist country in the World.

But, but, but.... Hitler was a Zionist!

He was a pawn in their game plan - without Hitler the Jews would not have been subjugated to the terrors they were and Israel would not be the place it is today on the back of it.

;)

tinyint
19-10-2011, 07:37 PM
But, but, but.... Hitler was a Zionist!


;)

How would you possibly prove that?

Just because the objective of the NSDAP was to expel the jews, doesn't make them zionist.

It was Herzl, who wrote the blueprint for Israel, decided by UK with the Balfour declaration.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:39 PM
But, but, but.... Hitler was a Zionist!

He was a pawn in their game plan - without Hitler the Jews would not have been subjugated to the terrors they were and Israel would not be the place it is today on the back of it.

;)

Man don't go there.

Hitler was in touch with Zionists who wanted to kick the Brits out of Palestine (a role we didn't even want).

Hitler made a deal, if he was to win the war he'd give the Zionists a state of their own in Palestine to house all the European Jews, this is a well documented fact for sure.

But that doesn't make him a Zionist or controlled by Zionists.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Man don't go there.

Hitler was in touch with Zionists who wanted to kick the Brits out of Palestine (a role we didn't even want).

Hitler made a deal, if he was to win the war he'd give the Zionists a state of their own in Palestine to house all the European Jews, this is a well documented fact for sure.

But that doesn't make him a Zionist or controlled by Zionists.

So Hitler wanted to give what is basically the original blueprint of Israel to the Zionists, and the UK did the exact same thing after the war was ended? And this is of no coincidence?

So Israel would have happened had he won the war - no different than what happened when he didn't, and somehow Hitler was not a Zionist? I think that all political leaders (and Hitler was a political leader, was he not?) are either Zionists, else they are corrupted by Zionists - i don't see that there is a difference.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 07:46 PM
Man don't go there.

.

Dang, i think i went there :eek:

:D

tinyint
19-10-2011, 07:46 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Balfour_declaration_unmarked.jpg

dantesrevival
19-10-2011, 07:48 PM
Dude, who would I rather be in 'charge'.

A guy who was a non smoker, non drinker, vegetarian animal lover or...



You almost make him sound Like a nice guy :eek:

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:49 PM
So Hitler wanted to give what is basically the original blueprint of Israel to the Zionists, and the UK did the exact same thing after the war was ended? And this is of no coincidence?

So Israel would have happened had he won the war - no different than what happened when he didn't, and somehow Hitler was not a Zionist? I think that all political leaders (and Hitler was a political leader, was he not?) are either Zionists, else they are corrupted by Zionists - i don't see that there is a difference.

It's relatively simple.

In a Nazi Europe, Jewish usury and banking wouldn't exist. Thus there'd be no wars waged in the name of oil, interest based mortgages, or any stamp of Zionism.

The difference is that the Allies won the war and cemented national debt, the stock market and investment banking.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:50 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/balfour_declaration_unmarked.jpg

+1000

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:52 PM
You almost make him sound Like a nice guy :eek:

I'm sure I could of gone to the chippy with Hitler, shared some chips and onion rings with vinegar, and had a good chat about politics. :D

bjornyvan
19-10-2011, 07:53 PM
You almost make him sound Like a nice guy :eek:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_d_rbOBApS8o/S-GEDJzwXQI/AAAAAAAAArk/UeafCaZC4oM/s1600/hitler_propaganda_photo_with_children.jpg

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 07:56 PM
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/106/azgxp1.jpg/

http://collections.yadvashem.org/photosarchive/s637-328/15086237010052463580.jpg

The most powerful man in europe at the time feeding young deer.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 08:00 PM
It's relatively simple.

In a Nazi Europe, Jewish usury and banking wouldn't exist. Thus there'd be no wars waged in the name of oil, interest based mortgages, or any stamp of Zionism.

The difference is that the Allies won the war and cemented national debt, the stock market and investment banking.

Replace the USA with the USE and a centralised power unit and there would of course be the same 'policing' of world affairs and the same wars to create political expansion and revenue for / from weapons - the name would be different, and maybe the flag, but we would still be in the same shit.

But it's all hypothetical.

My point was, that a centralised EU and a USE is the same now as it would have been - same football club, different owners, cheesier smile.

Blair (and every UK Gvt beyond Heath) simply sold the UK's sovereignty away to the EU - something that the soldiers who fought in WW11 and died to protect was sold to the same agenda.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 08:02 PM
Replace the USA with the USE and a centralised power unit and there would of course be the same 'policing' of world affairs and the same wars to create political expansion and revenue for / from weapons - the name would be different, and maybe the flag, but we would still be in the same shit.

But it's all hypothetical.

My point was, that a centralised EU and a USE is the same now as it would have been - same football club, different owners, cheesier smile.

Blair (and every UK Gvt beyond Heath) simply sold the UK's sovereignty away to the EU - something that the soldiers who fought in WW11 and died to protect was sold to the same agenda.

British soldiers in WWI & II fought against their very own interests, and protected the roman laws of UK, even spread them. The sad truth.

merlincove
19-10-2011, 08:05 PM
British soldiers in WWI & II fought against their very own interests, and protected the roman laws of UK, even spread them. The sad truth.

Yep, i can agree with that. But they did so blindly, because they didn't know the truth.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 08:08 PM
British soldiers in WWI & II fought against their very own interests, and protected the roman laws of UK, even spread them. The sad truth.

Funnily enough I spoke recently to a WW2 veteran who was at the Normandy landing.

Lovely old fella who I did a job for, when I asked him if he'd of fought for the way the UK has turned out he said and I quote 'No, I wouldn't of fought, I wouldn't of gone'.

Wonder why that was? :(

Thousands of British troops gave their young lives for a war that was constructed by Zionists and their country turned to the shithole it's become.

Do we owe these guys a debt? Absolutely. Lions, indeed led by Zionist scum. :mad:

tinyint
19-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Yep, i can agree with that. But they did so blindly, because they didn't know the truth.

"The first victim in a war is the truth."

Cant remember the person who said this.

It was indeed twice a war at the "rebels against the banking cabal".
The rebel has never been a party or person, but the concept of the German Reich. All english leaders of the 2nd 30 years war basically stated this, which has been made forgotten.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 08:10 PM
Yep, i can agree with that. But they did so blindly, because they didn't know the truth.

AND THAT IS because of the Zionist lies spread by Churchill and his cohorts.

They should be post-humoursly brought up for war crimes, not the Germans.

lizzy
19-10-2011, 08:10 PM
British soldiers in WWI & II fought against their very own interests, and protected the roman laws of UK, even spread them. The sad truth.

Germany was funded to fail. Hitlers' zionist Doctors' pumped him with pills to make him unstable. Had by some major miscalculation Hitler won and kept his sanity , the world would be a better place.

lizzy
19-10-2011, 08:11 PM
AND THAT IS because of the Zionist lies spread by Churchill and his cohorts.

They should be post-humoursly brought up for war crimes, not the Germans.

yup.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 08:27 PM
Germany was funded to fail. Hitlers' zionist Doctors' pumped him with pills to make him unstable. Had by some major miscalculation Hitler won and kept his sanity , the world would be a better place.

I disagree here.

The German people made Germany to what it became under Hitler, not some capital. The NSDAp and all the stuff just reactivated a sense of volk(people), a community sense, after the enforced depression, hostile takeover of key industries after WWI. People were starving, the French occupied the Rhine land to enforce reparations.

You need to see the full picture from 1871 onwards.
With the 1871 constitution, we were probably so much advanced we never met again until today, in terms of laws, banking etc that is why UK perceived the rise of the Reich as rival. The constitution didn't know political parties, the Reichsbank law of 1873 authoritatively defined money, gold/silver coins, gold backed paper money only above a high limit, prohibited speculation and payment in foreign currencies...
Germany has never depended on financial business, we always have had an industry based economy.

drakul
19-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Germany was funded to fail. Hitlers' zionist Doctors' pumped him with pills to make him unstable. Had by some major miscalculation Hitler won and kept his sanity , the world would be a better place.

Before we start singing the praises of the Nazis, don't close your eyes to what Hitler did to the SLAVS. He said they were a `SLAVE Race' - Untermenschen. Slavs existed to serve the Uber Volk. Slav lands and resources were subject to exploitation by Germany. Hitler made that crystal clear.

Over 20 million Slavs died in WWII. Slavs are the ones who deserve REPARATIONS not the Jews. Slavs fought the Germans. In Yugoslavia Hitler decreed 100 civilians would be shot for every German killed by the Resistance. In 1941 in the town of Krugjevac, German soldiers went into a school, marched out all the children and their teachers and shot them all. Over 3,000 people were shot in that one incident alone. Is this your hero?

graphic photos of Krugjevac executions -

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=43077.0

tinyint
19-10-2011, 09:42 PM
Before we start singing the praises of the Nazis, don't close your eyes to what Hitler did to the SLAVS. He said they were a `SLAVE Race' - Untermenschen. Slavs existed to serve the Uber Volk. Slav lands and resources were subject to exploitation by Germany. Hitler made that crystal clear.

Over 20 million Slavs died in WWII. Slavs are the ones who deserve REPARATIONS not the Jews. Slavs fought the Germans. In Yugoslavia Hitler decreed 100 civilians would be shot for every German killed by the Resistance. In 1941 in the town of Krugjevac, German soldiers went into a school, marched out all the children and their teachers and shot them all. Over 3,000 people were shot in that one incident alone. Is this your hero?

graphic photos of Krugjevac executions -

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=43077.0

13 million German were ethnically cleansed out of their homes after the war, 3 million died.
Such talk leads to nothing, and your source is ironically a zionist one.

If at all, eastern europeans deserve reparations for the horrific crimes of the bolshevists, where up to 50+ million people vanished, wrer desperately starved, relocated, shot...

drakul
19-10-2011, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=tinyint;1060297567]13 million German were ethnically cleansed out of their homes after the war, 3 million died.
Such talk leads to nothing, and your source is ironically a zionist one.

Are you saying Krugjevac didn't happen? Those pics are fake? That there was no Jasenovac death camp where hundreds of thousands of Serbs died? If you don't approve of the source I used, there are plenty of others.

As soon as Yugoslavia started to break up in the 1990's all those Nazi Croatians immediately went after the Serbs - ethnically cleansed 250,000 from what is now once again Hitler's `Greater Croatia`. Not to mention that NATO Germany was all to willing to perform another Hitler's Operation Punishment (bombing of Belgrade)

If at all, eastern europeans deserve reparations for the horrific crimes of the bolshevists, where up to 50+ million people vanished, wrer desperately starved, relocated, shot...

The only way you can make Hitler worship work is by closing your eyes to what he did to the Slavs. You do this by claiming that Hitler had to invade Russia because of the Jewish Communist threat. Does that also mean Hitler had to invade conquer and ruthlessly occupy Greece, Yugoslavia, Poland, Chechoslovakia, etc? - ALL non Communist countries.

It was Hitler's occupation of Eastern Europe and the Balkans that allowed the Soviet Union to invade and install Communist regimes there. Hitler ENABLED the Soviet Communist expansion into Europe.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:01 PM
[

Are you saying Krugjevac didn't happen? Those pics are fake? That there was no Jasenovac death camp where hundreds of thousands of Serbs died. And as soon as Yugoslavia started to break up all those Nazi Croatians immediately went after the Serbs - ethnically cleansed 250,000 from what is now once again Hitler's `Greater Croatia`.



The only way you can make Hitler worship work is by closing your eyes to what he did to the Slavs. You do this by claiming that Hitler had to invade Russia because of the Jewish Communist threat. Does that also mean Hitler had to invade and ruthlessly occupy Greece, Yugoslavia, Poland, Chechoslovakia, etc? - ALL non Communist countries.

It was Hitler's occupation of Eastern Europe and the Balkans that allowed the Soviet Union to invade and install Communist regimes there. Hitler ENABLED the Communist expansion.

I am saying, you are again blind on the bolshevik eye.
You don't really seem to understand the thinking of the general population in the 30ies not only in Germany, but in all the bolshevist attacked or occupied nations. From Finland to Romania.

I am simply not interested in the typical counting of dead, the Germans this... blabla.. it was war, the US/UK destroyed whole cities.... I mean we can go on with this on 100 pages more. It leads to nothing.

eternal_spirit
19-10-2011, 10:02 PM
Let's face it Europe was divided many took sides with Nazis to fight Communists. Japan and other countries had old and new scores to settle with the British.

eternal_spirit
19-10-2011, 10:05 PM
Before the war ethnic German civilians were being murdered and discriminated against in Poland/Danzig and Czechoslovakia (the latter which was a new country
formed from land stolen from Germany and had a puppet Jew govt which consisted of Jews from America so I read somewhere )

See Versailles treaty which included Jewish members influences. This was a reason why Hitler invaded to save the German people living in those lands who'd been separated from the Mother land (due to annexation Versaille's treaty) and to take on the Communists who'd been killing people before the war and sending them to the Jew created and run gulag death camps.



Following the end of World War 1, there was a Communist uprising in Berlin, Germany led by Rosa Luxemburg the creation of a Soviet in Bavaria led by Kurt Eisner and a Hungarian communist republic established by Bela Kun in 1919. (Germany's neighbour)

At the time there was great concern that all of Europe might fall under the banner of Bolshevism (A Jewish creation)

quotes from Winston Churchill. who said
The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.

end quote.

POINT? Communist Jews were trying to take over Germany way before the war.





The chapter on the Ukrainian liquidation of believers makes for very difficult reading. Imagine this: the Ukrainian Catholic Church had 2,772 parishes, 8 bishops, 4,119 churches and chapels, 142 monasteries and convents, 2,628 priests, 164 monks, 773 nuns, and 4 million laypeople. By the end of the largest suppression of believers in world history, the entire apparatus was reduced to: zero.






Look at the sweep of the century and you see that Christians, particularly Catholics, have in fact been the main victims of state violence in our century. For full documentation of these claims, I commend to you Robert Royal's remarkable new book, The Catholic Martyrs of the Twentieth Century: A Comprehensive World History (New York: Crossroad Publishing, 2000).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/martyrs.html





There was millions of Catholics including American fighting against Nazi Germany. There were also Jewish Nazis, 150,000 Waffen to start with. Jew killing Jew catholics killing catholic that's war.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:05 PM
Let's face it Europe was divided many took sides with Nazis to fight Communists. Japan and other countries had old and new scores to settle with the British.

And Mussolini stupidly invaded Africa, so that the Germans had to help him out in this pathetic undertaking. Then Italy changed even sides...

eternal_spirit
19-10-2011, 10:19 PM
And Mussolini stupidly invaded Africa, so that the Germans had to help him out in this pathetic undertaking. Then Italy changed even sides...

Indeed. Also, Italy was technically a Central Power in 1914 because it belonged to the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy. However, Italy refused to go to war because Austria was the aggressing country. Therefore Italy never actually fought on the Side of the Central Powers and in 1915 they changed to the Allied side and fought against Germany and Austria.

A century earlier
Britain/Germany/Islamic Turkish Ottoman empire allied against France (Napoleon the Sicilian/Italian?)

We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
Adolph Hitler

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:22 PM
Indeed. Also, Italy was technically a Central Power in 1914 because it belonged to the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy. However, Italy refused to go to war because Austria was the aggressing country. Therefore Italy never actually fought on the Side of the Central Powers and in 1915 they changed to the Allied side and fought against Germany and Austria.



The point is, where is the blame on Italy for invading Africa for example, as it was curiously charged at Nuremberg against the Germans by the warmongers?

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 10:28 PM
And Mussolini stupidly invaded Africa, so that the Germans had to help him out in this pathetic undertaking. Then Italy changed even sides...

After Il Duce was deposed of.

lightgiver
19-10-2011, 10:28 PM
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4314/batzioniwantyouroldnewl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/80/batzioniwantyouroldnewl.jpg/)

For others, it has taken on a more spiritual meaning—a safe spiritual homeland, like in heaven, or a kind of peace of mind in one's present life.

lobsang
19-10-2011, 10:29 PM
The most famous man in the world in 1945 goes into hiding in a remote Argentinian village?

You'd... think... someone... would have said... something... this... was.. you know... Adolf Hitler... you'd think.. after taking over half the world and gobbing off for 25 years .. that living in a wooden hut, bringing up kids, paid for from his stash of looted (presumably jewish) gold and silver, keeping stum would be quite difficult.

Give us the bestest piece of "hinting" evidence translated into english.

well the thing that is most recognisable about Hitler was the tash and hair style, remove the tash and change the hair would you recognize him? You have to bare in mind that South America was not particularly well developed in that time many of the locals at the time would not have access too news reels even if they wanted too. So it would not have been a hard place to hide especially if the right palms were greased and he had been funded by the Rothschild gang.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:30 PM
After Il Duce was deposed of.

Yes, still totally stupid of him to invade in Africa with such a weak military against the no 1 power, UK, to the horrors of OKW.

eternal_spirit
19-10-2011, 10:38 PM
The point is, where is the blame on Italy for invading Africa for example, as it was curiously charged at Nuremberg against the Germans by the warmongers?

I see. Hitler invades Poland the opposition declares war on Germany Stalin invades Poland the opposition allies with Stalin, Good ol' uncle fukin Joe eh.:(

Stalin and co helped destroy Germany then Berlin wall goes up. Now Uncle Joe Stalin and co become the allies enemy. yet the communist continued to gulagize people until
Stalin's death - while Communists being a supposed enemy why didn't the world get together and liberate the people from the Gulags...

What a web the reds do weave.

lizzy
19-10-2011, 10:42 PM
Thankyou ALL, tinyint, drakul and ES......so much death and division, then division and death.....it's always good to read you guys, I still learn and get a 'refresher'.......but I think we can agree on one important point.....ZIONIST JEWS are the PTB and Hitler was not the ogre we were brainwashed to see.

BTW, I don't think Hitler survived the bunker.......but who knows.

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 10:50 PM
Thankyou ALL, tinyint, drakul and ES......so much death and division, then division and death.....it's always good to read you guys, I still learn and get a 'refresher'.......but I think we can agree on one important point.....ZIONIST JEWS are the PTB and Hitler was not the ogre we were brainwashed to see.

BTW, I don't think Hitler survived the bunker.......but who knows.

No mention me spreading the truth but nevermind :o

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:52 PM
I see. Hitler invades Poland the opposition declares war on Germany Stalin invades Poland the opposition allies with Stalin, Good ol' uncle fukin Joe eh.:(

Stalin and co helped destroy Germany then Berlin wall goes up. Now Uncle Joe Stalin and co become the allies enemy. yet the communist continued to gulagize people until
Stalin's death - while Communists being a supposed enemy why didn't the world get together and liberate the people from the Gulags...

What a web the reds do weave.

The absolute crazy thing, the Weimar Republic(which was called by the people "Judenrepublik") never made so many concessions to British demands than Hitler did in the Polish question, ie annexed German territory.

tinyint
19-10-2011, 10:54 PM
No mention me spreading the truth but nevermind :o

Have this beautiful Nelumbo nucifera. :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Nelumno_nucifera_open_flower_-_botanic_garden_adelaide2.jpg

lizzy
19-10-2011, 10:54 PM
I see. Hitler invades Poland the opposition declares war on Germany Stalin invades Poland the opposition allies with Stalin, Good ol' uncle fukin Joe eh.:(

Stalin and co helped destroy Germany then Berlin wall goes up. Now Uncle Joe Stalin and co become the allies enemy. yet the communist continued to gulagize people until
Stalin's death - while Communists being a supposed enemy why didn't the world get together and liberate the people from the Gulags...

What a web the reds do weave.

aye.;)

lizzy
19-10-2011, 10:59 PM
No mention me spreading the truth but nevermind :o
;) .....thanku too hadaka_jimmy :) :)

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 11:02 PM
;) .....thanku too hadaka_jimmy :) :)

For my 4,000 post you're welcome lol. :D

lizzy
19-10-2011, 11:18 PM
For my 4,000 post you're welcome lol. :D
:D , hope u do 4000+ more.;)

hadaka_jimmy
19-10-2011, 11:22 PM
:D , hope u do 4000+ more.;)

Gassho :)

drakul
20-10-2011, 12:07 AM
I am saying, you are again blind on the bolshevik eye.
You don't really seem to understand the thinking of the general population in the 30ies not only in Germany, but in all the bolshevist attacked or occupied nations. From Finland to Romania.

I am simply not interested in the typical counting of dead, the Germans this... blabla.. it was war, the US/UK destroyed whole cities.... I mean we can go on with this on 100 pages more. It leads to nothing.

As soon as the Germans conquered Serbia in 1941, they gave the Fascist Croats the order to exterminate the Serbs. Serbs were ROYALISTS not Bolsheviks.

Nazis planned to cull/liquidate 50 million Slavs to create Lebensraum.

A few Hitler quotes about Slavic Untermenschen from Martin Bormann's Tabletalks -


When one contemplates this primitive (Slavic) world, one is convinced that nothing will drag it out of its indolence unless one compels the people to work. The Slavs are a mass of born slaves, who feel the need of a master.

As far as we are concerned, we may think that the Bolsheviks did us a great service. They began by distributing the land to the peasants, and we know what a frightful famine resulted. So they were obliged, of course, to re-establish a sort of feudal régime, to the benefit of the State. But there was this difference, that, whereas the old-style landlord knew something about farming, the political commissar, on the other hand, was entirely ignorant of such matters. So the Russians were just beginning to give their commissars appropriate instruction.

Even in Hungary, National Socialism could not be exported. In the mass, the Hungarian is as lazy as the Russian. He's by nature a man of the steppe. From this point of view, Horthy is right in thinking that if he abandoned the system of great estates, production would rapidly decline.

The German peasant is moved by a liking for progress. He thinks of his children. The Ukrainian peasant has no notion of duty.

The Russian space is our India. Like the English, we shall rule this empire with a handful of men.

It would be a mistake to claim to educate the native. All that we could give him would be a half-knowledge—just what's needed to conduct a revolution!

Unless other peoples, beginning with the Vikings, had imported some rudiments of organisation into Russian humanity, the Russians would still be living like rabbits. One cannot change rabbits into bees or ants. These insects have the faculty of living in a state of society—but rabbits haven't.

If left to himself, the Slav would never have emerged from the narrowest of family communities.

The Germanic race created the notion of the State. It incarnated this notion in reality, by compelling the individual to be a part of a whole. It's our duty continually to arouse the forces that slumber in our people's blood.

The Slav peoples are not destined to live a cleanly life. They know it, and we would be wrong to persuade them of the contrary. It was we who, in 1918, created the Baltic countries and the Ukraine. But nowadays we have no interest in maintaining Baltic States, any more than in creating an independent Ukraine. We must likewise prevent them from returning to Christianity. That would be a grave fault, for it would be giving them a form of organisation.

I am not a partisan, either, of a university at Kiev. It's better not to teach them to read. They won't love us for tormenting them with schools. Even to give them a locomotive to drive would be a mistake. And what stupidity it would be on our part to proceed to a distribution of land ! In spite of that, we'll see to it that the natives live better than they've lived hitherto. We'll find amongst them the human material that's indispensable for tilling the soil.

Ibid., p. 35

It's inconceivable that a higher people should painfully exist on a soil too narrow for it, whilst amorphous masses, which contribute nothing to civilisation, occupy infinite tracts of a soil that is one of the richest in the world. We painfully wrest a few metres from the sea, we torment ourselves cultivating marshes—and in the Ukraine an inexhaustibly fertile soil, with a thickness, in places, often metres of humus, lies waiting for us.

Ibid., p. 40

On the other hand, the offensive spirit that inspires the Russian, when he is advancing, does not surprise us. It was the same during the first World War, and the explanation for it is their bottomless stupidity. We've forgotten the bitter tenacity with which the Russians fought us during the first World War.

No organised Russian State must be allowed to exist west of that line. They are brutes, and neither Bolshevism nor Tsarism makes any difference—they are brutes in a state of nature.
Ibid., pp. 43 -44

All deliveries of machines, even if they're made abroad, will have to pass through a German middleman, in such a way that Russia will be supplied with no means of production whatsoever, except of absolute necessities.

Ibid., p. 52

The countries we invite to participate in our economic system should have their share in the natural riches of the Russian regions, and they should find an outlet there for their industrial production.

Ibid., p. 69

This Russian desert, we shall populate it. The immense spaces of the Eastern Front will have been the field of the greatest battles in history. We'll give this country a past. We'll take away its character of an Asiatic steppe, we'll Europeanise it. With this object, we have undertaken the construction of roads that will lead to the southernmost point of the Crimea and to the Caucasus. These roads will be studded along their whole length with German towns, and around these towns our colonists will settle.

As for the two or three million men whom we need to accomplish this task, we'll find them quicker than we think. They'll come from Germany, Scandinavia, the Western countries and America. I shall no longer be here to see all that, but in twenty years the Ukraine will already be a home for twenty million inhabitants besides the natives. In three hundred years, the country will be one of the loveliest gardens in the world.

…

We shan't settle in the Russian towns, and we'll let them fall to pieces without intervening. And, above all, no remorse on this subject! We're not going to play at children's nurses; we're absolutely without obligations as far as these people are concerned. To struggle against the hovels, chase away the fleas, provide German teachers, bring out newspapers—very little of that for us! We'll confine ourselves, perhaps, to setting up a radio transmitter, under our control. For the rest, let them know just enough to understand our highway signs, so that they won't get themselves run over by our vehicles!


http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65285

tinyint
20-10-2011, 12:19 AM
As soon as the Germans conquered Serbia in 1941, they gave the Fascist Croats the order to exterminate the Serbs. Serbs were ROYALISTS not Bolsheviks.

Nazis planned to cull/liquidate 50 million Slavs to create Lebensraum.

A few Hitler quotes about Slavic Untermenschen from Martin Bormann's Tabletalks -



Ah, the "table talks".

I see.

Gespräche mit Hitler – Wikipedia

Even zionpedia admit they are fake. The Hitler-quotations in the Book are not quotable or even regarded a forgery.

Prove of the plan to kill 50 million slavs. my dear?
Did they, or did Stalin kill 50+ million, and this starting long before Hitler?
What about the illegal annexation of 1/3 of Germany to this day? The 13 million expelled? What about the relocation of entire populations in Stalins terror empire? What about the extermination of the kulaks(peasants) and other "undesirable" subject suspected "counter revolutionaries"?
You are really entering thin ice here.

For the rest as I said, war is war, and of course the soviets suffered heavy losses.
Keep in mind the red army did only consist of estimated 1/2 of Russians, the rest was trukish or mongol related asians.
Russians are technically Germanic people... vikings who explored the rivers from the north, later mixed with encountered locals.

amaralsright
20-10-2011, 08:24 AM
Ah, the "table talks".

I see.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gespr%C3%A4che_mit_Hitler

Even zionpedia admit they are fake

David Irving, the foremost expert on WWII Nazi archives said the early table talks were genuine and the later ones (1945) were invented.

He knows because before he wrote his Hitler book he had a massive index system of events taken from the archives that took years to compile.

He KNEW the 1945 stuff was invented when he cross checked and he personally took Heinrich Heim to task about it and got him to admit he made the latter up.

He talks about it here.

David Irving - The faking of Adolf Hitler for history (part 1) - YouTube

Good video actually.

hadaka_jimmy
20-10-2011, 08:57 AM
David Irving, the foremost expert on WWII Nazi archives said the early table talks were genuine and the later ones (1945) were invented.

He knows because before he wrote his Hitler book he had a massive index system of events taken from the archives that took years to compile.

He KNEW the 1945 stuff was invented when he cross checked and he personally took Heinrich Heim to task about it and got him to admit he made the latter up.

He talks about it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZZsCN8Y_g

Good video actually.

Irving is very good, regardless of anyone's view on his holocaust questioning.

tinyint
20-10-2011, 09:11 AM
David Irving, the foremost expert on WWII Nazi archives said the early table talks were genuine and the later ones (1945) were invented.

He knows because before he wrote his Hitler book he had a massive index system of events taken from the archives that took years to compile.

He KNEW the 1945 stuff was invented when he cross checked and he personally took Heinrich Heim to task about it and got him to admit he made the latter up.

He talks about it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZZsCN8Y_g

Good video actually.


The wiki entry runs in the category "distortion of history ". I am surprised the german entry made it through the censorship.


Why isn't there any other language entry? Nobody able in the english world to write down the findings? Amazing.

David Irving in my view lost any credibility after he gave in zionist demands and pressure, after his inquisition trial. I consider him nowadays a tamed poodle, which is sad, since he knows the full truth.

hadaka_jimmy
20-10-2011, 09:15 AM
The wiki entry runs in the category "distortion of history ". I am surprised the german entry made it through the censorship.


Why isn't there any other language entry? Nobody able in the english world to write down the findings? Amazing.

David Irving in my view lost any credibility after he gave in zionist demands and pressure, after his inquisition trial. I consider him nowadays a tamed poodle, which is sad, since he knows the full truth.

Absolutely. In a recent Telegraph interview he said he no longer believed that Jews weren't gassed to death.

them
20-10-2011, 10:35 AM
And why would he appoint Admiral Dönitz to be his successor? A navy admiral? Highly unusual, considering invading armies.

Spite. A pernicious hatred towards the leaders of the services who he felt had let him down badly; even though it was him who called all the shots..

Adolf actively encouraged those around him in positions of power to top themselves rather than live with the humiliation of surrender and total, all consuming, defeat. Why wouldn't he have followed his own advice? You're an unusual German to be clinging to the belief he survived and the Joos never found him..

tinyint
20-10-2011, 10:39 AM
Spite. A pernicious hatred towards the leaders of the services who he felt had let him down badly; even though it was him who called all the shots..

Adolf actively encouraged those around him in positions of power to top themselves rather than live with the humiliation of surrender and total, all consuming, defeat. Why wouldn't he have followed his own advice? You're an unusual German to be clinging to the belief he survived and the Joos never found him..

I simply broke certain taboo, dogma and allied brainwashing, like others did.

On February 21, 2009 Mahler was sentenced to six years imprisonment without possibility at reduction or bail, by a Munich court of justice; during the verdict the judge said that Mahler had proven "not able to be re-educated" and declared that he as a judge should stop the "nationalist rattle" and "nonsense spread" by Horst Mahler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Mahler




And why this bad habit of spelling jews so zionist?
I always have a screaming ADL megaphone in mind when seeing such spelling.

amaralsright
20-10-2011, 10:51 AM
David Irving in my view lost any credibility after he gave in zionist demands and pressure, after his inquisition trial. I consider him nowadays a tamed poodle, which is sad, since he knows the full truth.

Watch the video, it's quite recent. He doesn't talk nicely about "the enemy".

As for what he said after he was released, well I guess 3 years in prison does things to a man.

At least he gave it a go.

And he does know his stuff... in great detail.

eternal_spirit
20-10-2011, 10:53 AM
Spite. A pernicious hatred towards the leaders of the services who he felt had let him down badly; even though it was him who called all the shots..

Adolf actively encouraged those around him in positions of power to top themselves rather than live with the humiliation of surrender and total, all consuming, defeat. Why wouldn't he have followed his own advice? You're an unusual German to be clinging to the belief he survived and the Joos never found him..

How very Japanese. Hari kari (spelling?) Apparently Hitler expressed admiration for the Japs.

januspolanski
25-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Interesting review from a sceptic.

As a journalist, I'm a natural cynic, and when I first got my hands on a copy of Grey Wolf, I was preparing to rip it apart. It was going to be simple job. The co-authors were claiming that somehow they had unearthed a truth. A truth which every other leading historian had failed to do over the last six decades. They had spent five years of their lives proving - they say - that the most evil, despised and hated man of the 20th century, Adolph Hitler, didn't die by his own hand in his dingy bunker under Berlin in 1945. Oh no. According to this pair, Hitler and many of his henchmen escaped to South America. The hideous dictator - murderer of six million Jews - died in 1962 in bed, peacefully. Oh yeh. Sure!
Before I go on, I must declare an interest here. I've known one of the authors, Gerrard Williams, for many years. We were colleagues at Reuters Television and he is a very accomplished journalist. Our friendship was going to make it all the more difficult to pan his book, but it had to be done.... Or so I thought.
Well, I finished it last night and it's simply a triumph. My natural scepticism has been well and truly blown apart. In the words of that 60's boy band, The Monkees, I'm a believer.
The staggering attention to detail is what you first notice about Grey Wolf. Every fact, every argument, is checked, double-checked and cross-referenced. Nothing has been left to chance. You can see why it took five years to put all this together. It's journalism at its best and is a thumping good read to boot.
It would be a brilliant novel on the lines of a Robert Harris classic, but this is not fantasy. The authors truly believe they have discovered something which is going to change history and who am I to argue? The claims may seem fantastic, incredible even, but they all make perfect sense. Hitler's dramatic escape is explained and proved all the way from Berlin to Bariloche, in Southern Argentina. It's a rattling good read and the fact that there's a very good chance this is was what really happened makes it all the better.
There's always going to be an element of doubt, but the authors have unearthed more facts than anyone else ever has about what happened to the Fuhrer and his horrible henchmen. It's going to cause a lot of controversy but it's one that simply has to be read - tremendous stuff.

januspolanski
17-12-2011, 10:33 PM
Just got the book on Thursday. Interesting read so far, not really got into the juicy bits yet.

Felt strange buying a book about Hitler in the bookshop. Could sense the staff members unease as if I was buying Mein Kamfe lol.

The authors talk about how they were in a Tourist place talking to a young woman and telling her where they were travelling to and the young woman said,"oh you can visit the Hotel where Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun stayed after the War". They didn't even tell her what the were doing or who they were etc. Quite amazing that they come across someone who says something so matter of fact like that.

From what I gather so far some kind of deal may have been struck by the West after Martin Boorman threatened to destroy all the Historic artwork that the Germans had amassed whilst conquering Europe.

Seems that Hitler was replaced by a double for a couple of days before his alleged suicide in order to give him time to escape.

Also quite amazing that in Argentina today (population 42 million) there are approximatley 3 million Germans or citizens of Germanic descent. Some of the towns and villages that the authors visited were as if they were actually in Germany itself. Same house architecture, German street signs etc.

Can't wait to read the whole thing.

smoke n mirrors
18-12-2011, 02:03 AM
Grey Wolf Download (http://ebooksfreedownload.org/2011/11/book-grey-wolf-the-escape-of-adolf-hitler-audiobook-online-free.html)

upsetbrit
18-12-2011, 02:07 AM
Considering half of the war was basically one big orgy of propaganda being shoved down peoples throats on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Herr Hitler escaped or was evacuated overseas.

History books are written by the victor, and always to put themselves in a good light.

space man
18-12-2011, 02:38 AM
Link?

A link with some convincing information would be nice.

Do the slightest fucking armchair research stupid, it made the fucking mainstream news.

amaralsright
18-12-2011, 07:02 AM
Do the slightest fucking armchair research stupid, it made the fucking mainstream news.

Read the fucking post that you part quoted.