Crossbows

[northernmonkey]

As guns are not legal here in the UK, I am thinking about buying a crossbow for self defense and hunting if I needed to in the future. Can anyone reccomend a good crossbow and how effective are they compared to a gun?

[greenleaf]

My daughter does a little Archery..

There are some laws to TIC:
Crossbows

Source: Crossbows Act 1987

Offence:
Section 1 - (Sale): It is an offence for any person to sell or let on hire a crossbow or part of a crossbow to a person under the age of 17.

Section 2 - (Purchase): It is an offence for any person under the age of 17 to buy or hire a crossbow or part of a crossbow.

Section 3 - (Possession): It is an offence for any person under the age of 17 to have with him a crossbow which is capable of discharging a missile, or parts of a crossbow which together can be assembled to form a crossbow capable of discharging a missile.

linked: You do not need a license to use or own a crossbow and with proper use they can be great fun to use, especially with a group of friends on private property. However, you do need to be aware that their misuse can get both you and those around you into an awful lot of trouble. (http://www.solware.co.uk/archery-crossbows/crossbow.shtml)

This is where my daughter bought hers from (http://www.bestcrossbows.co.uk/Crossbow-uk-s/1.htm)

This is the one she bought (http://www.bestcrossbows.co.uk/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=497)

[steevo]

Greenleaf, what does "red dot" mean when in a desription of the crossbow, does it mean it has a red laser for when you are aiming ? Also, are all bolts a standard size ?

My other half is always saying we should go to do abit of archery in our lesuire time (she used to do archery in her youth) but crossbows LOOK more appealing to me and are not as big to carry round I guess.

[them]

I would suggest having a look at the Barnett site as a starting point, then you can get some ideas about what type of bow might suit you before broadening your search elsewhere.

http://www.barnettcrossbows.com/compoundcrossbows/index.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow

http://www.worldcrossbow.com/3ddeer.jpg

[greenleaf]

Greenleaf, what does "red dot" mean when in a desription of the crossbow, does it mean it has a red laser for when you are aiming ? Also, are all bolts a standard size ? .

Red Dot is the laser sighting and there are different types.. we just have a cheap one, but you can get triple light laser.... The Bolts are various sizes... we use little 10" at about £6 a pack of 10(but we do have some 6 " and if you are willing to pay a few ££$$ then you can get Carbon Impact XLT Ultra Bolt 20"..too pricey for me).

My other half is always saying we should go to do abit of archery in our lesuire time (she used to do archery in her youth) but crossbows LOOK more appealing to me and are not as big to carry round I guess.

I think my daughters first one was about 80lb...now her new one is about 150lb... A lot better than the 200 + ones when it was done a few years ago..

[steevo]

Thanks for the info Greenleaf :)

[northernmonkey]

This is the one she bought

Do you reckon that is powerfull enough to kill a deer? £70 seems a good price, don't see the point in spending £300+ if thats good enough for hunting.

[greenleaf]

Do you reckon that is powerfull enough to kill a deer? £70 seems a good price, don't see the point in spending £300+ if thats good enough for hunting.

you could kill whatever moved with this baby..

from their page
Description


FEATURES:
FIELD TO USE 110 YARDS
NOT A TOY......
IF YOU WANT ADDITIONAL ACCESSORIES YOU CAN JUST BUY THEM!!!
Safety mechanism
Auto safety when cocking
ARROWS GO 200+ fps AT 110 YARDS WITH pinpoint accuracy
REGULAR CROSSBOW DRAW WEIGHT 150LBS WITH 1 FIBERGLASS BOW 2 ALUMINUM ARROWS. THIS IS A HIGH POWER CROSSBOW INTENDED TO BE USED BY THOSE WHO ARE 18 OR OVER.


HUNTING
SHOOTING PRACTICE
HOME PROTECTION
FUN
CAMPING
YOU ARE LOOKING AT OFFICIAL CROSSBOW PACKED
IN THE BOX THAT COMES WITH 2 METAL ARROWS IN THE BOX PACKED..

[northernmonkey]

What size arrows does it use?, so I know what to stock up on.

[cloudgazer]

Get a recurve bow! Because these you can actually make yourself, if you learn from a survival book or probably online too. These are the more primitive bows and I know that if you buy one you can get up to at least 45 lbs. draw weight. I have one that is only 30-35 draw weight, but that is enough to kill. You just have to be closer and stealthy than if you had a crossbow or a compound bow.

[cruise4]

Recurves are also easier to re-string in the wild and there are designs where the bow folds down against the handle. Others have a stock that can be used for rapid re-pull. Not that I'm in any way an expert.

I have heard that the small pistol type bows have a problem with the arrows being so small they can be pulled off flight unless really close. Anyone know more about this?

[swoarg]

i would hurry up an get one the way things are going they will soon be illegal as for shooting animals if you have no expeirence then i would look at making traps you would probably starve before getting to within killing range of a dear with a crossbow or a bow

[joyful]

Do you reckon that is powerfull enough to kill a deer? £70 seems a good price, don't see the point in spending £300+ if thats good enough for hunting.

A 250lb one is recommended for deer.

[cloudgazer]

i would hurry up an get one the way things are going they will soon be illegal as for shooting animals if you have no expeirence then i would look at making traps you would probably starve before getting to within killing range of a dear with a crossbow or a bow

This is a good point. Traps are essential. I know that hunting the "predator way" like stalking an animal, takes a lot of stealth. I think if you wait up in a tree, that is another way, but then you still have to wait around for a while. It's a good idea to figure out deer paths and where the herds go and when. Around my house deer tend to follow the same paths every year actually. Yes deer walk through my yard frequently, and I don't even live in a true rural area.

A simple trap is digging a deep hole in the ground and then covering the surface with twigs, dead grass, whatever, to make it appear like a flat surface.

Thinking about this makes me sad for whatever animal falls into the trap tho :(

[mindsplinter]

Good point about the traps, Cloudgazer, there's also a simple and inexpensive trap called a snare. These days they're fashioned from steal rope and set in well tracked areas attached to trees. They aren't dangerous to humans because they're easy to get out of but rabbits, and deer panic and become trapped. Not a pleasant thing to discuss but then is when you use the cross bow, a very fine tool with no sound. the preceeding is for informational purposes and does not reflect the views of this writer

[cloudgazer]

Thanks for the info mindsplinter. Here's another thing you may or may not know about. Atlatls or spear-throwers. Here's a video of one being used. Tho I can't get it to work because I'm using linux not windows, and you need quicktime for this.

http://www.atlatl.com/atlatlvideo.html

http://www.atlatl.com/images/northern-plains-atlatl.gif

Under acceleration by the Atlatl, the Dart flexes and compresses like a spring, storing energy to be used to push itself away from the Atlatl and launching at velocities that easily exceed 100 mph.

[swoarg]

if we ever end up in a situation in the uk were we have to find our own food then i should think there will be alot of people that will starve to death theres not many peeps in the uk know how to gut an cook a fish never mind a deer
but if i had a choice i would go for the cross bow
warning deer being killed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaEWhGHfCJA

[them]

I think that Deer would be the target of a settled hunter or one with many mouths to feed.

If you're on the move (as would be sensible in desperate times) killing a Deer would be pointless. Unless you're starving and after a quick fix, or, as above, have many mouths to feed.

Birds are the the way forward in the UK. Enough to keep an individual going without unnecessary waste, easy enough to carry if you have to move fast.

There's a good reason why most archaeological fire pits contain the bones of Birds & Fish.. we should learn the lessons left in our past. The big game hunters in antiquity were settled with whole communities to feed.

You can imagine your partners face upon your return from a hunting trip as you lug a Deer back into your camp whilst trying to avoid anarchists, meatheads, thugs, villains, ex-military and roaming bands of vagabonds!

"What the fuck am I supposed to do with that?"

They might say..

"Why didn't you catch a fucking Wood Pigeon?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/content/images/2005/01/13/2005_feature_bird_watching_woodpigeon_gallery_300x 470.jpg

[swoarg]

wood pigeon tastes great but they take some shooting they must have a sixth sense air rifle for me is a great tool for pigeons not sure if that foto is a wood pigeon though the town pigeons taste a bit bitter aperantly

[them]

wood pigeon tastes great but they take some shooting they must have a sixth sense air rifle for me is a great tool for pigeons not sure if that foto is a wood pigeon though the town pigeons taste a bit bitter aperantly

Being able to successfully hunt Wood Pigeons with a weapon is a great measure of ones hunting ability :)

I would always go for trapping in a survival scenario and although the Larsen trap in the link below is very robust, it indicates how easily they could be constructed on a smaller scale.

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/html/sections/articles/various/larsen-trap.html

You can also prop a cage up (shopping basket) on a bit of wood with string attached. Bait the area underneath the trap and wait until a bird (any bird in a survival situation) walks in before pulling on the string to close the trap.

[them]

not sure if that foto is a wood pigeon though the town pigeons taste a bit bitter aperantly

It is a Wood Pigeon. The Pigeons you find in town are, in fact, Doves ;)

Wood Pigeon Columba palumbus
http://www.fssbirding.org.uk/Images/Wood%20Pigeon%2005w.jpg

Rock Dove Columba livia
http://birdsolutions-southeast.co.uk/images/FeralPigeon.jpg

All of the 'Pigeons' you see in towns are feral relatives of the Rock Dove.

[swoarg]

thanks for that info that might explain why they dont tast nice wood pigeon is one of the most tastiest birds i have had take the breast off dice season an pan fry yum yum

[swoarg]

Being able to successfully hunt Wood Pigeons with a weapon is a great measure of ones hunting ability :)

.

ur not wrong there hunting a pigeon with a standed powerd air rifle takes alot of skill an stealf but good sport and practise for if that day ever comes not to sure about eating any bird though i think seagulls an adult crows are of the menu not that have tried them but i am sure there not good to eat

[danucrom]

You can make your own high power crossbow that will put a bolt through a solid door with a leaf spring and a bit of know how.

[cheeney1]

As guns are not legal here in the UK, I am thinking about buying a crossbow for self defense and hunting if I needed to in the future. Can anyone reccomend a good crossbow and how effective are they compared to a gun?

I Recommend The Barnett Predator.......150 Pound Breaking Strain but remember get yourself a crossbow .a compound Bow you arm it yourself with just pulling the bow string back

The One i had, had came with a lever big pain in the Arse For Reloading Quickly.........:rolleyes:

[mido]

Let's ban crossbows

[cheeney1]

Let's ban crossbows


lets ban All free thinking...................:rolleyes:

[joyful]

Let's hang people who suggest disarming the citizenry. Hitler did it, Stalin did it, Mao Tse Tueng did it, and guess what, they then killed millions of people who could now not defend themselves against the outlaw government. I think one evil/deluded gun ban supporter is worth sacrificing for the life and liberty of 80,000,000 people.

[empyblessing]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The guns in the hands of the American people create the largest standing army in the world. An invasion by force of mainland America is impossible. I believe that this amendment is what is holding the darkness at bay, not only in America but throughout the world. Without firearms in the hands of the good people, only the evil ones will have them. It is the only reason I'm an American.

I'm not familiar with crossbows, but have you considered a tazer for protection?

[homebrew1973]

Sorry for raking up an old thread as it were but I`d thought I`d add my tuppence ha`penny worth (if that)..

I`ve recently got a pistol crossbow which has a draw weight of 80lb and shoots at 160 feet per second and I`m not joking when I say it`s powerful! I mean shooting straight through sheets of hardwood from 30 feet away then being embedded into a solid wall in my flat certainly makes you think.. cost less than £30 though ;) Now if only kids weren`t on their summer holidays I could take it to nearby woodland for target practice.

[element]

Wow, it's just incredible to see the amount of demoniac influence some people have gotten.
Hunting animals for no reason!

[homebrew1973]

Wow, it's just incredible to see the amount of demoniac influence some people have gotten.
Hunting animals for no reason!
From a personal point of view I didn`t get it for hunting animals. The nearest I`ll ever get to that would be to use it in non-lethal self-defence in this flat against burglars and such like. One thing that worries me regarding them though was the mindset of an old mate visiting me the other day and after he beat me at my "makeshift shooting gallery" asked to borrow it to shoot a convicted paedophile :eek: I of course said NO.

It`s for target practice at things like empty cans and maybe even pictures of people I don`t like (for a giggle and certainly to remove a little frustration ;))

[none]

I bought this one >> http://www.buydefenderblades.com/c=fAkQ0TtwBD9t6fzmlNcAWCI33/product/2978-5001/250A1TC_Camouflage_Crossbow_Brand_New_Hunting_Cros sbow.html <<
For someone on a budget, it's not too expensive and boy, is it powerfull! I bought mine for hunting (when the time comes that we have to), and for personal/family protection (when the time comes that we need it).

[the itinerant shrubber]

I was looking into buying a crossbow recently but then thought better of it. I used to have a pistol crossbow that I used to take pheasent with.
You need to spend a good 3-400 quid on a decent hunting crossbow like this one.http://www.redrae.co.uk/barnett_crossbows_revolution_page.htm
This is what you need to hunt Deer and Rabbit.For rabbit it needs to be especially powerful.The more powerful the crossbow,the shorter the time between the rabbit hearing the quarrel loose and the quarrel hitting it. If you have a slow crossbow,you'll just end up hitting the ground where the rabbit was just a second ago before it took off.

I decided against a crossbow in the end becouse its impractical for long-term survival.Too many moving parts to go wrong and would need replacing plus its not easy making your own quarrels.
Instead I'm getting this http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Field_Archery.html
60lb draw weight plus its a take-down. Arrows are easy to fashion and I'm going to order broadheads from the states.
Remember,if you want to hunt deer,you need a modern broadhead which will cause massive heamoraging and take the deer down quickly. A target quarrel or arrow will suffice for rabbit and bird.
I've always been into archery and a bow is a much simpler weapon and elegant weapon and shafts and fletchings are straightforward to make once you get the knack. Hunting large game is also more humane than a rifle alot of the time.

[none]

I was looking into buying a crossbow recently but then thought better of it. I used to have a pistol crossbow that I used to take pheasent with.
You need to spend a good 3-400 quid on a decent hunting crossbow like this one.http://www.redrae.co.uk/barnett_crossbows_revolution_page.htm
This is what you need to hunt Deer and Rabbit.For rabbit it needs to be especially powerful.The more powerful the crossbow,the shorter the time between the rabbit hearing the quarrel loose and the quarrel hitting it. If you have a slow crossbow,you'll just end up hitting the ground where the rabbit was just a second ago before it took off.

I decided against a crossbow in the end becouse its impractical for long-term survival.Too many moving parts to go wrong and would need replacing plus its not easy making your own quarrels.
Instead I'm getting this http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Field_Archery.html
60lb draw weight plus its a take-down. Arrows are easy to fashion and I'm going to order broadheads from the states.
Remember,if you want to hunt deer,you need a modern broadhead which will cause massive heamoraging and take the deer down quickly. A target quarrel or arrow will suffice for rabbit and bird.
I've always been into archery and a bow is a much simpler weapon and elegant weapon and shafts and fletchings are straightforward to make once you get the knack. Hunting large game is also more humane than a rifle alot of the time.

So I have just wasted my money on the crossbow I bought?

[stickwhistler]

So I have just wasted my money on the crossbow I bought?

Depends if you practice or not.
Don't practice and the answer is yes.

The advantage with a crossbow is that it is easier for a
relatively untrained person to be accurate enough to .....

I shoot 40lb take-down re curve for club target practice,
with all the rods, weights and balances etc and have actually
won competitions, and came 6th to a national champion,
only 60 points in between us, so I'm a bit good :D
I also have my own target range of 50 metres to play in.

I also shoot a 70lb Grozer recurve one piece bare bow.

If gnats had nuts, I could shoot the left or right one at 18 metres,
with the target bow.
The Grozer = not so accurate, but lots of fun, and quicker to get to use,
grouping within say 5 cm at 18 metres.

Both the above take practice everyday.
At least 3 dozen arrows every day!
Even a couple of days away = larger grouping
e.g. from a tea plate to a dinner plate at 50 metres.

I also have a crossbow - 150lb.
I'm not too fussed over the accuracy because it's fun,
and other people can get on target with it fairly quickly
i.e. 10 minutes practice, and they can shoot it well enough.

A bow takes a lot longer to get as good.

Also if you're going hunting,
when you draw the bow, I'll bet your prey goes away.
The crossbow can be cocked for hours, and shot without
any movement from you - except your finger :)

So - horses for courses!
The crossbow won't take anywhere near the practice a bow will.
So if you haven't got time to shoot a bow every day,
a crossbow can be left for weeks, and you'll still either
hit or get a near miss, which may be good enough
e.g. a shot to the shoulder may hit the head or abdomen.
If you stay within say 50 metres, the arrow/bolt travels
faster than the speed of sound, so the target won't hear the twang.


Two other points.
1) Hunting with bows is illegal in the UK.

2) Don't shoot a bird in a tree unless you like climbing
'cos it'll get pinned there - you'll lose your arrow/bolt and yer supper
If you had to shoot a bird in a tree - use a blunt to knock it out
of the tree, and collect it from the ground.

To make crossbow bolts, use an aluminium arrow.
Cut it in half. You now have 2 bolts.
One with a pointy end, the other with vanes.
Buy another pointy bit for the vane ended one
and break the nock off.
Buy a nock and vanes for the pointy ended bolt.
Fit according to need.

Or ... see evilbay.

[marpat]

As guns are not legal here in the UK, I am thinking about buying a crossbow for self defense and hunting if I needed to in the future. Can anyone reccomend a good crossbow and how effective are they compared to a gun?

Why not get an air rifle. They are good enough to hunt small game with. I have used ones against pidgeon, rabbits, crows, squirrels, etc. If you get a springer or HE gas ram then you dont have to worry about pump gear. A crossbow is also limited in range but a standard 12ft/lb air rifle can easily kill a rabbit at 50m.

[none]

Depends if you practice or not.
Don't practice and the answer is yes.

The advantage with a crossbow is that it is easier for a
relatively untrained person to be accurate enough to .....

I shoot 40lb take-down re curve for club target practice,
with all the rods, weights and balances etc and have actually
won competitions, and came 6th to a national champion,
only 60 points in between us, so I'm a bit good :D
I also have my own target range of 50 metres to play in.

I also shoot a 70lb Grozer recurve one piece bare bow.

If gnats had nuts, I could shoot the left or right one at 18 metres,
with the target bow.
The Grozer = not so accurate, but lots of fun, and quicker to get to use,
grouping within say 5 cm at 18 metres.

Both the above take practice everyday.
At least 3 dozen arrows every day!
Even a couple of days away = larger grouping
e.g. from a tea plate to a dinner plate at 50 metres.

I also have a crossbow - 150lb.
I'm not too fussed over the accuracy because it's fun,
and other people can get on target with it fairly quickly
i.e. 10 minutes practice, and they can shoot it well enough.

A bow takes a lot longer to get as good.

Also if you're going hunting,
when you draw the bow, I'll bet your prey goes away.
The crossbow can be cocked for hours, and shot without
any movement from you - except your finger :)

So - horses for courses!
The crossbow won't take anywhere near the practice a bow will.
So if you haven't got time to shoot a bow every day,
a crossbow can be left for weeks, and you'll still either
hit or get a near miss, which may be good enough
e.g. a shot to the shoulder may hit the head or abdomen.
If you stay within say 50 metres, the arrow/bolt travels
faster than the speed of sound, so the target won't hear the twang.


Two other points.
1) Hunting with bows is illegal in the UK.

2) Don't shoot a bird in a tree unless you like climbing
'cos it'll get pinned there - you'll lose your arrow/bolt and yer supper
If you had to shoot a bird in a tree - use a blunt to knock it out
of the tree, and collect it from the ground.

To make crossbow bolts, use an aluminium arrow.
Cut it in half. You now have 2 bolts.
One with a pointy end, the other with vanes.
Buy another pointy bit for the vane ended one
and break the nock off.
Buy a nock and vanes for the pointy ended bolt.
Fit according to need.

Or ... see evilbay.

Thanks for all the info stickwhistler, I'll get practicing.

[the itinerant shrubber]

So I have just wasted my money on the crossbow I bought?

NO,it's just a personal rule of mine-if I cant fix it with without the need for modern equipment or services then I wont have it but as long as civilisation is still together there's no reason why a crossbow wont last a lifetime.

Stickwhistler made a good point concerning that when you draw the bow,the quarry might flee. With a crossbow,you can hunt like it were a rifle.With a bow it does take alot more skill but I think the effort is worth it. With a bow you have to learn to trust stalk. This is how I used to hunt. It requires that you stay in one area for a good few hours and let all the animals accept you as a non-threat.
I've had Hare,deer,Pheasent and foxes walk up to me.Fellow predators like foxes have walked past me with a pigeon in their mouths and given me what we humans would call a friendly nod and carried on their business.

With trust stalking you begin by moving a very small part of your body and then very,very gradually begin to make larger movement like scratching your face and act as if you're grazing,all the time ignoring the quarry. Your mind has to be filled with peace and love which in that environment is easy to do.You can even do it with humans.
Even if you dont hunt,this is the best way to understand and respect your fellow creatures. .Alot of primitive society's used this method and it's far more effective than striding through the forest arrogantly believing that you're superior to the creatures around you like the typical great,white hunter.

[none]

NO,it's just a personal rule of mine-if I cant fix it with without the need for modern equipment or services then I wont have it but as long as civilisation is still together there's no reason why a crossbow wont last a lifetime.

Stickwhistler made a good point concerning that when you draw the bow,the quarry might flee. With a crossbow,you can hunt like it were a rifle.With a bow it does take alot more skill but I think the effort is worth it. With a bow you have to learn to trust stalk. This is how I used to hunt. It requires that you stay in one area for a good few hours and let all the animals accept you as a non-threat.
I've had Hare,deer,Pheasent and foxes walk up to me.Fellow predators like foxes have walked past me with a pigeon in their mouths and given me what we humans would call a friendly nod and carried on their business.

With trust stalking you begin by moving a very small part of your body and then very,very gradually begin to make larger movement like scratching your face and act as if you're grazing,all the time ignoring the quarry. Your mind has to be filled with peace and love which in that environment is easy to do.You can even do it with humans.
Even if you dont hunt,this is the best way to understand and respect your fellow creatures. .Alot of primitive society's used this method and it's far more effective than striding through the forest arrogantly believing that you're superior to the creatures around you like the typical great,white hunter.

So.... will this (http://www.buydefenderblades.com/product/2978-5001/250A1TC_Camouflage_Crossbow_Brand_New_Hunting_Cros sbow.html) cheap crossbow suffice for now, to learn with, until I can afford a 'better' one.
It seems/feels pretty powerful to my untrained senses. I guess I need to get out and try to get a few rabbitts and the like to find out for sure (I know hunting with a crossbow is illegal. I won't tell if you don't ;) ).
And .... thank you for the information as well the itinerant shrubber. I am on a severely limited budget and this is the one I have for now, so I will have to do. Next I am saving up for a decent knife, then a couple of cast iron pans... then .....

[element]

So.... will this (http://www.buydefenderblades.com/product/2978-5001/250A1TC_Camouflage_Crossbow_Brand_New_Hunting_Cros sbow.html) cheap crossbow suffice for now, to learn with, until I can afford a 'better' one.
It seems/feels pretty powerful to my untrained senses. I guess I need to get out and try to get a few rabbitts and the like to find out for sure (I know hunting with a crossbow is illegal. I won't tell if you don't ;) ).
And .... thank you for the information as well the itinerant shrubber. I am on a severely limited budget and this is the one I have for now, so I will have to do. Next I am saving up for a decent knife, then a couple of cast iron pans... then .....

Or just practice non-violence. Or stick to ignorance.

Your choice.

[the itinerant shrubber]

So.... will this (http://www.buydefenderblades.com/product/2978-5001/250A1TC_Camouflage_Crossbow_Brand_New_Hunting_Cros sbow.html) cheap crossbow suffice for now, to learn with, until I can afford a 'better' one.
It seems/feels pretty powerful to my untrained senses. I guess I need to get out and try to get a few rabbitts and the like to find out for sure (I know hunting with a crossbow is illegal. I won't tell if you don't ;) ).
And .... thank you for the information as well the itinerant shrubber. I am on a severely limited budget and this is the one I have for now, so I will have to do. Next I am saving up for a decent knife, then a couple of cast iron pans... then .....

It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acatalog/Knives_and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.

[none]

Or just practice non-violence. Or stick to ignorance.

Your choice.
That's right, it's my choice.

[none]

It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acatalog/Knives_and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.

Nice one man ... thank you very much for the knife link, I can afford that :) that's brilliant. The crossbow + a pack of 6 hunting bolts came to just over £130 from the states ..... I have the bow and bolts already .... I shot one bolt into some bushes, what seemed like miles away and it went straight through them and dissapeared about twice the distance away, I never did find it.

[element]

It looks alright to me.As I've said,I've had pheasents with a pistol xbow and I could of got rabbits too so that one will easily do the job. You can catch rabbits with a bola if you're skilled enough. It's all about skill in hunting rather than the what you use.
How much is that in pounds or are you getting it from the states?

I can help you with a decent knife. I've bought loads of knives in my time and I've yet to find a knife to better this one at ten times the price.http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/acatalog/Knives_and_Saws.html (bottom of the page) Get the carbon steel one.

It may look alright now for you, but I can only grasp at the consequences you will face later on. We attract what we are, and if you are killing stuff consciously without any reason to do so, or protect yourself, you're in for a bad ride.

[none]

I have killed nothing yet, I am mearley trying to prepare for what I think is comming and that includes being able to provide (amongst other things) food for my family.

[element]

I have killed nothing yet, I am mearley trying to prepare for what I think is comming and that includes being able to provide (amongst other things) food for my family.

I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)

[none]

I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)
No it wasn't aimed at me, but I chose to reply to it anyway.
What I will kill, I will eat. What I kill will be a wild animal, not a farmed animal that has lived (in a great many instances) a miserable life.
I eat meat.
I am not a bad person.
I eat meat.
I am prepared to kill and prepare this meat myself.
I am not a bad person.
I will not take the easy option of eating shrink wrapped meat that it is difficult to link to a living breathing animal and has led at best an un-natural life and at worst has been factory farmed in a living hell, then slaughtered and dipped in sodium metabisulphite or phosphate to preserve it.

[stickwhistler]

..... I have the bow and bolts already .... I shot one bolt into some bushes, what seemed like miles away and it went straight through them and dissapeared about twice the distance away, I never did find it.

Targets Butts.

http://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/superbasket/category.php?category=59

I'm not recommending Quicks, just showing target butts.

I use a Superbutt type on a stand.
The superbutts can be left outside - the 'straw' ones cannot,
they will rot, and mice love to live in them.

Also the superbutts are easy to repair.
You dismantle, move the damaged layers to the top & bottom
of the butt, leaving good solid layers in the middle. re-assemble.

My crossbow puts a 17" bolt through a 14" butt, at 20 metres,
so that several inches stick out of the back.
The bolt has to be pushed back through the butt
so that the vane end can be grasped and pulled out.

If you hit somebody with a crossbow bolt,
it will probably go right through them!
So please, please, please use a target and butt
and make sure that there is a backstop
i.e. wall, or solid object behind the target,
or a lot of secured open space i.e. 150 metres
of private - nobody else can get in - space.
Safety curtains don't stop all arrows or bolts.
I use two curtains behind my targets, and still
get my shed - 1" thick solid planking - not feather edge
timber shed, hit occasionally.
From 30 metres, my crossbow will go through both
safety curtains and just stick through the 1" planking
2 metres behind the curtains.
The 70 lb bow penetrates the planks by about 2"
with wooden 125 grain field tipped arrows.
Misfires happen to everybody now and then!

Please think safety.
It is cheaper to damage your arrows/bolts
which can be repaired or replaced, than
to get involved with a coroners court!

[the itinerant shrubber]

I know, that wasn't toward you was it? I do not really understand this 'preparation'. What do you think will happen, will you be safe?

If shit is coming at us and we die, who gives a damn? It's part of this universe, disasters are bound to happen. I think a garden with some veggies/fruits/nuts is more useful and contains more stuff you need, and get a goat for the milk? Easier then a cow. Oh of course...!..... in a war this will be stolen, but hey your bow or gun won't be safe either. I can already see shit happening, people will only be brainwashed and use weapons themself in bad situations.

I can understand people hunt in the most bitter moments of time, but to practice kill animals is very lame, and people won't be getting away with it. lol, first sending peaceful energy to them, lure them to you and then kill? Abusing of energy, that's what it is. Some may love the native way, hopefully those will incarnate as african zulus or something. (not an insult)

(this is generally speaken None!)

Guess what-we're all made of meat. We're a walking meal for something. One day you will die,something will kill you,probably on a microbial level and then you will be eaten.
In order for something to live,something has to die,even if it's a carrot. When I dispatch an animal,I do so in a manner that I hope I will die-quickly and relatively painlessly. I can only hope that whatever kills me is as merciful.


none - How easy was it to order from the states? There's loads of hunting and outdoor gear that I'd love from the states but I'm not sure about tax and what-not. That xbow would be about 250-300 quid over here so you managed to get a decent bow for a bargain. I thought you'd payed 150 for it over here. I want some of that action!

[element]

Guess what-we're all made of meat. We're a walking meal for something. One day you will die,something will kill you,probably on a microbial level and then you will be eaten.
In order for something to live,something has to die,even if it's a carrot. When I dispatch an animal,I do so in a manner that I hope I will die-quickly and relatively painlessly. I can only hope that whatever kills me is as merciful.


I don't care if I will die really. You seem to have a very darwinian approach, while there is no need for it. Do you live alone in the desert or what? Comparing plants to animals is useless, as there is a vast difference in awareness. We are meant for plant food, otherwise you would have claws or short intestines. Don't kill that which is unnessesary to kill. There is no reason to kill, stop dreaming away with old fashioned stories.

[none]

none - How easy was it to order from the states? There's loads of hunting and outdoor gear that I'd love from the states but I'm not sure about tax and what-not. That xbow would be about 250-300 quid over here so you managed to get a decent bow for a bargain. I thought you'd payed 150 for it over here. I want some of that action!
The wife got it for me (from the kids) for fathers day this year .... she bought it from the site I linked to in my post above and it took about 9 days to arrive. customs and excise didn't slap any charges on it. I have had a lot of stuff from the states (mainly CDs and band t-shirts and customs slap a charge on about 75% of it, but the crossbow came through no problem, so it cost about £130.

[tom bombadil]

Do forgive me if it has already been mentioned.

Having a gun in the UK is not hard to achive.

You could still join a club and quite easily own a monster of a killing machine:D.

If you had a problem with pests on your farm/small holding or field or woods that you own now, then you can take the thing home.

Therefore, if you wished you could have a gun at home in time for the tits-up scenario. I am not poo-pooing those that want to have a cross-bow, but I would prefer a gun if I had a choice.

A means to make your own rounds is easily attainable and as long as you have enough spare shot and stuff at home, then why not go for the gun?


Tom.

[none]

Do forgive me if it has already been mentioned.

Having a gun in the UK is not hard to achive.

You could still join a club and quite easily own a monster of a killing machine:D.

If you had a problem with pests on your farm/small holding or field or woods that you own now, then you can take the thing home.

Therefore, if you wished you could have a gun at home in time for the tits-up scenario. I am not poo-pooing those that want to have a cross-bow, but I would prefer a gun if I had a choice.

A means to make your own rounds is easily attainable and as long as you have enough spare shot and stuff at home, then why not go for the gun?


Tom.
It is if you have a criminal record for violence. ;)

If you have a licenced gun and the TPTB decide that it's time to tighten the screw, they will just take that gun away from you.

[the itinerant shrubber]

I don't care if I will die really. You seem to have a very darwinian approach, while there is no need for it. Do you live alone in the desert or what? Comparing plants to animals is useless, as there is a vast difference in awareness. We are meant for plant food, otherwise you would have claws or short intestines. Don't kill that which is unnessesary to kill. There is no reason to kill, stop dreaming away with old fashioned stories.

It doesnt matter if you do care about dieing.

Please explain what you would of personally worn for clothing after the last ice-age and where you would of got the essential fats from and why you as a westener are wiser than than our ancestors and all the other cultures on the planet who have eaten meat for the last 2.5 million years?
What are our canines for?-those same canines that other meat eating simians have?
We are omnivores.Our dental structure proves this. If we were herbivores we would have herbivorous teeth and the digestive tract to go with it.

How do you know how aware a vegetable is? Are you god?

It's thought by some that plants can also feel pain and anticipate damage http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060906213525AAZt1Kv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdish_Chandra_Bose#Plant_research

What will you be eating now? Carrots that have lived a full and wholesome carroty life and have died a natural death? Or are your principles actually based one whether something is cute and furry becouse you are turning away from an aspect of life that doesnt fit in with your cozy view of how you think the world should be?

If you dont agree with meat eating (and I hope you're not wearing leather and drinking milk or wine) why are you in a discusion about hunting? We're not going to change our mind,especially if you cant come up with any rationale as to why we shouldnt eat meat.
When theres no more Sainsburys or health food shops,I'll be thinking of you as you tuck into your turnip and potato soup. How much of your body weight will you lose during a cold british winter before you start salivating at the smell of spit-roast pork I wonder.

If you dont agree with meat eating,you should make a thread about it using coherent arguments against it instead of spamming a hunting discussion with facile and ill-informed emotive comments.

[element]

It doesnt matter if you do care about dieing.

Please explain what you would of personally worn for clothing after the last ice-age and where you would of got the essential fats from and why you as a westener are wiser than than our ancestors and all the other cultures on the planet who have eaten meat for the last 2.5 million years?

FFS, I always said if we had no other chance, then yes we can kill. But in these times there is no more need for it. Are you blind? Don't kill if it's unnessesary.

What are our canines for?-those same canines that other meat eating simians have?
We are omnivores.Our dental structure proves this. If we were herbivores we would have herbivorous teeth and the digestive tract to go with it.

Long intestines, no claws. We can't eat it raw, it needs to be cleaned and cooked, and still it's much bacteria. Simians, lol. Here's another brainwashed evolutionist it seems?

How do you know how aware a vegetable is? Are you god?

That's not my point. I'm saying animals have higher awareness. This can be easily seen, they are further developed. Do they want you to kill them? Look in their eyes, and say it again. That said, taking fruits do not kill trees, and vegetables are our foods, you want to let them rot away in vain?

f you dont agree with meat eating (and I hope you're not wearing leather and drinking milk or wine) why are you in a discusion about hunting? We're not going to change our mind,especially if you cant come up with any rationale as to why we shouldnt eat meat.
When theres no more Sainsburys or health food shops,I'll be thinking of you as you tuck into your turnip and potato soup. How much of your body weight will you lose during a cold british winter before you start salivating at the smell of spit-roast pork I wonder.

If you dont agree with meat eating,you should make a thread about it using coherent arguments against it instead of spamming a hunting discussion with facile and ill-informed emotive comments.

I can post anywhere I like. I started here to point out it's lame to hunt animals for practice. It's fine if we are in the biggest trouble. You fail to see that, I said it before. These times it's not needed anymore. Got a brain error? If I have to repeat myself because you can't read, then maybe you bloodsucker should be ignored.

[the itinerant shrubber]

FFS, I always said if we had no other chance, then yes we can kill. But in these times there is no more need for it. Are you blind? Don't kill if it's unnessesary.

It's neccesary to practice for when the time comes to hunt our own food.It's also better to hunt your own food than rely on farm animals that havnt had a life.


Long intestines, no claws. We can't eat it raw, it needs to be cleaned and cooked, and still it's much bacteria. Simians, lol. Here's another brainwashed evolutionist it seems?

No claws and no teeth to cope with a purely vegetarian diet. Look at a deers teeth and then compare it with ours. Now compare a bears teeth with ours. Notice the similarities? We have a omnivorous anatomy.
We can eat raw meat.It's only recently that farmed meat has become so polluted that it's now necessary to cook it.
What does "simians LOL" mean? What was the point you were making there?

First you say we can eat meat if necessary but then say we're not designed for it. If we werent designed for it,we couldnt eat it . Try eating a load of grass and see how you get on. It'll make you sick becouse you're not meant to eat it. Eat meat and you'll be fine,THEREFORE we are designed to eat it. -QED

We dont have claws but we do have opposable thumbs and a highly developed brain of which a diet of meat is responsible for.


That's not my point. I'm saying animals have higher awareness. This can be easily seen, they are further developed.

How can it be seen? By your personal perception of it?

Do they want you to kill them? Look in their eyes, and say it again.

No they dont want us to kill them becouse they have a survival instinct thats in place to ensure the continuation of the species. I dont want to be eaten either but I will one day and so will you.How convinient for you that carrots dont have eyes for you to gaze into.

That said, taking fruits do not kill trees, and vegetables are our foods, you want to let them rot away in vain?

By rotting away it means microbes will break it down and turn it into food for other organisms.Nothing is wasted. What about the links I posted? You're still killing something that may or may not have a conscience of sorts. Who are you to decide what is OK to kill and what isnt?


I can post anywhere I like. I started here to point out it's lame to hunt animals for practice. It's fine if we are in the biggest trouble. You fail to see that, I said it before. These times it's not needed anymore. Got a brain error? If I have to repeat myself because you can't read, then maybe you bloodsucker should be ignored.

This thread is in the SURVIVAL section so we are discusing survival via hunting and the practice thereof. Making fire with a flint and steel isnt needed in these times either but one day those skills may be needed again so thats also discussed on this board. This is what the survival forum is for-preparation and practice for future survival;for when we are in "the biggest trouble". Do you see?
Please dont repeat yourself. Your personal oppinions on what should and shouldnt be killed is irrelevant to this topic and the fact that you have to resort to personal insults regarding my brain capacity,my literacy skills and calling me a "bloodsucker" illustrates exactly how much thought and reason you've put into your opinions.

[element]

No claws and no teeth to cope with a purely vegetarian diet. Look at a deers teeth and then compare it with ours. Now compare a bears teeth with ours. Notice the similarities? We have a omnivorous anatomy.
We can eat raw meat.It's only recently that farmed meat has become so polluted that it's now necessary to cook it.
What does "simians LOL" mean? What was the point you were making there?

http://k43.pbase.com/g6/08/700508/2/68685622.IjM0zShD.jpg
http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_4_2003_14_29_14/teeth.jpg4DF99358-578A-46FA-A131BC8D1613D574.jpgLarge.jpg

You eat raw meat? Good luck with it.

First you say we can eat meat if necessary but then say we're not designed for it. If we werent designed for it,we couldnt eat it . Try eating a load of grass and see how you get on. It'll make you sick becouse you're not meant to eat it. Eat meat and you'll be fine,THEREFORE we are designed to eat it. -QED

I say we can eat meat when there is no other food available. When there is however, there is no reason to kill animals for food. Why don't you understand? I have to repeat myself over and over again it seems. So I can't eat grass, so I should eat meat??? More crap. Much logic you have.

We dont have claws but we do have opposable thumbs and a highly developed brain of which a diet of meat is responsible for.

Hahah nice bullshitting here.

How can it be seen? By your personal perception of it?

Why do you think there are so many varieties in species? Matter, plant, animal. Next thing you're saying a bacteria is the same as you in awareness!

No they dont want us to kill them becouse they have a survival instinct thats in place to ensure the continuation of the species. I dont want to be eaten either but I will one day and so will you.How convinient for you that carrots dont have eyes for you to gaze into.

Good for you. Keep being obsessed with survival while forgetting your humility. Killing when it's not nessesary, what a hero you are.


This thread is in the SURVIVAL section so we are discusing survival via hunting and the practice thereof. Making fire with a flint and steel isnt needed in these times either but one day those skills may be needed again so thats also discussed on this board. This is what the survival forum is for-preparation and practice for future survival;for when we are in "the biggest trouble". Do you see?
Please dont repeat yourself. Your personal oppinions on what should and shouldnt be killed is irrelevant to this topic and the fact that you have to resort to personal insults regarding my brain capacity,my literacy skills and calling me a "bloodsucker" illustrates exactly how much thought and reason you've put into your opinions.

Making a fire or killing an animal without reason. I suppose it's the same for you. I understand ''when you are in the biggest trouble''. But practice on something else, rather then kill now if it's not needed. I have to repeat myself, because your to stupid to read. If you feel insulted then that is so because your own inability to read. And yes, you are literally a bloodsucker. That's not insulting, but truth.

[the itinerant shrubber]

http://k43.pbase.com/g6/08/700508/2/68685622.IjM0zShD.jpg
http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_4_2003_14_29_14/teeth.jpg4DF99358-578A-46FA-A131BC8D1613D574.jpgLarge.jpg

[quote]You eat raw meat? Good luck with it.

Err...no...

I say we can eat meat when there is no other food available. When there is however, there is no reason to kill animals for food. Why don't you understand? I have to repeat myself over and over again it seems. So I can't eat grass, so I should eat meat??? More crap. Much logic you have.

Becouse as I have already explained,we need to practice so that we are able to hunt when it IS necessary for survival. Hence this discussion in the survival thread.
There is no reason to kill carrots for food either but plants like animals are part of the food chain so I am merely being part of that chain instead of imagining myself to be somehow morally superior to it like you do.




Hahah nice bullshitting here.

Right... I guess you know more than all those anthropologists too.


Why do you think there are so many varieties in species?
Evolution?

Matter, plant, animal. Next thing you're saying a bacteria is the same as you in awareness!

I wouldnt know,I'm not a bacteria and who else besides you decided that the level of conciseness was a yardstick to decide what is eaten and what isnt?



Good for you. Keep being obsessed with survival while forgetting your humility. Killing when it's not nessesary, what a hero you are.

And when you're starving and finally have to face up to killing an animal,how will you kill that bird for instance? Quickly and cleanly, or will your inexperience, due to your perverted sense of morality, cause it prolonged suffering?
According to you it's OK to cause suffering to animals when you really have to rather than to hunt and kill animals efficiently that would be hunted and killed by another creature eventually anyway and thereby taking your place in the natural order. Nice...

Making a fire or killing an animal without reason. I suppose it's the same for you. I understand ''when you are in the biggest trouble''. But practice on something else, rather then kill now if it's not needed. I have to repeat myself, because your to stupid to read. If you feel insulted then that is so because your own inability to read. And yes, you are literally a bloodsucker. That's not insulting, but truth.


You're saying I literally suck the blood of animals? LOL You're not exactly a great advert for vegetarianism are you if thats the nearest that you can come to rational debate.

[none]

On the next big contract I do, I am going to save for a Barnett and an Excalibur. I need to try different bolts too. Then, I may try joining the local archery club and getting a Bow.

[the itinerant shrubber]

On the next big contract I do, I am going to save for a Barnett and an Excalibur. I need to try different bolts too. Then, I may try joining the local archery club and getting a Bow.

The one I was looking at was a Rhino Quad. One reviewer said he fired it at a a pile of compacted carpets,rubber tyres and wooden boards and it still managed to go through and embed itself in the concrete garage behind. He had to sell it cos it was too impractical. Just the ticket for hunting though if you can afford to get a target butt to go with it to practice on.

[psych641]

When TSHTF species can be threatened with extinction. (eg. bonobos in africa)

The UK has a massive population density in comparison to africa. A population dependent on intensive, sustainable farming (and import)for its choice of omniverous diet. If THSTF in the worse sense, the farmed livestock could quickly be looted, that only leaves the wild animals and i wonder how long they would survive the sights of every spare gun in the country. Birds would fare better perhaps, and would still follow migratory flightpaths.

Traditional hunting methods practice great respect to the ecosystem & is careful to avoid over-hunting. This probably only works with balanced ecosystem/population densities.

A sustainable approach for the darwinists: leave the animals alone for the time being, & eat people until the population levels out to a sustainable level.

[the itinerant shrubber]

When TSHTF species can be threatened with extinction. (eg. bonobos in africa)

The UK has a massive population density in comparison to africa. A population dependent on intensive, sustainable farming (and import)for its choice of omniverous diet. If THSTF in the worse sense, the farmed livestock could quickly be looted, that only leaves the wild animals and i wonder how long they would survive the sights of every spare gun in the country. Birds would fare better perhaps, and would still follow migratory flightpaths.

Traditional hunting methods practice great respect to the ecosystem & is careful to avoid over-hunting. This probably only works with balanced ecosystem/population densities.

A sustainable approach for the darwinists: leave the animals alone for the time being, & eat people until the population levels out to a sustainable level.

I'm depending on alot of people dieing off in that time. The countryside people will be OK but the city and town people will suffer greatly. Even if your average city dweller does pluck up the courage to hunt,he wont be skilled enough to catch anything wild and if he does,he wont know how to butcher and preserve. Alot of people will go down from intestinal bugs and even worms.

[kanz]

The only real draw back to Crossbows are they only fire once. Other than that there great. 25lb drawback weight , you know the little pistol ones are deadly , so I don't think Ill need to tell you what a 125lb drawback ones can do. Cant really recommend any specific one as my time with x-bows is very limited. Depends on how much you wana spend but anything over £150 should bet you a nice solid one .

[diamondgeezer]

I'm depending on alot of people dieing off in that time. The countryside people will be OK but the city and town people will suffer greatly. Even if your average city dweller does pluck up the courage to hunt,he wont be skilled enough to catch anything wild and if he does,he wont know how to butcher and preserve. Alot of people will go down from intestinal bugs and even worms.

:rolleyes:Not all of us pal..

City dwellers are just as adept as country bumpkin types when it comes down to surviving rank times anyway, possibly more so.
Like back in WW2 eh, far nicer out there in rural Suffolk than here in Manchester when those bombs were falling every night no doubt eh...

Anyway, all anyone need do as insurance against this worst possible scenario blag is get shitloads of tinned/dried food, bottled water etc, and stash it somewhere reasonably cool & dry. Under the floorboards is ideal. Doesn't matter where the fuck you live.

[the itinerant shrubber]

:rolleyes:Not all of us pal..

City dwellers are just as adept as country bumpkin types when it comes down to surviving rank times anyway, possibly more so.
Like back in WW2 eh, far nicer out there in rural Suffolk than here in Manchester when those bombs were falling every night no doubt eh...

Anyway, all anyone need do as insurance against this worst possible scenario blag is get shitloads of tinned/dried food, bottled water etc, and stash it somewhere reasonably cool & dry. Under the floorboards is ideal. Doesn't matter where the fuck you live.

I'm talking long term survival or rather living, as the word survival has connotations of barely hanging on until you're rescued again which is what the military teach you as opposed to learning bush craft and self sefficiency which teaches you to live comfortably off the grid which was what we were doing a mere hundred years ago.
I'd sooner plant those beans than put them in a tin and bury them.

[diamondgeezer]

Shrubber, in the event of a complete breakdown in our society there would be chaos for quite a long time, perhaps many years, but believe me all those city dwellers are not going to just curl up & die, leaving you to settle down to a nice pastoral existence on your smallholding or whatever.
No, there would be mob rule, warfare over 'valuable territory' (ie places where there are lots of shops), execution for 'looters', harsh punishment for 'hoarders' etc etc. And not just confined to the cities either, gangs would be raiding any easy pickings out in the sticks as well, and that means you.

Many of the weakest in the conurbations would eventually die off perhaps, but that would leave the hardest, the most ruthless, the type of people who already rule in our cities (although the authorities don't like to admit it). And you think they're going to leave you alone..?

:rolleyes:And those tinned beans have some major advantages over your planted ones: they don't die from pests & diseases, they can easily be moved from A to B, and they last a bloody long time...

[the itinerant shrubber]

Shrubber, in the event of a complete breakdown in our society there would be chaos for quite a long time, perhaps many years, but believe me all those city dwellers are not going to just curl up & die, leaving you to settle down to a nice pastoral existence on your smallholding or whatever.
No, there would be mob rule, warfare over 'valuable territory' (ie places where there are lots of shops), execution for 'looters', harsh punishment for 'hoarders' etc etc. And not just confined to the cities either, gangs would be raiding any easy pickings out in the sticks as well, and that means you.

Many of the weakest in the conurbations would eventually die off perhaps, but that would leave the hardest, the most ruthless, the type of people who already rule in our cities (although the authorities don't like to admit it). And you think they're going to leave you alone..?

:rolleyes:And those tinned beans have some major advantages over your planted ones: they don't die from pests & diseases, they can easily be moved from A to B, and they last a bloody long time...

I agree.Thats why I'd pack my bag and keep on the move. Stay away from population centres and stay away from any sign of authority. The government will encourage people to gather in camps,which most people will do and those that dont will be shot on the spot.
As long as they have the bulk of people under control,they're not going to bother with the likes of me. One person is no threat to them.
When I was talking about planting the beans,I was talking about the long term future,many decades after the breakdown of civilization,although personally I'd be quite happy to spend the rest of my life living nomadicaly.

[resistance]

Cross bows are quiet and efficient but are cumbersome and slow when loading. They don't compare to a top class p.c.p air rifle taken upto supersonic levels;) some have got at least 10-14 shot mags for rapid fire applications and when fully tuned to around 40ft lbs they pack enough power to take bricks apart or go straight through 2 inch plywood upto 40 meters.

I will start a thread on air rifles and will add a list of known rifles that can be powered up to sub/supersonic velocity's. Bear in mind though all people in countries such as the u.k it is an offence to take any air rifle above 12 ft lbs, with out an f.a.c.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Cross bows are quiet and efficient but are cumbersome and slow when loading. They don't compare to a top class p.c.p air rifle taken upto supersonic levels;) some have got at least 10-14 shot mags for rapid fire applications and when fully tuned to around 40ft lbs they pack enough power to take bricks apart or go straight through 2 inch plywood upto 40 meters.

I will start a thread on air rifles and will add a list of known rifles that can be powered up to sub/supersonic velocity's. Bear in mind though all people in countries such as the u.k it is an offence to take any air rifle above 12 ft lbs, with out an f.a.c.

Excellent. I'd love to know how you pimp an air rifle up. WOuld it damage it in anyway and shorten it's life?
Thread please.

[homebrew1973]

The crossbow I have is self-cocking, only takes a couple of seconds to cock and load and release the catch ;) But as it`s draw weight`s 80lb it took two of us to get the string on...

http://www.merlinarcherycentre.co.uk/acatalog/Tomcat_Pistol_Crossbow.html is the one, will have to get spare strings and bolts for it soon methinks and go shooting in the hills now kids are back at school :)

[stickwhistler]

I will start a thread on air rifles and will add a list of known rifles that can be powered up to sub/supersonic velocity's. Bear in mind though all people in countries such as the u.k it is an offence to take any air rifle above 12 ft lbs, with out an f.a.c.


In that case, IMHO, you should tell people how to do it,
so that they can avoid such taking such actions accidentally or inadvertently.
e.g.
Cannabis is a greedy plant so don't get putting
John Innes Number 2 potting compost anywhere near it.
Also you want to keep the watering can well away from it as it
needs a lot of water to thrive.

:D

[resistance]

Excellent. I'd love to know how you pimp an air rifle up. WOuld it damage it in anyway and shorten it's life?
Thread please.

No, it won't damage it, in some cases though a few simple parts or modifications are neccesary.

you have a PM.:)

[none]

In that case, IMHO, you should tell people how to do it,
so that they can avoid such taking such actions accidentally or inadvertently.
e.g.
Cannabis is a greedy plant so don't get putting
John Innes Number 2 potting compost anywhere near it.
Also you want to keep the watering can well away from it as it
needs a lot of water to thrive.

:D
:eek: anything else I should avoid to stop this pesky weed? ;)

[homebrew1973]

My second crossbow of the same kind arrived today (with many spare bolts) at 8am of all times :eek: and half an hour later I get the post! Do Royal Mail have two different tiers of postmen? :confused:

[ubiquitous]

hi all, been following this thread with some interest. im the husband of "ubiquitous" (hence using her sign in, ill get round to joining soon enough!) had a great deal of experience in crossbows, longbows and all kind of archery related stuff, and a whole lot of time hunting with them. if i can offer a few tips to help anyone out im glad to help.
first thing is the field/target points you get on crossbow bolts, whether full size or pistol crossbows, are next to useless for hunting anything bigger than a mouse. an arrow(or bolt) is designed to kill by haemorrage or shock or a combination of the two. all a field point will do is make a hole the same size as the shaft of the bolt and then plug it up. grind the end of the point totally flat to make a blunt. better still, if they are screw in points, put a small washer between the point and the shaft. this will knock the living daylights out of small game(rabbits, squirrels pheasants etc) and give you a clean kill.
the best weapon by far is a longbow( in all its forms) in my humble opinion. although it takes more skill and time to get good enough, with a selection of arrows, you can basically take any animal on the planet( as man has been doing for the last 10000 years with it, its mankinds second invention after the wheel!), from elephants to squirrels, as long as youve got the right arrow for the job. you can even shoot fish with them.
making your own bow and arrows is something i've found so fascinating ive actually made a living out of it for the past year,(made over 200 bows since feb this year!) so if any one wants any info on how to's or what to do's feel free to pm my missus and ill do what i can to help
warmest regards
chris

[none]

Thanks Chris. With your knowledge of bows, you have a lot to offer us all in valuable advice. I look forward to reading it.

[the itinerant shrubber]

hi all, been following this thread with some interest. im the husband of "ubiquitous" (hence using her sign in, ill get round to joining soon enough!) had a great deal of experience in crossbows, longbows and all kind of archery related stuff, and a whole lot of time hunting with them. if i can offer a few tips to help anyone out im glad to help.
first thing is the field/target points you get on crossbow bolts, whether full size or pistol crossbows, are next to useless for hunting anything bigger than a mouse. an arrow(or bolt) is designed to kill by haemorrage or shock or a combination of the two. all a field point will do is make a hole the same size as the shaft of the bolt and then plug it up. grind the end of the point totally flat to make a blunt. better still, if they are screw in points, put a small washer between the point and the shaft. this will knock the living daylights out of small game(rabbits, squirrels pheasants etc) and give you a clean kill.
the best weapon by far is a longbow( in all its forms) in my humble opinion. although it takes more skill and time to get good enough, with a selection of arrows, you can basically take any animal on the planet( as man has been doing for the last 10000 years with it, its mankinds second invention after the wheel!), from elephants to squirrels, as long as youve got the right arrow for the job. you can even shoot fish with them.
making your own bow and arrows is something i've found so fascinating ive actually made a living out of it for the past year,(made over 200 bows since feb this year!) so if any one wants any info on how to's or what to do's feel free to pm my missus and ill do what i can to help
warmest regards
chris

Are you from north america? I want to order hunting arrow from the states but as we dont have them over here,I'm at a loss as to what to get regarding spines for an 80lb recurve. There seems to be a million types of broadheads too.
Would you be able to recommend something suitable if I gave you my draw length etc.?
I'd like to pick your brains later if I can.

[tracker]

As guns are not legal here in the UK, I am thinking about buying a crossbow for self defense and hunting if I needed to in the future. Can anyone reccomend a good crossbow and how effective are they compared to a gun?

some cross bows are 180bls pes square inch.

even an air rifle with an ox spring or air pump action couldnt match that .

fire one of those bolts in the sky , and it doesnt come back , you'll see it disapear before it even got to its full hight .

good for "self defence" against wild boar or wild dogs .

( think carefully now )

:cool:

[ubiquitous]

hi im not from N America, im from Derbyshire mate. as for the arrow question, i shoot a 70 lb high performance recurve with fast flight string and i shoot 55/60lb spine and they fly like darts, probably will be the same for you.
as for broadheads, you can use any glue on taper fit 2 or 3 blade you like as long as it flies straight( you need helical fletching to counteract the tendency of the broad head to "windplane")as long as its sharp, and i mean razor sharp. for small game in this country up to fox size, the good old steel blunt, made from a .38 pistol cartridge fits perfect over an 11/32 shaft, or trade type home made broadheads.
also the zwickey judo head is a real belter of an arrow head, a bit pricey but pretty much unloseable. if youve never seen one, its slightly blunt with 4 spring arms at right angles to the head. when you shoot it in grass, the claws catch the ground and flip the arrow up.
ive made about every type of arrow head imaginable over the years,and the simpler the better( and cheaper!)
if youre after some good, simple( or fancy) hunting arrows, broadheads or small gamers, pm me mate and well see if we can sort something out.
all the best
chris

[eisenhower]

Cross bows are quiet and efficient but are cumbersome and slow when loading. They don't compare to a top class p.c.p air rifle taken upto supersonic levels;) some have got at least 10-14 shot mags for rapid fire applications and when fully tuned to around 40ft lbs they pack enough power to take bricks apart or go straight through 2 inch plywood upto 40 meters.

I will start a thread on air rifles and will add a list of known rifles that can be powered up to sub/supersonic velocity's. Bear in mind though all people in countries such as the u.k it is an offence to take any air rifle above 12 ft lbs, with out an f.a.c.



Hi Resistance,
I was wondering if you started the thread about the air rifles already.
I can't find it anywhere, but i'll be great to know a bit more about the subject(how to, which are the best/easier rifles to mod, etc).
Cheers
'Ike'

[none]

it is on page 2 of this section ..... you never looked far :rolleyes:
just kidding Ike ;)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34753

[eisenhower]

Hi None!
Thanks! (man. i'm blind!:)

[armoured_amazon]

I think I'm just going to get a traditional bow. :)

*does a search for archery lessons*

[ubiquitous]

howdy doody, ive now got my own log in on this site as ivortheboneless after using my mrs' login(ubiquitous). how would you feel about me doing some threads about everything to do with archery, ie hunting, bowmaking, arrow making everything that ive learnt myself over the past (many!) years. from what ive read , theres a whole lot of misinformation about this most ancient and noble art, along with alot of misunderstandings about air rifles as well( another 20 odd years experience of!).
warmest regards
chris

[loderlive]

how would you feel about me doing some threads about everything to do with archery

You are an Archer?

[armoured_amazon]

howdy doody, ive now got my own log in on this site as ivortheboneless after using my mrs' login(ubiquitous). how would you feel about me doing some threads about everything to do with archery, ie hunting, bowmaking, arrow making everything that ive learnt myself over the past (many!) years. from what ive read , theres a whole lot of misinformation about this most ancient and noble art, along with alot of misunderstandings about air rifles as well( another 20 odd years experience of!).
warmest regards
chris

Yes please :)

[homebrew1973]

I thought about getting a bow too but good ones are way out of my budget so I suppose I`d better learn how to make one, must visit the Royal Armouries museum again soon to look at their extensive collection of bows and crossbows :)

That`s a thought, have any of you made crossbow bolts at all?

[rydeon]

Shrubber, in the event of a complete breakdown in our society there would be chaos for quite a long time, perhaps many years, but believe me all those city dwellers are not going to just curl up & die, leaving you to settle down to a nice pastoral existence on your smallholding or whatever.
No, there would be mob rule, warfare over 'valuable territory' (ie places where there are lots of shops), execution for 'looters', harsh punishment for 'hoarders' etc etc. And not just confined to the cities either, gangs would be raiding any easy pickings out in the sticks as well, and that means you.

Many of the weakest in the conurbations would eventually die off perhaps, but that would leave the hardest, the most ruthless, the type of people who already rule in our cities (although the authorities don't like to admit it). And you think they're going to leave you alone..?

:rolleyes:And those tinned beans have some major advantages over your planted ones: they don't die from pests & diseases, they can easily be moved from A to B, and they last a bloody long time...

You're partly right I think.

Don't forget a lot of us survivalists already have 'base farms' where we have links, allies etc and enough crossbows and shotguns to more than safeguard the farm and livestock in case of attack ;)

But onto crossbows.

I just bought two from crossbow4u and its a very fearsome beast.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/Ulysses3100/P1010515.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/Ulysses3100/P1010552.jpg

The 180lb Bow did this to concrete at 20 yards having already gone through glass.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/Ulysses3100/DSC00163.jpg

Also punch through 1" board with ease at 20 yards.
A manstopper.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/Ulysses3100/P1010557.jpg

Got a custom fabricated and fitted laser targeting system and a red-dot sight.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/Ulysses3100/184126.jpg

Very good weapon. Get plenty of spare strings and arrows/bolts.

Just need a sling and a quiver.

[rydeon]

Depends if you practice or not.
Don't practice and the answer is yes.

The advantage with a crossbow is that it is easier for a
relatively untrained person to be accurate enough to .....

I shoot 40lb take-down re curve for club target practice,
with all the rods, weights and balances etc and have actually
won competitions, and came 6th to a national champion,
only 60 points in between us, so I'm a bit good :D
I also have my own target range of 50 metres to play in.

I also shoot a 70lb Grozer recurve one piece bare bow.

If gnats had nuts, I could shoot the left or right one at 18 metres,
with the target bow.
The Grozer = not so accurate, but lots of fun, and quicker to get to use,
grouping within say 5 cm at 18 metres.

Both the above take practice everyday.
At least 3 dozen arrows every day!
Even a couple of days away = larger grouping
e.g. from a tea plate to a dinner plate at 50 metres.

I also have a crossbow - 150lb.
I'm not too fussed over the accuracy because it's fun,
and other people can get on target with it fairly quickly
i.e. 10 minutes practice, and they can shoot it well enough.

A bow takes a lot longer to get as good.

Also if you're going hunting,
when you draw the bow, I'll bet your prey goes away.
The crossbow can be cocked for hours, and shot without
any movement from you - except your finger :)

So - horses for courses!
The crossbow won't take anywhere near the practice a bow will.
So if you haven't got time to shoot a bow every day,
a crossbow can be left for weeks, and you'll still either
hit or get a near miss, which may be good enough
e.g. a shot to the shoulder may hit the head or abdomen.
If you stay within say 50 metres, the arrow/bolt travels
faster than the speed of sound, so the target won't hear the twang.


Two other points.
1) Hunting with bows is illegal in the UK.

2) Don't shoot a bird in a tree unless you like climbing
'cos it'll get pinned there - you'll lose your arrow/bolt and yer supper
If you had to shoot a bird in a tree - use a blunt to knock it out
of the tree, and collect it from the ground.

To make crossbow bolts, use an aluminium arrow.
Cut it in half. You now have 2 bolts.
One with a pointy end, the other with vanes.
Buy another pointy bit for the vane ended one
and break the nock off.
Buy a nock and vanes for the pointy ended bolt.
Fit according to need.

Or ... see evilbay.

Not a bad post, but I disagree with the poster who mentioned crossbows aren't a wise choice for SITX etc.

Compound bows I would not choose as a survival weapon, they are complex and good for a shooting competition and field maintenance is difficult.
A Recurve crossbow, however, is a lot more easy-to-maintain. Just have a spare prod and about 5 spare strings.

BUT, hunting is only illegal in England and Wales. In Scotland and the borders it is more of a gray area ;)

[none]

howdy doody, ive now got my own log in on this site as ivortheboneless after using my mrs' login(ubiquitous). how would you feel about me doing some threads about everything to do with archery, ie hunting, bowmaking, arrow making everything that ive learnt myself over the past (many!) years. from what ive read , theres a whole lot of misinformation about this most ancient and noble art, along with alot of misunderstandings about air rifles as well( another 20 odd years experience of!).
warmest regards
chris
That would be brilliant Chris. I look forward to reading and copying and printing your posts.

Not a bad post, but I disagree with the poster who mentioned crossbows aren't a wise choice for SITX etc.

Compound bows I would not choose as a survival weapon, they are complex and good for a shooting competition and field maintenance is difficult.
A Recurve crossbow, however, is a lot more easy-to-maintain. Just have a spare prod and about 5 spare strings.

BUT, hunting is only illegal in England and Wales. In Scotland and the borders it is more of a gray area ;)
Hmmm well, I'll struggle on by with the compound for now as I can't afford anything else untill well into next year .... I will get a recurve though.
I thought bow hunting was illegal in Scotland as well, that's what all the hunting and fishing types I know think as well .... I will need to look into this .... not that it being illegal is going to stop me anyway

[rydeon]

That would be brilliant Chris. I look forward to reading and copying and printing your posts.


Hmmm well, I'll struggle on by with the compound for now as I can't afford anything else untill well into next year .... I will get a recurve though.
I thought bow hunting was illegal in Scotland as well, that's what all the hunting and fishing types I know think as well .... I will need to look into this .... not that it being illegal is going to stop me anyway

Good attitude man, I like it.
The rules of the government are not the laws of man in most cases anyway!
We'll have to get a group hooked up and out hunting some time.

[none]

I'm in :D
I get paid off this week (finally, after getting 2 reprieves) and myself and my brother are going to go out and see what we can get with his air rifles, our crossbows and the Food For Free book. Hopefully it will make being on the dole more satisfying than normal.

[the itinerant shrubber]

I'm in :D
I get paid off this week (finally, after getting 2 reprieves) and myself and my brother are going to go out and see what we can get with his air rifles, our crossbows and the Food For Free book. Hopefully it will make being on the dole more satisfying than normal.

Good for you mate. You'll learn so much by just doing it,put yourself well ahead of most of the other people in the survival stakes and going out and getting your own food is the biggest kick in the balls you can give to our wannabe slave masters.
Good hunting.