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vegan_on_the_land
18-09-2011, 12:45 PM
On Oct. 16, 1948, 50,000 Jewish communists turned out in Moscow's Red Square to welcome the first Israeli delegation to Moscow. Stalin supported Zionism's 1947 Palestine partition plan, gave crucial recognition to the newly-created state of Israel and voted for Israel's admission to the United Nations.
In 1951 communist and Marxist parties had twenty-three seats in the Israeli Knesset.

But the fact that Stalin was nonetheless surrounded by Jews everywhere in positions of high power (Lazar Kaganovich, Pyatnitsky, Fillip Goloschekin “and many others who were made part of the ruling circle") [VAKSBERG, p. 20] is described by Vaksberg as “camouflage” for the Soviet leader’s hatred of Jews. [VAKSBERG, p. 27] Yet Vaksberg’s own evidence to portray the Russian Jewish community as solely victims consistently deflates the premise of Stalin’s enduring anti-Semitism.

If Stalin supported Israel it will have been because he wanted to have some influence over them. He knew NATO did. If there was a preponderance of 'Jews' in his inner circle that only means that 'Jews' were attracted to Communism because of what it promised them. The idea of 'from each according to their means, to each according to their needs', will have been very attractive to people who had been vilified, oppressed and slaughtered in pogroms in the czarist era. That is why there were lots of 'Jews' in the Communist party.

Stalin may have had lots of people with typical Jewish names in his inner circle but they weren't Jews. Communists are athiest. Those 'Jews' probably had contempt or even hatred for Jews. Someone is only a Jew if they practise the religion. It doesn't matter what Jews believe about someone being a Jew if their mother is. Someone is not a Methodist just because their mother is. Someone is not a Liberal-Democrat just because their mother is a Lib-Dem MP. Someone is not a Millwall supporter just because their father is. If someone isn't interested in football or they support Hamilton Academicals, they are not a Millwall supporter.

Nazis came from a Christian background but they persecuted and killed many Christians. It could be said that Hitler, Schickegruber, Himmler, Eichmann are typical Christian names. But those people were not Christian.

vegan_on_the_land
18-09-2011, 12:48 PM
It matters not what Commies did. It doesn't change the fact that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews and 'Jews'.

whale
18-09-2011, 03:51 PM
It matters not what Commies did. It doesn't change the fact that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews and 'Jews'.

not in death camps http://whale.to/b/holocaust_revisionism.html

and the 'commies' were mostly jews/zionists
http://whale.to/b/communism.html

"Stalin was also a Zionist. He was the son of Baron Edmond de Rothschild and the brother of Chairman Mao."

stelios
18-09-2011, 04:02 PM
I correct myself. To highlight German inefficiency even further they should have stated that "she was marched from death camp to death camp and nearly suffered an early death from it!"
Totally without any credibility.
A little like their claim that the Jew hating Nazis would bath themselves with soap made from Jew body fat.
There is no reality to any of their claims.
Pure propaganda

stelios
18-09-2011, 04:04 PM
It matters not what Commies did. It doesn't change the fact that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews and 'Jews'.
Can you prove it?
Can you produce a database or a list of the millions of names?
And what does Jews and 'Jews' mean?
Are you suggesting some were not real 'Jews'?

nanooky
18-09-2011, 09:23 PM
Can you prove it?
Can you produce a database or a list of the millions of names?
And what does Jews and 'Jews' mean?
Are you suggesting some were not real 'Jews'?
http://youtu.be/eeEfkPlnie0

nanooky
18-09-2011, 09:49 PM
Nonsense. Just pulling up you Catholic hating Jew loving bigots (who push the nonsense that Jews are innocent never done no harm to no one) PS quit calling me a bigot you bigot of immense proportions or colossus bigotry. If you can't debate with out name calling then don't type in my direction (that goes for dogsmilk and Lightgiver too)

You and lightgiver have rabid anti catholic obsessions, doing the Orange lodge's work for them.

"Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."—Dr. Isaac Wise.


Besides I posted Martin Luther quotes a few pages back guess what he wasn't Catholic. Also posted quotes from Winston Churchill. who said
The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.

end quote.

So was Churchil a Nazi as well? LOL! :D


Jews in the Vatican The Vatican is Roman Catholic; this we know, don't we? Well, how come then that even Popes are Jews? The late Pope John Paul II, for example was Jewish, having a Jewish mother. And let us not forget that the first, original Pope, Peter, was of course Jewish [however, see the second paragraph beneath the List of Jewish Popes below for clarification]. Likewise, some other early Popes were from Jewish families as well, such as St. Zosimus (417-418); his father's name was Abram. Pope Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned as being Jewish, based upon the writings of Pope Pius V. [17]
Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:
Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22]
Among the cardinals of the Catholic Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. There have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. [16]
Despite the fact there was no such office or word as "pope" until about the fourth century and that Peter was neither Roman Catholic nor pope, commencing with Peter, the first ten popes were "Jews" of some description (Philip I by William Thomas Walsh, Shead & Ward London, 1938).

Some "Jewish" popes previous to Malachy's prophecy include, Zephyrin (199-217), Siricus (384-399), Hormidas (514-523), and Analdet II (1130-1138). (Gert Haendler: Kirchengeschichte, Evangelische Verlagsanstalt Berlin, 1980).

Conclusively, the "New Testament" of the Bible was authored and written by Jews. [23]
by Wes Penre of illuminati news




Following the end of World War 1, there was a Communist uprising in Berlin, Germany led by Rosa Luxemburg the creation of a Soviet in Bavaria led by Kurt Eisner and a Hungarian communist republic established by Bela Kun in 1919. (Germany's neighbour)

At the time there was great concern that all of Europe might fall under the banner of Bolshevism.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060217972&postcount=58


Point? bloomin obvious init - Jewish communists trying to take over Germany long before the war.

oh do shut up or post evidence that every witness was a fake and every picture and video was faked and every court record was a fake or every survivor lied or every nazi guard lied or every ailed soldier lied

do you have a family or friends ?
do they know you rattle off this shit ?
did you recieve a blow to the head or was your brain starved of oxygen at some point ?

eternal_spirit
18-09-2011, 09:52 PM
oh do shut up or post evidence that every witness was a fake and every picture and video was faked and every court record was a fake or every survivor lied or every nazi guard lied or every ailed soldier lied

do you have a family or friends ?
do they know you rattle off this shit ?
did you recieve a blow to the head or was your brain starved of oxygen at some point ?

zzzzz

Originally Posted by eternal_spirit
If you can't debate with out name calling then don't type in my direction

eternal_spirit
18-09-2011, 10:08 PM
I am an English man whose grandfathers fought against Nazis in the war but is interested in the German's side of the story due to me having some German family who fought their/my British (Irish/English/Welsh)) family during the war.

My Indian relatives father fought for the British.

Part of the English/Irish family married into a Jewish family who married into another Jewish family - never met any of them though.

Therefore imo I have better reasons for debating such topics and am being honest about my family and their roles in the war.

nanooky
18-09-2011, 10:26 PM
I am an English man whose grandfathers fought against Nazis in the war but is interested in the German's side of the story due to me having some German family who fought their/my British (Irish/English/Welsh)) family during the war.

My Indian relatives father fought for the British.

Part of the English/Irish family married into a Jewish family who married into another Jewish family - never met any of them though.

Therefore imo I have better reasons for debating such topics and am being honest about my family and their roles in the war.

pics or its all bullshit like your links .

nanooky
18-09-2011, 10:27 PM
zzzzz

lazy bastard :D

boots
18-09-2011, 10:42 PM
Nonsense. Just pulling up you Catholic hating Jew loving bigots

According to you Catholics are Jews so you really do talk shit.

I dont hate Catholics nor Jews or purple people with pink polka dots.

(who push the nonsense that Jews are innocent never done no harm to no one) PS quit calling me a bigot you bigot of immense proportions or colossus bigotry.

Considering what you just said I'll stick to calling you a Bigot, and FYI, those that do harm dont have to be Jew's they could be any religion or race, Those in power fall into that category.



If you can't debate with out name calling then don't type in my direction (that goes for dogsmilk and Lightgiver too)

Free country, free forum it's up to you whether you reply or not and whether it's in the guidelines, So suck on that.


You and lightgiver have rabid anti catholic obsessions, doing the Orange lodge's work for them.

Can't speak for LG, but I would say that your assumption about him is as fucked up as your assumption about me.


"Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."—Dr. Isaac Wise.

LOL>3, it goes way back into antiquity further than the Egyptians.



Besides I posted Martin Luther quotes a few pages back guess what he wasn't Catholic.

So. He went mad and spent the rest of his life in a mental institution, His 'brand' of Catholicism fitted in well with the Nazi, so no surprises there.

Also posted quotes from Winston Churchill. who said
The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.

end quote.

LOL this ones another classic pro Nazi propaganda piece.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1545287/Churchills-attitude-to-Jews-divides-historians.html

However, while Churchill's name is on the article it was written by a ghostwriter, Adam Marshall Diston, a journalist employed by Churchill's office. And the suggestion of anti-Semitism was dismissed yesterday by Sir Martin Gilbert, Churchill's official biographer, who stated that the wartime leader was a strong supporter of world Jewry.



Sir Martin added that he had evidence that Churchill had sent written instructions to the ghostwriter, which had clearly not been followed.



The historian added that Diston had his own political ambitions and, in 1931, had attempted to stand as a parliamentary candidate for the New Party of Sir Oswald Mosley, the British fascist leader.



Well there's a surprise......NOT.

So was Churchil a Nazi as well? LOL! :D

You'd like it to be so, wouldn't you. Churchill was pro Jewish.



Jews in the Vatican The Vatican is Roman Catholic; this we know, don't we? Well, how come then that even Popes are Jews? The late Pope John Paul II, for example was Jewish, having a Jewish mother. And let us not forget that the first, original Pope, Peter, was of course Jewish [however, see the second paragraph beneath the List of Jewish Popes below for clarification]. Likewise, some other early Popes were from Jewish families as well, such as St. Zosimus (417-418); his father's name was Abram. Pope Evaristus (100-109) has also been mentioned as being Jewish, based upon the writings of Pope Pius V. [17]

:rolleyes: They converted to Catholicism.

Who are you quoting ??? There is no source for all this copy and paste.

Here is a more detailed list of more Jewish Popes throughout history:
Pope No. 211: Callistus III (1455-1458) Jew [18]
Pope No. 216: Alexander VI (1492-1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 217: Pius III (1503) Jew [18]
Pope No. 219: Leo X (1513-1521) Jew [18]
Pope No. 221: Clement VII (1523-1534) Jew [18] (cousin of Leo X)
Pope No. 222: Paul III (1534-1549) Jew [18]
Pope No. 227: St. Pius V (1566-1572) Jew [18]
Pope No. 228: Gregory XIII (1572-1585) Jew [18]
Pope No. 262: Pius XII (1939-1958) Jew [19]
Pope No. 264: Paul VI (1963-1978) Jew [20]
Pope No. 266: John Paul II (1978-2001 or 2005) Jew [21]
Pope No. 268: ? (This would be the last pope in accordance to St. Malachy) [22]

13 Popes were genetically born with DNA that is considered Jewish, 13 out of 266 and those 13 converted to Christianity.

Sorry dopey your propaganda doesn't cut the mustard.

Among the cardinals of the Catholic Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. There have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. [16]

Do you even think as you write? Or do you just use the word jew as propaganda.

Despite the fact there was no such office or word as "pope" until about the fourth century and that Peter was neither Roman Catholic nor pope, commencing with Peter, the first ten popes were "Jews" of some description (Philip I by William Thomas Walsh, Shead & Ward London, 1938).


That maybe true but what is really true is the fact they converted to Catholicism.

Some "Jewish" popes previous to Malachy's prophecy include, Zephyrin (199-217), Siricus (384-399), Hormidas (514-523), and Analdet II (1130-1138). (Gert Haendler: Kirchengeschichte, Evangelische Verlagsanstalt Berlin, 1980).

Conclusively, the "New Testament" of the Bible was authored and written by Jews. [23]

No it was written over a 300 year period by those that thought of Jesus as the Son of God not just a messiah.
:rolleyes:

by Wes Penre of illuminati news




Following the end of World War 1, there was a Communist uprising in Berlin, Germany led by Rosa Luxemburg the creation of a Soviet in Bavaria led by Kurt Eisner and a Hungarian communist republic established by Bela Kun in 1919. (Germany's neighbour)

At the time there was great concern that all of Europe might fall under the banner of Bolshevism.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060217972&postcount=58


Point? bloomin obvious init - Jewish communists trying to take over Germany long before the war.


Er no that is all based on Churchills ghostwriter and Nazi propaganda. But dont let that fget in the way of a good story of blaming all on the Jews, Jesuits are good at that.

boots
18-09-2011, 10:46 PM
I am an English man whose grandfathers fought against Nazis in the war but is interested in the German's side of the story due to me having some German family who fought their/my British (Irish/English/Welsh)) family during the war.

My Indian relatives father fought for the British.

Part of the English/Irish family married into a Jewish family who married into another Jewish family - never met any of them though.

Therefore imo I have better reasons for debating such topics and am being honest about my family and their roles in the war.


Whats that supposed to prove...Big deal :rolleyes:

Dont you get it, it doesn't matter, it's not about race or pigeon holing someone. Only fascist and fanatics do that, those that see themselves as separate from infinite consciousness.

eternal_spirit
18-09-2011, 10:50 PM
Whats that supposed to prove...Big deal :rolleyes:

Dont you get it, it doesn't matter, it's not about race or pigeon holing someone. Only fascist and fanatics do that, those that see themselves as separate from infinite consciousness.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Tell us about your family and their roles in the war? kosher Communists by any chance?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

eternal_spirit
18-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Why do you never answer such a simple question? been asked a few times before.

boots
18-09-2011, 11:03 PM
oh do shut up or post evidence that every witness was a fake and every picture and video was faked and every court record was a fake or every survivor lied or every nazi guard lied or every ailed soldier lied

do you have a family or friends ?
do they know you rattle off this shit ?
did you recieve a blow to the head or was your brain starved of oxygen at some point ?


Thats a very good point.

I can bring up mountains of evidence from the Nuremberg trials from the Nazi and other evidence, but is not debated.

So it's up to these holocaust deniers to post evidence, to refute written testimony.

rhydra
19-09-2011, 12:28 AM
Holocaust denial seems to be one of those things that planted to give anyone a bad name who decides to look beyond the mainstream media. Myself it's probably a planted thing that's designed to contaminate a far wider discussion.

I believe it's happened much as the history books have said, there have been much greater losses of life in that time however, the Russians for instance, lost huge numbers of people, Stalin murdered at least twice as many people too, doesn't matter if they were Jewish or Russians accused of being "counter revolutionaries," As Stalin said, a million is a statistic.

However, it's not up to the deniers to come up with evidence, just one bit of a mistake is all they need to say that the whole thing was fake, rather like the creationists highlight a small mistake to say the Bible was right when they want to disprove evolution, heliocentrism or the round Earth.

The problem is that it's a circular argument and it seems that people just can't get out of the cycle of arguing, they can't move on and become obsesses with one thing, which makes the forum look like a combat 18 revival.

bjornyvan
19-09-2011, 02:21 AM
mountains of evidence from the Nuremberg trials

http://www.cwporter.com/68mirth.jpg

It's a big mountain alright.

eternal_spirit
19-09-2011, 07:56 AM
According to you Catholics are Jews so you really do talk shit.

I dont hate Catholics nor Jews or purple people with pink polka dots

Sorry dopey your propaganda doesn't cut the mustard.

Do you even think as you write? Or do you just use the word jew as propaganda.

Er no that is all based on Churchills ghostwriter and Nazi propaganda. But dont let that fget in the way of a good story of blaming all on the Jews, Jesuits are good at that.

So. He went mad and spent the rest of his life in a mental institution, His 'brand' of Catholicism fitted in well with the Nazi, so no surprises there.


In your anti Catholic hate rage mode you said Luther was Catholic LOL. See you need so badly to connect anyone who said or done anything bad to Jews to Catholics to suit your brainwashing by Anglo centrics, Orange Lodge, Loyalist, anti Germanic, Zionists
Israelis, Talmudic bigoted hateful propaganda/agenda.
Martin Luther (1483-1546) was the first and most influential of the founders of the Protestant Reformation in Europe.

Eh Dopey. PS there were more Protestants in Nazi Germany than Catholics. Plus millions more Catholics from various countries fighting against Germany.


Considering what you just said I'll stick to calling you a Bigot
Free country, free forum it's up to you whether you reply or not and whether it's in the guidelines, So suck on that.

You're in violation of forum rules - via a tirade of personal abuse and a personal vendetta that you've been engaged in against me for a long time now. If you carry on with this behavior then I'll take it up with the mods ok? And will persist until you stop your attacks. (same goes for a few others here they know who they are).

I'll consider it's possible Churchill had ghost writer, although it could be a lie and the story came out later that it wasn't Churchill's words to cover any allegations of anti antisemitism. Regardless the words do describe an accurate account of Jewish Communists at that time.

General Patton after taking Berlin wrote that we backed the wrong side and should have take on the Communists - he died in what some say was suspicious circumstances (bumped off) he was talking too much truth obviously and would had the balls to say more.

World war1 - there were many Allied Powers, but the principal among them were France, Britain, Russia (the Triple Entente), Italy, the United States, Romania, Greece, and Japan.


Verses world war1
Germany
Austria-Hungary
Islamic Ottoman Empire (joined the Central Powers in 1914)
Bulgaria (joined the Central Powers in 1915)

Also, Italy was technically a Central Power in 1914 because it belonged to the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy. However, Italy refused to go to war because Austria was the aggressing country. Therefore Italy never actually fought on the Side of the Central Powers and in 1915 they changed to the Allied side and fought against Germany and Austria.

A century earlier
Britain/Germany/Islamic Turkish Ottoman empire allied against France (Napoleon the Sicilian/Italian?)

This is not even naming the many other allies neutral countries & those that got involved later on in these wars or even changed sides/or were split between fellow country men - or people of the same sect - or different sects/faith battling against each other.


We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
Adolph Hitler

eternal_spirit
19-09-2011, 08:32 AM
Most on this thread are old and wise enough to know respecting your opposition in debate is gentlemanly conduct - regardless if you disagree with them or despise their views (or relevant info posted).

I have done my share of name calling on various threads I admit, but it has mostly been me returning karma due to others abusing me. So can everyone get a grip and drop the abuse, name calling and false labelling of fellow posters?

I am no Nazi neither do I hate all Jews.


No need to reply - but time will tell who heeds my advice/points or carrys on with the abuse etc.

stelios
19-09-2011, 02:05 PM
I believe it's happened much as the history books have said.
buddy it could not have happened that way, because there are so many obvious errors in the history books

johnfb
19-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Most on this thread are old and wise enough to know respecting your opposition in debate is gentlemanly conduct - regardless if you disagree with them or despise their views (or relevant info posted).

I have done my share of name calling on various threads I admit, but it has mostly been me returning karma due to others abusing me. So can everyone get a grip and drop the abuse, name calling and false labelling of fellow posters?

I am no Nazi neither do I hate all Jews.


No need to reply - but time will tell who heeds my advice/points or carrys on with the abuse etc.



Good luck with that, I had to put one German forum member on my ignore list because of abuse and name calling directed at me.

boots
20-09-2011, 05:48 AM
In your anti Catholic hate rage mode you said Luther was Catholic LOL. See you need so badly to connect anyone who said or done anything bad to Jews to Catholics to suit your brainwashing by Anglo centrics, Orange Lodge, Loyalist, anti Germanic, Zionists
Israelis, Talmudic bigoted hateful propaganda/agenda.


PMSL,

That was a big bucket of spew.

You do come up with some shit dont you, ever thought of working for the MSM, they like this one line news grabbing sound bites.;)

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060220584&postcount=2264

But you keep up the propaganda, cause that is what you are paid to do. Keep repeating like a good boy, for as you do that I'll make sure to take notice.




Martin Luther (1483-1546) was the first and most influential of the founders of the Protestant Reformation in Europe.

Eh Dopey. PS there were more Protestants in Nazi Germany than Catholics. Plus millions more Catholics from various countries fighting against Germany.

His 'brand'....of course this is what you do and thats to twist sentences out of context, What was Martin Luther before he formed the protestant movement?,,,A Catholic.:rolleyes:

On the second paragraph... what!! trying to tell me something I already new? lol,




You're in violation of forum rules - via a tirade of personal abuse and a personal vendetta that you've been engaged in against me for a long time now. If you carry on with this behavior then I'll take it up with the mods ok? And will persist until you stop your attacks. (same goes for a few others here they know who they are).

It's hard top keep up with your line of thinking you keep going in different directions....clam down and smoke some more dope young man.

I'm quite amused at this statement. for it is you who has been doing making allegations of this sort for awhile now, and I have asked you to show me where I have said these thing and EVERYTIME you can come up with one sentence which states that.

Show me this history of the personal 'vendetta' ?

How will you "persist" me ????

Why have you followed me into other threads over the last 2 days, if I'm making allegation about you?

Quite frankly I couldn't less about you, you provide enough rope to hang yourself without any of my help.

I'll consider it's possible Churchill had ghost writer, although it could be a lie and the story came out later that it wasn't Churchill's words to cover any allegations of anti antisemitism. Regardless the words do describe an accurate account of Jewish Communists at that time.

The simple fact is that all these politicians had ghostwriters and taking into consideration that the ghostwriter was a member of the English fascist party who's view were against the jews, it stands to reason.

Was the Bolshevik revolution was Jewissh you say? Then why did they kill off all the top jews but one? Why was Trotsky hunted down and murdered? Why is that?

lol Fair dinkum :rolleyes:

I've cut the rest of the post because it was more dribble on how good hitler was and quite frankly is a load of horse shit.

boots
20-09-2011, 08:00 AM
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/banner.gif


To the Memories of Stig Hornshøj-Møller and Chuck Ferree.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/images/onepixel.gif
Perhaps no aspect of Holocaust denial is more widely disputed than the issue of body disposal at Auschwitz. Holocaust deniers argue that it was not possible to dispose of the 1.1 million killed at the camp. [1 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-001)] Therefore, they claim that this many people were not killed at Auschwitz. In some sense the reason deniers focus on this issue is understandable. Deniers have never been able to explain what happened to the between five and six million Jews who were missing after World War II. The easiest way to make their case would be to show what happened to the missing. Yet, with a few failed exceptions, [2 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-002)] deniers are understandably silent on the issue.
Deniers had for years centered their arguments on the impossibility of using gas chambers at Auschwitz. Their "expert" was Robert Faurisson, a French literature professor. He had made a number of arguments in this area in the late 1970s and early 1980s. [3 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-003)] His ideas on the gas chambers were incorporated into a report by an American death penalty consultant named Fred Leuchter. As will be shown elsewhere, Leuchter's report proves that he knew almost nothing about the Auschwitz gas chambers. It is riddled with numerous technical errors. [4 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-004)] Rather, he relied on Faurisson for all of his information. According to Leuchter, he met with Faurisson before undertaking his trip to Auschwitz from whom he received information for his examination. [5 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-005)] In fact, Faurisson wrote the forward to The Leuchter Report. [6 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-006)]


Deniers have sought to capitalize on Leuchter's errors and ignorance of Auschwitz. They can do this because many people don't have the technical expertise on these issues to challenge Leuchter's credibility. However, in 1994 the Institute for Forensic Research (http://www.holocaust-history.org/crosslink.cgi/http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/) in Cracow, Poland undertook a comprehensive examination of the structures identified by numerous eye witnesses as homicidal gas chambers. The Institute found traces of hydrocyanic acid in the six structures it tested. These were the remains of five crematoria and an execution block. Most disturbing for deniers is that the Institute found the greatest concentration of poison gas in the samples it tested from Crematorium II. Six of its seven samples tested positive. [7 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-007)] By contrast, Leuchter claimed that he could not find any hydrocyanic acid in this structure. [8 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-008)] This proved that Leuchter was either totally incompetent at best or dishonest at worst. The Institute's findings in Crematorium II also substantiated an earlier observation by denier critic Jean Claude Pressac, who viewed a tape of Leuchter's sample gathering, that Leuchter had purposely avoided those areas of Crematorium II which would yield positive results. [9 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-009)] It may be relevant here that the Institute had the ability to take samples from places likely to collect residue, whereas even had Leuchter been honest, he could not do so as his collecting was done illegally because he lacked permission to gather samples.



The total discrediting of the Leuchter report has caused many deniers to focus on body disposal arguments. The guru of denier body disposal arguments is Italian denier Carlo Mattogno. His arguments on Auschwitz body disposal were first set forth in a 1994 monograph where he advanced his ideas on the Auschwitz gas chambers and crematoria. [10 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-010)] He expanded his ideas on Auschwitz body disposal in an article (http://holocaust-history.org/crosslink.cgi/http://www.codoh.com/found/fndcrema.html) he coauthored on a denier website. [11 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-011)] It appears that this article was intended to be the definitive denier argument on the issue. His gas chamber arguments, along with those of all other deniers, are examined elsewhere. [12 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-012)] The purpose of the following study is to examine the body disposal issue. This is the first comprehensive analysis of denier arguments on the issue. The present study will form the basis of a chapter of a much larger work which examines all denier arguments. [13 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-013)] Mattogno has an advantage over other deniers in that his sources are often difficult to verify. He has used obscure German sources and archival material. The most important of these sources were located and examined for the present study. As will be seen, although Mattogno's writings are more sophisticated than those of most deniers, he basically reverts to the common denier tactics of omission and misrepresentation.



http://www.holocaust-history.org/images/onepixel.gif
The Typhus Myth

In 1941 Auschwitz had two double muffle coke fired furnaces built by the German firm of Topf and Sons. An additional double muffle oven was added in the Spring of 1942. Each muffle can be considered an oven, so that there were six ovens in the camp during this time. The six ovens were in the main camp known as the Stammlager or Auschwitz 1.These six ovens were housed in a crematorium known as Krema I in much of the literature. In the summer of 1942 the Auschwitz Construction Agency, known as the Bauleitung, started to build four new crematoria in the Birkenau area of the camp, also known as Auschwitz II. These four crematoria housed an additional 46 ovens. Kremas II and III each had five triple muffle furnaces (15 ovens in each) while Kremas IV and V each had a single eight muffle furnace (eight ovens in each). Like the six ovens in the Auschwitz main camp, the 46 new ovens were built by the firm of Topf and Sons and used coke as fuel. [14 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-014)] None of these facts are disputed by deniers or their critics.



The principal issue that deniers have disputed is the reason the Bauleitung began to build so many new ovens. Historians have long recognized that the extensive building campaign was because the authorities were committing mass murder and wanted an efficient means of disposing of the bodies as well as structures which could be used to gas prisoners. At the time the building began there were two structures in Birkenau which were used for gassing. They were located in the wooded area behind the camp. There was also a gas chamber in the crematorium located in the main camp which housed the six ovens. [15 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-015)] Forensic tests done by the Institute For Forensic Research in Cracow, Poland in 1994 found traces of the poisonous hydrocyanic acid in all five crematoria, [16 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-016)] consistent with a great deal of eyewitness testimony and other documents from Auschwitz which show that these structures were used as gas chambers. [17 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-017)] The two structures in the wooded area were completely destroyed by the Germans and no trace remains. However, as will be seen later on, there is photographic evidence of one of these structures.

Deniers claim that there were no gassings at Auschwitz. They attribute the principal reason for building so many ovens to other factors. In 1977 Arthur Butz, the best known of American deniers, hinted that typhus was a principal reason for building so many new ovens. However, this hint became explicit, and by 1992 he was attributing the typhus epidemic which swept the camp in the summer of 1942 as the reason for the building campaign. [18 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-018)] Carlo Mattogno attributes the building campaign to the typhus epidemic and a decision by the camp authorities to greatly expand the population of the camp. [19 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-019)]

One of the reasons deniers need to make this argument is that they must find a justification for building so many ovens. This argument also involves the amount of bodies these new ovens could dispose of in a 24 hour period. A report from the Bauleitung in June 1943, after all of the new ovens became operational for at least some period, placed the cremation capacity of all 52 ovens at 4756 per day. [20 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-020)] Deniers have not totally agreed among themselves on this issue, but Butz and Mattogno place the cremation capacity at about 1000 per day, or 30,000 per month. [21 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-021)] Mattogno claimed the maximum cremation capacity of the six original ovens was 120 per day, [22 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-022)] even though he was familiar with evidence from another concentration camp that showed a Topf double muffle oven could burn 52 per day or 26 per muffle. [23 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-023)]

In August 1942, during the worst period of the typhus epidemic, the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp had 21,451 male prisoners. [24 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-024)] The information on the female population is missing. However, it is known that the female population was about 8200 in December 1942. [25 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-025)] This means, according to denier calculations, that the camp authorities were building enough crematorium capacity in the summer of 1942 to incinerate the entire population of the camp in a month. According to the Bauleitung, this was enough capacity to cremate the camp's population in about a week. Even if it is assumed that the Bauleitung's number of 4756 per day was too high, the question arises as to why the camp authorities thought it necessary to have such a high cremation capacity. The highest amount of prisoners registered in the camp was in the summer of 1944 when the total reached slightly more than 92,000. [26 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-026)]

It is easy to see why deniers are dependent on blaming typhus as the reason for the crematoria building. Without hundreds of thousands of such deaths, there would not be any justification for such a huge building campaign. There can be no doubt that typhus was a major problem for the camp authorities in the summer of 1942. Nearly all of the memoirs on Auschwitz mention the disease. The question is how many people were actually dying from typhus.

It is known from camp registration records that there were about 404,000 registered prisoners in the camp during its 4 1/2-year existence. [27 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-027)] Polish historian Dr. Franciszek Piper did the most comprehensive demographic study of Auschwitz ever undertaken and traced 1.3 million prisoners to the camp. He found that 1.1 million had been killed. This includes 200,000 of the registered prisoners and 900,000 prisoners who never received a registration number because they were killed upon arrival. [28 (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/notes.shtml#note-028)] Deniers have never been able to account for the missing.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

boots
20-09-2011, 08:37 AM
It's a big mountain alright.

Debunk this.

7 Jan. 46
Afternoon Session
COL. TAYLOR: Will Your Lordship swear the witness?



THE PRESIDENT: What is his name?



COL. TAYLOR: Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski.
[The witness, Von dem Bach-Zelewski, took the stand.]

THE PRESIDENT: What is your name?


ERICH VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI (Witness): Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you take this oath: "I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing."



[The witness repeated the oath.]

COL. TAYLOR: May I remind the witness to speak very slowly, and to keep his answers as short as possible? Can you hear me?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.


COL. TAYLOR: Were you a member of the SS?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.


COL. TAYLOR: What was the last rank you held in the SS?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen-SS.


COL. TAYLOR: Did you serve in the 1914-18 war?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes. I was at the front from 1914 to 1918, was wounded twice, and received the Iron Cross, First and Second Class.


COL. TAYLOR: Did you remain in the army after the end of the last war?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, I stayed in the 100,000-man army.



COL. TAYLOR: How long did you remain in the army?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Till 1924, when I took my discharge.



COL. TAYLOR: Did your military activities then stop?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No, I was battalion leader in the Border Defense, and subsequently I took part in maneuvers with the Wehrmacht until the campaign against Poland.



COL. TAYLOR: Did you join the Nazi Party?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL. TAYLOR: In what year?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: In the year 1930.



475
7 Jan. 46



COL. TAYLOR: What branch of the party did you join?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: The Allgemeine-SS.



COL. TAYLOR: What were your activities in the SS prior to the outbreak of the war?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I established the Allgemeine-SS Border Defense in the districts of Schneidemuhl and Frankfurt-ander-Oder, and from, 1934 I was Oberabschnittsfuehrer in East Prussia and afterwards in Silesia.



COL. TAYLOR: Were you a member of the Reichstag during this period?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, I was a member of the Reichstag from 1932 right up to the end.



COL. TAYLOR: Did you take any active part during this war, before the campaign against the Soviet Union?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No, not before the campaign against Russia.


COL. TAYLOR: What was your rank at the beginning of the war?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: At the beginning of the war I was SS Gruppenfuehrer and lieutenant general.



COL. TAYLOR: And when were you promoted?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I was promoted on 9 November 1941 to SS Obergruppenfuehrer and general of the Waffen-SS.


COL. TAYLOR: What was your position after the beginning of the campaign against the Soviet Union?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Would you please repeat the question; it was not quite clear.


COL. TAYLOR: What was your position, your function, at the beginning of the war against the Soviet Union?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: At the beginning of the campaign against Russia I served as Higher SS and Police Leader in the central sector of the Russian Front, in the rear zone of Army Group Center.



COL. TAYLOR: Was there a similar SS official in the rear zone of each army group?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, in each army group, North, Center, and South, there was a Higher SS and Police Leader.


COL. TAYLOR: Who was the commander of Army Group Center?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: The commander of Army Group Center was, in the beginning, General Field Marshal Von Bock, and later General Field Marshal Kluge.



COL. TAYLOR: Who was the Armed Forces commander in the rear zone of Army Group Center?



476
7 Jan. 46



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: General of the Infantry Von Schenkendorff.



COL. TAYLOR: Was he directly subordinate to the commander of the army group?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL. TAYLOR: Who was your immediate superior in the SS?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Heinrich Himmler.



COL. TAYLOR: And who was your immediate superior in the rear zone of the army?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: General Von Schenkendorff.



COL. TAYLOR: What was your principal task as Higher SS and Police Leader in central Russia?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: My principal task was fighting partisans.



COL. TAYLOR: Are you generally familiar with the operations of the so-called Einsatzgruppen of the SD?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL. TAYLOR: Did these units play any important part in largescale anti-Russian operations?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No.



COL.TAYLOR: What was the principal task of the Einsatzgruppen?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: The principal task of the Einsatzgruppen of the Sicherheitspolizei was the annihilation of the Jews, gypsies, and political commissars.



COL. TAYLOR: Then what forces were used for large-scale antipartisan operations?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: For anti-partisan activities formations of the Waffen-SS, of the Ordnungspolizei, and above all, of the Wehrmacht were used.



COL. TAYLOR: Please describe the nature of these regular army units that were used for anti-partisan operations.



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: These units of the Wehrmacht were composed, in the first place, of the security divisions in the rear zone, just behind the battle front; then there were the so-called Landesschutzen battalions which were independent units under the orders of the Wehrmacht commanders; and there were also Wehrmacht formations used for the defense of certain installations such as railways and landing grounds and other military objectives. Moreover, as from 1943 or 1942, there were the so-called "alarm units" composed of formations in the rear zone.
477


7 Jan. 46



COL. TAYLOR: Until what date did you remain Higher SS and Police Leader for central Russia?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I was Higher SS and Police Leader for central Russia until the end of 1942, with occasional interruptions when I was at the front and with one interval of about 6 months when I had an illness. At the end of 1942 I was appointed Chief of Anti-Partisan Combat Units.


COL.TAYLOR: Was this position of Chief of Anti-Partisan Combat Units created specially for you?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI:Yes.



COL. TAYLOR: To whom were you directly subordinate in this new capacity?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Heinrich Himmler.



COL. TAYLOR: Were your functions in this new capacity restricted to any particular part of the Eastern Front?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No. My sphere of activity comprised the entire Eastern zone.



COL. TAYLOR: What was the general nature of your duties as Chief of Anti-Partisan Combat Units?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: First of all, I had to establish an intelligence center at Himmler's headquarters to which all reports in connection with partisan activities were dispatched, where they were evaluated, and then forwarded to the competent authorities.



COL. TAYLOR: In the course of your duties did you confer with the commanders of army groups and armies on the Eastern Front?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: With the commanders of the army groups, not of the armies, and with the district commanders of the Wehrmacht.



COL. TAYLOR: Did you advise these commanders with respect to the methods which should be employed to combat partisans?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL.TAYLOR: Will you name some of the commanders with whom you personally conferred?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I am quoting from memory, without giving a complete list: General of Cavalry Bremer, Wehrmacht commander in the East; General Field Marshal Kuechler, commanding general of Army Group North; the commanding generals of Army Group Center, Kluge and Busch; the Wehrmacht commander in the Ukraine, General of the Luftwaffe Kitzinger; General Field Marshal Freiherr van Weichs, commanding general in Serbia, at Belgrade; and General Kugler, Wehrmacht commander in the Trieste area.
478
7 Jan. 46



COL. TAYLOR: What proportion of Wehrmacht troops was used in anti-partisan operations as compared to Police and SS troops?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Since the number of Police and SS troops was very small, anti-partisan operations were undertaken mainly by Wehrmacht formations.



COL.TAYLOR: Were the anti-partisan troops usually commanded by Wehrmacht officers or by SS officers?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: It varied, depending mostly on the individual area; in the operational areas Wehrmacht officers nearly always commanded, but an order existed to the effect that the formation, be it Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS or Police, which supplied the most troops for a particular operation, had command of it.



COL. TAYLOR: Did the highest military leaders issue instructions that anti-partisan operations were to be conducted with severity?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL.TAYLOR: Did the highest military authorities issue any detailed instructions as to the methods to be used in anti-partisan operations?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No.



COL. TAYLOR: What was the result, in the occupied territories, of this lack of detailed directives from above?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: This lack of detailed directives resulted in a wild state of anarchy in all anti-partisan operations.



COL.TAYLOR: In your opinion, were the measures taken in anti-partisan operations far more severe than the circumstances warranted, or were- they not?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Since there were no definite orders and the lower commanders were forced to act independently, the operations varied according to the character of the officer in command and the quality of the troops. I am of the opinion that the operations often not only failed in their purpose but even overshot their mark.



COL. TAYLOR: Did these measures result in the unnecessary killing of large numbers of the civilian population?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes.



COL. TAYLOR: Did you report these excessive measures to the commanders of the army groups and other Wehrmacht officers with whom you worked?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: This state of affairs was generally known. There was no necessity to make a special report about it, since every operation had immediately to be reported in all detail, and was known to every responsible leader.



479
7 Jan. 46



COL. TAYLOR: Were any effective steps taken by the higher military authorities or by the commanders of army groups to stop these excesses?


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I remember that General Von Schenkendorff in particular made innumerable reports in this connection and discussed them with me; both of us forwarded them through our service channels.



COL. TAYLOR: Did these reports by General Von Schenkendorff have any effect?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No.



COL. TAYLOR: Why not?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Quartermaster General Wagner certainly attempted to effect a change by suggesting that more rigid supervision be imposed on the troops, but he did not succeed in his purpose.



COL. TAYLOR: Was an order ever issued by the highest authorities, that German soldiers who committed offenses against the civilian population were not to be punished in the military courts?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, this order was issued.


COL.TAYLOR: Was this order an obstacle to correcting the excesses of the troops?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, in my opinion this order prevented the orderly conduct of operations, since one can train troops only if one has adequate disciplinary powers and jurisdiction over them and is able to check excesses.



COL. TAYLOR: What decorations did you win during the war?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: In this war I received the clusters to the Iron Cross I and II, the German Cross in gold, and the Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross.



COL. TAYLOR: Your Lordship, the witness is available for examination by others.



THE PRESIDENT: Does the Soviet Prosecutor wish to ask any questions?



COL. POKROVSKY: With your permission, I wish to ask a series of questions.
[Turning to the witness.] What forces of the Police and SS were at your disposal in 1941 and 1942, when you were Chief of the Police and SS in the rear zone of Army Group Center?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Directly under my command in 1941 were one police regiment of the Regular Police, and occasionally, for about 2 or 3 months at a time, one SS cavalry brigade.



480
7 Jan. 46



COL. POKROVSKY: Was the Einsatzgruppe B. headed by Nebe, under your command?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No.



COL. POKROVSKY: Did you or did you not receive Nebe's reports?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Not directly, but I managed to see them.


COL. POKROVSKY: What do you know of the activities of Einsatzgruppe B?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Einsatzgruppe B was located in Smolensk, and operated in precisely the same way as all the other Einsatzgruppen. One heard everywhere in conversation that the Jews were being rounded up and sent to ghettos.


COL. POKROVSKY: Did you report to the commands of the operational groups on the activities of Einsatzgruppe B?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I asked for information on the activities of Einsatzgruppe B directly through Schenkendorff, from the I. C. of Army Group Center.



COL. POKROVSKY: Did you know of the order issued by the commander of the 6th Army, General Reichenau, regarding the partisan movement?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Would you be good enough to repeat the name; was it General Von Reichenau?



COL. POKROVSKY: Yes.



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, I know of that. I think it was in 1941, but I am not certain-it might have been in 1942-when General Von Reichenau sent to all the Wehrmacht commanders an order approving the actions taken against the Jews and partisans.



COL. POKROVSKY: In 1943 or later were there, under your command, units or companies specially selected to combat the partisan movement?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: In 1943, as Chief of Anti-Partisan Combat Units, I had no direct authority to issue orders, since I was head of the central office, but I did lead some operations wherever the authority of two commanders overlapped.



COL. POKROVSKY: Do you know anything about the existence of a special brigade consisting of smugglers, poachers, and persons released from prison?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: When all the troops really suitable for anti-partisan warfare had been withdrawn, an anti-partisan battalion under the command of Dirlewanger was formed and
481
7 Jan. 46
attached to Army Group Center at the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942. This battalion was gradually strengthened by the addition of reserve units until it reached the proportions, first, of a regiment and, later, of a brigade. This "Dirlewanger Brigade" consisted for the most part of previously convicted criminals; officially it consisted of so-called poachers, but it did include real criminals convicted of burglary, murder, et cetera.


COL. POKROVSKY: How do you explain the fact that the German Army Command so willingly strengthened and increased its forces by adding criminals to them and then using these criminals against the partisans?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I am of the opinion that this step was closely connected with a speech made by Heinrich Himmler at Weselsburg at the beginning of 1941, prior to the campaign against Russia, when he spoke of the purpose of the Russian campaign, which was, he said, to decimate the Slav population by 30 million, and that it was in order to achieve this purpose that troops of such inferior caliber were introduced.



COL. POKROVSKY: Is it correct then to say that the character of the troops used by the commanders to fight the partisans had been given careful consideration? Did they receive precise instructions how to treat the population and how to fight against the partisans? I am now referring to the proposed and officially sanctioned extermination of the population.


VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, I think this purpose was a decisive factor in the selection of certain commanders and formations.



COL. POKROVSKY: By what means and by what measures were Wehrmacht units brought in to fight the partisans? Were they specially recruited or were they used from time to time according to some set plan?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I think that on the whole there was no definite set plan. So-called large-scale operations were initiated, planned, and executed by headquarters. Anti-partisan fighting, however, was mostly of a spontaneous nature, since every lower commander was obliged to keep his own area free of partisans and thus had to act on his own initiative.



COL. POKROVSKY: You said that in very many cases generals and officers of the Wehrmacht personally headed the operations against the partisans. Can you give us some concrete facts and the names of some of the generals and officers?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: I didn't fully understand the meaning of the question. The names of commanders?
482
7 Jan. 46
COL. POKROVSKY: You have told us that certain operations during the struggle against the partisans were conducted by officers and generals of the Wehrmacht, and I now ask you if you can name some of the officers and generals?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Yes, some of the generals I have already mentioned. In addition I remember Major General Hartmann, in central Russia. One large-scale anti-partisan operation was either led by him or at least directed by him from his headquarters. I also remember Colonel General Reinhardt in whose rear zone there were important partisan groups. I might even say that there was not a single general in the rear zone who did not participate in the struggle against the partisans. I cannot, of course, remember all the names; but if I hear them mentioned, I can tell you whether or not they participated.



COL. POKROVSKY: Could you tell us what undertaking was commanded by General Ackmann?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: No, I cannot remember that.



COL. POKROVSKY: Were there any general orders relating to prisoners of war, the civilian population, or the partisans?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: Unfortunately there were no general instructions which clearly stated how the partisans or the population were to be treated. That was the complaint I made: That no instruction was issued on the treatment of the partisans and that we were not even told who was to be considered a partisan. When anything happened and the German Wehrmacht was attacked, there were never clear orders on what was to be done by way of reprisals.



COL. POKROVSKY: Am I to understand that in the absence of direct orders commanders were given a clear field and had the right to declare any person they wished a partisan and treat him accordingly?



VON DEM BACH-ZELEWSKI: The commanders certainly had to and could act and decide independently. No precise control was possible in individual cases, but the activities of all the troops used were always clearly known to the High Command; because the individual reports of the troops contained all details of the counter measures taken against the partisans-that is, they had to contain the number of partisans killed in combat, the number of partisans shot, of partisan suspects shot, and the number of our own losses. At the same time captured weapons had to be listed in detail, so that each leader could therefore see clearly how an operation worked out in practice.



COL. POKROVSKY: That means that each commander decided for himself whether there was any reason to suspect a man and to execute him?

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/01-07-46.asp#zelewski

malkor
21-09-2011, 01:17 AM
...Deniers have never been able to explain what happened to the between five and six million Jews who were missing after World War II....

actually, the hoaxers haven't been able to explain where the five or six million jews came from.

eternal_spirit
21-09-2011, 07:11 AM
11.) There were no more than 4 million Jews living in Nazi-occupied territory. As the Nazi army advanced, the Jews fled rather than be captured. On June 30, 1965, the West German government announced that 3,375,000 Jewish “holocaust survivors” had applied for reparations. Now, if we subtract 3,375,000 from 4,000,000, that leaves 625,000 unaccounted for. If we take 625,000 and add a zero to the figure, we arrive at the fictitious and truly fantastic six million lie.

12.) According to the World Almanac of 1947, the world population of Jews in 1939 was 15,688,259. these figures were supplied to the Almanac by the American Jewish Committee. Then, the Jewish-owned New York Times of Feb. 22, 1948 listed the Jewish population in Palestine as 600,000 to 700,000; and for the rest of the world, the Jewish population is listed as 15,600,000 to 18,700,000. If we add the two lower figures together, we get a minimum total of 16,200,000 Jews world-wide, which is still a net increase in the world Jewish population of at least 500,000. If six million Jews had really died, then the total should have been 10,200,000.

But since the whole six million myth was just in the process of being fabricated by the world Zionist propaganda machine, these accurate figures came out before the hoaxacaust figures could be subtracted from the equation. Considering the fact that populations generally decrease during times of war - which it most certainly did for the German people and other nationalities - it is quite astounding that the Jewish population actually increased during this time. The fact is that the vast majority of Jews simply relocated to other parts of the world: Palestine, Russia, America, South America, etc.

13.) According to a pamphlet by Dr. E.R. Fields, entitled Was There Really a Holocaust?, the Red Cross reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp inmates, no more than 300,000 could have died. In item #11 above, we were willing to grant that possibly 625,000 were unaccounted for. If half of them died in the concentration camps and the other half died or disappeared to some other country, then our figures agree.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=242

eternal_spirit
21-09-2011, 07:32 AM
PMSL,


Was the Bolshevik revolution was Jewissh you say? Then why did they kill off all the top jews but one? Why was Trotsky hunted down and murdered? Why is that?


It was a power struggle for top dog positions - and after that struggle there was loads of Jews who were top of the Communist shit pile same as before the power struggle.

You should have read this before

From the start of his argument about Stalin’s single-minded hatred of Jews, Arkady Vaksberg marks the early struggle for power between Stalin and Trotsky-Zinoviev-Kamenev-Sikolnikov: “All four men whom Stalin perceived as his rivals in the struggle for power were Jewish. Each of them, especially Trotsky, naturally had a large number of allies in higher eschelons of power who could influence the distribution of posts and positions and the political clout and popularity of candidates. There was a certain ethnic ‘imbalance’ here too.” [VAKSBERG, p. 19]

As normal in Jewish scholarship (framing Jews as victims even as they act as oppressors), JEWISH Vaksberg even makes the preposterous claim that the reason Jewish commanders ran 11 of the 12 major Gulag Archipelago concentration camps (including the director of them all, Matvei Berman, who also headed the slave labor project that built the Belomar-Baltic Canal) was that Stalin wanted to make Jews look bad, and foment anti-Semitism. “It could not,” he insists, “have been sheer coincidence.” [VAKSBERG, p. 98] Maybe not. But other possible reasons are too profoundly troubling for Vaksberg to consider.

under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).

Julius Rosenwald.
Ilya Ehrenburg, Minister of Soviet Propaganda and disseminator of anti-German hate material dating from the 1930s.

"It is legitimate to adopt a critical attitude toward the relatively large number of Jews who particularly in the first decade after the Bolshevik revolution collaborated with the Soviet Government in the persecution of other peoples."

Judaic Professor Arno Mayer of Princeton in his important book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? states that the German invasion of Russia was carried out with the intention to eradicate Bolshevik (Soviet Communist) ideology. The Germans were hardly the only ones in the West to believe that, "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry."


In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=172323

bjornyvan
21-09-2011, 10:43 AM
"The most detailed description of Jewish influence in the Bolshevik ‘revolution comes from Robert Wilton, the Russian correspondent of The Times. In 1920 he published a book in French, Les Derniers Jours des Romanofs, which gave the racial background of all the members of the Soviet government. (This does not appear in the later English translation, for some odd reason.) After the publication of this monumental work, Wilton was ostracised by the press, and he died in poverty in 1925. He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party was made up as follows:

NAME NATIONALITY
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (Larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Volodarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian

“The Council of the People’s Commissars comprises the following:

MINISTRY NAME NATIONALITY
President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Volodarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew

“The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:

NAME NATIONALITY
Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (sec.) Armenian
Bruno Lett
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Weinberg Jew
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Sachs Jew
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Jew
Wolach Czech
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (lenin) Russian
Latsis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounatcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Sclichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Pravdine) Jew

“The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:

NAME NATIONALITY
Dzerjinski (president) Pole
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Biesenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Deylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Vogel German
Zakiss Lett"

More: http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

boots
21-09-2011, 10:56 AM
It was a power struggle for top dog positions - and after that struggle there was loads of Jews who were top of the Communist shit pile same as before the power struggle.

You should have read this before

From the start of his argument about Stalin’s single-minded hatred of Jews, Arkady Vaksberg marks the early struggle for power between Stalin and Trotsky-Zinoviev-Kamenev-Sikolnikov: “All four men whom Stalin perceived as his rivals in the struggle for power were Jewish. Each of them, especially Trotsky, naturally had a large number of allies in higher eschelons of power who could influence the distribution of posts and positions and the political clout and popularity of candidates. There was a certain ethnic ‘imbalance’ here too.” [VAKSBERG, p. 19]

As normal in Jewish scholarship (framing Jews as victims even as they act as oppressors), JEWISH Vaksberg even makes the preposterous claim that the reason Jewish commanders ran 11 of the 12 major Gulag Archipelago concentration camps (including the director of them all, Matvei Berman, who also headed the slave labor project that built the Belomar-Baltic Canal) was that Stalin wanted to make Jews look bad, and foment anti-Semitism. “It could not,” he insists, “have been sheer coincidence.” [VAKSBERG, p. 98] Maybe not. But other possible reasons are too profoundly troubling for Vaksberg to consider.

under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).

Julius Rosenwald.
Ilya Ehrenburg, Minister of Soviet Propaganda and disseminator of anti-German hate material dating from the 1930s.

"It is legitimate to adopt a critical attitude toward the relatively large number of Jews who particularly in the first decade after the Bolshevik revolution collaborated with the Soviet Government in the persecution of other peoples."

Judaic Professor Arno Mayer of Princeton in his important book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? states that the German invasion of Russia was carried out with the intention to eradicate Bolshevik (Soviet Communist) ideology. The Germans were hardly the only ones in the West to believe that, "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry."


In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=172323

LMAO

Bullshit straight from Neo Nazi web sites as if that means anything, the crux of the matter is that Stalin killed all the 'jews' and anyone else who was perceived as a threat to Him those 'jews' who were part of the Bolshevik Revelation were all killed. He periodically had the Pogroms to kill off more 'jews'.

If it was all a 'jews' did it conspiracy then why were they killed off except for one.

Trying to twist the truth is what you do best, with the help of your Hitler sympathizes it works for you, lol.

bjornyvan
21-09-2011, 01:48 PM
Where is the documentation that says Stalin killed a great many Jews?

I know it is a fact that also the Soviets deported Jews from the Baltic states and interned them in various kinds of concentration camps during WWII, but I have never heard that the Soviets singled out the Jews as a special kind of enemy of the Soviet regime. It definitely seems plausible that some Jews residing in Soviet or in those states that later become taken over by Soviet were sent to Soviet concentration camps/labor camps. If these Jews were seen as part of "the Bourgeois" or as some kind of enemy collaborators. Or simply as "not useful", or "not important."

At the same time: there's a lot of evidence to prove that the Soviet leadership was largely Jewish.

You might ask the question: Why did Jews put other Jews in concentration camps? Well, maybe this means that the Jewish VIPs at the top didn't care much about "the little guys." Even if these little guys were of Jewish origin.

Israel is run by Jews. And in Israel you can notice that the Jews at the top don't care too much about the Jews at the bottom. People are rioting in Israel now against the economic policy of the Israeli power elite.

The big victim of the Soviet regime certainly wasn't the Jews. But white Christians. Ever been to a museum dedicated to crimes committed against white Christians? Ever seen a Hollywood movie about this? If you have then please tell me about it.

Stalin was a galleon figure, a frontman and puppet for the Jews that were really running the show. Very nice to have a non-Jew to take the blame for Jewish crimes. Much the same with Clinton, Bush and Obama: They get the blame while Jews pull the strings in the background.

johnfb
21-09-2011, 03:20 PM
Where is the documentation that says Stalin killed a great many Jews?

I know it is a fact that also the Soviets deported Jews from the Baltic states and interned them in various kinds of concentration camps during WWII, but I have never heard that the Soviets singled out the Jews as a special kind of enemy of the Soviet regime. It definitely seems plausible that some Jews residing in Soviet or in those states that later become taken over by Soviet were sent to Soviet concentration camps/labor camps. If these Jews were seen as part of "the Bourgeois" or as some kind of enemy collaborators. Or simply as "not useful", or "not important."

At the same time: there's a lot of evidence to prove that the Soviet leadership was largely Jewish.

You might ask the question: Why did Jews put other Jews in concentration camps? Well, maybe this means that the Jewish VIPs at the top didn't care much about "the little guys." Even if these little guys were of Jewish origin.

Israel is run by Jews. And in Israel you can notice that the Jews at the top don't care too much about the Jews at the bottom. People are rioting in Israel now against the economic policy of the Israeli power elite.

The big victim of the Soviet regime certainly wasn't the Jews. But white Christians. Ever been to a museum dedicated to crimes committed against white Christians? Ever seen a Hollywood movie about this? If you have then please tell me about it.

Stalin was a galleon figure, a frontman and puppet for the Jews that were really running the show. Very nice to have a non-Jew to take the blame for Jewish crimes. Much the same with Clinton, Bush and Obama: They get the blame while Jews pull the strings in the background.



This applies to all countries, in fact anywhere power and position can be abused...so why single out the Jews?
FFS look at Ireland right now, right this minute, are we not getting bent over by TPTB...do you think that those at the top here give a flying fuck about us at the bottom? Oh and how many Joooos are in power in Ireland?

You know, with every post you put up on this forum I feel I get to know your agenda clearer and clearer.

tinyint
21-09-2011, 03:54 PM
"The most detailed description of Jewish influence in the Bolshevik ‘revolution comes from Robert Wilton, the Russian correspondent of The Times. In 1920 he published a book in French, Les Derniers Jours des Romanofs, which gave the racial background of all the members of the Soviet government. (This does not appear in the later English translation, for some odd reason.) After the publication of this monumental work, Wilton was ostracised by the press, and he died in poverty in 1925. He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party was made up as follows:

NAME NATIONALITY
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (Larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Volodarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian

“The Council of the People’s Commissars comprises the following:

MINISTRY NAME NATIONALITY
President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Volodarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew

“The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:

NAME NATIONALITY
Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (sec.) Armenian
Bruno Lett
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Weinberg Jew
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Sachs Jew
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Jew
Wolach Czech
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (lenin) Russian
Latsis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounatcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Sclichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Pravdine) Jew

“The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:

NAME NATIONALITY
Dzerjinski (president) Pole
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Biesenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Deylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Vogel German
Zakiss Lett"

More: http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

Lenin was a jew, a very evil one.
God punished him with Syphilis for his doings.

Lenin came from a diverse ancestry. He was of Russian, German, and Swedish descent, and his maternal grandfather descended from the Jewish Blank family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin


There was a quite remarkable article on Ynet, while the damage control team here still argues over this.

Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.



Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.



We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.



Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.



In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

I thought the Germans did that unique thing?

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.



All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened
to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.



And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."



Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.



Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.



Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.



In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.



The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.



Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html


Dzerzhinsky was also a jew, an enormously evil one too.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (Polish: Feliks Dzierżyński [ˈfɛliks dʑerˈʐɨɲski], Russian: Феликс Эдмундович Дзержинский; 11 September [O.S. 30 August] 1877–July 20, 1926) was a Communist revolutionary, famous as the first director of the Bolshevik secret police, the Cheka, known later by many names during the history of the Soviet Union. The agency became notorious for torture and mass summary executions, performed especially during the Red Terror and the Russian Civil War.[1][2]

(...)

Felix Dzerzhinsky was born into a purported Polish szlachta (noble) family of the Samson coat of arms. His father was a Polish Jew named Rufin who bought the property of a Polish nobleman Dzierżyński from the Russian Tsar after it was confiscated by the Russian authorities. Young Dzerzhinsky grew up at the Dziarzhynava estate near Ivyanets and Rakaw in Western Belarus (in present-day Minsk Voblast), then part of the Russian Empire. As a youngster Dzerzhinsky was fluent in three languages Polish, Russian and Yiddish.

(...)

He was arrested for his revolutionary activities during 1897 and 1900, sent to Siberia, but escaped both times. He then travelled to Berlin and met with Rosa Luxemburg and Leo Jogiches, two prominent leaders of the Polish Social Democratic movement. They gained control of the party organization through the creation of a committee called the Komitet Zagraniczny - KZ, which dealt with the party's foreign relations. As secretary of the KZ, Dzerzhinsky was able to dominate the SDKPiL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dzerzhinsky


"We represent in ourselves organized terror -- this must be said very clearly."[13] and “[The Red Terror involves] the terrorization, arrests and extermination of enemies of the revolution on the basis of their class affiliation or of their pre-revolutionary roles.”

"Just round up all the most resolute people you can, who understand that there is nothing more effective than a bullet in the head to shut people up. Experience has shown that you only need a small number of people like that the turn a whole situation around,"

In order to undermine Russian refugee organizations hostile to the communist regime in Moscow, Dzerzhinsky invented and controlled false counterrevolutionary organizations, staged jail breaks of prominent anti-Communists, and is reported to have bombed Russian police stations.

The goal was to give the impression that counterrevolutionaries were in Russia, and needed support.

Dzerzhinsky's efforts were successful. Not only were important anti-Communist Russians lured back to Russia and to their deaths, but Britain's most renown spy of the era, Sidney Reilly, also fell into the trap, suffering the same deadly fate.
http://www.newswithviews.com/news_worthy/news_worthy38.htm


http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=141379&page=14

PS: Sverdlov is a relative to this Steward Sverdlov in the US and his Montauk talk.

bjornyvan
22-09-2011, 09:05 AM
You know, with every post you put up on this forum I feel I get to know your agenda clearer and clearer.

Well, on this forum I almost only post about the Holohoax. On other forums, however, I post about a plethora of things.

That I don't post much about botany and recipes for blueberry pancakes on the Icke forum doesn't mean I'm not interested in those things. But this is my own business, is it not? Anyway, makes no difference to me what you think of my "agenda."

Now, back to Soviet. Are you one of those that say the Soviets murdered a bunch of Jews? If so, this is something I'd like to see proof of.

johnfb
22-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Well, on this forum I almost only post about the Holohoax. On other forums, however, I post about a plethora of things.

That I don't post much about botany and recipes for blueberry pancakes on the Icke forum doesn't mean I'm not interested in those things. But this is my own business, is it not? Anyway, makes no difference to me what you think of my "agenda."

Now, back to Soviet. Are you one of those that say the Soviets murdered a bunch of Jews? If so, this is something I'd like to see proof of.

I have never made one post about this issue, nor do I intend to as I know litle or nothing about this subject.

rodin
22-09-2011, 07:23 PM
Well, on this forum I almost only post about the Holohoax. On other forums, however, I post about a plethora of things.

That I don't post much about botany and recipes for blueberry pancakes on the Icke forum doesn't mean I'm not interested in those things. But this is my own business, is it not? Anyway, makes no difference to me what you think of my "agenda."

Now, back to Soviet. Are you one of those that say the Soviets murdered a bunch of Jews? If so, this is something I'd like to see proof of.

Have you seen

http://www.henrymakow.com/stalin.html

?

nanooky
22-09-2011, 08:28 PM
Holocaust denial is illegal in a number of European countries.[1] Many countries also have broader laws that criminalize genocide denial. In addition, the European Union has issued a directive to combat racism and xenophobia, which makes provision for member states criminalising Holocaust denial, with a maximum prison sentence of between one and three years. Also, the Council of Europe's 2003 Additional Protocol to the Convention on Cyber Crime, concerning the prosecution of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems includes an article entitled Denial, gross minimisation, approval or justification of genocide or crimes against humanity, although this does not have the status of law. Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as Nazi symbols.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6364951.stm

Ernst Zuendel was convicted of 14 counts of inciting racial hatred and for denying that the Nazis killed six million Jews during World War II.

He received the maximum sentence under German law which bans Holocaust denial.

Zuendel moved to Canada in 1958 but was judged a national security threat and deported back to Germany in 2005.

tinyint
22-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Holocaust denial is illegal in a number of European countries.[1] Many countries also have broader laws that criminalize genocide denial. In addition, the European Union has issued a directive to combat racism and xenophobia, which makes provision for member states criminalising Holocaust denial, with a maximum prison sentence of between one and three years. Also, the Council of Europe's 2003 Additional Protocol to the Convention on Cyber Crime, concerning the prosecution of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems includes an article entitled Denial, gross minimisation, approval or justification of genocide or crimes against humanity, although this does not have the status of law. Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as Nazi symbols.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6364951.stm

Ernst Zuendel was convicted of 14 counts of inciting racial hatred and for denying that the Nazis killed six million Jews during World War II.

He received the maximum sentence under German law which bans Holocaust denial.

Zuendel moved to Canada in 1958 but was judged a national security threat and deported back to Germany in 2005.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=175938

eternal_spirit
22-09-2011, 08:49 PM
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=175938

nanooky you gonna register your vote on the poll linked?

eternal_spirit
22-09-2011, 09:02 PM
you havent been on all night , i answer to tinyint and he goes offline and up you pop and look at that timestamp :D
you two are the laurel and hardy of the internet :D

So you're not gonna answer my question? Instead you post your delusions (off topic harrasment and spam) claiming me and Tiny are the same person. Tell you what go ask the mods ok? When they tell you me and tiny are not the same person will you believe them? if you carry on trolling I will ask the mods to stop you ok?

tinyint
22-09-2011, 09:08 PM
So you're not gonna answer my question? Instead you post your delusions claiming me and Tiny are the same person. Tell you what go ask the mods ok? When they tell you me and tiny are not the same person will you believe them? if you carry on trolling I will ask the mods to stop you ok?

I think he escaped his meds today completely.
Don't know why he thinks I have removed friends, but he obviously has no clue about privacy settings. :rolleyes::D

tnt1
22-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Why is it not considered antisemitic to deny the holocaust of the Palestinians going on now carried out by the Israelis? What exactly is it that the Jews are doing differently other than the fact that to date they have not rounded them up and started sending them to the ovens? Torture and genocide is torture and genocide no matter how you paint the picture. In my eyes what the Jews are doing right now and what they have been doing makes them no better than Hitler was. Maybe they need to get a wake up call? I think its time humanity say look, we don't give a shit any longer that you will attack us for speaking out against you and call us anti this and anti that. You need to look in the mirror as a people and see this for what it is that you are doing.

nanooky
22-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Why is it not considered antisemitic to deny the holocaust of the Palestinians going on now carried out by the Israelis? What exactly is it that the Jews are doing differently other than the fact that to date they have not rounded them up and started sending them to the ovens? Torture and genocide is torture and genocide no matter how you paint the picture. In my eyes what the Jews are doing right now and what they have been doing makes them no better than Hitler was. Maybe they need to get a wake up call? I think its time humanity say look, we don't give a shit any longer that you will attack us for speaking out against you and call us anti this and anti that. You need to look in the mirror as a people and see this for what it is that you are doing.

you answered your own question , isreal has never invaded neighboring nations and forced its will on them the nazis invade most of europe and tried their hand at russia and britain , isreal hasnt come close to the nazis record on human rights .
not a big israeli fan but facts are facts .

hi there btw

eternal_spirit
22-09-2011, 10:04 PM
Have you two not read the posts about Communist JEWS on this thread?

starving people (the Holdomor) JEWS Running creating Gulag death camps putting people in them "before" during and "after" the war.. Maybe as many as 20 to 30 million KILLED in these camps. Communist Jews trying to take over Germany BEFORE THE WAR.

tnt1
22-09-2011, 10:20 PM
you answered your own question , isreal has never invaded neighboring nations and forced its will on them the nazis invade most of europe and tried their hand at russia and britain , isreal hasnt come close to the nazis record on human rights .
not a big israeli fan but facts are facts .

hi there btw

I guess I see it a bit diffrerently there. I consider 9-11 an attack as much as the attack on the USS Liberty was in 1967. Both events have Mossad written all over them according to more than a few writers and some of them make a good case for it.

stelios
22-09-2011, 10:22 PM
isreal has never invaded neighboring nations and forced its will on them

isreal hasnt come close to the nazis record on human rights .

not a big israeli fan but facts are facts

I assume you are ignoring the fact that Israel occupies parts of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan and did occupy a large part of Egypt for many years.
I also asume you are deliberately ignoring the war crimes committed by Mossad all over the world.
The attacks on the WTC in New York as an example.

There is no human rights because Israel does not consider the indigenous Palestinian population to be human. They are described by Israel as "two legged creatures"

And in case you are genuinely mistaken here is a video to show you where the NAZIS really are.

Israeli neo-nazis - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=myttW1lfEJs

http://www.nowpublic.com/israeli-neo-nazi-ring-caught-after-attacks-synagogues-israel-and-middle-east-guardian-unlimited-0

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//8d/7/8d7a6161ba7d16941856b8b0e25045fd.jpg

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3447377,00.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/04062007/1226992/2_wa.jpg

nanooky
22-09-2011, 10:28 PM
I assume you are ignoring the fact that Israel occupies parts of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan and did occupy a large part of Egypt for many years.
I also asume you are deliberately ignoring the war crimes committed by Mossad all over the world.
The attacks on the WTC in New York as an example.

There is no human rights because Israel does not consider the indigenous Palestinian population to be human. They are described by Israel as "two legged creatures"

And in case you are genuinely mistaken here is a video to show you where the NAZIS really are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myttW1lfEJs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=myttW1lfEJs

http://www.nowpublic.com/israeli-neo-nazi-ring-caught-after-attacks-synagogues-israel-and-middle-east-guardian-unlimited-0

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//8d/7/8d7a6161ba7d16941856b8b0e25045fd.jpg

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3447377,00.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/04062007/1226992/2_wa.jpg

again you answewr your own query ,
:cool:Israel:cool: hasnt completely invaded its neighbors it reacted to to threats those are well documented a war that lasted a week ,
they are no angels but not comparable to :mad:nazi`s:mad:

http://youtu.be/wZCSmVoYEiM

ellis_deatrip
22-09-2011, 11:31 PM
again you answewr your own query ,
:cool:Israel:cool: hasnt completely invaded its neighbors it reacted to to threats those are well documented a war that lasted a week ,
they are no angels but not comparable to :mad:nazi`s:mad:

http://youtu.be/wZCSmVoYEiM
Israel IS an invasion just being Israel. Nazis were funded by the same Zionist bankers that funded the Bolsheviks who are credited with doing much more damage.

malkor
23-09-2011, 04:29 AM
again you answewr your own query ,
:cool:Israel:cool: hasnt completely invaded its neighbors it reacted to to threats those are well documented a war that lasted a week ,
they are no angels but not comparable to :mad:nazi`s:mad:

http://youtu.be/wZCSmVoYEiM

i could argue that the germans also reacted to threats, threats to their country and threats to germans living in occupied territories (czechoslovakia and poland). it was not they who after all declared war, it was the allies.

bjornyvan
23-09-2011, 11:08 PM
malkor

Many people would argue though, that Hitler broke the Versailles Treaty by invading Poland and so England had "no choice" but to declare war. What to say to this one?

Of course, in my own mind I'm thinking:

1. If England really wanted to avoid war they wouldn't have declared war. To say that someone is forced to declare war sounds quite absurd to me.

2. The invasion of Poland, or as Hitler saw it: a rescue mission to aid ethnic Germans in Poland that were victims of terrorism, this wasn't the real cause of the war anyway. The real cause for the war (England declaring war on Germany) was Hitler's liberation of Germany from the international financial system.

Have you seen

http://www.henrymakow.com/stalin.html

?

Yep. Seems plausible to me.

flyermay
24-09-2011, 12:16 AM
One question for the 96 that voted "NO"... if the holocaust never happened, where are those sent to the camps?

I mean: where are the...
-200,000 ethnic Poles
-581,000 Yugoslavs
-380,000 East Slavs
-3,300,000 to 5,700,000 Soviet POWs
-220,000 to 500,000 Polish people
-5,000 to 25,000 blacks
-200,000 disabled and mentally ill
-5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals
-80,000 to 200,000 Freemasons
-2,500 to 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
-The uncountable German communists, socialists and trade unionists
-and the 6,000,000 unaccounted Jews from the 10,000,000 million that lived in Nazi occupied Europe.

Where is all these people?... Did they move to Israel; do the Zionists have them hidden somewhere else; or did they never exist?

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 01:37 AM
One question for the 96 that voted "NO"... if the holocaust never happened, where are those sent to the camps?

I mean: where are the...
-200,000 ethnic Poles
-581,000 Yugoslavs
-380,000 East Slavs
-3,300,000 to 5,700,000 Soviet POWs
-220,000 to 500,000 Polish people
-5,000 to 25,000 blacks
-200,000 disabled and mentally ill
-5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals
-80,000 to 200,000 Freemasons
-2,500 to 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
-The uncountable German communists, socialists and trade unionists
-and the 6,000,000 unaccounted Jews from the 10,000,000 million that lived in Nazi occupied Europe.

Where is all these people?... Did they move to Israel; do the Zionists have them hidden somewhere else; or did they never exist?

Hi flyer

My answer is: I don't know.

But then I have some questions for you:

1. What camps are you speaking of? The Nazi camps?
2. Blacks were sent to Nazi camps? Care to show a photograph of a black inmate in one of the Nazi camps?
3. From where do you have these numbers?
4. By "sent to the camps" do you mean they were sent there and never returned?

No, there were not 10 million Jews in Europe at the beginning of WWII. There were max. 250.000 in Germany, ca. 4 million in Poland, and ca. 4 million in all of Russia.

I believe max. 500.000 of the Jews that were in German care died in WWII. Chiefly from disease and starvation in 1944 and 1945. The number may actually be lower: maybe just 50.000 - 250.000. I'm not sure. Certainly the number of documented deaths among Jews in the Third Reich is quite low.

We know that the Soviets killed millions of Soviet/Russian citizens. Possibly also a significant number of Jews, but I have no proof of this. What is documented however is that a great many Jews migrated to the USA, to Israel, and to other places after WWII. And that many Jews also stayed in Europe. Ca. 150.000 Jews actually served in Hitler's army.

Anyway - if a million, or 6 million Jews are "missing from the equation", then does this mean they were sent to gas chambers? Can there be alternative theories? And if they were sent to gas chambers would there not be some kind of evidence for this?

Also keep in mind that it's pretty hard to count Jews. "Jews" are counted as members of a particular faith. Like Muslims, Hindus and Christians. What if people change their faith and/or don't want to be known as "Jews"? To make things worse: it's pretty hard to count an ethnic/cultural group which is spread throughout the world and in a time shortly after a great war.

To make things even worse: We know that the Jewish lobby pressed the World Almanac, the institution which has published population counts/censuses for the last 100 years, to change their numbers (of Jews) in the population counts in the years after WWII - as "the numbers were too high."

It's a big mess.

But to me the bottom line is that you can't accuse and punish a nation for genocide based on some dubious mathematical equation about a hypothetical "6 million missing." If we want to sentence someone for genocide we need solid proof.

Ask me if you need any links/sources for the stuff I wrote. It's all on the net somewhere and I can find it if you need to see. Those population counts etc.

tinyint
24-09-2011, 08:22 AM
One question for the 96 that voted "NO"... if the holocaust never happened, where are those sent to the camps?

I mean: where are the...
-200,000 ethnic Poles
-581,000 Yugoslavs
-380,000 East Slavs
-3,300,000 to 5,700,000 Soviet POWs
-220,000 to 500,000 Polish people
-5,000 to 25,000 blacks
-200,000 disabled and mentally ill
-5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals
-80,000 to 200,000 Freemasons
-2,500 to 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
-The uncountable German communists, socialists and trade unionists
-and the 6,000,000 unaccounted Jews from the 10,000,000 million that lived in Nazi occupied Europe.

Where is all these people?... Did they move to Israel; do the Zionists have them hidden somewhere else; or did they never exist?


Your source for the figures please? Please name it, so we can compare?
You do understand that eastern europe demographics is a huge mess, due to the bolshevist ethnic cleansing and movement of millions long before WWII?

I will post an excellent swedish "holocaust" demographics study, of course suppressed in the west.

Edit:
holocaust demography (http://www.bernhoff.se/holocaust_demography.pdf)

flyermay
24-09-2011, 10:32 AM
I don't mind if you change those figures for whatever you think is right... were is all the people sent to the Nazi camps? (with camps, I mean: Auschwitz, Belzec, Chełmno, Jasenovac, Majdanek, Maly Trostinets, Sobibor or Treblinka)

tinyint
24-09-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't mind if you change those figures for whatever you think is right... were is all the people sent to the Nazi camps? (with camps, I mean: Auschwitz, Belzec, Chełmno, Jasenovac, Majdanek, Maly Trostinets, Sobibor or Treblinka)

Post your source please.
I will not play the catch the mouse with you.

Post your base of source, and we can discuss.
As it stands, you are not worth the effort by citing the 6 million myth.
Let alone the missing plan for "extermination", you'd have to provide it before we can assume all that you posted.
I should be clear by now you fail with official jewish enforced nonsensical story.

Groundhog day again?

bukowski
24-09-2011, 11:02 AM
I don't mind if you change those figures for whatever you think is right... were is all the people sent to the Nazi camps? (with camps, I mean: Auschwitz, Belzec, Chełmno, Jasenovac, Majdanek, Maly Trostinets, Sobibor or Treblinka)

It is not up to anyone to 'prove' to you what happened to the people you CLAIM were sent to work camps,

It is YOU who must provide evidence that they were.

If you want people to believe your ridiculous 'shoah' myth, YOU prove to us what happened to them.

Nearly 300 pages of this thread and over half consistantly vote 'no', that they see through the lies of the 'holohoax'

Give it up, the game is up, the cat is out of the bag and your terrorist rogue state 'isreal' is finished

flyermay
24-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Ok, I see; no one was sent to the camps... that's why people voted there was no holocaust.

Thanks for clearing that out.

Post your source please.
I will not play the catch the mouse with you.

Post your base of source, and we can discuss.
As it stands, you are not worth the effort by citing the 6 million myth.
Let alone the missing plan for "extermination", you'd have to provide it before we can assume all that you posted.
I should be clear by now you fail with official jewish enforced nonsensical story.

Groundhog day again?

Not playing anything, I just got those figures from the first website that came under a search for holocaust; but as I said, I'm not interested in the figures, but on what happened to those sent to the camps. Since no one was ever sent to a Nazi concentration camp, the question has been already answered. Thanks...

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 11:14 AM
What a childish jerk.

No proven systematic extermination of 6 million Jews in gas chambers = no-one was sent to the camps.

:cool:

flyermay
24-09-2011, 11:17 AM
What a childish jerk.

No proven systematic extermination of 6 million Jews in gas chambers = no-one was sent to the camps.

:cool:

Yes, I also thought Bukowski's answer was childish... I mean there are pictures of Jews in the camps, and pictures of dozens of bodies in mass graves. But hey, it's his opinion...

Another question: why do Neo-Nazis want to kill jews, yet the *real* Nazis didn't?

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Yes, I also thought Bukowski's answer was childish... I mean there are pictures of Jews in the camps, and pictures of dozens of bodies in mass graves.

Another question: why do Neo-Nazis want to kill jews, yet the *real* Nazis didn't?

Yes, there are pictures of Jews in the camps. It's no secret that the Nazis put Jews into camps.

Yes, there are pictures of dozens of bodies in mass graves. Victims of the typhus epidemic. Read: Epidemic typhus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which Neo-Nazis want to kill Jews? Maybe Neo-Nazis that are sponsored by Jews that want to stigmatize anyone who criticizes the Jews? We know for a fact that several so-called Nazi organizations have in fact been run by Jews. Such as the American Nazi Party.

Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3PdeNPT3U

The most prominent "Nazis" today are probably David Duke and Ernst Zündel. Have you heard them talking about killing Jews?

Here's Zündel talking with a Jew:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purWmOFl8qc

The German Nazis clearly didn't want to kill the Jews. They would probably have been happy if someone else killed them - or the Jews suddenly vanished into thin air. But they considered it morally wrong to murder the Jews just because they didn't like them. So their goal was to deport them out of the Third Reich - preferably out of Europe altogether. This was the Final Solution. It didn't happen though, apart from a few thousand that were peacefully deported to Palestine, because other countries would not co-operate with this effort to deport the Jews out of the Third Reich.

Btw - do you believe in a Judeo-Masonic conspiracy? If so, then I guess you're a Nazi like me?

tinyint
24-09-2011, 12:10 PM
Not playing anything, I just got those figures from the first website that came under a search for holocaust; but as I said, I'm not interested in the figures, but on what happened to those sent to the camps. Since no one was ever sent to a Nazi concentration camp, the question has been already answered. Thanks...

Work camps, answered again and again.
Most dead caused by typhus epidemic.
Some camps were run by jews(capos) only guarded by military. This change in policy started around 1942, and was result of Wehrmacht and SS requirement.
Yes, violence occurred, mainly between inmates, eg racist poles vs jews, not seldom punished by the military.
The Germans were interested in good conditions for their work force, hence the use of zyklon b to fight typhus lice.
In other words, they put jews in leading positions in these camps, eg chemists, biologists, pharmacists...
Auschwitz basically was a penal work city, if you want to call it that.

PS: In my opinion, your reasoning is a bit uhm flawed, on the one hand you boldly state this many people in camps, but you refuse to reveal where you got these numbers.
However, you go on stating that numbers and demographics don't matter... hmmm...

flyermay
24-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Thanks for clearing that out... to be honest, it was the first time I ever heard that the Jews (and the rest) were not sent to any camps. I mean, not even revisionists deny that fact; as far as I know.

So, to be clear; even though you don't agree on the figures, you do agree that the jews, the poles, the slavs, the freemasons, the homosexuals, the communists, the socialists, the POWs and the rest were sent to concentration camps. And, you also agree that most of them didn't make it; according to revisionists due to disease and starvation... Wouldn't you call that a holocaust?

I mean, if I'm running a dozen camps, and most of my prisoners are dying from diseases, and I have no food to feed them; I know they are going to die if I keep them in the camps. In that case; am I not being responsible for their death?... just asking.

About the Neo-Nazis shouting and writting "kill the Jews"; I saw and heard this dozens of times in videos and on the streets. Would you say there are two types of Neo-Nazis then; or that all these that shout "kill the jews" are just idiots or disguised jews/zionists that misrepresent the rest?

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Thanks for clearing that out... to be honest, it was the first time I ever heard that the Jews (and the rest) were not sent to any camps.

Who has said that? Are you playing stupid or ... actually stupid?

flyermay
24-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Who has said that? Are you playing stupid or ... actually stupid?

It is not up to anyone to 'prove' to you what happened to the people you CLAIM were sent to work camps,

It is YOU who must provide evidence that they were.

Which part of "you CLAIM were sent to work camps" and "provide evidence that they were" did you not understand?

Could this be why you deny that Neo-Nazis go around shouting "kill the jews"?...

....

What happened with the rest of the post???

bukowski
24-09-2011, 01:29 PM
Could this be why you deny that Neo-Nazis go around shouting "kill the jews"?...

Please show me the EXACT part of my post where I wrote that

You guys are getting more desperate by the day , you been at this game too long man, get some rest, even better, get a life and stop wasting yours defending someone elses agenda with all this holocaust nonsense and pretending to be against the 'judeo masonic conspiracy'

I don't buy it, and no one else seems to fall for your act

flyermay
24-09-2011, 01:31 PM
Please show me the EXACT part of my post where I wrote that

You guys are getting more desperate by the day , you been at this game too long man, get some rest, even better, get a life and stop wasting yours defending someone elses agenda with all this holocaust nonsense and pretending to be against the 'judeo masonic conspiracy'

I don't buy it, and no one else seems to fall for your act

Never said you ever did... not even implied that you are a Neo-Nazi. I was just talking about Neo-Nazis in general; it was a question that had nothing to do with any of you.

But it is a fact: Neo-Nazis do claim that what to see Jews killed, and that they even want to kill Jews themselves. I'm currently looking for the videos I saw yesterday so that you can tell me if those Neo-Nazis are simple idiots that don't represent the rest (and that misunderstood the Nazis), or if they are Jews/Zionists disguised as Neo-Nazis, or if they are actual Neo-Nazis shouting "kill the jews".

flyermay
24-09-2011, 01:37 PM
So, to be clear; even though you don't agree on the figures, you do agree that the jews, the poles, the slavs, the freemasons, the homosexuals, the communists, the socialists, the POWs and the rest were sent to concentration camps. And, you also agree that most of them didn't make it; according to revisionists due to disease and starvation... Wouldn't you call that a holocaust?

I mean, if I'm running a dozen camps, and most of my prisoners are dying from diseases, and I have no food to feed them; I know they are going to die if I keep them in the camps. In that case; am I not being responsible for their death?... just asking.

But first... I'm also looking forward to your comments on this question.

johnfb
24-09-2011, 01:59 PM
One question for the 96 that voted "NO"... if the holocaust never happened, where are those sent to the camps?



Why, don't you know?
Well according to somethey were sent there to enjoy themselves by the swimming pool.

See post: (last 2 photos)

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071696&postcount=1035



Now please don't laugh, they take this stuff very seriously indeed.

johnfb
24-09-2011, 02:04 PM
Still no response to this post #1033...very interesting indeed.....:rolleyes:


Or maybe I missed it, if it was answered maybe one of you can quote the reply as I can't find it.
.

tinyint
24-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I don't buy it, and no one else seems to fall for your act

It seems it was again account-character rotation day.

They really want the groundhog day again and again. :rolleyes:

flyermay
24-09-2011, 02:25 PM
I really can't see what's to buy...

96 of you voted there was no holocaust; yet you all agree that jews, other ethnic minorities, and political dissidents were sent to Nazi concentration camps; you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive; and you all agree this people were held by force against their will -when they never committed any crime-, were disposed of all their possessions, were used as forced labour, and under conditions that would surely result in their deaths (according to revisionists because of diseases and starvation)...

What's to buy??? :confused:

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 02:30 PM
It seems it was again account-character rotation day.

They really want the groundhog day again and again. :rolleyes:

Actually, I have heard that 7 million Zulus were sent to The Camps and were never heard from again. Can anyone prove that these 7 million Zulus never were gassed by the evil Germans?

If no-one can prove that they weren't gassed then I think it's safe to presume that the Zulucaust indeed did happen.

Unless I see 7 million train tickets The Camps->Zululand I am forced to believe that the Nazis killed them all.

Zulucaust art:

http://www.conteco.com/clump2bl.jpg

(Made by Zulucaust eyewitness.)

Some Zulus were forced to wear Wehrmacht uniforms in The Camps:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqrvV7PI/AAAAAAAAHHM/9v0pCIF_kOw/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-africans.jpg

Before they were gassed.

tinyint
24-09-2011, 02:34 PM
I really can't see what's to buy...

96 of you voted there was no holocaust; yet you all agree that jews, other ethnic minorities, and political dissidents were sent to Nazi concentration camps; you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive; and you all agree this people were kept prisoners against their will when they never committed any crime, were used as forced labour, and under conditions that would surely result in their deaths (according to revisionists because of diseases and starvation)...

What's to buy??? :confused:

Nope, I guess we disagree with your persistence to claim there was an extermination program going on, which you lack any documented evidence, let alone forensic/pysical evidence. Contrary to the bolshevik documented physical extermination of indeed millions by famine, ethnic leansing, gulag camps. You know that very well, and yes, Bukowski is right, you are too long on this forum to claim otherwise, hence you play naive and silly.

You also know perfectly well what revisionists say.
You have deliberately claimed again productplacement nonsense of some neo-nazi under your sofa, thus trying to associate revision with nazi BS.

You get that revision is a good thing, contrary to how you use to word, implying something negative?

Paul Rasinier made it out alive, even wrote a book and was punished for telling the truth by the the zionist mafia.
How come millions of "survivors"? Lazy, stupid, ineffective Germans again?

tinyint
24-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Actually, I have heard that 7 million Zulus were sent to The Camps and were never heard from again. Can anyone prove that these 7 million Zulus never were gassed by the evil Germans?

If no-one can prove that they weren't gassed then I think it's safe to presume that the Zulucaust indeed did happen.

Unless I see 7 million train tickets The Camps->Zululand I am forced to believe that the Nazis killed them all.

Zulucaust art:

http://www.conteco.com/clump2bl.jpg

(Made by Zulucaust eyewitness.)

Some Zulus were forced to wear Wehrmacht uniforms in The Camps:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqrvV7PI/AAAAAAAAHHM/9v0pCIF_kOw/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-africans.jpg

Before they were gassed.

We gonna need a zulucaust denial law.

http://derhonigmannsagt.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/judischer-sozi-und-auschwitz-haftling-%e2%80%9cverleugnet%e2%80%9d-die-gaskammern-von-auschwitz/

I probably gonna translate it into english.
Try google translation meanwhile.

The truth cannot be suppressed much longer, it always finds the way to the surface again. :)

flyermay
24-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Nope, I guess we disagree with your persistence to claim there was an extermination program going on, which you lack any documented evidence, let alone forensic/pysical evidence. Contrary to the bolshevik documented physical extermination of indeed millions by famine, ethnic leansing, gulag camps. You know that very well, and yes, Bukowski is right, you are too long on this forum to claim otherwise, hence you play naive and silly.

You also know perfectly well what revisionists say.
You have deliberately claimed again productplacement nonsense of some neo-nazi under your sofa, thus trying to associate revision with nazi BS.

You get that revision is a good thing, contrary to how you use to word, implying something negative?

Let me repeat again exactly what I said; and exactly what I’m asking:

96 of you voted there was no holocaust; yet you all agree that Jews, other ethnic minorities, and political dissidents were sent to Nazi concentration camps; you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive; and you all agree this people were kept prisoners against their will when they never committed any crime, were used as forced labour, and under conditions that would surely result in their death (according to revisionists because of diseases and starvation)...

Did most of this people survived their forced imprisonment; or did most of this people died during their forced imprisonment?

Who kept this people against their will in concentration camps with -according to revisionists- all the tickets to die from diseases and starvation, and who is responsible for their deaths?

How does any of these means to you that "the holocaust never happened"?

tinyint
24-09-2011, 02:45 PM
Let me repeat again exactly what I said; and exactly what I’m asking:

96 of you voted there was no holocaust; yet you all agree that Jews, other ethnic minorities, and political dissidents were sent to Nazi concentration camps; you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive; and you all agree this people were kept prisoners against their will when they never committed any crime, were used as forced labour, and under conditions that would surely result in their death (according to revisionists because of diseases and starvation)...

Did most of this people survived their forced imprisonment; or did most of these people died during their forced imprisonment?

Who kept these people against their will in concentration camps with -according to revisionists- all the tickets to die from diseases and starvation, and who is responsible for their deaths?

How does any of these means to you that "the holocaust never happened"?

you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive

Let me repeat, I disagree with that bold claim, you lack evidence for it. Except you mean the Typhus epidemic dead.

Define "holocaust" please.

Cmon, don't play the old trick, I won't fall for it.

flyermay
24-09-2011, 02:57 PM
you all agree that most of this people never made it out alive Let me reat, I disagree with that bold claim, you lack evidence for it. Except you mean the Typhus epidemic dead.

So, let me get this straight -and ask it clearly so you don't misinterpret me-: since you disagree that most of these people died in the concentration camps, then you believe that most people sent to concentration camps were alive at the time of the liberations. Is this correct?

Define "holocaust" please.

Cmon, don't play the old trick, I won't fall for it.

Holocaust is the mass murder or slaughter of human beings, by other human beings; and commonly used to describe the events that lead to millions of people losing their lives in the hands of the Nazis during WWII.

bjornyvan
24-09-2011, 03:51 PM
You make no mention of the Zulus. Are you an anti-Zulu? How long have you been hating Zulus and why do you hate them so much? Do you think it's right to put Zulus in gas ovens?

tinyint
25-09-2011, 09:21 AM
You make no mention of the Zulus. Are you an anti-Zulu? How long have you been hating Zulus and why do you hate them so much? Do you think it's right to put Zulus in gas ovens?

These naughty haters and zulucaust deniers, that is anti-zuluism.
We should send the zulus a new stealth sub and build some more memorials.

fullmoon
25-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Well I do believe the holocaust happened, in the sense that the Nazis did indeed kill a ton of people, not just Jews, but other minorities.
However!
I must state that Israel seems to have used such an event to gain a sense of Exceptionalism with western nations, especially the US.
It had come to the point where any criticism spoken about Israel was deemed as "Anti-semitic" like it had become totally taboo. So in a sense, it's been used as a favorable card played by Israel's position to get away with things.
You know what I mean? Like "Playing the race card"?
Which I feel is disgusting and I think any smart and good Jews out there (Like the "Jews against Zionism"), they should feel sickened that the deaths of their people in WW2 are used in such a manner by the Zionist state.
It's like the Holocaust has become kind of like a Meal Ticket, just like how 9/11 became a meal ticket to invade and start all this horrible stuff.
These people will use the deaths of their own to their advantage, one must realise this.
The Zionist Government in Israel has used it in such a horrible way that it actually makes the Jews look like Nazi's themselves. Although I sincerely don't think Zionists equal Jews. But I think a lot of Israelis, like Americans and so, are being played like chumps by a lot of these evil people.

So yes, as you can tell, I'm completely for Palestine independence. ;)

bjornyvan
25-09-2011, 11:49 PM
Hi fullmoon

Yeah, you've understood the most important point.

johnfb
25-09-2011, 11:56 PM
Hi fullmoon

Yeah, you've understood the most important point.

...that being that people died.....

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 12:05 AM
No, the point is how the Holocaust, or Holohoax, has been used.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 12:06 AM
No, the point is how the Holocaust, or Holohoax, has been used.

And THAT'S the most important point?

fullmoon
26-09-2011, 12:16 AM
Hi fullmoon

Yeah, you've understood the most important point.

Thank you my friend, I'm glad someone shares the same look on it. I've thought about it for a while and wether one believes it was a hoax or not, it was definitely still used for the advantage of Zionists.
An Advantage to kill tons of more people I might add.

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 12:20 AM
And THAT'S the most important point?

Yes.

Point 2: there never was any Jewish holocaust. It's a big lie.
Point 3: people die all the time and nobody makes a fuss about it.

50 or more million died in Soviet. Seen a Hollywood movie about it? Any laws making it illegal to deny it? Any money being paid out to survivors?

10 million or so died quite recently in Congo. Not a big political concern.
100's of millions have been exterminated by governments the last few hundred years. And it's just business as usual. So that 6 million somebodies died in the course of some war that killed ten times as many shouldn't really be something to be particularly concerned about even if it really happened.

Btw - people are dying in Libya right now. Not thanks to badboy Gaddafi, but to the nice NATO guys and their "rebels." How do you feel about that?

flyermay
26-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Well I do believe the holocaust happened, in the sense that the Nazis did indeed kill a ton of people, not just Jews, but other minorities.
However!
I must state that Israel seems to have used such an event to gain a sense of Exceptionalism with western nations, especially the US.
It had come to the point where any criticism spoken about Israel was deemed as "Anti-semitic" like it had become totally taboo. So in a sense, it's been used as a favorable card played by Israel's position to get away with things.
You know what I mean? Like "Playing the race card"?
Which I feel is disgusting and I think any smart and good Jews out there (Like the "Jews against Zionism"), they should feel sickened that the deaths of their people in WW2 are used in such a manner by the Zionist state.
It's like the Holocaust has become kind of like a Meal Ticket, just like how 9/11 became a meal ticket to invade and start all this horrible stuff.
These people will use the deaths of their own to their advantage, one must realise this.
The Zionist Government in Israel has used it in such a horrible way that it actually makes the Jews look like Nazi's themselves. Although I sincerely don't think Zionists equal Jews. But I think a lot of Israelis, like Americans and so, are being played like chumps by a lot of these evil people.

So yes, as you can tell, I'm completely for Palestine independence. ;)

Of course the holocaust happened; anyone who denies it is a complete idiot. And I don't waste my time anymore arguing such nonsense, but I just found appalling that 96 DI forum members moved in just 6 month from "the figures are wrong" to "the holocaust never happened"... which is quite sad actually. :(

But maybe many people didn't understand the question -perhaps because this people had been asking this same question non-stop for a year, until they finally got 52% to absolve the Nazis-. The question is not asking whether or not the holocaust has been used as propaganda; it's not asking whether or not the Zionists benefited from the holocaust; it's not asking if only Jews perished in the holocaust; it's not asking if the figures proposed by historians are right; and it's also not asking anything about Palestine or Israel... it only asks whether or not the holocaust happened... and as you well said -even though some refuse to understand what you meant- the holocaust DID happen.

...

The Zulucaust... lol

Is this what I'm up against?... are these the arguments that turned half of the DI forum into holocaust deniers? (what a laugh :D)

thoreau
26-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Of course the holocaust happened; anyone who denies it is a complete idiot. And I don't waste my time anymore arguing such nonsense, but I just found appalling that 96 DI forum members moved in just 6 month from "the figures are wrong" to "the holocaust never happened"... which is quite sad actually. :(

But maybe many people didn't understand the question -perhaps because this people had been asking this same question non-stop for a year, until they finally got 52% to absolve the Nazis-. The question is not asking whether or not the holocaust has been used as propaganda; it's not asking whether or not the Zionists benefited from the holocaust; it's not asking if only Jews perished in the holocaust; it's not asking if the figures proposed by historians are right; and it's also not asking anything about Palestine or Israel... it only asks whether or not the holocaust happened... and as you well said -even though some refuse to understand what you meant- the holocaust DID happen.

...

The Zulucaust... lol

Is this what I'm up against?... are these the arguments that turned half of the DI forum into holocaust deniers? (what a laugh :D)

well said ^^

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 02:02 PM
You poor people are brainwashed.

And ... why do you hate Zulus? Do you think it's a good thing that exactly 7 million innocent and defenseless Zulus were murdered in Nazi gas ovens and turned into lampshades and handbags? You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Inside exactly this gas oven in Auschwitz no less than 5000 Zulus were exterminated on a daily basis:

http://n.b5z.net/i/u/6131886/i/pizza_oven_with_fire_ezr.jpg

This super efficient one in Birkenau actually killed a whole million Zulus in two hours - as related in the Zulucaust survivor book "Five months in the chimney" by Ombeku Okelele Batabang:

http://img.diynetwork.com/DIY/2008/09/03/dblg207_2cb_PizzaOven_CROP2_LR2-148_lg.jpg

http://www.pbs.org/opb/thenewheroes/pix/img_nh_zulu.jpg
Ombeku

johnfb
26-09-2011, 03:31 PM
Yes.

Point 2: there never was any Jewish holocaust. It's a big lie.
Point 3: people die all the time and nobody makes a fuss about it.

50 or more million died in Soviet. Seen a Hollywood movie about it? Any laws making it illegal to deny it? Any money being paid out to survivors?

10 million or so died quite recently in Congo. Not a big political concern.
100's of millions have been exterminated by governments the last few hundred years. And it's just business as usual. So that 6 million somebodies died in the course of some war that killed ten times as many shouldn't really be something to be particularly concerned about even if it really happened.

Btw - people are dying in Libya right now. Not thanks to badboy Gaddafi, but to the nice NATO guys and their "rebels." How do you feel about that?



Not the topic here, so why dont you start another thread on that.

The most important point is that people died. It always will be.

My God next you will be saying that they didn't kill thousands retarded people with carbon monoxide in institutions...or that it doesn't matter.




.

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 03:57 PM
Not the topic here, so why dont you start another thread on that.

The most important point is that people died. It always will be.

.

You are in denial of the obvious facts:

1. People die all the time and nobody usually gives a shit.
2. Those 6 million Jews, whether real or fictional, have received disproportionately much attention in comparison with f.ex the millions of Germans or Russians that died 1930-1950.
3. There can be no doubt whatsoever that "the Holocaust" is a gigantic money machine in addition to being a tool for political control.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 04:13 PM
You are in denial of the obvious facts:

1. People die all the time and nobody usually gives a shit. Yes
2. Those 6 million Jews, whether real or fictional, have received disproportionately much attention in comparison with f.ex the millions of Germans or Russians that died 1930-1950. Yes
3. There can be no doubt whatsoever that "the Holocaust" is a gigantic money machine in addition to being a tool for political control. Yes

Yes, and you point is?

As I said, thousands of retarded people were murderd by the Nazis in institutions, and who cares about that....the important fact remains that people died.

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 05:01 PM
Actually, nobody died. In the so-called "Holocaust." It never happened. All "the Holocaust" is is a fantasy with very real consequences.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 05:32 PM
Actually, nobody died. In the so-called "Holocaust." It never happened. All "the Holocaust" is is a fantasy with very real consequences.

Are you saying that retarted people were not killed by carbon monoxide in special institutions?

flyermay
26-09-2011, 05:58 PM
Are you saying that retarted people were not killed by carbon monoxide in special institutions?

You're never going to get through to him. I just checked his posts, and he is a Neo-Nazi; even if by any chance you get him to acknowledge the millions of innocent people slaughtered by the Nazis, he would still continue to justify them.

whale
26-09-2011, 06:06 PM
Are you saying that retarted people were not killed by carbon monoxide in special institutions?

they killed plenty of retarded people, 200,000 maybe, in the T4 programme, but there were no death camps for Jews, only work camps

johnfb
26-09-2011, 06:13 PM
they killed plenty of retarded people, 200,000 maybe, in the T4 programme, but there were no death camps for Jews, only work camps

Actually, nobody died. In the so-called "Holocaust." It never happened. All "the Holocaust" is is a fantasy with very real consequences.

Well he disagrees with you.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 06:15 PM
You're never going to get through to him. I just checked his posts, and he is a Neo-Nazi; even if by any chance you get him to acknowledge the millions of innocent people slaughtered by the Nazis, he would still continue to justify them.

Ohh I have known his agenda for some time now.

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 06:17 PM
they killed plenty of retarded people, 200,000 maybe, in the T4 programme, but there were no death camps for Jews, only work camps

Very possible. But T4 is T4 and Holocaust is Holocaust.

If someone got hit by a car in 1936 or slipped on a banana peel in 1943 is that "the Holocaust" as well? The euthanasia program was an international program which started way before Nazi Germany and continued long afterwards. You can't just throw it into the Holocaust salad just because it's convenient.

And you can't call someone who's a Holocaust non-believer a "Neo-Nazi" or "anti-semite" just because it's convenient either. I'm talking to Johnnyboy and flyermay here.

Do I hate Jews? No, I hate nobody. I hate Judaism though and feel it should be made illegal.

Am I a Nazi? No, but I see many good things in the historical German National Socialism and I have a lot of sympathy for the German Nazis that I in many ways consider to be great heroes.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 06:20 PM
Very possible. But T4 is T4 and Holocaust is Holocaust.

If someone got hit by a car in 1936 or slipped on a banana peel in 1943 is that "the Holocaust" as well? The euthanasia program was an international program which started way before Nazi Germany and continued long afterwards. You can't just throw it into the Holocaust salad just because it's convenient.

And you can't call someone who's a Holocaust non-believer a "Neo-Nazi" or "anti-semite" just because it's convenient either. I'm talking to Johnnyboy and flyermay here.

Do I hate Jews? No, I hate nobody. I hate Judaism though and feel it should be made illegal.

Am I a Nazi? No, but I see many good things in the historical German National Socialism and I have a lot of sympathy for the German Nazis that I in many ways consider to be great heroes.


Can you point me to the post where I called you a Neo-Nazi or anti-semite please, as I can't seem to find that one.


So answer my question:
Where thousands of retarded people killed using carbon monoxide in special institutions or not???

flyermay
26-09-2011, 06:29 PM
Ohh I have known his agenda for some time now.

Haven't been around here for months... are there many more; or was he able to move half of the forum into Nazism on his own?

flyermay
26-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Am I a Nazi? No, but I see many good things in the historical German National Socialism and I have a lot of sympathy for the German Nazis that I in many ways consider to be great heroes.

No, of course you're not a Nazi... you're just a wannabe: a Neo-Nazi. :D

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 06:32 PM
johnny

You called me a "Nazi anti-semite bastard" on the astral plane two hours ago.

So answer my question:
Where thousands of retarded people killed using carbon monoxide in special institutions or not???

I don't know. I wasn't there. But I think there's reason to believe that this claim is true, yes.

No, of course you're not a Nazi... you're just a wannabe: a Neo-Nazi. :D

So? Can't I be allowed to be a wannabe Neo-Nazi if I so wish? Is not this my human right? Are you going to put me in the gas chamber?

johnfb
26-09-2011, 06:34 PM
johnny

You called me a "Nazi anti-semite bastard" on the astral plane two hours ago.



I don't know. I wasn't there. But I think there's reason to believe that this claim is true, yes.




Show me the post where I called you those names or take it back.



Therefore people were gasssed, yes?

johnfb
26-09-2011, 06:37 PM
Haven't been around here for months... are there many more; or was he able to move half of the forum into Nazism on his own?

Its just the same old guys and puppets, you could leave this forum for years and come back and see the same story pushed out from the same people.

flyermay
26-09-2011, 06:53 PM
So? Can't I be allowed to be a wannabe Neo-Nazi if I so wish? Is not this my human right? Are you going to put me in the gas chamber?

It's not about whether you can or not... you are a Neo-Nazi; and now that everyone knows what you are here for, and why you defend the most obnoxious criminals in recent history, it's going to be a lot more difficult for you to spread your sick hateful ideology around here.

Carry on... what was it you were going to tell us you like so much about your heroes: the Nazis. :cool:

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 06:57 PM
Show me the post where I called you those names or take it back.


Please, don't shout. We Nazis have frail nerves. All the negativity from anti-Nazis and non-Jew-haters we have to deal with, y'know.

The Zulus are the only ones that understand us.

flyermay: Why are you throwing an ancient universal symbol into a rubbish bin? Are you an anti-symbolite? Are you personally in favor of exterminating symbols in gas ovens and making them into soap and lampshades?

johnfb
26-09-2011, 07:00 PM
Please, don't shout. We Nazis have frail nerves. All the negativity from anti-Nazis and non-Jew-haters we have to deal with, y'know.

The Zulus are the only ones that understand us.

Show me the posts where I refered to you as Neo-Nazi or anti-semite please or at least have the good manners to apologise for that.



Now perhaps an answer to the question:


Originally Posted by bjornyvan
I don't know. I wasn't there. But I think there's reason to believe that this claim is true, yes.

Therefore people were gasssed, yes?

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 07:16 PM
johnny

I apologize: You never called me a Nazi. (But I know you were just about to.)

Yes, if it can be proven that some 1000 retards were gassed then this is proof that some 1000 retards were gassed. Of course. But I think you are forgetting that the topic is the so-called Jewish holocaust in which the Jews were targeted for extermination and then exterminated in Nazi death ovens. All 6 million of them.

You can't just say that "Bill and Jill were killed by gas in the Retard Hospital in Heidelberg in 1922 and so this proves that 6 million Jews were also killed by gas in Nazi concentration camps in 1941-1945."

That's idiotic.

But I forgive you - as the "Holocaust" is the most idiotic fantasy in the history of man and due to lifelong Holobrainwashing your brain has of course become smitten by this Holoidiocy. That's only natural.

Or: it's not unusual. Holosurvivor Tom Jones (Alex Jones' cousin 6 million times removed) has this song about it:

Tom Jones - It's Not Unusual (Live) - YouTube

johnfb
26-09-2011, 07:22 PM
johnny

I apologize: You never called me a Nazi. (But I know you were just about to.)

Yes, if it can be proven that some 1000 retards were gassed then this is proof that some 1000 retards were gassed. Of course. But I think you are forgetting that the topic is the so-called Jewish holocaust in which the Jews were targeted for extermination and then exterminated in Nazi death ovens. All 6 million of them.

You can't just say that "Bill and Jill were killed by gas in the Retard Hospital in Heidelberg in 1922 and so this proves that 6 million Jews were also killed by gas in Nazi concentration camps in 1941-1945."

That's idiotic.

But I forgive you - as the "Holocaust" is the most idiotic fantasy in the history of man and due to lifelong Holobrainwashing your brain has of course become smitten by this Holoidiocy. That's only natural.




Thank you for your apology, respectfully accepted. Lets be big boys and play nice.


Now moving on.


So far we have agreed and accepted between us that:

1. People were killed in the institutions
2. These people were killed by leathal injections and by gassings


Next question:

Were Jewish people gassed in these institutions?





EDIT:

Yes, if it can be proven that some 1000 retards were gassed then this is proof that some 1000 retards were gassed.



Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm informs us:

The first large-scale euthanasia action seems to have taken place in Pomerania and eastern Prussia shortly after the Polish campaign. During 1940, four euthanasia institutions went into operation: Grafeneck, in January, Brandenburg, in February, Hartheim, in May and Sonnenstein, in June. In the first half of the year, 8,765 persons were gassed in these four institutions, three-quarters of them in May and June, a time when world attention was focused on the Battle of France. By the end of 1940, a total of 26,459 patients had been put to death, and in the first eight months of 1941, an additional 35,049 were "disinfected." These were the figures given by the accounting section of T4's head office. ("The Euthanasia Program," in The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Vol II, pp.452-454)http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/t4.html

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 07:49 PM
So what if they were?

johnfb
26-09-2011, 07:51 PM
So what if they were?


So are you agreeing that Jews were gassed in these institutions?

rodin
26-09-2011, 08:13 PM
they killed plenty of retarded people, 200,000 maybe, in the T4 programme, but there were no death camps for Jews, only work camps

What is the evidence for this?

flyermay
26-09-2011, 08:50 PM
What is the evidence for this?

Oh come on, I don't think anyone is so stupid as to fall for that old empty argument...

This is how the *real* world works: it is you who is contradicting every single historian in the entire world (except those 2 Nazis, which we all know why they deny the attrocities carried out by their heroes); therefore, it is you who has to provide any evidence of anything.

Start working... and while you are at it; also prove none of this other people perished in the holocaust:
-200,000 ethnic Poles
-581,000 Yugoslavs
-380,000 East Slavs
-3,300,000 to 5,700,000 Soviet POWs
-220,000 to 500,000 Polish people
-5,000 to 25,000 blacks
-5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals
-80,000 to 200,000 Freemasons
-2,500 to 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
-The uncountable German communists, socialists and trade unionists
-and the millions of Jews slaughtered all over the Nazi occupied territories; don't forget them.

Good luck!!!

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 08:57 PM
Oh come on, I don't think anyone is so stupid as to fall for that old empty argument...

This is how the *real* world works: it is you who is contradicting every single historian in the entire world (except those 2 Nazis, which we all know why they deny the attrocities carried out by their heroes); therefore, it is you who has to provide any evidence of anything.

Start working... and while you are at it; also prove none of this other people perished in the holocaust:
-200,000 ethnic Poles
-581,000 Yugoslavs
-380,000 East Slavs
-3,300,000 to 5,700,000 Soviet POWs
-220,000 to 500,000 Polish people
-5,000 to 25,000 blacks
-5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals
-80,000 to 200,000 Freemasons
-2,500 to 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
-The uncountable German communists, socialists and trade unionists
-and the millions of Jews slaughtered all over the Nazi occupied territories; don't forget them.

Good luck!!!

flyermay

Please prove that the Jews did not holocaust

7 million Zulus (the Zulucaust)
50 million polar bears (the polarcaust)
and 60 billion handicapped Chinese librarians (the Chinese Libraricaust)

sometime, somewhere, by means of poisoned pickled onions shaped like Mickey Mouse.

Then we can talk.

http://www.ecoenquirer.com/polar-bear-heat.jpg
Evil Jew holocausting innocent P-bear.

johnfb
26-09-2011, 09:02 PM
So are you agreeing that Jews were gassed in these institutions?

Maybe you forgot to answer bjornyvan

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 09:06 PM
Maybe you forgot to answer bjornyvan

I have no idea whether any Jew was gassed in the "Retardcaust." I doubt it though - as the Jews are sneaky bastards* and usually manage to avoid such things. But why this obsession with Jews?

* Scientifically proven.

flyermay
26-09-2011, 09:07 PM
flyermay

Please prove that the Jews did not holocaust

7 million Zulus (the Zulucaust)
50 million polar bears (the polarcaust)
and 60 billion handicapped Chinese librarians (the Chinese Libraricaust)

sometime, somewhere, by means of poisoned pickled onions shaped like Mickey Mouse.

Then we can talk.

Evil Jew holocausting innocent P-bear.

Why would I?

How many morons do you think you are distracting by avoiding the argument?

It is you who lives in la-la-land, it is you who denies the obvious, it is you who puts his faith in 2 Nazi idiots -that call themselves historians- just because they say what you want to hear... it is you who needs to provide any evidence of anything.

I have every single historian backing up my argument; agaiinst your 2 Nazi degenerates (which we all know why they lie)... I don't need to do shit, but sit here and laugh at how dumb Neo-Nazis are. :D

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Why would I?

How many morons do you think you are distracting by avoiding the argument?

It is you who lives in la-la-land, it is you who denies the obvious, it is you who puts his faith in 2 Nazi idiots -that call themselves historians- just because they say what you want to hear... it is you who needs to provide any evidence of anything.

I have every single historian backing up my argument; agaiinst your 2 Nazi degenerates (which we all know why they lie)... I don't need to do shit, but just sit here and laugh at how dumb Neo-Nazis are. :D

Why do you hate Zulus? And why do you hate ancient universal symbols? How long have you been denying polar bears? Are you an anti-Chinese and an anti-handicapped librarian?

ellis_deatrip
26-09-2011, 09:52 PM
...I have every single historian backing up my argument; agaiinst your 2 Nazi degenerates (which we all know why they lie)... I don't need to do shit, but sit here and laugh at how dumb Neo-Nazis are. :D
Haha...."Every single historian", huh? http://geofftop.com/smile/n5.gif
"Nazis" never called themselves "Nazi",btw. It's now become just an over-used,loaded term that has been associated with anything that is supposedly evil. Based on a big lie. Whenever anyone uses that term, along with "Neo-Nazi" they are just supporting and prolonging the lie.

flyermay
26-09-2011, 10:04 PM
"Nazis" never called themselves "Nazi",btw. It's now become just an over-used,loaded term that has been associated with anything that is supposedly evil. Based on a big lie. Whenever anyone uses that term, along with "Neo-Nazi" they are just supporting and prolonging the lie.

I completely agree... but it happens that our friend here, and these 2 supposed historians whom he blindly believes, are indeed Neo-Nazis.

Now, why would a Neo-Nazi deny the holocaust?... do your maths...

flyermay
26-09-2011, 10:10 PM
Haha...."Every single historian", huh? http://geofftop.com/smile/n5.gif

And this might be a surprise for you, but yes; every single historian agrees there was a holocaust (even these 2 Nazis that don't believe in gas chambers).

bjornyvan
26-09-2011, 11:50 PM
A holocaust, yes...

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/hamburg10.jpg

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/hamburg23.jpg

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/hamburg11.jpg

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/hamburg12.jpg

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/dresden_ruin.jpg

http://www.vigrid.net/hcbilder/bombekrig/dresden_likstabling.jpg

mercy
27-09-2011, 01:24 AM
My mind keep going in circles on this..I have a really hard time accepting that Holocoust actually could be some kind of hoax,blown out of proportions by victims of an ugly war..

But my logic and reason insist asking what feels like stubbonly relevant questions..

Would it theoretecly be possible that the photos, alledgedly showing jews in the middle of holocaust and the photos of massgraves for alledged gassed jews,could actually be photos of people in the middle of war and photos of massgraves for thypos victims and other war casualtys?

Could it be possible that the reason for not finding a papertrail/documents,is simply because it IS a conspiracy theory?..and would it be realistic to assume that it would be unlikely,if not impossible,that no desicive significant,incriminating
and revealing documents would survive a last minute coverup in the chaotic last periode of the war?

Would the fact that there were jewish soldiers and officers in the german army,and the fact that Germany did business with jewish suppliers during the war,not confirm any reasonable doubts towards the officiel conspiracy theory claiming a fierce plan to exterminate the jews?

Would it seem realistic to expect that if 6000000 jews died,there would exist an attemt for an almost complete list of the victims?

Would it seem right to assume that a lie,an illusion, in the beginning of the war aftermath,would have been possible to promote and maintain,but that such an illusion would suffer to crumble and fall apart through the course of time?

Would it be fair to say that historically every other conspiracy theory claiming efforts and actions to exterminate groups of people,mostly started out as rumors and alligations that through the course of time and research compiled more and more evidence that made these conspiracy theories become proven facts?

Would it be reasonable to expect an ongoing scientific investigation that through the years have actually compiled further and more substantiated evidence for the officiel Holocaust conspiracy theory?

Would it be fair to insist that an early american postwar deathcamp investigation that found no evidence for massgassing and therefor produced a document that called for punishing people that kept spreading such lies and illusions,have absolutely nothing in common with a modern law that punishes and imprisons people,scientists and reseachers, for questioning,opposing and researching the official story,known as the Holocoust?

Would it be fair to conclude,that even though the reasonable doubt concerning the different core aspects of the official story would maybe not individually undermine the whole theory,the sum of ALL factors combined being subject to reasonable doubts,as a whole would mount up to some very serious discrepancies regarding the official story?

If all these many different core factors in a theory can objectivly be classified as "within a reasonable doubt",does logic not dictate that the theory as a whole,is what HAVE to be considered a yet unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

Noone can truthfully reply NO to any of the above questions,its all YES..and that bothers me somehow..

The conscequences of this is staggering,but still I cant get my mind completely around it..60+ years of no reason whatsoever to doubt the officiel story ,makes the Holocaust feel very very real in my head..So real that I actually feel stupid for even considering that it COULD be not true..But there is no way around it really,if Truth is the ideal..

I hear old Sherlock whispering in the background.."when you have eliminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable,must be the truth"..

In light of all the above,would the all too real fact that Thought Crime Law is making it illegal to question the official story,not make it awfull reasonable to suggest that the law is needed to protect a Lie rather than to believe its needed to protect the Truth?

And that in it self,is a kinda very significant indication that something is not right.....

You believers cant honestly insist,that when everything is taken in to consideration,there isnt atleast some thought provoking grounds for a fair amount of reasonable doubt..

And doubts need to be clarified with answers..Not by parading the official claims as arguments insane to make questionable..And certantly not by censorship and criminal law..

Something just aint right...

Rascists are idiots..but aside the obscurety that might undoubtly influence the debat ,there is still enough substance to make a very reasonable case for suggesting the Holocaust being a Hoax..or at least,as for so far,an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory...

I will insist its wrong too get angry and hatefull against people who objectively questions the many aspects of the Holocaust and the possibility of it actually just being some (admittedly) bad feathers that by some opportunistic "slightOfHand" hoax became a prototype evil Roster,forever serving as a symbol that manifests Jewish people as being stigmatized victims,consequently granded a license to do almost whatever they want, legitimised by the illusive threat that they are fighting an ever ongoing global conspiracy to exterminate the jewish people...

My mind cant help compare this to the War on Terror..There was no real global terror threat,but the plan was to use the military aggression to provoke reactions they could parade off as "The big evil we had to go to war to stop"...

So..maybe there WAS no plan or conspiracy to exterminate Jews and no latent human hate against jews...Maybe the first undeniable signs of hostility against jews was born as the obvious consequences of the foundation of the state of israel and what has been done ever since to secure and further its growt...

No historical suffering or persecusion,only the hostile reaction to modern jewish behavior...

Hmm..

Im not here to convince anybody of anything...

I just felt for sharing my thoughts..

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 01:51 AM
Asking questions is good.

hadaka_jimmy
27-09-2011, 12:19 PM
It's always been a question of 'thou doth protest too much'.

When the ADL will jump from a high height on anyone who dares question the official line, where you can still be jailing in Europe for denying or questioning the official line in 2011.

Just for those two reasons alone people should be suspect.

johnfb
27-09-2011, 01:45 PM
I have no idea whether any Jew was gassed in the "Retardcaust." I doubt it though - as the Jews are sneaky bastards* and usually manage to avoid such things. But why this obsession with Jews?

* Scientifically proven.

Stupid comments, but usual from you, so I move on.



Those targeted were identified as "life unworthy of life" , including but not limited to the criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane and the weak, for elimination from the chain of heredity.


... mental patients of Jewish origin - like the majority of mentally and physically disabled people in the German Reich - had become the victims of the first big systematic program of mass murder carried out by the Nazi regime. In the course of the Aktion "T4" (named after the address of the Berlin Euthanasia Headquarters at Tiergartenstraße 4) carried out in 1940/41, Jewish hospital patients were registered, selected, and deported to extermination institutions, and gassed to death with carbon monoxide.

In Austria, where Jews at that time were already ghettoized in special mass housing in Vienna, the Wagner von Jauregg Mental Hospital "Am Steinhof" functioned as a collection place. In the summer of 1940 patients were brought to the Hartheim extermination institution; some of them were brought there via the Niedernhart sanatorium. The monthly report of the Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Vienna dated July 1940 states that 400 Jews had been deported from "Steinhof." In the course of the year 1940 some reports of deaths and some urns of ashes reached Vienna. Inquiries about the fate of these people were dryly answered with the words "transferred by ministerial order to a hospital that has not been identified." The cause and the place of death were systematically forged in documents relating to the patients deaths and in explanations given to relatives or authorities. Many death certificates relating to deported Jewish psychiatric patients were issued by "the registry office, Chelm, Lublin district", but in actuality they had been fabricated in the Berlin "T4" headquarters, brought to Lublin by a messenger, and mailed from there.
http://www.doew.at/projekte/holocaust/shoahengl/euth/euth.html



So there were Jews murdered in this fashion.

So now we must agree that:


1. People were killed in the institutions
2. These people were killed by leathal injections and by gassings
3. There were Jewish patients
4. Jews were gassed at the institutions

This covers the question about gassing of Jews.
We now have it that thay were.


Your arguement seems to centre on the number, as the fact that Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime using gassing has been proven.

picha
27-09-2011, 02:13 PM
It's always been a question of 'thou doth protest too much'.

When the ADL will jump from a high height on anyone who dares question the official line, where you can still be jailing in Europe for denying or questioning the official line in 2011.

Just for those two reasons alone people should be suspect.

It is very suspicious that its illegal in some countries to question the official version. I really don't see how thats committing a crime at all.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 02:32 PM
It is very suspicious that its illegal in some countries to question the official version. I really don't see how thats committing a crime at all.

Not really. first of all this was only the case years after so there was plenty of time for people to point out any facts that were present.

It was made illegal as it prevented Nasi's from getting off the hook, when chased up for some of their war crimes.

but its irrelevant anyway.

Because there are many countries that have not made it illegal to question it and there for enough freedom for info to be presented.

What I find suspicious is that the people who want the holocaust to be a hoax usually use this point more than any other factual point that proves a case.

In the last few years we have seen a Catholic Priest and the Iran President speak on mainstream TV denying the holocaust so its hardly kept under the mat.

There is also a clear agenda to make people feel sorry for the BNP and how the poor old chaps are so oppressed... along with the poor old Nazi's

And considering this is all in a country controlled by people who funded the Nazi's then to me THAT is suspicious.

picha
27-09-2011, 02:38 PM
Not really. first of all this was only the case years after so there was plenty of time for people to point out any facts that were present.

It was made illegal as it prevented Nasi's from getting off the hook, when chased up for some of their war crimes.

but its irrelevant anyway.

Because there are many countries that have not made it illegal to question it and there for enough freedom for info to be presented.

What I find suspicious is that the people who want the holocaust to be a hoax usually use this point more than any other factual point that proves a case.

In the last few years we have seen a Catholic Priest and the Iran President speak on mainstream TV denying the holocaust so its hardly kept under the mat.

There is also a clear agenda to make people feel sorry for the BNP and how the poor old chaps are so oppressed... along with the poor old Nazi's

And considering this is all in a country controlled by people who funded the Nazi's then to me THAT is suspicious.

How come they got Pirrepoint to string up over 200 germans other than the high ranking nazis then? After watching that film about him I have found it hard to find any info on who they were or what they were supposed to have done.

stelios
27-09-2011, 03:07 PM
N
What I find suspicious is that the people who want the holocaust to be a hoax usually use this point more than any other factual point that proves a case.

There is also a clear agenda to make people feel sorry for the BNP and how the poor old chaps are so oppressed... along with the poor old Nazi's

And considering this is all in a country controlled by people who funded the Nazi's then to me THAT is suspicious.
What i find suspicious is that no list of the alleged six million has ever been published.

What does the BNP have to do with anything?
Is that your attempt to slander WW2 researchers.

The NAZIs were funded by businessmen mainly in America and mainly Jews.
Like Paul Warburg and Prescot Bush.
Do you deny that?

johnfb
27-09-2011, 03:12 PM
What i find suspicious is that no list of the alleged six million has ever been published.

What does the BNP have to do with anything?
Is that your attempt to slander WW2 researchers.

The NAZIs were funded by businessmen mainly in America and mainly Jews.
Like Paul Warburg and Prescot Bush.
Do you deny that?




I dont think you ever answered this one .....


http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071628&postcount=1033


I did ask a number of times but can't seem to find your reply.



.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 03:14 PM
All I see is a lot of confused people that don't know what to believe anymore.

And it gets even worse, when you have these Neo-Nazis (who do know what they are doing) confusing you even further because they found out you are willing to believe any conspiracy, nomatter how absourd it is (except their own Nazi conspiracy; they are trustworthy, it's the rest of the world that lies, not the Nazis!!!)-; and they do it for just one reason: get you to join their ranks...

Good luck... you're going to love their Nazi NWO....

Suckers!!! :D

johnfb
27-09-2011, 03:18 PM
It is very suspicious that its illegal in some countries to question the official version. I really don't see how thats committing a crime at all.

Well, we are all on here...even German members, posting about it, denying and accepting the lines offered and not offered...so I guess anyone can still publically talk about it if they want...regardless of where they are posting from.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 03:28 PM
I dont think you ever answered this one .....


http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071628&postcount=1033


I did ask a number of times but can't seem to find your reply.



.

They never answer any question... as soon as you prove them wrong they jump to the "zulucaust".

I posed many questions... none of them were answered; and yet, there are still suckers who really believe the holocaust never happened. It's pathetic!!!

And if any of you think I'm saying this because I'm biased against the Nazis... I was the first to ask questions about the gas chambers, I was the first to ask question about the figures that didn't match, and I was even the first who thought Hitler was not really an anti-semite after reading a rare version of the Main Kampf without the anti-semitic comments... and I'm the first to oppose Zionism...

... but saying that the holocaust never happened is simply the biggest idiocy ever posted on this forum... not even these Nazi revisionists believe it's true (that's why they've been opposed for years to be called "deniers"; because they don't deny it, they are proud of what they did to the Jews and the rest)...

... they got YOU to deny it for them, and they got YOU to be laughed at for them... again... you are the suckers of the Neo-Nazis!!! :D

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 03:45 PM
flyermay

Why are you throwing an ancient universal symbol into the dustbin? Are you a symbol-hater? Maybe even a symbol-denier and an anti-symbolist?

flyermay
27-09-2011, 03:52 PM
This could be any of you in 6 months more... don't worry, they will give you a proper uniform as soon as you swear the oath. :D

http://www.openclipart.org/image/250px/svg_to_png/liftarn_Skinhead.png

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 04:09 PM
How come they got Pirrepoint to string up over 200 germans other than the high ranking nazis then? After watching that film about him I have found it hard to find any info on who they were or what they were supposed to have done.

Just because you make a law designed to (supposedly) defeat a certain group, it does not mean that they are the only ones who are held accountable to that law, if 200 Germans who were supposedly not pro Nazi was punished as a result it does not change the reason why the law was created..

Feel free to point out the revelations revealed in the countries where people were free to question it?

So far on this thread there has been very little other than speculative assumptions based on black spots that are there 70 od years after during a time where technology was not a speck on what it is today...

Lets not forget also the amount of evidence is dismissed on speculative reasons, in order to support the pro Nazi speculations.

I am happy to except that the pro Zionist movement (which the Nazi's were apart of) have sold the holocaust and hyped it to the extreme min order to cement their agenda... but there is no evidence that proves it did not happen... and lots of speculation to state it did not.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 04:18 PM
What i find suspicious is that no list of the alleged six million has ever been published. maybe there was not 6 million who died and they do not want to be exposed as hyping numbers?... Did the Nazi's even kill by name? .. where the slaves not numbered?


What does the BNP have to do with anything?
Is that your attempt to slander WW2 researchers.
you need to try and loosen your mind a little, the BNP has nothing to do with WW2, well done for acknowledging that fact...

Now take two steps back and consider it as a point of underlining how politics is marketed today, and maybe you will see why I underlined that a group considered as a fascist group and valued by many today, in the same society where many fools really think the Nazi's were on the ball.


The NAZIs were funded by businessmen mainly in America and mainly Jews.
Like Paul Warburg and Prescot Bush.
Do you deny that?


They were funded by Business men in the USA particularity those working under the umbrella of the Bush family's dealings. many were paid through British companies.

Hey maybe if the Nazi's had won we would not have had to up with people like this..

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_02/BarclaysLogoL_468x246.jpg

keep up your amazing truth campaign!! lol

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 04:18 PM
flyermay

Please answer my question: Why are you throwing an ancient universal symbol into the dustbin?

Btw - if you want to discuss National Socialism, take a look here: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1060233022#post1060233022

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 04:27 PM
flyermay

Please answer my question: Why are you throwing an ancient universal symbol into the dustbin?

Btw - if you want to discuss National Socialism, take a look here: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1060233022#post1060233022

if you are implying that the Nazi's using a positive symbol is evidence of their good intent...

then you are obviously very ignorant about the occult.

A symbol does not have intent by its self... the magician places the intent inside that symbol, the symbol is an energy that is there to be used.

Hitler did not sit there rubbing his hands together stating.. "he he he, I am so evil and i love it" ...

He thought he was right.... as did the Nazi's, as do all motivated and powerful groups... in fact they had many morals within there own agenda and took what they did very serious... this does not mean that they did not abused people, freedom, and nature... they simply wanted to control the it.

as they do today where they are in a much more powerful position.

While they laugh some many masses that are probably more stupid than they were back then.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 04:32 PM
Did you know Stalin's regime killed no one? It's all a conspiracy.

Some historians say he killed 50 million, other 60 million, other 31 million, and others just 9.5 milliion... I say it's bollocks: how come he killed up to 60 million, and we don't have the names or the lists published... I mean, we don't even have a range of figures that makes sense (9 to 60 million my ass; those are just random figures).

It's all a capitalist conspiracy against the communists; they have been using it as propaganda since the 60s... and look at all the historians: they are all capitalists, all paid to forward the agenda!!! :eek:

And where are the pictures... have you ever seen anyone killed by Stalin?

flyermay
27-09-2011, 04:41 PM
They were funded by Business men in the USA particularity those working under the umbrella of the Bush family's dealings. many were paid through British companies.

Hey maybe if the Nazi's had won we would not have had to up with people like this..

keep up your amazing truth campaign!! lol

The Nazis were funded by the Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, and the BIS (Bank for International Settlements). Companies like IBM or Bush's bank just dealt with them, even when it was against US law. The US government seized the Union Banking Corporation (where Bush was a director) under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

This is a well document and generally accepted as fact.

“The international German bankers have subsidized the present Government of Germany and they have also supplied every dollar of the money Adolph Hitler has used in his lavish campaign to build up a threat to the government of Bruening. When Bruening fails to obey the orders of the German International Bankers, Hitler is brought forth to scare the Germans into submission. Through the Federal Reserve Board… over $30 billions of American money… has been pumped into Germany… You have all heard of the spending that has taken place in Germany… modernistic dwellings, her great planetariums, her gymnasiums, her swimming pools, her fine public highways, her perfect factories. All this was done on our money. All this was given to Germany through the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board… has pumped so many billions of dollars into Germany that they dare not name the total.”
Louis T. McFadden (US House Representative from Pennsylvania)

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 04:51 PM
What a bunch of morons. All you idiots do is prove how ignorant you are.

Please - attempt to post some evidence of this Jewish fantasy, "the Holocaust", that you love so much.

Is it for example true that the terrible Nazis killed people for sleeping in their underwear?

http://www.cwporter.com/68mirth.jpg

More Holofun: http://www.cwporter.com/partone.htm

flyermay
27-09-2011, 05:01 PM
I want to see the evidences for Stalin killing anyone... this is the real holohoax!!!

Show me just 1 piece of conclusive evidence

flyermay
27-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Just 1 picture of a mass grave.... anything!!!

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 05:49 PM
Just 1 picture of a mass grave.... anything!!!

Why? What's at stake? We all know that nobody gives a damn about the millions of white Christians that the Soviet Jews exterminated. No money has been paid out, there are no museums, no Hollywood movies, no teary-eyed speeches, no law against denying the Sovietcaust, no special rights for white Christian people, no apology from the commie/Jew/Freemasons for their crimes.

If you however are interested in the subject of Soviet/Jew crimes against humanity and so on - I advice you to watch this documentary in its entirety:

Juri Lina - In the Shadow of Hermes, pt. 1 - YouTube

A lot of original footage, incl. film/video, of executions etc is presented in this documentary. You'll also find a lot of this in the documentary "The Bloody History of Communism."

But why this interest in the crimes of Jews and Freemasons? I thought you loved the poor, poor (Jews and Freemasons)....

Why not instead show us the proof that 6 million Jews were killed by evil blond Nazis because they slept in their underwear?

johnfb
27-09-2011, 05:53 PM
I want to see the evidences for Stalin killing anyone... this is the real holohoax!!!

Show me just 1 piece of conclusive evidence

Class, he wont like the tables being turned.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 05:57 PM
What a bunch of morons. All you idiots do is prove how ignorant you are.

Please - attempt to post some evidence of this Jewish fantasy, "the Holocaust", that you love so much.

Is it for example true that the terrible Nazis killed people for sleeping in their underwear?

http://www.cwporter.com/68mirth.jpg

More Holofun: http://www.cwporter.com/partone.htm

You have seen the evidence, you just choose to ignore it, imply people lie, things are faked (with no evidence your self to claim as such) so clearly you ask a trick question..

What you really mean is show me evidence I cant ignore... which maybe does not exist.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 06:00 PM
Just 1 picture of a mass grave.... anything!!!

another good point ...

But this kind of speculative research is only relevant when dealing with the Holocaust and Jews it seems...

Its quite fitting that many people living in a society upheld by the very people who funded the nazi's and sticking up for them...

bryan
27-09-2011, 06:13 PM
There is also a clear agenda to make people feel sorry for the BNP and how the poor old chaps are so oppressed... along with the poor old Nazi's

It's the old chicken and egg routine: the BNP are nazi's because they deny the holocaust and they deny the holocaust because they're nazi's.

picha
27-09-2011, 06:15 PM
The HC is at the root of why europeans bend over backwards for minorities - its supposed to show how un-NAZI they are IMO and how much they have 'changed'.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 06:17 PM
A lot of original footage, incl. film/video, of executions etc is presented in this documentary. You'll also find a lot of this in the documentary "The Bloody History of Communism."

I can also show you original footage, including film, of mass executions all over Nazi occupied territories. The crime of the victims: they were Jews.

Would you accept this as evidence of the holocaust?

You see, the problem with you people is that you think you can chose what constitutes evidences and what’s not (depending in the outcome you seek); but I'm afraid this is not how the real world works.

And I will watch that documentary, thanks... Unlike you, I have no interest in history fitting my ideology, but on my ideology fitting history.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 06:19 PM
In any case, what's they point on denying the holocaust, when not even revisionists deny it.... remember, according to you they are not "deniers", but "revisionists".

Or are you saying they have now moved the goalpost from "revision" to "denial"?

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 08:33 PM
Do we affirm or deny that the Nazis killed people for sleeping in their underwear?

johnfb
27-09-2011, 08:36 PM
Do we affirm or deny that the Nazis killed people for sleeping in their underwear?

Ohh for fuck sake !


http://looneytunes09.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/kill_me_now.jpg

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 08:45 PM
Now, let's forget about the Nazis killing people for sleeping in their underwear. And instead focus on the Nazis killing people for wearing dirty underwear - which is far worse.

http://www.cwporter.com/69mirth.jpg

But should we affirm it or deny it? I'm still not sure.

stelios
27-09-2011, 09:04 PM
I dont think you ever answered this one .....

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071628&postcount=1033

I did ask a number of times but can't seem to find your reply.

Sorry mate i must have missed the question.
The point i made was that those jewish women who all gave birth to healthy babies were all held in a camp.
Clearly they were not being exterminated and clearly there was no general policy of extermination.
Or else why would they have been allowed to give birth.
Dont you Holocaust™ promoters see the anomaly?
After all it is your claims that jewish babies were tossed into the air and shot being used for target practice by the NAZIs.

Many people died as a result of the war and famine and diseases but that is a far cry from there being a policy of extermination

ps:
I call them internment camps because there is no evidence they were anything else.
Although there were a number of forced labour camps run by people like Werhner Von Braun who used Jewish slave labour. Von Braun used the jewish slave labour to build V1 and V2 rockets which were used to attack Britain and killed many people yet after the war was handed a plum gig by the USA along with hundred of his fellow NAZIs. Despite the proven fact that many Jewish slave workers were shot under orders by Von Braun.

http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/bundes1.jpg

Dont you see the contradictions in your claims?
Here is a proven NAZI war criminal riding with President Kennedy

http://www.geschichteinchronologie.ch/atmosphaerenfahrt/11_Disney-Braun-d/1962-09-11-John-F-Kennedy-m-Wernher-v-Braun-in-offener-Limousine.jpg

johnfb
27-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Sorry mate i must have missed the question.
The point i made was that those jewish women who all gave birth to healthy babies were all held in a camp.
Clearly they were not being exterminated and clearly there was no general policy of extermination.
Or else why would they have been allowed to give birth.
Dont you Holocaust™ promoters see the anomaly?
After all it is your claims that jewish babies were tossed into the air and shot being used for target practice by the NAZIs.

Many people died as a result of the war and famine and diseases but that is a far cry from there being a policy of extermination

ps:
I call them internment camps because there is no evidence they were anything else.
Although there were a number of forced labour camps run by people like Werhner Von Braun who used Jewish slave labour. Von Braun used the jewish slave labour to build V1 and V2 rockets which were used to attack Britain and killed many people yet after the war was handed a plum gig by the USA along with hundred of his fellow NAZIs. Despite the proven fact that many Jewish slave workers were shot under orders by Von Braun.





Dont remember ever saying that.



Anyway, my point was that you said one thing but the article says something esle (unless I am mistaken) and it appeared that you misrepresented what was said. Its highlighted in red....(unless I am mistaken)

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071628&postcount=1033

flyermay
27-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Ohh for fuck sake !


http://looneytunes09.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/kill_me_now.jpg

Me too... with underwear, please :D

flyermay
27-09-2011, 09:32 PM
No "policy for extermination"... is this a joke?

Do you even realise the fucking idiots filmend the mass executions of Jews all over Eastern Europe?

They went town by town, put a star on the arm of every jew that was not sent to a concentration camp, made them dig a trench, and shot them on the head... in mass!!!! They filmed it themselves for fuck sake; they were proud of carrying out the Führer's plan to exterminate the Jews (as many retarded would again today)!!!

There are thousand of evidences of the holocaust; including, but not limited to:
Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos (who helped load bodies from the gas chambers into the crematoria in exchange for a chance of survival), SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.

Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.

The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.

Inferential evidence—population demographics, and reconstructed from the pre–World War II era.

I'm not sure if you realise it; but if you really believe there was no holocaust... you are a moron... literally.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 09:37 PM
Wait a second... are you having a laugh at us with this "there was no holocaust"? :o

johnfb
27-09-2011, 09:40 PM
Wait a second... are you having a laugh at us with this "there was no holocaust"? :o

It's like




http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/w/wtf_star_trek-12873.jpg

rodin
27-09-2011, 09:44 PM
You have seen the evidence, you just choose to ignore it, imply people lie, things are faked (with no evidence your self to claim as such) so clearly you ask a trick question..

What you really mean is show me evidence I cant ignore... which maybe does not exist.

'The people who were caught sleeping with their underpants on were shot....'

Does that sound very likely?

To all the Holocaust promoters - where are the non Jewish Holocaust survivors? There were millions of Jewish ones - apparently - despite them all being killed.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 09:54 PM
'The people who were caught sleeping with their underpants on were shot....'

Does that sound very likely?

To all the Holocaust promoters - where are the non Jewish Holocaust survivors? There were millions of Jewish ones - apparently - despite them all being killed.

Hmmm... very unlikely... let me think: in one hand we have the very unlikely case of "the underpants", and in the other hand we have:
Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.

Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.

The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.

Inferential evidence—population demographics, and reconstructed from the pre–World War II era.

Errrr... I think I see what you mean... yes, it´s a hoax!!!!!

...

Are you having a laugh? :D

flyermay
27-09-2011, 10:03 PM
Tell me Rodin: everyone here knew for years you hate the jews; but, do you hate the Jews because the holocaust is a hoax, or is the holocaust a hoax because you hate the Jews?

And this goes for the rest of you "Jew-haters": when your hate starts fuelling your delusions... I think it would be a good time for you to see a doctor (at least let your family know what's going on).

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 10:30 PM
"Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate -healthy virile hate- for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German."- ---Elie Wiesel, Nobel Prize winner and "chief witness" to the Holocaust.

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/germany-must-perish.gif

There's been a massive anti-German hate campaign going on for the last 80 years or so. And we who criticize the Jews are the big haters?

http://cdn02.cdn.gofugyourself.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/schindlers-list-ralph-fiennes.jpg

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/beyond_the_multiplex/feature/2008/04/11/stalags/story.jpg

I get the logic: anyone standing up for the people that have been massacred, raped, tortured, ridiculed and demonized by the Jews and their lackeys for so long - they must be "haters."

Look at them terrible Nazis. Aren't you glad they were raped and murdered by the Inglorious Basterds?
http://dc124.4shared.com/img/5mds-z7x/s7/Mass_rape_of_German_women_by_S.jpg

Look at them haters:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWdresden2.JPG

flyermay
27-09-2011, 10:41 PM
Can't you see you are openly, not only admitting your hate for the Jews, but also justifying it?

Why would I (or anyone else with any common sense) believe anything you say about your object of hate?

You are just letting your hate do the thinking for you... you're never going to find the truth about anything; your hate will always be in the way.

I feel sorry for you... :(

mercy
27-09-2011, 10:42 PM
You believers have a weird way of reasoning..

When someone raise doubts about 6000000 jews gassed and killed,you guys are angrily parading off pictures from 2WW that shows how ugly war can be..But it seems you guys fail to understand that even if you can actually legitimize that the dead or suffering people in even just some of these pictures or graves are jews only,that is still no argument for anything else than that some psykopats during the war (like in any other inhuman war) attacked and killed innocent defenceless groups of civilians..

Nobody is denying that ALL you photos and super8 clips are the heartwrenching ugly evidence for how we shouldnt treat our fellow humanbeings..And noone is suggesting the photos or clips being fakes..

We just dont buy it as evidence for a conspiracy theory about 6000000
exterminated jews..


And I can understand how the missing papertrail,in the head of a firm believer HAVE to become a succesfull nazi undertaking in the last chaotic times of a lost war,to somehow get control with all incriminating documents and make them vanish..

But I cant understand how you guys can fail to realize how that would be impossible..When million of nazis know that they lost the war and risk being held personable accountable for their own actions and efforts against jews,they need proof they acted according to orders..At this point in time, there would have had surfaced enough documents to make this whole thread and discussion totally irrelevant..

And whats with all the namecalling?

We are labelled Nazis for questioning Holocaust,with the clear undenilable motives that we hate jews and are trying to sweep the truth under the carpet...Again you guys fail to realize the core of the discussion..IF there WERE and never have been, no plan to exterminate the jewish people and IF 6000000 millions jews actually didnt get systematically gassed and killed,
millions of evil inhumane jewhating nazis would be something that ONLY existed in the minds of paranoid Holocaust conspiracy theory believers..Quite a predicament,right?

And anyway..only an idiot would insist that everybody defending the official story must be a lying jew defending what he knew to be a hoax..

Its also a bit unfair..People have a tendency to resolve to namecalling when they feel pressured in a discussion..

So when believers shout "Evil Nazis",we know its frustrations in the heat of argument..But when disbelievers shout "Stupid jews" it is used as an argument for the hate against jews....

Just saying..a bit weird with all this weird reasoning...

stelios
27-09-2011, 10:44 PM
Can't you see you are openly, not only admitting your hate for the Jews, but also justifying it?(
Cant you see you are not doing real Jews any favours by perpetuating a lie?

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 10:46 PM
mercy

Most people are neither Nazis nor Jews. They simply believe what everybody else believes:

The Earth is round
water is wet
sand is dry
Hitler killed 6 million Jews.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Cant you see you are not doing real Jews any favours by perpetuating a lie?

I'm not here to do favours to anyone... and I've proven more than enough who is trying to push a lie here.

You really want to prove the holocaust never happend? Then start refuting every single evidence that proves beyond a doubt it it.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 10:53 PM
mercy

Most people are neither Nazis nor Jews. They simply believe what everybody else believes:

The Earth is round
water is wet
sand is dry
Hitler killed 6 million Jews.

Yes, but you told us already you are a Neo-Nazi, and that you hate the Jews... or are you going back on that too.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 10:55 PM
Cant you see you are not doing real Jews any favours by perpetuating a lie?

maybe the reason he does not see this is that its not a lie, its just that people like you are desperate to think it is and will cling to any shit nugget that can get their hands on to try and convince them selves and others it the truth...

And as a result the real Jews who did suffer from the agenda of removing them from the ever expanding Nazi culture are most defiantly not getting any favours from you.

bjornyvan
27-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Yes, but you told us already you are a Neo-Nazi, and that you hate the Jews... or are you going back on that too.

Actually... I'm a Neo-Neo-Nazi and I love Jews. Deeply. I don't want them to rule the world, however.

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 11:01 PM
mercy

Most people are neither Nazis nor Jews. They simply believe what everybody else believes:

The Earth is round
water is wet
sand is dry
Hitler killed 6 million Jews.

you dont just have to prove that Hitler did not kill 6 million Jews or at least underline that there is not sufficient evidence that this number was correct in order to prove the holocaust was a hoax though... you deniers seem to have a very narrow outlook on the whole of WW2 ....

if numbers are wrong then it proves it all a lie... eerrr no not at all.

In fact there could be a number of instances where we could discover mistruths about it, but it does not prove it never happened and the huge pile of facts which very much underline it did happen far out weigh the crap you guys so passionately force into forums.

As I have said, your most useful fact is that denial was made illegal in some countries... but very little facts in the way of tangible evidence it never happened and all the info is fake and staged..

thirdwave
27-09-2011, 11:03 PM
Actually... I'm a Neo-Neo-Nazi and I love Jews. Deeply. I don't want them to rule the world, however.

Well, if you are right in you accusations that what they are doing, then they have obviously been doing it, are capable of doing it, and its you guys who are really saying there are the superior group on this planet, by your own claims.

stelios
27-09-2011, 11:10 PM
I'm not here to do favours to anyone... and I've proven more than enough who is trying to push a lie here.

You really want to prove the holocaust never happend? Then start refuting every single evidence that proves beyond a doubt it it.
How about you kicking off with the list of names of the Six Million Jews?

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:11 PM
Well, if you are right in you accusations that what they are doing, then they have obviously been doing it, are capable of doing it, and its you guys who are really saying there are the superior group on this planet, by your own claims.

Good point, perhaps the Nazis wanted to get rid of them because they realised the Jews were the real master race. :D

I mean, they didn't even had their own land until 60 years ago, and they already rule the world... wow, these Jews are fricking genious!!! :eek:

stelios
27-09-2011, 11:13 PM
maybe the reason he does not see this is that its not a lie, its just that people like you are desperate to think it is and will cling to any shit nugget that can get their hands on to try and convince them selves and others it the truth....
How about you provide us with the little brown nugget we are waiting for.
The list of names of the Six Million jews?

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:15 PM
How about you kicking off with the list of names of the Six Million Jews?

How about you get the list of the 60,000,000 names for Stalin's victims; otherwise it's a proof he killed no one?... wait, was it 60 million, or 9 million.... omg, it's a hoax!!!! :D

Do you realise how silly it is to say "no names = no holocaust"? What makes you think you can ignore every other evidence? In what planet the absence evidence is evidences of absence.

I told you already: the morons took films of the executions of Jews all over Easter Europe; they wrote about extermination them; they built the fricking extermination camps; there are thousands of witnesses, including Nazi guards, officers and high ranking officials... what the hell is so difficult to understand?

stelios
27-09-2011, 11:18 PM
Good point, perhaps the Nazis wanted to get rid of them because they realised the Jews were the real master race. :D

I mean, they didn't even had their own land until 60 years ago, and they already rule the world... wow, these Jews are fricking genious!!! :eek:
As they say behind every Nazi is an AshkeNazi.

This is the problem with you chaps, you really believe in this Jews being the master race stuff.
Do you realise that the only people in human history who have claimed themselves to be the master race are the Jews.
No wonder there are so many Nazis in Israel today.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/israels-neonazis-stoke-debate-on-jewishness/2007/09/10/1189276633737.html

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/09/10/israeli_wideweb__470x302,0.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_n7RltmTdk-g/Rwf8eD-t1HI/AAAAAAAABt8/U8MERWpzq3c/s320/Israeli+neo-Nazi.jpg

And who do you think are the victims of these Israeli Nazis?
Jews.


Israeli neo-nazis - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=myttW1lfEJs

stelios
27-09-2011, 11:25 PM
How about you get the list of the 60,000,000 names for Stalin's victims; otherwise it's a proof he killed no one?... wait, was it 60 million, or 9 million.... omg, it's a hoax!!!! :D

Do you realise how silly it is to say "no names = no holocaust"? What makes you think you can ignore every other evidence? In what planet the absence evidence is evidences of absence.
Buddy, did you not understand that the burden of proof is simple.
You claim that six million jews were killed by the Nazis in Gas Chambers yet you dont have a list of names of these apparant murder victims

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:26 PM
Refute it all, and I give you my word I will circle the earth preaching holocaust denial... forever!!!

Start with these:
Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.

Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.

The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.

Inferential evidence—population demographics, and reconstructed from the pre–World War II era.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:29 PM
Buddy, did you not understand that the burden of proof is simple.
You claim that six million jews were killed by the Nazis in Gas Chambers yet you dont have a list of names of these apparant murder victims

6 million jews?

Gas chambers?

What are you talking about?

I think you are confusing threads... here we are discussing holocaust denial, not revisionism.

stelios
27-09-2011, 11:33 PM
If you want to talk about how many Jews Stalin killed why dont you start a pro Stalin thread.
This one is about the Holocaust™
So how about the list of names i assume you tried to google it?
You cant find it because it doesnt exist.
The reason is simple, there wasnt even six million Jews in the first place.

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:38 PM
I think many of you need to read the title of the thread, and the question... and of course, the content of the posts... before you even say anything.

This is not about the number of jews; it's not about if all where jews or not; it's not about how the zionists benefited; it's not about the conflict between Israel and Palestine; it's not about gas chambers; it's not about the jews rulling the world... and it's definitely not about the zulucaust...

It's very simple... was there a holocaust or not?

No? prove it... refute every single evidence pointing towards a holocaust, and once you've done that (you left no evidences pointing towards a holocaust) add you own evidences or reasoning for it never happening.

Can you do that? ... No?... Then what the fuck are you discussing about?

You're not going to erase it out of history by denying it... perhaps out of your own heads (but who cares?)

flyermay
27-09-2011, 11:53 PM
If you want to talk about how many Jews Stalin killed why dont you start a pro Stalin thread.
This one is about the Holocaust™
So how about the list of names i assume you tried to google it?
You cant find it because it doesnt exist.
The reason is simple, there wasnt even six million Jews in the first place.

Another empty statement... do you really believe that saying "there wasn't even six million Jews in the first place" has any value?

Prove it... refute the census estimate for Nazi occupied territories before WWII, which is between 8 and 10 million Jews; and refute the number of victims in the camps recorded with the Dehomag computers (the German IBM subsidiary used by the Nazis).

Is this how you guys reached the conclusion that there was no holocaust... adding together empty statements like this one?... Jesus, you can prove anything you want with such academic standards (is this what Irving does? :D).

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 12:05 AM
You can't prove a negative.

Many Hololovers are unfortunately incapable of understanding this simple fact.

C'mon flyermay: Prove that the giant space tomato Bob, who lives on the dark side of the Moon, did not exterminate 8 million blacks some time between 1950 and 1955.

Probably pointless. You're too brainwashed to get it.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:23 AM
You can't prove a negative.

Many Hololovers are unfortunately incapable of understanding this simple fact.

C'mon flyermay: Prove that the giant space tomato Bob, who lives on the dark side of the Moon, did not exterminate 8 million blacks some time between 1950 and 1955.

Probably pointless. You're too brainwashed to get it.

I'll lower the price for you... you won't need to prove it; just refute every evidence pointing towards the holocaust.

If you do, and as I promised, I will circle the earth preaching holocaust denial... forever!

Start with these:
Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.

Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.

The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.

Inferential evidence—population demographics, and reconstructed from the pre–World War II era.

And it's not that I'm being picky by asking you to refute every single evidence; is that while just 1 evidence still stand, I simply won't be able to lie to myself (and I know you guys can... I can't; I need all evidences refuted).

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:32 AM
Look! another one who just lied to himself about the thousands of evidences that are still unrefuted, and who just voted "No"... lol :D

You are now 97 who can simply ignore all evidences and convince themselves of whatever they like... wow, hate has a lot of power!!!

Maybe Icke got it wrong, and it's: "hate is the only truth, all other evidences are illusion". :eek:

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 12:37 AM
http://www.cwporter.com/72mirth.jpg

Evidence...?

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:48 AM
Evidence...?

Well, for now I'll settle for the list I gave you. But when you finish, and if you like, you can also refute the little anecdotes from this book of yours about how depraved can hate make you.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:59 AM
This is getting really boring...

Is anyone ever going to refute any evidence; or are you going to continue forever with "the holocaust never happened because I hate the jews... and I said so"?

Where's that Aryan pride? :D

bendoon
28-09-2011, 01:08 AM
Perhaps if you posted some evidence people could refute it bit by bit.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 01:15 AM
Oh no, did they also got you into holocaust denial?... just curious. :)

Perhaps if you posted some evidence people could refute it bit by bit.

What do you mean; you want me to post pictures, testimonies, films, documents, etc?

Ok, who is responsible for the death of these people in Bergen-Belsen... and how does it mean: "the holocaust never happened"?

http://vho.org/Intro/Corpses.jpg

bendoon
28-09-2011, 01:29 AM
Oh no, did they also got you into holocaust denial?... just curious. :)



What do you mean; you want me to post pictures, testimonies, films, documents, etc?

Ok, who is responsible for the death of these people in Bergen-Belsen... and how does it mean: "the holocaust never happened"?

Belsen was a POW war camp and according to mainstream sources around 50000 Russian POW's died there so it is not relevant to the holocaust.

stelios
28-09-2011, 02:07 AM
Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors.
You mean reliable eye witneses like Irene Zisblatt?
The woman who as an eight year child ate 4 diamonds and shat them out every day and ate them again.
The woman who survived the gas chamber.
Are you sure you want to rely so heavily on eye witness accounts and dont want to actually present any real evidence like the names of the six million jews who were killed?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-ghS8/S60mrW050LI/AAAAAAAAFCQ/4oTykdR3Rag/s1600/Irene-Zisblatt-Holohoax.jpg

rikk
28-09-2011, 03:11 AM
Oh no, did they also got you into holocaust denial?... just curious. :)



What do you mean; you want me to post pictures, testimonies, films, documents, etc?

Ok, who is responsible for the death of these people in Bergen-Belsen... and how does it mean: "the holocaust never happened"?

http://vho.org/Intro/Corpses.jpg

Here is a photograph of victims of the typhus epidemic in a mass grave on the concentration camp in Bergen-Belsen, taken by the British Army:

This photo is typical of a large number of such photos often shown on TV Holocaust documentaries either without commentary or else with allegations that the dead are victims of the Holocaust. In fact, it is a photograph of victims of an epidemic which occurred at war's end. The cause of death is evident from the condition of the corpses. If they had been gassed they would not be emaciated and if they had died of starvation they would have swollen joints and stomachs. Any medical professional will see at first glance that these people died of typhus.

All photographs of heaps of corpses were taken in Western camps around the end of the war, such as Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, and Buchenwald, where historians now agree no mass murders took place. Significantly, there are no such photographs taken at the camps in which mass murder is alleged to have occurred (Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno, Majdanek.) These eastern camps were all in areas which came under Soviet control at war's end. It is very telling that the Soviets released no pictures of mass graves or heaps of corpses and allowed no journalists, medical professionals, or other experts to examine the camps. Since the end of the 1980s, Revisionists have been investigating these sites for evidence of mass murder, but the officials have obstructed their efforts by all possible means.

In the absence of authentic photographs documenting mass murder, it frequently happens that photographs of those who died in the Western camps at war's end of malnutrition and typhus are presented as evidence of deliberate mass murder. To be sure, the hellish conditions in the Western camps at war's end convinced many Allied observers that mass murder had taken place, as initial reports indicate. In reality, these conditions resulted from a situation for which the German government was not solely responsible. Toward the end of the war, Himmler illogically ordered the evacuation of the eastern camps as the Red Army approached, which led to hopeless overcrowding in the western camps. By that time, Allied bombing had completely destroyed the German infrastructure, making it impossible to supply the camps with food, medicines, and sanitation supplies. Misunderstandings about the causes of the massive die-off continue to this day, especially among Americans.

The respected leftist historian Norbert Frei has given the following reason for misinterpretation, (from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte 35 (1987) page 400):
"The shock of these discoveries [of mountains of corpses] often led to false conclusions which turned out to be enduring."

There is no denying that a government which imprisons people in camps is responsible for them and so the unjustly imprisoned were therefore victims of the Third Reich, even if they died "only" of disease. However, one should not overlook the fact that by the war's end, mountains of corpses had become commonplace throughout Germany. In German cities there were 600,000 victims of Allied terror bombings. Millions more died of starvation and disease, which continued rampant through 1949. In Eastern Europe some two million Germans were murdered by Serbs, Czechs, Poles, and Russians in the course of history's bloodiest ethnic cleansing. In the POW camps of the western Allies, a million young German men died and millions more vegetated. Hundreds of thousands more were shipped to the labor camps of the Soviet GULag never to be seen again. But the media show only one variety of corpse piles, those in the concentration camps. We should all ask ourselves why this is so. (For more on the misinterpretation of conditions in German camps at war's end see: (1) (2)).

Should the dignity and respect, which we owe the victims of atrocities, depend on their nationality?

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 03:30 AM
What do you mean; you want me to post pictures, testimonies, films, documents, etc?

Please do.


Ok, who is responsible for the death of these people in Bergen-Belsen...
http://vho.org/Intro/Corpses.jpg

As far as I know typhus killed these people. But who was responsible for the spread of typhus? That may be harder to answer. Or maybe not so hard. I'll give you two alternatives:

A. The Germans who used tons of Zyklon B to keep the camps clean.

B. The Allies that bombed the roads and railways as well as the factory which made the typhus vaccine.

As you may or may not be aware of - the camps were situated in conjunction with the railroad system. All the food, medicine, disinfectant (=Zyklon B) and other materials were brought to the camps by train. So when the "dear" Allies bombed the railroads an unfortunate side-effect was that new provisions could not reach the camps. At least not by train. It is logical to think that this sad situation could have been a cause, perhaps the major cause, for the violent spreading of typhus and other diseases in several camps in the latter half of 1944 and beginning of 1945.

Those skinny bodies buried in Bergen-Belsen and later dug up by the Brits and photographed - they were not a mystery. Typhus victims.

Wikipedia writes: "Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[6]"

Wikipedia have a problem though: Perhaps they'd like to show a photograph of these typhus victims, but you see - they've already used that photo for their "Holocaust" article. You gotta love it.

Epidemic typhus: Epidemic typhus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Holocaust": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

At least a thousand autopsies were carried out on such corpses (Dachau). It was never established that these were victims of poison gas of any kind. It's common sense too: When a person is so incredibly skinny he/she is too weak to walk into any gas chamber. And there's no need for any gassing anyway - as he/she is already in the process of dying.

Yep, flyermay. Please post more of your fantastic Holoevidence. Maybe the confession of Kurt Gerstein - the dude that gassed 25 million Jews?

Kurt Gerstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Kurt_Gerstein.jpg

"Ja, ja. I gassed 25 million. But I ate breakfast first."

---------------

Oh, hi rikk!
Now I saw your post. I see you addressed much the same thing that I did. :)

rodin
28-09-2011, 10:06 AM
It is obvious now the Holocaust was faked by commie Jews, for a multitude of benefits, not least to cover up their own genocides.

The big question still remaining for me is - how can such a lie be promulgated without the acquiescence of Jews at large? You'd think they would know what really happened to their families.

johnfb
28-09-2011, 10:11 AM
It is obvious now the Holocaust was faked by commie Jews, for a multitude of benefits, not least to cover up their own genocides.

The big question still remaining for me is - how can such a lie be promulgated without the acquiescence of Jews at large? You'd think they would know what really happened to their families.

Maybe YOU could tell them

thirdwave
28-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Here is a photograph of victims of the typhus epidemic in a mass grave on the concentration camp in Bergen-Belsen, taken by the British Army:

How strange

According to many deniers they used big chambers that were constantly used to delouse the people in these camps...

how odd such a vast amount died anyway.

I would say that was one powerful swarm of typhus!

thirdwave
28-09-2011, 10:55 AM
It is obvious now the Holocaust was faked by commie Jews, for a multitude of benefits, not least to cover up their own genocides.

Only to those who so desperately want that to be the case.

mercy
28-09-2011, 11:26 AM
if numbers are wrong then it proves it all a lie... eerrr no not at all.



WTF..again this weird reasoning..

That the numbers are wrong dont necesserally proves it to be a lie..
But our argument is that it is definately dont prove it right...

And thats the hurdle..

You guys insist on the official story being the undenieable truth..
We just point out that your numbers dont add up..

We dont have to prove its a lie...Its you guys who need to show that it IS the truth..

And mostly you guys just resolve to critizise us for being stupid or evil nazis ,for showing where you numbers and facts dont add up..

thirdwave
28-09-2011, 12:06 PM
WTF..again this weird reasoning..

lol coming from a holocaust denier that's funny...

That the numbers are wrong dont necesserally proves it to be a lie..
But our argument is that it is definately dont prove it right...

what a load of tosh, lets not pretend you guys are just trying to get the info right, because you clearly dismiss valid info that does not suit your cause...

with your reasoning the fact that numbers might be wrong or in fact that some other info might have been hyped, then this is evidence that it maybe did not happen...

when you are presented with facts that show otherwise then you desperately seek ways of eliminating them to assure your self it did not happen.

9/11 was lies and loads of dis info... does not mean it did not happen though!


You guys insist on the official story being the undenieable truth..
We just point out that your numbers dont add up..

more rubbish, you rely on a man who will not question anything so then you can snow ball them all with a load of bullshit as well...

you dont have to belive that the offical story is the undeniable truth to recognize the nazi agenda and to believe that the events did take place...

Its more a case of you being brainwashed with propaganda based on the fact that the people who funded and executed such crimes are not honest and have and always have had a far deeper agenda..

you guys always make out your so awake when its like watching people with a paper bag over their head trying to take people by the hand!


We dont have to prove its a lie...Its you guys who need to show that it IS the truth.. Yes you do have to prove its a lie because there is enough evidence to state it did happen and you choose to view that as a lie.... there for you need to prove it as such.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Belsen was a POW war camp and according to mainstream sources around 50000 Russian POW's died there so it is not relevant to the holocaust.

Oh, I see, the OP meant the "Jew holocaust", not the "real holocaust"...

... Jesus Christ, this is simply childish.

You mean reliable eye witneses like Irene Zisblatt?
The woman who as an eight year child ate 4 diamonds and shat them out every day and ate them again.
The woman who survived the gas chamber.
Are you sure you want to rely so heavily on eye witness accounts and dont want to actually present any real evidence like the names of the six million jews who were killed?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-ghS8/S60mrW050LI/AAAAAAAAFCQ/4oTykdR3Rag/s1600/Irene-Zisblatt-Holohoax.jpg

Wow, I'm impressed... to totally stablished that a women that ate diamonds could not be a survivor of the holocaust.

I surrender... I'm no match for your logic.

...

What about the other thousands of testimonies, including, but not limited to: SS Guards, officers, high ranking officials, locals, alies, non-jew survivors, jew survivors... do they all eat diamonds?

flyermay
28-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Here is a photograph of victims of the typhus epidemic in a mass grave on the concentration camp in Bergen-Belsen, taken by the British Army:

This photo is typical of a large number of such photos often shown on TV Holocaust documentaries either without commentary or else with allegations that the dead are victims of the Holocaust. In fact, it is a photograph of victims of an epidemic which occurred at war's end. The cause of death is evident from the condition of the corpses. If they had been gassed they would not be emaciated and if they had died of starvation they would have swollen joints and stomachs. Any medical professional will see at first glance that these people died of typhus.

All photographs of heaps of corpses were taken in Western camps around the end of the war, such as Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, and Buchenwald, where historians now agree no mass murders took place. Significantly, there are no such photographs taken at the camps in which mass murder is alleged to have occurred (Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno, Majdanek.) These eastern camps were all in areas which came under Soviet control at war's end. It is very telling that the Soviets released no pictures of mass graves or heaps of corpses and allowed no journalists, medical professionals, or other experts to examine the camps. Since the end of the 1980s, Revisionists have been investigating these sites for evidence of mass murder, but the officials have obstructed their efforts by all possible means.

In the absence of authentic photographs documenting mass murder, it frequently happens that photographs of those who died in the Western camps at war's end of malnutrition and typhus are presented as evidence of deliberate mass murder. To be sure, the hellish conditions in the Western camps at war's end convinced many Allied observers that mass murder had taken place, as initial reports indicate. In reality, these conditions resulted from a situation for which the German government was not solely responsible. Toward the end of the war, Himmler illogically ordered the evacuation of the eastern camps as the Red Army approached, which led to hopeless overcrowding in the western camps. By that time, Allied bombing had completely destroyed the German infrastructure, making it impossible to supply the camps with food, medicines, and sanitation supplies. Misunderstandings about the causes of the massive die-off continue to this day, especially among Americans.

The respected leftist historian Norbert Frei has given the following reason for misinterpretation, (from Vierteljahrshefte für Zeitgeschichte 35 (1987) page 400):
"The shock of these discoveries [of mountains of corpses] often led to false conclusions which turned out to be enduring."

There is no denying that a government which imprisons people in camps is responsible for them and so the unjustly imprisoned were therefore victims of the Third Reich, even if they died "only" of disease. However, one should not overlook the fact that by the war's end, mountains of corpses had become commonplace throughout Germany. In German cities there were 600,000 victims of Allied terror bombings. Millions more died of starvation and disease, which continued rampant through 1949. In Eastern Europe some two million Germans were murdered by Serbs, Czechs, Poles, and Russians in the course of history's bloodiest ethnic cleansing. In the POW camps of the western Allies, a million young German men died and millions more vegetated. Hundreds of thousands more were shipped to the labor camps of the Soviet GULag never to be seen again. But the media show only one variety of corpse piles, those in the concentration camps. We should all ask ourselves why this is so. (For more on the misinterpretation of conditions in German camps at war's end see: (1) (2)).

Should the dignity and respect, which we owe the victims of atrocities, depend on their nationality?

Please do.



As far as I know typhus killed these people. But who was responsible for the spread of typhus? That may be harder to answer. Or maybe not so hard. I'll give you two alternatives:

A. The Germans who used tons of Zyklon B to keep the camps clean.

B. The Allies that bombed the roads and railways as well as the factory which made the typhus vaccine.

As you may or may not be aware of - the camps were situated in conjunction with the railroad system. All the food, medicine, disinfectant (=Zyklon B) and other materials were brought to the camps by train. So when the "dear" Allies bombed the railroads an unfortunate side-effect was that new provisions could not reach the camps. At least not by train. It is logical to think that this sad situation could have been a cause, perhaps the major cause, for the violent spreading of typhus and other diseases in several camps in the latter half of 1944 and beginning of 1945.

Those skinny bodies buried in Bergen-Belsen and later dug up by the Brits and photographed - they were not a mystery. Typhus victims.

Wikipedia writes: "Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[6]"

Wikipedia have a problem though: Perhaps they'd like to show a photograph of these typhus victims, but you see - they've already used that photo for their "Holocaust" article. You gotta love it.

Epidemic typhus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemic_typhus
"Holocaust": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

At least a thousand autopsies were carried out on such corpses (Dachau). It was never established that these were victims of poison gas of any kind. It's common sense too: When a person is so incredibly skinny he/she is too weak to walk into any gas chamber. And there's no need for any gassing anyway - as he/she is already in the process of dying.

Yep, flyermay. Please post more of your fantastic Holoevidence. Maybe the confession of Kurt Gerstein - the dude that gassed 25 million Jews?

"Ja, ja. I gassed 25 million. But I ate breakfast first."

---------------

Oh, hi rikk!
Now I saw your post. I see you addressed much the same thing that I did. :)


First: you're going to need to prove that all that people died of typhus (I'm sorry, if I took the word of holocaust deniers, I would probably end up as confused as them). Just because a Neo-Nazi wrote a book saying there were no mass executions, doesn't make it true... even when he is telling you what you want to hear.

Second: I never even asked how that people died, or whether or not they are Jews; but, who is responsible for their deaths, and how does that mean "the holocaust never happened".

And Third: There are pictures and film footage of mass executions (of Jews) all over Easter Europe... THE FUCKING NAZIS TOOK THEM THENSELVES!!!

flyermay
28-09-2011, 01:06 PM
It is obvious now the Holocaust was faked by commie Jews, for a multitude of benefits, not least to cover up their own genocides.

The big question still remaining for me is - how can such a lie be promulgated without the acquiescence of Jews at large? You'd think they would know what really happened to their families.

No one expected you to change your mind... you are beyond hope my friend... :D

flyermay
28-09-2011, 01:08 PM
WTF..again this weird reasoning..

That the numbers are wrong dont necesserally proves it to be a lie..
But our argument is that it is definately dont prove it right...

And thats the hurdle..

You guys insist on the official story being the undenieable truth..
We just point out that your numbers dont add up..

We dont have to prove its a lie...Its you guys who need to show that it IS the truth..

And mostly you guys just resolve to critizise us for being stupid or evil nazis ,for showing where you numbers and facts dont add up..

I'm with you... that's why I'm so sure Stalin killed no one. 9 million to 60 million... come on!!! :rolleyes:

mercy
28-09-2011, 01:23 PM
I'm with you... that's why I'm so sure Stalin killed no one. 9 million to 60 million... come on!!! :rolleyes:

Again..weird reasoning..

Claiming another official Truth maybe not adds up to the numbers,really dont make your own case that much more believable..

But hey...Atleast you make the point that we as mankind shouldnt accept official storys without insisting on believable proof and reason..

flyermay
28-09-2011, 01:32 PM
lol coming from a holocaust denier that's funny...

what a load of tosh, lets not pretend you guys are just trying to get the info right, because you clearly dismiss valid info that does not suit your cause...

with your reasoning the fact that numbers might be wrong or in fact that some other info might have been hyped, then this is evidence that it maybe did not happen...

when you are presented with facts that show otherwise then you desperately seek ways of eliminating them to assure your self it did not happen.

9/11 was lies and loads of dis info... does not mean it did not happen though!

more rubbish, you rely on a man who will not question anything so then you can snow ball them all with a load of bullshit as well...

you dont have to belive that the offical story is the undeniable truth to recognize the nazi agenda and to believe that the events did take place...

Its more a case of you being brainwashed with propaganda based on the fact that the people who funded and executed such crimes are not honest and have and always have had a far deeper agenda..

you guys always make out your so awake when its like watching people with a paper bag over their head trying to take people by the hand!

Yes you do have to prove its a lie because there is enough evidence to state it did happen and you choose to view that as a lie.... there for you need to prove it as such.

I noticed there are 2 types of holocaust deniers here:

The first ones really doubt there was a holocuast; simply because they don't know what to believe anymore, lack a solid education, are constantly bombarded by anti-semitic and pro-Nazi propaganda here, and don't have much appreciation for the Jews (due to what the Zionists have been doing).

Then we have the second ones; these guys know pretty well the holocaust happened (I know because they admitted it many times before) but justify it because of their hate for the jews; most are even proud of it. It's this hate that keeps them comming up with new lies in an attempt to make other people share their hate.

I feel sorry for these second ones; they are beyond hope, and hate will keep them faithful to their own lies until they turn the whole forum against the jews (if you've been long enough on this forum, you know who they are). The first ones... I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult you... but the truth is you are just suckers. :(

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm with you... that's why I'm so sure Stalin killed no one. 9 million to 60 million... come on!!! :rolleyes:

You are perfectly free to claim that Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky and the rest of the Soviet leadership never killed a single person.

You may also defend socialism as much as you like. Being a socialist is still politically correct and you will not be punished for it.

You will not be fined or imprisoned and it's very unlikely you'll lose your job or be violently assaulted as a result of defending the Soviets.

Compare this to what happens to people who say they don't believe in the Jewish holocaust: http://www.zundelsite.org/debate/victims/index.html

http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial/images/Faurisson1989.jpg

Btw - where is all this proof you speak of? For "the Holocaust." So far you've only posted a picture of some typhus victims.

picha
28-09-2011, 01:43 PM
Just because you make a law designed to (supposedly) defeat a certain group, it does not mean that they are the only ones who are held accountable to that law, if 200 Germans who were supposedly not pro Nazi was punished as a result it does not change the reason why the law was created..

Feel free to point out the revelations revealed in the countries where people were free to question it?

So far on this thread there has been very little other than speculative assumptions based on black spots that are there 70 od years after during a time where technology was not a speck on what it is today...

Lets not forget also the amount of evidence is dismissed on speculative reasons, in order to support the pro Nazi speculations.

I am happy to except that the pro Zionist movement (which the Nazi's were apart of) have sold the holocaust and hyped it to the extreme min order to cement their agenda... but there is no evidence that proves it did not happen... and lots of speculation to state it did not.

Maybe those 200 germans were people who knew too much and had to be shut up permanently? I never knew about it until I watched that pirrepoint film. I thought the only ones who were hanged were the nuremburg ones but they hung 200 more.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 01:52 PM
You are perfectly free to claim that Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky and the rest of the Soviet leadership never killed a single person.

You may also defend socialism as much as you like. Being a socialist is still politically correct and you will not be punished for it.

You will not be fined or imprisoned and it's very unlikely you'll lose your job or be violently assaulted as a result of defending the Soviets.

Compare this to what happens to people who say they don't believe in the Jewish holocaust: http://www.zundelsite.org/debate/victims/index.html

Oh no, poor holocaust denier; he was just trying to change the world for the best -getting rid of all those nasty jews that run the world-, and look what they did to him...

Btw - where is all this proof you speak of? For "the Holocaust." So far you've only posted a picture of some typhus victims.

Do you really believe an empty statement like "those are victims of typhus" proves there was no holocuaust... Jeez, no wonder why you are a holocaust denier, you simply have no standards.

Tell me, what makes you think saying "those are victims of typhus" clears the Nazis from killing millions? Then will go to evidence 2 of 100,000,000,000,000.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 02:14 PM
Again..weird reasoning..

Claiming another official Truth maybe not adds up to the numbers,really dont make your own case that much more believable..

But hey...Atleast you make the point that we as mankind shouldnt accept official storys without insisting on believable proof and reason..

It's called sarcasm; and it's used when a discussion is far too ridiculous to even take it seriously... :cool:

flyermay
28-09-2011, 02:45 PM
Since this is over... one point more: If you don't know which evidences I'm talking about, then it's time for you to stop making a fool of yourself, and start reading some real history (by real historians).

mercy
28-09-2011, 03:18 PM
Do you really believe an empty statement like "those are victims of typhus" proves there was no holocuaust... Jeez, no wonder why you are a holocaust denier, you simply have no standards.

Tell me, what makes you think saying "those are victims of typhus" clears the Nazis from killing millions?

And again this weird reasoning..

Do you really believe an empty statement like "those are victims of Holocaust" proves there WAS a Holocaust?

Tell me,what makes you think saying "those are victims of Holocaust" confirms the Nazis killing millions?

Its your claim its shows jews as victim of Holocaust..We dont deny anything you guys didnt claim first and harrass us for not believing at face value..

flyermay
28-09-2011, 03:50 PM
And again this weird reasoning..

Do you really believe an empty statement like "those are victims of Holocaust" proves there WAS a Holocaust?

Tell me,what makes you think saying "those are victims of Holocaust" confirms the Nazis killing millions?

Its your claim its shows jews as victim of Holocaust..We dont deny anything you guys didnt claim first and harrass us for not believing at face value..

FFS, It's not the statement, it's the dead bodies... you are the ones making empty statements about actual pictures of dead bodies, which even revisionists admit were killed without any doubt by the Nazis (whether by action or omission, and whether they are jews or not)... Jesus, what's so difficult to understand?

Do you realise how childish this is? You want to believe your friends the Nazis killed no one... go ahead... but don't blame the world for thinking you are complete morons! (moron is not an insult, it's a psychological term)

flyermay
28-09-2011, 04:02 PM
And I don't understand why you complain about these holocaust deniers been sent into prison... don't you agree with the Nazis sending morons to concentration camps? :cool:

thirdwave
28-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Maybe those 200 germans were people who knew too much and had to be shut up permanently? I never knew about it until I watched that pirrepoint film. I thought the only ones who were hanged were the nuremburg ones but they hung 200 more.

Well maybe they were all lady boys with three penises..

I hardly think we can conclude the holocaust never happened because some countries will not tolerate pro nazi excuses and killed 200 hundred Germans who supposedly broke that law...

in the UK its not illegal to question it, and I have not really been convinced!.

mercy
28-09-2011, 04:10 PM
FFS, It's not the statement, it's the dead bodies... you are the ones making empty statements about actual pictures of dead bodies, which even revisionists admit were killed without any doubt by the Nazis (whether by action or omission, and whether they are jews or not)... Jesus, what's so difficult to understand?

Do you realise how childish this is? You want to believe your friends the Nazis killed no one... go ahead... but don't blame the world for thinking you are a complete moron! (moron is not an insult, it's a psychological term)




Wooow...So you think that questioning whether or not there was a fierce plan to gas and kill not just 6000000 jews but the whole jewish population,is the same as to suggest that the german army didnt kill people in 2ww?

Grow up..War is ugly...People die...

"And your friends the Nazis"...tsk tsk..That comment just make YOU seem like a moron.....

flyermay
28-09-2011, 04:16 PM
Wooow...So you think that questioning whether or not there was a fierce plan to gas and kill not just 6000000 jews but the whole jewish population,is the same as to suggest that the german army didnt kill people in 2ww?

Grow up..War is ugly...People die...

"And your friends the Nazis"...tsk tsk..That comment just make YOU seem like a moron.....

But you are not questioning whether there was a plan to gas 6 million jews... you are stating that the holocaust never happened!!!

Do you see the difference?

Do you realise not even Neo-Nazi revisionists like David Irving claim such idiocy?

"And your friends the Nazis"...tsk tsk..That comment just make YOU seem like a moron.....

Why else would you deny that the most obnoxious criminals in recent history carried out (a well documented) holocaust?

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 04:30 PM
Do you really believe an empty statement like "those are victims of typhus" proves there was no holocuaust...

(Nothing empty about stating the obvious: that these unfortunate people died from typhus.)

It is impossible to prove a negative.

I can never prove that Hitler and Himmler did not gas 6 million Jews somewhere deep in the forest at night when nobody were looking.

But unfortunately I think you lack the intelligence necessary to understand this principle.

johnfb
28-09-2011, 04:37 PM
(Nothing empty about stating the obvious: that these unfortunate people died from typhus.)

It is impossible to prove a negative.

I can never prove that Hitler and Himmler did not gas 6 million Jews somewhere deep in the forest at night when nobody were looking.

But unfortunately I think you lack the intelligence necessary to understand this principle.



Well we DO KNOW that Jews were gassed in T4 dont we...so Jews WERE gassed under the Nazi regime.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 04:40 PM
(Nothing empty about stating the obvious: that these unfortunate people died from typhus.)

It is impossible to prove a negative.

I can never prove that Hitler and Himmler did not gas 6 million Jews somewhere deep in the forest at night when nobody were looking.

But unfortunately I think you lack the intelligence necessary to understand this principle.

Again... I told you I was going to put it easy for you, and that I was not going to ask you prove any negative.

You just have to prove your statement about these people dying from typhus; you have to prove that this was not due to Nazi action or omission, therefore clearing them of any responsibility; and then you have to prove how the holocaust never happened, when we have all these irrefutable evidences of it.

We've been at it for 3 days already, and you still have no clue where to start.

flyermay
28-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Since this is rapidly declining... I'm going to give you a hand; I'm going to help you beat those Jews that planted all those evidences for the holocaust, and I'm going to help you prove there was no holocaust.

You are approaching the problem from the wrong angle: you don't need to prove the holocaust never happened, just prove that all the evidences are false

....

Tip: you can find these evidences on the internet; it would be good for you to have a look at them for first time ;)

mercy
28-09-2011, 05:15 PM
But you are not questioning whether there was a plan to gas 6 million jews... you are stating that the holocaust never happened!!!

Do you see the difference?

Do you realise not even Neo-Nazi revisionists like David Irving claim such idiocy?



Why else would you deny that the most obnoxious criminals in recent history carried out (a well documented) holocaust?

WHAT!!..I never stated that Holocaust never happend...Im just questioning the so called proof...

Maybe its just me,but I had the understanding that the claim of a plan and action to systematically gas and kill the jewish people is what is considered to be Holocaust..If im wrong here,its a misunderstanding on my part..sorry..

Im denying that any of the, by you and other believers, presented "proofs"
show how "the most obnoxious criminals" carried out Holocaust yes...

But im not denying whether it happend or not...

I hope YOU can see the difference..

flyermay
28-09-2011, 05:39 PM
WHAT!!..I never stated that Holocaust never happend...Im just questioning the so called proof...

Maybe its just me,but I had the understanding that the claim of a plan and action to systematically gas and kill the jewish people is what is considered to be Holocaust..If im wrong here,its a misunderstanding on my part..sorry..

Im denying that any of the, by you and other believers, presented "proofs"
show how "the most obnoxious criminals" carried out Holocaust yes...

But im not denying whether it happend or not...

I hope YOU can see the difference..

Yes, I noticed there is much confusion between what is the holocaust, what is a Neo-Nazi, and what constitutes evidences... That's why I've been telling you all to be carefull with what these guys say (the Neo-Nazis who know there was a holocaust, and are proud of it); they are just trying to confuse you to support their cause.

On this thread, we are not discussing whether or not it was 6 million jews, we are not discussing if those that perished in the holocaust were just jews, we are not discussing the causes of death, we are not discussing whether or not there were gas chambers, and we are not discussing whether or not the extermination of the jews was planned from the beginning,... I also discussed all those questions in other threads, and I also took the stand that many of those claims were wrong.

What we are discussing here is whether or not the holocaust happened... period. The title of the thread is clear, the question on the poll is clear, and the content of my posts (I think) are clear enough.

Now, no matter what these people tell you, this is what the following terms mean to the rest of the world:

Holocaust: mass murder or slaughter of human beings by other human beings; often used as a reference to the events that lead to the deaths of millions of innocent civilians in Nazi occupied territories.

Neo-Nazi: a person that currently supports and defends National Socialism.

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 05:51 PM
Well we DO KNOW that Jews were gassed in T4

Proof?

johnfb
28-09-2011, 06:20 PM
Proof?



You really need to keep up here laddy, try to pay attention now.......




Stupid comments, but usual from you, so I move on.



Those targeted were identified as "life unworthy of life" , including but not limited to the criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane and the weak, for elimination from the chain of heredity.


... mental patients of Jewish origin - like the majority of mentally and physically disabled people in the German Reich - had become the victims of the first big systematic program of mass murder carried out by the Nazi regime. In the course of the Aktion "T4" (named after the address of the Berlin Euthanasia Headquarters at Tiergartenstraße 4) carried out in 1940/41, Jewish hospital patients were registered, selected, and deported to extermination institutions, and gassed to death with carbon monoxide.

In Austria, where Jews at that time were already ghettoized in special mass housing in Vienna, the Wagner von Jauregg Mental Hospital "Am Steinhof" functioned as a collection place. In the summer of 1940 patients were brought to the Hartheim extermination institution; some of them were brought there via the Niedernhart sanatorium. The monthly report of the Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Vienna dated July 1940 states that 400 Jews had been deported from "Steinhof." In the course of the year 1940 some reports of deaths and some urns of ashes reached Vienna. Inquiries about the fate of these people were dryly answered with the words "transferred by ministerial order to a hospital that has not been identified." The cause and the place of death were systematically forged in documents relating to the patients deaths and in explanations given to relatives or authorities. Many death certificates relating to deported Jewish psychiatric patients were issued by "the registry office, Chelm, Lublin district", but in actuality they had been fabricated in the Berlin "T4" headquarters, brought to Lublin by a messenger, and mailed from there.
http://www.doew.at/projekte/holocaust/shoahengl/euth/euth.html



So there were Jews murdered in this fashion.

So now we must agree that:


1. People were killed in the institutions
2. These people were killed by leathal injections and by gassings
3. There were Jewish patients
4. Jews were gassed at the institutions

This covers the question about gassing of Jews.
We now have it that thay were.


Your arguement seems to centre on the number, as the fact that Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime using gassing has been proven.

johnfb
28-09-2011, 06:29 PM
Proof?

Always banging on about proof....so we are all still waiting for your proof on the Russian stuff...as you have been asked for.



I want to see the evidences for Stalin killing anyone... this is the real holohoax!!!

Show me just 1 piece of conclusive evidence

johnfb
28-09-2011, 06:39 PM
Sorry mate i must have missed the question.
The point i made was that those jewish women who all gave birth to healthy babies were all held in a camp.
Clearly they were not being exterminated and clearly there was no general policy of extermination.
Or else why would they have been allowed to give birth.
Dont you Holocaust™ promoters see the anomaly?
After all it is your claims that jewish babies were tossed into the air and shot being used for target practice by the NAZIs.

Many people died as a result of the war and famine and diseases but that is a far cry from there being a policy of extermination

ps:
I call them internment camps because there is no evidence they were anything else.
Although there were a number of forced labour camps run by people like Werhner Von Braun who used Jewish slave labour. Von Braun used the jewish slave labour to build V1 and V2 rockets which were used to attack Britain and killed many people yet after the war was handed a plum gig by the USA along with hundred of his fellow NAZIs. Despite the proven fact that many Jewish slave workers were shot under orders by Von Braun.







Dont remember ever saying that.



Anyway, my point was that you said one thing but the article says something esle (unless I am mistaken) and it appeared that you misrepresented what was said. Its highlighted in red....(unless I am mistaken)

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060071628&postcount=1033




Still unanswered

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 06:54 PM
(about Jews getting ..exhausted..)

Alright. I don't buy this info at face value, but let's say 400 or 4000 mentally disabled Jews were killed in the German euthanasia program - eh... what about those 6 million who supposedly were gassed in the camps? It seems your logic is "hey now, they killed 5 retarded Jews in Heidelberg in 1924, so this of course proves that they killed 6 million later on." This is insanity.

johnfb
28-09-2011, 06:59 PM
Alright. I don't buy this info at face value, but let's say 400 or 4000 mentally disabled Jews were killed in the German euthanasia program - eh... what about those 6 million who supposedly were gassed in the camps? It seems your logic is "hey now, they killed 5 retarded Jews in Heidelberg in 1924, so this of course proves that they killed 6 million later on." This is insanity.


Hardly.
You asked for proof they gassed Jews, I have provided it....you are arguing numbers....I have proved they gassed Jews. Checkmate.


Now where is YOUR PROOF on Stalin.......dont be afraid, your own logic and approach will be important to you now as you present it in the manner you always demand...so off ya go.......

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 07:01 PM
Stalin? What has Stalin got to do with anything?

You people are insane. Holopsychosis. I just feel sorry for you guys. I feel like I'm kicking and kicking and kicking someone who's already lying down. I see no hope for you.

johnfb
28-09-2011, 07:06 PM
Stalin? What has Stalin got to do with anything?

You people are insane. Holopsychosis. I just feel sorry for you guys. I feel like I'm kicking and kicking and kicking someone who's already lying down. I see no hope for you.



YOU were banging on about those killed in USSR, not me.
You have been asked to prove it, so prove it.



Yes.

Point 2: there never was any Jewish holocaust. It's a big lie.
Point 3: people die all the time and nobody makes a fuss about it.

50 or more million died in Soviet. Seen a Hollywood movie about it? Any laws making it illegal to deny it? Any money being paid out to survivors?

10 million or so died quite recently in Congo. Not a big political concern.
100's of millions have been exterminated by governments the last few hundred years. And it's just business as usual. So that 6 million somebodies died in the course of some war that killed ten times as many shouldn't really be something to be particularly concerned about even if it really happened.

Btw - people are dying in Libya right now. Not thanks to badboy Gaddafi, but to the nice NATO guys and their "rebels." How do you feel about that?

bjornyvan
28-09-2011, 11:41 PM
What silly games you play.

bendoon
29-09-2011, 01:00 AM
The Holocaust is a central propaganda piece of the World Government agenda and has to be defended at all costs, similar to 9/11 but much more so. This is why when the subject is discussed any dissenters who refuse to glibly swallow the official mantra are villified, attacked and even jailed by the NWO blackshirts. If nothing else, people have the right to their own opinions even if they might be wrong, but when people are attacked so vigorously for their beliefs it makes you wonder that they are more likely to be correct.

bjornyvan
29-09-2011, 02:08 AM
Amen brother.

flyermay
29-09-2011, 06:00 AM
The Holocaust is a central propaganda piece of the World Government agenda and has to be defended at all costs, similar to 9/11 but much more so. This is why when the subject is discussed any dissenters who refuse to glibly swallow the official mantra are villified, attacked and even jailed by the NWO blackshirts. If nothing else, people have the right to their own opinions even if they might be wrong, but when people are attacked so vigorously for their beliefs it makes you wonder that they are more likely to be correct.

I think it's great you conside yourselves villified when called Neo-Nazis, Jew-haters, holocaust deniers, and so on... it's definitely a step in the right direction. ;)

johnfb
29-09-2011, 08:50 AM
What silly games you play.

Answer the question...where's your proof...come on show us the proof of what you said....ANSWER THE QUESTION........and I want proof at the same level YOU demand....answer the question.

flyermay
29-09-2011, 09:17 AM
Answer the question...where's your proof...come on show us the proof of what you said....ANSWER THE QUESTION........and I want proof at the same level YOU demand....answer the question.

Right-wingers need no proof of anything... they just repeat things long enough until they sound like truths. Why do you think they've been bashing about it here for years until they got 53% to buy the idea?... repeat... repeat... and repeat...

They first got enough people used to the idea that the figures for the holocaust were wrong... until everyone got used to see tons of threads about it.

Then they got people used to the idea that the gas chambers never existed... and again, once they got enough people used to the idea, they moved on to the next step.

Now they already have 97 people buying the idea that the holocaust didn't even happen... forget the figures or the gas chambers: it never happened!!!... and again, people fall for it because they see it repeated once and again.

What's next?... well, you don't need to be a genius to see what the next step is: pushing national socialism... check it out, they began already promoting it on this forum!!! (just check the last posts from the "usual suspects")


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
(George Santayana)

thirdwave
29-09-2011, 10:14 AM
The Holocaust is a central propaganda piece of the World Government agenda and has to be defended at all costs, similar to 9/11 but much more so.


of course, it was vital to their plans to move into Palestine.. but is very odd that the people you are pointing out who are upholding this "story" .. are from the same group who funded the Nazi's ...

the Nazi's never lost the war, it was job done!

This is why when the subject is discussed any dissenters who refuse to glibly swallow the official mantra are villified, attacked and even jailed by the NWO blackshirts. So are you now typing from you cell?? lol

What a load of tosh, the banning or denial in some countries is you saving grace because its the only fact you bloody bang on about.


If nothing else, people have the right to their own opinions even if they might be wrong, but when people are attacked so vigorously for their beliefs it makes you wonder that they are more likely to be correct.
and the Hypocrisy here is actually quite gag worthy... when you clearly accuse so many people of lying and creating a false agenda to suit your "Opinion" .. you guys are the ones who attack, in order to defend the Nazi regime... when challenged you complain about being attacked.

Your not in prison, you are on an open forum with the free right to question it, you just doing a lousy job.

thirdwave
29-09-2011, 10:17 AM
Stalin? What has Stalin got to do with anything?

You people are insane. Holopsychosis. I just feel sorry for you guys. I feel like I'm kicking and kicking and kicking someone who's already lying down. I see no hope for you.

your doing it with a paper bag over you head so most of the time your missing... don't worry! :)

rodin
29-09-2011, 11:00 AM
of course, it was vital to their plans to move into Palestine.. but is very odd that the people you are pointing out who are upholding this "story" .. are from the same group who funded the Nazi's ...

If I post facts about the global criminal Jewish banking mafia on less well balanced forums I am immediately called a 'NAZI' :rolleyes:, yet I never get a penny from Wall St...

You are right. Something does not square about the Hitler story, but that does not make the 'Holocaust' any more credible.

thirdwave
29-09-2011, 11:11 AM
If I post facts about the global criminal Jewish banking mafia on less well balanced forums I am immediately called a 'NAZI' :rolleyes:, yet I never get a penny from Wall St...

Maybe its because you only choose to pick out the Jewish ones?

So you dont do your self any favours.

I once pointed out a huge list of industries with immense power on this planet, non of what were Jewish... And you will just say something like " you are working on it" as if you are LOOKING for anything you can get to support your silly dogmatic addiction to the world being fucked by Jews.

You are right. Something does not square about the Hitler story, but that does not make the 'Holocaust' any more credible.
Dopes not need to as there is a vast amount of other info that does. when you dont ignore it and make assumptions that they are all just plotted lies..

A simple look at the Nazi agenda during WW2 speaks volumes in its self..

What makes you sound more like a Nazi is when you at times almost dismiss any wrong doings because other wrong doings also took place...

hadaka_jimmy
29-09-2011, 11:29 AM
Now, no matter what these people tell you, this is what the following terms mean to the rest of the world:

Holocaust: mass murder or slaughter of human beings by other human beings; often used as a reference to the events that lead to the deaths of millions of innocent civilians in Nazi occupied territories.

Neo-Nazi: a person that currently supports and defends National Socialism.

Of course, victors write the history. I would support a national socialist government, I also question the six million (ad infinitum) deaths and mass gassings.

I'd doubt I was a neo-Nazi though. No matter what the 'rest of the world' thinks.

flyermay
29-09-2011, 11:32 AM
Of course, victors write the history. I would support a national socialist government, I also question the six million (ad infinitum) deaths and mass gassings.

I'd doubt I was a neo-Nazi though. No matter what the 'rest of the world' thinks.

So, you would support a Nazi government (a national socialist government), but you are not a Neo-Nazi... what is it you think a Neo-Nazi is then?

hadaka_jimmy
29-09-2011, 11:36 AM
So, you would support a Nazi government (national socialist), but you are not a Neo-Nazi... what is it you think a Neo-Nazi is?

I'd support a national socialist government, but my ideal would be a fascist state. I don't think that makes me a neo-Nazi. People's perceptions of fascism in general are so widely skewed due to propaganda it borders on paranoia the very mention of the word.