Schools' Fingerprinting Agenda

[hagbard_celine]

My daughter came home from school today telling me something shocking. There's been a few incidents lately where fire alarms at the school have been set off as a prank. The school undersatandably wants to get to the bottom of it. But the way they plan to do it is unprecedented. They want to take the fingerprints of all the pupils and compare them to those on the fire alarm button! Firstly I'm wondering where are they getting the resources to do that. Apparently the police are not involved yet. I'm also wondering if this action is part of a bigger agenda, especially since reading this on David's headlines a few days ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6417565.stm

Maybe you recall the story I posted a few months ago about the kid who got their fingerprints taken as a demonstration during a school trip to a police station. The police kept those prints and opened a file in the kid's name!

I'm going to tell the school that they may not take my daughter's fingerprints under any circumstances. If they're that desperate to catch the culprit then they can take it to the police.

[notaslave]

My daughter came home from school today telling me something shocking. There's been a few incidents lately where fire alarms at the school have been set off as a prank. The school undersatandably wants to get to the bottom of it. But the way they plan to do it is unprecedented. They want to take the fingerprints of all the pupils and compare them to those on the fire alarm button! Firstly I'm wondering where are they getting the resources to do that. Apparently the police are not involved yet. I'm also wondering if this action is part of a bigger agenda, especially since reading this on David's headlines a few days ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6417565.stm

Maybe you recall the story I posted a few months ago about the kid who got their fingerprints taken as a demonstration during a school trip to a police station. The police kept those prints and opened a file in the kid's name!

I'm going to tell the school that they may not take my daughter's fingerprints under any circumstances. If they're that desperate to catch the culprit then they can take it to the police.


This is a gross invasion of privacy and I am not even sure it is legal.

Just because they are in education do not assume that they do everything legally I have discovered them behaving illegally in the past.

You should also discuss your views with other parents. Many may not be keen on the fingerprinting of their kids but will say nothing because they think they are alone in objecting.

[lookfar]

Hi there

How strange that you bring this up as I was literally talking about this subject to my mate about an hour ago. She told me that her dad had recently heard that one school head teacher apparently told the kids that they were playing a game of finger printing & NOT TO TELL THEIR PARENTS!!!

This seems to be high up on the school agenda at the moment and I'm wondering why the sudden increase in it? I know they've been trying various tactics lately with library books etc, but to go about it in this sort of way makes you realise how devious they are now becoming. All done in the "we are doing it to protect you" PRS way.

I've not heard anything at my sons school yet, but am going to see his teacher soon because of them forcing a religious label on him (he's 5!). He came home from school last week & told me he was a Christian!!! I told him that he wasn't & he said he was cos he went to a church with the school!:eek: I knew nothing about a planned church visit and want to stress to them that I don't want him being forced to think he should be a "Christian" just to fit in with them. I'm also going to bring up the finger printing issue & state that under NO circumstances do I want him printed!

Good luck with it all. I also agree that you should talk to other parents as I'm sure most are not aware of the implications of this. I'm certainly going to.

[dondaz]

Hi hagbard_celine.

Yeah, they're trying all sorts of ways to con and stealthly take our kids fingerprints, eyescans and maybe try and microchip them a little further down the road.

Don't be shy when it comes to dealing with head teachers who try these tactics. They need to be put in their place over this.

If you're going to protest, let me know and we will do our best to turn up.

I'm serious!

This is a thread I posted when I found out my childrens school had a biometric fingerprint scanner installed on the library computer.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1116

We really have to fight these rats over this issue. This is something they are trying to keep out of mainstream-media.

I will have my movie finished and posted this week; grrrrr, I really have something against facists who use kids for evil doings.

Best

Darren

(To know & yet not to do, is in fact not to know.)

[hagbard_celine]

Thanks for all your replies, guys. I have mentioned this to other parents and they're as much against it as I am. I've phoned the school and left a message on thier answerphone stating explicitly that I withold consent for this to be done to my child.

I've also found a good site: http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/home.htm

Synchronistically there's a story about it on todays headlines.

[hagbard_celine]

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/fingerprinting-in-uk-schools-more-authoritarian-than-in-china-baroness-walmsley.12231.html I'm glad this is issue is growing in publiuc awareness.

I got a phonecall yesterday from the school librarian. She was very nice and explained to me that the actual programme is that the school is taking fingerprints of children for the library only. This database is secure and the information cannot be accessed by anyone else. I thanked her, but said that this is not the point. I'm concerned that the children are being hit so young by this procedure that it will desensitize them for when they're older and fingerprint databases are everywhere. She said: "this makes it so much easier to keep track of the books and who's got them. No child can take a book out in another's name". Well, there's always a good reason why these measures are beneficial. The scheme is not compulsory... it never is to begin with! I'm sure this is just the start of more and more scemes like this until the kids will need their fingerprints just to get in through the gates every morning! I've spoken to two other parents and they're very much in agreement with me.

I'm also bothered by something else. I phoned the school and told them that I did not give permission for my child's fingerprints to be taken, but if I hadn't, would they have even asked me?

(It's ironic that schools are arrogantly making decisions for our kids without any thought to our rights as parents, but then when the kids run amock, smashing windows and spraying graffitti, who do they blame?:mad: )

[freedomiswithinyou]

I'm 13 and I live in the UK and I've heard rumours of fingerprinting coming to our school and believe me when they ask for my fingerprints I'm walking right out of the school and never going back. :mad:

[dondaz]

I'm also bothered by something else. I phoned the school and told them that I did not give permission for my child's fingerprints to be taken, but if I hadn't, would they have even asked me?


Why would they want to ask your permission? They are told not to ask you, so this is what they do.

You shouldn't have had to ask them not to. It is called facism!

People really are waking up to this agenda.

I suggest you go see your MP and make your voice heard. If it is a Labour MP, they will probably try to convince you it is all harmless or make a few false promises just to get you out of the way. Tell them you want this to be discussed in Parliment. Get your friends to complain too!

Best of luck.

Here's a post to my trailer for my upcoming documentary:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2134

Best

Darren

[hagbard_celine]

Why would they want to ask your permission? They are told not to ask you, so this is what they do.

You shouldn't have had to ask them not to. It is called facism!

People really are waking up to this agenda.

I suggest you go see your MP and make your voice heard. If it is a Labour MP, they will probably try to convince you it is all harmless or make a few false promises just to get you out of the way. Tell them you want this to be discussed in Parliment. Get your friends to complain too!

Best of luck.

Here's a post to my trailer for my upcoming documentary:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2134

Best

Darren

Thanks, mate. I like the look of your website too.

I sent you an email about this matter. Did you get it?

[hagbard_celine]

I was contacted by LTKA and they suggested I write to the school's head teacher and let them know what reply I get.

[hagbard_celine]

I phoned the school's deputy head yesterday and asked her about fingerprinting, but she seemed very evasive about it. She told me she'd look into it and call me back, but she hasn't. I'm written her a letter:

Dear _

I thought I’d better write to you over the issue I raised (school fingerprinting) when I phoned you the other day. You said you’d call me back, but you haven’t yet. This deeply concerns me. Some very worrying rumours are circulating at the moment about similar schemes in other schools and unethical methods schools are employing to go achieve it. See www.leavethemkidsalone.com. I’m not saying that I accept them all as true, but the fact that they’re out there bothers me.

I want to be clear that I withold my consent for (my daughter's name) to be fingerprinted or have any biometric data taken from her under any circumstances. I consider this a breach of her civil liberties, not to mention my rights as a parent. If any member of staff tries to do this I’ve instructed her to refuse and refer that staff member to me. (Were the school planning on asking our permission anyway? I hope so!) Several other parents share my misgivings.

The modern world is a very violent and oppressive place, and becoming more so with every passing day. State surveillance and control is increasing and new technology, like fingerprinting machines, makes it easier for governments and big corporations to abuse and enslave the majority of people. The famous book by George Orwell “1984” is a very prophetic warning and prediction, in my view. There’s nothing inherently bad about a simple library fingerprint database and the librarian ensured me it is secure, but the point is that this could be the thin end of the wedge; it certainly is at other schools. It could lead to a situation where pupils’ whole identity at the school is governed by their entry in a computer file. This also desensitizes them to the adult Big Brother society that is looming ahead of us where people are governed and controlled by a state computer network where no penny can be turned or door unlocked without permission from this network. I assure you it is terrifyingly close. The only chance we have of stopping this nightmare becoming a reality is if we stand up to it and refuse to cooperate with it. I want today’s children to grow up in a better world, not a worse one; and I intend that this will happen. It would be nice if the other parents and school authorities would join me in my protest, but I will do it alone if I have to.

Yours Sincerely

(HC)

[lookfar]

Great letter there HC. Be interesting to see the reply (if you get one!) Good luck with it all.

[hagbard_celine]

Great letter there HC. Be interesting to see the reply (if you get one!) Good luck with it all.


Thanks, I'll keep you posted.

[gordonfreeman]

I remembered that I was fingerprinted in my childhood years along with my kindergarten students.

We all waited in line in the police department in Walnut to get our finger printed, so it can recorded. It was funny really....we just go in and out.

[deca]

Yeah this is not funny.
I went to the local sports center and if you live in the area you get a discount
Normal they send out free card to all the house holds in the area have done for years, But this year every family member has to have there own card plus give personal details and picture.

e.g apart from name,address,phone age etc.

also have to tick box
category A(white)
white Irish British
Any other white Background

category B(mixed)
White & Black Caribbean White & black African / white & Asian
any other mixed background

category C (asian/asian british)
Indian / pakistani /bangladeshi
any other Asian background

category D
black or black british
caribbean / african
any other black background

category E
Chinese or other ethnic minority
Chinese / other


also ask if you are low /no income

[hagbard_celine]

I remembered that I was fingerprinted in my childhood years along with my kindergarten students.

We all waited in line in the police department in Walnut to get our finger printed, so it can recorded. It was funny really....we just go in and out.

Did the police give you your prints afterwards to take home? Schoolkids are often taken on tours of police stations as a fun outting, and a fingerprinting demonstration is sometimes part of the tour. But a friend of mine had that done on a school outing once and a few years later, when she was arrested as an adult, she discovered that the police had kept those prints and opened up a bloody file on her! Talk about Nazi Germany!

"Papiere bitte! (snaps fingers)

[lottie]

Yeah this is not funny.
I went to the local sports center and if you live in the area you get a discount
Normal they send out free card to all the house holds in the area have done for years, But this year every family member has to have there own card plus give personal details and picture.

e.g apart from name,address,phone age etc.

also have to tick box
category A(white)
white Irish British
Any other white Background

category B(mixed)
White & Black Caribbean White & black African / white & Asian
any other mixed background

category C (asian/asian british)
Indian / pakistani /bangladeshi
any other Asian background

category D
black or black british
caribbean / african
any other black background

category E
Chinese or other ethnic minority
Chinese / other


also ask if you are low /no income

i had the same thing happen to me deca, well similar, i went to my local swimming pool and thought i'd get a 1-card as its called which means you pay like a 1 off fee- £16 i think and then you can use the pool as much as you like for 1month but in order to get this card i had to state my name address,dob, allergies, etc etc AND they wanted me to pose for their webcam so they could put on a photy of me to the record....i said is that really necessary and they said yes so someone else doesnt use your card.... i said well thanks then but no thanks ..i'll pay £3.00 each time i come then!! but basically the cheaper option is to get you photo on a card....this is not good imo...they are familiarising us and desensitising us to giving over personal data in under the guise of better value! :rolleyes:

Hagbard....applause for your letter to the head....i'd exactly the same if in your shoes...the 'system' won't know whats hit it the day i give birth...i'll resist all the way! well done HC!! :)

[gordonfreeman]

Did the police give you your prints afterwards to take home? Schoolkids are often taken on tours of police stations as a fun outting, and a fingerprinting demonstration is sometimes part of the tour. But a friend of mine had that done on a school outing once and a few years later, when she was arrested as an adult, she discovered that the police had kept those prints and opened up a bloody file on her! Talk about Nazi Germany!

"Papiere bitte! (snaps fingers)

Yeah, the Police give me my prints. I remembered it clearly, but I don't where it went. I think it was lost. That was 13 years ago.

[hagbard_celine]

Yeah this is not funny.
I went to the local sports center and if you live in the area you get a discount
Normal they send out free card to all the house holds in the area have done for years, But this year every family member has to have there own card plus give personal details and picture.

e.g apart from name,address,phone age etc.

also have to tick box
category A(white)
white Irish British
Any other white Background

category B(mixed)
White & Black Caribbean White & black African / white & Asian
any other mixed background

category C (asian/asian british)
Indian / pakistani /bangladeshi
any other Asian background

category D
black or black british
caribbean / african
any other black background

category E
Chinese or other ethnic minority
Chinese / other


also ask if you are low /no income

I took my kid to the swimming pool to get her a child discount card and they asked to see her effin' passport! :mad: Sure they need proof of her age, but I got the same card from the same pool when I was a kid and they didn't ask my dad to show my passport. When I was a kid the only time you needed your passport was when travelling.

[hagbard_celine]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/04/nschools04.xml

I'm glad that this is still being covered in the media.

[hagbard_celine]

I've been interviewed about school fingerprinting by the Oxford Mail: http://www.oxfordmail.net/ A reporter spoke to me on the phone about the things that have been happening at my daughter's school then someone came round and took some photos of us. I'll let you know if it gets published.

The Oxford Mail is a local tabloid that was part of the Robert Maxwell media empire: Pergamon Group, including the Daily Mirror and The European. It's actually very good for a newspaper and they cover events with a lot of community interest. I'm proud to help exposing this sinister agenda.

[lookfar]

Well done HC :) Hope they don't censor you too much to cover up the truth!!

[john white]

I've been interviewed about school fingerprinting by the Oxford Mail: http://www.oxfordmail.net/ A reporter spoke to me on the phone about the things that have been happening at my daughter's school then someone came round and took some photos of us. I'll let you know if it gets published.

The Oxford Mail is a local tabloid that was part of the Robert Maxwell media empire: Pergamon Group, including the Daily Mirror and The European. It's actually very good for a newspaper and they cover events with a lot of community interest. I'm proud to help exposing this sinister agenda.

I certainly respect you greatly for making a stand on this Hagbard: and I recall your succesful struggle against your job being re-written from a year or so ago

Go Team!

[hagbard_celine]

Thanks, John. I've no regrets about that!

Here it is:

http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.1452746.0.0.php

It appeared as a full-page story in today's paper. I'm very pleased with it. Chris Buratta seemed very much on our side. I've made a few choice comments in the box, as you see. And I've been very clear that I belive this scheme is linked to the adult NID one that we're fighting to stop.

The Oxford Mail has several sister papers, the broadsheet Oxford Times and a series of free weeklies, the Oxford Courier, Oxford star and Oxford Journal. Hopefully it will get into those too.

[hagbard_celine]

You can see in the article's comments box that an adversary of mine has "outed" me. Not that I give a shit!

[lumukanda]

nice one man, it's good to see this kind of thing in the mainstream media.

[hagbard_celine]

nice one man, it's good to see this kind of thing in the mainstream media.

Thanks, lumukanda. Hopefully this will get the word out to the parents I've been unable to speak to directly. Already several people have come up to me at work or even strangers and spoken to me about it. The school is carrying out this programme in secret, but not any more!

The photo is a good one too. I've got a worried frown on my face which is apt considering the subject matter.

[lumukanda]

it's a cool pic, also, you've got some major balls man, it's one thing to be a nameless, faceless person on the net, it's another to have your face and name out there, i commend you sir, we need more like you.

[john white]

Thanks, John. I've no regrets about that!

Here it is:

http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.1452746.0.0.php

It appeared as a full-page story in today's paper. I'm very pleased with it. Chris Buratta seemed very much on our side. I've made a few choice comments in the box, as you see. And I've been very clear that I belive this scheme is linked to the adult NID one that we're fighting to stop.

The Oxford Mail has several sister papers, the broadsheet Oxford Times and a series of free weeklies, the Oxford Courier, Oxford star and Oxford Journal. Hopefully it will get into those too.

Thanks for the link Hagbard, its good press, so good on you

You know your're doing well when you have a Randi troll (p cameron?) trying (badly) to character assasinate you! Some people appear to deserve a Police State...

[hagbard_celine]

Thanks for the link Hagbard, its good press, so good on you

You know your're doing well when you have a Randi troll (p cameron?) trying (badly) to character assasinate you! Some people appear to deserve a Police State...

Thanks, John.

Yeah, I wrote a thank you email to Chris Buratta for this story. As you can tell, the troll is not new to me. He seems to follow me about everywhere; he's even appeared on this forum a couple of times. Thanks for the encouragement and you're right: You know you're on the right track when people give you grief.

[hagbard_celine]

I'm glad to see this has got onto David's headlines. Not that I want to be famous. I just want to make people aware:

http://http://rinf.com/alt-news/surveillance-big-brother/at-least-285-english-schools-are-fingerprinting-children/

[emtec]

I hope your not fucking accusing me again Hagbard. Haven't you learned since last time not to throw shit before you have proof? How many people is it you have accused on here of being me now? Didnt you listen to the Moderators warning you got the other day?

When will it sink through your thick scull i can post in your name on any board it dosent necessarily mean its you does it?

Sometimes i wonder if its people winding you up in my name or you actually do it yourself to get me banned from boards.

Where are these fucking posts show them or im complaining to the Admin again.

Bollocks to this its the third time Ive caught you shitting on my name on this board im complaining straight away.



Do you know ive been getting mail and PM's about you and how much you have pissed people of with your paranoid and delusional accusations. Someone accused you of attempting to groom information from them well 2 did actually and wanted your address so they could inform the authorities. A mod and myself have been in discussion about this via Pm's.

I'm warning you for the last time stop it now.

[lumukanda]

mmm, i've known hagbard celine since the old icke forum (where i was known as semjaja), a great guy imo, always got good arguments, level headed and with enough balls to go public (wrt to the original topic of this thread), you may have a problem with him, fair enough, but he's ok in my book.

[hagbard_celine]

mmm, i've known hagbard celine since the old icke forum (where i was known as semjaja), a great guy imo, always got good arguments, level headed and with enough balls to go public (wrt to the original topic of this thread), you may have a problem with him, fair enough, but he's ok in my book.

Thanks mate.

I do miss the old Harris forum sometimes. It was pretty chaotic, but it was uninhibited and fun. The problem was that it was totally unmoderated. I'm against censorship of any kind and forums where you get pulled up on petty matters, but if you go to the opposite extreme it just turns into a free-for-all for pornographers and abusers. This forum is better in that sense.

[dondaz]

Hi again hagbard_celine,

Good on yer for standing up and speaking out. I wish there were more people like you who are willing to speak out instead of hiding in their closets. Great stuff.

The sun reported this last week so even the rags are slowly picking up on this!

My film will be finished shortly, boy has it grown. I originally planned to keep it local, but the more I looked into it the more corruption there is.

Keep fighting them my friend;)

Best

Darren

[hagbard_celine]

Hi again hagbard_celine,

Good on yer for standing up and speaking out. I wish there were more people like you who are willing to speak out instead of hiding in their closets. Great stuff.

The sun reported this last week so even the rags are slowly picking up on this!

My film will be finished shortly, boy has it grown. I originally planned to keep it local, but the more I looked into it the more corruption there is.

Keep fighting them my friend;)

Best

Darren

Will do, mate.

:)

Let us know when the film's out.

[enter]

So many of em, and were the moon landing genuine, i believe they happened, yes they have the technology and are going back there, but who gives a shit if they landed on a lifeless chalky wasteland called moon, its f***ng irrelevant compared to the thousands of people who go missing every year, you should be more interested in all the other things that the secret services and shadow forces who are involved in the most terrible things that happen here on earth

[hagbard_celine]

So many of em, and were the moon landing genuine, i believe they happened, yes they have the technology and are going back there, but who gives a shit if they landed on a lifeless chalky wasteland called moon, its f***ng irrelevant compared to the thousands of people who go missing every year, you should be more interested in all the other things that the secret services and shadow forces who are involved in the most terrible things that happen here on earth

I am.

[gordonfreeman]

Smile:), you are getting your fingerprint picture taken.

[understanding]

Well i'm not the smartest person in the world but I'm not the dumbest either.Where? when?and how? I need to know. My husband and I have twelve children and they're (the school System) always trying to get our children to do weird fucked up stuff. Like we don't celebrate certain holidays but they say no talking about God,but they're always trying to force them to celebrate Christmas,halloween,valentines etc.If you ask me it's all a bunch of bullshit to blind kids,and spend our money the way they want it spent.It's sick that they try to force everyone to believe in what they believe in.

[hagbard_celine]

Well i'm not the smartest person in the world but I'm not the dumbest either.Where? when?and how? I need to know. My husband and I have twelve children and they're (the school System) always trying to get our children to do weird fucked up stuff. Like we don't celebrate certain holidays but they say no talking about God,but they're always trying to force them to celebrate Christmas,halloween,valentines etc.If you ask me it's all a bunch of bullshit to blind kids,and spend our money the way they want it spent.It's sick that they try to force everyone to believe in what they believe in.


Hear hear! :)

The ideal school system would be free of any religious doctrine. Some schools are run by left-wing biased aurhorities who take "free from any religious doctrine" to mean "free from Christianity". They want kids to learn about Islam, Hinduism etc, but ban Christianity. This is not fair in my view; and I'm not a Christian myself.

[furi]

I actually work for the DCSF (Department Children Schools and Families) was the DfES (Dep for Education and Skills)up until a week ago. I actually work in the Data and statistics group, collecting, collating all the data that is held on schools databases for students for all the relevant tables performance and financial distributution etc.

I agree that all state funded education should be free of religious teaching, not just because of my personal viewpoint but that it is a public funded service and therefore be representative of the public religions (as they can't agree, teach none of them and leave it to the individual), strangely there is one fact that is not collected in any survey, Religion!, we collect craploads of other stuff on pupil characteristics but we don't collect religious characteristics.

[hagbard_celine]

I actually work for the DCSF (Department Children Schools and Families) was the DfES (Dep for Education and Skills)up until a week ago. I actually work in the Data and statistics group, collecting, collating all the data that is held on schools databases for students for all the relevant tables performance and financial distributution etc.

I agree that all state funded education should be free of religious teaching, not just because of my personal viewpoint but that it is a public funded service and therefore be representative of the public religions (as they can't agree, teach none of them and leave it to the individual), strangely there is one fact that is not collected in any survey, Religion!, we collect craploads of other stuff on pupil characteristics but we don't collect religious characteristics.

I don't think it would be a problem if religious education encouraged children to develop their own spirituality. I was lucky as a kid because I had a superb RE teacher. I've never fogotten him. he taught us about Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa and Chad Varah, the founder of the Samaritans. So it was religious in a very broad sense, like some of these excellent Sunday morning TV programmes like "The Heaven and Earth Show"

[furi]

I have no problems with the teaching of self realisation or the accepted viewpoints that are in existance as long as they are done in a none aggressive manner, if my son had been told to adopt a certain doctrine/faith of any kind I would be down on the school like a thermonuclear warhead, personal interpretation and personal identity is what it is about

[hagbard_celine]

Here's another good vid. It doesn't beat about the bush and tells it like it is:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3678641330100166485&q=bbc+propaganda&total=112&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[oceanwave]

mmm, i've known hagbard celine since the old icke forum (where i was known as semjaja), a great guy imo, always got good arguments, level headed and with enough balls to go public (wrt to the original topic of this thread), you may have a problem with him, fair enough, but he's ok in my book.

and in mine too, known HC since the days of TF...

...keep up the good work HC, as you usually do!...

:)

[hagbard_celine]

and in mine too, known HC since the days of TF...

...keep up the good work HC, as you usually do!...

:)


Thanks, Oceanwave. Is TF "The forum"?

It's good to see that so many people from there have made it over to here.

[oceanwave]

Thanks, Oceanwave. Is TF "The forum"?

It's good to see that so many people from there have made it over to here.

yep TF is indeed the auld place known as The Forum

:)

[hagbard_celine]

This is my daughter's picture of the fingerprint machine they're just started using in her school library:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1582/picturemi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
By porterboy (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/porterboy)

I've done everything I can to warn the other parents; it's up to them now. I hope to God enough of them refuse to allow their children's fingerprints to be taken to screw up the system.

[quester123]

Children must give prints for passports
From The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=496274&in_page_id=1770)
By JASON LEWIS - More by this author » Last updated at 22:31pm on 24th November 2007

Children over the age of six will have their fingerprints taken when applying for a passport to comply with new EU regulations.

The European Commission says youngsters must be fingerprinted for all new EU passports and national ID cards – even those issued in the UK.

Until now, the Government has insisted that only children over the age of 11 applying for biometric passports – which are due to be introduced in 2009 – have to be fingerprinted.

• Revealed: The sinister truth about what they do with our children's fingerprints
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=486930&in_page_id=1770)
But under the proposals, revealed in a report by the Commission, children as young as six could be forced to attend special identity centres.

Once there, their hands would be electronically scanned and their personal details entered on an identity database.

The Commission, which is responsible for the general day-to-day running of the European Union, says the move is essential to prevent child trafficking.

But Tony Bunyan, of civil rights group Statewatch, said: 'The taking of fingerprints from all children from age six upwards is highly questionable. It is a moral and political question, not a technical one.'

[hagbard_celine]

I'm glad I renewed my daughter's passport last year. I don't have one now, but at least she does so when she's old enough to need to renew it again she'll old enough to choose for herself.

Hopefully by then she won't need to because this Big Brother nonsense will be history.

[seer74]

all persons of all ages must stand up and defend their right to personal anonymity. NO ONES IDENTITY IS ANYONES BUSINESS BUT THEIR OWN. Unless of course you have put yourself into a position of power or have done soemone harm then youre identity is everyone's business.

[hagbard_celine]

all persons of all ages must stand up and defend their right to personal anonymity. NO ONES IDENTITY IS ANYONES BUSINESS BUT THEIR OWN. Unless of course you have put yourself into a position of power or have done soemone harm then youre identity is everyone's business.


Quite so. In this world we're being brainwashed into being suspicious of everyone. We're supposed to wonder if our next-door neighbour is a terrorist! We have this ridiculous and sinister phrase "potential terrorist". We're now all guilty until we can prove ourselves innocent; hence the justification for the database state.

[delamo1999]

I'm 13 and I live in the UK and I've heard rumours of fingerprinting coming to our school and believe me when they ask for my fingerprints I'm walking right out of the school and never going back. :mad:


Good for you! I love your spirit and I support you 100% on this. There's no need for you to have to put up with these bullies even if they do run the school.

:)

[hagbard_celine]

Good for you! I love your spirit and I support you 100% on this. There's no need for you to have to put up with these bullies even if they do run the school.

:)

Yes, it's great that he/she is so aware at such a young age. :)

[angeldust]

My son came home from school on the last day of term before the summer holidays and said that his teacher had taken all the classes finger prints!! (so that she could remember her class). Unfortunately he didn't see the problem with that!... just goes to show, that even fingerprinting is the norm among 10 year olds!! :mad:

[hagbard_celine]

My son came home from school on the last day of term before the summer holidays and said that his teacher had taken all the classes finger prints!! (so that she could remember her class). Unfortunately he didn't see the problem with that!... just goes to show, that even fingerprinting is the norm among 10 year olds!! :mad:


It's not too late. Contact the leavethemkids alone site I posted above and they'll give you help on hos to get his file removed.

[angeldust]

I will do, thanks for the advice!! they also did a thing with his DNA (spit) last year, but i wasn't that awake to what was going on then. I think that it's so shocking that they can do these thing without even getting parent consultation !!!

[cruise4]

Police hold on to DNA records of youngsters

Kate Yates
Worcester News
Tuesday December 11, 2007

THE DNA profiles of 2,805 children under the age of 16 are being stored on a police database.

West Worcestershire's Liberal Democrat parliamentary candidate Richard Burt said he is outraged that the details of so many youngsters in West Mercia - which includes Worcestershire and Hereford-shire are being held.

Mr Burt said if youngsters are not charged with an offence, their details should be removed.

He said: "It's an infringement of anybody's civil liberties to have their DNA captured by the police and kept when they have never been guilty of an offence, and particularly so for children. I think we are moving towards a Big Brother society where the organs of the state collect more and more personal information about citizens in order to control their lives.

(Article continues below)


"Clearly there is a value for using DNA to solve crimes, but what the Government and police need to do is find a more logical way of handling the data that preserves individual freedom."

The figures, which were released following a recent Parliamentary Questions session, show the breakdown profiles held on the national database for police forces.

West Mercia's include 6,156 16 to 18-year-olds, 5,049 19 to 20-year-olds, 24,641 21 to 30-year-olds, 16,201 31 to 40-year-olds, 10,581 41 to 50-year-olds, 4,988 51 to 60-year-olds and 2,485 over the age of 60.

In 2001 new laws enabled police to retain profiles, even if someone is not charged.

Before this, samples had to destroyed if the person concerned was acquitted or charges were dropped.

Worcester MP Mike Foster said: "It's a cheap soundbite from the Liberal Democrats, who clearly still have no concern for the fears of the victims of crime across the county of Worcestershire.

"A quarter of all those arrested are actually aged under 18 and that can include some very serious offences.

"It's not a criminal record, but does enable investigators to access records to solve crimes and I would have thought Richard Burt would applaud that if he was serious about law and order."

DNA details can be taken from anyone arrested for a recordable offence and detained in a police station.

The database is managed by the Forensic Science Service, Birmingham.

A West Mercia spokesperson said: "Under 18s make up 23 per cent of all arrests, and so a comparative proportion of profiles is to be expected. There are no legal powers to take a DNA sample from anyone under 10 without the consent of a parent or legal guardian."

[hagbard_celine]

I will do, thanks for the advice!! they also did a thing with his DNA (spit) last year, but i wasn't that awake to what was going on then. I think that it's so shocking that they can do these thing without even getting parent consultation !!!


Jesus H Corbett!:eek::eek: They haven't done that to my kid yet, but I've told her to be wary of people wanting to stick cotton buds in her mouth etc. I've told her to refuse and tell them to call me if they try.

This has been going on for a long time. A friend of mine wqent on a scholl trip to a police station when she was a child and she volunteered when one of the coppers asked someone to help him demonstrate how they take people's fingerprints. She was never given the card with her prints on it to take home. Then, years later as an adult, she was arrested and the police already had her prints in their records! They'd only kept them during that school trip and opened a file on her!:eek::mad:

[jock1056]

yes.got mine taken in primary school 31 years ago in scotland .Its kind of strange i have been thinking of this for a year or so.

[kiwimaj]

When my daughter was in primary school, I think she was around 6 (she is now 23), she told me of a class trip to a church. We were livid! We also were not informed of this prior to the actual visit, it was kept pretty hush hush..disgraceful !

[quester123]

NEWS SOURCE (http://www.agi.it/italy/news/200807151830-pol-ren0084-art.html)

ROM: CASINI, LET US FINGERPRINT ALL OF OUR CHILDREN


(AGI) - Rome, July 15 - "We oppose the idea of fingerprinting gypsies because it portrays a fierce state that does not protect". Pier Ferdinando Casini, speaking in Parliament for the vote of confidence, is commenting on the possibility of fingerprinting gypsy children. He added the following proposal: "Let us take the fingerprints of all of our children, let us put everyone's fingerprints on their ID papers. That way we will really set an example of equality and transparency".

[hagbard_celine]

NEWS SOURCE (http://www.agi.it/italy/news/200807151830-pol-ren0084-art.html)

ROM: CASINI, LET US FINGERPRINT ALL OF OUR CHILDREN


(AGI) - Rome, July 15 - "We oppose the idea of fingerprinting gypsies because it portrays a fierce state that does not protect". Pier Ferdinando Casini, speaking in Parliament for the vote of confidence, is commenting on the possibility of fingerprinting gypsy children. He added the following proposal: "Let us take the fingerprints of all of our children, let us put everyone's fingerprints on their ID papers. That way we will really set an example of equality and transparency".

That's it! They start with Gypsies and eveyone else goes: "It's OK, we're not Gypsies so it doesn't effect us." But the Gypsies are just a trial scheme. It gives the P'sTB a chance to develop technology and infrastructure, to award contracts and iron out glitches etc. So later on they can expand the scheme to everyone!

As Pastor Neimoller might have said: "First they came for the Gypsies..."

[quester123]

That's it! They start with Gypsies and eveyone else goes: "It's OK, we're not Gypsies so it doesn't effect us." But the Gypsies are just a trial scheme. It gives the P'sTB a chance to develop technology and infrastructure, to award contracts and iron out glitches etc. So later on they can expand the scheme to everyone!

As Pastor Neimoller might have said: "First they came for the Gypsies..."

cheers HC,
They have been exceptionally quick off the mark with this one too.:eek:
Only last Thursday the BBC reported the following:


Italy fingerprint plan criticised (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7476413.stm)

Mr Maroni said Roma children would be fingerprinted to avoid "begging"

Italy's interior minister has sparked criticism with a proposal that would see police fingerprinting all members of the Roma community living in camps.

Roberto Maroni, of the anti-immigrant Northern League, said the move would guarantee that those with the right to stay could live in decent conditions.

Those without that right, including children, would be sent home, he said.

The UN Children's Fund (Unicef) has criticised the proposal, as have opposition MPs.

Mr Maroni said the fingerprinting of Roma - or Gypsy - people would include "children too, to avoid phenomena like begging".

Since Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was returned to power in elections two months ago, his government has focused on law and order, says the BBC's Christian Fraser in Rome.

The blame for the rising crime has fallen on the Roma gypsy community and, in recent weeks, camps have been raided by police while others have been attacked and burnt by vigilante mobs, our correspondent adds.

Stunned and concerned

Opposition MPs said it was wrong to treat children as criminals.


To respect all children's right to equality [Mr Moroni should] record all Italian children in the same way
Vincenzo Spadafora
Unicef Italy

Rosy Bindi, who held the post of family minister in the centre-left government that was ousted in January, said the initiative was "unacceptable".

It would lead to an "ethnic register" that would "treat Roma children as if they were hardened criminals", she said.

The head of Unicef Italy, Vincenzo Spadafora, said his organisation was "stunned and deeply concerned" by the proposal.

"We'd like to suggest to him (Mr Maroni) that to respect all children's right to equality he should record all Italian children in the same way," said Mr Spadafora.

"Roma children are no different from other children. Moreover children cannot and should not be treated as adults."

Meanwhile, Amos Luzzatto, the former president of Italy's Union of Jewish Communities, said the measure was a form of "ethnic surveying".

"You start like this then you move on to the exclusion from schools, separated classes and widespread discrimination," he said.

Recalling how Jews, Roma and other minorities were targeted during Italy's years of fascism, he accused the country of having "lost its memory".

[the itinerant shrubber]

Just get your kids the hell out of school all together. Every week I see another reason to not send my kids to school-fines for taking them out at term time,pointless tests that pigeon-hole them,fingerprinting,prsion like perimeter fencing,not to mention the bullshit that passes for education,the conditioning,the brutalization of the human spirit.All that plus the fucking half-wits that have the nerve to call themselves teachers.

[hagbard_celine]

Just get your kids the hell out of school all together. Every week I see another reason to not send my kids to school-fines for taking them out at term time,pointless tests that pigeon-hole them,fingerprinting,prsion like perimeter fencing,not to mention the bullshit that passes for education,the conditioning,the brutalization of the human spirit.All that plus the fucking half-wits that have the nerve to call themselves teachers.

That's certainly true in some cases, but it's not wise to generalize. I remember from my own school days that school was a mixture. There was the propganda and stuff you mention, but alos some very positive experiences and some important lessons, and I don't mean the 3 R's.

[cacadores]

Legally, the child's consent is enough, they don't need the parent's permission or to even inform you.

''Parents cannot prevent schools from taking their children's fingerprints, according to the Department for Education and Skills and the Information Commissioner.

But parents who have campaigned against school fingerprinting might still be able to bring individual complaints against schools under the Data Protection Act (DPA).

DfES admitted to The Register that schools can fingerprint children without parents' permission''
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/07/kiddyprinting_allowed/

I suggest you take you child, along with two IDs like a passport, along to a solicitor (*I mention a cheaper way below) with a letter you've written, along the lines of:

To WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

I (child's name)............ of (address).................. hereby state that under no circumstances do I or will I agree to having my finger-print or prints taken nor any personal biometric information taken from my body without the written permission of my parents, (names)........................ and that any person trying to obtain this information from me directly will be doing it coersively. This is a statement of my own free will and expresses my own opinion.
Signed................................
Place...........................
Date........................
Signature witnessed and verified this day (date).............. by..............................(solicitor)

You then ask the solicitor to officially VERIFY the signature of the child and to make sure the solicitor's signature and a company stamp appears on the front of the letter itself.
You then ask the solicitor to photocopy the letter a couple of times and to again sign and stamp on each copy to VERIFY that these are true copies of an original which exists. It might cost you 20-40 quid each one.

*Alternatively, if you want a cheaper method, get two non-family witnesses (with no criminal convictions) to sign under the child's signature:
Signature witnessed this day (date).......... by..............................(name).........(ad dress)......................(profession).......... ......(ID, eg Nat. Ins no, passport No.)................ Best would be people with 'good' professions, like the family doctor or another teacher but it's not essential. If you're doing it this way, then get the child and witnesses to sign two or three copies of it.

You then enclose a copy of it with a short covering letter to the school (with the address of the school and date on the letter itself). You should send them registered post, so that the reciever has to sign for it. Alternatively take both papers and another (ordinary) photocopy of each paper (the 'TO WHOM....' and the covering letter and get the headteacher to sign your copies as ''Recieved by....................(name)...................... (date)''.

[clint web]

he went to a church with the school! I knew nothing about a planned church visit

I don't think that is legal - I am about 99 percent sure that visits require a parent to sign a form allowing the child to go - look into that if I were you.

[disorder2k8]

I did get fingerprinted at school too actually and was thinking about it recently.

I must remember not to commit a crime with those hands.

[hagbard_celine]

Legally, the child's consent is enough, they don't need the parent's permission or to even inform you.

''Parents cannot prevent schools from taking their children's fingerprints, according to the Department for Education and Skills and the Information Commissioner.

But parents who have campaigned against school fingerprinting might still be able to bring individual complaints against schools under the Data Protection Act (DPA).

DfES admitted to The Register that schools can fingerprint children without parents' permission''
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/07/kiddyprinting_allowed/

I suggest you take you child, along with two IDs like a passport, along to a solicitor (*I mention a cheaper way below) with a letter you've written, along the lines of:

To WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

I (child's name)............ of (address).................. hereby state that under no circumstances do I or will I agree to having my finger-print or prints taken nor any personal biometric information taken from my body without the written permission of my parents, (names)........................ and that any person trying to obtain this information from me directly will be doing it coersively. This is a statement of my own free will and expresses my own opinion.
Signed................................
Place...........................
Date........................
Signature witnessed and verified this day (date).............. by..............................(solicitor)

You then ask the solicitor to officially VERIFY the signature of the child and to make sure the solicitor's signature and a company stamp appears on the front of the letter itself.
You then ask the solicitor to photocopy the letter a couple of times and to again sign and stamp on each copy to VERIFY that these are true copies of an original which exists. It might cost you 20-40 quid each one.

*Alternatively, if you want a cheaper method, get two non-family witnesses (with no criminal convictions) to sign under the child's signature:
Signature witnessed this day (date).......... by..............................(name).........(ad dress)......................(profession).......... ......(ID, eg Nat. Ins no, passport No.)................ Best would be people with 'good' professions, like the family doctor or another teacher but it's not essential. If you're doing it this way, then get the child and witnesses to sign two or three copies of it.

You then enclose a copy of it with a short covering letter to the school (with the address of the school and date on the letter itself). You should send them registered post, so that the reciever has to sign for it. Alternatively take both papers and another (ordinary) photocopy of each paper (the 'TO WHOM....' and the covering letter and get the headteacher to sign your copies as ''Recieved by....................(name)...................... (date)''.

My own daughter's fingerprints were never taken though. I wrote to the school stating clearly that I withheld consent for it to be done. They didn't reply, but they have never taken her prints. If I thought they were going to try and do it behind my back I'd keep my kid off school!

[carole21]

this and a lot of things that are happening in scools really concerns me and it will get worse with the opening of city accademies and the building schoola ror the future programme in the uk

[hagbard_celine]

this and a lot of things that are happening in scools really concerns me and it will get worse with the opening of city accademies and the building schoola ror the future programme in the uk

This is one of the most sinister actions that is going on!:eek: It's especially bad that it's attacking the young. It's not just the creation of the database that's the problem, it's the psychological implications that bother me the most. It's getting kids used to Big Bro at a very young age. They'll be experiencing these Big Bro activities from the earliest time in their lives so they'll grow up thinking it's normal.

[carole21]

This is one of the most sinister actions that is going on!:eek: It's especially bad that it's attacking the young. It's not just the creation of the database that's the problem, it's the psychological implications that bother me the most. It's getting kids used to Big Bro at a very young age. They'll be experiencing these Big Bro activities from the earliest time in their lives so they'll grow up thinking it's normal.

i so agree with you but kids are not just getting used to big bro but they like the presents he gives ie Id cards, name on data base, medical records at school

[alzee]

That's it! They start with Gypsies and eveyone else goes: "It's OK, we're not Gypsies so it doesn't effect us." But the Gypsies are just a trial scheme. It gives the P'sTB a chance to develop technology and infrastructure, to award contracts and iron out glitches etc. So later on they can expand the scheme to everyone!

As Pastor Neimoller might have said: "First they came for the Gypsies..."

Sorry, slightly OT. Thanks, that led me to the Pastors poem, for the first time. Its an excellent poem which is, of course, completely applicable to the people who frequent this forum.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
First they came for the Socialist
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
First they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[hagbard_celine]

Another thread has been started on this subject:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67229

[veritasvoice]

Maybe you recall the story I posted a few months ago about the kid who got their fingerprints taken as a demonstration during a school trip to a police station. The police kept those prints and opened a file in the kid's name!

Actually, I remember doing that when I was at junior school, and that would have been over 20 years ago. I still remember getting my fingerprints taken - it was made out to be a bit of a laugh at the time; now I'm really not so sure it wasn't contributing to a national database.

[hagbard_celine]

Actually, I remember doing that when I was at junior school, and that would have been over 20 years ago. I still remember getting my fingerprints taken - it was made out to be a bit of a laugh at the time; now I'm really not so sure it wasn't contributing to a national database.

If they took your fingerprints as a fun demonsration then they should not have kept them. I recomend you approach the Criminal Records Bureau to find out. If the police have kept your dabs on their database then sue them!:cool:

Here's the CRB wesite: http://www.crb.gov.uk/

[hagbard_celine]

This story has floated up to the headlines aghain:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69210

Well it's still topical. the schools are still at their dirty tricks with our kids.:mad: If I'd known when Louisa started school what I know now I'd have home-schooled her for sure!:cool::(

[jakemaverick]

didn't school fingerprinting agenda start many years ago? about 2002? not that u would have heard about it in media....

installing multiple cctv cameras in schools and people's home's now......with audio!!!

[hagbard_celine]

didn't school fingerprinting agenda start many years ago? about 2002? not that u would have heard about it in media....

installing multiple cctv cameras in schools and people's home's now......with audio!!!

That was unbelieveable... but predictable:rolleyes:.

[antace000]

If you ask me the whole schools wanting children's finger prints is all part of introducing a cashless society.

Just after last christmas my school (Oasis Academy Wintringham) moved over to a much more 'modern' and 'hi-tech' building than the old one. So being the little 'brainwashers' that she was, the head chose to introduce a new, and supposedly easier way to pay for school lunches. The new method was that once you got your meal/poison on a tray you could pay by simply placing your thumb on a biometric scanning device- the year earlier the company providing the machines took our thumb prints. Unfortunately I was stupid enough to give them it without question. You were assigned a sort of bank account to your thumb print which you could deposit money into via a machine in the canteen.

[hagbard_celine]

If you ask me the whole schools wanting children's finger prints is all part of introducing a cashless society.



I'm sure it is. It's a cultural thing too though. They want to get kids used to the practice of biometric ID from the earliest age so as they grow up it'll become second nature. It won't work so well with us because we remember the world as it used to be before ID; kids won't.

[antace000]

Aye mate, I just hope that they don't try to introduce it into my little brother's school. If they do, I'm certain my parents won't be willing to ask questions, and believe me I have tried to explain to them. They just think I'm paranoid and trying to be rebelious :p

When I go to my school this month to pick up my GCSE results I'm gonna ask what they do with the thumb prints once a student leaves the school.

'Oh Anthony, we erase them from the database of course'

My left arse cheek!

[hagbard_celine]

Aye mate, I just hope that they don't try to introduce it into my little brother's school. If they do, I'm certain my parents won't be willing to ask questions, and believe me I have tried to explain to them. They just think I'm paranoid and trying to be rebelious :p

When I go to my school this month to pick up my GCSE results I'm gonna ask what they do with the thumb prints once a student leaves the school.

'Oh Anthony, we erase them from the database of course'

My left arse cheek!

You bet! A friend of mine went on a school trip to a police station where the coppers did a demonstration by taking her fingerprints for fun. Years later, when she was arrested as an adult, they still had her prints! They'd kept them from that school trip demonstration!:eek::mad: It's highly illegal of course, but since when has things being illegal stopped the Elite? And this was in the pre-biometric days!:(

[antace000]

:eek:

Just goes to show the age that we live in, to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if my prints were floating round in the police database. Not that I'll ever find out, I'm a good boy :D

Remember kids, if somebody asks if you would like to see their Biometric Scanner. JUST SAY NO!

Just knocked up a quick poster to promote my new 'JUST SAY NO' Campain :p

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/KiAdimonkey/Justsaynotofingerprinting.jpg

[jakemaverick]

as for what is euphamistally termed 'cashless society', they're intent on implanting RFID chips into everyone......think i have one but can't be sure as i was unconscious some of the time they were torturing me!!!

seen the new barclaycard advert?

the next stage is to put them into mobile phones next.....so easier when your mobile is also your wallet!!! stupid joe public just laps it up......

[hagbard_celine]

:eek:

Just goes to show the age that we live in, to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if my prints were floating round in the police database. Not that I'll ever find out, I'm a good boy :D

Remember kids, if somebody asks if you would like to see their Biometric Scanner. JUST SAY NO!

Just knocked up a quick poster to promote my new 'JUST SAY NO' Campain :p

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/KiAdimonkey/Justsaynotofingerprinting.jpg

I'd like to see the Grange Hill cast do that!:D

[hagbard_celine]

seen the new barclaycard advert?



Not seen it yet. Is it online?

[hey_jude]

:eek:

Just goes to show the age that we live in, to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if my prints were floating round in the police database. Not that I'll ever find out, I'm a good boy :D

Remember kids, if somebody asks if you would like to see their Biometric Scanner. JUST SAY NO!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif
Just knocked up a quick poster to promote my new 'JUST SAY NO' Campain :p

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/KiAdimonkey/Justsaynotofingerprinting.jpg

Excellent poster antace000 :D

After successfully having my daughters prints taken off the school system (which they took without my consent) my son started grammar school today and he was the only kid to refuse the fingerprint system in a class of 26 :eek: - and for anyone who believes I am brain washing my children... I give them both sides of the coin and they had the final decision - both of my youngsters have decided against it and they won't be vaccinated either!
Free thinkers! :D

[hagbard_celine]

Well done, you!

JUST SAY NO!

Reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCLs0jv_Efk

Shall we do a remake with the theme of fingerprinting instead of drugs?:cool::)