Brainwashing/Subliminal programming/conditioning

[justicerock]

Recently I read several books on Brainwashing / Mind Control and Subliminal Messages and the conclusion after reading these books was that brain washing - mind control and subliminal messages DO NOT WORK.

I think that the closest that anyone got was by using Environmental Conditioning. Examples where this type of thing works are in CULTS, Subcultures and Prison.

Other types of Brain Washing attempts often ended in failure or with the test subject going nuts (which wasnt the intention of the brain washing). These techniques included the use of various drugs i.e. LSD, pot etc.
Sense deprevation, media subliminal programming etc.
(although auto suggestion was relatively successful, although, as with hypnotism, it only got people to do things that they had no problem doing in the first place).

Where many of these brain washing techniques were not successful,
Environmental Conditioning was.

Now, if you look at the world analytically, from a perceptual psychologist perspective, all information received by an individuals senses can be considered as Sense data (and the individuals Environment).

Taking this into consideration, it is easy now to see how a persons environment plays a major role on his/her behaviour.

Now. The Media may not be brain washing, but I would say that they are "brain changing" by supplying an influencial environment that subtly manipulates and changes peoples perceptions.

You may now say that they should stop and that it should be banned.
However, if what I am saying is true, then the media are not the only culpits of manipulating perception, we all are. Anyone with an opinion on anything who interacts with anyone in their environment is guilty of brain changing and that getting away from brain changing is impossible.

However, the good news is that not all brain changing is bad.
Conditioning techniques can be used to make people better people.
Being a good influence so to speak.

The Media for example could be used to seduce people into living in an intelligent, kind, moral, responsible, loving honest way while shunning damaging actions etc.

In essence, Environmental Conditioning is an intrinsic part of being a conscious living being on planet earth. There is no escape.
However, we can change the conditioning for the better by how we interact and influence all that we have access to within our environment.

(After thought. perhaps Mary Whitehouse was right?)

[jconnar]

In essence, Environmental Conditioning is an intrinsic part of being a conscious living being on planet earth. There is no escape.

I'm not so sure. If you are not identified with your EGO then I think there is escape.

I joked before, they can't mind control me if I don't think!

[justicerock]

Hello. Thank you for your reply.
Although I do not believe that you understand completely.

Firstly. EGO is an integral part of being a human being.
Buddhists believe this also. If you exist in human form, you will have an ego. Perhaps not the same size as a meglomaniac DJ or Rockstar, but one nonetheless.

As for not being effected by anyone or anything within your environment.
Well, It is possible that you may have more SELF CONTROL than most,
and you may have a strong WILL which allows you NOT TO GIVE IN TO TEMPTATION.

However, the universe is sensual in nature and as each of us as human beings walk through life, we will be pushed and pulled by emotions and thoughts. Only the most detached and DRUG FREE* will be able to resist the pull of attachment.

*(as although DRUGS can give the illusion of being free of ego and even being enlightened, they do not give the user non attachment. In fact, quiet reverse as the illusion is a drug enduced experience).

Before one can gain this level of control, an idividual must learn the skills of SELF CONTROL and forge an IRON WILL (FUDOSHIN) in order to attain detachment in this way.

In order to gain these attributes, you will need to interact with your environment and be influenced in a good way by reading instructional books, speaking to good teachers and learning to practice accordingly.

Therefore, GOOD brain changing is part of the process to liberation.

There is no way to escape the Matrix of existance's effects.
As all parts work together. The only thing that can be done is to slow its momentum.

[justicerock]

Here is a quick question for you, if you believe that you are not effected by conditioning.

Who did you want to win the last UK election and why (what was your decision based on? What substance is their to your argument?)

Did you back the majority and vote for Cameron because Gordon Brown was a useless Mr. Bean looking caractor who obviously knew nothing, or did you back Brown because he was trying to make the UK a fairer place to live?

On the run up to the election, I read several of the daily papers daily and took note of events marking any notable event that took place.

What I noticed is how the UK press manipulated the public's perception of the people involved using bullying smear campaigns in order to assassinate Gordon Brown. Almost in every case there was no argument, just nasty bullying statements which really had no place in UK politics.

These bullying statements are what I believe manipulated the UK public's perception on the people involved and was the main factor that influenced who they voted for.

In essence, people didn't vote for the person with the best policy.
They voted for the person who they had been manipulated into believing was the best person to vote for based on the bullying of his opposition.

Now, many of the people who voted are paying for it.

[justicerock]

I'm not so sure. If you are not identified with your EGO then I think there is escape.

I joked before, they can't mind control me if I don't think!

Sorry. please dont think I am picking on you. I am just trying to explain myself.

In short. If you are a human being then you have EGO.

[jconnar]

Hello. Thank you for your reply.
Although I do not believe that you understand completely.

Firstly. EGO is an integral part of being a human being.
Buddhists believe this also.


Yes I believe we can only function and experience properly in this material realm with the EGO. The EGO was constructed for this purpose. However at some point during early childhood, we became completely identified with thinking. We fell out of the Garden of Eden and into duality, we were cast out of heaven for being prideful and arrogant and this was the fall.

If you think you are the EGO and thinking/thoughts, then yes, you would need an exceptionally strong will and self control. You would need to attack thoughts with thoughts.

But I tell you that this self control is made easy when you transcend the EGO/MIND and identify with the Holy Spirit that resides in everyone. As the perspective changes from that of EGO to Spirit, the EGO which always thought it was in charge starts to flap around, it gradually loses speed and comes to a stop. This is to stop the wheel of karma turning. You stop the mind dead so that the only thoughts that arise from it are completely conscious.

You watch the thoughts and realize that thoughts are mental construct/concepts. Even the thought "I" is a mental construct and is transient and not real. This detonates the EGO and brings it back under control. The problem is, people can't bear the thought of "I", the most personal thought, to be seen as not real. If "I" is not real, then they experience great fear that they will disappear and cease to exist. But I say, you were there before "I", I is language which was learnt after birth.

I wonder how many people actually follow me here.

[jconnar]

Here is a quick question for you, if you believe that you are not effected by conditioning.

Who did you want to win the last UK election and why (what was your decision based on? What substance is their to your argument?)


Sorry I don't live in the UK.

You are right though. Everyone has an EGO, without one we wouldn't be able to function. Its the EGO that makes us human.

However, its disidentifying with the EGO that is the key, then it loses power over you so you don't have to always fight it. Totally disidentifying allows the real self to become in complete control and not be dominated by the EGO.

Enlightenment is the merging of the Conscious Mind and the Subconscious Mind into one from what I have read.

I see it as the only way to escape the mental matrix we live in. Buddha did it and he was on the other side looking in laughing.


So to sum it up, the EGO is mental programing. Its a matter of perspective which can only come with direct experience. Do you see yourself as being your thoughts? If you are your thoughts, then are you a mental programing? If you are a mental program then you will be at the mercy of other mental programs.

Are you that which came before mental programs? If so and you can truly see this, then you can watch the mental programs and be a step away from them, without them being in control of you.

This is the Mystery Schools motto "KNOW THYSELF" or "KNOW THE SELF"

It can only come through introspection.

I don't claim to be enlightened or a realized being, but I have had insights and have experienced this oneness state numerous times and I can tell you that it is the most beautiful state, complete detachment like you are watching a movie. I want to share these experiences with people on this site as I know a lot of people on here are suffering badly.

[likespiders]

Sorry I don't live in the UK.

You are right though. Everyone has an EGO, without one we wouldn't be able to function. Its the EGO that makes us human.

However, its disidentifying with the EGO that is the key, then it loses power over you so you don't have to always fight it. Totally disidentifying allows the real self to become in complete control and not be dominated by the EGO.

Enlightenment is the merging of the Conscious Mind and the Subconscious Mind into one from what I have read.

I see it as the only way to escape the mental matrix we live in. Buddha did it and he was on the other side looking in laughing.


So to sum it up, the EGO is mental programing. Its a matter of perspective which can only come with direct experience. Do you see yourself as being your thoughts? If you are your thoughts, then are you a mental programing? If you are a mental program then you will be at the mercy of other mental programs.

Are you that which came before mental programs? If so and you can truly see this, then you can watch the mental programs and be a step away from them, without them being in control of you.

This is the Mystery Schools motto "KNOW THYSELF" or "KNOW THE SELF"

It can only come through introspection.

I don't claim to be enlightened or a realized being, but I have had insights and have experienced this oneness state numerous times and I can tell you that it is the most beautiful state, complete detachment like you are watching a movie. I want to share these experiences with people on this site as I know a lot of people on here are suffering badly.

i live in the middle of nowhere. i see maybe 5 people a week, but still it's wishful thinking to think i have less of an ego because of it.
but then again that statement seems a little egoless.

This site is the closest i've come to casual human contact since last November
maybe i can feel my ego growing as i type:confused:

[jconnar]

i live in the middle of nowhere. i see maybe 5 people a week, but still it's wishful thinking to think i have less of an ego because of it.
but then again that statement seems a little egoless.

This site is the closest i've come to casual human contact since last November
maybe i can feel my ego growing as i type:confused:

The best thing is to ask 'what is I'.

This helped a lot.


http://youtu.be/HjDyPJZ_RNM

[caleb1234]

Recently I read several books on Brainwashing / Mind Control and Subliminal Messages and the conclusion after reading these books was that brain washing - mind control and subliminal messages DO NOT WORK.


I've custom made subliminals mp3s for myself and it helped me emotionaly.

I believe it's a matter of putting the right suggestion affirmations that my mind
can understand and I need to know what the word's i'm using means.

[thetonic]

Recently I read several books on Brainwashing / Mind Control and Subliminal Messages and the conclusion after reading these books was that brain washing - mind control and subliminal messages DO NOT WORK.


You are so utterly wrong and misguided from the outset that its hard for me to even humor the rest of your post.

I wish you were right, but the sad truth is that subliminals work like a charm and they are used on us everday / all day.

Until you come to the awareness and truth, it is a pointless debate so I will step out of the thread and leave you to do a good deal more research and self reflection

[kozmik]

You are so utterly wrong and misguided from the outset that its hard for me to even humor the rest of your post.

I wish you were right, but the sad truth is that subliminals work like a charm and they are used on us everday / all day.

Until you come to the awareness and truth, it is a pointless debate so I will step out of the thread and leave you to do a good deal more research and self reflection

I quite agree

[deca]

again once you learn/informed about subliminal`s and there use then they probably have little effect on you, probably have the adverse effect ...putting you off doing what they suggest(again this could be used to manipulate you )
think advertisers realised that a number of people would not buy stuff because they were advertised , so started making "anti adverts(adverts that knocked themselves) adverts to play into the mind set of these people....the ads that knock others advert claims...then say there product no nonsense does what it says

again I think all the symbolism seen in the media is intended to be seen these days...its a selling point/marketing trick , rather than some hidden secret knowledge ....again most people see it these days, does not mean you are awake because you spot some entertainer has big triangle on there T-shirt and makes a hand gesture:rolleyes:

again its like "bling" has been changed to occult symbolism to create a mystique or they have something you don`t....

The Cult of Mac - Belonging Through Branding
The Cult of Mac - Belonging Through Branding - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJ6Wzmr_V0&feature=related

people that are really in these occults are laughing at you when you lot think that you spot these symbolism and come up with your exposing of it...in fact they can do stuff in plain view and get away with it ...must be a right laugh to them when they meet up at there secret meetings