View Full Version : Maps: how did they come into existence
I always wondered how the maps could have been made in the earlier times. how did they know what shape was america, africa or europe. what technology did they use to plot the continents, countries, mountain ranges and even the rivers. every culture had drew maps for themselves. of course some maps before the 15th century depict the world as flat but they still did a fairly good job of representing the countries shapes and sizes. there are other maps which haven even represented antarctica with its mountain, rivers and coast lines.some of the interesting maps like PIRI REIS world map depicting the western coast of africa, eastern coast of south america and northern west of antarctica. this map was made in 1513 AD but antarctica was discovered only in 1818 AD. The Orenteus Finaeus map of 1531 also shows antarctica with ice free coast lines and mountain ranges. similarly Philip Bauche of france made a similar map of antarctica long before it was even discovered. did they use some earlier sources of maps from other civilizations or with the help of some advanced unknown civilization? i think yes.
hagbard_celine
31-12-2007, 09:51 AM
I always wondered how the maps could have been made in the earlier times. how did they know what shape was america, africa or europe. what technology did they use to plot the continents, countries, mountain ranges and even the rivers. every culture had drew maps for themselves. of course some maps before the 15th century depict the world as flat but they still did a fairly good job of representing the countries shapes and sizes. there are other maps which haven even represented antarctica with its mountain, rivers and coast lines.some of the interesting maps like PIRI REIS world map depicting the western coast of africa, eastern coast of south america and northern west of antarctica. this map was made in 1513 AD but antarctica was discovered only in 1818 AD. The Orenteus Finaeus map of 1531 also shows antarctica with ice free coast lines and mountain ranges. similarly Philip Bauche of france made a similar map of antarctica long before it was even discovered. did they use some earlier sources of maps from other civilizations or with the help of some advanced unknown civilization? i think yes.
You'd like Graham Hancock's book Underworld.
Old maps show lots of things on them that we know existed during the last ice age when the sea was smaller and lower. Cartography has always been quite an esoteric skill. Did you know that in many societies, drawing a map was illegal, unless you were an approved state cartographer. When Vasco de Gama landed in India he had anyone caught drawing their own maps publically flogged. If you were caught smuggling one out of India you could be executed!
Map makers of old used to insert deliberate errors into their maps too, to mislead rival explorers who had their beady eyes on the riches of foreign colonies. Some of de Gama's maps of India leave a lot of things out and also put some things in the wrong place too badly to have been an accidental mistake. I wonder if modern map-makers do the same...:confused:;)
kblood
31-12-2007, 11:11 AM
There is history about mapmaking. People like Columbus used to make maps bu sailing to places, like the south pole and india to draw maps, and they did this from their ships with help from the stars and special tools, like a kind of specialised looking glass I think, or telescope, not sure what it was called back then.
hagbard_celine
01-01-2008, 11:15 AM
There is history about mapmaking. People like Columbus used to make maps bu sailing to places, like the south pole and india to draw maps, and they did this from their ships with help from the stars and special tools, like a kind of specialised looking glass I think, or telescope, not sure what it was called back then.
Cartograhpy has always been a bit of a enigmatic skill; almost an occult art. It's been the domain of a handful of closed-shop experts employed by kings and premiers. There is a strong link between Cartography and the mystery schools, hense the knowlege of ice age lands and seas.
I always wondered how the maps could have been made in the earlier times...
You need to read this (http://books.google.com/books?id=5iLG2D5eBswC&dq=maps+of+the+ancient+sea+kings+ac) book.
http://www.cafes.net/ditch/hapgood79.jpg
You'd like Graham Hancock's book Underworld.
Old maps show lots of things on them that we know existed during the last ice age when the sea was smaller and lower. Cartography has always been quite an esoteric skill. Did you know that in many societies, drawing a map was illegal, unless you were an approved state cartographer. When Vasco de Gama landed in India he had anyone caught drawing their own maps publically flogged. If you were caught smuggling one out of India you could be executed!
Map makers of old used to insert deliberate errors into their maps too, to mislead rival explorers who had their beady eyes on the riches of foreign colonies. Some of de Gama's maps of India leave a lot of things out and also put some things in the wrong place too badly to have been an accidental mistake. I wonder if modern map-makers do the same...:confused:;)
drawing a map as illegal, wow thats interesting to know. also about vasco de gamas map controlling thing. i remember once in school days i asked the teacher how the maps were made but i got no answer. cartography as you have said im sure is an esoteric knowledge. and thanks for grahams book you mentioned.
You need to read this (http://books.google.com/books?id=5iLG2D5eBswC&dq=maps+of+the+ancient+sea+kings+ac) book.
http://www.cafes.net/ditch/hapgood79.jpg
great find "them" mind blowing stuff. thanks for the direction.
hagbard_celine
03-01-2008, 10:50 PM
drawing a map as illegal, wow thats interesting to know. also about vasco de gamas map controlling thing. i remember once in school days i asked the teacher how the maps were made but i got no answer. cartography as you have said im sure is an esoteric knowledge. and thanks for grahams book you mentioned.
you won;t get an answer from school, because you get the impression, I did anyway, that maps are like photographs. they simply reproduce what is actually there, although we're never told how. It's all a lie. the art of cartography is cartographer's magic! Maps DO NOT just reporduce what is there. they are as much a subjective image of the world as a painting by Piccasso.
(Sorry about the typoes, I'm drunk)
the art of cartography is cartographer's magic! Maps DO NOT just reporduce what is there. they are as much a subjective image of the world as a painting by Piccasso.
well said:)
pri01
04-01-2008, 07:03 PM
you won;t get an answer from school, because you get the impression, I did anyway, that maps are like photographs. they simply reproduce what is actually there, although we're never told how. It's all a lie. the art of cartography is cartographer's magic! Maps DO NOT just reporduce what is there. they are as much a subjective image of the world as a painting by Piccasso.
(Sorry about the typoes, I'm drunk)
Absolutely, although I think that they have purposely created the elusion of uniformity. When the map of the world is presented as below, it appears to be set out absolutely so. If it were a human torso, london and the GMT line is dead centre, at the place where a heart would be.
1541
hagbard_celine
05-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Absolutely, although I think that they have purposely created the elusion of uniformity. When the map of the world is presented as below, it appears to be set out absolutely so. If it were a human torso, london and the GMT line is dead centre, at the place where a heart would be.
1541
Questions arise:
Why is north at the top? Why is Greewich the prime meridian? Who told us that the Earth is this shape and size?
I have proof that maps are still faked. I'll post a link to the thread.
hagbard_celine
05-01-2008, 11:32 PM
Here it is: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6102&highlight=ordinance+survey
The bit where I discuss modern fake maps is on page 11.
Questions arise:
Why is north at the top? Why is Greewich the prime meridian? Who told us that the Earth is this shape and size?
I have proof that maps are still faked. I'll post a link to the thread.
Prime meridian is an IMAGINARY LINE drawn from the north pole to the south pole passing through the royal observatory at Greenwich, London. why only greenwich why not any other place. if it would have been some other place then the current latitude and longitude locations would be different.
hagbard_celine
07-01-2008, 10:45 PM
Prime meridian is an IMAGINARY LINE drawn from the north pole to the south pole passing through the royal observatory at Greenwich, London. why only greenwich why not any other place.
Because of the jolly old Bwitish Empire!
seer74
08-01-2008, 12:06 AM
the existance of maps such as the Piri Reiss are to me further verification that somebody way longer ago than we are told was travelling around the world. most likely the people who started the secret societys that kept the secret knowledge untill the time of the "explorers" who, in reality knew exactly where they were going, includeing such con-men as "columbus" who continued to obscure the truth by pretending to think he was in India, and Cortez, who knew damn well the aztecs were going to think he was Qetzalcotl.
the existance of maps such as the Piri Reiss are to me further verification that somebody way longer ago than we are told was travelling around the world.
me too thinks the same....who ever it was had highly advanced equipments to create the maps. even the longitudes and latitudes were depicted on these maps..which in our time had been made in only when the sea travellers needed for travelling.
hagbard_celine
09-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Question:
Where do forum members think the Prime Meridian should be?
Rand Flem-Ath suggests the Giza site because it's non-partisan, an ancient sacred location and it also divides the world into two equal halves of land and sea area (It actualy also divides it into equal quarters if you use the equator at that longditude). It's kind of the centre of gravity of the planet.
On an episode of Q.I. Stephen Fry said the word map comes from the Latin word mapamundi(sp?), which means napkin. This is because the first maps were drawn on napkins.
shellygurrrl
16-01-2008, 11:05 PM
I've often wondered myself whether maps were fake, or whether some of the world's cities and lands really are there, or are there as we're told.
hagbard_celine
17-01-2008, 02:32 PM
I've often wondered myself whether maps were fake, or whether some of the world's cities and lands really are there, or are there as we're told.
I wonder that too. It's an assumption that maps portray the world as it really is, as if they were photographs! But maps are produced by scientific and political authorities and have always been part of a closed profession. See what I wrote above about what happens to ordinary people who try to draw maps! In the link I poted you can see that I've found PROOF that at least some things on modern maps are faked!
rasnalgoul
20-01-2008, 07:22 PM
Ive been wondering lately, hence being drawn to this thread, much along the same lines as some of you people as to whether maps, ancient, modern, whatever really represent the earth in its entirety. Ive been thinking lately whether or not there are masses of land which are either mistakenly or much more likely purposely misportrayed as being larger or smaller. Im not so sure exactly that their arent entire land masses that arent portrayed on the in maps. What about things such as the bermuda triangle and people getting lost. Its always some explanation but who is not to say that people arent just flying into uncharted territory becoming baffled because they should be somewhere else according to maps. How do we know the earth isnt bigger or smaller than is being portrayed to us on maps? I truly wonder sometimes.
hagbard_celine
21-01-2008, 01:11 PM
Ive been wondering lately, hence being drawn to this thread, much along the same lines as some of you people as to whether maps, ancient, modern, whatever really represent the earth in its entirety. Ive been thinking lately whether or not there are masses of land which are either mistakenly or much more likely purposely misportrayed as being larger or smaller. Im not so sure exactly that their arent entire land masses that arent portrayed on the in maps. What about things such as the bermuda triangle and people getting lost. Its always some explanation but who is not to say that people arent just flying into uncharted territory becoming baffled because they should be somewhere else according to maps. How do we know the earth isnt bigger or smaller than is being portrayed to us on maps? I truly wonder sometimes.
Maybe Atlantis is still above water, but its simply omitted from the maps, like that Explosives Handling Wharf, but on a much larger scale.
rasnalgoul
21-01-2008, 07:15 PM
totally, I mean how can we possibly know unless we go there or we fly up in our own spaceships and take a look for ourselves.
swiftlouie143
22-01-2008, 03:34 PM
Try this video:
Object moved
Says they started there civilaztion in and around modern day Australia (p.s. I dont know about the last part of this video where he says Noah plegde alliance to a reptilain)
check this out as well..
The True Origins of Human History - Part 1 - YouTube (part 1 of 6)
(this guy sounds like a luciferian.. but take it as you will :)
grandw
29-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Where do forum members think the Prime Meridian should be?
You can find one in Paris Meridian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
From the Link:
Actually the idea of establishing a prime meridian dates back to antiquity, with suggested meridians running through Rhodes or the Canary Islands. When Greenwich was adopted as the universal zero longitude in 1884 (not 1888 as the novel says), it had at least nine rivals besides Paris (Berlin, Cadiz, Copenhagen, Lisbon, Rio, Rome, St. Petersburg, Stockholm, and Tokyo). ;-)
hagbard_celine
29-01-2008, 11:18 AM
You can find one in Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Meridian).
From the Link:
;-)
That's the one in the DaVinci Code.
grandw
29-01-2008, 03:02 PM
Yes, i was originally thinking about Umberto Ecoīs "Foucault's Pendulum", but i seem to have confused something, maybe its in there too.
hagbard_celine
01-02-2008, 11:02 PM
Yes, i was originally thinking about Umberto Ecoīs "Foucault's Pendulum", but i seem to have confused something, maybe its in there too.
Foucault's Pendulum is a brilliant book, even though it takes the piss out of "loonies" like me!
pri01
06-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Maybe Atlantis is still above water, but its simply omitted from the maps, like that Explosives Handling Wharf, but on a much larger scale.
I often thought that we were being duped with the world map, where they show the land mass on a flat surface showing definate West and East. London and GMT is always slap beng centre, right at the heart of this visual map. Every part of the land mass fits perfectly, as if it were deliberately placed there. To me, it's too uniform.
However, as I fly a lot I remember flying home from Red Sea resort in Egypt and the flight went over Alexandria. I double checked the location on the map I had and I could clearly make out the shape and location. It was night time and the place was well lit up.
With this in mind, unless there are restrictions over the Atlantic, wouldn't many pilots see if Atlantis was still above water?
hagbard_celine
08-02-2008, 10:50 AM
I often thought that we were being duped with the world map, where they show the land mass on a flat surface showing definate West and East. London and GMT is always slap beng centre, right at the heart of this visual map. Every part of the land mass fits perfectly, as if it were deliberately placed there. To me, it's too uniform.
However, as I fly a lot I remember flying home from Red Sea resort in Egypt and the flight went over Alexandria. I double checked the location on the map I had and I could clearly make out the shape and location. It was night time and the place was well lit up.
With this in mind, unless there are restrictions over the Atlantic, wouldn't many pilots see if Atlantis was still above water?
It depends on where they were flying. Air routes can be adapted to avoid certain places. It's a larger version of the "no-fly zone" over Area 51. With the introduction of GPS navigation on aircraft it is very easy today. Besides, we're very good at seeing only what we expect to see. If you flew over something that shouldn't be there, wouldn't it be easier to forget it? Especially given how fragile an airline pilots career is. Imagine you started shouting that you'd seen a continent in the middle of open ocean! Your bosses would assume you either got lost or were barking mad. Not responsible enough to look after a plane full of passengers. You'd lose your wings for sure!
The map you refer to is a Mercator projection. It's a flat map with all the features linked up to their positions on a grid made up of the unwrapped and flattened spherical grid of the Globe projection. This means that he closer to the poles you go the bigger things look. At the poles themselves, the features should effectively be as big as the whole width of the map! This is why Mercator maps are always oblong not square; they tend not to show features above the 70th or 80th parallel. It was drawn out of necessity because flat maps are eaier to carry round that globes. but it is a compelely distorted image of what the Earth is really like. You pointed out how maps have the prime meridian through Greenwich even today. it shows how political maps are.
Also why do maps have the north upwards? In space there is no up or down so it would be equally valid to have the south upwards. I saw a map on the wall of a "Bar Oz" theme pub once which was a Mercator projection with the south at the top and north at the bottom. It was made by an Australian who was fed up of his country being at the bottom and that it represented the domination of the north over the south. Here's one: http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/
hagbard_celine
17-02-2008, 11:27 AM
Have you ever heard of, or even seen, Brigadoon? It's a famous stage musical about a Scottish village that disappears and is later stumbled upon by two Americans on holiday. The story is based in a German folk tale about a similar village. Strangly enough I saw an example in a book one of a place in Germany, on the Baltic coast near Denmark, that is present on one map and not on another:eek: You see cartograthers lie; they can and they do.
grandw
05-03-2008, 07:16 AM
I believe antique maps had east on top. Direction of the sunrise was the main point of orientation before invention of the compass.
I donīt have an idea when they changed it or why..
This one is quite interesting:
http://img.xrmb2.net/images/870319.jpeg
It can be found here:
Ebstorfer Weltkarte â Wikipedia (sorry, but the link is german)
But it shows very nicely: East on top and Jesus representig the sun. :)
lumukanda
05-03-2008, 07:25 AM
Question:
Where do forum members think the Prime Meridian should be?
Rand Flem-Ath suggests the Giza site because it's non-partisan, an ancient sacred location and it also divides the world into two equal halves of land and sea area (It actualy also divides it into equal quarters if you use the equator at that longditude). It's kind of the centre of gravity of the planet.
yep, it's called the nilotic meridian, and in southern africa it's called the underground river, lulungwa mangakatsi :
lulngwa mangakatsi is also called the underground river that holds africa together. the nilotic meridian, which is 31 degrees 14 minutes longitude, starts at the nile delta, and one can follow the nile down and it's source is also found on this line. follow the line further down and you will find great zimbabwe, follow it down even further you find timbavati and finally at the end of this line, the city of durban in zululand, originally given to the british by the notorious zulu chief Shaka.
read about it here : http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101&highlight=nilotic+meridian
hagbard_celine
05-03-2008, 05:53 PM
I believe antique maps had east on top. Direction of the sunrise was the main point of orientation before invention of the compass.
I donīt have an idea when they changed it or why..
This one is quite interesting:
http://img.xrmb2.net/images/870319.jpeg
It can be found here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebstorfer_Weltkarte (sorry, but the link is german)
But it shows very nicely: East on top and Jesus representig the sun. :)
The very word "orientation" means "facing east".
It was changed to north-upwards because of the dominence of the northern hemisphere continents over the south. Many have objected to this, especially in Australia. In some Bar Oz theme-pubs you'll find this map on the wall: http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/ I think it's worth asking whether we should reconsider this, seeing as we're in the post-colonial age.
grandw
06-03-2008, 06:07 PM
The very word "orientation" means "facing east".
True, as you say it, now i can see the "orient" in the word :D.
I think it's worth asking whether we should reconsider this, seeing as we're in the post-colonial age.
If someone feels really bothered, why not, on the other side some kind of "international standard" isnīt that bad and in times of google earth everyone can turn it as he wants ;).
hagbard_celine
08-03-2008, 10:43 AM
If someone feels really bothered, why not, on the other side some kind of "international standard" isnīt that bad and in times of google earth everyone can turn it as he wants ;).
Well I guess whatever we do someone is inevitably going to be offended because maps have to be one way up or another!
:D