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luciferhorus
25-04-2011, 08:00 AM
I have had this post removed from ATS on two occasions from my thread On the "King of all the World (Hiram Abiff);" the Masonic Messiah & other Masonic Conspiracies, on: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread690717/pg2#pid11165190 I am reposting my third edited attempt to post this here for reference.


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg12#pid10838047)

None of these hazing activities is done in Masonry.

OK well I will try to devote the rest of this response to establishing that this is a false statement which if given in court would be tantamount to perjury.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by epicfail (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg12#pid10864201)
[more]

With some anti-Masons irrational hatred, I do sometimes think its a conspiracy to tear us down, and to spread fear and lies.

I would put it to you that it is you yourself who is making deceptive statements, and I will seek to offer evidence of this.

I'm still curious to how he was the only one who testified, but yet no one supported his claims of abuse. Strange.


You are referring to the Michael Vaughn court case here and since we cannot interview such persons, we can only speculate. Americans seem to have a different sense of humour than we Europeans, but I found the articles to be hilarious; they would make a perfect Monty Python sketch. My own speculation would be that since Americans are stricken with the disease of "litigation mania" and lawyers are often referred to, for good reason, as "ambulance chasers," people sue each other for the most trivial of reasons, just to make money.

Three points (two are speculations, one is based on empirical evidence)

1: If Michael Vaughn's testimony was perjurous and no such BDSM style hazing rituals took place, it would be a simple matter to prove this, since there were allegedly 40 other candidates present. All that the defence lawyer would have to do is to call them as witnesses, one by one, to establish the perjury of the litigant. This did not occur and his testimony of what happened was not subject to doubt, denied or refuted

2: Vaughn's claim that the experience had made him psychologically disabled, I found to be ridiculous and since our psychological state is a "subjective" condition, it would have been virtually impossible to prove or disprove; I consider this court case to be just a phenomenon of litigation mania; he was trying to get some money from a very wealthy religious cult, which is the world's wealtheist non religious charity; however this is an entirely separate matter to the allegation of Vaughn bearing "false witness" under oath regarding the BDSM rituals which took place in the presence of numerous witnesses, since perjury would have been very easy to establish and the defence attorney would probably have torn him pieces on this matter.

3: Would-Be Shriner Says He Was Subjected to Painful Initiation Rites
The Associated Press
November 20, 1991

LEXINGTON, Ky. - Michael G. Vaughan says he went to the Shrine temple to learn the secrets of the universe. What he learned, he says, is that the Shrine's initiation rites involve electric shocks and the humiliation of having one's underwear filled with strawberries and whipped cream......

[b]A court-ordered videotape of the temple's initiation devices confirmed much of Vaughan's story, including the existence of the electrified bench and mat[b]

So A: the court found evidence of an electric bench:

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b17beb28a453.jpg

...and B: the court found evidence of an electrified mat which the litigant stated he had to walk across while holding hands with other initiates.

I am wondering if you can find any claims within the last 20 years though.

Allegations

OK; well there are numerous "allegations" regarding Masonic cultists, from using charity funds to pay for sex tourism, to allegations of hazing rituals, the sexual nature of Masonic events, their role as a gang of gangster Capitalists in the state terrorist, narco-terrorist establishment, loan sharking, and a whole plethora of allegations made by Stephen Knight in "Inside the Brotherhood" and in Martin Short's "The Brotherhood," such as corruption within the police and judiciary, collecting protection money from (London) brothels; bid rigging on construction projects, Masonic arm's manufacturers using Masonic government employees to defraud the government by accepting invoices for non existent work; Masonic law firms defrauding clients by accepting bribes from Masonic insurance companies whom their clients were suing and so forth, but all such allegations probably require their own thread and I am not going to restate the entirety of Knight and Short's allegations in a single post.

So...the let's just stick to the BDSM rituals, hazings and sex allegations specifically with regards to American Masonry.

Example one (1991), as previously stated:

[i]Would-Be Shriner Says He Was Subjected to Painful Initiation Rites
The Associated Press
November 20, 1991

LEXINGTON, Ky. - Michael G. Vaughan says he went to the Shrine temple to learn the secrets of the universe. What he learned, he says, is that the Shrine's initiation rites involve electric shocks and the humiliation of having one's underwear filled with strawberries and whipped cream......

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/shriners.html (http://)



Example 2; dated Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 (Sam Huston)



I’m a Shriner in Texas. I have been a Shriner for many, many years. I am also a Jester in the Royal Order of Jesters within the Shrine......

During the initiation of new Jesters I was offered the opportunity by another fellow brother to sleep with a whore,...... This did not stop at initiation. These were a constant occurrence at our Jester functions and they are a common occurrence today. The initiation practices have not changed as well. Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.

Oral sex competitions between brothers were considered “fun” activities to build a strong brotherhood bond between members of the Royal Order of Jesters. Potentates and Chaplains, Attorneys and Judges, Past Masters and brothers all participating or watching with open eyes, but closed minds. I often felt ashamed of what I was doing, but the pleasure outweighed the guilt. I had fallen within a deep hole and my cable-tow had been severed

http://freemasonrywatch.org/exjesters.confirm.sam.houston.email.html



Example 3 (2008):


Jester Confesses to Wife He Organized Prostitutes

Mon Aug 25, 2008

..........When I confronted him, he explained to me how it works. The Jesters have a “pool” of girls. Certain men have their favorites and make requests to have them at the books. It is up to each court's Director to assign the job of inviting the girls, a number based of the number of attendees. In this case, eight girls were invited for between 180-200 men. He says that only about 20% of the men use the girls, but a friend said it's more like 70%
.............

.......Off duty cops act as guards for the secure floors...

(1) According to court documents, the U.S. Attorney's office describes the Royal Order of Jesters as:

This organization maintained chapters throughout the United States, including in Western New York, and it was the custom of these chapters to host periodic meetings, usually on weekends, for their members. At most of these meetings, some members of the organization would be tasked to arrange for the presence of women at the meetings, for the specific purpose of utilizing the women to engage in sexual intercourse and other sexual activity with the organization's members in exchange for money."

...........http://sandyfrost.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/25/1784263-jester-confesses-to-wife-he-organized-prostitutes."


Example 4 (2008)

the story from last May about Jesters' "fishing trips" to Brazil that involved at least 19 members and hookers as young as 13."

"The first deposition, 61 pages, was provided by Adilson Garcia da Silva on Sunday, April 13, 2008. He describes how he became a fishing guide, his work history, how marijuana was allegedly obtained for the plaintiffs' clients then began describing how girls, from age 13 on up, were lured into prostitution from Brazilian Indian reservations for the fishing trips' clients. The girls, he said, were hired to provide 'programs' that consisted of 'oral sex, strip and dance contests.'

Question: What is the youngest age that you’re aware of a girl being on the boat as a prostitute?

Answer: My brother would pick up a group of girls in Autazes and would take by boat to an American. One was 13, one was 14, and there was one who was even 9 years old.

......
investigation has grown from dryly describing numbers on non profit tax returns to exposing the Shriners' dirty-little-secret sub-group, the Royal Order of Jesters and their prostitution scandals.

It's been kind of shocking to discover that this American icon has been "misleading the public for years" and then come to find out that some of these Shriner/Jesters have committed sex crimes under the guise of being a non profit group.

You know.

Prostitution at tax payer expense.

Tax returns show that Jesters national spent over $570,000 on one weekend bash.

That's about $11,000 an hour.

http://sandyfrost.newsvine.com/_news/2008/12/07/2188846-jester-prostitution-updates-stebick-sentenced



:Example 5. Unfortunately the Masonic apologist and site owner of freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com seems to have deleted his site and so I cannot date this, but as I recall from memory it is contemporary.

“I quit the Jesters more than 20 years ago, and this kind of thing has been going on at least 40 or 50 years,” said Malcolm “Mutt” Herring, 90, of Montgomery, Ala. “I quit because I don’t drink, and I don’t mess around with other women, other than my wife. Going to one of their events was like going to a whorehouse.”

"...........to claim that the ROJ doesn't know about this stuff on a widespread basis is sheer nonsense. "

http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2009/05/federal-probe-of-jesters-expands.html (Masonic Internet site no longer exists)



Example 6: 2008

ex]

Sunday, March 30, 2008
The Trouble With Jesters

http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2008/03/trouble-with-jesters.html (Masonic Internet site no longer exists)

There has been much "who-shot-john" going on over at The Burning Taper for the last few weeks over the reporting of scandals involving the Shrine's Royal Order of Jesters. The Jesters are an invitation-only group within Shrinedom whose motto is "mirth is king," and is considered by some to be an inner circle within the organization. I'll leave you to discover the BTs blog entries on your own for the details, but there are at least two major investigations going on concerning the group involving prostitution and violation of the federal Mann Act.

On the one hand, for anyone to say they are shocked - shocked! - to discover Shriners having anything to do with prostitutes is intellectually disingenuous. Shriners, strippers and hookers have been keeping each other company for over a century.

And while some of us can sit in the parlor and tsk over it being antithetical to the tenets of Freemasonry (which it is), the Babbitry of the past, combined with the Shrine's post-WWII excesses, has been institutionalized by both the Shrine and the public's perception. Lest anyone forget George Carlin's punctuating 1976 punch line, "Drink up, Shriners." Or 1960's "Bye Bye Birdie's" musical number in which a group of Shriners think a young lady straying into their dinner is the stripper for the evening.

There is no wonder that a certain percentage of men who join the Shrine have specifically come looking for the Shrine they've heard about. They are looking for the secret society that has the strippers and the hookers and the county sheriff guarding the door who sees they get home okay.

Not all men join the Shrine out of the altruism of helping crippled kids. I actually had a man try to sell me on Shrine membership by saying, "You can drink all night for five bucks, and besides, we un-f***-up the crippled kids!"

Something slightly less than the Masonic ideal.

After the Shrine parade in Salt Lake City on St. Patrick's day, about a dozen of us fez-wearing loud-mouths (all perfectly sober, I might add) drove to the suburbs to get their 1939 Yellowstone tour bus weighed at the local truck stop. Some Shrines get drunk and bring in the strippers. Salt Lake City guys get their bus weighed. It was bitter cold, and we drove through town acting like, well, Shriners, with the top down, yelling what we thought were zingers to pedestrians, and generally lowering the property values. You know, the stuff guys generally do as teenagers, and living up to the mission of putting some of the boy back into the man. At the truck stop, I had one of those defining moments, curiously. A man perhaps in his twenties came out and said he wanted to shake the hand of every Shriner in that bus. He had received free care from the Salt Lake Shrine Hospital as a child that had allowed him to walk.

So the Shrine is a conundrum to me. The hospitals are among the finest philanthropic missions in this country. And if they get paid for by grownups who sometimes act like high school imbeciles, well, maybe society needs to loosen its corset a bit.

On the other hand, I don't disagree with the sentiment of those who say that some of the Shrine's institutionalized excesses are at odds with Freemasonry's tenets of morality. I suspect that argument has gone on since the 1870s when the teetotalers found out the Knickerbocker boys were sopping it up in town because the Methodists threw the booze out of the lodge.

But on a larger level, these guys are living in the past. The stock 1920-50s characters of sad-faced George Babbitts, Willy Lomans and Crazy Guggenheims lined up at the bar, comparing lodge pins, pinching waitresses and sneaking out on the wife have largely passed on to the choir invisible. Such outlets of middle-class frustrations may have been a staple of the pre- and post-WWII culture, but it has not been embraced by the children of the Baby Boomers. It is arguable that men don't step out on their wives as much anymore, they just get divorced - or don't get married to begin with. Online porn and the Playboy Channel have brought voyeurism and private personal prurient gratification into the home. And STDs have helped to make the regular practice of playing rumpy-pumpy with professional girlz a less than harmless indiscretion. That hasn't stopped the business entirely, as Elliot Spitzer proved in New York by dropping 80-large to have his clock cleaned. But it's just not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge kind of activity in US society anymore. Which makes the activities of the Jesters not just un-masonic and illegal, but a sort of creepy anachronism for a group to be engaging in.

I don't have a problem with Brother Widow's Son posting the lurid details of the Jesters on his blog site. Thomas Hardy said, "If a way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the worst." And if a clot of idiots want to drag Freemasonry into the whorehouse by association and besmirch the fraternity by whoring it up with underage girls, they need to be exposed loudly, and their local Grand Master needs to give them the Order of the Boot. I'm not a Jester, and couldn't tell you what goes on at their gatherings with any degree of certainty. But I find it especially moronic and irresponsible for the Jesters to have an online shop selling tee-shirts featuring a cartoon Jester climbing a well endowed woman and burying his face in her ample balcony, in light of the current state and federal investigations into their behavior. If nothing else, it's a little like Bruno Hauptmann leaving the ladder outside of the Lindbergh house.

I keep coming back to the same conclusion over and over. The Shrine needs to split from Freemasonry. The two groups need to go their own way. I know there has been shrieking on both sides that such a split will kill membership on both sides, but I don't agree with that anymore. Men who believe in the aims of both organizations will continue to belong to both. The Shrine will be able to draw from a larger pool of potential recruits. And if Freemasonry returns to its pre-1843 roots, the way the rest of the Masonic universe has remained, combining its tavern-hall, social origins with its Enlightenment-era philosophy of tolerance and brotherhood, the two groups will get along just fine. The rest of the Masonic world never barred alcohol from the post-lodge experience, so they never had any need to create Shrines and Grottos to begin with. Outside of the US, it's common and perfectly respectable for the Master to announce, "the lodge is closed and the bar is open." There's no need to act like idiot children because they treat Masons like adults.

On another mailing list a Mason made the remark that those who were criticizing the Jesters had "determined the length of another Brothers Cable Tow. I didn't realize that becoming a Mason meant that Christian Morality governed the fraternity. I believe that the then King David had many Concubines and for that matter plural wives. . . Did the brothers do something that in the 20th and 21st century is considered in inappropriate? Well according to the laws of the United States yes. When I used to hire a lot of Mexican workers many of these workers claimed that they were married. These workers were usually found out to be minors and yet they had children of their own with a young woman who was underage and they claimed to be husband and wife. Some of these young people were under the age of 16, now who's morality are you going to condemn these people with..."

If ever there was an argument for the Shrine to clean up its act, or to move away from Freemasonry, it's right there, in a sociopath's relativistic defense of hiring 13 year old prostitutes to live by the motto "mirth is king."

________________

Christopher L. Hodapp is the editor of the "Journal of The Masonic Society." He is the author of the best-selling "Freemasons For Dummies," and "Solomon's Builders: Freemasons, Founding Fathers and the Secrets of Washington D.C
[/ex]

Example 7 (2010 & 2019)


ROJ Wives Club says:
August 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm
After 30 years of marriage to a Shriner I finally realized what a life I wasted with someone who lies, cheats and deceives me. My husband joined the Freemasons after we had been married about 5 years and being the narcissist that he is things quickly got out of hand –he is currently a member of 15+ organizations. It doesn’t stop with the Shrine there are spin off organizations they join such as the Royal Order of Jesters, Order of the Q, Billiken Clubs, Jesters on Wheels, etc. that keep them gone on weekends and will drain your bank accounts. These organizations promote immoral activities that are published as STAG events that include prostitution. Over the years while doing the wash I found call girl cards, phone numbers, Viagra, and other memorabilia in my husband’s pockets after he returned from the “Books”. These Books are nothing more than excuses to leave your wife and family and do whatever you want – your marriage vows are checked at the door. What goes on behind the secret Shrine/ROJ curtain stays behind the curtain. They will lie to your face and in court to protect each other. One protection they can’t offer is from HIV – Jester Girls should be tested more often. I recommend to other wives that you have your husband HIV tested regularly if he joins any of these organizations or your life will be in danger and not just from his threats. The Sam Houston email regarding the Royal Order of Jesters is not isolated to Texas and New York this behavior exists in every state under the fraternal cloak of darkness. They are brainwashed to acknowledge Hiram Abiff as their savior and to believe in a supreme being that is not Jesus Christ. Like they say SO LET IT BE


HEATHER J. says:
September 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I am divorced after 30 yrs of marriage to a ROJ member. He was a respected educator esteemed by the community where we lived, worked, farmed and raised our children. We were not wealthy but he was accepted as a member of the ROJ on the recommendation of his very wealthy brother and on the condition that he do the “secretarial” work for his court. He did not like this job since he felt it was demeaning. When I once asked him why he agreed to do it, his response was “because I would not be able to be a Jester any other way.” He is a Mason and rose to respected leadership and honour in that order. He subsequently joined the Shrine. I had always been a supportive partner in all of his extracurricular activities related, inter alia, to Masonry and Shrinedom. Our marriage had been one that was based on love, hard work, trust and mutual respect. But then my husband joined the ROJ. He was away many weekends, out of the country and at Books of the Play in our country. These diversions strained our budget in a huge way. Over time, our relationship, and my husband’s relationship with our aware and intelligent teenagers began deteriorating. He was aloof, often in a bad mood, uncommunicative and unsupportive of anything to do with mutual or family activities. He acted like he did not like any of us anymore. (It was himself he didn’t like anymore!) He did, however, always tell me upon returning from a ROJ event, of all the activities that went on there – much of which has been written about on various related websites recently. I could not condone this behaviour of the many men I knew who were Jesters, but at that point, I still believed my husband when he said he did not engage in any of these activities. I often directly challenged him on how he could purport to adhere to the morals and principles espoused by Masonry and still turn a blind eye to the behaviour of his “Masonic” friends and family members who had become members of the ROJ. One day he informed me that he did not want to be married anymore. I could not understand why, initially. It was when we were well into the legal separation stage that my son, of all people, told me what his father had been up to all this time. My husband had earlier in the year taken our son into his confidence and subsequently to one of the out of country weekends to educate him as to what went on at these events – I guess as a means of educating our son in the ways of manhood and manly activities. At that point, my husband was having an affair with a woman in the US and also having affairs when in home country ROJ territory. Some educator! Some education! I was appalled, angry, disgusted, betrayed and completely ambushed and damaged by this information. The rest is very painful history and now belongs in my past – not my present. My children are now married with children of their own. Their father is part of their lives once again, but that is due to their initiative and courage to engage with him in recent years. He is still a very active Jester and travels to the BOP’s many time a year. He and I still must connect politely at family gatherings. He still seems in need of my friendship from time to time and I remain detached and cool, but I keep the peace. I have paid a very painful price for this peace. No, I do not have anything good to say about Jesters or this organization of primarily very wealthy (but incredibly selfish and narcissistic hedonists), influential men from around the world. I know too much. And many of the Jesters I know, know I know too much. The behaviour of adult, seemingly successful and intelligent men at the various venues of the ROJ does nothing but bring sadness to my soul. I thought, rather naively I suppose, that overall male intelligence and moral decency had risen considerably above the level of the “the other head” in recent generations. How wrong I feel about that now. I do not understand why a group of men must have a “secret” and exclusive club to engage in deviant sexual (as morally and legally defined) behaviour and other non-mainstream activities such as cock and dog fights. There are surely enough other venues, opportunities and freedom of choice these days for any adult man or woman to have their non-mainstraim needs met. Why the need for disguising as “phun” and secretly condoning such behavior in a group comprised mainly of so-called “elitists”? Sick, sicker and sickest. There is, IMHO, absolutely no merit to this Masonic/Shrine offshoot organization whatsoever. Thanks for the opportunity to rant.
................

But sources close to the investigation and former Jesters from other parts of the country tell a different story, one of bizarre activities — including routinely hiring prostitutes for gatherings, sex competitions and degrading initiation rites for new members — at many Jesters outings, with off-duty police hired to keep nonmembers away......

Last August Martin (te Jester's president) sent a directive to all 191 local chapters, forbidding the following conduct during initiation ceremonies:

• “Any type of physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking [or] placing of a harmful substance on the body.”

• Sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement to small spaces, or other activity that subjects Jesters to “an unreasonable risk of harm.”

http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/05/royal-order-of-jesters-and-bizzare-sex-acts/



Example 8 (2008)



For those of you who read this post are a Mason or not, please take into consideration what I am about to discuss. I want to say that I am a former member of the Royal Order of Jesters and a past Director of my local Court. My name is ficticious in order to hide my identity so those Jesters who are members of my Shrine Temple will not know who I am. I am not fearing for my life or any such thing, but I would certainly recieve a cold shoulder and disgust if not shunned and tried to force my removal as a member of the Temple which I am still very active in.

In defense of Freemasonry, I will say that 95% of the membership know little or nothing of the ROJ or what they do. The ROJ is a hush hush order and not ever to be spoken of in front of non-members. In some Temples the ROJ is the only way some men will be elected to the Divan (elected officers of the local Shrine Temple) while in some it will bar you from becoming a member of the Divan.

Here is a word for word quote from the book describing , WHAT A JESTER IS.

The Royal Order of Jesters is a luxury organization - for only those who can qualify and afford it. Any man proposed for membership should be of such financial status that his dues, assesments and expenditures incidental to his membership, will cause no embarassement or deprivation to his family, business associates, or any others to whom he may be at any time obligated.

He must be a good Shriner in good standing in his temple and pre requisite bodies, and must maintain these memberships if invited to become a Royal Jester.

Because membership in the Royal Order of Jesters is limited, each member is expected to be active as possible. To be a good Jester he should attend the business and social functions of his Court whenever called.

This invitation is usually extended to only those Nobles with enough political pull or power in the Temple or reserved for Past Grand's or the super wealthy. Membership in the Jesters is prestigious and costly. I paid many 1000's of dollars a year in dues and assesments over the years. It is true and some will try and deny it but prostitution and gambling and a whole lot of drinking happens at every Jester function, minus a few. Once or twice a year a Court holds a Co-Ed function where the wives may attend.

Prostitution is the Order of business at the National Book of the Play. The way that the Jesters try to claim there are no prostitutes is because the women are not in the same room but are in rooms paid for out of the Budget of the Play. I have attended many plays over the years and have seen as many as twenty plus women and as little as 1 at various functions. The women come with a certificate that states they are free of all STD's and only then are they allowed to work. ( wouldn't want the Jester to come home and bring something back to his wife that he can't explain, huh?)

Some will say not all Jesters participate in this and that is true, but about 90% do. I knew a member who was a Minister and he attended Jester functions knowing full well what went on, but he did drink his fair share of whiskey. But aside from that, the initiation of new Jesters is embarassing and demeaning. One particular episode found me blindfolded standing on the edge of a stage with a string tied to my penis and the other end to a brick. The Jester kept telling me what would happen if the brick dropped and the string did not break. But asked me if I trusted him and assured me I would need not to wory. I wanted to be a Jester at this time badly, but being naked with a brick tied to me I threw the brick but little did I know that the string was cut by the member before I threw it and it did not tug me. There were other situations like this. After the initation I was offered by a member to sleep with a prostitute or go watch another member as he took one on. Or we could perform a oral act on her.

I once traveled down south to Georgia where the local court in Atlanta puts on a Totem Pole Degree. Starring the "where the ^uck are we tribe". This degree is filthy and raunchy. Women were at this event as well

http://sandyfrost.newsvine.com/_news/2008/04/12/1424688-judge-central-figure-in-fbi-probe-the-sobib-and-the-jesters-half-million-dollar-weekend-parties-



Example 9 (2006)



Mannheim soldier’s death has element of Masonic mystery

http://www.stripes.com/news/mannheim-soldier-s-death-has-element-of-masonic-mystery-1.44856

GI found dead hours after scheduled secretive rite

European edition, Sunday, February 12, 2006

Questions loom involving the details of Spc. Donald Anthony’s death. An autopsy was inconclusive.

Masonic history 101

The Masons are a secret society that dubs itself the world’s oldest and largest fraternity. Masons rise in rank by performing degree-work.

Prince Hall Masons, made up primarily of black men, began in Massachusetts about 200 years ago as an offshoot of the early Masonic lodges in America. The African Lodge was organized on July 3, 1776, with Prince Hall as the worshipful master.

The African Lodge grew and prospered to such a degree that Prince Hall was appointed a provincial grand master in 1791. Out of this grew the first Black Provincial Grand Lodge.

In 1847, out of respect for their founding father and first grand master, Prince Hall, the three existing African lodges changed their name to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, the name it carries today.

Today, some 5,000 lodges and 47 grand lodges exist that trace their lineage to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, Jurisdiction of Massachusetts.

The Prince Hall lodge to which Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder belonged in Mannheim, Germany, falls under the purview of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington and Jurisdiction. Prince Hall lodges under the state of Washington grand lodge can be found in Germany, Iceland, Japan, Okinawa, South Korea, Turkey and the United Kingdom. The office of the Prince Hall in Kuwait is listed at Camp Arifjan.

The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Maryland has jurisdiction over several lodges in Germany that have their meetings on military installations. Installation commanders determine if private groups — such as the Masons — can meet on military facilities, said Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Department of Defense spokeswoman.

Most scholars believe Masonry arose from the guilds of stonemasons who built castles and cathedrals of the middle ages. In 1717, Masonry created a formal organization when four lodges in London joined to form England’s first Grand Lodge.

The Masons perform charitable services as well. The Shrine Masons (Shriners) operate the largest network of hospitals for burned and orthopedically impaired children in the country, and there is never a fee for treatment. The Scottish Rite Masons maintain a nationwide network of more than 150 Childhood Language Disorder Clinics, Centers, and Programs.

— Steve Mraz

Sources: www.princehall.org, Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington Web site, Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Maryland Web site, Grand Lodge of Virginia Web site.

MANNHEIM, Germany — Weeks before Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder was found dead in a barracks shower, his parents say, he told them he knew he was going to be beaten.

On Jan. 7, Wilder, 21, was set to become a third-degree Mason with the Prince Hall Masons in Mannheim. A radio communication security controller repairman with the 512th Maintenance Company, Wilder had become active with the Prince Hall Masons in the fall of 2005.

The Prince Hall Masons are a predominantly black, secretive brotherhood. Similar to other branches of Masons, the group offers networking opportunities and performs community service. Several U.S. troops in Europe and around the world belong to the Prince Hall Masons.

In order to become a third-degree Mason, Wilder knew he would have to endure being beaten on his buttocks with a paddle by fellow Masons.


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/769fbe93ebdd.jpg

His plan was to get so drunk for the Jan. 7 ceremony that he wouldn’t feel the pain of the beatings, according to a friend, Spc. Tony d’Ercole. His mother, Diane Wilder, said her son told her that if he got so drunk that he passed out, his fellow Masons would take his blows.

On Jan. 8, just hours after the evening ceremony that took place inside Mannheim American High School at Benjamin Franklin Village, Wilder was found dead in a friend’s shower in the barracks at Spinelli Barracks in Mannheim.

An autopsy performed last month at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center was inconclusive, pending further studies, which are due back next week. Marie Shaw, a Landstuhl spokeswoman, said preliminary findings show Wilder experienced a “sudden, unexpected death.”

Wilder’s actions during the days leading to his death have been outlined by a friend, d’Ercole and his mother.

The Prince Hall grand lodge that has jurisdiction of the lodge with which Wilder was active issued an edict against hazing just 10 days after Wilder died.

“Be it hereby known and acknowledged that there will be no hazing or un-Masonic conduct of any sort tolerated during degree work within the Jurisdiction of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington and Jurisdiction,” the Jan. 18 letter stated. “Any such behavior that is determined to be inappropriate will be dealt with swiftly and unequivocally per our code on un-Masonic conduct.”

The letter was signed by Wendell O. Hutchings, the lodge’s grand master.

In a telephone interview, Hutchings said his group is investigating what happened at the initiation ceremony. He said paddling is forbidden.

He called what happened Jan. 7 an isolated incident and said it was not reflective of the Prince Hall Masons as a whole.

“Those individuals responsible are certainly going to be dealt with swiftly,” he said. “We are going to make a decision on those individuals who participated in that initiation.”

Last days

Donald Wilder’s parents say their son told them quite a bit about the Masons, except for the group’s secrets. He talked about the good work he did with the Masons. The group raised money for Hurricane Katrina victims and for the college funds of children of U.S. troops killed in action. He told them about the roughly $1,000 in dues he paid since September to be a Mason.


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4bf47c799d5b.jpg


Also, he told them about the paddlings he took when he became a first- and second-degree mason last fall: how he would lie in his bed at Spinelli Barracks in Mannheim, icing his body after the paddlings, his mother said.

“He talked about the beatings a lot … and he was very afraid of them,” Diane Wilder said from her home in Seal Rock, Ore. “Prior to the … ceremony, he was throwing up because he was so nervous, that’s what we were told.”

He said the beatings were to show the other Masons just how badly you want to be a member.

“ ‘If you can’t put up with a little discomfort for a little while in order to do some good for people, you don’t want it that much,’ he told us,” she said.

On Christmas, Diane Wilder talked to her son twice. During those conversations, she says, Donald Wilder expressed concern about the paddlings he knew awaited him.

“His plan was to get so drunk that he wouldn’t have to take all the beatings,” Diane Wilder said.

His parents told him not to go through with it. They would pay for him to join the Masons in Texas where he was set to be reassigned by the Army.

“There was something about it, obviously, we didn’t like,” Diane Wilder said. “It made us nervous. It just didn’t seem right.”

The week before his death, the Wilders talked to their son every other day. On Jan. 5 — three days before he died — Wilder promised his mother he would not go through with the third-degree ceremony, she said.

Donald Wilder would not stay true to his word.

“I think he just decided not to tell us because we disapproved,” Diane Wilder said.

Also on Jan. 5, Wilder went to Murphy’s Law Irish Pub in Mannheim. He met friends that evening, including Maria Testai, a German acquaintance, and d’Ercole, a soldier in Wilder’s unit who served with him in Iraq.

The two soldiers talked for about an hour at the bar, d’Ercole said, and Wilder seemed relaxed. Testai said Wilder told her that he would like to go to a movie with her during the coming weekend.

On Jan. 6, Wilder ate dinner with a friend and the friend’s wife. It was there that he told the couple his plan about getting drunk for the following evening’s ceremony, d’Ercole said.

On Jan. 7 — the night Wilder was set to become a third-degree Mason — he called Testai around 8 p.m. and told her he was going to the “party,” she said.


“I have another friend married to an American,” Testai said. “She told me about the Masons. She told me that they would beat up the people and drink a lot when they have parties. I didn’t like it so I didn’t ask for more.

“He sounded, I don’t know, not really nervous,” Testai said. “He talked a lot. I don’t know if excited is the right word.”

The initiation ceremony took place inside Mannheim American High School. The group initially requested to use the facility on Jan. 6. Because of school rehearsals, the high school was not available, said Dennis Bohannon, public affairs officer for Department of Defense Dependents Schools-Europe.

A key to the school was checked out to the Masons on Jan. 5. The group used the key to enter the facility without authorization on Jan. 7, Bohannon said.

When asked how school officials knew that the Masons were in the facility on Jan. 7, Bohannon said, “someone in the school has personal knowledge.”

After the ceremony, Donald Wilder went out clubbing, his mother said.

Sometime during the morning of Jan. 8, Wilder was found lying unconscious and unresponsive in the shower of a friend’s room at Spinelli Barracks, said Diane Wilder. Medical professionals, military police and the German police were called to the scene.

Shortly after noon, Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder, a 21-year-old veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, was pronounced dead.

Officially speaking

To date, no charges have been preferred against anyone in relation to Wilder’s death. Until further autopsy studies are complete, it is unknown whether Wilder died of alcohol poisoning or something else.

Officially, the command that Wilder’s unit comes under is working with the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command, known as CID, to find out what happened.

“We have multiple, ongoing investigations to ensure that the facts are known and everything that can be done to prevent this from happening to other soldiers,” said Maj. Allen Hing, 21st Theater Support Command public affairs officer.

To protect the integrity of its investigation, CID is not releasing details of the investigation at this time, said Christopher Grey, CID spokesman.

Soldiers are not prohibited from joining such groups as the Masons. D’Ercole estimated about six or seven soldiers in his roughly 250-man unit are Masons.


Example 10 (2004)



A Ritual Gone Fatally Wrong Puts Light on Masonic Secrecy
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2004

http://hazingmasonic.blogspot.com/

PATCHOGUE, N.Y., March 9 � The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge here had been bathed in secrecy over the years. The climax of Monday night's ceremony was to be a simple prank. A new member of the Fellow Craft Club, a select group within the lodge, would sit in a chair while an older member stood 20 feet away and fired a handgun loaded with blanks.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b5e4b3a7cfa5.jpg

That ritual went terribly wrong inside Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493, in a basement littered with rat traps, tin cans, a 9-foot-tall guillotine, and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank.

The shooter, a 76-year-old Mason, Albert Eid, was carrying two guns, a .22-caliber handgun with blanks in his left pocket, and a .32-caliber gun with live rounds in his right pocket.

He reached into his right pants pocket, pulled out the wrong gun and shot William James, a 47-year-old fellow Mason, in the face, killing him, the authorities said.

Mr. Eid, a World War II veteran who had a license to carry his own pistol and often did, pleaded not guilty Tuesday afternoon to a charge of second-degree manslaughter and was released on $2,500 bail. He was wearing his blue Masonic jacket during his arraignment in Central Islip.

Suffolk County Police called the shooting an accident, the consequence of one man's confusion. The fatality exposes this secret society, centuries old, to a rare degree of public scrutiny.

Late Monday night, police carried evidence and ritual objects out of the Masons' one-story lodge in Patchogue. All day Tuesday, television reporters and curious neighbors examined the club's bricked-over windows and peered into the front door to glimpse a bulletin board announcing the order's recent charity efforts.

Masonic leaders statewide were quick to disavow the ritual and shooting, saying it was not Masonic custom to shoot guns at other members. Ron Steiner, a spokesman for the New York State Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, which oversees all Masonic lodges in the state, said the social club was not officially tied to the Masonic organization.

"This is so far beyond the concept of reality it's mind-boggling," Mr. Steiner said. "I've never heard of anything like this."

Mystery and suspicion are woven into the history of the Freemasons, who trace their roots to the stone workers' guilds that built medieval Gothic cathedrals. The guilds evolved into secret clubs over the years with secret handshakes and rituals, and symbols like an all-seeing eye, pyramid and compass.

Over the years, the Southside Masonic Lodge members developed their own initiation rituals for the social club in the lodge that set them apart from most other Masonic organizations, members said. No members of the lodge could remember pistols being used in the rituals (they are not allowed in inside Masonic clubhouses), but some described initiations that were part prank, part exercise in trust.

One member, Michael Paquette, said that when he was initiated into the group five years ago, two mouse traps were placed before him, and he was told that one worked, and one was broken, he said. Another member tested the broken trap, then told Mr. Paquette to touch the live one. He did, and discovered that it, too, was a dud.

"It was really harmless things," Mr. Paquette said. "It was just for you to be there and realize you were in good hands, and you didn't have to fear anything."

On Monday night, Mr. James and Mr. Eid were among 10 men who set to performing the club's initiation.

Mr. James, the first to be initiated, sat down in a chair, and two tin cans were placed on a shelf by his head. The idea was for Mr. Eid to fire two blank rounds, and a man standing behind Mr. James would knock the cans down with a stick. And then it happened.

"This is a tragedy," said Mr. Eid's lawyer, James O'Rourke. "He is absolutely beyond grief-stricken. This is a mistake, not a criminal act."

The Southside Masons are mostly middle-aged or retired men who come from middle-class backgrounds. The group once included about 500 members, but membership here and at other Masonic lodges has fallen over the years, and the group now has about 150 members, said Peter Berg, a member. There are about 67,000 Masons across New York State, and their numbers rose slightly last year, for the first time in a decade, Mr. Steiner said.

Orders like the Southside Masons seem more concerned today with Christmas parties and raising money for blood drives and children's charities than ritual.

While Mr. James had only joined the Southside Masons in December, Mr. Eid had been a member for more than 30 years, other members said.

"He's always there," Mr. Paquette said of Mr. Eid. "He put most of his free time into the lodge."

Fewer Masons knew Mr. James, but officials with the Town of Brookhaven, where he worked for the Planning Department, described him as a friendly man who seemed deeply devoted to his family. Mr. James's wife, Susan, said she had no idea what was happening at the Masons' lodge the night he was shot.

"This is so very sudden, and I'm just very upset," she said outside the couple's home in Medford. "To me, it was just a social thing."


Example 11 (2008)



The Royal Order of Jesters is a luxury organization - for only those who can qualify and afford it. Any man proposed for membership should be of such financial status that his dues, assesments and expenditures incidental to his membership, will cause no embarassement or deprivation to his family, business associates, or any others to whom he may be at any time obligated.

He must be a good Shriner in good standing in his temple and pre requisite bodies, and must maintain these memberships if invited to become a Royal Jester.

Because membership in the Royal Order of Jesters is limited, each member is expected to be active as possible. To be a good Jester he should attend the business and social functions of his Court whenever called.

This invitation is usually extended to only those Nobles with enough political pull or power in the Temple or reserved for Past Grand's or the super wealthy. Membership in the Jesters is prestigious and costly. I paid many 1000's of dollars a year in dues and assesments over the years. It is true and some will try and deny it but prostitution and gambling and a whole lot of drinking happens at every Jester function, minus a few. Once or twice a year a Court holds a Co-Ed function where the wives may attend.

Prostitution is the Order of business at the National Book of the Play. The way that the Jesters try to claim there are no prostitutes is because the women are not in the same room but are in rooms paid for out of the Budget of the Play. I have attended many plays over the years and have seen as many as twenty plus women and as little as 1 at various functions. The women come with a certificate that states they are free of all STD's and only then are they allowed to work. ( wouldn't want the Jester to come home and bring something back to his wife that he can't explain, huh?)

Some will say not all Jesters participate in this and that is true, but about 90% do. I knew a member who was a Minister and he attended Jester functions knowing full well what went on, but he did drink his fair share of whiskey. But aside from that, the initiation of new Jesters is embarassing and demeaning. One particular episode found me blindfolded standing on the edge of a stage with a string tied to my penis and the other end to a brick. The Jester kept telling me what would happen if the brick dropped and the string did not break. But asked me if I trusted him and assured me I would need not to wory. I wanted to be a Jester at this time badly, but being naked with a brick tied to me I threw the brick but little did I know that the string was cut by the member before I threw it and it did not tug me. There were other situations like this. After the initation I was offered by a member to sleep with a prostitute or go watch another member as he took one on. Or we could perform a oral act on her.

I once traveled down south to Georgia where the local court in Atlanta puts on a Totem Pole Degree. Starring the "where the ^uck are we tribe". This degree is filthy and raunchy. Women were at this event as well.

http://sandyfrost.newsvine.com/_news/2008/04/12/1424688-judge-central-figure-in-fbi-probe-the-sobib-and-the-jesters-half-million-dollar-weekend-parties-



It should also be known that many Grand Lodges are cracking down on anything that could be construed as hazing.

Well since you have been having bouts of denialism and temper tantrums over this issue and alleging that Masons do not have such alleged hazing rituals, your statement "Grand Lodges are cracking down on anything that could be construed as hazing" would seem to be contradictory; why on earth would "Grand Lodges" be cracking down on hazing if such hazing did not occur in the first place?

Your beliefs are oppressive in nature.

Since you are part of the US military, you might wish to consider all the great work that you are doing for the liberation and salvation of the Iraqi people (who have been subjected to torture, murder and genocide), for the US oil companies, private corporations and PMC's (Private military companies) and the great blessing that you have bestowed on the Iraqi people for thousands of years to come by scattering thousands of tons of depleted uranium over their lands.


The cable tow is used in a ceremony, but it is no way the same as BDSM's use of a collar. That is
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cb49c94d1d9d.jpgmisconstruing the facts.


The BDSM slave / submissive wears a collar and chain for a purpose, which is mostly symbolic; it is symbolic of submission to the will of a Master / dominant.

Similarly the Masonic slave / submissive makes an oath to obey the will of his worshipful Masters, if they are in grabbing distance of his cable tow; it is part of the Masonic oath of the slave's obedience to his masters.

"For every slave a master and for every master a slave; neither slaves nor masters be; no gods; no masters."

Lux

sae629be
25-04-2011, 08:35 AM
No Mason is the "slave" of any Master. We come to Freemasonry of our own free will and accord. The term "Worshipful Master" or "Right Worshipful Master" is intended to accord respect for the Office.

As for these extraordinary stories recounted here - I can tell you that the only strawberries and cream I have ever seen have been at Festive Board! :D

luciferhorus
25-04-2011, 11:26 AM
No Mason is the "slave" of any Master. We come to Freemasonry of our own free will and accord. The term "Worshipful Master" or "Right Worshipful Master" is intended to accord respect for the Office.

http://www.dealerpage.co.uk/collared%20pic2.jpg

I would not dispute that the BDSM syle rituals of obedience, humiliation andsbmission are "consensual." In the BDSM culture even a sexual submissive who refers to their Masters as a Master, or a Master who refers to a submissive as a slave revolves around language and behaviour which is all consensual roleplay.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4578e5818c2b.jpg

If a Masonic cultists swears an oath to obey the will of Master who is within reach of the length of his cabletow (the BDSM equivalent of a collar and chain), this is of course a form of slavery which is consensual and this pledge of obedience is taken out of free will; further the Masonic submissive will have to actally pay for such rituals, just as a BDSM submissive may have to pay for a Master or Dominatrix in te "commercial" world of BDSM, and since Masonry is part of the multi-billion dollar cult religion business it is really a form of "commercial" homo-erotic BDSM, but I would not wish to imply that it is non-consensual.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3625784277_970ed8d746.jpg

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/demoulin/images/demoulin_no_mans_land.jpg

As for these extraordinary stories recounted here - I can tell you that the only strawberries and cream I have ever seen have been at Festive Board! :D

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/945ff038a1f3.jpg

Probably most of the attempts to deny that such things occur in Masonry are based on the "argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance)" argument, which can be stated as "I have never been to California, therefore California does not exist;" though in Masonic terms it is stated as "I have never been subjected to such hazing and sexual humiliation rituals in my local Masonic lodge franchise, so therefore such things do not occur in any Masonic franchise;" since the Masons operate a religious franchise business which is much like "McDonalds, I am aware that the hazing rituals may vary from lodge to lodge.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3e84a5110c5.jpg

The allegations of such hazing rituals relate to Masonic side degrees, specifically the Shriners and the Jesters, which around a third of all American Masons are members of. Invitation to the Shriners and Jesters is open only to Masons who have gone through other Masonic degrees; it is not open to "all" Masons; therefore I am not suggesting that "all" Masons have undergone the holy and sacrd rituals of applying whipped cream, ice cream and strawberries to the genitals, or applying electric shocks to the genitals, buttocks and feet; nor would I suggest that you personally have been able to advance to such a high degree or that you are worthy of having such sacred and holy rituals revealed to you .

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d04778ac41eb.jpg

My understanding of the Masonic side degree system is that such holy and sacred rituals such as the Hula Hula Bull dance, where candidates are stripped, dressed up in skirts with musical bells attached to their genitals and the most holy and sacred ancient Egyptian hymn tune of "How Dry Am I (i.e., I am not drunk enough)" is played by prodding their genitals with a stick, is a most secret and holy rite whch obviously is so sacred that it is not revealed to "all" Masons; it may well be that you have either not purchased enough fake degrees to be blessed with such precious secrets, or that you have not been invited to the relevant side degrees. Nevertheless the study of Masonry is a aspect of "The Study of Religion" which needs to consider all the various forms of Masonic hazing in their numerous franchises.

Holy, holy.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1831b3821ed5.jpg


By the way, since I offer to beat any price on salvation (or your money back in the afterlife) I woul like to take this opportunity to offer all Masonic cultists to be beaten and sexually humiliated at considerably discounted prices. I will not be beaten on price for Masonic hazing rituals.

Lux

sae629be
25-04-2011, 01:02 PM
Love your sense of humour! :D

luciferhorus
25-04-2011, 01:14 PM
Love your sense of humour! :D

What blasphemy and hees; Iwill have you know that these Masonic homerotic BDSM rituals of abuse and sexual humiliation are most serious, sacred and holy rites which go back to antiquity and that many of these rituals only available to the very elect of Masonry who have purchased many other fake degrees.


The Sacred and Holy simulated "Golden Shower (Unrination)" and caging ritual.

Allegedly this ritual is so scared and holy that it is only available for 32nd degree and above Masons. It involves beng caged and then been unrinated on (simualtion only; they allegedly use water) with a sacred and holy "rubber penis." This is of course one of the most sacred religious rites practiced by the ancient Egyptians in their king-making ceremonies.

Don't try this type of "Golden shower" initiation with a rubber penis on your parents, schoolteachers or local clergy without getting their permission first; the rite is so sacred that you may well be subject to persecution.

Lux



http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/The-Deadly-Deception.html

.....: after each Reunion in the Scottish rite, the Shriners would come around, recruiting the new 32nd degree masons for the Shrine...... Such was the case for me. Shortly after receiving the 32nd degree they began approaching me about joining. .......

I knew that the Shrine initiations got really rambunctious ....... The initiation was performed in the Coliseum
before a very large crowd of Shriners who came to see the fun.
One of the first done was to identify the men with health problems that might make the initiation a risk.
.....
We began the initiation about noon that Saturday. After the medical screening came the hazing, which was very childish. Some of it was not only childish, but downright vulgar. At one point we were placed in a large, mesh cage, and one of the Shriners climbed up on top of it. He exposed a very convincing rubber penis which was connected to a water bag concealed in his clothing and hosed down all of us in the cage to the delighted howls of the spectators.
After the hazing it was time for the serious part, the ritual, and then time to take the oath. We took the obligation, again with terrible bloody consequences if we revealed any of the "secrets" (one form of mayhem we promised to accept was to have our "eyeballs pieced to the center with a sharp, three-edged blade"). And, with the Koran on the altar, we sealed our solemn oath in the name of "Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers."
I had taken so many bloody oaths already (one for each degree) that I paid little attention to this one....

helloperator
25-04-2011, 02:14 PM
Great.

Now go and read the Kay Griggs thread in this section of the forum.

seercyanascens
25-04-2011, 08:38 PM
Luciferhorus, now we know where you have been all this time.....Researching this post. Wellcome back. Oh and forget ATS, they are just not in favour of free expression when it exposes the agenda that they prefer to promote. They stopped me posting as well so Fuck them. Those who know know.

stewart edwards
26-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Freemasons who simply gang up on all citics and shower them with abuse and mockery.:eek: Surely not Luciferhorus. Protectors of the gentle craft acting in such ways - never been known :rolleyes::D

Good to see you back LH. I have missed you.

luciferhorus
27-04-2011, 09:32 AM
:eek: Surely not Luciferhorus. Protectors of the gentle craft acting in such ways - never been known :rolleyes::D

Good to see you back LH. I have missed you.

I have not been "away" anywhere; I have just been spending more time on other forums, though I was also out of the country and off the Internet for about 5 weeks.

Hi Luciferhorus. As you know THe Masons do not feature in my list of favourite perople if talking generally, however I have had many stimulating and interesting encounters with those who have shown willing to throw out the dogma, be human, and exercise a little sense of humour.


I don't consider myself to be an anti-Mason; rather I take more more of an Anarchist position in opposition to "all forms" of organised religion and all "Capitalist gangs."



I would consider the "big three" organised religions (Christianity, Islam and Hinduism) to be a far more prevailant memetic viruses which contribute to the manifestation of "Hell on earth" than the Masonic religion; indeed in comparison to the cultists of these three major religions, I think that Masonry is probably less likely to produce a raving religious fanatic; however Masonry does not just exist as a "religion" but also as a major Capitalist gang, just like the Yakuza, the Triads, the Crips, the Bloods or the Russian and Italian Mafia.

It is impossible to prove exactly, but I suspect that the Freemasons are "the" most economically powerful of Capitalism's organised gangs. Just as Russia is now an organised crime state, with the Mafia running almost all of the major banks and many of the major corporations, and is entwined with the police, government and military, so too it is the case in the UK with the British Mafia (the Freemasons) who are entirely entwined with ploice, the banking sector, the government and the military etc.

Capitalists tend to work more effectively if they are part of an organised Capitalist gang, and I don't think that such gangs will dissapear until Capitalism itself dissapears; if the Freemasons were not the "British Mafia" it would be some other gang running the banks and infiltrating the police and the judiciary, etc., just as it is in Russia.

Your post has been up for a while now and I am absolutely incredulised that it has not been descended upon by the usual Mason defender crew who circle almost continuously above the forum, with razor sharp vision, just waiting to swoop down on anyone who makes even the slightest defamatory remark for which they immediately demand proof of.


The post has neen deleted from ATS, however I don't think that it is helpful or even honest to make wild claims and to offer bizarre conspiracy theories about the Masons which cannot be establshed; there is anyway sufficient evidence to establish that they are a major Capitalist gang.

For example, I think that David Icke's analysis of Freemasonry is generally quite correct, however his presentation of Arizona Wilder's "shape shifting reptilian" claims does seems to reduce his credibility.

I have personally had simiarly bizarre experiences in my past years of rather wild experimentation with shamanic psychoactives; thus if a person suffering from the effects of schizophrenia (which Wilder seems to be) claims that they saw persons transforming into reptiles, I have no problem believing them, since the human brain can produce effects like that, but it is entirely subjective (i.e., "within" the human mind); further I simply disbelieve that she saw members of the royal family devouring babies; she seems to be suffering from a "Walter Mitty" type syndrome, and this is not uncommon.

Now me, being a well-balanced and reasonable sort of chap, and despite feeling that it would be quite super to be able to prove the incredible invents of your post, think that not even they would stoop to this kind of thing. You are having a laugh are you not? Just dangling a way oversize and over orange carrot for the what you would hope to prove to be, ranting reply's from irrational anti-masons so that you can gert them discredited.


There are numerous testimonials made by Masons and ex-Masons that these kind of "hazing rituals" and "sex parties" happen in Masonic side degrees, though most of the allegations refer to the American Masons and specifically to the Shriners, Jesters and Prince Hall Masonry. Further we have police and FBI reports that confirm some of this; further we have images from a "side degree" equipment catlogue regarding hazing equipment and we have testimonials to this equipment being used.



"Proof" beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law generally is established by A: testimonial evidence and B: empirical evidence (i.e., physical evidence) and I think that there is adequate testimonial and physical evidence to establish that bizarre hazing rituals are an aspect of "some" Masonic cult franchises, and that there is adequate testimonial evidence of drunken "sex parties" with prostitutes and strippers involving particularly Shriner and Jester Masons.



Of course there is nothing unsurprising about drunken sex parties with Capitalist males involving prostitutes and strippers; this happens all the time in Capitalism, however in order to understand what Freemasonry is, it is necessary to understand that such events do occur within Masonry and that they are "commonplace" in certain side degrees.



Most of this evidence regarding hazing rituals and sex parties I have attempted to present in the numerous pages of the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters, on: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg1 which has now 245 responses, mostly from American Masons and from myself; it began with the charity scam accusations and descended into the "hazing rituals" accusations.



I should point out that I consider the modern sexual revolution to be "progressive" and important for the de-christianisation of society, however I find the use of strippers, prostitutes, trafficked sex slaves (which has been established by the FBI) and child prostitutes at Masonic events to be rather tacky and exploitative; it is not really an aspect of the modern sexual revolution and erotic freedom which I find to be progressive.

Not this kiddy because my perception extends way beyond what you consider to be the norm. I do understand that this is an entrapment web-site and I am playing it for what it is.

I don't consider the David Icke discussion group to be in any way an "entrapment" web-site; the Freemasons here are accorded the freedom to defend their cult / gang against various accusations, and that is the way a free debate / discusion should be run.

Of course we know for a fact that the Anglo-American state terrorists have "professional" Internet activists and propagandists, however it is unlikely that they would ever "out" themselves, and they are likely to be in the minority.

The moderators of the secret societies forum on ATS appear to be "exclusively" either Freemasons or Masonic apologists; I have yet to find an ATS moderator who is critical of Masonry, and I think the intent is to "attract" those who are critical of Masonry and to gang up on them and attempt to discredit their allegations; but I understand that and I just run with it. Similarly it seems to me that the purpose of the ATS "911" subforum is to discredit those who consider 911 to be just another US military black operation.

Essentially I think that the general ethos (idea) behind ATS is to "discredit" the various bizzare conspiracy theories that exist, and this is not necessarily a bad thing, since a "conspiracy theory" religion is developing, but it is quite another matter to defend the propaganda of the US state terrorists / imperialists.

Futher I believe that "UFO conspiracy theory-ism" is "promoted" by the US military propagandists to disguise their advanced aricraft research projects, so when it comes to "UFO" conspracy theories, the ATS position seem to be more open to this.

Frankly my investigations of the ATS site owner "Bill Irvine (aka SkepticOverlord)" have revealed very little other than that he runs the site and a number of other sites as commercial businesses; thus I am reluctant to suggest that ATS is a US military psy-ops site, since there is no hard evidence of this, however it certainly "seems" that way to me.

Personally I think that it is indicative of a ratinal, critical, questioning "free mind" to have a skeptical attitude to "all" conspiracy theories and having initial "doubt" and attempting to question and falsify them; this would be the standard attidue of all historians in the academic world to the variety of bizzare conspiracy theories; however prior to the arrival of the WWW and the modern mass phenomena of the "conspiracy theory" movement and the "911 truth movement," those who were skeptical of US propaganda and who attempted to portray the US state terrorists "as" genocidal terrorists, assassins, narco-terrorists and imperialists were the political left in general, though the "conspiracy theory" movement is now a rag tag army of Christians and of the anti-Communist political right.

I think that there is a difference between remaining skeptical and critical of Anglo-American state terrorist propaganda and of promoting such propaganda and in general I consider ATS to be a site which attracts "conspiracy theorists" and "911 truthers" but which essentially seems to lean heavily towards the support of US miltiary propaganda; this is an accusation which I would not make in regards to the Alex Jones and David Icke discussion boards by the way.

I love the Masons, I love the Royals, I love David Icke and I love David Cameron, Baruck Obahma and I also love Jahbulon.



I don't find this "love thy enemy" position to accord with human nature. The Masons I know in real life, from having grown up in Scotland with a Masonic father are all quite decent people and I have no "personal" issues with them; I am quite sure that members of "all" organised Capitalist gangs love their friends, family and children; that is not the point; it seems to me that the Masons are an organised gang of Capitalists, loan sharks and assorted state terrorist collaborators with around 50 or so military lodges in the UK, lodges for the police, judiciary and banking community; they are essentially part of the Capitalist establishment and of the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" in general, and thus my opposition to them is simply ideological / political and moral.

Certainly there are at least two Masonic individuals on this site who have more progressive libertarian / Anarchist / Socialist worldviews, however the exceptions do not make the rule and in general the Masons tend to be Capitalists and conservatives and part of the "problem" rather than the part of the "solution" to the economic and political hell on earth that has been created by the Capitalist system.


So Mr Luciferhorus of Glastonbury, Fuck off back to ATS eeeerrhhh no, sorry, did not mean that honest. Nice to have you back dude.

P.S. All that work for nothing. You must be gutted.

ATS is only one of 100's of groups I am subscribed to. With regards to "All that work for nothing" I think that the Masons on ATS generally do not understand my debating strategy and my "entrapment strategy."



For example on the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters, on: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg1 many of the 245 posts are responses from myself, and I almost never issue brief one-liner responses; many are extended essays full of lengthy external quotations and images which have numerous embedded keywords; the 1000's of keywords on that thread alone relating to Freemasonry have placed it on the front page of Google searches for various subjects, and the cacophony of denialism, abuse and temper tantrums expressed by the Masons there are all to my advantage; indeed by my contrfontational attitude I effectively seek to encourage such childish behaviour and denialistic responses, though of course I do not respond in such a way myself.

Words are weapons. Propaganda is the first stage of war.

Lux


__________________


Great.

Now go and read the Kay Griggs thread in this section of the forum.

I think that Kay's testimony contributes to an understanding of the evils of US state terrorism & imperialism, though I am not sure how that relates specfically to Masonry, though most Masons appear to be Anglo-American state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborators. A brief Google search for "CIA drugs," "CIA assassinations," "CIA terrorism" and numerous other keywords related to the US military will both add to and confirm much of Kay's analysis; I think that the large numbers of US military & CIA operatives who have come "out" and exposed the corruption and genocidal evil of the US military establishment is a testimony to the bravery of many Americans; unfotunately on this side of the Atlantic we have few such individuals, possibly because of the "Official Secrets Act" where such individuals tend to go the way of David Shayler, which is to be prosecuted for revealing the activities of the British state terrorists, the financing of AL Queda, their infiltration of the mass media, political parties, etc.

Lux

baxterdream
27-04-2011, 11:53 AM
I find it quite distasteful that you claim this is fact for freemasonary when it clearly is nothing to do with Freemasons, but an organisation that is found, as far as I know, predominantly in USA called Shriners. A quick search will tell you that that is a fraternity that were started by some masons who wanted more fun and games, and yes they are only open to master masons and people from one of the side orders, but that not make it all masons.

I find in general in this, and most other forums, that the so called experts on all that's wrong with masonary have no idea how to differentiate between the different rites, side orders and affiliated bodies.

Scottish rite, York rite, Nordic/Swedish rite, Shriners, Jesters, GLofAE, UGLE, etc, etc

luciferhorus
27-04-2011, 01:47 PM
I find it quite distasteful that you claim this is fact for freemasonary when it clearly is nothing to do with Freemasons,


Shriner Masonry is a "Masonic Side Degree" which only admits Freemasons, and the "Jesters" is a side degree of the Shriners, which only admits Shriner Freemasons. Since there are approximatly 400,000 Shriners in the US and approximately 1.5 million US Masons, then somewhere between 25% to 30% of all American Freemmasons are Shriners.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qlsSGLjV6oU/S3SiEO5y2vI/AAAAAAAABb0/Ud6HJtHCEiE/s400/demoulin_the_guillotine.jpg

The OP examples refer only to the Shriners, Jesters, Prince Hall Masonry and to American York rite Masonry (specifically to the shooting Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493, "in a basement littered with rat traps, tin cans, a 9-foot-tall guillotine, and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank).

If you are going to argue that "it clearly is nothing to do with Freemasons," which is clearly a totally dishonest and deceptive statement, you would need to offer evidence that no Freemasons belong to the Masonic side degreees of the Shriners or Jesters or to the Masonic cult franchises called Prince Hall Masonry or "York Rite" Masonry; the latter of which is a cult whose cult leader appears to be HRH the Duke of Kent, though the American York rite seems to have it's own heirarchy and a degree of autonomy, but is considered to be "regular" and it's franchise approved of by the English York rite .

but an organisation that is found, as far as I know, predominantly in USA called Shriners. A quick search will tell you that that is a fraternity that were started by some masons who wanted more fun and games, and yes they are only open to master masons and people from one of the side orders, but that not make it all masons.

I have not in any way suggested that "all Masons" are Shriners or Jesters or Prince Hall Masons or even members of the York Rite; on the contrary; there are other forms of Masonry including the competing "irregular" rites (such as the O.T.O) whose initiations are not approved of by most Masons; as far as I am aware the O.T.O. for example do not have hazing rituals where members are subjected to electrocution and humiliation

I find in general in this, and most other forums, that the so called experts on all that's wrong with masonary have no idea how to differentiate between the different rites, side orders and affiliated bodies.

Scottish rite, York rite, Nordic/Swedish rite, Shriners, Jesters, GLofAE, UGLE, etc, etc

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d04778ac41eb.jpg

I am well aware that Freemasonry is part of the multi-billion dollar religion business and that there are numerous Masonic sects (sections) and franchises which are licenced to sell the fake Masonic degrees and titles, and that not all Masons are considered to be worthy enough to receive the ancient and holy initiation rite of having whipped cream, ice cream and strawberries applied to their genitals, and of having electric shocks applies to their feet, genitals and buttocks, or to receive the ancient holy and sacred Hula, Hula Bull dance initiation; nor have I suggested that you personally have been considered worthy to have such ancient and holy sacred rituals revealed to you.

Holy, Holy.

Stranger and stranger.

Lux

agneau
27-04-2011, 07:58 PM
very funny....Lucy, old boy. Complete and utter tosh of course - but funny.

luciferhorus
27-04-2011, 09:54 PM
very funny....Lucy, old boy. Complete and utter tosh of course - but funny.

Contadiction and abuse are poor substitutes for offering argument and evidence, and are usually the cries of the desparate in debate. "I don't agree with that is not an argument, an argument would state why you do not agree, or in the case of disputing evidence, would refute such evidence.

Argument Clinic - YouTube

Considering that many anti-Masons accuse the Masons of human sacrifice cultism, baby-eating, transforming into reptiles, Satanism and numerous other bizarre claims for which there is simply no evidence, I would suggest that the allegations for which there is ample evidence, such as the bizarre hazing rituals and sex parties with prostitutes and strippers, are really rather tame allegations and frankly quite humorous; however when the Freemason denies that such things go on, when there is ample evidence that they do, then they simply lose credibility.



We had to walk with other candidates over the "burning sands" of the desert (everything
in the Shrine is couched in Arabic imagery). Barefoot, we walked over what we later
learned was a carpet with electric wires in it designed to slightly burn our feet, without
causing any damage to them. .....

Another "high point" consisted of having to get down on all fours (still blindfolded) and
try to suck on a hot dog which was dangling somewhere in the general vicinity of my
face. As I was attempting to do this, I was being poked in my rear with what felt like a
pretty serious hat-pin. Additionally, I was led to believe I was being urinated on by a dog
in the face.


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/stonefox_2006/joe_oppedisano_3.jpg

That "some" Masons, specifically American Masons, are stripped, blindfolded, have to get down on all fours, simulate having oral sex with a hot dog, are poked in the posterior with a sharp object and are led to believe that a dog is urinating on them, I find to be hilarious.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/32ada90014aa.jpg

Hazing rituals appear to be different and vary according to the Masonic cult franchise, and I am not in any way suggesting that you personally have been considered worthy for the sacred and holy simulated "oral sex" and "dog pissing" riual, but at least admitting that such bizarre rituals do occur, would I think help to dispel some of the more serious allegations of baby eating or human sacrifice cultism and allow Masonry to be viewed as a cult of silly old men who like engage in homo-erotic hazing rituals and have sex with prostitutes; none of which is illegal of course.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7e3732b226b.jpg

Personally I think that the secrecy surrounding Masonic rituals and functons is not because they are diabolically evil, but rather because they are just silly, humiliating and embarassing, and probably most Masons don't want their wives to know that they attend functions full of strippers and prostitutes, but I think that honesty is the best policy; it is the 21st century after all and there is not the same stigma that there once was attached to homo-erotic BDSM or having whipped cream and strawberries applied to one's genitals or having an electrocution or ritual torture fetish, etc., it is as least not as bad as being accused of being human sacrifice cultists or shape shifting reptiles who eat babies.

Personally I have not gorged on Christian flesh and blood or eaten babies for several days now, and I feel so much better; I am beginning to think that it might not be a holy sacrament after all, and Christian flesh tends to be rather chewy and gristly; perhaps the Christians should be cook first rather than eaten raw. Could the Masons gve me any advice on this? Do you prefer your Christians cooked or raw?

Lux

enlighten me
27-04-2011, 10:42 PM
These forums wouldn't be the same without our Lux :D

seercyanascens
27-04-2011, 10:56 PM
Words are weapons. Propaganda is the first stage of war.

Lux

_______________

Lux

O.k. Lucy, lets try a different tac. I'm really buzzin tonight . Fancy a shag?

seercyanascens
28-04-2011, 12:31 AM
I find it quite distasteful that you claim this is fact for freemasonary when it clearly is nothing to do with Freemasons, but an organisation that is found, as far as I know, predominantly in USA called Shriners. A quick search will tell you that that is a fraternity that were started by some masons who wanted more fun and games, and yes they are only open to master masons and people from one of the side orders, but that not make it all masons.

I find in general in this, and most other forums, that the so called experts on all that's wrong with masonary have no idea how to differentiate between the different rites, side orders and affiliated bodies.

Scottish rite, York rite, Nordic/Swedish rite, Shriners, Jesters, GLofAE, UGLE, etc, etc
I agree with you Baxterdream. It is just a shame that you were a little too slow off the mark to be convincing

luciferhorus
28-04-2011, 12:51 AM
O.k. Lucy, lets try a different tac. I'm really buzzin tonight . Fancy a shag?

Unfortunately my current witch of a girlfriend is rather possessive and only lets me deflower priests (prior to devouring them of course) or Christian virgins.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk8ncdWg8X1qaviz3o1_500.jpg

I should point out that I have decided to add to my "I will beat any price on salvation, or double your money back in the afterlife" offer, and I am now offering BDSM style Masonic hazing and humiliation rituals at lower prices than Masonic Lodge membership and fake degree prices.

Why pay more to be stripped, blindfolded, branded, chained (with a cabletow, caged) electrocuted, beaten and humiliated, when I am offering much more severe beatings, electrocutions at low, low prices?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/4731846044_49598ebcb4.jpg

His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer

Salvation at low, low prices. I will not be beaten on price for salvation, 72 virgins in the afterlfe (I offe 144) or Masonic humiliation, beatings and hazing rituals.

http://funnymail.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/72virgins1.jpg

lord tsukasa
28-04-2011, 03:19 AM
Lux,

I note that no members of this forum were able to actually disprove your very concrete arguments.

Enlighten_Me and Agneau simply dismissed your work as amusing, while presenting no evidence to dispute it. Baxterdream tried to down-play the undeniable connection between Shriners and Freemasons, and was promptly refuted.

The case you've presented here is a strong one. Perhaps are resident Masonic spokesman "Enlighten_Me" should actually read and consider your arguments, not simply post baseless, condescending posts. But, who can blame him? His brothers are behaving in a similarly childish manner, and it's only proper that they all dance to the same tune.

Keep it up and don't be disheartened. Every baseless criticism ("complete tosh but funny.. please ignore my inability to submit anything of substance to the discussion") is a sign you're on the right track. If what you were saying was provably wrong, they would have disputed your very clear arguments by now.

one666
28-04-2011, 03:57 AM
I believe the Roman Catholic church started Masonry originally

lord tsukasa
28-04-2011, 05:30 AM
I believe the Roman Catholic church started Masonry originally

I would agree. From David Icke's And The Truth Shall Set You Free..., we read:

It is said that Freemasonry was once a society that was exclusive to those who worked as stonemasons and builders on the churches and cathedrals. It was then called Masonry. Their lodges were like trade organizations some historians claim, and their secrecy and rituals were designed to protect their profession from unskilled outsiders. Most of the Masons’ work came from the Catholic Church, ruled from Rome. The immense wealth of the Church, most of it stolen directly or indirectly, paid for the construction of the great cathedrals on which the masons’ income largely depended.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/andtruthfreebook/truthfree09.htm

It is also a concrete fact that Freemasonry is a revival of the Knights Templar. The Knights Templar were a military order of the Vatican, and used as the Vatican's soldiers during the crusades.

"It is curious to note too that most of the bodies which work these, such as the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, the Rite of Avignon, the Order of the Temple, Fesslor’s Rite, the ‘Grand Council of the Emperors of the East and West Sovereign Prince Masons’, etc., etc., are nearly all the offspring of the sons of Ignatius Loyola. The Baron Hundt, Chevalier Ramsey, Tschoudy, Zinnendorf, and numerous others, who founded the grades in these rites, worked under instructions from the General of the Jesuits. The nest where these high degrees were hatched, and no Masonic rite is free from their baleful influence more or less, was the Jesuit College of Clermont at Paris."
-Isis Unveiled, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky

“Chevalier de Bonneville [like the Bonneville automobile
manufactured by Chevrolet/General Motors] formed a chapter of
twenty-five Degrees of the so-called High-Degrees in the College of
Jesuits of Clermont, in Paris in 1754. The adherents of the House of
Stuart had made the college of Clermont their asylum, they being
mostly Scotchmen. One of these Degrees being the “Scottish Master,”
the new body organized in Charleston, S.C., in 1801, gave the name of
Scottish Rite to these Degrees, which name ever since that time has
characterized the Rite all over the world.”
-Masonic Quiz Book “Ask Me Another, Brother,”, William O. Petersen (32nd Degree Freemason)

The idea that the Jesuit Order created Freemasonry as a front is consistent with the similarities between the two. Both have similar degrees/rituals:

"There is considerable analogy between Masonic and Jesuitic degrees; and the Jesuits also tread down the shoe and bare the knee, because Ignatius Loyola thus presented himself at Rome and asked for the confirmation of the order."
-Secret Societies of all Ages and Countries, Heckethorn (English Historian)

“The higher I went in the Jesuit Order, the more corruption I saw within the institution. I was invited to attend a secret black mass by high-ranking Jesuits [including Superior General Pedro Arrupe] in a monastery in the northern part of Spain. When I knelt to kiss the ring of a high official, I saw a symbol on that ring that made my blood run cold. It was a Masonic symbol!"
-Alberto, Alberto Rivera (Former Jesuit Priest)

There are persistent rumors that the Jesuit General controls Freemasonry. James Parton, an American historian, writes in The Life of Horace Greeley:

“There are still old ladies, male and female, about the country, who will tell
you, with grim gravity that, if you trace up Masonry, through all its Orders,
till you come to the grand tip-top, head Mason of the World, you will
discover that the dread individual and the Chief of the Society of Jesus are
one and the same person!”

The Jesuits have used Freemasonry many times. It is one of their most powerful tentacles.

baxterdream
28-04-2011, 08:41 AM
I would not call it promptly rediger, I live in Norway, i am a member of Swedish/Nordic rite freemasonry, and we have no Shriners or Jesters here. Nor are any of the aforementioned rituals in use nor have been in use in Norway. What Shriners in USA do is not something I will take in as a flaw with my masonry. I will however say that I would not care to be a member of an organisation who did those kind of silly/stupid rituals in my view.
All the Norwegian rituals are available in the book "Frimurerenes hemmeligheter" by Roger Karsten Aase. Released on Kagge forlag in Norway.

We follow a completely different system than all the other rites, with 11(arguably 13) degrees. Nor do we have any other organisations that we cross over to later or at different stages.

eppyone
28-04-2011, 02:07 PM
I am a Shriner. I remember when I was initiated, it was something for sure.

I had dinner at Golden Corral with a bunch of old men and thier wives while they talked about the upcoming electric bill. After that, I went to a dark and mysterious room(inside Golden Coral. LOL.)and none of the shit that is on this board happened. I was iniated in about ten minutes. Nothing to see here, move on. Boring.

Well, ya'll wanted proof, there it is. Plain and simple. But ya'll won't accept that will you? It's got to be dark and dismal doesn't it? Yeah, plain and boring is nothing to talk about, gotta make shit up. But, go ahead, it makes for a good laugh anyway!

lord tsukasa
28-04-2011, 03:33 PM
We follow a completely different system than all the other rites, with 11(arguably 13) degrees. Nor do we have any other organisations that we cross over to later or at different stages.

Still, the Shriners and the Jesters are Masonic organizations. That cannot be denied.

And it is interesting to me that the Swedish/Nordic Rite has 11 or 13 degrees, as both of these numbers have strong and well-known significance in the occult.

In fact, Bill Cooper (Former ONI agent) wrote in Behold A Pale Horse:
The numbers 3, 7, 9, 11, 13, 39 and any multiple of these numbers have special meaning to the Illuminati.

I am a Shriner. I remember when I was initiated, it was something for sure.

That provides an explanation for your embarrassing display of childish sarcasm on Enlighten_Me's thread.

Now, now, you don't want to represent the Craft in such a poor way, do you?


I had dinner at Golden Corral with a bunch of old men and thier wives while they talked about the upcoming electric bill. After that, I went to a dark and mysterious room(inside Golden Coral. LOL.)and none of the shit that is on this board happened. I was iniated in about ten minutes. Nothing to see here, move on. Boring.

It is unreasonable to assume that because your Shriner group did not engage in Hazing rituals, no such rituals are practiced by Shriners or Jesters anywhere. I don't think anyone would suggest that every Mason is "in" with the Illuminati or engages in such things.

Simply stating that you had a harmless experience does not debunk the strong case presented by Lux. He has presented evidence. Have you actually read his posts? The existence of the electric mat and bench were confirmed by a video-tape ordered and examined by a court of law. The cited witness was telling the truth. How does your experience even have anything to do with this case?

eppyone
28-04-2011, 04:02 PM
Because it was ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.

See if you can understand this. I'm not saying those things did not happen. I'm not even going to say that Freemason's did not do those things. But I will say that Freemasonry DOES NOT teach or imply to do ANY of those things. IF they did those things, it was of thier own free will and accord. Quit blaming Freemasony for what sick-mided men have thought up. This is the exact reason not everyone can(or should) be a Mason. Even though most on this board can't get over that fact. Someone was not guarding the west gate good enough in this case.

By the way, you may be happy to know that a movement has begun to seperate the Shriner's from Freemasonry. Something I'm not sure I disagree with.

eppyone
28-04-2011, 04:14 PM
In fact, Bill Cooper (Former ONI agent) wrote in Behold A Pale Horse:
The numbers 3, 7, 9, 11, 13, 39 and any multiple of these numbers have special meaning to the Illuminati.
I'm sorry for being so childish, but pray tell, how would anyone know such deep secrets about such a secretive lot?

thelonious
28-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Still, the Shriners and the Jesters are Masonic organizations. That cannot be denied.

Actually it can be. The Shriners are a separate and independent organization that, of it's own volition, limits its members to Freemasons. In that sense, it could be called a "Masonic" organization.

On the other hand, there is a movement growing within the Shrine to open its doors to non-Masons. This has been propsed several times, and is gaining more and more support. I predict that eventually it will pass, and the Shrine will no longer require its candidates to be Masons.

Since the Shrine does not confer Masonic degrees, it is not "Masonic" in the technical sense, and therefore can divorce itself from Freemasonry at any time.



It is unreasonable to assume that because your Shriner group did not engage in Hazing rituals, no such rituals are practiced by Shriners or Jesters anywhere.

Hazing is quite common in Shrine initiations. The Shrine initiation is, in fact, little more than a grown-up version of the drunken frat boy scenario. Some Shrines are eliminating this sort of stuff, but most still practice it.

lord tsukasa
28-04-2011, 04:53 PM
I'm sorry for being so childish, but pray tell, how would anyone know such deep secrets about such a secretive lot?

That isn't a childish question. I don't take issue with disagreements or questions. I simply found your earlier sarcasm insulting.

It is known that 3, 7, 9, 11, and 13 have strong significance in the occult. I am unaware of significance of "39", but I do know that "93" ("39" reversed) has strong significance. Perhaps Cooper was aware of the Illuminati's historical interest in occult practices and assumed that this was the reason why these numbers frequently appear when one examines notorious conspiracies, such as the Kennedy hit.

Another possible reason for Cooper's statement is that he was an ONI briefing officer and a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Masonic organization. As a Naval Intelligence agent, he claimed to have access to a number of documents that validated various claims about the Illuminati, and might have read about their numerical interests from one of those files.

He was reportedly harassed by government agents and shot dead by police officers in 2001, allegedly for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

Here's a Canadian Grand Lodge's attack against him:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/cooper_m.html

Judge for yourself.

After the sentence about "3, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 39", Cooper provides some examples:

Notice that the Bilderberg Group has core of 39 members who are broken into 3 groups of 13 members in each group. Notice that the core of 39 answers to the 13 who make up the Policy Committee. Take special notice that the 13 members of the Policy Committee answer to the Round Table of Nine. You know that the original number of states in the United States of America was 13. The Constitution has 7 articles and was signed by 39 members of the Constitutional Convention.

The United States was born on July 4, 1776. July is the 7th month of the year. Add 7 (for July) and 4 and you have 11; 1+7+7+6 = 21, which is a multiple of 3 and 7. Add 2+1 and you get 3. Look at the numbers in 1776 and you see two 7s and a 6, which is a multiple of 3. Coincidence, you say? For those of you who still say it's accidental, however, I offer the following evidence I could write a book just on numerical links, but I won't.

Manly P. Hall, 33rd-degree Mason, probably the most renowned expert on these subjects, wrote in his book The Secret Destiny of America, "For more than three thousand years, secret societies have labored to create the background of knowledge necessary to the establishment of an enlightened democracy among the nations of the world...all have continued...and they still exist, as the Order of the Quest. Men bound by a secret oath to labor in the cause of world democracy decided that in the American colonies they would plan the roots of a new way of life. The Order of the Quest...was set up in America before the middle of the 17th century....Franklin spoke for the Order of the Quest, and most of the men who worked with him in the early days of the American Republic were also members....Not only were many of the founders of the United States Government Masons, but they received aid from a secret and august body existing in Europe which helped them to establish this country for a particular purpose known only to the initiated few." I found these quotes in a book on page 133. When added together, 1+3+3 equal the number 7--coincidence?

lord tsukasa
28-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Actually it can be. The Shriners are a separate and independent organization that, of it's own volition, limits its members to Freemasons. In that sense, it could be called a "Masonic" organization.

On the other hand, there is a movement growing within the Shrine to open its doors to non-Masons. This has been propsed several times, and is gaining more and more support. I predict that eventually it will pass, and the Shrine will no longer require its candidates to be Masons.

Since the Shrine does not confer Masonic degrees, it is not "Masonic" in the technical sense, and therefore can divorce itself from Freemasonry at any time.

In my opinion, an organization that was founded by Freemasons, is headed by Freemasons, is based on Masonic principles, and only allows Freemasons is certainly a "Masonic" organization. Even if it opens it's doors to non-Masons, it will likely remain headed by Freemasons. Also, the fact will remain that the organization is an outgrowth of Freemasonry.

Hazing is quite common in Shrine initiations. The Shrine initiation is, in fact, little more than a grown-up version of the drunken frat boy scenario. Some Shrines are eliminating this sort of stuff, but most still practice it.

This would explain why Eppyone had a better experience than Michael Vaughn.

thelonious
28-04-2011, 05:12 PM
In my opinion, an organization that was founded by Freemasons, is headed by Freemasons, is based on Masonic principles, and only allows Freemasons is certainly a "Masonic" organization. Even if it opens it's doors to non-Masons, it will likely remain headed by Freemasons. Also, the fact will remain that the organization is an outgrowth of Freemasonry.

I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong, it's just that I want to clear up a common misunderstanding here. You're right that it was founded by Masons, and currently has an all-Masons membership. I don't agree though that it was founded on "Masonic principles". The Shriners, after all, are sort of a "party organization", and have little in common with actual Masonic orders.

Once the Masonic membership requirement is removed, over time, as more and more non-Masons become members and rise through the ranks there, Masonic affiliation will become irrelevant in the Shrine.

This would explain why Eppyone had a better experience than Michael Vaughn.

While Vaughn almost certainly exaggerated his case, and perhaps even signed on with the intent of pulling a lawsuit stunt, hazing is what the Shrine initiation is all about. Of course, everybody knows this beforehand, and they go into it with good humor.

I became a Shriner about 20 years ago. I thought at the time that the initiation was pretty childish and lame, and I saw nothing in it of interest, so I never returned. Of course, there's nothing wrong per se with being childish and lame, it just wasn't my particular thing.

baxterdream
29-04-2011, 12:55 AM
I am not sure about the significance of the actual numbers, but it goes like this: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th,8th, 9th, 10th, 10Xth, 11th, and then you can get Carl the 13th knighthood by the king of Sweden. I don't know if this helped, but most people will claim that there is only 11 degrees, but I considder this 13 different stages and therefor 13 degrees. It will take the average Mason about 20 years to get from 1St to 10th degree. I have noticed lately however that some people refer to it as 12 degrees with a potential knighthood at the end. Bearing in mind that we do not have nobility in Norway.


This is a cutting from the Norwegian lodge about serving time to gain the different degrees(grad means degree in Norwegian and år means year) I Grad i 1 år. II Grad i 1 år. III i 1 1/2 år. IV/V Grad i 2 år. VI Grad i 2 år. VII Grad i 2 1/2 år. VIII Grad i 4 år. IX Grad i 6,5-7 år. Totalt 21 år.


For those who doubt my honesty, I would like you all to say why and how I am lying so that I can give you answers back.

domino1108
29-04-2011, 01:45 AM
Secrets and lies, the game is up for the masons and their kind, the truth will out, and the cancer that has kept this damned society in chains will be broken. :p

hadabusa
29-04-2011, 02:14 AM
hi LH, very entertaining thread:)

luciferhorus
01-05-2011, 04:34 AM
Actually it can be. The Shriners are a separate and independent organization that, of it's own volition, limits its members to Freemasons. In that sense, it could be called a "Masonic" organization.

On the other hand, there is a movement growing within the Shrine to open its doors to non-Masons. This has been propsed several times, and is gaining more and more support. I predict that eventually it will pass, and the Shrine will no longer require its candidates to be Masons.

Since the Shrine does not confer Masonic degrees, it is not "Masonic" in the technical sense, and therefore can divorce itself from Freemasonry at any time.

Hazing is quite common in Shrine initiations. The Shrine initiation is, in fact, little more than a grown-up version of the drunken frat boy scenario. Some Shrines are eliminating this sort of stuff, but most still practice it.

Just to clear this up. I think that it is safe to say that it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that "hazing rituals" occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: York Rite Masonry; all of which are Masonic organisations.

Since Masonry is sectarian (many "sects" or "sections") I do not wish to suggest that "all" Freemasons are York Rite, Prince Hall, Shriner or Jester Masons; nor would I wish to suggest that no hazing takes place in other Masonic sects, merely that there does not yet appear to be any evidence of such that I am aware of, and since we are dependent on the testimonials of Masons who break their oaths to reveal such hazing rituals, such testimonials may not be forthcoming, and with regards to the York Rite Masonry, which is a major sect of Masonry, the discovery of bizarre hazing rituals is not based on testimonials of such rituals but on a police report of a murder which happened during one such hazing ritual which was meant to be a simulated execution ( http://hazingmasonic.blogspot.com/2009/03/william-james-47-shot-during-mick-rite.html. )

Generally the central argument stated by Masons who seek to distance themselves from embarassing hazing rituals is "I am not a Shriner, Jester, Prince Hall or York Rite Mason" or "my lodge does not have hazing rituals." This may well be the case that some Masonic Lodge franchises do not have such rituals, but I think it to be innapropriate to simply take a Freemason's word for it since they are under oath not to reveal such "secrets." Further denials of such sacred and holy hazing rituals are also commonly based on the "argument from ignorance" which is usually stated as "such and such a hazing ritual did not happen to me, so therefore it could not have happened to anyone;" I would not with to suggest that "all" Freemasons are deemed worthy to receive the most holy and sacred rite of having whipped cream and stawberries applied to their genitals and further there are so many different forms of these hazing rituals that I doubt if most Masons would be considered worthy to be put through through all of these most sacred and holy rites.

The Secrets of Freemasonry and Demystification.

In the modern academic field of the "Study of Religion," a general phenomenon which I have observed is that both students and academics tend to become rather "anti-religious," and I think this is quite a natural process, since as Martin Luther observed, "reason is the enemy of faith," and once one subjects the organised religions of the world to human reason, they generally come to be viewed as rather ridiculous and an insult to human reason.

Commonly, for example, a hypnotised and indoctrinated Christian will have no problem with applying human reason when it comes to ridiculing other faiths and may ridicule the Islamic offer of 72 virgins in the afterlife, or the ridiculous myths and miracles attributed to Hanunam (the Hindu monkey god) or Ganesha (the Hindu elephant god, and yet due to the process of religious hypnosis and indoctrination they are able to supend human reason and critical thinking when it comes to the myths and miracles of their own faith, and may consider it to be perfectly normal to believe the their god (Jesus) impregnated his mother in order to give birth to himself and that he and a group of first century religious fanatics could miraculously cure leprosy and blindness and raise the dead.

Similarly with Freemasonry; while non Freemasons may consider laughable, the holy and sacred Hula Hula Bull Dance, or the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, or Masonic recruits being stripped, blindfolded and having to simulate oral sex with a sausage while being jabbed in their ass with a sharp object (as has been alleged on: http://www.withoneaccord.org/assets/images/freedownloads/Shriner-1.pdf ), it does seem to be the case that Masons take their rituals rather seriously and consider them to be somewhat holy and sacred.

The "secrets" of Masonry.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/32ada90014aa.jpg

The WWW and the bookshops of Capitalism are littered with essays and books on the "secrets" of Masonry, and such studies are important in contributing to the demystification of Masonry, though many such titles are speculative and ahistorical. There are numerous bizarre accusations regarding the Freemasons which include accusing them of "Satanism" and "human sacrifice," however it seems to me that the "secrets" of Masonic ritualism are far more mundane, and that the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and other rather silly hazing rituals are hardly "Satanic."

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7e3732b226b.jpg

It would seem entirely natural that Masons would wish to keep such sacred and holy rituals "secret," if only to hide their embarrassment from non Masons and also to keep the element of surprise alive for Masonic initiates.

From a "rational" persepctive virtually all forms of religious ritual would appear to be bizarre and even silly. Having observed numerous Hindu and Christian rituals it seems to me bizarre that adults would worhip what is often essentially just an elaborately dressed plastic or wooden doll or a lingam (a phallic shaped stone which usually represents Shiva) or a statue of the "Blessed Virgin," however these are religions which are taken seriously by hundreds of millions of people.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/574f49e07eb5.jpg

Ultimately the sacred and holy Masonic rituals such as the "Hula Hula Bull Dance" or the "Golden Shower simulation (using a plastic penis and water)" may be considered as ridiculous as any other religious ritual, however such rituals are generally not considered ridiculous by the religious fanatic themselves, who are often willing to pay to be included in such rituals; this is simply all part of the memetic virus that is religion.

Holy, holy

Lucifer

http://www.normalbobsmith.com/store/fridgemagnetpage_bdsm.jpg

"Special Mayday offer: I will beat any price on Masonic hazing rituals or double your money back in the afterlife, plus 144 virgins. I will not be undercut on price for ritual humilations, cagings, forced enslavement, collaring (using a Cabletow), floggings, blindfoldings, electrocutions, beatings, mock executions, "Golden Shower" simulations, sissification (dressing the slave up as a woman), animal play (usually where the slave plays the role of a puppy dog) asphyxiation, bloodsport, body modification, branding, caning, crucifixion, caning, pny training and of course, the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals."

Please note that this offer is only available to Freemasons who have already undergone submissive training and pledged obedience to a Master (i.e., all Freemasons of the Third Degree and above).

Addendum


The Mystic Shrine Ritual
.
Another "high point" consisted of having to get down on all fours (still blindfolded) and
try to suck on a hot dog which was dangling somewhere in the general vicinity of my
face. As I was attempting to do this, I was being poked in my rear with what felt like a
pretty serious hat-pin. Additionally, I was led to believe I was being urinated on by a dog
in the face. http://www.withoneaccord.org/assets/images/freedownloads/Shriner-1.pdf

My apologies; I forgot to add "real" animal play. Why pay the Freemasons to simulate having a dog urinate on you, while you simulate oral sex with a hot dog, when you can have a "real" dog urinate on you and you can have "real" animal sex at much cheaper prices.

Disclaimer: No animals have been harmed in the making of this commercial and no animals will be harmed during the humiliation of Masonic candidates who take up my low, low prices on beatings and humilation.

offramp
02-05-2011, 07:32 PM
I have not read much of your message. It is a bit too long.
English freemasonry seems very very different from US masonry.

seercyanascens
05-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Unfortunately my current witch of a girlfriend is rather possessive and only lets me deflower priests (prior to devouring them of course) or Christian virgins.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk8ncdWg8X1qaviz3o1_500.jpg

I should point out that I have decided to add to my "I will beat any price on salvation, or double your money back in the afterlife" offer, and I am now offering BDSM style Masonic hazing and humiliation rituals at lower prices than Masonic Lodge membership and fake degree prices.

Why pay more to be stripped, blindfolded, branded, chained (with a cabletow, caged) electrocuted, beaten and humiliated, when I am offering much more severe beatings, electrocutions at low, low prices?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/4731846044_49598ebcb4.jpg

His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer

Salvation at low, low prices. I will not be beaten on price for salvation, 72 virgins in the afterlfe (I offe 144) or Masonic humiliation, beatings and hazing rituals.

http://funnymail.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/72virgins1.jpg

Well look, your offers and advertisements are ok. but not very original. The style is of course, rather dated, but the main point is that anyone interested in your services has to be stinking rich and stupid. In order to expand your customer base and make more dollar you need to try to appeal to the more reasonably balanced and discerning members of the populace. Of course you want the stinking rich and bored clientelle but target the mainstream stinking rich a bit more by removing the fetishist angle. You will need to transform the image of your products away from being seedy and perverse. This should not be too difficult since, as I am certain that you are aware, there is an innate desire within us all to be extremely rude. All that you have to do is undermine the hypocritical morality that governs polite society. Simples.

seercyanascens
06-05-2011, 12:00 AM
I am a Shriner. I remember when I was initiated, it was something for sure.

I had dinner at Golden Corral with a bunch of old men and thier wives while they talked about the upcoming electric bill. After that, I went to a dark and mysterious room(inside Golden Coral. LOL.)and none of the shit that is on this board happened. I was iniated in about ten minutes. Nothing to see here, move on. Boring.

Well, ya'll wanted proof, there it is. Plain and simple. But ya'll won't accept that will you? It's got to be dark and dismal doesn't it? Yeah, plain and boring is nothing to talk about, gotta make shit up. But, go ahead, it makes for a good laugh anyway!

Hello eppyone. My brother is a Mason, do not know what level, he keeps that secret and pretends that as far as he is aware there are only three levels of attainment in the entire structure. Because of this it is perfectly clear to me that he is a liar and a deceiver. He assumes exactly the same stance as do you. ie. there are no hidden agendas, it is just a bunch of blokes massaging their ego's in fantasy for a short period of time. My question is this. Is this one of the listed, suggested, accepted and passed down methods of diffusing the fear about Freemasonry in the general population? You keep telling us that there is no secrecy or backstage manouvrings so what the fuck is the point of the exercise? Why do you not re-name Freemasonry as an Open Society and allow anybody to join without vetting or nomination?

oilydoyley
06-05-2011, 12:13 AM
we are all in chains and slaves to the rulers.

check out the front of your passports on the coat of arms and the unicorn in chains.

seercyanascens
06-05-2011, 03:03 AM
Unfortunately my current witch of a girlfriend is rather possessive and only lets me deflower priests (prior to devouring them of course) or Christian virgins.



Well I hope for your sake that she does not read the above quote because if I were her I would be taking it to mean that your relationship was at best transitory, and sufferable only for the few advantages that it affords for as long as you consider them as such. I fully expect her to be consulting her book of spells to pre-determine the justice that she considers appropriate at the time that you decide to make her your ex witch of a girlfriend. If I were you I should try to be a little bit more diplomatic. That is if you do not wish to be eaten out from the inside by the emergence of a huge colony of Praying Mantis Lavae. Hope that this does not rock your boat old chap.

eppyone
06-05-2011, 02:34 PM
Hello eppyone. My brother is a Mason, do not know what level, he keeps that secret and pretends that as far as he is aware there are only three levels of attainment in the entire structure. Because of this it is perfectly clear to me that he is a liar and a deceiver. He assumes exactly the same stance as do you.
Here we can see that you are making a statement that you will not accept my answer. True, you have not called me a liar, but you have compared me to someone you believe to be a liar. Why would you want me to answer your question? It is obvious that any answer I give will not be satisfactory.

My question is this.
See above.

Why do you not re-name Freemasonry as an Open Society and allow anybody to join without vetting or nomination?
First of all, it is not up to me. Second of all, we ALL already belong to what you are describing, it's called the human race.

edelweiss pirate
06-05-2011, 02:46 PM
No Mason is the "slave" of any Master. We come to Freemasonry of our own free will and accord. e.


What degree are you?

At the 3rd degree you become aware of the true nature of freemasonry and the depth of your slavery.

By the time you are initiated for the 3rd degree it's too late to turn back even if you wanted to because of the terror induced by the ritual.

thelonious
06-05-2011, 04:08 PM
What degree are you?

At the 3rd degree you become aware of the true nature of freemasonry and the depth of your slavery.

By the time you are initiated for the 3rd degree it's too late to turn back even if you wanted to because of the terror induced by the ritual.

Anybody who thinks that "terror is induced by the rituals" in Freemasonry needs to go on meds.

In actuality, the rituals of Freemasonry are very beautiful, and allegoriaclly and dramatically present serious philosophical concepts of great value to those who pursue wisdom.

edelweiss pirate
06-05-2011, 04:15 PM
Anybody who thinks that "terror is induced by the rituals" in Freemasonry needs to go on meds.

In actuality, the rituals of Freemasonry are very beautiful, and allegoriaclly and dramatically present serious philosophical concepts of great value to those who pursue wisdom.

Tell us about them then.

Give us details please.

BTW which is the beautiful ritual where the guy gets shot in the head... or the one where the Black GI gets beaten to death by paddles....


Beautiful... yeah right.

You're crackers.

cnumb
06-05-2011, 04:52 PM
Tell us about them then.

Give us details please.

BTW which is the beautiful ritual where the guy gets shot in the head... or the one where the Black GI gets beaten to death by paddles....


Beautiful... yeah right.

You're crackers.

No mate. You're crackers.

Shooting and/or paddles doesn't feature anywhere in regular masonic ritual.

cnumb
06-05-2011, 04:56 PM
What degree are you?

At the 3rd degree you become aware of the true nature of freemasonry and the depth of your slavery.

By the time you are initiated for the 3rd degree it's too late to turn back even if you wanted to because of the terror induced by the ritual.

The 3rd degree is about as terrifying as a box of cornflakes. Truly heart attack inducing stuff.

Please stop spouting about stuff you clearly have no idea about. Good boy.

marpat
06-05-2011, 04:56 PM
What degree are you?

At the 3rd degree you become aware of the true nature of freemasonry and the depth of your slavery.

By the time you are initiated for the 3rd degree it's too late to turn back even if you wanted to because of the terror induced by the ritual.

And what terror would this be? I went through it and was not scared in any way. Obviously as an outsider you dont have a clue what you are saying

marpat
06-05-2011, 04:58 PM
Tell us about them then.

Give us details please.

BTW which is the beautiful ritual where the guy gets shot in the head... or the one where the Black GI gets beaten to death by paddles....


Beautiful... yeah right.

You're crackers.

I take it you managed to find some weed in Cyprus then

marpat
06-05-2011, 05:02 PM
I believe the Roman Catholic church started Masonry originally

If this were true then surely you can furnish us with proof that the pope was at one point the supreme authority on freemasonry

luciferhorus
06-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Forwarded from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread695410/pg3#pid11273297

Originally posted by network dude

no Lucy, it doesn't work like that. Masonry is the same all over the world. The Obligations are the same. If we all are into BDSM then I am afraid that includes dear old dad.


Since you seem to be implying that British Masons are also involved in homoerotic BDSM rituals, I will repost this response on the "secret societies" forum of http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=167019&page=5 where there is a major contingent of British contributers who are Freemasons, and see what they make of such allegations.

The Shriner Masonic cult has only just recently arrived in the UK and I find no evidence that the Jester Masonic cult is here yet; if you do have any evidence that British Masonic cultists are involved in the most sacred and holy rites which include the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., then please present that evidence here and I will post it on British discussion boards where this topic is being discussed.


He had the cable tow once, twice, three times about him. So he was involved as much as any mason on earth with the ritual you seem to hope has to do with gay BDSM. Ask him about it. Tell him what you think and then let him explain it to you. But, no, you won't do that, you think you know everything. Plus you sure wouldn't want daddy to see the insane gay ramblings of his boy on this site or any other. I checked, they do sell whipped cream in the UK as well. Again, does Mom see any problem with this at all?[editby]edit on 6-5-2011 by network dude because:

Even if we set aside the the most sacred and holy rites of American Masonry such as the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., then I still consider the Freemasons to be a sect of the vile and diabolical religion that is the memetic virus of Christianity. There are numerous Capitalist gangs, such as the Hell's Angels, the Triads, the Yakuza, the Russian and Italian Mafia, etc., which have similar religious or pseudo religious rituals and which involve obedience oaths to a Master and other similar religious cults where hypnotised and indoctrinated acolytes often consider themselves to be sacred Christian knights of a holy order; similarly. I am quite sure that many of the priests Catholic Inquistion genuinely believed that they were "Holy Warriors" for their diabolical "God."


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer
edit on 6-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: "Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem (The Devil made me do it)"

eppyone
06-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Since you seem to be implying that British Masons are also involved in homoerotic BDSM rituals,
Do you really believe that is what he is implying?

luciferhorus
06-05-2011, 06:50 PM
Do you really believe that is what he is implying?

No of course not. I am being satirical.

Hazing rituals, electrocutions, BDSM style sexual humiliation and assorted drunken revelry with prostitutes and strippers appears to be commonplace in American Freemasonry, but I find no evidence of this in British Masonry at all; however since the Shriner Masons have opened a British branch of their cult and are seeking to recruit British Masons, the most sacred and holy rites which include the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., may well be introduced into British Masons.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/FreemasonsDukeMOS_228x440.jpg

I do notice in the cited post below that one may go from "profane" to "Shriner" in a single day; thus it seems that if one is not a Shriner that one is simply part of the profane, unwashed, uninitiated rabble; I wonder when His Royal Highness, the Duke the of Kent is gong to become one of the "elect" who has been made holy by the sacred application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and the holy electric shock initiations.

To be fair to the British Freemasons, though they do tend to be, with very few exceptions, an organised gang of ideological Capitalists, anti-Communists, and evangelical defenders and apologists for the International Dictatorship of Capitalism, and Anglo-Americna state terrorism, narco-terrorism, economic imperialism and assorted genocidal mayhem, it is my impression that many of them seem to consider the behaviour of their American cousins with a degree of contempt.

I don't really wish to imply that these silly hazing rituals and the sex parties which are endemic to American Masonry is the core of the problem; the study of almost all major religious cults includes the study of silly rituals and bizarre behaviour which is generally considered ridiculous to those who are immune from religious hypnosis and indoctrination; the Freemasons appear to be a core Christian cult at the heart of the military and economic dictatorship of Capitalism who consider themselves to be holy and sacred knights of the diabolical god of Capitalism, which is essentially the vile Christian deity.

Lux



Re: Be A Shriner

http://www.lodgeroomuk.com/forumphpBB/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7625

There will be a Shrine initiation ceremony in central London on the afternoon of Saturday 19 June (2010). Membership qualification here is paid-up Master Mason in a Lodge recognised by UGLE. Membership including initiation and fezz costs about £150. Ongoing membership costs about £100 including donation to the hospitals. Shrine initiations are not tyled, initiates may bring non-masonic guests, wives and children are particularly encouraged to attend.

Enquiries are welcome here, or directly to me.

S&F, Julian
London Shrine Club
Past president of various UK Shrine organisations


Re: Be A Shriner
by gord_vokes » Sun May 23, 2010 6:20 pm

asabovesobelow wrote:
Is there a Shriner in You? Take the tour - http://www.beashrinernow.com/

The gl of penn now offers a day program where you can go from profane at 8am to shriner by 5pm.
http://www.pagrandlodge.org/gmaster/oneday.html

One Day Class
October 30th 2010
Time Schedule


6:00 - 7:45 a.m. Registration of Candidates (coffee and donuts provided)
8:00 - 8:05 a.m. Grand Lodge Opens, in each location
8:05 - 9:05 a.m. Entered Apprentice Mason Degree Conferral
9:05 - 9:25 a.m. Entered Apprentice Education
9:25 - 9:45 a.m. Break
9:45 - 10:30 a.m. Fellowcraft Mason Degree Conferral
10:30 - 10:50 a.m. Fellowcraft Education
10:50 - 11:05 a.m. Break
11:05 - 12:15 p.m Master Mason Degree Conferral
12:15 - 1:00 p.m. Lunch
1:00 - 1:20 p.m. Master Masons Education
1:20 - 1:30 p.m. Grand Lodge Closes
1:30 - 1:45 p.m. York Rite Information Session
1:45 - 2:00 p.m. Break
2:00 - 3:25 p.m. Scottish Rite Class, for those who wish to join
3:25 - 3:40 p.m. Break
3:40 - 5:05 p.m. Shrine, for those who wish to join

edelweiss pirate
06-05-2011, 06:59 PM
No of course not. I am being satirical.

Hazing rituals, electrocutions, BDSM style sexual humiliation and assorted drunken revelry with prostitutes and strippers appears to be commonplace in American Freemasonry, but I find no evidence of this in British Masonry at all; however since the Shriner Masons have recently opened a British wing of their cult and are seeking to recruit British Masons, this behaviour may well become commonplace in the future in British Masonry.



Although sex with children seems to be an aspect of UK freemasonry.

There was a news story a while back about it.

eppyone
06-05-2011, 07:25 PM
No of course not. I am being satirical.

Hazing rituals, electrocutions, BDSM style sexual humiliation and assorted drunken revelry with prostitutes and strippers appears to be commonplace in American Freemasonry, but I find no evidence of this in British Masonry at all; however since the Shriner Masons have opened a British branch of their cult and are seeking to recruit British Masons, the most sacred and holy rites which include the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., may well be introduced into British Masons.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/FreemasonsDukeMOS_228x440.jpg

I do notice in the cited post below that one may go from "profane" to "Shriner" in a single day; thus it seems that if one is not a Shriner that one is simply part of the profane, unwashed, uninitiated rabble; I wonder when His Royal Highness, the Duke the of Kent is gong to become one of the "elect" who has been made holy by the sacred application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and the holy electric shock initiations.

Lux
I assure you, what you describe is not "commonplace" in the States. It may well happen, but not as much as you imply. One incident only comes to mind. I think you have posted this more times than it has actually happened. But enough of that, it really doesn't matter much to me.

What is interesting to me, is the fact that many on this forum latch on to stories like the BDSM story you have cited. Whether true or not, it is an isolated event, but you have posted and re-posted the same information over and over again. I'm having trouble "getting" your humor, so I have to wonder why you keep on about this.

eppyone
06-05-2011, 07:28 PM
Although sex with children seems to be an aspect of UK freemasonry.

There was a news story a while back about it.

I don't know if it's an aspect of the UK or not, but it is not an aspect of Freemasonry.

luciferhorus
06-05-2011, 07:32 PM
Although sex with children seems to be an aspect of UK freemasonry.

There was a news story a while back about it.

I think that there is ample evidence that British Masonry is an organised gang of Capitalists who are the British equivalent of the Russian and Italian Mafia, but I am reluctant to accuse them of anything falsely.

I think that there is quite convincing evidence that there "are" organised establishment paedophile and sex trafficking gangs, but I am reluctant to point the finger at Freemasonry.

Certainly it can be proven beyind all reasonable doubt that the Freemasons were running a protection racket for the Soho brothels and sex shop in periods where such activity was not sctictly legal, but I don't think that this is the case in 2011, or at least I am not aware of any evidence of this.

http://www.qlineorientalist.com/IranRises/wp-content/plugins/2009/07/peter_sellers_inspector_clouseau_pi3.jpg

I spent a about a year working with an investment banker in the rather shady world of London'd investment banking community and frankly it is a very "dirty" world of criminal gangs and drug's money laundering; even a buffon like the fictional "Inspector Clouseau" could not help but notice the endemic high level drug's money laundering and ganster Capitalism which is endemic in London's financial sector, and the Freemasons and their institutions appear to be at the top of the food chain in that sector; it is just a criminal gang which has gained respectibility by recruiting from the police, judiciary, military and financial sectors.
.
Lux



http://www.tpuc.org/node/34

. .'Blair covering up paedophile scandal?'

While British Prime Minister Tony Blair is under criminal suspicion in the "honours-for-cash" scandal that has rocked his Labour government, we have been told that there is an even more explosive scandal that Blair, up to now, has managed to hide behind the draconian British policy of issuing "D-Notices," government orders that prohibit the British media from reporting on certain "national security" cases.

In 1999, an international investigation of child pornographers and paedophiles run by Britain's National Criminal Intelligence Service, code named Operation Ore, resulted in 7,250 suspects being identified in the United Kingdom alone. Some 1850 people were criminally charged in the case and there were 1451 convictions. Almost 500 people were interviewed "under caution" by police, meaning they were suspects. Some 900 individuals remain under investigation. In early 2003, British police began to close in on some top suspects in the Operation Ore investigation, including senior members of Blair's government.




However, Blair issued a D-Notice, resulting in a gag order on the press from publishing any details of the investigation. Blair cited the impending war in Iraq as a reason for the D-Notice. Police also discovered links between British Labour government paedophile suspects and the trafficking of children for purposes of prostitution from Belgium and Portugal (including young boys from the Casa Pia orphanage in Portugal).

Tony Blair: stifling investigations of paedophiles in his Labour government.

In the United States, Operation Ore's counterpart was Operation Avalanche. However, U.S. authorities only charged 100 people out of 35,000 investigated. The international paedophile investigation began when Dallas police and the US Postal Inspection Service raided the offices of Landslide Productions of Fort Worth, Texas and confiscated records on thousands of people around the world who were child pornography customers of the firm. Landslide's halcyon days as a Fort Worth-based international online marketplace of kiddie porn was during the term of Texas Governor George W. Bush.

WMR has learned that the Bush administration, like that of Blair, is rife with paedophiles in top positions. The paedophile network also extends to the U.S. defense industry, particularly some of the companies that have been involved in the sexual abuse of minors at overt and covert U.S. prisons in Abu Ghraib, Iraq; Guantanamo, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Thailand, and now, at three prisons in Ethiopia.


Source: Wayne Madsen




'commons clerk on trial after IT find thousands of images of children performing sexual acts'



Tony Blair's closest confidante's is a practising paedophile, are even suggesting that this particular scandal, and not Blair's repeated lies and fabricated reports in regard to Iraq, may well prove the downfall of a government mired in sleaze and corruption.



The Sunday Times is reported to have obtained an FBI list of Labour MPs who have used credit cards to pay for internet child pornography, and Blair has responded by imposing a massive news blackout, failing however to stop the arrest of one of his most important aides, Phillip Lyon.

Lyon used his computer "to pursue his interest and perhaps curiosity in this type of material. He searched for it on the internet and, when found, downloaded it for his delectation later", said Ms Karmy-Jones.

Lyon, 38, from Stanford le Hope in Essex, denies 12 specimen charges of making an indecent image of a child between October 2001 and April 2002. "It is like a drug, you try one and you want to try something harder, and it has a snowball effect," he is alleged to have told officers when arrested.

Lyon worked in the Upper Table Office, where he met MPs, the Speaker, and Deputy Speaker while checking parliamentary questions and administering early day motions. "He needed skills in computing and the internet," said Ms Karmy-Jones. "He is an intelligent individual, and knew full well what he was doing." When first interviewed, he allegedly told police he did not distribute material - "I just look at pictures."

Ms Karmy-Jones told jurors: "This case is about child pornography - what others might call photos of child abuse. When I say child abuse, it may sound harsh, but it is the nature of these images which is central to the case. They are unpleasant and disturbing."

She said the issue might be whether it was Lyon who downloaded the images. "We say it is clear he was that man."

Under Blair's government paedophiles get off with a slap on the wrist 'Proof'



There is a lot more here that is being exposed. We already know about Lord


George Robertson's (ex UK Defence Secretary 1997/98 and Sec Gen of Nato) links with Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane), procurer of young boys and a massive British establishment [Masonic] cover up.



Blair government insider Lord Robertson has threatened to sue Scotland's leading independent newspaper over internet allegations that he not only used his influence as a Freemason to procure a gun licence for child killer Thomas Hamilton, but was also a member of a clandestine paedophile ring reportedly set up by Hamilton for the British elite. On 13 March 1996, Hamilton, armed with four hand-guns, opened fire on a junior school class, killing 16 children and one teacher before turning the gun on himself, shattering forever the idyllic 13th century Scottish town of Dunblane. Lord Robertson was the referee on Thomas Hamilton's shotgun licence. [FACT]



Blair government, which has already issued a D-Notice to gag the press from revealing the names of known paedophiles within the British executive, including at least two senior ministers; and the case highlights the government's NATO boss and Blair government insider Lord Robertson has threatened to sue Scotland's leading independent newspaper over internet allegations that he not only used his influence as a Freemason to procure a gun licence for child killer Thomas Hamilton, but was also a member of a clandestine paedophile ring reportedly set up by Hamilton for the British elite.




Tony Blair's closest confidante's is a practising paedophile, are even suggesting that this particular scandal, and not Blair's repeated lies and fabricated reports in regard to Iraq, may well prove the downfall of a government mired in sleaze and corruption. The Sunday Times is reported to have obtained an FBI list of Labour MPs who have used credit cards to pay for internet child pornography, and Blair has responded by imposing a massive news blackout, failing however to stop the arrest of one of his most important aides, Phillip Lyon.



The latest allegations came to light following a campaign to lift the secrecy on the Dunblane massacre. Large sections of the police report were banned from the public domain under a 100-year secrecy order. Lord Cullen, an establishment insider, also omitted and censored references to the documents in his final report. Parents and teachers were advised to concentrate their efforts on a campaign to outlaw handguns instead of focusing on how the mentally unstable Freemason, already known by the police to be a paedophile, had obtained a firearms licence for six handguns. Hamilton allegedly enjoyed good relations with both local Labour luminary George Robertson and Michael Forsyth, the then Scottish Secretary of State and MP for Stirling. Forsyth congratulated and encouraged Hamilton for running a boy's club. Hamilton was also found to have exchanged letters with the British monarch, Queen Elizabeth.




Now where in this is there a national security risk so great, that documents part of the public enquiry are now state secrets to be held for 100 years? Funny kind of public enquiry. Why, when Thomas Hamilton's application for a gun licence was turned down, due to him being regarded as a man of unsound character [and] him being the object of several paedophilia investigations, did his MP, our friend George Robertson (now Lord Robertson, Secretary-General of NATO), write him a glowing character reference, and personally see to it that his application was successful, when he knew the grounds for the original refusal were because he was suspected of procuring boys for sexual services?"



Dunblane may have been just over 11 years ago, but the questions still loom, that have to be answered.

1.No proper Autopsy and no inquest on Hamilton?



2. Reasons unknown - Shoots Kids? - was he a scape goat to get rid of evidence of a paedophile ring of MP's and Mason's in Scotland? - there seems to be mounting evidence to prove this theory.



3. Receives Shotgun Licence even though he was turned down by normal channels - Why was Lord Robertson not prosecuted for refereeing his application?



4. Why did he shoot himself with a different gun from the one he shot the kid's with, even though the first gun still hand rounds in it? - strange to say the least.


.....
. Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell - Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

. Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys - Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on childre

. Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor - Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

. Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) Christopher Pilkington - Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

. Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy - Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

. Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan - Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

. Tory Party Liaison Manager on the London Assembly, Douglas Campbell, who's job includes running the Tory GLA website - Arrested for allegedly downloading child porn. He is currently suspended while the Police investigation continues.

. Tory Party Councillor (Folkestone - in Leader, Michael Howard's constituency), Robert Richdale - 41 year history of crime, involving 30 convictions and 5 prison sentences. Richdales enormous criminal record, which covers 10 pages of A4 paper, includes convictions for assault, theft, causing death by dangerous driving, forgery, drugs offences, possession of an offensive weapon, and sex attacks against underage schoolgirls. The Tory Party election campaign literature described Richdale as "a family man" who had a "compassionate personality"

. Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe) Martin Locklyn - Convicted and jailed for 15 years for sexually abusing 3 14-year-old boys.

. Labour Councillor (North Lincolnshire) David Spooner - Convicted and jailed for 1 year for masturbating in front of 2 young boys.

. Labour Mayor (Westhoughton/Lancashire) Nicholas Green - Convicted and jailed for 10 years for 3 rapes and 13 counts of indecent assault against little girls between the age of 6 and 10. He raped one woman on her wedding day.

. Prominent Labour Party activist Mark Tann (who has met Tony & Cherie at Party functions) recently got a 15-year sentence for raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions.

. Entire Labour Party conspired to conceal the activities of Labour Party activist and serial child-molester Mark Trotter, who died from AIDS before he could be convicted.

. Labour Councillor (Manchester), George Harding - Charged with indecent assault on a girl of 12.

. According to media reports, the names of 2 former Labour Cabinet Ministers said to be `Household names` appear on the `Operation Ore ` list of subscribers to hard-core child pornography. The same FBI investigation, which led to the arrest of rock star Pete Townshend. So who are they Mr Blair?

. William Straw - Son of Labour Foreign Secretary, and former Home Secretary - Jack Straw, was cautioned by Police for drug dealing, amid a frantic Government attempt to cover up the matter and gag the media as to his identity. Jack Straw also has a brother who was convicted of a sex attack on a schoolgirl. Lovely family!

. Homosexual mass murderer; Dennis Nielsen, who strangled and dismembered 16 young men in the 1980`s, was also a highly active member of Labour fringe groups such as the Anti-Nazi League, and the SWP. That's when he wasn't busy boiling peoples heads in a pot, or masturbating over the corpses of his victims.

. Lib-Dem Council candidate (Tower Hamlets), Justin Sillman - Convicted and jailed for 2 years for sexual abuse of young boys.

. Lib-Dem Councillor and Mayoral Candidate ( Sheffield ), Francis Butler- Prosecuted for indecent assault of a young boy.

. Lib-Dem Councillor ( Stockport ) Neil Derbyshire - Sexually assaulted a 16-year old boy in a public toilet. He was caught with a plastic bag containing lubricant, plastic surgical gloves, a condom, and underpants.

. Lib-Dem Councillor ( Preston ), Bill Chadwick - Charged with: Making an indecent photograph of a child, Incitement to rape, Incitement to murder, Incitement to kidnap, and Incitement to torture. Chadwick's gay lover - Alan Valentine, is also a Lib-Dem councillor.

luciferhorus
06-05-2011, 07:44 PM
I assure you, what you describe is not "commonplace" in the States. It may well happen, but not as much as you imply. One incident only comes to mind. I think you have posted this more times than it has actually happened. But enough of that, it really doesn't matter much to me.

What is interesting to me, is the fact that many on this forum latch on to stories like the BDSM story you have cited. Whether true or not, it is an isolated event, but you have posted and re-posted the same information over and over again. I'm having trouble "getting" your humor, so I have to wonder why you keep on about this.

Well I don't wish to keep posting and reposting the same allegations over and over, but hazing rituals and sex parties with strippers and prostitutes are endemic to American Masonry.

I refer you to the thread " On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters," on: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg1 where in many of the 300+ posts here I have assembled numerous testimonials regarding this from Masons, ex-Masons and from FBI and police reports.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95932c322a42.jpg

With regards to why I seem to "keep on" about this, I seem to be encouraged by the cult denialism of American Masons who try to deny that such behaviour is widespread in American Masonry; anyway it is simply part of the academic study of religion, religious fanaticism and the study of a major establishment Christian sect which is Freemasonry.

When studying, for example the bizarre and totally ridiculous rituals of most religions, cultists are usuall quite happy to explain how holy and sacred such rituals are; with Freemasonry however they tend to deny the existence of their holy and sacred rituals such as the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, the "dog urination" ritual and so forth; why not just try to explain the holiness and sacredness of such rituals.

Of course I don't wish to imply that "all" Masons are deemed worthy to be initiated into such holy and ancient BDSM style hazing, electrocution and and sexual humiliation rituals.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d04778ac41eb.jpg

Usually the study of religious rituals is a study of human stupidity and can be rather dull, however the study of American Masonic initiation rituals is actually quite hilarious. Dressing initiates up in grass skirts and dangling cowbells from the genitals of this holy priesthood of Christian knights, and playing the ancient and holy Egyptian hymn, "How Dry am I (I am not drunk enough)" on them is of course a most sacred and solemn rite which has been passed down from the age of Hiram Abiff and the Temple of Solomon and is so sacred that Masons dare not even speak of it. I think that it is often the case with cult religions, that when their "secrets" are revealed by apostate cultists, that their secrets are often kept secret simply because they are so ridiculous that they are hidden from public view to avoid ridicule.

Holy, Holy.

Lux




Hazing is quite common in Shrine initiations. The Shrine initiation is, in fact, little more than a grown-up version of the drunken frat boy scenario. Some Shrines are eliminating this sort of stuff, but most still practice it....
......, hazing is what the Shrine initiation is all about. Of course, everybody knows this beforehand, .......
I became a Shriner about 20 years ago. I thought at the time that the initiation was pretty childish and lame, and I saw nothing in it of interest, so I never returned. Of course, there's nothing wrong per se with being childish and lame, it just wasn't my particular thing.

marpat
08-05-2011, 06:32 PM
Although sex with children seems to be an aspect of UK freemasonry.

There was a news story a while back about it.

Only in the minds of sick people who actually want to believe and push this.

Seems to me that you have an unhealthy obsession with such sordid things

marpat
08-05-2011, 06:35 PM
I don't know if it's an aspect of the UK or not, but it is not an aspect of Freemasonry.

EP has a obsession with these things. Look at his proof though 'there was a news story a while ago about it'!!!!! he is one of these people who thinks the media is always lying and covering up the truth and yet he is happy to accept a supposed news story on this matter. It figures doesnt it

edelweiss pirate
08-05-2011, 07:32 PM
Only in the minds of sick people who actually want to believe and push this.

Seems to me that you have an unhealthy obsession with such sordid things

Your tactics are shabby as befits a freemason pinned to the wall and exposed.

All he can do is try to smear his attacker with the shit which covers him.


The case is conclusive. Making nasty insinuations won't whitewash the reputation of your disreputable little gang of crooks and perverts.

http://thehappytruther.blogspot.com/2011/01/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo_11.html


I'm surprised the masons allow you to operate on this forum because you merely confirm all the worst stereotypes about masons:

Not too intelligent, recourse to insinuation and personal attacks, and avid followers of perverted and debauched gurus.

Keep it up lad. You're doing our job for us.

scorpio
08-05-2011, 09:03 PM
Your tactics are shabby as befits a freemason pinned to the wall and exposed.

All he can do is try to smear his attacker with the shit which covers him.


The case is conclusive. Making nasty insinuations won't whitewash the reputation of your disreputable little gang of crooks and perverts.

http://thehappytruther.blogspot.com/2011/01/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo_11.html


I'm surprised the masons allow you to operate on this forum because you merely confirm all the worst stereotypes about masons:

Not too intelligent, recourse to insinuation and personal attacks, and avid followers of perverted and debauched gurus.

Keep it up lad. You're doing our job for us.

There have been Freemasons who have been thrown out of Freemasonry because they have been convicted of criminal offences. Freemasons are not above the law. Freemasons are expected to uphold the law and take an obligation to do so.
In Scotland the number of Freemasons who have been thrown out of the craft is a very small number when compared to the membership of Freemasonry. I takre the view that one Freemason who becomes bad is one too many.

Freemasonry has the power to terminate the membership of Freemasons who becoime bad and IMHO that is the right and proper course of action.

The jails are full of people from many aspects of our society and the majority are not Freemasons. Freemasons are a society of men who are unfairly treated by people who have developed a belief that Freemasons run our society and take part in peverted avtivities.

The governing body terminates the membership of Freemasons who commit these vile crimes against people that you accuse Freemasonry of organising.
Your user name was used as a means by which German Freemasons covertly used as a means of recognition during the Nazi era.

Freemasons were murdered by the Nazis because they argued that it was a Zionist organisation. Freemasons are people who are entilted to meet in private and not to be accused of such vile and evil accusations of sexual perversion.
Scorpio the Scottish Freemason

marpat
08-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Your tactics are shabby as befits a freemason pinned to the wall and exposed.

All he can do is try to smear his attacker with the shit which covers him.


The case is conclusive. Making nasty insinuations won't whitewash the reputation of your disreputable little gang of crooks and perverts.

http://thehappytruther.blogspot.com/2011/01/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo_11.html


I'm surprised the masons allow you to operate on this forum because you merely confirm all the worst stereotypes about masons:

Not too intelligent, recourse to insinuation and personal attacks, and avid followers of perverted and debauched gurus.

Keep it up lad. You're doing our job for us.

lol, is that so. Still trying to bring it down to sexual matters again.

seercyanascens
09-05-2011, 03:08 AM
Here we can see that you are making a statement that you will not accept my answer. True, you have not called me a liar, but you have compared me to someone you believe to be a liar. Why would you want me to answer your question? It is obvious that any answer I give will not be satisfactory.


Well I have to say that you may be quite correct. My life has been made an absolute misery by Masons. I have got a huge barrier to break in order to trust the words of members of a society that has conducted the most despicable and inhuman persecution of an essentially caring and good person. I cannot trust my brother, how can I be expected to trust you....You must understand.


First of all, it is not up to me. Second of all, we ALL already belong to what you are describing, it's called the human race.

Yes but unfortunately, due to the installation of hierarchical structures, which are formed on entirely false premises by entirely false people, the power is in the hands of those least capable of using it usefully.

multisync
09-05-2011, 07:04 AM
Your tactics are shabby as befits a freemason pinned to the wall and exposed.

All he can do is try to smear his attacker with the shit which covers him.


The case is conclusive. Making nasty insinuations won't whitewash the reputation of your disreputable little gang of crooks and perverts.

http://thehappytruther.blogspot.com/2011/01/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo_11.html


I'm surprised the masons allow you to operate on this forum because you merely confirm all the worst stereotypes about masons:

Not too intelligent, recourse to insinuation and personal attacks, and avid followers of perverted and debauched gurus.

Keep it up lad. You're doing our job for us.

On your website you state that Combat 88 take orders from Masons. One of which is to go round and torch Pedophiles houses. You also suggest Masons are pedophiles. This seems odd can you explain why that would want to do this?

Secondly you state Masons often have scars on their forehead. Can you show one picture of a Mason who has such a scar

edelweiss pirate
09-05-2011, 09:01 AM
On your website you state that Combat 88 take orders from Masons. One of which is to go round and torch Pedophiles houses. You also suggest Masons are pedophiles. This seems odd can you explain why that would want to do this?

Secondly you state Masons often have scars on their forehead. Can you show one picture of a Mason who has such a scar

What a strange man you are. I am doing nothing except posting and analysing mainstream media stories, popular culture and also my own personal experiences.

We have seen in the media how masons are involved in sex traficking, internation drugs trade, theft, violent crime murder and sexual abuse of children.

All I do is bring the news stories together and find the common factors: The Freemasons.


My thesis is quite detailed and cross referenced with plenty of evidence. Masonry is a organ of corruption and control like the Mafia, and so necessarily they involve themselves in crime and evil outrages under the guise of piety charidee or community welfare. They would hardly be open and honest about their methods and intentions would they?

You can read it by clicking the 'new book' link bellow.


The third degree initiation involved the candidate being struck with a heavy blunt object and he then falls into a prepared coffin (which I also mention and cite the evidence)

There are it seems different streams of freemasonry however and possibly some of this in unfamiliar to many freemasons who are not on the fast track to illumination.

And yes comat 18 is mason controlled. I've already explained why. All these secret groups are linked with at least one chapter member being a freemason.


Now let me ask you a question.... why are you trying to pretend these news stories and the victims don't exist and never happened. Why would you do this I find it very odd indeed.

eppyone
09-05-2011, 01:46 PM
Well I have to say that you may be quite correct. My life has been made an absolute misery by Masons. I have got a huge barrier to break in order to trust the words of members of a society that has conducted the most despicable and inhuman persecution of an essentially caring and good person. I cannot trust my brother, how can I be expected to trust you....You must understand.
Of course I understand.

Yes but unfortunately, due to the installation of hierarchical structures, which are formed on entirely false premises by entirely false people, the power is in the hands of those least capable of using it usefully.
I totally agree. We just don't agree on who these false people are.

multisync
09-05-2011, 10:25 PM
What a strange man you are. I am doing nothing except posting and analysing mainstream media stories, popular culture and also my own personal experiences.

We have seen in the media how masons are involved in sex traficking, internation drugs trade, theft, violent crime murder and sexual abuse of children.

All I do is bring the news stories together and find the common factors: The Freemasons.


My thesis is quite detailed and cross referenced with plenty of evidence. Masonry is a organ of corruption and control like the Mafia, and so necessarily they involve themselves in crime and evil outrages under the guise of piety charidee or community welfare. They would hardly be open and honest about their methods and intentions would they?

You can read it by clicking the 'new book' link bellow.


The third degree initiation involved the candidate being struck with a heavy blunt object and he then falls into a prepared coffin (which I also mention and cite the evidence)

There are it seems different streams of freemasonry however and possibly some of this in unfamiliar to many freemasons who are not on the fast track to illumination.

And yes comat 18 is mason controlled. I've already explained why. All these secret groups are linked with at least one chapter member being a freemason.


Now let me ask you a question.... why are you trying to pretend these news stories and the victims don't exist and never happened. Why would you do this I find it very odd indeed.

Lets get back to the questions and perhaps address them specifically without unnecessary backstory:

On your website you state that Combat 88 take orders from Masons. One of which is to go round and torch Pedophiles houses. You also suggest Masons are pedophiles. This seems odd can you explain why they would want to do this?

Secondly you state Masons often have scars on their forehead. Can you show one picture of a Mason who has such a scar

edelweiss pirate
10-05-2011, 03:06 PM
Lets get back to the questions and perhaps address them specifically without unnecessary backstory:

On your website you state that Combat 88 take orders from Masons. One of which is to go round and torch Pedophiles houses. You also suggest Masons are pedophiles. This seems odd can you explain why they would want to do this?

Secondly you state Masons often have scars on their forehead. Can you show one picture of a Mason who has such a scar

Now you're just repeating yourself. I've dealt with your queries.

Have you never heard of initiation scars?

Would you mind telling me what your take is on 9-11?


Just want to calibrate my troll detector.

I'm pretty sure you're a mason government shill all the way down the line.


You can't really argue with my personal experiences and the news stories I've posted. I post my experiences and any research which corroborates them.

eppyone
10-05-2011, 03:28 PM
You didn't expect a real response did you multisync?

Got caught with an inconsistency in his theory, threw a question right back at you, then implied you are a troll. Talk about a Master Debator.

It does show the emotion that alot of people use to guide their actions.

eppyone
10-05-2011, 03:32 PM
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I really would love to hear more about these scars one might get upon initiation.

edelweiss pirate
10-05-2011, 03:53 PM
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I really would love to hear more about these scars one might get upon initiation.

Are you a freemason?

Which degree.... Tell us what happens at your initiations then?

Because basically so far there's just me giving info and you crooks saying 'it isn't true'.... but that's all.

Tell us about your experiences of masonic initiation then?

Many people here would love to hear about it I'm sure.

I'm just telling you what I know. I have a British army friend who was attacked in the street as part of a masonic inititiation. I've experienced the same thing myself. And there is lots of evidence for the existence of violent hazing rituals (often deadly) which you choose to ignore as 'back story'.

So what have you got to contribute? Just the usual denials.

It's not good enough.

Your credibility as an honest participant in a conversation does not exist if you do not contribute anything to that discussion.

You can't just go 'it's not true'.

Then I ask why and it's 'I'm not telling you'.

sofa king
10-05-2011, 03:59 PM
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I really would love to hear more about these scars one might get upon initiation.



I got heartburn from the stale donuts and cheap coffee. Does that count?

edelweiss pirate
10-05-2011, 04:15 PM
Here's good reading:

Architects of Deception.

http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2008/01/architects-of-deception.html

thelonious
10-05-2011, 04:28 PM
Are you a freemason?

Which degree.... Tell us what happens at your initiations then?

Because basically so far there's just me giving info and you crooks saying 'it isn't true'.... but that's all.

Actually, you've been challenged numerous times to demonstrate that you're telling your truth, but yet you seem completely unable to do it, so you then try to divert the subject by calling people challenging you childish names.

So are you a liar or what?

multisync
10-05-2011, 05:12 PM
Now you're just repeating yourself. I've dealt with your queries.

Have you never heard of initiation scars?

Would you mind telling me what your take is on 9-11?


Just want to calibrate my troll detector.

I'm pretty sure you're a mason government shill all the way down the line.


You can't really argue with my personal experiences and the news stories I've posted. I post my experiences and any research which corroborates them.

No sadly you haven't answered either question

I will repeat them just in case you have forgotten:


On your website you state that Combat 88 take orders from Masons. One of which is to go round and torch Pedophiles houses. You also suggest Masons are pedophiles. This seems odd can you explain why they would want to do this?

Secondly you state Masons often have scars on their forehead. Can you show one picture of a Mason who has such a scar

eppyone
10-05-2011, 05:14 PM
Are you a freemason?

Which degree.... Tell us what happens at your initiations then?


Yes, I am a Freemason. A Master Mason.
What happens at the initiations is inteded to do alot of things. Whatever I could tell you would be dismissed I am quite sure. I could even tell you that I got beaten in the head and you would think I was lying to you or playing some kind of game.

You can try to turn this around all you want, you got caught, and now you're mouthing off scared.
I'm just telling you what I know. I have a British army friend who was attacked in the street as part of a masonic inititiation. I've experienced the same thing myself. And there is lots of evidence for the existence of violent hazing rituals (often deadly) which you choose to ignore as 'back story'.
Show us this "lots of evidence".
Your credibility as an honest participant in a conversation does not exist if you do not contribute anything to that discussion.
Back atcha.
You can't just go 'it's not true'
Why not? All you are doing is saying "is so"!
Then I ask why and it's 'I'm not telling you'.
I took an oath not to tell. If you want to know so bad, join. If you can't join, well, I can only guess that you must have made some bad decisions in life.

cnumb
10-05-2011, 05:27 PM
I took an oath not to tell. If you want to know so bad, join. If you can't join, well, I can only guess that you must have made some bad decisions in life.

Or he could simply just purchase a readily available ritual book from any number of masonic suppliers and find out for himself what goes on. Unfortunately this won't happen because he prefers to live in a crazy world of ridiculous and unproven theories.

eppyone
10-05-2011, 05:45 PM
Here's good reading:

Architects of Deception.

http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2008/01/architects-of-deception.html
That was good reading. Well, part of it anyway.
It is not possible to control masonic lodges or other elite structures. We know that a group, which cannot be controlled, immediately begins to manipulate the press and believes that it stands above the law. The freemasons use myths as the base of their power in their war against mankind.
That tells me all I need to know about you and your kind. You want to control people, and to me, that is pathetic.

edelweiss pirate
10-05-2011, 07:42 PM
Many of these masonic secrets were revealed by an anonymous defector in the book "Sarsena".
The Old Testament is the basis of the masonic rituals. The Ameri- can masonic cabbalist Albert Pike stated: "All real masonic lodges owe their secrets and symbols to the Cabbala. Only the Cabbala confirms the union between the common and the heavenly world. It is the key to the present, the past, and the coming." As the leader of world freemasonry Pike knew what he was talking about.

Masonic rituals include sitting in a dark room, wearing sexually arousing aprons, getting shoved in the back, getting hit on the forehead, being threatened with a sword, lying in a coffin, allowing a noose to be put around one's neck and being hung up.

At the initiation into the third degree, the following gruesome ceremony is performed. The freemason is led backwards into the lodge room, which contains all kinds of symbols of death. The lights are dim. With a human skull by his side, the chairman hits the candi- date three times on the head with a hammer. The candidate is then made to lie down in a coffin and the lid is put in place. After a while of being "dead", a leading freemason says: "The corpse has already decomposed, the nails are falling off from the fingers, but with my and Cleopatra's help, we shall make him come alive again." Other freemasons knock on the coffin lid. The ceremony ends with the words: "It has been completed."





http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2008/02/architects-of-deception_06.html




"When a freemason is being initiated into the third degree he is struck on the forehead in the dark, falling back either into a coffin or onto a coffin shape design. His fellow masons lift him up and when he opens his eyes he is confronted with a human skull and crossed bones. Under this death threat how can any freemason of third degree or higher be trusted, particularly in public office? He is hoodwinked literally and metaphorically, placing himself in a cult and under a curse." Ex-masonic judge .

eppyone
10-05-2011, 08:15 PM
Masonic rituals include sitting in a dark room, wearing sexually arousing aprons, getting shoved in the back, getting hit on the forehead, being threatened with a sword, lying in a coffin, allowing a noose to be put around one's neck and being hung up.
I never thought of my Apron as being "sexually arousing", but hey, whatever works for ya pal.

marpat
10-05-2011, 09:18 PM
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I really would love to hear more about these scars one might get upon initiation.

The logic is obvious. He uses a lot of weed and gets confused between freemasons and Harry Potter

marpat
10-05-2011, 09:24 PM
I never thought of my Apron as being "sexually arousing", but hey, whatever works for ya pal.

Like I said before, the weed makes him confused. He is thinking of the comedy aprons with the suspenders, which he clearly thinks are sexually arousing otherwise he would not make such a link

It is sad when a person cannot differentiate between genuine masonic facts and utter rubbish, but that is the sort of blind idiot that inhabit this forum, claiming to be truth seekers exposing some massive conspiracy in a desperate bid to escape the dire boredom on their dull lives. The truth is that they wont accept facts because they do not fit with their silly theories, which makes them promoters of lies and falsehoods, which is especially bad for EP, who claims himself a christian.

marpat
10-05-2011, 09:26 PM
http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2008/02/architects-of-deception_06.html

Cleopatras help? wtf :D

lizzyking
10-05-2011, 10:17 PM
I never thought of my Apron as being "sexually arousing", but hey, whatever works for ya pal.

John Lennon- Whatever Gets You Through The Night - YouTube
http://youtu.be/nDqWtfL4MxQ

That's what he^ be sayin' :D

eppyone
11-05-2011, 01:50 PM
Cleopatras help? wtf :D

Well, it does change from district to district ya know. Around here, it's with Larry The Cable Guy's help (http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/video/larry-the-cable-guy-part-1-13111/1281139/).:eek:

sae629be
11-05-2011, 01:59 PM
I never thought of my Apron as being "sexually arousing", but hey, whatever works for ya pal.

I must say I've never thought of mine in that way either! Quite, quite bizarre! :confused:

tsaritsin
13-05-2011, 05:34 AM
Any Society that employs secrecy is up to no good, full stop.

And yes that includes all Governments, for they are the greatest offender.

And with ref to the OP

Yes of course your posts were removed because the Secret Societies forum on ATS is being used by the Mason's for the purpose of Recruitment, Publicity and to stifle all criticism of Freemasonry.

I thought everyone knew that,............./facepalm

lizzyking
13-05-2011, 06:59 AM
Any Society that employs secrecy is up to no good, full stop.



Really? Any Society? Up to no good? How would one know one way or the other if there is secrecy? But lets say there is some secrecy?? Can you imagine any scenarios were a group, society, or whatever, might be up to something that is actually quite good, but require some level of privacy and/or secrecy in order to shield themselves from the persecution of more powerful interests that were possibly up to something that wasn't quite so, shall we say, "wholesome"?

As a hypothetical example, say somebody belonged to a Healing Arts Society, that had an effective cure for cancer (some claim that Cannabis oil is one such effective treatment. FMI click here (http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/22-us-government-repressed-marijuana-tumor-research/) and here (http://www.nature.com/cdd/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/cdd201132a.html)), and because of the lobbying power and influence of the pharmaceutical industry and allopathic associations such as the AMA who might be more interested in profits than actual healing, the hypothetical Healing Society had to employ secrecy in order to practice their arts and avoid persecution, because they are perceived as a competitive threat against the establishment and its agenda?


And yes that includes all Governments, for they are the greatest offender.



A government that is for the people and by the people, should not be practicing secrecy, they should be transparently accountable.

This does not necessarily apply for non governmental groups.

The following concept is enshrined as a right in the First Amendment of the US Constitution: Freedom of association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And although it gets complicated, there is also the Fourth Amendment, which states:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"



Where it gets complicated is what constitutes "probable cause", but the general principle of "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated", still stands, and that is tied in with the the "freedom of association" of groups, societies, what have you, and their privacy (privacy that some would describe as "nefarious secrecy", if it suits their agenda and/or seemingly validates an individual's paranoid delusion).

marpat
13-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Well, it does change from district to district ya know. Around here, it's with Larry The Cable Guy's help (http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/video/larry-the-cable-guy-part-1-13111/1281139/).:eek:

Brilliant :D

luciferhorus
13-05-2011, 09:00 PM
I assure you, what you describe is not "commonplace" in the States. It may well happen, but not as much as you imply. One incident only comes to mind. I think you have posted this more times than it has actually happened. But enough of that, it really doesn't matter much to me.


There are numerous stories regarding hazing rituals in American Masonry; it seems to be commonplace and in Shriner Masonry, Jester Masonry and Prince Hall Masonry; the latter of which began as an African American branch of Masonry and which now seems to be common in the US military and is inter-racial; there was also a death (by shooting) at a regular Masonic Lodge in New York which happended during a hazing ritual.


What is interesting to me, is the fact that many on this forum latch on to stories like the BDSM story you have cited. Whether true or not, it is an isolated event, but you have posted and re-posted the same information over and over again. I'm having trouble "getting" your humor, so I have to wonder why you keep on about this.

It is not alleged that hazing rituals are "isolated" events in American Masonry, but that they are widespread.

I think that it assists a better understanding of Masonic cultism to when such matters are exposed; rather than an organisation of quite serious esotericists, their rituals seem to be to be either rather boring and silly or just plain ridiculous and have more in common with gang initiation rituals.

For example having read about what goes on at the notorious Yale "Skull and Bones" and other US college fraternities, they seem to be mostly rather ridiculous and childish hazing rituals and I think that this dispels the rather ridiculous Christian myth of the such fraternities being human sacrifice cultists, baby eaters or even reptiles.

It seems to me that the Freemsons are predominately just gangster Capitalists with religoius type initiation and hazing rituals, just like many other Capitalist gangs, and that men join Masonic cults primarily in the hope of rising up the Capitalist food chain, and that in the City of London in particular, where some of the leading financial institutions have their own exclusive lodges, it is almost compulsory to join the Freemasons if one wishes to advance one's career. Similarly in Russian where virtually the entire banking community is controlled by the Russian Mafia, which also has it's own religious and "obedience oath" rituals.


Lux

lizzyking
13-05-2011, 09:41 PM
This guy says Masons are Communist, Darwinian Atheists!


Atheist Freemasonry's links to Darwinism and Communism

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfg28f_atheist-freemasonry-s-links-to-darwinism-and-communism_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfg28f_atheist-freemasonry-s-links-to-darwinism-and-communism_news)

http://i53.tinypic.com/2l88dh.gif

lizzyking
14-05-2011, 09:41 AM
34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.





http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12%3A34-36&version=KJV

lizzyking
14-05-2011, 10:03 AM
The early Christians set themselves directly in opposition to the paganism which ruled the day. "Since Christians worshipped an invisible God, pagans often declared them to be atheists." (cited in "The Story of Christianity, volume 1, The Early Church to the Dawn of the Reformation", HarperCollins Publishers, 1984, p36)




Divus Julius was especially popular as a sort of imperial anti-god [Gegengott] with all those who emphatically refused to pay the necessary divine respect to the emperor of the moment, just as Christians did. Chance? Many of the shrines of Divus Julius in cities founded by Caesar or named after him are suddenly transformed into the first Churches of the Savior and Venus Temples in the same cities become Churches honoring the Virgin Mary. Chance? Caesar saw himself as the son of Venus and thus after he became divine, Venus became the mother of god. Speculation? Certainly, but without speculation based on reasonable arguments a classical historian will never get any further because of the lack of ample sources.

http://www.carotta.de/subseite/echo/vn/vnengl.html.

thelucifer
14-05-2011, 11:38 AM
Really? Any Society? Up to no good? How would one know one way or the other if there is secrecy? But lets say there is some secrecy?? Can you imagine any scenarios were a group, society, or whatever, might be up to something that is actually quite good, but require some level of privacy and/or secrecy in order to shield themselves from the persecution of more powerful interests that were possibly up to something that wasn't quite so, shall we say, "wholesome"?

As a hypothetical example, say somebody belonged to a Healing Arts Society, that had an effective cure for cancer (some claim that Cannabis oil is one such effective treatment. FMI click here (http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/22-us-government-repressed-marijuana-tumor-research/) and here (http://www.nature.com/cdd/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/cdd201132a.html)), and because of the lobbying power and influence of the pharmaceutical industry and allopathic associations such as the AMA who might be more interested in profits than actual healing, the hypothetical Healing Society had to employ secrecy in order to practice their arts and avoid persecution, because they are perceived as a competitive threat against the establishment and its agenda?



A government that is for the people and by the people, should not be practicing secrecy, they should be transparently accountable.

This does not necessarily apply for non governmental groups.

The following concept is enshrined as a right in the First Amendment of the US Constitution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association

And although it gets complicated, there is also the Fourth Amendment, which states:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"



Where it gets complicated is what constitutes "probable cause", but the general principle of "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated", still stands, and that is tied in with the the "freedom of association" of groups, societies, what have you, and their privacy (privacy that some would describe as "nefarious secrecy", if it suits their agenda and/or seemingly validates an individual's paranoid delusion).

Good post lk.

Simple truth, there is good secrecy and bad secrecy, shame people cant see the difference much less articulate it. :)

seercyanascens
14-05-2011, 08:09 PM
I got heartburn from the stale donuts and cheap coffee. Does that count?

Sofa King - I bet you have your lodge in stitches. You should do stand-up and bill yourself as the funnyest Freemason that ever crossed the chequered floor.

lizzyking
15-05-2011, 12:13 AM
Good post lk.

Simple truth, there is good secrecy and bad secrecy, shame people cant see the difference much less articulate it. :)


Thanks for the feedback, luci.

sofa king
15-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Sofa King - I bet you have your lodge in stitches. You should do stand-up and bill yourself as the funnyest Freemason that ever crossed the chequered floor.

No, just your ordinary, average smart-ass. But then again, the craft lodge is generally social. It is in the additional bodies and orders that the real work is done.

No stand-up comedians there.

luciferhorus
18-05-2011, 06:46 PM
This guy says Masons are Communist, Darwinian Atheists!

http://i53.tinypic.com/2l88dh.gif

Often the more bizarre a conspiracy theory is, and the less evidence there is of it, then more it gets promoted.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/49b2311a1684.jpg

Most Freemasons would appear to be evangelical, militant ideological Capitalists, and they appear to operate primarily as a "Capitalist gang."


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95932c322a42.jpg

Ultimately Freemasonry would appear to be a sect of the diabolical religion of Christianity who higher degrees can only be purchased by Christians; Freemasonry is of course sectarian (divided into many competing sections) and there are numerous different types of Masonic fanchises in the business of buying and selling esoteric degrees and pompous titles, but "regular Masonry" would appear to be primarily Christian and a rivival of the medieval cult of loan sharks, the Knight's Templar.


http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd5e6f00a2fa.jpg

There seems to be a Neomacarthyist tendency to accuse almost any useful enemy of being a "Communist" but it is quite surprising that this accusation is used with the Freemsons who seem represent quite the opposite of Communism, but rather ganster Capitalism.

With regards to the Freemasons being atheists, there are French Lodges such as the Grand Orient which admit atheists, however all "regular" Masonic Lodges require their initiates to have a belief in humankind's most diabolical enemy, God, and it would seem to me, based on the behaviour of the Masons that they define their God as a Capitalist. anti-Communist, imperilaist state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborating deity (for who else would live them); i.e., a Capitalist Devil.

Lux

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc1ee6dc54d5.jpg

lizzyking
18-05-2011, 08:43 PM
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/49b2311a1684.jpg




I dunno, I think Freemasons are job security for conspiracy theorists who have websites and sell books, since nobody can seem to really agree on their diabolical nature. They are either evil atheists, or evil Christians, or evil Satanists, or Luciferian, or they walk like Egyptians worshiping aliens from the Sirius and Pleiades galaxies who are coming to harvest us soon for the essence of our pineal glands after we've performed hard labor mining the planet for them.

luciferhorus
19-05-2011, 12:06 AM
I dunno, I think Freemasons are job security for conspiracy theorists who have websites and sell books, since nobody can seem to really agree on their diabolical nature.

Well bear in mind that some of the best selling authors in the professional conspiracy theory business are Freemasons themselves, such as Michael Baigent, Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.

They are either evil atheists, or evil Christians, or evil Satanists, or Luciferian, or they walk like Egyptians worshiping aliens from the Sirius and Pleiades galaxies who are coming to harvest us soon for the essence of our pineal glands after we've performed hard labor mining the planet for them.

My position is that they are "evil Christians" and that Christianity is a diabolical, primitive, barbaric and tryannical faith. The Masons essentially appear to operate as a gang of gangster Capitalists, however for those who are ideologically Capitalist, that is generally defined as "good behaviour;" thus my judgement on the Freemasons as being just another "evil" gang of gangster Capitalists like the Yakuza or the Russian Mafia is unlikely to be shared by other ideological Capitalists; even with the Christian religious fanatics who accuse the Masons of being "Satanists," the term "Satanist" is usually just a term they use to refer to competing "enemy" religions in the multi-billion dollar Jesus business.

Lux

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 01:07 AM
My position is that they are "evil Christians" and that Christianity is a diabolical, primitive, barbaric and tryannical faith. The Masons essentially appear to operate as a gang of gangster Capitalists



Okay, I understand that is your position, but I also understand that yours is just one of many "positions" or conspiracy related theories.

Here is another theory, about the origins of Liberation Theology.

Liberation theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some conspiracy theorists claim Freemasons started Marxist Liberation Theology, and plotted Pope assassinations.


The Roman Curia was correct. Instead of the Jesuits penetrating the Masonic Order, Freemasonry penetrated the Jesuits. Malachi Martin suggests that Freemasonry infiltrated the Jesuit Order throughout the last century, the effects of which were finally manifest during Father General Arrupe's administration. He confirms that many of the Jesuits are now Masons. The late Father Arrupe was also a Mason. Martin documents that the Marxist "Liberation Theology," backed by the Jesuits in South America, is Masonic in origin.

The Masonic Murder of a Modern Pope

The current involvement of Catholic priests, other than Jesuits, in Freemasonry is documented by David Yallop in his contemporary book, In God's Name. His book is subtitled An Investigation into the Assassination of Pope John Paul I. Yallop reveals startling information that incriminates Freemasonry in the death of the first John Paul. He notes the mysterious correlation between the 33 degrees of Masonry and the time of the new pope's death: "Sometime during the late evening of September 28, 1978, and the early morning of September 29, 1978, thirty-three days after his election, Albino Luciani [Pope John Paul I] died."


Source link for PDF file: http://www.mediafire.com/?myqcnuajr1w



And this source also makes such claims.


Church World Service, an arm of the National Council of Churches, engages in political advocacy AND contributes churchgoer funds to programs designed to further strategic goals of governments with which CWS leaders sympathize. For example, CWS contributed nearly half a million dollars to Vietnam's concentration camps for "political undesirables." In 1973, at a time when the Masonic Jesuits in South America began their 'Liberation Theology," the CWS embarked on a new direction committing funds to "liberation and justice" (Reader's Digest, p. 121). If member pastors challenged where these funds were going, they were "punished, some actually forced out of the church" (Reader S' Digest, p.125).

http://www.angelfire.com/music2/fullcircle/mas5.html

luciferhorus
19-05-2011, 01:35 AM
Okay, I understand that is your position, but I also understand that yours is just one of many "positions" or conspiracy related theories.

Ultimately my position tends to be Neomarxist; what conspiracy theorists refer to as the NWO is merely the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism," however many conspiracy theorists are actually ideological capitalists themselves. In capitalism, it is generally more effective to operate as part of a gang of organised capitalists; many religious cults operate as gangs of organised capitalists, and many Capitalist gangs have religious type inititations and Freemasonry is one of many such gangs of Capitalists.


Here is another theory, about the origins of Liberation Theology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

Some conspiracy theorists claim Freemasons started Marxist Liberation Theology, and plotted Pope assassinations.


I think that part of the problem with the rise of the conspiracy theory movement since the early 1990's and the birth of the WWW is that a great many bizarre conspiracy theories which there is very little evidence for; unfortunately professional conspiracy theorism is very much like sensationalistic tabloid journalism; I remember being in America in the US reading some of the ultra-sensationalistic "National Enquirer" headlines such as "Aliens ate my baby" and so forth, and being amazed that Americans would believe such nonsense, but with the birth of the internet this kind of sensational professional and amateur journalism has come to have mass appeal.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_g-k/I035_castro.chavez.granma.jpg

The liberation theology movement began primarily in impoverished Latin America and was a progressive phenomenon whose intellectual mentors such as Gustavo Gutierrez and the Boff brothers were Catholic priests. Probably the best known product of this kind of "Social Gospel" is the Venezuelan socialist president Hugo Chavez who is a Christian who believes that Christ was a revolutionary.

Despite being somewhat progressive, Liberation Theology is based on a selective cherry picking of the New Testament. The fictional Jesus of the Gospels was certainly "not" a revolutionary in any progressive way; in fact he promoted a strict adherence to the letter of the Judaic Law and is depicted as a religious fanatic, a fake healer and fake miracle worker who preyed on the poor and sick, and who encouraged others to do the same, just as many Christian charlatans continue to do today.

Ultimately the political philosophy of the Bible is that of a religious dictatorship in a slave society with propertied classes; it is certainly not a socialist agenda; on the contrary.

Since one of the industries which seems to be a favourite among Masons is loan sharking (banking) and they tend to be evangelical Capitalists which operate as a Capitalist gang, I very much doubt that the eradication of banking and the eradication of Capitalism would be an agenda which most Masons would support.

The second source you give makes the following statement:

"Weishaupt's next step was twofold: (1) through revolution win freedom for the subjects of what he regarded as despotic kings and the Church; and (2) after the revolution, inaugurate an ostensibly atheistic government under the guise of democracy"

Obviously I can understand why Biblical fanatics would consider dictatorship (monarchy) and the power of the clergy to be a good thing, and "democracy" as unbiblical; however for those who are not succeptible to religious hypnosis and indoctrination, the idea of more democratic forms of government and governments which have absolutely nothing to do with religion or religious laws are generally a rather popular views in the modern world. For those would would prefer to live under barbaric religious laws in a theocratic dictatorship, they could always emigrate to Saudi Arabia.

Lux

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. Collossians 3.22

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 02:09 AM
I remember being in America in the US reading some of the ultra-sensationalistic "National Enquirer" headlines such as "Aliens ate my baby" and so forth, and being amazed that Americans would believe such nonsense, but with the birth of the internet this kind of sensational professional and amateur journalism has come to have mass appeal.





So because you disagree with a theory that posits a faction of Masons infiltrated the Jesuits, and were involved in the formation of Liberation Theology, Pope assassinations, etc., the theory is akin to "Alien ate my baby" ?

Very sly form of Reductio ad ridiculum presented with thinly veiled arrogance attached to the repetition of your previously stated convictions, in order to lend an authoritative air to the assurances of your correctness.


Despite being somewhat progressive, Liberation Theology is based on a selective cherry picking of the New Testament. The fictional Jesus of the Gospels was certainly "not" a revolutionary in any progressive way; in fact he promoted a strict adherence to the letter of the Judaic Law and is depicted as a religious fanatic, a fake healer and fake miracle worker who preyed on the poor and sick, and who encouraged others to do the same, just as many Christian charlatans continue to do today.


LOL, reminds me of debates between various Constitutional scholars. There are the Originalists, the Modernists, the Literalists, etc, and most interpret said document subjectively in greater or lesser degrees based on their biases and ideological agendas, all the while denying that they are doing so.

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 02:26 AM
I don't even believe there was Jesus, personally, but I could be wrong, I wasn't alive at the time. I tend to think he is a fictional character based loosely on Julius Caeser, and perhaps some other characters. I think Josephus was involved in the original story weaving, in league with Vespasian. The myth has undergone many transformations over the years with translations and various versions/interpretations.

Josephus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


But the most drastic alterations occurred during to the time of Vespasian and his Jewish quasi-historian named Josephus was primarily responsible. This Emperor (Vespasian) had a unique concern: he needed to legitimate his claim to the throne because he had no claim of blood descent from the Iulian family. One solution was to take advantage of prophecies in the east that foretold that arrival of a new ruler of the world who would come from Palestine. With the creative assistance of Josephus, Vespasian sought to prove that he was this prophesied ruler. And with this as the goal, the cult of Divus Iulius and its traditions would undergo massive emergency plastic surgery. The historical accounts of Julius Caesar were re-interpreted to reflect an eastern origin.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1059531169&postcount=185

luciferhorus
19-05-2011, 03:24 AM
So because you disagree with a theory that posits a faction of Masons infiltrated the Jesuits, and were involved in the formation of Liberation Theology, Pope assassinations, etc., the theory is akin to "Alien ate my baby" ?

Very sly form of Reductio ad ridiculum presented with thinly veiled arrogance attached to the repetition of your previously stated convictions, in order to lend an authoritative air to the assurances of your correctness.

Having grown up around Freemasons and having read a great many Masonic conspiracy theory titles written by both Masons and anti-Masons, I have not found any evidence that the 21st century Masons are Communists, but rather that they tend to be evangelical anti-Communists and ideological Capitalists; I find that there is a kind of modern Neo-McCarthyist perspective which has been promoted by Henry Makow type Christians which tends to wish to portray their enemies as Communists, irrespective of whether there is any evidence of that or not.

Certainly in the 18th, 19th and even 20th centuries there have been numerous political radicals who have also been Freemasons, especially among the French and Russian Masons, which had a radcial element among them, but I find no evidence of this in the 21st century where the Freemasons appear to be one of
numerous gangs of organised ganster Capitalists.

More on this subject in my essay "In Defense of Adam Weishaupt & the Illuminati. V2 " on: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=145168


I do consider the predominately Latin American "Liberation Theology (i.e., Marxist Christianity" movement to be progressive, however it was certainly considered heretical by the current Pope. Catholicism has been predominately an anti-Communist phenomenon throughout the 21st century, and many leading dictators of the Latin American Far Right have been Roman Catholics; they don't seem to have a problem with murderers and torturers of the political right, but they do seem to have a problem with Marxists. The Biblical faith has nothing to do with Communism and Socialism anway, since it promotes theocratic dictatorship, slavery and religious barbarism and "holy war" against competing religions.


I don't even believe there was Jesus, personally, but I could be wrong, I wasn't alive at the time. I tend to think he is a fictional character based loosely on Julius Caeser, and perhaps some other characters. I think Josephus was involved in the original story weaving, in league with Vespasian. The myth has undergone many transformations over the years with translations and various versions/interpretations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

See: "Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? on: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=154079

Essentially the New Testament was compiled at the time of Constantine and was a compliation of writings which combined elements of "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record of the doctrines orated by them" (Life of Constantine).

Israel 2000 years ago was probably very similar to the society portrayed in Mony Python's "Life of Brian," and probably would have more in common with the kind of primitive religious fanaticism of modern Afghanistan or India; the latter of which still has numerous fake healers and fake miracle workers roaming around preying on the mostly superstitious and barely educated population.

There seems to have been numerous Messianic religious fanatics in Israel 2000 years ago and it is quite likely that the New Testament describes this kind of archetype of a Messianic religious fanatic and charlatan miracle worker, to which numerous myths and miracle stories have been added.

It seems to me that although New Testament was meant to be a compilation of various texts of numerous religious fanatics, that Constantine himself merely wanted a unified religion for the purposes of social control; a religion which he himself seems to have not been a part of.

Lux

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 04:18 AM
I find that there is a kind of modern Neo-McCarthyist perspective which has been promoted by Henry Makow type Christians which tends to wish to portray their enemies as Communists, irrespective of whether there is any evidence of that or not.




I won't disagree with that, in the US anyway, socialism is a dirty word, and even garden variety versions of socialism (that are commonplace in the rest of the developed/industrialized nations) are given the plague treatment by reactionaries. If a left leaning or liberal US politician even mentions taxing the rich, the media practically starts portraying him or her as somebody who wants to usher in a totalitarian communist dictatorship and strip everybody of their freedumbs.

Aside from that point, I just haven't seen any real evidence that Freemasons are all marching in lockstep with any particular religious theology or ideology - Capitalist or otherwise - and I think the wide variance of conspiracy theories regarding them says more than any particular theory in-and-of itself. Although for the most part they display solidarity in the face of all of their conspiracy theorizing adversaries on DIF, I have still seen hints of contention between various Masons who belong to different lodges and/or factions, who post here. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Grand Secretary? heh.











See: "Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? on: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=154079

Essentially the New Testament was compiled at the time of Constantine and was a compliation of writings which combined elements of "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record of the doctrines orated by them" (Life of Constantine).

It seems quite possible there was some consolidation and more 'revisions' built-in during the time of Constantine, but I also tend to think any of that was piled-on to the mythologized 'history' that seems to trace its beginnings with Josephus and Vespasian.

luciferhorus
19-05-2011, 06:32 AM
I won't disagree with that, in the US anyway, socialism is a dirty word, and even garden variety versions of socialism (that are commonplace in the rest of the developed/industrialized nations) are given the plague treatment by reactionaries. If a left leaning or liberal US politician even mentions taxing the rich, the media practically starts portraying him or her as somebody who wants to usher in a totalitarian communist dictatorship and strip everybody of their freedumbs.

A ideological Capitalist's definition of "freedom" is generally similar to a slavemasters' definition of freedom; the slavemaster wants to be free to live off the labour of othere and is not interested in the freedom of his labour slaves.

In Cuba the idea of free education, free healthcare and public services which are provided as a service and not for profit, such as transportation, housing and ultilities such as electricity, water, gas is taken for granted as their "basic needs;" this model has been implimented also in Europe but to only certain degree in certain states and there are signs that this system is becoming regressed back to a more primitive capitalist model. It is one thing for a wealthy American to talk of their "freedom," but it is quite another for the poor, the unemployed, the sick, the homeless etc. If a person is homeless, poor, hungry and unemployed, they are not really truly "free." Further the US support for numerous military dictators, especially in Latin America where they engineered numerous military coups of the far right seems to indicate that the "freedom" mantra is really just propaganda; what they really want is imperial colonies which serve their own interests.

America also has around 5% of world population but is estimated to consume around a third of global resources. This "freedom" for Americans to become obese (which they mostly are) comes at a price, and it is that of a world where the poorest nations export food and labour products to the world's richest nations in return for capital.


Aside from that point, I just haven't seen any real evidence that Freemasons are all marching in lockstep with any particular religious theology or ideology - Capitalist or otherwise - and I think the wide variance of conspiracy theories regarding them says more than any particular theory in-and-of itself. Although for the most part they display solidarity in the face of all of their conspiracy theorizing adversaries on DIF, I have still seen hints of contention between various Masons who belong to different lodges and/or factions, who post here. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Grand Secretary? heh.

I think that the Grand Secretary's Masonic Lodge was just a "New Religious Movement" formed by a few disgruntled Masons a few years ago; not all such cults go on to be successful and many Masonic cult franchises have been started that way as breakaway groups. Freemasonry is very sectarian with numerous Masonic lodge franchises which are considered "irregular," or "fake Masonry" by the main body of British Masons. In France for example, the largest Masonic organisation, the Grand Orient is one such breakaway group, and they have a slighty more radical reputation; however it is British Masonry which I refer to as operating very much like a Capitalist gang and being entwined with the police, judiciary, the military and especially the financial services sector; there are allegedly several hundred lodges in the City of London alone which is essentially the banking districts, so you can see what their common agenda is, it is essentially the accumulation of Capital.


Lux

astrochicken
19-05-2011, 07:56 AM
The flag of the former East Germany
http://jspivey.wikispaces.com/file/view/east_germany_flag.png/34328199/east_germany_flag.png

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 08:04 AM
America also has around 5% of world population but is estimated to consume around a third of global resources. This "freedom" for Americans to become obese (which they mostly are) comes at a price, and it is that of a world where the poorest nations export food and labour products to the world's richest nations in return for capital.






You are generalizing. Americans aren't consuming a vaguely defined 1/3 of global resources. Maybe the ruling elite class and the UMC (upper middle class) have a disproportionate access to resources/wealth. But hey at least you went on to qualify this by saying "it is that of a world where the poorest nations export food and labour products to the world's richest nations in return for capital."

But in general, "Americans" have one of the higher rates of homelessness and poverty and lower life expectancy in the developed world of 'richest nations'.


According to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, there were 643,067 sheltered and unsheltered homeless persons nationwide on a single night in January 2009. Additionally, about 1.56 million people used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program during the 12-month period between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009. This number suggests that roughly 1 in every 200 persons in the US used the shelter system at some point in that period


More information/statistics here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness


As far as obesity, that isn't from imports, its largely from locally produced processed foods, starchy crap, processed foods loaded with high fructose corn syrup. And eating disgusting, cancerous, fast food burgers.

And as of 2010 the US exports more beef than they import.


For the first year since 1947, the US exported more beef in 2010 than we imported. In total, 2010 beef exports equaled 8.74 per cent of US beef production and imports equaled 8.73 per cent of our production.

http://www.thecattlesite.com/news/33647/beef-exports-exceed-beef-imports
Not that it is anything to be proud of, I'm a vegetarian.

And in general, regarding agricultural exports, the US actually has a trade surplus in foods, feeds, and beverages, and has for decades. Which means more is exported than imported.

Foods, feeds, and beverages represented $108.4 billion of U.S. exports in 2008, and was the second largest export growth category (end-use) for the U.S., with exports rising $24.2 billion (or 28.7 percent) over 2007. The U.S. trade surplus in foods, feeds, and beverages rose $16.8 billion to reach $19.4 billion in 2008, up from a surplus of $2.6 billion in 2007.

http://bit.ly/jMAYkm



So the USA is not getting 'obese' at the rest of the world's 'expense' like vampires; its largely homegrown, and nothing to be envious of unless one is that well known popular image of an emaciated Ethiopian poster child for charities, the one with a vulture lurking nearby. America has obesity, diabetes, and a host of other dietary related disease problems because of poor education, misinformation and disinformation about nutrition, ignorance and sophisticated, deceptive marketing.


There is an epidemic of diabetes, and they lie and claim its not curable, but it is, in the sense of being reversible (insulin medicines not needed)

See this video if you have the time:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/sailorvee/videos/3/

Imported foods of a decent quality are almost a luxury item anymore, like say, getting blueberries that are out of season here, imported from some place like Peru; a half pint of them would cost the average minimum wage worker an hours wages.

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 08:36 AM
The flag of the former East Germany
http://jspivey.wikispaces.com/file/view/east_germany_flag.png/34328199/east_germany_flag.png

One of the christian capitalist freemasonry lodges probably designed that flag for disinformation purposes. They took the G out and put in the hammer to fool people, but, KGB = Kapitalistic God Business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi#Relationship_with_the_KGB

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 09:00 AM
EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL!!

http://youtu.be/gKFr-vM8n_U?t=10m



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.rawilson.com/graphics/Csicon-Logo.gif

cnumb
19-05-2011, 09:17 AM
One of the christian capitalist freemasonry lodges probably designed that flag for disinformation purposes. They took the G out and put in the hammer to fool people, but, KGB = Kapitalistic God Business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi#Relationship_with_the_KGB

One of the many freemason conspriacy theorists probably designed that flag for disinformation purposes. They took the G out and put in the hammer to fool people, but, KGB =Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti.

lizzyking
19-05-2011, 09:56 AM
One of the many freemason conspriacy theorists probably designed that flag for disinformation purposes. They took the G out and put in the hammer to fool people, but, KGB =Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti.

That's possible too. Conspiring conspiracy theorists might be an integral part of the Grand dislodged conspiracy of everything is under Kaos.


http://i53.tinypic.com/vcx5sh.png


http://www.tvacres.com/images/smart_phone2.jpg



HAARP!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Smart,_Again!#Synopsis

luciferhorus
20-05-2011, 06:16 AM
You are generalizing. Americans aren't consuming a vaguely defined 1/3 of global resources. Maybe the ruling elite class and the UMC (upper middle class) have a disproportionate access to resources/wealth. But hey at least you went on to qualify this by saying "it is that of a world where the poorest nations export food and labour products to the world's richest nations in return for capital."

But in general, "Americans" have one of the higher rates of homelessness and poverty and lower life expectancy in the developed world of 'richest nations'.


As far as obesity, that isn't from imports, its largely from locally produced processed foods, starchy crap, processed foods loaded with high fructose corn syrup. And eating disgusting, cancerous, fast food burgers.

And as of 2010 the US exports more beef than they import.

Not that it is anything to be proud of, I'm a vegetarian.

And in general, regarding agricultural exports, the US actually has a trade surplus in foods, feeds, and beverages, and has for decades. Which means more is exported than imported.



So the USA is not getting 'obese' at the rest of the world's 'expense' like vampires; its largely homegrown, and nothing to be envious of unless one is that well known popular image of an emaciated Ethiopian poster child for charities, the one with a vulture lurking nearby. America has obesity, diabetes, and a host of other dietary related disease problems because of poor education, misinformation and disinformation about nutrition, ignorance and sophisticated, deceptive marketing.


There is an epidemic of diabetes, and they lie and claim its not curable, but it is, in the sense of being reversible (insulin medicines not needed)

See this video if you have the time:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/sailorvee/videos/3/

Imported foods of a decent quality are almost a luxury item anymore, like say, getting blueberries that are out of season here, imported from some place like Peru; a half pint of them would cost the average minimum wage worker an hours wages.

http://static.globalissues.org/i/poverty/wdi-2008/consumption-inequality-2005-pie.png

I may have misdescribed somewhat the situation with US agriculture; never the less it is quite clear that we live in a world where the few developed nations are the consumers of much of the world's resources, and where there is massive inequality and where capitalism simply does not work for much of the world's population; it simply reduces them to impoverishment, slavery and hunger.
I think that even a brief look at the statistics of global economic equality make that clear.

For example:



http://www.humanitycampaign.org/global-poverty-facts/

1.As of 2008, 79.8% of humanity lives on less than $10 per day. (5.15 billon people) (1)
2.As of 2008, 48.6% of humanity lives on less than $2.50 per day. (3.14 billion people) (1)
3.As of 2008, 40.2% of humanity lives on less than $2 per day. (2.60 billion people) (1)
4.As of 2008, 21.7% of humanity lives on less than $1.25 per day (1.40 billion people) (1)
5.As of 2008, 13.6% of humanity lives on less than $1 per day. (880 million people) (1)
6.As of 2008, the world’s richest 20% consume 76.6% of private consumption (1)
7.As of 2008, the world’s richest 10% consume 59.9% of private consumption (1)
8.As of 2009, 25,000 children under 5 years old die each day due to poverty (2)
9.As of 2006, access to piped water into the household averages about 85% for the wealthiest 20% of the population, compared with 25% for the poorest 20%. (3)
10.As of 2007, every year there are 350–500 million cases of malaria, with 1 million fatalities: Africa accounts for 90 percent of malarial deaths and African children account for over 80 percent of malaria victims worldwide. (4)
11.As of 2007, 1.6 billion people — a quarter of humanity — live without electricity (5)
12.As of 2007, the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the 41 Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (567 million people) is less than the wealth of the world’s 7 richest people combined. (6, 7, 8 )
13.As of 2009, the poverty line in the USA for a single individual is drawn at $10,830 per annum or $29.67 per day. (9)
14.As of 2006, 10.6 million children die every year from causes that are easily preventable – equal to 29,000 children every day (10)
15.As of 2006, half of these deaths 29,000 daily deaths of children occur in just six countries – China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, India, Nigeria and Pakistan (10)
16.As of 2006, 2 million children die every year from pneumonia and other acute respiratory infections, making it the leading cause of death of children under five years of age (11)
17.As of 2006, 1.6 million children die every year from Diarrhoeal disease, primarily from the resulting severe dehydration that can quickly result in the failure of vital organs in young children (11)
18.As of 2006, 1.1 million children die every year in Africa from malaria, making it the largest cause of death for children under five in Africa. (11)
19.As of 2006, 657,000 children under the age of 15 are infected with HIV every day, most through transmission of the virus from mother to baby during pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding (11)
20.As of 2006, 500,000 children die every year from measles. (11)
21.As of 2008, on the whole, people are healthier, wealthier, and live longer today than 30 years ago. If children were still dying at 1978 rates, there would have been 16.2 million dealths of children globally in 2006. In fact there were only 9.5 million such deaths. This difference of 6.7 million deaths is equivalent to 18,329 children’s lives being saved every day. (12)
22.As of 2007, each year, more than 500,000 women die from treatable or preventable complications of pregnancy and childbirth. (13)
23.As of 2007, in sub-Saharan Africa, a woman’s risk of dying from complications from childbirth over the course of her lifetime is 1 in 16, compared to 1 in 3,800 in the developed world. (13)
24.As of 2005, an estimated 15.2 million children had lost one or both parents to AIDS (14)
25.In 2008, net disbursements of official development assistance (ODA) reached $119.8 billion. That is equivalent to 0.3 per cent of developed countries’ combined national income. (15)

Sources:

1.World Development Indicators 2008, World Bank, August 2008
2.UNICEF State of the World’s Children, 2009
3.2006 United Nations Human Development Report, pp.6, 7, 35
4.2007 Human Development Report (HDR), United Nations Development Program, November 27, 2007, p.25.
5.UN Millennium Development Goals Report 2007, p.44
6.World Bank Key Development Data & Statistics, World Bank
7.Luisa Kroll and Allison Fass, The World’s Richest People, Forbes
8.World Bank’s list of Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (41 countries)
9.www.hhs.gov“. The 2009 HHS Poverty Guidelines. http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml.
10.UNICEF Canada 50 Year Progress Report 2006, Overview Sheet
11.UNICEF Canada 50 Year Progress Report 2006
12.World Health Organization, World Health Report 2008, p. 14
13.UN Millennium Development Goals Report 2007, p.16
14.UN Millennium Development Goals Report 2007, p.20
15.UN Millennium Development Goals Report 2009, p. 48





Of course to be realistic about this, we seem to be emerging from aeons of slave societies and primitive tyrannies, and of course it is unrealistic to suddenly expect there to be a perfect world; rather the Marxist perspective is generally that societies should be expected to transform from primitive slave societies to Capitalism, to Socialism to Communism, however there are many grey areas in between, since even many slave societies had some form of primitive Capitalism, and even American began as a mixture of a slave society with a Capitalist economy for those who were not enslaved.

Generally those in the modern world who oppose slavery might argue that the slaves should be freed and instead transformed into Capitalist workers who receive wages; however in much of the Third World, labour slaves and sex slaves do not always have a much better standard of living than a slave anyway; thus such societies really need to make a giant leap to certain forms of socialism where there is both a partially Capitalist economy, but there is also a Socialist state which exists to provide basic needs for it's populations.

Western Europe is essentially a mixture of a partially socialist states which have certain freedoms for Capitalists; even the political right in nations such as France and England can only go so far with certain policies; for example if they went too far in attempting to dismantle socialist policies, such as universal healthcare, state pensions, government housing and so forth, I think they know that they simply would not be elected.

Despite many Socialist reforms in Europe, we still live in the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" and none of our governments have control over their own money supply; however even among those who are anti-Communists, such as David Icke, Alex Jones, Ron Paul etc., there are those who are calling for the nationalisation of the money supply, and that of course is a central tenet of Marx and Engels' "Communist Manifesto."

Ultimately it is not in the interests of the vast majority of humankind to live in an environment of ganster Capitalism and monopoly Capitalism, where for a tiny minority of bankers and economic elites to be able to accumulate vast amounts of wealth and where the tradining almost everything kind of basic need and public service is "privatised," which seems to be the agenda of the IMF, the World Banks and other leading organisations of gangster Capitalists.

Lux

luciferhorus
02-04-2012, 08:17 PM
One of the many freemason conspriacy theorists probably designed that flag for disinformation purposes. They took the G out and put in the hammer to fool people, but, KGB =Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti.

The Freemasons are not Communists; they are Christians and anti-Communists.

pepsi78
30-12-2013, 08:30 PM
Thanks for such a great post, sheds light on what free masonry is once again, some of the things you posted are interesting.

jack tripper
30-12-2013, 09:13 PM
I think they have to be psychopathic perverts to even to get up there. But you also have, you see, networks and societies. Everyone who has to join it has to become a Mason.

In Britain we had it all come out with the Savile case and everything. You know, the stuff these perverted Lords (many of them masons) are into. They were even taking boys off the street and all this stuff. Some right weirdos at the top in these positions of power.

ksigmason
31-12-2013, 01:52 AM
In Britain we had it all come out with the Savile case and everything.
Except Saville was not a Mason and nothing from that scandal proved that Masons were involved with his pedophilia. The only psychopaths I see are the anti-Masons.

wwiikkdd
31-12-2013, 02:46 AM
http://youtu.be/iSHhEtgccZ8 Shining some light on the subject.

edelweiss pirate
31-12-2013, 12:09 PM
Except Saville was not a Mason and nothing from that scandal proved that Masons were involved with his pedophilia. The only psychopaths I see are the anti-Masons.

You have no idea about whether he was a Mason or not.

If you are trying to pretend that every low level Mason knows who all the high level Masons in the world are, then you're being disingenuous.

eastbeast
31-12-2013, 12:53 PM
You have no idea about whether he was a Mason or not.


Consider this then.

He was a Catholic and by all accounts a fairly keen practicing one.
I think he met the Pope on at least one occasion.
Given those two alone makes it unlikely he was a Freemason.

Also.
While he was alive and before all the unsavory happenings came out he was not 'outed', proclaimed nor did he announce he was a Freemason.

Why?
Perhaps he wanted privacy, but even then, someone would have 'outed' him.

Charity.
It is undeniable that he did a lot for charity, however, were any of the charities he did work for Masonic?
He publicised those charities and his work a lot, Were any of those charities Masonic, and did he promote them at all?


So, I suggest given that he was not at all publicity shy surely he would have shouted from the rooftops had he been a Freemason.





If you are trying to pretend that every low level Masons knows who all the high level Masons in the world are, then you're being disingenuous.



I think that should be reworded as follows;
If you are trying to pretend that every Mason knows who all the famous Masons in the world are, then you're being disingenuous.


This whole 'High level' 'low level' thing is ridiculous and just isn't the way it works.


Finally, it has been proven that he was not a Freemason countless times, apart from wanting to use him to sling mud, why keep his memory alive?
He deserves nothing more than for us all to forget him.

edelweiss pirate
31-12-2013, 05:06 PM
Really Mr Beast you'll have to do better than that.

Why on Earth would Savile have declared that he was a freemason? sadly there is no law which would have required him to have done so.

There should be.

ksigmason
31-12-2013, 05:07 PM
You have no idea about whether he was a Mason or not.

If you are trying to pretend that every low level Mason knows who all the high level Masons in the world are, then you're being disingenuous.
He wasn't a Mason.

ksigmason
31-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Really Mr Beast you'll have to do better than that.

Why on Earth would Savile have declared that he was a freemason? sadly there is no law which would have required him to have done so.

There should be.
England did try that for some time and it was struck down as it was discriminatory and went against basic human rights.

eastbeast
31-12-2013, 05:49 PM
Really Mr Beast you'll have to do better than that.



If you misunderstood plain English that would be your problem not mine.




Why on Earth would Savile have declared that he was a freemason?


Because many famous people do, just as many don't.
Why would he not?

The reason he did not and has not been acknowledged and never was is because he was not a Freemason.




sadly there is no law which would have required him to have done so.



So we now see where your politics lie, who would you like to fund that little project?
I'm sure the taxpayer, already overloaded, would love your plan.





There should be.


Well if you want it you better make a start on getting some kind of political party together and pass some laws.
Perhaps once you have outlawed Freemasonry you can start on the next scapegoats.
Opposing Political Parties?
Then once you think you have found some wrong doings you can have them executed or just make them disappear.
That seems to have been popular amongst those kind of Political Parties in the past so why change a winning formula.

multisync
01-01-2014, 09:12 AM
You have no idea about whether he was a Mason or not.

If you are trying to pretend that every low level Mason knows who all the high level Masons in the world are, then you're being disingenuous.

but you're always trying to pretend you know about a whole lot of stuff you obviously don't...

But in this specific case give one creditable piece of evidence he was a Freemason.

wwiikkdd
01-01-2014, 11:13 PM
Much online pertaining to ATS. Especially Sandy Hook, that is one hot topic.