My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners

[phantom]

I was going to stick this post elsewhere but I think it is appropriate here. If a mod thinks it should be moved to another board, be my guest and move it

My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners

By Guiseppe Furioso

The Holocaust consists of three basic elements:

1. Approximately 6 million Jews were deliberately killed.

2. These killings were part of a state-sponsored program on the part of the Third Reich whose ultimate goal was the total eradication of the Jewish people.

3. The bulk of these murders took place in special camps where the principal mechanism of execution was the homocidal gas chamber that utilized Zyclon B, a commercial pesticide whose active ingredient was hydrogen cyanide.

That the Third Reich possessed the technological and administrative means to carry out such a vast amount of killing there is little doubt. The Soviet Union with significantly inferior assets in these areas was able to kill far larger numbers of human beings. Furthermore, the armies of the Third Reich succeeded in killing at least ten million of its heavily armed military opponents in the course of World War II. Hence, the killing of 6 million unarmed civilians should not have presented any unique problems to such an industrially advanced and bureaucratically efficient state as Nazi Germany. On the contrary, it would have been far easier.

My doubts about the Holocaust are not centered around whether it could have happened, but whether it did happen. In fact, many of the doubts that I have are the direct consequence of the fact that I have no doubt that it actually could have happened; but certainly not in the ways that have been described thus far in the “official” literature.

It is part of the Western tradition that in legal, scientific, and intellectual matters that those asserting something have the burden of proof, and that those who disagree are not required to provide evidence. This tradition however has been turned on its head regarding the Holocaust since the “historical truth” of the Holocaust has been posited in advance. Furthermore, even to express doubts can result in criminal penalties in at least 11 so-called democratic countries and the ruining of lives and careers in numerous others.

Listed below are some of the “problems” I have with the Holocaust. Should these be cleared up, it would go a long way toward my accepting it. They are in no particular order.

1. Why did Elie Wiesel and countless other Jews survive the Holocaust if it was the intention of the Third Reich to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on? Elie was a prisoner for several years; other Jews survived even longer. Most of these “survivors” were ordinary people who did not have any unique expertise that the Germans could have exploited for their war effort. There was no logical reason for them to be kept alive. The very existence of more than a million survivors even today, some sixty years later, contradicts one of the basic components of the Holocaust, i.e., that the Germans had a policy to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on.

2. Why is there no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill’s six-volume History of the Second World War or the wartime memoirs of either De Gaulle or Eisenhower or any other lesser luminaries who wrote about the Second World War? Keep in mind all these were written years after the war ended and thus after the Holocaust had been allegedly proven by the Nuremberg Trials. With regard to the Holocaust, the silence of these “conoscenti” is deafening!

3. What was an inmate infirmary (and a brothel) doing in Auschwitz if in fact it was a death camp?

4. Why would the Germans round up Jews from their far-flung empire, thereby tying up large numbers of personnel and rolling stock, while fighting a war on two fronts, to deliver people to “death camps” hundreds of miles away who were then executed upon arrival? Wouldn’t a bullet on the spot have appealed to the legendary German sense of efficiency?

5. Why after sixty years have historians not been able to come up with a single German document that points to a Holocaust? Should we believe the likes of Raul Hilberg that in the place of written orders there was an “incredible meeting of the minds” by the literally tens of thousands of people who would have had to coordinate their actions in order to carry out an undertaking of this magnitude?

6. How come it is still insisted upon that six million Jews were killed when the official Jewish death toll at Auschwitz, the flagship of the Holocaust gulag, from an immediate post-war figure of 3 million to a figure of somewhat less than one million? Why do many respond to this observation by saying “what’s the difference if it was six million or one million.” The answer is that the difference is five million. Another difference is that saying so can get you three years in an Austrian jail. Just ask David Irving!

7 . All of Germany’s wartime codes were compromised including the ones used to send daily reports from Auschwitz to Berlin. The transcripts of these messages make no mention of mass executions or even remotely suggest a genocidal program in progress. Furthermore it has been insisted that the Germans used a kind of euphemistic code when discussing their extermination program of the Jews, e.g., final solution, special treatment, resettlement, etc. Why was it necessary for them to use such coded euphemisms when talking to each other unless they thought their codes had been cracked by the Allies?

8. The watertable at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which makes claims of huge burning pits for tens of thousands of bodies untenable.

9. Initially, claims were made that mass executions in homicidal gas chambers had taken place in camps located within the boundaries of the old Reich, e.g., Dachau, Bergun-Belsen. “Evidence” to that effect was every bit as compelling as what was offered for other camps, located in occupied Poland, yet without explanation in the early sixties we were told that this was not the case and that all the “death camps” were located in the east, i.e., Poland outside (some would say conveniently) of the probing eyes of Western scholars.

10. No one has been able to reconcile the eyewitness accounts that personnel entered the gas chambers after twenty minutes without any protective gear and the fact that Zyclon B was a “time-release” fumigant that would have had a lethal capability for at least another twenty-four hours. And that even after twenty-four hours the corpses would have remained sufficiently contaminated by the hydrogen cyanide gas that they would have had the capacity to kill anyone who touched them who was not wearing protective gear.

11. Why do we no longer hear the claims that the Germans manufactured soap, lamp shades and riding britches from the bodies of dead Jews? Could it be that in light of modern forensics and DNA knowledge that these claims are totally untenable?

12. Why do we no longer hear claims that huge numbers of Jews were exterminated in massive steam chambers or electrocuted on special grids? “Evidence” of this was presented at Nuremberg. Evidence that sent men to the gallows.

13. Elie Wiesel has been described as the “Apostle of Remembrance” yet in his memoir, “Night,” which deals with his stay at Auschwitz, he makes no mention of the now infamous homicidal gas chambers. Isn’t this a bit like one of the gospels making no mention of the cross?

14. Virtually every survivor who was examined at Auschwitz says he or she was examined by Dr. Joseph Mengele.

15. According to survivor testimony, hundreds of thousands of Jews were executed at Treblinka and then buried in mass graves in the surrounding area. Why is it that extensive sonar probing of these burial grounds reveals that this final resting place for Holocaust victims has remained undisturbed since at least the last ice age?

16. “Proof” of the Holocaust rests largely on survivor testimony; there is little if any hard evidence. The best of this has been described by Jean Claude Pressac as merely “criminal traces.” Even Judge Grey who presided at the Irving-Lipstadt trial commented that he was surprised the evidence pointing to the Holocaust was “extremely thin.” To paraphrase Arthur Butz, “a crime of this magnitude would have left a mountain of evidence. Where is it? There was more hard evidence found against OJ Simpson at his trial and he was found innocent!”

17. Why has Holocaust Revisionism been criminalized in at least eleven countries? What other historic truth needs the threat of prison or the destruction of one’s career to maintain itself? Should someone be sent to prison for expressing skepticism about the official Chinese claim that they suffered thirty-five million dead in World War II?

18. Why do the court historians insist that “denying the Holocaust” is like denying slavery or saying the earth is flat, when it is nothing of the sort? The leading Revisionists are first-rate scholars who hold advanced degrees from the world’s leading universities. Is there anyone comparable among those who would say the earth is flat or that slavery never existed?

19. Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concern about remembering the Holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven’t Civil War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959?

20. Survivors of the Holocaust testified that smoke billowed from the crematoria as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims. Some eyewitnesses even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoria do not emit smoke of any color?

21. According to the offical version of the Holocaust hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were rounded up in mid-1944 and sent to Auschwitz, where most were gassed immediately upon arrival and their bodies disposed of by burning in huge open air pits using railroad ties and gasoline. Why is there no evidence of these huge funerary pyres in the high resolution surveillance photos taken by Allied aircraft who were overflying the camp on a daily basis? Furthermore, why have no remains been found, since open pit burning, even when gasoline is used, generates insuffienct heat to totally consume a body?

22. All of the liberated camps were littered with corpses; is there a single autopsy report or any other forensic evidence that shows that even a single death was as a consequence of poison gas?

23. The death toll for the Holocaust lies exclusively on population statistics provided by Jewish sources; has any independent demographic study been produced that shows that 6 million Jews were “missing” at the end of the war?

24. Why do the wartime inspection reports of the camps made by the International Red Cross contain no references to mass executions? It strains credulity that such monumental crimes could be hidden. The only explanations are that these crimes were not occurring or that the Red Cross was complicit in a cover-up.

25. Why has there been no effort to respond to the Leuchter report?

26. “The Holocaust was technically possible because it happened.” Why is this intellectually bankrupt argument, which turns scholarship on its head, considered by the promoters of the Holocaust as historical truth, considered a sufficient response to the mounting Revisionist evidence to the contrary?

27. What other historical truths rely to the extent that the Holocaust does rely on eyewitness testimony, and why have none of these eyewitnesses every been cross examined?

28. According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained ignorant of their fate until the very end, so skillful were their Nazi murders in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact that the Jews have historically been as a group the most literate and highly informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest levels of government?

guiseppefurioso@aol.com

Link (http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/2006/12/12/my-holocaust-problems-a-primer-for-beginners/)

[mr jones]

the earth is flat :D

[warrior]

the earth is flat :D

Why are you playing the moron? You haven't answered any of his questions and simply made a moronic reply, why haven't the mods removed it.

[paganus]

why is it ILLEGAL in several countries to display artwork made by camp inmates?hmm?

[phantom]

Thanks warrior

I guess it is the norm when confronted with such "hard" questions. It is easier to take the piss or throw insults at the one asking the serious questions. It is something I have had to get used to over the eyars. :)

[paganus]

why did austweitz have a camp orchestra? why does the number killed rise each year? why are there so many survivors telling their tales? wouldnt a camp of extermination be a crock? why not kill them in their homes? slave-labour? to build what? not munitions cause thats what created the promised jobs for the citizens(female at wars outbreak) not roads or bridges surely cos were assured noone left the camps.so,slaves to make what?the japanese moved slave labour to sites where it was useful.no point otherwise!

[spiraltrance]

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2. Was it really 6 million? Probably not, but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.

[paganus]

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2. Was it really 6 million? Probably not, but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.
like who? the 'chosen few?' fuck em the racist bastards!

[hirschfelder]

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2. Was it really 6 million? Probably not, but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.

Jesus wept.

Excellent first post, Mr Phantom, shame about the nobhead replies

[seanx]

hirschfelder wrote:
Excellent first post, Mr Phantom, shame about the nobhead replies


Is there nothing of any interest on the nazis website - that you've
all come over here to infect the place.

Surely on Christmas Eve, you can rise above your usual gutter hate.

[phantom]

Hi spiraltrance

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2.

No one is claiming they didn't. I just can't understand why WWII is focused more of the jewish losses than the other 10's of millions of other people who lost their lives.

Opppppppps! Silly me, yes I can, it's because of the holocaust.


Was it really 6 million? Probably not

Not probably, more like, definitely not.

but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.

The same could be said about posting info questioning 9/11. There are no doubt family members and many other people who believe the official version yet I don't see anyone here moan about that.

It is not my fault if some people get upset because I am looking for truth in an historical event that has been outlawed by several nations, resulting in people being thrown in jail and fined for asking such questions.

Just for that reason alone, it makes me curious and I want to know what it is the zionists are trying to hide. If their version was the truth why would they need a law to protect it? It's doesn't make sense to me.

I am not making any derogatory remarks about the jewish people in my quest for truth?

[phantom]

Hi hirschfelder and thanks

I am used to the negative replies and to be honest, I didn't really expect anyone to rebut the post, just as none have bother rebutting the several other holocaust posts I have here.

[phantom]

Why do you bother wasting energy on my threads seanx?

Yet again, you have nothing of substance to add, just silly snide remarks. Have a go at rebuttal instead of making the usual accusations regarding people being a Nazi or hate monger.

[hirschfelder]

hirschfelder wrote:



Is there nothing of any interest on the nazis website - that you've
all come over here to infect the place.

Surely on Christmas Eve, you can rise above your usual gutter hate.

My 'usual gutter hate'?

I think this is the first time I've ever responded to a holocaust truth thread

Still, you clearly know me better than I do myself

[seanx]

My 'usual gutter hate'?

I was referring to all of you!

Surely you know that this guy phantom spam this race stuff regurarly.

Phantom asks:

Why do you bother wasting energy on my threads seanx?Yet again, you have nothing of substance to add, just silly snide remarks. Have a go at rebuttal instead of making the usual accusations regarding people being a Nazi or hate monger.

Probably the same reason I'd make the effort to wipe shit off my
shoes if I stood in dog crap.

Can you honestly tell me that you think it is suitable on Christmas Eve,
of all times to be still flogging this stuff about innocent people,
being horribly gassed to death, whether it was 100,
100,000, 1 million or 1 billion victims.

[mr jones]

Why are you playing the moron? You haven't answered any of his questions and simply made a moronic reply, why haven't the mods removed it.
i dont have to answer any of his questions, i agree with everything it says.
so you're the moron arnt you. i read the post and found the part about the earth being flat funny. next time you should read the entire post before being a twat

[mr jones]

Thanks warrior

I guess it is the norm when confronted with such "hard" questions. It is easier to take the piss or throw insults at the one asking the serious questions. It is something I have had to get used to over the eyars. :)

you are off your bloody rocker.
i hate the fact we cant question the holocaust.
you shouldnt be getting all self-rightious because of a random comment.

warrior is a fool and so are you :D

merry christmas

[steevo]

Hi Phantom, ok I decided to participate in your threads, if that's ok with you :) And I would like to start by asking some questions :-

Phantom, would you say that Hitler "liked" CERTAIN Jews and not others because in your post it says some of the Jews were allowed to survive ?
Was there persecution of the Jews in your opinion ? If so which ones ?
Did the Jews have tattoos used for identification purposes ? If so why ?
Who did Hitler see as the enemy of Germany in YOUR opinion and I'm talking of homegrown enemies ?
Do YOU see Hitler as being a "great" man and if so why ?
Was Hitlers approach to the Jews the RIGHT approach in YOUR opinion ?
In your opinion, how many Jews died in the holocaust and how did they die ? Or was there NOT a holocaust in your opinion ?

[mr jones]

organized jewry declared war on germany with the boycott germany campain.
hitlers speech about the home grown threat wasnt just raw hatred of the jewish it was from a defensive position.
hitlers boycott of the jewish was part of the 'transfare agreement' with zionist palistine and the zionist organised world jewry.

why and how did it get so bad between the germans (including the german jews who considered themselves German) and Zionist organized world jewry??

[paganus]

literal definition of the word holocaust is sacrifice by fire,unless nazi policy was human sacrifice by fire,then by definition it didnt happen.

[kblood]

I am a bit curious about why it even matters wether there was a holocaust or not? To say, oh, the germans werent all that bad nearly 60 years ago? Jews already got their country, so wether it was due to the holocaust or not, it wont change the fact that they now live there.

Why would jews boycott Germany? Never heard that one before. I would like to see Phantom fully answer Steevo's post.

[lennart]

another explanation could be that many jews where used to build underground bunkers! In the video 'space secrets' you see there where space programs by hitler worked on in underground bunkers.

Also all over germany there are huge underground bunkers that where not finished yet! Only the ones that where not finished are known to the people...if there are...who knows!

[nickatnoon61]

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2. Was it really 6 million? Probably not, but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.

GOOD, most "certain"people need to be "upset" and snapped out of their fluoridated comas!!!!

[nickatnoon61]

To: Desertfoxi
Mate, you wrote: "They [Jews] were put there [concentration camps] to isolate them from the REAL Europeans." Had this been so, it would have been done in 1933-4. In fact, the vast majority of the Jews were lawfully interned in 1941 (and later), when Mr Hitler launched his crusade against the "Evil Empire" of the Soviet (Judo-communist?) Russia (many decades before Ronald Reagan) -- and on the very same legal grounds as the Japs were interned in US and Canada: suspected allegiance to the enemy in time of war. I just noticed Re: gas chambers in the subject line. In case there are still any doubts in anyones mind, as described by the "Holocaust religion", these "gas chambers" would have done away with fewer Jews than did the kitchen gas ovens in New York City alone. They had no through-put capacity to speak of. Had it been shown during the WW2 that the said "gas chambers" were actually designed by a German -- and not by the paid priests of the Jewish "Holocaust religion" -- someone in the technical section of the Waffen SS could have been fully expected to blow his brains out.
Counterbias
Chuck Brucks wrote:
-------From: Dieter >
Date: Dec 23, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: alleged German WWII gas chambers
To:

Hello,
Good article on what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians and hope to do so to ALL Arabs and Muslims…
However you still make reference to "German WWII atrocities against the Jews, i.e. gas chambers".

This claim is Zionism most effective weapon.

Just ask yourself where all these millions of survivors of these mythical gas chambers came from….
I do not deny that the Jews were not put into camps by the German government. They were, however, put there to isolate them from the REAL Europeans. In the camps they were made to work. These camps had hospitals for them, many babies were even born there.

May I suggest ( I hope that you indeed have an open mind) to visit good websites which prove beyond the shadow of a doubt what a BIG ZIONIST LIE the alleged murder by gas in WWII of Jews is?
Here are a couple of good websites:
www.zundelsite.org
www.jewwatch.com
www.vho.org

the fact that the Zionist dominated German government is outlawing historical facts being exposed ought to make an inquisitive mind wonder WHAT is being hidden there…
Best to you!
Dieter in Arizona


--
Salaam. nadia

www.StudentLoanJustice.Org

www.nadiasindi.blogspot.com

http://www.aaiusa.org/

http://www.muslimadvocates.org

ADC: http://www.adc.org

MPAC: http://www.mpac.org

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."

-- William O Douglas



"I have learned silence from the talkative,
tolerance from the intolerant
and kindness from the unkind.
I should not be ungrateful to those teachers."

Jubran Khalil Jubran




Make the switch to the worl

[nickatnoon61]

Why do you bother wasting energy on my threads seanx?

Yet again, you have nothing of substance to add, just silly snide remarks. Have a go at rebuttal instead of making the usual accusations regarding people being a Nazi or hate monger.
seanx, is a waste of cyberspace,phantom, and he has NOTHING!!!! The same morons attack anyone who tries to get at the truth. Speaking of which ,Adimon should be here shortly. :eek: Icke talks about these nitwits in his books.....

[nickatnoon61]

..but eventually the gatekeepers end up stepping on their tongues. Somebody asked just recently my opinion on Bjerknes, and had to be evaluated on his previous writings. Attacks on the ZioJewry, exposition of their felonies, and other niceties we ALL know about, put him on 'our side' of the fence. But since Ron Paul is making STRIDES in his (his grassroots followers') bid for the Presidency, and threatens the Zionist empire in the US and eventually worldwide, now the tactics are changing dramatically, where the man Ron is demeaned at every moment, in a FUTILE attempt to discourage the Revolution he INSTIGATED, but which ONLY his supporters can fulfill.

Mister, thanks for providing the means to identify one more gatekeeper. Without this shit-piece, we would be fooled still by the typical double talk, false-flag ops of zionist STOOGES. i owe you one more.

h.


JEWISH RACISM

Ron Paul: Seeing Through the Glittering Generalities

Christopher Jon Bjerknes

http://www.jewishracism.com

http://www.jewishracism.blogspot.com

http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2007/12/ron-paul-seeing-through-glittering.html

Allow me to preface this article with the statement that I hope Ron Paul wins the Republican primaries. Sometimes we need a Santa Claus to believe in if only to inspire us to hope. Sometimes we need a stooge to show us the way to empower ourselves.

[how cute! Bjerknes reminds me of that pathetic Jew who wished Ron the Presidency, but insisted in knowing why Ron would stop feeding the isreali parasite regime if elected. The only stooge is Bjerknes for his service to Zionism Internationale. The ONLY country affected by Dr. Paul's government will be the pariah outpost in the ME, and the RobberBaron PigDen in City of London.]

Whether Paul wins the primaries, or not, the American People have won by way of an example as to how to organize and side step the media. That said, I am not naive. I have observed that the organization in support of Ron Paul has not come from the grass roots, but rather from the gold mines, gold merchants and Zionist Hollywood Jews. But do not let me spoil your belief in Santa until we have found a way to replace the illusion with American factories and sound currency issued by the People for the People.

[The CAMPAIGN may be organized, as usual, with ubiquitous JEWS, as in ANY other enterprise nowadays, but it is the movement generated by his speeches and political record, even abroad, that makes him the ONLY candidate at the moment capable of stopping the mafia in Washington and Wall Street.]

Gold is not sound currency. It is a limited commodity the supply of which can be artificially and privately reduced and increased by way of fraud and collusion. Jewish bankers will demand the "freedom" to treat gold as a privileged commodity, the "freedom" to monopolize it in cartels, etc.

[Who is talking about a 'gold standard' or 'privileged commodities'? Or Jews controlling the gold? Isn't THAT what the FED is all about? And what Ron keeps pounding he will abolish? A US Dollar BASED or BACKED by gold and silver RESERVES, as demanded by the Constitution, a 'silver certificate' instead of paper money, is what Ron is demanding. Bjerknes is misinformed or a paid disinformant. Your pick.]

True freedom is best secured by a well educated and prosperous populace, and Ron Paul's domestic policies will not get us there.

[Savior Bjerknes has spoken. Amen. But he BADLY needs to watch a handful of speeches by Ron Paul, to realize what we KNOW.]

I suspect that Ron Paul is running for President for one reason and one reason only. He is a tool of the Jewish bankers and their goal is to make us clamor for "banking reforms" which they have drafted and which will grant the bankers amnesty and/or immunity for their crimes; and which will bail the bankers out at the expense of the taxpayer; and which will secure debts owed to the bankers with hard, seizable assets and make them profits off of precious metals and allow the international Jewish bankers to continue to control the American money supply, regulate price levels, govern international trade, hinder or stimulate growth, etc.

[Now Ron is a 'suspect' tool of the Jew Banksters?? 'Banking reforms'?? WHERE Bjerknes gets this disinfo from? The Jew Banksters?? WHAT part of ABOLISHING THE IRS AND THE FED does this Bjerk doesn't get?? Poor English comprehension?? Or DISINFO BS?]

Jewish organizations, Jewish controlled politicians and the Jewish controlled media are undermining our civil liberties, making us desperate to secure our natural rights which are recognized in the Constitution. Since Jewry has made us clamor to protect our rights, they are using Ron Paul to forward a deceptive message that the Constitution is our guarantee of rights and that it must be strictly adhered to in terms of Ron Paul's interpretation of it. They have created a dilemma and they are proposing their solution to the dilemma that they have deliberately created.

[BULLSHIT, bJERKnes! The Constitution IS a guarantee against despotic government, the Bill of Rights is OUR protection against would-be despots. But so many TRAITORS in goverment these days, both documents have been trashed with impunity. Ron Paul is NOT interpreting the Constitution, he is READING IT, something Bjerknes has NOT done, not of his self-interest. Hey, the Ziopiggery is WORRIED!]

Our rights are secured by our existence and our ability to defend them, not by Ron Paul or the Constitution. The Constitution is rather a social contract which recognizes our natural rights and serves as an enforceable agreement. If the courts and other branches of the government are corrupt, the Constitution is not a protection, but only a guide, and the contract has been breached. However, our rights and other means of enforcing our rights remain.

[Here ya go! The CLEANEST of all candidates, impossible to smear by the Ziopigs since there is NOTHING they can accuse him off, not even throwing banana peels on the lawn, and the ONLY document that can still save the decaying Republic, the US Constitution, are being DEMOTED by a dubious writer from a more dubious (ethnic) origin, and you all know how devious some 'ethnikrauts' are... If this is not the TRADEMARK of disinformant zionists, what is?]

I believe that Paul is wrapping himself in the Constitution for one reason and one reason only. He, and those who pull his strings, want us to interpret the following part of the Constitution to mean that we should operate our economy on gold based currency:

['BELIEF' and 'knowledge' are NOT synonymous, and NEVER were. Either Bjerknes KNOWS or he is just SPECULATING. But more than that, he is DISINFORMING. How ignorant does the think Ron Paul followers are? Does he really believe they are a dumb cheering sheeple behind a 'leader', as it WAS before the INTERNET awoke the MASSES?]

"Article 1, Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."

[NOTHING above correlates with his previous statements. One silver certificate equals one redeemable silver coin, period. It is NOT dumbness on his part, it is DISINFORMATION. The Zios are having a diarrhea spree.]

This is why Paul speaks in glittering generalities of "freedom" and honoring the Constitution. In fact, he wants to take away our freedom to issue our own money through our government and without the intercession of the Jewish gold merchants. He wants to take away our freedom to recover our losses from the Jewish bankers. He cowers from confronting the traitorous Jewish fifth column which is stealing away our civil liberties.

[Bjerknes sits comfortably before his puter and spews his rethoric 'against' Jew Banksters, while Ron Paul RISKS his life every time he walks among ordinary people on the streets. Ron has NO power still to stop the criminal machine, UNTIL he seats LEGALLY at the Presidency, and PRESIDES the FUTURE Congress, not the present WHOREHOUSE, in order to restore honesty and legality in government. This 'gold standard by jews' is BULLSHIT disinforming poopaganda, by a zionist poopagandist.]

If we truly want to secure our liberties and enforce those rights iterated in the Constitution, then we have to fight back against organized Jewry. This does not interest Paul. For him all that glitters in his glittering generalities is gold, and our fundamental human rights are only props on the stage.

[WHAT?? Now this Bjerk admits there IS power in the Constitution?? SEE how LIARS trample on their dragging tongues? Long tirades by these disinformants are intent in mesmerizing the readers to make them swallow their 'ideas'. If anyone in recent YEARS has fought valiantly though in vain, given the corrupt nature of CONgre$$ today, it is Ron Paul. For those who have SEEN the videos, new and old, of such fierce fighter that is Ron Paul, this tripe about 'props on the stage' by this bJERK, is simply a regurgitation of the Masters of Deceit, in the words of one of their mout-pieces.]

It appears that Ron Paul's goals are to secure the interests of the bankers, not our freedom. As the Jewish bankers maintain control over our economy and monetary system, they will maintain control over our lives. We have to fight for our rights, not by enslaving ourselves to gold, but by bettering ourselves through education and hard work, through savings and personal and social discipline; and by confronting our enemy directly and unapologetically.

[MORE BULLSHIT! What part of ABOLISHING THE JEW BAKERY Bjerknes can't READ? How can Ron Paul, and he alone, dethrone the banksters, AS A CONGRESSMAN?? Solutions, Mr. Big Mouth, SOLUTIONS, please. Why doesn't HE confront them banksters, and stop the thievery? He claims SOVEREIGN citizenship, doesn' t he? SHOW US!]

World Jewry has brought us into perpetual war, which nets them profits and forwards their Zionist agenda for Mid-East hegemony and World rule. By controlling the cast of candidates for US President, Jewry has left us shredded on the two horns of another dilemma. We can elect their openly warmongering candidates, or we can elect their gold plated stooge. Our interests are not served by either side of the bull charging from behind to gore us in the rear.

[So this guy now wants US to abandon Ron, and then WHAT?? There has to be ONE PRESIDENT, period. WHICH one, Mr. Bjerk? Which stooge YOU recommend?]

We already elected a supposedly anti-war Congress and they have betrayed us. This traitorous Jewish controlled Congress can declare war at any time, no matter who is, or is not, elected President. We have to raise our voices in outrage and demand our government serve our interests. We have to demand the Congress prosecute the criminals Bush and Cheney. Then we will have power.

[Has ANYONE seen Bjerknes LEADING A CROWD of resentful, angry, demanding citizens, ramming into Cheney's or Dubya's offices? Or the CONgresscritters'? Does he consider it dangerous, risky? Why put ALL responsibility on Ron Paul? Because Ron actually hints to END the Ziopig grip on the US government.]

Electing Ron Paul gives him power, not us. We will have power when we exercise it directly through boycott, demonstrations, public debate, civil disobedience, etc. I do not see Ron Paul organizing such action which empowers the People, but then he is a politician trying to get elected and what he is doing is working.

[BULLSHIT, BJERK! There is enough information available NOW about Ron Paul.... DIG on it, and expose anything condemnable, if you find it. You WON'T, the ZioCONS haven't found it, nor AIPAC, israel, the Rockefellers, the banksters, Dubya, or ANYONE. What this bJERK is proposing is ANARCHY, with no leaders to administer law and justice, making us totally isolated and vulnerable to such VULTURES as the zionist outpost of israel, the British Rothschilds, and the scoundrels within the Bush/Clinton Crime Family.]

I wish him success. Perhaps, if by hook, crook or miracle, Paul wins the Republican primary, or even if he gives a strong showing, some genuine candidate will appear to run as a third party candidate. In any event, it will be healthy for Americans to become enthused about having alternatives, if only in an illusion. This will make it easier for others to enter the arena, but I caution against the hero worship which is being so heavily promoted.

[HYPOCRITE. bJERK can't hide his spite for Ron, which proves he is nothing but a zionist stooge doing his 'best' to disinform the enthused masses behind Ron. Grade? FAILED. Miserably at best. Enjoy it while it lasts. The Beast will be cast into the Abyss, as prognosticated.]

Ron Paul is not a great man. His policies are unoriginal, scripted, simplistic and little more than disingenuous gimmicks to win support from the gullible and uninsightful for the Jewish bankers to again seize control of our money supply. By wrapping himself in the Constitution without enunciating sound policy, Paul is just like Huckabee, who is trying to win and serve Jewish interests by standing on the cross. We need to elevate the debate so that we can empower ourselves, not childishly worship the rather mediocre Ron Paul and play follow the leader.

[HA! What a BASTARD JEW! THIS proves beyond doubt the Ron Paul Revolution is making the Ziokhans SHIT in their pants! All this anti-Ron Paul diatribe was about 'gold money', what a FREAK! They are OUT of TRICKS, indeed! The Money Mafia is having a FIT!!]

Let Paul continue with his glittering generalities—that is politics in Jewish controlled America. We have to raise the level of debate among ourselves. No one will do it for us, and we have to defeat those who stand in our way.

[Am SURE this Bjerk already watched http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4156174553630131591 (Congressman Ron Paul, MD - We've Been NeoConned), most likely provided to him by the ADL, which incidentally HAS NEVER CHARGED HIM WITH ANTI-SEMITISM, harrassed him like many others, or threatened him with 'retaliation' by the terrorist Mossad. How interesting. And REVEALING.]

posted by stopdestruction at 11:14 AM

From: John Kaminski <skylax@comcast.net>
Date: December 24, 2007 9:58:21 PM EST
Subject: Re: Jewish Racism: Ron Paul: Seeing Through the Glittering Generalities

Well said.

jk

On Dec 24, 2007, at 8:36 PM, World Changer wrote:

[steevo]

Phantom are you gonna answer my questions. I hope so.

[warrior]

At the end of the day many Jews died in WW2. Was it really 6 million? Probably not, but all your doing by posting this is creating conflict and probably causing alot of upset to certain people.

Utter nonsense. Should we never study the accuracy of any historical event in case it upsets some people. And who is it going to upset??? The assholes who lied about how many died? oh yeah, we don't want to upset them.

We can study the events, and not be afraid of the truth. If the results of hard studying shows approx 6 million died thenfine, it is verifyied, if it shows that far fewer num bers died then you have to wonder why the 6 million figure was sold to the world so readily, and why revising that figure is considered a crime??? (creation of israel)

[lyliade]

I was going to stick this post elsewhere but I think it is appropriate here. If a mod thinks it should be moved to another board, be my guest and move it

My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners

By Guiseppe Furioso

The Holocaust consists of three basic elements:

1. Approximately 6 million Jews were deliberately killed.

2. These killings were part of a state-sponsored program on the part of the Third Reich whose ultimate goal was the total eradication of the Jewish people.

3. The bulk of these murders took place in special camps where the principal mechanism of execution was the homocidal gas chamber that utilized Zyclon B, a commercial pesticide whose active ingredient was hydrogen cyanide.

That the Third Reich possessed the technological and administrative means to carry out such a vast amount of killing there is little doubt. The Soviet Union with significantly inferior assets in these areas was able to kill far larger numbers of human beings. Furthermore, the armies of the Third Reich succeeded in killing at least ten million of its heavily armed military opponents in the course of World War II. Hence, the killing of 6 million unarmed civilians should not have presented any unique problems to such an industrially advanced and bureaucratically efficient state as Nazi Germany. On the contrary, it would have been far easier.

My doubts about the Holocaust are not centered around whether it could have happened, but whether it did happen. In fact, many of the doubts that I have are the direct consequence of the fact that I have no doubt that it actually could have happened; but certainly not in the ways that have been described thus far in the “official” literature.

It is part of the Western tradition that in legal, scientific, and intellectual matters that those asserting something have the burden of proof, and that those who disagree are not required to provide evidence. This tradition however has been turned on its head regarding the Holocaust since the “historical truth” of the Holocaust has been posited in advance. Furthermore, even to express doubts can result in criminal penalties in at least 11 so-called democratic countries and the ruining of lives and careers in numerous others.

Listed below are some of the “problems” I have with the Holocaust. Should these be cleared up, it would go a long way toward my accepting it. They are in no particular order.

1. Why did Elie Wiesel and countless other Jews survive the Holocaust if it was the intention of the Third Reich to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on? Elie was a prisoner for several years; other Jews survived even longer. Most of these “survivors” were ordinary people who did not have any unique expertise that the Germans could have exploited for their war effort. There was no logical reason for them to be kept alive. The very existence of more than a million survivors even today, some sixty years later, contradicts one of the basic components of the Holocaust, i.e., that the Germans had a policy to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on.

2. Why is there no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill’s six-volume History of the Second World War or the wartime memoirs of either De Gaulle or Eisenhower or any other lesser luminaries who wrote about the Second World War? Keep in mind all these were written years after the war ended and thus after the Holocaust had been allegedly proven by the Nuremberg Trials. With regard to the Holocaust, the silence of these “conoscenti” is deafening!

3. What was an inmate infirmary (and a brothel) doing in Auschwitz if in fact it was a death camp?

4. Why would the Germans round up Jews from their far-flung empire, thereby tying up large numbers of personnel and rolling stock, while fighting a war on two fronts, to deliver people to “death camps” hundreds of miles away who were then executed upon arrival? Wouldn’t a bullet on the spot have appealed to the legendary German sense of efficiency?

5. Why after sixty years have historians not been able to come up with a single German document that points to a Holocaust? Should we believe the likes of Raul Hilberg that in the place of written orders there was an “incredible meeting of the minds” by the literally tens of thousands of people who would have had to coordinate their actions in order to carry out an undertaking of this magnitude?

6. How come it is still insisted upon that six million Jews were killed when the official Jewish death toll at Auschwitz, the flagship of the Holocaust gulag, from an immediate post-war figure of 3 million to a figure of somewhat less than one million? Why do many respond to this observation by saying “what’s the difference if it was six million or one million.” The answer is that the difference is five million. Another difference is that saying so can get you three years in an Austrian jail. Just ask David Irving!

7 . All of Germany’s wartime codes were compromised including the ones used to send daily reports from Auschwitz to Berlin. The transcripts of these messages make no mention of mass executions or even remotely suggest a genocidal program in progress. Furthermore it has been insisted that the Germans used a kind of euphemistic code when discussing their extermination program of the Jews, e.g., final solution, special treatment, resettlement, etc. Why was it necessary for them to use such coded euphemisms when talking to each other unless they thought their codes had been cracked by the Allies?

8. The watertable at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which makes claims of huge burning pits for tens of thousands of bodies untenable.

9. Initially, claims were made that mass executions in homicidal gas chambers had taken place in camps located within the boundaries of the old Reich, e.g., Dachau, Bergun-Belsen. “Evidence” to that effect was every bit as compelling as what was offered for other camps, located in occupied Poland, yet without explanation in the early sixties we were told that this was not the case and that all the “death camps” were located in the east, i.e., Poland outside (some would say conveniently) of the probing eyes of Western scholars.

10. No one has been able to reconcile the eyewitness accounts that personnel entered the gas chambers after twenty minutes without any protective gear and the fact that Zyclon B was a “time-release” fumigant that would have had a lethal capability for at least another twenty-four hours. And that even after twenty-four hours the corpses would have remained sufficiently contaminated by the hydrogen cyanide gas that they would have had the capacity to kill anyone who touched them who was not wearing protective gear.

11. Why do we no longer hear the claims that the Germans manufactured soap, lamp shades and riding britches from the bodies of dead Jews? Could it be that in light of modern forensics and DNA knowledge that these claims are totally untenable?

12. Why do we no longer hear claims that huge numbers of Jews were exterminated in massive steam chambers or electrocuted on special grids? “Evidence” of this was presented at Nuremberg. Evidence that sent men to the gallows.

13. Elie Wiesel has been described as the “Apostle of Remembrance” yet in his memoir, “Night,” which deals with his stay at Auschwitz, he makes no mention of the now infamous homicidal gas chambers. Isn’t this a bit like one of the gospels making no mention of the cross?

14. Virtually every survivor who was examined at Auschwitz says he or she was examined by Dr. Joseph Mengele.

15. According to survivor testimony, hundreds of thousands of Jews were executed at Treblinka and then buried in mass graves in the surrounding area. Why is it that extensive sonar probing of these burial grounds reveals that this final resting place for Holocaust victims has remained undisturbed since at least the last ice age?

16. “Proof” of the Holocaust rests largely on survivor testimony; there is little if any hard evidence. The best of this has been described by Jean Claude Pressac as merely “criminal traces.” Even Judge Grey who presided at the Irving-Lipstadt trial commented that he was surprised the evidence pointing to the Holocaust was “extremely thin.” To paraphrase Arthur Butz, “a crime of this magnitude would have left a mountain of evidence. Where is it? There was more hard evidence found against OJ Simpson at his trial and he was found innocent!”

17. Why has Holocaust Revisionism been criminalized in at least eleven countries? What other historic truth needs the threat of prison or the destruction of one’s career to maintain itself? Should someone be sent to prison for expressing skepticism about the official Chinese claim that they suffered thirty-five million dead in World War II?

18. Why do the court historians insist that “denying the Holocaust” is like denying slavery or saying the earth is flat, when it is nothing of the sort? The leading Revisionists are first-rate scholars who hold advanced degrees from the world’s leading universities. Is there anyone comparable among those who would say the earth is flat or that slavery never existed?

19. Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concern about remembering the Holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven’t Civil War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959?

20. Survivors of the Holocaust testified that smoke billowed from the crematoria as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims. Some eyewitnesses even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoria do not emit smoke of any color?

21. According to the offical version of the Holocaust hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were rounded up in mid-1944 and sent to Auschwitz, where most were gassed immediately upon arrival and their bodies disposed of by burning in huge open air pits using railroad ties and gasoline. Why is there no evidence of these huge funerary pyres in the high resolution surveillance photos taken by Allied aircraft who were overflying the camp on a daily basis? Furthermore, why have no remains been found, since open pit burning, even when gasoline is used, generates insuffienct heat to totally consume a body?

22. All of the liberated camps were littered with corpses; is there a single autopsy report or any other forensic evidence that shows that even a single death was as a consequence of poison gas?

23. The death toll for the Holocaust lies exclusively on population statistics provided by Jewish sources; has any independent demographic study been produced that shows that 6 million Jews were “missing” at the end of the war?

24. Why do the wartime inspection reports of the camps made by the International Red Cross contain no references to mass executions? It strains credulity that such monumental crimes could be hidden. The only explanations are that these crimes were not occurring or that the Red Cross was complicit in a cover-up.

25. Why has there been no effort to respond to the Leuchter report?

26. “The Holocaust was technically possible because it happened.” Why is this intellectually bankrupt argument, which turns scholarship on its head, considered by the promoters of the Holocaust as historical truth, considered a sufficient response to the mounting Revisionist evidence to the contrary?

27. What other historical truths rely to the extent that the Holocaust does rely on eyewitness testimony, and why have none of these eyewitnesses every been cross examined?

28. According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained ignorant of their fate until the very end, so skillful were their Nazi murders in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact that the Jews have historically been as a group the most literate and highly informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest levels of government?

guiseppefurioso@aol.com

Link (http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/2006/12/12/my-holocaust-problems-a-primer-for-beginners/)

50 millions people died that i know but 6 millions jews i don' think so it's a lie to feed the zionist land israel for making more wars and terrorism around this beautiful world.

I'M SICK OF ALWAYS HEARING THE SAME LIES LIKE THAT,JEWS IS A RELIGION NOT A RACE.STOP speaking of these people.

[sunyatta60]

Sean, if you think that people who ask questions are living in the gutter then it is you who is in the wrong Forum, you would do better off going and joining the Royal Forum or the Roman Catholic message board.
I am very much in line with the person who wrote the OP it does matter whether it was 1 Jew or 100 million jews that died. I personally think the number was exaggerated so that the people of the world feeling guilty would be suckerd into allowing the Zionist State of Israel to be plonked down in the Middle East with virtually no opposition to it.
You and others who think like you do have no problem about being lied to but more and more people are waking up to the deceit and thankfully they are making a noise and exposing the lies. You just stay in your ignorant state of mind while those of us who want to escape and have escaped from the left brain prison help others too.

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.
Albert Einstein

[phantom]

Mr Jones

you are off your bloody rocker.
i hate the fact we cant question the holocaust.
you shouldnt be getting all self-rightious because of a random comment.

warrior is a fool and so are you

merry christmas

Hi Mr Jones and Merry Christmas to you.

I was not implying that you were taking the piss out of me by saying “It is easier to take the piss or throw insults at the one asking the serious questions” when you said: “the earth is flat”. I should have made that clear when I replied to warrior. I knew at the time you were defending the article.

I apologise for any misunderstandings. I know you do not support the official story.

Hi steevo

Phantom, would you say that Hitler "liked" CERTAIN Jews and not others because in your post it says some of the Jews were allowed to survive ?

I guess Hitler liked “some jews”, it is a fact that he dealt with the zionists (http://www.labournet.net/other/0612/prinz1.html). It is a fact that Hitler had over a hundred thousand jewish soldiers (http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html) serving in his army. Hitler's close friend Emil Maurice who was a jew founded the Schutzstaffel ("Protection Unit" or SS) a personal bodyguard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_political_beliefs).

Was there persecution of the Jews in your opinion ? If so which ones ?

Yes there was.

Hitler believed that jewish hierarchy was responsible for WWI, the French and Russian revolutions and blamed them for WWII. Hitler wanted to clear Europe of the jews but not by genocide. Hence the haavara agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_agreement). But even though he was working with the zionists to help rid Europe of the jews before the war, the zionist jews declared economic war on Germany in 1933 (http://www.rense.com/general45/zzo.htm). Even though the zionists declared this boycott Hitler had another plan in 38/39 to rid the jews from Europe and that was called Madagascar Plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan). As you can see, Hitler on two occasions tried to remove the jews without a genocidal plan. Once war broke out, Hitler used the jews as a forced labour.

Did the Jews have tattoos used for identification purposes ? If so why ?

The tattoos were only used at Auschwitz 1, Auschwitz Birkenau, and Monowitz, no other camp used them. Prior to tattooing, several means of identifying prisoners, both by number and by category, had been implemented; serial numbers were the main method. When they arrived at the camp, prisoners were issued serial numbers which were then sewn to their prison uniforms. These serial numbers were most often accompanied by different shapes, symbols or letters which identified the status, nationality, or religion of the prisoner. This practice continued even after tattooing was introduced (http://www.chgs.umn.edu/educational/tattoo.html).

Who did Hitler see as the enemy of Germany in YOUR opinion and I'm talking of homegrown enemies ?

Zionism. Hitler knew they were sneaky and even though he was dealing with them he knew how they operated and didn’t trust them in my opinion. So rather than genocide the jews, who zionism was using for their own ends, he dealt with them in a proper manner.

Do YOU see Hitler as being a "great" man and if so why ?

Not so much a great man but he was a great orator and a good leader. Many famous people have said great things about Hitler as I pointed out on another thread.

Was Hitlers approach to the Jews the RIGHT approach in YOUR opinion ?

If the zionist hierarchy were the people behind the both Russian and French revolutions and WWI and WWII as Hitler believed, then his approach was one any world leader would have taken.

In your opinion, how many Jews died in the holocaust and how did they die ? Or was there NOT a holocaust in your opinion ?

I cannot put a figure on how many jews died during the war and I will not hazard a guess. It is a fact that many jews were treated in a bad way while in the camps, some were no doubt shot, hung and as it seems, were experimented on but the majority in my opinion died from diseases like typhus throughout the war years and towards the end, many starved to death thanks to the allied bombings of the train lines. Epidemics run wild at the wars end and could not be treated because no medicine could get through thanks to the allied bombings of the train lines.

Was there a holocaust? Well, that depends on how we take the meaning of the word. If we are to believe its literal meaning then NO I don’t believe there was a holocaust. As you already know, I have dissected quite a bit to try and prove to the reader that the holocaust could not have happened in the ways we have all been told.

Now I have answered your questions steevo, maybe you will show me the same courtesy by answering the few I have for you.

Why do you believe the holocaust stories?
Do you believe the six million figure even though officially, more than three million + have been deducted from that official number?
Have you ever read any revisionist books or articles?
Do you know how many camps supposedly used gas chambers?
Did you know that only Auschwitz tattooed prisoners?

I have a lot more questions for believers but I think those few are good enough for now.

[steevo]

Why do you believe the holocaust stories?

As I have already said, I dont believe the holocaust stories in the way that they have been told to us, and I think that Israel was created to house the surviving Jews VERY CONVENIENTLY but there probably is SOME truth in SOME of the holocaust stories. I find it hard to believe ANY history that tptb tried to indoctrinate into me at school and afterwards.

Do you believe the six million figure even though officially, more than three million + have been deducted from that official number?

No I dont believe the figures and never have (except when I was a child). I know how "history" and "historians" work enough to not believe anything they tell me.

Have you ever read any revisionist books or articles?

I have NOT read those books and dont intend to. I already know that the history of the holocaust has been fabricated so I dont feel that I need to know the details. I know how the Illuminati work so I ignore their BS history lessons. So what I'm saying is that I feel that my thoughts on the holocaust dont need "revising".

Do you know how many camps supposedly used gas chambers?

It's hard to know that for sure because there is alot of misinformation and disinformation going around, but like I say I already believe that the "holocaust" was fabricated (at least to some extent) to forward their agenda. Having said that, I believe that innocent Jews (and others who were put in the same catergory) were put to death one way or another, but how many camps had gas chambers I cant say because I wasnt there and there is so much misinformation about that none of us can really say but we can but guess that there were alot of lies because we know how the Illuminati worked back then and how they still work today.

Did you know that only Auschwitz tattooed prisoners?

I know that some of the Jews WERE tatooed but dont know the exact details of which camps. Why do YOU think that Hitler tattooed Jews ? I mean why would he do that, in YOUR opinion, to innocent people ?

From what you said you SEEM to think that Hitler was a good man (correct me if I'm wrong) ? Do you also think George W Bush is a great/good man ?

You have read some revisionist books and learned lots of new info with regards WW2, now with the new info that you have gained would you say that Hitlers approach to the Jews was RIGHT in YOUR opinion (did he do the RIGHT thing) ?

Did Hitler's troops INVADE countries and kill people who resisted them ? Is this what a good man would do ?

So you believe that Hitler was gonna relocate all the Jews of Europe to Madagascar ? Would this have been the RIGHT thing to do (and I DONT mean as opposed to killing them) ?

Can you not see how Hitlers was wrong ? And you think I'm brainwashed lol ? Do you realise there are very probably lots of fabrications which tell us how Hitler was a great man and was only trying to do good things for his country ? Hitler was a very interesting leader, like him or hate him but you just couldnt ignore him. He had something about him that was very magnetic, and even today people try to tell us how great he was and they seem to be obsessed with his persona in the same way alot of Americans are with Bush (Bush couldnt even tie his own shoelaces tho). Yes HITLER stood out as a world leader and made some MASSIVE decisions (just like Bush) but big leaders have a knack of attracting sheeple who are impressed with their APPARANT power.

Look I dont REALLY care very much about this Hitler thing but what I do give a shit about is people trying to spread hate against the Jews (or Muslims or any other races/religions). Hatred and/or blaming a race/religion is an Illuminati tactic and it's called DIVIDE AND CONQUER/RULE. KNOW YOU ENEMY - It's the Illuminati and the Elite who plot against the world populations not the brainwashed Jewish population in Israel. The Illuminati have massive interests in Israel for OBVIOUS reasons.

[sunyatta60]

Look I dont REALLY care very much about this Hitler thing but what I do give a shit about is people trying to spread hate against the Jews (or Muslims or any other races/religions).

Like far to many people who want to shout down those who question the holohoax; you cannot Separate REAL Jews From Zionism. The two are not the same which is why many Real Torah Loving Jews oppose Zionism.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you.
REv 3 3:9

[maggie]

:)Look I dont REALLY care very much about this Hitler thing but what I do give a shit about is people trying to spread hate against the Jews (or Muslims or any other races/religions).

Like far to many people who want to shout down those who question the holohoax; you cannot Separate REAL Jews From Zionism. The two are not the same which is why many Real Torah Loving Jews oppose Zionism.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you.
REv 3 3:9

You addressed that beautifully.This is so true.The real Jews want nothing to do with the Zionists.The real Jews (mosty sephardic) are peace loving and were actually saved by Muslims during WW11.They were living inMorrocco when the Nazis came.When the Germans asked if there were any Jews living there the Moroccon gov't.responded by saying that only Moroccons live there.The germans left.The true Jews and Muslims have always co-existed in peace.

[sunyatta60]

:)
You addressed that beautifully.This is so true.The real Jews want nothing to do with the Zionists.The real Jews (mosty sephardic) are peace loving and were actually saved by Muslims during WW11.They were living inMorrocco when the Nazis came.When the Germans asked if there were any Jews living there the Moroccon gov't.responded by saying that only Moroccons live there.The germans left.The true Jews and Muslims have always co-existed in peace.

Thanks I just don't understand why people cannot make the distinction. I mean Herzl was a Secularist probably hell bent on destroying Judaism. I have had these arguments with Zionist on other boards lol originally Zionist Israel was destined to be put in Uganda or so they claim here is what one Zionist Prat came out with:

Chomsky is an ATHEIST!!
He knows nothing about Judaism.

So was Herzl and I hope the penny drops because his goal was to destroy the susperstitous beliefs that you hold onto ie Judaism. So in that respect Chomsky is in excellent company!!!

[lyliade]

Einstein is a hoax as well like the holocoasterhoax it was made for money and notoriety of the zionism movement! And jews are very stupid to believe this and follow blindly whatever!

[paganus]

the whole thing just overshadows anything anyone else ever suffered.thats its purpose.a little like the 'broken home' excuse for the way a badly behaved person acts.it also ensures no future national socialist party ever gets anywhere because of 'guilt by association'

[zarah]

The very fact that to question the 'holocaust' as it's been recorded is illegal in some countries is a huge red flag for anyone interested in true history and not fables which benefit one group of people over others.

Phantom makes some very valid and sensical points, in my opinion, and I'm gonna save the link for future reference ;)

Jews did suffer and were persecuted but so were many other social groups.

[steevo]

The very fact that to question the 'holocaust' as it's been recorded is illegal in some countries is a huge red flag for anyone interested in true history and not fables which benefit one group of people over others.

Phantom makes some very valid and sensical points, in my opinion, and I'm gonna save the link for future reference ;)

Jews did suffer and were persecuted but so were many other social groups.

Yes Jews DID suffer and so did other groups. The Jews have been given preferential treatment. WHY ? Also the Jews are the "chosen ones".
They are brainwashed, dumb enough and egotistical enough to believe the stories that they are the chosen ones, in the same way that mormons and all the othe religions who believe that THEIR religion is the right one.

IMO the tptb may have created the jews situation (opposite polars) so that they divide and rule the populations (ie Muslims hate Jews, Jews hate muslims). Jews SUPPOSEDLY think that they are better than everyone else and try to try to control everything and are in positions of power all around the world. Well so do the British, Americans etc but I know that the argument is gonna be that "they are all jews". IMO All it takes to sort this BS out is for normal Jews (like everyone else) to wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHmWcRZ72A

[lyliade]

Yes Jews DID suffer and so did other groups. The Jews have been given preferential treatment. WHY ? Also the Jews are the "chosen ones".
They are brainwashed, dumb enough and egotistical enough to believe the stories that they are the chosen ones, in the same way that mormons and all the othe religions who believe that THEIR religion is the right one.

IMO the tptb may have created the jews situation (opposite polars) so that they divide and rule the populations (ie Muslims hate Jews, Jews hate muslims). Jews SUPPOSEDLY think that they are better than everyone else and try to try to control everything and are in positions of power all around the world. Well so do the British, Americans etc but I know that the argument is gonna be that "they are all jews". IMO All it takes to sort this BS out is for normal Jews (like everyone else) to wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHmWcRZ72A


of course they are dump!! the chosen one LOL the damned one more likely!

the german suffer more from ww2 and i have a lot of friend from Germany,and they are not like the propaganda told us,you should read the poisonous mushroom!

[zarah]

Yes Jews DID suffer and so did other groups. The Jews have been given preferential treatment. WHY ? Also the Jews are the "chosen ones".
They are brainwashed, dumb enough and egotistical enough to believe the stories that they are the chosen ones, in the same way that mormons and all the othe religions who believe that THEIR religion is the right one.

IMO the tptb may have created the jews situation (opposite polars) so that they divide and rule the populations (ie Muslims hate Jews, Jews hate muslims). Jews SUPPOSEDLY think that they are better than everyone else and try to try to control everything and are in positions of power all around the world. Well so do the British, Americans etc but I know that the argument is gonna be that "they are all jews". IMO All it takes to sort this BS out is for normal Jews (like everyone else) to wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHmWcRZ72A

You're right in that both Christians and Muslims believe they too have been specially chosen by God and that it's easy to conquer when groups are divided. From what I have read over the years though, I've come to the conclusion that Judaism is not the issue - it's Zionism. A Christian Zionist is just as dangerous as a Jewish Zionist, even more so perhaps because Christianity is a larger religion with a capacity for more people to relate to.

Thanks for the video..Ill have a gander when Ive got through this rubbish paperwork :p

[phantom]

Hi steevo

As I have already said, I dont believe the holocaust stories in the way that they have been told to us, and I think that Israel was created to house the surviving Jews VERY CONVENIENTLY but there probably is SOME truth in SOME of the holocaust stories. I find it hard to believe ANY history that tptb tried to indoctrinate into me at school and afterwards.

What parts of the holocaust do you believe are NOT true steevo?

What parts of the holocaust do you believe ARE true steevo?

No I dont believe the figures and never have (except when I was a child). I know how "history" and "historians" work enough to not believe anything they tell me.

How many do you believe died in the camps during the holocaust and how do you believe they died?

I have NOT read those books and dont intend to.

Fair enough. I chose to read the revisionist books just to see their arguments and proofs for their claims and I am convinced that no holocaust (to use its literal meaning) took place.

I already know that the history of the holocaust has been fabricated so I dont feel that I need to know the details. I know how the Illuminati work so I ignore their BS history lessons. So what I'm saying is that I feel that my thoughts on the holocaust dont need "revising".

Just for saying such things steevo, you will have been branded by some as just another anti-Semite (you just created division) and would be jailed if you lived in one of the European countries where it is against the law to say such things.

It's hard to know that for sure because there is alot of misinformation and disinformation going around, but like I say I already believe that the "holocaust" was fabricated (at least to some extent) to forward their agenda.

No, not really. The holocaust historians have told us that only six such death camps existed: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, and Treblinka and used gas chambers (http://www.deathcamps.info/) to put people to death. Some supposedly used Zyklon B and some used diesel fumes to kill people.

Having said that, I believe that innocent Jews (and others who were put in the same catergory) were put to death one way or another, but how many camps had gas chambers I cant say because I wasnt there and there is so much misinformation about that none of us can really say but we can but guess that there were alot of lies because we know how the Illuminati worked back then and how they still work today.

No one will argue with you and suggest that it was only jewish people who suffered in those camps. Those who would are either looking to start trouble or are just ill informed. But as I already said, only six camps, according to the holocaust scholars, used gas chambers. And as you know, I have shown good argument to try and prove that it would have been impossible for those camps to have killed six million people with Zyklon b and diesel fumes.

I know that some of the Jews WERE tatooed but dont know the exact details of which camps. Why do YOU think that Hitler tattooed Jews ? I mean why would he do that, in YOUR opinion, to innocent people ?

I have already told you that tattoos were only given to those at Auschwitz. Even the holocaust historians tell us the same thing. Tattooing started in Auschwitz in 1941 (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Tattoos.html). It was first placed on the left breast of the prisoner; later, the tattoo location was moved to the inner forearm. It was not only Jews who were marked: all prisoners other than ethnic Germans and police prisoners were tattooed. I believe this was used for the Nazi records so they could keep a count on the prisoners. It was also used as a way to identify prisoners who escaped and were later captured.

Numbering prisoners is still used today. (but not with a tattoo) Ask anyone you know who has been to jail in the UK if they were assigned a number to identify them and they will tell you they were. This is done for prison records.

From what you said you SEEM to think that Hitler was a good man (correct me if I'm wrong) ? Do you also think George W Bush is a great/good man ?

I believe Hitler was a good, strong leader who wanted to take back the power from the zionists who had hijacked Germany. I would never put Bush on par with Hitler. That would be an insult to Hitler. Hitler fought against the zionists, Bush is fighting for them because he is one of them.

You have read some revisionist books and learned lots of new info with regards WW2, now with the new info that you have gained would you say that Hitlers approach to the Jews was RIGHT in YOUR opinion (did he do the RIGHT thing) ?

In a word, YES! As I have already mentioned, the jewish hierarchy (zionists) were working with Hitler to give them a homeland. It was them who Hitler blamed for ruining his nation and in my opinion, he probably thought it was best to move ALL the jews from Germany (and Europe) so that none could regain the power they once had. Hitler did not like the zionists and could have easily killed them all off including ordinary jews but he chose to deal with (not work for) the zionists as a means of ridding his country of their stranglehold.

Did Hitler's troops INVADE countries and kill people who resisted them ? Is this what a good man would do ?

It depends on what you mean by a “good man”? Hitler did not start WWII as we have been told. Hitler had a deal with Poland for the Danzig corridor which was part of Germany until the Versailles treaty gave it to Poland after WWI. At first, Poland agreed to give it back but for some reason they pulled out of the deal. Then, for whatever reason, the poles started to massacre German nationals in Poland. Hitler had protested in writing to the League of Nations dozens of times but to no avail so Hitler decided to come to their aid and invaded Poland. (http://judicial-inc.biz/Broomberg.htm)

Research it for yourself, Hitler did not want war, it was forced upon him.

So you believe that Hitler was gonna relocate all the Jews of Europe to Madagascar ? Would this have been the RIGHT thing to do (and I DONT mean as opposed to killing them) ?

Yes! Not only was it their plans to move jews to Madagascar, their original plan was to move them to Palestine as the zionists wanted. I guess Hitler thought it was best to move all the jews so that none could gain the power the zionists had over Europe, just as they do today.

Just look at history and see how many times the jewish people have been kicked out of countries. (http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~andrew/judaism/timeline.htm) Do you believe it was because people were born with anti-Semitism or could it be because everywhere the jewish people settled their hierarchy took over, as it seems to be the case. I blame jewish persecution on the jewish hierarchy. (zionists) Because of their greed, it turned the people of such nations against the ordinary jews and they all got persecuted. Not just those at the top.

Can you not see how Hitlers was wrong ? And you think I'm brainwashed lol ?

Think about what you just said steevo.

I do not believe Hitler was wrong. Take a look for yourself and see the power of zionism. (Illuminati) Yes, I still say that the power at the top of the pyramid is solely jewish controlled. They have their minions like Bush, cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair and so on and have had many others throughout history but they are not the power. It is hidden as we know. It’s just that I have the front to say it how I see it without the rosy coloured glasses on.

Are you wrong for wanting to see an end to the illuminati?

No, you are not in my eyes.

Therefore, you want nothing different to what Hitler wanted.

You and others may believe that he was part of the illuminati but I do not believe that.

Do you realise there are very probably lots of fabrications which tell us how Hitler was a great man and was only trying to do good things for his country ?

Of course I realised that that is why I decided to look further into it and from what I have found out over the years, I believe he was trying to do the right thing for his country. He knew the power of the zionists and wanted to put an end to it just as you want to see an end to the illuminati power.

Hitler was a very interesting leader, like him or hate him but you just couldnt ignore him. He had something about him that was very magnetic, and even today people try to tell us how great he was and they seem to be obsessed with his persona in the same way alot of Americans are with Bush (Bush couldnt even tie his own shoelaces tho).

I would never put Bush in the same class as Hitler. Hitler was a far better leader and wanted what was best for his country. Bush wants what is best for the zionist illuminati because he is their minion.

Yes HITLER stood out as a world leader and made some MASSIVE decisions (just like Bush) but big leaders have a knack of attracting sheeple who are impressed with their APPARANT power.

You have to stop comparing Hitler to Bush. They are so different on so many levels. Bush does not make decisions, he is told what to do. Hitler did what he thought was right for his people and nation. I doubt that he was controlled as many here believe.

Look I dont REALLY care very much about this Hitler thing but what I do give a shit about is people trying to spread hate against the Jews (or Muslims or any other races/religions). Hatred and/or blaming a race/religion is an Illuminati tactic and it's called DIVIDE AND CONQUER/RULE. KNOW YOU ENEMY - It's the Illuminati and the Elite who plot against the world populations not the brainwashed Jewish population in Israel. The Illuminati have massive interests in Israel for OBVIOUS reasons.

I too give a shit about people spreading hate against others but there is nothing we can do about that. You and others here seem to think that the world masses can come together and put their differences behind them and get along but I believe that is impossible because there are too many things to address that keep us divided.

Sure, I would love to live in a utopia but I know that it will never happen. Call me a defeatist or whatever but I believe I am being a realist.

What you call the illuminati, (a secret organization comprised of all kinds of people) I call the zionist illuminati. (a secret organization comprised of all kinds of people but those at the top are zionist jews)

As I mentioned earlier, some of what you have said will be considered by some as hatred. (anti-Semitic) Just for not believing in some of the holocaust stories, has divided you from those who believe it hook line and sinker. So therefore, you too will never see the utopia that you long for.

I have accepted that, you should too.

[phantom]

Hi sunyatta60

You are so right!

Like far to many people who want to shout down those who question the holohoax; you cannot Separate REAL Jews From Zionism. The two are not the same which is why many Real Torah Loving Jews oppose Zionism.

Real Torah jews HATE zionism and are against the state of israels creation. I believe and maybe Real Torah jews believe, zionism is the root cause of the hatred that is shown today by many ignorant people throughout the world towards the jews.

Unless we can stop zionism together, it will lead to the persecution of the jews again as it has done in the past.

[ssyx]

Another good post phantom, that one up there to steevo.

Keeping me thinking my friend.
:)

[seanx]

Mr Phantom, you're clearly a nazi, a fascist and anti-jewish.

Fine.

You're free to believe what ever you want.

And as this is a free forum you're free to express your
views ( though if Hilter has won the war you wouldn't have this
tiny freedom - as he wasn't too fond of the old free speech idea)

And..... I love the idea- Hitler 'only' invaded Poland because they
started to kill native germans.

Genuis.

In fact, I bet Hilter was a lovely, cuddley, peace-loving hippie
who was only 'forced' to go to war by the bad men of the West.


But can I ask you this?

Why have you come to this forum?

Each of your ideas are REPUNGANT to what Icke has
spent the last 12 years speaking against.

Fasism , nazism and being anti-jewish.

Icke is talking about a state of mind, a cold, soulless,
almost reptilian state of consciousness that runs through
the veins of the Illuminati as they try to impose this soulless,
mechanical control over everybody.

This control is not American, British, Russian or Jewish.

It is a state of being.

A frequency that has been separated from its Primal source
and finds its resonance in the DNA of the families of
the illuminati.

And that illuminati can be of any nationality.

What they have in common is not their race but the vibrational
resonace of their DNA.

Come on. Can you expand your thinking?
And grow out of this juvenile race hatred - blaming one race,
whoever that race is, for all the problems of the world.

[mr jones]

Thanks Phantom, great thread by the way

[phantom]

Hi zarah

The very fact that to question the 'holocaust' as it's been recorded is illegal in some countries is a huge red flag for anyone interested in true history and not fables which benefit one group of people over others.

Because of the laws that exist that forbid us to research the holocaust, it drove me even more to look into it.

I wondered why such a law would be created if everything we had learnt about the holocaust was true. After-all, truth needs no laws to protect it.

Phantom makes some very valid and sensical points, in my opinion, and I'm gonna save the link for future reference

Thank you zarah. You might want to look at some of the other holocaust posts I have been involved in and maybe save them as future references too.

Jews did suffer and were persecuted but so were many other social groups.

SPOT ON!

[phantom]

Hi mr jones and thank you.

I hope I didn't offend you the other day. That was not my intention.

Hi ssyx and thank you too.

All I ask if for those who blindly believe the holocaust stories to stop and think for themselves for a moment. Don't be afraid to question what survivors and holocaust historians have said. It has nothing to do with hatred as the zionists would have us believe, it has everything to do with finding the truth.

The Truth Will Set You Free!

[ssyx]

Mr Phantom, you're clearly a nazi, a fascist and anti-jewish.

Fine.
Or maybe that is just your interpretation seanx.
I and clearly a few others don't agree. Are you going to label all of us?

You're free to believe what ever you want.

And as this is a free forum you're free to express your
views ( though if Hilter has won the war you wouldn't have this
tiny freedom - as he wasn't too fond of the old free speech idea)

So do you believe the "war" was winnable for Hitler then seanx, or was it manufactured as David(I think) and a lot of people here believe?

And..... I love the idea- Hitler 'only' invaded Poland because they
started to kill native germans.

I haven't heard of the Danzig corridor or of Hitler writing to the League Of Nations about Poland killing German nationals. I will be having a look into both.
But it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this occured and acted as a catalyst. Is it?


But can I ask you this?

Why have you come to this forum?
I think this is a valid topic at this forum seanx.
Surely at the Icke forums, anything and everything can be explored/examined/exposed as any poster sees fit.

[phantom]

Hi seanx

Mr Phantom, you're clearly a nazi, a fascist and anti-jewish.

You are clearly ill informed seanx and are jumping to the wrong conclusions about me. I don't know how many times I have to make myself clear to the likes of you but I will do it just one more time.

I AM NOT A NAZI AND I DO NOT HATE JEWS!

Now you will be thinking, "he is only saying that to convince us he is not either of the above when in fact he is" :p

You're free to believe what ever you want.

You do not have to tell me that. I already know.

And as this is a free forum you're free to express your views ( though if Hilter has won the war you wouldn't have this
tiny freedom - as he wasn't too fond of the old free speech idea)

That is a straw man argument seanx. It's like saying, "if Hitler won the war we would all be speaking German". How could anyone possible know that for sure? You are just surmising.

And..... I love the idea- Hitler 'only' invaded Poland because they started to kill native germans.

Research it seanx. Research it from a site that is not zionist controlled. It is a fact that Hitler did not want war and you know it. He was provoked.

Research bromberg - bloody sunday.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XJSyLBhWNkE

Research the Danzig massacres where the Polish Bolsheviks slaughtered some 58000 German Nationals.

In fact, I bet Hilter was a lovely, cuddley, peace-loving hippie who was only 'forced' to go to war by the bad men of the West.

Now you are just being sarcastic seanx. That is typical of those who have not bothered to do any research on the matter.

But can I ask you this? Why have you come to this forum?

I am a fan of Icke and was glad to see that he had finally added a forum to his site where I could join and meet like minded people. I have seen him live at Battersea. I have all his books except for his latest one. (Four of my books are signed when I saw him at Battersea) I have all his videos except his latest one. (I made loads of copies and passed them on to like minded friends in the past)

Each of your ideas are REPUNGANT to what Icke has
spent the last 12 years speaking against.

Is Icke always right? Even he will tell you not to believe everything he says as truth and he encourages us to do our own research. Just because I have come to my own conclusions on a certain subject that Icke briefly talks about, doesn't make me wrong does it.

Maybe Icke doesn't want to address the holocaust in the way I do because he has much more to lose than I do. I respect David Icke for his views and he has taught me a lot but I do not have to believe them all in the way he describes them do I.

I have already stated my belief on the zionist illuminati and who controls it and will not go into it again just for you. You can read it in my reply to steevo.

Come on. Can you expand your thinking? And grow out of this juvenile race hatred - blaming one race, whoever that race is, for all the problems of the world.

There you go again, barking on about me being some kind of racist when I have made it clear to you that it has nothing to do with racism. That is the typical indoctrinated response I get from those who are afraid to contemplate that I may be speaking the truth.

It is a fact that zionist beliefs have been around for millennia and the jewish hierarchy have been looking to control nations for the same amount of time. When they are caught in the act and the people of such nations are encouraged to rise up and expel such leaders, ordinary INNOCENT jews get caught up in the expulsion and are persecuted.

Here is one example of zionist hierarchy philosophy dating back to the 14th century. Taken from this link (http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/hiding.html) that I posted here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15816&highlight=protocols) on another thread.

The Expulsion From Spain

This expulsion, in 1492, was remembered by Jewry in 1992; there had also been an expulsion from parts of France in 1489. Norman Cohn, in Warrant For Genocide (pp. 50-52), reports that a Rothschild publication Revue des etudes juivres (Review of Jewish Studies) published in 1880 a reprint of two famous letters relating to these expulsions: "they are known as The Letter of the Jews of Arles (or, in some versions, of Spain) and The Reply of the Jews of Constantinople; and they read as follows: "Honourable Jews, greetings and blessings! This is to tell you that the King of France, who is again master of Provence, has ordained by public proclamation that we must become Christians or leave his territory. And the people of Arles, Aix and Marseille want to take away our belongings, they threaten our lives, they wreck our synagogues, they cause us much vexation; and all this makes us uncertain what we ought to do to keep the Law of Moses. This is why we ask you to be so good as to let us know, in your wisdom, what we ought to do. Chamor, Rabbi of the Jews of Arles the 13th of Sabath, 1489". "Well-beloved Brethren in Moses, we have received the letter in which you tell us of the anxieties and adversities you are suffering. The advice of the grand satraps and rabbis is as follows: You say that the King of France demands that you become Christians; do so, since you cannot do otherwise, but keep the Law of Moses in your hearts. You say that you are forced to surrender your belongings: then make your children merchants, so that, little by little, they may strip the Christians of their belongings. You say that attempts are made against your lives: then make your children doctors and apothecaries, so that they may deprive Christians of their lives. You say that they are destroying your synagogues: then make your children canons and clerics, so that they may destroy their churches. You say that the people are vexing you in many other ways: then see to it that your children become advocates and notaries, so that you will get the Christians under your yoke, you will dominate the world, and you will be able to take your revenge. Do not depart from this order that we give you, for you will see by experience that, from the abasement in which you now find yourselves, you will attain the summit of power. V.S. S.V.F.F. Prince of the Jews of Constantinople the 21st of Casleu, 1489.

Cohn says that these letters "were meant as a joke - the signature Chamor, for instance, is simply the Hebrew for donkey!" (p. 52). But why were they republished in a Rothschild publication in 1880? - on this, Cohn is silent. Karl Marx put a different view of the expulsions. In The Russian Loan, he wrote, "the Jews ... monopolise the machinery of the loanmongering mysteries by concentrating their energies upon the barter of trade in securities, and the changing of money and negotiating of bills in a great measure arising therefrom. Take Amsterdam, for instance, a city harboring many of the worst descendants of the Jews whom Ferdinand and Isabella drove out of Spain, and who, after lingering awhile in Portugal, were driven thence also, and eventually found a safe place of retreat in Holland. ... The smartest highwayman in the Abruzzi is not better posted up about the locale of the hard cash in a traveller's valise or pocket than those Jews about any loose capital in the hands of a trader". This does not mean that Marx supported the expulsions, because he wrote other articles criticising discrimination against the Jews, but it does hint that the aggravation between the Christian and Jewish communities was not only caused by Catholic intolerance of "infidels"; Jewish moneylending also contributed. In their book Jewish Life in the Middle Ages, Therese and Mendel Metzger write, "However, the Jews were the first people to understand the importance of credit, and as early as the eleventh century they were engaged in providing loans auxiliary to their commerce" (p. 59). As friction between Jews and Christians grew, "in the end money-lending became the last economic link between Jewish groups and the majority of the Christian population" (p. 152). The "religious war" mentality of that time is strongly present in the Protocols.

You can clearly see their zionist plan for domination of nations.

You say that the King of France demands that you become Christians; do so, since you cannot do otherwise, but keep the Law of Moses in your hearts. You say that you are forced to surrender your belongings: then make your children merchants, so that, little by little, they may strip the Christians of their belongings. You say that attempts are made against your lives: then make your children doctors and apothecaries, so that they may deprive Christians of their lives. You say that they are destroying your synagogues: then make your children canons and clerics, so that they may destroy their churches. You say that the people are vexing you in many other ways: then see to it that your children become advocates and notaries, so that you will get the Christians under your yoke, you will dominate the world, and you will be able to take your revenge. Do not depart from this order that we give you, for you will see by experience that, from the abasement in which you now find yourselves, you will attain the summit of power. V.S. S.V.F.F. Prince of the Jews of Constantinople the 21st of Casleu, 1489.

Enough said!

[seanx]

That is a straw man argument seanx. It's like saying, "if Hitler won the war we would all be speaking German". How could anyone possible know that for sure? You are just surmising.

Can you give me the name of one FREE newspaper that was allowed
in Nazi Germany?

And then you're honestly telling me that Hilter would suddenly allow
free papers in Uk/Ireland to criticize him, if he had won.

You're more extreme than even the Nazis. At least they were
honest about their hatred of any form of freedom.

And I noticed- but not surprised you slipped alltogether
commenting on dave icke views on the real nature
of this problem.

Let me repeat it:

Icke is not talking about the Jewish people - or the Americans
OR whatever race or religion you are fixated on.

He is talking about:

A state of mind, a cold, soulless, almost reptilian state of
consciousness that runs through the veins of the
Illuminati as they try to impose this soulless, mechanical
control over everybody.

This control is not American, British, Russian or Jewish.

It is a state of being.

A frequency that has been separated from its
Primal source and finds its resonance in the DNA of the families of
the illuminati.

And that illuminati can be of any nationality or religion.

In fact, you'll find them in every religion and nationality -
and their loyalty is to The Agenda - and nothing else.

But what is more worrying is the 'group' that has suddenly 'appeared'
with you i.e. the sudden appearance of a lot of newish 'members'
who suddenly think these pro-nazi garbage is 'great'.

Icke mentions in his last newsletter that one day he's going to be
set up.

Jaysus, he doesn't have to look far.

Still, it is hard to believe in the 21 century that people like the phantom
and his rent-a -crew still have these childish, simplistic views.

One last Question: Are you a member of any organization. And or any
of your rent-a-crew who think you're 'great' members of the same organization?

Or is this just an automatic outburst of love for poor Mr. Hitler??

This would be the same Mr Hitler who ordered his army to
raze EVEN Germany to the ground as defeat loomed because
they had 'failed him'.

Surely not.

[seanx]

Here's another post you conveniently ignored. mr Phantom?



Cheeb wrote:

Quote:
Karma for Caanan,
What are you going on about,
Icke genuinly beleives "lizards"'
to be ruling the world,
Which is a moot point in my opinion!!!

At least this Phantom/December person does his research,
Prussian blue/iron cynadide was found at Auswitz,
Maybe more concentrated in the so called delousing chambers,
Than the destroyed gas chambers,
See Nuremburg document NI-9912,
And Phantom don't use your lying Lecktor to debunk this OK!!!

Because it takes longer to kill lice,
Than it does to kill men,
So zyklon B was used at Auswitz,
Prooved without a doubt!!!

Going off topic a bit now Phantom,
But quoting Col Leon Jaworski,
At the Hadamar trial 1945:

"Oh, what a viscious falsehood,
What a terrible thing,
What an evil and wicked thing to do to a person,
Who is already suffering and carrying burdens,
To build up the false hope that sunshine was about to enter their hearts'
They told them that they would be given medication that would help them,
Oh yes,
They were given medications'
Medications of poison that gripped their hearts,
and closed their eyelids still,
That is the sort of medication they were given"

The Aktion Rienhard personell'
Also served at Hadamar!!!

Have a nice christmas Phantom,
This is my last word on this for a while,
It seems inapropriate to discuss hatred on Christmas eve!!! What an excellent post.

It's funny.

The Russians murdered millions of their
own citizens under Stalin.

The Chinese murdered millions of their citizens under Mao.

The British let millions of irish starve to a horrible death
as they shipped the food out of Ireland to feed their armies.

The Americans murdered and butchered over 200,000 innocent
people alone in the middle east...

But Mr Phantom wants to believe that the Nazis wouldn't be capable of
doing such a terrible thing to their enemies - the Jews.

That it is all lies. That most of them died of malnutrition or from cutting themselves shaving!

These were the same nazis who were dropping bombs down every
single night on the innocent people of London.

Funny- they had no moral problem potentially killing millions of
Londoners - but not the jews that they hated.


Did some zionist politicans take advantage of the Holercaust to
further the creation of israel.

Of course they did.

But move on. The past is the past.

Accept that all nations and people have the capacity to be evil.

It is not the privilage of any one people or race


The evil is not people but a state of consciousness that
we have all inherited that sees itself as totally separate and isolated
from it's source.

[phantom]

Seanx, you are adding nothing of substance to this thread, all you seem to be doing is calling me and others who seem to agree with me, names and making silly accusations without addressing the facts of the original post.

Sod what news papers were allowed free speech in Nazi Germany. It was probably dominated by zionists anyway, as it is in the West today. It is all straw man argument and distracting from the original content of the post.

We are not discussing what Icke believes in, we are discussing the holocaust in this thread and a typical tactic used by the likes of you, is to try and change the debate. Stay on track and rebut the thread in an intelligent manner instead of using misdirection and throwing childish accusations at me and others.

I am going to ignore and not bother address what you said about icke. I have already made my self clear on what Icke encourages us to do. I do not have to believe his every word and neither should you as he himself advises us not to do so.

Now, I will answer your last question and no more, unless you have something to add as a rebuttal to the original thread or anything else I have said regarding the holocaust, I will make it clear to you now. I am not going to respond to your silly accusations anymore. If you do not like what is posted, simply don’t read it. If you don’t like what you do read and do reply, at least try a rebuttal of the article.

One last Question: Are you a member of any organization. And or any of your rent-a-crew who think you're 'great' members of the same organization?

I do not belong to any organisation. I have no religion to cloud my mind and I am not a member of any political party.

Now, do not expect another reply from me to you if all you are going to do is add straw man arguments and act like a child by name calling.

PS

I was just about to post my reply when I noticed that seanx threw another pointless argument into this thread. I know I said I would not respond but I will this one time because I had not posted my reply.

I would advise anyone reading this to go to the original thread that he took cheebs quote from and read the post in full and see that I have addressed cheeb (not on that quote as of yet but I intend to once he replies to my comments) and am still waiting for his reply. (He was another one who changed the topic and started calling me all kinds of names) I am not going to let anyone else distract me from the original topic within the post if they cannot address my comments in an appropriate way by staying on topic. It is pointless and distracting for the reader.

Here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16357) is the thread where seanx has taken cheebs quote.

You cannot play your silly mind games with me seanx, I will always rise above such people as yourself and find it is better to ignore you than to engage you with senseless argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I am wise to your tactics seanx. :)

[seanx]

Sod what news papers were allowed free speech in Nazi Germany. It was probably dominated by zionists anyway, as it is in the West today. It is all straw man argument and distracting from the original content of the post

So that's a no then. There were no independent newspapers in Nazi
Germnay.



Seanx, you are adding nothing of substance to this thread, all you seem to be doing is calling me and others who seem to agree with me, names and making silly accusations without addressing the facts of the original post.

I am not smearing you. You just won't ANSWER ANY of the Questions.

You have come to the Dave Icke site.

I have told you how dave icke sees the situation. It is very CLEAR
in all his books. Couldn't be any clearer.

You can't answer this - so you go into a long, meaningless
rant about NOTHING. ( who does that remind you of?)

Tell me again - why have you come here - when everyting that
you are trying to suggest - hatred and blame on group of people
is repungant to everything dave Icke talks about.

Also please tell me why the nazis had no problem trying to killing
potentially millions of innocent Londoners - but you still want us to
believe they couldn't do the same to the jews, who like you -
they believed - were behind everything evil?

Is there some difference between the londoners and the jews.
Maybe they hated the Brits more.

[paganus]

didnt the 'allies' kill innocent civillians? dresden...hiroshima...nagasaki et al?

[phantom]

Hi paganus

didnt the 'allies' kill innocent civillians? dresden...hiroshima...nagasaki et al?

Yes, and let's not forget the million or so people who were starved to death in Eisenhower death camps after the war.

If you have been following this thread paganus, you may be interested in reading my reply to cheebs well thought out question regarding Nuremberg document NI-9912, or as it was known, DIRECTIVES FOR THE USE OF PRUSSIC ACID (ZYKLON) FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF VERMIN (DISINFESTATION) here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225497&postcount=46)

[steevo]

Phantom, I have no idea how many Jews died in WW2 and neither do you. You can only guess because of the misinformation that has been created over the last 60+ years. You may have read lots of books on this subject but you can't ever know for sure. As I said I know how the Illuminati works and the "historians" who work for them and the "scientists" who also work for them so I know that they will have made stories up to fit their agenda, I have no idea REALLY what is true or false but I have my thoughts on it but dont think it will move us forward in our fight against the NWO in speculating TOO MUCH on what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have happened in WW2. You obviously think it will help in some way by discussing this stuff constantly but IMO I dont see how it could. :rolleyes:

The victors of WW2 write the history books, we all know that and we need to wake up the sheeple to how it all REALLY works. We need to do the same sort of work as David Icke and spread the information that we have found out and spread it and wake EVERYONE up. YOU can permanently dwell on your hero Adolf Hitler if you want :rolleyes:

Why dont you move FORWARD and learn from the mistakes of past generations instead of hero worshipping Hitler, Oh I forgot, it's because you are "being realistic" and I'm guessing that you need to FOLLOW a leader (a dead one at that) ?

I think we both agree that the Illuminati has to be disbanded, yes ? You have said that you think that the actions of Hitler was RIGHT, so does that mean that you think that WE now need a NEW LEADER who would continue where Hitler left off and go down a similar path that he went down ?

You have your right to free speech Phantom so you can continue to say WHATEVER YOU WANT on here (and in public maybe). If free speech was banned then we ALL lose our voices and cannot speak out against the illuminati (we dont have a voice on the mainstream media anyway though) but the free speech thing is very dangerous because it can lead to people dying. Look at the death of an Asian teenager at Dewsbury Train station a week ago, racially motivated. Racist attacks have gone up a massive amount since 911 because the mainstream media has been persecuting the muslims EVERY SINGLE DAY for over 6 years. That is the power of free speech. So Phantom, please THINK before you speak and then maybe there will NOT be an EXCUSE for TPTB to bring in new laws to stop free speech. I mean, do you WANT to continue to have free speech ?

[seanx]

Paganus

didnt the 'allies' kill innocent civillians? dresden...hiroshima...nagasaki et al?
__________________

Yes, of course they did.

Brutal slaughter.

Only difference is the Brits don't deny it - or try to pretend that
it never happened.

[zarah]

I think some members, with all due respect, are steering away from the point of the thread and moving to degrogatory statements and slurs on other members.

Seanx, I haven't read Phantom denying that Jewish people died and were treated appallingly in WW2, rather that hes making the the valid and factual point that history, as is recorded, isn't altogether true. I'm not sure why, rather than attack his points, you've decided to attack him, but it's not a debating style I'm comfortable with...not that you should have to make me comfortable or anything :p It just seems a lil puerile, is all.

[zarah]

Why dont you move FORWARD and learn from the mistakes of past generations instead of hero worshipping Hitler, Oh I forgot, it's because you are "being realistic" and I'm guessing that you need to FOLLOW a leader (a dead one at that) ?



The second world war resulted in an illegal state being created for one social group, slap bang in the middle of another country, without the population of that country being in any way consulted. That country has been horribly occupied for the last 60 years. How can we learn any lessons from a history which is pertaintly false?

[seanx]

Phantom wrote:
Yes, and let's not forget the million or so people who were starved to death in Eisenhower death camps after the war.

If you have been following this thread paganus, you may be interested in reading my reply to cheebs well thought out question regarding Nuremberg document NI-9912, or as it was known, DIRECTIVES FOR THE USE OF PRUSSIC ACID (ZYKLON) FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF VERMIN (DISINFESTATION) here

Still no response to what Dave is fed up repeating again and again.

And this is not a little matter,

This is the heart - the CORE - of what Icke is saying.

The problem is not with people.

It is nothing to do with hating or blaming one people.

It is to WAKE up.

To see how the illuminati rule. To see the games they play.

They set up most of these religions - and virtually all the wars
to keep people fighting among themselves and vibrating at the rate
they want.

Hitler was just a violent, egomaniac sadistic psychopath who they
swept into power.

Israel and the jews - they mean nothing to the illuminati - just
more pawns to create wars and divisions with.

Pawns to help create another 'story' that will 'excite' people and
get spitting and vomiting more and more of the hatread and fear
they are addicted to and need to survive .

In africa, they used Rwnada - to create the drug-infected
bloodbath they need to feast on.

Could have been any country in Africa- but they sensed the
tensions and hatred there between the various tribes - throw in a
few of their techniques to further divide - and hey presto - it's like
a junkie finding a lorryload of heroin.

Im sorry for your obsession with the Jews- but they are nothing
special.

Just pawns in a bigger game.

[steevo]

The second world war resulted in an illegal state being created for one social group, slap bang in the middle of another country, without the population of that country being in any way consulted. That country has been horribly occupied for the last 60 years. How can we learn any lessons from a history which is pertaintly false?

Yes it IS false BUT WE know it is false. So...WE need to wake people up by discussing it with the sheeple (just like Ickey does), but we need to do it in a way that does not alienate us or anyone else, we should be careful NOT to point the finger of blame at the brainwashed sheeple who live in Israel.

[seanx]

Zarah wrote:

I think some members, with all due respect, are steering away from the point of the thread and moving to degrogatory statements and slurs on other members.

Seanx, I haven't read Phantom denying that Jewish people died and were treated appallingly in WW2, rather that hes making the the valid and factual point that history, as is recorded, isn't altogether true. I'm not sure why, rather than attack his points, you've decided to attack him, but it's not a debating style I'm comfortable with...not that you should have to make me comfortable or anything It just seems a lil puerile, is all.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but you regard it as an attack or 'puerile' if I tell Mr
Phantom what dave icke has written about this topic.

Amazing.

Would you like us all to shut up and let Mr Phantom free
reign to spread hatred towards one group of people.

let me repeat it again for you - so that any new members here
don't think we are all card-carrying nazis.


Icke is not talking about the Jewish people - or the Americans
OR whatever race or religion you are fixated on.

He is talking about:

A state of mind, a cold, soulless, almost reptilian state of
consciousness that runs through the veins of the
Illuminati as they try to impose this soulless, mechanical
control over everybody.

This control is not American, British, Russian or Jewish.

It is a state of being.

A frequency that has been separated from its
Primal source and finds its resonance in the DNA of the families of
the illuminati.

And that illuminati can be of any nationality or religion.

In fact, you'll find them in every religion and nationality -
and their loyalty is to The Agenda - and nothing else.


Steevo wrote:
Yes it IS false BUT WE know it is false. So...WE need to wake people up by discussing it with the sheeple (just like Ickey does), but we need to do it in a way that does not alienate us or anyone else, we should be careful NOT to point the finger of blame at the brainwashed sheeple who live in Israel.

Excellent post.

You see these issues are discussed here- and they should
be discussed.

But they should be discussed with reason and not used to
incite hate towards one community.

And being Irish working in london in the late eighties- when the
IRA bombing campaign was going on - I saw how easy it was for
a few ignorant people to stir up real hate against a minority
community with his false allegations that 'all Irish were murdering
bastards'.

Thousands of innocent irish people were knifed, stabbed and
in a lot of cases killed in cities all over the Uk during those days.

[zarah]

Seanx,

Actually, I regard attacking someone's character as puerile, not stating anything about what Icke has or hasn't written about the subject. You seem to question both Phantom's rationale and judgement rather than the facts he's written. If you don't see your tone as attacking that's your call, I'm not here to fight anyone's battle, people seem to fair pretty well on their own :p


Steevo,

Good and valid point. The problem I have with that line of thought is that while we sit in our comfy lounges figuring out ways to wake people up, Palestinians are living a terrible existance.

[phantom]

Hi zarah

Actually, I regard attacking someone's character as puerile, not stating anything about what Icke has or hasn't written about the subject. You seem to question both Phantom's rationale and judgement rather than the facts he's written. If you don't see your tone as attacking that's your call, I'm not here to fight anyone's battle, people seem to fair pretty well on their own

I am used to the likes of seanx attacking me. It seems to be the norm for such people who cannot refute what I post. It is a shame really because I am sure if he put his mind to it he could debate me in a reasonable and well thought out manner. :)

The problem I have with that line of thought is that while we sit in our comfy lounges figuring out ways to wake people up, Palestinians are living a terrible existance.

Well Said!

[pedsi]

I've read all of this thread and at no time have I thought that phantom is in any way promoting hatred towards jews or anyone else for that matter,the way I see it he is offering alternative information and views that contradict the official version of events....Do you have to be a nazi or a jew hater to question such matters?..I dont think so!
I have had my doubts about the official story for some time now along with all the other bullshit we are expected to believe(911 etc) and I am neither.

We know the elite families stretch across many races and religions so I dont see how questioning the holocaust can be interprited as blaming jewish people for everything.....maybe certain individuals have pre concieved ideas about people who ask such questions.

[steevo]

The problem I have with that line of thought is that while we sit in our comfy lounges figuring out ways to wake people up, Palestinians are living a terrible existance.

The same goes for Iraq. We have to wake people up BIG TIME. That is the only way forward as far as I can see :(

Well Said!

Well that goes for you too Phantom. Your way of waking people up by saying that the Jews are to blame devides people and is just gonna make it worse IMO. Waking people up is the answer and I mean FULLY waking them with the information that would be necessary to do that, I will let you decide what that info is.

[steevo]

I've read all of this thread and at no time have I thought that phantom is in any way promoting hatred towards jews or anyone else for that matter,the way I see it he is offering alternative information and views that contradict the official version of events....Do you have to be a nazi or a jew hater to question such matters?..I dont think so!
I have had my doubts about the official story for some time now along with all the other bullshit we are expected to believe(911 etc) and I am neither.

We know the elite families stretch across many races and religions so I dont see how questioning the holocaust can be interprited as blaming jewish people for everything.....maybe certain individuals have pre concieved ideas about people who ask such questions.

Read phantoms other threads.

[seanx]

Phantom wrote

I am used to the likes of seanx attacking me. It seems to be the norm for such people who cannot refute what I post. It is a shame really because I am sure if he put his mind to it he could debate me in a reasonable and well thought out manner

I'm sorry, sir, but since this is the dave Icke forum, I'm still waiting
for you to debate with me on what Icke has written on this
subject.

It has been made quite clear.

I'm still waiting............

[damagedbrainn]

[B]I was going to stick this post elsewhere but I think it is appropriate here. If a mod thinks it should be moved to another board, be my guest and move it

My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners

By Guiseppe Furioso

The Holocaust consists of three basic elements:

1. Approximately 6 million Jews were deliberately killed.

2. These killings were part of a state-sponsored program on the part of the Third Reich whose ultimate goal was the total eradication of the Jewish people.

3. The bulk of these murders took place in special camps where the principal mechanism of execution was the homocidal gas chamber that utilized Zyclon B, a commercial pesticide whose active ingredient was hydrogen cyanide.

This is getting old.

About 40 million civilians died during the course of WW2. About 5-6 million of them were Jews, only about half of those died in camps, while the other half died in the manner in which you speak....they were killed in their homes, on the street, and starved in ghettos. About 12 million people in all died in the camps, only about a fourth of them were Jewish. They didn't all die in gas chambers, but through more conventional forms of execution as well as good ole fashioned PWO-camp styled malnutrition, dehydration, and disease. More chinese civilians were killed at the hands of the Japanese than Jews. And more Soviet POW's were killed in camps than any other one group.

I didn't get that information from any conspiracy site, or any book professing super secret information. Those are actually the official statistics agreed upon by the majority of historians.

You can't claim to discredit the "official story" when you obviously don't even know what the official story is. The crap you're trying to pass off as the "official line" are lies told by Neo-Nazi groups and Holocaust deniers to make their stupid, far-fetched claims sound more credible....It's a classic strawman tactic.

For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.

[steevo]

The same goes for Iraq. We have to wake people up BIG TIME. That is the only way forward as far as I can see :(

Well that goes for you too Phantom. Your way of waking people up by saying that the Jews are to blame devides people and is just gonna make it worse IMO. Waking people up is the answer and I mean FULLY waking them with the information that would be necessary to do that, I will let you decide what that info is.

Phantom, have you got any suggestions how we can sort the Palestinian and Iraq problems out ? Do you think that the "Jews" should be exposed and that will sort the problem out ? Or do you think we should do something else ?

Can I just ask you what you think is going on in the world with regards Jews, how do they run the world ? I mean, in your opinion, is there a network of brainwashed Jewish sheeple who are similar to the Freemasons, and by that I mean do they look after each other by making sure they use their influence in EVERY walk of life to make sure they get the best jobs and the best contracts ? This is a serious question that I would like your opinion on as we need to get the bottom of this once and for all. Please give me YOUR opinions of what you think is ghoing on with the brainwashed Jewish sheeple and not links to other websites or stuff that you have copied and pasted. Thanks.

[zarah]

This is getting old.

About 40 million civilians died during the course of WW2. About 5-6 million of them were Jews, only about half of those died in camps, while the other half died in the manner in which you speak....they were killed in their homes, on the street, and starved in ghettos. About 12 million people in all died in the camps, only about a fourth of them were Jewish. They didn't all die in gas chambers, but through more conventional forms of execution as well as good ole fashioned PWO-camp styled malnutrition, dehydration, and disease. More chinese civilians were killed at the hands of the Japanese than Jews. And more Soviet POW's were killed in camps than any other one group.

I didn't get that information from any conspiracy site, or any book professing super secret information. Those are actually the official statistics agreed upon by the majority of historians.

You can't claim to discredit the "official story" when you obviously don't even know what the official story is. The crap you're trying to pass off as the "official line" are lies told by Neo-Nazi groups and Holocaust deniers to make their stupid, far-fetched claims sound more credible....It's a classic strawman tactic.

For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.

Ive read lots and lots of history books, as I'm sure you have, and as such we both know that the figures on how many people died and how they died varies hugely depending on the source. I think it's right that we question all official strories that tptb dictate we should believe, because normally they turn out to be just that -stories and mass propaganda on a grand scale.

You state that 'Holocaust deniers' make 'stupid, far -fetched claims', can you cite a few for me? And what exactly makes a 'holocaust denier'?

I find it strange that you use a classic strawman tactic while accusing others of doing the same.

[zarah]

The same goes for Iraq. We have to wake people up BIG TIME. That is the only way forward as far as I can see :(



Well that goes for you too Phantom. Your way of waking people up by saying that the Jews are to blame devides people and is just gonna make it worse IMO. Waking people up is the answer and I mean FULLY waking them with the information that would be necessary to do that, I will let you decide what that info is.

I'm so with you on waking people up about Iraq, I just feel we should be a lil more proactive at helping people who are having trouble helping themselves while we're at it.

[phantom]

Hi pedsi

I've read all of this thread and at no time have I thought that phantom is in any way promoting hatred towards jews or anyone else for that matter,the way I see it he is offering alternative information and views that contradict the official version of events....Do you have to be a nazi or a jew hater to question such matters?..I dont think so!

Thank You pedsi! It is always good to hear from someone with an open mind, who can read what I am saying and see that I am not promoting hatred towards the jewish people in my posts. I have had to make that clear on several occasions because some here seem to think otherwsie. All I am trying to do is offer people an alternative to what they were indoctrinated with growing up.

I have had my doubts about the official story for some time now along with all the other bullshit we are expected to believe (911 etc) and I am neither.

And I believe you but you will no doubt be linked to me now as being some kind of anti-Semite or as seanx puts it, one of my "rent-a -crew". :eek:

We know the elite families stretch across many races and religions so I dont see how questioning the holocaust can be interprited as blaming jewish people for everything.....maybe certain individuals have pre concieved ideas about people who ask such questions.

You just hit the nail on the head pedsi. "certain individuals have pre concieved ideas about people who ask such questions".

[phantom]

steevo

The same goes for Iraq. We have to wake people up BIG TIME. That is the only way forward as far as I can see.

Well that goes for you too Phantom. Your way of waking people up by saying that the Jews are to blame devides people and is just gonna make it worse IMO. Waking people up is the answer and I mean FULLY waking them with the information that would be necessary to do that, I will let you decide what that info is.

Steevo, you are at it again and are being silly. You have not read what I have said to you. You keep saying I am blaming the jews instead of saying I am blaming zionist jews. STOP IT!

I was on the 2003 anti war march in London protesting against the illegal invasion of Iraq. I stood tall with the millions who were there and was photographed by several police/government agents along with my wife and THREE CHILDREN. (my eldest couldn't make it with my grandchildren)

STOP telling me how to get my message across, you are sounding pathetic.

You know nothing about me other than what you see me posting about the holocaust. I have done so much in trying to wake people up. I have suffered the torment of being called mad and have lost several friends because of my awakening. Just because I no longer choose to talk about what I have learnt over the years regarding the secret societies and so on does not mean I am not doing my part in waking people up. I am an old hand in this fight but I have chosen to fight it in my own way.

[phantom]

Hi damagedbrainn

This is getting old.

About 40 million civilians died during the course of WW2. About 5-6 million of them were Jews, only about half of those died in camps, while the other half died in the manner in which you speak....they were killed in their homes, on the street, and starved in ghettos

So according to you damagedbrainn, three million jews died in the camps while another two to three million were killed in their homes, on the street and starved to death in the ghettos. Do you have any sources for this information or are you just making it up in you head?

About 12 million people in all died in the camps, only about a fourth of them were Jewish. They didn't all die in gas chambers, but through more conventional forms of execution as well as good ole fashioned PWO-camp styled malnutrition, dehydration, and disease.

I don't know where you got the twelve million figure from and would be interested to read your sources.

The people in the camps were dying from disease as early as 1941 if not before that and the Nazis were doing their best to stem the spread of disease. To suggest that the Nazis were deliberately starving prisoners to death just does not make sense. Again, what are your sources for this information? References please! And how many people do you believe died in the genocidal gas chambers?

More chinese civilians were killed at the hands of the Japanese than Jews. And more Soviet POW's were killed in camps than any other one group.

I am not disputing that.

I didn't get that information from any conspiracy site, or any book professing super secret information. Those are actually the official statistics agreed upon by the majority of historians

Then you should be able to give me your sources.

You can't claim to discredit the "official story" when you obviously don't even know what the official story is.

Oh I see but you can quote "official statistics from the majority of historians" as fact who supposedly know the "official story". Hmmmmmm! sources please!

The crap you're trying to pass off as the "official line" are lies told by Neo-Nazi groups and Holocaust deniers to make their stupid, far-fetched claims sound more credible....It's a classic strawman tactic.

Who said that what I am saying comes from the "official line"? You and I both know what happens to historians who share a different view to the so called holocaust historians don't we.

For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.

There is no need for that language damagedbrainn. I have read many a book on history. Just because it wasn't one that you read doesn't mean I am wrong in what I say. Again, you and I both know what happens to historians who reveal an alternative to the "official" holocaust view don't we. Their lives get ruined by the power of the zionist jews and they normally end up in jail of fined a hefty sum and are told to never repeat what they have found out to be the truth.

If you are so cock sure of yourself damagedbrainn, debate me on the holocaust. You can set the structure of the debate and I will oblige you as long as we do it in a proper manner.

[damagedbrainn]

[COLOR="Purple"]Ive read lots and lots of history books, as I'm sure you have, and as such we both know that the figures on how many people died and how they died varies hugely depending on the source.

No, it doesn't. The majority agree upon the statistics I've quoted, and those are generally viewed as the most reliable. There are a few historians who claim it was less, a few who claim it was more; however the opinions of a few do not qualify something as the "official story". An "official story" is something you would find in a book of general history or an encyclopedia, not a book of editorial opinion with original "research" written by a single author.

I think it's right that we question all official strories that tptb dictate we should believe, because normally they turn out to be just that -stories and mass propaganda on a grand scale.

True. In fact, people have always done that, and often what was once considered "controversial" ends up becoming "official" once it is found to stand up to scrutiny. That's typically how historical research is done; however, before you can debunk "official claims", you first have to have a firm grasp of what those official claims are. And holocaust denial and those who believe in it fail miserably in that regard. It's literally the dumbest conspiracy theory of all time, and in my opinion, only those with a strong prejudice against Jews can possibly believe it....I mean, considering all the witnesses on record you'd have to believe that Jews are just liars by nature or that they're all in on it and are therefore deceptive by nature.

If you think I'm wrong, then you need to pay closer attention to the various other things that Holocaust deniers have to say about Jews. Ask Phantom if he also believes that Jews run the world or that they sacrifice gentile children and celebrate the death of Jesus. He'll either answer "yes" or dodge the question entirely.

You state that 'Holocaust deniers' make 'stupid, far -fetched claims', can you cite a few for me? And what exactly makes a 'holocaust denier'?

"Holocaust denier": Someone who claims that the Holocaust didn't happen. I mean, DUH.

I find it strange that you use a classic strawman tactic while accusing others of doing the same.

And the reason you find it strange is probably because you don't understand what "strawman" means. Me saying that something is far-fetched and stupid is not a "strawman", but an opinion. A "strawman" is when you twist what someone said, or what is written in a book, and make significant changes to it in order to make it easier to discredit. A good example would be taking the official story that 5-6 million Jews died out of 40 million civilians and that about 3 million Jews died in camps out of 12 million, twisting it, and then stating that the "official story" claims that 6 million Jews died in concentration camps mostly in gas chambers and NO ONE ELSE but Jews!

[damagedbrainn]

Hi damagedbrainn



So according to you damagedbrainn, three million jews died in the camps while another two to three million were killed in their homes, on the street and starved to death in the ghettos. Do you have any sources for this information or are you just making it up in you head?



I don't know where you got the twelve million figure from and would be interested to read your sources.

The people in the camps were dying from disease as early as 1941 if not before that and the Nazis were doing their best to stem the spread of disease. To suggest that the Nazis were deliberately starving prisoners to death just does not make sense. Again, what are your sources for this information? References please! And how many people do you believe died in the genocidal gas chambers?



I am not disputing that.



Then you should be able to give me your sources.



Oh I see but you can quote "official statistics from the majority of historians" as fact who supposedly know the "official story". Hmmmmmm! sources please!



Who said that what I am saying comes from the "official line"? You and I both know what happens to historians who share a different view to the so called holocaust historians don't we.



There is no need for that language damagedbrainn. I have read many a book on history. Just because it wasn't one that you read doesn't mean I am wrong in what I say. Again, you and I both know what happens to historians who reveal an alternative to the "official" holocaust view don't we. Their lives get ruined by the power of the zionist jews and they normally end up in jail of fined a hefty sum and are told to never repeat what they have found out to be the truth.

If you are so cock sure of yourself damagedbrainn, debate me on the holocaust. You can set the structure of the debate and I will oblige you as long as we do it in a proper manner.

Rather than succumb to your lazy ignorance and do your homework for you, I would like to point out to you and everyone else reading a very obvious fact about you and what you've said....it's so obvious that most won't even notice it unless it's pointed out to them.

That fact is: You're not disputing the claim of 40 million civilian deaths, or the claim of 7 million Chinese deaths, or 10 million Soviet deaths; nor are you asking for any sources to verify those statistics. The statistics concerning the Jews are the ONLY ones you seem to question. Why?

[phantom]

Hi steevo

Phantom, have you got any suggestions how we can sort the Palestinian and Iraq problems out ?

Yes! Unite with jews against zionsim.

Do you think that the "Jews" should be exposed and that will sort the problem out ? Or do you think we should do something else ?

ibidem

Can I just ask you what you think is going on in the world with regards Jews, how do they run the world ? I mean, in your opinion, is there a network of brainwashed Jewish sheeple who are similar to the Freemasons, and by that I mean do they look after each other by making sure they use their influence in EVERY walk of life to make sure they get the best jobs and the best contracts ?

Forget the freemasons steevo. I know several who have no idea what is going on. And forget the sheeple terminology in this case because it does not apply here. The list I could post to show you and others the power of the zionist jews would knock your socks off so to speak and this is not the thread to post it on. If you want, I will take the time and put together a list of monopolies that are controlled by zionist jews.

This is a serious question that I would like your opinion on as we need to get the bottom of this once and for all. Please give me YOUR opinions of what you think is ghoing on with the brainwashed Jewish sheeple and not links to other websites or stuff that you have copied and pasted. Thanks.

I am not sure I understand the question steevo. If it has nothing to do with the holocaust, PM me with a clearer questions and I will gladly answer it to the best of my knowledge.

[seanx]

Mr. Phantom , you have answered everyone else's questions -
but not the points I have made to you in regard to what dave Icke
has written on this.

If you live in Britian, you'll know how important this is - as the
British media has spent the last ten years trying to discredit Icke by
linking him to this anti-jewish, the holocaust-is-a- myth stuff.

I'm getting fed up but here it is again.

Maybe you could allow yourself to consider it. Either you or your
friend 'zarah'



Icke is not talking about the Jewish people - or the Americans
OR whatever race or religion you are fixated on.

He is talking about:

A state of mind, a cold, soulless, almost reptilian state of
consciousness that runs through the veins of the
Illuminati as they try to impose this soulless, mechanical
control over everybody.

This control is not American, British, Russian or Jewish.

It is a state of being.

A frequency that has been separated from its
Primal source and finds its resonance in the DNA of the families of
the illuminati.

And that illuminati can be of any nationality or religion.

In fact, you'll find them in every religion and nationality -
and their loyalty is to The Agenda - and nothing else.

And then there is this simple question:

Here it is again:

The Russians murdered millions of their
own citizens under Stalin.

The Chinese murdered millions of their citizens under Mao.

The British let millions of irish starve to a horrible death
as they shipped the food out of Ireland to feed their armies.

The Americans murdered and butchered over 200,000 innocent
people alone in the middle east...

But Mr Phantom wants to believe that the Nazis wouldn't be capable of
doing such a terrible thing to their enemies - the Jews.

That it is all lies. That most of them died of malnutrition or from cutting themselves shaving!

These were the same nazis who were dropping bombs down every
single night on the innocent people of London.

Funny- they had no moral problem potentially killing millions of
Londoners - but not the jews that they hated.





But reading braindamaged, he has an even better question:


That fact is: You're not disputing the claim of 40 million civilian deaths, or the claim of 7 million Chinese deaths, or 10 million Soviet deaths; nor are you asking for any sources to verify those statistics. The statistics concerning the Jews are the ONLY ones you seem to question. Why?

This is not an attack on you - but on your conditioned beliefs.

You seems a very well-educated, intelligent man- maybe a part of you
decided to come here to get a different view on your beliefs.

[damagedbrainn]

It's not a coincidence that everyone who believes that the holocaust didn't happen also believe that Jews are the ones who truly run the world and always have. In fact, that's the only motive behind holocaust denial.

The existence of Jewish persecution, particularly in regard to the extreme form of the Holocaust, completely contradicts and discredits the possibility and theory that Jews control everything. Thus, the only way that they can continue to cling to this ignorant belief is to deny that any such persecution ever occurred. (Though some also try to claim that the persecution was justified, but I haven't seen that yet in this particular thread.)

[phantom]

Hi damagedbrainn

Rather than succumb to your lazy ignorance and do your homework for you, I would like to point out to you and everyone else reading a very obvious fact about you and what you've said....it's so obvious that most won't even notice it unless it's pointed out to them.

That fact is: You're not disputing the claim of 40 million civilian deaths, or the claim of 7 million Chinese deaths, or 10 million Soviet deaths; nor are you asking for any sources to verify those statistics. The statistics concerning the Jews are the ONLY ones you seem to question. Why?

Ok damagedbrainn, don't debate me then. To be honest, I didn't think you would take up the challenge. (TYPICAL) Maybe someone who believes they know the truth about the holocaust will take me up on my offer for a fair and balanced debate.

If you want to talk about to the amount of deaths during WWII or the amount of deaths in Chinese camps or the Christians that were slaughtered by the zionist Bulshavic Russians before WWII, start a new thread about it and I will gladly join in.

[phantom]

It's not a coincidence that everyone who believes that the holocaust didn't happen also believe that Jews are the ones who truly run the world and always have. In fact, that's the only motive behind holocaust denial.

Rubbish! And I will prove it to you if you have the balls to debate me on the holocust.

The existence of Jewish persecution, particularly in regard to the extreme form of the Holocaust, completely contradicts and discredits the possibility and theory that Jews control everything. Thus, the only way that they can continue to cling to this ignorant belief is to deny that any such persecution ever occurred. (Though some also try to claim that the persecution was justified, but I haven't seen that yet in this particular thread.)

Rubbish! And I will prove it to you if you have the balls to debate me on the holocust.

[seanx]

Still no response to Icke's view on this?

Maybe your silence is better than any answer.

Good night, Mr. Phantom and your merry army.

And let's hope all little jewish children can have a quiet
night's sleep despite all the hate that surrounds them.

And yet, it's funny.

Look at any child - beyond the labels - and they ARE ALL
THE SAME.

[zarah]

No, it doesn't. The majority agree upon the statistics I've quoted, and those are generally viewed as the most reliable. There are a few historians who claim it was less, a few who claim it was more; however the opinions of a few do not qualify something as the "official story". An "official story" is something you would find in a book of general history or an encyclopedia, not a book of editorial opinion with original "research" written by a single author.

Which majority? The number of Jewish people who died as a direct result of WW2 varies from 600,000 to 6 million. The World Centre of Comtempory Jewish Documentation states that 1.5 million in total died, which is less than the 2 million German civilians were were killed in Allied attacks.


And holocaust denial and those who believe in it fail miserably in that regard. It's literally the dumbest conspiracy theory of all time, and in my opinion, only those with a strong prejudice against Jews can possibly believe it....I mean, considering all the witnesses on record you'd have to believe that Jews are just liars by nature or that they're all in on it and are therefore deceptive by nature.

So you accuse anyone who disputes the holocaust as it's recorded of having a strong predjudice against Jews? That's an extremely weak argument on so many levels. As I'm sure you're aware.

If you think I'm wrong, then you need to pay closer attention to the various other things that Holocaust deniers have to say about Jews. Ask Phantom if he also believes that Jews run the world or that they sacrifice gentile children and celebrate the death of Jesus. He'll either answer "yes" or dodge the question entirely.

I don't for one second think that the holocaust happened as it was recorded and I think no more or no less of Jewish people that I do of anyone else. Rather than just make sweeping statements of all people who question the official story, isn't it important that we judge people individually? Apparently not.



"Holocaust denier": Someone who claims that the Holocaust didn't happen. I mean, DUH.

I don't want to appear pedantic, but the literal term of 'holocaust' is mass death by fire, which obviously didn't happen, now did it? Neither did 6 million Jews die as a result of WW2. Neither is there any evidence that people were murdered in gas chambers. Once one begins to question and is able to refute parts of an official story, no matter what that story is, it invites deeper investigation.


And the reason you find it strange is probably because you don't understand what "strawman" means. Me saying that something is far-fetched and stupid is not a "strawman", but an opinion. A "strawman" is when you twist what someone said, or what is written in a book, and make significant changes to it in order to make it easier to discredit. A good example would be taking the official story that 5-6 million Jews died out of 40 million civilians and that about 3 million Jews died in camps out of 12 million, twisting it, and then stating that the "official story" claims that 6 million Jews died in concentration camps mostly in gas chambers and NO ONE ELSE but Jews!

Now who's being a pedant? A straw man argument is when one employs a weak standpoint, which is easily refuted. For example, your bandying around figures and numbers as factual which we both know are quite unsubstatiated.

[amadeus]

[...]In fact, people have always done that, and often what was once considered "controversial" ends up becoming "official" once it is found to stand up to scrutiny. That's typically how historical research is done; however, before you can debunk "official claims", you first have to have a firm grasp of what those official claims are. And holocaust denial and those who believe in it fail miserably in that regard. It's literally the dumbest conspiracy theory of all time, and in my opinion, only those with a strong prejudice against Jews can possibly believe it....I mean, considering all the witnesses on record you'd have to believe that Jews are just liars by nature or that they're all in on it and are therefore deceptive by nature.


Nomen est omen! :D

[zarah]

Still no response to Icke's view on this?

Maybe your silence is better than any answer.

Good night, Mr. Phantom and your merry army.

And let's hope all little jewish children can have a quiet
night's sleep despite all the hate that surrounds them.

And yet, it's funny.

Look at any child - beyond the labels - and they ARE ALL
THE SAME.

I've prolly missed something, I normally do..but do we have to agree with everything Icke tells us? Are we not entitled to form our own opinions, too?

I hope all of the Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Athiest et al children have a quiet night's sleep despite all of the hate that surrounds them.

You imply that Phantom and others who agree with his posts have motives which are anti-Jewish, which is exactly the argument which is given by tptb whenever the holocaust is questioned. Funny that.

[sunyatta60]

Hi sunyatta60

You are so right!



Real Torah jews HATE zionism and are against the state of israels creation. I believe and maybe Real Torah jews believe, zionism is the root cause of the hatred that is shown today by many ignorant people throughout the world towards the jews.

Unless we can stop zionism together, it will lead to the persecution of the jews again as it has done in the past.

That is why I think it is really important that people like you and me turn around in forums like this and Say OUTLOUD IT IS NOT THE JEWS FAULT.
They have as a group been infiltrated by a bunch of scheming imposters who really are SATANIST disguised as Zionist. Any real Jew who speaks out against Zionism is immediately called a Self Hater. The Satanist want hate, war and division between people. Yet True Torah loving Jews have lived in peaceful co-existence with Muslims and others for thousands of years.
I think the fact that Herzl was a secular jew is important because according to those Jews who abide by their holy scripture the land of Israel is not meant to be occupied until the Messiah shows up.

[sunyatta60]

IMO All it takes to sort this BS out is for normal Jews (like everyone else) to wake up.

Mate you must have missed the link I gave on this thread here it is again True Torah Loving Jews are awake and they are being attacked by those Nazi IDF prats. Instead of the Anti Semites shouting about them and attacking them they should be standing shoulder to shoulder with them and speaking out against the Zionist/Satanist who are causing all of the problems world wide.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
Martin Niemoellar

[lyliade]

This is getting old.

About 40 million civilians died during the course of WW2. About 5-6 million of them were Jews, only about half of those died in camps, while the other half died in the manner in which you speak....they were killed in their homes, on the street, and starved in ghettos. About 12 million people in all died in the camps, only about a fourth of them were Jewish. They didn't all die in gas chambers, but through more conventional forms of execution as well as good ole fashioned PWO-camp styled malnutrition, dehydration, and disease. More chinese civilians were killed at the hands of the Japanese than Jews. And more Soviet POW's were killed in camps than any other one group.

I didn't get that information from any conspiracy site, or any book professing super secret information. Those are actually the official statistics agreed upon by the majority of historians.

You can't claim to discredit the "official story" when you obviously don't even know what the official story is. The crap you're trying to pass off as the "official line" are lies told by Neo-Nazi groups and Holocaust deniers to make their stupid, far-fetched claims sound more credible....It's a classic strawman tactic.

For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.

are you a blind to believe everything it's told you?? damn open your eyes,watch Zeitgeist.We have been lied for decades,if not centuries.I was like you,i belived everything we were told but then one day i woke up and realize that they (government,institutions,medecine,science...) were lying deeply to us!

Are they so different from other people? No,so why always speak about these bunch of criminals disguise as angel? there was 50 million people who died in the war that's an important number,nothing else.Camps everyone went there and died of typhus or starvation.

Einsteinhoax.com ,anne frank is a hoax,gas chamber is a hoax as well everything from these people are a hoax and still people believe bullshit from them,how come? they just plagiarize everything,copy and paste if you want.

WTF should i care about them,if they don't give a damn about us.It's like they are the only who suffered or are the most intelligent on earth.They want to destroy us the white and use black,gays and stuff to mix the races and destroy everything is "good".They are ugly as hell,i think icke said they are the reptilians,well i think so.


Read also the poisonous mushroom and you'll know more about them.The german did this and that but what about Amercian,russian,polish,hungarish,yougoslavian.I'm sick of watching,hearing stuff about the stuff germans did to them or whatever race,they were good people who followed a dictator(crazy one)no body talk much about the german who suffred and help jews in the ww2.Movies talk always about Amercians who save the world from the ennemy,which ennemy,it's them the zionit shit.They stole a lot from german too during and after the war.They are the big ennemy too watch closely.

[adimon]

The very existence of more than a million survivors even today, some sixty years later, contradicts one of the basic components of the Holocaust, i.e., that the Germans had a policy to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on.

No it doesn't. It just means that they hadn't gotten around to it by the time the camps ceased functioning.

With regard to the Holocaust, the silence of these “conoscenti” is deafening!

What about the testimony of the surviving Germans who were involved with perpetrating the Shoah who have gone on record to describe in detail what they did?

Wouldn’t a bullet on the spot have appealed to the legendary German sense of efficiency?

Many were executed this way, by being lined up and shot. In terms of efficiency, it's actually more efficient to remove PWs from the theater of conflict, regardless of whether you intend to kill them or not. The Nazis knew this, and although many were killed before arriving at the camps, this is where the majority were killed.

Why after sixty years have historians not been able to come up with a single German document that points to a Holocaust?

Again, you make no mention of the testimony of surviving German witnesses and perpetrators.

The watertable at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which makes claims of huge burning pits for tens of thousands of bodies untenable.

The position of the water-table in any given area varies hugely over time. A few years back it rose up through the floor of my hallway. Damn the housing association for not installing a decent damp-proof course!

Isn’t this a bit like one of the gospels making no mention of the cross?

No, because there is no evidence that JC existed, just as there is plenty of evidence that many millions of people were exterminated at deathcamps by the 3rd Reich.

Virtually every survivor who was examined at Auschwitz says he or she was examined by Dr. Joseph Mengele.

Exaggeration or generalization Phantom?

“Proof” of the Holocaust rests largely on survivor testimony; there is little if any hard evidence.

So what do you have on the revisionist side? Not even testimony! What HARD evidence do you have? SUPPOSITION?!

Why do the court historians insist that “denying the Holocaust” is like denying slavery or saying the earth is flat, when it is nothing of the sort? The leading Revisionists are first-rate scholars who hold advanced degrees from the world’s leading universities. Is there anyone comparable among those who would say the earth is flat or that slavery never existed?

Your own claims have varied wildly, as I previously demonstrated. Some days you say the Shoah never happened at all, and on others you make concessions.

Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concern about remembering the Holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven’t Civil War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959?

In actual fact they have, as with all historical events, historiography is much easier with living testimony.

Survivors of the Holocaust testified that smoke billowed from the crematoria as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims. Some eyewitnesses even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoria do not emit smoke of any color?

Clearly not ALL eyewitnesses are correct. Some are wrong, some are even lying. But that doesn't mean they are ALL wrong or ALL lying does it? Why are you false-logic obsessed?

Furthermore, why have no remains been found

Are you fucking joking? No remains found! Do your eyes jump over those photos when you study history?

All of the liberated camps were littered with corpses; is there a single autopsy report or any other forensic evidence that shows that even a single death was as a consequence of poison gas?

Littered with corpses....no remains found. Make your mind up son! When the soldiers found the camps and were cleaning them up they didn't stop to do autopsies on every body, no. That doesn't mean you can ignore all the other evidence of the use of the gas chambers.

Has any independent demographic study been produced that shows that 6 million Jews were “missing” at the end of the war?

The names of the missing have been published. These names are on the walls of the museums.

Why do the wartime inspection reports of the camps made by the International Red Cross contain no references to mass executions? It strains credulity that such monumental crimes could be hidden. The only explanations are that these crimes were not occurring or that the Red Cross was complicit in a cover-up.

You seem to be obsessed with false logic. There are MANY other explanations. e.g. The Red Cross were not involved with the clear up of the camps, and therefore would not have been included in their reports.

What other historical truths rely to the extent that the Holocaust does rely on eyewitness testimony, and why have none of these eyewitnesses every been cross examined?

The Battle of Little Bighorn, Bloody Sunday, Gunpowder Plot, etc...

Q: Which other event has been reexamined by those with political motives, creating a worldwide cult of revisionist idiots who succeed by ignoring real evidence?

According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained ignorant of their fate until the very end, so skillful were their Nazi murders in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact that the Jews have historically been as a group the most literate and highly informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest levels of government?

This is probably the best example of false logic I've ever seen.

Another Q: Why not use your own words this time Phantom?

I didn't really expect anyone to rebut the post, just as none have bother rebutting the several other holocaust posts I have here.

Because you ignore other people's arguments.

literal definition of the word holocaust is sacrifice by fire,unless nazi policy was human sacrifice by fire,then by definition it didnt happen.

Ooh, hang on, we might have a challenger for the False Logic World Cup yet! :D

[seanx]

zarah wrote:

I've prolly missed something, I normally do..but do we have to agree with everything Icke tells us? Are we not entitled to form our own opinions, too?

I hope all of the Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Athiest et al children have a quiet night's sleep despite all of the hate that surrounds them.

You imply that Phantom and others who agree with his posts have motives which are anti-Jewish, which is exactly the argument which is given by tptb whenever the holocaust is questioned. Funny

On something as fundamental as this??

The difference between freedom and fasism.

Pleae read all of Mr. Phantom' posts.

Mr Phantom tell us that Hitler was a 'great man'- a 'great leader' -
and that all the terrible things he did was a lie.

A slur on his greatness.

Personally,I don't know how you are going to convince all
the old Londoners who he tried to blow to smithereens - that
the Blitz was just a halluncination they were experiencing.

But not doubt mr Phantom will try.

But why the obsession with the jews?

The Brits and the Americans killed millions too- they they admit -
and don't deny the slaughter they caused in the war.

Ok, you say there was only 1 million killed?

Ok, let's accept that.

Or, better still, if you want to play phantom's sick game, let's
said it was all a con. No-one died. They all just pretended.

Are you happy now? Contented?


But where does it get us?

Will all the problems of the world be solved? Suddenly vanish?
Because the Jews conned us all?

No.

Because now you come to the real core of Mr.
Phantom - and probably your agenda - where he admits that the
Illunimati is not in fact the illuminati - but a jewish illuminati, run and
totally controlled by them.

Now where does that led us?

Well......of course, if that is true, one solution is obvious.

And very quick.

If the illuminati is just jewish- then all we have to do is wripe
out all the jews and we'll have paradise.

The illuminati destroyed. End of story. We'll all live happily
ever after.


And let's imagine we do that. Every jew is taken out and
destroyed.


Do you think the next day, poverty will be solved?

All our diseases cured? Our fear of death vanished? The discovery
of unlimited clean energy. All wars ended. Peace everywhere?

No - because we'll still be left with our scared, frightened,
separated human consciousness.

We'll still have the same fears, beliefs and terrors of lack, sickness and
separation from our loved ones.

That's why icke says the problem is WITHIN us.

It's in our beliefs about ourselves. Our beliefs
about what we believe is possible. Our beliefs
about the nature of reality

The solution lies in the transformation of our consciousness.

Not in the silly game of blaming one group of people for all our
ills.

So, no .......

I've prolly missed something, I normally do..but do we have to agree with everything Icke tells us? Are we not entitled to form our own opinions, too?

You do not have to agree with what Icke says - but don't pretend
that this is only a small difference.

Something that doesn't mean anything.

This idea is at the core of Icke's and other leading -edge writers
discoveries about the real solution to real change in
the world.

[grover66]

Phantom, the questions you've asked are very interesting. I'm going to print them out and show them to my partner, who likes to consider himself an expert on everything WWII. I've never actually discussed the Holocaust with him, but I'm guessing he'd fall into the category of people that I was up until a few months ago where even questioning that it ever happened was sacrilege.

My jury is still out about the whole thing, mind you, but what I can't get my head around these days is how people are actually thrown in gaol for questioning that the Holocaust ever happened!!! No matter how you look at it, that's just not right. And after having looked at a few websites now that question the official line, I must admit there's more to it all than meets the eye.

[zarah]

Seanx:

On something as fundamental as the choice between freedom and facism? So if I question the story of the holocaust Im guilty of supporting facism? Do you see the hyprocrisy in that?

I haven't implied in anything Ive posted that Ive had or got positive thoughts of Hitler. He is guilty, alongside many other leaders, of mass murder on a huge scale. My point is that there is a valid argument in investigating further the 'official' holocaust story - end of sentance. I think it's altogether too misleading to spend twenty minutes posting a diatribe, accusing me of doing anything other that what Ive implicitly stated.

[synergy777]

there was a holocaust of jews, its the number which is open to analysis. there was a holocaust in russia too, stalin killed many millions. many romanies/gypsies were killed, what about all the good people who died in the war. all sides/nations had losses. the elite do not care which nation/religion suffers the most, as they hate all nations/religions.

the whole world was sacrificed to by the elite, holocaust i think means burnt offering, hence a satanic sacrifice.

there are no victors of wars, and no war is ever good.

peace is the aim, and is the best way.

[seanx]

Zarah wrote:
On something as fundamental as the choice between freedom and facism? So if I question the story of the holocaust Im guilty of supporting facism? Do you see the hyprocrisy in that?

You don't actual read the posts, do you?

If you did, you'd see I say if you actually read all of
Phantom's post---you will see you'll his main theme
is really about Hilter and how the Illuminati is a wholly jewish
conspiracy?

It's about freedom and fasism. I never even mentioned you.
But maybe you regard yourself as part of Mr Phantom's front
line. The crack troppers!

Or do you just filter out any information that you find
disagreeable.

Or maybe you're telling me you see no difference between
Icke's ideas of freedom and Hilter's ideas of ' freedom', whom Mr.
Phantom champions. Again, actual read his posts.

But what I do notice is that neither you or Mr Phantom will
never debate Icke's view of this in terms of human
consciousness and not just a simplistic jewish question.

Instead, all you people do is revert back to the past -
rehasing all the same old stuff.

Like a broken record.

We need to look at these probelms with new eyes- new
solutions -not going over the same old hate ground.

I mean do you have any response to the last post. Do any of Icke's
ideas about the real solution resonate with you?

Or maybe you agree with Mr Phantom that it is all a jewish
illuminati problem and we're all wasting our time?

Who knows?

[seanx]

Synergy 777 wrote:

there was a holocaust of jews, its the number which is open to analysis. there was a holocaust in russia too, stalin killed many millions. many romanies/gypsies were killed, what about all the good people who died in the war. all sides/nations had losses. the elite do not care which nation/religion suffers the most, as they hate all nations/religions.

the whole world was sacrificed to by the elite, holocaust i think means burnt offering, hence a satanic sacrifice.

there are no victors of wars, and no war is ever good.

peace is the aim, and is the best way

Excellent post.

The jews were just pawns - another 'story' to get people fighting
and divided about.

They used the jews like the they used the romanies/gypsies and all
the good people who died in the West and Russia.

[synergy777]

i have great respect/love for jews, especially the torah jews. these people are having a civil war with the zionists. just as good muslims are having a civil war with extremists/wahabbis. just as good christians are having a civil war with identity/british israeli's etc.

divide and rule.

[zarah]

Seanx,

I'm neither 12 years old nor sub-intelligent, so I would prefer if you didn't attempt to condescend in every post you make to me.

I, unlike you, am not into focusing on one particular member and denigrating his character because I don't happen to share his view, so if you don't mind I won't spend an hour reading all of Phantom's post to gauge his opinion of Hitler or any other leader.

The essence of this thread is the questioning of the 'official' story of one important aspect of WW2. I agree with Phantom in that there seem to be many facts which are arguable to say the least and enquiring minds have the right to investigate further.

I also agree with Synergy, millions of people died in that war, from a myriad of races and faiths, but we are not forced to remember these through special memorial days, museums, films and education and there isn't a law to deter us from questioning any aspect of their deaths.

I can appreciate that we have differing opinions on how valid re-investigating history is, but your blatant attacking posts do nothing except divide when apparently we have the same rationale, which is a shame.

[seanx]

because I don't happen to share his view, so if you don't mind I won't spend an hour reading all of Phantom's post to gauge his opinion of Hitler or any other leader.

I'm sorry the posts I'm talking about are on THIS thread
thread.

And since you're responding to this thread- you must have
read them.

He wrote this just a few posts ago on THIS thread? Did you
miss that, too?

Yes, I still say that the power at the top of the pyramid is solely jewish controlled. They have their minions like Bush, cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair and so on and have had many others throughout history but they are not the power. It is hidden as we know. It’s just that I have the front to say it how I see it without the rosy coloured glasses on.

Are you wrong for wanting to see an end to the illuminati?

No, you are not in my eyes.

Therefore, you want nothing different to what Hitler wanted.

You and others may believe that he was part of the illuminati but I do not believe that.

So this is not really about the holercaust - but Mr. Phantom real
agenda.

But it seems, like Mr phantom you filter out what conflicts
with your beliefs.

Your choice.

The reason why this topic is important, as you may or may
not know is that there was and is a concerted campaign to discredit
icke's ideas by labelling him as anti-jewish.

These people are continually looking for an excuse to
ban his material.

So- I'm sorry but if you come on here supporting a fascist
like Mr Phantom - maybe you should take the trouble to
read him.


Now I may be naive - but anybody who spams this forum
in the space of a few days with threads like this, is
up to something:


The Auschwitz 'Gas Chamber' Illusion

Interesting: A Jew defends Hitler

Why I don't believe ANYBODY was gassed in Dachau.

Holocaust is Nothing But A HoloHoax

And then on Christmas eve, he wanted to 'discuss' the poison
that was used to kill all the innocent victims with this thread of
giant intellect:

Does anyone here know how Zyklon B works?

So, I'm sorry if robust debate upsets you - but it's strange you
ONLY seem to have problems with my arguments - and not
with any of the racist crap Mr Phantom posts.

Do you not smell a set-up?

Soon, n annoynous call to a national UK newspaper:

'Hey, mr. journalist you know that guy, Icke -the guy we thought
was a anti-jewish hate monger- well. fuck me, but take a look at his
forum - and the shit his 'supporters' believe in. There are posts there
that would make the BNP blush.........How can that shit be allowed................"

Of course, the paper won't mention all the hate shit comes
from the SAME person and his tinyl group of supporters.....

But then....when did truth ever come into it......


Sorry here's another great quote from phantom just a few posts ago.
You may have missed it too.

I believe Hitler was a good, strong leader who wanted to take back the power from the zionists who had hijacked Germany. I would never put Bush on par with Hitler. That would be an insult to Hitler. Hitler fought against the zionists, Bush is fighting for them because he is one of them.

Now- we all know Bush is sick - and a joke - but I don't believe he's
yet reacked the figure of 50 million dead caused by mr Hilter
in his attempt for world control , world domination.

[zarah]

Yes. You meant on this thread, I got that.


You can't possibly do anything less than guess his purpose on the thread and you also can't presume to know what information I retain.

I've got a suggestion, see what you think - how about instead of making useless assumptions, why don't you try refuting the facts as they're stated?

I can kinda see what you're saying about Phantom's topics all being about the holocaust (Im taking your word for it, I haven't actually checked) but to run scared of it because youre worried about Icke or anyone else connected to this forum being labelled as an 'anti-semite' is ludicrous. Phantom may not like Jewish people, that's his call, but to say that we as a social group shouldn't discuss an event in history in case we're labelled with a slur which tptb bandy about to stifle free speech is tantamount to censorship.

[seanx]

I can kinda see what you're saying about Phantom's topics all being about the holocaust (Im taking your word for it, I haven't actually checked) but to run scared of it because youre worried about Icke or anyone else connected to this forum being labelled as an 'anti-semite' is ludicrous. Phantom may not like Jewish people, that's his call, but to say that we as a social group shouldn't discuss an event in history in case we're labelled with a slur which tptb bandy about to stifle free speech is tantamount to censorship.


I am not saying we shouldn't discuss this, but WE SHOULD MOVE
ON.

Obviously you don't read any of the posts here..

Here's one such post:

Ok, you say there was only 1 million killed?

Ok, let's accept that.

Or, better still, if you want to play phantom's sick game, let's
said it was all a con. No-one died. They all just pretended.


But where does it get us?

Will all the problems of the world be solved? Suddenly vanish?
Because the Jews conned us all?

No.

Because now you come to the real core of Mr.
Phantom - and probably your agenda - where he admits that the
Illunimati is not in fact the illuminati - but a jewish illuminati, run and
totally controlled by them.

Now where does that led us?

Well......of course, if that is true, one solution is obvious.

And very quick.

If the illuminati is just jewish- then all we have to do is wripe
out all the jews and we'll have paradise.

The illuminati destroyed. End of story. We'll all live happily
ever after.


And let's imagine we do that. Every jew is taken out and
destroyed.


Do you think the next day, poverty will be solved?

All our diseases cured? Our fear of death
vanished? The discovery of unlimited clean energy. All
wars ended. Peace everywhere?

No - because we'll still be left with our scared, frightened,
separated human consciousness.

We'll still have the same fears, beliefs and terrors of lack,
sickness and separation from our loved ones.

That's why icke says the problem is WITHIN us.

It's in our beliefs about ourselves. Our beliefs about what
we believe is possible. Our beliefs about the nature of reality

The solution lies in the transformation of our consciousness.

Not in the silly game of blaming one group of people for all our
ills.



Zarah wrote:
how about instead of making useless assumptions,
why don't you try refuting the facts as they're stated?

Refute them?

Have you read the post by Adimon where he tears your
friends arguments to pieces? And the above poster has military
experience and so would know the logistics of a lot of these matters.


making useless assumptions,

Useless assumptions?

So where Mr Phantom writes that the Illuminati is wholly Jewish
controlled.....I'm just assuming it ?

Or where he says 'Hitler is a great man' - again I'm just making
another wild assumption?

Funny, I though Mr. Phantom is quite clear in what he believes.

[zarah]

You and others say we should move on, I and others say we should resolve the huge discrepancies.

This isn't a 'Jewish' problem and who on earth, apart from you, is mentioning killing anybody? I question why on at least two occasions you have introduced this concept, explaining that it won't solve any current issues. Well umm, no, murder, I think we agree, is wrong under any circumstance.

Ive read some of Adiom's post and I'll ensure that I read some more when I have some time later. I didn't ask why anyone hadn't refuted though, I asked why YOU hadn't. You seem to do little more than try to condescend and denigrate without addressing the core of the argument, which obviously are the facts.

We are forced to remember an historical events which the facts show may not have occured in the way we have been told. There exists a law in many countries, which runs parallel to free speech rights, which states that citizens or visitors may not question the holocaust. Our children are taught this alternative history as fact, the mass media pupports this alternative history as fact and 1.5 million people are suffering under an occupation because of these facts.

How would you suggest we move on? And who would it benefit? Let's not forget most people aren't at all enlightened and don't understand how manipulated we as a people are by tptb.

[seanx]

Zarah wrote:
I didn't ask why anyone hadn't refuted though, I asked why YOU hadn't. You seem to do little more than try to condescend and denigrate without addressing the core of the argument, which obviously are the facts.

Sure, I'll play yours and Phantom's little game.

Get struck in the past.

Instead of looking for real solutions, let's all go back
over the past again.

Let's bring up, re-cycle and re-live once again all the all the
hatred and arguments of that past.

So.....Keep us all struck in the same old Matrix.

I'm Irish - I could spend my life going over the details
of the Famine - every death and horror - showing how
evil and cruel the Brits were.

Yes, this knowledge is important as is the knowledge of what
happened to the Jews ( that's why you'll find it
covered very well in this forum)

But if you think I'm going to play Mr Phantom and your
game by getting involed in this sick debate about HOW
MANY died - and how they died-think again.


Again, I direct you to Adimon's posts on this and Cheeb's
posts where your friend's arguments are torn to pieces.


denigrate without addressing the core of the argument

I'm sorry you regard icke solution to these problems as
'denigrating the argument'

What I did in those posts was put forward some of Icke's
solutionsto these problems.

I mean it is the Dave Icke forum.

If you're only interested in blood-lusting over how
many died - or how they died, there are millions
of holercaust sites out there for you to salivate over.

That's why I asked you what does this obsession with how
many died - and how they died - get us?

Of course, it is important to discuss these issues ( read
this forum - it has been debated as naseum) but you cannot
be that naive to think that Mr Phantom is interested
in the holercaust.

It's only an means to an end.

Please read his posts.

That's why I asked you why his obsession with it?

Does it really matter if it was three million, 4 million or
6 fucking million?

Christ, even a 100,000 innocent people is sick.

That's why Icke says look to the REAL fucking causes.

Stop letting the Elite keep you struck in the Matrix of history
( this doesn't mean denying history, but seeing it in
the BIGGER context of the game the illuminati is playing)

But it seems you people want us to stay in this 'game' and DRAG
us all back there.

And pretend it all just for historical accuracy.

Honest.

No other motives.

Funny, I don't see your friend, the Phantom spamming on any
other topic - like the irish famine, Stalin's Russian victims, Mao's
millions of victims, the blood bath in Rhwanda.

Just the Holercaust and how it never happened.


How would you suggest we move on? And who would it
benefit

WHO WOULD IT BENEFIT????

Who would it benefit if we woke up, like Icke is suggesting in all
his books and SEE that the Illuminati is not one nationality, not
one religous group - or one colour group?

That the illuminati represent a dead, ruthlessly cold state of mind
utterly separated from it's source. Look into their EYES and you'll see
it. Spend some time in their company ...and you'll FEEL it.

It means we'd WAKE up from the divide and conquer game they
have ben playing for centuries.

But hey, why do that when we can argue over how
many jews were really killed?

The same old stuff.

I've spend enough time on this.

At least, new members who see Phantom's spamming threads
and his small group of supporters will know that this is not just
another hate site, blaimg all our problems on one group of people.

I'm going only to end with Icke's perspective on this as he has
written about in his books.

I've gving up asking either phantom or Zarah to debate what Icke
says on this.

I'm still waiting. They just want to go back again to their numbers
of death game.



Ok, you say there was only 1 million killed?

Ok, let's accept that.

Or, better still, if you want to play phantom's sick game, let's
said it was all a con. No-one died. They all just pretended.


But where does it get us?

Will all the problems of the world be solved? Suddenly vanish?
Because the Jews conned us all?

No.

Because now you come to the real core of Mr.
Phantom - and probably your agenda - where he admits
that the Illunimati is not in fact the illuminati - but a jewish
illuminati, run and totally controlled by them.

Now where does that led us?

Well......of course, if that is true, one solution is obvious.

And very quick.

If the illuminati is just jewish- then all we have to do is wripe
out all the jews and we'll have paradise.

The illuminati destroyed. End of story. We'll all live happily
ever after.


And let's imagine we do that. Every jew is taken out and
destroyed.


Do you think the next day, poverty will be solved?

All our diseases cured? Our fear of death
vanished? The discovery of unlimited clean energy. All
wars ended. Peace everywhere?

No - because we'll still be left with our scared,
frightened, separated human consciousness.

We'll still have the same fears, beliefs and terrors of lack,
sickness and separation from our loved ones.

That's why icke says the problem is WITHIN us.

It's in our beliefs about ourselves. Our beliefs about what
we believe is possible. Our beliefs about the nature
of reality


The solution lies in the transformation of our
consciousness.

Not in the silly game of blaming one group of people for all our
ills.

Again, this doesn't mean we DENY history or FORGET
it, but we see it in the BIGGER context of the game the illuminati
is playing)

But it also means we don't let haters and their supporters draw
us back into these hate and blame games so we lose this BIGGER
picture.

[e7304]

This thread was about problems with the official holocaust story. About 10 years ago I accidently came across information regarding the "disinfo" regarding the holocaust and it shocked my world view. It really, really shocked me....so over the next 6 months I started to look at the Holocaust from a more skeptical view. Eventually it caused a paradigm shift and I was bloody angry. I was angry because I had watched movies and documentaries about the holocaust, all claiming to be true. But suddenly there was other information out there which contradicted the official story. Not racist rants but well documented facts. I wanted to know more. It was like an itch you couldnt scratch.

Suddenly I realised that "revisionists" were being imprisoned, not because of "hate" speech, but because they were possibly on to something. Why imprison them when you could just debate them in a public forum and defeat their ideas easily so everyone could see. It bugged me no end. I did not have internet access in those days so I would go to the nearest capital city and hunt out obscure book shops for any information. I also watched in disbelief when news "reporters" kept claiming 6 million jewish people were murdered when the Auschwitz plaque that originally stated 4 million dead was changed to just over 1 million. I wondered "dont these journos keep up with the news and do maths?". Thats when I really knew something was wrong.

The fact that more Chinese were murdered by the Japanese and more christians were murdered by the Soviets is a fact.

Also that these atrocities are not highlighted by our main forms of information ie TV, news media and especially Hollywood, is very important. How many holocaust movies have been made and how many Hollywood movies not about the holocaust but mention it in the script, have been made?. How many Hollywood movies have been made about the slaughter of christians by the Soviets?or the Chinese slaughtered by the Japanese?or the Chinese murderd under Mao??....Now we were supposedly at war with the Soviets for nearly 50 years but very few movies , if any, came out about the atrocities they commited. Most movies were espionage type flicks.Why not portray our enemies with some shocking facts? We are doing it to the Germans constantly, even though they are our allies!

The reason I mention Hollywood is because we all know its the greatest form of propaganda on the planet today.

The Holocaust is an important topic because it is relevant today. Once I realised the amount of media coverage , I was shocked. There would not go a single month, sometimes even a week, when the holocaust isnt mentioned in the MSM or Hollywood.It is also used by the Israeli propaganda machine continously.

Norman Finklestein also notes this in his books and only this year (2007) groups of Holocaust victims children were putting a class action together for their "distress" for being children of the victims of the holocaust and want to sue various govts. Finklestein highlighted this type of manipulation but he doesnt deny any aspect of the holocaust. By the way most of the money "victims" sue for is not seen by them. Most of it goes into these giant jewish organisations that put up more temples, museums PR etc

Why is it we can question everything in history apart from this, Why do people immediately go "hate monger", "antisemite" etc when someone questions it. What is it that makes people get violent when anyone questions the holocaust.?Try taliking to people about it...they get violent!

To my eyes now I see the holocaust as a cult. You cannot question its faith or you are a heretic. Eye witness testimony is given preference than scientific scutiny. Temples are erected around the western world and even today, 60 years later, the German people are still held accountable for something most of them were not alive at the time to have any say on the actions, real or percived, of their forefathers. Germany is still an occupied country in my opinion and has the strickest laws concerning "holocaust denial". Aspects of this cult could be seen when Prince Harry dressed up as a Afrika Corp at a fancy dress party and was photgraphed with a cigarette and a beer in hand. Immediately some prominent Jewish person claimed he should be sent to Poland and Aushwitz. What an ego!! What the hell did Rommels Afrika Corp have to do with Aushwitz.!! Did anyone in the MSM decide to tell this gentleman that many other people died in WW2?, Of course not.

Holocaust historians have distanced themselves from many books written by survivors. Many authors have been labled as frauds but they dont appear to be exposed by the MSM. Its only in obscure newspapers and magazines this information is found. Its more politically correct to let them just slowly fade away.

Winners write history. We all know that. Zionists in Palestine were allies of the Nazis. This would have really pissed of many jews back in Eastern Europe if known. But we won the war and things just didnt get mentioned.


Its all about Israel in my opinion. Zionists wanted Israel and any jew who did not want to be a part of this was to be "sacrificed" for the cause. The real victims today of the Holocaust are the Palestinian people. Their democratically elected govt, HAMAS, has been vilified by the west. Western Govts, I believe, have this "guilt" trip about European Jews and the holocaust, and are reluctant to speak out against the atrocities Israel continually does. If they did speak out, the programming of the general population would be "anti semites" etc etc etc.

The racist views and policies of the Israeli Govt highlight an arrogance that is amazing. Ariel Sharon told Perez "we own the United States and they know it". Benny Netanyahoo attended a King David memorial, where hundreds died after Jewish "terrorists" blew up the King David hotel, but he attended a memorial for the "terrorists". British diplomats, soldiers as well as arab and jewish people were murdered that day.Yet the west said nothing. Once again the guilt trip. Barak intends to murder the HAMAS prime minister, apparently with Washingtons blessing while the corrupt PA get all the money and aid promised from the Annapolis "conference". while the people in Gaza are ignored.

Finally, Israel has nothing to do with jews and antisemitism, but they have managed to tie them together. Pure propaganda but it works. So so many people refuse to state the bloody obvious. The fact that many jews world wide condem the Israeli state shows this.

This is why the Holocaust is important.

The PTB utilised the Zionists. Many commentators today claim that the "Palestinian question" (the jewish question) is what radicalises many groups in the ME. Even Hitler knew this would happen.

This thread is not about "jews ruling the world". Propaganda and conditioning lend people to come to this conclusion anytime the holocaust question is raised.

The only conclusion is that that the racist state of Israel makes peace with its neighbours and the west should stop supporting it because of its present and historical policies but especially if its creation was all based on a lie...ie the perpetual victim, which it has played us all for too long. The "conditioning" the western populations have been subject too, stop any real investigaton into the holocaust. Its grown into a religious cult, that cant be denied or questioned.

Good night and happy new year.

[hirschfelder]

SeanX, if the topic makes you uncomfortable, why don't you 'move on' rather than insisting everybdy does?

There are plenty of question marks over the official Holocaust story and, as ever, there is plenty of contradictory evidence obscuring the truth. This is how they make history out of lies

Again, there is no 'hard evidence' that the story is based on a lie, this is good enough for a lot of people who are therefore happy to believe the official version. I've said it before, control evidence and you can control reality

Anyway, I like these holocaust threads, Phantom does a sterling job arguing his points and I see no reason why you should insist we move on just because it makes YOU uncomfortable or because YOU see no lie/conspiracy

[seanx]

SeanX, if the topic makes you uncomfortable, why don't you 'move on' rather than insisting everybdy does?

There are plenty of question marks over the official Holocaust story and, as ever, there is plenty of contradictory evidence obscuring the truth. This is how they make history out of lies

No mate, it makes YOU uncomfortable- that people want to look
to the future - look at new solutions - and the REAL CAUSES
behind these issues.

You know, you are on the Dave ICKE forum - so why do you find it
surprising that people want to look at this problem form that
perspective.

Or do you want us all to keep quiet and let the 'sudden emergerence'
of all these people out of no-where, to continue to spam this forum
with their sudden concern for 'historical accuracy'.

And you notice- like yourself, none of them will debate this issue from
icke's wider perpective.

Just more of the same old stuff.

I look forward to their equal enthusiasm for historical accuracy'
in regatd to mr. stalins, Mao , etc.

Nay, it just seems its the 'jews' this 'new group' have interest in.

Wonder why?

[hirschfelder]

No mate, it makes YOU uncomfortable- that people want to look
to the future - look at new solutions - and the REAL CAUSES
behind these issues.

You know, you are on the Dave ICKE forum - so why do you find it
surprising that people want to look at this problem form that
perspective.

Or do you want us all to keep quiet and let the 'sudden emergerence'
of all these people out of no-where, to continue to spam this forum
with their sudden concern for 'historical accuracy'.

And you notice- like yourself, none of them will debate this issue from
icke's wider perpective.

Just more of the same old stuff.

I look forward to their equal enthusiasm for historical accuracy'
in regatd to mr. stalins, Mao , etc.

Nay, it just seems its the 'jews' this 'new group' have interest in.

Wonder why?

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. Isn't Phantom concerned with the 'real causes' of the Holocaust? I'd say he is. If he's right, then the world has had this lie imposed on them through a conspiracy involving the media, Hollywood, education, criminal legislation etc. This would serve to support Icke's broader theories would it not? Surely establishing that the lie exists is the first port-of-call if we are to progress to a position where us, the masses, will no longer accept manipulation and dishonesty?

You've tried to make clear your objections to the topic, why not leave it at that, why try impose your will on everyone else?

You don't seem to ever challenge the content of Phantom's posts, you just post objection after objection to the topic as a whole

If people want to raise questions and have a debate, let them. If you want to control the content of a forum, open up www.seanx.com/forum

[seanx]

hirschfelder wrote:


You've tried to make clear your objections to the topic, why not leave it at that, why try impose your will on everyone else

You don't seem to ever challenge the content of Phantom's posts, you just post objection after objection to the topic as a whole

Really, mate, I've never challenged your friend - mr Phantom!

Really!

I'm tried of challenging Mr Phantom to debate with me on the
problem from Icke's wider perspective.

Not a fucking word.

But maybe you'd like to challenge some of Mr phanton's ideas
that he has expressed here in this thread?

Ideas like:

That 'Hitler was a great leader'

Or:

Or that the Illuminati is 'just a jewish organiation, run and totally
controlled by the Jews'?

No. Not a word from you on this issues.

Just a sad whine that I'm not answering any of mr Phantom's points
that no holercaust happened.

You see Mr Phantom is clever than you lot.

He knows this is not about the Holocaust......
Read his posts and he'll give you all the hints you want.

e7304 wrote:

This thread is not about "jews ruling the world". Propaganda and conditioning lend people to come to this conclusion anytime the holocaust question is raised.

You make some good points how some zionist groups use their
influence and especially Hollywood to promote the kind of Israel they
want.

And your points are right and valid.

Their influence is totally negative and destructive and destroyoing
any hope of a settlement with palestine.

One only has to look at the massive financial aid given to Israel -
with the pittance, if any given to the Palestians

All vaild points.

But I'm afraid you seriously misjudge the true motives of the
poster you are writing to support.

You say this thread is not about 'jews ruling the world' -
which mean, I'm afraid you have not bothered to read all
of phantoms posts here.

I'm assumng English is your first language - then could you explain
what Mr. Phantom means when he says?:

The Illuminati is 'just a jewish organiation, run and totally controlled
by the Jews'. Bent on world domination.

Seems pretty clear to me - what his real agenda is.

You see this is what Icke is trying to get people to see
beyond.

To wake up and see beyond these
'stories'- these artificial divisons put 'in place' by
the illuminati.

They may seem 'opposites' but , they're not.

The 'division' between the jews and the arabs.

Between the Irish and English.

Between catholic and Protestant.

And today, between the Muslims and the rest of us.

The same old story

The same old tactic ..

.

[steevo]

Phantom, why did they tattoo certain Jews ? Can you please answer any question I ask you without copy and pasting. I want YOUR opinions not someone elses opinions. A politician would be proud of the way you answer questions.

[seanx]

I look forward to the Phantom answering you.

Or any of his 'newly arrived army'.

They seem very quite when their 'leader' is not around.

See also a great post by dogsmilk - and by cheeb in political
cover-up section.

[nickatnoon61]

You and others say we should move on, I and others say we should resolve the huge discrepancies.

This isn't a 'Jewish' problem and who on earth, apart from you, is mentioning killing anybody? I question why on at least two occasions you have introduced this concept, explaining that it won't solve any current issues. Well umm, no, murder, I think we agree, is wrong under any circumstance.

Ive read some of Adiom's post and I'll ensure that I read some more when I have some time later. I didn't ask why anyone hadn't refuted though, I asked why YOU hadn't. You seem to do little more than try to condescend and denigrate without addressing the core of the argument, which obviously are the facts.

We are forced to remember an historical events which the facts show may not have occured in the way we have been told. There exists a law in many countries, which runs parallel to free speech rights, which states that citizens or visitors may not question the holocaust. Our children are taught this alternative history as fact, the mass media pupports this alternative history as fact and 1.5 million people are suffering under an occupation because of these facts.

How would you suggest we move on? And who would it benefit? Let's not forget most people aren't at all enlightened and don't understand how manipulated we as a people are by tptb. zarah, what you have said is TOO REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT. These ignorant Shabboz Goy like Seanx, Adimon, and the rest are conditioned for life! YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ENERGY WADING IN SHIT WITH THESE TURDS! Leave them to themselves and watch them devour eachother!!!! When you cannot answer an argument...attack the person making it! This is ALL they have done in months of similar debate! It is because it is all they have!

[lizzy]

This thread was about problems with the official holocaust story. About 10 years ago I accidently came across information regarding the "disinfo" regarding the holocaust and it shocked my world view. It really, really shocked me....so over the next 6 months I started to look at the Holocaust from a more skeptical view. Eventually it caused a paradigm shift and I was bloody angry. I was angry because I had watched movies and documentaries about the holocaust, all claiming to be true. But suddenly there was other information out there which contradicted the official story. Not racist rants but well documented facts. I wanted to know more. It was like an itch you couldnt scratch.

Suddenly I realised that "revisionists" were being imprisoned, not because of "hate" speech, but because they were possibly on to something. Why imprison them when you could just debate them in a public forum and defeat their ideas easily so everyone could see. It bugged me no end. I did not have internet access in those days so I would go to the nearest capital city and hunt out obscure book shops for any information. I also watched in disbelief when news "reporters" kept claiming 6 million jewish people were murdered when the Auschwitz plaque that originally stated 4 million dead was changed to just over 1 million. I wondered "dont these journos keep up with the news and do maths?". Thats when I really knew something was wrong.

The fact that more Chinese were murdered by the Japanese and more christians were murdered by the Soviets is a fact.

Also that these atrocities are not highlighted by our main forms of information ie TV, news media and especially Hollywood, is very important. How many holocaust movies have been made and how many Hollywood movies not about the holocaust but mention it in the script, have been made?. How many Hollywood movies have been made about the slaughter of christians by the Soviets?or the Chinese slaughtered by the Japanese?or the Chinese murderd under Mao??....Now we were supposedly at war with the Soviets for nearly 50 years but very few movies , if any, came out about the atrocities they commited. Most movies were espionage type flicks.Why not portray our enemies with some shocking facts? We are doing it to the Germans constantly, even though they are our allies!

The reason I mention Hollywood is because we all know its the greatest form of propaganda on the planet today.

The Holocaust is an important topic because it is relevant today. Once I realised the amount of media coverage , I was shocked. There would not go a single month, sometimes even a week, when the holocaust isnt mentioned in the MSM or Hollywood.It is also used by the Israeli propaganda machine continously.

Norman Finklestein also notes this in his books and only this year (2007) groups of Holocaust victims children were putting a class action together for their "distress" for being children of the victims of the holocaust and want to sue various govts. Finklestein highlighted this type of manipulation but he doesnt deny any aspect of the holocaust. By the way most of the money "victims" sue for is not seen by them. Most of it goes into these giant jewish organisations that put up more temples, museums PR etc

Why is it we can question everything in history apart from this, Why do people immediately go "hate monger", "antisemite" etc when someone questions it. What is it that makes people get violent when anyone questions the holocaust.?Try taliking to people about it...they get violent!

To my eyes now I see the holocaust as a cult. You cannot question its faith or you are a heretic. Eye witness testimony is given preference than scientific scutiny. Temples are erected around the western world and even today, 60 years later, the German people are still held accountable for something most of them were not alive at the time to have any say on the actions, real or percived, of their forefathers. Germany is still an occupied country in my opinion and has the strickest laws concerning "holocaust denial". Aspects of this cult could be seen when Prince Harry dressed up as a Afrika Corp at a fancy dress party and was photgraphed with a cigarette and a beer in hand. Immediately some prominent Jewish person claimed he should be sent to Poland and Aushwitz. What an ego!! What the hell did Rommels Afrika Corp have to do with Aushwitz.!! Did anyone in the MSM decide to tell this gentleman that many other people died in WW2?, Of course not.

Holocaust historians have distanced themselves from many books written by survivors. Many authors have been labled as frauds but they dont appear to be exposed by the MSM. Its only in obscure newspapers and magazines this information is found. Its more politically correct to let them just slowly fade away.

Winners write history. We all know that. Zionists in Palestine were allies of the Nazis. This would have really pissed of many jews back in Eastern Europe if known. But we won the war and things just didnt get mentioned.


Its all about Israel in my opinion. Zionists wanted Israel and any jew who did not want to be a part of this was to be "sacrificed" for the cause. The real victims today of the Holocaust are the Palestinian people. Their democratically elected govt, HAMAS, has been vilified by the west. Western Govts, I believe, have this "guilt" trip about European Jews and the holocaust, and are reluctant to speak out against the atrocities Israel continually does. If they did speak out, the programming of the general population would be "anti semites" etc etc etc.

The racist views and policies of the Israeli Govt highlight an arrogance that is amazing. Ariel Sharon told Perez "we own the United States and they know it". Benny Netanyahoo attended a King David memorial, where hundreds died after Jewish "terrorists" blew up the King David hotel, but he attended a memorial for the "terrorists". British diplomats, soldiers as well as arab and jewish people were murdered that day.Yet the west said nothing. Once again the guilt trip. Barak intends to murder the HAMAS prime minister, apparently with Washingtons blessing while the corrupt PA get all the money and aid promised from the Annapolis "conference". while the people in Gaza are ignored.

Finally, Israel has nothing to do with jews and antisemitism, but they have managed to tie them together. Pure propaganda but it works. So so many people refuse to state the bloody obvious. The fact that many jews world wide condem the Israeli state shows this.

This is why the Holocaust is important.

The PTB utilised the Zionists. Many commentators today claim that the "Palestinian question" (the jewish question) is what radicalises many groups in the ME. Even Hitler knew this would happen.

This thread is not about "jews ruling the world". Propaganda and conditioning lend people to come to this conclusion anytime the holocaust question is raised.

The only conclusion is that that the racist state of Israel makes peace with its neighbours and the west should stop supporting it because of its present and historical policies but especially if its creation was all based on a lie...ie the perpetual victim, which it has played us all for too long. The "conditioning" the western populations have been subject too, stop any real investigaton into the holocaust. Its grown into a religious cult, that cant be denied or questioned.

Good night and happy new year.

great summary. thankyou.

[nickatnoon61]

I look forward to the Phantom answering you.

Or any of his 'newly arrived army'.

They seem very quite when their 'leader' is not around.

See also a great post by dogsmilk - and by cheeb in political
cover-up section. That's right seanx, an army of intelligent truthseekers fed up with the likes of you lying apologists/Jew arsekissers! Here is one American man's experienced opinion of the Israeli problem, and I could not agree more.....
THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO EXPEL THESE GODDAM LEECHES AND VIRAL PARASITES! OUT OF EVERY CONCEIVABLE HOLE, CREVICE AND SEWER THEY CRAWL AND MULTIPLY IN!!! THIS IS ABSURD!!! THIS COUNTRY IS A FETID CESSPOOL WHERE ISRAELI FECES FLOAT FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER!!

[nickatnoon61]

Thanx CB, I stated months ago that the character "Golem" from LOTR trilogy was the symbology/ epitomy of a Jew. The lowest scum of the earth,never to be trusted. That was a deduction/intuition that I received. Now I get this email, that may confirm my intuition as fact! Nick.




Begin forwarded message:

From:
Date: January 1, 2008 6:09:08 PM PST (CA)
To:
Subject: The Golem - Book - Threat to World from Israeli Nukes

Michael Collins Piper presents the case for dismantling our planet’s most dangerous arsenal of weapons of mass destruction –
New Book Details Threat to World from Israeli Nukes

By Mark Glenn — AFP

AFP correspondent Michael Collins Piper has just released the first book ever to address the danger the world faces from what he calls “the problem of Israel”—in particular, the existence of Israel’s huge arsenal of atomic weapons of mass destruction.

Mike’s book—200 fact-filled pages, fully 30 dynamic chapters—is entitled The Golem—Israel’s Nuclear Hell Bomb and the Road to Global Armageddon.

Where does the strange title of the book come from? What is a golem? Why in the world would Piper ever select a title like this? Actually, as you’ll see in a moment, the title is both appropriate and frighteningly profound.

You see, in Jewish lore, a distinguished rabbi magically conjured up out of clay from the earth a brutish creature—the golem—that the rabbi dispatched upon the world to vanquish the enemies of the Jewish people.

According to the legend—which later inspired Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein—the Golem got out of control and proved even a threat to Jewish survival. In fact, a most real (and dangerous) golem exists on our planet today.

Cast out of the element uranium, this Golem is—as Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, described it—Israel’s “sacred” nuclear weapon, the primary source of trouble in the precarious realm of atomic proliferation.

The nuclear “golem” is the bizarre and dangerous cornerstone of Israel’s national security policy. Development of a nuclear arsenal was the foundation of Israeli policy from the beginning.
In The Golem, Piper examines not only the fanatical nature of this nuclear policy, but also the ongoing danger of political and civil instability in Israel where anti-Christian and anti-Muslim forces are rising to power.

In Israel today the strange and frightening Talmud based legend of the golem remains a much-celebrated force in popular culture, inextricably linked to Israel’s national security mindset and thinking. There is even a popular cartoon strip, featuring a super hero known as “the golem,” who is said to have spawned when an Israeli was exposed to nuclear radiation from Israel’s officially “non-existent” nuclear weapons program. And now this “golem” is on the loose, defending Israel from its enemies.

Piper’s new book is also a comprehensive overview of the role in which Israel and its lobby in America manipulated the United States into the disastrous no-win war in Iraq and how, even today—despite the recent National Intelligence Estimate which says that Iran abandoned its nuclear program in 2003—Israel and its lobby are still pushing the United States into a war against Iran.

No review of this fantastic new work can do it justice. You need to read this—the one book that could help stop Israel from getting the United States—and the world—involved in a horrifying global holocaust .

To get your copy of this new book from Piper—which is flying off the shelves at AFP—send $25 to AFP, 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, #100,Washington, D.C. 20003. For those of you who send $50 or more, Piper will personally inscribe and number your own copy. Include a neatly printed sheet with the text and name you’d like Mike to use on your inscription. For even faster service, call AFP at 1-888-699-NEWS toll free and use Visa or MasterCard.


(Issue #52, December 24, 2007 American Free Press)

Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003

[nickatnoon61]

great summary. thankyou.lizzy, I just love your signature!!! This is what we are faced with day to day from the drones on the DIF. No-mind conformists!!! Did you know that Adimon is a history teacher. If you want to waste a lot of time and energy read his posts, and then understand why the schools are full of ZIO-engineered,brain-dead conformists!!!

[nickatnoon61]

http://www.cherifo.com/child.htm

[lizzy]

Thanx CB, I stated months ago that the character "Golem" from LOTR trilogy was the symbology/ epitomy of a Jew. The lowest scum of the earth,never to be trusted. That was a deduction/intuition that I received. Now I get this email, that may confirm my intuition as fact! Nick.




Begin forwarded message:

From:
Date: January 1, 2008 6:09:08 PM PST (CA)
To:
Subject: The Golem - Book - Threat to World from Israeli Nukes

Michael Collins Piper presents the case for dismantling our planet’s most dangerous arsenal of weapons of mass destruction –
New Book Details Threat to World from Israeli Nukes

By Mark Glenn — AFP

AFP correspondent Michael Collins Piper has just released the first book ever to address the danger the world faces from what he calls “the problem of Israel”—in particular, the existence of Israel’s huge arsenal of atomic weapons of mass destruction.

Mike’s book—200 fact-filled pages, fully 30 dynamic chapters—is entitled The Golem—Israel’s Nuclear Hell Bomb and the Road to Global Armageddon.

Where does the strange title of the book come from? What is a golem? Why in the world would Piper ever select a title like this? Actually, as you’ll see in a moment, the title is both appropriate and frighteningly profound.

You see, in Jewish lore, a distinguished rabbi magically conjured up out of clay from the earth a brutish creature—the golem—that the rabbi dispatched upon the world to vanquish the enemies of the Jewish people.

According to the legend—which later inspired Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein—the Golem got out of control and proved even a threat to Jewish survival. In fact, a most real (and dangerous) golem exists on our planet today.

Cast out of the element uranium, this Golem is—as Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, described it—Israel’s “sacred” nuclear weapon, the primary source of trouble in the precarious realm of atomic proliferation.

The nuclear “golem” is the bizarre and dangerous cornerstone of Israel’s national security policy. Development of a nuclear arsenal was the foundation of Israeli policy from the beginning.
In The Golem, Piper examines not only the fanatical nature of this nuclear policy, but also the ongoing danger of political and civil instability in Israel where anti-Christian and anti-Muslim forces are rising to power.

In Israel today the strange and frightening Talmud based legend of the golem remains a much-celebrated force in popular culture, inextricably linked to Israel’s national security mindset and thinking. There is even a popular cartoon strip, featuring a super hero known as “the golem,” who is said to have spawned when an Israeli was exposed to nuclear radiation from Israel’s officially “non-existent” nuclear weapons program. And now this “golem” is on the loose, defending Israel from its enemies.

Piper’s new book is also a comprehensive overview of the role in which Israel and its lobby in America manipulated the United States into the disastrous no-win war in Iraq and how, even today—despite the recent National Intelligence Estimate which says that Iran abandoned its nuclear program in 2003—Israel and its lobby are still pushing the United States into a war against Iran.

No review of this fantastic new work can do it justice. You need to read this—the one book that could help stop Israel from getting the United States—and the world—involved in a horrifying global holocaust .

To get your copy of this new book from Piper—which is flying off the shelves at AFP—send $25 to AFP, 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, #100,Washington, D.C. 20003. For those of you who send $50 or more, Piper will personally inscribe and number your own copy. Include a neatly printed sheet with the text and name you’d like Mike to use on your inscription. For even faster service, call AFP at 1-888-699-NEWS toll free and use Visa or MasterCard.


(Issue #52, December 24, 2007 American Free Press)

Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003

Whilst always pointing the NWO finger elsewhere, Iraq, Iran, N korea ect, it is well known the Isaelis have had the bomb a longtime.
Nationally they own the USA not vicea versa.
Their atrocities in the mid east is genocide against the Palistinians.
Behinds the scenes histroy, the Balfour Act ect has created a monster .

[cheeb]

Unfortunatley Lizzy,
You cannot have it both ways,
The Belflour Declaration preceeded the holocaust,
So what came first,
The Chicken or the Egg???

What was the Balfour Declaration?
The British pledge that formally committed the British to the Zionist cause, was the Balfour Declaration of November 1917, an instrument created after the Husayn-McMahon Correspondence and the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

Before the emergence of David Lloyd George as prime minister and Arthur James Balfour as foreign secretary in December 1916, the Liberal Herbert Asquith government had viewed a Jewish entity in Palestine as detrimental to British strategic aims in the Middle East. Lloyd George and his Tory supporters, however, saw British control over Palestine as much more attractive than the proposed British-French condominium. Since the time of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine had taken on increased strategic importance because of its proximity to the Suez Canal, where the British garrison had increased to 300,000 men, and because of a planned British attack on Ottoman Syria originating from Egypt. Lloyd George was determined, as early as March 1917, that Palestine should become British and that he would rely on its conquest by British troops to obtain the abrogation of the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region. Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. Fears were also voiced in the Foreign Office that if Britain did not come out in favor of a Jewish entity in Palestine the Germans would preempt them. Finally, both Lloyd George and Balfour were devout Christians who attached great religious significance to the proposed reinstatement of the Jews in their ancient homeland.

The negotiations for a Jewish entity were carried out by Chiam Weizmann, who greatly impressed Balfour and maintained important links with the British media. In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective. The letter added the provision of "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Sources and additional reading on this topic:
Israel Country Study: World War I: Diplomacy and Intrigue
Behind the Balfour Declaration
Eyeless in Zion
The Balfour Declaration
A.J. Balfour Defense of the Palestine Mandate, 1922

[zarah]

I look forward to the Phantom answering you.

Or any of his 'newly arrived army'.

They seem very quite when their 'leader' is not around.

See also a great post by dogsmilk - and by cheeb in political
cover-up section.

If you're referring to me, which I think in part you may be, I won't debate with someone who refuses to discuss facts and instead character assisnates. This is an amazing forum with too many intelligent views to waste time with that kind of thing for me.

I do take issue with one point of your last post though, people who've only just joined the site have the right to have their opinion heard as much as people who've been here since the very beginning and everything in between.

[zarah]

zarah, what you have said is TOO REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT. These ignorant Shabboz Goy like Seanx, Adimon, and the rest are conditioned for life! YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ENERGY WADING IN SHIT WITH THESE TURDS! Leave them to themselves and watch them devour eachother!!!! When you cannot answer an argument...attack the person making it! This is ALL they have done in months of similar debate! It is because it is all they have!

Agreed :p

[zarah]

Unfortunatley Lizzy,
You cannot have it both ways,
The Belflour Declaration preceeded the holocaust,
So what came first,
The Chicken or the Egg???

What was the Balfour Declaration?
The British pledge that formally committed the British to the Zionist cause, was the Balfour Declaration of November 1917, an instrument created after the Husayn-McMahon Correspondence and the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

Before the emergence of David Lloyd George as prime minister and Arthur James Balfour as foreign secretary in December 1916, the Liberal Herbert Asquith government had viewed a Jewish entity in Palestine as detrimental to British strategic aims in the Middle East. Lloyd George and his Tory supporters, however, saw British control over Palestine as much more attractive than the proposed British-French condominium. Since the time of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine had taken on increased strategic importance because of its proximity to the Suez Canal, where the British garrison had increased to 300,000 men, and because of a planned British attack on Ottoman Syria originating from Egypt. Lloyd George was determined, as early as March 1917, that Palestine should become British and that he would rely on its conquest by British troops to obtain the abrogation of the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

In the new British strategic thinking, the Zionists appeared as a potential ally capable of safeguarding British imperial interests in the region. Furthermore, as British war prospects dimmed throughout 1917, the War Cabinet calculated that supporting a Jewish entity in Palestine would mobilize America's influential Jewish community to support United States intervention in the war and sway the large number of Jewish Bolsheviks who participated in the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to keep Russia in the war. Fears were also voiced in the Foreign Office that if Britain did not come out in favor of a Jewish entity in Palestine the Germans would preempt them. Finally, both Lloyd George and Balfour were devout Christians who attached great religious significance to the proposed reinstatement of the Jews in their ancient homeland.

The negotiations for a Jewish entity were carried out by Chiam Weizmann, who greatly impressed Balfour and maintained important links with the British media. In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration. This document declared the British government's "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations," viewed with favor "the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People," and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective. The letter added the provision of "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Sources and additional reading on this topic:
Israel Country Study: World War I: Diplomacy and Intrigue
Behind the Balfour Declaration
Eyeless in Zion
The Balfour Declaration
A.J. Balfour Defense of the Palestine Mandate, 1922

The Balfour Declaration came into effect while the Ottoman Empire still had control of the region, but the British government at the time felt that a 'Jewish homeland' would further the British mandate in the area.

It 1939 the British published a 'white paper' in which they declared that it was not the British policy that Palestine was the become a Jewish state, which resulted in Jews targeting British and American interests in the area.

In 1948, and for the first time on record, the British withdrew from Palestine without any transference of power, whilst the Jews declared the emergence of the state of Israel.

A partioned state, with an Arab state and its people being recognised as its citizens with the same human rights as is enjoyed by Jewish Israeli people in the area, is what Arabs thought would be finalised. Instead, Israel has stolen land from Palestine, attacked its people indiscriminately and contravened, with the west's knowledge and apparent blessing, international law time and time again. Each time they are held to account they complain of 'anti semitism'. And why are they permitted to behave it such an appalling way? Because 6 million of their people were murdered by the Nazis in the 'Holocaust' and they're quite sure that the evil west is just waiting for a time to do it all over again.

[seanx]

Nick atoon

QUOTE]zarah, what you have said is TOO REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT. These ignorant Shabboz Goy like Seanx, Adimon, and the rest are conditioned for life! YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ENERGY WADING IN SHIT WITH THESE TURDS! Leave them to themselves and watch them devour eachother!!!! When you cannot answer an argument...attack the person making it! This is ALL they have done in months of similar debate! It is because it is all they have![/QUOTE]

Like flies to dung.

(As least when the above low-life attacks you - you know you're on the
right road. )

Isn't it amazing how anytime there is a thread attacking, for example
the jews - it's the same old faces who always appear.

Always stuck in the same old hate record.

Dogsmilk and Cheeb are right.

You get these anti-jews ( come -on, let's be HONEST. Stop playing
games. Why else would be obsessed with this stuff?) , they come here,
they copy and paste some infor and details they get from the
Holercaust-is-a-myth websites -to show some doubt and confusion but,
of course their real motive is they're just playing the illuminati's game -
of divide and conquer.

They's the 'goodies' - and the others, usually the Jews are the
'baddies'.

Keep people divided and in conflict.

Icke IS SICK AND FUCK TRIED of telling people they - the illuminati
are PLaYING US LIKE A VIOLIN.

However, when these people come here - they are depending on
people in these forums - not knowing much about this issue.

That's why we should be grateful to Dogsmik, Cheeb and Adimon.

These guys are the spammers worst nightmare.

Men with balls who have studied this topic and know what they
are talking about.

Bullshit can only get you so far.

Zarah wrote

I won't debate with someone who refuses to discuss facts and instead character assisnates.

I'm sorry if I character assisinated your hero- Mr Phantom - funny,
I thought being an intelligent girl ( which is obvious from your posts)
you might want to CHALLENGE HIM on his admiration for Mr Hitler
or his belief that the world is 'controlled soley by jews' ( his exact quote)

But seemingly these beliefs don't seem to bother you - not a SINGLE post
about them.

I see you were also able to write a long response about the Balfour Declaration
- yet still seem unable to debate the facts on Icke's
views on this matter.

Since you're on his forum, I thought they might be of interest to you.

[nickatnoon61]

Nick atoon



Like flies to dung.

(As least when the above low-life attacks you - you know you're on the
right road. )

Isn't it amazing how anytime there is a thread attacking, for example
the jews - it's the same old faces who always appear.

Always stuck in the same old hate record.

Dogsmilk and Cheeb are right.

You get these anti-jews ( come -on, let's be HONEST. Stop playing
games. Why else would be obsessed with this stuff?) , they come here,
they copy and paste some infor and details they get from the
Holercaust-is-a-myth websites -to show some doubt and confusion but,
of course their real motive is they're just playing the illuminati's game -
of divide and conquer.

They's the 'goodies' - and the others, usually the Jews are the
'baddies'.

Keep people divided and in conflict.

Icke IS SICK AND FUCK TRIED of telling people they - the illuminati
are PLaYING US LIKE A VIOLIN.

However, when these people come here - they are depending on
people in these forums - not knowing much about this issue.

That's why we should be grateful to Dogsmik, Cheeb and Adimon.

These guys are the spammers worst nightmare.

Men with balls who have studied this topic and know what they
are talking about.

Bullshit can only get you so far.

Zarah wrote



I'm sorry if I character assisinated your hero- Mr Phantom - funny,
I thought being an intelligent girl ( which is obvious from your posts)
you might want to CHALLENGE HIM on his admiration for Mr Hitler
or his belief that the world is 'controlled soley by jews' ( his exact quote)

But seemingly these beliefs don't seem to bother you - not a SINGLE post
about them.

I see you were also able to write a long response about the Balfour Declaration
- yet still seem unable to debate the facts on Icke's
views on this matter.

Since you're on his forum, I thought they might be of interest to you.[/QUOTE]
They spit in our faces!




“This fictitious conflict between the Zionists and the liberal Jews soon disgusted me, for it was false through and through.”
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf




By John Kaminski
skylax@comcast.net



Do you share in the lie that you live in a free world and can say and do anything you want?

And do you believe in your government’s right to limit what you say in the interest of “national security’? It’s a difficult decision when you know your government is criminal.

There are certain things you cannot say, you know, or funny things happen to you. Not so funny, really. For saying the “wrong” thing, you can easily lose your livelihood or your life.

In the ancient streets of Jerusalem, fundamentalist Israeli Jews routinely spit on those with different beliefs. Especially favorite targets are visiting clergymen such as priests, preachers and imams who visit their Holy Land to venerate the history of their own holy books. And what do these pilgrims get for their effort? Jews spit in their faces.

See http://ww4report.com/node/1046

This is the message Jews have conveyed to humanity from time immemorial. This is what the Jews are saying to the world. In their newspapers. In their movies. In their school curricula. They spit in our faces. They pornographize our culture. They destroy our world.

Sick snobs stuck in the poison plastic of New York Times reality glower in a stupor of sanctimonious superiority while the illegal and immoral underpinnings of their predatory wealth disintegrate. Think about all those millions of people who have been unfairly murdered in the past few years. All of sudden, people are putting the words "9/11" and "Israel" together.

Who else could it have been? American leaders wouldn't kill their own people, would they? How much money would it take? And who has that kind of money? Maybe the people who invented and control money, eh? That would be the Jews.

The great hurdle the American people have yet to surpass is realizing that the mass murder of 3,000 people in New York City in 2001 was CLEARLY an inside job, covered over by intense media blather about terrorism with not a whiff of a story that these events were planned and executed by deep-cover intelligence agencies, using robotic Blackwater-type operatives.

No one in the so-called real world recognizes this reality officially. You don’t hear this on TV. No politician dares utter a word about it.

Yet they all know. I’m not saying they all knew it was going to happen, but I am saying some of them did. And I’m saying now that ALL of them (everyone in Congress) KNOWS that elements of the Bush White House, driven by its powerful Israeli presence, engineered the whole operation as a sadistic and tragic way to further unfairly defame Arabs, by painting them (and impersonating them) as the ultimate terrorists. It’s pretty clear who all these people are, and, by the way, they’re still in power. In fact, all of the current presidential candidates except (maybe) Ron Paul are in on the scam.

Which speaks volumes about the condition, the receptivity, the powers of perception, and the conscience of the American people. These faculties must be severely impaired to have attained this level of mechanical barbarity being imposed on all these bogus pretenses throughout the world.

Have you pondered the plight of our soldiers lately? The diseases they come home with, you realize, are made in the states by Jewish scientists (remember Oppenheimer?) for the purpose of destroying the lives of every living thing these weapons touch.

Yet you sallie on. Some of you think the presence of Neturei Karta, those bearded Jews who claim to be against Israel, demonstrates that the Jewish community is diverse in opinion and objective. I submit that it is not — that it is hellbent on subjugating the entire race of humans into what they call "goyim," who are livestock puppets in this theater of the absurd that they have commandeered.

This is the only accurate template that adequately describes what is happening to our world.

Death is their product, and hate is their engine. Self-hating Jews are programmed to kill. By their beloved holy book, The Talmud, and their greatest philosopher, Maimonides.

To kill us.

Because they hate themselves.

Which is why they go around spitting on people.

And why they must, according to their programming, destroy the world.

To try to convey to you the danger to our future, I must overcome several obstacles.

First is your conditioning, your "holocaust programming." Remember that nowhere in the memoirs of Churchill, DeGaulle and Eisenhower, the three Western leaders in World War II, is there any mention of a Jewish holocaust or Germans gassing anybody. The Holocaust programming came during the 1960s with the JFK assassination, after which aid to Israel skyrocketed. Writer Elie Wiesel's book "Night" later won him the Nobel Prize, despite proof that his work was hysterical fiction. Making soap from the skin of Jews. Indeed. Or the Auschwitz gas chamber that was built two years after the war ended.

Jews don't believe in freedom of speech. They prove it every day with their Holocaust laws, which prohibit discussion of a certain topic because it is “offensive” to them. And because it is a lie. The very fact they have to make laws preventing discussion of this topic AUTOMATICALLY means it IS a lie.

The second part is tougher to comprehend. Every particle of information you have ingested throughout your lifetime has been transmitted to you through Jewish censors — writers, publishers, distributors, policymakers — that has shaped you in its image.

This means that you are partly screened from seeing certain subjects. Money and religion are two of these.

But more importantly, we all grew up believing in an American dream. It was the basis of our society, if I remember correctly from my childhood. We believed in honesty, and thrift. We were disciplined, creative, and respectful. We wanted the best for everyone. This was the American way.

But it's not now. And you can guess — in fact, in your gut, you know — why this has happened.

Our decency has been terribly eroded, and we no longer believe in the future, at least not in the way we used to.

Why it has happened is full spectrum Jewish influence through ...

• Psychiatry, which remains technically a science that doesn't exist, turned us all into neurotic drug addicts, and literally afraid of our own shadows.

• Education, the redaction of all ancient literature through Jewish publishers. Foremost is the Scofield Bible, which trains evangelicals for obedience to Israel in an armageddon programmed to occur.

• Commerce, the distribution networks for virtually all products are all Jewish. The CEOs of most production companies are Jewish. The medical and legal establishments are Jewish. And the result, as in both medicine and the law, is the production for profit of products that are poisonous, ultimately meant to harm people.

• Finance, the Federal Reserve has skimmed half the profits from the American workforce for the last CENTURY! It was a Jewish invention, just like the two World Wars, just like the constant wars happening now.

• Media: Beloved songwriter Irving Berlin was sued for monopolizing American music in 1927, and what we have had are completely Jewish music and movies ever since. Didn't you love Milton Berle? But what was he really telling you? That you’re a buffoon, with no power over anything.

• Politics: Aid to Israel skyrocketed after the Kennedy assassination, and Vietnam lingered on. The Holocaust legend was invented and publicized. Drugs were practically legalized. And then, through TV, the great dumbing down began in earnest. But this game is almost 150 years old, and the Jewish consolidation of our false reality is practically complete.

Are you the adults your parents hoped you would be?

Well, maybe. But one thing's sure. This isn't the world they hoped you would live in.

The words of Eustace Mullins forever ring in my ears. "You will not achieve your dreams because of the presence of the Jew."

And this is what has happened to America 2007.

I suggest the following course of action for gentiles who take exception to the ruination of our beautiful world by a parasitic culture that roams the world subverting honest people with alluring corruption. This is the way the world has always worked, and the only way to hold the line against it is by honest assessment of the chains that bind us to the whim of the superrich, who have created their money out of nothing, and other criminal schemes.

But more than anything else, we need to treat Jews exactly as they treat us.

For starters, let's spit on them. They spit on us, we spit back. Will they use their 500 nuclear weapons? Maybe, maybe not. Jews always get others to do their fighting for them, then they pick up the pieces and conduct mass exterminations later, like they did in Russia, 60 million Christians liquidated in the Gulags, remember? This was a wholly Jewish enterprise, remember? And they controlled Roosevelt, so America approved of all of this, remember?

No, you doubtless don't. Why? Because you have been raised on Jewish history, from CBS to Dr. Spock, from Charlie Chaplin to Michael Eisner. Jewish history doesn’t mention the Armenian genocide (done by Jews), or the great Ukrainian starvation (done by Jews). Nor does official Jewish history ever mention that the initial financing of Adolf Hitler was done by Jews to create a great sacrifice of their own people to prove to the world, as recommended by Zionism inventor Theodore Herzl, that the Jews needed Israel to escape from anti-Semitism.

The world is beginning to finally realize that anti-Semitism is generated by the Jews themselves as a way to conceal their widespread social crimes.

So, let's enforce the very laws by which Jews afflict the Amalek (the rest of the people in the world) and put these insane laws back on the heads of the Jews, where they belong.

For instance,

• Many Palestinian babies die in childbirth while waiting for needless hours in barbed wire enclosures for sadistic Israeli guards to "process their papers" so the mothers can go to a hospital to deliver. So, let's make all Jewish mothers in the U.S. about to give birth wait on a grimy New York City street for 16 hours surrounded by NYPD barbed wire, and let her watch her baby die of neglect while her guards snicker in derision at her tragedy and mutter "one less cockroach to feed".

• Make all Jewish parents in U.S. send their children to spend a month on the streets of Baghdad dressed as a typical Iraqi and see close up what Mossad-trained, U.S.-sponsored Blackwater mercenaries would do to them. It wouldn't even record their names as your children were used as target practice by these Washington-approved sociopaths (which are about to be deployed in the United States). Speculate on what official, Rumsfeld-created U.S. policy toward your young and beautiful daughters would be, and whether the pervs in the White House would get to watch the video later.

• Make all Israeli children under the age of 10 walk through the hills of Lebanon where the Israeli army dropped millions of unexploded cluster bombs for future Lebanese children to discover sometime in the future.

• Make it a capital offense if any Jew defames any other religion, just like the new court in Israel which with U.S. help snatches dissidents from around the world and tortures them before execution.

No law can ever be just if it does not apply to everyone equally. Therefore, all the Holocaust laws are unjust and undefendable because they have been created for the benefit of one group, the group that has pulled the wool over our eyes for centuries, and now is the central obstacle to our healthy evolution.

The goal of all future banking systems must be to criminalize usury. Half the profit of all humanity's labor is sucked out of the real people's economy by psychic vampires who convince us that to kill is to love, and to love is usually an unprofitable venture.

And that's precisely why the world is going down the tubes.

Then ask yourself this question.

Why is it that the only thing Jews are really afraid of is the truth?



John Kaminski is a writer who lives on the Gulf Coast of Florida whose Internet essays have been seen on hundreds of websites around the world. Stay tuned for http://johnkaminski.org/



Postscript: Ever wonder why the Talmud isn’t a best selling book like the Bible? My friend Virginia, who has proven herself in many Internet debates to be an implacable friend of the Jews, nevertheless produced this account of a trial over the truth of the Talmud. She wrote:

It has been frequently alleged on the Jewish side that translations of the disputed passages made by Gentiles are inaccurate and misleading. However, there are numbers of cases in which the matter has been tested in the law courts and the translations upheld as exactly conveying the meaning of the original text.

One of the most notable of these cases was heard in Hungary. Dr. Alfred Luzsensky in 1910 translated about 400 passages from the Talmud into Hungarian; In 1923 Luzsensky was charged in a Government prosecution with 'pornography" and "corruption of public morals" by circulation of his work, which was ordered to be confiscated. Luzensky, however, was acquitted by the Courts and the confiscation suspended. According to Warren Weston's book Father of Lies (Militant Christian Patriots, London, 1938), the Hungarian Court in the course of its judgment said:

The horrors contained in the translation of Alfred Luzensky are without exception found in the Talmud. His translation is accurate, for it renders these passages which are really in the text of the Talmud, in their exact meaning.

The testimony of the court expert, Dr. Kmosko, is also of interest. According to Erfurt "World Service" of June 1, 1937, he said: "

To the first question asked by the court as to whether Luzensky's translation corresponds to the original Talmud, I must answer with definite 'Yes'. The underlying principle of the Gemara is that the non-Jews are not human beings, but beasts.'

In 1932 Dr. Luzsensky published a German translation of his book, and in Warren Weston's book referred to above appear a number of passages from the Talmud which he states are taken from this German translation of Luzsensky. The texts are in agreement with what has appeared in many other publications. The following are typical specimens:

"The Jew is to say on Purim Day: ... cursed be all non-Jews, blessed be all Jews." (Orach Chaim, 660, 16).

"Theft, robbery and rape of a beautiful woman and similar deeds are forbidden to every Gentile toward another Gentile and also toward a Jew. But they are allowed to a Jew against a non-Jew." (Sanhedrin, 57 a; also Abodah Zara, 13b).

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." (Aboda Zara 4b).

"Those who do not own the Torah must all be killed. Whoever has power to kill them openly with the sword, if not let him use artifices until they are all done away with." (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 425, 5).

"If a Jew has a suit with a non-Jew, you (Jewish judge) will take the Jew's side as far as possible, and you will say to the non-Jew: Thus it is according to your law. If neither of these alternatives is possible, then you must cheat." (Bab Kama, 113a.

"It is allowed to cheat a Gentile and take usury from him". (Baba Mezia, 61 a.)

"God has commanded us to take usury from the Gentile and lend him only when he consents to repay with usury, in order that we do not create profit for him, even if there accrued no profit to us." (Sepher Mizwoth, 73 a)

"A thing lost by a Gentile may not only be kept by the man who found it, but it is even forbidden to give it back to him." (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 159, 1.)

"A Jew may rob a Gentile, that is, he may cheat him over a bill if unlikely to be detected." (Choschen ha-Mischpat, 348, 1.)

The following quotations from the Talmud appear in other reputable publications:

"You are human beings but the nations of the world are not human beings, but beasts." (Baba Mecia, 114, 6.)

"On the house of the Goy (non-Jew) one looks as on a fold of cattle." (Tosefta, Erubin, viii.)

"The estates of the Goy are like wilderness, who first settles in them has a right to them. (Baba Batra, 54 b.)

"The property of the Goys is like a thing without a master." (Schulchan Aruch: Choschen ha-Mischpat, 156, 5.)

"Who took an oath in the presence of the Goys, the robbers, and the custom-house officer, is not responsible." (Tosefta Szebnot, 11.)

"A human form is only given to those who are not Jews in order that the Jews may not be waited upon by beasts." (Schene-tuchoth-habberith.)

"If a Jew can deceive idolaters by making them think he is a follower of their cult, it is permitted to do." (Yore de'ah, 157, 2.),

"One should and must make false oath, when the Goys (non-Jews) ask if our books contain anything against them. Then we are bound to state on oath that there is nothing like that." (Szaalot-Utszabot. The Book of Jore d'a., 17.)

"Every Goy who studies Talmud, and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die: (Sanhedrin, 59 a, Aboda Zara, 8-6, Szagiga, 13.)

"To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all the Jews…" (Book of Libbre David, 37.)

As has been already stated, there is much controversy as to how such passages as have been cited above are regarded by Jews to-day. The London "Free Press" of February, 1938, for instance, printed an extract from the "Jewish Chronicle" of January 3 last reporting the newly-installed president of the Council of Orthodox Hebrew Congregations in London as saying "his guide would always be the Schulcan Aruch." In Warren Weston's book, Father of Lies, it stated that Professor Cohen, as sworn expert before the Court at Marburg in April. 1888, testified that, "The religious Jew considers himself bound by the whole contents of the Talmud."

If you have the intellectual and moral courage to have read this far, then you finally know what we’re up against: the programming of an evil clique that has captured our collective mind. This undetected method of control guarantees that not only will you never achieve your dreams, but that you will lose your life for geopolitical reasons that you will never completely comprehend.

The ONLY chance to avoid this ignominious fate to understand the Jewish plan for the enslavement of the world and eradication of the unwanted population, and to stop it.

The hour is getting late ...

[zarah]

Seanx,

Apart from my dad I have no heroes, or were you being facetious? ;)

With regard to debating with Phantom, his opinion on Hitler doesn't mean jot to me, and why should it? We all have views, we all have opinions, if he thinks he's a great leader, a wonderful man or an icon of virtue, that's completely up to him. It just doesn't alter the facts of the official story of the holocaust as he stated them.

Although I wouldn't declare myself at all knowledgeable on the subject of David icke, I've read enough of his books to be aware of his documented opinions on certain matters, this included and agree with him to a certain degree.

Although Zionism preceded Israel by some 50 years, it is a Zionist ideology and the holocaust as it is recorded is responsible for the creation of a racist state which is culpable for the most appalling ongoing human tradegy of the last 60 years. As we question who murdered JFK and why, as we discuss the NWO and its agenda, as we debate the events in Pakistan, so it is right that we debate and question the holocaust without referring to Icke and his opinions at every turn. To only discuss Icke's opinions as our own is exactly the same as discussing the views of tptb, except we become sheeple of another order.

[seanx]

Ater nickatnoon6 long copy-and paste effort.......

like I said.....that's all they have to offer.....

And of course, the usual warning:

The ONLY chance to avoid this ignominious fate to understand the Jewish plan for the enslavement of the world and eradication of the unwanted population, and to stop it.

The hour is getting late ...

Why do you need the illuminati - why you have guys like Nickatoon
around?

Zarah wrote:
Although I wouldn't declare myself at all knowledgeable on the subject of David icke, I've read enough of his books to be aware of his documented opinions on certain matters, this included and agree with him to a certain degree.

Although Zionism preceded Israel by some 50 years, it is a Zionist ideology and the holocaust as it is recorded is responsible for the creation of a racist state which is culpable for the most appalling ongoing human tradegy of the last 60 years. As we question who murdered JFK and why, as we discuss the NWO and its agenda, as we debate the events in Pakistan, so it is right that we debate and question the holocaust without referring to Icke and his opinions at every turn. To only discuss Icke's opinions as our own is exactly the same as discussing the views of tptb, except we become sheeple of another order.__________________

Hands-on-heart, you honestly believe this thread by Phantom is
about the Holercaust?

But I sorry, still find it suspicious that on at least 4-5 occasions
on this thread you ask me to challenge Mr Phantom on his
facts, and not to have a go at him.

That's fair enough.

Yet, it's quite extraordinary for such an intelligent
writer as you obviously are - you never once CHALLENGED Mr Phantom
on his quite sick nazi views that Hitler was a great leader or that the
world is controlled by jews.

They didn't seem to cause you any bother - yet you continually
insisted that I personally answer Phantom's holercaust views.
it seems holercaust denial is more important to you than this jews
rule the world hate

That's the only reason I was quite hard on you in certain posts.


When I say we should debate icke - I don't mean another version
of the 'story' - another historical 'viewpoint' of who did what
and when?

And it doesn't mean agreeing with him?

It means going beyond all the 'stories' - going to the 'forces
and energies' that are behind all these 'stories' and energize them
with their twisted, hateful frequencies.

The jews and the Arabs is just another 'story'.

When that is solved - they will create another 'story' - they
already are.

You can see it now in the making: us .....and the Muslims.
The West v East.

They're creating just another 'time-line'.

Another shared 'reality construct' that will drag us all in ---to
create the fever, control frequencies they feed off.

They want us to believe there is only one reality which we are
powerless to change or escape from.

But you can switch to another reality..almost instantly

And when a critical mass of people gain THAT awareness
- consensual reality - what we know as everyday reality will change
just an instantly.

But we will never discover this..because, like people spending all time
watching soap operas - all out energies are being directed and
focussed by people like phantom into fightng over all these old
battles

Same old agenda.

[zarah]

I don't challenge Phantom on his views because they don't interest me. If they did, I would. They interest you, so you challenge him and more power to you for making that choice.

Hand on heart I don't care if he has a hidden agenda, why do you?

With regard to asking you to address his points rather than attack his character, it's because I simply believe once you stop attacking the message and instead start on the messenger, you lose the debate. Surely if you truly believe that Phantom is talking nonsense his posts should be easy to dispute.

I think that perhaps you agree that we have all been mislead about the holocaust but dislike what you believe to be Phantom's motives. You've obviously been here longer than I have, so you've had more time to form an opinion on him.

To go past all of the 'stories' means to accede that people have died and will continue to die needlessly, and that's not the kind of person I am. We're all on our own personal journeys towards becoming more enlightened and this is where I am, and there is where you are, it's not a bad thing or a good thing - it's just a thing.

[cheeb]

Zarah,
I just thought i would pick out 10 random lines,
From Nicks post,

No, you doubtless don't. Why? Because you have been raised on Jewish history, from CBS to Dr. Spock, from Charlie Chaplin to Michael Eisner. Jewishhistory doesn’t mention the Armenian genocide (done by Jews),, or the great Ukrainian starvation (done by Jews). Nor does official Jewish history ever mention that the initial financing of Adolf Hitler was done by Jews to create a great sacrifice of their own people to prove to the world, as recommended by Zionism inventor Theodore Herzl, that theJews needed Israel to escape from anti-Semitism.

The world is beginning to finally realize that anti-Semitism is generated by the Jews themselves as a way to conceal their widespread social crimes.

So, let's enforce the very laws by which Jews afflict the Amalek (the rest of the people in the world) and put these insane laws back on the heads of the Jews, where they belong.

For instance,

Can you spot some sort of pattern here???

[harx bhullar]

The holocaust was real. It's just jews that never happened..

[zarah]

Zarah,
I just thought i would pick out 10 random lines,
From Nicks post,

No, you doubtless don't. Why? Because you have been raised on Jewish history, from CBS to Dr. Spock, from Charlie Chaplin to Michael Eisner. Jewishhistory doesn’t mention the Armenian genocide (done by Jews),, or the great Ukrainian starvation (done by Jews). Nor does official Jewish history ever mention that the initial financing of Adolf Hitler was done by Jews to create a great sacrifice of their own people to prove to the world, as recommended by Zionism inventor Theodore Herzl, that theJews needed Israel to escape from anti-Semitism.

The world is beginning to finally realize that anti-Semitism is generated by the Jews themselves as a way to conceal their widespread social crimes.

So, let's enforce the very laws by which Jews afflict the Amalek (the rest of the people in the world) and put these insane laws back on the heads of the Jews, where they belong.

For instance,



B]Can you spot some sort of pattern here???[/B]


And on his personal journey, that's where Nick is ;)

[cheeb]

The holocaust was real. It's just jews that never happened..

They should have become David Blaines,
They do a great vanishing Act

;)

[zarah]

David Blaine's the worst magician in the world so that's a terrible analogy ;)

[cheeb]

David Blaine's the worst magician in the world so that's a terrible analogy ;)

Thats the spirit Zarah,
We'll satirise these monsters out of power,
The Emperors New Clothes and all that!!!

;)

[seanx]

Zarah wrote:

And on his personal journey, that's where Nick is

'Nick' is on his own personal journey!

How touching.

Here we are in the 21st century - wasting our time on
people who still believe the bloody jews are still behind all our
problems.

Icke must wonder why he fucking bothers.

But fair play to you Zarah.

Your continual defense of all our resident race haters is
touching.......

If one was cynical enough, one might suspect you really share
their views, but unlike them, haven't the courage to come out
with it.

But.....I wonder how 'Nick' is progressing on his 'journey'.

Over the past few days, he called one of our female posters a 'whore'
simply because she had the bad grace to disagree with him.

And last night, he threatened to kill....and 'terminate' another
member.

Anyway, good luck to 'Nick' on his 'journey'!

[nickatnoon61]

Zarah wrote:



'Nick' is on his own personal journey!

How touching.

Here we are in the 21st century - wasting our time on
people who still believe the bloody jews are still behind all our
problems.

Icke must wonder why he fucking bothers.

But fair play to you Zarah.

Your continual defense of all our resident race haters is
touching.......

If one was cynical enough, one might suspect you really share
their views, but unlike them, haven't the courage to come out
with it.

But.....I wonder how 'Nick' is progressing on his 'journey'.

Over the past few days, he called one of our female posters a 'whore'
simply because she had the bad grace to disagree with him.

And last night, he threatened to kill....and 'terminate' another
member.

Anyway, good luck to 'Nick' on his 'journey'!

seanx(alias JewArselicker) Yes, can you imagine the gall of me asking if nuit (Crowley backer)is a whore because she shows all the signs and symptoms,from her avatar, signature, and posts,Damaged Brainn satanist, and Crowley backer. But fluoridated brain , and David icke Tagnut seanx, obviously cannot think for himself. I am here to find the truth and also to let these low-life know, what I think of them. They will not run rampant without resistance from me. When the tide turns and the truth of the Jews/Zionists conspiracy becomes evident, even to dumbed down followers/lackeys like seanx, just watch him try to twist and squirm to the winning side! I am proud of my stand against low life scum, and I take nothing back about what I said about them!

It is really tragic how Jews and Zionists still choose to follow the violent path of deceit, lies, propaganda, misinformation, brain washing and distortion of Truth in order to perpetuate the Myth of the Israeli Empire and its tyrannical Control and hunger for power not only in the Middle East but also throughout the so called civilised Western world but especially the USA/Canada and UK.

This exchange proves the fallacy these ignorant Jews and their followers still insist in believing in to continue their Supremacist reign over the rest of us mere Gentile Mortals.

When an Entire Nation is occupied militarily and its people subjugated and imprisoned in one huge GULAG, the largest CONCENTRATION CAMP in the world run on APARTHEID Doctrines, one can only but expect genuine and legitimate RESISTANCE just as Europe did against its illegal Occupier during WW1 and WW2. They did not sit back on their laurels or enjoy afternoon tea and coffee with their OPPRESSORS and JAILORS- they RESISTED and found every which way at their disposal to rid their Nations of these infamous Occupiers.

Palestine will continue its long suffering Resistance to rid its Nation and its People from these Occupiers and it will one day free itself from Jewish Israeli Bondage, free their people from the shackles, the Torture Camps in Israeli prisons hidden in the Negev desert , knock down its Apartheid Concrete Wall, and once and for all remove the stifling suffocating NOOSE that ISRAEL has subjected Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq to over these last 6-7 traumatic decades!! and the World Jewry will be forced to make a conscious decision to face reality and see the Ugly Monster they have been pining for and giving sucker to all these horrible years. The Middle East and indeed the World cannot and must not live in a world devoid of civilised and internationally recognised Moral and Ethical codes of behaviour which tragically for Palestinians, the West has chosen to turn a blind eye to for the sake of Eretz Israel and its mythical dream of an Israel with its Talmudic Temple that has nothing to do with God and His Teachings but is based entirely on Dogma and doctrines written by successive power hungry Rabbis.
That is Israel's reality and it is Evil personified.

late Prime Minister of Israel, Menechem Begin - 1977-1983 - :
"Our race (the Jews) is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

World Peace will never come into Being as long as Israel is allowed to exist at the expense of millions of innocent souls who have been sacrificed for the Talmudic Empire that preaches Racism and Supremacism as they see themselves as Divine and go even further and believe themselves to be greater than God or as one Rabbi once stated blasphemously, that
God owed the Jews an apology' which is why He allowed them the creation of Israel when they had previously been banned from re-creating Israel until such time as it is stated in the Torah, that 6 million Jews are sacrificed!!!! yes, it is actually in their Torah- only after such time ass 6 m Jews are sacrificed can they be permitted to 'return to Israel"!!

Everyday the jews show the world a new reason to hate and despise them.

"The worst thing about shooting kids is they are faster and smaller
than the old women. It takes more bullets to hit them." Israeli
soldiers reply when asked why they shoot children.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.


"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.
It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online


and from their Talmud supposedly a 'religious' book":

All Gentile children are animals.” ( Yebamoth, 98a.); The gentiles are outside the protection of the Law and God has exposed their money to Israel.” (Baba Kamma, 37-b.); “God created them in the form of men for the glory of Israel. But Akum (non-Jews) were created for the sole end of ministering unto them (the Jews) day and night. Nor can they ever be relieved from this service. It is becoming to the son of a king (an Israelite) that animals in their natural form, and animals in the form of human beings should minister unto him. ( Midrasch talpioth, fol. 225d; “the sexual intercourse of a Goi is like that of a beast.” (Sanhedrin, 74-b, Tosephot).

If you kill one person, it is murder.
If you kill a hundred thousand, it is foreign policy.”

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck
To: C
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:31 AM
Subject: What is the PLAN ? ? ?

Israel has a PLAN. We can only guess what that plan is. All we can do is look at the FACTS.

Israel has over 400 Nuclear Weapons according to the best intelligence sources. Now what would Israel do with 400 Atomic Bombs ?

Well 5 bombs could wipe out the entire Middle East leaving 70% of the world's oil in Israeli hands.

Well 15 more bombs could wipe out all the Europe "enemies" they may like to destroy.

That leaves South America. I don't think they would want to bomb that place. So what's left ? ? ?
The United States ? You bet the United States. Remember the USS Liberty.

Israel can hit all the targets in the Middle East and Europe from their bases in Israel. But The United States can not be hit from there.

Israel solved that problem by buying three (3) brand new submarines from Germany equiped with missles launchers loaded with Nuclear Warheads that could reach anywhere in the United States.
Why does this tiny nation that is under threat from NO ONE need all this destructive power unless they intend to use it. Believe me, they MUST have a plan.
Kind regards, Chuck Brucks

[nickatnoon61]

Mate, "Jesus luv" as commonly dispensed is nothing but "opium for the masses" that renders them docile. Had the people in the West understood their Jewish problem half as well as the Palestinians, for example, understand theirs, the problem would have been solved by now. John Kaminski, as always, is right on the dot with his analysis. His ideas for action, however, are a purely emotional rhetoric. You need to begin with a frontal attack against the well-established taboos, for which purpose you need to CULTIVATE CONTEMPT. You won't be game enough to take on an enemy whom you regard as "very powerful". You need to visualize him at the bottom of the gutter long before you are actually able to deposite him there. As things stand now, an average Westerner is worse off than an average half-starved Palestinian -- because, in his mind, he is nothing but a Jew's slave. See if the text below mightn't be of some help.

Criminal Contrasts

Gypsy –

Reads your palm and tells you your “fortune”.

Jewpsy –

Reads your palm and charges you a fortune.

Gypsy –

Picks your pockets.

Jewpsy –

Picks your pockets and robs your Treasury, as well.

Gypsy –

Peddles “magic potions”.

Jewpsy –

Peddles “magic potions”, as well as billions of dollars-worth of “legal” drugs.

Gypsy –

Runs Punch and Judy show, while picking your pockets.

Jewpsy –

Runs your media, government, ‘jew-diciary’ and what not, while picking your pockets and robbing your Treasury.

Gypsy –

Gets drunk and stabs someone to death.

Jewpsy –

Gets drunk with power, greed and paranoia, tricks you into a trillion-dollar war, robs your Treasury more than ever before and calls you a traitor, an “anti-Semite” and a terrorist collaborator, if you dare to question his methods and motives -- while, at the same time, generously pouring televisual praise upon his own fellow-tribesmen for their “courageous opposition to war”…

E.g. –

The obnoxious Jewpsy billionaire Rich Pratt, known to some as “der Judenfuehrer”, stole over a billion dollars from the Australian consumers -- and got off with a $36million fine. And for a few million dollars more paid to the Lib/Lab politicians not to pass an appropriate anti-corruption law, this vile thieving Jewpsy stayed out of jail, as well. Not to mention that those millions of dollars that he donated to his kosher apartheid in Palestine went into financing any number of premeditated murders of the legitimate Palestinian property owners, whose only fault was that of having their property coveted by the Jews.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why millions of Islamists are day-dreaming of killing a Yank -- or anyone they could mistake for a Yank?

A. Inject any Jew with truth serum and get the exact answer -- “Israel”!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How can an Infidel die for “Allah” ?

A. Join the US State Dept and get posted to Iraq.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Holocaust is Israel’s No 1 propaganda weapon.” -- Dr Bill Rubinstein (!)

“The Jews never tell the truth.” -- John Kaminski
“The Jew is a great master of lies.” -- Schopenhauer

“The Jews are at the root of all evil.” -- Mikis Theodorakis

“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” -- Tom Paine

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Rosenbergs Murdered by Their Own Cabal

The nuclear holocausts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki couldn’t have happened, had it not been for the Jews, as the Manhattan Project wouldn’t have come about without the urging of the Relativity Jew Einstein and three other “atomic” Jews -- all of them bent on “racial revenge” against Germany. And having put the nuclear genie at the disposal of Uncle Sam, the Jews hurried to share it with their favourite Fuehrer -- Comrade Stalin. (In fact, they’ve been spying for the KGB even before the KGB was known to be in existence.) And they let the Rosenbergs FRY, rather than let them talk -- and avoid the electric chair! And this suited both Comrade Stalin and the kosher cabal just fine! Dead Rosenbergs told no tales -- and posthumously went on to serve as “Judeo-Marxist martyrs” executed by the “anti-Semitic WASP establishment”! (“Anti-Semitism is indispensable to them for the management of their lesser brethren.” -- The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, “a forgery with amazing prescient power”, according to Henry Makow ) In fact, the only reason why the Rosenbergs got themselves electrocuted is because they were silly enough to trust their Jew lawyers and their KGB handlers -- and swallowed the kosher/KGB bait of the not-so-likely “last minute reprieve” and an even less likely “retrial”! And exactly the same Jew lawyer types that had no slightest compunction about letting the Rosenbergs fry in the electric chair are now busy mass-marketing the “chimneys of Auschwitz”!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Australia-First

If this message was sent in error, please, reply UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject.

Z <kocmoc@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi, John!
This is not true!
This was just little rain!
Do not blame innocent victims or many accusations are pending and ready!
Jezus luvvvvs us and protects!
J.

----- Original Message -----

[megafish33]

seanx(alias JewArselicker) Yes, can you imagine the gall of me asking if nuit (Crowley backer)is a whore because she shows all the signs and symptoms,from her avatar, signature, and posts,Damaged Brainn satanist, and Crowley backer. But fluoridated brain , and David icke Tagnut seanx, obviously cannot think for himself. I am here to find the truth and also to let these low-life know, what I think of them. They will not run rampant without resistance from me. When the tide turns and the truth of the Jews/Zionists conspiracy becomes evident, even to dumbed down followers/lackeys like seanx, just watch him try to twist and squirm to the winning side! I am proud of my stand against low life scum, and I take nothing back about what I said about them!

Who's ass are you licking? That one guy who said his wife felt "bad vibes" from David Icke? :p

As far as I know seanx has never showed any ultra radical pro-Jewish, pro-Israeli or pro-Zionism views. Just because he doesn't want the death and destruction of all of the apparent genetic mistakes that are Jews doesn't mean his tongue gets anywhere near one. To say such a thing is not only childish, but also makes you look like an idiot.

Where do you get the chutzpah to call nuit a whore? Suddenly anyone who is a "Crowley backer" is a whore? Oh no, that's right... it's her "avatar, signature, and posts" that you have used to claim she is a prostitute.

Wow. Class act nick...

No pussy this time of year for you? Or is it just that you're jealous of a woman that can celebrate her looks even on her internet avatar? Pissed off at mom and dad for the genes they gave ya or what? Or do you not believe in genetics either? Another Jewish Zionist plot probably... lol :rolleyes:

I know!! There's this place in the middle of Southwest Asia where all whores are required to cover their WHOLE BODIES!! How cool is that nick? And if they do show their bodies guess what?? You can beat them! Is that right up your alley or what nick? Only problem is that next door is full of those pesky Jews... and those Jews have an airforce... fuck... guess you can't win em all... :D ;)

Low life scum? Who is that nick? The people on this forum? Jewish people? You're proud of your stand against them, I can agree with you there. Well done mate! But who are the scum you're against? How will you ever rid yourself of all the scum around you?


Israel has a PLAN. We can only guess what that plan is. All we can do is look at the FACTS.

Israel has over 400 Nuclear Weapons according to the best intelligence sources. Now what would Israel do with 400 Atomic Bombs ?

Well 5 bombs could wipe out the entire Middle East leaving 70% of the world's oil in Israeli hands.

Well 15 more bombs could wipe out all the Europe "enemies" they may like to destroy.

That leaves South America. I don't think they would want to bomb that place. So what's left ? ? ?
The United States ? You bet the United States. Remember the USS Liberty.

Israel can hit all the targets in the Middle East and Europe from their bases in Israel. But The United States can not be hit from there.

Israel solved that problem by buying three (3) brand new submarines from Germany equiped with missles launchers loaded with Nuclear Warheads that could reach anywhere in the United States.
Why does this tiny nation that is under threat from NO ONE need all this destructive power unless they intend to use it. Believe me, they MUST have a plan.


HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAH! This one was rich! Israel can just nuke the world and no one will notice or attack back? Lol... I love how we have to look at the "FACTS!" lol!! So Israel could use 5 atomic bombs, "wipe out" the mid-east, and have all "70%" of the worlds oil to themselves. Making them incredibly wealthy right?

Then they're gonna attack EUROPE?? :D What is this guy on? Do you use it? How much for a gram?

And then... lol.... after that... all that... they(the state of Israel!!) will attack AMERICA?? LOL!! I love it! Is this, like, a movie they made in the PLO?

So now... lol.... Israel bought "three (3!! count em!) brand new submarines from Germany..." Now they can bomb the United States? lol They'd be better off coming in from Mexico or hijacking planes... :rolleyes:

Do you realize that if Israel attacks the United States it would seriously put it's life in a state in limbo? Don't be fooled by what is occurring in Iraq... that's not the war... that's an operation. The war is on "terror," which is vague on purpose. Israeli power is no where NEAR that of the United States. Look up the FACTS for yourself instead of believing every village idiot on the internet.

The United States is actually holding Israel's sovereignty back, as well as Israel's military strength. This is for American interests, not necessarily Israeli interests. Israel is NOT the one in control, trust me... And they would not start bombing the US... They have their own worries that come from the East...

[zarah]

Zarah wrote:



'Nick' is on his own personal journey!

How touching.

Here we are in the 21st century - wasting our time on
people who still believe the bloody jews are still behind all our
problems.

Icke must wonder why he fucking bothers.

But fair play to you Zarah.

Your continual defense of all our resident race haters is
touching.......

If one was cynical enough, one might suspect you really share
their views, but unlike them, haven't the courage to come out
with it.

But.....I wonder how 'Nick' is progressing on his 'journey'.

Over the past few days, he called one of our female posters a 'whore'
simply because she had the bad grace to disagree with him.

And last night, he threatened to kill....and 'terminate' another
member.

Anyway, good luck to 'Nick' on his 'journey'!

There's nothing wrong with trying to think good of people now is there?

I can assure you I have no issue with stating my convictions and if I did think Jews were 'behind all the problems' I would say so. I don't. I do think the tenents of most religions are divisive, Judaism being one of them. The religion isn't the issue, the official story of the holocaust is and it's a typical action to move the debate from the story to the people it concerns. Jews are involved, yup, they live in a country which is occupied, but they're victims too. How about a lil defense of the Palestinians in your next reply? Or doesn't their suffering concern you?

[seanx]

Jews are involved, yup, they live in a country which is occupied, but they're victims too. How about a lil defense of the Palestinians in your next reply? Or doesn't their suffering concern you

Fair enough. You really don't get it.

I don't give a fuck about israel. It is you people who are obsessed
with it.

Can you not, for a moment - see beyond it. See beyond the
illuminati-constructed 'story'

To consider there may be a bigger picture, a bigger CONTEXT
in which all this is happening.

My mistake was - seeing that you has joined the dave icke forum,
I thought you might have been interested in viewing this problem
from Icke's WIDER perspective of the Matrix.

You obviously want to stay in the 'storyline'.

Fair enough.


As for nickatnoon61

The usual foul-mouthed abuse you'd expect from a simple-minded
race-hater.

[zarah]

Fair enough. You really don't get it.

I don't give a fuck about israel. It is you people who are obsessed
with it.

Can you not, for a moment - see beyond it. See beyond the
illuminati-constructed 'story'

To consider there may be a bigger picture, a bigger CONTEXT
in which all this is happening.

My mistake was - seeing that you has joined the dave icke forum,
I thought you might have been interested in viewing this problem
from Icke's WIDER perspective of the Matrix.

You obviously want to stay in the 'storyline'.

Fair enough.



Don't bloody condescend!

Whilst I appreciate that you greatly admire David Icke, as do I, I think it's important to understand that he doesn't claim to know all of the answers. It's also important to remain empathetic to the suffering of others, something which I'm sure David would be okay with you feeling. You don't even have to ask him, I'm sure of it. :p

This is indeed David Icke's forum on David Icke dot com, but if you take a gander at the myriad of topics and discussions which are taking place as we speak, members opine from all sides of the spectrum freely and don't simply repeat David's views ad hoc.

[seanx]

Don't bloody condescend!

Whilst I appreciate that you greatly admire David Icke, as do I, I think it's important to understand that he doesn't claim to know all of the answers. It's also important to remain empathetic to the suffering of others, something which I'm sure David would be okay with you feeling. You don't even have to ask him, I'm sure of it.

This is indeed David Icke's forum on David Icke dot com, but if you take a gander at the myriad of topics and discussions which are taking place as we speak, members opine from all sides of the spectrum freely and don't simply repeat David's views ad hoc.

Sorry, my friend, I'm bring this to an end.

You can only say so much.

I said DEBATE IT this OTHER viewpoint.

He doesn't claim to know all the answers

Who said he did?

Maybe if you debated it - it might give you a new perspective.

But...you and your friends have no interest.

Want to stay recycling the past and bring up all the SAME OLD
HATES.

The same old, simplistic solutions.




It's also important to remain empathetic to the suffering of others,

That's a gem.

From the people trying to tell us that holercaust is really no
big deal, because only 1 million innocent people - not the
terrible lie of 6 million!

God bless your empathy!

How do you think 'nick' is getting on in his 'personal journey'

Did you read his last copy and paste job? About how 'we
should split in the faces of jews' and attack them because they want
to control the world?

Lovely people you hang around with.

[zarah]

Sorry, my friend, I'm bring this to an end.

You can only say so much.

I said DEBATE IT this OTHER viewpoint.

Umm, debate it this other viewpoint? I dont get it.


Who said he did?

Your implication


Maybe if you debated it - it might give you a new perspective.

But...you and your friends have no interest.

Want to stay recycling the past and bring up all the SAME OLD
HATES.

The same old, simplistic solutions.

If there was noone living in abject poverty in dismal existences I would agree with you. Unfortunately, Palestinians are. It's too simplistic to ask everyone to move on as if they were nothing more than an M1 car accident and pout and stomp when people refuse.


That's a gem.

From the people trying to tell us that holercaust is really no
big deal, because only 1 million innocent people - not the
terrible lie of 6 million!

God bless your empathy!

How do you think 'nick' is getting on in his 'personal journey'

Did you read his last copy and paste job? About how 'we
should split in the faces of jews' and attack them because they want
to control the world?

Why do you deliberately misspell the word?

I skimmed through it. Nick's like a zillion people in the world with an axe to grind and a group of people to hate.

We do have rather polarised views on history and why it's important. Perhaps youre just much further into your journey than I am, eh? :D

[seanx]

Zarah wrote:,


If there was noone living in abject poverty in dismal existences I would agree with you. Unfortunately, Palestinians are. It's too simplistic to ask everyone to move on as if they were nothing more than an M1 car accident and pout and stomp when people refuse.

I have ended my part in this debate.

Maybe, if you have time some day, you might read Icke's Tales of the
Time Loop and Infinite love...and you'll see where we 're coming from.

Also, you keep mentioning the Palestinians. I presume you're
Muslim.

As if somehow, if you object to people spreading hatred against
the jews - then you must be anti-Palestinians.

What nonsense.

I think what Israel did and is doing to Palestine is a disgrace.

But what is worse is the behaviour of the USA and the evil influence
of the neo-cons and the friends of Israel group who dominate that organization.

OF course, Palestine should have their own state.

But here's a question to people, especially women,
who are always anti-israel.

If you could only live in one country in the Middle East- and the
ONLY choice given was between a relatively free israel or the
prison that is Sadui Aberia - what country would you choose
to live in?

[adimon]

This is getting old.

About 40 million civilians died during the course of WW2. About 5-6 million of them were Jews, only about half of those died in camps, while the other half died in the manner in which you speak....they were killed in their homes, on the street, and starved in ghettos. About 12 million people in all died in the camps, only about a fourth of them were Jewish. They didn't all die in gas chambers, but through more conventional forms of execution as well as good ole fashioned PWO-camp styled malnutrition, dehydration, and disease. More chinese civilians were killed at the hands of the Japanese than Jews. And more Soviet POW's were killed in camps than any other one group.

I didn't get that information from any conspiracy site, or any book professing super secret information. Those are actually the official statistics agreed upon by the majority of historians.

You can't claim to discredit the "official story" when you obviously don't even know what the official story is. The crap you're trying to pass off as the "official line" are lies told by Neo-Nazi groups and Holocaust deniers to make their stupid, far-fetched claims sound more credible....It's a classic strawman tactic.

For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.

As usual DB, you are the voice of reason. I've been away for most of the last fortnight, and this thread has turned into a monster! Thanks to those sensible enough to request a debate from the racists - thanks to you guys I didn't have to trouble myself with removing nick and phantom from the ignore lists in order to read their posts, since they are quoted thoroughly.

I notice that in all the furvor nobody responded to my historiographical points. I didn't really expect them to. And I appreciate the kind words seanx, yes I have studied this period of history.

I really suggest that anyone interested in the holocaust visit the museums, get down the library, and preferably, visit the camps themselves. You cannot conduct historiography from a computer terminal.

I have one question though seanx - what makes you think phantom is a girl? I'm genuinely intrigued. :confused:

[nickatnoon61]

This is the same excuse that Jews have been using for decades. It is the same excuse used for justifying Israel's continued slaughter of innocent Palestinian men, women, and especially children. This same excuse has been shoved down the throats of the American people in part due to the Jewish control of American media. This systematic psychological conditioning has made the American people more ignorant to the truth than ever before. How many time have we heard the saying that the Arabs want to push Israel in the sea, while at the same time the Israelis are dropping two-ton bombs in the center of Palestinian villages killing dozens of innocent people? The Arab states have proposed on numerous times that full recognition of Israel as a Jewish state would be made if the Israelis would end their brutal and illegal occupation. These offers have been made numerous times but never made the American media and we know the reason for that. Peace is the last thing that the Israelis want. They prefer to falsely portray themselves as the victim knowing that their control of American politicians and American media will allow them to successfully accomplish their main objective of ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their homes and eventually confiscating all Palestinian land. When you have all this control lies and deception comes natural to the zionists of the world. Nothing has done more harm to America than what we have with the state of Israel.

[nickatnoon61]

DB yer Username is more than apt!!!! You said....For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.Nick says... David Icke on umpteen occasions has warned, in his books, not to trust the official story of the Hollowcaust, or anything else for that matter! You and Adimon cannot be that stoopid can you???? :confused:

[times7]

This is the same excuse that Jews have been using for decades. It is the same excuse used for justifying Israel's continued slaughter of innocent Palestinian men, women, and especially children. This same excuse has been shoved down the throats of the American people in part due to the Jewish control of American media. This systematic psychological conditioning has made the American people more ignorant to the truth than ever before. How many time have we heard the saying that the Arabs want to push Israel in the sea, while at the same time the Israelis are dropping two-ton bombs in the center of Palestinian villages killing dozens of innocent people? The Arab states have proposed on numerous times that full recognition of Israel as a Jewish state would be made if the Israelis would end their brutal and illegal occupation. These offers have been made numerous times but never made the American media and we know the reason for that. Peace is the last thing that the Israelis want. They prefer to falsely portray themselves as the victim knowing that their control of American politicians and American media will allow them to successfully accomplish their main objective of ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their homes and eventually confiscating all Palestinian land. When you have all this control lies and deception comes natural to the zionists of the world. Nothing has done more harm to America than what we have with the state of Israel.

Do you think Zionism is about Israel Nikatoon ?

The zionists plan to destroy Israel,thats why Israel is on the news day in day out and bloody wars in Sudan and chechnya are ignored.

The zionists only care for Jerusalem,isnt Russia controlled by the zionist world bank and is arming Iran to the teeth(Iran would never strike Jerusalem) Israel of course will be attacked but never Jerusalem,never,ever,just like the zionists want

Zionism is about Global goverment,just like the fanatic Torah Jews want Israel destroyed(as does most of the world)

can you see a messiah doing such things ? being hailed as a saviour
(i can)

beware

[paganus]

Do you think Zionism is about Israel Nikatoon ?

The zionists plan to destroy Israel,thats why Israel is on the news day in day out and bloody wars in Sudan and chechnya are ignored.

The zionists only care for Jerusalem,isnt Russia controlled by the zionist world bank and is arming Iran to the teeth(Iran would never strike Jerusalem) Israel of course will be attacked but never Jerusalem,never,ever,just like the zionists want

Zionism is about Global goverment,just like the fanatic Torah Jews want Israel destroyed(as does most of the world)

can you see a messiah doing such things ? being hailed as a saviour
(i can)

bewareim sure they'd LOVE a Holocaust(tm) part 2! just think of the movie revenue! :D

[damagedbrainn]

DB yer Username is more than apt!!!! You said....For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.Nick says... David Icke on umpteen occasions has warned, in his books, not to trust the official story of the Hollowcaust, or anything else for that matter! You and Adimon cannot be that stoopid can you???? :confused:

Actually, David Icke has never denied that the holocaust happened, or that the gas chambers existed. In fact, he's never personally questioned any of the facts or statistics of the holocaust. The "Jews Control The Universe" crowd always seem to conveniently overlook that when attempting to paint Icke as one of them.

[paganus]

Actually, David Icke has never denied that the holocaust happened, or that the gas chambers existed. In fact, he's never personally questioned any of the facts or statistics of the holocaust. The "Jews Control The Universe" crowd always seem to conveniently overlook then when attempting to paint Icke as one of them.i only really got into DI when i researched the militia movement.DI has given a few talks to them.they consider him 'one of them' they would disagree with you on the zog!

[times7]

Actually, David Icke has never denied that the holocaust happened, or that the gas chambers existed. In fact, he's never personally questioned any of the facts or statistics of the holocaust. The "Jews Control The Universe" crowd always seem to conveniently overlook then when attempting to paint Icke as one of them.

The holocaust is over exaggerated,i put the figure at 1/2 million Jews dying in world war 2,still, the only reason why Israel even exists is because Hitler was put in power to get the Jews to move to Palestine by use of terror

6 million ?

Dont call people stupid

[damagedbrainn]

The holocaust is over exaggerated,i put the figure at 1/2 million Jews dying in world war 2,still, the only reason why Israel even exists is because Hitler was put in power to get the Jews to move to Palestine by use of terror

6 million ?

Dont call people stupid

Yeah, 5-6 million people is such an impossibly high number in a war that resulted in 40 million civilian casualties.

Calling you people stupid would be fucking redundant.

[times7]

Yeah, 5-6 million people is such an impossibly high number in a war that resulted in 40 million civilian casualties.

Calling you people stupid would be fucking redundant.

why dont you admit the media are full of lies ?

The reason Hitler came to power was to make the Jews life hell,so they moved to Palestine,i know this for a fact

Hitler wasnt put in power to wipe out the Jews,infact when Hitler "got" power Hitler toned down his anti Jewishness(if he ever had any)

Mein Kampf was just a tool,not the real plan,do you really ? expect people to believe the garbage in the history books ?
(i know that you know, its garbage damagedbrain)

Still the Jews are stuck in Israel sold out once again,when will you grow a backbone and speak out ?

Hitler was Antichrist and hated christians

I also know that for a 100% fact,even though the idiot history books you defend paint Hitler as a christain,go on try it,convince me the history books are not telling porky pies(lies) over WW2......


(and i will rip you apart)

[damagedbrainn]

why dont you admit the media are full of lies ?

The reason Hitler came to power was to make the Jews life hell,so they moved to Palestine,i know this for a fact

Hitler wasnt put in power to wipe out the Jews,infact when Hitler "got" power Hitler toned down his anti Jewishness(if he ever had any)

Mein Kampf was just a tool,not the real plan,do you really ? expect people to believe the garbage in the history books ?
(i know that you know, its garbage damagedbrain)

Still the Jews are stuck in Israel sold out once again,when will you grow a backbone and speak out ?

Hitler was Antichrist and hated christians

I also know that for a 100% fact,even though the idiot history books you defend paint Hitler as a christain,go on try it,convince me the history books are not telling porky pies(lies) over WW2......


(and i will rip you apart)

And I guess you see no difference between arguing that a tragedy was exploited for political purposes, and flat-out denying that the tragedy even happened.

[times7]

And I guess you see no difference between arguing that a tragedy was exploited for political purposes, and flat-out denying that the tragedy even happened.

I dont deny a tragedy will happen mate or did happen in WW2 ,i get the feeling a tragedy will happen again,but come on man....6 million ?,pull the other one,play the game fair son

Isnt the population of Israel close to 6 million in 2008 ? it seems they are obssessed with the number 6 million,they tried to pull the same trick after WW1

what do you think of the Torah Jew Leaders attacking Israel these days ? everyone loves those global fanatics(Zionists.like Chomsky) its the new fashion havent you heard ? the Torah leaders attack Israel and every goon thinks they are "anti zionist" i know that not to be so ,i know zionism is the ancient story in scripture and FUCK all to do with the country people call "Israel"

[damagedbrainn]

I dont deny a tragedy will happen mate or did happen in WW2 ,i get the feeling a tragedy will happen again,but come on man....6 million ?,pull the other one,play the game fair son

Isnt the population of Israel close to 6 million in 2008 ? it seems they are obssessed with the number 6 million,they tried to pull the same trick after WW1

what do you think of the Torah Jew Leaders attacking Israel these days ? everyone loves those global fanatics(Zionists.like Chomsky) its the new fashion havent you heard ? the Torah leaders attack Israel and every goon thinks they are "anti zionist" i know that not to be so ,i know zionism is the ancient story in scripture and FUCK all to do with the country people call "Israel"

Do you have a hard time believing that 40 million civilians died through the course of WW2?

[times7]

Do you have a hard time believing that 40 million civilians died through the course of WW2?

I would say thats about right 40 million deaths or there abouts,but i sense this is a "loaded" question

The slavs were treated like dirt in the Nazi concentration camps,the Jews had a Brass band in theirs,and that is reality,most of the Jews though ran from Europe in fear and ended up in Palestine of all places,funny that isnt it ?
(all by design)


6 million,ha,ha,ha

The masses maybe fooled,but the whole world hates the country people call "Israel" just ready for the ? to destroy it,guess who ?

Tell me damagedbrain
(funny name)

why do you think the media ignores the wars in Sudan/Chechnya ? and instead gives focus on Israel,does the hidden hand have an agenda ? bet your life on it buddy

[zarah]

Adimon, I don't think Ive read your historical posts on the holocaust, so Im gonna spend some time this afternoon doing just that.

Most people who question the official stroy of the holocaust would just like to know the truth. If it did happened the way it's been told, then it really was the one of the most awful events in history, if it didn't then the repurcussions should be addressed.

Although I can't bear the false term 'anti - semite', it isn't fair to blame Jewish people who believe their ancestors suffered at the hand of Nazi Germany, but it also isn't fair to create a country on someone else's land without their permission and occupy it causing mass death, for the last 60 years.

[nickatnoon61]

Actually, David Icke has never denied that the holocaust happened, or that the gas chambers existed. In fact, he's never personally questioned any of the facts or statistics of the holocaust. The "Jews Control The Universe" crowd always seem to conveniently overlook that when attempting to paint Icke as one of them.
OK DB, Icke HAS however revealed how just about EVERYTHING we have learned is BULLSHIT!!!! But I guess the HOLLOWCAUST is the only part that is true!!!!NOW...... GO TAKE YOUR MEDICATION!!!! :rolleyes:

[damagedbrainn]

I would say thats about right 40 million deaths or there abouts,but i sense this is a "loaded" question

The slavs were treated like dirt in the Nazi concentration camps,the Jews had a Brass band in theirs,and that is reality,most of the Jews though ran from Europe in fear and ended up in Palestine of all places,funny that isnt it ?
(all by design)


6 million,ha,ha,ha

The masses maybe fooled,but the whole world hates the country people call "Israel" just ready for the ? to destroy it,guess who ?

Tell me damagedbrain
(funny name)

why do you think the media ignores the wars in Sudan/Chechnya ? and instead gives focus on Israel,does the hidden hand have an agenda ? bet your life on it buddy

So it's easy for you to accept that 40 million died, but 5 or 6 million Jews sounds too outrageous to you? Why? Obviously it's not the number itself that you find hard to believe (since you have no problem believing that 40 million died), but rather it's the fact that they were Jews which you have a problem with. So explain that.

[damagedbrainn]

OK DB, Icke HAS however revealed how just about EVERYTHING we have learned is BULLSHIT!!!! But I guess the HOLLOWCAUST is the only part that is true!!!!NOW...... GO TAKE YOUR MEDICATION!!!! :rolleyes:

Every opinion you have on the issue of the holocaust stems from your core belief that Jews are Satan worshiping, child murdering, blood drinking monsters from outer-space. (And, of course, there's nothing at all anti-semitic about such a belief, no sir). And that fact pretty much kills any point you have to make on the topic.

[times7]

So it's easy for you to accept that 40 million died, but 5 or 6 million Jews sounds too outrageous to you? Why? Obviously it's not the number itself that you find hard to believe (since you have no problem believing that 40 million died), but rather it's the fact that they were Jews which you have a problem with. So explain that.

well Hitler was put in Power to make the Jews life hell so they would move to Palestine ,Hitler never had any intention whats so ever to wipe out the Jews like the junk history book waffle about,holocaust, ?if you say so son,if you say so

The population of Jews in Palestine shot up rapid style before WW2,it dont take much to work out why,what happens next is what you should be thinking not playing a blind man damaged brain

(white stick)

[damagedbrainn]

well Hitler was put in Power to make the Jews life hell so they would move to Palestine ,Hitler never had any intention whats so ever to wipe out the Jews like the junk history book waffle about,holocaust, ?if you say so son,if you say so

The population of Jews in Palestine shot up rapid style before WW2,it dont take much to work out why,what happens next is what you should be thinking not playing a blind man damaged brain

(white stick)

And starving them and executing them isn't making their life hell? And your explanation doesn't take into account the other groups which Hitler targeted for extermination, such as the handicapped and the Gypsies. Was he trying to make them form their own countries too?

And I don't think you're being completely honest anyway, since in a previous comment you questioned whether or not Hitler even had any real problem with the Jews. What was it that you meant by that?

[nickatnoon61]

Every opinion you have on the issue of the holocaust stems from your core belief that Jews are Satan worshiping, child murdering, blood drinking monsters from outer-space. (And, of course, there's nothing at all anti-semitic about such a belief, no sir). And that fact pretty much kills any point you have to make on the topic.Yep DB, when you can't answer an argument attack the one making it! Can you say TRANSPARENCY?????

[times7]

And starving them and executing them isn't making their life hell? And your explanation doesn't take into account the other groups which Hitler targeted for extermination, such as the handicapped and the Gypsies. Was he trying to make them form their own countries too?

And I don't think you're being completely honest anyway, since in a previous comment you questioned whether or not Hitler even had any real problem with the Jews. What was it that you meant by that?




Of course the Nazis targetted gypsies and disabled people,i know Jews got it as well,just the 6 million stat,i dont buy it,i reject "mainstream" history because i have an undamaged brain...

Hitler never had a problem with Jews, his mission was to make their life a living hell so they would move to Palestine and Hitlers main murder plans were to mass murder the Christains in eastern Europe,that might seem heartless thinking on my part to say that but its not,its just what happened.

Thats why i remind you of of Israel being in the news day in day out,while mass genocide in Sudan/Chehnya is ignored
(there is a reason for that)

Say if you look at WW2 deaths in ratio per population,the Jews stood as good as chance as being murdered as any ethnic group in WW2 with 1/2 million deaths,but 6 million ?,come on thats rubbish and you know it

[nickatnoon61]

And I don't think you're being completely honest anyway THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK???? TOO FUNNY MR. IMPERSONATing A DIF MEMBER ON ANOTHER FORUM!!!! Some of us aren't as stoooopid as you think DB!!! :rolleyes:

[zarah]

I read somewhere that the Jews (Im not sure if it was just Germanic Jews) declared war on Germany in 1933, and Hitler's actions were in reprisal.

I don't understand how, if one had read anything unbiased on that time period, one could believe that millions of Jewish people were killed.

[nickatnoon61]

I read somewhere that the Jews (Im not sure if it was just Germanic Jews) declared war on Germany in 1933, and Hitler's actions were in reprisal.

I don't understand how, if one had read anything unbiased on that time period, one could believe that millions of Jewish people were killed.
Zarah, Google anything about the Khazar(AshkeNAZI) Jews and see how loverly these people(I use that word loosely) are! They haven't a drop of semetic blood in them. They stole Is Ra El like they stole everything else they have!

[damagedbrainn]

Yep DB, when you can't answer an argument attack the one making it! Can you say TRANSPARENCY?????

I was attacking your beliefs/opinions. I made no personal insults nor any implications that you need medication. (I also haven't threatened to kill you.) And what I said is true, that is what you believe. Why pretend otherwise?

[nickatnoon61]

I was attacking your beliefs/opinions. I made no personal insults nor any implications that you need medication. (I also haven't threatened to kill you.) And what I said is true, that is what you believe. Why pretend otherwise?
Can you say TRANSPARENCY?????

[damagedbrainn]

Of course the Nazis targetted gypsies and disabled people,i know Jews got it as well,just the 6 million stat,i dont buy it,i reject "mainstream" history because i have an undamaged brain...

Hitler never had a problem with Jews, his mission was to make their life a living hell so they would move to Palestine and Hitlers main murder plans were to mass murder the Christains in eastern Europe,that might seem heartless thinking on my part to say that but its not,its just what happened.

Thats why i remind you of of Israel being in the news day in day out,while mass genocide in Sudan/Chehnya is ignored
(there is a reason for that)

Say if you look at WW2 deaths in ratio per population,the Jews stood as good as chance as being murdered as any ethnic group in WW2 with 1/2 million deaths,but 6 million ?,come on thats rubbish and you know it

No, you aren't rejecting mainstream history in general. You only seem to reject the aspects that involve Jews, using what appears to be no logic whatsoever.

Jews were specifically targeted by Hitler, as you've admitted by stating that his "mission" was to make their life hell, so trying to discredit the possibility of 6 million deaths by weighing the odds according to the "ratio per population" is a complete contradiction. That would only matter if it was done at random, which it was not.

Honestly, it seems to me that you want to downplay the suffering and death of the Jews in an attempt to paint Christians as the real "victims" of WW2 and likely the whole conspiracy in general. If so, you'll have a much harder time making a case for that than anything else.

[zarah]

Zarah, Google anything about the Khazar(AshkeNAZI) Jews and see how loverly these people(I use that word loosely) are! They haven't a drop of semetic blood in them. They stole Is Ra El like they stole everything else they have!

Yeah, Ive read a lot about the origins of Ashekenazi jews over the last couple of years, so I know where youre coming from with that.

[nickatnoon61]

No, you aren't rejecting mainstream history in general. You only seem to reject the aspects that involve Jews, using what appears to be no logic whatsoever.

Jews were specifically targeted by Hitler, as you've admitted by stating that his "mission" was to make their life hell, so trying to discredit the possibility of 6 million deaths by weighing the odds according to the "ratio per population" is a complete contradiction. That would only matter if it was done at random, which it was not.

Honestly, it seems to me that you want to downplay the suffering and death of the Jews in an attempt to paint Christians as the real "victims" of WW2 and likely the whole conspiracy in general. If so, you'll have a much harder time making a case for that than anything else.

ALL OR MOST OF MAINSTREAM HISTORY IS BULLSHIT! USUALLY THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!!! The ones who write the his-story just finished hanging the true heroes!Our biggest challenge is to try to shake off the layers of horseshit that has been piled on us. Adimon, Seanx, and Damaged Brainn want to make sure it sticks to us!!!! Misery Loves Company.....

[oiram]

What is even more interesting this News paper article which looks original talked about 600,000 Jews
Go Here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/DailyExpress_March1933_judeafrontpage.jpg


Shit here is more of the good news! Does Bush knows about this? Then he is a total hypocrite.

Judea Declares War on Germany: A Critical Look at WWII
http://www.honestmediatoday.com/jdw.htm
This movie is a fair and balanced look at how Jews declared war on Germany in early 1933 (long before any German retaliation began) in an effort to crush Germany. Germans responded to this by making many of these "traitors" to their cause imprisoned (similar to what America did to the Japanese). However, despite propaganda conceived by Jewish supremacists in the form of Holocausts movies made weekly (still, even 60 years after the war's end), there were no homicidal gas chambers.

There were no lampshades made from Jewish skin, and all such talk has been proven to be pure bunk.

There were no bars of soap made from humans, as Jewish propagandists have long argued (despite numerous tests proving them bald-faced liars, and despite even some Jewish historians conceding to this last point--and others).

Most of the stories you hear are simply left-over propaganda conceived by Soviet Jewish master-propagandist Ilya Ehrenberg, which he used to help justify the war.

In fact, according to records from the Red Cross, only about 275,000 Jews died during the course of WWII in lands occupied by Germany. Those who did die suffered mostly from diseases (such as typhus) and malnutrition (towards the war's end, when supply lines were cut and even the general public had to ration its food there).

Today, of course, Jewish supremacists are working quickly to suppress anyone who doubts their propaganda. Take, for example, Ernst Zundel, who was ripped away from his wife Dr. Ingrid Zundel in the hills of Tennessee, when he was sent to Germany for doubting the Holocaust (with a capital "H"). Similarly, Germar Rudolf was taken from his wife and children in Illinois and deported to Germany, where he stood trial and had to go to prison for doubting the Jewish version of history.

No one is sent to Red China for doubting that they killed millions under communism there, which is a known fact; nor is anyone sent to jail for doubting that about 40 million people were murdered under Stalin and his Bolshevik henchmen. But doubt Jewish WWII propaganda, and you might next be sent to Europe to stand trial for their thought crime laws--like a modern day Galileo--punished for telling the truth!

(See articles below about this video not being allowed on a cable access channel that says it supports "free speech"--as long as it touts the line, of course, and doesn't offend Jews only.)

[peachped]

"The appearance of the swastika symbol of a new Germany has called forth the lion of Judah, the old battle symbol of Jewish defiance"

[nickatnoon61]

What is even more interesting this News paper article which looks original talked about 600,000 Jews so did they add a zero to create 6,000,000 this is no F u c k i n g joke!
Did they have 5,400,000 more Jews immigrating in to Germany after March 24, 1933?
Go Here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/DailyExpress_March1933_judeafrontpage.jpg


Shit here is more of the good news! Does Bush knows about this? Then he is a total hypocrite.

Judea Declares War on Germany: A Critical Look at WWIIhttp://www.honestmediatoday.com/jdw.htm
This movie is a fair and balanced look at how Jews declared war on Germany in early 1933 (long before any German retaliation began) in an effort to crush Germany. Germans responded to this by making many of these "traitors" to their cause imprisoned (similar to what America did to the Japanese). However, despite propaganda conceived by Jewish supremacists in the form of Holocausts movies made weekly (still, even 60 years after the war's end), there were no homicidal gas chambers.

There were no lampshades made from Jewish skin, and all such talk has been proven to be pure bunk.

There were no bars of soap made from humans, as Jewish propagandists have long argued (despite numerous tests proving them bald-faced liars, and despite even some Jewish historians conceding to this last point--and others).

Most of the stories you hear are simply left-over propaganda conceived by Soviet Jewish master-propagandist Ilya Ehrenberg, which he used to help justify the war.

In fact, according to records from the Red Cross, only about 275,000 Jews died during the course of WWII in lands occupied by Germany. Those who did die suffered mostly from diseases (such as typhus) and malnutrition (towards the war's end, when supply lines were cut and even the general public had to ration its food there).

Today, of course, Jewish supremacists are working quickly to suppress anyone who doubts their propaganda. Take, for example, Ernst Zundel, who was ripped away from his wife Dr. Ingrid Zundel in the hills of Tennessee, when he was sent to Germany for doubting the Holocaust (with a capital "H"). Similarly, Germar Rudolf was taken from his wife and children in Illinois and deported to Germany, where he stood trial and had to go to prison for doubting the Jewish version of history.

No one is sent to Red China for doubting that they killed millions under communism there, which is a known fact; nor is anyone sent to jail for doubting that about 40 million people were murdered under Stalin and his Bolshevik henchmen. But doubt Jewish WWII propaganda, and you might next be sent to Europe to stand trial for their thought crime laws--like a modern day Galileo--punished for telling the truth!

(See articles below about this video not being allowed on a cable access channel that says it supports "free speech"--as long as it touts the line, of course, and doesn't offend Jews only.)
__________________

Thanx oiram, this is just like what i said THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what we have learned is TRUE!!!!! The fluoridated brains cannot conceive this fact!!!

[times7]

There was an economic war declared on Germany before WW2,but it wasnt the "Jews" maybe a sect of "Jews" could be argued

Hitler was put in power to make the Jews support Zionism(by use of terror and making life a misery),Zionism had scant support from the Jews before Hitler came to power

even 99% of Jews dont know the secrets,but its obvious many play blind and nit pick on the side lines with their holocaust "story"

[adimon]

literal definition of the word holocaust is sacrifice by fire,unless nazi policy was human sacrifice by fire,then by definition it didnt happen.

Strawman argument.

didnt the 'allies' kill innocent civillians? dresden...hiroshima...nagasaki et al?

Yes, but to suggest this is evidence against the holocaust would be a strawman argument.

Ive read some of Adiom's post and I'll ensure that I read some more when I have some time later.

The name's Adimon (or Chris if you prefer) and I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you. Two of my earlier posts contain points which neither phantom nor nickatnoon61 have addressed.

zarah, what you have said is TOO REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT. These ignorant Shabboz Goy like Seanx, Adimon, and the rest are conditioned for life! YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ENERGY WADING IN SHIT WITH THESE TURDS! Leave them to themselves and watch them devour eachother!!!! When you cannot answer an argument...attack the person making it! This is ALL they have done in months of similar debate! It is because it is all they have!

Please tell me nickatnoon61, what Shabboz Goy means? I googled it, but all I got were white-supremacist and other anti-semitic sites full of hate, and they're not my kind of place. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Maybe while you're at it, you could address some of the points I raised in my earlier pots - or are you not interested in debating the facts?

Did you know that Adimon is a history teacher. If you want to waste a lot of time and energy read his posts, and then understand why the schools are full of ZIO-engineered,brain-dead conformists!!!

Actually I'm not a history teacher. What makes you think this - or is it just another outrageous lie?

I don't challenge Phantom on his views because they don't interest me. If they did, I would. They interest you, so you challenge him and more power to you for making that choice.

Hand on heart I don't care if he has a hidden agenda, why do you?

I simply believe once you stop attacking the message and instead start on the messenger, you lose the debate. Surely if you truly believe that Phantom is talking nonsense his posts should be easy to dispute.


Zarah I have several times made points in response to Phantom, but he cannot or will not come back with anything in response to me. Since he's not interested in debate, then what is he here for? If you mean what you say bout not caring about a possible hidden agenda, then I find that quite worrying.

David Blaine's the worst magician in the world so that's a terrible analogy ;)

:D

Amongst one particular cutnpaste effort from nickatnoon61, he offers us these gems:

I am proud of my stand against low life scum, and I take nothing back about what I said about them!

Everyday the jews show the world a new reason to hate and despise them.

Nice stuff nick, but how about answering my points?

DB yer Username is more than apt!!!! You said....For chrissake, read a fuckin' history book.Nick says... David Icke on umpteen occasions has warned, in his books, not to trust the official story of the Hollowcaust, or anything else for that matter! You and Adimon cannot be that stoopid can you???? :confused:

The reason Hitler came to power was to make the Jews life hell,so they moved to Palestine,i know this for a fact

How do you 'know this for a fact' ?

Hitler wasnt put in power to wipe out the Jews

He was put in power by popular support, and had campaigned for many years on openly anti-semitic policies.

infact when Hitler "got" power Hitler toned down his anti Jewishness

Translating thought into action is 'toning it down' then?

(if he ever had any)

Both of Hitler's book are full of anti-jewish hatred, and you know it.

convince me the history books are not telling porky pies(lies) over WW2......

I'm not going to try and convince you of anything, but perhaps you could respond to my earlier posts which contain many questions of those who believe the revisionist material.

(and i will rip you apart)

Nice.

The slavs were treated like dirt in the Nazi concentration camps,the Jews had a Brass band in theirs

? ? ? :confused:

Adimon, I don't think Ive read your historical posts on the holocaust, so Im gonna spend some time this afternoon doing just that.

Well you said before you had read them, so you appear to be changing your story, but please do read my earlier posts. I would very much like to read your response, as you will be the first to address them on this thread.

Most people who question the official stroy of the holocaust would just like to know the truth. If it did happened the way it's been told, then it really was the one of the most awful events in history, if it didn't then the repurcussions should be addressed.

I agree, this is the mindset I adopted when I looked into it. But upon extensive historiographical analysis, the revisionist argument just doesn't stand up at all.

well Hitler was put in Power to make the Jews life hell so they would move to Palestine ,Hitler never had any intention whats so ever to wipe out the Jews like the junk history book waffle about

Again I ask what are you sources?

Yep DB, when you can't answer an argument attack the one making it! Can you say TRANSPARENCY?????

Not answering an argument and attacking the person making it is exactly what you do to me every time, including this thread. You have made no effort to respond to my posts, instead calling me Shabboz Goy!

I read somewhere that the Jews (Im not sure if it was just Germanic Jews) declared war on Germany in 1933, and Hitler's actions were in reprisal.

Not true. Hitler had published his hatred of jews and other races, and his plans for 'racial purification' in the 1920s.

ALL OR MOST OF MAINSTREAM HISTORY IS BULLSHIT! USUALLY THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!!! The ones who write the his-story just finished hanging the true heroes!Our biggest challenge is to try to shake off the layers of horseshit that has been piled on us. Adimon, Seanx, and Damaged Brainn want to make sure it sticks to us!!!! Misery Loves Company.....

So Hitler is the true hero is he Nick?

Isn't there a Combat 18 forum you can go to and spare us all your stress Nick?

[times7]

Hitler was put in power to make the Jews support the founding of a country they call Israel

Mein Kampf was the plan that was given to the people,the "real" plan was "different"

Of course Hitler came to power on an antisemite ticket,but if you studied Hitler speeches after he came to power,Hitler became an anti christian savage
(true colurs)

The history books say Hitler was a christian,when the educated mind knows other wise,the zionists created Israel by using Hitler and the Zionists also plan to destroy Israel,but not many people know that,or have the brains to see Zionism or what it means

[adimon]

What sources of evidence are you citing for this 'real plan' you speak of?

What speeches of Hitler's are you referring to?

Thanks.

[times7]

What sources of evidence are you citing for this 'real plan' you speak of?

What speeches of Hitler's are you referring to?

Thanks.

calling the slavs less than human,is antichristian, Hitler veiled his Antichrist views and toned down his "anti Jewishness" after he got power,its known, study his speeches after Hitler got power,even modern day historians admit that Hitler toned down his "AntiJewishness" after gaining power

In private, Hitler hated chistainity and the history books say Hitler was a christian, what a sick joke eh ?

They hide Truth you see,keeps people ignorant and stupid,just the way they like it

You want a source ? use your common sense and do your home work,you tell me why Israel is on the news day in day out,while mass genocides in Sudan are just ignored

research the history of Zionism stage 1 to create Israel,the Jews didnt want to know untill Hitler got to power,it all adds up

stage 2 incite hate for Israel

Israel should never of existed

[adimon]

You want a source ? use your common sense and do your home work,you tell me why Israel is on the news day in day out,while mass genocides in Sudan are just ignored

All very well and good but you mentioned speeches so can you please tell me which speeches there are. As for common sense and home work, well I have studied modern history very thoroughly - both official and alternative viewpoints. Didn't find any speeches by Hitler which matched your claims though.

research the history of Zionism stage 1 to create Israel,the Jews didnt want to know untill Hitler got to power,it all adds up

stage 2 incite hate for Israel

Israel should never of existed

So...putting aside the fact that you haven't provided a source...whats the point in all this? Why start a war to create Israel and then another to destroy it?

[times7]

why ?

Create Israel to destroy it ?

Its part of the prophecy,but not many people see that,what other reason can there be for Israel being on the news day in day out while genocides across the globe are ignored ? this great leader who will rise up and destroy Israel,a leader,a GLOBAL leader

I havent posted a source ? post your source ? i could post a Henry Makow link but i wont bother as what Makow says is not what i say..........

Its a known fact, Hitler called the slavs less than human,a war of destruction,genocide,racial hatred,ect,ect,i am of course talking about the eternal war and the ancient story in scripture

be warned

[lifeofbrian]

calling the slavs less than human,is antichristian, Hitler veiled his Antichrist views and toned down his "anti Jewishness" after he got power,its known, study his speeches after Hitler got power,even modern day historians admit that Hitler toned down his "AntiJewishness" after gaining power

In private, Hitler hated chistainity and the history books say Hitler was a christian, what a sick joke eh ?

They hide Truth you see,keeps people ignorant and stupid,just the way they like it

You want a source ? use your common sense and do your home work,you tell me why Israel is on the news day in day out,while mass genocides in Sudan are just ignored

research the history of Zionism stage 1 to create Israel,the Jews didnt want to know untill Hitler got to power,it all adds up

stage 2 incite hate for Israel

Israel should never of existed

I am curious; do you have a manual stating what should and should not be, and the grounds?

Your posts are very intriguing. Please continue.

[lifeofbrian]

why ?

Create Israel to destroy it ?

Its part of the prophecy,but not many people see that,what other reason can there be for Israel being on the news day in day out while genocides across the globe are ignored ? this great leader who will rise up and destroy Israel,a leader,a GLOBAL leader

I havent posted a source ? post your source ? i could post a Henry Makow link but i wont bother as what Makow says is not what i say..........

Its a known fact, Hitler called the slavs less than human,a war of destruction,genocide,racial hatred,ect,ect,i am of course talking about the eternal war and the ancient story in scripture

be warned

You are reading from THE manual/cookbook, the Bible?

This is very intriguing.

[adimon]

why ?

Create Israel to destroy it ?

Its part of the prophecy,but not many people see that,what other reason can there be for Israel being on the news day in day out while genocides across the globe are ignored ? this great leader who will rise up and destroy Israel,a leader,a GLOBAL leader

What I'm asking you is why would TPTB create Israel only to destroy it? The idea that they would engineer 9/11 in order to go to war, for example, is vaguely logical, if not wholly. But your suggestion that they would do this with Israel makes no sense at all.

I havent posted a source ? post your source ? i could post a Henry Makow link but i wont bother as what Makow says is not what i say..........

Please see my essay on Nazi Foreign Policy on this forum. I list a few sources there, and the anti-semitic angle is present in nearly all of Hitler's works and speeches. You mentioned speeches, but have refused to say when these speeches took place. That's all I'm asking.

Its a known fact, Hitler called the slavs less than human,a war of destruction,genocide,racial hatred,ect,ect,i am of course talking about the eternal war and the ancient story in scripture

I never said that Hitler didn't hate the slavs - of course he did. But hating the slavs didn't stop him planning genocide of the jews as well.

be warned

Why? :)

[eternal_spirit]

Very few people realize that the Zionist Jewish version of the “Holocaust”, what the revisionists refer to as the Holocaust Hoax, is the CENTERPIECE of the Zionist Jews’ Plan to destroy all nations, control the entire world, slaughter most of the population of the earth, and reduce the rest to slaves. Without the belief in the Zionist Jewish version of the “Holocaust” by the average Jews, and everyone else as well, NONE of these things could occur! Their plans would be foiled!
For decades, America has been pummeled non-stop with “Holocaust” propaganda. On almost every corner, in every city in America, a “Holocaust” museum is rising, paid for by U.S. taxpayers. Propaganda about the “Holocaust” is filling the school textbooks and indoctrinating the minds of our children.
What is the reason behind this incessant indoctrination?
It is absolutely essential that all Jews, in particular, and everyone else, in general, believe the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust”, for the following reasons.
1. The rank and file Jews must be made to believe that non-Jews want them dead, and that millions of Jews were killed because Hitler, apparently for NO REASON except blatant bigotry, ordered their death.
2. The rank and file Jews must be terrified into believing that this “same thing” will happen again - - if any one says any thing bad (even if it’s true) about any Jew. That is why the Hate Crimes legislation is taking place in America. That is why the Zionist Jews are kidnapping and illegally imprisoning anyone who questions the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust”, including Ernst Zundel (http://www.zundelsite.org/), Germar Rudolph (http://www.germarrudolf.com/), David Irving (http://www.canadianfreespeech.com/updates/irving/stand.html), Siegfried Verbeke (http://www.rense.com/general60/arr.htm), and others. They have committed no “crime” other than to question history!
3. The forensic evidence regarding the “Holocaust”, hard facts (http://www.zundelsite.org/english/leuchter/report1/index.html) painstakingly collected by the Holocaust Revisionists, will stand up in any impartial court of law completely refuting the supposed “eye witness” accounts of survivors, and the Zionist Jews know that! These “eyewitness” survivors, when placed under oath in a Court of Law, have withered on the stand under cross-examination, admitting they lied, including one of the top Jewish supporters of the Holocaust, Raul Hilberg (http://www.zundelsite.org/english/dsmrd/dsmrd09hilberg.html).

[eternal_spirit]

Instead of countering this forensic evidence that refutes the Zionist Jewish version of the “Holocaust” with hard evidence supporting their views, the Zionist Jews respond with insults, smears, more arrests, assassinations, non-stop propaganda campaigns, and rapidly multiplying “Holocaust” museums. Never once do they sit down with the Revisionists to discuss the issues!

5.Without the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust” and the fear instilled in the rank and file Jews against non-Jews, there would be more intermarrying between Jews and non-Jews. They would assimilate into the country of their residence instead of remaining separate.
But this assimilation into the land of their residence must be stopped, according to the Zionist Jews, who need more “Jews” to inhabit the lands they are planning to take over for themselves, such as Iraq, Iran, Syria, and other oil-rich countries. Just as they have encouraged illegal Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories, so they will encourage illegal Jewish settlements in these other countries, as soon as enough American men and women have tragically died, securing these lands for Israel.
But the BIG Zionist Jews have no conscience. They will sacrifice “Jews” as easily as they will sacrifice non-“Jews” - if it serves their purpose. Hundreds of thousands of Israeli “settlers” will be destined to a horribly painful, premature death in lands filled with tons of deadly, depleted uranium, purposely and knowingly placed there by Israeli-backed U.S. military leaders. The newborn children of these “Jewish” settlers will be horribly disfigured, and the incidence of cancer among them will skyrocket.
But as The BIG Jew, Bertrand Russell, wrote in his book, The Impact of Science on Society,
“Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially the suffering of others.”
6.Without the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust”, and the fear that “THIS could happen again,” the rank and file Jew would not be so willing to risk his or her life to live in Israel, under rotten conditions - in a state of almost constant war - in order to secure the “homeland” for their leaders.
The rank and file Jews should take note that NONE of the really BIG Jews live in Israel. None of the BIG Jews, such as the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, Edgar Bronfman, Maurice Strong, the Rockefellers, Henry Kissinger, the Wall Street and International Bankers, or even the Neo-Cons, live in Israel. Instead, they all have their luxurious homes and headquarters in the U.S., the U.K., France or some other beautiful, safe, relatively peaceful, comfortable country. These BIG Jews don’t want their lives endangered! They much prefer that the rank and file Jews risk their lives in Israel so the BIG BOYS can own the world!
If there is so much anti-Semitism, oppression, and persecution of Jews in all these countries, why do the BIG Jews live there? And thrive there? And get super-rich there?
The rank and file Jews have been CONNED by their own self-proclaimed Zionist Jewish leaders!
The rank and file Jews do not understand the true goal of Zionism. They believe, as they are taught, that Zionism is an international movement to secure a homeland for Jews in Palestine. But the BIG Zionist Jews know that the real goal of Zionism is to control the world completely, and to kill or enslave its citizens.
Many Jews claim to be anti-Zionism, but most, if not all, of these same Jews believe in the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust” which is the CENTERPIECE of Zionism!
So, while claiming to be anti-Zionism, they are unknowingly and unwittingly supporting the centerpiece of Zionism, the very cause they profess to abhor!
7.Without the Zionist Jews’ version of the Holocaust, the rank and file Jews would assimilate into the population of the country where they reside, live a normal life like everyone else, and the Zionist Jews’ goal of World Control could never be attained.
8. Without the Zionist Jews’ version of the “Holocaust”, the Jews could not collect millions upon millions of dollars from 1) Germany in reparations, 2) Switzerland from bank accounts, 3) the U.S. in loans that are never repaid, as “guilt” money for not somehow preventing the “Holocaust.” This money is then used to support the state of Israel, to allow them to become the Number One nuclear power in the Middle East, to allow them to return a sizeable portion of that same money to the U.S., to buy and own our U.S. Senators, Congressmen, and President, and thus, to undermine and control our government.
That is why the Zionist Jews must intimidate and imprison those who know the truth about the “Holocaust.”
What are they trying to hide?
If they were real men, they would come out of the shadows and sit down and discuss the issues. That is all the Revisionists are asking!
Holocaust Revisionist: Revisionists (http://www.revisionists.com/index.html), in general, spend their time in research, attempting to find the truth in history, and then “Revise” back to truth, the myths that have so often been written into the textbooks and the history books by hired agents of the elitists for their propaganda purposes.
Holocaust Revisionists agree that Jews, Gypsies, some Christians, and some others were detained in German-run internment camps in European countries, including Poland and Germany, during World War II, the reason being that International Jewry had declared publicly, including in headlines of European newspapers (http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/jewsdeclarewar/jew_declare_war.html), that if Germany went to war against England, the Jews living in Germany would sabotage the German war effort. This automatically made the Jews “enemies of the State” by any nation’s laws. However, Holocaust Revisionists do not agree that there was any German plan to exterminate Jews, nor were there any homicidal gas chambers in any concentration camps.
Human Rights Tribunals: Most Americans have no idea of the treachery of Human “Rights” Tribunals. In a regular Court of Law, a) the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, b) the defendant is allowed to know the charges against him, c) the defendant has the right to face his accuser, d) the defendant’s attorney has the right to cross-examine the witness/accuser, and e) TRUTH is a defense. In other words, if the defendant is accused by the State of lying and the defendant can prove that he has, indeed, told the TRUTH, he is exonerated – he is NOT guilty.
This is the way it should be.
However, in a Human “Rights” Tribunal, the defendant, in actuality, has NO rights: a) he must somehow prove his innocence, rather than being presumed innocent until proven guilty by the State, b) secret witnesses are allowed to give secret testimony and the defendant has no right to know the charges against him. (How can anyone defend himself against unknown charges?) C) the secret witnesses can remain secret and the accused has no right to know the identity of these “witnesses”, d) obviously, if the witnesses are not obligated to reveal their identity and are not obligated to appear in court, they have not been sworn to tell the truth, and never have to testify under oath, nor can they be cross-examined by the defendant’s attorney, and e) TRUTH IS NO DEFENSE!
According to the “rules” of the Human Rights Tribunals in Canada, Germany and many other countries, it doesn’t matter if what the defendant has said is TRUE! It only matters if the people in control are offended by what the defendant has said.
Human Rights Tribunals are operational in Canada and Germany, and are completely controlled by the Zionist Jews. Holocaust Revisionist, Ernst Zundel, was “tried” under this ridiculous, unlawful, and treacherous system in Canada.
George W. Bush has spoken publicly about this issue, threatening to establish Human “Rights” Tribunals in America and in the different countries where torture prisons are run by the U.S. (and Israel – from behind the scenes).
These will be nothing but kangaroo courts aimed at railroading into the Gulag Concentration Camps, (and worse) all those who object to any and all policies of the New World Order.


http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/

[supertzar]

Does anyone know where the remains of the six million are buried? There must be inumerable mass graves with the remains of thousands of bodies.

[eternal_spirit]

click below for more info
(http://www.ground-radar.com/)

Ground radar (http://www.ground-radar.com/)
http://judicial-inc.biz/Rissga_m3.jpg

http://judicial-inc.biz/Rigsssa_m4.jpg http://judicial-inc.biz/Rigsssa_m5.jpg

[eternal_spirit]

Buried Objects

GPR can be used to locate underground storage tanks (UST), grave location, forensic investigations and a wide variety of other buried objects.

Archaeology

Using Ground Radar to map the subsurface, the location of possible archaeological artifacts, bones, etc. can be identified.

[supertzar]

Even cremated bodies leave bones behind, from what I have heard. If Germany and Poland are not peppered with thousands of huge mass graves, that is a big problem for the Holocaust, isn't it?

[eternal_spirit]

Even cremated bodies leave bones behind, from what I have heard. If Germany and Poland are not peppered with thousands of huge mass graves, that is a big problem for the Holocaust, isn't it?

......................................

BINGO!

[nickatnoon61]

Al I have studied modern history very thoroughly


adimon, THIS IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM!!!! You have been indoctrinated for life, by the very ones who are the perpe-traitors! It will take a miracle spiritual awakening for you. Have you read any of Icke's stuff at all??? I have carefully watched all of my so-called adversaries on the Hollowcaust myth and see what "fruit they have borne" on this forum. The more I see, the better I feel about myself and my arguments! Of course the indoctrinated dummies are the majority, even on this supposedly "enlightened" forum, so there will be no shortage of fluoridated, conditioned drones with ,what they think, are their own "opinions". The best place to start for you is from square 1. Forget all the crap you think you know, and start to re-learn from your intuition/gut feelings. I know it is hard to shake off the images from "SHIT ler's List", and all the other Hollywood Jew garbage, that we have been accosted with, for generations. Is your cup half full or half empty, or just half full of Zionist BS??? LOL Deep breaths, quiet, and just ask the lifeforce for the answers/truths. They will be revealed to you, if you are sincere in the asking.
"it is easier to write a message on a blank piece of paper, than one that is filled with scribbling."

[lizzy]

ADIMON..........TRY this for a little starter..............;)





Articles Bigger Text | Default Text | Smaller Text | Adjust column | Send to a Friend
Illuminati Bankers Hired Hitler to Start WW2
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
March 2, 2007


By Henry Makow Ph.D

The ink wasn't dry on the Versailles Peace Treaty before the Illuminati started work on World War Two by building Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party.

Before 1919, Hitler had been a political "gun for hire" who had many Jewish friends and had flirted with both Communism and Socialism. Overnight he became a virulent anti-Communist and anti-Semite. What happened? He had become an army intelligence officer. Throughout the 1920's the Reichswehr secretly funded his party and trained his SA "Brownshirts."

I suspect General Kurt Von Schleicher was the point man for Illuminati bankers like Max Warburg, whose Frankfurt I.G. Farben HQ was spared by Allied bombers, and whose Jewish mother lived in comfort in Hamburg throughout the war.

In the Protocols of Zion, the author, an Illuminati banker, boasts they create or sanction anti-Semitism when it serves their purpose. "Anti-Semitism is indispensible to us for the management of our lesser brethren...this matter has been the subject of repeated discussions amongst us." (Protocol 9). Hitler is an example of how anti-Semitism was created. The author continues:

"It is from us that the all engulfing terror proceeds. We have in our service persons of all opinions, of all doctrines, monarchists, demagogues, socialists, communists and utopian dreamers of every kind...striving to overthrow all established forms of order. All states are in torture... but we will not give them peace until they openly acknowledge our international Super government..."

There, in black and white, is the blueprint behind the NWO, UN, the EU and NAU, and every war until today. But the bankers have made us think it "racist" to pay heed. As if more than 1% of Jews were/are a conscious part of their heinous, diabolical conspiracy.

Modern history consists of this long-term plan to foment needless wars in order to enslave mankind by destroying nation, religion, race and family. Most historians are paid to obscure the horrible fact that the people ultimately responsible for Auschwitz, the Gulag, Hiroshima and Verdun, still run the world. They are responsible for 9-11 and Iraq.

Our leaders are chosen by their ability to lie and follow orders. Conflicts are charades between "antagonists" who actually serve the same masters.

(For newcomers, the Illuminati consist of selected members of dynastic Jewish central banking families intermarried with Euro-American aristocracy, along with Jesuits, who have reached the highest degrees of Kabalistic Freemasonry.)


VERSAILLES

Dr. E. J. Dillon of the London Daily Telegraph wrote in his book "The Inside Story of the Peace Conference," (1920): Many delegates deduced that "henceforth the world will be governed by the Anglo-Saxon people, who in turn are swayed by their Jewish elements..." (i.e. the central bankers and their factotums) p 497.

Germany was the major obstacle to using England and the U.S. to impose Illuminati rule upon the world . Thus, onerous reparations were imposed to prompt another much more devastating world war. Once it begin, the British vetoed attempts to assassinate or replace Hitler, and insisted on "unconditional surrender."

Hitler didn’t come to power until 1933 but Germany started rearming in 1919 in contravention of Versailles provisions. The Allies turned a blind eye to a program that saw Communist and German soldiers train in Russia with the latest weaponry, including whole bases devoted to air force, armor and chemical warfare. When Hitler came to power in 1933, Germany already had an advanced air force.

Another way to evade Versailles was for the Reichswehr to fund and train paramilitary organizations like the Nazi SA which later could be incorporated into the regular army.
General Kurt Von Schleicher and Captains Karl Mayr and Ernst Roehm were in charge of this "Black Werhmacht" program.

Sefton Delmer, who was the Daily Express correspondent in Berlin, describes all this in his autobiography "Trail Sinister" (1961). He cites documents showing that Hitler was "acting under Mayr's orders when he joined the tiny German Workers Party and began to build it up..." (64) Delmer says Mayr also funded mass meetings and pamphlets in which Hitler railed against the Jews. "This anti-Jewish campaign ...was being promoted by no less a power than the Staff Officers of the Reichswehr." (63)

The Reichwehr's purpose was to create popular political support for WW2. According to Delmer, "Schleicher paid out no less than two million pounds from the Reichswehr's secret funds for the Nazi storm troopers..." (120) They were also funded by Illuminati industrialists and bankers.

(Born and raised in Berlin, Sefton Delmer knew Hitler personally, and had a wide range of confidential sources. During the war, he took charge of British "black propaganda" running a range of radio stations aimed at German soldiers.)

HITLER, "ANTI-COMMUNIST, ANTI-SEMITE"

Communism, Nazism and Zionism are triplets, movements conceived and nurtured by the Illuminati to dupe and manipulate humanity.

In his book "The Hidden Hitler" Lothar Machtan, a Professor of History at Bremen University says Hitler almost joined the Communists in 1918. He demanded a senior party post that would have exempted him from work but they refused. "Hitler did not set foot in the extreme right wing camp until he had been rejected by left wing groups," Machtan writes. (71)

This book asserts that Hitler was an active homosexual with a thick police file of molestation complaints both in Vienna and Munich.

According to Ian Kershaw, Hitler took part in pro Socialist and Communist demonstrations in 1918-1919 and served as a Socialist Soldiers' Council representative. ("Hitler: 1889-1936 Hubris, p 118-120.)

According to Brigitte Hamann, Hitler's best friends in pre-war Vienna were Jewish. He benefited from Jewish charities and hospitality. Jews bought most of his artwork. For this reason, real anti-Semites shunned him. ("Hitler's Vienna: A Dictator's Apprenticeship, pp.347-352)

Hamann suggests that Hitler's ideas of Aryan racial purity and superiority were based on the Jews. She quotes Hitler:

"Through Moses the Jewish people received a rule for life and living one's life that was elevated to a religion which was entirely tailored toward the essence of one's race, and simply and clearly without dogmas and dubious rules of faith...contains what served the ...well being of one's people, nothing toward consideration of others." (351)

CONCLUSION

There is nostalgia for Hitler, in the belief that he represented resistance to the New World Order. In fact, he was created by the Illuminati to start another war. It is possible that he broke with them at some point. On the other hand, he may have deliberately sabotaged the Nazi cause by not promising to liberate the people under Communist yoke.

Similarly, Hitler's crusade against ordinary Jews was gratuitous and self-defeating, costing Germany international support and the atomic bomb. The anti-Semitic campaign seems tailored by the Illuminati to create racial strife and traumatize Jews into advancing the Zionist agenda. The intermarriage rate in Germany was 60%; in another generation German Jews would have been of little value as Illuminati pawns.

People pin their hopes on leaders like Putin and Ahmadinejad but like Hitler, they were obscure figures who were raised to power by an unseen hand. We don't have real political (or cultural) leaders, just Illuminati pawns.

Human history is always the same: A minority wants to monopolize all power and wealth, at the expense of the many.

Mass serial killers are in charge. No matter how they make nice, they will always revert to form. Iraq and 9-11 are examples.

If only they could devote their energy to good instead of evil, the world would be full of natural joy.
----

Some sources in this article were suggested by Jim Condit's fine documentary "The Final Solution to Adolph Hitler"

""Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry for a Zionist State. Everything was done to create a state of Israel and that was only possible through a world war. Wall Street and Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are also to blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988." (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star, March 31, 1988)."

-----

Major Robert H. Williams reported in his "Williams Intelligence Summary" for February 1950 about James P. Warburg's part in the plot against Christendom. He said: "Last November, the widow of the late General Ludendorff, on trial at Nuremberg, explained why her husband broke with Hiter, confirmed the reports in convincing detail.

She stated that, '...as early as the summer of 1929 James P. Warburg had undertaken an assignment from financial circles in America, which desired to exercise solitary influence on Germany in the unleashing of a national revolution. Warburg's task was to find the suitable man in Germany, and he entered into contract with Adolph Hitler who subequently received sums of money amounting to 27 million dollars up to January 30, 1932, and still another seven million thereafter, enabling him to finance his movement.'"

See also Ted Lang "The Hitler Project"

Anthony Sutton "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler"

and my "Was Hitler an Illuminati Agent?"

----

[nickatnoon61]

ADIMON..........TRY this for a little starter..............;)





---- Thanx lizzy....:)

[nickatnoon61]

************************************************** *******************************************
Why have Jews been persecuted
I have had this some time and after editing out some of it I have decided to pass it on.
The sender has requested that it be passed on by others.
the Jews had been expelled from 79 countries, some countries more than once. Why?
************************************************** *******************************************

By Jayne Gardener


I always used to wonder what it was about Jews that made people throughout history despise them. If they were indeed "God's chosen" I thought, they had to be the unluckiest people in the history of the world.

Why were they persecuted throughout history?

Why had the Nazis herded them into cattle cars and taken them to "extermination camps" to dispose once and for all of the "Jewish problem?"

I suddenly recognized that if Hitler had developed a "Final Solution" to the Jewish question, that there had to have been a "Jewish Problem." Could the Jews have in any way behaved in such a manner that would make the countries in which they resided turn against them, or were they just unfortunate, innocent victims?

I set out to find answers for my questions, mainly turning to the Internet, but also reading various books on the subject. What I found became increasingly disturbing to me.

I had not known that throughout history, the Jews had been expelled from 79 countries, some countries more than once.

I had not known that many of the claims they made about the Holocaust that I had believed unquestioningly for so long were in fact fraudulent.

The books I had read and the movies I had seen about the "Holocaust" and wept over were nothing but thinly veiled attempts to garner unwavering sympathy for the state of Israel and an excuse to extort billions of dollars from Germany and 1.25 billion dollars from the Swiss banks.

I discovered that a book I had read many times as a teenager and cried about, Anne Frank's Diary, had been at least partially written by someone other than Anne Frank.

I learned that the confessions at the Nuremburg Trials and the executions of so many German "war criminals" were were extracted under torture and the defendants were being tried, judged and condemned by their very accusers.

I learned about the "false flag" operations, especially the Lavon affair and the tragedy of the USS Liberty, an American ship that was attacked by the Israelis during the 1967 war. 34 young American men were killed and many more wounded.

To add insult to injury, the Israelis claimed that it was simply an unfortunate case of mistaken identity, something the survivors of the Liberty have always vehemently denied. They, however, were threatened with court martial if they were ever to tell their stories.

I learned about the Jonathan Pollard spy case and other incidents of Israeli Jews spying against their supposed "closest ally."

I became shocked and horrified as I learned about the treatment of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories at the hands of the Israeli Defense Forces and the Jewish settlers. Israel purports to be the only democracy in the middle east, but it's only a democracy for Jews. Non-Jews are not considered equal.

I was saddened to see pictures of innocent Palestinian children burned beyond recognition or suffering from serious gunshot wounds after being targeted by the IDF for no other reason than that they are Palestinian.

I found out about the Jewish history of avariciousness, larceny, lying, manipulation and their questionable and usurious business practices.

I learned about their roles in the radical homosexual movement, the radical feminist movement, the pornography industry as well as their over-representation in the abortion industry.

I discovered their role in organized crime, in the slave trade, in the civil rights movement and in Communism, an ideology that is responsible for the deaths of untold millions and the repression of many millions more.

I learned that it was Jewish supremacists behind the war against Christianity and Christmas. It is they who want God out of the Pledge of Allegiance and all symbols of Christianity removed from public life.

They have driven Christianity from the public schools despite Christianity being the majority religion.

They have taken Christmas out of the public school calendar despite the fact that it is a statutory holiday and it is named Christmas.

I read about the anti-Gentilism and hatefulness of the Babylonian Talmud and their utter disrespect for, and hostility towards Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary and Christianity and Christians in general.

I learned about their "chutzpah" in claiming that Gentile lives were worth no more than the lives of barnyard animals but that they considered Jewish lives to be akin to God Himself. It's okay to steal from a Gentile or to kill a Gentile, but Jewish lives are sacred.

I learned of their control of the majority of wealth, the media and academia despite them making up less than 2% of the population (even lower in Canada).

They are behind the ridiculous political correctness movement and hate crime legislation that was drafted so as to silence anyone who might figure out their agenda and attempt to shed light on it.

Men like German Rudolf, David Irving and many more, previously recognized as great historians, were arrested, charged with hate crimes and incarcerated simply for having made academic inquiry into a specific period of history.

Other so called "revisionists" or "holocaust deniers" have been intimidated, harassed, assaulted and smeared simply for trying to get at the truth.

I found out that the Jews are responsible for our wide open immigration policies that have created the nightmare we call "multiculturalism," "diversity," inclusiveness" and "pluralism."

It is mostly they who push for race mixing and miscegenation, knowing full well that it would eventually lead to those of white European descent being minorities in their own countries and the eventual extermination of white European DNA.

It is patently clear that the war in Iraq is due solely to Israel wanting to hobble her enemies by destabilizing their governments in order to achieve hegemony in the middle east.

It would be unthinkable for Israeli Jews to die for this cause, so they manipulated the US into the war with the help of the Jewish Zionist "Israel firsters" in the Bush administration in order that the blood of way too many young American men and women is shed instead.

It is they who control the middle eastern foreign policy of the most powerful country in the world, the USA. It is they who control congress, the senate and the puppet president, George W. Bush.

They have such control in movies and television that we are now subjected to endless programs and Hollywood movies that mock Christianity, Christian values and degrade the traditional family.

After sober reflection on what I had discovered about Jewish supremacy and Zionism, I had to abandon all my previously held notions as to the history of Jewish persecution.

What I have trouble understanding is why they continue this behavior in whichever society they live, knowing that eventually they will overplay their hand and their perfidy will be exposed yet again. Has history taught them nothing?

As more and more people become aware of what is going on and who is responsible for it, anger is going to rise as it already has in the former Soviet Union and eastern European countries.

They may control television, movies and the print media, but they don't control the internet. At least not yet. Blogs and websites devoted to "outing" the Jewish supremacists will ultimately be their downfall.

If everyone who sees this information passes it on to at least one other person, the crimes and misdeeds of the Jewish supremacists and Zionists will be exposed and they will have nowhere to run or hide (except Israel).

Please, do your part. Pass it on. Our world as we know it is counting on you.

Posted by Jayne Gardener

================================================== ================================
I do not hate Jews, neither does it seem this person does, it does seem she did her home work. I have known Jews who seemed very nice, and have been stabbed in the back so to speak by some of them as well. I hope I never have to trust one again.

They were never the "chosen people" they were the "Covenant People", however, they for the most part have violated that covenant and apostatized from God and their covenant. "We don't want to be the Lord's people." To each his own.

Most of the time when I get an email about Jews there is something very negative about it, or a bald faced lie, whether put out by them or their enemies. I just don't find anything false in this email.

I read an article one time that 25% of Jews are Atheists - who believe there is no God; 50% are agnostics - they don't know if there is a God or not; and 25% of them believe in God. Of those 25% most do not believe in Christ, their favorite literature is not the Torra which are the first 5 books of the old testament, it is as Jesus put it the "Traditions of men". Jesus said, you make the laws of God of none effect by your tradition. This group of literature is called the "Talmud" a 63 volume set taking up 12 feet of book shelf. Nothing I have read in any of those books contain anything close to what you know about God. In fact, the Talmud is diametrically opposed to the Bible. It is their religion that makes them the way they are - they Apostatized - from God over 2,000 years ago. I find this email very accurate. I know nothing positive to say about this religion / people, by their fruits ye shall know them do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? No they do not.

I have no desire to cause them problems, at the same time I have no desire to protect them nor lie for them.
"A Jew must always try to deceive a Christian."
"Jesus Christ was an illegitimate bastard, the son of a Jewish whore and a Roman soldier, conceived during menstruation and is presently being boiled in human dung for eternity for his sins."
There is nothing wrong with having sex with a girl under 3 because her virginity will grow back, add nausium.
Only Jews have a soul.

As for being the apple of God's eye, that is a quote from the Talmud, written by Rabbis and is the "Traditions of Men".

Henry Ford: A Christian can not look upon his scriptures except through Jewish spectacles.

Think about it boys and girls - 12 feet of book shelf - which is their holy book.
Vengeance is Mine saith the Lord I will repay.

For a version of what the Bible says about them read Revelation 2:9, and 3:9, then read Jeremiah 24 - about 1/2 page.

I am James Elmer :-)

[nickatnoon61]

YouTube - 100% Proof Devil Worshipping Zionist Jews Controlling Media

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DCEJvoQl404
On the David Icke Forum the naysayers(useful idiots) and ADL lackeys have never denied this ownership of the media by the Khazar Jews. They just call anyone who posts this nazis,anti-semites,and racists. Nazi could stand for National Zionism, a semite is a palestinean,(that makes the Khazar Jews the biggest anti-semites in the world)and who are the BIGGEST racists in the world. The Khazar Jews of course!!! I am sure it is written somewhere, to call your enemies everything that you are yourself, to turn public opinion against that enemy. THE JEW IS THE FATHER OF THE LIE!!! Nick.
__________________

[mynameis]

YouTube - 100% Proof Devil Worshipping Zionist Jews Controlling Media

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DCEJvoQl404
On the David Icke Forum the naysayers(useful idiots) and ADL lackeys have never denied this ownership of the media by the Khazar Jews. They just call anyone who posts this nazis,anti-semites,and racists. Nazi could stand for National Zionism, a semite is a palestinean,(that makes the Khazar Jews the biggest anti-semites in the world)and who are the BIGGEST racists in the world. The Khazar Jews of course!!! I am sure it is written somewhere, to call your enemies everything that you are yourself, to turn public opinion against that enemy. THE JEW IS THE FATHER OF THE LIE!!! Nick.
__________________

Off topic much. You must have trouble believing that there aren't people like the Khazar's up at night plotting your demise. LMAO. Jewish people are no more dangerous than zionists, islamists, christians, catholics, buddists, hindis, and David Ickers.

[lgorenc]

I used to have sympathy for the Jews. I guess that was passed by my mother who often went to Israel and she adores that nation. But...
I started to have doubts about Holocaust when I first read about people being jailed for deniying it. Why should you put in jail someone who claims there ain't no sun or the moon, I thought. Well, because this was a best kept conspiracy for the last 70 years.
People find it disgusting to even talk about it. You cannot get someone to go deeper into this matter, because human brain finds it appaling. That's why it was so easy to lie to us.
Who profited from the WWII? Americans and Jews. Americans are now owners of Europe, and Jews have their country after 2000 years and are a nuclear force to be reckoned with. Who told us about Holocaust? Americans and Jews. Hmmm...

But after seeing some "documentaries" it is more and more obvious to me that this was a hoax. I'm not saying that people didn't die or that they were not persecuted, it was a cruel war. But I don't think 6 million Jews were systematically gased and burned. From what I have seen, it has been proven impossible.
Just imagine, more than 20 million Russians died in WWII with no "final solution", how about that? Jews are those who are commiting atrocities nowadays and the world is turning a blind eye.

[nickatnoon61]

Off topic much. You must have trouble believing that there aren't people like the Khazar's up at night plotting your demise. LMAO. Jewish people are no more dangerous than zionists, islamists, christians, catholics, buddists, hindis, and David Ickers.Thanx MN, you may go back to sleep now..........

[mynameis]

Sure after you explain why there's motives and results to those motives in these words. I think their own words sum up nice what happened. If you're cooking soup too much, I can see why this department isn't your strong soup.

Eyewitness Accounts: The Nazis:
Eichmann
"I remember clearly the first time he guided me around the camp. He showed me everything, and at the end he took me to a grave where the corpses of the gassed Jews lay piled on a strong iron grill. Hoess's men poured some inflammable liquid over them and set them on fire. The flesh stewed like stew meat. The sight made such an impression on me that today, after a dozen years, I can still see that mountain of corpses in front of me. Hoess may have seen disgust in my face, but I spoke to him sternly: "When I see your corpses, I think of those charred German bodies in the air-raid shelters in Berlin. From About.Com: Einsatzgruppen


Hitler on His Plans for the Jews
'Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example - as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews.' 1) Josef Hell, "Aufzeichnung," 1922, ZS 640, p. 5, Institut für Zeitgeschichte. Der Gerade Weg.


Himmler's Account
October 1943:to SS group leaders,

"...It is one of those things which is easy to say. 'The Jewish race is to be exterminated,' says every party member. 'That's clear, it's part of our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, right, we'll do it.' And then they all come along, the eighty million good Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are swine, but this one is a first-class Jew. Of all those who talk like this, not one has watched, not one has stood up to it. Most of you know what it means to see a hundred corpses lying together, five hundred, or a thousand. To have gone through this and yet - apart from a few exceptions, examples of human weakness - to have remained decent fellows, this is what has made us hard."


From “the History Place”
From Hoess
March 16, 1946, Hoss made the following statement: "I personally arranged on orders received from Himmler in May 1941 the gassing of two million persons between June and July 1941 and 1943."



MILITARY EYEWITNESSES:
104th Infantry division:USVII Corp: On Entering Mittelbau-Dora

This quote may be found on the page: www.104infdiv.org

Bombs had ground flesh and bones into the cement floor. Rows upon rows of skin-covered skeletons met our eyes. Men lay as they starved, discolored, and lying in indescribable human filth. Their striped coats and prison numbers hung to their frames as a last token of those who enslaved and killed them. In this large motor shop there were no living beings; only the distorted dead. We went to the stairs and under the casing were neatly piled about seventy-five bodies, a sight I could never erase from memories. Dying on the second floor were, upon later count, about twenty-five men or half-men. Some of these, lying in double-decked wooden bedsteads, were grotesquely still, yet hanging tenaciously to life's breath. They were still alive.


Account on Nordhausen
USHMM:Nordhausen

We went downstairs into a filth indescribable, accompanied by a horrible dead-rot stench. There in beds of crude wood I saw men too weak to move dead comrades from their side. One hunched-down French boy was huddled up against a dead comrade, as if to keep warm, having no concept that the friend had been dead two or three days and unable to move his own limbs. There were others, in dark cellar rooms, lying in disease and filth, being eaten away by diarrhea and malnutrition. It was like stepping into the Dark Ages to walk into one of these cellar-cells and seek out the living; like walking into a world apart and returning to bring these shadow-men into the environment of a clean American ambulance. In one bomb crater lay about twenty bodies. We pulled three or four feebly struggling living ones from the bottom of the pile; they had been struggling for five or six days to get out but the weight of the other bodies piled on them had been too much for their starved, emaciated frames. We saw those on a bank who had been cut down by machine guns in trying to escape the fury of the guards. I saw one man feebly stagger to attention and salute us as tears slowly trickled down his cheeks. Too weak to walk, this man was genuinely moved to pay tribute to those who were helping him - showing him the first kind act in years. A few men were able to walk on their swollen, bulging feet; they had no shoes and they were unbelievably dirty. There were lash marks on many of their scantily covered backs - definite proof of beatings and floggings by their inhuman guards. One Parisian business told me he had been kicked and beaten repeatedly. He was comparatively healthy, as he had been in camp only three months. He told me that many of the 3,000 dead in the camp had been worked, beaten and forced at top speed until they could work on longer, after which they were starved off or killed outright."


99th Chemical Mortar Battalion

..."Bob Dodge still has nightmares about what he saw while making deliveries for his supply sergeant during the war. "At first we saw dead horses, and we got sick and were vomiting from the stink," the 80-year-old Birnamwood man said. "As we drove on we saw a whole bunch -- maybe 45 or 50 people -- in the ditch alongside the road. The Nazis must have been marching them somewhere. It looked like each one had a bullet hole in their head. There was gasoline on them, and they had been lit on fire." Dodge, who was drafted into the U.S. Army and served in the 99th Chemical Mortar Battalion, was overseas for six months and said he still wakes up "with all these dreams." While he was never injured, witnessing the war was "sickening to (his) brain."

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Okay video part 23 on the page from the link above, seem too suggest that the burning of the bodies by alleged eyewitness isn't possible. meaning it's more lies and anti German propaganda.

Another thing is Civilians living outside and real close to the camps would of caught on? Also, the fences were way to close to the trees on the outside, if those fires ( as alleged by witness where so huge then the trees outside the camp fence and the camp fence itself would of caught fire :rolleyes:The only bodies ever burnt at the camps were people who'd died from natural causes, disease etc. The gas cambers are another hoax see this myth debunked in the other videos. The Jews were deloused not gassed to death.

Eyewitness Accounts: The Nazis:
Eichmann
"I remember clearly the first time he guided me around the camp. He showed me everything, and at the end he took me to a grave where the corpses of the gassed Jews lay piled on a strong iron grill. Hoess's men poured some inflammable liquid over them and set them on fire. The flesh stewed like stew meat. The sight made such an impression on me that today, after a dozen years, I can still see that mountain of corpses in front of me. Hoess may have seen disgust in my face, but I spoke to him sternly: "When I see your corpses, I think of those charred German bodies in the air-raid shelters in Berlin. From About.Com: Einsatzgruppen

[mynameis]

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Okay video part 23 on the page from the link above, seem too suggest that the burning of the bodies by alleged eyewitness isn't possible. meaning it's more lies and anti German propaganda.

That is the most stupid argument I've ever heard. Who says they are witnessing the same event of atrocity?

[damagedbrainn]

Even cremated bodies leave bones behind, from what I have heard. If Germany and Poland are not peppered with thousands of huge mass graves, that is a big problem for the Holocaust, isn't it?

No they don't. Have you never heard of placing someone's ashes in an urn after they're cremated? Bones burn too. The most difficult part of the body to reduce to ashes is the heart.

[paganus]

No they don't. Have you never heard of placing someone's ashes in an urn after they're cremated? Bones burn too. The most difficult part of the body to reduce to ashes is the heart.actually larger bones have to be ground to a powder.in a crematoriam,there is a mechanism like two steel balls that grind the bones.

[damagedbrainn]

I used to have sympathy for the Jews. I guess that was passed by my mother who often went to Israel and she adores that nation. But...
I started to have doubts about Holocaust when I first read about people being jailed for deniying it. Why should you put in jail someone who claims there ain't no sun or the moon, I thought. Well, because this was a best kept conspiracy for the last 70 years.
People find it disgusting to even talk about it. You cannot get someone to go deeper into this matter, because human brain finds it appaling. That's why it was so easy to lie to us.
Who profited from the WWII? Americans and Jews. Americans are now owners of Europe, and Jews have their country after 2000 years and are a nuclear force to be reckoned with. Who told us about Holocaust? Americans and Jews. Hmmm...

But after seeing some "documentaries" it is more and more obvious to me that this was a hoax. I'm not saying that people didn't die or that they were not persecuted, it was a cruel war. But I don't think 6 million Jews were systematically gased and burned. From what I have seen, it has been proven impossible.
Just imagine, more than 20 million Russians died in WWII with no "final solution", how about that? Jews are those who are commiting atrocities nowadays and the world is turning a blind eye.

How many countries, and how much political authority, have Christian Whites had over the centuries? How many countries do Muslims have?

Jews have ONE country and people see that as proof of a Jewish Conspiracy to take over the world. Talk about irrational, bigoted double standards.

[damagedbrainn]

actually larger bones have to be ground to a powder.in a crematoriam,there is a mechanism like two steel balls that grind the bones.

You mean scattered fragments of bones (hard calcium), not entire skeletons, or even a whole femur or any other.

Cremation of bodies does not necessitate mass burials.

[paganus]

You mean scattered fragments of bones (hard calcium), not entire skeletons, or even a whole femur or any other.

Cremation of bodies does not necessitate mass burials.no,i mean bones like the femur.teeth are pretty difficult to burn too.

[damagedbrainn]

no,i mean bones like the femur.teeth are pretty difficult to burn too.

Well then you would be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crematorium#Burning_and_ashes_collection

[damagedbrainn]

then a friend of mine who works in the crematorium is lying? why?

No, this one guy that you know and you're interpretation of whatever it is that he told you is 100% correct, and every single source available on cremation is wrong.

[paganus]

No, this one guy that you know and you're interpretation of whatever it is that he told you is 100% correct, and every single source available on cremation is wrong.THIS FROM A FUNERAL HOMES WEBSITE:
Question #5 Is a cremated body processed (pulverized)?
Why is this done?
How is it accomplished?
Answer: A cremated body is processed to facilitate memorialization and inurnment. The larger bones of the body are not reduced that significantly during incineration, so processing is necessary so they can be inurned. Processing also makes it acceptable for scattering, so that certain bones are not identifiable to the person performing the scattering (eg. a jaw bone, femur, etc.). A form of processing may include pulverizing the bones, using a machine expecially for this purpose.

[paganus]

my above posted information obtained from: http://www.dartefuneralhome.com/cremation_information_-16879.html

[damagedbrainn]

THIS FROM A FUNERAL HOMES WEBSITE:
Question #5 Is a cremated body processed (pulverized)?
Why is this done?
How is it accomplished?
Answer: A cremated body is processed to facilitate memorialization and inurnment. The larger bones of the body are not reduced that significantly during incineration, so processing is necessary so they can be inurned. Processing also makes it acceptable for scattering, so that certain bones are not identifiable to the person performing the scattering (eg. a jaw bone, femur, etc.). A form of processing may include pulverizing the bones, using a machine expecially for this purpose.

You can quote the website, but can't link to it?

Here:

http://www.nfda.org/page.php?pID=160#bonesashes

"A complete cremation is a two-step process. Firstly, the actual exposure of the deceased to several hours of intense heat and flame; after which the remains are mostly ash except for certain bone fragments, then the entire remaining ash and fragment volume is gathered and run through a processor, creating a uniform powder-like texture."

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20080219124745AAv4xZM

Christ man, just do a search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cremation+bones&hl=en&start=30&sa=N

[paganus]

You can quote the website, but can't link to it?

Here:

http://www.nfda.org/page.php?pID=160#bonesashes

"A complete cremation is a two-step process. Firstly, the actual exposure of the deceased to several hours of intense heat and flame; after which the remains are mostly ash except for certain bone fragments, then the entire remaining ash and fragment volume is gathered and run through a processor, creating a uniform powder-like texture."

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20080219124745AAv4xZM

Christ man, just do a search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cremation+bones&hl=en&start=30&sa=Nwhy cant you use the link? just click on it!

[damagedbrainn]

why cant you use the link? just click on it!

404 Not Found

You can click on my links though.

Bottom line: Cremation does not leave behind enough remains to warrant the use of mass graves. That would completely defeat the purpose of cremation.

[paganus]

404 Not Found

You can click on my links though.

Bottom line: Cremation does not leave behind enough remains to warrant the use of mass graves. That would completely defeat the purpose of cremation.your links arent from a funeral home.and forget wikipidia.i'll try and fix link.

[paganus]

http://www.dartefuneralhome.com/

[paganus]

that'll get you to the site.just click 'cremation information' in box on left.

[damagedbrainn]

why cant you use the link? just click on it!

Also:

If a femur or jawbone is left behind after cremation, then it wasn't done properly. Just use your common sense. If a crematorium isn't hot enough to finish off a femur or a jaw, then what about the rest of the skeleton? Wouldn't the entire skeleton (minus the cartilage) remain? It can't burn the jawbone, but it can burn the rest of the skull? It can't burn a femur, but has no problem with the hipbones?

[paganus]

The Cremation Process
The waiting
You probably won't be cremated straight away, since there isn't always a cremator available. The mourners may have already left the crematorium by the time you are cremated. The coffin is cremated with the body. The coffin handles are probably plastic and melt in the intense heat.


All alone
As an adult you will probably be cremated alone. The primary chamber of the cremator (where you are placed for cremation) is usually only big enough for one coffin. Although, in many areas a mother and infant can be cremated together (as long as they arrive at the crematorium in the same coffin). Also there is provision in some parts of the North America to allow a husband and wife burn together, if they do not exceed the capacity of the cremator.

The commital
When the gas fired cremator is heated up to around 1450 degrees F it is ready for your coffin. If the cremator is too hot when your coffin goes in, a "flash ignition" could occur. In this case your coffin would be alight before it was fully in the chamber and you could set the cremator room on fire!
The operator lines up the cataflaque with the mouth of the cremator, stands well back, presses a button, and you are slid into the cremator. You will go into the cremator head first. Going in head first helps with the drainage. The operator then closes the door. The flame port - a giant blow torch nozel sitting above your chest - blasts your coffin with a 2800 degrees F jet of flame.


Burning Up
Once your coffin has ignited the burner is turned off as the temperature is now enough to sustain your combustion. Your coffin soon collapses. At this point your cremation may get out of control and and produce lots of smoke or over heat the cremation unit. (Although part of me finds the merciless efficiency of modern cremation awesome - another part likes to think that I might just cause a hiccup in the process).
The flames now attack you directly. Your skin and hair immediately scorch, char, and burn. You and I are 85% water. You will burn outside to inside in a rapid cycle of layer-by-layer dehydration and ignition. The heat dries out your skin; which then ignites. Your next layer - muscle and fat - dries out. Your muscle and fat ignites. Air to feed this process is provided through jets in the ceiling or sides of the primary chamber The burning of your fat raises the temperature to 1900 degrees F. It stays at this level until 80% of you has been consumed. After the muscle and fat your internal organs burn.
You may have read that your skull explodes as your brain boils, and that your stomach will also explode. In fact the stomach and brain rarely explode. More likely the top of your cranium will crack and your brain fall out on to the hearth. It has also been said that early in the cremation process the heat causes the trunk to flex forwards violently so that the body suddenly 'sits up,' bursting open the lid of the coffin. This too is a myth.

Burning Safely
Not your safety of course, you are dead, and in any case the whole point of the process is your destruction. But there are a number of risks to crematorium staff and equipment. Heart pacemakers, whose batteries ignite in the intense heat, must be removed prior to cremation. Many crematoriums refuse to allow possessions to be cremated along with there owner. In Sweden explosive farewell tokens such as bottles of alcohol, ammunition cartridges and pieces of fireworks have been put in coffins.
Silicon breast implants have been known to explode during cremation. So you could go out with quite a bang, although reports from Southern California say the silicone turned into a sticky goo on the floor of the cremator. On the other hand, a UK crematorium had no difficulties in a test it ran

Who burns best?
Different people burn differently. If you thin without much fat, you will be more difficult to burn, since you are a mass of wet tissue. I have a moderate amount of fat, so will be much easier to cremate. My fat will ignite instantly on the application of flame and produce a great surge of heat. If you are obese cremating you will be "like burning kerosene" (according to a cremation furnace manufacturer). I have read reports of fat from larger bodies actually running out the cremator door burning as it goes. The worst to burn are bodies that have died in fires as the charring makes a crust that doesn't ignite well or drowning victims because of the extreme water levels.
Under Control
The whole of your cremation will be micro-processor controlled. The computer will make sure that your cremation is well under control, clean and fuel efficient. The operator will be checking your progress to ensure that the cremation is carried out safely.

Out of the chimney
You should be coming out of the chimney as steam and carbon dioxide. All ready to feed the plants that fed you. Unfortunately your cremation will produce lots of nasty pollutants too. Mercury (from your fillings), carbon monoxide, hydrogen chloride, and smoke. To keep you from polluting the environment the products of your cremation go into a second chamber where a secondary burner burns off any remaining gases and smoke particles. Your gases might even go through filter bags to clean them further. However, no system is perfect, you still might manage to puff brown smoke out of the chimney for a couple of minutes.

Keeping the neighbours warm
Heat from cremation furnaces in some Swedish crematories is absorbed into the city heating network. Neat idea, but it must feel a bit funny warming your toes on the heat generated by reducing someone to ashes.

Burning Down
As the tissue of your body is destroyed your skeleton is exposed. The bones in your hands and feet will appear first as they have less muscle and fat to cover them. In time your hands and feet will drop away from your arms and legs. The bones in your hands and feet stay united by their ligaments for a little while after this.
Your stomach will burn quite slowly, your lungs more slowly still. Your brain is especially resistant to complete combustion. Your liver and spleen will probably be the last organs burn because they are high in moisture. As your internal organs are consumed your spine will become visible and the temperature will drop to 1600 degrees F. In the words of one writer you will briefly be "an awesome sight: the magnificent structure of a human skeleton glowing".
Your cremation continues as your skeleton falls apart. At this point your spinal column, hips and skull will still be identifiable and some of your organs will remain. The main burner may get turned on to finish reducing you to lumps of calcium, or more high pressure air and the radiant heat stored in the brickwork may be enough to complete the process.

Times Up
It could take between 45 minutes and 2 hours to cremate you. As I said fat bodies burn faster. Small bodies are quick because there is not a lot of fuel (that's us fuel for the furnace) to consume. Some furnaces are more powerful than others. Some burn human beings at a rate of 100 lbs an hour, for others it is 200 lbs an hour. (That means I'll take between 1 and 2 hours!)

Raking Out
There are no flames at this stage, but the chamber bed glows orange. Small chunks of whitish- gray debris lie in the oven. Perhaps a particularly large clump sits about halfway back, just about where your hip was. You have been reduced to burnt bone fragments.
The operator opens the door of the cremator and vigorously rakes the silvery debris - all that remains of you - into a chute that leads down to a stainless steel bin. You make a clinking sound as you move - like embers being stirred in a fireplace. You now weigh between 4 and 8 pounds.

Cooling Off
Your remnants are now left to cool. Several of your bones will be clearly visible among the cooling chips and chunks. Perhaps a piece of hip. Perhaps an 8 -inch strip from your arm. Maybe a ball that once fitted your hip or shoulder. In fact, your entire skeleton will be there. Our bones are largely calcium, which burns only after lengthy exposure to temperatures much higher than those in the cremator.
Magnetic Attraction
A powerful magnet will remove any metal from your ashes. Artificial joints and heart valves will be taken out and later buried in the crematorium grounds. Your silver and gold jewelry will have melted and fused with your ashes.

Death's a grind
Once you have cooled down you will be poured into a machine called a cremulator. The cremulator resembles a small spin dryer. A drum slightly larger than a paint can sits inside. The operator closes the lid and hits a switch. Metal balls grind you into smaller and smaller particles. You are ground down to something with the texture of sand. You then drop through a perforated sieve into a metal pan below. It will take about 20 minutes to complete the processing of your ashes.

[paganus]

you will see from the above that the hips/arms are quite often left.

[damagedbrainn]

you will see from the above that the hips/arms are quite often left.

"Your remnants are now left to cool. Several of your bones will be clearly visible among the cooling chips and chunks. Perhaps a piece of hip. Perhaps an 8 -inch strip from your arm. Maybe a ball that once fitted your hip or shoulder. In fact, your entire skeleton will be there."

It says "chips and chunks". Then contradicts itself by saying your entire skeleton will be there.

Good source.

[paganus]

"Your remnants are now left to cool. Several of your bones will be clearly visible among the cooling chips and chunks. Perhaps a piece of hip. Perhaps an 8 -inch strip from your arm. Maybe a ball that once fitted your hip or shoulder. In fact, your entire skeleton will be there."

It says "chips and chunks". Then contradicts itself by saying your entire skeleton will be there.

Good source.i think without sinews,skeletons are 'chips and chunks';)

[damagedbrainn]

i think without sinews,skeletons are 'chips and chunks';)

Then you've never seen a skeleton.

Rather, I think it meant that "chips and chunks" of the entire skeleton will remain, not literally every bone that makes up the skeleton. It was poorly worded.

[paganus]

Then you've never seen a skeleton.

Rather, I think it meant that "chips and chunks" of the entire skeleton will remain, not literally every bone that makes up the skeleton. It was poorly worded.yes.i have seen a skeleton.if not wired together in medical teaching class,theyre just a pile of,er,chips and chunks

[damagedbrainn]

From the Wikipedia article (which itself is sourced from the Journal of Forensic Science):

All that remains after cremation are dry bone fragments (mostly calcium phosphates and minor minerals). These represent roughly 3.5% of the body's original mass (2.5% in children, but these figures vary greatly due to body composition).

Again, bottom line is, cremated remains (apparently representing only 3.5% of the body's original mass) doesn't require mass burials or whatever rubbish people are attempting to push in this thread.

[damagedbrainn]

yes.i have seen a skeleton.if not wired together in medical teaching class,theyre just a pile of,er,chips and chunks

Yeah, if you're willing to take a VERY liberal view of what qualifies as a chip and/or a chunk.

[paganus]

Yeah, if you're willing to take a VERY liberal view of what qualifies as a chip and/or a chunk.im a pretty liberal guy!

[damagedbrainn]

im a pretty liberal guy!

So liberal that an entire skull or cradle-hip bone is just a "chunk".

[paganus]

So liberal that an entire skull or cradle-hip bone is just a "chunk".its a chunk of bone.so,yes.

[paganus]

chunk (chngk)
n.
1. A thick mass or piece: a chunk of ice.
2. Informal A substantial amount: won quite a chunk of money.
3. A strong stocky horse.
v. chunked, chunk·ing, chunks
v.tr.
To form into chunks.
v.intr.
To make a dull clacking sound: listened to the rundown copier chunk along.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[damagedbrainn]

its a chunk of bone.so,yes.

Most people would refer to an entire skull as a "skull", or a hipbone as a "hipbone" not a "piece of a hip".

For fuck sake, you can even see a picture of the remains in one of the links I posted. You're just being stubborn.

[paganus]

Most people would refer to an entire skull as a "skull", or a hipbone as a "hipbone" not a "piece of a hip".

For fuck sake, you can even see a picture of the remains in one of the links I posted. You're just being stubborn.or very thorough..

[damagedbrainn]

Wow! Look! It's an entire skeleton!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Cremation4.jpg

[paganus]

Wow! Look! It's an entire skeleton!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Cremation4.jpgthe rest is probably out of shot!

[mynameis]

Wow! Look! It's an entire skeleton!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Cremation4.jpg

Grandmama?

[eternal_spirit]

THIS FROM A FUNERAL HOMES WEBSITE:
Question #5 Is a cremated body processed (pulverized)?
Why is this done?
How is it accomplished?
Answer: A cremated body is processed to facilitate memorialization and inurnment. The larger bones of the body are not reduced that significantly during incineration, so processing is necessary so they can be inurned. Processing also makes it acceptable for scattering, so that certain bones are not identifiable to the person performing the scattering (eg. a jaw bone, femur, etc.). A form of processing may include pulverizing the bones, using a machine expecially for this purpose.

.............................................

According to the jewish eyewitness liars they crushed the bones with nothing other than a wooden club while the bones were laid out on corrugated metal pieces :rolleyes:

[damagedbrainn]

the rest is probably out of shot!

Yeah, all those little fragments must just be from the feet and hands.

Notice the size of the hole...The damn dustpan is wider.

[damagedbrainn]

.............................................

According to the jewish eyewitness liars they crushed the bones with nothing other than a wooden club while the bones were laid out on corrugated metal pieces :rolleyes:

Which would be pretty easy to do with fragments.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Okay video part 23 on the page from the link above, seem too suggest that the burning of the bodies by alleged eyewitness isn't possible. meaning it's more lies and anti German propaganda.

Another thing is Civilians living outside and real close to the camps would of caught on? Also, the fences were way to close to the trees on the outside, if those fires ( as alleged by witness where so huge then the trees outside the camp fence and the camp fence itself would of caught fire :rolleyes:The only bodies ever burnt at the camps were people who'd died from natural causes, disease etc. The gas cambers are another hoax see this myth debunked in the other videos. The Jews were deloused not gassed to death.

Eyewitness Accounts: The Nazis:
Eichmann
"I remember clearly the first time he guided me around the camp. He showed me everything, and at the end he took me to a grave where the corpses of the gassed Jews lay piled on a strong iron grill. Hoess's men poured some inflammable liquid over them and set them on fire. The flesh stewed like stew meat. The sight made such an impression on me that today, after a dozen years, I can still see that mountain of corpses in front of me. Hoess may have seen disgust in my face, but I spoke to him sternly: "When I see your corpses, I think of those charred German bodies in the air-raid shelters in Berlin. From About.Com: Einsatzgruppen

Quote damagedbrainn
Which would be pretty easy to do with fragments.

Check out the short video above^^

[nickatnoon61]

THIS IS FROM MY EMAIL LOOP.....

Yes, I added little more than this one line about Eichmann being a Hebrew-speaker. I can never recall at once all things that I need to write about, which makes it pretty inconvenient. Sorry if it got a bit boring. However, the subject of Eichmann is yet to be exausted. To translate this into simple and familiar Mafia "Godfather" terms, here is what happened: the Jew gangsters kidnapped a potential witness for prosecution -- a would-be "singing canary", they set up their own (mafia) "court of law", they put this singing canary into a soundproof glass cage -- locating the microphone switch under the fingers of their own (mafia) "judge" -- and they made this poor unfortunate canary sing from their own song-sheet! Just imagine, back in the ‘60s, Cosa Nostra kidnapped Joe Valachi and, instead of immediately processing him into pet food, set up a "court" of their own and made him “sing” the lyrics about the Mafia godfathers being "men of honour", who are “unjustly persecuted” -- and only then processed him into pet food! That's exactly what happened to the poor old part-Jewish Eichmann: his position was quite identical to that of Joe Valachi, he was a guy who knew too much (about the kosher godfathers) and he had to disappear. But it's the way the Jews made him disappear: the brazenly criminal kidnapping and murder were made to look like a “triumph of justice”, no less! You must agree that justice is yet to be done to the make-believe Jewish "Eichmann trial".

[johngr]

THIS IS FROM MY EMAIL LOOP.....

Yes, I added little more than this one line about Eichmann being a Hebrew-speaker. I can never recall at once all things that I need to write about, which makes it pretty inconvenient. Sorry if it got a bit boring. However, the subject of Eichmann is yet to be exausted. To translate this into simple and familiar Mafia "Godfather" terms, here is what happened: the Jew gangsters kidnapped a potential witness for prosecution -- a would-be "singing canary", they set up their own (mafia) "court of law", they put this singing canary into a soundproof glass cage -- locating the microphone switch under the fingers of their own (mafia) "judge" -- and they made this poor unfortunate canary sing from their own song-sheet! Just imagine, back in the ‘60s, Cosa Nostra kidnapped Joe Valachi and, instead of immediately processing him into pet food, set up a "court" of their own and made him “sing” the lyrics about the Mafia godfathers being "men of honour", who are “unjustly persecuted” -- and only then processed him into pet food! That's exactly what happened to the poor old part-Jewish Eichmann: his position was quite identical to that of Joe Valachi, he was a guy who knew too much (about the kosher godfathers) and he had to disappear. But it's the way the Jews made him disappear: the brazenly criminal kidnapping and murder were made to look like a “triumph of justice”, no less! You must agree that justice is yet to be done to the make-believe Jewish "Eichmann trial".

He obviously poisoned the well in his testimony when he said that he oversaw shipping a sub diesel engine from the coast 700 kilometers inland to gas a few Jews.

[pictomtr]

The holocaust stands out as the first time in history that the full brunt of the rational and bureaucratic systems of modern society were used to murder human beings. Much of the unique horror of the holocaust comes from this form of factory line, McDonaldesque approach to death.

As with all bureaucratic systems, it is riddled with contradictions, inaccuracies, and vagueness. We only have to think of the myriad of problems that researchers encounter when looking at huge bureaucratic systems such as the UK’s national health service or the US tax system to see this. Both these systems are full of inaccuracies and contradictory reports from different elements; yet this does not mean that a) they do not exist, or that they exist in a very minor way; or that b) that with enough data from enough sources a reliable and accurate account of them can be formed.

The holocaust is made all the more difficult to study by the blatant attempts by the retreating German army to destroy large amounts of the evidence. It is further confounded by the lack of reliable information from the Russians after their occupation of the areas associated with the mechanics of the holocaust. As a result it is completely reasonable to expect there to be a large amount of problems with the evidence of the holocaust. It would arguably be more worrying if there were no holes in the accounts of the holocaust - the study of such bureaucratic systems is never accurate. I would be much more inclined to believe a conspiracy if the records were perfect - why would such an advanced and large scale conspiracy leave so many holes in their account?

What all deniers of the holocaust have to ask themselves is fairly simple. Is the existence of minor inaccuracies and contradictions in the historical analysis of a bureaucratic system, really enough to disprove the testimony and research of hundreds of thousands of people who were from both sides, and were involved in all the different areas of the holocaust?

If this question can be answered adequately by the revisionist movement, mainstream society and academia may start to contemplate taking your ideas seriously. Until this point your actions simply look like nit picking over the details of the systematic murder of millions of men, women, and children.

[paganus]

The holocaust stands out as the first time in history that the full brunt of the rational and bureaucratic systems of modern society were used to murder human beings. Much of the unique horror of the holocaust comes from this form of factory line, McDonaldesque approach to death.

As with all bureaucratic systems, it is riddled with contradictions, inaccuracies, and vagueness. We only have to think of the myriad of problems that researchers encounter when looking at huge bureaucratic systems such as the UK’s national health service or the US tax system to see this. Both these systems are full of inaccuracies and contradictory reports from different elements; yet this does not mean that a) they do not exist, or that they exist in a very minor way; or that b) that with enough data from enough sources a reliable and accurate account of them can be formed.

The holocaust is made all the more difficult to study by the blatant attempts by the retreating German army to destroy large amounts of the evidence. It is further confounded by the lack of reliable information from the Russians after their occupation of the areas associated with the mechanics of the holocaust. As a result it is completely reasonable to expect there to be a large amount of problems with the evidence of the holocaust. It would arguably be more worrying if there were no holes in the accounts of the holocaust - the study of such bureaucratic systems is never accurate. I would be much more inclined to believe a conspiracy if the records were perfect - why would such an advanced and large scale conspiracy leave so many holes in their account?

What all deniers of the holocaust have to ask themselves is fairly simple. Is the existence of minor inaccuracies and contradictions in the historical analysis of a bureaucratic system, really enough to disprove the testimony and research of hundreds of thousands of people who were from both sides, and were involved in all the different areas of the holocaust?

If this question can be answered adequately by the revisionist movement, mainstream society and academia may start to contemplate taking your ideas seriously. Until this point your actions simply look like nit picking over the details of the systematic murder of millions of men, women, and children.
the problem actually lies with the legal restrictions on disscussing it.why? i can legally claim the battle of Hastings never happened the way it did,i can legally deny the Burning Times took place(9 million murdered by the christians) so why not this one point in history?

[megafish33]

the problem actually lies with the legal restrictions on disscussing it.why? i can legally claim the battle of Hastings never happened the way it did,i can legally deny the Burning Times took place(9 million murdered by the christians) so why not this one point in history?

The Battle of Hastings was a battle. The Holocaust with a capital H describes the events of a systematic genocide and mass murder that took place RECENTLY, in a society that was thought to be very enlightened, liberal, and humane. Actually, before the wars and events that let to Hitler's rise in power, it was a very enlightened, liberal, and humane society. When you get a chance, make your next book Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning. It's a study on the German Ordnungspolizei, Reserve Unit 101. A group which was used to kill Jews or send them to the camps where they knew they would eventually have horrible deaths. Browning points out that these men, for the most part, were not hardcore Nazis, but just middle-aged men who weren't exactly fit for military duty. He argues that those Unit 101 men killed Jews out of obedience to authority and because of peer pressure, not necessarily because they were freaks of nature. The "sheeple" conspiracy theory works both ways... Some sheep don't just walk in line to their death, they form lines to kill others-others whom happened to be Jewish in those moments in time-all of this despite popular conspiracy theories that Jews control all the armies, governments, etc. Read the book, review the history of the antisemitism that flowed into that area(especially at that time in particular), then, as pictomtr mentioned, read up on just how easy it was(and IS) to kill waves of people(and how some have attempted to cover it up!)... and it will all just click one day. Yeah, I disagree with arresting people over not believing in the atrocities-I don't blame them for not wanting to, and for giving humanity's past the benefit of the doubt. I think this(arresting those who "speak out") has happened in Europe somewhere a few times now... people jailed for not believing in the Holocaust-and expressing this to others. Unless they're for starting another holocaust, I can't see why in hell they should be arrested. Still, there are other things you can disagree on that can land you in prison especially if you blast it all out there via use of the media-and repeatedly. I don't feel that it makes it a big conspiracy. Many scholars have looked into revisionist theories and found tons of holes and contradictions. Of course, if you think Jews run the world and your life, you may very well be inclined to believe that those camps were happy places where they passed out candies, blew bubbles, and allowed kids to draw big Star of Davids everywhere in colorful chalk... lol

[weston white]

Did you realize that the term Holocaust originally meant only “a sacrifice consumed by fire”, it was modified after Hister's activities.

Which to me this is an implication of the globalist conspiracy, it was an act to forever create angst, prejudice, and conflict amongst the population. A wall to hide behind so to speak for the majority of the global elite to carry out their agenda.

[nickatnoon61]

Did you realize that the term Holocaust originally meant only “a sacrifice consumed by fire”, it was modified after Hister's activities.

Which to me this is an implication of the globalist conspiracy, it was an act to forever create angst, prejudice, and conflict amongst the population. A wall to hide behind so to speak for the majority of the global elite to carry out their agenda.You may have a good point there ,WW!

[nickatnoon61]

Mega fish said:

Many scholars have looked into revisionist theories and found tons of holes and contradictions.

Nick said: you are welcome to show some of these "holes and contradicktions".

[raffles]

the problem actually lies with the legal restrictions on disscussing it.why? i can legally claim the battle of Hastings never happened the way it did,i can legally deny the Burning Times took place(9 million murdered by the christians) so why not this one point in history?

Yeah this should be a red flag for anyone, we can say anything we like about any other event in history no problem.
But yet this is the only topic that can land people in prison, why ? cos its a big fat lie they don't want exposing. its as simple as that.