coven of the free

[paganus]

ok,ive started this thread for those interested in using so-called 'occult' techniques for the cause of good.post your theorys,book reccomendations,spells,meditations etc here! blessed be!

[nuit]

well done for starting this thread it will be great to see what replies are put forth

[clipwip]

ok,ive started this thread for those interested in using so-called 'occult' techniques for the cause of good.post your theorys,book reccomendations,spells,meditations etc here! blessed be!

The concept of "occult" is interesting. In its most fundamental sense it simply means "hidden." It has taken on a pejorative connotation, but it is really a neutral term. Icke said something about this in one of his lectures about how knowledge is neutral, it is how you use it that matters.

Also, this is a very interesting interview where the guy makes a very good point that what is today considered "occult" will be considered "science" in the future:

Zen of Stars: Michael St Clair, Futurist and Visionary
A video interview with Michael St Clair
Montreux, Switzerland, September 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3364025926698462083&hl=en

[nuit]

thank you to whomever for stickying this :D

[nuit]

can we include essays in this thread ?

[paganus]

can we include essays in this thread ?
its ok by me!

[the_count]

Well, i just lit some black candle and danced round naked hoping Nuit would appear before me but it didn't happen.
I am not very good at this so any help would be apreciated :)

Erm...... right.....i'll get my coat.......:D

Sorry, didnt mean to spoil this thread 1

[drael]

Excellent! This should be highly informative :) I can finally discuss some of the crowley stuff ive been reading and other info and materials. Ive searched far and wide in spirituality, but nothing has come close to the wisdom of the occult.

Recently ive been thinking about morality, in the scope of the universe and in spiritual learning/advancement. Heres a quote from crowley that made me think...

Until the Great Work has been performed, it is presumptuous for the magician to pretend to understand the universe, and dictate its policy. Only the Master of the Temple can say whether any given act is a crime. "Slay that innocent child?" (I hear the ignorant say) "What a horror!" "Ah!" replies the Knower, with foresight of history, "but that child will become Nero. Hasten to strangle him!"

There is a third, above these, who understands that Nero was as necessary as Julius Caesar.


It is well known in certain circles (whether crowley, or the law of one) that first there is the selfish (including those "good" and "evil", because these actions are centred in desire), then there is the white and dark brotherhoods, teachers of humanity, then there is those that transcend both to wisdom. The spirit world itself is the same, first there is us (after the earth and element spirits), then angels and demons, and then higher dimensional beings who know only wisdom and unity and divine purpose.

Its got me thinking about the need to accept all there is, and stop my inner protesting. Im definately heading down the white path, but understanding and accepting all fears, all hurt, all difficulty is part of wisdom and freedom from desire. Everything under the sun, has a time and a reason. Of course im still far short of this goal, but its given me alot of thought...

Well, i just lit some black candle and danced round naked hoping Nuit would appear before me but it didn't happen.
I am not very good at this so any help would be apreciated

Erm...... right.....i'll get my coat.......

Sorry, didnt mean to spoil this thread

Well one cant bind the will of another in magick, without reprecussion (if one has desire for a thing, one also has a lack, or fear. Such a fear will manifest as much as any desire manifests, so one must be free of relevant desires to do magick).

Free-will is a natural law, it cannot be violated. One should always be careful of natural laws, the universe can be harsh with reprecussions.

Also black candles are used for banishing, neutralising etc which is the opposite of what you want. Dancing round naked works, but only if you go clockwise for a adding spell, or counterclockwise for a subtracting spell.

[nuit]

At the edge of Day, in a Desert Land,
The Magician stood alone in his Circle of Sand.
And with mystic Gestures of Voice and Hand,
Sought to call forth the Lady of Creation.
As the Sun sunk slowly in the West,
As her scarlet Smile on the Horizon came to rest,
As the Stars did twinkle on Her azure Breast,
Did he make the supreme adjuration:

"O thou, Goddess of the Evening Sky,
Unto thy Bosom may my Spirit fly.
To die the Death of mine Individuality,
To become one with thee in Eternity."

So She curved down upon him from the heavens above,
To enrapture his Soul in a lambent Flame of Love.
And She made of the Night a velvety Glove,
To receive his final Capitulation.
From the depths of his Being did the Serpent Flame rise,
Lusting aloft to the Call of her Eyes;
That pierced to his Core from her faerie-nymph Skies.
As his Soul entered the Uttermost Conflagration.

"O Goddess, let the dross of my Body burn in thy Fire,
So that naught escapes the unquenchable Pyre.
As the God-spark flames within me to join Us as One,
And then, anon, from One to None."

So She bore him aloft into Trance Sublime,
To behold All Things of Space and Time;
From the Highest Gods to the Primordial Slime,
As they danced in the Magick Copulation.
And when he had seen All that is was or will be,
She caused him to swoon into Morpheus' Sea.
And returned him to his Circle, gentle and free,
To lie in ineffable Relaxation.

In a short Space of Time did he open his Eyes,
To behold the Vastness of Her Unending Skies.
Amidst a murmur of drunken, ecstatic Sighs,
Did he utter the Great Conjuration:

"O Nuit, Soul of Infinite Space;
Beyond Good and Evil, beyond Guilt and Grace
Thou who art All that ever can be,
Let thy Love thrill through me for Eternity."

"O Nuit, whose little Sister is Our Mother, the Earth,
Thou, beyond Life and Death, beyond Sorrow and Mirth.
Let the Message go forth to both Near and Far,
That every Man and every Woman is a Star!"

All Things are Holy, all Things are Divine,
All Men and all Women are Siblings, in fine.
O Nuit, Queen of Heaven, let the Joys of Thy Love,
Dance through Us all from Below and Above."

"O Nuit, Thou who art the Essence of the All,
Let me live all my Lives at Thy Beck and Call.
So that all that I think say or do,
Is a Rite of Love with Thee, most true."

And then did the Magus rise in her Stead,
With a Message of Power to quicken the Dead;
That, in the Face of Her Love, all Sorrows fled,
Lost forever in Her Sacred Contemplation.

"Hear me, O Goddess, O Unending One,
Let me be in thine Self as a Star, as a Sun.
To shine forth our Love as a radiant Light,
Forever with Thee, in Thy Star-Speckled Night."

O Children of Nuit, 'tis time to take Pause and learn,
To cause the Holy Fire within Thee to burn,
To flame up to Her Body, Her Love to earn,
To become a Star in Her Manifestation."

[nuit]

posted not to be pretentious but because i think it is beautiful and by a hugely talented thelemic author/poet

[octopusrex]

Before y'do any kind o' hocus pocus with the old Gods, I recomend you visit an expert who has done it before.

Dangerous work!

[paganus]

Before y'do any kind o' hocus pocus with the old Gods, I recomend you visit an expert who has done it before.

Dangerous work!ive been doing it 11years,so im kinda expert.in my experience danger comes from attempting to force your will upon another.thats a sure way to have anothers will forced upon you.the highest ideal is to ALIGN your will with that of the divine.the true purpose of the seeker.and the meaning of 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law,for love is the law,love under will' the divine is love,and our will must match the divines will.

[hagbard_celine]

posted not to be pretentious but because i think it is beautiful and by a hugely talented thelemic author/poet

It is indeed. It's very sensual.

[drael]

Before y'do any kind o' hocus pocus with the old Gods, I recomend you visit an expert who has done it before.

Dangerous work!

One doesnt need a teacher, one just needs to study widely, and not do any magick beyond ones ability or knowledge. Ultimate rule of thumb IMO:dont use magick for your desires, one should be detached. In the end, magick should only be practised within the divine will, which takes time to truely know. But if one keeps to altuistic magick, and one knows all basic protections, cleansing and grounding, you cant really go wrong.

Its the only work!

Actually im reminded of the kyballion; knowledge is intended for use:

The possession of Knowledge, unless accompanied by a manifestation and expression in Action, is like the hoarding of precious metals-a vain and foolish thing. Knowledge, like wealth, is intended for Use, The law of Use is universal, and he who violates it suffers by reason of conflict with natural forces - The Kyballion

[drael]

And speaking of hermeticism, i have always found depth in the seven hermetic laws...

1. The Law of Mentalism: The Universe is mental. ''The All Is Mind; The Universe Is Mental.''

2. The Law of Correspondence: We exist in all planes, astral as well as physical. ''As Above, So Below;As Below, So Above."

3. The Law of Vibration: Everything is in motion and vibrates with its own rate of the vibration. ''Nothing Rests; Everything Moves; Everything Vibrates''

4. The Law of Polarity: All things are dual, everything contains its opposite. ''Everything Is Dual; Everything Has Its Pair Of Opposites; Like And Unlike
Are The Same; Opposites Are Identical In Nature, But Different In Degree;
Extremes Meet; All Truths Are But Half Truths ; All Paradoxes May Be Reconciled.''

5. The Law of Rhythm: All things are in some way circular, spiral, cyclic, and in order to function the best way, you must adapt to live in harmony with natural rhythms. ''Everything Flows Out And In; Everything Has Its Tides; All Things Rise And
Fall; The Pendulum Swing Manifests In Everything. The Measure Of The Swing
To The Right Is The Measure Of The Swing To The Left; Ryththm Compensates''

6. The Law of Gender: The law of polarity, applied. Everything has both masculine and feminine components and energies. ''Gender Is In Everything; Everything Has Its Masculine And Feminine Principle; ''Gender Manifests On All Planes.

7. The Law of Cause and Effect: There are no coincidences, nothing happens by chance. Everything is a cycle. For every effect, there is a cause, and every cause is an effect in something else. ''Every Cause Has Its Effect; Every Effect Has Its Cause; Everything Happens According To The Law; Chance Is A Name For The Law Not Recognized; The Are
Many Planes Of Causation, But Nothing Escapes The Law.''

[nuit]

It is indeed. It's very sensual.

i appreciate your mind hagbard, i now know it sees beauty in words like i do

[nuit]

Who do we love tonite?
As if we need to ask:
It's on the Aethyr, Our tryst;
The night is ripe for lust.
Let us not talk falsely now;
The night is ripe for passion.
So let us not dally too long,
And let the pleasantries overwhelm touch...
Your eager flesh triggers
Me into plunging deep into you !
Yes! Again!Yes!Again!Now!
The liquid shimmer engulfs us;
Me lost in you;
You crazy on me!
The clinging of your insatiable desire:
The inevitible painful surging of mine:
Dissolution, ecstatic, Touching
With all six senses:
Our Souls aflame with the Night
Of Pan! IO Pan Pan! Pan!
Outward race the Twin Souls to
Beyond the orbit of the farthest Stars:
To Infinity! To Nuit!
The All is One, and We are One!
O, Goddess, coupling languidly, We;
You and I, are One!
For Now, For Always!
For Eternity!
So Mote It Be!

[lydia78]

And speaking of hermeticism, i have always found depth in the seven hermetic laws...

1. The Law of Mentalism: The Universe is mental. ''The All Is Mind; The Universe Is Mental.''

2. The Law of Correspondence: We exist in all planes, astral as well as physical. ''As Above, So Below;As Below, So Above."

3. The Law of Vibration: Everything is in motion and vibrates with its own rate of the vibration. ''Nothing Rests; Everything Moves; Everything Vibrates''

4. The Law of Polarity: All things are dual, everything contains its opposite. ''Everything Is Dual; Everything Has Its Pair Of Opposites; Like And Unlike
Are The Same; Opposites Are Identical In Nature, But Different In Degree;
Extremes Meet; All Truths Are But Half Truths ; All Paradoxes May Be Reconciled.''

5. The Law of Rhythm: All things are in some way circular, spiral, cyclic, and in order to function the best way, you must adapt to live in harmony with natural rhythms. ''Everything Flows Out And In; Everything Has Its Tides; All Things Rise And
Fall; The Pendulum Swing Manifests In Everything. The Measure Of The Swing
To The Right Is The Measure Of The Swing To The Left; Ryththm Compensates''

6. The Law of Gender: The law of polarity, applied. Everything has both masculine and feminine components and energies. ''Gender Is In Everything; Everything Has Its Masculine And Feminine Principle; ''Gender Manifests On All Planes.

7. The Law of Cause and Effect: There are no coincidences, nothing happens by chance. Everything is a cycle. For every effect, there is a cause, and every cause is an effect in something else. ''Every Cause Has Its Effect; Every Effect Has Its Cause; Everything Happens According To The Law; Chance Is A Name For The Law Not Recognized; The Are
Many Planes Of Causation, But Nothing Escapes The Law.''

Beautiful and Thank you for posting this!!

"These LAWS are valid in all of CREATION, in all Planes of Being. They are eternal and unchangeable. But above all LAWS stands the UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND THE GRACE OF GOD, able to transcent all LAWS!"


http://www.puramaryam.de/lawhermes.html

[nuit]

THE EIGHT LIMBS OF YOGA

Yoga, from the Sanskrit root yuj, means "to yoke" or "to bind together". Simply put, yoga means union. The primary objective of yoga is spiritual attainment; to achieve union of mind and spirit with the divine, supernal intelligence: with God. To achieve this lofty end, the art and practice of yoga is divided into eight divisions called "limbs".
These limbs are designed to lead the practitioner of yoga, the yogi, through a series of physical, mental and spiritual exercises. The purpose of these exercises is to give the yogi control of his body and his mind so he can turn his mind toward higher realities.
Imagine that your mind is like a large lake that is being fed by five glaciers. These glaciers are your senses and they are constantly disturbing your mind with their inputs. Stop the glaciers, your senses, and your mind will become calm and reflective. The lake, now calm and still, can reflect perfectly the sun overhead. The sun is to the lake as your soul is to your mind. Now you are capable of directly perceiving the divinity of your own nature.
The procession of the yogi through the eight limbs is as follows:

1)Asana (it is necessary to use Sanskrit words because these words have no direct equivalents in English) - This means "posture". There are many different kinds of Asanas - lying, sitting, standing - used for a variety of purposes. The yogi stays in this posture, concentrating on stilling the body and its messages to the mind, until the body no longer disturbs the mind. This generally takes a long time and considerable perseverance.

2) Pranayama - means "control of breathing". Controlling the breath in various kinds of rhythmic exercises brings about relaxation, emotional and mental control and generally serves to enhance a sensation of well-being. It also serves to both calm and concentrate the mind.

3) Yama - means "control" and

4) Niyama - means "virtue". These two limbs are usually taken together. Their practice is to have the yogi develop a "code" to make his life as smooth as possible; to make it so that everyday events disturb his contemplative mode very little. This "code" is in no way moral or ethical, it is merely a practical means to achieving serenity.

5) Pratyhara - means "self-introspection and analysis". Now the mind is focused on itself, at both conscious and subconscious levels, to ascertain what "makes the yogi tick". It is necessary to understand oneself to the very core of one's subconscious, even to habits and the tendencies to react to external and internal stimulus developed in prior incarnations, if one is to completely know oneself. This analysis can also be done on external things - people, situations, problems - whatever the yogi desires to analyze.

6) Dharana - means "concentration" or meditation proper. The yogi begins by holding simple objects - a square, a triangle or circle, for instance - in his "mind's eye" and keeping them steady. To keep them truly steady, like the body in Asana, requires much patience and practice. The body and the mind, similar to a wild horse, do not wish to be controlled. As he gains proficiency, the yogi moves on to more complex objects and then to moving objects - a gyroscope or moving engine, etc - and then on to living things. Dharana can also be done on whatever pantheon of divinities best suits the yogi's nature.
Up to now, the foregoing limbs discussed have been practices. These practices reinforce each other. Doing Asana helps in doing Dharana. Dharana aids in the practice of Pratyhara and so on. As the yogi works on the first six limbs, he is developing and enhancing his body and his mind. When he has readied himself, he will turn toward the last two limbs of yoga, the results:

7) Dhyana - there is nothing even close to this word in English. It involves the uniting of the seer and the seen. For a brief space of time, the ego dissolves and the yogi loses himself in the non-self. This is usually accompanied by an intense light and sound and the sensation of being in the presence of a divinity. The yogi is directly experiencing the majesty of his own eternal soul. It is a total knock out blow to the normal conscious mind; making fame, fortune and the like seem no more than a house of cards.

8) Samadhi - means, literally, "union with god". Buddha called this state "nirvana"; Jesus called it heaven. The Hindus have names for different kinds of samadhi: "Atmasdarshana" is becoming one with the universe, "Shivadarshana" is samadhi on the destruction of the universe, etc. Yogis have reached the pinnacle of yoga when they are capable of attaining and controlling samadhi

Yoga, then, means union. Union with the body and mind, under control of the yogi's will is first. Then, life is made smooth and simple by union with a "code of serenity". Union with proper rhythmic breathing brings relaxation and concentration. Next, union with one's own soul gives the yogi "the keys to the kingdom". Finally, union with godhead makes the yogi one with ultimate reality.

[nuit]

And it came to pass, countless aeons ago, in the dim prehistory of man and woman that he and she were summoned to the throne of the Most High, so that the Lord of All might have discourse with his children. He told them that for the time that they had lived with Him in the Valley of Gold, all had been well. They had lived happily together, as brother and sister, and all had turned a deep golden-bronze in the light of the beneficent sun. They made no differences between one another, so that all lived equally as one.
But now, the time of weaning was upon them, He told His children, and they must separate and make their way into the world. They would cross deserts, great oceans, plains, mountains and valleys, rivers of water and rivers of ice and rivers of molten rock, until finally they would be spread across the entire face of the earth. And because they would dwell in such diverse locations, after time had passed, they would begin to change.
Some would darken, some would lighten as they metamorphosed in the light of the sun. They would become brown and red and white and yellow and black and very few would remain golden. Their hair and eyes would change. Some would be very tall and some very small. Some would live in caves, some on the open land and come in great cold cities. And as the differences among them grew, so would their love for another lessen, until it finally became hate. The many diverse ways of living, worshiping, creating and destroying, growing and cultivating and all the other ways of man would come to be ways of alienation. Much blood would be spilled as these differences of form turned one from another.
But Father, one of them asked, why must this be? How can we harm those among us whom we have greatly loved? Can we so easily forget all the lessons of goodness and grace that you have taught us?
Your kind forgets easily, my children. In no more than two generations, all of what you have lived here will exist only as legend. And then the legend will pass into nothing but fable and story and then division will come to hold sway over you.. Your selfless love will transmute into brute selfishness and you will treasure material possession above all else, including love and compassion for each other. And then, for millennia, you will endure hardship and strife, bloodletting and war, famine and pestilence.
And it is in the nature of things that this should be so, for it is the essence of existence that all things soever shall be experienced: hate and love, peace and strife, goodness and evil; for all are parts of the great whole of My being. No stone of doing or being or living must be left unturned. When it comes to pass that it seems that the grim visage of the Lord of Darkness has complete sway over all the earth and all the people therein, I will send unto you a Bringer of Change who, with his light, shall unite the race of man. And having spoken these words to His children, He vanished.
It came to pass that the words of the Most High bore fruit most bitter. Man and woman spread across the earth and so did they change. Man and woman came to change in color and size as had been foretold. In truth all things predicted by the All-Father came to pass. In the millennia that had passed since leaving the Valley of Gold, man had learned the arts of murder and robbery and hate and prejudice and came to live in great suspicion of his neighbor and fear greatly for the security of his own property and ego. Finally, man perfected the art of war to such an extent that he was capable of exterminating all life in a matter of hours. And did the grim specter of the Lord of Darkness hang as a great shroud over all the lands of man.
And once again, as it had been before, the Almighty sent a Bringer of Change to the children of earth. So great was his light and the power of his message, that man did imperceptibly begin to change for the better. After one final cataclysmic war, which sorely decimated mankind, the remnants of the ruling sentient species of earth did finally learn to tolerate one another. Slowly, slowly, slowly did man begin to reunite. So also slowly did the physical appearance of man reunite: after many more centuries did man, all of the race of man, become of the color of gold. And, once more, did mankind live in peace and harmony under the face of heaven in the Valley of Gold.

[clipwip]

At the edge of Day, in a Desert Land ...

That was very beautiful indeed. Who wrote it and where did you come across it? Is that Crowley? Your user name now makes some sense and you chose wisely.

[nuit]

That was very beautiful indeed. Who wrote it and where did you come across it? Is that Crowley? Your user name now makes some sense and you chose wisely.

no it is by a thelemite who's name i cannot recall but i will track it down and get back to you with it :D

[kennethb]

I think a thread I just posted on the Awakening section is applicable here...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16370

sometimes, with so many forums in one place, you'll find a topic which easily fits in on more than one message boards.

Anyhow, I must say I disagree with some of the hermetic "laws" .

1st, because I don't believe in absolutist language, if it's semantically economical to avoid that sort of thing. I believe that if you'r really leaning on the evidence correctly, you'l realize as a fallible human being there's always a chance your perceiving apparatus is lying to you, or there's evidence you'v overlooked or don't have access to you, or any number of other things... So it seems more accurate to me to state theories and the supporting evidence, rather than stating universal "laws" or "facts".

2nd, I seem to detect many assumptions in those laws which simply don't seem likely to me. Perhaps the universe seems mental, but might'n that be because it's mental to think about it? isn't saying the universe "is" mental confusing the map with the territory? might'n we map the nonmental with our mentations?
is not finding a duality in everything perhaps a manifestation of the left hemisphere logic commonly used by the majority of people, which has a tendency to reduce things into either/or categories, like a binary code built into the brain going 01001001110101
is not that gender is in everything an assumption based on another assumption (what we ourselves assume constitutes "masculine" or "feminine")?

lastly, having admitted elsewhere i'm encouraging a thorough, careful, responsible psychic investigation into the going-ons of a nefarious cult in my area of Virginia I believe to be manipulating me like a pawn, I offer you my website, which documents at least the results of the interaction of their brainwashing and who i would have been as a person had they not began brainwashing me so many years ago. I have my doubts about sharing this magical knowledge, in part because it's always possible i'm merely doing evil by sharing it... but have examined the website as thoroughly as i can, and concluded it would be a greater sin to hide this information, than to share it.

http://kalithalur.fortunecity.com

see in particular the Essays section, here is an interesting place to start:

http://kalithalur.fortunecity.com/layer.html

[edit]

I think a thread I just posted on the Awakening section is applicable here...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16370

sometimes, with so many forums in one place, you'll find a topic which easily fits in on more than one message boards.

Anyhow, I must say I disagree with some of the hermetic "laws" .

.....
finding a duality in everything perhaps a manifestation of the left hemisphere logic commonly used by the majority of people, which has a tendency to reduce things into either/or categories, like a binary code built into the brain going 01001001110101


hmm... i see you are too wise and in the same time a very young .. a.. person?...

.. and there is again a repetation

you..are ( and not only you) are....repeating the same threads you did a some months or so ..ago
psychic E?

just a note on practice..

[kennethb]

(every magical secret which can be unlocked by reading a book has been unlocked by our modern internet era, no? infinity too many secrets to tell?)

edit, i look upon your post as a sort of koan, that, if meditated upon long enuf, might unlock an infinity of separate meanings, and that also has a simple meaning or two which only those sophisticated enuf to understand simple things might understand.

anyhow, i wanted to explore a theme touched on by drael earlier:

(Until the Great Work has been performed, it is presumptuous for the magician to pretend to understand the universe, and dictate its policy. Only the Master of the Temple can say whether any given act is a crime. "Slay that innocent child?" (I hear the ignorant say) "What a horror!" "Ah!" replies the Knower, with foresight of history, "but that child will become Nero. Hasten to strangle him!"

There is a third, above these, who understands that Nero was as necessary as Julius Caesar.)

Be careful how you interpret passages like this. There's a bit of a lure to the text.

First, is the "Great Work" ever completely done? Or is the magician without ultimate understanding of universal policies for as long as he/she shall live, due to the finite nature of human interpretation of infinite things? If the latter is the case, the only method available to avoid presumptuousness might be "maybe logic," or acknowledging the Way things seem to you and why, but avoiding saying things like, "It is certainly always wrong to kill children."

Were Nero and Caesar necessary? Necessarily, if they occurred, they must have been! What will be will be, so to speak. Try to imagine a causal universe which exists without determinism, then try to imagine an infinite perpetually moving causal universe that exists with determinism.

Anywho, I myself at one point attained a perspective wherein I though perhaps negative things must happen for the sake of unique experiences, so that as many things can happen as possible, and that these negative things are worth it because of the insights one gains after they'v been transcended. I was wise enuf to understand this perspective might later be disproven by my experience....

As indeed it was! For what conditions must be met to acquire unconditional love? Understand? Unconditional love arises and nourishes the nirvana-conscious being (almost) regardless of circumstance!

"Will is the law, love under will." Will love. Separate that love from any kind of trigger other than pure will ...

You know, Without love, a purely objective being would do anything necessary to feed his/her own happiness (for happiness, in its many varied forms, is to an objective interpretation life's only reward) as much as possible, minimizing risks to happiness, and attempting to make happiness sustainable. This might result in some selfish behavior but probably never mass murder, rape, and so on, because such methods wouldn't be the best methods of maintaining selfish happiness. and if such an objective being did nothing to inspire in others, but rather inspired distrust and a similar selfish attitude, the objective being could trust no other, indeed expect around every corner a knife wound

And anyhow, to an objective being capable of reading the same data I'v been fed by my unique experiences, there is no more pleasant, sustainable form of happiness than "love under will," unconditional attachment-free love, which paradoxically motivates selfless behavior! The more love a person has, the more altruistic that person becomes. Survival of the family unit, then the tribe, then the society, then the country, then mankind, then the universe, is supported, by an increasing embraciveness of love. It is easy to love what's close, sweeter to love what is.
Perhaps my poem will help, or entertain, or something:

The New Law

Fuck your mother.
Fuck your brother.
Fuck your daughter and your sister too.
Your pinecone, fuck that.

This is the LAW. Forbid not!!!

Nothing is not. Wear her (genderless) ass a cloak.
Change not, for change is.
Try not. The doing be done.

Understandest thou?
NAY! YAY! Yea have forgotten to remember!
Possess not, lest yea be possessed
Be not, lest yea be

As you are, Invisible Friends!

Love only the dirty ones. Them that scorn you, shower with love. Raped, beaten, and slain on a cross! Love ONLY these things.

Despise the traitors
The gods, despise.
Your lover, despise.
Your love, despise.

CHANGE not your evolving ways! Thou art beyond me,
For Thou Art It,
Is.

Compassion is the greatest of survival skills.
Fear is the greatest courage,
Difference the favorite similarity (the contrast is the same),
Love the sweetest thing, For it loves unconditionally,

If a slave thou must be,
Service only love.

Heed not writings, for death is in that, and that is not of that.
Heed not my words or I will slay thee.

It is writ.

[kblood]

What about the Law of Attraction, would you all think it plays a roll in all this? To me it seems the heart of most magic, having magic work because it is believed to do so.

[salina]

is that not same as with most stuff? mind over matter?

[paganus]

What about the Law of Attraction, would you all think it plays a roll in all this? To me it seems the heart of most magic, having magic work because it is believed to do so.its belived in quantum physics,that the observer affects the observed.so just what magic has known all along! the universe behaves precisely as you expect it to.thats why optimists are lucky,pessimists unlucky!

[kennethb]

just one. some people don't accept that's true, many respected quantum physicists don't. quantum physics consists of many theories.

i think there's an extent to which perception can influence what perception is mapping (which i'd like to label "what objectively actually exists, but can only ever be mapped as far as i know and as far as anyone has admitted to me they know").

for instance, i look at somebody's head from behind, they almost instantly turn around and look at me. if attention were somehow transmitted, this happenstance could be easily explained.

if attention were somehow transmitted, attention could influence ("what objectively actually exists .....").

I choose not to believe everything is observer-created, or that everything is an interaction of competing perspectives, as the above explanation makes more sense to me, seems more logically sound.

in otherwords, optimists may be unwittingly brainwashing their environments into behaving positively, and pessimists the opposite!

of course, the "tinkerbell is only real if you believe in fairies" explanation makes sense to some people. Some think that's the message of the Matrix. if you'r like that, don't let me be a party pooper - just try to fly from the ground before you go jumping off buildings!

[kblood]

Experiments have been done on that kennethb, about the looking at somone, and that somone knows he or she is being looked at.

It was said by a guy who had done many experiments with telepathy of different kinds, that he had found out it was something highly trained assassins/snipers and such, were aware of. If someone was to be stabbed, then it should be avoided looking at the back of that person untill the moment of the stabbing, or the person would be likely to turn around too soon.

But as you said, I agree that we all influence each other somehow. Take me f.ex. I work at a call center for an ISP, and help customers get their Internet up and running. I feel like about 90-95% of the customers that calls me arent angry customers. Some actually seem happy customers, although they call because of some problem with their Internet. It is something I have talked with the others about, some manage to get almost nothing but angry customers.

So when we look at the effects of individuals alone, then what if we have groups of people believing the same thing? That is how the world can be changed in my oppinion. Why else would the Illuminati f.ex. make rituals with as many people as possible? Even though most of them might even be unaware they are helping a ritual... I cannot be sure the Illuminati does so, but the many sources about the Illuminati seems to agree on it.

[paganus]

maybe we should do an experiment,see if we can collectivly influence something!

[kennethb]

A Magical Moral Theory

First, to mention my biggest mistake during my three-year magical career (at the moment, I'm on vacation from that career). I was casting a spell to enlighten everybody with free will, and I didn't put any conditions on that free will - just cast it on the whole universe.

Now, what exactly happens if somebody is successful at that sort of thing, I don't know... Whether subconscious predispositions about what constitutes "free will" influence other peoples' opinions, or whether nothing happens at all, or whether there's a level at which the spell actually works. But it seems silly in retrospect.

Fortunately, I was only at it for three years, and I can honestly claim that little miniature magical career was a direct result of telepathic brainwashing, so nobody can judge me too harshly for it ;).

But this got me to thinking about subtle magical currents. How long has psychic energy been real, how long have human beings been using it, and in what ways have they been manipulating reality? When is it acceptable to manipulate reality? How many peoples around the world are casting spells without realizing it?

Prayer, for instance. One type of prayer resorts to asking an intermediary for something - "God," I would pray as a child, "Liberate all people, cure all sickness, end suffering" ect ect... There are ways in which this probably doesn't create an actual conscious deity (the majority of the time) but probably does influence reality as if the deity were real, to the extent (for instance) our expectations project psychic energy into the real world.

This is just one theory. Another theory would be, There is only one God and psychic energy itself comes from the enemy of that One True God. In which case, perfect faith in God may very well create an existence for you perfectly in harmony with God's will.

But there are other types of prayer. Since probably before the stone age, human beings have been praying to gods and spirits and spider monkeys with the intention of manipulating reality. All kinds of subtle psychic currents came into existence, perhaps (if it is admitted telepathy, for instance, is real) manipulating the behavior of worldwide animal and human life in a variety of subtle and less-than-subtle ways.

If it is admitted things like telekinesis might be real too, plants and weather and landscapes can also be manipulated by magical currents.

If these psychic currents are interfering with free will, I think it would be prudent to find a way to put a stop to that nonsense, and I think the people of this planet have a right to prevent telepathic brainwashing to exist on our planet, even if an ancient race of aliens is psychically manipulating us along with the old and new religions.

I think the entire planet has a right to pray for good weather, if they aren't idiots about it. How much learning does it take to know how to manipulate the weather without just fucking things up (like humans tend to do)? A suggested rule of thumb: If you think you might be on an ego trip, don't you dare will psychic changes upon the weather no matter how much you'v studied it! And if you don't think you'r on an ego trip, aren't you being just a little arrogant for thinking that way?

I feel like psychic energy contributes to weather patterns along with things like gravity and sunlight. But what about human beings?

I mean, when I start to really think about "Synchronicity," one logical explanation is psychic energy manipulating the opinions and behavior of human beings (and animals) on a global scale... Why not? Practically the entire planet prays for something or other, and wouldn't it explain why so many world events happen in such strange ways? Significant people and events happening around the number 23, and all that stuff.

I feel like the most powerful global psychic event is a type of enlightenment spell (that exists in many forms, some perfectly harmless) cast by enlightenment religions and secret societies and individuals around the world (and who knows? maybe aliens), designed to liberate the entire planet. The con is you'r psychically manipulating opinions on a global scale (and that's a big fucking con). The pro (to the nicest form of the "universal happiness" school of spell casting) is you'r preventing the planet from blowing itself up, you'r promoting a great deal of positive change in the real world.

And, in theory, if you'r competent about it, you'r getting rid of more intrusive forms of brainwashing (notice how I classified "influencing through psychic means the opinions of the entire planets in diverse and subtle ways" as brainwashing!?).

I say void out all forms of brainwashing. That's a free will spell too. Let the entire planet transcend anyone having the ability to psychically manipulate anyone else.

It isn't manipulation when you consent to it. For instance, I can say, "I am willing to participate in a magical current that promotes my competence and promotes the expanse of focusles love within my aura." If that's what I announce to the world - Well, the whole world is suddenly allowed to promote my competence and my focusles love.

And sometimes, telepathic vibrations of love are less intrusive than physical prevention of a crime. For instance, to defend my body, I telepathically dominate an attacker into _not_ attacking. So long as I'm the defending party, I have a right to prevent myself from being injured. If I'm being responsible and logical, I'm very careful how far I go in a situation like that.

If someone wants to murder me, I think I have a right to admit to them, "You aren't allowed to kill me." It is more responsible to tell somebody you'r telepathically preventing them from committing a murder than it is to merely dominate them into not wanting to kill you. I mean, if you have the ability to prevent somebody from taking that course of action, just admitting that to them and otherwise leaving their brains alone is least intrusive crime-prevention.

If I prevented a murder through telepathic means and I knew about it, I'd want a compassionate, clear-headed person who's already attained focusles love and the equivalent of at least eight years of psychotherapy to monitor the fellow, and have a talking-to, and as soon as possible release the fellow of the burden known as "homicidal tendencies". I'd have one or more world-class therapists (if they happened to be available) get the would-be killer to a high enough degree of sanity to be safe to be released from the spying eye of psychic detectives.

I believe it is acceptable to prevent out-right betrayals of free will from happening, so long as you'r careful to use least intrusive means to do it. And I think it's just logical to admit to the person you'v prevented from committing a crime that you'v prevented the person from committing a crime.

Considering preventing global catastrofy, it is easy to fall into this trap of thinking, "It is ok to cast a spell to enlighten everybody because it'll cut down on global disasters and eventually allow us a method of totally transcending negativity." I mean, I don't think you'r responsible enuf to cast a spell to influence the opinions of the entire world (ever!?!?) unless you'v transcended your ego and spent a good portion of your time contemplating all the consequences. Even just simply voiding out telepathic brainwashing, what if you prevent me from catching a serial killer?

But I can think of one spell I'd be really tempted to back up globally - that no weapons of mass destruction should ever explode anywhere on the planet. I'd encourage Christians and Moslems and Jews and members of every religion to pray, all over the world, that no weapons of mass destruction ever detonate anywhere on the planet. Even if one country suffers a nuclear explosion, that country would be betraying free will to a more extreme extent than any serial killer ever born just by responding with another nuclear explosion. The loss of innocent human life would be too tremendous to ever justify the detonation of massive chemical or biological weapons.

A problem with that kind of a spell is, what if just by touching a person with psychic energy you'r interfering with that person's free will, and that person hasn't done anything at all? A possible answer to this problem would be to suggest that psychic energy might automatically exist inside all life, or that people are influencing each other with psychic energy all the time without realizing it or intending to do it, or that unhelpful global and local magical spells exist to influence the opinions of people that should be voided out. I don't have a complete answer to give, merits further research. In fact, I might even be too insane to write responsibly about this sort of thing, I might even be a total nut case. Certainly, I don't believe you have the right to force anybody to feel anything they don't want to touching them (including psychic energy), and the idea that casting a spell on an entire planet is physical intrusion is a pretty compelling argument. You don't have a right to step on my lawn without my permission, and isn't your magical will an extension of your body?

Another solution to the problem of your psychic energy stepping on my lawn concerns being scientific about how you apply your magical will, so that you wait for the magical will of others to directly impact your own magical will before you trace it or react to it. Now, somebody feels hostility toward you and your aura is psychically touched as a result... This "aura" might consist of a vast network of psychics practicing a similar type of magic, but what it doesn't consist of (god damn it) is the aura of every living member of the planet. This tactic could also be used to prevent global brainwashing, since these global magical currents would have an inevitable tendency to intersect with your own magical will.

In any event, a spell designed to prevent nuclear explosions should in my opinion accept a stipulation: That this spell is only preventing nuclear explosions, is not in any way influencing the opinions of people who don't intend to detonate or don't happen to be in a position to accidentally detonate nuclear explosions. Also, that this spell is voiding out psychic currents that intend to cause nuclear explosions.

I think it is acceptable to target at least two things when using magic to modify behavior:

1) Significant interference
The desire to murder, rape, or enslave, it seems to me acceptable to prevent with psychic energy. It doesn't seem to me acceptable to prevent a man from shooting another man in self-defense because self-defense isn't murder (and I can't ask the defending party to risk his life just to be less intrusive about the way he resolves the conflict - I can recommend, but I can't ask, lol.).

To void out significant interference, such as from rape and murder and slavery, Magically Will that the least intrusive method promotive of greatest overall freedom is applied to resolve/prevent conflict.

I consider this Defensive High Magick. The ultimate goal of such tactics is to convert the aggressor to sanity without brainwashing.

One form of significant interference: Global brainwashing. Create a spell to prevent magic from interfering with free will if the magic is not being used defensively. That is to say, the goal is to prevent "free will" from being interfered with at all. Don't let yourself be tricked into torturing or brainwashing somebody, don't even let yourself be tricked into supporting a subtle form of brainwashing.

2) Enhance consent
Where a man consents to allow you to will him love, feel free to do so, in the manner the man consents to. Where a man consents to have noninterfering attributes augmented, such as health and happiness, and consents to be magically helped to transcend pain, and consents to be magically assisted to overcome spying, and consents to be magically shielded from harm, go ahead and help the guy out.

http://kalithalur.fortunecity.com/defense.html
http://kalithalur.fortunecity.com/layer.html

I think the second link i just posted is useful if you keep peeling, as it suggests.

This is my interpretation of Thelema/the Book of the Law: a magical working toward achieving a stability wherein every will is free and united and no will clashes, no restriction or hindrance or interference permitted.

[kennethb]

if you could think of an ethical reality manipulation experiment, i would consent to participate, and consider it a very good idea.

[paganus]

if you could think of an ethical reality manipulation experiment, i would consent to participate, and consider it a very good idea.anyone any ideas?

[salina]

here is a little excersice someone who i know who is extremely knowledgeable in this area set me

THE EXERCISE


1. Visualize a quarter (or some specific coin of common currency in your locale) vividly, and imagine vividly that you are going to find the quarter/coin on the street. Then, look for the quarter/coin every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it. See how long it takes you to find the quarter/coin and take note of it (keeping a notebook handy might be helpful)


2. Explain the experiment by the "mystical" hypothesis that "mind controls everything." Believe that you made the quarter manifest in this universe. I would highly suggest perhaps writing a disertation or essay (at least thats how I planon going about it this time around). After you have completed the writing of your explanation, go lookng for looking for a second quarter (the same specific coin of common currency in your locale) and again take note of how long it takes you to find one. (I would highly recommend repeating this exercise at least 5 times, and AT LEAST as many times as you carried through with step 2. Writing a disertation perhaps after your first finding, and then again after the last. At the very least, I would at least write the disertation after the last.)




3. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of "selective attention"--that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters/coins everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually looking. I would highly suggest perhaps writing a disertation or essay (at least thats how I planon going about it this time around). After you have completed the writing of your explanation, go lookng for looking for a second quarter (the same specific coin of common currency in your locale) and again take note of how long it takes you to find one. (I would highly recommend repeating this exercise at least 5 times. Writing a disertation perhaps after your first finding, and then again after the last. At the very least, I would at least write the disertation after the last.)



4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using the first hypothesis (mysticism/mind-over-matter) and the time it takes using the second hypothesis (attention).



5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and each time compare the two theories--"selective attention" (coincidence) vs. "mind controls everything" (psychokinesis).


6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At the end of a month review your writings (and perhaps data) and still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might have something still to learn. *i.e., adopt my stance of that you're an idiot*


7. Convince yourself (if you are not already convinced) that you are ugly, unattractive, and dull. Go to a party in that frame of mind. Observe/record how people treat you.


8. Convince yourself (if you are not already convinced) that you are fair, irresistable, and witty. Go to a party in that frame of mind and observe/record how people treat you.
*I have placed these two steps close to each other as I recommend putting forth first whichever step comes most easiest/naturally*



9. First, observe closely and dispassionately two dear friends and two relative strangers. Try to figure out what their perspectives. In particular, what they think as "true" (in any multitude of ways) and in what ways they have found and/or find evidence that leads them to seeing the "truth" the way they do. Assuming you are in close regular contact with these persons, I would recommend doing this for at least a month. If your upclose and personal contact with these persons is less frequent, I'll leave it to you to judge what would make for an adequate amount of time to make an assesment. After you have completed this, write a dissertation on your findings.
Second, APPLY THE SAME EXERCISE ON YOURSELF and write a disertation on it at it's conclusion.


10. Believe it possible that you can float off the ground and fly by merely willing it. See what happens. *I will note here, that I suggest you truly sit and not just apply some mild amount of time and effort into this.*
Again, record the results and write a dissertation on it.

11. Believe that you can exceed all your previous ambitions and hopes in all areas of your life


if needed i will add the writing he sent me at the beginning of this

[paganus]

very interesting! i will try it and post results! i read about how kenneth anger and some others once attempted to levitate the pentagon! a bit ambitious at mo?:D

[nuit]

i still find the power of the LBRP to be the most worthwhile ritual one can do

[kennethb]

that's from Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson, a book I highly recommend.

[paganus]

think of yourself,visualize yourself as strongly as you can.now surround yourself with love.hold the feeling for a few minutes. now,visualize someone you love as strongly as you can,surround them with love.hold these feelings for a few minutes. next,visualize someone to whom you have no strong feelings either way as strongly as you can.surround them with love.hold this feeling for them for a few minutes.now,visualize someone you dislike,even hate as strongly as you can.surround them with love.hold this for a few minutes.practice this before bed or first thing in the morning everyday.

[kennethb]

What if you force them to feel love!!!?!?!???!?!?!?

Actually, that sort of meditation triggered a breakthru with me.

Think back to any moment you felt disgust or blame or hatred for a person's actions, and replace the feeling with unconditional love.

Think back to any moment when you felt digust or blame or hatred for your own actions, and replace the feeling with unconditional love.

Think of a dog terd plopped on top of a maggot hamburger and shower the image with love.

try not to focus on anything in particular except the emotion love and focus on expanding that emotion as much as possible, without connecting the emotion to an object.

Lessons these meditations taught me: Love is sweetest which needs no specific conditional inspiration. The simplest love embraces all experiences without attaching so much to an object the object distracts.

Do what is good for most, no matter what. Like an expansion from this: I love myself, --> I love my own family, --> I love my friends too, --> I love my society, --> I love humanity, --> I love all living things, --> I love.

I consider it much easier to transcend the self-esteem function (sometimes labeled "ego") or the zen koans concerning attaining the unattainable, in comparison to attaining the simplest kind of love. Yet the attainment itself seems effortless.

Note: My above post encourages blamelessness, but not a society free of deterrents. Blame is pain, unnecessary and illogical in a universe where a constant stream of causes already begun and ended determine what happens. Deterrents treat the disease that is interference. Or so it seems to me.

thanks, paganus, that was an excellent post. I would encourage everybody to follow the advice of paganus, as I'v seen miracles result from such simple exercises.

but ponder this silly: am i rewarding paganus by saying "thanks"? in truth, to my mind, a perhaps infinite stream of already-begun and already-ended causes resulted in the act of posting that message, so paganus is just lucky! paganus cannot be thanked for good deeds, nor cursed for bad deeds,

and what would be the point of using self esteem to fuel happiness anyhow, when it would be so much better, when the fainest hint of pride arrives, to focus and say, "I am happy! Happiness must be because I summon happiness! Happiness, expand. I need not an environmental stimulus to generate happiness."

or when feeling low because of some insult or personal failing, to focus and say, "I am all the situation permits, and that is enuf! pain is an illusion, there is no blame. what love i feel for love's sake!"

unconditional love replaces guilt and self esteem by replacing the need for such obsolete emotional conditions

Or so it seems to me.

[kennethb]

The Is Society

Big organizations have a lot of power and at least some of their members tend to abuse that power. People who choose not to organize because they feel it might corrupt them or lead to internal corruption are left almost defenseless.

The purpose of THIS is to work toward reducing what interference exists in the world, and to provide members with a method of utilizing network support without falling prey to the corruption that plagues most networks. Members are not pledged to secrecy, or in any way obligated to take orders from other members. THIS is not a secret society and THIS tries very hard to avoid ever becoming a governing body.

THIS attempts to present an opportunity for people to work together to make the world a better place without falling prey to false ideology or blatant selfish abuse of network advantages.

Some of the founding members of The Is Society are perhaps gullible, perhaps open minded, enough to admit psychic energy may in fact exist as an unseen physical force that can be harnessed by individuals through efforts toward developing the ability to channel psychic energy. Belief in the existence of psychic energy is not required to join, so long as you're willing to be in the same network as people who think they're psychic.

There is one obligation every member of THIS must take. The obligation is the foundation of the network, and the only thing that will ever be required of members. It is the cornerstone of this network's being a network. Of course, it is expected members help each other out (else why be a network?), but such is nowhere written in our rules or guidelines. Such happens because of a common goal, not because of an obligation.

People should not take the obligation if fundamentally apposed to being touched by psychic energy or fundamentally apposed to ethical behavior.

The Obligation.

I, (name), swear that I will make an effort to ethically justify my own behavior and that I will do everything in my power to support the greatest good.

I do not necessarily assume psychic energy or magic or any of that supernatural mumbo jumbo exists. I do consciously accept that my psychic will, should I have one, consents to conjoin with the psychic wills of other members of this network so that we are all psychically prohibited from consciously betraying the greatest good we know, and psychically supported in discerning and acting on the greatest good.

I do furthermore accept a prohibition against betraying the freedom of others just to support my own pleasure.

Individuals wishing to join this network should verbally recite the above obligation and meditate on the implications. To make membership official and participate in network activities, send full name or nickname, and any information you consider relevant, to vader987654321@gmail.com

An individual's information and name are kept private unless we are given permission to publish such stuff.

[kennethb]

i thought of the Coven of the Free when me and vader came up with that stuff.

i think any network run by identical principles should let us combine forces with them! because any such network would simply be the same network, but with a different title.

i'd like comments on this idea from you, Coven!

and rest assured, I don't trust myself with people's personal information so I'm letting Vader take care of that stuff. But... I don't have any credentials on vader, so if you want to help the cause without giving out any information, feel free, as suggested above, to just give a nickname.

[alice1111]

Hi Paganus,

Good for you for starting this thread and I want you to know that I am behind you one hundred percent, or in front, your choice. I have many questions, but will wait until you are on line. I haven't had a chance to read the thread, have had the flu, but WILL catch up. :)

Love,

Alice

[alice1111]

Hi Paganus,

If some of my questions sound incredibly stupid, please ask for clarification for I am sometimes unclear in emails.

Do you think that the illuminati bluebloods have more or better magickal ability than us po folks?

Do you think the three fold law could have been planted as a belief to control minds? In other words, the illuminati do not appear to be bothered with fearing their actions.

What do you think of the sign Ophiuchus having been left out of astrology for the general public?

I know you do not perform black magick, but it appears that the illuminati might and so are you ever tempted to give them a little blast?:)

Love,

Alice

[paganus]

Hi Paganus,

If some of my questions sound incredibly stupid, please ask for clarification for I am sometimes unclear in emails.

Do you think that the illuminati bluebloods have more or better magickal ability than us po folks?

Do you think the three fold law could have been planted as a belief to control minds? In other words, the illuminati do not appear to be bothered with fearing their actions.

What do you think of the sign Ophiuchus having been left out of astrology for the general public?

I know you do not perform black magick, but it appears that the illuminati might and so are you ever tempted to give them a little blast?:)

Love,

Alicemagical ability comes from a focused will.no-one is any better genetically than anyone else.ive personally experienced the three fold law.belive me,its real! i dont know enough about Ophiuchus sign to answer that.for your last question,see my comment on the three-fold law! :eek:

[alice1111]

magical ability comes from a focused will.no-one is any better genetically than anyone else.ive personally experienced the three fold law.belive me,its real! i dont know enough about Ophiuchus sign to answer that.for your last question,see my comment on the three-fold law! :eek:

I personally don't believe anyone is better than another also. I know about the three-fold law and that you would not want that. I was just wondering if you have ever been tempted. I have been tempted, but have not acted on it.
I have not experienced the three-fold law, but I'll take your word for it.:eek:
However, is there anything wrong with sending back something that may be sent to you? In other words, using the mirror effect in that you are bouncing it back so-to-speak. So that if they did not send you anything, they would not receive anything back.

Alice

[paganus]

I personally don't believe anyone is better than another also. I know about the three-fold law and that you would not want that. I was just wondering if you have ever been tempted. I have been tempted, but have not acted on it.
I have not experienced the three-fold law, but I'll take your word for it.:eek:
However, is there anything wrong with sending back something that may be sent to you? In other words, using the mirror effect in that you are bouncing it back so-to-speak. So that if they did not send you anything, they would not receive anything back.

Alicelol,the fact ive experienced the three-fold law answers your question i think!:o sending something back is different.you have every right to say 'i dont want that!' and return to sender! ;)

[kblood]

magical ability comes from a focused will.no-one is any better genetically than anyone else.ive personally experienced the three fold law.belive me,its real! i dont know enough about Ophiuchus sign to answer that.for your last question,see my comment on the three-fold law! :eek:

Hehe, reminds me about a witch who was trying to curse me, or in fact use the good old voodoo doll on me. I was quick to get rid of the effect though (they had its arm in boiling water), and apparantly they had dropped it into boiling water because I got rid of it so fast, and then I called upon their very own times 3 law :D She did not get hurt, but did get a good scare.

It did not leave permanent boil marks. My arm was a bit red for about 5 min maybe, but an illusion is easier to get rid of when it doesnt get to manifest fully. Everything is an illusion to some degree though, so I have found with enough willpower, most things can be changed. F.ex. healing faster and keep your body disease free to name a couple.

[paganus]

Hehe, reminds me about a witch who was trying to curse me, or in fact use the good old voodoo doll on me. I was quick to get rid of the effect though (they had its arm in boiling water), and apparantly they had dropped it into boiling water because I got rid of it so fast, and then I called upon their very own times 3 law :D She did not get hurt, but did get a good scare.

It did not leave permanent boil marks. My arm was a bit red for about 5 min maybe, but an illusion is easier to get rid of when it doesnt get to manifest fully. Everything is an illusion to some degree though, so I have found with enough willpower, most things can be changed. F.ex. healing faster and keep your body disease free to name a couple.very true! you can actually up your anti-bodies when your ill by visualising them as pink blobs,multiplying,and heading to the affected area/s!

[alice1111]

Hello

[kennethb]

3-fold return doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with Robert Anton Wilson's comments in Cosmic Trigger Trilogy when he talks about the death of his daughter Luna. Karma is a blind force. You can be nice to everybody and die of disease or get gang raped then shot to death. You can be a real jerk and lead a pretty happy life.

3-fold return is impractical. are you saying every negative act attracts three times the negativity? that means karma commits three times worse a crime against you than that you committed against somebody else, and it means you're now more likely than ever to do something negative because the situation's forced you into a negative head state.

3-fold return may happen because people who believe in it strongly enuf project it into their environment. there is more than one way to create a self-fulfilling prophecy - some of them may involve using psychic energy to manipulate the environment.

dispel 3-fold return in favor of something more practical

[drael]

Well its a modern magickal law. I dont think three is really the actual number (It may represent desire, through the monistic duality of the number three).

In this case what happens is magickal energy is built up in the self, then projected outwards. The residual energy level is always high, thus benovelence spells are safer.

Black magicians use long term wards to protect themselves. The wards eventually run out, and they get a karmic backlash but they stall it as long as possible.

More subtely, all magick involving any desire attracts an amount of karma. The karma from a spell in the end inhibits even some benolvence spells, because they attract some desire or attachment, although generally this is negiligible.

[kblood]

Yea, treefold thingie is probably symbolic, because how does this get measured at all? ;)

[kblood]

very true! you can actually up your anti-bodies when your ill by visualising them as pink blobs,multiplying,and heading to the affected area/s!

My self healing is based on visiualising in my mind that I do not get sick, or that my cold is not going to last long. When I am not feeling down, I am less likely to get sick as well. Maybe it takes alot for me to admit me to be sick, but I f.ex. havent taken a day off from school or work the last 2-3 years due to sickness. Sometimes I do it due to lack of sleep though...

[paganus]

three-fold law is based on the idea that you feel an effect when you send spell out.the target feels an effect.then the energy returns and you feel an effect.now,if the spell 'misses' the target due sy to it being a bad spell,you also get the targets dose.therefore you get three doses,one extremly bad!

[alice1111]

I'm back!!!!!!!!!!

[tim the enchanter]

Hail. Where have thy been?

[alice1111]

Sendeth thou an email.

[deathcultreject]

Hey, I've got an invocation of Boudicca that's written in Enochian.
It's credited to 'kingsley evans'

I'm using it to expose the truths behind trauma based mind control, and related matters of hierarchical nonces. Would anyone like to join me?

There's a gap for inserting a wish or a sigil mantra for the intention of the spell, which you then chant a bit at the end.

Obviously you might want to open and close with some sturdy methods.

The first time I used it it attracted some angry ghosts, and the cat got scared untill I told him what they were.

I presume we all know our history with Boudicca.

Here's the invocation.


BOUDICCA
VOUINA CAOSGO TORZU OD UGEG G PI OD FAFEN TILB G IAIADIX
the dragon of the earth rises and waxes strong with her and her train with honour
ULCININ A SOBAM PI DORPHAL G RIT
happy are they whom she looks upon with gladnes and mercy
SALMAN TILB OHORELA GOHUL NOR OD PASBS CHIS PARACH OD PI TORZU G VONPH OD BAGIE ALDI PAR IAIADIX BAGLE PI OD PASBS TILB PAR UGEG G VAUL BALTIM MICAOLZ MADZILODARP CIAOFI DE BABALOND CASARM SONF G MADRID EOL CORDZIZ DS LEVITHMONG DE ADNA
her house made a law saying sons and daughters are equal and she rises with wrath and fury gathering them with honour for her and her daughters. They become strong with works of extreme justice mighty in the god of stretch forth and conquer to the terror of the wicked who reign with inequity making the reasonable creatures as beasts of obedience
PAPNOR DE MONASCI TILB IDLUGAM LONSHI OD OI LONSHI ADRPAN QTING DS SONF OD QUASB ADNA DE PAR DS LONSHI EOL ADPHAHAT DAMPLOZ DE ELZAP OD VAUL OD SOR
to the remembrance of her great name is given power and this power cast down the rotten that reign and destroy obedience of them. This power makes unspeakable variety of courses and works and actions
PI YOLCAM LONSHI PAMBT BAGLE OL CHIS IAIADIX BAGLE PI. OL UGEG OD MICALP NOTHOA MOLAP TA MOLAP UGEG OD MICALP NOTHOA APACHAMA
she brings forth power unto me for I am of honour for her. I wax strong and mightier amongst men as men wax strong and mightier amongst the slimey things made of dust
ZIRN TILB ALDI G DS LU IA HE DS OL GOHUS
the wonders of her gather in this song of honour which I speak
>> <<
OD DS LU IA HE EOL DRILPI MOLUI DE BALT OD BALTIM DS ZACAR OD ZAMRAN G SOR DE CORDZIZ CAOSG OD DS YOLCAM DRILPI MOZ BAGLE OL OD CIAOFI DE PAR AG IAIADIX
and this song of honour makes great surges of justice and extreme justice that move and appear in actions of the reasonable creatures upon the earth and which bring forth greater joy for myself and terror of them of no honour

[deathcultreject]

three-fold law is based on the idea that you feel an effect when you send spell out.the target feels an effect.then the energy returns and you feel an effect.now,if the spell 'misses' the target due sy to it being a bad spell,you also get the targets dose.therefore you get three doses,one extremly bad!

That sounds about right.

Also there's the effect of the magic altering your conditioning.
If you do too much vampiric cursing, you run the risk of draining non enemies.
If you do too much healing then you start wanting to heal people who don't like you and who have a very low probablity of ever doing anything to deserve their quota of oxygen. etc. etc.

Personaly I've always thought that the three fold law is a very cowardly form of moral high ground.

Only 1 % of people are born psychopathic, so if everyone cursed the bad guys, I mean actually studied a bit of criminal psychology, and then cursed against, munchausen's syndrome, malignant narcism, sociopaths, psychopaths etc. then there would hardly be any back lash to go around.

And then of course the memetic evils which they have been brainwashing into the rest of humanity would start to fade away.

[kblood]

Personaly I've always thought that the three fold law is a very cowardly form of moral high ground.

Only 1 % of people are born psychopathic, so if everyone cursed the bad guys, I mean actually studied a bit of criminal psychology, and then cursed against, munchausen's syndrome, malignant narcism, sociopaths, psychopaths etc. then there would hardly be any back lash to go around.

And then of course the memetic evils which they have been brainwashing into the rest of humanity would start to fade away.

As I see it, the three fold law applies to magick only, because of the way it works. So if everyone cursed bad guys f.ex. then the back lash would probably still hit all those who did so, especially since it might miss. Harmfull / evil magick is still the same kind of magic although used against others who does evil deeds.

[deathcultreject]

As I see it, the three fold law applies to magick only, because of the way it works. So if everyone cursed bad guys f.ex. then the back lash would probably still hit all those who did so, especially since it might miss. Harmfull / evil magick is still the same kind of magic although used against others who does evil deeds.

It's an opinion that you're welcome to, but it's not mine and I think it stops people acting. It's another way to enslave.

Personaly I think that people do theirselves more harm by doing nothing.

White magic supremacists always strike as having a kind of self loathing which they can't control, which lashes out and projects itself onto other people from time to time.

I think that just sitting there and doing nothing whilst they're subtly picking up on all the violations and evil going on is probably part of the reason why.

[jacob1111]

im with you

[drael]

Okay, well your welcome to practice black magick on the most powerful black magicians in the world (ie the black cabal). Theres at least two of you. Let me know how it goes!!!! :eek:

In my experience, there are many full magi there, capable of full manifestation. As such, psychic warfare of any kind, is not yet on my agenda!

If we could really harness the whole world, defeating them would be easy and wouldnt require curses (although of course, most people dont know about the ptb, and dont beleive in magick). Simply removing their protections/bindings would do serious damage to them, releasing natural rebound on them - it would be at least as serious as a curse, if not far far more.

To curse, or bind wills, of course, ull have to train under another black mage, to learn all the bindings/protections that hold back blacklash. Youll also need to do a few sacrifices, abuses etc, in order to acheive the correct symbols of dominance.

Then ull be (relatively) free of universal law, and u can curse to your hearts content. Of course, then ull be exactly the same as them, but never mind....

A good way to test this theory, that rebound doesnt exist, is to try it: if u doubt backlash exists, cast a curse. Then come back and tell us that its all untrue :D

(No seriously dont do any of this stuff!!!)

Personal power, and power over others, is a left-hand path cornerstone. You are virtually preaching their philosophy!

There is so much i could talk about here, the nature of free-will, the illusion of the third dimension, the history of the light/dark war, the effect of desire in magick....it goes on and on - the problem is far deeper, than simply having a few psychopaths in control. For a start, remove the psychopaths, more will take their place - people still WANT to be controlled, we have a culture and society that binds us into control. I may add more to this, if i get time later on.

[paganus]

if anyone DOES feel the need to perform a sacrifice,may i suggest a raw (freerange) egg? it contains exactly the same energies but in POTENTIAL rather than manifest form. ;)

[deathcultreject]

Okay, well your welcome to practice black magick on the most powerful black magicians in the world (ie the black cabal). Theres at least two of you. Let me know how it goes!!!! :eek:

In my experience, there are many full magi there, capable of full manifestation. As such, psychic warfare of any kind, is not yet on my agenda!

If we could really harness the whole world, defeating them would be easy and wouldnt require curses (although of course, most people dont know about the ptb, and dont beleive in magick). Simply removing their protections/bindings would do serious damage to them, releasing natural rebound on them - it would be at least as serious as a curse, if not far far more.

To curse, or bind wills, of course, ull have to train under another black mage, to learn all the bindings/protections that hold back blacklash. Youll also need to do a few sacrifices, abuses etc, in order to acheive the correct symbols of dominance.

Then ull be (relatively) free of universal law, and u can curse to your hearts content. Of course, then ull be exactly the same as them, but never mind....

A good way to test this theory, that rebound doesnt exist, is to try it: if u doubt backlash exists, cast a curse. Then come back and tell us that its all untrue :D

(No seriously dont do any of this stuff!!!)

Personal power, and power over others, is a left-hand path cornerstone. You are virtually preaching their philosophy!

There is so much i could talk about here, the nature of free-will, the illusion of the third dimension, the history of the light/dark war, the effect of desire in magick....it goes on and on - the problem is far deeper, than simply having a few psychopaths in control. For a start, remove the psychopaths, more will take their place - people still WANT to be controlled, we have a culture and society that binds us into control. I may add more to this, if i get time later on.

Drael,

Where are you getting this from?

A lot of it sounds like chineese whispers amongst armchair theorists.

[kblood]

Hey Drael, I actually have a theory about the same. The Illuminati system at least seems to be one of abuse, and since Illuminati members have grown up being abused, at least from what I have heard, then that might protect them from the backlash black magic used for evil might cause.

This based on the evil they are doing is part of the karmic cycle and therefore not backlashing as much on them. All guesswork though.

I try to solve all problems without using any kind of magick at all. I dont see any need to use magick just because its possible.

[drael]

Drael,

Where are you getting this from?

A lot of it sounds like chineese whispers amongst armchair theorists.

Most of it is verifiable. Some is based on my own experiences, visions etc. To answer this fully, ill need to go through what i said. About the magical power of the cabal - thats my own experience. I had one past life as a black mage, and ive dreamed about them and had experiences and visions about them. That i could be wrong about, but i tend to want to trust my intuition about things like that. Ur welcome to make of that what u will (i did say, it was in my experience though).

Rebound is a simplification of universal law (ie for example the hermetic laws), and totally common in magickal teachings - apart from those of the left-hand.

The part about protections from the rebound is something that u should be able to find on the net, i first learnt about the practice with ceremonial magicians (they summon entities, and magickally control them), and ive talked to a ceremonial magician about the protections they use. However, it seems unlikely the left hand would generally mention this, as they tend to deny that unity, god or anything outside themselves has any power.

As far as abuse and sacrifice goes, its not strictly true that u need these to curse. It easy enough to practice this sort of magic. However, because its (sacrifice etc) what the black cabal are doing, ull need symbolism/ritual to match theres - unless u have the will to acheive this without the props. There are less nasty alternatives, like a poppet for example, but its fairly low magick. Im not an expert on black magick symbology, so there might be something more palatable for the purpose - but it doesnt seem likely IMO, the symbology of using an actual person/being would be hard to match. U cud just use a summoning, but they are very good a that, and its pretty dicey stuff (this is from experience, and reading). We are talking about psychic warfare here, so u need good punches if ur gonna fight it out....(Sorry for the over-simplification here! )

As far as left-hand philosophy, self empowerment, attainment of godhood etc, that u can look up on the net - just go to some left-hand websites. Plenty of stuff on this..

The stuff at the end, is from various texts etc (info on the light-dark war can be found in the emerald tablets of thoth for example - although u can read much of it from other mystic texts), stuff on dimensions can be found in the law of one channellings (although the concept of the 13 (12 and 1) or 10 (9 and 1)dimension universe is very old). The effect of desire on magick is well known, and deep in the tradition - an easy reference point is some of the hermetic texts. The threefold law is only one reason not to do harmful magick. As within, so without, as above, so below and like attracts like are hermetic laws that amount to a similar sort of thing - but given more weight in general occult circles. The effect of desire is another reason - one needs to be detached to manifest. And of course the last part, the fact that we are bound in a culture of control, is obvious IMO.

So, yeah i have to say, the bit about sacrifice etc, was a little misleading. Sorry for that. The rest can all be found on the net, occult books and writings, etc.

The dark forces feed on their dominance of us, our fear etc - we empower their magick. In unity, equality, and love, they are powerless. And that doesnt only apply to magick, it applies to all their social controls as well. Icke says much the same thing, and thats reason enough not to do such an attack IMO - we need to focus on our game, so as not to make ourselves so vulnerable to their methods (magickal or physical). Its a reverse of the paradigm, good offense is good defense. In our case, good defense is good offence.

On the topic of curses, something u may find interesting, vodoo practices curses etc, against the forces of evil, in a philosophy they regard as good (to my knowledge they are the only ones that do this). They do use sacrifice, and death symbology. They dont seem to beleive in rebound either, although im no expert on vodoo. (i have only really passing familiarity with vodoo)

Hey Drael, I actually have a theory about the same. The Illuminati system at least seems to be one of abuse, and since Illuminati members have grown up being abused, at least from what I have heard, then that might protect them from the backlash black magic used for evil might cause.

Im fairly sure, although i have no proof (some personal accounts), that this abuse is part of their magickal intiation. The purpose - to harden them into the self serving philosophy of power (thats enough!, take this!), and also to take them along their magickal awakening (no fear, no pain etc). Ive heard it called psychognosis, a kind of deliberate insanity creation that either ends in madness or "enlightenment". This is not just abuse, it baffles one sense of reality in order to push the initiate out of the "matrix". Theres something that rings true for me about this, although there are lots of theorys on SRA etc. Thats my theory anyway. At the very least it inspires "toughness".

Im not sure about ur karmic theory. Its an interesting thought. If one was abused when young, one might be "owed" good karma - However, I personally dont think fate can be tricked that way. Applying more thought to the process will help us sort the wheat from chaff, as a community - theres alot of theories out there on this stuff. Of course i may have understood ur theory wrongly, or just be wrong :D Either way, its good stuff to analyze IMO - know thy enemy and all...

I try to solve all problems without using any kind of magick at all. I dont see any need to use magick just because its possible.

Anything one can do without magick, should be done without magick IMO.

[drael]

An intuition i thought id share:

Dont provide your real name here. Dont provide a photograph. Dont use your magickal name either. Lets not give the enemy any weapons huh?

[guyblokeman]

You know your making real progress with your works when your interest in magick begins to fade.

[kblood]

An intuition i thought id share:

Dont provide your real name here. Dont provide a photograph. Dont use your magickal name either. Lets not give the enemy any weapons huh?

I think my picture is on my profile. I dont care about people and their spells, usually you can just have it bounce back at the caster, if the magic is unwanted. Well, in my experience anyway. Remember the wiccan times three rule? Karma can be called upon to simply reflect the spell I belive, and seem to have used a couple times. Not sure how well it works against someone who isnt wiccan though. Im self taught I believe, so dont really associate myself fully with any kind of magic system, or belief system.

[kblood]

I guess I have to scratch that. Focusing sexual energies on someone else can be very distracting for that person. I could not reflect, when it was done to me afterwards, since I guess I didnt have any karmic reason to. Paybacks a bitch ;) I simply deserved what I got. A good reminder to me not to impose on others.

So if you feel or know you do not karmically deserve it, or at least not from the person doing it to you, whatever the magick is, then it ought to be rebouncable.

[paganus]

Karma works wherever you belive in it or not...

[kblood]

Karma works wherever you belive in it or not...

True, but it can still be influenced. Mostly karma depends on what is done and wether you know it was good or bad karma. If you do something and do not realise it is bad karma, then it will show sooner or later. If you did and it was realised to be bad karma, then there is still the chance of making up for it.

I believe karma is controlled by spiritual beings or something like that. Not sure how or why, but it isnt simply cause and effect.

These days I am trying to find those who has enough bad karma to be in need of guidance or a good lesson in humility. I actually managed to find a few, although it is hard to get close to others and figure out what their thoughts are. Bonds of friendship is needed. Magick seems to be a bit too effective for me, so I try to be carefull. Although I dont like all the lessons I have had, then at least they taught me that life is more than it seems. It even seems that every story we have heard is true in some way. Fitting it all together is the hard part though.

[xpleet]

Karma is a false law set up by the administrating controllers (evil) of the astral.

It dictates the life and death ( physical <-> astral ) cycle and you have to work off your "karmic debts" by agreeing pre-mortally to live in a worse physical body next time. It's deception in the purest form. Please realize this NOW.

To break out of this system of madness we have to reject karma at any time. It is not in any way natural or good for all beings involved.

[kblood]

When it comes to karma from past lives, I dont believe we bring that along. Sometimes we do it without knowing and live our life accordingly. Maybe by trying to make up for something we feel we did wrong in a past life.

I dont believe we would have to do that, we could free ourselves from most karma, except when it comes to magick. When it comes to magick, the karma I believe is based on simple things. The intention of what is being done, the spiritual state of the target of what is being done if the target has a spiritual state and who is doing it of course.

The way I believe karma works is that it shapes your personality and in that way it follows you. So if you repent and change your ways, then that karma is gone just like that.