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abhie
11-12-2007, 12:59 PM
Internal Contradictions:

Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong?
Sura 34:50 commands Muhammad to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss," which is a severe factual error in the Qur'an as well as contradicting the teaching of the Qur'an in a number of other verses.
Allah, Adam, and the Angels. There are a great number of problems and inconsistencies between the several accounts of Adam's creation, Allah's command to prostrate before Adam, Satans refusal, etc.

Who Was the First Muslim?
Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?

Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord? Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29], No [6:102-103, 42:51].

Were Warners Sent to All Mankind Before Muhammad? Allah had supposedly sent warners to every people [10:47, 16:35-36, 35:24], Abraham and Ishmael are specifically claimed to have visited Mecca and built the Kaaba [2:125-129]. Yet, Muhammad supposedly is sent to a people who never had a messenger before [28:46, 32:3, 34:44, 36:2-6]. This article also raises other issues: What about Hud and Salih who supposedly were sent to the Arabs? What about the Book that was supposedly given to Ishmael? Etc.

What will be the food for the people in Hell? The food for the people in Hell will be only "Dhari" [Sura 88:6], or only foul pus from the washing of wounds [S. 69:36], or will they also get to eat from the tree of Zaqqum [S. 37:66]? Together, these verses constitute three contradictions.

Can Angels Cause the Death of People? The Qur'an attacks those who worship anyone besides God (e.g. angels or prophets) because those can neither create, nor give life, nor cause anyone to die. Yet, the Qur'an explicitly states that one angel or several angels are causing certain people to die [Sura 4:97, 16:28, 32, 32:11].
Confusion Concerning Identity of the Spirit and Gabriel (a long discussion of dozens of references)
'Iddah rules for divorced and widowed women appear to be arbitrary and inconsistent.

Is there a minimum age of marriage for girls?
To Marry or Not to Marry? The Qur'an forbids believers to marry idolatrous women [Sura 2:221], and calls Christians idolaters and unbelievers [9:28-33], but still allows Muslims to marry Christian women [5:5].
Will it be accepted of them or not?

Will Allah reward the good deeds of Unbelievers? S. 9:17 and 9:69 clearly say no. However, S. 99:7 implies yes. Moreover, S. 2:62 promises Christians reward for their good deeds. But S. 9:28-33; 5:17, 72-73 calls Christians idolaters, and S. 9:17 is very clear that idolaters will have no reward.
Should Muslims Accept Peace or Not?
Fighting All People Until They Do What?
Can They Disbelieve in the Last Day and be Safe?

Should Muslims show kindness to their parents? On the one hand, the Quran commands all Muslims to show kindness to their parents, even if they are disbelievers [17:23-24, 31:14-15, 29:8, etc.]. On the other hand, it demands not to show any love or friendship to those who oppose Muhammad, even if they are their parents [9:23, 58:22].

Can one be a believer in God and oppose Muhammad at the same time?

How many mothers does a Muslim have? Only one [58:2, the woman who gave birth and none else], or two [4:23, including the mother who nursed him], or at least ten [33:6]?
And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.

How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21.
Further numerical discrepancies Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)? --- According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups. --- There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42] Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]
How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad? One day [54:19] or several days [41:16; 69:6,7]

Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days.
Quick or Slow Creation? Allah creates the heavens and the earth in six days [7:54] and many Muslims want to be modern and scientific, and make that six eons, but then again, He creates instantaneously [2:117], "Be! And it is".
Heavens or Earth? Which was created first? First earth and then heaven [2:29], heaven and after that earth [79:27-30].

Calling together or ripping apart? In the process of creation heaven and earth were first apart and are called to come together [41:11], while 21:30 states that they were originally one piece and then ripped apart.

What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

Fully Detailed Or Incomplete? The Qur'an claims for itself to be (fully) detailed, that nothing is left out of the book [6:38, 6:114, 12:111, 16:89 etc.]. However there are plenty of important issues which are left unclear in the Qur'an. This article discusses the confusion found in the quranic statements on wine.

Worshiping the Same or a Different God? Muhammad is commanded to speak to the disbelievers: ... nor do you worship what I worship [109:3]. However, other verses in the Qur'an state clearly that those disbelieving his message are in fact worshiping the same God, Allah.

Did the Meccan Polytheist Believe That Allah Was The Supreme Being?
To Intercede or Not To Intercede? - That is the Question! The Qur'an makes contradictory statements whether on the Day of Judgment intercession will be possible. No: [2:122-123, 254; 6:51; 82:18-19; etc.]. Yes: [20:109; 34:23; 43:86; 53:26; etc.]. Each position can be further supported by ahadith.

Where is Allah and his throne? Allah is nearer than the jugular vein [50:16], but he is also on the throne [57:4] which is upon the water [11:7], and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].

The origin of calamity? Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?
How merciful is Allah's mercy? He has prescribed mercy for himself [6:12], yet he does not guide some, even though he could [6:35, 14:4].
Does Allah command to do evil? No [7:28, 16:90]. Yes [17:16, ]. Two examples are also given, where Allah clearly commanded or permitted indecent actions [2:229-230, 2:187].

Should Muhammad Get Paid Or Shouldn’t He?
Will there be inquiry in Paradise? "neither will they question one another" [23:101] but nevertheless they will be "engaging in mutual inquiry" [52:25], "and they will ... question one another" [37:27].
Are angels protectors? "NO protector besides Allah" [2:107, 29:22]. But in Sura 41:31 the angels themselves say: "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." And also in other suras is their role described as guarding [13:11, 50:17-18] and protecting [82:10].

Is Allah the only Wali? On the one hand, Allah is supposedly the only wali (protector, helper, friend) [9:116, 17:111, 32:4, 42:28], on the other hand, the messenger and the believers are walis [5:55, 9:71], Allah has walis [10:62], and he raises walis [4:75].

Does Allah Act Alone Or Does He Have Partners That Assist Him?
Is Allah the Only Judge or Not?
Are all obedient and prostrating to Allah? That is the claim in 16:49 and 30:26, but dozens of verses speak of the proud disobedience of Satan [7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74, 18:50] as well of many different human beings who reject His commands and His revelations.

Does Allah forgive shirk? Shirk is considered the worst of all sins, but the author of the Qur'an seems unable to decide if Allah will ever forgive it or not. No [4:48, 116], Yes [4:153, 25:68-71]. Abraham committed this sin of polytheism as he takes moon, sun, stars to be his Lord [6:76-78], yet Muslims believe that all prophets are without any sin.

The event of worship of the golden calf: The Israelites repented about worshipping the golden calf BEFORE Moses returned from the mountain [7:149], yet they refused to repent but rather continued to worship the calf until Moses came back [20:91]. Does Aaron share in their guilt? No [20:85-90], yes [20:92, 7:151].

Was Jonah cast on the desert shore or was he not? "Then We cast him on a desert shore while he was sick" [37:145] "Had not Grace from his Lord reached him, he would indeed have been cast off on the naked shore while he was reprobate." [68:49]
Moses and the Injil? Jesus is born more than 1,000 years after Moses, but in 7:157 Allah speaks to Moses about what is written in the Injil [the book given to Jesus].

Can slander of chaste women be forgiven? Yes [24:5], No [24:23].
How do we receive the record on Judgment Day? On Judgement day the lost people are given the Record (of their bad deeds): Behind their back [84:10], or in their left hand [69:25].

Can angels disobey? No angel is arrogant, they all obey Allah [16:49-50], but: "And behold, we said to the ANGELS: 'Bow down to Adam'. And THEY bowed down, EXCEPT Iblis. He refused and was haughty." [2:34]. This article includes links to answers to four Muslim responses.

Is Satan an angel or a jinn?
Three contradictions in 2:97 and 16:101-103 Who brings the revelation from Allah to Muhammad? The ANGEL Gabriel [2:97], or the Holy Spirit [16:102]? The new revelation confirms the old [2:97] or substitutes it [16:101]? The Qur'an is PURE Arabic [16:103] but there are numerous foreign, non-Arabic words in it.
Do not say, "Three"!? It is impossible to recite Sura 4:171 without transgressing the command contained in it.

The infinite loop problem Sura 26:192,195,196: "It (the Qur'an) is indeed a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds, ... in clear Arabic speech and indeed IT (the Qur'an) is in the writings of the earlier (prophets)." Now, the 'earlier writings' are the Torah and the Injil for example, written in Hebrew and Greek. HOW can an ARABIC Qur'an be contained in books of other languages? Furthermore, it would have to contain this very passage of the Qur'an since the Qur'an is properly contained in them. Hence these earlier writings have to be contained in yet other earlier writings and we are in an infinite loop, which is absurd.

Is the Torah like the Qur'an, or is it not? The Muslim claim of the corruption of the Bible leads to a contradiction between S. 2:24 and 17:88 on the one hand, and 28:49 and 46:10 on the other.

Should Jews and Christians follow the Bible or the Quran?
"An old woman" and God's character About the story of Lot: "So we delivered him and his family, - all exept an old woman who lingered behind." [Sura 26:170-171] And again: "But we saved him and his family, exept his wife: she was of those who lagged behind. [Sura 7:83]. Either this is a contradiction or if indeed Lot's wife is derogatorily called "an old woman" then this does not show much respect for her as a wife of a prophet.
More problems with the story of Lot "And his people gave NO answer but this: They said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" [Sura 7:82 & 27:56]. Yet: "But his people gave NO answer but this: They said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." [Sura 29:29]. Obviously these answers are different.
The "pleasure" of Allah? Is God's action of punishment or mercy and guidance or misguidance arbitrary?

Did Abraham smash the idols? The accounts of Abraham, Suras 19:41-49, 6:74-83 differ quite a bit from Sura 21:51-59. While in Sura 21 Abraham confronts his people strongly, and even destroys the idols, in Sura 19 Abraham shuts up after his father threatens him to stone him for speaking out against the idols. And he seems not only to become silent, but even to leave the area ("turning away from them all").

What about Noah's son? According to Sura 21:76, Noah and his family is saved from the flood, and Sura 37:77 confirms that his seed survived. But Sura 11:42-43 reports that Noah's son drowns.

Was Noah driven out? "Before them *the people of Noah* rejected (their messenger): They rejected Our servant and said, 'Here is One possessed!' And he was driven out." [Sura 54:9] Now, if he is driven out [expelled from their country] how come they can scoff at him while he is building the ark since we read "Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the Chiefs of *his people* passed by him, they threw ridicule on him." [Sura 11:38] He cannot be both: Driven out and near enough that they can regularly pass by.

Pharaoh's Magicians: Muslims or Rejectors of Faith? Did the Magicians of Pharaoh, Egyptians, become believers in the God of Moses [7:103-126; 20:56-73; S. 26:29-51] or did only Israelites believe in Moses [10:83]?
Pharaoh's repentance in the face of death? According to Sura 10:90-92, Pharaoh repented "in the sight of death" and was saved. But Sura 4:18 says that such a thing can't happen.

Abrogation? "The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice; there is NONE who can change His words." [Sura 6:115] Also see 6:34 and 10:64. But then Allah (Muhammad?) sees the need to exchange some of them for "better ones" [Sura 2:106, 16:101]. And it is not for ignorant people to question Allah because of such practices!

Guiding to truth? "Say: 'God - He guides to the truth; and which is worthier to be followed ...?" [Sura 10:35] But how much is left over of this worthiness when we also read: "Allah leads astray whom he pleases, and he guides whom He pleases, ..." [Sura 14:4]. And how do we know in which of Allah's categories of pleasure we fall? How sure can a Muslim be that he is one of those guided right and not one of those led astray?

What is the punishment for adultery? Flogging with a 100 stripes (men and women) [24:2], "confine them to houses until death do claim them (lifelong house arrest - for the women) [4:15]. For men: "If they repent and amend, leave them alone" [4:16]. 24:2 contradicts both the procedure for women and men in Sura 4. And why is the punishment for women and men equal in Sura 24 but different in Sura 4?

How are the sexually immoral supposed to be punished?
Who suffers the consequence of sins? The Qur'an declares that everyone will be held responsible only for his own sins [S. 17:13-15, 53:38-42]. Yet, the Qur'an accuses the Jews of Muhammad's day for the sins committed some 2000 years earlier by other Jews, e.g. worshipping the Golden Calf idol.
Will Christians enter Paradise or go to Hell? Sura 2:62 and 5:69 say "Yes", Sura 5:72 (just 3 verses later) and 3:85 say "No". God alone or also men? Clear or incomprehensible? The Qur'an is "clear Arabic speech." [16:103] Yet "NONE knows its interpretation, save only Allah." [3:7]. Actually, "men of understanding do grasp it." [3:7]

Was Pharaoh Drowned or Saved when chasing Moses and the Israelites? Saved [10:92], drowned [28:40, 17:103, 43:55].

When Commanded Pharaoh the Killing of the Sons? When Moses was a Prophet and spoke God's truth to Pharaoh [40:23-25] or when he was still an infant [20:38-39]?

When/how are the fates determined? "The night of power is better than a thousand months. The angels and spirit descend therein, by the permission of their Lord, with all decrees." [97:3,4] "Lo! We revealed it on a blessed night." [44:3] To Muslims, the "Night of Power" is a blessed night on which fates are settled and on which everything relating to life, death, etc., which occurs throughout the year is decreed. It is said to be the night on which Allah's decrees for the year are brought down to the earthly plane. In other words, matters of creation are decreed a year at a time. Contradicting this, Sura 57:22 says, "No affliction befalls in the earth or in your selves, but it is in a Book before we create it." This means it is written in the Preserved Tablet, being totally fixed in Allah's knowledge before anyone was created. All of the above is contradicted by "And every man's fate We have fastened to his own neck." This says that man alone is responsible for what he does and what happens to him. [17:13]

Wine: Good or bad? Strong drink and ... are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. [5:90, also 2:219]. Yet on the other hand in Paradise are rivers of wine [47:15, also 83:22,25]. How does Satan's handiwork get into Paradise?

Good News of Painful Torture? Obviously, announcing torment and suffering to anyone is bad news, not good news. However, the Qur'an announces the good news of painful torment [3:21, 4:138, 9:3, 9:34, 31:7, 45:8, and 84:24].

Jinns and men created for worship or for Hell? Created only to serve God [Sura 51:56], many of them made for Hell [Sura 7:179].

Preferred for Hell? S. 17:70 says that Allah prefers (all) the children of Adam over many of his creatures, but S. 98:6 declares the majority of men to be the worst of creatures, many of them being even created specifically for Hell (S. 7:179).

Will all Muslims go to Hell? According to Sura 19:71 every Muslim will go to Hell (for at least some time), while another passage states that those who die in Jihad will go to Paradise immediately.

Will Allah disgrace Muslims? On the day of judgment Allah will not humiliate or disgrace the Prophet and those who believe in him [S. 66:8]. However, 19:71 says that everyone will enter Hell, and 3:192 states that whomsoever Allah sends to Hell, is disgraced thereby.


[B]Will Jesus burn in Hell? Jesus is raised to Allah, [Sura 4:158], near stationed with him [Sura 3:45], worshiped by millions of Christians, yet Sura 21:98 says, that all that are worshiped by men besides Allah will burn in Hell together with those who worship them.



Is Jesus God or Not? In Sura 16:17, 20-21 and S. 25:3 we find a criterion to distinguish the true God from false gods. Yet, according to S. 3:49, 55, 4:157-158, 5:110, 6:2, and 38:71-72 Jesus satisfies the definition and should be considered true Deity.

Is Jesus Like Adam? S. 3:59 makes this claim, but how many aspects of likeness are there really?

Can there be a son without a consort? Allah cannot have a son without a consort [Sura 6:101], but Mary can have a son without a consort because that is easy for Allah [Sura 19:21].

Who is the father of Jesus? A more involved argument that is difficult to summarize in one sentence.
Begetting and Self-sufficiency A self-contradiction on account of confused terminology.
Could Allah have a son? Sura 39:4 affirms and Sura 6:101 denies this possibility.

Did Jesus Die already? Sura 3:144 states that all messengers died before Muhammad. But 4:158 claims that Jesus was raised to God (alive?).
One Creator or many? The Qur'an uses twice the phrase that Allah is "the best of creators" [23:14, 37:125]. What other creators are in mind? On the other hand, many verses make clear that Allah alone is "the creator of all things" [e.g. 39:62]. There is nothing left for others to be a creator of.
From among all nations or from Abraham's seed? Sura 29:27 states that all prophets came Abraham's seed. But 16:36 claims that Allah raised messengers from among every people.

Marrying the wives of adopted sons? It is important that Muslims can marry the divorced wives of adopted sons [Sura 33:37], yet it is forbidden to adopt sons [Sura 33:4-5].

Messengers were never sent to other than their own people? So it is claimed in Sura 14:4 and 30:47. However, the Bible and the Qur'an, and the Muslim traditions confirm that Jonah was sent to a different nation.
Messengers Were Sent Only to Their Own People? Sura 14:4 states that never was a messenger sent except in the language of his own people. Yet, the Quran itself claims that Jesus is supposed to be a sign to all people, that the Torah and Gospel are for all people, that Moses was sent to Pharaoh of Egypt, and that Muhammad is sent to all of mankind. The hadith also claim that Noah was sent to "the inhabitants of the earth".
Messengers Amongst the Jinns and Angels? Allah sent only men as messengers [Suras 12:109, 21:7-8, 25:20-21] but there seemingly are messengers from Jinns and Angels [6:130; 11:69,77; 22:75; etc., see article for details].

Do all of God's messengers eat food?
A Messenger from among the beasts? Allah sent only men as messengers [Suras 12:109, 21:7-8, 25:20-21]. Yet, the Qur'an also speaks about a beast that is a messenger from Allah to men [S. 27:82].

Another eleven contradictions...

Read on:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

abhie
11-12-2007, 01:34 PM
To those on the other thread that said that each and every contradiction in the Bible could be explained away, what would be your reaction if a muslim told you the same thing? That each and every contradiction in the Quran had a logical and reasonable explanation?

Think....

drael
11-12-2007, 01:40 PM
I am interested here. Is this a phenonema that only existed post 911, or did the these contradictions in the koran exist in muslim society beforehand?

Personally i see no difference between the two books. Both are essentially mystic books taken by the masses literally, creating contradictions - IMO. The dao, for example is full of deliberate "contradictions" meant to force the reader to re-interprete their reality, and duality. If you took that book literally, youd be in real serious trouble!!!

abhie
11-12-2007, 01:54 PM
I am interested here. Is this a phenonema that only existed post 911, or did the these contradictions in the koran exist in muslim society beforehand?


The internet has opened up a whole new world of information. I guess pre 911 we only had the faux media network to dish us the 'facts'.

'History' as you know it covers up a lot of attorcities commited against humanity.
On the internet , people can share their thoughts , unlike before.

drael
11-12-2007, 02:01 PM
But why the koran specifically, why not analyse the egyptian book of the dead for contradictions, rastafaranism or the teachings of krisha?

I guess the followers of the koran and bible generally are equally well intentioned and equally dogamtic and literally oriented...in that respect very similar, but these are not the only popular religions in the world....

abhie
11-12-2007, 02:33 PM
Is this a phenonema that only existed post 911, or did the these contradictions in the koran exist in muslim society beforehand?

I get what you mean. Is this a directed attack on muslims post 911.

Why islam? Why not hinduism , why not budhhism?

Islam because, we as humans recognize the dangers of this cult as a tool to create mass psychosis.

Along with psy-op statements like "islam is the fastest growing religion in the world" , imagine a world dominated by this cult.

abhie
11-12-2007, 02:36 PM
The other side of this view point is also interesting:

Why are so many westerners suddenly so supportive of Islam?

So, could be that the whole of 911 was designed , among other things to inculcate a huge number of supporters, sympathisers to this religion.

Could an alien intelligence be moving us in a particular direction?
Islam has a lot of similarities to fascism.

If not one, the other, the devil has many tools , all have the same end result.
To make robots out of humans.

This is from my own post in GLP:>>

Reasons for westerners supporting islam:


If you are a westerner, Christain, and a supporter of Islam, then you do it for mainly the following reasons:

> You support Islam out of pity / sympathy for the cruelty bestowed on them by your leader , George Bush and his Nazi father.

> You really feel there is something to islam that maybe westerners do not understand.

> you are a politically correct fuckwit too dam scared to go against the vomited media bullshit in order to avoid other politically correct fuckwits calling you a racist.

>You are a male who despises women, and would like to see the gains in equality for women rolled back - and for women to get back in their proper place: cowed and subservient at your feet..

abhie
11-12-2007, 02:45 PM
Here's another excellent site that discusses the same, but is more organised:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/contradictions.htm

drael
11-12-2007, 02:51 PM
Islam because, we as humans recognize the dangers of this cult as a tool to create mass psychosis.

Well for me not more so that any of the monotheistic religions based on judiasm. And only there because of the dogmatic literal and specific interpretation of moral laws, leading to prejudice. (Ie homosexuality is wrong, sexuality and media in general is wrong etc). There is a fear element there. They IMO have lost their mystic origins.

Of course there is a fairly decent amount of islamic mystics that dont follow such literal interpretations (compared with for example, christian mystics which are very rare)...I found discussions with muslims very interesting on this score, quite alot of acceptance/openness to magick, psychic phenonema and unseen realms which of course is uncommon in the western judiac religions.

Also, that said, it seems islamic people act quite kindly to their kin, offering real love and kinship to their families, fellow muslims and loved ones, which i am quite impressed by... They call each other brothers and sisters....imagine if we called each other brothers and sisters...

There are similarties and differences to me, from christianity. I admire the openness to other realities, faith in god and brotherhood of islam. (Also there is also like the bible, wisdom in the koran). I admire the self-sacrifice of true christians (and some of the mythology in the bible). Neither is a path i would recommend to the true seeker, for both are largely dominated by church and temple(but valid paths for some)

abhie
11-12-2007, 02:54 PM
Also, that said, it seems islamic people act quite kindly to their kin, offering real love and kinship to their families, fellow muslims and loved ones, which i am quite impressed by... They call each other brothers and sisters....imagine if we called each other brothers and sisters...

Drael, thats a gross mis-statement ...
Go live in Pakistan for a few years. Fathers kill thier daughters if they love a man before holy marraige. Its called honor killings.

You want to see only one color , you go ahead. But open your eyes, and look around.

And as for loving ones kin, meerkats do that in the desert too. So do monkeys.

abhie
11-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Calling each other brothers and sisters may sound good. But in the long run , its better to call one by his own identity.
Also making everyone a brother or sisters, reduces the creative sexual energies.
You can show affection, care and love, without having to call each other brother and sisters.

I like the way in ghettos in America, you are made a blood brother , when there's a deeply emotional bonding of two people. This gives more value to the word brother as well as the relationship , dont you think?

Calling everyone brother/sister is a mite too fake methinks.

eternal_spirit
11-12-2007, 03:01 PM
I must remind myself not to get involved in religious debates. :rolleyes:

bigus_dickus
11-12-2007, 03:03 PM
To those on the other thread that said that each and every contradiction in the Bible could be explained away, what would be your reaction if a muslim told you the same thing? That each and every contradiction in the Quran had a logical and reasonable explanation?

Think....

i think...

that taking one liners out of their context and putting them against each other creates a different impression of the context, as i demonstrated with the "David Icke" example. people who have read David would have disagreed with my conclusion, but people who have never read him, since no one is able to prove that these one liners don't exist, would believe the conclusion that derives without question. so this kind of "research" appears plausible only when you are ignorant of the content.

do the same with the "satanic bible" and i will say exactly the same.

your turn to think now.

drael
11-12-2007, 03:17 PM
Calling each other brothers and sisters may sound good. But in the long run , its better to call one by his own identity.

Not IMO, i find names like brother and sister quite endearing, and personaly identity quite seperating (i like my name, but so what, im also a human like everyone else). I love it when someone says, my freind, so and so...its so unifying...

Also making everyone a brother or sisters, reduces the creative sexual energies.

Well certainly in modern society it might, being we are fairly afraid of pedophilia....Although it doesnt botter me calling a girlfreind sister!

You can show affection, care and love, without having to call each other brother and sisters.

Perhaps, but the name sh*thead and f**kwit, and hey you doesnt quite do the love justice...Just think about how we refer to each other in western society...

I like the way in ghettos in America, you are made a blood brother , when there's a deeply emotional bonding of two people. This gives more value to the word brother as well as the relationship , dont you think?

Um no .. Its certainly and expression of family and closeness of a sort....but not like a christian love or anything...more like soldiers..It doesnt extend very far (You might save your freind from trouble, but what about your other 'brothers"?)

Calling everyone brother/sister is a mite too fake methinks.

Where ive seen muslims speak this way, it seems very genuine. Of course its not fully inclusive to all humanity, but IMO its as genuine as true christian love etc...There are IMO certainly virtues to admire, as well as dogmas to avoid... We are very used to/wary of the idea of "fake love" in western society - IMO there is very little actual fake love, only a general fear of intimacy and an instilled idea of individuality and seperation...

PS i checked out that link to contradictions in the koran, and it seems extremely biased toward muslims... IMO...A little weird even ?

abhie
12-12-2007, 06:10 AM
i think...

that taking one liners out of their context and putting them against each other creates a different impression of the context, as i demonstrated with the "David Icke" example. people who have read David would have disagreed with my conclusion, but people who have never read him, since no one is able to prove that these one liners don't exist, would believe the conclusion that derives without question. so this kind of "research" appears plausible only when you are ignorant of the content.

do the same with the "satanic bible" and i will say exactly the same.

your turn to think now.

I did.

I think your big dick is getting in the way of your brain.

blue
12-12-2007, 07:56 AM
I did.

I think your big dick is getting in the way of your brain.

LMFAO:D

bigus_dickus
12-12-2007, 06:53 PM
I did.

I think your big dick is getting in the way of your brain.

yeah, i get that every time someone is unable to respond properly.

water drinker
27-12-2007, 11:50 AM
I get what you mean. Is this a directed attack on muslims post 911.

Why islam? Why not hinduism , why not budhhism?

Islam because, we as humans recognize the dangers of this cult as a tool to create mass psychosis.

Along with psy-op statements like "islam is the fastest growing religion in the world" , imagine a world dominated by this cult.

In The Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

A tool to create mass pshycosis, lol. Please refrain from making such statements on subjects you have no idea on, you should read more about Islam and you will get a better comprehension of it. The Koran has the answer to life, it tells you everything. You will not find any errors or mistakes in it. There are websites out there that claim they have found errors but if you like on unbiased websites or others you will see these points refuted as they are just fabricated verses.

I know alot of people say Muhammed (pbuh) must of been intoxicated and he wrote the Koran himself in a cave. Please, do you honestly think an illiterate man 1400 years ago in Arabia could of written the finest piece of litrature the world has ever seen? Do you honestly think that this man, Muhammed (pbuh) could of known that atoms existed (in the 7th century?). Do you honestly think he could of known that the earth and universe were at one time joined together? (The big bang).

I can say confidently that if you just read in a bit more you will see behind the racism and discrimination. The Illuminati (if such a thing exists) has no hand in Islam, only Allah has a hand in Islam, sure the Illuminati may be pushing for world domination but they will only get so far. I want to leave you a few websites and a verse from the Koran so you can start reading for yourself and mabye one day you will embrace Islam, after all, there may not be much time left!

Read the Koran online (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM)
Chapter 69: The Reality (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/69.htm)
Miracles Of The Koran (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html)

This post is in good will and hopefully it will erase any first thoughts you had about our religion. Peace!

optimus pigpot
27-12-2007, 12:28 PM
To those on the other thread that said that each and every contradiction in the Bible could be explained away, what would be your reaction if a muslim told you the same thing? That each and every contradiction in the Quran had a logical and reasonable explanation?

Think....

The Quran is just as much bullshit as the Bible. Unproven, ill-founded crap.......

Do away with this crap. Fuck that shit and let's find out who really made us and why we're here..... Because really we don't know, we don't know at all. Even David Icke has produced no evidence to show EXACTLY where we came from.

But I want to know AND I want to know right FUCKING now!!!!!!!

So let's band together, cut the crap and begin!!!!!

NO WORSHIP, NO FUCKING NEED.. FUCK GOD, I'm not afraid to say it. He or she should have done a better job. Don't blame me for Creations faults, I wasn't the Engineer... Fuck Atheism as well because some FUCKER created this and I want to have a serious scrap with that bastard because he's sure trying to fuck my chance at making the best of it.

Or maybe it's all a joke..........

I seriously fucking hope not....

Optimus pigpot....... Quite possibly the angriest Pigpotabot about.......

water drinker
27-12-2007, 12:58 PM
The Quran is just as much bullshit as the Bible. Unproven, ill-founded crap.......

Do away with this crap. Fuck that shit and let's find out who really made us and why we're here..... Because really we don't know, we don't know at all. Even David Icke has produced no evidence to show EXACTLY where we came from.

But I want to know AND I want to know right FUCKING now!!!!!!!

So let's band together, cut the crap and begin!!!!!

NO WORSHIP, NO FUCKING NEED.. FUCK GOD, I'm not afraid to say it. He or she should have done a better job. Don't blame me for Creations faults, I wasn't the Engineer... Fuck Atheism as well because some FUCKER created this and I want to have a serious scrap with that bastard because he's sure trying to fuck my chance at making the best of it.

Or maybe it's all a joke..........

I seriously fucking hope not....

Optimus pigpot....... Quite possibly the angriest Pigpotabot about.......

Actually, the statements in the Koran are 100% proved, fully grounded and founded. It tells you why we are here, how we got here and what our purpose is. As I said, it is dumb to make silly comments like that when you haven't read the Koran yourself, it even tells us that the Holocaust will happen, check the links in my previous post. :)

blue
27-12-2007, 04:00 PM
In The Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

A tool to create mass pshycosis, lol. Please refrain from making such statements on subjects you have no idea on, you should read more about Islam and you will get a better comprehension of it. The Koran has the answer to life, it tells you everything. You will not find any errors or mistakes in it. There are websites out there that claim they have found errors but if you like on unbiased websites or others you will see these points refuted as they are just fabricated verses.

I know alot of people say Muhammed (pbuh) must of been intoxicated and he wrote the Koran himself in a cave. Please, do you honestly think an illiterate man 1400 years ago in Arabia could of written the finest piece of litrature the world has ever seen? Do you honestly think that this man, Muhammed (pbuh) could of known that atoms existed (in the 7th century?). Do you honestly think he could of known that the earth and universe were at one time joined together? (The big bang).

I can say confidently that if you just read in a bit more you will see behind the racism and discrimination. The Illuminati (if such a thing exists) has no hand in Islam, only Allah has a hand in Islam, sure the Illuminati may be pushing for world domination but they will only get so far. I want to leave you a few websites and a verse from the Koran so you can start reading for yourself and mabye one day you will embrace Islam, after all, there may not be much time left!

Read the Koran online (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM)
Chapter 69: The Reality (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/69.htm)
Miracles Of The Koran (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html)

This post is in good will and hopefully it will erase any first thoughts you had about our religion. Peace!

hi water drinker, welcome to the forums. just being curious, could you introduce yourself...are you one of those banned users on this forum who have been promoting islam. what is your purpose behind joining david ickes forum? is it to change peoples thought about islam or is to make them accept islam? sorry to say this but i dont speak for all of the people here BUT i'm sure they are not converting to ISLAM.

and if you belive the quran is has the answer to life......GOOD FOR YOU. please do not IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS ON ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL. I like david icke have no problems with people following islam, hinduism or any other man made religion unless it is being IMPOSED on others.

i hope i have made the point clear.......message ends optimus style

water drinker
27-12-2007, 04:24 PM
hi water drinker, welcome to the forums. just being curious, could you introduce yourself...are you one of those banned users on this forum who have been promoting islam. what is your purpose behind joining david ickes forum? is it to change peoples thought about islam or is to make them accept islam? sorry to say this but i dont speak for all of the people here BUT i'm sure they are not converting to ISLAM.

and if you belive the quran is has the answer to life......GOOD FOR YOU. please do not IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS ON ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL. I like david icke have no problems with people following islam, hinduism or any other man made religion unless it is being IMPOSED on others.

i hope i have made the point clear.......message ends optimus style

Hello Blue

This is my first time here, I was reading as a guest and I saw this thread and I had to clear up the mis conceptions. I'm not imposing my beliefs on anyone, I am just setting things straight and letting you know what Islam is and what the Koran is, because alot of people say all these things when they don't really know, all I wanted to do was to make things clear on what Islam is about, I am sorry you feel I am imposing my beliefs on others I didn't mean to come across that way. My goal wasn't to convert the person to Islam, it was just to correct the misconceptions. :)

blue
27-12-2007, 04:59 PM
well i can understand where you come from water drinker, you were just trying to clear the misconceptions regarding islam. for me, i no longer need islam and i don't believe in this god stuff any more and good to know that this is your first time here.

octopusrex
28-12-2007, 01:26 AM
Instead of trying to nitpick the Koran, Bible and Vedas to death...

Lets find what WORKS.

water drinker
29-12-2007, 11:59 AM
1. I do call to witness this City;-

2. And thou art a freeman of this City;-

3. And (the mystic ties of) parent and child;-

4. Verily We have created man into toil and struggle.

5. Do they think, that none has power over him?

6. He may say (boastfully); Wealth have I squandered in abundance!

7. Does he think that nobody beholds him?

8. Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-

9. And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-

10. And shown him the two highways?

11. But he has made no haste on the path that is steep.

12. And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-

13. (It is: ) freeing the bondman;

14. Or the giving of food in a day of privation

15. To the orphan with claims of relationship,

16. Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.

17. Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.

18. Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.

19. But those who reject Our Signs, they are the (unhappy) Companions of the Left Hand.

20. On them will be Fire vaulted over (all round).

optimus pigpot
29-12-2007, 12:48 PM
Actually, the statements in the Koran are 100% proved, fully grounded and founded. It tells you why we are here, how we got here and what our purpose is. As I said, it is dumb to make silly comments like that when you haven't read the Koran yourself, it even tells us that the Holocaust will happen, check the links in my previous post. :)

Do you wish me to quote from the Quran because as YOU say I have NO knowledge of it whatsoever (or as you illiterate the fool spells it Koran...) If you feel brave let's go and I'll demolish your faith very quickly...

ALLAH AKHBAR.... La Illaha Wa Anna Muhammad (Sallalahu Alaiha Wa Salaam)Urasul Allah.............

Or something close...

What the hell are you doing on hear? How much of Icke's work have YOU read... Got my copy of the QURAN so let's go BOY!!!!!!!!

Fuck me let's hope the MOD's are really into religion because the whole lot's going off in here!!!!!!!

Op out!!! This is getting out of hand.

I vote we call this DAVID ICKE'S OFFICIAL RELIGIOUS FORUM!!!!

WANKBOTS......

optimus pigpot
29-12-2007, 12:56 PM
hi water drinker, welcome to the forums. just being curious, could you introduce yourself...are you one of those banned users on this forum who have been promoting islam. what is your purpose behind joining david ickes forum? is it to change peoples thought about islam or is to make them accept islam? sorry to say this but i dont speak for all of the people here BUT i'm sure they are not converting to ISLAM.

and if you belive the quran is has the answer to life......GOOD FOR YOU. please do not IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS ON ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL. I like david icke have no problems with people following islam, hinduism or any other man made religion unless it is being IMPOSED on others.

i hope i have made the point clear.......message ends optimus style

Exactly to the point Mr. blue...

Forget that crap.. Enough said...

I'm in enough shit on here for a while for expressing my beliefs against these maniacs so I'll just be a little quieter...

Good to see you holding the fort until the re-enforcements arrive.....

Trumpet sounds LOUDLY..

Quite right MASSAGE ends....... Op

octopusrex
29-12-2007, 06:00 PM
Islam comes to challenge Christianity when Christianity falls short of it's promises. Christianity comes to challenge Judaism when Judaism falls short of it's promises. Budhism comes to challenge Brahmanism when Brahmanism falls short.

Religions have a way of solidifying into power structures that are ultimately turned against the original purpose of their founders. In Islam, there is no greater sin than Muslim killing Muslim and yet, since the time of Aisha, Muslim has been killing Muslim, so the Muslims pray for a Mahadi to RESTORE Islam.

The problem is not "religion" but false religious leaders who use religion as a source of control over their devotees.

If Christians would have acted as such, Mohammed might have been spared the trip.

If Muslims acted as such, Mahadi would be spared the trip.

If Hindus acted as such, Budha would have been spared the trip.

...

water drinker
29-12-2007, 07:25 PM
Do you wish me to quote from the Quran because as YOU say I have NO knowledge of it whatsoever (or as you illiterate the fool spells it Koran...) If you feel brave let's go and I'll demolish your faith very quickly...

ALLAH AKHBAR.... La Illaha Wa Anna Muhammad (Sallalahu Alaiha Wa Salaam)Urasul Allah.............

Or something close...

What the hell are you doing on hear? How much of Icke's work have YOU read... Got my copy of the QURAN so let's go BOY!!!!!!!!

Fuck me let's hope the MOD's are really into religion because the whole lot's going off in here!!!!!!!

Op out!!! This is getting out of hand.

I vote we call this DAVID ICKE'S OFFICIAL RELIGIOUS FORUM!!!!

WANKBOTS......

Sure. Let's go, show me what you have got. But, um, how about acting a bit mature? From that post I get the impression you are 12 years old. Do you think we have no purpose on this planet? As the chapter says that I posted before, do you think nobody has power over you? Do you think when you die that is it? Do you think your wealth will last you forever? You are mistaken.

water drinker
31-12-2007, 01:35 AM
Nothing? I thought so. ;)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

blue
31-12-2007, 03:35 AM
Nothing? I thought so. ;)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

why do you think islam is superior than christianity , judaism hinduism and others??

water drinker
31-12-2007, 03:46 AM
why do you think islam is superior than christianity , judaism hinduism and others??

Well first of all there are no errors in our book, none. Second of all if you check out this link (http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html) and this link (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links) you will see that there are hundreds of scientific facts written in the Quran that we only found out about in the 20th or 21st century. It told us at one time the heavens and the earth were joined together, it tells us about embryonic development, it tells us about atoms, waves, the expansion of the universe, less air the higher you go into the sky, what stars look like when they explode, the functions of mountains, the formation of human beings from water, photosynthesis, relativity of time and so much more.

Even in the Quran it tells us that we will find out about these facts that we are now discovering.

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things? (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"

Check out the sites I linked to for more info. :)

blue
31-12-2007, 04:05 AM
Well first of all there are no errors in our book, none. Second of all if you check out this link (http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html) and this link (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links) you will see that there are hundreds of scientific facts written in the Quran that we only found out about in the 20th or 21st century. It told us at one time the heavens and the earth were joined together, it tells us about embryonic development, it tells us about atoms, waves, the expansion of the universe, less air the higher you go into the sky, what stars look like when they explode, the functions of mountains, the formation of human beings from water, photosynthesis, relativity of time and so much more.

Even in the Quran it tells us that we will find out about these facts that we are now discovering.

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things? (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"

Check out the sites I linked to for more info. :)

a small story for u. once a woman was preparing dinner and she cut the corners of the ham before putting them in the pan. The husband asked her "why do you do that" she replied " i dont know, my mother always used to do it". "why did you mother cut the corners of the ham" he asked.
" i dont know, she just did - whats the matter" she said. "ring your mother and ask her why she cut the corners of the ham"she rang her mother "mum, you know when i was a little girl and you used to cut the corners of the ham", why did you do that? "because my pan was not big enough" the mum replied

you come to know about allah because your parents said so, and your parents came to know when their parents said them and so on. this has been going on since ages.....where most of the population was illiterate. this is how one generation conditions the other. the sponge mentality, yes sir mentality. ISLAM does best in imposing its beliefs on others....and if some one doesnt believe.....they are doomed in hell for ever.

water drinker
31-12-2007, 04:32 AM
a small story for u. once a woman was preparing dinner and she cut the corners of the ham before putting them in the pan. The husband asked her "why do you do that" she replied " i dont know, my mother always used to do it". "why did you mother cut the corners of the ham" he asked.
" i dont know, she just did - whats the matter" she said. "ring your mother and ask her why she cut the corners of the ham"she rang her mother "mum, you know when i was a little girl and you used to cut the corners of the ham", why did you do that? "because my pan was not big enough" the mum replied

you come to know about allah because your parents said so, and your parents came to know when their parents said them and so on. this has been going on since ages.....where most of the population was illiterate. this is how one generation conditions the other. the sponge mentality, yes sir mentality. ISLAM does best in imposing its beliefs on others....and if some one doesnt believe.....they are doomed in hell for ever.

What does that have to do with what I posted? Nothing at all. Anyway there is actually a verse in the Quran that describes exactly what you said about people who worship idle gods (Jesus, Vrishna etc)

69. And rehearse to them (something of) Abraham's story.

70. Behold, he said to his father and his people: "What do you worship?"

71. They said: "We worship idols, and we remain constantly in attendance on them."

72. He said: "Do they listen to you when ye call (on them)"

73. Or do you good or harm?"

74. They said: "Nay, but we found our fathers doing thus (what we do)."


I am not a Muslim because my parents were Muslim. I am Muslim because in my time spent in a different culture, when I worked in Syria doing business work, I got given a copy of the Quran and it just went on from there, Islam isn't like Christianity or Judaism, in Islam you feel fulfillment, you know what life is for and you know the meaning of life, you no longer wonder why things happen or why they are there because the Quran gives you the answer. It is prophecised in it that loads of people will convert to Islam as time gets closer to the day of Judgment, now you almost have Islam as the biggest religion in the world, already the most practised religion in the world.

But once again your post had nothing to say about the post that I made before, take a look at the links and think real hard. Jesus was a prophet, not a God, the Quran is the final testament and the final warning. Just take a look at the sites that I linked to. :)

blue
31-12-2007, 11:04 AM
But once again your post had nothing to say about the post that I made before, take a look at the links and think real hard. Jesus was a prophet, not a God, the Quran is the final testament and the final warning. Just take a look at the sites that I linked to. :)

The sumerian civilization which exisited more tham 5000 BC had highly advanced knowledge about sun, planets, solar system and even the planet x which has been lately admitted and added in the solar system.
qurans knowledge falls short in front of sumerian knowledge....judaism, christianity and islam originated from the near and middle east in short the sumerian civilization, babylonian civilization.

blue
31-12-2007, 11:04 AM
I am not a Muslim because my parents were Muslim.
what were you thn

water drinker
31-12-2007, 11:42 AM
The sumerian civilization which exisited more tham 5000 BC had highly advanced knowledge about sun, planets, solar system and even the planet x which has been lately admitted and added in the solar system.
qurans knowledge falls short in front of sumerian knowledge....judaism, christianity and islam originated from the near and middle east in short the sumerian civilization, babylonian civilization.

Yes, so? They didn't know anything of what I listed, which was revealed in the Quran. You still can't refute my points, I'm trying to come across really rationally here but you are still giving me an attitude :(. Once again I have to request you take a look at the links I posted. No errors, contradictions or false claims, Islam is perfect and the Quran is perfect, it dosen't fall short of anything as you claim. :)

what were you thn

Nothing, I didn't ever think what religion or what I was, I just lived life.

pri01
31-12-2007, 11:47 AM
The sumerian civilization which exisited more tham 5000 BC had highly advanced knowledge about sun, planets, solar system and even the planet x which has been lately admitted and added in the solar system.
qurans knowledge falls short in front of sumerian knowledge....judaism, christianity and islam originated from the near and middle east in short the sumerian civilization, babylonian civilization.


Absolutely, in addition to the information about this civilization you can find a lot of stuff on-line. There is lots of evidence in museums too. I think it's a little strange though that someone with such a strong belief system would be on David Icke forum. This is because, information detailed such as that about sumerian culture challenges religion as taught traditionally.

water drinker
31-12-2007, 12:00 PM
Absolutely, in addition to the information about this civilization you can find a lot of stuff on-line. There is lots of evidence in museums too. I think it's a little strange though that someone with such a strong belief system would be on David Icke forum. This is because, information detailed such as that about sumerian culture challenges religion as taught traditionally.

It does not challenge Islam, not in the slightest. I'm here because I believe the NWO is true and I believe 9/11 was an inside job, that's it though.

blue
31-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Yes, so? They didn't know anything of what I listed, which was revealed in the Quran. You still can't refute my points, I'm trying to come across really rationally here but you are still giving me an attitude :(. Once again I have to request you take a look at the links I posted. No errors, contradictions or false claims, Islam is perfect and the Quran is perfect, it dosen't fall short of anything as you claim. :)

Nothing, I didn't ever think what religion or what I was, I just lived life.

yes so?? so my dear friend if you do a bit of research about the cradle of the civilization you will come to know that the story of noah's arc is directly lifted from sumerian one......check this clay tablet which is at the british museum. if you get a chance.....i suggest you do visit the museum
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff176/sohail84/1429460715_25fe717e29_b.jpg

various cultures like the ubaid, mayan, native american, indian, egyptian, phoenician, hebrew, chinese all these speak of a deluge a flood which wiped out most of the humanity.

if you visit IRAQ meet the local people living in the sumer region who still call themselves with that name and whose lifestlye still resembles to the sumerian one.

also my friend think about this. there are some 20 galaxies with in a radius of 1,500,000 light years which gives a high probability for the existence of other forms of life. the milky way contains atleast 16 billion planetary systems. our sun is only one of some 100 billion stars in this galaxy alone and at least one million planets in our galaxy could support life. the question remains if they do exist do they offer namaz, do they keep fast and do they pray allah? and if they do not exist.....why only us....which itself is the scary part to think of.

the middle and the near east has been of very high importance, what a coincidence that the worlds 3 most followed reglions :judaism, christianity and islam emerged from the same region just one after the other. The babylonian myths and symbolism provided the foundations for all the major religions especially christianity. islam mind you has its roots in christianity. you may ask how? well you see islam says there have been more than 1lakh prophets sent on earth by allah right from adam, noah, abraham,moses, jesus and mohammed. islam also includes jesus, moses, abraham who were prophets to their own people. moses is also a fictional character if you can do a bit of research you will find why. and jesus the most talked about controversial fictious character is nothing but a sun symbolism.

islam offers its benefits only after death. islam claims this life on earth is a waste and the real thing if afterlife...who has seen it? just prove it. why to prove it quran says so, so believe it. no body has ever returned from dead to give the testimony of the 70 virgins in heaven, the gardens and the wine. why dont you question this water drinker? coz your dogma doesnt allow you to question it. islam says its allahs will to decide who goes to heaven who goes to hell. even though you may have been a pious person (which i doubt seriously) you may not enter heaven unless allah wishes you. allah can even make a kaafir (non beliver) enter paradise even if he had done one good deed in his life. heck why to pray in the first place if allah decides it all. even if allah exisited....why is he up there and down???...this is where the boundary is created. if islam is so perfect.....then why have 74 different sects in it....why this division answer me.

i tell you what the muslims are driven to .....they are so driven by one and only one goal of reaching to HEAVEN thtz it.....it all boils down to this one word man HEAVEN. and the most weakest person on earth imo is a muslim........why you may ask......just see them when they pray and ask allah.....they cry, they weep they curse jews, christians, US and pray allah to improve the conditions of the muslims world wide....heck allah will do a damn thing......it is us who are in control of our destiny not allah. we are not ordinary people just what religion makes us believe. we are an aspect of eternal consciousness. all we need to do is free ourselves from fear, open our eyes, open our heart and mind. we are in control of our destiny not allah. religion is nothing but an outside force manipulating our mind, controlling us.

just by quoting the verses of quran doesnt make it authentic. it may be a good book to follow but it is a work of the same force which created all other relgions.

blue
31-12-2007, 03:37 PM
Once again I have to request you take a look at the links I posted.

excuse me my friend but i am an ex-muslim. i have read the quran many times. so giving the links to me is a waste of time.

No errors, contradictions or false claims, Islam is perfect and the Quran is perfect, it dosen't fall short of anything as you claim. :)

if islam is perfect then why these 74 sects in it. why this division between people. why the division between allah and humans. why did they fight for the place of mohammeds successor. islam prohibits killing of others, but they waged war against each other and killed each other. answer me.

Nothing, I didn't ever think what religion or what I was, I just lived life.

good this is how we all should live.

.

pri01
31-12-2007, 03:56 PM
It does not challenge Islam, not in the slightest. I'm here because I believe the NWO is true and I believe 9/11 was an inside job, that's it though.


So does the Kuran (apologies if I have spelt it wrong) talk about the Sumerian Anunnuki account of creation?

blue
31-12-2007, 04:24 PM
So does the Kuran (apologies if I have spelt it wrong) talk about the Sumerian Anunnuki account of creation?

if the quran spoke about the sumerian account of creation then how would they make people believe about allah? the arabs at that time were pissed off seriously....jews had their god, christians received their messiah....why the arabs were left alone...damn we need a god for ourselves hmmm lets see...there are these jews in the near by region..and their are these christians....guess what lets connect the dots and hence allah.

pri01
31-12-2007, 06:44 PM
if the quran spoke about the sumerian account of creation then how would they make people believe about allah? the arabs at that time were pissed off seriously....jews had their god, christians received their messiah....why the arabs were left alone...damn we need a god for ourselves hmmm lets see...there are these jews in the near by region..and their are these christians....guess what lets connect the dots and hence allah.


Hi Blue, I asked water drinker about sumerian account of creation because he/she said that information in David Icke books does not challenge Islam when I believe it challenges all religions. I have almost all of Icke books and distinctly recall him siting that all religion were born as a result of the rulers at the time needing a divide and rule strategy.

water drinker
31-12-2007, 10:16 PM
yes so?? so my dear friend if you do a bit of research about the cradle of the civilization you will come to know that the story of noah's arc is directly lifted from sumerian one......check this clay tablet which is at the british museum. if you get a chance.....i suggest you do visit the museum
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff176/sohail84/1429460715_25fe717e29_b.jpg

various cultures like the ubaid, mayan, native american, indian, egyptian, phoenician, hebrew, chinese all these speak of a deluge a flood which wiped out most of the humanity.

if you visit IRAQ meet the local people living in the sumer region who still callthemselves with that name and whose lifestlye still resembles to the sumerian one.

also my friend think about this. there are some 20 galaxies with in a radius of 1,500,000 light years which gives a high probability for the existence of other forms of life. the milky way contains atleast 16 billion planetary systems. our sun is only one of some 100 billion stars in this galaxy alone and at least one million planets in our galaxy could support life. the question remains if they do exist do they offer namaz, do they keep fast and do they pray allah? and if they do not exist.....why only us....which itself is the scary part to think of.

the middle and the near east has been of very high importance, what a coincidence that the worlds 3 most followed reglions :judaism, christianity and islam emerged from the same region just one after the other. The babylonian myths and symbolism provided the foundations for all the major religions especially christianity. islam mind you has its roots in christianity. you may ask how? well you see islam says there have been more than 1lakh prophets sent on earth by allah right from adam, noah, abraham,moses, jesus and mohammed. islam also includes jesus, moses, abraham who were prophets to their own people. moses is also a fictional character if you can do a bit of research you will find why. and jesus the most talked about controversial fictious character is nothing but a sun symbolism.

islam offers its benefits only after death. islam claims this life on earth is a waste and the real thing if afterlife...who has seen it? just prove it. why to prove it quran says so, so believe it. no body has ever returned from dead to give the testimony of the 70 virgins in heaven, the gardens and the wine. why dont you question this water drinker? coz your dogma doesnt allow you to question it. islam says its allahs will to decide who goes to heaven who goes to hell. even though you may have been a pious person (which i doubt seriously) you may not enter heaven unless allah wishes you. allah can even make a kaafir (non beliver) enter paradise even if he had done one good deed in his life. heck why to pray in the first place if allah decides it all. even if allah exisited....why is he up there and down???...this is where the boundary is created. if islam is so perfect.....then why have 74 different sects in it....why this division answer me.

i tell you what the muslims are driven to .....they are so driven by one and only one goal of reaching to HEAVEN thtz it.....it all boils down to this one word man HEAVEN. and the most weakest person on earth imo is a muslim........why you may ask......just see them when they pray and ask allah.....they cry, they weep they curse jews, christians, US and pray allah to improve the conditions of the muslims world wide....heck allah will do a damn thing......it is us who are in control of our destiny not allah. we are not ordinary people just what religion makes us believe. we are an aspect of eternal consciousness. all we need to do is free ourselves from fear, open our eyes, open our heart and mind. we are in control of our destiny not allah. religion is nothing but an outside force manipulating our mind, controlling us.

just by quoting the verses of quran doesnt make it authentic. it may be a good book to follow but it is a work of the same force which created all other relgions.

Once again you have failed to address any of the points that I have brought up. Jesus was not a sun symbol, many legitamate historians have accounted him. From what I can see, your only argument against Islam is that it has 74 sects, is that it? Well, Muhammed prophecised that there would be 74 sects.

So does the Kuran (apologies if I have spelt it wrong) talk about the Sumerian Anunnuki account of creation?

No, though as I said before because of all the facts and signed that were in the Quran but have only been recently discovered by scientific means and that there are no errors that is why we are so condifent in our belief. Allah says in the Quran there is no point in trying to teach most people as no matter what you say they will not see or accept Islam.

Take a look at this page (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html).

pri01
31-12-2007, 11:14 PM
if the quran spoke about the sumerian account of creation then how would they make people believe about allah? the arabs at that time were pissed off seriously....jews had their god, christians received their messiah....why the arabs were left alone...damn we need a god for ourselves hmmm lets see...there are these jews in the near by region..and their are these christians....guess what lets connect the dots and hence allah.

Once again you have failed to address any of the points that I have brought up. Jesus was not a sun symbol, many legitamate historians have accounted him. From what I can see, your only argument against Islam is that it has 74 sects, is that it? Well, Muhammed prophecised that there would be 74 sects.



No, though as I said before because of all the facts and signed that were in the Quran but have only been recently discovered by scientific means and that there are no errors that is why we are so condifent in our belief. Allah says in the Quran there is no point in trying to teach most people as no matter what you say they will not see or accept Islam.

Take a look at this page (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html).


I respect your belief water drinker I've had a little look through your link (which I've added to my favourites by the way because I find it interesting). However, some of the quotes from the Quran, from what I've just seen may not be errorenous from your personal point of belief. They can though, just like those from the Bible, be open to interpretation.

water drinker
31-12-2007, 11:39 PM
I respect your belief water drinker I've had a little look through your link (which I've added to my favourites by the way because I find it interesting). However, some of the quotes from the Quran, from what I've just seen may not be errorenous from your personal point of belief. They can though, just like those from the Bible, be open to interpretation.

Thank you for the reply, I just wanted to note aswell that I know everyone has heard alot about killing innocents and teaching people to kill in the Quran, but it is just simply not true, I know this drives alot of people away from not being intrested but I assure you that these are just lies and no such things can be found in our book. :)

pri01
31-12-2007, 11:58 PM
Thank you for the reply, I just wanted to note aswell that I know everyone has heard alot about killing innocents and teaching people to kill in the Quran, but it is just simply not true, I know this drives alot of people away from not being intrested but I assure you that these are just lies and no such things can be found in our book. :)
I think I should have said misinterpretation in my reply. However, I think this response from you is a little extreme. I don't think that the majority of people think that anyone kills innocents, or teaches to kill. Whatever religion.

water drinker
01-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Heh, you'd be surprised, the amount of people that I have bumped into and told me that they heard I am supposed to kill all infidels. :rolleyes:

pri01
01-01-2008, 12:27 AM
Heh, you'd be surprised, the amount of people that I have bumped into and told me that they heard I am supposed to kill all infidels. :rolleyes:


I've never heared any thing like this. I thought that infidel just meant non-believer. You must hang around with dodgey people IMO:rolleyes:

water drinker
01-01-2008, 12:51 AM
Well you know what it's like these days, with the mainstream media on a mission to make Muslims look like animals lol. Anyway I'm glad you have added the site to your favourites, if you have any questions you can just ask me in this thread. Happy new year. :)

blue
01-01-2008, 03:02 AM
Once again you have failed to address any of the points that I have brought up. Jesus was not a sun symbol, many legitamate historians have accounted him. From what I can see, your only argument against Islam is that it has 74 sects, is that it? Well, Muhammed prophecised that there would be 74 sects.

MY ARGUMENT IS NOT AGAINST ISLAM HAVING 74 SECTS OR GIVING 70 VIRGINS TO PEOPLE WHO BLOW THEMSELVES OUT......MY ARGUMENT IS THAT ISLAM IS BEING IMPOSED ON EVERYBODY, .......DO NOT IMPOSE IT ON ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL, YOU CAN WAIT TILL YOU DIE AND THEN GO TO PARADISE AND HAVE FUN WITH THE VIRGINS.

No, though as I said before because of all the facts and signed that were in the Quran but have only been recently discovered by scientific means and that there are no errors that is why we are so condifent in our belief. Allah says in the Quran there is no point in trying to teach most people as no matter what you say they will not see or accept Islam.

ONCE AGAIN YOU FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANY OTHER PROOF OR FACT APART FROM QURAN......THIS SHOWS YOUR IGNORANCE AND ARROGANCE. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS IN THE PREVIOUS POST.

Take a look at this page (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html).

THERE ARE MORE SCIENTIFIC FACTS, PROOFS WHICH HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BY EARLIER CIVILIZATIONS LIKE LEMUR, ATLANTIS, SUMER, EGYPTIAN, BABYLON AND SO FORTH.......ALL THESE HAVE BEEN THERE MORE THAN 5000 BC QURAN WAS PUBLISHED........WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT?

blue
01-01-2008, 03:05 AM
It does not challenge Islam, not in the slightest. I'm here because I believe the NWO is true and I believe 9/11 was an inside job, that's it though.

IF YOU ARE HERE TO FIND OUT ABOUT NWO THEN I SUGGEST YOU STICK TO IT....DO NOT PROMOTE ISLAM ON DAVID ICKES FORUM.

blue
01-01-2008, 03:11 AM
Hi Blue, I asked water drinker about sumerian account of creation because he/she said that information in David Icke books does not challenge Islam when I believe it challenges all religions. I have almost all of Icke books and distinctly recall him siting that all religion were born as a result of the rulers at the time needing a divide and rule strategy.

WATER DRINKER CANNOT ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS IN MY PREVIOUS POST BECAUSE HE IS JUST A MUSLIM CONVERT WHO HAS BEEN GIVEN QURAN TO READ....HE HAS NOTHING TO SAY APART FROM A HANDFUL OF FACTS WHICH THE QURAN CITED.....APART FROM THEM QURAN DOESNT EVEN STAND IN FRONT OF THE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY OF THE LOST CIVILIZATION, IM SURE YOU WOULD AGREE ON THIS.

PRI01, DAVIDS WORK PUTS EVERY RELIGION TO QUESTION, ISLAM BEING NO EXCEPTION.

water drinker
01-01-2008, 03:18 AM
Blue, how old are you? Act more mature please.

octopusrex
01-01-2008, 06:00 AM
IF YOU ARE HERE TO FIND OUT ABOUT NWO THEN I SUGGEST YOU STICK TO IT....DO NOT PROMOTE ISLAM ON DAVID ICKES FORUM.

Blue: Do you really think Icke has all the answers? If somebody wants to pitch a Muslim rap or a Christian rap or an Octopus rap.. Who are we to critizise?

Might be a Muslim knows more about Islam than you and can shed some valuable information that even Icke has missed.

blue
01-01-2008, 10:20 AM
Blue, how old are you? Act more mature please.

im quite old enough for you to know

blue
01-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Blue: Do you really think Icke has all the answers? If somebody wants to pitch a Muslim rap or a Christian rap or an Octopus rap.. Who are we to critizise?

Might be a Muslim knows more about Islam than you and can shed some valuable information that even Icke has missed.

no body has the answers BUT these religions think THEY have all the answers.