First Impact not shown until 11:49PM on 9/11.

[dave52]

Having been refered to as an immature, lazy researcher in another thread, I thought I'd go through the Video archive of 911.

http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive


The first mention of the first impact footage is at the 26:43 mark of this video:

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109112323-0005

This is CNN tv archive footage and the anchor man interupts the guy he's interviewing with the phrase:

"We've just received fresh video, new video of the first plane smashing into the World Trade Centre, I want to show that to you and to our audience, let's just watch."

This chunk of video runs from 11:23PM on the day of September 11, which means that this footage was not seen until 11:49PM.

I have checked the other videos on the site. ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and the BBC hadn't shown the footage by the time the first block of archive runs out at 12:30AM 9/12

So there you have it, definitive proof that the first impact wasn't seen until around midnight on September 11th.

[ragnarok]

I hope chewy doesn't see this thread. He'll see it as a personal attack on his precognitive family.

[ponzi nemesis]

I hope chewy doesn't see this thread. He'll see it as a personal attack on his precognitive family.

He's going to have to go through a nervous breakdown over this at some stage, it might as well be now. It's a bit like Ponzi schemes. I got my 'handle' battling with those a few years back. People used to complain that by helping bring them down I was causing people to lose money, but I would argue that the longer they went on the bigger they'd get and the more people would lose money when they finally collapsed. Chewy's nervous breakdown is a bit like that I think.

Which is a cause for optimism, eh? Whatever we've had to go through with all this 'truth' business it's going to be a lot harder on those still sleepwalking now, especially those who have religiously been defending the 'official' stories, both in this arena and so many others. We may have quite a bit of baby-sitting to do for our poor deluded brethren when they finally get their heads around it all.

[ragnarok]

The funniest thing is, Duhbunkers are arguing themselves into a corner by defending the establishment and its profiteers from association with nefarious conspiracy theories. Eventually a Conspiracy Theory is going to be established as a Conspiracy Fact Of Life, and all their trustingly built preconceptions are going to come tumbling down.

[ponzi nemesis]

The funniest thing is, Duhbunkers are arguing themselves into a corner by defending the establishment and its profiteers from association with nefarious conspiracy theories. Eventually a Conspiracy Theory is going to be established as a Conspiracy Fact Of Life, and all their trustingly built preconceptions are going to come tumbling down.

And not a moment to soon...

Re:Evolution - YouTube

If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

Human history represents such a radical break with the natural systems of biological organization that preceded it, that it must be the response to a kind of attractor, or dwell point that lies ahead in the temporal dimension. Persistently Western religions have integrated into their theologies the notion of a kind of end of the world, and I think that a lot of psychedelic experimentation sort of confirms this intuition, I mean, it isn't going to happen according to any of the scenarios of orthodox religion, but the basic intuition, that the universe seeks closure in a kind of omega point of transcendance, is confirmed, it's almost as though this object in hyperspace, glittering in hyperspace, throws off reflections of itself, which actually ricochet into the past, illuminating this mystic, inspiring that saint or visionary, and that out of these fragmentary glimpses of eternity we can build a kind of map, of not only the past of the universe, and the evolutionary egression into novelty, but a kind of map of the future, this is what shamanism is always been about.

A shaman is someone who has been to the end, it's someone who knows how the world really works, and knowing how the world really works means to have risen outside, above, beyond the dimensions of ordinary space, time, and casuistry, and actually seen the wiring under the board, stepped outside the confines of learned culture and learned and embedded language, into the domain of what Wittgenstein called "the unspeakable", the transcendental presense of the other, which can be absanctioned, in various ways, to yield systems of knowledge which can be brought back into ordinary social space for the good of the community, so in the context of ninety percent of human culture, the shaman has been the agent of evolution, because the shaman learns the techniques to go between ordinary reality and the domain of the ideas, this higher dimensional continuum that is somehow parallel to us, available to us, and yet ordinarily occluded by cultural convention out of fear of the mystery I believe, and what shamans are, I believe, are people who have been able to de-condition themselves from the community's instinctual distrust of the mystery, and to go into it, to go into this bewildering higher dimension, and gain knowledge, recover the jewel lost at the beginning of time, to save souls, cure, commune with the ancestors and so forth and so on.

Shamanism is not a religion, it's a set of techniques, and the principal technique is the use of psychedelic plants. What psychedelics do is they dissolve boundaries, and in the presence of dissolved boundaries, one cannot continue to close one's eyes to the ruination of the earth, the poisoning of the seas, and the consequences of two thousand years of unchallenged dominator culture, based on monotheism, hatred of nature, suppression of the female, and so forth and so on. So, what shamans have to do is act as exemplars, by making this cosmic journey to the domain of the Gaian ideas, and then bringing them back in the form of art to the struggle to save the world. The planet has a kind of intelligence, that it can actually open a channel of communication with an individual human being. The message that nature sends is, transform your language through a synergy between electronic culture and the psychedelic imagination, a synergy between dance and idea, a synergy between understanding and intuition, and dissolve the boundaries that your culture has sanctioned between you, to become part of this Gaian supermind, I mean I think it's fairly profound, it's fairly apocalyptic. History is ending. I mean, we are to be the generation that witnesses the revelation of the purpose of the cosmos. History is the shock wave of the eschaton. History is the shock wave of eschatology, and what this means for those of us who will live through this transition into hyperspace, is that we will be privileged to see the greatest release of compressed change probably since the birth of the universe. The twentieth century is the shudder that announces the approaching cataracts of time over which our species and the destiny of this planet is about to be swept.

If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

The emphasis in house music and rave culture on physiologically compatible rhythms and this sort of thing is really the rediscovery of the art of natural magic with sound, that sound, properly understood, especially percussive sound, can actually change neurological states, and large groups of people getting together in the presence of this kind of music are creating a telepathic community of bonding that hopefully will be strong enough that it can carry the vision out into the mainstream of society. I think that the youth culture that is emerging in the nineties is an end of the millenium culture that is actually summing up Western civilization and pointing us in an entirely different direction, that we're going to arrive in the third millenium, in the middle of an archaic revival, which will mean a revival of these physiologically empowering rhythm signatures, a new art, a new social vision, a new relationship to nature, to feminism, to ego. All of these things are taking hold, and not a moment too soon.

[troubled]

thanks for finding this Dave

[ponzi nemesis]

thanks for finding this Dave

Yes, I forgot to mention it; well done, someone had to do it :)

[911 chewy defense]

This chunk of video runs from 11:23PM on the day of September 11, which means that this footage was not seen until 11:49PM.

So there you have it, definitive proof that the first impact wasn't seen until around midnight on September 11th.

You make a very contridictive claim Dave. You said that it ran at 11:23 PM EST on 9/11, then you said it wasn't seen until 11:49 PM EST on 9/11.

So you're lying out your ass to prove that you can't tell time.

Dave, until that clock struck midnight, you would've had a case. But you actually debunked yourself without you even knowing it. :rolleyes:

I'm laughing at the unintelligence of Truthers on this one! :D

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6585308#post6585308

Read post #186! :D

[dave52]

11:23pm (when that video began) + 26:43 minutes (how far into the video before the first strike footage was shown) = 11:49pm.

Just before midnight on 9/11. Not in the morning as you have claimed.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I've always said it was shown very late on 9/11 or possibly early on 9/12.

[911 chewy defense]

11:23pm (when that video began) + 26:43 minutes (how far into the video before the first strike footage was shown) = 11:49pm.

Just before midnight on 9/11. Not in the morning as you have claimed.

Actually it was in the morning on the morning report.

You know Dave, I just suckered you into admitting that the footage was shown on 9/11, when you & others have claimed that the footage was shown the day after. Which in turn makes all of you a bunch of liars in my eyes, & proof that you Truthers will continure to lie for the Truth Movement & A&E for 9/11 Truth.

You just stepped on a "land mine", welcome to the world of REALITY!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I've always said it was shown very late on 9/11 or possibly early on 9/12.

Wanna make a bet that you didn't make it clear in my Flight 93 tread? Again with the lying, Dave?!

[dave52]

Actually it was in the morning on the morning report.

Check the archive - as I have. It doesn't surface until the end of the day, give it up Chewy...

Wanna make a bet that you didn't make it clear in my Flight 93 tread? Again with the lying, Dave?!

Er...

There was no footage of the first impact before the second impact. There are only two pieces of film that show it, one didn't come out until years later, one was filmed by one of the Naudet brothers and didn't surface until the next day (or possibly right at the end of Tuesday).

[earthicastar]

Actually it was in the morning on the morning report.

and your proof is where??

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/1sthitdp51.gif

do you even know what a plane looks like?

[911 chewy defense]

Here's my proof that it was shown on the morning of 9/11 between 8:48 & 9:29 AM EST:

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

Taken from the same archive files from the 1 that Dave supplied.

Again, y'all are a bunch of liars!

[911 chewy defense]

Check the archive - as I have. It doesn't surface until the end of the day, give it up Chewy...

Er...

You're lying Dave! :rolleyes:

You still insist that it wasn't shown until after the second plane strike? Again, you lie!

[911 chewy defense]

and your proof is where??

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/1sthitdp51.gif

do you even know what a plane looks like?

Obviously you don't know what a plane looks like because you turn a blind eye.

Flight 11 struck WTC 1 & none of you Truthers can't prove that it didn't.

[earthicastar]

Actually it was in the morning on the morning report.

would you please SHOW us that report?

[911 chewy defense]

would you please SHOW us that report?

I just did, & stop ignoring it:

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

[dave52]

At what point was the first plane impact footage shown...? No-one denies that the story broke before 9:00am, no-one denies there was lots of live footage showing a burning, smoking hole in the first tower.

We are talking about the first impact footage.

[911 chewy defense]

At what point was the first plane impact footage shown...?

Just watch the video, can you atleast do that Dave?:

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

No-one denies that the story broke before 9:00am, no-one denies there was lots of live footage showing a burning, smoking hole in the first tower.

Lying again Dave? Didn't mommy & daddy ever tell you not to lie to anyone?? :mad:

We are talking about the first impact footage.

No shit Sherlock, what gave you that clue? :rolleyes:

[ragnarok]

Either chewy has gone full retard, or he's trolling like a mofo. :D



ps. My own money is on the former. The pressure of 9 years defending a bunch of liars has finally got to him, and we are now witnessing his burn-out phase.

[earthicastar]

I watched the video link you posted chewy.. there is NO FIRST PLANE...

remember Bush sid he SAW it on TV... BEFORE he walked into the classroom? He admits his aid told him about the second plane while he was INSIDE the classroom

CBS reported that BUsh was told about the first plane BEFORE he even left his hotel to go TO the school

so look at the time frame

How could Jules Naudet film the first plane.. then go inside the towers and film inside, then be on the outside and film the second plane.. and get his footage to the news before bush walked into the school


chewy.. you are wasting your morning breath

SHOW us the SPECIFIC footage with a time stamp that showed the FIRST plane that yoiu claim was aired in the morning... you know... the one Bush saw BEFORE he walked into the classroom


you are the only liar I see here

[911 chewy defense]

Either chewy has gone full retard, or he's trolling like a mofo. :D

You saying that because you know I'm right & you're wrong?

You Truthers are such gullible people that even I can get you people to admit when you're lying.

Telling the truth isn't "trolling", however telling lies, like you guys do, & going to other forums & coming back here to complain about the evidence is trolling at it's finest. You Truthers simply took trolling to a whole new level of low.

[911 chewy defense]

I watched the video link you posted chewy.. there is NO FIRST PLANE...

<snip>

you are the only liar I see here

Wow, it took you 15 minutes to watch a nearly 1 hr. video? You didn't even watch the whole video did you? I know you didn't!

Really? I'm a liar because you only watched 15 minutes of a nearly 1 hr. video because you say so? You really got not balls do you?? :rolleyes:

[dave52]

Chewy, you're not exactly covering yourself in glory here.

I went to the effort to show the tv footage where the first impact was broadcast for the very first time, and I gave you a timestamp within that video to jump to so that you could see it for yourself.

Can you please give me the exact time stamp (minutes and seconds) in your linked video where the first impact footage was shown. The actual plane hitting the building, not just a burning smoking gash.

Thanks.

[911 chewy defense]

Chewy, you're not exactly covering yourself in glory here.

I went to the effort to show the tv footage where the first impact was broadcast for the very first time, and I gave you a timestamp within that video to jump to so that you could see it for yourself.

Can you please give me the exact time stamp (minutes and seconds) in your linked video where the first impact footage was shown. The actual plane hitting the building, not just a burning smoking gash.

Thanks.

Dave, you're just showing me that you're ignoring what I told you to do, & you know it.

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

Why do you need to see the plane hitting the building? Isn't a smoking hole enough to confirm that?

[ragnarok]

Wow, it took you 15 minutes to watch a nearly 1 hr. video?

Pop Quiz Question #1: How long was there between the first impact and the second impact?

Was it

a) less than 20 minutes, b) more than 20 minutes

#2: How long would you have to watch this hour long program for to determine whether the first plane flying into a tower was shown before the second plane had even arrived?

Was it

a) less than 20 minutes, b) more than 20 minutes

Take your time, chewy. We wouldn't want you to make a fool of yourself.

[ragnarok]

Dave, you're just showing me that you're ignoring what I told you to do, & you know it.

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

Why do you need to see the plane hitting the building? Isn't a smoking hole enough to confirm that?

Oh, fuck this trying to be a zen buddhist lark, I'm getting annoyed now!

Listen, you tard, you said you saw the first plane flying into the first tower on the morning it happened, NOT that you saw the after effects of a plane flying into the tower. GTFO of here, you boring moron.

[dave52]

What Ragnarok said. Really Chewy, you silly little man.

[911 chewy defense]

Pop Quiz Question #1: How long was there between the first impact and the second impact?

Was it

a) less than 20 minutes, b) more than 20 minutes

#2: How long would you have to watch this hour long program for to determine whether the first plane flying into a tower was shown before the second plane had even arrived?

Was it

a) less than 20 minutes, b) more than 20 minutes

Take your time, chewy. We wouldn't want you to make a fool of yourself.

Both answers are A!

I don't have to make a "fool" of myself. You on the other hand, are doing a wonderful job at being that fool.

[911 chewy defense]

What Ragnarok said. Really Chewy, you silly little man.

And you have nothing of value to offer on your part, Dave.

[ragnarok]

Both answers are A!

I don't have to make a "fool" of myself. You and the rest of the posters in this thread on the other hand, are doing a wonderful job at making me look like a fool of the lowest bulb dimness.

Fixed that for ya, chewy.

[911 chewy defense]

Oh, fuck this trying to be a zen buddhist lark, I'm getting annoyed now!

Listen, you tard, you said you saw the first plane flying into the first tower on the morning it happened, NOT that you saw the after effects of a plane flying into the tower. GTFO of here, you boring moron.

Name calling is a form of being desprite & being proven wrong. :p

Awe, you wanna name call now? What's the matter Rag, you having a mental breakdown or just admitting that you were wrong from the get-go? :rolleyes:

[911 chewy defense]

Fixed that for ya, chewy.

You can change my posts all you like Rag, it doesn't make a damn difference anymore. You know that I've got you & the rest of you people in a lie.

Acting like a child isn't going to get you any where in life. So grow up! :cool:

[ragnarok]

Name calling is a form of being desprite & being proven wrong. :p

Awe, you wanna name call now? What's the matter Rag, you having a mental breakdown or just admitting that you were wrong from the get-go? :rolleyes:

Yes, that's right; I'm calling you names because the level of your intellect is too much for me to keep up with! :rolleyes:

Keep dreaming, fella. ;)

[911 chewy defense]

Yes, that's right; I'm calling you names because the level of your intellect is too much for me to keep up with! :rolleyes:

Keep dreaming, fella. ;)

It's more like the level of my research skills compared to yours. You really suck at researching anything about 9/11 on your own. You consider that Truther websites hold the "facts & evidence" when all they contain is speculative bullshit & hearsay.

Name call me all you like Rag. The people at JREF will know what makes you tick! ;)

[one666]

11:23pm (when that video began) + 26:43 minutes (how far into the video before the first strike footage was shown) = 11:49pm.

Just before midnight on 9/11. Not in the morning as you have claimed.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I've always said it was shown very late on 9/11 or possibly early on 9/12.

You are right my friend.Nevermind what people say who can't grasp the concept of maths, i usually ignore people who deliberately try to make me look stupid. I am sure it will get fedup and go away.

[911 chewy defense]

You are right my friend.Nevermind what people say who can't grasp the concept of maths, i usually ignore people who deliberately try to make me look stupid. I am sure it will get fedup and go away.

How can others make you people look stupid when you've done that to yourselves?

The Truther websites alone make you people look stupid as it is. Considering that they contain no facts or evidence of any kind to make them the truth.

You people think you have a victory against the Government? You don't realize how hallow of a victory that is.

[earthicastar]

How can others make you people look stupid when you've done that to yourselves?

The Truther websites alone make you people look stupid as it is. Considering that they contain no facts or evidence of any kind to make them the truth.

You people think you have a victory against the Government? You don't realize how hallow of a victory that is.


you're the only one making a fool out of yourself.. showing just how ignorant and retarded you really are..

you haven't posted a shred of proof of anything you claim


now ...shoo little flea.. you bother me

[ragnarok]

Btw, it took just under 15mins of chewy's piece de resistance video to prove chewy completely wrong regarding seeing actual footage of the first plane flying into Tower 2, before the second tower was hit.

[one666]

Obviously you don't know what a plane looks like because you turn a blind eye.

Flight 11 struck WTC 1 & none of you Truthers can't prove that it didn't.

Ok then chewy, you prove that it did then but with real hard evidence.

[911 chewy defense]

you're the only one making a fool out of yourself.. showing just how ignorant and retarded you really are..

you haven't posted a shred of proof of anything you claim


now ...shoo little flea.. you bother me

If I was "fool, ignorant & retarded" as you claim me to be, then where's your evidence to prove that I'm either?

And all you can do is sit at your computer, bitch & complain to me about your lack of research & pin all your mistakes on me because you lack the skills to do proper researching.

I'm not going anywhere! I have the facts, the evidence & my opinions stand.

[911 chewy defense]

Btw, it took just under 15mins of chewy's piece de resistance video to prove chewy completely wrong regarding seeing actual footage of the first plane flying into Tower 2, before the second tower was hit.

Actually, y'all made the claim that the footage wasn't shown in the morning, which it was. I just proved that you're a liar Rag, what else can I do but prove that you are?

[911 chewy defense]

Ok then chewy, you prove that it did then but with real hard evidence.

You wouldn't stand the real hard evidence because you'd reject the evidence anyways. It's computed in your gullible mind to disreguard the evidence & throw any explaination away so that you're demented view of 9/11 is of your own ignorance.

[earthicastar]

Actually, y'all made the claim that the footage wasn't shown in the morning, which it was. I just proved that you're a liar Rag, what else can I do but prove that you are?

Actually... YOU showed NOTHING... liar

[911 chewy defense]

Actually... YOU showed NOTHING... liar

I showed that you Truthers can act like a bunch of children when cornered with facts & evidence.

I find it funny that you'd give your location as being: "In a nutshell". And indeed you are!

[ragnarok]

Actually, y'all made the claim that the footage wasn't shown in the morning, which it was.

Actually, any neutral could easily check the history of this thread and the one that spawned it, and establish that what YOU have said is that you - just like Dubya - saw footage of the first plane hitting T2 before the second tower was hit, and that WE have been saying all along that you are full of shit.

[one666]

You wouldn't stand the real hard evidence because you'd reject the evidence anyways. It's computed in your gullible mind to disreguard the evidence & throw any explaination away so that you're demented view of 9/11 is of your own ignorance.

I am not demented chewy. I am not arguing with you chewy. I am only asking for hard indisputable evidence, nothing more.

[killtown]

People, please stop feeding the troll.

[ragnarok]

Watching that CNN broadcast again, as the news broadcasters are talking to Winston(Who the fuck, he?), at 14.56, you see the plane fly in stage right and the broadcast breaks up into blackness for a micro-second, and then you see the explosion from the second impact. Those dumb bastards in the studio didn't even notice it, they were that busy getting Winston's expert testimony. :rolleyes:

[911 chewy defense]

Actually, any neutral could easily check the history of this thread and the one that spawned it, and establish that what YOU have said is that you - just like Dubya - saw footage of the first plane hitting T2 before the second tower was hit, and that WE have been saying all along that you are full of shit.

You don't have evidence to prove what you're claiming to be true. So in fact you're the 1 that's full of shit, not Dubya, me or the millions that watched it that morning around the world.

You have a cold chance in hell to prove that they didn't show the footage that morning. You're chances are 1,000,000+ to 1, Rag. Good luck proving the people around the world wrong cause you know you can't. :p

[ragnarok]

People, please stop feeding the troll.

Can't we even poke him with sharp sticks? Damn, you're no fun! :(

[ragnarok]

You don't have evidence to prove what you're claiming to be true. So in fact you're the 1 that's full of shit, not Dubya, me or the millions that watched it that morning around the world.

You have a cold chance in hell to prove that they didn't show the footage that morning. You're chances are 1,000,000+ to 1, Rag. Good luck proving the people around the world wrong cause you know you can't. :p

<chewy scores nil points >

[911 chewy defense]

I am not demented chewy. I am not arguing with you chewy. I am only asking for hard indisputable evidence, nothing more.

Why would I need to prove to you? Aren't you the one who's looking for answers?

You need to research about Flight 11 before we can go any further. It's not my job to research it for you. You, alone, must prove to me that Flight 11 did or didn't hit WTC1.

[911 chewy defense]

<chewy scores nil points>

And you have nothing to say, other than that lame statement?

[911 chewy defense]

People, please stop feeding the troll.

We encourage posters to post facts and opinions about a wide range of topics, including; other authors, books, DVD's, articles, and websites. However, this can be done without resorting to unfounded allegations and abuse.

Posting facts/evidence & opinions isn't trolling. Not by a long shot!

[ragnarok]

And you have nothing to say, other than that lame statement?

I'm tired of playing with you, chewy. Your entertainment value is decreasing with every repetitive "I know the truth about 9/11, ner, ner!" post you make. And besides, it's starting to feel like I'm taking the piss out of the class moron, and there's little satisfaction in that... well, at least not enough to keep me amused on a cold dark night.

[killtown]

Can't we even poke him with sharp sticks? Damn, you're no fun! :(
It's obvious chewy has severe psychological issues. Continuing to "poke" him is like giving an alcoholic alcohol. Have some compassion for his problems.

[911 chewy defense]

I'm tired of playing with you, chewy. Your entertainment value is decreasing with every repetitive "I know the truth about 9/11, ner, ner!" post you make. And besides, it's starting to feel like I'm taking the piss out of the class moron, and there's little satisfaction in that.

It's because you can't get me to stoop to your level, isn't that right Rag?

[ragnarok]

It's obvious chewy has severe psychological issues. Continuing to "poke" him is like giving an alcoholic alcohol. Have some compassion for his problems.

Make your mind up! He was a troll earlier on, and they are fair game whether they are dumb or informative.

[ragnarok]

It's because you can't get me to stoop to your level, isn't that right Rag?

Stoop? No, it's a pair of step-ladders you need. And that's just to reach the sole of my foot.

[911 chewy defense]

It's obvious chewy has severe psychological issues. Continuing to "poke" him is like giving an alcoholic alcohol. Have some compassion for his problems.

You wanna talk about psychology Killtown?:

The psychology of a 9/11 Truther is that of a person who has limited reasoning skills, thought processes and concepts on reality. Their attitudes towards others with a different view or opinion is very prejudice and has many traits. Take the trait of rigidty, which means inability to adapt to a situation. When they are asked a set of questions or are asked to present evidence reguarding their theories and claims they will change the subject immediately. They adapt to ignore questioning while under pressure to provide evidence to prove their theories and claims. Truthers are very rigid, they are self-contained and have a narrow view of the world and a prevailing outlook on history. They see the world as their group (9/11 Truth Movement) sees it, being that they are "ethnocentric". Consequently Truthers hate the people that are hated by their immediate group, the 9/11 Truth Movement. Truthers have learned to rely upon the authorities and standards which regulate, among other things, the prejudice of the group. Truthers have to have the "standard" prejudices to be a "normal" member of the group. Meaning that if they do not do what the group is expected of them they will not be part of the group. In the years from September 11, 2001, not one single shred of phsyical evidence from a 9/11 Truther has turned up.

Truthers often claim to have "mountains of evidence", but won't show it to the general public for fear of being rediculed and humiliated for not having the evidence on hand while in a debate. They will sway away from the real facts and evidence and present their own perverted and twisted versions of events reguarding 9/11. The problem with Truthers is that they imagine everything in a fantasy realm. They will fabricate doctored videos and pictures to suit their motives, it's the only way they can get their false information out to the public. Only they see the fantasy and noone else. The 9/11 Truth Movement doesn't want to look for the truth.

Let me remind you, this is my opinion about your psychological issues.

[one666]

Why would I need to prove to you? Aren't you the one who's looking for answers?

You need to research about Flight 11 before we can go any further. It's not my job to research it for you. You, alone, must prove to me that Flight 11 did or didn't hit WTC1.

You have forgered me chewy, naughty naughty. In order to prove your point to others you must first provide hard indisputable evidence to prove that point. I will ask you again, Please show us your best evidence to prove your point.

[killtown]

Make your mind up! He was a troll earlier on, and they are fair game whether they are dumb or informative.
Yes, he's been a troll from day one on this forum because he is sick. Are mentally unbalanced people "fair game"? I hope not in your world. I'd hope you'd show some compassion for the sick.

[911 chewy defense]

You have forgered me chewy, naughty naughty. In order to prove your point to others you must first provide hard indisputable evidence to prove that point. I will ask you again, Please show us your best evidence to prove your point.

The evidence has already been displayed for all to see for over 9 yrs. It's not my job to research it for you. I know the answers & looked at the evidence & came to my own conclussions.

If you don't like my conclussion, then don't bother asking me again.

[ragnarok]

Chewy, simple question... wouldn't want to tax your little pea-brain too much - have you or have you not typed the following during your participation on this messageboard?
On the morning of Sept. 11th, I woke up & was preparing for the days tasks'. I turned on the TV & watched WJAC News & was shocked at what had happened in NY. They showed the recorded first plane impact into WTC1

If it looks unfamiliar, that might be because I've highlighted it with a Red font, so if you are having difficulty, you might want to change it back to normal.

[911 chewy defense]

Yes, he's been a troll from day one on this forum because he is sick. Are mentally unbalanced people "fair game"? I hope not in your world. I'd hope you'd show some compassion for the sick.

Speaking of being sick:

9/11 Truthers suffer from paranoia schizophrenia. It's a disease related to the thought process, basically the brain and mental compacity. Truthers suffer from this type of disease because they don't know the events that happened in the real world and that the events of 9/11 were too much for their minds to process the information. They choose to ignore what had happened on 9/11, they think they have seen something other than what reality is projecting. In short they're imagining things that others can't imagine. They also pretend to ignore the evidence presented to them and what they are shown. 9/11 Truthers are mentally disturbed, and maybe that's why they are suffering from paranoia schizophrenia. Truthers also suffer from narcisim, where their reality is warped, where they have a split personality. That's from being themselves one time then being another version of themselves the next.

Paranoid Personality Disorder is a disorder in which 9/11 Truthers suffer from.

Their symptoms include:

1: Concern that other people have hidden motives
2:Expectation that they will be exploited by others
3: Inability to work together with others
4: Poor self image
5: Social isolation
6: Detachment
7: Hostility


Seems to me that I'm not the one that's sick around here. Again this is my opinion!

[911 chewy defense]

Chewy, simple question... wouldn't want to tax your little pea-brain too much - have you or have you not typed the following during your participation on this messageboard?


If it looks unfamiliar, that might be because I've highlighted it with a Red font, so if you are having difficulty, you might want to change it back to normal.

And you have difficutly accepting those facts. Ignorance is bliss when you're completely clueless, isn't that true, Rag?

[ragnarok]

Yes, he's been a troll from day one on this forum because he is sick. Are mentally unbalanced people "fair game"? I hope not in your world. I'd hope you'd show some compassion for the sick.

We have differing definitions of "troll" then.

[ragnarok]

And you have difficutly accepting those facts. Ignorance is bliss when you're completely clueless, isn't that true, Rag?

Answer the question, or we'll all put you on ignore and just talk about you. I've already sent the PM's to see who's game.

[killtown]

We have differing definitions of "troll" then.
Regardless, continuing to respond to him will just exacerbate his problems. I'd just hope you would show some compassion for the sick.

[911 chewy defense]

Answer the question, or we'll all put you on ignore and just talk about you. I've already sent the PM's to see who's game.

I've already answered it, but you ignored my answer. Typical of a shill from the Truth Movement.

Awe, you sent out PM's to your local homies! Boo hoo hoo! NOT! :rolleyes:

[911 chewy defense]

Regardless, continuing to respond to him will just exacerbate his problems. I'd just hope you would show some compassion for the sick.

Yeah, someone should show that YouTube video of you & Dylan Avery arguing & him yelling: "Big lies!" to you, Killy!

That video was a riot, & I still find it hilarious!

[ragnarok]

Damn, he called my bluff. I'm beginning to think he's even more stupid than I initially suspected.

[one666]

The evidence has already been displayed for all to see for over 9 yrs. It's not my job to research it for you. I know the answers & looked at the evidence & came to my own conclussions.

If you don't like my conclussion, then don't bother asking me again.

I don't like nor dislike your conclusions, they are your conclusions and you are welcome to them. Everyone has the right to come to their own conclusions. I am not trying to make fun of you like the rest.

[ragnarok]

I don't think we're trying to make fun of chewy. I think we've done a great job of it so far.

We couldn't have done it without his help tho', so we have to give him credit for inspiring us.

[ponzi nemesis]

Excellent work, Chewy. You really have this "reductio ad absurdum" off to a tee. For those who don't understand what's going on here, let me draw an analogy to a false-flag attack.

Chewy pretends to 'attack' the 'truther' movements using arguments that can easily be reduced ('reductio' in Latin) to ('ad' in Latin) absurdity ('absurdum' in Latin). We get fired up and rip his arguments to shreds. People watching associate Chewy's arguments with the official story which causes them to discredit the whole official story along with Chewy's version of events.

We get irritated, and Chewy appears to melt down. He may have to go the whole way, ending up completely dysfunctional and perhaps even institutionalised. He appears to be under very deep cover but, at the 'we are all one, infinite love experiencing separation', the 'collective unconsciousness', the 'God' if you like, level, Chewy is 'one of us'.

Whatever you want to call this entity that, deep down, we all are, that we all represent different facets of in this 3d, 5-sense reality we all cling to 'down here' most of the time, still, it seems, 'it' seems to 'move in a mysterious way', and, as we get closer to the 'end', whatever that may be, things seem to get more and more bizarre, more messed up, unintelligible, as a result. I created a thread on this which, in seriousness, I fully recommend anyone reading have a look at. This all may seem like a joke but, in reality, it is not. Here's the thread:

Puzzle of life like Rubik's Cube (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144121)

Let me flesh this out a bit more with another analogy. Imagine what it would be like for individual cells in your body to have consciousness, and that, most of the time at least, most of those cells didn't seem to be aware that they were part of a greater, intelligent, corporate whole, i.e. you.

If you get drunk the liver cells being poisoned scream out in anger, seeing the cells of the arm that lifts the bottle as part of some evil plot to kill them, controlled by some mythical, never seen cells rumoured to be in the head. In reality you know what you're doing, or at least you may do(!), and are happy that you're keeping it under control enough that the liver will regenerate fully (or not! :eek:).

In any case you know, or at least hopefully do, what is going on at some higher level, one concentrated on the 'human consciousness' level rather than the cellular level, but the cells find what is happening confusing.

Whatever is going on here is similar. God knows (literally!) what the overall plan is. I have my ideas, perhaps this is effectively some kind of dream where we 'teach' ourselves not to have 'big government', not to worship money, or whatever; not being God, or more specifically, not operating, not yet at least, fully at the level of the overall collective consciousness, I can't tell you.

Hopefully this will help the confused, casual observer get some insights into what is happening here. It explains why 9/11 was so ridiculous, why for example building seven came down at actual free-fall acceleration, not 9.6 or 9.7 m/s2 but fully 9.8, why Silverstein made that little 'pull it' speech, why Bush, and Chewy (bless him!) said they saw the first plane, and why they stick to the story.

People like Chewy and Bush are, in effect, deeply mind-controlled intellectual equivalents of the suicide bomber. Many believe 'we' get to consciously choose our 'roles' down here before we come. It seems they have made braver decisions than us if so. That said, assuming the Buddhists' models are more-or-less accurate, with the small addition of temporal irreverence*, we may well get to decide what role to play next time. It could be interesting to come back 'here', 'later'**, to see what it would be like to be a 'Chewy', perhaps even to be Chewy himself, arguing an indefensible position at this late stage in the game with real conviction!

Perhaps I've typed enough. Hopefully some will have read it and a few will have understood. Not that it really matters. It is all working out beautifully, really. Hats off to Chewy for pulling off this very difficult role so well. I couldn't have done it so well myself :) That is an amusing statement because, it is quite clear to me now, that it is, of course, 'myself'. I keep coming back, again and again, playing all these different roles, so deep in my method acting that I've forgotten who I really am.

The truth slips out from time to time though through our subconscious, especially in art. Remember that Beatles line, "I am he as you are he as you are me as we are all together"? Did you assume they were just stoned and therefore it was nonsense? I guess I did for a while...

Life is beautiful when you embrace theism, Buddhism and hyper-dimensional thinking. In short you realise that we are all God, reincarnating again and again out of time. Who are you going to come back as next? Chewy, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney...?

Anyway we'd probably better do our best to forget all this again and carry on playing our roles a bit longer. This approach is too direct for most, I expect we'll have to keep up these 'truther' theatrics a while longer yet :D

* Most Buddhists think of reincarnation in terms of coming 'back' here in the same time-line so to speak; you die, spend a few weeks in a Bardo state, then slip into an embryo somewhere back down here, presumably one conceived around the time of your death. This may be how it works, but, as a thought experiment, imagine what might happen if time ended in some way, and we, perhaps, all merged with the 'collective'. Then it would make sense that we could 'go back' and start a new 'lineage'. We may even just be able to 'dot around' as we choose; the Buddhist models may just be overly simplistic. Being 'here' seems to be incompatible with really knowing how it all works in detail so, if you think about it, all the so-called teachings are bound to be inaccurate to some extent.

** This is confusing because 'here' is 'here and now' on this level, 'later' is in terms of our hyper-dimensional conscious experience, i.e. we might choose, 'later', to come back in 'time' to 'here and now'.

[onourway]

Dave, you're just showing me that you're ignoring what I told you to do, & you know it.

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

Why do you need to see the plane hitting the building? Isn't a smoking hole enough to confirm that?

In other words..... no footage of plane....just a smoking hole

[911 chewy defense]

I don't like nor dislike your conclusions, they are your conclusions and you are welcome to them. Everyone has the right to come to their own conclusions. I am not trying to make fun of you like the rest.

Well you can't blame me for being on my guard. Truthers generally are disrespectful to the 9/11 witnesses, victims & families.

I'm just saying that I don't have to show the evidence, it's been out to the public for over 9 yrs. & Truthers expect me to show them. Well I'm not stooping to thier level of intelligence & I'm not doing their homework for them.

They can either prove that I'm "wrong" with evidence & sources to the evidence or they can simply shut the hell up.

[911 chewy defense]

I don't think we're trying to make fun of chewy. I think we've done a great job of it so far.

We couldn't have done it without his help tho', so we have to give him credit for inspiring us.

You can't make fun of a flea in a flea circus Rag, give it up!

[ragnarok]

Now you've gone and done it, ponzi. You know you'll be getting loads of nonsensical bold comments interspersed between all your paragraphs, as he takes your post and methodically picks it apart.

Or was that some other poster who does that? There's that many of you on here, I can't keep up with y'all!

[911 chewy defense]

In other words..... no footage of plane....just a smoking hole

You know, I wish could've taped WJAC-TV that day to show you goofballs that you're wrong. But I guess my memory, not your memories, will have to do.

[troubled]

chewy shot himself in the foot again, spam n troll got him no where

[ragnarok]

You know, I wish could've taped WJAC-TV that day to show you goofballs that you're wrong. But I guess my memory, not your memories, will have to do.

Are you sure it wasn't WJACKOFF-TV?

[ponzi nemesis]

Well you can't blame me for being on my guard. Truthers generally are disrespectful to the 9/11 witnesses, victims & families.

Excellent work, Chewy, do keep it up if you can! With respect to the above I'd love to know how you fit this thinking into the context of the 'Building What?' ad (http://buildingwhat.org/buildingwhat-tv-ad/). It's only 30 seconds long; could you watch it and tell me how the family members it presents, who would like to see a new investigation into the events of that day, fit into your theory about 'Truthers' being 'disrespectful'?

[I strap myself in in a Bill Hicks 'Christianity and Dinosaurs' kind of way...]

[earthicastar]

Here's the plane you saw chewy

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/attack%20on%20america/holoWTC7.gif

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/art/l_11110d9ce31e268d7e02b24ba5e79d3e1.jpg


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/newsday12thlrgnz3.jpg

don't worry.. the pig's fine!
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/art/1317278999_l1.jpg



I swear.. I NEVER had sex with THAT president
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/earthica/attack%20on%20america/Starbush1.jpg

[ponzi nemesis]

[I strap myself in in a Bill Hicks 'Christianity and Dinosaurs' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk) kind of way...]

I'm just watching that again. Even if you've seen it before do watch it again now and consider the 'prankster God fucking with our heads' aspect in the context of this thread and my previous post, and perhaps it'll all start to make sense :D

[ponzi nemesis]

You can't make fun of a flea in a flea circus Rag, give it up!

We also give the 'truth' (not in a 9/11 sense here but a 'higher level' one) away so often in off-hand comments like this one. The 'flea in a flea circus' analogy will do just as well as the 'cell in a human body' analogy I used in the long post I made a few back now.

We are like fleas in a flea circus but we don't know it. Whatever forces are getting us to perform we fail to perceive them. We're all operating at 'flea consciousness' level, we perceive a struggle but the flea circus ringmaster and audience perceive entertainment.

If I bring the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation) stuff into this too then it gets even weirder. There is no 'truth'. There's a world where we are all mad and Chewy is right, for example. We don't believe we are in that world and I doubt our contiguous experience, which seems to go through a continuous process of collapsing down and out of the various, parallel worlds, will get to see it, but it's there, however difficult it is to imagine.

This idea may seem sacrilegious but bare in mind that all we are doing here is arguing about shadows on a cave wall in a Platonic sense. It's all bollocks, theatre, nonsense. But while we're still in the harnesses I guess that's all there is to do...

[ragnarok]

"There is none so blind as he who willl not see... and that guy, chewy!"

I think someone in a holy book said that, so it must be true.

[dave52]

You know, I wish could've taped WJAC-TV that day to show you goofballs that you're wrong. But I guess my memory, not your memories, will have to do.

I've worked it out.

CNN were broadcasting their American Morning program from their New York studios and Jules Naudet was in New York when he filmed the first impact footage.... right...?

Well, the reason CNN didn't show the footage until nearly midnight is because Jules immediately drove to Johnstown, Pennsylvania to ensure that WJAC-TV got the scoop on the crash movie... It all makes sense...

Thanks for clearing it all up for me Chewy.


Oh, by the way. I've been thinking about the fact that you described me as lazy in the other thread. I suspect that the very definition of lazy is knowing that many hi-jacked planes were in the air during a huge terrorist attack and, on hearing a very low, very loud plane pass over your house, you couldn't even be bothered to get off your arse to look out of the window to see what sort of a plane it was...

[ragnarok]

I've worked it out.

CNN were broadcasting their American Morning program from their New York studios and Jules Naudet was in New York when he filmed the first impact footage.... right...?

Well, the reason CNN didn't show the footage until nearly midnight is because Jules immediately drove to Johnstown, Pennsylvania to ensure that WJAC-TV got the scoop on the crash movie... It all makes sense...

Thanks for clearing it all up for me Chewy.


Oh, by the way. I've been thinking about the fact that you described me as lazy in the other thread. I suspect that the very definition of lazy is knowing that many hi-jacked planes were in the air during a huge terrorist attack and, on hearing a very low, very loud plane pass over your house, you couldn't even be bothered to get off your arse to look out of the window to see what sort of a plane it was...

Him and the rest of his privileged precog family, were probably too busy gloating over the special broadcast they had received, to get off the sofa.

[ponzi nemesis]

"There is none so blind as he who willl not see... and that guy, chewy!"

I think someone in a holy book said that, so it must be true.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” Leonardo da Vinci

With respect to this stuff a few must be in the first category. I am in the second; I guy I met in a pub a couple of years ago then "Loose Change v.2" were my introduction to being 'shown'. Chewy seems to be in the third.

If Leonardo is right then, since he has been shown and still isn't seeing, he is in this third category and therefore never will see. However I didn't 'get it' for a week or two myself so it may, in fact, be pretty hard to differentiate between the second and third categories.

Even the first is a bit dubious when you think about it further. What exactly is the difference between seeing and being shown? If our collective unconscious is doing 'all this' anyway (see for example the Global Consciousness Project (http://noosphere.princeton.edu), specifically their work on 9/11 (http://noosphere.princeton.edu/terror.html)) then even those who 'see' are 'being shown' anyway.

Sigh... what is there left to say?

The Specials - Pearls Cafe - YouTube

[Jump to 1:30 in if you can't be bothered to listen to the whole song]

[hadabusa]

Wow, it took you 15 minutes to watch a nearly 1 hr. video? You didn't even watch the whole video did you? I know you didn't!

Really? I'm a liar because you only watched 15 minutes of a nearly 1 hr. video because you say so? You really got not balls do you?? :rolleyes:

shesa lady,so yeah, she got no balls.

[hadabusa]

Dave, you're just showing me that you're ignoring what I told you to do, & you know it.

http://www.archive.org/details/cnn200109110848-0929

Why do you need to see the plane hitting the building? Isn't a smoking hole enough to confirm that?

no,it isnt for your claim.

[ragnarok]

shesa lady,so yeah, she got no balls.

Faaarkin ell... do you mean to say chewy has got something right?

[ponzi nemesis]

Faaarkin ell... do you mean to say chewy has got something right?

That is the most amusing post I have seen for a while :)

[hadabusa]

Faaarkin ell... do you mean to say chewy has got something right?

sheer luck.

give a drunk monkey a machinegun&he'll hit something eventually.

[troubled]

sheer luck.

give a drunk monkey a machinegun&he'll hit something eventually.
maybe the drunk monkey would hit chewy

[ponzi nemesis]

maybe the drunk monkey would hit chewy

No, they're comrades in arms; they both saw the first impact live on TV remember?

http://www.webbusiness.no/webprivat/usa/upfiles/bush_monkey.jpg

[air_bn]

Either chewy has gone full retard, or he's trolling like a mofo. :D
ps. My own money is on the former. The pressure of 9 years defending a bunch of liars has finally got to him, and we are now witnessing his burn-out phase.

Much as it is against my nature (relatively lately) to take the p that had me in stitches:D

Sorry Chewy:)

Good find Dave,takes all the confusion away doesn't it Chewy!

[earthicastar]

You know, I wish could've taped WJAC-TV that day to show you goofballs that you're wrong. But I guess my memory, not your memories, will have to do.

so... all you have of the first plane being actually SHOWN on the morning of 9/11 is in your mind...

i think that pretty much closes this case.. put up ...
or shut the F*k up liar

[ponzi nemesis]

Good find Dave,takes all the confusion away doesn't it Chewy!

The amazing thing is that Chewy is completely impervious to any evidence we show him. It is really quite incredible. I've come across it with a few others, too. There is something about the 9/11 story that causes some quite functional people to seemingly become completely irrational. Interestingly that's how many of them seem to see us, too.

Perhaps the Universe is splitting, like an amoeba, and the Chewies (is that how you make Chewy plural?) of this world are on one side of a rapidly growing chasm with 'us' on the other side. It certainly is going to be interesting to see how this all unfolds over the next year or two :D

[ultima1]

You know, I wish could've taped WJAC-TV that day to show you goofballs that you're wrong. But I guess my memory, not your memories, will have to do.

So your trying to say you are the only one that is right and everyone eles is wrong?

Shows whay kind of mentallity we are dealing with. Your lack of common sense and maturity is amazing.

[killtown]

So your trying to say you are the only one that is right and everyone eles is wrong?

Shows whay kind of mentallity we are dealing with. Your lack of common sense and maturity is amazing.
I've been trying to tell everyone that he's mentally imbalanced. Responding to him only encourages him.

[ultima1]

I've been trying to tell everyone that he's mentally imbalanced. Responding to him only encourages him.

Kind of like some of the JREFers who still believe the official story and believe they see a 757 in the Pentagon video.

[matrix911]

So your trying to say you are the only one that is right and everyone eles is wrong?

Shows whay kind of mentallity we are dealing with. Your lack of common sense and maturity is amazing.

awweee, how cute, one shill/troll attacking another.

oh the irony

[flat_top]

@matrix911

"awweee, how cute, one shill/troll attacking another.oh the irony"

-Exactly. How perfect is that? :D

[sicknote]

awweee, how cute, one shill/troll attacking another.

oh the irony

There probably sat next too each other in the Pentagon.

[codie]

We also give the 'truth' (not in a 9/11 sense here but a 'higher level' one) away so often in off-hand comments like this one. The 'flea in a flea circus' analogy will do just as well as the 'cell in a human body' analogy I used in the long post I made a few back now.

We are like fleas in a flea circus but we don't know it. Whatever forces are getting us to perform we fail to perceive them. We're all operating at 'flea consciousness' level, we perceive a struggle but the flea circus ringmaster and audience perceive entertainment.

If I bring the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation) stuff into this too then it gets even weirder. There is no 'truth'. There's a world where we are all mad and Chewy is right, for example. We don't believe we are in that world and I doubt our contiguous experience, which seems to go through a continuous process of collapsing down and out of the various, parallel worlds, will get to see it, but it's there, however difficult it is to imagine.

This idea may seem sacrilegious but bare in mind that all we are doing here is arguing about shadows on a cave wall in a Platonic sense. It's all bollocks, theatre, nonsense. But while we're still in the harnesses I guess that's all there is to do...

I couldn't agree more. :)

[ultima1]

awweee, how cute, one shill/troll attacking another.

oh the irony

-Exactly. How perfect is that? :D


There probably sat next too each other in the Pentagon.

Dodges still noted.

So funny how you have to state i am a shill/troll to dodge the fact you cannot post evidence to debate me.

Everyone can see who the real shill/troll are.

[free mind me]

But one man see the first plane live in his mind.:D