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eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 11:01 AM
http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/montana_de_cadaveres_en_un_gulag_sovietico.jpg
No, these are not Jewish bodiesDead in the Red Soviet Gulag

Are they Germans? Finns? Ukrainians?


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/trialRichPeasants.jpg
Here's your "criminals"Peasants the Jewish communists wanted off their land


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/ukrainefamineholodomor.jpg
Ukrainian victims - starved on purpose

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/3holodomor.jpg
The world knewStill, the Soviets became our ally and "friend":mad:


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/ukr_children_small.jpg
Ukrainian ChildrenMillions were starved to death

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/photo01-s.jpg http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/famine_stamp4-s.jpg

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/soviet_crimes.htm

more pics and info at link

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 11:02 AM
That's close to 70 million Russians killed by Jewish communists

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 11:18 AM
People sent to the Gulags included peasants who were accused of "individualistic tendencies" and opposed the establishment of collective farms. Large numbers of Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Kirghiz, Mordovians and Caucasians fell into this category.
Large numbers of people living along the western frontier of the Soviet Union (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RussiaSU.htm) and Chinese and Koreans who lived along the eastern border were deported to Gulags in the interior just before the outbreak of the Second World War (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WW.htm).





Others were sent to labour camps because of their religious beliefs. This included Catholics, Baptists and members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
During the Second World War (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WW.htm) people sent to Soviet labour camps included collaboration with the enemy under the occupation, prisoners of war, and men and women taken from Nazi Germany (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERnazigermany.htm).

It is estimated that around 50 million perished in Soviet gulags between 1930 and 1950!

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Hitler knew

He knew what was going on in Russia

Dr. Adolf Ehrt, historian and Director of the agency in Germany that was charged with administering Soviet information called the

Anti-Komintern

In 1933 Ehrt wrote the book

Communism in Germany: The Communist Conspiracy on the Eve of the 1933 National Revolution

After the Jews declared war on Germany

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/dailyexpress1933.gif
March, 1933
March, 1933

After the Jews/Communists took over Russia

After the Jews/Communists attempted to take over Germany

And failed

The book details the great lengths that the Jewish communists went through in order to turn Germany into another Russia

In the end, Hitler and his National Socialist Party prevailed



The last chapter of the book is titled "The Task"

It's a sunning indictment of the Christian nations who brought Germany down

Ehrt writes that Germany fought communism in 1933 not only for itself, but for all western Christian nations in a war against Bolshevism.

In the end - We instead chose Red Communist Jewish Russia as our ally

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 12:05 PM
We know Communists where sending many people/races/religions to the Gulags. And invading countries and slaughtering many.

Hence the varied oppostion they encountred examples of the diversity of Nazi soldiers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHkWs8iI/AAAAAAAAHIc/g1KECQDbCds/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-turkmenistanis.jpg

Turkish
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHXCkb3I/AAAAAAAAHIU/x5kWio882SY/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-koreans.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHXCkb3I/AAAAAAAAHIU/x5kWio882SY/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-koreans.jpg)
Koreans

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEG6ovrWI/AAAAAAAAHIM/jzUqRKPcsB4/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-jews.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEG6ovrWI/AAAAAAAAHIM/jzUqRKPcsB4/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-jews.jpg)
Jews. Mostly as guards of concentration camps. Jews of course were not foreigners. They were as German as anyone else.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7xTMUxI/AAAAAAAAHIE/QAEMcSDXc3Q/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese-fighters.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7xTMUxI/AAAAAAAAHIE/QAEMcSDXc3Q/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese-fighters.jpg)Japanese

What were the Japs doing here? They could have well served in their nation's army. Some kind of exchange? Or were there Japanese people in Germany in large numbers?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7DKbMbI/AAAAAAAAHH8/XO_kMhRPXq0/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7DKbMbI/AAAAAAAAHH8/XO_kMhRPXq0/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese.jpg)This Japanese is an officer in the German army

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6wk1kTI/AAAAAAAAHH0/zNWraPIQ6c4/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-indian.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6wk1kTI/AAAAAAAAHH0/zNWraPIQ6c4/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-indian.jpg)Indians. Efforts of Subhash Chandra Bose.

Bose was anti-British. He met Hitler in Berlin and raised the Indian unit in the Wehrmacht. Enemy's enemy is a friend, I guess.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6gxgwqI/AAAAAAAAHHs/VixK1i6Ro78/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-georgians-azerbaijan.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6gxgwqI/AAAAAAAAHHs/VixK1i6Ro78/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-georgians-azerbaijan.jpg)Georgians and Azerbaijanis

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6SkHfxI/AAAAAAAAHHk/UxQ2_WZZrns/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-chechens.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6SkHfxI/AAAAAAAAHHk/UxQ2_WZZrns/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-chechens.jpg)
Chechen

One can understand the Chechen in the German army. Their struggle against Russia continues till this day.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODreUlHmI/AAAAAAAAHHc/DmmE1YlrIng/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian-muslims.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODreUlHmI/AAAAAAAAHHc/DmmE1YlrIng/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian-muslims.jpg)
Bosnian Muslims

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODrKcJ1gI/AAAAAAAAHHU/bey82KaSBNE/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODrKcJ1gI/AAAAAAAAHHU/bey82KaSBNE/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian.jpg)

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 12:08 PM
Africans

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqrvV7PI/AAAAAAAAHHM/9v0pCIF_kOw/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-africans.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqrvV7PI/AAAAAAAAHHM/9v0pCIF_kOw/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-africans.jpg)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqCpTulI/AAAAAAAAHG8/E4zsn__aOqs/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-001.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODqCpTulI/AAAAAAAAHG8/E4zsn__aOqs/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-001.jpg)Hitler shrewdly maintained good relations with the Arab world

freedom1st
27-10-2010, 12:11 PM
There are some truly sick, evil, scum in this world!

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 12:34 PM
There are some truly sick, evil, scum in this world!
Sure is, but they never taught us anything about who ran the Gulags at school, or how many died.

Tired of seeing Nazi threads holocaust this that etc, about time to show the ignorant the Jewish mass murderers who where killing long before world war2 and the Gulag death camps ran until 1953 or 56?

Guess those goys lives were not worth saving....where was the international alliances of forces to go shut down the Gulags...and defeat Communism.

General Patton US - wanted too and he believed that Communism was the real threat and said himself when he and his army took Germany that they had backed the wrong side and destroyed an advanced civilised culture/country (something like that).


Part of the article Patton's own words/quotes

With great reluctance, and only after repeated promptings from Eisenhower, he had thrown German families out of
their homes to make room for more than a million Jewish DP's -- part of the famous "six million" who had
supposedly been gassed -- but he balked when ordered to begin blowing up German factories, in accord with the
infamous Morgenthau Plan to destroy Germany's economic basis forever. In his diary he wrote:

* "I doubted the expediency of blowing up factories, because the ends for which the factories are
being blown up -- that is, preventing Germany from preparing for war -- can be equally well attained
through the destruction of their machinery, while the buildings can be used to house thousands of
homeless persons."

Similarly, he expressed his doubts to his military colleagues about the overwhelming emphasis being placed on the
persecution of every German who had formerly been a member of the National Socialist party. In a letter to his wife of
September 14, 1945, he said:

* "I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff. It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to
sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands (i.e., the Soviet Union's Gulags), where many will be
starved to death."

Despite his disagreement with official policy, Patton followed the rules laid down by Morgenthau and others back in
Washington as closely as his conscience would allow, but he tried to moderate the effect, and this brought him into
increasing conflict with Eisenhower and the other politically ambitious generals. In another letter to his wife he
commented:

* "I have been at Frankfurt for a civil government conference. If what we are doing (to the Germans) is
'Liberty, then give me death.' I can't see how Americans can sink so low. It is Semitic, and I am sure of
it."

And in his diary he noted:,

* "Today we received orders . . . in which we were told to give the Jews special accommodations. If for
Jews, why not Catholics, Mormons, etc? . . . We are also turning over to the French several hundred
thousand prisoners of war to be used as slave labor in France. It is amusing to recall that we fought
the Revolution in defense of the rights of man and the Civil War to abolish slavery and have now
gone back on both principles."

His duties as military governor took Patton to all parts of Germany and intimately acquainted him with the German
people and their condition. He could not help but compare them with the French, the Italians, the Belgians, and even the
British. This comparison gradually forced him to the conclusion that World War II had been fought against the
wrong people.

After a visit to ruined Berlin, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945: "Berlin gave me the blues. We have destroyed what
could have been a good race, and we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will be
communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those
who did not were raped. I could have taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed."

This conviction, that the politicians had used him and the U.S. Army for a criminal purpose, grew in the following weeks.
During a dinner with French General Alphonse Juin in August, Patton was surprised to find the Frenchman in agreement
with him. His diary entry for August 18 quotes Gen. Juin: "It is indeed unfortunate, mon General, that the English
and the Americans have destroyed in Europe the only sound country -- and I do not mean France.
Therefore, the road is now open for the advent of Russian communism."

Later diary entries and letters to his wife reiterate this same conclusion. On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the
Germans are the only decent people left in Europe. it's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer
the Germans." And on September 2: "What we are doing is to destroy the only semi-modern state in Europe,
so that Russia can swallow the whole."

By this time the Morgenthauists and media monopolists had decided that Patton was incorrigible and must be
discredited. So they began a non-stop hounding of him in the press, a la Watergate, accusing him of being "soft on
Nazis" and continually recalling an incident in which he had slapped a shirker two years previously, during the Sicily
campaign. A New York newspaper printed the completely false claim that when Patton had slapped the soldier who was
Jewish, he had called him a "yellow-bellied Jew."

Then, in a press conference on September 22, reporters hatched a scheme to needle Patton into losing his temper and
making statements which could be used against him. The scheme worked. The press interpreted one of Patton's
answers to their insistent questions as to why he was not pressing the Nazi-hunt hard enough as: "The Nazi thing is just
like a Democrat-Republican fight." The New York Times headlined this quote, and other papers all across America
picked it up.

The unmistakable hatred which had been directed at him during this press conference finally opened Patton's eyes fully
as to what was afoot. In his diary that night lie wrote:



* "There is a very apparent Semitic influence in the press. They are trying to do two things: first,
implement communism, and second, see that all businessmen of German ancestry and non-Jewish
antecedents are thrown out of their jobs.

"They have utterly lost the Anglo-Saxon conception of justice and feel that a man can be kicked out
because somebody else says he is a Nazi. They were evidently quite shocked when I told them I would
kick nobody out without the successful proof of guilt before a court of law . . .

"Another point which the press harped on was the fact that we were doing too much for the Germans
to the detriment of the DP's, most of whom are Jews. I could not give the answer to that one, because
the answer is that, in my opinion and that of most nonpolitical officers, it is vitally necessary for us to
build Germany up now as a buffer state against Russia. In fact, I am afraid we have waited too long."

And in a letter of the same date to his wife: "I will probably be in the headlines before you get this, as the press is
trying to quote me as being more interested in restoring order in Germany than in catching Nazis. I can't tell
them the truth that unless we restore Germany we will insure that communism takes America."

Eisenhower responded immediately to the press outcry against Patton and made the decision to relieve him of his duties
as military governor and "kick him upstairs" as the commander of the Fifteenth Army. In a letter to his wife on September
29, Patton indicated that he was, in a way, not unhappy with his new assignment, because "I would like it much
better than being a sort of executioner to the best race in Europe."

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96003

freedom1st
27-10-2010, 12:40 PM
Good thread ES. People should know the truth no matter how unpleasant it is.
Let's see how they try to deny what is in this thread..

soleil
27-10-2010, 01:18 PM
Trevor Phillips will surely be delighted if he learned that the Wehrmacht was a diverse and vibrant example of multiculturalism in action.

I have also heard that there was a Persian regiment that fought to the very end in the Battle of Berlin.

tinyint
27-10-2010, 01:43 PM
http://zeithistorische-forschungen.de/Portals/_ZF/images/default/solzenicyn_cover_0306.jpg

All you need to know.

It was apparently a forbidden book in GDR, showing the bitter truth of the bolshevist murder system, they accused us to have.

drakul
27-10-2010, 02:13 PM
My friends - please don't fall for this Nazi ploy. Look at what the Nazis did in the Balkans. In former Yugo they built the largest concentration camp outside of Germany for the CHRISTIAN Serbs. Why? Because the Serbs were Orthodox and not Catholic. The VATICAN was a major force in promoting and funding Hitler.

700,000 innocent Orthodox Christian men women and children died in that camp known as Jascenovac.

Sure the Germans were scared as Hell of the Bolsheviks. Is this an example of PROBLEM REACTION = SOLUTION?


From - "The Vatican's Holocaust" by Avro Manhattan.

"The non-Catholic population of Catholic Croatia (that's Yugoslavia) were given two basic alternatives: conversion or death. Their church buildings were closed, parish documents destroyed, ecclesiastical buildings burned down, Orthodox worshippers very often were arrested inside their own churches, and kept there or in local halls while awaiting their fate: forced conversion, concentration camps or execution. Their survival, more often than not, depended upon the whim of the Ustachi Commandants and of the Catholic Padres (priests) accompanying them."


Ante Pavelic, the head of the Ustashi State of Croatia, surrounded with Croatian Catholic clergy in April, 1942. He was to Yugoslavia, what Hitler was to Germany.


The bishops and archbishops of Croatia gave full support to the Ustashi. Here, the Croatian bishops and archbishops are seen pictured with Ante Pavelic during one of their frequent conferences with him.


Nuns marching together with Croatian Nazi-legionnaires (Ustashi).


Pavelic among Croatian nuns. They were decorated (see decoration on chest) by Pavelic for their "heroic" Ustashi deeds.


An Ustashi, with a sadistic smile on his face, chopping off a man's head with an ax.


This photograph of Ustashi taken in Bosnia in 1943 before they executed their victim.

"Mass murders were supplemented by the massacre of individuals, mostly in rural districts. The Ustachi very often used the most primitive weapons, such as forks, spades, hammers and saws, to torture their victims prior to their execution. They broke their legs, pulled off their skin and beards, blinded them by cutting their eyes with knives and even tearing them from their sockets." This information is documented by pictures and by the sworn testimony of survivors.

"They did not spare women or children. To quote only one instance: 'In the villages between Vlasenica and Kladani the Nazi occupational troops discovered children who had been impaled upon stakes by the Ustachi, their little members distorted with pain.' Catholic priests advocated the killing of children.


A priest named Ivan Raguz, repeatedly urged the killing of all Serbs, including children so that "not even the seeds of the beasts are left."

A Catholic priest named Juric said, "Today it is no longer a sin to kill a child of seven, should such a child be opposed to our movement of the Ustachi.'"

"The worst atrocities, strange as it may seem, were carried out by members of the intelligentsia. The case of Peter Brzica is undoubtedly one of the most incredible in this category. Peter Brzica had attended the Franciscan College at Siroki, Brijeg, in Herzegovina, was a law student, and a member of the Catholic organization of Crusaders. In the concentration camp at Jasenovac, on the night of August 29,1942, orders were issued for executions. Bets were made as to who could liquidate the largest number of inmates. Peter Brzica cut the throats of 1,360 prisoners with a specially sharp butcher's knife. Having been proclaimed the prize-winner of the competition, he was elected King of the Cut-throats. A gold watch, a silver service and a roasted suckling pig and wine were his rewards."

The Franciscan monk, Miroslav Filipovic, left, as a priest; wearing his cassock, right, in Ustashi uniform. Filipovic was the commandant of the concentration camp at Jasenovac.

Jasenovac concentration camp distinguished itself because of the number of young inmates sent there. In 1942 the camp held over 24,000 Orthodox youngsters. Twelve thousand of them were murdered in cold blood.

Corpses of children starved to death in the concentration camp at Jasenovac.

Ustashi carrying the head of a Serbian Orthodox priest.

At Dubrovinick, Dalmatia, fascist soldiers had photographs of an Ustashi wearing two necklaces. One was a string of cut-out eyes, the other of torn out tongues of murdered Orthodox Serbs.

The atrocities of the Ustachi far surpassed mere physical torture. Their victims were tormented emotionally as well. An example of the unprecedented brutality is recorded by the sworn testimony of several witnesses regarding the following incident.

At Nevesinje, the Ustachi arrested one whole Serbian family consisting of father, mother and four children. The mother and children were separated from the father. For seven days they were tortured by starvation and thirst. Then they brought the mother and children a good-sized roast, and plenty of water to drink. These unfortunates were so hungry that they ate the entire roast. After they finished, the Ustachi told them that they had eaten the flesh of their father.

This happened in our generation, beloved. This is an example of the unleashed rage of the Vatican. I once read that, "Rome when in minority is as gentle as a lamb, when in equality is as clever as a fox, and when in the majority is as fierce as a tiger." I believe that this is an accurate description.


http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_03b.asp Click for pictures

tinyint
27-10-2010, 02:24 PM
From - "The Vatican's Holocaust" by Avro Manhattan.

"The non-Catholic population of Catholic Croatia (that's Yugoslavia) were given two basic alternatives: conversion or death. Their church buildings were closed, parish documents destroyed, ecclesiastical buildings burned down, Orthodox worshippers very often were arrested inside their own churches, and kept there or in local halls while awaiting their fate: forced conversion, concentration camps or execution. Their survival, more often than not, depended upon the whim of the Ustachi Commandants and of the Catholic Padres (priests) accompanying them."


Ante Pavelic, the head of the Ustashi State of Croatia, surrounded with Croatian Catholic clergy in April, 1942. He was to Yugoslavia, what Hitler was to Germany.


The bishops and archbishops of Croatia gave full support to the Ustashi. Here, the Croatian bishops and archbishops are seen pictured with Ante Pavelic during one of their frequent conferences with him.


Nuns marching together with Croatian Nazi-legionnaires (Ustashi).


Pavelic among Croatian nuns. They were decorated (see decoration on chest) by Pavelic for their "heroic" Ustashi deeds.


An Ustashi, with a sadistic smile on his face, chopping off a man's head with an ax.


This photograph of Ustashi taken in Bosnia in 1943 before they executed their victim.

"Mass murders were supplemented by the massacre of individuals, mostly in rural districts. The Ustachi very often used the most primitive weapons, such as forks, spades, hammers and saws, to torture their victims prior to their execution. They broke their legs, pulled off their skin and beards, blinded them by cutting their eyes with knives and even tearing them from their sockets." This information is documented by pictures and by the sworn testimony of survivors.

"They did not spare women or children. To quote only one instance: 'In the villages between Vlasenica and Kladani the Nazi occupational troops discovered children who had been impaled upon stakes by the Ustachi, their little members distorted with pain.' Catholic priests advocated the killing of children.


A priest named Ivan Raguz, repeatedly urged the killing of all Serbs, including children so that "not even the seeds of the beasts are left."

A Catholic priest named Juric said, "Today it is no longer a sin to kill a child of seven, should such a child be opposed to our movement of the Ustachi.'"

"The worst atrocities, strange as it may seem, were carried out by members of the intelligentsia. The case of Peter Brzica is undoubtedly one of the most incredible in this category. Peter Brzica had attended the Franciscan College at Siroki, Brijeg, in Herzegovina, was a law student, and a member of the Catholic organization of Crusaders. In the concentration camp at Jasenovac, on the night of August 29,1942, orders were issued for executions. Bets were made as to who could liquidate the largest number of inmates. Peter Brzica cut the throats of 1,360 prisoners with a specially sharp butcher's knife. Having been proclaimed the prize-winner of the competition, he was elected King of the Cut-throats. A gold watch, a silver service and a roasted suckling pig and wine were his rewards."

The Franciscan monk, Miroslav Filipovic, left, as a priest; wearing his cassock, right, in Ustashi uniform. Filipovic was the commandant of the concentration camp at Jasenovac.

Jasenovac concentration camp distinguished itself because of the number of young inmates sent there. In 1942 the camp held over 24,000 Orthodox youngsters. Twelve thousand of them were murdered in cold blood.

Corpses of children starved to death in the concentration camp at Jasenovac.

Ustashi carrying the head of a Serbian Orthodox priest.

At Dubrovinick, Dalmatia, fascist soldiers had photographs of an Ustashi wearing two necklaces. One was a string of cut-out eyes, the other of torn out tongues of murdered Orthodox Serbs.

The atrocities of the Ustachi far surpassed mere physical torture. Their victims were tormented emotionally as well. An example of the unprecedented brutality is recorded by the sworn testimony of several witnesses regarding the following incident.

At Nevesinje, the Ustachi arrested one whole Serbian family consisting of father, mother and four children. The mother and children were separated from the father. For seven days they were tortured by starvation and thirst. Then they brought the mother and children a good-sized roast, and plenty of water to drink. These unfortunates were so hungry that they ate the entire roast. After they finished, the Ustachi told them that they had eaten the flesh of their father.

This happened in our generation, beloved. This is an example of the unleashed rage of the Vatican. I once read that, "Rome when in minority is as gentle as a lamb, when in equality is as clever as a fox, and when in the majority is as fierce as a tiger." I believe that this is an accurate description.


http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_03b.asp

I am sorry Drakul, but these camps were built by almost every european country at that time, you are falling for the western propaganda.
The brits actually invented concentration camps during the 2. Boer War.

Also nobody talks these days about polish built and run camps in the 20ies, were they did murder germans and russians.
The polish camps were one of the reasons for germany to finally invade Poland. The polish committed many atrocities in the years before the war broke out, the aftermath of Versailles Treaty.


You can't exclusively blame the germans for the madness on the Balkans. War will be always bloody and sad war, where life is nonsensically lost.

Avro Manhattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hoaxes R us, me thinks by a jewish vatican hater.

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 02:35 PM
Drakul plenty of Catholics were murdered and also sent to the Gulags along with Orthodox Christians.

There were more Protestants in Germany at the time of the Nazis than Catholics.

Some Catholics opposed the Nazis, Germany wasn't one homogenous like minded group, there was plots to kill Hitler, same as Communists had their disputes amongst themselves.


The chapter on the Ukrainian liquidation of believers makes for very difficult reading. Imagine this: the Ukrainian Catholic Church had 2,772 parishes, 8 bishops, 4,119 churches and chapels, 142 monasteries and convents, 2,628 priests, 164 monks, 773 nuns, and 4 million laypeople. By the end of the largest suppression of believers in world history, the entire apparatus was reduced to: zero.






Look at the sweep of the century and you see that Christians, particularly Catholics, have in fact been the main victims of state violence in our century. For full documentation of these claims, I commend to you Robert Royal's remarkable new book, The Catholic Martyrs of the Twentieth Century: A Comprehensive World History (New York: Crossroad Publishing, 2000).

[URL]http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/martyrs.html (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0824518462/lewrockwell/)


See Communism was the REAL enemy of most Europeans not the Nazis. Because of communist atrocities committed well before the war and during many Europeans seen Hitler as the answer to defeating Communism (Jew created and led)

Some Christians and Nazis knew about the Talmud and supremacist Jews and the Protocols of Zion and the Gulag death camps knowing they would be next if they didn't put up a fight)

So anyone taking sides with the Nazis had good reason too (Christians of various sects and all manner of races colours and creeds fought with the Nazis, including some Muslims)

Compare the atrocities committed by Communists and Nazi. No competition who killed 10 and 10s of millions more? Communists

drakul
27-10-2010, 03:00 PM
Drakul plenty of Catholics were murdered and also sent to the Gulags along with Orthodox Christians.

There were more Protestants in Germany at the time of the Nazis than Catholics.

Some Catholics opposed the Nazis, Germany wasn't one homogenous like minded group, there was plots to kill Hitler, same as Communists had their disputes amongst themselves.


The chapter on the Ukrainian liquidation of believers makes for very difficult reading. Imagine this: the Ukrainian Catholic Church had 2,772 parishes, 8 bishops, 4,119 churches and chapels, 142 monasteries and convents, 2,628 priests, 164 monks, 773 nuns, and 4 million laypeople. By the end of the largest suppression of believers in world history, the entire apparatus was reduced to: zero.






Look at the sweep of the century and you see that Christians, particularly Catholics, have in fact been the main victims of state violence in our century. For full documentation of these claims, I commend to you Robert Royal's remarkable new book, The Catholic Martyrs of the Twentieth Century: A Comprehensive World History (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0824518462/lewrockwell/) (New York: Crossroad Publishing, 2000).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/martyrs.html


See Communism was the REAL enemy of most Europeans not the Nazis. Because of communist atrocities committed well before the war and during many Europeans seen Hitler as the answer to defeating Communism (Jew created and led)

Some Christians and Nazis knew about the Talmud and supremacist Jews and the Protocols of Zion and the Gulag death camps knowing they would be next if they didn't put up a fight)

So anyone taking sides with the Nazis had good reason too (Christians of various sects and all manner of races colours and creeds fought with the Nazis, including some Muslims)

Compare the atrocities committed by Communists and Nazi. No competition who killed 10 and 10s of millions more? Communists

ES - look at the numbers - How many Russians were killed in WWII? 20 million. These were orthodox Christians.

Why did Hitler make the Germany Army COMMIT SUICIDE by invading Russia? Then refusing to let the army retreat? Why?

The Third Reich might still be in power today if Hitler had not invaded Russia. Hitler was controlled by the VATICAN.

Look at the Prophecy of Fatima - it predicts World War if `Russia does not convert'. Convert from WHAT? This was before WWI. Russia was at that time the most religious Christian country on earth. It was the THIRD ROME. The Vatican has been trying for 1,000 years to destroy/assimilate Orthodox Christianity.

You wa-aay underestimate the power of the Vatican, the richest entity on earth. Orthodox Slavic East Europeans know the history that your books slide over, obfuscate and distort and IGNORE. Orthodox Slavs experienced it first hand.

Jascenovac - cruelest death camp of all time -

Jasenovac - The cruelest death camp of all times, part 1/6 - YouTube

Jasenovac - The cruelest death camp of all times, part 1/6 - YouTube

Nazis even had a special knife known as a `Serbcutter' to make it easier to cut throats in the camp. Made in Germany.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1961984528319702631#

Jasenovac - The cruelest death camp of all times, part 1/6 - YouTube

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1961984528319702631#docid=-2795400183464349503

eternal_spirit
27-10-2010, 03:57 PM
ES - look at the numbers - How many Russians were killed in WWII? 20 million. These were orthodox Christians.

And how many millions of Catholics died during the war? Maybe more than Orthodox Christians.


Wasn't what happened in Yugoslavia something to do with them siding with Communists? such as Tito, and whatever else went on before he ran things. If not then yes it was totaly awful what happened.

Look at this for disinformation a photo shopped pic of Ratzinger. Which is posted constantly to try link Nazism and Catholocism.


http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ratzingernaziyouthsalutinghitler.jpg (http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ratzingernaziyouthsalutinghitler.jpg)
The interesting thing is that Joseph Ratzinger is shown in priestly vestments. In fact, without the caption you might think he was doing anything from consecrating the Body and Blood to blessing the congregation. But, no, this website assures us he is saluting Hitler.
There’s only one tiny problem. Ratzinger was ordained in June of 1951. That is a full six years after the death of Hitler.
I guess there’s no limit to the depth some people will go to villify the Church.
Update:

Here is the whole picture. It is more likely that the Ratzinger brothers are about start a sychronised dive than that they are saluting a long-dead German dictator.

Ratzinger Brothers Ordination
http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ratzinger_bros_orindation.jpg?w=340&h=459

http://solomonhezekiah.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/misrepresenting-the-truth-to-defame-the-church/
Why did Hitler make the Germany Army COMMIT SUICIDE by invading Russia? Then refusing to let the army retreat? Why? I don't know sure someone else has a theory. Guess you're suggesting Hitler was a stooge. I doubt either can be proved 100% either being he was genuinely fighting for the German people.

The Third Reich might still be in power today if Hitler had not invaded Russia. Hitler was controlled by the VATICAN.
Have you seen what Hitler said about Christianity? He wasn't a great fan. He was opposed to Roman law (Vatican) it's in the Nazi manifesto, he wanted Vatican influence abolished from Germany.
Look at the Prophecy of Fatima - it predicts World War if `Russia does not convert'. Convert from WHAT? This was before WWI. Russia was at that time the most religious Christian country on earth. It was the THIRD ROME. I think you're grasping at straws relying on prophecy.


Why bring all this up when the thread is about Gulags/Communism? Wouldn't it be better to post this elsewhere?:D we'll be here for ever going round in circles lol.

Also we've been through this debate several times, including the other debate Catholics (Brits/Germans/Italians/French/Spanish etc) fighting off Muslims for centuries to stop all Europe and the Uk becoming Islamised, even then you brought up the Orthodox issues and accused the Catholics even though alliances were made to fight Islam between the Orthodox other Christians and Catholics.


Don't you think some Catholics and Orthodox were allied to fight Communism too. They both got sent to the Gulags by the Commies.


Alliances change, Nazis sided with Muslims, Communist sides with the US UK etc then became the enemy. Even had Jewish Nazis, and Jews who opposed Communism.

Point is - World war 2 look who sided with who it's hodge podge of alliances some change sides during wars, can you imagine the paranoia and thirst for revenge.

tinyint
27-10-2010, 04:27 PM
And how many millions of Catholics died during the war? Maybe more than Orthodox Christians.
[QUOTE]

Yep, I also don't think this was a religious thingy.

Goebbels on bolshevism1943
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSEfkIaT1s&NR=1

This belief was widely shared within the population, no matter of catholoic and protestant.
I think, Germany learned important lessons from the 30 years war, concerning sectarian conflicts.

[QUOTE=eternal_spirit;1059363321]
I don't know sure someone else has a theory. Guess you're suggesting Hitler was a stooge. I doubt either can be proved 100% either being he was genuinely fighting for the German people.



My theory, Dr Morell.

I wished you guys could read german.
There is tons of suppressed material and tons of very actual good writings about all this in the context of what happens behind the scenes, eg Katyn 2.0, Polish concentration camps, the disclosure threats between US and Russia and so on...

We will witness interesting times.

drakul
27-10-2010, 04:38 PM
Eternal Spirit - Why bring all this up when the thread is about Gulags/Communism? Wouldn't it be better to post this elsewhere? we'll be here for ever going round in circles lol.

You said Hitler was a reaction/resistance against Communism - therefore the Nazis were trying to act as the good guys, saving the world from Communism. My point is right on target. In just 4 years Hitler managed to kill 50 million people. 50 million in 4 years.

Hitler was not about saving the world from Communism, that was his front. Problem, Reaction - Solution. Remember Hitler's `NEW (World) ORDER' in Mein Kampf? Hitler called the Slavs the UNTERMENSCHEN - the `Lower Men' -the `SLAVE RACE'. Germans were the Ubermenschen.

It was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples (see New Order).

Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furthermore a big reason the Nazis invaded Russia was to steal their raw materials and land (Lebensraum). Hitler made no bones about this. He talked about it from 1925 on in Mein Kampf calling it Germany's `Turn to the East'.

I am strictly anti-communist. The Soviet Gulags were terrible. But please don't try to ignore history and make the Nazis into the good guys because they invaded Russia. Comparatively speaking, the Germans killed far more people - 50 million, in just 4 years, than the Soviets did in 80 years.

tinyint
27-10-2010, 04:45 PM
You said Hitler was a reaction/resistance against Communism - therefore the Nazis were trying to act as the good guys, saving the world from Communism. My point is right on target. In just 4 years Hitler managed to kill 50 million people. 50 million in 4 years.

Remember Hitler's `NEW (World) ORDER'? Hitler called the Slavs the UNTERMENSCHEN - the `Lower Men' -the `SLAVE RACE'. Germans were the Ubermenschen.

It was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples (see New Order).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

Furthermore a big reason the Nazis invaded Russia was to steal their raw materials and land (Lebensraum). Hitler made no bones about this. He talked about it from 1925 on in Mein Kampf calling it Germany's `Turn to the East'.


I am a strict anti-communist. But please don't try to ignore history and make the Nazis into the good guys because they invaded Russia.

Only one name:

Ilya Ehrenburg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In "Kill", Ehrenburg wrote:

"Here are excerpts from three letters found on dead Germans. Inspector Reinhardt wrote to Lieutenant Otto Schirach:[2] "[...] I have found six Russians in the area. They last far longer than Frenchmen. Only one of them has died. [...] Their upkeep costs nothing and we must not tolerate that these animals, whose children are possibly killing our children right now, get to eat German bread. Yesterday I whipped lightly two Russian beasts who secretly drunk up skim milk meant for pigs [...]" A certain Otto Essmann wrote to Lieutenant Helmut Wiegand: "We now have some Russian prisoners of war. These fellows feed on worms by the airstrip and throw themselves at buckets of dirty water. I have seen them eating weeds. It is hard to believe that these are human beings..." Slavers - they would like to enslave our people. They take some Russians home, mistreat them, make them lose their wits by hunger, to the point that they eat grass and worms, and then a repulsive German with a stinking cigar can philosophise: "Are these perhaps human beings?" We know everything. We remember everything. We have understood: Germans are not human beings. Henceforth the word German means to us the most terrible curse. From now on the word German will trigger your rifle. We shall not speak any more. We shall not get excited. We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day. If you think that that instead of you, the man next to you will kill him, you have not understood the threat. If you do not kill the German, he will kill you. If you cannot kill your German with a bullet, kill him with your bayonet. If there is calm on your part of the front, if you are waiting for the fighting, kill a German before combat. If you leave a German alive, the German will hang a Russian and rape a Russian woman. If you kill one German, kill another - there is nothing more amusing for us than a heap of German corpses. Do not count days; do not count miles. Count only the number of Germans you have killed. Kill the German - this is your old mother's prayer. Kill the German - this is what your children beseech you to do. Kill the German - this is the cry of your Russian earth. Do not waver. Do not let up. Kill."[3][4]


Don't you think the germans were not informed?

This was also a german war, not only nazi's war.

I am sick of dogma and propaganda.

Here is another small clue, as far as wiki is able to tell the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-German_sentiment

drakul
27-10-2010, 05:21 PM
Only one name:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ehrenburg

Don't you think the germans were not informed?

This was also a german war, not only nazi's war.

I am sick of dogma and propaganda.

Here is another small clue, as far as wiki is able to tell the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-German_sentiment

My friend Tinyint - I am not sure what you mean here - `it was a German war not only a Nazi's war' :confused:

Your sourcing the `kill Germans' letter from Ehrenberg - It was the Germans who INVADED RUSSIA. Sure there was anti-German sentiment in Russia - millions of Russians were dying. What do you expect?

tinyint
27-10-2010, 05:27 PM
My friend Tinyint - I am not sure what you mean here - `it was a German war not only a Nazi's war' :confused:

Your sourcing the `kill Germans' letter from Ehrenberg - It was the Germans who INVADED RUSSIA. Sure there was anti-German sentiment in Russia - millions of Russians were dying. What do you expect?

I don't know what you expect on a thread on gulags and boshevist murder horde sent by Wall Street as a plague for europe.

I'd like to see it as a german war as well, since its was indeed also for the survival of germany and its culture.

Please delete everything they have "educated" you with and start from the beginning again on your own.I know its difficult, for me as well, but history must be evaluated by reason, not by emotion or guilt.

The nazis were last but not least just the german govt, which attacked the SU preemtively, since Stalin indeed had plans to invade europe. It was a matter of time.
Slightly different form the threat potential to modern preemptive wars.

luciferhorus
27-10-2010, 05:40 PM
Many atrocities have been committed "in the name of Communism," just as many atrocities have been commited in the name of Capitalism, and continue to be commited. However you will find very few ideological Communists in the world today who are Stalinsts, most are either Marxists, Trotskyists or Anarchists and all are by default anti-Stalinists.

If Capitalism is so wonmderful, might I suggest that the ideological defenders of the Dictatorship of Capitalism here emigrate to the Congo or sell their children into sex slavery in some Thai or Cambodian brothel. It seems that the defenders of the Dictatorship of Capitalism have no problem with ideologically justifying the Capitalist genocide of humankind which inflicts humanity with a yearly death toll of the victims of poverty (the lack of Capital to buy food, as opposed to the lack of food which is generally exported from the poorest nations to the richest nations, where there is no shortage of Capital) in excess of the death toll of WW2.

Lux

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fiWJRneh4X4/ScwvZ8Qj4MI/AAAAAAAACRw/B0C8IxykCl8/s400/enjoy_capitalism.jpg
http://mises.org/images4/PyramidCapitalism.gif

ladybird
27-10-2010, 06:02 PM
Good thread ES. People should know the truth no matter how unpleasant it is.
Let's see how they try to deny what is in this thread..



Agree.



Trevor Phillips will surely be delighted if he learned that the Wehrmacht was a diverse and vibrant example of multiculturalism in action.

I have also heard that there was a Persian regiment that fought to the very end in the Battle of Berlin.



TIBET CONNECTION


The Tibetan monks/adepts of Agarthi in Germany were known as the Society of Green Men. It's foremost adept was known as the Monk of the Green Gloves/Hands [2], who was renowned for his clairvoyant abilities and had mastered prophecy. Hitler had audiences with him.

The Society of the Green Men were apparently in astral contact with the Green Dragon Society, and had been for several centuries. The Green Dragon Society sent seven members to aid the Society of Green Men in Germany. The Green Men were to help further the Nazi cause and the projected mutation that would turn the Aryans into God-Men. The activities of the Green Men were under heavy Nazi security.

The Green Men fell out of favour in 1943/44. This may have due to the failure of the Tibetans to alter the course of the war, or it may have due to the involvement of Haushofer's son in the 1944 assassination attempt on Hitler. Some sources say that they were put on concentration camp rations. It is reported that when the Russians entered Berlin in 1945 they came across numerous bodies of Tibetans. They had all committed suicide by a knife stroke to the stomach. Some sources say the monks were in German uniform without insignia, other sources say they were naked. Because of his failure, Haushofer killed his wife and then committed seppuku himself at the end of the war, as would be expected by the Green Dragon Society.

The last remnants of the Society of the Green Men were eliminated in 1959 by the Communists after the Chinese annexation of Tibet in 1950.

drakul
27-10-2010, 08:39 PM
I don't know what you expect on a thread on gulags and boshevist murder horde sent by Wall Street as a plague for europe.

I'd like to see it as a german war as well, since its was indeed also for the survival of germany and its culture.


And not at all to steal the resources and land of Russia/Slavic peoples? Russia being the largest treasure trove of natural resources in the world - @! producer of GOLD, DIAMONDS, OIL, GAS, TIMBER, RARE MINERALS - all important for the 3rd Reich's dominance of the world.

And you do not address what Hitler himself said that Slavs are the UNTERMENSCHEN, the SLAVE RACE to be used and discarded or genocided? That Germans are the Ubermenschen - their racial superiors. Come on...


Please delete everything they have "educated" you with and start from the beginning again on your own.I know its difficult, for me as well, but history must be evaluated by reason, not by emotion or guilt.


It sounds like you are the one moved by `emotion or guilt'. I am presenting you with facts and you are not addressing them at all. This is not like you Tinyint. Normally you are rational and thoughtful. Now it seems like you are just claiming the high ground without providing any rational justification at all.

The nazis were last but not least just the german govt, which attacked the SU preemtively, since Stalin indeed had plans to invade europe. It was a matter of time.
Slightly different form the threat potential to modern preemptive wars.

And you believe that? Why was this lame exscuse for invading Russia, causing the death of twenty million Russians and 4 million German soldiers any different from `modern pre-emptive wars'? Sounds like the same PRS except in this case Hitler was determined to destroy his own army and thus any chance of winning WWII. Strange. Very Strange.

tinyint
27-10-2010, 09:17 PM
And not at all to steal the resources and land of Russia/Slavic peoples? Russia being the largest treasure trove of natural resources in the world - @! producer of GOLD, DIAMONDS, OIL, GAS, TIMBER, RARE MINERALS - all important for the 3rd Reich's dominance of the world.


Look, this is not about guilt/racism, I am sick of this guilt/racism thing. It poisons the discussion and will lead to nowhere.
As I said, I think you are emotionally too attached to discuss rationally.
I have shown similar racist soviet propaganda. Whats the point in banging on it?
Both sides have fought a very cruel hard war.
There is no good and evil in this.
It was an overall evil bankster madness.

Do you think germany started the war?

Let me post the declarations of war timeline:

1939 September 1 Germany invades Poland.

ES already posted several timesquite extensively about the reasons.

September 3 Great Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany Egypt breaks diplomatic relations with Germany.

September 6 The Union of South Africa declares war on Germany.
September 10 Canada declares war on Germany.
September 17 The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics invades Poland.
November 30 The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics invades Finland.
March 12 Finland signs peace treaty with Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
April 8 Germany invades Denmark and Norway.

http://worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html

You start to get why Germany invaded Scandinavia? Finland is the northern entry to europe.

It was like the board game risk.

No mention of Versailles?
Try to understand the other side, and that all waring parties had been financed by Wall Street.

Rationally, Germany was trapped and lured into another war by UK. I was a set up plan, and as Hitler said, they left Germany no choice.
Do you really think Germany wanted a 2 front war?

The key player for all this madness has been Wall Street banksters.


And you do not address what Hitler himself said that Slavs are the UNTERMENSCHEN, the SLAVE RACE to be used and discarded or genocided? That Germans are the Ubermenschen - their racial superiors. Come on...


I know they were no big fan of slavs, but what has that to do with gulags and the red murder horde?
I can only say for myself, I have met many slavs in my life, all highly educated people it was a pleasure to have met. I give a shit about such things. Racism was common in europe in that time. Germany no exception.
My grandpa and the elders didn't fight the soviets because the were russian, but they were infected by evil nasty bolshevism the wall street banksters sent europe as a plague.


It sounds like you are the one moved by `emotion or guilt'. I am presenting you with facts and you are not addressing them at all. This is not like you Tinyint. Normally you are rational and thoughtful. Now it seems like you are just claiming the high ground without providing any rational justification at all.


What do you want me to address exactly?
I think I answered above.


And you believe that? Why was this lame exscuse for invading Russia, causing the death of twenty million Russians and 4 million German soldiers any different from `modern pre-emptive wars'? Sounds like the same PRS except in this case Hitler was determined to destroy his own army and thus any chance of winning WWII. Strange. Very Strange.

It was in that far different in that the Soviets were a big armed ground force. A sleeping giant ready to attack, not some disarmed Iraq against a giant. The completely opposite.
I guess you know about the arms limitation due to Versailles.

Anyway, the Wehrmacht was a high tech army, the best at that time, who inflicted massive damage on the eastern front. Mainly due to nowadays inconvient truth about secret weapons, such as fuel air artillery bomblets. It literally pulverized whole soviet divisions so that they threatened to use chemical weapons.
Its true the Wehrmacht deployed these weapons only on the eastern front, since the bolshviks were consider the main threat to europe, and as an arm of international jewry and banksters.

Madness...

What I wanted to say, if there hadn't been Hitler and the nazis, then there would have been a different man and a different group in Germany with the same aims.

I'll post a Reichstags Speech of Hitler from 1939, if you are interested.

I don't know if it was on this thread I said it, but the whole eastern front deserves a separate thread, since there is so much to say about the things in the backgrounds going on in Germany, I don't think relevant for the gulag topic however.

drakul
27-10-2010, 10:24 PM
Look, this is not about guilt/racism, I am sick of this guilt/racism thing. It poisons the discussion and will lead to nowhere.
As I said, I think you are emotionally too attached to discuss rationally.
I have shown similar racist soviet propaganda. Whats the point in banging on it?
Both sides have fought a very cruel hard war.
There is no good and evil in this.
It was an overall evil bankster madness.

Do you think germany started the war?


My friend Tinyint - If you read my post you will see I did not say that Germany started WWII. I said it was Germany that INVADED RUSSIA. Not the other way around. Germany also invaded a helluvalotta other countries too causing great devastation and casualties.

Germany bombed and invaded Yugoslavia on April 6, Easter Sunday, 1941 termed by Hitler `Operation Punishment'. 17,000 people died that day in Belgrade. Why were the Serbs punished? Because they refused to sign Hitler's Tri-Partite Pact. For this sin Hitler destroyed Yugoslavia as a nation.

Isn't it interesting how USUK/NATO has done the exact same thing that Hitler did in former Yugo?!! Hitler gave Croatia to the (Vatican) Catholic `Croatians', Bosnia to the Muslims and Kosovo to the Muslim Albanians. Who were the first political entities to recognize the breakaway republic of Croatia of Yugoslavia in the 1990's? - The Vatican and Germany. What a co-incidence! You see how history repeats itself? Nothing changes except the names. The agenda remains the same - in this case to destroy, weaken and conquer the Slavs. The battle has been going on since the Roman empire and it's still happening, all over Eastern Europe, the Caucases and the `Stahns'. It is we who have been blinded to it, purposely.

You have heard of Z Brezinsky's `Iron Ring around Russia' - This is NATO today!

"Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland (Russia). Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island. Who rules the World-Island commands the World." - Mackinder's Theory.


Let me post the declarations of war timeline:

1939 September 1 Germany invades Poland.

ES already posted several timesquite extensively about the reasons.

September 3 Great Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany Egypt breaks diplomatic relations with Germany.

September 6 The Union of South Africa declares war on Germany.
September 10 Canada declares war on Germany.
September 17 The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics invades Poland.
November 30 The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics invades Finland.
March 12 Finland signs peace treaty with Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
April 8 Germany invades Denmark and Norway.

http://worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html

You start to get why Germany invaded Scandinavia? Finland is the northern entry to europe.

It was like the board game risk.

No mention of Versailles?
Try to understand the other side, and that all waring parties had been financed by Wall Street.

Rationally, Germany was trapped and lured into another war by UK. I was a set up plan, and as Hitler said, they left Germany no choice.
Do you really think Germany wanted a 2 front war?

That's the big question isn't it? Why did Hitler force Germany to commit suicide? Hitler's top generals were against Operation Barbarossa. They knew it was suicide.

Here is a paragraph from Hitler's Mein Kampf (1925) showing his determination to take Russia to provide `Lebensraum' for the German people. I mean it was no secret. Hitler made no bones about his intentions and attitude and intention toward Russia and the Slavs 15 years before the war:

And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long last we break fof the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil policy of the future.

If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. Here Fate itself seems desirous of giving us a sign. By handing Russia to Bolshevism, it robbed the Russian nation of that intelligentsia which previously brought about and guaranteed its existence as a state. For the organization of a Russian state formation was not the result of the political abilities of the Slavs in Russia, but only a wonderful example of the state-forming efficacity of the German element in an inferior race. Numerous mighty empires on earth have been created in this way. Lower nations led by Germanic organizers and overlords have more than once grown to be mighty state formations and have endured as long as the racial nucleus of the creative state race maintained itself. For centuries Russia drew nourishment from this Germanic nucleus of its upper leading strata.

Today it can be regarded as almost totally exterminated and extinguished. It has been replaced by the Jew. Impossible as it is for the Russian by himself to shake off the yoke of the Jew by his own resources, it is equally impossible for the Jew to maintain the mighty empire forever. He himself is no element of organization, but a ferment of decomposition. The Persian I empire in the east is ripe for collapse. And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state. We have been chosen by Fate as witnesses of a catastrophe which will be the mightiest confirmation of the soundness of the folkish theory.
Our task, the mission of the National Socialist movement, is to bring our own people to such political insight that they will not see their goal for the future in the breath-taking sensation of a new Alexander's conquest, but in the industrious work of the German plow, to which the sword need only give soil.

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch14.html

IOW we National Socialists will TAKE Russian land and resources from the inferior Slavs by virtue of the `SWORD'.

The key player for all this madness has been Wall Street banksters.

So - what do you say to the oft-repeated claim that Hitler was in fact a ROTHSCHILD? It makes sense when you consider the suicide mission he insisted the German army make into Russia. The fact that he refused to allow them to retreat. 4.3 million men, the flower of German youth SACRIFICED. To what cause? To what God?

I know they were no big fan of slavs, but what has that to do with gulags and the red murder horde?
I can only say for myself, I have met many slavs in my life, all highly educated people it was a pleasure to have met. I give a shit about such things. Racism was common in europe in that time. Germany no exception.
My grandpa and the elders didn't fight the soviets because the were russian, but they were infected by evil nasty bolshevism the wall street banksters sent europe as a plague.


Classic Problem - Reaction - Solution

Hitler - I've got the answer to stop those Commies- you German schmucks go into Russia and commit suicide! (Heh)

What do you want me to address exactly?
I think I answered above.


It's a start. :)

It was in that far different in that the Soviets were a big armed ground force. A sleeping giant ready to attack, not some disarmed Iraq against a giant. The completely opposite.
I guess you know about the arms limitation due to Versailles.

Hitler re-armed anyway. And was well funded by the banksters to do it while the `Allies' turned a blind eye...

Anyway, the Wehrmacht was a high tech army, the best at that time, who inflicted massive damage on the eastern front. Mainly due to nowadays inconvient truth about secret weapons, such as fuel air artillery bomblets. It literally pulverized whole soviet divisions so that they threatened to use chemical weapons.
Its true the Wehrmacht deployed these weapons only on the eastern front, since the bolshviks were consider the main threat to europe, and as an arm of international jewry and banksters.

Madness...

Yes it was madness, run by a madman who was a puppet. Look at the outcome - Cui Bono - Who Benefited?

So the `arms limitation' of the Treaty of Versailles was not enforced.

What I wanted to say, if there hadn't been Hitler and the nazis, then there would have been a different man and a different group in Germany with the same aims.

I'll post a Reichstags Speech of Hitler from 1939, if you are interested.

Sure I am always interested. I read all your posts. :)

I don't know if it was on this thread I said it, but the whole eastern front deserves a separate thread, since there is so much to say about the things in the backgrounds going on in Germany, I don't think relevant for the gulag topic however.

Sure a separate thread on this specific topic would be interesting. However it IS very relevant on this thread to point out the DIS-information involved when posters persist in claiming that the Nazis were actually the good guys of WWII because they invaded the Soviet Union/Russia, causing the deaths of 24 million people. The Germans set up just as many death camps as the Soviets and they killed a helluvalot more people in just 4 years.

tinyint
27-10-2010, 10:38 PM
My friend Tinyint - If you read my post you will see I did not say that Germany started WWII. I said it was Germany that INVADED RUSSIA. Not the other way around. Germany also invaded a helluvalotta other countries too causing great devastation and casualties.

Germany bombed and invaded Yugoslavia on April 6, Easter Sunday, 1941 termed by Hitler `Operation Punishment'. 17,000 people died that day in Belgrade. Why were the Serbs punished? Because they refused to sign Hitler's Tri-Partite Pact. For this sin Hitler destroyed Yugoslavia as a nation.

Isn't it interesting how USUK/NATO has done the exact same thing that Hitler did in former Yugo?!! Hitler gave Croatia to the (Vatican) Catholic `Croatians', Bosnia to the Muslims and Kosovo to the Muslim Albanians. Who were the first political entities to recognize the breakaway republic of Croatia of Yugoslavia in the 1990's? - The Vatican and Germany. What a co-incidence! You see how history repeats itself? Nothing changes except the names. The agenda remains the same - Destroy, weaken the Slavs. The battle has been going on since the Roman empire. We just don't see it.





That's the big question isn't it? Why did Hitler force Germany to commit suicide? Hitler's top generals were against Operation Barbarossa. They knew it was suicide.

Here is a paragraph from Hitler's Mein Kampf (1925) showing his determination to take Russia to provide `Lebensraum' for the German people. I mean it was no secret. Hitler made no bones about his intentions and attitude and intention toward Russia and the Slavs 15 years before the war:

And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long last we break fof the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil policy of the future.

If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states. Here Fate itself seems desirous of giving us a sign. By handing Russia to Bolshevism, it robbed the Russian nation of that intelligentsia which previously brought about and guaranteed its existence as a state. For the organization of a Russian state formation was not the result of the political abilities of the Slavs in Russia, but only a wonderful example of the state-forming efficacity of the German element in an inferior race. Numerous mighty empires on earth have been created in this way. Lower nations led by Germanic organizers and overlords have more than once grown to be mighty state formations and have endured as long as the racial nucleus of the creative state race maintained itself. For centuries Russia drew nourishment from this Germanic nucleus of its upper leading strata.

Today it can be regarded as almost totally exterminated and extinguished. It has been replaced by the Jew. Impossible as it is for the Russian by himself to shake off the yoke of the Jew by his own resources, it is equally impossible for the Jew to maintain the mighty empire forever. He himself is no element of organization, but a ferment of decomposition. The Persian I empire in the east is ripe for collapse. And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state. We have been chosen by Fate as witnesses of a catastrophe which will be the mightiest confirmation of the soundness of the folkish theory.
Our task, the mission of the National Socialist movement, is to bring our own people to such political insight that they will not see their goal for the future in the breath-taking sensation of a new Alexander's conquest, but in the industrious work of the German plow, to which the sword need only give soil.
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch14.html



So - what do you say to the oft-repeated claim that Hitler was in fact a ROTHSCHILD? It makes sense when you consider the suicide mission he insisted the German army make into Russia. The fact that he refused to allow them to retreat. 4.3 million men, the flower of German youth SACRIFICED. To what cause? To what God?



PRS



It's a start. :)



Hitler re-armed anyway. And were well funded by the banksters to do it while the `Allies' turned a blind eye...



Yes it was madness, run by a madman who was a puppet for the banksters. Look at the outcome - Cui Bono - Who Benefited?

So the `arms limitation' of the Treaty of Versailles was not enforced.



Sure I am always interested :)



Sure a separate thread on this specific topic would be interesting. However it is very relevant to point out the propaganda and DIS-information involved when posters persist in claiming that the Nazis were actually the good guys of WWII because they invaded the Soviet Union/Russia, causing the deaths of 24 million people. The Germans set up just as many death camps as the Soviets and they killed a helluvalot more people in just 4 years.


My dear friend Drakul, you cant be serious. I cant believe no word on Stalin and the red horde, the topic of this thread.

You still go for blame the germans, I cannot agree with.

I also don't agree on the Rothschild claims. All we have is a anglo-saxon news report about some mysterious, I tend to say BS, DNA test of some mysterious nephew.
Thin air, if you ask me.

And no, it doesn't make sense at all. There are so many contradictions concerning what went on domestically in the 3rd Reich, which clearly draw some different picture. Hitler serves as a smokescreen, to direct attention away from other things.

Actually we are derailing this thread.

Answer again to the suicide question, my thesis Dr Morrell.
Actually the suicide was Stalingrad instead of reaching Moskow before the Winter, against all his generals advice 'he' commanded stalingrad.

entrangermercenary
27-10-2010, 10:39 PM
We know Communists where sending many people/races/religions to the Gulags. And invading countries and slaughtering many.

Hence the varied oppostion they encountred examples of the diversity of Nazi soldiers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHkWs8iI/AAAAAAAAHIc/g1KECQDbCds/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-turkmenistanis.jpg

Turkish
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHXCkb3I/AAAAAAAAHIU/x5kWio882SY/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-koreans.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEHXCkb3I/AAAAAAAAHIU/x5kWio882SY/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-koreans.jpg)
Koreans

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEG6ovrWI/AAAAAAAAHIM/jzUqRKPcsB4/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-jews.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOEG6ovrWI/AAAAAAAAHIM/jzUqRKPcsB4/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-jews.jpg)
Jews. Mostly as guards of concentration camps. Jews of course were not foreigners. They were as German as anyone else.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7xTMUxI/AAAAAAAAHIE/QAEMcSDXc3Q/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese-fighters.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7xTMUxI/AAAAAAAAHIE/QAEMcSDXc3Q/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese-fighters.jpg)Japanese

What were the Japs doing here? They could have well served in their nation's army. Some kind of exchange? Or were there Japanese people in Germany in large numbers?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7DKbMbI/AAAAAAAAHH8/XO_kMhRPXq0/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD7DKbMbI/AAAAAAAAHH8/XO_kMhRPXq0/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-japanese.jpg)This Japanese is an officer in the German army

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6wk1kTI/AAAAAAAAHH0/zNWraPIQ6c4/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-indian.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6wk1kTI/AAAAAAAAHH0/zNWraPIQ6c4/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-indian.jpg)Indians. Efforts of Subhash Chandra Bose.

Bose was anti-British. He met Hitler in Berlin and raised the Indian unit in the Wehrmacht. Enemy's enemy is a friend, I guess.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6gxgwqI/AAAAAAAAHHs/VixK1i6Ro78/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-georgians-azerbaijan.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6gxgwqI/AAAAAAAAHHs/VixK1i6Ro78/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-georgians-azerbaijan.jpg)Georgians and Azerbaijanis

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6SkHfxI/AAAAAAAAHHk/UxQ2_WZZrns/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-chechens.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxOD6SkHfxI/AAAAAAAAHHk/UxQ2_WZZrns/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-chechens.jpg)
Chechen

One can understand the Chechen in the German army. Their struggle against Russia continues till this day.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODreUlHmI/AAAAAAAAHHc/DmmE1YlrIng/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian-muslims.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODreUlHmI/AAAAAAAAHHc/DmmE1YlrIng/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian-muslims.jpg)
Bosnian Muslims

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODrKcJ1gI/AAAAAAAAHHU/bey82KaSBNE/s400/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YYMeAu4i7gA/SxODrKcJ1gI/AAAAAAAAHHU/bey82KaSBNE/s1600/foreign-soldiers-german-nazi-army-wehrmacht-ww2-second-world-war-amazing-incredible-dramtic-pics-pictures-photos-image-bosnian.jpg)

Think you will find that a lot of these had the choice...join the wermacht or face death !!!!

I worked with some Lithuanians for a cple months in 1983...they had ss tatoos..three of them marched throught russia and back again...and had been together all that time .....forty odd yrs....it was join or be executed...simple choice in my book !!!!!!

tinyint
27-10-2010, 10:43 PM
Think you will find that a lot of these had the choice...join the wermacht or face death !!!!

I worked with some Lithuanians for a cple months in 1983...they had ss tatoos..three of them marched throught russia and back again...and had been together all that time .....forty odd yrs....it was join or be executed...simple choice in my book !!!!!!

BS.
They joined quite proudly and of free will, just to kick bolshevist ass.

They didn't force lots of ukrainians to form divisions, or muslims.
Utter nonsense.

It was much like the Legion Etrangere.

Funnily enough, I got me the idea of asking my grandpa for his war pictures, eg from Latvia.
You will see enthusiastic waving people welcoming the occupiers.

ladybird
27-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Think you will find that a lot of these had the choice...join the wermacht or face death !!!!

I worked with some Lithuanians for a cple months in 1983...they had ss tatoos..three of them marched throught russia and back again...and had been together all that time .....forty odd yrs....it was join or be executed...simple choice in my book !!!!!!

Do you think this was different with other armies at that time?

Which ones?

.

entrangermercenary
27-10-2010, 10:54 PM
BS.
They joined quite proudly and of free will, just to kick bolshevist ass.

They didn't force lots of ukrainians to form divisions, or muslims.
Utter nonsense.

It was muc like the Legion Etrangere.

Yep of course it was :rolleyes: the SS was a pure german setup was it not ???Untill the shit hit the fan...then any joe blogs could get in !!!

That was there story....Germans were kicking ass...as they rolled over countries ultimatiums were given ..quite simple to grasp march or die ;)

entrangermercenary
27-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Do you think this was different with other armies at that time?

Which ones?

.

Well the brits were not rolling over europe were they !!!

As far as I know they had plenty of volunteers from the commonwealth joining up...but if it wasnt for the yanks...we would be speaking German now...which is a lot better than that Russian shit :D

tinyint
27-10-2010, 11:10 PM
Yep of course it was :rolleyes: the SS was a pure german setup was it not ???Untill the shit hit the fan...then any joe blogs could get in !!!

That was there story....Germans were kicking ass...as they rolled over countries ultimatiums were given ..quite simple to grasp march or die ;)

Nonsense.

As the pictures state, multi racial ethic group, surely homogeneous divisions though, the SS.
Of course not the inner core.

Why can't you accept that people joined freely to fight for Germany? Its a well established fact.

You would really that many people force to fight for you and supply them weapons? Where is the error?

drakul
27-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Nonsense.

As the pictures state, multi racial ethic group, surely homogeneous divisions though, the SS.
Of course not the inner core.

Why can't you accept that people joined freely to fight for Germany? Its a well established fact.

You would really that many people force to fight for you and supply them weapons? Where is the error?

But look at the KIND of people Nazis recruited to fight the Slavs - many were from the `sewers of Europe', as my father used to say - Muslim Turks, Muslim Albanians and Muslim `Bosnians'. Sure they delighted in killing Christian Slavs. Many of whom were not even remotely communist, especially in Eastern Europe.

Then there were the Croatian Ustase who set up the famous death camps in Croatia known as Jasenovac for the Orthodox Christian Serbs. Ustase SS fought valiantly for Germany too. Ustase had a special knife made in Germany for cutting throats quickly, they called it the Srbosjek - Serb cutter. They used to have throat-cutting contests at Jasenovac -see who could cut the most throats in a single night. Same as how those valiant German allies, the Japanese, had head chopping contests in China. Great people, these German allies.

Jasenovac concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tinyint
28-10-2010, 01:28 PM
But look at the KIND of people Nazis recruited to fight the Slavs - many were from the `sewers of Europe', as my father used to say - Muslim Turks, Muslim Albanians and Muslim `Bosnians'. Sure they delighted in killing Christian Slavs. Many of whom were not even remotely communist, especially in Eastern Europe.

Then there were the Croatian Ustase who set up the famous death camps in Croatia known as Jasenovac for the Orthodox Christian Serbs. Ustase SS fought valiantly for Germany too. Ustase had a special knife made in Germany for cutting throats quickly, they called it the Srbosjek - Serb cutter. They used to have throat-cutting contests at Jasenovac -see who could cut the most throats in a single night. Same as how those valiant German allies, the Japanese, had head chopping contests in China. Great people, these German allies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek

I find it strange you complain about nazis view on slavic people and yet you have similar views on muslims. :confused:

Great people these allies who fought against the axis, who almost hoaxed all the known "history"?

Still no word on Stalin and the bolshevist murder horde? I learned at school the wehrmacht did Katyn.

http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/katyn/spisok.shtml

http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rusarchives.ru%2Fpubl ication%2Fkatyn%2Fspisok.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

No word on Stalin's order 0428, from 17.11.1941?

See "Archiv Serie 429, Rolle 461, Generalstab des Heeres, Abtlg. Fremde Heere Ost II H 3/70 Fr 6439568", National Archives Washington!

Fremde Heere Ost, thats Gehlen & the CIA after the war.

1. Alle Siedlungsgebiete, an denen sich deutsche Truppen befinden, sind auf 40 bis 60 Kilometer ab der Hauptkampflinie in die Tiefe zu zerstören und in Brand zu setzen, 20 bis 30 Kilometer nach rechts und links von den Wegen. Zur Vernichtung der Siedlungspunkte im angegebenen Radius ist die Luftwaffe hinzuzuziehen, sind Artillerie- und Granatwerferfeuer großflächig zu nutzen, ebenso die Kommandos der Aufklärung, Skiläufer und Partisanen-Divisionsgruppen, die mit Brennstoffflaschen ausgerüstet sind. Die Jagkommandos sollen überwiegend aus Beutebeständen in Uniformen des deutschen Heeres und der Waffen-SS eingekleidet die Vernichtungsaktion ausführen. Das schürt den Haß auf die faschistischen Besatzer und erleichtert die Anwerbung von Partisanen im Hinterland der Faschisten. Es ist darauf zu achten, daß Überlebende zurückbleiben, die über „deutsche Greueltaten“ berichten können.
2. Zu diesem Zweck sind in jedem Regiment Jagdkommandos zu bilden in Stärke von 20 bis 30 Mann, mit der Aufgabe, Sprengung und Inbrandsetzung der Siedlungspunkte durchzuführen. Es müssen mutige Kämpfer für diese Aktionen der Vernichtung von Siedlungspunkten ausgewählt werden. Besonders jene, die hinter den deutschen Linien [in gegnerischen Uniformen] Siedlungspunkte vernichten, sind zu Ordensverleihungen vorzuschlagen. In der Bevölkerung ist zu verbreiten, daß die Deutschen die Dörfer und Ortschaften in Brand setzen, um die Partisanen zu bestrafen.

1. All settlement areas, where are German troops, are to be destroyed 40 to 60 kilometers from the main battle line in the depth and to be set on fire, 20 to 30 kilometers to the right and left of the road. For the destruction of the settlement points in the specified radius, the air force will support, artillery and mortar fire to use on a large area, as are the commands of the scouts, skiers and partisan division groups that are equipped with fuel bottles. The extermination commandos will mainly perform dressed in uniforms of prey held by the German army and Waffen-SS . This fuels the hatred of the fascist occupiers and facilitating the recruitment of partisans in the rear of the fascists. It is important to ensure that survivors remain who can report on "German atrocities".
2. To this end, in every regiment commandos form in strength from 20 to 30 men, with the task of demolition and arson carried out of the settlement points. It must be selected courageous fighter for the actions of the destruction of settlement points. Especially those that kill behind the German lines [in opposing uniforms] settlement points are proposed for promotion ceremonies. In the population is to be spread that the Germans set fire to villages and towns, to punish the partisans.

Cmon, you got to be more objective and open minded.

You again use blame game, I am not interested in.

drakul
28-10-2010, 02:19 PM
When it comes to `Germany's willing allies' who invaded Russia. Let us not forget another invasion of Russia - that of Napoleon who also had a huge army gathered from all over Europe. Except this was 1812 and there was no Soviet Union, no Communist Gulags then. So what were all these valiant French allies, who made up 50% of the Grande Armee' fighting the Russians for? NOT to save the world from Communism.

Why would Napoleon even invade Russia? What real need was there? Before the invasion, Napoleon said something about preventing Russian invasion of (Catholic) Poland. Did Napoleon invade Russia at the behest of the VATICAN? Shhhh Vatican involvement in stirring up wars? We won't go there, that's sacred ground...

And like Hitler, Napoleon, the vaunted military genius commits strategic suicide and ends up losing nearly his entire army of 600,000 in Russia.

tinyint
28-10-2010, 02:25 PM
When it comes to `Germany's willing allies' who invaded Russia. Let us not forget another invasion of Russia - that of Napoleon who also had a huge army gathered from all over Europe. Except this was 1812 and there was no Soviet Union, no Communist Gulags then. So what were all these valiant French allies, who made up 50% of the Grande Armee' fighting the Russians for? NOT to save the world from Communism.

Why would Napoleon even invade Russia? What real need was there? Before the invasion, Napoleon said something about freeing (Catholic) Poland. So perhaps he did it at the behest of the VATICAN? But we won't go there, shhhh that's is sacred ground...

And like Hitler, Napoleon, the vaunted military genius commits strategic suicide and ends up losing nearly his entire army of 600,000 in Russia.

Order 0428?

How many Russians were killed in WWII? 20 million

drakul
28-10-2010, 03:25 PM
I find it strange you complain about nazis view on slavic people and yet you have similar views on muslims. :confused:

Whoah - where did I ever call Muslims an INFERIOR RACE? Hitler referred to the Slavs as an inferior race - the SLAVE RACE. Muslims are not a race. They come in all colors, wherever the vaunted sword of Islam puts its foot - you find new Muslims springing from the earth. I just don't like the religion of ISLAM.

Great people these allies who fought against the axis, who almost hoaxed all the known "history"?

Oh there's no end to the lies on or about any and all sides.


Still no word on Stalin and the bolshevist murder horde? I learned at school the wehrmacht did Katyn.

http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/katyn/spisok.shtml

http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rusarchives.ru%2Fpubl ication%2Fkatyn%2Fspisok.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

No word on Stalin's order 0428, from 17.11.1941?

See "Archiv Serie 429, Rolle 461, Generalstab des Heeres, Abtlg. Fremde Heere Ost II H 3/70 Fr 6439568", National Archives Washington!

Fremde Heere Ost, thats Gehlen & the CIA after the war.

The Katyn Massacre - the Soviets did it. Does that make the Nazis any better? The Nazis bombed the defenseless city of Belgrade on Easter Sunday, 1941, killing 17,000 people. What was their crime? They refused to sign Hitler's Tri Partite Pact. How is that really any different from the Katyn Massacre?


Cmon, you got to be more objective and open minded.

How would you like me to be more open-minded? What do you want me to say? You want me to condemn the Communist Gulags - Yes without a doubt they were an atrocious crime against humanity. Were the death camps the reason that Hitler invaded Russia? Hardly. The Germans and their allies set up just as many death camps of their own and were well on their way to killing a lot more people, considering the 50 million that died in WWII.

The point that I disagreed with was that Hitler and the Nazis were actually the unknown good guys of WWII. Why? Because the Nazis and their valiant allies were in fact fighting Communism. They were saving the world from Bolshevism. I disagree with that analysis because if you look at the genocide committed by the Germans and their allies in the Balkans against NON Communists you will see that the Nazis set up death camps and perpetrated devastation and genocide there as well.

Why did the Nazis do it? To steal people's resources and lands. Because the Nazis believed Hitler that the Slavs were `an inferior race of Untermenschen'. And to some extent, this Nazi attitude of `racial superiority' is still endemic today although more subtly expressed.

Also because the VATICAN which was a major player in Hitler's rise, has plotted for 1,000 years to `convert' the Slavs and the Greeks from Christian Orthodoxy to Catholocism. For this reason Hitler had to conquer ALL of Orthodoxy, not just Russia. And look what Hitler did in Yugoslavia. He gave Croatia to the Catholic Nazi Croats, gave Bosnia to the Muslim Bosnians and Kosovo to the Muslim Albanians. Serbia with all its strategic railway, road and water routes he reserved for occupation by the German army for Operation Barbarossa.

I quoted Hitler's own words from Mein Kampf (1925) which stated his intent to invade Russia for its land and resources and to terminate the Slavs at his discretion as an `INFERIOR RACE'.

How does that mean I am not open-minded? Isn't this an open debate? Or are there certain no-nos certain sacred cows that must not be touched, like the Vatican's role in Hitler's rise?

You again use blame game, I am not interested in.

`Blame game'? - a catch-all phrase. Be specific.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2010, 03:41 PM
When it comes to `Germany's willing allies' who invaded Russia. Let us not forget another invasion of Russia - that of Napoleon who also had a huge army gathered from all over Europe. Except this was 1812 and there was no Soviet Union, no Communist Gulags then. So what were all these valiant French allies, who made up 50% of the Grande Armee' fighting the Russians for? NOT to save the world from Communism.

Why would Napoleon even invade Russia? What real need was there? Before the invasion, Napoleon said something about preventing Russian invasion of (Catholic) Poland. Did Napoleon invade Russia at the behest of the VATICAN? Shhhh Vatican involvement in stirring up wars? We won't go there, that's sacred ground...

And like Hitler, Napoleon, the vaunted military genius commits strategic suicide and ends up losing nearly his entire army of 600,000 in Russia.
It goes way back further than this the Balkan wars and previous ones. I explained earlier the alliances that are made - broken - peace treaties deals made and countries constantly changing sides.

Heard of the gates of Vienna? Austria halted the invasion of Muslims. Years later Muslims sided with Austria/Germany (nazis) after centuries of wars.
It was Serbians who assasinated Ferdinand that helped cause the first world war (but all countries in the region had been fighting and changing sides for centuries already) The Russians had their empires that invaded and grabbed land, partitioned it same as the others done.
Have a read through this lot.

HISTORY OF THE TURKS LECTURE 9. OTTOMAN DECLINE AND TRADITIONALISTIC REFORM, 1566-1792
1. Why did the Ottoman Empire decline? Was there real decline? Why did the decline last
so long? Role of substratum of Ottoman society in protecting subjects from worst
aspects of decline. Traditionalistic Ottoman reform.

2.Manifestations of decline and disintegration.



a. Decline in quality of rulers caused by triumph of Devsirne during reign of Suleyman Kanuni, following appointment of Damad Ibrahim Pasa as Grand Vezir. Struggles for power of Devsirme-Harem parties who make appointments for party benefit, leading to misrule, corruption, oppression. b. Social and economic changes. Overpopulation in Mediterranean area. Works of Fernand Braudel. Ottoman inability to meet needs of rapidly increasing population, due to Ottoman governmental system, power of gilds. Economic decline, inflation, debasement of currency. Racism and religious bigotryincrease of European power in marketplace due to Capitulations, Ottoman weakness, leads to increased Christian 'blood libel' attacks on Jews, Muslims and Jews pushed out of marketplace. Jews and Muslims driven to lowest ranks of Ottoman society.
c. Rise of autonomous provincial notables, bandits -derebeys, klephts, etc. who take over provincial administrative systems. Istanbul Ruling Class unable to collect provincial revenues. Unemployed urban and rural mobs riot, pull members of Ruling Class apart, raid government food depots.

3. Traditionalistic reform.



a. Attitude of Ruling Class members to reform. Benefit from abuses. Allow reforms only when Empire threatened. b. European inability to take advantage of Ottoman weakness.
c. Nature of traditionalistic Ottoman reform. Based on premise that Ottoman ways superior to European ways-decline due not to European superiority but to Ottoman failure to practice traditional Ottoman institutions. Reform therefore involves restoration of traditional institutions that were successful in 15th century. Failure to see that Europe had advanced since that time.

4. Reform under Grand Vezir Mehmed Sokullu (1565-1579). Sokullu's devsirme party allied with Harem party led by Roxelana (Hurrem Sultan) and party of Jewish bankers led by Dona Gracia Mendes and Don Joseph Nasi. Manages to get Suleyman Kanuni to execute capable son Mustafa and bring to throne incompetent degenerate son Selim II 'the sot'-Sari Selim (Selim the Yellow), Sarhos Selim (Selim the Drunkard). Don Joseph gets Selim II and Sokullu to conquer Cyprus to provide home for Jews fleeing from persecution in Europe. Settlement of East Anatolian Turkomans instead. Leads to formation of new Holy League fleet led by Don Juan of Austria, defeats Ottoman, fleet at Battle of Lepanto (1571). Sokullu rebuilds fleet during winter, regains control of Mediterranean in 1572. Makes major administrative reforms, restores tax system, eliminates corrupt officials. Ottomans complete conquest of Yemen, Gulf fleet restores International trade routes from Far East through Middle East. Ottomans complete conquests of Caucasus, Georgia and Armenia. Successes lead to fall of Sokullu, resumption of decay.
5. Reform under Osman II (1618-1622), known as 'Osman the Young'-'Genc Osman.' Tries to eliminate Devsirme element in Ottoman Ruling Class, restore Turkish dominance. Replaces Janissaries with Anatolian Turkish militia, replaces Christian women in court with Turkish women. Starts moving Ottoman capital to central Anatolia. Leads to Janissary revolt, death of Osman while still young.
6. Murad IV (1623-1640). Controlled by Devsirme until Treaty of Sitva Torok (1606) shows Ruling Class that reforms needed to save empire from Europeans. Further threatened by new Iranian ruler Shah Abbas who revives Safavid Iran and conquers Iraq. Anatolia falls under control of robber notables led by Celalis. Murad defeats Safavids, peace made by Treaty of Kasr-I Sirin (1639). Then turns to rapid reform. Sultan advised by Koci Bey, who studies entire Ottoman system and recommends systematic reforms. Goes into streets in disguise to learn condition of subjects. Tries to enforce social morality, clothing regulations. Executes corrupt officials, replaces them with young, efficient, honest officials. Restores Ottoman strength, leading to his overthrow and replacement by Sultan Ibrahim. (1640).
7. Sultan Ibrahim (1640-1648)--the worst of all Ottoman sultans. Called 'Ibrahim the mad'-Deli Ibrahim--emptied treasury with extravagant purchases, palaces, parties, furs on walls of palaces. Cycle of corruption resumed. Led to overthrow for Mehmed IV.
8. Mehmed IV (1648-1687). Empire threatened by Venetian fleet, Celali movements in Anatolia, general corruption, disintegration of Empire. Brings in dynasty of strong Grand V ezirs who carry out major traditionalistic reforms--Koprulu family-Mehmed Kolrulu (1656-1661), Ahmed Koprulu (1656-1661), Fazil Ahmed Koprulu (1661-1676). Success of reforms leads Kara Mustafa Koprulu (1676-1683) to attempt second effort to conquer Vienna. Collapse of Ottoman army makes Europe fully aware for first time of extent of Ottoman weakness, leads to formation of Holy League and rise of the Eastern Question.
9. Holy League formed by Pope Innocent XI (1676-1689), including Venice, Austria, Poland and Russia who attack Ottoman Empire from different directions. Russians ravage Crimea (1687-1689), massacre thousands of Tatars, but finally driven out. Poland conquers southern Ukraine (Podolia) to the Black Sea. Habsburgs push Ottoman army away from Vienna, conquer Hungary, massacre thousands of Muslims. Remaining Turkish timar landowners flee to Bosnia, where they establish new estates. Experience at hands of Christians in Hungary leads them to become most fanatically anti-Christian element in Ottoman society. Habsburgs capture Belgrade (1688), move through Serbia into Bulgaria, massacrting thousands of Muslims with help of native Serbs and Bulgars. Venice captures Dalmatia, attacks Ottomans in southern Greece, bombards Athens and partly destroy Parthenon.
10. Ottoman Ruling Class reacts with new reform effort. Mehmed IV deposed for Suleyman III (1687-1691). Mustafa Koprulu made Grand Vezir. Carries out traditionalistic reforms which restore administration and army. Launch counteroffensive. Help Tatars push Russians out of Crimea. Push Poles away from Black Sea back into Podolia. Drive Habsburgs out of Bulgaria and Serbia, accompanied by thousands of Serbian peasants who rightly feared they would be massacred by Turks in revenge for what they had done to Turks during Habsburg advance-settle in southern Hungary was 'Prechany Serbs.' Ottoman army recaptures Belgrade, crosses Danube, but effort to regain Hungary defeated by Habsburgs at Battle of Slankamen (19 August 1691). Success leads to fall of Mustafa Koprulu, restoration of Ottoman abuses. Habsburgs go on offensive under Prince Eugene of Savoy, rout Ottomans at Battle of Senta (1697). But Habsburgs diverted by new war with France, War of Spanish Succession (1701-1714), so make peace with Ottomans by Treaty of Karlowitz (26 January 1699). Habsburgs get Hungary Croatia, Transylvania. Venice gets the Morea, Dalmatia, control of Eastern Mediterranean. Poland gets Podolia. Ottomans agree to allow Russia to establish port at Azov, start fleet on Black sea, beginning Russian push for control of Black Sea and Straits into the Mediterranean.
11. Peter the Great (1689-1725) modernizes Russia. Defeats Sweden in Great Northern War (1700-1721). Defeats Swedish king Charles XII (1697-1718) at Battle of Poltava (1709). Charles flees into exile to Istanbul. Intrigues in cooperation with French ambassador and Crimean Tatars to get Ottomans to attack Russia so he could regain his throne in Sweden and Tatars could regain control of north Black sea area. Bribes cause Ottomans to declare war on Russia. Peter the Great wanted to conquer Ottoman Empire, but only after he was finished conquering Baltic area, maintaining rule in Sweden. But when Ottoman army went through Bulgaria to invade Russia (1711), Peter formed what army he could muster. Surrounded and forced to surrender by Ottomans at Battle of the Pruth River (1711). Treaty of the Pruth allowed him to return home with his army intact in return only for giving up gains made at Karlowitz, surrender of port at Azov. Let off easily by Grand Vezir Baltaci Mehmed Pasa due to bribes, causing Grand Vezir to be executed afterwards.
12. Ottoman victory over Russia emboldened Istanbul war party to get sultan to attack Venice in order to regain previous losses. (1715). Ottomans regain Morea with help of Greek population, who had been subjected to religious oppression by Catholic Venetians. Habsburgs enter war (1716), nominally to help Venice. Eugene of Savoy routs Ottomans at Battle of Peterwaradin (1716), reoccupy Serbia, massacre thousands of Turks. March into Wallachia (Southern Rumania), but this angers Russians who want eastern Balkans for themselves. Russia gets Habsburgs to stop advances to preserve Balance of Power in Europe, to sign Peace Treaty with Ottomans at Passarowitz (21 July 1718), leaving Austria in control of Serbia, but failing to regain the Morea for Venice. Defeats lead Ottomans to new reform period called the Tulip Period (1716-1718), to be discussed later.
13. New Ottoman-Russia war (1736-1739) resulted from Russian effort to regain Azov, stir discord among Tatar princes to gain control of Crimea as first step to dominating Black Sea and Straits, gaining open access to Mediterranean. Russian army invades and devastates Crimea, Rumania, Bulgaria, massacring thousands, moving along Black Sea coast toward Istanbul. Austrians enter war (1737) to get their share, but then make peace with Ottomans (Treaty of Belgrade-1738), surrendering Serbia to Ottomans to leave them in position to resist Russian push toward Istanbul. But in return, Sultan forced to acknowledge Austrian Emperor as official representative for all Ottoman Christian subjects, a position also claimed by Russia. Led to European intervention in Ottoman internal affairs afterwards. Austrian pullout forced Russia also to accept peace at Treaty of Nissa (3 October 1739), by which Russia gave up the Crimea and Moldavia, but allowed to build port at Azov, again gaining foothold on Black Sea.
14. Europe busy with War of Austrian Succession (1740-1748), and Seven Years War (1756-1763), giving Ottomans time for new reforms, but peace caused Ruling Class to avoid reforms so that instead many of old abuses returned. New Ottoman-Russian war (1768-1774) followed due to ambitions of Russian Empress Catherine the Great (1762-1796). Catherine arranged for her lover Stanislas Poniatowski to be elected as King of Poland in order to establish Russian control over Poland. Austria and France feared this would increase Russian power, upset Balance of Power in Europe, so they encouraged Polish nationalists to revolt against Russian domination., got Ottomans to attack Russia to divert it from Poland, though Ottoman army had decayed. Grand Vezir leads invading Ottoman army into Rumania (1769), but it broke up in disorder, without supplies or ammunition. Russians invaded Rumania, marched toward Istanbul. Since they still had no Black Sea fleet, they sent Baltic fleet through Atlantic, Straits of Gibraltar, into Eastern Mediterranean. Under Admiral Orlov, landed money and ammunition to local rebel groups in Albania, Greece, Egypt and Syria, stimulating further disintegration of Ottoman Power. Prussia leads European powers intervention to secure OttomanRussian peace because of fear that Russian conquest of Ottoman Empire would upset European Balance of Power, make Russia supreme on continent. Powers agree on Partition of Poland to satisfy everyone (1772), but Ottomans refuse to make peace unless Russians surrender all gains. Powers therefore allow Russians to attack Ottomans (1774) under general Alexander Suvorov. Russians occupy Bulgaria, rout remnants of Ottoman army, again march toward Istanbul, forcing Ottomans to surrender and accept European intervention for peace.
15. Treaty of Kucuk Kaynarca (16 July 1774). Ottomans forced to accept independence of Crimean Tatars, allowing them to be taken over by Russia in 1783. Russia allowed to station representatives throughout Ottoman Empire and to act as protector of Ottoman Christians, thus giving it legal right to intervene in Ottoman internal affairs to destabilize and weaken Empire. Ottoman Sultan recognized as Caliph of Muslims under foreign control.
16. Ottoman-Russian war (1787-1792). Caused by Catherine the Great's effort to carry out her 'Greek Scheme'. Her grandson Constantine would become Emperor of revived Byzantine Empire, with capital at Istanbul, under Russian domination Other European states to be compensated to retain Balance of Power-France to get Syria, England to get Egypt, Austria to get the western Balkans, Venice to get the Morea. France gets Ottomans to attack Russia due to Russian annexation of the Crimea in 1783. Russian army again moves through Bulgaria toward Istanbul. Austria enters war (1789) to get its share, conquers Serbia. Britain, Holland and Prussia form Triple Alliance (1788) against Russia and Austria. Austria makes separate peace with Ottomans at Sistova (1791), to prevent Russia from gaining too much. Forces Russia to make peace with Ottomans at Treaty of Jassy (9 January 1792). Russia gives Rumania back to Ottomans but forces Ottomans to accept Russian role in appointing native Rumanian princes to administer the country. Ottomans forced to accept Russian conquest of the Crimea, and to allow Russia to build fleet on the Black Sea for the first time, thus further extending Russian efforts to control the Straits and the passageways to the open seas.


http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/shaw/classes/111a/98F/lec9.htm

eternal_spirit
28-10-2010, 04:05 PM
Russo-Ottoman Wars (1710–1711; 1736–1739; 1768–1774; 1787–1792). The first Russo-Ottoman War of the eighteenth century occurred during the expansion era of Peter I, also known as Peter the Great (ruled 1682–1725), who stopped paying tribute to the Khan of the Crimea, an Ottoman vassal, when he became tsar in 1683. He staged attacks on the Perekop Isthmus in the 1680s and Azov (http://www.answers.com/topic/sea-of-azov) in 1695 because the Russians viewed the Crimea as a haven for Tatars who continually raided Russian areas to seize captives, property, and livestock. In 1696, Peter mounted the first successful attack on Azov, using the new flotilla (http://www.answers.com/topic/flotilla) he had built.



In a 1700 Russian-Ottoman peace treaty, Russia was permitted to keep Azov and had the cancellation of its tribute payment to the Crimean khans formally recognized.
Russo-Ottoman War of 1710–1711
Sultan Ahmet III (ruled 1703–1730) initially looked favorably on the Russians because one of his grand viziers, Chorlulu Ali Pasha, cultivated good relations with them to prevent Ottoman entanglement in European politics.


Russia's overwhelming victory against the Swedes at Poltava in 1709 has been attributed to the fact that Ali Pasha (http://www.answers.com/topic/ali-pasha) kept Crimean troops from intervening against Russia.
Ali Pasha was soon dismissed, though, when the mood of religious officials in Constantinople was swayed by the anti-Russian


(http://www.answers.com/topic/sentiment)

(http://www.answers.com/topic/sentiment)
sentiment (http://www.answers.com/topic/sentiment) of the Crimeans. Also, the Swedish King Charles XII (ruled 1697–1718) had fled to the Ottomans from his failed encounter with Peter I and worked to stir (http://www.answers.com/topic/stir) up



anti-Russian sentiments even more. When it appeared that after their Poltava triumph the Russians were getting ready to attack the Crimea, the Ottomans preemptively declared war on them. A Russian army led in person by Peter and his wife, Catherine I, invaded Moldavia for the first time in centuries, attempting to secure it before Ottoman forces could arrive.
However, the Russians ran into severe food shortages there, and a large Ottoman army proved to be close by.



When the Russians were suddenly surrounded at a place on the Pruth tributary of the Danube on 21 July 1711 by regular Ottoman forces on one side and Tatars on the other, they had to surrender to avoid annihilation (http://www.answers.com/topic/annihilation).



Peter agreed to give back Azov, demolish his fortresses in its vicinity, release Ottoman prisoners, and allow Charles XII safe passage to Sweden. This swift Russian agreement to favorable terms for a time convinced the Ottomans that the Russians were not a serious threat.



The final peace treaty (1713) pushed the Russians back as far north as the Orel River and required Peter to evacuate Poland within two months.


Its terms would constantly be challenged over the next few years as Peter continued to modernize and expand his nation, which aroused Ottoman suspicions of Russian intentions.


Notwithstanding these tensions, both took advantage of the turmoil (http://www.answers.com/topic/turmoil) produced by the 1722 Afghan conquest of Iran to occupy Iranian territory in Azerbaijan and the Caucasus. The Russians and the Ottomans signed an agreement in 1724 that recognized each other's recent acquisitions in Iran.



The agreement called for the restoration of the Shi‘ite Safavids instead of the Sunni Afghans as the rulers of Iran—a curious stance for the Ottomans, quintessential defenders of Sunni Islam against Shi‘ism. This agreement, too, proved fleeting when a new Iranian monarch, Nadir Shah (http://www.answers.com/topic/nadir-shah) (ruled 1736–1747), drove both the Russians and the Ottomans out of their occupied territories.
Russo-Ottoman War of 1736–1739
The next Russo-Ottoman conflict broke out in 1736, when Russia determined to put a stop to Crimean Tatar attacks on its territories and finally to establish a presence on the Black Sea.



After Russia had resolved its then outstanding conflicts with other European nations, the tsar denounced Ottoman negligence of the Treaty of Pruth as a pretext (http://www.answers.com/topic/pretext) for war.


Encouraged by the French, the Ottomans declared war on both Russia and Austria in May 1736 to protest the placement of a pro-Russian candidate on the Polish throne.
The first result was that the Russians, who were better mobilized, invaded the Crimea and took Azov within three months.



However, they soon had to withdraw because of poor logistics. Russia then shifted focus to Moldavia and Walachia (http://www.answers.com/topic/wallachia) when its ally Austria captured Niš in 1737. Soon, though, the Austrians were pushed back so decisively that they were forced to sign a treaty with the Ottomans in 1739 at Belgrade, giving up most of the territory they had been assigned at Passarowitz (http://www.answers.com/topic/peace-of-passarowitz) in 1718.




As this agreement was being signed, the Russians were in the midst of trying to incite (http://www.answers.com/topic/incite) a Balkan Christian revolt against the Ottomans, had advanced deep into Moldavia, and were preparing to conquer Walachia, but news of the treaty ended these plans. With Austrian assistance gone, the Russians also signed an agreement with the Ottomans and relinquished Azov again.
Russo-Ottoman War of 1768–1774


In 1768, when Catherine II, also known as Catherine the Great (ruled 1762–1796), revived Peter's imperialist (http://www.answers.com/topic/imperialist) projects and began interfering in Polish affairs again, the sultan declared war on Russia. Because internal Crimean politics and severe logistical difficulties had greatly weakened the Ottoman military, the Russians advanced swiftly into Moldavia and Walachia.


They decimated a huge Ottoman army at Kartal in 1770. The Russians also finally took Crimea and came to dominate naval warfare in the Black Sea and even in the Aegean. In this conflict, Austria actually restrained Russia because it worried about excessive Russian influence in Poland.
Following a significant number of Russian victories, the 1774 Treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji (http://www.answers.com/topic/treaty-of-kuchuk-kainarji) allowed the Ottoman sultan to remain the religious leader, or caliph, of the Crimean Muslims, who were declared politically autonomous. Russia then took much of the northern Black Sea coast and received a large war indemnity (http://www.answers.com/topic/indemnity) from the Ottomans.



A Russian cathedral was built in Constantinople, which was later construed to mean that the tsar was the protector of all Ottoman Orthodox Christians.
Russo-Ottoman War of 1787–1792
In 1787, Catherine developed a scheme to expel the Ottomans from Europe and divide their European territories between Russia and Austria. The Ottoman reaction was to wage war to regain the Crimea. The war reached a critical stage in 1789 when the Austrians conquered Belgrade and the Russians took Walachia. Just as the two were set to advance on Constantinople, other European powers persuaded them to end the war in order to help contain the tide of revolution sweeping across Europe from France.



The Russians finally signed the 1792 Treaty of Jassy (http://www.answers.com/topic/treaty-of-jassy), by which they extended their control of the Black Sea coast and declared that henceforth Russia was the sovereign of the Crimea. In effect, the Black Sea, too, now passed into Russian hands.
Bibliography
Fisher, Alan. The Crimean Tatars. Stanford, 1978.
Goffman, Daniel. The Ottoman Empire and Early Modern Europe. Cambridge, U.K., and New York, 2002.
Kurat, A. N., and Bromley, J. S. "The Retreat of the Turks, 1683–1730." In A History of the Ottoman Empire to 1730, edited by M. A. Cook, pp. 178–219. Cambridge, U.K., and New York, 1976.
Shaw, Stanford J. History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey. Cambridge, U.K., and New York, 1976.

eternal_spirit
28-10-2010, 04:53 PM
Battle of Vienna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Battle of Vienna

tinyint
28-10-2010, 08:09 PM
`Blame game'? - a catch-all phrase. Be specific.

eg...

This should be of interest for you.
However, you'll have to translate them somehow.

http://rapidshare.com/files/427659418/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._7_-_Dokumente_zum_Konflikt_mit_Jugoslawien_und_Griech enland__1941-1

http://rapidshare.com/files/427659935/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Roosevelts_Weg_in_den_Krieg__1943__116_S.__Scan_. pdf

http://rapidshare.com/files/427660409/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Ein_franzoesischer_Diplomat_ueber_die_bolschewist ische_Gefahr__1943__186_S.__Scan

More to come when finished uploading.

All forbidden documents for the public here.

tinyint
28-10-2010, 08:33 PM
For ES, this one on Polish atrocities.

http://rapidshare.com/files/427663182/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Dokumente_polnischer_Grausamkeit__1940__459_S.__S can_.pdf


http://rapidshare.com/files/427664174/Office_of_the_Military_Government_for_Germany_-_Property_Control_in_the_US_occupied_Area_of_Germa ny_

http://rapidshare.com/files/427671205/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_-_Urkunden_zur_letzten_Phase_der_deutsch-polnischen_Krise__1939__44_S._

http://rapidshare.com/files/427674926/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._2_-_Dokumente_zur_Vorgeschichte_des_Krieges__1939-1995__523_S.__Sca

http://rapidshare.com/files/427677134/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._3_-_Polnische_Dokumente_zur_Vorgeschichte_des_Krieges __1940__128_S.

http://rapidshare.com/files/427661412/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._4_-_Dokumente_zur_englisch-franzoesischen_Politik_der_Kriegsausweit

http://rapidshare.com/files/427671600/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._5_-_Weitere_Dokumente_zur_Kriegsausweitungspolitik_de r_Westmaechte_

http://rapidshare.com/files/427673828/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._6_-_Die_Geheimakten_des_franzoesischen_Generalstabes_ _1941-1995__39

http://rapidshare.com/files/427673600/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._8_-_Dokumente_ueber_die_Alleinschuld_Englands_am_Bomb enkrieg_gegen_

http://rapidshare.com/files/427664174/Office_of_the_Military_Government_for_Germany_-_Property_Control_in_the_US_occupied_Area_of_Germa ny_

rodin
28-10-2010, 08:41 PM
And how many millions of Catholics died during the war? Maybe more than Orthodox Christians.


Wasn't what happened in Yugoslavia something to do with them siding with Communists? such as Tito, and whatever else went on before he ran things. If not then yes it was totaly awful what happened.

Look at this for disinformation a photo shopped pic of Ratzinger. Which is posted constantly to try link Nazism and Catholocism.


http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ratzingernaziyouthsalutinghitler.jpg (http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ratzingernaziyouthsalutinghitler.jpg)
The interesting thing is that Joseph Ratzinger is shown in priestly vestments. In fact, without the caption you might think he was doing anything from consecrating the Body and Blood to blessing the congregation. But, no, this website assures us he is saluting Hitler.
There’s only one tiny problem. Ratzinger was ordained in June of 1951. That is a full six years after the death of Hitler.
I guess there’s no limit to the depth some people will go to villify the Church.
Update:

Here is the whole picture. It is more likely that the Ratzinger brothers are about start a sychronised dive than that they are saluting a long-dead German dictator.

Ratzinger Brothers Ordination
http://solomonhezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ratzinger_bros_orindation.jpg?w=340&h=459

http://solomonhezekiah.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/misrepresenting-the-truth-to-defame-the-church/
I don't know sure someone else has a theory. Guess you're suggesting Hitler was a stooge. I doubt either can be proved 100% either being he was genuinely fighting for the German people.

Have you seen what Hitler said about Christianity? He wasn't a great fan. He was opposed to Roman law (Vatican) it's in the Nazi manifesto, he wanted Vatican influence abolished from Germany.
I think you're grasping at straws relying on prophecy.


Why bring all this up when the thread is about Gulags/Communism? Wouldn't it be better to post this elsewhere?:D we'll be here for ever going round in circles lol.

Also we've been through this debate several times, including the other debate Catholics (Brits/Germans/Italians/French/Spanish etc) fighting off Muslims for centuries to stop all Europe and the Uk becoming Islamised, even then you brought up the Orthodox issues and accused the Catholics even though alliances were made to fight Islam between the Orthodox other Christians and Catholics.


Don't you think some Catholics and Orthodox were allied to fight Communism too. They both got sent to the Gulags by the Commies.


Alliances change, Nazis sided with Muslims, Communist sides with the US UK etc then became the enemy. Even had Jewish Nazis, and Jews who opposed Communism.

Point is - World war 2 look who sided with who it's hodge podge of alliances some change sides during wars, can you imagine the paranoia and thirst for revenge.

So much photo fakery. Holocaust 'evidence' is riddled with it. They dare not allow full and frank investigation

rodin
28-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Many atrocities have been committed "in the name of Communism," just as many atrocities have been commited in the name of Capitalism, and continue to be commited. However you will find very few ideological Communists in the world today who are Stalinsts, most are either Marxists, Trotskyists or Anarchists and all are by default anti-Stalinists.

If Capitalism is so wonmderful, might I suggest that the ideological defenders of the Dictatorship of Capitalism here emigrate to the Congo or sell their children into sex slavery in some Thai or Cambodian brothel. It seems that the defenders of the Dictatorship of Capitalism have no problem with ideologically justifying the Capitalist genocide of humankind which inflicts humanity with a yearly death toll of the victims of poverty (the lack of Capital to buy food, as opposed to the lack of food which is generally exported from the poorest nations to the richest nations, where there is no shortage of Capital) in excess of the death toll of WW2.

Lux

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fiWJRneh4X4/ScwvZ8Qj4MI/AAAAAAAACRw/B0C8IxykCl8/s400/enjoy_capitalism.jpg
http://mises.org/images4/PyramidCapitalism.gif

see my sig

entrangermercenary
29-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Nonsense.

As the pictures state, multi racial ethic group, surely homogeneous divisions though, the SS.
Of course not the inner core.

Why can't you accept that people joined freely to fight for Germany? Its a well established fact.

You would really that many people force to fight for you and supply them weapons? Where is the error?

Of course there were foreign volunteers...I know the Brits even had contingent in the SS...
BUT

A lot were also conscripted with the threat of execution as well....

As for the weapons issue ...we had pows in a school next to us...after we come back from whatever excursion we had been on.....we used to get some of the blokes to clean our weapons...we would give them ciggies for doing that...

Fancy that giving prisoners of war weapons to clean ;)

luciferhorus
29-10-2010, 06:27 PM
see my sig (Capitalism and Communism - the twin rollers of a Judaic mill the goyim has been put throughhomosexual parents are like vegetarian butchersWe get the leaders Jews choose for us

Capitalism and Communism.

There are certainly Jewish Capitalists and Jewish anti-Capitalists just as there are non Jewish Capitalists and anti-Capitalists.

So you don't like either Capitalism "or" anti-Capitalism.

What then is your counterproposal to Capitalism and anti-Capitalism?

There are generally to types of persons who are both opposed to Capitalism and anti-Capitalism.

1: Anarchists by the most derogatory definition of the term. These persons are like those who just wish to destroy things and never rebuild things; they are rather like children who like to break things and who offer no solutions. These persons are not ideological Anarchists such as the Anarchist Communists who do propose a solution to the problems of tyranny (government) and Capitalism.

2: Capitalists who just want their own particular gang of Capitalists to prevail; this is very common in the world of Capitalist gangs. Examples of such persons would be Christian Capitalists such as Alex Jones and Henry Makow, both of whom are evangelical Capitalists who argue on the one hand, that the Capitalists and Communists are on the same side, and yet on the other hand they come down in favour of Capitalism; itis rather peculiar form of hypocrisy.

Lux

drakul
30-10-2010, 03:05 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

The Battle of Vienna

I browsed through this and the previous material you posted about the history of Europe. What is your point about the Siege of Vienna 1683, etc.?

Previously I responded to your statement that the Nazi invasion of Russia was actually a good thing because the Germans were fighting Communism. I disagreed with that because Hitler specifically mentions in Mein Kampf, 1925, his intention to invade Russia for its land (Lebensraum) and resources. Napoleon did the same thing, made a suicidal invasion of Russia in 1812, except Russia was not Communist then, so what made Napoleon take such a huge gamble?

So what do the invasions of Russia by Hitler and Napoleon have to do with the Siege of Vienna? I'm sure there is a logical line of reasoning there, I am just not sure what it is :)

drakul
30-10-2010, 01:49 PM
eg...

This should be of interest for you.
However, you'll have to translate them somehow.

http://rapidshare.com/files/427659418/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Weissbuch_Nr._7_-_Dokumente_zum_Konflikt_mit_Jugoslawien_und_Griech enland__1941-1

http://rapidshare.com/files/427659935/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Roosevelts_Weg_in_den_Krieg__1943__116_S.__Scan_. pdf

http://rapidshare.com/files/427660409/Auswaertiges_Amt_-_Ein_franzoesischer_Diplomat_ueber_die_bolschewist ische_Gefahr__1943__186_S.__Scan

More to come when finished uploading.

All forbidden documents for the public here.

Sorry Tinyint - I have never translated a document online before and would not know where to start. Maybe you can provide a brief summary? I am interested. :)

rodin
30-10-2010, 01:58 PM
Capitalism and Communism.

There are certainly Jewish Capitalists and Jewish anti-Capitalists just as there are non Jewish Capitalists and anti-Capitalists.

So you don't like either Capitalism "or" anti-Capitalism.

What then is your counterproposal to Capitalism and anti-Capitalism?

There are generally to types of persons who are both opposed to Capitalism and anti-Capitalism.

1: Anarchists by the most derogatory definition of the term. These persons are like those who just wish to destroy things and never rebuild things; they are rather like children who like to break things and who offer no solutions. These persons are not ideological Anarchists such as the Anarchist Communists who do propose a solution to the problems of tyranny (government) and Capitalism.

2: Capitalists who just want their own particular gang of Capitalists to prevail; this is very common in the world of Capitalist gangs. Examples of such persons would be Christian Capitalists such as Alex Jones and Henry Makow, both of whom are evangelical Capitalists who argue on the one hand, that the Capitalists and Communists are on the same side, and yet on the other hand they come down in favour of Capitalism; itis rather peculiar form of hypocrisy.

Lux

Jews invented debt/interest money and speculation

That is capitalism

They used the money leverage they had to industrialise the world (using goy inventions of course)

Once this was accomplished they could commence the genocide of their enemy the white race in earnest. That is what the 20th C was all about. That is why whites went from 32% to 8% in a century. Another century they plan we are extinct.

Meanwhile Jewish Communist killed a hundred million Christians in Sovjet

It's a horror show and you my friend shill for it

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141051

luciferhorus
30-10-2010, 05:17 PM
Jews invented debt/interest money and speculation

That is capitalism

They used the money leverage they had to industrialise the world (using goy inventions of course)




There are Jewish and Non Jewish Capitalists and Jewish and Non Jewish anti-Capitalists.

The non Jewish Capitalists are just a different "Capitalist gang" who want their own gang of Capitalists to dominate the world.

Your objections to what you refer to as Jewish Capitalism are not the objections of an anti-Capitalist (Communist) but rather the objections of an anti-Communist; what you appear want is just a Capitalist palace revolution with a different group of Capitalists.


Once this was accomplished they could commence the genocide of their enemy the white race in earnest.

The "majority" of the global Jewish community "are" non Semitic white people; they are the descendents of Germans, Poles, Russians, Kahzars and Europeans in general, and among the "European" Jews in Israel you will find that many of them are evangelically racist and anti-Semitic (nb. most Palestinians and "Arabs" are Semites).


That is what the 20th C was all about. That is why whites went from 32% to 8% in a century. Another century they plan we are extinct.

Non white people are breeding faster, fortunately. The white people don't seem to breed as much. Don't blame the breeders; it is entirely in accord with human nature. It is an evolutionary necessity that the white people die off and that the future humankind will be rather a "mixed race" of people. This should hopefully solve the problem of racism.

Anyway in comparison with African women, white women are relatively weak, poor, sickly, unhealthy and poor breeders. The African women are bigger, stronger and have better "child bearing hips." Blame the gods of nature if you wish.

Meanwhile Jewish Communist killed a hundred million Christians in Sovjet

While Lenin and Trotsky were Jewish by ancestry / culture, they were Europeans and many of the deaths which occurred in the Bolshevik Revolution were justifiable in my judgement since there was a civil war between the monarchists and the Bolsheviks; utlimately I am not a Bolshevik however and the Bolsheviks also persecuted other Communist groups.

With regards to the genocides of Stalin; Stalin was not Jewish; in fact he was anti-Jewish. Stalinism today is no more revered by European Communists and the Mugabe-ism is revered by European Capitalists; however if you assume that all anti-Stalinist Communists are by default morally responsible for Stalin's atrocities, then similarly you must be responsible for the genocides of the various Capitalists and anti-Communists throughout history. If Capitalism is so wonderful why don't you emigrate to the Congo or Soweto or sell yourself into slavery as a sex slave in a Thai brothel?


It's a horror show and you my friend shill for it

I have never defended Stalinism; however it is you who has proven yourself to be a shill of genocidal anti-Communism / Capitalism & Nazi apologetics.


Lux

ladybird
30-10-2010, 05:20 PM
All the ISMs are the worst deceit to DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

tinyint
30-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Fuck the isms.

drakul
30-10-2010, 05:32 PM
luciferhorus - Non white people are breeding faster, fortunately. The white people don't seem to breed as much. Don't blame the breeders; it is entirely in accord with human nature. It is an evolutionary necessity that the white people die off and that the future humankind will be rather a "mixed race" of people. This should hopefully solve the problem of racism.

Anyway in comparison with African women, white women are relatively weak, poor, sickly, unhealthy and poor breeders. The African women are bigger, stronger and have better "child bearing hips." Blame the gods of nature if you wish.


Quite a statement. Are you sure you didn't choke, just a little as you were writing it? :D This is your idea of fact? I thought you were more rational than that.

You sound like the Jewish lady from NYC who set up a `non profit' in Europe because - `We Jews will play the major role in the transformation of Europe through immigration. If this does not happen Europe will not survive'. :rolleyes:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137837

Is this your line of thinking too?

luciferhorus
30-10-2010, 05:44 PM
Fuck the isms.

"Isims" are "adjectives (describing words)."

You might as well say "fuck all adjectives;" at which point you would probably be unable to communicate in human language without using describing words (adjectives).

It might be an improvement in your case.

However... the next time you use any adjectives in your posts, I hope you will not object if charges of hypocrisy are raised.

I should point out that nouns are also describing words; you might wish to add "fuck all nouns." In which case, if you avoid using nouns and adjectives, I think we could expect an improvement in your writing.

For example "Revisionist" or "Capitalist" or "Nazi" or "Capitalist" or "Germany" are nouns; Revisionism, or Capitalism, or Nazism, or Capitalism or Germanic are all adjectives.

I expect you to henceforth cease and desist from using nouns and adjectives (describing words). Of course you will only be able to speak total nonsense; which is what you do anyway.

Lux

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 08:20 PM
http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/dailyexpress1933.gif
March, 1933]

see the topleft add? ballito stockings.

i looked it up.

http://www.hertsmemories.org.uk/page_id__150_path__0p171p.aspx

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 08:22 PM
i looked further, found this.

http://www.stalbansmuseums.org.uk/content/view/full/13465


oerlikon rounds.

oerlikon.is.in zurich.

hm

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 08:36 PM
http://zeithistorische-forschungen.de/Portals/_ZF/images/default/solzenicyn_cover_0306.jpg

All you need to know.

It was apparently a forbidden book in GDR, showing the bitter truth of the bolshevist murder system, they accused us to have.

oh, gibts das auf deutsch?muss-les

hastn link wo ichs im netz lesen kann?
ist mein lieblingsauthor, hast du sein buch"K??" gelesen?
hochinteressant&witzig


btw, jugo tito banned......."1984".lol

tinyint
30-10-2010, 09:07 PM
oh, gibts das auf deutsch?muss-les

hastn link wo ichs im netz lesen kann?
ist mein lieblingsauthor, hast du sein buch"K??" gelesen?
hochinteressant&witzig

"K" kenn ich nicht.

Yep, its available in german.

Der Archipel GULAG I: Alexander Solschenizyn: 9783596184248: Bücher@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41U3GS6f3gL.@@AMEPARAM@@41U3GS6f3gL

Don't know about ebook. Can't find it.

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 09:10 PM
"K" kenn ich nicht.

Yep, its available in german.

http://www.amazon.de/Archipel-GULAG-I-Alexander-Solschenizyn/dp/359618424X

Don't know about ebook. Can't find it.

ops, kgb, nicht "k"

dankeschoen:)

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 09:24 PM
I am sorry Drakul, but these camps were built by almost every european country at that time, you are falling for the western propaganda.
The brits actually invented concentration camps during the 2. Boer War.

Also nobody talks these days about polish built and run camps in the 20ies, were they did murder germans and russians.
The polish camps were one of the reasons for germany to finally invade Poland. The polish committed many atrocities in the years before the war broke out, the aftermath of Versailles Treaty.


You can't exclusively blame the germans for the madness on the Balkans. War will be always bloody and sad war, where life is nonsensically lost.

"From - "The Vatican's Holocaust" by Avro Manhattan." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Manhattan)

Hoaxes R us, me thinks by a jewish vatican hater.
tough jasenovac has place in yad vashem, its actually real, croat historians acknowledge it, numbers are disputed, tough.
another piece of evidence is "bleiburg" massacre, wich is considered partisans revenge on ustasi.

btw, hitler wanted pavelic off power, he tought pavelic lost it.duce said same.

the serbs&jews traditionally got along well, titos advisor was a jew, utterly hated by uk, even by uk lefties.

its a mystery to me why jew m.albright turned back on jugoslavia, she was raised there,after fleeing from nazis.
perhaps jews are pissed bc belgrade was1st city in europe declared judenfrei, but that wasnt the partisans.

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 09:39 PM
You said Hitler was a reaction/resistance against Communism - therefore the Nazis were trying to act as the good guys, saving the world from Communism. My point is right on target. In just 4 years Hitler managed to kill 50 million people. 50 million in 4 years.

Hitler was not about saving the world from Communism, that was his front. Problem, Reaction - Solution. Remember Hitler's `NEW (World) ORDER' in Mein Kampf? Hitler called the Slavs the UNTERMENSCHEN - the `Lower Men' -the `SLAVE RACE'. Germans were the Ubermenschen.

It was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples (see New Order).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

Furthermore a big reason the Nazis invaded Russia was to steal their raw materials and land (Lebensraum). Hitler made no bones about this. He talked about it from 1925 on in Mein Kampf calling it Germany's `Turn to the East'.

I am strictly anti-communist. The Soviet Gulags were terrible. But please don't try to ignore history and make the Nazis into the good guys because they invaded Russia. Comparatively speaking, the Germans killed far more people - 50 million, in just 4 years, than the Soviets did in 80 years.

hitler allegedly said during last days, that maybe slavs are the superrace:D

both hitler and stalin werent good guys, stalin even admired hitler for a while.

tinyint
30-10-2010, 09:46 PM
tough jasenovac has place in yad vashem, its actually real, croat historians acknowledge it, numbers are disputed, tough.
another piece of evidence is "bleiburg" massacre, wich is considered partisans revenge on ustasi.

btw, hitler wanted pavelic off power, he tought pavelic lost it.duce said same.

the serbs&jews traditionally got along well, titos advisor was a jew, utterly hated by uk, even by uk lefties.

its a mystery to me why jew m.albright turned back on jugoslavia, she was raised there,after fleeing from nazis.
perhaps jews are pissed bc belgrade was1st city in europe declared judenfrei, but that wasnt the partisans.

To be honest, the balkans seem to me such a complex topic. So many ethnic groups.

Das fehlt mir manchmal etwas der Überblick.

I think surely the Wehrmacht shot Partisans, but not to justify it, we see this pattern every time in armed conflict. Vietcong or Taliban are more popular names nowadays.
I think, the Ustasha were basically no different, as say some ukrainian or baltic SS divisions who raged like mad against their own people.

One could say, Tito managed this multi culture ok, but as we saw, it was more or less an administration of the problems the destruction of KuK left.
So the brits drew as usual borders which ensured a future conflict. This is a pattern of UK foreign policy, we see everywhere on earth. Be it Pakistan-India-Kashmir, Africa or the Balkans.

I think, rest serbia resisted zionist demands, as we can see fantastically in the documentary "Defamation", when the ADL "negotiates" with Ukraine.
I also think, Serbia was more aligned to Russia, who drove out some of the most criminal Oligarchs, who now reside in UK. ;)

hadabusa
30-10-2010, 10:26 PM
To be honest, the balkans seem to me such a complex topic. So many ethnic groups.

Das fehlt mir manchmal etwas der Überblick.

I think surely the Wehrmacht shot Partisans, but not to justify it, we see this pattern every time in armed conflict. Vietcong or Taliban are more popular names nowadays.
I think, the Ustasha were basically no different, as say some ukrainian or baltic SS divisions who raged like mad against their own people.

One could say, Tito managed this multi culture ok, but as we saw, it was more or less an administration of the problems the destruction of KuK left.
So the brits drew as usual borders which ensured a future conflict. This is a pattern of UK foreign policy, we see everywhere on earth. Be it Pakistan-India-Kashmir, Africa or the Balkans.

I think, rest serbia resisted zionist demands, as we can see fantastically in the documentary "Defamation", when the ADL "negotiates" with Ukraine.
I also think, Serbia was more aligned to Russia, who drove out some of the most criminal Oligarchs, who now reside in UK. ;)

oh, yes, many ethnic groups.and religions.aaand languages.
jugoslavia was a project wich at the end failed, due to times moving on and uprising nationalist demands of groups.
the jugoslav ppl today still dont know exactly why they fought, considering the aftermath.

yup,serbs&russians are "brothers", theres something special about it.

wehrmacht(or ss,rather), had 100for1 kill policy, ofc, this fueled the raise of partisans , who indeed operated like vietcong,the jugo army surrendered to germany within 2weeks i think.lol.

good post.

tinyint
31-10-2010, 12:42 AM
Sorry Tinyint - I have never translated a document online before and would not know where to start. Maybe you can provide a brief summary? I am interested. :)

You won't be able to translate them online.
These are pdf formats of file scans of german foreign policy during the third reich.

Its not easy to provide a brief summary, you have to read it somehow yourself.

I don't know the Yugoslavia file yet. I just had a quick look at it.
I am more focused on other docs atm.

Its quite "exiting" material, concerning our state dogma and other dogmatic historical views which bombarded us all.

ladybird
31-10-2010, 08:04 AM
To be honest, the balkans seem to me such a complex topic. So many ethnic groups.

Das fehlt mir manchmal etwas der Überblick.

I think surely the Wehrmacht shot Partisans, but not to justify it, we see this pattern every time in armed conflict. Vietcong or Taliban are more popular names nowadays.
I think, the Ustasha were basically no different, as say some ukrainian or baltic SS divisions who raged like mad against their own people.

One could say, Tito managed this multi culture ok, but as we saw, it was more or less an administration of the problems the destruction of KuK left.
So the brits drew as usual borders which ensured a future conflict. This is a pattern of UK foreign policy, we see everywhere on earth. Be it Pakistan-India-Kashmir, Africa or the Balkans.

I think, rest serbia resisted zionist demands, as we can see fantastically in the documentary "Defamation", when the ADL "negotiates" with Ukraine.
I also think, Serbia was more aligned to Russia, who drove out some of the most criminal Oligarchs, who now reside in UK. ;)

Very interesting because I never really understood the reasons and did not know much about the backgrounds.

Would be worth a thread on its own.

There are also prophecies that the next ww will start on the Balkans.

Thanks, Tinyint.

eternal_spirit
31-10-2010, 02:40 PM
Still no word on Stalin and the bolshevist murder horde? I learned at school the wehrmacht did Katyn.

http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/katyn/spisok.shtml

http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rusarchives.ru%2Fpubl ication%2Fkatyn%2Fspisok.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

No word on Stalin's order 0428, from 17.11.1941?

See "Archiv Serie 429, Rolle 461, Generalstab des Heeres, Abtlg. Fremde Heere Ost II H 3/70 Fr 6439568", National Archives Washington!

Fremde Heere Ost, thats Gehlen & the CIA after the war.






The recent publication of Orwell's list has provoked accusations that he betrayed his friends and his Socialist principles, and played the role of Big Brother. But when the list is seen in the political context of 1949, his behaviour seems necessary, even commendable. It's important to remember that though Orwell hated Communism (and Nineteen Eighty-Four was in part an attack on the Russian dictatorship), he strongly supported civil rights and protested against the purge of Communists from the British Civil Service...
Orwell was still furious about the Russians' slaughter of 15,000 Poles at Katyn, Starobielsk and other prison camps, about the British government's attempt to cover it up and about his inability to find a British publisher for Joseph Czapski's Souvenirs de Starobielsk (1945), which documented these massacres. In the spring of 1949, as the Cold War intensified and opposition hardened on both sides of the Iron Curtain, Berlin was blockaded by the Russians and the West conducted a massive airlift to maintain life in their sectors of the city. In sensational espionage cases of the late 1940s, Dr Alan Nunn May and Klaus Fuchs had been caught betraying atomic secrets to the Soviet Union. Russia realized Orwell's great fear by exploding its first atomic bomb in 1949. In April NATO was formed and in May 1949 Chinese Communists drove the Nationalists off the mainland of China and won the long civil war. Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia were beginning to form.
As Robert Conquest, a leading authority on the Soviet Union, recently wrote: "The charge thus amounts simply to his having made available to an agency of his own government his honest, if not infallible, opinion of the political attitudes of a number of members of the Western intelligentsia to a despotic power hostile to it and its principles." By doing so, the long-standing anti-Communist Orwell did his patriotic duty. The people on his list could not have sold atomic secrets and posed no danger to Western security, but they were certainly not suited to write pro-British propaganda. As he wrote in June 1949, when clarifying the ideas of Nineteen Eighty-Four: 'I believe that totalitarian ideas have taken root in the minds of intellectuals everywhere, and I have tried to draw these ideas out to their logical consequences. The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English speaking races are not innately better than anyone else and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere.'".
end quoting from Orwell: Wintry Conscience of a Generation, by Jeffrey Meyers
I hope people now understand why Orwell provided the so-called "Commie list" to his friend in the British government. It was common knowledge to thinking people then, as now, that Communists ALWAYS attempt to infiltrate legitimate organizations in order to undermine and implode them from within. Who better to ask for names than a man like Orwell who had dedicated his life to exposing Totalitarianism wherever he saw it. Did the Communists expect the writer of Homage to Catalonia; The Road to Wigan Pier; Burmese Days; Animal Farm and 1984 to plead ignorance and keep his mouth shut? If so, I know a London bridge they might want to buy. ~ Jackie Jura
Appendix III in Meyer's book closes with the following on page 336:

"...The political battle-lines of the 1930s have endured into the 1990s. Hard-liners still believe it's ethical to lie in the service of Communism... They continue to repeat what Orwell in 1940 called 'the smelly little orthodoxies which are now contending for our souls.'"
Go to COMMUNIST CRIMES EXPOSED (http://www.orwelltoday.com/commexposed.shtml)


ORWELL'S CRYPTO-COMMIE LIST

The intellectual establishment condemn Orwell for making a list of people he suspected of being Communists or having Communist leanings ("fellow-travellers") and giving it to the British government.
When Animal Farm and 1984 were published the books received violent reviews from the left-wing press. Critics called Orwell every name in the book including "maggot, octopus, hyena and swine". These attacks made Orwell feel that he must have struck home.
http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellbookexec.shtml




COMMUNIST CRIMES EXPOSED

Today in the news [November 2002] it is reported that for the first time a trial is being conducted (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/11/26/weston26.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/11/26/ixworld.html) against members of Stalin's secret police who, after the war, rounded up civilians for torture, death or exile to the Gulag*. One of the people giving evidence says: "This is not about punishment, but the people who did this must be labelled as guilty. They have shown no remorse and that makes me very angry. The Germans committed crimes and they have paid for them. But with the Russians, it's as if we can't even raise the subject".
This is very true. It is only now that mainstream criticism is starting to seep out about the reality of Communism. A recent book by Martin Amis, the son of an establishment writer, entitled KOBA THE DREAD, was described by the Los Angeles Times as "a powerful treatise on the almost unbelievable monstrosity of Stalin's 30-year rule." And another book by Antony Beevor entitled BERLIN, THE DOWNFALL, 1945, describes "a side of the Soviet Union which is rarely told... a story of frenzied violence and mass rape committed against civilian populations... 'virtually every woman left behind in East German territory is being raped by Red Army troops'...officers who tried to impose discipline were either shot down by their own troops or even were accused of bourgeois humanism and pity for the enemy, which was almost tantamount to treason"
The suppression of truth regarding the horrors of life under Communism is nothing new. Orwell met the same obstacles in almost every book he ever attempted to publish, because of his "unorthodox" or, as we now say, "politically incorrect" views.
Prior to WWII Orwell opposed going to war against Germany. After WWII he was against Jewish control of Palestine. This put him in the bad books with Communists AND Capitalists, just like his stance against Franco in the Spanish Civil War offended the Fascists and his book BURMESE DAYS offended the Imperialists. Even the so-called Socialists turned against him for his mockery of them in WIGAN'S PIER.
Orwell was disgusted by the dichotomy between what the peoples' political parties pretended to be and what they actually were. He was especially concerned with the cover-up of the true nature of life behind Stalin's Iron Curtain that was perpetrated by the governments of the western-world both during and after the war. This became all too obvious with their attempts to censor and/or suppress the publication of his books both in England and abroad. ~ Jackie Jura
STALIN'S LIAR IN NEW YORK (http://www.orwelltoday.com/stalinliar.shtml) (got Pultzer Prize for denying Soviet starvation & gulags). CalgarySun, May 20, 2003. Go to 17.Falsification of Past
Berliners cry for Baghdad (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=834&ncid=731&e=10&u=/nm/20030322/wl_india_nm/india_109058) (remembering own bombardment). Yahoo!Reuters, Mar 22, 2003. Go to 13.Weapons (http://www.orwelltoday.com/weapons.shtml) & Story of Berlin (http://www.scrapbookpages.com/EasternGermany/Berlin/) & JFK IN BERLIN (http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkbrandenburg.shtml)
WHO IS EMMANUEL GOLDSTEIN? (http://www.orwelltoday.com/goldstein.shtml)
ORWELL'S PUBLISHING PROBLEMS (http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellpubprob.shtml)
*Russia's secret police on trial (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/11/26/weston26.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/11/26/ixworld.html) (Estonia first in speaking for Stalin's 60-million victims). Telegraph, Nov 26, 2002. Go to 17.Falsification of Past
RUSSIA: NEW BOOK SHOWS DARK SIDE OF RED ARMY'S LIBERATION OF GERMANY (http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/05/08052002104901.asp) (book review of BERLIN: THE DOWNFALL, 1945)
SNAPSHOT OF STALIN (http://www.orwelltoday.com/stalinbook.shtml) (book review of Koba The Dread)
ANOTHER SNAPSHOT OF STALIN (http://www.orwelltoday.com/stalinbook2.shtml) (another book review of Koba The Dread)
WORDS OF WARNING TO WESTERN WORLD (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles7/SolzhenitsynWarning.php), by Aleksandr L. Solzhenitsyn (...Then, Karl Radek, whom you may have heard of, who was a very resourceful wit, said: "Vladimir Ilyich, but where are we going to get enough rope to hang the whole bourgeoisie?" Lenin effortlessly replied, "They'll supply us with it."...)

ORWELL'S UTOPIA (http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellutopia.shtml) (describes what Orwell understood to be "Democratic Socialism")

eternal_spirit
31-10-2010, 03:36 PM
No Escape For Gulag's
Former Prisoners
By Julius Strauss
The Telegraph - UK
1-3-4


More Than 50 Years After They Were Deported By Stalin, Hundreds Of Freed Inmates Remain Trapped In The Frozen North

VORKUTA -- When Lidya Wittman was 20 years old she was loaded into a railway goods wagon in central Russia and shipped to a gulag in the Arctic.

It was 1943, the Soviet Union was locked in a fight to the death with Hitler's army, and her crime was to be an ethnic German.

Vorkuta was the last of Stalin's infamous gulags and its name still resonates with menace for older Russians.

Women such as Mrs Wittman were treated like slaves, laying railway lines and toiling without wages in mines and factories. The camp closed in 1962, but decades later thousands of former inmates are still marooned in the decrepit northern settlement.

To get to where she lives from the nearest shop or bus stop in Vorkuta, Mrs Wittman, now 80, must hobble for more than half an hour down a frozen, rutted road. The temperature is minus 10C and a biting wind whips up the snow. "I've been here for 60 years," she said. "I'd leave tomorrow if I could."

After their release, most of the women tried to return to their homes in Ukraine, the Baltic States and central Russia. But the harsh Soviet registration system meant that as former "enemies of the state" they were barred from migrating.

Their only option was to stay and find work, sometimes in the very mines and factories they had been slaving in before their release.

When communism fell, the restrictions were gradually lifted. But by then hyperinflation had wiped out the former inmates' life savings, making an expensive move south all but impossible.

Today there are 40,000 pensioners in Vorkuta. Memorial, a Russian charity that compiles statistics on the Stalinist era, estimates that as many as four out of five are trapped former gulag inmates, or their descendants.

Even in the context of the times, the suffering at the Vorkuta camps was extreme. In the winter, temperatures on the tundra can drop to minus 50C.

Inmates were provided with ill-fitting, poor quality clothes and forced to work 12 or 14 hours a day on a starvation ration. During the 1940s and 1950s a million prisoners passed through the Vorkuta gulags, according to Memorial.

At least 100,000, perhaps many more, died. They were buried in the rock-hard permafrost or simply left by the roadside to be covered by snow.

"For 15 years I shovelled coal into the furnaces," said Mrs Wittman, who still speaks faultless German, but poor Russian.

"At night we used to sleep on hard wooden shelves. So many people died of hunger and cold."

When she was released, like thousands of others she was barred from leaving Vorkuta. Eventually she got a job as a cleaner in a mine.

Later she married another former gulag inmate, also an ethnic German, and they lived together until he died 17 years ago. Today she lives with her son. "This is what Stalin did to me," she said. "I know I can't undo the past, but I'd move to the south if only I had the money."

Yaroslav Volagodsky, 73, a Ukrainian, is another former gulag inmate trapped in Vorkuta. He was charged with "anti-Soviet activities" as a young man and given a 10-year sentence.

"You can't imagine what it was like," he said, tears running down his face. "We had no proper winter clothes, our boots were full of holes and to eat we had crushed, salted fish and a small, frozen potato a day. All my teeth fell out because of lack of vitamins.

"They made us work 14 hours a day in the mines and many men simply died. At night we slept with our clothes on, on a mattress stuffed with wood chips."

Mine 29, where Mr Volagodsky was interned, was notorious for its brutality. When in the summer of 1953 a wave of strikes swept the Soviet gulags, the inmates of Mine 29 joined in.

Four days later, on Aug 1, hundreds of troops surrounded the camp and opened fire, killing at least 53, and injuring hundreds.

Mr Volagodsky was hit in the leg and the ear, but survived. Afterwards he was forced to build coffins and dig graves for his dead colleagues.

Today there is little left of Mine 29. Only some broken brickwork around the shaft entrance marks where it once stood.

A memorial has been put up nearby by relatives of Lithuanians who died there. But the camp itself is unmarked, a mass of broken wooden beams not far from an old railway line.

When, in 1957, Mr Volagodsky was finally released he was refused permission to return home. Later he was told that he could return, but his wife, also a Ukrainian former gulag inmate, could not, so he remained.

"For 50 years this place has been like a coffin for me," he said. "I have no money to go and the local authorities tell me I don't qualify for help."

Yevgenia Khaidarova of Memorial said: "These people would all leave tomorrow if they could. But they haven't the means.

"For years Vorkuta was a political gulag. Today it has become an economic gulag."

http://www.rense.com/general47/noescapeforgulag.htm

eternal_spirit
01-11-2010, 10:08 PM
Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

http://i56.tinypic.com/35cn4g7.jpg

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mr Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history – which has until now remained hidden – has international resonance. "It ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikötter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off.

One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.

Mr Dikötter said that he was once again examining the Party's archives for his next book, The Tragedy of Liberation, which will deal with the bloody advent of Communism in China from 1944 to 1957.

He said the archives were already illuminating the extent of the atrocities of the period; one piece of evidence revealed that 13,000 opponents of the new regime were killed in one region alone, in just three weeks. "We know the outline of what went on but I will be looking into precisely what happened in this period, how it happened, and the human experiences behind the history," he said.

Mr Dikötter, who teaches at the University of Hong Kong, said while it was difficult for any historian in China to write books that are critical of Mao, he felt he could not collude with the "conspiracy of silence" in what the Chinese rural community had suffered in recent history.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-2081630.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html)

eternal_spirit
01-11-2010, 11:40 PM
Stalin's Brother-In-Law
http://www.jewwatch.com/images/Kaganovich.jpg
Lazar Kaganovich: Stalin's Mass Murderer
American Times Today

Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich (Kogan), of Jewish descent, was born in Kubany, near Kiev, Ukraine, in 1893. In 1911 he joined the Jewish-founded Communist Party and became involved with the Bolsheviks (Lower East Side New York Jews). Kaganovich took an active part in the 1917 takeover of Christian Russia by Communism and rose rapidly in the Party hierarchy.

Josef Stalin (Dzhugashvili) altered census figures to hide the millions of famine deaths when the Ukraine and northern Caucasus region had an extremely poor harvest in 1932, just as Stalin was demanding heavy requisitions of grain to sell abroad to finance his industrialization program which was on top of enforced collective farming of 1929. Stalin is conservatively estimated to have been responsible for the murder and/or starvation of 40,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians during his reign of terror, while the total deaths resulting from the de-kulaklization and famine, by way of Kaganovich, can be conservatively estimated at about 14,500,000.

On any analysis, Kaganovich, was one of the worst mass murderers in history, and little wonder that during World War II large numbers of Ukrainians greeted the Germans as liberators, with many joining the Waffen-SS to keep Communism from enslaving all of Europe.
lot's more here
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-kaganovich.html

eternal_spirit
02-11-2010, 12:14 AM
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-communists.html

tinyint
02-11-2010, 12:25 AM
The death of Lincoln was a disaster for Christianity*.
There was no man in the US great enough to wear his boots.
I fear that foreign bankers with their tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it systematically to corrupt modern civilization.
They will not hesitate to plunge the whole Christianity* into wars and chaos in order that the earth should become their inheritance.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059378504&postcount=10

tinyint
02-11-2010, 10:51 AM
Goebbels on bolshevism1943
(en) Goebbels Rede über Bolschewismus 1943 - YouTube

tinyint
02-11-2010, 01:11 PM
Goebbels on bolshevism1943
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSEfkIaT1s&NR=1


We tried to open their eyes to the danger from Eastern Boslhevism, which had subjected a nation of nearly 200 million people to the terror of Jewry and was preparing an aggressive war against Europe.
<...>
The goal of Bolshevism is Jewish world revolution.
It wants to bring chaos to the Reich and Europe, using the resulting hopelessness and desperation to establish an international, Bolshevist-concealed capitalist tyranny.
<...>
Behind the oncoming Soviet divisions we see the Jewish liquidation commandos, and behind them terror, the specter of mass starvation, and a complete anarchy in Europe.
<...>
International Jewry is the devilish ferment of decomposition that finds cynical satisfaction in plunging the world into the deepest chaos and destroying ancient cultures that it played no role in building.
<...>
When my audience spontaneously cheered on January 30, the English-American -- in other words, the Jewish press reported the next day that it was all a propaganda theater that did not represent the true opinion of the German people, which the Jews know better than we do.
<...>
Things have gone so far in Europe that one cannot call a danger a danger when it is caused by Jewry. That does not stop us National Socialists from drawing the necessary conclusions.
We have never been afraid of the Jews, and are even less afraid today.
<...>
Jewry has so deeply infected the Anglo-Saxon states both spiritually and politically that they are no longer have the ability to see or accept the danger. It conceals itself as Bolshevism in the Soviet Union, and plutocratic-capitalism in the Anglo-Saxon states.
<...>
The hand of the pseudo-civilized Jewry of Western Europe shakes the hand of the Jewry of the Eastern ghettos over Germany. Europe is in deadly danger, even if the English do not want to admit it.
<...>
We National Socialist have the duty to sound the alarm against International Jewry's attempt to plunge the European continent into chaos, and to warn that Jewry has in Bolshevism a terroristic military power whose danger cannot be overestimated.
<...>
The soviet Union over the last 25 years built up Bolshevism's military potential to an unimaginable degree, and one we falsy evaluated.
Terrorist Jewry had 200 million people to serve it in Russia. It cynically used its methods on to create out of the solid toughness of the Russian people a grave danger for the civilized nations of Europe. A whole nation in the East was driven to battle. Men, women, and even children are employed not only in armament factories, but in the war itself.
<...>
We see Jewry as a direct threat to every nation. We do not care what other peoples do about the danger. What we do to defend ourselves in our own business, however, and we will not tolerate objections from others.


It strikes me, nowadays, this is called in pc "truther" language NWO, but Shhh!

luciferhorus
02-11-2010, 01:26 PM
Goebbels on bolshevism1943
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSEfkIaT1s&NR=1

On Judeao Communism.

Lucifer 2010

http://bitsblog.florack.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lenin.jpg

"There the great world-progressive features of Jewish culture stand clearly revealed: its internationalism, its identification with the advanced movements of the epoch (the percentage of Jews in the democratic and proletarian movements is everywhere higher than the percentage of Jews among the population)."
-- Lenin, Vladimir Ilich

Certainly there was a significant Jewish contingent among the Bolsheviks, including Lenin and Trotsky; the idea of overthrowing a state with a long history of Jewish persecution was attractive to the Jewish Community in Russia. However, the Bolsheviks, despite the strong Jewish presence among them, were entirely opposed to the Jewish religion which was considered a primitive remnant of the past and entirely reactionary (anti-revolutionary) and regressive, as opposed to "progressive."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fileadmin/historyLearningSite/trotsky.jpg

Despite statements by Stalin denouncing anti-Jewish behaviour and attitudes in Russia, the persecution of the Jews continued under Stalin's regime; Goebbels' propaganda that Stalinist Russia represented Judeao Communismmm was entirely anachronistic (out of historical context), since with the death of Lenin, Bolshevism transformed into the tyranny of Stalinism which was generally opposed internationally by the Judeao Communists, notably by Trotsky (who was evangelically antStalinistst anconsidereded Stalin a betrayer of the Revolution), who referred to Stalin as having set up his own "personal dictatorship;" it was almost certainly due to the continued opposition of Trotsky against Stalin that Stalin has Trotsky assassinated in Mexico in 1940.

Judeao Communism was and still as a living phenomenon, however it is an internationalist phenomenon which has nothing to do with nationalism or Jewish cultural identity. Internationally ideological Communists share the same kind of camaraderie, regardless of race or culture that some religious Jews, Muslims & Christians do; we simply share an ideological alliance.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/may2008/Children_of_the_Sun.jpg

Judeao Communism played an important role in Palestine with the founding of the Kibbutz movement at the beginning of the 20th century (Kibbutz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). In the 21st century, such collectivist projects are certainly the most successful form of collectivism with the highest standard of living of any of the many collectivist projects in the world, and a model for future global collectivism and agricultural and technological revolution; the Cuban model also stands out for praise, and as a model for the future of humankind, however the standard of living on the Israeli collectives is unparalleled. Unfortunately the "Communist" nature of Israeli collectives has been subject to changes in recent years with many Kibbutzim being transformed into Capitalist collectives where wages are paid; never the less the model remains an ideal for many Communists and Judaeo Communists.

The 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution. Revolutionary War then "Swords to Ploughshares."

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Dm4Xx59f6NM/Ssz_WsuRM9I/AAAAAAAADOI/xX_8R6fiAV8/s400/military_woman_israel_army_000593.jpg_530.jpg

Although Judaeo Communists generally reject primitive superstitions such as Christianity and religious Judaism, it is clear that the religious fanatic who authored the Biblical "Book of Revelation" considered himself to be a Messianic Jew who predicted the ultimate victory of the Revolutionary Vanguard of Israel (the 144,000 righteous of Israel). It seems very clear for any non Christian, unhypnotised by the false religion of Capitalist Christianity (the Jesus business), that the Book of Revelation predicts an apocalyptic war against the tyranny of global Capitalism, dscribing the "Anti-Christ" as the wealthiest and most militarily powerful Capitalist on earth, who in alliance with other Capitalist powers, seeks economic control of humankind and an economic environment where "none can buy or sell" without his permission or "mark." This is clearly a Capitalist agenda. The prophecy predicts the defeat of the Capitalists and the establishment of the "New Jerusalem," a city of light where there is no poverty or suffering and nothing is bought or sold.

The Non Miraculous Feeding of the 6 Billion.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fiWJRneh4X4/ScwvZ8Qj4MI/AAAAAAAACRw/B0C8IxykCl8/s400/enjoy_capitalism.jpg

It is perhaps a misnomer (false definition) to refer to the New "City" of Jerusalem as a City as the prophecy describes it as having a 1600 mile perimeter where each side of the square city is approximately the distance between Glasgow to London; this is really more the size of a nation state; however modern Communists are generally anti-nationalists and take the position that Communism will never truly be established until the entire world is Communised. Never the less the theme of
peace which follows the defeat of global Capitalism and agricultural revolution is exclusively in the 21st century a Communist agenda which is entirely rejected by Christian Capitalists and the various anti-Communist vermin.

The Final Holocaust. The Day of Judgement. One shall be taken and one shall be left behind. The chaff shall be cast into the fires of the Final Holocaust

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:mM4izYyLV51gFM:http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh112/salaami/Grim_Reaper_Final_Holocaust_380x.jpg&t=1

"(In revolutionary war) to send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate. We must create the pedagogy of the paredón [execution wall]." Che Guevara.

Since Capitalism is a militant and genocidal ideology and the Capitalist state terrorists / narco-terrorists are armed with weapons of mass destruction, I believe that there is no possibility of a peaceful solution to the International Dictatorship of Capitalism. We are currently witnessing "World Capitalist Revolution," the militaristic and imperialistic expansion of Capitalism, the genocide of all militant enemies (including many innocent people), the nuclear poisoning of populations in imperial colonies such as Iraq and Afghanistan which supply the Capitalist narco-terrorists with much needed resources such as opium and oil, and the attempt to totally enslave humankind under the dictatorship of Capitalism.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?2,file=9849,filename=washington404_674922 c.jpg

Militant genocidal evil can only be eradicated by militant, genocidal opposition. There is simply no other practical solution to the disease of ideological Capitalism than that of revolutionary anti-Capitalism, as foretold and predicted by many Jewish prophets from Marx, Lenin and the Judeao Communists of the 21st century.

Christian Capitalism / state terrorism / narco-terrorism and Islam are both "militant" and genocidal ideologies, and are currently at war; the necessary process of "sweeping" away such vermin militarily has begun, along with the intellectual process of de-hypnotising and unindoctrinating humankind from centuries of enslavement to the priesthood of organised religion; this is simply the beginning of the end of religion and of Capitalism. This is all entirely necessary for the creations of the conditions for world revolution and the economic salvation of humankind, which must lead to the creation of a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Words are weapons. Propaganda (education)is the first stage of war. Revolutionary propaganda is the first stage of revolutionary war.

The Final Holocaust (of the Capitalists) on the Day (era) of Judgement shall be more terrible, dreadful and wrathful than any other in human history.

Lux
No mercy or quarter on they who deserve none.
Revolution by the Rod of Iron; Fire plague and poisoned waters.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyt68xBL411qau028o1_500.jpg


"The beginnings will not be easy; they shall be extremely difficult. All the oligarchies' powers of repression, all their capacity for brutality and demagoguery will be placed at the service of their cause. Our mission, in the first hour, shall be to survive; later, we shall follow the perennial example of the guerilla, carrying out armed propaganda ... the great lesson of the invincibility of the guerrillas taking root in the dispossessed masses; the galvanizing of the national spirit, the preparation for harder tasks, for resisting even more violent repressions. Hatred as an element of the struggle; a relentless hatred of the enemy, impelling us over and beyond the natural limitations that man is heir to and transforming him into an effective, violent, selective and cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy." Che Guevara.

http://www.therealcuba.com/che_01R.JPG

"Nowhere in the world, in no act of genocide, in no war, are so many people killed per minute, per hour and per day as those who are killed by hunger and poverty on our planet "...FIdel Castro

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/fidel/fidel11.gif
___________________________________

Jews in the revolutionary movement


History of the Jews in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The founder of Hovevei Zion Leon PinskerMany Jews were prominent in Russian revolutionary parties. The idea of overthrowing the Tsarist regime was attractive to many members of the Jewish semi-intelligentsia because of the oppression of non-Russian nations and non-Orthodox Christians within the Russian Empire. For much the same reason, many non-Russians, notably Latvians or Poles, were disproportionately represented in the party leaderships.

In 1897 General Jewish Labour Bund (The Bund), was formed. Many Jews joined the ranks of two principal revolutionary parties: Socialist-Revolutionary Party and Russian Social Democratic Labour Party - both Bolshevik and Menshevik factions. A notable number of Bolshevik party members were ethnically Jewish, especially in the leadership of the party, and the percentage of Jewish party members among the rival Mensheviks was even higher. Both the founders and leaders of Menshevik faction, Julius Martov and Pavel Axelrod were Jewish.

Because some of the leading Bolsheviks were ethnic Jews, and Bolshevism supports a policy of promoting international proletarian revolution— most notably in the case of Leon Trotsky— many enemies of Bolshevism, as well as contemporary anti-semites, draw a picture of Communism as a political slur at Jews and accuse Jews of pursuing Bolshevism to benefit Jewish interests, reflected in the terms "Jewish Bolshevism" or "Judeo-Bolshevism" [source/citation needed]. The original atheistic and internationalistic ideology of the Bolsheviks (See proletarian internationalism, bourgeois nationalism) was incompatible with Jewish traditionalism. Bolsheviks such as Trotsky echoed sentiments which dismissed Jewish heritage, in place of "internationalism."

Soon after seizing power, the Bolsheviks established the Yevsektsiya, the Jewish section of the Communist party in order to destroy the rival Bund and Zionist parties, suppress Judaism and replace traditional Jewish culture with "proletarian culture".[citation needed]

About 450,000 Jewish soldiers served in the Russian army during the World War I,[19] and fought side by side with their Christian fellows. When hundreds of thousands of refugees from Poland and Lithuania, and among them innumerable Jews, fled in terror before enemy invasion and spread over interior of Russia, Pale of Settlement de facto ceased to exist. Most of the education restrictions on the Jews were removed with appointment of count Pavel Ignatiev as minister of education.


2nd Congress of Soviets of the Nothern region presidium. In the front row: Moisei Uritsky, Leon Trotsky, Yakov Sverdlov, Grigory Zinoviev, Mikhail Lashevich. 1918.In March 1919, Lenin delivered a speech "On Anti-Jewish Pogroms"[20] on a gramophone disc. Lenin sought to explain the phenomenon of antisemitism in Marxist terms. According to Lenin, antisemitism was an "attempt to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants from the exploiters toward the Jews." Linking antisemitism to class struggle, he argued that it was merely a political technique used by the tsar to exploit religious fanaticism, popularize the despotic, unpopular regime, and divert popular anger toward a scapegoat. The Soviet Union also officially maintained this Marxist-Leninist interpretation under Stalin, who expounded Lenin's critique of antisemitism. However, this did not prevent the widely publicized repressions of Jewish intellectuals during 1948–1953 (see After World War II) when Stalin increasingly associated Jews with "cosmopolitanism" and pro-Americanism.

Such actions, along with extensive Jewish participation among the Bolsheviks, plagued the Communists during the Russian Civil War against the Whites with a reputation of being "a gang of marauding Jews"; Jews comprised a majority in the Communist Central Committee, outnumbering even ethnic Russians. At the same time, the vast majority of Russia's Jews, much like their non-Jewish Russian neighbors, were not in any political party.

Jews were prominent in the Russian Constitutional Democrat Party, Social Democrat Party (Mensheviks) and Socialist-Revolutionary Party. The Russian Anarchist movement also included many prominent Jewish revolutionaries. In Ukraine, Makhnovist anarchist leaders also included several Jews.[21]

The attempts of the socialist Bund to be the sole representative of the Jewish worker in Russia had always conflicted with Lenin's idea of a universal coalition of workers of all nationalities. Like some other socialist parties in Russia, the Bund was initially opposed to the Bolsheviks' seizing of power in 1917 and to the dissolution of the Russian Constituent Assembly. Consequently, the Bund suffered repressions in the first months of the Soviet regime.[citation needed] However, the antisemitism of many Whites during the Russian Civil War caused many if not most Bund members to readily join the Bolsheviks, and most of the factions eventually merged with the Communist Party. The movement did split in three; the Bundist identity survived in interwar Poland, while many Bundists joined the Mensheviks.

In August 1919 Jewish properties, including synagogues, were seized and many Jewish communities were dissolved. The anti-religious laws against all expressions of religion and religious education were being taken out on the Jewish population, just like on other religious groups. Many Rabbis and other religious officials were forced to resign from their posts under the threat of violent persecution. This type of persecution continued on into the 1920s.[22]

In 1921, a large number of Jews opted for Poland, as they were entitled by peace treaty in Riga to choose the country they preferred. Several hundred thousand joined the already numerous Jewish population of Poland.

The chaotic years of World War I, the February and October Revolutions, and the Civil War were fertile ground for the antisemitism that was endemic to tsarist Russia. During the World War, Jews were often accused of sympathizing with Germany and often persecuted.

Pogroms were unleashed throughout the Russian Civil War, perpetrated by virtually every competing faction, from Polish and Ukrainian nationalists to the Red and White Armies.[23] 31,071 civilian Jews were killed during documented pogroms throughout the former Russian Empire; the number of Jewish orphans exceeded 300,000. Majority of pogroms in Ukraine during 1918-1920 were perpetrated by the Ukrainian nationalists, miscellaneous bands and anti-Communist forces.[24]

Perpetrator Number of pogroms or excesses Number murdered Murder in each pogrom [24]
Hryhoriiv's bands 52 3,471 67
Directory 493 16,706 34
White army 213 5,235 25
Miscellaneous bands 307 4,615 15
Red Army 106 725 7
Others 33 185 6
Polish army 32 134 4
Total 1,236 31,071 25

Continuing the policy of the Bolsheviks before the Revolution, Lenin and the Bolshevik Party strongly condemned the pogroms, including official denunciations in 1918 by the Council of People's Commissars. Opposition to the pogroms and to manifestations of Russian antisemitism in this era were complicated by both the official Bolshevik policy of assimilationism towards all national and religious minorities, and concerns about overemphasizing Jewish concerns for fear of exacerbating popular antisemitism, as the White forces were openly identifying the Bolshevik regime with Jews.[25][26][27]

Lenin was intrigued with technology and in 1919 recorded eight of his speeches on gramophone records. Only seven of these were later re-recorded and put on sale. The one suppressed in the Khrushchev era recorded Lenin’s feelings on antisemitism.[28]:

“ The Tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organized pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. … Only the most ignorant and downtrodden people can believe the lies and slander that are spread about the Jews. … It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. Among the Jews there are kulaks, exploiters and capitalists, just as there are among the Russians, and among people of all nations… Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob and disunite the workers… Shame on accursed Tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations.[29] ”

Lenin was supported by the Labor Zionist (Poale Zion) movement, then under the leadership of Marxist theorist Ber Borochov, which was fighting for the creation of a Jewish workers' state in Palestine and also participated in the October Revolution (and in the Soviet political scene afterwards until being banned by Stalin in 1928). While Lenin remained opposed to outward forms of antisemitism (and all forms of racism), allowing Jewish people to rise to the highest offices in both party and state, certain historians such as Dmitri Volkogonov argue that the record of his government in this regard was highly uneven. A former official Soviet historian (turned staunch anti-communist), Volkogonov claims that Lenin was aware of pogroms carried out by units of the Red Army during the war with Poland, particularly those carried out by Semyon Budyonny's troops,[30] though the whole issue was effectively ignored. Volkogonov writes that "While condemning anti-Semitism in general, Lenin was unable to analyze, let alone eradicate, its prevalence in Soviet society".[31] Likewise, the hostility of the Soviet regime towards all religion made no exception for Judaism, and the 1921 campaign against religion saw the seizure of many synagogues (whether this should be regarded as antisemitism is a matter of definition – since Orthodox churches received the same treatment).

Yet, according to Jewish historian Zvi Gitelman: "Never before in Russian history — and never subsequently has a government made such an effort to uproot and stamp out antisemitism".[32]

At the same time, the economic position of the Jewish population in USSR was not good. Soviet laws offered hardly any economic independence to artisans, and none whatever to traders. For many Jewish artisans and tradesmen, Soviet policies led to loss of their property and trade. On the other hand, thousands of Jewish semi-intellectuals and social failures have tested unlimited, uncensored power by joining the communist party and soviet bureaucracy.

According to the census of 1926, total number of Jews in USSR was 2,672,398 – of whom 59% lived in Ukrainian SSR, 15,2% in Byelorussian SSR, 22% in Russian SFSR and 3,8% in other Soviet republics.

[edit] Soviet Union before World War II

Poet Osip Madelstam after his first arrest.
Poet Boris Pasternak, spared by Stalin with the words "Let this cloud dweller be!"[33]
Jewish Autonomous Oblast on the map of RussiaRussian Jews were long considered a non-native Semitic ethnicity within a Slavic Russia, and such categorization was solidified when ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union were categorized according to ethnicity (национальность). In his 1913 theoretical work Marxism and the National Question Stalin described Jews as "not a living and active nation, but something mystical, intangible and supernatural. For, I repeat, what sort of nation, for instance, is a Jewish nation which consists of Georgian, Daghestanian, Russian, American and other Jews, the members of which do not understand each other (since they speak different languages), inhabit different parts of the globe, will never see each other, and will never act together, whether in time of peace or in time of war?!"[34] According to Stalin, who became the People's Commissar for Nationalities Affairs after the revolution, to qualify as a nation, a minority was required to have a culture, a language, and a homeland.

To offset the growing Jewish national and religious aspirations of Zionism and to successfully categorize Soviet Jews under Stalin's definition of nationality, an alternative to the Land of Israel was established with the help of Komzet and OZET in 1928. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast with the center in Birobidzhan in the Russian Far East was to become a "Soviet Zion".[35]

The Soviet authorities considered the use of Hebrew language "reactionary" since it was associated with both Judaism and Zionism, and the teaching of Hebrew at primary and secondary schools was officially banned by the Narkompros (Commissariat of Education) as early as 1919, as part of an overall agenda aiming to secularize education.[36] Hebrew books and periodicals ceased to be published and were seized from the libraries, although liturgical texts were still published until the 1930s. Despite numerous protests in the West,[37] teachers and students who attempted to study the Hebrew language were pilloried and sentenced for "counter revolutionary" and later for "anti-Soviet" activities.

Yiddish, rather than Hebrew, would be the national language, and proletarian socialist literature and arts would replace Judaism as the quintessence of culture. Despite a massive domestic and international state propaganda campaign, the Jewish population in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast never reached 30% (as of 2003 it was only about 1.2%[38]). The experiment ground to a halt in the mid-1930s, during Stalin's first campaign of purges. Jewish leaders were arrested and executed,[citation needed] and Yiddish schools were shut down.

In his January 12, 1931 letter "Antisemitism: Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States" Stalin officially condemned antisemitism:

In answer to your inquiry: National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Antisemitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism. Antisemitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Antisemitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of antisemitism. In the U.S.S.R. antisemitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active antisemites are liable to the death penalty.[39]

In 1936 Pravda, the party's newspaper and main propaganda organ, printed a beneficial explanation of the vile nature of antisemitism. It stated that "national and racial chauvinism is a survival of the barbarous practices of the cannibalistic period... it served the exploiters... to protect capitalism from the attack of the working class; antisemitism, a phenomenon profoundly hostile to the Soviet Union, is repressed in the USSR."

The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact—the 1939 non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany—created further suspicion regarding the Soviet Union's position toward Jews. According to the pact Poland, the nation with the world's largest Jewish population, was divided between Germany and the Soviet Union in September 1939. While the pact had no basis in ideological sympathy (as evidenced by Nazi propaganda about "Jewish Bolshevism"), Germany's occupation of Western Poland was a disaster for Eastern European Jews. Evidence suggests that some, at least, of the Jews in the Eastern Soviet zone of occupation welcomed the Russians as having a more liberated policy towards their civil rights than the preceding antisemitic Polish regime.[40] Jews in areas annexed by Soviet Union were deported Eastward in great waves; as these areas would soon be invaded by Nazi Germany, this forced migration, deplored by many of its victims, paradoxically also saved the lives of a few hundred thousand Jewish deportees.

Many Jews fell victim to The Great Purges, although there is no evidence that Jews were specifically targeted by Stalin. A number of the most prominent victims of the Purges—Trotsky, Zinoviev, and Kamenev, to name a few—were ethnic Jews, but Stalin was just as brutal when acting against his real or imagined enemies who were not Jewish—e.g., Bukharin, Tukhachevsky, Kirov, and Ordzhonikidze.

Jews who escaped the purges include Lazar Kaganovich, who came to Stalin's attention in the 1920s as a successful bureaucrat in Tashkent and participated in the purges of the 1930s. Kaganovich's loyalty endured even after Stalin's death, when he and Molotov were expelled from the party ranks in 1957 due to their opposition to destalinization.

Beyond longstanding controversies, ranging from the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to anti-Zionism, the Soviet Union did grant official "equality of all citizens regardless of status, sex, race, religion, and nationality." The years before the Holocaust were an era of rapid change for Soviet Jews, leaving behind the dreadful poverty of the Pale of Settlement. Forty percent of the population in the former Pale left for large cities within the USSR.

Emphasis on education and movement from countryside shtetls to newly industrialized cities allowed many Soviet Jews to enjoy overall advances under Stalin and to become one of the most educated population groups in the world.

Because of Stalinist emphasis on its urban population, interwar migration inadvertently rescued countless Soviet Jews; Nazi Germany penetrated the entire former Jewish Pale—but were kilometers short of Leningrad and Moscow. The migration of many Jews farther East from the Jewish Pale, which would become occupied by Nazi Germany, saved at least 40 percent of the Pale's original Jewish population.

The Holocaust
Main articles: Holocaust in Russia and The Holocaust
Over two million Soviet Jews are believed to have died during the Holocaust, second only to the number of Polish Jews to have fallen victims to Hitler. Among some of the larger massacres in 1941 were: 33,771 Jews of Kiev shot in ditches at Babi Yar; 100,000 Jews and Poles of Vilnius killed in the forests of Ponary, 20,000 Jews killed in Kharkiv at Drobnitzky Yar, 36,000 Jews machine-gunned in Odessa, 25,000 Jews of Riga killed in the woods at Rumbula, and 10,000 Jews slaughtered in Simferopol in the Crimea.[citation needed] Though mass shootings continued through 1942, most notably 16,000 Jews shot at Pinsk, Jews were increasingly shipped to concentration camps in German Nazi-occupied Poland.

Local residents of German-occupied areas, especially Ukrainians, Lithuanians, and Latvians, sometimes played key roles in the genocide of other Latvians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals and Jews alike. Under the Nazi occupation, some members of the Ukrainian and Latvian Nazi police carried out deportations in the Warsaw Ghetto, and Lithuanians marched Jews to their death at Ponary. Even as some assisted the Germans, a significant number of individuals in the territories under German control also helped Jews escape death (see Righteous Among the Nations). In Latvia, particularly, the number of Nazi-collaborators was only slightly more than that of Jewish saviours. It is estimated that up to 1.4 million Jews fought in Allied armies; 40% of them in the Red Army.[41] In total, at least 142 500 Soviet soldiers of Jewish nationality lost their lives fighting against the German invaders and their allies[42]


1946. The official response to an inquiry by JAC about the military decorations of Jews during the war (1.8% of the total number). Some antisemites attempted to accuse Jews of lack of patriotism and of hiding from military serviceThe typical Soviet policy regarding the Holocaust was to present it as atrocities against Soviet citizens, not emphasizing the genocide of the Jews. For example, after the liberation of Kiev from the Nazi occupation, the Extraordinary State Commission (Чрезвычайная Государственная Комиссия) was set out to investigate Nazi crimes. The description of the Babi Yar massacre was officially censored as follows:[43]

Draft report (December 25, 1943) Censored version (February 1944)
"The Hitlerist bandits committed mass murder of the Jewish population. They announced that on September 29, 1941, all the Jews were required to arrive to the corner of Melnikov and Dokterev streets and bring their documents, money and valuables. The butchers marched them to Babi Yar, took away their belongings, then shot them."
"The Hitlerist bandits brought thousands of civilians to the corner of Melnikov and Dokterev streets. The butchers marched them to Babi Yar, took away their belongings, then shot them."


See also: Vasily Grossman, Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, and Black Book (World War II)
[edit] Stalinist antisemitic campaigns
Main articles: Stalinism and antisemitism and Antisemitism in the Soviet Union

Solomon MikhoelsIn January 1948 Solomon Mikhoels, a popular actor-director of the Moscow State Jewish Theater and the chairman of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, was killed in a suspicious car accident.[44] Mass arrests of prominent Jewish intellectuals and suppression of Jewish culture followed under the banners of campaign against "rootless cosmopolitans" and anti-Zionism. On August 12, 1952, in the event known as the Night of the Murdered Poets, thirteen most prominent Yiddish writers, poets, actors and other intellectuals were executed on the orders of Joseph Stalin, among them Peretz Markish, Leib Kvitko, David Hofstein, Itzik Feffer and David Bergelson.[45] In the 1955 UN Assembly's session a high Soviet official still denied the "rumors" about their disappearance.

The Doctors' plot allegation in 1953 was a deliberately antisemitic policy: Stalin targeted "corrupt Jewish bourgeois nationalists," eschewing the usual code words like "cosmopolitans." Stalin died, however, before this next wave of arrests and executions could be launched in earnest. A number of historians claim that the Doctors' plot was intended as the opening of a campaign that would have resulted in the mass deportation of Soviet Jews had Stalin not died on March 5, 1953. Days after Stalin's death the plot was declared a hoax by the Soviet government.

These cases may have reflected Stalin's paranoia, rather than state ideology — a distinction that made no practical difference as long as Stalin was alive, but which became salient on his death.

In April 1956, the Warsaw Yiddish language Jewish newspaper Folkshtimme published sensational long lists of Soviet Jews who had perished before and after the Holocaust. The world press began demanding answers from Soviet leaders, as well as inquire about current condition of Jewish education system and culture. The same autumn, a group of leading Jewish world figures publicly requested the heads of Soviet state to clarify the situation. Since no cohesive answer was received, their concern was only heightened. The fate of Soviet Jews emerged as a major human rights issue in the West."

History of the Jews in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

eternal_spirit
02-11-2010, 02:47 PM
The Genocide at Vinnitsa by Dr. William Pierce National Alliance Chairman In His Speech Given On Radio On June 20, 1998
We spoke a few weeks ago about the mass murder of the leadership stratum of the Polish nation by the Soviet secret police in the Katyn Forest in April 1940.


We discussed that genocidal atrocity in the light of the ongoing Jewish campaign to portray Jews as the principal victims of the Second World War and to collect reparations from the rest of the world today.



A good deal of interest in that broadcast was expressed by listeners, many of whom had not been acquainted previously with the facts of the Katyn atrocity. Today I will explore this general subject further. I will tell you about the fate of the Ukrainian nation at the hands of the Soviet secret police.




In 1943 Germany was at war against the Soviet Union. Twenty-five years earlier, at the end of the First World War, when communist revolutionaries were attempting to take over Germany, Adolf Hitler had sworn to devote his life to fighting communism. He was only a corporal at the time, recuperating from his war wounds in a military hospital, but 15 years later, in 1933, he became chancellor of Germany, and in 1941 his army invaded the Soviet Union with the aim of destroying Soviet communism.



The German Army pushed far into the Soviet empire and liberated all of Ukraine from the communists.
In May 1943 units of the German Army were stationed in the Ukrainian city of Vinnitsa, a community of 100,000 persons in a primarily agricultural district.



Ukrainian officials in Vinnitsa told the Germans that five years earlier the NKVD -- the Soviet secret police, very similar to our FBI -- had buried the bodies of a number of executed political prisoners in a city park. The Germans investigated, and within a month they had dug up 9439 corpses from a number of mass graves in the park and a nearby orchard.


Unlike the Poles murdered in the Katyn Forest, all of these bodies found at Vinnitsa were those of civilians, most of them Ukrainian farmers or workers.



The bodies of the men all had their hands tied behind their backs, like the Polish officers at Katyn. Although the men's bodies were clothed, the bodies of a number of young women were naked. All of the victims had been shot in the back of the neck with a .22 caliber pistol, the trademark of the NKVD executioners.
The Germans called in an international team of forensic pathologists to examine the bodies and the mass graves. The international team, which included pathologists from Belgium, France, Netherlands, and Sweden, as well as from several countries allied with Germany, examined 95 mass graves and conducted a number of autopsies.


Including the autopsies already performed by Ukrainian medical personnel in Vinnitsa, 1670 of the corpses were examined in detail. The identities of 679 of them were established either through documents found in their clothes or through recognition by relatives, who flocked to Vinnitsa from the surrounding countryside when they heard that the graves had been uncovered.
The authorities estimated that in addition to the 9439 bodies exhumed, there were another 3,000 still in unopened mass graves in the same area. The international team concluded that all of the victims had been killed about five years earlier -- that is, in 1938.


Relatives of the victims who were identified all testified that the victims had been arrested by the NKVD in 1937 and 1938. The relatives had been told that those arrested were "enemies of the people" and would be sent to Siberia for 10 years. None of the relatives had any idea what the reason was for the arrests and testified that those arrested had committed no crimes and were engaged in no political activity. As I said earlier, nearly all of the victims were farmers or workers, although there were a few priests and civil servants among them.


By interviewing a large number of people who had some knowledge of what had happened in Vinnitsa and the surrounding region in 1938, the Germans were able to piece together the following picture. In 1937 and 1938 gangs of the NKVD's jackbooted thugs roamed the villages and towns of Ukraine, arresting people in a pattern that seemed almost random to observers.


One victim's wife reported that as the NKVD goons dragged her husband away they said only, "Hey, you dog! You've lived too long." Other observers thought they saw a pattern.


A Ukrainian who was renting a part of his house to a Jewish lawyer refused to sell the whole house to the Jew when he offered to buy it at an unreasonably low price. A few weeks later the Ukrainian homeowner was arrested by the NKVD. Another Ukrainian who had threatened to beat up a minor communist functionary who made a crude pass at his sister was arrested shortly thereafter.



It seemed that many of the arrests were the settling of personal scores and that anyone who had crossed a Jew was especially likely to be arrested.


All of this was nothing new for Ukrainians. They had borne the brunt of the communization the Soviet Union for nearly two decades. Ukraine was primarily an agricultural nation, a nation of farmers and villagers, and as such was regarded with suspicion by the Jews and the urban rabble who filled the ranks of the Communist Party.



The communists championed the urban workers, but they wasted no love on farmers and villagers, who tended to be too independent and self-sufficient for communist tastes.


During the civil war which followed the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the Ukrainians wanted to opt out. Ukrainian nationalists wanted no part of the Soviet Union. In 1921 and 1922 the Red Army occupied Vinnitsa, and Ukrainians were butchered wholesale by the Reds in order to kill the Ukrainian nationalist spirit.



The craving for Ukrainian independence nevertheless kept flaring up, and further massacres followed, notably in 1928.


Ukraine was the stronghold of the kulaks, the independent farmers and small landowners, always regarded with special hatred by the communist bosses. Stalin gave the job of exterminating the kulaks to his right-hand man in the Kremlin, Lazar Moiseivich Kaganovich, known later as the "Butcher of Ukraine." Kaganovich, the most powerful Jew in the Soviet Union,



supervised the collectivization of Ukrainian farms, beginning in 1929. To break the spirit of the kulaks, the Ukraine was subjected to an artificial famine. The NKVD and Red Army troops went from farm to farm, confiscating crops and livestock. The farmers were told that the food was needed for the workers in the cities. None was left for the farmers. And in 1933 and 1934 seven million Ukrainians died of starvation, while Kaganovich watched and gloated from the Kremlin.



Perhaps in 1937 and 1938 the bosses in the Kremlin simply thought that it was time to apply the lash to the Ukrainians again. In any event, the NKVD was given the task this time. The NKVD was even more Jewish than the rest of the Soviet communist apparatus. The commissar of the NKVD until September 1936 had been the Jew Genrikh Yagoda, and he had staffed his instrument of terror and repression with Jews at every level.



And those who were not Jews were the worst sort of Russian and Ukrainian rabble, the resentful louts and ne'er-do-wells who saw in communism a way to get even with their betters. In any event, the Ukrainians were fully aware of the preponderance of Jews in the secret police, and they suspected that there was a Jewish angle to the pattern of arrests in 1937 and 1938. And indeed, it did seem as if the Talmudic injunction to "kill the best of the Gentiles" were being followed, for those who were arrested seemed to be the most solid, the steadiest, the most reliable and irreproachable of the Ukrainians.


Thirty thousand were arrested in the Vinnitsa region alone, and most of these eventually were sent to the NKVD prison in the city of Vinnitsa. This prison had a normal capacity of 2,000 prisoners, but during 1937 and 1938 it was packed most of the time with more than 18,000 prisoners. Throughout much of 1938 a few dozen prisoners were taken from the prison each night and driven to a nearby NKVD motor pool area. There their hands were tied behind their backs and they were led, one at a time, a few hundred feet to a concrete slab in front of a garage. The slab was used for washing vehicles, and it had a drain at one side with an iron grating over it. Just as the prisoners reached the edge of the slab they were shot in the back of the neck, so that when they fell onto the concrete their blood would run into the drain. This was what the NKVD men jokingly called "mokrii rabota" -- "wet work" -- and they had had plenty of experience at "wet work." A truck parked next to the slab kept its engine racing so that the noise of the engine would cover the sound of the shots. While the next prisoner was being led up, a couple of NKVD men would throw the corpse of the previous prisoner into the truck. When the night's quota of victims had been murdered the truck would drive off with its load of corpses to the fenced-in park or to the nearby orchard, where new graves already were waiting. And this "wet work" went on night after night, month after month.




So why is this gruesome story important to us now? After all, this massacre of Ukrainians in Vinnitsa took place 60 years ago. I'll tell you why it's still important to us, aside from the fact that these Ukrainians were our people, our kinfolk, part of our race.
First, you might ask yourself why you have never before heard about Vinnitsa, and I'm sure that's the case for about 99 per cent of our listeners. Of course, Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote about what happened at Vinnitsa, in the third volume of his Gulag Archipelago, but you're not likely to find that in the rack at the checkout counter.



And Ukrainians and Germans have written about it, although for the most part their writings have never been published in English, because publishers in this country understand that it would be Politically Incorrect to publish anything about Vinnitsa. Much better that people just forget about it.
Isn't that odd, though, when we continually hear so much about Auschwitz? Isn't it odd that when Jewish groups are using their political influence to have laws passed in a number of states requiring high school students to take courses about the so-called "Holocaust," what happened at Katyn or at Vinnitsa is never mentioned in high school?



The excuse given for requiring students to study the so-called "Holocaust" is that it was the greatest crime in history, and we should know about it so that we won't repeat it. But then why shouldn't we learn about Katyn and Vinnitsa and Dresden and a thousand other atrocities where our people were the victims, and so the lesson should be even more pertinent for us?




You know, I'm not trying to be cute about this. We all know the answers to these questions, but I just want you to think about their significance. To them, Auschwitz is important because Jews died there, and Vinnitsa is not important, because only Gentiles were killed there. The Jewish media bosses keep rubbing our noses in Auschwitz, because they want us to feel guilty, they want us to feel that we owe the Jews something for letting it happen.


The Jewish media bosses never mention Vinnitsa because Jews were the guilty ones there. Besides, they make a lot of money by promoting the "Holocaust." It's certainly not going to help their profits to divide the attention and the sympathy of the American public between Auschwitz and Vinnitsa. And it's certainly not going to help their effort to extort billions of dollars in "Holocaust" reparations from the Swiss and from everyone else to admit their own guilt at Katyn and Vinnitsa.
Think about it! If Poles controlled the news and entertainment media in America, we'd hear a great deal more about Katyn, I suspect. If Germans controlled our media we'd hear much more about the terror bombing of Dresden. And if Ukrainians controlled our media, every high school student would know about Vinnitsa. But it's the Jews who control our media, and so all we hear about is Auschwitz: never even a whisper about Vinnitsa. That's important. We ought to be concerned about that. We ought to be concerned whenever any part of our history is suppressed, is hidden from us. We ought to find out why. It might help us to make sure that what happened to us at Vinnitsa never happens to us again.
I'm sure that you've all heard the maxim that the best defense is a strong offense. Do you remember the persecution all through the 1980s of John Demjanjuk, the retired Cleveland auto worker whom the Jews accused of being "Ivan the Terrible"? John Demjanjuk is a Ukrainian who came to America after the Second World War. In 1978 the Jews made a big hullabaloo about Demjanjuk being a guard in a German prison camp during the war, and the U.S. government obediently hauled him to court and stripped him of his citizenship. Then he was handed over to the Jews for crucifixion and deported to Israel. The mass media in America were full of sensational stories for 15 years about Ivan the Terrible and how the Ukrainians had helped the Germans persecute the poor, innocent Jews. Unfortunately, this strategy worked for the Jews.



The Ukrainians kept their heads down instead of raising the issue of Vinnitsa. Of course, even if they had begun trying to tell Americans about Vinnitsa or about what Kaganovich had done to the Ukrainian kulaks, who would have heard them? Ukrainians don't own the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, Time magazine, Newsweek magazine, or U.S. News & World Report. The Jews own all of those media.


And the Ukrainians don't own Hollywood, so they can't make movie dramas about Vinnitsa either, like Steven Spielberg does about the so-called "Holocaust."
The crux of this matter is that the Jews have been getting away with presenting a grossly distorted version of history to us, a version in which they are the completely innocent victims, and our people, the Ukrainians and Poles and Germans are the bad guys who have been persecuting the poor Jews for no reason at all. They've been pumping out this propaganda in concert, consciously and deliberately, without a single major medium under their control deviating from their party line. And people try to tell me that, well, the Jews may control the media, but they don't conspire with each other. Baloney!
And because they've been getting away with giving us a falsified version of history, they've been able to change America's foreign and domestic policies in directions to suit themselves, to our enormous disadvantage. Everything which has happened in the Middle East, for example, since the Second World War is based on this false history.
More than that, everything that has happened in Europe since the murder of 12,000 Ukrainians at Vinnitsa in 1938 has been based on the Jews' power to control what we learn about our history, about what is happening and has happened in the world around us. The U.S. government allied itself with the Soviet government in 1941 for the purpose of destroying Germany. The communists were presented to the American public as the good guys, as worthy allies, and the Germans were presented as the bad guys.


And the American public bought that lie because they didn't know about Vinnitsa or about a thousand other atrocities committed against our people by the communists.


When the Germans brought in the international commission to examine the graves in Vinnitsa in 1943, the Jew-controlled media kept the news from the American people, just the way they kept the news about the Katyn Forest genocide away from the American people. And because of this, there was no real opposition to turning half of Europe over to the communists at the end of the Second World War.



If Katyn and Vinnitsa had been publicized, so that every American voter knew in detail what the NKVD had done at Katyn and at Vinnitsa, the politicians in Washington never would have been able to get away with turning the Poles and the Hungarians and the Rumanians and the Bulgarians and the Croats and the Serbs and the Czechs and the Slovaks and the Baltic peoples and all of the Germans in the eastern part of Germany over to these communist butchers.


The politicians in Washington got away with this not just because they were in the pockets of the Jews, but because the American people weren't given the truth. And because we weren't given the truth millions more of our people died at the hands of the NKVD after the war, and all of eastern Europe was plundered by the communists for 50 years, and there was a Korean War and a Vietnam War -- which there wouldn't have been if we hadn't kept the communist empire alive because of our own ignorance, because of the lies we'd been told about what happened in Europe. We lost more than 100,000 of our best young men in the Korean and Vietnam wars alone.
So you see, it is important what the public is told. It is important that our people know the truth about our history, even about things which happened 60 years ago. And I intend to do everything I can to give them the truth.
Now I believe that you can understand why the Jews try so hard to keep me off the air, why they bring pressure against every radio station which carries American Dissident Voices. They are desperate to keep the American people in the dark about Vinnitsa and Katyn and their other crimes. And I am determined to tear down the curtain of silence and darkness and give truth and light to our people.
And there is some urgency about this, because the Jews are continuing to push for laws against what they call "hate speech" -- which means any speech which contradicts their lies. They have succeeded in getting such laws passed in other countries. If I tried to make this broadcast in Canada or Britain, for example, the police would arrest me and shut down the station before I could finish. Let's not let that happen in America.
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html

luciferhorus
02-11-2010, 04:21 PM
We spoke a few weeks ago about the mass murder of the leadership stratum of the Polish nation by the Soviet secret police in the Katyn Forest in April 1940.


We discussed that genocidal atrocity in the light of the ongoing Jewish campaign to portray Jews as the principal victims of the Second World War and to collect reparations from the rest of the world today.

..... If I tried to make this broadcast in Canada or Britain, for example, the police would arrest me and shut down the station before I could finish. Let's not let that happen in America.
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html

On the Ideology of militant, genocidal Capitalism and anti-Communism.

Lucifer

Since the main subject which seems to be discussed on this forum is the Nazi genocides, the Neonazis and Nazi apologists certainly distinguish themselves in the modern world to the extent to which they go to deny certain historical and scientific facts in order to deny the Nazi genocides.

There is certainly no question that the British, Americans, Russians, Germans, Maoist Chinese and numerous other governments have commited genocide, both in the name of Capitalism and Communism. I think that all honest "historians," as opposed to Holocaust Deniers would have to concede this point.

The current Capitalist genocide of some 70 million people (there are various estimates of this statistic) every year due to the effects of poverty (starvation, treatable disease, manufactured biowarfare, unsanitary conditions, polluted water, etc.) is however still ongoing. This has nothing to do with the shortage of food, medicines or the existence of technology to improve this situation; it is purely a phenomeonon of Capitalism; people do not die of hunger because of a shortage of food, but because of the absence of Capital to buy that food, and because in the world of private landowner ship, farmers in the poorest nations on earth export food to the richest and most obese nations on earth in order to obtain Capital. Similarly in the First World fertile agricultural land is used to grow bio fuuls, or for cattle fodder, or for golf courses, or it is left barren in order to collect government hand outs.

Certainly the ideological, miltant, evangelical proponents of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism and their state terrorist, narco-terrorist colonies are by far the most genocidal ideologists in all of human history, however this makes not an iota of difference to the ideological defenders of Capitalism and anti-Communism, for whom the statistics of past genocides by their Communist enemies are constantly dragged up.

For the ideological and genocidal Capitalist, the human suffering of billions of people enslaved and impoverished in the Capitalist Dictatorship is all justifiable, whereas any similar atrocities committed in the name of Communism are not. It is simply an ideological matter, not a statistical matter.

No amount of citing of the statistics of Capitalism's wars, genocides, miltiary coups, state terrorism, narco-terrorism etc, will move the fundamentalist fanatics of anti-Communism to repentance. It is a war of ideology.

On the other hand the abuses of Stalin and Mao's purges and the past failures of collectivist revolution to feed large populations in certain periods are generally conceded by "most" modern day Trotskyists, Marxist / Leninists, Judaeo-Communists and the various brands of Socialsts, Communists and Anarchists.

We do not look to Mao and Stalin as our economic models, but to Cuba, Israeli Communism (Kibbutzism) and to the Spanish Revolution, which have been either crushed (as in the case of Spain), opposed (as in the case of Cuba) or transformed (as in the case if Israel) to some extent by International Capitalism.

Capitalism "works" in the same way that slavery "works" for the slavemaster; the slaves do all the work and the economic slavemasters benefit from the exploitation of the labour slavery of the slaves.

Of course a modern economic elite and slavemaster is hardly likely to want to emigrate to Cuba or to the Israeli Kibbutzim. That is not the point. Revolution is not about the liberation of the economic slavemasters, but of the economic slaves.

Probably the vast majority of the almost 7 billion persons here who are enslaved by the Dictatorship of Capitalism would emigrate to Cuba or to the Kibbutzim tomorrow if they could, as they would enjoy a higher standard of living; it is the economic elites who point to the failures of such projects from their ivory towers where they live with the abundance of Capital.

In a world of almost 7 billion people, many of whom are enslaved and improverished, agricultural collectivism is the only practical solution which will bring about the non miraculous feeding of the 6-7 billion persons here, however that is not the objective of the Capitalists and fanatics of the religion business, but it is rather to keep the population of humankind in perpetual economic slavery and to profit from their immense suffering.


Lux


http://weblog.timoregan.com/uploaded_images/depleted-uranium.2005-731227.jpeg

eternal_spirit
02-11-2010, 05:01 PM
On the Ideology of militant, genocidal Capitalism and anti-Communism.

Lucifer

Since the main subject which seems to be discussed on this forum is the Nazi genocides, the Neonazis and Nazi apologists certainly distinguish themselves in the modern world to the extent to which they go to deny certain historical and scientific facts in order to deny the Nazi genocides.

There is certainly no question that the British, Americans, Russians, Germans, Maoist Chinese and numerous other governments have commited genocide, both in the name of Capitalism and Communism. I think that all honest "historians," as opposed to Holocaust Deniers would have to concede this point.


Well in part it is in response to the anti Germanic sentiment and endless threads. Addressing the balance is important and showing the true history and heavy Jewish involvement in and creation of Communism.

Neo Stasi Communists will try cover up the true history and Jewish involvement, in all honesty after some study it's clear the fact is that Communist murdered far more than any Nazis ever done.

The same political ideology which gave birth to Mao, Pol Pot etc - that starved it's own people killed 100's of millions. Displaced 100's of millions.

The former Communist countries are a mess and the cause of much immigration from these countries into Capitalist ones. Of course one could claim the same about Capitalism.

Problem is Communism never solved anything much just made things worse. And has become a defunct system. The people often rebelled against Communist dictators and governments.

tinyint
03-11-2010, 05:53 PM
Some interesting analogies between jewish bloshevism/communism and the Talmud...

Jewish Deception and Dissimulation

The response of the orthodox rabbis to documentation regarding the racism and hatred in their sacred texts is simply to brazenly lie, in keeping with the Talmud's Baba Kamma 113a which states that Jews may use lies ("subterfuge") to circumvent a Gentile.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center, a multi-million dollar rabbinical propaganda center dispatched Rabbi Daniel Landes in 1995 to deny that the Talmud dehumanizes non-Jews. "This is utter rot," he said. His proof? Why, his word, of course.

Lying to "circumvent a Gentile" has a long patrimony in Judaism. Take for example the 13th century Talmud debate in Paris between Nicholas of Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity, whom Hyam Maccoby admits had "a good knowledge of the Talmud" ( "The Jews on Trial," p. 26) and Rabbi Yehiel. Yehiel was not under threat of death, bodily injury, imprisonment or fine. Yet he brazenly lied during the course of the debate.

When asked by Donin whether there were attacks on Jesus in the Talmud, Yehiel denied that there were any. Donin, a Hebrew and Aramaic scholar, knew this to be false. Hyam Maccoby, a 20th century Jewish commentator on the debate, defends Rabbi Yehiel's lying in this way:

"The question may be asked, however, whether Yehiel really believed that Jesus was not mentioned in the Talmud, or whether he put this forward as an ingenious ploy in the desperate situation in which he found himself...It would certainly have been pardonable of the rabbi to attempt some condonation in which he did not fully believe, to prevent such tyrannical proceedings by one religious culture against another." ( Maccoby, "The Jews on Trial," p. 28).

This is how Jewish denial of the existence of hateful Talmud texts is justified to this day. A fanciful word for Jewish lying is conjured ("condonation") and deemed "pardonable," while any scrutiny of Jewish holy books by Christian investigators is characterized as a "tyrannical proceeding."

In 1994, Rabbi Tzvi Marx, director of Applied Education at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem, made a remarkable admission concerning how Jewish rabbis in the past have issued two sets of texts: the authentic Talmudic texts with which they instruct their own youth in the Talmud schools (yeshiviot) and "censured and amended" versions which they disseminate to gullible non-Jews for public consumption.

Rabbi Marx states that in the version of Maimonides' teachings published for public consumption, Maimonides is made to say that whoever kills a human being transgresses the law.

But, Rabbi Marx points out "...this only reflects the censured and amended printed text, whereas the original manuscripts have it only as 'whoever kills an Israelite."(Tikkun: A Bi-Monthly Jewish Critique May-June, 1994).

The Jewish book, Hesronot Ha-shas ("that which is removed from the Talmud"), is important in this regard. (Cf. William Popper, The Censorship of Hebrew Books p. 59).

Hesronot Ha-shas was reprinted in 1989 by Sinai Publishing of Tel-Aviv. Hesronot Ha-shas is valuable because it lists both the original Talmud texts that were later changed or omitted, and the falsified texts cited for Gentile consumption as authentic.

Historian William Popper states: "It was not always that long passages...were censored...but often single words alone were omitted...Often, in these cases, another method of correction was used in place of omission--substitution." (Cf. William Popper, The Censorship of Hebrew Books pp. 58-59).

For example, the translators of the English Soncino version of the Talmud sometimes render the Hebrew word goyim (Gentiles) under any number of disguise words such as "heathen, Cuthean, Kushite, Egyptian, idolater" etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all non-Jews). Footnotes for certain passages in the Soncino Talmud translation state: "Cuthean (Samaritan) was here substituted for the original goy..."

The heirs of the Pharisees often deny the existence of the Talmud passages here cited, in order to brazenly claim that such passages are the "fabrications of anti-Semites."

In 1994, the 80 year old Lady Jane Birdwood was arrested and prosecuted in a criminal court in London, England for the "crime" of publishing in her pamphlet, The Longest Hatred, the truthful statement that the Talmud contains anti-Gentile and anti-Christian passages. (She was accused of violating the Public Order Act of 1986).

In the course of her Orwellian thought-crime trial, which was ignored by the U.S. media, a rabbi was called as a prosecution witness. The rabbi proceeded to flatly deny that the Talmud contained anti-Gentile or anti-Christian passages and on the basis of the rabbi's "prestige," this elderly and ailing woman was sentenced to three months in jail and fined the equivalent of $1,000.

and...

U.S. Government Lays Groundwork for Talmudic Courts

"Our" government under Presidents Reagan, Bush and Clinton, has provided, under the euphemism of education (for example, House Joint Resolution 173 and Public Law 102-14), a groundwork for the establishment of Talmudic "courts of justice" to be administered by disciples of Shneur Zalman's Chabad successor, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.

Maimonides ruled that it is a Jewish court -- or a court appointed by Jewish authority --that enforces obedience and passes judgment on Gentiles, as well as promulgating legislation by court order for that purpose. Maimonides further decreed that any non-Jewish nation "not subject to our jurisdiction" (tahaht yadeinu) will be the target of Jewish holy war. (Cf. Hilkhot Melakhim 8:9-10; 10:11. Also cf. Gerald J. Blidstein, "Holy War in Maimonidean Law," in Perspectives on Maimonides [Oxford, England: Oxford Univ. Press, 1991].

These courts are to be convened allegedly under the "Noahide Laws" (proscriptions against idolatry supposedly based on the covenant with Noah). The U.S. presidents and Congress urged the adoption of the "Noahide" Laws as interpreted by Chabad-Lubavitch Grand Rabbi Schneerson.

Prof. Easterly of the Southern University Law Center, a Jewish legal expert, has compared this Public law 102-14 to the "first rays of dawn" which "evidence the rising of a still unseen sun."

The Jewish Encyclopedia envisages a Noahide regime as a possible world order immediately preceding the universal reign of the Talmud.

It has to be understood that we are not dealing with the Noah of the Bible when the religion of Judaism refers to "Noahide law," but the Noahide law as understood and interpreted by the absolute system of falsification that constitutes the Talmud.

Under the Talmud's counterfeit Noahide Laws, the worship of Jesus is forbidden under penalty of death, since such worship of Christ is condemned by Judaism as idolatry. Meanwhile various forms of incest are permitted under the Talmudic understanding of the Noahide code. (Enziklopediya Talmudit, note 1, pp. 351-352).

Furthermore, all non-Jews would have the legal status of ger toshav ("resident alien," cf. Alan Unterman, Dictionary of Jewish Lore and Legend [London: Thames and Hudson, 1991], p. 148), even in their own land; as for example in occupied Palestine where newly arrived Khazars from Russia have an automatic right to housing and citizenship, while two million Palestinian refugees who either fled or were expelled by the Israelis, are forbidden the right of return.

Resident alien status has been clearly delineated in scholarly articles in leading Jewish publications. For example, Hebrew University Professor Mordechai Nisan, basing his exposition on Maimonides, stated that a non-Jew permitted to reside in a land ruled by Jewish law "must accept paying a tax and suffering the humiliation of servitude."

If Gentiles refuse to live a life of inferiority, then this signals their rebellion and the unavoidable necessity of Jewish warfare against their very presence. [Cf. Mordechai Nisan, Kivunim (official publication of the World Zionist Organization), August, 1984, pp. 151-156].

At a symposium ("Is Autonomy for Resident Aliens Feasible?") organized by Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni, the Israeli Chief Rabbi Shlomo Goren repeated the Talmudic teaching on resident aliens: that Judaism forbids "granting any national rights" to them. He ruled that such "Autonomy is tantamount to a denial of the Jewish religion." (Nadav Shraggai, Ha'aretz, Oct. 14, 1992).

American taxpayers' subsidy of the so-called "U.S. Holocaust Museum" in Washington, D.C., is yet another indicator of the gradual establishment of a Jewish state religion in the U.S. This "Holocaust museum" excludes any reference to holocausts perpetrated by Jewish Communists against Christians in Russia and Eastern Europe, from 1917 onward.

The focus of the museum is almost entirely on Jewish suffering. Holocausts perpetrated by Israelis against Arabs in Lebanon and Palestine since 1948 are nowhere to be found in the exhibits of the U.S. "Holocaust Museum," which functions more like a synagogue than a repository of objective historical information.

It is through the rapid emergence of this ostensibly secular but all-pervasive "Holocaustianity" -- whereby the religion of Judaism is gaining enormous power and influence as mankind's supreme ethos and the creed of God's Holy People.

and finally...

Jewish Law Requires Christians be Executed

Israeli "Torah scholars" have ruled that:

"The Torah maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the World to Come. But not all religious Gentiles earn eternal life by virtue of observing their religion...And while the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come."

--Israeli Mechon-Mamre website, June 26, 2000; 12 Hayyim Vital St., Jerusalem, Occupied Palestine. ("Mechon Mamre is a small group of Torah scholars in Israel...").

[Note: we have printed and preserved in our files a hard copy of this statement from the Israeli "Mechon-Mamre Torah Scholars," as it appeared on their website at http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm on June 26, 2000, in the event that denials are later issued and the statement itself suppressed].

http://revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Especially, in FRG Ltd, we have concealed talmudic laws, such as this lovely one...

Section 130 Agitation of the People

(1) Whoever, in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace:

1. incites hatred against segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or

2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population,

shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years.

(2) Whoever:

1. with respect to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)), which incite hatred against segments of the population or a national, racial or religious group, or one characterized by its folk customs, which call for violent or arbitrary measures against them, or which assault the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning or defaming segments of the population or a previously indicated group:

a) disseminates them;

b) publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes them accessible;

c) offers, gives or makes accessible to a person under eighteen years; or

(d) produces, obtains, supplies, stocks, offers, announces, commends, undertakes to import or export them, in order to use them or copies obtained from them within the meaning of numbers a through c or facilitate such use by another; or

2. disseminates a presentation of the content indicated in number 1 by radio,

shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or renders harmless an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 220a subsection (1), in a manner capable of disturbing the public piece shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

(4) Subsection (2) shall also apply to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)) with content such as is indicated in subsection (3).

(5) In cases under subsection (2), also in conjunction with subsection (4), and in cases of subsection (3), Section 86 subsection (3), shall apply correspondingly. http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm

Now, the criminals want to expand this very flexible section on individuals.
Expect much more than over 10000 inquisition trials a year currently, against the gojim. That is more trials a year than in former GDR!
The Sanhedrin are working desperately to suppress the truth, and the Sayanim are more cunning than ever..

luciferhorus
03-11-2010, 06:17 PM
Well in part it is in response to the anti Germanic sentiment and endless threads.


This is a typical statement made my Nazi apologists who equate being "anti-Nazi" or insisting that the Nazis committed genocide with being anti-German.
This simply not true, since it implies that all Germans are Nazis and that all Germans deny the fact that the Nazis committed genoide. Further Nazism is an "ideology" not a country; many Nazis were and are today non-Germans; in fact even Fidel Castro (who is not German) admitted that in his youth, prior to his intellectual conversion to Communism, that he was a Nazi symathiser who admired the Nazis.


Addressing the balance is important and showing the true history and heavy Jewish involvement in and creation of Communism.

Yes a great many Jewish intellectuals, political philosophers and activists of the Communist movement were Jewish. This is really only a problem for anti-Jewish bigots; Communism is not anyway an ideology which has an ideological tolerance for the diseases of nationalism or racialism..

Neo Stasi Communists

The Stasi were the secret police in Stalinist East Germany; frankly you will find that Stalin is almost universally despised by modern ideological Communists and considered a "betrayer" of the revolution and as Trotsky argued, a person who turned the Soviet Union and it's client states into a personal dictatorship.

will try cover up the true history and Jewish involvement, in all honesty after some study it's clear the fact is that Communist murdered far more than any Nazis ever done.

The Nazis only had a few years to carry out their genocides; the Capitalists and Communists have had a much longer period of existence. Certainly there were abuses and failures in the many Communist experiments, as well as successes; however I find that the issue of citing statistics never resoloves anything. The fact that the current genocide of the Capitalists causes more deaths per year than the entirety of the deaths in WW2 is irrelevant to those who defend the dictatorship of Capitalism, and who are only interested in accusing their enemies.


The same political ideology which gave birth to Mao, Pol Pot etc - that starved it's own people killed 100's of millions. Displaced 100's of millions.

You should take that matter up with the ideological Maoists or the supporters of Pol Pot, the latter of whom was assisted by the Americans for the purpose of destabalising Cambodia, on which more bombs were dropped during the Vietnam War than were dropped on Germany in WW2.


The former Communist countries are a mess and the cause of much immigration from these countries into Capitalist ones. Of course one could claim the same about Capitalism.

Problem is Communism never solved anything much just made things worse. And has become a defunct system. The people often rebelled against Communist dictators and governments.

The former Soviet nations have been transformed into sewers of Capitalism ruled by the bankers, elite Capitalists, pimps, drugs dealers and the mafia. There is still a mass exodus of people from those countries into the brothels of Germany and Western Europe; it is not really much of an advert for the wonders of Capitalism unless one is lucky enough to be a Capitalist elite. Meanwhile probably the vast majority of people in the Capitalist world would migrate to Cuba tomorrow where they could have monthly food rations, free rent, free healthcare, etc.

Generally since the ciritique of Communism is often based on the worst abuses, the same argument can made against Capitalism; might I suggest that you emigrate to the Congo or Mozambique or perhaps seek employment as a sex slave in a Cambodian brothel, since you are such an admirer of the dictatorship of Capitalism .


Lux

tinyint
03-11-2010, 06:24 PM
This is a typical statement made my Nazi apologists who equate being "anti-Nazi" or insisting that the Nazis committed genocide with being anti-German.
This simply not true, since it implies that all Germans are Nazis and that all Germans deny the fact that the Nazis committed genoide. Further Nazism is an "ideology" not a country; many Nazis were and are today non-Germans; in fact even Fidel Castro (who is not German) admitted that in his youth, prior to his intellectual conversion to Communism, that he was a Nazi symathiser who admired the Nazis.




Yes a great many Jewish intellectuals, political philosophers and activists of the Communist movement were Jewish. This is really only a problem for anti-Jewish bigots; Communism is not anyway an ideology which has an ideological tolerance for the diseases of nationalism or racialism..



The Stasi were the secret police in Stalinist East Germany; frankly you will find that Stalin is almost universally despised by modern ideological Communists and considered a "betrayer" of the revolution and as Trotsky argued, a person who turned the Soviet Union and it's client states into a personal dictatorship.



The Nazis only had a few years to carry out their genocides; the Capitalists and Communists have had a much longer period of existence. Certainly there were abuses and failures in the many Communist experiments, as well as successes; however I find that the issue of citing statistics never resoloves anything. The fact that the current genocide of the Capitalists causes more deaths per year than the entirety of the deaths in WW2 is irrelevant to those who defend the dictatorship of Capitalism, and who are only interested in accusing their enemies.




You should take that matter up with the ideological Maoists or the supporters of Pol Pot, the latter of whom was assisted by the Americans for the purpose of destabalising Cambodia, on which more bombs were dropped during the Vietnam War than were dropped on Germany in WW2.


The former Soviet nations have been transformed into sewers of Capitalism ruled by the bankers, elite Capitalists, pimps, drugs dealers and the mafia. There is still a mass exodus of people from those countries into the brothels of Germany and Western Europe; it is not really much of an advert for the wonders of Capitalism unless one is lucky enough to be a Capitalist elite. Meanwhile probably the vast majority of people in the Capitalist world would migrate to Cuba tomorrow where they could have monthly food rations, free rent, free healthcare, etc.

Generally since the ciritique of Communism is often based on the worst abuses, the same argument can made against Capitalism; might I suggest that you emigrate to the Congo or Mozambique or perhaps seek employment as a sex slave in a Cambodian brothel, since you are such an admirer of the dictatorship of Capitalism .


Lux

What you obviously do not get comrade, capitalism and communism is one and the same evil system.
The one overt and the other covert. Both thought out by the Pharisees.
Probably one day you will get it, when they come for you and you are no longer of any use to them.
The same deluded dogmatic people carried out the mass murder in the Bolshevist Revolution. I feel pity for you.

celestial
07-11-2010, 12:51 AM
Generally since the ciritique of Communism is often based on the worst abuses, the same argument can made against Capitalism; might I suggest that you emigrate to the Congo or Mozambique or perhaps seek employment as a sex slave in a Cambodian brothel, since you are such an admirer of the dictatorship of Capitalism .

luciferhorus, a question for you: anthony sutton wrote a book detailing how wall street bankrolled the bolshevik revolution. why would the very heart of capitalism bring its archenemy to power?

bendoon
07-11-2010, 12:57 AM
luciferhorus, a question for you: anthony sutton wrote a book detailing how wall street bankrolled the bolshevik revolution. why would the very heart of capitalism bring its archenemy to power?

Because Communism and Capitalism are not enemies they are both creations of the elite and being used to steer the world towards a world Government.

Its called the Hegelian dialectic.

Thesis: Capitalism
Antithesis: Communism
Synthesis: World Government

luciferhorus
07-11-2010, 02:17 AM
luciferhorus, a question for you: anthony sutton wrote a book detailing how wall street bankrolled the bolshevik revolution. why would the very heart of capitalism bring its archenemy to power?


Yes I have read it. It seems to me that the funding of the Bolshevik revolution by Jacob Schiff is the central peice of evidence which conspiracy theorists who are ideological Capitalists and anti-Communists use to make the rather ridiculous argument that the current International Dictatorship of Capitalism ultimately have an anti-Capitalist agenda, despite almost endless overt and covert warfare between the Capitalists and Communists since the end of WW2

The rather trifling sum of $20 million which Schiff gave to the Bolsheviks is rather tame in comparision to the Czar's overseas bank accounts which have been frozen ever since his execution by the Bolsheviks, and in comparison to the billions which the Federal Reserve gave to Germany.

Essentially the central conspiracy theory argument from the ideological Capitalists and anti-Communists is that since International Capitalists have financed both Capitalist Revolution and in the case of Russia, Communist Revolution, therefore Communism is bad and Capitalism is good, so we will continue to be Capitalists and anti-Communists; it is not really an "argument;" it is rather just stupidity.


Lux

___________________

"Of equal importance were the enormous cash reserves which the Czar had invested abroad in European and American banks. The New York Times stated that the Czar had $5 million in Guaranty Trust, and $1 million in the National City Bank; other authorities stated it was $5 million in each bank. Between 1905 and 1910 the Czar had sent more than $900 million to be deposited in six leading New York banks, Chase, National City, Guaranty Trust, J.P. Morgan, Hanover, and Manufacturers Trust. These were the principal banks controlled by the House of Rothschild through their American agents, J.P. Morgan, and Kuhn, Loeb Co. These were also the six New York banks which bought the controlling stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914. They have held control of the stock ever since.

The Czar also had $115 million in four English banks. He had $35 million in the Bank of England, $25 million in Barings, $25 million in Barclays, and $30 million in Lloyd’s Bank. In Paris, the Czar had $100 million in Banque de France, and $80 million in the Rothschild Bank of Paris. In Berlin, he had $132 million in the Mendelsohn Bank, which had long been bankers to Russia. None of these sums has ever been disbursed; at compound interest since 1916, they amount to more than $50 billion. Two claimants later appeared, a son, Alexis, and a daughter, Anastasia. Despite a great deal of proof substantiating their claims, Peter Kurth notes in “Anastasia” that “Lord Mountbatten put up the money for court battles against Anastasia. Although he was Empress Alexandra’s nephew, he was the guiding force behind Anastasia’s opposition.” The Battenbergs, or Mountbattens, were also related to the Rothschild family. They did not wish to see the Czar’s fortune reclaimed and removed from the Rothschild banks.

Kurth also notes “In a 1959 series on the history of the great British banks, for example, the Observer of London remarked of Baring Brothers, 'The Romanovs were among their most distinguished clients. It is affirmed that Barings still holds a deposit of more than forty million pounds that was left them by the Romanovs. Anthony Sampson editor in chief, said no protests were made. This story is generally considered to be true.” Eustace Mullins http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/The_World_Order/the_rothschilds-2.htm[/QUOTE]

torus
07-11-2010, 02:44 AM
"...communism can be seen as the highest stage in the emergence of secular arrogance. It asserted not only the possession of the key to a totally "scientific" insight into the inner workings of the entire human experience ("a historical science") but also the vision of a state of total bliss for all humanity (minus, of course, the exploitative classes).

In its institutional form, communism elevated the top political leader to the status of a living god, much like nazism. This worship, carried to absurd extremes in the multiple cases of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim, Ceausescu and others, led the practitioners of "scientific materialism" to the point of even worshiping the preserved and publicly displayed remains of the original founder. In that fashion mass religiosity was to be channeled into doctrinally correct secular forms."

Zbigniew Brzezinski, Out Of Control

torus
07-11-2010, 02:53 AM
"The opening of the secret Soviet archives - and also of the archives of some of the formerly communist East European states - as well as open access to hitherto withheld socioeconomic statistics reveal that in fact communist totalitarianism was more criminal, more brutal, and socially more destructive than alleged by even its most severe critics. It was a system not only of mass-murder - on a scale without precedent in human history - but of the deliberate demoralization of society and of the reckless devastation of the physical environment. In brief, both the body and the soul of society were its victims."

Z. Brzezinski, Out of Control

torus
07-11-2010, 03:02 AM
"It is difficult, however, to find an even semirational explanation for the reckless destruction of the natural environment throughout the once communist-ruled socities...communism's dogmatic self-righteousness reduced idealism to barbaric inhumanity and to institutionalized hypocrisy. It pushed its claim to rationality to an irrationally dogmatic degree even while claiming the actual attainment of utopia in the face of massive evidence to the contrary..."
-Brzezinski

torus
07-11-2010, 03:08 AM
"It is a moral outrage that in the wake of the extensive denunciations of Stalin's crimes throughout what was once called the Soviet bloc, NOT A SINGLE STALINIST SECRET POLICE FUNCTIONARY, CONCENTRATION CAMP COMMANDER, TORTURER, OR EXECUTIONER HAS BEEN PLACED ON TRIAL FOR STALINIST CRIMES."
-Brzezinski

luciferhorus
07-11-2010, 05:29 AM
What you obviously do not get comrade, capitalism and communism is one and the same evil system.
The one overt and the other covert. Both thought out by the Pharisees.
Probably one day you will get it, when they come for you and you are no longer of any use to them.
The same deluded dogmatic people carried out the mass murder in the Bolshevist Revolution. I feel pity for you.

I am not a Bolshevist despite any ideological similarlites I have with the Bolshevists who are the fanatical believers in the power of a tyrannical police state, I am an Anarchist Communist.

OK, so what is your economic counterproposal to Capitalism and Communism if you don't like either system?

Usually when I ask this question I find that the anti-Capitalist anti-Communists are usually always entirely confused and end up admitting that they are ideolgical Capitalists or State Capitalists.

Surprise me.

Lux

tinyint
07-11-2010, 11:41 AM
I am not a Bolshevist despite any ideological similarlites I have with the Bolshevists who are the fanatical believers in the power of a tyrannical police state, I am an Anarchist Communist.

OK, so what is your economic counterproposal to Capitalism and Communism if you don't like either system?

Usually when I ask this question I find that the anti-Capitalist anti-Communists are usually always entirely confused and end up admitting that they are ideolgical Capitalists or State Capitalists.

Surprise me.

Lux

My counter proposal?
Stop shilling for the communists and the hoaxers.

The rest is *yawn*, gives me a shiver, and reminding me of the bloody communist rhetorics.

I am simply not interested in dogmatic corrupt babble on isms.

Do you want to comment on Stalin's order 0428?

celestial
07-11-2010, 07:47 PM
The rather trifling sum of $20 million which Schiff gave to the Bolsheviks is rather tame in comparision to the Czar's overseas bank accounts which have been frozen ever since his execution by the Bolsheviks, and in comparison to the billions which the Federal Reserve gave to Germany.

trifling in comparison but it's still a large sum of money. and it was enough to get the job done. they didn't need a huge military machine like the nazis. it was however necessary for the czar to be weakened, and this is perhaps why jacob schiff helped japan defeat russia in 1905.

the important point is that it made no sense for capitalist bankers to give them the money. i don't think communists can explain it. your post didn't.

...the current International Dictatorship of Capitalism ultimately have an anti-Capitalist agenda, despite almost endless overt and covert warfare between the Capitalists and Communists since the end of WW2

from anthony sutton's website:

In 1968, his Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development was published by The Hoover Institute at Stanford University. Sutton showed how the Soviet state's technological and manufacturing base, which was then engaged in supplying the North Vietnamese the armaments and supplies to kill and wound American soldiers, was built by US firms and mostly paid for by the US taxpayers. From their largest steel and iron plant, to automobile manufacturing equipment, to precision ball-bearings and computers, basically the majority of the Soviet's large industrial enterprises had been built with the United States help or technical assistance.

http://www.antonysutton.com/

drakul
07-11-2010, 10:44 PM
Because Communism and Capitalism are not enemies they are both creations of the elite and being used to steer the world towards a world Government.

Its called the Hegelian dialectic.

Thesis: Capitalism
Antithesis: Communism
Synthesis: World Government

+1

Both systems are controlled by the Jews. They are the bridge across muddy waters. Either way, the Jews benefit. World govt is their ultimate goal. This is what the Jews were working toward with Communism, taking over the world.

China is no longer Communist. It is just a state controlled oligarchy.

rodin
07-11-2010, 11:03 PM
trifling in comparison but it's still a large sum of money. and it was enough to get the job done. they didn't need a huge military machine like the nazis. it was however necessary for the czar to be weakened, and this is perhaps why jacob schiff helped japan defeat russia in 1905.

the important point is that it made no sense for capitalist bankers to give them the money. i don't think communists can explain it. your post didn't.



from anthony sutton's website:

In 1968, his Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development was published by The Hoover Institute at Stanford University. Sutton showed how the Soviet state's technological and manufacturing base, which was then engaged in supplying the North Vietnamese the armaments and supplies to kill and wound American soldiers, was built by US firms and mostly paid for by the US taxpayers. From their largest steel and iron plant, to automobile manufacturing equipment, to precision ball-bearings and computers, basically the majority of the Soviet's large industrial enterprises had been built with the United States help or technical assistance.

http://www.antonysutton.com/

Also see Douglas Reed, Controversy of Zion for more on Lend Lease, Alger Hiss and his Jew N - he even SOUNDS like a snake...

vegan_on_the_land
07-11-2010, 11:41 PM
It has been known for decades that both the Nazi and Soviet regimes were murder machines.

tinyint, post 13
The brits actually invented concentration camps during the 2. Boer War.

The term was perhaps created by the British but not the concept. And those concentration camps didn't have gas chambers. You can't compare them with the Nazi and Soviet ones. The Americans had earlier ones called Indian Reservations. The Austrians had concentration camps for Serbs in the First World War. The Finns had them for Communists in 1918. The Finns set them up again in the war against Russia in the 1940s. And there were the German concentration camps in Namibia before the First World War. Many other countries have had them.

In the early 20th-Century Armenians were kept in concentration camps by the Turks and Kurds. And slaughtered or starved or worked to death. There are Turks who deny the reality of the Armenian Genocide, just as there are people who deny the reality of the Jewish Holocaust. History seems to repeat itself.

torus
10-11-2010, 01:42 AM
according to Brzezinski...writing in 1992
"Once the Soviet Army drove the Germans out of Poland, the Soviet NKVD and its Communist puppets were especially ruthless in stamping out the anti-Nazi Polish underground, since it represented during WWII the best organized European resistance movement and was a thus a formidable barrier to Communist rule."

-Out Of Control, p.15

STAMPING OUT THE ANTI-NAZI POLISH UNDERGROUND

"In another notorious case, some of the executioners of the 15,000 Polish officers in Katyn and elsewhere have been identified as living in the former Soviet Union on state pensions. Yet in a strange display of moral lethargy, to this day nowhere has anyone been brought to justice for these extraordinary crimes."

Now, America entered the war to, as usual, to "liberate". god bless 'er! She knows how to pick her allies....

"A chilling case in point is provided by the documents which Boris Yeltsin courageously revealed to the world regarding the long-kept secret Soviet massacre in 1940 of Polish officers, officials, and intellectuals taken prisoner after the joint Nazi-Soviet occupation of Poland in 1939. On March 5, 1940, Lavrenti Beria, the head of the NKVD, submitted a memorandum addressed to 'Comrade Stalin', providing a detailed breakdown of the 14,736 officers held prisoner in three camps, and of 10,685 Polish political prisoners held in various Soviet prisons. All were described as committed enemies of the Soviet Union, and the document recommended that they all be executed. On the same day, the Politburo met, and its protocol no. 13 of March 5, 1940 simply stated as follows:

Decision of 5.III.1940 - Case of NKVD USSR
I) To convey to the NKVD USSR
I) the files of 14,700 persons contained in camps for prisoners of war: former Polish officers, officials, landowners, policemen, intelligence officials, gendarmes, settlers, and criminals.

2) as well as the files of 11,000 persons arrested and placed in prisons in the western regions of the Ukraine and Belorussia: members of various counterrevolutionary, espionage and diversionary organizations, former landowners, factory owners, former Polish officers, officials and refugees - to resolve through a special process, applying to them the highest penalty: shooting.

II. The cases are to be resolved without summoning the arrested and without presenting to them the indictments, the decisions to close the investigations and the verdict according to the following procedure:

a) regarding the persons held in camps for prisoners of war on the basis of data presented by the Administration for Prisoners of War of the NKVD USSR,
b) regarding persons arrested on the basis of data presented by the NKVD of the Ukranian SSR and the NKVD of the Belorussian SSR.

III. Resolution of the cases and the handing down of the verdict is to be entrusted to the troika of comrades composed of: Merkulov, Kabulov, Bashtakov (head of the first Special Department of the NKVD USSR).
(signed) Secretary of the C.C. J. STALIN.

.....That was all. With one scrap of paper, containing the brief phrase 'applying to them the highest penalty' more than 25,000 lives (representing in this particular case the social elite of a country) were wiped out. On a much more massive scale, this procedure was repeated for several years for hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens, not to mention the millions that that also perished through exhaustion, starvation, and maltreatment in the Gulag. Though the precise figures for Stalin's toll will never be available, it is unlikely that the range of 20-25,000,000 victims is an exaggeration."

torus
10-11-2010, 01:44 AM
"one of the things that gave Stalinism its prestige in the West, even (or especially) among those who recognized that its methods were immensely ruthless, was the abstract, utopian notion that there was a certain horrible grandeur in what was going on."

-Robert Conquest, Reflections On A Ravaged Century p.7

who controlled Auschwitz upon its liberation and imposed their habitual code of secrecy?

princeosiris
29-11-2010, 11:19 PM
You said Hitler was a reaction/resistance against Communism - therefore the Nazis were trying to act as the good guys, saving the world from Communism. My point is right on target. In just 4 years Hitler managed to kill 50 million people. 50 million in 4 years.

Hitler was not about saving the world from Communism, that was his front. Problem, Reaction - Solution. Remember Hitler's `NEW (World) ORDER' in Mein Kampf? Hitler called the Slavs the UNTERMENSCHEN - the `Lower Men' -the `SLAVE RACE'. Germans were the Ubermenschen.

It was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples (see New Order).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

Furthermore a big reason the Nazis invaded Russia was to steal their raw materials and land (Lebensraum). Hitler made no bones about this. He talked about it from 1925 on in Mein Kampf calling it Germany's `Turn to the East'.

I am strictly anti-communist. The Soviet Gulags were terrible. But please don't try to ignore history and make the Nazis into the good guys because they invaded Russia. Comparatively speaking, the Germans killed far more people - 50 million, in just 4 years, than the Soviets did in 80 years.

Don't think for yourselves people just allow this clown do the thinking for you as he spouts his pro-communist drivel and quotes wikipedia lolol

Hitler is the perfect boogeyman for conspiracy candylanders like you who make up all kinds of shit about him or just blindly believe everything negative you've ever heard about him.

Hitler's invasion of Russia was a pre-emptive strike. Stalin planned an offensive war against Germany and wished to impose Communism on all of Europe.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/icebreaker.pdf

Notice how any leader who stands up to the Jews is vilified in the media and equated with the devil's advocate. Hitler, Idi Amin, Bin Laden, Ahmadinejad, Nassrallah, etc, yet the real evil-doers are never mentioned -- Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky, Marx, Hess, Mao, Kissinger, Rothschild, Schiff, Warburg, Bronfman, Sassoon, etc. This isn't that hard to figure out

learn a thing or two about real history instead of just spouting the official line as presented by the Jewish media, thanks.

ppl can start their research here:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pdf_books_top_list.htm

vegan_on_the_land
30-11-2010, 12:34 AM
Hitler's invasion of Russia was a pre-emptive strike. Stalin planned an offensive war against Germany and wished to impose Communism on all of Europe.



Hitler wanted lebensraum and the Caucasian oil. If Stalin planned a war against the Nazis he had a strange way of going about planning it. The Soviets were sending the Nazis trains full of supplies at the very time the Nazis were invading Russia.

snoopsnuffleopagus
30-11-2010, 12:54 AM
That's close to 70 million Russians killed by Jewish communists


Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hitler knew

He knew what was going on in Russia

Dr. Adolf Ehrt, historian and Director of the agency in Germany that was charged with administering Soviet information called the

Anti-Komintern

In 1933 Ehrt wrote the book

Communism in Germany: The Communist Conspiracy on the Eve of the 1933 National Revolution

After the Jews declared war on Germany

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/dailyexpress1933.gif
March, 1933
March, 1933

After the Jews/Communists took over Russia

After the Jews/Communists attempted to take over Germany

And failed



Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The book details the great lengths that the Jewish communists went through in order to turn Germany into another Russia

In the end, Hitler and his National Socialist Party prevailed



The last chapter of the book is titled "The Task"

It's a sunning indictment of the Christian nations who brought Germany down

Ehrt writes that Germany fought communism in 1933 not only for itself, but for all western Christian nations in a war against Bolshevism.

In the end - We instead chose Red Communist Jewish Russia as our ally

Good thread ES. People should know the truth no matter how unpleasant it is.
Let's see how they try to deny what is in this thread..

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059450560&postcount=22
Refuted with Historical Truth, Wildthang/Eternal Spirit is deranged,

Judaic Communists: The Documentary Record

This Thread is a False Flag, contived by an Antisemitic Bigot to demonize and deligitimize Jews and their Religion; Judaism.

Checkout Michael A Hoffman ll.

Pretty sick shit, even for your low, low, gutter level standards.

Michael a Hoffman ll? A reporter?http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/hist...ked=3&item=ihr

Holocaust denier, Antisemite.

Is this the best you can do?

You, an Apologist for Hitler and the NAZIs?


Checkout the History of Communism and Capitalism by credentialed Historians.

Communism is NOT of Judaic origin.A coupla atheistic people of Jewish ethnicity do not make it Judaic.

It actually began in Greece.


Quote:
Quote:
Communism as a theory of government and social reform may be said, in a limited sense, to have begun with the ancient Greek idea of the Golden Age, a concept of a world of communal bliss and harmony without the institution of private property. Plato, in his Republic, outlined a society with communal holding of property; his concept of a hierarchical social system including slavery has by some been called “aristocratic communism.”

The Neoplatonists revived the idea of common property, which was also strong in some religious groups such as the Jewish Essenes and certain early Christian communities. These opponents of private property held that property holding was evil and irreligious and that God had created the world for the use of all humanity. The first of these ideas was particularly strong among Manichaean and Gnostic heretics, such as the Cathari, but these concepts were also found in some orthodox Christian groups (e.g., the Franciscans).



Read more: communism: Origins of Communism — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/histor...#ixzz14F8tsMpc


http://www.ok-safe.com/files/documen..._Treason_1.pdf
Scientific Socialism


Quote:
Quote:
Marx was a self-proclaimed scientist. His “scientific” theories explained the entire history of man and determined his future. They are to be used to transform man’s nature. Being “scientists,” communists have certain basic “scientific” laws which underlie their beliefs and teaching. They include:
There is no God. When communists deny God, they simultaneously deny every virtue and every value which originates with God. There are no moral absolutes, no right and wrong.
The Ten Commandments and the Sermon On The Mount are invalid.
Accepting this concept of “morality” the communists teach that all is right which advances the cause of socialism. All is wrong which impedes its progress. For the communist, to lie, cheat, steal, or murder, is perfectly moral if it advances communism. Conversely, a communist who would refuse to lie, cheat, steal or murder to aid the socialist movement is
immoral. In the words of Lenin: We do not believe in eternal morality- our morality is entirely subordinated to the interests
of the class struggle.

Compare these thoughts to actual Judaism, and tell us what you think.

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of Yah
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=727



Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity
Quote:

Quote:
As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian parlance Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, idolatry Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." [5] Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time."

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people." Rabbi Greenberg

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for Yahwehs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, Yahweh invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of Yahweh play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=729

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=731


Quote:
We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over allits enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of lifes capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

You are a prisoner of your own hatred and envy.

You inhabit a very dark world.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!!!!


michael a hoffman ll

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/hist...ked=3&item=ihr
__________________
.

Originally Posted by eternal_spirit
Judaic Communists

The Prop-Masters

Perpetrators of the holocaust against Christian Russia transform themselves into "survivors" of "the Holocaust"

This list is by no means comprehensive. To catalog all of the Judaic Communist involved in crimes would require hundreds of pages.


More Bullshit revisionista antisemitic propaganda from a dimwit:

Jewish Bolshevism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
Jewish Bolshevism, Judeo-Bolshevism, Judeo-Communism, and known as Żydokomuna in Poland, is an antisemitic stereotype[1] based on the claim that Jews are the driving force behind the modern Communist movement, specifically the Russian Bolsheviks.

I:E: NAZI Bullshit propaganda


The expression was the title of a pamphlet, The Jewish Bolshevism, and became current after the October Revolution (1917) in Russia, featuring prominently in the propaganda of the anti-communist "White" forces during the Russian Civil War. It spread worldwide in the 1920s with the publication and circulation of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It made an issue out of the Jewishness of some leading Bolsheviks (most notably Leon Trotsky) during and after the October Revolution. Daniel Pipes says that "primarily through the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Whites spread these charges to an international audience."[2] James Webb wrote that it is rare to find an antisemitic source after 1917 that ..."does not stand in debt to the White Russian analysis of the Revolution."[3]

The label "Judeo-Bolshevism" was used in Nazi Germany to equate Jews with communists, implying that the communist movement served Jewish interests and/or that all Jews were communists.[4] According to Hannah Arendt, it was "the most efficient fiction of Nazi Propaganda".[5] In Poland before World War II, Żydokomuna was used in the same way to allege that the Jews were conspiring with the USSR to capture Poland. According to André Gerrits, "The myth of Jewish Communism was one of the most popular and widespread political prejudices in the first half of the 20th century, in Eastern Europe in particular."[6] The allegation still sees use in antisemitic publications and websites today.



Jewish involvement in Russian Communism
Quote:
[edit] Persecution of Jews in the late Russian Empire
Main article: History of the Jews in Russia and the Soviet Union
Jews had been a persecuted minority in the Russian Empire.[7] They had endured a form of racial segregation in the Pale of Settlement, as well as sporadic pogroms. In the period from 1881 to 1920, more than two million Jews left Russia.[8]

According to Berel Wein:

Expulsions, deportations, arrests, and beatings became the daily lot of the Jews, not only of their lower class, but even of the middle class and the Jewish intelligentsia. The government of Alexander III waged a campaign of war against its Jewish [citizens]... The Jews were driven and hounded, and emigration appeared to be the only escape from the terrible tyranny of the Romanovs."[9]Jews in relatively large numbers joined various ideological currents favoring gradual or revolutionary changes within the Russian Empire. Those movements ranged from the far left (anarchists,[10] Bundists, Bolsheviks, Mensheviks[11]) to moderate left (Trudoviks[12]) and constitutionalist (Constitutional Democrats[13]) parties. Such monarchist parties as Union of the Russian People expressed clearly antisemitic attudes, and included antisemitic paragraphs in their political program.


Jews in the Bolshevik party
Quote:
On the eve of the February Revolution, in 1917, the Bolshevik party had about 10,000 members, of whom 364 were ethnic Jews.[8][14] Between 1917 and 1919, Jewish members of the senior leadership of the party included Grigory Zinoviev, Moisei Uritsky, Grigory Sokolnikov, and Leon Trotsky. In addition, Adolph Joffe was a Karaite, and Lev Kamenev had a Jewish father (and a Russian mother).[15][16] Of these, Trotsky was also a member (or "Narkom") of the ruling Council of People's Commissars.[17] Among the 23 Narkoms between 1923 and 1930, five were Jewish.[15]
Conditions in Russia (1924) A Census -Bolsheviks by Ethnicity According to the 1922 party census, there were 19,564 Jewish members of the Bolsheviks, comprising 5.21% of the total.[15] The same year's figures for the 44,148 members of the Bolshevik party that had joined before October 1917 – the Old Guard, as Lenin referred to them[14] – described 7.1% as ethnic Jews and 65% as ethnic Russians.[17]

Among members of the Central Executive Committee of the Congress of Soviets in 1929, there were 402 ethnic Russians, 95 Ukrainians, 55 Jews, 26 Latvians, 13 Poles, and 12 Germans – Jewish representation had actually declined from 60 members in 1927.[18]

In the 1920s, of the 417 members of the Central Executive Committee, the party Central Committee, the Presidium of the Executive of the Soviets of the USSR and the Russian Republic, the People's Commissars, 6% were ethnic Jews.



Quote:
Between 1936 and 1940, during the Great Purge, Yezhovshchina and after the rapprochement with Nazi Germany, Stalin had largely eliminated Jews from the top level of the party, government, diplomatic, security and military positions.[19] In 1939, Stalin directed incoming Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov to "purge the ministry of Jews".[20] Although some scholars believe that this decision was taken for primarily domestic reasons,[20] others argue it possibly was a signal to Nazi Germany that the USSR was ready for non-aggression talks.[21][22]

According to historian Iakov Etinger, many Soviet state purges of the 1930s were antisemitic in nature, and a more intense antisemitic policy developed toward the end of World War II.[23] Stalin in 1952 allegedly said privately that "every Jew is a potential spy for the United States.



Quote:
A major source for propaganda about Jewish Bolshevism in the 1930s and early 1940s was the pro-Nazi and virulently antisemitic international Welt-Dienst / World-Service / Service Mondial news agency founded in 1933 by Ulrich Fleischhauer.

At the same time, and independently of the Nazis was a tendency within the German Army to see Soviet Communism as a Jewish conspiracy. In 1918, Karl von Bothmer, the German Army's plenipotenitary in Moscow called the Bolsheviks "a gang of Jews" and expressed the desire "to see a few hundred of these louts hanging on the Kremlin wall".[27] Evaluations of the Red Army by the visting Reichswehr officers during the period of German-Soviet co-operation often show antisemitism with comments about the "Jewish slyness" of General Lev Snitman or the "Jewish blood" of General Leonid Vajner being very typical.[28] In 1932, Ewald Banse, a leading German professor and a member of the National Association for the Military Sciences (a group secretly financed by the Reichswehr) wrote in a pamphlet calling for "intellectual world domination" by Germany wrote that the Soviet leadership was mostly Jewish who dominated an apathetic and mindless Russian masses.[29]



Ignorant, dimwitted assholes, the mindless Antisemitic Drones; never cease to blame the Jews for their own self inflicted idiocy and shortcomings. Will it never cease?





The myth of Jewish communism: a historical interpretation By André Gerrits

http://books.google.com/books?id=i6J...munism&f=false


The myth of an international Jewish communist conspiracy has long been a central diet of anti-Semitic agendas, most notably in Hitler's program of ideological genocide. But equally many authors not influenced by anti-Jewish agendas have suggested that conservative fears of Jewish Bolshevism possessed some legitimacy. The Dutch academic Andre Gerrits provides a dispassionate and balanced account of this contentious topic.

Gerrits acknowledges that the equation of Jews with Communism contains a small element of truth. From about 1870 till at least 1970, Jews were conspicuous for their involvement in socialist and communist parties and movements. The Jewish alliance with the Left reflected a number of complex historical and political factors including the class oppression of Jews who were mostly poor and working-class, the ethnic/national oppression of Jews by various European right-wing governments and movements, and the defence of Jewish claims to equality by most left-wing European parties and movements.

But equally many of the Eastern and Central European communist movements to which Jews belonged in disproportionate numbers were very small movements. The small minority of Jews involved were not representative of Jews as a whole.

The Jewish contribution to Communism fuelled anti-Semitic conspiracy theories such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion alleging that Jews control or manipulate the international communist movement in order to rule the world. But as with other racist frameworks, the Judeo-Communist myth is based on an anti-Semitic construction that exists independently of any objective reality.

It is not about what Jews actually say or do, but rather about what anti-Semites falsely and malevolently attribute to them. The myth reflected a notion of collective Jewish guilt similar to that of the blood libel.

Gerrits attempts to separate the myth from the reality. He considers the lack of reliable empirical data on Jewish Communism, and raises four key observations. Firstly, Jews were not the only ethnic minority over-represented in European Communist parties between the two world wars. So too were Georgians, Armenians and Latvians.

Secondly, Jewish participation in Communist parties varied from country to country, and was not universally significant. For example, there were few Jews in positions of influence in the German Communist Party.

Thirdly, it was not only the number of Jews but also the prominence of some Jews in leadership positions including state security organs that captured popular attention. And finally, the prominence of Jews in Communist parties tended to decline quickly once Communist rule was established.

Gerrits notes that the Judeo-Communist myth was strongest in those European countries — Poland, Hungary and Romania — which had large Jewish minorities, strong traditions of popular anti-Semitism, and a credible fear of Russian expansionism associated with an alleged potential for Jewish collaboration with Russian aggression.

He identifies two key historical periods in the development of the myth. The first was immediately following World War One when the visible rise of the Jews from the margins to a prominent role in professional and business life coincided with rapid social and political changes and upheaval. The prominent role of individual Jews such as Trotsky and Bela Kun in the Russian Revolution and other radical uprisings was widely noted.

The second was the arguably key role played by a number of Jewish Communists known as the 'Muscovites' in the Soviet takeover of Poland and Hungary following World War Two. Gerrits rejects conspiracy theories that Stalin deliberately placed Jews in leading positions to serve as scapegoats for any public backlash against Communist rule. Instead, he argues that they were chosen not because of their Jewish background, but solely due to their political reliability.

Gerrits also addresses other major issues such as the later purging of most of the Eastern European Jewish Communists by Stalin, and the associated emergence of Communist anti-Semitism as a political tool in the Soviet satellites including the tragic 1968 expulsion of over 20,000 Jews from Poland. He also comments that the Judeo-Communist myth had little impact in post-1945 Western Europe or the USA despite the prominence of some Jews such as the Rosenbergs in the Cold War spy trials.

Today, the Judeo-Communist myth is fortunately dead except for tiny groups on the paranoid far Right. But its long-standing destructive and genocidal impact should serve as a universal warning of the dangers of demonising or essentialising whole peoples or groups whatever the actions of individual members.


Associate Professor Philip Mendes teaches Social Policy and Community Development at Monash University.




Jews and Money: Let's Talk About ItSubmitted by Eric Herschthal on Tue, 11/16/2010 - 18:15

http://www.thejewishweek.com/blogs/w..._talk_about_it


Quote:
ShareNo one likes to talk about Jews and money. Too much history has gotten between the two, to say nothing of the present: see the Beck/Soros fracas, for instance, or Al Pacino in Broadway's "Merchant of Venice." But now seems as good a time as any to tackle the connection. Thankfully a few provocative books are trying to do just that.

First is ADL director Abe Foxman's "Jews and Money: The Story of A Stereotype," which tries to debunk the notion that Jews are over-represented in finance, or disproportionately wealthy. Then there is the genuine history book by Jerry Muller, called "Capitalism and the Jews," which takes as its premise that Jews are indeed disproportionately involved in money--or its opposite, communism, at least historically speaking.

Muller's is the more interesting of the two, as he argues that the Jewish involvement in finance is a marriage of convenience, not the avaricious scheme propounded by anti-semites. Muller explains how Jews in medieval Christian Europe were the only ones allowed to engage in finance, since charging interest--or, making money off of money--was a Christian sin (Dante put usurers in the seventh ring of hell, alongside murderers and homosexuals).

But less well known is the pre-Christian linkage between Jews and money, dating back to Aristotle's Greece. In the seed bed of Western civiliatization, Jews too were something of a pariah, and just as later Christians would deny Jews the right to own land, Greeks did as well. The only way Jews could participate in economic life was by working in the burgeoning financial system built to support trade: which is to say, money lending, banking and finance. In other words, capitalism.


But this also went against the Grecian moral value which held that virtuous work was only to be found in physical labor. Conversely, charging interest, a foundational tenet of capitalism, was ignoble.

To be sure, Muller shows how Jewish rabbinic law encouraged Jews to enter finance. By the early medieval period, rabbis made it kosher for Jews to charge interest--but only on non-Jews. That played into anti-semitic notions quite well. Muller argues further that the value Jews placed on education and abstract thinking also lead many to pursue the headier business of finance.

Still, the argument could be made that Jewish leaders encouraged Jews to enter finance for no other reason than that it was all that was available to them. In necessity, sin never had a better enemy.

Because Foxman sees only anti-semitism in the association with Jews and money, he cannot allow for this kind of historical understanding. And yet, he is absolutely correct to argue against the nasty bigotry that too often attends any mention of Jews and money. For that is just as much a reality of contemporary discourse--again, see Beck, and for that matter, Ahmadinejad--as it was in the days of Marx.

And about Marx: we should not forget that Jews were just as involved in the antithesis of capitalism--communism--as they had been in capitalism.

Muller takes this on too, arguing that Jews found in communism an illusionary escape from anti-semitism. For everyone, including Jews, communism also offered an alternative to the rapid industrialization of the 19th and early 20th century. The problem with industrialization was that it left out millions, and was intimately connected with capitalism. (For more on this, read Dickens.)

The other alternative was of course nationalism--be it the Italian, French, or German sort. But nationalism was too strictly limited to homogenized ethnic types. Jews again didn't fit in, so communism it was.

To be fair, Jews had their own kind of nationalism too, which also encorporated swaths of communist thought. They called it Zionism, which was the Jewish alternative to the Jews' misbegot romance with communism. How communism played out in Russia--pogroms after the bolshevik revolution, followed again by the terror of Stalin--made Zionism seem immensly attractive. Jews could have their own mythic agrarian collective in the desert, free from capitalism, anti-semitism, and the like.

But that too would meet a less accomodating reality. And we still live with the consequence.


Capitalism and the Jews
http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Jew.../dp/0691144788

In his slim essay collection Capitalism and the Jews, Jerry Z. Muller presents a provocative and accessible survey of how Jewish culture and historical accident ripened Jews for commercial success and why that success has earned them so much misfortune. . . . While this book is ostensibly about 'the Jews,' Muller's most chilling insights are about their enemies, and the creative, almost supernatural, malleability of anti-Semitism itself. For centuries, poverty, paranoia and financial illiteracy have combined into a dangerous brew--one that has made economic virtuosity look suspiciously like social vice. -- Catherine Rampell, New York Times Book Review

Ahoy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wildthang, ol' buddy ol' pal, I've provided you with this PDF several times, have you ever read it?

http://entitledtoanopinion.files.wor...ellgeneric.pdf
Are Jews Generic?

princeosiris
30-11-2010, 01:10 AM
@snoopsnuffleopagus

wow you sure try pretty hard to deny what is so obvious to so many people.

Sources for your denial of the facts:

-yourself (jew)
-the anti defamation league (jew)
-wikipedia (jew)

LOLOLOL

give yourself a break from being a two-bit Judeo propagandist on an alternative conspiracy forum. what a loser

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

snoopsnuffleopagus
30-11-2010, 02:44 PM
@snoopsnuffleopagus

wow you sure try pretty hard to deny what is so obvious to so many people.

Sources for your denial of the facts:

-yourself (jew)
-the anti defamation league (jew)
-wikipedia (jew)

LOLOLOL

give yourself a break from being a two-bit Judeo propagandist on an alternative conspiracy forum. what a loser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-jp9aTXyA

..........snicker........princeosiris :rolleyes: lol@yooz............:D

Not trying hard at all, exposing well known NAZI propaganda, examine the population Statistics, Jews comprised less then 6% of the Bolsheviks and Communists. That means it was an Atheistic Gentile inspired and actuated massacre.

Your 3 attempts at attempting to discern me are; EPIC FAIL..


1: I am a nordic Gentile :cool:

2: not a member of ADL or any other Group. :eek:

3: Wiki is not the only source Cited, engage the historical facts or be quiet. ;) ; princess .........chortle......snicker..................

Also attempt to engage what the Jews really think and do rather then submit to NAZI propaganda, who could possibly want to exterminate the entirety of 0.2% of the Human Race and why? :confused:

Wildthang is a NAZIHindoo who has a serious case of Animus towards da Joooooooooz, so much so that he has created about 13,739 Posts that 'Bear False Witness' against da Joooooooz to inspire hatred and genocide.

I am merely a 'Voice in the Wilderness' who has the moral decency to engage his lies and attempt to help him by bringing forth the truth and much higher quality historical Data.

I pity him and yooz and all others that share this deranged and demented Worldview. :rolleyes:

And as for Alternative Conspiracy, what the hell do yooz think I am presenting? :confused:

Yooz the 'Status Quo'. lol@yooz X infinity

Take it on the arches Princess. ;)

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!! :)

ladybird
30-11-2010, 04:05 PM
@snoopsnuffleopagus

wow you sure try pretty hard to deny what is so obvious to so many people.

Sources for your denial of the facts:

-yourself (jew)
-the anti defamation league (jew)
-wikipedia (jew)

LOLOLOL

give yourself a break from being a two-bit Judeo propagandist on an alternative conspiracy forum. what a loser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-jp9aTXyA


Could not agree more!

:)

snoopsnuffleopagus
30-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Could not agree more!

:)

So what? Yooz obviously have unresolved issues. :rolleyes:

Princesspsoriasis Posted inaccurate Speculative Conjecture and you agree. :rolleyes:

Yooz wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit you in the ass. :rolleyes:

You probably don't agree with the Germans that saw through Hitler and the NAZI dementia and aided and abetted the Allies. :rolleyes:

Am I right? :D

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

princeosiris
30-11-2010, 06:11 PM
..........snicker........princeosiris :rolleyes: lol@yooz............:D

Not trying hard at all, exposing well known NAZI propaganda, examine the population Statistics, Jews comprised less then 6% of the Bolsheviks and Communists. That means it was an Atheistic Gentile inspired and actuated massacre.

Your 3 attempts at attempting to discern me are; EPIC FAIL..


1: I am a nordic Gentile :cool:

2: not a member of ADL or any other Group. :eek:

3: Wiki is not the only source Cited, engage the historical facts or be quiet. ;) ; princess .........chortle......snicker..................

Also attempt to engage what the Jews really think and do rather then submit to NAZI propaganda, who could possibly want to exterminate the entirety of 0.2% of the Human Race and why? :confused:

Wildthang is a NAZIHindoo who has a serious case of Animus towards da Joooooooooz, so much so that he has created about 13,739 Posts that 'Bear False Witness' against da Joooooooz to inspire hatred and genocide.

I am merely a 'Voice in the Wilderness' who has the moral decency to engage his lies and attempt to help him by bringing forth the truth and much higher quality historical Data.

I pity him and yooz and all others that share this deranged and demented Worldview. :rolleyes:

And as for Alternative Conspiracy, what the hell do yooz think I am presenting? :confused:

Yooz the 'Status Quo'. lol@yooz X infinity

Take it on the arches Princess. ;)

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Gentiles don't go around conspiracy forums relentlessly defending Jewish murderers and criminals with typical pathetic strawman arguments. Anyone who posts links to the ADL as a source for their information IS without question a JEW.

snoopsnuffleopagus
30-11-2010, 07:04 PM
Gentiles don't go around conspiracy forums relentlessly defending Jewish murderers and criminals with typical pathetic strawman arguments. Anyone who posts links to the ADL as a source for their information IS without question a JEW.

Ahoy Princesspsoriasis, check out my Opus, I am not a one trick pony, a one note melody.

I provide an extremely broad range of credentialed, sourced, vetted, peer-reviewed sources. Nothing wrong with the ADL, they have a legitamate and necessary work due to the hateful propaganda.

Stick to the facts and issues, okay?

Yooz wouldn't even be alphabetically literate if it wasn't for da Djooooooooozz.

I give credit where credit is due.

And I never, ever lie, not even for a perceived advantage.. :p

And if you really think I'm a Jew, you have very poor discernment.


Aloha!!!!!!!!! :)

princeosiris
30-11-2010, 07:14 PM
Ahoy Princesspsoriasis, check out my Opus, I am not a one trick pony, a one note melody.

I provide an extremely broad range of credentialed, sourced, vetted, peer-reviewed sources. Nothing wrong with the ADL, they have a legitamate and necessary work due to the hateful propaganda.

Stick to the facts and issues, okay?

Yooz wouldn't even be alphabetically literate if it wasn't for da Djooooooooozz.

I give credit where credit is due.

And I never, ever lie, not even for a perceived advantage.. :p

And if you really think I'm a Jew, you have very poor discernment.


Aloha!!!!!!!!! :)

Wow you even support the ADL, a jewish criminal organization that was caught spying on thousands of American citizens in 1993 and passing the info on to the Israeli Mossad and South African intelligence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1920932670630585756#

I see you support Jewish criminals in all their manifestations, whether communist mass murderers or professional smear artists. but you swear you're not a Jew. ;);););)
go back to the circus, clown.

ladybird
30-11-2010, 07:16 PM
Gentiles don't go around conspiracy forums relentlessly defending Jewish murderers and criminals with typical pathetic strawman arguments. Anyone who posts links to the ADL as a source for their information IS without question a JEW.

You are of course right,
but that does not prevent the deceivers from denying the truth, as usual.

;)

eternal_spirit
08-12-2010, 04:50 PM
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142348

Jewish Communists & their role in mass genocides on Germans & others before, during & after world war2

dollanaqua
08-12-2010, 05:02 PM
There are some truly sick, evil, scum in this world!

There sure are. Why has the media always hidden the fact that Judaic communists are right up there at the top the list of sick evil scum ?

lizzy
08-12-2010, 05:13 PM
There sure are. Why has the media always hidden the fact that Judaic communists are right up there at the top the list of sick evil scum ?

the protocols will always tell us HOW.....there is something totally sub-human about them.

lizzy
08-12-2010, 05:17 PM
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142348

Jewish Communists & their role in mass genocides on Germans & others before, during & after world war2

none of this will ever be referenced in any way at school......or in the media......this scum is diseased , a plague in the whole of humanity.

eternal_spirit
29-01-2011, 02:33 PM
none of this will ever be referenced in any way at school......or in the media......this scum is diseased , a plague in the whole of humanity.
Took a long time for certain realities to be made known to a wider audience.

Russia admitted recently that it was Communists who partook in the Katyn massacre (a crime the media blamed on Germans since the end of the war).

Some media has recently told the truth!

eternal_spirit
06-04-2011, 11:39 AM
Still waiting for the BBC specials & other channels to broadcast weekly programmes about the Communists & their Gulag death camps.

What's that? Never in a month of Sundays.

tinyint
06-04-2011, 11:57 AM
The sad thing is here, many of the older have known the truth about Katyn(and other alleged crimes) since almost 70 years.
It was prohibited by heavy penalties under Soviet regime to deny the Wehrmacht did it, just like the US/UK push the gas hoax.
It was the soviet version of the hoax, and central element in propaganda and reeducation.
Didn't work.

Im Wald von Katyn - 1943 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8343483081259549026#)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8343483081259549026#

German documentary from 1943! on Kaytn massacre showing international red cross, Poles and Germans investigating the mass graves.

If RT would only air just this Film, but nooo, we get modern shit.

And fuck the mafia for deleting and fighting this film and the truth for so long.

soleil
06-04-2011, 01:46 PM
It may be said without hesitation that Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s 200 Years Together. The Jews in the Soviet Union is one of the most important books on the Russian Revolution and the early Bolshevik period ever to appear. After publication of this work with its many revelations about the role of the Jews during the Leninist period, the history of the Bolshevik October putsch will have to be rewritten, if not completely, then with substantial additions.

The book title might have been even more appropriately called "The End of the Legends." For example, the legend that there ever existed an independent "Russian" Social Democracy Party is questioned. Founded in Minsk in 1898, the Russian Social Democratic Workers Party (RSDWP) derived, with respect to personnel and organization, from the Allgemeine jüdische Arbeiterbund in Lithuania, Poland, and Russia. It might be said that the Jewish Arbeiterbund midwife service officiated at the birth of the Russian Social Democracy Party. Legends without number are examined.

Solzhenitsyn emphasizes, "Many more Jewish voices than Russian are heard in this book". Jewish voices, not Russian, speak of Jewish dominance in the anti-monarchial movements in the period before the war. In an article entitled "The Jewish Revolution" in the 10 December 1919 issue of the Neue Jüdischen Monatsheften, published in Berlin, was the sentence:

"Regardless of how extremely the anti-Semites exaggerate it, and how so nervously the Jewish bourgeoisie deny it, the large Jewish contingent in today’s revolutionary movement stands fast."

http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/3/Strauss342-351.html


The motives and obsessions of the left-oriented intellectual class recall the Cambridge Spy case (Philby, Maclean, Blunt, Burgess). Specifically, in the BBC sentimentalized story, in which one of the decadents proclaims:

"To fight Fascism, you have to be a Communist."

That sums up bankrupt Britain.

eternal_spirit
07-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Stalin's Brother-In-Law
http://www.jewwatch.com/images/Kaganovich.jpg
Lazar Kaganovich: Stalin's Mass Murderer
American Times Today

Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich (Kogan), of Jewish descent, was born in Kubany, near Kiev, Ukraine, in 1893. In 1911 he joined the Jewish-founded Communist Party and became involved with the Bolsheviks (Lower East Side New York Jews). Kaganovich took an active part in the 1917 takeover of Christian Russia by Communism and rose rapidly in the Party hierarchy.

Josef Stalin (Dzhugashvili) altered census figures to hide the millions of famine deaths when the Ukraine and northern Caucasus region had an extremely poor harvest in 1932, just as Stalin was demanding heavy requisitions of grain to sell abroad to finance his industrialization program which was on top of enforced collective farming of 1929. Stalin is conservatively estimated to have been responsible for the murder and/or starvation of 40,000,000 Russians and Ukrainians during his reign of terror, while the total deaths resulting from the de-kulaklization and famine, by way of Kaganovich, can be conservatively estimated at about 14,500,000.

On any analysis, Kaganovich, was one of the worst mass murderers in history, and little wonder that during World War II large numbers of Ukrainians greeted the Germans as liberators, with many joining the Waffen-SS to keep Communism from enslaving all of Europe.
lot's more here
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-kaganovich.html
All about keeping it in the family eh & keeping it out of any school's curriculum..

eternal_spirit
08-04-2011, 07:35 PM
You realise the millions of survivors have not had a penny in compensation. Even read reports that some never got repatriated to their home lands.

charlesb
09-04-2011, 08:55 PM
You realise the millions of survivors have not had a penny in compensation. Even read reports that some never got repatriated to their home lands.
May be someone should launch a class action lawsuit against international Jewry?

eternal_spirit
16-04-2011, 01:04 PM
May be someone should launch a class action lawsuit against international Jewry?
Indeed. Wonder if it's been tried..Not as if they're short of money to compensate. A quick look at the 100 richest people for example in the USA is domninated by Jews.

eternal_spirit
16-04-2011, 07:49 PM
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/martingray.GIF

The portraits above are of the same man but in two different incarnations. On the left we see Martin "Gray" in retirement after a successful career peddling fake antiques to gullible collectors. He is holding his mass market paperback, For Those I Loved, which is filled with his exploits as a saintly "Holocaust Survivor" who was supposedly forced to help clear bodies out of the Treblinka "gas chamber." The earlier portrait on the right is of the youthful Gray as a decorated officer in the Soviet NKVD (the forerunner of the KGB), responsible for the murder of millions of Christians and gentiles in Russia and Eastern Europe. Even Establishment researchers have had to admit that Gray's book is as phony as the antiques he peddled. But Gray's scam is symbolic of countless other Communist ghouls who have managed to land on their feet in the West, disguised as poor, persecuted "Survivors of the Holocaust" and feted as the saints and martyrs of the universe. Meanwhile the holocaust they perpetrated against millions of Christians slips further down the dark environs of Orwell's memory hole.
In chapter 13 of Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist, Dickens notes that Fagin has an inexhaustible supply of props and disguises.
Judaic Communists: The Documentary Record

by Michael A. Hoffman II


"The only two non-Jews in the communist conspiracy were Chambers and Hiss...Every other one was a Jew and it raised hell with us."
Statement of President Richard Nixon in 1971, as recorded at the White House on tape and released by the National Archives in 1999. The reference is to Whittaker Chambers and Alger Hiss. (Sources: N.Y. Times, Oct. 7, 1999 and Newsweek, Oct. 18, 1999, p. 30)
"It is legitimate to adopt a critical attitude toward the relatively large number of Jews who particularly in the first decade after the Bolshevik revolution collaborated with the Soviet Government in the persecution of other peoples."
Statement of researcher Michael Mills, an official of the government of Australia at Canberra. (Source: Forward, March 10, 2000)
Judaic Professor Arno Mayer of Princeton in his important book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? states that the German invasion of Russia was carried out with the intention to eradicate Bolshevik (Soviet Communist) ideology. The Germans were hardly the only ones in the West to believe that, "Soviet Russia is a dictatorship of Jewry."
On Feb. 8, 1920 a young British writer made a similar observation in the Illustrated Sunday Herald:
"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews."
The writer was Winston Churchill. Though he would later sell his soul for considerably more than thirty pieces of silver, his analysis of the authentic nature of Soviet communism remains trenchant.
Churchill expressed the crucial insight that the crimes perpetrated by Jewish communists against Germans and Russians instilled in those people a desire for retribution:


"In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed, the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.


"The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people.
"...The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with villainies which are now being perpetrated...Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people." (End quote from Churchill).
"...a letter sent to the Vatican by Pius XII in 1919, when he was Bishop Eugenio Pacelli and papal nuncio in Munich...reports on his deputy's unpleasant encounter with Bolshevik revolutionaries who were then terrorizing Catholic priests and the German bourgeoisie. The letter describes the leader, Max Lieven as a '... Russian and a Jew.' The letter also describes Mr. Lieven's companions, '...Jews like the rest of them.'...Bishop Pacelli's description of Jewish Communists...was hardly uncommon 80 years ago." (N.Y. Times, Nov. 3, 1999).


Chaim Bermant, writing in the Jewish Chronicle (Aug. 30, 1991), says: "It was Communism which toppled the hated Czars, Communism which removed Jewish disabilities and proscribed anti-Semitism and Communism which, in its early days at least, opened the doors to Jewish advancement."


Lenin, whose maternal grandfather, Israel Blank, was Judaic, said that Judaics made the best revolutionaries: "The clever Russian is almost always a Jew or has Jewish blood in him." (Dmitri Volkogonov, Lenin: A New Biography, p. 112). Lenin was both clever and a revolutionary. He was surely referring to himself.
Researcher Wayne McGuire of Harvard University writes: "Lenin was a Jew by the standards of Israel's Law of Return: he possessed a Jewish grandparent. It would seem that not only was Lenin a Jew, but that he was a Jewish racist and chauvinist, although he kept his ideas on this volatile subject far in the background, probably because they were in radical conflict with the supposed universalism of Marxism.

...Lenin was a Jewish racist who deliberately gave Jews especially, the most 'intellectually demanding tasks.' He admitted that 50% of the communist terrorist vanguard in the south and west of Russia was comprised of Jews."
Lenin declared, "We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class." His partner in crime, Apfelbaum (Zinoviev) stated: "The interests of the revolution require the physical annihilation of the bourgeoisie class." Who were these bourgeoisie? Certainly not Jews. Trotsky gave a clue to their identity in a 1937 interview in the New York Jewish newspaper, Daily Forward: "The longer the rotten bourgeoisie society lives, the more and more barbaric will anti-Semitism become everywhere."


Bourgeoisie was a Bolshevik code-word for Gentile. The first law passed after the Communists seized power in Russia made anti-semitism a crime punishable by death. (Izvestia, July 27, 1918).
The top Communist Judaic official Zinoviev stated: "Without mercy, without sparing, we will kill our enemies in scores of hundreds. Let them be thousands; let them drown themselves in their own blood. For the blood of Lenin and Uritzky, Zinoviev and Vólodarsky, let there be floods of the blood of the bourgeoisie--more blood! As much as possible!" (Krasnaya Gazeta, Sept. 1, 1918).

The Judaic Bolsheviks regarded politics as a branch of Gentile pest control. Hatred of Christians, especially the peasant "bourgeoisie" was their prime motivation. The systematic destruction of the Christian peasantry of Russia as so many vermin, beginning with Lenin's attack on them in the summer of 1918 and his forced starvation in 1921, has been almost completely ignored in Western history.

According to the London, England "Jewish Chronicle" (Literary Supplement, Sept. 3, 1999, pp. iv and v) Jewish Communist writer Isaac Babel was present at a Soviet Communist gathering, "A meeting of...Jews...is being addressed by Commissar Vinogradov who is enthusiastically telling the...Jews: 'You are in power. Everything is yours." Babel also wrote of the "unbounded" Jewish "contempt for the Polish gentry."
According to the "Jewish Chronicle," Babel wrote for the Communist publication "Red Trooper" and a Soviet commissar related to him how they intended to deal with Cossacks: "The revolutionary curve has thrown into the first rank the free Cossacks soaked in many prejudices, but the Central Committee's maneuvering will rub them down with a brush of iron.' Babel expresses no opinion on the chances of successfully rubbing out the Cossacks' 'soaked-in prejudices,' a euphemistic term for vicious anti-Semitism..." ("Jewish Chronicle," Ibid.)
"In the last years of the '20s and the early '30s, Babel was regarded as one of the most notable talents in Soviet literature. Speaking at the first writers' congress in 1934...he made the expected avowals of loyalty and devotion to the revolution, the government and the state. He even praised Stalin's literary style." ("Jewish Chronicle," Ibid.)
In his story, "The Rabbi's Son," Babel places the portraits of Lenin and Rabbi Moses Maimonides side by side. He notes that the margins of Communist leaflets are crowded with "Hebrew verse."
The Siberian novelist Valentin Rasputin wrote in 1990: "I think today the Jews here in Russia should feel responsible for the sin of having carried out the revolution and for the shape it took. They should feel responsible for the terror--for the terror that existed during the revolution and especially after the revolution...their guilt is great. They perpetrated the relentless campaign against the peasant class whose land was brutally expropriated by the state and who themselves were ruthlessly murdered."

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's biographer recounts what it was like to grow up as a Russian Christian child among the children of the Jewish communist elite: "By the age of ten he had the cross ripped from his neck by jeering Pioneers and for over a year was held up to ridicule... Solzhenitsyn was, as a boy, exposed to students whose parents had an officially superior status. Most of the members of the Young Pioneers and Komsomol movements, at least in Rostov, were Jewish children..." (Michael Scammell, Solzhenitsyn: A Biography, p. 64).
According to the internationally-syndicated RNS wire service (reprinted in "The Christian News," Jan. 8, 1996, p. 2), "Some 200,000 (Christian) clergy, many crucified, scalped and otherwise tortured, were killed during the approximately 60 years of communist rule in the former Soviet Union, a Russian commission reported Monday (Nov. 27, 1995)...40,000 churches (were) destroyed in the period from 1922 to 1980..."
Here is the most genocidal political movement in world history, which created the largest concentration camps and the most horrendous slave labor system of the 20th century, in which millions of gentiles and Christians were slaughtered (on the size of the Gulag concentration camp system cf. C. Andrew and O. Gordievsky, KGB: The Inside Story and N.Y. Times, Oct. 22, 1990, p. 82. None of these camps are being preserved for posterity. Most were destroyed long ago by special military brigades; cf. Michael Specter, "Cold Reminder," N.Y. Times, Dec. 3, 1994).

This was a movement staffed in its upper echelons by Judaic Communists and yet the world is comparatively silent about the holocaust and war crimes this thoroughly kosher system inflicted and the identity of the persons who were its architects.

Auschwitz is on the tip of every tongue but who has heard of Kolyma, Magadan, the Solovetsky islands and the other infernal Soviet centers of human destruction in eastern Siberia? Who has seen films and books about the millions of human beings worked, frozen and starved to death in the construction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal, over which stood a triumphant, colossal statue of the Judaic Communist mass murderer Genrikh Yagoda?
The Judaic Communist epoch of mass murder has disappeared into history in one of the great vanishing acts of all time. Only practiced deceivers, with all the sleight of hand of the most accomplished stage magicians, could pull off such a coup against the rest of humanity. To trick mankind into focusing nearly all expiatory sentiment, monuments and commemoration on Judaic victims and brand the Mark of Cain--the very words war crime and holocaust itself--on Germany and upon Germans alone as their proprietary trademark, must be regarded as one of the most masterful achievements of psychological warfare in the annals of illusion.


Israeli power has expanded commensurate with the expansion of "Holocaust" propaganda, as noted by the Israeli author Moshe Leshem: "Israelis and American Jews fully agree that the memory of the Holocaust is an indispensable weapon--one that must be used relentlessly against their common enemy...Jewish organizations and individuals thus labor continuously to remind the world of it. In America, the perpetuation of the Holocaust memory is now a $100-million-a-year enterprise, part of which is government-funded." ( Balaam's Curse, p. 228)
This is why Edgar Bronfman, the billionaire Canadian Seagram's whiskey merchant and chairman of the powerful World Jewish Congress says, "The growing numbers of revisionist supporters cannot be ignored. We must use every resource to stop revisionism now, before it's too late."
The reason it must be stopped is because revisionism could prevent the holy people from finishing the job they started in Russia and Bavaria, only this time they are using intellectual means to achieve the same end.
Consider the fact that the people who bear the brunt of contemporary Jewish racist hatred and invective, the Germans, have among the lowest birthrates and the highest abortion rates of any nation in the world. Far more Germans die every year than are born.

The self-hating Germans are not the only targets of corrosive gas chamber guilt, however. Organized Christianity (more accurately called Churchianity) nowadays is little more than one huge turkey flock, truckling, toadying and crawling in search of Judaic sanctification and approbation. Their savior called the Jewish leadership of his time, "the children of hell" (Matthew 23:15) but those who presume to speak in His name today, call them the saints and sages of the cosmos.
Only in such a profoundly falsified world soaked in fraud could the international media sit by, uninterested, as the great-great grandson of the blood-drenched Jewish Red Army commander Leon Trotsky, David Axelrod, shot to death an elderly Palestinian couple in November of 1990, as part of an Israeli, "Kach" terror group raid.
But imagine--if you can--the hubbub if a grandson of a Nazi war criminal had shot a Turkish couple in Germany.

The weeping, wailing and never-ending references to "Never Forget" and "lessons of history" would seep out of the collective TV sets of the earth like waste from a toxic septic tank, because what is clear from such a double standard is that the true lessons of history are not being learned and recollection itself is hostage to the diorama of Zionist monomania.

Sixteen million ethnic Germans were forcibly expelled from Silesia, Moravia and the Volga regions of the eastern territories at the end of the Second World War. On this trail of tears, two million perished--shot to death, starved, raped and beaten. Ask one in one thousand, one in ten thousand people on the street today-- "Have you heard?" The answer will be no.
The Steven Spielberg movie images of cattle cars jammed with human cargo are reserved for Jewish victims alone. The 800,000 mostly Muslim Chechens deported by Judaic commissars and savagely stuffed into railway cars to Kazakhstan, where a quarter of a million died enroute, do not meet Hollywood's standard of cinematic focus.


The Soviet cattle car deportations afflicted more than a half-million Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian Christians who were shipped to the Gulag. 12% of the entire Baltic population was either deported to Siberia or executed by the Jewish Soviet Secret Police. Who knows of it? Who cares? Who tries to keep this history from repeating? Instead, in 1995 the president of Lithuania made a pilgrimage to the Israeli gas chamber shrine at Yad Vashem to grovel and beg "forgiveness" for his people who were the victims of the Jewish Communist murderers. To seek forgiveness in all humility is ordained when it is predicated on the truth. To do so based on false witness in order to idolize the Pharisees is a mockery of justice.
In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of the total population (Stuart Kahan, The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81)
The following is a list of some top Judaic Communist murderers, commissars, spies, assassins and propagandists (aliases are listed in parentheses). This list is by no means comprehensive. To catalog all of the Judaic Communist involved in crimes would require hundreds of pages.




Judaic Communists

V.I. Lenin, supreme dictator. Leon Bronstein (Trotsky): supreme commander of the Soviet Red Army. Grigory Apfelbaum (Zinoviev): executive, Soviet Secret Police. Solomon Lozovsky: deputy Soviet foreign minister. Maxim Wallach (Litvinov): Soviet foreign minister. Yuri Andropov: director, Soviet KGB, later supreme dictator of the Soviet Union.
Jacob Sverdlov: first president of the Soviet Union. Sverdlov ordered the massacre of the Czar's family--women and children--in the town named after Catherine the Great, Yekaterinburg, (renamed Sverdlovsk in 1924 in honor of the murderer).
Jacob Yurovsky: commander, Soviet Secret Police. Yurovsky led the death squad which carried out Sverdlov's order for the murder of the Czar's family, including the bayoneting to death of the Czar's daughters. The Ipatyev house, where, in the basement, the massacre had occurred, stood intact until 1977, when the local Communist party boss at that time, Boris Yeltsin, ordered it demolished, lest it become a shrine to anti-Jewish sentiment.
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/kagonovich.GIFLazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich (pictured at left): chief mass murderer for Stalin, ordered the deaths of millions and the wholesale destruction of Christian monuments and churches, including the great Cathedral of Christ the Savior. Standing amid the rubble of the cathedral, Kaganovich proclaimed, "Mother Russia is cast down. We have ripped away her skirts." (N.Y. Times, Sept. 26, 1995).
Mikhail Kaganovich: deputy commissar of heavy industry, supervisor of slave labor, brother of Lazar. Rosa Kaganovich: Stalin's mistress; sister of Lazar. Paulina Zhemchuzina: member of the Central Committee and wife of Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov. Olga Bronstein: officer, Soviet Cheka Secret Police, sister of Trotsky, wife of Kamenev.
Genrikh Yagoda: chief of Soviet Secret Police, mass murderer extraordinaire. (Jewish poet Romain Rolland, winner of the Nobel Prize, wrote a hymn of praise to Yagoda).
Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel: founders, the Gulag death camp system.
Lev Inzhir, commissar for Soviet death camp transit and administration. Boris Berman: executive officer of the Soviet Secret Police and brother of Matvei. K.V. Pauker: chief of operations, Soviet NKVD Secret Police.
Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk: commissars of death camps and slave labor, supervised the mass deaths of laborers during the construction of the White Sea--Baltic Canal.
M.I. Gay: commander, Soviet Secret Police. Slutsky and Shpiegelglas: commanders, Soviet Secret Police. Isaac Babel: officer, Soviet Secret Police.
Leiba Lazarevich Feldbin (Aleksandr Orlov): commander, Soviet Red Army; officer, Soviet Secret Police. Feldbin was chief of Soviet Security in the Spanish Civil War. He supervised the massacre of Catholic priests and peasants in Spain.
Yona Yakir: general, Soviet Red Army, member of the Central Committee. Dimitri Shmidt: general, Soviet Red Army. Yakov ("Yankel") Kreiser: general, Soviet Red Army. Miron Vovsi: general, Soviet Red Army.
David Dragonsky: general, Soviet Red Army, Hero of the Soviet Union. Grigori Shtern: general, Soviet Red Army. Mikhail Chazkelevich: general, Soviet Red Army. Shimon Kirvoshein: general, Soviet Red Army. Arseni Raskin: deputy-commander, Soviet Red Army. Haim Fomin, commander of Brest-Litovsk, Soviet Red Army. At least one hundred Soviet generals were Jewish (cf. Canadian Jewish News, April 19, 1989).
Generals who were not themselves Jewish often had Jewish wives.

eternal_spirit
16-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Among these were Marshal Voroshilov, Marshal Bulganin, Marshal Peresypkin and General Pavel Sudoplatov (Sudoplatov assassinated hundreds of Christian leaders including Ukranian Catholic Archbishop Teodor Romzha). This Jewish wife "insurance policy" extended to Politburo members such as Andrei Andreyev and Leonoid Brezhnev.
Sergei Eisenstein: director of communist propaganda films which depicted Christian peasants (kulaks) as hideous, money-grabbing parasites. The kulaks were subsequently massacred. (Cf. for example Eisenstein's Bezhin Meadow).
KOMZET: commission for the settlement of Jewish Communists on land seized from murdered Christians in Ukraine; funded by Jewish-American financier Julius Rosenwald.
Ilya Ehrenburg, Minister of Soviet Propaganda and disseminator of anti-German hate material dating from the 1930s. Ehrenburg instigated the Soviet Red Army rape and murder of German civilians. Referring to German women, Ehrenburg gloated to the advancing Red Army troops, "that blonde hag is in for a bad time."
In a leaflet addressed to Soviet troops, Ehrenburg wrote: "...the Germans are not human beings...nothing gives us so much joy as German corpses." (Anatol Goldberg, Ilya Ehrenburg, p. 197). Goldberg concedes that Ehrenburg, "...had always disliked the Germans...now that there was a war on he turned his old prejudice into an asset." (Ibid., p. 193).
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/khaldei.GIFAnother publication distributed to the Red Army, this time as the soldiers approached Danzig, was described by a historian: "Millions of leaflets were air-dropped on the troops with a message composed by the propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg and signed by Stalin: 'Soldiers of the Red Army! Kill the Germans! Kill all Germans! Kill! Kill! Kill!" (Christopher Duffy, Red Storm on the Reich).
The Soviet leadershipacknowledged that Ehrenburg sought the extermination of the entire German people (cf. Pravda, April 14, 1945. [Pravda was also published in a Yiddish edition, Einikeyt). Ehrenburg won the Order of Lenin and the Stalin Prize. He willed his papers to the Israeli Yad Vashem 'Holocaust' Museum.
Solomon Mikhoels: commissar of Soviet propaganda. Soviet film propagandists: Mark Donsky, Leonid Lukov, Yuli Reisman, Vasily Grossman,Yevgeny Gabrilovich, Boris Volchokand Lillian Hellman (old movies written by her continue to be broadcast on American telelvision).
Soviet propagandist: Yevgeny Khaldei who staged the photo of the raising of the hammer and sickle flag over the Reichstag in Berlin, May 2, 1945. Afterward, a special plane was waiting to fly Khaldei, Stalin's top Tass photographer, to a Moscow lab, where his photo was further doctored (loot displayed on one of the Soviet soldier's wrists was removed in the negative and Khaldei added clouds and smoke to the scene for dramatic effect (see photo of Khaldei and his beloved flag at left). Khaldei continued to work as a premier Soviet propagandist until his retirement from Pravda in 1972. His Communist propaganda is proudly on display at the Jewish Museum of New York and the Jewish Museum of San Francisco. N.Y. Times writer Vicki Goldberg exulted in the raising of the blood-drenched Soviet flag, emblem of the slaughter of millions of peasants and Christians; describing it as, "...a national (and worldwide) symbol of triumph, justice and revenge." (Jan. 31, 1997, p. B-26).
Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC): new form of the Bolshevik YEVKOM, Stalin's recruiting conduit for funding money, supplies and political influence for Soviet Russia from world Jewry as well as the dissemination of gas chamber atrocity propaganda (cf. The Black Book).
Nikolai Bukharin: Lenin's chief theorist. Samuel Agursky: commissar. Karl Radek: member, Central Committee. Mikhail Gruzenberg (Borodin) commissar. A.A. Yoffe: commissar. David Ryazanov: advisor to Lenin. Lev Grigorievich Levin: physician, poisoner of Stalin's enemies. Lev Rosenfeld (Kamenev): member of the Central Committee.
Ivan Maisky: Soviet Ambassador to Britain. Itzik Solomonovich Feffer: commissar, Soviet Secret Police. Abraham Sutskever: Soviet terrorist-partisan. Mark Osipovich Reizen: Soviet propagandist, winner of three Stalin Prizes. Lev Leopold Trepper: Soviet espionage officer.
Bela Kun (Kohen): supreme dictator of Hungary in 1919. Kun was later Stalin's chief terrorist in the Crimea. Kun's eventual successor was Matyas Rakosi, Jewish Communist mass murderer of Christians in Hungary. According to the Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, Jews "...played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime's top five leaders were Jews. "
Zakharovich Mekhlis: top executioner for Stalin. Henrykas Zimanas: leader of Lithuanian communist terrorists, butcher of Christians.
Moshe Pijade (sometimes spelled Piade): commander, Yugoslav Communist People's Army. Tito's top butcher of hundreds of thousands of Croatian Christians. Pijade later served as president of the Yugoslav Communist Parliament. At least eighteen generals in the Yugoslav Communist People's Army were Jewish. The Yugoslavian communist party sent massive arms shipments to Jewish fighters in Palestine in the 1940s.
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/berman.GIFIn post-war Poland that nation was completely dominated by Jewish communists: the torturer Jacek Rozanski, head of the Secret Police; the Politboro commander Jacob Berman (pictured at right)
and commissars Minc, Specht (Olszewski) and Spychalski. These men murdered or deported to Kolyma and the other Arctic death camps, tens of thousands of Catholic Poles.
According to Jewish researcher John Sack, "In 1945 many Poles felt (and not without reason) that Jews ran the Office of State Security...the chief of the Office was Jacob Berman, a Jew, and all or almost all the department heads were Jews." Sack reports that 75% of the officers of the Communist Secret Police in Silesia were Jews. He noted that many Jews in the Communist terror apparatus in Poland changed their names to Polish ones like General Romkowski, Colonel Rozanski, Capt. Studencki and Lt. Jurkowski. (cf. John Sack, The New Republic, Feb. 14, 1994, p. 6. Sack in this article also refutes some shoddy research performed by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, author of Hitler's Willing Executioners, who, in the double standard typical of the Jewish mentality, (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wash.html) refuses to accept the proven fact that Jews ran the Polish Communist secret police even as Goldhagen asserts the racist myth that the entire German nation was guilty of genocide. Sack does a good job of proving Goldhagen wrong about Poland).
In Poland, "...a disproportionate number of Communists were Jews. In 1930, at its peak, 35% of the members of the party were Jewish. In Communist youth organizations, Jewish membership was even higher, while Communists of Jewish origin occupied most of the seats on the central committee. Communism appealed to some Jews because it opposed anti-Semitism more vigorously than any other Polish party...Jewish Communists reached their apogee in the years immediately after World War Two, when the party leadership was totally in the hands of the prewar Communist leadership that abhorred anti-Semitism." (Sheldon Kirshner, The Canadian Jewish News, Nov. 5, 1992, p. 16).
Of course when one encounters the issue of Judaics, Communists and Catholics in Poland in the Establishment media or universities today, the mass murder of the Polish Catholics at the hands of the Jewish Communists, is never raised. Instead, a minor attack on Jews by Polish peasants enraged at the role of Jews in Communist terror, which occurred in July, 1946 at Kielce and which has come to be called the "Kielce pogrom" will be the centerpiece of the "discussion. " The motivation for the attack is not usually mentioned. Rather, the Catholic peasantry are painted in terms of "fiendish bigots" whose "blind, irrational hate" for the "poor, persecuted Jews" resulted in "yet another martyrdom of God's Chosen."
But the Catholic Primate of Poland at the time, Cardinal Hlond, a brave prelate in a stalwart tradition of Christian resistance to Jewish tyranny in Poland, (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/pope1.html) so different from the traitorous philo-Judaism of the current Pontiff, stated that the attack in Kielce occurred because of resentment 'due to the Jews who today occupy leading positions in Poland's (Communist) government and endeavor to introduce a governmental structure that the majority of Poles do not wish to have." (Ibid., Kirshner).
As Piotr S. Wandycz of Yale University observes, "The average Pole could not but notice in the Stalinist era that the two most powerful men in the country--Berman and Minc--were both Jewish as was the dreaded security official Rozanski." (N.Y. Review of Books, Aug. 18, 1983, p. 51).
With this record it is interesting to note that the Polish occupant of the papacy, John Paul II, consistently lent his prestige and his presence to canonizations and commemorations of politically correct victims of the Nazis. Nowhere did this Pope breath a word about the openly Jewish, Communist massacres of Polish Catholics, Spanish Catholics, Croatian Catholics, Lithuanian Catholics--he was too busy, intoning the Shoah, referring to the heirs of the Pharisees as "our Elder Brothers in the Faith" giving official recognition to an Israeli state which even many orthodox, Haredi rabbis regard as a blasphemous and abominable entity, and attacking the German people as "the image of the beast."
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/morel.GIF
Solomon Morel (pictured at left): commandant of a post-war Communist concentration camp for Germans in Poland. Stalin deliberately put Jews in charge of such camps. Morel tortured and murdered thousands of Germans, sometimes with his bare hands (cf. "The Wrath of Solomon," Village Voice, March 30, 1993 and John Sack, An Eye for an Eye). Morel is comfortably esconsed in Tel Aviv. German survivors of Morel's camp have demanded he be tried as a war criminal, but for the Establishment media and the phony, partisan, "human rights" groups, bringing Morel to justice is simply a non-issue. After all, he murdered helpless Germans, so what's the problem?
Julius Hammer, M.D.: New York abortionist and co-founder of the American communist party. Armand Hammer: fundraiser and financier for Lenin and Stalin, son of Julius. "The Communist Party was also the most Jewish party in America. At least nineteen percent of the Young Communist League were Jews and never less than forty percent of its leadership." (Source: "Pakn Treger: From Yiddish Roots to the Frontiers of Jewish Culture," Fall 1997, p. 18).
Lev Davidovich Landau: Stalinist physicist, co-father of the Soviet atomic bomb. Klaus Fuchs: helped steal atomic bomb secrets for Stalin. Ruth Werner: colonel, Red Army GRU intelligence, assisted Fuchs. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg: stole American atomic bomb secrets for Stalin. Morris Cohen (Peter Kroger): assisted the Rosenbergs. Markus Wolf: chief of German Communist Stasi Secret Police.
Howard Fast: American communist propagandist for Stalin. David Dubinsky: Stalin's ally, head of the U.S. International Ladies Garment Workers Union. Nahum Goldmann: founder, World Jewish Congress, communist propagandist. Rabbi Moses Rosen: agent, Romanian communist party. Victor Rothschild: top British espionage agent for Stalin.
Mark Zborowski: "...considered by historians of Soviet terror operations to have been the most fearsome...(Soviet) spy of all time" (Stephen Schwartz, Forward, Jan. 26, 1996). Zborowski, a medical researcher, murdered a dissident with a poisoned orange at the Soviet-run hospital in Paris. Zborowski was implicated in several other assassinations in 1936 and 1937. In the 1940s worked for both the American Jewish Committee and the KGB. In the 1960s Zborowski worked as a medical researcher at Mount Zion Hospital in San Francisco. He trained numerous psychiatrists and medical specialists in the Bay Area. He died in 1990 (cf. "The Strange Case of Doctor Zborowski and Monsieur Etienne" by Philippe Videlier, in Le Monde Diplomatique, Dec. 1992).
From 1936-1939, when Stalin's "International Brigade" forces were dispatched to Spain to fight the Catholics, Jewish Communists comprised the largest faction of his troops, "More than 40,000 volunteers fought in the International Brigade...A huge number of the volunteers were Jews: between 7,000 and 10,000 of the Internationals as a whole, more than one-third of the Americans." Jewish Communist Milton Wolff was the last commander of the American contingent. Rabbi Hyman Katz joined in order to fight Spanish Christians. (cf. Jeffrey Sharlet, "Troublemakers," Pakn Treger, Fall, 1997, pp. 16, 18 and 24).
The Communists slaughtered 6,549 Spanish priests, 283 helpless nuns and 13 bishops. "In Ciudad Real in the center of Spain, the bishop and every single priest of the diocese were murdered; not one escaped." --Dr. Warren H. Carroll, 70 Years of the Communist Revolution, pp. 184-185, 188-189. (Also cf. Justo Perez de Urbel, Catholic Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War [Kansas City, Missouri: The Angelus Press, 1993).
Stalin's propaganda agent in Spain was New Yorker Leon Rosenthal.
On Oct. 16, 1948, 50,000 Jewish communists turned out in Moscow's Red Square to welcome the first Israeli delegation to Moscow. Stalin supported Zionism's 1947 Palestine partition plan, gave crucial recognition to the newly-created state of Israel and voted for Israel's admission to the United Nations.
In 1951 communist and Marxist parties had twenty-three seats in the Israeli Knesset. The kibbutz system was the most powerful movement in the country and the most powerful kibbutz leaders were nearly all Marxists. The biggest Israeli holiday was May Day, celebrated with rallies, marches, red banners and red songs.
As recently as 1987 the Israelis were providing the KGB with American intelligence secrets (cf. UPI dispatch by Richard Sale, Dec. 13, 1987 and The City Paper [Washington, DC], Jan. 15, 1988). Jonathan Jay Pollard was part of one such spy ring. British traitor and Communist spy Kim Philby was assisted in obtaining safe haven in the Soviet Union by the Israeli Mossad (cf. Sunday Telegraph [England], April 16, 1989). This was most appropriate since Philby's KGB handler in Moscow was also Jewish.
Romania's communist regime received favorable trade deals from the U.S. for years due to Israeli pressure on Congress in its behalf (N.Y. Times, Jan. 18, 1992, p. 23). The notion that the Zionist Jewish movement was anti-communist is a fallacy. The truth is more complex. There was a left wing and a right wing within Zionism. The rightists, like the terrorists Jabotinsky and Stern, took a fascist approach. Leftist Zionists like David "I am a Bolshevik" Ben-Gurion admired the Soviet model of Jewish power and sought to incorporate it as the political economy of the Israeli state.
"National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism...under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).
The African National Congress (ANC) in South Africa was guided by two Communist Jews, Albie Sachs, "one of its foremost intellectuals"( London Sunday Times, Aug. 29, 1993) and Yossel Mashel Slovo (Joe Slovo).
Slovo was born in a shtetl in Lithuania and grew up speaking Yiddish and studying the Talmud. He joined the ANC's terrorist wing, the Umkhonto we Sizwe, in 1961 and eventually became its commander. He was named Secretary General of the South African Communist Party in 1986. ("Joe Slovo," Jewish Chronicle, Jan. 13, 1995).
Slovo had been the " planner of many of the ANC terrorist attacks, including the 1983 car bomb that killed 19 people and injured many others... Slovo, who had traveled to the Soviet Union many times, was awarded a Soviet medal on his 60th birthday...Slovo is a dedicated Communist, a Marxist Leninist without morality of any kind, for whom only victory counts, whatever the human cost, whatever the bloodshed...Slovo disputes little of his image as 'the Communist mastermind' behind the ANC's armed struggle. For him the fears of South Africa's whites are both a measure of the ANC's growing strength and a crucial factor in hastening what he believes will be its ultimate victory. 'Revolutionary violence has created the inspirational impact that we had intended, and it has won for the ANC its leading position,' Slovo said." ("Rebel Strategist Seeks to End Apartheid," L.A. Times, Aug. 16, 1987, p. 14). When Nelson Mandela's ANC took over South Africa, Slovo was named Minister of Housing.
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/slovo2.GIF





















Nelson Mandela and Joe Slovo give the clenched fist salute in front of the blood-drenched Hammer and Sickle flag of Bolshevism. Slovo, a Yiddish-speaking Lithuanian 'Jew,' was Secretary General of the South African Communist Party and director of the military wing of the ANC, which perpetrated numerous terror bombings against white civilians.
When we look at these gruesome personalities, who are only the tip of the Jewish iceberg that was Soviet Communism and who were responsible for the deaths of upwards of thirty million people; when we realize how little is written or filmed about their crimes, we begin to realize that the exclusive focus on the crimes of the Germans, real and imagined, is a function of propaganda.
If the facts about the Jewish Communist holocaust against the peasants and Christians of Russia and Eastern Europe were given massive publicity, the supposed "special evil" of the Germans would stand exposed as a racist fraud.
German actions during World War Two must be viewed in a vacuum in order for the New World Order to advance its covert objective of Jewish supremacy.
When Nazi actions are placed within the context of Jewish Communism's abominable crimes against the Christian people of Russia and Eastern Europe, the public will begin to understand that Hitler and the Nazis were a reaction, however unbalanced and excessive, to the Jewish Communist genocide against millions of Christians and peasants in the East.
This is why the crucial facts about Jewish Communism must never be documented in Hollywood films, discussed in university courses or pictured in contemporary news magazines. This is why Malcolm Muggeridge's book, an eyewitness account of the Jewish Communist holocaust against Christians, Winter in Moscow, has been tightly suppressed.
In the Sunday Telegraph (London, England: Nov. 18, 1990) the question is asked, "Why then has it (Winter in Moscow) never been republished? The answer may lie in Muggeridge's handling of what was then called the 'Jewish question.'...Winter in Moscow is acutely concerned with Jews...It was of course the case that a very disproportionate number of the early Bolsheviks were Jews and thus of commissars and apparatchiki..."
Our documentation of these forbiden facts constitutes the chief motivation for the suppression attempts of such Stalinist censorship groups as the A.D.L. and Simon Wiesenthal Center. Both of these organizations would, if they could, have this writer jailed for publishing the documentation herein in Germany, France, or Austria. They regularly supply "intelligence files" to those governments on pro-Christian and pro-German writers. In 1995 the ADL sought to assist the prosecution of 69 year old American writer Hans Schmidt who was imprisoned in Germany for publishing a newsletter in Florida. These Judaic censors would like to have similar laws passed worldwide, resulting in the jailing of more writers and researchers who will not toe the party line or worship the Golden Calf.
To give the other side of history, the revisionist side--to give voice to the voiceless millions of dead victims of Judaic Communism--is regarded as "hateful" by the vain Zionists who demand for themselves the right to vomit forth a daily barrage of sewage upon the sacred memory of our grandparents and ancestors. To defend against the dishonoring of our heritage and our ancestors, is surely not hate; it is the right of self-defense against psychological warfare.


http://www.revisionisthistory.org/communist.html

montage
28-05-2011, 10:02 PM
http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/montana_de_cadaveres_en_un_gulag_sovietico.jpg
No, these are not Jewish bodiesDead in the Red Soviet Gulag

Are they Germans? Finns? Ukrainians?


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/trialRichPeasants.jpg
Here's your "criminals"Peasants the Jewish communists wanted off their land


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/ukrainefamineholodomor.jpg
Ukrainian victims - starved on purpose

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/3holodomor.jpg
The world knewStill, the Soviets became our ally and "friend":mad:


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/ukr_children_small.jpg
Ukrainian ChildrenMillions were starved to death

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/photo01-s.jpg http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/famine_stamp4-s.jpg

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/soviet_crimes.htm

more pics and info at link

Y'know, passing Nazi concentration camps pics off as GULAG labour camps and passing Civil War famine in 1921 in Russia as Stalin's period Ukraine famine ain't good, cos telling thumpers is very unfair. If you want to debunk something, bring normal arguments and evidences instead of propaganda materials and fake photos. Just an advice, cos sometimes you may encounter people who can actually delve in what you have written, and check out the origins of your ''evidences''.

The first pic isn't from Gulag and other photos are not from the Ukrainian famine. The first picture is from the Nazi concentration camp Dachau, this photo was made from different angles and if u check the back you may notice that it is exactly the same, besides the Soviet Gulags didn't have buildings made of bricks, they used lumber. Plus on closer view oа the photo u may notice striped clothing weared by some prisoners. Prisoners of GULAG did not wear such cloth, only Nazi camps famouse for it.

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Images/DachauCol3.gif

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Witnesses/DachEng.html

The same photo is also here:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?42

http://monksmerrymonastery.blogspot.com/2008/06/dachau.html

http://nnm.ru/blogs/girlfriendHudo/pomnit_chtoby_ne_povtorit/

http://www.btinternet.com/~ablumsohn/story.htm

Now let's take a look at the pictures #3, #5 and # 6/7. These pics are from the same album and they were not made during the Stalin's times. These pictures are from Geneve Album, the album which was presented in 1922. And as you can see in text under the picture, it is october 1921. Why you do not show the sign under the thirdy photo?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Victims_of_the_1921_famine_in_Russia_-_Nansen.jpg

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_sovi%C3%A9tique_de_1921-1922

Moreover it is not Ukraine all these photos are from the famine in Russia in 1921 (the Volga Region). But in 1921 Russia was burning in the fire of the Civil War, and 3 years before it occured, Russia was involved in the World War I and had 2 revolutions. So it was not deliberate killing, it was the historical circumstances.

snoopsnuffleopagus
08-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Yoo hoo!!!!!! eternal spirit, where is your response to this Scholars counterarguments, exposing this Thread as a big steaming turd of dissembling and specious Data.......devoid of truth and love for your fellow humans........what do you say?

The scholar says your Data is Bullshit, what say you?

:)

eternal_spirit
08-06-2011, 08:57 PM
You deniers are sick bigots. I don't for one moment take anything said seriously or truthfull by a guy with his Communist hero avatar or a Talmudic Zionist who spams with huge red text.
http://www.saveyourheritage.com/soviet_crimes.htm
readers can view the link to see how "Montage" has twisted words and taken things out of context.
Beware of their lies folks.

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/141_245a_gulag_map_vertical.jpg
Soviet Gulag System


http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/sistema_gulag.jpg
Soviet Gulag System - Siberia
Siberia is cold and forbidding
A nice place to kill off your "undesirables"


At least fourteen million passed through the gulag system from 1929 to 1953
At least seven million more were exiled


Most historians agree that close to 60 million died under Stalin (1924-1953)
some by torture, some outright murder, millions by starvation
Nine million died before that under Lenin (1917-1923)
That's close to 70 million Russians killed by Jewish communists
What a holocaust!

thoreau
08-06-2011, 09:04 PM
gotta admit montage makes a bloody good point regarding the writing and dating under the pictures.

rodin
08-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Y'know, passing Nazi concentration camps pics off as GULAG labour camps and passing Civil War famine in 1921 in Russia as Stalin's period Ukraine famine ain't good, cos telling thumpers is very unfair. If you want to debunk something, bring normal arguments and evidences instead of propaganda materials and fake photos. Just an advice, cos sometimes you may encounter people who can actually delve in what you have written, and check out the origins of your ''evidences''.

The first pic isn't from Gulag and other photos are not from the Ukrainian famine. The first picture is from the Nazi concentration camp Dachau, this photo was made from different angles and if u check the back you may notice that it is exactly the same, besides the Soviet Gulags didn't have buildings made of bricks, they used lumber. Plus on closer view oа the photo u may notice striped clothing weared by some prisoners. Prisoners of GULAG did not wear such cloth, only Nazi camps famouse for it.

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Images/DachauCol3.gif

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Witnesses/DachEng.html

The same photo is also here:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?42

http://monksmerrymonastery.blogspot.com/2008/06/dachau.html

http://nnm.ru/blogs/girlfriendHudo/pomnit_chtoby_ne_povtorit/

http://www.btinternet.com/~ablumsohn/story.htm

Now let's take a look at the pictures #3, #5 and # 6/7. These pics are from the same album and they were not made during the Stalin's times. These pictures are from Geneve Album, the album which was presented in 1922. And as you can see in text under the picture, it is october 1921. Why you do not show the sign under the thirdy photo?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Victims_of_the_1921_famine_in_Russia_-_Nansen.jpg

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_sovi%C3%A9tique_de_1921-1922

Moreover it is not Ukraine all these photos are from the famine in Russia in 1921 (the Volga Region). But in 1921 Russia was burning in the fire of the Civil War, and 3 years before it occured, Russia was involved in the World War I and had 2 revolutions. So it was not deliberate killing, it was the historical circumstances.

An acquaintance of Heinrich Himmler, who later fell into disfavor and was executed, Rascher was an active participant in the grotesque so-called "medical experiments" at Dachau. These included immersing prisoners in cold water until they succumbed, or evacuating a chamber to simulate high altitudes until the screaming prisoner died.

Removing air would cause the victim to lose consciousness. I don't think they could be 'screaming'. Also how would sound escape a sealed and evacuated chamber?

http://img11.nnm.ru/a/7/1/4/3/fd9f504e0d974717972995906e7_prev.jpg

http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19911216/19911216-750-136.jpg

dogsmilk
08-06-2011, 11:15 PM
You deniers are sick bigots. I don't for one moment take anything said seriously or truthfull by a guy with his Communist hero avatar

Montage made a well observed post rationally explaining why you had posted bullshit. And your response is to say they are wrong because they have Che Guevara as their avatar. And then link to one of your impressive array of race-obsessed crank sites.

A classic Eternal Bigot post.

eternal_spirit
09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Montage made a well observed post rationally explaining why you had posted bullshit. And your response is to say they are wrong because they have Che Guevara as their avatar. And then link to one of your impressive array of race-obsessed crank sites.

A classic Eternal Bigot post.
His location is Russia too lol.

One pic wow. Probably a mistake on the behalf of who ever made that site. Or a bit of deliberate naughtiness. besides montage's claim may be full of shit.

But in no way disproves all the other many pics and info neither do your silly comments.

Eternal bigot how unorignal and untrue yawnzzzz.

Race? Yes there were many racist Jews who were top members of Communist groups giving out orders to kill 10 of millions of people. 66 million according to some figures.


Stalin and his Commie Jews helped set up Isreal they're still killing Palestinians now bulldozing their homes ethnically cleansing and comitting genocide, stealing their lands - nothing changes does it. Just a different country.

bowtiedaddy
19-06-2011, 03:30 AM
That's close to 70 million Russians killed by Jewish communists

You forget, my friend, that the Jews were being murdered by the Russians in massive droves for decades, including after the Commies took over. I personally knew Jews who had fled Soviet Russia because they were about to be thrown in a Gulag for being anti-Communists who adhered to Judiasm. (they left lucrative careers in Russia as doctors and college professors to be fry cooks at McDonalds and gas station clerks over here) Who the hell do you think Ayn Rand is? She fled the Soviets, was an ethnic Jew, and went on to be one of the most prominant anti-Communist voices for the last century. You can prove your point at how murderous Communists are without injecting racist idiocy into it.

A more productive argument would point out that Communism has killed even more people than Nazism. We rightly recognize how evil Nazism was, so we should rationally understand Communism's place in the equation.

That whole debate was one evil murdering system pitted up against another of the same. It wasn't a competition of who was good or bad, but simply who could kill and destroy more people than the other.

You have some sort of strange obessesion with racial groups and religions. Ever met a Jew? Grow up. Ever talked to a Jewish person who fled the Soviets before the USSR fell? They were being persecuted by the Communists, you fool. The Communists outlawed all religion, including Judiasm.

rodin
19-06-2011, 09:30 AM
...We rightly recognize how evil Nazism was...

No we don't. We are forced to swallow a whopper in the form of the Holocaust.

Stalin was half Jew and he was murdered by his Jewish doctors so yes there were pressures between Jewish interests. But communism was a Jew operation through and through, that much is even admitted by Churchill, half Jewish himself.

Thing is, both the 'Zionist' and 'Communist' factions, while opposing each other to some extent, were set up by the same over-arching Sanhedrin of Satan.

tinyint
19-06-2011, 09:44 AM
Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (Polish: Feliks Dzierżyński [ˈfɛliks dʑerˈʐɨɲski], Russian: Феликс Эдмундович Дзержинский; 11 September [O.S. 30 August] 1877–July 20, 1926) was a Communist revolutionary, famous as the first director of the Bolshevik secret police, the Cheka, known later by many names during the history of the Soviet Union. The agency became notorious for torture and mass summary executions, performed especially during the Red Terror and the Russian Civil War.[1][2]

(...)

Felix Dzerzhinsky was born into a purported Polish szlachta (noble) family of the Samson coat of arms. His father was a Polish Jew named Rufin who bought the property of a Polish nobleman Dzierżyński from the Russian Tsar after it was confiscated by the Russian authorities. Young Dzerzhinsky grew up at the Dziarzhynava estate near Ivyanets and Rakaw in Western Belarus (in present-day Minsk Voblast), then part of the Russian Empire. As a youngster Dzerzhinsky was fluent in three languages Polish, Russian and Yiddish.

(...)

He was arrested for his revolutionary activities during 1897 and 1900, sent to Siberia, but escaped both times. He then travelled to Berlin and met with Rosa Luxemburg and Leo Jogiches, two prominent leaders of the Polish Social Democratic movement. They gained control of the party organization through the creation of a committee called the Komitet Zagraniczny - KZ, which dealt with the party's foreign relations. As secretary of the KZ, Dzerzhinsky was able to dominate the SDKPiL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dzerzhinsky


"We represent in ourselves organized terror -- this must be said very clearly."[13] and “[The Red Terror involves] the terrorization, arrests and extermination of enemies of the revolution on the basis of their class affiliation or of their pre-revolutionary roles.”

Investigate him, and his connections to the british secret service.

"Just round up all the most resolute people you can, who understand that there is nothing more effective than a bullet in the head to shut people up. Experience has shown that you only need a small number of people like that the turn a whole situation around,"

In order to undermine Russian refugee organizations hostile to the communist regime in Moscow, Dzerzhinsky invented and controlled false counterrevolutionary organizations, staged jail breaks of prominent anti-Communists, and is reported to have bombed Russian police stations.

The goal was to give the impression that counterrevolutionaries were in Russia, and needed support.

Dzerzhinsky's efforts were successful. Not only were important anti-Communist Russians lured back to Russia and to their deaths, but Britain's most renown spy of the era, Sidney Reilly, also fell into the trap, suffering the same deadly fate.
http://www.newswithviews.com/news_worthy/news_worthy38.htm


PS: Its an utter lie by ziopedia to call Luxemburg a social democrat, they were criminals and terrorists.

vegan_on_the_land
19-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Yes, we know that Stalin was evil. Just like Hitler. We know the Soviets committed atrocities. Just like the Nazis. The evidence for Soviet atrocities is as strong or as weak as the evidence for Nazi atrocities.

Removing air would cause the victim to lose consciousness. I don't think they could be 'screaming'. Also how would sound escape a sealed and evacuated chamber?


Whilst the air was being pumped out the victims will have become aware of feeling whatever they felt. Plenty of time to scream and plenty of time for sound to escape before a partial vaccum was formed.

So Stalin was half Jewish, eh? Just like Hitler. They had so much in common, no wonder they signed a non-aggression pact, which Hitler reneged on.

tinyint
19-06-2011, 06:02 PM
Yes, we know that Stalin was evil. Just like Hitler. We know the Soviets committed atrocities. Just like the Nazis. The evidence for Soviet atrocities is as strong or as weak as the evidence for Nazi atrocities.



Whilst the air was being pumped out the victims will have become aware of feeling whatever they felt. Plenty of time to scream and plenty of time for sound to escape before a partial vaccum was formed.

So Stalin was half Jewish, eh? Just like Hitler. They had so much in common, no wonder they signed a non-aggression pact, which Hitler reneged on.

Its wasn't the Germans which starved millions to death, in your so often used when run out of arguments, holodomor. Perpetrated by bolshevists, with apparently many jews in the leading positions.
Nice one.

rodin
19-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Yes, we know that Stalin was evil. Just like Hitler. We know the Soviets committed atrocities. Just like the Nazis. The evidence for Soviet atrocities is as strong or as weak as the evidence for Nazi atrocities.

Is it Hell. The bones of Christians lie @ Katyn and many other sites. Jewish bones mysteriously evaporated

Whilst the air was being pumped out the victims will have become aware of feeling whatever they felt. Plenty of time to scream and plenty of time for sound to escape before a partial vaccum was formed.

This is such bullshit, no country at war would bother with such Hammer (Armand) Horror fantasy.

In any case you have to have a robust sealed vessel if U want to evacuate - sound would not transmit, plus as the air pressure falls unconsiousness ensues (pilots etc).

So Stalin was half Jewish, eh? Just like Hitler. They had so much in common, no wonder they signed a non-aggression pact, which Hitler reneged on.

Can't say for sure but seems likely Stalin half Jewish at least and Hitler quarter was it?

vegan_on_the_land
20-06-2011, 03:29 PM
Is it Hell. The bones of Christians lie @ Katyn and many other sites. Jewish bones mysteriously evaporated

Can Jewish bones be told apart from Christian ones?

Its wasn't the Germans which starved millions to death, in your so often used when run out of arguments, holodomor. Perpetrated by bolshevists, with apparently many jews in the leading positions.
Nice one.

What evidence do you have that the Soviets starved people? Is is more credible than the evidence for Nazi atrocities?

This is such bullshit, no country at war would bother with such Hammer (Armand) Horror fantasy.

In any case you have to have a robust sealed vessel if U want to evacuate - sound would not transmit, plus as the air pressure falls unconsiousness ensues (pilots etc).


The Nazis conducted air pressure and cold water experiments. The data collected will have been invaluable to air crew and seamen. I have seen pictures of an experiment of someone in an air pressure chamber whilst the pressure was being reduced. He looked very distressed.

Hubertus Strughold was one of the scum who conducted the experiments. He went to the USA after the war as a specialist in aviation medicine.

As I said, there is as much or as little evidence for Nazi atrocities as there is for Soviet. Denounce a Nazi document or photograph and you can denounce Soviet ones with the same logic.

Do you also deny the experiments that went on in such places as Unit 731?

'All history is belief unless you personally experience it.' Nitram Nagev.

tinyint
20-06-2011, 05:30 PM
What evidence do you have that the Soviets starved people? Is is more credible than the evidence for Nazi atrocities?


Ziopedia tells us:

The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор, 'Морити голодом', literal translation Killing by hunger) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian SSR. During the famine, which is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine" and "famine-genocide in Ukraine",[1][2][3] millions of Ukrainians died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor



So what now? Are ziopedia liars? I wonder a bit here.:confused:

vegan_on_the_land
20-06-2011, 05:55 PM
What does wickepaedia say about the Holocaust? If they report it correctly and say millions of, mainly, Jews were killed by the Nazis, will you accept their version?

If not, why accept what they say about Ukrainians?

tinyint
20-06-2011, 06:03 PM
What does wickepaedia say about the Holocaust? If they report it correctly and say millions of, mainly, Jews were killed by the Nazis, will you accept their version?

If not, why accept what they say about Ukrainians?

Dude, you really play a very, very, very silly game.

*If you deny my holy myth of six million, I will deny that there is a sun rise every morning in the east. Buhuhu*

I am free to deny the starvation didn't happen, but I am not free to provide evidence, scientific evidence, that the "holocaust" simply could not happen as you fanatics want to force people to believe.
No, you guys even imprison the defence lawyers, and simply reject any evidence at "court".
Its strikes me, its Stalinist methods, just as the communists imprisoned many Germans for denying bolshevist slaughter at Katyn, the red version of Auschwitz myth.

vegan_on_the_land
20-06-2011, 11:20 PM
Dude, you really play a very, very, very silly game.

*If you deny my holy myth of six million, I will deny that there is a sun rise every morning in the east. Buhuhu*

I am free to deny the starvation didn't happen, but I am not free to provide evidence, scientific evidence, that the "holocaust" simply could not happen as you fanatics want to force people to believe.
No, you guys even imprison the defence lawyers, and simply reject any evidence at "court".
Its strikes me, its Stalinist methods, just as the communists imprisoned many Germans for denying bolshevist slaughter at Katyn, the red version of Auschwitz myth.

I don't imprison anyone and don't condone arresting anyone for denying the Holocaust.

I think you mean that commies imprisoned Germans for accusing bolshies of having slaughtered Poles at Katyn.

Your ideas for denying the Holocaust have been dealt with. You seem to accept that commies and Jews and especially commie Jews did evil things but not that the nazis did evil things. Very blinkered.

Any evidence you put forward to support your claims about the existence of gulags is no more believable than anything about the Holocaust.

rodin
23-06-2011, 09:08 AM
Can Jewish bones be told apart from Christian ones?

Commie Jews lefts millions of buried corpses

Hitler did not

The Nazis conducted air pressure and cold water experiments. The data collected will have been invaluable to air crew and seamen. I have seen pictures of an experiment of someone in an air pressure chamber whilst the pressure was being reduced. He looked very distressed.

Hubertus Strughold was one of the scum who conducted the experiments. He went to the USA after the war as a specialist in aviation medicine.

As I said, there is as much or as little evidence for Nazi atrocities as there is for Soviet. Denounce a Nazi document or photograph and you can denounce Soviet ones with the same logic.

Do you also deny the experiments that went on in such places as Unit 731?

'All history is belief unless you personally experience it.' Nitram Nagev.

See above riposte and read

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=173845

in particular

LAMB:You say, by the way before we leave that the number that we most often read is 20 million, you say it could be as many as 40 million people.
BRZEZINSKI: That's right. That's right.

LAMB:How did he kill them?

BRZEZINSKI: Well, in a variety of ways. Quite a few of them by shooting. But on a massive, massive scale you know we are now discovering graves next to every large Soviet city. Graves with thousands of people. For example, near Minsk, a city before the War of Sortrov, half a million people. They have discovered mass graves, which according to the calculations of those who dug them up, numbered probably as many as 101,000 people, shot in the course of four years -- 101,000 people. Now the Soviet government has investigated this and the Soviet Secret Police, which is the inheritor of the NKVD which carried out these executions, has issued a statement saying that is vastly exaggerated figure. The number was only 30,000. Now since then, that is a place near Minsk called Kurapaty. Since then, they have discovered mass graves near Kiev, in some cemeteries in Moscow, in the Alticry and searches are now going on in every major city.

Now Stalin literally shot thousands, hundreds of thousands, probably several million people. Then there were people who died during mass deportations carried out under extraordinarily inhuman conditions. Then there were mass executions in the camps. We now know from Dr. Mentor, evidence of periodically among the many prisoners held in camps, and the number was in the tens of millions, tens of millions in camps, periodically an order would arrive saying 10 percent are to be liquidated. Just like that. Or in local secret police offices sometimes an order would arrive saying it is estimated that in your region there are 15 percent enemies of the people. And that was clearly an order to the local secret police to ferret out 15 percent of the people. Because if they didn't they would be guilty of dereliction of duty and the same thing would happen to them.

Now if someone listening to us talk might say, this is just crazy. This guy is mouthing on the Soviet propaganda. The tragedy of the circumstances is that people don't believe such things because we cannot imagine them unless they are confirmed by the perpetrators themselves. And now we are getting that confirmation from the perpetrators themselves because we are getting access to the archives.

vegan_on_the_land
24-06-2011, 11:14 AM
People from what was the Soviet Union say that soviets committed atrocities. People from Germany say that Nazis committed atrocities. Both show photographs and documents in an attempt to corroborate their claims. Why believe one side and not the other?

All history is belief unless you personally experienced it, as a great man once said.

rodin
24-06-2011, 04:19 PM
People from what was the Soviet Union say that soviets committed atrocities. People from Germany say that Nazis committed atrocities. Both show photographs and documents in an attempt to corroborate their claims. Why believe one side and not the other?

All history is belief unless you personally experienced it, as a great man once said.

Forensically proven evidence exists for 40-160 million Christians killed by Jews

Forensically proven fake evidence exists for 6 million Jews killed by Christians

No other forensic evidence exists of any significance.

There's the difference

vegan_on_the_land
24-06-2011, 10:33 PM
How do you know this supposed forensically forensic evidence is correct? We've dealt with the supposed evidence against the Holocaust and showed that it is no evidence at all.

Forensic evidence is only as good as those who interpret it and how it was collected and presented. We all know James Hanratty was innocent but the DNA evidence was contaminated and fools took it to mean he was guilty.

tinyint
24-06-2011, 10:41 PM
How do you know this supposed forensically forensic evidence is correct? We've dealt with the supposed evidence against the Holocaust and showed that it is no evidence at all.

Forensic evidence is only as good as those who interpret it and how it was collected and presented. We all know James Hanratty was innocent but the DNA evidence was contaminated and fools took it to mean he was guilty.

Well, mass graves in Russia clearly indicate, there is forensic evidence, since there are bones left, loads of bones.
You remember surely, that you hoax promoters still have not answered the bones question, leave alone the cremation problem.
Where are the bones of the 6 million jews? You know the answer.
You also know forensic evidence is for example the prussian blue on the walls of the delousing chambers, but none ever been found in the alleged "gas chambers".

I know you guys have some problems understanding forensic/scientific evidence.

Bonus:

Why would the Germans use a solid(zyklon b) which needs energy to change aggregation state, while having all kind of chemical weapons in store, when the Bolshevists clearly used much more effective means to kill people? A bullet.
Cheaper, faster and the soviets did not care evidence was left.

But the evil Germans destroyed any documents and evidence, because of the lost war? While being invaded? Yeah, sure....

Anyway, you would never want to derail this thread with product placement? Would you? ^^

vegan_on_the_land
24-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Well, mass graves in Russia clearly indicate, there is forensic evidence, since there are bones left, loads of bones.
You remember surely, that you hoax promoters still have not answered the bones question, leave alone the cremation problem.
Where are the bones of the 6 million jews? You know the answer.
You also know forensic evidence is for example the prussian blue on the walls of the delousing chambers, but none ever been found in the alleged "gas chambers".

I know you guys have some problems understanding forensic/scientific evidence.

Bonus:

Why would the Germans use a solid(zyklon b) which needs energy to change aggregation state, while having all kind of chemical weapons in store, when the Bolshevists clearly used much more effective means to kill people? A bullet.
Cheaper, faster and the soviets did not care evidence was left.

But the evil Germans destroyed any documents and evidence, because of the lost war? While being invaded? Yeah, sure....

Your ability to ignore evidence is astonishing. I and others have answered the questions about zyklon B and blue staining and the disposal of bodies many, many times. But you keep asking the same questions.

Once again:

The Nazis used zyklon B to kill lice. If they could use it to kill lice, they could use it to kill humans. In fact, it is easier to kill humans because they need far, far weaker concentrations for far, far less time exposure.

The blue staining is found in the delousing chambers because much, much more zyklon B was used for much, much longer to kill lice. The delousing chambers were not demolished. The gas chamber used to kill humans that you refer to was demolished and rain and other weather conditions will have destroyed any blue staining there may have been. But, as humans die very quickly from zyklon B, and not much needs to be used, and not for very long, there may never have been any staining on the walls.

A few million human bodies would have been easy to burn in ovens over a period of years. Much, much easier than the 10 million cattle, pigs and sheep who who were killed and burned in the 2001 foot-and-mouth epidemic. There is now no sign that any such happened. No obvious mass graves. No bones lying around. All gone. Only ten years ago.

tinyint
24-06-2011, 11:11 PM
Your ability to ignore evidence is astonishing. I and others have answered the questions about zyklon B and blue staining and the disposal of bodies many, many times. But you keep asking the same questions.

Once again:

The Nazis used zyklon B to kill lice. If they could use it to kill lice, they could use it to kill humans. In fact, it is easier to kill humans because they need far, far weaker concentrations for far, far less time exposure.


First clear BS. Answered by eg Germar Rudolf, you guys want to see imprisoned.
http://www.germarrudolf.com/

And no, Zyklon B is almost ineffective to kill rapidly humans.
Takes more than 20 mins to suffocate humans with Zyklon B, if you told me how they made Zyklon B a gas, running through a shower, at room temperature.

Which brings us to your leaking sieve story about the "gas chambers" itself. What about air tight door and windows? Why windows at all? What about the ventilation?
And how long did the evil germans have to wait until they could enter the "gas chambers"?


The blue staining is found in the delousing chambers because much, much more zyklon B was used for much, much longer to kill lice. The delousing chambers were not demolished. The gas chamber used to kill humans that you refer to was demolished and rain and other weather conditions will have destroyed any blue staining there may have been. But, as humans die very quickly from zyklon B, and not much needs to be used, and not for very long, there may never have been any staining on the walls.


Second clear BS.
Answered by eg Germar Rudolf, you guys want to see imprisoned.
http://www.germarrudolf.com/

You have still no clue about Zyklon B and about some basic chemistry. A trade mark of the hoaxing mafia.
You ain't talking to a heavily fluoridated american with no clue about anything.
Where are the strains in the "gas chambers"?

A few million human bodies would have been easy to burn in ovens over a period of years. Much, much easier than the 10 million cattle, pigs and sheep who who were killed and burned in the 2001 foot-and-mouth epidemic. There is now no sign that any such happened. No obvious mass graves. No bones lying around. All gone. Only ten years ago.

Third clear BS.
Ask any cremation expert, they will tell you that human bodies,(H2O), extremely difficult cremate.
http://vho.org/GB/c/CM/Risposta-new-eng.html

I unfortunately cannot provide much here, since I get this on google...

Aus Rechtsgründen hat Google 2 Ergebnis(se) von dieser Seite entfernt. Weitere Informationen über diese Rechtsgründe finden Sie unter ChillingEffects.org.

Aus Rechtsgründen hat Google 17 Ergebnis(se) von dieser Seite entfernt. Weitere Informationen über diese Rechtsgründe finden Sie unter ChillingEffects.org.

Requires high temperature and still leaves bones if you do it with say fuel. Not hot enough. Crematoriums did not have the capacity to cremate 6 million jews.
Where are the bones?
Where did the German get, in a 2 front war with a shortage of everything, being bombed, infrastructure destroyed, all the fuel to burn the bodies?

Why would the Germans use solid Zyklon B, while having bullets or Sarin, Tabun and Soman at disposal?

Why did they kill the lice?

I know you will simply ignore the bold questions.

tinyint
25-06-2011, 12:40 AM
Lets get back on topic after the product placement attack.

Destroy the family, you destroy the country.


The aim of socialism is not only to abolish the present division of mankind into small states and all-national isolation, not only to bring the nations closer to each other, but also to merge them.


Only an armed people can be the real bulwark of popular liberty.


A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.


The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.


The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.


...the concentration of capital and the growth of their turnover is radically challenging the significance of the banks. Scattered capitalists are transformed into a single collective capitalist. When carrying the current accounts of a few capitalists, the banks, as it were, transact a purely technical and exclusively auxiliary operation. When, however, these operations grow to enormous dimensions we find that a handful of monopolists control all the operations, both commercial and industrial, of capitalist society. They can, by means of their banking connections.
It would be the greatest mistake, certainly, to think that concessions mean peace. Nothing of the
kind. Concessions are nothing but a new form of war. All our lives we fought against exalting the individual, against the elevation of the single person, and long ago we were over and done with the business of a hero, and here it comes up again: the glorification of one personality. This is not good at all.


While the State exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State.

Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.


One of the basic conditions for the victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communist) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class).

...first ascertain exactly the position of the various capitalists, then control them, influence them by restricting or enlarging, facilitating or hindering their credits, and finally they can entirely determine their fate.


Ideological talk and phrase mongering about political liberties should be disposed with; all that is just mere chatter and phrase mongering. We should get away from those phrases.


We do not have time to play at “oppositions” at “conferences.” We will keep our political opponents... whether open or disguised as “nonparty,” in prison.


The bourgeoisie is many times stronger than we. To give it the weapon of freedom of the press is to ease the enemy’s cause, to help the class enemy. We do not desire to end in suicide, so we will not do this.


I don’t care what becomes of Russia. To hell with it. All this is only the road to a World Revolution.


The surest way to destroy a nation is to debauch its currency.


Behind the October Revolution there are more influential personalities than the thinkers and executors of
Marxism.

--Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov Lenin

Compare with what is happening currently, and has happened.

Edit:
I should probably mention, what they understood by "capitalists". Not the banksters, but all the people running small business, from baker to book seller, leaving 'state' owned insolvent monopoly business, so in fact bankster owned by central bank.

The oligarchs, Putin threw out, which are now residing in UK, such as Abramovich or Beresovsky.

vegan_on_the_land
25-06-2011, 11:51 AM
All been answered. And then you link to some page with lots of links and expect me to wade my way through them. Please refer directly to something you think supports your position.

tinyint
25-06-2011, 12:02 PM
All been answered. And then you link to some page with lots of links and expect me to wade my way through them. Please refer directly to something you think supports your position.

http://www.galileeofthenations.com/images/AlbumCovers/1000px/Les-Morrison-CD-Cover.jpg

Yeah, its all explained, its why you guys hunt down those who can answer my questions and inquisition them with 3 years.

Why did the evil Germans kill the lice?

Edit: Be aware, if you don't stop trolling without answering the questions, I will start to post stalinist inquisition trial transcripts. Its needless to say, chief prosecutor is always an utter criminal zionist.

vegan_on_the_land
25-06-2011, 04:31 PM
I haven't hunted down any Holocaust deniers, nor do I advocate such an action.

The questions have been answered. Except the one about the reason for killing the lice. I suppose the Nazis killed them because they didn't like them. They didn't like anyone who was different.

Are you also a Foot-and-Mouth-Disease denier? How were over 10 million sheep, cattle and pig bodies burned and/or disposed of in a few months if it was so difficult to burn and/or dispose of a few million human bodies in 3 years? But 10 million large, non-human animal bodies were burned and the remains quickly disposed of or the dead bodies were buried. The outbreak lasted for about 6 months. That's a mean average of about 1.5 million dead bodies every month. Fifty thousand a day.

If 3 million humans were killed in gas chambers (others were killed in other ways) over 3 years, that's only 1 million a year. Not 1.5 million a month.

You have no need to post anything about Stalin. We all know he was almost as evil as Hitler. In fact, I have evidence that both he and Mad Adolf were financed by The Tufty Club.

rodin
28-06-2011, 03:11 PM
How do you know this supposed forensically forensic evidence is correct? We've dealt with the supposed evidence against the Holocaust and showed that it is no evidence at all.

The following are just a selection of indisputible facts

The Katyn graves and in many other Soviet cities were found. That is forensic evidence.

The Jews were screaming about 6 million at the time of WW1.

Jews faked holocaust stories and artifacts

Jews changed the world population statistics

Most tellingly Churchill Eisenhower and DeGaulle FAILED TO MENTION THE HOLOCAUST IN THEIR WAR MEMOIRS

At the Nuremberg trials Germans had their testicles crushed beyond repair by their Jewish inquisitors

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion

The Holocaust, like the Old Testament, was concocted after the event...

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 10:40 AM
I've never heard of the accused at Nuremberg having their testicles crushed. How does that prove the gulags existed?

If you believe the Katyn evidence why not the Holocaust evidence? You say the Holocaust evidence was faked - all the pictures, documents and testimonies. So could the Kayn evidence have been faked. The Soviet Union was never trusted, not even during the war. It was in many country's interests to demonise them. Don't forget, there was a red under every bed. Even if one of their prime ministers later admitted that Katyn had happened, how is this different to admissions by German polititians that the Holocaust happened? Did the Soviet polititian tell the truth but the German ones told lies?

I have already dealt with the Churchill, DeGaul and Eisenhower lack of mentionings.

Whatever figures were bandied about before the war does not alter the fact that the Holocaust occurred. At the most, it can only be blamed for any errors in calculating the numbers of victims.

And none of this proves the gulags existed.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 10:54 AM
I've never heard of the accused at Nuremberg having their testicles crushed. How does that prove the gulags existed?

If you believe the Katyn evidence why not the Holocaust evidence? You say the Holocaust evidence was faked - all the pictures, documents and testimonies. So could the Kayn evidence have been faked. The Soviet Union was never trusted, not even during the war. It was in many country's interests to demonise them. Don't forget, there was a red under every bed. Even if one of their prime ministers later admitted that Katyn had happened, how is this different to admissions by German polititians that the Holocaust happened? Did the Soviet polititian tell the truth but the German ones told lies?

I have already dealt with the Churchill, DeGaul and Eisenhower lack of mentionings.

Whatever figures were bandied about before the war does not alter the fact that the Holocaust occurred. At the most, it can only be blamed for any errors in calculating the numbers of victims.

And none of this proves the gulags existed.

Blatant spin doctoring.
First you start the product placement, and then you use it to totally twist everything.
Flick flack, is it you? You have the same feaking naivety and chutzpah.

Mass graves in Russia, everywhere near a city, which means bones you brick head.
Same bones you still did not find in Auschwitz, where you claim bodies were burnt with fuel, or bodies taken to ignite bodies. I remember one hoaxer said women burn better than men :rolleyes:

Btw, why is your fairy tale protected by 'law', and why do you guys reject evidence at 'court' and imprison the defence lawyer?

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 10:58 AM
But there's no proof of mass graves in the Soviet Union that is better than the proof of the Holocaust. All photographs, documents and testimonies can be faked. If Holocaust evidence can be faked so can gulag evidence be faked.

Oh yes he did! Oh no he didn't!

He's behind you!

tinyint
29-06-2011, 10:59 AM
But there's no proof of mass graves in the Soviet Union that is better than the proof of the Holocaust. All photographs, documents and testimonies can be faked. If Holocaust evidence can be faked so can gulag evidence be faked.

Oh yes he did! Oh no he didn't!

He's behind you!

Btw, why is your fairy tale protected by 'law', and why do you guys reject evidence at 'court' and imprison the defence lawyer?

Answer all the questions I asked you, or stfu.
You suck, JIDF troll.

To sum it up for you:

The russians do have proof for:
1. the corpses/bones, thus the victims
2. the murder plan, tons of documents
3. the murder weapon, starvation, diseases and bullets

What the zionists have proof for:
1. the corpses/bones: none
2. the murder plan: none
3. the murder weapon: none
4. expulsionplan: yes, the transfer agreement

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 11:05 AM
I don't know why the truth is protected by law. It was not my decision nor do I agree with protecting it. Perhaps because what happened was so abhorrent that normal people are disgusted that anyone could deny it. And the regime that perpetrated it is no longer in power.

I have answered all the questions and even some that haven't been asked yet.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 11:07 AM
I don't know why the truth is protected by law. It was not my decision nor do I agree with protecting it. Perhaps because what happened was so abhorrent that normal people are disgusted that anyone could deny it. And the regime that perpetrated it is no longer in power.

I have answered all the questions and even some that haven't been asked yet.

Btw, why is your fairy tale protected by 'law', and why do you guys reject evidence at 'court' and imprison the defence lawyer?

Answer all the questions I asked you, or stfu.
You suck, JIDF troll.

To sum it up for you:

The russians do have proof for:
1. the corpses/bones, thus the victims
2. the murder plan, tons of documents
3. the murder weapon, starvation, diseases and bullets

What the zionists have proof for:
1. the corpses/bones: none
2. the murder plan: none
3. the murder weapon: none
4. expulsionplan: yes, the transfer agreement

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 03:27 PM
What proof do the Ruskies have that can't be denounced as fake? Any photographs, documents or testimonies can be so denounced. You Holocaust deniers are always quick to denounce the evidence for the Holocaust.

The Soviet proof is only as good as the belief of the person who believes it is proof.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 03:56 PM
What proof do the Ruskies have that can't be denounced as fake? Any photographs, documents or testimonies can be so denounced. You Holocaust deniers are always quick to denounce the evidence for the Holocaust.

The Soviet proof is only as good as the belief of the person who believes it is proof.

Im Wald von Katyn--1943
Katyń[Im Wald von Katyn - 1943] - YouTube

Ffs, you fucking criminal brick head hoaxers.
All the proof in the world, whereas you have none for your protected by law fairy tales. :rolleyes:

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 04:15 PM
I haven't watched the video. There is no need to do so. Anything can be faked if you didn't see it yourself. That is the stance of the Holocaust deniers. But, even if the Soviets killed Poles in Katyn, what does that have to do with the gulags?

What does the video show? Some dead bodies? Some Russian-made rope? Testimonies from those who said they were there? Not good enough to outdo the evidence for the Holocaust.

There is no more evidence for the gulags or Katyn than there is for the Holocaust. Only belief.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Since the JIDF shill is so resistant against any sane reasoning, let alone scientific/forensic evidence he does not understand, here some literature:

"Last Republic" or german title is "Stalin's prevented first strike"
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41pvtYu6xeL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/fc/c3/0009c3fc_medium.jpeg

http://reasonradionetwork.com/images/posts/CoverOfTheChiefCulpritByVictorSuvorov.jpg

http://plukpublishing.com/icebreaker/images/img03.jpg

Viktor Suvorov

a former Soviet and now British writer of Russian and Ukrainian descent who writes primarily in Russian, as well as a former Soviet spy who defected to the UK. Suvorov made his name writing books about Soviet history, the Soviet Army, GRU, and Spetsnaz.

Suvorov's assertion is that Joseph Stalin originally planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West. For this reason Stalin provided material and political support to Adolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing his Red Army for an offensive against Nazi Germany and further against the entire Western Europe. Suvorov argued that Hitler had no choice but to direct a unexpected preemptive strike at the Soviet Union, what we know today as Operation Barbarossa.

(...)

In some countries, particularly in Russia, Germany and Israel, Suvorov's controversial theses have jumped the bounds of academic discourse and captured the public imagination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 04:21 PM
Someone who defected to the UK is unlikely to be well disposed towards his former masters - otherwise he would never have left.

Where is the evidence? I see only words on a page. Words can tell lies as easily as they can tell truth.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 04:27 PM
I haven't watched the video. There is no need to do so. Anything can be faked if you didn't see it yourself. That is the stance of the Holocaust deniers. But, even if the Soviets killed Poles in Katyn, what does that have to do with the gulags?

What does the video show? Some dead bodies? Some Russian-made rope? Testimonies from those who said they were there? Not good enough to outdo the evidence for the Holocaust.

There is no more evidence for the gulags or Katyn than there is for the Holocaust. Only belief.

Dude, this is no product placement thread for your fairy tales.
This is sane business here, no hoaxing.

You are an ignoramus, which has devilish fun trolling.

Prepare for the trial transcripts.... you know you have absolutely no evidence, just protected by law BS :rolleyes:

You are so crazy to indeed deny Gulags. Even the heretics on the holyhoax do not deny camps. Pure insanity and religious madness of yours.

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 04:33 PM
I have never denied the existence of the gulags nor that the soviets are the ones wot done Katyn. I am simply asking what evidence there is for either. Whatever evidence you try to show I will show how easy it is to question it - like you question the evidence for the Holocaust.

As a member of the Inner Sanctum of the Ovaltinies, I know the truth. And the truth is that The Tufty Club are not to be trusted.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 04:41 PM
I have never denied the existence of the gulags nor that the soviets are the ones wot done Katyn. I am simply asking what evidence there is for either. Whatever evidence you try to show I will show how easy it is to question it - like you question the evidence for the Holocaust.

As a member of the Inner Sanctum of the Ovaltinies, I know the truth. And the truth is that The Tufty Club are not to be trusted.

Yeah, and I am from the plant liberation front.
Be aware, dirty vegan.

Would you stop trolling now?

Either provide some stuff on topic, or simply shut the fuck up with your hoax marketing and snivel-drivel.

The soviets would have sent you in a Gulag for denying Katyn.
Happened all in soviet occupied Germany.

The Soviet proof is only as good as the belief of the person who believes it is proof.

So you doubt the victor's "justice" at Nürnberg? Good, finally, all based on soviet propaganda and lies.

War is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength.

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 04:49 PM
If Holocaust evidence is false, so is gulag evidence. You can't even prove that Stalin existed.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 04:54 PM
If Holocaust evidence is false, so is gulag evidence. You can't even prove that Stalin existed.

There is no more evidence for the gulags or Katyn than there is for the Holocaust.

I have never denied the existence of the gulags ...

:rolleyes:

The Soviet proof is only as good as the belief of the person who believes it is proof.

Do you doubt the victor's "justice" at Nürnberg, 'evidence' provided by the soviets?

vegan_on_the_land
29-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Do you doubt the victor's "justice" at Nürnberg, 'evidence' provided by the soviets?

No, I don't doubt the findings at Nuremberg. It's all a matter of believing that which is believable.

And, what's more, you can't even spell 'Nuremberg' yet you are German. Just like the French don't know how to spell Dunkirk and the Austrians don't know how to spell Vienna.

Enough of this nonsense, I have work to do. If I don't do some work today I won't be sent my usual weekly cheque for 3,000 Shekels.

tinyint
29-06-2011, 05:11 PM
No, I don't doubt the findings at Nuremberg. It's all a matter of believing that which is believable.

And, what's more, you can't even spell 'Nuremberg' yet you are German. Just like the French don't know how to spell Dunkirk and the Austrians don't know how to spell Vienna.

Enough of this nonsense, I have work to do. If I don't do some work today I won't be sent my usual weekly cheque for 3,000 Shekels.

But you doubt Gulags, mass killing perpetrated by mainly jewish bolsheviks long before Hitler? Mental.

You have already worked on this thread, bye.

PS: I simply call Nürnberg by its name, that is in German Nürnberg (http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Germany/Bavaria/Nuernberg-32898/TravelGuide-Nuernberg.html), dimwit.

rodin
30-06-2011, 08:57 AM
If Holocaust evidence is false, so is gulag evidence...

Your logic is escapable

Better to submit the Holocaust and 'Gulag' evidence as you call it to the same level of scrutiny and then make a judgement, wouldn't you say?

Really we are not even comparing like with like since Jewish Bolshevicki murdered Christians in many more places than the Gulags in the Sovjet, and the numbers are also not directly comparable.

6 million claimed by Jews (as in WW1) with massive reparations extracted from not only the alleged guilty party but just about everyone in the West

60 million claimed murdered by Jewish Bolshevicki with no recompense for victims

The above is a summation the standard historical model as currently accepted

So let us compare the evidence for both.

vegan_on_the_land
30-06-2011, 10:52 AM
If you dispute the evidence for the Holocaust it is because of your belief. Any evidence for the gulags is as believable or non-believable as the evidence for the Holocaust.

Show me any document or photograph purporting to be of the gulags and I will employ your side's tactic of calling it fake.

The perpetrators of the Holocaust lost the war and the perpetrators of the gulags won the war. That is why there is a difference in reparations. After the war, the gulag criminals became the enemy of the Allies but were powerful enough to remain unconquered. Russia is still powerful and it is not in their interests to examine the crimes of the communist soviet empire.

To the victor the spoils whilst the loser toils.

tinyint
30-06-2011, 11:16 AM
If you dispute the evidence for the Holocaust it is because of your belief. Any evidence for the gulags is as believable or non-believable as the evidence for the Holocaust.

Show me any document or photograph purporting to be of the gulags and I will employ your side's tactic of calling it fake.

The perpetrators of the Holocaust lost the war and the perpetrators of the gulags won the war. That is why there is a difference in reparations. After the war, the gulag criminals became the enemy of the Allies but were powerful enough to remain unconquered. Russia is still powerful and it is not in their interests to examine the crimes of the communist soviet empire.

To the victor the spoils whilst the loser toils.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/28/article-0-09571748000005DC-366_468x629.jpg

http://rusarchives.ru/publication/katyn/spisok.shtml

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/gulag/gulag_page2.html

Gulag Study @ www.dtic.mil ("http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtic.mil%2Fdpmo%2Frussia_euro pe%2Fgulag_study%2Fdocuments%2FGulagrevised5v2.pdf&rct=j&q=gulag%20documents&ei=C04MTr7sOcrPsgaH663nDg&usg=AFQjCNHoU7j21EaxV0LFwd2k4ThH_WsYtQ&cad=rja)

Have fun digging, and stfu now.

vegan_on_the_land
30-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Without wasting my time looking at the links I could say it's all lies. Notice that my method is the same as the Holocaust deniers?

tinyint
30-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Without wasting my time looking at the links I could say it's all lies. Notice that my method is the same as the Holocaust deniers?

Lol, your are so deluded and fanatic, you make a fool of yourself.
You escape questions, you imprison any one who scientifically disproves you shit, but you still don't see a problem with that.

By the same logic you are using, Alexandr Solshenizyn's "Archipelago Gulag" must be true, its an eye witness account.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KNyiPwAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&l=220

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Solzhenitsyn_Gulag_Photo.jpg

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn (English pronunciation: /soʊlʒəˈniːtsɨn/[1] Russian: Алекса́ндр Иса́евич Солжени́цын, pronounced [ɐlʲɪˈksandr ɪˈsaɪvʲɪtɕ səlʐɨˈnʲitsɨn]) (11 December 1918 – 3 August 2008)[2] was a Russian[3] and Soviet[3] novelist, dramatist, and historian. Through his often-suppressed writings, he helped to raise global awareness of the Gulag, the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system – particularly in The Gulag Archipelago and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, two of his best-known works. Solzhenitsyn was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970. He was expelled from the Soviet Union in 1974, but returned to Russia in 1994 after the Soviet system had collapsed.

In February 1945, while serving in East Prussia, Solzhenitsyn was arrested for writing derogatory comments in letters to friends about the conduct of the war by Joseph Stalin, whom he called Khozyain" ("the master"), and "Balabos", (Yiddish rendering of Hebrew baal ha-bayis for "master of the house").[13] He was accused of anti-Soviet propaganda under Article 58 paragraph 10 of the Soviet criminal code, and of "founding a hostile organization" under paragraph 11.[14] Solzhenitsyn was taken to the Lubyanka prison in Moscow, where he was beaten and interrogated. On 7 July 1945, he was sentenced in his absence by Special Council of the NKVD to an eight-year term in a labor camp. This was the normal sentence for most crimes under Article 58 at the time.

It is true anyway, no matter what the zionist mafia thinks about it in their lala land. Was forbidden behind the Iron curtain to read it, same as you guys still burn books on scientific "holocaust" studies.

The pure fact, that you simply overlook almost 20 years of murdering, starving and raging of jewish bolshevists which began in 1917, shows what you are up to here.

You are a hoax promoter and salesman for the zionist mafia, trying desperately, but also foolishly to do damage control.

vegan_on_the_land
30-06-2011, 07:52 PM
Never has the reality of the gulags been by me denied. What I ask for is proof that they existed. What evidence do you have? Whatever you claim is proof could be lies. Alexander Solzhenitsyn might have been a capitalist agitator who tried to pour scorn on the Soviet system.

The Holocaust happened and millions of Jews were killed by the Nazis. It is true anyway, no matter what the anti-Jewish mafia thinks about it in their lala land.

No questions by me have been escaped. No one by me has been sent to chokey.

tinyint
05-07-2011, 11:46 PM
Never has the reality of the gulags been by me denied. What I ask for is proof that they existed. What evidence do you have? Whatever you claim is proof could be lies. Alexander Solzhenitsyn might have been a capitalist agitator who tried to pour scorn on the Soviet system.

The Holocaust happened and millions of Jews were killed by the Nazis. It is true anyway, no matter what the anti-Jewish mafia thinks about it in their lala land.

No questions by me have been escaped. No one by me has been sent to chokey.


Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.



Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.



We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.



Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.



In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.



Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.



All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened
to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.



And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."



Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.



Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.



Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.



In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.



The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.



Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html


Your fellow is right, you should listen to him.

vegan_on_the_land
06-07-2011, 11:30 PM
Quoted from above:

And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Ten million? Over how many years? 12? 15? 18? Himmler and Hitler killed 6 million in only 5 years. More would have been killed if they hadn't been stopped.

You can't prove any of your material is accurate. You just believe it is.

tinyint
07-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Quoted from above:



Ten million? Over how many years? 12? 15? 18? Himmler and Hitler killed 6 million in only 5 years. More would have been killed if they hadn't been stopped.

You can't prove any of your material is accurate. You just believe it is.

John Q. Barrett (2011) on Justice Jackson, Nuremberg & the Katyn Forest crime

John Q. Barrett (2011) on Justice Jackson, Nuremberg & the Katyn Forest crime - YouTube

They all lie, because Nürnberg trials did not reveal any "holocaust", just red crimes, veiled by the soviets.
You are nuts.

rodin
07-07-2011, 01:15 PM
Quoted from above:



Ten million? Over how many years? 12? 15? 18? Himmler and Hitler killed 6 million in only 5 years. More would have been killed if they hadn't been stopped.

You can't prove any of your material is accurate. You just believe it is.

The true figure is probably 66 million in about 50 years

The Nazi Holocaust appears to have been fabricated by Stalin etc, with the extermination part coming from the Sovjet.

It is quite remarkable that history gets revised but the Holocaust remains as a 6 million myth. Witness the massive downgrading of supposed deaths at Auschwitz and other camps.

eg

What Was Mauthausen?

Mauthausen was a high-security walled prison, which sat on a hill-top in the Austrian countryside. It's inmates were 'Class three' career criminals such as murderers, condemned German criminals, resistance fighters, saboteurs, Allied commandos, dangerous Russian POWs.

It sat on a stone quarry, and Nazis allowed designated prisoners to work it.

When the Allies liberated the camp, it suddenly went from a prison full of criminals, to a death camp where 1.5 million Jews were killed.

This Makes A Lot Of Sense

Liberate a bunch of criminals from a prison, establish a court with Jewish prosecutors, use the Jewish criminals as witnesses to testify against the German warden, and staff. Then declare them guilty, and hang them.

http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14838

The Commie inmates of Buchenwald were responsible for most atrocities in that camp. Even according to the official conspiracy theory Buchenwald was not a "death camp", nor were any camps located on German soil. Only the six camps "liberated" by the Reds in Poland are still claimed to be "death camps" by the Zionist/Communist anti-Nazi conspiracy theorists (during the war the liars claimed 23 German camps were "death factories"). All of our "information" and "facts" about these six camps were provided by the Reds who had murdered millions in death camps of their own. In other words, they lied their butts off about these camps to distract attention from Soviet atrocities and give the Zionists their excuse to colonize Palestine.

Not declassified until 1972, a U.S. Army intelligence document of April 24, 1945, entitled Buchenwald: A Preliminary Report. Reveals the true story of who committed the atrocities at the Nazi concentration camp

Alfred Toombs, a U.S. Army intelligence chief, wrote in its short preface that the secret report was
"one of the most significant accounts yet written on an aspect of life in Nazi Germany' because it
"tells how the [Buchenwald] prisoners themselves organized a deadly terror within the Nazi terror."

"The trustees had wide powers over their fellow inmates. At first they were drawn almost exclusively from the German criminals. This period lasted until 1942. But gradually the Communists began to gain control of this organization. They were the oldest residents, with records of 10-12 years in the concentration camps... The Communists maintained excellent discipline and received a certain amount of direction from outside the camp. They had brains and technical qualifications for running the various industries established at the camp.

Their advances were not made without resistance from the criminals, but gradually the criminals were eliminated from power, partly by intimidation, partly with the aid of the SS. Numbers of the criminals were killed by beatings, hangings, or injections of phenol into the heart or of air or milk into the veins. The injections were a specialty of the camp doctor [Hoven], who became a partisan of the Communist faction.
Besides the top positions in the trusty organization, there were a number of key Communist strongholds in the administration of the camp. One was the food supply organization, through which favored groups received reasonable rations while others were brought to the starvation level. A second was the hospital, staffed almost exclusively by Communists. Its facilities were largely devoted to caring for members of their party.... Another Communist stronghold was the property room... Each German trusty obtained good clothing and numerous other valuables. The Communists of Buchenwald, after ten or twelve years in concentration camps, are dressed like prosperous business men."

As a result of all this, the report continued,

"...Instead of a heap of corpses or a disorderly mob of starving, leaderless men, the Americans [who liberated the camp] found a disciplined and efficient organization in Buchenwald. Credit is undoubtedly due to the self-appointed Camp Committee, an almost purely Communist group under the domination of the German politic leader.... The trusties, who in time became inmost exclusively Communist Germans, had the power of life and death over all other inmates. They could sentence a man or group to almost certain death.... The Communist trusties were directly responsible for a large part of the brutalities committed at Buchenwald."

http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14821

Holocaust - made in the Soviet Union not Germany

Made by Jews not Germans

Waged on Christians not Jews

Waged by Jews not Christians

vegan_on_the_land
09-07-2011, 03:01 PM
The true figure is probably 66 million in about 50 years




As I wrote 8 minutes and 33.443 seconds ago in another thread in answer to Tinyint's (I think) allegation that the Soviets killed 50+ million:

The population of the USSR

1928 148 million

1937 100 million but this was just for Russia and not the far east and the Caucasus area.

1973 250 million

1990 290 million

Lets say there were 170 million in total in 1937. If 50 million died, that would be nearly 1 in 3 people.

These are taken from official Soviet census and other figures.

tinyint
09-07-2011, 03:09 PM
As I wrote 8 minutes and 33.443 seconds ago in another thread in answer to Tinyint's (I think) allegation that the Soviets killed 50+ million:

The population of the USSR

1928 148 million

1937 100 million but this was just for Russia and not the far east and the Caucasus area.

1973 250 million

1990 290 million

Lets say there were 170 million in total in 1937. If 50 million died, that would be nearly 1 in 3 people.

These are taken from official Soviet census and other figures.

You moron have to consider the whole bolshevist occupied and terrorized eastern europe.
This includes Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltic nations, Yugoslavia, Finland ... :rolleyes:

Source of the census? Stalin and the politburo?
I thought the soviets cannot be trusted? What now?


The Soviet proof is only as good as the belief of the person who believes it is proof.

vegan_on_the_land
09-07-2011, 08:47 PM
You moron have to consider the whole bolshevist occupied and terrorized eastern europe.
This includes Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltic nations, Yugoslavia, Finland ... :rolleyes:

Source of the census? Stalin and the politburo?
I thought the soviets cannot be trusted? What now?

Nearly all the countries you mention were part of the Soviet empire until just a few years ago. Their officials and citizens were guilty of helping the Soviets in killing their people. Just like people in Nazi occupied countries were guilty of helping the Nazis to kill Jews, Gypsies and the others considered undesirable. You can't believe the accomplices of evil.

vegan_on_the_land
09-07-2011, 08:49 PM
Source of the census? Stalin and the politburo?
I thought the soviets cannot be trusted? What now?

No, they couldn't be trusted. And neither could the Polish, Latvian and other people who helped the Soviets. So, why do you trust their figure of 50 million?

If the Communist population figures are wrong, so could be the alleged death figures.

tinyint
09-07-2011, 08:54 PM
Nearly all the countries you mention were part of the Soviet empire until just a few years ago. Their officials and citizens were guilty of helping the Soviets in killing their people. Just like people in Nazi occupied countries were guilty of helping the Nazis to kill Jews, Gypsies and the others considered undesirable. You can't believe the accomplices of evil.

Unfortunately those countries did not belong to the USSR, or Soviet Union.
Ukraine, Belorussia, Kazakhstan etc... the former soviet republics were just that, conquered territory, which enabled a huge deportation program, especially in Kazakhstan.
And if they did, your figures would not add up. You have given figures of the soviet union and stated it proudly.

Please, somebody in the zionist bunker may educate the shills at least a bit. This is no esther in zionland.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Unfortunately those countries did not belong to the USSR, or Soviet Union.
Ukraine, Belorussia, Kazakhstan etc... the former soviet republics were just that, conquered territory, which enabled a huge deportation program, especially in Kazakhstan.
And if they did, your figures would not add up. You have given figures of the soviet union and stated it proudly.

Please, somebody in the zionist bunker may educate the shills at least a bit. This is no esther in zionland.

Which is why I asked in this thread or the other one where the 50 million people came from. Ukraine, Kazakstan and Belorussia were in the USSR in the 1930s.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 12:05 PM
Which is why I asked in this thread or the other one where the 50 million people came from. Ukraine, Kazakstan and Belorussia were in the USSR in the 1930s.

FlickFlack, you had better times on here.
This is ridiculous.

I will remind you, what you posted.

You have given the figures of Soviet Union, while you claimed brazenly Romania, Bulgaria, Finland and Hungary belonged to SU, which is a lie.

So now your figures of about 250 million for SU are the figures for SU, without the mentioned nations, compiled by the bolshevists(!) and unfortunately no Germans to blame between 1917-1939.

Grow up, and ffs, get at least a little clue.

1928 148 million

1937 100 million

A drop of 48 million in 9 years, ffs, your figures, you zionist math wizzard!
Seem to be figures for Russia, not SU, btw.

Why are you punching yourself all the time in your face? Masochist?

Note:

I will help you to get a geographical grip of the SU and Eastern Europe in 1920.

http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/euro1920.GIF

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~pv/maps/USSR_Nat_82.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/genealogy/images/a/a1/Soviet_Union_Administrative_Divisions_1989.jpg

Throughout its 72-year history, the republic's borders changed many times, with a significant portion of what is now Western Ukraine being annexed by Soviet forces in 1939 and the addition of formerly Russian Crimea in 1954.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 12:38 PM
The 1937 figure is for Russia only - as I said in my original post. In total, there would have been about 170 million humans in the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by tinyint:
You moron have to consider the whole bolshevist occupied and terrorized eastern europe.
This includes Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltic nations, Yugoslavia, Finland ...

Source of the census? Stalin and the politburo?
I thought the soviets cannot be trusted? What now?

Posted by me, post 182:
Nearly all the countries you mention were part of the Soviet empire until just a few years ago. Their officials and citizens were guilty of helping the Soviets in killing their people. Just like people in Nazi occupied countries were guilty of helping the Nazis to kill Jews, Gypsies and the others considered undesirable. You can't believe the accomplices of evil.

Most of those countries were under Soviet control and before that, under Nazi control. The Poles and Hungarians and Baltic nations provided many members of the SS and later keen communists. There were even keen communists amongst the East Germans with their Stasi. You can't believe the accomplices of evil.

The figures for deaths in the Soviet occupied and controlled lands would have been added to the killings done by the Nazis. The Nazis did tend to kill people in many of the countries they occupied.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 12:41 PM
The 1937 figure is for Russia only - as I said in my original post. In total, there would have been about 170 million humans in the Soviet Union.



Most of those countries were under Soviet control and before that, under Nazi control. The Poles and Hungarians and Baltic nations provided many members of the SS and later keen communists. There were even keen communists amongst the East Germans with their Stasi. You can't believe the accomplices of evil.

The figures for deaths in the Soviet occupied and controlled lands would have been added to the killings done by the Nazis. The Nazis did tend to kill people in many of the countries they occupied.

You go totally nuts now.
How desperate are you?

You posted:

1928 148 million

1937 100 million

No Germans around in Russia/SU, as said many times now, between 1917 and 1939/40.

A drop of 48 million people before WWII in Bolshevist occupied area, and you go on in your religious madness, simply ignoring over 20 years of jewish red terror.

This is mental!

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 12:59 PM
I don't know what you are going on about. You have now at least twice misquoted me. See below for the 1937 figure, which I said referred only to Russia and not to the whole Soviet Union.

What do you mean by referring to Jewish red terror? Are you saying that 66 million people were killed in Poland, the Baltic states, Hungary, etc during that period? Have you forgotten that there was war between Poland and Ukraine and between Poland and Russia after the First World War? And the Russian civil war? I really don't know what you are going on about. You don't even quote me properly and seem to deliberately leave out important facts that I clearly communicated. What's your game then?

As I wrote 8 minutes and 33.443 seconds ago in another thread in answer to Tinyint's (I think) allegation that the Soviets killed 50+ million:

The population of the USSR

1928 148 million

1937 100 million but this was just for Russia and not the far east and the Caucasus area.

1973 250 million

1990 290 million

Lets say there were 170 million in total in 1937. If 50 million died, that would be nearly 1 in 3 people.

These are taken from official Soviet census and other figures.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't know what you are going on about. You have now at least twice misquoted me. See below for the 1937 figure, which I said referred only to Russia and not to the whole Soviet Union.

What do you mean by referring to Jewish red terror? Are you saying that 66 million people were killed in Poland, the Baltic states, Hungary, etc during that period? Have you forgotten that there was war between Poland and Ukraine and between Poland and Russia after the First World War? And the Russian civil war? I really don't know what you are going on about. You don't even quote me properly and seem to deliberately leave out important facts that I clearly communicated. What's your game then?

Ffs, what about the figure of 1928? 1928 SU figures, Russia only 1937? lol, I don't buy your utter twist to get out of the dilemma.

48 million people missing, by your own given figures. From 1973 onwards, its SU figures, before that, its Russia figures alone.

These wars were fought by bolshevists, as eg Ukraine became more or less forcefully member of the jewish red SU terror club in 1922.

The Polish–Soviet War (February 1919 – March 1921) was an armed conflict with Soviet Russia and Soviet Ukraine pitted against the Second Polish Republic and the Ukrainian People's Republic, four states in post–World War I Europe.


And yes, I am exactly saying the red terror killed at least 50+ million people.
Russian civil war is a friendly word for red terror. Who fought this war? Terrorist bolshevists against the czar?
Correctly its called the bolshevist revolution, or october revolution of 1917.

The Russian Civil War (1917–23) was a multi-party war that occurred within the former Russian Empire after the Russian provisional government collapsed to the Soviets, under the domination of the Bolshevik party. Soviet forces first assumed power in Petrograd (St. Petersburg) and subsequently gained control throughout Russia.

The principal fighting occurred between the Bolshevik Red Army, often in temporary alliance with other leftist pro-revolutionary groups, and the forces of the White Army, the loosely-allied anti-Bolshevik forces.

Same as "rebels" fight in Libya. I know. :rolleyes:

Why don't you acknowledge the rise of red terror in 1917?
In makes a full 20 years period of suffering, starving, deportation, killing long before the Germans entered this madness, all over eastern Europe.
Financed from Wall Street and London, Trotzky and Lenin, both Jews.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Listen verrrry carefully for I shall say zis only wernce:

1928 148 million human animals in the Soviet Union.

1937 100 million human animals in Russia.

1973 250 million human animals in the Soviet Union.

Probably about 170 million human animals in the Soviet Union in 1937 (my estimate, but as I am a professional population estimator, it is probably very accurate).

The wars were fought by Bolshies on one side but they needed an enemy to fight against. Presumably non-Bolshies.

I have never denied the rise of the Red Terror, nor their killings. Nor the conitued pograms against Jews after the First World War.

Just as I have never denied the rise of the Nazi Terror and their gassings and other killings. Nor have I denied the battles in Germany between the commies and the Nazis, including the one where Hitler ran away.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 01:32 PM
Actually, the battle where Adolf did a runner was against coppers. But, by the thinking of some people on this forum, anyone who opposed the Nazis must have been Commies. Which means the coppers were Commies.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Actually, the battle where Adolf did a runner was against coppers. But, by the thinking of some people on this forum, anyone who opposed the Nazis must have been Commies. Which means the coppers were Commies.

Instead of starting the drivel and trolling program, explain me why Russia missed 48 million people between 1928 and 1937.

Where are they? Eventually buried in the mass graves you deny?
Eventually the bones belong to the dead, they found in the mass graves?

The Winter War (Finnish: Talvisota, Swedish: Vinterkriget, Russian: Зимняя война (trans. Zimnyaya voyna)[25] was a military conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland. It began with a Soviet offensive on 30 November 1939 – three months after the start of World War II and the Soviet invasion of Poland – and ended on 13 March 1940 with the Moscow Peace Treaty. The League of Nations deemed the attack illegal and expelled the Soviet Union from the League on 14 December 1939

Good the SU has been founding member of the red masonic criminal UN.

1928 148 million human animals in the Soviet Union.

1937 100 million human animals in Russia.

You should listen carefully, you will not succeed in claiming a piece of shit to be gold.

148 million in 1928 is simply too small figure to be SU figure, say for 1917, it should be roughly about 200 million for SU.

I know you found your figure here...
http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/government/1928/sufds/ch01.htm

:rolleyes:

Population of russia in 1920 was about 137 million.
Wiki states

Population
- 1897 est. 125,640,021
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire


Drop of 25 million for Russia alone.
Now compare to your 1937 figure, you admitted its a Russia only figure. Zionist math again.

Soviet/SU figures.
1917 184.6 million
1926 147.0 million


37.6 million difference!


Why are the russians animals? You freaking talmudic racist piece of dirt.

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30.

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still ANIMALS in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855.

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425.

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b.

"Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Lets look at ziopedia:

The Soviet Census held on January 6, 1937 was the most controversial of the censuses taken within the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The census results were destroyed and its organizers were sent to the Gulag as saboteurs because the census showed much lower population figures than anticipated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_%281937%29


Yet it is worth to note that there was only 15,000,000 population increase between 1920 and 1926 constituting in some 131,304,931 people according to the TIME magazine while is still undisclosed in Russian history.[2] The 1923 Census was restricted to cities. Prior to the Russian Revolution, the only Russian Empire Census was done in 1897.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_All-Union_Census_of_the_Soviet_Union


http://countrystudies.us/russia/10.htm

Note the almost stagnation of population growth from 1920 until begin of WWII, but the increase after Stalin died onwards. And wiki draws from soviet official figures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Before_WW_II

So in fact we know pretty much nothing about Russian/Soviet Union demographics during bolshevist terror.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 11:19 PM
Instead of starting the drivel and trolling program, explain me why Russia missed 48 million people between 1928 and 1937.

Where are they? Eventually buried in the mass graves you deny?
Eventually the bones belong to the dead, they found in the mass graves?

Good the SU has been founding member of the red masonic criminal UN.

You should listen carefully, you will not succeed in claiming a piece of shit to be gold.

148 million in 1928 is simply too small figure to be SU figure, say for 1917, it should be roughly about 200 million for SU.

I know you found your figure here...
marxists.org/history/ussr/government/1928/sufds/ch01.htm

:rolleyes:

Population of russia in 1920 was about 137 million.
Wiki states

Drop of 25 million for Russia alone.
Now compare to your 1937 figure, you admitted its a Russia only figure. Zionist math again.

Soviet/SU figures.


37.6 million difference!

Why are the russians animals? You freaking talmudic racist piece of dirt.

English is not your first language so I think we should forgive you for your seeming inability to understand what I write.

To find the population of the USSR I searched for the following terms on goggle:

population 1940s of the USSR

population of the USSR

Then I read the descriptions of the websites and chose those that mentioned dates leading up the the war and afterwards. Now that I look at those pages again I see the word 'marxist' does appear in at least one of the descriptions. The bit in green at the end with the web address. So what? Official figures probably would be from a Marxist organisation.

For the 35th time, the 1937 figure is for Russia. Russia was part of the USSR. The other figures are for the USSR. Russia, being part of the USSR, is smaller than the USSR. Being smaller and not containing all the people who are in the USSR, it is likely to have a smaller population than the USSR. And it did. It had 100 human animals in 1937. I looked at the other figures I gave and noticed that the population of the USSR seemed to increase by about 20 million a decade. So I added about 20 million to the 1928 figure to give 170 million for 1937.

Why mention the Finnish War? The war that started after the Germans invaded Poland and started to massacre the Poles - especially if they were Jews.

I don't really care what the population of the USSR was. I mentioned it because I was trying to discover where the 50 million you think the Soviets killed came from. You went on to say that they came from countries outside the Soviet Union. That's an end to that. Why harp on about it?

In case you don't know, humans are animals. How is calling an animal an animal being racialist? The Armenians were part of the Soviet Union. Being one-quarter Armenian, I am hardly likely to insult them. You really do get hold of the wrong end of the stick. Not only am I not racialist, I am not speciesist either. I never call non-human animals animals. I always call them non-human animals or by their species name to differentiate them from human animals.

vegan_on_the_land
10-07-2011, 11:21 PM
Lets look at ziopedia:

So in fact we know pretty much nothing about Russian/Soviet Union demographics during bolshevist terror.


I think we can agree about that. In fact, I don't think there are any accurate population figures for any country. Stalin and the Soviets were just as big liars as Hitler and the Nazis. And more or less as scummy and evil.

tinyint
10-07-2011, 11:22 PM
English is not your first language so I think we should forgive you for your seeming inability to understand what I write.

To find the population of the USSR I searched for the following terms on goggle:

population 1940s of the USSR

population of the USSR

Then I read the descriptions of the websites and chose those that mentioned dates leading up the the war and afterwards. Now that I look at those pages again I see the word 'marxist' does appear in at least one of the descriptions. The bit in green at the end with the web address. So what? Official figures probably would be from a Marxist organisation.

For the 35th time, the 1937 figure is for Russia. Russia was part of the USSR. The other figures are for the USSR. Russia, being part of the USSR, is smaller than the USSR. Being smaller and not containing all the people who are in the USSR, it is likely to have a smaller population than the USSR. And it did. It had 100 human animals in 1937. I looked at the other figures I gave and noticed that the population of the USSR seemed to increase by about 20 million a decade. So I added about 20 million to the 1928 figure to give 170 million for 1937.

Why mention the Finnish War? The war that started after the Germans invaded Poland and started to massacre the Poles - especially if they were Jews.

I don't really care what the population of the USSR was. I mentioned it because I was trying to discover where the 50 million you think the Soviets killed came from. You went on to say that they came from countries outside the Soviet Union. That's an end to that. Why harp on about it?

In case you don't know, humans are animals. How is calling an animal an animal being racialist? The Armenians were part of the Soviet Union. Being one-quarter Armenian, I am hardly likely to insult them. You really do get hold of the wrong end of the stick. Not only am I not racialist, I am not speciesist either. I never call non-human animals animals. I always call them non-human animals or by their species name to differentiate them from human animals.

What has this drivel to do that you simply cannot do maths?

Are jews animals?

You should have saved your energy for doing calculation instead of wasting it with pointless nonsense.

Are you being aware you do us all a favour of constantly bumping the thread?

The important stuff is early on, so you just punch yourself in the face again and cause a little nuisance.

vegan_on_the_land
11-07-2011, 12:08 AM
What has this drivel to do that you simply cannot do maths?

Are jews animals?

You should have saved your energy for doing calculation instead of wasting it with pointless nonsense.

Are you being aware you do us all a favour of constantly bumping the thread?

The important stuff is early on, so you just punch yourself in the face again and cause a little nuisance.

I have no idea what you are waffling on about. I don't care now about populations in the USSR. It is now irrelevant. Yes, Jews are animals.

Good night and sweet dreams.

tinyint
12-07-2011, 01:31 PM
bump (http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=142348)

http://southeastasianews.org/rahm_arrested_chertoff1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-71043-0003,_Wladimir_Iljitsch_Lenin.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-71043-0003,_Wladimir_Iljitsch_Lenin.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SSUbVSG_KVY/TOkvVVWsI9I/AAAAAAAAAS0/eG6dOcF8TjU/s1600/Michael_Chertoff.jpg

vegan_on_the_land
12-07-2011, 06:08 PM
What was the point of posting those pictures? Are you trying to waste the bandwidth of this forum? I believe the charges for hosting it will increase if it goes over a certain bandwidth.

eternal_spirit
16-07-2011, 12:05 PM
bump (http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=142348)

Intresting pics Tiny the last one looks like one of Lenin's relations. BTW readers the underlined bump is a link..

tinyint
03-08-2011, 07:27 PM
Quite good documentary on RT.

Soviet files: GULAG monster
http://rt.com/programs/documentary/soviet-files-gulag-monster/


One of the most contradictory figures in Soviet history: Stalin's right hand and supervisor of the USSR's GULAGs. The circumstances of his life and his death are a mystery. But there are still some shocking facts that have recently been uncovered. Who is Lavrenty Beria? Find the answer in a new documentary only on RT.

drakul
03-08-2011, 09:30 PM
bump (http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=142348)

http://southeastasianews.org/rahm_arrested_chertoff1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-71043-0003,_Wladimir_Iljitsch_Lenin.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-71043-0003,_Wladimir_Iljitsch_Lenin.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SSUbVSG_KVY/TOkvVVWsI9I/AAAAAAAAAS0/eG6dOcF8TjU/s1600/Michael_Chertoff.jpg

Chertoff is downright scary. An evil psychopath - written all over his face, especially in the eyes. Never seen a US public servant this demented looking before, shades of the future?

tinyint
05-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Intresting pics Tiny the last one looks like one of Lenin's relations. BTW readers the underlined bump is a link..

http://eshop.esoteric-center.biz/images/product/menorah2.jpg

http://joi.org/bloglinks/Public%20Menorah%20displays%20-%20Chabad%20-%20JTA_files/16114.jpg

Note the difference, 7 arms of traditional menorah, 9 arms on the cult one.
Beldazaar has a thread running on the 7, Rodin on the 9.

7 is a prime number, 9 is not. ;)

bjornyvan
05-08-2011, 09:03 PM
In order to understand Soviet and the socialist movement you have to see the documentary "In the shadow of Hermes" by Jyri Lina. Jyri's not happy about people watching his films and reading his books for free, so you could also go over to his site and order something. The guy works hard so I sympathize with him. I just sent him a small donation.

http://jyrilina.com/

Juri Lina - In the Shadow of Hermes, pt. 1 - YouTube

lightgiver
06-08-2011, 01:38 PM
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5951/41oryghkjlss500.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/41oryghkjlss500.jpg/)

the english are germans anyway

The English are Germans The Welsh are real Britons - YouTube

The English are basically Germans, geneticists at London university have discovered. The Telegraph reports:

“There is no use in denying it,” Der Spiegel, the German news magazine, wrote this week. “It is now clear the nation which most dislikes the Germans were once Krauts themselves.”

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8541/hitlerpriests.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/hitlerpriests.jpg/)

ES the catholic Job's comforter

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9016/priestssalute.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/priestssalute.jpg/)

Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukölln stadium in August 1933.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1059363321&postcount=16

bjornyvan
07-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Hi eternal spirit

Very nice pics of non-Aryans in SS/Wehrmacht uniforms!

About the pics of the Japs/Chinese/Koreans: I believe these were people who served in the theatre in Asia. The Germans had some territory in China, did they not? (They did, but I don't know much about that part of the war.)

Another guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Chiang_Wei-kuo_Nazi_1.jpg/200px-Chiang_Wei-kuo_Nazi_1.jpg

"In the Wehrmacht

With his sibling Chiang Ching-kuo being held as a virtual political hostage in the Soviet Union by Joseph Stalin having prior been a student studying in Moscow, Chiang sent Wei-kuo to Germany for a military education at the Munich Military Academy (Kriegshochschule). Here, he would learn the most up to date German military tactical doctrines, organization, and use of weaponry on the modern battlefield such as the German-inspired theory of the Maschinengewehr (Medium machine gun, at this time, the MG-34) led squad, incorporation of Air and Armored branches into infantry attack, etc. After completing this training, Wei-kuo completed specialized Alpine warfare training, thus earning him the coveted Gebirgsjäger (The elite Wehrmacht Mountain Troop) Edelweiss sleeve insignia. This was not an easy accomplishment, as part of the training selection included carrying 30 kilos of ruck sack through the Bavarian Alps. Wei-kuo was promoted to Unteroffizier (also known as Fahnenjunker, or Officer Candidate) and was evidently a fine marksman, as his pictures depict him wearing the Schützenschnur lanyard.

Wei-kuo commanded a Panzer unit during the 1938 Austrian Anschluss as a sergeant officer-candidate,[4] leading a tank into that country; subsequently, he was promoted to Lieutenant of a Panzer unit awaiting to be sent into Poland. Before he was given the mobilization order, he was recalled to China"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Wei-kuo

lightgiver
07-08-2011, 05:24 PM
Gurkhas are best known for their history in the Indian Army's Gorkha regiments, the British Army's Brigade of Gurkhas and the Nepalese Army.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9639/44008859gurkhasap.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/44008859gurkhasap.jpg/)

The 1 Gorkha Rifles is a Gorkha infantry regiment of the Indian Army. It was originally formed as part of the British Indian Army in 1815

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/2073/joannalumleywiththegurk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/joannalumleywiththegurk.jpg/)

Gurkha also spelled Gorkha or Ghurka; Nepali: गोर्खा) are people from South Asia who take their name from the 8th century Hindu warrior-saint Guru Gorakhnath

http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Gurkha-Fine-Foods-Green-Lentil-Dhal-Curry-Sauce-Big.jpg

England has forty-two religions and only two sauces.
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)

Gurkha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.hiddenengland.com.ar/gurkha_index.htm

montage
28-08-2011, 04:52 AM
What were the scales of the Stalin’s purges and repressions? Basically all publications about the number of repressed divide on two categories. The first category consists from denunciators of the co-called «Totalitarian regime» citing enormously large multimillion numbers of executed and imprisoned. At the same time all these «truth-seekers» stubbornly try to omit the archive data, particularly publicized material which can be found in free access in the internet. Instead of referring to some real archives they either refer to each other or just restrain themselves with phrases like «it is estimated» or «according to the studies» and so on.

However, every conscientious and honest researcher who studies this issue rather quickly finds out that apart from ‘’recollections of eye-witnesses’’ there is a plethora of documental sources: In the funds of Russian Central State Archive and highest state governing institutes were found a couple of thousands documents referring to the GULAGs activities. It should be noted that GULAG essentially was a Soviet name of the prisons, prisons which every country has in nowadays and always had before. For some people in may sound as a discover, but every prison has recording and every prisoner has his personal dossier this dossiers are regularly count and all prison documentation always contains full data about its current and former prisoners and their numbers. Consequently in order to find out the exact numbers, a researcher should not ‘’estimate’’ and pluck the numbers out of the air, he should check the archive documents and collect the data.

And after examining the archives, such a researcher to his surprise realizes that the scales of repressions about which many people ‘’know’’ from medias and books of some Western propagandists or pseudo-historians are not just beyond the reality, but overestimated and exaggerated in tens times. A researcher faces a serious dilemma: professional etiquette tells that founded material should be published, on another hand fear of being labeled as a Stalin’s defender also prevails. The result of such a «tough choice» is usually a «compromised» publication containing a standard bunch of anti-Stalins epithets and the real numbers which are unlike derived out of the thin air numbers, confirmed by the correspondent documents from the archives.

The number of repressed

The most famous among the published documents which includes the summary information about repressions is a memorandum addressed to Khrushchev:

http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/1108/be/adf97ba1b6ea.jpg

To the secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union N.S. Khrushchev

With reference of received information from some people of the Central Committee about illegally convicted for counterrevolution activity in past years by Special Council of NKVD, NKVD Troika, Military Collegiums, trial courts and military tribunals and in accordance with your order to reconsider the dossiers of convicted we report:

Since 1921 until present it was convicted 3.777.380 people. Among them:

The 25 years maximum terms of imprisonment – 2.369.220
Exilement and removal – 762.180
Capital punishment – 642.930
From the total amount of convicted, approximately 2.900.000 people were convicted by Special Council of NKVD, NKDV Troika and 877.000 people by trial courts, military tribunals, special collegiums and military collegiums.


From the presented document it is clear that since 1921 until the beginning of 1954 year it was executed 642.980 people with the political allegations, imprisoned - 2.369.220, exiled or removed – 765.180. It should be noted that not all capital punishments were carried into effect. For example in 1934 there were 3849 inmates in prisons who were sentenced to capital punishment but subsequently their death warrants were changed on the 10-15 years terms, in 1935 – 5671, in 1936 – 7303, in 1937 – 6239, in 1938 – 5926, in 1939 – 3425, in 1940 – 4037.

The number of prisoners

"Are sure the information from this memorandum quadrates to facts?", - exclaims skeptically feeling reader who is thanks to the years of brainwash surely ‘’knows’’ about millions of executed and tens millions of sent to the camps. Well, let’s refer to the more detailed statistic. Contrary to the «strugglers with totalitarism» claims, such statistic can be found not only in the archives, but was published and currently is in free access.
Let’s begin from the number of prisoners in GULAGs. I’d like to remind that all convicted for 3 years and higher usually were in correctional labour camps (ITL, Russian: Исправительно Трудовые Лагеря, Ispravitelno Trudovie Lagerya), and convicted for lower than 3 years terms in correctional labour colonies (ITK, Russian: Исправительно Трудовые Колонии, Ispravitelno Trudovie Colonii).

Number of the Prisoners in NKVD camps by years on each 1st of January

http://i056.radikal.ru/1108/49/83424c8111fe.jpg

http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/1108/8d/6c22ac4c45a0.jpg

However those who got used to take Solzhenicin’s opuses as a Holy Bible don’t want to believe even in the direct links on the documents. ‘’These documents are NKVD documents, and consequently they are falsified’’ – they say – ‘’From where these numbers were derived?’

Well, specifically for such dogged freaks, I’d like to show some examples where such numbers were derived from. The year 1935:

NKVD camps, their labour specialization and the numbers of prisoners
on the 11th of January 1935
http://s014.radikal.ru/i329/1108/c2/bb9b4e26402c.jpg

Four years later:

Number of prisoners in the NKVD camps on the 1st of January 1939
http://s003.radikal.ru/i204/1108/39/be3fb66185f1.png

However like I mentioned before, apart from the ITL camps there were ITK camps. Before the autumn 1938, ITKs along with the jails were under the Prison Administration NKVD. Therefore presented statistic below is shared with jails:

Number of the Prisoners in ITK and jails by years
http://s16.radikal.ru/i191/1108/74/45d8b1babf7f.jpg

Since 1939 ITK were under GULAG Administration control, and prisons under the Main Prison Administration (GTU) NKVD.

The number of prisoners at ITKs on each 1st of January by years.
http://s005.radikal.ru/i210/1108/c9/c8c6dfd4e841.jpg

Now we can compose the table of the number of prisoners in the USSR under Stalin by years:

http://i066.radikal.ru/1108/2e/48a3541293dc.jpg

V.Nekrasov in his book "Tridsat "zheleznyh" narkomov" says that in the number of prisoners in 1933 г. was 334 thousands, in 1934 - 510 thousands, in 1935 - 991 thousands, in 1936 - 1296 thousands, in 1944 – 1450 thousands; in 1953 – 2526 thousands.

From the western researches I’d recommend to read S. Wheatcroft (Australia), R. Davis (England), G. Rittersporn (France).

According to the data of A. Kokurin and N. Petrov (both are the members of Memorial organization*), on the first of July 1944 the camps contained 1.2 million inmates, on the 30th of December 1945 - 1.6 millions.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society))

And in additional here is the data of the number of inmates in the prisons which were under GULAG administration control (the data also collected from Memorial organization):

http://s12.radikal.ru/i185/1108/4a/970b8c4f69ed.jpg

Also I can recommend the fact book which was published by Memorial: The system of labor camps in the USSR, 1923-1960. Moscow, 1998, which confirms the above figures (unfortunetely the book is in Russian):

http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/1108/ad/bc87e1569893.jpg

So let’s draw the conclusion – during the Stalin’s run the number of inmates have never exceeded 2 million 760 thousands. Not to mention that the highest numbers were during and after the World War when apart from the Soviet citizens the camps consisted also from German, Italian, Finnish, Hungarian, Romanian and other Axis countries POWs and from deserters, traitors, members of Vlasov army etc.

montage
28-08-2011, 04:58 AM
Now let’s compare it with the citadel of democracy and the main fighter for the human rights and freedom the United States of America:

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) 2,292,133 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2009 — about 1% of adults in the U.S. resident population. Additionally, 4,933,667 adults at year-end 2009 were on probation or on parole. In total, 7,225,800 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison)in 2009 — about 3.1% of adults in the U.S. resident population." In addition, there were 86,927 juveniles in juvenile detention in 2007. (c) WiKi

http://s60.radikal.ru/i167/1108/dd/17852fc9712a.gif

http://s002.radikal.ru/i198/1108/6f/02ffaef60d1e.gif

http://i066.radikal.ru/1108/b5/c32266264921.gif

Strange figures isn’t it? The country which volunteered to be the main defender of the human rights and democracy has such amount of inmates in quite peaceful times (comparing to the WW and pre-WW periods). And it should be noted that totalitarian and communistic China who has constantly been accused by US in human rights violation has lower number of inmates: 1.5 millions in China against 2.3 millions in US (not to mention that the population of China is about 1.3 billion and the US population is approx. 300 millions). And nobody cries on every corner that there are repressions in the USA. Nobody cries that all these 2.3 millions are innocent «victims of the regime», every American will tell you that they all are criminals who deserved to be imprisoned. And of course unlike in the USA, in the Stalin’s USSR all imprisoned were innocent; every democrat knows it for certain. The USSR in fact didn’t have any criminals and the prisons were empty, it was kind of a Disneyland, a land of peaceful hippies with flowers in their hairs and therefore bloody Stalin got bored and decided to fill up the prisons with the innocent citizens, since the criminals were absent.


How many «political» prisoners were among repressed?

It’s quite misleading to assume that the majority of convicted were «victims of political repressions»:

Number of prisoners convicted for counterrevolution activity and other dangerous crimes
http://s009.radikal.ru/i308/1108/c7/22e49e0ec3db.jpg

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/480.jpg

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/478.jpg

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/477.jpg


The expression «other measures» basically implies compulsory treatment or deportation abroad.

From this table can be noticed that the number of «repressed» was higher than it was reported in the Kruscshev’s memorandum – 799.455 sentenced to capital punishment instead of 642.980 and 2.634.397 sentenced to imprisonment instead of 2.369.220. However as we can see the gap isn’t that big, the numbers basically in the same scales and we still can’t find any «tens millions killed» by Stalin.

Besides there is another moment, it is possible that presented table includes a lot of criminals. Because on the second scanned document we can see a rounded number 2.944.879 and a pencil note «among them 30% criminals (1062 thousands) ». In this case the number of «repressed» doesn’t exceed 3 million and the number of executed is also 30% lower than 799.455. But in order to clarify this question in details, further researches should be conducted. Plus each labour camp contained special trials where they were suing the prisoners who broke the camp rules, after such a trial in their dossiers it was put a mark that they were convicted for «counterrevolution activity». The thing is that breaking the camp rules was considered as a counterrevolution activity. Therefore among those 3 millions there are also many criminals who have been convicted for murders, stealing and so on.

http://i054.radikal.ru/1108/0b/fe4f622403b4.jpg

Let's see now, what percentage were "repressed" of the total inmates of the GULAGs:

Percentage of convicts for counterrevolution activity out of the total amount of inmates
http://s005.radikal.ru/i209/1108/f3/6d36bb5bfeb8.jpg


Now let’s see the detailed crimes of GULAG inmates in some years

Number of Prisoners ITL and alleged crimes of prisoners
(On the 1st of April 1940)
http://s004.radikal.ru/i208/1108/74/3c54d0d47c46.jpg

montage
28-08-2011, 05:03 AM
....see my previous two posts on the page 21, the beginning of my article is there.

The number of convicts for counterrevolutionary crimes and banditry,
contained in the camps on the first of July 1946
http://i063.radikal.ru/1108/3f/295ec00b4a0d.jpg


Sorting of the Prisoners of the GULAGs by the nature of crimes
on the 1st January 1951

http://i036.radikal.ru/1108/cc/5302a5c955b3.jpg

Thus as we can see the number of «repressed» among prisoners was lower than 30%. Exception is 1944-1948 period when camps got an appending of vlasovtsy, polizai and other «strugglers with the communistic tyranny».


Mortality among prisoners

The archive data allows answering this question.

Mortality among prisoners in the ITL camps
http://s008.radikal.ru/i303/1108/22/5306c3d59831.jpg


Unfortunately I didn’t find the data for 1948 year.

Mortality rate among the inmates in jails.
http://i023.radikal.ru/1108/78/bbc4606c46b6.jpg

The number of prisoners took as arithmetic middling among the numbers of prisoners between 1st of January and 31st of December.

Mortality on the eve of the war was lower than in the ITK camps. For instance in 1939 it was 2,30%.
http://i043.radikal.ru/1108/20/cf25cba42fdc.jpg

Thus the facts show that contrary to denunciators beliefs, mortality among prisoners under Stalin was maintaining on the low level. However we can see the drastic difference in the 1941-1945 periods and that’s quite explainable, the USSR was taking a part in the World War II and obviously in that times the conditions of prisoners was worse than before. Nutrition standards were diminished and that caused immediate increasing of lethal cases. By the end of 1944 nutrition standards were a little bit improved: in bread – on 12%, in grits – on 24%, in meat and fish on – 40%, in fats – 28% and in vegetables – on 22%, and the mortality subsequently started to downgrade. But even after that nutrition standards were lower than before the war on 30%.
Nevertheless even in the hardest years of war 1942 – 1943, the mortality was about 20%, in jails – 10% per year. Not 10% - 20% per month like Alexander Solzhenicin or other bunch of «historians» claimed. Up to the beginning of 50s, the mortality downgraded before less than 1% and in jails – less than 0.5%.

In conclusion I’d like to say about so-called Special Camps (Osoblags) which were created under the order of Ministry Council of the USSR №416-159 on 21st of February 1948. These camps contained spies, terrorists, saboteurs, trotskists, righties, mensheviks, esers, anarchists, nationalists, white (not the race) movements, members of the anti-soviet organizations and socially dangerous elements.

The number of inmates of the special camps on January 1952
http://s61.radikal.ru/i174/1108/92/40a66724187e.jpg

The mortality rate can be derived from the table below:

Statistic of the special camps on the 1st of January 1951
http://s39.radikal.ru/i084/1108/83/2d25829a38b1.jpg


Contrary to popular beliefs that special camps were «death camps» for dissidents, we can see that in fact the mortality there was approx. 0,29% - 1,15%.

Reference index:

*GARF - Russian: Gosudarstvenniy Archiv Rossiyskoy Federatsii, English: State Archive of the Russian Federation State Archive of the Russian Federation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. P.24.

2. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 6. P.15.

3. Victor Zemskov. Inmates in the 1930s: social and demographic issues / / National History. 1997, № 4. P.67.

4. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. P.23; archival source: 1930-1934. - GARF, f.9414, op.1, d.1155, F. 1, 1935-1940. - Ibid, L.2.

5. GARF*, f.5446, op.11, d.1310, l.13-14.

6. GARF, f.9414, op.1, d.1155, l.20-22.

7. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. P.23.

8. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 6. C.11.

9. The evacuation of prisoners from the prison of the NKVD of the USSR in 1941-1942 / / Military-Historical Archive. 1997, issue 2. S.234.

10. Gulag during World War II / / Military-Historical Journal. 1991. № 1. P.19, P.23.

11. Nekrasov, VF Thirteen "iron" of People's Commissars. M.: "Milestones," 1995. P.172, P 234, P. 241

12. A. Kokurin, Petrov. NKVD-KGB, SMERSH-: structure, functions, and personnel. Article Four (1944-1945) / / Free Thought.1997, № 9. P.95, 96.

13. A. Kokurin, Petrov. MIA: structure, functions, and personnel. Article Sixth (1946-1953) / / Free Thought. 1997, № 12.P.103.

14. Population of the world / ed. B.Ts. Urlanis. MA: "Statistics", 1974. P.23.

15. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. C.26.

16. GARF, f.9401, op.1, d.4157, l.201-205, VP Popov. State terror in Soviet Russia. 1923-1953 gg.: Sources and interpretations / / Domestic archives. 1992, № 2. P.28.

17. V.P. Popov. State terror in Soviet Russia. 1923-1953 gg.: Sources and interpretations / / Domestic archives. 1992, № 2.P.29.

18. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. P.23, 1934-1939. - GARF, f.9414, op.1, d.1155, l.3-6.

19. GARF, f.9414, op.1, d.1155, l.26-27.

20. Alexander Dugin. Stalinism: Legends and Facts / / Word. 1990, № 7. P.25.

21. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 7. P.10-11.

22. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 6. P.14-15, 1931-1940. - GARF, f.9414, op.1, d.1155, L.2, d.2740, F. 1, 5, 8, 14, 26, 38, 42, 48, 58, 96-110, 1949-1952 gg. - AN Dugin Unknown Gulag: The documents and facts. Moscow: Nauka, 1999. P.41, 43, 45, 49.

23. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 7. C.7, AN Dugin Unknown Gulag: The documents and facts. Moscow: Nauka, 1999. P.31.

24. GARF, f.9414, op.1, 28, l.13.

25. Alexander Dugin Unknown Gulag: The documents and facts. Moscow: Nauka, 1999. P.41, 43, 45, 49.

26. Victor Zemskov. Gulag (historical-sociological aspect) / / Case Studies. 1991, № 6. P.21-22.

27. The system of labor camps in the USSR, 1923-1960: A Handbook. M., 1998. P.52.

28. Alexander Dugin Unknown Gulag: The documents and facts. Moscow: Nauka, 1999. P.43, 47.


http://prometej.info/new/images/stories/pravda.gif

bjornyvan
28-08-2011, 09:23 AM
What shameless lies.

Anyone trying to defend the satanic Soviet regime is morally bankrupt.

In the Shadow of Hermes - Communist Freemasons (NWO) Sacrifices to Moloch/Saturn (part 8 of 12) - YouTube

drakul
28-08-2011, 11:36 AM
To Montage -

Amazing the catchall `crimes' the Soviets had -

Members of Families of Traitorous People (!?) :rolleyes:

Diversion?

Abroachment?

Thieves Recividists ?

Socially Dangerous Elements


Result - you could be put in the Gulag, never to be seen again for looking the wrong way at a Commissar. And none of these Commissars have EVER been brought to trial for their crimes. But everyone knows who they are. Why is that?

OTOH the Serbs who tried to protect their people like Gen Mladic during the Yugo civil war have all been sent to that Gulag known as the Hague, there to stand trial until they die. Convicted or not, if they are Serbs they will die there. But Croats and Albanians are released. Why is that?

A weakness in your comparison of Soviet and US prison statistics - You use Soviet statistics from 60 years ago and US statistics from 2009. As a result of the huge invasion of legal and illegal immigrants, the US now has 330 million people now as opposed to 150 million or less during Stalin's time. To be fair you should use statistics from the SAME time period.

Furthermore in the last 30 years, at least 20% of violent crimes are committed here by illegal immigrants and probably another 20% by legal immigrants AND the `legal' born here children of illegals - gangs like the Salvadoran MS13 which has spread over the entire US.

Russia is NOW having more violent crime too from Muslim terrorists and gangs. What are their current crime statistics based on population?

eternal_spirit
28-08-2011, 01:15 PM
Following the end of World War 1, there was a Communist uprising in Berlin, Germany led by Rosa Luxemburg the creation of a Soviet in Bavaria led by Kurt Eisner and a Hungarian communist republic established by Bela Kun in 1919.

At the time there was great concern that all of Europe might fall under the banner of Bolshevism. This sense of impending doom was given vivid life by Trotsky's Red Army invasion of Poland in 1919.

However, the Red Army was defeated by Polish forces at the battle of the Vistula in 1920.
The Bavarian Soviet and Bela Kun governments all failed to gain widespread support from the workers and after a brief time they were all overthrown.


In 1923 Lukacs and other Marxist intellectuals associated with the Communist Party of Germany founded the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University in Frankfurt,
Germany. The Institute, which became known as the Frankfurt School, was modelled after the Marx-Engels Institute in Moscow. In 1933, when Nazis came to power in
Germany, the members of the Frankfurt School fled. Most came to the United States.

The Frankfurt School's studies combined Marxist analysis with Freudian psychoanalysis (sickmind fraud) to
criticise the bases of Western culture.

rodin
28-08-2011, 02:06 PM
Listen verrrry carefully for I shall say zis only wernce:

1928 148 million human animals in the Soviet Union.

1937 100 million human animals in Russia.

1973 250 million human animals in the Soviet Union.

Probably about 170 million human animals in the Soviet Union in 1937 (my estimate, but as I am a professional population estimator, it is probably very accurate).

The wars were fought by Bolshies on one side but they needed an enemy to fight against. Presumably non-Bolshies.

I have never denied the rise of the Red Terror, nor their killings. Nor the conitued pograms against Jews after the First World War.

Just as I have never denied the rise of the Nazi Terror and their gassings and other killings. Nor have I denied the battles in Germany between the commies and the Nazis, including the one where Hitler ran away.

I wonder if the above post is a full house of lies?

lizzy
28-08-2011, 02:21 PM
Hi ES and rodin....

This was posted on A.Watt recently.
01-BEYOND TORTURE -The gulag of Pitesti ROMANIA - YouTube
02-BEYOND TORTURE -The gulag of Pitesti ROMANIA - YouTube

also this one , that has been posted before....

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drakul
28-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Following the end of World War 1, there was a Communist uprising in Berlin, Germany led by Rosa Luxemburg the creation of a Soviet in Bavaria led by Kurt Eisner and a Hungarian communist republic established by Bela Kun in 1919.

At the time there was great concern that all of Europe might fall under the banner of Bolshevism. This sense of impending doom was given vivid life by Trotsky's Red Army invasion of Poland in 1919.

However, the Red Army was defeated by Polish forces at the battle of the Vistula in 1920.
The Bavarian Soviet and Bela Kun governments all failed to gain widespread support from the workers and after a brief time they were all overthrown.

In 1923 Lukacs and other Marxist intellectuals associated with the Communist Party of Germany founded the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University in Frankfurt,
Germany. The Institute, which became known as the Frankfurt School, was modelled after the Marx-Engels Institute in Moscow. In 1933, when Nazis came to power in
Germany, the members of the Frankfurt School fled. Most came to the United States.

The Frankfurt School's studies combined Marxist analysis with Freudian psychoanalysis (sickmind fraud) to
criticise the bases of Western culture.



Frankfurt School - Amazing what passes for higher education these days. Assassinated Serbian Premier, Zoran Djindic was a graduate of the Frankfurt School. This passe' education in revolutionary Communism entitled him to rule Serbia? Or was Djindic just another traitorous commissar? He sent Pres. Milosevich and many other Serbs to the Hague.

lizzy
28-08-2011, 02:24 PM
the error message came from trying to post google vid.....can be found
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/
August 23.

Another discrepancy in numbers but god help us if anything like this is re-visited ......I still believe we are witnessing a de-population agenda.

tinyint
28-08-2011, 03:58 PM
Frankfurt School - Amazing what passes for higher education these days. Assassinated Serbian Premier, Zoran Djindic was a graduate of the Frankfurt School. This passe' education in revolutionary Communism entitled him to rule Serbia? Or was Djindic just another traitorous commissar? He sent Pres. Milosevich and many other Serbs to the Hague.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=175318

Have a read. ES is on the right track with the Frankfurt School. :)

montage
28-08-2011, 04:23 PM
What shameless lies.

Anyone trying to defend the satanic Soviet regime is morally bankrupt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMCbDLwpveE
Where did you see any defend? Show me the post where I defended someone. And this is your evidence that it's a lie? This video? All you can say? Nice man, you are a truly historian. Denial of the facts is quite typical for people like you.


To Montage -

Amazing the catchall `crimes' the Soviets had -

Members of Families of Traitorous People (!?) :rolleyes:

Diversion?

Abroachment?

Thieves Recividists ?

Socially Dangerous Elements
Yep all these crimes were maybe it just sounds weird in english, I just never seen an English language criminal code and don't know the analogue translation of technical terms of law, I was translating it literally. All these articles except for the family membership exist in Russia right now, so I see nothing surprised in it, what's the point? It is just russian juridical names of the crimes. For instance different ''Forest Brothers'' were blowing the trains (not in the WW II times) or any other gangs. I can collect you the data of crimes in the USSR in these periods. As for members of families, well as u could too quite small group of people have been convicted according with that article.

OTOH the Serbs who tried to protect their people like Gen Mladic during the Yugo civil war have all been sent to that Gulag known as the Hague, there to stand trial until they die. Convicted or not, if they are Serbs they will die there. But Croats and Albanians are released. Why is that?
I completely agree you on this issue. But you are talking about different things right now. Political rivals and mess in the USSR have nothing to do with the demise of Yugoslavia which was artiffically made by the Western World. If you want to understand what was behind the repressions you have to read this book for instance, I could recommend you others but they are all in Russian. In the book below, it is quite accuratly showed the party structure and all processes inside which caused the purge. The tone of the book is neigher pro-Stalins, nor anti-Stalins. It's just a nice bunch of material from the person who wants to understand the history instead of reading anti/pro-communists propaganda.

John Archibald Getty - Origins of the Great Purges

http://www3.alibris-static.com/isbn/9780521335706.gif

Result - you could be put in the Gulag, never to be seen again for looking the wrong way at a Commissar. And none of these Commissars have EVER been brought to trial for their crimes. But everyone knows who they are. Why is that?
Man, nobody denies that some part of the innocent people were put in GULAG, but unfortuntetly for anti-stalinists, the archives don't mention any ''60 millions of imprisoned and 20 millions shot'', have u ever seen the author who shows the real evidences of 20 millions killed? They don't have any single fact. The aim of my article was to show the real numbers and scales of the repressions. Don't take it backwards. My intentions are not to justify or diaoblize Stalin, I just try to understand the history as it was, without any motts or political underlying. Without history rewriting and speculating on the numbers. And that's why I show that ''20-40-60 millions killed and imprisoned'' it is a myth created during the Cold War by western ''historians'' and russian dissidents abroad (who of course had to earn money their somehow), and comparing this to the US figures I also would liked to show that the number of innocents in these camps was lower, only idiot will think that everyone who was imprisoned under Stalin was an angel with wings. The figures I showed are documented, I provided scans of the main documents from the archive data, I can provide more and u will not find there any tens millions executed. That was my point. 700 - 800 thousands executed it is of course high number and I don't dance on the bones of these executed and cry ''oh the killed not enough'', moreover many people who were responsible for this like Yezhov faced a trial in 1938 for all that.

A weakness in your comparison of Soviet and US prison statistics - You use Soviet statistics from 60 years ago and US statistics from 2009. As a result of the huge invasion of legal and illegal immigrants, the US now has 330 million people now as opposed to 150 million or less during Stalin's time. To be fair you should use statistics from the SAME time period.
This is not a weakness =) I just showed that therere is a country who has the same amount of prisoners and nobody say ''repressions''. And the population of the USSR during Stalin's repressions was roughly 190 millions and 170 millions after the WW II yes almost lower than US has now, but it's not that drastic gap. How do you think, what the crime level will be in a country which had one of the most cruel war, foreign intervention Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and took a part in two world wars? I think the answer is obvious. While the nowadays US didn't have all this recently. As for the same period, well if you check the population statistic of the US from the same period u may notice that 10 millions of Americans just vaporized after the greatest depression. http://www.cherada.com/articulos/10-million-americans-disappeared-during-the-great-depression-time and http://beforeitsnews.com/story/283/639/American_Holocaust:7.5_million_Die_In_The_Great_De pression.html But again, nobody shouts on every corner about ''evil Roosvelt''. Though who knows how long such depression could last, Roosvelt in fact didn't eliminate it, he just made it slightly softer. In fact the thing that save the US from depression was the WW II, since Europe devastated itself, the US received new market outlets and the absence of competitors.

Furthermore in the last 30 years, at least 20% of violent crimes are committed here by illegal immigrants and probably another 20% by legal immigrants AND the `legal' born here children of illegals - gangs like the Salvadoran MS13 which has spread over the entire US.

Russia is NOW having more violent crime too from Muslim terrorists and gangs. What are their current crime statistics based on population?
Well y'know it sounds weird to pin everything on immigrantes in the US since the entire US is basically the country of immigrants ;) Besides I deliberately provided the comparison figure of the number of prisoners per capita. Other countries apart from the US and Russia have much lower rate, and don't tell be that the European Union countries don't have immigrants :)

You thin USSR didn't have any terrirosts or gangs after the revolution and civil war? Do you know who is Forest Brothers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ? Plus a lot of criminals during the WW. Current Russia and the US are in far more better conditions than the USSR was in 30s.

tinyint
28-08-2011, 04:25 PM
You thin USSR didn't have any terrirosts or gangs after the revolution and civil war?

You talk about the terrorist jewish bolsheviks which London and NY have sent out, don't you?

montage
28-08-2011, 04:32 PM
Double post, sorry.

montage
28-08-2011, 04:35 PM
You talk about the terrorist jewish bolsheviks, don't you?
I'm talking about people who were blowing the trains and storages. I'm talking about the gangs and high level of crimes during the ''New Economic Policy'' initialized by Lenin which basically failed and led to enormous increase of the crime level in Russia. I'm talking about dozens of pro-white movements funded from the West Europe particulary from the immigrants who after the loose in Civil War tried to make a coup in the country.

tinyint
28-08-2011, 04:36 PM
I'm talking about people who were blowing the trains and storages. I'm talking about the gangs and high level of crimes during the ''New Economic Policy'' initialized by Lenin which basically failed and led to enormous increase of the crime level in Russia.

So yes, you talk about the jewish bolsheviks, the red murder horde of the banksters.

Good we agree on that.

You might probably want to read this very thread before starting ground hog day all over again?

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060014427&postcount=176

tinyint
28-08-2011, 04:42 PM
1933-1935: Deportations of "socially harmful elements" and "people of the past" from a number of Soviet cities ***

At the beginning of 1933, the Soviet government launched a vast "cleansing" campaign to rid the major cities "of all the superfluous elements not related to production, kulak elements, criminals and other socially harmful elements." Those "elements" that had been denied the right to reside in "special regime" cities (Moscow, Leningrad and a dozen important and relatively well supplied cities) were raided by the police and immediately deported to Siberia and Kazakhstan on simple administrative procedures. Amidst great chaos, convoys of deportees were unloaded in the middle of nowhere, as evidenced by the tragic episode of some 6,000 "socially harmful elements," shipped by convoy from Moscow and Leningrad towards Tomsk (Siberia) in April 1933. Upon arrival at their destination, these deportees were transported by barge to a small deserted island in the middle of the Ob River where they were left without food or tools. 4,000 died of hunger and exhaustion (Werth, 2006/a). In the course of 1933, over 100,000 "socially harmful elements" were deported from "special regime" cities on expedited administrative procedures. This was approximately 40% of the total number (268,000) of 1933 deportees. The remaining 60% were mostly peasants who had been caught trying to flee famine, or kolkhoz deportees, at times entire villages accused of having "sabotaged the collection plan" (Zemskov, 2003: 24 sq). One such "cleansing" operation intended to rid Soviet cities of "undesired inhabitants," took place in February and March of 1935, shortly after the assassination of S. Kirov (December 1, 1934). 4,833 "heads of households" labeled "people of the past" (byvsie) - former officials and ex-czarist officers, ex-nobility and in general, all those who had belonged to the political or social elites of the Old Regime, as well as members of the clergy - in total 11,200 persons (including family members), were expelled from Leningrad and exiled to small provincial towns in the Volga region. For the majority of these deportees, exile was merely the first step on a road leading to the "Great Terror" of 1937-1938 when deportees were either sent to labor camps or executed (Ivanov, 1998: 118-130).
1935-1937: Deportations of ethnic minorities in view of "cleansing" the border regions of the USSR***

From 1935 on, the Soviet government kept increasing "cleansing" operations in border regions, which were increasingly perceived as a front line.

In February and March of 1935, some 3,500 Finnish, Latvian and Estonian families were deported to Kazakhstan, Siberia and Tadjikistan as part of the first operation, which took place in the Leningrad area (Martin, 2001: 333 sq). At the same time, 8,300 families (41,650 people) were deported from border districts of the Kiev and Vinnitsa area. The majority of deportees were Soviet citizens of Polish and German origin. Others were categorized as "socially foreign elements." In these first few operations, which were still limited and selective, the ethnic criterion was "mixed" with class considerations, in line with communist political culture.

In 1936, "cleansing" operations in border regions were continued and amplified. In April and May of 1936, a second group of 5,000 families of Finnish origin was deported from the Leningrad area. In June and September of 1936, 15,000 families of Polish and German origin residing in Western Ukraine, along the border with Poland, were deported to Kazakhstan. The greatest deportations began in September-October 1936 when the entire Korean community from Soviet Far East border regions (Vladivostok, Khabarovsk, Birobidjan) was deported. In a secret resolution of the central Committee of the Communist Party, dated August 21, 1937, such mass deportation was justified by the belief that the Korean population constituted "a breeding ground for spies and diversionists for the Japanese secret service." For the first time, an entire national minority, 172,000 individuals in total, was deported. In order to manage such an operation within a predetermined two-month deadline, the NKVD had to mobilize 124 railway convoys, which were used to transport the Korean deportees to Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan (Polian, 2001: 87-92).
August 1937-November 1938: Mass arrests and executions during the "Great Terror"

Within sixteen months, over one and a half million persons were arrested. Half of these persons (800,000) were sentenced to death, the other half to ten years of forced labor in the Gulag by emergency tribunals (troiki - "three member commissions," dvoiki - "two member commissions," Special Conference, Military College of the Supreme Court). These emergency courts would examine the cases as they were presented to them by the NKVD, with no defense and in the absence of the accused. Recent research focused on this paroxysm of Stalinist repression has rejected two widely circulated ideas, firstly that denunciations emanating from the community allowed an "uncontrolled outburst" of terror; secondly that the main victims were Communists and Party executives (Nikita Khrushchev’s thesis in his "Secret Report" to the XXth Congress of February 1956). In reality, the "Great Terror" was essentially the result of "secret mass repression operations," which were decided and planned by Stalin in person, assisted by Nikolai Yezhov, Commissary of the People for the Interior, and systematically carried out by a colossal State security apparatus. These "secret mass repression operations" appear as the radical and murderous product of a series of social engineering operations in place since the beginning of the 1930’s. Such secret terrorist operations should be clearly distinguished from the purges of political, economic, military and intellectual elites and dignitaries, which were being carried out in parallel, by means of different extra-judicial procedures, with different objectives and a different political function. These purges were highly ‘popularized’ through public ‘discoveries’ of countless plots and acts of sabotage, arrests amidst the communist leadership and executions following ‘pedagogic’ public political trials. Although they were a spectacular and politically significant public face of the "Great Terror," nevertheless accounted for only a small fraction of the 1937-1938 victims: 40,000 to 50,000 of a total of 800,000 executed. The "Great Purges," as some historians continue to label this paroxysm of Stalinist extermination, is thus a misleading characterization. The term "Purge" should be reserved to describe political purges, which were recurrent but seldom fatal within the Soviet system.

1937; July 30: NKVD Secret Operational Order n° 00447 "On repression operations against ex-kulaks, criminals and other counter-revolutionary elements." The purpose of these operations was "to eradicate once and for all" (according to Nikolai Yezhov’s own words in the Preamble to Order n° 00447) a broad range of what could be called "traditional" enemies of the regime: in particular, "ex-kulaks returned after completing their sentences or after escaping deportation," "recidivists," "former members of non-Bolshevik parties," "former czarist officials or gendarmes," "anti-Soviet elements among White, Cossack or clerical groups," as well as "sectarians or clergymen engaging in anti-Soviet activities." Quotas of individuals to be shot or sent to labor camp for ten years were attributed to each region, amounting to a total of 76,000 "1st category elements" (death penalty) and 193,000 "2nd category elements" (ten years internment). However, regional Party and NKVD officials kept asking Moscow for more and more "supplements," to the extent that the "initial objectives" were multiplied by two for "2nd category individuals to repress" and by five for "1st category individuals to repress" during the sixteen months of the operation (instead of the initially planned four months). From August 1937 to November 1938, in total 767,000 people were sentenced under "operation 00447" alone, among which 387,000 were shot (Junge & Binner, 2003; Werth, 2002, p. 118-140).


Chronological Index:Mass Crimes under Stalin (1930-1953) (http://www.massviolence.org/Mass-crimes-under-Stalin-1930-1953?artpage=2)

http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/ai141_folder/141_photos/141_245a_gulag_map_vertical.jpg

«Liquidation of kulaks as a social group» through mass deportations of farmers (1930-1932)****

Forced collectivization of rural areas, decided at the November 1929 Central Committee of the Communist Party Plenum, led to the «liquidation of the kulaks as a social group,» a process also known as «Dekulakization.» The collectivization campaign supported a double objective: firstly, to «extract» (term used in confidential instructions) all elements prone to actively oppose forced collectivization and secondly, to «colonize» vast inhospitable regions of Siberia, the Great North, the Ural and Kazakhstan. The first objective followed the Bolshevik belief, which had been clearly stated ever since they had taken power, that the peasantry, abounding with class antagonisms, concealed «capitalist elements» (kulaks) and was thus irrecoverably hostile to the regime. The second objective was in accordance with the 1st Five Year Plan (launched in 1929) emphasizing development of unpopulated but resource rich regions with penal or deported labor. «Dekulakization» mainly consisted in expropriation followed by deportation of millions of farmers.

1930; January 30: Communist Party Politburo Resolution "on measures to be taken for the liquidation of kulak ownership in complete collectivization regions." This Resolution determines "Dekulakization quotas" in "1st" and "2nd" categories for each region or republic. An initial estimate of 60,000 "1st category kulaks" defined as "activists, engaged in counter-revolutionary activities," were to be arrested and sent to labor camps after "a brief appearance before the troika" (political police extraordinary jurisdiction). The "most harmful and tenacious activists" were to be sentenced to death whereas "2nd category kulaks" defined as "exploiters, but less actively engaged in counter-revolutionary activities" and estimated at 129,000 to 154,000 families, were to be deported as families to "distant" regions of the country, following simple administrative procedures. Deprived of their civic rights, deported, administratively considered as "specially displaced," they were assigned to residence in "special villages" run by the OGPU (NKVD as of 1934).

1930; Beginning of February - end of September: Mass arrests of "1st category Kulaks"
During this period, 284,000 persons were arrested as "1st category kulaks," five times the original estimate. This was in part due to unexpected opposition to collectivization on behalf of farmers as well as non-farmers. Only 44% of those arrested were farmers; others were members of the clergy, tradesmen, former Czarist civil servants, former landowners, teachers or other representatives of the "rural intelligentsia," who had been close to the Socialist-Revolutionary party in the past (Danilov & Berelowitch, eds, 2003, vol III/1). These contingents were sent to Gulag labor camps. The OGPU troika sentenced approximately 20,000 persons to death in 1930 (GARF 9401/1/4157/201).

1930; Beginning of February - end of May: First wave of "2nd category kulaks" deportations.
In a matter of four months, 560,000 persons (115,000 families) were arrested and expropriated from the richest agricultural regions (where resistance to forced collectivization was strongest) - Ukraine, Kuban, Lower and Middle Volga, Black Soil Central Region - and deported to the North (province of Arkhangelsk), the Ural and Western Siberia. In order to manage these deportations, military logistics mobilized 280 railway convoys and deployed thousands of special unit OGPU personnel (Danilov & Berelowitch, eds, 2003, vol III/1). During the first wave of deportation there was little coordination between militarized OGPU procedures and settlement procedures managed by overwhelmed local authorities. This first wave often amounted to an unprecedented level of "deportation-abandon”: deportees were abandoned in temporary barracks along railroad tracks or in the steppes and taiga. Mortality was extremely high, particularly among children and the elderly. Approximately 15% of deported died in the months following deportation. Amidst this deadly chaos, a large portion of deported (between 15 and 20%) managed to flee (Poliakov, ed, 2000, vol 1, p. 278 sq; OGPU regional administrative documents in Danilov & Berelowitch, eds, 2003, vol III/1).

1930; End of September - October: Second wave of "2nd category kulaks" deportations
During the agitated summer of 1930 - 8 million farmer families left the kolkhozes after the publication in early March of Stalin’s famous article condemning "the vertigo of success" and blaming local authorities for "abuses" that occurred during collectivization - large scale "Dekulakization" was interrupted at the end of May. "Dekulakization" specifically resumed end of September 1930, after the harvest. Some 16,500 families (about 60,000 persons) were deported from regions adjacent to Poland on the border of Belarus and Western Ukraine, strategic border regions where major peasant uprisings had taken place in the spring (Telegram from Messing to Balitskii and Rappoport on September 22, 1930, in Danilov & Berelowitch, eds, 2003, vol III/1). Deported were sent to Kazakhstan and the Ural.

1931; May-September: Third wave of "2nd category kulaks" deportations
Taking advantage of the favorable context created by the particularly successful 1930 harvest, the Politburo and the OGPU directorate decided to launch a new wave of deportations in the beginning of 1931. The 1930 procurement campaign allowed the State to recover over 21 million tons of cereal (twice the amount recovered before forced collectivization in 1927-1928), several million peasant families having been forced to join kolkhozes over the last months of 1930. On February 20, 1931, the Politburo adopted an ambitious new deportation plan: starting in the spring of 1931, between 200,000 and 300,000 families were to be deported mainly to Southern Kazakhstan (Politburo Resolution of February 20, 1931, in Danilov, Manning & Viola, eds, 2003: vol III, 90).
On March 11, 1931, the Politburo created a special commission directed by A. Andreev, vice-president of the Council of People’s Commissars. This new commission was in charge of supervising and coordinating the entire deportation process by organizing "rational and efficient management of specially displaced persons in order to avoid the recurrence of tremendous waste and disarray in the use of labor force as noted in previous deportation procedures." On May 15, 1931, the Andreev Commission transferred the entire economic, administrative and organizational management of the "special population" to the OGPU. In this "third wave" of "Dekulakization," a total of 1,244,000 persons (265,000 families) were deported, mainly to the Ural, Western Siberia, the Northern Region and Kazakhstan. As in 1930, human loss was extremely high. The first general census of the "specially displaced" population on January 1, 1932 recorded only 1,317,000 individuals when 1,804,000 had been deported in 1930-1931, indicating a loss of nearly half a million individuals over a two year period. This loss was evenly shared between flight and death (Danilov & Berelowitch, eds, 2003: vol. III/1, 771; Poliakov, ed, 2000: 279-280)

Deportation of Koreans in the Soviet Union, originally conceived in 1926, initiated in 1930, and carried through in 1937, was the first mass transfer of an entire nationality based on their ethnicity to be committed by the Soviet Union.[1] Almost the entire Soviet population of ethnic Koreans (171,781 persons) were forcefully moved from the Russian Far East to unpopulated areas of Kazakhstan in October 1937.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union

montage
28-08-2011, 04:55 PM
So yes, you talk about the jewish bolsheviks, the red murder horde of the banksters.

Good we agree on that.

You might probably want to read this very thread before starting ground hog day all over again?

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060014427&postcount=176

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.
For your information Yezhov have faced a trial for exaggerated repressions in 1938. And was shot. As for your other posts I don't get what u try to say. Instead of analizing this period with the numbers, documental links and so on I see only the word ''jewish'' in your posts. This is really prominent historical analize sure.

tinyint
28-08-2011, 04:58 PM
For your information Yezhov have faced a trial for exaggerated repressions in 1938. And was shot. As for your other posts I don't get what u try to say. Instead of analizing this period with the numbers, documental links and so on I see only the word ''jewish'' in your posts. This is really prominent historical analize sure.

Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.



Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.



We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.



Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.



In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.



Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.



All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened
to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.



And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."



Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.



Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.



Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.



In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.



The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.



Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html


Enough said, drushba, tovarishtsh montage.

montage
28-08-2011, 05:00 PM
As for the collectivization which u try to put in the ''GULAG'' researching. I want to say that this is another issue, I will write about it a bit later when I have more free time, and the correspondent documents will be also provided.

montage
28-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Enough said, drushba, tovarishtsh montage.
Man could u please explain me how your ''articles'' debunk the real scale numbers of repressions proved by the archives? You see repeating 34564563465 the word ''Jews'' may be an arguement only in a kindergarden.

Now let's check for instance the quote from your article:

Total ethnic deportations of "punished peoples" during the "Great
Patriotic War"
During the "Great Patriotic War," over two million Soviet citizens belonging to ethnic minorities accused
of either offering a breeding ground for potential agents of the Nazi invader (Soviet citizens of German
origin), or of having "collaborated with the occupant" (Chechens, Ingush, Kalmyks, Balkars, Karachays,
Crimean Tatars), were deported and assigned to reside as "special deportees" in various inhospitable
regions of the country. Compared to previous deportations, some specific properties of the 1941-1944
deportations are noteworthy, in particular, "the ethno-historic excision" (Francine Hirsch) of entire
nationalities that were collectively declared as "enemies of the Soviet regime." Every single member of a
"punished" ethnic group was subjected to various discriminations, ranging from deportation to forced labor;
all administrative structures were abolished in "punished" regions and autonomous republics; in short, once
a "punished" nationality was thus excluded from the "great family of Soviet socialist nationalities," it
simply ceased to exist. A Supreme Soviet Praesidium Decree of February 1948 specified that the "punished
peoples" were deported "for ever

''Over two millions'' hahah

Ok here are the documents with the number of deported during the Great Patriotic War, there are columns of the regions where they were sent and the nationalities. According to these documents, total amount of deported was Germans - 727.823, Crimean Tatars - 117.052, Kalmyks - 53.323, Balkarts - 19.907, Chechens -191.479, Ingushs - 48.198, Karachaevtsy - 37.976. So, total deporated Soviet minorities was 467.935. If we summarize them with Germans (unfortunately I dunno whether there are POWs among them or not) then it will be 1.195.758, even this number is lower than your ''true article''.

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/090.jpg

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/091.jpg

http://www.rusarchives.ru/pik/events/xx/092.jpg

I can translate the whole table and post it here if you interested (though as far as I understand you are not interested in the reality).

You have screwed again, all your articles are exaggerated wihout any normal sources. And you stubbornly continue to believe in it xD

In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

Sure it was ''unique''. Here is a little comparison:

http://i034.radikal.ru/1108/7c/9a62b4951986.png

But tinyint will tell now the great truth, that all repressions in these countries were made by jews :D

As for Stalin's intentions, yes of course Nail Ferguson personally has been aquainted with Stalin and knew everything about his intentions, he also have known about the Russian history too I see xD And as I see Niall Ferguson has never heard of Jacobin Club since he says something about unique cruelty in the Russian revolution. If you still want to believe pseudo-historians who never refer to any sources, go on, I'm not going to pursuade you, living in the bubble is also fun =) Cos there is only one freedom in our live, when you free of everything that builds your intelligence. This freedom is called "I don’t know". Cheers mate. Freundschaft.

eternal_spirit
14-01-2012, 01:16 PM
No Escape For Gulag's
Former Prisoners
By Julius Strauss
The Telegraph - UK
1-3-4


More Than 50 Years After They Were Deported By Stalin, Hundreds Of Freed Inmates Remain Trapped In The Frozen North

VORKUTA -- When Lidya Wittman was 20 years old she was loaded into a railway goods wagon in central Russia and shipped to a gulag in the Arctic.

It was 1943, the Soviet Union was locked in a fight to the death with Hitler's army, and her crime was to be an ethnic German.

Vorkuta was the last of Stalin's infamous gulags and its name still resonates with menace for older Russians.

Women such as Mrs Wittman were treated like slaves, laying railway lines and toiling without wages in mines and factories. The camp closed in 1962, but decades later thousands of former inmates are still marooned in the decrepit northern settlement.

To get to where she lives from the nearest shop or bus stop in Vorkuta, Mrs Wittman, now 80, must hobble for more than half an hour down a frozen, rutted road. The temperature is minus 10C and a biting wind whips up the snow. "I've been here for 60 years," she said. "I'd leave tomorrow if I could."

After their release, most of the women tried to return to their homes in Ukraine, the Baltic States and central Russia. But the harsh Soviet registration system meant that as former "enemies of the state" they were barred from migrating.

Their only option was to stay and find work, sometimes in the very mines and factories they had been slaving in before their release.

When communism fell, the restrictions were gradually lifted. But by then hyperinflation had wiped out the former inmates' life savings, making an expensive move south all but impossible.

Today there are 40,000 pensioners in Vorkuta. Memorial, a Russian charity that compiles statistics on the Stalinist era, estimates that as many as four out of five are trapped former gulag inmates, or their descendants.

Even in the context of the times, the suffering at the Vorkuta camps was extreme. In the winter, temperatures on the tundra can drop to minus 50C.

Inmates were provided with ill-fitting, poor quality clothes and forced to work 12 or 14 hours a day on a starvation ration. During the 1940s and 1950s a million prisoners passed through the Vorkuta gulags, according to Memorial.

At least 100,000, perhaps many more, died. They were buried in the rock-hard permafrost or simply left by the roadside to be covered by snow.

"For 15 years I shovelled coal into the furnaces," said Mrs Wittman, who still speaks faultless German, but poor Russian.

"At night we used to sleep on hard wooden shelves. So many people died of hunger and cold."

When she was released, like thousands of others she was barred from leaving Vorkuta. Eventually she got a job as a cleaner in a mine.

Later she married another former gulag inmate, also an ethnic German, and they lived together until he died 17 years ago. Today she lives with her son. "This is what Stalin did to me," she said. "I know I can't undo the past, but I'd move to the south if only I had the money."

Yaroslav Volagodsky, 73, a Ukrainian, is another former gulag inmate trapped in Vorkuta. He was charged with "anti-Soviet activities" as a young man and given a 10-year sentence.

"You can't imagine what it was like," he said, tears running down his face. "We had no proper winter clothes, our boots were full of holes and to eat we had crushed, salted fish and a small, frozen potato a day. All my teeth fell out because of lack of vitamins.

"They made us work 14 hours a day in the mines and many men simply died. At night we slept with our clothes on, on a mattress stuffed with wood chips."

Mine 29, where Mr Volagodsky was interned, was notorious for its brutality. When in the summer of 1953 a wave of strikes swept the Soviet gulags, the inmates of Mine 29 joined in.

Four days later, on Aug 1, hundreds of troops surrounded the camp and opened fire, killing at least 53, and injuring hundreds.

Mr Volagodsky was hit in the leg and the ear, but survived. Afterwards he was forced to build coffins and dig graves for his dead colleagues.

Today there is little left of Mine 29. Only some broken brickwork around the shaft entrance marks where it once stood.

A memorial has been put up nearby by relatives of Lithuanians who died there. But the camp itself is unmarked, a mass of broken wooden beams not far from an old railway line.

When, in 1957, Mr Volagodsky was finally released he was refused permission to return home. Later he was told that he could return, but his wife, also a Ukrainian former gulag inmate, could not, so he remained.

"For 50 years this place has been like a coffin for me," he said. "I have no money to go and the local authorities tell me I don't qualify for help."

Yevgenia Khaidarova of Memorial said: "These people would all leave tomorrow if they could. But they haven't the means.

"For years Vorkuta was a political gulag. Today it has become an economic gulag."

http://www.rense.com/general47/noescapeforgulag.htm

bjornyvan
14-01-2012, 04:54 PM
If you're interested in Soviet you need to watch this one:

Juri Lina - In the Shadow of Hermes, pt. 1 - YouTube

rorschach
14-01-2012, 10:55 PM
mental :D
Boney M. - Rasputin - YouTube

eternal_spirit
20-01-2012, 10:26 AM
If you're interested in Soviet you need to watch this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4__jeW7D-o

There's a number of good vids knocking about.

eternal_spirit
23-01-2012, 10:22 PM
Nazis safely deported most Jews from Germany
with all their assets, and a 150,000 SS Waffen Jews fought for Germany
(proving some Jews were against Communism)
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-do...wo%20Flags.htm

Under Two Flags

One of the best books I've read on the topic.

Lenin was a Jew. Stalin was possibly a Jew. Karl Marx (author of the Communist Manifesto) was a Jew. Leon Trotsky (real name - Bronstein) the head of the Red Army was a Jew, as were close to 80%.

lightgiver
23-01-2012, 10:27 PM
Nazis safely deported most Jews from Germany
with all their assets, and a 150,000 SS Waffen Jews fought for Germany
(proving some Jews were against Communism)
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-do...wo%20Flags.htm

Under Two Flags

One of the best books I've read on the topic.

Lenin was a Jew. Stalin was possibly a Jew. Karl Marx (author of the Communist Manifesto) was a Jew. Leon Trotsky (real name - Bronstein) the head of the Red Army was a Jew, as were close to 80%.

so that makes the slaughter of millions of people OK then :rolleyes:

eternal_spirit
23-01-2012, 10:35 PM
so that makes the slaughter of millions of people OK then :rolleyes:
Some Jews were anti Communist some Germans were pro Communist and vice versa.
Have a read of the book Under Two Flags written by a German Jew who migrated to America before the war. HENCE THE BOOK TITLE.

lightgiver
23-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Some Jews were anti Communist some Germans were pro Communist and vice versa.
Have a read of the book Under Two Flags written by a German Jew who migrated to America before the war. HENCE THE BOOK TITLE.

So what if some jews were anti communist or vice versa...a lot of non jews were also anti communist and vice versa...what are you alluding to.

eternal_spirit
23-01-2012, 10:48 PM
So what if some jews were anti communist or vice versa...a lot of non jews were also anti communist and vice versa...what are you alluding to.
It's not as black and white as some make it out to be, obviously same as some Muslims, Christians for example took both sides - Loyalties divided be it country or religion, or political ideology.

lightgiver
23-01-2012, 10:52 PM
It's not as black and white as some make it out to be, obviously same as some Muslims, Christians for example took both sides - Loyalties divided be it country or religion, or political ideology.

Good is good..Evil is Evil.

eternal_spirit
23-01-2012, 10:53 PM
Hitler knew about the Jewish Communists/spys/subversives/ including in government and rivaling political parties, the exclusively Jewish Freemasonic lodges were in on it together plotting and trying to bring down Germany from within.

Chekoslvakai had a puppet Govt installed, post Versaille - a number of politicians including the PM were Jewish Americans! Shipped in from the US.

The ethnic Germans pre war in Chekoslvakai were often treated badly and discriminated against (mostly in the Sudetan lands). Same as in Poland.

So it was no delusional witch hunt by Nazis against Communists but a very real fear. Yet its been blown out of all proportion and claimed the Nazis just wanted to kill all Jews which is utter nonsense).

You think the Germans would allow 150,000 Jews in the Waffen SS if they didn't trust them, that amount of men could have staged a coupe within Germany..

lightgiver
23-01-2012, 11:17 PM
You think the Germans would allow 150,000 Jews in the Waffen SS if they didn't trust them, that amount of men could have staged a coupe within Germany..

They allowed British soldiers in the SS as well...

eternal_spirit
24-01-2012, 11:04 AM
Nazis were the vast majority of the German people and got into power due to events following world war1 and the attempted take over of Germany by mostly kosher Communists.

Note the dates in bold pre war


WWII era anti-German hate speech.
"The German revolution is the achievement of the Jews; the Liberal Democratic parties have a great number of Jews as their leaders, and the Jews play a predominant role in the high government offices." (The Jewish Tribune, July 5, 1920)
(IN OTHER WORDS KOSHER COMMUNISTS TRYING TO TAKE OVER GERMANY PRE WAR)
"Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later..." (The Jewish Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June, 1934)

"Judea declares War on Germany." (Daily Express, March 24, 1934)

"Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what is possible. Israel has been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend Israel! Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And the world will defend us." (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book Epitres aux Juifs, 1938)

"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937)

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." (The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939)

"Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there during the 30-year War." (Das Morgenthau-Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Dairy, p. 11).

"Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our moral enemy. Have no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill every German -- wipe them out!" (Llya Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111).

"Kill! Kill! cried Ehrenberg, 'In the german race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these Germanic women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! as you storm onwards, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army!" - Ilya Ehrenberg


http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/sho...an-hate-speech.

rorschach
26-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Nazis were the vast majority of the German people and got into power due to events following world war1 and the attempted take over of Germany by mostly kosher Communists.

Note the dates in bold pre war


WWII era anti-German hate speech.
"The German revolution is the achievement of the Jews; the Liberal Democratic parties have a great number of Jews as their leaders, and the Jews play a predominant role in the high government offices." (The Jewish Tribune, July 5, 1920)
(IN OTHER WORDS KOSHER COMMUNISTS TRYING TO TAKE OVER GERMANY PRE WAR)
"Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later..." (The Jewish Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June, 1934)

"Judea declares War on Germany." (Daily Express, March 24, 1934)

"Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what is possible. Israel has been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend Israel! Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And the world will defend us." (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book Epitres aux Juifs, 1938)

"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937)

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." (The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939)

"Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there during the 30-year War." (Das Morgenthau-Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Dairy, p. 11).

"Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our moral enemy. Have no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill every German -- wipe them out!" (Llya Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111).

"Kill! Kill! cried Ehrenberg, 'In the german race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these Germanic women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! as you storm onwards, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army!" - Ilya Ehrenberg


http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/sho...an-hate-speech.

"kosher communists " theres no such thing eternal your use of the word kosher is clearly inappropriate , please stop using it in this manner .
:)

bjornyvan
26-01-2012, 11:20 PM
Kosher = everything that's OK with the Chosen Ones.

The Chosen definitely have no problem with communist death camps. Best buddies. In fact - they ran these camps.

eternal_spirit
27-01-2012, 10:20 PM
"The opening of the secret Soviet archives - and also of the archives of some of the formerly communist East European states - as well as open access to hitherto withheld socioeconomic statistics reveal that in fact communist totalitarianism was more criminal, more brutal, and socially more destructive than alleged by even its most severe critics. It was a system not only of mass-murder - on a scale without precedent in human history - but of the deliberate demoralization of society and of the reckless devastation of the physical environment. In brief, both the body and the soul of society were its victims."

Z. Brzezinski, Out of Control

Wonder how much information has come to light since.

lightgiver
27-01-2012, 10:27 PM
everything that's OK with the Chosen Ones.



Adolph and the SS.

eternal_spirit
01-02-2012, 10:31 PM
If you're interested in Soviet you need to watch this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4__jeW7D-o

Quoted due to vid not showing up in your post (Gremlin software glitch)

eternal_spirit
01-02-2012, 11:03 PM
Jewish pre-eminence in the new Russian regime was throughout the communist system. As Zvi Gitelman notes:

“The idea that the Bolshevik regime was a Jewish one gained popularity because of the relatively large numbers of Jews who in 1917 suddenly rushed into governmental posts from which they had been barred under the tsars. So striking was the prominence of Jews in high places that when it was proposed that a Jewish ticket be put forth in the elections to the Constituent Assembly, Maxim Vinaver commented, ‘Why do Jews need a separate ticket? Whichever party wins, we will still be the winners.’” [GITELMAN, Z., 1972, p. 114]
In the struggle for power in Russia, notes Nathaniel Weyl, “the prominence of Jews in the leadership of the Bolshevik Party was no greater than their prominence in the leadership of other, less totalitarian parties.” Prominent Jews in rival socialist factions included Julius Martov (Tsederbaum), Raphael Abramovitch, and I. N. Steinberg. Boris Savinkov, also Jewish, was the “legendary head of the Terrorist Brigade of the Socialist Revolutionary Party.” Aaron Baron and Lev Chorny were well-known Anarchists. [WEYL, 1968, p. 199-200] Building to the Russian revolution era, prominent Jewish revolutionaries also included Grigory Abramovich Perets and Nikolay Utin. One of the founders (in 1876) of the “Land and Liberty” revolutionary party was Mark Natanson. “Another Jew,” notes Leon Schapiro, “Aaron Zundelevich, played an important part on its executive committee. There were Jewish propagandists, Jewish organisers, Jewish terrorists ... It is impossible to doubt the importance of the Jewish contribution to the less spectacular business of organisation and staff-work. It was the Jews, with their long experience of exploiting conditions on Russia’s western frontier which adjoined the Pale for smuggling and the like, who organised the illegal transport of literature, planned escapes and illegal crossings, and generally kept the wheels of the whole organisation running.” [SCHAPIRO, L., 1961, p. 152] One of the Land and Liberty party’s later branches, the “Black Repartition” group, “soon became the cradle of the Marxist movement. Jewish revolutionaries participated in all stages and in all aspects of this movement.” [SCHAPIRO, L., 1961, p. 149-151]

“The abundance of Jewish names in the higher and middle levels of power (in the [Bolshevik] Party and state apparat, in the military, ministry, etc.) is indisputable,” says apologist Jewish author Arkady Vaksberg, “… For anti-Semites now, this is an odious and outrageous fact; from the point of view of normal people not blinded by chauvinist hatred, it is meaningless.” [VAKSBERG, p. 22] “Among the second-string leaders of the Soviet,” observed Nathaniel Weyl, “were Gregory Sokolnikov (Brilliant), Solomon Lozovsky, who would head the Red International of Labor Unions, and Moses Uritsky, chief of the Petrograd Cheka and number two man in the Soviet secret police."[WEYL, 1968, p. 198]

In 1923, notes Isaac Deutscher, “a triumvirate, composed of Stalin, Zinoviev, and Kamenev, formed itself within the Politbureau ... Between them, the three men virtually controlled the whole [Communist] party and, through it, the Government ... Zinoviev was, in addition, the President of the Communist International.” [DEUTSCHER, p. 255] Amidst intrigue and power struggles within the communist movement, however, by 1927 Kamenev and Zinoviev “at last threw in their lot with Trotsky.” [DEUTSCHER, p. 307] Trotsky, an enemy of Stalin, was “the founder and builder of the Red Army,” [DEUTSCHER, p. 192] and once the “number two man next to Lenin. “ [NEW ENCYC BRITTANICA, p. 945] He was also Jewish, born Lev Davidovich Bronstein. Trotsky, Zinoviev, and Kamenev, notes Arkady Vaksberg, “alone formed the ‘leadership nucleus’ and had every reason to expect to inherit the mantle of leadership from Lenin. The man closest to the ‘troika’ (Trotsky-Zinoviev-Kamenev) after [Yakov] Sverdlov’s death was Grigori Sokolnikov.” [VAKSBERG, p. 19] All five of these men poised to rule Russia were Jewish. Kamenev once told Trotsky (his brother-in-law) [WALSH, p. 440] that “It will be enough for you and Zinoviev to appear together on the platform in order to reconquer the whole party.” [DEUTSCHER, p. 308] It didn’t work out that way. Stalin proved to be a more ruthless and/or shrewd leader in the struggle for power.

Nonetheless, Jews were very well represented in the Soviet system under Stalin. As Isaac Deutscher notes, “Jews were quite prominent in [Stalin’s] entourage, though far less so than they had been in Lenin’s. [Max] Litvinov stood for over a decade at the head of the Soviet diplomatic service; Kagonovich was to the end Stalin’s factotum; Mekhlis was the chief political Commissar of the army; and Zaslavsky and Ehrenburg were the most popular of Stalin’s sycophants. Yet he was not averse from playing on anti-Jewish emotions when this suited his convenience. During the struggle of against the inner-party oppositions his agents made the most of the circumstance that Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, and Radek were of Jewish origin.” [DEUTSCHER, p. 605]

“Lev Mekhlis,” notes Louis Rapoport, “would become Stalin’s secretary and one of the most despised men in Soviet history ... Immediately after the Revolution, many Jews were euphoric over their high representation in the new government. Lenin’s first Politburo was dominated by men of Jewish origins ... Under Lenin, Jews became involved in all aspects of the Revolution, including its dirtiest work. Despite the Communists’ vow to eradicate anti-Semitism, it spread rapidly after the Revolution—partly because of the prominence of so many Jews in the Soviet administration, as well as in the traumatic, inhuman Sovietization drives that followed.” [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 30]

The Soviet Union’s leading communist newspaper was _Pravda_. Its “leading staff members,” Yakov Khavinson and David Zaslavsky, were Jewish, as were the Soviet Unions ambassadors to the U.S., Maxim Litvinov and Ivan Maisky, who were recalled in 1943. [VAKSBERG, p. 260, 139]

In 1994, Russian-born (and raised) Jewish author Arkady Vaksberg wrote a book entitled _Stalin Against the Jews_. Its fundamental thesis is that Stalin was a fanatical anti-Semite. (Louis Rapoport’s _Stalin’s War Against the Jews_ reflects the same theme). The fact that many Jews (including millions of others) died under his direction is beyond question. And Stalin’s actions in later life reflect his suspicions of the loyalty of many in the Jewish community. But the fact that Stalin was nonetheless surrounded by Jews everywhere in positions of high power (Lazar Kaganovich, Pyatnitsky, Fillip Goloschekin “and many others who were made part of the ruling circle") [VAKSBERG, p. 20] is described by Vaksberg as “camouflage” for the Soviet leader’s hatred of Jews. [VAKSBERG, p. 27] Yet Vaksberg’s own evidence to portray the Russian Jewish community as solely victims consistently deflates the premise of Stalin’s enduring anti-Semitism. Vaksberg assails Stalin as a singularly rabid, irrational Jew-hater even while stating that “the people who surrounded Stalin and who had rendered him service in the twenties and thirties were mostly Jews” [VAKSBERG, p. 35] and conceding that Jews especially close to Stalin like Emelyan Yaroslavky (Mines Gubelman), Moisey Gubelman, Lev Mekhlis ("Stalin’s right hand man"), [VAKSBERG, p. 23] Lazar Kaganovich and Isaac Mintz all survived Stalin’s declared “anti-Zionist” purges.

“Why did Stalin, as an anti-Semite,” wonders Vaksberg, “have two Jewish secretaries—Lev Mekhlis and Grigori Kanner?” [VAKSBERG, p. 27] Why too, we might add in turning Vaksberg’s facts to different theses, whenever Stalin went on a vacation, did Lazar Kaganovich, a Jew, take over running the government? [VAKSBERG, p. 51] And why, we might add, if Stalin was so all-encompassingly hateful of Jews, did he entrust his life to a Jewish bodyguard, Matyas Rakoszy? [VAKSBERG, p. 40] (Another Jewish Stalin bodyguard, son of a rabbi, and “protege of Nikita Khruschev,” was Alexander Contract, who started out in the NKVD—later the KGB. Contract even saved the life of future Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin). [O’DWYER, T., 7-6-98] And if Stalin was singularly focused in his alleged hatred of Jews, why did his “personal corps of physicians” include “Drs. Weisbrod, Moshenberg, and Lev Gigorievich Levin?” [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 37] Even prominent non-Jewish Communist Party officials (and close associates of Stalin’s social circle), President Mikhail Kalinin, Bukharin, Molotov, Voroshilov, Andreyev, Poskrebyshev, and Rykov, all had Jewish wives. Stalin’s own daughter Svetlana Allilueva had an affair with Jewish screenwriter Alexei Kapler; she later married Grigory Morozov (Moroz), also Jewish. [VAKSBERG, p. 138; RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 208] The fact that Stalin reportedly did not approve of these men is routinely explained by Jewish scholars as anti-Semitism. Stalin’s sister-in-law (eventually imprisoned) by his first wife was also Jewish. So was one of his daughters-in-law. And there is controversial testimony that Stalin even had a Jewish mistress, Rosa Kaganovich. [RAPAPORT, L., p. 46, 241] [ROTHMAN/LICHTER, 1982, p. 94]

Over a hundred Jewish generals also served in Stalin’s Soviet army, including the chief of the Soviet Air Force at the start of World War II, General Jacob Smushkevich. [GOLDBERG, M. H., 1976, p. 78]

“It seemed,” says Louis Rapoport, “there were Jews wherever [Stalin] looked. His loyal tin soldier, Marshal Voroshilov, was devoted to his Jewish wife, Catherine. Marshal Bulganin was also happily married to a Jew, Nadezhda. Politburo member Andrei Andreyev, who fell from grace in 1950, was married to Dora Khazan, and Kaganovich the Jew was married to Maria, also one of the tribe. Malenkov, who was suspected of being a bit of a philo-Semite, had a Jewish son-in-law, as, it was said, did Khrushchev. The up-and-coming Leonid Brezhnev was said to have a Jewish wife.” [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 208]

Stalin’s alleged fanatical anti-Semitism had further curious twists. “Another non-Jew not only helped create Israel,” notes M. Hersch Goldberg, “but saved it. Incredible as it may seem, that man was Joseph Stalin. The tale of Stalin’s role in helping create and then insure the early survival of Israel has been little told; and on those occasions when it has been mentioned, there has been no satisfactory explanation for it.” This includes the fact that in 1947 the Soviet Union publicly supported the creation of a Jewish state, and was the second country (after the U.S.) to recognize its establishment. Stalin also initially supported Israel in its war of independence against the Arabs and supported Israel with shipments of arms through Czecheslovakia. Even the Soviet delegate to the United Nations, also President of the Security Council, was of Jewish heritage—Jacob Malik. [GOLDBERG, M. H., 1976, p. 220-224] It would seem that if Stalin was truly overwhelmed with feelings of irrational anti-Semitism, Jewish power within his own government had overwhelmed him.

From the start of his argument about Stalin’s single-minded hatred of Jews, Arkady Vaksberg marks the early struggle for power between Stalin and Trotsky-Zinoviev-Kamenev-Sikolnikov: “All four men whom Stalin perceived as his rivals in the struggle for power were Jewish. Each of them, especially Trotsky, naturally had a large number of allies in higher eschelons of power who could influence the distribution of posts and positions and the political clout and popularity of candidates. There was a certain ethnic ‘imbalance’ here too.” [VAKSBERG, p. 19]

As normal in Jewish scholarship (framing Jews as victims even as they act as oppressors), Vaksberg even makes the preposterous claim that the reason Jewish commanders ran 11 of the 12 major Gulag Archipelago concentration camps (including the director of them all, Matvei Berman, who also headed the slave labor project that built the Belomar-Baltic Canal) was that Stalin wanted to make Jews look bad, and foment anti-Semitism. “It could not,” he insists, “have been sheer coincidence.” [VAKSBERG, p. 98] Maybe not. But other possible reasons are too profoundly troubling for Vaksberg to consider.

Jews were also everywhere prominent in Soviet secret police organizations. “From the beginning,” writes Benjamin Ginsberg, “the Soviet state relied upon military, police, and security services to sustain itself, and Jews were active in these agencies. ... Jews ... staff[ed] and direct[ed] the coercive instruments upon which the state relied to control its citizens.” [GINSBERG, B., 1993, p. 30] Genrikh Yagoda, for instance, was the Soviet Chief of the Secret Police in the 1930s. A pharmacist, he specialized “in preparing poisons for his agents to use in liquidating Stalin’s opponents.” [GINSBERG, B., 1993, p. 31] “Yagoda was the man Stalin trusted most within the repressive aparat without which no totalitarian regime can exist,” says Arkady Vaksberg, “The Soviet version of dictatorship and Stalin personally would not have survived without the ‘faithful watchdogs of the revolution’ and their ‘punishing swords.’” [VAKSBERG, p. 36] Yagoda’s brother-in-law, Leopold Averebakh was the “chief supervisor of Party purity in Soviet literature.” [VAKSBERG, p. 35]

“Working side by side with Yagoda,” notes Arkady Vaksberg about a kindred Jewish government deputy, “was another professional chekist (a euphemism for professional executioner), Meer Trilissen ... The many actions undertaken by Trilissen’s agents included blowing up the cathedral in Sofia with the Bulgarian tsar and his government inside.” [VAKSBERG, p. 38]

eternal_spirit
01-02-2012, 11:39 PM
Following on from previous post


Other Jews, Matvei Berman and Naftali Frenkel of the secret police, were instrumental in the creation of the slave labor system in which 200,000 workers died during one project alone, the White Sea-Baltic Canal.



[GINSBERG, B., 1993, p. 31] “It was Frenkel,” notes Louis Rapoport, “who refined Berman’s use of prisoners as slave labors ... Most of the chief overseers of the Canal were Jews. Solzhenitsyn described them as ‘six hired murderers each of whom accounted for thirty thousand lives: Firin - Berman - Frenkel - Kogan - Rappoport - Zhuk ... Thousands of Jewish revolutionaries helped to spearhead the Terror machine with a messianic fervor. One of them, Matvei Berman, had helped to institutionalize slave labor as early as 1922.” [RAPAPORT, L., 1990, p. 30, 44]

Likewise, Yakov Agranov, Karl Danker “and other representatives of the Jewish proletariat ... distinguished themselves with a talent for execution.” [VAKSBERG, p. 39] Other prominent Jewish officials in the Soviet government included K.V.

Pauler, Chief Operations Officer of the secret police in the 1930’s, Lev Inzhir (Chief Accountant for the Gulag: Inzhir “the all-powerful clerk, was kept busy with figures on transit points, rail depots and harbors, human and other freight transfers, length of terms, morality rates."), “top” Chekist Aron Soltz, [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 44, 45] M. I. Gay who headed a secret police organization that conducted mass arrests and executions during “The Great Terror” of the 1930s, and A.A. Slutsky and Boris Berman who were in charge of terrorist and espionage activities abroad in the 1930s.

Noting that “many of the prosecution witnesses and agent provocateurs against” Jewish enemies of the communist state were also Jewish, Louis Rapoport adds that

“Some of the main instruments of the Terror [against everyone] were also of Jewish origin: M. I. Gay, who headed a special secret police department; A. A. Slutsky and his deputies Boris Berman and Shpiegelglas, who were in charge of terror and espionage abroad; and NKVD operations chief Pauker. None of these mass executioners survived [later purges against them] [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, p. 49-50]

The man who headed the firing squad that executed the Russian royal family, Yakov Yurovsky, was also Jewish, as was the Bolshevik official who reported the deaths to Lenin, Yakov Sverdlov. [KRICHEVSKY, Behind, 1997, p. 8] Or, as Arkady Vaksberg puts it: “There is no getting around the fact that the first violins in the orchestra of death of the tsar and his family were four Jews—Yakov Yurovsky, Shaia Goloshchekin, Lev Sosnovsky, and Pinkus Vainer (Pert Voikov). The concert master and conducter was Yakov Sverdlov.” [VAKSBERG, p. 37]

As Zvi Gitelman notes about the Cheka, the early Soviet terrorist police organization:

“The high visibility of Jews in the Bolshevik regime was dramatized by the large numbers of Jews in the Cheka ... From the Jewish point of view it was no doubt the lure of immediate physical power which attracted many Jewish youths ... Whatever the reasons, Jews were heavily represented in the secret police ... Since the Cheka was the most hated and feared organ of the Bolshevik government, anti-Jewish feelings increased in direct proportion to Cheka terror.” [GITELMAN, 1972, p. 117]

Leon Schapiro remarks that “it is difficult to suggest a satisfactory reason for the prevalence of Jews in the Cheka ... Anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of Cheka stood a very good chance of finding himself confronted with, and very possibly shot by, a Jewish investigator.” [SCHAPIRO, L., 1961, p. 165]

“I doubt that there was another poet (or novelist or playwright or artist),” says Arkady Vaksberg, “who was surrounded by as many Chekists as [Vladimir] Mayakovsky. [Mayakowsky was the leading poet of the Russian revolution era.] And sadly, they were almost all Jewish.” These included at least three Jewish generals in the secret terrorist organization: Yakov Agranov, Moisey Gorb, and Lev Elbert. [VAKSBERG, p. 45]

Another Jewish author, Richard Pipes, adds that

“The worst bestialities were committed by some of the provincial Chekas—which operated at a distance from the eyes of the central organs and had no fear of being reported on by foreign diplomats or journalists. There exists a detailed description of the operations of the Kiev Cheka in 1919 by one of its staff, I. Belerosov, a former law student and tsarist officer, which he gave to general Denikin’s investigators.
According to Belerosov, at first (fall and winter of 1918-1919) the Kiev Cheka went on a ‘continuous spree’ of looting, extortion, and rape. Three-quarters of the staff were Jews, many of them riffraff incapable of any other work, cut off from the Jewish community although careful to spare fellow Jews.” [PIPES, R., 1990, p. 823-824]

In later years, another Jew, Zakhar Ilyich Volovich, “was involved in many of the dirty circles of the NKVD [precursor to the KGB], crimes even today enveloped in dark secrecy.” [VAKSBERG, p. 45-46] Among the many Jewish executives in the Main Directorate of State Security of the NKVD were Mosiey Boguslavsky, Yakov Veinshtok, Zakhlar Volovich, Mark Gai, Matvei Gerzon, Moisey Gorb, Ilya Grach, Yakov Deich, Grigory Rapoport, Abram Ratner, Abram Slutsky, David Sokolinsky, Solomon Stoibelman, Meer Trilesser, Semyon Firin, Vladimir Tsesarsky, Leonid Chertok, Isak Shapiro, Grigory Yakubovsky, “and many other NKVD workers of the same level and same origins.” [VAKSBERG, p. 98] The non-Jewish head of the NKVD, Lavrenti Beria, had “many Jews in his close entourage ... [who were in] major positions in the NKVD.” These included Generals Arkady Gertsovsky, Veniamin Gulst, Ilya Ilyushin-Edleman, Matvei Potashnik, Solomon Milshtein, Lev Novobratsky, Leonid Raikhman, and Naum Eitigen. Heads of NKVD “investigative groups” included Colonels Boris Rodos, Lev Shvartsman, Isaia Babich, Iosif Babich, Iosif Lorkish, and Mark Spekter. [VAKSBERG, p. 102]

Among these, Colonel Lev Shvartsman stands out for Arkady Vaksberg as “one of the most vicious KGB executioners ... He personally tortured Mikhail Koltsov, diplomats, major scientists, and cultural figures.” [VAKSBERG, p. 223] Likewise, another Jew, Colonel Boris Rodos was a “sadist [who] ... at the Academy of Internal Affairs taught ... the methods of working over prisoners in their cells.” [VAKSBERG, p. 211] “As a Jew,” notes Yevgenia Albats in his book about the history of the KGB, “I’m interested in another question entirely: Why were there so many Jews among the NKVD-MGB investigators—including many of the most terrible? It’s a painful question for me, but I cannot evade it.” [ALBATS, Y., 1994, p. 147]
“Such Bolshevik Jewish luminaries as Lev Kamenov, Grigori Zinoviev, and Yakov Sverdlov,” says Ukrainian-American author Myron Kuropas, “helped Lenin come to power; and it was Jews like Maxim Litvinov, Lazar Kaganovich, and hundreds of lesser lights who were in the forefront of Stalin’s rise to power. It was they who later helped Stalin engineer Ukraine’s genocidal famine and the brutal Soviet takeover of Western Ukraine. When the USSR began to decline, writes [a former KGB officer married to a Jewish officer in the same force], ‘the flower of this educated leadership and their children emigrated to Israel and the West.’ I can’t help but wonder how many of these criminals now reside in the United States.” [KUROPAS, M., 8-14-94, p. 77]

Some estimates suggest that between a fourth and a fifth of the rural Ukrainian population perished by enforced starvation. [MOYNAHAN, p. 120] One of the dedicated Jewish communists was Lev Kopolev. “We were realizing historical necessity,” he wrote,

“We were performing our revolutionary duty. We were obtaining grain for the socialist fatherland ... I saw women and children with distended bellies, turning blue, with vacant, lifeless eyes. And corpses—corpses in ragged sheepskin coats and cheap felt boots; corpses in peasant huts, in the melting snow of old Vologda, under the bridges of Kharkov ... I saw all this and did not got out of my mind or commit suicide ... I believed [in the new Soviet order] because I wanted to believe.” [MOYNAHAN, p. 119]

In 1987, Stuart Kahan, an American relative of Russian communist strongman Lazar Kaganovich (originally named Moiseyevich; he is described by Kahan as the Soviet “Apparatus of Terror"), wrote a book about him. The author interviewed the elderly Kaganovich in Yiddish via his father, and concluded that his relative

“was, to put it mildly, a devil. That relative exuded evil, an evil that put millions of people to death ... [KAHAN, S., p. 5] ... Although the Church was left intact, its lands were seized [by the communist movement]. Even prior religious teaching was forbidden in the schools. Of course, word came down that it was the Jews who did this. After all, wasn’t the revolution prepared and fashioned by Jews? Both of Karl Marx’s grandfathers were rabbis, and Lenin’s grandfather was also Jewish. And wasn’t Yarkov Sverdlov, the first chief of state, a Jew, as was Trotsky himself? ... That Trotsky, unquestionably the most outstanding man among the Bolsheviks, was a Jew did not seem an insuperable obstacle in a party in which the percentage of Jews, 52 percent, was rather high compared to the percentage of Jews (1.8 percent) in the total population.” [KAHAN, p. 80-81]

Kaganovich “eventually held more key posts in the power structure than anyone except Stalin ... He demolished the huge Church of Christ the Savior and replaced it with the Palace of the Soviets. As commissar of heavy industry during the war years, he chose his brother Mikhail as his deputy and controlled everything from the vast fuel and steel industries to chemicals and building materials.” [RAPOPORT, L., 1990, -. 43]

Jewish author Arkaday Vaksberg even calls yet another Jewish Soviet leader, Rozalia Zemlyachka (Zalkind), “a sadist and monster who would play a major role in the slaughter in the Crimea after the destruction of the last strongholds of the White Movement [anti-communists] there.” [VAKSBERG, p. 23] Another Jew, Bela Hun, “spread bloody terror” with Semlyachka. [VAKSBERG, p. 41] Another government (and Jewish) terrorist, “the lawyer Moisey Uritsky ... was the scourge of Petrograd in 1918, terrorizing the citizenry as the local Cheka. He was killed by another Jew, Leonid Kanegisser.” [VAKSBERG, p. 23] Another Jewish Soviet leader, Filipp Goloschchekin, “was one of the main organizers of the murder of the tsar’s family in 1918 ... [He also] displayed boundless cruelty in the genocide of the Kazakhs when he became Party leader of Kazakhstan.” [VAKSBERG, p. 17]

As even Winston Churchill once wrote about Jewish influence in the communist world:

“This [communist] movement among Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt [Adam Weishaupt, the Bavarian founder in 1776 of one of the most famous conspiratorial groups, the Illuminati, in history], to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemberg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development and envious malevolence, an impossible equality has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the nineteenth century.” [PIPES, D., 1997, p. 139]
http://classic-web.archive.org/web/2...ew.org/wvr.htm

rorschach
02-02-2012, 01:07 AM
Kosher = everything that's OK with the Chosen Ones.

The Chosen definitely have no problem with communist death camps. Best buddies. In fact - they ran these camps.

yeah youve mentioned the communist greedy banker jews before ,
sounded ridiculous then too .