What attracts Masons to the DI forum?

[boeing727]

Hello All

I was wondering what it is about the David Icke site.forum that attracts freemasons to look/join.

Allthough you have every right to be here I cannot work out what it is that makes you take an interest.

[agneau]

Hello All

I was wondering what it is about the David Icke site.forum that attracts freemasons to look/join.

Allthough you have every right to be here I cannot work out what it is that makes you take an interest.

Some join becasue they have an interest in other areas that the Icke site covers, eg 911 conspiracy theories, Paul is dead and we're all lizards - that sort of thing...

Others join becasue they genuinely want to try and put across the truth about what freemasonry is and counteract the sad bigotted nonsense that flies around .

A very few others join becasue they want to be a big fish in a small pond, and they have no alternative.

Me? I'm here because it's lunchtime and the zoo is shut.....

[moon monkey]

I think they come here for the attention really. They can't come here to tell the truth about Freemasonry because most of them don't know the truth or even understand where it comes from and it's purpose.

[eternal_spirit]

There's very few who still post. Maybe 3 that's all and they no longer post regularly. Used to be loads well maybe 20 or so, possibly more.

One reason was about 3 years ago, some Icke forumers went and joined a Freemasons forum and things got a bit argumentative over there.

Some of the Masons joined this forum here and the debates went on for years.

There's alot of disinfo about Masons in conspiracy circles and they were trying to put the disinfo right and tell the truth about Freemasonry.

Imagine if you where part of a group and you where being scapegoated wrongly for all the world's problems (oh I am white and English so guess I am) wouldn't you want to tell your side of the story and dispell the myths and disinfo?

So I now know how the Masons feel.

[agneau]

I think they come here for the attention really. They can't come here to tell the truth about Freemasonry because most of them don't know the truth or even understand where it comes from and it's purpose.

But hey! Luckily we have you and your marvellous font of all nonsen..knowledge.

And we are grateful for the illumination, dear boy. Really...it makes my lunch just reading your wise words and magic facts conjured out of nowhere.

More please....

[eternal_spirit]

I used to argue with them tooth and nail and had some heated and some good debates - and I was convinced Masons were the one's behind much of the world's evil. I no longer believe this.

The Masons convinced me of some things but I done some independent research and concluded that there's an awful lot of nonsense said about Masons.

Off to the Lodge;)

[scorpio]

I enjoy debating Freemasonry with Freemasons and non Freemasons alike. There are many people who read this website and have an open mind. There are websites that are run by Freemasons and it would be easy to only read such websites and never to read any person who is critical of Freemasonry.
Also, this website covers a lot more subjects that Freemasonry.
regards
Gerard PM 1316 SC and MM 1209 SC etc

[eternal_spirit]

BTW I am not a Mason, for those wondering.

[ecca]

I think they come here for the attention really. They can't come here to tell the truth about Freemasonry because most of them don't know the truth or even understand where it comes from and it's purpose.

well, like albert pike said, the lower masons are there to act as an outer portico and are no different than the profane, he wasn't just saying this for fun. there's a different lie at every level, it's not much of a surprise that they've bought into the propaganda given to them, that's the idea, and it accomplishes the goal nicely, it's very well crafted, instilling in the lower masons a sense of purpose and a high sense of decency.

Here's an example of the kind of thing your average mason is being told:

"Fidelity to obligation, and Constancy and Perseverance under difficulties and discouragement. Masonry is engaged in her crusade, against ignorance, intolerance, fanaticism, superstition, uncharitableness, and error."

"A Freemason, therefore, should be a man of honor and of conscience, preferring his duty to everything beside, even to his life; independent in his opinions, and of good morals, submissive to the laws, devoted to humanity, to his country, to his family; kind and indulgent to his brethren, friend of all virtuous men, and ready to assist his fellows by all means in his power."

So, you can understand then that when some outsider comes along and tries to explain to them that masonry isn't so wonderful a thing after all, they can't believe it, and will in ignorance defend masonry to their last breath. It's completely understandable, just as it's completely understandable why an american soldier would defend the propaganda he's been fed to his last breath, truly believing that he's fighting for freedom, that's what it's designed to do.

[thelonious]

well, like albert pike said, the lower masons are there to act as an outer portico and are no different than the profane, he wasn't just saying this for fun. there's a different lie at every level, it's not much of a surprise that they've bought into the propaganda given to them, that's the idea, and it accomplishes the goal nicely, it's very well crafted, instilling in the lower masons a sense of purpose and a high sense of decency.

That is not what Pike said, and is a pretty good example about the disinformation spread by anti-Masons.

Pike believed that the Masons were the Knights Templar in disguise, and that since the Blue Degrees don't mention the Templars, then false interpretations of the symbols were given there.

We now know that Pike was wrong on both counts, and that his ideas concerning this are way outdated. However, that doesn't stop the anti-Masons from referencing him completely out of context to back up their own mistakes.

[ecca]

That is not what Pike said, and is a pretty good example about the disinformation spread by anti-Masons.

Pike believed that the Masons were the Knights Templar in disguise, and that since the Blue Degrees don't mention the Templars, then false interpretations of the symbols were given there.

We now know that Pike was wrong on both counts, and that his ideas concerning this are way outdated. However, that doesn't stop the anti-Masons from referencing him completely out of context to back up their own mistakes.

yeah, yeah, international brotherhoods/societies with secrets could never be used for anything but good, and if they were to be used as part of an agenda, I'm sure they'd let you, and everyone else down at the local middle-class lodge, in on it.

[thelonious]

yeah, yeah, international brotherhoods/societies with secrets could never be used for anything but good, and if they were to be used as part of an agenda, I'm sure they'd let you, and everyone else down at the local middle-class lodge, in on it.

I see you didn't address any of my points. Of course, I didn't expect you to be able to. The anti-Masons can use only fallacious arguments and ad hominems. Typical.

[luciferhorus]

Pike believed that the Masons were the Knights Templar in disguise, and that since the Blue Degrees don't mention the Templars, ....
We now know that Pike was wrong on both counts, .

Oh please, Thelonious. The Masons are ultimately a Christian Capitalist religious / economic cult who believe that they are carrying on the legacy of the Capitalist, state terrorist / narco-terrorist, anti-communist Christ (Jesus) and the Knight's Templars. Any Mason or Capitalist Christian who refutes that is either ignorant or bearing false witness.

Christ to the Masonic cultists is the ultimate Capitalist devil.

Lux

http://www.pgllincs.org/images/Provincial%20Bodyguard.jpg
http://templarschat.com/img/Knights%2520Templar%2520Freemasonry%2520button.jpg
http://www.kent-templars.info/pictures/prov-prior.gif
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg
http://www.knightstemplar.org/0487/200.jpg
http://blog.templarhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/cregalia1.jpg
http://www.clansinclairsc.org/smotj12.jpg
http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/TheFreemasons/images/prevs/0935236.jpg
http://members.westnet.com.au/fredshade/philosophy/q9.jpg

[krakhead]

It started because some idiot from here started frequenting masonic forums and flaming them, but he let them know where else he posted, so they came over to return the favour.

Although most who are still here conduct themselves well and give a much needed balance to anti-mason arguments/misinfo (IMO)

[ecca]

I see you didn't address any of my points. Of course, I didn't expect you to be able to. The anti-Masons can use only fallacious arguments and ad hominems. Typical.

You've bought into the propaganda given to you, I'm not going to fight with you about it, just as I wouldn't fight with the members of local church about the truth behind the Vatican.

It's like arguing with a parking enforcement officer or any other street level bureaucrat about the true situation in Washington DC, he knows what he's been told, that's it, and he's meant to believe it. The books are available to anyone who wants to read them, don't take my word for it.

I'm not saying that you and the members of your local masonic lodge are behind some grand conspiracy. You are not meant to know, you are meant to believe exactly what you do believe, that's the whole idea, and there is no use in arguing with you about it, just like there is no use in arguing with a Muslim about the veracity of the Koran.

[zero1]

Although most who are still here conduct themselves well and give a much needed balance to anti-mason arguments/misinfo (IMO)

Assuming you can tell the pearls from the pigswill...

[moon monkey]

The Masons simply twist history to create their own highly inaccurate Masonic history.

They are in total denial about what they are because most of them simply don't know. The reason for this is that they believe the tripe they are fed in their "lodges" and that they are too pompous and lazy to do their own research. The Templars were evil murderers and thieves and the Masons at the top levels aspire to being the same.

[thelonious]

You've bought into the propaganda given to you

Actually, you're the one who's bought into the propaganda given you. I addressed your points, and explained why they were incorrect. You were unable to respond to the actual points made, so you then went into abstract vagueries without actually saying anything.

I'm not saying that you and the members of your local masonic lodge are behind some grand conspiracy. You are not meant to know, you are meant to believe exactly what you do believe, that's the whole idea, and there is no use in arguing with you about it, just like there is no use in arguing with a Muslim about the veracity of the Koran.

Again, in order to make such claims, you need to be able to back it up with some sort of evidence. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

In the real world, Freemasonry is a society of free thinkers. That's why the Masons were condemned by the Church in the first place. As such, each Mason has his own independent ideas about things, and does not necessarily agree with another Mason. Therefore, your comment that Masons are "meant to believe excatly what they believe" has no real meaning.

[twilighterheart]

They came here looking for alternative chicks to fuck. They believe lonely and not so pretty women are easier to bag then others.:D

[twilighterheart]

http://www.knightstemplar.org/0487/200.jpg
http://blog.templarhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/cregalia1.jpg
http://www.clansinclairsc.org/smotj12.jpg
http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/TheFreemasons/images/prevs/0935236.jpg
http://members.westnet.com.au/fredshade/philosophy/q9.jpg

Look at those dweebs. :rolleyes::p

http://www.kent-templars.info/pictures/prov-prior.gif
"This is my rod, now can I stick it in you? Please, it's less gay when I do it to a chick instead of one beloved brothers."
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg
"White hoods are so last year, but white capes are still cool and hip."

[asahi]

If you think about it, most Masons have got far enough in 'the system' to be fairly brainwashed by it all. Add to this the time spent around that which is demonic (albeit at lower levels) must obsfucate any ability to percieve truth. Has any Mason ever been swayed by against thier practice by someone on this site? I imagine the sorts who post here are not important enough in the hierachy that it would matter anyway.

[sac123abc]

:)

[asahi]

We come here to get an idea of how the nuts think

Hmm, doesn't that prove my and everyone elses point then? You are labelling quite a large cluster of people, many of whom are clearly intelligent and have a lot of good facts 'nuts'. Doesn't take many steps/degrees before your sociopathy extends to all fellow humans. Masons quite possibly lack the insight or minerals to take thier fellow human beings hands in solidarity. Still all those esoteric symbols, wierd entities and general influx of propoganda about the benevolence of Masonary must be hard to see through it is sure. Maybe you come here to find truth without realising it.

[1776]

I used to argue with them tooth and nail and had some heated and some good debates - and I was convinced Masons were the one's behind much of the world's evil. I no longer believe this.

The Masons convinced me of some things but I done some independent research and concluded that there's an awful lot of nonsense said about Masons.

Off to the Lodge;)

Oh really? Boy oh boy... a Mason apologetic? Come on...

"...upon further independent research... I no longer believe this.."

Upon my research I say you're either misinformed of lying. They are behind much of the world's "evil" - to say otherwise would be a lie, itself.

Peace&Love
God bless

[twilighterheart]

http://www.pgllincs.org/images/Provincial%20Bodyguard.jpg


Look at grown men still playing with swords always make me moist.:p:D:rolleyes:

[asahi]

To be honest, it is fun making fun of Masonary, but I wonder at what point Masons really need to buckle up and wake up. Worshipping lucifer is not really the way to go, even if that becomes more blatant along the way.

[twilighterheart]

To be honest, it is fun making fun of Masonary, but I wonder at what point Masons really need to buckle up and wake up. Worshipping lucifer is not really the way to go, even if that becomes more blatant along the way.

At least update their stupid outdated rituals ropes at least, fags.:D

[alphabet]

Hello All

I was wondering what it is about the David Icke site.forum that attracts freemasons to look/join.

Allthough you have every right to be here I cannot work out what it is that makes you take an interest.

My guess is they are into weird, wacky, and wonderful stuff on this website.

[luciferhorus]

It started because some idiot from here started frequenting masonic forums and flaming them, but he let them know where else he posted, so they came over to return the favour.

Although most who are still here conduct themselves well and give a much needed balance to anti-mason arguments/misinfo (IMO)

With regards to "anti-mason arguments/misinfo."

I think this falls into two basic categories:

1: They are shape shifting reptiles, they devour human flesh, they sacrifice children, etc., etc.

Frankly I find no evidence of this, and to accuse them of this simply distracts from the real "problem of evil" with regards to Masonry.

2: That their god is different or has a different name to the Christian god.

Masonry, ultimately at its highest levels is a Christian organisation. For example one of the prominent anti-Mason sites is Watchy's "Freemasonry Watch;" however Watchy is a Roman Catholic, and the Catholic god is also an anti-Communist, state terrorist collaborating Capitalist devil. Capitalist Christians who attack the Masons are just part of a competing cult midset; it is a "my cult is better than yours" perspective.

Further the "name" of the Masonic god is irrelevant, as I have argued in other essays here; it is a question of definition.

For example there might be a person called "Steve" and "Steve" in some other language might mean "the Devil," and persons of that culture might believe that anyone called "Steve" is automatically evil. A name is a name. For example George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush is a Methodist Christian, and the name of his god is "Jesus," however just because Bush is a state terrorist, narco-terrorist and clearly a genodical mass murder, it does not follow that the historical "Jesus" was like that.

Whatever "name" Masons give to their pet deity is similarly irrelevant; there is nothing evil about a name. Similarly many modern Satanists are just people who despise the hypocrisy of Christianity; they part of the resitance against the evil of Christianity; their "Satanic" description does not define them as evil.

3: Masons are essentially a Capitalist cult of Capitalists.

Contemporary Masons generally are evangelical state terrorist, narco-terrorist, usuryist collaborators and Capitalist Devils. It is David Icke's general position that they are a Capitalist "Cabal" or "gang," and their presence in the City of London (the financial district) where there are more Masonic lodges than any other square mile on earth, and where some loan sharking institutions have their own lodges make this clear. In this respect I find them guilty as charged.

The penalty for Masonic cult collaboration is, of course, death and eternal confinement to the tortures and enslavement of hell (Capitalist Heaven), however this is only because of point three above; points one and two are irrelevant and form the basis of anti-Masonic disinformation.

However I should point out that since anti-Masonry is a major part of modern Islam, since the Muslims are themselves Capitalists, point three above probably would not be helpful in inciting Islamic anti-Masonry. Muslims seem to commonly believe that Masons worship the "Devil" and as I have argued at length on the forum, the Masonic god (and also the Christian god) can be defined as a Capitalist Devil anyway, so this approach is probably more useful with the Islamic community.

Lux

[moon monkey]

Masons spend so much time at their lodges they neglect other important areas of their lives.

It is widely known that masonic wives really miss the physical aspect of a normal relationship. A friend of mine is currently helping the wife of a local magistrate with her physical needs as he is always at the lodge. She is very grateful indeed and has experienced many new exciting things with him.
She has told him that many other masonic wives find young men for sex at the gym and online as their pathetic husbands are more interested in brotherly matters.

[humason]

Masons spend so much time at their lodges they neglect other important areas of their lives.

It is widely known that masonic wives really miss the physical aspect of a normal relationship. A friend of mine is currently helping the wife of a local magistrate with her physical needs as he is always at the lodge. She is very grateful indeed and has experienced many new exciting things with him.
She has told him that many other masonic wives find young men for sex at the gym and online as their pathetic husbands are more interested in brotherly matters.

Yes, the one evening a month a mason who is a member only of a "blue" lodge would spend is indeed a lot of time.
Add to that perhaps four evening per year if you add another order, and, oh my, you're really screwed. Add another on top of that, and there go another four evenings. So, we're looking at, what 16-20 evenings a year for a reasonably active mason? :D

I call bullshit on this one :)

(Note: YMMV - if you're mad enough to be in every single order possible, have a lodge that meets twice a month and constantly visit, then you deserve for the wife to run out on you. But then again, if you don't remember the part where it goes "family, god, everything else, Masonry", you're an idiot.)

[moon monkey]

Yes, the one evening a month a mason who is a member only of a "blue" lodge would spend is indeed a lot of time.
Add to that perhaps four evening per year if you add another order, and, oh my, you're really screwed. Add another on top of that, and there go another four evenings. So, we're looking at, what 16-20 evenings a year for a reasonably active mason? :D

I call bullshit on this one :)

(Note: YMMV - if you're mad enough to be in every single order possible, have a lodge that meets twice a month and constantly visit, then you deserve for the wife to run out on you. But then again, if you don't remember the part where it goes "family, god, everything else, Masonry", you're an idiot.)

I quite agree with you. I know quite a few masons who are attending lodges 3 times a week. Yes they are involved in the side orders, charity, administration and visiting other lodges etc. These men are always out and pay their wives no attention at all. This is why they look for outside "attention".

[lycan]

I quite agree with you. I know quite a few masons who are attending lodges 3 times a week. Yes they are involved in the side orders, charity, administration and visiting other lodges etc. These men are always out and pay their wives no attention at all. This is why they look for outside "attention".

WHAT A HEAP OF SHIT YOU SPIN. A blue lodge only meets once a month, it is up to the mason if if wishs to make it to the prep meeting so yes 2 meetings a month if he wishs.

In my state/county Freemasony comes 3rd in the lines of things.
1. Family.
2. Work.
3. Freemasony
I just think the US females are to soft over there. The Aussie girls here will stand up and tell a male/mason/husband what is needed.

[moon monkey]

WHAT A HEAP OF SHIT YOU SPIN. A blue lodge only meets once a month, it is up to the mason if if wishs to make it to the prep meeting so yes 2 meetings a month if he wishs.

In my state/county Freemasony comes 3rd in the lines of things.
1. Family.
2. Work.
3. Freemasony
I just think the US females are to soft over there. The Aussie girls here will stand up and tell a male/mason/husband what is needed.

I am in the UK. Read my post. The chaps I know are involved in Blue, chapter and various other bits and bobs and are more advanced in your lucifarian shite organization than you'll ever get. This is why they put the time in.

Do you see?

[luciferhorus]

Masons spend so much time at their lodges they neglect other important areas of their lives.

It is widely known that masonic wives really miss the physical aspect of a normal relationship. A friend of mine is currently helping the wife of a local magistrate with her physical needs as he is always at the lodge. She is very grateful indeed and has experienced many new exciting things with him.
She has told him that many other masonic wives find young men for sex at the gym and online as their pathetic husbands are more interested in brotherly matters.


Certainly there is something Freudian and homoerotically suggestive about a group of men who gather together for rather silly pseudo-pagan rituals and who forbid women in their lodges and refer to their god as "he," however I think generally that Masons are not a cult of "gay men." I refer to their rituals as pseudo-Pagan since Pagan, Neowiccan and Neopagan rituals are necessarily either "sexual" or symbolically sexual, whereas since the Masons don't appear to be a cult of gay men, their rituals seem to me to be just predominantly an excuse for the buying and selling of rather pompous fake degrees and military titles. There are a group of gay pagans in London that I am aware of and their rites certainly "are" sexual in nature, whereas a common complaint I have heard of regarding the Masonic rites is that they can be incredibly boring.

Essentially I think that the reason why Masons forbid females is simply because they are Paternalists (male supremacists). I think the "Masonic wife" is essentially the private property (i.e., a slave) of a Paternalist male, and this is probably the issue, rather than the constant attendance of Masonic meetings, which tend to be infrequent. Women (and men also) of course are not naturally suited to slavery and monogamy, however such sexually repressed behaviour has become a custom in Christianity, organised religion and in Capitalist society in general, which is just an advanced form of economic slavery.

Lux

[thelonious]

Essentially I think that the reason why Masons forbid females is simply because they are Paternalists (male supremacists).

The Osirian Priesthood was male-only. This is because, quite obviously, the initiate was inducted into the phallic mysteries. The Mysteries of Isis were preserved for females. Neither was "superior" to the other; it was only a matter of common sense that females not be initiated into male mysteries, and males not be initiated into female mysteries.

The O.T.O. has attempted to skirt the issue (so to speak) by telling their initiates, in their third degree, that "females have phalluses". I'm assuming that Aleister Crowley had taken enough biology classes there at Trinity College to know that this isn't literally true, but Crowley also made some quips about how women don't have souls, and how they need to spiritually become men, so who knows what the hell he was thinking.

[lightgiver]

The Osirian Priesthood was male-only. This is because, quite obviously, the initiate was inducted into the phallic mysteries. The Mysteries of Isis were preserved for females. Neither was "superior" to the other; it was only a matter of common sense that females not be initiated into male mysteries, and males not be initiated into female mysteries.

The O.T.O. has attempted to skirt the issue (so to speak) by telling their initiates, in their third degree, that "females have phalluses". I'm assuming that Aleister Crowley had taken enough biology classes there at Trinity College to know that this isn't literally true, but Crowley also made some quips about how women don't have souls, and how they need to spiritually become men, so who knows what the hell he was thinking.


Simon Peter said to them: Let Mariham go out from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Look, I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Simon Peter said to them, "Mary should leave us, for females are not worthy of life." Jesus said, "See, I am going to attract her to make her male so that she too might become a living spirit that resembles you males. For every female (element) that makes itself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

Simon Peter says to them: "Let Mary go out from our midst, for women are not worthy of life!" Jesus says: "See, I will draw her so as to make her male so that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who has become male will enter the Kingdom of heaven."


Funk and Hoover write: "In v. 3 Jesus is not suggesting a sex-change operation, but is using 'male' and 'female' metaphorically to refer ot the higher and lower aspects of human nature. Mary is thus to undergo a spiritual transformation from her earthly, material, passionate nature (which the evangelist equates with the female) to a heavenly, spiritual, intellectual nature (which the evangelist equates with the male). This transformation may possibly have involved ritual acts or ascetic practices." (The Five Gospels, p. 532)

Robert M. Grant and David Noel Freedman write: "Indeed, Jesus says of Mary (presumably Mary Magdalene, as in most Gnostic revelations) that he will make her a male so that she may become a 'living spirit' like the male apostles: 'for every woman who makes herself a man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven' (114/112). According to the Naassenes, spiritual beings will come to 'the house of God'; there they will cast off their garments and all of them will become bridegrooms, having been made male by the virginal Spirit. [Hippolytus Ref. V. 8. 44.] This teaching is close to that of Thomas." (Gnosticism & Early Christianity, p. 188)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Chakrasamvara_Vajravarahi.jpg/494px-Chakrasamvara_Vajravarahi.jpg

a leading Feminist theologian identifies the nondual import of yab-yum iconography where His ever-so-skillful 'method' (upaya) really enjoys Her ever-so-spacious 'wisdom' (prajna), a wisdom where wisdom-in-reciprocity enjoys method; where His-Her enjoining is coincident in 'great bliss' (mahasukha):

...a vital point must be made, especially given that the yab-yum image is always said to be an image in which the partners are in sexual union...though it may seem paradoxical and difficult to understand, this image, nevertheless, is not literally about sex, as in sexual intercourse. It is about nonduality, which is visually represented by the yab-yum icon

Nondualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

http://www.kunar.com/Gospel%20of%20Thomas/Collected%20Commentary%20on%20the%20Gospel%20of%20 Thomas%20114.htm

[asahi]

I would always to be tempted to look at things from the pshcho/energetic/spiritual level. What REALLY attracts Masons to Masonry (as much as this site). Does it promote a feeling of elitism? Do the rituals give structure, does it provide a forum for networking, moving and shaking? Do people use it for more self serving reasons 'brother in the high court, can you anul my parking ticket' (I am sure only higher members get these benefits). Is the spirituallity addictive? No one said the demonic can't be charming, and fuzzy feel good on the surface. The way I see it, unless you are totally affected socially or plain lazy you dont need Masonry for anything. What people need to get a grasp on is Masonary is (in part) about the invokation of dark entities which block out the light. I have no problem with people being successful, but everything suggests to me Freemasonary is the dishonerable mans path in life.

[scorpio]

The Freemasons who post on this board are free thinking people who take the opportunity to give their opinons of our society. To the people who have closed minds regarding our society we will never change your opinions.

To the people who have an open mind;we will try and give you our opinions of what Freemason s believe in.Then you will need to make your own minds up regarding what we have written.

As a Freemason of over 20 years I have never taken part in any occult ceremony, consulted with demons or The Devil. I have enjoyed the fellowship of people like myself who believe in 'free thinking'.

I have never in my capacity as a Freemason taken part in political or religious activity. Freemasonry is a society that is open to men who profess a belief in God. If any person should then decide to join our ancient and honourable fraternity then in my opinion it was worth while posting on this website.

Gerard the free thinking Freemason who happens to be a millitant Capitalist and Zionist

[thelonious]

Does it promote a feeling of elitism?

I'm not sure how.

Do the rituals give structure, does it provide a forum for networking, moving and shaking?

Not really. A lot of Masons treat the ritual as something done just out of tradition. Personally, I see the ritual as the very soul of Freemasonry, an allegorical drama that teaches philosophical truth.

Do people use it for more self serving reasons 'brother in the high court, can you anul my parking ticket' (I am sure only higher members get these benefits).

I'm a "higher member", and have never gotten out of a parking ticket because of it. Obviously, there are some people who, if they know you personally, would scratch out a minor parking ticket for you. While I'm sure that's happened among Masons at times, I'm equally sure it's happened among people in the same church, among family members, among golf club buddies, etc. Freemasonry itself in this sense is no different than any other way to mett people.


Is the spirituallity addictive?

The "spirituality" of Masonry comes from philosophy. Masons are encouraged to deeply ponder those things. Naturally, only a small percentage actually do. Most Masons have no concept of a Masonic spirituality. You havve to keep in mind, the vast majority of Masons consider Freemasonry a sort of dinner club.

The way I see it, unless you are totally affected socially or plain lazy you dont need Masonry for anything. What people need to get a grasp on is Masonary is (in part) about the invokation of dark entities which block out the light. I have no problem with people being successful, but everything suggests to me Freemasonary is the dishonerable mans path in life.

There are no "dark entities" being invoked in Masonry. From years of my own personal study and research, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of Freemasonry was to establish an organization that could teach various doctrines (most notable, democracy, Kabalah, and Hermetic philosophy) during a time when teaching such things could land one in jail, or even worse.

So while, today, nobody technically needs Freemasonry to learn these disciplines anymore, it is still of interest to the historian, and to those who salute it for preserving the light of truth during the dark ages.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Because they dont want everyone to be aware of how there abusing society for there own intrests.

[asahi]

The Freemasons who post on this board are free thinking people who take the opportunity to give their opinons of our society. To the people who have closed minds regarding our society we will never change your opinions.

You didn't really answer the question of WHY anyone should join the Freemasons. If you believe in 'free thinking' then why not make your own group of comrades and infuse it with your own view of the world? Masonry, as it stands offers a series of lodges, thought structures, symbols, ideas, people to connect with etc. I see no 'independence' or 'free thinking' in this-You do realise at least, that there are many many people above you in the hierachy right? Would you like to dine with a group of friends knowing that many of them are ranked differently, have different levels of 'secret' knowledge, have been through different processes of initiation, some you never see but you know they are 'above' you somehow-this is pure rubbish. I would also assume that if you are a Mason you have gone through some form of initiation yourself, this is occult ceremony is it not? Obviously they dont place Baphomet right in front of you quite yet-that would be silly. If the sole intention is to come here and recruit people to your 'honerable fraternaty' that is fine, but even if Freemasonary wasn't Luciferien in nature (which it is) it is certainly not for anyone who is awake, aware and free thinking.

[piskavac]

Hello All

I was wondering what it is about the David Icke site.forum that attracts freemasons to look/join.

Allthough you have every right to be here I cannot work out what it is that makes you take an interest.

Our greater awareness than in average forums has been attracting them.

And relatively broad education of DIF members. (i don't count myself).

But most of all, our mainly strong negative attitude towards them. People tend to stick to energy sources, even these sources are filled with negative energy.

[purplepebble]

the vast majority of Masons consider Freemasonry a sort of dinner club.



And that is all it is for you masons - unless you are from serious old money and have blue blood running through your veins.

[piskavac]

I think they come here for the attention really. They can't come here to tell the truth about Freemasonry because most of them don't know the truth or even understand where it comes from and it's purpose.

Many folks have been mentioning mason forumers. But, what are their nicknames? I think Radio Illuminati would be one of them.

[marpat]

I quite agree with you. I know quite a few masons who are attending lodges 3 times a week. Yes they are involved in the side orders, charity, administration and visiting other lodges etc. These men are always out and pay their wives no attention at all. This is why they look for outside "attention".

Heaven forbid that they should have their own interests in life, unlike many whose lives are rules by the pub and football.

I know some masons who are out regular but so what, do you deny them their lives? who are you to judge them? if their wives dont like it they can get their own interests. Many masons are happy to do their thrid degree and just turn up once a month after than and join no side orders. Many will miss meetings if it clashes with their family life. If they chose to attend lots of nights then so what? why do you have such an issue with them? there are people who spend more time in this forum than any mason does at a lodge

[scorpio]

You didn't really answer the question of WHY anyone should join the Freemasons. If you believe in 'free thinking' then why not make your own group of comrades and infuse it with your own view of the world? Masonry, as it stands offers a series of lodges, thought structures, symbols, ideas, people to connect with etc. I see no 'independence' or 'free thinking' in this-You do realise at least, that there are many many people above you in the hierachy right? Would you like to dine with a group of friends knowing that many of them are ranked differently, have different levels of 'secret' knowledge, have been through different processes of initiation, some you never see but you know they are 'above' you somehow-this is pure rubbish. I would also assume that if you are a Mason you have gone through some form of initiation yourself, this is occult ceremony is it not? Obviously they dont place Baphomet right in front of you quite yet-that would be silly. If the sole intention is to come here and recruit people to your 'honerable fraternaty' that is fine, but even if Freemasonary wasn't Luciferien in nature (which it is) it is certainly not for anyone who is awake, aware and free thinking.

Freemasonry is a society of men who meet on the level as equals. In my years of being a Freemason I have joined many orders and be in the chair of several of these orders. There is no devil worship period in any order of Freemasonry.

If a person does not want to join Freemasonry that is his right to do so. As a Freemason I joined of my own free will and could leave of my own free will. There is a ceremony that you go through when you become a Freemason and there is nothing sinsiter or evil in that ceremony.
regards
Gerard O'Donnell

[stopthemadness]

Feminism (started by two communist, Jewish women, Gloria Steinem & Betty Friedan) and women's suffrage (the right to vote started in ernest by the Jewish daughter of a Rabbi, Ernestine Rose) were absolutely crucial in destroying western civilisation.

Women tend to be more reactionary/emotional compared to men. This was exploited in the 20th century to immasculate western men and make political elections easier to manipulate. The power/voter base shifted from patriarchal households to feminist-run households. The western male was politically castrated. This came in conjunction with WWII and economically forcing both spouses into the workforce (because of manipulations of the Zionist Federal Reserve). The end result is the perceived mess that humans are in right now. Rest assured it is unfolding exactly to the letter as described in the Protocols.

Since Freemasonry is a smokescreen cover for Talmudic Judaism, it is not surprising they forbid women membership. After all, they want to subvert others, not themselves.

[asahi]

So while, today, nobody technically needs Freemasonry to learn these disciplines anymore, it is still of interest to the historian, and to those who salute it for preserving the light of truth during the dark ages.

I'm not sure I grasp what you are saying. Do you flat out disregard all the evidence on this site as to what Freemasonry is? Thinking Freemasonry is a preserver of esoteric tradition makes little sense, why would you need the most powerful people in the world to do this (You do agree that Freemasonry follows in powerful families/bloodlines right?) Surely even non conspiritoral history tells us those in power have supressed more esoteric/spiritual knowledge. How can the supressor supress itself only to suddenly unsurpress itself. This is the kind of faulty logic which seems to ensnare you. So either Freemasons who come on here are blinded and deafened by something (the demonic), they are suffering major cognitive dissonance or they are stupid. I am almost sure that there is part of every Mason that wants to wake up.

[asahi]

Freemasonry is a society of men who meet on the level as equals. In my years of being a Freemason I have joined many orders and be in the chair of several of these orders. There is no devil worship period in any order of Freemasonry.

If a person does not want to join Freemasonry that is his right to do so. As a Freemason I joined of my own free will and could leave of my own free will. There is a ceremony that you go through when you become a Freemason and there is nothing sinsiter or evil in that ceremony.
regards
Gerard O'Donnell

So the answer to WHY you are Freemason is to meet people who are your equals, and that is it. So what makes Freemasonry different from anywhere else that has good wine and nice speeches? Why not join toastmasters, a local golf club, a debating society etc if you like that. Nope, I am going to have to say that, on some level of your being, you know that Freemasonary represents power. And sadly, in the system of today, that power resonates with a demonic frequency. Even if you disregard all the facts (which I personally would find quite hard) can you not at least sense this energetically to be true?

[scorpio]

I'm not sure I grasp what you are saying. Do you flat out disregard all the evidence on this site as to what Freemasonry is? Thinking Freemasonry is a preserver of esoteric tradition makes little sense, why would you need the most powerful people in the world to do this (You do agree that Freemasonry follows in powerful families/bloodlines right?) Surely even non conspiritoral history tells us those in power have supressed more esoteric/spiritual knowledge. How can the supressor supress itself only to suddenly unsurpress itself. This is the kind of faulty logic which seems to ensnare you. So either Freemasons who come on here are blinded and deafened by something (the demonic), they are suffering major cognitive dissonance or they are stupid. I am almost sure that there is part of every Mason that wants to wake up.

As a Freemason I consider myself to be enlightened and in search of 'more light' aka knowledge. This is a personal journey that each and every Freemason takes.

Freemasonry does not have the political power and influence that you and other people claim that it has. We are men who believe in the brotherhood of man and the worship of the Most High aka God.
regards
Gerard

[purplepebble]

We are men who believe in the brotherhood of man and the worship of the Most High aka God.
regards
Gerard

Why not just go to church then.

[zero1]

As a Freemason I consider myself to be enlightened and in search of 'more light' aka knowledge.

http://pugsly.bechange.com/forum_fodder/caution_the_intellectual_capacity_.jpg

[scorpio]

Why not just go to church then.

How do you know that I do not go to church?????
Freemasonry is a place where men of many religions can meet in peace and enjoy fellowship. What Church offers that??
regards
Gerard

[scorpio]

http://pugsly.bechange.com/forum_fodder/caution_the_intellectual_capacity_.jpg

Very nice sign:D
regards
Gerard:):cool:

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

:confused:Very nice sign:D
regards
Gerard:):cool:

I thought freemasonry was about business contacts,contracts and corruption.
Laced with some nasty threats to keep your mouths shut.
Freats of deaf hardly seem Godly

[thelonious]

I'm not sure I grasp what you are saying. Do you flat out disregard all the evidence on this site as to what Freemasonry is?

There's no "evidence" on this site about Freemasonry! This is the David Icke website! It's all just a bunch of make-believe put together for entertainment! If you want real information on Freemasonry, you need to read academic material on it, not stuff from people who believe the queen of England is a lizard.

Thinking Freemasonry is a preserver of esoteric tradition makes little sense, why would you need the most powerful people in the world to do this (You do agree that Freemasonry follows in powerful families/bloodlines right?)

No, I know for a fact that it doesn't. Most of the powerful people in the world
are not Freemasons, contrary to anti-Masonic propaganda. While some powerful people have been, and are, Freemasons, they are within a small minority, and due to their occupations in the secular world, usually devote little or no time to their Lodge memberships.

Surely even non conspiritoral history tells us those in power have supressed more esoteric/spiritual knowledge.

Exactly. This is why those in power have suppressed Freemasonry, and have instituted anti-Masonic propaganda. It's the scapegoat tactic, and anti-Masons still use it.

How can the supressor supress itself only to suddenly unsurpress itself. This is the kind of faulty logic which seems to ensnare you.

The logic isn't faulty at all, it's a matter of historical fact.

[thelonious]

:confused:

I thought freemasonry was about business contacts,contracts and corruption.
Laced with some nasty threats to keep your mouths shut.
Freats of deaf hardly seem Godly

No, Freemasonry is not about business contacts, and certainly not corruption. There are other organizations that were formed for the sole purpose of business contacts, such as Rotary International. That's where the business people go for networking.

Most Masons are not businessmen. Indeed, the majority of active Masons are retired.

There are no "nasty threats" in Freemasonry, by the way.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

No, Freemasonry is not about business contacts, and certainly not corruption. There are other organizations that were formed for the sole purpose of business contacts, such as Rotary International. That's where the business people go for networking.

Most Masons are not businessmen. Indeed, the majority of active Masons are retired.

There are no "nasty threats" in Freemasonry, by the way.

How come when i worked at the Queens hotel Bournemouth every week before christmas the freemasons all came for the christmas party with there wifes.

They where all buissness types one even said quite pompously dont you know we are the Management and another was telling me about a contract he gained. I think freemasons are really crooked and I have fair bit of personal knowlege about my local town that confirms that.

[thelonious]

How come when i worked at the Queens hotel Bournemouth every week before christmas the freemasons all came for the christmas party with there wifes.

They where all buissness types one even said quite pompously dont you know we are the Management and another was telling me about a contract he gained. I think freemasons are really crooked and I have fair bit of personal knowlege about my local town that confirms that.

You'll forgive me if I have reason to doubt your little anecdote.

[piskavac]

How come when i worked at the Queens hotel Bournemouth every week before christmas the freemasons all came for the christmas party with there wifes.

They where all buissness types one even said quite pompously dont you know we are the Management and another was telling me about a contract he gained. I think freemasons are really crooked and I have fair bit of personal knowlege about my local town that confirms that.

Maybe masons have retired elite who realy shake this movement, but permit managers to feel much more important than they are because true elite within masons need their money to accomplish their project(s) in the world?

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You'll forgive me if I have reason to doubt your little anecdote.

You guys crack me up! I know and you know I am not bullshiting forget the fecade. People are fed with these little societys that put there selfs above everyone else. We know the majority of you are just the boot lickers of the real money.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Most these contracts are goverment anyway tax payers money dont you think this is a bit elitist

[thelonious]

You guys crack me up!

Right back atcha, Slick.

I know and you know I am not bullshiting

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

http://blog.galvintan.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/bullshit.jpg

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Theres no point me having a conversation with a forked tounged freemason. Lets just hope one day society will be free from parasitic secret societys that abuse its hosts.:)

[asahi]

As a Freemason I consider myself to be enlightened and in search of 'more light' aka knowledge. This is a personal journey that each and every Freemason takes.

Great, as a human being I consider myself to be enligtened. Why must you attatch enlightenment to a fraternity or any group? So you agree we are all after 'more light' then?

Freemasonry does not have the political power and influence that you and other people claim that it has. We are men who believe in the brotherhood of man and the worship of the Most High aka God.


Sounds like rhetoric to me, I imagine I don't need to present all the good work and evidence on this site if your basic premise is we are wrong whatever the evidence. If it is going to come down to a duel of locked horns where whoever says 'you are wrong, I am right' with most conviction, then I will say, unflinchingly that you are wrong about this, whether you know it or not is another matter.



There's no "evidence" on this site about Freemasonry! This is the David Icke website! It's all just a bunch of make-believe put together for entertainment! If you want real information on Freemasonry, you need to read academic material on it, not stuff from people who believe the queen of England is a lizard.

I don't know, I think the evedence is pretty good myself. As for looking within Acedemia, no thanks. I like many others here have had a pretty Mason-heavy eductation. Some of us wake up from that old chesnut.



Exactly. This is why those in power have suppressed Freemasonry, and have instituted anti-Masonic propaganda. It's the scapegoat tactic, and anti-Masons still use it.

Well they went to impressive lengths, they must be the real 'supermen' of this world to conjour up the endless details of Masonry's subversive effects-where can I join up this group of incredible minds? The fact that I myself believe fully in the esoteric/hermetic wisdom that Masons practice yet still think the Masons are on the wrong side of the light does not mean anything to you?


The logic isn't faulty at all, it's a matter of historical fact.

Nothing either of you have said goes much beyond rhethoric. You want to be in a group with decent company and the finest Château Rouge, I can suggest many avenues. As I have said ,you must know at some level what Masonry represents and frankly it doesn't bother me. I do not envy Masons, but do pity them somewhat. You show weakness and nothing else, for power is always within each one of us, and never within some silly (luciferian) gentlements club. But I can see you would both be lost without it so who am I to say what you should and shouldn't be?

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Simple fact is were just normal joe public we got no reason to lie. You on the other hand are part of a shadey secret fraternity i know who i would trust if i was reading this.:)

[scorpio]

Simple fact is were just normal joe public we got no reason to lie. You on the other hand are part of a shadey secret fraternity i know who i would trust if i was reading this.:)

Freemasonry is a fraternity of men of different religions, races and economic circumstances. We all share a belief in the brotherhood of man and worship the Most High aka as God. Freemasons are a society that has nothing to hide and is open to men who want to enjoy the company of other men who believe in God.

Freemasons over the Wolrd raise vast sums of moneny for charitable causes and strive to make this World a better place for all people to live in.

regards
Gerard the friendly Freemason:cool:

[marpat]

So the answer to WHY you are Freemason is to meet people who are your equals, and that is it. So what makes Freemasonry different from anywhere else that has good wine and nice speeches? Why not join toastmasters, a local golf club, a debating society etc if you like that. Nope, I am going to have to say that, on some level of your being, you know that Freemasonary represents power. And sadly, in the system of today, that power resonates with a demonic frequency. Even if you disregard all the facts (which I personally would find quite hard) can you not at least sense this energetically to be true?

Yet how many freemasons have any power? people in here think Icke has power, which is why they think him untouchable, so does he have a demon too?

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Yet how many freemasons have any power? people in here think Icke has power, which is why they think him untouchable, so does he have a demon too?

Icke has got balls and we admire him.

[marpat]

Icke has got balls and we admire him.

You might think he has but what has he got to lose? most people dont have any respect for him and his ideas (most of which are stolen from other writers). He is happy to be called a nutter because it makes him a martyr to his fans, who then fill his bank account while admiring the man who pretends to be standing up to the system. I might have some admiration for him myself if I actually saw him do something with all his knoweldge rather than make cash out of it. Perhaps he should stand in front of the palace and publicly declare the queen is a lizard, but I truly doubt he has the grapes for it.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You might think he has but what has he got to lose? most people dont have any respect for him and his ideas (most of which are stolen from other writers). He is happy to be called a nutter because it makes him a martyr to his fans, who then fill his bank account while admiring the man who pretends to be standing up to the system. I might have some admiration for him myself if I actually saw him do something with all his knoweldge rather than make cash out of it. Perhaps he should stand in front of the palace and publicly declare the queen is a lizard, but I truly doubt he has the grapes for it.

David has got a Son for a start. He was on the bbc the other day talking about the snooker so not everyone is into this David Icke bashing. Be honest you wouldnt of had the guts to do what hes done. I bet deep down theres a part of you that admires his courage and drive.

[lcr123]

Oh please, Thelonious. The Masons are ultimately a Christian Capitalist religious / economic cult who believe that they are carrying on the legacy of the Capitalist, state terrorist / narco-terrorist, anti-communist Christ (Jesus) and the Knight's Templars. Any Mason or Capitalist Christian who refutes that is either ignorant or bearing false witness.

Christ to the Masonic cultists is the ultimate Capitalist devil.

Lux

http://www.pgllincs.org/images/Provincial%20Bodyguard.jpg
http://templarschat.com/img/Knights%2520Templar%2520Freemasonry%2520button.jpg
http://www.kent-templars.info/pictures/prov-prior.gif
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg
http://www.knightstemplar.org/0487/200.jpg
http://blog.templarhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/cregalia1.jpg
http://www.clansinclairsc.org/smotj12.jpg
http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/TheFreemasons/images/prevs/0935236.jpg
http://members.westnet.com.au/fredshade/philosophy/q9.jpg

i don't think so, seriously? that is a rhetorical question by the way.

[asahi]

Yet how many freemasons have any power? people in here think Icke has power, which is why they think him untouchable, so does he have a demon too?


Well, you could quote Focault and go into a whole discourse about what power is. Generally speaking, ultimately, the type of power that Freemasons hold relies on keeping the real power (which lies dormant in many people) down, this is what many people are waking up to, Icke just happens to be one of those with the profile, the gab and balls to write and speak about it. Masonic power is really quite cowardly, when you get down to it, but when enough people relize that they are infinitely more powerful than a silly gentlemans club and thier demon inspired version of power, well, who knows then. Maybe you will, tail between legs, be wanting to join the big feast that humanity will throw. Untill then, enjoy your silly version of truth and light.

[marpat]

David has got a Son for a start. He was on the bbc the other day talking about the snooker so not everyone is into this David Icke bashing. Be honest you wouldnt of had the guts to do what hes done. I bet deep down theres a part of you that admires his courage and drive.

I would probably not make ridiculous statements to the public that I could not back up.

What is there to admire? I see a man who takes nearly any alternative theory and conspiracy theory then mould them into a story, which he then seels as an alternative view of the world. Much of his information is based on ignorance of subjects that he writes about, subjects that he has no depth of knoeledgw of. He takes shallow interpretations, or even literal ones when it suits his goal, in order to skew the information to fit his ideas.

So what if he has a son. Even a retard can produce children if they are fertile.

Like I said before, I might respect his courage if I saw him do something other than write books to his convereted fans. So many people in this forum think he knows too much for people to touch him so why does he not make a public stand? what is stopping him standing outside of the queens residence and telling people about her supposed blood drinking? if he was so courageous and untouchable then there would be nothing to fear. I truly doubt that this is the reality of the situation though and that he will just continue to write books until people are bored with him, like Von Daniken

[twilighterheart]

What good is a mason other then needing one to build a stone building? NONE. They need to seriously get over themselves. Stupid outdated stoneworkers trying to be egoistic priests.

[marpat]

Well, you could quote Focault and go into a whole discourse about what power is. Generally speaking, ultimately, the type of power that Freemasons hold relies on keeping the real power (which lies dormant in many people) down, this is what many people are waking up to, Icke just happens to be one of those with the profile, the gab and balls to write and speak about it. Masonic power is really quite cowardly, when you get down to it, but when enough people relize that they are infinitely more powerful than a silly gentlemans club and thier demon inspired version of power, well, who knows then. Maybe you will, tail between legs, be wanting to join the big feast that humanity will throw. Untill then, enjoy your silly version of truth and light.

lol, I think perhaps you have a demon. There is only one source of real inner power and the masonic community fully acknowlegde that. It is people like you who try to reduce their belief in God to some other form of worship. The whole anti-masonic thing has come straight from the pews of silly christians in the US who believe that its an attack on their religion, and they are prepared to use any form of attack, deceipt and malice to attack freemasonry.

Considering many masonic orders require a person to be a christian how does it follow that a follower if jesus can be worshipping a demon? by their fruits shall ye know them!!!!

[marpat]

What good is a mason other then needing one to build a stone building? NONE. They need to seriously get over themselves. Stupid outdated stoneworkers trying to be egoistic priests.

lol, blind person. It is your attitude that is stupid. You lack the intelligence to even get a basic grasp of what they do

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I would probably not make ridiculous statements to the public that I could not back up.

What is there to admire? I see a man who takes nearly any alternative theory and conspiracy theory then mould them into a story, which he then seels as an alternative view of the world. Much of his information is based on ignorance of subjects that he writes about, subjects that he has no depth of knoeledgw of. He takes shallow interpretations, or even literal ones when it suits his goal, in order to skew the information to fit his ideas.

So what if he has a son. Even a retard can produce children if they are fertile.

Like I said before, I might respect his courage if I saw him do something other than write books to his convereted fans. So many people in this forum think he knows too much for people to touch him so why does he not make a public stand? what is stopping him standing outside of the queens residence and telling people about her supposed blood drinking? if he was so courageous and untouchable then there would be nothing to fear. I truly doubt that this is the reality of the situation though and that he will just continue to write books until people are bored with him, like Von Daniken

Seek help you need it. Have you not watched any of Davids videos how much more public can he be? Why have you posted 10 000 messages on this forum? You are clearly a very sad person.

[twilighterheart]

lol, blind person. It is your attitude that is stupid. You lack the intelligence to even get a basic grasp of what they do

What they do? Their name is masons, they use to do some real good back in the day building stone structures. What horrible thing that existence today needs to go in the way of the dinosaurs. It's outdated and out of their minds. Time is passing them by, like all outlived things.

[marpat]

Seek help you need it. Have you not watched any of Davids videos how much more public can he be? Why have you posted 10 000 messages on this forum? You are clearly a very sad person.

lol, I thought I might be:rolleyes:

Perhaps I need that many post to remind people of how ignorant they often are. I know many posters who have lots of posts that consist purely of cut and paste bullshit with no effort at actually leanring anything for themselves, or forming any individual viewpoint, making them worse than the sheep they often condemn.

I actually own a few of Ickes books and I initially found them interesting but once you start digging into things and questioning his research then its less convincing. For instance, my favourite is that in Children of the Matrix he claims an Egyptian wall painting has an alien on it when in fact its a vase. Totally priceless research that and yet people in here refuse to accept the facts :D. I could mention other things but I have already suffered enough abuse for my criticism :D

[marpat]

What they do? Their name is masons, they use to do some real good back in the day building stone structures. What horrible thing that existence today needs to go in the way of the dinosaurs. It's outdated and out of their minds. Time is passing them by, like all outlived things.

But if their work is built on principles of inner truth it will live on, even if the outer form changes. It is like religion, one form of worship replaces another as people grow and expand, learning new ideas and facts. Freemasonry will change with time but the truth at its core will be the same.

You seem totally ignorant of what they represent.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

lol, I thought I might be:rolleyes:

Perhaps I need that many post to remind people of how ignorant they often are. I know many posters who have lots of posts that consist purely of cut and paste bullshit with no effort at actually leanring anything for themselves, or forming any individual viewpoint, making them worse than the sheep they often condemn.

I actually own a few of Ickes books and I initially found them interesting but once you start digging into things and questioning his research then its less convincing. For instance, my favourite is that in Children of the Matrix he claims an Egyptian wall painting has an alien on it when in fact its a vase. Totally priceless research that and yet people in here refuse to accept the facts :D. I could mention other things but I have already suffered enough abuse for my criticism :D

Whats the big problem with David anyway hes got his views. It maybe a patch work of other peoples views but thats how it goes for all of us. We take what we see and try to make sense of it. I dont think Davids taking credit for all his knowlege he so often uses quotes from great people.

Davids pro freedom anti-racisim and anti-establishment and he is trying to enlighten people. He may not have everything right but his core message is good and he is genuine.

[twilighterheart]

But if their work is built on principles of inner truth it will live on, even if the outer form changes. It is like religion, one form of worship replaces another as people grow and expand, learning new ideas and facts. Freemasonry will change with time but the truth at its core will be the same.

You seem totally ignorant of what they represent.

Well, how ignorant of me, why of course religion has never harmed anyone in history. :rolleyes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Francois_Dubois_001.jpg
French Wars of Religion
French Wars of Religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The St. Bartholomew Massacre was a turning point in both French history and the history of the European Christian church. Protestants no longer viewed Catholicism as a misguided church, but as the force of the devil itself. No longer were Protestants fighting for a reformed church, but they suddenly saw themselves fighting for survival against a Catholic church whose cruelty and violence seemed to know no bounds. Throughout Europe, Protestant movements slowly transformed into militant movements.


http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REFORM/WARS.HTM
In 1576, Henry III ascended to the throne; he was the youngest brother of Francis II and Charles IX. By this point, France had become a basket case. On the one hand, the Guises had formed a Catholic League, which was violent and fanatical. On the other hand, the Huguenots were filled with a passion for vengeance. Like his mother, Henry tried to stay in the middle of the conflict. Unlike his mother, he had immense popular support for this middle course; the St. Bartholomew Massacre had deeply troubled moderate Catholics and the growing conflict upset moderate Huguenots. These moderates were called politiques ("politicians") , since their central interest was the political and social stability of France rather than their religious beliefs.

[mountain]

Whats the big problem with David anyway hes got his views. It maybe a patch work of other peoples views but thats how it goes for all of us. We take what we see and try to make sense of it. I dont think Davids taking credit for all his knowlege he so often uses quotes from great people.

Davids pro freedom anti-racisim and anti-establishment and he is trying to enlighten people. He may not have everything right but his core message is good and he is genuine.

Yes precisely. I think others are too critical of his work and nitpicking it, rather than researching the many elements he brings to light in the simplest way.

[lycan]

I am in the UK. Read my post. The chaps I know are involved in Blue, chapter and various other bits and bobs and are more advanced in your lucifarian shite organization than you'll ever get. This is why they put the time in.

Do you see?

Yes we have them here as well TIM. They are the same type of people that you know from nom life. So what you are saying is my father is a bad person for being a 32 and in many orders to go in and i knowing a few 33,to you they are also bed people to there family??? I have never seen anything down the lines of what you say.


Such Is Life.

[purplepebble]

How do you know that I do not go to church?????
Freemasonry is a place where men of many religions can meet in peace and enjoy fellowship. What Church offers that??
regards
Gerard

So the lodge is your church.

[luciferhorus]

Originally Posted by scorpio

Freemasonry is a place where men of many religions can meet in peace and enjoy fellowship.

Perhaps you are confusing Masonry with Thelonious' Church, that being Unitarian Universalism which welcomes the vast array of Capitalists, Communists, Christians, Pagans, and the assorted array of theists, agnostics and atheists (much like this forum).

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg

Certainly at the lower levels of Masonry, adherents of many religions are welcome, however at the level of cult membership which you claim to have attained, Kadosh (Kadosh (קדוש) lit. Sacred; "to make holy, godlike" ) which is the Christian order of the Knight's Templars, ultimately only Christians who believe that the "godlike" Christ (Jesus) was a militant, genocidal, evangelical, Capitalist, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, imperialist, usuryist collaborator, like yourself for example, can gain admission.

This Scottish Capitalist version of Christ as the personification of a "Capitalist Devil" has absolutely nothing to do with the historical Jesus however.

Lux



The Historical Jesus and the Christ Myth.

Lucifer 2010

http://www.crosscircle.com/images/isis%20and%20horus.jpg

Firstly I think it should be pointed out that the existence of the actual historical Jesus of the Gospels cannot be proven nor disproven. However, since there were quite a number of Israelites who invoked the Messianic prophecies, I think it likely that a similar person whom the myths are based on did exist; in fact that there were many such persons, including:

"Simon son of Joseph (c. 4 BCE) a former slave of Herod the Great who rebelled. The messiah of Gabriel's Revelation.
Athronges (c. 4-2? BCE), leader of a rebellion with his four brothers against Archelaus and the Romans after proclaiming himself the Messiah[1]. He and his brothers were eventually defeated.
Jesus of Nazareth (ca. 4 BC - AD 30), in Galilee and the Roman province of Judea. Jews who believed him to be the Messiah were the first Christians. It is estimated that there are between 1.5 and 2 billion Christians in the world today[2], making Jesus of Nazareth the most widely followed Messiah claimant.
Menahem ben Judah partook in a revolt against Agrippa II in Judea."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants

The Historical Jesus

In the academic field of the study of the religion, the term "historical Jesus" generally refers to the human person whose dialogues and teachings appear in the Four Gospels. This is a human person who has been stripped of myths, miracles and the later addition of ontological (i.e., the type of being) divinity which proclaimed him as "God," the creator of the universe. It is unlikely that he actually made the claim to be the Creator, as in ancient Israel, this would have resulted in a "Life of Brian" type stoning. Further the addition of "myths" and "miracles" are common to accounts of ancient god men.

The Israelite Jesus

http://www.shawngaran.com/uploads/1/4/2/6/1426451/1216911.png?174

Geza Vermes' textbook "Jesus the Jew (1973)" has been a standard university textbook for decades, Vemes is not a Christian; he was a professor of "Jewish Studies" at Oxford university and is widely considered one of the world's leading experts in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic.

"He is a noted authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient works in Aramaic, and on the life and religion of Jesus. He has been described as the greatest Jesus scholar of his time. Vermes' written work on Jesus focuses principally on Jesus the Jew, as seen in the broader context of the narrative scope of Jewish history and theology, while questioning the basis of some Christian teachings on Jesus." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9za_Vermes

This image of an Israelite Jesus is one which is almost universally rejected and reviled by most Capitalist Christians for whom Jesus is essentially a Hellenic Saviour" deity and who has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism; a religion which is universally rejected by almost all Capitalist Christians.


Jesus the Solar Saviour Deity

This is essentially a view which the work of Acharya S, Jordan Maxwell and others supports. It is a Jesus who has been stripped of his historical teachings, stripped of his Judaic identity, stipped of his xenophobic views of Gentiles (foreigners) and turned into a solar cult where salvation has been offered to Gentiles who practice the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of his historical teachings. This is certainly not a culturally and historically "Israelite" Jesus, but rather a Hellenic invention.


Liberation Theology: Jesus the anti-Capitalist and anti-propertyist

For a brief intoroduction to Liberation Theology see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology.

The Liberation Theology movement arose particularly in Latin America in the 60's and 70's, thoug their historical legacy pointed to that of St Francis and other Christian communist movements throughout history, many of which were considered heresies by establishment Christianity.

Probably one of the major forefathers of the modern Liberation Theology movement is the apostate Franciscan professor Leonardo Boff whose work "Introducing Liberation Theology" has also been a standard university textbood for decades.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gjqcUr05L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The Liberation Theology perspective attempts to reconcile the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist, proletarian figure of Jesus with modern Communist and socialist political philosophy; it is essentially a form of Marxist Christianity; it is a "Gospel of the poor" which is highly critical of establishment Capitalist Christianity and which portrays Jesus as an anti-establishment, anti-Capitalist figure. It is perhaps the anti-thesis of the evangelical Christianity of the Capitalist American Religious Right and indeed of all forms of established Christianity.

To be fair, a general criticism of the Liberation theology movement is that Christian Liberation theologians / Marxist Christians have often ignored the historical "Israelite" perspective of Gaza Vermes; it is still a Jesus stripped of his Israelite identity, and further many Liberation Theologians still import certain Hellenic solar deity beliefs.

http://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/religious-left.jpg

Liberation Theology in political terms is essentially Marxism stripped of atheism and materialism. Unfortunately we have yet to see the establishment of a Christian Marxist region in Latin America.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_g-k/I035_castro.chavez.granma.jpg

Probably the world's best known product and political celebrity of the Liberation Theology movement is the Venezuela president Hugo Chavez who is a militant pro-Cuban socialist and a Christian. Chavez is widely considered by the US religious and political right to be a terorist; a term which is rather complimentary in light of his anti-establishment mentor, Jesus; indeed the multi-millionaire Capitalist Christian evangelist Pat Robertson called on his US TV channel for the American military to assassinate Chavez.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_4IzrXz16ggc/Sxb4EA6l1EI/AAAAAAAAAJU/e0HkMuvDiuY/chejesus.jpg

[twilighterheart]

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg

usuryist collaborator
Lux

usuryist collaborator, What?

That guy looks like he is ready to rape and pillage a village.:D

[1776]

Perhaps you are confusing Masonry with Thelonious' Church, that being Unitarian Universalism which welcomes the vast array of Capitalists, Communists, Christians, Pagans, and the assorted array of theists, agnostics and atheists (much like this forum).

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4417/serpentseedsamongustemplar2bl.jpg

Certainly at the lower levels of Masonry, adherents of many religions are welcome, however at the level of cult membership which you claim to have attained, Kadosh (Kadosh (קדוש) lit. Sacred; "to make holy, godlike" ) which is the Christian order of the Knight's Templars, ultimately only Christians who believe that the "godlike" Christ (Jesus) was a militant, genocidal, evangelical, Capitalist, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, imperialist, usuryist collaborator, like yourself for example, can gain admission.

This Scottish Capitalist version of Christ as the personification of a "Capitalist Devil" has absolutely nothing to do with the historical Jesus however.

Lux

Masons aren't Christians.


Peace&Love
God bless

[agneau]

Masons aren't Christians.


Peace&Love
God bless

Very true.

But some Christians are Masons.

[scorpio]

So the lodge is your church.

No Freemasonry is not a subsitute for your religion but an addition to it. In that men of different religions meet in a place where the name of God is invoked.
Gerard

[1776]

Very true.

But some Christians are Masons.

No. They are not.



Peace&Love
God bless

[thelonious]

No. They are not.



Yes. They are.

[1776]

Yes. They are.

How do you figure?

[thelonious]

Great, as a human being I consider myself to be enligtened. Why must you attatch enlightenment to a fraternity or any group? So you agree we are all after 'more light' then?

I do not necessarily attach enlightenment to a fraternity. Certainly, there are plenty of non-Masons who have reached various stages of enlightenment, and there are plenty of Masons who have not.

My only point in that context is that Freemasonry had preserved the ancient wisdom teachings throughout the dark ages when such teachings were suppressed.


If it is going to come down to a duel of locked horns where whoever says 'you are wrong, I am right' with most conviction, then I will say, unflinchingly that you are wrong about this, whether you know it or not is another matter.

Well, you may say whatever you like, but I certainly know what I'm talking about, from many years of research and personal experience.


I don't know, I think the evedence is pretty good myself. As for looking within Acedemia, no thanks. I like many others here have had a pretty Mason-heavy eductation. Some of us wake up from that old chesnut.

Then you must admit that your knowledge comes not from factual sources, but from hearsay.


The fact that I myself believe fully in the esoteric/hermetic wisdom that Masons practice yet still think the Masons are on the wrong side of the light does not mean anything to you?

Yes. It tells me that you are not practicing critical thinking. This isn't meant as a dig at you personally, and you're probably a nice guy and sincere in your beliefs. But to say that you believe in what Freemasonry teaches but don't like Freemasonry....it's a contradiction in logic.


Nothing either of you have said goes much beyond rhethoric. You want to be in a group with decent company and the finest Château Rouge, I can suggest many avenues.

This is sort of what I mean....it displays a complete misunderstanding of what Freemasonry really is.

[thelonious]

How do you figure?

Most Masons are Christians.

In fact, up until the Anderson Constitutions were approved, *all* Masons were Christians. It was only after the Anderson amendments were approved by the Grand Lodge of England that non-Christians were admitted for the first time.

Nevertheless, the Swedish Rite of Freemasonry is still Christian-only, and even in the Rites that allow non-Christians to join, it's still the case that most are Christians anyway.

[mike martin]

I was wondering what it is about the David Icke site.forum that attracts freemasons to look/join.

I just can't get enough of the love.

Mike

[thelonious]

I just can't get enough of the love.



Yeah, it's like Woodstock around here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KYcnDFS019M/SctpHv5pT6I/AAAAAAAACnA/UBYU1USykUU/s400/all_you_need_is_love-Beatles.jpg

[1776]

Most Masons are Christians.

In fact, up until the Anderson Constitutions were approved, *all* Masons were Christians. It was only after the Anderson amendments were approved by the Grand Lodge of England that non-Christians were admitted for the first time.

Nevertheless, the Swedish Rite of Freemasonry is still Christian-only, and even in the Rites that allow non-Christians to join, it's still the case that most are Christians anyway.

Because someone claims they're a Christian doesn't make them one. I can claim to be a Mason, but it doesn't make me one either.

They aren't worshipping the God of the Bible.

Peace&Love
God bless

[thelonious]

They aren't worshipping the God of the Bible.



They are if they are Christians.

[rodin]

Because someone claims they're a Christian doesn't make them one. I can claim to be a Mason, but it doesn't make me one either.

They aren't worshipping the God of the Bible.

Peace&Love
God bless

Perhaps they are. The God YHWH of the Old Testament.

Dear reader -- after the tape machine had been turned off, I accused Harold Rosenthal of not living up to our agreement in replying truthfully to my question as to the Jews being God's Chosen people. He replied:

"We are god's chosen people . . . Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is Lucifer -- so I wasn't lying -- and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive."

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/Harold_Wallace_Rosenthal_Interview_1976.htm

[purplepebble]

No Freemasonry is not a subsitute for your religion but an addition to it. In that men of different religions meet in a place where the name of God is invoked.
Gerard

So for some masons, it is like church then? If you feel that church is no place to meet fellow brothers (your previous quote), isn't the lodge a substitute?



How does that work if members beleive in different Gods?

So the high preist of the lodge invokes the name of God then?

[thelonious]

So for some masons, it is like church then? If you feel that church is no place to meet fellow brothers (your previous quote), isn't the lodge a substitute?



How does that work if members beleive in different Gods?

So the high preist of the lodge invokes the name of God then?

There isn't a "high priest of the lodge". A lodge is a club, not a church. It doesn't really matter what the different members' concept of God is.

[thelonious]

Perhaps they are. The God YHWH of the Old Testament.





There is no difference. Jesus identified the God of the OT with his own God many times. For one to believe in the God of the NT and not the OT is to be logically inconsistent and intellectually dishonest.

[purplepebble]

There isn't a "high priest of the lodge". A lodge is a club, not a church. It doesn't really matter what the different members' concept of God is.


Who invokes "God" then?

concept of God? What do you mean by that? My concept of God might be a "satanic" force.

Sounds wishy washy.

[thelonious]

Who invokes "God" then?

What do you mean by "invoking God"? I'm not sure I follow you.

concept of God? What do you mean by that?

I mean, for example, the Christian literalist believes that God is exactly what the Bible says, all the Bible stories are literally true, etc. I personally have a much more abstract concept of God, as do other mystics and rationalists.

My concept of God might be a "satanic" force.



"Satanic" can only be defined within the context of Judeo-Christianity, since only Jews and Christians (and Muslims) believe in the existence of such a thing. Therefore, since Jews, Muslims and Christians do not believe that God is satanic, to say that one's concept of God is "satanic" doesn't make a lot of sense.

[masonicboom]

Well, it must have something to do with my user name,
people often shorten it to Mason, if they are angry.

+ the money is nice!

;)

[purplepebble]

What do you mean by "invoking God"? I'm not sure I follow you.



I mean, for example, the Christian literalist believes that God is exactly what the Bible says, all the Bible stories are literally true, etc. I personally have a much more abstract concept of God, as do other mystics and rationalists.



"Satanic" can only be defined within the context of Judeo-Christianity, since only Jews and Christians (and Muslims) believe in the existence of such a thing. Therefore, since Jews, Muslims and Christians do not believe that God is satanic, to say that one's concept of God is "satanic" doesn't make a lot of sense.

my question about invoking god was in response to Scorpio's post.

"satan" is "god" to satanist's, the being/power/force they beleive in and worship. Still a religion, just a different name.

[thelonious]

"satan" is "god" to satanist's, the being/power/force they beleive in and worship. Still a religion, just a different name.

Actually, Satanists don't believe in Satan. They are atheists/agnostics who believe that Christianity is hypocritical, and thus evil. They view Satan as a sort of symbol of freedom, and so created an anti-church based on it (see Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible for further clarification).

If there are people who actually worship the Christian devil, they are simply rebelling against Christianity rather than starting a new religion. They are obviously still psychologically hung up on Christianity since the devil is primarily the Christians' invention.

Regardless, none of that has anything to do with Freemasonry. Masonry's mysticism is an outgrowth of Greek Hermetic philosophy and Neo-Platonism.

[purplepebble]

Actually, Satanists don't believe in Satan. They are atheists/agnostics who believe that Christianity is hypocritical, and thus evil. They view Satan as a sort of symbol of freedom, and so created an anti-church based on it (see Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible for further clarification).

If there are people who actually worship the Christian devil, they are simply rebelling against Christianity rather than starting a new religion. They are obviously still psychologically hung up on Christianity since the devil is primarily the Christians' invention.

Regardless, none of that has anything to do with Freemasonry. Masonry's mysticism is an outgrowth of Greek Hermetic philosophy and Neo-Platonism.


I don't take Anton Le Vey seriously at all.

You do not have to be rebelling against christianity to be in worshipping a satanic/evil/dark force or whatever name you want to put on it. That was just an example. There are spiritual wanderers in many many religions.

[thelonious]

I don't take Anton Le Vey seriously at all.

Neither do I, but he was the principle figure in satanism, and satanists more or less adhere to his teachings.

You do not have to be rebelling against christianity to be in worshipping a satanic/evil/dark force or whatever name you want to put on it. That was just an example. There are spiritual wanderers in many many religions.

Then I'm not quite sure what the point of your question was. Freemasonry views God in a traditional fashion inasmuch as it considers God to be "good". The motto of Freemasonry, "the Brotherhood of Man Under the Fatherhood of God", shows that God is a fatherly figure, not a satanic one.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Anton Le Vey first satanist? I think your find theres a whole group of people who worship the devil in the middle east the Yazidi (If we are using the word satan to describe the devil)

Anton le vey is satanism for pop culture. We know devil worship has been going on much longer.

I thought you masons worship lucifer the light bringer.

[thelonious]

Anton Le Vey first satanist? I think your find theres a whole group of people who worship the devil in the middle east the Yazidi (If we are using the word satan to describe the devil)

No, the Yezidis do not worship Satan. They worship Malak Taus, the peacock angel. It's the Muslims and Christians who identified the Yezidi god with their own devil, for propaganda purposes no doubt.

Anton le vey is satanism for pop culture. We know devil worship has been going on much longer.

All satanism is for pop culture.

I thought you masons worship lucifer the light bringer.

You thought wrong.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

No, the Yezidis do not worship Satan. They worship Malak Taus, the peacock angel. It's the Muslims and Christians who identified their god with their own devil, for propaganda purposes no doubt.



All satanism is for pop culture.



You thought wrong.

What about your picture is it not a representation of lucifers knowlege he gave us?

[purplepebble]

Neither do I, but he was the principle figure in satanism, and satanists more or less adhere to his teachings.



Then I'm not quite sure what the point of your question was. Freemasonry views God in a traditional fashion inasmuch as it considers God to be "good". The motto of Freemasonry, "the Brotherhood of Man Under the Fatherhood of God", shows that God is a fatherly figure, not a satanic one.


My point is that you do not have to beleive in a "Good God" to be a mason.

This is not a slight on you at all, there are masons that are good.

If you have ever had any experience with wanderers, you will know that they can put on a different face for whatever situation they are in. I have had a couple of experiences with these types of spirits. Neither of them were good at all.

[thelonious]

What about your picture is it not a representation of lucifers knowlege he gave us?

What knowledge might that be? The "Lucifer" in Christian mythology is somewhat patterned after the Greek titan Prometheus who gave the light of knowledge to mankind, but all those stories are just symbolic. I don't worship imaginary beings.

The picture in my avatar is the symbol of the Unitarian Universalist Association.

[thelonious]

My point is that you do not have to beleive in a "Good God" to be a mason.



As far as that goes, one technically may not even believe in God at all, and just lies about it so he can become a Mason. But obviously, he's going to quickly get bored in Freemasonry if much of Masonic philosophy centers around the nature of God, and God's goodness.

[marpat]

Whats the big problem with David anyway hes got his views. It maybe a patch work of other peoples views but thats how it goes for all of us. We take what we see and try to make sense of it. I dont think Davids taking credit for all his knowlege he so often uses quotes from great people.

Davids pro freedom anti-racisim and anti-establishment and he is trying to enlighten people. He may not have everything right but his core message is good and he is genuine.

So if he is anti-racism why are many of his followers from far right/ neo-nazi groups?

[marpat]

So for some masons, it is like church then? If you feel that church is no place to meet fellow brothers (your previous quote), isn't the lodge a substitute?



How does that work if members beleive in different Gods?

So the high preist of the lodge invokes the name of God then?

Its not a substitue because many masons are regular church goers anyway, or attend whatever religious meetings they are part of.

100 people could look at one light and call it by different names yet its attributes would be the same to all people

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

So if he is anti-racism why are many of his followers from far right/ neo-nazi groups?

Not what I know of there not.:)

[marpat]

Who invokes "God" then?

concept of God? What do you mean by that? My concept of God might be a "satanic" force.

Sounds wishy washy.

So if you believed in a satanic god why would you join a fellowship that promotes good moral values? it would be averse to what you are worshipping.

A satanic force cannot be God anyway. There is a pretty simple explanaition why that is

[marpat]

Not what I know of there not.:)

Perhaps you should read up then. Many believe he uses the term reptilian to mean jew.

[marpat]

Anton Le Vey first satanist? I think your find theres a whole group of people who worship the devil in the middle east the Yazidi (If we are using the word satan to describe the devil)

Anton le vey is satanism for pop culture. We know devil worship has been going on much longer.

I thought you masons worship lucifer the light bringer.

Another idiotic statement, straight from the pews

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Perhaps you should read up then. Many believe he uses the term reptilian to mean jew.

Ok the paranoid ADL that is a very dubious organisation looked into it and they quite clearly came back and said no hes talking about reptilians.

Open and Closed case.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Another idiotic statement, straight from the pews

If you all belive in God do you ever worry you might end up in hell. Jesus was about telling the truth and being honest cant really do that if your covering for mason who a pedofile can you

[purplepebble]

So if you believed in a satanic god why would you join a fellowship that promotes good moral values? it would be averse to what you are worshipping.

A satanic force cannot be God anyway. There is a pretty simple explanaition why that is

What? Someone can't wander after they have joined a lodge?

A satanic force can possess a person, a person can worship/revere a satanic force.

In the spirit realm all things are possible. Don't you know that already?

[thelonious]

What? Someone can't wander after they have joined a lodge?

A satanic force can possess a person, a person can worship/revere a satanic force.

In the spirit realm all things are possible. Don't you know that already?

In your opinion, what exactly is "the spirit realm"?

[purplepebble]

In your opinion, what exactly is "the spirit realm"?

To try and put it in very simple terms, I beleive in a Creator that is Eternal, I beleive that there are spirits/entities that exist in the unseen realm. A spirit can be a thought form, an idea, a form of communication. Everything is the spirit realm.

[thelonious]

To try and put it in very simple terms, I beleive in a Creator that is Eternal, I beleive that there are spirits/entities that exist in the unseen realm. A spirit can be a thought form, an idea, a form of communication. Everything is the spirit realm.

Thanks for the attempt, but now I'm even more confused!

You say that there is an "unseen relam". Where do you believe that this is located?

[lightgiver]

Thanks for the attempt, but now I'm even more confused!

You say that there is an "unseen relam". Where do you believe that this is located?

Can you see purple pebble? :)

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Formless_realm

Ghost Dog - Emptiness is Form

Ghost Dog - Emptiness is Form - YouTube

[marpat]

If you all belive in God do you ever worry you might end up in hell. Jesus was about telling the truth and being honest cant really do that if your covering for mason who a pedofile can you

Well Im not covering for any sex offenders. You might find that its the church that tends to cover up for such abuse. As a parent I find such a remark quite offensive really.

So this is what it comes down to, just as I suspected. Christians who judge others out of pure stupidity and ignorance. Not only that but as a christian you are commiting a sin by judging others and making evil generalisations, so perhaps it will be you going to hell.

[marpat]

What? Someone can't wander after they have joined a lodge?

A satanic force can possess a person, a person can worship/revere a satanic force.

In the spirit realm all things are possible. Don't you know that already?

But such things can happen anywhere and yet all I see is people accusing freemasons. Such evil acts happen in the homes and lives of many church going christians, even though they claim their faith saves them from such evil

[purplepebble]

Can you see purple pebble? :)

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Formless_realm


Unseen would be energetic level, something you can feel but not see, or something that is yet to be manifested in the physical plane. To put simply once again.

[marpat]

To try and put it in very simple terms, I beleive in a Creator that is Eternal, I beleive that there are spirits/entities that exist in the unseen realm. A spirit can be a thought form, an idea, a form of communication. Everything is the spirit realm.

So then if a mason believes in this sort of creator then why do you have such a problem with them? when a person goes to church and claims to believe in God then who is to say that their belief is true and accurate and that what they follow is not an evil spirit? the same things that you throw at masons can be thrown at you.

[thelonious]

Unseen would be energetic level, something you can feel but not see, or something that is yet to be manifested in the physical plane. To put simply once again.

Energetic level, as at the quantum level? I ask because you say "physical plane" as if there is a "non-physical plane", so I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Well Im not covering for any sex offenders. You might find that its the church that tends to cover up for such abuse. As a parent I find such a remark quite offensive really.

So this is what it comes down to, just as I suspected. Christians who judge others out of pure stupidity and ignorance. Not only that but as a christian you are commiting a sin by judging others and making evil generalisations, so perhaps it will be you going to hell.


Did I say I was a christian? I thought you said you was christian.:confused:

[marpat]

Did I say I was a christian? I thought you said you was christian.:confused:

Im not one but you surely give the impression that you are one.

[purplepebble]

So then if a mason believes in this sort of creator then why do you have such a problem with them? when a person goes to church and claims to believe in God then who is to say that their belief is true and accurate and that what they follow is not an evil spirit? the same things that you throw at masons can be thrown at you.

I dont have a problem with masons at all, I have a problem with masons who think that the possibility and fact that satantic (for lack of a better word) masons do not exist.

Throw at me whatever you want, I can handle it.

I might think that the Christian version of God is evil. Just becuase I beleive in a Creator doesn't mean its the christian "version".

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Im not one but you surely give the impression that you are one.

Why? do most christians think your practicing the dark arts:confused:

The plot thickens

[marpat]

Why? do most christians think your practicing the dark arts:confused:

The plot is thickens

The only thickening is in your head. Many christians think that listeneing to music is a dark art :D

[purplepebble]

Energetic level, as at the quantum level? I ask because you say "physical plane" as if there is a "non-physical plane", so I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you.

Yes , I suppose you could call it that, although I don't specifically use that term.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

The only thickening is in your head. Many christians think that listeneing to music is a dark art :D

Well we know there is a lot of satanic imagery in rap music these days and masonic signs then theres the back masking. JZ he likes all that kind of dark stuff.;)

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Your Avater says a lot about you! Aliester used to like young boys didn't he?

[marpat]

Your Avater says a lot about you! Aliester used to like young boys didn't he?

Are you accusing me of something?

Your name is freeyourmind yet you judge me by accusations against another person who was accused on many things and judged innocent. Your mind is not as free as you pretend.

If he did like them then perhaps it was the side effect of his strict christian upbringing. We all know what christians are good for.

[eternal_spirit]

Well we know there is a lot of satanic imagery in rap music these days and masonic signs then theres the back masking. JZ he likes all that kind of dark stuff.;)
That's not technically music, they don't play musical instruments or sing. They preach man in an awful tone. Just my opinion of course. But to some I am committing blasphemy against their God's and religion of rap. They missed the C out imo crap.

Must say there's an awful lot of crap said about OTO too, I used to post it myself. Apologies to those here you know who you are.

Masons like some Churches do raise money for charity and network in the community to help business and the community.

My Uncle was a top bloke now dead but was a Mason. He got a compass and set square on his grave.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Are you accusing me of something?

Your name is freeyourmind yet you judge me by accusations against another person who was accused on many things and judged innocent. Your mind is not as free as you pretend.

Well you got his pic as your avater, I thought you would have known. I also thought you might have known his influence in the music industry and how he called himself the anti-christ. Sounds like a wonderful guy and says a lot about the kind of person you are and the kind society freemasonry is.

[twilighterheart]

Hey, let's get back to what is important, namely making fun of masons. If I was trying to run my local town or bank, I wouldn't desire to dress like some loser going to a renaissance fair with wearing goofing outfits.

Their buildings are kinda of neat, but man their ridiculous getups just loses them nothing but respect.

[marpat]

Well you got his pic as your avater, I thought you would have known. I also thought you might have known his influence in the music industry and how he called himself the anti-christ. Sounds like a wonderful guy and says a lot about the kind of person you are and the kind society freemasonry is.

Well have you actually read any of his material from a non-biased standpoint? have you ever read some of the things written about him purely to attack his charatcer? perhaps you fail to realise that all revolutionary thinkers tend to be demonised by the society they live in. People think jesus is the norm in the west but his story in the bible shows exactly the same attacks and defamations.

I know many of the accusations made but I also know he went to court for various things and was proven innocent. As I did not know him personally and rely on information that I have read I could not say if such things did or did not happen for certain but you seem to be keen to condemn a man that you have never known based on nothing more than stories you have read.

Makes me laugh when people like you think they are free minded but are really trapped inside their bubbles of darkness and can only see through a dark surface. Your belief in your mental freedom in nothing short of pretentious.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Well have you actually read any of his material from a non-biased standpoint? have you ever read some of the things written about him purely to attack his charatcer? perhaps you fail to realise that all revolutionary thinkers tend to be demonised by the society they live in. People think jesus is the norm in the west but the his story in the bible shows exactly the same attacks and defamations.

I know many of the accusations made but I also know he went to court for various things and was proven innocent. As I did not know him personally and rely on information that I have read I could not say if such things did or did not happen for certain but you seem to be keen to condemn a man that you have never known based on nothing more than stories you have read.

Makes me laugh when people like you think they are free minded but are really trapped inside their bubbles of darkness and can only see through a dark surface. Your belief in your mental freedom in nothing short of pretentious.

Sort of gives credit to the rumour of masonic judges and freemasonic corruption. Is being predatory revolotionary do what shall will and all that.
The self proclaimed Most Evil Man in history and you want me to believe he was innocent.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I noticed you changed your Avater not so out and proud anymore?

[marpat]

Sort of gives credit to the rumour of masonic judges and freemasonic corruption. Is being predatory revolotionary do what shall will and all that.
The self proclaimed Most Evil Man in history and you want me to believe he was innocent.

Lol, always makes me laugh when people try to use quotes from his work without any idea of what they are saying, no context, and no thought, which I tend to expect in this place.

I think you believe his own hype to much. If you actually read his work you might realise he had a sense of humour and said many things to piss people off, and funny enough it worked!!

[marpat]

I noticed you changed your Avater not so out and proud anymore?

I still have the same signature though. Perhaps you only respond to pictures and not words though, judging by your intellectual ability

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Lol, always makes me laugh when people try to use quotes from his work without any idea of what they are saying, no context, and no thought, which I tend to expect in this place.

I think you believe his own hype to much. If you actually read his work you might realise he had a sense of humour and said many things to piss people off, and funny enough it worked!!

I am not pissed off I am just letting you expose freemasonry for what is.:)

[purplepebble]

Marpat. It makes me laugh when people like yourself scoff at the idea of "satanic" masonry, your camouflage has a hole in it and I can see you.

[marpat]

I am not pissed off I am just letting you expose freemasonry for what is.:)

Crowley was NOT a recognised freemason and his magical system is not linked to freemasonry. In the UK a person would have to leave Crowleys OTO, with no intention of returning, of they want to be freemasons as they consider the OTO to be quasi-masonic. A freemason cannot be part of a quasi masonic organisation

[marpat]

Marpat. It makes me laugh when people like yourself scoff at the idea of "satanic" masonry, your camouflage has a hole in it and I can see you.

Yet you believe the stories of your supposed high ranking dugpa freemason friend. I bet he told you he had all sorts of powers and knowledge just to get you in the sack. Probably pumped and dumped and thats why you have such an issue with it.

[thelonious]

That's not technically music, they don't play musical instruments or sing. They preach man in an awful tone. Just my opinion of course. But to some I am committing blasphemy against their God's and religion of rap. They missed the C out imo crap.

Must say there's an awful lot of crap said about OTO too, I used to post it myself. Apologies to those here you know who you are.

Masons like some Churches do raise money for charity and network in the community to help business and the community.

My Uncle was a top bloke now dead but was a Mason. He got a compass and set square on his grave.

ES, I do have to thank you for having the honesty to admit what you've admitted. It's certainly a sign of strength, not weakness, to be able to change your mind about something when you see the evidence.

But I'm curious: what caused the 360° change of heart?

[purplepebble]

Yet you believe the stories of your supposed high ranking dugpa freemason friend. I bet he told you he had all sorts of powers and knowledge just to get you in the sack.

Not at all, he was way too old for me..... and he was more into bondage with bent female cops, not my cuppa tea.... he taught me a few of his magick tricks though. He failed, it was a masonic FAIL.

You still have a hole in your cammo. And your last editing job was a fail too.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Yet you believe the stories of your supposed high ranking dugpa freemason friend. I bet he told you he had all sorts of powers and knowledge just to get you in the sack. Probably pumped and dumped and thats why you have such an issue with it.

Know its obviously the masons who have fallen for this silly quest to discover the Mysterys lmao:D

[marpat]

Not at all, he was way too old for me..... and he was more into bondage with bent female cops, not my cuppa tea.... he taught me a few of his magick tricks though. He failed, it was a masonic FAIL.

You still have a hole in your cammo. And your last editing job was a fail too.

What are you talking about?

You seem to be hung up on failure, perhaps you are projecting your own sense of being a failure onto others

[marpat]

Know its obviously the masons who have fallen for this silly quest to discover the Mysterys lmao:D

Er, I take it you are talking shit again?

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Er, I take it you are talking shit again?

Your quite a dim wit arent you. Is that why you joined the masons to try and fill that big empty hole in your life:D

[marpat]

Your quite a dim wit arent you. Is that why you joined the masons to try and fill that big empty hole in your life:D

You might find my life is a little more full than yours.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You might find my life is a little more full than yours.

Depends what your into. we dont all have the same tastes you know!;)

[purplepebble]

What are you talking about?

You seem to be hung up on failure, perhaps you are projecting your own sense of being a failure onto others

while you are hung up on idiocy, and project your own idiocy onto others.

[1776]

They are if they are Christians.

Not if they're Freemasons bound by the Oath of the Craft, they aren't.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124918

Go check out the thread I created about this very subject. I've covered this in LENGTH. Go on, I dare you to post a reply on that thread.

Perhaps they are. The God YHWH of the Old Testament.

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/Harold_Wallace_Rosenthal_Interview_1976.htm

Freemasons aren't Christians. Sorry.


Peace&Love
God bless

[luciferhorus]

Just to answer the general question stated by the OP.

The Grand Secretary has already stated that he is "paid" by his Masonic Lodge to debate here and to defend his particular GLOE religious cult.

I was on Watchy's Freemasonwatch discussion board some years ago when one of the participants claimed to be working for a public relations company employed by the UGLE cult.

In addition we can expect the Internet to be full of "professional" agents and propagandist defending state terrorism - narco-terrorism etc., which seems to be the general position expressed by Masonic cultists here.

Lux


http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=31618
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1150727/pg1

In January, an obscure academic article from 2008 made the rounds in the blogosphere that had been written by Obama’s information czar, Prof. Cass Sunstein.

Here’s an excerpt:
...we suggest a distinctive tactic for breaking up the hard core of extremists who supply conspiracy theories: cognitive infiltration of extremist groups, whereby government agents or their allies ... will undermine the crippled epistemology of those who subscribe to such theories. They do so by planting doubts about the theories and stylized facts that circulate within such groups, thereby introducing beneficial cognitive diversity(confusion).
Why should you be worried about this?

Glenn Greenwald from Salon.com explains it:
Sunstein advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups." He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the Government). This program would target those advocating false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."

.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Just to answer the general question stated by the OP.

The Grand Secretary has already stated that he is "paid" by his Masonic Lodge to debate here and to defend his particular GLOE religious cult.

I was on Watchy's Freemasonwatch discussion board some years ago when one of the participants claimed to be working for a public relations company employed by the UGLE cult.

In addition we can expect the Internet to be full of "professional" agents and propagandist defending state terrorism - narco-terrorism etc., which seems to be the general position expressed by Masonic cultists here.

Lux

Realy good info thanks!:)

[marpat]

while you are hung up on idiocy, and project your own idiocy onto others.

lol, again you have nothing to contribute

[marpat]

Not if they're Freemasons bound by the Oath of the Craft, they aren't.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124918

Go check out the thread I created about this very subject. I've covered this in LENGTH. Go on, I dare you to post a reply on that thread.



Freemasons aren't Christians. Sorry.


Peace&Love
God bless

Most christians aren't even christians

[thelonious]

Freemasons aren't Christians. Sorry.




As I've already said, most Freemasons are indeed Christians. This has always been the case.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

As I've already said, most Freemasons are indeed Christians. This has always been the case.

How can they be when jesus was on about a open and free society. And they belong to a secretive occult

[luciferhorus]

Most christians aren't even christians


Well I would go further and state that "all" Christians, when examined appear to universally reject the teachings of Jesus, though the Capitalist Christians and in particular the Masons their Christianity is such an extreme form of hypocrisy that it amounts to a mockey of the human ancestor whom they claim to misrepresent.

How can they be when jesus was on about a open and free society.

Not so sure about that one; he certainly portrayed himself a proponent of the Mosaic Law, which is a rather oppressive form of legalism; not really condusive to a free and open society.

[quote]And they belong to a secretive occult

Well Jesus' allegedly had a large reward for his arrest and he had to move from town to town and had "nowhere to lay his head (he was homeless). Further he did seem to have secret teachings and told his followers not to reveal certain things (such as his Messianic complex) possibly for fear of arrest.

Some European Communist groups are also highly secretive and paranoid about state terrorist infiltration.

My main issue with Masonry is not their secrecy, it is that, like their cult leader, their hypocritical brand of Christiasnity tends to bear fruit in a cult of Capitalist state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborators and that many of them are part of the economic / loan sharking and military establishment; they represent all that there is about "bad religion" and the "god of Capitalism (i.e. a Capitalist devil) that needs to be cut out of humanity.

Lux


The Historical Jesus and the Christ Myth.

Lucifer 2010

http://www.crosscircle.com/images/isis%20and%20horus.jpg

Firstly I think it should be pointed out that the existence of the actual historical Jesus of the Gospels cannot be proven nor disproven. However, since there were quite a number of Israelites who invoked the Messianic prophecies, I think it likely that a similar person whom the myths are based on did exist; in fact that there were many such persons, including:

Simon son of Joseph (c. 4 BCE) a former slave of Herod the Great who rebelled. The messiah of Gabriel's Revelation.
Athronges (c. 4-2? BCE), leader of a rebellion with his four brothers against Archelaus and the Romans after proclaiming himself the Messiah[1]. He and his brothers were eventually defeated.
Jesus of Nazareth (ca. 4 BC - AD 30), in Galilee and the Roman province of Judea. Jews who believed him to be the Messiah were the first Christians. It is estimated that there are between 1.5 and 2 billion Christians in the world today[2], making Jesus of Nazareth the most widely followed Messiah claimant.
Menahem ben Judah partook in a revolt against Agrippa II in Judea .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants

The Historical Jesus

In the academic field of the study of the religion, the term "historical Jesus" generally refers to the human person whose dialogues and teachings appear in the Four Gospels. This is a human person who has been stripped of myths, miracles and the later addition of ontological (i.e., the type of being) divinity which proclaimed him as "God," the creator of the universe. It is unlikely that he actually made the claim to be the Creator, as in ancient Israel, this would have resulted in a "Life of Brian" type stoning. Further the addition of "myths" and "miracles" are common to accounts of ancient god men.

The Israelite Jesus

http://www.shawngaran.com/uploads/1/4/2/6/1426451/1216911.png?174

Geza Vermes' textbook "Jesus the Jew (1973)" has been a standard university textbook for decades, Vemes is not a Christian; he was a professor of "Jewish Studies" at Oxford university and is widely considered one of the world's leading experts in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic.

"He is a noted authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient works in Aramaic, and on the life and religion of Jesus. He has been described as the greatest Jesus scholar of his time. Vermes' written work on Jesus focuses principally on Jesus the Jew, as seen in the broader context of the narrative scope of Jewish history and theology, while questioning the basis of some Christian teachings on Jesus." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9za_Vermes

This image of an Israelite Jesus is one which is almost universally rejected and reviled by most Capitalist Christians for whom Jesus is essentially a Hellenic Saviour" deity and who has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism; a religion which is universally rejected by almost all Capitalist Christians.


Jesus the Solar Saviour Deity

This is essentially a view which the work of Acharya S, Jordan Maxwell and others supports. It is a Jesus who has been stripped of his historical teachings, stripped of his Judaic identity, stipped of his xenophobic views of Gentiles (foreigners) and turned into a solar cult where salvation has been offered to Gentiles who practice the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of his historical teachings. This is certainly not a culturally and historically "Israelite" Jesus, but rather a Hellenic invention.


Liberation Theology: Jesus the anti-Capitalist and anti-propertyist

For a brief introduction to Liberation Theology see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology.

The Liberation Theology movement arose particularly in Latin America in the 60's and 70's, thoug their historical legacy pointed to that of St Francis and other Christian communist movements throughout history, many of which were considered heresies by establishment Christianity.

Probably one of the major forefathers of the modern Liberation Theology movement is the apostate Franciscan professor Leonardo Boff whose work "Introducing Liberation Theology" has also been a standard university textbood for decades.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gjqcUr05L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The Liberation Theology perspective attempts to reconcile the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist, proletarian figure of Jesus with modern Communist and socialist political philosophy; it is essentially a form of Marxist Christianity; it is a "Gospel of the poor" which is highly critical of establishment Capitalist Christianity and which portrays Jesus as an anti-establishment, anti-Capitalist figure. It is perhaps the anti-thesis of the evangelical Christianity of the Capitalist American Religious Right and indeed of all forms of established Christianity.

To be fair, a general criticism of the Liberation theology movement is that Christian Liberation theologians / Marxist Christians have often ignored the historical "Israelite" perspective of Gaza Vermes; it is still a Jesus stripped of his Israelite identity, and further many Liberation Theologians still import certain Hellenic solar deity beliefs.

http://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/religious-left.jpg

Liberation Theology in political terms is essentially Marxism stripped of atheism and materialism. Unfortunately we have yet to see the establishment of a Christian Marxist region in Latin America.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_g-k/I035_castro.chavez.granma.jpg

Probably the world's best known product and political celebrity of the Liberation Theology movement is the Venezuela president Hugo Chavez who is a militant pro-Cuban socialist and a Christian. Chavez is widely considered by the US religious and political right to be a terorist; a term which is rather complimentary in light of his anti-establishment mentor, Jesus; indeed the multi-millionaire Capitalist Christian evangelist Pat Robertson called on his US TV channel for the American military to assassinate Chavez.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_4IzrXz16ggc/Sxb4EA6l1EI/AAAAAAAAAJU/e0HkMuvDiuY/chejesus.jpg

[thelonious]

How can they be when jesus was on about a open and free society. And they belong to a secretive occult

So did Jesus, who almost certainly belonged to the occult Essene sect, which could be considered the "Freemasonry" of that time.

Examples are his use of teaching in parables, employing allegory. Also, his statement to his own disciples (initiates) that while he taught in parables to the people, he would teach them "openly".

He also warned his initiates to not "cast their pearls before swine", another example of his possessing a secret doctrine, which he taught in secret.

[luciferhorus]

So did Jesus, who almost certainly belonged to the occult Essene sect, which could be considered the "Freemasonry" of that time.



The "Essene" Jesus is really just a "speculation;" there appears to be no real evidence for that, other than certain ideological similarities between Jesus' proto-Communist teachings and the lifestyle and philosophy of the Essenes.

The Essenes.

http://www.essene.org/images/Nazariah_current_release.jpg

The Essenes were certainly ascetic & vegetarian proto-Communists who allegedly lived strictly according to the Mosaic Law, though engaging in "trading" was allegedly forbidden. I think it is rather offensive to compare the proto-Communist Essenes to the Masons, a Capitalist cult of Capitalists run by the aristocratic cult leader, the Field Marshall the Duke of Kent, and whose cult members generally join to rise up the Capitalist food chain and advance their careers and who have lodges which are attached to loan sharking institutions.

http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/TheFreemasons/images/prevs/0006105.jpg

The Freemasons today, at least in the economic sense, have a great deal more in common with the Sadducees, who were the Solomonic Temple cultists of that era and generally were the rather wealthy "religious establishment."

It was also the Sadducees who allegedly placed the reward on Jesus for his arrest. Similarly the Freemasons today, who appear to be universally anti-Communists and Capitalists, would be more likely to wage war against those of the ilk of Jesus today.

Lux

[purplepebble]

QUOTE=marpat lol, again you have nothing to contribute[/QUOTE]


http://www.estatevaults.com/bol/_Yawning,%20contagious.jpg

[marpat]

How can they be when jesus was on about a open and free society. And they belong to a secretive occult

So where does he claim so? did he not come to call sinners to repentance? that does not require a free society. Also, in part of the new testament is a part that tells slaves to serve their masters better if they are christians

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

So where does he claim so? did he not come to call sinners to repentance? that does not require a free society. Also, in part of the new testament is a part that tells slaves to serve their masters better if they are christians

If your teachings are good how can a Christian justify keeping knowlege from his fellow Brothers?

Was Jesus a Elitist or did he share his knowlege with all?

[asahi]

So did Jesus, who almost certainly belonged to the occult Essene sect, which could be considered the "Freemasonry" of that time.

Examples are his use of teaching in parables, employing allegory. Also, his statement to his own disciples (initiates) that while he taught in parables to the people, he would teach them "openly".

He also warned his initiates to not "cast their pearls before swine", another example of his possessing a secret doctrine, which he taught in secret.

Whether Jesus belonged to the Essenes is debatable but, in any case, the point that may be derived from this is that esoteric knowledge may look and sound alike in all its diverse formats. For example the use of symbol, sigil and motiff is not 'bad' in and of itself, but combined with Luciferian worship it certainly can be. Similarly, sexual ritual can be used to harm or to heal the planet. Masonry uses esoteric law to create chaos, to what degree the average Mason is aware of this I do not know, but I would suggest a LACK of spirituality is one of the factors that hides this from awareness. When you want to cross a river, are you using a wooden log or the back of the crocodile to get afloat? Most Masons, through lack of awareness, or lazyness, have climbed on the crocs back.

[marpat]

If your teachings are good how can a Christian justify keeping knowlege from his fellow Brothers?

Was Jesus a Elitist or did he share his knowlege with all?

and what are parables then if not hidden statements

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

and what are parables then if not hidden statements

by what definition is a parable a hidden statement? Your cult has been linked with hidious crimes! Accused of the most horrendous act of child sacrafice! And no lower ranks can really know if these statements are true due to the fact of the pyramid structure. And plus you cant betray your fellow members.

[marpat]

by what definition is a parable a hidden statement? Your cult has been linked with hidious crimes! Accused of the most horrendous act of child sacrafice! And no lower ranks can really know if these statements are true due to the fact of the pyramid structure. And plus you cant betray your fellow members.

And christianity has been linked to mass murder and genocide, torture and abuse the world over, yet many people think it is nothing but good!! It is no shock that the very religion that has centuries of blood on its hand has its members brainwashed to believe that they alone have the chance of salvation. yet these people who support a church of child abusing clergy accuse freemasons.

It's always the same lame excuses about people not knowing. You can betray fellow members if they break the law. I know this for a fact yet you chose to believe lies and deceit.

I guess the truth is that you are not a truth seeker, just a shit slinger. You read some conspiracy stuff and think you know it all. How ridiculous

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

And christianity has been linked to mass murder and genocide, torture and abuse the world over, yet many people think it is nothing but good!! It is no shock that the very religion that has centuries of blood on its hand has its members brainwashed to believe that they alone have the chance of salvation. yet these people who support a church of child abusing clergy accuse freemasons.

It's always the same lame excuses about people not knowing. You can betray fellow members if they break the law. I know this for a fact yet you chose to believe lies and deceit.

I guess the truth is that you are not a truth seeker, just a shit slinger. You read some conspiracy stuff and think you know it all. How ridiculous

I dont need to know the ins and outs of your mysterys to see the corrupting nature your society is having on my town.

[scorpio]

In this country Freemasons are told that they must obey the laws of the land. This is an important part of being a Freemason. If Freemasons break the law they are expellled from the order. Our society will never accept criminals.
When the courts send them to jail and after they have exhausted the legal appeals; we expell them.

There are people who have an anti Freemasonry agenda and will take delight in spreading lies about our order.

Freemasonry is a society of men who believe in God and want to be part of a society that promotes the brotherhood of man. I enjoy the company of my Jewish brethren, Muslim, Hindu and Christian Freemasons in the lodge, OSM and Royal arch orders.

We meet on the level as Freemasons and in masonic Temples do not discuss politics or religion. We do not plot against Governments or religions or seek World domination. We spend our time rasing money to keep open our masonic buildings and giving money and time to charity.

Gerard the friendly Freemason

[scorpio]

I dont need to know the ins and outs of your mysterys to see the corrupting nature your society is having on my town.

This is a serious allegation. Do you have poof that would stand up in a court of law?
Gerard

[marpat]

I dont need to know the ins and outs of your mysterys to see the corrupting nature your society is having on my town.

Yet you prefer lies and deceit to facts and truth. You prefer general accusations and group judgements rather than real justice and truth. People like you are as corrupt as anybody else.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

In this country Freemasons are told that they must obey the laws of the land. This is an important part of being a Freemason. If Freemasons break the law they are expellled from the order. Our society will never accept criminals.
When the courts send them to jail and after they have exhausted the legal appeals; we expell them.

There are people who have an anti Freemasonry agenda and will take delight in spreading lies about our order.

Freemasonry is a society of men who believe in God and want to be part of a society that promotes the brotherhood of man. I enjoy the company of my Jewish brethren, Muslim, Hindu and Christian Freemasons in the lodge, OSM and Royal arch orders.

We meet on the level as Freemasons and in masonic Temples do not discuss politics or religion. We do not plot against Governments or religions or seek World domination. We spend our time rasing money to keep open our masonic buildings and giving money and time to charity.

Gerard the friendly Freemason

I have heard it said Bournemouths Biggest Land Lord is a freemason and he has been to prison and his shop emblem is of Masonic design.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Yet you prefer lies and deceit to facts and truth. You prefer general accusations and group judgements rather than real justice and truth. People like you are as corrupt as anybody else.

Marpat I know freemasonrys corrupt I am not a fool. People talk you know thats the only reason your trying to come out in the open.

[scorpio]

I have heard it said Bournemouths Biggest Land Lord is a freemason and he has been to prison and his shop emblem is of Masonic design.

This is just gossip unless you have proof of this person's criminal convictions. The fact that his shop may have a Masonic design is not proof that Freemasons are equally guilty of the alledged criminal convictions. It is easy to destroy a reputation by wicked lies.
Gerard

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

This is a serious allegation. Do you have poof that would stand up in a court of law?
Gerard

I am quaking in my boots! Cause I can back my statement up you fool.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

This is a serious allegation. Do you have poof that would stand up in a court of law?
Gerard

Well probably not in our Kangaroo courts we know theres no justice with your tenticles in there!

[humason]

Well probably not in our Kangaroo courts we know theres justice with your tenticles in there!

You... wouldn't be able to share anything with us, would you?

We're not a court, so, hey, it doesn't need to be absolute proof, just... something that's not Heresay from a paranoid maniac? :D

[marpat]

Marpat I know freemasonrys corrupt I am not a fool. People talk you know thats the only reason your trying to come out in the open.

Corruption exist in every place, in every body of people. You try to demonise one group of people as part of a religious agenda, initially pushed by christians, to remove any threats to their religions, and therefore their coffers.

Again you judge a group rather than individuals. Who made you the judge over others, can you see into the hearts of men? let him without sin cast the first stone.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You... wouldn't be able to share anything with us, would you?

We're not a court, so, hey, it doesn't need to be absolute proof, just... something that's not Heresay from a paranoid maniac? :D

Do your own research its not hard to work out. Freemasons like to put there emblems on things. Its like a gang sign.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Corruption exist in every place, in every body of people. You try to demonise one group of people as part of a religious agenda, initially pushed by christians, to remove any threats to their religions, and therefore their coffers.

Again you judge a group rather than individuals. Who made you the judge over others, can you see into the hearts of men? let him without sin cast the first stone.

So you think members of the cosa nostra who have signed the blood oath are no worse than the average joe on the street?

[marpat]

So you think members of the cosa nostra who have signed the blood oath are no worse than the average joe on the street?

not having met any I could not say. Plenty of goths are into weird shit so are they satanic too?

So are you stll talking about real freemasonry here or some fantasy stuff?

[scorpio]

I am quaking in my boots! Cause I can back my statement up you fool.

No need to be rude in your reply. If you have this proof then go to the police and ask that they investigate your proof. People are innocent until proved guilty unless it would appear they are Freemasons:)
Gerard

[scorpio]

So you think members of the cosa nostra who have signed the blood oath are no worse than the average joe on the street?

Come.come Freemasons are not the Mafia:)
Gerard

[marpat]

Do your own research its not hard to work out. Freemasons like to put there emblems on things. Its like a gang sign.

lol, straight from an Icke book. You do some real research and you will find many anti-masonic accusations are bullshit. Fact is you dont want real truth, just you personal version of it

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

not having met any I could not say. Plenty of goths are into weird shit so are they satanic too?

So you admit your into weird shit? What level of freemasonry have you reached? Cause it seems by all accounts thats where the really weird shit starts happening!

[marpat]

So you admit your into weird shit? What level of freemasonry have you reached? Cause it seems by all accounts thats where the really weird shit starts happening!

I never said that at all. Funny how you have a habit of twisting ideas and words to fit your twisted mind.

So you know all sorts of stuff because you read about it? well thats me convinced :rolleyes:

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Come.come Freemasons are not the Mafia:)
Gerard

(Sociology) any group considered to resemble the Mafia. Heres a defination I found.

You have a lot in common you have both made oaths and the punishment for breaking the Oath is a horrible deaf.

Sounds very much like the mafia.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I never said that at all. Funny how you have a habit of twisting ideas and words to fit your twisted mind.

So you know all sorts of stuff because you read about it? well thats me convinced :rolleyes:

I am wasting my time talking to you anyway because you have made a oath not to speak.

[marpat]

I am wasting my time talking to you anyway because you have made a oath not to speak.

another lie!!

[marpat]

(Sociology) any group considered to resemble the Mafia. Heres a defination I found.

You have a lot in common you have both made oaths and the punishment for breaking the Oath is a horrible deaf.

Sounds very much like the mafia.

Another false accusation!!!

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

another lie!!

The freemasonry degrees and rituals can be found online.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Another false accusation!!!

But you would say that wouldnt you. Betraying the brotherhood is risky buissness could end up hanging over black friars bridge with your tounge cut out.

[marpat]

The freemasonry degrees and rituals can be found online.

Yes, but what you stated is a lie. I have taken no oath to not speak

[scorpio]

(Sociology) any group considered to resemble the Mafia. Heres a defination I found.

You have a lot in common you have both made oaths and the punishment for breaking the Oath is a horrible deaf.

Sounds very much like the mafia.

Freemasons do not kill people who break their obligations. The punishment that these men face is: becoming a person not fit to be received into any society that values honour above wealth and advantage. It is written in Proverbs A good name is to be more desired than great riches, Favor is better than silver and gold (22:1).

regards
Gerard

[marpat]

But you would say that wouldnt you. Betraying the brotherhood is risky buissness could end up hanging over black friars bridge with your tounge cut out.

lol, as if. Im sure that I am petrified of a group of old men trying to do me over.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

lol, as if. Im sure that I am petrified of a group of old men trying to do me over.

Yea but we know some of these old men like the company of younger men;)

[scorpio]

lol, as if. Im sure that I am petrified of a group of old men trying to do me over.

Lucifer Horus in several of his posts had pictures of Freemasons. Most of these Freemasons looked over 70 years old:D Could these people be the kind of people that kill:D I think not:cool:
Gerard

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

We know its always the young men that are manipulated to fight the wars for the powerful elite. Normaly grey haired old men.

[scorpio]

Yea but we know some of these old men like the company of younger men;)

What are you suggesting by that statement?
Gerard

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I can see there is no point me wasting my time going round here in circles.

When money speaks the truth is silent:D

[scorpio]

We know its always the young men that are manipulated to fight the wars for the powerful elite. Normaly grey haired old men.

These old men can just about get on their masonic regalia; let alone manipulate young men to fight wars:D
Gerard

[marpat]

Yea but we know some of these old men like the company of younger men;)

Really? you make another serious allegation against people yet the truth is that people like that can be found in any walk of life. Again I accuse you of being a liar and deceiver.

[scorpio]

I can see there is no point me wasting my time going round here in circles.

When money speaks the truth is silent:D

When you make serious allegations about people it is wrong to do so without proof. It is easy to use the internet to spread wicked lies about people. It is easy to destroy people's reputations but very difficult for these innocent people to rebuild reputations. No decent person will accuse another person without proof.
Gerard

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Really? you make another serious allegation against people yet the truth is that people like that can be found in any walk of life. Again I accuse you of being a liar and deceiver.

I havent taken a life freatening oath to keep my mouth shut.

[marpat]

I havent taken a life freatening oath to keep my mouth shut.

Might be a good thing if you did though, it would stop you making all sorts of vile accusations about people. You are going to wear your rosary out accounting for all the sinful lies you keep spreading :D

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

When you make serious allegations about people it is wrong to do so without proof. It is easy to use the internet to spread wicked lies about people. It is easy to destroy people's reputations but very difficult for these innocent people to rebuild reputations. No decent person will accuse another person without proof.
Gerard

Well thats why I have a clear conscience.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Might be a good thing if you did though, it would stop you making all sorts of vile accusations about people. You are going to wear your rosary out accounting for all the sinful lies you keep spreading :D

Why is there much occult imagery in rap music videos these days?
Seems like people are putting freemasonry in the frame for corrupting young minds. Why do you think this is going on and why is it there is so many in the music industry pushing this satanic dark stuff on kids.

The videos about this are a real big hit on youtube and the web breaking down the imagery. Why are they putting freemasonry in the frame?

[marpat]

Why is there much occult imagery in rap music videos these days?
Seems like people are putting freemasonry in the frame for corrupting young minds. Why do you think this is going on and why is it there is so many in the music industry pushing this satanic dark stuff on kids.

The videos about this are a real big hit on youtube and the web breaking down the imagery. Why are they putting freemasonry in the frame?

because its awesome?

Christian based fear and paranoia strikes again!!!!

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

because its awesome?

Screwing up the minds of young kids incouraging gang banging drugs and violence.
Is that what you freemasons consider awesome?

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

because its awesome?

Christian based fear and paranoia strikes again!!!!

I am not a christian I thought we had already established that.

[marpat]

I am not a christian I thought we had already established that.

You might as well be, you push their anti-masonic agenda. Where do you think the original drive came from? christians who felt their religion was threatened by the popularity of freemasonry, thats where. You have just become a pawn in their manipulation and lies.

[marpat]

Screwing up the minds of young kids incouraging gang banging drugs and violence.
Is that what you freemasons consider awesome?

You are truly a joke, and a bad one at that.

As for drugs, Icke used drugs to trip out and communicate with a 'spirit' and many people in this forum consider such things to be tools of awakening. Now you say they mess people up? you cant have it both ways.

You claim that you have access to all sorts of actual masonic information online yet you come up with absurd ideas and try to tie them into freemasonry. I think if you actually knew anything about the moral conduct expected of masons then you would see that what you claim is ridiculous.

It would be no shock to find that a lot of the crap being circulated comes from those who tried to get in but were denied entry. Rejection can be such a bitter thing

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You might as well be, you push their anti-masonic agenda. Where do you think the original drive came from? christians who felt their religion was threatened by the popularity of freemasonry, thats where. You have just become a pawn in their manipulation and lies.

so whys theres so much masonic imagery in music aimed at young kids and teenagers glamourising gang violence, drug dealing and violence towards woman?

Do you have to be a christian to think this is a bad message to give to kids.

Looks at the amount of teenagers that have died in London from stabbings.

Do you really think this is awesome? I gave you a chance to defend freemasonrys honour. Clearly it has none.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You are truly a joke, and a bad one at that.

As for drugs, Icke used drugs to trip out and communicate with a 'spirit' and many people in this forum consider such things to be tools of awakening. Now you say they mess people up? you cant have it both ways.

You claim that you have access to all sorts of actual masonic information online yet you come up with absurd ideas and try to tie them into freemasonry. I think if you actually knew anything about the moral conduct expected of masons then you would see that what you claim is ridiculous.

It would be no shock to find that a lot of the crap being circulated comes from those who tried to get in but were denied entry. Rejection can be such a bitter thing

I am not david ickes spoke man. He took iaoska in south america with shamans he done it in a very responsible way.

I think the messages in these videos is somthing completely diffrent. Maybe you should do some research and find out whats going on. Freemasonry is really taking a beating.

[marpat]

so whys theres so much masonic imagery in music aimed at young kids and teenagers glamourising gang violence, drug dealing and violence towards woman?

Do you have to be a christian to think this is a bad message to give to kids.

Looks at the amount of teenagers that have died in London from stabbings.

Do you really think this is awesome? I gave you a chance to defend freemasonrys honour. Clearly it has none.

Perhaps it is part of an anti masonic agenda? dont you think that people who wish to attack them might actually create imagery intended to do just that? you are so dim its unreal. Perhaps you can show some of this imagary

As shown in this thread it is you who have no honour. You just throw shit and expect people to accept it. You have only one goal, to demonise freemasonry, yet you are just a pawn in that game. Not only do you lie and deceive but you introduce all sorts of random bullshit!!!

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Perhaps it is part of an anti masonic agenda? dont you think that people who wish to attack them might actually create imagery intended to do just that? you are so dim its unreal.

As shown in this thread it is you who have no honour. You just throw shit and expect people to accept it. You have only one goal, to demonise freemasonry, yet you are just a pawn in that game. Not only do you lie and deceive but you introduce all sorts of random bullshit!!!

I think that there could be a circle within a circle who maybe setting up freemasons to be the fall guys.

But I dont think freemasonry is completly innocent.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Freemasons have allowed themselfs to sink into disrupute.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I guess thats what happens when you dont know what your getting involved in. The old fabled Deal with the Devil.

[marpat]

Freemasons have allowed themselfs to sink into disrupute.

I dont think so. Why demonise an entire group for the actions of a few bad apples? in the UK, Freemasonry is the second biggest donator to charity after the National lottery, yet people try to condemn this as a cover up!!! it seems that even though they do immense good people want to pull them down for it. Now when Icke was asking for financial donations to help him fight his court battles people thought this was worthy of donations!!! so when they (freemasons) donate for the benefit of others people make it sound bad yet when Icke asks for money for his own use people think its worthwhile. How does that work

[marpat]

I guess thats what happens when you dont know what your getting involved in. The old fabled Deal with the Devil.

Black magic is effective but very short lived and self destructive. Anybody with real occult knowledge knows this, even some accused of black magic, which freemasonry is most certainly not.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Black magic is effective but very short lived and self destructive. Anybody with real occult knowledge knows this, even some accused of black magic, which freemasonry is most certainly not.

I was not using this statement in the esoteric sense.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

I dont think so. Why demonise an entire group for the actions of a few bad apples? in the UK, Freemasonry is the second biggest donator to charity after the National lottery, yet people try to condemn this as a cover up!!! it seems that even though they do immense good people want to pull them down for it. Now when Icke was asking for financial donations to help him fight his court battles people thought this was worthy of donations!!! so when they (freemasons) donate for the benefit of others people make it sound bad yet when Icke asks for money for his own use people think its worthwhile. How does that work

Because freemasonry protects the bad apples with is secretive organistation.
You claim not to be a group of buissiness men you must be pulling in some serious money. More money than cancer research, the macmilian fund, Oxfam, sue ryder etc etc

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

You dont know what David Icke does with his money. And to be fair he gives all his time to what he belives in. Its a lot easier to give money than all your time.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Marpat no one can belive anything you or your fellow masons say because of the oaths you have taken. So I will no longer knowingly take part in conversation with another freemason on this forum. Its a complete waste of time you deny real peoples experience deny all the evidence on the internet and tell lies and slander people to cover for your secret society. You cant get blood out of a stone and you cant get the truth from a freemason.:(

[humason]

Do your own research its not hard to work out. Freemasons like to put there emblems on things. Its like a gang sign.

Huh, so, basically, you've got nothing?

[marpat]

Because freemasonry protects the bad apples with is secretive organistation.
You claim not to be a group of buissiness men you must be pulling in some serious money. More money than cancer research, the macmilian fund, Oxfam, sue ryder etc etc

Can you prove this? I know for a fact that freemasons who break the law are not protected by other members by their oaths as we are expected to actually uphold the laws of the land.

You might find a lot of money comes from the average mason who contributes a small amount for the giving to good causes. If some of those are successful business men then so what? Icke is a succesful business man who gives nothing to charity, so what is so good about him?

[christ4life]

Freemasonry is a fraternity of men of different religions, races and economic circumstances. We all share a belief in the brotherhood of man and worship the Most High aka as God. Freemasons are a society that has nothing to hide and is open to men who want to enjoy the company of other men who believe in God.

Freemasons over the Wolrd raise vast sums of moneny for charitable causes and strive to make this World a better place for all people to live in.

regards
Gerard the friendly Freemason:cool:

Evil always hides behind good works. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Throw christians into it just to make it look bad, and hide your actions. A true christian would have nothing to do with this. Enjoy the company of other men?:confused: As in screwing each other you mean.

[marpat]

Marpat no one can belive anything you or your fellow masons say because of the oaths you have taken. So I will no longer knowingly take part in conversation with another freemason on this forum. Its a complete waste of time you deny real peoples experience deny all the evidence on the internet and tell lies and slander people to cover for your secret society. You cant get blood out of a stone and you cant get the truth from a freemason.:(

Well this is another lie by you!! it seems you are making a bad habit of being a total liar.

I am sure I never took an oath to lie for people. Its a waste of tiume telling you that because you live in a world of fantasy. You are going to avoid talking to people like me because we put you straight, question your lies, and show you for what you are. Far easier for you to just talk to those who believe anything you say and ask no questions.

You speak of real peoples experiences. Have you any, or do you just blindly go along with what others have said. How do you know that people who make all sorts of claims were actually members, or that they were telling the truth and not just making destructive statements up to attack a group they may have been thrown out of?

[marpat]

Evil always hides behind good works. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Throw christians into it just to make it look bad, and hide your actions. A true christian would have nothing to do with this. Enjoy the company of other men?:confused: As in screwing each other you mean.

For a supposed good christian you have a seedy mind. Not shocking though given the reputation of the clergy

Good is good, no matter what people like you claim.

[twilighterheart]

This thread is getting popular.:rolleyes:

[christ4life]

For a supposed good christian you have a seedy mind. Not shocking though given the reputation of the clergy

Good is good, no matter what people like you claim.

I don't go to churches because they follow what they want to follow not the true Bible. Good actions don't necissarily mean the person has a good heart. Only God knows the persons heart. You can't mix good, and evil. Judge people by their fruit, and freemasonry produces rotten fruit.

[twilighterheart]

I don't go to churches because they follow what they want to follow not the true Bible. Good actions don't necessarily mean the person has a good heart. Only God knows the persons heart. You can't mix good, and evil. Judge people by their fruit, and freemasonry produces rotten fruit.

You know righteousness is just other 'word' for strength.

'Good' is not on the same level has 'evil', tried bad instead.

[marpat]

I don't go to churches because they follow what they want to follow not the true Bible. Good actions don't necissarily mean the person has a good heart. Only God knows the persons heart. You can't mix good, and evil. Judge people by their fruit, and freemasonry produces rotten fruit.

You condradict yourself. You say you can mix good and evil then say good actions doesnt mean a good heart!!

Who made you the judge of other people? you make a claim that only god knows the hearts of men then you have the gall to make a general statement about an entire group of people. It would be like me claiming that christianity produces child abusers and murderers based on the acts of an evil minoirty.

[christ4life]

You condradict yourself. You say you can mix good and evil then say good actions doesnt mean a good heart!!

Who made you the judge of other people? you make a claim that only god knows the hearts of men then you have the gall to make a general statement about an entire group of people. It would be like me claiming that christianity produces child abusers and murderers based on the acts of an evil minoirty.

If you looked at what I said I didn't say you can mix good, and evil. I don't know you personally but I know that freemasonry is not about God of the Bible. I don't know why you are in there it could be because you think its good. The egyptian symbolism associated with it that has been talked alot about on this forum for starters is about worshipping many Gods. Who I believe are actually demons. Former angels who went with Satan.