PDA

View Full Version : The Real Jesus?


Pages : 1 2 3 [4]

phildee3
26-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Yeshua IS YHWH and the Son of YHWH.

His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14.



But in Exodus 6:3, YHVH admits to being an imposter:

"...and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JHVH was I not known to them."

gold
26-03-2008, 07:08 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/alexiany/3D_emoticon_226.gif

synergy777
26-03-2008, 07:41 PM
true but yashuah/yeshua/jeus means yah is salvation,

y in hebrew equals j in english, there is no letter j in the hebrew alphabet.

hence halleujah- praise be to yah. also look at african slaves, they did not know english when transported to africa, and yet in their songs/negro spirituals, they sang about yah.

although i think calling him/her father/mother like yashuah did is better, it strengthens the connection.

phildee3
26-03-2008, 08:23 PM
true but yashuah/yeshua/jeus means yah is salvation,



I'm not sure, but it looks like yah means deity (a "god"),

and yashuah/yeshua/jesus means the deity who saves/redeems.

So who is yah weh?

synergy777
26-03-2008, 08:27 PM
yah is the hebrew rendition, thus i say, say father/mother/source/creator etc, as there is only one father/mother/source/creator of us.

phildee3
26-03-2008, 09:06 PM
yah is the hebrew rendition, thus i say, say father/mother/source/creator etc, as there is only one father/mother/source/creator of us.



There is nothing to support your assertion that creator and source are one and the same, except for almost seventeen hundred years of blind, unquestioning belief in the dogma of the Roman tyrants who say it is so.

It shouldn't be necessary to remind you that the Romans crucified our lord in an attempt to stop the spread of his teachings. When it was clear that they had failed to do so they adopted Christianity in order to distort the teachings to keep the people in slavery, through fear and ignorance, and not because they had "converted" and wanted their subjects to experience freedom through his love!

synergy777
26-03-2008, 09:20 PM
There is nothing to support your assertion that creator and source are one and the same

so please enlighten me to the truth then. are the creator and source different entites then, i would like to know.

synergy777
26-03-2008, 09:56 PM
kalki

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15124&page=2

read the essene article on page 1 of the kalki thread

from page 1

http://www.researchersoftruth.org/StoaLessons.htm

Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, the God-man, was preaching all this to His disciple-healers. He didn't have only 12 disciples, He had thousands of Israelites and Essenes teaching them healing and preaching them the Reality. Talking about His Father and our Father, Joshua Emmanuel the Godman, used to call Him "Allaha".

Now, what you call Jesus, He and His family and most of His disciples were Essenes, they were not Jews. What were the Essenes? The Essenes appear in Egypt as descendants of the worshippers, Israelites and Greeks (in Egypt), believing in Aton, the one Spirit-God which the pharaoh Ankhenaton, breaking the idols, declared as the real God. For centuries there was a fight between the old religion of the gods, the idols, and the one God, the Spirit-God, the God of the heavens and of the earth.

So, we find the Essenes in Egypt. They included the Greek-speaking Israelites who remained in Egypt and also the Egyptians. The language the Essenes were speaking was Greek and Aramaic. The Aramaic language came from the Egyptian language. So, these Essenes were in Egypt, but also in Palestine, in Cyprus, in Asia Minor and in Mesopotamia. They existed worshipping the one God the Father, the benevolent Father.

At that time they had three religions. The Greek idolaters worshipping idols, false gods, the Greeks and Romans. Then we have the Essenes believing in a God, calling him in Greek "Theos" and in Aramaic "Allaha". They believed in a God the Father in Spirit, the merciful, loving God. And the Israelites who were worshipping and believing in one Spirit-God also, but a God of vengeance.

The difference between the Essenes and the Israelites was that the Essenes believed in Allaha, a benevolent Father, while the Israelites believed in a powerful vengeful God, who was claiming blood sacrifices

armoured_amazon
27-03-2008, 01:10 AM
But in Exodus 6:3, YHVH admits to being an imposter:

"...and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JHVH was I not known to them."

That does not denote being an imposter. When Yeshua rose from His tomb, His friends did not recognise Him either. God reveals portions as and when.

octopusrex
27-03-2008, 04:04 AM
Nunca leyeron de los Egypcios?

pilgrim
27-03-2008, 04:23 AM
so please enlighten me to the truth then. are the creator and source different entites then, i would like to know.
According to Vedic Knowledge they are different.

The Source (Krsna/Vishnu) 'gives birth' to the Creator (Lord Brahma) and provides him with all the ingredients & knowledge necessary for Material Creation.

See Here:
Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 1: Creation, Chapter 3:
http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/en
(you can click the verse number for commentary)

octopusrex
27-03-2008, 04:31 AM
Y'know.. I just finished a big Egyptian "mythology" book.

Clearly, the Egyptians and the Hindus knew the rules of the game better than ... most.

armoured_amazon
27-03-2008, 08:26 AM
Y'know.. I just finished a big Egyptian "mythology" book.

Clearly, the Egyptians and the Hindus knew the rules of the game better than ... most.

Clearly your future is secure as long as you hold on to your 'educational books'.

*smirk*

ANYWAY, I'm outta here. I made myself a promise that I would endeavour to avoid fruitless discourse with bitter people and I'm starting to slide. See ya!

phildee3
27-03-2008, 10:16 AM
are the creator and source different entites then, i would like to know.



Yes.
"Source" is all-that-is.
Before creation, it existed as potential.
It is infinite and had no beginning.
Creation had a beginning (by definition).
Creator eminated from the all-that-is but is not the all-that-is.

Creation exists outside of creator.
How can the all-that-is be creator?
It would no longer be the all-that-is because there would then be something outside of it!

This truth is expressed in the Vedas and also in original Christianity (pre-Roman) which was gnostic.
Look up gnosticism/demiurge/yahweh, etc. but beware of neo-gnosticism. It can sometimes add errors to traditional gnosticism.
Read much, but find the truth within yourself by meditating on your studies. This is the way of gnosis (knowledge of the divine). It is within you.

phildee3
27-03-2008, 10:20 AM
Y'know.. I just finished a big Egyptian "mythology" book.

Clearly, the Egyptians and the Hindus knew the rules of the game better than ... most.



...and the early Christians.
Jesus was in Egypt during his formative years.
In his late teens/early 20s he studied in India.

octopusrex
27-03-2008, 04:37 PM
I never worry about the future.

To much to be in the present!

synergy777
27-03-2008, 09:16 PM
pilgrim and phildee thank you very much, any more links/pdfs etc.

this is starting to make sense.

synergy777
27-03-2008, 10:36 PM
SB 1.3.23: In the nineteenth and twentieth incarnations, the Lord advented Himself as Lord Balarāma and Lord Kṛṣṇa in the family of Vṛṣṇi [the Yadu dynasty], and by so doing He removed the burden of the world.

{removed the burden, like yashuah, took the sins of the world. also the yadu, could it be yadu/yahudi/yudah=judah)

SB 1.3.24: Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.

SB 1.3.25: Thereafter, at the conjunction of two yugas, the Lord of the creation will take His birth as the Kalki incarnation and become the son of Viṣṇu Yaśā. At this time the rulers of the earth will have degenerated into plunderers.

(it is in this age we will have the kalki avatar)

pilgrim
28-03-2008, 12:22 AM
SB 1.3.23: In the nineteenth and twentieth incarnations, the Lord advented Himself as Lord Balarāma and Lord Kṛṣṇa in the family of Vṛṣṇi [the Yadu dynasty], and by so doing He removed the burden of the world.
SB 1.3.25: Thereafter, at the conjunction of two yugas, the Lord of the creation will take His birth as the Kalki incarnation and become the son of Viṣṇu Yaśā. At this time the rulers of the earth will have degenerated into plunderers.

(it is in this age we will have the kalki avatar)
Kalki appears at the END of this age (427,000 years from now).
The Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.25) says he will appear at the CONJUNCTION of two yugas.
The Conjunction is the point where the two yugas (Kali & Satya) meet.

:) Please see this post:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=316233&postcount=18

octopusrex
28-03-2008, 04:35 AM
Time is relative. It can be speeded up or slowed down.

pilgrim
28-03-2008, 04:45 AM
.. The King of Quips :rolleyes:

octopusrex
28-03-2008, 05:17 AM
How many Kings have crowned themselves?

How many Emperors?

How many Tlatoanis?

synergy777
29-03-2008, 11:45 PM
kalki

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...t=15124&page=2

read the essene article on page 1 of the kalki thread

from page 1

http://www.researchersoftruth.org/StoaLessons.htm

article in full

http://www.researchersoftruth.org/StoaLessons.htm

MASTERING THE MIND

(The Essenes and the One Spirit-God)

Lecture given by Daskalos on 16 OCTOBER 1989 Nicosia Cyprus

Our Father, Thou art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our transgressions as we forgive those who are transgressing against us. Lead us while being in temptation and deliver us from evil, for Thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, forever.

Absolute Infinite Beingness, God. Everlasting Life, Love and Mercy. Manifesting Yourself in Yourself as Your Total Wisdom and Your Almightiness in Your Omnipresence, enlighten our minds to understand You as the Truth. Clean our hearts to reflect Your Love towards You and towards all other human beings. Amen.

The Enlightened Ones for centuries taught the humanity what our most beloved Lord Joshua Emmanuel, the Godman, had confirmed. Confirmed - how? By just saying, speaking and preaching? And in this way too, but mainly by His examples and His works in wonders and miracles, proving to us that our material body and our other bodies, the so-called psychical and noetical bodies, are not our real Self, but that we are the off springs of Allaha (as Jesus used to call God), gods. That's the Reality. What He taught them, the intelligences will give us the lesson today.

Now, what we believe is that the Absolute Infinite Reality is the Absolute Infinite Be-ness, and Beingness, we call God. What we know as characteristics of this Absolute Beingness now, is that apart from its Self-Sufficiency in Him there is the Will/Pleasure of manifesting Itself in Itself. How do we know that? By just examining, learning, studying the phenomena of life in which we can see the Total Wisdom and Its Almightiness of this Infinite Beingness, and Its great Love to all of Its creation and to us human beings. What is the Absolute Be-ness, God the Father, nobody can know - as a human being.

Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, the God-man, was preaching all this to His disciple-healers. He didn't have only 12 disciples, He had thousands of Israelites and Essenes teaching them healing and preaching them the Reality. Talking about His Father and our Father, Joshua Emmanuel the Godman, used to call Him "Allaha".

Now, what you call Jesus, He and His family and most of His disciples were Essenes, they were not Jews. What were the Essenes? The Essenes appear in Egypt as descendants of the worshippers, Israelites and Greeks (in Egypt), believing in Aton, the one Spirit-God which the pharaoh Ankhenaton, breaking the idols, declared as the real God. For centuries there was a fight between the old religion of the gods, the idols, and the one God, the Spirit-God, the God of the heavens and of the earth.

So, we find the Essenes in Egypt. They included the Greek-speaking Israelites who remained in Egypt and also the Egyptians. The language the Essenes were speaking was Greek and Aramaic. The Aramaic language came from the Egyptian language. So, these Essenes were in Egypt, but also in Palestine, in Cyprus, in Asia Minor and in Mesopotamia. They existed worshipping the one God the Father, the benevolent Father.

At that time they had three religions. The Greek idolaters worshipping idols, false gods, the Greeks and Romans. Then we have the Essenes believing in a God, calling him in Greek "Theos" and in Aramaic "Allaha". They believed in a God the Father in Spirit, the merciful, loving God. And the Israelites who were worshipping and believing in one Spirit-God also, but a God of vengeance. The difference between the Essenes and the Israelites was that the Essenes believed in Allaha, a benevolent Father, while the Israelites believed in a powerful vengeful God, who was claiming blood sacrifices.

They both believed in one and the same Allaha, but, while the Essenes were considering the Israelites their brothers, the Israelites were considering the Essenes heretics. Why? Because they made reforms - no blood sacrifices. Not the God of Moses who in the old times was even claiming human sacrifices. You may find it in the Old Testament. Ibrahim or Abraham had to sacrifice Ishak or Isaac. Then later, another biblical personality had to sacrifice his only daughter by burning. Reading the Old Testament you may find such cases. So, there was a great difference between the Allaha of the Essenes and the Allaha of the Israelites.

Now, though the Essenes were loving the Israelites, the Israelites were considering them heretics. They were killing them by stoning and, as they have done to Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, by crucifying them. Of course, this crucifixion of the Godman created, after a certain time, the claim that Joshua Emmanuel the Christ was a man who lost his powers, treating the crucifixion as the weakness of a human being. Even Caiaphas was provoking Him in front of the guards. He heard all, he acknowledged the miracles that Joshua was doing, and he was not helping himself at that time. But, for the Essenes it was not the weakness of a human being, of the Son of Man, it was the triumph of the Godman.

If you read the New Testament you'll find in many cases that He spoke about His crucifixion. In one case, when Petros asked Him, "Why do you not go to Syria not to be in the power of the Jews, of the Sanhedrin?", He said, "It is for this hour that I have come, to prove that what I am teaching is true. The material body is not me. Your material body is not you. Don't be afraid of those who can kill your material body, they can do nothing to your Soul Ego-Self. Here is this body. They'll crucify it." They wounded His body very badly as he had foreseen and foretold. "In three days I will heal it and raise it up". Which he did. So, he had proved practically the truth of His saying and He remained with His disciples and those believing in Him for another fifty days, showing the signs from the wounds on the legs and eating with them. "Here is my material body. They have crucified it, but that is not myself."

Do the Christians nowadays know the truth about that great, very great lesson given to the human beings? Did He not value His material body in claiming its right value? He had called the material body the temple of God. A great honor, for God the Father is in your body (also) and in your personality as your Ego-Self, as your Soul. So, He had preached the whole Truth.

I'll give a lesson which He gave to his disciple-healers, both Israelites and Essenes. He said, "My most beloved ones, offsprings of Allaha, of our heavenly Father." He was preaching in Greek for the Essenes and in Aramaic for the Israelites at the same time, saying "Tekhnateu", God in the Heavens in Greek, and in Aramaic, "Ben ai Allaha abri batishmaya". He said, "God the Father had sent you as Spirit-Soul Egos, part of your real Self, as a ray of light, to live as human beings. And an egofied Metathrone became your Guardian Archangel." Everyone of you, all of us, have a Guardian Archangel. This we should have in mind. And then, "Allaha, expressing and manifesting Its Will/Pleasure to create a human being, said to the Holy Archangels of the Elements, to the seven orders of the Archangels, 'Let us create man,'" Create? So, the human being is a creature, but, with a particularity now, "'to our image and according to our likeness.'" - being God himself.

And so, these Holy Archangels co-vibrated the Will/Pleasure of God and created the human being. I repeat, "to the image and according to the likeness of Allaha" - not less. And what did the Godman gave us as an instruction and a persuasion? "Be ye perfect as perfect is your Heavenly Father." Very enlightening words.

Now, God said to the Holy Archangels, "Materialize the human form", by using the Mind vitality, as matter, as ether, as substance, as Super substance, and another three divine states, creating the material body of man, its etheric double, the psychical body or the emotional body, with its etheric double, the noetical body with its etheric double. These five bodies are mortal. They are changing all the time in the Worlds of Existence. But, the other two are imperishable, it is our Spirit Ego body, with its etheric double. Our Soul Self.

So, a human being is a Spirit Ego-Self, but he or she is also a Soul Ego-Self, God again, immortal, never changing. What's the difference between the Spirit Ego-Self and the Soul Ego-Self? I'll give an example, but a very poor one since we cannot have any better. Say we have a window, without anything on it. The Sun rays are coming, passing through the window, and leaving the shape of the window on the floor. The light of the Sun coming to the window is the same as the light passing through the window. There is nothing on the window to change it. Yet, the light from the window to the floor is getting the form of the window now. The light from the Sun to the window is our Spirit Ego-Self, God. The light from the window to the floor is our Soul Ego-Self. And the light on the floor? Our personality self. The personality self is always changing.

The law governing the Worlds of Existence (the noetical world, our noetical body, the psychical worlds, our so-called psychical body, the etheric doubles and the material body) are dual. This is the law of the Worlds of Existence. Continuously changing, it is giving us the sense of death, because our material body will not continue for a long time. But, our material body is dying every day and is regenerated, as our human body. The material body began from the spermatozoa, a baby in the belly of our mother, a girl or a boy, growing, growing, growing, to an adult, to a young man or a young woman, a middle aged man or woman, then to an old man or an old woman. We just have to go along the way of our human possibilities. To go that way is our possibility. We have to go through it. And so, St Paul said, "Every day I am dying." And every day the Holy Archangels of the Elements are regenerating us. What does the orthodox science say today? That nothing remains in a material body - in every seven years everything is changed till the material body gets old. But, our material body is not our Self, it is not even our personality self.

I said in many lessons, as matter and substance the material bodies of all human beings are the same. Studying the body of a woman or the body of a man, I know what is the body of every woman and every man. And if the personality of a human being was the product of the material body, all women and all men would be the same and this is not so. I said, studying the bodies of a man or of a woman, you know the bodies of every man and every woman, but each man and each woman have a different personality, are expressing in the phenomena of life a different self.

Is that time-and-place self, our personality, our real Self? Yes and no. What is in our personal self is changing all the time, our emotions, our desires, our weaknesses, and our thoughts. Unceasingly changing. And that is not our real Self. All that is composing our personality's egoism, because the egoism (and the personality) is the sum-total of elementals we are making, and these elementals are not ourselves. In order to live, this personal self is in need of our real Self, which is in it.

How can we distinguish between our Self and that which is not our Self, to know who and what we are? In our system for the Research of the Truth we give certain exercises: introspection, looking within, and using the Mind vitality in the proper way, exercising our divine nature which is observation and will power. Is there no will power in the personality of a man? No! The personality of a man is showing his obstinacy and stupidity only, not the divine will power. No one, using the obstinacy of his personality, can do anything. Yet, the Godman, using His divine will power, could materialize the Mind vitality into fish and bread and feed five thousand men (women and children not counted). On another occasion He fed four thousand. These two cases are in the Bible, in the New Testament. And I am telling you that He had done that many, many times. This is the will power, the divine will power. It has nothing to do with human obstinacy.

Now, somebody may say, "We have this human obstinacy, but don't we have the will power also?" We as a personality? No! When you unfold your Ego-Self, your Soul Ego-Self you can express and manifest this will power, which is the characteristic of your Spirit-Soul Ego-Self. Can we do what Joshua Emmanuel the Christ had done? What did He say? "Yes, He who believes in me, in what I am teaching, can do what I am doing and even greater things than what I am doing," because - all of us are the offspring of God, of His Father and our Father.

Coming again to what Joshua Emmanuel the Christ said to His disciples and healers. Some of you hearing the word Allaha don't like it. But that is wrong. Why? Because the word Allaha in the Old Egyptian and in the Aramaic language is a whole sentence. Al means God, la means the Will/Pleasure of God, and kha means the Divine Plan and God's Will/Pleasure. In what language can you find all those meanings in just one word? So, the Essenes were calling God Theos or Allaha. Now, Elohim means God in Its Plurality. Why? Why one word, elohim? Because in Its Plurality God is still in Its Oneness. Everything has its own meaning.

Now Joshua said, that God or Allaha is Life - the Inextinguishable Light. But what's Light? That is not what we see with these two balls full of water, our eyes. It's much, much, much more. So, He spoke about Life-Light, and He said that all the seven heavens or the Worlds of Existence had been created by the Holy Archangels of the Elements (I said all the Worlds of Existence and what is in them) by the Mind vitality, Life-Light. And He said that this Inextinguishable divine Life-Light has a luminosity of various degrees of brightness. And each variety of this luminosity-brightness gives us one of the seven Worlds of Existence.

One variety of this luminosity-brightness is giving us the vegetable kingdom, with all its beauty, trees and flowers. Another variety of luminosity-brightness (Life), is giving us the animal kingdom, rich in the phenomena of life. Yet another variety of this Light, luminosity-brightness, is giving us other things in nature, the ethereal and the psychical worlds, and then another, giving us the noetical world and whatever is in it. So, this variety of luminosity of Life-Light is giving us the seven heavens.

Now, we have spoken about matter and we talked about the vegetable kingdom, the different varieties of luminosity of Light, we spoke about the animal kingdom, again another degree of luminosity of Light, about things in the ethereal and in the psychical kingdoms, and in the noetical world. What about the human beings now? What kind of Life-Light is in a human being? He said, "I say to you, you are Gods. All of you are sons of the Almighty," and, "the kingdom of the heavens is in you," in your Spirit-Soul Ego-Self. That's why we are gods.

This is a great, great theory, yet, Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, the Godman, gave it practically. "You are now my disciples, my healers and you should know that all the degrees of brightnesses, of luminosity, are manifested in you in what we call consciousness." He spoke about sensitivity and sensibility, in the material things - they are sensitive to cold and to light. We have the sensitivity and the sensibility, in our bodies, in our muscles. He spoke about our subconsciousness. And in-between the sensitivity and the sensibility and our subconsciousness He spoke about the instinct.

So, we have the sensitivity and the sensibility in matter and in the vegetable kingdom. And He spoke about the subconsciousness. Now, the animal kingdom has the instinct and something we cannot say is even the subconsciousness. The human beings have the subconsciousness and I am telling you that ninety percent of the human beings living on the planet today are living subconsciously. Yet, there is the waking conscious-ness. How many are expressing this waking consciousness and know what they are doing? How many? Very few. Joshua Emmanuel showed us the way to unfold this waking consciousness in us and reach the self-consciousness. (Concerning our personality-self we have the false luminosity and brightness.) We have to unfold in us our real Self, which means the real self-consciousness. And He said that we should develop, unfold in us, the Self-Superconsciousness. How?

Yes, Allaha, God the Father, has given the five senses to our body, to us. These five senses are giving the awareness, taking in us the presentations from what the Holy Archangels have created around us, the material world, though - we are living in this material world instinctively and subconsciously. Apart from these five senses, do we have other senses? Seeing but not with these two little balls full of water which are our eyes? To put it more plain, can we expand our self-consciousness in space? He was doing it, and He even taught Philipos. Some of the listeners today know about this spirit-power, call it out-of-the-material-body experience or exosomatosis (a Greek word). When He was in Jerusalem, Philipos and Nathanael, His first cousin, were in Bethsaida, where their home was. And Philipos said to Nathanael, "We found the Meshaha," the Messiah, and so they Went to Jerushalaim. There, Joshua said to Philipos, "When you were under the fig tree with Nathanael I have seen you and I have heard you," though, many kilometers far away. Which means expansion, extension of self-consciousness in place-space.

He taught that to Philipos and to the other disciples also. Only that? Reading the actions of the apostles you read that Philipos, while being in Jerusalem, had left his material body there, materialized a body many kilometers far away from Jerusalem, under the border with Egypt, and sat near the carriage of the bodyguard of the Queen of Sheba, who was reading the chapter of Isaiah from the Old Testament. He materialized himself by the side of the Queen's bodyguard and then, self-consciously, asked him, "Do you understand what you are reading?" Just think of that Negro Ethiopian seeing a human being materialized near him on his cart. He answered Philipos, "How can I understand, master, without somebody explaining it to me?" Then Philipos spoke to him about Joshua Emmanuel the Christ and told him that to save himself he should be baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (This is what the master had instructed us.) And then, Philipos came down from the cart, baptized the Ethiopian in the nearby water, and dematerialized his body.

This means, we have to unfold, what I call, the Superconsciousness in our personal self in order to enter the fifth heaven. And then, what more? Expanding yourself and concentrating self-consciously, to be able to see and know, not by learning now, but by at-one-ment with what is there. Can you imagine what kind of self-consciousness is that? Let us call it Self-Superconsciousness. This means that in this heaven you have to be able to know things by attunement. What's attunement? Being in the Worlds of Existence, properly co-vibrating yet being two.

What are the next two heavens of our Spirit-Soul Ego-Self? What did Joshua Emmanuel the Christ say? "You must unfold your real Self to enter the state of the divine Oneness, by oneness or attunement, But, this state is not mundane or worldly. It's divine, which means, you have returned back home. Yes."

Have human beings since Joshua Emmanuel the Christ reached this state? Yes, many, but ... There is a burning "but". There are certain Spirit-Soul Egos who can be in at-one-ment with God and with the Godman, but - what is the Will/Pleasure of the Godman, of the beloved One (for me, the most beloved One)? This paradise is not for us. What did he say? "He who wants to follow me should shoulder his cross and follow me."

So, those who reached there, some of them who gave themselves to Him, have come down to the material plane, even in the darkest hell, to serve their brethren, the human beings. Is that sacrifice? No! Because, even in the darkest hell there is Light. They are not far away from Him, because, they are self-consciously in the Omnipresence of the Father. Everything is in God the Father. Can you do that? Can you unfold within yourself this kind of self-consciousness? Yes, why not - all of you are offsprings of God.

So, human beings are living subconsciously now. But, whether we want it or not, according to the parable of the Prodigal Son, sooner or later we have to be back home, to our divine nature as Spirit-Soul Ego-Selves, and - we have to work on it. How? God has given us a perfect human body, built up and sustained by the Holy Archangels of the Elements. Yet, you know very little about that material body unless you open a book of anatomy. That body is under the supervision of the Holy Archangels of the Elements. A ray of our Spirit-Soul Ego-Self created our time-and-place mortal self and we have been given the psychical substance and the noetical substance and Super substance, the Mind vitality. What have we done with that? Unbridled desires, unbridled and uncontrolled emotions, making dirty what you call love with that stupid expression of what you call life, having in it fighting, jealousies and all that. We have made a great misuse of this Mind substance by creating bad elementals, human demons composing our personality. Yet, the heart, the pulse of Life of our personality, is our Soul Being. Now, we have been given the Mind vitality as thought to work with it, to reach understanding, knowing and wisdom, but - what have we done with it? We have made the thought a slave of unbridled emotions.

So, it's our duty to do what? To try to make a proper psychical body and unfold our self-consciousness in it. But first of all, we have to unfold our self-consciousness on the material plane in the material body and to form our noetical body, control our thoughts, become masters of our thoughts. Now, by unfolding more of our Soul self-consciousness, manifesting our divine power we call attunement, unfolding our Self-Superconsciousness in at-one-ment with the divine - what do we find? That we are all gods, sons of the Almighty.

We have the means of knowing the truth and there is no excuse. We have it in our nature - observation and the capacity for knowing. A human being is not an animal. Every human being is a Spirit-Soul Being, a God.

I get from the minds of some of you, "Do I have to sacrifice my personality? It's painful but I like it." You are going to lose nothing, because every incarnation with the virtues and the vices, with the good actions and the wickedness, that total collection of the elementals, is living, is a living form. Behind you, in all your past lives, nothing is lost. There is a living total of all your experiences (elementals) in the Cosmic Memory. Living? Of course, because it is made of the Mind vitality.

And when you reach that state of "Be ye perfect as perfect is your Heavenly Father," you will see that in every incarnation you have written, say, a book. You have it in the Cosmic Memory like in a library on its shelves. You are like a writer who is writing books. Who is preventing you to get a volume and go through it again? And reading it, you can enjoy what is enjoyable and what is painful, by the grace of God now, it will not affect you any more, because - you have got rid of those vices.

So, when you reach perfection, you are not going to lose anything. You are not going to lose your Present-Day Personality that is so precious to you now. You will find, inside you, all the volumes you have written in all your past incarnations. In perfection you are gaining, not losing. You are gaining, because, nothing made of the Mind vitality, no thoughts, no emotions, no desires are lost.

When you reach the attunement, you can attune yourself to any one of your incarnations. Can we, by at-one-ment, enter into that living total elemental of our past personality? If you wish to, you can. But, why would you? Is not the attunement seeing and knowing? Anyhow, it's nothing that I wish to do myself. Attunement is worthwhile with Joshua Emmanuel the Christ and with God and not with past elementals. And then, you can use the at-one-ment for God and the attunement for anything you like. But, you can never do that unless you reach the highest level of Self-Superconsciousness. You can do it. You can become the master of visualization, in introspection, and of the right meditation, manifesting your divine state of observation. The Mind vitality is given to you as your daily bread. Use it properly to feed yourself and to make your psychical and noetical body, just as you are making with it (by eating and drinking) your material body. And Joshua Emmanuel said that it is not only with bread that a man should be fed, but with the Mind vitality from our Heavenly Father. Who is where? Everywhere and inside your Spirit-Soul Ego-Self. So, stop living as the animal life around you. The Seekers of the Truth should live as human beings, as Archangels, and as gods.

Now, we'll make an exercise.

I'll use the English words for that which Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, our beloved master, said in Greek and in Aramaic.

Relax completely. The body is yours, but not you. The Holy Archangels and the Holy Spirit are sustaining it now and they give you the right to use it as your own. It is your own. It is the temple of God, of God and your Self Being. Make this temple of God a congregation of angelic elementals. Take away from this temple all human demons as evil elementals, jealousy, evil behavior, weaknesses, unbridled desires and emotions. Keep as a congregation in the temple of this body the human angels, good elementals. Create good elementals in the light of love. In every temple there is the holy of the hollies. Make your heart the holy of the hollies of God. In the holy of the hollies, there is also the altar. Make it in your heart. The Inextinguishable Light-Life is burning on the altar. The Holy Archangels are living in your heart. You are living too. It is the pulse of Life. Now, light another lamp, your personality's love to God and to all human beings around you, and live with these two flames of light in your love on the altar of your heart - love to God and love to all human beings. Don't allow that flame to flicker. It is a perfect light.

Yeah.

Tomorrow the lesson will be on elementals and how to construct human angels.

its a lot to take in, i will read this a couple more times and give feedback.

pilgrim
30-03-2008, 12:06 AM
synergy777, Thanks so much for posting the MASTERING THE MIND article. :)
Excellent! I would urge everyone to read it in full.
Have you got any more like that?

synergy777
30-03-2008, 12:10 AM
click on the link and there are other links.

the links in blue and the ones on the navigation menu on the left hand side of the screen.

i used this article before on the kalki thread, about the essenes, showing similarities between hinduism/buddhism/christianity.

i have to read the article again and again, as the data is mindboggling.

i want to read it, understand it, and then re write the concepts in a simple manner, so everyone can understand them.

also thanks to mickyjay, his info kicked it off.

synergy777
01-04-2008, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by synergy777

i think the messiah/annoitment is an awakening in "every person" to the real multi dimensional nature of reality around them, and to their true spiritual nature.

as we are all spirits, then we all have the same potential.

in fact i would say when you awake, you realise that everybody is the same, they just don't know it yet.

people are constantly conditioned to devalue themselves, due to education/society/media/religion. they are not good enough, they are not good looking enough, not clever enough, not rich enough, they should dress in this way, talk in this manner etc.

people are always told what they are not

or what they should be.

people need to be told what they are, as in a spirit, with unlimited potential, that no man/woman is better or worse than they are, that they should be happy being themselves and celebrate/cherish their uniqueness.

the great teachers throughout time, came to remind us of what we really are,

the same as them.

we just didn't believe them

and the elite didn't want them to tell us.




http://www.hermes-press.com/evolution_next.htm

Evolution's Next Step

Organs come into being as a result of the need for specific organs (Rumi).

The human being's organism is producing a new complex of organs in response to such a need. *

By Norman D. Livergood

"When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk: culture-death is a clear possibility."

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death


A violence-based society attempts to destroy all spiritual values: art, compassion, intelligence, creativity, community. A sub-human cabal is forcing people to concentrate our machine-development capabilities on building weapons of destruction. That branch of human evolution has reached the point of no return--leading to the ultimate devolution of humankind. The twentieth century was the bloodiest in human history.


The Next Step in Human Evolution: the Supra-Human


Though ordinary humans are rapidly losing the ability to understand reality, a small contemporary group is accessing supernormal knowledge through portals into Higher Consciousness. They are making knowledge available about what is actually going on in the world--beyond what the demonic cabal's media lies say is going on. And, of critical importance, they are preserving higher knowledge in books and Web sites which will be available when conditions have degenerated to the point where a rudely awakened mass of people will suddenly say: "How can we get out of this intolerable situation? What knowledge do we need to re-build a sane and progressive world?"

Mankind's spiritual--and physical--evolution has been guided by seers such as Hermes, Plato, Jesus, Rumi, Francis of Assisi, and Shakespeare.


"When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.

In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness."

Bhagavad Gita


This new "type" of person has discovered that humans are--in their essence--expressions of the One Higher Being. The being of humankind is a manifestation of the Universal Being and our evolution is the unfolding and realization of this Everlasting Spirit. Since all humans "live and move and have our being" in this Eternal Mind, we evolve by gaining a progressively creative and discerning understanding of this Universal Spirit.

see you and i are spirits, we have all the same potential.

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 02:47 AM
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

madthumbs
02-04-2008, 04:05 AM
Jesus Prophecised in the Holy Vedas

That's good to say instead of saying the writers of the Bible plagiarized the Vedas like everything else, or that Jesus is an unproveable prophecy fulfillment.

razed1
02-04-2008, 04:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPbV6apXeVs

hey pilgrim, do you think jesus was a real person and what about krishna?? was krishna also a real person?

phildee3
02-04-2008, 09:02 AM
do you think jesus was a real person and what about krishna?? was krishna also a real person?



You will never come close to understanding as long as you think of illusion as "real."

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 03:33 PM
hey pilgrim, do you think jesus was a real person and what about krishna?? was krishna also a real person?
Yes, i think Jesus was/is a real person.
Krishna is the Supreme PERSONality of Godhead.
He made an appearance on this planet 5,000 years ago in Vrindavan, India: http://www.vaisnava.cz/clanek_en.php3?no=180
Last year i lived in Vrindavan for over four months, visiting the places where Krishna performed His pastimes that were recorded in the Srimad-Bhagavatam & other scriptures almost 5,000 years ago: http://vedabase.net/sb/en
I have also experienced His loving presence whilst meditating on His Holy Names, forms & activities.
So yes, i believe He was/is a "real person". :)

You will never come close to understanding as long as you think of illusion as "real."
Perfectly put, phildee3. Very true.

synergy777
02-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Thoughts on Torah And Vedic Ritual Influnces - YouTube

vedic and torah

synergy777
02-04-2008, 03:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsZcVTBhjU

i don't like what it says eg be veget-arian, but i know its the truth!

octopusrex
02-04-2008, 04:31 PM
You know.. Jesus ate fish.

synergy777
02-04-2008, 04:42 PM
did he or was it allegory/symbolic/metaphoric. eg the two fish, the age of pisces?

i know he ate unleavened bread, grapes, etc

personally i think it makes scientific sense to be vegetarian, its just illogical desires, i like lamb, chicken, but just because i like it, doesn't mean its right.

we have to admit when we are wrong, i know i shouldn't eat meat, its me at fault, but to err, is to be human, lol

see i started eating qourn, it in the right curry sauce, tastes just as good as chicken, thats when i thought, you know what, stop the fakeness, false justification, vegetarian food is right, i am just wrong and shouldn't eat meat.

they should just make kentucky fried qourn, and i would be sorted, lol

i think its easier if you have people who are vegetarian, my mum is and most indian curries are vegetarian, so it depends on the ease/availabilty of it.

also, i feel better, healthier, more energetic when i eat vegetarian food, i was shocked.

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 05:14 PM
i don't like what it says eg be veget-arian, but i know its the truth!
Super-Excellent video, Thanks for sharing it! :)
All glories to Lord Jesus Christ!

synergy, i guarantee that if you stop eating meat, you will very soon think:
"Why did it take me so long to realize that eating the corpses of murdered animals was disgusting, completely unnecessary and detrimental to my physical, mental & Spiritual well-being!" ;)

synergy777
02-04-2008, 05:24 PM
the thing is like most things you know which are good for you, you know they are good for you, but you haven't the discipline to do it. its like going to the gym, giving to charity, being a good person, you know you should it, but you don't due to laziness, and attachment.

its a great video, with good scriptual evidence, and an awesome soundtrack, its robin d, clubbed to death, they use it in the matrix.

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 05:27 PM
Who is Jesus?

Sri Krishna explains in the Bhagavad-Gita:
"O descendant of Bharata, whenever and wherever there is a decline in
religious practice and a predominant rise of irreligion - at that time I
descend Myself. (Gita 4.7)

Either Krishna comes Himself or He sends His empowered representative, a
shaktyavesa avatara, a perfect being empowered (shakti) by Sri Krishna to
preach sanatana dharma, the pure eternal religion, the universal religion of
the soul.

We understand Jesus to be such a shaktyavesa avatara, a perfect soul, a
messenger of the Supreme Being.
He descended from the spiritual sky (see: Krishna, the Reservoir of
Pleasure, P.7) and he returned to Vaikuntha thereafter (lecture, Boston Dec
23, 1969)

Such great souls are completely selfless and only interested to save the
fallen souls in the material world.
Hence they descend to this level of consciousness.

Prahlada Maharaja said:
"I am not at all afraid of material existence, for wherever I stay I am
fully absorbed in thoughts of Your glories and activities. My concern is
only for the fools and rascals who are making elaborate plans for material
happiness, only concerned to maintain their families, societies and
countries.
I am simply concerned with love for them.
(Srila Bhagavatam 7.9.43)

"The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to
all living entities. He has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the
scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime...."(Srimad Bhagavatam
3.25.21)

Srila Prabhupada explains in the purport to this verse:
"...The Srimad-Bhagavatam states that any bona fide preacher of God
consciousness must have the qualities of titiksa (tolerance) and karuna
(compassion).
In the character of Lord Jesus Christ we find both these qualities.
He was so tolerant that even while he was being crucified, he didn't condemn
anyone. And he was so compassionate that he prayed to God to forgive the
very persons who were trying to kill him.
As Christ was being crucified he prayed, "Father, forgive them. They know
not what they are doing."
Jesus Christ was such a great personality - the son of God, the
representative of God.
He had no fault. Still, he was crucified.
He wanted to deliver God consciousness, but in return they crucified him.
They were so ungrateful.
They could not appreciate his preaching.
But we appreciate him and give him all honor as the representative of
God..."

Such mahatmas, great souls, are never disturbed under any conditions:

"...Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord,
never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation
and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested
only in the service of the Lord..." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6:17.28)
Even when facing tribulations like crucifixion, a pure soul on the highest
level of intimacy with God, absorbed in God consciousness, Krishna
Consciousness, is not afraid under any circumstances:
Hence Jesus, when walking up to Golgotha, said:
"Daughters of Jerusalem, don't cry for me, but cry for yourselves and for
your children. (Luke 23:28),

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme
Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have
anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state
he attains pure devotional service unto Me." (Gita 18.54)
Being simply absorbed to carry out the will of the Lord such great souls
return to the spiritual world after having accomplished their mission.

"It is finished." (John 19:13)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus The Vegetarian

Major stumbling blocks for many Christians are the belief that Jesus ate
meat and the many references to meat in the New Testament. But close study of the original Greek manuscripts shows that the vast majority of the words translated as "meat" are trophe, brome, and other words that simply mean "food" or "eating" in the broadest sense.
For example, in the Gospel (Luke 8:55) we read that Jesus raised a woman
from the dead and "commanded to give her meat." The original Greek word
translated as "meat" is phago, which means only "to eat". So, what Jesus
actually said was, "Let her eat."
The original Greek word for meat is kreas ("flesh"), and it is never used in
connection with Jesus.
In Luke 24:41-43 the disciples offered him fish and a honeycomb and he took it (singular, we can guess which one).
Nowhere in the New Testament is there any direct reference to Jesus eating meat.

This is in line with Isaiahs famous prophecy: "Behold, a virgin shall
conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. He shall eat
butter and honey, so that he may know the evil from the good." (Isaiah
7:14-15) (this itself says that meat eating destroys all good discretion in
man. It is quite typical, that the second part of the sentence is omitted in
Matthew 1:23).

Jesus rebuked strongly the Pharisees with the words: ... "and if you had
known what it means: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice, ... you would not
condemn the innocent,"(Matthew 12:6) which clearly disapproves of the
killing of animals, as this is a verse taken from Hosea 6:6 : " I desire mercy instead of sacrifice, the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings..." (note: again the 2nd part of the sentence is omitted in Matthew 12:6).

He strongly opposed the custom of temple animal sacrifices, violently
driving those who were selling oxen, sheep and pigeons and the money-changers out of the temple (John 2:13-15).

His words: "...you shall not make my father's house a house of trade (which
in earlier translations always was translated as "murder's den").

We all know that according to Matthew 3:4 John the Baptist was refusing to
eat meat. ("...and his food was wild locust(bean) and wild honey." (orig.
greek: enkris, oil cake and akris: locust/honey)

But we never hear of the sheer overwhelming evidence which rather points to
Jesus being a vegetarian: No less than seven of Jesus' twelve disciples
refused meat food (the rest we do not know). This naturally reflects the
teachings of Jesus, as: "...a servant is not greater than his master..."
(John 14.16).

The seven are:

1. Peter, ..."whose food was bread, olives and herbs..." (Clem.Hom.XII,6)

2. James : Church Father Eusebius, quoting Hegesippus (about 160 AD) that
"...James, the brother of the Lord was holy from birth. He drank no wine or
ate the flesh of animals..." (Eusebius, Church History II,Ch XXIII,5-7 )

(Note: James being a Vegetarian "from his mother's womb on" says a lot about
Mary's diet. Which again would lead to a conclusion as to Jesus' life-style.)

3. Thomas: The apocryphal Acts of Thomas (Ch. 20), which actually were
widely in use among early Christian sects, depict this disciples of Jesus as
ascetics:
"He continually fasts and prays, and abstaining from eating of flesh and
drinking wine, he eats only bread, with salt and drink and water, and wears
the same garment in fine weather and winter, and accepts nothing from anyone, and gives whatever he has to others."

4. Matthew: "It is far better to be happy than to have a demon dwelling with
us. And happiness is found in the practice of virtue. Accordingly, the
apostle Matthew partook of seeds and nuts, fruits and vegetables without of
flesh. And John, who carried temperance to the extreme, ate locusts and wild
honey...." (Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor,II.I,16: On Eating)
(Note here the strong hint of Clemens towards the Vegetarianism of John the
Baptist)

5.Matthias (who filled the place of Judas (Acts 1:21-26). His food as told
by Church Father Clement of Alexandria was the same as Matthews.
(Clement/ Stromata III,4,26)

6.Andrew and 7.Jude: Andrew (Peters brother in both flesh and faith) and
Jude of Bethsaida, originally two of John the Baptists' followers, must have
followed the Baptist's austere diet. (See above under Matthew)

Paul also says: "...It is good neither to drink wine or eat flesh..."
(Roman 14:20,21) though his commitment altogether are altogether less
categorical.

Beyond that there are strong arguments of a similar nature by many of the
Fathers of the early Church:

"...How unworthy do you press the example of Christ as having come eating
and drinking into the service of your lusts: I think that He who pronounced
not the full, but the hungry and thirsty 'Blessed,' who professed His work
to be the completion of His Father's Will, I think that he was wont to abstain, instructing them to labour for that 'Meat' which lasts to eternal life, and enjoying in their common prayers petition, not for flesh food but for bread only..." - Quintus Septimius Tertullianus (AD 155).

This knowledge of Tertullianis was supported by fragments of the writings by
the Apostolic Father Papias (AD 60 - 125).

The apocryphal Acts of Thomas, which were widely in use among early
Christian sects, depict the disciples of Jesus as ascetics: "...He continually fasts and prays, wears the same garment in all weather, accepts nothing from anyone, gives whatever he has to others and abstains from meat and wine..."
"...The unnatural eating of flesh is as polluting as the heathens worship of
devils with its sacrifices and impure feasts, through participation in which
a man becomes a fellow eater with devils..." ( 2nd century scripture Clemente Homilies (Hom. XII)

Clemens Prudentius, the first Christian hymn writer exhorts in one of his
hymns his fellow Christians ..."not to pollute their hands and hearts by the
slaughter of innocent cows and sheep..."
"...It is by far better to be happy than to have the devil dwelling in us,
for happiness is found only in the practice of virtue. Accordingly the
Apostle Matthew, partook of seeds, and nuts, and vegetables, without the use
of flesh... is there not within a temperate simplicity, a wholesome variety
of eatables, vegetables, roots, olives, herbs, milk, cheese, fruits?" -
Churchfather Clement of Alexandria (Titus Flavius Clemens / AD 150 - 220)

"...We the Christian leaders practice abstinence from the flesh of animals
to subdue our bodies. The unnatural eating of flesh is of demonic origin."
And about the early Christians: "...No streams of blood are among them. No
dainty cookery, no heaviness of head. Nor are horrible smells of flesh meats
among them or disagreeable fumes from the kitchen.." - St. Chrysostomos (AD
347-404)

St. Basil (AD 320 - 79) says:
"The steam of meat darkens the light of the spirit... One hardly can have
virtue when one enjoys meat meals and feasts..." -

A most important purport to a controversy, much cherished and much cited by meat- eating Christians we find in the writings of the Churchfather Jerome
(AD 340 - 420), who gave us the Vulgate, the authorized Latin version of the
Bible still in use today.

The controversy is based on the fact that in Genesis 1:29 meat-eating is
clearly forbidden, "...I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of
the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be
yours for food..."

However after the flood it appears that Meat eating is all of a sudden
permitted:
"...The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything
that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green
plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its
lifeblood still in it..."(Genesis 9:2-4)

Writing in confutation of Jovinian, a monk of Milan, who abandoned
asceticism, St. Jerome holds up Vegetarianism as the Christian ideal and the
restoration of the primal rule of life.

St. Jerome says:

"...He (Jovinian) raises the objection that when God gave His second
blessing, permission was granted to eat flesh, which had not in the first
benediction been allowed. He should know that just as divorce according to
the Savior's word was not permitted from the beginning, but on account of
the hardness of our heart was a concession of Moses to the human race,
(Matthew 9:8 : "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your
hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.") ...so too
the eating of flesh was unknown until the deluge.
But after the deluge, like the quails given in the desert to the murmuring
people, the poison of flesh-meat was offered to our teeth. The Apostle
writing to the Ephesians (Eph. I. 10.) teaches that God had purposed in the
fullness of time to sum up and renew in Jesus all things which are in heaven
and in earth. Whence also the Savior himself in the Revelation of John
says,(Rev. i, 8; xxii. 13), "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
ending." At the beginning of the human race we neither ate flesh, nor gave
bills of divorce, nor suffered circumcision for a sign. Thus we reached the
deluge. But after the deluge, together with the giving of the law which no
one could fulfil, flesh was given for food, and divorce was allowed to
hard-hearted men, and the knife of circumcision was applied, as though the
hand of God had fashioned us with something superfluous.

But once Christ has come in the end of time, and Omega passed into Alpha and
turned the end into the beginning, we are no longer allowed divorce (see
Matthew 19:3-9), nor are we circumcised, nor so we eat flesh, for the Apostle says, (Rom. xiv. 21.) "It is good not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine."
For wine as well as flesh was consecrated after the deluge" (Agains Jovinianus, Book I,18)

With this contribution St. Jerome provides us with one of the strongest
arguments in our case for the vegetarian intents of Jesus himself and the
loss of such intend in Christianity.

Besides that it is intriguing that contemporary heathen observers describe
the early Christians as abstaining from meat:

Pliny, Governor of Bithynia (where Peter preached) referred to the early
Christians in a letter to Trajan, the Roman Emperor, as a ..."contagious
superstition abstaining from flesh food..."

Seneca, (5 BC - 65 AD), stoic Philosopher and tutor of Nero, describes the
Christians as "...a foreign cult or superstition (under imperial suspicion)
who abstain from flesh food..."

And Josephus Flavius says about the early Christians: "...They assemble
before sunrise and speak not a word of profane matters but put up certain
prayers...and sit down together each one to a single plate of one sort of
innocent food ..."

Finally let us hear some of the more contemporary Christians:

Albert Schweitzer: "...Ethics has not only to do with mankind but with the
animal creation as well. This is witnessed in the purpose of St. Francis of
Assisi. Thus we shall arrive that ethics is reverence for all life. This is
the ethic of love widened universally. It is the ethic of Jesus now recognized as a necessity of thought...Only a universal ethic which embraces every living creature can put us in touch with the universe and the will which is there manifest..."

Cardinal John. Henry Newman (1801 - 90):..."Cruelty to animals is as if man
did not love God...They have done us no harm, they have no power of
resistance.... there is something dreadful, so satanic in tormenting those
who have never harmed us and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power..."

Tolstoy and Dukhobor (Orthodox Russian Christian) were of the opinion that
meat-eating is against the tenets of Christianity.

As far as our views in this matter, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness says:

"...There are many rascals who violate their own religious principles.
While it clearly says according to Judeo-Christian scriptures, "Thou shalt
not kill," they are giving all kinds of excuses. Even the heads of religions
indulge in killing animals while trying to pass as saintly persons. This
mockery and hypocrisy in human society has brought about unlimited
calamities..."

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 06:04 PM
Jesus in India - YouTube

Interesting stuff, but the commentary sounds like a dysfunctional android!

octopusrex
02-04-2008, 07:16 PM
Super-Excellent video, Thanks for sharing it! :)
All glories to Lord Jesus Christ!

synergy, i guarantee that if you stop eating meat, you will very soon think:
"Why did it take me so long to realize that eating the corpses of murdered animals was disgusting, completely unnecessary and detrimental to my physical, mental & Spiritual well-being!" ;)

You know, Pilgrim...

The MOMENT I stepped out of the temple, the first place I went to visit on my own was for my birthday. A big Lamb BarbQ. The weird thing is that I am totally conscious how terribly demonic this act really is, because I have very clear in my heart how a demon acts. HOWEVER, this was an act of alignment with the rest of the demons on this planet. The sad truth is that demons are more numerous than humans on this planet, and as such, they need a qualified spiritual leader, much like Prahlad during his time.

Not because you know the rules of the game, do you follow them necessarily. I know I have felt Prema Bhakti for the names of Govinda and Nanda Dulal. I am a Bhakta. However I have also met Mescalito and I feel something similiar. I know Krsna's name to be Kukulkan in this continent.

Correction... I have seen the shadow of mescalito.

Pilgrim, the Bible says Jesus ate fish.

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 07:28 PM
I know I have felt Prema Bhakti for the names of Govinda and Nanda Dulal. I am a Bhakta.
However I have also met Mescalito and I feel something similiar. I know Krsna's name to be Kukulkan in this continent.
Krishna's Holy Name IS Krishna: the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
What is this Kukulkan feathered-serpent nonsense? Please explain!

octopusrex
02-04-2008, 07:33 PM
Krishna's Holy Name IS Krishna: the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
What is this Kukulkan feathered-serpent nonsense? Please explain!

Better let Krsna explain it to you directly!

phildee3
02-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Krishna's Holy Name IS Krishna: the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
What is this Kukulkan feathered-serpent nonsense? Please explain!



Pilgrim.
I am surprised at your ethnocentricity.
Such intolerance does nothing to further KRSNA conciousness!

To the Eskimo, a blue-skinned, peacock-feathered butter thief must sound like nonsense!

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 08:08 PM
Pilgrim.
I am surprised at your ethnocentricity.
Such intolerance does nothing to further KRSNA conciousness!
To the Eskimo, a blue-skinned, peacock-feathered butter thief must sound like nonsense!
Sorry i did'nt mean to be "ethnocentric", i just wanted octopusrex to explain his statement: "I know Krsna's name to be Kukulkan in this continent."
I don't understand what he means. If i'm missing something obvious, please let me know. :o

phildee3
02-04-2008, 08:30 PM
Sorry i did'nt mean to be "ethnocentric", i just wanted octopusrex to explain his statement: "I know Krsna's name to be Kukulkan in this continent."
I don't understand what he means. If i'm missing something obvious, please let me know. :o



The Supreme Personality of Godhead, as you call it, is revealed to each culture in their own language and cultural context.

I hope that octo accepts your apology and tells us more about Kukulkan.
Since I have also encountered Mescalito (during an authentic, Indian peyote ceremony in California), I am interested...

Hari Bol

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 08:43 PM
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, as you call it, is revealed to each culture in their own language and cultural context.
There are still people today who worship serpents and all sorts of things. Does that mean they are all worshiping the Supreme God? I don't think so.
Anyway, let's wait for octopusrex can explain his statement. No use speculating. :)

phildee3
02-04-2008, 08:59 PM
There are still people today who worship serpents and all sorts of things. Does that mean they are all worshiping the Supreme God? I don't think so.
Anyway, let's wait for octopusrex can explain his statement. No use speculating. :)



I agree with you;
except that your language still carries a degree of self-righteous prejudice.

You are the one who seems to be speculating.
Speculating that Kukulkan is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Perhaps we should both be looking it up.

razed1
02-04-2008, 09:23 PM
There are still people today who worship serpents and all sorts of things. Does that mean they are all worshiping the Supreme God? I don't think so.
Anyway, let's wait for octopusrex can explain his statement. No use speculating. :)

you dont even know the roots of the hindusim that you so promote....

you have fallen victim to this new refined corrupted form of hinduism,

otherwise you wouldnt be making comments like those

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 10:29 PM
you dont even know the roots of the hindusim that you so promote....
you have fallen victim to this new refined corrupted form of hinduism,
otherwise you wouldnt be making comments like those
razed1, PLEASE click on my name and look through my previous posts.

I have NEVER, EVER once promoted "Hinduism".

In fact EVERY ONE of my posts that mentions "Hinduism" is actually AGAINST it!

Once again, you got it all wrong! :rolleyes:

I will request you one last time:

PLEASE actually find out what Krishna/God Consciousness is before making any more baseless accusations:
http://causelessmercy.com/

There are also many threads on the David Icke Forum where this info is available, including:

Hare Krishna
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16586

The ILLUMINATI has made us DULL to SIMPLE TRUTH
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23195

The Illuminati infiltrated ISKCON
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8612

;)

razed1
02-04-2008, 10:39 PM
the vedas and the gita are hindoo texts, i know its a blanket term, but im not wrong to call it hindoo

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Prabhupada on "Hinduism"

Simply we are teaching that “Become God conscious.” God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. He’s God. And WE ARE ALSO NOT HINDU or Muslim or Christian. This is our bodily designation. We are all pure, part and parcel of the Supreme. (BG Lecture NY 23/11/66)

Prabhupada: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe... In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Mohammedans. Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s time, even THE HINDUS WERE AGAINST HIS MOVEMENT, the brahmanas. They complained to the Kazi that “THIS IS NOT HINDU MOVEMENT.” You see? The sankirtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the sankirtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.
Nitai: That’s similar to what happened in Bombay.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Nitai: That’s similar to what happened...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Nitai: ...in Bombay.
Prabhupada: THE HINDUS THEY WANTED TO BREAK OUR TEMPLE, and they broke part of it. You do not know? (Morning Walk 6/3/74)Actually, “Hindu,” THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS “HINDU” RELIGION. We don’t find in the Vedic scripture. Hindu religion... Hindu religion is a modern term given by the foreigners. Actually the Indians, bharatiya, they, their religion is varnasrama-dharma, religion of four castes and four spiritual orders, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The persons who follow these four orders of social status and four orders of spiritual advancement, they are called varnasrama. SO HINDU RELIGION IS A MISCALCULATION. (CC Lecture - NY 11/1/67)

But India, they have given up the real religious system, sanatana-dharma, or varnasrama-dharma. FICTITIOUSLY, THEY HAVE ACCEPTED A HODGEPODGE THING WHICH IS CALLED HINDUISM. THEREFORE THERE IS TROUBLE. Everywhere, but India especially, they are... Vedic religion... Vedic religion means varnasrama-dharma. That is... Krsna says, God says, catur-varnyam maya srstam . So that is, what is called, obligatory. Just like law is obligatory. You cannot say that “I don’t take this law.” No. You have to take it if you want to have a happy. You cannot become outlaw. Then you’ll not be happy. You’ll be punished. So God says maya srstam. “It is given by Me.” So how we can deny it? And that is religion. (Conv. - Vrindavan 28/6/76)

Other religious sects, they say this is Hindu belief. When Krsna says dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara: just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man. This is science. AND WHY DO YOU SAY IT IS HINDU BELIEF? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? NO, IT IS FACT, IT IS SCIENCE. What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?" (Tehran 8/8/76)

So where is the difficulty to understand? Plain thing. Plain thing. But we are stubborn. We do not wish to understand. This is not a sectarian; this is a science. If a child becomes a boy, is that sectarian? The Hindu child becomes a boy, Hindu boy, and the Christian child becomes a Christian. That is outward, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. But within this body... I am Hindu or Christian because I have got this body from the Christian father-mother, Hindu father-mother. But that is body. I am not this body. Therefore we have to understand first that “[B]I am not this body. Therefore I am not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian, not black, not white. I am pure spirit soul.” Aham brahmasmi. THIS IS THE FIRST BASIC KNOWLEDGE. THIS IS NOT SECTARIAN. This is a basic knowledge, you believe or not believe. (BG Lect. – 22/4/76 Melbourne)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HINDU DHARMA. NO. There is no such word in the whole Vedic literature. You won’t find in the Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata as Hindu dharma. There is one word as bhagavata-dharma, but there is no such word as Hindu dharma. This Hindu dharma or Hindu... This is creation by our neighbour, Indian neighbour, the Middle-east Muhammadans. They gave the name, Indian people, as “Hindu.” “Hindu” means... There is one river, Sindhu. The Muhammadans, they pronounce sa as ha. So those who were on the other side of the Sindhu River, Hindu River, they were called Hindus. But actually Vedic religion is neither for Hindus nor for Christian nor for... It is meant for the human being. Vedic literature... This Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, they are VEDIC literature.
(SB Lecture - NY 5/3/75)

Bhakti, devotional service is not dependent on any material condition. Because one man is very rich, he can get Krsna? No. Because one man is very poor, he cannot get Krsna? No. That’s not right. Because one is Hindu or Indian, he can get Krsna, not others? No. That is also not. Krsna is unconditionally for everyone. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: sarva yonisu kaunteya . Otherwise, how He can be God? If He is a Hindu God, just like they describe in the dictionary that Krsna, a Hindu God—that is nonsense. Krsna is for everyone. Krsna does not say that “I am a Hindu God.’’ But these rascals say Krsna is Hindu God. This is going on. You see in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says, sarva yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. “In all species of life.’’ Sambhavanti murtayah. There are as many different forms of life. Tasam mahad yoni, brahma: “Their mother is this material nature, and I am their seed-giving father.’’ Krsna says that. So how can Krsna be Indian or Hindu or this or that? No. Krsna is for everyone. And the proof is that five years ago in the Western countries nobody knew what is Krsna. How they’re taking Krsna in so loving attitude? This is the proof that Krsna is for everyone, and everyone is for Krsna.
[B]Try to understand this philosophy. Don’t be mislead. IT IS NOT A SECTARIAN RELIGION. IT IS THE FACT. (Arrival Lecture - Gainsville 29/7/71)

Gopala Krsna: They are saying, they are saying we are not Hindus.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gopala Krsna: They are saying this is not Hinduism.
Prabhupada: Hindus?, we are Krsnian. It they, if...
Hansaduta: Krsnans.
Prabhupada: Krsna, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Krsnian, Krsna. Krsna conscious. Krsna conscious means “Godder than the Hindus.” When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Krsna says, “I am for everyone.” So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Krsna says sarva yonisu, “In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father.” Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Krsna is for all of them. We therefore, why Krsna should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Krsna is not restricted to Hindus. Krsna’s picture, that Bal Gopal. He’s embracing the calves. Krsna does not embrace only the gopis, He’s embracing the calves also. That is Krsna. He’s equal to everyone. Mah hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah. Papa-yonayah, so many low-grade forms of life, they’re also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivamso ji... Quote this: Krsna is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, “We are not Hindu,” means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Krsna is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Krsna conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahaprabhu (said) prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, this is our movement. Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. (Room Conv. - Vrindavana 2/11/76)

So sad-dharma required. The, in this material world the so-called dharmas, this Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma and Christian dharma and Buddhist dharma and so many... They are not sad-dharma. They are asad-dharma. “Because I am born in the family of a Christian, I am Christian.” “Because I am born in the family of Hindu, I am Hindu.” And next time I may (be) born in the family of a dog. There is no dharma. So these are not sad-dharma. These are all asad-dharma, for the time being. Asad means “that will not stay.” You are Hindu. How long you are Hindu? Say, fifty years. Or you are Indian. How long you are Indian? Say, fifty, sixty, hundred years. But again you have to become something else. That we do not know. We are working very hard, “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Indian,” “I am American.” These upadhi. But the upadhi may be changed next moment. At any moment. So what is your real dharma? This is temporary dharma for the body. What is your real dharma? Real dharma is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja . That is sad-dharma. That is sad-dharma. That will continue eternally. (SB Lect - Bombay 11/11/74)

Prabhupada: Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that “I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight.” This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and “I am Christian” or “Hindu” or “Mohammedan, so let us fight.” That’s all.
Dr. Kneupper: Do you think that there is a special way that Hinduism looks upon man’s place in the universe?
Prabhupada: The Hindu religion is a vague term. It is a vague term. It is not clear. It is not clear. Real term is, it is called, Vedic principle. Vedic principle. And in the Bhagavad-gita it is said: Vedic knowledge means to understand God. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So anyone who tries to understand God, he is in the Vedic line. [B]Veda means knowledge, so as you get the stock of knowledge, that is called Vedas. But as soon as we say Vedas, they think it is Hindu. Mathematics is a science. So any scientific man will accept mathematics. Where is the question of Hindu mathematics? Gold is gold. If it is in the hand of Hindu, it is Hindu gold? Hindu, Muslim gold? Gold is gold. When we give the Vedic knowledge, they think it is Hindu idea. (Room Conv. –Vrindavana 6/11/76)

So at the present moment, being entrapped by the material nature, we have accepted different types of dharmas. That is artificial. That is artificial. “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian,” “I am Buddhist,” “I am this,” “I am that.” These are all in relationship with this body. Accidentally if I am born in a Hindu family, or Muslim family, or Christian family, I identify myself, “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” But real identification is, as I have already explained to you, aham brahmasmi, I am Brahman. I am the spirit soul. (SB Lect. – Hyderebad 26/11/72)

Mahamsa: THEY WILL SAY THAT THIS KRSNA CULTURE IS HINDUISM.
Prabhupada: THEN HE’S A RASCAL. PROVE IT IN THE COURT. KRSNA IS NOT HINDUISM. NEVER.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna says, “I am for the Hindus or for the Indians”?
Acyutananda: The Hindu law is so elastic, anyone who calls himself a Hindu or who practices any branch...
Mahamsa: Or puts on tilaka.
Acyutananda: Puts on tilaka, he may have the lowest character or the highest standard, anyone, he will be all considered a Hindu.
Prabhupada: So this should be taken to court, on the Supreme Court.
Harikeça: But if there is no definition of Hindu, how can you prove...
Prabhupada: THERE IS NO HINDU. It is not.... THEREFORE WE ARE NOT HINDU.
Acyutananda: Well, they’ll say, “This is our definition. This is what we say a Hindu is.”
Prabhupada: Huh?
Acyutananda: The court says, “This is what we say a Hindu is. SO YOU’RE HINDUS.”
Prabhupada: NO, NO. And court can say anything, but then why not put it into the judgment of many judges?
Harikesa: Then we have to establish what is Hinduism...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: ...and what is Krsna consciousness.
Acyutananda: It is already established.
Prabhupada: You can define anything. That does not mean that your definition is perfect. Actually we have to.... Who...? Suppose Hindu. So who is not accepting Bhagavad-gita? But where is...? In the Bhagavad-gita where is the mention of “Hindu”? Hm? Krsna says that “I am the father of all living entities.” So WHY DO THEY SAY THAT THIS IS HINDUISM?
Acyutananda: “Well, all religions say that they are the best. Jesus Christ says, ‘Everyone who comes to me, they will get the grace of God.’ So the same thing. But still they are Christians and you are Hindus.”
Prabhupada: So this cannot stay in the court. Krsna’s instruction is not for the Hindus. Nowhere it is mentioned.
Tamala Krsna: The word “Hindu” doesn’t appear in the Vedas anywhere.
Acyutananda: Then why do you use in the Krsna consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.
Prabhupada: NO, THIS IS NOT HINDUISM. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyasi, but you are not Indian.
Acyutananda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He’s not British either.
Prabhupada: No, we are clearly stating Krsna consciousness.
Harikesa: Yes, but Krsna is a Hindu god.
Prabhupada: That is your definition. Krsna doesn’t say.
Harikesa: But my definition counts ’cause I’m in charge.
Prabhupada: You can do any nonsense. That is.... Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that “How you can...”
Tamala Krsna: But they are the court.
Prabhupada: “...talk like nonsense and do like nonsense? Then anyone can do any nonsense thing? Then who will control you?”
Harikesa: That’s the point.
Mahamsa: The chief justice himself was saying like that in Madras. Their opinion will come in their favor.
Prabhupada: No, they can give opinion, but there is supreme court. There is international court. We shall go...
Mahamsa: International court?
Gopala Krsna: That’s only for disputes between countries, international court.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is country—”We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu.” This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.
Mahamsa: It’s become a world issue.
Acyutananda: In most books about Hinduism they describe that Hinduism is a cult where they worship many gods and ultimately God is formless.
Prabhupada: No.
Acyutananda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. THE HINDUISM IS ALSO A CHEATING RELIGION. We are preaching Bhagavata, and Bhagavata beginning that “We have kicked out all cheating religion.” What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhagavata says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [SB 6.3.19] “Religion means the order given by God.” If you do not know who is God, “imperson,” then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.
Gopala Krsna: They will consult all the standard dictionaries about Krsna’s definition and all the...
Prabhupada: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Acyutananda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, “I am for all,” but there is Christianity.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God’s representative, He is for everyone. Suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. That is the definition of sadhu. Titikaavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person. Suhrdah. Suhrdah means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaisnava, he is well-wisher for everyone. ...suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.
Harikesa: So many others have preached Hinduism but have no result.
Prabhupada: No result. Why they should become Hindu?
Acyutananda: That sign is there, “Swami Vivekananda, the Hindu monk.”
Prabhupada: But who cares for Ramakrishna Mission? Hindu monk, but who cares for the Ramakrishna Mission? For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda. They advertise that “We have made all Americans...” But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that’s all. Where is the Hindu sadhus eating meat? [break]…
Prabhupada: Foreign devotees, they are joining this movement not because it is a Hindu culture. They take it as a real spiritual culture. Otherwise why, for the last hundred, two hundred years, the Hindu sannyasis, yogis, were going there? Who did accept it? Did anybody? (Morning Walk - 08/01/76)

[B]This led to a long discussion whether our ISKCON temples could also be taken over. If they could, it would be on the basis of their being "Hindu" temples. So Srila Prabhupada, in order to avoid any government interference, suggested that we register the temples as American property. Apart from that, he said WE ARE NOT HINDU. The word Hindu isn't in the Bhagavad-gita, and the teachings of Bhagavad-gita are for everyone, not just Hindus. SRILA PRABHUPADA STRONGLY EMPHASIZED THIS POINT AND EVEN SAID THAT WE COULD GO TO COURT TO PROVE WE ARE NOT HINDUS. (Conversation 6/1/76 Anbdhra Pradesh - Hari Sauri Dasa –ATD)

Mahesh: The other Swamiji, Swami Kaivalya does not know English. You have heard of Swami Kaivalya?
Prabhupada: No, what is his philosophy? He is Vaisnava?
Mahesh: Hmmm, I think he is not Vaisnava. But actually, in our Hindu religion, all paths are same and all is one.
Prabhupada: All is one? So we can just take your building?
Mahesh: Ummm. Actually, Swamiji, there are many Hindu families here in Kobe. They are all interested in seeing you. All have heard of the famous Hare Krsna Swamiji. And everyone will be coming tonight. If the program is successful, they can support one Hindu temple for your devotees to run in Kobe.
Prabhupada: WHAT IS THIS HINDU? HINDU MEANS HODGE-PODGE. All is one. This is nonsense. Where is the word “Hindu” mentioned in Sastra? In Bhagavad-gita? In Vedas? Anywhere? Where is this “Hindu” mentioned even one time? Anyplace? One place?
Mahesh: Ummm.
Prabhupada: [To Mr. Santanam.]: You are born in a brahmana family. Any one place? No, this Hindu is a name given by Mohammedans. They cannot pronounce Indus River, so they are calling those on the other side Hindus in their own pronunciation. You know this?
[Pause.]
You don’t know. But you can learn. To learn, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and hear from him. This is the process. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. We must serve him and inquire from him. Then he will train us to see the truth. By training we can develop.
M. Santanam: Swamiji, who is real guru?
Prabhupäda: A guru knows Krsna. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. His eyes are decorated with love of Krsna. He can see Krsna everywhere. Become trained by such a spiritual master, and then you will understand everything. WE ARE NOT HINDUS, AND WE ARE NOT TRAINING THESE BOYS TO BECOME HINDUS. We are training them to love Krsna, God. (SP Conversation Japan 1972 - Bhurijana Dasa MGM)

So this is the warm invitation of Krishna Consciousness. It has nothing to do with black or white, young or old, or believe me, Christian or Jew or Hindu or anything like that. We consider these to be as much a part of false ego—Christian, Hindu, Jew—as we do black, white, young, old, man or woman. Because they were delegated to this body—I'm born in a Christian family, I call myself a Christian; I'm born in a Hindu family, I call myself a Hindu—so because of this body I'm a Hindu, because of this body I'm a Jew, and if I was born a million years ago would I be a Hindu, Christian or Jew? No. But, I'd still have my consciousness. See? Suppose you're born a hundred thousand years from now? Are you going to be a Christian or a Hindu or a Jew? No. But you'll still have your consciousness, and you'll still want to be happy. (VISNUJANA SWAMI - Festival Address Oregon 1/6/75)

pilgrim
02-04-2008, 11:00 PM
the vedas and the gita are hindoo texts, i know its a blanket term, but im not wrong to call it hindoo
:rolleyes:
The Vedas & Bhagavad-Gita existed long BEFORE the concept of "Hinduism" existed.
The word "Hindu" is mentioned NOWHERE in ANY Vedic texts!
"Hindu" is a recent name given to people living south of the "Indus: river.
Etc, etc, etc...
Please read my previous post on "Hinduism" (above).
;)
I don't know exactly why you are trying to 'pick a fight' with me, but it is off-topic on "The Real Jesus?' thread and very boring.

synergy777
02-04-2008, 11:36 PM
hindu comes from the river indus, also the hindu kush mountain range.

pilgrim you are rigfht about the age of the vedas etc.

hinduism has also been corrupted eg caste system, animal sacrifices, etc.

but if you read the real texts, you see the truth compared to oral/priest/tribal law.

india itself is not its real name, its a greek/western name.

the real name is bharat or aryavarta.

after all the west indies is not west india is it, lol

thats why they changed the name bombay, back to the original mumbai.

people have to look beyond recent names/history/empires

after look the the names of england/land of angles-anglos, it use to be called albion etc. look at eire, they ireland etc. then you have old names like hibernia, calendonia for scotland, scotland comes from the scoti, people from eire.

pilgrim
03-04-2008, 02:07 AM
i don't like what it says eg be veget-arian, but i know its the truth!
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

pilgrim
03-04-2008, 02:12 AM
Pilgrim, the Bible says Jesus ate fish.
Let's say Jesus did eat fish...
Fish may have been the only food available to poor fishermen at that time, but Jesus did not say "open big slaughterhouses & kill millions of animals everyday from now on".
:rolleyes:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

optimus pigpot
03-04-2008, 04:30 AM
Let's say Jesus did eat fish...
Fish may have been the only food available to poor fishermen at that time, but Jesus did not say "open big slaughterhouses & kill millions of animals everyday from now on".
:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT0VAM8dH6w

Instead of talking about what a mythical man who never existed did, why don't you go and perform a real action to make a difference?

pilgrim
03-04-2008, 04:53 AM
Instead of talking about what a mythical man who never existed did, why don't you go and perform a real action to make a difference?
Instead of making pointless comments, why don't you .... ...?
:rolleyes:

synergy777
07-04-2008, 05:50 PM
http://www.livescience.com/history/080331-hs-nicea.html

How the Council of Nicea Changed the World

By Heather Whipps,

LiveScience's History Columnist

posted: 31 March 2008 ET

Each Monday, this column turns a page in history to explore the discoveries, events and people that continue to affect the history being made today.

When Constantine became the first Christian leader of the Roman Empire in the 4th century, his vast territory was populated by a hodgepodge of beliefs and religions.

Within his own young religion, there was also dissent, with one major question threatening to cleave the popular cult — as it was at the time — into warring factions: Was Jesus divine, and how?

It's hard to imagine riots in the streets, pamphlet wars and vicious rhetoric spawned by such a question, but that was the nature of things in A.D. 325, when Constantine was forced to take action to quell the controversy.

That summer, 318 bishops from across the empire were invited to the Turkish town of Nicea, where Constantine had a vacation house, in an attempt to find common ground on what historians now refer to as the Arian Controversy. It was the first ever worldwide gathering of the Church.

The Christianity we know today is a result of what those men agreed upon over that sticky month, including the timing of the religion's most important holiday, Easter, which celebrates Jesus rising from the dead.

Young religion

Christianity was young and still working out the kinks when Constantine took power over the Roman Empire in A.D. 306. Christian doctrine at the time was muddled and inconsistent, especially when it came to the central question of Jesus' relationship to God.

Jesus was as eternally divine as the Father, said one camp led by the Archbishop Alexander of Alexandria. Another group, named the Arians after their leader Arius the preacher, saw Jesus as a remarkable leader, but inferior to the Father and lacking in absolute divinity.

Supporters on both sides scrawled graffiti on town walls in defiance while bishops from across the empire entered into a war of words as the controversy simmered to a head in 324.

Fearing unrest in his otherwise peaceful territory, Constantine summoned the bishops to his lake house in Nicea on June 19, 325.

Savvy move

In a savvy move that would put today's shrewd politicians to shame, the compromise proffered by Constantine was vague, but blandly pleasing: Jesus and God were of the same "substance," he suggested, without delving too much into the nature of that relationship. A majority of the bishops agreed on the compromise and voted to pass the language into doctrine.

Their statement of compromise, which would come to be known as "The Nicene Creed," formed the basis for Christian ideology. The bishops also used the Council of Nicea to set in stone some church rules that needed clarification, and those canons were the reference point after which all future laws were modeled.

As a final order of business, the bishops decided upon a date for the holiest of Christian celebrations, Easter, which was being observed at different times around the empire. Previously linked with the timing of Passover, the council settled on a moveable day that would never coincide again with the Jewish holiday — the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the vernal equinox.

Nicene legends still circulating

While the Council of Nicea had important consequences, its significance has been exaggerated into legend by a few conspiracy theorists, documentaries and books such as Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code," historians say.

Contrary to popular belief, the council had nothing to do with selecting which verses and gospels would be included in the Bible, nor whether Christianity agreed or disagreed with the concept of reincarnation. Bishops did not burn books they deemed heretical there either, historians say.

razed1
07-04-2008, 05:52 PM
Instead of making pointless comments, why don't you .... ...?
:rolleyes:

why doesnt he worship a living man instead??

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:33 PM
http://www.thevesselofgod.com/theluciferianlegacy.html

The Luciferian Legacy

“[The] Serpent is also the wise word of Eve. This is the mystery of Eden: this is the river that flows out of Eden. This is also the mark that was set on Cain… [and] this serpent is also he who appeared in the latter days in human form at the time of Herod…”

- Hippolytus

The Mark of Cain

A few years back, workers toiling in an underground chamber beneath a medieval cathedral in Geneva, Switzerland uncovered a strange mosaic tile floor, thought to be of great antiquity. The mosaic depicted an icon beloved by the Merovingians: the Black Sun. The Priory of Sion claims that one of its principle commandaries is in Geneva, and if so, this may be it. For hidden away in the cathedral’s recesses, far from public view, is one of Christendom’s strangest set of relics: a plate and cup connected to the legends of Cain, Solomon, Christ, and Lucifer.

In an ancient variation on Biblical tradition, the so-called “mark of Cain” - believed to have been inflicted upon Adam’s first son - is said to have been caused by a stone that fell from Lucifer’s crown during the war in Heaven and bounced off Cain‘s forehead. According to this lore, the mark was in the shape of a red serpent. The jewel from Lucifer’s crown became a sacred relic, and was handed down dynastically from father to son, eventually coming into the possession of King Solomon. He hired a master craftsman to carve the huge stone into a plate and drinking vessel. According to this same legend, these very utensils were later used by Christ at the Last Supper. This story, bizarre though it may be, is emblematic of the unambiguously Luciferian symbolism that recurs constantly in regards to lore of the Grail bloodline - symbolism that has been consciously cultivated by the Merovingians throughout their history.

The Melusine

Among the most overtly Luciferian lore relating to the Grail bloodline is the strange saga of Melusine, a woman said to be half-human and half-serpent. Her father was reputedly Godfroi de Bouillon, former King of Jerusalem (or “Defender of the Holy Sepulcher”, as he preferred to be called), and prime mover behind the formation of both the Priory of Sion and the Knights Templar. It was due to de Bouillon - a descendant of Jesus Christ, King David, and the historical figure of Lohengrin - that the Templars adopted the Cross of Lorraine as their esoteric emblem. This symbol is known in Germany as the Cross of Lothringen, or Lohengrin (the origin of the name “Lorraine”), and was said to have been emblazoned upon Lohengrin’s shield. Godfroi was succeeded as King of Jerusalem by his brother Baldwin, who in turn was succeeded by Fulk the Black, a member of the prominent Angevin dynasty. It was Fulk who married Godfroi’s daughter, the mythical Melusine. As the story goes, upon her betrothal to Fulk, Melusine made a very unusual request. She agreed to marry him, but only upon this strange condition: that one night per week, on the Sabbath, she was to be allowed absolute solitude and privacy. On this night her husband was neither to speak to her, nor to enter her bedchambers. Fulk agreed to the bizarre codicil, and by all reports they shared a very happy union for the first several years.

In time, however, Fulk’s curiosity began to get the best of him. He wondered why his lovely bride required time apart from him, and what exactly she did on those nights. Unable to resist the temptation, Fulk burst into her bedroom one of these nights, only to be confronted by a terrifying visage. His wife had transformed herself into a figure that was half-serpent. The entirety of her lower extremities took on the appearance of a massive, bluish-white colored snake. Melusine was so horrified at being discovered that she keeled over dead. It was said that her ghost (in half-serpent form) haunted the site thereafter, and could be heard late at night, slithering about behind the locked door.

In a variation on this tale, Fulk was said instead to have peered through the keyhole of his wife’s chambers on one of her private nights. Inside he saw Melusine sitting in a bath, her body covered with scales from the waist down, her legs having turned into the tail of a fish. Deeply disturbed by what he had seen, Fulk was eventually compelled to question his wife. Upon learning that her trust had been violated, Melusine departed, never to be seen again.

As bizarre as such tales are, many European monarchs took great pride in citing Melusine in their family trees. In fact, according to Sabine Baring-Gould’s Myths of the Middle Ages, a number of royal families altered their genealogies in order to claim descent from the “illustrious” serpent lady. Her story became wildly popular in France, Germany and Spain, and for a time was seldom out of print.

In the early, happy days of Melusine’s marriage, she gave birth to a son, Geoffrey de Anjou. Geoffrey would eventually grow up to be the first Plantagenet King of England. Present at Geoffrey's birth was Bernard of Clairvaux, the famous Cistercian abbot, and yet another founding father of the Knights Templar. Upon first seeing the baby Geoffrey, Bernard made this strange pronouncement: “From the Devil he has come, and to the Devil he’ll return.” Though the Melusine saga may have been a beloved tale in parts of Europe, such was not the case everywhere. The tale seems to have been equally well-known in England, but not equally well-liked. In his book The Conquering Family, Thomas B. Costain writes:

“The counts of Anjou and their lovely but wicked wives gained such an unsavory reputation over the centuries that the people of England were appalled when they found that one of them (Geoffrey) was to become King of England.”

This notwithstanding, the House of Plantagenet provided England with some of its most noteworthy monarchs, many of whom admitted to having a soft spot in their hearts for their mythical matriarch, Melusine. Richard the Lionhearted even cited his purportedly Luciferian heritage as being the reason why his family “lacked the natural affections of mankind.”

The story of Melusine had such an impact on the French psyche that to this very day in some parts of France, “Melusines” (ginger cookies shaped like a woman with serpent’s tail) are sold on May Day. The fact that so many people have seemingly taken this unusual tale at face value seems rather unfathomable to the modern mind. Stranger still, why would a family putatively descended from Christ and King David so publicly include in their family tree the figure of a woman half-human and half-serpent?

It would appear that due to the highly improbable nature of this tale, it has been dismissed entirely by scholars and historians as pure folklore. Yet the members of this family (the Grail family) are no strangers to the adroit implementation of symbolism. Never has their use of symbolism been gratuitous. It is employed to reveal to the initiated precisely what it conceals from the uninitiated. And the imagery associated with Melusine is very specific in its connotations: it refers to the patriarch Adam’s first wife Lillith, who is depicted in cabalistic tradition as a naked human female with a serpent’s tail for her lower half. For us, this suggests that the Merovingians were consciously trying to keep alive an esoteric tradition - one which holds great secrets relating to the true nature of their sacred bloodline.

Lucifer’s Children

Conventional wisdom has it that the Grail bloodline is sacred because it came from Christ, a man still considered by much of the world to be the true son of God. And yet the dynasty of kings who descended from this bloodline were known as sorcerer-kings, some of whom hinted or even stated outright that they were in fact descendants of Lucifer. A number of authors claim this thesis is true, but they are predominantly hardcore Christian conspiracy theorists, and stop well short of explaining why they believe this, or of giving any tangible details to substantiate their claims. Says author Fritz Springmeier in The Bloodlines of the Illuminati: “In typical Gnostic fashion, descendants of the Merovingians claim to have the blood of both Christ and Satan in their veins.” Given the fact that this theme (or a variation of it) recurs with some regularity, and given that it would appear to be consistent with the sort of dualism which permeats the story of this bloodline, we began to wonder if there might not be some traditions from which such a notion could have arisen. At length, several were discovered.

Firstly, let us recall that this bloodline descended from a figure who equates with the biblical Cain. In certain rabbinic lore, we come across the very interesting notion that Cain was not the son of Adam, but of Samael. It was thought that when Samael appeared to Eve as a serpent, he seduced her. The fruit of that union was Cain. Samael was a fallen angel, essentially the Judaic Lucifer. If the Merovingians knew of this version of the story (which they no doubt did), and believed it, it could be the basis of their alleged assertion that they possessed the blood of both Christ and Lucifer. This notion is expressed in a famous poem by Charles Peguy, which states:


“The arms of Jesus are the Cross of Lorraine,

Both the blood in the artery and the blood in the vein,

Both the source of grace and the clear fountaine;

The arms of Satan are the Cross of Lorraine,

And the same artery and the same vein,

And the same blood and the troubled fountaine.”

Some apocryphal versions of the story of Cain proclaim that he was the son of Adam and Lillith, not Eve. Before becoming Adam’s first wife, Lillith had been the consort of God before coming to Earth as a fallen angel. The full details of her story are probably too well-known to bear repeating here, but it is interesting that of the two alternate traditions concerning Cain’s parentage, both involve the Luciferian Nephilim bloodline. Also of interest is the fact that the lily is known to have taken its name from Lillith, and the heraldic device emblematic of this bloodline is the fleur-de-lys (widely accepted as symbolic of the lily). Could not this symbol, viewed within this context, in fact be the Flower of Lillith?

The Lillith/Samael connection is also pertinent in regards to our investigation because both Lillith and Samael are traditionally held to be the parents of the demon Asmodeus.1 Not only is Asmodeus the dominant image (shown mirroring Christ) in Rennes-le-Chateau, he is said to have played the central role in building the Temple of Solomon, the edifice from which the Knights Templar took their name. The recurrence of this strange figure in Grail lore has long perplexed observers, yet it would appear that both he and the descendants of Cain may in fact have shared a kindred ancestry. It is even said in some traditions that it was Asmodeus whom Moses called upon to part the Red Sea, and not God. Though portrayed as a demon or devil figure, his name reveals that he may not always have been viewed as such, for “Asmodeus” translates simply to “the Lord God.” (“Ashma” means “lord”, and “deus” means “god.”)

Luciferian imagery is implied the presence of “the Elohim” of The Book of Genesis, where they are quoted as saying: “Let us make man in our image.” The word “Elohim” is translated simply as “God” in the King James Bible, but it is clearly a plural noun, as plural words in the Hebrew language end in the letters “im.” In fact, “the Elohim” are widely believed by many researchers to be identical with the Nephilim, the fallen angels known as the Watchers in The Book of Enoch. It is believed that “Elohim” comes from the much more ancient Babylonian word, “Ellu”, which means “Shining Ones.” This phrase has a distinctively Luciferian connotation, because the name “Lucifer” literally means “lightbearer.” And the descendants of Cain, who were the deified kings of Sumeria, were sometimes called “the Ari”, a term which also meant “Shining Ones.” The Sumerian pictogram for “Ari” or “Ar”, as noted earlier, is an inverted pentagram, a symbol long associated with Lucifer. And the phrase “Shining Ones” would be a very apt description for the descendants of Enoch’s fallen angels, who were said to have hair as white as snow, pale eyes, and pale skin which seemed literally to glow and fill the room with light. The Sumerian Ari are almost always depicted as wearing crowns bearing horns, and some of their descendants were reputed in legend to have had horns. For instance, the most famous statue of Moses (that of Michelangelo) depicts him with horns atop his forehead, not wholly inappropriate for someone who may be a blood relation of Asmodeus. Theologians protest that they are not horns, but merely rays of light. Yet even rays of light suggest a Luciferian subtext. Alexander the Great declared himself the son of a god, and he too was said to have horns. In fact, to this very day, if you talk to people in certain Iranian villages (who speak of his invasion as though it happened last week), they will tell you in all solemnity Alexander had horns, and that he wore his hair long to cover this up.

One cannot but admit that Cain seems to have engendered his own tradition, as evidenced in a strange Gnostic sect called the Cainites (named after the race of Cain’s descendants). Like the Carpocrateans, the Cainites believed that no one could be saved except by “making the journey through everything.” Epiphanius describes them as a group “consecrating... lustful or illegal acts to various heavenly beings” as a sort of sacrament. Interestingly, many scholars compare them to Satanists.

The extent to which the Merovingians knew of these alternate traditions is uncertain. Whether or not they believed in them is more uncertain still, yet it remains likely that they both knew about these traditions and took them quite seriously. To this very day, the coat of arms of the capital of the Merovingian empire, Stenay, bears an image of the Devil. In fact, the original name of Stenay was “Satanicum.” And the area Rennes-le-Chateau also contains many geographical references to the Devil. In addition to the Asmodeus statue at the church, there is an ancient stone monument in Rennes-le-Bains called “the Devil’s Armchair”, and there are hundreds of years worth of local legends pertaining to the appearance of the Devil on numerous occasions.

Seeing that this Luciferian legacy played such a prominent role in the Merovingian mythos, we wondered if traces of it could be detected in the Bible and other related texts. In short order, we were able to discern an abundance of such material. What caught our attention the most were a number of stories which seemed very suggestive of the idea that certain key patriarchs were descendants of the Watchers. Take, for example, the story of Abraham, the first proselyte of monotheism, and a figure central in all three major monotheistic religions. His birth was, according to apochryphal traditions, foreseen in the stars by none other than King Nimrod, who felt threatened by the birth of Abraham, and effected a “slaughter of the innocents”-type scenario, in which 70,000 male children were put to death - in an effort to neutralize him.2 Consequently, his mother fled to the wilderness to give birth to him in a cave. As author Louis Ginzberg states in Legends of the Jews, upon Abraham’s birth, “The whole cave was filled with the light of the child’s countenance, as with the splendor of the Sun...” Compare this description with that in The Book of Enoch, where it was said that Lamech’s son Noah, “...illuminated all the house, like the Sun; the whole house abounded with light.”

A further indication that Abraham was of the Nephilim bloodline is that according to this version of the story, Abraham’s mother left him in that cave alone for twenty days, and upon returning, she did not even recognize him because he had “grown very big.” He was as large as a full-grown man and could both speak and walk - surely an indication of some divine supernatural ancestry. In fact, later chroniclers state unambiguously that Abraham was a giant. Like certain of his illustrious forebears, Abraham was also a great builder. Legends of the Jews tells us that:

“[Abraham] built a city for [his sons through his slave Hagar], surrounded by an iron wall, so high that the sun could not shine into the city... Also Abraham taught them the black art, wherewith they held sway over demons and spirits.”

Here we have a preeminent biblical patriarch as a practicioner of black magic, the forbidden art taught to man by the Watchers. And Abraham is not unique in this regard. Later figures such as Moses and Solomon were also said to be sorcerers. If three of the most important Old Testament figures were practicioners of the black arts, might not one reasonably conclude that an occult doctrine or tradition was perhaps central to the creed that eventually evolved into Judaism, and later Christianity? We will explore this idea (and the figure of Abraham) in greater depth later on, but first we will revisit the story of Jacob.

It was the tale of Jacob’s Ladder that provided the point of departure for most of our subsequent research, and we have since discovered alternate versions of the tale in which the symbolism is much more vivid. For example, in an apocryphal book called The Ladder of Jacob, 1:1-6, we read:

“He found a place and laying his head on a stone, he slept there, for the sun had gone down. He had a dream and behold a ladder was fixed on the earth, whose top reached to heaven. And the top of the ladder was the face of a man, carved out of fire. There were 12 steps leading to the top of the ladder, and at each step leading to the top were human faces, on the right and on the left... and the face [on top was] one of fire... [and was] exceedingly terrifying...”

The ladder in Jacob’s dream could be construed as representing a direct lineal connection between God and man, or the sons of God and man - the Nephilim patrimony of the twelve tribes of Israel fathered by Jacob. The “exceedingly terrifying” face of fire at the ladder’s apex is assumed to be God, although it could certainly be deemed a Luciferian apparition as well. The notion that the ladder represents the descent of the twelve tribes seems to be borne out by the twelve steps of the ladder, one for each of Jacob’s future sons. We find support for this idea in The Legends of the Jews, which tells Jacob’s story in greater detail.:

“Jacob took twelve stones from the altar on which his father Isaac had lain bound as sacrifice, and he said: ‘It was the purpose of God to let twelve tribes arise, but they have not been begotten by Abraham or Isaac. If now these 12 stones unite into a single one, then I shall know for a certainty that I am destined to become father of the twelve tribes.’ At this point a ... miracle came to pass; the twelve stones joined together and made one, which he put under his head, and at once it became soft and downy like a pillow... He dreamed a dream in which the course of world history was unfolded to him.”

The dream of Jacob’s Ladder is both a memory and a prophecy. It both foretells the coming of the twelve tribes, and alludes to their fallen angel lineage. In a bizarre addendum to this story, Jacob annoints the stone that served as his pillow with oil descended directly from Heaven, and then God casts the stone into “the Abyss” to serve as the cornerstone for his temple. But why would God want the cornerstone for His temple to be in the Abyss? Could it be because Jehovah’s Sumerian prototype, Ia, was known as “the Lord of the Abyss”?

The Serpent Messiah

One of the oddest symbols used frequently in reference to the Grail bloodline, and often in wildly unexpected contexts, is that of the serpent. We are all familiar with the serpent of Genesis, as the premier villian of Christian theology - the Devil himself. Consequently, the serpent has come to be viewed as emblematic of evil. How then are we to explain the strange episode, found in the Old Testament and in apocryphal Jewish legends, in which God instructs Moses to consturct a magical bronze serpent, the mere sight of which would save Israelites and bring death to their enemies? In some versions of this tale it was said that this serpent could cure men bitten by poisonous snakes. Others went so far as to say that it could actually save their souls. Biblical scholar James Kugel, commenting on the story, said this:

“The bronze serpent fashioned by Moses greatly troubled ancient interpreters. After all, a man-made object that had to power to cure snake bites if one simply looked at it - did this not smack more of magic than proper belief? What was worse, this same bronze serpent was later said to have become an object of idolotry in itself.”

The explanations arrived at by ancient interpreters are less than satisfactory. They claimed that it was not the snake which saved people, but God, and that by beholding it, they were beholding Him. But this fails to explain why a graven image was made to portray God, or why God would be symbolized as a serpent. Every conceivable aspect of this story is utterly in variance with what we know about orthodox Christianity or early Judaism. Another version of the tale, related in The Letter of Barnabas, says:

“...the Spirit, speaking to the heart of Moses, [tells him] to make a representation of the cross and of him who was to suffer upon it... Moses therefore made a graven serpent.”

This is very bizarre indeed. Not only do we have God represented as a serpent, but Christ as well. And it gets more interesting still. In the cabalistic science known as “gematria” (in which words are reduced to numbers), words sharing the same numeric value are viewed as having an identical essence on a higher level of meaning. In gematria, the words “messiah” and “serpent” can both be reduced to the same number: 358. So in cabalistic terms, the messiah and the serpent are one and the same.

For some gnostics and early Christian sects, the serpent of Genesis was viewed not as the villiain of the book, but as the hero. It was he, after all, who brought divine wisdom to man. God had told Adam not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, for if he did he “would surely die.” But Adam and Eve did eat the fruit, and they didn’t die. In other words, God was wrong and the serpent was right. The serpent told the truth, and God had lied. Certain Gnostics and Christians thought that this was surely the intended subtext of Genesis. Evidence that they may have been correct can be seen in what amounts to an Aramaic pun. In this now-dead language, used at the time of Christ, the words for “serpent” and “to instruct” are nearly identical. The serpent had instructed Eve to eat of the Tree of Life, and in following his advice, she gained wisdom. Viewed in this light, how could the serpent not be seen as the hero of Genesis?

As previously noted, in Jewish apocrypha, there is a story in which Eve is seduced by the serpent of Eden (Samael), and it is he, not Adam, who fathers of Cain. Could this strange tradition have something to do with Moses and Christ, possibly Cain’s descendants, being connected to serpent symbolism? Perhaps. Both men were obviously privy to the traditions connected with their family - traditions that have not come down to us through mainstream Christianity. Some sects, such as the Ophite Gnostics, have promoted theologies which explicitly identify Christ with the serpent. According to author Stephen Flowers in Lords of the Left-Hand Path, these groups felt that:

“Christ came as a manifestation of the light-bearing serpent... The serpent brought humanity knowledge (gnosis) of good and evil (Genesis 3:1-7), and can further aid man in getting the fruit of eternal life, thus making man like God, or like Christ.”

Though this is purely a philosophical abstraction, it is interesting insofar as one would not logically expect to find even a single tradition in which Christ was identified as a serpent, let alone several. Yet the examples from Moses, the cabala, and the Ophite Gnostics would seem to indicate that people had some concrete reason for making such a connection. We know that for many years following the death of Moses, the bronze serpent made by him became a sacred object of idolotry for the early Israelites.

In some schools of esoteric Christianity, it is thought that the cross of Christ is synonymous with the Tree of Life. There is even a very old Latin motto which, when translated, states: “The wood of the Cross is the Tree of Knowledge.” If the cross of Christ is symbolically equal to the Tree of Life, it follows that Christ would likewise be emblematic of the serpent who dwelt in that Tree. This may explain an otherwise inexplicable but nonetheless common alchemical motif: the crucified snake. Though in the context of Christian iconography, this repreated identification of Christ with the serpent appears to make little or no sense, if one looks to religious ideas prominent well before the advent of Judaism, the symbolism is a perfect fit.

In many ancient cultures, such as Egypt, poisonous serpents were venerated. In Chaldea, they were symbols of God and of the Sun. This has caused some scholars to misconstrue the Chaldeans as being superstitious “snake worshippers”, but such is not the case. The serpent as a religious icon embodies a very high degree of sophisticated symbolism. Serpents are perhaps among the most earthbound of creatures, and yet were identified with the Sun. For the Chaldeans, this would have signified the union of Heaven and Earth, or spirit and matter. This is precisely the symbolism inherent in the notion of Christ: an intersection of attributes both heavenly and earthly, both human and divine. Because serpents shed their skin, they were associated with the idea of death and resurection, of rebirth and immortality. Once again, these are the same ideas central to the mythos of Christ.

A vestage of this so-called “serpent worship” can be found in an obscure Judaic sect called the Naasenes.3 The Naasean doctrine posited that God was a primordial hermaphrodite, as was Adam. The sect chose the serpent as a representation of God because it was thought that snakes possessed both sexes, and thus the power of self-generation. It was a creature like unto God. Is it possible that Christ, the serpent messiah, was a Naasene? Perhaps. It can be shown that the moniker “Jesus of Nazareth” is a misnomer, since the town of Nazareth did not exist at the time of Christ, which is why some protestant churches now refer to him as “Jesus the Nazarene” instead. The authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail have speculated that Jesus was a Nazorean, another obscure Jewish sect of whom Samson was a follower. But given the serpent imagery found in alternate traditions of the life of Christ, might not the “Naasene hypothesis” be every bit as likely? After all, it was prophecized that the messiah would take the form of a serpent as early as the time of The Book of Exodus.

That there is a conncetion between the Naasean tradition and that of Chaldea seems highly likely. Chaldea’s deified kings were associated symbolically with both the Sun and the serpent, and were viewed to be “sons of the Sun”, or sons of God. The solar/serpentine motif shows up in the names of many ancient gods and kings, including some central to our own investigation. The name “Marduk” can be translated as “Son of the Sun” of “Son of the Lord”, as “duk” means both “sun” and “lord”, but “mar” can also mean “serpent”, giving this title the alternate meaning “Serpent of the Sun”, or “Serpent of the Lord.” As you may recall, the name of the South American tutelary deity “Quetzlcoatl” is also said to mean “Serpent of the Sun.” In ancient Egypt the word for “serpent” was “sir”, which allows us to translate “Osiris” as “Sun Serpent Lord.” And the name of the Chaldean tutelary deity “Oannes” can be translated into the nearly identical “Sun Lord Serpent.” Furthermore, you will recall that the South American god “Noach Yum Chac” (obviously connected with Noah) is supposed to have written a text titled Proof that I am a Serpent.

Though the serpent imagery is obviously mere symbolism, it nonetheless constitutes a symbol central to the identity of the Watchers and their offspring - one taken seriously by them, as it would later be by the Merovingians. Could it be a symbol of their heritage, derived from some illustrious (or perhaps sacred) forebear, a figure intimately connected to the idea of the solar serpent, perhaps one of the Chadeans’ deified kings? It is quite possible. If this were the case, it would explain the legend of the serpent fathering Cain. You will note that the serpent heritage which was such a matter of pride for the god-kings of other cultures was a cause for shame in the context of Judaism. In the Judeo-Christian version of events, the Original Sin is miscegenation, not disobedience. Could it be that the woman presented in all monotheistic religions as the primordial matriarch was in fact seduced by a Chaldean king? The name “Samael” may hold some clues. It consists of “Sam”, which means “Sun”, and “ael”, which means “Son of God.” So Samael is a serpent who represents both the Sun and the Son of God, precisely the symbolism associated with Chaldean kings. Is this the reason that Cain, a man remembered by other cultures as a mighty king and a builder of great cities, was villianized and written out of the Old Testament almost entirely? Very possibly so.

It is assumed that Cain’s bloodline disappeared from Biblical events at the same time he vanished East of Eden, and that subsequent patriarchs derived their descent from Adam’s “third son”, Seth. However, a close examination of the genealogies connected to Cain and Seth reveals that such may not be the case. Except for a few extra names added to the list of Seth’s descendants, the two genealogies are nearly identical.

Cain’s descendants are: Enoch, Irad, Mahujael, Methusael, Lamech.

Seth’s descendants are: Enos, Cainan, Mhalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Mathuselah, Lamech

The correspondances should be obvious: “Jared” is “Irad”, “Mathuselah” is “Mahujael”, and so on. Both lists contain “Lamech”, and both contain “Enoch” (with an additional “Enos” to further confuse things.) It is as though the authors are retaining the true history, yet falsifying it just enough to throw off all but the most attentive reader. And indeed, the similarities have not passed unnoticed. Many Biblical scholars have commented on these odd genealogies, some suggesting that the one descending from Seth was an obvious fabrication, and that such a figure probably never existed. Cain had to be written out of Jewish history for some reason, but this task must have been quite difficult, because he was a very famous figure in the ancient world, known for having erected great cities across the length and breadth of Sumer and Chaldea. He built Ninevah, Erech, Agade (Akkad), and Lagash. He was looked to as a founding father by nations and cultures that seemingly had no connection to Jewish history. He built Babylon, and Babylonians were generally viewed as the natural-born enemies of the Jewish nation. Curiously, he appears to be a figure both central to Jewish history, and perplexingly outside of it.

There is perhaps more written in the Bible about Cain under his guise as King Nimrod of Babylon than there is written about Cain proper. The historical figure of Nimrod can, as we have shown, be conclusively identified with Cain, and like Cain, he is another character roundly demonized in the Old Testament. (He is also portrayed as having lived long after the time of Cain, something we clearly disagree with.) In early Jewish and Christian texts he is depicted as a fierce tyrant, a giant who hunted humans, and a king who “waged war against God.” But in the kingdoms he left behind he was worshipped as a god centuries after his death, and later kings would claim to be Nimrod reincarnated.

The Chaldean Connection

The genealogy of the Merovingian bloodline has for centuries been shrouded in mystery, and yet, we have been able to definitively trace it back to the Shepherd Kings of ancient Sumer. Subsequently, we have managed to fine-tune the focus of our investigation further still and many indications (both ancient and modern) seem to suggest that the role played by Chaldea was of pivotal importance. For instance, in The Book of Genesis, we are told that the Biblical patriarch Abraham was “a Chaldean from Ur.” For most readers, this seemingly insignificant factoid would undoubtedly slip by unnoticed, but to the student of ancient cultures, it is pregnant with portent, because Chaldea was known to be a Mecca of astronomy, astrology, and the black arts. So much so, in fact, that the word “Chaldean” in many ancient cultures was synonymous with “sorcerer.” Even so far away as Northern Europe, their term for sorcerer, “galdyr”, was rooted in “Chaldee.” The authors of Genesis obviously did their utmost to distance the figure of Abraham from the occult traditions of Chaldea, yet Abraham still appears to be an occultist both in biblical and extra-biblical texts. Note the following quote from Pseudo Eupolemus:

“Abraham excelled all in nobility and wisdom; he sought and obtained the knowledge of astrology and the Chaldean craft... he traveled to Phoenicia and dwelt there. He pleased the Phoenician king by teaching the Phoenicians the cycles of the Sun and Moon, and everything else as well... [in Egypt] Abraham lived in Heliopolis with the Egyptian priests and taught them much: He explained astrology and the other sciences to them.”


From Artapanus:

“Abraham... came to Egypt with all his household to the Egyptian king Pharothothes and taught him astrology.”


And from Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews:

“...before the coming of Abraham, the Egyptians were ignorant of these sciences, which thus traveled from the Chaldeans into Egypt, [and then] passed to the Greeks.”

It is clear from these quotes that Abraham travelled far and wide not to preach the gospel of the “one true God”, but rather to spread the wisdom of the Chaldean craft. These Chaldean sciences seem to echo the teachings of the Watchers, and pertained to geometry, astronomy, and the movements of the planets and stars. Compare the lore of the Watchers to what Philo records about the Chaldeans:

“The Chaldeans exercised themselves most especially with astronomy, and attributed all things to the movement of the stars, believing that whatever is in the world is governed by forces encompassed in numbers and numerical proportions... seeking out the numerical arrangement according to the cycles of the Sun and Moon, the planets, and the fixed stars… .”


The parallels between the Watchers and the Chaldeans become greater still when viewed in the light of a tradition cited by Eusebius, who wrote: “Abraham traced his ancestry to the giants. These dwelt in the land of Babylonia. Because of their impiety, they were destroyed by the gods.” So there you have it. These two traditions (of the Watchers and of the Chaldeans) sound so identical because they are identical - one and the same. Were the Chaldeans the descendants of the Watchers, and executors of their tradition? Such an idea is certainly reinforced by the fact that the Hebrew word for “Watcher” is “Ir”, which sounds similar to the name of the Chaldean city “Ur”, as well as “Ar”, the Sumerian word mentioned previously that is symbolized by the pentagram (and means “Shining Ones”). Also, the Watchers were called specifically, “the watchers of the heavens”, a very appropriate title for a people (like the Chaldeans) so preoccupied by astronomy. Could it be that Ur was the primordial city-state of the Watchers? Very possibly. Ur is considered so ancient that to the modern mind it has become synonymous with antiquity itself. All of this would appear to suggest that Abraham’s status as a Chaldean from Ur may indeed be very telling. It also seems that Abraham is far more than merely a man who “traced his ancestry to the giants.” Remember, it was said that “Abraham excelled all in nobility and wisdom.” In ancient times “nobility” did not refer to a man’s demeanor - it meant of noble birth. And as we will ultimately reveal, the figure known as Abraham was of very noble birth indeed.

For the time being however, we will continue our study of the Chaldean saga by looking into the story of King Gudia. Though one of the most illustrious of the Sumerian/Chaldean monarchs, Gudia remains a relatively obscure personage in terms of mainstream history. Gudia was both priest-king and architect, a builder of great cities and temples, not unlike Cain/Nimrod. And it just so happens that Nimrod was Gudia’s patron saint, as well as having been his ancestor. Gudia was like many of the Old Testament prophets, in that he was prone to dreams and vision. In one such dream, Nimrod himself appeared to the king, revealing to him the blueprints of a temple he wished to be erected in his honor. Upon waking, Gudia lost no time setting in motion plans to construct the Temple of Nimrod, a structure that would eventually be seen as one of the most magnificant edifices of its day.

The reign of Gudia witnessed a flourishing of culture and civilization in his region. He wandered the full length and breadth of Mesopotamia (and often beyond) to amass lumber, blocks, and precious metals for his many projects. He not only built new cities and temple, but rebuilt old ones as well. Ruling from his capitols of Lagash and Ur, he preferred not to be seen as a king, but rather as a priest and prophet. He was known simply as the “Good Shepherd”, and may in fact have refused the title of king (although his name does appear in the King’s List.)

Of all the many kings that reigned over Chaldea or Sumer, only a handful of their names are known outside of specialist circles, or from readings of the Old Testament. Those that come to mind are Sargon, Kamurabi, Assurbanipal, and a few others. Why, then (or how) could a man of Gudia’s stature have simply vanished into the mists of history? A possible answer was suggested upon reading that in Gudia’s time and culture there were no letters equivalent to “G” or “I.” Substituting the closest equivalent to those letters results in something both startling and altogether unexpected: Judea.

Is it be possible that Judah, the son of Jacob from whom Jews derive their name, could in fact have been a Chaldean priest-king? Are Gudia and Judah one and the same? Turning to the Old Testament in search of information that would either corroborate or disprove altogether such a bizarre thesis revealed passages so scant and so strange as to be of no help whatsoever in either regard. Further searches in Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews and Louis Ginzberg’s Legends of the Jews proved equally fruitless. How could a man from whom the entire Jewish tribe adopted their name be so little documented in three such major works documenting Jewish history and folklore? It was both perplexing and mysterious, like trying to conceive of a New Testament that featured only a half-dozen off-handed references to Christ. It defied all logic. And it seemed that logic was the only means left to pierce this apparent conspiracy of silence.

So it was that the ancient Chaldean King’s List was consulted again, the reasoning being that if Gudia and Judah were the same figure, perhaps other names in close proximity on the list might have a familiar ring. Four lines above Gudia on the list was a king named “Irarum.” Though not precisely identical to “Abraham”, it was the only name on the list with so familiar a ring to it. Remember that these names were not only spelled and pronounced differently from culture to culture, but also often in the same culture. Irarum had a son named “Dar”, who also went by the title “Asahk” (literally, “Son of God”). Asahk’s son was “Khab” (or “Khabulum”), and his son in turn took the royal title “Akhab” (“Son of Khab”). He in turn fathered Gudia. So if we take into account the sound of these names in their respective order, we arrive at something quite extraordinary:


“Irarum” is the same as “Abraham”

“Asahk” is the same as “Issac”

“Akhab” is the same as “Jacob”

“Gudia” is the same as “Judah”


So with one notable exception (the extra figure of “Khab” or “Khabulum”), we find in the Chaldean King’s List an almost perfect reflection of the Old Testament line of patriarchs.

At this point it is virtually impossible to ascertain what any of this really means. Were the Chaldeans all Jews? Were the people who called themselves Jews really Chaldeans? Were both merely different nations or tribes of an essentially Sumerian populace? Could it be that the so-called “Shepherdic Jews” were not so named because they had been shepherds, but because they claimed descent from a priest-king known as the “Good Shepherd”? Remember that this was the same title used to refer to Christ, who acted in the capacity of a priest-king without a throne. Christ, too, is said in some early traditions to have been a Chaldean, an idea we will explore in due course.

The Chaldean tradition, and its secret gnosis, is intimately linked with astronomy, astrology, geometry, architecture, and magic; all topics central to our ongoing inquiries. But there’s more. It was said that Gudia practiced the “Chaldean rite” of bull sacrifice - a practice that passed from Chaldea to Egypt, and eventually, to many parts of the ancient world. Significantly, this rite is said to have originated in Atlantis, and Gudia, like the Atlantean kings, kept the sacrificial bulls in his own palace. Further, when Gudia’s ancestor appeared to him in a vision and gave him specifications for the construction of a magnificent temple, the building thus erected was a seven-stepped ziggurat. Legend tells us that an identical structure once existed as the royal palace on Atlantis.

By reviving Atlantean architecture and religious ritual, Gudia seemed to be trying to build a bridge between the past and the present, or to reconstitute the past in the present. His chosen title, “Gudia” (“Lord/King Ia”) harkens back to Sumer’s first deified king. Within two centuries of his death, Babylonians worshipped him as the “Divine Gudia”, and put statues of him in their temples. The reign of Gudia is reckoned by some scholars to have been around 2400 BC. By the time Judaism began to coalesce some 900 years later, Gudia and his illustrious forebears would have become mythic figures in an oral tradition. Though there is little proof beyond what we have presented to link the figures of Gudia and Judah, there are references to Judah being a ruling king in rabbinic lore, including descriptions of a crown, royal scepter, and royal signet ring. And although orthodox Judaism seems to have rejected most of what constitutes the Chaldean tradition, there are indications that these ideas were preserved on a sub rosa level, to reemerge later in a most unexpected context.


Christ the Chaldean

And did those feet in ancient time

Walk upon England’s mountain green?

And was the Holy Lamb of God

On England’s pleasant pastures seen?

- William Blake, Jerusalem


As the above lines from William Blake’s 18th century poem Jerusalem reveal, the tradition that Christ came to England is one that is both widespread and long-standing. Indeed, Roman chroniclers began referring to it as early as the reign of Tiberius Caesar, who died in 37 AD (only four short years after the presumed date of Christ’s own death). It was in Glastonbury, Cornwall, that the first Christian church was built, purportedly by Christ himself.

For those unfamiliar with the story, it is well-documented that Christ’s uncle, Joseph of Arimathea made frequent trips to England in the course of his travels as a tin merchant. As the story goes, Jesus often accompanied his uncle on these journeys, and ended up spending a good deal of time in Cornwall during his well-known “lost years.” It was here that he conducted the early years of his ministry, and legend records that he constructed a rather large house for the habitation of his mother, Mary. It was this house which, pursuant to the crucifixion, became recognized as the first Christian church in the world. And this first Christian church was known by a number of names, such as “the wattle church”, “the old church”, and perhaps most significantly, “the Culdee church.” In other words, “the Chaldean church.”

In Thomas Campbell’s Reullura, we read:

“The pure Culdees

Were Alby’s4 earliest priests of God

Ere yet an island of her seas

By foot of Saxon monk was trod.”


In E. Raymond Capt’s marvelous book The Traditions of Glastonbury, he states: “The first converts of the Culdees... were the Druids of Britain, who found no difficulty in reconciling the teaching of the Culdees with their own teaching of the resurrection and the inheritance of eternal life.” In addition, the Druids had long believed in the coming of a messiah - a messiah named “Jesu.” They also shared the Chaldean preoccupation with sacred geometry and astronomy. And too, they had the odd habit of referring to God as “the ancient of days.” Clearly these two groups’ traditions had a shared origin of some sort. Capt continues:

“Culdees are recorded in church documents as officiating at St. Peter, York, until AD 939. According to some church authorities, the Canons of York were called ‘Culdees’ as late as the reign of Henry II (AD 1133-1189). In Ireland, a whole county was named ‘Culdee.’ The names ‘Culdee’ and ‘Culdish’ cling tenaciously to the Scottish church, and its prelates until a much later date.”

The Culdee phenomenon appears to be little known, little discussed, and even less understood. Nonetheless, over the centuries a fascinating number of theories and legends have become attached to them: theories and legends that are all the more fascinating in that they seem to overlap with much of our own research. What follows are some of the fundamental assumptions held about the Culdees, as collected and preserved by Arthur Edward Waite in his New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry:

The Culdees were Druids.

They were identical with the Chaldeans mentioned by the prophet Daniel.

They were priests in Assyria and can also be traced to Babylon.

They were Casideans, Essenes, Therapeutae, and Magi.

Beneath their cloak of Christianity they concealed a secret doctrine.

They were mathematicians and architects at the time of the early Roman emperors.

They were the builders of King Solomon’s Temple.

The Culdees of York were all Masons.

They denied the personality of Jesus - meaning the historical personality - and also the existence of the Devil.

The Culdee monks were the schoolmasters and architects of their time.

It was thought that the historical allegory of the Round Table, as well as the quest for the Holy Grail, referred in mystical terms to Culdee rites.

If the foregoing statements are indeed accurate, it would appear that there was the presence of a Templar-like fraternity in England for a full thousand years before the advent of the Knights Templar. And not just in England, but throughout the British Isles. The Culdees had commandaries, schools and churches in Wales, Ireland and Scotland as well. It is said that despite pressure from Rome, the Culdees remained a very strong presence right up to the time of the Norman conquest5, which began in 1066. The timeframe here seems highly significant, as 1066 is only a few decades before the founding of the Order of Sion and the Knights Templar by Godfroi de Bouillon in 1090.

Is it purely coincidental that an organization whose history spans over a thousand years should essentially vanish, and in a matter of mere decade a group whose outlook seems nearly identical should emerge in another part of the world? Most of what the historians assert about the Culdees is incredibly similar to what was said of the Templars. Let us compare: both groups were said to possess a secret doctrine which they concealed behind the facade of Christianity. Both groups denied Christ in a sense. Both groups were architects. And both groups were associated with the Holy Grail, as well as with Solomon’s Temple.

There definitely seems to be a continuity of belief, purpose and action between the two groups. Certainly the mystery surrounding both groups appears to be the same mystery. But if these two groups represent different manifestations of the same esoteric tradition, it is not simply a tradition whose origin came about after the crucifixion of Christ. The tradition can clearly be traced to the Chaldean King Gudia, and further still to his role model and patron saint, Nimrod/Cain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 “Asmodeus” contains that root word, “Az”, that was yet another title of Cain.

2 According to Louis Ginzberg, Nimrod did this because he feared Abraham “would rise up against him and triumphantly give the lie to his religion” - a polytheistic cult in which Nimrod himself was worshipped as a god.

3 “Naas” is the Hebrew word for “serpent.”

4 England was then called “Albion.”

5 In other locations, such as Ireland, their influence remained strong well into the fourteenth century.

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:38 PM
http://www.rense.com/general81/jhistory.htm

Jewish History & Myth
'The Lion and the Gazelle'
By Uri Avnery Gush Shalom
4-20-8

Most interesting article written by a prominent Israeli peace activist, journalist and former member of the Israeli Knesset. He discusses the role of myth and the bible and how it relates to Jewish and Israeli history.

--Ed Corrigan

___________

TONIGHT THE JEWS all over the world will celebrate the Seder, the unique ceremony that unites Jews everywhere in the defining Jewish myth: the Exodus from Egypt.

Every year I marvel again at the genius of this ceremony. It unites the whole family, and everyone - from the venerable grandfather to the smallest child - has a role in it. It engages all the senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching. The simplistic text of the Haggadah, the book which is read aloud, the symbolic food, the four glasses of wine, the singing together, the exact repetition of every part every year - all these imprint on the consciousness of a child from the earliest age an ineradicable memory that they will carry with them to the grave, be they religious or not. They will never forget the security and warmth of the large family around the Seder table, and even in old age they will recall it with nostalgia. A cynic might see it as a perfect example of brain-washing.

Compared to the power of this myth, does it really matter that the Exodus from Egypt never took place? Thousands of Egyptian documents deciphered in recent years leave no room for doubt: the exodus of masses of people, as described in the Bible, or anything remotely like it, just never happened. These documents, which cover in the finest detail every period and every part of Canaan during this epoch prove beyond any doubt that there was no "Conquest of Canaan" and no kingdom of David and Solomon. For a hundred years, Zionist archeologists have devoted tireless efforts to finding even a single piece of evidence to support the Biblical narrative, all to no avail.

But this is quite unimportant. In the competition between "objective" history and myth, the myth that suits our needs will always win, and win big. It is not important what was, the important thing is what fires our imagination. That is what guides our steps to this day.

THE BIBLICAL narrative connects up with documented history only around the year 853 BC, when ten thousand soldiers and 2000 battle chariots of Ahab, King of Israel, took part in a grand coalition of the kingdoms of Syria and Palestine against Assyria. The battle, which was documented by the Assyrians, was fought at Qarqar in Syria. The Assyrian army was delayed, if not defeated.

(A personal note: I am not a historian, but for many years I have reflected on our history and tried to draw some logical conclusions, which are outlined here. Most of them are supported by the emerging consensus of independent scholars around the world.)

The kingdoms of Israel and Judea, which occupied a part of the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan, were no different from the other kingdoms of the region. Even according to the Bible itself, the people sacrificed to various pagan deities "on every high hill and under every green tree". (1 Kings 14:23).

Jerusalem was a tiny market town, much too small and much too poor for any of the things described in the Bible to have taken place there at the time. In the books of the Bible that deal with that period, the appellation "Jew" (Yehudi in Hebrew) hardly appears at all, and where it does, it clearly refers simply to an inhabitant of Judea, the area around Jerusalem. When an Assyrian general was asked "talk not with us in the Jewish language" (2 Kings 18:26), what was meant was the local Judean dialect of Hebrew.

The "Jewish" revolution took place in the Babylonian exile (587-539 BC). After the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, members of the Judean elite were exiled to Babylon, where they came into contact with the important cultural streams of the time. The result was one of the great creations of mankind: the Jewish religion.

After some fifty years, some of the exiles returned to Palestine. They brought with them the name "Jews", the appellation of a religious-ideological-political movement, much like the "Zionists" of our time. Therefore, one can speak of "Judaism" and "Jews" - in the sense accepted now - only from then on. During the following 500 years, the Jewish monotheistic religion gradually crystallized. Also at this time, the most outstanding literary creation of all times, the Hebrew Bible, was composed. The writers of the Bible did not intend to write "history", in the sense understood today, but rather a religious, edifying and instructive text.

TO UNDERSTAND the birth and development of Judaism, one must consider two important facts:

(a) Right from the beginning, when the "Jews" came back from Babylon, the Jewish community in this country was a minority among the Jews as a whole. Throughout the period of the "Second Temple", the majority of Jews lived abroad, in the areas known today as Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Cyprus, Italy, Spain and so on.

The Jews of that period were not a "nation" - the very idea did not yet exist. The Jews of Palestine did not participate in the rebellions of the Jews in Libya and Cyprus against the Romans, and the Jews abroad took no part in the Great Revolt of the Jews in this country. The Maccabees were not national but religious fighters, rather like the Taliban in our days, and killed many more "Hellenized" Jews than enemy soldiers.

(b) This Jewish Diaspora was not a unique phenomenon. On the contrary, at that time it was the norm. Notions like "nation" belong to the modern world. During the period of the "Second Temple" and later on, the dominant social-political pattern was a religious-political community enjoying self-government and not attached to any specific territory. A Jew in Alexandria could marry a Jewess in Damascus, but not the Christian woman across the street. She, on her part, could marry a Christian man in Rome, but not her Hellenist neighbor. The Jewish Diaspora was only one of many such communities.

This social pattern was preserved in the Byzantine Empire, was later taken over by the Ottoman Empire and can still be detected in Israeli law. Today, a Muslim Israeli cannot marry a Jewish Israeli, a Druze cannot marry a Christian (at least not in Israel itself). The Druze, by the way, are a surviving example of such a Diaspora.

The Jews were unique only in one respect: after the European peoples gradually moved on to new forms of organization, and in the end turned themselves into nations, the Jews remained what they were - a communal-religious Diaspora.

THE PUZZLE that is occupying the historians is: how did a tiny community of Babylonian exiles turn into a worldwide Diaspora of millions? There is only one convincing answer to that: conversion.

The modern Jewish myth has it that almost all the Jews are descendents of the Jewish community that lived in Palestine 2000 years ago and was driven out by the Romans in the year 70 AD. That is, of course, baseless. The "Expulsion from the Country" is a religious myth: God was angry with the Jews because of their sins and exiled them from His country. But the Romans were not in the habit of moving populations, and there is clear evidence that a great part of the Jewish population in the country remained here after the Zealots' Revolt and after the Bar-Kochba uprising, and that most Jews lived outside the country long before that.

At the time of the Second Temple and later, Judaism was a proselytizing religion /par excellence/. During the first centuries AD it fiercely competed with Christianity. While the slaves and other downtrodden people in the Roman Empire were more attracted to the Christian religion, with its moving human story, the upper classes tended towards Judaism. Throughout the Empire, large numbers adopted the Jewish religion.

Especially puzzling is the origin of "Ashkenazi" Jewry. At the end of the first millennium there appeared in Europe - apparently out of nowhere - a very large Jewish population, the existence of which was not documented before. Where did they come from?

There are several theories about that. The conventional one holds that the Jews wandered from the Mediterranean area to the North, settled in the Rhein valley and fled from the pogroms there to Poland, at the time the most liberal country in Europe. From there they dispersed into Russia and Ukraine, taking with them a German dialect that became Yiddish. The Tel Aviv University scholar Paul Wexler asserts, on the other hand, that Yiddish was originally not a German but a Slavic language. A large part of Ashkenazi Jewry, according to this theory, are descendents of the Sorbs, a Slavic people that lived in Eastern Germany and was forced to abandon its ancient pagan creed. Many of them preferred to become Jews, rather than Christians.

In a recent book with the provocative title "When and How the Jewish People was Invented", the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand argues - like Arthur Koestler and others before him - that most of the Ashkenazi Jews are really descended from the Khazars, a Turkic people that created a large kingdom in what is now South Russia more than a thousand years ago. The Khazar king converted to Judaism, and according to this theory the Jews of Eastern Europe are mostly the descendants of Khazar converts. Sand also believes that most Sephardi Jews are descendents of Arab and Berber tribes in North Africa that had converted to Judaism instead of becoming Muslims, and had joined in the Muslim conquest of Spain.

When Jewry stopped proselytizing, the Jews became a closed, ethnic-religious community (as the Talmud says: "Converts are hard for Israel like a skin disease").

But the historical truth, whatever it is, is not so important. Myth is stronger than truth, and it says that the Jews were expelled from this land. This is an essential layer in modern Jewish consciousness, and no academic research can shake it.

IN THE LAST 300 years, Europe turned "national". The modern nation replaced earlier social patterns, such as the city state, feudal society and the dynastic empire. The national idea carried all before it, including history. Each of these new nations shaped an "imagined history" for itself. In other words, every nation rearranged ancient myths and historical facts in order to shape a "national history" which proclaims its importance and serves as a unifying glue.

The Jewish Diaspora, which - as mentioned before - was "normal" 2000 years ago, became "abnormal" and exceptional. This intensified the Jew-hatred that was anyhow rampant in Christian Europe. Since all the national movements in Europe were - more or less - anti-Semitic, many Jews felt that they were left "outside", that they had no place in the new Europe. Some of them decided that the Jews must conform to the new /Zeitgeist/ and turn the Jewish community into a Jewish "nation".

For that purpose, it was necessary to reshape and reinvent Jewish history and turn it from the annals of a religious-ethnic Diaspora into the epic story of a "nation". The job was undertaken by a man who can be considered the godfather of the Zionist idea: Heinrich Graetz, a German Jew who was influenced by German nationalism and created a "national" Jewish history. His ideas have shaped Jewish consciousness to this day.

Graetz accepted the Bible as if it were a history book, collected all the myths and created a complete and continuous historical narrative: the period of the Fathers, the Exodus from Egypt, the Conquest of Canaan, the "First Temple", the Babylonian Exile, the "Second Temple", the Destruction of the Temple and the Exile. That is the history that all of us learned in school, the foundation upon which Zionism was built.

ZIONISM REPRESENTED a revolution in many fields, but its mental revolution was incomplete. Its ideology turned the Jewish community into a Jewish people, and the Jewish people into a Jewish nation - but never clearly defined the differences. In order to win over the religiously inclined Jewish masses in Eastern Europe, it made a compromise with religion and mixed all terms into a one big cocktail - the religion is also a nation, the nation is also a religion, and later asserted that Israel is a "Jewish state" that belongs to its (Jewish?) citizens but also to the "Jewish people" throughout the world. Official Israeli doctrine has it that Israel is the "Jewish nation state", but Israeli law narrowly defines a "Jew" as only a person who belongs to the Jewish religion.

Herzl and his successors were not courageous enough to do what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk did when he founded modern Turkey: he fixed a clear and sharp border between the Turkish nation and Islamic religion and imposed a complete separation between the two. With us, everything remained one big salad. This has many implications in real life.

For example: if Israel is the state of the "Jewish people", as one of our laws says - what is there to stop an Israeli Jew from joining the Jewish community in California or Australia? Small wonder that there is almost no leader in Israel whose children have not emigrated.

WHY IS IT so important to differentiate between the Israeli nation and the Jewish Diaspora? One of the reasons is that a nation has a different attitude to itself and towards others than a religious-ethnic Diaspora.

Similarly: different animals have different ways of reacting to danger. A gazelle flees when it senses danger, and nature has equipped it with the necessary instincts and physical capabilities. A lion, on the other side, sticks to its territory and defends it against intruders. Both methods are successful, otherwise there would be no gazelles or no lions in the world.

The Jewish Diaspora developed an efficient response that was well suited to its situation: when Jews sensed danger, they fled and dispersed. That's why the Jewish Diaspora managed to survive innumerable persecutions, and even the Holocaust itself. When the Zionists decided to become a nation - and indeed did create a real nation in this country - they adopted the national response: to defend themselves and attack the sources of danger. One cannot, therefore, be a Diaspora and a nation, a gazelle and a lion, at the same time.

If we, the Israelis, want to consolidate our nation, we have to free ourselves from the myths that belong to another form of existence and re-define our national history. The story about the exodus from Egypt is good as a myth and an allegory - it celebrates the value of freedom - but we must recognize the difference between myth and history, between religion and nation, between a Diaspora and a state, in order to find our place in the region in which we live and develop a normal relationship with the neighboring peoples.

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:45 PM
Council of Chalcedon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Council of Chalcedon was the fourth ecumenical council. It was held from 8 October to 1 November 451 at Chalcedon (a city of Bithynia in Asia Minor), today the district of Kadıköy on the Asian side of the Bosphorus, incorporated into the city of Istanbul.

In 325, the first ecumenical council (First Council of Nicaea) established that Christ was God, "consubstantial" with the Father, against Arius's contention that he was a created being. This was reaffirmed at the First Council of Constantinople and the Council of Ephesus. In 449 the Second Council of Ephesus, which is not considered one of the ecumenical councils, implicitly upheld the teaching of Eutyches, that the Son had only one nature, divine and not human. The Council of Chalcedon convened to address this dispute. It set aside the findings of 449, and repudiated the idea that Jesus' mortal nature amounted to nothing. The Chalcedonian Creed describes the "full humanity and full divinity" of Jesus, the second person of the Holy Trinity.


The council also issued 28 canons governing church administration and authority, including one in which the Eastern bishops established "New Rome" (Constantinople) as equal to Rome. Rome did not accept Constantinople as its equal, the Eastern Patriarchs did not accept Rome as their superior, and in 1054 the two sides officially split (see East-West Schism).


The Council of Chalcedon is the fourth of the first seven Ecumenical Councils in Christianity, and is therefore recognized as infallible in its dogmatic definitions by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches (then one church under the Byzantine Empire). The Trinity as defined by these councils is also taken as orthodox among most Protestants. The Council caused a major schism in the church, with those who refused to accept its teaching, now known as Oriental Orthodoxy, being accused of monophysitism.

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:47 PM
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/pharise2.htm

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes

General Information

Essenes
The Essenes were a Jewish religious sect not actually mentioned in the Bible, but described by Josephus, Philo, and mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most members lived communal, celibate lives. They observed Jewish Law very strictly. They practiced ceremonial baptisms. Essenes were apocalyptic, and they opposed Temple priesthood.


Pharisees
The Pharisees were a prominent sect of Jews in Christ's time. They opposed Jesus and His teachings. They plotted His death (Matt 12:14). They were denounced by Him (Matt 23). Their characteristic teachings included: belief in oral as well as written Law; resurrection of the human body; belief in the existence of a spirit world; immortality of the soul; predestination; future rewards and punishments based upon works. Matt 9:11-14; 12:1-8; 16:1-12; 23; Luke 11:37-44; Acts 15:5; 23:6-8.


Sadducees
The Sadducees were another prominent Jewish religious sect in the time of Christ. Their beliefs included: acceptance only of the Law and rejection of oral tradition; denial of bodily resurrection; immortality of the soul; existence of a spirit world (Mark 12:18; Luke 20:27; Acts 23:8). They supported the Maccabeans. The Sadducees were a relatively small group, but they generally held the high priesthood. They denounced John the Baptist (Matt 3:7-8) and Jesus (Matt 16:6,11,12). They actively opposed Christ (Matt 21:12ff; Mark 11:15ff; Luke 19:47) and the apostolic Church (Acts 5:17,33).

The Three Sects of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes
Examination of Their Distinctive Doctrines

more at the link

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:48 PM
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen06.html

Reincarnation and the Early Christians



In December, 1945, early Christian writings containing many secrets of the early Christian religion were found in upper Egypt, a location where many Christians fled during the Roman invasion of Jerusalem. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these manuscripts of Christian mysticism rank in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls. These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians. These Christian mystics, referred to as Christian Gnostics, were ultimately destroyed by the orthodox Church for being heretics. Their sacred writings were destroyed and hidden with the belief that they would be revealed at an appropriate time in the future. The discovery in 1945 yielded writings that included some long lost gospels, some of which were written earlier than the known gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Brian A. Bain, M.A., has this to say about the 1945 discovery:


"Long considered to be heretical, ancient Gnostic Christian texts unearthed this century display compelling similarities between Gnostic conceptions of life and death and modern near-death experiences. The Gnostic texts devoted extensive tracts to what readers could expect to encounter when they died. Other passages make numerous allusions to near-death-like experiences that can be realized in this life, most notably the human encounter with a divine light. The Gnostic Christian literature gives us one more example of NDEs and similar experiences in the ancient world."


Another interesting fact comes from Edgar Cayce (a near-death experiencer) who affirmed that Gnosticism is the highest form of Christianity.

The Christian Gnostics were regarded by some as a new Jewish sect who believed they had finally found the long-awaited Messiah and not a new religion. Some of the apostles became Gnostic and because of this, Christianity could well have grown up as a Gnostic religion had it not been for their eventual persecution by the organized Church centuries later.

The Secret Teachings of Jesus

An important Christian Gnostic teaching was the "Logos" which in Greek is translated as "the image of the Word." It is an important concept found in the gospel of John:


"In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1

more at the link

synergy777
23-04-2008, 03:54 PM
http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2008/04/astronaut-theology-following-followers.html

Terry Melanson of ConspiracyArchive.com raised this very important issue in the comments to yesterday's posting.

So what you seem to be saying, as far as I can tell, is that these "Followers of Horus," the secret priests of the secret society of Shemsu Hor which, according to Egyptian records, existed before time was recorded, are the real string-pullers even today. They have constructed all the competing hermetic and kabbalistic occult doctrines and have been the real "Unknown Superiors" alluded by the Elus Cohen, the Strict Observance, the Golden and Rosy Cross, and Theosophy. And further, that it is these Shemsu Hor who are behind the pervasiveness of sun symbolism?

My answer is yes, I believe it's certainly a thesis that bears investigating. I had the pleasure to meet Graham Hancock a couple years back and we talked about the Shemsu Hor briefly. Graham is a man who's done more research into the Shemsu Hor and the history of secret societies and historical mysteries than anyone, and he emphatically and unambiguously told me that he believes the Shemsu Hor still exist. I have no way to confirm whether that is true, I can only look at their symbols and their beliefs and see how they are manifesting themselves in the culture today (which they are doing everywhere). As to all of the competing doctrines, it's possible, but I don't think that's necessary. There's always imitation and corruption and schism to explain that.

But let me just draw on this passage from the original manuscript of Our Gods Wear Spandex to show how one group can be behind the formation of other movements. In this passage I talk about how Freemasonry seemed to be the figure behind the curtain with a number of alternative religious movements (and several other civic and fraternal groups that we'll be looking at in the future). Terry himself delves into the role of Freemasons in the creation of Theosophy.

Here on the blog I feel free to speculate, but when I publish I feel obliged to stick to established fact. That being said, it's my opinion that the Freemasons were very, very busy in the 19th Century creating any number of movements for purposes I can only speculate on.


The 19th Century also saw the rise of major alternative religious movements, particularly in America. New England seemed to be a particular hotspot for these movements. Three of the most important movements of that time - Christian Science, Transcendentalism and Mormonism - trace their roots there. And all three had important links to Freemasonry.

CHRISTIAN SCIENCE

Here's the domed Mother Church. Notice extremely phallic looking skyscraper in back of it.

The Christian Science Church was based on the doctrines presented in Mary Baker Eddy's 1875 opus, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. Eddy (1821-1919) taught the virtues of healing through faith, preaching that illness was an illusion. To many adherents, this has led to the disavowal of medical science. Christian Science was essentially mystical, and unlike many denominations allowed their adherents to become Freemasons. In 1921, the Masons paid tribute to Eddy by erecting a 11-foot high pyramid at her New Hampshire birthsite, but the Church's embarrassed directors had it destroyed. (See Mary Baker Eddy Letter no. 7, pg. 11)

Christian Science became a popular religion with the educated and with people involved in the arts. The Church built an enormous ‘Mother Church’ in Boston, and founded the influential newspaper The Christian Science Monitor, as well as several other long-running periodicals. Like Scientology in more recent times, Christian Science was popular in Hollywood, counting Frank Capra, Howard Hawks, Henry Fonda, Joan Crawford, Elizabeth Taylor, and Doris Day in its ranks. Monkee Michael Nesmith and former Batman Val Kilmer are both active and practicing Christian Scientists.


THE MORMONS

The Church of Latter-Day Saints, more commonly known as the Mormons, have their origins in hidden scriptures known as 'The Golden Plates,' allegedly revealed by angel named 'Moroni' to Mormon founder Joseph Smith. The Golden Plates claimed that Jewish tribes emigrated to America following the fall of Jerusalem and that Jesus reappeared to them. Though The Book of Mormon is formatted like the Bible, it's contents bear a strange similarity to the 'boy’s adventure' stories of the time. Mormonism is considered to be a pseudo-Christian cult by most Christian denominations, and preaches a cosmology more akin to Gnosticism. Mormon doctrine teaches that God was once a mortal and that men have the potential to become God's themselves. It was also infamous in its time for encouraging polygamy for its male adherents. The Mormons were extremely unpopular in their early days and traveled west to flee persecution. They settled on the great Salt Lake in Utah and began to spread their faith. Mormons are generally conservative and active in Republican party politics. They tend to abstain from vice and have large families. Every young adult Mormon is required to serve two years as a missionary.

Joseph Smith was initiated as a Master Mason in 1842, and many claim that Mormon rituals are based in Freemasonry. It is also believed that Smith had an Occult teacher named Dr. Luman Walter who tutored him in the rites of ceremonial magic and alchemy. Interestingly, Egyptian themed symbols are common in Salt Lake City, including a statue of the Great Sphinx bearing Joseph Smith's likeness. The Golden Plates were recently adapted into comic form by Mormon comic artist Mike Allred (Madman, X-Factor).


TRANSCENDENTALISM

Transcendentalism was essentially blend of Christianity and Eastern thought, which had a strong influence on Theosophy and is generally regarded as the foundation of today's New Age Movement. The Transcendental movement began in September 1836 when Ralph Waldo Emerson founded the Transcendental Club. In January 1842, the Club announced itself to the world with a lecture read by Emerson at the Masonic Temple in Boston. Emerson read texts like The Bhagavad Gita and Buddhist scripture, as well as the writers of Christian mystic Emanuel Swedenborg, and from them developed a philosophy that taught the unity of Creation, and the virtues of mysticism over rationality and logic. Emerson's circle included novelist Nathaniel Hawthorne and philosopher Henry David Thoreau. There was even a Transcendental commune, but it was short-lived (as communes filled with intellectuals usually are).

If that's not enough, I just found evidence of a link between Masonry and Rastafarianism.

It has been suggested that the Rastafarian word for God, Jah, comes from the term Jahbulon. William David Spencer, in his book Dread Jesus (ISBN 0-281-05101-1), proposes that Archibald Dunkley and Joseph Nathaniel Hibbert were among the preachers that inspired the Rastafari movement, and that both were members of the "Ancient Mystic Order of Ethiopia", a fraternal order derived from Prince Hall Freemasonry. Spencer believes that several features of the Rastafari movement derive from this lodge, including the name "Jah", from the word Jah-Bul-On.

But back to Terry's question, could an impossibly ancient society be behind any number of other groups? If so, what power do they have to control so many other powerful individuals and groups? That's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?

The question of compelling force is why so many other conspiracy "master theories" fall apart for me. If 9/11 really was meant as a pretext to institute an American Imperium, why is the dollar dying, why is the Army falling apart and why are huge swathes of the American economy being snapped up at fire sale prices by the Europeans and the Russians and the Chinese? What power do small groups like the Jews or the Jesuits or the British have over a billion plus Chinese, or oil-rich Russia, or the rising powers in the Persian Gulf or industrial giants like Japan? For that matter, what possible power would Freemasonry have? What could be compelling all of these countries to join in this emerging "global community?" (don't you love how the media picked up on that phrase when "New World Order" didn't do well with the focus groups?)

There's something else at work here. Abstractions like nature worship or occultism or fancy aprons cannot possibly be the driving force behind all of this, they just can't. And for me, that's where the work of researchers like Richard Hoagland and Peter Levenda comes in...


------------------------------

is the second sun, the black sun of the thule, the star sirius?

also if yah is jah, then why was jesus called yashua/yeshua=yah is salvation.

also why is the name jah later attributed to satan/masons, how many names does satan have-beezlebub, lucifer, satan, jahbulon, horus/isis/osiris-set, samael etc.

i think we need to go back to chaldea/babylon, egypt and india.

synergy777
23-04-2008, 04:26 PM
http://members.aol.com/maattexts/aquabible/part10.htm

THE YOGA OF CHRIST

SYNOPSIS

One of the noticeable trends in the sixties and seventies has been that of the young towards Eastern forms of meditation. Surely, meditation is neither Eastern nor Western.

(a) Yoga is based on the physical and non-physical bodies.

(b) Religion is based on the physical and non-physical bodies.

Both relate to the union of the Soul with the Godhead. This is the Cosmic Religion based on the Universal Symbol of Man. He is the anthropomorphic archetype of God. Apparently dual as male-female he is destined to become androgynous in later racial evolution.

The eagle and the serpent, the Mexican national emblem, is a universal symbol of the transmutation of the Lower Self (Dan-Scorpio). The eagle on the tree is the ajna chakram at the head of the spine.

The rod and the serpent are symbols of the spine and kundalini in man, the microcosm. In the universe, or macrocosm, the rod is the Milk Way and the serpent is Fohat or Cosmic Energy. The caduceus of Mercury is related also to racial evolution. (See The Aquarian Mandala. )

The lamps of the Menorah (seven-branched candlestick) relate to the spine and the seven psychic centres or chakras.

The Meaning of Yoga
(See also Appendix V - Meaning of Yoga; Meditation Centres)

Yoga, from the Sanskrit root yug to unite, means the process whereby the consciousness of the Lower Self effects a union with the Christ-consciousness (intuition) of the Higher Self.

The Bible states this process explicitly.

"Be still and know that I am God." (Ps. 46.10)

The Steps of Yoga

First, it is necessary to still the physical body and place it in a comfortable position. This could be a yoga asana (posture) or the Egyptian position, seated in a chair with spine erect and hands on the knees.

Second, having adopted the position, relax the muscles and nerves, feel free from all tension and strain and cease the thinking process.

Third, watch the thoughts that come uninvited into the mind, but let them pass through without paying attention to them.

Fourth, concentrate the mind (meditation with seed) on a particular image, symbol or thought.

Fifth, contemplate on the seed chosen for meditation. Allow the mind to focus on one point.

Sixth, by the fixing of the consciousness an inner light will arise. This is the reflection of higher vibrations on the calm lake of the mind. This is the alchemical process of the transmutation of consciousness from one level to another. This is the "inner light" of the Quakers.

Seventh, persevere with meditation.

only recently found this, haven't vetted it, so let me know what you think.

Mo0n5tar
24-04-2008, 05:04 PM
It seems to me that this whole religious culture comes out of Africa/Tama-Re, Khemet, now it would make sense that the Caucasion race would want to cover this up and appropriate the teachings for themself> Nicea, Constantine, Saul, and later King James, William Tynsdale, therefore would it not also make sense that the true knowledge would be secreted away, hidden in these mystery schools?

Why do you think many who enter freemasonry worshipping the Virgin Mary and Jesus end up worshipping Isis and Horus, they find the real roots back to Khemet, where the first Virgin Birth was recorded!

pilgrim
24-04-2008, 05:17 PM
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24727

razed1
27-04-2008, 02:47 PM
yoga-FLAME!!!

synergy777
28-04-2008, 05:57 PM
all weekend i have been thinking about this, heres my thoughts. i think the power of thoughts/vibration/energy, the afterlife, the power of mass belief/creation, the unconditional love of the source etc is distorted by the elite.

why?, they control information (religion/science/history), which then controls our beliefs/thoughts and hence creation of life/manifestation of reality-matrix/maya.

this is why they use symbols to help power and maintain their illusion/matrix. they gather energy for their corrupted system/creation. they harness our mental and spiritual energy via information/beliefs and symbols. its like hypnosis, they control our thoughts/actions via information. this is why they can only rule by deception, as they only have power thorugh data corruption and manipulation. thus by keeping us misinformed they have power, if we become informed, our collective energy is too great for them.

by trapping us in medieval religous doctrines, by hiding science from us, by creating an enthrophic economic system, they have us on all levels, spiritually, mentally and physically.

together we can break free and create a better future, the power is within us, and there are higher forces at work with us, the source/angels.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/1-Apr-2008.html

Why in the Hell Do We Think Hell Exists?

Here is the case against Hell provided by Tentmaker Ministries.

By Greg Szymanski, JD
April 1, 2008

Everyone is going to Hell unless they do this or that and organized religion uses that hammer to keep money flowing and people in line until their very last breath.

The Vatican damns you to Hell if you do not follow the Pope's orders.
Christian religious leaders damn you to Hell if you don't follow Christ.
And, interestingly enough, they all use interpretations of Bible
scripture to back up claims that Hell, after life on earth, really
exists.

With this in mind, most people in the West take it for granted Hell
exists because they are told from a young age that's what the Bible
says.

Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but it is wise to take a look
at the other side of the Bible coin. Yes, there really are Bible readers
who claim the holy word of God actually makes a good case against the idea that Hell exists.

In an article by Mercy Aiken from Tentmaker Ministries, here is what
they found, in part, about the case against the existence of Hell:

The case against Hell: Did you know that there is a solid scriptural
case to be made against the idea of Hell? Many non-Christians have
rejected the concept of Hell, but it may come as a surprise to learn
that there is a growing number of Bible-believing Christians who also
reject the notion-not in spite of Scripture but because of it! This
short study is meant only to raise some questions and provide brief
answers. For further study, please refer to the links at the end of the
article.

An open and unbiased study of the Bible, including many key Greek and
Hebrew words as well as Church history will reveal some surprising
things.

For instance, did you know that....

"Hell" Is Not an Old Testament doctrine:

Popular myth : Hell is an established Biblical doctrine that is in the
Bible from start to finish. This is not true! Two thirds of the Bible
(the Old Testament) does not mention Hell at all. ("Sheol," the Old
Testament word that is sometimes translated as Hell, only means "grave"
by definition, and it is where everyone in the Old Testament went when
they died--good or evil, Jew or Gentile). Thus the Old Testament does
not contain the concept of Hell!

Think about it...

If Hell is real, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the
beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the tree of
Knowledge of Good and Evil was death- -not "eternal life" in fire and
brimstone.

If Hell is real, why wasn't Cain warned about it, or Sodom and Gomorrah
, or any of those who committed the earliest recorded "sins?"

If Hell is real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten
Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws,
ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and
cursings in this lifetime.

If Hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the Bible?
Many nations surrounding Israel in the Old Testament believed in
Hell-like punishment in the afterlife, for they served bloodthirsty and
evil "gods," while Israel simply taught the grave (sheol) and a hope of
a resurrection. If Hell is real, why was the revelation of it first
given to pagan nations, instead of God's covenant people? Did God expect
Israel to learn about the afterlife from the Pagan Gentiles? If so, why
did He repeatedly warn Israel to not learn of their ways?

If Hell is real, why did God tell the Jews that burning their children
alive in the fire to the false god Molech, (in the valley of Gehenna )
was so detestable to Him? God said that such a thing "never even entered
His mind" (Jer. 32:35). How could God say such a thing to Israel , if He
has plans to burn alive a good majority of His own creation in a
spiritual and eternal Gehenna of His own making?

**FACT: The King James Bible erroneously translates the word "Sheol" as
Hell a total of 31 times in the Old Testament, thus setting a foundation
for that doctrine in the New Testament as well as the majority of Bible
translations to follow the KJV. Even so, most new translations have
completely eliminated Hell from the Old Testament, as honest and better
scholarship has demanded. The Jewish version of the Old Testament (the
Tanakh) has no concept of Hell in it. The importance of this fact cannot
be over-emphasized. If a doctrine does not appear as seed form in the
books of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, it cannot fairly be
taught as a major biblical doctrine, if indeed it can be taught as
biblical at all!

Hell Is Not a New Testament Doctrine:

Popular myth: Jesus spoke of Hell more than He did of Heaven. This is
not true! Jesus warned the Jews many times of impending destruction,
both nationally and individually. He used several different terms to
refer to punishment/destruction, some of which were erroneously
translated as the same word, "Hell" by Bible translators. We do not deny
that God will indeed judge the whole world, nor do we wish to make light
of His judgments. We are challenging the belief that His judgment on sin
and unbelief is eternal torment/Hell and never-ending separation from
God. Certainly, Jesus spent a lot of his ministry warning people to
repent or reap the consequences, (particularly "Gehenna.") But could we
be reading more into His warnings than He originally intended?

Think about it.......

If Hell is real, why were most of the warnings pertaining to
punishment/Gehenna directed to Israel , particularly the Lord's own
disciples as well as the Pharisees? The first great cluster of
references to Gehenna, are found in the Sermon on the Mount (Mat 5:22,
29, 30), Jesus' great sermon to His disciples in which He warned that
one was in danger of Gehenna for the likes of calling someone a fool.
This is a far cry from our modern Evangelical interpretation that says
not accepting Jesus as your Savior is what sends someone to Hell.

Are we perhaps missing the symbolism that Jesus originally intended?

If Hell is real, aren't we taking verses out of context when we warn
non-Jewish sinners who are not part of the Mosaic covenant God made with
the nation of Israel about consequences for sin which have nothing to do
with them since they are not under that covenant?

Since the concept of Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could
Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a
place that is not even found in their Scriptures? And if He was
introducing the subject for the first time, why did He do it so
casually, as though His listeners already understood what He was talking
about?

If Hell is real, since some English translations use the word Hell for
the Greek word "Gehenna," in the New Testament, why didn't this same
place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears
in the Hebrew form "ga ben Hinnom" in the Old Testament?

If the Jews did not understand "Gehenna" as a symbol of everlasting
torture, but rather as a place of shame, filth, and defilement (where
Israel participated in the grossest form of idol worship), why does
modern theology ascribe more to the word than the original meaning did?
The teaching of Gehenna has evolved in Jewish teachings to include
punishment in the afterlife; but even today, Gehenna still does not mean
"endless" punishment to the Jews.

If Hell is real how could the Apostle Paul (who was especially
commissioned by God to preach the gospel to the nations) say that he had
declared the entire counsel of God (Acts 20:27), when indeed he never
warned of "Hell" in any of his letters? If Hell is real, wouldn't Paul,
of all people, warn of it repeatedly?

If Hell is real, the sin/death of Adam has had a far more powerful
effect on the world than the resurrection life of Christ! And yet Paul
declares in Romans 5 that Christ's victory is far greater than Adam's
transgression! Listen to Paul's confidence in the work of Christ! If
Paul believed in eternal hell for the majority of men, how could he
write the following verses?

".Just as the result of one trespass (Adam's) was condemnation for all
men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ's) was
justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the
disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through
the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans
5:18,19).

"Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the
dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."
(1 Cor. 15:22)

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in
the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who
believe" (1 Timothy 4;10).

(The above verses are just a few of the many verses where Paul writes of
a pre-eminent Christ that far transcends the traditional Christian view.
This article is full of many more New Testament references by Paul that
display his views of the Christ triumphant, unlimited, all-powerful,
all-conquering, and victorious).

If Hell is real, why is it that the only time Paul even mentioned "Hell"
in any of his epistles, was declare the triumph of Christ over it? (1
Corinthians 15:55). The word "Grave" in the passage is the Greek word
"Hades."

If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned once in the book of Acts in any
the evangelistic sermons that were recorded by the early Apostles?

If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible
teachers say it is not in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay,
John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent,
etc.)

If Hell is real, why does the word itself come from the Teutonic "Hele"
(goddess of the underworld "Hell" of northern Europe ). The description
of this ancient mythological place has very little resemblance anymore
to the modern Christian image of Hell. See any encyclopedia or
dictionary for the origin of the word.

FACT: The apocryphal books of the intertestimental period had a
tremendous impact on the Jews in the time of Christ. It is from these
books, especially the book of Enoch, that many of the Jewish myths and
fables concerning Hell, heaven, demons and angels and many other fables
first became a part of Judaism and from there became a part of
Christianity. The myths and fables of these books came from Pagan
influences (namely Zoroastrianism), during and after the Babylonian
captivity of Israel . In fact, Zoroastrianism looks more like modern
Christianity in many ways than ancient Judiasm does!

If Hell is real, why did Paul warn Timothy repeatedly to stay away from
Jewish myths and fables, the likes of which were influencing many in the
early church? Rather than affirming such doctrines, Paul declares them
to be profane fables. (1 Tim. 1:1; Tit. 1:14)

Hell Contradicts The Work of the Messiah:

Popular myth: Jesus came to save the sinner from his destination of
everlasting Hell. Not exactly true! Hell was never a place that the Jews
were hoping to be saved from, since they didn't even believe in it! But
they did need to be saved from their sins and consequences of them;
namely death. Jesus came as the Anointed One to fulfill all of God's
plan for the earth-that through Him might come the salvation,
deliverance of sin, peace, kingdom of God and all that God had promised
through the Old Testament scriptures. There is much we can say here, but
for the sake of brevity we will limit our points to a few key passages.
Please take the time to look up the verses that are referenced.

For the entire article, go to
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm

also seanx posted this, this website deserves a read.

http://www.anitamoorjani.com/

synergy777
06-05-2008, 11:12 PM
krishna-jerusalem-hill of tara

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7428

also

http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/apion/view.cgi?book=1&chapter=1

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS CONTRA APION
chapter 1,verse 22:16

Then said Hyperochides, Go on, if it so pleases thee. This man then, [answered Aristotle,] was by birth a Jew, and came from Celesyria; these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=96714&postcount=34

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

BY DR. SAMAR ABBAS, ALIGARH, INDIA

EDITORIAL, Jul 14 (VNN) — A Review


tell me what you think of the hill of tara thread, my mish mash of cut and pastes, lol

thus could my wacky hypothesis be true?

synergy777
10-05-2008, 01:52 PM
http://www.dechen.org/

All beings have buddha nature.

Mind itself is the source of true joy, wisdom and compassion.

It is this discovery that constitutes enlightenment.

synergy777
13-05-2008, 03:41 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/searching.html#rms

Hesus Krishna

" …Up until the Council of Nicea, Roman aristocracy primarily worshipped two Greek Gods, Apollo and Zeus, but the great bulk of common people idolized either Julius Ceasar or Mithra. Caesar was deified by the Roman Senate after his death (d. 15th March, 44 BC) and subsequently venerated as the Divine Julius. The word 'saviour' was affixed to his name, its literal meaning being 'one who sows the seed', i.e. a phallic god. Caesar was hailed as 'God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life' and his successor, Augustus was called the 'ancestral God and Saviour of the whole human race' (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 1952). Emperor Nero (37-68), whose original name was L. Domitius Ahenobarbus, was immortalized on his coins as the 'Saviour of mankind' (ibid). Because the Divine Julius

Was Roman Saviour and 'Father of the Empire', he was considered 'god' among the Roman rabble for more than 300 years. He was the deity in some Western presbyter's texts, but was not recognized in Eastern or Oriental writings.

Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to 'create an entirely new god for his Empire' (Confessions of a Vatican Archivist) that would unite all religious factions under one deity, and presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion of particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special divinity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussions; 'As yet, the new God had not been selected by the council, and so they balloted, in order to determine the matter; for one year and five months the balloting lasted' (God's Book of Eskra, xlviii, 26-53 Prof. S.I. MacQuire trans, Salisbury, 1921).

At the end of that time, Constantine returned to the gathering to discover that the presbyters had not agreed on a new deity but had balloted down to a short list of five prospects, namely, Caesar, Krishna, Mithra, Horus, and Zeus. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon a new god for them. To involve British factions, he ruled that the name of the mighty Druid god,

Hesus (crucified in Britain and later restored to life), be joined with the Eastern savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus a caricature, or the personification of an ideal, Hesus Krishna, would be the name of the new Roman god.

A vote was taken and it was with a majority show of hands that both divinities became one God… 161 votes to 157. Following longstanding heathen custom, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman Apotheoses Decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new god was proclaimed and 'officially ratified by Constantine' (Acta Concilii Niceni, Colon, 1618).

That purely political act of deification effectively, and legally, placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman gods as one individual composition. That abstraction lent earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion, and when the letter 'J' was introduced into alphabets around the Ninth Century, the linguistic relic of the name became Jesus Christ. …"

Tony Bushby - The Papal Billions (pp 23-25) Joshua Books - ISBN 978 0 9804101 1 2

synergy777
13-05-2008, 03:58 PM
hinduism is regarded as the oldest religion in the world, the vedic culture is the worlds oldest global culture. many languages today come from devenaghi/sanskrit eg latin comes from sanskrit, gaelic/ogham comes from sanskrit. all languages hebrew, latin, gaelic are connected to sanskrit.

the jews are descended from vedic people/priesthood/philosophers. the jews spent time in persia/iran and mesopotomia/iraq-babylon. in babylon the chaldean priesthood combined vedic and african religion into one. this became the basis for judaism, torah and talmud. compare the torah and vedas. judaism gave birth to christianity and islam.

thus one could deduce that all religions are connected, the actions of the council of nicea support this interaction of cultures/religions.

synergy777
14-05-2008, 01:52 AM
Gospel of Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Theology of the Gospel of Thomas


The introduction also says, "These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke..." By using the word "secret" the author is telling you that these sayings are not for everyone's ears. These are the secret teachings that are only for a special chosen few — the solitary elect or monachos in Greek (which is where we get the word "Monk" from). Furthermore, they are the "secret" teachings of the "living Jesus." The term living Jesus is to distinguish the dualism of the mortal man — Jesus of Nazareth — and the immortal divine being living inside him. The living Jesus would be a pre-existent godly being conceptually similar to the Logos in the Gospel of John.

The theological framework for the Gospel of Thomas is determined by its cosmological outlook. The cosmology of the Gospel of Thomas is extremely dualistic. For Thomas there are only two realms of existence: the material realm and the spiritual realm. The spiritual realm is a blissful reality of goodness, life, and light; it is the Kingdom of the Father. The material realm is a reality of evil, death, and darkness. From Thomas' point of view, the material world is the world of death ruled over by the Lion (possibly a reference to the lion-headed Yaldabaoth in classically Gnostic literature) and his minions or rulers.

While most people in this material world, according to this ancient belief, are lifeless, soulless beings (little more than animated corpses) created to serve the Lion and his rulers; a few people are actually spiritual beings in disguise. These chosen few — though clothed in a mortal body — are actually immortal pre-existent beings of light and Children of the Living Father who have become intoxicated and fallen asleep under the weight of the material world and its vices. These solitary elect, upon hearing the words of the Living Jesus, will then shake off their slumber and — upon the death of the material body — will return to the Kingdom of the Father.

In this way, the theology of Thomas is not that different from the theological concepts within the canonical Gospel of John. In fact, in most ways the Gospel of John and the Gospel of Thomas are very similar. However, this is where the Gospel of John and the Gospel of Thomas part.

While the Gospel of John clearly has a strong accent on a future eschaton in which the risen Jesus overthrows the ruler of this world, Thomas believes that the eschaton is already happening. Also, while John clearly preaches the belief in a bodily resurrection, Thomas claims that the body will never inherit life. Rather, for Thomas, the resurrection is a spiritual one.

Perhaps the best summary of the theology of the Gospel of Thomas is found in the Hymn of the Pearl or the Hymn of the Apostle Thomas — which is found within the Acts of Thomas.

In the Hymn of the Pearl a young prince is sent by his father in the east (East, in antiquity, was seen as symbolic of light and life) to Egypt in the west (West was seen as symbolic of death) in which lies a great pearl guarded by the dragon. The prince puts on the clothes of the Egyptians, so as not to be recognized as a foreigner. However, the dragon learns of the prince and gets the prince to eat the heavy food of the Egyptians. After eating the Egyptian food the prince falls asleep and forgets who he is. He believes himself to be an Egyptian, when in fact he is really a prince from the East.

When the prince's father, the king, hears of his son's capture, he sends a personified message to his son reminding him who he is and where he is from. Upon hearing the message, the prince shakes off his drunkenness, defeats the dragon, takes the pearl, removes the Egyptian clothes and returns to his home in the East.


References

Riley, Gregory J (1995). Resurrection Reconsidered. Augsburg Fortress Publishers. ISBN 0800628462.

Riley, Gregory J (1997). One Jesus, Many Christs : How Jesus Inspired Not One True Christianity, but Many. Harper San Francisco. ISBN 006066790.

Riley, Gregory J (2003). River of God: A New History of Christian Origins. Harper San Francisco. ISBN 0060669802.

Layton, Bentley (1987). The Gnostic Scriptures. Doubleday. ISBN 0385478437.

Meyer, Marvin (2004). The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus. HarperCollins. ISBN 9780060655815.


The Philosophy of the Gospel of Thomas

In the Thomas gospel, Jesus is a spiritual teacher, and he is offering everyone the opportunity to live (Saying 4) a life that goes beyond death (Saying 1), to become the ruler of their own lives (Saying 2) and thus to know themselves (Saying 3) and their legacy of being the children of "the living Father" (Saying 3). These goals are presented in the image of "entering the Kingdom" by the methodology of insight that goes beyond duality. (Saying 22).

The Gospel of Thomas shows no concern for doctrines such as "God", "original sin", "Christ", "divinity," etc.

The Gospel of Thomas is mystical and emphasizes a direct and unmediated experience of the truth of life. In Thomas v.108, Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become as I am; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him." Furthermore, salvation is personal and found through spiritual (psychological) introspection.

In Thomas v.70, Jesus says, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not bring it forth, what you do not have within you will kill you." As such, this form of salvation is idiosyncratic and without literal explanation unless read from a psychological perspective related to Self vs. ego. In Thomas v.3, Jesus says,[24]

...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.

In the other four gospels, Jesus is frequently called upon to explain the meanings of parables or the correct procedure for prayer. In Thomas v.6, his disciples asked him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?" For reasons unknown, Jesus' answer is found in v. 14 and he emphasizes that what is encountered in the world will not defile a person but what comes out from the mouth will.[25]

This is just one example in Thomas in which the hearer's attention is directed away from objectified judgements of the world to knowing oneself in direct and straighforward manner, which is sometimes called being "as a child" or "a little one" through the unification of our dualistic thinking and modes of objectification. (For example, Sayings 22[26] and 37[27]) To protray the breaking down of the dualistic perspective Jesus uses the image of fire which consumes all. (See, Sayings 10[28] and 82[29]).

The teaching of salvation (i.e., entering the Kingdom of Heaven) that is found in The Gospel of Thomas is neither that of "works" nor of "grace" as the dicotomy is found in the canonical gospels, but what might be called a third way, that of insight. The overriding concern of The Gospel of Thomas is to find the light within in order to be a light unto the world. (See for example, Sayings 24[30], 26[31])

In contrast to the Gospel of John, where Jesus is likened to a (divine and beloved) Lord as in ruler, the Thomas gospel portrays Jesus as more the ubiquitous vehicle of mystical inspiration and enlightenment. In Thomas v. 77 where Jesus said,

I am the light that shines over all things. I am everywhere. From me all came forth, and to me all return.
Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there,

In many other respects, the Thomas gospel offers terse yet familiar if not identical accounts of the sayings of Jesus as seen in the synoptic gospels.[32]

Elaine Pagels, in her book Beyond Belief, argues that the Thomas gospel at first fell victim to the needs of the early Christian community for solidarity in the face of persecution, then to the will of the Emperor Constantine, who at the First Council of Nicaea in 325, wanted an end to the sectarian squabbling and a universal Christian creed. She goes on to point out that in spite of it being left out of the Catholic canon, being banned and sentenced to burn, many of the mystical elements have proven to reappear perennially in the works of mystics like Jacob Boehme, Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the Cross (as long as they did not deny the uniqueness and divinity of Jesus). She concludes that the Thomas gospel gives us a rare glimpse into the diversity of beliefs in the early Christian community, an alternative perspective to the Johannine gospel and a check on what many modern Christians take for granted as being heretical.

However the church at large considers the Thomas gospel not as a reflection of "Christian diversity" but as an example of one of the early heresies that attacked the church. Writings like the Thomas gospel motivated the Roman Catholic church to define its long-held canon and belief in the death and resurrection of Christ in the four gospels which formed the heart of the message proclaimed by the early church in the book of Acts.

synergy777
14-05-2008, 05:03 PM
i tend to think the essene/nazarene nature of yeshua is the real one and that flavius/paul-saul and ralph ellis have some truths but cannot deny the teachings of the essenes are the same as vedic/buddhist doctrines.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Other theological considerations count against the idea. Josephus tells us in his Jewish War and in his Antiquities of the Jews that the Sadducees and the Essenes held opposing views of predestination, with the Essenes believing in an immortal soul and attributing everything to divinely-determined fate, while the Sadducees denied both the existence of the soul and the role of fate altogether.

The scroll authors' beliefs in the soul's survival beyond death and in the resurrection of the body, and their complex world of angels and demons engaged in a cosmic war,

were contrary to the Sadducean belief that there is no resurrection, and that there are no such beings as angels or spirits. For the Sadducees, every person had the right to choose between good and evil, and the scope of humankind's existence was limited to this life. For the Essenes, God ruled and foreordained all events–including every person's ultimate choice to follow after good or after evil–and the significance of each human life would culminate in the soon-to-come Hereafter. It is difficult to imagine how such disparate beliefs might evolve into one another or even be reconciled. This tends to undermine the idea of a strong connection between the Essenes and Sadducees

add in the book of enoch, genesis and daniel, it shows us the watchers/fallen the leader being

Book of Enoch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Book of Parables appears to be based on the Book of Watchers, but presenting a later development of the idea of final judgement and eschatology, concerned not only with the destiny of the fallen angels but also of the evil kings of the Earth. The Book of Parables contains several references to a Messiah Son of Man, as well as messianic themes. As no fragments of this work were found at Qumran, Józef Milik took the view that this section dates from later Christian times.[6] However, since the term "Son of Man" is a Semitic phrase, and since the Book of Daniel also refers to a Son of Man in a context of judgment, most specialists now maintain that the work is a Second Temple Jewish document, likely composed as early as the late 1st century BC or the very beginning of the 1st century AD.

The Book of Enoch describes the fall of the Watchers, the angels who fathered the Nephilim (cf. the bene Elohim, Genesis 6:1-2). The fallen angels went to Enoch to intercede on their behalf with God after he declared to them their doom. The remainder of the book describes Enoch's visit to Heaven in the form of a vision, and his revelations.

The book contains descriptions of the movement of heavenly bodies (in connection with Enoch's trip to Heaven), and some parts of the book have been speculated about as containing instructions for the construction of a solar declinometer (the Uriel's machine theory).

The first section of the book depicts the interaction of the fallen angels with mankind; Sêmîazâz compels the other 199 fallen angels to take human wives to "beget us children".

"And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it."

The names of the leaders are given as "Samyaza (Shemyazaz), their leader, Araqiel, Râmêêl, Kokabiel, Tamiel, Ramiel, Daniel, Chazaqiel, Baraqiel, Asael, Armaros, Batariel, Ananiel, Zaqiel, Shamsiel, Satariel, Turiel, Yomiel, Sariel."

This results in the creation of the Nephilim (Genesis) or Anakim/Anak (Giants) as they are described in the book:

"And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells [the Ethiopian text gives 300 cubits (135 meters), which is probably a corruption of 30 cubits (13.5 meters)]: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood."

It also discusses the teaching of humans by the fallen angels chiefly Azâzêl:

"And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon."

Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel appeal to God to judge the inhabitants of the world and the fallen angels. Uriel is then sent by God to tell Noah of the coming apocalypse and what he needs to do.

"Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spoke, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world."

God commands Raphael to imprison Azâzêl:

"the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl (Gods Kettle/Crucible/Cauldron), and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin."

God gave Gabriel instructions concerning the Nephilim and the imprisonment of the fallen angels:

"And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the biters and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle"

Some suggest that 'biters' should read ' s' but the name is so unusual that some believe that the implication that's made by the reading of 'biters' is more or less correct. The biters may also be the Anunnaki.

The Lord commands Michael to bind the fallen angels. "And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: (and) to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations."

synergy777
28-05-2008, 06:59 PM
http://tarawatch.org/
tarawatch recognises the vedic/indian connections to the hill of tara!

Vedic Origins of the Europeans: The Danavas, Children of Danu
http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/

http://www.***********************/forum1/message326858/pg1

In these altered states beyond the five senses we can regain our conscious connection to the Infinite and experience any expression of the Infinite anything in, all existence.

Look at the ocean. We give it different names like the Pacific or the Indian, as we give ourselves names like Bill Jones or David Icke. But these 'different' oceans are the same water, as we are the same consciousness. So where is the ocean? Is it crashing on the coast of India? Is it lapping on a beach in Jamaica? Is it the Roaring Forties or the South China Sea?

It is all of them and so it can experience all of them.

We are the infinite consciousness that is everything.

Where are we? Are we the tree in the garden? Are we the forest down the road? Are we the Sun or the sky? Are we the reflection we see in the mirror or the raindrops on our face? We are all of them because we are an expression of the seamless One and we can experience any aspect of the seamless One that we are.

We have been manipulated to believe we are isolated 'individual' droplets when we are the ocean. We are not even part of the ocean, we are the ocean. When you place a droplet back in the water, where does the droplet end and the ocean start? There is no division, the droplet becomes the ocean.

This knowledge has been communicated by the enlightened throughout human existence, but official science has denied its validity.

The ancient Greek philosopher, Plato, said that human beings were like people sitting in a cave always facing a wall. The universe was the shadows projected onto the wall, illusions that the people mistake for reality.

The only reality or truth was the light consciousness that made the shadows possible.

The ancient Vedic works of India make the same point. The eighth century Hindu mystic, Shankara, said: "This entire universe of which we speak and think is nothing but Brahman [infinite consciousness]. Brahman dwells beyond the range of Maya [illusion]. There is nothing else."

Seven months after this experience in Brazil, I came across an ancient Hindu myth.

It said human consciousness had begun as a ripple that decided to leave the ocean of consciousness the "timeless, space less and eternal".When it awakened to itself in this 'disconnected' state, the myth said, it forgot that it was part of the infinite ocean and felt isolated and separated.

science is now proving this

Holographic Reality & Spiritual Science

http://www.redicecreations.com/connections/more/holographicrealityspritsci.html

----------------------------------------------------------

icke was right about this !!!!!!!!!

i believe that we are all a part of the source/brahma, an eternal connected multi dimensional energy/entity beyond our comprehension. a energy/source so intelligent, loving, powerful, compassionate that its beyond our 5 sense/5 dimensional comprehension. we can understand/live a part of it, in this 5 dimensional creation/cosmos, but its truly remarkable/awesome, that we would probably fry our bains if we experienced all of it. this is shared by some of the most intelligent scientists/teachers ever.

the parts of this energy/creation are our spirits, thus we are all children/creations of the source, connected, the infinite oneness/infinite love of icke etc. also if you read icke etc and read the religous texts from hinduism/buddhism/sikhism to the three a-braham-ic faiths you realise this is the core message/universal truth. i know all religions have been created/edited/corrupted by elite and have served a purpose for imperial means. from egyptain/babylonian/vedic priesthoods to council of nicea, hadiths/sunnahs/wahabbis, then zionists, christian identity/british israel etc. etc.

so either icke/religions are wrong, and we don't know nothing accurate or its could be the truth. also the negative entities that control our 5 dimensions could control the whole eleven and thus trick us into thinking we have entered heaven/paradise etc, thus we are not just searching for truth here, but after, well potentially all dimensions. it could be a multidimensional multiverse/matrix created by negative entities or they could have rebelled and took control, eg the biblical fall, from watchers/guardians to controllers/wannabe gods.

thus no matter what view you take, either gnostic, atheist, religous, you come to the same set of truths/conclusions.

now i know why jews get a bad press its due to deutronomy/talmud/zionism. christians get a bad name due to empire/vatican/nicea etc. muslims get a bad name for empire/extremists, hindus get a bad name for caste system etc. but is every jew a zionist, is every christian a crusader, is every muslim a extremist. no, i have from first hand experience met religous people from all faiths who are genuine compassionate people, i met atheist/scientists/agnostics/new ages types aswell. i found all these people to be good, searching for the same thing, truth/inner peace. so i will not follow the divide and rule hype of the elite. for too long we have let ignorance/fear/hate turn ourselves against eachother and the source/spirit, cue bono?

bicycle
30-05-2008, 12:34 AM
THE Pope is being urged to confer sainthood on the Scottish biscuit maker who first had the idea of putting chocolate on a HobNob.


Devout Catholic Margaret Sinclair implored her employers at McVities to coat the underside of their crunchy, oaty biscuits with a layer of milk chocolate after a experiencing a vision of the Virgin Mary.

The Holy Mother appeared to Sinclair in Easter 1920 when she was having a cup of tea at home in Edinburgh with an original HobNob and a small, hollow chocolate egg.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, said: "At first she was sore afraid, but Mary said 'hush child', took the egg from her and gently smoothed it into the base of her biscuit, before using a small cake fork to create that distinctive ripple effect."

Sinclair would be the first biscuit maker to be canonised since 1905, when the French peasant girl Bernadette Soubirous was made a saint for inventing the Breakaway in 1858.

However, the move is likely to be attacked by the followers of Henry Brubaker, inventor of the Penguin, whose canonisation remains on hold 50 years after his death.

Catholic academic Dr Bill McKay said: "It could be argued that the chocolate HobNob, while certainly very appetising, is really little more than a chocolate digestive made from oats.

"The Penguin, however, has a chocolate cream filling, sandwiched between two chocolate flavoured biscuits, which are then enveloped by a delicious milk chocolate vestment.

"Did Jesus not say, 'if you are to be of chocolate, then be entirely of chocolate'? I think you'll find he did."

synergy777
31-05-2008, 02:17 PM
you forgot the best biscuit, the jammie dodger, and is a jaffa cake, a biscuit or cake?

synergy777
01-06-2008, 08:40 PM
maybe i am a spiritual slave,

i think like everyone else i am programmed by religous texts, scientific texts, historic texts, media etc.

maybe i will never know god/source, the truth about us, the human race etc.

i have tried to find the truth and i cannot.

all i know is that some supreme entity/creator/source exists and it might have created the cosmos and us, our spirits etc.

i think that the source would want us to be good/compassionate to eachother and nature.

i think that the source would want us to live in equality, unity, liberty and harmony.

maybe i don't know the truth or never will, but these are my views.

how can you free me, how can you show me how to get to the truth,

how can you teach me to use my power and change my life and thus serve/help others ?

http://www.thematrix101.com/matrix/symbolism.php

Matrix [UPDATED] in the dictionary refers to "a situation or surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained. The womb."

Additionally, the concept of the Matrix as an illusion or a 'construct' that humans are unaware of resembles the idea of Samsara in Buddhism and Hinduism.

Samsara teaches that the world we consider 'real' is actually a projection of our own desires. From Morpheus Neo learns that how he'd perceived himself in the Matrix was simply a "the mental projection of your digital self." The "real" sensory world "is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/samsara.html

Samsara literally means "wandering-on." Many people think of it as the Buddhist name for the place where we currently live — the place we leave when we go to nibbana. But in the early Buddhist texts, it's the answer, not to the question, "Where are we?" but to the question, "What are we doing?" Instead of a place, it's a process:

Saṃsāra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Samsara is derived from "to flow together," to go or pass through states, to wander. Mostly a great revolving door between life and death and a new life reincarnated cycle of life. Also known as a game in ancient India

In Hinduism, it is avidya, or ignorance, of one's true self, that leads to ego-consciousness of the body and the phenomenal world. This grounds one in kāma (desire) and the perpetual chain of karma and reincarnation.

The state of illusion is known as Maya.

Hinduism has many terms for the ultimate place like moksha, mukti, nirvana, and mahasamadhi.

The Hindu Yoga traditions hold various beliefs. Moksha may be achieved by love of Ishwar/God (see bhakti movement), by psycho-physical meditation (Raja Yoga), by discrimination of what is real and unreal through intense contemplation (Jnana Yoga) and through Karma Yoga, the path of selfless action that subverts the ego and enforces understanding of the unity of all. Advaita Vedanta, which heavily influenced Hindu Yoga, believes that Brahman, the ultimate Truth-Consciousness-Bliss, is the infinite, impersonal reality (as contrasted to the Buddhist concept of shunyata) and that through realization of it, all temporal states like deities, the cosmos and samsara itself are revealed to be nothing but manifestations of Brahman

In Sikhism, it is thought that due to the commendable past actions and deeds (known as karma or kirat) that people obtain the chance of human birth, which is regarded in Sikhism as the highest possible on Earth and therefore an opportunity that should not be wasted.

And only by continued good actions and the "Grace of the Almighty" can one obtain liberation from the continuous cycle of births and deaths of various bodily forms that the soul has been undergoing since the creation of the universe.

The end of the cycle of transmigration of the soul is known as mukti. For Sikhs, the state of mukti can be achieved whilst still alive, known as "Jivan Mukat", literally "liberated whilst alive".

Maya (illusion) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maya (Sanskrit माया māyāa[›]), in Indian religions, has multiple meanings. Maya, is the principal deity who creates, perpetuates and governs the phantasmagoria, illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe.

For some mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that Maya represents a fundamental reality or Truth.

Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean.

The goal of enlightenment is to understand this — more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the Universe is a false dichotomy. The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body (refer bodymind), is the result of an unenlightened perspective.


Moksha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moksha is seen as a final release from one's worldly conception of self, the loosening of the shackle of experiential duality and a realization of one's own fundamental nature which is true being, pure consciousness and bliss (satcitananda) an experience which is ineffable and beyond sensation.

According to the branch of Hinduism known as advaita vedanta, at liberation the individual soul or atman is realised to be one with the Ground of all being – the Source of all phenomenal existence known as Brahman. The self-as-individual is realised to have never existed.

synergy777
03-06-2008, 05:04 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

Yeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ in Hebrew, was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period, and is believed by some scholars[1] and religious groups[2] to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus. It is extensively used by Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians, as well as others, who wish to use what some believe to be the original Hebraic pronunciation of Jesus' name. This pronunciation and spelling, as with many religious and scholarly issues, remains the subject of ongoing debate.

Aramaic language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aramaic is a group of Semitic languages with a 3,000-year history. It has been the language of administration of empires and the language of divine worship. It is the original language of large sections of the biblical books of Daniel and Ezra, and is the main language of the Babylonian Talmud. Aramaic was the native language of Jesus (see Aramaic of Jesus).[4] Modern Aramaic is spoken today as a first language by numerous, scattered communities, most significantly by the Assyrians. The language is considered to be endangered.[citation needed]

Aramaic belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language family. Within that diverse family, it belongs to the Semitic subfamily. Aramaic is a part of the Northwest Semitic group of languages, which also includes the Canaanite languages (such as Hebrew). It is also related to Arabic, being part of the more diverse Central Semitic languages; one possible source for the Arabic alphabet is Nabataean Aramaic script.

Nabataeans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Nabataeans (Arabic: الأنباط, Al-Anbāṭ) were an ancient Arab, Semitic, trading people of southern Jordan, Canaan and the northern part of Arabia- whose oasis settlements in the time of Josephus gave the name of Nabatene to the borderland between Syria and Arabia, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. Their loosely-controlled trading network, which centered on strings of oases that they controlled, where agriculture was intensively practiced in limited areas, and on the routes that linked them, had no securely defined boundaries in the surrounding desert. Trajan definitively conquered the Nabataeans and incorporated them into the Roman Empire, where their individual culture, easily identified by their characteristic finely-potted painted ceramics, became dispersed and was eventually lost.


Petra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Petra (from πέτρα "petra", rock in Greek; Arabic: البتراء, Al-Butrā) is an archaeological site in Arabah, Aqaba Governorate, Jordan, lying on the slope of Mount Hor[1] in a basin among the mountains which form the eastern flank of Arabah (Wadi Araba), the large valley running from the Dead Sea to the Gulf of Aqaba. It is renowned for its rock-cut architecture. Petra is also one of the new wonders of the world.

The site remained unknown to the Western world until 1812, when it was discovered by Swiss explorer Johann Ludwig Burckhardt. It was famously described as "a rose-red city half as old as time" in a Newdigate prize-winning sonnet by John William Burgon. UNESCO has described it as "one of the most precious cultural properties of man's cultural heritage."[2] In 1985, Petra was designated a World Heritage Site.

** remember petra in the indiana jones movie, the last crusade/holy grail !!!

synergy777
03-06-2008, 05:16 PM
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4296/632pxyeshuastamgg3.jpg

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9544/onesourcedb6uk8.jpg

synergy777
04-06-2008, 02:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/1-Apr-2008.html

Why in the Hell Do We Think Hell Exists?

Here is the case against Hell provided by Tentmaker Ministries.

By Greg Szymanski, JD
April 1, 2008

Everyone is going to Hell unless they do this or that and organized
religion uses that hammer to keep money flowing and people in line until their very last breadth.

The Vatican damns you to Hell if you do not follow the Pope's orders.
Christian religious leaders damn you to Hell if you don't follow Christ.
And, interestingly enough, they all use interpretations of Bible
scripture to back up claims that Hell, after life on earth, really
exists.

With this in mind, most people in the West take it for granted Hell
exists because they are told from a young age that's what the Bible
says.

Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but it is wise to take a look
at the other side of the Bible coin. Yes, there really are Bible readers
who claim the holy word of God actually makes a good case against the idea that Hell exists.

In an article by Mercy Aiken from Tentmaker Ministries, here is what
they found, in part, about the case against the existence of Hell:

The case against Hell: Did you know that there is a solid scriptural
case to be made against the idea of Hell? Many non-Christians have
rejected the concept of Hell, but it may come as a surprise to learn
that there is a growing number of Bible-believing Christians who also
reject the notion-not in spite of Scripture but because of it! This
short study is meant only to raise some questions and provide brief
answers. For further study, please refer to the links at the end of the
article.

An open and unbiased study of the Bible, including many key Greek and
Hebrew words as well as Church history will reveal some surprising
things.

For instance, did you know that....

"Hell" Is Not an Old Testament doctrine:

Popular myth : Hell is an established Biblical doctrine that is in the
Bible from start to finish. This is not true! Two thirds of the Bible
(the Old Testament) does not mention Hell at all. ("Sheol," the Old
Testament word that is sometimes translated as Hell, only means "grave"
by definition, and it is where everyone in the Old Testament went when
they died--good or evil, Jew or Gentile). Thus the Old Testament does
not contain the concept of Hell!

Think about it...

If Hell is real, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the
beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the tree of
Knowledge of Good and Evil was death- -not "eternal life" in fire and
brimstone.

If Hell is real, why wasn't Cain warned about it, or Sodom and Gomorrah
, or any of those who committed the earliest recorded "sins?"

If Hell is real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten
Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws,
ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and
cursings in this lifetime.

If Hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the Bible?
Many nations surrounding Israel in the Old Testament believed in
Hell-like punishment in the afterlife, for they served bloodthirsty and
evil "gods," while Israel simply taught the grave (sheol) and a hope of
a resurrection. If Hell is real, why was the revelation of it first
given to pagan nations, instead of God's covenant people? Did God expect
Israel to learn about the afterlife from the Pagan Gentiles? If so, why
did He repeatedly warn Israel to not learn of their ways?

If Hell is real, why did God tell the Jews that burning their children
alive in the fire to the false god Molech, (in the valley of Gehenna )
was so detestable to Him? God said that such a thing "never even entered
His mind" (Jer. 32:35). How could God say such a thing to Israel , if He
has plans to burn alive a good majority of His own creation in a
spiritual and eternal Gehenna of His own making?

**FACT: The King James Bible erroneously translates the word "Sheol" as
Hell a total of 31 times in the Old Testament, thus setting a foundation
for that doctrine in the New Testament as well as the majority of Bible
translations to follow the KJV. Even so, most new translations have
completely eliminated Hell from the Old Testament, as honest and better
scholarship has demanded. The Jewish version of the Old Testament (the
Tanakh) has no concept of Hell in it. The importance of this fact cannot
be over-emphasized. If a doctrine does not appear as seed form in the
books of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, it cannot fairly be
taught as a major biblical doctrine, if indeed it can be taught as
biblical at all!

Hell Is Not a New Testament Doctrine:

Popular myth: Jesus spoke of Hell more than He did of Heaven. This is
not true! Jesus warned the Jews many times of impending destruction,
both nationally and individually. He used several different terms to
refer to punishment/destruction, some of which were erroneously
translated as the same word, "Hell" by Bible translators. We do not deny
that God will indeed judge the whole world, nor do we wish to make light
of His judgments. We are challenging the belief that His judgment on sin
and unbelief is eternal torment/Hell and never-ending separation from
God. Certainly, Jesus spent a lot of his ministry warning people to
repent or reap the consequences, (particularly "Gehenna.") But could we
be reading more into His warnings than He originally intended?

Think about it.......

If Hell is real, why were most of the warnings pertaining to
punishment/Gehenna directed to Israel , particularly the Lord's own
disciples as well as the Pharisees? The first great cluster of
references to Gehenna, are found in the Sermon on the Mount (Mat 5:22,
29, 30), Jesus' great sermon to His disciples in which He warned that
one was in danger of Gehenna for the likes of calling someone a fool.
This is a far cry from our modern Evangelical interpretation that says
not accepting Jesus as your Savior is what sends someone to Hell. Are we
perhaps missing the symbolism that Jesus originally intended?

If Hell is real, aren't we taking verses out of context when we warn
non-Jewish sinners who are not part of the Mosaic covenant God made with
the nation of Israel about consequences for sin which have nothing to do
with them since they are not under that covenant?

Since the concept of Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could
Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a
place that is not even found in their Scriptures? And if He was
introducing the subject for the first time, why did He do it so
casually, as though His listeners already understood what He was talking
about?

If Hell is real, since some English translations use the word Hell for
the Greek word "Gehenna," in the New Testament, why didn't this same
place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears
in the Hebrew form "ga ben Hinnom" in the Old Testament?

If the Jews did not understand "Gehenna" as a symbol of everlasting
torture, but rather as a place of shame, filth, and defilement (where
Israel participated in the grossest form of idol worship), why does
modern theology ascribe more to the word than the original meaning did?
The teaching of Gehenna has evolved in Jewish teachings to include
punishment in the afterlife; but even today, Gehenna still does not mean
"endless" punishment to the Jews.

If Hell is real how could the Apostle Paul (who was especially
commissioned by God to preach the gospel to the nations) say that he had
declared the entire counsel of God (Acts 20:27), when indeed he never
warned of "Hell" in any of his letters? If Hell is real, wouldn't Paul,
of all people, warn of it repeatedly?

If Hell is real, the sin/death of Adam has had a far more powerful
effect on the world than the resurrection life of Christ! And yet Paul
declares in Romans 5 that Christ's victory is far greater than Adam's
transgression! Listen to Paul's confidence in the work of Christ! If
Paul believed in eternal hell for the majority of men, how could he
write the following verses?

".Just as the result of one trespass (Adam's) was condemnation for all
men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ's) was
justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the
disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through
the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans
5:18,19).

"Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the
dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."
(1 Cor. 15:22)

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in
the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who
believe" (1 Timothy 4;10).

(The above verses are just a few of the many verses where Paul writes of
a pre-eminent Christ that far transcends the traditional Christian view.
This article is full of many more New Testament references by Paul that
display his views of the Christ triumphant, unlimited, all-powerful,
all-conquering, and victorious).

If Hell is real, why is it that the only time Paul even mentioned "Hell"
in any of his epistles, was declare the triumph of Christ over it? (1
Corinthians 15:55). The word "Grave" in the passage is the Greek word
"Hades."

If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned once in the book of Acts in any
the evangelistic sermons that were recorded by the early Apostles?

If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible
teachers say it is not in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay,
John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent,
etc.)

If Hell is real, why does the word itself come from the Teutonic "Hele"
(goddess of the underworld "Hell" of northern Europe ). The description
of this ancient mythological place has very little resemblance anymore
to the modern Christian image of Hell. See any encyclopedia or
dictionary for the origin of the word.

FACT: The apocryphal books of the intertestimental period had a
tremendous impact on the Jews in the time of Christ. It is from these
books, especially the book of Enoch, that many of the Jewish myths and
fables concerning Hell, heaven, demons and angels and many other fables
first became a part of Judaism and from there became a part of
Christianity. The myths and fables of these books came from Pagan
influences (namely Zoroastrianism), during and after the Babylonian
captivity of Israel . In fact, Zoroastrianism looks more like modern
Christianity in many ways than ancient Judiasm does!

If Hell is real, why did Paul warn Timothy repeatedly to stay away from
Jewish myths and fables, the likes of which were influencing many in the
early church? Rather than affirming such doctrines, Paul declares them
to be profane fables. (1 Tim. 1:1; Tit. 1:14)

Hell Contradicts The Work of the Messiah:

Popular myth: Jesus came to save the sinner from his destination of
everlasting Hell. Not exactly true! Hell was never a place that the Jews
were hoping to be saved from, since they didn't even believe in it! But
they did need to be saved from their sins and consequences of them;
namely death. Jesus came as the Anointed One to fulfill all of God's
plan for the earth-that through Him might come the salvation,
deliverance of sin, peace, kingdom of God and all that God had promised
through the Old Testament scriptures. There is much we can say here, but
for the sake of brevity we will limit our points to a few key passages.
Please take the time to look up the verses that are referenced.

For the entire article, go to
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm


-------------------------------------------------------------------

i think an all loving creator would not punish us, but gives us all chances/lives to learn and improve/evolve. hell is a creation by the elite to scare us into servitude to the church/corrupt doctrines, thus due to fear we do not question the church but follow blindly their corrupted doctrines.

its a fear(hell) and guilt(born in sin) control doctrine.

we are never born with sin, we are blessed with life from the creator, to learn, enjoy and love. the church want us to fear the creator and follow them. the church does not want us to love our source/creator and love eachother, as this would destroy their control/power/wealth.

apply this control to all religions, where the church/elite are. thats why the elite control all religions.

thats why yeshua was hated by the church/clergy, he outwitted them, outsmarted them and made our connection and love real with the source.

to me hell is the absence of love/compassion and connection with source/eachother/cosmos.

like icke said, love does not abandon, the source/creator never abandons us, as we are always connected via our spirit. its us, thorugh our identification with our mental software/mind/rationale/ego that we think we are not connected eg its not logical/scientific, look at my life, its so bad, why does god/source not care/help etc.

thats the trick in my view, they fool us into thinking we are not connected via corrupted doctrines/mind control.

we always connected to the source/creator and eachother/nature/cosmos.

1love/peace

synergy777
07-06-2008, 10:49 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/features/view/47392/Did-Jesus-visit-Britain-

DID JESUS VISIT BRITAIN?

Jesus's story has been brought to the small screen by such actors as Robert Powell

Saturday June 7,2008

By Helen Dowd

An astonishing new book claims that a decade before he was crucified, Jesus sailed here on a trading ship and found inspiration in his Cornish idyll...

ITS ROUSING chorus has echoed around Brit­ish churches for nearly 100 years; William Blake’s Jerusalem is a hymn about the legend that Jesus once came to Britain.

In it Blake asks if Jesus ever walked upon England’s “mountains green”, words inspired by the myth that a man called Jesus wandered through British vill­ages a decade before He was crucified. But now a book suggests those words point to a truth hidden for centuries.

By collating stories from local legends, architectural evi­dence from two ancient churches and analysing letters from our earliest historians, author Glyn Lewis believes the tale of Jesus’s visit to Britain is true.

The key to it all is Jesus’s family. Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus’s uncle, was a metal trader who travelled Europe. He was a trustworthy businessman – in Mark 15:43 he is described as an “honourable counsellor”.

Jesus and his uncle Joseph stopped at Ding Dong mine

“Joseph of Arima­thea almost certainly came here to buy tin in Cornwall and copper and lead in Somerset,” says Lewis, author of Did Jesus Come To Britain? “In the Bible Joseph of Arimathea approached Pon­tius Pilate for Jesus’s body after the crucifixion.

The law then stated that only a close relative could have done this, which shows he and Jesus clearly knew each other well. Pilate also gave Joseph time in a meeting, which showed he wasn’t just ‘anybody’ but a respected member of the community.”

It is interesting that both places in Britain where Joseph traded have legends saying that another man, namely Jesus, was once there. Lewis estimates that when He came to Britain Jesus was aged 12 to 28. He was crucified aged 30.

Miners’ songs in Corn­wall mention Joseph and Jesus and folk songs from Somerset also tell of the days where He walked among the people of Glastonbury.

“Britain is one of the very few countries that has songs and hymns about Jesus being here,” Lewis explains. “There are so many that it just seems strange they would all be fictional.”

Carols like I Saw Three Ships mention Christ sailing into the country. Lewis says they are “un-likely to be fanciful” because they “survived in the canon of carols”.

It is, however, difficult to find concrete evidence. “We have no written history until about the 6th century when famed histor­ian Gildas started writing but I think he refers to Jesus’s time in this country.” St Gildas, who lived from AD516 to AD710 wrote that: “Christ afforded His light to our island during the height of the reign of Tiberius Caesar.”

Here is what is known about Jesus’s possible route here. He either set off from the Palestinian ports of Tyre or Sidon, though Tyre is more likely as it is mentioned in the Bible that Jesus healed a sick girl there. Then the ship would have sailed through the Mediterr­anean and Straits of Gibraltar.

Bearing north through the Straits of Biscay, it sailed into the Channel, where winds took it to the Cornish coast, Joseph’s first stop along his trade route.

There were rich seams of tin to be found in mines near Penzance, one of them being the Ding Dong mine near Penwith, Cornwall’s oldest, where, Lewis says, Jesus and His uncle talked to miners and shared food and drink.

Near Truro stands St Anthony in Roseland church, a pretty, steepled building which looks like many others of its era. It is not until the hieroglyphic carvings around the 1,000 year-old arched south door are examined that its secret is revealed. An analysis of their meaning by an archaeologist in the Seventies revealed striking results. Lewis writes: “He interpreted the pictographs as telling of Jesus’s birth and his visit to Cornwall.”

A more detailed analysis of the pictures tells us even more about Jesus’s life. “The lamb and the cross face the rising
sun, meaning that he was here in his early life. Because it is on the left of the centre line it indicates He was here just before the turn of the year, probably December.”

If the inscription is real, according to Lewis, “this arch is one of the few ancient records that exist to support the legend that Jesus visited Britain”. The inscription also reveals that Jesus and Joseph had, while sailing into the port, encountered difficulties in their boat.

Lewis thinks that if they had been shipwrecked they would have “erected a shrine to give thanks for their deliverance from the sea” and this shrine is where St Anthony’s church is today.

If Jesus and His uncle landed in Cornwall they would have gone on to Somerset. This was a well-established route for metal traders like Joseph and he would have sailed his ship around the Cornish coast and moored near Burnham or Uphill in Somerset. Lewis writes, they “might have called in at the mouth of the Camel estuary in Cornwall” to replenish supplies of food and water. There remains to this day a well on this harbour which legend has it was where Christ and His uncle stopped.

“On the bleak, windswept downs of St Winver, where one would hardly expect to find fresh water, there is a well known as the Jesus well,” Lewis writes. “It’s unusual to find water on the headland and it’s the only well that bears His name in the country.”

The St Joseph’s Chapel in Glastonbury Abbey is where, according to myth, Joseph later brought the Holy Grail, the cup from which Christ drank at the Last Supper. It too has a connection to Christ’s time in Britain.

“Jesus had links to the Druids,” Lewis says. “I believe He stayed a while in Glastonbury to study for his ministry. While Joseph was trading I think Jesus found people in Glastonbury, a seat of Druid learning, who thought much like He did.”

The Druids believed in one God and the Holy Trinity. More importantly, they searched for a saviour, whom they called Yesu.

“I think He stayed there for a while to study. I certainly think He was away from Nazareth for some time because in the gospel when He returns people don’t recognise Him and He’s far wiser upon His return so they also ask Him where he obtained His learning.”

After the crucifixion Joseph came to Britain in fear for his life because he had entombed Jesus’s body. He built a chapel on the site of Jesus’s Glaston­bury home, which is today a church bearing the name of St Joseph. This chapel was seen by St Augustine, who was sent to Britain by Pope Gregory the Great to convert people to Christianity. In 597 he described a church “constructed by no human art but by the hands of Christ himself”.

Lewis says: “The facts do come together and I’ve come to the conclusion that, yes, He did come here. It doesn’t conflict at all with the gospel stories and I think it’s important for Britain to have this myth. To think that Christ came here in His formative years makes Britain a holy land.”

* To order Did Jesus Come To Britain? by Glyn Lewis (Clairview Books, £8.99), free UK delivery, send cheque/PO payable to the Express Bookshop to: Jesus In Britain Offer, PO Box 200, Falmouth TR11 4WJ, or phone 0871 521 1301 (calls cost 10p per minute from BT landlines) with credit/debit card details or visit www.expressbookshop.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------

DID JESUS VIST BRITAIN?
07.06.08, 8:28pm

Dear Sir ,
It is not known were Jesus was between the ages of 12-30. We know that at that age he was in the Temple arguing with the Doctors.It has also been widlely believed that may visted India.It is clear that Joseph of Arimathea must have known him well,and must have had a lot of influence. With the Prefect Pontius Pilate,becouse otherwise he would not have granted him his request. It is also clear that Joseph must have cloes relations with Cyprus.Which was then the major source of copper . Which he would need for making bronze. The copper mines Of Cyprus ,had been granted to King Heriod, and it quite likely that Joseph was the Procurator of these mines. It is well known in the Acts of Apostles, that St Paul visted Cyprus. though it is not stated if he met Joseph there. By this time the Roman Conquest of Britain had taken place.It is believed that Joseph came to Britain at that time. if as it seems likely he had a good knowledge of the mineral resources of southern Britain. He would be in a good position to take full advantage of the Roman Conquest Of Britain. We do know that soon afterwards the Romans were mining lead in Somerset. If Joseph had been there before the Roman Conquest of Britain, it is quite likely that he could have brought some of his relations with him, and his young nephew would have been ideal. Indeed he could been his agent in Britian,which would explain where he was.

Yours Sincerly,
A.G. Burnett.

synergy777
18-06-2008, 01:08 AM
the source/most high/infinite awareness loves us unconditionally

without judging/punishing, and is always with you,

as your spirit/soul/infinite awareness is a part of him/her.

as true love/compassion is unconditional.

know this and it will set you free.

octopusrex
19-06-2008, 07:43 PM
Went to hell the other night, Singergy. I kinda like to go on vacation now and then to visit friends.

It is a place of profound ignorance and absolute false ego. A dark place of spiritual torment for the blind.

Trust me, it's there.

synergy777
21-06-2008, 04:09 PM
some books on our history.

Flying Serpents and Dragons: The Story of Mankind's Reptilian Past


The Origin of Evil Spirits: The Reception of Genesis 6.1-4 in Early Jewish ... By Archie T. Wright

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.apollonius.net/boulay06e.html

FLYING SERPENTS AND DRAGONS


By R. A. Boulay ©1990


Editorial Comments By Roberto Solàrion ©1997

*Chapter 6

THE SERPENT-GODS AND IMMORTALITY


"Make a seraph and mount it on a pole. And if anyone who is bitten, looks at it, he shall recover." Book of Numbers

THE PERCEPTION OF THE SERPENT AS EVIL

Besides Adam and Eve, the other important denizen of the garden of Eden was the serpent. He is given qualities which rival and surpass those of Adam. Even Genesis concedes the point when it asserts that "the serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild beasts that God had made." The Haggadah describes the serpent as tall, two-legged and with superior mental powers. He was lord over all the beasts of Eden: "God spoke to the serpent, 'I created you to be king over all the animals. I created you to be of upright position.'"

In the Haggadah there seems to be little doubt that he walked like a man.

In Genesis, the serpent was severely punished for his role in the downfall of Adam and Eve. His fate was henceforth to crawl on his belly. In this way, Genesis implies that at one time the serpent was a legged creature and lost his limbs as a result of the eating of the forbidden fruit. The Haggadah is more explicit and plainly states that "his hands and feet were hacked off."

In appearance, the legged-serpent must have been a fearsome creature, dominating all the animals as well as Man. In fact, when Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden, they wore "shirts of skin." But since Adam and Eve were vegetarian during this period and Man was not allowed to eat meat until after the Deluge, these "skins" must have been those sloughed off by the reptiles. Many ancient sources verify this.

Ancient Jewish legends indicate that the clothes worn by Adam and Eve were not only made of reptile skins but that they protected them from predators: "When they wore the coats, Adam and Eve were told, all creatures on earth would fear them." The serpent skins were symbolic of the ruling race, and not only reminded Adam and Eve of their origin but also acted as a talisman to protect them from wild creatures.

[Comment: Even today we still wear reptile skins - snakeskins, alligator skins, crocodile skins - many of which are quite expensive and set the wearer apart from the general multitude. And the serpent, primarily the cobra, was highly revered in such ancient cultures as those of Egypt and India.]

The notion of the serpent as evil is a fairly recent one, for it is one that developed during the early Christian era. In actuality, the Biblical serpent is often connected with godly knowledge, healing and immortality. The Hebrew word for the creature who tempted Eve is "nahash" which is usually translated as serpent but literally means "he who solves secrets."

Even in ancient Greek the word serpent posed problems in translation. In the Septuagint, the early Greek version of the Old Testament, the serpent is called "drakon." In ancient Greece the word "drakon" was used for all large fearsome creatures such as serpents, large reptiles, and other terrifying animals. Thus the term "drakon" carried over through semantic channels to the association of a large winged, legged serpent as dragon in Western literature and culture.

[Comment: Today the Greek currency is called a "drakma." It would be interesting to investigate the etymological source for this modern term.]

In all probability, the dragons and other fabulous creatures of mythology are but distorted forms of the serpent-god. It is a semantic problem fostered by man's revulsion in linking his ancestry to a saurian god. Two streams of understanding seem to have contributed to the legend of the serpent as evil and repulsive.

The first is the master-slave relationship. Man replaced the Anunnaki as workers and began to perform all the menial and distasteful tasks. The memory of this domination by cruel and merciless reptiles was further exacerbated by the descent of the Nefilim in the days before the Deluge. These space men intermarried and lived among Mankind, and both Scriptures and Sumerian sources reveal that they were a barbarous and cannibalistic race.

By the time of the advent of the Deluge, Man had come to despise and even to persecute these saurian offspring. Ancient sources strongly suggest that anyone showing signs of serpent-god ancestry was hunted down and destroyed.

The second major factor in the evolution of the idea of them as evil was the enmity between Enlil and Enki. When the lands were reclaimed after the Deluge, Enlil saw to it that his sons were placed in charge of the lands of the Middle East and that Enki's sons were allotted foreign lands such as Egypt and the Indus Valley. The sons of Enki returned to the Middle East, however, and his oldest son Marduk seized control of Babylon and claimed the coveted title of "fifty."

Enki is remembered as the creator and benefactor of Mankind and is associated with godly knowledge, healing, and immortality - exactly the qualities attributed to the serpent in the garden of Eden. Thus, the Biblical "Fall of Man" takes on the character of a confrontation between Enlil, the Elohim of the Old Testament, and Enki, the usurper serpent-god.

[Comment: Curiously in the book The Stellar Man by John Baines, the duplicitous Archon of Destiny, who tricked Moses and subsequently thereby became the usurper of power on this planet from the more "people-friendly" former Archon ruler, was known by the letter Y. Does this Y refer to Yahweh and therefore to Crown-Prince Enlil?]

The same conflict is seen in the Tale of Adapa when Enki prevented An (Enlil later came to represent An as he became the senior god) from tampering with his creation. There are echoes of this dissension in the Third Book of Enoch, when this Patriarch was to be given godhood and immortality. The "angels" representing the older order protested that God was revealing divine secrets to Man. They remind him that "did not the primeval ones give you good advice when they said 'don't create man'?"

To the conservative and older gods, man was considered to be an inferior animal, for time and time again he is criticized for his sweaty and dirty mammalism. In the Third Book of Enoch man is scorned by the minor gods or angels who characterize him as "mankind born of woman, blemished, unclean, defiled by blood and impure flux, men who sweat putrid drops." This disgust of the angels towards their sweaty and hairy mammal cousins is reiterated throughout the Old Testament where this dislike is masked under the imagery of the "weakness of the flesh."

The Anunnaki delighted in their reptilian appearance - their sleek, lustrous, and gleaming bodies - and mammal traits were repugnant to them. From an objective point of view, the elegance and beauty of the reptile form has much to recommend it. It is difficult to see how physical repugnance to these creatures developed.

The problem of revulsion is a difficult one, and better left to psychoanalysts. It seems largely to be a learned experience, a result of what we are taught when we are young. On the other hand, the lingering memory of the brutish and barbarous treatment by the reptilian ancestors may exist in our subconscious and contribute to the dislike of reptiles.

[Comment: Again we can single out another difference between the cultures of the Ancient Greeks and Hebrews. In Greece the gods and goddesses were considered to represent the ultimate in physical beauty and perfection. And as has been noted earlier, one of the primary reasons for the creation of Judaism in the first place was a rebellion against all things Greek. Thus, this revulsion to Saurian Gods may have originated at the same moment in time when Moses and his priests had to deal with the consequences of his pact with the "evil" Archon, ultimately leading to the Judaic religious traditions and this notion of the "repulsiveness" of anything reptilian.]

IMMORTALITY AS ACHIEVED BY REGENERATION

more at the link.

ultimate
23-06-2008, 11:14 PM
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

synergy777
24-06-2008, 03:42 PM
questions of power

some think the deity that created these dimensions eg the world/space, the astral/spiritual realms and the hell/heaven etc is an evil one. thats like the gnostic view.

what i do not get is that if the deity which created the physical and spiritual realms is evil/all powerful, then why the struggle to control it. you would think with all his power, and all this time, that taking over some apes would be easy, lol.

or does this deity need our acceptance, for this lie/illusion to work, does the deity trick us into thinking he controls earth, space, spirit realms. as then we give him control/energy through our "free will".

however our free will is compromised due to false information.

why not control us outright, without resorting to covert means etc.

why not openly rule?

also if this deity has the power to create these realms, did he also create us, if so then why all this trouble in controlling us, needing our energy etc.

also if this deity is powerful enough to create dimensions, humans, why does he need to hide

also what is the deity / entity which created him.

thus this deity is not all powerful in my view, even though at times it seems like that.

my view is that the source/most high/creator is all powerful, and more powerful than the deity who might have created this world/spirit realms.

as there is good in this world and us, thus the power/love comes from somewhere, and the deity cannot stop it, thus it is weaker than source/creator.

hence, the source/creator created a diety, which through free will/ambition might have created this world/spiritual relams and us, but ultimately is not the highest power, as he has to put so much deception into maintaining power.

i see this deity, lucifer/satan etc as a dictator, one who rules through power/deception. why all the need for satanic rituals/sacrfices to increase energy/power etc.

why the need to hide the truth. why not completely destroy all texts which speak of a good source/creator. why not take over properly, live in public as a god/king, control us 100%, make us believe in satanic religion, treat us as his pawns etc.

if you have this power, you need not control us in the decietful manner, in which he does, you control with total power. you control without hiding.

i believe the deity, lies about his total power, i think he maintains power by controlling information/deception.

thus the information/religion/science, controls and forms our beliefs. we all know how powerful beliefs are, how they control the mind/perception. thus if he can makes us believe that he is all powerful, then we believe that, and thus give him control.

if he can make us believe that we are our body/mind, which he controls through information etc, then we are his.

however if we realise that true power does not rule in this deceiitful way, then he is lying about his power.

if we know that in order to keep power, he needs to control our minds/beliefs, with false information, then his power is based on a lie/deception.

if we learn, acknowledge that we are spirits in a body, and that this body is our temporal nature, we know that he is lying about our true nature/power.

then we know that we are spirts, more powerful than we can imagine, more powerful than we are programmed to believe.

we are caught in this test/battle on many levels, mental, spiritual in this realm and the etheral/spirit realms

we need to reclaim our power and use it to free ourselves and eachother, so that we may enjoy life in a beautiful, peaceful world.

1love/peace

synergy777
01-07-2008, 03:33 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=4199

Go Your Own Way: Gnosis And The Fractal Spiral

2008 06 30

By Neil Kramer | thecleaver.blogspot.com

You have to work on yourself before you can really get anywhere.

No one can do it for you.

The magical codex and the dimensional escape hatch remain firmly out of reach for now. The flame will burn those who are unable to hold it safely in their hands. The universe insists, most adamantly, that we learn how to do it all by ourselves. Gnosis, spiritual attainment, esoteric wisdom. Whatever you want to call it. No cheating, no looking at your friend's paper, no plagiarising - you must do your own thing in your own way. Otherwise, we are compelled to repeat the same tests over and over again, through multiple lifetimes, until we finally figure it out. So you have to do the homework. Sharpen your blade. Keep moving. Fortunately, there is no time limit and everyone’s ascendant path is custom-built for their own unique growth pattern. In spiritual terms, it’s a win-win situation.

To help penetrate the all-pervading mists of the illusion, one must first acknowledge that consciousness is not the accidental and purposeless by-product of the human condition. The perceived world that we appear to be locked inside, like the silver ball in a pinball machine, is wholly a construct of consciousness.

The pinball constructs the machine around itself. Whilst a testing notion for even the most elastic of modern philosophical minds, it has been known for aeons by the ancient mystical traditions and experienced directly by the indigenous shamanic cultures of every continent. Now, it is being evoked again as a progressive scientific theory in quantum physics.

It is not new information we are bringing to mind, not by any means. It is better described as a remembrance.

Consciousness is a transcendental music with which we can attune, conduct and create. The spiritually synchronized mind instinctively discerns this. Consciousness flows through all things. It follows that consciousness itself does not originate in the brain of the individual. It is at root, a non-local force. The quantum and holographic traces of this have been unfolding for some time now, most intriguingly in the works of Gebser, Bohm, Pribram and Laszlo.

The personal experience of consciousness is better conceived of as a tunnel, or an uplink, to the akashic field (aka the universal field, vacuum field, noosphere etc) which is dynamically connected to everything and everywhere. Perhaps the field is composed of the same subspace luminous filaments that Castaneda’s mythical figure of Don Juan spoke of so enigmatically; these being the fractal structures of consciousness itself, elaborately extending themselves across the multiverse, articulating every conceivable resolution. Our thoughts, feelings and articulations are unique expressions [configurations] of the field.

Our imaginal thoughtforms sculpt its physical and psychic manifestations.

Subspace And Not-Thinking

Consciousness operates in a field which is not bound by the restrictions of third density conditions (time & space). Consequently, it may seamlessly reach into higher dimensions/fractal resolutions and potentially innumerable parallel universes, as indicated in superstring theory and m-theory.

This is how telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance and similar extra sensory perception phenomena function, by jumping into the subspace field and observing any point along it, instantly and completely.

Travel without movement. The coherence vector or signal quality is the difference between a faint intuition of something (I think my Aunty Barbara might call this evening) and a full-on vision (a 25ft meteorite will land in my back garden tomorrow at 9:45am and destroy the lawnmower).

To maximize signal fidelity, to get the most accurate information, the mind must be trained to quieten the perpetual internal dialogue, the chatter of the brain.

Thinking is brain churn. Knowing is field connection. Whilst deductive reasoning is practical for information processing, it can stand in the way of the coherent field connection necessary to attain wisdom.

Many deep mystical experiences encountered in different planes of consciousness are so state specific that they cannot easily be brought back into the third density for adequate expression using the modern linguistic symbol set. Articulation is not always necessary for total comprehension. Standard ‘remote viewing’ technique (the psychic ability to gather information about a distant or unseen target) teaches the student not to think. The collective consciousness within the field knows everything already. It can communicate any information about anything right into your head at supraluminal speeds. So why are some able to remote view and others not?

Impulsive brain chatter obscures the incoming data, like static on a TV screen. We need to learn to step out of the way. Meditation brings insight into the thinking process, helping to smooth it out and sometimes stop it altogether, allowing deeper perceptions to be received. Toltec shamanism teaches the apprentice the procedure of ‘stopping the world’ as a means of placing false egoic thinking aside in order to perceive the world shamanically, or if you prefer, to establish a stable uplink to the field.

Interfacing with reality is more instructive than purely theorizing about it. We have long since reached the saturation point of the narrow scientific method with its reliance on separation, measurement and reductionism. Such materialist inferences, no matter how scrupulous, are at odds with the holistic multidisciplinary attitude required for actual conscious evolution.

They only obstruct efforts to perceive beyond the particulate cloak of Maya.

The primacy of felt experience is consistently more edifying and meaningful than the smug abstractions of ‘scientism’ (the belief that scientific principles are essential to all other disciplines, including philosophical, mystical, spiritual and humanist interpretations of life). The Control System sponsors scientism by overexposing various trenchant physicists, atheists and parapsychologists who all exhibit some form of spiritual devolution. As smart and kooky as some of them are, they lack the psychic integrity and spiritual humility that is so palpable in those who truly walk the path.

Small Is Beautiful

Far from being the exotic anthropological oddity it was once depicted as, shamanism is the original spiritual experience of all indigenous peoples. Present in the savannas of Africa, the jungles of the Amazon, the plains of America, the mountains of Asia and the forests of Europe, shamanism was an integral mystical practice of deep esoteric and spiritual importance to both individuals and communities.

Thus it remained, organically ascendant, up until a few thousand years ago when the personal, sovereign right to a spiritual connection with the divine was removed from daily life.

This was achieved by hijacking and co-opting all systems of transcendence into the dark canopy of organized religion.

The fake priesthood. - the elite

They took what they liked, pruned the liberating and inspiring bits and threw the rest away. Anyone who sought to practice their own mysticism or dared to resurrect the old ways was executed. Many such religious crusades were prosecuted against ancient spiritual and shamanic practices, campaigns that today would fall under the technical terminology of genocide.

If you trace the origins of the major monotheistic organized religions back far enough, it becomes clear that they were never designed to help the individual grow and develop. They were there to control land, dictate moral and social norms and separate the common man from his divine heritage.

Higher consciousness, personal freedom and spiritual communion, far from being the core elements of their basic mystical teachings, were concepts firmly discouraged by the various priest castes. In their place, the disempowering qualities of submission, victimhood, repression and guilt became the preferred tenets of worshipful compliance.

Most who walk the path have long since discarded the unnecessary restraints of organized religion. There are many good people who still operate within the conventions and structures of Christianity in particular, and that is of course, their prerogative. However, it doesn’t take much research into alternative history and the ancient indigenous chronicles to discover that the sacred texts that form the backbone of today’s megareligions are merely distorted versions of much earlier and authentic methods of spiritual practice.

Despite the artful stage-managed resurgence of religious fundamentalism in both the east and west, the crude pious repressions of the Control System are beginning to lose their grip. People are realizing that they can anoint themselves as their own special representative on earth (who else could they be?) and their own personal channel to the holy spirit.

Fractal Dreams

In ‘The Art Of Dreaming’, Carlos Castaneda wrote, "Don Juan contended that our world, which we believe to be unique and absolute, is only one in a cluster of consecutive worlds, arranged like the layers of an onion. He asserted that even though we have been energetically conditioned to perceive solely our world, we still have the capability of entering into those other realms, which are as real, unique, absolute and engulfing as our own world is. Believing that our energetic conditioning is correctable, don Juan stated that sorcerers of ancient times developed a set of practices designed to recondition our energetic capabilities to perceive. They called this set of practices the art of dreaming." When I first read that in 1994, two things sprang to mind. (i) How don Juan was absolutely spot on, and (ii) rather fittingly, how the process of unfolding the onion layers of reality can indeed bring tears to your eyes.

The ‘cluster of consecutive worlds’ is a fractal model. The essential pattern of creation is encoded into everything, all the way down the line, from galaxies to cauliflowers. It helps to examine fractal formations in nature to properly appreciate their properties. I have collated some useful illustrations of fractal geometry in the attached picture (click for larger version).

The geometry and mathematics of fractal forms has been studied since the 17th century (in modern history that is) but their complexity and infinite recursive depth made progress slow. The arrival of computers in the 1970’s made things much simpler. Rapid processing, sophisticated graphics and software modelling enabled researchers to explore the depth of fractals to a level never seen before. Researchers categorize fractal generation into three different classes:

*(1) Escape-time Fractals; Mandelbrot set, Julia set, Nova fractal,


*(2) Iterated Function Systems; Cantor set, Koch snowflake, Sierpinski carpet


*(3) Random Fractals. In random fractals, we see dendritic fractals demonstrate the fundamental natural property of diffusion-limited aggregation (DLA). DLA is best illustrated in the physical manifestations of fern growth, ice crystals, tree branch growth and electrical discharges. See the aforementioned montage image for examples.

Observing the nautilus shell, we encounter the living embodiment of the Fibonacci sequence of numbers 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765. So important to sacred geometry, Egyptology and the ancient mystery cults. For those who may have cast off their high school mathematics (understandably in most cases), the Fibonacci sequence establishes the first number as 0 and the second number as 1. Each subsequent number is equal to the sum of the previous two numbers.


The sequence presents itself in nature in the branching of trees, the structure of pineapples, artichoke flowering, uncurling ferns, the arrangement of pine cones and the spiralling florets in the head of a sunflower (see image, click for larger version). Stunningly beautiful.

The recursive, self-iterative nature of fractals, clearly visible in the Mandelbrot and Koch snowflake, begin to speak to the higher consciousness and express some of the underlying structures of reality. The fractal holography of the universe imprints the design of itself into each individual component, each creative lego brick.

All elements are coded with the entire universal design project.

The ancient druidic respect for the oak tree and the acorn were symbols of this core understanding. As then, so now, such meditations lead to a fuller comprehension of the sacred mysteries of creation. Our art is to project into higher and deeper resolutions of the fractal spiral, gathering gnosis and wisdom as spiritual gravitation compels the ascendant homeward journey.

Our life is the journey. We illustrate it with our unique and miraculous stories. Our learning helps to improve the coherence and the elegance of the fractal. Our capacity for consciousness determines how deep we can go. I sense that each lifetime, each self, each frequency of being, emanates fractally from a larger, grander structure, from where our higher self guides us and loves us. Perhaps even these ultra conscious entities are expressions of an even more sublime intelligence. Gazing at the head of the sunflower, it certainly feels that way.

Article from http://thecleaver.blogspot.com/2008/06/go-your-own-
way-gnosis-and-fractal.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Related: Red Ice Creations Radio - Neil Kramer - Awakening, Eschatology & Entheogens
When Worlds Collide: The Cern Stargate
What some Think About Existence
Intimacy With Divinity
When Worlds Collide: The Cern Stargate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


this article sums up what i have found out for myself through science, scripture, and personal experience. it is painful but necessary, we can all be awakened/annointed, we can all be the one, and one.

synergy777
31-07-2008, 11:05 PM
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/

You Tube: Liberating Jesus from Christianity Christ didn’t call himself the “Son of God” but the “Son of Man”. Kim Michaels has some interesting perspectives on Jesus Christ and what institutionalised Christianity has done to his legacy


Liberating Jesus from Christianity - YouTube

octopusrex
31-07-2008, 11:08 PM
Hey, dude..

You are one dude I'd like to meet.

seven_star_hand
01-08-2008, 01:58 AM
Time to open your eyes and "see" the "light," hence [understand] the [truth].

Jesus is the Roman fantasy character designed to trap people and direct them to religion, instead of wisdom. Nobody by that name ever lived. All other instances of that name are translated as Joshua. The Messiah (Teacher) delivers truth and wisdom, not religion.

Open Letter to Religious Leaders (http://*****************/openletter1)
Open Letter to Atheists and Skeptics (http://*****************/openletter2)

Here is Wisdom... (http://*****************/sevenstars)

Peace...

synergy777
05-09-2008, 12:51 AM
Rik Clay a great researcher

thanks to craig oxley / 2tuff of unhived mind

http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MIND/index.php?showtopic=57604

Rik Clay - The Cosmic Mind: Q & A

June 12, 2008

We invite Rik Clay from "The Cosmic Mind" back to the program to follow up on the show did last Sunday. This time we have a questions and answers session. We begin to talk about the some feedback on the last program we did and about "rules" and restrictions you have to adjust to when you're making the kind of connections that Rik is making. We discuss the Greek origins of the Olympic games, the opening ceremonies and the symbolism involved in the games. Topics Discussed: Tibet, Dalai Lama, The Orange, Rose and Saffron Revolution, Rituals, Ley lines, Energy, TV coverage, Age of Aquarious, Water, Global Warming, "X Marks the spot", 666 and XXX, Nazi Olympics 1936, Alien Contact, Movies, Diana, Project Bluebeam and much more

part 1 of the interview
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/06jun/RICR-080612.php

part 2 of the interview
http://www.mediafire.com/?wcxj0muuujp

rik clay all his work and links
http://dafta.ueuo.com/index.html

rik Clay 2012 .pdf file
NOTICE

all these links are worth downloading, there are 2 mp3 interviews and a great pdf of all his work. download them, learn from them and pass them around to everyone

these are a must view / listen, mark my words.

1love/peace

oiram
05-09-2008, 03:47 AM
i believe the archons to be the fallen angels, those that rebelled against yhwh
what do you mean by this, her, is satan a female/lillith

i thought satan was fallen angel, who battled archangel michael.

i think the elite have tarnished females on purpose, eve etc. its females who allow man to better himself, open him up to the emotional/loving aspect of life, yin and yang.

all teachers from krishna, buddha and yashuah thanked the most high, we are merely instruments/channels of the most high.

like malcom x said, all the good things that have happened, all the good things i have done in my life, have been from the creator, only the mistakes were mine.You guys are much more professionally getting into this stuff! I look at the information in this thread more globally and look at key points & the reaction of others to what is represented here!

Just my observation & opinion "synergy777" you collected a lot of good information! Then I seen here was "bigus_dickus" jumping into your posts ones your points got clearer and started to make sense! Secondly he or she is using an animal aviator! Coincidently a Cat the animal conscience maybe talking here! A cat I always in my life related to a typical woman character!

To me all & everything has a symbolic meaning no matter good or bad; which also can be use to evaluate the character of a person!

Now to me "bigus_dickus" looks to me he gives something and in the next moment takes it away like an brain Sergent!
I also responded to the same "bigus_dickus" made Satan became a her! Which hits me on the head because I always say a woman is Satan's perfect tool & has her place on the right side of Satan to destroy Humanity's normal ways! One more his or her member name is "bigus_dickus" in Indonesian Tikus means Rat which the cat feeds on! Anyway it's just my observation & gut feelings and "bigus_dickus" is poison for me & a sneaky ,cunning typical Cat character!

Just my feeling! Sorry if I'm wrong in pushing your button "bigus_dickus" but I am honest here; you got a very strange way of representing your self in Postings!

A bit off topic maybe?
"But all of us seeking the truth should know about this so we just ignore infiltrators ones identified!"
I just hate when some people try to disturb interesting Post's!
Just look at this and evaluate the tactics applied!
COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum..

There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'

Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'

If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by 'forum sliding.' In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to 'age.' Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a 'forum slide.' The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a 'forum slide' and 'flush' the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then 'replying' to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting 'slides' down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.

Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'

A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is 'consensus cracking.' To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger 'evidence' or disinformation in your favour is slowly 'seeded in.' Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then 'abort' the consensus cracking by initiating a 'forum slide.'

Technique #3 - 'TOPIC DILUTION'

Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a 'RESOURCE BURN.' By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt (trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a 'gossip mode.' In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to 'drive in the wedge.' By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.

Technique #4 - 'INFORMATION COLLECTION'

Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a 'show you mine so me yours' posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your 'favourite weapon' and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite 'technique of operation.' From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.

Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Technique #6 - 'GAINING FULL CONTROL'

It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings - and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the 'ultimate victory' as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a 'honey pot' gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.

CONCLUSION

Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.

synergy777
05-09-2008, 03:08 PM
oiram, cheers. i believe a real man existed called yeshua/yashuah/jesus. i believe he was not conceived by immaculate conception, i believe this to be mystery school/esoteric symbolism. i believe like us, he was normal person, lived, suffered the trials and tribulations of all mortals. he reached gnosis, after life experience and wisdom from teachers/texts etc. thats why he told us we are all the same, all children of the supreme/source. the elite wanted to hide this, as it made all of us equal, gave all of us the power.

so my view is this, that the core messages of all religions are the same, they preach a personal relationship with god, hence no need for the clergy/priesthood to act as intermediaries. thats why the clergy took over religions, its about power/wealth they gain from corrupting religion.

i have met good jews, christians, muslims etc, thus i know there are good and bad people from every religion. i know from my own personal experience and not elite propaganda.

recognise the corruption of man. we do not know muhammed, we know what others have wrote about him. say the elite wanted to justify subjugation of women, they would write, mohammed said this, so you have to do it. who would question it? mohammed said that islam ould only last for a short time, before the priests corrupted it, how many imams tell you about this?, none of them. yashuah/jesus fought against the priests of the temple, and yet these priests and the romans, created his religion. so if those who you fight against, create a religion about you, after they kill you, can you trust them?

all these people spoke of equality for both genders, equality of all people. they spoke about a personal relationship eg pray/talk/meditate to god, like a child would talk to a parent. they did not say only the priests can save you did they. they said the kingdom of heaven is within, eg your spirit.

i believe religion is the elites creation they based it on wisdom form the source/god/creator, added their esoteric/luciferic/solar symbolism, and then enforced it on the masses.

i believe the fallen/annunaki/archons etc control the 5 sense reality and spirit realms. i believe they fool us into thinking we are in heaven/hell, and then makes us reincarnate, thus we are trapped in the cycle of birth and death. thus true liberation from this cycle/multi layered matrix is hard and only a few make it. this is what yashuah, buddha taught you, to not taste the second death, to get liberated from the cycle, samsara. the liberation is mukti/moksha.

Samsara
Saṃsāra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Samsara or saṃsāra (Sanskrit: संसार; Tibetan: khor wa; Mongolian: orchilong) refers to the cycle of reincarnation or rebirth in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism and other related religions.

In modern Sanskrit-derived languages, it is primarily used to mean "world" in the theological sense[citation needed]. In other words it signifies life on earth as a place of suffering and exile from one's true origins[citation needed].

According to these religions, one's karmic 'account balance' at the time of death is inherited via the state at which a person is reborn. During the course of each worldly life actions committed (for good or ill) determine the future destiny of each being in the process of becoming (evolution or devolution). At death the underlying volitional impulses (samskaras) thus accrued and developed are carried and transmitted in a consciousness structure popularly known as the soul which, after an intermediate period (in Tibetan called the bardo) forms the basis for a new biological structure that will result in rebirth and a new life. This process is considered to go on indefinitely until insight leads a person to practice renunciation of worldly pursuits and practices instead the virtues.

In Sikhism, it is thought that due to the commendable past actions and deeds (known as karma or kirat) that people obtain the chance of human birth, which is regarded in Sikhism as the highest possible on Earth and therefore an opportunity that should not be wasted. And only by continued good actions and the "Grace of the Almighty" can one obtain liberation from the continuous cycle of births and deaths of various bodily forms that the soul has been undergoing since the creation of the universe. The end of the cycle of transmigration of the soul is known as mukti. For Sikhs, the state of mukti can be achieved whilst still alive, known as "Jivan Mukat", literally "liberated whilst alive".

moksha/mukti
Moksha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Indian religions, Moksha (Sanskrit: मोक्ष mokṣa, liberation or salvation) or Mukti (Sanskrit: मुक्ति, release) is liberation from samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth or reincarnation and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence. In Hindu philosophy, it is seen as a transcendence of phenomenal being, a state of higher consciousness, in which matter, energy, time, space, causation (karma) and the other features of empirical reality are understood as maya(illusion).

planetsadhana
05-09-2008, 03:21 PM
i agree somewhat with you synergy, yeshua' s message and teaching was the main thing, i think he was trying to point out the traps and bondage mankind has found itself in

I will leave it at that as i dont want to get caught up in the christian or non believer argument:)

my avartar is "cosmic christ" by alex grey quite cool i thought

synergy777
05-09-2008, 06:46 PM
see christ is a title, like buddha. christ is not a surname. its a state of being. christ comes from kristos (greek).

yashua was called yashuah/yeshua ben yosef, eg jesus son of joseph. ben means son, yosef is joseph. as there is no j in the hebrew/aramaic aplhabet.

oiram
06-09-2008, 12:59 AM
oiram, cheers. i believe a real man existed called yeshua/yashuah/jesus. i believe he was not conceived by immaculate conception, i believe this to be mystery school/esoteric symbolism. i believe like us, he was normal person, lived, suffered the trials and tribulations of all mortals. he reached gnosis, after life experience and wisdom from teachers/texts etc. thats why he told us we are all the same, "ones we found the Truth" we all children of the supreme/source. the elite wanted to hide this, as it made all of us equal, gave all of us the power.

so my view is this, that the core messages of all religions are the same, they preach a personal relationship with god, hence no need for the clergy/priesthood to act as intermediaries. thats why the clergy took over religions, its about power/wealth they gain from corrupting religion.

i have met good jews, christians, muslims etc, thus i know there are good and bad people from every religion. i know from my own personal experience and not elite propaganda. Yes!!!!
One small input from me "in Blue!"
I expected no other answer from you! Because I know you already who you are my friend!
In this small comment of your's; you answered all & everything which needs to be known!
I hope one day ones all this madness is over to meet you; we would make a good team to create things for the good & not to destroy everything like all are doing right now!

You got my full respect!

Man; you just look after your self; we will be the most needed Humans on this Earth to help our future to move in the right direction!

Truth & consequent Love will prevail no matter what happens!!!!!!!!!

synergy777
06-09-2008, 09:28 PM
oiram, cheers bro, its just my view on things. hopefully i can improve and get a more accurate analysis, but for now, this is a good starting point/foundation.

hopefully one day we will meet, and a couple of well earnt cold beers, lol

synergy777
12-09-2008, 04:00 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=4789

Rik Clay’s interviews on Red Ice Creations – All Four Segments
2008 09 12

By Henrik Palmgren | redicecreations.com

Here we make available all the four segments of radio interviews that Red Ice Creations did with Rik Clay back in June 2008.

Rik Clay took his own life on August the 28th. His remains was scattered Thursday, September the 11th and now when things have settled down a little bit, it’s a good time to make these interviews available for everyone who haven’t yet been able to hear them.


Rik Clay - The Cosmic Mind: Zion 2012 Olympics
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/06jun/RICR-080608.php

Researcher Rik Clay who is behind the blog "The Cosmic Mind" joins us to discuss his findings about the Zion Olympics in London leading up to the end game year 2012. Rik presents his thesis in this very interesting two segment program. We begin to discuss how RIk got into the subject matter and then go into the connection with numerology and synchronicity. Topics Discussed: 11:11, pyramid numerology, Solar Eclipse, September Eleventh, The Birth of Christ, Zion, Summer Olympics 1972 Münich, 1984 Los Angeles, Eye Symbolism, Corporate Symbolism, Joining of Islam and Christianity, Angel Gabriel, William Blake, Wally Olins and much more. Join us in the members section as we continue our discussion with Rik about the 2012 Olympics and how this event in a ritualistic way is connect with zion and the "end game messiah".

-------------------------------------------------------------

Rik Clay - The Cosmic Mind: The End Game Messiah of 2012
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/06jun/RICR-080608-SUB.php

We continue our fascinating discussion with Rik Clay about his thesis on the 2012 Zion Olympics and how this connects with the trinity of the "new age" and how an "end game messiah" will be presented to us around 2012. Topics Discussed: Precession, Astrological Ages, Religion, Transition of the Ages, A Trinity Event, Osiris-Isis-Horus, New World Order of the Ages, Diana, Galadriel, Ritual Murder of Diana, Prince William as the new Sun King, Haiti Massacre, Port-au-Prince, Olympics Rings, Atlantis, Religion of the New World Order, the significance of 7, Chakra System, New Spirituality, Egyptian Roots of Star Religion, the End of the World and much more

--------------------------------------------------------------

Rik Clay - The Cosmic Mind: Q & A
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/06jun/RICR-080612.php

We invite Rik Clay from "The Cosmic Mind" back to the program to follow up on the show did last Sunday. This time we have a questions and answers session. We begin to talk about the some feedback on the last program we did and about "rules" and restrictions you have to adjust to when you're making the kind of connections that Rik is making. We discuss the Greek origins of the Olympic games, the opening ceremonies and the symbolism involved in the games. Topics Discussed: Tibet, Dalai Lama, The Orange, Rose and Saffron Revolution, Rituals, Ley lines, Energy, TV coverage, Age of Aquarious, Water, Global Warming, "X Marks the spot", 666 and XXX, Nazi Olympics 1936, Alien Contact, Movies, Diana, Project Bluebeam and much more. Join us in our second segment as we'll discuss more about project Bluebeam, the fake alien invasion, technological advancement, mind control and the different levels of reality. Don't miss our excellent continuation of this program with Rik Clay

-------------------------------------------------------------

Rik Clay - The Cosmic Mind: Q & A Continued
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/06jun/RICR-080612-SUB.php

We continue our interesting questions and answers session with Rik Clay and talk more about project Blue beam, the fake alien invasion, how technological advancement varies in different fields, mind control technology, cell phone and tetra masts and the different levels of reality. Topics Discussed: 11, The Oscars, I am Legend, Ben Hur, Charlton Heston, Omega Man, Blood, Bloodline, The Knights Templar, Composite Characters, Lily Wave, Prince William, The "merger" of empires though marriage, Alien Technology, Flying Saucers, Airline Technology, Loose Change, 9/11, Different levels of Reality, Consciousness, The News, Georgia Guide stones, Depopulation and much more

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot can be learned both from Rik’s research but also from his journey and this tragedy. We encourage you to listen to the two-hour program that Henrik Palmgren & Ian Crane did about Rik Clay’s death and the surrounding circumstances. This program was recorded the same day as Rik’s ashes was scattered. You can tune in to this program here:


Ian Crane - Rik Clay, Integration, Conspiracy & Spirituality
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/09sep/RICR-080911.php

Ian Crane - Rik Clay, Integration, Conspiracy & Spirituality
September 11, 2008

We have Ian Crane back on the program for a two-hour special to discuss the passing of Rik Clay, Integration, Information, Awakening, Spirituality, Conspiracy and much more. We begin to discuss Rik Clay, we talk about what we so far know happened to him and how he passed away. We talk about the rumors of Rik being murdered, we talk about paranoia and premature conclusions in the "conspiracy movement". We move on to discuss the importance of a careful approach to esoteric, occult and conspiratorial subject matters and the important of integration of knowledge about the conspiracy as well as the spiritual side to all of this. Topics discussed: Transpersonal State, Awakening Process, Change, Research, Internet, Communication, Soul Returning, Healthy Balance, Messiah Complex, Midlife Opportunity, Drugs, Shamanic Journey, Alcohol, Spiritual Entities, Temporary possession, Geopolitics, The Journey vs. Speed, Gurdjieff, Terrence McKenna, Time wave Zero, Jose Arguelles, 2012, Jeff Stray, Destruction of Knowledge, Christianity, Renaissance and much more

dangermouse
12-09-2008, 05:03 PM
I am beginning to think that I am seeing a pattern between all the occultic symbols in the vatican the roman empire and Jesus.

Was Jesus a Roman? Here is an interesting quote I found while "walking on the net" ( :D sry couldnt resist)

Before getting to Graves novel, let me start with background from the Bible. "And Pilate wrote an inscription also, and put it on the cross. And it was written, 'Jesus the Nazarene, The King of the Jews.'" John 19:19 (see also, Matthew 27:37 and Mark 15:26).FN1 The Latin for this phrase is "Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum" which may be shortened to the first letter of each word: "INRI". These letters, by tradition, are depicted above Jesus's head on the cross in Catholic churches and in numerous paintings of the crucifixion from the middle ages. Thus, the Bible tells us the Romans crucified Jesus upon the charge of claiming to be King of the Jews. In Roman eyes, only the Emperor in Rome had the power to determine who was to be the lawful king in Judea (a Roman territory).

Consider further Luke's version of the interrogation of Jesus before Pilate:
"And Pilate asked him, saying, "Are you the King of the Jews?" And he answered him and said, "It is as you say." FN2
And Pilate said to the chief priests and the multitudes, "I find no guilt in this man."
Luke 23:3-4. That is an astonishing sequence. Jesus admits to the Roman magistrate that he claims to be the king of the Jews (a serious political crime under Roman law) and Pilate's response is "I find no guilt in this man"? It makes no sense unless Jesus did in fact possess some legitimate claim to the Jewish throne under Roman law.

Enter Robert Graves. His theory, set forth in the plot of King Jesus, is that Jesus was the son of Antipater, the eldest son of Herod the Great by Doris (his first wife). Thus, per Graves, Jesus had a claim to the Jewish throne in a Roman legal sense as being the only son of Herod's eldest son. According to Graves, the Jews in ancient times followed matrilineal descent under which Jewish kings ruled by marriage to a princess of the ruling house. He further states that the line of Michal is older than, and became part of, the line of Eli (to which David belonged). Thus, a Jewish king in the time of Jesus would gain a claim to the Jewish throne under Jewish law through marriage to a princess from the house of Michal. Mary, the mother of Jesus, again according to Graves, was by matrilineal descent a princess in the house of Michal. Thus, Jesus was in fact the true Jewish king under both Roman and Jewish law.
http://www.jjraymond.com/books/historicalfiction/kingjesus.html

Now onto the Catholic Church

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/piazza.jpg
Here you see a view of the piazza or plaza at the Vatican, also known as St. Peter's square. The papal palace is on the right edge of the photo. The large eight-rayed sun wheel design, symbolic of Ishtar, is immediately noticeable. Look closely in the center of the wheel. What you see there is an obelisk, a genuine Egyptian obelisk shipped from Heliopolis to Rome by the Roman emperor Caligula. The obelisk is, of course, a phallic symbol,* but it also was used in sun worship.

* It is claimed that the word 'obelisk' literally means 'Baal's shaft' or 'Baal's organ of reproduction'. Source: Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated, by Dr. Cathy Burns, pg. 341.


http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/obelisk-baal.jpg
Here is an old photo of the center of St. Peter's square, and note that around the obelisk, at the center of the huge eight-point sun wheel, is a smaller four-pointed sun wheel, the same symbol as found on the altar stone in the temple of Baal in Hatzor!

Below is an artifact unearthed in the holy of holies of the pagan temple in the Canaanite city of Hatzor / Hazor, in northern Israel. It is described as follows:
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/hazor-baal.jpg
"Of special interest is a square basalt altar for burning incense. On one of its sides, a circle with a cross in the center – the divine symbol of the Canaanite storm god – is carved in low relief."

"... a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center"


http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/papal-palace.jpg



Here is a photo of the papal palace with the pope at the window of his apartment. Note the many eight-pointed stars of Ishtar in the decorative work above the windows. Some are within a darker circle.


http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/hazor-baal-2.jpg
Symbol for Baal
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/shamash-symbol.jpg
Symbol for Shamash (pagan Sun God)

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/wheel.htm

bendoon
12-09-2008, 05:13 PM
Just to correct a couple of inacuracies in your quote.

Luk 23:3 ¶ And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest [it].

Jesus did not say he was the King of the Jews, why would he when he had no intention of being.

the Jews in ancient times followed matrilineal descent under which Jewish kings ruled by marriage to a princess of the ruling house

No they didn't it was always through the paternal line

And the Roman Church is the Satanic conterfeit Church which is why they have all the Pagan symbols and Idol worship.

synergy777
12-09-2008, 05:13 PM
some good info, especially about jesus. have you read anystuff about from ralph ellis/red ice, he also speaks of jesus . he thinks jesus was a great grandson of cleopatra, and had claims to roman, jewish and persian kingdoms, aswell as links to king arthur.

as for the king claim, i think if jesus was enlightend, he would have never made the claims of being a king, as he would have realised that everybody was equal, the same. thus the claims of kingship, messiah status, chosen one etc, are to me signs of corruption/ego/claridad. as i believe that all humans are created equally in the eyes of the most high/source etc, thus as a parent should love all his children equally, so does our creator/source love us all equally.

as for the esoteric symbolism of the vatican spot on, not only the vatican, but most important sites of all religions.

dangermouse
12-09-2008, 07:28 PM
some good info, especially about jesus. have you read anystuff about from ralph ellis/red ice, he also speaks of jesus . he thinks jesus was a great grandson of cleopatra, and had claims to roman, jewish and persian kingdoms, aswell as links to king arthur.

as for the king claim, i think if jesus was enlightend, he would have never made the claims of being a king, as he would have realised that everybody was equal, the same. thus the claims of kingship, messiah status, chosen one etc, are to me signs of corruption/ego/claridad. as i believe that all humans are created equally in the eyes of the most high/source etc, thus as a parent should love all his children equally, so does our creator/source love us all equally.

as for the esoteric symbolism of the vatican spot on, not only the vatican, but most important sites of all religions.

Well I haven't read any of his stuff but I have listened to him on Red Ice. Did hear the idea that Jesus went to India and learned meditation from bhuddist monks and didn't die on the cross because he was meditating ?(found that one a little bit of a stretch of the imagination myself :rolleyes:

phildee3
12-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Did hear the idea that Jesus went to India and learned meditation from bhuddist monks and didn't die on the cross because he was meditating ?(found that one a little bit of a stretch of the imagination myself :rolleyes:



Every story about him stretches the imagination,

that's what makes them, and him, so fantastic!

synergy777
13-09-2008, 01:46 AM
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/India_and_Egypt.htm

Neither historical events nor cross-cultural currents can explain the unique parallels in the myths and imagery of ancient Egypt and India. Walafrid Strabo (c. 809–849) German scholar has said: "The lotus flower, sacred to Buddha and to Osiris, has five petals which symbolizes the four limbs and the head; the five senses; the five digits; and like the pyramid, the four parts of the compass and the zenith. Other esoteric meanings abound: for myths are seldom simple, and never irresponsible."
Indian contacts with the Western world date back to prehistoric times. Trade relations, preceded by the migration of peoples, inevitably developed into cultural relations. Evidence of Indian contact with the ancient civilizations to her west, however is certain. Knobbed pottery vases came to Sumer from India and so did cotton. In the Akkadian tongue, Indian cotton was expressed by ideographs meaning "vegetable cloth." Assurbanipal (668-626 B.C) cultivated Indian plants including the "wool-bearing trees" of India.

According to the Skandha Purana, Egypt (Africa) was known as Sancha-dvipa continent mentioned in Sir Willliams Jones' dissertation on Egypt. At Alexandria, in Egypt, Indian scholars were a common sight: they are mentioned both by Dio Chrysostom (c. 100 A.D.) and by Clement (c. 200 A.D.) Indirect contact between ancient India and Egypt through Mesopotamia is generally admitted, but evidence of a direct relationship between the two is at best fragmentary. Peter Von Bohlen (1796-1840) German Indologist, compared India with ancient Egypt. He thought there was a cultural connection between the two in ancient times. There are elements of folk art, language, and rural culture of Bengal which have an affinity with their Egyptian counterparts and which have not been explained satisfactorily in terms of Aryan, Mongolian, or Dravidian influences. There are similarities between place names in Bengal and Egypt and recently an Egyptian scholar, El Mansouri, has pointed out that in both Egypt and India the worship of cow, sun, snake, and river are common.

Recently, more definitive evidence suggesting contact between India and Egypt has become available. A terracotta mummy from Lothal vaguely resembles an Egyptian mummy and a similar terracotta mummy is found also at Mohenjodaro. In this context it is of interest to note that the Egyptian mummies are said to have been wrapped in Indian muslin. Characters similar to those on the Indus seals have also been found on tablets excavated from Easter Island.

Of all the Egyptian objects and motifs indicating some contact between India and Egypt during the Indus Valley period, "the cord pattern occurring in a copper tablet in the Indus Valley and on three Egyptian seals is the most striking link between the two countries. Gordon Childe has said, "In other words, in the third millennium B.C. India was already in a position to contribute to the building up of the cultural tradition that constitutes our spiritual heritage as she notoriously has done since the time of Alexander."

Introduction
The Lotus and the River
Cultural Contacts with Egypt
The Sun King and Dasharatha
The Persian Connection
Links to Ancient Egypt
Conclusion

***

Introduction

Peter Von Bohlen (1796-1840) German Indologist, compared India with ancient Egypt. He thought there was a cultural connection between the two in ancient times.

(source: German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies writing in German - By Valentine Stache-Rosen. p.15-16).

In his book, Empire of the Soul: Some Journeys in India, Paul William Roberts, states:

" Recent research and scholarship make it increasingly possible to believe that the Vedic era was the lost civilization whose legacy the Egyptians and the Indians inherited. There must have been one. There are too many similarities between hieroglyphic texts and Vedic ones, these in turn echoed in somewhat diluted form and a confused fashion by the authors of Babylonian texts and the Old Testament."

(source: Empire of the Soul: Some Journeys in India - By Paul William Roberts p. 300).

It is believed that the Dravidians from India went to Egypt and laid the foundation of its civilization there. the Egyptians themselves had the tradition that they originally came from the South, from a land called Punt, which an historian of the West, Dr. H.R. Hall, thought referred to some part of India.

The Indus Valley civilization is, according to Sir John Marshall who was in charge of the excavations, the oldest of all civilizations unearthed (c. 4000 B.C.) It is older than the Sumerian and it is believed by many that the latter was a branch of the former.

(source: The Bhagvad Gita: A Scripture for the Future - Translation and Commentary by Sachindra K. Majumdar p. 28).

-----------------------------------------------------

more at the link.

remember what i said before that egyptain and vedic texts were fused in babylon by the priesthood, this then could have been the basis for the old testament, imho. then remember the vedic connections to jews, eg flavius josephus, conta apinon, chapter 1 22:16. then from babylon to rome.

add to this the romany migration from india to europe, and the vedic/celtic connections.

synergy777
14-09-2008, 06:34 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=4779

Catholics will no longer address God as ‘Yahweh’
2008 09 12

From: thericatholic.com

In the not-too-distant future, songs such as "You Are Near," "I Will Bless Yahweh" and "Rise, O Yahweh" will no longer be part of the Catholic worship experience in the United States.

At the very least, the songs will be edited to remove the word "Yahweh" – a name of God that the Vatican has ruled must not "be used or pronounced" in songs and prayers during Catholic Masses.

Father Ronald E. Brassard, the pastor of Immaculate Conception parish in Cranston, said the new directive is "a good thing. This directive is the Church showing great sensitivity to... our Jewish brothers and sisters."

The Tetragrammaton is YHWH, the four consonants of the ancient Hebrew name for God.

"Essentially the tradition in Scripture and especially with Jewish people is that the name of God is so sacred that it's never said, you never say Yahweh, it's offensive to the Jewish people," Father Brassard explained. He added that the change apparently is to go into effect immediately.

Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli of Paterson, N.J., chairman of the U.S. Bishop’s Committee on Divine Worship, announced the new Vatican "directives on the use of 'the name of God' in the sacred liturgy" in an Aug. 8 letter to his fellow bishops.

He said the directives would not "force any changes to official liturgical texts" or to the bishops' current missal translation project but would likely have "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

For most Catholics the change will only be apparent in a few pieces of music and perhaps in specific translations of the Bible, Father Brassard said.

Bishop Serratelli's letter to bishops came with a two-page letter from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, dated June 29 and addressed to episcopal conferences around the world.

"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.

John Limb, publisher of OCP, a nonprofit liturgical music publisher in Portland, Ore., said the most popular hymn in the OCP repertoire that would be affected was Dan Schutte's "You Are Near," which begins, "Yahweh, I know you are near."

He estimated that only "a handful" of other OCP hymns use the word "Yahweh," although a search of the OCP Web site turned up about a dozen examples of songs that included the word.

Limb said the company would be contacting composers to "ask them to try to come up with alternate language" for their hymns. But he said hymnals for 2009 had already been printed, so the affected hymns would not include the new wording for at least another year.

Even when the new hymnals are out, "it may take time for people to get used to singing something different," he added in an Aug. 11 telephone interview with Catholic News Service.

At Chicago-based GIA Publications, another major Catholic publisher of hymnals, no major revisions will be necessary, because of the company's longtime editorial policy against use of the word "Yahweh."

Kelly Dobbs-Mickus, senior editor at GIA Publications, told CNS Aug. 11 that the policy, which dates to 1986, was based not on Vatican directives but on sensitivity to concerns among observant Jews about pronouncing the name of God. As an example, she cited Heinrich Schutz's "Thanks Be to Yahweh," which appears in a GIA hymnal under the title "Thanks Be to God."

Article from: http://thericatholic.com/stories/1446.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
synergy777: and yet jesus/yeshua/yashuah was called after yah, eg yah is salvation = yashuah/jesus


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Related:
Tetragrammaton
Tetragrammaton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yahweh
Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Names of God in Judaism
Names of God in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YWHW, Lord, Almighty, Shaddai - finding the best name for God
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2008/09/01/ywhw-adonai-lord-almighty-shaddai-looking-for-the-name-of-god.aspx

Vatican takes cue from Jews on God's name
http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/110017.html

tracker
14-09-2008, 06:36 PM
personally i think jesus was well against the church and the religions of that day .

so lets see why .

what do prays do to our minds ?

let me show you the universal mirror and what it shows you are really practicing upon your self when you pray .


the pray------------------------------------------the mirror.

our faher who is in heaven --------------------i am a slave in a shit hole
halowd be your name--------------------------i am nothing
thy kingdom come-----------------------------my kingdon is irelevent
thy will be done-------------------------------i ask no questions
on earth as it is in heaven---------------------in bodey and mind
give us today our bread-----------------------give me not quite enough to survuve on and die slowly
and forgive my trespasing----------------------i do wrong all the time
as we forgive those who do against us----------hurt me big time
lead me not into temptation--------------------make me want nothing for -------------------------------------------------me
and deliver me from evil-------------------------lead me away from knowledge
for yours is the kingdom------------------------we hand over our earth
the power and the glory------------------------no questions asked
for ever and ever-------------------------------for all time
amen------------------------------------------so be it .





reap the truth about what prays actually say upon and within themself .

then you wonder why meek and needy people have a god that loves the meek and needy and why they always stay meek and needy .

synergy777
14-09-2008, 07:09 PM
yashuah said pray/talk to god. these prayers were not from yashuah, they are psalms etc from other books of the bible. some were written in king davids time, solomon's reign and some are based on egyptain prayers.

the clergy get rich with mind control religion. corrupted doctrines that prey on your guilt, fears etc. thats the way they design and write these texts, its similar to NLP, and political propaganda. the priests say you, we are born in sin eg sex is bad, adam and eve did bad in the garden of eden and thus we as humans are cursed, eg the fall of man.

all these are lies, but if one does not read the texts and the texts that these are based on, then we simply believe the clergy. look at the jewish haggadah, the forerunner to genesis, it tells us of the fall, the reptillians/dragons/satan, but they hide this from us.

look at the book of enoch, the nephilm in genesis, they don't talk about this stuff do they. the clergy get corrupted parts like deutronomy and use this to manipulate to us, to put the "fear" of god into us, they never tell us the love of god, the intelligence of god, the compassion of god. if we want these things from god, then we must pay and pray the clergy, then everything is fine.

look at the actions of the clergy eg spanish inqusition, the sponsoring of colonisation eg columbus to the amerrica's, imperialism eg empires from islamic mughals, romans, and the modern british empire, the justifcation of crusades, holy wars, holocausts, genocide, slavery etc. remember the curse of ham/black skin, which the clergy used to justfy slavery.

however there are good clergy, but these are outnumbered by the majority. there are good clergy from all religions who do wonderful work but there work does not get exposure.

amethyst
14-09-2008, 07:24 PM
The thing is, Jesus wasn't occultic (ok this is now TW's cue to chime in about the occult :rolleyes:)

The Catholic Church was and is occultic. They took and perverted the simple message Jesus preached. Gave it all these symbols and such.

Not something Jesus ever wanted to happen. His message was a simple and pure one. Not complicated.

Those that say that Jesus promoted hate don't KNOW Him or His message.

Jesus wasn't a catholic (neither was Peter- the Catholic church lied about that too) Jesus wasn't about ANY denomination but was just about the message, which was HIMSELF.

If people could read the bible for themselves that way, then they could interpret it the way Jesus intended it to be interpreted.

And stop listening to all the gurus that act like they are experts. They aren't. People need to just read what Jesus said Himself in the New Testament and decide for themselves.

Don't take anyone else's opinion.

synergy777
14-09-2008, 07:46 PM
cool, but i think, yashuah was a jew, as that was the religion of his mum and dad, his ethnicity etc. i think he came to correct the corruption in judaism, but the judaic clergy hated him as he exposed their corruption, traders in the temple, the blood sacrifces, the caste/class system, pharisees, den of vipers, the synagogue of satan etc.

thus they hated him and his message. the romans were into esoetric religions eg pantheon of gods/greek-vedic, mithrasism from persia etc. thus neither party, the jewish priesthood or the romans wanted yashuah preaching the truth about one god, equality for all and all of us having a personal connection eg the spirit.

all this would have smashed the powerbase of the clergy and romans. so they colluded and murdered him. then they took his message, corrupted it with doctrines that suited their religous/economic/political aims, and created christianity eg council of nicea, solar symbolism, winter solistice/saturnalia/christmas etc

thus the jewish priesthood till this day, especially those that follow the talmud, like the priesthood did in yashuah's day, hated yashuah. however there are torah jews, that recognise yashuah.

all this division of religion is stupid, as if there is truth, then there is truth. it might explain it in different languages, but the fact is truth is one, god is one.

just as there is one sun, one moon, one planet etc we might call them different names, devise different stories, but the fact is there is only one.

also when i mean jew, lets remember jew as in judah, the biblical name of palestine/israel. thus someone from judea, is a jew, as j in greek/english is y in hebrew/aramhic. thus yehudi, yudea, eg is judea/judah. and i believe he was a native of judea, thus middle eastern/asiatic not a cesare borgia clone.

amethyst
14-09-2008, 08:09 PM
cool, but i think, yashuah was a jew, as that was the religion of his mum and dad, his ethnicity etc. i think he came to correct the corruption in judaism, but the judaic clergy hated him as he exposed their corruption, traders in the temple, the blood sacrifces, the caste/class system, pharisees, den of vipers, the synagogue of satan etc.

thus they hated him and his message. the romans were into esoetric religions eg pantheon of gods/greek-vedic, mithrasism from persia etc. thus neither party, the jewish priesthood or the romans wanted yashuah preaching the truth about one god, equality for all and all of us having a personal connection eg the spirit.

Yep you're right. Jesus was in a class by Himself. He didn't cater to the romans, or the jewish priesthood or the judaic clery.

Someone "gets it":D

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. That's why He could rightfully claim to be a "jew'.

Doesn't mean he supported what the judaic clergy of His day were doing. He was against that

bendoon
15-09-2008, 02:09 AM
cool, but i think, yashuah was a jew, as that was the religion of his mum and dad,.

No he wasn't a Jew, not by what you think of as a Jew today, he was born into the tribe of Judah. The "Jews" at that time were a mixture of Judah, Benjamin and Edomites (Non Israelites). Jesus had to be born into the tribe of Judah to fulfill prophecy so that they would know he was the true Messiah.

, corrupted it with doctrines that suited their religous/economic/political aims, and created christianity eg council of nicea,

Christianity was spread all over Europe long before the Council of Nicea, but you are right in saying the Romans corrupted the message. The true message was kept alive in Ireland and Scotland out of reach of the Romans. All the idols, cross, Churches, Cathedrals are part of the Pagan Counterfeit Roman Church. In fact there is no basis for a stone building being called a Church in the Bible, nor a Preist or Vicar or a Pope. True Christianity is just a way of life with no pomp and ceremony and non of the man made doctrines, just do good to others and oppose evil.

amethyst
15-09-2008, 03:31 AM
No he wasn't a Jew, not by what you think of as a Jew today, he was born into the tribe of Judah. The "Jews" at that time were a mixture of Judah, Benjamin and Edomites (Non Israelites). Jesus had to be born into the tribe of Judah to fulfill prophecy so that they would know he was the true Messiah.



Christianity was spread all over Europe long before the Council of Nicea, but you are right in saying the Romans corrupted the message. The true message was kept alive in Ireland and Scotland out of reach of the Romans. All the idols, cross, Churches, Cathedrals are part of the Pagan Counterfeit Roman Church. In fact there is no basis for a stone building being called a Church in the Bible, nor a Preist or Vicar or a Pope. True Christianity is just a way of life with no pomp and ceremony and non of the man made doctrines, just do good to others and oppose evil.

True Christianity is just a way of life with no pomp and ceremony and non of the man made doctrines, just do good to others and oppose evil

Yes, I agree. And we are going to need Him now more than ever...especially with what is coming.

phildee3
15-09-2008, 11:36 AM
The thing is, Jesus wasn't occultic



His method of teaching, through parables, is classic occultism (for those who have "ears to hear")!



Jesus wasn't a catholic



Yes he was/is.
His salvation is for everybody.

It's the Roman "church" that is not catholic!



Jesus wasn't about ANY denomination but was just about the message, which was HIMSELF.



Exactly.

bendoon
16-09-2008, 12:59 AM
His method of teaching, through parables, is classic occultism (for those who have "ears to hear")!

.

Parables are hardly occultism, its just a simple way of getting a message accros by using an illustrative example.

Like the story of the boy who cried wolf, nothing occult about it.

phildee3
16-09-2008, 03:49 PM
Parables are hardly occultism, its just a simple way of getting a message accros by using an illustrative example.



More like hidden metaphors, I'd say.

Had 'em all baffled until they became sufficiently advanced initiates to understand,

or

until the "church" interpreted them for us, -
inadequately at best, completely wrongly at worst.



Like the story of the boy who cried wolf,



Don't see the connection between this story and Jesus' parables.

size_of_light
16-09-2008, 04:14 PM
I haven't read this thread - it just looks too long and crazy.

Was Jesus real?

I think he sounds like a pretty cool guy, and I'm not a Christian, I'm not interested in the Bible (never will be, respect your devotion to it, or lack thereof - thanks anyway), but The Last Temptation of Christ is a fucking kick-ass movie and one of my favourites, and I've always had a soft spot for the bearded one, particularly when I think of him as some sorta chilled out Bob Marley-esque, mellow, surfer dude who thinks his followers are 'freaking out' and 'laying their trips' on him.

When Jesus died on the cross and said "I am the way", could this have been symbolism, in saying "my example is the way", or, in other words "take all pain and suffering unto yourself, and give all joy and happiness to others"?

P.S. As I said, I haven't read any of this thread, but I bet there are sad, angry dickheads in here taunting Christians just because they get malevolent pleasure from it.

See ya :)

amethyst
16-09-2008, 06:47 PM
I think he sounds like a pretty cool guy, and I'm not a Christian, I'm not interested in the Bible (never will be, respect your devotion to it, or lack thereof - thanks anyway), but The Last Temptation of Christ is a fucking kick-ass movie and one of my favourites, and I've always had a soft spot for the bearded one, particularly when I think of him as some sorta chilled out Bob Marley-esque, mellow, surfer dude who thinks his followers are 'freaking out' and 'laying their trips' on him.

Ya mean sort of "Willem Defoe-ish"? ;) ......yeah, he did have that surfer-dude vibe going in that movie.

His movie "dialogue' could have even been sprinkled with a few "man" and "far out" and "groovy' words.......hehe

size_of_light
16-09-2008, 06:56 PM
Ya mean sort of "Willem Defoe-ish"? ;) ......yeah, he did have that surfer-dude vibe going in that movie.

His movie "dialogue' could have even been sprinkled with a few "man" and "far out" and "groovy' words.......hehe

To me, that last section of the film, where he comes down from the cross, marries, has children and tries to deny who he is, only for Harvey Keitel to wake him up to his true nature when he's an old dying man in bed, forcing him to crawl out through the holocaust to get up on the cross and be crucified to save everyone, is the essence of Christ, if that means anything.

Gives me goosebumps, every time.

I find it puzzling that some Christian lobby groups were protesting the film for the very things that illustrate most poignantly what the message of Christ is, if it means anything at all.

phildee3
16-09-2008, 07:18 PM
When Jesus died on the cross and said "I am the way", could this have been symbolism, in saying "my example is the way", or, in other words "take all pain and suffering unto yourself, and give all joy and happiness to others"?



The meaning of "I am the Way" is occulted.
It's a type of Zen koan to be contemplated until the goal (its meaning) is reached within you.

size_of_light
16-09-2008, 07:25 PM
The meaning of "I am the Way" is occulted.
It's a type of Zen koan to be contemplated until the goal (its meaning) is reached within you.

I don't understand what you're saying.

planetsadhana
16-09-2008, 08:10 PM
last temptation was a great film, Ive got it on dvd..so many good bits ,

mary magdalane was pretty hot to:p

amethyst
16-09-2008, 08:33 PM
To me, that last section of the film, where he comes down from the cross, marries, has children and tries to deny who he is, only for Harvey Keitel to wake him up to his true nature when he's an old dying man in bed, forcing him to crawl out through the holocaust to get up on the cross and be crucified to save everyone, is the essence of Christ, if that means anything.

Gives me goosebumps, every time.

I find it puzzling that some Christian lobby groups were protesting the film for the very things that illustrate most poignantly what the message of Christ is, if it means anything at all.

A little misguided I think, those lobby groups..

To me, that last section of the film, where he comes down from the cross, marries, has children and tries to deny who he is,

Well, with that part, the director took a little "artistic license" ;) cuz in the real life story, Jesus never got married or had children.

amethyst
16-09-2008, 08:54 PM
His method of teaching, through parables, is classic occultism (for those who have "ears to hear")!



Yes he was/is.
His salvation is for everybody.

It's the Roman "church" that is not catholic!



Exactly.

ok, maybe we are just discussing a case of semantic differences with the words ;)

planetsadhana
16-09-2008, 08:56 PM
in the last temptation , jesus does not get married in real terms ,he has a kind of "trip" where he sees how life would have been as a normal man whilst on the cross,

its only when judas comes in to his "trip" a bit pissed off because he has had to betray him for nothing that jesus climbs back(metaphorically)on to to the cross to save mankind...hence the last "temptation"

This is the closest version to jesus that makes sense to me, in body a normal man with the same deires and weaknesses,and also a freedom fighter , healer teacher and prophet but in essence the spirit of god who new he had a prohecy to complete

amethyst
16-09-2008, 09:01 PM
[QUOTE=planetsadhana;506867]in the last temptation , jesus does not get married in real terms ,he has a kind of "trip" where he sees how life would have been as a normal man whilst on the cross,

its only when judas comes in to his "trip" a bit pissed off because he has had to betray him for nothing that jesus climbs back(metaphorically)on to to the cross to save mankind...hence the last "temptation"

Oh thanks for clarifying...I only saw bits and pieces of the movie....


This is the closest version to jesus that makes sense to me, in body a normal man with the same deires and weaknesses,and also a freedom fighter , healer teacher and prophet but in essence the spirit of god who new he had a prohecy to complete

well the Bible says He was tempted at all points yet did not sin.....

planetsadhana
16-09-2008, 09:22 PM
in many peoples eyes he did sin , he associated with prostitutes,publicans , tax collectors, roman soldiers

but does "sin" not mean to forget and it that sense he never sinned

amethyst
16-09-2008, 09:34 PM
in many peoples eyes he did sin , he associated with prostitutes,publicans , tax collectors, roman soldiers

He was cool that way.....never looked down on people, but accepted people from all walks of life.

bendoon
17-09-2008, 12:13 AM
More like hidden metaphors, I'd say.

Had 'em all baffled until they became sufficiently advanced initiates to understand,

.
Initiates my anus, anyone can understand them if they want, you don't have to surround everything with great mystery making out you have some special understanding and the masses aren't enlightened enough to understand.

Originally Posted by size_of_light
P.S. As I said, I haven't read any of this thread, but I bet there are sad, angry dickheads in here taunting Christians just because they get malevolent pleasure from it.



10/10 for that one :D

eternal_spirit
17-09-2008, 12:19 AM
Initiates my anus, anyone can understand them if they want, you don't have to surround everything with great mystery making out you have some special understanding and the masses aren't enlightened enough to understand.

Oh wait isn't that what the so called Illuminated ones do! Guess they see us as sheeple (goyim)
And all that Gnostic preacher spiel. What puzzles me is the Gnostics claim they know but ask them to explain in plain English no chance. Does that mean they really don't know what they claim they know..

nimlyn
17-09-2008, 12:49 AM
He was cool that way.....never looked down on people, but accepted people from all walks of life.

I have to disagree here…Although Jesus is portrayed as an example of perfection / goodness, I also see flaws in Jesus’ character…That he didn’t always practice what he preached, for instance what happened to the turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:38) moral when Jesus came across stall holders (John 2:15) in the sacred Temple...:confused:

Yup! We are all hypocrites…:)

bendoon
17-09-2008, 12:53 AM
I have to disagree here…Although Jesus is portrayed as an example of perfection / goodness, I also see flaws in Jesus’ character…That he didn’t always practice what he preached, for instance what happened to the turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:38) moral when Jesus came across stall holders (John 2:15) in the sacred Temple...:confused:

Yup! We are all hypocrites…:)

Turn the other cheek: when someone is trying to aggravate you, don't let them

He turned over the tables of the money changers in the Temple

No contradiction here at all.

nimlyn
17-09-2008, 12:56 AM
Turn the other cheek: when someone is trying to aggravate you, don't let them

He turned over the tables of the money changers in the Temple

No contradiction here at all.

I don’t perceive any difference…Maybe you can explain in a different way?

bendoon
17-09-2008, 12:58 AM
I don’t perceive any difference…Maybe you can explain in a different way?

How is that not practicing what you preach ?

nimlyn
17-09-2008, 01:16 AM
How is that not practicing what you preach ?

He didn’t turn the other cheek…In other words! He displayed anger…:rolleyes:

bendoon
17-09-2008, 01:21 AM
He didn’t turn the other cheek…In other words! He displayed anger…:rolleyes:

Nothing to do with displaying anger, no contradiction at all. He just turned the tables over because they were defiling the temple.

nimlyn
17-09-2008, 01:27 AM
Nothing to do with displaying anger, no contradiction at all. He just turned the tables over because they were defiling the temple.

According to scriptures he made a scourge of cords and drove them out of the Temple…definitely appears to be a temper tantrum…:eek:

snoopsnuffleopagus
17-09-2008, 08:51 AM
According to scriptures he made a scourge of cords and drove them out of the Temple…definitely appears to be a temper tantrum…:eek:

Hi Nimlyn:

To a bystander it may 'appear' so, but to those who are cognizant of YHWHs plan, they understand Yahshua was doing His Fathers bidding.

Check the Book of Yahchanan(john) around Chapter 5; Verse 30: I can of my own self do nothing; as I hear; I judge. And my judgement is just; because I do not seek My own will, but the will of the Father Who sent me.

19: Truly,truly; I say to you: The Son can do nothing of His own accord; but He is only able to do what He sees His Father doing. For whatever the Father does, is what the Son does in the same way.

Ultimately, your contention is with Father Yahweh. Yahweh was, IMO, probably annoyed the capitalists were in an area of the Temple precincts were they should not have been.

phildee3
17-09-2008, 10:27 AM
I don't understand what you're saying.



The knowledge of G_d is through the heart, not the mind.



[I] respect your devotion to it, or lack thereof



You are not far from the kingdom.

phildee3
17-09-2008, 10:35 AM
...anyone can understand them if they want, you don't have to surround everything with great mystery making out you have some special understanding and the masses aren't enlightened enough to understand.



The knowledge of G_d is for everyone, yes,
but it's not going to fall in your lap!

One must seek in order to find.

G_d's nature is a mystery to us and disciple-ine is necessary to penetrate it.

phildee3
17-09-2008, 10:43 AM
...in the real life story, Jesus never got married or had children.



This is debatable.
There are many reputable scholars who say otherwise.

Jesus was a man.
Christ is androgynous.
Therefore Jesus would need a female counterpart to be fully Christ.

The patriarchal Romans edited this out of their bible,
but you'll find it in the unedited Nag Hammadi gospels.

synergy777
17-09-2008, 04:10 PM
i think people need to learn to discern,
between the jesus the real person
and jesus the organised religion version.

they are not the same, one was real, the other was a fusion of the real and esoteric symbolism/metaphors etc.

when people learn to accept this fact, they seperate the wheat from the chaff.

thus to say jesus never existed or say that everything written about jesus is true is inaccurate and totally naieve.

jesus/yashuah was born, lived, suffered, desired and achieved gnosis/enlightenment. he saw everyone as equal, helped the oppressed, the outcastes etc. he was executed/crucified due to collusion between the corrupt jewish priesthood and the roman occupiers.

he spoke a message similar to all great teachers before him, eg buddha, krishna etc. as the truth is the truth, there is only one truth, thus all those who reach enlightenment speak the same.

thus the elite had to take control of his message, image and story in order to neutralise the threat of his message.

*look at yashuah/jesus actions, he did not believe in the class/caste system, he helped and socialised with poor people, lepers, prostitutes etc.

*he believed in a personal relationship with the creator/source, hence he used the term father, hence he called himself the son of god, as we all are the children of god, thus we are all daughters/sons of god.

*he said the kingdom of heaven was within, eg your spirit, you are the spirit, the spirit is the creation of the creator/source.

*he detested the corruption of religous doctrine, priesthood, rituals, eg the blood sacrifices of animals, the traders in the temple.

learn to discern, do not follow blindly, look at the literal and symbolic interpretations of his life/message. why do you think he spoke in parables.

thats why to be frank, those in the two camps of 1, he never existed, or 2, everything the church says about him is true, are merley opposite ends of the spectrum, they are controlled opposition, opposames.

phildee3
17-09-2008, 08:23 PM
i think people need to learn to discern,
between the jesus the real person
and jesus the organised religion version.



This is extremely difficult
since what was originally written about him was quite late and could well have been tainted with legend, and -
what survives of those original texts, as the canonical gospels, have been messed with so much by the Romans.

I think we need to discern between Jesus (who was) and
Christ (who was -before Jesus was born, -
is
and is to come).

snoopsnuffleopagus
17-09-2008, 08:49 PM
This is extremely difficult
since what was originally written about him was quite late and could well have been tainted with legend, and -
what survives of those original texts, as the canonical gospels, have been messed with so much by the Romans.

I think we need to discern between Jesus (who was) and
Christ (who was -before Jesus was born, -
is
and is to come).


Your Gnosticist beliefs are Pure Hellenism-Logos- and Babylonish.

The Origins of the Gospels are well established, and known to be scribed in Hebrew.

Since Yahshua Taught the Laws and Prophecies of Father Yahweh as The Way; Narrow is the Gate, and straight is the Path.

Yahshua instructed us to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh, the Laws & The Prophecies.

By whose authority do you teach? You do not come in the Names of Father Yahweh or Yahshua, so who sent you?


Rome does not teach of Father Yahweh or Yahshua, neither do you, you share romes positions on the Laws, Names and Doctrines. Pre-existant Messiah. Laws done away with, the words are not understood by the profane.:rolleyes:

I find your position very contradictory.

Origins of the Gospel,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382725&postcount=3


The Hebrew Commentaries on the New Testament found amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls are validating and amplifying the Gospels.

jewish origins of gnosticism

http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/gnos/jgnos.htm

element
17-09-2008, 08:56 PM
By whose authority do you teach? You do not come in the Names of Father Yahweh or Yahshua, so who sent you?


Rofl. Just about everything is wrong when it's outside your box, people have only valid points when they agree with you, fundamental Magpie. :rolleyes:

phildee3
17-09-2008, 09:09 PM
By whose authority do you teach? You do not come in the Names of Father Yahweh or Yahshua, so who sent you?



I was not sent.

I am.

bendoon
18-09-2008, 12:35 AM
The knowledge of G_d is for everyone, yes,
but it's not going to fall in your lap!

One must seek in order to find.

G_d's nature is a mystery to us and disciple-ine is necessary to penetrate it.

Yes, you conveyed that in a less haughty manner, thanks.

phildee3
18-09-2008, 08:14 AM
you conveyed that in a less haughty manner



Haughtiness is in the eye of the beholder, methinks. ;)

snoopsnuffleopagus
18-09-2008, 09:15 AM
Rofl. Just about everything is wrong when it's outside your box, people have only valid points when they agree with you, fundamental Magpie. :rolleyes:


I have Highlighted your Acute Failure of Discernment. It is not my box and it is not a matter if they agree with me. It is the Book of Yahweh and the Scriptures contained within that THEY do not agree with. They are attempting to hammer Pagan and Heathen Doctrines into the Book of Yahweh. They are unable to discern between Atonal, Discordant Moderne Jazz and a lovely Classical Composition. T-Bone Steaks and soybean hotdogs.

I have set aside my personal Biases and Preferences, they have not. It is not to be a matter of personal interpretation.

The POINT of the Book is to conform to the Persona of Yahshua Messiah, which is conforming to the Persona of Father Yahweh.

And if your discernment were Acute, you may have discerned they tend to promote the Queen of Heaven.

It really is simple.

But good news for you element, a big Mother Godess Fest is kicking off. Tarot! Kabbala!! Astrology-A-Rama!! Coming soon!! lol

y'all will have Bliss; temporarily.

snoopsnuffleopagus
18-09-2008, 09:40 AM
I was not sent.

I am.

That's nice :)

Yahchanan-(YHWH is Merciful) 5:41-47

Yahshua came in Yahwehs Name

41: I do not receive honour from men.

42: But I know you, that you do not have the love of Yahweh in you.

43: I have come in My Fathers Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow in order to obey

44: How can you believe, when you accept honour from one another, but do not seek the honour that comes from Yahweh only?

45: Do not think I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you-Mosheh, in whom you trust!

46:For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me.

47: But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words? How will you believe the Laws and the Prophets?

phildee3
18-09-2008, 11:38 AM
Yahshua came in Yahwehs Name



That's ancient history,
and history is written (and altered) by folks with an agenda.

Christos is
and is acessible now.

element
18-09-2008, 11:58 AM
It really is simple.

But good news for you element, a big Mother Godess Fest is kicking off. Tarot! Kabbala!! Astrology-A-Rama!! Coming soon!! lol

y'all will have Bliss; temporarily.

Hahah fool. You're still angry about astrology aren't you, because it just proves where the bible is coming from: Egypt. :D

Don't sprout terms like temporary bliss, you know shit man.
Man written books can be inspirational and teach good things, but it can't bring the highest truths.

snoopsnuffleopagus
18-09-2008, 05:04 PM
phil, element:

perhaps the two of you should begin Threads and share with us The Truth.

Why the reticence to share your insights with us, your fellow forum members?

and element, I am not angry at all, rather tears of laughter. Thank You. :)

and phil; since your little 'birthday homage' to 'mary; queen of heaven' the other day, your agenda became crystal clear. Thank You. :)

amethyst
18-09-2008, 05:18 PM
The knowledge of G_d is through the heart, not the mind.

I very much agree.


Keep your heart with all diligence,
For out of it spring the issues of life.

-Proverbs: 4:23

When you understand His heart, you understand His mind.

phildee3
18-09-2008, 06:19 PM
Why the reticence to share your insights with us?

since your little 'birthday homage' to 'mary; queen of heaven' the other day, your agenda became crystal clear. Thank You. :)



The way that you have posted this, cross-thread and mis-quoted, shows that my agenda is not clear to you at all.

I have no reticence at sharing my insights, I do it on a regular basis,
it is you who is reticent with receiving them.

synergy777
16-10-2008, 05:59 PM
INNER I : VEDIC FORUM

PLEASE VIEW THIS AWESOME FORUM

http://inneri.forum5.com/

THIS IS A FORUM MY FRIEND ABHIE AND I USE, I AM A MODERATOR. I AM LOOKING TO TAKE A CONTROLLING STAKE IN IT.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO USE IT AND JOIN UP.

SEE YOU SOON.

major seven
16-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Hi Synergy
Haven't had time to read this whole thread so was just wondering what your view is on the real Jesus as a real man being raised from being actually dead.
1. Did it really happen?
2. Smoke and mirrors to mess with Rome, Pharisees et al

Thanks
Frank

synergy777
16-11-2008, 03:43 PM
http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW12-04/search.htm

The Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Volume 2, pages 330-331, gives us more information about this widely accepted, yet incorrect name.


OT Ie-sous is the Gk. form of the OT Jewish name Ye-šûa`, arrived at by transcribing the Heb. and adding an -s to the nom. to facilitate declension. Ye-šûa` (Joshua) seems to have come into general use about the time of the Babylonian exile in place of the older Yehôsûa . The LXX rendered both the ancient and more recent forms of the name uniformly as Ie-sous... It is the oldest name containing the devine name Yahweh, and means "Yahweh is help" or "Yahweh is salvation" (cf. the vb. yasa`, help, save). Joshua also appears in one post-exilic passage in the Heb. ot (Neh. 8:17) as Ye-šûa` the son of Nun, and not as in the older texts Yehôšoa.

The Encyclopedia Dictionary of the Bible, by Louis Hartman, pages 1141-1142, shows us this:

Jesus. This name in english is a transcription of the Latin Jesus, which represents the Greek form, of the Hebrew name, yeš a` (à Jesua), itself a late form, by vowel dissimilation, of yoš a` (Jesua), a contracted form of yehos a` , "Yahweh is salvation."

The form Yeshua or Jesus was a deliberate change from the original Name Yahshua, as the same pages of this same source shows:

Jesua. In the last few centuries before Christ the personal name, yos ­a was pronounced and written as yeš a.

The Harper Bible Dictionary, by Paul Achtemeier, page 474, shows us that the form Yeshua or Jesus is not even a Hebrew name.

Jeshua (jesh´oo-uh; Heb., "Yahweh is salvation"), the Aramaic form of Joshua.

Rather than this name being correctly written and spoken YAHSHUA (containing Yahweh's powerful Name), its new form was Yeshua, meaning He will save. Not only was Yahweh's Name removed from the correct Name, Yahshua written in its new form, Yeshua, but Yahweh's power was removed from it as well.

This new name (Yeshua) was being used as the replacement for Yahshua's true Name, by the time the Septuagint (LXX) was beginning to be translated. The Greek word written in this version to replace the name that had replaced Yahshua's Name, is - a direct transliteration of the Hebrew word Yeshua.

The next version of the Bible, after the Greek Septuagint (LXX), was the Vulgate—attributed to Jerome. In the year 383 C.E., Jerome began to work on this Latin Version. He undertook the revision of the Old Testament directly from the Septuagint Version.

In the Septuagint, the Name of Yahweh was replaced with the Greek word, Kyrios - Lord. In the Latin Vulgate, Jerome directly translated the Greek word Kyrios - Lord to the Latin word for Lord - Dominus. In the Latin Vulgate, Jerome transliterated the Greek word to the Latin, Iesus.

Unger's Bible Dictionary, page 1113, tells us of the earliest, early Versions of the translated English Bibles.

TRANSLATIONS, ENGLISH BIBLE.
1. Early Versions. There were portions of the Bible, and possibly the entire work, rendered into the English vernacular very early in the history of the language. These, however, were all made from the Latin, and not from the original Hebrew.

The early Versions directly translated the Latin word Dominus to the modern English word we all know today as Lord, which is still causing the world to forget Yahweh's Name for Baal (Yeremyah 23:27).

In early versions, the Greek word Ie-sous was shortened to the Latin Iesus. It was not until the year 1064 C.E. that the popular name Jesus, was placed in the Scriptures. There was not even a "J" sound in the English language until that century. We must remember also, the fact that there is no "J" in the Hebrew language. Even the modern English "J" was not in use until the sixteenth century of our own Common Era.

Collier's Encyclopedia, copyright 1957, page 289, gives us these facts:

"J" the tenth letter of the English alphabet, has no ancient ancestor, unless, as a recent variant of "I" and "i" ...Not until the sixteenth century was any systematic effort made to differentiate vocalic "i" with the sign "i" and consonantal "i" with the sign "J" "J" the capital, was introduced at that time...

The name Jesus is not even a transliteration. It is a corruption of a transliteration of a Hebrew word which had the mighty and powerful Name of Yahweh removed from its original meaning.

The Theological Dictionary Of The New Testament, Kittel and Bromiley, Volume 3, page 284, tells us that the name Jesus (Iesous) is a Greek form of the Hebrew proper Name Yahshua (). Keep in mind, however, that this name Jesus carries none of the meaning of the original Hebrew Name Yahshua, which means Yahweh is salvation.

synergy777
16-11-2008, 03:48 PM
http://www.users.qwest.net/~zadok1/son.htm

THE NAME OF THE SON
THE SAVIOR, THE MESSIAH

The name of the Messiah, in Hebrew-his own language, is , which means "Yahweh is salvation" or "Yahweh saves". The name "Jesus" is the result of a series of changes from Hebrew to a Latinized Greek. The word is not a transliteration, and it cannot be translated, since it is a hybrid word.
Hebrew names can be translated; they make a statement, such as, Yahshua = "Yahweh is salvation". The word "Jesus" does not deliver the message that Yahweh is salvation. [and, of course, "Jesus" was never actually his name.]

The pronunciation of varies among different groups. Since the Hebrew spelling is exactly the same as "Joshua", the son of Nun, some people pronounce it as "Joshua" with a "Y" sound - Yahshua; the "Y" would be the correct sound since the "J" sound does not exist in Hebrew. In fact, because of the same spelling, the King James Version mistranslated Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 using "Jesus" instead of "Joshua" (other versions like the NIV have corrected this). In reality, the name of Joshua and the name of the Messiah were the same name.

Stong's Concordance states that #2424 - Iesous is of Hebrew origin #3091 - yeh-ho shoo'-ah; and that this is also the name of Joshua, the Jewish leader. Some people state that the ancient pronunciation of this name is Ya-HO-shu-wa, and that by the time of the Messiah, the "HO" had been dropped; I have seen no written study of this. Strong's has obvious errors, "Yeh" instead of "Yah." His vowel points are of more modern Hebrew usage; he uses a sheva instead of a pattach and thus gets "Yeh." And, he uses "Jehovah" instead of "Yahweh."

We can understand, now, that "Jesus" would not have been the name that Miriam (Mary) was told to give her son. The "J" sound didn't exist then, and doesn't exist now, in the Hebrew or Aramaic languages. In fact, it didn't exist in English until 500 years ago.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Yahshua (means: Yahweh is salvation): for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Master by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, Elohim with us [means: a mighty one is with us].

"Yeshua" is the name used by today's Jews and messianic believers when referring to the Messiah. The "Ye" was a replacement of "Yah" to avoid pronouncing the Father's name even in its shortened, poetic form [a traditional Jewish restriction that began at the time of the Babylonian exile]. Using Yeshua does not honor Yahweh as intended in Matthew 1:21 above. By pronouncing Yahshua, we state that Yahweh is salvation.

http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW02-06/plan.htm

snoopsnuffleopagus
16-11-2008, 05:04 PM
Most Cordial Salutations:

Great Post! We are definitely living in Blessed Times where the extant of the Fraud is now being made clear. Time to put away our childishness and grow up.

Did you see the Battle recently in your vatican thread. They Hate the Names. They don't want people to know them. They throw every stumbling block they can think of to prevent people coming to this knowledge.

Thanx for bringing this to our collective attention.

Cheers! Snoops

kasalt
17-11-2008, 07:44 AM
Synergy,

With all due respect, I think it might help if you would make a better attempt at fact-checking your sources before you copy-and-paste to the forum. Here are a couple of examples to show you what I mean.

The next version of the Bible, after the Greek Septuagint (LXX), was the Vulgate—attributed to Jerome. In the year 383 C.E., Jerome began to work on this Latin Version. He undertook the revision of the Old Testament directly from the Septuagint Version.
In the Septuagint, the Name of Yahweh was replaced with the Greek word, Kyrios - Lord. In the Latin Vulgate, Jerome directly translated the Greek word Kyrios - Lord to the Latin word for Lord - Dominus.
Compare the statements in bold font above, with this information from Tetragrammaton in the New Testament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
The Septuagint was the preferred Greek translation of the Jewish Bible among Christians (and Jews up until the Council of Jamnia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and the Masoretic Text - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia recinsion) at the time of the writing of the New Testament, and continued to be until the Protestant Reformation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

When Saint Jerome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, a Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Doctor of the Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia made his translation of the Old Testament into Latin, he switched from the Septuagint of the Early Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to the Masoretic Text - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.[1] (http://www.geocities.com/r_grant_jones/Rick/Septuagint/spfathers.htm) He translated from a Masoretic Old Testament and brought YHWH into texts officially adapted by the Western Church.

[Jerome's] Vulgate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is usually credited to have been the first translation of the Old Testament into Latin directly from the Hebrew Tanakh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, rather than the Greek Septuagint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The "House of Yahweh" religious cult says one thing, Wikipedia says another. Of course, no one is perfect, and everyone is wrong sooner or later, including Wikipedia. But I ask you, which source do you think is right in this case?

The Theological Dictionary Of The New Testament, Kittel and Bromiley, Volume 3, page 284, tells us that the name Jesus (Iesous) is a Greek form of the Hebrew proper Name Yahshua (). Keep in mind, however, that this name Jesus carries none of the meaning of the original Hebrew Name Yahshua, which means Yahweh is salvation.

The only way I can absolutely confirm this claim for myself is to go to a large library that has a copy of Kittel's Theological Dictionary. As I am unable to do so at the moment, I decided to run a Google search of the terms "Kittel Yahshua" to see what I could come up with on the net. In doing so, I found an article written by a Dr. Daniel Botkin (http://www.gatesofeden.org/botkin.html), a Messianic Jew who is the pastor of a church. He has the following thing to say about the claims found in your copy and paste quote above:
This statement makes it sound like Kittel uses the forms Yahoshua and Yahshua. I went to the library and looked at this page in Kittel’s. The words Yahoshua and Yahshua do not appear even one time on this page. This can be verified by going to a library and looking up this page. (It’s in Volume III.) If your library does not have Kittel’s, I can send a photocopy of this page to any skeptics.

This same Sacred Name organization which misrepresents Kittel’s also misrepresented a Jewish author. In a magazine article written by this organization’s main leader, a lengthy segment is quoted from a book published by KTAV, a Jewish publishing house. When copying this quotation for his magazine article, this Sacred Name author freely used Yahshua, making it appear that the Jewish author used that transliteration in his book. I got the book from the library, though, and discovered that "Yahshua" did not appear in the book. I wrote to this Sacred Name leader asking for an explanation. I told him that unless he had some other explanation, I could conclude one of three things: either he deliberately misrepresented the facts, or he did it accidentally, or the book I got from the library was a different version from his, in which case I would owe him an apology. My letter was sent September 1, 1997, and I am still waiting for a reply.
Source: http://www.yashanet.com/library/Yeshua_or_Yahshua.htm

Dr. Botkin doesn't give the name of the "Sacred Name leader" he is referring to in that quote, but it is highly likely from the context that he is referring to the HOY cult leader.

I recommend the article, because the author makes other points that contradict other claims made in your copy-and-paste post of HoY's material.

Again, it boils down to a question of whose material you think is more reliable. Are you going to trust the work of a messianic Jew who actually knows Hebrew, or are you going to trust the claims a Goy cult leader who fraudulently claims to be Jewish and doesn't know Hebrew?

Fact-checking is not always easy, but it often isn't very difficult either. The choice is yours to make, and yours alone. I will leave you to it.

snoopsnuffleopagus
18-11-2008, 02:26 PM
kasalt
With all due respect, I think it might help if you would make a better attempt at fact-checking your sources before you copy-and-paste to the forum. Here are a couple of examples to show you what I mean.

Fact-checking is not always easy, but it often isn't very difficult either. The choice is yours to make, and yours alone. I will leave you to it.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

yo! kasalt! you got three of your fingers pointing right back at you! lol

Look at the 'questionable' materiel you Post, who are you to tell others what to do, what you do not do yourself?



Originally Posted By: KASALT

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ghlight=mullet

Is anyone familiar with this website:

http://www.lovewithoutend.com/

It was set up by a woman named Glenda Green. Her bio states that she is the "author of the best-selling Love Without End, Jesus Speaks, and artist of the internationally acclaimed painting, "The Lamb and The Lion." She is acknowledged by the nation's leading scholars, critics, and museum officials as one of the world's foremost portrait painters and spiritual artists. With paintings in such important collections as the Smithsonian Institution, the Museum of the City of New York, and Williams College Museum of Art, Glenda Green has for many years been considered one of America's finest realist oil painters."

In her book, Love Without End, Jesus Speaks, she claims to have had face-to-face conversations with "Jeshua" (i.e., Jesus), which I realize is immediately problematic for those of us who suspect that this individual may never have actually lived in the first place. However, I have read this book (link to Amazon.com), and I did find it to be quite insightful IMO.

She also sells a collection of blended essential oils. I have tried several, and I must say that the one called "Forgiveness" is quite possibly the most wonderful aroma I have ever smelled. It is certainly the most wonderful aroma I have ever smelled from a bottle! Here's a link to it if anyone is interested in trying it:


http://lovewithoutend.com/product_in...products_id=39


Here is the .jpg of her portrait entitled "The Lamb and the Lion":
Here is a link to her article explaining the meaning of this portrait, called "The Story Behind the Miracle Painting":

http://lovewithoutend.com/custom/ind...4958c93c7f0236

Glenda Green authored
the best-selling book
“Love Without End, Jesus
Speaks” and “The Keys
of Jeshua.”

Locate a Regional Study Group or find out how to start a study group in your area.
About Glenda
In 1992 Glenda painted the internationally acclaimed masterpiece, “The Lamb
and The Lion.” She is acknowledged by the nation's leading scholars, critics, and museum officials as one of the world's foremost portrait painters and spiritual artists. :rolleyes: With paintings in such important collections as the Smithsonian Institution, the Museum of the City of New York, and Williams College Museum of Art, Glenda Green has for many years been considered one of America's finest realist oil painters. Glenda's creative style as an artist is marked by intuitive spirituality, profound emotion, evocative color, and exquisite craftsmanship.

Her spiritual writing and teaching are also now legendary. They have come
from inspired collaboration with “Jeshua,” — Jeshua ben Joseph (son of Joseph). Jesus Christ is the name by which he is known in many modern cultures. :rolleyes:

Jeshua first appeared to Glenda in 1991, manifesting from a field of Light that inundated her in such waves of Love that her world stood still and transformed forever. :rolleyes:

Subsequently, they began to enjoy daily communion as she proceeded
with their first project, which was painting the now internationally renowned
“The Lamb and The Lion.”

During these first visits Jeshua effectively revealed and dismantled Glenda’s ego identity and led her to know her true nature as love. In these days there were
also poignant challenge to her self confidence, amidst the struggles of doubt, unworthiness, and endless questions.

Miracles have followed, however, in the aftermath of their co-creations. Extraordinary healings have occurred, in body, mind, and spirit in the lives of thousands, who attest to the unique depth of wisdom that flows from Jeshua
in his messages through Glenda. The “Way” he has shown is both mystical and eminently practical. It is offered from the highest levels of wisdom, magnetizing
the soul into the Christ Heart. :rolleyes:

I say anybody who Posts such obviously fraudulent materiel such as this, has no authority to question anybodys else Posts. I would have to say the quality of Buffalo Bills work is of a magnitude of 1,000,000 times superior to this materiel you Post.

example: http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW12-04/search.htm

What say you kasalt?

synergy777
18-11-2008, 05:50 PM
snoop thanks for sticking up for me bro. but i need constructive criticism in order to improve, and kasalt does have a valid point. i am too lazy to check things, i do all my stuff off the cuff, freeflow, i should take more time and plan things.

synergy777
18-11-2008, 06:11 PM
http://www.redicecreations.com/

The Piso Family and the Story of The Bible

"The New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso family, who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in it - Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples, apostles, Paul, and John the Baptist - are all fictional."

Abelard Reuchlin

****************

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_piso.htm

How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has bee for us"

Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

- About Josephus ' Mention of "Jesus" - and other NT characters

- Alias Identities In Ancient History - How and Why they were Used

- Bush-Windsor-Piso Bloodline Chart

- Flavius Josephus Was Really Arrius Piso

- Josephus' Deliberate Deception

- Harvard's 1st Century History

- The Synthesis Of Christianity - How and Why Ancient Rulers Needed to Create a Universal Religion

- Who Wrote The New Testament?

-----

Supportive Information

- About William Whiston

- Against Apion - by Flavius Josephus

-----

Related Reports

- The Bushes and The New World Order - Main File

- The Dark History of The Vatican - Main File

kasalt
19-11-2008, 02:35 AM
yo! kasalt! you got three of your fingers pointing right back at you!

And you don't?

I say anybody who Posts such obviously fraudulent materiel such as this, has no authority to question anybodys else Posts.

Remember, there are three fingers pointing back at you and all that. I would suggest that you take your own medicine.

I freely admitted in my OP that I thought some of it was rubbish when I first posted that thread over a year ago. You are so desparate to find something against anything I've posted. Can't you find some rubbish I've posted that is more recent than that?

snoop thanks for sticking up for me bro. but i need constructive criticism in order to improve, and kasalt does have a valid point.

Come to think of it Synergy, it can be a good idea to post material even when if we're not sure of the facts, because someone else may have the facts and be able to clear up the confusion.

As long as our goal is to find out the truth, that's all that matters imo. :)

snoopsnuffleopagus
19-11-2008, 03:35 AM
And you don't?
Remember, there are three fingers pointing back at you and all that. I would suggest that you take your own medicine.
I freely admitted in my OP that I thought some of it was rubbish when I first posted that thread over a year ago. You are so desparate to find something against anything I've posted. Can't you find some rubbish I've posted that is more recent than that?
Come to think of it Synergy, it can be a good idea to post material even when if we're not sure of the facts, because someone else may have the facts and be able to clear up the confusion.
As long as our goal is to find out the truth, that's all that matters imo. :)

The Talmudic Zionistas Hasidics come immediately to mind. :D :rolleyes:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=611673&postcount=195
Like this?
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=611637&postcount=191

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=615669&postcount=203

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=608225&postcount=168

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=618372&postcount=913

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=606955&postcount=157

I notice you use the word Truth; would you define that for me please. :) It has different meanings to different people.

And please share your keen insight asto my next Post.

snoopsnuffleopagus
19-11-2008, 03:45 AM
A Perspective


http://webbpage.bravehost.com/Yavo/1_3_BlizBivin_JesusJew.html#101
Jesus a Jew? Says Who?
Dr. Roy Blizzard and David Bivin

As surprising as it may seem, many Christians are not aware that Jesus was a Jew. As a matter of fact, when some hear it said that he was, they get indignant and even mad. This has happened to both authors many times.

"How can you say Jesus was a Jew? Everybody knows he was conceived of the Holy Spirit and is therefore God and not a Jew. He just happened to live among the Jews."

This is a verbatim response to a statement made by Dr. Roy Blizzard during an appearance on Trinity Broadcasting Network on February 21, 1985. The above was not an isolated response to Dr. Blizzard's statement. A number of other viewers reacted in a similar vein. For instance: "What is all this stuff about Jesus being a Jew? He wasn't a Jew; he was the first Christian and the founder of the Christian Church."

It is most unfortunate that this type of thinking is prevalent in Christian circles today. Actually, it is an expression of a subtle, often subconscious, attitude on the part of many Christians that is quite serious and most dangerous. We might even go so far as to define it as "hellish." It is a "hellish," ingrained antisemitism that expresses itself in an unwillingness to accept Jesus as a Jew. The perverted logic is, "How could anyone so dear and precious to me, someone I love so much and to whom I have surrendered my life, be a Jew?"

The authors believe that this type of thinking expresses the conviction of many Christians today. It is usually buried deep within the subconscious mind, or repressed, and only manifests itself overtly when one's spiritual guard is down. It is the result of the spiritual ship of the Word of God being torn loose from the moorings of the historical foundations of biblical faith moorings that were secured firmly in the foundations of historic Judaism.

As a result, the spiritual ship has, for centuries, been awash in a sea of pagan theology that has led to the gentilization, i.e., paganization, of the Church. We have forgotten that we were wild olive branches grafted into the natural olive tree. We have forgotten from whence it is that the branch receives the nourishing sap. We have forgotten that we no longer have pagan ancestors, but our ancestors are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Rebecca, and Rachel, and that we too passed through the sea with Moses. We have lost our affinity to things Jewish and, if you will, to a Jewish Jesus.

The church has failed to recognize for the last 1800 years that the movement to which Jesus gave birth was a Jewish one, totally within the historic Judaism of his day. Further, Jesus himself was a Jew, a rabbi, spoke Hebrew, used well-known rabbinic methods of teaching, and perhaps most importantly, drew largely on the Scriptures and oral traditions of his day in his teaching.


It is often overlooked that much of what Jesus said was not new or original but was based on what the rabbis had said and were saying. Jesus was constantly referring back to the Scriptures and to the oral traditions of rabbis who had preceded him or who were his contemporaries. Unless this fact is clearly understood, one will be greatly confused when an attempt is made to understand the magnificent sayings of our Lord.

The above television viewers are obviously unacquainted with the real Jesus. It is the purpose of this article to address the question--Was Jesus a Jew?

It is very difficult for us, almost 2000 years removed from Jesus' day, to project ourselves back across the centuries of time to a culture and language so totally foreign to the western mind of today. And yet, before we can even begin to understand the magnificent and thrilling words of Jesus, that is exactly what we must do.

And again, the first thing that one must realize is that Jesus was a Jew. This fact should be obvious; however, as we have mentioned, it is surprising how many Christians are shocked to learn that Jesus was a Jew. And not just any ordinary Jew. He was a rabbi, a teacher, one learned in the Scriptures and the religious literature of his day, which was considerable.

Let us analyze the logic of the argument that Jesus was not a Jew. The fact that multitudes of Christians believe this is astonishing. Even the skeptics and the agnostics throughout the ages never advanced this argument. To begin with, Jesus' genealogy is Jewish. In the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, his lineage is traced back to David and the patriarchs in typical Jewish fashion. The angel Gabriel announced to Mary that the child, Jesus, that would be conceived by the Holy Spirit within her womb, would be given "the throne of his ancestor, David" (Luke 1:32). His family was Jewish: his earthly father's name, Joseph, was the second most common Jewish name of the period, exceeded only by the name Simeon.

His mother's name, Mary, was the most common Jewish feminine name of the period. Jesus himself had a common Jewish name. We learn from the inscriptions dating from the first century that the name Jesus was the third most common man's name, tied with the names Judah and Zachariah. He had Jewish relatives: Elizabeth, Zachariah the priest, and their son, John the Baptist, as well as his own brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judah, and his sisters, who are unnamed (Matthew 13:55, 56; Mark 6:3). Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day (Luke 2:21), and since his parents were not from the tribe of Levi, after Mary's purification, "according to the Law of Moses" (Luke 3:21), when Jesus was one month old, he was taken by his parents to Jerusalem for the ceremony known as pidyon ha-ben, or Redemption of the First Born (See Numbers (3:14, 16, 18; 18:15-16).

Jesus' parents went to Jerusalem every year to observe the Feast of Passover (Luke 2:41). Jesus too was an observant Jew. It was his custom to attend the synagogue services on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16). According to the Gospels, on at least one occasion (Luke 4:17-20), he was called upon to publicly read from the scriptures in the synagogue, something a non-Jew would never have been asked to do.

Like all observant Jews of the first century, Jesus wore tzitziyot, ("tassels" or "fringes") on the four corners of his robe as commanded in Numbers 15:37-41 (compare Deuteronomy 22:12). We see this dramatically illustrated in the story of the woman who, for twelve years, had suffered from a flow of blood. She was healed when she came up behind him and touched the "fringe of his garment" (Matthew 9:30, parallel to Luke 8:44). References to the fringed garment which Jesus wore can also be found in Mark 5:56 (parallel to Matthew 14:36).

We can only conclude that in his manner of dress Jesus was just like the other observant Jews of his day.
Those outside the mainstream of Judaism, as well as non-Jews, also testify to his Jewishness. For example, when Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well and asks her for a drink of water, she questions, "How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?" (John 4:9).

During Jesus' interrogation by Pilate, the Roman procurator of Judea (A.D. 26-36), Pilate explodes in frustration, "Am I a Jew?", and then states, "Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me" (John 18:35).
The skeptics who have tried to discredit Jesus have frequently claimed that Jesus did not believe he was the Messiah, nor claim to be the Messiah: but none have ever accused Jesus of not being a Jew. And it is no wonder. In view of the evidence, if Jesus was not a Jew, who is, or who was?

(The above is a brief excerpt from an unpublished manuscript by Mr. Bivin and Dr. Blizzard entitled, "Jesus the Rabbi and His Rabbinic Method of Teaching.")

________________________________
.

snoopsnuffleopagus
19-11-2008, 04:09 AM
Yes He Did! :)


http://webbpage.bravehost.com/Yavo/1_2_Bliz_JesusSpokeHebrew.html#101
Jesus Spoke Hebrew! Says Who?
by Dr. Roy B. Blizzard, Jr.

It has been almost four* years since our book Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus by David Bivin and me first appeared. Since that time, it has become a "best seller," is in the process of being translated into Dutch and Spanish, and is about ready for the fourth printing. In addition, the book has been reviewed in several major publications, and all of them have given it a good report. However, in spite of the wide circulation and publicity that it has enjoyed, many people continue to be amazed when they hear me state that Jesus spoke and taught in Hebrew. Those who have not read this book or who hear me speak for the first time frequently ask, "How do you know Jesus spoke and taught in Hebrew?"

This question was the very reason Mr. Bivin and I wrote the book. And I think that it is important to note that the book was intentionally written in a style that the average reader could understand, and not principally for scholars. Almost every real criticism the book has received (in critical reviews) has been that it was written in a "popular style." Actually, Mr. Bivin and I take that as a compliment rather than a criticism, as it was our design and intent from the start that the book should be written in such a way that the average reader could understand it.

In Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus, we present considerable evidence to conclusively establish that:

* Jesus spoke and taught in Hebrew;

* Hebrew was the language of the common person in Judea in Jesus' day;

* The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were all based on an original Life Story of Jesus that was written originally in Hebrew and not in Aramaic or in Greek.

These facts have long been known by scholars in Israel, but are only now being introduced into countries outside of Israel. The reasons for this are simply that our research in Israel is years ahead of publication, and second, that scholarship in this country by and large has not kept up with the research and discoveries in Israel.

This is one reason I believe that the Yavo Digest can be an important source of information and learning for you, and why I sincerely hope you will subscribe to it for yourself and perhaps for some of your friends as well. There is so much that we have to share and so little of it has yet been presented in written form.

What evidence do we have that established unequivocally that Hebrew was the language Jesus spoke and in which He taught?

The Testimony of Early Christian Writers

Early Christian writers who mention the subject are all in unanimous agreement that the original Gospel was written by Matthew in Hebrew.

The earliest of these writers was Papias (Fragment 6), dating from about A.D. 167, who records, "Matthew compiled the sayings of Jesus in the Hebrew tongue, and everyone translated them as well as he could" (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, III,39,1). Irenaeus, one of the earliest of the Church Fathers, confirms Papias' statement a few years later when he writes, "Matthew published a written Gospel for the Hebrews in their own tongue" (ibid, V,8,2).

A Jewish believer named Hegesippus is reported to "draw occasionally on the Gospel of the Hebrews ... and particularly on works in Hebrew" (ibid. IV,22,4). However, the most dramatic testimony to the existence of an original Hebrew Gospel is the well-known Jerome, who translated the Scriptures into Latin in Bethlehem circa A.D. 400. In Jerome's extensive writings there are nineteen passages that speak of a "Hebrew Gospel" or a Gospel "according to the Hebrews."

On one occasion he speaks of "the Gospel according to the Hebrews" which, he says, "I have recently translated into Greek and Latin" (De vir. ill., II). On another occasion he writes, "In the Gospel which the Nazoraeans and the Ebionites use, which we have translated recently from Hebrew into Greek, and which is called the authentic text of Matthew by a good many ..." (In Matt., 12,13). His most interesting and telling statement can be found in "Lives of Illustrious Men," 3, in Volume 3 of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Father, edited by P. Schaff and H. Wace, page 362.

Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered.

I have also had the opportunity of having the volume described to me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, a city of Syria, who use it. In this it is to be noted that wherever the Evangelist, whether on his own account or in the person of our Lord the Saviour, quotes the testimony of the Old Testament, he does not follow the authority of the translators of the Septuagint, but the Hebrew.

Epiphanius (4th century A.D.) Describes the "Nazoraioi" (Jewish believers) as "painstakingly cultivating the Hebrew language in which they read both the Old Testament and the Gospel according to Matthew"

(Panarion 1,29,7 and 9). Pantaenus, the teacher of Clement of Alexandria, relates having found the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew as far away as in India (Eusebius, op. cit., V,10,3).

Coins and Inscriptions

Although there is a difference of opinion among scholars currently working in the field as to the importance of coins in deciding the language of Israel in the first centuries B.C./A.D., I believe coins and inscriptions are an important tool for determining the principal spoken language of this period. In my view, the evidence of coinage is dramatic. From the fourth century B.C. until the end of the Bar-Cochba Revolt in A.D. 135--the entire history of Jewish coinage--only one coin is inscribed in Aramaic (Alexander Jannaeus, 103-76 B.C.). All the rest are in Hebrew.

In addition, there is considerable epigraphical evidence from the period to establish Hebrew as the principal spoken language. In excavations in occupation levels from the first centuries B.C./A.D. at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, not one Aramaic inscription has been found. However, several exciting and important Hebrew inscriptions have been found (see UDWJ, pgs. 58-59).

At Masada, Herod's fortress on the Dead Sea, the epigraphical evidence is staggering: fragments of 14 scrolls, over 4000 coins, and more than 700 inscribed pottery fragments. In these, the ratio of Hebrew to Aramaic exceeds nine to one.

Inscriptions on pottery vessels, burial ossuaries, tombs, walls, mosaic floors, and so on, all attest to Hebrew as the spoken and written language of the common people.

Of course, the Dead Sea Scrolls provide for us one of the most dramatic and significant of the epigraphical evidences for Hebrew. The Dead Sea Scrolls include nearly 600 partial manuscripts, both biblical and non-biblical, indicated by some 40,000 fragments. The most telling evidence of the scrolls is found in the sectarian scrolls and the commentaries on the biblical scrolls. In the sectarian scrolls, the ratio of Hebrew to Aramaic is, again, nine to one, but all of the commentaries are in Hebrew. It is impossible to conclude that a commentary on the Scripture would be written in a language other than the popular language of the people.

Evidence from the New Testament Text

The most conclusive evidence for Hebrew as the principal language behind not just the Synoptic Gospels, but the New Testament in its entirety, is the text itself. The New Testament is literally filled with semitisms: Hebrew vocabulary, Hebrew syntax, Hebrew idioms, Hebrew thought patterns, and Hebrew theology. Moulton and Howard have compiled an impressive 72-page-long list of Hebrew expressions and idioms found in the New Testament in their Grammar, Vol. 2, pgs. 413-485. Professor David Flusser of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and a member of The Jerusalem School for the Study of the Synoptic Gospels, has emphatically stated, "Of the hundreds of Semitic idioms in the Synoptic Gospels, most can be explained on the basis of Hebrew only, while there are no Semitisms which could only be Aramaic without also being good Hebrew." Joining Professor Flusser are such notable scholars as Pinchas Lapide (Bar-Ilan University, Tel Aviv), Frank Cross (Harvard University), William Sanford LaSor (Fuller Seminary), Harris Birkland, and J.T. Milik. Even Moshe Bar-Asher, the prominent Aramaic scholar at the Hebrew University, has stated that he believes the Synoptic Gospels go back to an original Hebrew--and not Aramaic--document.

To the New Testament scholar fluent in both Hebrew and Greek, it is immediately apparent that the Greek of the Synoptic Gospels, the first fifteen chapters of the Book of Acts, the Book of Hebrews, and the Book of Revelation, as well as vast portions of the remaining portions of the New Testament text, is not Greek at all, but Hebrew in Greek dress. However, there is an important fact that cannot be over-emphasized: To the scholar fluent in Hebrew, it is additionally apparent that the thought patterns behind the entire New Testament are Hebrew, and not Aramaic or Greek." :)

merlincove
19-11-2008, 04:35 AM
My own conceptual idea of Jesus is that He was the King of the Jews and that he was in essence heir to the throne of David.

In one sense then he was the Dalia Lama of his time, the spiritual heir to the Jewish people, his lineage outed by Herod and the factions of Rome.

Joseph, in the interim would have also been heir to the throne, although as his physical son Jesus would have taken on that mantle when he was old enough.

Having said that, however, i am comfortable with the ascertion that Jesus was a highly evolved energy - an ascended being who walked on the earth plane.

His gifts would have given him great sway among 'his' people, and as such convincing his disciples to follow him would have been an easy task.

His family were good friends with Pilot, and indeed Joseph of Aramathea, was a regular vistor to Pilot, as well as a regular visitor to the shores of England where he traded goods.

i feel strongly that Jesus would have joined Joseph on some of his many trips as a merchant to England and indeed, as the hymn says 'And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon England's mountains green'

isn't there a few books about Jesus walking to Kashmir and spending time in tibet and india after his crucifixion? i'd love to have a read of it as i have only heard mention of it a few times, here and there :-)

brainfreeze
19-11-2008, 04:42 AM
My own conceptual idea of Jesus is that He was the King of the Jews and that he was in essence heir to the throne of David.

In one sense then he was the Dalia Lama of his time, the spiritual heir to the Jewish people, his lineage outed by Herod and the factions of Rome.

Joseph, in the interim would have also been heir to the throne, although as his physical son Jesus would have taken on that mantle when he was old enough.

Having said that, however, i am comfortable with the ascertion that Jesus was a highly evolved energy - an ascended being who walked on the earth plane.

His gifts would have given him great sway among 'his' people, and as such convincing his disciples to follow him would have been an easy task.

His family were good friends with Pilot, and indeed Joseph of Aramathea, was a regular vistor to Pilot, as well as a regular visitor to the shores of England where he traded goods.

i feel strongly that Jesus would have joined Joseph on some of his many trips as a merchant to England and indeed, as the hymn says 'And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon England's mountains green'

isn't there a few books about Jesus walking to Kashmir and spending time in tibet and india after his crucifixion? i'd love to have a read of it as i have only heard mention of it a few times, here and there :-)

I've not heard of that happening after the crucifiction, but The Aquarian Gospel of the Jesus Christ documents the introduction of John the Baptist and Jesus (they were cousins) into the church and their religious education which involved visiting places like Tibet.

lostinstrangeworld
19-11-2008, 05:11 AM
Flippin' 'eck.....lots to read here. :eek: :D

Bookmarked!

merlincove
19-11-2008, 10:54 AM
I've not heard of that happening after the crucifiction, but The Aquarian Gospel of the Jesus Christ documents the introduction of John the Baptist and Jesus (they were cousins) into the church and their religious education which involved visiting places like Tibet.

it's just a kinda personal belief i have had, for the most part since childhood, that has evolved into a more definate picture as i have spoken with people about it.

apparently there were some buddhist tapestries found in a tibetan monestary depicting Christ, bearing the marks of crucifixion, healing monks, altho i don't believe that it has been dated to confirm its age.

a quick google throws us this

http://www.spiritandflesh.com/Christ_Tibet.htm

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/570/thankawwwviewzonecomjeskd7.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thankawwwviewzonecomjeskd7.jpg)


i always felt deep down that Christ located himself in Tibet, and held the view that this must have been in his early life, in his early teens through into his mid twenties. Speaking about these solid mind sets of 'feeling' it to be true rather than having read or being taught it allowed me to get a fuller picture.

Amazon.com: Jesus in Kashmir: The Lost Tomb (9781419611759): Suzanne Olsson: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LsmgnGUFL.@@AMEPARAM@@51LsmgnGUFL

i haven't managed to get a copy yet - its prob on my christmas list :-)

1977
20-11-2008, 04:07 AM
Jesus was killed by the Illuminati Brotherhood as a Sacred king - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ritual to ceremonially end the age of Aries and inagurate the age of Pisces.

James Frazer got very close to the truth in his book The Golden Bough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, although being a scientific materialist, he was not entirely correct in regards to the implications:

Old religions were fertility cults that revolved around the worship of, and periodic sacrifice of, a sacred king. This king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the earth, who died at the harvest, and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend is central to almost all of the world's mythologies.

It is far too easy to say that Jesus did not exist. Christianity succeeded where other pagan religions failed because it was tied to a Magickal Working in a precise moment in time.

phildee3
20-11-2008, 08:52 PM
It is far too easy to say that Jesus did not exist. Christianity succeeded where other pagan religions failed because it was tied to a Magickal Working in a precise moment in time.



Yesssss!

Now here's someone who knows what they're talking about!

For more, study Rudolf Steiner and the Mystery of Golgotha!

stfd
21-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Yesssss!

Now here's someone who knows what they're talking about!

For more, study Rudolf Steiner and the Mystery of Golgotha!

There is nothing 'Magickal' about Christianity, miraculous - yes.

phildee3
21-11-2008, 10:30 PM
There is nothing 'Magickal' about Christianity, miraculous - yes.



Miracles happen.
Magic is performed.

Both are relevent in Christianity.
The central rite in Christendom, the Eucharist, is the highest form of magic possible!

snoopsnuffleopagus
21-11-2008, 10:48 PM
And there is the Rub; phildee3.

The 'magick' you and yours perform is not the same as the 'Invoking of Yahwehs Holy Spirit' that Yahshua Messiah taught to the Apostles and Disciples.

A Scripturally Proven Fact is: Yahshuah Messiah, All the Apostles and Many of the Disciples were upholders and Keepers of Yahwehs Laws and Commandments. They would 'Test' the Spirit, that it speak of Yahwehs Laws and Prophecies. There would be no deviation from the Laws of Yahweh.

you and yours do not perform the same Due Diligence.

any 'All That Is' come lately seems to suffice.

whole different 'Kettle of Fish' eh wot?

phildee3
21-11-2008, 11:00 PM
The 'magick' you and yours perform is not the same as the 'Invoking of Yahwehs Holy Spirit'



Correct.
We don't offer blood sacrifices to Yahweh.

We invoke the Christos.

They are totally opposite, as are the OT and NT,
and their respective theologies.

One is about death, fear, retribution and punishment.
The other love, life, joy, peace, and forgiveness.

1977
21-11-2008, 11:43 PM
"Magickal" is their word, not mine.

phildee3
21-11-2008, 11:57 PM
"Magickal" is their word, not mine.



If you're referring to the spelling, it is a Thelemite word,
not a pagan one.

1977
22-11-2008, 12:17 AM
If you're referring to the spelling, it is a Thelemite word,
not a pagan one.
Indeed. It seems the most fitting, actually, as there is nothing "miraculous" about a ritual human sacrifice. Perhaps we shall follow the Catholic lead, and call it a "Mystery"? ;)

stfd
22-11-2008, 12:42 AM
Miracles happen.
Magic is performed.

Both are relevent in Christianity.
The central rite in Christendom, the Eucharist, is the highest form of magic possible!

Humans cannot prform miracles themselfes , only God doeas that - through them or dirrectly.

Additionally act of 'magick' or whatever u wanna call it, are also NOT done by humans , but through them - by the 'evil dude'.

merlincove
22-11-2008, 02:06 AM
Are you saying that David blane is 'the evil dude'? :eek:

He is scary enough! lol

Derren brown is scary too, though he's kinda got the whole cool thing going on. :rolleyes:

sorry...

armoured_amazon
22-11-2008, 02:30 AM
Miracles happen.
Magic is performed.

Both are relevent in Christianity.
The central rite in Christendom, the Eucharist, is the highest form of magic possible!

And that is EVIL! It is NOT of God.

phildee3
22-11-2008, 06:19 AM
"Miracles happen.
Magic is performed."

Humans cannot prform miracles themselfes , only God doeas that - through them or dirrectly.



You're still responding to posts without reading them, stfd.
That's exactly what I said!

phildee3
22-11-2008, 06:21 AM
And that is EVIL! It is NOT of God.



The Eucharistic rite???
First performed by Jesus at the Last Supper??

Uhm, okay!

synergy777
27-11-2008, 07:19 PM
icke calls reality illusion, i call it maya/illusion

icke talks about time loops, reincarnation, etc.

i call it samsara/cycle of cause and effect, birth, death and rebirth

icke calls it enlightenment/escape from the matrix, the return to infinite consciousness, the droplet and ocean analogy.

i call it moksha/mukti, the liberation from samsara/cycle of birth-death-rebirth and the recognition of the illusionary nature of life/maya

and this allegedly constitutes enlightenment.

icke says that infinite love, infinite conscinouss etc is the true reality.

i call it brahman.

Brahman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brahman is the Absolute Reality or universal substrate (not to be confused with the Creator god Brahmā) is said to be eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and ultimately indescribable in human language.

The sage-seers of the Upanishads had fully realized Brahman as the reality behind their own being and of everything else in this universe. They were thus Brahmins in the true sense of the word.

These rishis described Brahman as infinite Being, infinite Consciousness, and infinite Bliss (satcitananda).

Brahman is regarded as the source and essence of the material universe. The initial unmanifest state of singularity of the universe is described as a beyond being and non-being in the Nasadiya Sukta. The Rig Veda says that by the desire of the Supreme Being (RV 10.129.4), the initial manifestation of the material universe came into being from Hiranyagarbha (literally "golden womb"), out of which all worlds, organisms and divine beings (devas) arise:

"Great indeed are the devas who have sprung out of Brahman." — Atharva Veda

Para Brahman corresponds to the concept of Godhead and Saguna Brahman to God as the Primordial Being.

It is said that Brahman cannot be known by material means, that we cannot be made conscious of it, because Brahman is our very consciousness. Brahman is also not restricted to the usual dimensional perspectives of being, and thus enlightenment, moksha, yoga, samadhi, nirvana, etc. do not merely mean to know Brahman, but to realise one's "brahman-hood", to actually realise that one is and always was of Brahman nature (cf. the Mahayana concept of Buddha Nature).

Indeed, closely related to the Self concept of Brahman is the idea that it is synonymous with jiva-atma, or individual souls, our atman (or soul) being readily identifiable with the greater soul (paramatma) of Brahman.

Generally, Vedanta rejects the notion of an evolving Brahman since Brahman contains within it the potentiality and archetypes behind all possible manifest phenomenal forms. The Vedas, though they are in some respects historically conditioned are considered by Hindus to convey a knowledge eternal, timeless and always contemporaneous with Brahman. This knowledge is considered to have been handed down by realised yogins to students many generations before the vedas were committed to writing. Written texts of the Vedas are a relatively recent phenomenon.

synergy777
24-12-2008, 03:12 PM
there are many so called true descriptions of jesus, ranging from brown, blonde, red hair to blue, grey eyes etc. which one is true, blonde hair, brown hair or red hair. is it the cesare borgia clone of the rome, is it the one of the orthodox versions of the other churches.

the fact is if jesus was born in bethelem, then bethelem is in judea, bethelem is in modern day palestine.

i believe jesus was a native of that area, and considering he went to egypt, whilst escaping from king herod. then jesus would in my view be of asiatic appearence eg african/middle eastern. hence i believe jesus was of brown skin, black hair.

i do not trust the later versions, as they are all different, eg one has blonde hair, another has red hair, the others have brown hair. either jesus liked to dye his hair, or they are wrong, lol

the earliest descriptions of jesus show him to be brown skinned and having black hair, the same with mary and joseph. also if ther sheperds and the wise men/magi are depicted as wearing headresses and turbans, with black/brown hair and brown skin.

why is it ok to show the sheperds and wiseman as asiatic but not jesus?

the fact is that the church/elite changed jesus into a european to support their agenda, to reinforce the curse of ham/brown skin, to justify the racial doctrine of brown skin being inferior to white, to brown people being sub human, thus justifying slavery/crusades. the modern day euro centric version of jesus is a hybrid of cesare borgia and the zeus/greek gods.

i believe jesus was brown skinned and had black hair, like most jews/judeans of that time. however the most important thing is the message, eg love/compassion towards everyone, towards all mankind, 1love.

BBC unveils hi-tech Jesus

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1243339.stm

Looking for the historical Jesus

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/t...dio/1243954.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/1243954.stm)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7889/1243954jesus300iw1.jpg

merlincove
24-12-2008, 03:31 PM
This is a good point synergy, and one that leads us toward seeing that Jesus was not the white blonde haired guy we see in all the church windows.

Chris Rock said it perfectly in Dogma when he said that Jesus was 'a brother, he was black man'. When asked why it was that he was written out of the bible for being black and Jesus was left in he said that you can't really have the bible without the Son of God can you- whether he was black or not he remains.

A great film.

Seeing the three magi as turbaned is allowed because these guys are simply bit players.

The church has focused on Christ as being white to push its agenda that the white race is best. It is pushing the Arian agenda that nazi germany pushed, simply with a different slant.

And i guess at the end of the day, is the westernised church going to accept a brown skinned man to kneel before? And if he looks similar to a muslim then where does that leave the christian faith?

i have always believed that Jesus Christ was dark skinned, it seems obvious.

Christ was born into the royal lineage of David, he was heir to the throne of David, as was his father Joseph. Christ was quite literally the king of the Jews. Look at any depiction of David or his family to see the colour of christ's skin.

respect

edit: most of the photo's i have found on google of King Davis show a white man! There are a few that show him wearing a turban, one or two that show him as dark skinned - one even shows him as a very pale fat white guy in a toga! lol...

synergy777
24-12-2008, 03:41 PM
merlin, spot on bro.

i believe that if jesus was depicted accurately, eg a brown man, then racism would die very quickly. as many who are racist use the bible/jesus as their main foundation for their view point. thus if they knew that jesus was brown, then racism would in my view fall, humanity could then view itself as a family, as equal.

racism comes from the elite, its divide and rule.

if one looks at science and scripture, racism is destroyed, thus racism in my view is a temporay state, a state of ignorance.

the magi/wisemen in my view were most probably chaldean/sumeria, as vedic astrogology was the basis for western astroglogy.

i'm indian, a sikh, we celebrate christmas, we see jesus for what he is.

the funny thing, i we had leaflets from the jw, one in english, one in hindi, and jesus looked asiatic/brown skin, lol

synergy777
24-12-2008, 04:23 PM
also about judah/judea, it was one two kingdoms that stayed together. the other 1o kingdoms were against them, hence the 12 tribes of israel etc.

also the whole nazi aryan things was a mish mash of esoteric/satanic and vedic texts. aryans are actually from india, hence why the aryan texts and language are based in india, eg the vedas, mahabharat, the language of sanskrit etc.

hence why hitler was seen by some vedic scholars as the incarnation of vishnu, he was seen as kalki, the 10th incarnation. also where did the nazis get the aryan doctrine from, they got it from max muller, what did max muller study, he studied vedic history. he even apologised to indian scholars, about the corruption and hijacking of aryan/vedic culture by the european elite/nazis.

the fact is that aryan is a way of life for all people, a vedic inspired way of life, eg compassion towards humans/nature, meditation, aryuvedic medicine, vedic science/maths, vegetarian diet, non violence/ahimsa. not eugenics/super race, global war/dictatorship

thelucifer
24-12-2008, 05:43 PM
merlin, spot on bro.

i believe that if jesus was depicted accurately, eg a brown man, then racism would die very quickly. as many who are racist use the bible/jesus as their main foundation for their view point. thus if they knew that jesus was brown, then racism would in my view fall, humanity could then view itself as a family, as equal.

racism comes from the elite, its divide and rule.

if one looks at science and scripture, racism is destroyed, thus racism in my view is a temporay state, a state of ignorance.

the magi/wisemen in my view were most probably chaldean/sumeria, as vedic astrogology was the basis for western astroglogy.

i'm indian, a sikh, we celebrate christmas, we see jesus for what he is.

the funny thing, i we had leaflets from the jw, one in english, one in hindi, and jesus looked asiatic/brown skin, lol


Syn, curious what you think.


The word Adam (Jesus is said to be the second Adam, or better said, the Christ is the second Adam) means ruddy, to show blood in the face.
It has to do with Pedigree !
A white man.

The brown man does not show blood in the face.

Now I agree that Jesus would not have been white thus cannot be the second Adam.

merlincove
24-12-2008, 07:20 PM
A point that i was shown in vision many years ago reagrding the three mages / wise men, is that they were responsable for ushering in the Christ consciousness energy.

When we look at the bible i feel we are looking at metaphors, in general. Specifically where we see the voyage of Mary and Joseph with the unborn Christ; each inn that they come to is closed, full up etc. There are signs on the doors, no vaccancies and every inn thyey get to is the same. The metaphor of this is that the Christ energy was stopped incarnating on Earth, the dark forces stopped it time and time again, each time it came the dark forces managed to halt it.

Where we see the birth of Christ we see the three mages, one of which was Lord Merlin in one of his earliest bodily incarnations. These powerful mages had been tasked by creator to make certain Christ's consciousness prevailed into the earth plane - and here we see a representation of the number three, something that turns up time and time again throughout the bible. The light or the star is a way of showing that the dark forces intent on stopping the incoming energy were blinded by the mages magic, they created such a poowerful field of energy that the dark forces could not penetrate it, they could not see within it. And thus Christ was born unto the world of men.

Herrod, of course set out to destroy all the new born children, again the dark forces at work attempting to stop the light of Christ bringing salvation into the world of men.

Sinse that time Merlin has been a standard barer for the forces of light. I see him in his form as a wise man / magi, as a powerful Sarasen warrior. Were / are the Sarasens of the Sikh nations?

This is just how i have been shown, it may fit with someone it may not.

Interesting points synergy re the Vedas. Apparently George Lucas studied the Vedas and was inspired to pen the Star Wars novels and scripts, and later the films from them. Darth Vader is his own synonim to the Veda's (Vaders) and the power struggle between light side and dark side. Interesting stuff.

synergy777
13-02-2009, 01:00 PM
its a personal choice if people want to believe in god, jesus or not belive at all.

i do believe in jesus, i do not believe the esoteric/mystery school symbolism eg winter solistice/dec 25th etc, as i know rome added this after, eg saturnalia.

one should look at the clive prince books, he exposes the myths they added onto jesus. thus it is easy for people to recognise the myths and then come to the conclusion jesus never existed.

this false conclusion only serves the elite. as it only makes you more angry and increases the feeling of seperation from god. you feel betrayed and misled by god. you can even begin to hate god.

this creates a negative state, and we all know how negative thoughts/emotions control your own vibrational level and hence you are trapped in the lower dimensions of existence/perception/experience.

jesus existed, and his message threatened the elite, thats why they killed him. jesus was a revolutionary and a spiritual teacher, he preached compassion, equality, liberty and unity. all of these threatened the elites powerbase and hence the magnitude of control the elite had over us.

finding the truth about jesus is no different to finding the truth about the elite/nwo, 911 etc. you have to be impartial, objective and see every angle of the deception. alot of people don't believe in god/jesus because they see the lies and corruption that the elite added on.

they also suffer from negative emotions, have problems in their own life, and thus blame god for their life. these feelings of abandonment, betrayal, hurt, anger, fear then all hinder the objective thought process needed to know the truth.

i have experienced the feelings of anger, betrayal towards god. when i realised that the elite corrupted the religions, influenced the world, i truly felt betrayed by god, i questioned his love for us. i asked myself, why would a good god let the evil elite control us, let the elite mislead us. why would a good god allow the suffering in this world, why would a good god leave us to rot in this corrupt world. why would a good god let jesus be murdered on the cross, why didn't he protect jesus, why didn't he give jesus the power to defeat the elite etc.

all this is natural and can be overcome with knowledge and introspection.

without sounding all new age, lovey-dovey, tree hugging etc, god does exist, he/she does love everyone, and will help us. but first we must work on ourselves, we must make ourselves better eg more compassionate, more spiritual, more informed, we must strive for enlightenment. only then will we be able to use the power of god (spirit) properly. with great power, comes great responsibilty. remember power corrupts, thus if we are not already enlightend, prior to using our full powers, then we will use these powers wrongly, we will use them for our own personal aims/desires, we will abuse our power, become corrupted with it.

even if you don't believe in god, jesus, buddha, krishna etc, don't worry, as god understands your fears, anger, and still loves you. god is not wrathful or punishing, this is a lie invented by the elite. they want us to fear god, view god as a dictator etc. god is supreme intelligence, supreme wisdom, this means supreme compassion/love. they want us to fear god, they want us to fear hell. there is no hell, look at the history of the concept of hell, and you realise it is a creation of the elite from jewish texts.

god does not punish us, we punish ourselves. we punish ourselves due to our own negative actions, and the inevitable repercussions and consequences of these negative actions. also if we have negative desires/emotions etc then not only will this make us engage in negative actions, but also operating at this low level will only attract negative things towards us eg (law of attraction/karma).

god does not send us to hell, hell is the void, the absence of love and compassion. the absence of love and compassion we have towards ourselves, eachother and god. hell is our own creation and our own choice. thus don't believe the elite propaganda. they want us to lose hope, belief and love. they do not want us to believe, trust, know, and love god. they want us to fear god.

fear creates anger, anger creates hate. all these increase our own perceived disconnection from god. all these negative emotions only reinforce our attachment to the rationale/ego, the mind. we retreat into the sancturary and certainity of the mind. the mind is merely the by product of the brain, the brain is merely an organ (transducer/processor), an organ which ceases to function when our body dies. our spirit does not die, and cannot die. we are our spirit, not our body. thus like buddha etc said, do not attach ourselves to our mind/ego/brain, as these are impermanent/temporal.

if we look at basic neourology, 3 levels of consciouness etc, we know how easy it is to influence and manipulate our brains. from the right/left hemisphere divide, the triune construction eg reptile core. look at the ease in which we can trick/manipulate our brains eg hypnosis, optical illusion, subliminal, nlp etc. our brain is powerful, however it is easily tricked, hence easily manipulated.

god is the infinite, infinite energy/awareness, it is beyond the comprehension of our brains. our brains could not handle the power of the experience. thus do not believe the elite.

learn to love, love those you hate, conquer hate with love. increase your knowledge/wisdom, learn to empathise, have compassion. learn to recognise the divinity/spirit in all of us, all colours/nationalities/religions, learn to recognise the divinity in nature/animals/cosmos.

what most christians today believe is a polluted message with an even more polluted historic account of jesus's life. if we look at all famous historic figures, we all know that with time they and their life/message all get romanticised, corrupted etc.

the roman empire has been instrumental in creating this corrupted message. we need to look at the role of emperor constantine, the council of nicea, the arian controversy, the construction of the bible eg what books were ommitted eg the book of enoch, and how they came to have the 4 gospels.

look i love che guevara, have done all my life, had the big che flag in my uni room, brought the t-shirt, cultivated the beard/goatee. i believed in him. as i started to read more texts, other than the official ones, i realised he did some very bad things aswell. i realised that the doctrine he fought for eg communism, was even worse than capitialism and a creation of the elite, via their agent karl marx. i realised he believed in capital punishment, he killed many innocent people, i was guitted.

what christians need to do is understand jesus's words, not the chruch/elites view.

jesus himself spoke out against organised corrupt religion eg the high priests in the temple, the traders in the temple. he overturned the tables, caused a riot in the jewish temple. he wanted to end the corrupt religous system, he wanted to end the social discrimination, and he wanted to end the roman occupation of palestine/judea.

somethings don't change, lol

jesus said test them by their fruits eg test the scriptures, understand the message, understand the symbolism, metaphors, parables.

test the church and the politicians/elite not by their words, spin, and propaganda but by their actions.

the very authorities who jesus spoke out against, the romans and the jewish clergy, colluded together to murder/crucify him. these same authorities then took control of his message.

thats like the elite/nwo, killing david icke, and then publishing his books.

i believe that jesus was truly enlightend, like buddha and others etc. when he became enlightend he realised that every person was connected, we all could be enlightend etc. hence thats why he preached equality, unity, liberty, spirtual development, social justice etc

the fact is it was the romans/vatican who gave the western world eg northern europe, the religion of christianity. romans at that time believed in egyptain/persian/indian/greek religions eg pantheon of gods, mithras, sol invictus etc. they needed a religion that would accomodate all the religions of their empire. so they fused together elements of all the religions of the roman empire together.

i think jesus called himself the son of god, eg the child of the creator, because he knew that god created all of us, we all have a spirit, thus we all equal, all children of god.

in those days this was complete heresy, as it is today. the class/caste system in those days is no different than the class system in todays world. the jewish priests were the highest eg brahmans/clergy/vatican, the politicians second to them eg the romans/elite/nwo

people have to look at things in context, look at history aswell as scripture. they have too see the whole picture. what they suffer from is a diagnosed problem, it is called selective recognition/cognitive bias. this after learning all the facts leads to cognitive disssonance, thus they became overwhelmed and shut down, or resort back to type, eg blind faith. what people need to do is break free from this stockholm syndrome. we love the certainity/security of the elite.

we have the power, the elite have control of our power.

we need to control our power, then elite have nothing.

thats what jesus gave us, he gave us control of our power

synergy777
10-04-2009, 02:04 PM
‘ History cannot be permanently falsified; the myth cannot stand up to the scrutiny of scientific research; the sinister web will be brought into the light and torn to pieces, however artfully it has been spun.’

Dr. Jacob Ruchti - 1916

synergy777
30-05-2009, 01:16 PM
the most important thing about jesus in my view, is his message.

1: he said love the heavenly father/god/creator/infinite awareness etc with your heart, mind and soul.

2: love one another eg 1love.

surely no one can argue with these two commandments of jesus.

he spoke our against religous corruption eg the priesthood, overturning the tables in the temple etc.

he was for social equality, he stood up for the poor and oppressed.

he was executed by the political and religous elite, the romans and the jewish priesthood.

thus the elite hated him and his message of social equality, compassion and spiritual development.

we can argue the details of his life eg solar symbolism, parables etc. but his message is spot on.

rr_x
01-06-2009, 12:22 PM
The Real Jesus =

http://stardate.org/images/gallery/sun5.jpg

rr_x
01-06-2009, 12:24 PM
we can argue the details of his life eg solar symbolism, parables etc. but his message is spot on.

The masons often describe themselves as being a system of morals, veiled in allegory and illustrated in symbols.

This is a perfect summary for Jesus.

eternal_spirit
01-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Could be a Jewish joke on the gentiles that was Hilter called Christianity. Because he knew Jews don't view Jesus as the Messiah.

synergy777
08-07-2009, 04:07 PM
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=241

“The pagan intellectuals reclothed their original ideas in a garment of christian phraseology but bestowed the keys of the symbolism only upon those duly initiated and bound to secrecy”

- Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages

----------------

thus the esoteric elite used the teachings of jesus as a trojan horse, they added their symbolism eg solar symbolism etc onto the life and teachings of jesus.

remember emperor constantine and the council of nicea.

synergy777
09-07-2009, 11:50 AM
Chapter 1, verses 25-32 reads as follows:

‘Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

----------------------------------

heres my view.

proving jesus existed is very hard. proving any historic figure existed is hard, as all we have is texts and artwork.

unlike today, we could film and photgraph him, even then with technology, it could be manufactured, hence fake.

thus giving physical evidence is nigh on impossible.

in fact all historic figures are subject to scrutiny, as we have no real evidence other than texts/artwork.

thus we come to the bible. we all know the bible is a created text, created by the chruch/elite, eg the council of nicea. we all know the elite are an evil cartel. thus it is in their interest to make sure that the bible is full of contradiction, harsh laws, and portrays god has evil/vengeful. this then legitimises their own evil actions and their power. just as a government lies to us, in order to legitimise its policies, wars etc.

thus what we have then is the message. the message of jesus is similar to krishna, buddha. as any enlightend being would know, that the universal truths are applicable to everyone.

the message is what ?

love god/creater/source with your spirit, soul, heart, mind and body.

to love one another, eg love everyone, 1 love.

he said that kingdom of heaven is within, eg the kingdom of heaven is the spirit, soul, its gnosis/enlightenment.

we know that jesus was egalitarian, he treated all the poor people, outcasts, lepers, prostitutes etc as equals

we know he was for social harmony, social justice.

we know that he was against the corrupt priesthood.

we know all this due to the texts, which we know also are a manufactured document.

we know that all texts, on all subjects are manufactured documents, thus what documents/texts, can we honestly say are accurate/truth.

thus what it comes down to is, what we as individuals think, what we think is right.

drakul
09-07-2009, 01:19 PM
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=241

[QUOTE]“The pagan intellectuals reclothed their original ideas in a garment of christian phraseology but bestowed the keys of the symbolism only upon those duly initiated and bound to secrecy”
- Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages
----------------

thus the esoteric elite used the teachings of jesus as a trojan horse, they added their symbolism eg solar symbolism etc onto the life and teachings of jesus.

Yes well done, so this allows the Masons to come back and say - `Look the Bible is full of Masonic symbolism therefore Jesus is a lie and Christianity is just a religion contrived to control you weak sheople and make you their slaves'. (Which ironically is what the ancient Pagans said about Christianity).

remember emperor constantine and the council of nicea.

What about Constantine and the Council of Nicea?

octopusrex
09-07-2009, 04:42 PM
merlin, spot on bro.

i believe that if jesus was depicted accurately, eg a brown man, then racism would die very quickly. as many who are racist use the bible/jesus as their main foundation for their view point. thus if they knew that jesus was brown, then racism would in my view fall, humanity could then view itself as a family, as equal.

racism comes from the elite, its divide and rule.

if one looks at science and scripture, racism is destroyed, thus racism in my view is a temporay state, a state of ignorance.

the magi/wisemen in my view were most probably chaldean/sumeria, as vedic astrogology was the basis for western astroglogy.

i'm indian, a sikh, we celebrate christmas, we see jesus for what he is.

the funny thing, i we had leaflets from the jw, one in english, one in hindi, and jesus looked asiatic/brown skin, lol

Synergy, if Racism came from "the elite" it would not stand a chance. It comes from the hearts of racist men.

synergy777
10-07-2009, 12:53 PM
Synergy, if Racism came from "the elite" it would not stand a chance. It comes from the hearts of racist men.

the elite used the curse of ham eg brown skin, to make whites think they were superior, masters, and thus used the bible/curse of ham to justify it.

which is hilarious, as the people of the bible eg moses, jesus, etc were brown.

bendoon
11-07-2009, 03:11 AM
which is hilarious, as the people of the bible eg moses, jesus, etc were brown.

Thats a very bold claim with no evidence.

3000 years ago white people were in China, ME and North Africa, there is mountains of archaeological evidence.

There is zero evidence to say that Moses or Jesus were brown.

But what people do not know is that during the Antiquity, while Egyptians were building their impressive pyramids and Greeks were fighting for Troy, Western China was in fact inhabited by blond-haired blue-eyed white people.

Now, a group of Chinese archaeologists is attempting to identify a 2,800-year-old mummy of an Caucasian man found in an ancient tomb from Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (Northwest China), another from a long series.

The well-preserved mummy is likely the one of a shaman and has been under examination since it has been found in 2003.

These mummies of the white people that once inhabited Western China were not embalmed, like the Egyptian ones, but they were unwittingly preserved from decay by local climate: extreme summer heat and aridity, bitter winter cold, and salty soil.

When researchers first discovered the mummies, they were astonished by their certain European appearance, with blond or red hair, prominent noses, mustaches and beards, tartan-weave garments, and jaunty feathered caps.



Mummies Prove It: Once, China Was Inhabited by White People (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mummies-Proves-it-Once-China-Was-Inhabited-by-White-People-43301.shtml)

kasalt
29-07-2009, 04:35 AM
The Real Jesus =

http://stardate.org/images/gallery/sun5.jpg


"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2012:29;&version=9;))

synergy777
20-08-2009, 05:28 PM
http://img17.imagehosting.gr/out.php/i912191_jesus-matrix.jpg (http://imagehosting.gr)

Mo0n5tar
20-08-2009, 05:48 PM
There is zero evidence to say that Moses or Jesus were brown.

Didn't Moses put his hand in his robe and pull it out to see it was turned to white?

Mummies Prove It: Once, China Was Inhabited by White People

History also shows that the original inhabitants of Asia were Afrikans, and the early "God's" of the continent were depicted as Negroes.

This new finding nullifies the theory that the ancestors of the Chinese people were “Peking Man” who lived in northern China 400,000 years ago.

Based on DNA analyses of 100,000 samples gathered from around the world, a number of human families evolved in East Africa some 150,000 years ago, said Li Hui, a member of Jin’s team.

About 100,000 years ago, some of those humans began to leave Africa, with some people moving to China via South and Southeast Asia, Li said.
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/ancient-black-chinese-from-east-africa-by-prof-jin-li-2/

You see the Caucasoid never had any spirituality, no great learning, no evolved mathematics or Geometry, the caucasoid's life had been about survival since the end of the 3rd ice age, the root of all schools of spirituality, wisdom and knowledge is africa/Tama Re.

synergy777
20-08-2009, 06:59 PM
personally i think we all lived together,

in egypt for example there paintings of people of all colours, eg dark brown/african, brown/asian and white/european.

thus i think we all had shared history/heritage

just with migration, seclusion etc, connections and teachings were forgotton/hidden,

also the environment started to dictate lifestyle to a greater degree.

after all the druids etc were white, and they were very spiritual.

thus no culture can have a monopoly on spirituality.

also as the planet was warmer, eg england had vineyards, and the weather was mediterrean, thus the inhabitants had brown skin/olive skin, especially as they lived a more outdoors lifestyle.

also with iberian/spanish, celtic and roman people living in england, they were of brown/olive skin anyway.

racism was probably not as important as it is today.

personally the elite used the colour issue for their aims eg empire/slavery, divide and rule, and lets be frank, they fooled and used us real good..

energi
02-10-2009, 05:10 PM
History also shows that the original inhabitants of Asia were Afrikans, and the early "God's" of the continent were depicted as Negroes.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/ancient-black-chinese-from-east-africa-by-prof-jin-li-2/

You see the Caucasoid never had any spirituality, no great learning, no evolved mathematics or Geometry, the caucasoid's life had been about survival since the end of the 3rd ice age, the root of all schools of spirituality, wisdom and knowledge is africa/Tama Re.

If so, what do you think about Rastafari? It's an afrocentric religion...

bendoon
04-10-2009, 12:51 AM
personally i think we all lived together, ..


Then everyone today would be the same colour.

The fact there are people of different colours proves that people kept apart except when forced together by the rulers, through slavery or conquest.

tannah
04-10-2009, 01:02 AM
Then everyone today would be the same colour.

The fact there are people of different colours proves that people kept apart except when forced together by the rulers, through slavery or conquest.

We are all the same "colour", haven't you noticed?

bendoon
04-10-2009, 01:05 AM
We are all the same "colour", haven't you noticed?

Obviously you are colour blind then, a good little citizen of the New World Order.

Me, I'm rebellious.

tannah
04-10-2009, 01:06 AM
Obviously you are colour blind then, a good little citizen of the New World Order.

Me, I'm rebellious.


On the contrary, my eyes see people for who they are.

Oh, and you're not rebellious at all. you feeling exactly how the NWO want you to feel like.

synergy777
27-10-2009, 07:28 PM
http://img20.imagehosting.gr/out.php/i1196319_1corinthians13.jpg

rapunzel
27-10-2009, 08:39 PM
Didn't Moses put his hand in his robe and pull it out to see it was turned to white?

No-one has absolutely white skin. I have very fair skin but as I'm getting on a bit I've noticed a few small patches on my arm which show up as white against my pale skin. It's due to loss of pigment as the body ages. So even "white" people can have white patches on their skin. The fact that Moses hand turned white tells us nothing about the actual colour of his skin.

History also shows that the original inhabitants of Asia were Afrikans, and the early "God's" of the continent were depicted as Negroes.


Not any history I know.

You see the Caucasoid never had any spirituality, no great learning, no evolved mathematics or Geometry, the caucasoid's life had been about survival since the end of the 3rd ice age, the root of all schools of spirituality, wisdom and knowledge is africa/Tama Re.

I wonder who built Stonehenge with its precise alignments to the solstices and equinoxes and Newgrange with its precise alignment to the Winter Solstice. You'll probably say the Moors without any evidence.

The most racist people in the world are the Afro-centrists such as the quote from this site:

"White skin is a form of albinism. It appears that whites have “come into being” through a number of ways: In The Isis Papers p123, Dr. Frances Cress Welsing states “whites are undoubtedly a genetic mutant albino population... from the original Black (hue-man) beings.

Interestingly, the ancient Egyptians recorded the Tamahu, which means created white people. Egyptian writings also refer to whites as Typhonians or People of Seth, both meaning “the devils.” After these “white devils” were first released into the Black community of the Near East 6000 years ago, they caused sever strife, thus the Africans rounded them up, stripped them of everything and exiled them to the caves and hills of the Caucasus Mountains. This explains the sudden appearance of white people in this region. To prevent their escaping Africans installed a series of guarded walls blocking all exits along that area from one sea to the other!

Thus “roping” them off (hence the word Europe). These walls have been witnessed and recorded by many European writers, including Pliny. Thus, totally cut off from civilization, the whites degenerated into uncivilized, nomadic savages. They remained this way for 2000 years until ‘Allah mercifully sent an Egyptian priest named Musa or Moses to civilize them.’ "

Source:
http://www.africanholocaust.net/html_ah/black%20out%20white%20wash.htm

Unfortunately this kind of black racism is all too common.

mind1universe
28-10-2009, 12:20 AM
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_pisean4.html

THE PISCEAN AVATAR: THE JESUS OF ASTROLOGY
(page 4 of 12)

by Marcia Montenegro, former professional astrologer

JESUS AS THE AVATAR OF PISCES

Since Jesus is considered a higher spiritual being, an Avatar, by many astrologers, he embodies the highest aspects of Pisces: universal love, compassion, sacrifice, intuition, servanthood, martyrdom, and spirituality. Jesus represents the birth of non-ego (Pisces) from ego (Aries).

Correlations are made between Jesus and the sign of Pisces. Pisces, meaning fish, is a water sign. There is much water and fish symbology in the Bible stories about Jesus, such as Jesus calling fishermen as disciples, being on the sea several times, calming the storm at sea, helping the disciples catch fish, performing miracles in feeding people with fish, walking on water, his baptism in water, and his talk with Nicodemus about being born again by “water and spirit.”35



Jesus was born of a virgin in fall. September on a full moon (or prominent one)

You need to find out his birth


But they are people who are keeping his birthdate well kept in secret. The December date, the easter date and other holiday dates are all dis info.

His energy is of creation and service to the universe.

Service = Virgo

Creation = Crab/ Cancer.

Cancer fits more of what Jesus was (not Pieces) imo. Cancer represents, mother, water, fertility, creation, the moon intuition, sensitivity, feeling, honesty, nuturing

Virgo represents mother earth, the virgin mary, service, intellect, Mercury, the mind, logic, analyitical mind, compassion. hospitality, understanding, knowledge, skill, Virgo would be opposite pieces.


Virgo the sun
Cancer the moon

Virgo the 7th universe cluster

The moon the bond between you and the mother.

synergy777
28-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Jesus was born of a virgin in fall. September on a full moon (or prominent one)

You need to find out his birth


But they are people who are keeping his birthdate well kept in secret. The December date, the easter date and other holiday dates are all dis info.

His energy is of creation and service to the universe.

Service = Virgo

Creation = Crab/ Cancer.

Cancer fits more of what Jesus was (not Pieces) imo. Cancer represents, mother, water, fertility, creation, the moon intuition, sensitivity, feeling, honesty, nuturing

Virgo represents mother earth, the virgin mary, service, intellect, Mercury, the mind, logic, analyitical mind, compassion. hospitality, understanding, knowledge, skill, Virgo would be opposite pieces.


Virgo the sun
Cancer the moon

Virgo the 7th universe cluster

The moon the bond between you and the mother.

any links, pdfs etc, where do you get this info from, its certainly a different viewpoint. thanks for sharing bro.

--------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.4catholiceducators.com/bible_posters_archive.htm

some great wallpapers/posters.

antihypnosis
28-10-2009, 08:23 PM
http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/jesus_warrior.htm

Enough said!!

synergy777
29-10-2009, 04:35 PM
http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/jesus_warrior.htm

Jesus The Spiritual Warrior by D. M.

Introduction

Jesus The Spiritual Warrior is not about arguments concerning Christian religious beliefs. It does not conform to the so-called "scientific" methods set out by those who arrogantly and ignorantly demand evidence. It does not require the approval of any self-appointed critics. The story of Jesus contained herein will no doubt threaten and upset the traditional and rigid believers, but for those who truly love him, it will comfort, strengthen and offer hope. No matter what denomination or what system of beliefs they follow, this writing will help free them from traps and allow them to better understand and love Jesus. It might initially cause emotional turmoil within some people, but once the old programming is lifted, they will experience peace, hope and joy within.

After the death of Jesus, some disciples formed their own inner circle identifying him as the Messiah. However, neither Jesus nor his initial followers were Christians and Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah which the Jews of his day were expecting, nor did he say that he would rise from the dead to rule over a new world as some of the early Christians proclaimed. Neither did Jesus say that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" as a sacrificial lamb for the sins of the world. Jesus did not say that "the world through him might be saved." Further, he did not state, "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world". Various groups sprang up after Jesus' death. Some of them were initially following John the Baptist. There was a great deal of competition among the various groups claiming to be following the teachings of Jesus. The first followers of Jesus had no affiliation with the cult of Christ which was formed after the death of Jesus.

Many stories about Jesus that are circulating in various circles including the New Age movement are not true. Take for example the story about Mary Magdalene being Jesus' favourite disciple and the story about her witnessing Jesus' physical resurrection in the garden where he was buried. They were mere inventions by the writers and compilers of the gospels. Many Christian leaders proclaim that if there were no resurrection, then the belief in a living Christ would be in vain. In fact, the celebration of Easter associated with the resurrection of the physical body of Jesus is a fraud and is blasphemy. Many things attributed to Jesus, including Jesus' rebuke of his mother about the wine, the feeding of the five thousand, the visit of the three Magi, and Jesus walking on the water are all fictional.

The figure of Mary Magdalene did exist but she was a being of the counterfeit creation and Jesus was aware of this; he was never fooled or trapped by her. Thus, the glorified stories about this woman were merely the handiwork of evil. Likewise, Jesus was aware from the outset that Judas Iscariot was a being of Darkness. There were many reasons why he was included in the selection of the twelve disciples. (Today, yet again, Judas betrayed Jesus for material gain). Events surrounding Jesus' life and Jesus' teaching were created so that the account we have now in the gospels about Jesus and his utterances are mainly prophecy historicized. Thus, when Jesus comes back again in another form that does not fit the profile of the mythological Jesus envisaged by people, most will not recognize him.

In fact, evil deliberately misled by assigning Mary Magdalene as one who was very close to Jesus and familiar with his teachings. Magdalene pushed her way through and tried to take over in the circle of the disciples and followers of Jesus. She was sponsored by the Dark side and hence was able to gain access. Many writings were falsely attributed to her as the author. Some of the writings claimed to be by Magdalene were actually written a long time after her death. Magdalene was not capable of writing spiritual matters and did not write any of the Gnostic writings attributed to her.

Christianity became orthodox when the emperor and the church councils created creeds and canons at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

Jesus, like many great teachers before him, did not put his teachings in writing. All his teachings were carried out in the oral tradition of the ancient world. Oral tradition is unreliable, not to mention that even when teachings are recorded, there will always be those who will misinterpret the teachings, or purposely distort them.

Today many people are embarrassed to admit their interest in spiritual matters because like many issues, whether they are in the church, religious or other institutions or universities, people are often trapped in a perpetual holding state forced upon them by a system of rewards/sanctions. Thus, such a system discouraged and prevented many from doing, investigating or learning what really mattered. They denied their promptings and followed the majority consensus.

Many of the things in the Bible which were supposedly uttered by Jesus, are not the words of Jesus, nor did all of the events ascribed to Jesus actually occur. Take for instance: Jesus walking on water; the feeding of the 5,000; the sermon on the mount; the changing of the water into wine at the wedding in Canna; the virgin birth; and the visit of the three wise men. Likewise, the Apostles' Creed was designed by the church after the death of Jesus to keep the truth about Jesus from the adherents. Christians even today believe the Apostles' Creed to be accurate teachings about Jesus. Also, the Essenes of Qumran were not linked to Christianity in any way.

Christian authors have borrowed ideas from Indian and particularly Buddhist teachings. Hence, not only are there external and internal parallels between the Christian texts and Buddhism, there are also similarities between the Christian faith and Indian beliefs. Some of the old Indian narratives covering various stages of history made their way across Asia Minor, to Greece, Rome and Europe. The oldest writings in the New Testament were recorded only towards the end of the 1st century A.D. It was not until the 4th century A.D., after many theologically-manipulated changes were accomplished, that the New Testament took on its current form as it is presented to us today. Also, the conception of various religious and spiritual ideas were due to the thought-forms being sown in the ether from the astral realm for a ready audience that is affected by the upheaval within human consciousnesses yearning for liberation from Darkness, from suffering, from injustice, poverty, pain and all forms of evil.

References to Reincarnation were removed by the church in the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D. for its own selfish and nefarious purposes a long time after the original gospels were supposed to have been written. It stated that: "Whosoever shall support the mythical doctrine of the pre-existence of the Soul and the consequent wonderful opinion of its return, let him be anathema." Hence, the belief in reincarnation, which was part of most other religious beliefs and myths in antiquity, and in the writings of Plato, only became heretical five centuries after Jesus' death. (Current Buddhists and Hindus maintain the truth about there being reincarnation in their teachings, however, they do not teach that reincarnation is an evil creation. Christians have totally rejected the knowledge of reincarnation even though to reject reincarnation would be contradicting their own Bible where it is stated that Jesus would reappear on Earth.)

Jesus did not command Peter to be the foundation to build his church. He did not ask his disciples to convert the world nor to establish a church or a new religion in his name. Christianity as we know it is wide-spread as it uses Jesus' name of love and power for its wicked causes. Many murders and other crimes are committed in the name of Jesus.

It is no wonder so many "demons" and "robots" claim to channel Jesus and to have visions of him. Why would Jesus of the Light utter things as claimed by the channellers which are contradictory to what Jesus stands for? These channellers can only get responses from phantoms that they have "created" or were "created" by mischievous beings in the astral. Phantoms which attract demonic astral beings into disguising as Jesus do so because they know that the real Jesus is not the "god" of their religion.

Regarding the two competing apostles, Peter and Paul: the Catholic Church traces the beginnings of its church to Peter, while Protestants trace their beginnings back to Paul of Tarsus, an educated Jew living in the Hellenistic world — in the Diaspora. Paul's gospel is not based upon the real life and teachings of Jesus, but on the death of Jesus and Paul's purported vision on the Damascus road. Paul is a being of Darkness and can never represent Jesus' teachings in any way. As mentioned earlier, the first followers of Jesus had no affiliation with the Cult of "Christ" which was responsible for many of the reported utterances by and stories about Jesus.

The Roman Catholic faith commissioned the apostle Peter as the foundation of the "new" church long after the death of Jesus. The Protestants' faith can be traced back to Paul who did not personally know Jesus. Paul's "conversion" was influenced by his Hellenistic background which identified Jesus in the Hellenistic tradition of a dying/rising god similar to the myth of Osiris in the Isis cult. Paul was not interested in the life and teachings of Jesus. As stated before, he was primarily interested in the death of Jesus and the supposed appearance of Jesus to him in a vision reportedly occurring on the Damascus road that became the focal point of the "gospel" according to Paul. Anyone with some inner knowing can see the reasons behind the story of Paul's supposed "conversion" due to his vision of Jesus.

Jesus was not here to "convert" anyone. Nor did he ever tell his disciples to become "fishers of men". He was here to prepare and rescue his own kind. Paul, like many evangelists, "converted" people by abusing the name of Jesus for fame, power, earthly glory, egotistical reasons and other evil purposes. Evil ones want "converts" for the sake of inflating their egos, building up their power, for monetary gain, and suppression and control of others. Power without Love and Light is very dangerous. Evil cannot ever turn to the Light, thus, one cannot "convert" beings of Darkness to beings of Light, and Jesus knew this very well. Hence, he would not approve of his disciples ever attempting to "convert" anyone, much less the whole world, as is stated in the current Bible.

Ontologically, Paul's essence is opposed to Jesus. Thus, it is absolutely ridiculous that Jesus would appear to Paul for the reason of "converting" him so that he can then carry out the teachings of Jesus. This is yet another example of Evil twisting the truth to link up beings of Light with beings of Darkness to further confuse, confound and entrap beings of Light.

The work of the early Christians and the propaganda of Paul and those who hid themselves behind the name of Jesus all contributed to the invention of a marvellous story which resulted in Jesus being known to this day as the founder of a religion that was never his. Similarly, Jesus' name was being included in all types of so-called esoteric teachings as an adept or some other personality.

All organised religions were and are sponsored by the Anunnaki, including Christianity. Unfortunately, work of those High beings of Light who brought down information and various messages to assist true beings who are trapped in this dimension is often used, corrupted and usurped by evil ones who would eventually turn it into a religion so they could enslave true seekers' spirits. In the end, truth and untruth are so mixed that it takes a great deal of insight, intuition, inner work and assistance from the Light to help sort through the rubble and the gems.

Jesus was an Essene (Gnostic) of the inner circle, hence he did not marry nor did he drink alcohol. Therefore, he would not have changed water into wine, nor would his mother, who was also an Essene who respected the inner circle, ever request her son to do such a thing as is recorded in the accepted gospels. Further, Jesus would never speak to his mother with such disrespect as to rudely call her "woman ..." After all, Jesus was very aware and knew that he and his mother were parts of the same Being.

Jesus' final days were spent on speaking up against the temple authorities. Like all Essenes, Jesus was against the priesthood in Jerusalem. Jesus was opposed by some jealous religious authorities in Galilee and Jerusalem. Some of the narratives of Jesus are Christian polemics, apologetics, propaganda and lies. The scriptures were modified many times to correspond to their fulfilment. Many of the stories in the scriptures about Jesus appear to tie in with the prophesies from the Old Testament because they have been deliberately arranged to have them fulfilled.

Many of the supposed teachings of Jesus appear similar to other religions, especially the Buddhist religion because they have been invented by the gospel writers, the early Christian "storytellers" and other religious writers. Why is this so? Because there truly is a conspiracy by Evil to twist what Jesus represents and further confuse the true seekers by using Jesus' name as the driving force for selfish and evil purposes.

Many have attributed the name of "Issa" to Jesus and regarded Issa as a Buddha. The documents supposedly concerning the existence of Issa brought from India to Nepal and from Nepal to Tibet are supposed to imply that Jesus was a Buddhist. Again, this is similar to what the early church has done to Jesus. Gautama Buddha himself did not utter or preach all of the Buddhist teachings that are currently attributed to him. He was seeking "enlightenment" from the existing teachings of his time before he formed his "own" teaching. Buddha did not originate all the teachings attributed to him. Jesus was a Gnostic. What would he be doing with the teachings of Buddha or those associated with Buddha when Jesus knew very well that his essence and the essence of Buddha are opposites?

Many narratives about Jesus' childhood and teachings are borrowings from India and especially from Buddhist tradition. Even from the time of King Solomon, the Jews had contact with India. After the Babylonian captivity, the Jews were influenced by Persian and Indian ideas. At the time of Jesus, Indian and Buddhist teachings were well-known and practised in the Hellenistic world and the area close to Palestine which was comprised of Judea, Samaria and Galilee in those days. There are many borrowings from other religions about the story of Jesus also. For example, the depiction of Christ as a good shepherd and proclaimer of a new religion of love and redemption derives from a Hindu legend about a shepherd god. This legend has also been adopted by various other cultures throughout the world.

Jesus is associated with the concept of the Trinity — God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The concept and definition of the "Trinity of God" is so distorted and manipulated that unless one moves away from the accepted traditional definition which is promoted by the established religions, one cannot see through the falsehood. In fact, the whole concept of the "Trinity of God" is a human invention.

I.The Unknown Jesus

Many know Jesus superficially as the mythical and legendary Jesus of Christian orthodoxy and other "doxies" and cults. Religions always tend to make god in the image of man, an aggrandized image, because religions are created by the Anunnaki, but in the end, it is always a god with human qualities. Whatever the image that humans have created for their god, even if to our physical eye, it appears ugly, horrible or whether it appears a caricature or disdainful, there is always within it the presence of the thing that it represents. There is always someone, a priest or priestess, an initiate or follower, who has the power and who draws the force, the presence within and keeps it alive. The presence is real. It is the presence that is within an idol, the image which people worship.

Human beings created "god" with human qualities. This is what makes it possible for people to get hold of god and give him a satisfactory beating, when their prayers are not answered or when they feel let down, but it is the makers who are the fools, who treat god as they would treat a human enemy. Likewise, they have turned Jesus into some sort of man-made religious figure and have assigned him with qualities, roles and duties that humans want Jesus to have. Therefore Jesus becomes a suitable saviour in their eyes. They would not want to really know what Jesus came to Earth for, what his actual role was, or how he would perform it. The current Bible is an assembly of writings by various ones who would dare to do these acts even though they had never met or known Jesus.

Jesus was not considered successful in the way this materialistic world would regard as marks of success, whether in his day or at this present time. Instead, he was an ordinary man, born of peasant parents and was later unjustly crucified on a cross as a common criminal.

Jesus was far ahead of his time. His vision and his teachings gave a glimpse into other realities beyond this physical one. Many horrendous frauds, crimes, murders and massacres have been committed in his name over the centuries, not because the perpetrators really love Jesus, but because of their selfish motives and evilness. Many have been enslaved by a man-made version of Christ imposed upon them by man-made rules and rigid, selfish legacy. The very slavery those who falsely preached in his name is the very slavery they imposed upon their converts and believers.

The very fictionally-embellished gospels that proclaim to preach Christ are ironically the very things that impede any true seeker of Light from knowing the real Christ even though they are mixed with some truth. Fundamentally, half-truths are at least as dangerous, destructive and misleading as untruths.

Jesus, in every one of his "incarnations" as a "walk-in", always follows the Anti-Christ about. He did it two thousand years ago and he does it today.

II.The Jesus Of Myths

Who was Jesus? The historical Jesus was very different from what people are taught to believe. The Jesus generally known to people today is the Jesus people over the centuries have enshrined in their imaginations, creeds and cultures. The modern Jesus was a scholarly reconstruction during the nineteenth century. Bearing in mind that no truth is immune to critical or hostile criticism and attack, what I am about to present here may not meet the approval of everyone.

What people generally know about Jesus of Nazareth comes mainly from the New Testament. It must be mentioned from the outset that no parts of any books of the New Testament are older than 125 A.D., and none of the Christian writings were written after 200 A.D. Most of the writings were translations from other languages, long after Jesus' death. Hence, inaccuracies in interpretation, personal conviction and deliberate embellishments could have occurred and did.

The discovery of the Qumran scrolls near the Dead Sea in 1947 and the subsequent publication of the Qumran literature in this century have provided new insights into the conceptual world of an important Jewish sect known as the Essenes, shortly before the composition of the New Testament writings. The Qumran documents, dated to the second century B.C. are older than the copies of the Hebrew Bible. They reveal the influences that shaped the environment in Jesus' time. Discoveries at Nag Hammadi in Egypt in 1946 have provided new insights into the political, social and religious climate of those bygone times. The Coptic texts available now are dated at the earliest from the 5th to the 7th century A.D. The English version of the gospels we have now were originally translated from Greek.

Contrary to common belief, Christianity as we know it did not originate with Jesus Christ, nor did the first church start with a blessing from Jesus. The first Christians merely used his name, and his death, as a pretext for a new religion that does not truly represent the truth about him or his teachings. There are numerous fictional embellishments and the invention of stories and sayings wrongly imputed to Jesus in the gospels and in the Qumran documents. The gospels were written at least 300 years after the death of Jesus. Like the so-called authors of the texts who often did not write what appears in the New and Old Testaments, Jesus too, was said to have uttered certain words that appear in the gospels which he never spoke. Jesus did not say that the world was going to end immediately. He did not say repent. He did not practise baptism. The baptism story about him is false. He did not initiate the Eucharist although he did have a last meal with the inner circle of his faithful ones. The gospels, including those recently discovered writings found in Qumran, and the Nag Hammadi Library were written by people who had no first-hand contact with Jesus, and they were written many years after the death of Jesus. All of these writings contain their own distortions due to misunderstandings, mistranslations, embellishments, or deliberate editings.

Christianity assumed its orthodoxy under the decisions of the Roman emperor and the church councils in the fourth century by introducing various creeds and canons to the church. Clearly, the orthodoxy of the early church was intensely associated with political and other pressures.

By using the pesher method, a technique whereby texts were cited and then rewritten and reinterpreted in ways quite different from the original sense, the writers and compilers of various texts were able to invent, interpret or embellish stories which could be tailored to specific purpose or prophecy. However, it was an acceptable practice in those days. Hence, various texts were cited from different sources and then rewritten and reinterpreted according to the writer's personal convictions.

This was the method the writers of the scripture used to ensure that the scriptures were kept timely and relevant and that what was recorded in the Old Testament found fulfilment in the New Testament, thereby creating an aura of authenticity and credibility.

This practice of borrowing from others and using as one's own, giving the necessary modifications and twists to suit the occasion, was not a practice of antiquity alone. In fact, it continued right up until the nineteenth century. The claim made by the Catholic church of indisputable authority based on its position which can be traced back in an unbroken line to the time of Jesus in the case of the New Testament, and to the very cradle of civilization before David, Moses, Abraham and so on, in the case of the Old Testament, is false. Indeed, the claim of absolute authenticity of the Bible is spurious — there is no unbroken line linking the present day Bible to the time of Jesus. The oldest records belong to the 4th century.

Clearly, the current Bible is a collection of various articles from various sources which were rewritten, perverted, plagiarized, distorted and confused, added to, deleted and abused in order to suit the aims of the Church hierarchy.

III.The Essenes

Before we embark on the story of historical and metaphysical Jesus, it is important to know something of the background surrounding the time before and after the birth of Jesus in order to gain a better understanding of the spiritual, political and social climate and influence into which Jesus was born. As Jesus' parents were Essenes we need to look at the historical and spiritual background concerning this Gnostic Jewish group.

The Essene movement was first started in Mesopotamia and came to Palestine in the first half of the second century B.C. Zoroastrian religious concepts were known to the Jews living in Babylon during their exile before the second century B.C. The Jews who had been in Babylon and formed the original Essene community there, lived for many years in a Zoroaster milieu. Their assimilation of Iranian religious thought, in particular the most significant concept of the conflict between the two spirits, was reflected in the Essene teaching about the conflict between the Angel of Light (Good) and the Angel of Darkness (Evil) that forms the basis for the particular form of dualism found in Qumran literature. The dualism in the Essene writings — as in early Zoroastrianism — is not one of absolute dualism for in both, the balance is heavily weighted on the side of the good spirit.

Thus, the Essenes' concept of sons of Light and sons of Darkness is due to the influence of Iranian religious thought on the tenets and beliefs of the community which later settled at Sekhakha (the ancient name for Qumran) after the victories of the Maccabees.

Hence, the relationship between the literature of the Essenes and Iranian religious thought is extensive, as is their particular form of dualism, their intense striking for purity, their interest in angelology and demonology, their eschatology and the idea of judgement and those relating to the Spirit of Light and the Spirit of Darkness.

4Q`Amram (of Qumran literature) is the earliest extant example of a text containing a story of the war between the good and bad angels for possession of a human soul. In later literature, this theme is represented in both Jewish and Christian sources dating from the first century A.D.

By the time 4Q`Amram (dated early to mid-second century B.C.) was being composed, under the influence of Zoroastrian dualistic spirit world of Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, a major development had occurred in certain Jewish circles in the concept of Satan and the advocate angel. By that time the two biblical figures had become the rulers of two worlds:

* Satan, referred to as Belial, was the ruler of the world of Darkness and Evil;

* The advocate angel, generally referred to the angel Michael as the ruler of the world of Light and Goodness.


Indeed, the Essene teachings, of the division of humanity into Light-Darkness duality, was borrowed directly from Iran because until the time of composition of the Essene writings there was no record of a doctrine of two spirits in Jewish literature. Clearly, post-exilic influence of Iranian religious ideas on Judaism is evidential — Iranian influence in Qumran literature is undeniable! In spite of some differences in the use of symbolisms from the time before and after Zoroaster, the fundamental message remains the same.

The conceptual framework behind the Essenes' ideas about the two spirits originated with the teachings found in the earliest writings of Zoroaster himself and considerably developed in later Zoroastrian thought. In the Essene writings, the spirits of Light and Darkness resembling the teaching of the Zoroastrian twins are known as Michael and Belial and as Melchizedek and Melchírea (all Hebrew names) — the heavenly leaders of the forces of Good and Evil. Consequently, the Melchizedek is understood as each of these figures of Light. Though the texts that mention Melchizedek and Melchírea are scarce, they are important ones because of the information they provide on the dualistic and eschatological outlook of the Essene community.

The Essene teaching advocates the teaching of the spiritual realms of Light and Darkness which permeates human existence to the extent that all human beings are divided into sons of Light and sons of Darkness.

Human existence is seen as a constant struggle between the opposing forces of Good and Evil and culminates in the eschatological war waged between these two forces which results in the final victory of the Light. It is in this context that the two angelic beings, called the watchers appeared in the text of 4Q`Amram.

The Essenes were divided into three ranks, ranging from the common members (outer circle) to the lower and higher priests (inner circle). The higher priestly rank observed the strictest discipline while the common members were allowed to be involved in certain worldly activities such as marriage, which the priestly rank were forbidden to participate in. Thus, the highest order of Essenes lived a monastic life of celibacy and asceticism and living a life of celibacy was regarded as the highest way of life for the Essenes, for marriage and sex were considered to be distractions. This is in line with the Gnostic belief that propagation allowed the evil demiurge to exploit the beings of Light and bind them to Darkness.

The Essenes as a community lived a life away from the world so to speak, sharing community property, owning nothing, helping one another as a community in the area of child care and other activities such as involvement in a craft for mutual benefit. The Essenes were against the killing and eating of animals. Primarily, they dedicated their lives to God. The Essenes order practised initiations and rituals and knew the ancient wisdom like the Zoroastrians before them did.

IV.Jesus' Background

Jesus was born to a peasant Hebrew family in Galilee during the reign of Augustus Caesar. His native tongue was Aramaic, although he was conversant in Greek and other languages and dialects. His parents were Joseph and Mary, who were both practising Essenes. Joseph was a carpenter by trade, which does not imply that he built furniture, but instead would indicate that he would do handyman's work of a labouring nature. The Essenes were a Jewish Gnostic sect with their home at Qumran, which was destroyed during the first Roman-Jewish war.

The reason for assigning Jesus' birthplace to Bethlehem in the gospels is for convenience in fulfilling an ancient prophecy that the Messiah of King David's lineage would be born in Bethlehem. Jesus' home was near a Greco-Roman city called Sepphoris. He was not of a virgin birth. He was second born in a family of six children, which included five boys and one girl. His brother James and his sister Miriam played an important role in his life then, as they again do in this life.

He was not born in a manger, nor did any wise men visit Mary and Joseph when Jesus was born. Had these wise men actually visited bearing gifts as stated in gospels they would have made Jesus' parents quite wealthy. Neither were there any shepherds who saw the guiding "star" or who were told by angels that the son of God was born in a manger. There was no massacre of Jewish male infants and no flight to Egypt by Mary and Joseph as recorded in the Bible. In fact, Jesus was born quietly and his birth was unannounced so that he could avoid suspicion from the opposing force.

Although Jesus was not born into a priestly class, his mother's family had connections which made it possible for him to have the opportunity to learn the ancient Jewish texts at an early age. He was familiar with the Vedic Hymns and the Avesta from his mother, who had learned extensive knowledge from the connections her family had. Being extremely intelligent and being guided by the Divine Light within him, he was able to make great progress within a short time.

There was immense rebellion and harsh suppression by the ruling elite of Jesus' time. Hence, at an early age, Jesus was exposed to such scenes and was sensitive to injustice, oppression of the poor and the disadvantaged, and the suffering and exploitation around him.

He was very opposed to animal sacrifice and the unjust distinction of classes in the society of his time. He had profound compassion for suffering human beings and animals. He was saddened and empathetic towards the animals as they pathetically bleated in terror as they were being sacrificed for religious purposes: he was also greatly impacted as birds and other animals pleaded before being slaughtered for food. He was nauseated by the awful stench that came from burning flesh.

Jesus was against people defiling the temples of worship by such acts as having money-changers at the doors and selling worldly goods and providing inappropriate entertainment there. This is why he turned over the money-changers' tables and rebuked them all. This was done shortly after he rejected the fig tree, which represented the entire evil creation. Jesus was spared of punishment for the incident involving the money-changers only because of the intervention of a Roman nobleman who was in fact one of the "Twelve Sisters" "incarnated" (affectionately known as Burnley Naylor in the 20th century). In esoteric terms, the "temple" is where your inner being resides which should be respected and honoured. The physical temples built by humankind are only symbolic representations of the true "temples", however, the polluting of the physical temples has a polluting effect on the real "temples" of the consciousnesses of beings of Light. Jesus personalised a strict inner discipline. He showed people that it could be done with sincerity, perseverance and faith in the Divine. Jesus warned true beings of the traps of glitters of this material world which will lure many true beings from their Divine path.

His mother Mary inwardly sensed that Jesus was no ordinary child. She sensed the divine guidance during the conception, growth and nurturing of Jesus. She intuitively knew that Jesus had a divine mission. Mary could see purity and light surrounding her child and she paid meticulous attention in nurturing him physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. It gave Mary great pleasure in watching Jesus walking through the courtyard of their home towards her and greeting her lovingly with a broad smile as he proceeded to join her and members of the family for the evening meal. She was distinctly aware of the events which awaited Jesus in the not too distant years. She knew that her heart would be pierced with sorrow one day.

It should be mentioned here that the being who is Jesus was earlier in the physical body of Mary, his mother, until Jesus attained the age of twelve. At that point, the physical body of Mary was thereafter occupied by a "walk-in" who is the same being who occupied the physical body of Jesus until that point.

As stated above, something very special happened to the physical body of Jesus when he was about twelve years of age. A-itu the Eternal Flame descended upon the physical body of Jesus and he was adorned with Divine Spirit. (This is the point in time when the consciousness in the physical body of Mary swapped with the consciousness in the physical body of Jesus).

The Divine Spirit guided and nurtured Jesus throughout the rest of his life. Although he spent much of his time in strict inner discipline, he felt "impressed" to travel to other lands for further instructions and re-awakening. He knew that he had an important Divine Mission to accomplish in his lifetime. There was a sense of urgency with timing.

Jesus grew up in a Greek speaking world, just a few miles from a large Hellenistic city. He was a happy child surrounded with a lot of love and compassion and by loving people in his family and the community around him. Jesus grew up as a "normal" Essene until he was twelve when the spirit of A-itu, the Eternal Flame touched him. From then on, personal conflict with John the Baptist and with the corrupted teachings slowly developed. He was aware of various sectarian differences existing in the Essene community in which he was reared. He hoped to reveal new teachings that would be incorporated with the salient and spiritual aspects of the duality and other various factions of Essenes' teachings which were given by the Light through Divine Messengers before him, while at the same time removing the man-made and corrupted aspects that had polluted the Gnostic Truth.

Thus, with his mother's blessings, at a very young age by our modern standards, Jesus was guided by the Spirit of A-itu to quietly disappear from his home. He took a ride with a merchant from Jerusalem who knew his parents. Together with the merchant and others, he travelled to India. By this time, he was a wise young man (by the days of old) with a gift of words. He was about fourteen when he first beheld the buzzing city of Gujarat. There, Jesus stayed in various towns and villages doing odd jobs and quietly observing and learning the local spiritual beliefs of the people of this new land. All the time, he was observing and taking things in and noting the corruption of Truth by agents of Darkness. During his travels he kept in communication with his home through merchants who travelled from India to Jerusalem and back. While in India, Jesus travelled to many lands but his main stops were at Gujarat, Jaganneth, Benares, Nepal and Lhasa in Tibet. Jesus further studied the Vedas and other ancient texts from various cultures. One of the many things that he was opposed to was the caste system in India and the mistreatment of women there and elsewhere.

While travelling, Jesus visited many places abroad in Asia, Greece and Africa. In India, he studied the works of Buddha (Prince Siddhartha Gautama, called the Buddha) who lived over 500 years before him and was able to sort out the distortions of Buddha's teaching from the fundamental Gnostic truth. He was aware that Buddha adopted the Gnostic view of the "soul" being trapped in the material body which was a prison for it, that all sufferings in this world were due to human desires, that if human beings could detach themselves from such desires they could break the cycle of rebirth to achieve nirvana (liberation from rebirth and from the entrapment in matter).

Many people think that Jesus' teachings are based upon Buddhist principles. This is not so. Gautama Buddha himself was influenced by a mixture of Gnostic and other teachings of his time. Even though Buddha supposedly taught beautiful principles, they were actually empty words that he had purloined from other sources. Things are not always what they appear to be in this Virtual Reality. Likewise, Buddha, in spite of his apparent struggle for spirituality, for truth, for liberation from suffering and the depiction of him being a compassionate being are deceptions by the Buddha. This is so because Buddha is a High Being of Darkness whose mission was to corrupt and blind the seekers of truth. It is another case of a wolf in sheep's skin. Buddha is one of the many incarnations (faces) of the Anti-Christ. The apparent Light in him was due to the attachment of the Light of one of the "Twelve Sisters" in him.

Buddha's teachings were not recorded until 500 years after his death. Oral tradition is unreliable, not to mention that even when teachings are recorded there will always be those who will misinterpret it, embellish it to give it apparent authenticity, mysticism, prophetic fulfilment, or to purposely distort it. Such is the common experience in this dimension of untruth, of evil. This is done even to the "teachings" of the Anti-Christ.

Many of the sayings of Jesus are similar to the sayings of Buddha not because Jesus was a Buddhist nor that he copied Buddha's teachings but due to human manipulation using the pesher method which allows many gaps to be filled and things added and edited to make them look similar and to fulfil prophecies invented by men. Even the records of Jesus' life in India and Tibet were mostly distortions and myths. It is not uncommon for apparently well-meaning people to "invent" stories of heroes or well-respected figures to encourage or inspire others. Jesus was well respected and loved by many in his sojourn in the East even though he had enemies also. Further, the Buddha being was not the same being "incarnated" previously as Zoroaster. Zoroaster was the "incarnation" of one of the "Sisters".

Jesus also studied the art of healing and various Hindu disciplines. It was not uncommon to find him engaging in discussions with Indian priests and teaching amongst the people he lived with. As he travelled from village to village, he was very aware of the injustices, sufferings and exploitations around him hovering like vultures ever ready to devour the oppressed, the disadvantaged and the poor. He spoke with great wisdom, so much so that some of the people who had met him and listened to his teaching thought he was Buddha incarnated. (Which is quite similar to Herod thinking that Jesus was John the Baptist resurrected — and equally wrong — however John the Baptist and Buddha are one and the same being, as are Mohammed and Krishna. Always remember, however, that all of the above-named individuals had attached to them one of the "Twelve Sisters" which would give them the occasional appearance of Divinity.)

Jesus was not short of criticism against the injustices of the caste system in India. He saw through the hypocrisy and arrogance of the Brahmin class and the humiliation and oppression of the "untouchables" — the lowest class. He was critical of the Brahmin rites as he could see the illusions and evilness behind them. One of the highlights of his stay in India was meeting an Indian sage who was ontologically intimately connected to him. This Indian sage who resided in a small village in the hills of the Himalayas was none other than Babaji of Haidakhan. They both recognised each other as ontological beings outside this dimension and beyond. This event further facilitated the spiritual progress and work of both beings (Jesus and Babaji).

Jesus visited and engaged in debates and discussions on a wide range of subjects with the various religious teachers in the countries he spent time in. Some of these were happy with his discourses, others rejected him outright with intense hate and jealousy.

One day he received a message from his Higher-Self, A-itu (the Eternal Flame), that it was time to return to his homeland to begin his "real work" which was to commence in Galilee. Hence, he returned to his homeland shortly after.

Jesus was about thirty years old when he made preparation for the beginning of his real public work. He spent many days in the desert, isolating himself from all humans and fasting and meditating for days. During that time he received many instructions from his Higher Self which he was to carry out. He told his mother about his Divine mission and received her blessings. His father Joseph, who Jesus was very close to, had since passed away while he was in India.

Most of the Essenes were supportive of him even though he was to start his own teaching. Jesus was given his own message. His Divine message went beyond that of the Essenes though his central Gnostic theme remained the same as their undistorted portions of their message because the messages came from the same Source. His first official teaching was held in his own home amongst his family members and some Essene friends of the family.

Subsequently, he preached to the people in Qumran who called themselves "the Poor". In his own teachings, amongst other things, Jesus rejected strict asceticism (which often is an outward display of ego) and baptism. In his ministry, Jesus was confronted by people filled with messianic fanaticism. This often caused misunderstanding, confusion and resentment among the unawares when Jesus rejected people's hopes that he might fulfil their expectations of that time as a liberator from the Roman rule. The Christ conceived of by Paul is a pre-existent divine being who takes on a human body to save humankind from the powers of sin, law and death. Others view Christ as the incarnation of Logos. In reality, Christ is the Ultimate — the Divine Mother Absolute — A-itu, the Eternal Flame.

Jesus stressed the simplicity of life to combat the temptations and beguilement of evil. He often taught in parables to illustrate his point. His main message was about the two Natures (Principles) — of Light and Darkness — Good and Evil. He was awakening people to the fact that the creator of this world was not the true God but an evil usurper; that there were two creations; and that those of the true Divine creation had been trapped in this material world ever since the take-over by Evil which resulted in a continuous battle of Good and Evil in humankind ever since.

He urged those who would listen to him to be vigilant against the falsehood of the Prince of Darkness of this world which was symbolically represented by Satan or the Devil.

He healed the sick and exorcised those who were possessed by evil spirits. He taught about the end time when Light would proclaim victory over Evil and guided his followers on the path of Light. He stressed the importance of turning within to seek the Divine Truth which alone could liberate them from the control of Evil.

Jesus condemned the hypocrisy and arrogance of the Pharisees and Sadducees as he did the Brahmin priests in India. This inevitably incurred their wrath. But what he said was true and he was there to expose falsehood. As Jesus' popularity soared, and as he became more vocal and open in his exposure of evil, those of evil, in particular the Pharisees and the Sadducees were jealous towards him and enraged by his truth. Until then, no one dared speak so passionately against them.

For various reasons, these enemies of Jesus plotted to get rid of him. Jesus and Mary knew the day would come when he (Jesus) would be murdered by the archons of Evil, but they knew that until it was time for him to return to the Mother-Father Spirit, he would not be harmed. Like all good mothers who loved their children, Mary knew that the day would come when her heart would be pierced by the sorrow of watching as her son suffered unjustly and horrendously in the hands of evil beings. She knew the time for that was drawing nearer each day. Her energy supported Jesus as he diligently spread the Divine message from place to place.

A few months after the commencement of his public work, Jesus had gathered a small group of men and women who had volunteered to assist with organising the meeting place, provision of food and lodging and other day to day domestic activities. His work attracted people of both essences for diverse reasons. Superficially those of the counterfeit creation who were following him agreed with his teaching and some even appeared to embrace it ardently.

However, on the energy level, they were not sincere. Such ones almost always appear amongst any given group of any messengers of Light and they always try to distort the truth. There was no exception in Jesus' case. These evil ones purposely distorted his teachings and called his teaching heresy. Jesus was given his own teaching. He did not need the approval of the priestly class who regarded themselves as the experts on Divine revelation. These evil ones always create a mess for the beings of Light whenever they take over as a representative of the Light.

Can you envisage an enemy of Light acting as teacher of Light? Undoubtedly, such one will lead others astray by giving them the untruth. This practice of hi-jacking occurred after Jesus' death and continues even until the present time. It will continue to operate in that evil manner until evil is totally annihilated, for evil always corrupts if it is allowed to continue.

Contrary to the image constructed by the compilers of the gospels, Jesus was an eloquently out-spoken man. He did not tell his followers to love their enemies or to turn the other cheek to them. He did not teach that marriage was sacred and should be observed at all costs. Jesus never advocated that God put couples together in marriage. Nor did he say what God has put together, let no man put asunder. His enemies twisted what he said to suit themselves. The work that Jesus performed in the world for the Gnostics (the beings of Light) is revelation, for the most part, rather than redemption in the sense in which mainstream Christianity identified his work.

Jesus' revelation involved imparting secret knowledge, the Nous, especially during that time prior to his ascent into the heavenly region of Light. He preached about the dangers of compromising with Darkness; and encouraged his followers to be ongoing warriors for the Light. He warned them of the many disguises of evil and the traps that could occur in a marriage and encouraged those who could, to remain celibate. For this he was accused of being a homosexual.

He disregarded the rules that the "unclean" persons — gentiles, the physically handicapped, women, and married men, were barred from communion and from being initiated into the full monastic life. Most importantly, he showed them the way by his own examples in words, thoughts, and actions. Thus, his appearance in the world and his presence among his followers brought enlightenment to his true disciples. Enlightenment is understood as knowledge of one's self as belonging to an other-worldly order of Divine origin and self-sufficiency.

The Gnostic Christ did not come to the world to save it or to forgive sins, or to die for the sins of this world, but he came instead to collect the Light beings, awaken the true beings among humankind to their ignorance of their true spiritual origin, and prepare the way and bring them home to the heavenly world of Light. He did not seek to prepare the minds of people for the coming of the new world teacher in the Aquarian Age as the New Agers believe. Also, Jesus is not associated in any way with the one who is currently referred to as "Lord Maitreya", who is in fact a very Dark being.

As the energy built up around Jesus, his work became more and more intense and so was the retaliation from evil — like a big rock being thrown into the water, the ripples spread out and debris and mud are stirred to the surface. At last the day had arrived when Jesus was delivered to his enemies. The Pharisees who themselves were people of the Lie referred to him and his teachings as heretical and called him "the Man of a Lie". This sounds familiar when we look at how the church fathers looked upon all teachings different from theirs as heresies and took steps to silence those who dared differ from their teaching. The archons and minions of Evil always lie against the messengers and followers of the Light in order to frustrate, block and destroy them. This trait of Evil has never deviated from time immemorial. In all probability, if Jesus were to appear in any body and identify herself/himself as Jesus Christ to the current leaders of the major Christian churches, they would persecute her/him anew just like the Pharisees and Sadducees of old. This is because the leaders of the churches stand to lose the most with the return of Jesus.

Jesus lived a life of celibacy right till the end of his physical life when he was crucified on the cross at the age of thirty-three. He had an extremely strong, yet slender body. He was not big, but was a very imposing figure. His hair was dark, slightly wavy, and he wore it at shoulder length. There was no trial before Pontius Pilate as the gospels would have us believe. Jesus, however, was mercilessly tortured, humiliated and spat upon before he was murdered. The denial by Peter never took place and neither did Jesus heal the man whose ear was cut off.

Although it appears that Jesus was put to death for political-religious reasons, those are only physical reasons. It was the Pharisees and the Sadducees who instigated the murder of Jesus. Under the jurisdiction and order of Pontius Pilate with the concurrence of high Judean officials who were jealous of Jesus and who were threatened by his outspoken words against them, Jesus was finally delivered to the evil ones and was executed. However, on the energy level, the opposing force was attempting to kill Jesus because they suspected that he was the one sent to lead the mission of Correction of the Celestial Error. But, Jesus was ready to return "Home" because he had laid all the groundwork that was required for the future, when he would return again to conclude the Correction when the time was right. The time is now!

Jesus was punished for speaking the Truth and for being a champion for those who were exploited by the system. Crucifixion is a punishment widely practised in antiquity as a deliberate humiliation and punishment and deterrent. Jesus was delivered to King Herod — an Evil Being, who is like a "spiritual twin" to John the Baptist. When Jesus was crucified his mother, his brother James and his sister Miriam were nearby. King Herod was so threatened by Jesus (not so much because of political differences, but primarily due to their opposite ontologies) that Herod personally went to the cross to mock Jesus and make certain that he died.

When Mary was kneeling near the cross while Jesus suffered and was dying, she was overwhelmed with sadness and leaned forward to touch her son's feet. Her heart was pierced with sorrow. While touching Jesus' feet, Herod Antipas himself came up to her and accosted her with a whip that had many tails and feathers on the handle. He was also adorned in white-feathered attire. This was a most unusual appearance at an execution, but he wanted to make certain that Jesus was killed and in his sick mind, he wanted to watch Jesus die. As he hit Mary, he shouted, "Woman! Get out of here!"

Jesus was crucified alone. There were no others on crosses near him. The story of Barabbas associated with the crucifixion of Jesus was false. There was never an attempt to free Jesus by Pilate, nor did the crowd influence Pilate to free Barabbas instead of Jesus. The site was at a very ordinary spot, outside the city, which has been referred to as Golgotha. As Jesus' physical body laid hanging on the cross with blood streaming all over his body, his spirit hovered above him looking down at the blood-stained body. Mary and her family buried Jesus soon after his death. No angel appeared at his tomb, and Mary Magdalene was never near Jesus' tomb. There is no historical truthfulness in the physical resurrection of Jesus. Jesus would not resurrect a physical body that was created by Darkness (Matter).

Although there was no physical resurrection, after his death the spirit-body of Jesus was first "seen" by his brother James (who later incarnated as Edgar Cayce) and later by others.

The belief that Jesus came to this world to save humanity by redeeming the negative karma (Sanskrit word for action) of humanity (or paying the debt of humanity's Sin) through his death is terribly flawed. The truth is, he came to awaken true beings to the Mother-Father Light within them — and for this the evil beings murdered him.

Karma is understood as being a just law of cause and effect. Unfortunately this is not true. Karma is not a just system. Karma is evil. Few people know or suspect that karma is evil. The true God of Light did not impose such an evil system on this planet or anywhere else. Under this law, any one who incarnates on this plane has to abide by the law. It is not just and impersonal at all. It is imposed by Evil to exploit, manipulate and control humans. Contrary to what the Cosmic wants us to believe, this law is unjustly applied with favouritism. It was designed in such a way that in total, true beings were unjustly punished. It is a way of trapping people in a no-win situation for its own evil, selfish purpose.

Indeed, most people do not suspect that karma is a perfect trap set up by the Cosmic (the Usurper) to bring people back again and again through the wheels of incarnation. Misfortune is believed to be bad deeds done in a previous or present incarnation which is now catching up with the victim of misfortune and conversely, good fortune is regarded as a reward for past good deeds. Hence, people are taught not to interfere with karma.

The truth is, all suffering results in the production of emotional energy which prospers the Cosmic. The Cosmic depends on a constant supply of energy for its creation. In every lifetime mistakes are made so retribution according to this law of karma is never ending! Thus, like all the rest, everyone is trapped. How can karma be fair when so many factors, such as programming are dictating the actions of people? Fortunately the Board of Karma which dispenses it is finished. It appears to be continuing at present because of "unseen computers" which have been programmed to function and communicate with those down here just as the Lords of Karma did.

As stated earlier, shortly after Jesus' death he appeared in the etheric form to James and later to Mary, his mother and others who were close to him. Not long after Jesus' death, Mary, in taking the advice Jesus gave her before his death, left for India with a few trusted followers. There, she was welcomed by Babaji (the Babaji of Haidakhan of this century) with whom Jesus had spent some happy times previously in the Himalayas.

Jesus' departing words to his disciples were: "The Spirit of the Eternal Flame lives in all true Divine beings."

The apocalyptic phenomenon is a much misunderstood matter. Often people associate Christ's message as an apocalyptic message. But Jesus' message is about awakening the trapped beings who have forgotten their divine identity and preparing them for the time when they can be evacuated and returned to their original Divine abode. "Salvation" does not depend on physical destruction or physical resurrection.

It is not necessarily true that all those who advocate the apocalyptic solution to sufferings in life are seeking vindication for their mistreatment in this life and punishment for the wicked in the next world as some claim.

V.Jesus and John the Baptist: read more at the link:
http://www.xeeatwelve.net/articles/jesus_warrior.htm

lightgiver
30-10-2009, 12:38 AM
How much truth to this ?

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_11992.shtml

mind1universe
30-10-2009, 04:45 AM
The anointed one falls in as the nature falls in Autum. The Cristos gathers you through the storm. For you to bear fruit for the season's to come.

It's all around you. You dnn't need books or links.

But I would greatly respect if you did the work yourself. If you truly want to know his birthdate you will find out. I don't think it's really important. But the spring and holiday dates are deliberate "off days". They are celebrations of the matrix. Xmas = keep spending money and worship a false messiah santa Claus (which mind you is not real) Easter the celebration of his return = eat chocolate or better still get people to assume he was born on this day rather than xmas. The other is halloween. It's hilarious when you think about it.

But to be honest it's pretty obvious to what day he was born on.

synergy777
25-02-2010, 01:44 PM
http://www.wisdomofjesus.net/

One of the most influential human beings of all times? The founder of Christianity? A messiah or savior sent by God to redeem humanity of its sins? What were His teachings? Is our knowledge of Jesus limited to what is recorded in the Bible? What has modern historical research to say about what Jesus did and taught? Have there been other spiritual masters in India whose teachings are similar to those of Jesus? If so, what light can they shed on the teachings of Jesus?

http://www.wisdomofjesus.net/wisdom-of-jesus.pdf

phildee3
25-02-2010, 06:47 PM
How much truth to this ?

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_11992.shtml



Irrelevent!

"Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." Matthew 12:48-50

dedicate
25-02-2010, 07:09 PM
It is irrelevent. ie. Barrabas story never really happend. But it really happens!

phildee3
25-02-2010, 08:12 PM
It is irrelevent. ie. Barrabas story never really happend. But it really happens!

You mean it's all about archetypes?
Yes - archetypes are more real than historical characters because they precede them as their models.

dedicate
25-02-2010, 11:38 PM
I know what you mean by archetypes. But I'm thinking in terms of practicallity..

Like when the Law makes deals and witness protection with mafia guys, killers, theives. They let them go. Then people like the Browns who fight the system in any way are hung out to dry.

Maybe they pay off the people to go along with this in various subtle ways too.., to give their voice to this.. and they do say, "Give us Barrabas."



Give us Barrabas.. a poem.

Give us Football and phooseball,,, whip the poor into submission
Give us Johnson or Nixon and to hell with Kennedy (John)
Drop the bombs on Persia Who needs sovereign rights and dignity!
Give us oil and let the planet die!

We will cheer your dark wars and your CIA ops,, honor the heroes.
Argentina, Cuba, Sudan, -- let them hang.


I.E. We Allow them to kill Christ! and ask for the worser

synergy777
07-04-2010, 12:38 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263029/New-book-claims-Jesus-son-middle-class-architect.html

Not a carpenter: Jesus 'was the son of a middle-class architect', new book claims

By Dan Newling
Last updated at 11:43 PM on 02nd April 2010

It's a somewhat different version of the greatest story ever told.

Rather than being born in a stable to a carpenter father, Jesus was actually the son of a successful, middle class and highly intellectual architect.

The claim comes from biblical scholar Dr Adam Bradford, who also says that between the ages of 12 and 30 - the so-called 'missing years' of Jesus's life, when little is known about him - he was studying at religious schools and became the highest-ranking rabbi in Judea.

The radical revision of Christian history would suggest that, in preaching the spurning of worldly possessions for an austere life, Jesus may have been speaking from experience.

Dr Bradford has analysed the Bible's original Greek and Hebrew
scriptures to try to establish the truth about Christ's background.

He says a mistranslation of the Greek word 'tekton' to describe the profession of Joseph, Jesus's father, is one of many mistakes that have led to a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ's character.

Dr Bradford claims that while 'tekton' is usually said to mean carpenter, it more accurately means master builder or architect. As an architect, Joseph would have had a higher social status that enabled him to better educate his son.

In most English translations of the Bible furthermore, Joseph is a 'just man'. But Dr Bradford says the word 'man' is not in the original Greek text and the word translated as 'just' really means a senior religious scholar involved in the judiciary.

'If Jesus was the son of a poor itinerant carpenter with some radical ideas nobody would have been that concerned about what he said.

'But because Jesus was trained to become the most educated Jew of his time, it gave him the chance to exert extraordinary influence and let him get away with acts that normal Jews would have been imprisoned or chastised for.

'Christ enjoyed social privileges unavailable to an uneducated itinerant carpenter. Not only was he able to clear the official Temple market on two occasions without interference but he was also able to teach unhindered in the Temple courts and synagogues.

Throughout the Bible he is addressed with formal titles of Rabbi and Doctor of the Law - the highest position in Jewish society - even by his enemies.'

Little is known about what Jesus did between 12, when he is said to have spent Passover in Jerusalem with his family, and 30, when he was baptised by John.

Dr Bradford, who is also a London GP, believes that during this time Jesus became the most senior rabbi in Judea.

He said: 'When Christ sat with the Doctors of the Law in the Temple at age 12 he astonished them with his knowledge. They would almost certainly have recruited Christ for later enrolment at their schools.

'It would be like a Premiership manager signing up a child who was incredibly gifted at football.

'Under the Jewish system, Jesus would not have re-emerged into public life until he was 30 when he had become a "didaskalos".

'This word is currently translated in the Bible as "teacher" but in fact it has a much higher status and meaning.

'Because the Jewish authorities had invested so much hope and time into Jesus it explains why they became so vehement in their hatred after he went "off message".

'He was their great hope who deviated from the Jewish faith, and so betrayed what they stood for.'

phildee3
09-04-2010, 10:52 AM
Dr Bradford claims that while 'tekton' is usually said to mean carpenter, it more accurately means master builder or architect.



or even more accurately - a master mason -
a master of "the craft."

It is said that Jesus was the son of a carpenter, but the Greek word is TEKTON, and means builder; ARCHE is the Greek name of primordial matter. It is also said that Jesus was a carpenter (tekton) himself. It is true, he was A TEKTON, builder or Mason, a Son of God, the Grand ARCHETEKTON. At the age of THIRTY-THREE, when he had taken the three-times-three (9) degrees of Mystic Masonry, he descended to the center of the earth. So does every other TEKTON, Mason or PHREE MESSEN, (CHILD OF LIGHT,) as the Egyptian called such, descend through the NINE arch-like strata of the earth. We shall find at the time of the first advent of Christ both Hiram Abiff, the son of Cain, and Solomon, the son of Seth, reborn to take from Him the next great Initiation into the Christian Mysteries.
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/books/freemasonry_and_catholism_by_max_heindel/files/the_path_of_initiation.htm

harry501
29-06-2012, 11:06 AM
This is weird, well not weird, I'm past anything being weird anymore lol. I had a dream that I was told I was a Master Builder last night and given a beautiful wife, she seemed very real, I could even smell her hair (still can).

I googled Master Builder and found a few things that made sense (to me alone!), but this thread jumpoed out at me. I just realised that through life I got 2 nicknames.... Harry and Archie. Neither I could explain to why people cvalled me these, in fact, 2 different friends (not knowing of one another at all) started calling me Harry years ago, just as diffreent friends would call me Archie. My name is nothing like either.

I'm pretty clued up on Freemasonry stuff (to what extent I'l never know obviuosly... yet maybe).

Interesting... to me anyways. Sorry to bore you lol

harry501
29-06-2012, 11:08 AM
I'm also 33 btw.... that's when the "crazy" stuff in my life started happening... the prophetic dreams, the understanding that we're in a matrix guided by opposing sides and much much more. I asked for answers and I got them... wish I had never done so now, but c'est la vie. It will all come to an end soon anyway

valmar
29-06-2012, 02:43 PM
Monty Python's - Life of Brian-5 - YouTube

:p:D

okie
01-07-2012, 03:03 AM
This false savior given to the deceived world by the Roman Catholic Church and pass on to her daugthers the protestants has a plan in mind.
The Creator of all things has a PLAN also.
You must choose which side you want to be on.
Having spent 47 years as a so called Bible believing Baptist Christian I know where you are coming from.
Sad thing is you are deceived by the God of this world and you have no clue that you are deceived, 2 Cor.4:4 and Rev.12:9 that my friend is total deception at its finest.
If you are a Christian I will tell you this.
You do not believe the very Bible you say you follow.
How do I know? Simple read 1 Yahchanan ( John ) 2:4 for your self.
If you don't keep the commendments you are a liar in the truth is not in you.
Now the 4th commandment says remember the SABBATH DAY and keep it holy.
So why the hell are you going to your little whore house on Sunday?
I'll tell you why because you belong to the one you obey Romans 6:16.
That one is Satan the devil just like the great apostle John wrote in 1 John 3:7 & 8.
Now you can stay in your deception and miss the soon coming Kingdom or you can repent of your sins and be converted as you are instructed to do in Acts 3:19.
What you should do is find out who changed the Sabbath and why.
Since your religion states that the Creator never changes did you check your brain at the door of your so call house of worship?
For your own sake as well as those whom you are leading make sure you know what and Whom you believe.
Come on by and see if you have eyes to see and a believing mind.


May the Spirit that inspired the Hebrew prophets and the apostles of the REAL Hebrew Messiah to write to us to warn us of things to come bless your understanding in your search for the truth.

Okie

roman piso
01-07-2012, 03:07 AM
If you follow YAHWEH then why are you read the Christian Testament which ridicules YAHWEH.

A Greek rendition of YAH is "DIA" , eventually DIA-BOLUS , which mutated into "DEVIL", The Christian Authors demonized YAHWEH and turned him into the Devil.

passerbye999
02-07-2012, 07:42 AM
This false savior given to the deceived world by the Roman Catholic Church and pass on to her daugthers the protestants has a plan in mind.
The Creator of all things has a PLAN also.
You must choose which side you want to be on.
Having spent 47 years as a so called Bible believing Baptist Christian I know where you are coming from.
Sad thing is you are deceived by the God of this world and you have no clue that you are deceived, 2 Cor.4:4 and Rev.12:9 that my friend is total deception at its finest.
If you are a Christian I will tell you this.
You do not believe the very Bible you say you follow.
How do I know? Simple read 1 Yahchanan ( John ) 2:4 for your self.
If you don't keep the commendments you are a liar in the truth is not in you.
Now the 4th commandment says remember the SABBATH DAY and keep it holy.
So why the hell are you going to your little whore house on Sunday?
I'll tell you why because you belong to the one you obey Romans 6:16.
That one is Satan the devil just like the great apostle John wrote in 1 John 3:7 & 8.
Now you can stay in your deception and miss the soon coming Kingdom or you can repent of your sins and be converted as you are instructed to do in Acts 3:19.
What you should do is find out who changed the Sabbath and why.
Since your religion states that the Creator never changes did you check your brain at the door of your so call house of worship?
For your own sake as well as those whom you are leading make sure you know what and Whom you believe.
Come on by and see if you have eyes to see and a believing mind.


May the Spirit that inspired the Hebrew prophets and the apostles of the REAL Hebrew Messiah to write to us to warn us of things to come bless your understanding in your search for the truth.

Okie

You're a wing nut. Every day is sabbath what matter is it which day one rests. The book wasn't written by God nor compiled by God it was written and compiled by men with the superstitious beliefs of people from two thousand years ago. The book is symbolic not literal. It has secrets hidden and crap revealed. Some of what is revealed is moral truths most is just a story of generations. Why are you on this website they won't let you post yours?

valmar
02-07-2012, 08:45 AM
You're a wing nut. Every day is sabbath what matter is it which day one rests. The book wasn't written by God nor compiled by God it was written and compiled by men with the superstitious beliefs of people from two thousand years ago. The book is symbolic not literal. It has secrets hidden and crap revealed. Some of what is revealed is moral truths most is just a story of generations. Why are you on this website they won't let you post yours?

He really is a nutcase. Nothing seemingly but rubbish. Go figure. :cool:

passerbye999
02-07-2012, 10:30 AM
He really is a nutcase. Nothing seemingly but rubbish. Go figure. :cool:

Yep absolute garbage, where do these people come from?:confused:

valmar
02-07-2012, 10:56 AM
Yep absolute garbage, where do these people come from?:confused:

I don't know! I wait, I do...they. Are. Trolls! From World of Warcraft no less! >_< :D