Old Gnostic Meditation

[chris]

I just thought I’d write down a very good practical meditation that as far as I know came from the Gnostics but it is probably way older than that…

It is very simple and is one of the best ways into the subconscious and for learning about whom you are and how you work.

I will first describe the traditional way and then I’ll write down my little exercise that I use with it.

Firstly get comfortable and relax your body until you notice your breathing changes into almost a snore.

Keep your mind very silent and simply analyse what is going on during the silence (in your mind).

After a very short period your ego will flash an image in front of your face. This image is to distract you and to send you off into a successive chain of thoughts until you are out of meditation.

As soon as you see this image, you’ve got him. Visualise the image which will bring that image from your subconscious to your conscious.

(If you realise you’ve started thinking already and you missed the flash then simply reverse the chain of thoughts back to the flashing image and you’ll be surprised how many times you can actually remember the original image.)

When you’ve caught the original image you might see a vision or hear something, this is your ego, it is not used to being exposed like this.

What you must do afterwards is be vigilant because your ego will try to send in another very soon afterwards to again distract the fact that he has just been exposed. This time you’ll be waiting and it’s much easier to catch the second and third time.

After you’ve done this a few times (may only even be once), your ego will literally be exhausted and will have to regroup. This is when you will feel a huge sense of happiness and achievement, you will probably feel a kundalini awakening and have a symbolic vision. Write it down in as much detail as possible.

The ego regroups pretty quickly and you’ll probably find it very hard to meditate after but you’ve done a great job. End the meditation and then reflect.

This was the first meditation that ever got me into the state of dhayana and it’s easy to do. You don’t need to be meditating for years to achieve this, it is only the fact that most people consider meditation to be something you sit out until the preset time runs out that not many people do anything there. The ancients likened this meditation to going fishing because with your silent mind you are waiting for your ego to bite and when it does you reel him in.

The reason why you can learn so much about yourself through this meditation is that you will start to realise that there are only a few avenues of distraction that the ego uses against you...What is strange is that they might not necessarily be ones you would instantly think of but when you figure them out, you will know how much you’ve been distracted by these chains of thoughts in the past.

Anyway, a very good adaptation to this meditation is to use it mindfully throughout the day or even when going to sleep…Just when you realise yourself thinking, retrace your chain of thoughts back to the original and you’ll find that it produces very interesting effect in your dreams…When I practice this for a while and then go to sleep I am always having dreams of chasing my fears rather than my fears chasing me!

Another advantage of this is that in ZEN meditation, your supposed to be mindful throughout the day, well this can be very hard and stressful but doing this technique you are able to stay mindful yet not be stressed and get real progress.

[chris]

Something I find interesting about this ancient meditation in comparison the newage NLP meditation is that it is the exact opposite...

Let's take the newage NLP...They start off with the preconceived problem a thought from the past that is still troubling the person. The visualise it and then they change colour, reverse it or frame it and send it deep into the background...This is the exact opposite of the gnostic meditation.

Firstly the gnostic deals truly with the cause of the problem while the nlper deals with what they think is troubling them.

Secondly the gnostic brings it to the foreground and the nlper sends it to the background.

Thirdly, you feel a numbness from the nlp method or a feeling of none stress but also non relief. In the gnostic however, you will feel a huge relief that you have managed to get off your shoulders.

[tejas]

Nice posts mate, very helpful!

Btw what do you think of machine meditation devices like mind-spa?

http://www.meditations-uk.com/products/mindspa.html?kw=mindspa&fl=8038

[chris]

Nice posts mate, very helpful!

Btw what do you think of machine meditation devices like mind-spa?

http://www.meditations-uk.com/products/mindspa.html?kw=mindspa&fl=8038

lol man, I'm a true psychonaught and I own a couple of things like that... Though they might produce brainwaves similar to meditation, it is not meditation. If you practice my other ancient meditation I wrote down on this forum, you'll soon see that you can get into radically different breathing patterns which correlate with brainwave patterns. This is much easier, cheaper and gives you a sense of achievement rather than the flickershow...

I can't say a devise like that is bad for you but there are much better more natural things out there and they do not pose any risk whatsoever. I had a few dreams after using a similar devise and it was like some of my inner world was still playing along to the light flashing. I'd rather get the benefits of a complete change in brainwave patterns, being completely alert and doing it on my own effort than relying on a device like that.

You also need to remember that though science has progressed a little in our time regarding neural chemistry. It is still in its very early stages. Just because you can get the brain to mimic a symptom of meditation, does not mean that you are in meditation, in fact far from it. You inner world is a reflection of the outer, complete with growing tree’s, animals and people interacting.. NLP and psychology will love you to believe that you are a series of biochemical and electrical impulses because then they can sell you products based on bullshit science. But everyone knows the brain is extremely complex and there is way more to it than these psychologists and NLPers want you to believe. Psychologists and NLPers know about the ego but they do not know about the self and they try to reprogram the ego, tell me how many geniuses has psychology produced? How many geniuses has NLP or flashing light devises produced?

These kinds of devises remind me a lot of scientologies e-meters...Yes, these e-meters measure the slight variations of electrical charge in the palms of your hands but that is not an overview of stress or relaxation. It is far from a full picture but because it's got bells and whistles on it, the scientologists can blind people with the science and make them believe that this slight change in voltage is an exact analysis of your thetan levels in your mind...Let's say you have a kundalini opening while using one of those e-meters, it would probably go off the charts with the clammy hands but your brain will radically change in frequency, exact opposite to how scientologists think.

I would say you are a king of your realm and the idea is to make you inner world as a great kingdom that is free, independent and resourceful, flashing lights can’t do this.

They also use these types of things for hypnosis, which is a lot different to meditation. Meditation is exactly the same as concentration; in fact concentration is a better word because a lot of people think that meditation is on par with sleep, they say ‘I was so deep that it was hard to pull out of it,’ this should not be the case, you should be extremely vigilant and aware, it’s the whole idea. These flashing lights are used to hypnotise buyers in supermarkets and also used by nlpers and psychologists to put them in suggestive states for them to program them with their petty bullshit. But as I said earlier, I have used it and then hours later, I was still feeling the effects. Imagine if you were to use it and being in that state, going to the supermarket with all its subliminals or even worse, you were to watch the TV…

I am not saying all this because I really like to be rooted in traditional teachings, I love innovation for instance, I don't see many traditional astrologers complaining about being able to analyse many charts a day thanks to computers. This is a great innovation. But these types of devises are at best, don’t compete with my other meditation that I listed and that's at very best...I think we all know this deep down but telling people what they want to hear has been a great money maker for a lot of people, what I do find funny is that certain people love to hear this so much that they attack me with all these airy philosophies about how I am dogmatic for looking in hindsight that the old stuff is generally much better than the new.

[tejas]

lol man, I'm a true psychonaught and I own a couple of things like that... Though they might produce brainwaves similar to meditation, it is not meditation. If you practice my other ancient meditation I wrote down on this forum, you'll soon see that you can get into radically different breathing patterns which correlate with brainwave patterns. This is much easier, cheaper and gives you a sense of achievement rather than the flickershow...

I can't say a devise like that is bad for you but there are much better more natural things out there and they do not pose any risk whatsoever. I had a few dreams after using a similar devise and it was like some of my inner world was still playing along to the light flashing. I'd rather get the benefits of a complete change in brainwave patterns, being completely alert and doing it on my own effort than relying on a device like that.

You also need to remember that though science has progressed a little in our time regarding neural chemistry. It is still in its very early stages. Just because you can get the brain to mimic a symptom of meditation, does not mean that you are in meditation, in fact far from it. You inner world is a reflection of the outer, complete with growing tree’s, animals and people interacting.. NLP and psychology will love you to believe that you are a series of biochemical and electrical impulses because then they can sell you products based on bullshit science. But everyone knows the brain is extremely complex and there is way more to it than these psychologists and NLPers want you to believe. Psychologists and NLPers know about the ego but they do not know about the self and they try to reprogram the ego, tell me how many geniuses has psychology produced? How many geniuses has NLP or flashing light devises produced?

These kinds of devises remind me a lot of scientologies e-meters...Yes, these e-meters measure the slight variations of electrical charge in the palms of your hands but that is not an overview of stress or relaxation. It is far from a full picture but because it's got bells and whistles on it, the scientologists can blind people with the science and make them believe that this slight change in voltage is an exact analysis of your thetan levels in your mind...Let's say you have a kundalini opening while using one of those e-meters, it would probably go off the charts with the clammy hands but your brain will radically change in frequency, exact opposite to how scientologists think.

I would say you are a king of your realm and the idea is to make you inner world as a great kingdom that is free, independent and resourceful, flashing lights can’t do this.

They also use these types of things for hypnosis, which is a lot different to meditation. Meditation is exactly the same as concentration; in fact concentration is a better word because a lot of people think that meditation is on par with sleep, they say ‘I was so deep that it was hard to pull out of it,’ this should not be the case, you should be extremely vigilant and aware, it’s the whole idea. These flashing lights are used to hypnotise buyers in supermarkets and also used by nlpers and psychologists to put them in suggestive states for them to program them with their petty bullshit. But as I said earlier, I have used it and then hours later, I was still feeling the effects. Imagine if you were to use it and being in that state, going to the supermarket with all its subliminals or even worse, you were to watch the TV…

I am not saying all this because I really like to be rooted in traditional teachings, I love innovation for instance, I don't see many traditional astrologers complaining about being able to analyse many charts a day thanks to computers. This is a great innovation. But these types of devises are at best, don’t compete with my other meditation that I listed and that's at very best...I think we all know this deep down but telling people what they want to hear has been a great money maker for a lot of people, what I do find funny is that certain people love to hear this so much that they attack me with all these airy philosophies about how I am dogmatic for looking in hindsight that the old stuff is generally much better than the new.

Heh I might give them a try anyway, got money to burn ,might as well get myself a nice new toy :)

Also can't find the link to your other thread?

[devin]

I'm glad I looked at this thread. I made up my own form of meditation a few months a go which is hard to explain but when I do this meditation I get these amazing images one after the other. However I never hold on to the images as this technique says. I'm going to do this tonight.

Is kundalini awakening a feeling sort of like a rush of electricity going from the bottom to the top of your body? I get this once in awhile.

[chris]

Heh I might give them a try anyway, got money to burn ,might as well get myself a nice new toy :)

Also can't find the link to your other thread?

Knock yourself out:) Even though I don't really see the benefit in them, I don't think they can be really bad for you....

http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11193

I'm glad I looked at this thread. I made up my own form of meditation a few months a go which is hard to explain but when I do this meditation I get these amazing images one after the other. However I never hold on to the images as this technique says. I'm going to do this tonight.

Is kundalini awakening a feeling sort of like a rush of electricity going from the bottom to the top of your body? I get this once in awhile.

Real kundalini awakenings are very definite. Yes you will feel a rush of electricity going from the bottom of your body, probably with fire and it is so powerful you will try to turn it off for the fear of a spontaneous combustion will probably emerge. Ancient yogis said that this fear is mostly the fear leaving your body, a bit like the cold feeling of alcohol is really moisture evaporating. Most likely it will be accompanied with a vision of a serpent or dragon (hence the east-west fascination with the dragon)...Your body will probably be in a trance state where the astral body has been activated and you might be able to leave your body or just feel stuck and not able to move(if it's weak).

Afterwards you might get a fizzing sound in your head, I haven't seen any old texts talking about this to confirm but I think it may be the dissolvement of the ego or even cells...You might get the runs, extremely bad headaches and or sickness. This is due to the bodies energies being elevated and going through a rapid detox. If the kundalini is woken up too fast or before it should be then psychosis might emerge…I’ve heard story of person getting submitted to hospital (because of his fever after a forced kundalini awakening) and for the next few days thinking their bed is a ship of knowledge and the bed opposite is an island and the guy in the bed was waiting for him to arrive to give him sacred wisdom…He would have been thrown straight into a mental home if it had not been for his other physical symptoms:D When you have lesser ones you will see probably the world is very different for a time and does take a little while to adjust, just prey that you’re not invited to speak on the Wogan show:)

All of these discourses are meant for the yogi to understand what may happen when this arrives. All yogis, Buddhists and magicians warned against being fooled by these experiences, they are not uncommon and are not legendary, they write them down to warn their students so they don’t freak out and go crazy. They also warn again thinking they are progressing when though they might be, it is really a long road and many people stop to take pictures and then wind up pretending to be the guru for the rest of their lives…This is why the newage bullshit is so deceptive, they tell the people that they are progressing even if they are going backwards. They say everything to a slight depression is a kundalini awakening, yet the ancient yogis said that it doesn’t matter, the only reason they talk about it is to prepair their students in case they have an overly strong one.

Do you see the yogis and magicians talking about the astral much? No, they don’t need to, they do warn others about it’s pitfalls but only enough to keep them informed and their feet on the ground. They don’t try to describe it and say of all their accomplishments on it, yet the newage guru’s all talk about their experiences and make it out to be some kind of revelation to get more groupies. This stuff is very misleading, people have been doing this for thousands of years.

[devin]

Knock yourself out:) Even though I don't really see the benefit in them, I don't think they can be really bad for you....

http://davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11193



Real kundalini awakenings are very definite. Yes you will feel a rush of electricity going from the bottom of your body, probably with fire and it is so powerful you will try to turn it off for the fear of a spontaneous combustion will probably emerge. Ancient yogis said that this fear is mostly the fear leaving your body, a bit like the cold feeling of alcohol is really moisture evaporating. Most likely it will be accompanied with a vision of a serpent or dragon (hence the east-west fascination with the dragon)...Your body will probably be in a trance state where the astral body has been activated and you might be able to leave your body or just feel stuck and not able to move(if it's weak).

Afterwards you might get a fizzing sound in your head, I haven't seen any old texts talking about this to confirm but I think it may be the dissolvement of the ego or even cells...You might get the runs, extremely bad headaches and or sickness. This is due to the bodies energies being elevated and going through a rapid detox. If the kundalini is woken up too fast or before it should be then psychosis might emerge…I’ve heard story of person getting submitted to hospital (because of his fever after a forced kundalini awakening) and for the next few days thinking their bed is a ship of knowledge and the bed opposite is an island and the guy in the bed was waiting for him to arrive to give him sacred wisdom…He would have been thrown straight into a mental home if it had not been for his other physical symptoms:D When you have lesser ones you will see probably the world is very different for a time and does take a little while to adjust, just prey that you’re not invited to speak on the Wogan show:)

All of these discourses are meant for the yogi to understand what may happen when this arrives. All yogis, Buddhists and magicians warned against being fooled by these experiences, they are not uncommon and are not legendary, they write them down to warn their students so they don’t freak out and go crazy. They also warn again thinking they are progressing when though they might be, it is really a long road and many people stop to take pictures and then wind up pretending to be the guru for the rest of their lives…This is why the newage bullshit is so deceptive, they tell the people that they are progressing even if they are going backwards. They say everything to a slight depression is a kundalini awakening, yet the ancient yogis said that it doesn’t matter, the only reason they talk about it is to prepair their students in case they have an overly strong one.

Do you see the yogis and magicians talking about the astral much? No, they don’t need to, they do warn others about it’s pitfalls but only enough to keep them informed and their feet on the ground. They don’t try to describe it and say of all their accomplishments on it, yet the newage guru’s all talk about their experiences and make it out to be some kind of revelation to get more groupies. This stuff is very misleading, people have been doing this for thousands of years.

If I have had a kundalini awakening it was not as strong as the ones you described.

It is interesting how people see a dragon when this happens. I don't know if you have read Michael Tsarion's books or seen his videos but he uses EVERY reptile symbolism as evidence for reptilians.

What is the best old-age book I can get that teaches me HOW to connect with the unseen world? Also what websites do you go to that teach the old ways?

If you've never heard of these sites then you would probably like them...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

http://www.sacred-magick.com/

I was reading the old stuff a few months a go but a new-ager scared me away from it all... go figure.:)

[serpentoffire]

Why have I chakras opened and kundalini raised without to have done a minute of meditation?

(...and I see also flying dragons, ghosts and orbs)

[chris]

If I have had a kundalini awakening it was not as strong as the ones you described.

It is interesting how people see a dragon when this happens. I don't know if you have read Michael Tsarion's books or seen his videos but he uses EVERY reptile symbolism as evidence for reptilians.

Tsarion's a blatant disinfo agent...There is no way anyone can claim to be into the occult yet come out with the shit he does...

What is the best old-age book I can get that teaches me HOW to connect with the unseen world? Also what websites do you go to that teach the old ways?

It depends, what stuff are you interested in? Alchemy? Qabalah? Yoga? The reasons why I listed these meditations is that they are pretty easy to get into and don't take a lot of research, however even though there are a few more quality pieces of info out there, you need to do a wide range of reading to come up with your own path...Plus if you think you can progress without eating a good diet and retaining your mojo then you're going to find it hard going:eek: sorry to have to break that to you.

If you've never heard of these sites then you would probably like them...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

http://www.sacred-magick.com/

I was reading the old stuff a few months a go but a new-ager scared me away from it all... go figure.:)

What kind of old stuff was your reading and what did the newager say?

I've been through both sites, sacred texts is a great resource page and I would recommend you spend your time on there...

Sacred magick has a lot of good info but you have to pay them for it and if you hunt around, you can find them for free elsewhere...Sacred Magick is also has a lot of thalamic works which was the real newage. Crowley has written a lot of interesting books but he also completely alters the teachings. The rivalry between Crowley and Mathers has been the decline of magick (just like the rivalry between cocacola and pepsi has been the downfall of lemonade), this is also the time when magic became all about divine magick (as Agrippa would call it) and alchemy was reduced to symbolic forms instead of real laboratory work. This also happened with astrology but now astrology has really took a beating from the psychologists that followed...At least alchemy can't be tampered with or else the experiments will fail, you can make up a whole load of bollocks with astrology and as long as you believe its true then you will find ways to satisfy your beliefs and forget all the times your wrong.

A big different between new and old is that old would work on increasing energy into the astral body, while a lot of new stuff focuses on taking energy out of the physical body so that the astral body is comparatively stronger. When you are sick you might activate your astral body, people like Crowley would advise people to exhaust themselves of their sexual fluids until they have hardly any left and that way the astral body is able to escape their physical prison. This has proven not to be an efficient way to liberate it. Might have worked for Crowley but not for many of his followers, despite how cool they think they are. How many old texts have their been that describe that the aspirant must be pure? It's pretty well known, well some of the old texts that demand this the most have had people try to follow the directions exactly, I have friends of a friend who go all out, buy houses to the directions of certain texts, do exactly like it describes but because they are so polluted they get absolutely no where...If you are familiar with Abremalin the mage, then you will see his very expensive and elaborate way to live yet these people who manage to adhere to this don't follow the most basic and obvious direction of all and waste half a year and god knows how much money...Yet if you follow the basics you might find yourself bathing in fire with hardly any effort.

First you need to decide what your interested to research...I also have no idea how much you've read, if you want a beginners viewpoint then I would recommend Cornelius Agrippa's 3 books of occult philosophy...It is so big though I recommend you start on the very basics that take a little time to build and then read through the esoteric stuff and by the time you're ready to move onto those things you will have created a very strong base. In the end however, you should be knowledgable of all kinds of stuff from geometry and mathematics to magic, they are all intertwined. Don't forget the offical books of secret societies, you'd be surprised what they put out for free on the internet.

[chris]

Here is Agrippas book(s)

http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agrippa1.htm

The key you need to remember about the thinking of that time was that everything was linked up...

Have you heard of techniques that help you remember stuff? You make a story with your mind or you link them together with symbolic representations? Well this is exactly what people did, except they didn't do it to remember the placements of cards in a deck but they did it more of a general way of thinking...This is how the poetry was very synchronistic at the time, for instance, the eagle was always considered the king of the birds and the lion as the king of the beasts...Their philosophy was loosely connected with rules, these rules were considered to be also how the mind worked and they would try to imitate the higher mind by practicing the sorting game with the elements and symbology with their conscious minds. One of the reasons why this mode of thought gradually disappeared was that around the time of the enlightenment, that a lot of well known of these people started to denounce this philosophy, in favour of at first reason and then the church got on the bandwagon and called it disorder. Reason was a powerful innovation started off by people like Francis Bacon but disorder was subversive and it was kind of like the pope denouncing Christ after reading a Richard Dawkins book...

The way of thinking back then wasn't occult, many people including Christians used to think of the elements and attribute creatures, cultures and everything they could think of to them, it was a natural way to think and today with the memory guru's, they prove that this approach was a very good way to remember stuff...However the higher reason for this was to communicate with the subconscious or rather let the subconscious communicate with you and for you to understand the symbolism.

Although the schematics are different, in other cultures, they have the same philosophy...The taoists would sort things into the I Ching and the Cabalists would attribute things to the tree of life...There are many different schematics of which they attributed things to but they all seem to be alike to the fact that they would base things on the elements, textures, smells, colours and other things rather than breeds of dog, for instance, the pit-bull might be attributed to the Gevurah in the Sephiroth where as the sheepdog might be Gedulah...

[devin]

Tsarion's a blatant disinfo agent...There is no way anyone can claim to be into the occult yet come out with the shit he does...

You might be right about that. Every time he says something outlandish he looks away from the camera like he knows he is lying... but I don't know if he's a disinfo agent or not.

It depends, what stuff are you interested in? Alchemy? Qabalah? Yoga? The reasons why I listed these meditations is that they are pretty easy to get into and don't take a lot of research, however even though there are a few more quality pieces of info out there, you need to do a wide range of reading to come up with your own path...Plus if you think you can progress without eating a good diet and retaining your mojo then you're going to find it hard going:eek: sorry to have to break that to you.

I would consider my diet way better than average... especially lately as I eat mostly organic fruits and vegatables all day long. I never drink alcohol, I smoke maybe 1 cigar a week, and I don't take any pharmaceutical drugs... the only thing is I might drink a bit too much coffee in the morning.

If I were to be interested in magick, OBE's, etc... like 10 years a go I think I would have seen much more success. All this talk about armageddon + the fact that I desperately want to escape this world is making success in these subtle practices difficult. I am never at peace really.

The stuff that I am most interested in is contacting my spirit guides/higher self - preferrably by astral projection. I was reading a book on how to conjure up spirits but I then I read that all magick is black magick and it can create more karma which traps you in the 3-D plane even longer... so I stopped reading it.

What old book teaches one how to astral project... if there is one are the techniques any different than the new books on this subject?

thanks for the link by the way

[raffles]

Why have I chakras opened and kundalini raised without to have done a minute of meditation?

Exact same thing here.
I raised kundalini the first time one night in bed, and i hadnt a clue what was going on, i thought i was going mental, i spent the rest of the night awake and in shock, i was confused for weeks after.

I took me about 8 months to find out what the hell had happened to me.

The second time it fully raised i knew what was going on, now that was amazing !!

[chris]

You might be right about that. Every time he says something outlandish he looks away from the camera like he knows he is lying... but I don't know if he's a disinfo agent or not.

Also rather than reference things he says stuff like 'No one will believe me but this is the truth...' Not exactly research...



I would consider my diet way better than average... especially lately as I eat mostly organic fruits and vegatables all day long. I never drink alcohol, I smoke maybe 1 cigar a week, and I don't take any pharmaceutical drugs... the only thing is I might drink a bit too much coffee in the morning.

If I were to be interested in magick, OBE's, etc... like 10 years a go I think I would have seen much more success. All this talk about armageddon + the fact that I desperately want to escape this world is making success in these subtle practices difficult. I am never at peace really.

[QUOTE=devin;155321]The stuff that I am most interested in is contacting my spirit guides/higher self - preferrably by astral projection. I was reading a book on how to conjure up spirits but I then I read that all magick is black magick and it can create more karma which traps you in the 3-D plane even longer... so I stopped reading it.

You'll get that a lot. People also say conspiracy theories make you paranoid and pursuing health will make you self-conscious. It depends on how you go about it...

What old book teaches one how to astral project... if there is one are the techniques any different than the new books on this subject?

thanks for the link by the way

Read that book and then get back to me:D

[devin]

Read that book and then get back to me:D

I'm just about done with this one book on Astral Projection and then I'll get to that one right away.

[chris]

I was reading a book on how to conjure up spirits but I then I read that all magick is black magick and it can create more karma which traps you in the 3-D plane even longer...

Summoning demons was used by magicians not for evil purposes, that was for Sorcerers.

The unredeemed Spirits and their followers, their works, and all their doings-be their unrelenting enemy and try throughout your life to command them and never to serve them. Abramelin the Mage.

First he advised to liberate the astral body, then to overcome all evil spirits and then to live with your feet below hell and your head above heaven.

[serpentoffire]

Summoning demons was used by magicians not for evil purposes, that was for Sorcerers.

Bullshits :mad: Once you call a demon your soul is property of Lucifer.

First he advised to liberate the astral body, then to overcome all evil spirits and then to live with your feet below hell and your head above heaven.

Yes, the next step is to join Freemasonry or Mormons (or both).:eek:

[chris]

Bullshits :mad: Once you call a demon your soul is property of Lucifer.



Yes, the next step is to join Freemasonry or Mormons (or both).:eek:

Wanna stake? I'll even supply the matches.

Do a bit of research outside of Christian conspiracy theories contrived upon the inquisition.

Is a catholic priest property of Lucifer for performing an exorcism?

[serpentoffire]

Wanna stake? I'll even supply the matches.

Do a bit of research outside of Christian conspiracy theories contrived upon the inquisition.

Is a catholic priest property of Lucifer for performing an exorcism?

I know very very well what it is an exorcism. If you are not prepared you could to be possessed instead of the exorcised. This is why, during the exorcism, nobody have to touch the possessed.

Do you want to know conspiracy between Satanism, Vatican and Freemasonry? See this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oohv17NTLi8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64Hd288AJE

[chris]

I know very very well what it is an exorcism. If you are not prepared you could to be possessed instead of the exorcised. This is why, during the exorcism, nobody have to touch the possessed.

Do you want to know conspiracy between Satanism, Vatican and Freemasonry? See this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oohv17NTLi8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64Hd288AJE

Where have I put up anything to do with freemasonry?

Look here are the perils of Ice hockey,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Ap_eXEWLJY

Don't you know what happens to Ice Hockey players?

If your gonna accuse me of heresy then at least get on the same wavelength and not make absurd insinuations. If you read my other posts, I say that esoteric knowledge is harboured but not submitted through secret societies, it mostly goes down from individual to individual...Stop showing your ignorance with this masonry bullshit or go back to Tsarson or Maxwell, wherever you get your info from.

[chris]

I know very very well what it is an exorcism. If you are not prepared you could to be possessed instead of the exorcised. This is why, during the exorcism, nobody have to touch the possessed.

Why did I say that you have to liberate the astral body first? I am not up to this stage, I was just showing some misconceptions about magic and how it was viewed in the old days before the inquisition, please; save me the lecture...

[serpentoffire]

Why did I say that you have to liberate the astral body first? I am not up to this stage, I was just showing some misconceptions about magic and how it was viewed in the old days before the inquisition, please; save me the lecture...

Uff...too much tired this night to continue. You win.

[chris]

Uff...too much tired this night to continue. You win.

Thanks, fuck off this thread:p