Food for the moon - G.I.Gurdjieff

[montag]

Somebody asked at a meeting:
"How should evolution be understood?"

"The evolution of man," Gurdjieff replied, "can be taken as the development in him of those powers and possibilities which never develop by themselves, that is, mechanically. Only this kind of development, only this kind of growth, marks the real evolution of man. There is, and there can be, no other kind of evolution whatever.

"We have before us man at the present moment of his development. Nature has made him such as he is, and, in large masses, so far as we can see, such he will remain. Changes likely to violate the general requirements of nature can only take place in separate units.

"In order to understand the law of man's evolution it is necessary to grasp that, beyond a certain point, this evolution is not at all necessary, that is to say, it is not necessary for nature at a given moment in its own development. To speak more precisely: the evolution of mankind corresponds to the evolution of the planets, but the evolution of the planets proceeds, for us, in infinitely prolonged cycles of time. Throughout the stretch of time that human thought can embrace, no essential changes can take place in the life of the planets, and, consequently, no essential changes can take place in the life of mankind.

"Humanity neither progresses nor evolves. What seems to us to be progress or evolution is a partial modification which can be immediately counterbalanced by a corresponding modification in an opposite direction.
"Humanity, like the rest of organic life, exists on earth for the needs and purposes of the earth. And it is exactly as it should be for the earth's requirements at the present time.

"Only thought as theoretical and as far removed from fact as modem European thought could have conceived the evolution of man to be possible apart from surrounding nature, or have regarded the evolution of man as a gradual conquest of nature. This is quite impossible. In living, in dying, in evolving, in degenerating, man equally serves the purposes of nature—or, rather, nature makes equal use, though perhaps for different purposes, of the products of both evolution and degeneration. And, at the same time, humanity as a whole can never escape from nature, for, even in struggling against nature man acts in conformity with her purposes. The evolution of large masses of humanity is opposed to nature's purposes. The evolution of a certain small percentage may be in accord with nature's purposes. Man contains within him the possibility of evolution. But the evolution of humanity as a whole, that is, the development of these possibilities in all men, or in most of them, or even in a large number of them, is not necessary for the purposes of the earth or of the planetary world in general, and it might, in fact, be injurious or fatal. There exist, therefore, special forces (of a planetary character) which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity and keep it at the level it ought, to be.

"For instance, the evolution of humanity beyond a certain point, or, to speak more correctly, above a certain percentage, would be fatal for the moon. The moon at present feeds on organic life, on humanity. Humanity is a part of organic life; this means that humanity is food for the moon. If all men were to become too intelligent they would not want to be eaten by the moon.

"But, at the same time, possibilities of evolution exist, and they may be developed in separate individuals with the help of appropriate knowledge and methods. Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the
motorcar, or an aeroplane, and that incompetent handling of the human machine is just as dangerous as incompetent handling of any other complex machine. Everybody understands this in relation to an aeroplane, a motorcar, or a railway engine. But it is very rarely that anyone takes this into account in relation to man in general or to himself in particular. It is considered right and legitimate to think that nature has given men the necessary knowledge of their machine. And yet men understand that an instinctive knowledge of the machine is by no means enough. Why do they study medicine and make use of its services? Because, of course, they realize they do not know their machine. But they do not suspect that it can be known much better than science knows it; they do not suspect that then it would be possible to get quite different work out of it."

Excerpt from "In search of the miraculous"
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=0tzRflrRDeIC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=n+search+of+the+miraculous&source=bl&ots=-uGUDX5wQJ&sig=xpACtsh02bZ-7KuO6CH9gRrgz-o&hl=en&ei=pSqrS_D9DYOcswOW3-WbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA

[orage]

+1 - Gurdjieff "You may prefer to sleep."

[passing]

Nice one. :)

I've mentioned Gurdjieff a few times around here, having found a great deal of useful information in his writings (and Ouspensky's), but nobody seems interested.

It's complicated, multi-faceted stuff, and he did deliberately write in an obscure style so you have to WORK to get at meanings. He had a great sense of humour, too, and I'm convinced he included red herrings to uncover unthinking followers - for example, what is the status of the supposed 'parody' of Darwinism in Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson, where he says that monkeys evolved from humans thanks to women having sex with dogs?

I hope people will check him out, not because I think he's got 'the answer' but because much of the focus of his work is on self-improvement in ways that just about anyone who thinks about it can manage and gain from.

[sekuru]

The measure of a persons commitment to discovering truth is often indicated by what subjects she/he's been willing to read up on at length. Many can go only so far either because their understanding is a mere surface facination, or because the limitations of the knowledge that they have acquired up to that point, through slow assimilation, can only take them so far. Ouspensky draws on a vast depth of knowledge and this reflects through the scope of his writings. I think that a full understanding of these writings beyond a mere intellectual appreciation requires a certain kind of personal insight and mentation, which is developed over time. That is possibly why there has been little uptake of your discussion of the philosophy of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.

[vladmir]

"In order to understand the law of man's evolution it is necessary to grasp that, beyond a certain point, this evolution is not at all necessary, that is to say, it is not necessary for nature at a given moment in its own development.
Wow, i need to pause and reflect over that statement by G.
To speak more precisely: the evolution of mankind corresponds to the evolution of the planets, but the evolution of the planets proceeds, for us, in infinitely prolonged cycles of time. Throughout the stretch of time that human thought can embrace, no essential changes can take place in the life of the planets, and, consequently, no essential changes can take place in the life of mankind.
Again, makes sense in a way.

"Humanity neither progresses nor evolves. What seems to us to be progress or evolution is a partial modification which can be immediately counterbalanced by a corresponding modification in an opposite direction.
I not sure i agree with G.

"Humanity, like the rest of organic life, exists on earth for the needs and purposes of the earth. And it is exactly as it should be for the earth's requirements at the present time.
But what about plastic, pollutants, gmo foods, toxins in the water, air and land etc. etc.
Surely G isint saying that somehow Earth wanted this,
that the Earth somehow wanted nuclear waste and non biodegradable stuff created by humans and dumped callously all over the place.

The evolution of large masses of humanity is opposed to nature's purposes. The evolution of a certain small percentage may be in accord with nature's purposes. Man contains within him the possibility of evolution. But the evolution of humanity as a whole, that is, the development of these possibilities in all men, or in most of them, or even in a large number of them, is not necessary for the purposes of the earth or of the planetary world in general, and it might, in fact, be injurious or fatal.
Again, thats some deep statements right there.

There exist, therefore, special forces (of a planetary character) which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity and keep it at the level it ought, to be.
Wow, just wow.

"For instance, the evolution of humanity beyond a certain point, or, to speak more correctly, above a certain percentage, would be fatal for the moon. The moon at present feeds on organic life, on humanity. Humanity is a part of organic life; this means that humanity is food for the moon. If all men were to become too intelligent they would not want to be eaten by the moon.
Damn straight they wouldnt want to be food for the moon.
Why the fuck should they? "fatal to the moon"? the Moon is already dead, or is it undead, lol i dont know.


In search of the miraculous:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6443168/Ouspensky-In-Search-of-the-Miraculous

[sekuru]

I don't see how man can consider himself as being at the top of the food chain. As Ouspensky himself wrote, beyond our three dimensional experience of the physical material reality there is likely to be other dimensions with an altogether different sort of view of existence. Is it not possible that from that dimension the human consciousness is merely nourishment for higher beings, in the same way that the likes of plants, fish and chicken is our nourishment? Do you think that the fish dangling from the end of a hook, or chickens in crowded coops desire to be our food. No of course not. There is a kind of logic here that you cannot deny - simply because something may be beyond the scope of our awareness does not mean that it cannot exist. Our true challenge is to extend the scope of that awareness beyond its present limitations.

[montag]

http://gurdjieff-foundation-oregon.org/images/needleman2a.jpg

"In our system the end of the ray of creation, the growing end, so to speak, of the branch, is the moon. The energy for the growth, that is, for the development of the moon and for the formation of new shoots, goes to the moon from the earth, where it is created by the joint action of the sun, of all the other planets of the solar system, and of the earth itself. This energy is collected and preserved in a huge accumulator situated on the earth's surface. This accumulator is organic life on earth. Organic life on earth feeds the moon. Everything living on the earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon. The moon is a huge living being feeding upon all that lives and grows on the earth. The moon could not exist without organic life on earth, any more than organic life on earth could exist without the moon. Moreover, in relation to organic life the moon is a huge electromagnet. If the action of the electromagnet were suddenly to stop, organic life would crumble to nothing.

"The process of the growth and the warming of the moon is connected with life and death on the earth. Everything living sets free at its death a certain amount of the energy that has 'animated' it; this energy, or the 'souls' of everything living—plants, animals, people—is attracted to the moon as though by a huge electromagnet, and brings to it the warmth and the life upon which its growth depends, that is, the growth of the ray of creation. In the economy of the universe nothing is lost, and a certain energy having finished its work on one plane goes to another.

"The souls that go to the moon, possessing perhaps even a certain amount of consciousness and memory, find themselves there under ninety-six laws, in the conditions of mineral life, or to put it differently, in conditions from which there is no escape apart from a general evolution in immeasurably long planetary cycles. The moon is 'at the extremity,' at the end of the world; it is the 'outer darkness' of the Christian doctrine 'where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"The influence of the moon upon everything living manifests itself in all that happens on the earth. The moon is the chief, or rather, the nearest, the immediate, motive force of all that takes place in organic life on the earth. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon. The sensitive film of organic life which covers the earthly globe is entirely dependent upon the influence of the huge electromagnet that is sucking out its vitality. Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon.

Excerpt from "In search of the miraculous"

[vladmir]

I don't see how man can consider himself as being at the top of the food chain.
This line of thinking isint a new topic to me, i have reflected a lot on this, after around '99, i came across Osho speaking about Gurdjieff's idea that people are food for the Moon.
This might be terrifying to people who only focus on rainbows and faeries, but not to my mind.

As Ouspensky himself wrote, beyond our three dimensional experience of the physical material reality there is likely to be other dimensions with an altogether different sort of view of existence. Is it not possible that from that dimension the human consciousness is merely nourishment for higher beings, in the same way that the likes of plants, fish and chicken is our nourishment?
I think it is possible, this is along similar lines that Don Juan has talked about the voladores and flyers feeding on the emotions of humans and sustaining on their emotional emanations.
BUT, to say that the point of evolution is so that Man is food for the Moon is silly and something that nobody will take seriously.
The Moon, i feel, representative of what occult literature has called 'the eighth sphere' is like a big Leech that sucks the poisonous blood and dead and rotting flesh in a person who has gangerine. Its a good thing that the leech is there to do the job. But the human dosent exist for the leech.

Do you think that the fish dangling from the end of a hook, or chickens in crowded coops desire to be our food. No of course not. There is a kind of logic here that you cannot deny - simply because something may be beyond the scope of our awareness does not mean that it cannot exist.
I always like challenging my own concepts of reality, its fun for me. The key is not to take oneself too seriously. One isint going to get out alive! Everybody (apart from people who have transformed/transmuted their physical bodies into light) dies.

[vladmir]

http://gurdjieff-foundation-oregon.org/images/needleman2a.jpg

"In our system the end of the ray of creation, the growing end, so to speak, of the branch, is the moon. The energy for the growth, that is, for the development of the moon and for the formation of new shoots, goes to the moon from the earth, where it is created by the joint action of the sun, of all the other planets of the solar system, and of the earth itself. This energy is collected and preserved in a huge accumulator situated on the earth's surface. This accumulator is organic life on earth.
Yeah, like i said, the Moon may act like a Psychic Mop, clearing or absorbing very toxic and negative emotional excretions of the inhabitants of Earth, but humanity does not exist to feed the Moon, thats just nonsense.
Humanity, by its ignorance and its warring, could indeed be serving up a 21 course meal to the Moon, but thats going to change for the better soon (so is the hope)

The moon could not exist without organic life on earth, any more than organic life on earth could exist without the moon. Moreover, in relation to organic life the moon is a huge electromagnet. If the action of the electromagnet were suddenly to stop, organic life would crumble to nothing.
I respectfully would say "rubbish".
Organic life is primarily because of the presence of the Sun. And of course the Earth itself isint called Mother Earth just like that.
In all the planets with inhabited with intelligent 3D life out there,
they all HAVE TO HAVE A SUN around which the planet rotates.
A Moon i would think is optional.

"All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon.

Excerpt from "In search of the miraculous"
In Vedic Astrology the Moon is considered to be the cause and impeller of the Mind. So yeah.

[orage]

Gurdjieff suggests living in willful tension, working with torsion to further growth.


An interesting topic, I'll give a short breakdown and an allegory.

For the longest time it meant overcoming fear and internal programs. What I resist, gives me valuable clues. Nowadays, I can observe my programs, automatic reactions, and chose where to go. I can place myself in willful tension, choosing either to act or to avoid. I can stand above or outside myself (ego) and observe & laugh at my resistance.

Focusing on obstacles unconsciously leads you right into them. What I fear, I attract. Think of riding a motorbike and staring at a tree, racing towards you. If I say, I want to avoid the tree, I want to avoid the tree, next thing I'll hit the tree. If I acknowledge the tree and then focus on a different goal, I will stay on the road. Let alone that of course the tree isn't doing anything, I am.

Working with resistances, taking responsibility for what happens and doesn't happen in my life and realizing that everything serves is my path to growth.

[theperceivingeye]

http://www.montalk.net/matrix/114/food-for-the-moon

[passing]

Similarities between Gurdjieff and David Icke.

Shared belief in ancient knowledge being passed on via secret societies/schools
- but G's version was of essentially benevolent people who are only able to transmit their knowledge to a small group of people of sufficient 'normality'.

Shared belief that symbols and 'brotherhood' art throughout the ages hold important meaning and perhaps power.

A tendency away from the Bible and towards spirtuality more similar to Gnosticism and/or Sufism. ...roughly speaking!!!

And now the idea that organic life (inc. humans of course) is somehow feeding the Moon. :eek:

EDIT:

Abhorrence of war.

A belief that there is an urgent need for people to wake up.

A sense of humour. :)

...

EDIT 2:

Suspicion for and detachment from party politics. (Unless you think G was a spy for one or more countries, as has been suggested but of which I have seen no evidence.)

G's main ally in his well-known middle/later life was Ouspensky, who in the 1920's had written about the Fourth Dimension ...which is also a theme of Icke's work.

...

More later, please add!

...

[cylob]

Gurdjieff explained also that the moon is a computer but it was at the beginning of the 19th century. He said in the sun live lifeforms. He knew much and I just think he received medial informations trough telepathy from other density minds. Don Juan Matus (Carlos Castaneda), Gurdjieff and David Icke are for me one and the same type of mind.

[passing]

Gurdjieff explained also that the moon is a computer but it was at the beginning of the 19th century. He said in the sun live lifeforms. He knew much and I just think he received medial informations trough telepathy from other density minds. Don Juan Matus (Carlos Castaneda), Gurdjieff and David Icke are for me one and the same type of mind.

I saw some speculation that Castaneda may have been in a school in America set up by one of Gurdjieff's disciples/pupils/people, Toomer I think his name was. So there's a vague possibility that Castaneda's work was (partly) a literary offshoot of G's vision. I don't know, but who can say for sure?

What do you mean by lifeforms in the sun? I've never read about that, but then I haven't read quite all of G's books, let alone the unpublished stuff.

[passing]

Similarities between Gurdjieff and David Icke 2


An optimistic view of human potential, plus a pessimistic view of the circumstances in which we live.

p.s. the list of differences would be longer!

[neutron flux]

Although G may have talked about being "food for the moon" - of course this is seen as a metaphor these days for a hyperdimensional reality, i.e. being food in an energetic sense. Another quote:

Gurdjieff taught that most human beings are mere "slugs" with no souls and that following death their remaining psychic energy is "food for the Moon." This teaching can understood as a reference to the doctrine in Gnosticism that the material world keeps human beings (but not all, just the few who possess "sparks of light") trapped in bodies so as to prevent escape. The realm of Darkness is depicted as not wanting to let of its captured light to escape back to the realm of Light. Such a follower of Gnosticism seeks to develop an astral body that can escape the "power of the Moon" and become freed from the "sub-lunar" material world. (12) This explains another very strange teaching of Gurdjieff: "The way of the development of hidden possibilities is a way against nature, against God." (13) It means that the seeker following the way of Gnosticism must gain secret knowledge and methods in order to escape the control of the "Demiurge." What Gurdjieff called "the Work" is the goal of spiritual Alchemy, the "Great Work" (Magnum Opus): the separation of light from darkness--or in Manichean terms, the liberation of "sparks of light" from being trapped in the dense world of matter.

[...]

(12) Gurdjieff was also quoted by his student Ouspensky as saying (in "In Search of the Miraculous," 1949): "Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon. The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon."

This also might she some light on the issue: [as a side note those interested in the 4th way might want to look up Boris Mouravieff, but discard his biblical gloss]

This is one of the more troubling and less explained concepts of the 4th Way. In the 4th Way cosmology, creation proceeds outward and downward from a central point, called Sun Absolute. Creation passes through multiple levels, known as cosmoi or worlds and finally reaches the level corresponding to Earth. Due to special cosmic circumstance , organic life on Earth is necessary for receiving this energy of creation and transforming this into a form that is passed further along, to 'feed' the 'moon,' which is said to be growing. All this is seen as a natural process where organic Earth life, including man, performs a function in a cosmic organism, a little like bacteria perform a function in the human digestive system. The fact of mankind collectively being required to produce certain 'vibrations' or 'energies' for serving various cosmic purposes is stressed throughout Gurdjieff's Beelzebub's Tales. So called planetary influences cause mankind to fight wars and endure cataclysms so that a certain quota of energy release be fulfilled and the 'moon fed.'

Exactly what the moon represents is not described in much detail. The food in question is described as vibrations generated by intense human experience, for example the experience of violent death. While being food is inescapable, man may still modulate the quality of his contribution to the cosmic demand of vibrations. With man being less and less conscious, nature found it necessary to substitute quantity for quality of vibrations, thus leading to population explosion and increased incidence of natural catastrophy and war. From Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson:

""And so, my dear Hassein, when it appeared that the instinctive need for conscious labor and intentional suffering in order to be able to take in and transmute in themselves the sacred substances Abrustdonis and Helkdonis and thereby to liberate the sacred Askokin for the maintenance of the Moon and Anulios had finally disappeared from the psyche of your favorites, then Great Nature Herself was constrained to adapt Herself to extract this sacred substance by other means, one of which is precisely that periodic terrifying process there of reciprocal destruction."

Gurdjieff is not alone in proposing that man feeds something else. In the following we will make a quick tour of various other sources' take on the matter:

In archaic Christianity, in the the Gospel of Thomas we have:

(60) They saw> a Samaritan carrying a lamb, who was going to Judaea. He said to his disciples: (What will) this man (do) with the lamb? They said to him: Kill it and eat it. He said to them: While it is alive he will not eat it, but (only) when he kills it (and) it becomes a corpse. They said to him: Otherwise he cannot do it. He said to them: You also, seek a place for yourselves in rest, that you may not become a corpse and be eaten.

This is at some variance with the theme of the good shepherd. This is understandable though, since the Nag Hammadi texts had not gone through the centuries of selective editing undergone by the rest of the Bible. Even so, this may be interpreted in countless allegoric ways. The core of the matter is that man is food only insofar he is "dead," which we may interpret as mechanical, without consciousness.

Castaneda, in his last book, The Active Side of Infinity, speaks of a cosmic predator that uses man as food: Man has a glowing coat of awareness which the predator eats, leaving just the bare minimum of "consciousness stuff" for man to remain physically alive. The predator "milks" man through arranging for constant trouble and crisis and senseless preoccupation, so as to generate flashes of awareness that it then proceeds to eat. "Seek a place for yourselves in rest in Thomas above means do not waste "soul stuff" for feeding the predator. In other words, do not react mechanically to whatever the world throws at you, or, yet in other words, "remember yourself."

Boris Mouravieff, drawing on Gurdjieff and possibly Eastern Orthodox monastic tradition, states the following:

"This task is crushing. Under normal conditions of peace, insufficient quantities of energy are transmitted to the Moon as a result of the work of human society and its surrounding fauna and flora. This necessitates interventions on the part of the Deuterocosmos, which provoke convulsions in the Tritocosmos. The aim of the latter is to increase the energy expended at this level, so as to ensure the nourishment and growth of that cosmic foetus that is the Tessaracosmos. This is, for example, the cosmic origin of wars and revolutions, of epidemics, and of all the other large-scale catastrophes that plague humanity. ... considerable conscious efforts must be made by exterior man on the esoteric plane before man can efficiently contribute as he must - by his own evolution - to the harmonious evolution of the System of Cosmoses."

The Gnostics, who also may have figured among Mouravieff's influences, maintained that the Earth and material creation in general were the product of an evil demiurge, chief of the "archons of darkness" or "princes of the air." Mouravieff calls this being or principle Absolute III and also indirectly identifies it as the Yahweh of the Old Testament, just as the Gnostics did. This Absolute III through various spirits plays humanity against itself as in a game of chess, with the effect of generating vibrations for "feeding the moon."

Various modern channeled sources speak of man being a source of psychic food for various beings. They speak of this as they would of eating bread, as a most obvious state of matters. We'll take Barbara Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn as an example:

"Consciousness vibrates, or can be led to vibrate, at certain electromagnetic frequencies. Electromagnetic energies of consciousness can be influenced to vibrate in a certain way to create a source of food. Just as apples can he prepared and eaten in a variety of ways, consciousness can be prepared and ingested in a variety of ways. Some entities, in the process of their own evolution, began to discover that as they created life and put consciousness into things through modulating the frequencies of forms of consciousness, they could feed themselves; they could keep themselves in charge. They began to Figure out that this is how Prime Creator nourished itself. Prime Creator sends out others to create an electromagnetic frequency of consciousness as a food source for itself. The new owners of this planet had a different appetite and different preferences than the former owners. They nourished themselves with chaos and fear. These things fed them, stimulated them, and kept them in power. These new owners who came here 300,000 years ago are the magnificent beings spoken of in your Bible, in the Babylonian and Sumerian tablets, and in texts all over the world. They came to Earth and rearranged the native human species. They rearranged your DNA in order to have you broadcast within a certain limited frequency band whose frequency could feed them and keep them in power."

The idea is in no wise new, but Marciniak is rather more blunt in talking about matters where Jesus, the Gnostics, Gurdjieff, Mouravieff and even Castaneda found it necessary to tread somewhat carefully.


Also at the modern end, we have the UFO phenomenon. To make sense of the abduction phenomenon we cannot very well claim that this were scientific research. This sounds rather more like a systematic exploitation or breeding program. The phenomenon appears to be partly physical, yet not entirely so. Jacques Vallee states:

"The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them."

As concerns the idea of man being psychic and sometimes physical food, the reader may read up on the abduction phenomenon. This is however extremely confused and we may only say that this is not so by chance.

The practice of sacrifice to various gods goes throughout all ages. The sacrifice phenomenon goes from having a religiously flavored way to eat meat to complicated and ritually strict forms of human sacrifice. In the latter category, the practices of the Aztecs are informative. In Aztec Warfare, Western Warfare Richard Koenigsberg documents how it was a declared purpose of warfare to procure sacrificial victims for feeding the Sun god. The Western powers of WWI engaged in the precisely same activity, however more hypocritically: The author argues that the nations competed in which would sacrifice more young men, so that their blood would nourish the greatness of the nation. The name of the would-be god is changed but the idea remains. The trench battles of WWI were militarily extremely inefficient and costly in casualties. The moon always makes a profit while the nations bleed. The Aztec's peculiarity was that this was openly recognized and they were willing participants in feeding a bloodthirsty god.

Even the most cursory review of diverse cultures and ages points to the theme of man being food. Indeed, this is hard to miss, once one looks. Still, this is the strictest taboo and object of denial, where materialistic man relegates this state of matters either into ignorant past or the fringe realm of cookery.

In modern popular culture we have new renditions of the theme, maybe best exemplified by the Matrix movies. This has a dual effect: On one hand, it creates an automatic association of the theme with the realm of science fiction, a time honored technique of dealing with anything troubling. On the other hand, it provides a modernized version of the ancient theme with at least a partly valid outline of the profile of the question. Thus, as with legend in general, these works speak at different levels to different audiences. Ignorance and denial cannot be overcome by force, thus for man to benefit from any such information there must exist a certain questing spirit. The impulse is generally beneficial but again can get diverted by too much identification with specifics of one story or hero.

The QFS understands that Gurdjieff in his day needed to have recourse to allegory and could not right out say that so-called aliens or 4th density service to self entities used humanity as a sort of natural resource, to be farmed and harvested and kept forever ignorant of their fate. The 'evil magician' parable in Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous comes very close to saying this explicitly, though. In present day popular culture, the Matrix movies are another well known allegory for the same.

What to do about it? Gurdjieff devotes a whole chapter of Beelzebub's Tales to the impossibility of any political solution to the scourge of war. History and present bear witness to the grim correctness of his views. Man should wake up and change. In Castaneda's words, man should no longer honor the contract binding him to the predator. But the predator is internal, as is Gurdjieff's mythical "organ kundabuffer." Such a revolution is in the first place internal, yet it does not necessarily take the form of political pacifism or any other ism. The Gnostics' denouncing of the human condition cost them dearly. Gurdjieff may have taken the lesson of history to heart and refrained from including evil demiurges or bloodthirsty intrusive aliens into his cosmogony because this would on one hand have invited even greater enmity against him and secondly would have diverted attention off the central aspect of the problem: The evolution of man. The situation is not seen as a moralistic punishment for a fall. It is seen as a natural consequence of a state of being, just as it is a natural consequence of being a rabbit to sometimes get eaten by a fox. Freedom exists only on a vertical axis, where man may evolve "being" and thus escape certain otherwise inevitable laws. We might speak of outgrowing a spiritual-ecological niche or of not being "dead," as in the parable of the Gospel of Thomas.

Humanity as a whole cannot escape but groups of individuals can become aware of this situation and find an escape. This is exceedingly rare and QFS understand such an escape to mean 'graduation to 4th density' or accomplishing the 'great work' of the alchemists.

Man's tendency to subjectivity and egocentrism serves to maintain this status quo.

Gurdjieff, as well as the Cassiopaeans, maintains that man was in its earliest history intentionally modified by other forces to become impervious to reality, for better to be used as a tool. The specifics of the stories differ but the common thread is man's subjectivity and wishful thinking being an outside imposition, first genetically, then culturally enforced.

Link (http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Food_for_the_Moon)

[firstlook]

good thread.:)

Im new to this material and individual, but like all Useful information, alot if it seems quite familiar. In a reflection sense of the word.


thanks for the posts everyone.


peace

[2013]

I saw some speculation that Castaneda may have been in a school in America set up by one of Gurdjieff's disciples/pupils/people, Toomer I think his name was. So there's a vague possibility that Castaneda's work was (partly) a literary offshoot of G's vision. I don't know, but who can say for sure?

What do you mean by lifeforms in the sun? I've never read about that, but then I haven't read quite all of G's books, let alone the unpublished stuff.

I used to have a compendium book of psychic news newspapers . They were from around 1920's 30's if i recal correctly . One of the articles stated that there were beings who lived on or in the sun .It said they were androgenous and had four arms and legs and circular bodies! Around the 1930's there was a big interest in spiritual matters maybe due to the previous war and approaching 2nd ww .It was proposed to change the claendar in the 1930'sd to the 13 month moon calendar but the vatican opposed the change .
I have posted before about a series of Time plays by J.B Priestly inspired by P.D Ouspensky written around this time period .

[1977]

G. I. Gurdjieff (in Beelzebub's Tales) also talks about Martians integrating them into the ruling classes of Earth, precisely as David Icke does in The Biggest Secret.

Thus spake Zarathustra and the Spiders From Mars...

But I think that Gurdjieff's teachings come from Greek philosophy, rather than Gnosticism specifically. His stuff about developing the principle of Reason within the Self is very Platonic. But see the Archontics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"They say," records Epiphanius, "that the soul is the food of the Archons and Powers without which they cannot live, because she is of the dew from above and gives them strength. When she has become imbued with knowledge ... she ascends to heaven and gives a defence before each Power and thus mounts beyond them to the upper Mother and Father of the All whence she came down into this world."

The Greek word for the body is soma. Soma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, of course, is also the Indian term for the food of the gods...

[passing]

Another similarity:

This website: "exposing the dreamworld we believe to be real"

Gurdjieff: "To assist the arising, in the mentation and in the feelings of the reader, of a veritable, nonfantastic representation not of that illusory world which he now perceives, but of the world existing in reality." (his description of his intended Third Series of books)

[montag]

Another similarity:

This website: "exposing the dreamworld we believe to be real"

Gurdjieff: "To assist the arising, in the mentation and in the feelings of the reader, of a veritable, nonfantastic representation not of that illusory world which he now perceives, but of the world existing in reality." (his description of his intended Third Series of books)
A major difference though would be that David speaks of a mass awakening (100th monkey) of humanity, whereas G. says that this is not possible, liberation can only be achieved on an individual basis or in small groups..

[passing]

A major difference though would be that David speaks of a mass awakening (100th monkey) of humanity, whereas G. says that this is not possible, liberation can only be achieved on an individual basis or in small groups..

Fair point. But in Gurdjieff's day there was no mass communication as we now know it. He was often on the run from dangerous political situations (wars/revolutions) with only a tight-knit group, sometimes even in hiding.

G does say that knowledge is a finite resource, that the more it is spread around the less each person can have, which is something I am still struggling to evaluate.

But perhaps both sides of your either/or could be true?

[montag]

Fair point. But in Gurdjieff's day there was no mass communication as we now know it. He was often on the run from dangerous political situations (wars/revolutions) with only a tight-knit group, sometimes even in hiding.

G does say that knowledge is a finite resource, that the more it is spread around the less each person can have, which is something I am still struggling to evaluate.

But perhaps both sides of your either/or could be true?
I find the concept of a mass awakening difficult to come to terms with, it takes most of my energy just to remain semi-conscious let alone fully awakened. And when I look around me and what I see in the world are machines exactly how G. describes them, beings merely reacting but rarely if ever acting, I despair and wonder how a mass awakening could come about.


There is another kind of mechanization which is much more dangerous: being a machine oneself. Have you ever thought about the fact that all peoples themselves are machines?"

"Yes," I said, "from the strictly scientific point of view all people are machines governed by external influences. But the question is, can the scientific point of view be wholly accepted?"

"Scientific or not scientific is all the same to me," said G. "I want you to understand what I am saying. Look, all those people you see," he pointed along the street, "are simply machines—nothing more."

"I think I understand what you mean," I said. "And I have often thought how little there is in the world that can stand against this form of mechanization and choose its own path."

"This is just where you make your greatest mistake," said G. "You think there is something that chooses its own path, something that can stand against mechanization; you think that not everything is equally mechanical."

"Why, of course not!" I said. "Art, poetry, thought, are phenomena of quite a different order."

"Of exactly the same order," said G. "These activities are just as mechanical as everything else. Men are machines and nothing but mechanical actions can be expected of machines."

"Very well," I said. "But are there no people who are not machines?"

"It may be that there are," said G., "only not those people you see. And you do not know them. That is what I want you to understand."

I thought it rather strange that he should be so insistent on this point. What he said seemed to me obvious and incontestable. At the same time, I had never liked such short and all-embracing metaphors. They always omitted points of difference. I, on the other hand, had always maintained differences were the most important thing and that in order to understand things it was first necessary to see the points in which they differed. So I felt that it was odd that G. insisted on an idea which seemed to be obvious provided it were not made too absolute and exceptions were admitted.

"People are so unlike one another," I said. "I do not think it would be possible to bring them all under the same heading. There are savages, there are mechanized people, there are intellectual people, there are geniuses."

"Quite right," said G., "people are very unlike one another, but the real difference between people you do not know and cannot see. The difference of which you speak simply does not exist. This must be understood. All the people you see, all the people you know, all the people you may get to know, are machines, actual machines working solely under the power of external influences, as you yourself said. Machines they are born and machines they die. How do savages and intellectuals come into this? Even now, at this very moment, while we are talking, several millions of machines are trying to annihilate one another. What is the difference between them? Where are the savages and where are the intellectuals? They are all alike . . .

"But there is a possibility of ceasing to be a machine. It is of this we must think and not about the different kinds of machines that exist. Of course there are different machines; a motorcar is a machine, a gramophone is a machine, and a gun is a machine. But what of it? It is the same thing—they are all machines."

[passing]

I find the concept of a mass awakening difficult to come to terms with, it takes most of my energy just to remain semi-conscious let alone fully awakened. And when I look around me and what I see in the world are machines exactly how G. describes them, beings merely reacting but rarely if ever acting, I despair and wonder how a mass awakening could come about.

'Mass awakening' is a concept I had not encountered until reading Icke (and this forum). It's a nice idea, an appealing idea, but like you I find it difficult to come to terms with... because it sounds like a utopian fantasy or grand 'miracle'.

From a Gurdjieffian point of view, I think it could be said that the despair you mention comes from identification with the appealing idea of mass awakening, plus identification with other people and the apparent hopelessness of their/our/your situation.

As Robert Fripp (Gurdjieffian) put it: "Remain in hell without despair". :)

[guuna]

Nice one. :)

I've mentioned Gurdjieff a few times around here, having found a great deal of useful information in his writings (and Ouspensky's), but nobody seems interested.

It's complicated, multi-faceted stuff, and he did deliberately write in an obscure style so you have to WORK to get at meanings. He had a great sense of humour, too, and I'm convinced he included red herrings to uncover unthinking followers - for example, what is the status of the supposed 'parody' of Darwinism in Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson, where he says that monkeys evolved from humans thanks to women having sex with dogs?

I hope people will check him out, not because I think he's got 'the answer' but because much of the focus of his work is on self-improvement in ways that just about anyone who thinks about it can manage and gain from.

I've known of Gurdjieff since reading Colin Wilson's The Occult quite some years ago.

the thrust of his moon theory is that the moon was an evolving world, and has an almost parasitic relationship with life on earth, hence we are in a sense 'food for the moon'.

[sekuru]

[QUOTE=passing;1058765980]'Mass awakening' is a concept I had not encountered until reading Icke (and this forum). It's a nice idea, an appealing idea, but like you I find it difficult to come to terms with... because it sounds like a utopian fantasy or grand 'miracle'.

...
I have been studying the evolution of human consciousness from numerous intellectual and spiritual view points and I enjoy listening to others as they become aware of this fundamental process which is at work in all sentient life. I think that all beings wish to improve the quality of their own consciousness.

To bring about an enhanced awareness on a mass level one ought to comprehend fully that this is a matter of affecting the vibratory oscillation of energy fields. The density of the physical causal 3 dimensional reality holds that vibrational frequency in stasis so to speek, and as enlightenment gains momentum there is a corresponding increase in the speed at which consciousness vibrates.

So, to the question of mass awakening. Each awakened individual acts like a catalyst because the energy bodies of all beings interpentrate and therefore affect one another. So by working on one's own energy a person can affect the vibrational frequency of the energy of those around them. This is a natural process.

As David Icke says...the bandwidth of the reality that mankind's awareness has been constrained within for so long is being supersceded by the evolution of mankinds consciousness. Mankind is being propelled onward along its path in this process.

To quote Christa Faye Burka (someone who understand this process well):

"Transformation is a process of shedding all that we thought we were, to experience who we really are. Many people are able to allow this process to unfold naturally and are able to make the necessary inner shifts as well as the external adjustments in their life. Other people experience more difficulty with the process and require assistance and guidance from others...
As transformation is a natural process, it will evolve organically with its own momentum. The process itself is to be trusted as deeply as we trust the sun to rise each day and the the leaves to fall in autumn...
There exists within all natural process an innate integrity which defines and determines the precise movement of energies for a particular process...
Becoming conscious is the process of learning to live less and less from a structured belief system to living more and more in pure experience...
To live within a belief structure is to experience life in the mind. To live life with trust is to experience life in the heart."

Christa wrote: Clearing Crystal Consciousness; Pearls of Consciousness; The LifeCrystal. Her site is: www.lifecrystal.com - She shall be at the Spiritualist Church in St Ives, Cambridgeshire at 7pm on 5 June 2010, to deliver her first ever teaching in the UK. Tickets available from me. Leave a post if you're interested.

[dontbeafraid]

G. I. Gurdjieff is a shill and a gatekeeper. When you personally see what the moon matrix is, you will know he is a gatekeepr and walk right by everything he says.

The moon matrix defends itself. It does'nt do what it does without a system of defense. It has many defenses. One of them is, it uses the souls it collects by imparting implanted "wisdom" which is then sent to the rest of lazy mankind, who are too busy playing the game and feeding their egos to actually find their soul and go take a look at the moon matrix for themselves. The whole planet is following what a few people tell them. It is time to become doubting Thomases and find your soul and see everything for yourself.
There is no spoon, and more importantly, there is no guru.

[passing]

G. I. Gurdjieff is a shill and a gatekeeper. When you personally see what the moon matrix is, you will know he is a gatekeepr and walk right by everything he says.

The moon matrix defends itself. It does'nt do what it does without a system of defense. It has many defenses. One of them is, it uses the souls it collects by imparting implanted "wisdom" which is then sent to the rest of lazy mankind, who are too busy playing the game and feeding their egos to actually find their soul and go take a look at the moon matrix for themselves. The whole planet is following what a few people tell them. It is time to become doubting Thomases and find your soul and see everything for yourself.
There is no spoon, and more importantly, there is no guru.

A century ago, Gurdjieff was a shill for what? A gatekeeper for/of what/whom?

Some people think he was born in East London, others that he was a British/Russian double/triple-agent, or a guru or an anti-guru or both, or a total charlatan with a sense of humour, or a philanthropic genius with a sense of mischief... etc etc etc.

Having never met him or anyone associated with him, and having never attended any groups or meetings, all I have to go on are books by him and about him, plus my own experiences of 'using' some of his suggestions.

I am waiting to get hold of Icke's new book and read about this Moon Matrix thing, so bear with me - in the meantime, perhaps you could explain your shill/gatekeeper comment, please?

[passing]

"...There exists within all natural process an innate integrity which defines and determines the precise movement of energies for a particular process...
Becoming conscious is the process of learning to live less and less from a structured belief system to living more and more in pure experience...
To live within a belief structure is to experience life in the mind. To live life with trust is to experience life in the heart."


Fine :)

And or but ...we constantly have to overcome friction, that's a minimum of useful effort before we can try to 'do' anything.

[sekuru]

“There do exist enquiring minds, which long for the truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of things and phenomena and to penetrate into themselves. If a man reasons and thinks soundly, no matter which path he follows in solving these problems, he must inevitably arrive back at himself, and begin with the solution of the problem of what he is himself and what his place is in the world around him.”

G. I. Gurdjieff

To experience life through the mind, in the realm of relative knowledge, I am restricted to descrimintaing between objects and considering their relationships between eachother and myself. I can accumulate a vast reserve of relative knowledge and still remain where I was and never get to resolve the duality within myself which I keeps manifesting in my external life.

There exist no questions to which we do not already know the answers, but were are all caught up in a duality dance at a mental level, of seeking answers to the pressing questions of existence.

Whilst our consciousness slowly gets up from the floor, pulling itself up, thread by thread by the knowledge we are accumulating in our seeking of truth, we fail to realise that we were never on the floor in the first place - it is all an illusion.

"There are four kinds of knowledge: appearance knowledge, relative knowledge, perfect knowledge, and transcendental intelligence. Appearance knowledge belongs to the foolish, who are addicted to the notion of being and non-being, and who are frightened of letting this notion go. Appearance knowledge is loved by word-mongers, who revel in discriminating between things, and in making assertions about the nature of things.

Relative knowledge belongs to the thinking of philosophers. They like to consider the relationship between one object and another, and the relationship between an object and the subject observing it. In considering the relationships they use the mind's ability to find patterns and to make logical deductions.

Perfect knowledge belongs to enlightened people, who recognise that all things are figments of the mind; who understand the emptiness of all things; and who have passed through the five levels of understanding. Perfect knowledge belongs to enlightened people who are entirely free from the dualism of being and non-being, birth and death and of assertion and negation. They no longer see the world as subject to causation; they regard causation as a fable. To them the world is like a dream; it is the birth and death of a barren woman's child. To them nothing is evolving and nothing is disappearing."

Lankavatara Sutra

[passing]

Sekuru, those are good quotes. Am I expected to make a comparison of these apples and those oranges, which are all fruits?

"To experience life through the mind..." is not a good characterisation of Gurdjieff, if that's what you were aiming at, since he explicitly adressed the very basics of human experience as a combination of mind, body and emotion (or thinking, instinct and feeling).

We don't have to squeeze one system's 'four kinds of knowledge' into another's three, do we?

[sekuru]

Sekuru, those are good quotes. Am I expected to make a comparison of these apples and those oranges, which are all fruits?

"To experience life through the mind..." is not a good characterisation of Gurdjieff, if that's what you were aiming at, since he explicitly adressed the very basics of human experience as a combination of mind, body and emotion (or thinking, instinct and feeling).

We don't have to squeeze one system's 'four kinds of knowledge' into another's three, do we?


Gurdjieff cannot be characterised by anything that I have have written in my own discourse. His own words speek for themselves, as do the words of the Lankavatara Sutra. I am simply declining to repeat saying the same things and propose to lead the discussion to a place where the subject matter can be linked with new data. Whether you make a fruit salad or not is up to you...

[passing]

Whether you make a fruit salad or not is up to you...

Why stop now? ;)

[sekuru]

“There do exist enquiring minds, which long for the truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of things and phenomena and to penetrate into themselves. If a man reasons and thinks soundly, no matter which path he follows in solving these problems, he must inevitably arrive back at himself, and begin with the solution of the problem of what he is himself and what his place is in the world around him.”

G. I. Gurdjieff

To experience life through the mind, in the realm of relative knowledge, I am restricted to descrimintaing between objects and considering their relationships between eachother and myself. I can accumulate a vast reserve of relative knowledge and still remain where I was and never get to resolve the duality within myself which I keeps manifesting in my external life.

There exist no questions to which we do not already know the answers, but were are all caught up in a duality dance at a mental level, of seeking answers to the pressing questions of existence.

Whilst our consciousness slowly gets up from the floor, pulling itself up, thread by thread by the knowledge we are accumulating in our seeking of truth, we fail to realise that we were never on the floor in the first place - it is all an illusion.

"There are four kinds of knowledge: appearance knowledge, relative knowledge, perfect knowledge, and transcendental intelligence. Appearance knowledge belongs to the foolish, who are addicted to the notion of being and non-being, and who are frightened of letting this notion go. Appearance knowledge is loved by word-mongers, who revel in discriminating between things, and in making assertions about the nature of things.

Relative knowledge belongs to the thinking of philosophers. They like to consider the relationship between one object and another, and the relationship between an object and the subject observing it. In considering the relationships they use the mind's ability to find patterns and to make logical deductions.

Perfect knowledge belongs to enlightened people, who recognise that all things are figments of the mind; who understand the emptiness of all things; and who have passed through the five levels of understanding. Perfect knowledge belongs to enlightened people who are entirely free from the dualism of being and non-being, birth and death and of assertion and negation. They no longer see the world as subject to causation; they regard causation as a fable. To them the world is like a dream; it is the birth and death of a barren woman's child. To them nothing is evolving and nothing is disappearing."

Lankavatara Sutra


"Your problem is that you want to understand everything, and that is not possible. If you insist on understanding you're not considering your entire lot as a human being. Your tumbling block is intact. Therefore, you have done almost nothing in all these years. You have been shaken out of your total slumber, true, but that could have been accomplished anyway by other circumstances...You are chained to your reason!"
Don Juan

[passing]

"Your problem is that you want to understand everything, and that is not possible. If you insist on understanding you're not considering your entire lot as a human being. Your tumbling block is intact. Therefore, you have done almost nothing in all these years. You have been shaken out of your total slumber, true, but that could have been accomplished anyway by other circumstances...You are chained to your reason!"
Don Juan

I have a lot of respect for the first 4 or 5 or 6 of Castaneda's books ...and a big pinch of salt.

[sekuru]

The later books got into some very "other dimensional reality" data which, as I was not familiar with alternative reality frames, were particularly mind boggling at the time. I have since been able to construct references within my own experiental data banks that allow me to understand this better. Dr Thomas Campbell explains it better:

Dr Thomas Campbell - My Big TOE (2 of 18) - YouTube

[troii]

So I was thinking that Gurdjieff was part of the Illuminati/NWO esoteric wing because his whole shtick is about being a happy little complacent slave to the moon or w/e also bump. It seems like Aleister Crowley is the dark pillar and Gurdjieff is the light pillar in Luciferian Mindset, see this thread for detail on Luciferian Mindset or gaze upon this picture.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145094&highlight=luciferian+pillar
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8748/luciferian2chart.jpg

[passing]

So I was thinking that Gurdjieff was part of the Illuminati/NWO esoteric wing because his whole shtick is about being a happy little complacent slave to the moon or w/e also bump.

I don't understand the "or w/e also bump", but Gurdjieff's 'whole shtick' was about how to stop being a slave (aka 'asleep').

[beldazar]

Yeah, like i said, the Moon may act like a Psychic Mop, clearing or absorbing very toxic and negative emotional excretions of the inhabitants of Earth, but humanity does not exist to feed the Moon, thats just nonsense. Humanity, by its ignorance and its warring, could indeed be serving up a 21 course meal to the Moon, but thats going to change for the better soon (so is the hope)


I respectfully would say "rubbish".
Organic life is primarily because of the presence of the Sun. And of course the Earth itself isint called Mother Earth just like that.
In all the planets with inhabited with intelligent 3D life out there,
they all HAVE TO HAVE A SUN around which the planet rotates.
A Moon i would think is optional.


In Vedic Astrology the Moon is considered to be the cause and impeller of the Mind. So yeah.

I disagree with you here. I think the most important thing to grasp this is to remember the nature of our 'reality'.

A while back I made a thread which suggests that the pituitary gland is our inner moon which in turn governs the material body.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114496

[troii]

I don't understand the "or w/e also bump", but Gurdjieff's 'whole shtick' was about how to stop being a slave (aka 'asleep').

bump because this thread is like a year old
bring
up
my
post
is an acronym of sorts

Ya I sort of guess Gurdjieff's teaching is about waking up but what about all this illuminati new world order stuff, isn't it just a little bit convenient that this guy brings in some teaching that essentially tells us that we are meant to suffer for the moon? I think he could be part of the illuminati new world order esoteric wing. According to hidden hand the illuminati has that sort of thing.

http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html

For instance if I remember correctly George Orwell was one of them and his book 1984 was a disclosure/flaunting/taunting/act of hubris.

David Icke talks about the moon. His shtick is about the "elite" of this world being aliens. It has been a wile since I have seen David's stuff but I am fairly certain that when he talks about the moon he says it is an artificial construct almost an alien death star of sorts except it is not meant to instantaneously destroy a planet but be like a leech to it and the life on it. So some aliens have enslaved us via the moon for something that we can not really comprehend but is essentially food for them.

Gurdjieff says the the moon was once part of the Earth but flew off because of an asteroid or something and now it is a developing planet that will one day be like the Earth and that human beings must give energies to the moon, be food for the moon. Our whole existence is to suffer, which releases a certain kind of energy that feeds the moon. If man is asleep then man will have wars and the like which forcefully gives off this energy. If you die a violent death you will produce the energy. If man is awake he can actively give this energy off threw means I am not sure of. Humans were implanted with a "kundabuffer" to hinder spiritual growth so that we would not learn of our predicament as we would not want to continue doing this if we could by some really high up spiritual high density beings. The "kundabuffer" also did some other things but it was removed yet despite its removal continued to be past on to other generations. I have a feeling that the "kundabuffer" is our sex organs. I'm not very well versed in Gurdjieff stuff so you or someone else may and should correct me. He sees the only possible way to change the human condition is to have an updated "kundabuffer" installed where we have a feeling all the time that we will die and everyone we see will also die.

So essentially Gurdjieff is like you can be an ignorant slave or an active slave but you have a chance to win the lottery and get out of this existence some how. It is very very hard to get out of this existence but it is possible threw the work or another path.

On the contrary it does seem to make sense in what Gurdjieff talks about because we all suffer even if we are super rich and have everything we want and will still die and we all have been doing this for all of human history and probably during prehistory or herstory. Also the main reason for humans being in the situation that they are is to keep balance in the Universe because if we do not suffer it will be fatal to the moon and will cause imbalance in the Universe. That is why Nikola Tesla's inventions were covered up because it would cause an imbalance in the Universe. This is why all governments fuck over the people. So you must have a certain level of suffering constantly on the Earth for the Moon that is why what ever man does it goes to shit and people just suffer.

But I don't think our purpose is to suffer for the moon, it seems to illuminati new world order-esc to be true. But then again perhaps it is the ultimate service to others act, suffering for the moon. But then again that is just a bit like slavery and seems like some sneaky cheeky info that we got from some enigmatic mystic. But then again if I can get this information million-billionares and the governments could get this information and that is why all corporations and governments go out of their way to cause suffering. But then again they cause suffering for simply their materialistic means and love of power. Will the power of love conquer the love of power and end suffering? Is life in any form about suffering? I heard that if you are spiritually evolved you can just live off the energies of the universe and not have to kill animals or plants for food. But then where do those energies come from? Do they come from the suffering of other beings on other planets?

It seems like there must be balance in the Universe and that because we are at the end of an age, the iron age, the most negative of all ages we are suffering a lot. We are going into a golden age and perhaps during gold and silver ages we suffer much less then bronze and iron ages. But then again these ages may just be in reference to our spiritual awareness and if you are spiritually aware you would know that everything in the universe is one and that nothing is evolving dieing or living because it is all part of the whole so it just keeps going around and around in a cycle and "everyone" takes a turn at everything but really there's only one so the taking the turn is just an illusion.

I know super cool story.:cool:

[passing]

bump because this thread is like a year old
bring
up
my
post
is an acronym of sorts

Ya I sort of guess Gurdjieff's teaching is about waking up but what about all this illuminati new world order stuff, isn't it just a little bit convenient that this guy brings in some teaching that essentially tells us that we are meant to suffer for the moon? I think he could be part of the illuminati new world order esoteric wing. According to hidden hand the illuminati has that sort of thing.

http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html

For instance if I remember correctly George Orwell was one of them and his book 1984 was a disclosure/flaunting/taunting/act of hubris.

David Icke talks about the moon. His shtick is about the "elite" of this world being aliens. It has been a wile since I have seen David's stuff but I am fairly certain that when he talks about the moon he says it is an artificial construct almost an alien death star of sorts except it is not meant to instantaneously destroy a planet but be like a leech to it and the life on it. So some aliens have enslaved us via the moon for something that we can not really comprehend but is essentially food for them.

Gurdjieff says the the moon was once part of the Earth but flew off because of an asteroid or something and now it is a developing planet that will one day be like the Earth and that human beings must give energies to the moon, be food for the moon. Our whole existence is to suffer, which releases a certain kind of energy that feeds the moon. If man is asleep then man will have wars and the like which forcefully gives off this energy. If you die a violent death you will produce the energy. If man is awake he can actively give this energy off threw means I am not sure of. Humans were implanted with a "kundabuffer" to hinder spiritual growth so that we would not learn of our predicament as we would not want to continue doing this if we could by some really high up spiritual high density beings. The "kundabuffer" also did some other things but it was removed yet despite its removal continued to be past on to other generations. I have a feeling that the "kundabuffer" is our sex organs. I'm not very well versed in Gurdjieff stuff so you or someone else may and should correct me. He sees the only possible way to change the human condition is to have an updated "kundabuffer" installed where we have a feeling all the time that we will die and everyone we see will also die.

So essentially Gurdjieff is like you can be an ignorant slave or an active slave but you have a chance to win the lottery and get out of this existence some how. It is very very hard to get out of this existence but it is possible threw the work or another path.

On the contrary it does seem to make sense in what Gurdjieff talks about because we all suffer even if we are super rich and have everything we want and will still die and we all have been doing this for all of human history and probably during prehistory or herstory. Also the main reason for humans being in the situation that they are is to keep balance in the Universe because if we do not suffer it will be fatal to the moon and will cause imbalance in the Universe. That is why Nikola Tesla's inventions were covered up because it would cause an imbalance in the Universe. This is why all governments fuck over the people. So you must have a certain level of suffering constantly on the Earth for the Moon that is why what ever man does it goes to shit and people just suffer.

But I don't think our purpose is to suffer for the moon, it seems to illuminati new world order-esc to be true. But then again perhaps it is the ultimate service to others act, suffering for the moon. But then again that is just a bit like slavery and seems like some sneaky cheeky info that we got from some enigmatic mystic. But then again if I can get this information million-billionares and the governments could get this information and that is why all corporations and governments go out of their way to cause suffering. But then again they cause suffering for simply their materialistic means and love of power. Will the power of love conquer the love of power and end suffering? Is life in any form about suffering? I heard that if you are spiritually evolved you can just live off the energies of the universe and not have to kill animals or plants for food. But then where do those energies come from? Do they come from the suffering of other beings on other planets?

It seems like there must be balance in the Universe and that because we are at the end of an age, the iron age, the most negative of all ages we are suffering a lot. We are going into a golden age and perhaps during gold and silver ages we suffer much less then bronze and iron ages. But then again these ages may just be in reference to our spiritual awareness and if you are spiritually aware you would know that everything in the universe is one and that nothing is evolving dieing or living because it is all part of the whole so it just keeps going around and around in a cycle and "everyone" takes a turn at everything but really there's only one so the taking the turn is just an illusion.

I know super cool story.:cool:

I think that's a pretty good summary (including the questions)... as I understand it, the 'suffering' is said to result from our planet's distance from the centre/creator, which means we live under so many cosmic laws that freedom is very hard to acheive. But the core idea is that escape is possible; that a few people (working together) can slip out from mortality and all those cosmic laws. That's where it all gets very esoteric and hard to follow, mainly because info on that stuff is not presented in commercially available books (i.e. you have to be in a group, a Fourth Way school or whatever, which I have not gone near and won't because it seems to be just another breeding-ground for conflict and competing imaginations. If Gurdjieff was still in France and inviting people, I'd go there :D but he died a long time ago...)

Er, back in a bit...

p.s. the 'kundabuffer' is from Beelzebub's Tales, right? I don't think it's to be taken literally, although it is hard to say :)

[truepositive]

Thats quite interesting, thanks for posting :)
Also on a sidenote, because im tad lazy, and because its really really hard to read everything that is 'important', i love it if people summarize like this. Even if its probably bound to get some details wrong.

Keep em coming ;)