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the moral man
07-03-2010, 02:59 PM
Dear Friends
kind regards
I have a genuine topic to discuss in regards to the holocaust revision movement.
I have been reading up on the holocaust revisionists who deny the validity of the holocaust and have Nazi sympathies.
Two of the most famous holocaust deniers David Irving and Ernst Zundel have somewhat of a Jewish background.
David Cole was a Jewish holocaust revisionist in this field also.
What exactly is going on here?
Why are people with a Jewish background denying the Jewish holocaust?
If you could help me with this query I'd appreciate it.
yours thankfully
John

gallifrey
07-03-2010, 03:03 PM
Well, I am sitting neither side of the fence on this. But I would hope that if anyone takes a position on a subject such as this, it would be because they have something to back it up as a truth, regardless of their ethnic/religious background.

The fact that it is being touted by people of a Jewish heritage simply makes it more surprising, and therefore outstanding among other revisionists.

I shall have to read up myself on this subject.

EDIT: I should point out that although not Jewish myself, I am of Jewish heritage, far enough back along the line.

the moral man
07-03-2010, 03:04 PM
David Irving Is Jewish!
Assembled by John "Birdman" Bryant


A Footnote of Irony
By Germar Rudolf

The Revisionist · 2004 · Volume 2 · No. 2 · p. 122


A few weeks ago I met Dietmar Munier in Chicago, owner of the medium-sized publishing company Arndt in Kiel, northern Germany. He was hunting original color photographs of the Third Reich era for his many upcoming book projects, and while visiting archives in the United States, he decided to stop by and meet me so that we could discuss several future book publishing projects. Since Munier published several very interesting and important books on the history of the Second World War in particular as well as the years preceding, I hope to be able to publish English language editions of some of these books shortly.



One series of some five books addresses several aspects of the German-Russian war between 1941-1945. Another series features a collection of great color photos of various theaters of the Second World War; yet another series contains heavily illustrated books focusing on peacetime Germany before the war. As you can imagine, publishing such a large number of fine books requires some financial backing, which is why things may progress only slowly initially. But with a little luck, I may acquire an investor willing to put his money where his mouth is, so that these fine books can be offered to the English-speaking world soon.

During dinner, Herr Munier casually talked about various of his past, present, and future projects. While so doing, he touched briefly upon a project he had carried out several years ago: a Festschrift on the occasion of David Irving’s 60th birthday. Subtitled Historians in Handcuffs (see illustration) and recounting David Irving’s own painful experience, this 1998 book included contributions from a long list of highly renowned German scholars. One personality, however, whose article was originally planned to be included as well, was finally not represented: Ralf Hochhuth, author of the (in)famous play Der Stellvertreter (The Deputy). In this play, Hochhuth had turned the so-called confessions of Kurt Gerstein about his alleged activities at the purported extermination camp Belzec into a worldwide theater success, popularizing one of the most outrageous pieces of evidentiary nonsense on the ‘Holocaust’.

The reason Hochhuth’s article was not printed was that it contained many statements about Irving that were closer to unfounded ad hominem attacks than to the kind of statements one would expect in a Festschrift. One of Hochhuth’s statements about Irving piqued the publisher’s interest most intensely, and that was his claim that Irving’s mother was Jewish. Herr Munier inquired about this in disbelief, but David Irving happily confirmed it: yes, his mother was Jewish, but he was never interested in this fact, nor was he raised within the Jewish tradition. He therefore never considered it to have any relevance. Thus, according to orthodox Jewish tradition, David Irving is a Jew, plain and simple.

The interesting questions arising from this are: Why did Ralf Hochhuth want to blow the whistle on Irving in this regard? Had he an interest in undermining Irving’s financial basis by hoping to cut him off from some of his supporters who are anti-Semitic to the point where they would reject Irving because of this? And why was this fact never mentioned by anybody? Why was it not raised during Irving’s libel case against Lipstadt? I bet all sides knew that an atheist Jew (Irving) was fighting against orthodox Jews (Lipstadt, van Pelt, and others). It was, and continues to be, a case of Jewish in-fighting, if you wish to label it that way.

Of course, Holocaust promoters can have no interest in advertising that the “main exponent” of “Holocaust Denial” is a Jew. Oy vey, what a publicity disaster that would be! (Even though Irving is, strictly seen, not even a Holocaust revisionist, but merely a benevolent observer.)

At the end of the day, one can argue that it doesn’t matter what heritage Irving’s mother had, at least not in regard to where the historical truth is to be found. But for many individuals it might make a difference in their personal attitude toward revisionism.

For me personally, this is only an interesting, curious, ironic footnote, the most interesting aspect being the reactions of others to this revelation.

1. http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/NetLoss/Irving/Irving-IrvingIsJewish-GermarRudolf.html

rodin
07-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Dear Friends
kind regards
I have a genuine topic to discuss in regards to the holocaust revision movement.
I have been reading up on the holocaust revisionists who deny the validity of the holocaust and have Nazi sympathies.
Two of the most famous holocaust deniers David Irving and Ernst Zundel have somewhat of a Jewish background.
David Cole was a Jewish holocaust revisionist in this field also.
What exactly is going on here?
Why are people with a Jewish background denying the Jewish holocaust?
If you could help me with this query I'd appreciate it.
yours thankfully
John

ha ha interesting points you make there

Irving is already suspect IMO as I have said to you before - though I didn't know about his Jewish mother. Cole I don't know - he did brilliant work (it seems) then was pretty much shut up. The rate his videos get removed from You Tube suggests 'they' really don't like what he says.

I like to think Cole genuine - a Jew who stuck his neck out for humanity and truth.

One must remember the deceptions and swindles being played are very, very well worked out. It's always going to be hard to get at definitive truths. This is why 911 was such a mistake - the fraud can be proven forensically, easily, and by anyone with a little skill and intelligence. Unless 911 was not a mistake and a patsy (the US) is being set up to take the blame.

Also it must be remembered that most of the goyim simply hadn't a clue what was going on. The great Douglas Reed learned to understand the great Jewish conspiracy in great depth, but even he did not get around to seriously considering the Holocaust may have been a hoax. Maybe a few good Jews understood method and motive (insiders if you like) and saw through the deception quicker.

Also I wonder if unmasking a Jewish conspiracy and putting Jews in apparent or real danger is not a ploy of the Sanhedrin. Remember Herzl said they would use antisemitism to manipulate the world. Funny how Hitler and Stalin together managed to push Jews into Israel and waste tens of millions of Christians in a useless war, only to have a Marxist world emerge afterwards (still consolidating now)

the moral man
07-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Wed, March 2, 2005
COLUMNIST
The Jewish card

By MARK BONOKOSKI

Back when Ernst Zundel was first weighing the real likelihood of his deportation to his German homeland, and his immediate arrest upon arrival for hate crimes, he considered announcing to the world that he was a Jew so he could exercise the "right of return" to Israel, where Holocaust denial laws had yet to exist.

Today they do.

Under Jewish law, any child born to a Jewish mother is considered a Jew, regardless of the father's religion or nationality, and Ernst Zundel's mother was Gertrude Mayer, daughter of Nagal and Isadore (Izzy) Mayer, a union organizer for the garment industry in the primarily Jewish Bavarian town of Augsburg.

It was Zundel's planned entry card into Israel.

According to ex-wife Irene Zundel, the possibility that Jewish blood coursed through Zundel's veins at first bothered the future author of The Hitler We Loved and Why so much that he returned to Germany during the '60s to look for his family's "einpass" -- the certificate Hitler doled out to those born of pure Aryan stock.

But no such certificate could be found.

Zundel alludes to this futile search as giving him "a little fright there in the '60s" during a 1997 interview with Tsadok Yecheskeli, the New Jersey-based correspondent for the Israeli Hebrew newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth.

A videotape of that interview became evidence after Irene Zundel testified against her ex-husband years ago at the Canadian Human Rights Commission hearings into his anti-Semitic and hate-fostering website, a copy of which was recently obtained by the Sun.

She also told investigators of how Zundel planned to use his "Jewishness" to get him into Israel if it looked like he was bound for a jail cell in Germany.

And then Israel brought in Holocaust denial legislation.

The tape was shot in Zundel's former bunker-like headquarters on the east end of Toronto's Carlton St., and not long after two incidents which centred on that fortress -- the alleged arson attack on his home and headquarters, and the arrival of a pipebomb which he claimed was delivered in the mail.

What follows is an excerpt from that tape.

It comes directly after Zundel talks of his father being an ambulance medic who "would go behind the front lines to pick up the wounded and near-dead, and bring them back to Germany.''

Yecheskeli: "And other relatives?"

Zundel: "If you are fishing for any political information, my father was a Social Democrat, my mother a simple Christian woman. Her father had been a union organizer in Bavaria, and of the garment workers' union. His name got him into trouble because it was Isadore Mayer and, of course, he was called Izzy by his people and the people thought he ... "

Yecheskeli: "Was Jewish?"

Zundel: "No, I don't ... don't think so."

Yecheskeli: "You don't have any ... "

Zundel: (Laughter) "I had a little fright there in the '60s."

Yecheskeli: "And there's no Jewish blood in your family?"

Zundel: "Well, I'd be hard-pressed to admit to it."

Yecheskeli: "Why sure."

Zundel: "So now I ... "

Yecheskeli: "So, you don't ... you basically said don't expect any answer" (to the question of Jewish blood).

Zundel: "What I am saying ... "

Yecheskeli: " ... you are also in doubt?"

Zundel: "What I am saying is that there's a very good reason why I agree with one thing in Jewish law -- in that the mother is determining who is a Jew and who is not a Jew."

Yecheskeli: "Ah, I see, if it was the opposite way, you'd be ... "

Zundel: "No, no."

Yecheskeli: "You'd be in trouble?"

Zundel: "No, no, no ... because a mother knows with whom she slept with, right? (Laughs) And in that period, and so on -- seriously, quite seriously ... "

Yecheskeli: "Are you sure there's no Jewish blood in your family?"

Zundel: (In hushed voice) "No."

1. http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Toronto-Sun-Zundel-Jewish-2005.html

rodin
07-03-2010, 03:39 PM
Ernst Zundel's mother was Gertrude Mayer, daughter of Nagal and Isadore (Izzy) Mayer, a union organizer for the garment industry in the primarily Jewish Bavarian town of Augsburg.

Interesting. He could well be - if so why try to hide the fact? It does not weaken his case which is evidence not argument based. Thing is the evidence is really heavy on the side of the so-called deniers, no matter who is on which side of the argument. In the end the evidence should do the talking, and making bringing it up a crime speaks volumes

the moral man
07-03-2010, 03:48 PM
Dear rodin
kind regards
Well it seems that three of the most well known holocaust revisionists are Jewish and some might accuse them of being double agents as a result.
I think that to simply term Jewish revisionists as double agents is just a simplistic conclusion to something more complex.
It could be that these three Jews are at odds with their own Jewish community and hence they are using holocaust revision as a way to express that.
It is psychological as well, if they were somehow rejected by Jews, then they may identify with the enemy of established Jews.
I know of a quarter Jew who is an admirer of Hitler and the Nazi party, how is it possible?
Well its simple enough, such a person considers themselves to be of White stock because they have to identify with one or the other.
A quarter Jew or a half Jew is technically not a Jew, so they consider themselves White instead.
You are right that if such people have Jewish roots, they should just admit it rather than hide it in the way that they do.
yours thankfully
John