Nikola Tesla solar panel

[pezza19]

Heya guy i was reading a book on tesla or documents and found a patent for an energy gathering device that is basically conductive metal put high up like a sheet of aliminium that is laminated, and then hooked upto some capiciitors for a steady stream of energy,

it speaks about the ionspehre and gathering particles from the air. It says the higher up the metal is the more energy will gather.

I wonder if some very tall buildings have a spire to harness energy from the air.

[pi3141]

Hi Pezza, I've wondered if tall buildings with lightning conductors would be able to collect energy from the atmosphere. Slightly different idea in that the lightning strips are cutting through the magnetic field of the earth and are therefore similar to passing a wire through a magnetic field to induce emf in the wire. Surely if all the lightning strips were connected together they would produce useable energy.

On the 'pyramids as weather modification' thread recently posted the op links to a theory by Tesla that at the top of the pyramids you can measure 14,600 volts purely due to the earth magnetic field.

Arthur C Clarke suggested that if you suspended a wire in the atmosphere say 1 mile long it would collect enough energy to power New York city or something.

So yes, I think it is a valid suggestion and I am curently wondering why we are not utilising such methods for collecting energy hence my thread 'Is Free Energy A Shell Game' we are somehow distracted from all the other possible methods to generate power including this one.

[foobar]

Hi Pezza, I've wondered if tall buildings with lightning conductors would be able to collect energy from the atmosphere. Slightly different idea in that the lightning strips are cutting through the magnetic field of the earth and are therefore similar to passing a wire through a magnetic field to induce emf in the wire. Surely if all the lightning strips were connected together they would produce useable energy.

On the 'pyramids as weather modification' thread recently posted the op links to a theory by Tesla that at the top of the pyramids you can measure 14,600 volts purely due to the earth magnetic field.

Arthur C Clarke suggested that if you suspended a wire in the atmosphere say 1 mile long it would collect enough energy to power New York city or something.

So yes, I think it is a valid suggestion and I am curently wondering why we are not utilising such methods for collecting energy hence my thread 'Is Free Energy A Shell Game' we are somehow distracted from all the other possible methods to generate power including this one.

Conductors have a current induced when placed in a varying magnetic field. That's why you only get a current out of a dynamo when it's rotating.

A conductor affixed to a building will move imperceptibly slowly relative to the earth's magnetic field (as the building moves with the earth's rotation), so negligible amounts of energy will be collected.

However, the conductor is moving relative to the Earth (i.e. a non-geostationary orbit), then a noticeable current can be generated.

A cable trailing from the shuttle whilst it was moving fast relatives to the Earth's rotation once melted due to the current induced by the Earth's magnetic field, but only because the Earth's magnetic field was moving very fast relative to the cable.

[pezza19]

My electronics and phisics are really bad, so i'm just putting ideas out there, i've started to teach myself some phisics, got alot of books to get through, but I'm mostly interested in electricity, so i understand that the conductor will be moving slow therefore you wouldnt get the electrons moving much right?

I was more thinking of energy from the sun being caught in the ionsphere of earth and being filtered down from there.

so in essence we are conducting the particles from the air, much like when you step up the voltage on a tesla coil and light a lightbulb?.

[pezza19]

Also it makes you wonder why gold, copper and silver are quite expensive not so much copper but still pricey... and why did the egyptians suppsodly have a gold capstone on the pyramid, it only suggests there were using them as conductors or transmitters and such.

if it because of abundance? but if so why are we locking gold and silver away in vaults.?

[pi3141]

Conductors have a current induced when placed in a varying magnetic field. That's why you only get a current out of a dynamo when it's rotating.

Yes I know.

Your confusing me here. Arthur C Clarke suggested space elevators where a cable fixed to the earth extending out into space would allow elevators to rise up into space. Its is noted that such a cable would constantly generate power as it moves through the earths magnetic field.


One interesting feature of the system is that the Space Elevator cable would constantly be moving through Earth's electromagnetic field. If conductive material (or even superconductive material, if such is available in quantity when the elevator is constructed) were run through the center of the cable, it would constantly generate electricity through this movement. This could provide not only ample power to operate all the Space Elevator systems and stations, but also provide an electromagnetic field, on which transport cars could ride the elevator, through magnetic levitation.

Link - http://strangehorizons.com/2003/20030714/orbital_railroads.shtml

The space elevator cable would be fixed at the ground, much like a cable hanging down the side of a building.

Simply extending a cable in the air also generates energy as proven by Mythbusters (although they discounted it as it was tiny - but it was a short cable hung horizontally not vertically)

Does the earths magnetic field not vary at all?

Is the earth's magnetic field not itself in motion due to the molten core?

Why do many people believe such a cable would generate energy if you say it won't?

How did the Mythbuster experiment work as that cable was also stationary relative to earth?

Perhaps you will say negligible amounts of energy but has anyone measured it?

[h2pogo]

I seen a fair few people making these devices on youtube.
there is a view that there is more radiant energy about 9ft above the ground..
there are some people doing this with wire instead of plates.
i did hear you can use a copper rod in the ground and aluminum foil.
pretty simple to make..

Utilization of Radiant Energy 1901 Nikola Tesla,My test 8 - YouTube

[foobar]

Yes I know.

Your confusing me here. Arthur C Clarke suggested space elevators where a cable fixed to the earth extending out into space would allow elevators to rise up into space. Its is noted that such a cable would constantly generate power as it moves through the earths magnetic field.

See below. The currents would be extremely small because the variation is very small for an object stationary relative to the earth.


Simply extending a cable in the air also generates energy as proven by Mythbusters (although they discounted it as it was tiny - but it was a short cable hung horizontally not vertically)


Does the earths magnetic field not vary at all?

Yes, but not very much.


Is the earth's magnetic field not itself in motion due to the molten core?

Yes, but it's a slow and gradual process most of the time. Nothing like the rate of variation you get in a spinning dynamo, or a big cable moving very fast relative to the Earth (like the one that melted when it was dangling from the shuttle). That's why you can't get much energy from it with a stationary conductor, because the magnetic field itself is fairly stationary.


Why do many people believe such a cable would generate energy if you say it won't?

The scientists and electrical engineers who discuss these things are talking about extremely low currents.

A lot of laymen people don't understand that 'some' energy can mean 'not very much at all', and some don't understand that the amount of energy is heavily dependent on how fast the magnetic field is varying relative to the conductor.

We're not talking about the amounts of power needed to power a household appliance or a vehicle, it's many orders of magnitude too small.


How did the Mythbuster experiment work as that cable was also stationary relative to earth?

Because our atmosphere is full of very low power varying electromagnetic fields call 'radio signals' and slight variations in Earth's magnetic field. To get a really substantial amount of energy from Earth's magnetic field you'd need your cable to move fast through it.


Perhaps you will say negligible amounts of energy but has anyone measured it?

Yes, and it can be calculated directly by fairly straightforward physics. This is why you can't power your house from the signals from your local TV transmitter or just by sticking a cable up in the air, you'd try it and go 'see, just like I thought, there's electrical energy!, and then you'd look again at the meter reading and go 'oh.. but it will take me years to collect enough in a battery before I can power one of my bedside reading lamps for an hour'. You'd be better off just putting a big solar cell on your roof.

I should note that this is not what's being discussed when talking about Tesla's theories on tapping electrical energy from the ionosphere though.

[pi3141]

The scientists and electrical engineers who discuss these things are talking about extremely low currents.

Except Arthur C Clarke who talked about a huge amount of energy from such a device. I cannot find a link for his idea but I wonder if he meant a cable hanging in the air and not tethered to the ground.


Because our atmosphere is full of very low power varying electromagnetic fields call 'radio signals' and slight variations in Earth's magnetic field. To get a really substantial amount of energy from Earth's magnetic field you need your cable to move fast though.

Yep, just tried tofind a link and indeed that is what was discussed



I should note that this is not what's being discussed when talking about Tesla's theories on tapping electrical energy from the ionosphere though.

Agreed. You haven't commented on that - care too?

So do you agree that a suspended cable would generate power via the earths magnetic field albeit small amounts?

[foobar]

Yes I know.

Your confusing me here. Arthur C Clarke suggested space elevators where a cable fixed to the earth extending out into space would allow elevators to rise up into space. Its is noted that such a cable would constantly generate power as it moves through the earths magnetic field.

See below. The currents would be extremely small because the variation is very small for an object stationary relative to the earth.


Simply extending a cable in the air also generates energy as proven by Mythbusters (although they discounted it as it was tiny - but it was a short cable hung horizontally not vertically)


Does the earths magnetic field not vary at all?

Yes, but not very much.


Is the earth's magnetic field not itself in motion due to the molten core?

Yes, but it's a relatively slow and gradual process most of the time. Nothing like the rate of variation you get in a spinning dynamo, or a big cable moving very fast relative to the Earth (like the one that melted when it was dangling from the shuttle).


Why do many people believe such a cable would generate energy if you say it won't?

The scientists and electrical engineers who discuss these things are talking about extremely low currents.

A lot of laymen people don't understand that 'some' energy can mean 'not very much at all', and some don't understand that the amount of energy is heavily dependent on how fast the magnetic field is varying relative to the conductor.


How did the Mythbuster experiment work as that cable was also stationary relative to earth?

Because our atmosphere is full of very low power varying electromagnetic fields call 'radio signals' and slight variations in Earth's magnetic field. To get a really substantial amount of energy from Earth's magnetic field you need your cable to move fast though.


Perhaps you will say negligible amounts of energy but has anyone measured it?

Yes, and it can be calculated directly by fairly straightforward physics.

I should note that this is not what's being discussed when talking about Tesla's theories on tapping electrical energy from the ionosphere though.

[pi3141]

I seen a fair few people making these devices on youtube.
there is a view that there is more radiant energy about 9ft above the ground..
there are some people doing this with wire instead of plates.
i did hear you can use a copper rod in the ground and aluminum foil.
pretty simple to make..

Thanks for the link. This seems to be another valid renewable energy system.

As Tesla stated - 'it won't be long before man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature' or something to that effect. If we utilised all the possible methods we would surely have free (zero cost) energy and a clean environment.

[foobar]

Except Arthur C Clarke who talked about a huge amount of energy from such a device. I cannot find a link for his idea but I wonder if he meant a cable hanging in the air and not tethered to the ground.

He was referring to a space elevator tethered to the ground, but the amounts of electrical energy wouldn't be huge.



Agreed. You haven't commented on that - care too?

Tesla planned to distribute energy wirelessly that had been generated on Earth via conventional means. The Schumann resonance between earth and the ionosphere isn't very powerful, it's magnetic component is orders of magnitude smaller than the magnetic field generated by the currents in the Earth's core.


So do you agree that a suspended cable would generate power via the earths magnetic field albeit small amounts?

Yes, but the amounts would be very small. The same amount of space taken up with a solar cell would generate far more power even in a country that didn't have a very sunny climate, like the UK.

[pi3141]

However, the conductor is moving relative to the Earth (i.e. a non-geostationary orbit), then a noticeable current can be generated.


If the conductor was moving relative to the earth then it would be geo-stationary orbit. If the conductor was moving faster or slower than the earth then it would be non geo-stationary.

[foobar]

If the conductor was moving relative to the earth then it would be geo-stationary orbit. If the conductor was moving faster or slower than the earth then it would be non geo-stationary.

In a geostationary orbit you don't move relative to the Earth's rotation. i.e. in a geostationary orbit you have the same spot on the earth beneath you all the time.

Geostationary orbit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The earth's magnetic field doesn't vary relative to you (much) when you do this.

[pi3141]

In a geostationary orbit you don't move relative to the Earth's rotation. i.e. in a geostationary orbit you have the same spot on the earth beneath you all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit

The earth's magnetic field doesn't vary relative to you (much) when you do this.

Yes, just as I stated. A piece of wire extended from the ground up into the atmosphere would always move relative to the Earth as it is fixd to it.

You stated -


However, the conductor is moving relative to the Earth (i.e. a non-geostationary orbit), then a noticeable current can be generated.

This is a confusing way to describe your point. It would make more sense to say - a conductor moving faster or slower relative to the Earth is in Non Geo stationary orbit. I work in satellite teleports so I'm fully aware of geo stationary and non geo stationary orbits.

[pi3141]

However, the conductor is moving relative to the Earth (i.e. a non-geostationary orbit), then a noticeable current can be generated.


Relative to idiom - Correspondent or proportionate

Link - http://www.yourdictionary.com/idioms/relative-to



Correspondent adjective - similar or analogous

Link - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/correspondent


Hence, if the conductor was moving relative or proportionate to the earth the natural assumption is that it is geostationary, if the conductor or satellite was moving non-relative to the earth the assumption is it would not be geostationary.